WEBVTT - Part Two: Roundtable on the Future of Terrorism 0:00:04.040 --> 0:00:07.080 Welcome to it could happen here. I'm Garrison Davis. This 0:00:07.160 --> 0:00:11.400 is part two of our terrorism Roundtable discussion. If you 0:00:11.400 --> 0:00:13.480 haven't listened to part one already, I would recommend you 0:00:13.760 --> 0:00:16.680 scroll back, listen to the previous episode and then continue 0:00:16.680 --> 0:00:18.560 on from here so you have kind of context to 0:00:18.800 --> 0:00:21.880 what exactly we're talking about. Anyway, this is part two 0:00:22.040 --> 0:00:25.360 of our discussion in the Woods. I hope you enjoy. 0:00:27.000 --> 0:00:29.720 Something that we've talked about earlier this year after January six, 0:00:30.120 --> 0:00:33.479 was like should the government ban telegram? Right? That was 0:00:33.520 --> 0:00:35.040 the thing And there's a lot of a lot of 0:00:35.159 --> 0:00:40.000 arguments are like no, absolutely not, and there's does it? 0:00:40.040 --> 0:00:41.280 Does anyone want to speak on that? Because you know, 0:00:41.320 --> 0:00:43.479 because like if I want to talk about the government's 0:00:43.520 --> 0:00:45.680 response to these things, you know, that's a very government 0:00:45.840 --> 0:00:47.960 thing to do. Be like, oh, people are organized on 0:00:48.000 --> 0:00:50.920 this platform, get out of the platform. Problem gone, you know, 0:00:51.040 --> 0:00:53.600 and that's not how that works. You want us talking 0:00:53.640 --> 0:00:57.520 that a little bit? Sure? Um? Yeah, so there, Yeah, 0:00:57.520 --> 0:01:01.720 getting rid of the platform? Doesn't that necessarily help, especially 0:01:01.760 --> 0:01:04.640 when it's something that is important, such as like you know, 0:01:04.760 --> 0:01:07.240 encrypted communication, which is something that more people than just 0:01:07.760 --> 0:01:11.920 Nazis need. Um And that resource should not be cut off. 0:01:11.959 --> 0:01:13.800 And there's also kind of a bad precedent to be 0:01:13.920 --> 0:01:17.640 set if the if the government is deciding which uh 0:01:17.800 --> 0:01:20.200 forms of speech it needs to have complete access to. 0:01:20.360 --> 0:01:23.760 I don't love that. Um. The other thing is that 0:01:23.840 --> 0:01:28.160 if we knew telegram, right, they don't disappear, they formed 0:01:28.200 --> 0:01:37.160 that networks there just harder to hard. People are absolutely 0:01:37.160 --> 0:01:39.800 correct when they say D platforming works because it works 0:01:39.840 --> 0:01:42.200 for the platform and a lot of people just want that. 0:01:42.240 --> 0:01:44.199 A lot of people just don't want to see Nazi 0:01:44.240 --> 0:01:46.240 ship and they're fine with you know, D platform and 0:01:46.240 --> 0:01:48.760 they say this works, and they have data to backup 0:01:48.800 --> 0:01:51.480 that it does work. But it works for the platform. 0:01:51.520 --> 0:01:54.840 But the people still exist, Yeah, still boosting their own 0:01:54.840 --> 0:01:58.320 ship and when they bring up building their own all 0:01:58.400 --> 0:02:03.160 tech platforms, you know works there early yeah, yeah, yeah, 0:02:03.240 --> 0:02:05.840 and there is elements that Yeah, D platform is a 0:02:05.840 --> 0:02:08.240 wider thing can or especially for like in person stuff, 0:02:08.880 --> 0:02:11.079 but yeah, for your sort of the things you're mentioning, yes, 0:02:11.120 --> 0:02:14.320 it is. It is definitely not not that cut and dry. 0:02:14.480 --> 0:02:17.400 You know, I'm really interesting because it is kind of 0:02:17.440 --> 0:02:20.720 this middle space between social media and just a messaging app. Yeah. 0:02:21.400 --> 0:02:23.960 The thing about it too, is that anybody can look 0:02:24.000 --> 0:02:27.000 at these you know, the public channels, so without without 0:02:27.080 --> 0:02:29.639 saying anything in the chance, so people could be kind 0:02:29.639 --> 0:02:32.720 of completely invisible. Nobody like nobody knows that they're there. 0:02:32.800 --> 0:02:36.320 They're watching this stuff, and they're still getting the same messaging, 0:02:36.560 --> 0:02:39.480 they're still getting the same dates for protests, they're still 0:02:39.480 --> 0:02:43.000 like organizing. But they can be uh, sort of just 0:02:43.160 --> 0:02:45.880 subscribe to a channel and you don't even need to 0:02:45.919 --> 0:02:48.959 be subscribed. You can, yeah, just looking into it and 0:02:49.120 --> 0:02:53.600 getting that flow of information without ever having like formal organizing, 0:02:53.639 --> 0:02:56.600 so to speak. And so it's really hard to say that, like, 0:02:57.160 --> 0:03:01.600 you know, these people planned this because there's a lot 0:03:01.639 --> 0:03:04.640 of claus bolts and ability and involved. There's so much 0:03:04.639 --> 0:03:07.520 easy hyber linking between groups and channels and everything. So 0:03:07.520 --> 0:03:11.080 it's so easy for someone to move between ideology and 0:03:11.160 --> 0:03:13.120 to go from kind of like the base level ship 0:03:13.160 --> 0:03:18.440 and to be much deeper stuff extremely quick, very quick. Yeah, 0:03:18.440 --> 0:03:21.760 actually quick. Well that's like that's good and that's good 0:03:21.800 --> 0:03:24.640 for them. About telegram is that you have all of 0:03:24.680 --> 0:03:28.560 the people that are vulnerable to let's say, new ideas 0:03:28.639 --> 0:03:34.040 in one place exactly if you're trying to plan a collapse, 0:03:34.040 --> 0:03:36.840 you're gonna need a lot more people than the numbers 0:03:36.880 --> 0:03:39.080 that the people who want the collapse actually have. So 0:03:39.200 --> 0:03:42.080 the easiest way to kind of move things along is 0:03:42.080 --> 0:03:45.280 to sert inserting their ideas and their discourses and kind 0:03:45.280 --> 0:03:50.960 of altering the vibe of certain digital environments manually until 0:03:51.120 --> 0:03:56.200 they have um, what we can kindly call cannon fodder. Yeah, 0:03:56.600 --> 0:03:59.240 or even starting their own and saying like, you know, 0:03:59.320 --> 0:04:03.640 this is a maga platform and it's actually just you know, 0:04:03.760 --> 0:04:06.280 went some bunch of accelerationists too made it, and they 0:04:06.280 --> 0:04:08.800 made it to recruit them because he saw attempts of 0:04:08.880 --> 0:04:10.560 this with like Q and on its people who are 0:04:10.600 --> 0:04:14.440 way more slavation is trying to use people's extreme It 0:04:14.520 --> 0:04:18.240 was successful and they did it and people died. Well 0:04:18.360 --> 0:04:21.480 you're I mean that. And then also you've got like 0:04:21.480 --> 0:04:23.359 like the idea of the boogaloo right that's being co 0:04:23.480 --> 0:04:26.880 opted to try to appeal to leftists, and I mean 0:04:27.080 --> 0:04:29.200 there's a really good article by Left Coast Right Watch 0:04:29.240 --> 0:04:31.560 that goes into one of those chats and they're basically like, yeah, 0:04:31.600 --> 0:04:34.360 I really try to push these ideas of really try 0:04:34.400 --> 0:04:36.279 to push talking points like black lives matter and all 0:04:36.279 --> 0:04:38.920 of us who want to get these protesters on our side. 0:04:39.320 --> 0:04:43.800 And then you also have um, some blatant like white 0:04:44.000 --> 0:04:46.920 supremacist groups who are all using the boogaloo, and how 0:04:46.960 --> 0:04:49.000 much of that too is like how much that is 0:04:50.240 --> 0:04:53.680 sort of real genuine like I am not racist, I 0:04:53.720 --> 0:04:56.440 believe in black lives matter, like I want to be 0:04:56.560 --> 0:05:00.400 part of this even though or like much of it 0:05:00.440 --> 0:05:02.800 also is um kind of reminiscent of what we were 0:05:02.800 --> 0:05:04.560 talking about or how about my stuff in it? But 0:05:04.720 --> 0:05:08.160 like with you know, the idea of from Anson of 0:05:08.279 --> 0:05:11.600 like Healter Skelter and like causing that race where it's 0:05:11.640 --> 0:05:13.839 like they what they would do is like try and 0:05:13.920 --> 0:05:16.240 frame black people for it and say like this was 0:05:16.440 --> 0:05:19.440 you know yeah, yeah, I mean, and how much of 0:05:19.480 --> 0:05:22.440 it is saying like this is black lives matter and 0:05:22.560 --> 0:05:25.520 they want people to see that after they do. The 0:05:25.560 --> 0:05:27.960 Googleloo group that showed up in Portland in January in 0:05:28.120 --> 0:05:32.360 July when the particular fads were happening, now that they 0:05:32.400 --> 0:05:34.240 showed up and we're all like, yeah, we're here to 0:05:34.240 --> 0:05:36.479 support black lives matter and standing against the federal government 0:05:36.480 --> 0:05:40.080 and stuff, um, and they had some very suspicious patches 0:05:40.440 --> 0:05:42.480 that it took me took me about a year to 0:05:42.520 --> 0:05:46.280 figure out what they were. And it's like this accelerationist like, um, 0:05:46.520 --> 0:05:48.120 it ties into a whole bunch of like eco fascist 0:05:48.160 --> 0:05:51.440 propaganda stuff. Um and yeah, it's like they're they're saying 0:05:51.480 --> 0:05:55.520 these things, well they have these very obscure patches, um 0:05:55.640 --> 0:05:58.440 and yeah, this is an important reason why we need 0:05:59.160 --> 0:06:01.719 people who are not very smart, Like I will say, 0:06:01.800 --> 0:06:04.800 Jimmy dor who puts these gives these people platforms are 0:06:04.920 --> 0:06:06.599 some of the worst and are going to cause a 0:06:06.600 --> 0:06:09.200 lot of problems because they have no idea what they're 0:06:09.200 --> 0:06:10.920 doing or they know what they're doing, and they're just bad. 0:06:12.080 --> 0:06:14.039 And like that boogle boo thing kind of serves a 0:06:14.080 --> 0:06:18.760 twofold purpose in that you can bring people who self 0:06:18.760 --> 0:06:21.760 identify as leftists into the movement, but you also have 0:06:21.839 --> 0:06:25.760 a really good scapegoat for like actual Actually that was 0:06:25.760 --> 0:06:27.880 a big thing that we saw in Minneapolis when things 0:06:28.400 --> 0:06:31.680 first popped off, and like Precinct was getting burned down 0:06:32.279 --> 0:06:34.840 and suddenly people on the internet start losing their minds 0:06:34.880 --> 0:06:40.640 about the umbrella guy at the and there was a 0:06:40.760 --> 0:06:43.880 guy who was indicted. He was a boo boo boy 0:06:43.880 --> 0:06:47.360 who was indicted for um like headlines said burning down 0:06:47.400 --> 0:06:49.640 the precinct. He fired a weapon, and he fired a 0:06:49.680 --> 0:06:53.560 gun on like near the wall exactly, and so that 0:06:53.839 --> 0:06:56.360 at the same time takes away agency from left wing 0:06:56.440 --> 0:06:59.039 movement and the States able to be like, look, see, 0:06:59.040 --> 0:07:01.239 it's just it's okay that cracked down on them because 0:07:01.279 --> 0:07:04.640 they're all, you know, wild white supremacists exactly, just from 0:07:04.640 --> 0:07:06.400 any autonomous room with the forms of the people in 0:07:06.400 --> 0:07:08.800 a community that isn't that we wouldn't necessarily refer to 0:07:08.839 --> 0:07:10.960 his left. It's just piste off people. I mean, that's 0:07:10.960 --> 0:07:14.400 what we saw in every single you know, everybody, the 0:07:14.440 --> 0:07:16.320 young kids who are sucking piste off and are going 0:07:16.360 --> 0:07:18.840 to go smash it. And it's like saying, all of 0:07:18.880 --> 0:07:20.520 this is people from outside of the town where it's 0:07:20.520 --> 0:07:24.200 like I know, yeah, it's a tale as old as time, 0:07:24.240 --> 0:07:27.040 Like outside agitator has been used since before this. It's 0:07:27.080 --> 0:07:29.920 a very old state talking point. Yeah, what are you 0:07:29.960 --> 0:07:33.280 gonna say that? Um, yeah, I was gonna say. Also, 0:07:34.120 --> 0:07:36.320 it's somewhat related to that we're talking about using like 0:07:36.400 --> 0:07:39.200 human on his cannon fodder, and also ties into the 0:07:39.280 --> 0:07:42.960 sab sit conversation we're having. So my research I special 0:07:43.000 --> 0:07:46.800 are not specialized. I focus on Christian identity, this white 0:07:46.800 --> 0:07:50.600 supremacist ideology, and how specifically how it's grown since the 0:07:50.680 --> 0:07:53.920 nineties until now through like the Internet and all that 0:07:53.960 --> 0:07:57.760 fun stuff. This whole point they've been pushing lately is 0:07:57.840 --> 0:08:02.360 to like there this with Christian identity. The whole thing 0:08:02.440 --> 0:08:05.560 is they are preparing for the apocalypse, which they called 0:08:05.560 --> 0:08:10.160 the tribulations. And they see modern see I folks see 0:08:10.200 --> 0:08:12.880 the boogaloo as like the tribulation that's coming. So what 0:08:12.920 --> 0:08:15.880 they're trying to do is go off grid and really 0:08:15.880 --> 0:08:19.160 try to like establish this new land or like to 0:08:19.200 --> 0:08:21.280 protect their kids and everything from like pollution and all 0:08:21.280 --> 0:08:24.720 that ship, but also to be away from the collapse 0:08:24.720 --> 0:08:27.600 and be able to start buy it. And then while 0:08:27.640 --> 0:08:30.760 they're doing all that, like prepping homesteads and compounds and stuff, 0:08:30.800 --> 0:08:36.480 they're also like pushing like election fraud conspiracies and all 0:08:36.559 --> 0:08:38.400 that on like Q and on and the maggot crowd 0:08:38.880 --> 0:08:40.800 because they believe it. Not because yeah, right, they don't 0:08:40.800 --> 0:08:42.880 believe it. They know it's bullshit, but they can use 0:08:42.920 --> 0:08:47.000 it to accelerate collapse, just like January says, yes, so exactly. 0:08:47.160 --> 0:08:50.160 I mean when I mean there are groups when Joe 0:08:50.160 --> 0:08:53.120 Biden won the presidency or won the election or whatever. 0:08:54.679 --> 0:08:56.920 Some groups being like, yeah, I really try to push 0:08:56.960 --> 0:08:59.959 this theory, this conspiracy about election fraud, even if you 0:09:00.080 --> 0:09:01.599 even if you don't believe in it, just push it 0:09:01.640 --> 0:09:05.440 because that helps our cause. And that's that's something to 0:09:05.480 --> 0:09:09.719 be really mindful of too. Forgot where else I was 0:09:09.760 --> 0:09:11.680 going with that. Well, yeah, a lot of them don't 0:09:11.800 --> 0:09:15.280 mean what they say. They'll say things that will push 0:09:15.400 --> 0:09:19.360 other people to do something that they don't necessarily want 0:09:19.400 --> 0:09:20.880 to do. And that's a lot of a lot of 0:09:20.880 --> 0:09:24.920 Like during January six, so much excitement because they could 0:09:25.000 --> 0:09:27.920 see that the Q and on crowd are actually mobilizing, 0:09:28.480 --> 0:09:31.120 and so they said to them, like to themselves, like, 0:09:33.559 --> 0:09:36.680 you know, get them, get the mobilizing for the white race, 0:09:36.720 --> 0:09:41.480 get the mobilizing for you know, our cause. And they've 0:09:41.800 --> 0:09:47.400 really successfully been able to infiltrate that and be able 0:09:47.440 --> 0:09:50.120 to get some people on board with some of it 0:09:50.559 --> 0:09:53.240 just based on using their rhetoric. Yeah, I know, I 0:09:53.280 --> 0:09:57.000 talked about this on our podcast, but you could see it, 0:09:57.200 --> 0:10:00.240 like I reported on January six, in person, and like 0:10:00.559 --> 0:10:02.840 you could watch it happen. Someone with a skull mask 0:10:02.920 --> 0:10:07.280 on or proud boy or an oath keeper would literally 0:10:07.360 --> 0:10:10.640 come back from the police line, grab a group of people, 0:10:11.040 --> 0:10:13.240 yell something at them about Q and On or the 0:10:13.280 --> 0:10:16.120 storms upon us, and throw them up to that riot 0:10:16.160 --> 0:10:18.640 line until I did a really good did a really 0:10:18.640 --> 0:10:22.280 good visual investigation of how those extremistcupes used mega people 0:10:22.320 --> 0:10:24.920 in Q and On people as their foot soldiers. Qua 0:10:25.080 --> 0:10:29.559 a folk Qua didn't really good break down their animous podcast. Yea, yeah. 0:10:30.280 --> 0:10:33.200 But it's also with I mean not to link everything 0:10:33.280 --> 0:10:35.360 the Christian identity, which I have a tendency to do, 0:10:35.760 --> 0:10:39.559 but it's it's very ideologically similar to Q and On, 0:10:39.720 --> 0:10:42.280 like from a Christianity point of view, Like that's Q 0:10:42.440 --> 0:10:44.760 and On is like so close to the edge of 0:10:44.840 --> 0:10:47.640 Christian identity. It's very scary. Actually I talked about it 0:10:47.679 --> 0:10:52.679 on Jake Hammer Hands Q Clarence podcast. But there's also 0:10:52.840 --> 0:10:56.000 like not only trying to who accelerate things through them, 0:10:56.000 --> 0:10:58.920 but also trying to recruit them through these like very 0:10:59.040 --> 0:11:01.160 very similar talking bo It's about like the Synagogue of 0:11:01.200 --> 0:11:04.000 Satan and all that, saying that Christian identity is an 0:11:04.120 --> 0:11:06.200 entry point for some of them, some of them can 0:11:06.280 --> 0:11:10.040 bring it up as an entry point into further like 0:11:10.080 --> 0:11:15.440 accelerationist Nazi ship, but like they will start with Christian 0:11:15.440 --> 0:11:18.240 identity because I think that it's more pactual to people 0:11:18.240 --> 0:11:21.000 who already believe in Q and on. Yeah exactly. I mean, 0:11:21.200 --> 0:11:23.240 like Will was saying, these there's a lot of this 0:11:23.320 --> 0:11:27.000 comes from these kind of boomer conspiracies and anti vax groups, 0:11:27.040 --> 0:11:28.680 and you're not going to be able to get you know, 0:11:29.000 --> 0:11:31.839 Mimon pap pap into like Wotonism or something like that 0:11:32.679 --> 0:11:36.760 hard enough, you can't. But like Christianity is something that's palatable. 0:11:36.760 --> 0:11:38.960 It's something that's normal to them, and as you can 0:11:39.040 --> 0:11:41.040 kind of slowly tweak it through to it on, you 0:11:41.040 --> 0:11:43.400 can get them to this much work stream Like okay, 0:11:43.400 --> 0:11:46.880 talk about Christian identity. I think we should, like maybe Matt, 0:11:46.920 --> 0:11:50.440 you could define it Christian identity. It's this radical offshoot 0:11:50.480 --> 0:11:53.040 of Christianity that sees all white people as a true 0:11:53.160 --> 0:11:56.960 Israelites from the Bible um. And they also think Jewish 0:11:56.960 --> 0:12:00.360 people are all literally the spawn of say And there's 0:12:00.400 --> 0:12:03.680 this really dumb theory they came up with and like 0:12:03.720 --> 0:12:06.960 kind of rewrote the whole Bible off of called can 0:12:07.000 --> 0:12:10.440 I name z okay okay dual seed line theory where 0:12:10.440 --> 0:12:14.040 they say, like the story if you know about uh, 0:12:14.360 --> 0:12:18.320 like Adam and even all that they had Caine enabled, right, 0:12:18.400 --> 0:12:22.880 so they see, um Kane was the offspring of Eve 0:12:23.040 --> 0:12:25.640 and the devil and he was literally the spawn of 0:12:25.679 --> 0:12:28.440 Satan and then he intermingled with all these races that 0:12:28.480 --> 0:12:31.760 were there before Adam and Eve and created this demonic race. 0:12:31.800 --> 0:12:35.920 And it's really really fucking dumb, but it's still here. 0:12:36.120 --> 0:12:39.959 It's been for the tot minute. I'm probably going to 0:12:40.080 --> 0:12:43.480 keep going. It's gonna get worse calling it now, it's 0:12:43.480 --> 0:12:47.760 gonna get worse. Yeah, but uh, and the whole thing 0:12:47.840 --> 0:12:50.680 is they essentially like worshiped like a Nazi Jesus. They 0:12:50.720 --> 0:12:55.400 see Jesus only was really only talking to the white race, 0:12:55.480 --> 0:12:59.320 and that Christianity and like God only is able to 0:12:59.360 --> 0:13:02.000 be perceived to buy the white race. And before you 0:13:02.040 --> 0:13:04.600 start laughing at people, because yes, it does sound very silly, 0:13:04.960 --> 0:13:08.480 keep in mind that these are extremely dangerous, like right, 0:13:08.559 --> 0:13:10.000 this is this is one problem with two and on 0:13:10.040 --> 0:13:12.120 when liberals just start laughing about how crazy it is, 0:13:12.120 --> 0:13:15.400 and then they're so surprised at January six, where like no, no, 0:13:15.440 --> 0:13:22.040 like it's yeah, like they're actually dangerous because you've mentioned 0:13:22.040 --> 0:13:23.800 in a lot. Yeah, and he's chricially that he's been 0:13:23.800 --> 0:13:28.199 mentioned in various manifestos linked to you know, actually has 0:13:28.280 --> 0:13:34.560 warned very like organized. It's like I mean, historically I 0:13:34.559 --> 0:13:37.439 think part of like with Christian identity, with a lot 0:13:37.440 --> 0:13:40.480 of these kind of like a lot of them based 0:13:40.520 --> 0:13:45.160 their like whole historical context of like arianism on this 0:13:45.360 --> 0:13:49.600 rewriting of history based on um a fake study that 0:13:49.720 --> 0:13:56.280 was done in Nazi Germany about uh where some proto 0:13:56.400 --> 0:13:59.400 Indo European languages came from. And so they believe that 0:13:59.440 --> 0:14:04.240 like white people came from uh an area that's you know, 0:14:04.280 --> 0:14:08.960 you could generally say it's certainly near the Black Sea. UM, 0:14:08.960 --> 0:14:13.560 and that it's based on this like strange idea that 0:14:13.600 --> 0:14:21.200 like Sanskrit is not the oldest language, but like are 0:14:21.200 --> 0:14:24.960 you pointing the gun at me because I'm stepping in you? 0:14:30.120 --> 0:14:33.680 I think it actually is useful and yeah, there there 0:14:33.760 --> 0:14:38.440 is actual because they really tried to push this. They 0:14:38.480 --> 0:14:41.680 made um a lot of fake studies that you could 0:14:42.080 --> 0:14:44.960 spend a lot of time researching this and believe that 0:14:45.000 --> 0:14:48.600 it's true, UM, because there's just so much written about it. 0:14:48.640 --> 0:14:50.880 And I think this is like a tactic that they 0:14:50.920 --> 0:14:54.280 really tend to do with historical revisionism. Allat is just 0:14:54.800 --> 0:14:57.840 crank out essay after essay, even if it's wrong, even 0:14:57.840 --> 0:15:02.920 if it's totally like based on false data, just doesn't 0:15:02.960 --> 0:15:05.360 data that they don't care. They just write about it 0:15:05.400 --> 0:15:08.360 and then they think that like having more written about 0:15:08.360 --> 0:15:10.800 it makes it more legitimate. And if that's what we 0:15:10.840 --> 0:15:13.120 are talking to I've been talking about this this whole 0:15:13.160 --> 0:15:17.520 time we've been not recording. Is there's just an overflow 0:15:17.560 --> 0:15:21.560 of content that is so easy to access, you know, 0:15:21.640 --> 0:15:26.320 not necessarily from these specificers they're talking about, just from 0:15:26.360 --> 0:15:30.160 the further right. In general, I just overflow the content. 0:15:30.200 --> 0:15:43.840 It's like always the top ship on Facebook. To give 0:15:43.880 --> 0:15:46.800 an idea of how pervasive even that idea of like 0:15:46.840 --> 0:15:49.960 where Indo European languages came from, Like when I still 0:15:50.000 --> 0:15:51.920 went to college, I took a Religions of South Asia 0:15:51.960 --> 0:15:55.000 course and we had to spend like multiple days where 0:15:55.000 --> 0:15:58.800 a professor went through these myths about like what was 0:15:59.120 --> 0:16:04.400 the area invasion? Which like was there are arian people 0:16:04.440 --> 0:16:08.800 that that is a thing historically, Yes they're not white people, 0:16:09.280 --> 0:16:11.320 but like going through a new definition of white people. 0:16:11.400 --> 0:16:15.640 Sure it's based on language. They think of arianism as 0:16:15.640 --> 0:16:20.720 like referring to a linguistic pattern. Yeah, but like in 0:16:20.760 --> 0:16:23.560 a university course, we still had to go through and 0:16:23.600 --> 0:16:27.440 like debunk these myths because they've gotten so pervasive within 0:16:27.560 --> 0:16:30.200 the culture. Yeah. And another thing I want to say 0:16:30.480 --> 0:16:37.840 is that kind of these more entry level conspiracy ideas, 0:16:37.880 --> 0:16:41.520 it is hard to over emphasize how small the spaces 0:16:41.600 --> 0:16:44.800 between the entry level stuff and the much harder stuff. 0:16:44.840 --> 0:16:48.280 It can happen extremely, extremely, you know, I'll give I'll 0:16:48.280 --> 0:16:50.480 give an example. I went to you I was reporting 0:16:50.520 --> 0:16:54.880 on an anti vax protest and they went straight into 0:16:54.960 --> 0:16:59.560 talking about New World Order and Project Locks, Lockstep and 0:16:59.560 --> 0:17:01.600 and the raw Childs and the Builderers and like the 0:17:01.640 --> 0:17:04.600 Sabbatines and David Ice ship just me and this is 0:17:04.680 --> 0:17:06.359 this was the middle of the day and like a 0:17:06.359 --> 0:17:09.080 metropolitan area with a bunch of boomers and trump paths 0:17:09.600 --> 0:17:13.560 who are getting this like hardcore ship pumped at them 0:17:13.840 --> 0:17:16.919 or you uh sell that a lot. With the Nashville bombing, 0:17:16.960 --> 0:17:19.040 to like immediately it was like, oh, it was actually 0:17:19.040 --> 0:17:23.719 an attack on dominion. And also it was orchestrated by 0:17:23.760 --> 0:17:26.639 the roths Childs to destroy evidence of voter for I 0:17:26.680 --> 0:17:29.080 forgot that. Yeah, And then also there was a whole like, 0:17:29.119 --> 0:17:30.480 there was a bunch of stuff that came up. There 0:17:30.560 --> 0:17:32.720 is a big conspiracy that it was actually a missile strike. 0:17:32.760 --> 0:17:34.480 I had to talk of my grandpa down from that. 0:17:37.000 --> 0:17:39.120 There was a video that circulated for a while about 0:17:39.160 --> 0:17:42.480 then I had to get into a conversation with my grandpa, 0:17:42.560 --> 0:17:44.919 but at the time was super isolated because of COVID 0:17:45.160 --> 0:17:49.080 and that's a whole yeah, And I had to like 0:17:49.119 --> 0:17:51.760 talk him down and show him like, no, here's uh, 0:17:51.840 --> 0:17:53.919 here's a video from somebody I knew who was like 0:17:53.960 --> 0:17:56.600 somewhat in the area and saw the explosion and like, 0:17:56.680 --> 0:18:00.880 and there was not a missile anywhere the day. One 0:18:00.880 --> 0:18:03.760 of the data studies that I've done is UM and 0:18:03.800 --> 0:18:07.680 worked on is using big pool and small pool discord 0:18:07.720 --> 0:18:12.159 servers of far right extremists UM, far right militia groups 0:18:12.240 --> 0:18:17.440 and UM very very like accelerationist skull mass type networks 0:18:17.880 --> 0:18:20.840 UM and looking at the big pools and small pools 0:18:20.960 --> 0:18:26.280 and seeing the app mentions between them, and there was 0:18:26.440 --> 0:18:30.200 not one person who was more than three notes away 0:18:30.400 --> 0:18:34.480 from anybody else. So it's very it can't be overstated 0:18:34.560 --> 0:18:38.960 how close people are from entry to very very very 0:18:38.960 --> 0:18:47.000 extreme h types of goals and ideology, explicit ideologies that 0:18:47.000 --> 0:18:50.200 explicitly pushed violence. And you know, another point I want 0:18:50.200 --> 0:18:53.560 to bring up is um like, yeah, there's been much 0:18:53.600 --> 0:18:55.720 said about Queen On isn't going away. It's just not 0:18:55.760 --> 0:18:59.800 called quan On anymore. Um with with these anti vax mobilization, 0:19:01.560 --> 0:19:04.280 those mobilizations and groups aren't going away. They're just going 0:19:04.320 --> 0:19:07.600 to continue to shift in evolve their focus and the network, 0:19:09.359 --> 0:19:12.760 and they're planning for it like they've they've they've they've 0:19:12.800 --> 0:19:16.920 designed it that way. So I sometimes I find the 0:19:17.000 --> 0:19:19.800 normal stuff first, sometimes I find the crazy stuff first. 0:19:20.320 --> 0:19:23.440 But I mean, not even that long ago. I came 0:19:23.440 --> 0:19:26.639 across a particular social media profile that was explicitly calling 0:19:26.680 --> 0:19:28.520 for acts of terror and attempting to organize acts of 0:19:28.600 --> 0:19:30.399 terror and displaying acts of terror, which is like an 0:19:30.400 --> 0:19:33.560 immediate problem that needs to be dealt with. However, they 0:19:33.600 --> 0:19:37.439 had multiple alternate accounts that you follow that path, and 0:19:37.480 --> 0:19:40.760 on their other accounts they're sharing like Tucker Carlson, stuff 0:19:41.160 --> 0:19:44.000 like things that your grandparents are going to watch right like, 0:19:44.200 --> 0:19:46.840 and that is done on purpose to try to like 0:19:47.040 --> 0:19:52.400 siphon people out of um more quote unquote mainstream versions 0:19:52.480 --> 0:19:56.720 of like conspiratorial thinking directly into like you should start 0:19:56.760 --> 0:19:59.919 exploding things, and even even more even more, let's sa 0:20:00.080 --> 0:20:04.760 left of center conspiracy thinking ties into this, and it's not, 0:20:05.000 --> 0:20:08.119 you know, conspiracy theories are not solely a thing of 0:20:08.160 --> 0:20:12.320 the right, which which passed me off to no end. No, 0:20:12.480 --> 0:20:14.480 I just want to back you up on that, Like 0:20:14.520 --> 0:20:17.080 I think there's this maybe this like implicit idea that 0:20:17.119 --> 0:20:20.360 the left is immune to conspiracy theories when it very 0:20:20.480 --> 0:20:28.840 much is. Um. Yeah, I just wanted to emphasize that point. Yeah, 0:20:28.960 --> 0:20:31.719 that idea though, of like never being that far from 0:20:31.760 --> 0:20:36.760 the serious stuff is something that's really really observable, even 0:20:36.800 --> 0:20:39.879 beyond like a data level. I I used to like 0:20:40.000 --> 0:20:43.320 consult with local newsrooms on how to report on things, 0:20:43.760 --> 0:20:45.159 and one of the big points I always tried to 0:20:45.200 --> 0:20:48.679 drill in was like, if you fuck this up and 0:20:48.760 --> 0:20:52.119 you frame this the wrong way, it will have consequences. 0:20:52.560 --> 0:20:54.399 And if this is stepping in it too much, we 0:20:54.400 --> 0:21:01.639 can come literally but like the um Dylan Roof. Dylan 0:21:01.720 --> 0:21:06.360 Roof started his journey to radicalization by reading about Trayvon 0:21:06.440 --> 0:21:13.000 Martin in local news websites and local newspapers and then 0:21:13.040 --> 0:21:17.760 googling black on White crime and his first result up 0:21:19.800 --> 0:21:22.560 by the same exact thing exactly, and like it does 0:21:22.640 --> 0:21:26.240 not It did not take long for him to go 0:21:26.400 --> 0:21:29.679 from I am reading local news articles that are framed 0:21:29.760 --> 0:21:35.719 this specific way to I am killing people. That's not normal, 0:21:35.920 --> 0:21:37.600 of course, like a lot of people are not going 0:21:37.640 --> 0:21:40.240 to be reading local news and then suddenly start to 0:21:40.240 --> 0:21:43.160 think this way, but like there is a concerted effort 0:21:43.560 --> 0:21:49.920 by some very specific people who would like to make 0:21:50.000 --> 0:21:56.560 that pathway easier. It's well, it's interesting because we don't 0:21:57.000 --> 0:21:59.359 we can't like define it really as terrorism. What are 0:21:59.359 --> 0:22:02.560 they doing the like just they're just saying things, They're 0:22:02.560 --> 0:22:05.600 just encouraging people to do things, and like they're not 0:22:06.760 --> 0:22:09.440 like they're not doing anything wrong. We can't really call 0:22:09.480 --> 0:22:12.640 it terrorism. The most dangerous people in this game are 0:22:12.720 --> 0:22:16.480 usually not the ones doing the shooting, people behind the 0:22:16.520 --> 0:22:18.480 scenes trying to people to go on these paths in 0:22:18.520 --> 0:22:20.720 the first looking for people who are willing and then 0:22:20.760 --> 0:22:24.080 so they see somebody reading local news maybe and they 0:22:24.400 --> 0:22:26.560 want to make that pathway easier for to go from 0:22:26.640 --> 0:22:29.560 local news and Dylan roof like because that's not a 0:22:29.600 --> 0:22:34.199 normal jump, but they really want to find people who 0:22:34.280 --> 0:22:36.640 are looking at local news like that and then say 0:22:36.640 --> 0:22:38.680 to them like, well, okay, you look at this, now 0:22:38.760 --> 0:22:40.880 look at that trying to try us back to climate change. 0:22:40.880 --> 0:22:43.400 How do you see do you see a similar pathway 0:22:43.440 --> 0:22:46.120 instead of instead of someone googling no black white crime, 0:22:46.200 --> 0:22:50.280 like googling stuff about collapse and and and like modern modernization. 0:22:51.200 --> 0:22:54.119 Eric Striker, I don't know. Eric Striker has been on 0:22:54.280 --> 0:22:56.360 about this, and I think that he's a I mean 0:22:58.560 --> 0:23:01.920 relatively like middle point that people get to like fairly 0:23:02.000 --> 0:23:07.320