WEBVTT - The Art of War 0:00:01.080 --> 0:00:07.560 Uh, check check. Yeah, you are listening waiting on reparations productions. 0:00:07.640 --> 0:00:10.680 I heart radio Yo coming and spitting like a bat 0:00:10.680 --> 0:00:12.360 of the hell a lot of all right, we want 0:00:12.360 --> 0:00:14.480 to see the mac of the cell. But they aren't right. 0:00:14.520 --> 0:00:17.080 What they try happen to fail and they can't keep up, 0:00:17.079 --> 0:00:20.040 so they tattle the tail. But they are stupid. I say, 0:00:20.079 --> 0:00:22.040 all nuclear hits the law with a jupan and take 0:00:22.040 --> 0:00:25.080 a school to the Jupiter. What the hell is that mean? 0:00:25.200 --> 0:00:28.120 I don't know, but I go slow, yellow, angry mellow 0:00:28.160 --> 0:00:30.840 athlete cross legs in the folk arms. But they have 0:00:30.880 --> 0:00:34.720 a conversation with soul conte knife lingua Franca's volte tron 0:00:34.960 --> 0:00:45.760 Ya ain't never heard ship Yo holds on Yo. It's 0:00:46.240 --> 0:00:54.560 dope knife Franca and we are waiting our reparation. I 0:00:54.680 --> 0:00:56.120 had to I had to throw that in there in 0:00:56.200 --> 0:01:00.600 the spirit of our topic today. Yeah, I know you 0:01:00.720 --> 0:01:02.240 beat me to the punch because I was gonna like 0:01:02.320 --> 0:01:05.520 throw in one too, but yeah, yeah, So to this week. Well, 0:01:05.600 --> 0:01:07.120 before we get into the topic of this week, how 0:01:07.200 --> 0:01:10.280 are you, what's good? What's going on? I'm good, I'm good. Um, 0:01:10.680 --> 0:01:13.920 you know I can't complain about much, just super busy, 0:01:14.280 --> 0:01:17.280 but otherwise, you know, life is life is treating me 0:01:17.319 --> 0:01:20.839 pretty here in the process of opening a studio. Yeah yeah, 0:01:20.880 --> 0:01:23.400 I'm I'm you know, I got myself a little studio space, 0:01:23.520 --> 0:01:25.840 so I'm like still in the process of getting all 0:01:25.880 --> 0:01:28.040 the equipment in and stuff like that. But you know, 0:01:28.160 --> 0:01:31.480 it's just you know, just doing a little little side 0:01:31.520 --> 0:01:34.480 projects things. I started working on a new album too, 0:01:34.840 --> 0:01:38.240 but fantastic yea, you know, all that sort of stuff. 0:01:38.280 --> 0:01:42.200 But we we have a extremely stacked episode and one 0:01:42.240 --> 0:01:44.679 that I'm pretty excited to deliver, so I think we're 0:01:44.680 --> 0:01:47.120 just gonna get into it today. We're gonna be talking 0:01:47.160 --> 0:01:51.480 about aspect of this hip hop thing that we both 0:01:51.600 --> 0:01:54.640 have some experiencing. We might have mentioned it once or 0:01:54.680 --> 0:01:56.720 twice or a million times on the show before, but 0:01:56.800 --> 0:01:59.920 we're gonna be talking about the art of battle rap, 0:02:00.120 --> 0:02:03.080 being should I say, the culture of battle rapping of 0:02:03.240 --> 0:02:06.520 one of the two The lines are they're kind of blurry, 0:02:08.240 --> 0:02:12.280 but um, there's there's there's a lot of things, you know, 0:02:12.360 --> 0:02:16.640 when it comes to to doing hip hop and also 0:02:16.800 --> 0:02:21.120 being I hate using the word conscious, but being you know, 0:02:21.280 --> 0:02:25.760 involved or aware of politics in your case, involved in politics, 0:02:25.880 --> 0:02:29.000 like directly you come across a lot of aspects of 0:02:29.120 --> 0:02:33.400 it um that are kind of ingrained in the culture 0:02:33.440 --> 0:02:38.440 as it exists now that don't necessarily vibe with who 0:02:38.560 --> 0:02:41.480 you are politically or ideologically. We kind of touched on 0:02:41.600 --> 0:02:45.840 this in the more Money, More Problematic episode, but um, 0:02:46.760 --> 0:02:50.639 I would say, and and we probably haven't experienced that 0:02:50.919 --> 0:02:54.600 as much, but because we know we're both on the 0:02:54.720 --> 0:02:58.600 more on the recording performing side of things, but we have, like, 0:02:58.840 --> 0:03:03.920 you know, background dabbling in battle rap. But the aspect 0:03:03.960 --> 0:03:06.519 that I think would probably find you conflicting with that 0:03:06.760 --> 0:03:09.760 the most would probably be battle rap, you know what 0:03:09.800 --> 0:03:13.200 I'm saying. Yeah, akin to the momenty more Problematic episode 0:03:13.240 --> 0:03:15.400 where we talk about like club bangers that you put 0:03:15.440 --> 0:03:18.480 on you kind of ignore their lyrical content because it's 0:03:18.520 --> 0:03:20.440 so fine, but like you just you just get in 0:03:20.480 --> 0:03:23.440 the moment, I think battle rap culture and then like 0:03:23.520 --> 0:03:27.959 the cipher as a space UM is another place where 0:03:28.040 --> 0:03:31.600 like you kind of have to leave your your moral 0:03:32.919 --> 0:03:37.640 your your moral compass at the door, you know. And 0:03:37.920 --> 0:03:39.640 so we're gonna talk a little bit about that today. 0:03:40.720 --> 0:03:44.080 It's like, um, you know, some a wise m C 0:03:44.560 --> 0:03:47.960 once told me when I was first starting, he was like, uh, 0:03:48.440 --> 0:03:52.240 finding your voice as like a rapper, it's all about 0:03:52.360 --> 0:03:55.560 finding who you are. It's like who you are in 0:03:55.680 --> 0:03:58.880 real life, but with the volume turned way up, you 0:03:58.920 --> 0:04:01.720 know what I'm saying. And like the battle rap when 0:04:01.760 --> 0:04:04.640 you get into battle rap mode, when you do it seriously, 0:04:04.680 --> 0:04:07.000 when you're like just you know, messing around with your friends, 0:04:07.040 --> 0:04:08.800 it's one thing. But when you're like doing it in 0:04:08.880 --> 0:04:12.600 a competition format where you actually really want to win, 0:04:13.240 --> 0:04:16.560 that's when that like character mass comes on and you're like, 0:04:17.360 --> 0:04:20.320 you're not You're not Kendrick Mac anymore. You know, because 0:04:20.480 --> 0:04:23.600 anybody who knows me personally like I'm I'm always smiling 0:04:23.720 --> 0:04:25.840 and ship, you know what I mean. But it's like 0:04:25.960 --> 0:04:29.640 in battle mode, you're like in a fugue state of 0:04:31.200 --> 0:04:35.960 of of wrap in in like lyrical sparring that It's 0:04:36.040 --> 0:04:38.240 it's kind of hard to describe. So we're gonna get 0:04:38.279 --> 0:04:40.160 into that, and we're going to be talking about that 0:04:40.440 --> 0:04:45.280 very subject with um battle Rapper Extraordinaire and left this 0:04:45.400 --> 0:04:48.880 activist soul con who's gonna come up. We're gonna talk 0:04:48.880 --> 0:04:51.320 about how he deals with that conflict as well as 0:04:51.480 --> 0:04:53.920 his background and hip hop and how he got into 0:04:53.960 --> 0:04:57.440 battle rap and just how he's witnessed. It evolved through 0:04:57.680 --> 0:05:02.840 through the through the days. So getting into things. Battle rap, 0:05:02.960 --> 0:05:05.200 you know, more or less is believed to have started 0:05:05.240 --> 0:05:07.960 in the East Coast of New York back in the 0:05:08.320 --> 0:05:12.960 nineteen eighties. But Mariah, if you had to describe to somebody, 0:05:13.040 --> 0:05:16.200 like if if someone you know had hadn't even seen 0:05:16.279 --> 0:05:18.840 eight lile, like someone coming in that blind, if they 0:05:18.960 --> 0:05:21.440 just like asked you, what is battle rap? I heard 0:05:21.440 --> 0:05:23.280 of it? How would you describe it to them? Well, 0:05:23.320 --> 0:05:25.760 I feel like someone might be familiar with the concept 0:05:25.839 --> 0:05:29.280 of freestyle, but ahead of their awareness of some of 0:05:29.400 --> 0:05:32.960 the some of the conventions of battle rap as a 0:05:33.040 --> 0:05:37.200 subgenre within that general style. And so with freestyle, I mean, 0:05:37.240 --> 0:05:41.080 you're imp it's improvisation, it's metered, it's rhymed um. But 0:05:41.360 --> 0:05:44.120 within battle rap, it's it's a contest. And so it's 0:05:44.200 --> 0:05:48.640 drawing on anything from the physical mannerisms and manner of speech, 0:05:49.240 --> 0:05:53.680 the per where someone's from of your of your content, 0:05:53.800 --> 0:05:56.760 if your fellow contestant, of the person who stepped into 0:05:56.760 --> 0:06:00.360 you in that space, um to determine who has not 0:06:00.480 --> 0:06:03.840 only the best lyricism with regards to like metaphors and 0:06:03.880 --> 0:06:08.200 analogies akin to the way we might um evaluate rap 0:06:08.320 --> 0:06:11.800 for large but I think there's particularly a comedy component 0:06:12.520 --> 0:06:15.279 that you don't always see in a lot of other rappers. 0:06:15.640 --> 0:06:17.080 I mean you see a little bits here and there, 0:06:17.160 --> 0:06:21.360 but particularly like making jokes on someone and making the 0:06:21.400 --> 0:06:23.880 crowd laugh, like you know, making like making the crowd 0:06:24.000 --> 0:06:28.280 like freak out with um your your quick thought, but 0:06:28.440 --> 0:06:32.880 particularly like bringing someone down to peg with you know, 0:06:33.040 --> 0:06:35.440 references to what choose their wear and what have they 0:06:35.480 --> 0:06:38.320 got on that something a girlfriend, but that that sort 0:06:38.320 --> 0:06:42.560 of things like the punchline a peg is a little 0:06:42.600 --> 0:06:46.240 bit of an understatement. You're trying to bring them down 0:06:46.360 --> 0:06:50.279 like a whole, a whole like of bringing them down, 0:06:51.120 --> 0:06:52.800 you're trying to make it so that they never returned 0:06:52.839 --> 0:06:56.640 to that venue again, exactly. Know, I I agree with 0:06:56.760 --> 0:07:00.200 like that description is like spot on. I think it's like, uh, 0:07:00.720 --> 0:07:03.560 it's like a when you get past the musical element 0:07:03.600 --> 0:07:05.479 of it, and we're gonna get a little bit into 0:07:05.560 --> 0:07:07.760 that too. But when once you get past the musical 0:07:07.839 --> 0:07:11.960 element of it, that it's you know, rapping and uh, 0:07:12.440 --> 0:07:14.880 you know over a beat, it's kind of like a 0:07:14.960 --> 0:07:17.400 battle of wits, you know, especially when you get into 0:07:17.440 --> 0:07:20.280 the freestyle zone, it's like who you know, because you 0:07:20.360 --> 0:07:23.640 can come in with stuff prepared or things in mind, 0:07:24.320 --> 0:07:27.800 but when you're reacting off of what the person said, 0:07:27.840 --> 0:07:30.160 and when that person is reacting off of what you said, 0:07:30.360 --> 0:07:32.760 or you're reacting off things that happened during that day, 0:07:32.840 --> 0:07:34.680 and you're bringing it up in the battle, like all 0:07:34.720 --> 0:07:38.320 of those things add to it, but you're bringing up 0:07:38.400 --> 0:07:41.560 the comedic element. That pretty much is the key. That's 0:07:41.600 --> 0:07:46.040 like the strategy to like winning of battles is if 0:07:46.120 --> 0:07:49.280 you're funny and if you make people laugh at your opponent. 0:07:50.880 --> 0:07:52.880 You know that that's kind of the goal right there. 0:07:53.000 --> 0:07:55.200 So however you can do that, I know some people 0:07:55.240 --> 0:07:58.760 that are able to do that in like a a 0:07:58.960 --> 0:08:02.600 very self apprecating Seinfeld sort of way. There are people 0:08:02.680 --> 0:08:04.480 who were able to do that in like a tough 0:08:04.560 --> 0:08:08.880 guy screaming sort of way, and and everything in between. 0:08:09.040 --> 0:08:11.280 But that's kind of the goal of it, I think. 0:08:11.360 --> 0:08:14.160 I mean, there's I will never forget this picture rap 0:08:14.200 --> 0:08:19.320 bottle I was in where um uh, this m C 0:08:19.560 --> 0:08:22.960 I was up against won the battle by taking away 0:08:23.040 --> 0:08:25.720 everything I could possibly say about him. I was up 0:08:25.760 --> 0:08:28.320 against this like short white guy and everyone always made 0:08:28.360 --> 0:08:30.640 fun of him for being short and white and like 0:08:30.840 --> 0:08:33.520 you know, imminent comparisons, and like he got out there 0:08:33.640 --> 0:08:37.040 and was just like super self deprecating and had everybody 0:08:37.360 --> 0:08:40.000 roll it, losing their minds laughing, and I had nothing 0:08:40.080 --> 0:08:43.760 left to make a joke about him about because like 0:08:44.280 --> 0:08:45.880 what am I gonna call him short again? Like what 0:08:46.000 --> 0:08:47.719 am I gonna you know, like call of the keepler elf? 0:08:47.800 --> 0:08:50.080 He just he literally just did that. And so yeah, 0:08:50.200 --> 0:08:53.000 there's you can't flip it on your head. But mostly those, 0:08:53.320 --> 0:08:56.480 you know, slights are aimed at your opponent. But I 0:08:56.600 --> 0:08:59.960 think I think where this intersect with like On's person 0:09:00.200 --> 0:09:04.720 politics is like you're discursively positioning yourself in the space 0:09:04.840 --> 0:09:08.480 and a hierarchy of skills, the guardsire, linguistic dessarity, um, 0:09:08.640 --> 0:09:12.920 et cetera. But in the joke making aspect, you're also 0:09:13.480 --> 0:09:19.400 positioning yourself in hierarchies alongline race, gender, class, ethnicity, sexuality, 0:09:19.440 --> 0:09:22.760 street affiliation. Um. So you're putting somebody down like, oh, 0:09:22.960 --> 0:09:25.280 like you know, you ain't really black, or you're a woman, 0:09:25.400 --> 0:09:27.480 or you're gay, or you're or I think you're gay, 0:09:27.760 --> 0:09:30.600 or oh you're Mexican, or your Latine or your Latino, 0:09:30.840 --> 0:09:34.480 You're Asian as a way of like through the word 0:09:34.559 --> 0:09:38.599 play creating a hierarchy you know, based on like the 0:09:38.679 --> 0:09:40.679 black the straight black male is at the top of 0:09:40.720 --> 0:09:43.880 the hierarchy in in a battle wrap space, and everybody 0:09:43.920 --> 0:09:48.439 else like whether real or perceived, UM, trying to put 0:09:48.559 --> 0:09:51.319 someone on you know, a lower rung than you, and 0:09:51.440 --> 0:09:54.600 so whether or not that actually aligns with your politics 0:09:55.000 --> 0:09:57.480 outside of that space, you know, whether or not you 0:09:57.600 --> 0:10:00.679 really like think lead of of less than you or 0:10:00.760 --> 0:10:04.000 you really want to go around making jokes about LGBTQ people. 0:10:04.720 --> 0:10:09.880 Um is where there's where like the the moral rug 0:10:10.160 --> 0:10:13.200 gets a little slippery under your feet in the space, 0:10:13.440 --> 0:10:15.000 and I guess like something that we want to kind 0:10:15.040 --> 0:10:20.199 of unpack today. UM. I've definitely um been in some 0:10:20.480 --> 0:10:23.120 circles where I've been in you know a lot of 0:10:23.679 --> 0:10:25.840 odd hip hop circles, but I've been in a lot 0:10:25.880 --> 0:10:30.760 of battle spaces where you know, it's in real life, 0:10:30.840 --> 0:10:33.800 it's like all all sorts of people who are there 0:10:33.840 --> 0:10:36.120 on all different you know, from all different walks of life, 0:10:36.640 --> 0:10:40.360 but within the confines of the arena of battle rap, 0:10:40.400 --> 0:10:44.719 there's kind of like that understanding amongst everybody that you know, 0:10:45.080 --> 0:10:48.320 it's it's just battle rap, you know what I'm saying. 0:10:48.880 --> 0:10:52.800 So from that aspect, people don't really people who are 0:10:52.880 --> 0:10:55.480 in those spaces don't really take it that way. But 0:10:56.280 --> 0:10:58.839 to like to an outsider being in there, it's like 0:10:58.920 --> 0:11:00.760 you're look, you're listening to You're like, oh my god, 0:11:00.800 --> 0:11:02.599 can you believe that person said x y Z? And 0:11:02.600 --> 0:11:04.439 can believe that other person said x y C. This 0:11:04.559 --> 0:11:06.080 is this is crazy? And then the two of them 0:11:06.160 --> 0:11:08.079 were like shaking hands and getting a drink and like 0:11:08.200 --> 0:11:12.920 smiling afterwards, and you know, it's exactly exactly yeah. And 0:11:13.160 --> 0:11:16.079 I often referenced that aspect of battle rap. It is 0:11:16.160 --> 0:11:19.400 like very formative for like how I operate within the 0:11:19.440 --> 0:11:22.719 puddle sphere and why I think that battle rapping and 0:11:22.800 --> 0:11:25.760 free styling activities like that actually gear people up for 0:11:26.080 --> 0:11:29.280 like civic leadership into this weird way because like when 0:11:29.320 --> 0:11:31.120 I go to a meeting at city hall, I can 0:11:31.200 --> 0:11:34.599 like be yelling until I'm spinning in people's face, but 0:11:34.720 --> 0:11:37.120 afterwards like, oh, you know, have a you know, have 0:11:37.240 --> 0:11:39.319 a good have a good night, Mike, I You'll have 0:11:39.520 --> 0:11:42.280 your wife and ship. Um, just like in a in 0:11:42.360 --> 0:11:45.120 a battle when someone come at me like oh you're 0:11:45.200 --> 0:11:47.400 left being you don't shave your legs and your hand 0:11:47.520 --> 0:11:50.200 nappy a lot and the like. But at the end 0:11:50.240 --> 0:11:52.719 of it, like you you dap and you have a 0:11:52.760 --> 0:11:54.960 shot together and it's like all good or not. Chill 0:11:55.720 --> 0:11:59.079 um regularly with yeah, sorry, yeah, I go friend, no no, no, 0:11:59.320 --> 0:12:01.160 I have a good story about telling. I'll tell it 0:12:01.280 --> 0:12:03.319 at the end of it. Um. But yeah. So so 0:12:03.720 --> 0:12:09.480 let's uh, let's get into some of the earliest references 0:12:09.600 --> 0:12:12.440 to battling. So so, yeah you brought up the better 0:12:12.520 --> 0:12:15.360 rap started with East Coast hip hop during the nineteen eighties. 0:12:15.800 --> 0:12:20.920 But really, this this ritual or this tradition of ritual 0:12:21.040 --> 0:12:24.559 insult go it within the black community goes back. You know. 0:12:24.600 --> 0:12:28.439 It was first documented by the psychologist John Dollard in 0:12:29.280 --> 0:12:32.959 nine UM when he was taking a look at the 0:12:33.120 --> 0:12:36.040 way people played the dozens so trading verbal insults in 0:12:36.080 --> 0:12:39.079 a joking manner before an audience of associates, you know, 0:12:39.360 --> 0:12:43.319 jabbing the people about hygiene or sex, homosexuality, ugliness, intelligence, 0:12:43.400 --> 0:12:47.160 your mama, etcetera. Goes way, way, way way back in 0:12:47.320 --> 0:12:53.079 just like Black vernacular culture generally. But then as we 0:12:53.280 --> 0:12:57.800 found our voice musically, um, with hip hop in the 0:12:58.280 --> 0:13:03.240 eighties nineties by it sort of got retooled as a 0:13:03.320 --> 0:13:07.160 way of resolving beef, a way of showing your linguistic dexterity, 0:13:07.280 --> 0:13:09.000 the way that you would do the same over a 0:13:09.080 --> 0:13:13.000 beat in a non like competitive manner. But yeah, so 0:13:13.160 --> 0:13:17.120 it has deep, deep roots in just the way that uh, like, 0:13:17.320 --> 0:13:19.920 I guess, like black culture's love of language play and 0:13:20.000 --> 0:13:21.839 also the like kind of working with each other in 0:13:22.679 --> 0:13:26.439 playful way. Yeah, some of you out there you might 0:13:27.520 --> 0:13:30.640 have heard, you know, your experience with battling, if you haven't, 0:13:30.720 --> 0:13:33.840 like checked out some things on YouTube, you know, perhaps 0:13:33.920 --> 0:13:38.040 you know about the new renditions of battling, which involves 0:13:38.679 --> 0:13:41.960 two people reciting I mean, I guess you could say 0:13:42.000 --> 0:13:45.120 it's like almost poetry in a way, like spoken word 0:13:46.280 --> 0:13:49.520 rhyming poems that are you know, with the same sort 0:13:49.559 --> 0:13:54.280 of intent that battle rap has, but it's over no music, 0:13:54.600 --> 0:13:56.440 and you know, one person takes a turn, the other 0:13:56.520 --> 0:13:58.640 person takes a turn, and it's pre written and they 0:13:58.679 --> 0:14:02.280 memorize it before they go in. And there's an art 0:14:02.480 --> 0:14:05.599 in a whole culture to that in itself. Um, the 0:14:05.720 --> 0:14:08.920 battling that I'm used to is, I guess at this 0:14:09.000 --> 0:14:12.319 point is a traditional I guess it's considered, but it's 0:14:12.400 --> 0:14:15.199 the freestyling off of the top of the head. You know, 0:14:15.400 --> 0:14:17.880 one person goes for forty five seconds or something, the 0:14:17.960 --> 0:14:20.560 next person goes for the same and maybe you do 0:14:20.680 --> 0:14:24.800 two rounds of that crowd and some judges determines the winner. 0:14:25.000 --> 0:14:27.280 What do you what do you think about the new 0:14:28.240 --> 0:14:30.600 style of battling. I guess it's not into it. I mean, 0:14:30.720 --> 0:14:35.680 like I feel like, you know, people, people older generations 0:14:35.680 --> 0:14:39.560 are always hating on the new thing, right, so like 0:14:40.080 --> 0:14:41.960 hip hop in general isn't as good as it used 0:14:42.000 --> 0:14:43.840 to be, Like you hear old Head say, and so 0:14:43.920 --> 0:14:46.080 I'm not trying to be that person and being like, 0:14:46.160 --> 0:14:47.880 oh that's not real bad rap, that's not what it's 0:14:47.880 --> 0:14:54.800 supposed to be. But I came up. I I personally 0:14:54.880 --> 0:14:59.600 disvalue the ingenuity of improvisation over he wrote some ship 0:14:59.720 --> 0:15:02.160 down to ahead of time, and like I was looking 0:15:02.200 --> 0:15:06.640 at somebody's Facebook page for months, like checking out who 0:15:06.720 --> 0:15:09.360 their girlfriend is, where they were, you know what I mean, 0:15:09.480 --> 0:15:13.840 And like, yeah, I like for me. I'm also I 0:15:13.960 --> 0:15:17.680 like music, you know, And there's the element of like 0:15:17.840 --> 0:15:21.440 the fact that battling is like a musical was always 0:15:21.560 --> 0:15:25.440 a musical. Competition to me, is what was appealing in it, Like, 0:15:25.960 --> 0:15:28.640 no disrespect, but I'm just not like, I'm not the 0:15:28.720 --> 0:15:32.000 sort of cat who goes to like slam poetry events 0:15:32.000 --> 0:15:33.760 because it's just not my jam, you know what I mean. 0:15:33.920 --> 0:15:38.040 So the acapella battling kind of has that vibe to it, 0:15:38.200 --> 0:15:40.480 you know, if it feels to me like you you 0:15:40.640 --> 0:15:42.680 just kind of have to be dope with words, which 0:15:42.840 --> 0:15:45.320 is a whole skill and discipline in itself. But I 0:15:45.360 --> 0:15:48.520 don't think you necessarily have to be a good rapper 0:15:49.080 --> 0:15:51.440 to be good at doing that stuff, you know. And 0:15:51.680 --> 0:15:53.680 I talk about all the sort of things with so 0:15:53.920 --> 0:15:57.400 Con too. By the way, you um that it's pretty long. 0:15:57.480 --> 0:15:59.880 You think we should get it started. Yeah, it's happened 0:15:59.880 --> 0:16:04.080 to it. All right. We're gonna be back with leftist 0:16:04.200 --> 0:16:17.160 activists and battle rapper extraordinaire soul Con right after the jump. Alright, y'all, 0:16:17.280 --> 0:16:20.440 So we are about to chat with someone who I'm 0:16:20.480 --> 0:16:24.200 a huge fan of. He is a m C of 0:16:24.680 --> 0:16:29.000 the highest caliber and also an activist. It's my homie, 0:16:29.160 --> 0:16:32.640 soul Con. What's up, man. Pleasure to be here, Pleasure 0:16:32.680 --> 0:16:35.040 to be here. Thanks for having me on. I appreciate 0:16:35.080 --> 0:16:37.240 you taking the time to come talk with you. Man. So, 0:16:37.400 --> 0:16:40.200 how's how's life been treating you in this this crazy 0:16:40.280 --> 0:16:43.600 world the last year two? I think it's okay. I 0:16:43.680 --> 0:16:48.800 mean it's uh. I would say that I am encountering 0:16:50.200 --> 0:16:54.120 more as men the last year. I've encountered more hurdles 0:16:54.160 --> 0:16:59.280 than some and far fewer than others, both a lot 0:16:59.360 --> 0:17:04.840 of it having to do with just the emotional toll 0:17:05.320 --> 0:17:10.040 and physical toll of living in a in a much 0:17:10.200 --> 0:17:15.240 less connected physically connected world, especially because I live in 0:17:16.160 --> 0:17:19.040 New York City and that is a and and one 0:17:19.040 --> 0:17:22.320 of the reasons I love it is what's usually the 0:17:22.440 --> 0:17:25.439 life of the city and how many people are always 0:17:26.160 --> 0:17:30.399 here and moving and engaging with each other, and you know, 0:17:30.480 --> 0:17:34.920 at all sorts of hours, and seeing that necessarily contract 0:17:35.720 --> 0:17:40.680 and the name of public health goals. It's been tough. 0:17:41.359 --> 0:17:43.560 It's been tough. It's really tough. For the first couple 0:17:43.560 --> 0:17:46.040 of months of the pandemic, I did not leave a 0:17:46.119 --> 0:17:51.400 ten block radius basically except for a couple of times. Um, yeah, 0:17:51.520 --> 0:17:54.040 I feel you on that. I was the same exactly 0:17:54.040 --> 0:17:57.560 way so, but I'm you know, things are they're nice 0:17:57.600 --> 0:18:02.440 developments in my personal and professional life, and got new 0:18:02.560 --> 0:18:05.720 music on the way too. And that's so I'm you know, 0:18:07.400 --> 0:18:15.560 and and there's an a very energized though in reasonably embittered, 0:18:16.480 --> 0:18:21.119 uh left wing in America. That's that's fighting for what 0:18:21.280 --> 0:18:25.159 they need to. So that's also good. Well, that's I 0:18:25.280 --> 0:18:27.320 want to like delve into a lot of that with you, 0:18:27.760 --> 0:18:30.920 like heavy, but I guess let's h let's get some 0:18:31.080 --> 0:18:34.080 of the the burning questions at the top of my 0:18:34.119 --> 0:18:36.719 brain out of the way first. So when how did 0:18:36.760 --> 0:18:40.560 you get into hip hop? I got into hip hop because, um, 0:18:40.920 --> 0:18:45.479 of two things at once, basically, one of which was NTV, 0:18:46.640 --> 0:18:48.800 which I was not supposed to watch when I was 0:18:49.440 --> 0:18:51.800 a young kid. Um, not that I think that there 0:18:51.880 --> 0:18:55.439 was a I think if I were to not if 0:18:55.480 --> 0:18:59.399 I was back then, if there were reasons to not 0:18:59.600 --> 0:19:02.760 watch MTV, it wasn't for the reasons that you think 0:19:02.920 --> 0:19:04.359 it might have been, because like at the end of 0:19:04.400 --> 0:19:07.360 the day, was like them just selling people stuff. That's 0:19:07.520 --> 0:19:11.760 that's commercial television. But I think my my family daughter 0:19:11.840 --> 0:19:14.800 might be like two adults or whatever, but like it 0:19:14.960 --> 0:19:19.119 was fine. Um, but it was MTV in tandem with 0:19:19.560 --> 0:19:24.040 my mom's selection of radio stations in the morning, which 0:19:24.040 --> 0:19:27.240 she take me to school. She would always you know, 0:19:27.520 --> 0:19:36.320 listen to either like Boldies News or Rapid Fan. She 0:19:36.680 --> 0:19:39.000 is to a lesser extent than I am, but but 0:19:39.240 --> 0:19:43.720 she's you know, both as a result of what I 0:19:43.880 --> 0:19:46.639 got into and where I went with my music and 0:19:48.119 --> 0:19:52.240 who I worked with. You know, she she has sustained 0:19:52.640 --> 0:19:56.520 her you know, connection with the music as a listener. 0:19:58.119 --> 0:20:00.159 So that's how you got into it. But at what 0:20:00.359 --> 0:20:03.240 point or what prompted you to start wanting to make it? 0:20:03.760 --> 0:20:11.240 I started rapping when I was about thirteen years old. Um, badly, 0:20:11.440 --> 0:20:15.639 very badly. Yeah, but like it's there. You know, I 0:20:15.880 --> 0:20:19.120 was whatever a wonder kind is, I was the opposite 0:20:19.160 --> 0:20:22.080 of it. I got under kind or something. I was 0:20:22.119 --> 0:20:27.679 just I was dreadful and I didn't I was always 0:20:27.720 --> 0:20:30.680 trying to sound like someone else. Um. And I really 0:20:30.720 --> 0:20:34.119 have a real sense of my actual voice and my 0:20:34.240 --> 0:20:36.720 distinct voice. Then I was also a teenager and that 0:20:36.920 --> 0:20:40.480 it was this way for a long time. Um, and 0:20:41.200 --> 0:20:44.560 I you know, like ciphers in high school and middle 0:20:44.640 --> 0:20:46.760 school and or in high school that I'll be like 0:20:46.920 --> 0:20:50.640 high school and uh, you know when I went to college, 0:20:50.640 --> 0:20:53.120 you know, and I periodically go to places like Project 0:20:53.160 --> 0:20:55.639 Blown because I was in l A. You know, it 0:20:55.760 --> 0:20:59.760 was like a bi zillion year ride from my corner 0:20:59.840 --> 0:21:04.840 of the valley to there, or like go to like 0:21:05.680 --> 0:21:10.480 the other events and stuff plays like the basement there, 0:21:10.880 --> 0:21:13.560 you know, so it's there. I I had a a 0:21:15.040 --> 0:21:21.600 somewhat if not a tenuous, sort of like corporeal connection 0:21:21.680 --> 0:21:23.280 to hip hop community in l A. It just was, 0:21:23.440 --> 0:21:28.600 you know, because of geography, Um it was. It was 0:21:28.720 --> 0:21:32.080 very limited. Um and I didn't drive at all in 0:21:32.200 --> 0:21:35.920 Los Angeles, which is that will make it hard to 0:21:35.960 --> 0:21:38.399 get around. Yeah. I rely on the kindness of friends 0:21:38.760 --> 0:21:41.240 and you know, so if I wanted to go anywhere 0:21:41.640 --> 0:21:43.840 to see anything and would have to be either because 0:21:44.080 --> 0:21:48.040 you know, my mom felt find it drive me there. 0:21:48.119 --> 0:21:51.320 She always was supportive of just you know, time she 0:21:51.400 --> 0:21:54.000 was basically by in my teens she was a single 0:21:54.080 --> 0:21:59.520 mother and me she was a library clerk, and she 0:22:00.240 --> 0:22:04.600 I mean, honestly, given the quality of the father ing 0:22:04.720 --> 0:22:07.040 in my household, she was kind of a single parent 0:22:07.119 --> 0:22:12.879 the whole time in most regards. Uh so yeah. So 0:22:13.040 --> 0:22:15.439 but like I you know, and when I got to college, 0:22:15.600 --> 0:22:20.840 I uh you know, had a informed a rap groom, 0:22:20.880 --> 0:22:25.160 me and a couple of friends and as I approached 0:22:25.280 --> 0:22:27.960 the end of college. One of my friends, you know, 0:22:28.119 --> 0:22:29.440 talking to me about what we were going to do, 0:22:29.920 --> 0:22:31.760 you know, what everyone's plans were. And one of the 0:22:33.000 --> 0:22:34.880 one of the kids, it was younger by a couple 0:22:34.880 --> 0:22:38.240 of years in me. Um, you know, I told him, I, oh, 0:22:38.280 --> 0:22:41.119 you know, I think probably gonna like working like a 0:22:41.200 --> 0:22:45.040 congress person's office or something. You know, that was going 0:22:45.080 --> 0:22:47.000 to be the trajectory and then we'll see what goes 0:22:47.560 --> 0:22:53.159 where we go from there. And they said, well, that 0:22:53.760 --> 0:22:57.479 type of job will be around for a little bit 0:22:57.520 --> 0:23:00.359 at least there are rats to get it into it. 0:23:00.440 --> 0:23:06.320 It was very like insightful, uh, you know, take from 0:23:06.400 --> 0:23:10.680 a twenty year old and uh they said, you know, 0:23:11.200 --> 0:23:15.040 rapping might not be um and back then, you know, 0:23:15.160 --> 0:23:20.720 these are the early aughts, the age uh stigma was 0:23:21.280 --> 0:23:26.679 just wildly in effect still, you mean the age stigma 0:23:26.720 --> 0:23:28.760 in terms of like, you know, I think I can't 0:23:28.760 --> 0:23:30.920 be a thirty year old like and that's now we 0:23:31.160 --> 0:23:34.719 know one kids a damn about that, which is is beautiful. Um. 0:23:36.240 --> 0:23:38.359 I think that actually there are there are factors behind that. 0:23:39.080 --> 0:23:44.159 It was really bad back every I mean everybody was 0:23:44.280 --> 0:23:47.560 setting that deadline on themselves like cats that were that 0:23:47.640 --> 0:23:50.360 are dope. We're like, yeah, man, I just got two 0:23:50.440 --> 0:23:53.000 more years in the game. And it's mad funny when 0:23:53.040 --> 0:23:55.960 you think that, like some of the motherfucker's just dropped, 0:23:56.000 --> 0:23:59.560 like an album like Yesterday, and like and and Beer's 0:24:00.680 --> 0:24:03.000 you know, two chains blew up finally at the age 0:24:03.000 --> 0:24:06.480 of thirty six, like what I mean, obviously play a circle, 0:24:06.560 --> 0:24:12.800 but like the the explosions like thirty six years old, Yeah, 0:24:12.880 --> 0:24:16.800 they're they're there are adults ca yeah who is and 0:24:16.920 --> 0:24:20.960 also shot out to god dear man who is obviously 0:24:21.040 --> 0:24:27.879 doing uh he's done great work and professionally as a 0:24:28.000 --> 0:24:32.000 musician outside of music too. Um, but yeah, the longevity 0:24:32.080 --> 0:24:33.320 is that, you know, I think hip hop grew up. 0:24:33.320 --> 0:24:35.800 I think a lot because of the fans grew up 0:24:36.280 --> 0:24:39.120 two and they recognize and also a lot of even 0:24:39.200 --> 0:24:46.560 the I feel like at a certain point, um, all 0:24:46.680 --> 0:24:50.239 of the because the music industry fell apart and all 0:24:50.320 --> 0:24:52.760 the people who used to be just like chasing the 0:24:52.840 --> 0:24:55.879 next new big thing couldn't dictate the terms of everything 0:24:55.960 --> 0:25:00.880 that will blow up. Um, other voices and other people's 0:25:00.960 --> 0:25:07.280 tastes were able to uh, you know, people who value talent, 0:25:07.400 --> 0:25:10.920 regardless of the age, were able to say like, no, this, 0:25:11.200 --> 0:25:13.240 this is still worth it if you don't have to, 0:25:13.440 --> 0:25:15.440 you know, to try to chase what the kids are into. 0:25:15.800 --> 0:25:18.440 We're not kids, get over it, like exactly. It's like 0:25:20.320 --> 0:25:24.920 it's not this, yeah, and it's probably best reserved for kids. 0:25:25.720 --> 0:25:28.840 And that's like like there there can be I don't know. 0:25:28.960 --> 0:25:32.120 It's just like I don't know why anyone, if those 0:25:32.160 --> 0:25:33.560 people even still out there, but I don't know why 0:25:33.560 --> 0:25:38.440 anyone has that sort of view that like hip hop 0:25:38.600 --> 0:25:41.200 has to be like this homogeneous thing. It's like, no, 0:25:41.480 --> 0:25:46.040 like there should be adult oriented rap music and you know, 0:25:46.200 --> 0:25:48.800 young adult there should be like Harry Potter version young 0:25:48.840 --> 0:25:53.159 adult novel wrapped in you know, like wild clubs that 0:25:53.440 --> 0:25:54.680 you know, there should be room for all of that. 0:25:54.720 --> 0:25:58.680 I think I think people sometimes almost like do a 0:25:58.760 --> 0:26:04.360 straw man of trying to say that, oh uh, why 0:26:04.600 --> 0:26:07.040 why are you guys or why heads who are like, 0:26:07.359 --> 0:26:09.159 you know, more along the lines of like that that 0:26:09.400 --> 0:26:13.560 sort of quote unquote true school, old school, you know, 0:26:14.320 --> 0:26:20.240 vein of things. It's not necessarily that the diversity in 0:26:20.440 --> 0:26:23.040 styles and stuff is an issue. It's just merely like 0:26:23.280 --> 0:26:26.080 it's more of a media criticism in terms of like 0:26:26.200 --> 0:26:29.240 the balance and what gets exposure and what doesn't you know, absolutely, 0:26:29.920 --> 0:26:32.880 and it's funny I was thinking that, Well we talked 0:26:32.920 --> 0:26:35.160 more about later, but like this is I did think 0:26:35.160 --> 0:26:38.639 a lot about that, about who sets the parameters for 0:26:38.760 --> 0:26:46.359 who becomes famous, and just thinking about how even because 0:26:46.400 --> 0:26:48.000 the other day, like I tweeted like it was really 0:26:48.200 --> 0:26:52.320 you know, no one said as rapid or widely celebrated 0:26:52.520 --> 0:26:58.360 of of an ascendance as DMX did. And it's crazy 0:26:58.440 --> 0:27:02.280 to think that even act then a very like major 0:27:02.440 --> 0:27:09.680 label driven thing like his his like prime era. UM, 0:27:11.320 --> 0:27:17.320 it felt almost like more authentic then then a lot 0:27:17.359 --> 0:27:19.399 of stuff does now because it was out in the 0:27:19.520 --> 0:27:22.240 open and they were like, yes, Death Jam Records wants 0:27:22.280 --> 0:27:26.640 you to listen to d m X versus. Now it's like, uh, 0:27:26.880 --> 0:27:32.080 an independent team that secretly was programmed by you know, 0:27:32.359 --> 0:27:36.280 a PR agency UM and a brand partnership with you know, 0:27:37.000 --> 0:27:42.880 of average company is organically suggesting that you get into 0:27:42.960 --> 0:27:48.080 this cool new artist that totally isn't a product of 0:27:48.480 --> 0:27:51.480 engineering that we did. Like that's it's very you know 0:27:51.600 --> 0:27:55.120 that and very there's a there's a plastic nous ship. 0:27:55.440 --> 0:27:58.320 I mean, you know, I had not to go to 0:27:58.480 --> 0:28:00.520 wild all over the place. But I find it is 0:28:00.600 --> 0:28:05.440 in like a lot of entertainment video mediums where it's 0:28:05.480 --> 0:28:10.280 just like there's this aura of like and it almost 0:28:10.320 --> 0:28:12.320 feels like it's the eighties, Like it feels like a 0:28:13.040 --> 0:28:15.560 like a parody of like somebody making fun of how 0:28:15.640 --> 0:28:17.760 the eighties were, where it's like everything is just really 0:28:17.880 --> 0:28:22.880 like soulless and the the the there is no pretense 0:28:23.000 --> 0:28:28.400 that capital is the biggest motivating factor. Everything exists absolutely, 0:28:28.560 --> 0:28:32.399 and and and and then there's they still try to 0:28:32.480 --> 0:28:35.359 put on the veneer of relatability, like you know, the 0:28:35.520 --> 0:28:40.000 classic example being brands tweeting brand the tweets is the 0:28:40.360 --> 0:28:46.040 is the real soul of you should if you watch 0:28:46.200 --> 0:28:49.160 like a making of on like a DVD that was 0:28:49.280 --> 0:28:53.040 made in like two thousand seven, and then you watch 0:28:53.120 --> 0:28:55.360 the making of for a movie that was made like 0:28:56.000 --> 0:28:59.440 two years ago, just look at the difference in what 0:28:59.560 --> 0:29:01.720 their person that in you is, like the behind the 0:29:01.760 --> 0:29:03.840 scenes look. It's like like one of them is clearly 0:29:04.000 --> 0:29:10.120 like a reality show fake shit. Hell yeah, really weird. 0:29:10.200 --> 0:29:12.120 That's a good challenge. I'm gonna do that. I'm gonna 0:29:12.640 --> 0:29:15.920 pick a good pick a real good one and just yeah, 0:29:16.040 --> 0:29:18.360 no now I'm hype for that. Okay, so I'm sorry 0:29:18.440 --> 0:29:20.640 not to And so what was the name of your 0:29:20.720 --> 0:29:24.480 rap group? Oh? Back then it was called VPM. Was 0:29:24.880 --> 0:29:29.440 what did that stand for? Oh my god? It was 0:29:29.880 --> 0:29:35.080 beat People's Movements? Like, yeah, I mean it's not the word, 0:29:35.680 --> 0:29:38.080 but it sounds. I mean, someone could also have mistaken 0:29:38.120 --> 0:29:42.640 it for us, saying like being like a paramilitary or something, 0:29:42.760 --> 0:29:46.440 or an attack squad um, you know, like the but 0:29:46.560 --> 0:29:51.000 but we yeah, it was like beats it beats you know, Uh, 0:29:51.960 --> 0:29:54.280 it was, and I think it was. It was sort 0:29:54.280 --> 0:29:57.080 of one of those reverse engineered things where we thought 0:29:57.160 --> 0:30:00.160 like it would be cool to call ourselves VPM. Hey 0:30:00.200 --> 0:30:02.600 what does BPM stand for? And for? We've got coming 0:30:02.680 --> 0:30:05.880 up with the reading afterwards? Absolutely, and that's that's fine, 0:30:06.480 --> 0:30:10.040 you know. By some of my first tattoos kind of 0:30:10.120 --> 0:30:13.200 have that sort of a good Yeah. I mean it's 0:30:13.280 --> 0:30:16.440 it's it's it's sort of like and it's sort of 0:30:16.520 --> 0:30:20.080 like that. That's also true that the spirit of songwriting 0:30:20.120 --> 0:30:25.040 in some cases where you like the way some words rhyme, 0:30:25.400 --> 0:30:27.200 and then you're like, what do I have to say 0:30:27.320 --> 0:30:29.720 that will make these words make sense? Yeah, that's how 0:30:29.800 --> 0:30:31.600 good it happens. All the time. I think we don't 0:30:31.600 --> 0:30:34.240 want to do it too often because it feels like 0:30:35.120 --> 0:30:38.040 you can tell. You can tell when somebody is doing that, 0:30:38.280 --> 0:30:40.720 oh yeah, oh yeah, it's usually glaring. If they're not 0:30:40.920 --> 0:30:44.360 like a really good rapper, then cover it up. Um. 0:30:45.320 --> 0:30:49.720 That's sometimes it's the worst, just sitting with a couplet 0:30:50.120 --> 0:30:54.320 or like a rhyme scheme or like I could if 0:30:54.400 --> 0:30:59.120 I make this happen, I've I've triumph, I've I've conquered 0:30:59.240 --> 0:31:03.640 rap sit there for twenty minutes, You're like, Oh, let's 0:31:03.680 --> 0:31:06.600 think of something else. Let's let's try something else. Otherwise 0:31:06.640 --> 0:31:09.920 I'll hate my life, myself and this art form that 0:31:10.000 --> 0:31:16.240 I'm trying to be still a tribute to himself. You know, 0:31:16.360 --> 0:31:19.040 the way that I heard of you was through the 0:31:19.120 --> 0:31:22.280 battle scene, and this is like I wanna if I'm 0:31:22.320 --> 0:31:25.280 going back to win. Like the first video that I 0:31:25.400 --> 0:31:27.160 can recall seeing if you, I mean it must have 0:31:27.240 --> 0:31:31.000 been like two thousand nine was when my first one came. 0:31:32.440 --> 0:31:37.280 It was around two thousan is I think I saw 0:31:37.400 --> 0:31:40.360 like grind time stuff. You see, It's like I have 0:31:41.080 --> 0:31:47.680 I have a a nuanced relationship with that style of 0:31:47.760 --> 0:31:50.120 battling because the scene that I came up in was 0:31:50.240 --> 0:31:52.840 the freestyle scene, absolutely, and there's still like run there 0:31:52.920 --> 0:31:55.920 was an overlap there. Yeah, and then that at that 0:31:56.040 --> 0:31:59.240 time period, there was like I like I had missed 0:31:59.240 --> 0:32:02.120 out because my father worked for the State Department, so 0:32:02.160 --> 0:32:05.880 I grew up overseasons. So by the time I had come, 0:32:06.640 --> 0:32:11.160 you know here to go to college, sucking, you know, 0:32:11.200 --> 0:32:14.000 scribble Jam and stuff like that was going on, and 0:32:14.080 --> 0:32:16.840 I wasn't like established enough to get into that scene. 0:32:17.440 --> 0:32:19.640 So when that started dying out is when the grindtime 0:32:19.720 --> 0:32:23.920 stuff started kind of rising. And did you do both? 0:32:25.320 --> 0:32:28.360 I actually did because there was no New York I 0:32:28.400 --> 0:32:30.840 think I either missed or there wasn't a New York 0:32:30.920 --> 0:32:35.960 City Scribble Jam qualifier in two thousand seven. And so 0:32:36.160 --> 0:32:42.080 I went to Traverse City, Michigan by myself, which is 0:32:42.120 --> 0:32:45.720 a weird thing to do, and I did the scribble 0:32:45.800 --> 0:32:49.640 prelimbs there and I was in the semifinal. I was 0:32:49.680 --> 0:32:53.840 in the finals of the Scribble Prelimbs for Michigan, which 0:32:53.880 --> 0:32:55.719 is hilayer for Traverse City. I don't know if there 0:32:55.760 --> 0:32:58.880 was a Detroit one, which is wild to think about. 0:32:59.760 --> 0:33:02.280 I'm I'm I'm messing up because so we don't be 0:33:02.440 --> 0:33:09.600 too insider. Yeah. So Scribble Jam was a huge hip 0:33:09.600 --> 0:33:12.240 hop festival in the you want to say, late nineties 0:33:12.280 --> 0:33:16.320 early three thousands, and he started in Ivink nineties six. 0:33:16.720 --> 0:33:20.560 I think, okay, so yeah, and I mean it's it 0:33:20.680 --> 0:33:24.360 has a huge legacy. For example, the most famous one 0:33:24.440 --> 0:33:28.400 is eminem Uh came in second place a scribble Jam, 0:33:28.640 --> 0:33:30.920 and I guess he handed off his debo or at 0:33:30.960 --> 0:33:32.840 least the legend goes or some something like that. But 0:33:32.880 --> 0:33:36.160 Scribbles it's it's a really Olympics is where he did, 0:33:36.480 --> 0:33:40.560 I think, really really blow up um and and Scribble 0:33:40.640 --> 0:33:44.680 Jam though, was a big, big moment with him versus Juice. Uh, 0:33:45.320 --> 0:33:47.440 did you did you freeze? Did you do freestyle battle? 0:33:47.480 --> 0:33:50.240 And so obviously if you were in so it was 0:33:50.280 --> 0:33:53.120 freestyling on grind Time for the first couple of battles 0:33:53.400 --> 0:33:56.600 with maybe some like premeditated stuff. I didn't write anything 0:33:56.680 --> 0:34:01.000 down because I thought, oh, that's cheating, and every still freestyling, 0:34:01.040 --> 0:34:03.120 except for maybe the people who did raps that were 0:34:03.200 --> 0:34:07.360 like more general and weren't personal. Um And when I 0:34:07.400 --> 0:34:10.760 found out that everyone was writing after my first battle 0:34:10.800 --> 0:34:15.760 that I lost in Grindtime, I was like, oh, whoops, Okay, 0:34:15.920 --> 0:34:18.279 I'm not gonna lose another one. We're done with that. 0:34:18.520 --> 0:34:25.480 We're described to the listeners. Right, there's there's two different 0:34:26.760 --> 0:34:30.520 battle I guess is would would the word be scenes 0:34:30.680 --> 0:34:38.759 or styles? It's both because they there's regional There was 0:34:38.760 --> 0:34:45.000 definitely a regional difference in in regional emphasis on spontaneous 0:34:45.160 --> 0:34:48.879 freestyling in the West Coast more so I'm not saying 0:34:48.880 --> 0:34:51.120 it wasn't a president at all, and also in like 0:34:51.480 --> 0:34:56.120 the Midwest, um, whereas in New York it would be 0:34:56.200 --> 0:35:01.640 more about like honestly having a zero personally living material, 0:35:01.760 --> 0:35:04.440 but like relying largely of stuff. It's like because there 0:35:04.480 --> 0:35:09.320 are the DVD battle scene, it was really big in 0:35:09.400 --> 0:35:12.760 New York in the East Coast. But describe the difference 0:35:12.920 --> 0:35:21.360 the differences, the differences like between freestyling on beat, so 0:35:21.640 --> 0:35:26.279 spontaneous wraps about and against your opponent over a beat 0:35:26.320 --> 0:35:29.120 that you both get to wrap over taking turns um 0:35:29.239 --> 0:35:33.080 usually like thirty seconds to a minute per round um 0:35:34.480 --> 0:35:40.160 and the other style at the time, which is prevailed 0:35:40.200 --> 0:35:43.720 in a lot of ways like these basically people wrapping 0:35:43.840 --> 0:35:49.560 acapella for several minutes at a time, basically doing verses 0:35:49.800 --> 0:35:52.840 like they could be like, uh, there there was a 0:35:52.960 --> 0:35:55.439 rap battle, but like you could view for the moment. 0:35:55.480 --> 0:35:57.120 For a lot of cases, you could have used their 0:35:57.280 --> 0:36:00.720 verses against one person, interchange on a song, or against 0:36:00.760 --> 0:36:04.640 anybody else they face. Um, And it's just sort of 0:36:04.680 --> 0:36:08.000 a wrap contest, like how well someone can wrap versus 0:36:08.080 --> 0:36:11.600 how well versus the freestyle one, which is a lot 0:36:11.680 --> 0:36:14.240 more about like how well can you dis your opponent 0:36:15.920 --> 0:36:20.000 directly in a relevant way to them. So I've I've 0:36:20.040 --> 0:36:23.360 always had this analogy that I've made with it that 0:36:23.520 --> 0:36:27.400 I'm sure somebody who is as accomplished as you are 0:36:27.640 --> 0:36:32.520 in the written battle scene is, but I want to 0:36:32.520 --> 0:36:34.160 I want to share it with you anyway, just to 0:36:34.400 --> 0:36:36.480 see what you think of it, Right, So I always 0:36:36.600 --> 0:36:39.680 kind of looked at it as freestyle battling and the 0:36:40.080 --> 0:36:45.440 pre written battling. It's like the difference between UFC and 0:36:45.719 --> 0:36:49.319 w W E. Yes, when you watch a UFC match, 0:36:49.520 --> 0:36:52.600 you honestly can see anything. It might be the greatest 0:36:52.640 --> 0:36:55.279 fight you've ever seen, or somebody might get knocked out 0:36:55.320 --> 0:36:58.160 in the first five seconds, or like anything can happen, 0:36:58.200 --> 0:37:02.399 Like somebody might be nervous and mess out and get 0:37:02.520 --> 0:37:06.319 knocked out and whereas with like a w W E match, 0:37:06.640 --> 0:37:09.560 it's like it's all it's all choreographs so that you 0:37:09.920 --> 0:37:13.239 the watcher are entertained. Note like everyone's gonna get to 0:37:13.280 --> 0:37:15.480 do their moves. You're gonna you know, you're gonna get 0:37:15.520 --> 0:37:18.480 to see everybody like perform and show out, and then 0:37:19.120 --> 0:37:22.120 you know the like the winner is determined later. Absolutely, 0:37:22.120 --> 0:37:25.120 And I think people like, yeah, I think wrestling fans 0:37:25.280 --> 0:37:30.000 care less about like w W fans care less about 0:37:30.760 --> 0:37:34.600 outcomes than performance. They care less like who won the 0:37:34.680 --> 0:37:40.040 match versus who who did the coolest ship stuff? That's it, 0:37:40.400 --> 0:37:45.680 that's what matters. And I feel like that, Yeah, it's 0:37:45.719 --> 0:37:49.400 a good analogy obviously, Like there there are technically winners 0:37:49.840 --> 0:37:53.600 and losers, and times they'll judge battles in written battles. 0:37:53.640 --> 0:37:59.320 They used to judge them more. Um, But you know, 0:37:59.640 --> 0:38:04.719 I I got over the whole non judge battle hang 0:38:04.840 --> 0:38:07.320 up that I used to have once I did a 0:38:07.440 --> 0:38:11.640 non judge battle, like, oh, no one cares, So did 0:38:11.719 --> 0:38:13.960 you did you? Like? Stop? I mean I know you 0:38:14.280 --> 0:38:17.160 you like I guess you didn't do battles for a 0:38:17.200 --> 0:38:19.600 long time and then you came back and did a battle. 0:38:19.680 --> 0:38:22.880 I did a battle not to like a year or 0:38:22.880 --> 0:38:26.200 two ago. Yeah, And it wasn't a very auspicious return 0:38:26.320 --> 0:38:29.040 because I think I just I was doing too much 0:38:29.200 --> 0:38:34.280 other stuff and like I was coming off of a divorce, 0:38:34.719 --> 0:38:41.520 a difficult work year, and like transitioning to different medications, 0:38:41.760 --> 0:38:44.120 like it was a it was a rough time, and 0:38:44.880 --> 0:38:50.440 like it was like in a super healthy relationship. Um 0:38:51.600 --> 0:38:55.360 so I ate ship as far as I'm concerned in 0:38:55.480 --> 0:38:59.520 that return battle against disaster, and I have always owned 0:38:59.560 --> 0:39:02.319 that there were some glimmers and flickers. I think they 0:39:02.320 --> 0:39:06.520 would be better. But like I flew directly from like 0:39:06.640 --> 0:39:10.560 a work evan to go to Oakland. I was like 0:39:10.800 --> 0:39:13.840 nauseous the whole time because I had I was like 0:39:14.320 --> 0:39:20.759 transitioning back from trinteleics to will beutran Um, and I 0:39:21.000 --> 0:39:23.360 just was not ready, you know. And I was just 0:39:24.000 --> 0:39:27.600 misallocating my time, both in terms of the prep that 0:39:27.680 --> 0:39:32.560 I was doing and just the time between deciding how 0:39:32.680 --> 0:39:35.160 much time I was been preparing versus not preparing, you know. 0:39:35.239 --> 0:39:39.440 And I'd been off on Chew. I thought that I 0:39:39.600 --> 0:39:41.960 was writing something that would fill up. I think if 0:39:41.960 --> 0:39:44.520 I wrapped it at normal speed, my my return battle 0:39:44.640 --> 0:39:49.879 versus would have built like maybe twenty minutes instead of like, um, 0:39:50.120 --> 0:39:52.560 but I was like sort of mentally stuck trying to 0:39:52.640 --> 0:39:59.320 remember all my stuff basically doing like like something that 0:39:59.480 --> 0:40:01.880 was just like a speech at a certain point, and 0:40:02.560 --> 0:40:06.240 I hated it as it was happening. Um and killed 0:40:06.320 --> 0:40:08.960 me to like be in the moment and feel that. 0:40:09.080 --> 0:40:11.200 Like I it was fun and it did did really well, 0:40:11.239 --> 0:40:17.880 except for the material that was unnecessarily problematic because he 0:40:17.960 --> 0:40:22.440 would have won without it easily. Um So, I mean, 0:40:22.600 --> 0:40:25.040 do you think you're gonna take another shot? There are 0:40:25.120 --> 0:40:29.239 a couple of impediments to that, one of which is that, 0:40:30.080 --> 0:40:36.800 I it's just so much time and attention and energy. 0:40:37.960 --> 0:40:40.800 Um Like, I don't. I don't even know exactly what 0:40:40.960 --> 0:40:46.279 the full story is behind why you left. Actually, I 0:40:46.400 --> 0:40:49.560 was like there was a stigma that and there isn't now, 0:40:49.680 --> 0:40:53.040 I don't think really like you can if a new 0:40:53.080 --> 0:40:56.120 battle rapper can drop music, and granted, it'll be tougher 0:40:57.920 --> 0:41:00.680 to get it out there without having some of the 0:41:02.239 --> 0:41:08.279 music only platforms pushing you, um like, if you're not 0:41:09.080 --> 0:41:12.600 on any blog, serves playlists or whatever, like, it will 0:41:12.640 --> 0:41:14.759 be tough. You can't just do it via battle rap 0:41:14.840 --> 0:41:20.000 unless just the algorithm blesses you. Yeah, or we have 0:41:20.120 --> 0:41:26.200 like a publicist working with But then in two thousand 0:41:26.200 --> 0:41:28.799 and ten, and the less I battled and the more 0:41:28.800 --> 0:41:32.879 I distanced myself from it, the more music opportunities came 0:41:32.920 --> 0:41:35.800 my way like a switch flipped. And it was not 0:41:36.040 --> 0:41:38.600 fair like that, doesn't I think folks Scott took that 0:41:38.760 --> 0:41:41.600 personally battle fans and battlers and that it was too 0:41:41.680 --> 0:41:43.120 good for It's like, no, I just I had a 0:41:43.160 --> 0:41:48.200 different priority. I went for that and it wasn't anyone's 0:41:48.280 --> 0:41:52.520 fault that. That's how the market and the climate was then. Um. 0:41:52.760 --> 0:41:57.080 And it's a lot more rewarding to do both like 0:41:57.280 --> 0:42:01.440 monetarily and and terms of energy that you put into it. 0:42:01.560 --> 0:42:04.440 It's a lot more rewarding to make a song that 0:42:04.480 --> 0:42:06.759 you can perform over and over and over again, or 0:42:06.840 --> 0:42:08.480 have people play over and over and over again in 0:42:08.520 --> 0:42:12.239 a variety of settings, um, than it is to do 0:42:12.360 --> 0:42:19.239 a battle. That's so much more writing that has one use. Yeah, 0:42:19.440 --> 0:42:22.520 and I don't I could, you know. So it's a 0:42:22.560 --> 0:42:24.400 lot of time, there's a lot of energy to put 0:42:24.480 --> 0:42:26.520 into it, and I would I could do it. I 0:42:26.560 --> 0:42:28.200 think I could do it. I could make up for 0:42:28.280 --> 0:42:31.080 my performance the first time around. The Other issue is that, 0:42:31.239 --> 0:42:34.120 like I think a lot of battle rap hers and 0:42:34.360 --> 0:42:37.600 fans I think are mad at me because of like 0:42:37.880 --> 0:42:44.239 a Twitter controversy like a year ago. Um elaborate. Yeah, 0:42:44.280 --> 0:42:46.120 you know, because I think it's important to explore because 0:42:46.120 --> 0:42:49.280 there's a lot of misconceptions about it and like opportunistic 0:42:50.560 --> 0:42:55.200 people who just don't like me or standing for anything 0:42:55.320 --> 0:42:59.280 and actually living up to it. Um who likes snats 0:42:59.480 --> 0:43:01.640 jumped upon us, like a lot of rap floggers and 0:43:01.719 --> 0:43:04.800 stuff like that, a rap floggers and stuff. Is this 0:43:04.960 --> 0:43:08.080 something that would that that would be better prefaced by 0:43:08.160 --> 0:43:11.040 us talking about some of your activism work. No, I 0:43:11.120 --> 0:43:13.000 think it's fun. I mean, like just so people know, 0:43:13.239 --> 0:43:16.080 like I just I've always been a leftist, but I 0:43:16.239 --> 0:43:20.800 haven't always embodied those principles. And when it came to 0:43:21.320 --> 0:43:25.000 my art, both battling in music, I'd have content that 0:43:25.200 --> 0:43:30.960 was you know, misogynistic, homophobic, like racially insensitive, you know, 0:43:31.719 --> 0:43:33.520 basically all stuff that like on a level of like 0:43:33.600 --> 0:43:38.759 a stand up comedy thought was okay as a thing. Yeah, 0:43:38.960 --> 0:43:41.560 And I was like buying into that because I thought 0:43:41.680 --> 0:43:45.520 it's just a joke or it's just a line and 0:43:46.719 --> 0:43:50.160 you know, I I wrapped with that, and I've spent 0:43:50.719 --> 0:43:53.880 a decade reckoning with that and still reckon with it 0:43:54.040 --> 0:43:58.200 publicly and privately and with anyone I meet who discovers 0:43:58.280 --> 0:44:01.600 that I have wrapped in any of these settings. And 0:44:01.760 --> 0:44:03.000 I could be doing that for rest of my life. 0:44:03.040 --> 0:44:05.440 And that's the onus that one has when they do 0:44:05.680 --> 0:44:13.080 something that has consequences like that, regardless of my intentions. 0:44:13.920 --> 0:44:21.960 And you know that being said, there was back when 0:44:22.320 --> 0:44:24.640 and then you know, I'll say this, I was. I 0:44:24.840 --> 0:44:28.279 recognized where I aired on this totally, but there are 0:44:28.280 --> 0:44:30.799 places where I did not, where I was miscast by 0:44:31.120 --> 0:44:34.919 a lot of opportunistic folks. UM. It's like right after 0:44:35.880 --> 0:44:40.719 UH Kobe Bryant passed away UH in that tragic helicopter 0:44:40.840 --> 0:44:45.120 accident and his daughter and I saw so a lot 0:44:45.200 --> 0:44:46.200 of there are a lot of There are a lot 0:44:46.239 --> 0:44:49.960 of folks, dear to me, who were UH survivors of 0:44:50.040 --> 0:44:56.719 sexual assault. And at the time there was there were 0:44:56.760 --> 0:45:01.520 folks who wanted to even talk about that. To mention 0:45:02.160 --> 0:45:07.280 of Kobe Bryant's life, UM, not necessarily, not not since 0:45:07.760 --> 0:45:11.279 like perpetually condemn him, but to like be mindful of 0:45:12.200 --> 0:45:15.120 how it might impact other people who are survivors of 0:45:15.320 --> 0:45:21.160 sexual assault, and not to like relitigate it even but 0:45:21.320 --> 0:45:25.799 just to like not erase it. Yeah, and especially given 0:45:25.840 --> 0:45:30.080 the fact that he himself made efforts to reckon with 0:45:30.239 --> 0:45:34.000 this and and which is rare, which is very rare 0:45:34.120 --> 0:45:39.960 for someone of his prominence. Um. And I said, I 0:45:40.040 --> 0:45:44.600 initially tweeted something the effect of, like, you know, people 0:45:44.640 --> 0:45:49.960 are saying it's it's it's offensive to mention sexual assault, 0:45:50.080 --> 0:45:54.320 So how offensive is sexual assault itself? You know, like 0:45:54.400 --> 0:45:56.520 people were getting more offended about the mention of the 0:45:56.640 --> 0:46:01.160 thing than the thing itself being overlooked or being and 0:46:01.320 --> 0:46:04.280 like so like a couple of places where I sucked 0:46:04.320 --> 0:46:08.840 up is like timing wise, Uh, you know, I didn't 0:46:08.840 --> 0:46:11.520 like the day after it happened. And I think I 0:46:11.640 --> 0:46:18.240 was just very reactive and raw and feeling sad seeing 0:46:18.440 --> 0:46:27.839 my friends of different gender racial backgrounds who had experienced 0:46:28.160 --> 0:46:38.239 sexual assault. UM, feeling like diminished um. And there are 0:46:38.320 --> 0:46:43.000 ways to not diminish them or that issue while still 0:46:43.080 --> 0:46:51.880 recognizing the many uh you know, accomplishments and virtues and 0:46:52.080 --> 0:46:57.080 and and Kobe Bryant morning him and I sort of 0:46:57.239 --> 0:47:01.040 like got people's responses to me aside from just like 0:47:01.080 --> 0:47:03.080 being a set of timing where also people trying to say, 0:47:03.160 --> 0:47:06.719 like all this stuff never happened. You're like trying to 0:47:07.480 --> 0:47:11.040 you know that they're like comparing what I was saying 0:47:11.280 --> 0:47:15.040 to like him until and I was like, yo, I 0:47:15.239 --> 0:47:18.279 don't I first like and people like, oh, you're trying 0:47:18.320 --> 0:47:21.880 to be like you know he was you know, found 0:47:22.160 --> 0:47:24.680 not guilty in courts, like the court system doesn't do anything. 0:47:24.760 --> 0:47:26.320 It's like, I don't believe in the court system. Like 0:47:26.360 --> 0:47:28.279 I think people got a twisted they thought, like I thought, 0:47:28.640 --> 0:47:31.680 we're saying the dude should have gone to jail, and 0:47:31.800 --> 0:47:35.360 I don't believe in jail. I don't believe in police. 0:47:35.960 --> 0:47:40.640 I don't believe in prisons. I don't think most they're 0:47:40.840 --> 0:47:45.280 held a lot of survivors of sexual assault don't believe 0:47:45.360 --> 0:47:47.800 in that stuff or don't think that they'll find healing 0:47:47.840 --> 0:47:49.920 and that stuff, largely because they don't even when it's 0:47:49.920 --> 0:47:54.480 actually addressed by the by these systems. Um So, like 0:47:54.640 --> 0:47:56.480 I was just I was talking about sort of like 0:47:57.680 --> 0:48:00.720 my whole comment an issue is just about like public 0:48:01.920 --> 0:48:04.680 record and discourse and and and sort of talking about 0:48:04.719 --> 0:48:08.279 an issue, and it got buried in like issues of 0:48:08.400 --> 0:48:11.880 like insensitivity about the timing of the tweet, and then 0:48:11.960 --> 0:48:17.600 like my defensiveness against people. Uh and and you know, 0:48:18.840 --> 0:48:21.920 I think, you know, there are a lot of battle 0:48:22.000 --> 0:48:26.560 rap folks who were like like fans, battle rap fans 0:48:26.760 --> 0:48:29.520 will probably never listen to my music or anything and 0:48:29.600 --> 0:48:33.319 probably never read anything. They probably you know, probably only 0:48:33.360 --> 0:48:36.479 started paying attention to me again because of my coming 0:48:36.520 --> 0:48:41.920 back to battling. We're like just not in good faith 0:48:42.600 --> 0:48:46.480 dealing with what I said or my attempt to address 0:48:46.600 --> 0:48:48.720 it at just trying to make it the worst possible. 0:48:49.719 --> 0:48:52.200 So there's a YouTube video someone saying like soul concept 0:48:52.320 --> 0:48:54.920 like some battle rap blogger and wrap the blog by 0:48:54.960 --> 0:48:57.399 other stuff too, like this is like soul con says 0:48:57.440 --> 0:49:00.520 that morning Kobe is disrespectful to sexual salt picked. It 0:49:00.600 --> 0:49:03.120 was like I literally never said but that was like 0:49:03.200 --> 0:49:05.399 the tent, Like I literally there's a tweet that says 0:49:05.640 --> 0:49:08.520 I didn't say that you shouldn't mourn this man. I 0:49:08.680 --> 0:49:11.000 did not say, Like there's nowhere I said that said 0:49:11.040 --> 0:49:14.279 that whatsoever. Um hell, they were like even some like 0:49:15.520 --> 0:49:18.440 sort of legitimate journalists who I know who were like 0:49:18.760 --> 0:49:22.680 trying to like milk this for like clicks and likes 0:49:23.520 --> 0:49:27.200 and it's it's embarrassing and you know what it's And 0:49:27.320 --> 0:49:29.000 the funny thing at the end of the day is 0:49:29.560 --> 0:49:32.399 people like to pick and choose what they're offended by 0:49:32.840 --> 0:49:36.600 or what they find to be outrageous. Um, you know, 0:49:36.760 --> 0:49:42.040 because I never you know, and then finding ironically I 0:49:42.120 --> 0:49:45.400 had a line in the battle about like when I 0:49:45.520 --> 0:49:49.440 diss do Fox, I basically said that he would like that. 0:49:49.760 --> 0:49:52.120 People say, look like Kobe, but who's actually the one 0:49:52.160 --> 0:49:56.399 who was getting a paraphrase assaulted in this just tear 0:49:56.520 --> 0:49:58.600 you know, it was terrible then, but these people were 0:49:58.640 --> 0:50:02.800 going nuts for that. These same folks probably were losing 0:50:02.840 --> 0:50:05.600 their mind. And my biggest battle three million views, never 0:50:05.719 --> 0:50:07.840 as anyone at that time, and that was years. That 0:50:07.960 --> 0:50:12.800 was several years after the the you know that that 0:50:12.960 --> 0:50:16.400 case and what what it was that was that Okay, 0:50:17.239 --> 0:50:19.160 where are the where were the comments? Then I'm not 0:50:19.280 --> 0:50:22.000 saying even that that like you can't change your mind 0:50:22.040 --> 0:50:25.080 about things that I'm or change your mind about how 0:50:25.160 --> 0:50:27.719 you react to things, or you know, I'm living proof 0:50:27.760 --> 0:50:30.560 of that. And everyone should evolve and everyone should should 0:50:30.680 --> 0:50:33.279 think about these things in an act involved a way. 0:50:33.680 --> 0:50:36.680 But no one cared bad um, No one cared when 0:50:37.320 --> 0:50:41.480 like Diz in the movie bodied even you know, it's 0:50:41.880 --> 0:50:47.240 like the battle rap movie post eight miles. It's interesting, 0:50:47.360 --> 0:50:50.000 it's it's I mean, Joseph Cohn, the guy who made it, 0:50:50.120 --> 0:50:52.120 is a real is a is a knob head. He 0:50:52.239 --> 0:50:57.440 sucks but like based on is really shitty. Uh all 0:50:57.560 --> 0:51:02.160 lives matter, wish attitude about everything that's him uh swollen recently. 0:51:03.040 --> 0:51:05.320 But this has a lot and I'm not this is 0:51:05.360 --> 0:51:08.040 not me being like to knock Diz, but just rather 0:51:08.160 --> 0:51:11.560 like no one. There was no outcry when this movie 0:51:11.600 --> 0:51:14.840 came out only a few years ago where he brought 0:51:14.920 --> 0:51:18.839 this up earnestly, not like with a wink, like oh, 0:51:18.960 --> 0:51:20.959 he didn't do it like that. He said a line 0:51:21.000 --> 0:51:24.000 that has premised on the assumption that that you think 0:51:24.080 --> 0:51:28.040 that this man is referred to did the sexual so 0:51:28.200 --> 0:51:30.399 you know, like so people pick and choose. I mean, 0:51:30.480 --> 0:51:34.279 like Ron had a line about Eric, like calling big 0:51:34.360 --> 0:51:38.320 t like Eric Garner like mirror years like and and 0:51:38.480 --> 0:51:41.520 that's again he can move past the eye, but he 0:51:41.600 --> 0:51:47.760 regrets it. I'm almost sure of it. But people really 0:51:48.440 --> 0:51:53.480 just I think people wanted a reason to get me 0:51:53.560 --> 0:51:55.560 out of here or whatever they want to do. A 0:51:55.640 --> 0:51:59.440 battle rap. You know, Childish Gambino had a trade online. Ohn, 0:51:59.760 --> 0:52:02.560 yeah it it's it's and I think he said I 0:52:02.560 --> 0:52:06.320 would die for yeah, like that's and that's and and 0:52:06.520 --> 0:52:08.160 I'm sure they're in his mind. Then he was like, 0:52:08.320 --> 0:52:11.359 oh yeah, that's really powerful. There's no there's no problem here. 0:52:12.239 --> 0:52:14.600 Um but yeah, so like that happened, and I think 0:52:15.160 --> 0:52:18.520 I probably you know, there was talk about me. I 0:52:18.600 --> 0:52:21.200 feel like that might be one reason might not get 0:52:21.280 --> 0:52:24.759 booked again by a lot of folks. And that's but 0:52:25.000 --> 0:52:27.040 you think if they're not going to book me based 0:52:27.080 --> 0:52:31.600 on that, that's fine. My Spotify numbers didn't go down 0:52:31.760 --> 0:52:36.880 at all. My YouTube subscribers didn't go down. My my type, 0:52:36.920 --> 0:52:40.360 you know, the music fans stayed as I always have, 0:52:40.880 --> 0:52:44.080 even though I'm a turtle about releasing things. So that 0:52:44.200 --> 0:52:46.799 whole controversy, I like dipped off Twitter for a couple 0:52:46.840 --> 0:52:48.960 of months, just like let people be like. I just 0:52:49.760 --> 0:52:52.719 I got off you know, of Twitter for a little 0:52:52.719 --> 0:52:56.000 bit after that and Instagram just because I thought, let 0:52:56.080 --> 0:52:59.560 people not have to see my face and get read 0:53:00.160 --> 0:53:03.520 re aggravated. It wasn't about me, like because I mean, 0:53:03.640 --> 0:53:05.560 how I do get some death threats, which sucked. But 0:53:05.719 --> 0:53:10.520 like you know, I'm always legally armed, So like, I 0:53:10.560 --> 0:53:13.960 don't really sweat it too much. I don't believe it 0:53:14.120 --> 0:53:19.680 mysterious as to what that means exactly, but there's a 0:53:20.640 --> 0:53:22.480 I think I think they're like, it just wasn't It 0:53:22.640 --> 0:53:25.359 wasn't It felt like no one would get a chance 0:53:25.440 --> 0:53:28.040 to get over it. And I mean that like, uh oh, 0:53:28.200 --> 0:53:30.200 just get over me, but like to really genuinely like 0:53:30.800 --> 0:53:34.239 not have to. People were upset about his death, I 0:53:34.320 --> 0:53:36.880 don't need to. They don't need frustration to be compounded 0:53:36.920 --> 0:53:39.160 with it. Um. So I was like, all right, I'm 0:53:39.239 --> 0:53:42.080 I'll be out for a little bit. Um. So you 0:53:42.320 --> 0:53:47.800 you mentioned earlier, um that not at all time. You know, 0:53:47.920 --> 0:53:51.160 you've always been a leftist, but you that hasn't always 0:53:51.239 --> 0:53:55.600 been reflected in your art or how you So, how 0:53:55.760 --> 0:54:02.080 do you find like recon eiling your leftist principles with 0:54:02.840 --> 0:54:04.759 not only the art that you make, but just the 0:54:04.880 --> 0:54:07.279 genre that you're involved in. I mean, just earlier you 0:54:07.320 --> 0:54:10.759 know this is definitely a leftist podcast, but you know, 0:54:11.000 --> 0:54:15.080 just earlier, me and you were kind of reminiscent DMX. 0:54:16.000 --> 0:54:17.680 You know what I'm saying. If you go through d 0:54:17.840 --> 0:54:21.640 m X catalog you're gonna find a lot of ours 0:54:21.800 --> 0:54:27.279 here and there that aren't, you know, especially in Yeah, 0:54:27.400 --> 0:54:30.280 You're gonna gonna be looked at as quote unquote problematic. 0:54:30.360 --> 0:54:32.920 So like, how do you reconcile that? I think it's 0:54:33.080 --> 0:54:39.040 it's for my just from my part, like my contributions. Um, 0:54:41.719 --> 0:54:44.239 I just for the stuff I've already done that I 0:54:44.440 --> 0:54:50.000 don't approve of. I just for the most part, I 0:54:50.120 --> 0:54:56.960 just sort of like have a general overall disclaimer for 0:54:57.160 --> 0:55:01.680 it that you know, I regret a lot of it, 0:55:02.400 --> 0:55:07.200 and if someone wants to talk about it and air 0:55:07.360 --> 0:55:10.200 what they're feeling about it, I will always be receptive 0:55:10.239 --> 0:55:16.879 to that. As my responsibility anyone who is hurt by 0:55:17.760 --> 0:55:21.360 directly or indirectly anything I've ever wrapped it is. It 0:55:21.520 --> 0:55:24.920 is there for the criticizing, as I think any art is. 0:55:25.040 --> 0:55:31.160 But like, as the artist, I encourage people how they 0:55:31.320 --> 0:55:33.960 usually take me up on this, But like because I 0:55:34.000 --> 0:55:36.200 think you can tell, like I'm earnest about it. But 0:55:36.280 --> 0:55:38.440 if someone feels if someone feels like there's something I 0:55:38.520 --> 0:55:43.720 haven't addressed in my that catalog, whether songs or battles, 0:55:43.760 --> 0:55:50.520 that is screwed up, then I'm fine. I'm fine addressing 0:55:50.560 --> 0:55:55.279 that and not you know, like, oh, I'm sorry you 0:55:55.360 --> 0:55:58.560 were offended way, but in a in a way that 0:55:58.719 --> 0:56:06.480 hopefully affirms their experiences and their feelings and shows that 0:56:06.680 --> 0:56:10.960 I sincerely learned from it and that it's it's it's 0:56:12.280 --> 0:56:18.120 hopefully I wouldn't repeat such indignities. And there might be 0:56:18.200 --> 0:56:21.239 stuff that I've I've dropped on my last project, you know, 0:56:21.640 --> 0:56:24.640 this past year, that I'll regret in a little bit too. 0:56:25.400 --> 0:56:27.919 I don't think so, like I even like change. There's 0:56:27.920 --> 0:56:30.600 some stuff I changed going in, Like I had one 0:56:30.680 --> 0:56:36.880 line about like um, I said, like all right, like 0:56:36.960 --> 0:56:39.080 would you stand up or just stare at your feet 0:56:39.160 --> 0:56:44.360 embarrassed a something like embarrassed too scared to compete? And 0:56:44.480 --> 0:56:47.880 its like before the lines, this is like like when 0:56:47.920 --> 0:56:51.719 I first read this old not old verse, but I've 0:56:51.840 --> 0:56:55.480 repurposed older verse from like a little while ago, not 0:56:55.640 --> 0:56:59.640 like a decade ago. But I said like stare at 0:56:59.719 --> 0:57:02.920 your feet or like remain in your seat like a paraplegic. 0:57:03.000 --> 0:57:06.160 And it's sort of like the rhyme scheme sounded dope, 0:57:06.239 --> 0:57:13.920 but like it basically was inadvertently kind of he was 0:57:13.920 --> 0:57:21.360 ablest you know, like like likening arab apolegism and and 0:57:21.600 --> 0:57:26.480 and and a disability to a like a lack of 0:57:26.600 --> 0:57:31.120 courage basically in the context that one like lining standing 0:57:31.280 --> 0:57:36.120 up as they you know, which I mean remain in 0:57:36.200 --> 0:57:41.160 your seat still. Maybe like that's a stretch with the depot. 0:57:41.200 --> 0:57:42.840 But the fact that I got outright had it, like 0:57:43.000 --> 0:57:46.000 the word paraplegic in there, it was like, yeah, no, 0:57:46.160 --> 0:57:47.920 I don't need it, and so like like what when 0:57:47.920 --> 0:57:50.080 I had the chance to like redo this song for 0:57:50.200 --> 0:57:54.480 this project, it was like, that's going to change. It's interesting, 0:57:54.560 --> 0:57:57.479 you know. I was I was talking to a Mortal 0:57:57.520 --> 0:58:00.560 Technique a couple of weeks ago, and he saying that 0:58:00.680 --> 0:58:02.440 he was on the show and he was saying that 0:58:03.120 --> 0:58:05.800 on his next album in the middle passage whenever that 0:58:05.920 --> 0:58:08.040 comes out, he said, he doesn't use the N word 0:58:08.080 --> 0:58:10.200 at all, Like he's like that's taken. He's like that's 0:58:10.240 --> 0:58:13.080 out of his vocabulary even in regular life too. So 0:58:13.280 --> 0:58:17.000 that was you know, people, people change all the time. Yeah, 0:58:17.400 --> 0:58:20.960 it's fair to admit, it's fair to I think it's 0:58:21.040 --> 0:58:24.400 just if people are honest about it. That's what matters. 0:58:25.360 --> 0:58:30.000 If you're honest and open to to to have like 0:58:30.040 --> 0:58:32.560 a good faith talk about it and and grow from it. 0:58:32.720 --> 0:58:36.320 That's that's what matters. If I don't think the point 0:58:36.440 --> 0:58:41.000 is to like perpetually self flagellate and perpetually get like, 0:58:41.200 --> 0:58:43.400 I think that we also need to have a society 0:58:43.480 --> 0:58:46.720 where people can not just to be rewarded for their growth, 0:58:46.880 --> 0:58:55.800 but where they aren't perperpetually you know, condemned for it, 0:58:56.440 --> 0:58:59.160 you know. And unfortunately the Internet doesn't help with that. 0:58:59.360 --> 0:59:01.840 And this isn't about like cancel culture. It's rather about 0:59:01.920 --> 0:59:07.800 like the unproductivity of accountability culture. Sometimes because of the 0:59:07.920 --> 0:59:10.800 fact that like pears cyclically, someone will like discover a 0:59:13.240 --> 0:59:17.680 bad media moment for the first time from someone who's famous, 0:59:18.000 --> 0:59:21.200 even though it's already been litigated before years ago, over 0:59:21.240 --> 0:59:24.920 and over again, and we there has to be some 0:59:25.120 --> 0:59:29.320 more raise or or sort of norms around that. It's 0:59:29.360 --> 0:59:31.840 not can't be formalized because that sort of thing isn't 0:59:31.960 --> 0:59:35.520 thing you can really formalize, but things need to sort 0:59:35.560 --> 0:59:40.920 of promote the idea that if X person who did 0:59:41.360 --> 0:59:48.080 why bad thing makes earnest amends that we don't forget 0:59:48.120 --> 0:59:52.120 about everything. What's the point of amends If it's forgetting you, 0:59:52.200 --> 0:59:56.160 You don't learn something from that. But people can feel 0:59:56.200 --> 0:59:58.080 like they have the room to go on and we don't. 0:59:58.280 --> 1:00:00.560 And the problem is it's funny that the people complain 1:00:00.640 --> 1:00:04.200 most about like cancel culture and like usually conservatives who 1:00:04.280 --> 1:00:08.160 helped build such and sustain a very punitive society, you know, 1:00:08.240 --> 1:00:10.360 and the ones who are always like, if they didn't 1:00:11.200 --> 1:00:17.040 create this punitive society, then they wouldn't have punitive judgmental 1:00:17.640 --> 1:00:20.720 norms around everything, and that make them afraid. It's like 1:00:20.800 --> 1:00:24.360 the whole ideas, like it's the irony of like if 1:00:24.480 --> 1:00:28.240 Brett Kavanaugh hadn't been part of the world, then Brett 1:00:28.320 --> 1:00:32.640 Kavanaugh built, he might have there might have been a 1:00:32.960 --> 1:00:38.320 restorative justice space for everything that he did, you know, 1:00:38.720 --> 1:00:43.360 but there isn't because of men like him. Yeah, why 1:00:43.440 --> 1:00:45.160 you know, and that I think that that that the 1:00:45.440 --> 1:00:49.360 same goes for like the anti PC culture folks, Yeah, 1:00:50.760 --> 1:00:54.120 anti s JW tis Yeah, yeah, you know if they 1:00:54.440 --> 1:00:59.440 they in other aspects of life, are very punitive, are 1:00:59.800 --> 1:01:03.480 very you know, love to shut down stuff that they 1:01:03.520 --> 1:01:07.080 don't like, so they're helping. I mean, that's like the 1:01:07.120 --> 1:01:09.960 whole chief organizing principle of their ship is to shut 1:01:10.040 --> 1:01:13.760 down stuff that they don't like. It it's a fascism shuffle, 1:01:13.840 --> 1:01:17.040 is it's strictly just like what what is it that 1:01:17.120 --> 1:01:18.880 they like, you know what I mean, It's like they 1:01:18.920 --> 1:01:21.280 don't they don't even they literally don't even view it 1:01:21.440 --> 1:01:23.040 that way. It's like they have a blind spot in 1:01:23.120 --> 1:01:26.120 their mind that they can't even put that into a context. 1:01:26.200 --> 1:01:31.840 How how they're like actually the biggest cancelers anybody in 1:01:31.880 --> 1:01:36.120 the country, and they and it its the ultimate the 1:01:36.200 --> 1:01:39.200 ultimate conclusion is like just like violent fascism, but like 1:01:39.360 --> 1:01:41.160 one of the places they go is like you end 1:01:41.240 --> 1:01:44.000 up with someone like Stephen Crowder who's like wandering around 1:01:44.000 --> 1:01:47.200 a different planet fitnesses or crunch Fitness or wherever, uh, 1:01:47.440 --> 1:01:50.400 pretending to be a trans person uh, and just being 1:01:50.520 --> 1:01:56.160 obnoxious just for any gender uh. And and mean like 1:01:56.240 --> 1:02:00.800 oh look they're just you know, like like these stunts 1:02:01.800 --> 1:02:06.760 and because they don't actually have any positive vision of 1:02:06.960 --> 1:02:09.080 what life could be and wow, it could be better. 1:02:10.080 --> 1:02:13.720 Crowder reminds me like there was this about when I 1:02:13.760 --> 1:02:15.560 was a kid, there was this comic book. It was 1:02:15.600 --> 1:02:20.760 like a Superman story where like Superman landed in communist 1:02:20.840 --> 1:02:24.280 Russia and Red instead, yeah, Red Sun, and he grew 1:02:24.320 --> 1:02:27.160 up to be like Stephen Crowder is like if Jim 1:02:27.280 --> 1:02:30.880 Carrey's shuttle that brought him to earth like landed in 1:02:30.960 --> 1:02:35.800 Russia MBOs Yard and he absolutely, yeah, No, that's a great. Yeah, 1:02:35.880 --> 1:02:38.400 it's it's it's weird because you have these folks who 1:02:38.560 --> 1:02:44.280 just because they either didn't get or they rejected an 1:02:44.320 --> 1:02:52.240 intellectual cultural framework of like rational like modern thought thought. Yeah, 1:02:52.720 --> 1:02:56.439 they they're stuck with this ship. They're trying to fit, 1:02:57.600 --> 1:03:03.080 you know, a critique of modern ship into a very 1:03:03.800 --> 1:03:09.480 old fashioned, narrow minded and uncreative Hey, they can hold 1:03:09.480 --> 1:03:11.280 and they can't do it. They can't square it because 1:03:11.960 --> 1:03:14.280 it is not built for that. I mean, like you 1:03:14.360 --> 1:03:19.000 have people like you have, they're like anti postmodernism, even 1:03:19.200 --> 1:03:24.800 like people like which doesn't you can't, you can't compete critically. 1:03:24.880 --> 1:03:30.320 Then if you think things like that, there's nothing like 1:03:30.560 --> 1:03:36.120 hearing somebody who's obviously stupid talk say stuff like postmodernism. Yeah, 1:03:36.640 --> 1:03:40.760 you know, like like seeing something like neck Beard anti 1:03:40.960 --> 1:03:47.200 s JW YouTuber like cultural Marxist post model, like you 1:03:47.440 --> 1:03:51.440 shut the funk up. And if if people haven't watched, 1:03:51.440 --> 1:03:57.640 I think the best um sort of video exploration of 1:03:57.760 --> 1:04:06.480 this issue is Natalie wins Uh ContraPoints video about Jordan 1:04:06.560 --> 1:04:11.360 Peterson recommended. It's like that. It's it really delves into 1:04:11.520 --> 1:04:16.120 how it's a whole movement that is predicated on having 1:04:16.200 --> 1:04:20.680 basically not done the reading you really have to like, 1:04:20.840 --> 1:04:25.880 and that happened when when slavo Zek and Jordan Peterson debated, 1:04:25.960 --> 1:04:31.200 you could tell that, yeah, blood bath, it was terrible. 1:04:31.240 --> 1:04:35.440 It's like you, you know, these these right wingers, especially 1:04:35.560 --> 1:04:39.480 like these YouTube proud and like the Internet era folks, 1:04:40.040 --> 1:04:47.000 they tend to be very uninformed and or just order 1:04:47.560 --> 1:04:51.680 wholly misinterpreted really like like the whole cannon that they 1:04:51.760 --> 1:04:54.560 think that they know they don't understand you, and it's 1:04:54.640 --> 1:04:57.640 it's but you know, to be fair, a lot of 1:04:57.720 --> 1:05:00.720 them wouldn't think the way they do if they I 1:05:00.840 --> 1:05:05.440 did understand it, that's the problem. And whereas there are 1:05:05.480 --> 1:05:07.840 other folks who do understand this stuff and they don't 1:05:07.880 --> 1:05:10.720 care and they don't try to have the veneer of like, no, 1:05:10.960 --> 1:05:14.040 my vision of society is better for everybody. It's I 1:05:14.080 --> 1:05:16.480 don't care if my vision of society is better for everybody. 1:05:16.640 --> 1:05:18.960 That's not the point of society to me or this 1:05:19.080 --> 1:05:22.200 point of life. That that type of conservative or or 1:05:22.600 --> 1:05:25.000 or right that's I think that's starting to be the 1:05:25.920 --> 1:05:30.760 dominant form, like that they're coming back there, Yeah, because 1:05:30.800 --> 1:05:34.640 that was the thing. And I think that that even 1:05:34.800 --> 1:05:38.680 Trump folks try to life. They want to feel good 1:05:38.760 --> 1:05:41.520 about themselves as people. I think everyone wants to, but 1:05:41.640 --> 1:05:43.680 like they like want to talk about how Trump like 1:05:45.200 --> 1:05:48.040 hell black people, for instance, like this is the lowest 1:05:48.040 --> 1:05:51.040 black unemployment ever. I think there's a conservative strain that's 1:05:51.080 --> 1:05:53.800 like who gives a ship? They don't care about that either, 1:05:54.400 --> 1:05:57.840 and they are going to be more openly genicidal in 1:05:57.880 --> 1:06:01.280 their rhetoric. Rhetoric. Yeah, and also right now, I think 1:06:01.440 --> 1:06:06.160 like their their game is pretty much about like securing 1:06:06.240 --> 1:06:08.600 the bag first. Like I think they're trying, they're trying 1:06:08.680 --> 1:06:11.600 to be they're trying to be more inclusive as long 1:06:11.680 --> 1:06:14.640 as everybody's under the umbrella of fascism, you know what 1:06:14.680 --> 1:06:16.240 I'm saying. So it's like, yeah, what are you doing? 1:06:16.320 --> 1:06:18.520 You kind of zones? You black? But you fascists all right? 1:06:18.520 --> 1:06:20.440 You're cool? What are you doing? Milo? You're gay? But 1:06:20.440 --> 1:06:22.120 are you fascists all right with us? You know what 1:06:22.120 --> 1:06:24.200 I'm saying. I think they're at that stage now, and 1:06:24.280 --> 1:06:26.920 then if they were to get their way, then they 1:06:26.960 --> 1:06:30.680 would worry about the particulars afterward. Yeah, then yeah, exactly. 1:06:30.800 --> 1:06:34.680 That that's that is the that's been the game, and 1:06:34.720 --> 1:06:37.440 I think people will need to look at that's when 1:06:37.560 --> 1:06:41.360 when you know, I caution friends of mine and would 1:06:41.360 --> 1:06:45.560 be like, oh, you know, like when gay marriage became legal, 1:06:46.200 --> 1:06:48.080 They're like, oh, that's amazing that things are gone the 1:06:48.160 --> 1:06:52.360 way are are to a brighter future, and like there 1:06:52.480 --> 1:07:02.960 are like active like LGBT ashists in Europe prominent, and 1:07:03.040 --> 1:07:06.440 that's and then fast forward, we got my low fastward, 1:07:06.440 --> 1:07:10.040 you know, like it's not a we need to chill 1:07:10.200 --> 1:07:14.720 on the whole, like premature congratulations on a brighter tomorrow 1:07:14.840 --> 1:07:17.520 because we're not there yet. And it adapts like a 1:07:17.680 --> 1:07:22.080 capital can co opt anybody, fascism could co opt, and 1:07:22.480 --> 1:07:26.240 like anyone could be co opertive. No one's immune to that. 1:07:28.520 --> 1:07:30.800 So can you talk to us a little bit about 1:07:31.400 --> 1:07:32.720 well not even a little bit, but like, can you 1:07:32.800 --> 1:07:34.400 talk to me talk to us about some of your 1:07:34.400 --> 1:07:39.000 activism that you do. Sure, I like, what's your what's 1:07:39.040 --> 1:07:41.520 your what what's your flavor of active? Yeah? Yeah, So 1:07:41.600 --> 1:07:44.200 there's a couple of things. Um My, my nine to 1:07:44.320 --> 1:07:49.760 five is like supporting advocacy for immigrant rights in New 1:07:49.840 --> 1:07:51.840 York State and City and also a little bit of 1:07:51.880 --> 1:07:55.479 the federal stuff. I'm I'm a I'm a happy cog 1:07:55.760 --> 1:07:58.760 in the operation. Um, but you know, I also like 1:07:59.720 --> 1:08:04.000 no my lane. I like as I, as a white man, 1:08:04.520 --> 1:08:09.160 would feel very weird taking like a front row role 1:08:09.280 --> 1:08:12.440 or whatever like alter. You know, so happy to be 1:08:12.600 --> 1:08:17.120 a operations and logistics type of that's that's very happy too. 1:08:17.200 --> 1:08:21.280 But then you know, and contribute my thoughts as needed. Um, 1:08:23.000 --> 1:08:25.040 what brought you into that? Like? What was I was 1:08:25.320 --> 1:08:29.439 in another job that was not cool. It was like 1:08:30.479 --> 1:08:35.200 just a desk thing that was not me. Um, and 1:08:35.720 --> 1:08:42.840 I got laid off and one of them and someone 1:08:42.960 --> 1:08:47.599 who I met in my activism with the Democratic Socialist 1:08:47.600 --> 1:08:53.439 in America, you know, recommended me for this job. And uh, 1:08:54.040 --> 1:08:57.400 you know at d s A is I work with 1:08:57.479 --> 1:09:01.760 them a lot. I was uh member of the South 1:09:01.880 --> 1:09:06.000 Brooklyn Organizing Committee of d s A for a couple 1:09:06.040 --> 1:09:11.479 of years. I you know, have been uh you know, 1:09:11.640 --> 1:09:16.200 part of its electoral field operations before, Like I trained 1:09:16.280 --> 1:09:21.720 hundreds of camvusers before for different candidates. We've endorsed, and 1:09:22.680 --> 1:09:27.479 I've done you know, like martial and public safety, you know, 1:09:28.320 --> 1:09:33.680 work with their with the d s A marshaling like 1:09:34.640 --> 1:09:37.800 organization or you know something that I already call it. Uh. 1:09:38.360 --> 1:09:41.639 And so I do stuff like you know, getting I'm 1:09:41.640 --> 1:09:47.080 involved in like street protests for like uh, anti police, 1:09:47.120 --> 1:09:50.760 anti racist stuff too. That's that's another another thing I do, 1:09:51.439 --> 1:09:54.400 UM and trying to think through how to do that 1:09:54.560 --> 1:09:59.360 in a productive, safe way safe for the protesters. I 1:09:59.439 --> 1:10:01.960 don't give a ship about safe for the cops or 1:10:02.080 --> 1:10:06.880 property that can whatever. So UM, I imagine you've been 1:10:07.479 --> 1:10:10.360 really busy with that stuff this last year. Yeah, And 1:10:10.520 --> 1:10:13.280 initially I had to, like when it first really really 1:10:13.680 --> 1:10:18.320 blew up in the early summer because of COVID, because 1:10:18.320 --> 1:10:20.040 like I just didn't know what was up and what 1:10:20.920 --> 1:10:25.520 I had. I liked my mom was very very vulnerable, 1:10:26.200 --> 1:10:28.920 uh through to her health, and like I just I 1:10:28.960 --> 1:10:32.080 guess I was still in that like ten block bubble, 1:10:33.680 --> 1:10:37.360 very limited sort of life. I kind of waited a 1:10:37.479 --> 1:10:41.840 little bit, like several weeks after the first initial like 1:10:41.920 --> 1:10:44.479 a bunch of protests, to be like, are people getting 1:10:44.520 --> 1:10:49.040 COVID from this, because like it'd be one thing for 1:10:49.160 --> 1:10:51.880 me to risk myself. I can't, you know. But like 1:10:52.000 --> 1:10:54.840 then I was like helping my mama's stuff, you know, 1:10:55.000 --> 1:10:56.400 like this is when we didn't even know whether like 1:10:56.520 --> 1:11:02.479 surface transmission wasn't an issue yet for COVID, and I, 1:11:04.400 --> 1:11:08.400 you know, I you know, got in and started going 1:11:08.479 --> 1:11:15.800 to actions and marches, and it coincided with pushes for 1:11:15.960 --> 1:11:19.439 the New York City Council to defund the police, which 1:11:19.840 --> 1:11:23.120 they did not, and they basically did a whole like 1:11:23.560 --> 1:11:25.559 shell game that made it look like they took money 1:11:25.560 --> 1:11:28.920 away from the cops and they ultimately didn't. Um And 1:11:28.960 --> 1:11:33.600 that's still ongoing, still ongoing fight, and that budget is 1:11:33.680 --> 1:11:39.840 coming back up for consideration in the streets for that. UM. Yeah, 1:11:39.880 --> 1:11:44.000 I've been active, Yeah, very active as a result. That's 1:11:44.040 --> 1:11:48.360 what's up man. Well, yeah, it's been super fucking dove 1:11:48.439 --> 1:11:50.880 talking to you. Yeah, I appreciate you taking the time 1:11:50.880 --> 1:11:52.439 to talk to you. Man. Where can people find you 1:11:52.560 --> 1:11:55.800 at your music and just your work? So if they 1:11:55.880 --> 1:11:58.960 just go on if they google me, you know what, actually, 1:11:59.120 --> 1:12:02.360 screw that, go of the platforms themselves. I think that's 1:12:02.400 --> 1:12:05.800 the best way. Spell my name s O U l 1:12:06.280 --> 1:12:11.560 k h A N. And whether that's in searching on Spotify, 1:12:11.760 --> 1:12:16.320 on title, Apple Music, or on Twitter, Instagram, I'm usually 1:12:16.439 --> 1:12:20.920 the only I'm usually soul con on everything at Facebook, 1:12:21.080 --> 1:12:23.160 like I though I'm not on Facebook as much, likely 1:12:23.240 --> 1:12:26.360 on my fan page, you know, like and there's I 1:12:26.479 --> 1:12:29.360 just dropped the project, I should say just it's almost 1:12:29.360 --> 1:12:33.639 a year ago. But in July UM dropped an EP 1:12:33.840 --> 1:12:35.960 called grow Up. It's really good. I think people should 1:12:36.040 --> 1:12:41.320 listen to it. I it's on soul Spasm. I think it. Unfortunately, 1:12:41.360 --> 1:12:44.640 their timing was kind of set and I didn't know 1:12:45.080 --> 1:12:49.240 how to change that. And if got overshadowed by everything happening, 1:12:49.439 --> 1:12:52.880 and that's okay. It would be weird to complain about that. UM. 1:12:53.120 --> 1:12:57.400 But if if they see like people are like, oh 1:12:57.479 --> 1:12:59.360 I like soul comm but I didn't realize release anything, 1:12:59.479 --> 1:13:02.000 there's probably a reason because the other more important stuff 1:13:02.040 --> 1:13:06.439 was going on. It still goes on, UM. If you know, 1:13:06.800 --> 1:13:11.519 I'm hopefully going to release another thing by the summer, 1:13:12.760 --> 1:13:17.599 another EP, and we'll see from there and hopefully people 1:13:17.680 --> 1:13:20.680 like that. And I'll be doing more videos of me 1:13:20.880 --> 1:13:26.080 rapping just in my home probably and it should be 1:13:26.160 --> 1:13:30.840 cool and I hope people enjoy the music. If they 1:13:30.880 --> 1:13:33.360 ever see me promoting something that they can get involved 1:13:33.360 --> 1:13:36.040 in politically, I encourage them too. And if people have 1:13:36.200 --> 1:13:40.360 questions about how to get more involved in many types 1:13:40.400 --> 1:13:45.000 of activism. I'm happy to point them in the right 1:13:45.040 --> 1:13:48.320 direction if I'm not the right person to get them involved. 1:13:49.200 --> 1:13:54.120 And yeah, yeah, my My my main priority right now 1:13:54.280 --> 1:13:57.679 is doing whatever I can while being a healthy person. 1:13:58.360 --> 1:14:07.680 Two further better world. That's what's so bad? Yes, sir, 1:14:07.920 --> 1:14:12.120 that was Battle Rapper extraordinare so kind. I was really 1:14:12.200 --> 1:14:14.160 looking forward to that interview. I'm really glad I got 1:14:14.200 --> 1:14:16.120 a chance to finally do that. He is. That's it's 1:14:16.200 --> 1:14:20.439 It's funny. I've been watching his uh clips on YouTube 1:14:20.520 --> 1:14:23.040 for the longest time. And then I was just by 1:14:23.200 --> 1:14:26.400 chance doing a show in Brooklyn and he was in 1:14:26.479 --> 1:14:28.519 the crowd and I saw him and he was just 1:14:28.640 --> 1:14:31.040 there like super incognito, and I was like, yeah, what 1:14:31.080 --> 1:14:33.599 the funk? I know who you is? Yeah I can't 1:14:33.680 --> 1:14:40.160 act like yeah, okay, but um yeah, y'all make sure 1:14:40.280 --> 1:14:42.559 y'all check out some of his stuff. I'm not only 1:14:43.000 --> 1:14:45.679 you know the things that he's into politically, but y'all 1:14:45.720 --> 1:14:48.800 also check out some of his music and some of 1:14:48.920 --> 1:14:52.559 his battles online. But let's get into this music discussion. 1:14:52.600 --> 1:14:57.200 We're gonna be taking it back talking about some classic 1:14:57.439 --> 1:15:00.400 classic Battle tracks just over the year, or is the 1:15:00.600 --> 1:15:05.360 art of battling on wax is a completely different animal, 1:15:05.960 --> 1:15:08.920 you know, in itself. You you've got the battling on stage, 1:15:09.360 --> 1:15:11.760 but then you have another art form in itself, which 1:15:11.880 --> 1:15:14.880 is when two people have a problem with each other 1:15:15.439 --> 1:15:18.240 and they write raps about it and record whole songs 1:15:18.360 --> 1:15:24.439 that live on forever and ever. So up first, we're 1:15:24.439 --> 1:15:28.439 gonna be going back to probably what is considered you know, 1:15:28.640 --> 1:15:31.679 the most not the first battle, but like the most 1:15:31.840 --> 1:15:36.240 impactful battle. Actually, I think this is my many considered 1:15:36.400 --> 1:15:39.600 the first rap battle like really like the like the 1:15:39.680 --> 1:15:44.599 first rap Like nobody, nobody somewhere did this before this happened. 1:15:45.240 --> 1:15:47.640 This was like the first like add a show like 1:15:47.800 --> 1:15:49.640 in the in the in the in the spirit of 1:15:49.720 --> 1:15:54.040 like eight Mile, like ed a venue to rappers, like 1:15:54.360 --> 1:15:57.280 had a battle, Okay, so that yeah, this is like 1:15:57.360 --> 1:16:01.840 the Harlem World Christmas celebration. In the severer of one, 1:16:02.560 --> 1:16:06.360 Cool Moody went up against Busy Be and I guess, 1:16:06.560 --> 1:16:09.599 you know, at least the most celebrated but by many 1:16:09.720 --> 1:16:14.920 considered like the the quintessential first rapattle. They used to 1:16:15.000 --> 1:16:17.919 be that like mainly like party rockers would win battles, 1:16:18.600 --> 1:16:20.920 and you know, as long as you get the crowd hype, 1:16:21.280 --> 1:16:22.920 the person who gets the crowd the hype, this is 1:16:23.120 --> 1:16:26.800 the one who wins. But this is like, this is 1:16:26.920 --> 1:16:29.240 that instance where you know, Kumo d got on stage 1:16:29.400 --> 1:16:33.519 and really just out wrapped Busy Be and showed that 1:16:33.760 --> 1:16:38.719 like lyricism was like a whole new gear taken, taking 1:16:38.800 --> 1:16:40.800 this battle rap stuff into So let's check a lout 1:16:40.800 --> 1:16:43.200 a little, right, because I think I think like at 1:16:43.240 --> 1:16:45.400 the inception of hip hop, the m C was sort 1:16:45.439 --> 1:16:48.040 of like a hype man for the DJ and that 1:16:48.240 --> 1:16:50.840 like it was about just adding an extra layer of 1:16:50.960 --> 1:16:53.519 cadence and like getting the crowd hyped up, et cetera. 1:16:53.920 --> 1:16:55.960 This was like, nah, actually you can take you can 1:16:56.040 --> 1:17:00.840 take em C into a whole different level where like 1:17:01.720 --> 1:17:07.800 yeah you'll see you'll see Yeah, everybody in cempo clubs, 1:17:08.160 --> 1:17:11.040 the con you can win, they're all fed ut come in, 1:17:11.200 --> 1:17:16.679 but you know you lose. You pick up wanted to shoot. 1:17:16.840 --> 1:17:19.720 I got fat new because they they're gonna hear some 1:17:19.840 --> 1:17:24.840 movies like you're taking the pub, you're packing. Yeah, I 1:17:24.880 --> 1:17:28.360 mean it's like nuts that Busy Bee was like up 1:17:28.400 --> 1:17:32.479 there hyping the crowd and then called out Coolmodi who 1:17:32.560 --> 1:17:34.479 was in the venue, and Cool Moody was like, not 1:17:34.720 --> 1:17:37.960 funk that, and it's like went on stage and just 1:17:38.280 --> 1:17:41.760 three styled at Busy be like Helena, and it was 1:17:43.439 --> 1:17:46.720 all hits, all hits, like like everything that Kubod was, 1:17:46.800 --> 1:17:50.240 he wasn't wasting any motion. It was just all disses. 1:17:50.439 --> 1:17:55.040 Every line was a diss but he he eviscerated him 1:17:55.120 --> 1:17:58.200 in that in turn, you know, grew the legend of 1:17:58.280 --> 1:18:01.200 Kubo D, who went on to have of various other 1:18:01.800 --> 1:18:05.040 classic battles you know down the lines, including one famous 1:18:05.120 --> 1:18:08.639 one with l O cou Ja. Yeah, let's hop onto 1:18:08.680 --> 1:18:12.880 the next one. We got uh between Boogie Down Productions 1:18:13.040 --> 1:18:17.760 just KRS one and Scott l. Rock versus the Jewice Crew. Um, 1:18:18.040 --> 1:18:20.479 it was like a misunderstanding that the Juice Crew said 1:18:20.479 --> 1:18:24.080 that hip hop started in Queens when BBD came out. 1:18:24.280 --> 1:18:28.200 So they came up with South Bronx, Um, you know, 1:18:28.280 --> 1:18:31.040 a song about where you know the true quote unquot 1:18:31.040 --> 1:18:33.960 true birthplaces of hip hop and then Jewice Crew responded 1:18:33.960 --> 1:18:36.559 with kill that Noise and then b b D came 1:18:36.600 --> 1:18:42.800 back where the bride is over Yes, scathing response, let's 1:18:42.880 --> 1:18:46.880 check that out to help them, Nickio making the Brooklyn 1:18:46.960 --> 1:19:00.280 Keepslo taking the bronkeeps in the Queen's keeps Fake come 1:19:00.320 --> 1:19:05.840 up to it. And so I feel like this was 1:19:06.080 --> 1:19:08.320 kind of the beginning of a trend that we see 1:19:08.400 --> 1:19:12.880 nowadays where rappers who have beefull trade tracks and kind 1:19:12.880 --> 1:19:14.920 of go back and forth, like as we've moved from 1:19:15.000 --> 1:19:17.439 like an analog age into a more digital one where 1:19:17.479 --> 1:19:18.800 you might not be in the same venue on the 1:19:18.840 --> 1:19:21.000 same night and calling each other out, but you might 1:19:21.200 --> 1:19:23.840 have soundclouds, you might have Twitter, and you might talking 1:19:23.880 --> 1:19:28.040 shit at each other all these virtual platforms like you 1:19:28.520 --> 1:19:30.920 you go back and forth with like SoundCloud tracks about 1:19:31.000 --> 1:19:32.920 like you know, fuck you, I heard You've got a 1:19:32.960 --> 1:19:38.320 secret child. Like Also, this adds like a new personal 1:19:38.439 --> 1:19:41.439 layer onto it too, because it's like what was once 1:19:42.560 --> 1:19:45.000 just like a competition that happens in the moment and 1:19:45.080 --> 1:19:47.479 then it's over. Now you're adding in the layer that 1:19:47.680 --> 1:19:51.320 it's like, hey, these dishes are going to exist forever. 1:19:51.720 --> 1:19:53.920 It doesn't matter that it doesn't matter now that it's 1:19:53.960 --> 1:19:58.280 like thirty years later. And these guys were probably you know, 1:19:58.840 --> 1:20:01.320 a lot of them involved to probably like squash be 1:20:01.479 --> 1:20:03.600 for moved on or in different phases of life. But 1:20:03.720 --> 1:20:05.800 you have, like this insult that you said about this 1:20:05.920 --> 1:20:09.200 other person that lives on forever, it's always gonna be there. 1:20:09.439 --> 1:20:11.479 And not only that, but it's too it's to slam 1:20:11.600 --> 1:20:14.960 in music people people are gonna listen to for other forever. 1:20:15.240 --> 1:20:20.840 So I've I've only had one distract made about me once, 1:20:20.960 --> 1:20:22.920 but it got the guys who did it took it 1:20:23.040 --> 1:20:26.120 down after I made my responseship. It was like it 1:20:26.320 --> 1:20:28.439 was like it was my first you know, I was 1:20:28.560 --> 1:20:30.720 looking forward to, like going back and forth. I was like, 1:20:30.840 --> 1:20:33.400 oh man, how how y'all gonna stop after this? The 1:20:33.479 --> 1:20:37.000 first one I was just gonna started. But that brings us, 1:20:38.640 --> 1:20:40.800 That brings us to the last track that we got, 1:20:40.880 --> 1:20:44.200 which I mean, in my opinion, you know, I've in 1:20:44.600 --> 1:20:47.519 preparation for this and just for other things, I must 1:20:47.560 --> 1:20:51.759 have listened to like sixty or seventy different battle tracks, 1:20:51.800 --> 1:20:55.000 obscure stuff that none of y'all even heard of, because 1:20:55.040 --> 1:20:57.560 you didn't even know such and such were beefing and 1:20:57.640 --> 1:21:00.360 stuff like that. But I have to say, after listening 1:21:00.360 --> 1:21:03.040 to all those battle tracks, I think that this next 1:21:03.120 --> 1:21:08.080 joint is probably the best recorded battle track in hip 1:21:08.120 --> 1:21:12.479 hop's history. In my opinion, this is Cannabis with second 1:21:12.640 --> 1:21:16.040 round knockout. Let's check this out. And like a truck 1:21:16.120 --> 1:21:18.560 free role model, you discussed me. I know, bitches to 1:21:18.640 --> 1:21:21.720 see you smoke weed recently. You walk around showing off 1:21:21.760 --> 1:21:24.200 your body because the sales postable avoid the fact that 1:21:24.280 --> 1:21:26.559 you ain't got scales mad at me because I kicked 1:21:26.600 --> 1:21:28.680 that ship real nick a spell when I did not 1:21:28.800 --> 1:21:32.960 be sending your fans with high hells Kumo feed to change. Yeah, 1:21:33.000 --> 1:21:34.560 and so here we see a little bit of that 1:21:34.720 --> 1:21:38.479 like discursive hierarchy being created, like when he's talking about like, 1:21:39.560 --> 1:21:41.960 um like most of your fans, and most of your 1:21:42.000 --> 1:21:45.360 fans were like oh applying that like oh you're more 1:21:45.479 --> 1:21:49.560 feminine because you're a fan base is feminine reinforcing, you know. 1:21:50.120 --> 1:21:52.320 Let me give a little backstory to this beef. So 1:21:52.479 --> 1:21:57.360 this is uh. This was the Cannabis uh response in 1:21:57.439 --> 1:22:00.880 a battle between him and Legendary for L. L cool 1:22:00.960 --> 1:22:07.560 J and I can't believe that I'm old enough. You 1:22:07.640 --> 1:22:09.960 know what I'm saying, but it's it's crazy. So they 1:22:10.040 --> 1:22:13.439 did a music video shoot and Cannabis looked up to L. 1:22:13.560 --> 1:22:18.120 COUJ like you know, like a god and ship and 1:22:18.560 --> 1:22:22.000 this Cannabis was a new rapper and he was doing 1:22:22.040 --> 1:22:26.000 this song with a method man, Red Man, DMX and 1:22:26.200 --> 1:22:28.800 l Couj. Right, so for Cannabis is like, oh snap 1:22:28.840 --> 1:22:31.680 pho on the song with these guys, it's crazy, And um, 1:22:31.880 --> 1:22:35.240 l Coj has a famous microphone tattoo on his arm, 1:22:35.600 --> 1:22:38.640 so I guess something happened in Cannabis like made a 1:22:38.680 --> 1:22:41.160 comment about like, oh, I want like a microphone tattoo 1:22:41.280 --> 1:22:44.080 just like that. So they filmed the video and then 1:22:44.400 --> 1:22:48.920 l rewrote his verse and mentioned that conversation like you 1:22:49.000 --> 1:22:52.120 can't grab this mic on my arm. So you know, 1:22:52.320 --> 1:22:54.439 it was kind of like a disk and everybody knew 1:22:54.439 --> 1:22:56.559 it was a disc to Cannabis because Cannabis and then 1:22:56.760 --> 1:22:59.000 you know, went and got a microphone tattooed on his arm, 1:22:59.040 --> 1:23:01.280 and then that song came about. So Cannabis made this 1:23:01.520 --> 1:23:03.559 is like the response and started like a whole thing 1:23:03.640 --> 1:23:06.080 between them, which you could make a whole documentary and 1:23:06.160 --> 1:23:10.080 a podcast about the battle between those two dudes in particular. 1:23:10.200 --> 1:23:13.880 But oh man, where where can I start? I mean, 1:23:15.360 --> 1:23:19.760 it's definitely has a cringe moments, you know, it's and 1:23:20.040 --> 1:23:26.639 obviously the sensibilities of it or definitely out of step today, 1:23:26.840 --> 1:23:30.439 but from just like a technical aspect of a battle 1:23:30.560 --> 1:23:36.320 rap song. It's again what Kumo'd did in his freestyle 1:23:36.560 --> 1:23:38.720 back in the eighties. I think what Cannabis does with 1:23:38.840 --> 1:23:43.200 this is like he creates something where every line is 1:23:43.320 --> 1:23:46.439 about l O COO J. You know. And for me 1:23:46.640 --> 1:23:49.040 what made it refreshing at the time is that it 1:23:49.200 --> 1:23:53.439 was something that was solely based in rap and in music. 1:23:53.560 --> 1:23:55.960 This is coming off of the heels of Tupac and 1:23:56.040 --> 1:24:00.519 Big You both getting killed because of some street ship 1:24:00.840 --> 1:24:03.400 that you know what I mean, that the media kind 1:24:03.479 --> 1:24:09.240 of manipulated into being being involved with music when it 1:24:09.320 --> 1:24:13.120 really wasn't. So for me, you know, it was like 1:24:13.479 --> 1:24:16.040 being young when the song came out and seeing that 1:24:16.160 --> 1:24:19.439 it was like, no, this was a beef between two 1:24:19.600 --> 1:24:24.240 rappers about how well they rapped over some rap ship, 1:24:25.240 --> 1:24:27.720 you know what I'm saying, and and and you know, 1:24:27.880 --> 1:24:31.720 and like like everything that they said about each other 1:24:32.000 --> 1:24:34.840 was based in that that field of like, yo, I'm 1:24:34.880 --> 1:24:37.120 a better rapper than you. Even like even even the 1:24:37.240 --> 1:24:43.200 line that that um, the line of your fans were 1:24:43.280 --> 1:24:47.000 high heels is more in reference, you know, just at 1:24:47.000 --> 1:24:49.200 the time was more in reference to like, yo, you're 1:24:49.240 --> 1:24:52.320 not even rapping for people who like listening to rap, 1:24:52.760 --> 1:24:55.040 because that was the stereotype back then, is that girls 1:24:55.080 --> 1:24:56.760 want to see L COJ when a shirt off and 1:24:56.840 --> 1:25:01.360 YadA YadA, YadA dada. So but I mean, it's it's 1:25:01.400 --> 1:25:03.840 it's a class Just just even thinking about that makes 1:25:03.880 --> 1:25:08.240 me smiles, Like I wish that when rappers in the 1:25:08.320 --> 1:25:10.920 two thousand's have beef with each other and they're making 1:25:11.000 --> 1:25:14.479 songs that it's like a battle of wits and people like, 1:25:14.600 --> 1:25:17.920 you know what I mean, like exaggerating ability and stuff 1:25:17.960 --> 1:25:20.679 like that, and not like yo, I'll spray your grandmother 1:25:20.840 --> 1:25:24.760 with the drum, you know what I mean, Like I'll 1:25:24.800 --> 1:25:27.040 pissed the whip you with the smack you with the tool. 1:25:27.200 --> 1:25:32.519 You know. It's like, yeah, maybe I'm just nah. I mean, 1:25:33.680 --> 1:25:36.400 I've been talking about a lot of these shootings here 1:25:36.439 --> 1:25:38.680 in Athens in recent episodes, and I was talking to 1:25:38.760 --> 1:25:40.599 the father of one of these kids that got killed. 1:25:41.160 --> 1:25:44.519 Apparently people was like jealous that he was blowing up musically, 1:25:45.400 --> 1:25:48.320 and people like and like a bunch of people conspired 1:25:48.360 --> 1:25:51.800 to like take this twenty year old child's life. So like, yeah, 1:25:51.920 --> 1:25:54.080 it goes like, Yo, I'm gonna spread your car up 1:25:54.080 --> 1:25:55.920 and then let people to people a literal literally go 1:25:56.040 --> 1:26:00.760 spread your car up. Yeah, I mean yeah, Hey, if 1:26:00.920 --> 1:26:03.880 if it's like the words are power, you know what 1:26:03.960 --> 1:26:05.800 I'm saying, It's like we we all have the right 1:26:05.880 --> 1:26:08.960 to say what we want. But it's like ship can manifest, 1:26:09.320 --> 1:26:13.280 you know what I'm saying, So you to that extent, 1:26:13.960 --> 1:26:15.920 it's like you gotta be mindful of things that you 1:26:16.000 --> 1:26:18.639 put out there in the world, you know. But that's 1:26:18.760 --> 1:26:23.360 it for us today. We are going to bounce, but 1:26:23.520 --> 1:26:25.560 you know we're gonna be back next week with some 1:26:25.720 --> 1:26:35.600 dope ship. Hey, Joel, you drop a beat reparations waiting 1:26:35.640 --> 1:26:39.800 the refaration? Yeah yeah, Yo, Who the hell ill of 1:26:39.880 --> 1:26:42.320 the knife? Riddle me that? Do you all know where 1:26:42.360 --> 1:26:45.200 I'm lyrically? Yet I'm lyrically at a level levitating you 1:26:45.360 --> 1:26:48.000 chumps because I'm sitting in the woods meditating with monks. 1:26:48.120 --> 1:26:50.280 Then I'm breaking a blunt and I'm thinking a skunk 1:26:50.320 --> 1:26:52.640 because i gotta smoke like every day to month. I 1:26:52.760 --> 1:26:55.360 want battle's first place, not a favorite stunt. Should I 1:26:55.439 --> 1:26:58.160 make a favorite rapap staying a slump, I'll rework it 1:26:58.320 --> 1:27:01.360 until let's see perfect. I did freestyle battles, No read 1:27:01.400 --> 1:27:06.439 her ship. I did freestyle battles, don't read her ship. 1:27:06.520 --> 1:27:09.800 I'm on stage to be Batchel, thinking to myself to 1:27:09.840 --> 1:27:12.320 look how peek got gap teeth, to watch taxis more 1:27:12.360 --> 1:27:14.760 the fat keys, the class geek a better slash beets. 1:27:14.840 --> 1:27:16.880 I'll be going for his family like, hey, ty, your 1:27:16.920 --> 1:27:18.960 mama got a supper walking last week? Or maybe I 1:27:19.080 --> 1:27:21.719 was passing the gases trashy but to look a little closer, 1:27:21.760 --> 1:27:23.680 but the fragrance were so nasty I had to hal 1:27:23.720 --> 1:27:26.439 a taxi to a different galaxy. Now the crops clapping 1:27:26.520 --> 1:27:28.960 and gas thing, I'm beating. That's Battley mother for a 1:27:29.000 --> 1:27:31.280 little stad We we can tearing each other down for 1:27:31.400 --> 1:27:33.720 props and freads, specially when he's in fact on my 1:27:33.840 --> 1:27:40.479 mom's dead. I'm Franka. I'll dope knife and we are waiting, 1:27:42.280 --> 1:27:46.599 and your mama sucks dix in hell. I hate everything 1:27:46.680 --> 1:27:49.839 about you, hate the way you look. Hey hey, hey, 1:27:49.920 --> 1:27:53.120 hey hey hey, but for real now we'll see you 1:27:53.160 --> 1:27:56.720 next week. Listen to Waiting on reparations. Something I heard 1:27:56.800 --> 1:27:59.960 radio app, Apple podcasts or wherever you get your podcast 1:28:00.000 --> 1:28:00.559 A sk