Speaker 1: Native LAMB Pod is the production of iHeartRadio in partnership
Speaker 1: with Reason Choice Media.
Speaker 2: Welcome, Welcome, Welcome, Welcome, Welcome, Welcome.
Speaker 1: Welcome home, y'all is Mini pod Day, and I'm thrilled
Speaker 1: because we have very special guests joining us Doctor Joy
Speaker 1: Hard and Bradford. She's a licensed psychologist, a speaker, and
Speaker 1: host of the wildly popular mental health podcast Therapy for
Speaker 1: Black Girls. I've been a guest on her show before
Speaker 1: and turned it into my own personal therapy session.
Speaker 3: I got a free bee.
Speaker 4: Out of her.
Speaker 1: But we love doctor Joy. It's such a delight to
Speaker 1: have you on the show. I was so thrill and
Speaker 1: Angela said you would be our guest this week.
Speaker 2: So welcome home, Welcome you, Thank you, touch and to
Speaker 2: join you all.
Speaker 3: Even your voice is so soothing. I love hearing you.
Speaker 5: Might put me out right exactly.
Speaker 1: But there's a reason, Angela, you wanted to have doctor
Speaker 1: Joy on the show. I have my own personal therapy
Speaker 1: questions I'll be getting to later, But what was your reason.
Speaker 6: Well, there's a clip that keeps circulating online. It's been
Speaker 6: viral a few times, and I just want to play
Speaker 6: that clip. The clip is of a mother who has
Speaker 6: clearly sounded like she's sobbing as she moves around a
Speaker 6: very destroyed house. They say that this was seventy thousand
Speaker 6: dollars in damage done to her home by her twelve
Speaker 6: year old son because she simply took his device away.
Speaker 6: We regularly talk about on this show how these devices
Speaker 6: are all consuming. We see children getting into them much younger.
Speaker 6: I have a good friend of mine whose daughter. I
Speaker 6: was watching her daughter when she was two, and this
Speaker 6: was several years ago, and I had a book I
Speaker 6: was reading to her and the baby was swiping the
Speaker 6: page instead of turning the page. So you know, even
Speaker 6: even that, like, there are so many ways in which
Speaker 6: we begin to rely on these devices.
Speaker 4: For parents.
Speaker 6: Sometimes it's a necessary very mental health reprieve to give
Speaker 6: the child something to do. And then you also see
Speaker 6: kids whose minds are not developed enough to be able
Speaker 6: to hold devices, and when they're taken away, they flip out.
Speaker 6: I have never seen something online where a child flips
Speaker 6: out and causes this much damage. Or refrigerator was tipped
Speaker 6: over in here, every TV screen had a hole in
Speaker 6: it or was broken in some way. Dresser's furniture completely destroyed. Again,
Speaker 6: they said it was seventy thousand dollars worth of damage.
Speaker 6: So before you answer, doctor Joy, I want to go
Speaker 6: to my co host one who muttered under his breath.
Speaker 6: I have three options that I would have provided this child,
Speaker 6: and I want to see if my three options are
Speaker 6: aligned with my co host Andrew as you shake your
Speaker 6: head in person, all, oh.
Speaker 5: I'm not because I'm embarrassed with the doc here to
Speaker 5: say my reaction, I.
Speaker 4: Think you should say your reaction.
Speaker 5: Well, i'd said, you know, was the video was taking
Speaker 5: it in, I'd kick his ass, But I do not physically,
Speaker 5: of course, uh harm my children. Of course we have
Speaker 5: a stern talking to and I don't believe that would
Speaker 5: be in their their set of options to do when
Speaker 5: their devices are taken at all.
Speaker 6: Yeah, Tiff, how did you feel watching that with you?
Speaker 6: If this was your child, or a niece or nephew,
Speaker 6: a child's friend, what do you feel like your response
Speaker 6: would be to something like that?
Speaker 1: Well, you know, I I have an issue with kids
Speaker 1: on phones like that, and when I was watching it,
Speaker 1: I'm like, this is an addiction, clear and simple, and
Speaker 1: I think, you know, I don't want to blame parents,
Speaker 1: but I do. I look at that and think the
Speaker 1: parent has some responsibility because so often parents will make
Speaker 1: these devices the babysitter and put you know, the iPad
Speaker 1: down or give a phone down, and not only is
Speaker 1: that detrimental to their mental development and their health, but
Speaker 1: a study came out, I think last year or from
Speaker 1: jama that looked at data more than four thousand kids
Speaker 1: and linked addiction to social media, mobile phones, and video
Speaker 1: games the higher risk of suicidal thoughts and behavior. So
Speaker 1: when I see something like that, I think there is
Speaker 1: no more clear example that this is a real problem.
Speaker 1: That kid has some serious challenges that derived from the phone,
Speaker 1: but also perhaps not the most attentive home life and
Speaker 1: not getting enough mental stimulation elsewhere.
Speaker 6: Yeah, I definitely agree with both of y'all. I'm gonna
Speaker 6: say my first thing was like, oh, somebody getting an
Speaker 6: ass beat. And I don't even believe in whipping kids,
Speaker 6: but it's like, at this point, you chose violence.
Speaker 4: I'm choosing violence.
Speaker 6: I don't know whose child you are, but you going
Speaker 6: to whoever child you are because you're not my child
Speaker 6: doing those stuff like this like this is beyond. And
Speaker 6: the other thing that I thought about my mom used
Speaker 6: to cheat tease me when we were little. There was
Speaker 6: like some you know, Chitlin circuit play that came through Seattle,
Speaker 6: and the lady got on there and she would say
Speaker 6: I will kill you and tell God you died to
Speaker 6: her child. And my mom used to say that to
Speaker 6: me all the time, and that's the first thing I
Speaker 6: thought of here.
Speaker 4: I was like, Oh, my God, you're going to meet
Speaker 4: your maker. So God, did Joy, please tell us why
Speaker 4: we're wrong?
Speaker 6: And if this is ever listen to this show what
Speaker 6: you would advise her to do with this child that
Speaker 6: clearly has an addiction and some clear detrimental, destructive anger
Speaker 6: management issues.
Speaker 5: Yeah.
Speaker 2: So you know, when I watched, I had not seen
Speaker 2: this video before before you all shared it, and I
Speaker 2: was also struck by like the level of destruction in
Speaker 2: the home. And my first thought was, this is not
Speaker 2: just about the phone, right, Like I think the phones
Speaker 2: and devices feel like very easy places for us to blame,
Speaker 2: like what's happening. But my guess is that stuff has
Speaker 2: been building up long before the phone was taking it away.
Speaker 2: And I think it's also interesting I saw a lot
Speaker 2: of people in the comments talking about, you know, similar
Speaker 2: reactions like oh he needs to be beat, or people
Speaker 2: talked about like getting police involved in all of these things,
Speaker 2: all of which I do not think would be helpful.
Speaker 2: You know, so much of parenting is really about regulating
Speaker 2: ourselves so that we can then also help our children
Speaker 2: to regulate. And what I am seeing is just a
Speaker 2: complete lack of regulation. It feels like and maybe even
Speaker 2: more right, like there may be some addiction things related
Speaker 2: to the device, but also maybe some distress tolerance, some
Speaker 2: impulse control. Like it feels like there are a host
Speaker 2: of things that may be going on that were happening
Speaker 2: even before the phone was taken away.
Speaker 3: Doctor Joy, Can I ask.
Speaker 5: You know because you made me think that's that's you're
Speaker 5: right about?
Speaker 7: Right.
Speaker 1: I wanted to ask you because I don't think this
Speaker 1: is a problem specific to children. I sit at tables
Speaker 1: sometimes with people and they're looking down. I'm just out
Speaker 1: of respect for myself and my words and what I
Speaker 1: have to offer. When I'm not being listened to, I
Speaker 1: don't speak, I won't contribute to the conversation. If you're
Speaker 1: on your phone, then that has your attention. I'm not
Speaker 1: going to weigh in, but I notice when I'm at
Speaker 1: brunch and I'm looking at people and you have a
Speaker 1: table full of people and they're all looking down like this.
Speaker 1: And it's not that it just I think people don't
Speaker 1: have social grace anymore, like they have no idea. We
Speaker 1: talk on this show a lot about speaker phone. It
Speaker 1: drives me crazy.
Speaker 3: On the train.
Speaker 1: I take the train a lot between DC and New York,
Speaker 1: and people will just be there watching shows on speaker
Speaker 1: and I am the annoying person. It's like, excuse me,
Speaker 1: you need headphones on the train. Like I say it
Speaker 1: to everybody all the time in my workspace, I'm like, please,
Speaker 1: you can't be on speaker. But it just feels like
Speaker 1: we're so disconnected from each other, and these phones feel
Speaker 1: detrimental to our social health, our mental development as grown
Speaker 1: men and women. People don't know how to engage anymore.
Speaker 1: It's frustrating for me. I leave my phone downstairs. I'm
Speaker 1: intentional about not being on my phone all the time.
Speaker 3: What advice or.
Speaker 1: What would you say to not just children but adults, Like,
Speaker 1: what are some practices we can employ to be more
Speaker 1: connected and get off these devices.
Speaker 3: I mean, it's really ruining us. It annoys me, that's
Speaker 3: how much I think it's ruining us.
Speaker 2: Yeah, but look at how all of the energy that
Speaker 2: you have related to this tiffany a lot, And I
Speaker 2: think that that just speaks but it speaks to the
Speaker 2: power that the devices often have over us. And so
Speaker 2: when you think about as adults, we often struggle with
Speaker 2: putting the phone down and being more attended and being
Speaker 2: more engaging, you can only imagine what the young people
Speaker 2: in our lives struggle with, right, Like, their brains aren't
Speaker 2: even fully developed, so of course they struggle with setting
Speaker 2: limits around it. And so a lot of it is
Speaker 2: modeling for the young people in our lives. How do
Speaker 2: we take breaks from our devices? How do we actually
Speaker 2: engage with one another? I completely agree with you. I
Speaker 2: think that there is a lot of a lot of
Speaker 2: social graces that are just not being cultivated anymore. And
Speaker 2: I think we also have to think about the fact
Speaker 2: that many people also use their devices as a way
Speaker 2: to manage anxiety. So if you are like waiting for
Speaker 2: a friend to show up and you're like not wanting
Speaker 2: to have small talk, what do you do when you're scrolling?
Speaker 3: Maybe, right?
Speaker 2: And so I think that that's something else that people
Speaker 2: aren't always tapped into, is that many of us are
Speaker 2: using devices as a way to kind of regulate ourselves
Speaker 2: and to manage any anxiety that we might be feeling.
Speaker 2: So in terms of some tips you've already shared, like
Speaker 2: having some distance between yourself and the device, so especially
Speaker 2: at nighttime, right, Like there's all this research that talks
Speaker 2: about the blue lights and like how our brains continue
Speaker 2: to be engaged even when we are thinking the phone
Speaker 2: is down. So if you can sleep with it in
Speaker 2: a different room, that is incredibly helpful both to your
Speaker 2: mental health but also for your sleep. There are all
Speaker 2: these apps that you can also add to your devices
Speaker 2: that turn certain apps off, right, So if you don't
Speaker 2: want to be on the social media channels, or you
Speaker 2: only want to be able to check your email, like
Speaker 2: those kinds of things I think can also be really helpful.
Speaker 2: But also making sure that you're getting enough physical activity,
Speaker 2: So are you doing enough other things in your life
Speaker 2: life to stimulate you so that there isn't necessarily the
Speaker 2: need for the phone. But I do think it's important
Speaker 2: to think about, Like the way that we're talking about
Speaker 2: this is in a lot of ways the same ways
Speaker 2: we talk about like managing addictions, right, Like all these
Speaker 2: things we have to add to our lives to be
Speaker 2: able to put distance between ourselves and these devices. And
Speaker 2: it's meant to be that way, right, Like, there are
Speaker 2: tons of people who are hired by these companies who
Speaker 2: are their entire time is spant trying to figure out
Speaker 2: how to keep us on our devices. So I want
Speaker 2: people not to be ashamed by this, Like this is
Speaker 2: something that has kind of come into our lives and
Speaker 2: taken off, I think, much quicker than anybody anticipated. And
Speaker 2: so it really is important for us to think about
Speaker 2: how do we stay connected to our humanity, both for
Speaker 2: ourselves and with one another.
Speaker 5: It's perfect your piece around the addiction piece. I mean,
Speaker 5: I relate to that like strongly, just that people are
Speaker 5: spending their paid big dollars to keep us right with
Speaker 5: those devices. Now. Unlike Tiffany, I am not intentional about
Speaker 5: the distance from my devices. I'm just distant from my devices.
Speaker 5: I don't respond they yeah, they'd be another room sometimes
Speaker 5: in other states, uh, Tiffany h Sometimes in the car
Speaker 5: leave I left the last weekend, left it in the
Speaker 5: caught a whole weekend because I had to keep my
Speaker 5: attention on some sleepover and my three children. But the
Speaker 5: of course, the problem he creates is that it creates
Speaker 5: the expectation for everyone else that when they send you
Speaker 5: a thing, that you're right there to get it in
Speaker 5: the moment and then respond. And I say to people,
Speaker 5: and anyone knows me already knows it, knows it. I
Speaker 5: don't have to say it. If if I'm not physically
Speaker 5: holding that device when it comes in the message, I
Speaker 5: might not see that thing until I'm really trying to
Speaker 5: waste time, you know, standing in a line or something,
Speaker 5: and I may go back and revisit what that list
Speaker 5: is like. But our society has now created this unbearable
Speaker 5: expectation of instant everything, instant access, instant gratification, instant you know,
Speaker 5: da da, da, da da. And the Surgeon General last
Speaker 5: year issued a about these social media sites and sell
Speaker 5: phones particular, and gave advice for parents. And I'm parents
Speaker 5: of now these kids who are about to be teenagers
Speaker 5: in two years middle school is nonetheless who all their
Speaker 5: friends have them, And I told them, you're not getting one.
Speaker 5: And if you have to get it, it's being recommended
Speaker 5: that you're not by your children smartphones. That you get
Speaker 5: them phones for safety and access to you, by and large,
Speaker 5: but not to everything else in the world out there
Speaker 5: that they're literally being guinea pigs for being experimented on.
Speaker 5: As to what the effects are, we don't know the
Speaker 5: effects yet because there's not been a generation brought up
Speaker 5: under this culture. So I just appreciate you there and
Speaker 5: want to echo again the regulation part of this, and
Speaker 5: that we as parents also are modeling, you know, to
Speaker 5: our children and those who are looking after us, what
Speaker 5: it's like to be responsible with the devices.
Speaker 2: And I am joining you in that middle school struggle, Andrew.
Speaker 2: I also have an eleven year old and holding off
Speaker 2: on a phone for as long as we possibly can.
Speaker 2: But it is really hard, right like when all of
Speaker 2: the friends have and it's like, oh, this makes me
Speaker 2: feel disconnected, but you know, knowing what I know, I
Speaker 2: feel like I am trying to hold off as much
Speaker 2: as long as I can.
Speaker 6: And friends, I want to ask for the parents who
Speaker 6: have children who are battling cell phone addictions and are
Speaker 6: afraid to take away devices because they're concerned. Maybe it
Speaker 6: wouldn't be at this level, but they're afraid of the
Speaker 6: type of destruction or the ways they engage, you know,
Speaker 6: their children around devices. They maybe even feel some guilt,
Speaker 6: Doctor Joy, like, how can I take away the thing
Speaker 6: that I gave.
Speaker 4: To you that you're now relying upon.
Speaker 6: What is some advice that you have for parents who
Speaker 6: are figuring out how to wean their kids off of
Speaker 6: a device where the reliance on it now may be
Speaker 6: a little too heavy.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think it is really important to get a
Speaker 2: professional involved, because as we are using this addiction language,
Speaker 2: you know, like we if we are not trained, we
Speaker 2: don't just stage interventions for people in our lives who
Speaker 2: are addicted to other things, right, And so we need
Speaker 2: to bring in trained professor about how do we talk
Speaker 2: with our young people about these devices and what are
Speaker 2: the steps to actually wean them, so to speak, from
Speaker 2: these devices. I don't think for most people, cold turkey
Speaker 2: is like you don't do that with other substances, and
Speaker 2: so with a device you probably would not do that
Speaker 2: as well. But I also think it's important for us
Speaker 2: to be able to apologize and say like, hey, you know,
Speaker 2: I gave you this device and I thought that it
Speaker 2: was fine. But the more I learn and the more
Speaker 2: I'm reading and the more things I see, I think
Speaker 2: that this may be an issue for us. And I
Speaker 2: want to backtrack, right, like it's okay to say oops,
Speaker 2: I messed up, and again that's great modeling for the
Speaker 2: young people in our lives that we can always go
Speaker 2: back on the decision and we learn more information, we
Speaker 2: can make a different decision. So I think getting a
Speaker 2: professional involved and also just acknowledging, like, hey, I know
Speaker 2: different things now and I want to make some different
Speaker 2: decisions for our family. But I also think, you know,
Speaker 2: to our earlier conversation, we have to look at our
Speaker 2: own interactions with our devices, right, So we can't say
Speaker 2: we want the young people to be their devices and
Speaker 2: then every time they see us we have our head
Speaker 2: buried in our phone, Like it doesn't work that way.
Speaker 1: Yeah, doctor Joy, I want to ask a personal therapy question.
Speaker 1: I'm trying to get into freebie, a freebie session. Yes, uh,
Speaker 1: you know what so much going on? Angela and I
Speaker 1: have certainly had some emotional episodes on this show where
Speaker 1: you know, things that we're going through personally, but also
Speaker 1: things that we're going through in this country. And I
Speaker 1: know sometimes for me, like the sadness seems so overwhelming,
Speaker 1: you know, it's just compounding we are I'm writing about
Speaker 1: this now, about navigating our own internal trauma while experiencing
Speaker 1: external trauma. I'm just curious your thoughts. You know, when
Speaker 1: you wake up and you face the monstrosities of the day,
Speaker 1: you are greeted by images of starving, murdered or starving
Speaker 1: or murdered children in the Congo and Palestine. In Sudan.
Speaker 1: You are greeted by images of children being ripped apart
Speaker 1: screaming for their parents right here in America because ice
Speaker 1: is you know, disappearing their parents. You're greeted with the
Speaker 1: images of animals being returned to overcrowded shelters because their
Speaker 1: humans got deported. And then there are the things in
Speaker 1: your own life. You know, maybe you had an ugly
Speaker 1: conversation with your mom, or maybe everybody in the family
Speaker 1: asked you to brow two hundred dollars that day. Maybe
Speaker 1: your mother is in chemo, you know, like real seriously
Speaker 1: heavy things. I have been employing different practices on how
Speaker 1: to stay afloat, on how to keep putting one foot
Speaker 1: in front of the next. But for a lot of
Speaker 1: people out there, it's not that they feel you know,
Speaker 1: it's not as dire like they feel suicidal. They might
Speaker 1: not feel like they need to be committed, but they
Speaker 1: just need help managing life. Right now, And I'm just
Speaker 1: curious any advice you can offer all of us who
Speaker 1: need help managing life right now.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think that as much as possible, you really
Speaker 2: have to try to disconnect from those images, Tiffany. And
Speaker 2: I know it's hard given what y'all do, right, And
Speaker 2: my heart often bleeds for you because I know this
Speaker 2: is your work, right, Like, this is kind of what
Speaker 2: you have been called to do, and it often feels
Speaker 2: difficult to like, how do I not bear witness to
Speaker 2: all of these awful things that are happening. But when
Speaker 2: you think about like just human psychology, our brains cannot
Speaker 2: often detect whether something is an image like a storybook
Speaker 2: or a movie or a news clip versus you being
Speaker 2: there in real life. And so what that means is
Speaker 2: that you are often experiencing what we call vicarious trauma,
Speaker 2: which is as if you were in the middle of
Speaker 2: the war or on the scene of this awful thing happening.
Speaker 2: And so you can start to experience things like PTSD symptoms,
Speaker 2: you know, difficulty sleeping, difficulty regulating your emotions, and so
Speaker 2: I think it is really important, even though there are
Speaker 2: so many awful things happening, even if you read about
Speaker 2: things that is a little less activating for us than
Speaker 2: watching images, because the images really do stay with us.
Speaker 2: And so I think as much as possible, really disconnecting
Speaker 2: from images, not watching triggering videos again, making sure that
Speaker 2: you're paying attention to your sleep, and also, you know,
Speaker 2: infusing your life with other things that you are grateful for,
Speaker 2: right so, you know, maybe spending time with your animals
Speaker 2: or with family members you love, or taking girls trips
Speaker 2: or you know, what kinds of things can you add
Speaker 2: as a buffer, because your life can't be all this,
Speaker 2: right Like, even though it is incredibly important and your
Speaker 2: work is so important, it can't be everything. You also
Speaker 2: have to build a life around those things as well.
Speaker 8: Yeah, free Well, speaking of trauma, Angela.
Speaker 6: So on this doctor Joy, you mentioned it when you
Speaker 6: talked about kind of the articles are reading and vicarious trauma.
Speaker 6: There's also some epide genetic trauma that we have, the
Speaker 6: things that we carry in our physical bodies ancestrally.
Speaker 4: That sometimes it just feels like white folks don't understand.
Speaker 6: So on that there is a moment that Serena Williams
Speaker 6: had recently in her on her hotel, and she brought
Speaker 6: us into that if we can roll that clip, all right.
Speaker 3: Everyone, how do we feel about cotton as decoration? Personally?
Speaker 5: For me, it doesn't feel great.
Speaker 4: So actually it feels like no polish.
Speaker 9: Means for cotton natural.
Speaker 6: So before you get to this, I want to play
Speaker 6: a clip from Megan Kelly where she responded very cluelessly
Speaker 6: to what it means to have ancestral trauma.
Speaker 10: Serena Williams is in the news. Why because she was
Speaker 10: in New York to support her friend Kim Kardashian with
Speaker 10: some things she's doing with Nike, and Serena will Siams
Speaker 10: was in town to attend to it. And she's in
Speaker 10: some hotel. We do not know which hotel she was staying,
Speaker 10: and she did not publicize that. But Serena Williams, who
Speaker 10: is one of the richest Americans alive, was triggered.
Speaker 4: By something Maureen.
Speaker 10: And so at the end of that video, she's plucked
Speaker 10: one of the cotton balls off of the plant and
Speaker 10: she's using it to buff her nails, and then she
Speaker 10: she does the hand gesture of like ew, like where
Speaker 10: you shake your hands like eh, gross, and she drops it. Now,
Speaker 10: Serena Williams is triggered by cotton.
Speaker 4: I guess because.
Speaker 10: It used to be picked by slaves, and she's a
Speaker 10: black American.
Speaker 3: It's twenty twenty five.
Speaker 10: Serena Williams is estimated by Forbes to be worth three
Speaker 10: hundred and fifty million dollars. She's married to a very,
Speaker 10: very rich man too. She hung up her racket in
Speaker 10: twenty twenty two, ending a career in which she earned
Speaker 10: ninety five million in prize money, more prize money than
Speaker 10: any female athlete in history. She has endorsement deals to
Speaker 10: this day with more than a dozen brands. She's active
Speaker 10: as an investor in her own venture capital firm. She's
Speaker 10: got a licensing deal with a beauty line. She's launched
Speaker 10: a multimedia company. She owns part of the Miami Dolphins.
Speaker 10: But she is an oppressed direct descendant of slaves. I guess,
Speaker 10: And that's how she sees herself to this day, because
Speaker 10: I guess. Generational trauma.
Speaker 6: Okay, so I want to play that for a couple reasons.
Speaker 6: Let me just tell you two points that triggered me.
Speaker 6: She said she was with her friend Kim Kardashian to
Speaker 6: attend to it, not to attend the event, to attend
Speaker 6: to it, which also I don't even know if Megan
Speaker 6: understands that she is leaning into where her.
Speaker 4: Ancestors probably were to attend to it.
Speaker 6: And then she said that Serena Williams one of the
Speaker 6: most accomplished athletes of our time, not black women athletes,
Speaker 6: not black athletes, one of the most accomplished athletes of
Speaker 6: our time. One prize money. When else did we hear
Speaker 6: prize money, y'all? When they had the Battle Royals and
Speaker 6: they made enslave people fight. So she's leaning into some
Speaker 6: of her own ancestral nonsense.
Speaker 4: So yes, I'm triggered.
Speaker 6: I actually I want to I want to tell you
Speaker 6: guys this really quick, and then I am gonna yo,
Speaker 6: doctor Joy. When I see cotton fields, I get nauseous.
Speaker 6: I get nauseous. Every time I called my mom and
Speaker 6: I was like, Mommy, what happens to you when you
Speaker 6: see cotton fields? And she said it makes me sick.
Speaker 6: There was an ancestor that we have, they said, was
Speaker 6: allergic to cotton.
Speaker 4: These are not things that you make up.
Speaker 6: This is there is something called epigenetics that Megan should google.
Speaker 6: These are things that we actually carry in our bloodline.
Speaker 6: So imagine if you are a descendant of an enslaved person,
Speaker 6: You actually.
Speaker 4: Do carry some of that trauma.
Speaker 6: We also carry the you know, the victory, the resilience,
Speaker 6: but we do carry that trauma anyway.
Speaker 4: I just wanted to point that out. The cotton one
Speaker 4: particularly pricked me because I know my experience with cotton.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I was really struck by how like trite she was,
Speaker 2: as if like, this couldn't possibly be an issue for
Speaker 2: Serena because money and wealth does not act as a
Speaker 2: buffer against racism and oppression, especially for somebody like Serena
Speaker 2: who has been so forthcoming about almost dying in the
Speaker 2: hospital because of medical discrimination, right, and so you know,
Speaker 2: that doesn't buffer her from experiences related to the things
Speaker 2: that her ancestors that have experienced the things she's likely
Speaker 2: learned and read about and maybe had family talk with
Speaker 2: her about, you know. So I think it's a very
Speaker 2: natural response, Like and I thought that, like the designer
Speaker 2: world had kind of come further along than to decorate
Speaker 2: with complaints anymore. Like it feels a bit outdated anyway,
Speaker 2: But of course I think a lot of us react
Speaker 2: to that because it's just so jarring, right, and it
Speaker 2: instantly puts us in the minds of what our ancestors
Speaker 2: had to do to survive, and so I was really
Speaker 2: strugg though not because this is kind of who Megan
Speaker 2: Kelly is and how she shows up right, but really
Speaker 2: struck by the way she kind of, you know, brushed
Speaker 2: it off, as if this reaction was being dramatic, and
Speaker 2: because Serena is wealthy, she should not react this way.
Speaker 5: I wish I was less connected to these, but I
Speaker 5: see them. You know, I'm in Florida. I'm in North Florida.
Speaker 5: My house is thirty minutes from South Georgia over the
Speaker 5: state line. In fact, one of the most regrettable things
Speaker 5: that my mom, who listens faithfully, is we'll probably hear
Speaker 5: this for the first time. But one of the reasons
Speaker 5: I have a hard time driving to her house and
Speaker 5: always want her to come to mind is because you
Speaker 5: spend a significant amount of the drive passing by these
Speaker 5: cotton fields that are still bloom right. I mean, you
Speaker 5: go in the right season, it's just a sea of white,
Speaker 5: and it bothers me so badly, means to my space.
Speaker 5: I mean, my kids have caught me crying, you know,
Speaker 5: sometimes when they're in the backseat and we're driving through this,
Speaker 5: and I'm thinking about my grandparents, and you know, my
Speaker 5: mom's parents who were actually born en slay into slavery.
Speaker 5: And you wouldn't think that given our ages, but my grandpa,
Speaker 5: my mom's parents were much older than my father's parents.
Speaker 5: My mom's the the the what seventeenth child of her parents,
Speaker 5: so her mother was laid into early fifty fifty one.
Speaker 5: I think it was when my mother came. So it was,
Speaker 5: it was, it is. It's everywhere you go to a gala,
Speaker 5: you go to a wedding, you go into a hotel.
Speaker 5: This is the decoration of choice. It hasn't always been
Speaker 5: this way, but it's like it's made it as a revival,
Speaker 5: and you know, a lot of it for us, I
Speaker 5: think a lot of black folks in the South is
Speaker 5: we have to steal ourselves nearly every day. And it's
Speaker 5: probably true for black people everywhere, but I know, particularly here,
Speaker 5: you literally are sitting desk to desk with someone who
Speaker 5: you've read their Facebook posts and you know they don't
Speaker 5: like you, not you the person, but your people who
Speaker 5: you are. They resent you in every way, shape or form.
Speaker 5: But yet you generate these niceties, these exchanges that you
Speaker 5: have to have compulsory almost you know, every single day.
Speaker 5: So this trauma piece is really what Megan's simple minded.
Speaker 5: I don't expect her to understand anything as complex as
Speaker 5: generational trauma. In fact, where she comes from is probably
Speaker 5: the belief that money solves all problems. And that ought
Speaker 5: to tell you enough about the type of type of
Speaker 5: stock that she comes from. But for the rest of us,
Speaker 5: we can be as wealthy, as situated, as positioned as
Speaker 5: anything and still be visited. And the truth of it
Speaker 5: is is they know what they are visiting upon us.
Speaker 5: They know when they put that Confederate flag up in
Speaker 5: the back of the truck driving and all through the city,
Speaker 5: they know what they're symbolizing to us. So the feigning
Speaker 5: of ignorance is also extremely offensive because they act like
Speaker 5: they don't know with the message that they're sending you.
Speaker 5: And so I appreciated your feedback on that. And if
Speaker 5: there are others for those of us who live this
Speaker 5: thing every day, where this is decoration common place, like
Speaker 5: the navigating of that without losing your damn mind.
Speaker 1: Doctor Joey, I wanted to because Angela and I were
Speaker 1: having this discussion. So first off, the idea of intergenerational trauma.
Speaker 1: It's actually, as I'm sure you know, being in this
Speaker 1: your profession, a newly explored study, we're only five to
Speaker 1: six generations from the horrors of enslavement. However, the psychological
Speaker 1: and emotional injuries we inherited, as Angela just talked about,
Speaker 1: as Andrew just spoke about, past two generations, and the
Speaker 1: impact it can have on us is even on a
Speaker 1: molecular level, waiting our biology and influencing our loarnged behaviors.
Speaker 1: Research from the NIH, the National Institute of Health, suggests
Speaker 1: that trauma can affect a person's DNA and potentially leave
Speaker 1: an imprint on the health of future generations far removed
Speaker 1: from the traumatic event itself. So trauma around this in
Speaker 1: some way is in our genetic code. But where Angela
Speaker 1: and I differed is we discussed like should we play
Speaker 1: the Megan Kelly portion of this? And so Angela the
Speaker 1: point was, I think people want to know, like what
Speaker 1: do you say when someone says this kind of ridiculous
Speaker 1: and ignorance, Like how do you respond? And my thought
Speaker 1: is even to see her face and to hear her
Speaker 1: voice is triggering. You know, I'm more of the mind
Speaker 1: of you know, I don't want to promote her podcast
Speaker 1: or what she has to say, and I don't want
Speaker 1: to give her that attention. I think this is an
Speaker 1: interesting question for you because as black people, we are
Speaker 1: so often put in that position where we got point
Speaker 1: two seconds to decide. So I know, and I know
Speaker 1: Angela has been where you're in a space where somebody
Speaker 1: has said something to you and you have to decide.
Speaker 1: Am I going to just elevate past this and ignore you?
Speaker 1: Or am I about to go spider monkey on your
Speaker 1: ass and give you the righteous tongue lashing that you deserve.
Speaker 1: Sometimes I don't make the right choice. Sometimes I you know,
Speaker 1: I'm gonna go for I got time today. Other Times
Speaker 1: I try to elevate above it. So I told angel
Speaker 1: I'm like, let's play it so then we can at
Speaker 1: least have a discussion about, like should we what kind
Speaker 1: of attention we should give these things for the people
Speaker 1: navigating those decisions.
Speaker 4: I'm curious what doctor Joy.
Speaker 1: Was saying to do if it maybe that was in
Speaker 1: your face saying that, like how do you respond?
Speaker 11: Now?
Speaker 6: This is Tip's second free point of advice, But doctor Jordan,
Speaker 6: we would love.
Speaker 4: To hear it.
Speaker 2: That's a hard one because I feel like you tiff,
Speaker 2: like it could go either way, right, depending on the
Speaker 2: kind of day you're having. And I think that that's
Speaker 2: the point that there are always so many things that
Speaker 2: we are trying to calculate, right like who else is here?
Speaker 2: Why am I in this experience? Who else is gonna
Speaker 2: be seeing? This is somebody filming? Right Like, they're all
Speaker 2: these decisions we're trying to calculate within two seconds, like
Speaker 2: you mentioned. And so I don't know that there is
Speaker 2: necessarily a right way. It is just what you choose
Speaker 2: at the moment. Right, So if you feel like, you
Speaker 2: know what, I don't even have time for this today.
Speaker 2: I don't think it's wrong to just say, Okay, this
Speaker 2: is ignorant, I'm not even going to give this any attention.
Speaker 2: But I also think that it is okay to put
Speaker 2: people in their place sometimes if you feel like that
Speaker 2: is something that you want to do now and to
Speaker 2: think about like the consequences, right, Like, well, the consequences
Speaker 2: be more detrimental than you just moving on, But sometimes
Speaker 2: you just got to let folks know. And so I
Speaker 2: don't think that it is a wrong way to do anything.
Speaker 2: I think it really is about what do you have
Speaker 2: the bandwidth for that day? And thinking about okay, what
Speaker 2: could be the potential consequences of this?
Speaker 5: Yeah?
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think our audience when we play these things,
Speaker 1: I think our audience actually likes it.
Speaker 3: I think our audience likes to.
Speaker 1: Hear, you know, Angelo's response to some of these people,
Speaker 1: because I think there are probably people all across the
Speaker 1: country who are like, I'm going to respond like that,
Speaker 1: so you know, I.
Speaker 3: Think people Yeah, sorry, Jeff, go ahead.
Speaker 6: No, I didn't mean to do that, because we heard
Speaker 6: about that on a survey too. I just it just
Speaker 6: sparked something in me, just to say people have to
Speaker 6: deal with these micro and macro aggressions every single day
Speaker 6: and are just like, I want the tools.
Speaker 4: What do I say?
Speaker 6: And I think in this moment, all we can hope
Speaker 6: for is that at some point people will find their
Speaker 6: compassion for humanity. And so if they have been so
Speaker 6: closed minded, so closed off, so restricted by who, by
Speaker 6: the company they keep, by the books they read, by
Speaker 6: the shows they listen to, by the people they entertain,
Speaker 6: that allow us to bring you into our experience.
Speaker 4: I got an issue with cotton.
Speaker 6: So does Andrew right, Like that's not happenstand, we don't know, Serena,
Speaker 6: you know, like that's not happenstance.
Speaker 7: I don't know.
Speaker 3: Tip.
Speaker 4: You didn't say if you have one or not. Doctor Joy,
Speaker 4: I don't know if you have one or not.
Speaker 6: But there are some folks that have visceral reactions to
Speaker 6: seeing certain types of crops being in certain parts of
Speaker 6: the country, you know, talking to a person with a
Speaker 6: certain type of accent. It just just can cause different issues.
Speaker 6: And so I see it as a teachable moment, even
Speaker 6: when it is ignorant. I would love to wipe the
Speaker 6: smug look off a face. But if I can do
Speaker 6: that with facts and not hands, I would take that
Speaker 6: any day.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean I do. I do have.
Speaker 1: I carry generational trauma in different ways.
Speaker 3: I think we all do.
Speaker 4: I think.
Speaker 3: Even who we are in life is so often.
Speaker 1: I interviewed this woman this week from my book, and
Speaker 1: she talks about she was eight years old and saw
Speaker 1: a woman, a black woman in the black section of
Speaker 1: the hospital die, an elderly woman who's gasping for air,
Speaker 1: and none of the doctors would treat her because they
Speaker 1: had to see the white patients first. And she decided,
Speaker 1: at eight years old she was going to become a doctor,
Speaker 1: and it made me. I'm writing about probing ourselves and
Speaker 1: even our aspirations in life. Even who we become is
Speaker 1: in response to, or determined by some level of white
Speaker 1: supremacy in this life. I write about this Andrew on
Speaker 1: the heels of writing about our conversation we had about imagination,
Speaker 1: and so yes, I think we are all impacted by it,
Speaker 1: and it can weigh weigh me down. And so I
Speaker 1: dare to imagine who am I and what does my
Speaker 1: life look like? We're white people not at the center.
Speaker 1: Even when I did my show on MSNBC. You know,
Speaker 1: black older black folks always pull me aside, like babe,
Speaker 1: we worried about you, like be careful. But I dare
Speaker 1: to imagine what would this show be if I got
Speaker 1: to be free, if I got to speak freely, if
Speaker 1: I got to make cultural references the same way to
Speaker 1: white folks get to make cultural references. Maybe I don't
Speaker 1: get theirs, they don't get mine. If you ain't get
Speaker 1: it, it wasn't for you to get you know, who would
Speaker 1: we be if we got to talk in our own vernacular?
Speaker 1: It didn't have the code switch for their comfort. So
Speaker 1: and I think that's kind of the point for this
Speaker 1: conversation I'll tell you about later, doctor Joy that Andrew
Speaker 1: was making at one point saying that in some ways
Speaker 1: white folks have taken our imagination and I'm daring to
Speaker 1: reclaim that at least.
Speaker 5: And parts because of the way we have to calculate
Speaker 5: our movements. I mean, you you mentioned this in part
Speaker 5: doc and your response just who's who's watching? What calculus
Speaker 5: must you include around consequence for you doing that thing?
Speaker 5: And I talk about it a lot in the in
Speaker 5: the form of voting. How you know, Obama didn't become
Speaker 5: a thing until a lot of us in this South
Speaker 5: saw that white people were willing to get behind him
Speaker 5: and and huge fashion, and it changed the math. It's
Speaker 5: not because we didn't like him and didn't want to
Speaker 5: support him, but we're also we also calculate, and we
Speaker 5: don't want to throw votes away because we know how
Speaker 5: hard thought they are, and and and we have to
Speaker 5: negotiate our power from from from moment to moment, election
Speaker 5: to election. But I my agitation a lot of times,
Speaker 5: certainly here in the South, is that mostly and I
Speaker 5: find this a lot with conversations with white men, is
Speaker 5: They use a lot of these painful instances in some
Speaker 5: of these sort of gas lit yuh experiences they want
Speaker 5: to call up, like black on black crime and why
Speaker 5: isn't that there aren't marches when when a black You know,
Speaker 5: these sort of things that I find to be really
Speaker 5: intended to be provocative to sort of get their opinion
Speaker 5: out there under the guise of curiosity. And it ain't curious.
Speaker 5: It's largely judgmental. It's mostly meant to poke and mostly
Speaker 5: meant to try to serve as it an opportunity for
Speaker 5: them to indoctrina you and to believe in a subscribing
Speaker 5: to what it is that that that they believe in,
Speaker 5: not really hearing the fact that I don't say, why
Speaker 5: don't white crime even though that's the majority of crimes
Speaker 5: that take place in this country. No one says why
Speaker 5: don't white crime? Not news, not people, So why don't
Speaker 5: we say that?
Speaker 7: Right?
Speaker 5: I could return that, but I always find I often
Speaker 5: find that it's meant to poke, to pride, to provoke,
Speaker 5: And so if I if I deny you a response,
Speaker 5: it's because I'm not going to entertain you. My choice
Speaker 5: is not to entertain you.
Speaker 3: That's it. You have time about that?
Speaker 1: Why, like, listen, if you want to book a session
Speaker 1: with me, the book a session with me?
Speaker 6: But I'm not hearing any question. Wait and she like,
Speaker 6: am my roster fold? So y'all go way on the
Speaker 6: wait list. I love it, she said, She said, do
Speaker 6: you have any thoughts about this?
Speaker 4: I dress said about.
Speaker 2: I did, but I did want to go back to
Speaker 2: your your comment Tiffany around like how imagination gets stolen?
Speaker 2: And I think about this a lot as a parent, right,
Speaker 2: like how do I create a world from my kids
Speaker 2: where they can just be who they are? But the
Speaker 2: truth is that they're black boys, and so there is
Speaker 2: some reality that I have to infuse and it does
Speaker 2: often make me feel bad in some ways that I
Speaker 2: am like stripping this imagination from them. But I also,
Speaker 2: like I said, I think that's why spaces like this
Speaker 2: are important, right, that you don't have to do the
Speaker 2: code switching in their cultural references, that you can make
Speaker 2: that are ore and that we get it right because
Speaker 2: it is a spaceman for us, you know. So I
Speaker 2: think that that is something really important to highlight, that
Speaker 2: we can also create our own spaces where there is
Speaker 2: maybe more an ability to play with our imagination.
Speaker 5: Yeah, I love that.
Speaker 1: We had an interesting conversation as well. We were broadcasting
Speaker 1: live from the Congressional Black Cocus Foundation's Annual Legislative Conference
Speaker 1: and Roland Martin, our brother Rowe uncle Roe joined us
Speaker 1: and he had some admonishing words about gen X.
Speaker 3: So you can take a listen to that.
Speaker 7: There were a group of people.
Speaker 12: They were the ones who sustained us from King's assassination
Speaker 12: to present day. They were the ones who knew who
Speaker 12: didn't vote. They did precinct walks, They showed up at
Speaker 12: city council, county govern meant state government. I guess my
Speaker 12: parents seventy eight, just like Eddie Rai, and we guess
Speaker 12: what those people are retiring or in some many cases
Speaker 12: they passed away. So there's a generation that did not
Speaker 12: replace those people.
Speaker 11: Yea.
Speaker 12: So what we've done is we've become so technical where
Speaker 12: we think that social media, text messchien, phone calls replaces
Speaker 12: that on the ground infrastructure. And that's what's missing if
Speaker 12: you go to place all around the country. That group,
Speaker 12: dudey gen X did not step up.
Speaker 1: So one of our viewers actually weighed in with their thoughts,
Speaker 1: and I think, you know, Roe's pointing around gen X,
Speaker 1: you know, not meeting the moment and maybe failing resonated
Speaker 1: with some people. One of our viewers took great offense
Speaker 1: to it, so he sent in a comment, I want
Speaker 1: you to take a listen. And on the other side,
Speaker 1: of course, Roe had time, and so Roe responded to
Speaker 1: the viewers, Well, let's first hear from the viewer.
Speaker 9: Greeting's native lampard.
Speaker 5: Hi, this is Keith from DC.
Speaker 11: What's going on?
Speaker 9: Andrew, Angela and Tiffany. This is a private message for
Speaker 9: you guys.
Speaker 11: I checked out your town hall the other day that
Speaker 11: you had with Roland Martin, and it was a statement
Speaker 11: that he made that really inflated me or inflamed them.
Speaker 11: Say it was a statement that he made that gen
Speaker 11: X failed us. Well, I have a problem with that
Speaker 11: because I'm a gen xer. You are gen xers. Roland
Speaker 11: himself is a gen xer. Wes Moore, the person you
Speaker 11: had on your town hall is a gener xer. Corey
Speaker 11: Booker who made that longest speech and whatever, is a
Speaker 11: gen xer.
Speaker 9: I participated in the two thousand and eight and twenty
Speaker 9: twelve bought.
Speaker 11: President Obama and Biden election.
Speaker 9: I particiate in every election thereof.
Speaker 11: I have camp famous, I have done the phone banks,
Speaker 11: I have replaced and removed signs.
Speaker 9: I've done don dore have participants participant in the elections
Speaker 9: from whenever I was able to do set up. I'm
Speaker 9: a gen xer and the fact that he said the
Speaker 9: gen X has failed us is an insult to me.
Speaker 9: And if Martin needs to reach out to me, y'all
Speaker 9: have my information again, this is Keith. I'm a gen xer.
Speaker 9: Put some respect on that name. Gen X fore a baby.
Speaker 1: If this is private by the time our audiences, we
Speaker 1: will blur his face.
Speaker 3: He put on a video, but we'll get clarity from him.
Speaker 3: So if you're.
Speaker 4: Watching videos all the time, but.
Speaker 3: He may not want that.
Speaker 1: So if you see his face clearly, then we reached
Speaker 1: out to him and got clarity. If we are blurring
Speaker 1: his face, we will cut out his name so people
Speaker 1: don't know, so that will explain whatever we'll we'll cut
Speaker 1: out all audio that references him. However, I did send
Speaker 1: this to Roland uh and Roro had time to respond.
Speaker 3: So let's take a listen to that, right, ro.
Speaker 7: Okay, listen up. I'm gonna need all your people who
Speaker 7: are caught up in your feelings about my comments regarding
Speaker 7: gen X to pay attention. I know that there are
Speaker 7: gen X people who have run for office, but I
Speaker 7: was very specific in my criticism. I was talking about
Speaker 7: the infrastructure that exist in order for us to turn
Speaker 7: out the vote. I'm talking about the people who were
Speaker 7: pre seen captains, who were block captains, the people who
Speaker 7: have been involved on the ground, the people who run
Speaker 7: NAACP chapters, the people who are running community organizations who
Speaker 7: are on the ground. Yes there are grassroots organizations. I'm
Speaker 7: talking about the people who work elections, who are poll workers.
Speaker 7: I'm saying that was this massive infrastructure, that it's not
Speaker 7: being replaced. It's a fact. Okay, So you planning, what
Speaker 7: you should be asking is where's the infrastructure. Not the
Speaker 7: running for office, but the regular ordinary people who do
Speaker 7: the work to drive our community engagement every single day.
Speaker 7: And I'm telling you all across black communities across the country,
Speaker 7: we're losing that because they are retiring or becoming ancestors.
Speaker 7: So don't get in your feelings, focus and fix the
Speaker 7: issue because that's our problem.
Speaker 8: Yo.
Speaker 6: Wait a minute, the fact that Roland got up in
Speaker 6: the morning and recorded this, that you could tell Roland
Speaker 6: just woke up. Then Okay, Tiffany was the provocatory.
Speaker 4: And whyonding?
Speaker 5: So Doc, who won? Who won the bat?
Speaker 10: Oh?
Speaker 5: Why have I get in? And how did I get it? Exactly?
Speaker 11: Well?
Speaker 1: There is a question though, of generations and how generations
Speaker 1: have changed, even us, you know, talking about kids on
Speaker 1: their phones and Andrew talking about his kids because you know,
Speaker 1: we don't really know the impact because they haven't come
Speaker 1: of age yet.
Speaker 11: Uh.
Speaker 1: And I find myself slowly morphing into that get off
Speaker 1: my lawn, oh theer person, like you kids, put down
Speaker 1: your phones and pick up your pants and get into something.
Speaker 1: And I feel like maybe we do. I feel like
Speaker 1: maybe we do.
Speaker 3: Sound like that.
Speaker 1: And so as the generations come of age, and I
Speaker 1: think he made a legitimate point about the infrastructure that
Speaker 1: we built as black people. Are we a little bit
Speaker 1: disaggregated these days? Even this idea when we were saying,
Speaker 1: you know, I'd beat that kid's ass or whatever, A
Speaker 1: lot of that is narrative, Like there really isn't any
Speaker 1: evidence that this. You know, people would tell me on
Speaker 1: growing up, like if I did something wrong.
Speaker 3: Then the neighbor would beat me.
Speaker 1: And then when I got home, my mom would beat
Speaker 1: me too, Like there's no evidence this like collective neighborhood
Speaker 1: beating who like form kids into perfect human beings who
Speaker 1: never misbehaved anymore. So I do here when I hear
Speaker 1: the generations like we knew how to do it and
Speaker 1: you guys didn't, I am a little bit struck about
Speaker 1: what that means for us, specifically as a black community,
Speaker 1: because our community is the very thing that made us
Speaker 1: survive this four hundred year nightmare. So I do wonder
Speaker 1: what your thoughts are as you know, you're raising a
Speaker 1: new generation of black boys, you're from a different generation.
Speaker 3: Just curries your thoughts, mm hmm.
Speaker 5: Yeah.
Speaker 2: So what I think I was most struck by in
Speaker 2: that exchange is that it felt like there wasn't a
Speaker 2: place for feelings, which of course is my thing as
Speaker 2: a psychologist, right, And I think that that is what
Speaker 2: we're often missing, is that we are kind of talking
Speaker 2: at and past one another, as opposed to let me
Speaker 2: actually sit with what you're feeling and what you're telling me, right.
Speaker 2: And so in the listener's response, he's saying, like, what
Speaker 2: I picked up is that he was offended and maybe
Speaker 2: hurt that it felt like he was being blamed for
Speaker 2: this thing, and blame and shame is never going to
Speaker 2: be an effective motivator. And so I think when we
Speaker 2: are talking to young people, we are often trying to
Speaker 2: use some of these shaming tactics and then wondering why
Speaker 2: they are not effective, because shame is not effective, right,
Speaker 2: And so I think, if we can actually come to
Speaker 2: the table and then let me actually hear what you're saying,
Speaker 2: and I apologize if I said something that offended you,
Speaker 2: that wasn't my intent, but maybe that's how it happened, right,
Speaker 2: And so can we actually get on a feeling level, right, Like,
Speaker 2: maybe that's what we're missing, is that we're trying to
Speaker 2: brushpast feelings moving to action when we really have to
Speaker 2: deal with the feelings first.
Speaker 6: Okay, good episode should could be called do you know
Speaker 6: what people say?
Speaker 4: Get out your feelings? Put in parentheses in get feelings.
Speaker 4: I like it. I like it.
Speaker 5: I stay there, and I know why your roster's full.
Speaker 5: I know why you're roster's full. Honestly, you're this is
Speaker 5: really this is not just limited to like this exchange.
Speaker 5: This is in life period. So often we find ourselves
Speaker 5: trying to win our point and we don't hear that.
Speaker 5: The person's like not really debating the marriage of that argument.
Speaker 5: They're like, this is how I felt about what you did.
Speaker 1: But I also find myself in the blame and shame category,
Speaker 1: like I do in my mind. I find it the
Speaker 1: way I speak. Sometimes I find it when I see people,
Speaker 1: you know, I feel it. I filter my thoughts sometimes
Speaker 1: and sometimes I don't. And when I see people, you know,
Speaker 1: disconnected from community or just being disrespectful or like I
Speaker 1: don't care about none of this what's happening, Like I
Speaker 1: do find.
Speaker 3: Myself not necessarily.
Speaker 1: Somebody who does a great job at reaching people without
Speaker 1: any blame or shame is Latasha Brown. Like she voting
Speaker 1: rights activists who runs Black Voters Matter, and she just
Speaker 1: has a way of speaking to people and pulling them in.
Speaker 1: She is an evangelist who can make you a believer
Speaker 1: in whatever she's preaching because she leads with love. And
Speaker 1: so I've tried to learn how to do that. But
Speaker 1: even with talking with my family, sometimes I do find
Speaker 1: myself judging, you know, or when they say something, I'm like, what, like,
Speaker 1: what does that even mean? So that's really good advice
Speaker 1: for me and how I present and speak for sure,
Speaker 1: I'll try to practice it at this big old gen
Speaker 1: x age because I think you went over more people
Speaker 1: with honey and not that you're not.
Speaker 5: About to give you another session. I know, I'm just
Speaker 5: thinking I had.
Speaker 3: A question, but I stopped myself. I'm like, I'm not
Speaker 3: asking a question.
Speaker 5: Judgment. You know you sent and you know.
Speaker 3: In therapy like it don't matter what you say. If
Speaker 3: once that forty five fifty minute come up, you could
Speaker 3: be like, you have docs.
Speaker 1: I just had an abortion yesterday and they're like, okay,
Speaker 1: do that up next week.
Speaker 6: I literally said, and on that note, on that note.
Speaker 5: Welcome you got to come back.
Speaker 6: Though, there are so many people our listeners who come
Speaker 6: up to us and say they just relate to wrestling
Speaker 6: with not knowing what to do in this moment, balancing
Speaker 6: micro trauma with macro, you know, from the government to
Speaker 6: what's happening all over the world, you know, really wanting
Speaker 6: a safe place to land. And while we convent with
Speaker 6: them and we can give them calls to action, we
Speaker 6: can't give them the psychological tools to combat the warfare
Speaker 6: they're experiencing on every side. So you know, you're always
Speaker 6: welcome back home, not just to counsel us, but to
Speaker 6: also counsel our audience.
Speaker 4: So we thank God for you and really appreciate you
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