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Speaker 1: Who doesn't love a satanic panic. That's a rhetorical question

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Speaker 1: and a troubling one. Welcome back to the show, fellow

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Speaker 1: conspiracy realist. We are introducing a classic episode about satanic panic,

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Speaker 1: not in the United States, but in the Atlantic.

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Speaker 2: No, that would be good if only if probably the

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Speaker 2: rhyme scheme work.

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Speaker 1: In Italy out in all of garden countries there you go, yeah.

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Speaker 3: Wow, well, but actually it makes a lot of sense.

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Speaker 4: Guys.

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Speaker 3: Where better to have a satanic panic than where the

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Speaker 3: Catholic Church is located.

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Speaker 5: From UFOs to psychic powers and government conspiracies, history is

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Speaker 5: riddled with unexplained events. You can turn back now or

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Speaker 5: learn this stuff they don't want you to know.

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Speaker 3: Welcome back to the show. My name is Matt, my

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Speaker 3: name is Nolan.

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Speaker 1: They called me Ben. It's good to be back. We

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Speaker 1: joined with our super producer Paul Decint as always and

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Speaker 1: most importantly, you are you. You are here, and that

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Speaker 1: makes this stuff they don't want you to know.

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Speaker 2: Matt, that Ben shaped hole from last time is filled

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Speaker 2: in with a Ben shaped figure.

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Speaker 3: Oh my gosh, it's filled in so much like he.

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Speaker 3: Not only did he go on adventures and come back,

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Speaker 3: he brought us gifts he did.

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Speaker 1: Oh thanks, yeah. Behind the behind the curtain, all of

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Speaker 1: our birthdays occur in a very close.

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Speaker 4: Span of time, totally unplanned.

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Speaker 1: Totally unplanned. Unless our parents are part of a conspiracy,

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Speaker 1: we have yet to discern.

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Speaker 4: We were all accidental births as well.

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Speaker 1: And I did not know that about you, Gil and Uh.

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Speaker 1: One of the practices that I personally like to do,

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Speaker 1: and I highly recommend anyone listening, is that when you

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Speaker 1: celebrate your birthday, the only real New Year's you get,

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Speaker 1: take some time to appreciate your friends and family, give

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Speaker 1: them presents instead. Think of it as a loyalty program,

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Speaker 1: but not as creepy as the big data grocery store cards.

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Speaker 3: Okay, I think we can all do that.

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Speaker 4: Wait, are you saying you don't use a Kroger Plus card? Man,

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Speaker 4: I still don't think. But they give you.

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Speaker 2: Such value and the gash It's.

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Speaker 3: The only way I can afford food for my family.

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Speaker 1: It's interesting, though, because if you're old enough to remember

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Speaker 1: the times before the introduction of those cards, the prices

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Speaker 1: were initially lower if you use the card, but then

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Speaker 1: they just upped the prices gradually on all the other products,

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Speaker 1: so you're getting the normal price.

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Speaker 4: Are seeing taking me for a ride?

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Speaker 1: I'm saying they're taking your data for a ride, for sure.

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Speaker 1: But speaking of rides, speaking of traveling, I want to

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Speaker 1: thank you guys for doing what I hear is a

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Speaker 1: fantastic episode while while I was away that you told

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Speaker 1: me that, Oh cool.

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Speaker 3: We got we got through it.

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Speaker 4: We did, We did get through it. Listeners right in

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Speaker 4: did we did? We say? But be nice?

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Speaker 3: Yeah?

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Speaker 1: I can't wait to hear it. It's only the It's

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Speaker 1: only the second episode I've ever missed, and I was.

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Speaker 1: I really missed you, guys, So it's great to be back.

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Speaker 1: And one place that I have not traveled to in

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Speaker 1: all this gallivanting and globe trotting is Italy. Have you

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Speaker 1: guys ever been to Italy?

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Speaker 3: Not once, but definitely I want to go there. I

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Speaker 3: would very much like to go, but not so much

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Speaker 3: after this episode.

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Speaker 1: Maybe not to Florence. Right spoilers, Hey, Paul, have you

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Speaker 1: ever been to Italy? Oh my gosh, so Paul just

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Speaker 1: said he's been to Italy and Florence. We might, uh,

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Speaker 1: we might consult you a little bit for some background

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Speaker 1: information today, Paul, what do we think of when we

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Speaker 1: think of Italy just just like off the top of

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Speaker 1: the Dome, first impressions.

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Speaker 4: Olives there we go.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I would say the canals of Venice.

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Speaker 4: Maybe gondolas also in Venice.

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Speaker 1: Pizza clearly, the Pope, yeah, making a return, Yes, yeah,

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Speaker 1: the Pope in the Vatican fresh steaming pasta maybe right,

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Speaker 1: And I.

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Speaker 4: Thought you're gonna say something else.

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Speaker 1: Perhaps that as well. Let's go the whole nine with

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Speaker 1: the stereotypes. Maybe somebody's singing amore right.

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Speaker 2: Possibly while piloting a gondola and wearing a black and

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Speaker 2: white striped shirt very similar to the one you wear

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Speaker 2: right now, Ben.

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Speaker 1: Oh mean, yeah, this one is. I think this is

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Speaker 1: from Korea. It was way hotter there than I thought

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Speaker 1: it would be. But beyond these images we see of Italy,

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Speaker 1: the country also has a dark side, a history of

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Speaker 1: violent murders that some allege border on the occult. And

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Speaker 1: he here are the facts. In today's episode, we're exploring

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Speaker 1: some of the most well known homicide cases in modern

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Speaker 1: Italian history. Will start with the Beasts of Satan and

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Speaker 1: then eventually will meet maybe the Monster of Florence. So

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Speaker 1: the Beasts of Satan. This is Beast's plural, yes, beasts

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Speaker 1: plural monster singular but asterisk. Yeah, right, so the beast

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Speaker 1: of Satan. This story begins in January of nineteen ninety

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Speaker 1: eight when two young people, two utes of Italy, Fabio

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Speaker 1: Tullis and Chara Marino, disappear. They're teenagers, they're both just

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Speaker 1: around sixteen. They have been drinking at a pub called

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Speaker 1: The Midnight.

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Speaker 4: Sounds like a respectable neighborhood, watering.

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Speaker 1: Home, real family place, but no.

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Speaker 2: As it turns out, it was sort of a meetup

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Speaker 2: spot for folks in like the black metal scene.

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Speaker 3: Right, yeah, yeah, the real dark stuff.

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Speaker 2: Which is, you know, the stuff like you hear about

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Speaker 2: with the Swedish death metal bands. Well black metal, I

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Speaker 2: think if we're talking stylistically, black metal has the witchier vocal.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, it's and death metals more.

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Speaker 1: Right right there, they were both involved in black metal

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Speaker 1: and death metal. I'm glad you brought up Scandinavia, Noel,

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Speaker 1: because a lot of members of black metal and death

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Speaker 1: metal bands in Scandinavia were implicated in church burnings, right,

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Speaker 1: That's what I was getting to.

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Speaker 2: And also even like the ones that maybe didn't actually

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Speaker 2: murder each other, like members of the band Mayhem.

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Speaker 4: I think you may remember hell Hammer, yeah exactly, or

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Speaker 4: that was that a guy or a band?

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Speaker 2: They all I can never I always confuse them because

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Speaker 2: they all have these crazy names. But there's there's a

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Speaker 2: story where the cover of a Mayhem record I believe,

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Speaker 2: had an actual image of a dude's suicide. Like they

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Speaker 2: walked in and this former band member had blown his

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Speaker 2: brains out and they took a picture of it. And

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Speaker 2: then there was a whole thing where one of the

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Speaker 2: members was implicated and stabbing one of the other members

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Speaker 2: to death many many times.

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Speaker 4: Then the church burning all in service of Satan, yeah,

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Speaker 4: I guess.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, or just psychological issues. There was also a little

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Speaker 1: bit of cannibalism alleged in that case.

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Speaker 3: So let's get let's get back to fab Fabio.

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Speaker 1: And Kiara Kiara Shara. Yeah, they were as we said,

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Speaker 1: they had sixteen. They were out drinking at the midnight,

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Speaker 1: participating in the heavy metal scene in Milan, and they

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Speaker 1: never came home. A lot of their friends claimed that

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Speaker 1: the two had just run off together, and the police

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Speaker 1: initially seemed to accept this explanation as well. However, Fabio's father,

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Speaker 1: a guy named Michelle Tolis, didn't buy it. He started

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Speaker 1: doing his own research, which we always applaud. He attended

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Speaker 1: metal concerts in this scene, and he went to festivals

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Speaker 1: not just in Italy but across Europe searching for his son.

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Speaker 1: And as we mentioned, Fabio and those in his circle

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Speaker 1: were into extremely extremely dark metal, the genres of death

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Speaker 1: metal and black metal, both known for their use of

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Speaker 1: gruesome satanic imagery like.

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Speaker 4: Corpse paint, right, corpse paint?

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Speaker 1: Yeah, which is the white and black stuff meant to

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Speaker 1: give you a pollor think of a less cartoonish kiss.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean a little more hardcore. And they were

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Speaker 2: even known for like carrying around severed or dead animals

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Speaker 2: in bags that they would smell before going on.

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Speaker 4: Stage, a real kind I don't know some of it.

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Speaker 2: You read these stories and you're like, is this all

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Speaker 2: just for show and kind of just like sort of

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Speaker 2: like an extreme version of punk rock or something, or

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Speaker 2: was their actual satanic ritual going on? Not really clear

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Speaker 2: even when you read the stories about these Scandinavian bands.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, how much of it is sort of Alice Cooper

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Speaker 1: performative stuff and how much of it is a reflection

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Speaker 1: of their genuine beliefs. The weird thing here is that

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Speaker 1: Fabio was very into this stuff, and it turned out

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Speaker 1: that his girlfriend also had a pretty extensive collection of

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Speaker 1: Satanic literature and quote paraphernalia. So paraphernalia, as we know,

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Speaker 1: is a pretty large term, right yeah, like glass pipes,

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Speaker 1: right yeah, right, like glass pipes. So this could have

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Speaker 1: been just chalices, could have been pentagrams, could have just

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Speaker 1: been jewelry.

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Speaker 3: Or things that maybe were even interpreted as Satanic investigators.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah. And in his search, Fabio's father became convinced

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Speaker 1: that the two had not just disappeared. He became convinced

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Speaker 1: that Satanism had something to do with his son's disappearance.

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Speaker 1: It did not help that Michelle felt his son's former

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Speaker 1: friends grew increasingly squirrely and evasive when he asked them

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Speaker 1: about the disappearance.

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Speaker 3: His friends, the people who should be there, like worried.

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Speaker 1: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: Can we also point out real quick, this is something

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Speaker 2: that's probably obvious to everybody that's that's looked into this stuff.

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Speaker 2: The idea of Satanism is often a huge misnomer because

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Speaker 2: like the Church of Satan and like Anton Levy, it's

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Speaker 2: much more of a it's not a joke religion but

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Speaker 2: it's like much more anti God than pro Satan, or

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Speaker 2: like anti religion in general than pro the deity of Satan.

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Speaker 4: He's a symbol of.

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Speaker 2: Like you know, revolution or liberation and kind of libertae,

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Speaker 2: like the French notion of that. So it's interesting to

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Speaker 2: see these things referred to as Satanic panics, like the

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Speaker 2: murders at robin Hood Hills, the Memphis ZIP six.

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Speaker 4: How many of them were there?

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Speaker 2: You know those kids there, the documentary is made about

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Speaker 2: them getting railroaded for these supposedly satanic ritualistic murders. Satanism

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Speaker 2: is they're not really about that kind of stuff.

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Speaker 1: Well, it's okay, So this is an interesting thing. Longtime

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Speaker 1: listeners you'll probably remember how we had covered this in

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Speaker 1: some earlier episodes, I believe. So there's the Satanism that

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Speaker 1: is typically referred to here in the US as exactly

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Speaker 1: what you're describing NOL the Anton Levey do as thou

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Speaker 1: wilt shall be the whole of the law, and that's

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Speaker 1: more about a spiritual liberation from rigid metaphysical hierarchies, right,

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Speaker 1: whether they're treated as metaphors or actual things. But there's

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Speaker 1: another genre of Satanism called deistic Satanism, meaning that yes,

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Speaker 1: there is a God, yes there is a great adversary,

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Speaker 1: and we're cool with the latter. Yeah, So there is

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Speaker 1: a difference. I think often for people who are experiencing

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Speaker 1: or civilizations, whether they're experiencing a Satanic panic, they're thinking

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Speaker 1: not of the more philosophical free yourself from free yourself

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Speaker 1: from Christian ideology kind of satanism. They're thinking of the

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Speaker 1: deistic the devil is alive. I hear them breathing kind

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Speaker 1: of satanists.

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Speaker 4: Oh absolutely.

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Speaker 2: I think what I was saying was more in reference

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Speaker 2: to the whole idea of the death metal bands and

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Speaker 2: black metal and all that. I don't know that that

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Speaker 2: is necessarily based on like doing any kind of devil

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Speaker 2: worship per se. It's more just like we hate God

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Speaker 2: and hate religion and think what represents is bad for

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Speaker 2: humanity in some way.

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Speaker 4: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: And interestingly enough, it's a misnomer that goes beyond the

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Speaker 1: label of Satanism, because a lot of Scandinavian metal bands

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Speaker 1: in particular are rejecting Christianity and in turn embracing a

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Speaker 1: neo pagan approach. So they're worshiping Woden and things like

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Speaker 1: that so to them, Christianity is an impressive force, which

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Speaker 1: historically is very true.

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Speaker 2: It can be a little heavy handed, as history has shown.

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Speaker 4: But let's get back into the beasts.

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Speaker 1: So, as I was saying, Michelle spent six years on

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Speaker 1: his own, out in the cold, on this search, and

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Speaker 1: he was extensively documenting connections between the people his son knew,

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Speaker 1: his quote unquote friends from the metal scene and their

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Speaker 1: areas where they hung out, their haunts, if I could

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Speaker 1: do that word, yeah, their bands and their mutual associates

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Speaker 1: and connections. And in two thousand and four, Michelle is

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Speaker 1: watching the news when he learns of a brutal murder

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Speaker 1: in a nearby town, Soma, Lombardo. A young man named

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Speaker 1: Andrea Volpe is arrested for killing his ex girlfriend, a

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Speaker 1: woman named Mary Angela Pezzotta, and Vulpe quickly admits to

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Speaker 1: the crime. You got me, I did it, not framed. Michelle, however,

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Speaker 1: recognizes this name. You see. It turns out that Volpe

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Speaker 1: played in a band with Michelle's son, Fabio.

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Speaker 4: Oh geez.

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Speaker 1: So six years later, he decides to call the police

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Speaker 1: and they're impressed, but initially they're skeptical. Of course, there's

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Speaker 1: nothing law enforcement hates more than a self appointed law expert. Absolutely,

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Speaker 1: and so they find when he presents his evidence that

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Speaker 1: he has actually done a bang up job with his investigation.

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Speaker 1: They're impressed by the thoroughness of it and the quality.

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Speaker 1: They actually use his work, his research. When they're interrogating

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Speaker 1: Volpe about the disappearances, and he breaks Yeah, he confesses.

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Speaker 1: He says, your son and his girlfriend didn't just disappear,

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Speaker 1: they were murdered. Furthermore, he tells police, I can show

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Speaker 1: you where they are buried.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, my god.

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Speaker 3: And it turns out that this other dude, another one

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Speaker 3: of Fabio's friends, this guy named Mario Macione or Machione,

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Speaker 3: he confessed himself to the murder of these two individuals.

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Speaker 3: He said he'd beaten Fabio to death with a hammer,

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Speaker 3: of all things. And then he also revealed that he

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Speaker 3: was not the only person involved in these murders, and

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Speaker 3: there were actually a group of them, a group of boys.

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Speaker 3: They were part of this network. It was a Satanic

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Speaker 3: community that called itself.

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Speaker 1: The Beast of Satan?

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Speaker 2: Was that also the name of their band? Because that

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Speaker 2: is a real missed opportunity.

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Speaker 1: If it wasn't I believe it was the I believe

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Speaker 1: it was the network's name. It may have been a

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Speaker 1: name for a band as well, but it was definitely

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Speaker 1: the name of this conspiracy, and this is an act

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Speaker 1: of conspiracy. Police also learned that, in addition to murdering

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Speaker 1: these two children, there was a drummer in the metal

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Speaker 1: scene named Andrea Bontade who had been driven to suicide

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Speaker 1: by the same group. They gasled him, they got in

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Speaker 1: his head, they emotionally, mentally terrorized him, until one day

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Speaker 1: he committed suicide. He ended his life by purposely crashing

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Speaker 1: his car while inebriated. And we have to stop for

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Speaker 1: one note here. It's a little bit difficult in those

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Speaker 1: sorts of cases, is to know for sure, beyond the

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Speaker 1: shadow of a doubt, that a weather a drunk driver

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Speaker 1: meant to kill themselves in a vehicle. Absolutely so, it

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Speaker 1: could have been that he was just depressed and too

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Speaker 1: drunk to drive, But the press and law enforcement treated

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Speaker 1: it as a suicide. And while this is all happening,

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Speaker 1: Italy at the time, a very conservative, very Catholic country,

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Speaker 1: already has this boiling fear right just simmering right under

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Speaker 1: the surface. And the fear is that there would be

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Speaker 1: some arcane, some hidden, some occulted, occult network, a little

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Speaker 1: wordplay there that is actively undermining the power of the

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Speaker 1: church and is a threat to good Christians or good

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Speaker 1: Catholics everywhere. And this story, the Beast of Satan, this

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Speaker 1: is the powder keg that ignites in Italian culture, and

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Speaker 1: a genuine Satanic pan hits the zeitgeist. Again, it had

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Speaker 1: already been there under the surface. And if you look

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Speaker 1: at the timeline, similar things are happening in the United States.

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Speaker 1: I'm sure anybody alive during the late eighties early nineties

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Speaker 1: can recall that. It goes back to Memphis too, like

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Speaker 1: you had just mentioned ol and he goes back to

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Speaker 1: talk shows, Yeah, and it goes back to talk shows too, Matt,

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Speaker 1: You're right, I.

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Speaker 4: Blame Marilyn Manson.

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Speaker 1: Oh yeah, you leave Brian out of this.

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Speaker 4: Oh, haven't seen him lately. He is a mess.

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Speaker 1: He is a big, old sloppy mess. He's not quite

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Speaker 1: Billy Corgan mess.

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Speaker 4: Ye.

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Speaker 2: When I say a mess, I just mean like every

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Speaker 2: time he's on camera talking that he seems like completely

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Speaker 2: drunk at yeah of his mind.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, fames of Fickle Mistress for sure. And this panic. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: Panic's a good word for it. This panic hit police

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Speaker 1: just as much as it hit the public and the tabloids,

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Speaker 1: so much so that in the course of this event investigation,

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Speaker 1: they decide they will create a special unit focusing on

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Speaker 1: quote new religious sects, particularly Satanist of any variety and

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Speaker 1: violent quote ritualistic groups. They want to coordinate nationwide investigations

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Speaker 1: into potentially dangerous new religious movements, and they plan to

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Speaker 1: include not only psychologists and investigators, but a priest who

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Speaker 1: is an expert on the occult. That sounds like wow,

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Speaker 1: comic book in the making, doesn't it.

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Speaker 3: It really does, but it seems like probably the right

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Speaker 3: move if of this is the kind of thing you're targeting.

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Speaker 1: And if you want to learn more about the context

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Speaker 1: of Italy at this time, check out our episode on

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Speaker 1: the Vatican and exorcism, especially the chief exorcist.

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Speaker 3: Right what is it? Father a more No, what's his name? Amorth,

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Speaker 3: which you can find a documentary on Netflix on Netflix

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Speaker 3: about right.

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Speaker 1: Now and he is a very conservative man. He also

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Speaker 1: associates Harry Potter with the rise of Satanism. Several other

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Speaker 1: people are convicted in the trials that result in this

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Speaker 1: beast of Satan investigation, Paolo Leoni, marcos Ampoalo Aros, Manteroso,

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Speaker 1: Elizabeta Ballerin and the leader, a plumber named Nicola Sapone

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Speaker 1: who is not a musician, but is the spiritual guru

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Speaker 1: of this group and is thought to have been the

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Speaker 1: sort of Charles Manson behind the murders. Right, so maybe

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Speaker 1: not himself wielding the hammer in this case, but being

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Speaker 1: the operative mental force behind it. And this means that

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Speaker 1: in at least one case, although people will say that

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Speaker 1: Satanic panics are often overblown, in at least one case

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Speaker 1: here there was an active Satanic conspiracy occurring in Italy, confirmed,

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Speaker 1: proven and real, and luckily fortunately officially solved officially. You're right, officially,

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Speaker 1: but that takes us to another case and something even

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Speaker 1: more I guess notorious would be a good word. This

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Speaker 1: is going to contain some graphic sexual content. I want you

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Speaker 1: to know that before heading in. This may not be

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Speaker 1: suitable for all listeners. This is the story of the

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Speaker 1: Monster of Florence.

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Speaker 4: Which we will get to right after a quick break.

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Speaker 3: And we're back and we're going to jump into the

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Speaker 3: Monster of Florence. In the nineteen eighties, there were a

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Speaker 3: series of murders, the first of which that was discovered

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Speaker 3: by police. It looked a little something like this, and

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Speaker 3: as Ben mentioned before, this is going to get graphic,

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Speaker 3: so please stop listening if you need to. Someone was

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Speaker 3: finding that were out in the in the countryside around Florence,

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Speaker 3: and inside these cars there were usually a male and

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Speaker 3: a female who were a bit younger, at least one

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Speaker 3: of them was a bit younger, usually unmarried, and they

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Speaker 3: were engaging in amorous acts in their vehicles.

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Speaker 4: And it's really interesting.

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Speaker 2: There's an article, really more of an account, a true

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Speaker 2: crime story called the Monster of Florence by Douglas Preston

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Speaker 2: from the Atlantic, where he points out that for it's

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Speaker 2: just kind of a historical thing in Italy that folks

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Speaker 2: would live with their parents until they got married, and

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Speaker 2: so this culture of like having sex in cars very

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Speaker 2: much a thing. And they were even kind of creepers

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Speaker 2: that were called like Indiani, I believe, which is a

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Speaker 2: little bit of a racially problematic term because it translates

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Speaker 2: to Indians. It meant kind of people kind of creeping around,

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Speaker 2: you know, so not the best look in terms of

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Speaker 2: racial sensitivity there. But they would even like have like

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Speaker 2: listening devices, and it was like a total culture of

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Speaker 2: this kind of behavior. So I just want to point

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Speaker 2: that out in front, that this wasn't just like an

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Speaker 2: isolated event, and it was a total hunting ground for

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Speaker 2: the person we're about to talk about.

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Speaker 3: Yes, so lover's lanes.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, even people who were engaged to be married would

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Speaker 1: still participate in this. So in June of nineteen eighty one,

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Speaker 1: June sixth, this is one of the first cases they

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Speaker 1: find initially, although there's another There are another couple that

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Speaker 1: we'll get to later, a couple of cases. Rather. There's

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Speaker 1: a guy named Giovanni Fogi Foggi. He works at a warehouse.

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Speaker 1: He's thirty years old. His fiancee is I went a

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Speaker 1: little southern there. His fiance is a shop assistant named

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Speaker 1: Carmela Dinuccio, and they are found shot to death and

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Speaker 1: stabbed near the town where they both live, an area

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Speaker 1: called Scandici. Denuto's body was pulled out of the car,

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Speaker 1: and this is the graphic part. The killer had cut

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Speaker 1: out her pubic area.

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Speaker 2: Her the entire her reproductive work, and not just cut

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Speaker 2: out like some sort of brutal, you know, blunt instrument act.

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Speaker 2: It was an act of precision, of almost surgical precision.

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Speaker 1: And the next morning a guy who was known to

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Speaker 1: be one of these peeping Tom characters, a paramedic by

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Speaker 1: trade named Enzo Spillati, went around and apparently was talking

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Speaker 1: in town about the murder before the corpses have been

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Speaker 1: officially discovered. So he gets arrested, just bracket him will

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Speaker 1: come back. He's in jail for about three months at

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Speaker 1: this time, and the police don't really have any leads,

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Speaker 1: but let me clarify something here, so we said nineteen

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Speaker 1: eighty one, right June of nineteen eighty one, that's when

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Speaker 1: the police find the bodies of Giovanni and Carmela. They

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Speaker 1: also at some point think they're there might be other

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Speaker 1: things occurring. Other murders start happening. In October twenty third

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Speaker 1: of the same year, a couple Stefano Baldi and Susanna Camby,

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Speaker 1: are also engaged. They're going to be married. They're in

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Speaker 1: a car and they are found shot to death and stabbed.

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Speaker 1: Another wrinkle occurs here because an anonymous person calls Susanna

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Speaker 1: Camby's mother the morning after the murder to talk about

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Speaker 1: her daughter, and a few days before the murder, it

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Speaker 1: turns out Susanna had told her mother that there was

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Speaker 1: someone stalking her, chasing her by car. And then another

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Speaker 1: murder occurs in June nineteenth, nineteen eighty two, Paolo Maynardi

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Speaker 1: and Antonola Miguelorini. I should say apologies for our pronunciation

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Speaker 1: of the Italian names here also engaged they are. They

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Speaker 1: are found shot to death, but this time the killer

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Speaker 1: does not mutilate the theme victim. She is still alive

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Speaker 1: when she is found, but she dies a few hours

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Speaker 1: later at the hospital. And it looks like when the

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Speaker 1: police are trying to reconstruct this, that the killer drove

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Speaker 1: the car a few feet to hide the vehicle and

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Speaker 1: corpses in a wooded area, but then lost control of

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Speaker 1: the car and eventually abandoned the scene. And that's when

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Speaker 1: something even more strange happened, because originally now the police

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Speaker 1: believe these murders begin sometime in the eighties, right, But

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Speaker 1: twelve days after that murder, in June of nineteen eighty two,

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Speaker 1: the police in Florence received an anonymous letter.

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Speaker 2: It's right inside was an aged clipping from La Nazione,

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Speaker 2: which was the paper of note, and it was about

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Speaker 2: a kind of long forgotten double murder from nineteen teen

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Speaker 2: sixty eight, where a man and a woman were slain

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00:26:05,240 --> 00:26:08,280
Speaker 2: while having sex in a parked car, and scrawled on

438
00:26:08,320 --> 00:26:12,000
Speaker 2: the article was a little bit of advice said, take

439
00:26:12,080 --> 00:26:13,840
Speaker 2: another look at this crime.

440
00:26:14,200 --> 00:26:18,720
Speaker 1: And that's it. No fingerprints, no forensic evidence. This was clean.

441
00:26:19,560 --> 00:26:23,120
Speaker 1: So someone had at least taken the care to make

442
00:26:23,160 --> 00:26:24,680
Speaker 1: sure it was truly anonymous.

443
00:26:24,760 --> 00:26:24,840
Speaker 3: Right.

444
00:26:26,480 --> 00:26:32,120
Speaker 1: The nineteen sixty eight murder had previously been considered solved.

445
00:26:32,200 --> 00:26:35,560
Speaker 1: It occurred on August twenty first a worker, a mason

446
00:26:35,600 --> 00:26:41,000
Speaker 1: worker named Antonio Lo Bianco and Barbara Locchi were shot

447
00:26:41,040 --> 00:26:44,320
Speaker 1: to death with a twenty two burretta in a small

448
00:26:44,359 --> 00:26:50,280
Speaker 1: town west of Florence. Unfortunately, there was a kid asleep

449
00:26:50,440 --> 00:26:53,800
Speaker 1: in the car. Yeah, woke up, found some other dead.

450
00:26:54,520 --> 00:26:57,560
Speaker 1: Jesus ran to a nearby house like two in the morning,

451
00:26:58,359 --> 00:27:02,040
Speaker 1: opened the door, let me in. Get this. I'm tired

452
00:27:02,560 --> 00:27:08,200
Speaker 1: and my dad's sick in bed. He has to drive

453
00:27:08,240 --> 00:27:10,399
Speaker 1: me home. My mom and my uncle are dead in

454
00:27:10,440 --> 00:27:13,679
Speaker 1: the car. That's right. The woman who was in the

455
00:27:13,720 --> 00:27:17,480
Speaker 1: car was married, and she was not. The guy she

456
00:27:17,560 --> 00:27:20,920
Speaker 1: was sleeping with was not her husband. Her husband was

457
00:27:20,960 --> 00:27:25,240
Speaker 1: a man named Stefano Melee and he was arrested for

458
00:27:25,320 --> 00:27:25,800
Speaker 1: this crime.

459
00:27:25,880 --> 00:27:26,280
Speaker 4: That's right.

460
00:27:26,320 --> 00:27:30,200
Speaker 2: He was an immigrant from Sardinia, and they actually did

461
00:27:30,200 --> 00:27:33,159
Speaker 2: a test on him that showed that he had recently

462
00:27:33,280 --> 00:27:38,200
Speaker 2: fired a gun, a handgun, and he confessed to doing

463
00:27:38,240 --> 00:27:43,439
Speaker 2: this murder, these murders in an act of just, you know,

464
00:27:43,880 --> 00:27:45,680
Speaker 2: complete passionate jealousy.

465
00:27:46,280 --> 00:27:51,080
Speaker 1: Hees not premeditated. That that was his initial argument. He

466
00:27:51,119 --> 00:27:54,640
Speaker 1: would spend six years in jail, and it was considered

467
00:27:54,680 --> 00:27:58,840
Speaker 1: an open and shut case until other very similar murders occurred,

468
00:27:58,920 --> 00:28:02,240
Speaker 1: and when the nineteen eighty one murders were committed, and

469
00:28:03,320 --> 00:28:06,400
Speaker 1: it was demonstrably true that he could not have committed

470
00:28:06,400 --> 00:28:08,200
Speaker 1: these because he was.

471
00:28:09,400 --> 00:28:11,120
Speaker 3: Yeah, he was incarcerated at the time.

472
00:28:11,000 --> 00:28:15,400
Speaker 1: Right, he would not have been capable physically doing these murders.

473
00:28:15,600 --> 00:28:20,920
Speaker 1: And he became the number one interview that Italian journalists

474
00:28:20,960 --> 00:28:23,920
Speaker 1: wanted to acquire. And then he said something very troubling

475
00:28:24,520 --> 00:28:27,320
Speaker 1: in an interview with Spezi, which I found in that

476
00:28:27,520 --> 00:28:33,000
Speaker 1: Atlantic article that think we mentioned earlier. He is pacing around,

477
00:28:33,040 --> 00:28:37,160
Speaker 1: He seems a little discombobulated, but he mutters, they need

478
00:28:37,200 --> 00:28:39,960
Speaker 1: to figure out where that pistol is otherwise there will

479
00:28:40,000 --> 00:28:45,320
Speaker 1: be more murders. They will continue to kill, they will continue.

480
00:28:45,560 --> 00:28:46,400
Speaker 1: That's right, folks.

481
00:28:47,280 --> 00:28:50,760
Speaker 3: They yeah, a single pistol and they so.

482
00:28:50,720 --> 00:28:52,720
Speaker 2: When I take a quick moment to give props to

483
00:28:52,760 --> 00:28:55,680
Speaker 2: this guy, Mario Spezi, who kind of became a hot

484
00:28:55,680 --> 00:29:00,320
Speaker 2: shot crime reporter in Italy around this time and was

485
00:29:00,440 --> 00:29:05,720
Speaker 2: the guy who the inspector in Thomas Harris's sequel to

486
00:29:05,800 --> 00:29:08,400
Speaker 2: Sounds of the Lamb's Hannibal was based on, and in fact,

487
00:29:08,440 --> 00:29:12,320
Speaker 2: that story in general was inspired by these cases, and

488
00:29:12,440 --> 00:29:15,640
Speaker 2: Harris himself went to a lot of the trials and

489
00:29:16,160 --> 00:29:18,760
Speaker 2: spoke to Spezzi in person and was a big part

490
00:29:18,760 --> 00:29:22,000
Speaker 2: of this whole world. And I believe Bezzi was even

491
00:29:22,000 --> 00:29:25,200
Speaker 2: a little irritated that a spoiler alert for Hannibal, the

492
00:29:25,280 --> 00:29:27,200
Speaker 2: character that was based on him, gets hung by his

493
00:29:27,240 --> 00:29:30,240
Speaker 2: own guts out of the balcony of a piazza.

494
00:29:31,400 --> 00:29:36,960
Speaker 1: And this statement, this plural statement, they will continue to kill,

495
00:29:37,480 --> 00:29:42,360
Speaker 1: led journalists and investigators in police to believe that Mele,

496
00:29:42,600 --> 00:29:46,760
Speaker 1: while responsible for the nineteen sixty eight murder, had not

497
00:29:46,920 --> 00:29:51,240
Speaker 1: acted alone, had not acted in a fit of passion.

498
00:29:52,160 --> 00:29:56,200
Speaker 1: It had not been a spontaneous crime, but rather what

499
00:29:56,240 --> 00:30:00,280
Speaker 1: they call a diletto des clan, a clan killing which

500
00:30:00,320 --> 00:30:03,320
Speaker 1: others from what would later be called the Sardinian Circle

501
00:30:03,680 --> 00:30:07,280
Speaker 1: had participated, so investigators started to theorize that one of

502
00:30:07,320 --> 00:30:10,960
Speaker 1: the killers had enjoyed this experience in nineteen sixty eight,

503
00:30:11,120 --> 00:30:13,640
Speaker 1: so much so that he had gone on to become

504
00:30:13,720 --> 00:30:18,480
Speaker 1: the Monster of Florence, using, in a massive stroke of stupidity,

505
00:30:18,760 --> 00:30:23,959
Speaker 1: the same gun. And the next murder cases that proceed

506
00:30:24,120 --> 00:30:28,720
Speaker 1: after this, after nineteen eighty two on through nineteen eighty

507
00:30:28,760 --> 00:30:31,880
Speaker 1: three and up to nineteen eighty five, they were all

508
00:30:31,880 --> 00:30:36,040
Speaker 1: connected by location type by them, you know, people in

509
00:30:36,160 --> 00:30:40,240
Speaker 1: cars sleeping together, and the same twenty two caliber casings

510
00:30:40,320 --> 00:30:42,200
Speaker 1: that were found at crime scenes.

511
00:30:42,280 --> 00:30:45,000
Speaker 2: And I believe that they all had the same unique

512
00:30:45,400 --> 00:30:48,719
Speaker 2: signature of the muzzle of that Barretta in question.

513
00:30:48,920 --> 00:30:51,520
Speaker 4: Yeah, I think persisted throughout these cases.

514
00:30:52,040 --> 00:30:57,280
Speaker 1: That's correct, And we know a little bit about the

515
00:30:57,320 --> 00:31:01,760
Speaker 1: method of attack. The killer would wait until the couple

516
00:31:02,520 --> 00:31:06,240
Speaker 1: was engaged in intimate activity so their guard would be

517
00:31:06,320 --> 00:31:11,840
Speaker 1: down right, and then typically shoot the male first and

518
00:31:12,080 --> 00:31:15,600
Speaker 1: use a flashlight to both illuminate the vehicle and lower

519
00:31:15,640 --> 00:31:19,320
Speaker 1: the chances of the killer being clearly identified, and then

520
00:31:19,320 --> 00:31:22,400
Speaker 1: they would shoot the female occupant. Then they would use

521
00:31:22,440 --> 00:31:25,960
Speaker 1: a knife to stab both victims multiple times, which tells

522
00:31:26,000 --> 00:31:29,080
Speaker 1: us a little bit about the emotional state of the killer,

523
00:31:29,600 --> 00:31:33,920
Speaker 1: because a gunshot would already have for lack of a

524
00:31:33,960 --> 00:31:39,680
Speaker 1: better phrase, done the task at least right, depending on

525
00:31:39,720 --> 00:31:41,440
Speaker 1: how you shoot someone with the twenty two, they could

526
00:31:41,480 --> 00:31:46,680
Speaker 1: die quite quickly, right, So the stabbing seems to be

527
00:31:47,000 --> 00:31:50,600
Speaker 1: an active rage of some sort. Then the body of

528
00:31:50,640 --> 00:31:53,160
Speaker 1: the female victim was dragged away and the knife was

529
00:31:53,280 --> 00:31:57,200
Speaker 1: used to mutilate them, the same knife most likely used

530
00:31:57,400 --> 00:32:00,360
Speaker 1: to do the stabbing after the initial shooting.

531
00:32:00,120 --> 00:32:02,000
Speaker 2: Which I think I read would have been the kind

532
00:32:02,040 --> 00:32:04,240
Speaker 2: of knife that a scuba diver would use that has

533
00:32:04,320 --> 00:32:07,400
Speaker 2: kind of a hook on it notches. Yeah, and again

534
00:32:07,520 --> 00:32:11,480
Speaker 2: that very surgical precision. And one of the murders, I

535
00:32:11,520 --> 00:32:15,560
Speaker 2: think only one, I believe a breast was removed as well,

536
00:32:16,480 --> 00:32:19,680
Speaker 2: so it was definitely someone who's theorized that they might

537
00:32:19,720 --> 00:32:22,360
Speaker 2: have been a butcher or possibly someone that had some

538
00:32:22,480 --> 00:32:24,840
Speaker 2: experience in a surgical theater.

539
00:32:25,120 --> 00:32:28,640
Speaker 1: And there was a later correspondence where a single left

540
00:32:28,720 --> 00:32:31,440
Speaker 1: nipple was mailed to law enforcement.

541
00:32:31,760 --> 00:32:36,080
Speaker 3: Yeah, okay, so we haven't got into There's a lot

542
00:32:36,120 --> 00:32:39,080
Speaker 3: more about this case, and we need to keep exploring,

543
00:32:39,480 --> 00:32:41,400
Speaker 3: and we'll do that right after a quick word from

544
00:32:41,400 --> 00:32:42,000
Speaker 3: our sponsor.

545
00:32:48,680 --> 00:32:53,240
Speaker 1: Here's where it gets crazy. To this day, as we

546
00:32:53,280 --> 00:32:59,719
Speaker 1: record this in twenty eighteen, despite multiple investigations, despite numerous trials,

547
00:33:00,120 --> 00:33:04,560
Speaker 1: the case of the Monster of Florence remains officially unsolved.

548
00:33:05,200 --> 00:33:09,200
Speaker 1: Multiple people were arrested and even convicted over the years,

549
00:33:09,560 --> 00:33:13,160
Speaker 1: but further killings using the same gun that twenty two

550
00:33:13,320 --> 00:33:17,680
Speaker 1: under the same circumstances. While these suspects were imprisoned, ultimately

551
00:33:17,800 --> 00:33:23,000
Speaker 1: exonerated them. Investigators questioned more than one hundred thousand people

552
00:33:23,080 --> 00:33:26,360
Speaker 1: to some degree in hopes of gathering new evidence, and

553
00:33:26,400 --> 00:33:31,320
Speaker 1: they had numerous suspects. Remember Enzo Spillati we have mentioned earlier.

554
00:33:31,800 --> 00:33:35,040
Speaker 1: He was the ambulance driver who was initially suspected his

555
00:33:35,200 --> 00:33:38,480
Speaker 1: car been parked near the scene of the crime, and

556
00:33:38,520 --> 00:33:42,200
Speaker 1: as law enforcement officers asked him more and more questions,

557
00:33:42,400 --> 00:33:48,840
Speaker 1: he gave vague, conflicting alibis, probably because he didn't want

558
00:33:48,880 --> 00:33:51,320
Speaker 1: to say that he was a voyeur part of that

559
00:33:51,440 --> 00:33:56,040
Speaker 1: culture we mentioned earlier. More evidence revealed that he had

560
00:33:56,080 --> 00:33:58,680
Speaker 1: told his wife about this incident before it was announced

561
00:33:58,680 --> 00:34:01,960
Speaker 1: in the paper. He was charged with two counts of homicide.

562
00:34:02,000 --> 00:34:05,880
Speaker 1: He was sent to prison to stand trial several months later, However,

563
00:34:06,000 --> 00:34:08,600
Speaker 1: a new murder led police to believe they got the

564
00:34:08,640 --> 00:34:12,280
Speaker 1: wrong guy. He was just a creepy dude, not a murderer.

565
00:34:12,840 --> 00:34:16,919
Speaker 1: But they also questioned a farmer named Pietro Pazziani, who

566
00:34:17,120 --> 00:34:20,920
Speaker 1: was a former rapist and murderer who had been arrested

567
00:34:20,960 --> 00:34:26,040
Speaker 1: in nineteen fifty one when he caught his fiance sleeping

568
00:34:26,040 --> 00:34:28,080
Speaker 1: with a traveling salesman and killed the guy.

569
00:34:28,160 --> 00:34:30,560
Speaker 2: And here's the thing about him too. Even his family,

570
00:34:30,920 --> 00:34:34,240
Speaker 2: who admittedly hated the guy because he was a drunk

571
00:34:34,520 --> 00:34:39,000
Speaker 2: and an abusive bully. Even they said, yeah, this guy's

572
00:34:39,239 --> 00:34:43,840
Speaker 2: the worst, but he didn't do this. And you know,

573
00:34:44,120 --> 00:34:49,719
Speaker 2: our journalist friend Spetsy also didn't buy it, because you know,

574
00:34:49,800 --> 00:34:54,840
Speaker 2: these were very precisely carried out acts with that surgical

575
00:34:54,880 --> 00:34:55,760
Speaker 2: attention to detail.

576
00:34:55,800 --> 00:34:59,000
Speaker 4: And this guy was kind of a big, bumbling, drunken buffoon.

577
00:34:59,320 --> 00:35:03,440
Speaker 3: Yeah, but they he also investigators thought he was quite intelligent.

578
00:35:04,360 --> 00:35:05,800
Speaker 3: Investigators thought he was quite.

579
00:35:05,640 --> 00:35:07,680
Speaker 1: Intelligent despite his alcoholism.

580
00:35:07,920 --> 00:35:12,040
Speaker 3: Yes, and he was. He stated, like, just listen to this,

581
00:35:12,280 --> 00:35:14,760
Speaker 3: that nineteen fifty one murder where he found his fiance

582
00:35:14,880 --> 00:35:18,000
Speaker 3: in the car with a traveling salesman. He said in

583
00:35:18,040 --> 00:35:22,680
Speaker 3: the trial that he he saw the image of her

584
00:35:22,800 --> 00:35:25,200
Speaker 3: left breast. When he looked in the car and saw

585
00:35:25,239 --> 00:35:28,719
Speaker 3: her left breast with another man in the car, it

586
00:35:28,960 --> 00:35:31,120
Speaker 3: sent him into a rage and he killed that man.

587
00:35:31,280 --> 00:35:33,520
Speaker 2: Wasn't that one of the things that led them to

588
00:35:34,040 --> 00:35:36,360
Speaker 2: connect it with him because of the severed left.

589
00:35:36,080 --> 00:35:40,479
Speaker 3: Breast and just the you know, his fiance, the love

590
00:35:40,520 --> 00:35:43,480
Speaker 3: of his life supposedly or whatever was cheating on him

591
00:35:43,480 --> 00:35:45,319
Speaker 3: and all this, and it's just like the rage that

592
00:35:45,400 --> 00:35:47,120
Speaker 3: he went through, right, But it.

593
00:35:47,040 --> 00:35:48,600
Speaker 4: Was it was the left breast of one of the

594
00:35:48,680 --> 00:35:49,560
Speaker 4: victims that was removed.

595
00:35:49,680 --> 00:35:52,319
Speaker 1: Yes, I get this. At the time of this new investigation,

596
00:35:52,719 --> 00:35:58,680
Speaker 1: he's already been released after serving check it out, thirteen

597
00:35:58,800 --> 00:36:01,839
Speaker 1: years in prison for ordering this guy in fifty one.

598
00:36:01,960 --> 00:36:03,080
Speaker 1: That's it, thirteen years.

599
00:36:03,280 --> 00:36:05,080
Speaker 3: So yeah, he's been out of prison for a while.

600
00:36:05,160 --> 00:36:07,680
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's the price you pay, thirteen years. Think about

601
00:36:07,680 --> 00:36:12,040
Speaker 1: it when you're in Italy. But in trial in nineteen

602
00:36:12,120 --> 00:36:17,719
Speaker 1: ninety four, he is convicted for fourteen of the sixteen

603
00:36:17,880 --> 00:36:21,040
Speaker 1: counts of murder attributed to the Monster of Florence, all

604
00:36:21,520 --> 00:36:24,719
Speaker 1: many tied together with the use of this twenty two

605
00:36:25,560 --> 00:36:31,840
Speaker 1: because there is supposedly a twenty two caliber round found

606
00:36:32,000 --> 00:36:34,840
Speaker 1: in his garden. More or less the European word for

607
00:36:35,120 --> 00:36:38,640
Speaker 1: yards that we would use in the States, and this

608
00:36:38,800 --> 00:36:42,840
Speaker 1: round matched the rounds used in the monster slains. However,

609
00:36:44,200 --> 00:36:47,319
Speaker 1: I believe it was Spezi who, when he was on

610
00:36:47,360 --> 00:36:51,759
Speaker 1: assignment from a television station, videotaped a police officer at

611
00:36:51,760 --> 00:36:54,680
Speaker 1: the search of the property saying that this is the

612
00:36:54,719 --> 00:36:58,200
Speaker 1: police officer talking. And the police officer said he believed

613
00:36:58,200 --> 00:37:02,480
Speaker 1: the chief inspector had planted this round in that guy's garden.

614
00:37:02,280 --> 00:37:03,720
Speaker 4: And it was an unspent round.

615
00:37:05,040 --> 00:37:07,280
Speaker 2: It was it wasn't a casing, and it certainly didn't

616
00:37:07,280 --> 00:37:09,560
Speaker 2: have the markings in question of the of the weapon

617
00:37:09,600 --> 00:37:10,560
Speaker 2: we're talking about.

618
00:37:10,520 --> 00:37:14,560
Speaker 1: Right, right, So it's not it's not anywhere near as

619
00:37:14,640 --> 00:37:18,520
Speaker 1: rock solid as perhaps some factions of law enforcement wanted

620
00:37:18,560 --> 00:37:22,120
Speaker 1: people to believe. And in nineteen ninety six and Appeal's

621
00:37:22,120 --> 00:37:27,719
Speaker 1: court overturns this conviction. They say, a lack of solid evidence.

622
00:37:28,239 --> 00:37:29,879
Speaker 2: Yeah, and it's crazy because in fact, this is something

623
00:37:29,920 --> 00:37:32,839
Speaker 2: you just don't even hear happening. The prosecutor who was

624
00:37:33,160 --> 00:37:38,000
Speaker 2: on the case actually refused to prosecute because it had

625
00:37:38,000 --> 00:37:42,439
Speaker 2: been such a just an abomination of justice. He said

626
00:37:42,440 --> 00:37:44,319
Speaker 2: it was something like the level of it was like

627
00:37:44,360 --> 00:37:48,480
Speaker 2: the work of Inspector Clouseau, the famous bumbling pink panther detective.

628
00:37:48,880 --> 00:37:54,000
Speaker 2: And he was acquitted and it was sent back to

629
00:37:54,040 --> 00:37:58,360
Speaker 2: be retried. But he actually Paciani passed away in February

630
00:37:58,400 --> 00:38:02,000
Speaker 2: of nineteen ninety eight, or this new trial could could happen.

631
00:38:02,640 --> 00:38:06,160
Speaker 1: So there's some stuff that happens before he passes away. Yeah,

632
00:38:06,239 --> 00:38:10,960
Speaker 1: the investigators, despite the overturning for the lack of evidence,

633
00:38:11,640 --> 00:38:14,919
Speaker 1: and despite the advocacy of the foreign prosecutor, the investigators

634
00:38:15,680 --> 00:38:17,960
Speaker 1: still believe that Pacianni is guilty.

635
00:38:18,200 --> 00:38:20,960
Speaker 3: Yeah, even though he's you know, it's been overturned.

636
00:38:20,680 --> 00:38:24,560
Speaker 1: Right, they believe they've found evidence the monsters not acting alone.

637
00:38:25,120 --> 00:38:29,360
Speaker 1: And they get a confession from two other guys that

638
00:38:29,440 --> 00:38:31,360
Speaker 1: are friends of Passianni's.

639
00:38:30,840 --> 00:38:36,560
Speaker 3: Yeah, Mario Vanni and gian Carlo Lotti, and they confess,

640
00:38:36,640 --> 00:38:38,960
Speaker 3: like they sat down and they confessed, Yes, we helped

641
00:38:39,080 --> 00:38:43,520
Speaker 3: Paciani kill these guys, kill these people. And these two

642
00:38:43,560 --> 00:38:46,720
Speaker 3: men end up getting convicted for four of the double murders.

643
00:38:47,120 --> 00:38:49,480
Speaker 3: Vanni was given life in prison and Lottie was given

644
00:38:49,520 --> 00:38:51,480
Speaker 3: a reduced sentence of twenty six years.

645
00:38:52,520 --> 00:38:57,279
Speaker 1: And at this point in the investigation, this is you know,

646
00:38:57,280 --> 00:38:59,400
Speaker 1: we've gone back a little Passianni is still alive. The

647
00:38:59,440 --> 00:39:02,480
Speaker 1: investigator believe that Pascianni is the leader of a group

648
00:39:02,520 --> 00:39:05,600
Speaker 1: of killers, and that's when they begin this retrial. And

649
00:39:05,760 --> 00:39:09,640
Speaker 1: as we said, days before this retrial, Passianni is found

650
00:39:09,680 --> 00:39:15,240
Speaker 1: dead in his home, allegedly officially from heart related issues.

651
00:39:16,320 --> 00:39:17,799
Speaker 1: But there are some questions about that.

652
00:39:17,800 --> 00:39:21,520
Speaker 2: Right, oh, big ones, that that tie back into the

653
00:39:22,280 --> 00:39:27,680
Speaker 2: aforementioned satanic panic of the beasts of Satan case that

654
00:39:27,719 --> 00:39:30,480
Speaker 2: we talked about at the top of the show.

655
00:39:30,680 --> 00:39:35,200
Speaker 1: Was he dead due to simple health issues or was

656
00:39:35,440 --> 00:39:40,600
Speaker 1: there something rotten in Florence? Right, So, then there's the

657
00:39:40,760 --> 00:39:44,279
Speaker 1: Sardinian connection, which we mentioned earlier. At one time, the

658
00:39:44,320 --> 00:39:50,960
Speaker 1: investigation focuses on three Sardinian brothers, Francesco Salvatore and Giovanna Venci.

659
00:39:51,880 --> 00:39:55,680
Speaker 1: All three had been lovers of the woman who has

660
00:39:55,760 --> 00:39:59,040
Speaker 1: murdered in nineteen sixty eight, and one or more have

661
00:39:59,160 --> 00:40:04,040
Speaker 1: been present at her death. First, the police arrests Francisco

662
00:40:05,000 --> 00:40:10,160
Speaker 1: in September of nineteen eighty three, with Francesco Vinci in jail,

663
00:40:10,680 --> 00:40:12,280
Speaker 1: the monster strikes again.

664
00:40:12,719 --> 00:40:14,760
Speaker 4: Yep, So it keeps happening.

665
00:40:14,800 --> 00:40:18,480
Speaker 1: It keeps happening, and so initially police think, well, maybe

666
00:40:18,520 --> 00:40:23,560
Speaker 1: one of Francesco's affiliates has committed a new murder matching

667
00:40:23,600 --> 00:40:27,920
Speaker 1: the mo just to create a false lead, so cold

668
00:40:27,920 --> 00:40:31,359
Speaker 1: blooded that they said, let's kill two people and make

669
00:40:31,400 --> 00:40:33,280
Speaker 1: them just to make a red herring.

670
00:40:33,400 --> 00:40:33,560
Speaker 3: Right.

671
00:40:34,640 --> 00:40:39,560
Speaker 1: So the police arrests Antonio Vinci on firearms charges, which

672
00:40:39,560 --> 00:40:42,200
Speaker 1: are admittedly kind of trumped up. They're an excuse for

673
00:40:42,239 --> 00:40:45,040
Speaker 1: them to get him in the room, and they question

674
00:40:45,200 --> 00:40:47,880
Speaker 1: him intensely, but they're unable to break him and eventually

675
00:40:47,920 --> 00:40:51,080
Speaker 1: they have to release him. Francesco remains in prison. So

676
00:40:51,160 --> 00:40:55,080
Speaker 1: the police believe Francesco, while perhaps not be the murderer,

677
00:40:55,640 --> 00:40:59,720
Speaker 1: knows the identity of the true killer. And then later

678
00:41:00,120 --> 00:41:05,040
Speaker 1: there's another guy who becomes implicated in this, a fellow

679
00:41:05,120 --> 00:41:09,200
Speaker 1: named Ricardo Vitti. Viti's arrested for the suspected murder of

680
00:41:09,239 --> 00:41:12,880
Speaker 1: several prostitutes in areas of Florence very close to the

681
00:41:12,920 --> 00:41:17,200
Speaker 1: site of the monster's murders. Currently is not considered the murderer,

682
00:41:17,239 --> 00:41:20,000
Speaker 1: and a lot of people say that the Italian courts

683
00:41:20,000 --> 00:41:23,720
Speaker 1: and law enforcement were just trying to get their man

684
00:41:24,000 --> 00:41:27,560
Speaker 1: to get their case closed. But then, you know, we

685
00:41:27,680 --> 00:41:30,040
Speaker 1: go back to the thing we've been talking about this

686
00:41:30,239 --> 00:41:34,080
Speaker 1: entire time, which is is this a lone serial killer

687
00:41:35,880 --> 00:41:40,640
Speaker 1: or is this something deeper? Is there a cult at play?

688
00:41:40,840 --> 00:41:44,320
Speaker 1: Like similar to Berkowitz and the Son of Sam murders.

689
00:41:44,600 --> 00:41:48,240
Speaker 1: Various investigators and criminologists have all argued that the Monster

690
00:41:48,280 --> 00:41:52,840
Speaker 1: of Florence homicides are the result of not only a group,

691
00:41:53,160 --> 00:41:58,520
Speaker 1: but maybe even a group practicing occult esoteric rituals.

692
00:41:59,120 --> 00:41:59,600
Speaker 3: Yikes.

693
00:42:00,760 --> 00:42:05,680
Speaker 2: Yeah, this whole notion that this man who took the

694
00:42:05,719 --> 00:42:09,279
Speaker 2: fall for these murders not only wasn't acting alone, but

695
00:42:09,480 --> 00:42:13,080
Speaker 2: was like the least of the involved parties, that he

696
00:42:13,239 --> 00:42:17,359
Speaker 2: was something more along the lines of a courier providing

697
00:42:18,000 --> 00:42:22,840
Speaker 2: these sex organs for the purposes of Satanic rituals or

698
00:42:22,880 --> 00:42:26,640
Speaker 2: black masses. Right, there's an article in the Guardian called

699
00:42:26,680 --> 00:42:32,320
Speaker 2: Italian mass killer was quote servant of Satanic sect Yeah.

700
00:42:32,400 --> 00:42:35,239
Speaker 1: Yeah, and that comes in two thousand and one, right,

701
00:42:35,320 --> 00:42:39,200
Speaker 1: pretty pretty recent in consideration of the times in which

702
00:42:39,239 --> 00:42:42,960
Speaker 1: these murders occurred. And we should also note here that

703
00:42:43,040 --> 00:42:45,640
Speaker 1: if there's any sand to this, that means the time

704
00:42:45,640 --> 00:42:49,080
Speaker 1: in which the murders we know about occurred. So, Noel,

705
00:42:49,120 --> 00:42:51,200
Speaker 1: can you tell us a little bit about what happens

706
00:42:51,239 --> 00:42:52,400
Speaker 1: in this Guardian article?

707
00:42:52,480 --> 00:42:54,040
Speaker 2: I do, but first I need to make a quick

708
00:42:54,080 --> 00:42:56,400
Speaker 2: correction and I'm so sorry. Earlier I said that it

709
00:42:56,520 --> 00:43:02,200
Speaker 2: was the journalist who was used as the inspiration for

710
00:43:02,280 --> 00:43:04,320
Speaker 2: the character in Thomas Harris's Hannibal.

711
00:43:04,520 --> 00:43:06,319
Speaker 4: It was actually the chief.

712
00:43:06,000 --> 00:43:11,840
Speaker 2: Inspector Ruguero Perugini who was used as that inspiration. So

713
00:43:11,880 --> 00:43:14,080
Speaker 2: I just want to clarify that real quick. But yes,

714
00:43:14,680 --> 00:43:18,319
Speaker 2: Italian mass killer was the servant of a Satanic sect.

715
00:43:18,640 --> 00:43:22,560
Speaker 2: And our Guardian article by Rory Carroll writing from Rome,

716
00:43:23,360 --> 00:43:26,160
Speaker 2: and like you said in this from two thousand and one,

717
00:43:25,560 --> 00:43:30,080
Speaker 2: it's just the notion that there was some kind of

718
00:43:30,320 --> 00:43:36,640
Speaker 2: high level society of Tuscan elite that were carrying out

719
00:43:36,640 --> 00:43:39,360
Speaker 2: these murders, or at least it was on their behalf.

720
00:43:40,800 --> 00:43:44,600
Speaker 2: There was an investigation, a raid that took place in

721
00:43:44,640 --> 00:43:49,000
Speaker 2: the offices of a leading psychologist who was a member

722
00:43:49,160 --> 00:43:55,000
Speaker 2: of the Secret Service, and it uncovered computer discs and

723
00:43:55,239 --> 00:43:58,680
Speaker 2: notes and books and all kinds of things detailing the

724
00:43:58,800 --> 00:44:03,080
Speaker 2: killings and these men who were rated and weren't necessarily

725
00:44:03,080 --> 00:44:09,880
Speaker 2: considered suspects, but it kind of points to some kind

726
00:44:09,880 --> 00:44:15,520
Speaker 2: of deeper cover up involving Paciani, that he was a

727
00:44:15,560 --> 00:44:18,600
Speaker 2: patsy more or less or that he, you know, maybe

728
00:44:18,640 --> 00:44:20,600
Speaker 2: did carry out the murders, but it was that it

729
00:44:20,680 --> 00:44:24,360
Speaker 2: was at the behest of some much more sinister figures

730
00:44:24,400 --> 00:44:27,200
Speaker 2: in high society. They were kind of pulling the strings.

731
00:44:27,040 --> 00:44:30,040
Speaker 4: Like De trou and the De Troux affair in Belgium exactly.

732
00:44:30,160 --> 00:44:33,400
Speaker 3: Yeah, But in this case you've got two guys, Aurelio Metti,

733
00:44:34,480 --> 00:44:37,239
Speaker 3: he's a psychologist with the Secret Service, and this other dude,

734
00:44:37,239 --> 00:44:41,799
Speaker 3: Francesco Bruno, who was a leading criminal criminal psychologist, who

735
00:44:41,800 --> 00:44:43,880
Speaker 3: are actually working on the case of the flor the

736
00:44:43,920 --> 00:44:49,200
Speaker 3: Monster Florence. And what's alleged here is that these guys

737
00:44:49,280 --> 00:44:52,880
Speaker 3: were actually kind of withholding certain parts as Pacciani is

738
00:44:53,280 --> 00:44:55,640
Speaker 3: going to trial and evidence is coming up because they

739
00:44:55,640 --> 00:44:59,240
Speaker 3: are actually implicated in it or part of the major

740
00:44:59,440 --> 00:45:00,640
Speaker 3: reasons for happening.

741
00:45:01,200 --> 00:45:05,839
Speaker 1: Yeah, and the mystery deepens as well, because in two

742
00:45:05,880 --> 00:45:12,120
Speaker 1: thousand and four there's another inquiry that reopens. The wife

743
00:45:12,120 --> 00:45:14,880
Speaker 1: of a or the ex wife of a chemist named

744
00:45:14,880 --> 00:45:22,279
Speaker 1: Francesco Kalamandre comes forward and accuses her husband, Francesco, her

745
00:45:22,280 --> 00:45:26,840
Speaker 1: ex husband, of being associated with the killings. There's an

746
00:45:26,920 --> 00:45:30,919
Speaker 1: article in the Telegraph Monster of Florence killed on Coult's order.

747
00:45:31,840 --> 00:45:36,960
Speaker 1: In this description. The pharmacist or the chemist is sixty

748
00:45:37,040 --> 00:45:40,720
Speaker 1: years old, and his home is searched for eleven hours.

749
00:45:40,840 --> 00:45:45,839
Speaker 1: Police find ten boxes of pornographic material and associated paperwork,

750
00:45:46,320 --> 00:45:49,120
Speaker 1: and Francesco is one of thirteen people that are put

751
00:45:49,200 --> 00:45:52,480
Speaker 1: under investigation. Officials at this point in two thousand and

752
00:45:52,520 --> 00:45:56,080
Speaker 1: four say they have concrete proof to unmask those behind

753
00:45:56,080 --> 00:45:58,680
Speaker 1: the murders, and they have been carried out according to

754
00:45:58,719 --> 00:46:02,800
Speaker 1: a quote precise esoteric ritual. WHOA.

755
00:46:03,880 --> 00:46:05,440
Speaker 4: So it goes deeper.

756
00:46:05,360 --> 00:46:08,200
Speaker 1: Right, And still, let's say we have to point out

757
00:46:08,239 --> 00:46:12,520
Speaker 1: still this case is considered officially unsolved, and as crazy

758
00:46:12,520 --> 00:46:16,120
Speaker 1: as it might sound to say there's some kind of

759
00:46:17,600 --> 00:46:21,799
Speaker 1: possible occult angle or a cover up recurring, there are

760
00:46:21,840 --> 00:46:24,439
Speaker 1: a lot of troubling, circumstantial things to this case.

761
00:46:24,560 --> 00:46:26,200
Speaker 2: Yeah, And one of them in particular was that in

762
00:46:26,280 --> 00:46:31,680
Speaker 2: nineteen ninety eight, when Paciani died of this supposed heart attack,

763
00:46:32,040 --> 00:46:35,279
Speaker 2: a magistrate who was investigating the case, a guy named

764
00:46:35,320 --> 00:46:38,920
Speaker 2: Paolo Kanesa he'd be, actually said on the record that

765
00:46:39,000 --> 00:46:42,480
Speaker 2: he believed that this death was the cause of some

766
00:46:42,560 --> 00:46:46,400
Speaker 2: kind of poisoning to silence him from pointing the finger

767
00:46:46,480 --> 00:46:48,160
Speaker 2: at the real killers.

768
00:46:48,719 --> 00:46:51,160
Speaker 4: And the last lie.

769
00:46:51,000 --> 00:46:52,680
Speaker 2: In this article in the Guardian is what kind of

770
00:46:52,760 --> 00:46:54,840
Speaker 2: leaves me with some chills, and I don't really know

771
00:46:54,840 --> 00:46:56,560
Speaker 2: where to go from here, but I'm gonna give it

772
00:46:56,600 --> 00:47:02,120
Speaker 2: to you. Apparently, Pacian he died with quite a bit

773
00:47:02,200 --> 00:47:06,680
Speaker 2: of assets. He had two homes and about fifty thousand

774
00:47:06,800 --> 00:47:10,839
Speaker 2: lira in the bank, and the idea is that this

775
00:47:11,120 --> 00:47:14,960
Speaker 2: was money that he had been paid hush money. And

776
00:47:15,280 --> 00:47:17,920
Speaker 2: they conjectured that the leader of this sect could have

777
00:47:17,960 --> 00:47:20,640
Speaker 2: been someone like a doctor or a lawyer, or someone

778
00:47:21,000 --> 00:47:23,480
Speaker 2: very high up in that society.

779
00:47:24,360 --> 00:47:27,960
Speaker 4: So I don't know, yeah, very troubling.

780
00:47:28,080 --> 00:47:33,000
Speaker 1: I've found some other strange stuff too, about purported collateral

781
00:47:33,120 --> 00:47:37,120
Speaker 1: deaths occurring in the Monster of Florence case. You can

782
00:47:37,200 --> 00:47:42,400
Speaker 1: find in various forms lists of numbers of suspicious murders, deaths,

783
00:47:42,520 --> 00:47:46,040
Speaker 1: or suicides that surround the case. And there's a lot

784
00:47:46,080 --> 00:47:51,879
Speaker 1: of i would say, allegation or maybe speculation that these

785
00:47:52,000 --> 00:47:57,640
Speaker 1: might be related. These are names of everyone from prostitutes

786
00:47:57,680 --> 00:48:03,960
Speaker 1: to hotel workers, psychists also active or active at the

787
00:48:04,000 --> 00:48:09,960
Speaker 1: time that they were alive, active wizards, warlocks, magicians. It

788
00:48:10,080 --> 00:48:16,520
Speaker 1: gets very fuzzy, very very quickly. And the allegations here again,

789
00:48:16,600 --> 00:48:18,400
Speaker 1: one of the things that I keep going back to

790
00:48:18,880 --> 00:48:25,000
Speaker 1: in this case is that the question of collaboration and

791
00:48:25,080 --> 00:48:32,239
Speaker 1: conspiracy seems pretty it seems very possible. The question to

792
00:48:32,280 --> 00:48:34,800
Speaker 1: me now is just like, what what is the nature

793
00:48:35,280 --> 00:48:38,000
Speaker 1: of this group? Is it a group of people who

794
00:48:38,040 --> 00:48:41,440
Speaker 1: are related to each other and making repeated killings? Is

795
00:48:41,480 --> 00:48:45,080
Speaker 1: it a group of a network in acting rituals, a

796
00:48:45,120 --> 00:48:49,160
Speaker 1: network with enough influence to cover it up or keep

797
00:48:49,239 --> 00:48:52,840
Speaker 1: it keep it from being officially solved? You know, I

798
00:48:52,920 --> 00:48:56,319
Speaker 1: think I think off Air Noel you had compared it

799
00:48:56,360 --> 00:48:57,440
Speaker 1: to True Detective.

800
00:48:57,760 --> 00:48:59,360
Speaker 4: Oh yeah, I mean, it's got that.

801
00:49:00,239 --> 00:49:02,400
Speaker 2: And then, like we said, Thomas Harris definitely drew a

802
00:49:02,400 --> 00:49:06,440
Speaker 2: lot of inspiration for this for his fictional book Hannibal.

803
00:49:06,520 --> 00:49:09,040
Speaker 2: So I mean, it certainly has the stuff of great storytelling.

804
00:49:10,200 --> 00:49:15,000
Speaker 1: And I read another. I read another allegation that didn't

805
00:49:15,080 --> 00:49:22,320
Speaker 1: relate to clan killings or to serial killers. An article

806
00:49:22,560 --> 00:49:29,440
Speaker 1: from July twenty seventeen, the Italian Insider mentions the reopening

807
00:49:29,520 --> 00:49:35,040
Speaker 1: of the Monster of Florence murders and also mentions a

808
00:49:35,120 --> 00:49:39,640
Speaker 1: new suspect, a guy named Jimpario Vigilante, who was eighty

809
00:49:39,640 --> 00:49:44,960
Speaker 1: six years old at the time, and the investigation argues

810
00:49:45,040 --> 00:49:51,080
Speaker 1: that this series of murders occurs to function as a

811
00:49:51,120 --> 00:49:55,960
Speaker 1: false flag, a pieta neetra, meaning that according to the

812
00:49:56,040 --> 00:50:02,000
Speaker 1: lawyers arguing this Vieira Rani, he says that the crime

813
00:50:02,120 --> 00:50:06,160
Speaker 1: serve as distractions for magistrates and public opinion from what

814
00:50:06,239 --> 00:50:10,000
Speaker 1: was happening in Italy during the strategy of Tension, the

815
00:50:10,200 --> 00:50:13,880
Speaker 1: series of terrorist acts throughout the seventies and eighties committed

816
00:50:13,920 --> 00:50:17,759
Speaker 1: by right winging extremists, such as the Bologna bombing, which

817
00:50:17,800 --> 00:50:20,760
Speaker 1: aimed to shift the blame onto communists to call communist

818
00:50:20,840 --> 00:50:23,200
Speaker 1: movements to gain support for right wing causes.

819
00:50:23,320 --> 00:50:24,719
Speaker 3: Wow, that's a big conspiracy.

820
00:50:24,800 --> 00:50:27,279
Speaker 1: Yeah, you gotta like the simplicity of it, right, And

821
00:50:27,320 --> 00:50:30,000
Speaker 1: they were like, ah, what if the game mousetrap was

822
00:50:30,760 --> 00:50:31,799
Speaker 1: what if we just did that?

823
00:50:32,800 --> 00:50:33,000
Speaker 4: Yeah?

824
00:50:33,040 --> 00:50:34,560
Speaker 3: But what if that's actually what happened.

825
00:50:35,239 --> 00:50:37,960
Speaker 1: I don't know, it seems it seems sort of far fetched,

826
00:50:38,000 --> 00:50:38,440
Speaker 1: doesn't it.

827
00:50:38,440 --> 00:50:39,239
Speaker 3: It certainly does.

828
00:50:39,800 --> 00:50:41,440
Speaker 1: I mean, I guess we could see some of that

829
00:50:41,600 --> 00:50:45,600
Speaker 1: tail wagging the dog in other journalistic aspects, but it

830
00:50:45,680 --> 00:50:49,520
Speaker 1: seems like a lot to murder people because whatever the

831
00:50:49,640 --> 00:50:52,080
Speaker 1: motivation of the cause is, the truth is that real

832
00:50:52,200 --> 00:50:56,840
Speaker 1: people did die, and that seems it seems like actually

833
00:50:56,960 --> 00:51:00,440
Speaker 1: murdering people is going a bit far to distract from this.

834
00:51:00,520 --> 00:51:02,759
Speaker 1: But again, the Bologna ball meme was a real thing.

835
00:51:04,320 --> 00:51:11,480
Speaker 1: So we have at this point no official conclusions or answers.

836
00:51:11,560 --> 00:51:13,719
Speaker 1: And I don't know what do you guys think? Do

837
00:51:13,760 --> 00:51:16,640
Speaker 1: you think there's U Do you think there's a cover

838
00:51:16,760 --> 00:51:17,280
Speaker 1: up afoot?

839
00:51:17,640 --> 00:51:17,879
Speaker 4: Yes?

840
00:51:19,280 --> 00:51:22,920
Speaker 3: I think there is. There was some kind of cover up,

841
00:51:23,120 --> 00:51:24,960
Speaker 3: But you know, there are two guys who went to

842
00:51:25,040 --> 00:51:28,440
Speaker 3: jail for most of it, and maybe they were just Patsy's,

843
00:51:28,520 --> 00:51:29,920
Speaker 3: but they did give confessions.

844
00:51:31,360 --> 00:51:33,680
Speaker 2: I think weird rich dudes do stuff like this all

845
00:51:33,719 --> 00:51:36,239
Speaker 2: the time. Probably, I'm not kidding. I really wait, really, Oh,

846
00:51:36,280 --> 00:51:36,880
Speaker 2: I definitely do.

847
00:51:37,080 --> 00:51:37,360
Speaker 1: Sure.

848
00:51:37,520 --> 00:51:41,000
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean I think any I think as perverse

849
00:51:41,400 --> 00:51:44,359
Speaker 2: and twisted a thing as you can imagine. Somebody is

850
00:51:44,400 --> 00:51:46,839
Speaker 2: paying a bunch of money to do it and are

851
00:51:46,880 --> 00:51:49,600
Speaker 2: able to continue doing it because of their position of

852
00:51:49,960 --> 00:51:50,880
Speaker 2: power and prominence.

853
00:51:51,000 --> 00:51:52,479
Speaker 4: I have no doubt in my mind that's true.

854
00:51:52,560 --> 00:51:55,359
Speaker 1: I argue that there's another force. I bet that could

855
00:51:55,400 --> 00:51:58,200
Speaker 1: be true, But I argue there's another force that actively

856
00:51:58,239 --> 00:52:02,160
Speaker 1: aids and a bets this, which is that governments and

857
00:52:02,280 --> 00:52:06,960
Speaker 1: especially intelligence agencies, when they're functioning on rogue level, do

858
00:52:07,280 --> 00:52:10,919
Speaker 1: encourage these things in order to have I'm not saying

859
00:52:10,960 --> 00:52:13,960
Speaker 1: these murders in particular, but do encourage illegal activities in

860
00:52:14,080 --> 00:52:16,920
Speaker 1: order to have dirt on people. It's blackmail later if

861
00:52:16,960 --> 00:52:20,440
Speaker 1: you can get somebody in a honeypot situation. I'm not

862
00:52:20,480 --> 00:52:22,799
Speaker 1: saying it has to be something wild and out there

863
00:52:22,880 --> 00:52:25,440
Speaker 1: like cannibalism or crazy abuse.

864
00:52:25,480 --> 00:52:26,520
Speaker 4: It could just P tape.

865
00:52:26,600 --> 00:52:27,960
Speaker 1: Yeah, it could be a P tape. It could be

866
00:52:27,960 --> 00:52:30,880
Speaker 1: a prostitute, it could be anything like that, and that

867
00:52:31,480 --> 00:52:35,839
Speaker 1: is a proven tactic of intelligence agencies. We've also heard

868
00:52:35,840 --> 00:52:39,960
Speaker 1: allegations that that extends to much darker and more twisted

869
00:52:40,040 --> 00:52:43,520
Speaker 1: territory than the public knows about. But yeah, that's the

870
00:52:43,560 --> 00:52:46,680
Speaker 1: scary thing about this. We don't have definitive proof that

871
00:52:46,760 --> 00:52:51,600
Speaker 1: it happened, but we have pretty good evidence that it's plausible, And.

872
00:52:51,640 --> 00:52:54,440
Speaker 2: We have pretty good evidence of like the level of

873
00:52:54,600 --> 00:52:57,440
Speaker 2: depravity that human nature can now push people to.

874
00:52:57,880 --> 00:52:59,920
Speaker 1: That's true, especially when it's slowly.

875
00:52:59,719 --> 00:53:03,040
Speaker 2: Escal and when they're corrupted by ultimate power. I don't

876
00:53:03,480 --> 00:53:05,719
Speaker 2: I hate to sound like such a downer on the

877
00:53:05,760 --> 00:53:08,600
Speaker 2: human race, but man, we've seen some stuff.

878
00:53:09,120 --> 00:53:12,160
Speaker 1: Yeah. I would even say just lack of consequences is enough.

879
00:53:12,800 --> 00:53:17,120
Speaker 1: It might not even have a benefit man. Well, the

880
00:53:17,719 --> 00:53:22,480
Speaker 1: terrible news is that modern ritual murders do continue to

881
00:53:22,560 --> 00:53:27,400
Speaker 1: occur in Italy even today. In February of twenty eighteen,

882
00:53:27,440 --> 00:53:30,719
Speaker 1: an eighteen year old girl named Pamela Mastro Pietro was

883
00:53:30,760 --> 00:53:32,640
Speaker 1: discovered in two suitcases.

884
00:53:33,040 --> 00:53:37,000
Speaker 3: Yes, her dismembered body had been left alongside this rural

885
00:53:37,040 --> 00:53:42,839
Speaker 3: road near Maserata, Italy. And this is gruesome again here

886
00:53:42,880 --> 00:53:46,720
Speaker 3: you go. Her heart and internal organs were all missing,

887
00:53:47,600 --> 00:53:55,200
Speaker 3: and she's been struggling with drug problems. She recently went

888
00:53:55,200 --> 00:53:57,319
Speaker 3: to this recovery clinic to try and get some help.

889
00:53:57,560 --> 00:53:59,919
Speaker 3: And she was to some degree familiar with the air

890
00:54:01,000 --> 00:54:04,040
Speaker 3: as well as the criminal underground that's there, the people

891
00:54:04,040 --> 00:54:07,040
Speaker 3: who are moving in the shadows giving her pass with

892
00:54:07,160 --> 00:54:09,319
Speaker 3: drug abuse, yes, just getting it.

893
00:54:10,040 --> 00:54:13,480
Speaker 1: So the investigation led law enforcement to the home of

894
00:54:13,800 --> 00:54:17,920
Speaker 1: a twenty nine year old man named Innocent Osagale.

895
00:54:18,640 --> 00:54:20,680
Speaker 4: Well he's fine then, right right.

896
00:54:20,640 --> 00:54:23,840
Speaker 1: Right, nominative determinism all the way. He is in a

897
00:54:24,040 --> 00:54:26,600
Speaker 1: legal immigrant at the time, and he has a criminal

898
00:54:26,640 --> 00:54:28,959
Speaker 1: record for drug dealing and it was probably still selling

899
00:54:29,040 --> 00:54:31,840
Speaker 1: drugs at the time. They believed two of his associates

900
00:54:31,840 --> 00:54:35,279
Speaker 1: are also arrested. Police find blood covered clothing belonging to

901
00:54:35,320 --> 00:54:40,920
Speaker 1: Mastro Pietro, along with knives and blades with her blood

902
00:54:40,960 --> 00:54:44,680
Speaker 1: on them, and her body had been washed with bleach.

903
00:54:45,040 --> 00:54:48,719
Speaker 1: He had washed his hands with bleach. The absence of

904
00:54:48,760 --> 00:54:52,000
Speaker 1: her heart, internal organs, and sexual organs led police to

905
00:54:52,040 --> 00:54:55,120
Speaker 1: suspect the girl may have been sacrificed in what and

906
00:54:55,160 --> 00:54:57,840
Speaker 1: this is the law enforcement's term and what they called

907
00:54:58,280 --> 00:55:04,640
Speaker 1: quote some kind of ritual. According to criminologist Alessandro Muluzi,

908
00:55:05,239 --> 00:55:07,759
Speaker 1: it is a routine to cut victims into pieces and

909
00:55:07,840 --> 00:55:10,960
Speaker 1: in some cases to eat parts of their body in

910
00:55:11,000 --> 00:55:15,080
Speaker 1: this criminal underworld. Mlusi claims that cannibalism is more of

911
00:55:15,120 --> 00:55:18,000
Speaker 1: a rule than an exception in these situations, and then

912
00:55:18,040 --> 00:55:21,000
Speaker 1: people often refuse to speak out about the practice due

913
00:55:21,040 --> 00:55:25,000
Speaker 1: to concerns being called racist. So again we see racism

914
00:55:25,400 --> 00:55:30,400
Speaker 1: raising its head here in Italy because in these reports

915
00:55:30,440 --> 00:55:34,440
Speaker 1: we'll see things where someone will say utto immigrants, or

916
00:55:34,640 --> 00:55:38,399
Speaker 1: murdering people and eating them and whatever other scary thing

917
00:55:38,480 --> 00:55:40,960
Speaker 1: you can think about. But in this case, it does

918
00:55:41,000 --> 00:55:45,400
Speaker 1: appear that at least this guy did kill someone ritualistically

919
00:55:46,040 --> 00:55:50,799
Speaker 1: in order to through supernatural means, accomplish some task in

920
00:55:50,840 --> 00:55:53,279
Speaker 1: the material world. That's what we mean when we say

921
00:55:53,400 --> 00:56:00,800
Speaker 1: ritual murders. Ritual murder is not just to kill someone

922
00:56:01,000 --> 00:56:03,520
Speaker 1: in a way that the killer finds interesting for its

923
00:56:03,520 --> 00:56:07,000
Speaker 1: own sake. It is supposed to create some sort of

924
00:56:07,120 --> 00:56:11,080
Speaker 1: effect in the world. Italian law enforcement claims other drug

925
00:56:11,120 --> 00:56:14,440
Speaker 1: dealers participate in ritual murders with the goal of causing

926
00:56:14,480 --> 00:56:19,719
Speaker 1: madness and death amongst the police population. In December of

927
00:56:19,719 --> 00:56:23,000
Speaker 1: twenty seventeen, a forty six year old Morocco woman was

928
00:56:23,040 --> 00:56:26,160
Speaker 1: found in a forest near Verona and her body was

929
00:56:26,200 --> 00:56:31,240
Speaker 1: dismembered into approximately a dozen pieces. There are a number

930
00:56:31,280 --> 00:56:35,040
Speaker 1: of other cases like this you can unfortunately find in

931
00:56:35,440 --> 00:56:40,200
Speaker 1: Italian media. However, the big question is are these actually

932
00:56:40,400 --> 00:56:45,880
Speaker 1: ritualistic murders or is law enforcement portraying them as such?

933
00:56:46,400 --> 00:56:49,799
Speaker 1: And there's a huge historical and cultural context bubbling again

934
00:56:49,920 --> 00:56:52,480
Speaker 1: just under the surface here. How much of the motivation

935
00:56:53,200 --> 00:56:58,960
Speaker 1: for the betrayal of these things as religiously motivated ritual murders,

936
00:56:59,239 --> 00:57:03,520
Speaker 1: how much of that motiveation comes from religiously motivated hysteria,

937
00:57:03,840 --> 00:57:06,560
Speaker 1: how much of it is corruption or incompetence in the

938
00:57:06,600 --> 00:57:09,960
Speaker 1: Italian law enforcement system, and how much in recent cases

939
00:57:10,120 --> 00:57:12,920
Speaker 1: could be attributed to racism. These are questions that are

940
00:57:12,960 --> 00:57:15,200
Speaker 1: tough to answer, but one thing is for sure. There

941
00:57:15,280 --> 00:57:19,360
Speaker 1: was at least one proven active satanic conspiracy slash ritual

942
00:57:19,440 --> 00:57:23,000
Speaker 1: murder group in Italy, and the case of the Monster

943
00:57:23,040 --> 00:57:26,600
Speaker 1: of Florence remains to this day unsolved.

944
00:57:27,200 --> 00:57:30,800
Speaker 3: So don't listen to death metal if you're in Italy.

945
00:57:30,840 --> 00:57:33,840
Speaker 3: That's a bad idea because there's probably some ritualistic murders

946
00:57:33,840 --> 00:57:38,400
Speaker 3: happening somewhere near you within that scene. And then two,

947
00:57:38,520 --> 00:57:42,520
Speaker 3: don't park your car and get amorous with someone in

948
00:57:42,560 --> 00:57:46,640
Speaker 3: the countryside ever, unless you're married and you've got documents

949
00:57:46,640 --> 00:57:47,440
Speaker 3: on the windows.

950
00:57:47,600 --> 00:57:49,800
Speaker 4: This is like Jason vorhe's rules. Dude.

951
00:57:50,040 --> 00:57:51,480
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's where that's where we're at.

952
00:57:51,520 --> 00:57:54,920
Speaker 4: Can you do it in a tent? No? There, I

953
00:57:54,920 --> 00:57:55,680
Speaker 4: don't think we talked.

954
00:57:55,480 --> 00:57:58,680
Speaker 1: About at least you want to get stabbed in his

955
00:57:58,760 --> 00:58:00,440
Speaker 1: head or shot in hand.

956
00:58:01,000 --> 00:58:02,600
Speaker 2: And how about we just be safe and to say

957
00:58:02,640 --> 00:58:04,000
Speaker 2: no sex before marriage.

958
00:58:04,240 --> 00:58:08,640
Speaker 3: Dune, that's it, don't do it hard pass, don't wait,

959
00:58:08,720 --> 00:58:11,800
Speaker 3: both of you guys stop right now.

960
00:58:12,080 --> 00:58:18,320
Speaker 1: Oh that's right, Bat, you are married. So at this

961
00:58:18,360 --> 00:58:20,400
Speaker 1: point we end on a question too. We would like

962
00:58:20,480 --> 00:58:24,760
Speaker 1: to hear your perspective on these murders. Do you do

963
00:58:24,840 --> 00:58:29,440
Speaker 1: you think this stuff is being I don't know, like

964
00:58:29,640 --> 00:58:34,560
Speaker 1: falsely advertised as a cult in nature or do you

965
00:58:34,600 --> 00:58:37,160
Speaker 1: think that there's and there is an active cover up

966
00:58:37,520 --> 00:58:40,880
Speaker 1: And if so, does it continue today? And if that

967
00:58:41,040 --> 00:58:44,720
Speaker 1: is the case, then who's doing the covering? Is it

968
00:58:44,800 --> 00:58:49,960
Speaker 1: the Secret Service? Is it an elite group of disgusting,

969
00:58:50,000 --> 00:58:51,200
Speaker 1: perverse aristocrats.

970
00:58:51,440 --> 00:58:52,680
Speaker 4: Is it a.

971
00:58:52,720 --> 00:58:55,160
Speaker 1: Family with a dark secret? We'd like to know. You

972
00:58:55,160 --> 00:58:57,200
Speaker 1: can tell us about it on Instagram, you can reach

973
00:58:57,240 --> 00:58:59,040
Speaker 1: us on Facebook, you can reach us on Twitter.

974
00:58:59,320 --> 00:59:01,920
Speaker 2: Hey, don't forget, We're coming to a city near you

975
00:59:02,200 --> 00:59:04,720
Speaker 2: very soon on our first ever live tour.

976
00:59:05,120 --> 00:59:07,360
Speaker 3: Yes, we're gonna be on tour in the Northeast. You

977
00:59:07,360 --> 00:59:09,960
Speaker 3: can find more information about it right now if you

978
00:59:10,000 --> 00:59:12,760
Speaker 3: go to stuff they Don't Want You to Know dot

979
00:59:12,800 --> 00:59:15,520
Speaker 3: com and click on the live shows tab. You'll see

980
00:59:15,600 --> 00:59:17,440
Speaker 3: everything there and you can get tickets directly.

981
00:59:17,520 --> 00:59:19,800
Speaker 4: Who knows, we might be talking about more Satan stuff.

982
00:59:20,160 --> 00:59:22,600
Speaker 3: Yeah, maybe or not. Could be anything.

983
00:59:22,680 --> 00:59:24,439
Speaker 2: Yeah, we don't really know yet, but we're figuring it out.

984
00:59:24,640 --> 00:59:26,560
Speaker 3: That's right. And if you don't want and that's the

985
00:59:26,680 --> 00:59:30,080
Speaker 3: end of this classic episode. If you have any thoughts

986
00:59:30,200 --> 00:59:34,040
Speaker 3: or questions about this episode. You can get into contact

987
00:59:34,120 --> 00:59:36,280
Speaker 3: with us in a number of different ways. One of

988
00:59:36,280 --> 00:59:38,080
Speaker 3: the best is to give us a call. Our number

989
00:59:38,160 --> 00:59:42,800
Speaker 3: is one eight three three STDWYTK. If you don't want

990
00:59:42,840 --> 00:59:44,720
Speaker 3: to do that, you can send us a good old

991
00:59:44,720 --> 00:59:45,520
Speaker 3: fashioned email.

992
00:59:45,760 --> 00:59:49,919
Speaker 5: We are conspiracy at iHeartRadio dot com.

993
00:59:50,080 --> 00:59:52,120
Speaker 3: Stuff they don't want you to know is a production

994
00:59:52,240 --> 00:59:56,760
Speaker 3: of iHeartRadio. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app,

995
00:59:56,840 --> 00:59:59,720
Speaker 3: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.