Speaker 1: My name is Clay Nukeleman. This is a production of
Speaker 1: the Bear Grease podcast called The Bear Grease Render where
Speaker 1: we render down, dive deeper, and look behind the scenes
Speaker 1: of the actual bear Grease podcast, presented by f h
Speaker 1: F Gear, American Maid, purpose built hunting and fishing gear
Speaker 1: that's designed to be as rugged as the place. As
Speaker 1: we explore, this is a great debate what to do
Speaker 1: right now. We do we stay in the heated conversation,
Speaker 1: very interesting conversation we were having, but we would have
Speaker 1: to inform the listeners what we're talking to. Or do
Speaker 1: we just start off? Who's here? Hard to say.
Speaker 2: It's a roll of the dice.
Speaker 1: I'm going to start off, and we're going to go
Speaker 1: in the middle. So I've got to my right and
Speaker 1: I'm going to introduce him first, then I'll introduce the others.
Speaker 2: This is weird going the street, Yeah it is.
Speaker 1: But in the Tacovis hot seat is my friend Kaylen Balians.
Speaker 1: You guys just entered into like right in the middle
Speaker 1: of our conversation of when, like when was it October
Speaker 1: the third?
Speaker 3: Probably?
Speaker 1: I think I think Kaylin and I were bear hunting
Speaker 1: on October the third, and he killed a really nice bear.
Speaker 1: I mean it was i'd say three point fifty. What
Speaker 1: did you think? What did we think? I can't really
Speaker 1: remember what we settled on.
Speaker 3: I think you said for sure three twenty five.
Speaker 1: So, okay, a big old boar killed in National Forest.
Speaker 1: Just we just went hunting for a day and a half,
Speaker 1: and so we skined this bear in the woods, quartered
Speaker 1: it up, basically left you know, a gut pile, the
Speaker 1: hip structure. I mean, I mean, you know, like the
Speaker 1: pelvis and stuff in some of the rib cage, big
Speaker 1: pile of bear. Though, left that bear and I came back,
Speaker 1: maybe even just five days later, and you could not
Speaker 1: have told that we skin that bear other than just
Speaker 1: some you know, the leaves. It was just kind of
Speaker 1: a beat down, greasy pile. But this is what I
Speaker 1: was about to tell you when these people interrupted us
Speaker 1: by turning the podcast on. Was there was bear trails
Speaker 1: coming in from two directions to that carcass pile, like
Speaker 1: padded out, like where they were stepping in the same
Speaker 1: tracks like they do. And I don't know why I
Speaker 1: didn't think about it, but I bet we could have
Speaker 1: killed another bear sitting on that carcass probably days later, yeah.
Speaker 3: Yeah, probably the one that runs him out of woods.
Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, So when what happened? I mean, go ahead
Speaker 1: and you can just kind of quickly tell, like you're hunting,
Speaker 1: and what happened?
Speaker 4: You know, Basically I walked into a bear fight and
Speaker 4: I didn't know it. Yeah yeah, I heard the the
Speaker 4: racket going on down there, and I knew it was
Speaker 4: a bear, but I did not know what was going on.
Speaker 1: Were you hearing him vocalize or just leaves crunching and popping?
Speaker 4: No, I could hear that. I could hear the vocalization.
Speaker 4: Yeah yeah, I don't know what sound you call that, but.
Speaker 1: Just woofing and chattering and huffing.
Speaker 3: Yeah yeah.
Speaker 4: So I eased down there to get a closer look,
Speaker 4: which I could just see the one bear, but it
Speaker 4: was like postured up. He got the coming off into
Speaker 4: that little draw blow me, you know where the water
Speaker 4: was at, and I just let him come. He got
Speaker 4: about twenty and I shot him, almost run me over,
Speaker 4: come right up out at men. I just turned behind
Speaker 4: my tree and let him go by.
Speaker 1: How close do you think he actually got to you bear? Really?
Speaker 1: Five ft?
Speaker 3: Oh? Yeah?
Speaker 1: Yeah, So what happened is Kaylin's I saw right where
Speaker 1: it all happened. You know, he is this little there's
Speaker 1: a dry creek bed and then there's a steep bank
Speaker 1: that kind of goes up on a little mini ridge
Speaker 1: kind of, so it's almost like you're in a tree
Speaker 1: stand in a way, and you're shooting kind of down
Speaker 1: at an angle. And I think your era passed through
Speaker 1: that bear and hit the rocks on the other side
Speaker 1: of him. That scared him so that the threat was
Speaker 1: from the opposite side.
Speaker 3: Where the other bear was at.
Speaker 1: Okay, that's where we're getting But the bear turned and
Speaker 1: ran straight towards the shot, right because you know, the
Speaker 1: ear clacking on the rocks was bigger than the sound
Speaker 1: of the bow.
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, closer. Yeah, And he didn't know I was
Speaker 3: anywhere around, so right, yeah.
Speaker 1: But he just shoots straight up at you.
Speaker 4: Oh yeah, I shoot and re should get another arrow.
Speaker 4: Well before I can get the other arrow, I look
Speaker 4: up and he's there. I mean, he's already on me.
Speaker 4: So I just rolled behind a tree and he goes by,
Speaker 4: and he makes a little loop and runs right back
Speaker 4: to where he right shot him. Matt, he at the
Speaker 4: other side of little waist, didn't he hell run up
Speaker 4: the other side. Yeah, and yeah, I watched him die. Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 4: he just ar it up, fell over death Moon, and
Speaker 4: I thought it was over.
Speaker 3: I got.
Speaker 4: Probably twenty yards of him maybe, and just crouched down
Speaker 4: waiting for him to die. I got to hear in
Speaker 4: another racket, the same vocalization whatever you call that.
Speaker 1: At this point, you've only seen one bear. Yeah, you
Speaker 1: don't think you knew you heard potentially like what sounded
Speaker 1: like a fight, but you didn't know there were two bears.
Speaker 3: Right, Yeah?
Speaker 4: So I glanced up on the hill and here comes
Speaker 4: one bigger than the one I just shot. And he's
Speaker 4: coming to that bear I shot. He doesn't know him
Speaker 4: around either, So I let him get down to the bear,
Speaker 4: but I stand up first.
Speaker 3: Just wave. That doesn't do it.
Speaker 4: He kind of glanced at me, kept coming, so then
Speaker 4: I yelled at him. That didn't do it. He's still coming.
Speaker 4: So I threw a rock at him, and he finally
Speaker 4: turned and walked off.
Speaker 1: And you hit him with the rock?
Speaker 3: No, I didn't hit him. No.
Speaker 1: How close did he get to the dead bear?
Speaker 3: Ten or fifteen feet? I mean he was pretty well
Speaker 3: to him? Wow?
Speaker 2: Yeah, was he going to fight more?
Speaker 3: I think so? Yeah, that's it. I waited to see
Speaker 3: what happened.
Speaker 1: Yeah, what were you thinking, man?
Speaker 4: That this bear has just whipped this three hundred and
Speaker 4: twenty five pound bear, so I know he can whip me,
Speaker 4: and he's staying on you're a logger. He's still mad.
Speaker 4: So yeah, after he wasn't really leaving, I left.
Speaker 3: I just went to the truck.
Speaker 1: Okay, now, okay, so you chunk of rock at him
Speaker 1: and what does he do?
Speaker 3: Oh?
Speaker 4: He just kind of side heels and he drops off
Speaker 4: back end of that creek where I just shot that one,
Speaker 4: and then comes to He didn't run.
Speaker 3: Oh no, he come up on my side and he's
Speaker 3: circling me.
Speaker 1: Oh wow. Yeah, yeah, I knew that. I knew that,
Speaker 1: but it's like it's like he didn't. He didn't spook
Speaker 1: like you would have thought. You would have thought the
Speaker 1: second he knew there was a man standing there that
Speaker 1: he would have just Yeah.
Speaker 4: I thought he would know from the bears that I've
Speaker 4: been around, and he didn't encountered.
Speaker 3: I thought.
Speaker 4: As soon as he realized you know there's a human here,
Speaker 4: he's he's gone.
Speaker 3: But no, no, he didn't.
Speaker 1: Like how much bigger was he than the one you shot.
Speaker 3: Notice he was noticeably bigger.
Speaker 1: I mean, liked make you think the one you shot
Speaker 1: was small.
Speaker 3: Well, I mean not small.
Speaker 4: I knew it wasn't a small bear, but huh, but
Speaker 4: first glance, I said, oh my gosh, I mean this
Speaker 4: bear is quite a bit larger than one of you.
Speaker 3: Shows.
Speaker 1: Well, I remember so well you I.
Speaker 3: Told you it looked like a boltswagen coming off the hill.
Speaker 1: Yes, well, but it also it painted my perception of
Speaker 1: how big the bear that you killed was. Because Kaylan
Speaker 1: shoots the bear, it's laying there dead, but this other
Speaker 1: bear is circling and he just goes, I'm out of here.
Speaker 1: So he dives off the mountain and goes back to
Speaker 1: the truck and I'm still off hunting. Don't have cell
Speaker 1: coverage or well no, I didn't where I was at.
Speaker 1: I come out well after dark, well after dark, and
Speaker 1: Kaylen goes, I got good news and bad news, and
Speaker 1: he's like, I killed a bear, but it's still up
Speaker 1: in the mountain, on the side of the mountain, you know,
Speaker 1: and it's like, I don't know, it's getting dark at
Speaker 1: seven thirty that time of year, and so now it's
Speaker 1: eight o'clock and you know.
Speaker 4: It's more like nine o'clock probably probably how far back
Speaker 4: in was it.
Speaker 3: It wasn't terrible.
Speaker 1: It really wasn't that far from the truck. It was
Speaker 1: quite a bit of elevation change.
Speaker 3: But I had been a whole lot further that day.
Speaker 1: Yeah, he had made a huge loop and killed it
Speaker 1: on the way back to the truck. But I remember
Speaker 1: you telling me that you just thought it was an
Speaker 1: average bear. That's kind of what I or the picture
Speaker 1: that I painted because of this other one was so
Speaker 1: much bigger. And I actually remember telling you I bet
Speaker 1: you shot a sal yeah, and and I bet you
Speaker 1: shot the smaller of two, because I couldn't figure out
Speaker 1: why there would be two even together. And I said,
Speaker 1: I bet you shot a soal, and that other one
Speaker 1: was just a decent boar. And so we go up
Speaker 1: there in the dark, and the second I see his
Speaker 1: bear in the light, I just go, holy cow, that's
Speaker 1: a big bear you shot, Kaylen. I mean it's like,
Speaker 1: oh yeah, I mean Stomper. I mean it might have.
Speaker 1: I mean we were I really try to be conservative
Speaker 1: with bear weights because it's so easy just to be like,
Speaker 1: oh that's a four hundred pounder. It was a big bear,
Speaker 1: and it, no doubt weighed three twenty five. I mean
Speaker 1: probably three twenty five. Three seventy five wouldn't surprise me,
Speaker 1: you know. So, I mean a piggin and the picture
Speaker 1: you could tell how Biggie is because it's paws are enormous.
Speaker 1: I didn't even see the bear, but I could tell
Speaker 1: the picture good bear well. And then cal he had
Speaker 1: just been whipped by this other bear, that's right, And
Speaker 1: and the bear looked so big. I mean, when you
Speaker 1: can tell a difference, I mean a fifty pound difference
Speaker 1: between two bears standing side by side, you almost can't
Speaker 1: tell the difference, right, like they would almost look identical.
Speaker 1: One hundred pound difference. You'd start to see a difference,
Speaker 1: one hundred and fifty pound difference, and it's like that
Speaker 1: bears way bigger. But I mean, I think I think
Speaker 1: it was a monster, the other one. I mean, you're
Speaker 1: the one with no.
Speaker 3: I never doubted it.
Speaker 4: He told me when he got back to the truck,
Speaker 4: and he's like, you ain't gonna believe what I just done.
Speaker 3: And I was just joking killing the nine. He said no,
Speaker 3: but I could have.
Speaker 4: And then he told me the whole story, and he
Speaker 4: said it he said that other bear was big.
Speaker 1: Yeah, well I was. Just as the podcast started, I
Speaker 1: told Kaylen, I said, man, I think about that all
Speaker 1: the time, and partly because me and bear went back
Speaker 1: in there five to seven days later, and it was
Speaker 1: it was as if a bear had never been in
Speaker 1: those woods. I mean, because that same day I had
Speaker 1: been over the mountain from you and had all but
Speaker 1: killed a bear. I mean, it was probably the closest
Speaker 1: I've been in national forest of killing a bear, but
Speaker 1: not killing it. I'm setting over a little water hole
Speaker 1: and you know, nine o'clock in the morning, I see
Speaker 1: a bear coming like straight to the water hole. Wind's good,
Speaker 1: everything's good. It's a color phase bear, real pretty color
Speaker 1: phase board wasn't very big. I bet it didn't weigh
Speaker 1: one hundred and ninety two hundred and ten pounds maybe,
Speaker 1: I mean, just lanky, kind of tall, but chocolate brown.
Speaker 1: And he's coming up this little dry creek to this
Speaker 1: little pool of water. And I'm in the same scenario
Speaker 1: as you up on the side of a steep ridge.
Speaker 1: I mean, it was a deep drawl like this on
Speaker 1: both sides, just straight up. He has no idea in there,
Speaker 1: He's walking winds thermals are carried up. I mean it's done.
Speaker 1: He's at twenty yards and I stand up and it's
Speaker 1: like I'm in a tree stand and he, I mean,
Speaker 1: he's just about to walk out in front of me,
Speaker 1: and i'd draw the bow back, and I don't know why,
Speaker 1: but rather than staying in the creek and going to
Speaker 1: that water hole, he just he just turns and starts
Speaker 1: going up the other side of the ridge from me.
Speaker 1: But he's gonna walk right out in front of me.
Speaker 1: I don't even panic. I'm just like, no problem, got
Speaker 1: the bow drawn, and I'm just waiting for an opening.
Speaker 1: And you know, he hits a couple openings that you
Speaker 1: probably could have shot, but you shouldn't. But I just
Speaker 1: knew he was gonna just stop in some opening up there,
Speaker 1: and anyway, he doesn't. He just he just walks straight
Speaker 1: up that mountain, and rather than veering towards the water hole,
Speaker 1: he starts to veer more just like straight up, and
Speaker 1: he just kind of like just just slips through my fingers,
Speaker 1: you know. And I sat there the entire rest of
Speaker 1: the day, entire rest of the day, and thirty minutes
Speaker 1: before dark, a bear came from the opposite. A black
Speaker 1: bear came from the opposite direction, and there was a
Speaker 1: whole water right in front of me. That was the
Speaker 1: main watering hole. Bear trails beat out to it. But
Speaker 1: thirty yards up from this main water was as real
Speaker 1: mall pull of water a bout his I mean like
Speaker 1: two inches three inches deep, just barely any water at all,
Speaker 1: and that bear, rather than coming the main hole, drank
Speaker 1: water out of that hole. And I saw him just
Speaker 1: kind of lift up his head and kind of look
Speaker 1: around and I could just barely see him, and I
Speaker 1: kind of stood up, and he just kind of sat
Speaker 1: there by that water for a minute and then just
Speaker 1: turned and walked away. Came and I tried to go
Speaker 1: after him, but anyway, it's a great day of hunting.
Speaker 1: Brought bear back in there, and we did the exact
Speaker 1: same hunt day and a half and didn't get didn't
Speaker 1: even see one, didn't I.
Speaker 4: Was that close to killing one thirty minutes after daylight. Yeah, Yeah,
Speaker 4: I saw three bear that one day.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 5: Wow, that was an unbelievable day of the forest bear hunting. Yeah,
Speaker 5: and then it just it just was gone. It just
Speaker 5: was completely gone.
Speaker 3: Quick.
Speaker 2: You're going to introduce the rest of us.
Speaker 1: Well, that concludes the podcast for the day. This is
Speaker 1: a unique render. We have the the guys that were
Speaker 1: on the last episode, American loggers, Kaylin vi Lines. This
Speaker 1: is the Kalyn Lines that told was was main player
Speaker 1: on that to his right, wild eyed?
Speaker 2: How'd you feel about that description?
Speaker 1: Oh man, I'm so glad you guys are here. The
Speaker 1: Josh is here. And then the one who is going
Speaker 1: to validate, validate or invalidate all these stories, the older
Speaker 1: brother of Kaylin Whalon Lines, who I'm told their father
Speaker 1: tried to name them Whalen and Willie, so Kaylan would
Speaker 1: have been Willy, that would have been happening, but their
Speaker 1: mother shut it down.
Speaker 3: That was always no.
Speaker 1: And then we got Barry DUKEM Bear, John nukelemb with us. Yep,
Speaker 1: so Bear brought a bow. He might show us, but no,
Speaker 1: it's pretty pretty rare for us to have the actual
Speaker 1: people that were on the episode. But I want to
Speaker 1: do something real quick before we get into the log
Speaker 1: and stuff. Is I've asked Bear to tell us a
Speaker 1: little bit about a couple of things that are going
Speaker 1: on that are relevant with conservation legislation. I want to
Speaker 1: be We're gonna try to be a little more active
Speaker 1: and the stuff that we all know that's going on,
Speaker 1: but like this boundary water stuff, and then there was
Speaker 1: one other thing going on in Mississippi. Give us a.
Speaker 5: Highlight of those bear Well, the boundary waters is the
Speaker 5: big event that I think everyone's been hearing about.
Speaker 1: But basically they're trying to make it to where.
Speaker 5: They're allowing foreign mining companies to come mine above the
Speaker 5: boundary waters and all the runoff of that is going
Speaker 5: to really affect the public land that we have access to.
Speaker 5: So overall it's a bad deal. We don't want it
Speaker 5: to happen. But through hunters and anglers calling in to
Speaker 5: their senators, they have postponed the basically the day that
Speaker 5: they decide whether or not they're going to allow it
Speaker 5: or not. So basically, through the voice of the hunters
Speaker 5: and anglers, that has has changed what's happening inside of
Speaker 5: the government systems. Yeah, because they were going to decide,
Speaker 5: I want to say it was two days ago.
Speaker 1: Yea, a couple days of February tenth or something.
Speaker 5: Yeah, And because of how many people were calling in
Speaker 5: and emailing their senators, they've postponed it because they're starting
Speaker 5: to see.
Speaker 2: That do we know a future date when they're supposed
Speaker 2: to decide that.
Speaker 1: I'm not sure. They just said they were going to
Speaker 1: do a more further analysis on the deal, and it'll
Speaker 1: come up again. It's come up. It comes up all
Speaker 1: the time, like every couple of years. Maybe maybe, I
Speaker 1: mean we were talking about this like a year ago.
Speaker 1: But the boundary waters are on the border between Canada
Speaker 1: and Minnesota. Yeah I think so, yeah, yeah, And uh
Speaker 1: but it's a it's a big, huge federal wilderness and
Speaker 1: uh yeah, I mean there's gonna be stuff like this
Speaker 1: coming up more and more.
Speaker 5: But yeah, but what we can take from this one
Speaker 5: is the fact that our voice inside of it actually
Speaker 5: changed so far, has actually changed to what's going on.
Speaker 5: So yeah, so keep calling and keep keep the pressure
Speaker 5: on the you.
Speaker 3: Know what I mean.
Speaker 1: It's like as we all know this, I mean that
Speaker 1: we hear it, but I mean, golly, we've just got
Speaker 1: to become more active in this stuff. And per For example,
Speaker 1: miss tell us about the Mississippi Bill, which has been
Speaker 1: kind of resolved, but it tells you what can happen.
Speaker 5: Yeah, Well, the attempt was to eradicate all hunting.
Speaker 1: With dogs in Mississippi.
Speaker 5: Unless unless it was on the private land that was
Speaker 5: two thousand acres of private land or bigger. That's the
Speaker 5: only that's the only land that you can hunt with
Speaker 5: dogs on. But that's including squirrel dogs, rabbit dogs, deer dogs,
Speaker 5: any any sort of dog hunting. And so they wanted
Speaker 5: to take it out because it was not fair chase,
Speaker 5: was the argument.
Speaker 1: They called it the the fair Chase. It was crazy.
Speaker 1: It was crazy what they called it. Uh do you bear?
Speaker 1: Do you remember what it was? Keep talking, keep talking,
Speaker 1: I'm gonna find it.
Speaker 3: Well.
Speaker 5: Yeah, basically, the the their point that they were trying
Speaker 5: to make was if you're hunting with dogs, that's not
Speaker 5: fair chase. It doesn't fall within the fair chase uh
Speaker 5: rules and guidelines. So but the good news on that
Speaker 5: one is is it got it got shut down.
Speaker 1: The bill is yeah, it was a House Bill eight
Speaker 1: twenty eight, and good news is it got shut down.
Speaker 1: But this just goes to show you these guys called
Speaker 1: it the Fair Chase Act, introduced to restrict hunting with dogs,
Speaker 1: limiting dog hunting to properties of over two thousand contiguous acres,
Speaker 1: which essentially would shut down dog hunting. You know, Yeah,
Speaker 1: no one has access to today private and you would
Speaker 1: feel like a state like Mississippi would be immune to this,
Speaker 1: and so far they've proven to be by the fact
Speaker 1: that the bill got shut down. But just the fact
Speaker 1: that that is even there just tells you that kind
Speaker 1: of stuff can happen anywhere.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 5: So, and what is important is that even though we
Speaker 5: don't have a lot to do, like with the with
Speaker 5: the Boundary Waters in particular, like we hardly even know
Speaker 5: what state that's in. I've never been to the Boundary Waters,
Speaker 5: but it's still important for me to call into the
Speaker 5: senators because it's the it's it's even if it's not
Speaker 5: relevant to you, it is because eventually it's gonna make
Speaker 5: it to you. If as they start to come for
Speaker 5: things at the bottom ring of the lighter, it's going
Speaker 5: to work its way up. So it's important to stop
Speaker 5: it now, calling into your senators now before it reaches you.
Speaker 1: When I started learning about bear hunting with hounds, specifically,
Speaker 1: the state I'm thinking of is Michigan. Like ten years ago,
Speaker 1: I did a did some filming for the Michigan Bear
Speaker 1: Hunters Association, and what I learned was that they just
Speaker 1: have built into their culture that you have to fight
Speaker 1: for your rights to hunt. Like their kids. It was
Speaker 1: like it wasn't even normal. It wasn't even abnormal that
Speaker 1: they had. They were just like politically active. It's just
Speaker 1: part of being a bear hunter. And I think more
Speaker 1: and more in the days ahead, that's probably gonna be
Speaker 1: what we have to do. Which I mean, as hunters,
Speaker 1: we're the people that just like want to people to
Speaker 1: just leave us alone. I mean, we're not the ones
Speaker 1: who are wanting to go get involved in stuff. That's
Speaker 1: our nature. But that's also the nature of people who
Speaker 1: get stuff taken away from.
Speaker 3: Them, you know.
Speaker 1: I mean, I'm talking to myself because I mean, but
Speaker 1: I think in the future we're just going to have
Speaker 1: to be more involved. And the good thing is that
Speaker 1: there's a ton of organizations that are helping people get involved.
Speaker 1: I mean, like on on social media, there were so
Speaker 1: many groups that were giving you the number to call
Speaker 1: the White House switchboard. Ye ask for your senator. It's
Speaker 1: that easy. I mean, like you call this number, say
Speaker 1: I want to talk to the Senator from Arkansas, and
Speaker 1: they take you directly to his office. Somebody answers the phone,
Speaker 1: you talk to him. I mean, sometimes you feel like
Speaker 1: that may not be enough and it and it may
Speaker 1: not be right. It's something so.
Speaker 2: I wrote, I wrote our when that whole thing was
Speaker 2: going through, I sent an email to our our senator,
Speaker 2: and I mean I got it. I got a response back,
Speaker 2: but uh, I mean it got to him, you know.
Speaker 1: I sent uh. I sent a little video to my
Speaker 1: senator and I took a piece of white sandwich bread
Speaker 1: and put it right here, and I put my fist
Speaker 1: there and I put another piece of sandwich bread on top,
Speaker 1: and I said, mister, mister Boseman, this is what I'm
Speaker 1: going to give you. If you'd vote wrongly for this,
Speaker 1: send a picture of that knuckle sandwich.
Speaker 2: I'm sure that was well received. Just just kidding, just
Speaker 2: kidding everyone. Yeah, don't indict him now.
Speaker 1: I don't want to pick off Bozeman. He's he's he's
Speaker 1: he's a good guy.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 4: Most people are like me. They they take for granted
Speaker 4: what we're, what we do. I don't my hunting with
Speaker 4: dogs or whatever, don't. I've never seen it hurting anything.
Speaker 4: And don't think nothing about it. You don't think about
Speaker 4: somebody taking it away and then next thing you know,
Speaker 4: you wake up and it's gone.
Speaker 3: Choice we've been through it.
Speaker 1: You guys have had it taken away.
Speaker 3: Yeah. Yeah, in my lifetime, I've seen it happen.
Speaker 1: Tell us about that, because I'm from the wash Tatas
Speaker 1: where we can still run deer with dogs and regardless
Speaker 1: of whether you think that's good or bad, yeah, I mean.
Speaker 3: But yeah, it's a touchy subject.
Speaker 4: But growing up, Dad always had beagles and we grew
Speaker 4: up hunting deer with the beagles. I mean, we didn't
Speaker 4: see it hurting anything, and the next thing you know,
Speaker 4: it got shut down.
Speaker 1: I mean in the late nineties.
Speaker 4: Yeah, I don't remember exactly what it was. I just
Speaker 4: know why I got to be part of it. And
Speaker 4: I mean Dad was always he was a dog man.
Speaker 4: He likes to take the dogs. And when they shut
Speaker 4: that down, Dad pretty much quit hunting until deer hunting anyways,
Speaker 4: until me and him got started riding a lot and
Speaker 4: doing it that way. But yeah, I mean he just
Speaker 4: got enjoyment out of he's dogs and doing it like that.
Speaker 4: But yeah, that was that was in the back of
Speaker 4: my mind when you was talking about that. Is like,
Speaker 4: I mean, we take for granted that just because we
Speaker 4: don't think it's hurting anything, these people out there that do,
Speaker 4: and if they got a bigger voice when most of
Speaker 4: the majority are like me, I feel that they're just
Speaker 4: going to sit back and think, well, we're not hurting
Speaker 4: anything and let it go and then well.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think it was the late nineties when they
Speaker 1: outlawed deer hunt with dogs in the northern part of
Speaker 1: the state. And as I understand it, it was the
Speaker 1: it was the pet project of one of the commissioners
Speaker 1: that lived up here and didn't like deer dogs and
Speaker 1: that he knew probably couldn't shut it down across the
Speaker 1: whole state, and he wanted it shut down in this
Speaker 1: part of the state. And I mean, you know, twenty
Speaker 1: five years later, people hardly talk about it.
Speaker 3: It was.
Speaker 6: For me it was more than hunting. My dad's always
Speaker 6: been a hand man, but mainly a running dog man. Uh,
Speaker 6: it was more than shooting deer. Yeah, it wasn't about
Speaker 6: shooting deer. I mean you were out there, Hume. It
Speaker 6: was a way of life.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 6: Deer season was like bigger than Christmas, way bigger than Christmas. Yeah,
Speaker 6: and it was I mean it was a chase. And
Speaker 6: you hear that all the time about anybody can kill
Speaker 6: one with a dog, go cry.
Speaker 4: Yeah, starting out the fair chase act. Yeah, you ain't
Speaker 4: never tried to kill it in front as I started
Speaker 4: hunting with dogs. That was just the way we hunted.
Speaker 3: Uh.
Speaker 6: I'm not saying I haven't killed a lot of deer
Speaker 6: in front of dogs. But when they outlawed the dogs
Speaker 6: and I had to start still hunting, uh, I was like,
Speaker 6: this is easy.
Speaker 1: Mm hmmm.
Speaker 3: I mean honestly, I thought it was easy.
Speaker 6: Well, I started bowl hunting a lot when they outlawed
Speaker 6: the dog deal.
Speaker 3: Uh.
Speaker 6: And at that time there wasn't The guys in our
Speaker 6: part of the world that bowl hunted were hardcore, but
Speaker 6: there wasn't that many of them, you know. Uh, an
Speaker 6: early season. Then it was easy with a bowl. I
Speaker 6: mean it was just easy. Yeah, compared to I said
Speaker 6: a walker hounds coming and there wasn't no matt and
Speaker 6: he stopped.
Speaker 3: When you've seen that.
Speaker 6: Sunner coming, you started shooting, and when you run out
Speaker 6: of shells, you either had it dead deer or they
Speaker 6: were gone.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 3: Uh that's been about. That was easy. Was it fun?
Speaker 3: Most fun ever had?
Speaker 1: Yeah?
Speaker 3: It was the best way of hunting.
Speaker 6: The camaraderie yeah, Uh, everybody ganging up at whoever's house
Speaker 6: it might be that morning, coming up with a playing,
Speaker 6: drinking coffee.
Speaker 3: It was more than hunting. It was a way of life.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 6: Uh and likewise and't said, you know, I would have
Speaker 6: been getting on up there as a teenager, didn't realize
Speaker 6: what we had until it was gone.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 4: Yeah, that all That's what runs through my mind when
Speaker 4: you was talking about that, just because there's more people
Speaker 4: like me that ain't going to say anything and wake
Speaker 4: up and what you should have been speaking up about's gone. Yeah,
Speaker 4: and it's too late then yep. So yes, I fully
Speaker 4: agree that people need to voice and it can change things.
Speaker 3: Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker 5: For anyone listening that's interested, you can find all the
Speaker 5: information you need to at back Country Hunters and Anglers.
Speaker 1: Yeah that's that's a good one. They've got all the
Speaker 1: info for how to get in touch with your senator.
Speaker 1: Mm hmm, well man this this uh Wenna say something, Josh.
Speaker 2: I also want to talk about the bear Grease channel.
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, channel, and we got talk about honest this
Speaker 2: new film.
Speaker 1: We're not gonna be able to talk about Loggin.
Speaker 3: Sorry, guys, I watched that video of the day.
Speaker 1: Hit our video many so we have so the ten years.
Speaker 1: Eleven years ago, I started the Bear Hunting Magazine YouTube channel.
Speaker 1: At the time I was running Bear Hunting Magazine, started
Speaker 1: a YouTube channel and we made videos for eight years.
Speaker 1: And that channel videos too.
Speaker 3: By the way, I.
Speaker 1: Started watching a few. Man almost had just drifted away
Speaker 1: from my consciousness for.
Speaker 3: Sure between the last one.
Speaker 1: And five years. For five years, the channel has laid dormant,
Speaker 1: and yesterday we restarted it back up and we renamed
Speaker 1: it the Bear Grease Channel. And so it's through meat Eater.
Speaker 1: I had some people saying, Hey, Claire, did you quit
Speaker 1: me Eater? No, I didn't quit meat Eater. This this
Speaker 1: is this is through them, which we're thrilled about. That's
Speaker 1: it's a good deal for us and for them.
Speaker 3: But he had had come along.
Speaker 1: Too, exactly well. And Bear's gonna be the main guy
Speaker 1: on the channel. This first video you saw, watch his
Speaker 1: videos anyway, me too, Man, me too. But there's gonna
Speaker 1: be weekly content dropped on that YouTube channel. And Bear's
Speaker 1: already got a bunch of really cool stuff that he's done. Yes,
Speaker 1: he killed a hog with a self bow, he elk hunted. Uh,
Speaker 1: he's been on a big falconry trip.
Speaker 5: I'm excited for the Falconry where we trapped some hawks
Speaker 5: in Texas.
Speaker 1: Legally, but it's but it's YouTube style content like the
Speaker 1: Meat Eater Mothership channel is like television type quality production
Speaker 1: and it's I mean, it's great, it's fantastic. This is
Speaker 1: like YouTube native, like fast paced, just like really showing
Speaker 1: you what's going on, less production, no music stuff like that,
Speaker 1: and so yeah, we're real excited about it.
Speaker 2: It's gonna be awesome.
Speaker 3: Yep. Yeah.
Speaker 1: So next week, well there's a there's a film out
Speaker 1: right now.
Speaker 5: Yeah, Squirrel Hunting on Mules came out yesterday. Well it'll
Speaker 5: by the time this podcast airs. There ought to be
Speaker 5: What do you think of his mule, Slow Trap?
Speaker 1: Kaylin? Do you see all that shoot?
Speaker 4: Pretty laid back, pretty laid back. I would trade you
Speaker 4: I have one what he got.
Speaker 1: I bet you would.
Speaker 4: Talk to me before he well he's three three yeah.
Speaker 1: And I mean that mule literally didn't even flinch the
Speaker 1: first I mean you saw it.
Speaker 3: I was surprised, But the one he was talking about
Speaker 3: I shut off him. So oh it might be.
Speaker 1: So the backstory, now you remember this, I was going
Speaker 1: to send Slow Trap to Whalen. Yeah, last summer I
Speaker 1: actually contacted Whaling Whaling train horses. No, I was gonna
Speaker 1: have Whaling trained slow trap and just and and then
Speaker 1: somewhere in the process, Bear was like, I'd like to
Speaker 1: train it. And so I texted Whaling back and said, hey,
Speaker 1: sorry man.
Speaker 2: And you haven't talked to him since.
Speaker 1: Sorry about that. Left you hanging all right. I bet
Speaker 1: it was really awesome for Bear to get.
Speaker 4: Oh, yes, and that is what When you told me that,
Speaker 4: I was like, that'll be a good one for him
Speaker 4: to start with, just from the videos and stuff i'd
Speaker 4: seen on the meal, I kind of had him peg
Speaker 4: and I thought that'll be a good one to get
Speaker 4: his feet wet in. Yeah, now he's hooked and we
Speaker 4: can send him something else.
Speaker 1: Yeah, Whaling's gonna send you one now, probably a crazy one.
Speaker 3: We'll see.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's a that That is a nice little meal.
Speaker 1: It's I wish it was taller. You got one like that.
Speaker 1: I bet it's not fourteen hands, maybe fourteen.
Speaker 3: If he's fourteen, he's big enough, I know, but he's
Speaker 3: three year old. He's gonna grow.
Speaker 2: He probably will will he grow after well.
Speaker 4: Three.
Speaker 1: So band Joe, which is his half brother, uh huh,
Speaker 1: was still growing. When I and he was six years old,
Speaker 1: he grew a lot.
Speaker 2: How much could you expect him to grow another hand?
Speaker 3: Maybe that dad always told us boys that they'd grow
Speaker 3: a horse mule would go till the seven.
Speaker 1: Okay, I think it horse mules mail.
Speaker 3: Yeah, it all depends. I think on the mule too.
Speaker 2: Is there a difference between a john mule and a horsemill?
Speaker 2: Just interchangeable words.
Speaker 1: We have a lot of words, depends on who you're
Speaker 1: talking with. We've only fed that mule grass hay too.
Speaker 1: I mean we've fed it a little bit of grain
Speaker 1: here and there, but like it has not had ty
Speaker 1: Evans told me he said, yeah, if you fed that
Speaker 1: mule alfalfa hay for a year, he said, it probably
Speaker 1: speed the growth. Oh yeah, but I mean the mule
Speaker 1: has free access. I just bought a year and a
Speaker 1: half old.
Speaker 4: Well, I say, just boways been a couple months ago,
Speaker 4: now a little younger than what I was planning on buying.
Speaker 4: But I can wait till May to start messing with him.
Speaker 4: But I got him thinking he'll be I mean, you've
Speaker 4: had this discussion like a fourteen fourteen to two hand mule,
Speaker 4: and that's what I thought he'll probably be that.
Speaker 1: Well.
Speaker 4: I put a stick to him the other day and
Speaker 4: he's already fourteen one, I think, So he's gonna wind
Speaker 4: up being probably bigger than what I wanted, bigger than
Speaker 4: what you want.
Speaker 3: But we'll see.
Speaker 1: But yeah, he's.
Speaker 3: Growed a lot since I got him, so we may
Speaker 3: do some trading. We'll talk later.
Speaker 2: It's kind of turned into the mule swapshop here at
Speaker 2: the BRender.
Speaker 4: Yeah, the one he's talking about. We can bring him
Speaker 4: up here and lead him in here. Lucky did that
Speaker 4: one the other day.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, ze yeah, Well, uh, one other ticket item.
Speaker 1: Jannist would tell us has a video coming out this
Speaker 1: week that you should watch.
Speaker 3: Sam.
Speaker 1: It's about his Manitoba bear hunt. But Joannie is going
Speaker 1: to be with us on the next render.
Speaker 2: Did you rumor of that today?
Speaker 1: Yeah, he's gonna be with us, so we'll wait to
Speaker 1: talk until then. But uh, but no, this episode, man,
Speaker 1: it was so good. This login episode really was.
Speaker 3: Yeah, it was.
Speaker 1: Uh. In the what happened was I came to talk
Speaker 1: to Kaylin and it's and I didn't really plan I mean,
Speaker 1: I thought we might talk to somebody else, but there
Speaker 1: wasn't too much planning involved in it. And while we're
Speaker 1: sitting there at the global headquarters of the lines Logging.
Speaker 3: Which is the barn. It's a barn.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, I hope that was for pick up you
Speaker 1: being sarcastic. Yes, but at first I was like, I
Speaker 1: was kind of confused.
Speaker 2: It's like Kaylin takes us to his corner office.
Speaker 3: Good.
Speaker 1: You needed to be confused for.
Speaker 6: One thing you said about that that was completely true.
Speaker 6: It is a location, yeah, yeah, yeah, it's just you,
Speaker 6: but it is in a hacup spot.
Speaker 1: It is how wide is it? I guessed fifty foot.
Speaker 3: It's thirty about fifties what it is? Yeah, I was right.
Speaker 3: I don't know what you said. It's fifty foot wide.
Speaker 1: I'll be done.
Speaker 3: It's fifty foot long.
Speaker 1: That's what I meant. That's what I That's what in
Speaker 1: my head.
Speaker 2: Opening on the open side, Yeah, the open sides.
Speaker 1: Okay, Yeah, So Kaylen and I are are sitting there
Speaker 1: and uh, Cody and his girls just kind of randomly
Speaker 1: pull up.
Speaker 3: And going home. I had been to dad, I was
Speaker 3: going home.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and then he walks over and I told them
Speaker 1: I don't think I've ever done the main part of
Speaker 1: an interview captured it quite like that. Usually I'm trying
Speaker 1: to direct people to get on like these good headsets
Speaker 1: and just so the audio call is really nice. But
Speaker 1: I had this little handheld deal and I was just
Speaker 1: kind of like bouncing around from one to the other
Speaker 1: when they would talk, you know, and uh, and they
Speaker 1: just kept talking as they do, and uh, it was
Speaker 1: I I knew that it was really good.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: And then I did tell this to Kaylen earlier when
Speaker 1: he started telling me about the story with Ethan. That's
Speaker 1: why I came there. That's what I told Kaylen the
Speaker 1: story that I wanted to hear because I'd heard him
Speaker 1: tell me the story on the bear hunt that you
Speaker 1: guys interrupted us talking about. At the first of the podcast.
Speaker 1: Me and Caylen were going down there, and he told me, yeah,
Speaker 1: so it's all time together, you know, it's like a yeah,
Speaker 1: And I envisioned a podcast that kind of revolved around
Speaker 1: that story, honestly, That's what I had in my head.
Speaker 1: But and and it ended up being that. But so Kaylen,
Speaker 1: we just go back and forth and tell me about
Speaker 1: logging and trucks and equipment and stories about Frankie Dale
Speaker 1: which were fascinating, Yeah, truly were. And then Caylen starts
Speaker 1: telling me about Ethan, and what I told him just
Speaker 1: today was that I was like that close to telling
Speaker 1: them to stop because I wanted to record that on
Speaker 1: the good equipment. I mean I might have even one
Speaker 1: time like started to speak and almost mumbled words, but
Speaker 1: he was going, and I just if there's one thing
Speaker 1: I've learned after years of doing this, is when somebody
Speaker 1: wants to talk, just let them talk, which is sometimes
Speaker 1: hard for me to do. I want to interrupt him
Speaker 1: and say something else, but he just I just let
Speaker 1: him talk and tell the story. And it was so good,
Speaker 1: so authentic. I was like, there's no way that we're
Speaker 1: telling that story again.
Speaker 3: That was it. Yeah.
Speaker 4: Well, knowing them too as well as I do, that
Speaker 4: was as natural as you could get them to talking. Yeah,
Speaker 4: I mean you stick headphones on and Mike and her
Speaker 4: face and I mean it's not the same, but me
Speaker 4: knowing them, I knew Whereams was that first of all,
Speaker 4: and everything going on, but that was that's what, in
Speaker 4: my opinion, made it one of the better one, just
Speaker 4: because it was so natural. I mean, it wasn't just
Speaker 4: like Cody showing up nothing stage. I even told my
Speaker 4: wife pads. I pat you on the back. I said,
Speaker 4: it's unbelievable. I said, Cody just showed up. Yeah, and
Speaker 4: he just.
Speaker 3: Rolled with it and it turned out good.
Speaker 1: Well, you felt that to me? You felt like you
Speaker 1: were just standing there with us, which is what you
Speaker 1: always want.
Speaker 2: Yep.
Speaker 1: But sometimes it doesn't translate. Like when it was happening,
Speaker 1: I knew that were that they would tell me really
Speaker 1: cool stuff, but I thought, this is going to be
Speaker 1: really hard to translate this to the listener. I wasn't.
Speaker 2: I wasn't there, but just listening to it myself. I
Speaker 2: really liked that, Like I felt like I was standing
Speaker 2: there with y'all just listening to y'all, y'all talk about,
Speaker 2: you know, tell stories and stuff, and you know, you
Speaker 2: could hear things echo in the back. You could hear
Speaker 2: the girls, the dogs. Yeah, I like that.
Speaker 3: Well that was the saying.
Speaker 4: Two days before that, I was down there helping them
Speaker 4: work on that dozer, and that's what it felt like.
Speaker 4: It felt like when we were standing down there just
Speaker 4: talking and going on. Well, he was working on it.
Speaker 1: So it was cool. So we get done. I say
Speaker 1: to Cody, I say, uh man, this is gonna turn
Speaker 1: out really nice something like that, didn't I And he goes,
Speaker 1: what turned out nice? And I said, you've been sitting
Speaker 1: here watching me put this microphone into your face. And
Speaker 1: he's like, what do you mean? And I was like,
Speaker 1: we're gonna make a podcast. He had to have been
Speaker 1: tricking me. This is when Cody like, you think he's
Speaker 1: just crazy, but really starting. Yeah, he was like, what
Speaker 1: do you mean? And I was like, you think I'm
Speaker 1: just I was just here just getting this audio so
Speaker 1: I could go listen to it myself in the truck.
Speaker 1: It was funny.
Speaker 6: Well, in my mind you were going to go In
Speaker 6: my mind, you were going to his house, right, Yeah,
Speaker 6: y'all were going to do the podcast.
Speaker 3: Yes, you know, I thought what you were.
Speaker 6: Doing down there, we're just gonna be like a little
Speaker 6: piece of something here or there.
Speaker 3: Maybe.
Speaker 2: Yeah, you didn't know you were going to be a star.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 2: Did he make you sign a waiver? You can probably
Speaker 2: get all that You probably get all that content back.
Speaker 1: Josh, No, it was so good, it really was. Bear
Speaker 1: What stood to you, Well, I like the the look
Speaker 1: inside of the logging world, because for me, as a
Speaker 1: hunter on National forest public land, you're always coming across
Speaker 1: loggers and there's kind of a separation between the hunter
Speaker 1: and the logger.
Speaker 5: I would say, like in a lot of ways, it's
Speaker 5: even viewed as like the loggers are kind of opposing
Speaker 5: the hunter's goals, and it kind of like, you know,
Speaker 5: like I feel like the loggers aren't always painted in
Speaker 5: the best light. But I really, I really like this
Speaker 5: look at it because y'all are hunters and your loggers,
Speaker 5: and you live close to the land. The land is,
Speaker 5: you know, providing your living, so that gives you more
Speaker 5: reason to care for the land and to steward the
Speaker 5: resource that you're going and pulling. So I really like
Speaker 5: the look, like the real look inside of the inside
Speaker 5: of the logging woods.
Speaker 1: That's that's a good that's a good comment.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I like that because I think I think things
Speaker 2: like that can be villainized. Like it's easy to villainize
Speaker 2: people when you don't know them, when you don't know
Speaker 2: their ethic, when you don't know how they do what
Speaker 2: they do. It's easy just to say, oh, these guys
Speaker 2: are just out there cutting trees. Yeah, and uh, I
Speaker 2: think one of the one of the most impacting things
Speaker 2: to me was listening to you guys talk about how
Speaker 2: different sections of timber have been generational for you guys.
Speaker 2: I mean, that's that's incredible. I mean, that's that is
Speaker 2: exactly what we need more of, not less of, you know,
Speaker 2: we need we need this stuff that provides for families,
Speaker 2: people can work a good job, while at the same
Speaker 2: time preserves the preserves the habitat for the animals, preserves
Speaker 2: the longevity you know what I mean, it's it's sustainable
Speaker 2: for generations. And that like that really impacted me when
Speaker 2: when you talk about what was said this these woods
Speaker 2: have put many kids through college.
Speaker 1: Oh that was that was a guy I know that.
Speaker 1: I remember him saying that to me over here, and
Speaker 1: he told me, he said, this track of timber has
Speaker 1: put he said, every thirty years they cut it, send
Speaker 1: a kid to college. I mean, and it's it's true.
Speaker 1: And and the other thing that people don't realize that
Speaker 1: aren't that don't know loggers or and even hunters would
Speaker 1: know this. There is very little timber in this country.
Speaker 1: I mean like none basically that is virgin timber.
Speaker 2: It's all been oa oh yeah.
Speaker 1: And it's a renewable resource. I mean even out in
Speaker 1: Big Wooly National Forest. I mean there's probably some places
Speaker 1: there in the eastern side, in some of these deep
Speaker 1: draws and ravines that didn't have marketable timber. You know
Speaker 1: that just it just wasn't worth getting in. Those trees
Speaker 1: today probably are cedar trees that are two foot or
Speaker 1: at the back. I mean, you wouldn't look at that
Speaker 1: tree and think that tree is five hundred years old,
Speaker 1: but it might be. I mean, would you guys agree
Speaker 1: with that, Like in some places there is some virgin timber.
Speaker 6: Yeah, I mean on the government you take so government
Speaker 6: land like uh like some of that wilderness land that
Speaker 6: they don't touch at all, but.
Speaker 1: But they did back. I mean, I know personally a
Speaker 1: lot of federal wilderness in this part of the world
Speaker 1: that would have been cut to the ground. But now
Speaker 1: it's wilderness.
Speaker 6: Yeah, I'm talking about Uh, I'm talking about you know,
Speaker 6: a lot of place well in my lifetime and before
Speaker 6: I know they haven't cut yeah. Uh but guess what
Speaker 6: you go through there now mm hmm. Those big trees
Speaker 6: are falling over yeah. Yeah, if you Dad's famous one
Speaker 6: of the Dad's most famous lines ever is it's a crop.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 6: I've heard him say that my whole life. If you
Speaker 6: don't take care of it. Nature takes care of it.
Speaker 6: I mean, those big trees. As much as I myself
Speaker 6: like to ride and hunt in big timber, there's nothing
Speaker 6: better it being in big timber.
Speaker 3: You know. We was talking about that last night.
Speaker 6: We was watching the Turkey Hut and it was a
Speaker 6: timber turkey hunt because there's nothing better than killing the
Speaker 6: old the old woods gobbler, there's nothing like them. But
Speaker 6: nothing lasts forever. Yeah, those big trees that are protected
Speaker 6: if you can't. There's this section of government land that
Speaker 6: I hunt and have for a lifetime. You go back
Speaker 6: from one year to the max, and it's amazing how
Speaker 6: much of that big virgin timber.
Speaker 3: It's fell over. Yeah. Uh.
Speaker 6: And when it starts falling over like that, it's a mess.
Speaker 6: It's a mess for years. You know, it's just barriers
Speaker 6: grow up. It's just a mess.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 3: That's nature's way of taking care of it. Yeah.
Speaker 6: I mean you can either manage it or God will.
Speaker 6: I mean, that's just work.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 1: Well, and there I said it on the podcast. But
Speaker 1: I think we know now how incredible that some you know,
Speaker 1: select timber harvest can be for wildlife proper. I mean,
Speaker 1: the best thing you could do for a big piece
Speaker 1: of timber if you wanted to make it. Deer in
Speaker 1: Turkey habitat is cut some of the timber, and so,
Speaker 1: you know, and I think most of the people that
Speaker 1: be listening to this would know that, but the general
Speaker 1: population maybe in some other places, you know, might you
Speaker 1: might say loggers. They might go, oh man, yeah, those
Speaker 1: are bad guys. And it's just ridiculous. I mean, like
Speaker 1: I said, even though the world is much more, much
Speaker 1: more plastic and much more metal than it used to be,
Speaker 1: you know, one hundred years ago during the Wooden Age,
Speaker 1: we still use an incredible amount of wood. I mean,
Speaker 1: just I mean, we live in a very wooden world still.
Speaker 1: I know the guy that, well, if you're talking about
Speaker 1: paper and cardboard, I mean, I think that there's going
Speaker 1: to be a transition more to cardboard and paper getting
Speaker 1: away from plastics now that they're seeing how wild plastics
Speaker 1: are just in terms of all the all the stuff.
Speaker 1: But anyway, I mean, so it's it's hard to be
Speaker 1: upset with a logger when if you're a human today,
Speaker 1: you know, and especially like these guys. And so the
Speaker 1: next episode is going to be primarily with Teddy via Lines,
Speaker 1: which is Cody's dad, Kaitlyn Whalen's uncle, and he started.
Speaker 1: The first things he said to me was he said,
Speaker 1: I love big timber, and he said I hate clear cutting.
Speaker 1: We select cut logs our entire lives, you know.
Speaker 4: And well did Josh's point wall Togo when he was
Speaker 4: talking about that stood out to him about the generation's
Speaker 4: log in the same spot. I can remember, which I've
Speaker 4: been out of this business for twenty years now, but
Speaker 4: I was like then when they was telling their stories
Speaker 4: about being eight nine year old with their little chainsaws. Well,
Speaker 4: I was twelve and they put me on a skitter.
Speaker 4: I was getting three load of logs a day behind
Speaker 4: my dad.
Speaker 3: No, he can try to warn up y'all twelve at twelve.
Speaker 4: But one of the first things when he said that,
Speaker 4: something popped in my mind. Something Dad told me, Well,
Speaker 4: I'm a kid, first of all. And just a few
Speaker 4: drags in and Dad stopped me and said, all that
Speaker 4: little stuff, don't run over as little as you can,
Speaker 4: because he said, them oak bushes that big around, He said,
Speaker 4: it's going to be cut one of these days. He said,
Speaker 4: be mindful, of course, you're on a piece of equipment
Speaker 4: that it's you can't not run over everything, right, I mean,
Speaker 4: but you can be selective on how you operate. But
Speaker 4: that was ingrained in us at a very young age.
Speaker 4: This is what's going to support the next generation. And
Speaker 4: it's the same thing. I drive by and say, well, Dad,
Speaker 4: what didn't you cut that tree? Because to me it
Speaker 4: was as big as some of the other ones he
Speaker 4: had cut. But he'd say, Son, we got to leave something.
Speaker 3: To come back to.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: So, and that's that's really really that's that's profound, you
Speaker 2: know what I mean. It's a it's a profound thing
Speaker 2: to make choices like that because I think I think humans,
Speaker 2: especially Westerners, have gotten really short sighted, you know what
Speaker 2: I mean. It's really about instant gratification, how it's going
Speaker 2: to benefit us right now in the moment. And to
Speaker 2: have people that are thinking, hey, I want to come
Speaker 2: back to that tree in ten or twenty or thirty years,
Speaker 2: that's sampling.
Speaker 4: There's a good possibility that some of that stuff Dad
Speaker 4: told me about them to or.
Speaker 3: Have cut it since.
Speaker 2: Exactly so, man, before y'all leave, y'all ought to go.
Speaker 1: I'll take you in my front yard. I bought and
Speaker 1: planted myself in two thousand and five a two inch
Speaker 1: at the base red oak, just like I bought from
Speaker 1: the landscape place and it was two thousand and five.
Speaker 1: I mean, I know for a fact when I planted it,
Speaker 1: and that tree, yeah, you could cut it, make furniture
Speaker 1: out of it.
Speaker 2: You want them to take it down for they leave.
Speaker 1: Matter of fact that y'all bring your saw, I'm ready
Speaker 1: to cash it in.
Speaker 2: Y'all are mainly cutting hardwoods.
Speaker 1: I mean that's all that's up here for for the
Speaker 1: most part. Yeah, some some pine.
Speaker 6: When we were kids, I would say we cut a
Speaker 6: lot of pine on a couple of different tracks, a
Speaker 6: lot of pine. But in the last several years, very
Speaker 6: little that weave even.
Speaker 1: Just because it's not there. It's not marketable not there. Yeah,
Speaker 1: well it doesn't seem like the I mean you go
Speaker 1: south of the Arkansas River and it's almost not all pine,
Speaker 1: but those pine plantations. I mean it feels like the
Speaker 1: world's got plenty of pines. You wouldn't even I mean
Speaker 1: hardwood seems not a little part.
Speaker 3: I mean that's there's some pine out there. Uh.
Speaker 6: Some of these government tracks, yeah, we'll have you know,
Speaker 6: pine on them, and most of that's pretty small stuff.
Speaker 3: Whatever but.
Speaker 6: Yeah, yeah, most of your private land stuff, we don't.
Speaker 6: We just don't run across much pine anymore, not apply.
Speaker 2: Mhm.
Speaker 1: Okay, on what what stood out to you? I know
Speaker 1: it's hard to listen to a podcast that you were
Speaker 1: the main guy. But I mean, like, did anything, did
Speaker 1: anything stand out to you?
Speaker 3: No?
Speaker 1: Not really, he probably didn't even listen to it.
Speaker 3: Okay, I can vouch for him.
Speaker 1: Okay, Okay, Well he's just like, yep, he told just
Speaker 1: like a good job man a few words. Well, Cody,
Speaker 1: did what I mean? Were you did you hear? Did
Speaker 1: we get right?
Speaker 2: How do you do putting it together?
Speaker 1: Oh?
Speaker 3: I told him when we came in here, he did
Speaker 3: with what he had to work.
Speaker 2: With, the talent, the talent he had to work with.
Speaker 3: Yeah, but what actually what stood out to me?
Speaker 6: I didn't know it was out He told me last
Speaker 6: night that we were coming here today. Yeah, he's like
Speaker 6: he put that out today.
Speaker 3: So I'm a home last night and watched it.
Speaker 6: Oh when he got talking about Ed, you know, just
Speaker 6: his uh that mentality mm hmmm. I mean you can't
Speaker 6: you can't describe a man any what is.
Speaker 3: Mm hmm. He describes his.
Speaker 1: Dad mm hmm. Yeah, that was. I mean we put
Speaker 1: like six minutes of probably of content there, and I mean,
Speaker 1: Caitlyn could have said so much more. But what you
Speaker 1: said about him was profound. And I have said that
Speaker 1: statement that you that the couple of ideas that he
Speaker 1: had there, I mean just just kind of like life philosophies,
Speaker 1: you know, just uh when he said, uh, well, talking
Speaker 1: about contentment, but then talking about when he said, if
Speaker 1: you're really being honest with people, you know, you're probably
Speaker 1: not going to get rich. And I've said that to
Speaker 1: multiple people, and again you qualified it and said, I
Speaker 1: know that that's not entirely true. They're wealthy people that
Speaker 1: are honest, but there's a lot of truth to it.
Speaker 1: And you know, just the idea that it just goes
Speaker 1: against the grain so much of what just pulsates through
Speaker 1: American society. I mean, it's like you almost feel bad
Speaker 1: for not trying to get rich. I mean that's the
Speaker 1: vibe that I feel. It's almost like if you're not trying,
Speaker 1: it's almost irresponsible. This is America, capitalism, most prosperous nation
Speaker 1: on earth, and it's just like I'll tell you something
Speaker 1: that I read and I'm going to try to tie
Speaker 1: it in and you're going to think I'm crazy. But
Speaker 1: I was reading a book about Inuits. I'm going to
Speaker 1: I'm going on a big trip in a couple of weeks.
Speaker 1: And they said that nomadic hunter gatherer people. A huge
Speaker 1: difference between nomadic hunter gatherer people and agrarian people was
Speaker 1: the way that they viewed objects. And this guy said
Speaker 1: that nomadic people, this is all going to tie together. Boys,
Speaker 1: nomadic people typically viewed objects with suspicion and kind of
Speaker 1: because they knew that they if they were going to
Speaker 1: take something with them, they were going to.
Speaker 2: Have to carry it right.
Speaker 1: They thought about things in literal terms of weight, and
Speaker 1: so in general, nomadic people did not gather up material objects. Farmers,
Speaker 1: on the other hand, agrarian societies were just like, well,
Speaker 1: I might as well take that home a place to
Speaker 1: put it, yep. And this guy said that the Western
Speaker 1: the Western thought process has been so influenced by the
Speaker 1: agrarian world that we have we falsely think that desire
Speaker 1: for material wealth is a native human desire that just
Speaker 1: runs inside of all of us. Like he said, that's
Speaker 1: actually not true, because you like psychologists and all these
Speaker 1: people would say that it is. That's just human nature.
Speaker 1: Like if you just pulled pluck somebody out of Africa
Speaker 1: and out of Europe and out of India and you
Speaker 1: put them all in a laboratory, they would all have
Speaker 1: this innate desire to accumulate material objects and wealth. And
Speaker 1: this guy is saying, no, that's not true. We just
Speaker 1: are so ingrained with this this thing that it's this
Speaker 1: desire for material wealth is actually something relatively new. And
Speaker 1: when Europeans first arrived in North America, they were astonished.
Speaker 1: It's in the it's in the record all over the place.
Speaker 1: It's fascinating to me. They were astonished at these guys
Speaker 1: trying to find gold, Like they were like, what do
Speaker 1: you what do you want? And they're like gold what for?
Speaker 1: I mean you can't eat it, you can't can't plant
Speaker 1: it and make it grow, you can't build something with it.
Speaker 1: And they actually thought these guys were crazy. And so
Speaker 1: I just think about Eddie and kind of the mentality
Speaker 1: just like not this file. And again, to me, the
Speaker 1: key component is contentment, not how much money. I mean,
Speaker 1: you know, it's not like, well, if you have more
Speaker 1: than this many dollars, you're you're evil. I mean, you
Speaker 1: can't do that you know, but just this idea of
Speaker 1: contentment being pretty powerful and and it makes me aware
Speaker 1: of the vibe of of this generation, of this time.
Speaker 1: I mean, that's that was a profound section. I thought.
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, that was the best part to me by far. Yeah.
Speaker 6: Just knowing him, Yeah, knowing him, I mean he just
Speaker 6: wanted to be my dad. I mean him and dad
Speaker 6: are one and the same. Yeah, I lived in the
Speaker 6: house of one. That's the only difference, honestly.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 6: Uh, But growing up, I wouldn't have said, that's that's
Speaker 6: the guy I want to be, like, he's you know
Speaker 6: what I mean, he wasn't that larger than life.
Speaker 3: He was just the dead to me.
Speaker 6: But the older I got, you know, uh, and before
Speaker 6: he got sick and whatever, just going down there, just
Speaker 6: going to his house. U. He might be on the
Speaker 6: back porch with a cup of coffee in the winter time.
Speaker 6: He'd bet now by that stove with a cup of
Speaker 6: coffee whatever, just going in the house.
Speaker 3: You got that feeling of yeah mm hmmm. So to me,
Speaker 3: that was that made the podcast for me, Yeah for sure,
Speaker 3: Yeah mm hmm.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that was that was unique.
Speaker 3: Unique.
Speaker 2: I'm looking forward to the next episode, you know.
Speaker 1: It's it's I hope, I hope us bringing up Frankie
Speaker 1: Dale was I mean not surely his family would be
Speaker 1: proud of what all was said about him. Uh, those
Speaker 1: stories were really interesting to me. Yeah, I mean, just
Speaker 1: the way you describe him. And then I wouldn't have
Speaker 1: known that he died, Like the listener was on the
Speaker 1: same journey as me, because you started talking about Frankie Dale,
Speaker 1: and you know, you you talked about what a character
Speaker 1: he was, and then and then I go and basically
Speaker 1: in my mind, I'm leading to questions about, man, this
Speaker 1: is really dangerous.
Speaker 3: You know.
Speaker 1: Do y'all have stories of guys getting killed? Now, I
Speaker 1: knew about Kaylin's story about Ethan, That's kind of why
Speaker 1: I'm there, But I had no idea that y'all would
Speaker 1: have known people that had been I mean I figured
Speaker 1: you did, but known people have been killed. And then
Speaker 1: for Kaylen go, well, Freckie Dale got killed like three
Speaker 1: years ago. I mean, it just painted the picture. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean, and then it also when I started doing
Speaker 1: the research on logging, just how dangered it actually is.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 1: The Bureau of Labor Statistics puts out stuff every year
Speaker 1: about the most dangerous jobs. You know, I didn't. It
Speaker 1: wasn't like a deep deep dive into it. But basically
Speaker 1: in the nineteen nineties, logging peaked as the most danger
Speaker 1: like it was the most dangerous time. Yeah, I mean,
Speaker 1: it almost feels like maybe back in the day deeper
Speaker 1: it would have been more dangerous. But since the Bureau
Speaker 1: was keeping stats, it peaked in the nineteen nineties. I
Speaker 1: wonder if y'all had any insight.
Speaker 3: Into that time we got into it.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, y'all got into it. Yeah, not your dad's.
Speaker 4: I could see the pace of it, the pace, the
Speaker 4: pace picking up in the nineties, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1: And there was less there was mechanization, but there were
Speaker 1: more hand cutting.
Speaker 3: Going on, you bet, yeah. Yeah.
Speaker 6: And today in the nineties it would have been most
Speaker 6: of the guys around here would have been hand cutting,
Speaker 6: I mean cutting them down, I just don't yep. And
Speaker 6: they had also been cutting the links we cow bucking up.
Speaker 6: Most all that would have been changed that work, I mean,
Speaker 6: there was probably the nineties probably would have been when
Speaker 6: I probably seen the first buck up saw, which is
Speaker 6: a mechanical hydraug solid hooks on load and you can
Speaker 6: cut them the lamp through out there with a loader.
Speaker 1: Okay, so you're you cut them at the stump, they
Speaker 1: fall over and then the buck up saw cuts them
Speaker 1: into the links the load. Yeah, gotcha.
Speaker 6: The first buckups I probablyould ever heard. That would have
Speaker 6: been in the nineties and I was a little kid.
Speaker 1: So it got safer when he had a buckup saw.
Speaker 3: Yeah. It took up one, it took it took out. Yeah.
Speaker 1: Yeah one time you cutting through that log.
Speaker 3: But it's like Kim talking about getting hung up.
Speaker 4: Yeah yeah, when he got hung up in the log
Speaker 4: ball that was because he was bucking up log with
Speaker 4: a chainsaw yea instead of having the buckups.
Speaker 3: All that takes that gentlement out of it.
Speaker 6: Yeah yeah, yeah, I mean that would have been the heyday.
Speaker 6: Well that's when it is, you bet.
Speaker 1: So that's when it peaked one hundred and twenty eight
Speaker 1: deaths per hundred thousand workers per year. And that was
Speaker 1: way above like the number two thing in the nineties.
Speaker 1: So this is what I was trying to describe, Like
Speaker 1: the second thing, I don't even know what it was,
Speaker 1: but whatever it was, it was deaths like in the
Speaker 1: like fifty sixty if it was commercial fishing, and they
Speaker 1: give the statistic based upon one hundred thousand workers. Out
Speaker 1: of one hundred thousand workers, one hundred and twenty eight
Speaker 1: died today. And I think the most recent stats I've
Speaker 1: found were like twenty seventeen or something, and it was
Speaker 1: a little bit unclear, but it was between fifty and
Speaker 1: one hundred deaths per one hundred thousand today really, and
Speaker 1: logan was still the most dangerous, but it was right
Speaker 1: in line closer to in line with commercial fishing, commercial fishing,
Speaker 1: iron working, small aircraft pilot. And when you think about that,
Speaker 1: that makes sense too. It's like per one hundred thousand,
Speaker 1: you might be like, you know, how many how many
Speaker 1: people we hear about people around here that are dying
Speaker 1: in little plane crashes occasionally, But anyway, it's pretty interesting stuff.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 1: The other interesting stat that I learned was that and
Speaker 1: now this was an older statistic from like it was
Speaker 1: a couple of years old, but that the average American
Speaker 1: uses one tree eighteen inch tree hundred foot long and
Speaker 1: paper and wood every year. Did that was that surprising?
Speaker 3: A hundred foot long?
Speaker 1: You didn't listen? Did you even listen?
Speaker 3: Cody nd.
Speaker 1: That's what it said. The amount of realized the tree
Speaker 1: couldn't be one hundred, So I mean.
Speaker 2: Just that amount, that's what they said, just in paper products.
Speaker 2: Just mean the number of Amazon packages that I get
Speaker 2: at my house and the amount of boxes I break down.
Speaker 1: That the surprise, But that's increased in the last I
Speaker 1: said after COVID, I wanted to start investing in cardboard companies.
Speaker 2: Yeah, no doubt.
Speaker 1: Everything's in cardboard.
Speaker 3: Yep.
Speaker 1: I mean everything shipped, everything's in cardboard. But anyway, that's
Speaker 1: a that sound like a lot. I wouldn't have thought
Speaker 1: every American was using one giant tree every year. I'm
Speaker 1: thinking about just buying my tree straight from these.
Speaker 2: Guys making your on cardboard, just just mail order.
Speaker 1: Maybe that's a new business. Y'all could ship people logs
Speaker 1: just so they could hand pick, because that's the way
Speaker 1: it works.
Speaker 2: It's like over there, dugout canoes in there.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 5: I've actually been looking at these big snakewood logs that
Speaker 5: they shipped from Canada, like a thousand bucks for a
Speaker 5: six foot log to ship it. Oh really, and yeah,
Speaker 5: I'm really considering it because I've never seen a snake
Speaker 5: wood boat.
Speaker 3: We may have some snake woodland around you think.
Speaker 1: Is that?
Speaker 2: Is that a thing y'all have her.
Speaker 7: If I ever heard of speaking.
Speaker 1: Of wood, show us your bow. So this bow new bow,
Speaker 1: speaking of wood.
Speaker 5: Yeah, speaking of speaking of wood, I got osage orange
Speaker 5: black walnut on the handle with a big knot going
Speaker 5: right through the middle and then all of wood, which
Speaker 5: surprisingly well, actually not surprisingly, but it kind of caught
Speaker 5: me off guard. Whenever I was cutting through that olive wood,
Speaker 5: it smelled like green olives, like really really strong, and
Speaker 5: even whenever I'm filing it, it smells like olives.
Speaker 1: But I can you smell it right now? Probably it
Speaker 1: kind of has a pungent, like a sharp odor. I
Speaker 1: wouldn't have picked it as olives, but I smell when
Speaker 1: you're smelling that that odor, I think is just the
Speaker 1: hard wood.
Speaker 3: I don't like all you don't want to smell that owner.
Speaker 5: I think it's just from the place I got it
Speaker 5: smells like that.
Speaker 1: But no, whenever I cut through it, it smelled like olives.
Speaker 3: I'll take your word for it.
Speaker 2: I like that riser on there in that grip.
Speaker 1: It's not finished out. You know, this is the rough,
Speaker 1: so he'll he'll take a lot more off of that.
Speaker 5: Yeah, yeah, but I'm kind of trying to the carm
Speaker 5: hole replicate more of a like your fiberglass recurve. Like
Speaker 5: if you look at a recurve, it's it's got a
Speaker 5: lot more material on the handle and you can get
Speaker 5: a lot deeper in that grip.
Speaker 1: And that's one of the major factors bigger handle or
Speaker 1: why it's easier to shoot a fiberglass recurve than a
Speaker 1: self bow. And so I'm trying to get as close
Speaker 1: to that as i can, but it'll still needy handle
Speaker 1: on it. Yeah, but anyway, there it is, looks good.
Speaker 1: Did where did that stave? O sage?
Speaker 3: Stave? Where'd you get that?
Speaker 1: The O Sage?
Speaker 5: I believe this stave came from one one of my
Speaker 5: one of my bowyer teachers.
Speaker 1: He gave me that stave. Do y'all have osage over there?
Speaker 3: You know, not about knowledge?
Speaker 1: You don't see it. Man, We've got we've got a
Speaker 1: lot of osage. I think the further west you get,
Speaker 1: you get more. I mean, I've got a ton of
Speaker 1: osage on this property.
Speaker 5: Yeah, we're got weird cut We're in kind of like
Speaker 5: a like a zone where there's osage.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's incredible wood, man, when you cut it and
Speaker 1: cut it with a saw. It is almost neon yellow.
Speaker 1: Have you have you ever cut it with us?
Speaker 3: All?
Speaker 1: Yeah? And you just see a big old pile this bright.
Speaker 1: It dulls over.
Speaker 5: If you see one that's like thirty years old that's
Speaker 5: been sitting in the sun or taking a lot of use,
Speaker 5: it'll be jet black, like really jet black black black.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's pretty wild.
Speaker 2: Is that bow right there?
Speaker 3: What?
Speaker 2: What's what do you what do you intend to do
Speaker 2: with it? Is that gonna be a hunting bow? Is
Speaker 2: that gonna be a yeah?
Speaker 1: Yeah, this is gonna be a hunting bow.
Speaker 5: I don't know if I should say what I'm exactly
Speaker 5: I'm doing with it?
Speaker 2: Can you foreshadow?
Speaker 7: Not?
Speaker 1: Certainly?
Speaker 2: You're not a shadow like you're dad.
Speaker 1: Kidding, I'm kidding. Were probably here's a shadow.
Speaker 5: We're going to Alaska and I need to make the
Speaker 5: bow totally waterproof.
Speaker 3: That's what.
Speaker 2: There's your foreshadowing.
Speaker 3: I want to know, how do you how do you
Speaker 3: come up with what poundages?
Speaker 1: Well?
Speaker 3: Is that all about right now? String? Or is it
Speaker 3: all right in the bow?
Speaker 1: It's all in the bow.
Speaker 5: I mean you can adjust it a little with a string,
Speaker 5: but yeah, I'll put it up in a tailer and rack,
Speaker 5: and I'll take wood off of this side and I'll
Speaker 5: put just a bow scale on it and pull it down.
Speaker 1: He's constantly testing the wight. He'll put a string on it,
Speaker 1: test the way.
Speaker 3: You know what you've got.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's yeah, and when I stand it, it'll probably lose.
Speaker 1: But he's had several that got it kind of got
Speaker 1: away from him a little bit, and he's like, you
Speaker 1: know it's too it got too light quick, you know,
Speaker 1: so you can once.
Speaker 5: Yeah, I mean you sometimes you can cut him shorter,
Speaker 5: make the string shorter, but yeah, it's it's no good
Speaker 5: once you get him too late.
Speaker 2: Have you ever had one blow up on you when
Speaker 2: you're shooting.
Speaker 1: No, but I'm kind of surprised I haven't yet.
Speaker 5: I know a lot of people who had him blow
Speaker 5: up on him.
Speaker 1: Gary Nucom had an American compound bow. There was a
Speaker 1: company called American. Did you ever hear that in the nineties. Uh,
Speaker 1: there was a company called American. And he was shooting
Speaker 1: trying to shoot bows super fast. He was shooting just
Speaker 1: the lightest arrow possible, and so that's real hard on boat,
Speaker 1: trying to get to shoot real flat. He kind of
Speaker 1: had like hot rid bows and I remember being out
Speaker 1: in the yard with him one day when that thing
Speaker 1: just came apart at the compound bow.
Speaker 4: There, I had a high country done the exact same.
Speaker 4: When I got done, I was holding the riser.
Speaker 3: That was it. Everything else was hanging down here. I
Speaker 3: don't do that again.
Speaker 4: Yeah, oh yeah, there's pieces of that, but I never
Speaker 4: did find Yeah.
Speaker 1: I find that in the archaeological record one day.
Speaker 3: Uh.
Speaker 1: Well man, thank you guys for coming. Yeah, and it's
Speaker 1: it's uh. We could have we could have had you
Speaker 1: on after this next episode, but it just worked out
Speaker 1: for y'all to come this time. Whalen, what what stood
Speaker 1: out to you? I hadn't really even asked you that.
Speaker 3: No, it it brought back a lot of memories. It was.
Speaker 3: It was good.
Speaker 4: Start finish for me because it did. Like I said,
Speaker 4: I've been out over twenty years. Cody brought up a
Speaker 4: good point where ago, I've got two brothers. They're sitting
Speaker 4: right there, and to see them what they've done, it's good.
Speaker 4: I got a lot of laughs thinking about because it
Speaker 4: brought up a lot of memories. Think about them too,
Speaker 4: one of them, whichever one of them, talked about them.
Speaker 4: Color and the homelight chainsaw, and I can remember. I
Speaker 4: think it was Colin that he took that old color,
Speaker 4: and it was it didn't want to start a lot
Speaker 4: of times.
Speaker 3: That's a famous yeah, afraid.
Speaker 4: It would start to good the first time, the first
Speaker 4: time once it got hot, A what did want to start?
Speaker 3: Now?
Speaker 4: Well, I witnessed him crank on as much he got mad,
Speaker 4: and as far as he could throw.
Speaker 3: That saw, he throwed it over the hill. Yeah, and
Speaker 3: left it.
Speaker 4: Dad come in to fill up with gas and he
Speaker 4: was like, where you saw?
Speaker 3: Because I got mad? He won't know why I hadn't
Speaker 3: bucked up the laws?
Speaker 4: Yeah, why why haven't you done your job? And then
Speaker 4: he says, and where's your saw? Yeah, it's over that hill,
Speaker 4: said we'll go get it.
Speaker 3: Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker 4: That and coming in with dragon logs and seeing them
Speaker 4: playing baseball, sticking.
Speaker 3: Rock and bus meant we had done our job. Yeah
Speaker 3: we're caught up.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and you're caught up like that.
Speaker 4: But yeah, no, it was I'm like Cody, the the
Speaker 4: contentment that our father had.
Speaker 3: Looking back makes a lot more sense now.
Speaker 1: Mm hmmm mm hmm.
Speaker 4: Recently stepped away from a twenty year career for that
Speaker 4: purpose to have more contentment. To be to be home, and.
Speaker 3: I always knew.
Speaker 4: Cody brought up a good point in the podcast about
Speaker 4: it being addictive, and I can tell you for me,
Speaker 4: I loved driving a skitter. I mean that's what I
Speaker 4: grew up doing, done it for well until I was
Speaker 4: twenty four, I think, and working inside for twenty years,
Speaker 4: never could get used to it. I enjoyed my job,
Speaker 4: I enjoyed the people, but I didn't even have a
Speaker 4: window to look out of. And it was hard. I
Speaker 4: mean there was days I would have loved to have
Speaker 4: been sitting behind a big molder in his tearing at
Speaker 4: roar and grabbing trees and going. And now I can
Speaker 4: get back outside again.
Speaker 1: And do you mind telling us? It brought up a
Speaker 1: lot of what you did and what you do now.
Speaker 1: I mean, you don't have to, you.
Speaker 3: Know, it's fine.
Speaker 4: Yeah, I went to tell us some combat for twenty
Speaker 4: one years. Yeah, pistol shop customers.
Speaker 3: Pistol shop here, eleven custom a rs.
Speaker 4: And God blessed me with way to provide for my
Speaker 4: family when I the year I started for them was
Speaker 4: the year my oldest daughter was born. And I was
Speaker 4: able to step away because I mean, just like the
Speaker 4: last few days in the wintertime, thursdays you don't work.
Speaker 4: I need a steady paycheck, and I was able to
Speaker 4: step away. Now I'm helping my cousin run a turkey
Speaker 4: farm that's less than a quarter mile from my house.
Speaker 4: So for the first time in a long time, I've
Speaker 4: got up every morning for the last six months and
Speaker 4: watched the sun come up. And I literally wrote a
Speaker 4: mule to work several days. And it's just it's been great.
Speaker 4: But to my point that I was able to do it,
Speaker 4: and the contentment that I have is it's priceless. I
Speaker 4: have a better understanding what our father always told us.
Speaker 3: Mm hmm, yeah. I mean, I don't want to talk
Speaker 3: too much. You can edit out if you don't like it.
Speaker 3: And I told you editor when I.
Speaker 6: Told you, But have you asked us what the biggest
Speaker 6: benefit was? And I said the freedom.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 6: Uh five years ago, six years ago, in twenty twenty
Speaker 6: June twenty twenty, I found out that I had cold cancer.
Speaker 4: Oh, redact to that editor, put it back, put it
Speaker 4: back back, that's what.
Speaker 1: Yeah, he didn't hear what I said. I made a
Speaker 1: joke when you started to the editor to cut it out. Yeah,
Speaker 1: And then when I realized where we're going. I'm like,
Speaker 1: we better keep the sin anyway.
Speaker 6: Oh, I was thirty six years old, found out I
Speaker 6: had cold cancer.
Speaker 1: Wow.
Speaker 3: Leading up to that.
Speaker 6: H I mean, I'm not gonna throw out numbers or
Speaker 6: talk about production or anything. But leading up to that point,
Speaker 6: the logging business had been good for us, really good. Oh.
Speaker 6: And I got to the point I was working on Saturday,
Speaker 6: lots of Saturdays. If I wasn't working on Saturdays, I
Speaker 6: was taking care of equipment.
Speaker 3: Uh.
Speaker 6: I loved the bass fish in the summertime. At night,
Speaker 6: I loved the bass fish, tournament fish whatever. I had
Speaker 6: quit bass fishing, I mean I was, I was working.
Speaker 6: I mean I wasn't even hunting like I normally would hunt.
Speaker 6: And then that summer I found out I had a
Speaker 6: cold cancer.
Speaker 3: Uh.
Speaker 6: I was cutting timber when they called me, had my
Speaker 6: phone in my pocket. I had been to the doctor.
Speaker 6: I knew they were going to call me whatever. And
Speaker 6: I had been looking to this little stretch of timber
Speaker 6: for a week. I mean I had cut everything out
Speaker 6: below it. I had it set up.
Speaker 3: Uh. And I was cutting that little section of some big,
Speaker 3: nice timber. That morning.
Speaker 6: I could hear Dad over here, he's cutting and Frank
Speaker 6: he was working with us the time he's over here.
Speaker 6: I could hear his slaves running and my phone but
Speaker 6: I've cut the tree and my phone vibrates in my
Speaker 6: pocket and it's the doctor. And he said, what we
Speaker 6: found is colon cancer. And he said it was early stages.
Speaker 6: He said, this is early. He said, I think you
Speaker 6: can probably get took care of me. He said, if
Speaker 6: you don't take care of it, this will kill you.
Speaker 6: That was exact words. I got off the phone. My
Speaker 6: chainsaw still stuck in a tree over there, Idland. I
Speaker 6: walked over there to white oak stump and I got
Speaker 6: down and I had done some bread. And I can
Speaker 6: tell you lots of stories about the whole, you know,
Speaker 6: just the whole what I came out of that with.
Speaker 6: But one of the biggest things I came out of
Speaker 6: that with was I'm not going to say I was
Speaker 6: to the point of being driven by a dollar, but
Speaker 6: I was getting there. I mean, I was getting to
Speaker 6: the point where, you know, we were doing pretty good,
Speaker 6: making some money. And when that starts happening, you want
Speaker 6: to make more of it. But guess what it's like
Speaker 6: you're talking about what you just you just keep wanting more.
Speaker 6: You'll never be satisfied if you left that.
Speaker 3: Drive you.
Speaker 6: I mean, I know guys that just like logging that much.
Speaker 6: They'll be out there on Saturday and they're really doing
Speaker 6: it for the money. They just like it that much.
Speaker 6: That's you know, I'm not knocking those guys at all.
Speaker 6: If that's what you love doing and get after it.
Speaker 6: But I think God put the brakes on for me.
Speaker 6: I mean, there's some other things that came out of that,
Speaker 6: but one of the biggest things that for me was
Speaker 6: God was like, what you know, this is what's really important.
Speaker 6: I had to kids at the time. One was gods
Speaker 6: should have to do the math. One was two, I
Speaker 6: think the other one was even younger. But after I
Speaker 6: got back held up, they did surgery. I mean, the
Speaker 6: good Lord took care of me cancer free. I've done
Speaker 6: scan after scan since then and scopes and so where
Speaker 6: a famous good But God healed me.
Speaker 3: We'll just.
Speaker 6: Shortened up and say God healed me because he did.
Speaker 6: Oh but after that, when I came out of that,
Speaker 6: I got healed up.
Speaker 3: I was like, Okay, what you know, what is really important?
Speaker 6: And then since that time, that's amazing how much more
Speaker 6: time I spent with Dad. Uh not in the woods.
Speaker 6: He was there for all of it, you know, work
Speaker 6: and we were said beside. But since then we spent
Speaker 6: the last five we've done so much more hunting.
Speaker 1: Uh.
Speaker 3: I got back into fishing fish all time in the summertime. Uh.
Speaker 6: I don't know, It's just it's funny how God can
Speaker 6: just hold you up and be like, what's really you know,
Speaker 6: what's your other point? I mean, We're only gonna get
Speaker 6: to do this one time. M hm, you better do
Speaker 6: what you I mean, if you got kids and friends
Speaker 6: and family, enjoy them. Because I heard a guy say
Speaker 6: that day, nobody ever said on their on their deathbed,
Speaker 6: I wish I went to work more. Yeah, and that's
Speaker 6: so true.
Speaker 3: Yeah m hm.
Speaker 4: Well that's the reason I'm doing what I do now,
Speaker 4: because looking back on took it for granted. Dad always
Speaker 4: told us, boys, when about the only time we took
Speaker 4: a vacation was in November, we'd take off a couple
Speaker 4: of weeks deer hunting, and that always still boys do
Speaker 4: it way you can I know now what he meant.
Speaker 4: I mean, I'm forty five years old and got two
Speaker 4: kids chased around all over playing ball and I love it.
Speaker 4: But a year or two ago, we had got out
Speaker 4: and my youngest daughter ride, took her, We went square hunting,
Speaker 4: took mom's dog, just walked a circle, killed a few squirrels,
Speaker 4: had a big time. And my youngest daughter had never
Speaker 4: even courted. And I told my wife then, I said
Speaker 4: something gotta change. I said, missed way too much. I said,
Speaker 4: things has got to slow down. I said, there's got
Speaker 4: to be more of this. I've always loved riding, loved
Speaker 4: breaking animals. Been able to get back to that, but
Speaker 4: that contentment, I mean, this is circle back around.
Speaker 3: But that's you can't put a price on that. Yeah,
Speaker 3: for sure, Dad now is fighting cancer. You know that.
Speaker 6: He just kind of found out in November. Uh, he's
Speaker 6: doing good right now, be real good right now. But
Speaker 6: when all that happened, and I was able to look
Speaker 6: back on, you know, the last five six years and
Speaker 6: be like, you know, I haven't taken it for granted.
Speaker 6: Every time we went, we're out, you know, doing something
Speaker 6: besides working. I mean, I've enjoyed it. And now looking
Speaker 6: back on his lot, I mean you can see what
Speaker 6: God kind of lined up for you. Uh, but it's
Speaker 6: been Yeah, it's quite journey.
Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, not to bring up everything bad
Speaker 4: going on, but our dad was diagnosed with liver body
Speaker 4: of dementia.
Speaker 3: Yeah, three almost three years ago.
Speaker 4: Now going on going on four years, and it seems
Speaker 4: but I hate to say it, but it seems like
Speaker 4: one bad thing after another just happened. But boy, it
Speaker 4: puts things in perspective. M Yeah, it makes you think
Speaker 4: about the things that he told you. Oh yeah, that's
Speaker 4: the reason this. I mean, yeah, I got a lot
Speaker 4: of laughs out of it, out of it and everything,
Speaker 4: but it brought up a lot of good memories.
Speaker 3: I mean that, don't get me wrong.
Speaker 4: We we've always had it good. Oh yeah, I mean
Speaker 4: not knowing any better, not knowing, and we didn't know
Speaker 4: when we as kids how tough.
Speaker 3: It probably really was.
Speaker 4: What our fathers mothers went through because we didn't know
Speaker 4: that we didn't have anything. I'm looking back on it.
Speaker 4: I mean we had, don't get me wrong, we had
Speaker 4: a lot.
Speaker 3: But yeah, I can remember being.
Speaker 6: Like an early teenager thirteen, fourteen years old or whatever,
Speaker 6: coming home from school one day and mom said, oh,
Speaker 6: so and so had a heart attack, and I was like, well,
Speaker 6: what happened to him? And she said, I think it
Speaker 6: was just stress.
Speaker 3: And I was like what And she said, he was
Speaker 3: just stressed out. And I said, what's that mean? What
Speaker 3: does that mean? Oh?
Speaker 6: And it wasn't anything to do with me. There was
Speaker 6: everything to do with the two people that raised me.
Speaker 6: I never heard the word stress. I never heard them say, man,
Speaker 6: I'm stressed out. This is going wrong, that's going wrong.
Speaker 6: I mean they were trying to raise two kids. My
Speaker 6: sister was born with a hold her heart and that's
Speaker 6: a whole other podcast. I mean, she's a miracle. Yeah,
Speaker 6: still love today. They dealt with that, but they never
Speaker 6: talked about being stressed out or it's so bad.
Speaker 2: It was just weren't victims of no, sir.
Speaker 1: It was that happened.
Speaker 6: It was just life and how we dealt with it,
Speaker 6: how they dealt with it. Oh, and I'm so thankful
Speaker 6: for that. I mean, looking back on it now, I
Speaker 6: can look back on it and be like, you know,
Speaker 6: everybody didn't have the mom and daddy that I did.
Speaker 6: I mean, it's just playing simple. Everybody didn't, but I
Speaker 6: sure I'm glad I didn't.
Speaker 1: Yeah, well that's why this was it was Uh, I mean,
Speaker 1: you know this podcast obviously is focusing on this logging thing,
Speaker 1: but you're seeing behind it to see little pictures into
Speaker 1: you guys family. And that's what I noticed right away
Speaker 1: when I got to know you guys, which I hadn't
Speaker 1: known you my whole life. I mean, I don't know
Speaker 1: five or six years ago, Caitlyn we met, but no,
Speaker 1: y'all really do have so I'm really really special. And
Speaker 1: I mean your families are strong believers. I knew that
Speaker 1: right away, which was unique. And then yeah, just the
Speaker 1: history that you guys have and where y'all live, and
Speaker 1: I mean, I got a cool story and I'm glad
Speaker 1: we found a way to kind of share it. And
Speaker 1: we're kind of just getting started because next episodes all
Speaker 1: about your dad, yep. And it's really good, this this
Speaker 1: whole episode. I actually the way I build these is
Speaker 1: you kind of just like I don't see the whole
Speaker 1: thing when I start. I mean, even when I'm like,
Speaker 1: have done all the interviews, I come back here and
Speaker 1: I listened to every episode, I mean every interview, and
Speaker 1: I had like two and a half hours of talking
Speaker 1: that between at your house with your dad and then
Speaker 1: our stuff at the Global headquarters, and so I just
Speaker 1: I listened to the whole thing and I just pull
Speaker 1: out the pieces that I'm just like, that's interesting. I
Speaker 1: want that in there. I don't know where it's gonna fit.
Speaker 1: So I started pulled out pieces and stacking them together
Speaker 1: in like little bricks and blocks, and the whole time
Speaker 1: I was thinking, Okay, this is all going to Teddy.
Speaker 1: You know, we got to introduce Teddy. And you know,
Speaker 1: I like built this whole episode and we hadn't even
Speaker 1: talked to him yet, and uh, it just you know,
Speaker 1: and I did that because it was good. I just
Speaker 1: kept stacking stuff on top of stuff. But but uh,
Speaker 1: that's good though, because next episode will be and.
Speaker 3: I'm glad you got him. Yeah, you got him going well.
Speaker 6: I mean we've talked about it for years, like with
Speaker 6: Hillard or other uncle Hillard.
Speaker 1: That's right.
Speaker 3: Why didn't somebody have a tape recorder when he started?
Speaker 6: I mean, I've got like an eight or ten minute
Speaker 6: video that healer doesn't know what he don't know?
Speaker 3: I got on my phone.
Speaker 6: Yeah, just because one day I just happened to be like, oh,
Speaker 6: here's my chance. And I've got a couple of different
Speaker 6: ones of Dad and Frankie Dale together talking about.
Speaker 3: The old time class. Oh do you really like sitting
Speaker 3: in the truck? Sit down, eat lunch?
Speaker 6: And I would purposely get them going and and i'd
Speaker 6: hit record on my phone.
Speaker 3: Really, I've got.
Speaker 6: A couple of different twenty men, and one of them
Speaker 6: is a good one. But we everybody said for years
Speaker 6: would be like like lit with Grandma. Why didn't somebody
Speaker 6: record that?
Speaker 3: Well?
Speaker 1: Can I tell them about Hillard when we went over there?
Speaker 3: Yeah?
Speaker 1: Okay, so there Teddy. It is confusing. I've been around enough.
Speaker 1: I know the story now. But Teddy and Eddie, their
Speaker 1: dads have an older brother named Hillard, and he is
Speaker 1: the oldest living brother. There's another brother that's older, but
Speaker 1: Hillard is eighty seven, eighty seven, still live, still in
Speaker 1: incredible health in Kaylin last year, sometime two years ago,
Speaker 1: said uncle hill Lord, I've got a buddy that would
Speaker 1: like to come interview you and talk to you about
Speaker 1: talk about Yeah, we're going to talk about Buffalo River
Speaker 1: when we were Buffalo River episodes. And anyway, I ended
Speaker 1: up going over there and meeting with him and we
Speaker 1: put these stinking headsets on him and I did, and
Speaker 1: I warned you about that before you out there. I know.
Speaker 1: The thing was is that we I felt like I
Speaker 1: had some rapport with him. I mean I talked to
Speaker 1: him and he was warmed up, and he was just
Speaker 1: seemed to be enjoying himself. And then I was like, man, hey,
Speaker 1: let's let's go ahead and do this and put this
Speaker 1: this headset on him. And it was like something shifted.
Speaker 2: Like putting the muzzle on the dogs.
Speaker 1: And he turned to Kaitlin and he just said he
Speaker 1: I don't want to do this, and uh, and anyway,
Speaker 1: it was a shame and I was just like, hey,
Speaker 1: no problem, I don't want you to feel uncomfortable. And
Speaker 1: I mean he's just a he's just a Hillard's eighty seven,
Speaker 1: but he's probably fifty years behind the times in terms
Speaker 1: of just his knowledge of I mean, he's like a
Speaker 1: guy that you plucked out of the nineteen forties.
Speaker 3: You had a long conversation with him after Yousuk.
Speaker 1: Yeah, he took the headsets off and then talked about
Speaker 1: all the things we wanted to talk about. He had
Speaker 1: no problem telling me and just talking to us, but
Speaker 1: he just didn't want to be recorded. He just was like,
Speaker 1: I just don't want to be recorded. I mean, yeah,
Speaker 1: So It's not like we hadn't tried to get Hillard.
Speaker 3: Now.
Speaker 1: Now, Hillard's younger brother also your uncle, Willarard. He loves
Speaker 1: to be recorded. I don't want to make it sound
Speaker 1: like he loves to be recorded. But just today, this year,
Speaker 1: there's going to be a film that comes out about
Speaker 1: our bear Camp and we made sorghum. I'll show you
Speaker 1: all a clip of it. Nobody's seen it, but anyway,
Speaker 1: you're gonna get to see Hillard Vallins, which is y'all's
Speaker 1: uncle war Willard excuse.
Speaker 4: Me, Willard Junior Willard and any boy boy.
Speaker 1: Yeah that's what. That's what everybody knows me as a
Speaker 1: sonny boy. But uh so, anyway, yeah, a lot of
Speaker 1: tie ins with you guys. I mean, getting to know
Speaker 1: you guys has been just incredible. I mean just it's
Speaker 1: been a lot of fun. And then our other buddy,
Speaker 1: my buddy justin House is like y'all's little brother who's.
Speaker 2: Become a good friend of mine.
Speaker 1: Y'all just gang up and whoop him.
Speaker 3: Though.
Speaker 2: My youngest daughter and I he won't even listen to this.
Speaker 1: Whatever you want.
Speaker 2: My youngest daughter and I are going to his house
Speaker 2: on Sunday, we're gonna ride mules.
Speaker 3: Oh really yep.
Speaker 1: Yeah ah no yeah So anyway, thank you guys, we've
Speaker 1: been going this is long long time. Well thanks a lot,
Speaker 1: and uh anything else. Keep the Wild.
Speaker 2: Check out the Real Bear Grease Instagram Real Bear.
Speaker 1: Yeah, we have a new Instagram channel, Page two. I
Speaker 1: forgotten say that. Yep, yep. See if we can get
Speaker 1: Hillard Lines to like us on Instagram. If the Wild
Speaker 1: places wild because that's where the bears live.