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Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace, a loving wife and a

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Speaker 1: well respected pharmacist at nowhere else but the Mayo Clinic

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Speaker 1: dies unexpectedly. What happened? I'm Nancy Grace. This is Crime Stories.

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Speaker 1: Thank you for being with us here at Crime Stories

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Speaker 1: and on series XM one eleven, trying to figure out

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Speaker 1: what happened to Betty Bowman. Healthy as a horse and

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Speaker 1: then suddenly bam gone, just like that of natural causes.

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Speaker 1: Let's just start at the beginning. Take a listen to this.

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Speaker 2: On August twenty first, twenty twenty three, the Southeast Minnesota

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Speaker 2: Medical Examiner's Office alerted the Rochester Police Department to the

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Speaker 2: suspicious death of Betty Bowman. She died on Agith and

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Speaker 2: the Medical Examiner's Office had to halt a cremation order

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Speaker 2: after learning of possible suspicious circumstances. According to court records,

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Speaker 2: the Medical Examiner's Office received a call from CGK, a

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Speaker 2: female friend of the Bowmans.

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Speaker 1: Huh okay, So just because a friend calls the hospital,

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Speaker 1: suddenly everything's off again. Thank you for being with us

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Speaker 1: here at Crime Stories. We're taking a very close look

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Speaker 1: at the death of a thirty two year old Mayo

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Speaker 1: clinic pharmacist who suddenly dies. Now when she goes in

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Speaker 1: to the hospital, she's perfectly fine in the weeks leading

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Speaker 1: up to that. But then how does everything go so

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Speaker 1: horribly wrong? And I will go first to Karen Start,

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Speaker 1: joining us renowned psychologists, joining us out of Manhattan, TV

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Speaker 1: radio trauma expert. You can find her at Karenstart dot

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Speaker 1: com and that's spelled Karen with to see Karen. I

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Speaker 1: think the shock of someone dying young and unexpectedly, it's

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Speaker 1: a whole different thing than when someone is in the

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Speaker 1: hospital or they're elderly. I guess, in a way, even

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Speaker 1: though there's no way to ever be ready to say

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Speaker 1: goodbye to somebody you love. And I know that whether

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Speaker 1: they die of old age or like my fiancee is

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Speaker 1: murdered in his twenties, unexpectedly, there's no good way to

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Speaker 1: say goodbye to somebody you love. But when it's sudden

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Speaker 1: and unexpected that it's a whole other layer to the

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Speaker 1: process of getting through it. You have the right words.

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Speaker 1: I don't. I'm just a lawyer. You explain, Karen Stark.

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Speaker 3: Bringing up your fiance That's a great example, because.

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Speaker 1: Karen, just because of you, you remember I gave up coffee,

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Speaker 1: you know, when I was pregnant with the twins because

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Speaker 1: of you and your analysis of all of these murders.

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Speaker 1: I've gone back to the hard stuff. I'm back on coffee.

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Speaker 1: Thank you. Go ahead.

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Speaker 3: But when you're talking about trauma, this is a great

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Speaker 3: example because the family, the friends, the people that were

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Speaker 3: close to her, they have more trouble getting over something

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Speaker 3: like this.

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Speaker 1: You don't ever get over.

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Speaker 3: Losing somebody that you love. But when it's traumatic like this,

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Speaker 3: when someone is healthy and described as being somebody that

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Speaker 3: loved people had all this energy and then overnight enters

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Speaker 3: the hospital and they did in a few days, they

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Speaker 3: just they're gone. That leaves you with something that you

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Speaker 3: can't stop thinking about. It's stayed, it's indelible, it's etched

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Speaker 3: into you, and it takes so much work to be

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Speaker 3: able to even live your life normally again without obsessing

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Speaker 3: about what could have.

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Speaker 4: Happened, What did I.

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Speaker 3: Do wrong, why didn't I say something? How am I responsible?

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Speaker 3: Even though you're not really affects people in a very

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Speaker 3: strong way, because it's not it's really like out of

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Speaker 3: left field.

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Speaker 5: You know.

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Speaker 1: Another thing about that, Karen Stark, Sometimes I have such

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Speaker 1: a huge long to do list every day. Sometimes I

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Speaker 1: forget some of them, not often, but sometimes, But I

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Speaker 1: remember distinctly every word that was said when I learned

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Speaker 1: Keith had been murdered. Because when I found out he

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Speaker 1: had passed away, See, it's hard for me to still

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Speaker 1: say dead. I thought that there been a car crash.

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Speaker 1: I didn't really know what had happened. In a period

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Speaker 1: of time passed and then I found out he was murdered.

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Speaker 1: And I remember the pastor at my little Methodist church,

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Speaker 1: I said, what happened and he was murdered. I remember

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Speaker 1: the entire conversation verbatim. Now, how can that be, Karen,

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Speaker 1: when I can forget it to do list?

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Speaker 3: Because what happens when you get that kind of news fancy,

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Speaker 3: it's kind of like a movie that plays in your head.

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Speaker 3: You remember everything that was said to you and what

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Speaker 3: you've and it's just it becomes stuck because it's just

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Speaker 3: so unexpected and it's not anything.

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Speaker 1: There's no script for it.

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Speaker 3: Your whole life story changes.

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Speaker 1: Joining me in addition to Karen Stark and again you

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Speaker 1: can find her at Karenstark dot com. And I want

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Speaker 1: to tell you we have not only been colleagues for many,

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Speaker 1: many years. We spent hours sitting together in the dark

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Speaker 1: of a Court TV studio watching trials live.

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Speaker 6: Boy, you did.

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Speaker 1: That's how I met Karen Stark at Court TV Third Avenue,

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Speaker 1: New York, when I did live trial coverage every single day,

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Speaker 1: and she would get up and come to the morning

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Speaker 1: shift with me. Had to be there at seven am. Guys,

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Speaker 1: we're talking about a thirty two year old young woman

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Speaker 1: so suddenly kills over in the hospital. There's really no

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Speaker 1: good way to put that. Joining me right now of Rochester.

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Speaker 1: Charles Kelly, reporter and anchor KTTC News, Charles, this woman

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Speaker 1: was actually beloved. You know, people actually get attached to

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Speaker 1: their pharmacist. I got attached to our pharmacist and even

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Speaker 1: the checkout person. I think it was the walgrains when

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Speaker 1: the twins were first born, because we were there so much,

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Speaker 1: Charles Kelly, we were there like between the two of

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Speaker 1: them every third day getting something for them, and they

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Speaker 1: knew us, and we knew them and their families because

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Speaker 1: we saw them all the time. And that's the way

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Speaker 1: this woman, Betty Bowman was. She was actually beloved at

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Speaker 1: the Mayo Clinic. I mean and Charles Kelly, can you

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Speaker 1: get any better than the Mayo Clinic? Really?

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Speaker 7: No, the world renowned Mayo Clinic. That that is what

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Speaker 7: Rochester is very much known for.

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Speaker 1: It is world renown, it is, and they don't hire

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Speaker 1: just me schlump off the streets. So this woman had

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Speaker 1: to be super smart and at the top of her game,

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Speaker 1: and now she's killing over guys. Take a listen to

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Speaker 1: our friends at crimeonline dot com.

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Speaker 2: Born and raised in Wichita, Kansas, Betty Bowman is the

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Speaker 2: kind of woman people like to call a friend. She's smart, loyal,

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Speaker 2: and exceptionally thoughtful. She graduated from the University of Kansas

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Speaker 2: School of Pharmacy with a pharmaceutical doctorate and completed residency

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Speaker 2: at Stormont Vale Hospital into Peka, Kansas. Betty and Connor

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Speaker 2: Bowman got married in May of twenty twenty one and

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Speaker 2: lived in Rochester, Minnesota, where Betty worked as a hospital

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Speaker 2: pharmacist while Connor went through internal medicine residency.

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Speaker 1: Oh on, right there, Wait, is this another case of

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Speaker 1: the wife putting the husband through medical school? Jackie ise

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Speaker 1: that what happened, Charles Kelly? Does she put him through

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Speaker 1: medical school while she worked as a pharmacist I.

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Speaker 7: Just know they both are very well educated medical experts.

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Speaker 7: But she was in medical school and then not sure

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Speaker 7: what the timeline is with their schooling.

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Speaker 1: Well, I know she got a doctorate, completed her residency

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Speaker 1: in Topeka. They get married twenty twenty one. Betty worked

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Speaker 1: as a pharmacist while he went through his residency. I

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Speaker 1: guess they met somewhere along the way in studies. She

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Speaker 1: went all the way to get her doctorate. So you know,

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Speaker 1: let me throw this out to doctor Lyle D. Burgoon,

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Speaker 1: President CEO Rapptor Farm and Talks Fellow of the Academy

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Speaker 1: of Toxicological Sciences Critical Science podcast. Wow, you're a toxicology expert.

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Speaker 1: How do you have time to do all that? Doctor Lyle?

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Speaker 1: Don't answer that. That was rhetorical, doctor Lyle Burgoon, I'm

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Speaker 1: going to call you doctor Lyle. That's okay, Doctor Lyle,

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Speaker 1: just a personal known on pharmacy studies. When I went

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Speaker 1: to college, I said Mom, what should I be? She said,

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Speaker 1: be a pharmacist. You'll always have a job. I'm like, okay,

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Speaker 1: I'll be aharmacists. I did not take chemistry in high school.

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Speaker 1: Was it required? So I go to college to be

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Speaker 1: a pharmacist, and I looked up. I didn't even know

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Speaker 1: what the elements were. I'm like, what is that? Then

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Speaker 1: I found out I was supposed to already know all that.

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Speaker 1: Needless to say, I fainted in the first lab when

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Speaker 1: I smelled all the chemicals. Hey, going to an autopsy

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Speaker 1: or a crime saying no problem, no problem, I don't

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Speaker 1: care how many dead bodies are in there, but that

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Speaker 1: chemistry lab I passed out anyway. Needless to say, I

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Speaker 1: did not do well at that. So I have my

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Speaker 1: hat off to anybody that can fight their way through.

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Speaker 1: It's like walking down Fifth Avenue through chewing gum, getting

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Speaker 1: through all that chemistry. So what do you have to

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Speaker 1: do to get a doctor? I'm trying to find out

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Speaker 1: about this woman. I'm going to know everything I can

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Speaker 1: find out. What do you know?

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Speaker 8: Yeah, so to get a doctorate in pharmaceutical sciences or

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Speaker 8: hers is probably a doctorate of pharmacy or actually pharmaceutical

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Speaker 8: scientist too.

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Speaker 1: Did you just say you're a pharmaceutical what you're a

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Speaker 1: pharmaceutical scientist? What did you just say?

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Speaker 8: Oh, I'm a pharmacologist, which is kind of related. So

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Speaker 8: I can't just spend drugs like a pharmacist can. But

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Speaker 8: you know, when I was in grad school, we would

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Speaker 8: study drugs and chemicals and how they do things, and

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Speaker 8: then we would turn around.

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Speaker 9: We would actually teach.

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Speaker 8: In the well, we have a pharmacy program where I was,

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Speaker 8: but we would teach in the medical schools and the

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Speaker 8: pharmacy schools.

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Speaker 1: And where were you, by the way, I was at

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Speaker 1: Michigan State University. Well that's a great school.

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Speaker 9: It is. Love it.

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Speaker 1: So this woman really again at the top of her

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Speaker 1: game and beloved, and all of our coworkers talked about

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Speaker 1: how thoughtful she was, had a traditional upbringing in Kansas,

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Speaker 1: in Wichita, beloved by her family. Can you imagine that

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Speaker 1: phone call. Everything's fine one day and the next day

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Speaker 1: she's dead. So let's get down to it. What happened?

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Speaker 1: Take a listen to our friend Dave mac.

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Speaker 2: At thirty two years old, Betty Bowman passes away from

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Speaker 2: a sudden onset autoimmune and infectious illness. Family and friends

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Speaker 2: are shocked. Betty Bowman was suffering from what seemed like

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Speaker 2: food poisoning, gastro intestinal distress, and dehydration when she was

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Speaker 2: admitted at the Mayo Clinic Saint Mary's Hospital on August sixteenth,

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Speaker 2: but her condition didn't get better. She took a turn

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Speaker 2: for the worse, with heart problems, fluid built up in

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Speaker 2: her lungs, and the removal of part of her colon

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Speaker 2: after it was discovered it contained necrotic tissue. This before

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Speaker 2: she died from organ failure.

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Speaker 1: Okay, that was like drinking from the fire hydrant, Nancy.

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Speaker 1: That was a lot of information. Is that, del Carson?

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Speaker 10: It is?

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Speaker 4: You know this is something with Okay, I just want.

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Speaker 1: To point out the deal. Carson is a veteran trial lawyer,

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Speaker 1: a high profile lawyer out of Jacksonville. He knows nothing

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Speaker 1: about pharmacology. He's not a medical doctor. Yet he's interrupting

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Speaker 1: the doctors and the toxicologists. Okay, I can't wait to

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Speaker 1: hear this. Go ahead, Dale Carson.

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Speaker 11: That's why I was an FBI agent because I saw

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Speaker 11: that than a lot of other people.

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Speaker 1: Right, and he's certainly never been accused of being modest.

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Speaker 1: Go ahead, there you go.

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Speaker 9: She was at Mayo Clinic. She's a doctor at Mayo Clinic.

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Speaker 9: She got the best care in the world. Immediately, those people.

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Speaker 11: Love one another when they're in practice together, so it's

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Speaker 11: not like she got reduced medical care. She got the

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Speaker 11: world's premium medical care. And it's a wonder she doesn't survive.

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Speaker 1: It's a wonder. I got to tell you my mom,

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Speaker 1: My mom was having a lot of difficulties, and Jackie,

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Speaker 1: it was during Dancing with the Stars, so there's already

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Speaker 1: true ress. Plus I was working full time, Plus I

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Speaker 1: had the twins living in a little bit of the apartment.

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Speaker 1: And in the middle of all this, my mom, who

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Speaker 1: was with me, got ill and we rushed her out

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Speaker 1: from La across the country to the Mayo Clinic and

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Speaker 1: they were amazing. So what you just said, Dell Carson

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Speaker 1: was dead on. Absolutely. If you can't the Mayo Clinic,

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Speaker 1: it can't help you. Nobody can help you. So all

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Speaker 1: of a sudden she dies and I need to speak

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Speaker 1: to doctor Lyle Bragoon again. Doctor Lyle, Well, what does

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Speaker 1: this mean? So she goes in for what do you say,

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Speaker 1: food poisoning and suddenly she has part of her colon removed.

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Speaker 1: It contained necrotic tissue. Now, necro, that means dead necrophiliac.

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Speaker 1: What is necrotic tissue in your colon?

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Speaker 8: It's exactly as you said, it's dead tissue. Basically, that

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Speaker 8: part of the large.

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Speaker 4: Intestine just died for some reason.

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Speaker 1: Okay, wait a minute, food poisoning, and suddenly your tissue

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Speaker 1: in your body is dead. See I'm into a lot

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Speaker 1: of autopsies, doctor Lyle, but I've never heard they go

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Speaker 1: in and they find dead tissue in your body. How

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Speaker 1: do you get dead tissue?

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Speaker 8: So usually what happened and you know, if we see

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Speaker 8: that tissue, it's you have a lack of oxygen so

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Speaker 8: that the blood flow to the area has stopped.

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Speaker 9: You know. One of the things that you might see

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Speaker 9: if you.

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Speaker 4: If you just came out of an.

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Speaker 8: Intestinal surgery of some kind, maybe an appendix removal or

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Speaker 8: something like that. One of the things that they're concerned

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Speaker 8: about is that the intestines will actually loop around themselves

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Speaker 8: and create a knot. And what that'll do is they'll

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Speaker 8: stop all the blood flow to a part of your intestine. So, uh,

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Speaker 8: that's why they're really happy if you're actually passing gas

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Speaker 8: and able to you know, uh poop for lack of

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Speaker 8: a better word. Uh, They're they're excited because it means

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Speaker 8: that you haven't you don't have a knots in your intestine,

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Speaker 8: because if you do, what will happen is the blood

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Speaker 8: flow will stop, the tissue there will die, and yeah,

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Speaker 8: it becomes a chronic.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, okay, I'm understanding what you're saying. A lot is

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Speaker 1: making sense now. After my dad, he had three open

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Speaker 1: heart surgeries plus countless others. He had, you know, stants,

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Speaker 1: He had the as I call it, the road o

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Speaker 1: radar cleaning out your he had his Karate, arnored everything Johne,

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Speaker 1: and he exercised. He was not overweight, he ate a

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Speaker 1: strict heart diet. He just had a bad heart. Long

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Speaker 1: story short, he has three open art surgeries. One of

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Speaker 1: the first questions they ask, and I'm looking over at Jackie,

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Speaker 1: is did he poop yet? I'm at the time, of course,

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Speaker 1: one of the times I was a high schooler, one

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Speaker 1: of the times I was in law school. Every time,

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Speaker 1: I'm like, Dad, I don't know, but what does that

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Speaker 1: have to do with his heart? You just made perfect

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Speaker 1: sense and you answered a very mysterious question. Time Stories

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Speaker 1: with me. It's he Grace trying to figure out why

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Speaker 1: this woman has did tissue and she just went in

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Speaker 1: the hospital for food poisoning. Okay, let's hear more from

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Speaker 1: crime stories investigative reporters.

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Speaker 2: While Betty Bowman was in the hospital. Connor Bowman suggested

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Speaker 2: she was suffering from a very rare illness referred to

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Speaker 2: as HLH. Tests were done for HLH, but they were inconclusive.

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Speaker 2: Regardless of the facts, Connor Bowman told multiple people his

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Speaker 2: wife died from HLH and even included HLH as a

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Speaker 2: cause of death in her obituary.

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Speaker 1: Okay, let me understand. What is h l H. I'm

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Speaker 1: going to be the brave one on this panel. Heemo

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Speaker 1: fay goctic go hemo fe gaw cidic hemo, vegasitic faga hemo,

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Speaker 1: vegasitic limpho his dion scytosis. I think is what HLH is.

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Speaker 1: But Charles Kelly, what is h LH?

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Speaker 7: HLH is a rare illness and it's an It's like

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Speaker 7: an autoimmune disorder.

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Speaker 1: Ah is that right, doctor Lyell? Auto immune disorder?

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Speaker 8: Yeah, that's exactly right.

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Speaker 1: So she goes in with food poisoning and she dies

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Speaker 1: of auto immune disorder. But wait a minute. Tests were

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Speaker 1: done for HLH at the urging of her husband, who

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Speaker 1: identified her ailment as HLH, and the result was inconclusive. Okay,

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Speaker 1: let's hear more.

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Speaker 2: On August fourteenth, Betty Bowman told him friend that she

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Speaker 2: had a few days off work and was looking forward

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Speaker 2: to hanging out. Betty Bowman and her friend were texting

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Speaker 2: each other in the evening when Betty told him she

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Speaker 2: was a home with Connor Bowman. The next morning, Betty

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Speaker 2: Bowman texted the same friend that she was sick, could

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Speaker 2: not sleep at all because she felt so ill. She

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Speaker 2: told the friend that she thought it was a drink

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Speaker 2: she had the night before that caused her illness because

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Speaker 2: it was mixed in a large smoothie.

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Speaker 1: Okay, right there. I may not know how to pronounce hi.

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Speaker 1: I might not know about pharmacological studies, but I do

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Speaker 1: know when you are given a large smoothie and you

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Speaker 1: suddenly become so sick that you go into the hospital

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Speaker 1: and die. My spidery senses are up. I want to

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Speaker 1: go now to another special guest. Robin Drake is joining US.

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Speaker 1: Behavior expert. Former FBI special agent like del Carson, now lawyer.

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Speaker 1: Drake FBI Counterintelligence Behavioral Analysis Program, author of Sizing People Up,

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Speaker 1: a veteran FBI agent's manual for behavior Prediction, which is incredible.

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Speaker 1: I love the part of that title, Manual for Behavior

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Speaker 1: Prediction is dead on Robin Drake. Robin Drake, so much

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Speaker 1: is happening surrounding the diagnosis of Betty Bowman, and I

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Speaker 1: don't know that we really get a clear cod cause

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Speaker 1: of death on Betty, but so far I don't like

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Speaker 1: that she drink something. And then the last time I

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Speaker 1: had food poisoning, and I rarely get it, I've got

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Speaker 1: a cast iron stomach. I was in Vegas because I

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Speaker 1: was spying on the children. They had a class trip

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Speaker 1: to the Grand Canyon, which was in the eighth grade.

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Speaker 1: Of course, I knew up here that they were going

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Speaker 1: to be fine, but in case anything went wrong, I

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Speaker 1: wanted to be nearby instead of on the other side

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Speaker 1: of the country. So flew to Vegas with David, my husband,

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Speaker 1: And even though they were all out in the Grand Canyon,

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Speaker 1: I just wanted to be near them in case they

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Speaker 1: somehow had a problem. While there, I ate at a

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Speaker 1: sushi restaurant. Never gotten sick off sushi, but that night

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Speaker 1: I was sick, sick, sick in through the next day.

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Speaker 1: But I didn't end up dead in the hospital from

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Speaker 1: bad sushi. I want you to hear this, Robin Drake. Listen.

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Speaker 2: It is stated that Connor Bowman told the Medical Examiner's

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Speaker 2: office that his wife should be cremated immediately and argued

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Speaker 2: that her death was natural. Bowman attempted to cancel the autopsy,

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Speaker 2: claiming Betty Bowman did not want to be a cadaver.

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Speaker 2: During the same time, Connor Bowman was corresponding via email

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Speaker 2: with one of the death investigators with the Medical Examiner's

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Speaker 2: office and asking the investigator if the toxicology analysis being

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Speaker 2: completed would be more thorough than the analysis typically done

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Speaker 2: at the hospital. Bowman also asked for a list of

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Speaker 2: what was specifically going to be tested for.

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Speaker 1: Number One, I see a big fat lie. Just because

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Speaker 1: you have an autopsy doesn't mean you're going to be

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Speaker 1: used as a cadaver a dead body at a medical school.

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Speaker 1: That's not what that means. People have autopsies all the

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Speaker 1: time and they are put to rest in the family plot.

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Speaker 1: So by saying no, no, no, I don't want an autopsy,

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Speaker 1: she never wanted to be a cadaver. Those two said nonsecuatory.

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Speaker 1: They don't follow each other. Okay, right there, Drake, right there,

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Speaker 1: I got a problem. You want to rush somebody to cremation.

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Speaker 1: In my world, that's a red flag. Maybe not in

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Speaker 1: other people's worlds, but in my world that's a problem.

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Speaker 1: And then when you start sniffing around trying to find

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Speaker 1: out what drug panels were run, wh's toxicology panels were

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Speaker 1: run on your dead wife's body in the hospital, And

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Speaker 1: how does that compared to what's going to be done

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Speaker 1: at the medical examiner's office. I definitely smell a rat, Drake.

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Speaker 6: I'm with you, Nanthy.

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Speaker 5: You know, when we're looking at human behavior, we as

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Speaker 5: human beings, we do a really really good job of

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Speaker 5: establishing patterns and routines of the people around.

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Speaker 9: Us, of ourselves.

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Speaker 12: You highlighted yourself and your own food poisoning. You could

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Speaker 12: readily identify what it was because it deviated from what you.

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Speaker 6: Normally have and you had a reaction to it.

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Speaker 10: And so what his behavior was doing was deviating from

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Speaker 10: a pattern, and her death deviated from her entire lifestyle.

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Speaker 6: So her friends and family are really the.

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Speaker 12: Heroes here, as well as the medical examiner that really highlighted.

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Speaker 10: That this is really unusual. And then his behavior is

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Speaker 10: also highly unusual.

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Speaker 6: So there's lots of deviations.

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Speaker 5: And people stood up and said something.

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Speaker 1: I like what you said about deviations, because I rarely

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Speaker 1: wear somewood to dot com get sick. My husband, who

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Speaker 1: is six 'y three, he claims to weigh two hundred

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Speaker 1: and fifty pounds. I don't know if that's real or not.

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Speaker 1: Former football player, blah blah blah. He actually has a

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Speaker 1: very delicate system. He's constantly sniffing and sneezing and claiming

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Speaker 1: hay fever and whatever. He's actually very delicate. So for

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Speaker 1: him to suddenly get a cold and get OTCS over

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Speaker 1: the counter meds, which I detest, that's not unusual for him.

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Speaker 1: So this is a deviation. This woman didn't get sick,

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Speaker 1: she didn't have a delicate stomach or delicate disposition, and

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Speaker 1: so this is very unusual. So let me go to

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Speaker 1: the source. Doctor Lyle d. Burgoon, toxicology expert, president and

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Speaker 1: CEO of Raptor Farm and Talks, a fellow of the

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Speaker 1: Academy of Toxicological Sciences and star of the Critical Science podcast.

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Speaker 1: What about it, Doctor Lyle?

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Speaker 8: You know, it's it's really it's really interesting, because yeah,

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Speaker 8: I agree about you know, this behavior is really strange.

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Speaker 8: Everything here is just really really strange.

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Speaker 1: Talking about the tx labs. Tell me about the talk labs. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: what do you do with the medical exammers. I know

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Speaker 1: that answer, but as compared to what would have been

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Speaker 1: done at the hospital, you know.

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Speaker 4: The difference is going to be.

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Speaker 8: Usually the hospital is looking for, you know, common drugs

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Speaker 8: of abuse, and they're looking for alcohol and things like that.

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Speaker 4: Basically, they want to know what's going.

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Speaker 8: To interfere with any drugs that they might give you

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Speaker 8: in the hospital. When you go to the medical examiner's office,

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Speaker 8: they're going to be running for, you know, again.

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Speaker 4: All the drugs of abuse, but they're also going.

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Speaker 8: To be looking for other things that are typical poisons.

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Speaker 8: They're going to be looking for rare chemicals as well.

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Speaker 4: They might do what we call.

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Speaker 8: An untargeted analysis. They might pay a lab to just say,

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Speaker 8: you know, just go out and try to find anything

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Speaker 8: that's in this blood that looks weird.

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Speaker 9: You know.

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Speaker 8: Sometimes they'll do that, and that's you know, it's pretty

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Speaker 8: common because they're trying to figure out why did this

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Speaker 8: person die. Is there something in their blood? You know,

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Speaker 8: did they eat something that wasn't right?

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Speaker 4: And so that's that's going to.

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Speaker 8: Be the biggest difference.

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Speaker 1: So Charles Kelly joining me, very well known investigative reporter

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Speaker 1: and anchor kt TC News Charles how quickly after Betty

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Speaker 1: dies unexpectedly in the hospital, did the husband want a

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Speaker 1: sudden cremation?

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Speaker 7: They said it was it was almost immediately.

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Speaker 1: Uh huh. The last thing on my mind when I

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Speaker 1: was in the room when my dad passed away, was oh, dear,

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Speaker 1: let me set up the funeral. What time should it be?

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Speaker 1: What day should it be? Who's going to write the

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Speaker 1: O bit? I can't even think about.

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Speaker 3: That.

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Speaker 1: I could think about was him and he wasn't going

434
00:25:12,840 --> 00:25:16,439
Speaker 1: to be with me anymore. Same thing with Keith. And

435
00:25:16,520 --> 00:25:19,800
Speaker 1: this guy's like got a head of steam for a cremation. Okay,

436
00:25:19,880 --> 00:25:23,680
Speaker 1: Dale Carson, I can't believe you break in on the toxicologist,

437
00:25:24,160 --> 00:25:26,960
Speaker 1: but now I'm getting some circumstantial evidence and you suddenly

438
00:25:27,200 --> 00:25:27,880
Speaker 1: go quiet.

439
00:25:28,200 --> 00:25:30,680
Speaker 13: Well, I'm just you know, when you ask.

440
00:25:30,600 --> 00:25:34,679
Speaker 9: Somebody to cremate immediately, that's the first red flag.

441
00:25:34,760 --> 00:25:39,399
Speaker 11: The second is the obit that explains precisely what killed

442
00:25:39,400 --> 00:25:44,560
Speaker 11: the person in some kind of medical ease, and that's

443
00:25:44,640 --> 00:25:45,879
Speaker 11: extremely unusual.

444
00:25:45,960 --> 00:25:48,600
Speaker 9: So the red flag start piling up.

445
00:25:48,800 --> 00:25:50,600
Speaker 6: I'm going to jump in on Dale now too.

446
00:25:50,640 --> 00:25:51,760
Speaker 1: Is that it is Robin.

447
00:25:52,480 --> 00:25:55,199
Speaker 5: I'm literally staring at the old bit too. I'm with

448
00:25:55,280 --> 00:25:57,639
Speaker 5: Dale in it. This o bit really stuck out to me.

449
00:25:57,920 --> 00:26:00,880
Speaker 1: Please tell me what about it is really sticking out

450
00:26:00,920 --> 00:26:02,800
Speaker 1: to you. And I also want to talk to somebody

451
00:26:02,880 --> 00:26:08,560
Speaker 1: about cremation because that gets rid of all your evidence

452
00:26:08,640 --> 00:26:10,520
Speaker 1: if you don't have the right labs.

453
00:26:10,600 --> 00:26:15,800
Speaker 13: It's over in the obit, it says, following a sudden

454
00:26:15,960 --> 00:26:20,720
Speaker 13: onset of auto immune and infectious illness.

455
00:26:21,119 --> 00:26:22,320
Speaker 6: Yep, controlling the narrative.

456
00:26:23,440 --> 00:26:26,680
Speaker 1: Come on, you're so right, controlling the narrative.

457
00:26:27,119 --> 00:26:30,200
Speaker 6: And so it's interesting here Nancy with this obit, even

458
00:26:30,200 --> 00:26:32,240
Speaker 6: when because he wrote the o bit, it says it

459
00:26:32,280 --> 00:26:35,480
Speaker 6: in some of the documents and so down further, he

460
00:26:35,560 --> 00:26:39,880
Speaker 6: actually she is survived by her fur baby, Sir Crumpet,

461
00:26:39,920 --> 00:26:43,080
Speaker 6: her husband Connor, not like loving husband or anything like that,

462
00:26:43,119 --> 00:26:45,560
Speaker 6: and so many special friends and loved ones. So if

463
00:26:45,600 --> 00:26:48,960
Speaker 6: he wrote it, he actually omitted the mother who she

464
00:26:49,040 --> 00:26:52,119
Speaker 6: actually had a very close relationship with. So it's a

465
00:26:52,359 --> 00:26:54,160
Speaker 6: very stale obit.

466
00:26:54,200 --> 00:26:57,000
Speaker 1: He put in the dog first, yeah, lifted the dog first.

467
00:26:57,040 --> 00:27:00,000
Speaker 12: And also all the condolences are a lot more heartfelt

468
00:27:00,080 --> 00:27:01,000
Speaker 12: than the actual little bit.

469
00:27:01,040 --> 00:27:04,200
Speaker 1: Who was this spaking? Is that? Robin Drake, Robin Drake,

470
00:27:04,720 --> 00:27:08,560
Speaker 1: You're right, I hear Karen start jumping Karen Well Nancy.

471
00:27:09,119 --> 00:27:12,120
Speaker 3: In addition to the fact that this OVID is so bizarre,

472
00:27:12,800 --> 00:27:15,360
Speaker 3: none of her friends or family knew that she had

473
00:27:15,400 --> 00:27:18,920
Speaker 3: this rare disease that he decides he's going to list

474
00:27:19,400 --> 00:27:24,440
Speaker 3: this autoimmune disease, and so right away people were suspicious

475
00:27:24,680 --> 00:27:26,159
Speaker 3: because it didn't make any sense.

476
00:27:26,200 --> 00:27:29,879
Speaker 1: I'm sure the mom is like, what auto I mean, Alman,

477
00:27:30,000 --> 00:27:32,840
Speaker 1: what are they even talking about? Charles Kelly, tell me

478
00:27:32,880 --> 00:27:34,280
Speaker 1: some more about her a bit place.

479
00:27:34,440 --> 00:27:36,679
Speaker 7: Yeah, So I actually spoke with some of her close

480
00:27:36,760 --> 00:27:40,000
Speaker 7: friends and previous colleagues and asked them if they thought

481
00:27:40,000 --> 00:27:42,800
Speaker 7: it was suspicious. You know, they said, she seems very

482
00:27:42,840 --> 00:27:45,760
Speaker 7: healthy from what they knew, but they just they didn't

483
00:27:45,760 --> 00:27:47,960
Speaker 7: really question it because I think they're in so much shock.

484
00:27:48,400 --> 00:27:51,480
Speaker 7: And they said that they didn't talk deep enough about

485
00:27:51,520 --> 00:27:53,520
Speaker 7: their health issues that they wouldn't have known if she

486
00:27:53,600 --> 00:27:56,719
Speaker 7: had this autoimmune disorder. But to them, and there are

487
00:27:56,720 --> 00:28:00,119
Speaker 7: other doctors too, saying she was a healthy person overall,

488
00:28:00,160 --> 00:28:03,200
Speaker 7: always living life to its fullest. So I also think

489
00:28:03,280 --> 00:28:06,240
Speaker 7: what's interesting is one of the best friend thoughs speaking

490
00:28:06,280 --> 00:28:08,560
Speaker 7: to told me that she has a very close sister

491
00:28:09,280 --> 00:28:11,920
Speaker 7: and she's not listed in the obituary at all as well.

492
00:28:12,000 --> 00:28:16,280
Speaker 1: Now I'm looking at the photo that was posted on

493
00:28:16,440 --> 00:28:19,120
Speaker 1: her online a bit. It's of her and a pair

494
00:28:19,119 --> 00:28:23,760
Speaker 1: of cutoffs. The ocean is behind her and she's looking

495
00:28:23,800 --> 00:28:28,560
Speaker 1: up over her shoulder lovingly at her husband. I'm rereading

496
00:28:28,880 --> 00:28:32,040
Speaker 1: the oh bit, and you're absolutely correct. Survived by her

497
00:28:32,080 --> 00:28:37,760
Speaker 1: fur baby, Sir Crumpet, the second of Mulberry, her husband Connor,

498
00:28:37,800 --> 00:28:41,320
Speaker 1: and so many special friends and loved ones, not even

499
00:28:41,440 --> 00:28:47,840
Speaker 1: mentioning her actual family, her blood relatives. You know, I'm curious,

500
00:28:48,080 --> 00:28:51,080
Speaker 1: Charles Kelly, did he already have the oh bit written?

501
00:28:51,440 --> 00:28:54,480
Speaker 7: That is not confirmed. We are not sure if he

502
00:28:54,560 --> 00:28:57,240
Speaker 7: had that already prepared, but we know that in the

503
00:28:57,320 --> 00:28:58,520
Speaker 7: reports that he wrote it.

504
00:28:58,680 --> 00:29:00,520
Speaker 1: I remember that was one of the worst. Mine was

505
00:29:00,600 --> 00:29:03,920
Speaker 1: in my wife sitting around the kitchen table with my

506
00:29:04,000 --> 00:29:07,320
Speaker 1: brother and sister trying to write my dad's a bit. Guys,

507
00:29:07,480 --> 00:29:08,520
Speaker 1: what more do we not listen?

508
00:29:08,640 --> 00:29:12,000
Speaker 2: Friends of Betty Bowman began reaching out to investigators. An

509
00:29:12,040 --> 00:29:14,960
Speaker 2: adult female friend of Betty Bowman told Detective Kendrick of

510
00:29:15,000 --> 00:29:18,480
Speaker 2: the Rochester Police Department that she had texted with Betty

511
00:29:18,520 --> 00:29:21,479
Speaker 2: Bowman on August sixteenth, and that Bowman told her she

512
00:29:21,560 --> 00:29:23,760
Speaker 2: was sick and was at the hospital and things were

513
00:29:23,760 --> 00:29:26,800
Speaker 2: going downhill. The friend told the detective that Betty Bowman

514
00:29:26,880 --> 00:29:30,120
Speaker 2: was a healthy person. According to the criminal complain, the

515
00:29:30,200 --> 00:29:33,640
Speaker 2: friend also told the detective that Connor Bowman had attended

516
00:29:33,640 --> 00:29:37,840
Speaker 2: pharmacy school, worked in poison controling Kansas, and was currently

517
00:29:37,840 --> 00:29:41,160
Speaker 2: in medical school. Betty Bowman had told others that Connor

518
00:29:41,200 --> 00:29:44,040
Speaker 2: Bowman was so much in debt that they kept separate

519
00:29:44,040 --> 00:29:47,320
Speaker 2: bank accounts. Connor Bowman told a female friend that he

520
00:29:47,440 --> 00:29:49,800
Speaker 2: was going to get five hundred thousand dollars in life

521
00:29:49,800 --> 00:29:53,120
Speaker 2: insurance as a result of Betty Bowman's death. Bowman also

522
00:29:53,160 --> 00:29:56,280
Speaker 2: told her that Betty Bowman was suffering from HLH.

523
00:29:56,120 --> 00:30:00,960
Speaker 1: Five hundred thousand dollars. Wait a minute, Charles Ky, investigative

524
00:30:00,960 --> 00:30:04,360
Speaker 1: reporter and anchor KTTC. Why was he in debt.

525
00:30:04,160 --> 00:30:07,280
Speaker 7: From his pharmacy school and from those here's a school

526
00:30:07,320 --> 00:30:10,280
Speaker 7: the money racked up, But it's interesting that you would

527
00:30:10,360 --> 00:30:13,640
Speaker 7: talk about the life insurance way that he's getting after

528
00:30:14,160 --> 00:30:17,880
Speaker 7: his wife has just passed away unexpectedly.

529
00:30:17,280 --> 00:30:20,760
Speaker 1: Five hundred thousand dollars and the only debt was from school.

530
00:30:21,200 --> 00:30:24,440
Speaker 7: I'm not sure from the report if there was more

531
00:30:24,480 --> 00:30:27,000
Speaker 7: to it than just his loans from school, or if

532
00:30:27,040 --> 00:30:29,880
Speaker 7: there was other reasons behind that.

533
00:30:30,120 --> 00:30:31,400
Speaker 1: There's got to be more, and I'll tell you why.

534
00:30:31,440 --> 00:30:35,040
Speaker 1: I think there's more. I had so much debt. I

535
00:30:35,080 --> 00:30:39,120
Speaker 1: went to law school on student loans. It took me

536
00:30:39,200 --> 00:30:41,640
Speaker 1: ten years to pay him off. I wrote the check

537
00:30:42,080 --> 00:30:45,160
Speaker 1: twelve times a year for ten years, and I remember

538
00:30:45,200 --> 00:30:48,000
Speaker 1: the amount one hundred and seventy seven dollars and eleven cents.

539
00:30:48,360 --> 00:30:50,200
Speaker 1: In fact, I didn't even know the loan and ended.

540
00:30:50,440 --> 00:30:52,200
Speaker 1: And I sent one check too many and they sent

541
00:30:52,200 --> 00:30:55,600
Speaker 1: it back to me. So he could easily have done

542
00:30:55,640 --> 00:31:01,240
Speaker 1: this through loans. Did he have a double life? Why

543
00:31:01,240 --> 00:31:05,040
Speaker 1: did he have so much debt that he was bragging

544
00:31:06,680 --> 00:31:10,040
Speaker 1: about a five hundred thousand dollars life insurance policy? And

545
00:31:10,040 --> 00:31:13,680
Speaker 1: I'm curious when did he take that out? But there's more. Listen.

546
00:31:13,800 --> 00:31:16,720
Speaker 2: The University of Kansas was able to locate Internet searches

547
00:31:16,760 --> 00:31:20,080
Speaker 2: conducted by Bowman on their device and network. Kendrick was

548
00:31:20,120 --> 00:31:24,680
Speaker 2: told that Connor Bowman was researching cal caisine cole cassine

549
00:31:24,760 --> 00:31:27,760
Speaker 2: is a drug used to treat gout. During his time

550
00:31:27,800 --> 00:31:31,000
Speaker 2: answering calls on the poison line, Bowman had not received

551
00:31:31,080 --> 00:31:34,440
Speaker 2: any calls regarding col caisine. Neither had any other employees

552
00:31:34,480 --> 00:31:36,640
Speaker 2: answering calls on the poison line, so.

553
00:31:36,560 --> 00:31:41,360
Speaker 1: He actually manned the poison line while he was in

554
00:31:41,440 --> 00:31:59,400
Speaker 1: med school at Poison Control Crime Stories with Nancy Grace

555
00:32:00,960 --> 00:32:06,120
Speaker 1: doctor Lyle Burgin, toxicology expert. What is cole casine and

556
00:32:07,520 --> 00:32:11,200
Speaker 1: is that a normal job for someone in medical school

557
00:32:11,520 --> 00:32:12,960
Speaker 1: to work at poison Control?

558
00:32:13,400 --> 00:32:16,600
Speaker 8: So I answered the second question first, it's not. It's

559
00:32:16,640 --> 00:32:21,800
Speaker 8: not completely unusual. Different states have different rules about who

560
00:32:21,840 --> 00:32:24,080
Speaker 8: can work as a poison specialist.

561
00:32:24,960 --> 00:32:26,720
Speaker 4: Typically you have to be someone.

562
00:32:26,520 --> 00:32:30,000
Speaker 8: Who's licensed, so he may have been a pharmacy tech.

563
00:32:30,600 --> 00:32:33,560
Speaker 8: That's actually a pretty common thing for people who are

564
00:32:33,800 --> 00:32:34,560
Speaker 8: aspiring to go.

565
00:32:34,480 --> 00:32:35,160
Speaker 4: To medical schools.

566
00:32:35,200 --> 00:32:38,640
Speaker 8: They become pharmacy techs or they become e mts.

567
00:32:38,640 --> 00:32:41,240
Speaker 4: And then if they have that kind of background, they can.

568
00:32:41,160 --> 00:32:45,120
Speaker 8: Sometimes work as a poison specialist. But to your your

569
00:32:45,160 --> 00:32:48,400
Speaker 8: first question, colt scene is an interesting chemical. It's a

570
00:32:49,520 --> 00:32:54,520
Speaker 8: it's a plan drived drug. It's been around for a

571
00:32:54,560 --> 00:32:59,560
Speaker 8: long time. It's considered one of the more ancient drugs, and.

572
00:32:59,560 --> 00:33:02,200
Speaker 4: It's been use to treat gout for a very long time.

573
00:33:03,400 --> 00:33:07,000
Speaker 8: What's interesting about culture sines, though, is how it works,

574
00:33:07,000 --> 00:33:10,240
Speaker 8: it actually gets into your cells. In our cells, we

575
00:33:10,320 --> 00:33:15,200
Speaker 8: have like thingums as rails, like train rails, So.

576
00:33:15,120 --> 00:33:16,920
Speaker 4: We have these little railways, and one of them is

577
00:33:16,920 --> 00:33:18,560
Speaker 4: called tubulin, and.

578
00:33:18,640 --> 00:33:21,320
Speaker 8: Tubulin moves proteins around from one side of the cell

579
00:33:21,400 --> 00:33:24,160
Speaker 8: to the other. But it also helps cells move. So

580
00:33:24,240 --> 00:33:28,240
Speaker 8: immune cells actually crawl through your body. It's kind of neat,

581
00:33:29,320 --> 00:33:31,800
Speaker 8: and once they get into an organ, they're just crawling around. Well,

582
00:33:31,840 --> 00:33:35,960
Speaker 8: if you if you take culture sine, that railway stops,

583
00:33:36,440 --> 00:33:39,000
Speaker 8: and so now there's no way for proteins to move

584
00:33:39,040 --> 00:33:42,040
Speaker 8: across the cell. But the cell itself also can't move.

585
00:33:42,720 --> 00:33:48,360
Speaker 8: And so it also for cell division. Tissues like our intestines,

586
00:33:48,520 --> 00:33:51,480
Speaker 8: our mouth, you know, the the mucous lining of our mouth,

587
00:33:51,920 --> 00:33:54,880
Speaker 8: our nose and stuff like that. Those those mucus linings

588
00:33:54,880 --> 00:33:59,520
Speaker 8: are constantly being replenished. But if you take culture sine,

589
00:33:59,680 --> 00:34:04,240
Speaker 8: it's stop cell divisions. So your cell stop dividing, and.

590
00:34:04,120 --> 00:34:05,720
Speaker 4: Then you don't replenish these things.

591
00:34:05,720 --> 00:34:08,200
Speaker 8: And so that's actually what gives you like the GI distress,

592
00:34:08,239 --> 00:34:10,160
Speaker 8: the gas intestinal distress, stuff like that.

593
00:34:10,239 --> 00:34:13,120
Speaker 1: Interesting that you said it was an ancient drug. It's

594
00:34:13,120 --> 00:34:17,160
Speaker 1: spin around forever. I wonder if that is part of

595
00:34:17,200 --> 00:34:20,640
Speaker 1: the labs, the standard labs that are run at the

596
00:34:20,680 --> 00:34:24,000
Speaker 1: medical examiners and the hospital. Are they or are they not?

597
00:34:24,800 --> 00:34:27,920
Speaker 4: Dot Jlyle It's it's not entirely standard to look.

598
00:34:27,800 --> 00:34:28,560
Speaker 9: For culture seine.

599
00:34:29,239 --> 00:34:33,080
Speaker 8: You would you would probably have to have some suspicion,

600
00:34:33,400 --> 00:34:36,680
Speaker 8: like you know, somebody's coming in for food poisoning and

601
00:34:36,719 --> 00:34:39,480
Speaker 8: then they die. You know you're going to be saying, well, okay,

602
00:34:39,560 --> 00:34:41,640
Speaker 8: what drugs are going to cause you to have some

603
00:34:41,719 --> 00:34:44,479
Speaker 8: kind of GI distress. It's not a really large list.

604
00:34:45,239 --> 00:34:47,240
Speaker 8: You're anti cancer, drugs and culture seine.

605
00:34:47,520 --> 00:34:53,840
Speaker 1: Someone may know the hospital, neither hospital nor may is

606
00:34:53,880 --> 00:34:58,600
Speaker 1: going to look for culture seine in their standard lab work. Okay,

607
00:34:58,640 --> 00:35:01,640
Speaker 1: but then there's more. Listen.

608
00:35:01,880 --> 00:35:05,200
Speaker 2: Some of Connor Bowman's Internet searches seemed really out of place.

609
00:35:05,719 --> 00:35:08,640
Speaker 2: Police found Internet searches about the drug cul cauisine and

610
00:35:08,840 --> 00:35:11,759
Speaker 2: determining what a lethal dose would be by entering his

611
00:35:11,800 --> 00:35:15,359
Speaker 2: wife's weight. The fact that Bowman talked to death investigators

612
00:35:15,360 --> 00:35:18,160
Speaker 2: about the toxicology test being done on his wife seemed

613
00:35:18,160 --> 00:35:21,440
Speaker 2: out of place as well. The drug he researched, caul caussine,

614
00:35:21,480 --> 00:35:24,680
Speaker 2: was listed on the autopsy report as the cause of death.

615
00:35:25,120 --> 00:35:27,120
Speaker 2: The toxic effects of caul cassine.

616
00:35:27,280 --> 00:35:33,160
Speaker 1: Okay, Charles Kelly, do I understand this correctly? Her husband,

617
00:35:33,400 --> 00:35:40,920
Speaker 1: Connor Bowman research cultuisine and how much as it related

618
00:35:40,960 --> 00:35:42,400
Speaker 1: to her body weight?

619
00:35:42,640 --> 00:35:47,319
Speaker 7: Yes, he even was converting her body weight to kilogram

620
00:35:47,680 --> 00:35:53,040
Speaker 7: and multiplying that in order to measure out the dose

621
00:35:53,000 --> 00:35:57,640
Speaker 7: sit rate in milligrams per kilogram for cultussine.

622
00:35:57,840 --> 00:36:02,960
Speaker 1: Okay, right there, Carson? What more do I need to

623
00:36:03,000 --> 00:36:05,200
Speaker 1: take this to a grand jury? Just tell me? Do

624
00:36:05,239 --> 00:36:06,440
Speaker 1: I need anything else?

625
00:36:06,719 --> 00:36:07,799
Speaker 9: You need a coele?

626
00:36:09,760 --> 00:36:13,400
Speaker 1: Okay? What you mean? I've got a dead body?

627
00:36:14,600 --> 00:36:15,160
Speaker 9: There you go.

628
00:36:15,320 --> 00:36:17,120
Speaker 1: I've got a dead body. She's dead. How do you

629
00:36:17,120 --> 00:36:20,080
Speaker 1: think she's not dead? She's dead. We've been talking about it.

630
00:36:20,680 --> 00:36:22,480
Speaker 9: I was just saying, you do have that?

631
00:36:23,120 --> 00:36:26,080
Speaker 1: Okay. My question to you was what else do I need?

632
00:36:26,160 --> 00:36:27,480
Speaker 1: Do I need anything else?

633
00:36:27,760 --> 00:36:28,879
Speaker 9: You need a confession?

634
00:36:29,120 --> 00:36:32,040
Speaker 1: Don't need a confession? Good gravy man? Where did you

635
00:36:32,080 --> 00:36:35,120
Speaker 1: go to law school? Tell Carson, I've prosecuted in many

636
00:36:35,160 --> 00:36:38,040
Speaker 1: cases without a confession. I don't expect the defendant just

637
00:36:38,120 --> 00:36:40,239
Speaker 1: lay down and let me drive over him. Am I

638
00:36:40,320 --> 00:36:44,120
Speaker 1: giving me a confession? Man? I need to school you.

639
00:36:44,320 --> 00:36:45,040
Speaker 1: Who's jumping in?

640
00:36:45,160 --> 00:36:45,279
Speaker 13: Is that?

641
00:36:45,360 --> 00:36:46,560
Speaker 1: Karen Stark yes, it.

642
00:36:46,640 --> 00:36:49,239
Speaker 3: Is, because the concession is if you look at his

643
00:36:49,320 --> 00:36:53,600
Speaker 3: Internet searches, there's in some ways that's him speaking.

644
00:36:53,800 --> 00:36:56,520
Speaker 1: How can some smart people do such stupid things like

645
00:36:56,680 --> 00:37:00,560
Speaker 1: leave a trail a mile wide? Well, okay, just that,

646
00:37:00,640 --> 00:37:03,200
Speaker 1: but I can tell you the day David Eugene, Yes

647
00:37:03,239 --> 00:37:09,400
Speaker 1: that's his middle name. Lynch looks ut VPN a private browser?

648
00:37:10,040 --> 00:37:13,520
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, fur is gonna fly listen.

649
00:37:13,719 --> 00:37:18,040
Speaker 2: Connor Bowman also accessed a search for the corrected question

650
00:37:18,200 --> 00:37:22,680
Speaker 2: from VPN to VPN. VPNs are secure methods of web

651
00:37:22,760 --> 00:37:25,000
Speaker 2: browsing and can be used by those who are trying

652
00:37:25,040 --> 00:37:28,400
Speaker 2: to hide their online activity from law enforcement. Bowman was

653
00:37:28,480 --> 00:37:32,319
Speaker 2: also searching sodium nitrate. Sodium nitrate can be used to

654
00:37:32,360 --> 00:37:35,480
Speaker 2: limit oxygen transport through the body. There was then a

655
00:37:35,480 --> 00:37:39,520
Speaker 2: Google shop page for various vendors selling sodium nitrate.

656
00:37:39,719 --> 00:37:46,480
Speaker 1: Okay, a Google shop page Charles Kelly for sodium nitrate.

657
00:37:46,600 --> 00:37:47,400
Speaker 1: Is that correct?

658
00:37:47,640 --> 00:37:48,040
Speaker 9: Yes?

659
00:37:48,200 --> 00:37:51,520
Speaker 7: That is exactly what a stated in the criminal complaint.

660
00:37:50,800 --> 00:37:53,720
Speaker 1: Doctor Lyell Bragoon. What is sodium nitrate?

661
00:37:53,920 --> 00:37:57,800
Speaker 8: Sodium nitrate is a chemical. It's commonly found in ferglicers. Actually,

662
00:37:58,280 --> 00:37:59,839
Speaker 8: and it's extremely water.

663
00:38:00,520 --> 00:38:02,799
Speaker 1: What do you mean? It's extremely water soluble and mean

664
00:38:02,880 --> 00:38:05,279
Speaker 1: like you could put it in a big fat slurpee.

665
00:38:05,480 --> 00:38:06,080
Speaker 9: Yep, you could.

666
00:38:06,160 --> 00:38:08,360
Speaker 8: You could put in a big flat fat slurpy. You

667
00:38:08,360 --> 00:38:11,000
Speaker 8: could put in the you know, whatever it is that

668
00:38:11,040 --> 00:38:14,280
Speaker 8: you want to drink it, It'll go in really easily.

669
00:38:14,360 --> 00:38:16,399
Speaker 1: I'll tell you what. The day that I catch David

670
00:38:16,480 --> 00:38:19,200
Speaker 1: Lynch looking up sodium nitrate is to day I call

671
00:38:19,280 --> 00:38:24,760
Speaker 1: a divorce lawyer. Okay, just the cherry on top. Listen.

672
00:38:24,920 --> 00:38:27,840
Speaker 2: The medical examiner determined the cause of death of thirty

673
00:38:27,840 --> 00:38:31,120
Speaker 2: two year old Betty Bowman to be toxic effects of

674
00:38:31,239 --> 00:38:35,719
Speaker 2: col cauisine and the manner of death homicide. Law enforcement

675
00:38:35,840 --> 00:38:40,240
Speaker 2: executed another search warrant on Connor Bowman's residence. Officers located

676
00:38:40,239 --> 00:38:43,759
Speaker 2: a receipt for a bank deposit of four hundred and

677
00:38:43,800 --> 00:38:45,080
Speaker 2: fifty thousand dollars.

678
00:38:45,200 --> 00:38:48,360
Speaker 1: You know, Robin Drink joining me behavior expert, former FBI

679
00:38:48,480 --> 00:38:54,080
Speaker 1: Special Agent in Chief of FBI Counter Intelligence Behavioral Analysis Program.

680
00:38:54,760 --> 00:38:58,359
Speaker 1: I have found, and I don't have the right psychological

681
00:38:58,480 --> 00:39:02,279
Speaker 1: terms for it, or psychiatric terms, that people that kill

682
00:39:02,400 --> 00:39:08,280
Speaker 1: for money for a pecuniary gain are a whole different animal.

683
00:39:09,440 --> 00:39:14,000
Speaker 1: There's just a whole different psychopathy in planning a murder.

684
00:39:14,080 --> 00:39:14,720
Speaker 1: For money.

685
00:39:14,880 --> 00:39:19,320
Speaker 5: Yeah, and he's fitting the pattern of people that poison

686
00:39:20,040 --> 00:39:21,600
Speaker 5: people for money for gain.

687
00:39:22,239 --> 00:39:25,120
Speaker 12: He's got a sense of an adequacy, most likely spoiled,

688
00:39:25,160 --> 00:39:25,840
Speaker 12: self centered.

689
00:39:26,680 --> 00:39:29,720
Speaker 5: It's a rare form of murder, one of the rarest,

690
00:39:29,920 --> 00:39:31,600
Speaker 5: But it fits a pattern.

691
00:39:31,920 --> 00:39:34,239
Speaker 6: When we're talking about patterns of behavior like we have been.

692
00:39:34,320 --> 00:39:39,080
Speaker 5: It fits a pattern from his background, from his pharmacy side,

693
00:39:39,239 --> 00:39:40,040
Speaker 5: from working.

694
00:39:39,800 --> 00:39:40,640
Speaker 11: At the Mayo clinic.

695
00:39:40,719 --> 00:39:43,400
Speaker 5: And now we see a pattern behavior of internet searches.

696
00:39:43,800 --> 00:39:46,160
Speaker 5: And when you combine that altogether with trying to control

697
00:39:46,200 --> 00:39:48,440
Speaker 5: a narrative, trying to dispose of a body before they

698
00:39:48,480 --> 00:39:52,080
Speaker 5: can be toxicology, it's all fitting what we're observing.

699
00:39:52,120 --> 00:39:53,759
Speaker 6: Man, it's a sad, tragic thing.

700
00:39:53,920 --> 00:39:58,480
Speaker 1: Charles Kelly KTTC. Is it true? I learned this according

701
00:39:58,480 --> 00:40:03,040
Speaker 1: to friends, that divorce was imminent. Why were they getting

702
00:40:03,080 --> 00:40:04,239
Speaker 1: a divorce? Do we know?

703
00:40:04,600 --> 00:40:08,440
Speaker 7: All we know is that they were having marital issues,

704
00:40:08,560 --> 00:40:12,879
Speaker 7: and we're talking about divorce, calling fidelity and a deterring relationship.

705
00:40:12,960 --> 00:40:15,440
Speaker 7: That was from a call that was given to the

706
00:40:15,640 --> 00:40:19,279
Speaker 7: Medical Examiner's office from a female that's identified in the

707
00:40:19,320 --> 00:40:20,040
Speaker 7: police reports.

708
00:40:20,320 --> 00:40:22,799
Speaker 1: So are there claims of infidelity? Is that what you

709
00:40:22,840 --> 00:40:23,200
Speaker 1: just said?

710
00:40:23,360 --> 00:40:27,120
Speaker 7: Yes, that's what The female who called the Medical Examiner's

711
00:40:27,120 --> 00:40:27,960
Speaker 7: office said.

712
00:40:27,840 --> 00:40:31,440
Speaker 1: Who allegedly was cheating or were they both? That is unknown.

713
00:40:31,600 --> 00:40:35,319
Speaker 11: Well, it's pretty clear that it was her with a

714
00:40:35,360 --> 00:40:38,280
Speaker 11: guy that was texting back and forth with her during

715
00:40:38,960 --> 00:40:41,400
Speaker 11: the composed divorce.

716
00:40:41,760 --> 00:40:44,160
Speaker 1: Oh, I'm in chart because that guy's texting me all

717
00:40:44,200 --> 00:40:48,360
Speaker 1: the time, particularly Wilson, our managing editor at Crime Online.

718
00:40:48,400 --> 00:40:52,000
Speaker 1: Should we tell his wife? Let's don't, just because Del

719
00:40:52,080 --> 00:40:55,680
Speaker 1: Carson twenty twenty three, Just because you're texting with a

720
00:40:55,760 --> 00:40:58,040
Speaker 1: male colleague does not mean you're in an affair.

721
00:40:58,200 --> 00:41:00,560
Speaker 9: I don't think it was a colleague, and it was little.

722
00:41:00,320 --> 00:41:04,000
Speaker 1: More than Jackie is wildly waving a note at me.

723
00:41:04,160 --> 00:41:06,840
Speaker 1: Connor was cheating. It was him. How do we know

724
00:41:06,920 --> 00:41:10,000
Speaker 1: Connor was cheating? You said, Connor is cheating the friend

725
00:41:10,080 --> 00:41:12,920
Speaker 1: the friends say, you know what, Dale Carson, I am

726
00:41:13,000 --> 00:41:15,600
Speaker 1: taking you to school, young man. I am taking you

727
00:41:15,680 --> 00:41:20,120
Speaker 1: to school. So where does the case stand right now?

728
00:41:20,680 --> 00:41:24,920
Speaker 1: Let me post that to our friend at KTTC, Charles Kelly.

729
00:41:25,000 --> 00:41:26,360
Speaker 1: What's happening right now?

730
00:41:26,520 --> 00:41:30,200
Speaker 7: Right now? The Oldsaid County attorney that I spoke with,

731
00:41:30,600 --> 00:41:36,320
Speaker 7: they are currently charging him with second degree murder with intent,

732
00:41:37,200 --> 00:41:40,880
Speaker 7: he said, in order for them to charge for first

733
00:41:40,920 --> 00:41:44,959
Speaker 7: degree premeditated, they would have to go to a grand jury.

734
00:41:45,000 --> 00:41:47,160
Speaker 7: If they decide that within a fourteen day period.

735
00:41:47,320 --> 00:41:49,680
Speaker 1: Boohoo. What's the problem with going to a grand jury?

736
00:41:49,719 --> 00:41:52,480
Speaker 1: It takes about five minutes. This needs to be a

737
00:41:52,520 --> 00:41:57,000
Speaker 1: death penalty case. Well, I mean, seriously, the man plans

738
00:41:57,160 --> 00:42:02,799
Speaker 1: out a very painful death for his wife while he's

739
00:42:02,840 --> 00:42:08,080
Speaker 1: allegedly having an affair, and that she rise in pain,

740
00:42:08,719 --> 00:42:12,799
Speaker 1: has dead necrotic tissue in her colon, has to have

741
00:42:12,840 --> 00:42:18,000
Speaker 1: part of her colon removed, otherwise completely healthy, while he's

742
00:42:18,200 --> 00:42:24,160
Speaker 1: looking up doubt medication online and buying sodium nitrate. If

743
00:42:24,200 --> 00:42:27,879
Speaker 1: this is not a death penalty case, what is? Who

744
00:42:27,920 --> 00:42:31,680
Speaker 1: made that decision? Charles? Who made the decision? Is this

745
00:42:31,760 --> 00:42:32,759
Speaker 1: going to be a DP or not?

746
00:42:33,520 --> 00:42:35,920
Speaker 7: We are not sure at the moment because of the

747
00:42:35,960 --> 00:42:39,000
Speaker 7: attorney's office will decide if they're going to go first three.

748
00:42:39,040 --> 00:42:41,239
Speaker 7: But they're just making sure if they do that, they

749
00:42:41,239 --> 00:42:43,480
Speaker 7: have all their ducks and rows so they can prove

750
00:42:43,560 --> 00:42:44,680
Speaker 7: that it was premeditated.

751
00:42:44,760 --> 00:42:46,440
Speaker 9: Pretty clearly premeditated.

752
00:42:46,560 --> 00:42:48,040
Speaker 1: Yes, who's this stage.

753
00:42:50,120 --> 00:42:50,319
Speaker 9: There?

754
00:42:50,880 --> 00:42:54,520
Speaker 1: I mean, you're right, you've got all the internet searches. Gee,

755
00:42:54,560 --> 00:42:57,239
Speaker 1: how do I kill my wife with culture, chine or

756
00:42:57,239 --> 00:43:01,680
Speaker 1: whatever it is, and then rights crap. Oh bit to boot,

757
00:43:01,800 --> 00:43:07,000
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, we wait as justice and false. Goodbye friend,