Speaker 1: Welcome to it could happen here. I'm Garrison Davis. This
Speaker 1: is part two of our terrorism Roundtable discussion. If you
Speaker 1: haven't listened to part one already, I would recommend you
Speaker 1: scroll back, listen to the previous episode and then continue
Speaker 1: on from here so you have kind of context to
Speaker 1: what exactly we're talking about. Anyway, this is part two
Speaker 1: of our discussion in the Woods. I hope you enjoy.
Speaker 1: Something that we've talked about earlier this year after January six,
Speaker 1: was like should the government ban telegram? Right? That was
Speaker 1: the thing And there's a lot of a lot of
Speaker 1: arguments are like no, absolutely not, and there's does it?
Speaker 1: Does anyone want to speak on that? Because you know,
Speaker 1: because like if I want to talk about the government's
Speaker 1: response to these things, you know, that's a very government
Speaker 1: thing to do. Be like, oh, people are organized on
Speaker 1: this platform, get out of the platform. Problem gone, you know,
Speaker 1: and that's not how that works. You want us talking
Speaker 1: that a little bit? Sure? Um? Yeah, so there, Yeah,
Speaker 1: getting rid of the platform? Doesn't that necessarily help, especially
Speaker 1: when it's something that is important, such as like you know,
Speaker 1: encrypted communication, which is something that more people than just
Speaker 1: Nazis need. Um And that resource should not be cut off.
Speaker 1: And there's also kind of a bad precedent to be
Speaker 1: set if the if the government is deciding which uh
Speaker 1: forms of speech it needs to have complete access to.
Speaker 1: I don't love that. Um. The other thing is that
Speaker 1: if we knew telegram, right, they don't disappear, they formed
Speaker 1: that networks there just harder to hard. People are absolutely
Speaker 1: correct when they say D platforming works because it works
Speaker 1: for the platform and a lot of people just want that.
Speaker 1: A lot of people just don't want to see Nazi
Speaker 1: ship and they're fine with you know, D platform and
Speaker 1: they say this works, and they have data to backup
Speaker 1: that it does work. But it works for the platform.
Speaker 1: But the people still exist, Yeah, still boosting their own
Speaker 1: ship and when they bring up building their own all
Speaker 1: tech platforms, you know works there early yeah, yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: and there is elements that Yeah, D platform is a
Speaker 1: wider thing can or especially for like in person stuff,
Speaker 1: but yeah, for your sort of the things you're mentioning, yes,
Speaker 1: it is. It is definitely not not that cut and dry.
Speaker 1: You know, I'm really interesting because it is kind of
Speaker 1: this middle space between social media and just a messaging app. Yeah.
Speaker 1: The thing about it too, is that anybody can look
Speaker 1: at these you know, the public channels, so without without
Speaker 1: saying anything in the chance, so people could be kind
Speaker 1: of completely invisible. Nobody like nobody knows that they're there.
Speaker 1: They're watching this stuff, and they're still getting the same messaging,
Speaker 1: they're still getting the same dates for protests, they're still
Speaker 1: like organizing. But they can be uh, sort of just
Speaker 1: subscribe to a channel and you don't even need to
Speaker 1: be subscribed. You can, yeah, just looking into it and
Speaker 1: getting that flow of information without ever having like formal organizing,
Speaker 1: so to speak. And so it's really hard to say that, like,
Speaker 1: you know, these people planned this because there's a lot
Speaker 1: of claus bolts and ability and involved. There's so much
Speaker 1: easy hyber linking between groups and channels and everything. So
Speaker 1: it's so easy for someone to move between ideology and
Speaker 1: to go from kind of like the base level ship
Speaker 1: and to be much deeper stuff extremely quick, very quick. Yeah,
Speaker 1: actually quick. Well that's like that's good and that's good
Speaker 1: for them. About telegram is that you have all of
Speaker 1: the people that are vulnerable to let's say, new ideas
Speaker 1: in one place exactly if you're trying to plan a collapse,
Speaker 1: you're gonna need a lot more people than the numbers
Speaker 1: that the people who want the collapse actually have. So
Speaker 1: the easiest way to kind of move things along is
Speaker 1: to sert inserting their ideas and their discourses and kind
Speaker 1: of altering the vibe of certain digital environments manually until
Speaker 1: they have um, what we can kindly call cannon fodder. Yeah,
Speaker 1: or even starting their own and saying like, you know,
Speaker 1: this is a maga platform and it's actually just you know,
Speaker 1: went some bunch of accelerationists too made it, and they
Speaker 1: made it to recruit them because he saw attempts of
Speaker 1: this with like Q and on its people who are
Speaker 1: way more slavation is trying to use people's extreme It
Speaker 1: was successful and they did it and people died. Well
Speaker 1: you're I mean that. And then also you've got like
Speaker 1: like the idea of the boogaloo right that's being co
Speaker 1: opted to try to appeal to leftists, and I mean
Speaker 1: there's a really good article by Left Coast Right Watch
Speaker 1: that goes into one of those chats and they're basically like, yeah,
Speaker 1: I really try to push these ideas of really try
Speaker 1: to push talking points like black lives matter and all
Speaker 1: of us who want to get these protesters on our side.
Speaker 1: And then you also have um, some blatant like white
Speaker 1: supremacist groups who are all using the boogaloo, and how
Speaker 1: much of that too is like how much that is
Speaker 1: sort of real genuine like I am not racist, I
Speaker 1: believe in black lives matter, like I want to be
Speaker 1: part of this even though or like much of it
Speaker 1: also is um kind of reminiscent of what we were
Speaker 1: talking about or how about my stuff in it? But
Speaker 1: like with you know, the idea of from Anson of
Speaker 1: like Healter Skelter and like causing that race where it's
Speaker 1: like they what they would do is like try and
Speaker 1: frame black people for it and say like this was
Speaker 1: you know yeah, yeah, I mean, and how much of
Speaker 1: it is saying like this is black lives matter and
Speaker 1: they want people to see that after they do. The
Speaker 1: Googleloo group that showed up in Portland in January in
Speaker 1: July when the particular fads were happening, now that they
Speaker 1: showed up and we're all like, yeah, we're here to
Speaker 1: support black lives matter and standing against the federal government
Speaker 1: and stuff, um, and they had some very suspicious patches
Speaker 1: that it took me took me about a year to
Speaker 1: figure out what they were. And it's like this accelerationist like, um,
Speaker 1: it ties into a whole bunch of like eco fascist
Speaker 1: propaganda stuff. Um and yeah, it's like they're they're saying
Speaker 1: these things, well they have these very obscure patches, um
Speaker 1: and yeah, this is an important reason why we need
Speaker 1: people who are not very smart, Like I will say,
Speaker 1: Jimmy dor who puts these gives these people platforms are
Speaker 1: some of the worst and are going to cause a
Speaker 1: lot of problems because they have no idea what they're
Speaker 1: doing or they know what they're doing, and they're just bad.
Speaker 1: And like that boogle boo thing kind of serves a
Speaker 1: twofold purpose in that you can bring people who self
Speaker 1: identify as leftists into the movement, but you also have
Speaker 1: a really good scapegoat for like actual Actually that was
Speaker 1: a big thing that we saw in Minneapolis when things
Speaker 1: first popped off, and like Precinct was getting burned down
Speaker 1: and suddenly people on the internet start losing their minds
Speaker 1: about the umbrella guy at the and there was a
Speaker 1: guy who was indicted. He was a boo boo boy
Speaker 1: who was indicted for um like headlines said burning down
Speaker 1: the precinct. He fired a weapon, and he fired a
Speaker 1: gun on like near the wall exactly, and so that
Speaker 1: at the same time takes away agency from left wing
Speaker 1: movement and the States able to be like, look, see,
Speaker 1: it's just it's okay that cracked down on them because
Speaker 1: they're all, you know, wild white supremacists exactly, just from
Speaker 1: any autonomous room with the forms of the people in
Speaker 1: a community that isn't that we wouldn't necessarily refer to
Speaker 1: his left. It's just piste off people. I mean, that's
Speaker 1: what we saw in every single you know, everybody, the
Speaker 1: young kids who are sucking piste off and are going
Speaker 1: to go smash it. And it's like saying, all of
Speaker 1: this is people from outside of the town where it's
Speaker 1: like I know, yeah, it's a tale as old as time,
Speaker 1: Like outside agitator has been used since before this. It's
Speaker 1: a very old state talking point. Yeah, what are you
Speaker 1: gonna say that? Um, yeah, I was gonna say. Also,
Speaker 1: it's somewhat related to that we're talking about using like
Speaker 1: human on his cannon fodder, and also ties into the
Speaker 1: sab sit conversation we're having. So my research I special
Speaker 1: are not specialized. I focus on Christian identity, this white
Speaker 1: supremacist ideology, and how specifically how it's grown since the
Speaker 1: nineties until now through like the Internet and all that
Speaker 1: fun stuff. This whole point they've been pushing lately is
Speaker 1: to like there this with Christian identity. The whole thing
Speaker 1: is they are preparing for the apocalypse, which they called
Speaker 1: the tribulations. And they see modern see I folks see
Speaker 1: the boogaloo as like the tribulation that's coming. So what
Speaker 1: they're trying to do is go off grid and really
Speaker 1: try to like establish this new land or like to
Speaker 1: protect their kids and everything from like pollution and all
Speaker 1: that ship, but also to be away from the collapse
Speaker 1: and be able to start buy it. And then while
Speaker 1: they're doing all that, like prepping homesteads and compounds and stuff,
Speaker 1: they're also like pushing like election fraud conspiracies and all
Speaker 1: that on like Q and on and the maggot crowd
Speaker 1: because they believe it. Not because yeah, right, they don't
Speaker 1: believe it. They know it's bullshit, but they can use
Speaker 1: it to accelerate collapse, just like January says, yes, so exactly.
Speaker 1: I mean when I mean there are groups when Joe
Speaker 1: Biden won the presidency or won the election or whatever.
Speaker 1: Some groups being like, yeah, I really try to push
Speaker 1: this theory, this conspiracy about election fraud, even if you
Speaker 1: even if you don't believe in it, just push it
Speaker 1: because that helps our cause. And that's that's something to
Speaker 1: be really mindful of too. Forgot where else I was
Speaker 1: going with that. Well, yeah, a lot of them don't
Speaker 1: mean what they say. They'll say things that will push
Speaker 1: other people to do something that they don't necessarily want
Speaker 1: to do. And that's a lot of a lot of
Speaker 1: Like during January six, so much excitement because they could
Speaker 1: see that the Q and on crowd are actually mobilizing,
Speaker 1: and so they said to them, like to themselves, like,
Speaker 1: you know, get them, get the mobilizing for the white race,
Speaker 1: get the mobilizing for you know, our cause. And they've
Speaker 1: really successfully been able to infiltrate that and be able
Speaker 1: to get some people on board with some of it
Speaker 1: just based on using their rhetoric. Yeah, I know, I
Speaker 1: talked about this on our podcast, but you could see it,
Speaker 1: like I reported on January six, in person, and like
Speaker 1: you could watch it happen. Someone with a skull mask
Speaker 1: on or proud boy or an oath keeper would literally
Speaker 1: come back from the police line, grab a group of people,
Speaker 1: yell something at them about Q and On or the
Speaker 1: storms upon us, and throw them up to that riot
Speaker 1: line until I did a really good did a really
Speaker 1: good visual investigation of how those extremistcupes used mega people
Speaker 1: in Q and On people as their foot soldiers. Qua
Speaker 1: a folk Qua didn't really good break down their animous podcast. Yea, yeah.
Speaker 1: But it's also with I mean not to link everything
Speaker 1: the Christian identity, which I have a tendency to do,
Speaker 1: but it's it's very ideologically similar to Q and On,
Speaker 1: like from a Christianity point of view, Like that's Q
Speaker 1: and On is like so close to the edge of
Speaker 1: Christian identity. It's very scary. Actually I talked about it
Speaker 1: on Jake Hammer Hands Q Clarence podcast. But there's also
Speaker 1: like not only trying to who accelerate things through them,
Speaker 1: but also trying to recruit them through these like very
Speaker 1: very similar talking bo It's about like the Synagogue of
Speaker 1: Satan and all that, saying that Christian identity is an
Speaker 1: entry point for some of them, some of them can
Speaker 1: bring it up as an entry point into further like
Speaker 1: accelerationist Nazi ship, but like they will start with Christian
Speaker 1: identity because I think that it's more pactual to people
Speaker 1: who already believe in Q and on. Yeah exactly. I mean,
Speaker 1: like Will was saying, these there's a lot of this
Speaker 1: comes from these kind of boomer conspiracies and anti vax groups,
Speaker 1: and you're not going to be able to get you know,
Speaker 1: Mimon pap pap into like Wotonism or something like that
Speaker 1: hard enough, you can't. But like Christianity is something that's palatable.
Speaker 1: It's something that's normal to them, and as you can
Speaker 1: kind of slowly tweak it through to it on, you
Speaker 1: can get them to this much work stream Like okay,
Speaker 1: talk about Christian identity. I think we should, like maybe Matt,
Speaker 1: you could define it Christian identity. It's this radical offshoot
Speaker 1: of Christianity that sees all white people as a true
Speaker 1: Israelites from the Bible um. And they also think Jewish
Speaker 1: people are all literally the spawn of say And there's
Speaker 1: this really dumb theory they came up with and like
Speaker 1: kind of rewrote the whole Bible off of called can
Speaker 1: I name z okay okay dual seed line theory where
Speaker 1: they say, like the story if you know about uh,
Speaker 1: like Adam and even all that they had Caine enabled, right,
Speaker 1: so they see, um Kane was the offspring of Eve
Speaker 1: and the devil and he was literally the spawn of
Speaker 1: Satan and then he intermingled with all these races that
Speaker 1: were there before Adam and Eve and created this demonic race.
Speaker 1: And it's really really fucking dumb, but it's still here.
Speaker 1: It's been for the tot minute. I'm probably going to
Speaker 1: keep going. It's gonna get worse calling it now, it's
Speaker 1: gonna get worse. Yeah, but uh, and the whole thing
Speaker 1: is they essentially like worshiped like a Nazi Jesus. They
Speaker 1: see Jesus only was really only talking to the white race,
Speaker 1: and that Christianity and like God only is able to
Speaker 1: be perceived to buy the white race. And before you
Speaker 1: start laughing at people, because yes, it does sound very silly,
Speaker 1: keep in mind that these are extremely dangerous, like right,
Speaker 1: this is this is one problem with two and on
Speaker 1: when liberals just start laughing about how crazy it is,
Speaker 1: and then they're so surprised at January six, where like no, no,
Speaker 1: like it's yeah, like they're actually dangerous because you've mentioned
Speaker 1: in a lot. Yeah, and he's chricially that he's been
Speaker 1: mentioned in various manifestos linked to you know, actually has
Speaker 1: warned very like organized. It's like I mean, historically I
Speaker 1: think part of like with Christian identity, with a lot
Speaker 1: of these kind of like a lot of them based
Speaker 1: their like whole historical context of like arianism on this
Speaker 1: rewriting of history based on um a fake study that
Speaker 1: was done in Nazi Germany about uh where some proto
Speaker 1: Indo European languages came from. And so they believe that
Speaker 1: like white people came from uh an area that's you know,
Speaker 1: you could generally say it's certainly near the Black Sea. UM,
Speaker 1: and that it's based on this like strange idea that
Speaker 1: like Sanskrit is not the oldest language, but like are
Speaker 1: you pointing the gun at me because I'm stepping in you?
Speaker 1: I think it actually is useful and yeah, there there
Speaker 1: is actual because they really tried to push this. They
Speaker 1: made um a lot of fake studies that you could
Speaker 1: spend a lot of time researching this and believe that
Speaker 1: it's true, UM, because there's just so much written about it.
Speaker 1: And I think this is like a tactic that they
Speaker 1: really tend to do with historical revisionism. Allat is just
Speaker 1: crank out essay after essay, even if it's wrong, even
Speaker 1: if it's totally like based on false data, just doesn't
Speaker 1: data that they don't care. They just write about it
Speaker 1: and then they think that like having more written about
Speaker 1: it makes it more legitimate. And if that's what we
Speaker 1: are talking to I've been talking about this this whole
Speaker 1: time we've been not recording. Is there's just an overflow
Speaker 1: of content that is so easy to access, you know,
Speaker 1: not necessarily from these specificers they're talking about, just from
Speaker 1: the further right. In general, I just overflow the content.
Speaker 1: It's like always the top ship on Facebook. To give
Speaker 1: an idea of how pervasive even that idea of like
Speaker 1: where Indo European languages came from, Like when I still
Speaker 1: went to college, I took a Religions of South Asia
Speaker 1: course and we had to spend like multiple days where
Speaker 1: a professor went through these myths about like what was
Speaker 1: the area invasion? Which like was there are arian people
Speaker 1: that that is a thing historically, Yes they're not white people,
Speaker 1: but like going through a new definition of white people.
Speaker 1: Sure it's based on language. They think of arianism as
Speaker 1: like referring to a linguistic pattern. Yeah, but like in
Speaker 1: a university course, we still had to go through and
Speaker 1: like debunk these myths because they've gotten so pervasive within
Speaker 1: the culture. Yeah. And another thing I want to say
Speaker 1: is that kind of these more entry level conspiracy ideas,
Speaker 1: it is hard to over emphasize how small the spaces
Speaker 1: between the entry level stuff and the much harder stuff.
Speaker 1: It can happen extremely, extremely, you know, I'll give I'll
Speaker 1: give an example. I went to you I was reporting
Speaker 1: on an anti vax protest and they went straight into
Speaker 1: talking about New World Order and Project Locks, Lockstep and
Speaker 1: and the raw Childs and the Builderers and like the
Speaker 1: Sabbatines and David Ice ship just me and this is
Speaker 1: this was the middle of the day and like a
Speaker 1: metropolitan area with a bunch of boomers and trump paths
Speaker 1: who are getting this like hardcore ship pumped at them
Speaker 1: or you uh sell that a lot. With the Nashville bombing,
Speaker 1: to like immediately it was like, oh, it was actually
Speaker 1: an attack on dominion. And also it was orchestrated by
Speaker 1: the roths Childs to destroy evidence of voter for I
Speaker 1: forgot that. Yeah, And then also there was a whole like,
Speaker 1: there was a bunch of stuff that came up. There
Speaker 1: is a big conspiracy that it was actually a missile strike.
Speaker 1: I had to talk of my grandpa down from that.
Speaker 1: There was a video that circulated for a while about
Speaker 1: then I had to get into a conversation with my grandpa,
Speaker 1: but at the time was super isolated because of COVID
Speaker 1: and that's a whole yeah, And I had to like
Speaker 1: talk him down and show him like, no, here's uh,
Speaker 1: here's a video from somebody I knew who was like
Speaker 1: somewhat in the area and saw the explosion and like,
Speaker 1: and there was not a missile anywhere the day. One
Speaker 1: of the data studies that I've done is UM and
Speaker 1: worked on is using big pool and small pool discord
Speaker 1: servers of far right extremists UM, far right militia groups
Speaker 1: and UM very very like accelerationist skull mass type networks
Speaker 1: UM and looking at the big pools and small pools
Speaker 1: and seeing the app mentions between them, and there was
Speaker 1: not one person who was more than three notes away
Speaker 1: from anybody else. So it's very it can't be overstated
Speaker 1: how close people are from entry to very very very
Speaker 1: extreme h types of goals and ideology, explicit ideologies that
Speaker 1: explicitly pushed violence. And you know, another point I want
Speaker 1: to bring up is um like, yeah, there's been much
Speaker 1: said about Queen On isn't going away. It's just not
Speaker 1: called quan On anymore. Um with with these anti vax mobilization,
Speaker 1: those mobilizations and groups aren't going away. They're just going
Speaker 1: to continue to shift in evolve their focus and the network,
Speaker 1: and they're planning for it like they've they've they've they've
Speaker 1: designed it that way. So I sometimes I find the
Speaker 1: normal stuff first, sometimes I find the crazy stuff first.
Speaker 1: But I mean, not even that long ago. I came
Speaker 1: across a particular social media profile that was explicitly calling
Speaker 1: for acts of terror and attempting to organize acts of
Speaker 1: terror and displaying acts of terror, which is like an
Speaker 1: immediate problem that needs to be dealt with. However, they
Speaker 1: had multiple alternate accounts that you follow that path, and
Speaker 1: on their other accounts they're sharing like Tucker Carlson, stuff
Speaker 1: like things that your grandparents are going to watch right like,
Speaker 1: and that is done on purpose to try to like
Speaker 1: siphon people out of um more quote unquote mainstream versions
Speaker 1: of like conspiratorial thinking directly into like you should start
Speaker 1: exploding things, and even even more even more, let's sa
Speaker 1: left of center conspiracy thinking ties into this, and it's not,
Speaker 1: you know, conspiracy theories are not solely a thing of
Speaker 1: the right, which which passed me off to no end. No,
Speaker 1: I just want to back you up on that, Like
Speaker 1: I think there's this maybe this like implicit idea that
Speaker 1: the left is immune to conspiracy theories when it very
Speaker 1: much is. Um. Yeah, I just wanted to emphasize that point. Yeah,
Speaker 1: that idea though, of like never being that far from
Speaker 1: the serious stuff is something that's really really observable, even
Speaker 1: beyond like a data level. I I used to like
Speaker 1: consult with local newsrooms on how to report on things,
Speaker 1: and one of the big points I always tried to
Speaker 1: drill in was like, if you fuck this up and
Speaker 1: you frame this the wrong way, it will have consequences.
Speaker 1: And if this is stepping in it too much, we
Speaker 1: can come literally but like the um Dylan Roof. Dylan
Speaker 1: Roof started his journey to radicalization by reading about Trayvon
Speaker 1: Martin in local news websites and local newspapers and then
Speaker 1: googling black on White crime and his first result up
Speaker 1: by the same exact thing exactly, and like it does
Speaker 1: not It did not take long for him to go
Speaker 1: from I am reading local news articles that are framed
Speaker 1: this specific way to I am killing people. That's not normal,
Speaker 1: of course, like a lot of people are not going
Speaker 1: to be reading local news and then suddenly start to
Speaker 1: think this way, but like there is a concerted effort
Speaker 1: by some very specific people who would like to make
Speaker 1: that pathway easier. It's well, it's interesting because we don't
Speaker 1: we can't like define it really as terrorism. What are
Speaker 1: they doing the like just they're just saying things, They're
Speaker 1: just encouraging people to do things, and like they're not
Speaker 1: like they're not doing anything wrong. We can't really call
Speaker 1: it terrorism. The most dangerous people in this game are
Speaker 1: usually not the ones doing the shooting, people behind the
Speaker 1: scenes trying to people to go on these paths in
Speaker 1: the first looking for people who are willing and then
Speaker 1: so they see somebody reading local news maybe and they
Speaker 1: want to make that pathway easier for to go from
Speaker 1: local news and Dylan roof like because that's not a
Speaker 1: normal jump, but they really want to find people who
Speaker 1: are looking at local news like that and then say
Speaker 1: to them like, well, okay, you look at this, now
Speaker 1: look at that trying to try us back to climate change.
Speaker 1: How do you see do you see a similar pathway
Speaker 1: instead of instead of someone googling no black white crime,
Speaker 1: like googling stuff about collapse and and and like modern modernization.
Speaker 1: Eric Striker, I don't know. Eric Striker has been on
Speaker 1: about this, and I think that he's a I mean
Speaker 1: relatively like middle point that people get to like fairly
Speaker 1: like average people do listen to things like Eric Stryker
Speaker 1: entry level explicit Nazi and another thing and cut me
Speaker 1: off if we don't want to go in this direction.
Speaker 1: But you know, one of the biggest places where we
Speaker 1: see young people getting into conspiracy theories is tiktoktok alright,
Speaker 1: TikTok cut that cut that cut that we're not we're
Speaker 1: not cutting that that is that is with the branches
Speaker 1: of the pod. Yeah. I mean, the biggest entry points
Speaker 1: I've seen for a lot of things remains crisis. Yeah.
Speaker 1: And the thing is this, our upcoming climate scenario is
Speaker 1: going to give people an easier jumping on point. Well, yeah,
Speaker 1: that's so. I mean we were talking about how like
Speaker 1: the mythology of like black and white crime and all
Speaker 1: this stuff. They're trying to create a situation that, you know,
Speaker 1: with the urgency that justifies fascism, which on its own
Speaker 1: is unjustifiable and ridiculous. But when there's a crisis, climate
Speaker 1: change is the existential threat that they've been trying to
Speaker 1: artificially create, and they no longer have to. They now
Speaker 1: get to skip a lot of steps and save a
Speaker 1: lot of energy by just planning at the fact that
Speaker 1: everything is literally on fire, and that like that that
Speaker 1: makes it so much quicker. Say we have to do something.
Speaker 1: We have all the guns. Now would be a great
Speaker 1: time to join it in our power. This kid, this
Speaker 1: this is our Bimar era hyperinflation type ship. I mean,
Speaker 1: this is like when you're when you can't get food
Speaker 1: from the grocery store anymore because of supply chain problems,
Speaker 1: or when everything around you is on fire. You don't
Speaker 1: need like a grace, you don't need a great replacement theory,
Speaker 1: you don't need anything. You don't need to say that
Speaker 1: the Rothchilds are behind it. You. You haven't just need
Speaker 1: to wait. You have you have enough things that you
Speaker 1: experience yourself, and it's much scary or when you can't
Speaker 1: because I can't, Like how do we how do we stop? Yeah?
Speaker 1: I can't. It's harder. The world is literally on fire.
Speaker 1: It's it's a problem and something needs to be done
Speaker 1: about it. I don't like your solution, but something needs
Speaker 1: to happen. So what what what do you think on
Speaker 1: this path? And this is going to get a whole
Speaker 1: lot more speculative, but like, what can we do to
Speaker 1: make people falling down those pathways less often? Like like, yes,
Speaker 1: that is that, that's that's one of the things that
Speaker 1: we're trying to do on the pot is making sure
Speaker 1: that people do not fall fall down the the doomer
Speaker 1: pathway because yeah, this that that does get people along
Speaker 1: down like against like like against most types of extremism.
Speaker 1: Eco extremism is most logical. Like you look at it
Speaker 1: and you said, we need a radical change right now,
Speaker 1: and that's correct. Um, It's just the way that they
Speaker 1: go about it is very very different. And that's why,
Speaker 1: like you know, eco fascism is very different. It's its
Speaker 1: own type of eco extremism is in green anarchy, that's
Speaker 1: a very different type of eco extremism. Like these are
Speaker 1: all different parts of something that almost has the same
Speaker 1: goals but wants to go about them very very very differently. Again,
Speaker 1: and it's so easy to just look around and see
Speaker 1: how everything's on fire and I think like the government's
Speaker 1: doing nothing about it. The government starts doing something about it,
Speaker 1: and then suddenly it's the state's two bigs were in communism,
Speaker 1: you know, so they all of like different goals and
Speaker 1: it's very conflicting on how to how to deal with
Speaker 1: and like even the very different tactics between green anarchy
Speaker 1: and like fascistic you extremism. They also will get two
Speaker 1: different endicals, right, like you like your your basic amprinm,
Speaker 1: what's a very different life than you're you know, very
Speaker 1: you know very stepping in its pilled fascist right. A
Speaker 1: collapse can only benefit the right, it can't. A collapse
Speaker 1: can only benefit the people who already have power, who
Speaker 1: already able bodied, who already it's stocked up on gone already, Like, yeah,
Speaker 1: that does frustrate me with their being anarchists who are
Speaker 1: like rooting for the collapse because you're not gonna win,
Speaker 1: like you're just going to get behind a fence somewhere
Speaker 1: on the wall. Yeah, well, they've got very strict ideas
Speaker 1: of which people count as human and the goal of
Speaker 1: the majority of fascist movements is to you know, purge
Speaker 1: the ranks of the people they see is lesser, and
Speaker 1: they have they have they have very precise ideas about
Speaker 1: who they plan on letting to survive the collapse. So
Speaker 1: let's let's I think it's time to start talking about
Speaker 1: and tell me if I'm taking this in the long direction.
Speaker 1: You know what the funding someone who's listening to this, Yeah, recycle,
Speaker 1: stop recycling, it's all, it's all getting buried in the
Speaker 1: organ force. Just vote, vote. I mean, like, what did
Speaker 1: you start local? Find a local group, find a local
Speaker 1: direct action group, investigate that group and see who is
Speaker 1: behind it. But fine, start locally. It has to start
Speaker 1: at the local level, because when should I'm trying to say,
Speaker 1: I'm gonna say, if the collapse comes or like orally no,
Speaker 1: not the collapse like local, local collapses. There's disasters continuiou
Speaker 1: disasters are gonna fec at the local level. No, talk
Speaker 1: to your talk to your neighbors, neighbors, talk to your family, Like,
Speaker 1: let's try to get your family on these paths that
Speaker 1: lead to helping your neighbors instead of you know, making
Speaker 1: friends with the church militia. Before you buy a gun,
Speaker 1: learn how to fucking garden. Yes, but buying a gun
Speaker 1: and that sort of thing is is good. It's good
Speaker 1: to know how to use firearms. Basic emergency preparedness, yes,
Speaker 1: but learn learn how to put on our turn to
Speaker 1: learn how to feed yourself. Learn how to grow some
Speaker 1: fucking food. Learn how to cook that fucking food. Get
Speaker 1: an effect all that comes before, like you get to
Speaker 1: be a fallow up character. Oh yeah, an individual first
Speaker 1: aid kit. You can buy them by the online, can
Speaker 1: buy the stores, you can you can buy them in
Speaker 1: like some pawn shops. Yeah, I like North American Rescue
Speaker 1: or North River Rescue. I'm sure we'll talk about a
Speaker 1: text more on the product. Well there, Look, there are
Speaker 1: two big things. One, we all have a moral obligation
Speaker 1: to consistently counter the black pill doomer ship. Everything is
Speaker 1: coming to an end, like it doesn't have to. That's optional.
Speaker 1: Like we we things are going to get bad, but
Speaker 1: there's degrees of that. We can stop it from being.
Speaker 1: And you don't need civilizational We don't need civilization to
Speaker 1: end like that can be done. So. Two, we also
Speaker 1: have an obligation to counter the individualist stuff and and
Speaker 1: and focus our efforts more towards towards community and relationships.
Speaker 1: And that is so so important because every idiot that's
Speaker 1: going to buy a gun and have a bunker not
Speaker 1: only is not going to make it, but it's gonna
Speaker 1: screw the rest of us. Like this has to be
Speaker 1: a communal effort and a civilization thing, Like we do
Speaker 1: need the civilization to change, like we need human society,
Speaker 1: as we lay out we as has a lot of problems.
Speaker 1: I understand people's critiques of human civilization. We still need
Speaker 1: a society, but yeah, we need we need places that
Speaker 1: you know, people are going to catherine and people you know,
Speaker 1: provide the things that we have. Um. I noticed that
Speaker 1: that can be a loaded word on certain political circles.
Speaker 1: So I'm not you know, we're not getting into like
Speaker 1: civilization theory and that kind of anything. I was going
Speaker 1: to say, I would argue any ideology or ideas just
Speaker 1: the boogaloo that uh kind of hypes up a collapse
Speaker 1: is generally one you should stay away from anything that
Speaker 1: makes the collapse sound like it makes it sound sexy
Speaker 1: and personal story. As I think it's important to remember,
Speaker 1: like if there was some massive civil conflict that happened.
Speaker 1: I think the people who would suffer the most, or
Speaker 1: the noncombatants, talk about anything to deal with it. Yeah, yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: don't talk about a kind of episode of terrorism. Bad. Um, well,
Speaker 1: we'll do plugs of the end. Hold put the gun
Speaker 1: back in your pants together. I was talking about historical
Speaker 1: precedent earlier, about things I've seen in the past with
Speaker 1: collapses and how people with guns and people who with
Speaker 1: training end up being the ones to gain power. Um.
Speaker 1: Something that like I was specifically reading about that was, um,
Speaker 1: like the Rwandan genocide. If you know, it was just
Speaker 1: three months where most of the Susi people were wiped out. Um,
Speaker 1: there are conflicting numbers, so I'm not gonna specifically say
Speaker 1: any but um, you know the more recently like this year.
Speaker 1: Earlier this year, Um was only when Rwanda admitted what
Speaker 1: it was, that it was a genocide. And um, the
Speaker 1: people the armed forces were the ones who became like
Speaker 1: the leaders and then they were backed by the government. Yeah.
Speaker 1: And it's like it can't happen here though we are
Speaker 1: we are immune to this in our response of the world.
Speaker 1: It will not happen here. And the other thing is,
Speaker 1: look at where you get your information from. Seriously, no
Speaker 1: matter who you are, take a long, hard look at
Speaker 1: who you get your even if you're on the left,
Speaker 1: especially if you're actually on the left. You know, if
Speaker 1: you want to hear about something that's happening in an area,
Speaker 1: look at the people who are actually on the ground reporting.
Speaker 1: People don't just rely on like news aggregators. Especially on Twitter.
Speaker 1: There has been a lot of bad, very bad faith
Speaker 1: news agregators on Twitter who are posing as leftist. This
Speaker 1: has been a huge problem, even leftists who just don't
Speaker 1: do their or just do a very bad job. People
Speaker 1: who call themselves like extremism or counter terism researchers and
Speaker 1: they are really talking about anti They say that they
Speaker 1: are counter extremism researchers, and they pose that way, and
Speaker 1: they look sometimes like they could be, sometimes like they're not,
Speaker 1: but like you know, vary varying degrees of life, legitimacy,
Speaker 1: but like they focus only on like the left wing stuff.
Speaker 1: They don't think, they don't see it has to be
Speaker 1: this idea of like keeping it balanced right, like not
Speaker 1: making it just like a far right issue, which I
Speaker 1: would argue I think a lot of other people would
Speaker 1: that this kind of stuff is more concerning issue and
Speaker 1: there is like merit definitely to looking at left acceleration
Speaker 1: left which is not for the record, left accelerationism is
Speaker 1: not talking about anti fascists. But um, it's really not
Speaker 1: time to get like, well, left accelerations will people be
Speaker 1: its own affo. But what what some people do posing
Speaker 1: as um, you know, people who have credibility and are
Speaker 1: able to um kind of sway opinion, They are not
Speaker 1: really doing what they say that they're doing. They're really
Speaker 1: just trying to shift the narrative form of racially motivated
Speaker 1: violent extremism, which to the big obviously to being like
Speaker 1: BLM is racially motivated violent extremes, and they want to
Speaker 1: push that narrative further and further. I think let's let's
Speaker 1: let's let's go, let's kind of probably start to like
Speaker 1: wrap up and say our final thoughts on you know,
Speaker 1: this whole this whole topic. Um, I know, we we didn't.
Speaker 1: We didn't, we did not, we did we did not
Speaker 1: get to talk about like eco defense very much. Anyone
Speaker 1: has any final thoughts on that and how they see
Speaker 1: it kind of growing and how they see the state's
Speaker 1: response to it. Um, that might be worth briefly mentioning. Yeah,
Speaker 1: let's kind of let's let kind of go around in
Speaker 1: a circle and give kind of everyone's you know, final
Speaker 1: thoughts on the on the subjects. Um, I think collapse
Speaker 1: is bad and I think that well, I mean that's
Speaker 1: my main my main thing. But anything that's uh appealing
Speaker 1: to you and on like an ecological level that's collapsed
Speaker 1: related to something you should be very wary of. And
Speaker 1: I think you should be ware very wary of, like
Speaker 1: generally everything. I feel like it's kind of like a butcher,
Speaker 1: be careful about everything. Um. Yeah, I guess in my opinion,
Speaker 1: the idea of total collapse is very misleading because it's
Speaker 1: easy and disasters don't work like that. You're not going
Speaker 1: to suddenly reset one day. Um. Everything is going to suck,
Speaker 1: and you're going to need to fight for whatever semblance
Speaker 1: of a society that you want to see in the world.
Speaker 1: Talk to your neighbors. That can people in your city,
Speaker 1: in your neighborhood. There are people doing good ship in
Speaker 1: whatever city town you live in most likely, if not,
Speaker 1: you can start it. Look at your local mutual aid network,
Speaker 1: Look at the people who are taking action around and
Speaker 1: get involved seriously. You know, it could be going out
Speaker 1: into a park Saturday mornings and just like giving out food,
Speaker 1: talking to the people who are most affective, talked to
Speaker 1: people seriously every once a person. You need to talk
Speaker 1: to touch grass, you talk to people if you need,
Speaker 1: like the most basic thing to start on any sort
Speaker 1: of mutual aid work trying to find a food not
Speaker 1: ball chapter in your They're well organized, they're easy to
Speaker 1: join it. You don't have to put on block and
Speaker 1: fight a cop. It's yeah, it's a good entry point
Speaker 1: and it's it's great. That's great training for for disaster relief.
Speaker 1: If you have money and you want to help seriously,
Speaker 1: just give cash to on house, people on the street.
Speaker 1: You give money, give money to people, give money directly
Speaker 1: to people. Yep. Uh. My last thoughts are just that
Speaker 1: I think the idea of collapse or whether actual collapse themselves,
Speaker 1: environmental or otherwise, will always be something to rally behind,
Speaker 1: Like it is always an entry point as well as
Speaker 1: a motivator from from all for all sides, from all sides. Um.
Speaker 1: But it's like when these things become very silent, like
Speaker 1: was mentioned before, when they're outside of your door, that's
Speaker 1: when you know, that's when like the ideology kind of
Speaker 1: hits the pavement, like what is actually going to play out,
Speaker 1: what is actually going to happen, and how that's gonna
Speaker 1: affect people. It's very real. So building community, you know,
Speaker 1: building connections and just understanding you know, who is in
Speaker 1: your community. It's probably one of the most important things. Yeah,
Speaker 1: the idea of collapse is a romantic and ridiculous notion.
Speaker 1: Uh come up with people who are like really into
Speaker 1: like apocalyptic thinking and the version of themselves where they
Speaker 1: get to be the main character. So first and foremost
Speaker 1: take care of each other. There are a lot of
Speaker 1: people out there who want to manipulate you and want
Speaker 1: to change the way you think about things, and they
Speaker 1: really really want you to buy in to the end
Speaker 1: times and you don't have to because you're smarter than that. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it's it's not hopeless. We really have to move away
Speaker 1: from hierarchical thinking. Our society really incentivized this hierarchical thinking
Speaker 1: and thinking. I was saying to is sect like we um,
Speaker 1: we really need to just be focusing on people, like
Speaker 1: if things people, because you know, somebody doesn't have to
Speaker 1: you know, earn you know, respect and earn humanity. For
Speaker 1: some reason, we try and make it seem like that.
Speaker 1: But people are people. Um, people are in different circumstances
Speaker 1: because of usually because of just the way that the
Speaker 1: world is. And um, yeah, you need to just you
Speaker 1: need to organize locally. You need to help your own
Speaker 1: people and stay away from the internet. Ship stop posting.
Speaker 1: Stop posting, as I'm as, stop posting, even though like
Speaker 1: we'll keep doing it because I'm the good posters. Um,
Speaker 1: who wants who wants to plug the pot? Your PCT
Speaker 1: follow terrorism bad? We're on what is the pot? Like? What? What?
Speaker 1: What do you? Yeah? We go through, um, portrayals of
Speaker 1: terrorism and extremism and conspiracies and conspiracies in popular media,
Speaker 1: and we get it from the perspective of people who
Speaker 1: studied this and say, did this succeed in portraying these
Speaker 1: things or did it as more often does problems completely
Speaker 1: fail and cause us all personal problems be propaganda? And
Speaker 1: did you make care of propaganda or did you make
Speaker 1: good media about That is a thin line, I mean
Speaker 1: such a thin line. I've made a career out that
Speaker 1: is that is the thin terror line? Yeah, do you
Speaker 1: want to plug your fantastic group. Yeah, absolutely with you
Speaker 1: can read anything I read at Anti Hate dot c
Speaker 1: A and we do just general reporting on uh far
Speaker 1: right extremism in Canada as well as Infiltration podcast. Oh
Speaker 1: and I also host a podcast called The Unusual Show. Yeah,
Speaker 1: if you want to keep up to date on extremism
Speaker 1: in Canada, their group is one of is probably the
Speaker 1: best one around right now in my opinions. And yeah,
Speaker 1: you do, you do, you do very good work. You
Speaker 1: keep your eye on my home country where my family lives.
Speaker 1: So thank you for that. Um, and I'm very happy
Speaker 1: to to be talking with you guys in the beautiful
Speaker 1: woods where we have no cell service. We can't post
Speaker 1: um and that's good and we're gonna continue doing that
Speaker 1: and stop using this microphone. So goodbye. Um yeah and
Speaker 1: terrorist and at the podcast. With that, that wraps up
Speaker 1: the Terrorism round Table Forest Discussion episodes. Thanks for listening
Speaker 1: to all of us rant about our specific weird niche
Speaker 1: focuses and hopefully trying to have it within the useful
Speaker 1: context of climate change. You can follow me at Hungry Bowtie.
Speaker 1: You can follow the podcast Happen Here pod and cool
Speaker 1: Zone Media on Twitter, and I believe Instagram, you can
Speaker 1: follow some of the researchers. I interviewed UM on their
Speaker 1: podcast at Terrorism Bad. So that wraps up this discussion.
Speaker 1: Thanks for listening, See you later in the podcasting verse,
Speaker 1: the pod verse. Okay, goodbye, Okay. It could Happen here
Speaker 1: as a production of cool Zone Media. For more podcasts
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Speaker 1: for listening,