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Speaker 1: Hi guys, Nancy Grace. Here, at a time when we

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Speaker 1: take advantage of you, your parents, your grandparents, and people

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Speaker 1: for you for free. Goodbye, friend, keep the faith. How

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Speaker 1: does a renowned and beloved chef end up murdered? How

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Speaker 1: does that happen? Who was his enemy? Another chef? A

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Speaker 1: displeased employee? Who I Meancy Grace? Crime Stories with Nancy Grace?

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Speaker 1: Who would murder an Oregon chef? I'm Nancy Grace. This

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Speaker 1: is Crime Stories. Thank you for being with us here

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Speaker 1: at Fox Nation in series XM one eleven. Take a

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Speaker 1: listen now to our friends. This is the Oregon Culinary Institute,

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Speaker 1: he would say. In the last thirty five years, I've

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Speaker 1: had about one hundred and fifty vegetable gardens. That's by

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Speaker 1: pineapple chutney, peach chutney, rubar ketchup. Today, I feel if

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Speaker 1: people work with more ingredients, they have a fuller understanding

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Speaker 1: of what to do with them. That's a secret. That's

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Speaker 1: a very secret process. One cuisine for the rest of

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Speaker 1: my life. Would I would opt for time cuisine? I

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Speaker 1: think I would look so for I think the quay

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Speaker 1: who was great on that they needed something deciphered, writer said,

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Speaker 1: the last wasn't the ReBs. I'd like to see this

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Speaker 1: students compete and the pure pressure that comes along from

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Speaker 1: being in a kitchen. I think we have done a

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Speaker 1: kind of a fun job of translating into the classroom,

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Speaker 1: He's going to look more professional. You got that diameter

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Speaker 1: of chicken breast. His big loves were food cooking, his wife,

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Speaker 1: the romance novelist. So how does he end up? Dad?

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Speaker 1: With me an all star panel to break it down

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Speaker 1: and put it back together again? Joining me. Daryl Cohen,

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Speaker 1: former felony prosecutor now defense attorney, joining me out of

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Speaker 1: Inner City, Atlanta. Doctor Bethany Marshall, psychoanalyst to the stars,

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Speaker 1: joining us from Beverly Hills. Who can find her at

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Speaker 1: doctor Bethany Marshall dot com. Stephen Lampley, detective, author of

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Speaker 1: Outside Your Door at Stephen Lampley dot com. The former

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Speaker 1: medical examiner for the State of Georgia. Doctor Chris Sperry.

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Speaker 1: But right now, Terray Caputo, lead news anchor or Orlando's

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Speaker 1: Morning News DBO. Let's start at the beginning. Explain to

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Speaker 1: me how a beloved chef. In fact, I'm looking at

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Speaker 1: him right now and he is posing with a rooster.

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Speaker 1: I think, yes, that's a rooster. He's got in a

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Speaker 1: hat that says chef and he's holding the rooster. I

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Speaker 1: think it's a prize rooster. As if it's a baby

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Speaker 1: looking right at the camera. I mean, this guy didn't

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Speaker 1: have an enemy in the world. So how does Dan

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Speaker 1: Brophy Ray Kaputo end up shot dead? Well, Nancy, Dan Brokey,

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Speaker 1: by all accounts as a good guy. He was the

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Speaker 1: head instructor at the Oregon Culinary Institute for over a decade.

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Speaker 1: You know, he had a lot of young people. He

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Speaker 1: was a member of the community, helps people, help fed

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Speaker 1: the homeless. So he goes, hold on, hold on, you

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Speaker 1: got me drinking out of the fire. Eject too much

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Speaker 1: too fast. Did you say the head instructor at the

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Speaker 1: culinary Institute? Did you say that he was to the

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Speaker 1: head instructure? Okay, right, so that's a yes. Second question,

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Speaker 1: did you say he was involved in feeding the homeless

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Speaker 1: with his father yet and that was among them? Okay, pause, Ray,

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Speaker 1: I'm gonna circle back to Ray Kabudo, the lead niece

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Speaker 1: anchor Morning News w DBO. Daryl Cohen, former prosecutor Inner

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Speaker 1: City Atlanta, now defense attorney Darryl Out. Of all the

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Speaker 1: cases you prosecuted and defended, did you ever notice or

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Speaker 1: wonder why did the good people have to be murdered?

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Speaker 1: No good d goes unpunished. I've never understood it, but

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Speaker 1: I think good people make a better target than bad people. Oh,

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Speaker 1: now you do have your j D, right, not your

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Speaker 1: pH d in psychiatry. Let me just clarify. I've ad

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Speaker 1: Darryl Cohen, attorney and counselor at law, the counselor part

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Speaker 1: as in like Bethiy Marshall, psycho analyst. Okay, didn't know

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Speaker 1: that about you, Daryl Cohen, But okay, just keep pulling

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Speaker 1: your leg. But you know, just I've noticed as it's

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Speaker 1: not a statistic, this is anecdotal, but I remember in

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Speaker 1: court thinking, why do all the good people get murdered

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Speaker 1: and the bad people, the evil people run free, unfettered,

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Speaker 1: Daryl Nancy, Because the good people don't expect something bad

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Speaker 1: to happen to them. The bad people are always looking

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Speaker 1: straight up, down and around to see what is going

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Speaker 1: to happen to them, and who is going to happen

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Speaker 1: to them. The good people do the right thing, and

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Speaker 1: when the wrong thing happens, it's totally unexpected, so they're

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Speaker 1: not there to defend themselves mentally or physically. That's a

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Speaker 1: conungrent of to doctor Bethany Marshall joining me, psychoanalyst, out

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Speaker 1: of la and I wrestled with it for so long

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Speaker 1: as a felony prosecutor, and I would look over at

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Speaker 1: the defendant and think why not that it was my

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Speaker 1: burden to prove motive, of course, but I would wonder why, Bethany.

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Speaker 1: I don't know what this means. But after about five

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Speaker 1: years prosecuting nothing but hardcore felonies for the rest of

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Speaker 1: the decade plus that I prosecuted, I didn't wonder why

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Speaker 1: as an inner question because I couldn't figure it out.

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Speaker 1: But I do have that lingering issue. What Here's Dan Brafey,

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Speaker 1: loving husband, his family, his wife who was a know

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Speaker 1: is a very famous romance novelist, food cooking, his students.

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Speaker 1: That was his world. I mean, he's posing with a rooster. Bethany,

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Speaker 1: I know, I know, you know. According to my forensic

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Speaker 1: idol Read Malloy, I'll quote him, but that all crimes

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Speaker 1: boiled down, the motivation for all crimes boiled down to

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Speaker 1: envy and jealousy. Envy. You have a better life, you

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Speaker 1: have something I want, your great your beloved, other people

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Speaker 1: love you. I'm going to gun you down. You know

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Speaker 1: what's interesting. I just tried to fit in very quickly,

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Speaker 1: two or three cases that I prosecuted into your equation,

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Speaker 1: and I immediately thought of a car jack. Yes, the

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Speaker 1: purp wanted the car. It was just as simple as that.

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Speaker 1: So he murdered a young man to get it. Then

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Speaker 1: a debt over ten dollars. One of the ten dollars.

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Speaker 1: But I'm just thinking about over all the cases I prosecuted,

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Speaker 1: the murders. It maybe is it that simple? Okay, Ray Kaputo,

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Speaker 1: I just let us down a rabbit hole. Sorry about that.

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Speaker 1: Back to you, Ray Kaputo. W DBO. What more can

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Speaker 1: you tell me about Dan Brophy other than he loved food,

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Speaker 1: He loved cuisine. He loved his students. Another thought, Another

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Speaker 1: thought to Stephen Lampley, former detective author outside your door.

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Speaker 1: Remember Tera Grinstead the high school I think history teacher

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Speaker 1: and beauty queen getting her master's degree. Turns out her

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Speaker 1: killer went unsaw for years was one of her previous students.

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Speaker 1: That opens up a gamut of potential suspects, Steve Nancia does.

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Speaker 1: But as all murdering investigations go, we're not going to

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Speaker 1: begin there. Yeah, We're gonna look at everybody. We're gonna

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Speaker 1: everygree stave a whole pool a potential suspect. But yes,

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Speaker 1: of course you always start with those closest too, the victim.

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Speaker 1: Ray Kaputo back to this guy fed, the homeless, beloved chef.

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Speaker 1: What Mark can you tell me about Dan Brithey? Married,

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Speaker 1: happily married to a romance novelist. What more do we

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Speaker 1: know about him? Well, I mean, yeah, he was married

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Speaker 1: for twenty seven years. His neighbors said he just seemed

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Speaker 1: like a really good guy, had a home garden, he'd

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Speaker 1: liked to forage for mushrooms. He was like a really

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Speaker 1: good with marine biology and nature and stuff. And you know,

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Speaker 1: he does seem like a really content guy. I know

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Speaker 1: one of his students who had said that she had

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Speaker 1: saw him just before he passed away. He was delivering

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Speaker 1: mushrooms or some food to a restaurant she was in,

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Speaker 1: and she said he just looked content. Many he looked

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Speaker 1: like he was just a happy guy going about his life.

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Speaker 1: And that never really struck me because it seemed like

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Speaker 1: it wasn't his time to go take a little into

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Speaker 1: our friens a ko i in. This is how most

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Speaker 1: people remember Daniel Brophy. A teacher, a chef, someone who

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Speaker 1: cared about treating animals humanely. Dominique Boza says she wouldn't

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Speaker 1: have graduated the Oregan Culinary Institute without his help. He

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Speaker 1: was really tough. He was really hard. He would call

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Speaker 1: out some of the flaws that you had so you

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Speaker 1: can correct them. There was a big flood that came

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Speaker 1: down here and it buried a bunch of things. She

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Speaker 1: shared with us this video of Brophy in his element knowledge,

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Speaker 1: knowledge beyond belief. If you think you come into culinary

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Speaker 1: school like wide eyed with like the stream of being

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Speaker 1: a chef Crime Stories with Nancy Grace, Daniel GROWTHI a

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Speaker 1: murder victim, beloved chef husband. His whole world was the

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Speaker 1: culinary institute and institute and his students. Take a listen

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Speaker 1: to the murder victim in his own words. So I'm

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Speaker 1: always looking to learn new ingredients, new techniques, new cuisines,

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Speaker 1: and that keeps it interesting for me. You can see

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Speaker 1: how it needs a little something. Yeah, I mean you

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Speaker 1: walk by, you see that on a point, It's like,

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Speaker 1: oh man, I didn't even on the ad ferrets in

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Speaker 1: the US. I just love the culture that's been created here,

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Speaker 1: having the autonomy to write a class without having to

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Speaker 1: have approval, give it a focal point, put some color,

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Speaker 1: put some shape on there, because that you know, it's utilization,

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Speaker 1: it's opportunity. But if if it looks like a crap,

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Speaker 1: you always been all about it, even if it taste good.

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Speaker 1: People even their eyes, you know, so they see that.

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Speaker 1: You are hearing him speak in his own words about

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Speaker 1: his love for food. It was an art to him.

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Speaker 1: So back to you, Ray Kaputo, describe for me the injuries,

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Speaker 1: how he was found dead. Well, he went Dan browfordy

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Speaker 1: went to work on a Saturday morning. He had taught

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Speaker 1: weekend classes as well, and his students notice that he's

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Speaker 1: on around and they're going to go looking for him,

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Speaker 1: and they find him shot. He shot twice now, once

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Speaker 1: in the back and I believe once in the chest.

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Speaker 1: And you know, it's just a terrible thing. You know,

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Speaker 1: one of the students called nine one one. They have

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Speaker 1: a nine one one call, and you know, it was

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Speaker 1: just a really terrible sight, something that you know, nobody

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Speaker 1: expects to walk into on a Saturday morning when you're

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Speaker 1: you know, about to be learning in a learning environment.

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Speaker 1: You know, that's very very curious because statistically, on an

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Speaker 1: early Saturday morning to Daryl Cohen, former prosecutor now defense attorney.

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Speaker 1: Early Saturday morning is typically not when you get a

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Speaker 1: murder that's statistically off right there, it's not random. This

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Speaker 1: tells me it is not random. Every time someone is murdered.

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Speaker 1: Almost every time, when it's random, it's late at night,

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Speaker 1: they've been drinking. They would bolden their brazen. But this

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Speaker 1: on a Saturday morning, I think we're going to find

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Speaker 1: is someone who was after him and wanted to see

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Speaker 1: him there. You know, I heard one of those students

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Speaker 1: say that he would point out your flaws if you

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Speaker 1: did something wrong, and that's just part of the teaching process.

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Speaker 1: I mean, Darryl. In law school, we have the Socratic

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Speaker 1: method where you stand up in front of two hundred

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Speaker 1: people and you brief acase, identify the issue, give the

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Speaker 1: courts reasoning and application, and if you're wrong, you will

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Speaker 1: be questioned without stop by the professor and made to

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Speaker 1: look like a complete idiot. I mean, I totally never

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Speaker 1: raised my hand in law school. What Nancy Nancy d Qualls,

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Speaker 1: same law school. You and I went to separate times

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Speaker 1: called on me in criminal procedure, and it was about

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Speaker 1: sneaking up on someone and I told him exactly what

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Speaker 1: I should do, and he looked at me and said,

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Speaker 1: you're not a very good criminal. It's obvious to me

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Speaker 1: you have never snuck off on someone. Oh, you totally

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Speaker 1: be humiliated in law school by the professor's I remember

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Speaker 1: I made one bad grade and it was in my

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Speaker 1: first year one l and they posted the grades by number,

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Speaker 1: and by several of our grades, the professor wrote, good

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Speaker 1: luck in your law school career. So there, just let

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Speaker 1: me say, I was so spurred, you know, by that humiliation.

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Speaker 1: I fought my way up to Laurview because I was

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Speaker 1: convinced I was going to flunk it out after that

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Speaker 1: note that find an empathetic night from my professor. I

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Speaker 1: guess the same thing here. Did you hear that? Bethanie Marshall,

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Speaker 1: one of the students, said, oh yeah, I hit point

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Speaker 1: out if you know, had a flaw or you did

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Speaker 1: something wrong. Yeah, I heard it, Nancy. But that is

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Speaker 1: the role of a professor is to teach, to criticize,

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Speaker 1: to point out flaws. I think unfortunately, in this current

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Speaker 1: flatitious climate, students feel entitled to a good grade, and

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Speaker 1: they feel that they can buy their education. And I

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Speaker 1: have several friends who are professors. One is the head

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Speaker 1: of social Work at USC, and she says that if

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Speaker 1: she gives up a student a bad grade, they will

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Speaker 1: get an attorney to write her a letter. That's how entitled.

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Speaker 1: Some of the students are these. Okay, where does she

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Speaker 1: teach head of the School of Social Work at USC. Okay, guys,

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Speaker 1: let me get out of the USC Social Work school

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Speaker 1: and back into this murder case. Ray Kipude b DBO.

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Speaker 1: Question to you. So he's found in an early morning

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Speaker 1: I assume at work at the Culinary Institute by one

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Speaker 1: of the students. And where was he? Was he slumped

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Speaker 1: over a table? Was he in the kitchen? But did

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Speaker 1: somebody break in? Was there a forced and trim and

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Speaker 1: it got a lot of questions for you tell me

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Speaker 1: some more circumstances surrounding the discovery of his body. Yeah, well,

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Speaker 1: we know that he disarmed the security system, So this

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Speaker 1: murder happened just before the but he was found in

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Speaker 1: the back way just before what he disarmed the alarm

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Speaker 1: system and the murder occurred when after that, just after that? Yes, yeah,

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Speaker 1: so he was found in the back It wasn't immediately

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Speaker 1: evident that he had been shot because I believe another

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Speaker 1: instructor had come in just after him and didn't hear

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Speaker 1: any shots. But it was students, you know, maybe fifteen

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Speaker 1: twenty minutes after them that ended up finding his body. Now,

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Speaker 1: police looked around and here's the weird part of the answer.

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Speaker 1: He didn't seem like a robbery because his wallet was

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Speaker 1: still on on him, his cell phone as key. There

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Speaker 1: was no struggle and there was no four centuries so

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Speaker 1: and needless to say that after this happened, you know,

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Speaker 1: this is a learning environment. These students are on edge

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Speaker 1: now because their professor instructors just found that and nobody

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Speaker 1: knows who did it. My initial thought would be who

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Speaker 1: what student found him? Do you know, I don't know particularly,

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Speaker 1: but it was it was ones who were having classes,

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Speaker 1: ones who it should have been there. So it wasn't

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Speaker 1: anything out of the ordinary in terms of who found it. Interesting,

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Speaker 1: you know, I want to analyze what we just heard

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Speaker 1: to Steve Lampley, detective author of outside your Door. So

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Speaker 1: he cuts off the alarm system, and between the time

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Speaker 1: he cuts off the alarm system that morning at the

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Speaker 1: culinary institute in his area and the time the first

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Speaker 1: student comes in there, he has been murdered. That's pretty

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Speaker 1: good timing in and out, just like in a movie. Lampley,

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Speaker 1: let me see as somebody that obviously knew he was

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Speaker 1: a routine. At least that's my opinion. They knew when

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Speaker 1: he was going to be there. They knew his basic routine.

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Speaker 1: And I agree with the other gentleman, this was not

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Speaker 1: a random killing. I agree, you and Daryl Cohen both

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Speaker 1: agree on that. And speaking of his love for Culinary

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Speaker 1: Institute and food and cooking and being innovative, take a

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Speaker 1: listen now to Katu and news of the grieving wife Dan.

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Speaker 1: I've never known exactly what he wanted in life. And yeah,

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Speaker 1: a student's colleagues and loved ones gathered at the Oregon

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Speaker 1: Culinary Institute tonight to remember beloved chef Dan Brofy. He

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Speaker 1: was shot and killed over the weekend. Police still don't

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Speaker 1: know who killed him. Chef Dan Brophy ran southless, Portland's

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Speaker 1: Oregon Culinary Institute. Students arriving for class the morning of

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Speaker 1: June second found Brofy dead inside the school, his killer

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Speaker 1: nowhere to be found. Later that day, Nancy Crampton Brofy

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Speaker 1: appeared at a vigil. He was a person who did

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Speaker 1: what he loved teaching rushroom family he loved next time.

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Speaker 1: Nancy Crampton Brophy posted on her Facebook page the next

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Speaker 1: day a message announcing the sad news of her husband's

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Speaker 1: murder and added, I'm struggling to make sense of everything.

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Speaker 1: Right now you are hearing sound from a vigil for

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Speaker 1: the beloved chef instructor husband Dan Brophy. Between the time

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Speaker 1: he opens up the culinary institute, turns off the alarm

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Speaker 1: system and before the first student can come in, he

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Speaker 1: has been shot dead. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace Guys.

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Speaker 1: The murderer of Daniel Brothy sends shockways through a small

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Speaker 1: Oregan community. The case remains a mystery, very curious to

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Speaker 1: doctor Chris Sperry, former Chief Medical Examiner for the entire

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Speaker 1: state of Georgia. We've tried many a case together, doctor Sperry.

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Speaker 1: When you come on to a scene like that, what's

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Speaker 1: the first thing you or your medical examiner, investigators and

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Speaker 1: staff would do to secure the scene and what would

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Speaker 1: you look for? Well, we would securing the scene is

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Speaker 1: exactly it, blocking off and closing access to the place,

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Speaker 1: the place of the building where the body was found,

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Speaker 1: and then we started working our way into the body

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Speaker 1: into where the body is located, looking for evidence, bugle

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Speaker 1: overturned chairs, you know that, showing to trying to see

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Speaker 1: if there had been any little fight between the perpetrator

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Speaker 1: and the victim and at the same time looking for

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Speaker 1: things like bullet cartridge case scenes in Chris, your satellite

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Speaker 1: is going down just a little bit, Jack, see if

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Speaker 1: you can reconnect him. But I did hear what he

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Speaker 1: said part of it. Ray Kaputo, lead anchor WDBO Morning News.

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Speaker 1: Was there a scene. Let's follow up on what doctor

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Speaker 1: Chris Sperry said. Was there any evidence of a struggle?

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Speaker 1: You said there was a forced entry, nothing turned over,

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Speaker 1: nothing at all. No, and that was the curious partner.

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Speaker 1: There wasn't a sign of a struggle. Was there's two

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Speaker 1: gunshots and the body slumped over, but nothing broken again,

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Speaker 1: personal items, personal effects still there. There really least comb

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Speaker 1: through this crime scene. They couldn't find a motive just yet.

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Speaker 1: That's very interesting because to you, Daryl Cohen, you would

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Speaker 1: look to see if anything has been stolen, if anything

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Speaker 1: has been moved around at the scene. With a female victim,

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Speaker 1: you typically look to see if there have been a

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Speaker 1: sex attack or a theft. With a male. You typically

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Speaker 1: look to say, if there has been any theft, would

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Speaker 1: you agree with that one thousand percent, not one hundred,

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Speaker 1: not two hundred, but one thousand. I'm glad to hear that.

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Speaker 1: So Darrell and I agree on this. So where does

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Speaker 1: that leave me, doctor Bethany Marshall, Well, I peophere it

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Speaker 1: leads us is that this was not a crime of opportunity.

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Speaker 1: This is somebody, as the panel pointed out, the perpetrator

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Speaker 1: knew his schedule, was intimately acquainted with his schedule. Not

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Speaker 1: only just that he was a chef and that he

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Speaker 1: worked at the culinary institute, but did he have a class.

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Speaker 1: This is not somebody who wanted to rob him. This

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Speaker 1: is not somebody who came and confronted him on something

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Speaker 1: and then a scuttle ensued. This is somebody who had

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Speaker 1: the class schedule, who would have had the class schedule,

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Speaker 1: family members, students. Was there another disgruntled employee there or Bethany,

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Speaker 1: I can't believe you haven't brought up Sato masochism yet.

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Speaker 1: What are you okay bath to me? Because I'm worried.

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Speaker 1: As you said the first thing you say, it's clearly

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Speaker 1: Sato my stotistic so I can't believe haven't brought up

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Speaker 1: the idea that he had a lover at the culinary institute,

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Speaker 1: maybe a younger woman. But actually, don't waste your time

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Speaker 1: or your breath because he didn't. I mean, you see

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Speaker 1: him cold up pry here with our rooster. And apparently

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Speaker 1: the reaser has something to do with eggs. But where

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Speaker 1: does that lead made of a sex attack? He doesn't

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Speaker 1: have a lover, no girlfriend, Police cold through all of

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Speaker 1: his texts, emails, the works, nothing And typically when you

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Speaker 1: have a spouse do a killing, you find it at

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Speaker 1: home or in the case of Jennifer Dulas, you never

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Speaker 1: find the body, or it's hidden away in some remote

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Speaker 1: area because they want to get it away from the home.

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Speaker 1: But speaking of the wife, pretty famous romance novelist take

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Speaker 1: a listen to our friends at kg W eight. Nancy

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Speaker 1: has written several novels and in twenty eleven also wrote

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Speaker 1: an essay called how to Murder Your Husband. In it,

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Speaker 1: she writes, I find it as easier to wish people

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Speaker 1: dead than to actually kill them. I don't want to

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Speaker 1: worry about blood and brains splattered on my walls. And

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Speaker 1: really I'm not good at remembering lies. But the thing

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Speaker 1: I know about murder is that every one of us

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Speaker 1: has it in him or her when pushed far enough.

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Speaker 1: Huh Well, I mean, I guess we can all agree

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Speaker 1: with that nobody wants blood and brains spattering on their walls.

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Speaker 1: But I've never really thought to say it's easier to

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Speaker 1: wish people dead rather than actually do it. And I

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Speaker 1: know that if pushed far enough, anyone can murder. Is

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Speaker 1: that true, doctor, Bethany do you believe that's true? If

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Speaker 1: anyone is pushed far enough, they could commit murder. And

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Speaker 1: murder is not self defense. So let's not confuse. If

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Speaker 1: you are under attack, or your child or a third

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Speaker 1: party is about to be murdered, and you kill someone

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Speaker 1: to say someone else, that's not murder. Self defense is

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Speaker 1: a complete defense under the law, and it's not accident.

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Speaker 1: So do you believe that, Bethley, Because I find it

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Speaker 1: really hard to believe that I would commit a murder.

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Speaker 1: I never even think about killing anybody, can't. I don't

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Speaker 1: even believe in crime of passion, to be honest with you,

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Speaker 1: that's a legal term. I think all murders are contemplated,

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Speaker 1: either consciously or unconsciously, for a great amount of time.

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Speaker 1: Very few things happen by random or by chance. They

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Speaker 1: are fantasized about. They're glorified. This woman is talking about

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Speaker 1: brains and God's help being splattered against her wall. It

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Speaker 1: sounds like somebody who is beginning to fantasize about murder

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Speaker 1: told me, if you're writing a murder a mystery, of

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Speaker 1: course you're going to write about that. I thought she

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Speaker 1: was a romance novel novelist for the most part, but

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Speaker 1: she did write this essay. I mean, Bethany, excuse me?

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Speaker 1: Does this mean you have not read the Hailey Dean

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Speaker 1: murder histories? Because I really off somebody by pushing them

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Speaker 1: into the water at Gator World. However, so does that

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Speaker 1: mean you know? Although my husband Jackie didn't want to

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Speaker 1: put a toe at Gator Land or Gator World, whichever

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Speaker 1: it was. When the children to Disney, he said, hey,

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Speaker 1: I read your book. I'm not getting near that boardwalk

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Speaker 1: forget about it. But a lot story short, that doesn't

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Speaker 1: mean I would actually do it. Nancy, one of my supervisors,

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Speaker 1: was a protegee of a protegee of Freud's. She was

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Speaker 1: from Austria. Died at age one hundred and three about

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Speaker 1: five years ago, and she used to always say, hey,

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Speaker 1: there's a difference. There's a difference between impulse and action.

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Speaker 1: We can think whatever we want, that's not a problem.

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Speaker 1: It's when you act out on it and you do it.

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Speaker 1: You ask me the question, do all of us have

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Speaker 1: in us the capacity for murder? No? Absolutely not, because

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Speaker 1: it takes an enormous amount of strength, planning, a willfulness, foresight, hatred.

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Speaker 1: So much goes in to killing a person. It is

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Speaker 1: not an easy thing to do. It doesn't just happen

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Speaker 1: randomly or by chance. Now, I have patients come to

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00:27:06,680 --> 00:27:08,960
Speaker 1: my office all the time and say, oh, I want

425
00:27:09,000 --> 00:27:11,480
Speaker 1: to tell you something, but I hope you won't report me,

426
00:27:11,520 --> 00:27:13,800
Speaker 1: and is this confidential, and blah blah blah. I always

427
00:27:13,800 --> 00:27:16,080
Speaker 1: know where they're going, especially if they're talking about their spouse.

428
00:27:16,119 --> 00:27:18,919
Speaker 1: And I'll say, I know you have the thought the

429
00:27:18,960 --> 00:27:20,960
Speaker 1: other day that you wish your spouse was dead. How

430
00:27:20,960 --> 00:27:26,200
Speaker 1: did you know? Because everybody thinks that it's ever thing

431
00:27:26,440 --> 00:27:30,119
Speaker 1: I wish David was dead. I kid around about it,

432
00:27:30,720 --> 00:27:32,919
Speaker 1: but I no reach the top shelf in the kitchen.

433
00:27:33,280 --> 00:27:36,600
Speaker 1: I mean, let's just start with that. But okay, here's

434
00:27:36,600 --> 00:27:39,960
Speaker 1: the reality. You've got this romance novelist. She's writing murder

435
00:27:40,080 --> 00:27:44,720
Speaker 1: essays as well. She ventures into writing murder mysteries, and

436
00:27:44,840 --> 00:27:47,840
Speaker 1: of course she's the wife. Take a listen to our

437
00:27:47,840 --> 00:27:51,000
Speaker 1: friends at ko I n TV. I think it's a

438
00:27:51,040 --> 00:27:53,960
Speaker 1: surprise to everybody in the neighborhood. As an author, she's

439
00:27:54,000 --> 00:27:58,040
Speaker 1: been writing steamy romance novels filled with murderer troubles in

440
00:27:58,040 --> 00:28:02,000
Speaker 1: the marriage. They never knew it. Fairly quiet ordinary people.

441
00:28:02,119 --> 00:28:05,560
Speaker 1: From what I could observe Christmas well, she may have

442
00:28:05,600 --> 00:28:09,000
Speaker 1: been tight lipped with neighbors. Nancy expressed her feelings on

443
00:28:09,080 --> 00:28:13,920
Speaker 1: Facebook shortly after Daniel's death, calling him her best friend.

444
00:28:14,160 --> 00:28:17,040
Speaker 1: In the months since her husband, beloved chef Daniel Brophy

445
00:28:17,160 --> 00:28:21,240
Speaker 1: was killed, McDonald says Nancy, who's now in custody, kept

446
00:28:21,240 --> 00:28:25,360
Speaker 1: busy preparing to move. I never put that together. I mean,

447
00:28:26,200 --> 00:28:29,119
Speaker 1: I mean, even after she said I'm a suspect, I

448
00:28:29,160 --> 00:28:32,800
Speaker 1: just thought, oh, yeah, wellly they always suspect the opposite spouse,

449
00:28:32,880 --> 00:28:37,440
Speaker 1: you know. I would hope that she's innocent and that

450
00:28:37,560 --> 00:28:52,840
Speaker 1: she's just handling it well. Crime stories with Nancy Grace, guys,

451
00:28:52,880 --> 00:28:55,640
Speaker 1: we were talking about the untimely death and murder of

452
00:28:55,640 --> 00:28:59,800
Speaker 1: a beloved chef I want you to take a listen

453
00:29:00,080 --> 00:29:04,440
Speaker 1: now to our friends. At kg W eight students found

454
00:29:04,520 --> 00:29:08,320
Speaker 1: chef Daniel Brophy clinging to life inside the organ Culinary Institute.

455
00:29:08,440 --> 00:29:11,600
Speaker 1: Brophy had been shot. Paramedics tried to save him, but

456
00:29:11,680 --> 00:29:14,240
Speaker 1: he didn't make it. I remember hearing about this back

457
00:29:14,240 --> 00:29:18,240
Speaker 1: in June, and you know, feeling, you know, how could

458
00:29:18,240 --> 00:29:21,760
Speaker 1: this happen to somebody who's just one of the best

459
00:29:21,800 --> 00:29:24,840
Speaker 1: people of Former students like Scott van Schoten are reeling

460
00:29:24,960 --> 00:29:28,440
Speaker 1: after learning his wife, Nancy Crampton Brophy, is now charged

461
00:29:28,480 --> 00:29:32,200
Speaker 1: with his murderer. The wife after all of her steamy

462
00:29:32,320 --> 00:29:36,000
Speaker 1: romancing romance novels, after going on Facebook talking about he's

463
00:29:36,120 --> 00:29:40,880
Speaker 1: her best friend. While it turns out that in this

464
00:29:40,960 --> 00:29:47,160
Speaker 1: case those thoughts turned into actions. Now police have a theory.

465
00:29:47,200 --> 00:29:51,080
Speaker 1: Listen to Ka to U two Joe Douglas. Investigators say

466
00:29:51,160 --> 00:29:54,520
Speaker 1: Nancy Brophy lied about where she was the morning her

467
00:29:54,600 --> 00:29:58,240
Speaker 1: husband's body was found here at the Oregon Culinary Institute.

468
00:29:58,320 --> 00:30:03,040
Speaker 1: They also say she lied about life insurance. This is

469
00:30:03,040 --> 00:30:06,400
Speaker 1: the article Portland police say Nancy Brophy wrote and posted

470
00:30:06,480 --> 00:30:10,120
Speaker 1: in twenty eleven entitled how to Murder Your Husband and

471
00:30:10,200 --> 00:30:13,480
Speaker 1: newly unsealed court documents. Detectives say they discovered Daniel and

472
00:30:13,560 --> 00:30:16,760
Speaker 1: Nancy shared a joint iTunes account and that someone on

473
00:30:16,800 --> 00:30:20,320
Speaker 1: it had recently bookmarked an article titled ten Ways to

474
00:30:20,480 --> 00:30:25,280
Speaker 1: cover up a murder. Okay, Ray Kaputo, you didn't tell me.

475
00:30:25,360 --> 00:30:29,480
Speaker 1: The essay she wrote was titled how to Murder Your Husband.

476
00:30:29,720 --> 00:30:32,920
Speaker 1: So now the author of all these steamy romance novels

477
00:30:32,960 --> 00:30:37,080
Speaker 1: and the essay how to Murder your husband is charged

478
00:30:37,120 --> 00:30:42,320
Speaker 1: with murdering her husband. What is the evidence? And wait,

479
00:30:42,520 --> 00:30:44,640
Speaker 1: what was the m O? How did she get in?

480
00:30:44,840 --> 00:30:47,800
Speaker 1: What do we know? Ray kaputol Here her motivation was

481
00:30:47,800 --> 00:30:51,760
Speaker 1: apparently over a million dollars an insurance money. Now she

482
00:30:52,000 --> 00:30:54,800
Speaker 1: was paying the premiums on this insurance policy. Who we

483
00:30:54,880 --> 00:30:58,240
Speaker 1: learned well, her family home with her husband Danny, like

484
00:30:58,280 --> 00:31:01,160
Speaker 1: they weren't paying their mortgage, so they were kind of

485
00:31:01,240 --> 00:31:05,160
Speaker 1: months to months. And she apparently had fantasy a better

486
00:31:05,280 --> 00:31:07,720
Speaker 1: life just going out and being able to write her

487
00:31:07,840 --> 00:31:11,640
Speaker 1: romance novels and travel the world. And she could already

488
00:31:11,840 --> 00:31:16,440
Speaker 1: write her romance novels. She was writing her romance novels.

489
00:31:16,720 --> 00:31:20,240
Speaker 1: I mean, I don't understand that, Dodgor Bethany Marshall. So

490
00:31:20,680 --> 00:31:23,440
Speaker 1: just to get the money so she could travel. You know,

491
00:31:23,560 --> 00:31:27,360
Speaker 1: such a common motivation for murder is somebody wanting to

492
00:31:27,400 --> 00:31:31,120
Speaker 1: have this idealized life when in fact they already have

493
00:31:31,160 --> 00:31:33,360
Speaker 1: a great life in front of them. I think of

494
00:31:33,400 --> 00:31:36,680
Speaker 1: top mom. You know, she wanted an idealized life with lovers,

495
00:31:36,680 --> 00:31:39,240
Speaker 1: so she got rid of her child, but she already

496
00:31:39,280 --> 00:31:41,960
Speaker 1: had the best life ever, Nancy. I see this in

497
00:31:42,000 --> 00:31:45,720
Speaker 1: my practice all the time. It doesn't necessarily lead to homicide. Obviously,

498
00:31:45,760 --> 00:31:50,240
Speaker 1: these are neurotic, not homicidal patients. But they always think,

499
00:31:50,360 --> 00:31:53,400
Speaker 1: or often think, that there's a better life somewhere else

500
00:31:53,760 --> 00:31:57,000
Speaker 1: with another person with more money, with riches, with fame.

501
00:31:57,640 --> 00:32:02,400
Speaker 1: But often they're married to these wonderful people like this chef.

502
00:32:02,880 --> 00:32:05,160
Speaker 1: But what they have right in front of them gets

503
00:32:05,240 --> 00:32:10,160
Speaker 1: you valued, It gets tromped on, it gets wasted, it

504
00:32:10,200 --> 00:32:15,440
Speaker 1: gets destroyed. These people are toxic, destructive people. So think

505
00:32:15,480 --> 00:32:17,720
Speaker 1: of how wonderful her life could have been with him.

506
00:32:17,720 --> 00:32:19,920
Speaker 1: But no, she had to take out all of these

507
00:32:19,960 --> 00:32:23,479
Speaker 1: insurance policies and my understanding, and she became her own agent,

508
00:32:24,080 --> 00:32:27,920
Speaker 1: wrote the policies as well as took them out. Talk

509
00:32:28,000 --> 00:32:31,120
Speaker 1: about being obvious in terms of her planning for this murder,

510
00:32:31,440 --> 00:32:35,560
Speaker 1: but she destroyed something good her life, and his insurance

511
00:32:35,600 --> 00:32:38,960
Speaker 1: payments were being made, but not house payments, according to W.

512
00:32:39,120 --> 00:32:44,720
Speaker 1: Dbo Ray Kiputo. To doctor Chris Sperry, former chief medical

513
00:32:44,720 --> 00:32:48,360
Speaker 1: Examiner for the entire state of Georgia, I thought it

514
00:32:48,400 --> 00:32:53,120
Speaker 1: was very interesting that he was shot twice, and I'm

515
00:32:53,160 --> 00:32:56,840
Speaker 1: betting it was at close range. What does that tell

516
00:32:56,920 --> 00:33:00,000
Speaker 1: you about the killer, doctor Sperry, Well, it tells me

517
00:33:00,200 --> 00:33:04,400
Speaker 1: that the killer was probably someone that was known to him,

518
00:33:04,480 --> 00:33:08,480
Speaker 1: and that the killer was allowed, that is, the victim

519
00:33:08,520 --> 00:33:12,160
Speaker 1: allowed the killer to get relatively close. It wasn't really

520
00:33:12,200 --> 00:33:16,560
Speaker 1: worried about anything at all, and he was taken by

521
00:33:16,640 --> 00:33:21,840
Speaker 1: surprise because the killer, unbeknownst to the victim, had a

522
00:33:21,880 --> 00:33:25,240
Speaker 1: gun and probably had an inside of a purse or

523
00:33:25,280 --> 00:33:28,600
Speaker 1: something like that until she got close enough to him

524
00:33:29,080 --> 00:33:31,960
Speaker 1: that she could easily kill him. And he just did

525
00:33:32,000 --> 00:33:34,240
Speaker 1: not have an inkling of worry at all. You know,

526
00:33:34,280 --> 00:33:38,320
Speaker 1: it takes such a psyche to sneak him on somebody

527
00:33:38,320 --> 00:33:41,600
Speaker 1: that you either loved or love with a hidden weapon,

528
00:33:42,320 --> 00:33:44,960
Speaker 1: go up to them at close range, take out the

529
00:33:45,000 --> 00:33:49,080
Speaker 1: gun and shoot them not once, but twice. And I

530
00:33:49,160 --> 00:33:53,480
Speaker 1: believe that second bullet really gave her away because she

531
00:33:53,960 --> 00:33:59,240
Speaker 1: killed him twice over and then leave the scene. Now

532
00:33:59,400 --> 00:34:05,120
Speaker 1: take a SIKATUNEDS reporter Joe Douglas. Investigators say Nancy told

533
00:34:05,160 --> 00:34:07,760
Speaker 1: them she'd bought a nine millimeter pistol at a gun

534
00:34:07,800 --> 00:34:11,760
Speaker 1: show in February twenty eighteen. They say the two bullets

535
00:34:11,800 --> 00:34:15,120
Speaker 1: that hit Daniel Brophy did not match that gun, but

536
00:34:15,239 --> 00:34:18,120
Speaker 1: investigators say they later discovered Nancy had bought a kit

537
00:34:18,280 --> 00:34:22,720
Speaker 1: online from ghostguns dot Com to make a similar, untraceable

538
00:34:22,800 --> 00:34:25,760
Speaker 1: version of the pistol. They also say she bought gun

539
00:34:25,800 --> 00:34:28,719
Speaker 1: parts like a slide barrel online and that the gun

540
00:34:28,760 --> 00:34:32,839
Speaker 1: and accessories matched the bullets that hit Daniel. Police also

541
00:34:32,880 --> 00:34:36,360
Speaker 1: say Nancy lied about her location the morning Daniel was found.

542
00:34:36,719 --> 00:34:38,800
Speaker 1: They say she told them she was at her Beavergon

543
00:34:38,920 --> 00:34:42,239
Speaker 1: home when surveillance video showed her driving her minivan on

544
00:34:42,320 --> 00:34:46,960
Speaker 1: Jefferson outside the Culinary Institute before Daniel's body was found.

545
00:34:50,040 --> 00:34:52,880
Speaker 1: Investigators also say Nancy told them she'd taken out a

546
00:34:52,920 --> 00:34:56,120
Speaker 1: forty thousand dollar life insurance policy on Daniel. They say

547
00:34:56,120 --> 00:34:59,760
Speaker 1: they later discovered she was a beneficiary at several policies

548
00:35:00,000 --> 00:35:02,880
Speaker 1: at more than three hundred and fifty thousand bucks Nancy

549
00:35:02,920 --> 00:35:06,319
Speaker 1: Brophy has pleaded not guilty to murder. As it turns out,

550
00:35:06,440 --> 00:35:10,440
Speaker 1: it was over one million dollars of life insurance proceeds

551
00:35:10,480 --> 00:35:13,120
Speaker 1: she had coming to her at the time of the

552
00:35:13,120 --> 00:35:16,839
Speaker 1: death of her husband. I mean, mini van, could you

553
00:35:16,880 --> 00:35:20,120
Speaker 1: get any more cliche? I'm a guilty mini van driver.

554
00:35:20,239 --> 00:35:22,920
Speaker 1: Let me just put that out there. So I wonder

555
00:35:22,960 --> 00:35:26,360
Speaker 1: does she want to get caught because to you, Stephen Lampley,

556
00:35:26,719 --> 00:35:30,759
Speaker 1: detective author, outside your door, that takes a lot of

557
00:35:30,800 --> 00:35:34,520
Speaker 1: effort and a lot of planning to go to ghostgun

558
00:35:34,600 --> 00:35:38,520
Speaker 1: dot com order what you need to make a ghost gun?

559
00:35:38,560 --> 00:35:41,799
Speaker 1: What is a ghost gun? Nancy? In this case, what

560
00:35:41,920 --> 00:35:44,799
Speaker 1: she did was she they had previously bought a gun

561
00:35:44,880 --> 00:35:47,279
Speaker 1: I think it had a gun show, and she went

562
00:35:47,320 --> 00:35:51,360
Speaker 1: online to eBay as I understand, and bought replacement parts

563
00:35:51,480 --> 00:35:54,759
Speaker 1: for that gun. And what she did was is she

564
00:35:54,840 --> 00:35:58,160
Speaker 1: took the original parts out of the gun as it

565
00:35:58,200 --> 00:36:00,799
Speaker 1: was purchased. I believe it was a clock, and then

566
00:36:00,840 --> 00:36:03,640
Speaker 1: she replaced it with the parts that she bought from eBay.

567
00:36:03,800 --> 00:36:06,000
Speaker 1: And the whole purpose of that was to use the

568
00:36:06,080 --> 00:36:09,800
Speaker 1: gun to commit the murder. Come back, take the barrel,

569
00:36:09,880 --> 00:36:13,279
Speaker 1: which of course would indicate the riflings and lands and

570
00:36:13,360 --> 00:36:16,759
Speaker 1: grooves on the bullet itself, replaced the barrel and the

571
00:36:16,840 --> 00:36:21,200
Speaker 1: parts that would give away that gun with the original

572
00:36:21,600 --> 00:36:25,000
Speaker 1: and hopes that the police would never catch that. Well.

573
00:36:25,160 --> 00:36:30,840
Speaker 1: At this moment, she is being held behind bars. The

574
00:36:30,880 --> 00:36:37,040
Speaker 1: former romance novelist is seeking any way to get out

575
00:36:37,440 --> 00:36:40,960
Speaker 1: of jail. But hey, Chennap, you had a lot of

576
00:36:41,000 --> 00:36:46,600
Speaker 1: time alone to work on your next novel. We wait

577
00:36:46,960 --> 00:36:51,080
Speaker 1: as justice and falls. Nancy Grace Crime Stories, signing off

578
00:36:51,719 --> 00:36:52,400
Speaker 1: goodbye friend,