WEBVTT - Nurses Strikes and Class War in the UK, Part 1 0:00:04.920 --> 0:00:06.920 Welcome to Dick it happened here, a podcast for the 0:00:07.000 --> 0:00:10.760 Thing is Not Well, We're here has temporarily been relocated 0:00:10.760 --> 0:00:13.560 to the UK once again. Oh what am awful place 0:00:13.600 --> 0:00:18.000 to be? Lookay, Yeah, I'm your host Mia Wong, and 0:00:18.160 --> 0:00:21.560 today with me to talk about things in the Kingdom 0:00:21.640 --> 0:00:24.119 that is united for some reason is Nick, who is 0:00:24.320 --> 0:00:26.840 a resident nurse there? Nick. How are you doing? I'm 0:00:26.840 --> 0:00:29.639 doing all right? Um, a lot better for being a 0:00:29.720 --> 0:00:35.680 holiday right now. Yeah, yeah, getting getting, getting to escape 0:00:35.760 --> 0:00:44.400 the sort of dismal swamp of rainy, rainy Island. Yeah. 0:00:45.560 --> 0:00:48.239 So on the other hand, there are things that are 0:00:48.280 --> 0:00:51.480 in motion on Turf Island which are interesting and cool, 0:00:51.960 --> 0:00:54.600 and that is on the Okay, So I have no 0:00:54.640 --> 0:00:56.440 idea once again when this is going to come out, 0:00:56.520 --> 0:00:59.800 Like this could be coming out like four weeks from now, 0:01:00.040 --> 0:01:02.280 like there could be six more prime ministers, like who 0:01:02.320 --> 0:01:07.080 knows what's going to happen. Um yeah, I six could 0:01:07.120 --> 0:01:10.119 be rich. He's outlasted the Lettus unlike our last one. 0:01:10.240 --> 0:01:15.240 But you know, sorry to anyone who's up to British 0:01:15.240 --> 0:01:17.880 political memes, that's going to be arcane and inscrutable And 0:01:17.959 --> 0:01:22.080 I'm not collecting we we we we we ran them 0:01:22.080 --> 0:01:24.360 through a like two hour British Politics boot camp a 0:01:24.360 --> 0:01:27.960 couple of weeks ago, so hopefully they still remember. Yeah. 0:01:28.040 --> 0:01:30.000 But so the reason thing is so on on on 0:01:30.200 --> 0:01:32.399 the day we are recording, there are a bunch of 0:01:32.400 --> 0:01:34.600 strikes going on in the UK. There have been a 0:01:34.640 --> 0:01:36.759 bunch of strikes going on in the UK for a while. 0:01:37.000 --> 0:01:39.880 They keep doing this weird okay, this is my this 0:01:39.920 --> 0:01:42.720 is my, my, my, my, my, I'm gonna I'm gonna 0:01:42.720 --> 0:01:44.479 do my one bit of what what are you guys 0:01:44.520 --> 0:01:47.960 doing strategically thing, which is okay. So they keep having 0:01:48.040 --> 0:01:51.720 these strikes and then they'll like go off strike for 0:01:51.880 --> 0:01:54.280 like three weeks as like a quote side of good 0:01:54.360 --> 0:01:57.280 faith for their negotiations, and then nothing happens and they 0:01:57.320 --> 0:01:59.400 go back on strike and it's like, well, okay, like 0:01:59.560 --> 0:02:03.160 you could not do this. Yeah, so straight strikes have 0:02:03.240 --> 0:02:06.280 been continuing, and yeah, I wanted to talk to you 0:02:06.320 --> 0:02:08.400 about some of the nurses strikes that's been happening and 0:02:08.400 --> 0:02:10.680 about the sort of organizing that's been going on, because 0:02:10.720 --> 0:02:13.480 that's what's been really cool and not reported on enough. 0:02:13.919 --> 0:02:16.800 I guess the place that I want to start with 0:02:16.880 --> 0:02:20.440 this is with the last art of deck, Well, I mean, 0:02:20.480 --> 0:02:22.200 I guess there's been a lot of usteria the UK, 0:02:22.320 --> 0:02:23.680 but I want to kind of start with the last 0:02:23.720 --> 0:02:27.000 sort of decade of austerity and the damage that's been 0:02:27.040 --> 0:02:29.360 doing to the healthcare system and what what what that's 0:02:29.400 --> 0:02:37.440 looked like on your end. So there's a couple of 0:02:37.480 --> 0:02:40.960 ways it's manifests. One is like there's been a centralization 0:02:41.000 --> 0:02:45.040 of healthcare services, are closing down of hospitals and making 0:02:45.160 --> 0:02:48.720 larger hospitals and contain more and more specialties. So, for instance, 0:02:48.760 --> 0:02:51.760 my hospital that I work in as a result, came 0:02:51.800 --> 0:02:55.160 about the closing downs about I think three smaller hospitals. 0:02:55.320 --> 0:02:59.240 She is, I mean eas hospital that was lost. We 0:02:59.360 --> 0:03:01.320 lost about at least a hundred beds for each one 0:03:01.360 --> 0:03:07.280 that was created that centralized into our one. There's been 0:03:07.520 --> 0:03:11.040 massive cut back in like lack of funding and preventive 0:03:11.080 --> 0:03:14.359 healthcare and community healthcare. One interesting example of how that 0:03:14.400 --> 0:03:19.560 manifests is like they shifted the provision of community healthcare 0:03:19.800 --> 0:03:23.600 and social care for new mothers to being run by 0:03:23.639 --> 0:03:28.720 the local council that's like local either county or city 0:03:28.720 --> 0:03:33.520 even larger cities level government, and then they would put 0:03:33.520 --> 0:03:35.800 out the process where rather than just it goes automatically 0:03:35.800 --> 0:03:37.360 to the NHS. It needs to be put out to 0:03:37.400 --> 0:03:43.880 tender and give like charities or nonprofits or even private 0:03:43.920 --> 0:03:47.720 healthcare providers an opportunity to bid on providing the service. 0:03:48.520 --> 0:03:52.120 That's and that's a terrible winner on the system. Oh no, 0:03:52.200 --> 0:03:55.840 it's absolutely insane. It's absolutely insane. And what and then 0:03:55.840 --> 0:03:58.560 the end result of this is the NHS service gets 0:03:58.720 --> 0:04:01.360 it because they're the only one that can actually credit 0:04:01.720 --> 0:04:05.640 credibly provide the service. But they have to essentially massively 0:04:05.720 --> 0:04:08.640 underestimate how much it will cost to run in order 0:04:08.640 --> 0:04:14.040 to run to run the service, Oh, because they have 0:04:14.040 --> 0:04:16.400 to they have to underbid the other services that are 0:04:16.400 --> 0:04:21.479 not going to Yeah. Wow, that is a terribly designed system. Yeah. 0:04:21.520 --> 0:04:27.000 And then there's also like introduction of like trying to 0:04:27.279 --> 0:04:29.279 in order to cut back on the backlogs that like 0:04:29.320 --> 0:04:34.000 the cutting down and services have created via like outsourcing 0:04:34.080 --> 0:04:39.960 some healthcare, some surgeries and stuff to private healthcare, private hospitals. 0:04:40.080 --> 0:04:42.000 But then they're able to just pick and choose the easiest, 0:04:42.160 --> 0:04:46.200 least risky, and most profitable ones. And of course, any 0:04:46.960 --> 0:04:52.960 any complications that result of the problems with surgery, issues 0:04:52.960 --> 0:04:56.919 with treatment, adverse reactions, the surgeons fucking it up because 0:04:56.960 --> 0:05:00.120 they were working overnight in order to get extra in 0:05:00.200 --> 0:05:03.279 order to get some extra money after doing a shift 0:05:03.279 --> 0:05:06.200 in the NHS hospital, which is often the case, then 0:05:06.240 --> 0:05:09.640 falls back on the NHS proper and then in terms 0:05:09.680 --> 0:05:15.359 of workforce the average on average, this isn't just nurses. 0:05:15.480 --> 0:05:18.600 There's an universal pay scale using the NHS for everyone 0:05:18.920 --> 0:05:22.719 called the Gender for Change. There's a pastory prime that 0:05:22.800 --> 0:05:27.320 confusing name, but the reason for that is it was 0:05:27.320 --> 0:05:30.240 a very much it was a less unified system before, 0:05:30.320 --> 0:05:33.840 like the early two thousands, everyone knew it was messed up. 0:05:33.920 --> 0:05:36.680 There was a big pushed by unions and also by 0:05:36.720 --> 0:05:39.360 government who wants to rationalize the whole thing to make 0:05:39.360 --> 0:05:43.320 it make more sense in theory, tie people's wage to 0:05:43.480 --> 0:05:45.440 what they were actually doing more directly in a more 0:05:45.480 --> 0:05:48.240 consistent way. Hence Agenda for Change because there was an 0:05:48.240 --> 0:05:50.680 agenda for changing of what's happening, but it's been in 0:05:50.720 --> 0:05:52.560 place for over twenty years. Not so the name doesn't 0:05:52.560 --> 0:05:55.400 make sense, but basically everyone on Agenda for Change has 0:05:55.440 --> 0:05:57.440 on average in the last ten years, had a twenty 0:05:57.480 --> 0:06:02.320 percent pay cut in real terms. Then doctors and dentists, 0:06:02.520 --> 0:06:07.400 because they're special boys love them, but you know, have 0:06:07.680 --> 0:06:10.520 on a different pay scale, and junior doctors on average 0:06:10.560 --> 0:06:13.560 have had an even worse paycut of about twenty eight percent. 0:06:14.160 --> 0:06:17.159 Then there are strikes. There are on strike like right now. Yeah, 0:06:17.200 --> 0:06:20.080 they're on strike right now. And unlike my union, they 0:06:20.080 --> 0:06:23.480 haven't pissed about the government. They've gone straight to a 0:06:23.520 --> 0:06:27.359 full three days no derogations, the term for agreeing to 0:06:28.400 --> 0:06:32.279 not provide services for life or in order to protect 0:06:32.320 --> 0:06:35.440 patient safety, which the RCN went in for in a 0:06:35.480 --> 0:06:37.200 big way. In some ways they've got it a bit 0:06:37.240 --> 0:06:39.440 easier and that they can just say, oh, the consultants 0:06:39.440 --> 0:06:42.440 will do all of this, like that is to you 0:06:42.640 --> 0:06:44.919 to translate into a mouth to make and healthcare that 0:06:44.920 --> 0:06:50.640 would be attending. And so this strike of junior doctors 0:06:50.680 --> 0:06:53.919 includes everyone from like their first two years post medical 0:06:53.960 --> 0:06:57.440 school what we call foundation years. Possibly that'd be equivalent 0:06:57.480 --> 0:07:01.640 to internship in America, and they and our registrars, so 0:07:01.680 --> 0:07:04.279 people who rested in specialty training equivalent of a like 0:07:04.320 --> 0:07:10.040 a resident. I believe the government tried to persuade them 0:07:10.080 --> 0:07:12.400 to call off in order to go into talks, but 0:07:12.440 --> 0:07:14.280 they hadn't made a big show in promise of like 0:07:14.440 --> 0:07:16.880 we will in good faith, we will call off strikes 0:07:16.880 --> 0:07:20.920 and go into negotiations if the government agrees to have 0:07:21.240 --> 0:07:24.680 serious formal talks. So they were able to just say 0:07:24.720 --> 0:07:27.120 to the government, no, you're putting too many preconditions on 0:07:27.160 --> 0:07:30.280 these talks. We're not doing it until you make until 0:07:30.320 --> 0:07:34.400 you stop messing us about, whereas unfortunately my union, the RCM, 0:07:34.640 --> 0:07:38.600 is addicted to protecting the image of nursing and like 0:07:38.680 --> 0:07:41.040 acting in good faith even when they're dealing with someone 0:07:41.040 --> 0:07:45.600 who have no intention of dealing in good faith. Yeah, which, yeah, 0:07:45.640 --> 0:07:49.080 that that that I don't know as a strategy. It's 0:07:49.080 --> 0:07:52.280 really frustrating because you just didn't get like you can 0:07:52.280 --> 0:07:55.440 just get locked in endless negotiations, which is nothing is happening, 0:07:55.480 --> 0:08:10.120 And yeah, it's really frustrating to pricing the SOCLE compact. This. 0:08:11.080 --> 0:08:14.040 The RCM in England, Wales and Scotland Northern ireland's a 0:08:14.040 --> 0:08:17.440 slightly different story. I've never had a strike until last year. 0:08:18.200 --> 0:08:24.320 Historically the RCN was an anti strike union. Wait white, yeah, yes, 0:08:24.640 --> 0:08:27.240 that's the thing in the UK. Yeah, like I know, 0:08:27.400 --> 0:08:29.080 I know, like the US has a lot of weird, 0:08:29.160 --> 0:08:31.640 not very good unions, but like, I don't know, I'm 0:08:31.680 --> 0:08:35.439 notch ever heard of me? Really, that's yes. Wow, So 0:08:35.600 --> 0:08:38.480 that changed either in the nineties or the early two thousands. 0:08:38.559 --> 0:08:41.320 I honestly can't remember when I tried to look it up. 0:08:41.400 --> 0:08:44.000 But whenever you trying to search this stuff, just your 0:08:44.000 --> 0:08:47.160 search results are like flooded by stuff around the latest round. 0:08:47.520 --> 0:08:49.680 What you're gonna understand is the RCN. It's one hundred 0:08:49.760 --> 0:08:53.679 and six years old. It only became a union though 0:08:53.920 --> 0:08:59.480 about fifty years ago then. So the RCN is both 0:08:59.520 --> 0:09:02.960 the union and a professional body in that okay. It 0:09:03.120 --> 0:09:10.280 also does stuff around developing, developing nursing best practice, research 0:09:10.360 --> 0:09:12.600 and that kind of thing, and that's what it existed 0:09:12.600 --> 0:09:18.640 as originally. So yeah, like a like a professional association. Yeah, okay, exactly, 0:09:18.679 --> 0:09:21.960 And so it still has a dual structure of its 0:09:22.040 --> 0:09:26.240 union side, it's professional body side that like develops nursing 0:09:26.280 --> 0:09:29.160 practice and stuff like that. Yeah. Well, I guess, I guess. 0:09:29.200 --> 0:09:31.440 I guess that that raises the sort of question of like, 0:09:31.840 --> 0:09:36.320 like what was so like unbelievably like what what what 0:09:36.320 --> 0:09:40.600 what happened like such that for the first time in 0:09:40.640 --> 0:09:43.240 like one hundred and whatever years, they finally went on strike. 0:09:43.960 --> 0:09:48.199 So it's partially amount of breaking points. The nursing turnover 0:09:48.200 --> 0:09:52.720 in the UK's absolute dog shit um. Thousands of people 0:09:52.800 --> 0:09:56.440 leave the profession every year. There's this massive pay cut 0:09:56.440 --> 0:09:58.680 that's happened over the last ten years. Nurse and nursing 0:09:58.720 --> 0:10:03.760 was always underpaid in the UK. To be frank, there's 0:10:03.800 --> 0:10:06.920 also then there was the cut in the nursing bursary 0:10:07.679 --> 0:10:11.120 about five years ago. So it used to be the 0:10:11.120 --> 0:10:13.480 government would pay for you to train as a nurse. 0:10:14.440 --> 0:10:18.719 It would also give you not not like enough to 0:10:18.760 --> 0:10:20.680 be equivalent of the ways of the work you were doing. 0:10:21.120 --> 0:10:23.680 Nursing in the UK has a far higher amount of 0:10:23.679 --> 0:10:26.400 practice hours than it does in the US. I believe 0:10:26.440 --> 0:10:27.880 it's part of the degree and like a lot of 0:10:27.880 --> 0:10:31.160 that time you're sensedly working as a as a hate 0:10:31.160 --> 0:10:35.600 c A or CNA as you'd say in America. Can 0:10:35.640 --> 0:10:38.600 you explain what that is for people who don't know 0:10:39.000 --> 0:10:44.920 like medical stuff, so hate a healthcare assistant or what 0:10:45.040 --> 0:10:48.640 was it CNA certified nursing assistant. I think what stands 0:10:48.679 --> 0:10:55.160 for is essentially a healthcare worker who does a range 0:10:55.200 --> 0:10:58.720 of like what you describe as nursing tasks button but 0:11:00.160 --> 0:11:04.640 not the role of a registered nurse. So they would 0:11:04.640 --> 0:11:11.439 assist with mobilizing patients, monitoring observations hygiene, potentially taking bloods, 0:11:11.440 --> 0:11:14.360 and some investigations such as setting up an ECG, but 0:11:14.400 --> 0:11:19.160 they wouldn't do more advanced investigations ristanizement, care planning, medication management, 0:11:20.600 --> 0:11:24.240 assessing of patients and that kind of stuff. So yeah, 0:11:24.280 --> 0:11:26.960 like about five years ago, the nursing bursary was cut, 0:11:27.480 --> 0:11:30.400 so then it's became as with every other degree having 0:11:30.440 --> 0:11:33.440 to take out a student loan in order to pursue it. 0:11:34.600 --> 0:11:38.839 And then in twenty eighteen there was a particularly disastrous 0:11:38.880 --> 0:11:42.040 pay deal where the RCM in a number of ways 0:11:42.040 --> 0:11:45.520 just absolutely fun. Not just the RCM, the other healthcare 0:11:45.600 --> 0:11:50.400 unions representing unions representing healthcare workers also messed up hutely, 0:11:51.720 --> 0:11:55.760 but like they really fumbled the ball. It resulted arguably 0:11:55.840 --> 0:11:59.160 some people describe it as the leadership setting out the membership. 0:12:00.640 --> 0:12:05.000 And then after that there was a general, an emergency 0:12:05.040 --> 0:12:08.720 general meeting called the RCM wh's resulted in the entire 0:12:08.760 --> 0:12:14.680 executive being booted. Wow um around this type leading up 0:12:14.720 --> 0:12:20.040 to that, they're being like increasing like grassroots militancy around nurses. 0:12:20.760 --> 0:12:24.760 Recognizing that this was an awful situation, we were in there. 0:12:24.960 --> 0:12:29.800 This also then resulted in like there were various grassroots 0:12:29.920 --> 0:12:33.800 campaigns started, such as like a Nurses United UK. We 0:12:33.960 --> 0:12:38.560 started employing organizing the UK to like act to take nurses. 0:12:38.600 --> 0:12:40.440 There was a concerted effort to put presses on the 0:12:40.520 --> 0:12:43.080 RCM by like I would say, a radical minority, but 0:12:43.160 --> 0:12:48.400 one that represented like a general general feeling among nurses 0:12:48.400 --> 0:12:50.840 on the on the front line to push for the 0:12:50.920 --> 0:12:53.520 RCN to take a more radical stance. Then at the 0:12:53.559 --> 0:12:55.760 same time, I don't know if this was covered in 0:12:55.840 --> 0:13:00.840 your talk in about English politics you're to our deep dive, 0:13:01.440 --> 0:13:08.000 But Northern Ireland didn't have a government at this point 0:13:08.520 --> 0:13:11.360 because as they are now, the DUP and chin Fain 0:13:11.440 --> 0:13:16.040 had fallen out and legally it has to be both 0:13:16.080 --> 0:13:18.920 of them together as the largest republican and largest unionist 0:13:19.000 --> 0:13:23.360 party Unionists in pro the United Kingdom Party after former government, 0:13:23.600 --> 0:13:29.160 which meant it was impossible legally for any for any 0:13:29.160 --> 0:13:31.640 pay rise in the NHS in Northern Ireland at that time, 0:13:32.400 --> 0:13:34.480 so there was not a government that could legally enact 0:13:34.520 --> 0:13:40.800 one great and this was and this resulted in the 0:13:41.240 --> 0:13:48.000 twenty nineteen the first strikes by the RCM. Ever, and 0:13:48.080 --> 0:13:50.560 also like the first nursing strikes in the NHS in 0:13:50.600 --> 0:13:52.800 a very long time. I might be wrong about this. 0:13:52.840 --> 0:13:54.520 I think the last ones were like in the eighties 0:13:54.600 --> 0:13:56.920 or the seventies. I might I might be wrong about 0:13:56.960 --> 0:13:59.800 this though. And this was both called by the r 0:14:00.320 --> 0:14:03.120 and one of the other biggest trade unions in the 0:14:04.120 --> 0:14:06.840 probably the biggest trade union as it's a generalist trade 0:14:06.920 --> 0:14:10.280 union in the NHS Unison. They both called strikes at 0:14:10.320 --> 0:14:15.080 this time and they were significant factor in getting the 0:14:15.120 --> 0:14:18.160 Northern Ireland government back meeting alongside other things. I'm not 0:14:18.160 --> 0:14:19.920 going to give ourselves all the credit, but it was 0:14:19.920 --> 0:14:22.640 a significant factor. It off it gets overlooked and actually 0:14:22.640 --> 0:14:24.720 having any pay eyes and acted the tool on the 0:14:25.320 --> 0:14:28.200 in Northern Ireland just to clear for every second this 0:14:28.400 --> 0:14:31.080 strike was a specifically like a strike that was happening 0:14:31.120 --> 0:14:34.560 for nurses norther in Ireland. Yeah, in twenty nineteen. I 0:14:34.560 --> 0:14:37.840 think it's very important. I think that triggered something that 0:14:37.960 --> 0:14:40.160 she see changed in the RCNA. That was kind of 0:14:40.160 --> 0:14:43.760 the culminating point of like trying to push for a 0:14:43.840 --> 0:14:48.160 more militant attitude on the RCN. And it really like 0:14:48.360 --> 0:14:50.680 broke the thug gates open and made what's happening now 0:14:50.760 --> 0:14:56.000 possible even though a lot of nurses in England particularly, 0:14:56.000 --> 0:14:57.920 I can't come on on the situation in Wales on 0:14:57.960 --> 0:14:59.920 Northern Ireland, like how much people know about you by 0:15:00.040 --> 0:15:02.200 what was going on, But like a lot of use 0:15:02.320 --> 0:15:04.360 in England didn't even know about it. And when I 0:15:04.400 --> 0:15:07.040 was going around the wards pushing for people to vote 0:15:07.120 --> 0:15:09.680 in favor of the strike action, a lot of people 0:15:09.760 --> 0:15:12.560 didn't weren't aware that that had been a thing that 0:15:12.560 --> 0:15:16.000 had happened until I told them about it. Because people 0:15:16.040 --> 0:15:20.040 in England, as Moss, as England is determined to keep 0:15:20.120 --> 0:15:23.040 Northern Ireland, don't know what's going on, and not into 0:15:23.040 --> 0:15:28.280 any degree to a terrifying degree. Sometimes I would say, yeah, 0:15:28.280 --> 0:15:31.440 that that sounds like it sounds like a thing that 0:15:31.560 --> 0:15:35.400 happens when you're a colonial power, et cetera, et cetera. Well, 0:15:35.640 --> 0:15:38.480 like I mean like like there was I feel like, well, 0:15:38.720 --> 0:15:41.040 our equivalent isn't the right term. But like around the 0:15:41.120 --> 0:15:44.080 same time, like people in Puerto Rico like ran out 0:15:44.080 --> 0:15:46.600 their government and almost no one in the US, like 0:15:47.800 --> 0:15:50.360 like in the commental US has like ever heard of it. 0:15:51.200 --> 0:15:58.000 So yeah, yeah, I would say if yeah, if there's 0:15:58.080 --> 0:16:01.240 not bombs going off in Northern Ireland, people in England 0:16:01.280 --> 0:16:04.920 not paying attention. I would say, yeah, that makes sense, 0:16:04.960 --> 0:16:08.480 and it's also really depressing. Yeah, I would like I 0:16:08.480 --> 0:16:11.040 would say Norman Islands in the sub maybe in some ways, 0:16:11.040 --> 0:16:13.280 and the bets in Puerto Rico in that it actually 0:16:13.360 --> 0:16:17.760 has a degree of political representation in the main in 0:16:17.800 --> 0:16:21.800 the Westminster and starts, even though obviously should have its 0:16:21.840 --> 0:16:27.320 independence and might, but yeah, doesn't even have that as 0:16:27.320 --> 0:16:31.200 my understanding. Yeah, And I mean there's a whole there's 0:16:31.200 --> 0:16:33.400 a there's a whole thing there, Like the Puerto Rican 0:16:33.400 --> 0:16:38.280 statehood people are like weird reactionaries. The independence people are cooler. 0:16:38.320 --> 0:16:41.480 But also there's this whole sort of I don't know, 0:16:41.680 --> 0:16:45.680 there's there's a kind of like there's a kind of 0:16:45.680 --> 0:16:49.320 paralysis anywhere. It's like that, And it's like DC is 0:16:49.400 --> 0:16:51.720 kind of similar, where there's a whole sort of there's 0:16:51.760 --> 0:16:53.960 this kind of paralysis where like nothing's ever going to 0:16:53.960 --> 0:16:56.320 be done about it other than the US just like 0:16:56.880 --> 0:17:00.080 basically imposing whatever random colonial governor that they've just I 0:17:00.120 --> 0:17:03.680 did to bring in as an emergency manager or whatever. Yes, sorrkay, 0:17:03.680 --> 0:17:05.840 but we are getting we are getting far afield from 0:17:05.840 --> 0:17:10.520 it as before I put yet yeah, something about Nomanala 0:17:10.600 --> 0:17:16.280 that will piss off everyone. Yeah, it's like I didn't 0:17:16.280 --> 0:17:23.000 even know even less about Bulscott about Puerto Rico. Yeah yeah, 0:17:23.040 --> 0:17:26.720 I would also say okay, like so so so people 0:17:26.760 --> 0:17:29.200 don't get mad at me, Like all of the US 0:17:29.359 --> 0:17:34.000 is a quality. It's like the substitute of difference between 0:17:34.119 --> 0:17:37.000 New York and Hawaii and Puerto Rico was when like 0:17:37.320 --> 0:17:42.120 when when we took it over. But yeah, yeah, okay, 0:17:42.119 --> 0:17:44.560 so we're we're turning to we're turning actually well you know, okay, 0:17:44.760 --> 0:17:47.240 all right, I will I will take this complete interruption 0:17:47.280 --> 0:17:49.200 of the flows as a point to do an ad break. 0:17:49.720 --> 0:17:52.480 So do you know what else is an extensive colonial 0:17:52.480 --> 0:17:58.959 power that who's might cannot be checked. It's it's the 0:17:58.960 --> 0:18:13.480 products and services that support this podcast. Yea, all right, 0:18:13.520 --> 0:18:16.640 and we are back. Yeah. So I wanted to move 0:18:16.960 --> 0:18:19.000 from the Northern Ireland strikes to talk about the sort 0:18:19.000 --> 0:18:21.119 of broader strikes that I've been happening in the last 0:18:21.840 --> 0:18:26.440 like my understanding about a year or so, yes, okay, yeah, yeah, 0:18:26.720 --> 0:18:30.160 is it going longer than that? Yeah, we talk about 0:18:30.160 --> 0:18:33.159 like you it's like what happens to move from the 0:18:33.200 --> 0:18:37.040 Northern Ireland strikes to the current situation. So do you 0:18:37.040 --> 0:18:42.920 mean with specifically NHS strikes or like in the UK, 0:18:43.160 --> 0:18:45.080 specifically with the NHS strikes. But I guess we can 0:18:45.080 --> 0:18:46.920 talk about the broader wave if you want to too. 0:18:48.720 --> 0:18:55.560 So obviously all the ship with COVID happened, Yeah, and 0:18:55.600 --> 0:18:58.639 then we came to the payoffer of last year, and 0:18:58.680 --> 0:19:01.680 at this point they've been general building of an attitude 0:19:01.760 --> 0:19:04.440 that we don't just need a decent pay rise that 0:19:04.520 --> 0:19:07.119 keeps up inflation, we need one that goes towards restoring 0:19:07.480 --> 0:19:15.600 lost pay. And the RCM leadership after the kicking out 0:19:15.640 --> 0:19:20.320 of the entire executive in twenty eighteen kind of on 0:19:20.359 --> 0:19:23.280 the back foot, kind of like wanting to a piece 0:19:23.280 --> 0:19:25.919 the membership go along with it a bit more. Also, 0:19:26.000 --> 0:19:28.800 we had knew General Secretary Pat Colin, who was the 0:19:29.040 --> 0:19:32.760 secretary of the Northern Ireland section of the RCM during 0:19:33.119 --> 0:19:39.199 this Northern Island strikes, took a more militant position in 0:19:39.280 --> 0:19:41.919 the pain negotion in the joint union pain negotiations with 0:19:42.000 --> 0:19:45.480 the government towards the end towards the beginning of last year, 0:19:46.720 --> 0:19:52.000 where the RCN took a position of we need inflation 0:19:52.119 --> 0:19:57.600 plus five percent. Now this is a bit of an 0:19:57.640 --> 0:20:00.720 inside baseball which like I don't think I've ever seen 0:20:00.800 --> 0:20:04.240 like officially, but what I know from various people involved 0:20:04.240 --> 0:20:06.200 in these things and like statements by different unions, what 0:20:06.280 --> 0:20:09.080 my understanding it is the biggest of the trade unions 0:20:09.080 --> 0:20:13.600 in the NHS in general. The Unison put forward line 0:20:13.640 --> 0:20:18.240 it was only willing to go for a generic significantly 0:20:18.280 --> 0:20:22.399 better than inflation pay ballot of like pay demand from 0:20:22.440 --> 0:20:27.320 the government, which the RCM was due to like changing 0:20:27.359 --> 0:20:29.440 attitude of its membership of what happened when it accepted 0:20:29.640 --> 0:20:31.960 ship a bad deal last time, was not willing to 0:20:32.000 --> 0:20:35.520 go for and a result of the RCM splitting from 0:20:35.600 --> 0:20:39.320 the Joint Union Like Pay Council like the Joint Union 0:20:39.359 --> 0:20:45.720 Council over this issue, which then the offer the government's 0:20:45.760 --> 0:20:49.000 pay thing came in. It said we will do a 0:20:49.080 --> 0:20:55.240 flat one thousand, four hundred for everyone, like on all bands, 0:20:55.240 --> 0:20:58.439 so not a percentage like it normally does. And you know, 0:20:58.520 --> 0:21:00.600 to be honest, if it was a significantly higher amount 0:21:00.600 --> 0:21:03.359 that was bigger than inflation for the lower bands, like 0:21:03.440 --> 0:21:06.480 the lower paid works in the NHS, wouldn't be the 0:21:06.520 --> 0:21:09.360 worst thing in the world. But this one thousand, four 0:21:09.400 --> 0:21:13.480 hundred isn't good enough for anyone. And while I'm talking 0:21:13.480 --> 0:21:16.639 about this, I'm talking about specifically in England. It was 0:21:16.680 --> 0:21:20.480 slightly different in Wales and Scotland. I think generally slightly better, 0:21:20.520 --> 0:21:23.160 but still far lower than it should have been, than 0:21:23.200 --> 0:21:26.199 it needs to be. And so the RCM was the 0:21:26.280 --> 0:21:30.000 first of the unions in the NHS to say it 0:21:30.040 --> 0:21:33.920 was balloting, it was doing a paid ballot, and this 0:21:35.920 --> 0:21:39.000 kind of sprung on the other unions, like a week, 0:21:39.119 --> 0:21:41.480 two weeks, three weeks later all said that they were 0:21:41.520 --> 0:21:44.800 doing it as well. The RCM also at the same 0:21:44.840 --> 0:21:49.320 time hired a load of organized like paid organizers to 0:21:49.440 --> 0:21:54.479 support the paid ballot effort. And what I'll say is 0:21:54.480 --> 0:21:59.240 obviously paid organizers. There no substitute for rank and files militancy. 0:22:00.520 --> 0:22:04.080 But it was very helpful, to be honest, because I 0:22:04.080 --> 0:22:06.080 think there was a lot of like milited, a lot 0:22:06.080 --> 0:22:10.920 of milited sentiment of the RCM. But although there were 0:22:11.040 --> 0:22:13.840 some like rank and file initiatives which had had a 0:22:13.880 --> 0:22:17.320 massive impact on like pushing the RCM to a stronger position, 0:22:18.760 --> 0:22:21.440 I don't I don't think that could have materialized, and 0:22:21.480 --> 0:22:23.639 there wasn't enough people like actually who had an idea 0:22:23.680 --> 0:22:26.200 about organizing, about what it meant to go out and 0:22:26.240 --> 0:22:28.040 push through this kind of thing to get what we 0:22:28.080 --> 0:22:30.960 needed in that time frame. Sadly I wish that wasn't 0:22:30.960 --> 0:22:34.160 the case, but I do think these paid organizers much 0:22:34.320 --> 0:22:37.080 is not what I think the correct model for workplace 0:22:37.160 --> 0:22:42.120 organizing is did help a lot, and this then resulted 0:22:42.160 --> 0:22:45.879 in the RCM strike ballot passing in one hundred and 0:22:45.960 --> 0:22:53.320 seventy six NHS trusts across the UK. Let me just yeah, 0:22:53.400 --> 0:22:57.760 check that I've got that right, yeah, which is huge. 0:22:57.880 --> 0:23:02.520 It's not all, but it is. It's over fifty percent. 0:23:03.800 --> 0:23:08.920 It's pretty much all trusts in Scotland, all trust in Scotland, 0:23:08.920 --> 0:23:11.640 all trusts in Northern Ireland, I think all bar one 0:23:12.040 --> 0:23:17.640 or two in Wales, and the majority in England. It's 0:23:17.640 --> 0:23:20.479 also worth pointing out the ones that didn't pass it. 0:23:20.960 --> 0:23:25.560 They didn't pass by less than a percentage. Wow, they 0:23:25.640 --> 0:23:29.720 felt they didn't pass by like pen votes in all cases. 0:23:30.200 --> 0:23:32.480 I think the one in Wales that didn't pass it 0:23:32.520 --> 0:23:36.159 was literally by three votes. And it's also worked with 0:23:36.600 --> 0:23:39.160 I think in two thousand and sixteen or two fifteen, 0:23:39.960 --> 0:23:43.440 anti union legislation was passed by the Conservative government, which 0:23:43.600 --> 0:23:46.840 raised the bar you need in order to have to 0:23:47.359 --> 0:23:53.800 have legal strike industrial action, and under the law as 0:23:53.840 --> 0:23:57.159 it existed a decade ago, every NHS trust that the 0:23:57.280 --> 0:24:05.040 RCM ballot didn't would have passed the ballot. Also unfortunate timing. 0:24:05.720 --> 0:24:07.520 It was happening at the same time as the posts, 0:24:07.560 --> 0:24:12.320 as postal strikes were happening, and in the UK industrial 0:24:12.600 --> 0:24:15.400 ballots for industrial actions to be legal have to happen 0:24:15.440 --> 0:24:26.359 by post A little bit sad. Yeah, it's like timing, guys. Yeah, 0:24:27.080 --> 0:24:32.160 full power to you. Oh god, I wish the timing 0:24:32.160 --> 0:24:37.560 it slightly different. Yeah. Yeah. And of all the of 0:24:37.600 --> 0:24:39.959 all the trust, of all the unions in the art, 0:24:40.240 --> 0:24:42.800 in the NHS that were passing ballots, the RCM was 0:24:42.840 --> 0:24:46.760 the most successful. We passed it in significantly more places 0:24:47.800 --> 0:24:51.280 than other unions did. Um to my shock, to be honest, 0:24:51.520 --> 0:24:54.159 because like when I was going around balloting or like 0:24:54.320 --> 0:24:57.000 um talking to people, like on my days off, like 0:24:57.040 --> 0:24:59.359 going on the wards talking talk to people while I 0:24:59.440 --> 0:25:02.600 was at work, Everyone's like, yes it was in other unions, 0:25:02.640 --> 0:25:05.240 like yes, I'm voting for it. I'm waiting on tender 0:25:05.280 --> 0:25:07.280