Speaker 1: This is the game for the thirty five six seconds left.
Speaker 1: Browns up five to theen this and beat the Steelers.
Speaker 1: Russell Wilson to throw back to throw has time. Here's
Speaker 1: the Thros ball up into the air towards the end zone.
Speaker 1: Knock it down, chuck ball, complate broke plea.
Speaker 2: And they're making snow Angels. Twenty four nineteen.
Speaker 3: Oh what a.
Speaker 2: Call by our friend Andrew Ceciliano on w k r K.
Speaker 2: What a game. I usually wait till the end of
Speaker 2: the show to say this, but when it's snowing and
Speaker 2: the Browns are winning an AFC North game at the
Speaker 2: very end with help from Jamis Winsday, you know football
Speaker 2: is back. I am so fired up tonight to be
Speaker 2: joined by my friend bo Wolf of p h L
Speaker 2: Y and he thought I was assigning him to a stinker.
Speaker 2: And that's why you got to watch bow Wolf. You
Speaker 2: never know when you're gonna get one of the most
Speaker 2: memorable games of the season. I don't think it's hyperbole
Speaker 2: to say this upset by the Browns in the snow
Speaker 2: globe was one of those games.
Speaker 4: And to be here with you for what might be
Speaker 4: the definitive Jameis Winston game. I mean, what a treat
Speaker 4: for me.
Speaker 2: Yes, that is true, Jamis Winston. True believers, supporters, this
Speaker 2: is your night, This is for you. Our guy got
Speaker 2: it toute. I think the definitive game is definitely the
Speaker 2: game where he threw his thirtieth touchdown and his thirtieth
Speaker 2: interception in the final week because everyone is just rooting
Speaker 2: for it, rooting for it, and then it happened. But yes,
Speaker 2: this is one of the best moments. I'd have to
Speaker 2: go back. He did have bet more good moments for
Speaker 2: Tampa than people remember, but what a moment for him.
Speaker 2: I thought he had his moment early in the fourth
Speaker 2: quarter when they took the lead to go up eighteen
Speaker 2: to six. After some total heroics, they blow the lead,
Speaker 2: giving up two touchdowns, including a sequence where it was
Speaker 2: a strip sack of Jamis Winston. That the Steelers then
Speaker 2: took a lead nineteen to eighteen. Steelers had the ball
Speaker 2: at one point with the lead, and you didn't think
Speaker 2: it was gonna happen? Didja? When the Browns got the
Speaker 2: ball back with a little over three minutes left, bo
Speaker 2: Wolf and then they go on a touchdown drive that
Speaker 2: I can't imagine many Browns fans expected that considering the
Speaker 2: way this season has gone.
Speaker 4: Or as even as as Kirk Kurbstreet said on the call,
Speaker 4: like maybe they thought they scored too early.
Speaker 5: They're like, oh this is this is too good. That's it.
Speaker 4: But I mean there were there were so many, I know,
Speaker 4: we'll got to all of them. So many Jamis moments
Speaker 4: in this game. I mean you had the like the
Speaker 4: powerful downfield tackle on a fumble, just laying Wood down there.
Speaker 4: You had the touchdown that you talked about, the two
Speaker 4: point conversion where the battery is like dangling in front
Speaker 4: of his helmet. You have the like the drive when
Speaker 4: they're trying to score after he fumbles it. He makes
Speaker 4: that beautiful throw on the run to Jerry Judy and
Speaker 4: then throws the interception, which you're like, okay, that was
Speaker 4: probably at some point, and then he leads the game
Speaker 4: winning touchdown drive it is it was.
Speaker 5: I mean, it is very jamous. It was very cool.
Speaker 4: It's like, if you had asked me before this game
Speaker 4: what was going to happen, I would have probably flippantly said, like, oh,
Speaker 4: the Browns will probably blow it late, the Steelers will
Speaker 4: win a close game. There's gonna be a lot of
Speaker 4: jamous moments, and that's almost what happened. But even if
Speaker 4: that had happened, you would have missed so much of
Speaker 4: the wonder of the game. And we haven't even gotten
Speaker 4: to the snow of it. I know.
Speaker 2: That's why you can't look at the box score, because
Speaker 2: in the end he has one interception, no touchdowns on
Speaker 2: this game two hundred and nineteen yards, which through the
Speaker 2: snow was crazy. And we hadn't mentioned that. The game
Speaker 2: starts with some light precipitation, sometimes nothing, sometimes like a
Speaker 2: little just flakes out there, but the field's clean. It's
Speaker 2: windy for the most a little bit, but it's fine.
Speaker 2: And then by the end of the game, this is
Speaker 2: full you know, Fox Burroughs last game with the tuck
Speaker 2: rule and Adam Vintteri in the snow. It is an
Speaker 2: absolute blizzard out there, and both he and Russell Wilson
Speaker 2: are making really good passes for the most part. I
Speaker 2: guess we should have known. You put late career Russell Wilson,
Speaker 2: really any stage career Russell Wilson against Jamis Winstone. You're right,
Speaker 2: in the primetime game, it's gonna get really stupid. I
Speaker 2: want to start actually with the last drive and yeah,
Speaker 2: we can kind of go backwards from there. But on
Speaker 2: the last drive of the game, Jamis gets it back
Speaker 2: after the Steelers don't do a good job with it.
Speaker 2: They get it with four twenty two left and they
Speaker 2: go three and out. They bring in Justin Fields on
Speaker 2: I think it was second and third down.
Speaker 6: Is that right? Bo?
Speaker 5: I don't know if he was gonna say, I think
Speaker 5: that's right. I think that's okay.
Speaker 2: It was definite a third down where he throws the
Speaker 2: ball down the field one on one coverage, just kind
Speaker 2: of a hope ball to Pickens, and it was part
Speaker 2: of a night where Fields is coming in and out
Speaker 2: of the lineup. It felt like he was on the
Speaker 2: field more than he really was. He only ended up
Speaker 2: throwing one pass and that was it, and he ran
Speaker 2: three times, including a failed fourth down. But the Steelers
Speaker 2: didn't quite know what to do with Russell Wilson because
Speaker 2: he was just up and down and the red zone
Speaker 2: offense has been so bad and they were bad on
Speaker 2: fourth down.
Speaker 4: The Fields thing was interesting because we joked earlier in
Speaker 4: the week that like the Browns defense gave up this
Speaker 4: huge game to Taysom Hill, Like maybe the Steelers are
Speaker 4: going to lean into Justin Fields, and Fields is on
Speaker 4: the field on the first third down of the game,
Speaker 4: and then they get a penalty they take him off.
Speaker 4: So it was as if this was a big plan
Speaker 4: for them coming into the game. I think he only
Speaker 4: played one other snap in the first half, but then
Speaker 4: he was on the field to lead that one touchdown
Speaker 4: drive on the nice you know, the thirty yard keeper.
Speaker 4: He's in for three plays before they bring Russell in,
Speaker 4: but then Wilson comes in and leads the go ahead
Speaker 4: touchdown drive. So it was weird when you knew that
Speaker 4: they needed to get a first down and probably throw there,
Speaker 4: that they let Justin Fields throw that pass.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's going to be a really interesting ten days
Speaker 2: in Pittsburgh, I think talking about this and a really
Speaker 2: interesting rest of the season. One thing that's really stuck
Speaker 2: with me throughout this whole Russell Wilson period of him
Speaker 2: starting is Mike Tomlin saying that I think it was
Speaker 2: a report that he just he wanted to see what
Speaker 2: he had in Russell Wilson, like he he had all
Speaker 2: off season with Russell Wilson, and he wanted to take
Speaker 2: a test drive and see what the difference was between
Speaker 2: the two quarterbacks and what he had, and I expect
Speaker 2: he's gonna stick with Russell Wilson in general. But when
Speaker 2: you don't score a touchdown for almost eight straight quarters,
Speaker 2: which is what happened here. We almost got to one
Speaker 2: hundred and twenty minutes straight without a touchdown, and you
Speaker 2: have a guy who's clearly better in the red zone,
Speaker 2: I think Tomlin is thinking, hmm, maybe maybe I'll use
Speaker 2: fields a little more. Who knows even and this game,
Speaker 2: I don't know if which way it's going to convince him,
Speaker 2: because it was kind of the full Russell Wilson experience,
Speaker 2: where a lot of beautiful passes but a lot of
Speaker 2: mind numbing mental mistakes.
Speaker 4: You do think that like the reason that there is
Speaker 4: never there has never really been like a true sort
Speaker 4: of like quarterback rotation in game is because of the
Speaker 4: egos involved like that that seems like a total recipe
Speaker 4: for disaster within the locker room and with the two
Speaker 4: quarterbacks in question. But I do think that if any
Speaker 4: coach is able to manage those egos well, and I mean,
Speaker 4: we can talk about some of the mistakes that Tomlin
Speaker 4: made in this game managing and they lose this game,
Speaker 4: so there's going to be heat on him. But in
Speaker 4: terms of like managing personalities, that is like that's his superpower,
Speaker 4: right like the you know, everybody's patting him on the
Speaker 4: back rightfully. So I for we're going to Russell Wilson
Speaker 4: mid season in the first place, I feel like if
Speaker 4: any if anybody could do that and sort of mix
Speaker 4: in both guys depending on the situation, it would be Tomlin.
Speaker 2: I do too, And yet coming into this year, I
Speaker 2: would have said Russell Wilson would have been about the
Speaker 2: last quarterback that I think could have handled this. But
Speaker 2: he's been by all accounts, and you can see it.
Speaker 2: I think a very good teammate with Justin Fields has
Speaker 2: handled everything well, handled it well when he was a backup,
Speaker 2: and maybe he's down with it. It's he's at a
Speaker 2: fit portion of his career. And we'll see, because I
Speaker 2: know Drew Brees did not love it when they were
Speaker 2: pulling him out for Taysom Hill. But that's a little
Speaker 2: different situation where one guy is a clearly established future
Speaker 2: Hall of Famer and the others a gadget guy. We'll
Speaker 2: get to that in a second. I want to go
Speaker 2: back to that last drive and all these last drives
Speaker 2: because they were fascinating. On the last drive in the snow,
Speaker 2: fourth and three, Jerry Judy catches an out route, and
Speaker 2: that's kind of what I want to point out about
Speaker 2: Jamis twenty seven passes tonight for two hundred and nineteen yards.
Speaker 2: If you go back and watch that Saints game a
Speaker 2: week ago, I even dare anyone who doesn't have a
Speaker 2: family and frankly doesn't like themselves to go back and
Speaker 2: watch that Chargers game where everyone said Jamis stunk because
Speaker 2: he had a bunch of interceptions. He still had like
Speaker 2: like seven or eight gorgeous throws. He's been spinning the
Speaker 2: ball very well and I think fits and Kevin Stefanski's offense. Obviously,
Speaker 2: that first game he had back was fantastic, and I
Speaker 2: think you saw it tonight, like he was pushing the
Speaker 2: ball down the field in the snow. There were a
Speaker 2: lot of high level throws. Yeah, he had the interception.
Speaker 2: I mean that the fumble was not on him, but
Speaker 2: it does say a lot fourth down in a big spot,
Speaker 2: and really throughout the entire second half, they were trusting Jamis.
Speaker 2: They kind of thought, I don't know if this is
Speaker 2: gonna work with Nick Chubb and our offensive line on
Speaker 2: the ground. That's not going to work. Like, let's just
Speaker 2: trust Jamis in his arm and have some fun.
Speaker 5: Yeah, I know that.
Speaker 4: The like the book on Ken Dorsey in Cleveland's like
Speaker 4: this guy leans on the pass a little bit too much,
Speaker 4: like he doesn't run it enough. And it was almost
Speaker 4: as if they came out in this game and it
Speaker 4: was like he had been chastised to try to run
Speaker 4: the ball first. And the first two drives are three
Speaker 4: and out like they're trying to go run first and
Speaker 4: it just doesn't work. They look terrible, and so then
Speaker 4: that third drive they finally open it up. You know,
Speaker 4: they get they bring in Michael Dunn for the heavy
Speaker 4: sixth offensive line package. All of a sudden, they go
Speaker 4: down score a touchdown because they're they're throwing the ball
Speaker 4: and they are trusting Jamis. That was a beautiful throw
Speaker 4: to Jerry Judy, But what did you make of the
Speaker 4: sequence right before it? So there's the what could have
Speaker 4: been the intentional grounding, which is also of very Jamis play.
Speaker 4: They called the illegal touching, And then there's the very
Speaker 4: long back and forth with Mike Tomlin about whether they
Speaker 4: wanted to be third and seven or third and eight
Speaker 4: or fourth and two, fourth and three.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I didn't understand that. And that was actually after
Speaker 2: so the Judy fourth down comes first. I mean, this
Speaker 2: game was so insane. It's easy to forget that the
Speaker 2: Browns had the ball in Pittsburgh territory because their punter
Speaker 2: punted at fifteen yards and there was a couple punts
Speaker 2: like that tonight was just ghastly. I think one was
Speaker 2: by the Browns when one was by.
Speaker 4: The Actually there was a great Al Michaels Like what
Speaker 4: is that on the first one in the first quarter.
Speaker 4: I thought, by the way, I thought, this game totally
Speaker 4: rejuvenated Al. I thought Al was yes, like this was like, oh,
Speaker 4: finally a game that I can enjoy.
Speaker 2: I've been very hard on Al. He's still Al Michaels,
Speaker 2: and when he's kind of like this game was how
Speaker 2: when you watch a great Aaron Rodgers throw or Kirk
Speaker 2: Cousin's throw this year, there's still great throws or like
Speaker 2: they have great drives and maybe it's not consistent like
Speaker 2: you want it, but this game was like a gorgeous
Speaker 2: throw by Al Michaels. I'm totally with you he was
Speaker 2: up for it. Kirk was mostly up for it. Kirk
Speaker 2: was Kirk. But yeah, they get the ball at the
Speaker 2: forty five, they get it to the fourth and six,
Speaker 2: they get Judy and I was really impressed by that
Speaker 2: through I wanted to point it out because Nate Herbert,
Speaker 2: who's had a great game, hits Winston as he's throwing out,
Speaker 2: so game's basically over if Winston doesn't deliver from the podka.
Speaker 2: That's why he got drafted first overall was because, you know,
Speaker 2: people that weren't that smart were like, there's a little
Speaker 2: Peyton Manning in him. He reads the field so well
Speaker 2: and he's just so good from the pocket. Like that
Speaker 2: was the type of play people got excited about as
Speaker 2: a prospect. That decision that Tomlin made and then unmade,
Speaker 2: and then made and then unmade. It was on a
Speaker 2: third and two. I'm not going to kill him either way.
Speaker 2: The only thing that was confusing to me is like,
Speaker 2: why is he allowed to change his mind five times?
Speaker 2: And why did the game stop for five minutes? He
Speaker 2: was basically choosing between a third and two, I mean
Speaker 2: a fourth and two or a third and seven with
Speaker 2: the game on the line, so you could have made
Speaker 2: one play to end the game on fourth and two,
Speaker 2: or do you back them up and make the third
Speaker 2: and seven. I probably would have leaned forth in two,
Speaker 2: but I actually don't I don't have a hot take
Speaker 2: on that. I just don't understand. Why is why are
Speaker 2: they allowed to change their mind and go back and forth.
Speaker 4: It looked to me like he declined it, and then
Speaker 4: when the Browns sent their offense on the field like
Speaker 4: they were going to go for it, then he decided
Speaker 4: to accept it. Like he didn't want them, he wanted
Speaker 4: he wanted them to kick a field goal. He didn't
Speaker 4: think they could make the field goal. But once they
Speaker 4: said they were going for it, and it's like, okay, no, no, no,
Speaker 4: then I actually want to accept it. But that doesn't
Speaker 4: seem fair.
Speaker 2: That doesn't seem fair at all. And I actually think
Speaker 2: you're right, you you you got smarted me and maybe
Speaker 2: the rest of the audience. This is why we got
Speaker 2: bo Wolf. But Wolf. By the way, check out his
Speaker 2: PHO Y Eagles podcast with the Man Zach Berman, the
Speaker 2: best comedy duo with Zak as the straight man that
Speaker 2: is Zach mainly in an NFL podcast. So that decision
Speaker 2: wasn't crazy to me. But then Jamis hits an absolutely
Speaker 2: gorgeous throw there to Judy again again while he's getting
Speaker 2: hit by Ogan Jobi. There's a penalty on the Steelers
Speaker 2: after the play for delaying the game. Roger Sherman on
Speaker 2: Twitter believes that was intentional to put them inside the
Speaker 2: ten and try to shorten the game. And I think
Speaker 2: they let them. I think they let Nick Chubb score.
Speaker 2: I went back and watched those plays, and I know
Speaker 2: Nick Chubb got tackled, but I don't think they were
Speaker 2: really trying to tackle him. On the first play, they
Speaker 2: were just trying to knock the ball out, and then
Speaker 2: on the second play, I think they let him in
Speaker 2: to try to get the ball back. Do you think
Speaker 2: it's better to be down five in that scenario and
Speaker 2: try to score in the snow or see if you
Speaker 2: can get a block on the field goal or a
Speaker 2: FuMB bok. I actually think I might take my chances
Speaker 2: and just try to stop.
Speaker 4: Him, well, knowing it's the Browns and anything could happen,
Speaker 4: I might be in that way. I don't I don't
Speaker 4: know if I buy that they did that penalty from
Speaker 4: the fourteen on purpose, because it wasn't. It was a
Speaker 4: free snap. It's not like the coaches were calling it in.
Speaker 4: That's usually when you would see that happen. It would
Speaker 4: have taken unbelievable awareness for a rookie to do that,
Speaker 4: knowing that the ball was down on the fourteen right
Speaker 4: after it happened. I'm not sure. I'm not sure I'm
Speaker 4: willing to go there, but I do think I'm with you.
Speaker 4: Especially on the touchdown run. It seemed like they were
Speaker 4: they were like, okay, kid.
Speaker 2: It, yes, let's actually listen to that touchdown run. What
Speaker 2: a moment Nick Chubb. I know he hasn't been running
Speaker 2: great this year, but for him to be out there
Speaker 2: in the snow against the team who he was facing
Speaker 2: when he suffered that career changing injury and to have
Speaker 2: the game winning touchdown is awesome. Let's listen to Andrew.
Speaker 1: Shotgun from the two chump to back jamis the staff
Speaker 1: hit the chump, chump running chump touchdown.
Speaker 2: Nick Chubb did it.
Speaker 1: He stayed on his stat the Brown ticul the lya
Speaker 1: fifty seven seconds to go, have the Brown lead the
Speaker 1: Steelers twenty four to nineteen.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's that's Andrew getting it done. I love it,
Speaker 2: and we'll actually have Andrew on this TNF recap program
Speaker 2: the next time the Browns are in prime time. Because
Speaker 2: the Browns are always in prime time. They're just living
Speaker 2: in primetime the next four weeks. Bo and I was
Speaker 2: complaining about it on our very last show, and now
Speaker 2: I embrace it. Let's just get more Jamis. It's gonna
Speaker 2: be fun.
Speaker 5: Absolutely.
Speaker 4: I was thinking about, you know, just the Browns fans
Speaker 4: and even you know, given the connection, like like the
Speaker 4: Browns family members, Like you're going to this game. This
Speaker 4: is a hopeless season. They're two and eight. You're sitting
Speaker 4: in this terrible weather and like what are we doing here?
Speaker 4: Why is this the way that I'm spending my life?
Speaker 4: And then you get this unbelievable game and then it
Speaker 4: looks like they've blown it and you're like, oh my god, likeugh,
Speaker 4: but then like they come back, they win this game,
Speaker 4: and just the beauty of that as a two and
Speaker 4: eight fan, like this is what it's all about. They
Speaker 4: got the one thing, the one positive memory they will
Speaker 4: probably have of this season.
Speaker 2: I think they are the best. I think they are
Speaker 2: the best fans. It's hard to just to just pick one.
Speaker 2: I think the Bills are in the mix, and I
Speaker 2: think the Lions are in the mix. I kind of
Speaker 2: lean on the old school teams who have been through
Speaker 2: a lot of heartache but haven't lost any of the
Speaker 2: passion and I and I think the Browns are the
Speaker 2: tops of those because it's ridiculous that that place was
Speaker 2: packed out. And I know there were some Steelers fans there,
Speaker 2: but it was mostly Browns and they were going crazy
Speaker 2: having the time of their lives. One of those fans
Speaker 2: there bo was our very own Nick Shook. We actually
Speaker 2: have a picture if you're watching on YouTube of that
Speaker 2: Nick took during the game. He has great seats right
Speaker 2: near the field, I think he I mean, and it's
Speaker 2: just a beautiful shot with the snow coming down. And
Speaker 2: that's what you know, That's what being a sports fan
Speaker 2: is all about. Who cares that the season was so bad?
Speaker 2: Tonight was magical regardless. Let's let's go back and talk
Speaker 2: about that drive where Jameis Winston finished it off with
Speaker 2: with the crazy play. Let's let's actually listen to Andrews
Speaker 2: call that We're just good. We're just gonna lean on Andrews'
Speaker 2: eleono this show thrashing the game to the right.
Speaker 1: Now Ford moshoes to the left, Winchton to throw fourth out,
Speaker 1: Winchin under pressure, trembling puck.
Speaker 2: Pink, He's gonna run. He jumps, touchdown.
Speaker 1: Jameis Witchton hot fourth.
Speaker 5: Downe bucks sixteen to six.
Speaker 1: They're gonna go for two in this snow here Jamus
Speaker 1: shotgun two point conversion, looking left, throwing Hi Nu Joku
Speaker 1: dot you come down with it, Yes, sir, he didn't.
Speaker 2: Drop this one.
Speaker 1: David Nijoku two point conversion. Brown's lead by twelve, eighteen
Speaker 1: to six.
Speaker 2: What a sequence there, So it's to set it up.
Speaker 2: Twelve minutes left in the game. They're up ten to six.
Speaker 2: Going into that, Nadjoku drops a great play call, wide
Speaker 2: open touchdown on third down, and he decides to go
Speaker 2: for it instead of going for the field goal. There,
Speaker 2: Kevin Stefanski's showing some stones, sewing some faith, and that
Speaker 2: play looked like it had nothing going on. And uh
Speaker 2: with Ryan Fitzpatrick, you know in the stadium for Amazon,
Speaker 2: that was a very Ryan Fitzpatrick jumping at the goal
Speaker 2: line helicopter touchdown, just like absolutely insane, going over the
Speaker 2: top to get the touchdown, and then in Djoku making
Speaker 2: a crazy catch that was magical and like the game
Speaker 2: was just warming up at.
Speaker 4: That point and just to guess up, Ceciliana, what a
Speaker 4: great call there to get the excitement while also slipping
Speaker 4: in the subtle dig and just for the drop like
Speaker 4: that's that's just high level stuff.
Speaker 2: It really was, and that's that's not Jamis's forte creating
Speaker 2: when things aren't going well necessary.
Speaker 4: You see him sort of like take a pause at
Speaker 4: the top of his drop there, he like he takes
Speaker 4: a little bit of a half look like, am.
Speaker 5: I about to get sacked?
Speaker 4: Oh, I guess I can sort of move and then
Speaker 4: and then he gets out of the pocket and he
Speaker 4: sees that he has that little alley.
Speaker 5: It's it was very fun.
Speaker 4: And that's what knocked out the little the little battery,
Speaker 4: which was very cool.
Speaker 2: Yes, on the two point conversion, they show after the
Speaker 2: play that the battery on his helmet kind of got
Speaker 2: knocked out while he got hit and then it's just
Speaker 2: it's just dangling in front of his eyes like a
Speaker 2: clock while he's making that play. It was fantastic. That's
Speaker 2: actually a good time to mention, like where's TJ Watt
Speaker 2: on any of these plays? You totally shut down Lamar Jackson.
Speaker 2: You don't let him out of the pocket. I went
Speaker 2: and looked twenty seven pass rushes tonight. One pressure was
Speaker 2: not a quick pressure. And all night they're like, oh,
Speaker 2: they're double teaming them like crazy, They're chipping them like crazy.
Speaker 2: I mean, don't I can't vouch for the next gen
Speaker 2: stats data being in one hundred percent accurate. They said
Speaker 2: he was double team three times. So Miles Garrett apparently
Speaker 2: went into this game annoyed about the TJ. Watt Miles
Speaker 2: Garrett comparisons. Miles Garrett had eight pressures, three sacks. Wat Right, TJ. Watt,
Speaker 2: Who's been a little quiet this year except for game
Speaker 2: changing plays, which is a big except for but like
Speaker 2: his pressure numbers haven't nearly been there. Quiet night, bad
Speaker 2: night for his candidacy a defensive player of the year,
Speaker 2: Bad night for Tomlin's coach of the year candidacy.
Speaker 5: That's true, and they did.
Speaker 4: On the third sack for Garrett, one of his teammates
Speaker 4: came in and did put the crown on his head.
Speaker 4: So I think, you know, means it's very fair to
Speaker 4: assume that there is uh like that that is a
Speaker 4: personal rivalry, that that that the teammates take on between
Speaker 4: those two guys, who's better. I'm giving you, I'm giving
Speaker 4: you a different thing for the dangle on Jameis Winston's Yes,
Speaker 4: I'm going anglerfish. This is this is a remnant of
Speaker 4: my you know, my son's former interest in in ocean animals.
Speaker 5: I'm going anglerfish there.
Speaker 2: I love that this is Bo is like Bo's a host.
Speaker 2: Actually doing the show with you both is making me
Speaker 2: feel my my shortcomings as a host because you would
Speaker 2: be peppering your people with questions. I just like say
Speaker 2: a strong, like an opinion, and then I just stopped
Speaker 2: talking and just wait for the.
Speaker 5: Next But I think it's fun. That's that's part of
Speaker 5: the conversation.
Speaker 2: It is fun, Like maybe we should have seen this
Speaker 2: game coming. Tomlin, there's this there was this crazy stat
Speaker 2: floating around that he hasn't won on the road on
Speaker 2: Thursday nights. Do you make anything of that? In terms
Speaker 2: of AFC North Thursday Night football, he was winless. I
Speaker 2: think he was zero to five or something like that.
Speaker 2: AFC North teams at home on Thursday Night Football are
Speaker 2: seventeen and two. So for whatever reason, it's very hard
Speaker 2: for this division. It's it's not a long trip, but
Speaker 2: there's something to it.
Speaker 4: I do think that there is something to and this
Speaker 4: Steelers team is different because they have won some games
Speaker 4: like handily right that they have not just been all
Speaker 4: one score games. But the notion that this is just
Speaker 4: a team that knows how to win these these tight
Speaker 4: games and that's their superpower, Like, I think it lays
Speaker 4: that to waste a little bit, that this team is
Speaker 4: better than that, they're not just reliant on winning one
Speaker 4: score games.
Speaker 5: But it's also tough.
Speaker 4: It's a tough loss for them in the sense that
Speaker 4: like this was the kind of game they like to play.
Speaker 4: It was sort of played on their terms, and they
Speaker 4: won the turnover battle three to one, and they still
Speaker 4: lost the game. Before before we went on, I was
Speaker 4: I was looking it up. In Tomlin's career, this is
Speaker 4: the first time in eighteen seasons in which he has
Speaker 4: lost two games in the season when the team won
Speaker 4: the turnover battle by by at least two.
Speaker 2: Every Tomlin stat is crazy though, too, because they've also
Speaker 2: won two games this year where they haven't scored a
Speaker 2: touchdown and they're actually the first team I was surprised
Speaker 2: by this. They're the first team to do that since
Speaker 2: the two bucks. It's hard to win games without scoring
Speaker 2: a touchdown, so it's a win. Two and one season
Speaker 2: is very hard. And there was a segment of this
Speaker 2: game where I thought they at least had a chance
Speaker 2: because they were down ten to six going into the
Speaker 2: fourth quarter they still hadn't scored a touchdown. I'm like,
Speaker 2: they're gonna do it again. They're gonna bang two more
Speaker 2: field goals in this game and wind up winning, and
Speaker 2: it didn't happen. Defense ultimately wasn't good enough, even though
Speaker 2: in the fourth quarter they they did force two turnovers.
Speaker 2: Or in the second half, they get the force fumble
Speaker 2: on Jamis and they get the interception on Jamis, but
Speaker 2: they give up the two drives. Okay, I thought after
Speaker 2: that Jamis sequence, like this is too perfect. Just end
Speaker 2: the game right now with the dangling battery, cause it's
Speaker 2: it's bound to go bad. And it did. They have
Speaker 2: that quick drive where Fields had the run. Like you mentioned,
Speaker 2: Fields ends up three for twenty six, but that was
Speaker 2: a thirty yard run. He had the fourth down fail
Speaker 2: earlier in the game, and that was a big difference
Speaker 2: in the game. The Browns went four for four on
Speaker 2: fourth down and the Steelers went one for three.
Speaker 4: Yes, two yeah, and they also missed a field goal,
Speaker 4: so that was they were batting short yardage in this game.
Speaker 2: That mattered for sure, right, and Russell Wilson made some
Speaker 2: mental mistakes, Like the first half was very Russell Wilson.
Speaker 2: We'll get into this retreated.
Speaker 5: It was very Russell go ahead.
Speaker 2: Right, and in the fourth quarter, so they get that
Speaker 2: drive where Jalen Warren gets the touchdown, they get the
Speaker 2: strip sack herbig has been awesome by the way, six pressures.
Speaker 2: He's great. And then immediately Russell Wilson gets back on
Speaker 2: the field and on the third play of that drive,
Speaker 2: you know they're in Browns territory. He comes up with
Speaker 2: a great throw to take the lead.
Speaker 5: Fall to twenty three yard line.
Speaker 1: Wilson gets the snap, Browns bringing five men, throws over
Speaker 1: the middle of the field, Calvin Austin touchdown, Pittsburgh Steelerskelvin Austin,
Speaker 1: you're a giant.
Speaker 2: Man, and what a giant rus Yes, please, well, I.
Speaker 4: Was struck by in the first half. All of all
Speaker 4: of Russell's big plays were coming on third and long
Speaker 4: and having covered Jim Schwartz in Philadelphia, you know I'm
Speaker 4: accustomed to, like the sticks defense that he used to do,
Speaker 4: which was like, we might get beat in front of us,
Speaker 4: but we're not going to get beat deep. And so
Speaker 4: as this game goes on, it played out. Russell Wilson
Speaker 4: in this game had five completions of twenty yards or
Speaker 4: more on third and long, so we're defining that third
Speaker 4: and six. That is the most of any quarterback in
Speaker 4: a game this season. And number two is Justin Herbert,
Speaker 4: who had four also against this Browns defense.
Speaker 2: Wow, that at shocking. And he does do that sticks
Speaker 2: thing still sometimes, but you're right, it must not be
Speaker 2: very often. I thought the whole.
Speaker 5: Cauld be getting beat deep in that situation.
Speaker 2: No, you're right, and I thought, like the whole key
Speaker 2: against russ just play deep safeties, like stay on the outside,
Speaker 2: stay in the corner, take away the middle. But that
Speaker 2: was a beautiful throat in the middle of the field.
Speaker 2: He had another chance to get one to Pickens earlier
Speaker 2: and they weren't on the same page. But actually the
Speaker 2: numbers according to next Gen he went ten for fourteen
Speaker 2: against split safety coverage for one hundred and sixty five
Speaker 2: yards and a touchdown. I think that was probably the
Speaker 2: touchdown there. And so Russell Wilson is so hard to
Speaker 2: figure because you look at the numbers.
Speaker 5: In some of those plants.
Speaker 4: He throws those slants so beautifully, like he stuck a
Speaker 4: couple in in really tight windows in this game. When
Speaker 4: he was throwing the ball for the most part, it
Speaker 4: looked good. But yes, it's the decision making that for
Speaker 4: a guy who is as experienced as he is, really
Speaker 4: makes you scratch your head.
Speaker 2: Right, it's a better version of what he was last
Speaker 2: year in Denver, where if you just looked at the stats,
Speaker 2: it was one thing, but if you watch the games
Speaker 2: and watch Sean Payton like losing his mind, it was another.
Speaker 2: Like Russell finishes twenty one for twenty eight for two
Speaker 2: hundred and seventy yards and a touchdo, which is great.
Speaker 2: In the first half he was he hit his first
Speaker 2: eleven passes for one hundred and forty seven yards and
Speaker 2: so that seems like you're having an awesome half. But
Speaker 2: he took three sacks. One killed the drive to make
Speaker 2: Boswell have to go for a fifty seven yarder, which
Speaker 2: was which rules another one. I was listening to the
Speaker 2: radio on the way back then I try to catch
Speaker 2: up on YouTube, and Mike Golick Senior did a nice
Speaker 2: job of pointing out on the third down on another
Speaker 2: sack where they did hit the field goal, he missed
Speaker 2: Calvin Austin wide open in the middle of the field.
Speaker 2: On the broadcast, I think, like, that's that's Wilson's mo
Speaker 2: o and Seattle. That's what drove everyone crazy, everything crazy.
Speaker 2: He never sees the middle of the field. And I
Speaker 2: went back and looked just to confirm it, and it
Speaker 2: was that. But he also had dimes tonight, like he
Speaker 2: threw the ball well down the field to pickens a
Speaker 2: couple times. He had a great throw on fourth and
Speaker 2: one the fourth down that they did pick up. Like
Speaker 2: he does enough good things that you forgive the sacks
Speaker 2: that he takes. He's just like a little maddening and
Speaker 2: never has really learned to be a game manager like
Speaker 2: that is like to manage different situations is not really
Speaker 2: his thing.
Speaker 4: And as we talked about it was it's so interesting
Speaker 4: that after he throws that beautiful touchdown pass to Calvin
Speaker 4: Austin to give them the lead the next drive, when
Speaker 4: they have a chance to salt away the game, that's
Speaker 4: when they pull him for Justin fields. It's so like
Speaker 4: I I'd love to love to get the truth here
Speaker 4: and with with Mike Tomlin about that.
Speaker 2: It is fascinating. A few more little things before we go.
Speaker 2: The play that might have really turned the game around
Speaker 2: was the penalty on Grant Delpit after he did one
Speaker 2: of my favorite unnecessary roughness or whatever that call was. Yeah,
Speaker 2: he instead of snatching someone's chain bow, he snatched the
Speaker 2: mouthpiece out. Is that new? I don't know if I've
Speaker 2: ever seen this mouthpiece snatch.
Speaker 5: And it's it's a little bit disturbing how easily it
Speaker 5: comes out.
Speaker 2: It really is. That really did change the game because
Speaker 2: he went from.
Speaker 4: Second and goal at the eight to first and goal
Speaker 4: at the three or something like that.
Speaker 2: Right, yeah, at least at the eight, and that was
Speaker 2: after a faate. Like I just felt like they're not
Speaker 2: going to score once they get to the ten. If
Speaker 2: you've watched the Steelers this year, they never score once
Speaker 2: a get inside of ten. They can only score from
Speaker 2: the twenty out. I think they're thirtieth or thirty first
Speaker 2: in red zone offense. I think their last actually since
Speaker 2: Russell Wilson took over, and they just can never figure
Speaker 2: things out. Arthur Smith just it's not happening for them
Speaker 2: in the red zone and they went backwards on a
Speaker 2: Quarterrell Patterson run there, and I'm thinking, they're never going
Speaker 2: to get this done. And then George Pickens, who is
Speaker 2: maybe the number one instigator in the NFL now he
Speaker 2: makes everyone mad and he always gets in these wrestling matches.
Speaker 2: I love him. He is amazing.
Speaker 5: Did we see what happened at the end of the game.
Speaker 5: No they didn't.
Speaker 2: Oh no, yeah, and he almost was like he.
Speaker 4: Took he gone back with the fans that after the
Speaker 4: Hail Mary at the end of the game. By the way,
Speaker 4: we didn't talk about Russell Wilson just getting absolutely lit
Speaker 4: up on that hail.
Speaker 5: Mary by Jordan Hicks.
Speaker 4: I mean, he gets he just gets Planted's tough to watch.
Speaker 2: It was. He took a lot of tough hits. I mean,
Speaker 2: Russell Wilson is one of the toughest quarterbacks I've ever
Speaker 2: seen in my life. I always am amaze how he
Speaker 2: takes brutal hits and he never seems worse for wear.
Speaker 2: He never does the thing where like Jamis when he
Speaker 2: hit that Judy throw, he barely got touched, but he
Speaker 2: started crawling afterwards, and I'm like, oh, no, it's James hurt.
Speaker 2: But it's like, no, Javis is just having some fun
Speaker 2: trying to get a penalty. Like Russell Wilson's the opposite.
Speaker 2: He'll get blasted and he never shows it, Like that
Speaker 2: man is thick. That man, he's a tough man. Not
Speaker 2: that I need to tell him that.
Speaker 5: Yeah, that's fair. Do you think what do you think
Speaker 5: moving forward?
Speaker 4: Do you think they're gonna do a little like dance
Speaker 4: with the two of them.
Speaker 2: I think it'll be more of this. I think it'll
Speaker 2: be mostly Russell Wilson, but I think they will use
Speaker 2: justin fields when they think appropriate, in the red zone
Speaker 2: or in short yards. The problem was it didn't really
Speaker 2: work tonight. The first play call that Fields was going
Speaker 2: to run, they had a penalty because the tight end moved.
Speaker 2: And then the second one had no chance. It wasn't
Speaker 2: Fields's fault, but it had no chance.
Speaker 5: Yeah.
Speaker 4: Now on the other side, what do we think of
Speaker 4: the Kevin Stefanski of it all? Like all the talk
Speaker 4: coming in is like all the six of the last
Speaker 4: seven Browns head coaches have been fired after losses to
Speaker 4: the Steelers. Now they're three and eight, how do you
Speaker 4: feel about the Stefanski future.
Speaker 2: I love that year taking over here. You actually sent
Speaker 2: me some notes before the Cases was a game that
Speaker 2: you might want to talk. One of them was Stefanski trade.
Speaker 2: Tell me more about that. But obviously Kevin Stefanski being
Speaker 2: the first Browns coach to win back to back games
Speaker 2: against the Steelers since two thousand and one, they have
Speaker 2: not won back to back game. That's got to help.
Speaker 2: I think Jimmy Haslam, their owner, who used to be
Speaker 2: a part owner of the Steelers, and I believe used
Speaker 2: to be a Steelers fan. This means a little more
Speaker 2: to him, and I think beating the Steelers on national
Speaker 2: TV and seeing that they're a much better team. Frankly
Speaker 2: with Jamis Winston, they're not a good team, but they're
Speaker 2: a much better team with Jamis Winston. I think it's
Speaker 2: got to help Stefanski not mention the back to back,
Speaker 2: you know, not back to back but two time Coach
Speaker 2: of the Year winner.
Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean, obviously we're not even talking about the
Speaker 4: Deshaun Watson of it all. That's the real the undercurrent here,
Speaker 4: that's that's their whole season. But this, this idea occurred
Speaker 4: to me because I was listening to Zach Jackson's podcast
Speaker 4: from The Athletic for you know, getting getting prepped for
Speaker 4: this game, and he was talking about they're probably not
Speaker 4: It wouldn't make sense to fire Stefanski mid season if
Speaker 4: that it was something they wanted to do, because there
Speaker 4: probably would be interest league wide in the trade. You know,
Speaker 4: we don't see a lot of trades, but we saw
Speaker 4: the Sean Payton trade. I think we saw the Bruce
Speaker 4: arians trade was the most recent one before that. I
Speaker 4: don't know if they would do that. I feel like
Speaker 4: you lose all your leverage if it's a guy you're
Speaker 4: just going to fire. But I think I think Stefanski
Speaker 4: would be a coach who would be like a relatively
Speaker 4: hot commodity giving the given the amount of openings there
Speaker 4: could be, and I was trying to think of what
Speaker 4: team might be willing to trade for him. The only
Speaker 4: one that that sort of made sense to me is Jacksonville,
Speaker 4: because that's an owner that is just trying desperately to
Speaker 4: figure it out somehow. They have like they've tried all
Speaker 4: of these different avenues, and I think you could maybe
Speaker 4: talk yourself into this as a guy who can who
Speaker 4: can help Trevor Lawrence, but I don't know.
Speaker 2: Schefter threw it out there this week there could be
Speaker 2: up to nine head coaching hirings firings, and I was like,
Speaker 2: I thought that was a crazy number, and then I
Speaker 2: started writing down and we might do a segment on
Speaker 2: this soon. There are a lot it's very early. We
Speaker 2: have seven games left for a lot of these teams,
Speaker 2: and I think it's gonna be over five. I don't know.
Speaker 2: I think the beard alone that Stefanski has is worth
Speaker 2: a conditional seventh.
Speaker 4: I agree with that the beard is fantastic as as
Speaker 4: someone who's rocking a salt and pepper Now myself.
Speaker 2: I know we're both with fledged. I would say maybe
Speaker 2: fledgling beards mine. I think I'm actually gonna bring mine back.
Speaker 2: It's only been a couple of weeks here and I'm gonnaink.
Speaker 2: I'm gonna go back to this doubles soon. But that
Speaker 2: if I had a beard like that, I would I
Speaker 2: would walk around just with incredible confidence, the confidence of
Speaker 2: a Kevin Sefanski. He's always carried himself like a two
Speaker 2: time Coach of the Year winner.
Speaker 4: Lay not to not to reference an old trope on
Speaker 4: the show. But I do think it's a very nice zatty.
Speaker 6: Look.
Speaker 2: Yes, yes, I I don't disagree. He's a handsome man.
Speaker 2: And I don't know if you would really have that
Speaker 2: much interest in the trademark. You don't think, I think no,
Speaker 2: I think for a coach to really have trade value.
Speaker 4: He's like for a seventh so like it could be
Speaker 4: something at that level, but it's such a weird thing
Speaker 4: to trade for a coach.
Speaker 6: Like.
Speaker 2: I also thought they tried to make it somewhat illegal,
Speaker 2: but then the Sean Payton thing happened, and who knows.
Speaker 2: You also wrote down Jermaine Affetti you wanted to talk
Speaker 2: about Jermaine going to get here, who almost was.
Speaker 5: A real goat in this game.
Speaker 6: Give up?
Speaker 2: Yeah, he gave up the sack. That jamis Winston. It
Speaker 2: was not Winston's fault. By the way, I had someone
Speaker 2: respond to me on Blue Sky that like, like, oh,
Speaker 2: now Winston's being Winston. I'm like, they got that guy
Speaker 2: got there in a second and a half on the
Speaker 2: blind side that is not on the quarterback.
Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean you'd like to see him hold onto
Speaker 4: the ball, but the.
Speaker 2: Service but that was I mean not really in a
Speaker 2: second and a half.
Speaker 5: I mean they left the they let the guy go free,
Speaker 5: like yeah.
Speaker 2: I'm not gonna kill him for that, and Fetti had
Speaker 2: a big penalty earlier. That was that was the one
Speaker 2: that that Winston made up. Wait, what is your Affetti?
Speaker 4: I mean it's a very silly thing, but but he
Speaker 4: holds a special place in the Birds with Friends a
Speaker 4: verse is what I will call it, which is which
Speaker 4: dates back to when Sheil Capatia was the Seahawks reporter
Speaker 4: for ESPN and they did the pre draft like NFL
Speaker 4: Nation mock draft. It's very funny, like the prediction of
Speaker 4: who the pick is going to be, and Siel says like,
Speaker 4: I think that the Seahawks are gonna draft JERMAINEA. Fetti
Speaker 4: for whatever reason, whatever reason, and then they flashed to
Speaker 4: the panel and Bill Pullion comes on and just crushes it,
Speaker 4: crushes Shiel everything he stands for, crushes are Fatti.
Speaker 5: There's no way this is going to be the pick.
Speaker 5: And then he becomes the pick.
Speaker 4: So that makes that he's the entry to why why
Speaker 4: Bill Pollion has been a future player for us for
Speaker 4: many years?
Speaker 2: That is hilarious Bill Pollian, Like, uh, don't you have
Speaker 2: a team to consult with to give them a totally
Speaker 2: terrible head coaching higher It's like, when will we stop
Speaker 2: letting Bill Polly and consult on coaching hires of guys
Speaker 2: that were good like fifteen years ago. It never works.
Speaker 2: So that not that I'm annoyed still about Bill Pollion
Speaker 2: changing the defensive holding.
Speaker 5: You're on the right side of history here, Yeah, I
Speaker 5: really am.
Speaker 2: I I love the garbage cans being banged that at
Speaker 2: like the snow and al and the garbage cans. Y.
Speaker 2: This was one of my favorites.
Speaker 4: That was totally fine. That gave that gave some color
Speaker 4: to the game. That was totally fine with that.
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, it was. It was the best performance by
Speaker 2: a fan group in the entire season. Like the the
Speaker 2: big Men. There's large men.
Speaker 5: Big men.
Speaker 2: You were gonna say, Christy, Yeah I was, and then
Speaker 2: I decided to not say it, but you said it
Speaker 2: for me. Yeah. My son Walker, we were watching the
Speaker 2: game together and he's just like, why is everyone so
Speaker 2: fat in Cleveland. It's like, yeah, well that's a that's
Speaker 2: a kid just being honest.
Speaker 5: I mean, that's a that's a very la opinion.
Speaker 2: I mean, they were big, they were big guys.
Speaker 4: I do like I will say, I prefer I like
Speaker 4: the overalls, nothing underneath look for those guys as opposed
Speaker 4: to the guys who just went straight no shirt.
Speaker 2: I agree with you that that's a better look. And look,
Speaker 2: it's easier to survive out there in in sub freezing
Speaker 2: snow conditions if you've got you know, if you've got
Speaker 2: a big belly.
Speaker 5: Got it's like a body walrus.
Speaker 2: They Yeah, before we wrap up, let's let's go back
Speaker 2: just quickly to before the game. And it's one of
Speaker 2: it's one of the reasons we love Jamis. It's it's
Speaker 2: not just the game, it's the it's the just the
Speaker 2: full Jamis of it all. This was him talking before
Speaker 2: the game. Weather conditions tonight.
Speaker 3: We're expecting wins up to fifteen miles per hour in
Speaker 3: a wintery mix.
Speaker 2: How will that impact your ability to throw the ball.
Speaker 7: I'm so happy and grateful that the Lord has asked
Speaker 7: me to play in some snow, to be in true
Speaker 7: football weather in Cleveland, Ohio at Huntington bank Field today
Speaker 7: to get him the glory.
Speaker 2: It's a beautiful day.
Speaker 5: I have seen that there right.
Speaker 2: I love that. I had not seen that, and it
Speaker 2: was perfect because it was barely snowing at that point,
Speaker 2: and by the end he got the snow game of
Speaker 2: his dreams, the first time he said he ever played
Speaker 2: in the snow in his entire life.
Speaker 4: Also, I mean, what a what a company man to
Speaker 4: make sure that he says Huntington Bank and gets the
Speaker 4: official name of the stadium in there. I could not
Speaker 4: have told you that was the name of the stadium.
Speaker 2: I honestly, that is the first time I've ever heard
Speaker 2: that that's hunting.
Speaker 4: It would be very funny if it wasn't, right, is it? Like,
Speaker 4: do we know that Jamis just made that up? That'd
Speaker 4: be great.
Speaker 2: It could be a fictional bank and I wouldn't be
Speaker 2: surprised before I let you go bo just quickly. I
Speaker 2: wanted to give the Steelers schedule this this was a
Speaker 2: big loss. Uh, They're they're at eight and three now.
Speaker 2: Their upcoming schedule at Cincinnati home for the Browns, at
Speaker 2: your Eagles, at the Ravens home for the Chiefs, and
Speaker 2: then home for the Bengals. That is that's a tough road.
Speaker 2: Let's say you split with the Bengals. You know it's
Speaker 2: a good team. Let's just say we you split. Let's
Speaker 2: say you beat the Browns. You don't get swept by
Speaker 2: the Browns. Okay, that's that's two and one, So.
Speaker 5: You get one of the next those three.
Speaker 2: But if you get one of the other three, I
Speaker 2: would say that's fine. At Philly, at Baltimore, Casey, that's
Speaker 2: three and three. And this this loss really looms large
Speaker 2: and kind of opens the door for the Ravens to
Speaker 2: come win this division.
Speaker 4: Yeah, although I you know, I'm not necessarily sure that
Speaker 4: I'm I'm counting the Mike Tomon of it all out.
Speaker 4: Maybe they could steal they could steal two of those three.
Speaker 4: But yeah, I think I think, you know, the numbers
Speaker 4: would tell us, the eye test would tell us that
Speaker 4: on over a seventeen game span that the Ravens are
Speaker 4: probably a better team. So they have certainly opened the
Speaker 4: door for them to come in.
Speaker 2: Not a great Tomlin game. Some game management stuff at
Speaker 2: the end of the first half, similar at the end
Speaker 2: of the second half. But I'll forgive it just for
Speaker 2: those clumps of snow.
Speaker 4: The Tomin experience is not about the the the micro
Speaker 4: of the in game decision making, right. It's about getting
Speaker 4: guys to play as hard as they can.
Speaker 2: It's about the vibes and so are you. Like I said,
Speaker 2: check out Bo Wolf give you. I'm just gonna say it,
Speaker 2: the best team team podcasts out there, phl Y Eagles.
Speaker 2: And you're holding up the Michael Dunn jersey. Explain why
Speaker 2: that was because you had a great stat when he
Speaker 2: was on the field in the first half.
Speaker 4: Three snaps, they hadn't had a first down the entire game.
Speaker 4: Three snaps, two first downs and a touchdown.
Speaker 2: And he's connected because he is he's married to your
Speaker 2: former or current producer.
Speaker 4: Who's still at the athletic does fantastic work. She's a
Speaker 4: complete badass. And following the Michael Dunn story for the
Speaker 4: past however many years, has been has been a real pleasure.
Speaker 2: Uh bo wol If you are complete badass too, and
Speaker 2: that this isn't even the whole podcast. If I was
Speaker 2: a better host, I just got over zealous and over excited.
Speaker 2: But if you read the Team of the Year before
Speaker 2: listening to this, you would know that we also have
Speaker 2: an interview as part of this podcast. I've been talking
Speaker 2: about it earlier in the week. We're gonna hear from
Speaker 2: Anthony Weaver, the defensive coordinator of the Miami Dolphins, Jordan
Speaker 2: rod Rieg joins me for this conversation. It was a
Speaker 2: really good talk with an up and coming coordinator, probably
Speaker 2: a future NFL head coach. He's got a tough matchup
Speaker 2: this week against Drake May, but I didn't hold that
Speaker 2: against him.
Speaker 4: For the real, for the real Jordan Rodrigue heads. We
Speaker 4: had her on our show today talking about the Rams
Speaker 4: Eagles game and the Eagles front office.
Speaker 5: If you really need more Jordan than your life, you
Speaker 5: have an.
Speaker 2: Extra we all do. Look at look at that pro
Speaker 2: getting the plug in at the very last second. So
Speaker 2: we'll take a quick break and we'll listen to Anthony
Speaker 2: Weaver on the other end. All right, I'm very excited
Speaker 2: for our guests this week, a little different on NFL
Speaker 2: Daily here with Jordan Rodrigue of course, and welcoming in
Speaker 2: Anthony Weaver, the defensive coordinator of the Miami Dolphins with
Speaker 2: a very cool looking logo backdrop. There, you did it
Speaker 2: upright on your zoom, Anthony, Thanks, Yeah, I did it
Speaker 2: all myself.
Speaker 3: He drew the dolphin, you know, he programmed everything, installed
Speaker 3: the LED lighting. You know, I wouldn't be surprised based
Speaker 3: on the job you're doing over there. Covering every no
Speaker 3: stone is unturned over there. It seems like with your
Speaker 3: group this year, Anthony, Oh, you guys are.
Speaker 8: Too kind, having incredible players who are going on giving
Speaker 8: maximum effort.
Speaker 6: Man, which is it all gives you a chance?
Speaker 2: Okay, so now we're going to really really hard with
Speaker 2: like the hard hitting and no no. I was thinking
Speaker 2: about you because I remember you as a player you
Speaker 2: happen to be and I think it was about the
Speaker 2: second or third year of your career when I started
Speaker 2: my career covering the league. I remember you for those
Speaker 2: Ravens teams and the Texans, and I was thinking, I've
Speaker 2: seen that you've gotten a game ball as a coach
Speaker 2: as a defensive coordinator, Like, tell me about the different
Speaker 2: satisfaction level maybe, which is different better whatever, between getting
Speaker 2: a game ball as a player and now you're you're
Speaker 2: doing it as a coordinator.
Speaker 8: I think getting the game ball as a player exactly
Speaker 8: much easier than trying as a cover, right, because ultimately,
Speaker 8: as a player, like you're just responsible for the for
Speaker 8: the one person yourself, Yeah, and you do everything you
Speaker 8: can to try to perfectly the week and prepare yourself
Speaker 8: to go out there and make plays when they present
Speaker 8: themselves well as a coach now, like you go through
Speaker 8: all those same processes and now you're doing it for
Speaker 8: third something on people. Oh, when those guys go out
Speaker 8: there and obviously play the way they did, it's rewarding
Speaker 8: to get a game ball, but it's more it's more
Speaker 8: satisfying just to see those guys have the success because
Speaker 8: of some of the work, just some of the work.
Speaker 3: That you've put for And you know, I think I
Speaker 3: want to go a little deeper on that too, Anthony,
Speaker 3: because you're managing so many different types of people. You're
Speaker 3: reaching so many personalities. Like I covered Jalen Ramsey for
Speaker 3: example in Los Angeles, and he just absolutely is a
Speaker 3: rising tide that can lift all boats and such a
Speaker 3: unique individual. But you're also you know, you've got Kalas
Speaker 3: Campbell thirty eight years old and still doing the dang thing,
Speaker 3: and you've got just a bunch of players who are
Speaker 3: trying to show up and make plays for you, and
Speaker 3: a lot of moving parts. So how have you been
Speaker 3: your first year in this role? How have you reached
Speaker 3: such a dynamic range of personalities and what communication levels
Speaker 3: and layers differentiate when you're trying to for example, install
Speaker 3: something with a very experienced players such as those two
Speaker 3: I mentioned, but then also install something maybe complex with
Speaker 3: younger players, rookies, guys who are really trying to show
Speaker 3: up on the tape for you.
Speaker 6: Yeah.
Speaker 8: Well, to answer the first part of your question, I
Speaker 8: think my ability to kind of communicate and talk with
Speaker 8: a bunch of different type of people, I think it's
Speaker 8: truly a product of just the way I grew up.
Speaker 6: I'm a very proud arm bred.
Speaker 8: My dad was in the Army for twenty one twenty
Speaker 8: two years, and my mother actually surved for two as well,
Speaker 8: so we moved like every four years, and that kind
Speaker 8: of forced you to learn how to talk to people
Speaker 8: and kind of had you couldn't be shy, and I
Speaker 8: think naturally, by nature I was a shy kid, but
Speaker 8: I knew that I couldn't be that way otherwise I
Speaker 8: really was gonna have many friends. So that moving around
Speaker 8: and kind of learning to kind of be personal and
Speaker 8: how to talk to people and develop relationships is absolutely
Speaker 8: benefited me in my coaching career in terms of just
Speaker 8: installing and trying to talk to just the different players,
Speaker 8: you know, at whatever stage of the career that a're in.
Speaker 8: I think the one thing you never want to do
Speaker 8: as a coach is assume and take anything for granted,
Speaker 8: because I would tell the guys all the time either
Speaker 8: either growing or you're dying. So you try to make
Speaker 8: sure you hit the elementary things absolutely, and you just
Speaker 8: want to make sure you hit every detail with the
Speaker 8: guys constantly, because there might be one day where if
Speaker 8: it may sit there like, oh, I've heard this a
Speaker 8: million times and there's something you said differently, and now
Speaker 8: now it clicks different and that's the difference between making
Speaker 8: a play or just missing a play. So constantly talking
Speaker 8: to guys like you can't assume anything right, cross every t,
Speaker 8: dot every eye, and let's make sure we leave no
Speaker 8: stone in turn.
Speaker 2: Yeah. I heard one of your players, Anthony Walker, describe
Speaker 2: the defense as complicated for them talking about the opponent
Speaker 2: and simple for us, which I loved as a writer,
Speaker 2: like that is concise, Like that is one of those
Speaker 2: frames is you could put up on the walls in
Speaker 2: Miami or whatever you always see had hard knocks with
Speaker 2: the motivational phrases that that's good. Complicated for them, simple
Speaker 2: for us. What does that mean to you?
Speaker 6: Yeah, that's the goal, that's ultimately the goal. Right.
Speaker 8: I actually learned it from Rex Ryan. His philosophy was
Speaker 8: the kill philosophy. Right, people just have kiss which keep
Speaker 8: it simple. Stupid, Well, we don't. We don't think anybody
Speaker 8: is stupid. So we apply to kill flock.
Speaker 6: Which.
Speaker 8: People just learn a variety of different ways. Right, You
Speaker 8: just gotta just gotta figure it.
Speaker 2: Out every once in a while. Though there's kind of
Speaker 2: a dummy. Though it's human nature.
Speaker 6: You won't hear that from me.
Speaker 8: So k I L L.
Speaker 3: What does it mean and how do you apply it?
Speaker 8: Yeah, it means keep it likable and learnable. So the
Speaker 8: one thing first and foremost when when guys walk into
Speaker 8: that meeting room made I want them to want to
Speaker 8: be there. I don't want them to dread coming to meetings.
Speaker 8: We've all had those jobs, we've all been in those
Speaker 8: those classes.
Speaker 6: Go back to college where you had to go into the.
Speaker 8: Class and we're like, oh God, I gotta I listen
Speaker 8: to his teacher again. That's that's the first thing I
Speaker 8: want to get rid of. I want guys to be
Speaker 8: excited walking into building. And then we try to do
Speaker 8: anything possible to make sure the information that we give
Speaker 8: him is very digestible. So we try to be bold,
Speaker 8: brilliant and brief, right because because the attention spans for
Speaker 8: some of these guys nowadays, particularly in the iPhone age,
Speaker 8: like you just you can't sit up there and lecture. Oh,
Speaker 8: try very hard to make create an environment that guys
Speaker 8: want to be in. And then when we do present
Speaker 8: the information, we find a number of ways to try
Speaker 8: to give it to them so it retains and it
Speaker 8: hits them in the right way.
Speaker 3: But how do you do that? You know, I spoke
Speaker 3: with I know he won't mind me sharing this. When
Speaker 3: I spoke with Mike McDaniel right after he hired you,
Speaker 3: he said a he wanted somebody who could make the
Speaker 3: complex simple for players and communicate effectively and as a
Speaker 3: teacher and a teaching mindset, someone who could reach players
Speaker 3: who players wouldn't feel on guard or that could really
Speaker 3: be open with you. But also somebody who is going
Speaker 3: to be installing and evolving what's coming next in defense
Speaker 3: in this league. And you have to walk that line
Speaker 3: in your role because you're always trying to look around
Speaker 3: the corner and evolve into what's next while teaching something
Speaker 3: from the ground up. So what does that look like
Speaker 3: for you personally, and how do you keep pushing this system,
Speaker 3: the scheme, this philosophy forward while game planning week to
Speaker 3: week and also making sure no player is left behind
Speaker 3: with what the baseline of the information is.
Speaker 8: Yeah, well I think that starts way back prior to
Speaker 8: training campany each spring, when we install, we try to
Speaker 8: install concepts. Right, So once you learn a curl flat drop,
Speaker 8: we try to teach everybody a curl flat drop, and
Speaker 8: vice versa for a number of different things. We don't
Speaker 8: just say, hey, this is cover three, this is what
Speaker 8: it is, and then we just kind of mix and
Speaker 8: match the people around, you know, manipulate coverages by half
Speaker 8: field and play with where you can and they and
Speaker 8: the beauty and we have we have some guys with
Speaker 8: some pretty high football intelligence and football IQ, so we
Speaker 8: can kind of move people around seamlessly. And it goes
Speaker 8: back to what Walk said, where we can we can
Speaker 8: do things that look complexity the offense but are very
Speaker 8: simple for us.
Speaker 6: The other thing is just schematically.
Speaker 8: In terms of like coverages and blitzes and coverage variation
Speaker 8: and things.
Speaker 6: Of that nature. We do a lot. Okay, we do.
Speaker 8: Now we found a way in teaching and teaching that
Speaker 8: where again it's simple for our guys because we teach
Speaker 8: so so much part to hold right and then just
Speaker 8: in terms of trying to stay ahead of the trends
Speaker 8: because of that, like we go on to the game
Speaker 8: plan with a very concise menu.
Speaker 6: But because we've put.
Speaker 8: So much on tape, when you're an offense and you're
Speaker 8: studying us, you're like, oh, what are we going to see?
Speaker 8: Like they do this, they do that, We're not doing
Speaker 8: that every week, right, we try to pare it down
Speaker 8: obviously by the opponent.
Speaker 3: By the opponent, and because you're understanding why offenses will
Speaker 3: try to attack certain parts of the field and try
Speaker 3: to manipulate space. But you're teach players why they're doing
Speaker 3: the things that they're doing and why you're uploading this
Speaker 3: concept before you start to build pieces around. Do you
Speaker 3: find players to be empowered by that? I think a
Speaker 3: lot of players want to know why in this age
Speaker 3: of belief.
Speaker 8: Yeah, that's that's the old you know, the build Belichickianism. Right,
Speaker 8: you can you can teach a player how, but but
Speaker 8: it truly becomes powerful and they know the why behind it.
Speaker 6: And we're we're always trying to preach that because.
Speaker 8: Obviously, like as coaches, you can see things one way,
Speaker 8: but they're the ones out there who are playing the game.
Speaker 8: So I think as long as they understand big pictures
Speaker 8: schematically what everybody around them is doing, that's going to
Speaker 8: enable them to decide when they can and can't take chances.
Speaker 6: Right, they can take some some educated guesses.
Speaker 2: I'm taking notes here, bold, brilliant, and brief, Like that's
Speaker 2: gonna go up better. I was like, we're trying for
Speaker 2: the bold and the brilliant brief. I think both.
Speaker 3: I I struggle with the brief.
Speaker 2: We could both work on a little bit.
Speaker 6: You.
Speaker 2: I always been fascinated by, you know, players that made
Speaker 2: it to the NFL that want to be coaches because
Speaker 2: you know how a coaching lifestyle is in the in
Speaker 2: the NFL, And I guess maybe it's your background moving
Speaker 2: around it as as a kid too, like that gets
Speaker 2: you somewhat prepared, but knowing what coaches put into it,
Speaker 2: it feels like that's a special level of football sicco
Speaker 2: that wants to go from a good playing career to
Speaker 2: a coaching cared Did you know you wanted to do
Speaker 2: that while you were playing?
Speaker 6: Yeah, I gotta be honest, I absolutely did not right.
Speaker 8: Right again, I grew up with with Rex Ryan, with
Speaker 8: my position coach when I first got in the league,
Speaker 8: and I would just hear nightmare stories about him sleeping
Speaker 8: in office Monday and Tuesday.
Speaker 6: I'm like, oh my god.
Speaker 8: I'm like Rex, like, it's just a I'm going to
Speaker 8: get a reach block and down block a double team,
Speaker 8: Like you were in the office that long for that.
Speaker 6: What are you doing?
Speaker 8: But along the way, as I started age, I was
Speaker 8: in Houston and I was with some young players, right
Speaker 8: young Mario Williams, Amobia Koy who was a heck of
Speaker 8: a player, but it was like fifty came out playing
Speaker 8: in the league. So I kind of found myself in
Speaker 8: that coaching mentor role towards the end of my career,
Speaker 8: and I think that's when the light started to come
Speaker 8: on a little bit where he's like, you know what,
Speaker 8: maybe maybe I can do this and just has some
Speaker 8: coaches along the way who I mean going back to
Speaker 8: my high school coach with Blazerana, who were just tremendous
Speaker 8: influences and thought I could serve and help players in
Speaker 8: that manner to a game that's been incredibly.
Speaker 6: Good to me.
Speaker 3: It seems like. I mean, we could see it on
Speaker 3: your face as you talked to us. How important that
Speaker 3: last part in particular is knowing what worked not just
Speaker 3: for you, but all the guys you know you're going
Speaker 3: to battle with every week, and knowing what was important
Speaker 3: to them, what mattered to them, some of those principles.
Speaker 3: You must self talk a lot, reminding yourself those types
Speaker 3: of things what worked for you as a player, and
Speaker 3: carrying them forward into how you run your ecosystem today.
Speaker 6: Yeah, I was.
Speaker 8: I was cairly fortunate where I was around a bunch
Speaker 8: of coaches who I felt were in it for the
Speaker 8: right reasons right there.
Speaker 6: There was no selfish intent.
Speaker 8: They all worked in service and they were just ultimately
Speaker 8: trying trying to get us better so that we can
Speaker 8: maximize our God given ability in it. And I try
Speaker 8: very much to do the same thing right selfishly, I'd
Speaker 8: love to win a Super Bowl, but everything else, man,
Speaker 8: I'm just trying to pour into these guys so that
Speaker 8: they can realize every one of their dreams.
Speaker 2: Yeah. One of the players that was in the league
Speaker 2: for a long was in the league when you were
Speaker 2: in it. Is that possible?
Speaker 3: Oh?
Speaker 2: Yeah, for sure. It was Kalais Campbell, who you're now coaching,
Speaker 2: who's actually not that much younger than you. What, I'm
Speaker 2: always shocked just from the outside that he sits out
Speaker 2: there in free agency every year and then he just
Speaker 2: gets a one year contract Inlook, he's compensated very well,
Speaker 2: but compared to other players, younger players that are out
Speaker 2: there every year, he's one of the best. Like bargains
Speaker 2: out there. He comes into a team and he he
Speaker 2: he change that team and he's still playing at a
Speaker 2: ridiculously high level. Seeing him and Zack Seeler out there together,
Speaker 2: to me, is part of your secret Sauce certainly was
Speaker 2: a big part of that that rams win that you had.
Speaker 2: I just I don't know, tell me something about coaching
Speaker 2: Kalais Cambellon what that's been like.
Speaker 6: Oh man, what an absolute joy?
Speaker 8: Right that guy you talk about, the guy who's the
Speaker 8: same guy every day, a consummate professional, just just your
Speaker 8: He's a force multiplier. There isn't a person he interacts
Speaker 8: with who isn't better as a result of that interaction.
Speaker 8: So one of those things when when I got the job,
Speaker 8: you know, you try, you try to talk about the
Speaker 8: type of player you want by position and we're talking
Speaker 8: about the big end spot and I'm like, I'm telling
Speaker 8: Chris and Mike and I'm like, listen, Las Campbell's out there,
Speaker 8: and like, oh, they're like, coach, He's he's.
Speaker 6: Thirty eight years old. Thirty eight years.
Speaker 8: Old, he's you know, I'm like, I get it, I
Speaker 8: understand that, but just just watch the tape.
Speaker 6: He's certainly bill play at a high level.
Speaker 8: And what you can't get people to understand that haven't
Speaker 8: been around him is just how he makes everyone in
Speaker 8: the building.
Speaker 6: Better, not just on defense but on offense with the.
Speaker 8: Coaching staff, Like he is just positively reinforcing everything you're
Speaker 8: trying to get done as a coach because he has
Speaker 8: exact he has the same goals at this point of career,
Speaker 8: Like there's nothing he has in accomplished. He's Man of
Speaker 8: the Year, Pro Bowls, right, all Pros, all of those things,
Speaker 8: and he's chasing one thing and that's winning in Super Bowl.
Speaker 8: So he's doing everything within his power to try to
Speaker 8: make that happen. And obviously he makes life incredibly easy
Speaker 8: for me as a ball coach too.
Speaker 3: I love that My first job I was running, I
Speaker 3: was interning for the Arizona Cardinals running quotes, and he
Speaker 3: always took me aside in the locker room. We would
Speaker 3: never remember this now and say do you need anything?
Speaker 3: Are you okay? And now to see him, he's just
Speaker 3: the exact same with and that was. You know, I
Speaker 3: don't want to age myself with the I'm definitely younger
Speaker 3: than both of you and kalays just to throw that
Speaker 3: out there. One thing. I know we're being so you know,
Speaker 3: greedy with your time. I know we got to go,
Speaker 3: but I did want to ask you because you know,
Speaker 3: this league is so driven by quarterbacks, and as a
Speaker 3: defensive coordinator, you have to have this innate understanding of
Speaker 3: quarterbacks and how to attack them on your side, especially
Speaker 3: as that position evolves and changes and you see a
Speaker 3: new wave of really young guys and then you see
Speaker 3: Matthew Stafford and you have to figure out how to
Speaker 3: confuse the heck out of him with some of the
Speaker 3: coverage and sims that you were running in that game.
Speaker 3: How do you walk that line between you know, strategizing
Speaker 3: toward the next wave and then that all out preparation
Speaker 3: of a game plan against a guy who's seen it all.
Speaker 8: Yeah, yeah, you love it, right, you love it, You
Speaker 8: love the challenges week to week, just just based on
Speaker 8: who that guy is. I mean a guy like Matthew
Speaker 8: Stafford will face Aaron Rodgers here in a few weeks.
Speaker 8: There isn't there isn't a pressure disguise that they haven't seen.
Speaker 8: So you're constantly just trying to put some in decision
Speaker 8: in their heads, and a majority of the time that's
Speaker 8: going to be with your rush right and trying to
Speaker 8: get people at their feet because they are a little
Speaker 8: bit up there in age, these young younger guys, I
Speaker 8: tell you what they run around.
Speaker 6: It's the play after the play.
Speaker 8: Most of the time when somebody these younger guys, you
Speaker 8: try to do everything you can take away their first,
Speaker 8: hopefully their second read. But when that breaks down, you
Speaker 8: don't know what's going to happen after that, and then
Speaker 8: you just hold your breath and hope somebody on defense
Speaker 8: makes a phenomenal.
Speaker 2: Yeah, you got an interest you one this week. Drake
Speaker 2: may like, what are you seeing? What are you seeing
Speaker 2: there on tape?
Speaker 8: I think you see just that you see a young
Speaker 8: player who's certainly developing confidence in his ability. He's certainly
Speaker 8: still trying to figure out the coverage just variation of
Speaker 8: the league. But he has all the talent in the world,
Speaker 8: and at any point in time, he can pull the
Speaker 8: ball down and chew you up for rushing yards for
Speaker 8: about twenty five thirty yards.
Speaker 6: So we always got to be cognist of that too.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I want to own my biases. I grew up
Speaker 2: in Massachusetts, and so you know.
Speaker 3: He tells me before the show, he was like, I
Speaker 3: have to ask him to.
Speaker 2: See it could be an It's always been a fun
Speaker 2: rivalry Dolphins Patriots. You're you're now part of it, at
Speaker 2: least for a couple of games this year. I know
Speaker 2: you had had coaching interview last year, so who knows
Speaker 2: how long you'll be in Miami, but obviously doing a
Speaker 2: great job with the Dolphins. And we appreciate your time, Anthony.
Speaker 2: Thanks for it.
Speaker 6: Thanks guys, I appreciate you having me all all right.
Speaker 2: That was Anthony Weaver. That was awesome, Jordan.
Speaker 3: I love talking to him. He's great, what a what
Speaker 3: a great personality, great football mind. You had to get
Speaker 3: your Drake made question, which I loved.
Speaker 2: I know I wanted it almost to be a little
Speaker 2: more pointed, like heh what you worried it's kind of
Speaker 2: like an older secondary you got there, No.
Speaker 5: I don't know.
Speaker 2: We you need to put his slogan up back clean
Speaker 2: this young buck in the open field, you think so,
Speaker 2: Jalen Ramsey would be very much up up for that.
Speaker 3: I feel like he's probably just got a picture of
Speaker 3: him in his locker upcoming for that game.
Speaker 2: Just you know that would be outstanding. Yes, and if yeah,
Speaker 2: if you get a chance to see it on YouTube,
Speaker 2: just the smile, like the vibe, you can't you can
Speaker 2: get a little bit of a vibe from someone in
Speaker 2: only fifteen minutes. Why they do those combined interviews with
Speaker 2: all the draft prospects so you can see him as
Speaker 2: the type of person. And he's already now had head
Speaker 2: coaching interviews. He had one with the Falcons last year
Speaker 2: in DC interviews that I'll be just kind of watching
Speaker 2: where it goes. You could see him impressing an owner
Speaker 2: in that setting. And we're seeing kind of a trend.
Speaker 2: Not to get too off topic here, but if you
Speaker 2: look at who's leading the divisions right now, the coaches,
Speaker 2: it's a lot of not an offense guy. It's a
Speaker 2: lot of running the culture sort of guy, or a
Speaker 2: defensive guy, you know, making the culture versus just like
Speaker 2: offensive play callers. So yeah, a lot of different ways
Speaker 2: to get it.
Speaker 3: Guys who played, Guys who can kind of get it
Speaker 3: inside the head of the player and sort of maximize potential.
Speaker 3: Certainly a shift from what was the sort of the
Speaker 3: dynamic there last year. Although it's working out in Philly
Speaker 3: for everyone, so it's kind of a win win win.
Speaker 2: People are going to look at the lines and like, oh, so,
Speaker 2: how did they do it? And that that was a coach.
Speaker 2: I think it was more about building the culture and
Speaker 2: studying the tone, be able to reach play. Yeah, not
Speaker 2: just like calling plays. That was and they weaver that
Speaker 2: was a great week. You've obviously time traveled from Tuesday
Speaker 2: into this show. Appreciate everyone listening. We will be back
Speaker 2: on Friday with our PIC show. Cynthia Freelan, I don't
Speaker 2: know if you've heard people talking about this, Jordan, The
Speaker 2: PIC show is hot right now. I like, so, I
Speaker 2: hear the picks are hot, the analysis are hot. Both
Speaker 2: Cynthia and I are on fire for right now. And yes,
Speaker 2: when we're talking to a member of the two thousand
Speaker 2: and six Kubiak Texans, you know football is back.