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Speaker 1: Hello, I'm Scott So, I'm en Nobe Williams and I'm

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Speaker 1: Michael bar This is the Bloomberg Business of Sports podcast.

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Speaker 1: Where where where not? He? But we were the big

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Speaker 1: money issues. He's down. He's down today. We went down

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Speaker 1: for a little serial run and that we didn't. He's

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Speaker 1: not himself today, He's he's It's a Monday doldrum for Evan.

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Speaker 1: What's the matter, man, I'm feeling great, fantastic this captain

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Speaker 1: marvel over the weekend I did miss. Honestly, That's what

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Speaker 1: we will begin with. New York Mix owner James Dolan

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Speaker 1: called on video reacting to a heckler following yet another

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Speaker 1: loss for his team. TMZ Sports was the first one

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Speaker 1: to post the video here. It is come to anymore games?

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Speaker 1: That's rude, you know what? Watching him on TV? Dang,

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Speaker 1: you think I'm in a bad mood this morning. I

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Speaker 1: don't own a four billion dollars. I would exactly, I

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Speaker 1: would if I was Dennis Potvin, former New York Islanders

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Speaker 1: captain and great who is still s msg. Pot Van sucks.

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Speaker 1: They scream. So if the barometer is that's rude, I

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Speaker 1: think you need to inject the eject the entire crowd

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Speaker 1: at Madison Square Garden when they're making that chance. That's

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Speaker 1: rude to Dennis Potven, is it not. I mean, look first, yes,

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Speaker 1: just come on, Jimmy, come on. I mean you know

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Speaker 1: that the man is there. You know Mr Dolan is

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Speaker 1: right there, and just because you think you're a fan

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Speaker 1: is inside on this. I think he might be. He

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Speaker 1: didn't curse, he wasn't vulgar, he wasn't any think that

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Speaker 1: is what fan is about. It's about a rational emotion.

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Speaker 1: So the dude, the team is not doing well, has

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Speaker 1: not done well. He's heard of a thousand times. You

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Speaker 1: know what what would have been better for Jimmy Dolan?

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Speaker 1: You know what would have been better. I know you're

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Speaker 1: gonna say say nothing, No, come on over, chat with

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Speaker 1: the guy and say, you know, we're really we really appreciate.

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Speaker 1: It's that kind of passion that really makes our fans

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Speaker 1: the best. We're trying. Man, it hasn't been. But I'm

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Speaker 1: saying if you if you do that, not only do

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Speaker 1: you cement this guy's spots as a Knicks fan. He

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Speaker 1: never yelled again, you know what's not so bad? What

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Speaker 1: are you gonna do? So what? That's what sports is

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Speaker 1: he if he had given an F bomb, get out?

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Speaker 1: Had he done something recrude? Get out? Sell the team?

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Speaker 1: Come on, look, I remember when I went down to

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Speaker 1: see the Tigers play in Lakeland, Florida, and you know

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Speaker 1: how great the Tigers are. Man, They've had a season

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Speaker 1: and Sparky Anderson was smoking on the side and you

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Speaker 1: said what I said? Look and by the way, yes, okay,

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Speaker 1: they lost, and I did as a fan. They didn't

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Speaker 1: know me from Adam. I just simply said, hey, hey, guys,

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Speaker 1: go back and get him next time. Yeah, and now

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Speaker 1: I will admit, like, you know, one player looked at

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Speaker 1: me like, you know, that's that's entirely too rational rational

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Speaker 1: response for sports fan. Did you have good effort? Right? Yeah?

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Speaker 1: Has Jimmy Dolan ever been to the blue seats in

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Speaker 1: his own building? That's I mean, it's rude. That places

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Speaker 1: downright crude. Forget rude, let's add the Sea msg the

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Speaker 1: Blues can be crude. And he's tossing a guy for

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Speaker 1: sell the team. I know he doesn't want to hear it,

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Speaker 1: but that is not how you treat your fans. He

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Speaker 1: was in a bad move, I will admit, but still,

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Speaker 1: come on, man, don't don't Taunce body man, is I mean,

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Speaker 1: I'm saying to the fan, just yes, it's a bad season.

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Speaker 1: But anyway, moving right, this one's a little more serious.

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Speaker 1: Let's talk about the entire US women's national soccer team.

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Speaker 1: They're suing the United States Soccer Federation arguing for equal pay.

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Speaker 1: Team member Becky Sauerbrun says, the US is behind when

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Speaker 1: it comes to the treatment of women athletes. You're very

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Speaker 1: much fighting for gender equality and pay equality, and so

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Speaker 1: I think you see that in other federations that are

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Speaker 1: also asking um for what they feel that they deserve.

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Speaker 1: It a very strategic move here by the by the

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Speaker 1: women's soccer teaming. It came the the lawsuit was filed

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Speaker 1: on International Women's Day and came about three months before

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Speaker 1: the first ball is kicked in the in the Women's

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Speaker 1: World Cup, which is in France this summer. UH taking

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Speaker 1: kind of a page out of the U S women's

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Speaker 1: ice hockey book, right, They started their big equal pay

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Speaker 1: push a few months before their World Championship. They ended

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Speaker 1: up getting not all of but most of what they wanted.

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Speaker 1: Ended up playing in the World Championship and winning a

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Speaker 1: gold medal. I believe, um. But yeah, this is this

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Speaker 1: is a strategic move, a leverage move by the US

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Speaker 1: women's national team heading into you know, the biggest couple

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Speaker 1: of months of their calendar every four years, um, trying

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Speaker 1: to get equal. You know what I've been told by

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Speaker 1: some folks the Department of Sanitation, every time the contract

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Speaker 1: runs up, runs out, you know, the big sticking point

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Speaker 1: in the next negotiation. When will the contract expire? And

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Speaker 1: can you figure out why? Well that no, I cannot

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Speaker 1: figure out because garbage doesn't stink in the winter and

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Speaker 1: people don't get angry if the contract is ends in

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Speaker 1: June and people's trash is piling up and it stinks,

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Speaker 1: that means the collect the union has more leverage in

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Speaker 1: the negotiations. I mean, this is a timing leverage. This

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Speaker 1: is all about the leverage and the timing of You've

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Speaker 1: got the World Cup coming up. You cannot have the

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Speaker 1: US women on the sideline and the World Cup ends

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Speaker 1: up being as we saw four years ago now when

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Speaker 1: they won that World Cup. It was in Japan, I

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Speaker 1: believe you know that it was a huge deal that

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Speaker 1: the ratings we went through the roof and when they

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Speaker 1: came back to the US they did a ten intensity tour,

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Speaker 1: I think, and those games vastly made a lot more

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Speaker 1: money than the men's the men's uh friendlies do right, So,

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Speaker 1: so that winning the World Cup turns into a tremendously

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Speaker 1: lucrative proposition for US soccer as a whole. Uh and

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Speaker 1: in a way that is, you know, even more generates

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Speaker 1: more money than the men's games. Right. So, so this

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Speaker 1: is it's not just about the World Cup itself, it's

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Speaker 1: also about you know, if they win this, there is

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Speaker 1: a barnstorming tour across the US that will happen. Um.

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Speaker 1: That is, that is worth more to US soccer than

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Speaker 1: than almost any of the men's games, regardless of what's

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Speaker 1: going on in their calendar. You know how this is

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Speaker 1: a big topic because my wife follows this and I

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Speaker 1: messed up over the weekend. Yeah, she was. She she

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Speaker 1: talked about this story and she was not she obviously

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Speaker 1: she was worked up about it. So having it she was.

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Speaker 1: We were watching a TV show and I'm not going

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Speaker 1: to mention that we're talking about the show Hazel. Okay,

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Speaker 1: and one of the stars of the show, Don be Four,

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Speaker 1: was in another episode and she says, who is that guy?

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Speaker 1: I said, well, that's Don de four. He was the

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Speaker 1: star of Hazel And she said, oh really, because I

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Speaker 1: thought the star of Hazel was Hazel. That's exactly what

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Speaker 1: she said, Shirley Booth. So, you know, people getting worked up.

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Speaker 1: You know, it took the long route, but you got there.

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Speaker 1: There are some there are some interesting folds to kind

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Speaker 1: of how this may play out. There's different ways to

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Speaker 1: look at the revenue that they generate. But but the

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Speaker 1: men certainly do seem to generate more money than the women.

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Speaker 1: You know that the counterclaim to that is that, you

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Speaker 1: know that women might generate more if they were given

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Speaker 1: the same opportunities that US Soccer gives the men. Um.

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Speaker 1: There's also different structures and how the team contracts work.

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Speaker 1: You know that the men are played on had on

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Speaker 1: a per game basis. Women are given you know, essentially

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Speaker 1: an annual salary um and then little bonuses when they win. Uh.

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Speaker 1: There's also you know, questions about equal pay for equal work.

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Speaker 1: The men's team, you know, doesn't play as much as

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Speaker 1: the women's team does. So there's a lot of folds

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Speaker 1: going on here. Um, But I think your right, Scott.

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Speaker 1: I think when it all comes down to it just

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Speaker 1: the fact that the Women's World Cup is coming up,

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Speaker 1: the fact that you know, we've seen companies like Nike

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Speaker 1: and Adidas have stepped up to the plate in terms

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Speaker 1: of paying women more. Women's sports is becoming a valuable

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Speaker 1: piece of marketing across the United States and probably abroad.

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Speaker 1: All of this is going to coalesce into into into

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Speaker 1: the perfect timing I think for for US women's soccer.

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Speaker 1: Very hard, as you said, very difficult to make an

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Speaker 1: apples to Apple's comparison as to how much each generates.

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Speaker 1: But several factors you just named a couple, certainly on

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Speaker 1: the women's side. We have another court battle to talk

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Speaker 1: about you a landmark college sports anti trust case, the

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Speaker 1: Laws of the Dying. Yeah, I have a lot of

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Speaker 1: thoughts here, just to give readers an understanding of what

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Speaker 1: happened late Friday night in a in a classic Friday

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Speaker 1: night read a story on the terminal listeners. Sorry, guys,

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Speaker 1: um let me talk um. A judge out in California

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Speaker 1: Treats ruled in an anti trust lawsuit against the n

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Speaker 1: c A that has been going on for a while.

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Speaker 1: Jeff Kessler, lawyer who you know sports fans probably know

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Speaker 1: because he works with almost all the unions. Uh. He

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Speaker 1: had been arguing that, you know, NTA rules that limit

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Speaker 1: payment that that schools can give to athletes, are any

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Speaker 1: are violations of any trust. They want a nuanced decision. Essentially,

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Speaker 1: what the judge said is that schools are not The

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Speaker 1: n c A cannot cap what schools give students for

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Speaker 1: academic reasons, right, so any benefit that they can tie

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Speaker 1: to academics is allowed. You cannot be a computer. Let's

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Speaker 1: get people the tutoring yea tutoring computer. Um, there's graduate degrees, internships,

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Speaker 1: scholarships at other institutions. And then you know the very

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Speaker 1: vague and I'm quoting here tangible items not included in

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Speaker 1: the cost of attendance, but nonetheless related to the pursuit

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Speaker 1: of academics. Alabama and Ohio State are going to offer

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Speaker 1: a lot of Yeah, so she did not. She left

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Speaker 1: the n c A caps in place for non academic stuff.

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Speaker 1: So we're not going to have a free agent market

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Speaker 1: in the way that you know, Kessler and others have

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Speaker 1: argued for. But as you said, Scott, within that definition

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Speaker 1: of what is an academic pursuit, there is a ton

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Speaker 1: of vagary and there is a lot to be interpreted.

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Speaker 1: So how about trips to Europe? Yeah? If if I'm

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Speaker 1: a student and I want my parents to be living

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Speaker 1: in a condo in town because they helped me with

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Speaker 1: my studies, is that allowed, right? If I if I

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Speaker 1: want a car so I can drive between practice and class,

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Speaker 1: because you know, the two things are a mile away,

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Speaker 1: and getting there back and forth, it is difficult. There's

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Speaker 1: a lot of things in here that are going to

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Speaker 1: be up for interpretation. Um. And the second major question,

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Speaker 1: and this I got into an argument with some people

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Speaker 1: on Twitter on Friday night. Yeah, he's never won a

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Speaker 1: Twitter argument. That's what I love. He's never won one.

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Speaker 1: I think the general thought on this people don't think

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Speaker 1: that they're they're the rich schools in college sports, the

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Speaker 1: ones that have a lot of money. Your Texas is,

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Speaker 1: your Ohio States, your Alabama's UM. They want to be

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Speaker 1: able to give students more money. It's part of their

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Speaker 1: competitive advantagement. When you have that much money, you want

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Speaker 1: to be able to use it to attract students, right. Um.

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Speaker 1: And the way they do that now, because of the

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Speaker 1: way and rules are structured, is they build a hundred

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Speaker 1: thousand dollar training facilities and strength Jim's facility the whole

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Speaker 1: towards sort of a different division of the haves and

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Speaker 1: the kind of haves. And that's that's how I interpret this,

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Speaker 1: that that now you're gonna see your your richer schools,

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Speaker 1: your richer conferences stretching that definition of academics in every

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Speaker 1: way possible. So that the student who is choosing between

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Speaker 1: Ohio State and University of Ohio in the MAC right,

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Speaker 1: a league that doesn't have the money that Ohio State does. Uh,

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Speaker 1: there's a further division of the things that he's offered

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Speaker 1: if he wants to play for ball in Columbus versus

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Speaker 1: what he's offered if he wants to play football in

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Speaker 1: athens Um. That's how I see this playing out, right. So, so,

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Speaker 1: in my opinion, this is a it's a landmark ruling

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Speaker 1: because it untethers the rules they no longer apply to

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Speaker 1: every conference evenly. Right, and as soon as that is true,

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Speaker 1: as soon as each conference is allowed to select its

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Speaker 1: own its own amount of benefits that they can give

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Speaker 1: to student athletes, I think you're going to see this

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Speaker 1: division open immediately. What will and will not be executive? Yeah,

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Speaker 1: And that's the great question. And in there you know,

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Speaker 1: the judge makes it clear that the n c A

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Speaker 1: can come back with a better definition of what's academic

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Speaker 1: benefits and it can be written codified into into the

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Speaker 1: ruling itself. Yeah. Yeah, it's also worth yeah, worth mentioning,

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Speaker 1: you say, will appeal. Um, This is this decision is

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Speaker 1: stayed until the appeal works itself out. Um. And this

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Speaker 1: is the same judge that ruled fairly leniently on the

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Speaker 1: ed abandoned trial a couple of years ago, and that

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Speaker 1: was appealed by the n c A A and a

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Speaker 1: lot of her a part of her ruling with scale

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Speaker 1: back on appeal. Right, So the n c A is

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Speaker 1: it's clearly hoping that you know, this follows that same

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Speaker 1: trap Judge Claudia Wilkins. Judge Claudia Wilkins, very when you

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Speaker 1: cover this, judge, Yeah, so the n c A is

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Speaker 1: clearly hoping that, you know, as it would happen with

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Speaker 1: with wilkins previous decision on Albannon, once they appeal this

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Speaker 1: and once they get back, you know that that this

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Speaker 1: ends up being paired back in some sense, but a

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Speaker 1: pretty landmark moment for college sports. Finally, in this one,

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Speaker 1: I've got a lot of feelings about Antonio Brown. You

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Speaker 1: know that white out. He has made his way out

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Speaker 1: of Pittsburgh. The Oakland Raiders have reportedly agreed on a

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Speaker 1: deal to acquire that disgruntled wide receiver from the Pittsburgh Steelers.

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Speaker 1: And this is agent Drew Rosenhouse. Antonio had nine great years.

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Speaker 1: Sometimes in life, whether it's sports or business, you have

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Speaker 1: a great relationship, but things happen and you have to

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Speaker 1: move on. And Brown is certainly moving on to a

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Speaker 1: situation very different than what he had with the Steelers.

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Speaker 1: Now there was a chance there he could have gone

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Speaker 1: to Buffalo, but uh, I guess he said, now, I

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Speaker 1: don't want to go to Buffalo when I'm not getting

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Speaker 1: and many what why is he upset? Why? What? What

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Speaker 1: ticked him off? What? Juju Smith Schuster, Ben Roethlisberg. Why

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Speaker 1: do athletes get upset? Michael Barr? Well? What why? I

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Speaker 1: guess it's an ego thing, I guess, But you play

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Speaker 1: a professional? Why do you add? Why do professional athletes

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Speaker 1: get upset? Michael? There's one word. I wanted more money?

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Speaker 1: You know, I will never you gonna can debate this.

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Speaker 1: I will never ever ever. And I'm a you know,

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Speaker 1: I'm a team. Guy, you gotta behave a certain way,

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Speaker 1: but you're part of a team. I will never ever

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Speaker 1: ever side against an NFL player getting whatever he can. Look,

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Speaker 1: I don't have a problem with him getting the money,

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Speaker 1: but there's gotta be more to it than this. Of course,

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Speaker 1: I mean all these so called experts, former g MS

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Speaker 1: presidents of team said there's no way, zero zero, zero

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Speaker 1: zero percent chance that the Steelers will trade him because

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Speaker 1: they will have a huge cap hit. So you're gonna

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Speaker 1: have a huge number on your cap for a guy

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Speaker 1: that's no longer there. You must be one heck of

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Speaker 1: a pain in the rumpus For the Steelers to say

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Speaker 1: we will ship you out and take the hit, it

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Speaker 1: is an addition by subtraction, we do not want you

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Speaker 1: here that bad and the hit is legendary for folks

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Speaker 1: who don't fully understand the deal. Uh, Antonio Brown, one

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Speaker 1: of the best bide receivers in the NFL, traded to

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Speaker 1: the Raiders in return for a third round and a

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Speaker 1: fifth round pick. Right, that's a that's that's nothing. And

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Speaker 1: in addition to that, the Steelers are gonna eat twenty

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Speaker 1: one million, one point one million dollars on their cap.

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Speaker 1: This year. Right, So that's eleven percent of the salary

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Speaker 1: cap that they are essentially lighting on five they can't

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Speaker 1: use it for other things, right that. That's a huge

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Speaker 1: It's a record for the NFL. Right there. There's never

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Speaker 1: been this much dead money that a team has eaten

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Speaker 1: from for a single player. Yeah, poof gone, um and

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Speaker 1: and yeah, this this worked out tremendously well for Antonio

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Speaker 1: Brown right there. There are people out there that will

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Speaker 1: call him a malcontent. They'll say the way he quit

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Speaker 1: on his teammates, that you shouldn't air your grievances on

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Speaker 1: Twitter and Facebook, etcetera. At the end of the day,

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Speaker 1: he got a significant he got he got a significant raise.

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Speaker 1: There's more money coming to a more guaranteed money. UM.

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Speaker 1: He changed teams, which clearly seemed like it was a

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Speaker 1: goal of his. UM. I think if you're Antonio Brown,

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Speaker 1: you're thrilled with this scenario. Um, if you're a Steelers fan,

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Speaker 1: I mean maybe a little bit a little bit less so.

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Speaker 1: But if you look at Antonio Brown's career, just because

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Speaker 1: of the way NFL the contracts are structured, you know,

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Speaker 1: he has been criminally underpaid almost his entire career. UM,

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Speaker 1: He's getting up there now, right, he's thirty thirty one

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Speaker 1: years old something like that, while he's getting getting to

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Speaker 1: the end of it. Um, yeah, I'm with you, Scott,

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Speaker 1: get your money and if you can figure out a

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Speaker 1: way to get an extra thirty million dollars to fourteen

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Speaker 1: kept seven. He's thirty and he's a receiver, take the

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Speaker 1: dough whatever you need to do. I get it. I

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Speaker 1: get make the money. But you signed a contract. You

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Speaker 1: know what, I'm just gonna get all. You're signed a contract.

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Speaker 1: The team can cut him any time. That's how that's

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Speaker 1: that's it's so one sided in the NFL. Contract doesn't

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Speaker 1: does not nothing you have he had. They didn't have

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Speaker 1: to trade him. They just chose to trade. Yeah, and

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Speaker 1: and they the Steelers got it. Just to be clear,

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Speaker 1: the Steelers got into this situation where they have to

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Speaker 1: eat twenty one million dollars of a contract this year

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Speaker 1: because they consistently restructured his deal to create more short

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Speaker 1: term cap space in the meantime, kicking the can down exactly. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: and it and it created a situation where now they're

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Speaker 1: you know again, they're of their salary for next year

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Speaker 1: is just dead. Given to a player who's playing on

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Speaker 1: on an a f C rival. Um. But you know

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Speaker 1: this is a situation partially of the Steeler's own making.

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Speaker 1: This is I'm worked up. This is the Bloomberg Business

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Speaker 1: of Sports podcast. I'm Michael Barra, along with Scott Sasnik

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Speaker 1: and Evan wi Williams. We are here each and every Monday,

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Speaker 1: Wednesday and Thursday exploring the world of money and sports.

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Speaker 1: Join us again at the end of the week when

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Speaker 1: we speak with the biggest and brightest in the sports

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Speaker 1: business industry. You know what, I'm done broadcasting. That's it.

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Speaker 1: I'm done. I want to be traded. I want to

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Speaker 1: go to another network. Now you see how I crazy

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Speaker 1: I sound. No, are you one of the best in

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Speaker 1: the world that your position. You're listening to Bloomberg Video

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Speaker 1: the world and online where you get your podcast