1 00:00:03,560 --> 00:00:05,560 Speaker 1: Now if you you know, and I've had people, you know, 2 00:00:05,600 --> 00:00:07,200 Speaker 1: if I say something, they're like, oh my gosh, do 3 00:00:07,200 --> 00:00:09,400 Speaker 1: you have a good therapist? And I think, wow, that 4 00:00:09,520 --> 00:00:12,280 Speaker 1: was such a missed opportunity. You kind have asked me 5 00:00:12,320 --> 00:00:15,280 Speaker 1: a connection question, like wow, that seems really hard. What 6 00:00:15,320 --> 00:00:17,480 Speaker 1: are you doing about that? Or what's what's your next step? 7 00:00:17,600 --> 00:00:19,680 Speaker 2: Or there's the training right there. 8 00:00:19,720 --> 00:00:22,400 Speaker 1: That's right, because as soon as you tell me, first 9 00:00:22,440 --> 00:00:24,439 Speaker 1: of all, you don't know my history with therapy. You 10 00:00:24,480 --> 00:00:26,239 Speaker 1: don't know if i've you know, you don't know my 11 00:00:26,280 --> 00:00:28,080 Speaker 1: family history with therapy. You don't know how I feel 12 00:00:28,080 --> 00:00:30,240 Speaker 1: about therapists. I gonna be terrible, you know, afraid of them. 13 00:00:30,280 --> 00:00:32,000 Speaker 1: I could be. You think that it's all you know, 14 00:00:32,760 --> 00:00:35,680 Speaker 1: it's a nonscience. But you also aren't taking into account 15 00:00:35,800 --> 00:00:39,559 Speaker 1: that you just escalated our interaction. You just told me 16 00:00:39,840 --> 00:00:46,080 Speaker 1: that my stuff's way too big for you. 17 00:00:46,159 --> 00:00:49,800 Speaker 2: Welcome to an army of normal folks. I'm Bill Courtney. 18 00:00:50,240 --> 00:00:53,120 Speaker 2: I'm a normal guy. I'm a husband, I'm a father, 19 00:00:53,280 --> 00:00:56,400 Speaker 2: I'm an entrepreneur, and I've been a football coach in 20 00:00:56,400 --> 00:00:59,720 Speaker 2: inner city Memphis. And that last part it's somehow led 21 00:00:59,720 --> 00:01:02,680 Speaker 2: to an oscar for the film about our team. That 22 00:01:02,800 --> 00:01:08,320 Speaker 2: movie's called Undefeated, y'all. I believe our country's problems can 23 00:01:08,600 --> 00:01:11,679 Speaker 2: never be solved by a bunch of fancy people in 24 00:01:11,800 --> 00:01:15,200 Speaker 2: nice suits talking big words that nobody ever uses on 25 00:01:15,319 --> 00:01:20,440 Speaker 2: CNN and Fox, but rather by an army of normal folks, US, 26 00:01:21,120 --> 00:01:23,520 Speaker 2: just you and me deciding, Hey, you know what I 27 00:01:23,560 --> 00:01:27,240 Speaker 2: can help. That's what doctor Trina Clay, you the voice 28 00:01:27,280 --> 00:01:30,959 Speaker 2: you just heard, has done. She's the CEO of Give 29 00:01:31,120 --> 00:01:35,960 Speaker 2: an Hour, which started by encouraging therapists to donate an 30 00:01:36,080 --> 00:01:40,200 Speaker 2: hour of therapy a week to military service members, veterans, 31 00:01:40,280 --> 00:01:44,040 Speaker 2: and their families. But then they realize that for every 32 00:01:44,120 --> 00:01:47,440 Speaker 2: single therapist that we have in the United States, there 33 00:01:47,440 --> 00:01:51,680 Speaker 2: are three hundred and fifty people looking for that very 34 00:01:51,720 --> 00:01:55,440 Speaker 2: type of support, and so therapists giving an hour or 35 00:01:55,480 --> 00:01:59,400 Speaker 2: even recruiting more therapists into the field could never meet 36 00:01:59,760 --> 00:02:02,960 Speaker 2: all of the country's mental health needs. And as you 37 00:02:03,120 --> 00:02:06,720 Speaker 2: just heard, therapists aren't always the best solution for every 38 00:02:06,800 --> 00:02:09,400 Speaker 2: person or need out there. So they came up with 39 00:02:09,440 --> 00:02:12,600 Speaker 2: a solution that I cannot wait for you to hear about. 40 00:02:13,120 --> 00:02:17,560 Speaker 2: Right after these brief messages from our general sponsors. 41 00:02:28,080 --> 00:02:30,280 Speaker 1: I had the mom and the dad, I had an 42 00:02:30,320 --> 00:02:33,520 Speaker 1: older brother. I have an older brother, and you know, 43 00:02:33,639 --> 00:02:36,240 Speaker 1: I think just like anybody, I mean, you have like 44 00:02:36,360 --> 00:02:40,160 Speaker 1: an incredible I have incredible memories and feelings from that time. 45 00:02:40,520 --> 00:02:42,960 Speaker 1: I think I also had a lot of you know, 46 00:02:43,040 --> 00:02:45,280 Speaker 1: just like anyone, any adversities that you know that you're 47 00:02:45,360 --> 00:02:48,320 Speaker 1: kind of troubling through that pop up at different time 48 00:02:48,320 --> 00:02:50,560 Speaker 1: times in your life as you're on your journey. And 49 00:02:50,639 --> 00:02:54,320 Speaker 1: so I had I think if any way it would 50 00:02:54,360 --> 00:02:56,480 Speaker 1: ask you, I was like, quite kid. I did the school, 51 00:02:56,600 --> 00:02:58,359 Speaker 1: I did the sports, I did kind of all the 52 00:02:58,440 --> 00:03:00,480 Speaker 1: right things, and then you know, eventually I just kind 53 00:03:00,480 --> 00:03:03,560 Speaker 1: of push pretty hard. And so I moved out while 54 00:03:03,560 --> 00:03:05,480 Speaker 1: I was still in high school, and I was like 55 00:03:05,560 --> 00:03:07,760 Speaker 1: ready to take on the world. 56 00:03:08,480 --> 00:03:11,360 Speaker 2: Did you really you left home in high school? Yeah? 57 00:03:11,480 --> 00:03:13,320 Speaker 1: Yeah, my mother is still a little devastated by it, 58 00:03:13,360 --> 00:03:17,400 Speaker 1: but yes, and no, like I just once I decide something, 59 00:03:17,840 --> 00:03:19,760 Speaker 1: the thing is happening, and I just and I do 60 00:03:19,800 --> 00:03:23,320 Speaker 1: it without usually anyone knowing either. So it's not a 61 00:03:23,360 --> 00:03:24,120 Speaker 1: lot of leaders too. 62 00:03:24,320 --> 00:03:25,760 Speaker 2: There's some independence over there. 63 00:03:25,840 --> 00:03:28,200 Speaker 1: There's something there I don't know, and uh, it still 64 00:03:28,200 --> 00:03:30,600 Speaker 1: crops up every now and again in different ways. And 65 00:03:30,680 --> 00:03:34,120 Speaker 1: so I think that I know when I've hit something 66 00:03:34,160 --> 00:03:36,760 Speaker 1: that is a driver for me, and then there's no 67 00:03:36,840 --> 00:03:37,920 Speaker 1: other thing that I can see. 68 00:03:38,000 --> 00:03:39,440 Speaker 2: Do you mind tell me why you moved out? 69 00:03:40,600 --> 00:03:43,800 Speaker 1: I think, you know, in retrospect, I could probably see 70 00:03:44,080 --> 00:03:46,360 Speaker 1: a lot of the family dynamics that I probably had 71 00:03:46,400 --> 00:03:48,680 Speaker 1: that you know, growing up in Northern Iahoe and in 72 00:03:48,720 --> 00:03:52,280 Speaker 1: the seventies and eighties, I didn't have probably the skill 73 00:03:52,320 --> 00:03:55,400 Speaker 1: sets for the coping skills for my family didn't have it. 74 00:03:55,960 --> 00:03:58,960 Speaker 1: And so I think I felt and I you know, again, 75 00:03:59,080 --> 00:04:01,360 Speaker 1: this has no relationship to my work now, but you 76 00:04:01,360 --> 00:04:03,640 Speaker 1: know it's a relevant part is I had developed a 77 00:04:03,720 --> 00:04:06,680 Speaker 1: lot of like childhood anxiety, which of course nobody knew 78 00:04:06,680 --> 00:04:09,160 Speaker 1: what anxiety was in the seventies and eighties. But I 79 00:04:09,200 --> 00:04:11,520 Speaker 1: think that that was kind of my first pop of 80 00:04:11,600 --> 00:04:13,960 Speaker 1: like this is my coping skill, which is I'm going 81 00:04:14,040 --> 00:04:17,080 Speaker 1: to kind of I'm going to go, I'm going to 82 00:04:17,120 --> 00:04:19,960 Speaker 1: remove myself, I'm going to go into something else. And 83 00:04:20,000 --> 00:04:21,839 Speaker 1: so I think that's something I've had a curb over 84 00:04:21,880 --> 00:04:22,600 Speaker 1: my lifetime. 85 00:04:23,440 --> 00:04:25,680 Speaker 2: Actually, I think that really is interesting when we get 86 00:04:25,720 --> 00:04:27,440 Speaker 2: to to give. 87 00:04:27,320 --> 00:04:29,240 Speaker 1: It was very difficult for me to just go through that. 88 00:04:29,279 --> 00:04:32,719 Speaker 1: You can tell, yeah, I was like and done. 89 00:04:33,560 --> 00:04:35,920 Speaker 2: I can tell that's hard for you to talk about, 90 00:04:36,040 --> 00:04:40,839 Speaker 2: but and I don't want to pray too much, but 91 00:04:40,880 --> 00:04:43,200 Speaker 2: you also said it still kills my mom today, So 92 00:04:44,640 --> 00:04:47,880 Speaker 2: there's something there. But the whole point is, again I'm 93 00:04:47,880 --> 00:04:50,640 Speaker 2: not trying to dig deep into your psyche, but I 94 00:04:50,720 --> 00:04:54,080 Speaker 2: do think that's interesting. Once we talked to give an 95 00:04:54,120 --> 00:04:59,800 Speaker 2: hour and we'll get to that in a minute. Trina 96 00:05:00,000 --> 00:05:02,239 Speaker 2: went on to serve as a leader and all kinds 97 00:05:02,240 --> 00:05:07,839 Speaker 2: of social impact organizations, including workforce training, community college systems, 98 00:05:07,880 --> 00:05:11,240 Speaker 2: and helping with military spouse employment. 99 00:05:14,080 --> 00:05:16,839 Speaker 1: So you know, and I know you know you're right 100 00:05:16,880 --> 00:05:18,919 Speaker 1: because like the social impact, and I think it's always 101 00:05:18,920 --> 00:05:20,240 Speaker 1: a little bit of a challenge when you do this 102 00:05:20,320 --> 00:05:22,160 Speaker 1: type of work because everybody knows what business is. But 103 00:05:22,200 --> 00:05:24,200 Speaker 1: when you talk about nonprofits or you talk about the 104 00:05:24,279 --> 00:05:28,559 Speaker 1: education space, it comes already kind of prepackaged for folks 105 00:05:28,600 --> 00:05:30,920 Speaker 1: when they engage with it, it's like, oh, nonprofit means 106 00:05:30,960 --> 00:05:31,440 Speaker 1: not very good. 107 00:05:31,480 --> 00:05:33,920 Speaker 2: That's what I mean by gooey. Right, Right, it's sticky, 108 00:05:34,200 --> 00:05:38,080 Speaker 2: But what is it? And it's not exactly something firm 109 00:05:38,200 --> 00:05:40,240 Speaker 2: you understand when you hear it, right. 110 00:05:40,279 --> 00:05:42,479 Speaker 1: Or it comes with like so much connotation it's like, oh, 111 00:05:42,560 --> 00:05:43,680 Speaker 1: it's not as good as business. 112 00:05:44,440 --> 00:05:47,080 Speaker 2: The Golden sounds on a corner free to this. 113 00:05:47,760 --> 00:05:49,680 Speaker 1: All the works for free, because they're just the hurts 114 00:05:49,680 --> 00:05:49,919 Speaker 1: in it. 115 00:05:49,960 --> 00:05:52,599 Speaker 2: And it's like, but that's not what I get from you. 116 00:05:52,600 --> 00:05:53,800 Speaker 2: You would be doing so. 117 00:05:54,000 --> 00:05:56,440 Speaker 1: Yes, it's not what folks sign into. And so what 118 00:05:56,480 --> 00:05:58,520 Speaker 1: I think that you know, part of it is is 119 00:05:58,560 --> 00:06:01,039 Speaker 1: that I was looking for that place for government and 120 00:06:01,160 --> 00:06:04,920 Speaker 1: business couldn't solve for they can't solve independently for a 121 00:06:04,920 --> 00:06:09,920 Speaker 1: social problem. But I think you're navigating this space between 122 00:06:10,200 --> 00:06:15,799 Speaker 1: all of these things. You're having to almost translate what's 123 00:06:15,839 --> 00:06:18,800 Speaker 1: meaningful to business and how that matters. If you know, 124 00:06:18,880 --> 00:06:20,880 Speaker 1: if just for instance, I did a lot of work 125 00:06:20,880 --> 00:06:25,120 Speaker 1: in workforce development, working with young adults eighteen to well 126 00:06:25,200 --> 00:06:27,480 Speaker 1: sixteen to twenty four year old who were push out, 127 00:06:27,480 --> 00:06:30,200 Speaker 1: fade out, drop out from school. So I ran a 128 00:06:30,520 --> 00:06:34,000 Speaker 1: education and workforce center so on the by, you know, 129 00:06:34,240 --> 00:06:37,839 Speaker 1: just generally nobody cared that much about our young people. 130 00:06:37,880 --> 00:06:40,080 Speaker 1: They cared that they weren't breaking in their cars, they 131 00:06:40,160 --> 00:06:43,200 Speaker 1: cared about they weren't down in the downtown area where 132 00:06:43,240 --> 00:06:45,880 Speaker 1: all the customers were, but they didn't see it as 133 00:06:45,880 --> 00:06:48,960 Speaker 1: a viable part of their workforce. And they had workforce problems, 134 00:06:49,000 --> 00:06:52,039 Speaker 1: workforce shortages, and so you're really that person in the 135 00:06:52,080 --> 00:06:55,400 Speaker 1: in between who is trying to you know, knit to 136 00:06:55,440 --> 00:06:58,159 Speaker 1: the distance between. This is actually a problem that you have. 137 00:06:58,360 --> 00:07:00,320 Speaker 1: This is a solution you have. It doesn't look like 138 00:07:00,360 --> 00:07:02,880 Speaker 1: the solution that maybe you thought you needed. But if 139 00:07:02,920 --> 00:07:06,279 Speaker 1: we work together, we could help solve four, not solve all, 140 00:07:06,320 --> 00:07:08,760 Speaker 1: but solve for some of the workforce issues that you 141 00:07:08,880 --> 00:07:12,360 Speaker 1: have and and benefit these individuals will not be down 142 00:07:12,400 --> 00:07:14,480 Speaker 1: in the you know, down in the downtown area or 143 00:07:14,520 --> 00:07:15,360 Speaker 1: still in your cars. 144 00:07:16,200 --> 00:07:19,000 Speaker 2: So you see that as social impact, well. 145 00:07:18,760 --> 00:07:20,880 Speaker 1: I do, because I think you have to have a 146 00:07:20,920 --> 00:07:24,600 Speaker 1: business mind for what you do, I mean fundraising, trying 147 00:07:24,640 --> 00:07:26,680 Speaker 1: to get in these places and spaces. This is not 148 00:07:27,000 --> 00:07:31,440 Speaker 1: simple work. And you have to be able to understand 149 00:07:32,200 --> 00:07:36,400 Speaker 1: and be alongside people who are the ones who are 150 00:07:36,520 --> 00:07:38,960 Speaker 1: not benefiting from the systems the way that they are 151 00:07:39,080 --> 00:07:41,720 Speaker 1: for whatever in a variety of reasons. And so I 152 00:07:41,720 --> 00:07:44,760 Speaker 1: think spending time with people people in poverty, people who 153 00:07:44,800 --> 00:07:48,520 Speaker 1: are low wealth, people are low educated, people who are 154 00:07:48,800 --> 00:07:52,600 Speaker 1: don't maybe necessarily have all the same opportunities. When you 155 00:07:52,680 --> 00:07:56,680 Speaker 1: get to know people, you have no other distance besides 156 00:07:56,800 --> 00:07:59,440 Speaker 1: advocating for them, and so you really are bringing these 157 00:07:59,480 --> 00:08:02,840 Speaker 1: things together. There go you had a look say it. 158 00:08:04,720 --> 00:08:09,800 Speaker 2: Just recently we released on Tuesdays, we release our normal episodes. 159 00:08:10,600 --> 00:08:15,360 Speaker 2: On Friday, we release our episode ets and they're called 160 00:08:15,480 --> 00:08:18,760 Speaker 2: shop Talk, and a recent one was on what I 161 00:08:18,840 --> 00:08:21,480 Speaker 2: call living in a vacuum, and if you live in 162 00:08:21,520 --> 00:08:24,440 Speaker 2: a vacuum, you can't grow. And what that means is 163 00:08:24,480 --> 00:08:27,080 Speaker 2: when you surround yourself with people who look look like you, 164 00:08:27,240 --> 00:08:30,160 Speaker 2: who love like you, who worship like you, who vote 165 00:08:30,200 --> 00:08:32,720 Speaker 2: like you, and who believe just like you. That every 166 00:08:32,760 --> 00:08:35,840 Speaker 2: conversation you have a circular and therefore all of your 167 00:08:35,880 --> 00:08:38,920 Speaker 2: thought is in a vacuum. And what you just said 168 00:08:39,080 --> 00:08:42,079 Speaker 2: is what I yeally challenge everybody in my word it 169 00:08:42,200 --> 00:08:45,440 Speaker 2: to do, which is get outside of that vacuum and 170 00:08:45,480 --> 00:08:49,760 Speaker 2: surround yourself with people who don't look, vote, worship, love, 171 00:08:49,840 --> 00:08:53,199 Speaker 2: and act just like you, because that's where the real 172 00:08:53,280 --> 00:08:56,199 Speaker 2: growth for not only the people you seek to serve, 173 00:08:56,600 --> 00:08:59,680 Speaker 2: but also you happens. And that's what you just said. 174 00:09:00,080 --> 00:09:03,559 Speaker 1: Different way, it's so true. And you know, I think 175 00:09:03,559 --> 00:09:06,560 Speaker 1: there's such simple things that we put to characters, so 176 00:09:06,640 --> 00:09:10,400 Speaker 1: we think, oh, a person in poverty, Now I know 177 00:09:10,480 --> 00:09:12,240 Speaker 1: everything I need to know about that person. But when 178 00:09:12,280 --> 00:09:15,600 Speaker 1: you get to know people, then you find out all 179 00:09:15,679 --> 00:09:18,040 Speaker 1: the other pieces to it and you have a more complete, 180 00:09:18,480 --> 00:09:21,040 Speaker 1: you know, person. But I do find that the clipping 181 00:09:21,080 --> 00:09:23,760 Speaker 1: of folks or this like tight narrative or you know. 182 00:09:23,800 --> 00:09:25,280 Speaker 1: And that's what I think a lot of my work 183 00:09:25,320 --> 00:09:28,960 Speaker 1: has been is taking on these narratives that institutions have 184 00:09:29,080 --> 00:09:32,920 Speaker 1: also taken on. And so I won't call it the institutions, 185 00:09:32,960 --> 00:09:36,040 Speaker 1: but I'm thinking like big governmental institutions. I'll use the 186 00:09:36,040 --> 00:09:38,640 Speaker 1: Social Security Office just because that's an easy one, because 187 00:09:38,640 --> 00:09:40,920 Speaker 1: I guess I can use a personal experience too. When 188 00:09:40,920 --> 00:09:43,280 Speaker 1: I go into the Social Security Office and the way 189 00:09:43,320 --> 00:09:45,880 Speaker 1: that I am engaged with from the moment I walked in. 190 00:09:46,600 --> 00:09:49,880 Speaker 1: I can tell you that people with middle class who 191 00:09:49,920 --> 00:09:52,800 Speaker 1: have some power, who have you know, who feel like 192 00:09:52,800 --> 00:09:56,800 Speaker 1: they have a voice in things, don't appreciate the way 193 00:09:56,840 --> 00:09:58,480 Speaker 1: that you're engaged with when you walk in the Social 194 00:09:58,480 --> 00:10:02,120 Speaker 1: Security Office. Can you imagine people who don't have the 195 00:10:02,200 --> 00:10:04,760 Speaker 1: ability to say because they need they need the service, 196 00:10:04,800 --> 00:10:06,280 Speaker 1: they need the thing they need to get in there. 197 00:10:06,559 --> 00:10:09,000 Speaker 1: And I think that part of what I've done, and 198 00:10:09,000 --> 00:10:12,319 Speaker 1: then what I've surrounded myself is taking on those systems 199 00:10:12,360 --> 00:10:14,840 Speaker 1: because we take on people harder than we take on 200 00:10:14,880 --> 00:10:18,760 Speaker 1: the systems that we all know don't work. Aren't people friendly, 201 00:10:18,920 --> 00:10:21,439 Speaker 1: aren't trying to solve real problems, and they're trying to 202 00:10:21,480 --> 00:10:24,320 Speaker 1: solve general problems. But that doesn't help the person who's 203 00:10:24,320 --> 00:10:26,040 Speaker 1: sitting in front of you to solve a general problem. 204 00:10:26,160 --> 00:10:28,600 Speaker 1: So I think of things like that, like I am 205 00:10:28,720 --> 00:10:33,760 Speaker 1: wanting to take I want to penetrate where those systems 206 00:10:33,760 --> 00:10:36,120 Speaker 1: aren't working. It's not that the system is inherently bad, 207 00:10:36,400 --> 00:10:39,000 Speaker 1: it's that the system is not necessarily working for people 208 00:10:39,040 --> 00:10:41,600 Speaker 1: who have individual needs. And I think you can do 209 00:10:41,840 --> 00:10:43,480 Speaker 1: I know you can do it. I don't even think 210 00:10:43,520 --> 00:10:43,960 Speaker 1: you can do that. 211 00:10:44,360 --> 00:10:49,760 Speaker 2: What is military spouse employment? What is that? Yeah, it 212 00:10:49,800 --> 00:10:52,960 Speaker 2: was you did that at one time. That one interests me. 213 00:10:53,240 --> 00:10:56,200 Speaker 1: Yeah, And I think again, you're you're working this conduit 214 00:10:56,280 --> 00:10:59,199 Speaker 1: between people who don't necessarily value Like we all think 215 00:10:59,240 --> 00:11:01,679 Speaker 1: we know what a military spouses. It's like, oh, that's 216 00:11:01,720 --> 00:11:05,920 Speaker 1: that's adorable. You're a military spouse, like you're yeah, that's 217 00:11:05,960 --> 00:11:07,000 Speaker 1: how you're very that's like. 218 00:11:06,960 --> 00:11:10,480 Speaker 2: A Southern Oh, bless your heart. It's it's it's almost 219 00:11:11,320 --> 00:11:12,679 Speaker 2: it's almost condescending. 220 00:11:13,040 --> 00:11:15,679 Speaker 1: Yes, yes, I had actually have a picture of a 221 00:11:15,679 --> 00:11:18,319 Speaker 1: place that used to go in North Carolina and it 222 00:11:18,400 --> 00:11:20,800 Speaker 1: said the Dependent Center, and that was a spouse. So 223 00:11:20,840 --> 00:11:23,559 Speaker 1: you were you're formed as a dependent. You're either you're 224 00:11:23,600 --> 00:11:25,360 Speaker 1: either being sponsored, you're a dependent. 225 00:11:25,679 --> 00:11:28,079 Speaker 2: The language itself, the language. 226 00:11:27,880 --> 00:11:31,240 Speaker 1: Is what tries to shape the behavior and the way 227 00:11:31,240 --> 00:11:33,199 Speaker 1: in which you get to show up in those spaces. 228 00:11:33,559 --> 00:11:36,280 Speaker 1: And your spouse is you know, is the person right, 229 00:11:36,360 --> 00:11:38,520 Speaker 1: and then you are all the other things. And there's 230 00:11:38,720 --> 00:11:42,959 Speaker 1: a very silent not intentional and not even like anything 231 00:11:43,080 --> 00:11:44,960 Speaker 1: that I could say is like negative, but there's a 232 00:11:45,040 --> 00:11:48,640 Speaker 1: silent system that kind of shapes how as a spouse 233 00:11:48,679 --> 00:11:50,839 Speaker 1: you get to show up in certain spaces. No one 234 00:11:50,880 --> 00:11:54,120 Speaker 1: says it, and so you're you know, there's some expectations 235 00:11:54,120 --> 00:11:56,120 Speaker 1: on you, which again I don't think I was incredibly 236 00:11:56,120 --> 00:11:57,959 Speaker 1: I came in very late into that. I don't think 237 00:11:57,960 --> 00:12:02,520 Speaker 1: it was incredibly amenable to it. But I also saw 238 00:12:02,559 --> 00:12:05,160 Speaker 1: how much it affected people. So part of what we 239 00:12:05,240 --> 00:12:08,200 Speaker 1: did though is to work with military spouses to help 240 00:12:08,440 --> 00:12:12,000 Speaker 1: and again highly educated, you know, because many of them 241 00:12:12,040 --> 00:12:14,280 Speaker 1: are not able. You know, you go to like I 242 00:12:14,320 --> 00:12:16,080 Speaker 1: went to Clovis, New Mexico. There's not a lot of 243 00:12:16,080 --> 00:12:19,920 Speaker 1: employment for me in Clobes, New Mexico not a lot, 244 00:12:20,000 --> 00:12:21,800 Speaker 1: and so they tend to go back to school. They 245 00:12:21,840 --> 00:12:25,080 Speaker 1: become highly educated, they got multiple degrees, lots of certificates, 246 00:12:25,080 --> 00:12:28,520 Speaker 1: but a really hard time finding meaning for them, meaningful 247 00:12:28,559 --> 00:12:31,800 Speaker 1: employment and certainly not meaningful employment when people are like, oh, 248 00:12:32,120 --> 00:12:34,199 Speaker 1: and I've had them say this, you're a military spouse. 249 00:12:34,200 --> 00:12:35,679 Speaker 1: You're only going to be here for a couple of years, 250 00:12:35,760 --> 00:12:37,240 Speaker 1: so I'm not going to hire you. So I take 251 00:12:37,240 --> 00:12:39,400 Speaker 1: off my wedding ring. I did all the things. I 252 00:12:39,440 --> 00:12:42,440 Speaker 1: had everything as generic as possible so you couldn't see 253 00:12:42,440 --> 00:12:45,720 Speaker 1: how much I was moving around. And you know, I 254 00:12:45,760 --> 00:12:48,559 Speaker 1: think what I wanted to do was help smooth that 255 00:12:48,880 --> 00:12:52,040 Speaker 1: for other military spouses, but also help educate employers about 256 00:12:52,040 --> 00:12:55,800 Speaker 1: the benefit because again, these will be high functioning, high 257 00:12:55,840 --> 00:13:00,400 Speaker 1: achieving professionals who will also be incredibly loyal and the expectation. 258 00:13:00,280 --> 00:13:02,960 Speaker 2: I'd say, what about the loyalty factor. Isn't it just 259 00:13:04,000 --> 00:13:07,000 Speaker 2: embedded in that per particular community. 260 00:13:07,000 --> 00:13:10,520 Speaker 1: I think that absolutely. I think that and no one 261 00:13:10,559 --> 00:13:13,000 Speaker 1: else do. You are forced to make some sort of 262 00:13:13,000 --> 00:13:15,679 Speaker 1: three year or five year commitment to your organization. If 263 00:13:15,679 --> 00:13:17,280 Speaker 1: you're just Joe Blow, you don't know that. Joe Blow 264 00:13:17,320 --> 00:13:19,160 Speaker 1: didn't just come up take a job, and he's already 265 00:13:19,160 --> 00:13:21,320 Speaker 1: looking at your job, or he's looking at using this 266 00:13:21,360 --> 00:13:23,719 Speaker 1: as a stepping stone. So again I go back to 267 00:13:23,760 --> 00:13:26,839 Speaker 1: like the narration out there, but it's very difficult to 268 00:13:26,880 --> 00:13:29,320 Speaker 1: say military spouse and have people go like, wow, I 269 00:13:29,400 --> 00:13:32,439 Speaker 1: really value that. That is incredible. I'd love to hire you. 270 00:13:32,520 --> 00:13:35,040 Speaker 1: It's it's definitely you have to do a lot more upselling. 271 00:13:36,080 --> 00:13:38,680 Speaker 2: So as I hear all of these different things before 272 00:13:38,760 --> 00:13:43,120 Speaker 2: give an hour, it's kind of clear to me, well, no, 273 00:13:43,600 --> 00:13:47,960 Speaker 2: I'm assuming or I'm gathering better word gathering. It only 274 00:13:47,960 --> 00:13:49,719 Speaker 2: took three chances, but I think I got to the 275 00:13:49,760 --> 00:13:55,960 Speaker 2: word I wanted gathering. That you could have left Gonzaga 276 00:13:55,960 --> 00:14:00,360 Speaker 2: with this Doctor of Leadership thing and probably to work 277 00:14:00,360 --> 00:14:02,960 Speaker 2: some fortune five hundred companies. I'm sure there's people that 278 00:14:03,120 --> 00:14:07,439 Speaker 2: do that because they're looking for leadership people and leadership roles. 279 00:14:07,840 --> 00:14:12,720 Speaker 2: But you, on the other hand, wanted to use that 280 00:14:13,240 --> 00:14:18,120 Speaker 2: preparedness and education to have some measure of change in communities, 281 00:14:18,200 --> 00:14:21,200 Speaker 2: whether they are one community or another. That's kind of 282 00:14:21,640 --> 00:14:25,680 Speaker 2: where you bumped along. It looks like until you started, 283 00:14:27,680 --> 00:14:29,880 Speaker 2: you did what you do now. I mean, is that right? 284 00:14:30,120 --> 00:14:30,880 Speaker 2: Is that where your. 285 00:14:30,760 --> 00:14:33,840 Speaker 1: Heart is absolutely and I think bumped along is a 286 00:14:33,840 --> 00:14:35,760 Speaker 1: good way. You know, I came up as a first 287 00:14:35,760 --> 00:14:39,000 Speaker 1: generation college student, so I bumped along a lot of these. 288 00:14:39,240 --> 00:14:41,440 Speaker 2: Really, nobody in your family had ever gone to college, 289 00:14:41,600 --> 00:14:44,240 Speaker 2: and I had, and then you were a doctor went away. 290 00:14:44,800 --> 00:14:47,760 Speaker 1: Oh my gosh. Between a graduation high school, graduation in college, 291 00:14:47,800 --> 00:14:49,960 Speaker 1: I mean it was like two years. And then I 292 00:14:50,000 --> 00:14:51,800 Speaker 1: took quite a bit on my undergrad you know, my 293 00:14:51,840 --> 00:14:53,600 Speaker 1: parents had gotten divorced, and you know, there was a 294 00:14:53,680 --> 00:14:55,640 Speaker 1: lot of things that had gone down that you know 295 00:14:55,680 --> 00:14:58,600 Speaker 1: that I kind of extended out. But even even my 296 00:15:00,240 --> 00:15:03,840 Speaker 1: a master's program, I didn't know what public administration policy was. 297 00:15:03,880 --> 00:15:05,520 Speaker 1: I heard someone say it and I was like, sounds great. 298 00:15:05,560 --> 00:15:07,880 Speaker 1: I need to get a master's grace so that expize 299 00:15:07,920 --> 00:15:11,040 Speaker 1: how I rolled into these things, So again would have 300 00:15:11,040 --> 00:15:13,920 Speaker 1: been helpful. So any great advice out there is, you know, 301 00:15:14,200 --> 00:15:16,920 Speaker 1: do some planning ahead of time. But I think the 302 00:15:16,960 --> 00:15:20,440 Speaker 1: bump along was I never deviated and I always try 303 00:15:20,480 --> 00:15:22,840 Speaker 1: to figure. I think I was always attracted to the 304 00:15:22,880 --> 00:15:29,600 Speaker 1: most complex systems that seem impenetrable. They seem like they're 305 00:15:29,680 --> 00:15:32,920 Speaker 1: just so set that this is it. I worked in prisons, 306 00:15:33,240 --> 00:15:35,080 Speaker 1: and it's not like there's you know, people are going 307 00:15:35,080 --> 00:15:37,560 Speaker 1: in and thinking like, how do we revolutionize this? I mean, 308 00:15:37,600 --> 00:15:39,640 Speaker 1: you do have pockets of folks, but it kind of 309 00:15:39,720 --> 00:15:42,880 Speaker 1: is what it is. And so for me, I wanted 310 00:15:42,920 --> 00:15:46,200 Speaker 1: to go where it felt extreme and it felt intractable, 311 00:15:46,720 --> 00:15:48,960 Speaker 1: and to see, like, what kind of change can you 312 00:15:49,000 --> 00:15:52,400 Speaker 1: affect in a really thoughtful, genuine way where you are 313 00:15:52,960 --> 00:15:56,440 Speaker 1: leveraging what you can learn from people to try to 314 00:15:56,520 --> 00:15:59,880 Speaker 1: un really unwind and then reconstruct those systems. 315 00:16:01,520 --> 00:16:03,200 Speaker 2: Well, that makes a lot of sense when you get 316 00:16:03,240 --> 00:16:15,640 Speaker 2: to give an hour and now a few messages from 317 00:16:15,680 --> 00:16:18,440 Speaker 2: our general sponsors. But first I got something really cool 318 00:16:18,520 --> 00:16:22,840 Speaker 2: to tell you about. 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We'll be right back. 341 00:18:19,359 --> 00:18:21,400 Speaker 1: But in two thousand and five we were founded by 342 00:18:21,480 --> 00:18:25,320 Speaker 1: a child psychologist, doctor de Barbara Van Dalen, and I 343 00:18:25,400 --> 00:18:29,639 Speaker 1: think that again, an incredible human being, just all you 344 00:18:29,680 --> 00:18:31,639 Speaker 1: know in all respects. But what I think was so 345 00:18:31,800 --> 00:18:35,880 Speaker 1: interesting is that she really took this to look around corners, 346 00:18:36,280 --> 00:18:38,280 Speaker 1: and I think that's what wasn't happening in two thousand 347 00:18:38,280 --> 00:18:40,080 Speaker 1: and five. So you think about, like how this conversation 348 00:18:40,119 --> 00:18:42,040 Speaker 1: around mental health is now, which again I think is 349 00:18:42,160 --> 00:18:44,840 Speaker 1: very big, and it's very muddy, and it's you know, 350 00:18:44,880 --> 00:18:48,400 Speaker 1: it's a little messy, and there's a ton of interest there. 351 00:18:48,440 --> 00:18:50,719 Speaker 1: But I also think if you've couch used in two 352 00:18:50,760 --> 00:18:53,520 Speaker 1: thousand and five, what she was looking at was there 353 00:18:53,520 --> 00:18:56,240 Speaker 1: are not enough people in her profession mental health therapists 354 00:18:56,359 --> 00:19:00,000 Speaker 1: or mental health professionals. And it was in direct respec 355 00:19:00,000 --> 00:19:03,160 Speaker 1: once to nine to eleven. So we were seeing like, really, now. 356 00:19:03,160 --> 00:19:05,680 Speaker 2: I didn't get that. I didn't know that that's interesting. 357 00:19:05,440 --> 00:19:07,800 Speaker 1: Which I think again just like really took a look 358 00:19:07,840 --> 00:19:12,360 Speaker 1: out of population that is under resource underserved. Again, we're 359 00:19:12,359 --> 00:19:16,200 Speaker 1: talking two thousand and five and the stigma for mental 360 00:19:16,200 --> 00:19:20,280 Speaker 1: health care coming into a war. What were we going 361 00:19:20,320 --> 00:19:22,240 Speaker 1: to do? Like, really, what are you going to do 362 00:19:22,320 --> 00:19:24,800 Speaker 1: with this? And the other piece that she had in 363 00:19:24,880 --> 00:19:28,119 Speaker 1: there was it was active duty veterans and their loved ones. 364 00:19:28,520 --> 00:19:31,080 Speaker 1: And I think that was such an incredible again foresight 365 00:19:31,240 --> 00:19:34,199 Speaker 1: to really set up the stage to say this is 366 00:19:34,280 --> 00:19:37,200 Speaker 1: not a veteran challenge, this is not an active duty challenge. 367 00:19:37,200 --> 00:19:39,880 Speaker 1: This is a family challenge, and the loved one has 368 00:19:39,920 --> 00:19:41,840 Speaker 1: got to play an essential part. And I think you'll 369 00:19:41,840 --> 00:19:44,920 Speaker 1: see over time that the loved one in many factors 370 00:19:44,920 --> 00:19:49,600 Speaker 1: has not been held in the same just held as 371 00:19:49,640 --> 00:19:52,800 Speaker 1: close to this as it should be. It hasn't been 372 00:19:52,800 --> 00:19:53,800 Speaker 1: brought in every time. 373 00:19:54,080 --> 00:19:58,159 Speaker 2: So just parphries two thousand and one, we send a 374 00:19:58,160 --> 00:19:59,880 Speaker 2: bunch of people to war. In two thousand and five, 375 00:20:00,040 --> 00:20:04,160 Speaker 2: were looking at all of these folks, including loved ones, 376 00:20:04,240 --> 00:20:09,399 Speaker 2: that are affected military service, and there's more need than 377 00:20:09,440 --> 00:20:12,320 Speaker 2: there are therapists, yeah, I think for sure. 378 00:20:12,400 --> 00:20:14,280 Speaker 1: And there was a lot more stigma, and there was 379 00:20:14,280 --> 00:20:18,040 Speaker 1: a lot more organizational barriers, so we were a barrier free, 380 00:20:18,160 --> 00:20:21,760 Speaker 1: so it means free to them, confidential, and no one's 381 00:20:21,800 --> 00:20:25,760 Speaker 1: going to tell anyone that you're there, because that was 382 00:20:25,880 --> 00:20:29,000 Speaker 1: at that time, there is a narrative that you're probably 383 00:20:29,000 --> 00:20:31,000 Speaker 1: going to lose your job in the military. People are 384 00:20:31,000 --> 00:20:33,600 Speaker 1: going to think you're crazy, you're not going to be 385 00:20:33,680 --> 00:20:36,480 Speaker 1: able to promote. And I'm not going to say that 386 00:20:36,520 --> 00:20:39,399 Speaker 1: those things weren't true. It really didn't matter because that 387 00:20:39,520 --> 00:20:41,480 Speaker 1: was the prevailing wisdom of the military. 388 00:20:41,640 --> 00:20:43,280 Speaker 2: Perception is reception, right. 389 00:20:43,160 --> 00:20:45,639 Speaker 1: So it didn't matter. Now, I will say the military 390 00:20:45,800 --> 00:20:49,119 Speaker 1: has been phenomenal when when they got on board with 391 00:20:49,200 --> 00:20:51,040 Speaker 1: mental health just like they do with any kind of 392 00:20:51,080 --> 00:20:53,520 Speaker 1: social thing they take on. They take it fully on, 393 00:20:53,600 --> 00:20:56,119 Speaker 1: but you know, we're just kind of encapsulating that time. 394 00:20:56,520 --> 00:20:59,439 Speaker 1: So what she did was she rallied across the country. 395 00:20:59,440 --> 00:21:02,480 Speaker 1: We've always been the national Mental Health organization mental health 396 00:21:02,480 --> 00:21:06,040 Speaker 1: professionals to give an hour of clinical, free clinical care 397 00:21:06,160 --> 00:21:11,959 Speaker 1: to that population, and it rallied people across the country. 398 00:21:12,000 --> 00:21:14,720 Speaker 1: We have had and we continue to have therapists in 399 00:21:14,760 --> 00:21:18,080 Speaker 1: every state across the country who's still give an hour 400 00:21:18,160 --> 00:21:22,520 Speaker 1: of their time and there's no insurance, there's no payment. 401 00:21:23,040 --> 00:21:25,400 Speaker 1: It is a connection between them and it's unlimited, which 402 00:21:25,440 --> 00:21:28,280 Speaker 1: I think is another thing that again goes back to 403 00:21:28,400 --> 00:21:30,480 Speaker 1: like a system that should be that I know for 404 00:21:30,520 --> 00:21:33,119 Speaker 1: a lot of reason can't be. But military often and 405 00:21:33,160 --> 00:21:36,239 Speaker 1: many populations have this takes many times to meet with 406 00:21:36,280 --> 00:21:39,960 Speaker 1: someone before there's a level of comfortability to then like 407 00:21:40,119 --> 00:21:42,320 Speaker 1: really start getting into the meat of why you're there. 408 00:21:42,600 --> 00:21:46,040 Speaker 1: And if you have three sessions, six sessions, twelve sessions, 409 00:21:46,240 --> 00:21:48,080 Speaker 1: you may have used half of them just trying to 410 00:21:48,119 --> 00:21:50,480 Speaker 1: see is this person going to be But not every 411 00:21:50,480 --> 00:21:52,400 Speaker 1: therapist is a good fit for the person. Not every 412 00:21:52,400 --> 00:21:54,920 Speaker 1: person's good fit for the therapist. So what I loved 413 00:21:55,040 --> 00:21:58,160 Speaker 1: is that we made that created that space for them 414 00:21:58,280 --> 00:22:02,200 Speaker 1: to work that out, and so it became I mean 415 00:22:02,560 --> 00:22:04,640 Speaker 1: that there was nothing like it, and I still think 416 00:22:04,760 --> 00:22:08,680 Speaker 1: what we offer now there's nothing like. And so so 417 00:22:08,760 --> 00:22:11,280 Speaker 1: that that's the genus genesis. 418 00:22:10,920 --> 00:22:14,400 Speaker 2: Which is get rid of the stigma, remove barriers, and 419 00:22:14,680 --> 00:22:18,520 Speaker 2: therapists giving an hour of their time to these military 420 00:22:18,560 --> 00:22:23,800 Speaker 2: personnel plus their family if needed, because I know the 421 00:22:23,800 --> 00:22:26,840 Speaker 2: family dynamic when a guy comes back or lady comes 422 00:22:26,880 --> 00:22:31,280 Speaker 2: back from war, that person waiting, the person that comes 423 00:22:31,320 --> 00:22:33,520 Speaker 2: back to him four years later is more times than 424 00:22:33,520 --> 00:22:34,480 Speaker 2: not the same. 425 00:22:34,320 --> 00:22:37,240 Speaker 1: Person that will and neither's that spouse or that child 426 00:22:37,359 --> 00:22:38,960 Speaker 1: or yeah, well family. 427 00:22:38,720 --> 00:22:42,240 Speaker 2: And sometimes that child was six months old when somebody left, 428 00:22:42,280 --> 00:22:43,720 Speaker 2: and now you got a five year old, and how 429 00:22:43,720 --> 00:22:48,160 Speaker 2: do you reintroduce that. So there's a lot, but there's 430 00:22:48,160 --> 00:22:51,640 Speaker 2: still one part. You told me at the top, there's 431 00:22:51,800 --> 00:22:57,080 Speaker 2: not enough therapist for the people that need therapy. So 432 00:22:57,200 --> 00:22:59,399 Speaker 2: even though you got therapists giving an hour, don't we 433 00:22:59,480 --> 00:23:02,399 Speaker 2: have a whole lot more demand than we have supply. 434 00:23:02,720 --> 00:23:05,240 Speaker 1: Yeah? Yeah, if you look at like the national numbers, 435 00:23:05,280 --> 00:23:08,080 Speaker 1: it's one one therapist for every three hundred and fifty people. 436 00:23:08,359 --> 00:23:10,880 Speaker 1: I mean, I looked at at like Phoenix Metro, it's 437 00:23:10,880 --> 00:23:13,720 Speaker 1: one for every like six hundred and eighty, Like that's a. 438 00:23:13,920 --> 00:23:16,640 Speaker 2: One for six. There's one therapist for ever six hundred 439 00:23:16,680 --> 00:23:17,640 Speaker 2: eighty and phasis one. 440 00:23:17,600 --> 00:23:20,720 Speaker 1: Random spot that I looked at. And then forty seven 441 00:23:20,720 --> 00:23:24,199 Speaker 1: percent of the country is in a workplace shortage for 442 00:23:24,480 --> 00:23:27,280 Speaker 1: mental health support. So think of that, almost half the 443 00:23:27,320 --> 00:23:31,080 Speaker 1: country does not have access to mental health. Rural America, 444 00:23:31,480 --> 00:23:34,720 Speaker 1: you know, areas that that are small, small cities, so 445 00:23:34,880 --> 00:23:38,560 Speaker 1: how and you know, again, therapy is a very personal thing. 446 00:23:38,720 --> 00:23:42,480 Speaker 1: So if you live in one really rural community, I 447 00:23:42,480 --> 00:23:45,240 Speaker 1: mean not only is there often stigma, there's you know 448 00:23:45,359 --> 00:23:47,719 Speaker 1: this small town you don't want everybody knowing your business. 449 00:23:47,800 --> 00:23:50,920 Speaker 2: Go back to northern Ohio, Idaho. Yeah, how many people 450 00:23:50,960 --> 00:23:53,119 Speaker 2: are going to go to the therapy? Yeah, especially in 451 00:23:53,119 --> 00:23:55,760 Speaker 2: a smaller right that whereby nos of business every. 452 00:23:55,640 --> 00:23:58,399 Speaker 1: Absolutely, and it's very you know, like hunting, fishing, like 453 00:23:58,440 --> 00:24:01,880 Speaker 1: pull up bootstraps, like there's so much kind of cultures 454 00:24:01,960 --> 00:24:05,399 Speaker 1: like social culture around it too. And then you you know, 455 00:24:05,480 --> 00:24:08,480 Speaker 1: you think you can't just I can't pull somebody from Boise, Idaho, 456 00:24:08,720 --> 00:24:11,120 Speaker 1: which again there's a rivalry Boise is down here. Who 457 00:24:11,240 --> 00:24:13,800 Speaker 1: leans up here those two. You know, they think Bois 458 00:24:13,920 --> 00:24:16,320 Speaker 1: is the most like liberal like it's just you know, 459 00:24:16,520 --> 00:24:19,440 Speaker 1: hippiach everywhere, right, you've probably been to Bois. 460 00:24:19,440 --> 00:24:22,639 Speaker 2: People nor they're not. They get people boys here liberal 461 00:24:22,800 --> 00:24:26,399 Speaker 2: right liberal absolutely, and so where people in LA people 462 00:24:26,960 --> 00:24:30,040 Speaker 2: think people are boiser conservatives sticks. 463 00:24:29,720 --> 00:24:31,760 Speaker 1: That band, right, Yeah, perspective. 464 00:24:35,280 --> 00:24:40,120 Speaker 2: There are industries and professions that we just don't have enough. 465 00:24:40,280 --> 00:24:43,480 Speaker 2: There's not enough people going into education, I mean, to 466 00:24:43,600 --> 00:24:47,360 Speaker 2: meet the need. There's certainly the way things are. There's 467 00:24:47,359 --> 00:24:49,800 Speaker 2: not enough people going to law enforcement to meet the 468 00:24:49,920 --> 00:24:53,200 Speaker 2: needs of the law enforcement across the country. There's these 469 00:24:53,320 --> 00:24:56,600 Speaker 2: kind of things, and I'm just thinking about one in 470 00:24:56,800 --> 00:25:01,520 Speaker 2: three hundred and fifty. There's there's there cannot be enough 471 00:25:01,600 --> 00:25:07,320 Speaker 2: people in therapy currently and being trained in therapy, whether psychiatry, psychology, 472 00:25:07,480 --> 00:25:11,440 Speaker 2: social work, whatever, that's meeting the need. So there is 473 00:25:11,680 --> 00:25:15,080 Speaker 2: need going unsatisfied. 474 00:25:14,840 --> 00:25:17,720 Speaker 1: Of course, and I would even put an argument that 475 00:25:18,960 --> 00:25:21,960 Speaker 1: it can't be solved by just adding therapists because not 476 00:25:23,320 --> 00:25:26,000 Speaker 1: you know, just like any profession, not all teachers are 477 00:25:26,000 --> 00:25:28,399 Speaker 1: created alike, not all therapists are created like, and not 478 00:25:28,520 --> 00:25:31,879 Speaker 1: all therapists are the therapists that we need for some 479 00:25:32,000 --> 00:25:34,399 Speaker 1: of the conditions that we have. So I think that 480 00:25:35,480 --> 00:25:38,720 Speaker 1: generating more therapists I mean is part of a strategy. 481 00:25:39,080 --> 00:25:40,680 Speaker 1: It just can't be part of a solution. And we 482 00:25:40,840 --> 00:25:42,920 Speaker 1: put so much on the backs of therapists to solve 483 00:25:43,320 --> 00:25:45,960 Speaker 1: mental health. I'll say crisis, but do you think we 484 00:25:46,040 --> 00:25:48,440 Speaker 1: have a human connection crisis? But the mental health crisis 485 00:25:49,240 --> 00:25:52,879 Speaker 1: is that we can't just necessarily say more therapists because 486 00:25:52,920 --> 00:25:55,720 Speaker 1: that doesn't mean better therapists, quality therapists, or therapists that 487 00:25:55,800 --> 00:25:59,399 Speaker 1: people can even access. And so they are part of 488 00:25:59,440 --> 00:26:03,240 Speaker 1: a solution and they play an essential role. And I 489 00:26:03,320 --> 00:26:05,560 Speaker 1: think that part of what we have worked on is 490 00:26:05,680 --> 00:26:08,600 Speaker 1: like what else do people actually want need that we 491 00:26:08,720 --> 00:26:09,840 Speaker 1: can provise, Which. 492 00:26:09,720 --> 00:26:12,480 Speaker 2: Is really the incredible part of this, which is give 493 00:26:12,520 --> 00:26:17,040 Speaker 2: an hour from the beginning, unto itself is awesome, convincing 494 00:26:17,119 --> 00:26:19,440 Speaker 2: therapists to give an hour their time and expertise to 495 00:26:19,520 --> 00:26:23,000 Speaker 2: help people who needed so they can avoid the stigma 496 00:26:23,600 --> 00:26:26,439 Speaker 2: and get the help they need along with their family. 497 00:26:27,080 --> 00:26:30,520 Speaker 2: That in and of itself is awesome, But that's not 498 00:26:30,760 --> 00:26:33,159 Speaker 2: really the story. That's not only the story is the 499 00:26:33,280 --> 00:26:36,680 Speaker 2: creativity that you guys took from your experience there and 500 00:26:36,880 --> 00:26:37,840 Speaker 2: parlayed into. 501 00:26:37,720 --> 00:26:41,520 Speaker 1: What you're doing now, which is we were coming up against, 502 00:26:41,600 --> 00:26:44,440 Speaker 1: like therapy isn't for everyone. You don't take into account 503 00:26:44,480 --> 00:26:47,840 Speaker 1: people's culture. You don't take account their neighborhood and the 504 00:26:47,920 --> 00:26:50,960 Speaker 1: socialization of going to therapy. You don't take an account 505 00:26:51,040 --> 00:26:53,680 Speaker 1: that my young gang member probably isn't going to go 506 00:26:53,960 --> 00:26:56,720 Speaker 1: sit in a therapist's office and feel like this is 507 00:26:56,800 --> 00:27:00,240 Speaker 1: his space, and so what else is there? And so 508 00:27:00,400 --> 00:27:02,159 Speaker 1: when we really started looking and we're like, you know what, 509 00:27:02,240 --> 00:27:05,000 Speaker 1: peer support has been around centuries. It's not like it's 510 00:27:05,040 --> 00:27:08,400 Speaker 1: a new concept and really came from communities of color. 511 00:27:08,440 --> 00:27:10,879 Speaker 1: And I always want to give, you know, the recognition 512 00:27:11,080 --> 00:27:13,040 Speaker 1: there is that this is how communities who have been 513 00:27:13,080 --> 00:27:16,560 Speaker 1: disinvested have always helped each other and always showed up 514 00:27:16,600 --> 00:27:19,480 Speaker 1: for each other. Now what we're doing is really trying 515 00:27:19,600 --> 00:27:22,600 Speaker 1: to make it feel like they can even have more 516 00:27:22,960 --> 00:27:23,840 Speaker 1: feel more equipped. 517 00:27:24,119 --> 00:27:27,720 Speaker 2: But see there's where my first blush, I got a 518 00:27:27,760 --> 00:27:31,159 Speaker 2: little lost. Oh sorry, but then I came back to it. 519 00:27:31,520 --> 00:27:34,920 Speaker 2: But I think it's important. That's a great segue to this. 520 00:27:35,720 --> 00:27:41,399 Speaker 2: My concern was peer support's great, but what if the 521 00:27:41,520 --> 00:27:47,760 Speaker 2: peer support is not good support? And I don't mean 522 00:27:48,040 --> 00:27:52,280 Speaker 2: like putting an alcoholic in a room for guys who 523 00:27:52,320 --> 00:27:54,520 Speaker 2: are alcoholics who are still doing alcohol. I don't mean that. 524 00:27:54,840 --> 00:27:59,720 Speaker 2: I mean the advice and the mentorship being given is 525 00:28:01,240 --> 00:28:04,800 Speaker 2: or advice you can actually make things worse for somebody, sure, 526 00:28:05,000 --> 00:28:09,680 Speaker 2: for sure. But then I read about your five indicators 527 00:28:09,800 --> 00:28:13,680 Speaker 2: and what you do with the peers, and to me, 528 00:28:14,000 --> 00:28:17,080 Speaker 2: that's part of the secret sauce. Can you talk about that? 529 00:28:17,520 --> 00:28:19,639 Speaker 1: Yeah? Yeah, I think I think you're right. I mean, 530 00:28:19,680 --> 00:28:22,840 Speaker 1: we people don't generally want our advice, right, they want 531 00:28:22,960 --> 00:28:24,840 Speaker 1: a connection. I think what we're trying to really do. 532 00:28:24,960 --> 00:28:28,160 Speaker 2: No, that's that's also really true. People generally don't really 533 00:28:28,200 --> 00:28:32,760 Speaker 2: want your advice. They just what's the old adage, nobody 534 00:28:34,119 --> 00:28:36,880 Speaker 2: cares how let you know until they know how much 535 00:28:36,920 --> 00:28:37,240 Speaker 2: you care. 536 00:28:38,440 --> 00:28:40,280 Speaker 1: And that is and I think part of what we're 537 00:28:40,280 --> 00:28:43,720 Speaker 1: trying to do is re equip people with that. Like 538 00:28:43,840 --> 00:28:45,480 Speaker 1: some of it, I feel like, you know, you have 539 00:28:45,760 --> 00:28:47,280 Speaker 1: we care about people, and we care about people we 540 00:28:47,360 --> 00:28:49,080 Speaker 1: care about, right, I don't care about people we don't 541 00:28:49,080 --> 00:28:50,720 Speaker 1: care about I mean it is you know, so you're 542 00:28:50,760 --> 00:28:53,920 Speaker 1: really trying to find, like though, is trying to understand 543 00:28:53,960 --> 00:28:57,400 Speaker 1: people's stories, which to me is more of the population 544 00:28:57,520 --> 00:28:58,480 Speaker 1: based context. 545 00:28:58,680 --> 00:28:58,840 Speaker 2: Right. 546 00:28:58,960 --> 00:29:02,320 Speaker 1: A veteran is a context. It doesn't mean that's every 547 00:29:02,400 --> 00:29:05,040 Speaker 1: veteran story, but I want to learn about that so 548 00:29:05,360 --> 00:29:08,760 Speaker 1: I can bring that into another veteran to compare it, 549 00:29:08,880 --> 00:29:12,800 Speaker 1: not compare, but to integrate that context into the way 550 00:29:12,880 --> 00:29:15,160 Speaker 1: that they see the world and how they can use 551 00:29:15,240 --> 00:29:18,000 Speaker 1: their experience to help someone else. So it's really more 552 00:29:18,120 --> 00:29:22,320 Speaker 1: about connecting and looking for connection points rather than saying 553 00:29:22,520 --> 00:29:24,360 Speaker 1: the right thing, because I can tell you nobody's going 554 00:29:24,440 --> 00:29:26,240 Speaker 1: to know what that is, Like I don't know what 555 00:29:26,320 --> 00:29:28,960 Speaker 1: the right thing to say, but I can help you 556 00:29:29,360 --> 00:29:33,600 Speaker 1: show up in a way that that person feels connected 557 00:29:33,640 --> 00:29:36,840 Speaker 1: to you, feels heard, feels listened, and we could teach 558 00:29:36,880 --> 00:29:39,240 Speaker 1: you some things like some impulse controls that you want 559 00:29:39,320 --> 00:29:41,160 Speaker 1: to do, which is I want to give you great advice, 560 00:29:41,280 --> 00:29:44,000 Speaker 1: I want to tell you about my story. I want 561 00:29:44,240 --> 00:29:46,920 Speaker 1: you know, to tell you what you should go do, 562 00:29:47,560 --> 00:29:50,720 Speaker 1: rather than trying to teach people to stay in this conversation. 563 00:29:51,000 --> 00:29:53,720 Speaker 1: And we've created a tool and we were testing out 564 00:29:53,760 --> 00:29:56,400 Speaker 1: with the military last week just to see like how 565 00:29:56,480 --> 00:29:58,360 Speaker 1: does this tool work in your life, And it was 566 00:29:58,760 --> 00:30:01,120 Speaker 1: how to keep in a seven minute conversation. And it's 567 00:30:01,160 --> 00:30:03,400 Speaker 1: more of a framework. It's just like a way of 568 00:30:03,520 --> 00:30:06,480 Speaker 1: containing things for people to say, could you stay in 569 00:30:06,600 --> 00:30:10,480 Speaker 1: a conversation that isn't advice, that isn't jumping ahead, that 570 00:30:10,600 --> 00:30:13,080 Speaker 1: isn't disclosing all of your things, to one up them 571 00:30:13,720 --> 00:30:16,120 Speaker 1: for seven minutes and to see if it can kind 572 00:30:16,120 --> 00:30:20,280 Speaker 1: of reduce the need to be thinking ahead and jumping ahead, 573 00:30:20,600 --> 00:30:22,880 Speaker 1: but rather like you're just on the journey next to 574 00:30:23,000 --> 00:30:25,680 Speaker 1: them and part of it. So you mentioned the five signs, 575 00:30:25,680 --> 00:30:28,000 Speaker 1: so one of it is gives helps give people language. 576 00:30:28,000 --> 00:30:29,920 Speaker 1: So I could say, you know, I know your baseline. 577 00:30:30,120 --> 00:30:32,160 Speaker 1: I've known you for you know, a short period of time. 578 00:30:32,240 --> 00:30:34,360 Speaker 1: But I could say, here's your baseline from what I 579 00:30:34,440 --> 00:30:36,680 Speaker 1: can observe, And then I could say, you know what 580 00:30:36,920 --> 00:30:38,960 Speaker 1: today you seem you just don't seem like you have 581 00:30:39,040 --> 00:30:42,520 Speaker 1: the same energy. You seem really withdrawn. That's a language 582 00:30:42,600 --> 00:30:45,360 Speaker 1: that I could put out there rather than coming at 583 00:30:45,400 --> 00:30:47,440 Speaker 1: it either with more of like a judgment or just 584 00:30:47,520 --> 00:30:50,080 Speaker 1: seeing something and not saying anything, like I can see 585 00:30:50,120 --> 00:30:51,960 Speaker 1: a shift in you, but I'm not saying anything. So 586 00:30:52,040 --> 00:30:53,720 Speaker 1: what I think it helps is to give people really 587 00:30:53,760 --> 00:30:56,720 Speaker 1: simple and this came from our PSA in twenty fifteen, 588 00:30:57,200 --> 00:30:58,880 Speaker 1: is like, here's the simple language I could say, you 589 00:30:58,920 --> 00:31:02,600 Speaker 1: look withdrawn, you seem agitated. I've noticed that, you know, 590 00:31:02,640 --> 00:31:04,120 Speaker 1: you don't seem like you're taking you You're not going 591 00:31:04,160 --> 00:31:06,040 Speaker 1: to the gym as much, you're not taking care of yourself. 592 00:31:06,160 --> 00:31:08,480 Speaker 1: Those are all signs that I just need to pay 593 00:31:08,520 --> 00:31:12,800 Speaker 1: attention to you and then start to ask some questions. 594 00:31:12,960 --> 00:31:16,360 Speaker 1: And we teach also kind of overcoming some of the resistance, 595 00:31:16,520 --> 00:31:18,840 Speaker 1: like that I'm fine. You know that's people's natural is 596 00:31:18,920 --> 00:31:21,160 Speaker 1: like oh no, I'm fine, and it's like, well, how 597 00:31:21,200 --> 00:31:22,520 Speaker 1: do you overcome some of those. 598 00:31:25,800 --> 00:31:38,240 Speaker 2: We'll be right back. So people that want to give 599 00:31:38,280 --> 00:31:43,000 Speaker 2: an hour are then taught to look for these five 600 00:31:43,120 --> 00:31:46,800 Speaker 2: things and conversations or in the people they're working with. 601 00:31:47,880 --> 00:31:50,840 Speaker 2: You don't have to be you can be anybody, but 602 00:31:50,960 --> 00:31:53,280 Speaker 2: if you're anybody that wants to, we're going to teach 603 00:31:53,320 --> 00:31:56,800 Speaker 2: you these five things to just look for. And these 604 00:31:56,880 --> 00:32:02,320 Speaker 2: five things are ways to maybe communicate in a way 605 00:32:02,360 --> 00:32:06,520 Speaker 2: that is not personal judgmental, but also probably open ended. 606 00:32:06,760 --> 00:32:09,280 Speaker 2: I would expect to allow the people you're talking with 607 00:32:09,400 --> 00:32:11,200 Speaker 2: the respond sure, is that right? 608 00:32:11,440 --> 00:32:14,280 Speaker 1: Absolutely? And you're right it can be you know, we've 609 00:32:14,320 --> 00:32:17,120 Speaker 1: done this for employers. It's like that mid level supervisor. 610 00:32:17,600 --> 00:32:20,680 Speaker 1: You know, how if that person notices. Again, you're looking 611 00:32:20,720 --> 00:32:23,080 Speaker 1: at maybe at a performance thing, but you also notice 612 00:32:23,120 --> 00:32:25,960 Speaker 1: a change in that behavior. You can come and attack 613 00:32:26,000 --> 00:32:28,680 Speaker 1: it at the performance level, and I can tell you're 614 00:32:28,680 --> 00:32:30,800 Speaker 1: probably going to get a different show up on that person, 615 00:32:30,960 --> 00:32:34,720 Speaker 1: right because now you've in some respect you've threatened their livelihood, 616 00:32:34,760 --> 00:32:37,600 Speaker 1: their job, their stability in that organization. But if you 617 00:32:37,760 --> 00:32:40,800 Speaker 1: came at it to say, hey, I've just noticed over time, 618 00:32:41,000 --> 00:32:42,600 Speaker 1: like you know, you don't seem like you're not really 619 00:32:42,680 --> 00:32:45,200 Speaker 1: talking all the team we have team meetings, You're not 620 00:32:45,240 --> 00:32:47,560 Speaker 1: speaking up. You seem a little bit withdrawn. You know, 621 00:32:47,640 --> 00:32:49,560 Speaker 1: I'd love to just find out, like what's going on. 622 00:32:50,920 --> 00:32:54,480 Speaker 1: That is a different conversation than if I start just 623 00:32:54,720 --> 00:32:56,600 Speaker 1: throw you know, leveling up or adding up on your 624 00:32:56,640 --> 00:32:58,720 Speaker 1: performance to say you're not getting stuffed done in time? 625 00:32:58,960 --> 00:33:01,600 Speaker 1: You know, it depends. I always think like you're always 626 00:33:01,600 --> 00:33:03,640 Speaker 1: are looking for, like what is the goal, and the 627 00:33:03,720 --> 00:33:06,520 Speaker 1: goal is to find out what's happening so you can 628 00:33:07,080 --> 00:33:10,320 Speaker 1: address it to get and hopefully together. But I think 629 00:33:10,400 --> 00:33:14,120 Speaker 1: that it gives a language that we don't use right now, 630 00:33:14,360 --> 00:33:16,440 Speaker 1: and so we just see an issue and we're kind 631 00:33:16,440 --> 00:33:19,520 Speaker 1: of attacking the issue rather than going to the person 632 00:33:19,760 --> 00:33:21,440 Speaker 1: to just like really try to work with them. And 633 00:33:21,440 --> 00:33:23,600 Speaker 1: I think that's why peer support is so effective, and 634 00:33:23,680 --> 00:33:27,600 Speaker 1: it's it's very reciprocal. And we have a population that 635 00:33:27,640 --> 00:33:29,920 Speaker 1: we've worked with for many years, which was the Las 636 00:33:30,000 --> 00:33:32,560 Speaker 1: Vegas mass shooting in twenty seventeen. 637 00:33:32,720 --> 00:33:34,320 Speaker 2: I was going to ask about that. I think it's 638 00:33:34,360 --> 00:33:37,800 Speaker 2: a great example. No, go, it's a great example of 639 00:33:37,840 --> 00:33:38,520 Speaker 2: what you're talking. 640 00:33:38,520 --> 00:33:42,640 Speaker 1: I think it's a fantastic one because after that, sixty 641 00:33:42,840 --> 00:33:44,840 Speaker 1: sixty five percent of the people who were in Vegas 642 00:33:44,880 --> 00:33:49,160 Speaker 1: at that concert, actually we're from southern California. So the 643 00:33:49,240 --> 00:33:52,440 Speaker 1: next day, including one of our employees, got up, went 644 00:33:52,720 --> 00:33:56,440 Speaker 1: to California, and all the resources for this shooting and 645 00:33:56,520 --> 00:33:59,040 Speaker 1: memorials and the events and the money and the victim 646 00:33:59,120 --> 00:34:03,120 Speaker 1: services all went to police base to Las Vegas. And 647 00:34:03,240 --> 00:34:06,680 Speaker 1: you had several years that these individuals across seven counties 648 00:34:06,720 --> 00:34:08,960 Speaker 1: of southern California just went back to their day and 649 00:34:09,040 --> 00:34:10,160 Speaker 1: went back to their life. 650 00:34:10,320 --> 00:34:18,000 Speaker 2: But harboring the trauma and the I mean, can you 651 00:34:18,120 --> 00:34:23,160 Speaker 2: imagine that? Can you imagine having been diving behind barriers, 652 00:34:23,280 --> 00:34:26,040 Speaker 2: not knowing where the bullets are coming from. At one 653 00:34:26,160 --> 00:34:29,800 Speaker 2: minute you're having a blast at a concert in Vegas, 654 00:34:29,880 --> 00:34:32,600 Speaker 2: of all places living it up, having a blast, and 655 00:34:32,800 --> 00:34:36,520 Speaker 2: literally it split second you hear noises, you see people 656 00:34:36,600 --> 00:34:42,720 Speaker 2: screaming and running. You're probably like not able to even 657 00:34:43,280 --> 00:34:47,040 Speaker 2: conceive of what's going on initially, and then you're diving 658 00:34:47,120 --> 00:34:50,839 Speaker 2: behind barriers and you're seeing people get shot and die, 659 00:34:51,719 --> 00:34:55,719 Speaker 2: police are going crazy. Nobody knows what's going on. And 660 00:34:55,840 --> 00:34:58,720 Speaker 2: then the next day you're supposed to go back to work. 661 00:35:00,480 --> 00:35:05,279 Speaker 1: Is trauma and you have no connection because they were 662 00:35:05,320 --> 00:35:06,000 Speaker 1: so spread out. 663 00:35:06,280 --> 00:35:08,759 Speaker 2: And that's what you're talking about now, is now you 664 00:35:08,840 --> 00:35:12,200 Speaker 2: have no connection to all of what's going on. So 665 00:35:12,360 --> 00:35:14,120 Speaker 2: not only are you traumatized, your. 666 00:35:14,000 --> 00:35:18,200 Speaker 1: Alone, absolutely your alone? And really, who do you tell, like, 667 00:35:18,560 --> 00:35:19,800 Speaker 1: how do you have a conversation? 668 00:35:19,960 --> 00:35:26,600 Speaker 2: Who can even who can even who can even understand 669 00:35:26,960 --> 00:35:31,200 Speaker 2: what you're going through? A therapist can certainly try, and 670 00:35:31,520 --> 00:35:35,480 Speaker 2: a friend could empathize, but there's no safety in you 671 00:35:35,760 --> 00:35:41,000 Speaker 2: really feeling what I feel. Right, So that's what you 672 00:35:41,160 --> 00:35:47,080 Speaker 2: try to train pure groups to do. You match people 673 00:35:47,200 --> 00:35:50,040 Speaker 2: that have the same trauma with people that don't, but 674 00:35:50,160 --> 00:35:53,560 Speaker 2: you teach them how to see the stressors in a 675 00:35:53,640 --> 00:35:55,440 Speaker 2: way to talk about it right. 676 00:35:56,040 --> 00:35:59,160 Speaker 1: And yes, and that group when when we finally were 677 00:35:59,400 --> 00:36:02,120 Speaker 1: able and requested to come in and you know it 678 00:36:02,640 --> 00:36:07,160 Speaker 1: and into yeah, into Inventory County, California to bring people together. 679 00:36:07,200 --> 00:36:09,919 Speaker 1: And again this has been unaddressed for a very long time, 680 00:36:10,120 --> 00:36:12,200 Speaker 1: and so even just finding the people because there's a 681 00:36:12,239 --> 00:36:15,600 Speaker 1: lot of rules around you know, who are victims and confidentiality, 682 00:36:15,680 --> 00:36:17,800 Speaker 1: So there was a lot of upfront work just to 683 00:36:17,920 --> 00:36:21,960 Speaker 1: get access to the population. And one year later, one 684 00:36:22,040 --> 00:36:24,319 Speaker 1: year and one month later, there was a second there 685 00:36:24,400 --> 00:36:27,120 Speaker 1: was a mass shooting Inventory County where several of the 686 00:36:27,160 --> 00:36:28,640 Speaker 1: people who were in the first one were in the 687 00:36:28,680 --> 00:36:31,759 Speaker 1: second one and was in It was at a bar 688 00:36:31,840 --> 00:36:34,239 Speaker 1: and gryll on college night, and so one of our 689 00:36:34,280 --> 00:36:38,600 Speaker 1: employees was actually in both. And what her experience was 690 00:36:38,800 --> 00:36:41,719 Speaker 1: was that peer support was the support she needed. Now 691 00:36:41,760 --> 00:36:44,600 Speaker 1: it doesn't mean that it was at the exclusion of therapy, 692 00:36:45,280 --> 00:36:47,920 Speaker 1: but it has had the most profound effect on her. 693 00:36:48,000 --> 00:36:49,799 Speaker 1: And now she's of course leading all of our peer 694 00:36:49,840 --> 00:36:53,200 Speaker 1: support efforts. And I think what she and her and 695 00:36:53,719 --> 00:36:56,440 Speaker 1: other people who were in that similar situation were able 696 00:36:56,520 --> 00:36:59,920 Speaker 1: to say was she didn't have to start from za, 697 00:37:00,360 --> 00:37:03,719 Speaker 1: she doesn't have to explain everything, she doesn't have to 698 00:37:04,040 --> 00:37:07,279 Speaker 1: have an entire backstory, right, she could say something that 699 00:37:07,360 --> 00:37:09,239 Speaker 1: someone else is just like co signs right there. They 700 00:37:09,320 --> 00:37:11,920 Speaker 1: get it, they understand it. And what I loved is 701 00:37:12,000 --> 00:37:14,400 Speaker 1: that I think this is where one of the places 702 00:37:14,440 --> 00:37:16,840 Speaker 1: that we showed up, you know a way, and this 703 00:37:17,040 --> 00:37:19,000 Speaker 1: was our early work into peer support and why we 704 00:37:19,120 --> 00:37:21,840 Speaker 1: were like, this is something really magical is that we 705 00:37:22,080 --> 00:37:24,160 Speaker 1: continue to work with them. And they said, listen, we 706 00:37:24,239 --> 00:37:26,720 Speaker 1: want to do a I think it was the second 707 00:37:26,760 --> 00:37:28,839 Speaker 1: or third year anniversary. I think it was the third 708 00:37:28,920 --> 00:37:32,320 Speaker 1: year anniversary. We want to do a line dancing in 709 00:37:32,840 --> 00:37:35,879 Speaker 1: Thousand Oaks Park and we want the therapy dogs there, 710 00:37:35,960 --> 00:37:38,000 Speaker 1: and we want to paint rocks, and we want music 711 00:37:38,160 --> 00:37:41,480 Speaker 1: and beer. Because that was this was all from a country, 712 00:37:41,560 --> 00:37:43,400 Speaker 1: you know, that's what how they all kind of need 713 00:37:43,560 --> 00:37:48,000 Speaker 1: sounds fun, sounds fun. And guess what we did. We 714 00:37:48,680 --> 00:37:51,640 Speaker 1: created that whole thing to make sure that they had 715 00:37:51,719 --> 00:37:54,239 Speaker 1: that exp We co created it. They told us what 716 00:37:54,320 --> 00:37:55,879 Speaker 1: they want to need, how they wanted it to feel, 717 00:37:55,960 --> 00:37:59,040 Speaker 1: how they wanted people to show up, and they got 718 00:37:59,200 --> 00:38:01,399 Speaker 1: that and that was again, it's just like one piece 719 00:38:01,440 --> 00:38:04,160 Speaker 1: of your healing process. In the in between, they're meeting, 720 00:38:04,400 --> 00:38:07,480 Speaker 1: you know, weekly, they're meeting in person. They do ice 721 00:38:07,520 --> 00:38:10,440 Speaker 1: cream socials like they were doing things. But again, we 722 00:38:10,520 --> 00:38:12,799 Speaker 1: were just keep going back and you're kind of engineering 723 00:38:12,920 --> 00:38:15,440 Speaker 1: human connection. You're creating these conditions for people to come 724 00:38:15,520 --> 00:38:21,040 Speaker 1: together and recipically connect because if you get me and 725 00:38:21,160 --> 00:38:24,000 Speaker 1: I get you, like we are both kind of going 726 00:38:24,080 --> 00:38:27,279 Speaker 1: to be elevated in this energy. And if I say 727 00:38:27,320 --> 00:38:28,920 Speaker 1: something to you and you don't really react to the 728 00:38:29,000 --> 00:38:30,600 Speaker 1: same with me, like you're like, yeah, I don't know 729 00:38:30,640 --> 00:38:33,320 Speaker 1: anybody from northern Idaho, that just seems really weird. Like 730 00:38:33,520 --> 00:38:36,879 Speaker 1: there's there's a disconnection, right, So there's I think that's 731 00:38:37,040 --> 00:38:38,719 Speaker 1: really what we're focusing on is like how do you 732 00:38:38,880 --> 00:38:42,160 Speaker 1: keep maintaining that connection? And it has such a healing effect. 733 00:38:42,680 --> 00:38:45,200 Speaker 1: And now thirteen of the individuals that we're in that 734 00:38:45,280 --> 00:38:48,920 Speaker 1: peer group are now California certified Peer supporters, which we 735 00:38:49,000 --> 00:38:51,000 Speaker 1: were able to do through this work to get them 736 00:38:51,080 --> 00:38:53,359 Speaker 1: here to become trained peer support. 737 00:38:53,160 --> 00:38:54,680 Speaker 2: All again giving an hour. 738 00:38:55,239 --> 00:38:57,920 Speaker 1: Yeah, absolutely, and they're ready to show up for others. 739 00:38:57,960 --> 00:38:58,799 Speaker 1: So when you but. 740 00:38:59,120 --> 00:39:03,480 Speaker 2: Explain the certified because when you say that, immediately people think, oh, 741 00:39:03,560 --> 00:39:06,320 Speaker 2: they went to school. No, they didn't go to school. 742 00:39:06,440 --> 00:39:08,239 Speaker 2: You guys, we. 743 00:39:08,320 --> 00:39:10,879 Speaker 1: Provide a lot of training we would love to get 744 00:39:10,920 --> 00:39:13,279 Speaker 1: into certified and there's a couple of reasons why we 745 00:39:13,440 --> 00:39:15,879 Speaker 1: haven't done it yet. But the certifieds are going state 746 00:39:15,960 --> 00:39:18,080 Speaker 1: to state for the most part, and so they do 747 00:39:18,360 --> 00:39:21,719 Speaker 1: do like a whole education and they take exams and 748 00:39:22,040 --> 00:39:25,520 Speaker 1: do the thing is and it has that there is 749 00:39:26,320 --> 00:39:27,759 Speaker 1: And again this might be just a little bit of 750 00:39:27,800 --> 00:39:31,560 Speaker 1: my own my Jesuit schooling now is there's a part 751 00:39:31,600 --> 00:39:35,680 Speaker 1: of me that doesn't love for it to be commodified 752 00:39:36,440 --> 00:39:40,640 Speaker 1: or become a consumered product versus a product that comes 753 00:39:40,680 --> 00:39:43,960 Speaker 1: from people who use it. So what I like about 754 00:39:44,000 --> 00:39:46,560 Speaker 1: what we've created with our pair support work, and I 755 00:39:46,719 --> 00:39:48,759 Speaker 1: just saw it in action for the last couple of days, 756 00:39:49,400 --> 00:39:52,320 Speaker 1: is that there are tenants that you want to get across, 757 00:39:52,360 --> 00:39:55,160 Speaker 1: but it's their experience, whatever that experience. This happened to 758 00:39:55,239 --> 00:39:57,520 Speaker 1: be military, that one happens to be a mass shooting. 759 00:39:58,239 --> 00:40:00,120 Speaker 1: You are trying to help them make the connection and 760 00:40:00,200 --> 00:40:02,680 Speaker 1: some of their experience, and then you're putting the nuggets 761 00:40:02,680 --> 00:40:04,759 Speaker 1: in place about how does the five signs show up 762 00:40:04,800 --> 00:40:06,840 Speaker 1: for you? How could you lean into this conversation. What 763 00:40:06,920 --> 00:40:10,280 Speaker 1: are some of the complications of saying this to someone? 764 00:40:10,840 --> 00:40:13,320 Speaker 1: You know, what are your personal barrier for saying that? 765 00:40:13,760 --> 00:40:17,200 Speaker 1: So you're really trying to make it feel very connected 766 00:40:17,239 --> 00:40:20,120 Speaker 1: to them instead of sometimes you know, trainees can become 767 00:40:20,239 --> 00:40:22,399 Speaker 1: very prescriptive, like you need to show up this way. 768 00:40:22,719 --> 00:40:25,640 Speaker 1: What I love and what I heard is the nuance, 769 00:40:25,760 --> 00:40:27,880 Speaker 1: and the nuance is where all the magic happens, right, 770 00:40:27,920 --> 00:40:31,480 Speaker 1: because that's where it's interpersonal. I'll just give like one 771 00:40:31,520 --> 00:40:34,080 Speaker 1: brief example, but we were talking about with the military 772 00:40:34,120 --> 00:40:37,560 Speaker 1: about legal means and suicide risk and how to in 773 00:40:37,840 --> 00:40:40,080 Speaker 1: locking up. So there's you know, a big push around 774 00:40:40,200 --> 00:40:44,279 Speaker 1: education around separating people from their from a weapon, and 775 00:40:44,400 --> 00:40:47,840 Speaker 1: so there's different strategies. It's all very research based, but 776 00:40:47,960 --> 00:40:51,000 Speaker 1: when you actually talking to folks, you start to understand 777 00:40:52,160 --> 00:40:54,360 Speaker 1: the way in which either a they work around it 778 00:40:54,719 --> 00:40:58,120 Speaker 1: or be the complication, the innerpersonal complication, Like what if 779 00:40:58,160 --> 00:41:00,799 Speaker 1: I take someone's gun and I'm wrong it now they 780 00:41:00,840 --> 00:41:03,520 Speaker 1: can't get a promotion. That's a real thing that you 781 00:41:03,600 --> 00:41:06,399 Speaker 1: can't just address in a training that says answered these 782 00:41:06,440 --> 00:41:07,160 Speaker 1: five questions. 783 00:41:07,239 --> 00:41:08,160 Speaker 2: Yeah, that's interesting. 784 00:41:08,280 --> 00:41:10,800 Speaker 1: That's the stuff that I'm really interested because to me, 785 00:41:11,000 --> 00:41:13,560 Speaker 1: that's the in the moment decision that a person has 786 00:41:13,640 --> 00:41:17,080 Speaker 1: to make, and if you haven't equipped them together, like 787 00:41:17,200 --> 00:41:19,000 Speaker 1: how do we walk through this? How do we talk 788 00:41:19,040 --> 00:41:20,839 Speaker 1: through it? How do we dispel some of the things 789 00:41:20,920 --> 00:41:24,600 Speaker 1: about security clearances. You know, are they going to get 790 00:41:24,640 --> 00:41:28,400 Speaker 1: their security clearance taken? Well, the statistics says less than 791 00:41:28,400 --> 00:41:31,800 Speaker 1: one percent of people have a security clearance stripped, like 792 00:41:32,040 --> 00:41:36,200 Speaker 1: completely taken in the military for mental health. So once 793 00:41:36,239 --> 00:41:37,960 Speaker 1: you can address that, then you can go back and 794 00:41:38,040 --> 00:41:40,560 Speaker 1: have a different conversation with folks. So I think that's 795 00:41:40,719 --> 00:41:43,680 Speaker 1: where I go back to the nuances. You have to 796 00:41:43,719 --> 00:41:46,040 Speaker 1: really try to listen to people and understand what is 797 00:41:46,120 --> 00:41:48,160 Speaker 1: their day to day life like and how do you 798 00:41:48,320 --> 00:41:50,840 Speaker 1: make sure that you're equipping the peer support with the 799 00:41:50,920 --> 00:41:53,000 Speaker 1: skills that they actually want need day to day. 800 00:42:00,120 --> 00:42:04,000 Speaker 2: And that concludes part one of my conversation with doctor 801 00:42:04,040 --> 00:42:07,120 Speaker 2: Trina Clay, and you do not want to miss part 802 00:42:07,200 --> 00:42:10,759 Speaker 2: two that's now available to listen to. Together, guys, we 803 00:42:10,920 --> 00:42:15,520 Speaker 2: can change this country, but it starts with you. I'll 804 00:42:15,520 --> 00:42:16,359 Speaker 2: see in part two.