WEBVTT - Get IN Your Feelings ft. Dr. Joy | MiniPod 0:00:00.120 --> 0:00:03.200 Native LAMB Pod is the production of iHeartRadio in partnership 0:00:03.240 --> 0:00:04.880 with Reason Choice Media. 0:00:04.960 --> 0:00:08.120 Welcome, Welcome, Welcome, Welcome, Welcome, Welcome. 0:00:07.760 --> 0:00:13.360 Welcome home, y'all is Mini pod Day, and I'm thrilled 0:00:13.440 --> 0:00:16.120 because we have very special guests joining us Doctor Joy 0:00:16.280 --> 0:00:19.560 Hard and Bradford. She's a licensed psychologist, a speaker, and 0:00:19.600 --> 0:00:22.560 host of the wildly popular mental health podcast Therapy for 0:00:22.600 --> 0:00:24.720 Black Girls. I've been a guest on her show before 0:00:25.000 --> 0:00:27.480 and turned it into my own personal therapy session. 0:00:27.520 --> 0:00:28.240 I got a free bee. 0:00:28.280 --> 0:00:28.680 Out of her. 0:00:29.560 --> 0:00:32.159 But we love doctor Joy. It's such a delight to 0:00:32.240 --> 0:00:34.040 have you on the show. I was so thrill and 0:00:34.040 --> 0:00:35.720 Angela said you would be our guest this week. 0:00:35.880 --> 0:00:40.479 So welcome home, Welcome you, Thank you, touch and to 0:00:40.560 --> 0:00:41.120 join you all. 0:00:41.560 --> 0:00:44.880 Even your voice is so soothing. I love hearing you. 0:00:45.120 --> 0:00:47.400 Might put me out right exactly. 0:00:47.800 --> 0:00:50.080 But there's a reason, Angela, you wanted to have doctor 0:00:50.159 --> 0:00:52.720 Joy on the show. I have my own personal therapy 0:00:52.800 --> 0:00:55.160 questions I'll be getting to later, But what was your reason. 0:00:56.240 --> 0:01:00.760 Well, there's a clip that keeps circulating online. It's been 0:01:00.880 --> 0:01:04.480 viral a few times, and I just want to play 0:01:04.520 --> 0:01:15.880 that clip. The clip is of a mother who has 0:01:15.959 --> 0:01:19.520 clearly sounded like she's sobbing as she moves around a 0:01:19.800 --> 0:01:23.200 very destroyed house. They say that this was seventy thousand 0:01:23.319 --> 0:01:27.920 dollars in damage done to her home by her twelve 0:01:28.000 --> 0:01:32.160 year old son because she simply took his device away. 0:01:32.480 --> 0:01:36.640 We regularly talk about on this show how these devices 0:01:36.680 --> 0:01:40.880 are all consuming. We see children getting into them much younger. 0:01:41.280 --> 0:01:43.760 I have a good friend of mine whose daughter. I 0:01:43.800 --> 0:01:46.240 was watching her daughter when she was two, and this 0:01:46.360 --> 0:01:48.560 was several years ago, and I had a book I 0:01:48.640 --> 0:01:51.040 was reading to her and the baby was swiping the 0:01:51.080 --> 0:01:54.640 page instead of turning the page. So you know, even 0:01:54.760 --> 0:01:56.760 even that, like, there are so many ways in which 0:01:56.760 --> 0:01:58.360 we begin to rely on these devices. 0:01:58.360 --> 0:01:58.960 For parents. 0:01:58.960 --> 0:02:02.160 Sometimes it's a necessary very mental health reprieve to give 0:02:02.200 --> 0:02:05.000 the child something to do. And then you also see 0:02:05.080 --> 0:02:10.080 kids whose minds are not developed enough to be able 0:02:10.080 --> 0:02:13.880 to hold devices, and when they're taken away, they flip out. 0:02:14.000 --> 0:02:17.800 I have never seen something online where a child flips 0:02:17.800 --> 0:02:20.919 out and causes this much damage. Or refrigerator was tipped 0:02:20.919 --> 0:02:24.600 over in here, every TV screen had a hole in 0:02:24.639 --> 0:02:29.240 it or was broken in some way. Dresser's furniture completely destroyed. Again, 0:02:29.280 --> 0:02:32.359 they said it was seventy thousand dollars worth of damage. 0:02:32.400 --> 0:02:36.320 So before you answer, doctor Joy, I want to go 0:02:36.400 --> 0:02:39.200 to my co host one who muttered under his breath. 0:02:39.440 --> 0:02:42.520 I have three options that I would have provided this child, 0:02:43.040 --> 0:02:45.360 and I want to see if my three options are 0:02:45.400 --> 0:02:47.640 aligned with my co host Andrew as you shake your 0:02:47.680 --> 0:02:48.720 head in person, all, oh. 0:02:48.720 --> 0:02:51.600 I'm not because I'm embarrassed with the doc here to 0:02:51.639 --> 0:02:53.200 say my reaction, I. 0:02:53.160 --> 0:02:54.680 Think you should say your reaction. 0:02:55.000 --> 0:02:57.800 Well, i'd said, you know, was the video was taking 0:02:57.800 --> 0:03:01.880 it in, I'd kick his ass, But I do not physically, 0:03:02.000 --> 0:03:05.800 of course, uh harm my children. Of course we have 0:03:05.840 --> 0:03:07.919 a stern talking to and I don't believe that would 0:03:07.960 --> 0:03:11.240 be in their their set of options to do when 0:03:11.280 --> 0:03:13.119 their devices are taken at all. 0:03:13.760 --> 0:03:17.040 Yeah, Tiff, how did you feel watching that with you? 0:03:17.080 --> 0:03:19.240 If this was your child, or a niece or nephew, 0:03:19.639 --> 0:03:21.960 a child's friend, what do you feel like your response 0:03:21.960 --> 0:03:23.120 would be to something like that? 0:03:23.200 --> 0:03:26.480 Well, you know, I I have an issue with kids 0:03:26.520 --> 0:03:29.280 on phones like that, and when I was watching it, 0:03:29.320 --> 0:03:34.160 I'm like, this is an addiction, clear and simple, and 0:03:34.560 --> 0:03:38.800 I think, you know, I don't want to blame parents, 0:03:38.840 --> 0:03:40.600 but I do. I look at that and think the 0:03:40.640 --> 0:03:45.800 parent has some responsibility because so often parents will make 0:03:45.880 --> 0:03:49.800 these devices the babysitter and put you know, the iPad 0:03:49.840 --> 0:03:53.000 down or give a phone down, and not only is 0:03:53.080 --> 0:03:57.760 that detrimental to their mental development and their health, but 0:03:58.040 --> 0:04:00.800 a study came out, I think last year or from 0:04:00.880 --> 0:04:04.320 jama that looked at data more than four thousand kids 0:04:04.400 --> 0:04:08.280 and linked addiction to social media, mobile phones, and video 0:04:08.360 --> 0:04:11.320 games the higher risk of suicidal thoughts and behavior. So 0:04:11.360 --> 0:04:14.200 when I see something like that, I think there is 0:04:14.400 --> 0:04:18.240 no more clear example that this is a real problem. 0:04:18.320 --> 0:04:22.159 That kid has some serious challenges that derived from the phone, 0:04:22.200 --> 0:04:26.520 but also perhaps not the most attentive home life and 0:04:26.560 --> 0:04:28.480 not getting enough mental stimulation elsewhere. 0:04:30.400 --> 0:04:33.960 Yeah, I definitely agree with both of y'all. I'm gonna 0:04:33.960 --> 0:04:36.680 say my first thing was like, oh, somebody getting an 0:04:36.720 --> 0:04:39.039 ass beat. And I don't even believe in whipping kids, 0:04:39.040 --> 0:04:41.640 but it's like, at this point, you chose violence. 0:04:41.880 --> 0:04:43.120 I'm choosing violence. 0:04:43.360 --> 0:04:45.280 I don't know whose child you are, but you going 0:04:45.360 --> 0:04:47.799 to whoever child you are because you're not my child 0:04:47.839 --> 0:04:51.320 doing those stuff like this like this is beyond. And 0:04:51.400 --> 0:04:53.400 the other thing that I thought about my mom used 0:04:53.440 --> 0:04:55.640 to cheat tease me when we were little. There was 0:04:55.960 --> 0:04:59.240 like some you know, Chitlin circuit play that came through Seattle, 0:04:59.640 --> 0:05:01.400 and the lady got on there and she would say 0:05:01.400 --> 0:05:04.080 I will kill you and tell God you died to 0:05:04.200 --> 0:05:06.320 her child. And my mom used to say that to 0:05:06.520 --> 0:05:08.960 me all the time, and that's the first thing I 0:05:09.000 --> 0:05:09.480 thought of here. 0:05:09.520 --> 0:05:11.200 I was like, Oh, my God, you're going to meet 0:05:11.240 --> 0:05:13.800 your maker. So God, did Joy, please tell us why 0:05:13.839 --> 0:05:14.359 we're wrong? 0:05:14.400 --> 0:05:18.840 And if this is ever listen to this show what 0:05:18.880 --> 0:05:21.320 you would advise her to do with this child that 0:05:21.440 --> 0:05:25.719 clearly has an addiction and some clear detrimental, destructive anger 0:05:25.760 --> 0:05:26.640 management issues. 0:05:27.880 --> 0:05:28.440 Yeah. 0:05:28.480 --> 0:05:30.559 So you know, when I watched, I had not seen 0:05:30.600 --> 0:05:34.600 this video before before you all shared it, and I 0:05:35.040 --> 0:05:38.520 was also struck by like the level of destruction in 0:05:38.600 --> 0:05:41.760 the home. And my first thought was, this is not 0:05:41.880 --> 0:05:44.360 just about the phone, right, Like I think the phones 0:05:44.400 --> 0:05:49.200 and devices feel like very easy places for us to blame, 0:05:49.880 --> 0:05:53.000 like what's happening. But my guess is that stuff has 0:05:53.040 --> 0:05:56.000 been building up long before the phone was taking it away. 0:05:57.040 --> 0:05:58.880 And I think it's also interesting I saw a lot 0:05:58.880 --> 0:06:01.360 of people in the comments talking about, you know, similar 0:06:01.520 --> 0:06:04.159 reactions like oh he needs to be beat, or people 0:06:04.160 --> 0:06:06.920 talked about like getting police involved in all of these things, 0:06:06.960 --> 0:06:09.560 all of which I do not think would be helpful. 0:06:09.720 --> 0:06:13.480 You know, so much of parenting is really about regulating 0:06:13.560 --> 0:06:16.599 ourselves so that we can then also help our children 0:06:17.040 --> 0:06:20.000 to regulate. And what I am seeing is just a 0:06:20.000 --> 0:06:23.640 complete lack of regulation. It feels like and maybe even 0:06:23.680 --> 0:06:26.400 more right, like there may be some addiction things related 0:06:26.440 --> 0:06:31.000 to the device, but also maybe some distress tolerance, some 0:06:31.160 --> 0:06:33.919 impulse control. Like it feels like there are a host 0:06:33.960 --> 0:06:36.560 of things that may be going on that were happening 0:06:36.560 --> 0:06:38.239 even before the phone was taken away. 0:06:38.800 --> 0:06:40.000 Doctor Joy, Can I ask. 0:06:40.880 --> 0:06:46.000 You know because you made me think that's that's you're 0:06:46.040 --> 0:06:46.800 right about? 0:06:46.960 --> 0:06:47.039 Right. 0:06:47.120 --> 0:06:49.320 I wanted to ask you because I don't think this 0:06:49.360 --> 0:06:53.480 is a problem specific to children. I sit at tables 0:06:53.480 --> 0:06:56.640 sometimes with people and they're looking down. I'm just out 0:06:56.640 --> 0:06:59.000 of respect for myself and my words and what I 0:06:59.040 --> 0:07:01.159 have to offer. When I'm not being listened to, I 0:07:01.200 --> 0:07:04.240 don't speak, I won't contribute to the conversation. If you're 0:07:04.279 --> 0:07:06.200 on your phone, then that has your attention. I'm not 0:07:06.240 --> 0:07:09.240 going to weigh in, but I notice when I'm at 0:07:09.320 --> 0:07:10.920 brunch and I'm looking at people and you have a 0:07:10.920 --> 0:07:13.840 table full of people and they're all looking down like this. 0:07:14.840 --> 0:07:18.120 And it's not that it just I think people don't 0:07:18.120 --> 0:07:20.640 have social grace anymore, like they have no idea. We 0:07:20.680 --> 0:07:23.040 talk on this show a lot about speaker phone. It 0:07:23.320 --> 0:07:24.960 drives me crazy. 0:07:25.160 --> 0:07:25.600 On the train. 0:07:25.680 --> 0:07:27.720 I take the train a lot between DC and New York, 0:07:27.880 --> 0:07:30.520 and people will just be there watching shows on speaker 0:07:30.560 --> 0:07:33.280 and I am the annoying person. It's like, excuse me, 0:07:33.560 --> 0:07:35.680 you need headphones on the train. Like I say it 0:07:35.720 --> 0:07:38.679 to everybody all the time in my workspace, I'm like, please, 0:07:38.720 --> 0:07:42.240 you can't be on speaker. But it just feels like 0:07:42.360 --> 0:07:46.520 we're so disconnected from each other, and these phones feel 0:07:46.680 --> 0:07:51.240 detrimental to our social health, our mental development as grown 0:07:51.360 --> 0:07:54.560 men and women. People don't know how to engage anymore. 0:07:54.640 --> 0:07:57.880 It's frustrating for me. I leave my phone downstairs. I'm 0:07:57.920 --> 0:08:01.360 intentional about not being on my phone all the time. 0:08:01.800 --> 0:08:02.720 What advice or. 0:08:02.720 --> 0:08:05.680 What would you say to not just children but adults, Like, 0:08:05.680 --> 0:08:09.400 what are some practices we can employ to be more 0:08:09.440 --> 0:08:11.520 connected and get off these devices. 0:08:11.560 --> 0:08:13.640 I mean, it's really ruining us. It annoys me, that's 0:08:13.640 --> 0:08:15.040 how much I think it's ruining us. 0:08:16.240 --> 0:08:18.560 Yeah, but look at how all of the energy that 0:08:18.600 --> 0:08:21.040 you have related to this tiffany a lot, And I 0:08:21.080 --> 0:08:23.640 think that that just speaks but it speaks to the 0:08:23.680 --> 0:08:26.560 power that the devices often have over us. And so 0:08:26.640 --> 0:08:29.280 when you think about as adults, we often struggle with 0:08:29.320 --> 0:08:31.480 putting the phone down and being more attended and being 0:08:31.520 --> 0:08:34.400 more engaging, you can only imagine what the young people 0:08:34.440 --> 0:08:37.000 in our lives struggle with, right, Like, their brains aren't 0:08:37.040 --> 0:08:39.960 even fully developed, so of course they struggle with setting 0:08:39.960 --> 0:08:41.800 limits around it. And so a lot of it is 0:08:41.920 --> 0:08:44.679 modeling for the young people in our lives. How do 0:08:44.720 --> 0:08:47.200 we take breaks from our devices? How do we actually 0:08:47.280 --> 0:08:49.880 engage with one another? I completely agree with you. I 0:08:49.880 --> 0:08:52.080 think that there is a lot of a lot of 0:08:52.120 --> 0:08:55.960 social graces that are just not being cultivated anymore. And 0:08:56.160 --> 0:08:58.000 I think we also have to think about the fact 0:08:58.000 --> 0:09:00.360 that many people also use their devices as a way 0:09:00.360 --> 0:09:03.080 to manage anxiety. So if you are like waiting for 0:09:03.160 --> 0:09:05.240 a friend to show up and you're like not wanting 0:09:05.240 --> 0:09:07.600 to have small talk, what do you do when you're scrolling? 0:09:07.679 --> 0:09:08.480 Maybe, right? 0:09:08.520 --> 0:09:10.200 And so I think that that's something else that people 0:09:10.200 --> 0:09:12.800 aren't always tapped into, is that many of us are 0:09:12.880 --> 0:09:15.360 using devices as a way to kind of regulate ourselves 0:09:15.360 --> 0:09:17.880 and to manage any anxiety that we might be feeling. 0:09:18.320 --> 0:09:21.200 So in terms of some tips you've already shared, like 0:09:21.400 --> 0:09:24.840 having some distance between yourself and the device, so especially 0:09:25.240 --> 0:09:27.720 at nighttime, right, Like there's all this research that talks 0:09:27.760 --> 0:09:30.600 about the blue lights and like how our brains continue 0:09:30.640 --> 0:09:33.240 to be engaged even when we are thinking the phone 0:09:33.320 --> 0:09:35.200 is down. So if you can sleep with it in 0:09:35.240 --> 0:09:37.959 a different room, that is incredibly helpful both to your 0:09:38.000 --> 0:09:41.120 mental health but also for your sleep. There are all 0:09:41.160 --> 0:09:43.840 these apps that you can also add to your devices 0:09:43.840 --> 0:09:46.640 that turn certain apps off, right, So if you don't 0:09:46.679 --> 0:09:49.040 want to be on the social media channels, or you 0:09:49.120 --> 0:09:51.840 only want to be able to check your email, like 0:09:51.880 --> 0:09:54.520 those kinds of things I think can also be really helpful. 0:09:54.800 --> 0:09:57.559 But also making sure that you're getting enough physical activity, 0:09:57.640 --> 0:10:00.000 So are you doing enough other things in your life 0:10:00.040 --> 0:10:03.200 life to stimulate you so that there isn't necessarily the 0:10:03.280 --> 0:10:05.560 need for the phone. But I do think it's important 0:10:05.559 --> 0:10:07.600 to think about, Like the way that we're talking about 0:10:07.600 --> 0:10:10.040 this is in a lot of ways the same ways 0:10:10.040 --> 0:10:13.000 we talk about like managing addictions, right, Like all these 0:10:13.000 --> 0:10:14.760 things we have to add to our lives to be 0:10:14.800 --> 0:10:17.959 able to put distance between ourselves and these devices. And 0:10:18.040 --> 0:10:20.280 it's meant to be that way, right, Like, there are 0:10:20.280 --> 0:10:23.160 tons of people who are hired by these companies who 0:10:23.200 --> 0:10:25.719 are their entire time is spant trying to figure out 0:10:25.720 --> 0:10:28.040 how to keep us on our devices. So I want 0:10:28.040 --> 0:10:30.880 people not to be ashamed by this, Like this is 0:10:30.880 --> 0:10:32.920 something that has kind of come into our lives and 0:10:33.080 --> 0:10:36.120 taken off, I think, much quicker than anybody anticipated. And 0:10:36.160 --> 0:10:37.840 so it really is important for us to think about 0:10:37.880 --> 0:10:39.960 how do we stay connected to our humanity, both for 0:10:40.000 --> 0:10:41.400 ourselves and with one another. 0:10:42.840 --> 0:10:45.760 It's perfect your piece around the addiction piece. I mean, 0:10:45.800 --> 0:10:49.160 I relate to that like strongly, just that people are 0:10:49.200 --> 0:10:52.800 spending their paid big dollars to keep us right with 0:10:52.880 --> 0:10:56.080 those devices. Now. Unlike Tiffany, I am not intentional about 0:10:56.200 --> 0:10:59.680 the distance from my devices. I'm just distant from my devices. 0:11:00.000 --> 0:11:04.360 I don't respond they yeah, they'd be another room sometimes 0:11:04.440 --> 0:11:09.040 in other states, uh, Tiffany h Sometimes in the car 0:11:09.320 --> 0:11:11.320 leave I left the last weekend, left it in the 0:11:11.320 --> 0:11:13.400 caught a whole weekend because I had to keep my 0:11:13.440 --> 0:11:17.160 attention on some sleepover and my three children. But the 0:11:17.640 --> 0:11:21.800 of course, the problem he creates is that it creates 0:11:21.840 --> 0:11:24.839 the expectation for everyone else that when they send you 0:11:24.920 --> 0:11:27.040 a thing, that you're right there to get it in 0:11:27.080 --> 0:11:30.120 the moment and then respond. And I say to people, 0:11:30.200 --> 0:11:32.240 and anyone knows me already knows it, knows it. I 0:11:32.280 --> 0:11:34.480 don't have to say it. If if I'm not physically 0:11:34.480 --> 0:11:37.200 holding that device when it comes in the message, I 0:11:37.320 --> 0:11:39.920 might not see that thing until I'm really trying to 0:11:39.960 --> 0:11:42.560 waste time, you know, standing in a line or something, 0:11:42.840 --> 0:11:44.760 and I may go back and revisit what that list 0:11:44.800 --> 0:11:49.640 is like. But our society has now created this unbearable 0:11:49.960 --> 0:11:55.840 expectation of instant everything, instant access, instant gratification, instant you know, 0:11:55.920 --> 0:11:58.959 da da, da, da da. And the Surgeon General last 0:11:59.040 --> 0:12:02.480 year issued a about these social media sites and sell 0:12:02.520 --> 0:12:06.959 phones particular, and gave advice for parents. And I'm parents 0:12:07.040 --> 0:12:09.040 of now these kids who are about to be teenagers 0:12:09.040 --> 0:12:11.840 in two years middle school is nonetheless who all their 0:12:11.840 --> 0:12:13.800 friends have them, And I told them, you're not getting one. 0:12:13.920 --> 0:12:17.200 And if you have to get it, it's being recommended 0:12:17.200 --> 0:12:19.720 that you're not by your children smartphones. That you get 0:12:19.720 --> 0:12:23.800 them phones for safety and access to you, by and large, 0:12:23.880 --> 0:12:26.199 but not to everything else in the world out there 0:12:26.240 --> 0:12:30.440 that they're literally being guinea pigs for being experimented on. 0:12:30.600 --> 0:12:32.560 As to what the effects are, we don't know the 0:12:32.600 --> 0:12:36.600 effects yet because there's not been a generation brought up 0:12:36.640 --> 0:12:39.120 under this culture. So I just appreciate you there and 0:12:39.520 --> 0:12:42.959 want to echo again the regulation part of this, and 0:12:43.000 --> 0:12:45.720 that we as parents also are modeling, you know, to 0:12:45.760 --> 0:12:47.760 our children and those who are looking after us, what 0:12:47.800 --> 0:12:50.160 it's like to be responsible with the devices. 0:12:50.760 --> 0:12:53.480 And I am joining you in that middle school struggle, Andrew. 0:12:53.520 --> 0:12:55.800 I also have an eleven year old and holding off 0:12:55.880 --> 0:12:58.040 on a phone for as long as we possibly can. 0:12:58.400 --> 0:13:00.240 But it is really hard, right like when all of 0:13:00.280 --> 0:13:02.000 the friends have and it's like, oh, this makes me 0:13:02.040 --> 0:13:04.840 feel disconnected, but you know, knowing what I know, I 0:13:04.840 --> 0:13:06.719 feel like I am trying to hold off as much 0:13:06.760 --> 0:13:07.880 as long as I can. 0:13:08.600 --> 0:13:13.440 And friends, I want to ask for the parents who 0:13:13.559 --> 0:13:18.839 have children who are battling cell phone addictions and are 0:13:18.920 --> 0:13:22.880 afraid to take away devices because they're concerned. Maybe it 0:13:22.880 --> 0:13:25.640 wouldn't be at this level, but they're afraid of the 0:13:25.679 --> 0:13:28.520 type of destruction or the ways they engage, you know, 0:13:28.600 --> 0:13:31.480 their children around devices. They maybe even feel some guilt, 0:13:31.480 --> 0:13:33.240 Doctor Joy, like, how can I take away the thing 0:13:33.320 --> 0:13:34.120 that I gave. 0:13:34.040 --> 0:13:36.520 To you that you're now relying upon. 0:13:36.600 --> 0:13:38.800 What is some advice that you have for parents who 0:13:38.840 --> 0:13:41.360 are figuring out how to wean their kids off of 0:13:41.400 --> 0:13:43.480 a device where the reliance on it now may be 0:13:43.520 --> 0:13:44.320 a little too heavy. 0:13:45.400 --> 0:13:47.520 Yeah, I think it is really important to get a 0:13:47.559 --> 0:13:51.280 professional involved, because as we are using this addiction language, 0:13:51.320 --> 0:13:53.400 you know, like we if we are not trained, we 0:13:53.440 --> 0:13:56.520 don't just stage interventions for people in our lives who 0:13:56.559 --> 0:13:58.480 are addicted to other things, right, And so we need 0:13:58.520 --> 0:14:01.440 to bring in trained professor about how do we talk 0:14:01.480 --> 0:14:04.920 with our young people about these devices and what are 0:14:04.920 --> 0:14:07.880 the steps to actually wean them, so to speak, from 0:14:07.920 --> 0:14:10.800 these devices. I don't think for most people, cold turkey 0:14:11.320 --> 0:14:13.320 is like you don't do that with other substances, and 0:14:13.360 --> 0:14:15.640 so with a device you probably would not do that 0:14:15.880 --> 0:14:18.800 as well. But I also think it's important for us 0:14:18.800 --> 0:14:21.840 to be able to apologize and say like, hey, you know, 0:14:22.400 --> 0:14:25.120 I gave you this device and I thought that it 0:14:25.240 --> 0:14:27.560 was fine. But the more I learn and the more 0:14:27.600 --> 0:14:30.040 I'm reading and the more things I see, I think 0:14:30.040 --> 0:14:32.240 that this may be an issue for us. And I 0:14:32.280 --> 0:14:34.800 want to backtrack, right, like it's okay to say oops, 0:14:34.840 --> 0:14:37.520 I messed up, and again that's great modeling for the 0:14:37.560 --> 0:14:39.400 young people in our lives that we can always go 0:14:39.480 --> 0:14:41.840 back on the decision and we learn more information, we 0:14:41.880 --> 0:14:44.360 can make a different decision. So I think getting a 0:14:44.400 --> 0:14:48.200 professional involved and also just acknowledging, like, hey, I know 0:14:48.320 --> 0:14:50.440 different things now and I want to make some different 0:14:50.440 --> 0:14:53.320 decisions for our family. But I also think, you know, 0:14:53.360 --> 0:14:55.880 to our earlier conversation, we have to look at our 0:14:55.920 --> 0:14:58.480 own interactions with our devices, right, So we can't say 0:14:58.840 --> 0:15:00.760 we want the young people to be their devices and 0:15:00.800 --> 0:15:02.880 then every time they see us we have our head 0:15:02.960 --> 0:15:05.160 buried in our phone, Like it doesn't work that way. 0:15:05.280 --> 0:15:10.120 Yeah, doctor Joy, I want to ask a personal therapy question. 0:15:10.120 --> 0:15:15.320 I'm trying to get into freebie, a freebie session. Yes, uh, 0:15:15.400 --> 0:15:18.800 you know what so much going on? Angela and I 0:15:18.800 --> 0:15:23.000 have certainly had some emotional episodes on this show where 0:15:23.160 --> 0:15:26.400 you know, things that we're going through personally, but also 0:15:26.480 --> 0:15:29.320 things that we're going through in this country. And I 0:15:29.360 --> 0:15:33.400 know sometimes for me, like the sadness seems so overwhelming, 0:15:33.640 --> 0:15:38.240 you know, it's just compounding we are I'm writing about 0:15:38.240 --> 0:15:43.240 this now, about navigating our own internal trauma while experiencing 0:15:43.360 --> 0:15:47.960 external trauma. I'm just curious your thoughts. You know, when 0:15:48.000 --> 0:15:51.120 you wake up and you face the monstrosities of the day, 0:15:51.680 --> 0:15:57.280 you are greeted by images of starving, murdered or starving 0:15:57.360 --> 0:16:01.600 or murdered children in the Congo and Palestine. In Sudan. 0:16:02.080 --> 0:16:05.040 You are greeted by images of children being ripped apart 0:16:05.080 --> 0:16:07.520 screaming for their parents right here in America because ice 0:16:07.680 --> 0:16:11.680 is you know, disappearing their parents. You're greeted with the 0:16:11.720 --> 0:16:16.080 images of animals being returned to overcrowded shelters because their 0:16:16.160 --> 0:16:18.640 humans got deported. And then there are the things in 0:16:18.680 --> 0:16:20.520 your own life. You know, maybe you had an ugly 0:16:20.560 --> 0:16:23.240 conversation with your mom, or maybe everybody in the family 0:16:23.280 --> 0:16:26.120 asked you to brow two hundred dollars that day. Maybe 0:16:26.120 --> 0:16:29.200 your mother is in chemo, you know, like real seriously 0:16:29.240 --> 0:16:33.440 heavy things. I have been employing different practices on how 0:16:33.440 --> 0:16:35.920 to stay afloat, on how to keep putting one foot 0:16:35.960 --> 0:16:37.720 in front of the next. But for a lot of 0:16:37.760 --> 0:16:40.640 people out there, it's not that they feel you know, 0:16:40.680 --> 0:16:43.600 it's not as dire like they feel suicidal. They might 0:16:43.600 --> 0:16:45.720 not feel like they need to be committed, but they 0:16:45.760 --> 0:16:49.360 just need help managing life. Right now, And I'm just 0:16:49.560 --> 0:16:52.840 curious any advice you can offer all of us who 0:16:52.880 --> 0:16:54.240 need help managing life right now. 0:16:55.120 --> 0:16:57.600 Yeah, I think that as much as possible, you really 0:16:57.640 --> 0:17:00.200 have to try to disconnect from those images, Tiffany. And 0:17:00.240 --> 0:17:02.880 I know it's hard given what y'all do, right, And 0:17:03.080 --> 0:17:05.879 my heart often bleeds for you because I know this 0:17:06.040 --> 0:17:08.040 is your work, right, Like, this is kind of what 0:17:08.119 --> 0:17:10.600 you have been called to do, and it often feels 0:17:10.600 --> 0:17:13.000 difficult to like, how do I not bear witness to 0:17:13.040 --> 0:17:15.640 all of these awful things that are happening. But when 0:17:15.640 --> 0:17:19.600 you think about like just human psychology, our brains cannot 0:17:19.680 --> 0:17:24.040 often detect whether something is an image like a storybook 0:17:24.119 --> 0:17:27.240 or a movie or a news clip versus you being 0:17:27.280 --> 0:17:30.280 there in real life. And so what that means is 0:17:30.320 --> 0:17:33.440 that you are often experiencing what we call vicarious trauma, 0:17:33.840 --> 0:17:37.280 which is as if you were in the middle of 0:17:37.320 --> 0:17:41.280 the war or on the scene of this awful thing happening. 0:17:41.640 --> 0:17:45.719 And so you can start to experience things like PTSD symptoms, 0:17:46.440 --> 0:17:50.720 you know, difficulty sleeping, difficulty regulating your emotions, and so 0:17:51.320 --> 0:17:53.600 I think it is really important, even though there are 0:17:53.640 --> 0:17:57.280 so many awful things happening, even if you read about 0:17:57.359 --> 0:18:00.960 things that is a little less activating for us than 0:18:01.480 --> 0:18:04.800 watching images, because the images really do stay with us. 0:18:05.080 --> 0:18:07.640 And so I think as much as possible, really disconnecting 0:18:07.640 --> 0:18:11.960 from images, not watching triggering videos again, making sure that 0:18:12.000 --> 0:18:14.919 you're paying attention to your sleep, and also, you know, 0:18:15.040 --> 0:18:17.840 infusing your life with other things that you are grateful for, 0:18:18.040 --> 0:18:21.320 right so, you know, maybe spending time with your animals 0:18:21.440 --> 0:18:24.199 or with family members you love, or taking girls trips 0:18:24.320 --> 0:18:26.680 or you know, what kinds of things can you add 0:18:26.720 --> 0:18:29.439 as a buffer, because your life can't be all this, 0:18:30.000 --> 0:18:32.440 right Like, even though it is incredibly important and your 0:18:32.480 --> 0:18:35.480 work is so important, it can't be everything. You also 0:18:35.560 --> 0:18:38.119 have to build a life around those things as well. 0:18:38.560 --> 0:19:00.840 Yeah, free Well, speaking of trauma, Angela. 0:18:51.560 --> 0:18:54.199 So on this doctor Joy, you mentioned it when you 0:18:54.440 --> 0:18:58.320 talked about kind of the articles are reading and vicarious trauma. 0:18:58.480 --> 0:19:01.359 There's also some epide genetic trauma that we have, the 0:19:01.440 --> 0:19:05.159 things that we carry in our physical bodies ancestrally. 0:19:05.040 --> 0:19:07.560 That sometimes it just feels like white folks don't understand. 0:19:08.000 --> 0:19:12.000 So on that there is a moment that Serena Williams 0:19:12.000 --> 0:19:16.120 had recently in her on her hotel, and she brought 0:19:16.200 --> 0:19:19.159 us into that if we can roll that clip, all right. 0:19:19.040 --> 0:19:25.440 Everyone, how do we feel about cotton as decoration? Personally? 0:19:25.480 --> 0:19:27.359 For me, it doesn't feel great. 0:19:29.880 --> 0:19:33.440 So actually it feels like no polish. 0:19:33.240 --> 0:19:34.680 Means for cotton natural. 0:19:36.960 --> 0:19:40.000 So before you get to this, I want to play 0:19:40.080 --> 0:19:43.560 a clip from Megan Kelly where she responded very cluelessly 0:19:44.200 --> 0:19:46.439 to what it means to have ancestral trauma. 0:19:47.520 --> 0:19:51.719 Serena Williams is in the news. Why because she was 0:19:51.800 --> 0:19:56.280 in New York to support her friend Kim Kardashian with 0:19:56.359 --> 0:20:00.240 some things she's doing with Nike, and Serena will Siams 0:20:00.320 --> 0:20:03.159 was in town to attend to it. And she's in 0:20:03.280 --> 0:20:05.960 some hotel. We do not know which hotel she was staying, 0:20:06.000 --> 0:20:10.000 and she did not publicize that. But Serena Williams, who 0:20:10.080 --> 0:20:15.720 is one of the richest Americans alive, was triggered. 0:20:15.280 --> 0:20:16.119 By something Maureen. 0:20:16.200 --> 0:20:18.560 And so at the end of that video, she's plucked 0:20:18.560 --> 0:20:21.080 one of the cotton balls off of the plant and 0:20:21.119 --> 0:20:24.159 she's using it to buff her nails, and then she 0:20:24.160 --> 0:20:26.640 she does the hand gesture of like ew, like where 0:20:26.680 --> 0:20:29.760 you shake your hands like eh, gross, and she drops it. Now, 0:20:29.800 --> 0:20:32.480 Serena Williams is triggered by cotton. 0:20:33.000 --> 0:20:34.359 I guess because. 0:20:34.119 --> 0:20:36.600 It used to be picked by slaves, and she's a 0:20:36.600 --> 0:20:37.360 black American. 0:20:38.359 --> 0:20:39.400 It's twenty twenty five. 0:20:39.880 --> 0:20:43.439 Serena Williams is estimated by Forbes to be worth three 0:20:43.520 --> 0:20:47.120 hundred and fifty million dollars. She's married to a very, 0:20:47.240 --> 0:20:50.080 very rich man too. She hung up her racket in 0:20:50.080 --> 0:20:52.040 twenty twenty two, ending a career in which she earned 0:20:52.080 --> 0:20:56.640 ninety five million in prize money, more prize money than 0:20:56.760 --> 0:21:01.439 any female athlete in history. She has endorsement deals to 0:21:01.480 --> 0:21:04.520 this day with more than a dozen brands. She's active 0:21:04.560 --> 0:21:08.280 as an investor in her own venture capital firm. She's 0:21:08.320 --> 0:21:12.000 got a licensing deal with a beauty line. She's launched 0:21:12.040 --> 0:21:15.359 a multimedia company. She owns part of the Miami Dolphins. 0:21:15.800 --> 0:21:20.119 But she is an oppressed direct descendant of slaves. I guess, 0:21:20.160 --> 0:21:23.400 And that's how she sees herself to this day, because 0:21:23.480 --> 0:21:25.360 I guess. Generational trauma. 0:21:25.880 --> 0:21:29.280 Okay, so I want to play that for a couple reasons. 0:21:29.320 --> 0:21:31.199 Let me just tell you two points that triggered me. 0:21:32.520 --> 0:21:35.359 She said she was with her friend Kim Kardashian to 0:21:35.560 --> 0:21:40.480 attend to it, not to attend the event, to attend 0:21:40.520 --> 0:21:43.560 to it, which also I don't even know if Megan 0:21:43.680 --> 0:21:47.880 understands that she is leaning into where her. 0:21:47.760 --> 0:21:50.040 Ancestors probably were to attend to it. 0:21:50.119 --> 0:21:53.040 And then she said that Serena Williams one of the 0:21:53.080 --> 0:21:57.360 most accomplished athletes of our time, not black women athletes, 0:21:57.359 --> 0:22:00.159 not black athletes, one of the most accomplished athletes of 0:22:00.160 --> 0:22:04.520 our time. One prize money. When else did we hear 0:22:04.600 --> 0:22:07.679 prize money, y'all? When they had the Battle Royals and 0:22:07.720 --> 0:22:12.119 they made enslave people fight. So she's leaning into some 0:22:12.200 --> 0:22:14.280 of her own ancestral nonsense. 0:22:14.280 --> 0:22:15.480 So yes, I'm triggered. 0:22:15.720 --> 0:22:17.320 I actually I want to I want to tell you 0:22:17.359 --> 0:22:18.919 guys this really quick, and then I am gonna yo, 0:22:19.000 --> 0:22:23.360 doctor Joy. When I see cotton fields, I get nauseous. 0:22:24.520 --> 0:22:26.800 I get nauseous. Every time I called my mom and 0:22:26.840 --> 0:22:30.080 I was like, Mommy, what happens to you when you 0:22:30.160 --> 0:22:32.960 see cotton fields? And she said it makes me sick. 0:22:33.960 --> 0:22:36.879 There was an ancestor that we have, they said, was 0:22:37.000 --> 0:22:38.480 allergic to cotton. 0:22:38.920 --> 0:22:41.160 These are not things that you make up. 0:22:41.240 --> 0:22:46.120 This is there is something called epigenetics that Megan should google. 0:22:47.040 --> 0:22:49.320 These are things that we actually carry in our bloodline. 0:22:49.359 --> 0:22:52.800 So imagine if you are a descendant of an enslaved person, 0:22:52.840 --> 0:22:53.640 You actually. 0:22:53.400 --> 0:22:55.520 Do carry some of that trauma. 0:22:55.800 --> 0:22:58.480 We also carry the you know, the victory, the resilience, 0:22:58.480 --> 0:22:59.960 but we do carry that trauma anyway. 0:23:00.440 --> 0:23:02.160 I just wanted to point that out. The cotton one 0:23:02.200 --> 0:23:04.720 particularly pricked me because I know my experience with cotton. 0:23:05.440 --> 0:23:09.280 Yeah, I was really struck by how like trite she was, 0:23:09.640 --> 0:23:12.720 as if like, this couldn't possibly be an issue for 0:23:12.880 --> 0:23:16.960 Serena because money and wealth does not act as a 0:23:17.000 --> 0:23:21.840 buffer against racism and oppression, especially for somebody like Serena 0:23:21.880 --> 0:23:24.879 who has been so forthcoming about almost dying in the 0:23:24.880 --> 0:23:28.879 hospital because of medical discrimination, right, and so you know, 0:23:29.000 --> 0:23:32.440 that doesn't buffer her from experiences related to the things 0:23:32.480 --> 0:23:35.400 that her ancestors that have experienced the things she's likely 0:23:35.480 --> 0:23:38.240 learned and read about and maybe had family talk with 0:23:38.280 --> 0:23:41.040 her about, you know. So I think it's a very 0:23:42.160 --> 0:23:45.320 natural response, Like and I thought that, like the designer 0:23:45.359 --> 0:23:48.440 world had kind of come further along than to decorate 0:23:48.480 --> 0:23:51.400 with complaints anymore. Like it feels a bit outdated anyway, 0:23:51.800 --> 0:23:54.360 But of course I think a lot of us react 0:23:54.440 --> 0:23:57.200 to that because it's just so jarring, right, and it 0:23:57.920 --> 0:24:00.880 instantly puts us in the minds of what our ancestors 0:24:00.920 --> 0:24:03.440 had to do to survive, and so I was really 0:24:03.480 --> 0:24:05.720 strugg though not because this is kind of who Megan 0:24:05.840 --> 0:24:09.120 Kelly is and how she shows up right, but really 0:24:09.119 --> 0:24:11.520 struck by the way she kind of, you know, brushed 0:24:11.520 --> 0:24:15.000 it off, as if this reaction was being dramatic, and 0:24:15.040 --> 0:24:18.040 because Serena is wealthy, she should not react this way. 0:24:21.320 --> 0:24:24.639 I wish I was less connected to these, but I 0:24:24.680 --> 0:24:27.400 see them. You know, I'm in Florida. I'm in North Florida. 0:24:27.840 --> 0:24:31.000 My house is thirty minutes from South Georgia over the 0:24:32.480 --> 0:24:36.440 state line. In fact, one of the most regrettable things 0:24:36.480 --> 0:24:39.080 that my mom, who listens faithfully, is we'll probably hear 0:24:39.119 --> 0:24:40.720 this for the first time. But one of the reasons 0:24:40.760 --> 0:24:42.560 I have a hard time driving to her house and 0:24:42.640 --> 0:24:44.560 always want her to come to mind is because you 0:24:45.160 --> 0:24:49.280 spend a significant amount of the drive passing by these 0:24:49.280 --> 0:24:53.119 cotton fields that are still bloom right. I mean, you 0:24:53.160 --> 0:24:55.719 go in the right season, it's just a sea of white, 0:24:56.520 --> 0:25:00.680 and it bothers me so badly, means to my space. 0:25:00.720 --> 0:25:02.879 I mean, my kids have caught me crying, you know, 0:25:03.080 --> 0:25:05.320 sometimes when they're in the backseat and we're driving through this, 0:25:05.359 --> 0:25:08.160 and I'm thinking about my grandparents, and you know, my 0:25:08.160 --> 0:25:12.240 mom's parents who were actually born en slay into slavery. 0:25:13.840 --> 0:25:17.879 And you wouldn't think that given our ages, but my grandpa, 0:25:18.000 --> 0:25:20.760 my mom's parents were much older than my father's parents. 0:25:21.680 --> 0:25:25.640 My mom's the the the what seventeenth child of her parents, 0:25:25.800 --> 0:25:29.480 so her mother was laid into early fifty fifty one. 0:25:29.560 --> 0:25:32.440 I think it was when my mother came. So it was, 0:25:32.640 --> 0:25:37.160 it was, it is. It's everywhere you go to a gala, 0:25:37.280 --> 0:25:39.600 you go to a wedding, you go into a hotel. 0:25:40.040 --> 0:25:42.480 This is the decoration of choice. It hasn't always been 0:25:42.520 --> 0:25:44.359 this way, but it's like it's made it as a revival, 0:25:44.960 --> 0:25:48.000 and you know, a lot of it for us, I 0:25:48.040 --> 0:25:49.760 think a lot of black folks in the South is 0:25:50.359 --> 0:25:56.160 we have to steal ourselves nearly every day. And it's 0:25:56.160 --> 0:25:58.920 probably true for black people everywhere, but I know, particularly here, 0:25:58.960 --> 0:26:02.440 you literally are sitting desk to desk with someone who 0:26:02.480 --> 0:26:05.480 you've read their Facebook posts and you know they don't 0:26:05.560 --> 0:26:07.919 like you, not you the person, but your people who 0:26:08.000 --> 0:26:11.040 you are. They resent you in every way, shape or form. 0:26:11.240 --> 0:26:14.240 But yet you generate these niceties, these exchanges that you 0:26:14.320 --> 0:26:17.920 have to have compulsory almost you know, every single day. 0:26:18.240 --> 0:26:21.480 So this trauma piece is really what Megan's simple minded. 0:26:21.560 --> 0:26:24.480 I don't expect her to understand anything as complex as 0:26:24.480 --> 0:26:28.000 generational trauma. In fact, where she comes from is probably 0:26:28.080 --> 0:26:32.240 the belief that money solves all problems. And that ought 0:26:32.240 --> 0:26:35.399 to tell you enough about the type of type of 0:26:35.400 --> 0:26:37.720 stock that she comes from. But for the rest of us, 0:26:37.720 --> 0:26:40.960 we can be as wealthy, as situated, as positioned as 0:26:41.040 --> 0:26:44.680 anything and still be visited. And the truth of it 0:26:44.760 --> 0:26:48.720 is is they know what they are visiting upon us. 0:26:49.000 --> 0:26:50.960 They know when they put that Confederate flag up in 0:26:51.000 --> 0:26:55.480 the back of the truck driving and all through the city, 0:26:55.520 --> 0:26:58.640 they know what they're symbolizing to us. So the feigning 0:26:58.680 --> 0:27:03.680 of ignorance is also extremely offensive because they act like 0:27:03.720 --> 0:27:06.159 they don't know with the message that they're sending you. 0:27:06.200 --> 0:27:09.200 And so I appreciated your feedback on that. And if 0:27:09.240 --> 0:27:11.359 there are others for those of us who live this 0:27:11.440 --> 0:27:16.359 thing every day, where this is decoration common place, like 0:27:17.080 --> 0:27:21.919 the navigating of that without losing your damn mind. 0:27:21.359 --> 0:27:23.280 Doctor Joey, I wanted to because Angela and I were 0:27:23.280 --> 0:27:29.679 having this discussion. So first off, the idea of intergenerational trauma. 0:27:29.960 --> 0:27:32.240 It's actually, as I'm sure you know, being in this 0:27:32.359 --> 0:27:35.440 your profession, a newly explored study, we're only five to 0:27:35.520 --> 0:27:39.760 six generations from the horrors of enslavement. However, the psychological 0:27:40.080 --> 0:27:42.880 and emotional injuries we inherited, as Angela just talked about, 0:27:42.920 --> 0:27:45.720 as Andrew just spoke about, past two generations, and the 0:27:45.760 --> 0:27:48.439 impact it can have on us is even on a 0:27:48.480 --> 0:27:53.160 molecular level, waiting our biology and influencing our loarnged behaviors. 0:27:53.160 --> 0:27:57.520 Research from the NIH, the National Institute of Health, suggests 0:27:57.520 --> 0:28:01.280 that trauma can affect a person's DNA and potentially leave 0:28:01.359 --> 0:28:05.120 an imprint on the health of future generations far removed 0:28:05.160 --> 0:28:08.879 from the traumatic event itself. So trauma around this in 0:28:08.920 --> 0:28:11.840 some way is in our genetic code. But where Angela 0:28:11.920 --> 0:28:14.399 and I differed is we discussed like should we play 0:28:15.160 --> 0:28:20.760 the Megan Kelly portion of this? And so Angela the 0:28:20.800 --> 0:28:23.360 point was, I think people want to know, like what 0:28:23.400 --> 0:28:26.119 do you say when someone says this kind of ridiculous 0:28:26.160 --> 0:28:29.040 and ignorance, Like how do you respond? And my thought 0:28:29.160 --> 0:28:31.560 is even to see her face and to hear her 0:28:31.640 --> 0:28:35.600 voice is triggering. You know, I'm more of the mind 0:28:35.880 --> 0:28:38.480 of you know, I don't want to promote her podcast 0:28:39.000 --> 0:28:41.120 or what she has to say, and I don't want 0:28:41.160 --> 0:28:44.719 to give her that attention. I think this is an 0:28:44.760 --> 0:28:47.400 interesting question for you because as black people, we are 0:28:47.440 --> 0:28:49.840 so often put in that position where we got point 0:28:49.920 --> 0:28:52.680 two seconds to decide. So I know, and I know 0:28:52.720 --> 0:28:55.160 Angela has been where you're in a space where somebody 0:28:55.200 --> 0:28:57.520 has said something to you and you have to decide. 0:28:57.600 --> 0:29:00.880 Am I going to just elevate past this and ignore you? 0:29:01.480 --> 0:29:03.800 Or am I about to go spider monkey on your 0:29:03.840 --> 0:29:07.120 ass and give you the righteous tongue lashing that you deserve. 0:29:07.560 --> 0:29:10.400 Sometimes I don't make the right choice. Sometimes I you know, 0:29:10.520 --> 0:29:13.400 I'm gonna go for I got time today. Other Times 0:29:13.440 --> 0:29:16.160 I try to elevate above it. So I told angel 0:29:16.200 --> 0:29:17.640 I'm like, let's play it so then we can at 0:29:17.720 --> 0:29:20.920 least have a discussion about, like should we what kind 0:29:20.920 --> 0:29:22.880 of attention we should give these things for the people 0:29:23.000 --> 0:29:24.560 navigating those decisions. 0:29:25.080 --> 0:29:26.520 I'm curious what doctor Joy. 0:29:26.600 --> 0:29:28.840 Was saying to do if it maybe that was in 0:29:28.920 --> 0:29:31.800 your face saying that, like how do you respond? 0:29:32.520 --> 0:29:32.720 Now? 0:29:32.760 --> 0:29:36.280 This is Tip's second free point of advice, But doctor Jordan, 0:29:36.280 --> 0:29:36.880 we would love. 0:29:36.760 --> 0:29:37.120 To hear it. 0:29:38.840 --> 0:29:41.840 That's a hard one because I feel like you tiff, 0:29:41.960 --> 0:29:44.800 like it could go either way, right, depending on the 0:29:44.880 --> 0:29:46.840 kind of day you're having. And I think that that's 0:29:46.840 --> 0:29:49.960 the point that there are always so many things that 0:29:50.040 --> 0:29:52.480 we are trying to calculate, right like who else is here? 0:29:52.840 --> 0:29:55.040 Why am I in this experience? Who else is gonna 0:29:55.080 --> 0:29:57.760 be seeing? This is somebody filming? Right Like, they're all 0:29:57.800 --> 0:30:00.760 these decisions we're trying to calculate within two seconds, like 0:30:00.840 --> 0:30:02.760 you mentioned. And so I don't know that there is 0:30:02.840 --> 0:30:05.080 necessarily a right way. It is just what you choose 0:30:05.120 --> 0:30:07.040 at the moment. Right, So if you feel like, you 0:30:07.080 --> 0:30:08.920 know what, I don't even have time for this today. 0:30:09.120 --> 0:30:11.120 I don't think it's wrong to just say, Okay, this 0:30:11.240 --> 0:30:13.360 is ignorant, I'm not even going to give this any attention. 0:30:13.720 --> 0:30:15.600 But I also think that it is okay to put 0:30:15.600 --> 0:30:18.200 people in their place sometimes if you feel like that 0:30:18.360 --> 0:30:20.480 is something that you want to do now and to 0:30:20.560 --> 0:30:23.120 think about like the consequences, right, Like, well, the consequences 0:30:23.160 --> 0:30:26.240 be more detrimental than you just moving on, But sometimes 0:30:26.240 --> 0:30:27.760 you just got to let folks know. And so I 0:30:27.800 --> 0:30:31.160 don't think that it is a wrong way to do anything. 0:30:31.200 --> 0:30:32.760 I think it really is about what do you have 0:30:32.840 --> 0:30:35.720 the bandwidth for that day? And thinking about okay, what 0:30:35.800 --> 0:30:37.640 could be the potential consequences of this? 0:30:37.960 --> 0:30:40.000 Yeah? 0:30:39.800 --> 0:30:44.120 Yeah, I think our audience when we play these things, 0:30:44.120 --> 0:30:45.760 I think our audience actually likes it. 0:30:45.800 --> 0:30:46.880 I think our audience likes to. 0:30:46.840 --> 0:30:50.000 Hear, you know, Angelo's response to some of these people, 0:30:50.000 --> 0:30:51.640 because I think there are probably people all across the 0:30:51.640 --> 0:30:53.960 country who are like, I'm going to respond like that, 0:30:55.120 --> 0:30:56.200 so you know, I. 0:30:56.440 --> 0:30:59.600 Think people Yeah, sorry, Jeff, go ahead. 0:31:00.720 --> 0:31:03.040 No, I didn't mean to do that, because we heard 0:31:03.080 --> 0:31:05.240 about that on a survey too. I just it just 0:31:05.280 --> 0:31:08.600 sparked something in me, just to say people have to 0:31:08.680 --> 0:31:12.360 deal with these micro and macro aggressions every single day 0:31:12.400 --> 0:31:13.880 and are just like, I want the tools. 0:31:13.920 --> 0:31:14.720 What do I say? 0:31:15.200 --> 0:31:17.960 And I think in this moment, all we can hope 0:31:17.960 --> 0:31:20.680 for is that at some point people will find their 0:31:20.720 --> 0:31:23.880 compassion for humanity. And so if they have been so 0:31:24.040 --> 0:31:27.880 closed minded, so closed off, so restricted by who, by 0:31:27.880 --> 0:31:30.120 the company they keep, by the books they read, by 0:31:30.160 --> 0:31:32.959 the shows they listen to, by the people they entertain, 0:31:33.240 --> 0:31:35.440 that allow us to bring you into our experience. 0:31:35.800 --> 0:31:36.880 I got an issue with cotton. 0:31:36.960 --> 0:31:40.880 So does Andrew right, Like that's not happenstand, we don't know, Serena, 0:31:41.280 --> 0:31:43.120 you know, like that's not happenstance. 0:31:43.440 --> 0:31:43.840 I don't know. 0:31:43.960 --> 0:31:44.160 Tip. 0:31:44.320 --> 0:31:46.240 You didn't say if you have one or not. Doctor Joy, 0:31:46.240 --> 0:31:47.400 I don't know if you have one or not. 0:31:47.760 --> 0:31:50.360 But there are some folks that have visceral reactions to 0:31:50.440 --> 0:31:53.560 seeing certain types of crops being in certain parts of 0:31:53.560 --> 0:31:56.680 the country, you know, talking to a person with a 0:31:56.680 --> 0:32:00.800 certain type of accent. It just just can cause different issues. 0:32:00.880 --> 0:32:03.800 And so I see it as a teachable moment, even 0:32:03.800 --> 0:32:06.760 when it is ignorant. I would love to wipe the 0:32:06.800 --> 0:32:09.800 smug look off a face. But if I can do 0:32:09.880 --> 0:32:11.840 that with facts and not hands, I would take that 0:32:11.880 --> 0:32:12.360 any day. 0:32:12.600 --> 0:32:14.560 Yeah, I mean I do. I do have. 0:32:14.840 --> 0:32:17.480 I carry generational trauma in different ways. 0:32:17.480 --> 0:32:18.280 I think we all do. 0:32:19.120 --> 0:32:19.880 I think. 0:32:21.120 --> 0:32:23.640 Even who we are in life is so often. 0:32:23.880 --> 0:32:27.520 I interviewed this woman this week from my book, and 0:32:27.640 --> 0:32:31.360 she talks about she was eight years old and saw 0:32:31.400 --> 0:32:34.680 a woman, a black woman in the black section of 0:32:34.680 --> 0:32:38.360 the hospital die, an elderly woman who's gasping for air, 0:32:38.400 --> 0:32:40.000 and none of the doctors would treat her because they 0:32:40.040 --> 0:32:42.080 had to see the white patients first. And she decided, 0:32:42.120 --> 0:32:44.040 at eight years old she was going to become a doctor, 0:32:44.480 --> 0:32:47.320 and it made me. I'm writing about probing ourselves and 0:32:47.360 --> 0:32:50.959 even our aspirations in life. Even who we become is 0:32:51.000 --> 0:32:54.120 in response to, or determined by some level of white 0:32:54.160 --> 0:32:57.080 supremacy in this life. I write about this Andrew on 0:32:57.120 --> 0:33:00.160 the heels of writing about our conversation we had about imagination, 0:33:01.200 --> 0:33:04.160 and so yes, I think we are all impacted by it, 0:33:05.200 --> 0:33:08.520 and it can weigh weigh me down. And so I 0:33:08.720 --> 0:33:12.120 dare to imagine who am I and what does my 0:33:12.200 --> 0:33:14.800 life look like? We're white people not at the center. 0:33:14.880 --> 0:33:17.720 Even when I did my show on MSNBC. You know, 0:33:17.760 --> 0:33:20.000 black older black folks always pull me aside, like babe, 0:33:20.040 --> 0:33:23.000 we worried about you, like be careful. But I dare 0:33:23.120 --> 0:33:26.400 to imagine what would this show be if I got 0:33:26.520 --> 0:33:29.040 to be free, if I got to speak freely, if 0:33:29.080 --> 0:33:31.000 I got to make cultural references the same way to 0:33:31.040 --> 0:33:33.200 white folks get to make cultural references. Maybe I don't 0:33:33.200 --> 0:33:34.800 get theirs, they don't get mine. If you ain't get 0:33:34.800 --> 0:33:37.160 it, it wasn't for you to get you know, who would 0:33:37.200 --> 0:33:40.960 we be if we got to talk in our own vernacular? 0:33:41.000 --> 0:33:43.360 It didn't have the code switch for their comfort. So 0:33:44.160 --> 0:33:46.080 and I think that's kind of the point for this 0:33:46.280 --> 0:33:48.920 conversation I'll tell you about later, doctor Joy that Andrew 0:33:49.000 --> 0:33:51.440 was making at one point saying that in some ways 0:33:51.480 --> 0:33:55.800 white folks have taken our imagination and I'm daring to 0:33:55.960 --> 0:33:57.760 reclaim that at least. 0:33:58.760 --> 0:34:01.640 And parts because of the way we have to calculate 0:34:02.320 --> 0:34:04.520 our movements. I mean, you you mentioned this in part 0:34:04.560 --> 0:34:08.880 doc and your response just who's who's watching? What calculus 0:34:08.920 --> 0:34:13.120 must you include around consequence for you doing that thing? 0:34:13.520 --> 0:34:17.440 And I talk about it a lot in the in 0:34:17.480 --> 0:34:20.319 the form of voting. How you know, Obama didn't become 0:34:20.360 --> 0:34:21.640 a thing until a lot of us in this South 0:34:21.680 --> 0:34:23.799 saw that white people were willing to get behind him 0:34:23.960 --> 0:34:26.920 and and huge fashion, and it changed the math. It's 0:34:26.960 --> 0:34:28.520 not because we didn't like him and didn't want to 0:34:28.520 --> 0:34:32.560 support him, but we're also we also calculate, and we 0:34:32.600 --> 0:34:34.879 don't want to throw votes away because we know how 0:34:34.920 --> 0:34:37.640 hard thought they are, and and and we have to 0:34:37.680 --> 0:34:41.520 negotiate our power from from from moment to moment, election 0:34:41.640 --> 0:34:45.160 to election. But I my agitation a lot of times, 0:34:45.280 --> 0:34:48.239 certainly here in the South, is that mostly and I 0:34:48.280 --> 0:34:51.080 find this a lot with conversations with white men, is 0:34:51.120 --> 0:34:55.799 They use a lot of these painful instances in some 0:34:55.880 --> 0:35:00.839 of these sort of gas lit yuh experiences they want 0:35:00.840 --> 0:35:03.040 to call up, like black on black crime and why 0:35:03.080 --> 0:35:05.759 isn't that there aren't marches when when a black You know, 0:35:06.280 --> 0:35:08.760 these sort of things that I find to be really 0:35:08.920 --> 0:35:12.440 intended to be provocative to sort of get their opinion 0:35:12.480 --> 0:35:17.719 out there under the guise of curiosity. And it ain't curious. 0:35:17.840 --> 0:35:21.920 It's largely judgmental. It's mostly meant to poke and mostly 0:35:22.000 --> 0:35:25.120 meant to try to serve as it an opportunity for 0:35:25.160 --> 0:35:28.080 them to indoctrina you and to believe in a subscribing 0:35:28.120 --> 0:35:29.759 to what it is that that that they believe in, 0:35:29.800 --> 0:35:32.759 not really hearing the fact that I don't say, why 0:35:32.760 --> 0:35:34.479 don't white crime even though that's the majority of crimes 0:35:34.480 --> 0:35:36.319 that take place in this country. No one says why 0:35:36.360 --> 0:35:40.560 don't white crime? Not news, not people, So why don't 0:35:40.600 --> 0:35:41.000 we say that? 0:35:41.080 --> 0:35:41.239 Right? 0:35:41.280 --> 0:35:43.760 I could return that, but I always find I often 0:35:43.800 --> 0:35:47.320 find that it's meant to poke, to pride, to provoke, 0:35:48.200 --> 0:35:51.440 And so if I if I deny you a response, 0:35:52.160 --> 0:35:55.360 it's because I'm not going to entertain you. My choice 0:35:55.360 --> 0:35:56.160 is not to entertain you. 0:35:56.239 --> 0:36:03.600 That's it. You have time about that? 0:36:03.880 --> 0:36:06.000 Why, like, listen, if you want to book a session 0:36:06.000 --> 0:36:07.920 with me, the book a session with me? 0:36:08.440 --> 0:36:12.759 But I'm not hearing any question. Wait and she like, 0:36:12.880 --> 0:36:14.960 am my roster fold? So y'all go way on the 0:36:14.960 --> 0:36:19.480 wait list. I love it, she said, She said, do 0:36:19.520 --> 0:36:20.520 you have any thoughts about this? 0:36:20.680 --> 0:36:25.200 I dress said about. 0:36:23.600 --> 0:36:25.920 I did, but I did want to go back to 0:36:26.120 --> 0:36:31.760 your your comment Tiffany around like how imagination gets stolen? 0:36:32.560 --> 0:36:34.719 And I think about this a lot as a parent, right, 0:36:34.840 --> 0:36:37.560 like how do I create a world from my kids 0:36:37.600 --> 0:36:39.680 where they can just be who they are? But the 0:36:39.719 --> 0:36:41.880 truth is that they're black boys, and so there is 0:36:41.920 --> 0:36:45.439 some reality that I have to infuse and it does 0:36:45.560 --> 0:36:48.080 often make me feel bad in some ways that I 0:36:48.120 --> 0:36:52.120 am like stripping this imagination from them. But I also, 0:36:52.280 --> 0:36:54.319 like I said, I think that's why spaces like this 0:36:54.400 --> 0:36:56.799 are important, right, that you don't have to do the 0:36:56.800 --> 0:36:59.399 code switching in their cultural references, that you can make 0:36:59.440 --> 0:37:02.520 that are ore and that we get it right because 0:37:02.520 --> 0:37:05.120 it is a spaceman for us, you know. So I 0:37:05.120 --> 0:37:07.839 think that that is something really important to highlight, that 0:37:07.880 --> 0:37:10.759 we can also create our own spaces where there is 0:37:10.840 --> 0:37:13.319 maybe more an ability to play with our imagination. 0:37:14.080 --> 0:37:15.400 Yeah, I love that. 0:37:24.400 --> 0:37:27.920 We had an interesting conversation as well. We were broadcasting 0:37:27.960 --> 0:37:31.200 live from the Congressional Black Cocus Foundation's Annual Legislative Conference 0:37:31.640 --> 0:37:36.239 and Roland Martin, our brother Rowe uncle Roe joined us 0:37:36.400 --> 0:37:41.560 and he had some admonishing words about gen X. 0:37:42.239 --> 0:37:43.560 So you can take a listen to that. 0:37:43.960 --> 0:37:45.080 There were a group of people. 0:37:45.840 --> 0:37:49.760 They were the ones who sustained us from King's assassination 0:37:50.440 --> 0:37:54.439 to present day. They were the ones who knew who 0:37:54.480 --> 0:37:58.640 didn't vote. They did precinct walks, They showed up at 0:37:58.680 --> 0:38:02.400 city council, county govern meant state government. I guess my 0:38:02.520 --> 0:38:05.919 parents seventy eight, just like Eddie Rai, and we guess 0:38:05.960 --> 0:38:09.320 what those people are retiring or in some many cases 0:38:09.320 --> 0:38:12.920 they passed away. So there's a generation that did not 0:38:13.040 --> 0:38:14.120 replace those people. 0:38:14.320 --> 0:38:14.480 Yea. 0:38:14.680 --> 0:38:18.280 So what we've done is we've become so technical where 0:38:18.320 --> 0:38:23.360 we think that social media, text messchien, phone calls replaces 0:38:23.400 --> 0:38:27.239 that on the ground infrastructure. And that's what's missing if 0:38:27.280 --> 0:38:29.840 you go to place all around the country. That group, 0:38:30.640 --> 0:38:34.439 dudey gen X did not step up. 0:38:35.320 --> 0:38:39.719 So one of our viewers actually weighed in with their thoughts, 0:38:40.200 --> 0:38:43.000 and I think, you know, Roe's pointing around gen X, 0:38:43.120 --> 0:38:47.120 you know, not meeting the moment and maybe failing resonated 0:38:47.160 --> 0:38:49.440 with some people. One of our viewers took great offense 0:38:49.480 --> 0:38:53.080 to it, so he sent in a comment, I want 0:38:53.120 --> 0:38:55.240 you to take a listen. And on the other side, 0:38:55.440 --> 0:38:59.120 of course, Roe had time, and so Roe responded to 0:38:59.160 --> 0:39:01.680 the viewers, Well, let's first hear from the viewer. 0:39:02.440 --> 0:39:03.759 Greeting's native lampard. 0:39:04.000 --> 0:39:05.440 Hi, this is Keith from DC. 0:39:06.040 --> 0:39:06.600 What's going on? 0:39:06.680 --> 0:39:10.279 Andrew, Angela and Tiffany. This is a private message for 0:39:10.320 --> 0:39:10.880 you guys. 0:39:11.480 --> 0:39:13.480 I checked out your town hall the other day that 0:39:13.560 --> 0:39:16.600 you had with Roland Martin, and it was a statement 0:39:16.640 --> 0:39:20.520 that he made that really inflated me or inflamed them. 0:39:21.080 --> 0:39:23.080 Say it was a statement that he made that gen 0:39:23.320 --> 0:39:25.680 X failed us. Well, I have a problem with that 0:39:25.840 --> 0:39:31.680 because I'm a gen xer. You are gen xers. Roland 0:39:31.760 --> 0:39:35.040 himself is a gen xer. Wes Moore, the person you 0:39:35.080 --> 0:39:37.880 had on your town hall is a gener xer. Corey 0:39:37.920 --> 0:39:41.440 Booker who made that longest speech and whatever, is a 0:39:41.520 --> 0:39:42.080 gen xer. 0:39:42.520 --> 0:39:44.960 I participated in the two thousand and eight and twenty 0:39:45.040 --> 0:39:46.600 twelve bought. 0:39:46.320 --> 0:39:47.920 President Obama and Biden election. 0:39:48.560 --> 0:39:51.080 I particiate in every election thereof. 0:39:51.800 --> 0:39:55.200 I have camp famous, I have done the phone banks, 0:39:55.400 --> 0:39:57.200 I have replaced and removed signs. 0:39:58.080 --> 0:40:02.799 I've done don dore have participants participant in the elections 0:40:02.880 --> 0:40:05.439 from whenever I was able to do set up. I'm 0:40:05.440 --> 0:40:07.200 a gen xer and the fact that he said the 0:40:07.200 --> 0:40:09.440 gen X has failed us is an insult to me. 0:40:09.840 --> 0:40:12.960 And if Martin needs to reach out to me, y'all 0:40:13.040 --> 0:40:17.479 have my information again, this is Keith. I'm a gen xer. 0:40:18.080 --> 0:40:27.600 Put some respect on that name. Gen X fore a baby. 0:40:28.440 --> 0:40:31.560 If this is private by the time our audiences, we 0:40:31.600 --> 0:40:33.160 will blur his face. 0:40:34.320 --> 0:40:36.359 He put on a video, but we'll get clarity from him. 0:40:36.400 --> 0:40:37.080 So if you're. 0:40:37.040 --> 0:40:38.799 Watching videos all the time, but. 0:40:38.800 --> 0:40:39.759 He may not want that. 0:40:39.840 --> 0:40:42.160 So if you see his face clearly, then we reached 0:40:42.160 --> 0:40:44.800 out to him and got clarity. If we are blurring 0:40:44.840 --> 0:40:46.640 his face, we will cut out his name so people 0:40:46.719 --> 0:40:51.080 don't know, so that will explain whatever we'll we'll cut 0:40:51.080 --> 0:40:54.239 out all audio that references him. However, I did send 0:40:54.239 --> 0:40:57.880 this to Roland uh and Roro had time to respond. 0:40:57.880 --> 0:40:59.880 So let's take a listen to that, right, ro. 0:41:00.440 --> 0:41:03.239 Okay, listen up. I'm gonna need all your people who 0:41:03.320 --> 0:41:07.240 are caught up in your feelings about my comments regarding 0:41:07.360 --> 0:41:12.160 gen X to pay attention. I know that there are 0:41:12.280 --> 0:41:15.759 gen X people who have run for office, but I 0:41:15.800 --> 0:41:20.280 was very specific in my criticism. I was talking about 0:41:20.400 --> 0:41:25.640 the infrastructure that exist in order for us to turn 0:41:25.680 --> 0:41:29.839 out the vote. I'm talking about the people who were 0:41:29.920 --> 0:41:33.920 pre seen captains, who were block captains, the people who 0:41:33.920 --> 0:41:38.399 have been involved on the ground, the people who run 0:41:38.600 --> 0:41:43.200 NAACP chapters, the people who are running community organizations who 0:41:43.200 --> 0:41:47.960 are on the ground. Yes there are grassroots organizations. I'm 0:41:48.000 --> 0:41:52.280 talking about the people who work elections, who are poll workers. 0:41:52.640 --> 0:41:56.080 I'm saying that was this massive infrastructure, that it's not 0:41:56.160 --> 0:42:01.000 being replaced. It's a fact. Okay, So you planning, what 0:42:01.120 --> 0:42:05.600 you should be asking is where's the infrastructure. Not the 0:42:05.760 --> 0:42:09.520 running for office, but the regular ordinary people who do 0:42:09.680 --> 0:42:13.719 the work to drive our community engagement every single day. 0:42:14.080 --> 0:42:18.240 And I'm telling you all across black communities across the country, 0:42:18.880 --> 0:42:22.680 we're losing that because they are retiring or becoming ancestors. 0:42:23.360 --> 0:42:27.759 So don't get in your feelings, focus and fix the 0:42:27.840 --> 0:42:30.800 issue because that's our problem. 0:42:31.000 --> 0:42:31.160 Yo. 0:42:32.960 --> 0:42:35.480 Wait a minute, the fact that Roland got up in 0:42:35.520 --> 0:42:38.680 the morning and recorded this, that you could tell Roland 0:42:39.040 --> 0:42:44.280 just woke up. Then Okay, Tiffany was the provocatory. 0:42:47.520 --> 0:42:55.680 And whyonding? 0:42:57.040 --> 0:42:59.520 So Doc, who won? Who won the bat? 0:43:00.400 --> 0:43:00.760 Oh? 0:43:02.719 --> 0:43:06.320 Why have I get in? And how did I get it? Exactly? 0:43:07.560 --> 0:43:07.719 Well? 0:43:07.719 --> 0:43:10.400 There is a question though, of generations and how generations 0:43:10.440 --> 0:43:13.920 have changed, even us, you know, talking about kids on 0:43:14.000 --> 0:43:16.640 their phones and Andrew talking about his kids because you know, 0:43:16.680 --> 0:43:19.160 we don't really know the impact because they haven't come 0:43:19.160 --> 0:43:19.919 of age yet. 0:43:20.239 --> 0:43:20.359 Uh. 0:43:20.440 --> 0:43:23.399 And I find myself slowly morphing into that get off 0:43:23.440 --> 0:43:25.799 my lawn, oh theer person, like you kids, put down 0:43:25.840 --> 0:43:28.040 your phones and pick up your pants and get into something. 0:43:28.080 --> 0:43:30.880 And I feel like maybe we do. I feel like 0:43:30.920 --> 0:43:31.479 maybe we do. 0:43:31.440 --> 0:43:32.120 Sound like that. 0:43:32.760 --> 0:43:35.480 And so as the generations come of age, and I 0:43:35.480 --> 0:43:38.200 think he made a legitimate point about the infrastructure that 0:43:38.239 --> 0:43:40.960 we built as black people. Are we a little bit 0:43:41.000 --> 0:43:45.399 disaggregated these days? Even this idea when we were saying, 0:43:45.400 --> 0:43:48.040 you know, I'd beat that kid's ass or whatever, A 0:43:48.040 --> 0:43:50.520 lot of that is narrative, Like there really isn't any 0:43:50.600 --> 0:43:53.680 evidence that this. You know, people would tell me on 0:43:53.960 --> 0:43:55.840 growing up, like if I did something wrong. 0:43:56.000 --> 0:43:57.040 Then the neighbor would beat me. 0:43:57.080 --> 0:43:58.680 And then when I got home, my mom would beat 0:43:58.719 --> 0:44:01.759 me too, Like there's no evidence this like collective neighborhood 0:44:01.840 --> 0:44:06.399 beating who like form kids into perfect human beings who 0:44:06.480 --> 0:44:09.359 never misbehaved anymore. So I do here when I hear 0:44:09.440 --> 0:44:12.080 the generations like we knew how to do it and 0:44:12.120 --> 0:44:15.000 you guys didn't, I am a little bit struck about 0:44:15.000 --> 0:44:17.520 what that means for us, specifically as a black community, 0:44:18.040 --> 0:44:20.239 because our community is the very thing that made us 0:44:20.760 --> 0:44:24.040 survive this four hundred year nightmare. So I do wonder 0:44:24.280 --> 0:44:27.759 what your thoughts are as you know, you're raising a 0:44:27.800 --> 0:44:30.160 new generation of black boys, you're from a different generation. 0:44:30.440 --> 0:44:32.439 Just curries your thoughts, mm hmm. 0:44:32.880 --> 0:44:33.120 Yeah. 0:44:33.160 --> 0:44:35.359 So what I think I was most struck by in 0:44:35.400 --> 0:44:38.840 that exchange is that it felt like there wasn't a 0:44:38.880 --> 0:44:41.560 place for feelings, which of course is my thing as 0:44:41.600 --> 0:44:43.600 a psychologist, right, And I think that that is what 0:44:43.640 --> 0:44:46.200 we're often missing, is that we are kind of talking 0:44:46.239 --> 0:44:48.759 at and past one another, as opposed to let me 0:44:48.800 --> 0:44:52.080 actually sit with what you're feeling and what you're telling me, right. 0:44:52.120 --> 0:44:56.640 And so in the listener's response, he's saying, like, what 0:44:56.719 --> 0:44:59.120 I picked up is that he was offended and maybe 0:44:59.200 --> 0:45:01.920 hurt that it felt like he was being blamed for 0:45:02.040 --> 0:45:04.880 this thing, and blame and shame is never going to 0:45:04.880 --> 0:45:07.279 be an effective motivator. And so I think when we 0:45:07.320 --> 0:45:09.600 are talking to young people, we are often trying to 0:45:09.680 --> 0:45:12.960 use some of these shaming tactics and then wondering why 0:45:13.000 --> 0:45:15.960 they are not effective, because shame is not effective, right, 0:45:16.040 --> 0:45:17.600 And so I think, if we can actually come to 0:45:17.640 --> 0:45:19.680 the table and then let me actually hear what you're saying, 0:45:19.719 --> 0:45:22.840 and I apologize if I said something that offended you, 0:45:22.880 --> 0:45:25.759 that wasn't my intent, but maybe that's how it happened, right, 0:45:25.800 --> 0:45:28.080 And so can we actually get on a feeling level, right, Like, 0:45:28.120 --> 0:45:30.440 maybe that's what we're missing, is that we're trying to 0:45:30.440 --> 0:45:33.840 brushpast feelings moving to action when we really have to 0:45:33.880 --> 0:45:34.959 deal with the feelings first. 0:45:36.880 --> 0:45:41.120 Okay, good episode should could be called do you know 0:45:41.160 --> 0:45:41.799 what people say? 0:45:41.840 --> 0:45:46.000 Get out your feelings? Put in parentheses in get feelings. 0:45:46.360 --> 0:45:48.600 I like it. I like it. 0:45:48.719 --> 0:45:51.600 I stay there, and I know why your roster's full. 0:45:52.040 --> 0:45:54.680 I know why you're roster's full. Honestly, you're this is 0:45:54.680 --> 0:45:58.240 really this is not just limited to like this exchange. 0:45:58.280 --> 0:46:02.240 This is in life period. So often we find ourselves 0:46:02.280 --> 0:46:05.080 trying to win our point and we don't hear that. 0:46:05.120 --> 0:46:08.000 The person's like not really debating the marriage of that argument. 0:46:08.040 --> 0:46:10.600 They're like, this is how I felt about what you did. 0:46:11.840 --> 0:46:16.480 But I also find myself in the blame and shame category, 0:46:16.640 --> 0:46:18.960 like I do in my mind. I find it the 0:46:18.960 --> 0:46:21.440 way I speak. Sometimes I find it when I see people, 0:46:22.040 --> 0:46:24.920 you know, I feel it. I filter my thoughts sometimes 0:46:24.960 --> 0:46:29.440 and sometimes I don't. And when I see people, you know, 0:46:29.560 --> 0:46:33.520 disconnected from community or just being disrespectful or like I 0:46:33.520 --> 0:46:35.759 don't care about none of this what's happening, Like I 0:46:35.760 --> 0:46:36.600 do find. 0:46:36.360 --> 0:46:38.600 Myself not necessarily. 0:46:38.880 --> 0:46:41.600 Somebody who does a great job at reaching people without 0:46:41.640 --> 0:46:45.479 any blame or shame is Latasha Brown. Like she voting 0:46:45.560 --> 0:46:47.799 rights activists who runs Black Voters Matter, and she just 0:46:47.840 --> 0:46:50.120 has a way of speaking to people and pulling them in. 0:46:51.080 --> 0:46:53.400 She is an evangelist who can make you a believer 0:46:53.520 --> 0:46:56.640 in whatever she's preaching because she leads with love. And 0:46:56.680 --> 0:46:59.160 so I've tried to learn how to do that. But 0:46:59.200 --> 0:47:01.399 even with talking with my family, sometimes I do find 0:47:01.400 --> 0:47:05.880 myself judging, you know, or when they say something, I'm like, what, like, 0:47:05.880 --> 0:47:07.960 what does that even mean? So that's really good advice 0:47:08.040 --> 0:47:11.759 for me and how I present and speak for sure, 0:47:12.360 --> 0:47:14.399 I'll try to practice it at this big old gen 0:47:14.640 --> 0:47:17.480 x age because I think you went over more people 0:47:17.640 --> 0:47:20.279 with honey and not that you're not. 0:47:20.200 --> 0:47:22.360 About to give you another session. I know, I'm just 0:47:22.360 --> 0:47:23.800 thinking I had. 0:47:23.680 --> 0:47:25.520 A question, but I stopped myself. I'm like, I'm not 0:47:25.600 --> 0:47:26.200 asking a question. 0:47:26.640 --> 0:47:29.399 Judgment. You know you sent and you know. 0:47:29.400 --> 0:47:31.759 In therapy like it don't matter what you say. If 0:47:31.800 --> 0:47:34.000 once that forty five fifty minute come up, you could 0:47:34.000 --> 0:47:34.680 be like, you have docs. 0:47:34.719 --> 0:47:36.479 I just had an abortion yesterday and they're like, okay, 0:47:36.680 --> 0:47:39.360 do that up next week. 0:47:40.320 --> 0:47:47.920 I literally said, and on that note, on that note. 0:47:45.320 --> 0:47:46.960 Welcome you got to come back. 0:47:47.000 --> 0:47:52.200 Though, there are so many people our listeners who come 0:47:52.239 --> 0:47:55.000 up to us and say they just relate to wrestling 0:47:55.000 --> 0:47:58.279 with not knowing what to do in this moment, balancing 0:47:58.320 --> 0:48:01.319 micro trauma with macro, you know, from the government to 0:48:01.480 --> 0:48:04.640 what's happening all over the world, you know, really wanting 0:48:04.719 --> 0:48:06.920 a safe place to land. And while we convent with 0:48:07.000 --> 0:48:09.239 them and we can give them calls to action, we 0:48:09.320 --> 0:48:13.520 can't give them the psychological tools to combat the warfare 0:48:13.600 --> 0:48:15.840 they're experiencing on every side. So you know, you're always 0:48:15.880 --> 0:48:18.440 welcome back home, not just to counsel us, but to 0:48:18.560 --> 0:48:19.920 also counsel our audience. 0:48:19.920 --> 0:48:21.719 So we thank God for you and really appreciate you 0:48:21.800 --> 0:48:22.560 joining us today. 0:48:23.200 --> 0:48:25.239 You're here. You Welcome home. 0:48:25.360 --> 0:48:26.000 Welcome Home. 0:48:40.040 --> 0:48:42.880 Native lamd Pod is a production of iHeartRadio in partnership 0:48:42.880 --> 0:48:46.640 with reisent Choice Media. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit 0:48:46.920 --> 0:48:50.719 the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen 0:48:50.800 --> 0:48:51.720 to your favorite shows.