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Speaker 1: You're listening to a Live Again, a production of Psychopia

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Speaker 1: Pictures and iHeart Podcasts.

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Speaker 2: My name is Nate Dorn. When I was twenty three

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Speaker 2: years old, I was shipwrecked in Cuba. I had this

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Speaker 2: premonition happening my entire life. It knows exactly what it

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Speaker 2: meant until it actually happened. And then it happened, and

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Speaker 2: then I recognized it in hindsight, and and everything changed

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Speaker 2: or shifted after that. I have always enjoyed starting with death.

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Speaker 2: It makes me feel alive to feel like I almost died.

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Speaker 2: The the whole very double thing is I always about taking chances.

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Speaker 2: It's always about almost dying. But did you die? Not

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Speaker 2: that any always have a death wish, but it is

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Speaker 2: about suffering. It is about, like, you know, pushing yourself

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Speaker 2: and know your limits if there are any. You know,

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Speaker 2: if you didn't come close to dying, did you really live?

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Speaker 1: Welcome to a Live Again, A podcast that showcases miraculous

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Speaker 1: accounts of human fragility and resilience from people whose lives

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Speaker 1: were forever altered after having almost died. These are first

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Speaker 1: hand accounts of near death experiences and more broadly, brushes

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Speaker 1: with death. Our mission is simple find, explore, and share

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Speaker 1: these stories to remind us all of our shared human condition.

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Speaker 1: Please keep in mind these stories are true and maybe

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Speaker 1: triggering for some listener, and discretion is advised.

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Speaker 2: I am a freelance photographer, videographer, editor, writer. I love woodwork.

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Speaker 2: I love getting outside and doing things. Basically, I can

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Speaker 2: describe myself as a problem solver, like anything that I

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Speaker 2: can edit, like meaning my own life, anything I can

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Speaker 2: take a part in my brain and put it back

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Speaker 2: together in some sort of way. So troubleshooting is always

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Speaker 2: really fun to me. It's almost like a hobby. I've

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Speaker 2: always been a bit of a free spirit, so and

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Speaker 2: outdoors has always been huge to me. My parents would

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Speaker 2: take me camping growing up, and then to me off

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Speaker 2: from these outward bound type adventures going through high school,

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Speaker 2: and then I would do it myself. I would also

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Speaker 2: just take all my friends camping during high school, sometimes

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Speaker 2: every weekend for months and most of their time. So

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Speaker 2: I was always the person who would introduce people into camping.

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Speaker 2: I would be the first person. Yeah, most of my

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Speaker 2: friends had ever gone camping with, and so I'd show

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Speaker 2: them how to set of tents or how to sleep

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Speaker 2: unders the stars, or how to survive when it's raining

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Speaker 2: or hurricanes or whatever. And I was never afraid of

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Speaker 2: any kind of weather. It was always flept in rain

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Speaker 2: and snow and ice and desert. And I was definitely

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Speaker 2: a drilline junkie. I never drank or did any drugs

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Speaker 2: or anything. In high school. It was very not necessarily

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Speaker 2: straight edge, but more of a drilline seeker. So we would,

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Speaker 2: you know, jump off train tracks and trestles and jumped

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Speaker 2: from car to car and drag behind cars and anything

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Speaker 2: that was mildly dangerous. I was jumping off of it

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Speaker 2: or under it, or dragging behind it or something. I

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Speaker 2: just I find I was a job. When I was

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Speaker 2: growing up, I would have been that. I always wanted

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Speaker 2: to travel. I always enjoyed just adventure of road trips,

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Speaker 2: and I guess nothing really deterred me or scared me

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Speaker 2: from that. And sailboats, I guess, for some reason, always

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Speaker 2: called to me, like being on the ocean. I was

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Speaker 2: a beach lifeguard out of high school, so I kind

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Speaker 2: of that. A lot of sailing with little hoopy cats

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Speaker 2: and catamarans and stuff on the beach is there. So

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Speaker 2: it was very attuned to the water, a very strong swimmer,

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Speaker 2: and that was always kind of gave me life, just

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Speaker 2: the ocean. Also, there was a surfing a lot like

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Speaker 2: them too, and we chase hurricanes. We'd watched the Weather channel,

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Speaker 2: you know, and this is before cell phones, and we

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Speaker 2: would try to get in front of a hurricane or

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Speaker 2: behind a hurricane. So I forgot in front of the hurricane.

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Speaker 2: All the cars were leaving the city and we would

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Speaker 2: run in and get all those storms well that would

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Speaker 2: come push in and so it could be amazing, server

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Speaker 2: it could be just disastrous, not real choppy. And then

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Speaker 2: we do there just stay in front of the hurricane,

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Speaker 2: keep there too, ahead of it, or we'd loop around

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Speaker 2: and get behind it and get the storms well from

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Speaker 2: the back. Maybe I guess I feeled a bit invincible

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Speaker 2: in a way, like I was like I can't die.

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Speaker 2: I'm invincible, you know, and several times like I could

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Speaker 2: have died. That that was dangerous, that was stupid. So

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Speaker 2: I met this chunnamed Mark Giltro who's Canadian dude, and

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Speaker 2: he's a really really cool guy. He's a psychiatrist, so

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Speaker 2: he was very calm, but he retired. He was not

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Speaker 2: much older than me, about twenty three years he's talking

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Speaker 2: about going from Florida down to the islands to like

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Speaker 2: South America, and he had a boat. It was twenty

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Speaker 2: eight foot yanmar Cell boat and he's like, well, I'm

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Speaker 2: looking for somebody to go with me. I'm like, that

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Speaker 2: sounds awesome, I'll do that. So I went down to

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Speaker 2: Saint Petersburg a couple of times and met with him

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Speaker 2: and saw his boat and one of the plans and

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Speaker 2: just kind of figured out this condition I could I

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Speaker 2: could do work with him to do it. And I

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Speaker 2: guess he drew up on the lake and up in

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Speaker 2: Ontario or something where he had this lot of seller's

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Speaker 2: license or a captain's license, and so it's not like

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Speaker 2: a really cool idea. The idea is go sail from

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Speaker 2: Saint Pete down around the Tratrotugas and down to Key West,

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Speaker 2: around Cuba, then the islands and in South America. That

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Speaker 2: was our plan. So it's like a twenty eight foot

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Speaker 2: boat sail boat. So it's like the captain's birth upfront

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Speaker 2: and that's where he would sleep and I would have

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Speaker 2: the middle bunk. I guess where I could have a

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Speaker 2: long sort of couch area where you put in like

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Speaker 2: a side rail so you wouldn't fall out again before

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Speaker 2: cell phone. So we're definitely working with a lot of

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Speaker 2: naval coordinate gears and whatnot. And he basically kind of

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Speaker 2: helped me mostly head of sale. I mean I always

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Speaker 2: kind of fascinated with him, but he was, you know,

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Speaker 2: kind of monumental and just kind of telling me what

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Speaker 2: goes where and you basically he was a captain that

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Speaker 2: was first mate. He's like, pull in this cell, pull

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Speaker 2: the main, the jenny, all that, and kind of taught

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Speaker 2: me how to do all the commands correctly. Pretty much

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Speaker 2: just watching the wind and being aware of your surroundings

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Speaker 2: and you know everything. Yeah, definitely want to be over

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Speaker 2: aware of your surroundings because things could hit you, or

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Speaker 2: you could hit your head, or you could slip, or

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Speaker 2: the wind could pick up, or the rain could pick

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Speaker 2: up or different things would definitely happen. And I guess

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Speaker 2: at the night we would take turns like come, somebody

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Speaker 2: sleep for a couple hours, somebody would look up for

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Speaker 2: a couple of hours and just go on shifts, or

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Speaker 2: we would just park it and I'm more and sleep

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Speaker 2: at night and get going early in the morning. Depending

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Speaker 2: on where we're at, there's like a dinghy boat. So

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Speaker 2: like say when Key West, we'd parked the boat out

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Speaker 2: by a moor or a boy and we take the

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Speaker 2: ding n get our supplies and go back. So it's

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Speaker 2: very much like camping out in the ocean. Oh, there's

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Speaker 2: also a dog. He brought us dog with him. It's

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Speaker 2: a little golden retriever. I think one of the coolest

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Speaker 2: things I saw was on the way to Cuba after

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Speaker 2: we left Key West. That's like obviously ninety miles from

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Speaker 2: one point to that point. But we sailed at night

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Speaker 2: and we sell this bioluminescence behind us. After the sun

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Speaker 2: went down. It was like pitch black and no light pollution,

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Speaker 2: and you could just see this trail of bi illumin

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Speaker 2: acids behind the boat for as far as you can see.

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Speaker 2: It was just like almost like a peter Pan pixie

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Speaker 2: dust kind of yeah, trail behind us. This is kind

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Speaker 2: of black ocean. This sparkly dust behind our boat's recorded. No,

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Speaker 2: it's magical. I guess the sailboat is the moments of

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Speaker 2: magic where everyone wants to be a sailor, you know,

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Speaker 2: for those first started moments when you turn the engine

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Speaker 2: off and you go in full sail and the wind

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Speaker 2: picks you up and you're actually flying over the water,

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Speaker 2: or you see these by illuminations behind you, or the

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Speaker 2: dolphins come out to visit you, or you had these

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Speaker 2: just really special magic moments that are hypnotic and you know,

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Speaker 2: strike you. We sailed through the night after Key West,

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Speaker 2: we got to uh we could see Cuba off in

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Speaker 2: the distance, and we kind of went, I guess, to

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Speaker 2: the east and there's this I think it's called Marina Aqua.

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Speaker 2: It's like a big bay area in Cuba. So we

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Speaker 2: were going to pop into Cuba and then get some

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Speaker 2: food and supplies and kind of see the sites a

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Speaker 2: little bit. So we went into Marina Aqua area, which

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Speaker 2: is this giant bay whis so big you can't really

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Speaker 2: see the ends of it. This is in nineteen ninety eight. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: so it's the communist country. And this is one of

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Speaker 2: the reasons I was traveling with Mark because he was Canadian,

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Speaker 2: so we flew his Canadian flag, which you know, they're

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Speaker 2: they're welcome there. Europeans are welcome there. Americans were not

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Speaker 2: welcome there. So I just kind of hit my passport

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Speaker 2: and just said I was Canadian too, which that worked,

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Speaker 2: I guess So we went into Marina Aqua and there's

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Speaker 2: this point where, like off in the distance, we saw

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Speaker 2: this kind of storm swell kind of like getting dark

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Speaker 2: out there in the family. You see way off in

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Speaker 2: the elf in the ocean, you see it's kind of dark.

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Speaker 2: You can see the storms passing. And this storm we

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Speaker 2: saw like kind of coming. The claim was getting closer

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Speaker 2: and we're like, okay, well, storm's gonna probably hit us.

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Speaker 2: We probaly need to figure this out and uh, you know,

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Speaker 2: kind of button down the hatch, get you know, get

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Speaker 2: ready for it. I think within eight minutes of us

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Speaker 2: seeing the storm, the wind picked up, you know, and

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Speaker 2: started raining. So we were out I guess the middle

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Speaker 2: this big bay area. We had not docked yet. We

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Speaker 2: couldn't even see land. We could just kind of tell

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Speaker 2: where we were through the GPS. We knew the land

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Speaker 2: was closed, there were some boys out there. We also

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Speaker 2: knew there was a big coral reef in the area,

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Speaker 2: so we had to be kind of careful where we

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Speaker 2: were at because there's this giant reef around that could

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Speaker 2: kind of tear your boat up. So we're trying to

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Speaker 2: figureut the best way to navigate that. When we saw

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Speaker 2: this storm coming. So we started like the tying down

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Speaker 2: on the patches, bringing all the sails, tying everything down,

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Speaker 2: and the wind started picking up. It went from like

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Speaker 2: almost dead calm to almost fifty miles an hour to

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Speaker 2: sixty miles an hour. You could just feel it picking up,

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Speaker 2: camping up. It starting to rain, and the rain start

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Speaker 2: coming down on us, and then it started flying sideways

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Speaker 2: and then I'm start coming up, so the rain kind

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Speaker 2: of shifted from falling on us still actually flying up

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Speaker 2: into our face. At that point you realize it's going

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Speaker 2: about ninety miles an hour. It's like hitting you like pellets.

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Speaker 2: Mark the guy was driveling with like told me to

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Speaker 2: run out, throw out the big anchor against the bruce.

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Speaker 2: We just wrapped up all our sails, put everything tied down,

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Speaker 2: batting all the hatches, all the things. So I ran

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Speaker 2: to the front of the boat, pulled out the anchor

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Speaker 2: from the hatch, and I threw the bruce overboard, and

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Speaker 2: you know, the chain started coming out and it was

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Speaker 2: going down and immediately caught like on something. I've probably

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Speaker 2: hit a reef and the anchor caught. By this time,

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Speaker 2: the waves picked up to like you know, four to

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Speaker 2: eight feet and our boat was going of going up

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Speaker 2: and down, up and down, up and down, and the

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Speaker 2: waves started coming over the crest of the boat. So

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Speaker 2: as I'm looking trying to hold this chain in and

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Speaker 2: clean it away, would come over in the front of

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Speaker 2: the boat and hit me and I'll just get pushed

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Speaker 2: off the boat. So I'm grabbing the boat and holding

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00:12:06,200 --> 00:12:09,240
Speaker 2: the chain, and every time a wave would hit the boat,

217
00:12:09,400 --> 00:12:11,880
Speaker 2: it would push the boat back a fifteen twenty feet,

218
00:12:12,760 --> 00:12:15,040
Speaker 2: so like the chain would start flying out, and I

219
00:12:15,080 --> 00:12:17,320
Speaker 2: think we had one hundred and eighty feet of it.

220
00:12:17,800 --> 00:12:19,640
Speaker 2: So every time the boat would get hit like now,

221
00:12:19,679 --> 00:12:22,760
Speaker 2: the twenty feet would fly out, and I'm holding it

222
00:12:22,800 --> 00:12:25,080
Speaker 2: on and it's like going through my hands and I'm,

223
00:12:25,240 --> 00:12:26,520
Speaker 2: you know, all the way of the boat's kind of

224
00:12:26,800 --> 00:12:30,120
Speaker 2: in my hands, and I realized I can't hold it.

225
00:12:30,240 --> 00:12:32,760
Speaker 2: And so I see this other wave coming up and

226
00:12:32,800 --> 00:12:35,720
Speaker 2: I'm not panicking as a team. He's flying out and

227
00:12:35,760 --> 00:12:38,760
Speaker 2: I kind of time the wave to the front of

228
00:12:38,800 --> 00:12:41,120
Speaker 2: the boat. As soon as the boat hits the wave

229
00:12:41,160 --> 00:12:44,840
Speaker 2: and tips down, there's a small pause and I cleated

230
00:12:44,880 --> 00:12:47,200
Speaker 2: the chain on this, you know, the cleat right there

231
00:12:48,040 --> 00:12:49,640
Speaker 2: and as fast as I could, and the water hit

232
00:12:49,679 --> 00:12:51,959
Speaker 2: me and it caught two of my fingers between the

233
00:12:52,040 --> 00:12:54,839
Speaker 2: chain and the cleat. So now the whole wave of

234
00:12:54,880 --> 00:13:00,840
Speaker 2: the boat is crushing my fingers. I could just feel

235
00:13:00,840 --> 00:13:08,640
Speaker 2: like the fiber of my bones like coming apart. So

236
00:13:08,640 --> 00:13:09,880
Speaker 2: at this point, I want to stop and talk about

237
00:13:09,880 --> 00:13:11,560
Speaker 2: this other thing that's been going on in my head

238
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Speaker 2: for probably as long as I can remember. When I

239
00:13:16,040 --> 00:13:18,640
Speaker 2: was like, I'm thinking, like five or six years old,

240
00:13:19,480 --> 00:13:23,160
Speaker 2: I have this recurring dream. It was like a It

241
00:13:23,240 --> 00:13:24,880
Speaker 2: wasn't really a nightmare, but it was kind of a

242
00:13:25,000 --> 00:13:30,240
Speaker 2: terrifying dream. And this dream would go on for years

243
00:13:30,280 --> 00:13:32,280
Speaker 2: and years and years, Like sometimes it would happen like

244
00:13:32,280 --> 00:13:35,800
Speaker 2: three or four times a month, sometimes not for several months,

245
00:13:36,040 --> 00:13:39,720
Speaker 2: sometimes once a year, but it would be the same

246
00:13:39,840 --> 00:13:44,760
Speaker 2: dream every time, where I was kind of floating sort

247
00:13:44,800 --> 00:13:47,680
Speaker 2: of in space, I had a body. I could feel

248
00:13:47,760 --> 00:13:50,400
Speaker 2: myself having a being. I was in some sort of body.

249
00:13:50,760 --> 00:13:54,000
Speaker 2: Everything was pitch black, but I could hear off in

250
00:13:54,040 --> 00:13:56,920
Speaker 2: the distance. It sounded like a thunder. It's like a

251
00:13:56,960 --> 00:14:00,280
Speaker 2: low rumble. It's just kind of like a like a

252
00:14:00,360 --> 00:14:03,640
Speaker 2: boulder rumbling the distance or thunder and coming distance just

253
00:14:03,760 --> 00:14:06,319
Speaker 2: kind of force it very far away, and we get

254
00:14:06,320 --> 00:14:09,679
Speaker 2: closer and closer and closer, and you could tell it

255
00:14:09,800 --> 00:14:12,360
Speaker 2: was coming at me, and we get louder and louder

256
00:14:12,400 --> 00:14:14,079
Speaker 2: and louder and louder, to the point where you can

257
00:14:14,120 --> 00:14:18,280
Speaker 2: kind of judge how fast it's going. Had this rolling

258
00:14:19,360 --> 00:14:22,280
Speaker 2: pitch that was moving, you know, like it's thing coming

259
00:14:22,320 --> 00:14:24,360
Speaker 2: down a hill, but not through a hill, or maybe

260
00:14:24,520 --> 00:14:27,400
Speaker 2: a gun coming through a chamber or something like that,

261
00:14:27,480 --> 00:14:31,080
Speaker 2: but but massive. I could hear it, and I could

262
00:14:31,080 --> 00:14:33,320
Speaker 2: hear closer clo clo, close to the point where I

263
00:14:33,440 --> 00:14:35,360
Speaker 2: know what I'm about to get hit, and so I

264
00:14:35,600 --> 00:14:38,840
Speaker 2: kind of clinch and everything in my body just gets tight,

265
00:14:39,200 --> 00:14:45,600
Speaker 2: and then all of a sudden it hits me. But

266
00:14:45,680 --> 00:14:49,920
Speaker 2: instead of being smashed for this gigantic force, it was

267
00:14:50,480 --> 00:14:54,560
Speaker 2: all the weight of the force and like the eye

268
00:14:54,560 --> 00:15:00,520
Speaker 2: of a needle, So it would pierce me in a

269
00:15:00,640 --> 00:15:04,400
Speaker 2: very heavy way, like imagine like a building falling on you,

270
00:15:05,400 --> 00:15:08,680
Speaker 2: but at the point of a needle, so all the

271
00:15:08,680 --> 00:15:11,000
Speaker 2: way to the world at one point, and it would

272
00:15:11,040 --> 00:15:12,840
Speaker 2: strike me, and then I would wake up just shivering

273
00:15:12,920 --> 00:15:16,600
Speaker 2: and screaming or shaking, and it would take me hours

274
00:15:16,640 --> 00:15:18,760
Speaker 2: to kind of like shake it off. And this happened

275
00:15:18,760 --> 00:15:21,040
Speaker 2: for years even went into my adulthood. It's the same

276
00:15:21,160 --> 00:15:23,280
Speaker 2: dream over and over and over again. And sometimes it

277
00:15:23,280 --> 00:15:27,680
Speaker 2: would happen a lot during the year, just sometimes once

278
00:15:27,760 --> 00:15:30,720
Speaker 2: or twice a year, but it's always there. I always

279
00:15:30,760 --> 00:15:37,640
Speaker 2: didn't understand it parallel with this, and I don't know

280
00:15:37,680 --> 00:15:40,320
Speaker 2: if it was related or not. But a lot of

281
00:15:40,360 --> 00:15:43,840
Speaker 2: my risk taking I always had like a permission or

282
00:15:44,160 --> 00:15:46,640
Speaker 2: an idea about the outcome of that risk. Everything I

283
00:15:46,640 --> 00:15:49,440
Speaker 2: would do, I could tell how I would land or

284
00:15:50,520 --> 00:15:53,200
Speaker 2: jumping off train tracks and drag them on whatever whatever

285
00:15:53,200 --> 00:15:55,480
Speaker 2: I was doing, I could always kind of see myself

286
00:15:56,000 --> 00:15:58,720
Speaker 2: doing those things. I could see myself at the end,

287
00:15:59,160 --> 00:16:02,960
Speaker 2: like I never saw myself getting hurt. I was always

288
00:16:03,200 --> 00:16:06,440
Speaker 2: able to overcome, or I could if I could visualize

289
00:16:06,480 --> 00:16:09,080
Speaker 2: I could do it, then me feel anvintable. I feel

290
00:16:09,080 --> 00:16:11,160
Speaker 2: like I want to jump off a bridge onto that

291
00:16:11,200 --> 00:16:14,080
Speaker 2: moving train, and I could see myself doing it, and

292
00:16:14,120 --> 00:16:16,640
Speaker 2: then I did it. I was a big athlete at

293
00:16:16,640 --> 00:16:18,160
Speaker 2: the time too, so I had, you know, a lot

294
00:16:18,200 --> 00:16:20,760
Speaker 2: of wherewithal of how my body worked and what I

295
00:16:20,760 --> 00:16:24,280
Speaker 2: could take. And I was very coordinated, I guess, so

296
00:16:24,320 --> 00:16:26,600
Speaker 2: I could predict how I would land or roll or

297
00:16:26,640 --> 00:16:29,360
Speaker 2: not land, or if I failed to land the jump,

298
00:16:29,360 --> 00:16:30,760
Speaker 2: I could roll in a certain way. I was set

299
00:16:30,760 --> 00:16:34,200
Speaker 2: it out on some kind of second day plan in

300
00:16:34,280 --> 00:16:39,520
Speaker 2: case it didn't go exactly right. I could always see

301
00:16:39,520 --> 00:16:41,960
Speaker 2: myself in the future after that, and I was safe.

302
00:16:41,960 --> 00:16:43,600
Speaker 2: I mean there was I always knew that I wouldn't

303
00:16:43,600 --> 00:16:45,560
Speaker 2: get hurt. I always knew that I would, you know,

304
00:16:45,680 --> 00:16:52,520
Speaker 2: land the jump or be okay. I could always kind

305
00:16:52,560 --> 00:16:54,200
Speaker 2: of see myself in the future. But there was some

306
00:16:54,360 --> 00:16:58,480
Speaker 2: point where I realized I couldn't see past you know, age,

307
00:16:58,760 --> 00:17:01,320
Speaker 2: you know, twenty five. It's like somewhere I just couldn't

308
00:17:01,400 --> 00:17:06,480
Speaker 2: quite visualize myself being older, thirties or forties or anything

309
00:17:06,480 --> 00:17:09,440
Speaker 2: else beyond this one point. And I'm not sure why.

310
00:17:09,440 --> 00:17:11,359
Speaker 2: It was always kind of interesting, like I had this

311
00:17:11,440 --> 00:17:14,440
Speaker 2: kind of saw my own death or a lot of

312
00:17:14,520 --> 00:17:17,160
Speaker 2: I didn't see death, but I saw my own ending.

313
00:17:17,200 --> 00:17:19,520
Speaker 2: I couldn't see past a certain point. I could never

314
00:17:19,560 --> 00:17:22,200
Speaker 2: see myself as an older person or even older adult.

315
00:17:22,320 --> 00:17:26,520
Speaker 2: I could never see myself past twenty five, but also

316
00:17:26,880 --> 00:17:30,520
Speaker 2: knowing there's a certain point where that all stopped, maybe

317
00:17:30,640 --> 00:17:33,520
Speaker 2: maybe more fearless, Well, well, this is where it ends,

318
00:17:33,800 --> 00:17:41,000
Speaker 2: So I'm gonna take this any risk until then so

319
00:17:41,160 --> 00:17:43,959
Speaker 2: going back to Cuba. So the squall was forming, you know,

320
00:17:44,040 --> 00:17:46,359
Speaker 2: like I said, within eight minutes of siding on the horizon,

321
00:17:46,440 --> 00:17:50,120
Speaker 2: it hit us. So the anchor catches immediately. The ways

322
00:17:50,160 --> 00:17:51,879
Speaker 2: are hitting the boat, and we're going back about twenty

323
00:17:51,880 --> 00:17:54,280
Speaker 2: thirty feet fifteen twenty feet every time the war hits

324
00:17:54,359 --> 00:17:56,520
Speaker 2: us and no way started. We're starting to see the

325
00:17:56,600 --> 00:17:58,960
Speaker 2: land behind us, so we know we're coming on the

326
00:17:59,000 --> 00:18:01,600
Speaker 2: reef pretty soon. And if we keep getting hit back

327
00:18:01,640 --> 00:18:03,280
Speaker 2: around be hitting the reef and that I'll like tear

328
00:18:03,320 --> 00:18:05,040
Speaker 2: the hole up and our boat will be to kind

329
00:18:05,040 --> 00:18:07,800
Speaker 2: of smashed. And this rip apart from the bottom up.

330
00:18:09,800 --> 00:18:11,560
Speaker 2: So now my fingers are caught in between the cleat

331
00:18:11,600 --> 00:18:15,320
Speaker 2: and the chain, and this lightning is flashing, and I'm

332
00:18:15,320 --> 00:18:17,280
Speaker 2: fitting all the way to the boat on my fingers.

333
00:18:18,080 --> 00:18:20,200
Speaker 2: I'm trying to rip my fingers off just to get

334
00:18:20,200 --> 00:18:23,480
Speaker 2: them out, and all of a sudden, this lightning flashes again,

335
00:18:26,080 --> 00:18:29,840
Speaker 2: and I'm reminded of this recurring dream. I have this

336
00:18:29,920 --> 00:18:34,359
Speaker 2: thunder and far away coming towards you, faster and faster

337
00:18:34,440 --> 00:18:36,760
Speaker 2: and faster and faster until a point where it hits you.

338
00:18:38,080 --> 00:18:42,680
Speaker 2: Everything slows down, like in your mind, and like why

339
00:18:42,720 --> 00:18:44,760
Speaker 2: am I thinking about the stream right now? Why is

340
00:18:44,800 --> 00:18:48,159
Speaker 2: this in my head when I'm you know, working to

341
00:18:48,200 --> 00:18:55,639
Speaker 2: save the boat. And then I realized that that was

342
00:18:55,640 --> 00:18:57,760
Speaker 2: the moment I've been dreaming about my entire life, This

343
00:18:58,000 --> 00:19:03,159
Speaker 2: one moment, this gigantic masts is force that I couldn't

344
00:19:03,200 --> 00:19:05,600
Speaker 2: never see past. And I would wake up in this

345
00:19:05,680 --> 00:19:11,080
Speaker 2: moment and shiver. That was the point where I felt

346
00:19:11,119 --> 00:19:14,359
Speaker 2: my fingers being crushed. This way to this boat was

347
00:19:14,440 --> 00:19:17,479
Speaker 2: this thing that had been hitting me my entire life.

348
00:19:20,600 --> 00:19:23,080
Speaker 2: And I see another wave coming. So I grabbed the

349
00:19:23,119 --> 00:19:26,520
Speaker 2: excess of the chain, pull it between the cleat and

350
00:19:26,560 --> 00:19:28,479
Speaker 2: my fingers, and when the wave hit me, I use

351
00:19:28,560 --> 00:19:39,720
Speaker 2: that extra slack to pop my fingers out. So my

352
00:19:39,760 --> 00:19:42,760
Speaker 2: fingers pop out, and then all of a sudden, like

353
00:19:42,800 --> 00:19:45,240
Speaker 2: one hundred and eighty feet of open chain are gone,

354
00:19:45,560 --> 00:19:49,120
Speaker 2: and we've lost our anchor. We're just getting was getting

355
00:19:49,160 --> 00:19:51,959
Speaker 2: pounded by this water and its waves and the wind.

356
00:19:52,400 --> 00:19:55,359
Speaker 2: And so I run back and I grab another anchor

357
00:19:55,400 --> 00:19:58,119
Speaker 2: from underneath, and I run out to the front of

358
00:19:58,119 --> 00:20:00,320
Speaker 2: the boat again. It about twenty eight feet, so I

359
00:20:00,359 --> 00:20:02,000
Speaker 2: had to run from the front of the boat to

360
00:20:02,080 --> 00:20:04,880
Speaker 2: the back again. I began to see this rain everywhere,

361
00:20:05,560 --> 00:20:09,080
Speaker 2: lightning slashing everywhere. At that point, it's just about saving

362
00:20:09,080 --> 00:20:11,240
Speaker 2: the boat. So the rest of the chain was gone.

363
00:20:11,280 --> 00:20:13,200
Speaker 2: One hundred and eighty feet of the bruce is gone.

364
00:20:13,640 --> 00:20:16,440
Speaker 2: I run back to grab another anchor, a smaller anchor.

365
00:20:16,520 --> 00:20:18,679
Speaker 2: I have to run back over the deck. The wind's

366
00:20:18,720 --> 00:20:20,800
Speaker 2: going ninety miles an hour. I can't see. I'm holding

367
00:20:20,800 --> 00:20:23,960
Speaker 2: on everything go beneath markets in the back, trying to

368
00:20:24,040 --> 00:20:26,840
Speaker 2: get the engine going. Then all of a sudden, you

369
00:20:26,840 --> 00:20:31,000
Speaker 2: hear this gigantic crash and the engine gets knocked off

370
00:20:31,040 --> 00:20:32,879
Speaker 2: the blocks and hits the bottom of the boat. So

371
00:20:32,960 --> 00:20:36,320
Speaker 2: now we've lost our engine and we've lost our anchor.

372
00:20:37,280 --> 00:20:39,639
Speaker 2: So I grab a smaller anchor, run back up to

373
00:20:39,680 --> 00:20:43,160
Speaker 2: the front. I cleaned it first with about twenty feet

374
00:20:43,160 --> 00:20:46,560
Speaker 2: of a line and throw it out and it immediately

375
00:20:46,600 --> 00:20:50,280
Speaker 2: catches again on something below prior wreath, and we were

376
00:20:50,280 --> 00:20:58,879
Speaker 2: in irons. Our boat goes into the wind. We're riding

377
00:20:58,920 --> 00:21:02,080
Speaker 2: out the storm now mhm. Everything else is just kind

378
00:21:02,080 --> 00:21:05,040
Speaker 2: of tattered and broken. At the end, we've kind of

379
00:21:05,119 --> 00:21:06,680
Speaker 2: ried the storm out, and then we were kind of

380
00:21:06,720 --> 00:21:09,560
Speaker 2: just sitting there at the end, kind of licking our wounds.

381
00:21:10,520 --> 00:21:12,720
Speaker 2: And I think it was a point where I kind

382
00:21:12,720 --> 00:21:22,479
Speaker 2: of realized, like, I'm not I didn't die, I did.

383
00:21:22,800 --> 00:21:25,119
Speaker 2: We didn't hit the reef, we didn't go over board

384
00:21:25,119 --> 00:21:29,160
Speaker 2: a boat. Still intact, we're beat up, but what we've survived.

385
00:21:31,080 --> 00:21:32,880
Speaker 2: I think if we would have hit the reef, we'd

386
00:21:32,880 --> 00:21:34,880
Speaker 2: have torn our boat apart. We would have been out

387
00:21:34,960 --> 00:21:37,399
Speaker 2: in the water. But I could never see myself beyond

388
00:21:37,400 --> 00:21:39,800
Speaker 2: that point. But then again, we survived the storm, and

389
00:21:39,800 --> 00:21:46,200
Speaker 2: I realized that I was going to love. In my head,

390
00:21:46,200 --> 00:21:47,680
Speaker 2: I could all of a sudden see a new future.

391
00:21:47,720 --> 00:21:59,920
Speaker 2: It was almost like being born again again. I think

392
00:22:00,119 --> 00:22:03,040
Speaker 2: I had not thought about this dream for a long time,

393
00:22:03,440 --> 00:22:05,199
Speaker 2: you know, and to have that dream kind of flashed

394
00:22:05,200 --> 00:22:08,000
Speaker 2: to my head in that moment, in that time, in

395
00:22:08,080 --> 00:22:12,960
Speaker 2: that you know, in that desperate moment, in a way,

396
00:22:13,200 --> 00:22:15,680
Speaker 2: we were there's no reason I should be thinking about

397
00:22:15,720 --> 00:22:18,760
Speaker 2: anything else, but you know, surviving Why does this dream

398
00:22:18,760 --> 00:22:21,560
Speaker 2: pop in now? And it kind of all fell into place,

399
00:22:22,040 --> 00:22:26,800
Speaker 2: and I kind of realized that I was going to

400
00:22:26,880 --> 00:22:39,600
Speaker 2: be alive beyond this point. When we survived, I feel

401
00:22:39,640 --> 00:22:42,440
Speaker 2: like I was sort of born again and having given

402
00:22:42,480 --> 00:22:46,879
Speaker 2: like a renewal, a second lease in a way, like

403
00:22:46,960 --> 00:22:51,520
Speaker 2: I was now on extra time, uh, extra credit. Maybe

404
00:22:52,560 --> 00:22:55,760
Speaker 2: it's kind of living on extra credit. So in a

405
00:22:55,800 --> 00:23:09,000
Speaker 2: way they've maybe more fearless but also grateful. So I

406
00:23:09,000 --> 00:23:10,800
Speaker 2: think for years after that, I would always say, well,

407
00:23:10,840 --> 00:23:13,399
Speaker 2: I'm living in after credit. Now it's all just you know,

408
00:23:14,080 --> 00:23:20,639
Speaker 2: bonus bonus life. At this point, the storm had kind

409
00:23:20,640 --> 00:23:26,440
Speaker 2: of resided and sun's going down, and I'm still kind

410
00:23:26,440 --> 00:23:29,040
Speaker 2: of like full of adrenaline and full of angst and

411
00:23:29,080 --> 00:23:32,480
Speaker 2: full of like what the hell just happened? But that

412
00:23:32,800 --> 00:23:35,760
Speaker 2: feeling of calm kind of came over me in a

413
00:23:35,800 --> 00:23:40,320
Speaker 2: way of just like okay, now now what you know?

414
00:23:40,520 --> 00:23:46,840
Speaker 2: Now I've got this new feeling, this new manual gratitude.

415
00:23:49,359 --> 00:23:52,119
Speaker 2: We kind of bat down our hat, just shook it

416
00:23:52,119 --> 00:23:54,800
Speaker 2: off and kind of I'm not sure what we did.

417
00:23:54,840 --> 00:23:59,320
Speaker 2: We probab drink some whisky at that point, just like, uh,

418
00:24:00,080 --> 00:24:02,800
Speaker 2: sit down and watch the sun go down. Because that

419
00:24:02,840 --> 00:24:04,520
Speaker 2: storm kind of went as as as it came. I

420
00:24:04,640 --> 00:24:09,399
Speaker 2: just disappeared. The next day, you know, I woke up

421
00:24:09,440 --> 00:24:12,679
Speaker 2: and this I felt like cop was almost a new person,

422
00:24:13,440 --> 00:24:17,760
Speaker 2: all right. I just had this new idea about where

423
00:24:17,800 --> 00:24:20,040
Speaker 2: I was going. Or now I could plan things differently,

424
00:24:20,160 --> 00:24:32,720
Speaker 2: or maybe I could see things differently. Then again, at

425
00:24:32,720 --> 00:24:37,040
Speaker 2: this point, we're broken down in Cuba. So we sat

426
00:24:37,119 --> 00:24:39,520
Speaker 2: in that bay for the entire day and the sun

427
00:24:39,640 --> 00:24:43,680
Speaker 2: just baking, and I could see this gunboats approaching. The

428
00:24:43,880 --> 00:24:50,920
Speaker 2: boat remarks like, hang on, d it's just your Canadian

429
00:24:51,000 --> 00:24:55,159
Speaker 2: hydrated passport and let's just like talk to these guys.

430
00:24:56,080 --> 00:24:58,960
Speaker 2: So the Cuban guys came up in this gigantict gunboat,

431
00:24:59,160 --> 00:25:03,159
Speaker 2: this huge so whatever canon is, three canes pointing at us.

432
00:25:03,680 --> 00:25:06,480
Speaker 2: They docked us. They came on boards with guns. Mark

433
00:25:06,600 --> 00:25:09,119
Speaker 2: was like a well, you know, we're briing Cuba and

434
00:25:09,119 --> 00:25:11,920
Speaker 2: they can't get any American goods down here, so let's

435
00:25:11,960 --> 00:25:15,960
Speaker 2: just give them beer. So they boarded us and they

436
00:25:15,960 --> 00:25:18,520
Speaker 2: had these guns and the AK forty sevens and pistols,

437
00:25:18,600 --> 00:25:20,520
Speaker 2: and they're kind of like, who are you, who are you?

438
00:25:20,560 --> 00:25:22,240
Speaker 2: Tell us who you are, We give you your papers,

439
00:25:22,640 --> 00:25:25,680
Speaker 2: why are you here? And we're just handing him beer

440
00:25:25,800 --> 00:25:30,800
Speaker 2: as they boored Boden Advisor, Bouton Advisor, Budweiser, and they're like, okay, okay,

441
00:25:30,840 --> 00:25:33,320
Speaker 2: So we're just trying to get them beer, American beer,

442
00:25:33,320 --> 00:25:36,360
Speaker 2: which they can't get down there, so they're pretty interested

443
00:25:36,359 --> 00:25:40,679
Speaker 2: in that. So we bought them off the beer and

444
00:25:40,840 --> 00:25:43,159
Speaker 2: they decided to tow us in, so they called our

445
00:25:43,200 --> 00:25:48,040
Speaker 2: toe tugboat. They strapped us up and drove us around

446
00:25:48,080 --> 00:25:51,080
Speaker 2: to it in a marina, and they decided, since we

447
00:25:51,119 --> 00:25:53,320
Speaker 2: were two white dudes in the yacht, that they're going

448
00:25:53,400 --> 00:25:55,840
Speaker 2: to charge us like eight thousand dollars for the toe

449
00:25:56,560 --> 00:25:59,320
Speaker 2: and they just gonna, you know, went to extort us,

450
00:26:00,800 --> 00:26:03,920
Speaker 2: which we didn't have that money. But so they tied

451
00:26:04,000 --> 00:26:06,600
Speaker 2: us into the dock and we dock next to these

452
00:26:06,800 --> 00:26:09,880
Speaker 2: German guys and a bunch of other sailors who are out,

453
00:26:10,040 --> 00:26:13,360
Speaker 2: you know, because Europeans and Canadians and all those those

454
00:26:13,359 --> 00:26:16,120
Speaker 2: shutters were down there. So we had like some pretty

455
00:26:16,119 --> 00:26:19,639
Speaker 2: cool neighbors. Then the dock master, he was Cuban. He

456
00:26:19,640 --> 00:26:24,520
Speaker 2: would come down and say like, you know, hey guys,

457
00:26:25,400 --> 00:26:29,280
Speaker 2: you guys seem pretty cool, you know, in his I

458
00:26:29,320 --> 00:26:33,520
Speaker 2: had taken I took five years of Spanish side about

459
00:26:33,520 --> 00:26:35,560
Speaker 2: five years of Spanish in high school and college, and

460
00:26:35,920 --> 00:26:38,160
Speaker 2: I really didn't know any of that, but it came

461
00:26:38,200 --> 00:26:42,080
Speaker 2: back pretty fast, Like everything that I'd forgotten really came

462
00:26:42,119 --> 00:26:46,359
Speaker 2: back fast. My Spanish kind of kicked in, so so

463
00:26:46,400 --> 00:26:49,000
Speaker 2: I guess it was kidden in my hidden Spanish brain,

464
00:26:49,080 --> 00:26:50,679
Speaker 2: so I was able to understand the dock master, and

465
00:26:50,720 --> 00:26:53,160
Speaker 2: he was able to tell us, Hey, the Federal he's

466
00:26:53,200 --> 00:26:55,480
Speaker 2: not going to be here around eight o'clock. If I

467
00:26:55,520 --> 00:27:01,200
Speaker 2: were you, I wouldn't be here. So he would tell

468
00:27:01,240 --> 00:27:03,600
Speaker 2: us when we were coming down and they were coming

469
00:27:03,600 --> 00:27:05,879
Speaker 2: down to get money from us, and he would just

470
00:27:05,880 --> 00:27:08,560
Speaker 2: tell us, hey, don't be here during this time and

471
00:27:08,680 --> 00:27:10,480
Speaker 2: ended up being really cool. So we would going to

472
00:27:10,760 --> 00:27:14,639
Speaker 2: Cuba around to the I guess the hotels there, the

473
00:27:14,680 --> 00:27:17,360
Speaker 2: e repeat hotels, and just hang out during the day

474
00:27:18,440 --> 00:27:20,359
Speaker 2: and then we come back and try to fix our

475
00:27:20,359 --> 00:27:22,320
Speaker 2: boat at night. We were there for about a month and

476
00:27:22,359 --> 00:27:26,560
Speaker 2: a half. Basically the German guys helped us get our

477
00:27:26,680 --> 00:27:29,880
Speaker 2: engine back on the blocks, get our retor straightened out,

478
00:27:31,960 --> 00:27:34,440
Speaker 2: and then we just took off during the one night

479
00:27:34,480 --> 00:27:43,240
Speaker 2: we just took off. It was also interesting because I

480
00:27:43,280 --> 00:27:45,960
Speaker 2: never had that dream again. That was the end of it.

481
00:27:46,640 --> 00:27:48,840
Speaker 2: I never had that recurring dream that I'd been having

482
00:27:48,920 --> 00:27:55,200
Speaker 2: my entire life. It just stopped. Now it can start

483
00:27:55,200 --> 00:27:57,879
Speaker 2: planning the rest of my life. I see myself as

484
00:27:57,920 --> 00:28:01,560
Speaker 2: thirty or forty, or you know, being an old man

485
00:28:01,600 --> 00:28:05,280
Speaker 2: even so I could start visualizing that or before I could.

486
00:28:05,440 --> 00:28:15,840
Speaker 2: It was like a mental block. I think it's like this,

487
00:28:16,160 --> 00:28:18,520
Speaker 2: the whole very devil thing is I always about taking chances.

488
00:28:18,520 --> 00:28:21,840
Speaker 2: It's always about almost dying. But did you die?

489
00:28:22,080 --> 00:28:22,240
Speaker 1: No?

490
00:28:22,400 --> 00:28:25,600
Speaker 2: I didn't, but I definitely lived, you know. It's it's

491
00:28:25,600 --> 00:28:28,439
Speaker 2: one of the things where you uh, the more chances

492
00:28:28,480 --> 00:28:31,320
Speaker 2: you take, the more times you realized, holy shit, that

493
00:28:31,400 --> 00:28:33,520
Speaker 2: was stupid. But then you come out alive and then

494
00:28:33,560 --> 00:28:36,280
Speaker 2: scathed or slightly scathed or slightly broken, but you're still

495
00:28:36,320 --> 00:28:38,440
Speaker 2: alive and you still got the scars to prove it.

496
00:28:38,520 --> 00:28:42,760
Speaker 2: And that's one of the things that you didn't Did

497
00:28:42,800 --> 00:28:45,000
Speaker 2: you really live? You know, if you didn't come close

498
00:28:45,040 --> 00:28:53,240
Speaker 2: to dying, did you really live? Not really a mantra

499
00:28:53,320 --> 00:28:57,200
Speaker 2: to live by, but it's it's something to feel really alive.

500
00:28:57,240 --> 00:28:59,960
Speaker 2: Like if you wake up and there's ice and sleeping

501
00:29:00,080 --> 00:29:03,880
Speaker 2: bag and you're like, oh man, I can't feel my face.

502
00:29:04,760 --> 00:29:07,000
Speaker 2: Then later on you feel the best you've ever felt

503
00:29:07,080 --> 00:29:10,640
Speaker 2: because you just live through it. You know, somebody sleepless

504
00:29:10,720 --> 00:29:12,920
Speaker 2: nights or so many times we've just been broken, and

505
00:29:13,760 --> 00:29:17,080
Speaker 2: you feel better afterwards because you realize how close you

506
00:29:17,120 --> 00:29:21,200
Speaker 2: came to to really ending in all and not that

507
00:29:21,440 --> 00:29:23,640
Speaker 2: any must have a death wish, but you know, you

508
00:29:23,640 --> 00:29:27,160
Speaker 2: should definitely push yourself to the point where you know,

509
00:29:29,040 --> 00:29:33,160
Speaker 2: know your limits if there are any. Yeah, I think

510
00:29:33,240 --> 00:29:37,400
Speaker 2: it is about being alive. It is about like suffering.

511
00:29:37,440 --> 00:29:41,200
Speaker 2: It is about, like you know, pushing yourself. And I've

512
00:29:41,240 --> 00:29:45,720
Speaker 2: always enjoyed flirting with death. Yeah, that's that's a good

513
00:29:45,720 --> 00:29:47,960
Speaker 2: way to put it. I have annoyed starting with death.

514
00:29:48,320 --> 00:29:51,800
Speaker 2: It makes me feel alive. I'd worked at Rockies pick

515
00:29:51,840 --> 00:29:54,560
Speaker 2: up and Pizza here in Atlanta, and they had and

516
00:29:54,680 --> 00:29:57,120
Speaker 2: they kept calling me the guy who wouldn't die, like

517
00:29:57,680 --> 00:30:01,440
Speaker 2: they sold them all like keeping ours and some money,

518
00:30:02,040 --> 00:30:04,960
Speaker 2: and they I guess they just there's Nate, the guy

519
00:30:04,960 --> 00:30:14,160
Speaker 2: who won't die. Like I foresaw the boat thing happening,

520
00:30:14,320 --> 00:30:16,360
Speaker 2: I didn't know exactly what it was going to be.

521
00:30:17,520 --> 00:30:20,040
Speaker 2: So I think I had this premonition of this moment

522
00:30:20,040 --> 00:30:22,480
Speaker 2: in time, and I don't know how that moment time

523
00:30:22,600 --> 00:30:25,280
Speaker 2: would play out. But when it happened, it happened, and

524
00:30:25,320 --> 00:30:32,600
Speaker 2: I recognized it. So I think I started taking myself

525
00:30:32,640 --> 00:30:36,440
Speaker 2: a little bit more seriously, started thinking a bit more

526
00:30:36,480 --> 00:30:38,920
Speaker 2: about you know, what is it I love, what is

527
00:30:38,960 --> 00:30:41,240
Speaker 2: it I love to do? Who do I want to be?

528
00:30:42,280 --> 00:30:44,920
Speaker 2: What is my legacy if that. You know, I think

529
00:30:45,200 --> 00:30:48,320
Speaker 2: I started taking life a little bit more seriously. I

530
00:30:48,360 --> 00:30:50,040
Speaker 2: wanted to play and stuff. I want to finish college.

531
00:30:50,080 --> 00:30:53,440
Speaker 2: I think I just found a new way to see

532
00:30:53,480 --> 00:30:56,600
Speaker 2: things and wanted to live in a creative way. I

533
00:30:56,840 --> 00:30:58,680
Speaker 2: have more of a creative lifestyle.

534
00:31:00,600 --> 00:31:00,760
Speaker 3: Now.

535
00:31:00,800 --> 00:31:05,040
Speaker 2: I'm a professional photographer, photographer, editor. And it's been like

536
00:31:05,080 --> 00:31:07,600
Speaker 2: a really really interesting and cool ride because I've been

537
00:31:07,560 --> 00:31:10,600
Speaker 2: able to live a very creative lifestyle. I'm still able

538
00:31:10,600 --> 00:31:14,240
Speaker 2: to travel quite a bit, control my own hours, wake

539
00:31:14,280 --> 00:31:18,720
Speaker 2: my own money, and mostly just make creative choices and

540
00:31:18,720 --> 00:31:21,640
Speaker 2: then what I ultimately just enjoy doing. And that's been

541
00:31:21,720 --> 00:31:25,840
Speaker 2: a very freeing life.

542
00:31:26,080 --> 00:31:26,240
Speaker 3: You know.

543
00:31:28,920 --> 00:31:33,000
Speaker 2: I think that we're all in my understanding of life

544
00:31:33,040 --> 00:31:36,280
Speaker 2: and our connectivity to the earth. I feel like we're

545
00:31:36,280 --> 00:31:38,880
Speaker 2: all part of this, you know. Not this sound all

546
00:31:38,920 --> 00:31:41,200
Speaker 2: hippie dippy, but I think we are a part of

547
00:31:41,200 --> 00:31:43,680
Speaker 2: this flow and this energy, and I think that we

548
00:31:43,760 --> 00:31:47,600
Speaker 2: are a part of everything around us, and I think

549
00:31:47,600 --> 00:31:51,240
Speaker 2: that we are all connected in certain ways. I think

550
00:31:51,240 --> 00:31:53,680
Speaker 2: we are able to feel certain things and understand certain

551
00:31:53,720 --> 00:31:57,200
Speaker 2: things and not understand a hell of a lot, but

552
00:31:57,280 --> 00:31:59,160
Speaker 2: we have these little signals that kind of pop in

553
00:31:59,240 --> 00:32:03,400
Speaker 2: and out we recognize them. We can't always connect the dots.

554
00:32:03,400 --> 00:32:05,680
Speaker 2: Some of the dots we connect aren't the right ones.

555
00:32:05,720 --> 00:32:08,280
Speaker 2: But we feel all these things, you know, and we

556
00:32:08,440 --> 00:32:28,440
Speaker 2: just trying to make sense of it. Welcome back, This.

557
00:32:28,440 --> 00:32:31,640
Speaker 1: Is Alive again, joining me for a conversation about today's story.

558
00:32:31,880 --> 00:32:35,320
Speaker 1: Were my other Alive Against story producers Louren Vogelbaum and

559
00:32:35,640 --> 00:32:41,080
Speaker 1: Brent Die and I'm your host, Dan Bush.

560
00:32:41,560 --> 00:32:45,120
Speaker 4: How does this sound better? It's not as not, there's

561
00:32:45,120 --> 00:32:46,600
Speaker 4: no base, but it's okay.

562
00:32:47,560 --> 00:32:50,640
Speaker 5: Well that's my voice. I'm not a very masculine, very

563
00:32:50,640 --> 00:32:51,960
Speaker 5: masculine speaker, so.

564
00:32:53,120 --> 00:33:00,960
Speaker 3: That's not true. You just need to dig deeper. Let

565
00:33:01,000 --> 00:33:03,840
Speaker 3: me uh dig deeper.

566
00:33:04,040 --> 00:33:04,960
Speaker 5: Let me scrunch.

567
00:33:05,920 --> 00:33:14,480
Speaker 1: Come on, all right, okay, you need to sit on

568
00:33:14,520 --> 00:33:15,120
Speaker 1: the toilet.

569
00:33:18,920 --> 00:33:22,920
Speaker 4: Okay, we have Lauren Vogelbaum, Brent Die and myself, Dan Bush,

570
00:33:22,960 --> 00:33:26,920
Speaker 4: and so Nate Dorn story. Did you guys get a

571
00:33:27,000 --> 00:33:28,000
Speaker 4: chance to listen to this one?

572
00:33:28,600 --> 00:33:29,240
Speaker 6: Yeah?

573
00:33:29,040 --> 00:33:30,520
Speaker 5: Yeah, this is one of my favorites.

574
00:33:30,720 --> 00:33:33,880
Speaker 6: Like this one reminded me of the kind of story

575
00:33:33,920 --> 00:33:36,880
Speaker 6: that like you'd read in a horror anthology series, you know,

576
00:33:36,960 --> 00:33:39,600
Speaker 6: like the dreams that lead up to a certain point,

577
00:33:39,840 --> 00:33:41,239
Speaker 6: you know, the.

578
00:33:40,720 --> 00:33:44,000
Speaker 4: Full Twilight zone, right. The premonition part of it is fascinating.

579
00:33:44,440 --> 00:33:47,160
Speaker 4: I have another fiction show called The Maniwac Caves, and

580
00:33:47,560 --> 00:33:51,040
Speaker 4: part of the horror motif that was that we were

581
00:33:51,080 --> 00:33:53,840
Speaker 4: using throughout the Maniwac Caves is this guy keeps having

582
00:33:53,920 --> 00:33:55,680
Speaker 4: these premonitions or like he.

583
00:33:55,720 --> 00:33:58,200
Speaker 2: Says, it's so scary. He says, you know.

584
00:33:58,040 --> 00:34:01,600
Speaker 4: When the entity is getting closer because the fog comes in,

585
00:34:01,720 --> 00:34:04,640
Speaker 4: the temperature drops, and he's like, you know when it's

586
00:34:04,640 --> 00:34:06,920
Speaker 4: getting closer because you'll get these signs like you'll you'll

587
00:34:06,920 --> 00:34:09,800
Speaker 4: always see three three three on the clock, or you'll

588
00:34:09,960 --> 00:34:12,800
Speaker 4: think about somebody you haven't thought about in twenty years

589
00:34:12,800 --> 00:34:15,440
Speaker 4: and then you'll see that they just died on Facebook.

590
00:34:16,360 --> 00:34:20,040
Speaker 4: And he called them devil's pranks. If you guys ever

591
00:34:20,080 --> 00:34:22,279
Speaker 4: experienced any kind of premonitions or anything like that in

592
00:34:22,280 --> 00:34:23,120
Speaker 4: your life, I.

593
00:34:23,040 --> 00:34:26,040
Speaker 5: Haven't really any experience any premonitions, but I have, as

594
00:34:26,040 --> 00:34:28,279
Speaker 5: I've gotten older, looked back at my life and been like,

595
00:34:28,320 --> 00:34:31,799
Speaker 5: you know, if I would have more aggressively pursued the

596
00:34:31,840 --> 00:34:33,799
Speaker 5: things that I was dreaming about in my life and

597
00:34:33,840 --> 00:34:38,280
Speaker 5: not let myself be worried about the fear of making

598
00:34:38,320 --> 00:34:41,200
Speaker 5: a living or you know, whatever was holding me back,

599
00:34:41,480 --> 00:34:44,080
Speaker 5: I really do think I would have achieved them. And

600
00:34:44,200 --> 00:34:46,759
Speaker 5: Nate gets to that point in his story where he's like,

601
00:34:46,800 --> 00:34:49,560
Speaker 5: you know, I've lived this really cool life of everything

602
00:34:49,600 --> 00:34:53,359
Speaker 5: has been unborrowed time, and it's given him that the

603
00:34:53,480 --> 00:34:57,480
Speaker 5: passport to really just pursue what he wants to pursue.

604
00:34:57,520 --> 00:34:59,920
Speaker 5: And he and he's built you know, I think some

605
00:35:00,040 --> 00:35:02,239
Speaker 5: any of us, so many people get caught up on

606
00:35:02,280 --> 00:35:04,799
Speaker 5: the in the rat race of having to make a

607
00:35:04,800 --> 00:35:07,120
Speaker 5: certain amount of money, having to have a certain kind

608
00:35:07,120 --> 00:35:10,480
Speaker 5: of lifestyle. And he's rejected that and just lived the

609
00:35:10,520 --> 00:35:12,480
Speaker 5: life that he's he wants to live. And I think

610
00:35:12,520 --> 00:35:16,560
Speaker 5: that's maybe one something that comes out of having those

611
00:35:17,520 --> 00:35:20,040
Speaker 5: near death experiences, like putting himself on the edge like

612
00:35:20,080 --> 00:35:20,600
Speaker 5: that all the time.

613
00:35:20,680 --> 00:35:22,839
Speaker 4: Well, it does match his fearlessness, right, because I think

614
00:35:22,880 --> 00:35:24,920
Speaker 4: to get the reason we ever end up in a

615
00:35:25,000 --> 00:35:27,080
Speaker 4: job that we don't like and spend you know, some

616
00:35:27,440 --> 00:35:30,280
Speaker 4: obscene portion of our lives in that job is because

617
00:35:30,320 --> 00:35:30,680
Speaker 4: of fear.

618
00:35:30,760 --> 00:35:34,320
Speaker 5: Yeah, exactly. How about you, Lauren? Have you had a premonition?

619
00:35:34,880 --> 00:35:39,520
Speaker 6: Not particularly, I mean not that I I have like

620
00:35:39,600 --> 00:35:41,879
Speaker 6: deja vu all the time, like I'll feel like I've

621
00:35:41,920 --> 00:35:46,160
Speaker 6: definitely seen this before or I've definitely experienced this feeling

622
00:35:46,600 --> 00:35:51,319
Speaker 6: in this place, brought about by a specific turn of

623
00:35:51,360 --> 00:35:54,000
Speaker 6: phrase or something like that. But I mean, of course,

624
00:35:54,040 --> 00:35:59,400
Speaker 6: there's there's ideas that scientists have about why we experience

625
00:35:59,520 --> 00:36:01,880
Speaker 6: days of and that it's actually just a buffering issue

626
00:36:01,880 --> 00:36:04,040
Speaker 6: in our brain, and that it's our brain kind of

627
00:36:04,120 --> 00:36:06,160
Speaker 6: lying to us and try to trying to put things

628
00:36:06,160 --> 00:36:08,399
Speaker 6: together and sort of putting them together in the wrong

629
00:36:08,560 --> 00:36:11,640
Speaker 6: order and reporting that information to us in the wrong order.

630
00:36:11,760 --> 00:36:15,600
Speaker 6: So something that we've just experienced feels like it had

631
00:36:15,600 --> 00:36:20,120
Speaker 6: already happened. It's just yeah, getting right punted back and

632
00:36:20,160 --> 00:36:24,400
Speaker 6: forth between long term and short term memory. And you know,

633
00:36:24,600 --> 00:36:28,240
Speaker 6: like this is actually an amazing thing about the human

634
00:36:28,320 --> 00:36:31,600
Speaker 6: mind is that it's bad at stuff, but it wants

635
00:36:31,680 --> 00:36:35,040
Speaker 6: to be good at stuff. It wants to it wants

636
00:36:35,080 --> 00:36:37,720
Speaker 6: to help us make sense of things. Like the human mind,

637
00:36:37,800 --> 00:36:42,839
Speaker 6: not even conscious people, but our brains are storytellers, and

638
00:36:43,440 --> 00:36:47,520
Speaker 6: that's so cool. It's also cool that, like our brains

639
00:36:47,560 --> 00:36:52,080
Speaker 6: are really unreliable narrators, and that's just because like we're

640
00:36:52,120 --> 00:36:55,600
Speaker 6: not machines. Like we love thinking about we love thinking

641
00:36:55,600 --> 00:36:58,239
Speaker 6: about our brains as being computers, but they are absolutely not.

642
00:36:59,160 --> 00:37:02,600
Speaker 6: You know, like every time we recall a memory, we

643
00:37:02,719 --> 00:37:04,560
Speaker 6: change it a little. When we put it back in,

644
00:37:05,360 --> 00:37:05,719
Speaker 6: you have.

645
00:37:05,680 --> 00:37:06,400
Speaker 2: To repaint it.

646
00:37:06,560 --> 00:37:08,360
Speaker 4: You have to take the painting from scratch, and so

647
00:37:08,400 --> 00:37:11,840
Speaker 4: it's always going to be a creative process. Memory is creative.

648
00:37:12,040 --> 00:37:15,200
Speaker 6: Yeah, yeah, And so you know, like, can our dreams

649
00:37:15,239 --> 00:37:18,440
Speaker 6: be portentious or will they always be portentious and reverse

650
00:37:18,600 --> 00:37:23,080
Speaker 6: like become portentious once we think about them. And at

651
00:37:23,120 --> 00:37:24,520
Speaker 6: the end of the day, I don't think that it

652
00:37:24,560 --> 00:37:28,359
Speaker 6: really matters what the science is. I think I've you know,

653
00:37:28,640 --> 00:37:31,279
Speaker 6: I think I've said this in other episodes. But if

654
00:37:31,280 --> 00:37:35,440
Speaker 6: it's part of your experience, then then it is portentious

655
00:37:35,760 --> 00:37:38,040
Speaker 6: and you can take something away from that.

656
00:37:38,320 --> 00:37:40,680
Speaker 4: There's a there's a movie called The Black Robe. Have

657
00:37:40,760 --> 00:37:42,080
Speaker 4: you guys heard of The Black Robe?

658
00:37:42,080 --> 00:37:43,200
Speaker 6: I don't think so, don't know.

659
00:37:43,440 --> 00:37:46,399
Speaker 4: It's about these missionaries that are trying to like bring

660
00:37:46,440 --> 00:37:50,680
Speaker 4: religion into a very hostile, primal sort of indigenous culture.

661
00:37:50,760 --> 00:37:53,960
Speaker 4: And if this one missionary meets a guide to, you know,

662
00:37:54,200 --> 00:37:57,279
Speaker 4: a native who's helping him to journey across on this

663
00:37:57,320 --> 00:37:59,600
Speaker 4: big track. Throughout the movie, you keep seeing these flashes,

664
00:37:59,640 --> 00:38:03,960
Speaker 4: these of like this desolate, gray sort of wasteland and

665
00:38:04,520 --> 00:38:07,120
Speaker 4: he keeps having The guy keeps having these visions and

666
00:38:07,160 --> 00:38:10,280
Speaker 4: then at some point he gets I don't know, snared

667
00:38:10,320 --> 00:38:12,759
Speaker 4: by arrows or he you know, he's laying there and

668
00:38:12,760 --> 00:38:15,840
Speaker 4: he's towards the end of the movie, he's bleeding to

669
00:38:15,880 --> 00:38:18,600
Speaker 4: death and he's in the missionary's arms and he looks

670
00:38:18,640 --> 00:38:21,440
Speaker 4: up at the missionary and he says, if only I

671
00:38:21,480 --> 00:38:25,680
Speaker 4: had known that those dreams were of this moment of

672
00:38:26,000 --> 00:38:28,160
Speaker 4: my death. Like he was like, this is he called

673
00:38:28,200 --> 00:38:29,400
Speaker 4: up to his dream and he's like, this is what

674
00:38:29,400 --> 00:38:30,960
Speaker 4: I've been dreaming about my whole life. And he's like,

675
00:38:30,960 --> 00:38:34,319
Speaker 4: if only I had known that this dream was of

676
00:38:34,360 --> 00:38:36,360
Speaker 4: my death, I would have fought more furioucely in battle.

677
00:38:36,400 --> 00:38:38,759
Speaker 4: I would have taken more risks. It's such a cool,

678
00:38:38,800 --> 00:38:43,480
Speaker 4: weird Wow, it's a cool movie. But but yeah, like

679
00:38:44,280 --> 00:38:47,279
Speaker 4: I have these moments recurring from in my life more

680
00:38:47,320 --> 00:38:48,960
Speaker 4: and more recently, and I don't know what to make

681
00:38:49,000 --> 00:38:51,480
Speaker 4: of them. And you know, it's he'd be so easy

682
00:38:51,520 --> 00:38:54,040
Speaker 4: for me to be dismissive of them and be like, oh,

683
00:38:54,400 --> 00:38:57,439
Speaker 4: I'm these are just coincidences. This is just deja vus

684
00:38:57,520 --> 00:38:59,960
Speaker 4: whatever that is or whatever. But more and more frequent

685
00:39:00,160 --> 00:39:04,160
Speaker 4: in my life, I have these almost like prompts from

686
00:39:04,200 --> 00:39:05,960
Speaker 4: the universes the way I like to look at him,

687
00:39:06,000 --> 00:39:08,960
Speaker 4: because why not play with that game for a little while,

688
00:39:09,000 --> 00:39:12,399
Speaker 4: and despite my skepticism and go, okay, this is a prompt,

689
00:39:12,480 --> 00:39:16,640
Speaker 4: I'm on the right path. Or but it's interesting that

690
00:39:16,719 --> 00:39:20,040
Speaker 4: I have. I've never had a dream that caught up

691
00:39:20,080 --> 00:39:21,960
Speaker 4: with me later in life like Nate. But I do

692
00:39:22,080 --> 00:39:24,640
Speaker 4: understand the sense this sort of experience of like these

693
00:39:24,680 --> 00:39:28,520
Speaker 4: breadcrumbs along the way that are like, okay, this makes sense,

694
00:39:28,880 --> 00:39:30,880
Speaker 4: this is a familiar thing to me, or I know

695
00:39:31,000 --> 00:39:33,719
Speaker 4: that I know that this feels right because of this

696
00:39:33,840 --> 00:39:34,680
Speaker 4: cue that I'm getting.

697
00:39:34,719 --> 00:39:37,640
Speaker 5: I think that ties in kind of to you know,

698
00:39:37,800 --> 00:39:41,440
Speaker 5: like Nate kept having this dream and where is that

699
00:39:41,520 --> 00:39:44,560
Speaker 5: coming from? That it would all hit in this moment

700
00:39:44,600 --> 00:39:47,799
Speaker 5: where he recognized that that was something that the quote

701
00:39:47,840 --> 00:39:50,040
Speaker 5: unquote universe had been trying to tell him his whole life.

702
00:39:50,080 --> 00:39:53,200
Speaker 5: He was experiencing that at that moment. So for me,

703
00:39:53,280 --> 00:39:55,920
Speaker 5: it was a moment maybe just the way he magically

704
00:39:55,960 --> 00:39:59,040
Speaker 5: set up the mood of the story with the luminescence

705
00:39:59,360 --> 00:40:01,759
Speaker 5: floating behind them and just kind of it put me

706
00:40:01,800 --> 00:40:04,080
Speaker 5: in a real magical space to kind of be open

707
00:40:04,160 --> 00:40:07,359
Speaker 5: to whatever that possibility of what that dream could be,

708
00:40:07,960 --> 00:40:10,800
Speaker 5: and it is like, what is there on the other side,

709
00:40:10,960 --> 00:40:15,000
Speaker 5: you know, is this the universe or God telling him

710
00:40:15,440 --> 00:40:19,200
Speaker 5: something that's going to happen? Is his life preordained in

711
00:40:19,280 --> 00:40:23,719
Speaker 5: some way? But does that depend on the choices he's

712
00:40:23,719 --> 00:40:26,920
Speaker 5: making along the way? And that's sort of how I am,

713
00:40:27,320 --> 00:40:29,680
Speaker 5: even as a spiritual person. I don't really feel like

714
00:40:29,719 --> 00:40:31,120
Speaker 5: I need to know what's on the other side of

715
00:40:31,160 --> 00:40:33,720
Speaker 5: the veil, Like that's a surprise that we'll get to discover.

716
00:40:33,760 --> 00:40:36,080
Speaker 5: It's either there or it's not. But when you have

717
00:40:36,160 --> 00:40:40,240
Speaker 5: these moments like Nate's story, where this dream that keeps

718
00:40:40,239 --> 00:40:42,480
Speaker 5: haunting him throughout his life, what does that mean?

719
00:40:42,520 --> 00:40:45,400
Speaker 4: Well, we also we do just a little bit of

720
00:40:45,400 --> 00:40:47,839
Speaker 4: a counter maybe idea to what you're saying.

721
00:40:47,920 --> 00:40:50,200
Speaker 1: Learn about the brain like it does. It is a

722
00:40:50,239 --> 00:40:53,799
Speaker 1: creative process, and we are building narrative. That's what it's

723
00:40:53,840 --> 00:40:55,239
Speaker 1: good at. That's what it's supposed to do to help

724
00:40:55,320 --> 00:41:00,360
Speaker 1: us orient ourselves on multiple levels in our lives to

725
00:41:00,360 --> 00:41:04,319
Speaker 1: make sense of all of it. And there's even the

726
00:41:04,360 --> 00:41:07,600
Speaker 1: quantum field of like if it's not observed, then it's

727
00:41:07,600 --> 00:41:11,600
Speaker 1: not behaving in the same way behavior changes with the observation,

728
00:41:11,920 --> 00:41:13,759
Speaker 1: and it makes you wonder, well, what is what is

729
00:41:13,760 --> 00:41:13,960
Speaker 1: the thing?

730
00:41:14,080 --> 00:41:16,839
Speaker 4: What is the unobserved thing? Does the you know, tree

731
00:41:17,480 --> 00:41:21,359
Speaker 4: in the woods make us whatever? But I also think

732
00:41:21,400 --> 00:41:24,600
Speaker 4: that we, especially in the West and sort of euro

733
00:41:24,719 --> 00:41:30,200
Speaker 4: Western culture, we have really worked hard to create sort

734
00:41:30,200 --> 00:41:34,640
Speaker 4: of a box, and we have this box and we

735
00:41:34,760 --> 00:41:37,879
Speaker 4: try to fit everything into this box of understanding, whether

736
00:41:37,880 --> 00:41:40,920
Speaker 4: it through science or whether through faith or whatever. We

737
00:41:40,960 --> 00:41:43,120
Speaker 4: have this box, and anything outside of that box we

738
00:41:43,320 --> 00:41:46,279
Speaker 4: call supernatural, or we call you know, anything that is

739
00:41:46,400 --> 00:41:48,719
Speaker 4: not yet able to be measured or described, we we

740
00:41:48,800 --> 00:41:52,000
Speaker 4: have a problem with. But you know, there's so much

741
00:41:52,000 --> 00:41:53,880
Speaker 4: more outside of the box than there is inside the

742
00:41:53,880 --> 00:41:56,360
Speaker 4: box that we that we go, oh, this is reality,

743
00:41:56,400 --> 00:41:59,040
Speaker 4: this is the this box is reality. I'm so interested

744
00:41:59,080 --> 00:42:03,480
Speaker 4: in the infinite stuff that's outside of that box, you know.

745
00:42:03,960 --> 00:42:04,400
Speaker 5: Yeah, And.

746
00:42:06,000 --> 00:42:07,680
Speaker 1: I want us to be able to look past the box,

747
00:42:07,760 --> 00:42:09,520
Speaker 1: because it's a small box that we think is every

748
00:42:09,840 --> 00:42:11,080
Speaker 1: like this is everything, and it's like.

749
00:42:12,360 --> 00:42:14,320
Speaker 6: Is it is it? It's of course it's not. And

750
00:42:14,640 --> 00:42:17,000
Speaker 6: even like the little tendrils that are kind of reaching

751
00:42:17,160 --> 00:42:19,320
Speaker 6: out from the box or reaching into the box, and

752
00:42:19,360 --> 00:42:21,600
Speaker 6: you're kind of like, oh, that's okay. I don't know

753
00:42:21,680 --> 00:42:23,160
Speaker 6: quite to categorize that.

754
00:42:23,080 --> 00:42:26,160
Speaker 5: Well, even our religions do it. Even our religions are

755
00:42:26,280 --> 00:42:31,600
Speaker 5: an attempt rather than embracing the mystery. My critique of

756
00:42:31,600 --> 00:42:34,360
Speaker 5: my own religion is so many people want to define everything,

757
00:42:34,400 --> 00:42:37,000
Speaker 5: and I'm like, I think we're just here to enjoy

758
00:42:37,120 --> 00:42:37,680
Speaker 5: the ride o way.

759
00:42:38,000 --> 00:42:41,919
Speaker 4: This dogma is part of the human need to sort

760
00:42:41,960 --> 00:42:45,239
Speaker 4: of make sense of everything or make everything. You know,

761
00:42:45,280 --> 00:42:47,120
Speaker 4: we all we all think we know the mind of

762
00:42:47,120 --> 00:42:50,240
Speaker 4: God or something like. It's religions get that dogma where they're.

763
00:42:50,120 --> 00:42:53,040
Speaker 6: Like, but can we put it on a spreadsheet?

764
00:42:55,920 --> 00:42:56,120
Speaker 1: Nate?

765
00:42:56,200 --> 00:43:00,400
Speaker 4: For me, Nate's story was above all about feeling this

766
00:43:00,440 --> 00:43:03,200
Speaker 4: feeling that he kept talking about about feeling fully alive

767
00:43:03,239 --> 00:43:07,400
Speaker 4: and connected, like this state of mind where every sense

768
00:43:07,480 --> 00:43:10,920
Speaker 4: is heightened and where every moment feels vast and like electric.

769
00:43:12,840 --> 00:43:16,040
Speaker 4: And part of that was like his adrenaline rush when

770
00:43:16,440 --> 00:43:18,279
Speaker 4: he I guess he would get into some sort of

771
00:43:18,360 --> 00:43:20,720
Speaker 4: zone and we've all felt that zone where you're like, Okay,

772
00:43:20,719 --> 00:43:23,879
Speaker 4: I can see the outcome of this before I make

773
00:43:23,920 --> 00:43:26,960
Speaker 4: the move. But then he also describes these other moments

774
00:43:27,440 --> 00:43:30,239
Speaker 4: after having put himself at risk or gone on the

775
00:43:30,280 --> 00:43:33,880
Speaker 4: great adventure, where that beautiful stuff. Right where he's talking

776
00:43:33,880 --> 00:43:37,480
Speaker 4: about racing over the water at full sail, there's nothing

777
00:43:37,480 --> 00:43:40,680
Speaker 4: but the sound of the wind or the endless expanse

778
00:43:40,719 --> 00:43:42,919
Speaker 4: of the sea, and like the bioluminescence that he talks

779
00:43:42,920 --> 00:43:45,640
Speaker 4: about seeing, you know, like everybody wants that's the stuff

780
00:43:45,640 --> 00:43:50,240
Speaker 4: everybody wants to experience in the romantic idea of sailing.

781
00:43:50,280 --> 00:43:52,759
Speaker 4: But you can't get there unless you've gone through all

782
00:43:52,800 --> 00:43:56,480
Speaker 4: of the other hardships that go with sailing, the hot,

783
00:43:56,760 --> 00:44:00,600
Speaker 4: endless days with no wind, and do we have to

784
00:44:00,640 --> 00:44:04,279
Speaker 4: suffer and take these huge risks in order to have

785
00:44:04,360 --> 00:44:05,680
Speaker 4: these moments of transcendence.

786
00:44:06,400 --> 00:44:08,040
Speaker 5: Well, there's one thing I'd like to add to that

787
00:44:08,160 --> 00:44:10,319
Speaker 5: is he also talked about those moments when you've had

788
00:44:10,360 --> 00:44:13,640
Speaker 5: sleepless nights and you're broken and you make it through.

789
00:44:13,920 --> 00:44:17,560
Speaker 5: Like it's not just jumping off a train trestle or

790
00:44:17,600 --> 00:44:20,439
Speaker 5: sailing across the ocean. It's like when you've gone through

791
00:44:20,480 --> 00:44:23,680
Speaker 5: something that completely breaks you in your personal life and

792
00:44:23,719 --> 00:44:27,360
Speaker 5: you still survive. Like it's almost like pushing himself to

793
00:44:27,400 --> 00:44:31,680
Speaker 5: these extremes gives him the strength to also move forward

794
00:44:31,800 --> 00:44:35,040
Speaker 5: in difficult parts of his life, which I think is

795
00:44:35,040 --> 00:44:37,200
Speaker 5: a good lesson for everybody you know, like you can

796
00:44:37,239 --> 00:44:40,600
Speaker 5: make it through these moments even if you're not practicing

797
00:44:40,719 --> 00:44:43,319
Speaker 5: by jumping down a ravine or something like that.

798
00:44:43,440 --> 00:44:46,160
Speaker 4: You know, It's funny because I've been on a few

799
00:44:46,160 --> 00:44:49,840
Speaker 4: camping trips with Nate. We've been friends for many years,

800
00:44:49,840 --> 00:44:52,560
Speaker 4: but he and I didn't even know this story, like

801
00:44:52,840 --> 00:44:54,839
Speaker 4: he never told me the story before. And he also

802
00:44:54,840 --> 00:44:56,640
Speaker 4: has another whole story that's probably going to be another

803
00:44:56,680 --> 00:45:02,560
Speaker 4: episode of this podcast where he actually had a near

804
00:45:02,560 --> 00:45:08,440
Speaker 4: death experience whilst on a surfboard and saved attempted to

805
00:45:08,480 --> 00:45:12,000
Speaker 4: rescue another person who did die in his arms. And

806
00:45:12,040 --> 00:45:15,480
Speaker 4: he has another one where he was hit by a

807
00:45:15,520 --> 00:45:17,799
Speaker 4: hurricane and has this weird moment when he was in

808
00:45:17,800 --> 00:45:20,680
Speaker 4: the eye of the storm. Also another story at sea.

809
00:45:21,160 --> 00:45:23,440
Speaker 4: He's got all these water stories and this was just

810
00:45:23,520 --> 00:45:25,279
Speaker 4: one of them. And that crazy, but.

811
00:45:25,480 --> 00:45:27,240
Speaker 5: He's he's just a font of story.

812
00:45:28,440 --> 00:45:29,560
Speaker 2: But he yeah, he.

813
00:45:31,520 --> 00:45:34,839
Speaker 4: I was hiking with him in Zion National Park, which

814
00:45:34,880 --> 00:45:38,640
Speaker 4: is sort of almost like roadrunner Coyote Country, and there's

815
00:45:38,680 --> 00:45:40,759
Speaker 4: this one section where you hike along and we were

816
00:45:40,800 --> 00:45:43,240
Speaker 4: very tired. We'd already hiked like six or seven miles

817
00:45:43,440 --> 00:45:46,080
Speaker 4: and we're, you know, coming in the sun was going

818
00:45:46,120 --> 00:45:48,319
Speaker 4: down and it was kind of windy, and there was

819
00:45:48,800 --> 00:45:54,960
Speaker 4: this path that was like to the it was carved

820
00:45:54,960 --> 00:45:57,319
Speaker 4: into a rock cliff basically, and on your left there

821
00:45:57,360 --> 00:45:59,120
Speaker 4: was no guardrail, there was no nothing. It was just

822
00:45:59,239 --> 00:46:02,040
Speaker 4: you know, primitive. But it was a one thousand foot

823
00:46:02,120 --> 00:46:04,200
Speaker 4: drop and I mean sheer.

824
00:46:04,560 --> 00:46:04,920
Speaker 2: Yeah.

825
00:46:04,960 --> 00:46:06,319
Speaker 4: Like it wasn't like the kind where you look down

826
00:46:06,360 --> 00:46:08,239
Speaker 4: and you see a little bit some boulders fifteen feet

827
00:46:08,280 --> 00:46:10,120
Speaker 4: down kind of cropped out below you. No, this was

828
00:46:10,160 --> 00:46:13,279
Speaker 4: a sheer drop and I'm terrified of height, so I

829
00:46:13,320 --> 00:46:16,400
Speaker 4: was hugging the wall, you know, afraid to get anywhere

830
00:46:16,480 --> 00:46:19,480
Speaker 4: near this share. He was like he had a forty

831
00:46:19,520 --> 00:46:21,640
Speaker 4: five pound pack, which is way too heavy, and he

832
00:46:21,719 --> 00:46:24,359
Speaker 4: was just like with his toes sticking out over the ledge,

833
00:46:24,440 --> 00:46:28,279
Speaker 4: leaning over to look and kind of rocking and I

834
00:46:28,280 --> 00:46:30,759
Speaker 4: mean literally and with the weight of the pack on

835
00:46:30,800 --> 00:46:34,400
Speaker 4: his back, like any slip or any imbalance there, boom,

836
00:46:34,600 --> 00:46:36,839
Speaker 4: there would have been no more Nate. And it just

837
00:46:36,920 --> 00:46:38,719
Speaker 4: you know, and a cringe to even think about that.

838
00:46:38,760 --> 00:46:40,719
Speaker 4: But he's just this guy who's not He's just kind

839
00:46:40,719 --> 00:46:42,760
Speaker 4: of got this fearlessness about him which is insane.

840
00:46:43,480 --> 00:46:46,360
Speaker 5: And I don't know, he's also the most chill, laid

841
00:46:46,400 --> 00:46:48,640
Speaker 5: back guy. You would never know that he has this

842
00:46:48,760 --> 00:46:51,840
Speaker 5: danger streak if you just met him, because he's.

843
00:46:51,600 --> 00:46:54,240
Speaker 6: Yes and gets it all out for those adrenaline rushes.

844
00:46:54,719 --> 00:46:56,960
Speaker 6: He doesn't need to be wild in his real life.

845
00:46:57,640 --> 00:47:01,080
Speaker 6: In his daily life, you know that's wild. After the

846
00:47:01,120 --> 00:47:04,239
Speaker 6: first like two near death experiences on the water, I

847
00:47:04,320 --> 00:47:09,920
Speaker 6: might step back personally, but I'm happy that he's like, yeah, sure, that's.

848
00:47:09,760 --> 00:47:11,120
Speaker 2: How you feel alive, let's go.

849
00:47:11,360 --> 00:47:14,480
Speaker 4: He's able to achieve these moments where he feels completely

850
00:47:14,480 --> 00:47:17,760
Speaker 4: alive and completely awaken, in the zone of like aware

851
00:47:17,800 --> 00:47:20,400
Speaker 4: that he's in this body and aware that he's alive.

852
00:47:21,480 --> 00:47:24,799
Speaker 4: And that's interesting because I don't know that I'm one.

853
00:47:24,840 --> 00:47:26,719
Speaker 4: I don't know if I ever seek that out. I

854
00:47:26,840 --> 00:47:28,960
Speaker 4: like to go camping, and I like to do cool things.

855
00:47:29,000 --> 00:47:31,640
Speaker 4: I like to do hard things, but I've never been

856
00:47:31,800 --> 00:47:35,040
Speaker 4: like and I have experienced that feeling of like, oh

857
00:47:35,040 --> 00:47:37,279
Speaker 4: I am exhausted on more now this almost killed me,

858
00:47:37,360 --> 00:47:41,080
Speaker 4: you know, crack a beer whatever and sit back and go,

859
00:47:41,760 --> 00:47:45,160
Speaker 4: oh wow, this is kind of beautiful, and so I understand, like,

860
00:47:45,239 --> 00:47:47,520
Speaker 4: and that wouldn't You wouldn't have that moment unless you

861
00:47:47,520 --> 00:47:48,480
Speaker 4: had the previous moment.

862
00:47:49,760 --> 00:47:50,920
Speaker 2: So in many cases.

863
00:47:50,960 --> 00:47:55,440
Speaker 6: But yeah, yeah, I'm a very cautious person. I tend

864
00:47:55,480 --> 00:48:00,600
Speaker 6: to specifically not seek out moments like this because I

865
00:48:00,000 --> 00:48:04,120
Speaker 6: I'm anxious, just like getting up and making breakfast, and

866
00:48:04,239 --> 00:48:08,279
Speaker 6: so therefore, therefore the idea of going out on a

867
00:48:08,320 --> 00:48:10,000
Speaker 6: ship in the middle of a storm, like like, I'm

868
00:48:10,040 --> 00:48:11,919
Speaker 6: just like, no, no thanks, no thanks, I'm good here,

869
00:48:12,080 --> 00:48:15,240
Speaker 6: I'm great. Just sitting right, this is okay. I can

870
00:48:15,400 --> 00:48:17,799
Speaker 6: I don't know, like I'll watch the expanse and get

871
00:48:17,800 --> 00:48:22,600
Speaker 6: my jolly's out for a minute totally. But you know,

872
00:48:22,719 --> 00:48:26,840
Speaker 6: like like I'm a big fan of little thrills, but

873
00:48:26,880 --> 00:48:29,759
Speaker 6: I love the idea of pushing yourself further to.

874
00:48:29,800 --> 00:48:31,520
Speaker 1: I guess I had moments in your life when you

875
00:48:31,560 --> 00:48:39,040
Speaker 1: felt like extremely more quote alive than other like extraordinary

876
00:48:39,080 --> 00:48:42,960
Speaker 1: moments when when you're like, wow, I am really aware

877
00:48:43,040 --> 00:48:45,600
Speaker 1: and conscious of being alive and being in this body.

878
00:48:45,719 --> 00:48:48,680
Speaker 6: I mean, I guess you know, and anytime that you're

879
00:48:49,560 --> 00:48:54,120
Speaker 6: again like my nervous system is sort of always very

880
00:48:54,800 --> 00:48:58,520
Speaker 6: open and on fire and telling me a lot of

881
00:48:58,560 --> 00:49:01,400
Speaker 6: things about everything that's going on around me, and so

882
00:49:02,280 --> 00:49:06,560
Speaker 6: I can just walk outside and be like wow, wind,

883
00:49:07,080 --> 00:49:10,240
Speaker 6: who that's that's that's wild.

884
00:49:13,440 --> 00:49:14,840
Speaker 2: You're already sensitive.

885
00:49:15,000 --> 00:49:18,720
Speaker 6: Yeah, Like I talked to three people today that someone

886
00:49:18,760 --> 00:49:21,120
Speaker 6: had their phone on very loud. That's enough for me.

887
00:49:21,200 --> 00:49:26,080
Speaker 6: I'm going to go sit down for a while. I mean,

888
00:49:26,080 --> 00:49:28,200
Speaker 6: and of course, you know, like of course, like you know,

889
00:49:28,239 --> 00:49:32,239
Speaker 6: you go, you know on like a fast ride or

890
00:49:32,520 --> 00:49:35,520
Speaker 6: you know, like a you ride in a friend's fun

891
00:49:35,600 --> 00:49:38,160
Speaker 6: car on a motorcycle or something like that, and you're.

892
00:49:38,040 --> 00:49:38,879
Speaker 2: Like, oh, yeah, whoa.

893
00:49:39,400 --> 00:49:41,040
Speaker 6: But it's a little bit too intense for me. I'm

894
00:49:41,080 --> 00:49:42,400
Speaker 6: just like, I'm going to go back and just have

895
00:49:42,480 --> 00:49:43,919
Speaker 6: some hot sauce. That's plenty of Yeah.

896
00:49:43,920 --> 00:49:47,040
Speaker 5: I think my reaction after what he experienced wouldn't be

897
00:49:47,080 --> 00:49:48,920
Speaker 5: like I'm just gonna crack a beer and watch the

898
00:49:48,960 --> 00:49:51,200
Speaker 5: sense that I think I just sit and shake for

899
00:49:51,239 --> 00:49:53,880
Speaker 5: about forty minutes and write and think about it the

900
00:49:53,880 --> 00:49:56,000
Speaker 5: next three days, like, oh my god, I almost died.

901
00:49:56,040 --> 00:49:58,640
Speaker 5: You know, I just don't have that as I was

902
00:49:58,719 --> 00:50:01,359
Speaker 5: really accident prone little so I was breaking my arm

903
00:50:01,400 --> 00:50:03,359
Speaker 5: or I was breaking my shoulder all this stuff as

904
00:50:03,400 --> 00:50:05,960
Speaker 5: a young kid, and I think I just was like,

905
00:50:06,080 --> 00:50:07,839
Speaker 5: you know, you could really get hurt if you do that.

906
00:50:07,920 --> 00:50:08,640
Speaker 5: So I was always a.

907
00:50:08,640 --> 00:50:12,040
Speaker 1: Little more I wonder if it's like amigdala is smaller

908
00:50:12,040 --> 00:50:14,800
Speaker 1: than everybody else's, you know, like if he has no fear,

909
00:50:14,960 --> 00:50:18,480
Speaker 1: and he's like, you know, what does is Nate Dorn

910
00:50:18,560 --> 00:50:21,920
Speaker 1: capable of experiencing PTSD? I don't think so.

911
00:50:23,320 --> 00:50:24,359
Speaker 2: Yeah, I don't know. Man.

912
00:50:25,360 --> 00:50:27,480
Speaker 4: It reminded me that there's there was a Buddhist monk

913
00:50:27,520 --> 00:50:30,520
Speaker 4: who talked about pain and suffering as being two very

914
00:50:30,520 --> 00:50:36,880
Speaker 4: different things. Pain is your nervous system and it's something

915
00:50:36,880 --> 00:50:40,560
Speaker 4: that you can't necessarily control. Suffering is not pain. Suffering

916
00:50:40,640 --> 00:50:43,480
Speaker 4: is the story we tell ourselves about the pain. And

917
00:50:43,880 --> 00:50:46,160
Speaker 4: for Nate, you know, and I see it like I

918
00:50:46,200 --> 00:50:47,840
Speaker 4: see it with my kids on the soccer field, like

919
00:50:48,200 --> 00:50:51,160
Speaker 4: one kid will fall down and skin his knee and

920
00:50:52,719 --> 00:50:55,279
Speaker 4: just really lean into the drama of that and the

921
00:50:55,360 --> 00:50:59,600
Speaker 4: narrative he tells himself. Our little friend Jonah actually sit

922
00:50:59,640 --> 00:51:01,279
Speaker 4: cried out at one time and when he skinned his

923
00:51:01,360 --> 00:51:04,239
Speaker 4: knee when when he was visiting, and he said it

924
00:51:04,280 --> 00:51:10,360
Speaker 4: was probably five years already. He said, dear God, why

925
00:51:11,200 --> 00:51:12,280
Speaker 4: the cutest.

926
00:51:11,880 --> 00:51:12,560
Speaker 2: Thing I've ever.

927
00:51:14,040 --> 00:51:16,360
Speaker 1: It's okay, Jonah.

928
00:51:16,400 --> 00:51:18,560
Speaker 4: But then other kids, you know, skin their knee and

929
00:51:18,560 --> 00:51:20,160
Speaker 4: they get them and keep running and they have a

930
00:51:20,160 --> 00:51:23,040
Speaker 4: different narrative that they're telling themselves about what's happening to them.

931
00:51:23,080 --> 00:51:26,000
Speaker 4: And and Nate, Yeah, he has a different he has

932
00:51:26,040 --> 00:51:28,120
Speaker 4: his his narrative is a.

933
00:51:28,040 --> 00:51:33,040
Speaker 6: Shrug yeah, which is amazing. I hate calling other people's

934
00:51:33,080 --> 00:51:36,480
Speaker 6: stories inspirational, but it is like, oh yeah, like maybe

935
00:51:36,560 --> 00:51:39,239
Speaker 6: maybe I should like like like d clench a tiny bit.

936
00:51:39,480 --> 00:51:39,800
Speaker 2: Yeah.

937
00:51:39,800 --> 00:51:44,439
Speaker 4: So the stories we tell ourselves about our experiences, that's

938
00:51:44,600 --> 00:51:45,280
Speaker 4: the perspective.

939
00:51:45,320 --> 00:51:46,200
Speaker 2: And that is a choice.

940
00:51:46,320 --> 00:51:49,480
Speaker 4: That's not you know that, that is a voluntary thing.

941
00:51:50,040 --> 00:51:51,920
Speaker 6: That does bring up one other point that I wanted

942
00:51:51,960 --> 00:51:56,440
Speaker 6: to raise, and that is he talked about never like

943
00:51:56,560 --> 00:52:00,360
Speaker 6: previous to this event, never having the concept of getting

944
00:52:00,400 --> 00:52:03,439
Speaker 6: older than he just about was right then like mid

945
00:52:03,480 --> 00:52:06,480
Speaker 6: twenties or so. And I wanted to ask you, guys,

946
00:52:06,520 --> 00:52:08,319
Speaker 6: did you think about this when you were a kid,

947
00:52:08,360 --> 00:52:11,440
Speaker 6: Like did you were you able to perceive yourselves as

948
00:52:11,560 --> 00:52:13,360
Speaker 6: being as old as you are now.

949
00:52:14,800 --> 00:52:15,200
Speaker 2: Thirty?

950
00:52:15,600 --> 00:52:17,200
Speaker 4: I remember talking to my friends and we were like,

951
00:52:17,239 --> 00:52:19,759
Speaker 4: we'll meet back when we're you know, like eight years

952
00:52:19,760 --> 00:52:21,920
Speaker 4: old or something. We'll meet back at this one place

953
00:52:21,960 --> 00:52:26,920
Speaker 4: when we're thirty, as if it was like forever, Oh sure,

954
00:52:27,360 --> 00:52:34,279
Speaker 4: oh my god, like and yeah, I have I have

955
00:52:34,440 --> 00:52:39,680
Speaker 4: never I've always seen myself as throughout all these stages

956
00:52:39,719 --> 00:52:42,279
Speaker 4: of life. In fact, I see myself as probably I

957
00:52:42,320 --> 00:52:45,960
Speaker 4: see myself as potentially being one hundred. I've never had

958
00:52:46,000 --> 00:52:48,960
Speaker 4: this block that he described of like I you know,

959
00:52:49,000 --> 00:52:53,600
Speaker 4: we had another story Lauren earlier in the season where

960
00:52:54,640 --> 00:52:58,839
Speaker 4: the person had the exact same block at the exact

961
00:52:58,880 --> 00:53:02,400
Speaker 4: same age. She had the same thing happen. It was

962
00:53:02,440 --> 00:53:05,279
Speaker 4: a water incident. She never could see herself past the

963
00:53:05,320 --> 00:53:08,400
Speaker 4: edge of twenty five, and then this incident happened pretty

964
00:53:08,480 --> 00:53:11,839
Speaker 4: much I think, right around her birthday, same as Nate.

965
00:53:12,520 --> 00:53:17,480
Speaker 4: And then it changed after she survived. She almost like

966
00:53:18,160 --> 00:53:20,400
Speaker 4: I think she described it almost as like having skipped

967
00:53:20,400 --> 00:53:24,880
Speaker 4: into a parallel yeah, like reality where we're in this

968
00:53:25,040 --> 00:53:27,240
Speaker 4: she shifted into another reality where in this other reality

969
00:53:27,320 --> 00:53:28,160
Speaker 4: she keeps going.

970
00:53:29,640 --> 00:53:30,000
Speaker 2: Anyway.

971
00:53:30,000 --> 00:53:31,960
Speaker 4: But it was it was literally the same phenomenon. I

972
00:53:32,000 --> 00:53:33,160
Speaker 4: wonder if there's a lot of people that are like,

973
00:53:33,160 --> 00:53:34,880
Speaker 4: I can't see myself past twenty five.

974
00:53:34,920 --> 00:53:37,320
Speaker 2: And then some incident will happen.

975
00:53:37,360 --> 00:53:38,880
Speaker 4: I mean, there's two of them we've got now in

976
00:53:38,880 --> 00:53:39,239
Speaker 4: this show.

977
00:53:39,280 --> 00:53:40,520
Speaker 5: So I have to admit, when I was listening to

978
00:53:40,520 --> 00:53:43,920
Speaker 5: a story, I was like, at that age, I couldn't

979
00:53:43,960 --> 00:53:45,960
Speaker 5: see myself at age, even when I was twenty two.

980
00:53:45,960 --> 00:53:48,240
Speaker 5: I couldn't see myself at age twenty five or thirty,

981
00:53:48,320 --> 00:53:50,880
Speaker 5: which is why I didn't have a mutual fund or

982
00:53:50,920 --> 00:53:52,440
Speaker 5: wasn't planning ahead or what I was going to do

983
00:53:52,480 --> 00:53:54,840
Speaker 5: in college. And so I was going to leave it

984
00:53:54,840 --> 00:53:57,000
Speaker 5: alone because it's like, it's such a great narrative device

985
00:53:57,080 --> 00:54:00,279
Speaker 5: that he did. Couldn't see himself into the future, and

986
00:54:00,320 --> 00:54:03,600
Speaker 5: then he had this transformative moment. But I'm like, I

987
00:54:03,719 --> 00:54:06,040
Speaker 5: just I didn't have like any sense of who I

988
00:54:06,040 --> 00:54:10,480
Speaker 5: would be past the age of whatever age I was in,

989
00:54:10,520 --> 00:54:12,799
Speaker 5: And there's always very present even right now. I'm very

990
00:54:12,840 --> 00:54:14,520
Speaker 5: present in my age that I am right now. I

991
00:54:14,560 --> 00:54:16,560
Speaker 5: don't wish I was younger or older. I don't really

992
00:54:16,640 --> 00:54:20,799
Speaker 5: think about what I'll be like when I'm older, or

993
00:54:21,480 --> 00:54:23,680
Speaker 5: really reflect a whole lot back on when I was younger.

994
00:54:23,719 --> 00:54:26,279
Speaker 5: I'm just very in the moment, I guess, so, yeah, and.

995
00:54:26,239 --> 00:54:29,480
Speaker 6: I think it's okay if your transformative moment is slightly smaller.

996
00:54:29,640 --> 00:54:32,040
Speaker 5: Yeah. It was almost like a rite of passage, you

997
00:54:32,040 --> 00:54:33,880
Speaker 5: know that they have in all these other cultures, Like

998
00:54:34,000 --> 00:54:38,839
Speaker 5: that experience that he dreamed about allowed him then to

999
00:54:39,080 --> 00:54:41,160
Speaker 5: contemplate adulthood, you know.

1000
00:54:42,080 --> 00:54:45,400
Speaker 1: Yeah, and then he began to have plans for the

1001
00:54:45,400 --> 00:54:47,960
Speaker 1: first time. Yeah, that'd be interesting to live a life

1002
00:54:48,000 --> 00:54:49,480
Speaker 1: without ever having a plan.

1003
00:54:49,719 --> 00:54:54,680
Speaker 5: That's what I did. I don't recommend it.

1004
00:55:05,680 --> 00:55:06,080
Speaker 2: Next time.

1005
00:55:06,120 --> 00:55:08,720
Speaker 1: On Alive Again, we hear from Chris Alonzo, who survived

1006
00:55:08,719 --> 00:55:12,520
Speaker 1: a devastating tornado and rediscovered his faith amidst the destruction,

1007
00:55:12,880 --> 00:55:14,359
Speaker 1: finding community.

1008
00:55:13,920 --> 00:55:14,840
Speaker 2: And a path forward.

1009
00:55:15,520 --> 00:55:18,360
Speaker 7: In this panicked moment, and in this moment of desperation,

1010
00:55:18,520 --> 00:55:21,399
Speaker 7: I remember thinking, take me, don't take my son. Take

1011
00:55:21,440 --> 00:55:27,520
Speaker 7: me something that reminded me. Hey man, in your deepest, darkest,

1012
00:55:27,800 --> 00:55:31,040
Speaker 7: most frightened moment, you didn't appeal to science.

1013
00:55:32,480 --> 00:55:33,759
Speaker 2: You appeal to God.

1014
00:55:37,680 --> 00:55:41,200
Speaker 1: Our story producers are Dan Bush, Kate Sweeney, Brent Die,

1015
00:55:41,640 --> 00:55:46,280
Speaker 1: Nicholas Dakowski, and Lauren Vogelbaum. Music by Ben Lovett, additional

1016
00:55:46,320 --> 00:55:50,400
Speaker 1: music by Alexander Rodriguez. Our executive producers are Matthew Frederick

1017
00:55:50,440 --> 00:55:53,640
Speaker 1: and Trevor Young. Special thanks to Alexander Williams for additional

1018
00:55:53,640 --> 00:55:57,680
Speaker 1: production support. Our studio engineers are Rima El Kali and

1019
00:55:57,760 --> 00:56:02,560
Speaker 1: Noames Griffin. Our editors are Dan Bush, Gerhartslovitchka, Brent Die,

1020
00:56:02,680 --> 00:56:06,600
Speaker 1: and Alexander Rodriguez. Mixing by Ben Lovett and Alexander Rodriguez.

1021
00:56:07,200 --> 00:56:10,920
Speaker 1: I'm your host, Dan Bush Special thanks to Nate Dorn

1022
00:56:11,000 --> 00:56:14,280
Speaker 1: for sharing his story. Nate is a talented photographer based

1023
00:56:14,280 --> 00:56:17,640
Speaker 1: in Atlanta, Georgia. You can explore Nate's work and creativity

1024
00:56:18,120 --> 00:56:23,720
Speaker 1: by visiting Natedornimages dot com. Alive Again is a production

1025
00:56:23,760 --> 00:56:26,920
Speaker 1: of iHeart Radio and Psychopia Pictures. If you have a

1026
00:56:26,960 --> 00:56:30,000
Speaker 1: transformative near death experience to share, we'd love to hear

1027
00:56:30,040 --> 00:56:34,600
Speaker 1: your story. Please email us at Alive Again Project at

1028
00:56:34,600 --> 00:56:38,360
Speaker 1: gmail dot com. That's a l I V E A

1029
00:56:38,520 --> 00:56:41,719
Speaker 1: g A I N P R O j E C

1030
00:56:41,960 --> 00:57:10,560
Speaker 1: T at gmail dot com.