1 00:00:01,000 --> 00:00:03,800 Speaker 1: Thanks for talking to me about this. Yeah, totally. 2 00:00:03,920 --> 00:00:06,960 Speaker 2: I know it's vulnerable, it is, but it's I feel 3 00:00:07,000 --> 00:00:10,400 Speaker 2: very comfortable. I'm on a mission to make sure everyone's 4 00:00:10,440 --> 00:00:14,040 Speaker 2: having good sex, and that starts by talking about it. 5 00:00:16,640 --> 00:00:19,239 Speaker 3: I had all these feelings and stuff, but I'd never 6 00:00:20,079 --> 00:00:22,319 Speaker 3: talked about them or anything, so I didn't really know. 7 00:00:22,239 --> 00:00:25,079 Speaker 1: What to do with basically sex in general. 8 00:00:25,400 --> 00:00:27,840 Speaker 2: And I especially love talking about it with the friends 9 00:00:27,840 --> 00:00:31,760 Speaker 2: I grew up with who had similar religious experiences as me. 10 00:00:32,640 --> 00:00:36,080 Speaker 2: Some of them are married now, and even years into 11 00:00:36,120 --> 00:00:40,880 Speaker 2: their marriages, they're still unpacking all of their shame around sex. 12 00:00:41,479 --> 00:00:44,280 Speaker 3: Growing up, it wasn't an open conversation, so you're just 13 00:00:44,320 --> 00:00:46,280 Speaker 3: like supposed to figure it out on your own. 14 00:00:47,040 --> 00:00:50,840 Speaker 1: And a lot of that is anything. 15 00:00:50,560 --> 00:00:52,479 Speaker 3: In the world where you're just supposed to figure it 16 00:00:52,479 --> 00:00:54,520 Speaker 3: out on your own, like it's never going to end well. 17 00:00:54,760 --> 00:00:56,040 Speaker 1: I feel like that's. 18 00:00:55,800 --> 00:01:00,000 Speaker 3: Why sex is so so much gray area, so much 19 00:01:00,080 --> 00:01:03,120 Speaker 3: us understood, it's so whatever, because it's like a language 20 00:01:03,120 --> 00:01:04,240 Speaker 3: where you're never taught. 21 00:01:04,880 --> 00:01:06,959 Speaker 1: You're doing all these things wrong or right, and you 22 00:01:06,959 --> 00:01:10,199 Speaker 1: have no idea, and so you don't know what's good, 23 00:01:10,280 --> 00:01:11,560 Speaker 1: what's bad, what's anything. 24 00:01:12,160 --> 00:01:14,560 Speaker 2: You don't have to figure out sex all on your own, 25 00:01:14,959 --> 00:01:28,720 Speaker 2: because this week we have someone who can help. I'm 26 00:01:28,760 --> 00:01:32,520 Speaker 2: Hopewitdard and welcome to Boysover, a space where we're learning 27 00:01:32,640 --> 00:01:36,720 Speaker 2: and unlearning all the myths we're taught about love and relationships. 28 00:01:47,560 --> 00:01:50,080 Speaker 2: What is good sex and how do we have it? 29 00:01:50,760 --> 00:01:53,440 Speaker 2: I'm sure that's a question everyone is dying to know. 30 00:01:54,120 --> 00:01:57,960 Speaker 2: The truth is there's not just one answer. Hot, fun, 31 00:01:58,040 --> 00:02:01,280 Speaker 2: and pleasurable sex is different depending on who you are, 32 00:02:01,720 --> 00:02:05,560 Speaker 2: and it takes time and exploration to figure out what 33 00:02:05,720 --> 00:02:10,200 Speaker 2: all those things mean to you. Enter doctor Candace Nicole 34 00:02:10,440 --> 00:02:14,360 Speaker 2: Hargin's author of the book Good Sex Stories, Science and 35 00:02:14,440 --> 00:02:19,480 Speaker 2: Strategies for Sexual Liberation. That term sexual liberation is what 36 00:02:19,720 --> 00:02:23,920 Speaker 2: most interested me about her work, because I'm desperate to 37 00:02:24,000 --> 00:02:27,120 Speaker 2: be freed of all the lies I've been taught about sex, 38 00:02:27,680 --> 00:02:30,840 Speaker 2: like that it's dangerous and it should be secretive or shameful. 39 00:02:31,440 --> 00:02:33,799 Speaker 2: If you were brought up believing these things too, this 40 00:02:33,919 --> 00:02:37,840 Speaker 2: conversation is for you, or even if you didn't, I'm 41 00:02:37,880 --> 00:02:40,720 Speaker 2: sure there's still a lot to learn and unlearn on 42 00:02:40,800 --> 00:02:48,239 Speaker 2: the road to having great sex. Hi, doctor Candace, how 43 00:02:48,280 --> 00:02:48,919 Speaker 2: are you today? 44 00:02:49,200 --> 00:02:50,480 Speaker 4: I'm doing alrighty. How are you? 45 00:02:50,880 --> 00:02:51,360 Speaker 1: I'm good? 46 00:02:51,440 --> 00:02:54,640 Speaker 2: I'm excited about this for like personal reasons, you know, 47 00:02:54,760 --> 00:02:58,560 Speaker 2: for the show, but also just because like my relationship 48 00:02:58,600 --> 00:03:01,360 Speaker 2: to sex is always like I'm actively working on it. 49 00:03:01,440 --> 00:03:05,240 Speaker 2: You know, your book is called Good Sex. Can you 50 00:03:05,280 --> 00:03:07,640 Speaker 2: just walk everyone through sort of the origin story of 51 00:03:07,760 --> 00:03:11,079 Speaker 2: like how you got introduced to this world of research 52 00:03:11,120 --> 00:03:13,280 Speaker 2: and kind of your why behind it all? 53 00:03:13,919 --> 00:03:16,840 Speaker 4: Okay, so the origin story of the framing of good 54 00:03:16,919 --> 00:03:20,480 Speaker 4: sex was too bold one. Most of the sex research 55 00:03:20,560 --> 00:03:25,400 Speaker 4: out there is about STIs HIV and I'CYM, and I 56 00:03:25,520 --> 00:03:27,640 Speaker 4: was like, these aren't even the reasons people are for 57 00:03:27,720 --> 00:03:31,040 Speaker 4: real having sex, Like, what is it that we keep 58 00:03:31,080 --> 00:03:33,560 Speaker 4: focusing on this now? Of course, later in my career 59 00:03:33,639 --> 00:03:36,360 Speaker 4: I learned that, you know, federal funders are like, we 60 00:03:36,440 --> 00:03:38,920 Speaker 4: want to focus on diseases, and so we'll give you 61 00:03:38,960 --> 00:03:42,880 Speaker 4: money to study diseases as opposed to the pleasurable aspects 62 00:03:42,880 --> 00:03:45,880 Speaker 4: of sex or the positive aspects of sex. And so 63 00:03:46,920 --> 00:03:49,320 Speaker 4: when I decided to focus on good sex or a 64 00:03:49,320 --> 00:03:52,119 Speaker 4: sex positive frame, wanted. I wanted to know about desire 65 00:03:52,160 --> 00:03:56,240 Speaker 4: and arousal and orgasm and pleasure and all of these 66 00:03:56,480 --> 00:04:00,600 Speaker 4: things that my research team and I asked people about. 67 00:04:00,840 --> 00:04:03,560 Speaker 2: You talk about how a lot of sex research gets 68 00:04:03,560 --> 00:04:08,000 Speaker 2: the perspective from mostly like white research participants, but in 69 00:04:08,080 --> 00:04:13,160 Speaker 2: your research you focus mainly on black research participants. Can 70 00:04:13,200 --> 00:04:16,560 Speaker 2: you talk about your why of that and just what 71 00:04:16,640 --> 00:04:17,359 Speaker 2: that was like. 72 00:04:17,760 --> 00:04:20,440 Speaker 4: It's a delight, Yeah, that's what it's like. I'll start 73 00:04:20,480 --> 00:04:23,599 Speaker 4: with what it's like. I don't know if you've ever 74 00:04:23,680 --> 00:04:27,680 Speaker 4: heard black people tell a story about set I have. 75 00:04:27,800 --> 00:04:31,960 Speaker 4: It's the best. It's the best, so it's fun to do. 76 00:04:32,200 --> 00:04:35,359 Speaker 4: I'll start with just the joyful reasons why. But also, 77 00:04:35,600 --> 00:04:39,920 Speaker 4: black people have historically been used as the sex negative benchmark. 78 00:04:40,240 --> 00:04:42,720 Speaker 4: So when I talked about like the sti's, HIV and 79 00:04:42,800 --> 00:04:46,039 Speaker 4: unfriended pregnancy, most of the studies are like, black people 80 00:04:46,080 --> 00:04:48,680 Speaker 4: are at a deficit in all of these areas. But 81 00:04:48,720 --> 00:04:52,320 Speaker 4: when it comes to good sex, there's so many beautiful 82 00:04:52,400 --> 00:04:56,400 Speaker 4: things in our culture that we haven't amplified enough. So 83 00:04:56,839 --> 00:04:59,080 Speaker 4: I use that as my frame because I feel like 84 00:04:59,120 --> 00:05:01,080 Speaker 4: there's a lot to be learned from the margin. So 85 00:05:01,200 --> 00:05:04,200 Speaker 4: not just black people, but queer people, people with disabilities, 86 00:05:04,279 --> 00:05:07,440 Speaker 4: people around age, you know, ages that are not like 87 00:05:07,480 --> 00:05:10,320 Speaker 4: in that norm. All of that is where I find 88 00:05:10,440 --> 00:05:12,880 Speaker 4: some of the best information about good sex. 89 00:05:13,320 --> 00:05:16,120 Speaker 2: What do you think was like your most surprising takeaway 90 00:05:16,400 --> 00:05:18,040 Speaker 2: from your research. 91 00:05:18,880 --> 00:05:21,560 Speaker 4: The thing that I think piques my curiosity right now 92 00:05:21,680 --> 00:05:25,919 Speaker 4: is people's worst sexual experiences. You learn a lot about 93 00:05:25,960 --> 00:05:29,279 Speaker 4: good sex based on how people describe their worst sex 94 00:05:29,839 --> 00:05:35,680 Speaker 4: and hearing how people overcame that experience, hearing how they 95 00:05:35,760 --> 00:05:39,400 Speaker 4: talked back to that experience, how they narrated the levity 96 00:05:39,440 --> 00:05:42,839 Speaker 4: they find and talking about the experience. Like, for me, 97 00:05:43,040 --> 00:05:45,400 Speaker 4: that's been the fun part, the delightful part. 98 00:05:46,040 --> 00:05:48,560 Speaker 2: Something I come across with so many women is like 99 00:05:48,680 --> 00:05:53,040 Speaker 2: they've had a negative sexual experience and they don't really 100 00:05:53,120 --> 00:05:57,880 Speaker 2: know how to move forward, how to not let it 101 00:05:57,920 --> 00:06:02,040 Speaker 2: sort of like seep into every other experience, and that 102 00:06:02,360 --> 00:06:06,479 Speaker 2: process of healing is like something I'm still trying to 103 00:06:06,480 --> 00:06:07,200 Speaker 2: figure out. 104 00:06:07,920 --> 00:06:10,640 Speaker 4: Right, So after a negative experience, whop are like, I'm 105 00:06:10,680 --> 00:06:15,400 Speaker 4: never doing that again because walls go up, defenses go up, 106 00:06:16,040 --> 00:06:19,920 Speaker 4: and then sometimes you need a little bit of waldof 107 00:06:19,960 --> 00:06:22,680 Speaker 4: time to figure out like what you like and what 108 00:06:22,720 --> 00:06:26,919 Speaker 4: you don't like, and then you make your boundaries more 109 00:06:27,560 --> 00:06:31,719 Speaker 4: perm where it's like I can and want to let 110 00:06:31,720 --> 00:06:36,560 Speaker 4: people in again, figure sex out again on my own terms, 111 00:06:36,839 --> 00:06:40,919 Speaker 4: and I feel certain enough about who I am, what 112 00:06:41,040 --> 00:06:43,520 Speaker 4: I want, what I want to offer, what I want 113 00:06:43,520 --> 00:06:47,000 Speaker 4: to give that I can speak to that without it 114 00:06:47,080 --> 00:06:49,719 Speaker 4: feeling like threatening totally. 115 00:06:50,440 --> 00:06:53,560 Speaker 2: I want to talk about sexual liberation. In your book, 116 00:06:53,600 --> 00:06:58,599 Speaker 2: you talk about intimate justice and erotic equity. Can you 117 00:06:58,640 --> 00:07:00,320 Speaker 2: break down those terms for me? 118 00:07:00,880 --> 00:07:04,600 Speaker 4: Yeah, so I'll start with sexual liberation. And at the 119 00:07:04,600 --> 00:07:09,000 Speaker 4: core of it, it is authentic sexual self making in 120 00:07:09,080 --> 00:07:13,440 Speaker 4: a world that tries to constrict you from becoming an 121 00:07:13,480 --> 00:07:18,120 Speaker 4: authentic human in any way. So it's like, I know 122 00:07:18,200 --> 00:07:20,080 Speaker 4: a lot of the people that I work with and 123 00:07:20,120 --> 00:07:22,800 Speaker 4: self included, have done a lot in the realm of 124 00:07:22,880 --> 00:07:29,280 Speaker 4: social justice, only to come home to the injustice to 125 00:07:29,400 --> 00:07:33,600 Speaker 4: a partner who doesn't see you as worthy, who doesn't 126 00:07:34,240 --> 00:07:38,840 Speaker 4: have reverence for pleasure, enjoy, and generosity sexually in your 127 00:07:38,880 --> 00:07:42,520 Speaker 4: own life. And intimate justice is like, this is a space. 128 00:07:42,840 --> 00:07:45,720 Speaker 4: Sex is a space where liberation needs to be a 129 00:07:45,760 --> 00:07:48,600 Speaker 4: focus to. It's one of the places where you have 130 00:07:48,640 --> 00:07:52,000 Speaker 4: the most power to have immediate change. 131 00:07:52,560 --> 00:07:56,320 Speaker 2: I want to talk to you about masturbation. There's so 132 00:07:56,600 --> 00:08:00,960 Speaker 2: much to like uncover there and untangle that, and you 133 00:08:01,360 --> 00:08:05,880 Speaker 2: let us study of one thousand people who had volvas right, 134 00:08:06,000 --> 00:08:08,520 Speaker 2: So this is like your terminology. So I'm assuming it's 135 00:08:08,560 --> 00:08:12,080 Speaker 2: people of all different sort of gender expression gender identity, 136 00:08:12,640 --> 00:08:17,960 Speaker 2: which again creates for a more well rounded perspective. What 137 00:08:18,040 --> 00:08:21,200 Speaker 2: does a study on self pleasure look like? And what 138 00:08:21,320 --> 00:08:24,000 Speaker 2: was another sort of surprising takeaway for you? 139 00:08:24,520 --> 00:08:27,640 Speaker 4: Okay, so this was the Magic Wand and Wellness Study. 140 00:08:28,000 --> 00:08:33,160 Speaker 4: So me and sex edw with dB and my graduate assistant, 141 00:08:33,280 --> 00:08:37,760 Speaker 4: Casey V. Hill, got together with the people from Magic wand. 142 00:08:38,720 --> 00:08:44,640 Speaker 4: Everybody got a magic wand everybody was invited to abstain 143 00:08:44,880 --> 00:08:48,440 Speaker 4: for a week and then use the magic Wand for 144 00:08:48,480 --> 00:08:50,560 Speaker 4: a week and then have sex as usual for a week. 145 00:08:51,520 --> 00:08:57,360 Speaker 4: What we learned is that having sex solo sex or 146 00:08:57,480 --> 00:09:01,079 Speaker 4: partnered with the magic wand was when people felt closest 147 00:09:01,120 --> 00:09:04,559 Speaker 4: to who they were partnered with, like, so that partner 148 00:09:04,640 --> 00:09:09,480 Speaker 4: connection increased during that time. And I think it dispels 149 00:09:09,559 --> 00:09:13,880 Speaker 4: this myth that like solo sex or masturbation or using 150 00:09:13,920 --> 00:09:16,680 Speaker 4: a sex toy, even when you're having partnered sex, is 151 00:09:16,679 --> 00:09:19,280 Speaker 4: in competition with your partner. So a lot of people 152 00:09:19,360 --> 00:09:24,640 Speaker 4: have a rank order of like partnered sex way up here, 153 00:09:24,800 --> 00:09:27,720 Speaker 4: Solo sex is what you settle for when you don't 154 00:09:27,800 --> 00:09:31,160 Speaker 4: have a partner, and it's like, no, solo sex is great. 155 00:09:31,679 --> 00:09:35,400 Speaker 2: So I sometimes worry about how much better solo sex 156 00:09:35,520 --> 00:09:36,040 Speaker 2: is for me. 157 00:09:37,120 --> 00:09:40,120 Speaker 4: Do you know what I mean? You are not alone? 158 00:09:40,200 --> 00:09:41,280 Speaker 4: I know, not alone? 159 00:09:41,320 --> 00:09:44,599 Speaker 2: Okay, tell me more about or like, tell us the listeners. 160 00:09:45,160 --> 00:09:47,640 Speaker 2: What did you uncover in that study where you were like, 161 00:09:47,679 --> 00:09:49,760 Speaker 2: oh shit, you. 162 00:09:49,679 --> 00:09:50,280 Speaker 1: Know what I mean? 163 00:09:50,720 --> 00:09:52,920 Speaker 4: No, I think that it wasn't even in that study. 164 00:09:52,960 --> 00:09:57,520 Speaker 4: I knew that just based on other research that most people, 165 00:09:58,040 --> 00:10:00,719 Speaker 4: most women, and most people with bulbas and in particular, 166 00:10:01,200 --> 00:10:05,760 Speaker 4: have more orgasmic sex when they're alone. It's easier for 167 00:10:05,840 --> 00:10:09,520 Speaker 4: them to, you know, figure out how to come, come 168 00:10:09,559 --> 00:10:12,720 Speaker 4: when they want to come. There are less things going 169 00:10:12,760 --> 00:10:17,400 Speaker 4: on in your brain sometimes where you're with yourself, and 170 00:10:18,160 --> 00:10:20,920 Speaker 4: you know, it's an opportunity to learn, like what you 171 00:10:21,000 --> 00:10:23,640 Speaker 4: like and what you don't like. So no, I think 172 00:10:23,720 --> 00:10:26,080 Speaker 4: that that wasn't. That wouldn't at all be surprising to 173 00:10:26,160 --> 00:10:29,560 Speaker 4: me when a person enjoys solo sex more, especially since 174 00:10:29,600 --> 00:10:32,600 Speaker 4: a lot of people are still figuring out their sexual 175 00:10:32,600 --> 00:10:33,760 Speaker 4: skill level. 176 00:10:34,200 --> 00:10:37,040 Speaker 2: I have a very good friend, she's been married for 177 00:10:37,040 --> 00:10:38,640 Speaker 2: a couple of years now, and she had never used 178 00:10:38,640 --> 00:10:39,280 Speaker 2: a vibrator. 179 00:10:40,360 --> 00:10:42,720 Speaker 1: I was like, you got to do this. 180 00:10:42,880 --> 00:10:46,240 Speaker 2: You know, And I sent her a link for one, 181 00:10:46,679 --> 00:10:50,280 Speaker 2: and it was like a small not intimidating one. And 182 00:10:50,320 --> 00:10:52,280 Speaker 2: I was telling a friend of mine about this story, 183 00:10:52,320 --> 00:10:57,199 Speaker 2: and it was a man, and he immediately got defensive, 184 00:10:57,480 --> 00:11:01,280 Speaker 2: being like, well, if she enjoys the vibe vibrator too much, 185 00:11:02,040 --> 00:11:03,400 Speaker 2: she won't want to have sex. 186 00:11:03,160 --> 00:11:07,080 Speaker 1: With her husband. That was such a surprising take to me. 187 00:11:07,679 --> 00:11:11,360 Speaker 4: Is that surprising to you at all? No, it's common. 188 00:11:11,559 --> 00:11:17,040 Speaker 4: It's unfortunate because when men see themselves as the only 189 00:11:17,240 --> 00:11:22,640 Speaker 4: possible vehicle for a woman's pleasure one, that's a lot 190 00:11:22,679 --> 00:11:26,760 Speaker 4: of pressure on them for them to live up to two. 191 00:11:27,440 --> 00:11:32,840 Speaker 4: Putting in competition a toy, an inanimate object that is 192 00:11:32,920 --> 00:11:38,080 Speaker 4: designed exclusively for her pleasure with a whole human being 193 00:11:38,600 --> 00:11:41,160 Speaker 4: who is designed for so many other things that are 194 00:11:41,600 --> 00:11:46,640 Speaker 4: valuable and amazing, Like the vibrator is your mate, y'all 195 00:11:46,679 --> 00:11:49,280 Speaker 4: are about to do this thing together, right, They're seeing 196 00:11:49,320 --> 00:11:51,800 Speaker 4: it as a competitor. It's going to be hard on you. 197 00:11:52,160 --> 00:11:54,760 Speaker 4: It's going to be hard on you as the partner 198 00:11:55,440 --> 00:11:58,840 Speaker 4: because it's you're not exclusively designed for her pleasure. 199 00:12:16,480 --> 00:12:19,160 Speaker 2: Okay, doctor Candice, we have something a little different for 200 00:12:19,200 --> 00:12:21,880 Speaker 2: you now. We ask listeners to send in questions they 201 00:12:21,880 --> 00:12:24,160 Speaker 2: had about their sex lives, and we want you to 202 00:12:24,200 --> 00:12:25,160 Speaker 2: give them some advice. 203 00:12:25,800 --> 00:12:26,840 Speaker 1: Here's the first question. 204 00:12:27,800 --> 00:12:31,640 Speaker 5: Hi Hope, Hi boy sober. I am calling in with 205 00:12:31,679 --> 00:12:36,319 Speaker 5: a question about intimacy. So I've noticed that sex by 206 00:12:36,320 --> 00:12:39,720 Speaker 5: myself has always felt better than when I'm having sex 207 00:12:39,760 --> 00:12:43,720 Speaker 5: with my partner. I'm too scared to tell them because 208 00:12:43,760 --> 00:12:47,400 Speaker 5: I don't want to make them insecure, and honestly, I'm 209 00:12:47,440 --> 00:12:50,120 Speaker 5: just really annoyed with having to tell them what I 210 00:12:50,160 --> 00:12:52,920 Speaker 5: want all the time, having to explain myself. What would 211 00:12:52,960 --> 00:12:53,559 Speaker 5: be your advice? 212 00:12:54,360 --> 00:12:59,720 Speaker 4: Pretty coming for there to be three levels of threat 213 00:12:59,800 --> 00:13:02,680 Speaker 4: or fear people experience when it comes to sexual communication. 214 00:13:02,920 --> 00:13:05,800 Speaker 4: So there's a self threat, which is like you don't 215 00:13:05,840 --> 00:13:10,679 Speaker 4: want to seem incompetent or inexperience. There's the partner threat, 216 00:13:10,720 --> 00:13:13,160 Speaker 4: which is like I don't want to hurt my partner's feelings. 217 00:13:13,240 --> 00:13:15,680 Speaker 4: I know their ego is tied up in this. Or 218 00:13:15,720 --> 00:13:18,920 Speaker 4: there's relationship threat, which is like I shouldn't have to 219 00:13:19,000 --> 00:13:22,600 Speaker 4: tell a person things like the relationship isn't probably good 220 00:13:22,679 --> 00:13:25,760 Speaker 4: if I have to say this, And so it sounds 221 00:13:25,760 --> 00:13:29,520 Speaker 4: like that person is experiencing partner level threat. It makes 222 00:13:29,520 --> 00:13:32,840 Speaker 4: sense to have that fear if you've experienced telling the 223 00:13:32,920 --> 00:13:36,200 Speaker 4: truth and being sanctioned for it before you are worthy 224 00:13:36,240 --> 00:13:39,040 Speaker 4: of an honest conversation, and you don't have to say 225 00:13:39,040 --> 00:13:42,400 Speaker 4: it mean just because you need to say what you mean, right, 226 00:13:42,679 --> 00:13:45,040 Speaker 4: I think it's okay to have a normal, honest conversation 227 00:13:45,080 --> 00:13:47,640 Speaker 4: about it. And this is the part people hate, But 228 00:13:47,720 --> 00:13:51,720 Speaker 4: I'm a whole ass psychologist. The amount of times it 229 00:13:51,800 --> 00:13:55,040 Speaker 4: takes people to hear something before they change their behavior 230 00:13:56,240 --> 00:13:59,240 Speaker 4: is extensive. So it does take time and you will 231 00:13:59,280 --> 00:14:01,680 Speaker 4: have to repeat your self. And it's not that they're 232 00:14:01,720 --> 00:14:04,559 Speaker 4: being childish. It really does take human beings a long 233 00:14:04,679 --> 00:14:07,400 Speaker 4: time to change their behavior. Damn. I love that. 234 00:14:07,440 --> 00:14:08,920 Speaker 2: It's like, give people a little bit of grace. 235 00:14:10,360 --> 00:14:12,240 Speaker 4: Now, if you don't like them, let them go. But 236 00:14:12,320 --> 00:14:16,280 Speaker 4: if you like them, if. 237 00:14:16,120 --> 00:14:20,280 Speaker 2: The juice like the squeeze, you know, release it. But 238 00:14:20,800 --> 00:14:23,800 Speaker 2: if yeah, please, Okay, I'm gonna go to the next one. 239 00:14:24,560 --> 00:14:30,200 Speaker 6: So my partner masturbates so all the time, and honestly, 240 00:14:30,360 --> 00:14:35,280 Speaker 6: it makes me pretty angry. I feel like it's cheating 241 00:14:35,440 --> 00:14:40,480 Speaker 6: in a way, especially when he's watching porn. I don't 242 00:14:40,520 --> 00:14:44,440 Speaker 6: personally master debate or watch porn, so I just don't 243 00:14:44,480 --> 00:14:46,440 Speaker 6: understand why he's doing it so. 244 00:14:46,520 --> 00:14:49,880 Speaker 1: Much all the time. So I'm wondering am. 245 00:14:50,160 --> 00:14:54,080 Speaker 6: I wrong to feel that way or is there just 246 00:14:54,120 --> 00:14:55,600 Speaker 6: something that I'm not seeing? 247 00:14:56,080 --> 00:14:58,240 Speaker 4: So they do need to have a conversation about what 248 00:14:58,360 --> 00:15:02,200 Speaker 4: cheating means to both of them. And we can't hold 249 00:15:02,280 --> 00:15:05,320 Speaker 4: our standard or our preference for how we treat our 250 00:15:05,320 --> 00:15:09,120 Speaker 4: solo sex life for someone else, even if we're in 251 00:15:09,200 --> 00:15:12,480 Speaker 4: relationship with them. So it may be that you're not 252 00:15:12,560 --> 00:15:16,160 Speaker 4: getting the sexual attention you want. That is a necessary conversation, like, hey, 253 00:15:16,320 --> 00:15:18,200 Speaker 4: I feel like your masturbation is getting in the way 254 00:15:18,320 --> 00:15:22,200 Speaker 4: of us having sex. That is fair game, but for 255 00:15:22,320 --> 00:15:25,520 Speaker 4: them to enjoy a solo sex practice, it is not 256 00:15:25,840 --> 00:15:31,840 Speaker 4: necessarily a bad thing. And maybe having a conversation about 257 00:15:31,880 --> 00:15:34,720 Speaker 4: it where you share, like where those feelings come from 258 00:15:34,720 --> 00:15:38,760 Speaker 4: for you, whether you're shaming your partner, whether you have 259 00:15:38,840 --> 00:15:42,160 Speaker 4: some ideas about solo sex that are based innth. You 260 00:15:42,200 --> 00:15:45,280 Speaker 4: should have those conversations, but be reflective about yourself because 261 00:15:45,320 --> 00:15:48,760 Speaker 4: it sounds a little bit judging and a little bit shamey, 262 00:15:49,240 --> 00:15:53,000 Speaker 4: and we don't want to yet that easier Now, maybe 263 00:15:53,040 --> 00:15:56,000 Speaker 4: you can try to like some of the things that 264 00:15:56,040 --> 00:16:00,600 Speaker 4: they like. Maybe you like audio erotica instead of visual porn. 265 00:16:01,280 --> 00:16:03,920 Speaker 4: Explore some of those options, just for yourself to see 266 00:16:04,040 --> 00:16:07,400 Speaker 4: what might pique your interest if that's something that you 267 00:16:07,440 --> 00:16:10,400 Speaker 4: would like to try before you kind of like try 268 00:16:10,400 --> 00:16:13,760 Speaker 4: to stop somebody else's sexual behavior that's consensual and not 269 00:16:13,840 --> 00:16:14,560 Speaker 4: harmful to them. 270 00:16:15,280 --> 00:16:21,440 Speaker 2: I love just the language solo sexual practice because that 271 00:16:21,840 --> 00:16:25,400 Speaker 2: gives the whole idea and the whole world of it 272 00:16:25,480 --> 00:16:29,120 Speaker 2: so much legitimacy, where I feel like so many especially 273 00:16:29,160 --> 00:16:33,920 Speaker 2: women like don't feel like that is a necessary practice 274 00:16:33,960 --> 00:16:36,040 Speaker 2: for them. I don't see it as like a practice. 275 00:16:37,120 --> 00:16:41,280 Speaker 2: I know for me that my time being celibate and 276 00:16:41,400 --> 00:16:45,280 Speaker 2: sort of practicing abstinence, like it was a time where 277 00:16:45,320 --> 00:16:48,720 Speaker 2: like exploring a solo sexual practice taught me so much 278 00:16:48,760 --> 00:16:49,880 Speaker 2: about what I want. 279 00:16:50,640 --> 00:16:55,400 Speaker 1: It really helped me like uncover how to have good sex. 280 00:16:55,640 --> 00:16:58,440 Speaker 4: If that makes sense, Yeah, it absolutely does. 281 00:16:59,640 --> 00:17:03,440 Speaker 1: Okay, Hey, our next one, Hi voice sober hope. 282 00:17:03,600 --> 00:17:05,600 Speaker 7: I feel like this might be one that you relate 283 00:17:05,680 --> 00:17:09,160 Speaker 7: to because I'm having an issue lately, Like I consider 284 00:17:09,160 --> 00:17:13,000 Speaker 7: myself a feminist and someone who's like very sexually liberated. 285 00:17:13,080 --> 00:17:15,959 Speaker 7: I'm like, you know, we should all be having as 286 00:17:16,040 --> 00:17:18,119 Speaker 7: much sex as we want, don't have to put too 287 00:17:18,200 --> 00:17:22,000 Speaker 7: much meeting behind it, whatever, We're all having fun. But lately, 288 00:17:22,560 --> 00:17:24,560 Speaker 7: the sex that I'm having even when I try not 289 00:17:24,600 --> 00:17:27,359 Speaker 7: to attach too much emotion onto it leaves me like 290 00:17:27,960 --> 00:17:32,160 Speaker 7: really emotionally drained, or I realize I'm like having sex 291 00:17:32,200 --> 00:17:35,960 Speaker 7: that I don't actually want to have. So I guess 292 00:17:35,960 --> 00:17:38,080 Speaker 7: what I'm asking is how do I have sex that 293 00:17:38,840 --> 00:17:42,600 Speaker 7: I know won't leave me feeling like confused or honestly 294 00:17:42,840 --> 00:17:44,640 Speaker 7: just give me an emotional hangover. 295 00:17:45,920 --> 00:17:48,560 Speaker 4: That goes back to the question, like the topic we were 296 00:17:48,520 --> 00:17:51,240 Speaker 4: talking about earlier, where a person is like loud and 297 00:17:51,280 --> 00:17:55,639 Speaker 4: proud with their values outside and then they get to 298 00:17:55,800 --> 00:17:59,760 Speaker 4: a sexual space and they're not getting what they're worthy of. 299 00:18:00,640 --> 00:18:03,120 Speaker 4: I think one of the first steps in that, because 300 00:18:03,119 --> 00:18:05,960 Speaker 4: it's a long process, the first steps is to stop 301 00:18:06,000 --> 00:18:08,920 Speaker 4: when you don't want to do something anymore, to say, hey, 302 00:18:09,000 --> 00:18:12,520 Speaker 4: I need a pause or give me a second that 303 00:18:12,640 --> 00:18:15,160 Speaker 4: can give you a moment to breathe, and then process 304 00:18:15,320 --> 00:18:17,480 Speaker 4: like I'm not just going to power through this because 305 00:18:17,560 --> 00:18:19,760 Speaker 4: I want this guy to get an orgasm and then 306 00:18:19,800 --> 00:18:22,640 Speaker 4: be done. Do not get it over with and give 307 00:18:22,680 --> 00:18:25,760 Speaker 4: yourself a moment to decide, Okay, is this painful? Is 308 00:18:25,800 --> 00:18:29,879 Speaker 4: this emotionally justsregulating? Is this, you know, just uncomfortable for 309 00:18:29,920 --> 00:18:33,239 Speaker 4: any number of reasons Before you go back into it. 310 00:18:33,280 --> 00:18:35,560 Speaker 4: Maybe you just need to shift positions. It could be 311 00:18:35,560 --> 00:18:38,119 Speaker 4: something as simple as that, maybe you don't even like 312 00:18:38,200 --> 00:18:41,879 Speaker 4: that person. You're feeling inadequate and you're hoping that they 313 00:18:41,880 --> 00:18:45,040 Speaker 4: can make you feel desired. There's so many layers, but 314 00:18:45,320 --> 00:18:49,280 Speaker 4: if you give yourself a chance to pause, then you can, 315 00:18:49,600 --> 00:18:52,080 Speaker 4: you know, reevaluate why you're there and what you want 316 00:18:52,119 --> 00:18:55,919 Speaker 4: from that moment. The second part is have your homegirls 317 00:18:56,000 --> 00:18:59,879 Speaker 4: help you. So letting your homegirls know what type of 318 00:19:00,200 --> 00:19:02,560 Speaker 4: sex you want and who you want it with, and 319 00:19:02,600 --> 00:19:06,120 Speaker 4: being like, y'all hold me accountable. Like if I say 320 00:19:06,160 --> 00:19:08,080 Speaker 4: I'm going to see so and so, and you know 321 00:19:08,280 --> 00:19:11,280 Speaker 4: so and so isn't about anything that I want, be like, 322 00:19:11,320 --> 00:19:13,639 Speaker 4: hey girl, can you come over here instead and help me, 323 00:19:13,920 --> 00:19:17,720 Speaker 4: like do this other thing? Because don't go over there. 324 00:19:17,880 --> 00:19:21,320 Speaker 2: Right, don't walk into a situation that you know is 325 00:19:21,359 --> 00:19:23,159 Speaker 2: going to leave you feel in some kind of way. 326 00:19:23,520 --> 00:19:26,040 Speaker 2: And I do think one of the things like that 327 00:19:26,160 --> 00:19:29,359 Speaker 2: I'm even curious about personally, it's just like that sort 328 00:19:29,359 --> 00:19:32,199 Speaker 2: of like morning after. I don't know if it's shame, 329 00:19:32,440 --> 00:19:38,600 Speaker 2: I don't know if it's loneliness, regret. Yeah, what's your 330 00:19:38,640 --> 00:19:42,160 Speaker 2: advice for people who sort of like have sex. Maybe 331 00:19:42,160 --> 00:19:45,280 Speaker 2: it wasn't that, it wasn't that bad. I guess it 332 00:19:45,400 --> 00:19:48,040 Speaker 2: was just fine, But the next day leaves them feeling 333 00:19:48,200 --> 00:19:52,280 Speaker 2: like disregulated or something like so maybe disconnected. Like what's 334 00:19:52,320 --> 00:19:55,840 Speaker 2: your advice to people for sort of that day after. 335 00:19:56,480 --> 00:20:00,800 Speaker 4: When you decide what the experience is that can inform 336 00:20:00,920 --> 00:20:03,680 Speaker 4: what you do next. So you wake up the next 337 00:20:03,680 --> 00:20:05,520 Speaker 4: morning beside this person, or you go home and you 338 00:20:05,560 --> 00:20:07,679 Speaker 4: wake up and you're like, I need to cuddle with 339 00:20:07,720 --> 00:20:08,119 Speaker 4: this person. 340 00:20:08,119 --> 00:20:08,600 Speaker 1: What the fuck? 341 00:20:08,840 --> 00:20:09,040 Speaker 4: You know? 342 00:20:09,760 --> 00:20:10,800 Speaker 2: Right right? 343 00:20:10,880 --> 00:20:13,240 Speaker 4: I wanted to cuddle and I get a cuddle. Yeah 344 00:20:13,280 --> 00:20:16,240 Speaker 4: I am, I'm not getting what I want in this experience. 345 00:20:17,760 --> 00:20:20,679 Speaker 4: To say, was there an opportunity where I could have 346 00:20:20,760 --> 00:20:23,199 Speaker 4: asked for what I wanted and I didn't, where I 347 00:20:23,240 --> 00:20:28,280 Speaker 4: betrayed myself? And if so, just journal a little a 348 00:20:28,320 --> 00:20:31,520 Speaker 4: little bit about where that came from. When was the 349 00:20:31,560 --> 00:20:34,360 Speaker 4: moment or moments where you realized, oh, I can ask 350 00:20:34,400 --> 00:20:38,480 Speaker 4: for something different and I didn't, and what stopped me 351 00:20:38,520 --> 00:20:42,560 Speaker 4: from doing that? Whatever it is, take stock of it, 352 00:20:43,400 --> 00:20:47,359 Speaker 4: Just write it down and don't necessarily change your behavior immediately, 353 00:20:47,400 --> 00:20:49,359 Speaker 4: because sometimes you just need to reflect and kind of 354 00:20:49,400 --> 00:20:53,280 Speaker 4: sit with what it was and not immediately go to 355 00:20:53,320 --> 00:20:54,080 Speaker 4: the next thing. 356 00:21:18,800 --> 00:21:21,160 Speaker 2: You talk about pleasure in your book and you say 357 00:21:21,200 --> 00:21:25,600 Speaker 2: it is important to explore pleasure separate from orgasms. 358 00:21:26,160 --> 00:21:28,080 Speaker 1: Can you speak to that a little like. 359 00:21:28,040 --> 00:21:32,480 Speaker 4: For me, orgasm isn't even in my top five of 360 00:21:32,760 --> 00:21:37,600 Speaker 4: best sexual experiences. They were pleasurable. The pleasure is in 361 00:21:37,640 --> 00:21:43,520 Speaker 4: the feeling of physical and enjoyment and arousal, and the 362 00:21:43,680 --> 00:21:47,880 Speaker 4: orgasm for me, even as a multi orgasmic person, kind 363 00:21:47,880 --> 00:21:51,400 Speaker 4: of concludes that thing that I want to extend. And 364 00:21:51,440 --> 00:21:55,439 Speaker 4: so ongoing pleasure is one of those ways that I 365 00:21:55,480 --> 00:21:59,040 Speaker 4: help people think about how orgasm and pleasure are different. 366 00:21:59,240 --> 00:22:02,119 Speaker 4: So orgasms can be pleasurable, but they can also be 367 00:22:02,440 --> 00:22:06,200 Speaker 4: corese They can also be like abrupt, they can also 368 00:22:06,280 --> 00:22:09,560 Speaker 4: be painful, depending on how your body contracts during the 369 00:22:09,640 --> 00:22:13,760 Speaker 4: orgasm had experience. Pleasure is delightful in your body. It 370 00:22:13,920 --> 00:22:19,480 Speaker 4: feels really good. Some people it's the physical pleasure, but 371 00:22:19,600 --> 00:22:23,000 Speaker 4: some people it's the connection pleasure. Some people it's the 372 00:22:23,160 --> 00:22:25,840 Speaker 4: complidence pleasure. It's like I was really good at that, 373 00:22:26,160 --> 00:22:29,600 Speaker 4: and that is rewarding. And I think that exploring what 374 00:22:29,680 --> 00:22:32,720 Speaker 4: those types of pleasure are for you can make a 375 00:22:32,720 --> 00:22:36,879 Speaker 4: big difference in how you differentiate orgasm, which is like 376 00:22:36,960 --> 00:22:40,720 Speaker 4: a momentary thing. Maybe it last its sixty seconds at most, but. 377 00:22:40,720 --> 00:22:42,280 Speaker 1: I guess where my head is going. 378 00:22:42,560 --> 00:22:46,639 Speaker 2: Because I mostly have sex with straight cys men, I 379 00:22:46,680 --> 00:22:51,520 Speaker 2: feel like so often their motivation is just the orgasm. 380 00:22:52,240 --> 00:22:56,040 Speaker 2: And I wish that, like more straight cysts heterosexual men 381 00:22:56,520 --> 00:23:00,439 Speaker 2: understood this idea of pleasure because one thing me and 382 00:23:00,480 --> 00:23:03,199 Speaker 2: my girlfriends kind of laugh about is so often when 383 00:23:03,240 --> 00:23:05,040 Speaker 2: I go home with a guy, I'll be like, we're 384 00:23:05,040 --> 00:23:07,239 Speaker 2: not going to have sex, because if I tell them 385 00:23:07,280 --> 00:23:09,000 Speaker 2: we're not going to have sex, that means I get 386 00:23:09,000 --> 00:23:09,880 Speaker 2: to do all the fun. 387 00:23:09,720 --> 00:23:11,240 Speaker 1: Stuff, you know what I mean. 388 00:23:11,359 --> 00:23:14,199 Speaker 2: I'm like, we get to extend all of that and 389 00:23:14,240 --> 00:23:15,880 Speaker 2: they have to like work for it. 390 00:23:17,600 --> 00:23:19,560 Speaker 1: What are your just your thoughts on it? 391 00:23:20,359 --> 00:23:24,040 Speaker 4: This is one of those things where studying black sexuality 392 00:23:24,359 --> 00:23:28,919 Speaker 4: really gives me in a different insight. Are the people 393 00:23:30,200 --> 00:23:35,520 Speaker 4: that you're talking about mostly white men? Yeah, there's something 394 00:23:35,600 --> 00:23:38,560 Speaker 4: to be said about. There's an orgasm gap paper that 395 00:23:38,680 --> 00:23:43,040 Speaker 4: came out. I want to say it's Grace Wetzel who 396 00:23:43,359 --> 00:23:47,840 Speaker 4: wrote this paper, but basically, the orgasm gap between black 397 00:23:47,880 --> 00:23:51,920 Speaker 4: women and black men is the smallest amazing. I did 398 00:23:51,960 --> 00:23:54,520 Speaker 4: focus groups with black men that was my dissertation research 399 00:23:54,960 --> 00:23:58,640 Speaker 4: and then some earlier research I did with younger black 400 00:23:58,680 --> 00:24:02,200 Speaker 4: men college age black men was like I felt best 401 00:24:02,240 --> 00:24:04,600 Speaker 4: when I did an orgasm because I knew I was 402 00:24:04,680 --> 00:24:07,560 Speaker 4: giving her pleasure and I don't want her to walk 403 00:24:07,560 --> 00:24:10,639 Speaker 4: away from this experience with me feeling like she wasted 404 00:24:10,680 --> 00:24:14,000 Speaker 4: her time. That is important to me. So the best 405 00:24:14,040 --> 00:24:16,320 Speaker 4: experience that they talk about was where they didn't even 406 00:24:16,320 --> 00:24:19,440 Speaker 4: come because they were lasting a long time. They were 407 00:24:19,440 --> 00:24:22,520 Speaker 4: in the gate, like that was important to them. I 408 00:24:22,520 --> 00:24:24,119 Speaker 4: don't know if that's the case for white men. I 409 00:24:24,119 --> 00:24:26,440 Speaker 4: would have to ask them, and I haven't done any 410 00:24:26,480 --> 00:24:28,760 Speaker 4: studies where I asked them, but I do know that 411 00:24:28,800 --> 00:24:30,560 Speaker 4: the orgasm gets larger. 412 00:24:30,400 --> 00:24:32,240 Speaker 1: In my experience. It is not that it is not 413 00:24:32,280 --> 00:24:33,120 Speaker 1: their thought process. 414 00:24:35,520 --> 00:24:38,280 Speaker 4: I'm like I could attest. 415 00:24:38,680 --> 00:24:42,520 Speaker 2: They don't think that way, which makes sense. I think again, 416 00:24:42,560 --> 00:24:45,600 Speaker 2: if we go back to those systems, it's just like 417 00:24:46,400 --> 00:24:53,439 Speaker 2: they are rewarded for not putting anyone else's experience before 418 00:24:53,440 --> 00:24:56,679 Speaker 2: their own, and the way the world they think is 419 00:24:56,720 --> 00:25:03,399 Speaker 2: structured for them holds them back in that way. Just 420 00:25:03,440 --> 00:25:06,600 Speaker 2: thinking about this orgasm gap between like black men and 421 00:25:06,600 --> 00:25:10,720 Speaker 2: black women and how black men prioritize pleasure for women. 422 00:25:11,040 --> 00:25:13,960 Speaker 2: It reminded me of the movie Centers, because I feel 423 00:25:14,000 --> 00:25:18,560 Speaker 2: like in the movie Sinners there was more eating box 424 00:25:18,640 --> 00:25:20,040 Speaker 2: propaganda than. 425 00:25:19,920 --> 00:25:22,560 Speaker 4: I have seen in my life. 426 00:25:22,680 --> 00:25:26,120 Speaker 2: And I was like, wow, like in that movie they 427 00:25:26,320 --> 00:25:28,679 Speaker 2: really sort of like I don't know, it sort of 428 00:25:28,720 --> 00:25:31,479 Speaker 2: lines up for me, like this research and this like 429 00:25:32,000 --> 00:25:36,480 Speaker 2: amazing black film about like it prioritizes women's pleasures. 430 00:25:36,600 --> 00:25:38,639 Speaker 1: So it all checks out for me. 431 00:25:39,520 --> 00:25:43,960 Speaker 4: Bryan, I literally you a me too. 432 00:25:44,040 --> 00:25:47,960 Speaker 2: That was like such an amazing movie in so many ways. 433 00:25:48,600 --> 00:25:51,080 Speaker 2: What do you think is the most important thing for 434 00:25:51,320 --> 00:25:54,240 Speaker 2: us all to unlearn when it comes to sex? 435 00:25:54,840 --> 00:25:59,520 Speaker 4: Okay, So me and my husband had a year of celibacy, 436 00:26:00,640 --> 00:26:05,520 Speaker 4: and it was after we had already had sexual experiences 437 00:26:05,560 --> 00:26:08,560 Speaker 4: with each other, and he was like, you know, really 438 00:26:08,880 --> 00:26:12,560 Speaker 4: deep into his Christian walk, and I was like, well, look, 439 00:26:12,600 --> 00:26:14,040 Speaker 4: if you want me to join you in that, we're 440 00:26:14,040 --> 00:26:17,040 Speaker 4: gonna have to go all the way. I would not 441 00:26:17,280 --> 00:26:17,960 Speaker 4: do that again. 442 00:26:18,040 --> 00:26:22,040 Speaker 2: And I'll tell you you did it for a year. 443 00:26:22,200 --> 00:26:22,680 Speaker 1: A year. 444 00:26:23,160 --> 00:26:23,440 Speaker 2: Yeah. 445 00:26:24,040 --> 00:26:30,400 Speaker 4: I had a mis interpretation of what Christianity was inviting 446 00:26:30,440 --> 00:26:33,359 Speaker 4: me to do. What I thought it was going to 447 00:26:33,400 --> 00:26:37,840 Speaker 4: do was broker me access to the love I wanted, 448 00:26:38,600 --> 00:26:43,320 Speaker 4: the type of relationship structure I wanted, and I thought 449 00:26:43,440 --> 00:26:46,360 Speaker 4: that access and having those things would make me a 450 00:26:46,400 --> 00:26:51,240 Speaker 4: better person. So just investing in this idea of elitism 451 00:26:51,400 --> 00:26:54,680 Speaker 4: in general was what I had to learn. Like being 452 00:26:54,720 --> 00:26:59,040 Speaker 4: married is better than being single, being able to commit 453 00:26:59,080 --> 00:27:03,280 Speaker 4: to abstinence is better than busted wide, you know, like. 454 00:27:03,520 --> 00:27:06,920 Speaker 1: Yeah, that's so funny, that true. 455 00:27:09,440 --> 00:27:12,080 Speaker 4: None of it was true. Like together, we've been together 456 00:27:12,160 --> 00:27:14,640 Speaker 4: for a decade and we both looked back on that time, 457 00:27:14,720 --> 00:27:17,439 Speaker 4: like what were we thinking? Because we have learned so 458 00:27:17,600 --> 00:27:18,840 Speaker 4: much together. 459 00:27:18,600 --> 00:27:19,800 Speaker 1: That's so funny. 460 00:27:20,200 --> 00:27:24,199 Speaker 2: Did that year get you all closer? Like by the 461 00:27:24,320 --> 00:27:26,359 Speaker 2: end of it, Like do you feel like you grew 462 00:27:26,400 --> 00:27:28,600 Speaker 2: together in that time? Or was it just kind of 463 00:27:28,640 --> 00:27:31,480 Speaker 2: a time of like like did you walk away from 464 00:27:31,480 --> 00:27:32,879 Speaker 2: it just kind of being like what was that? 465 00:27:33,400 --> 00:27:34,560 Speaker 1: Like what do we do? 466 00:27:34,720 --> 00:27:36,960 Speaker 4: Like I guess what I'm saying is I think we 467 00:27:37,000 --> 00:27:41,720 Speaker 4: would have grown together either way, and maybe there would 468 00:27:41,720 --> 00:27:45,240 Speaker 4: have been different ways we grew in different ways that 469 00:27:45,680 --> 00:27:48,600 Speaker 4: you know, we would still have to learn today. 470 00:27:49,920 --> 00:27:53,720 Speaker 2: And can I also ask you celibacy It's like such 471 00:27:53,720 --> 00:27:57,040 Speaker 2: a vague word, right, It's like sometimes celibacy is like 472 00:27:57,280 --> 00:28:02,040 Speaker 2: only no penetration. Sometimes it's like truly everything top to bottom. 473 00:28:02,400 --> 00:28:04,200 Speaker 2: Can I ask what y'all were practicing in that way? 474 00:28:05,080 --> 00:28:07,840 Speaker 4: Mm hmm, Like we were kissing and making out and 475 00:28:07,880 --> 00:28:13,880 Speaker 4: that was for a year. There was no worl no fingers, 476 00:28:14,200 --> 00:28:17,040 Speaker 4: no licking, like none of the goodies. 477 00:28:17,160 --> 00:28:21,119 Speaker 2: That Wow, I need you to actually like write a 478 00:28:21,119 --> 00:28:23,080 Speaker 2: book about this year for. 479 00:28:22,960 --> 00:28:28,479 Speaker 4: Me, because there's this like idea, this script, and of 480 00:28:28,480 --> 00:28:31,040 Speaker 4: course it comes from purity culture. It comes from like 481 00:28:31,160 --> 00:28:34,800 Speaker 4: Christian ideals. And I don't think those things are necessarily wrong. 482 00:28:35,119 --> 00:28:38,040 Speaker 4: I just think they were not right for me. And 483 00:28:38,360 --> 00:28:40,720 Speaker 4: I bought into it because I thought it would make 484 00:28:40,920 --> 00:28:44,800 Speaker 4: me better or make my relationship and it did not. 485 00:28:45,040 --> 00:28:46,920 Speaker 4: So if I wrote a book about that, that would 486 00:28:46,920 --> 00:28:47,680 Speaker 4: be very no. 487 00:28:47,800 --> 00:28:50,080 Speaker 2: I mean, well, you're like preaching to the choir a 488 00:28:50,080 --> 00:28:54,320 Speaker 2: little bit because this entire Boys Soover journey was inspired 489 00:28:54,360 --> 00:28:56,680 Speaker 2: to give up sex for a year and I could 490 00:28:56,720 --> 00:29:00,920 Speaker 2: not do it, and I thought it was and I 491 00:29:00,960 --> 00:29:03,200 Speaker 2: thought it was gonna fix me too, you know what 492 00:29:03,240 --> 00:29:05,480 Speaker 2: I mean, Like like like I said, I was, like 493 00:29:05,520 --> 00:29:07,480 Speaker 2: I realized, I was like, oh, I started having sex 494 00:29:07,520 --> 00:29:10,720 Speaker 2: too young, like and I kept it like a really 495 00:29:10,720 --> 00:29:15,360 Speaker 2: big secret for so long and when I sort of 496 00:29:15,400 --> 00:29:18,240 Speaker 2: like realized, oh my god, I was so young when 497 00:29:18,240 --> 00:29:20,960 Speaker 2: this happened, and I like fully went into like secrecy 498 00:29:21,040 --> 00:29:24,480 Speaker 2: shame mode for the past like fifteen years. I like 499 00:29:25,200 --> 00:29:29,360 Speaker 2: not untangled that yet, you know. I just that's when 500 00:29:29,400 --> 00:29:31,680 Speaker 2: I decided to like take a step back, and I 501 00:29:31,720 --> 00:29:35,440 Speaker 2: started googling, like what's a normal age to start having sex? 502 00:29:35,480 --> 00:29:39,280 Speaker 2: Because I was just wondering, like, is thirteen? Is it 503 00:29:39,400 --> 00:29:42,280 Speaker 2: so not? Like I still kind of as a young adult, 504 00:29:42,400 --> 00:29:45,240 Speaker 2: had like so much shame around it, and I was 505 00:29:45,280 --> 00:29:48,200 Speaker 2: wondering if you could speak to like why that is 506 00:29:48,480 --> 00:29:51,480 Speaker 2: why having sex at a young age is so stigmatized 507 00:29:52,240 --> 00:29:54,320 Speaker 2: and how you see it now. 508 00:29:55,200 --> 00:30:00,600 Speaker 4: I think it's stigmatized because we don't treat kids as 509 00:30:00,640 --> 00:30:05,880 Speaker 4: if they have decision making power. We want to protect 510 00:30:05,920 --> 00:30:11,440 Speaker 4: them from possible negative consequences of sex before your prefrontal 511 00:30:11,440 --> 00:30:16,080 Speaker 4: core tex has developed. We feel, as adults shame about sex, 512 00:30:16,120 --> 00:30:19,440 Speaker 4: and so we like to just sprinkle other people with it. 513 00:30:20,240 --> 00:30:25,120 Speaker 4: But there's also like an agist capitalist underlying piece of that, 514 00:30:25,200 --> 00:30:27,200 Speaker 4: where it's like you don't have money to take care 515 00:30:27,360 --> 00:30:31,200 Speaker 4: of sexual responsibilities, so you certainly shouldn't be having no sex, 516 00:30:32,040 --> 00:30:35,560 Speaker 4: And we see those ideas get translated to poor people 517 00:30:35,600 --> 00:30:40,560 Speaker 4: who are grown disading people, And so I think there's 518 00:30:40,600 --> 00:30:44,000 Speaker 4: a lot that goes into that instead of preparing kids 519 00:30:44,120 --> 00:30:47,200 Speaker 4: and teens in particular with all the knowledge they need 520 00:30:47,240 --> 00:30:52,400 Speaker 4: to have and being a source of information and not 521 00:30:52,560 --> 00:30:55,440 Speaker 4: shame for them. So one thing I end up asking 522 00:30:55,520 --> 00:30:57,680 Speaker 4: kids is how will you know when the time is 523 00:30:57,760 --> 00:30:59,600 Speaker 4: right for you? What are the things you're looking for? 524 00:31:00,080 --> 00:31:03,160 Speaker 4: At least it gives them permission to be sexually curious 525 00:31:03,200 --> 00:31:05,120 Speaker 4: with an adult that can be trusted. 526 00:31:05,520 --> 00:31:08,880 Speaker 2: Yeah, and to just be honest about those feelings, because 527 00:31:08,880 --> 00:31:11,840 Speaker 2: I think the honest truth about like middle school and 528 00:31:11,920 --> 00:31:16,120 Speaker 2: adolescence and like that age is like you're thinking about it, 529 00:31:16,640 --> 00:31:19,600 Speaker 2: And if you're thinking about it and you're not talking 530 00:31:19,640 --> 00:31:23,600 Speaker 2: to anybody about it, that's just not helpful, Like you 531 00:31:23,680 --> 00:31:26,280 Speaker 2: know what I mean, Like you got to have somebody 532 00:31:26,320 --> 00:31:30,760 Speaker 2: to like seek some counsel with. How do you think 533 00:31:30,800 --> 00:31:34,400 Speaker 2: somebody can walk away from a moment like that where 534 00:31:34,400 --> 00:31:38,120 Speaker 2: they feel like some deep shame about a sexual experience 535 00:31:38,680 --> 00:31:41,880 Speaker 2: and like metabolize it into a way that gives them 536 00:31:41,960 --> 00:31:43,240 Speaker 2: kind of more confidence. 537 00:31:44,680 --> 00:31:48,479 Speaker 4: I think the way we talk to ourselves verbally and 538 00:31:48,600 --> 00:31:52,040 Speaker 4: nonverbally makes a big difference in shame. I don't usually 539 00:31:52,080 --> 00:31:54,360 Speaker 4: expect people to come out of shame just because they 540 00:31:54,400 --> 00:31:58,520 Speaker 4: want to, because it's one of those deeply rooted emotions. 541 00:31:58,520 --> 00:32:01,000 Speaker 4: But I do invite people to talk back to the 542 00:32:01,000 --> 00:32:05,080 Speaker 4: shame m So it's like, Okay, the emotion of shame 543 00:32:05,160 --> 00:32:08,120 Speaker 4: comes up when you think about this thing, what's something 544 00:32:08,160 --> 00:32:11,280 Speaker 4: that you can say to yourself to affirm your inherent worthiness, 545 00:32:11,600 --> 00:32:14,440 Speaker 4: your curiosity at the time. So I had my sexual 546 00:32:14,480 --> 00:32:16,760 Speaker 4: debut at fourteen. I don't have any shame about it, 547 00:32:17,240 --> 00:32:21,000 Speaker 4: but at a time season when I did, it could 548 00:32:21,080 --> 00:32:26,040 Speaker 4: be Hey, I was really curious, and I was thoughtful 549 00:32:26,080 --> 00:32:28,640 Speaker 4: about when I had it and who I had it with, 550 00:32:28,920 --> 00:32:31,520 Speaker 4: And so I love that experience for myself. So even 551 00:32:31,560 --> 00:32:34,959 Speaker 4: if I'm holding the emotion of shame, I'm also holding 552 00:32:35,000 --> 00:32:38,440 Speaker 4: some really positive messaging and framing around it until the 553 00:32:38,440 --> 00:32:42,080 Speaker 4: emotion of shame starts to dissipate. So not to just 554 00:32:42,240 --> 00:32:45,240 Speaker 4: exactly like take somebody out of shame, I think that 555 00:32:45,400 --> 00:32:48,840 Speaker 4: just takes time. But how do you speak to how 556 00:32:48,840 --> 00:32:51,520 Speaker 4: do you affirm and have compassion for and love for 557 00:32:51,760 --> 00:32:54,680 Speaker 4: the self you were then and the grown person you 558 00:32:54,760 --> 00:32:57,640 Speaker 4: are now so that you don't replicate the shame. Because 559 00:32:57,640 --> 00:33:00,560 Speaker 4: a lot of people get into like shaming other people 560 00:33:00,640 --> 00:33:02,920 Speaker 4: because they feel like they were shamed. 561 00:33:02,960 --> 00:33:07,440 Speaker 2: Or they have like yeah, no capacity to talk down 562 00:33:07,680 --> 00:33:10,360 Speaker 2: their own shame, and so how could they have a 563 00:33:10,440 --> 00:33:14,880 Speaker 2: capacity to like give someone else that same or like 564 00:33:14,960 --> 00:33:17,120 Speaker 2: any kind of like grace or understanding. 565 00:33:19,040 --> 00:33:21,120 Speaker 4: This is huge for me. I'm like, I'm gonna start 566 00:33:21,200 --> 00:33:23,520 Speaker 4: to like the idea. 567 00:33:23,400 --> 00:33:27,560 Speaker 2: Of speaking to your shame and like really wrestling with it. 568 00:33:27,840 --> 00:33:30,280 Speaker 4: Don't wrestle with it though, That's what I'm saying. Don't 569 00:33:30,320 --> 00:33:34,320 Speaker 4: even wrestle have compassion for it, because wrestling with it 570 00:33:34,360 --> 00:33:37,040 Speaker 4: is a lot of us try to do like I 571 00:33:37,040 --> 00:33:39,000 Speaker 4: shouldn't be feeling that. Get out of here. And it's like, 572 00:33:39,480 --> 00:33:42,960 Speaker 4: it makes perfect sense that you would feel shame if 573 00:33:42,960 --> 00:33:45,480 Speaker 4: you grew up in purity culture. So I get why 574 00:33:45,520 --> 00:33:46,240 Speaker 4: that's still with you. 575 00:33:47,040 --> 00:33:52,200 Speaker 2: My last question, how do we unlearn our sexual scripts? 576 00:33:52,960 --> 00:33:57,200 Speaker 2: What can someone do to really sort of detach from 577 00:33:57,200 --> 00:33:59,120 Speaker 2: what they've been taught about sex? 578 00:33:59,800 --> 00:34:02,680 Speaker 4: You need to first identify what you do want and 579 00:34:02,720 --> 00:34:06,240 Speaker 4: how you want it. So giving yourself room and like 580 00:34:06,400 --> 00:34:08,880 Speaker 4: a lot of people have never been asked, and a 581 00:34:08,920 --> 00:34:11,360 Speaker 4: lot of people don't make room for themselves too. Just 582 00:34:11,680 --> 00:34:14,319 Speaker 4: write out here are all the things that I want. 583 00:34:14,440 --> 00:34:16,680 Speaker 4: Here are the activities that I want to do and try. 584 00:34:17,280 --> 00:34:19,239 Speaker 4: Here are the things I don't want, so a gues no, 585 00:34:19,360 --> 00:34:21,879 Speaker 4: maybe so is the easiest way to do that? And 586 00:34:21,920 --> 00:34:25,480 Speaker 4: then how you want it? Like do you want your 587 00:34:25,520 --> 00:34:27,719 Speaker 4: sex to be passionate? Do you want your sex to 588 00:34:27,760 --> 00:34:29,880 Speaker 4: be safe? Do you want your sex to be loving? 589 00:34:29,920 --> 00:34:31,240 Speaker 4: Do you want it to be nasty? 590 00:34:31,480 --> 00:34:31,600 Speaker 7: Like? 591 00:34:32,680 --> 00:34:35,960 Speaker 4: Figure out how you want it to be. That's your 592 00:34:36,000 --> 00:34:39,240 Speaker 4: first step, So go for yourself. Then if your partner 593 00:34:39,600 --> 00:34:41,919 Speaker 4: to hear that with someone else, so then that means 594 00:34:41,960 --> 00:34:45,520 Speaker 4: you have to choose courage in having the audacity to 595 00:34:45,560 --> 00:34:49,319 Speaker 4: communicate what you want right. Once you do it, then 596 00:34:49,360 --> 00:34:52,200 Speaker 4: you gotta practice. Do you got to try? Fuck it up? 597 00:34:52,320 --> 00:34:56,480 Speaker 4: Try mess up, try and keep going in the practice 598 00:34:56,520 --> 00:35:00,160 Speaker 4: of it. And I think that is how we get there. 599 00:35:00,440 --> 00:35:02,839 Speaker 2: I'm gonna call that girlfriend of mine after this and 600 00:35:02,920 --> 00:35:05,200 Speaker 2: check in on her and see. 601 00:35:04,960 --> 00:35:06,520 Speaker 1: How that vibrator has been helping. 602 00:35:12,360 --> 00:35:15,560 Speaker 4: So it's been totally good to have it. 603 00:35:15,880 --> 00:35:19,400 Speaker 1: Have you been helpful? Yeah? Yeah, it's been totally helpful. 604 00:35:19,440 --> 00:35:21,440 Speaker 3: And I think I did have a lot of nerves 605 00:35:21,520 --> 00:35:23,839 Speaker 3: around sex in general because it never was. 606 00:35:23,800 --> 00:35:25,760 Speaker 4: So good, so it was like such a chore. 607 00:35:26,360 --> 00:35:31,360 Speaker 3: Yeah, And so it's been like really really nice. Like 608 00:35:31,400 --> 00:35:34,720 Speaker 3: whenever he's like, do you want to have sex, I'm like, actually, yeah, 609 00:35:34,719 --> 00:35:38,000 Speaker 3: because this will be really easy. And so we used 610 00:35:38,000 --> 00:35:40,600 Speaker 3: it a lot at first because we just like were 611 00:35:40,640 --> 00:35:43,120 Speaker 3: getting used to it and like getting used to me 612 00:35:43,320 --> 00:35:45,440 Speaker 3: like not feeling stressed about telling him what to do 613 00:35:45,480 --> 00:35:47,799 Speaker 3: and how to do it, but just like it was 614 00:35:47,880 --> 00:35:49,040 Speaker 3: just like an automatic. 615 00:35:49,320 --> 00:35:50,839 Speaker 1: It's gonna work so easy. 616 00:35:51,560 --> 00:35:53,320 Speaker 4: Yeah, like easy, easy, easy, easy. 617 00:35:53,520 --> 00:35:56,399 Speaker 3: I don't desire to use it by myself. I want 618 00:35:56,480 --> 00:35:59,440 Speaker 3: to want to have sex with him always. Yeah, And 619 00:35:59,520 --> 00:36:02,239 Speaker 3: so like I think it's appropriate if we were out 620 00:36:02,320 --> 00:36:04,759 Speaker 3: of town or like a part but if we're together, like, 621 00:36:04,800 --> 00:36:07,160 Speaker 3: I don't feel like there's any reason why I should 622 00:36:07,200 --> 00:36:08,760 Speaker 3: be like you know what, I'm not going to invite 623 00:36:08,760 --> 00:36:09,640 Speaker 3: you into this moment. 624 00:36:09,800 --> 00:36:10,480 Speaker 1: Yes, totally. 625 00:36:11,040 --> 00:36:13,520 Speaker 3: We use it intermittently now because I feel like it's 626 00:36:13,560 --> 00:36:15,520 Speaker 3: opened up the door to be able to say, like 627 00:36:15,680 --> 00:36:18,319 Speaker 3: I like this, and so I want you to do 628 00:36:18,400 --> 00:36:19,719 Speaker 3: this like this language. 629 00:36:19,840 --> 00:36:23,200 Speaker 1: Wow, I'm really so happy for you. Yeah, me too. 630 00:36:23,239 --> 00:36:24,320 Speaker 3: It's been so good. 631 00:36:27,320 --> 00:36:29,319 Speaker 2: I really hope that man who told me my friend 632 00:36:29,360 --> 00:36:33,040 Speaker 2: shouldn't get a vibrator is listening. Being more open and 633 00:36:33,080 --> 00:36:35,640 Speaker 2: in touch with what you want leads to better sex 634 00:36:35,719 --> 00:36:39,120 Speaker 2: for everyone. That's what I'm taking away from my conversation 635 00:36:39,200 --> 00:36:41,880 Speaker 2: with doctor Candice today, and I hope you got a 636 00:36:41,880 --> 00:36:44,520 Speaker 2: lot out of it too. Join me next week for 637 00:36:44,640 --> 00:36:48,680 Speaker 2: more conversations where we can unlearn and heal together. Talk 638 00:36:48,719 --> 00:37:03,279 Speaker 2: to y'all next week. Boy Sover is a production of 639 00:37:03,320 --> 00:37:08,200 Speaker 2: iHeart Podcasts. I'm your host, Hopewordard. Our executive producers are 640 00:37:08,280 --> 00:37:12,840 Speaker 2: Christina Everett and Julie Pinero. Our supervising producer is Emily 641 00:37:12,880 --> 00:37:18,000 Speaker 2: Meronoff engineering by Bahid Fraser and mixing and mastering. 642 00:37:17,600 --> 00:37:18,680 Speaker 1: By Aboo Zafar. 643 00:37:19,400 --> 00:37:22,200 Speaker 2: If you liked this episode, please tell a friend and 644 00:37:22,280 --> 00:37:25,359 Speaker 2: don't forget to rate, review, and subscribe to Boy Sober 645 00:37:25,480 --> 00:37:29,239 Speaker 2: on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, and wherever you get 646 00:37:29,280 --> 00:37:32,360 Speaker 2: your favorite shows.