WEBVTT - Organic Panic: A Dietary Dilemma 0:00:03.279 --> 0:00:06.240 Welcome to Stuff to Blow your Mind from how stork 0:00:06.320 --> 0:00:15.480 dot com. Say you're welcome to stuff to blow your mind. 0:00:15.520 --> 0:00:17.960 My name is Robert Lamb, and I am Christian Seger. 0:00:18.040 --> 0:00:20.439 And today we are talking about something that seems like 0:00:20.480 --> 0:00:23.320 it wouldn't blow your mind, but it is really interesting 0:00:23.440 --> 0:00:26.560 and really controversial. Yeah, this is in a way, we're 0:00:26.600 --> 0:00:29.840 kind of walking into a trap here because this is 0:00:30.080 --> 0:00:33.360 a topic that a lot of people have definite opinions on. 0:00:33.479 --> 0:00:35.440 You can even say you have. There's there's a certain 0:00:35.479 --> 0:00:40.520 amount of faith and worldview wrapped up in this topic. Identity. Yeah, 0:00:40.560 --> 0:00:43.800 your identity, how you fit into the world. Uh. And 0:00:43.880 --> 0:00:47.440 also though we have studies a kind of pointing to 0:00:47.520 --> 0:00:51.120 both sides of the argument, the argument of organic foods. Yep, 0:00:51.560 --> 0:00:54.440 we are going to talk about organic food in particular. 0:00:54.440 --> 0:00:58.320 We're gonna look at the scientific studies into its nutrition value, 0:00:58.960 --> 0:01:03.080 also it's effect on the environment and whether pesticides do 0:01:03.160 --> 0:01:05.240 anything to us or not. Yeah, and we're approaching this 0:01:05.280 --> 0:01:08.360 from a you know, a middle path standpoint here. So 0:01:08.440 --> 0:01:11.360 again we're probably gonna piss off everybody. I have a 0:01:11.400 --> 0:01:14.280 feeling that like, if you are hard line in any 0:01:14.319 --> 0:01:16.920 one of those camps you're going to be disappointed. But 0:01:16.959 --> 0:01:19.480 if you're just kind of like I was, approaching this 0:01:19.600 --> 0:01:21.399 like I'm like, you know, I go to the grocery 0:01:21.440 --> 0:01:24.039 store and I see organic and I go, yeah, maybe, 0:01:24.360 --> 0:01:26.480 but you know, I also have to like weigh my 0:01:26.520 --> 0:01:30.200 concerns about costs. Uh. This is maybe going to be 0:01:30.240 --> 0:01:33.600 a better episode for those people, people who haven't made 0:01:33.680 --> 0:01:35.640 up their mind yet and are just kind of generally 0:01:35.720 --> 0:01:39.800 curious about the science behind agriculture in the United States. Yeah, 0:01:39.840 --> 0:01:42.000 and if nothing else, again, we're gonna approach it with 0:01:42.040 --> 0:01:44.559 an open mind and it can be a conversation starter. 0:01:45.120 --> 0:01:47.320 I'm sure everyone will have some feedback on this because 0:01:47.360 --> 0:01:50.520 if nothing else, everybody eats, that's what we all do 0:01:51.120 --> 0:01:54.480 every day. Well, we have to pick out new foods 0:01:54.680 --> 0:01:58.080 with which to essentially construct our new bodies. Were to 0:01:58.240 --> 0:02:00.920 try and put kind of a weird sci fi spin 0:02:01.000 --> 0:02:03.320 on it, we're all kind of we're like that mad 0:02:03.360 --> 0:02:05.560 scientist who's lost his body and it's a brain and 0:02:05.560 --> 0:02:07.640 it's a brain in a jar and he has to go, oh, 0:02:07.680 --> 0:02:08.880 I need a new body. What am I gonna do. 0:02:08.880 --> 0:02:10.399 I'm gonna build it out of corpses, and I'm gonna 0:02:10.400 --> 0:02:12.600 build it out of machine parts or some sort of 0:02:12.680 --> 0:02:15.680 energy force field. We have that similar situation, except we 0:02:15.720 --> 0:02:19.919 have to choose more These carrots are those carrots? Do 0:02:19.960 --> 0:02:22.480 I do? Do I do? Meet? Do I do? Um? 0:02:22.520 --> 0:02:24.840 You know? Sweet? What am I building my new body 0:02:24.840 --> 0:02:27.960 out of tombstone pizzas? I don't know? Uh? Yeah, I'd 0:02:28.000 --> 0:02:30.760 say a good like percent of my body is maybe 0:02:30.840 --> 0:02:35.600 tombstone and red barren um. And so okay, we recognize 0:02:35.639 --> 0:02:38.680 that you may have some strong feelings about this, so 0:02:38.720 --> 0:02:40.720 we figured this is a good point for us to 0:02:41.080 --> 0:02:43.920 at the top remind you of all those places where 0:02:43.960 --> 0:02:46.640 you can tell us what you think about organic food 0:02:46.639 --> 0:02:48.400 and what you think about our take on it. So 0:02:48.919 --> 0:02:51.440 we are stuff to blow your mind, and we are 0:02:51.520 --> 0:02:56.480 on Facebook, Twitter, Tumbler, and Instagram now on all of 0:02:56.520 --> 0:02:59.799 those will blow the mind. Uh, come visit us check 0:02:59.800 --> 0:03:01.960 out the stuff that we're posting there. We don't just 0:03:02.000 --> 0:03:05.320 post about our own podcasts. We also do videos and 0:03:05.360 --> 0:03:07.320 we write articles that stuff goes up there, but we 0:03:07.360 --> 0:03:11.840 also try to curate all the bizarre audity science stuff 0:03:11.880 --> 0:03:15.079 that comes across our path as we're doing research throughout 0:03:15.080 --> 0:03:17.520 the week. So that's a great place to follow us 0:03:17.560 --> 0:03:20.920 and see all the kind of like neat, weird stuff 0:03:20.960 --> 0:03:23.360 that we come up with in our travels, and of 0:03:23.400 --> 0:03:25.440 course there's always stuff to blow your mind. Dot com 0:03:25.560 --> 0:03:28.480 is the mothership. That's where we'll find all the podcast episodes, videos, 0:03:28.480 --> 0:03:31.760 blog post links out to those social media accounts, and hey, 0:03:31.800 --> 0:03:35.120 expect a facelift for that website in the months ahead. 0:03:35.120 --> 0:03:40.119 Everything's getting redone, spruced up, the little more user friendly. Um, 0:03:40.120 --> 0:03:42.040 we're looking forward to that. We had a very exciting 0:03:42.080 --> 0:03:44.280 talk the other day about a potential news stuff to 0:03:44.280 --> 0:03:46.920 blow your mind logo, which I think I'm very excited about. 0:03:47.320 --> 0:03:51.960 Looks very cool. Okay, so organic food, I feel like 0:03:52.040 --> 0:03:54.280 the best place for us to start is just sort 0:03:54.280 --> 0:03:58.160 of an introduction into not what it is, but the 0:03:58.200 --> 0:04:01.520 trajectory of how it became a part of our culture. 0:04:02.200 --> 0:04:05.480 And a lot of this episode will be US centric 0:04:05.520 --> 0:04:09.720 because we're both Americans. We live in America, and a 0:04:09.800 --> 0:04:12.320 lot of the science seems to be done here, even 0:04:12.320 --> 0:04:17.680 though a lot of the food is grown internationally. So 0:04:18.040 --> 0:04:21.599 let's go back traditional farming before the Industrial Revolution in 0:04:21.640 --> 0:04:25.000 the twentieth century. Think The Witch the movie The Witch Right, 0:04:25.040 --> 0:04:28.120 and they're they're growing their pathetic little farm in Massachusetts 0:04:28.120 --> 0:04:32.799 and they're trying to survive. Right. That's organic farming. Uh, 0:04:32.839 --> 0:04:35.600 that's and that's basically what we're talking about going back 0:04:35.640 --> 0:04:39.840 to here because Uh, in the nineteen thirties there were 0:04:39.839 --> 0:04:45.200 two British scientists named Lady Eve Balfour and Albert Howard, 0:04:45.600 --> 0:04:49.279 and they started looking at the role of agricultural production 0:04:49.440 --> 0:04:53.840 in healthy food, and in particular, Howard recommended recycling all 0:04:53.880 --> 0:04:56.880 of our waste, you know, including animal waste and human 0:04:56.920 --> 0:05:00.560 waste basically sewage, so that we could fee the soil 0:05:00.640 --> 0:05:05.240 on our farms. Around the mid twentieth century, incomes the 0:05:05.279 --> 0:05:10.000 influx of chemical pesticides and fertilizers, they started to become 0:05:10.080 --> 0:05:14.479 widespread and organic farming actually took on this weird kind 0:05:14.480 --> 0:05:18.080 of cultish aspect. Like other farmers sort of looked at 0:05:18.120 --> 0:05:21.200 it like why why are you still bothering with that? Like, 0:05:21.560 --> 0:05:23.680 and when they would say things like well, you know, 0:05:23.760 --> 0:05:27.240 I'm worried about these pesticides and the health effects or whatever. Uh, 0:05:27.279 --> 0:05:30.480 they were looked at as proponents of doom and gloom. Well, 0:05:30.480 --> 0:05:32.160 you know, I think it's one thing it's important keep 0:05:32.160 --> 0:05:34.560 in mind about agriculture in general, is just to remind 0:05:34.560 --> 0:05:39.719 everyone that agriculture itself is essentially unnatural, and it's it's 0:05:39.720 --> 0:05:42.560 taking these plants that grow, you know, in a natural balance, 0:05:42.720 --> 0:05:46.320 in a natural situation with other plants, taking and then 0:05:46.320 --> 0:05:50.880 growing them exclusively in a you know, a plot of land. Yeah, totally, 0:05:50.920 --> 0:05:53.520 Like just think of like and we'll talk about these later, 0:05:53.560 --> 0:05:56.640 but like even organic practices like rotating crops in a 0:05:56.680 --> 0:06:01.880 particular way or using predatory animals to pick off the 0:06:02.279 --> 0:06:07.120 pests rather than using pesticides, like you're affecting the ecosystem 0:06:07.200 --> 0:06:10.200 one way or the other. Yeah, you're still manipulating the environment. 0:06:10.240 --> 0:06:12.840 And so what we're talking about with agriculture in channel, 0:06:12.839 --> 0:06:15.320 it's just like to what degree or manipulating the environment, 0:06:15.360 --> 0:06:17.640 what tools are using to manipulate the environment, and on 0:06:17.760 --> 0:06:21.640 what scale. Absolutely so in the sixties and seventies, this 0:06:21.680 --> 0:06:24.440 movement really picks up the organic farming movement. And the 0:06:24.480 --> 0:06:27.320 reason why is because this book comes out by Rachel 0:06:27.400 --> 0:06:30.560 Carson called Silent Spring. It sounds like a horror movie. 0:06:31.200 --> 0:06:34.279 But no, maybe it is. Maybe it's written as a 0:06:34.279 --> 0:06:40.040 horror movie. Organic food produce organic Yeah, maybe wow, that 0:06:40.200 --> 0:06:42.680 that's write that one down. Put a copyright next to it. 0:06:44.320 --> 0:06:47.920 Uh So, Basically, this book emphasized all the problems with pesticides. 0:06:48.200 --> 0:06:51.480 At the same time, the United States was facing two problems, 0:06:51.600 --> 0:06:55.560 water pollution from farming and the energy crisis in the seventies. 0:06:55.920 --> 0:06:59.560 So farmers were like, well, maybe we will start using 0:06:59.560 --> 0:07:02.560 fewer michals just because of these things going on. Now, 0:07:02.600 --> 0:07:06.000 I'm gonna burn through history real quick here. Okay, nineteen 0:07:06.040 --> 0:07:09.240 eighty the U. S Department of Agriculture starts actually getting 0:07:09.279 --> 0:07:11.920 interested in organic farming, and they publish a report on it. 0:07:12.200 --> 0:07:15.120 A year later, in nineteen eighty one, the American Society 0:07:15.160 --> 0:07:21.560 for Agronomy argued that organic farming contributed more to sustainable agriculture. However, 0:07:21.960 --> 0:07:25.480 they had clashes with the Reagan administration and so some 0:07:25.560 --> 0:07:27.640 of that stuff didn't necessarily make it to the public 0:07:27.680 --> 0:07:30.560 as quickly as they wanted it to. By the time 0:07:30.600 --> 0:07:32.560 we get to the late eighties and the nineties, and 0:07:32.600 --> 0:07:35.040 I remember these these times, well, this was really when 0:07:35.080 --> 0:07:37.720 I started first hearing a lot about organic farming, and 0:07:37.800 --> 0:07:42.840 I was a teenager. Um, the environmental movement really started 0:07:42.840 --> 0:07:47.480 to gain sway. There were practices and emphasis on maintaining 0:07:47.560 --> 0:07:52.720 bio diversity, animal welfare, and fair trade practices. That gets 0:07:52.880 --> 0:07:56.160 us to two thousand two. This is when the U. 0:07:56.280 --> 0:07:59.320 S d A created what are known as the National 0:07:59.520 --> 0:08:04.920 Organic Standards, and those overrite any state regulations and create 0:08:04.960 --> 0:08:07.040 the labeling system that we use now. So when you 0:08:07.080 --> 0:08:08.520 go to the grocery store and you look at a 0:08:08.600 --> 0:08:11.800 label on produce or meat or whatever about what it's 0:08:11.880 --> 0:08:16.000 organic content, that's because of these National Organic Standards. And 0:08:16.040 --> 0:08:18.280 I'm gonna buzz through them real quick, but they're important 0:08:18.320 --> 0:08:20.480 to think about when you, like, I'm glad I read 0:08:20.560 --> 0:08:22.360 this stuff next time in the grocery store, I'm definitely 0:08:22.360 --> 0:08:25.920 gonna consider it. Okay, if it says a hundred percent organic, 0:08:26.360 --> 0:08:29.760 that means the product was made only with organic products. 0:08:31.280 --> 0:08:34.360 Products that say they are just organic, but they don't 0:08:34.400 --> 0:08:39.040 say a hundred percent organic, they have to have ent 0:08:39.320 --> 0:08:45.560 organic ingredients. And then if they quote contain organic products, 0:08:46.240 --> 0:08:49.600 then they have to have at least seventy percent organic 0:08:49.880 --> 0:08:53.160 ingredients in them. If there's under seventy, you don't get 0:08:53.200 --> 0:08:55.080 a label, no label for you. You You don't you don't 0:08:55.080 --> 0:08:57.360 get to advertise this. Now. One thing that's important to 0:08:57.400 --> 0:08:59.920 remember that I read here is that the U. S 0:09:00.120 --> 0:09:04.160 A does not regulate farmers who are producing. I believe 0:09:04.200 --> 0:09:07.960 it's under five thousand units. So you know, if you're 0:09:07.960 --> 0:09:09.400 just like if you have a small farm and you 0:09:09.440 --> 0:09:11.480 go to a farmer's market and you're selling your wares, 0:09:12.080 --> 0:09:15.120 I suppose you could make your own stickers that say organic, 0:09:15.240 --> 0:09:17.880 even if you're you know, spraying chemicals all over them. 0:09:18.600 --> 0:09:21.360 That seems unlikely right now. And on the chemical note, 0:09:21.400 --> 0:09:24.439 it is worth noting here, I think it's important that 0:09:24.520 --> 0:09:29.800 when we're talking about organic farming and conventional farming, because 0:09:29.800 --> 0:09:31.439 because you know, it comes back to the whole thing 0:09:31.440 --> 0:09:35.000 like like what is organic often feels like a weird 0:09:35.120 --> 0:09:38.599 label because it's not like the alternative is inorganic, so 0:09:38.720 --> 0:09:42.839 you're eating metal. But anyway, so, conventional farmers they can 0:09:42.880 --> 0:09:46.520 apply any pesticide approved for use in the United States. Uh, 0:09:46.600 --> 0:09:49.320 it doesn't mean they can just apply anything. There's oldest Okay, 0:09:49.600 --> 0:09:53.480 organic farmers they can't use all of the same chemicals. 0:09:53.640 --> 0:09:56.679 Now that doesn't mean organic farmers, um, you know, allow 0:09:56.760 --> 0:10:00.839 insect pests and weeds to just run rampant. Uh. And 0:10:00.840 --> 0:10:03.680 and they can also use pesticides and weed killers, but 0:10:03.720 --> 0:10:07.040 they have a smaller list of approved substances to use. 0:10:07.400 --> 0:10:11.160 Right So when you're buying organic, it doesn't necessarily mean 0:10:11.440 --> 0:10:15.960 pesticide free. It just means different pesticides. And there's something 0:10:16.000 --> 0:10:17.760 to be said about that too, that will will delve 0:10:17.760 --> 0:10:19.840 into a little bit more later in the episode as well, 0:10:19.880 --> 0:10:23.400 and that like, you can be growing crops organically in 0:10:23.559 --> 0:10:27.760 soil that maybe used to have pesticides, and those pesticides 0:10:27.800 --> 0:10:30.240 can stick around for a couple of years. Indeed, so 0:10:30.320 --> 0:10:33.120 here we are. It's twice sixteen, and food safety is 0:10:33.160 --> 0:10:36.000 still a concern, right, We're all worried about it. Especially. 0:10:36.040 --> 0:10:38.680 I thought of you quite a bit during this episode 0:10:38.679 --> 0:10:41.560 because you have a young child, and I would imagine that, uh, 0:10:41.760 --> 0:10:43.160 you know, if I were a parent, I would be 0:10:43.200 --> 0:10:47.200 thinking what should I put in this little person's body? Right? Yeah, 0:10:47.240 --> 0:10:49.200 I mean that that is always that has been on 0:10:49.200 --> 0:10:51.599 our minds since that I came into a lot of 0:10:51.679 --> 0:10:54.160 terrible way to go about talking about feeding a child. 0:10:54.280 --> 0:10:57.840 But yes, yeah, I mean, well, you're you have all this, 0:10:58.000 --> 0:11:00.320 all all of this emotion and energy and time and 0:11:00.360 --> 0:11:03.880 money invested in this child, and you want, you absolutely 0:11:03.880 --> 0:11:06.920 want everything to be best for the child, and then 0:11:06.960 --> 0:11:09.640 you find yourself in the situation where you're like a dude, 0:11:09.920 --> 0:11:13.840 he wants he wants these susages. Well, maybe maybe soysagees 0:11:13.880 --> 0:11:15.480 in a good example, because I feel like most of 0:11:15.480 --> 0:11:18.439 the soysage options are probably organic. But al right, so 0:11:18.520 --> 0:11:21.080 let's see, you're buying fruit because the kid eats the 0:11:21.120 --> 0:11:23.319 colossal amount of fruit, and you're like, do I get 0:11:23.360 --> 0:11:26.360 them the organic bananas and the normal bananas? I want 0:11:26.400 --> 0:11:28.400 him to have the best, But doesn't make that much 0:11:28.400 --> 0:11:32.240 of a difference, And then you end up, yeah, you 0:11:32.320 --> 0:11:34.640 gotta you gotta think about how this colossal amount of 0:11:34.640 --> 0:11:38.360 fruit he's eating costs money, and then you if you 0:11:38.400 --> 0:11:41.000 if I get the organic? Sometimes I feel like I 0:11:41.280 --> 0:11:44.000 doubt myself. Am I engaging in his magical thinking? Here? 0:11:44.000 --> 0:11:46.800 Am I sort of curbing my bets like someone who 0:11:46.880 --> 0:11:49.320 just goes ahead and prays to a few different gods 0:11:49.360 --> 0:11:51.520 in case they're there, you know, like, in case it 0:11:51.559 --> 0:11:53.440 makes the difference, I'll go ahead and spend the money 0:11:53.440 --> 0:11:56.400 on the organic. But is there any is there any 0:11:56.440 --> 0:11:59.200 science backing me up on this? So if you're like 0:11:59.360 --> 0:12:01.760 Robber and are out there and maybe you're thinking about 0:12:01.760 --> 0:12:03.640 that for yourself, or maybe you're thinking about it for 0:12:03.679 --> 0:12:05.880 your children or or jeesus, I don't know, Like I 0:12:05.880 --> 0:12:08.360 imagine some people even think about this with their pets. 0:12:08.400 --> 0:12:11.240 To write like organic food and pet food is probably 0:12:11.240 --> 0:12:14.120 a big deal. UH, because as well discussed too, it's 0:12:14.160 --> 0:12:17.680 like gets, they're they're sort of different sides to want 0:12:17.800 --> 0:12:20.200 you buy organic. They're sort of the there the user 0:12:20.720 --> 0:12:23.200 uh ended the version of it like houses affecting me, 0:12:23.240 --> 0:12:25.520 houses affecting the child or the pet. But then there's 0:12:25.559 --> 0:12:28.600 also the production level of it. You want to you're 0:12:28.600 --> 0:12:32.000 buying a product that is the end result of one 0:12:32.160 --> 0:12:36.000 version of the agricultural industry, and you are buying a 0:12:36.040 --> 0:12:40.240 product in theory that reflects your ideals for that industry. 0:12:40.320 --> 0:12:44.000 It's actually a perfect segue into paper that I looked 0:12:44.040 --> 0:12:48.720 into for this episode. UH. It in particular looked at 0:12:48.800 --> 0:12:53.880 the advertising of organic food and uh specifically how it 0:12:53.960 --> 0:12:59.640 highlighted both personal and environmental concerns in tandem. UH. And 0:12:59.720 --> 0:13:02.600 now that way is the most influential way to get 0:13:02.640 --> 0:13:07.160 consumers to buy organic food, especially when the promotional messages 0:13:07.200 --> 0:13:10.520 align with the core values of consumers culture. Right so 0:13:10.600 --> 0:13:14.880 here in America, UH, where we align with what in 0:13:14.920 --> 0:13:18.200 the article is referred to as egoism. UH. And we 0:13:18.280 --> 0:13:20.920 like to think that we align with altruism as well. Right, 0:13:21.160 --> 0:13:24.240 And those are the two ways sure fire ways to 0:13:24.320 --> 0:13:26.880 get somebody to buy organic food is to make them 0:13:26.880 --> 0:13:29.360 think about themselves and what's good for them, and then 0:13:29.360 --> 0:13:32.440 to make them think that they're thinking about the welfare 0:13:32.480 --> 0:13:35.520 of others around them. Uh. And so if you get 0:13:35.600 --> 0:13:38.720 that's the one two punch that will sell organic every 0:13:38.720 --> 0:13:42.280 time apparently, and selling organic, I mean that's that's a 0:13:42.360 --> 0:13:45.240 key point here as well, because it's not just you know, 0:13:45.240 --> 0:13:47.760 a bunch of roadside farmers, you know, maybe putting a 0:13:47.760 --> 0:13:50.480 sticker on something. We're talking about an industry that in 0:13:50.520 --> 0:13:53.640 two thousand twelve was a reported twenty nine billion dollar 0:13:53.679 --> 0:13:58.840 industry and according to Euromonitor International, just one source. Uh, 0:13:59.400 --> 0:14:02.680 they claim that by two thousand seventeen, this could be 0:14:02.720 --> 0:14:06.160 a trillion dollar global industry. We need to get some 0:14:06.360 --> 0:14:11.560 organic food sponsors. You need to get on it. Yeah, 0:14:11.600 --> 0:14:13.280 there's a lot of there's a lot of mon today. 0:14:13.320 --> 0:14:15.480 I don't think our food oriented, but I'm going to 0:14:15.559 --> 0:14:17.280 have a talk with them. Well, we have some coming 0:14:17.320 --> 0:14:19.120 up coming along. I think we do have some food 0:14:19.120 --> 0:14:21.880 sponsors coming up. But you know, the key here is 0:14:21.920 --> 0:14:24.400 that when someone is selling you organic. Yeah, there are 0:14:24.560 --> 0:14:27.400 marketing firms involved here, There are graphic designers involved here. 0:14:27.600 --> 0:14:30.880 All the energy and manipulation that goes into selling you 0:14:30.960 --> 0:14:33.720 absolutely anything is in play here. If you've got the 0:14:33.760 --> 0:14:36.640 government involved, it's a big enough industry for them to 0:14:36.680 --> 0:14:40.000 be paying attention. And uh, you know, call me liberal, 0:14:40.080 --> 0:14:43.280 but I am glad when the government is regulating what 0:14:43.440 --> 0:14:47.200 goes into my food, like, I'll take it. Uh. There 0:14:47.200 --> 0:14:49.000 may be some farmers out there that don't like that, 0:14:49.080 --> 0:14:51.920 but but it gives me a little bit of peace 0:14:51.960 --> 0:14:57.600 of mind. So backing that up, poll showed that forty 0:14:57.720 --> 0:15:01.200 five percent of Americans are actively see can to incorporate 0:15:01.280 --> 0:15:03.920 organic food into their diet. This isn't just like I'm 0:15:03.960 --> 0:15:05.840 going to the grocery store and I see the organic 0:15:05.880 --> 0:15:09.000 avocados next to the regular avocados and I grab organic. 0:15:09.200 --> 0:15:11.240 They're going to the grocery store with a list that 0:15:11.320 --> 0:15:14.880 says organic avocados on it, right, like they want to 0:15:14.920 --> 0:15:17.960 put it in their diet. In it was projected that 0:15:18.040 --> 0:15:22.040 the organic food industry would see a sixteen percent growth 0:15:22.160 --> 0:15:25.120 rate going into So that's leading us to that one 0:15:25.160 --> 0:15:29.600 trillion dollar number. Man, put that into perspective, the average 0:15:29.640 --> 0:15:35.320 American household spends four thousand dollars more a year on 0:15:35.480 --> 0:15:38.840 organic food than unconventional food. That probably matches up with 0:15:38.880 --> 0:15:42.160 our fruit badget I think for this for this kid, Wow, yeah, 0:15:42.360 --> 0:15:44.760 he's just a he's just all made of fruit. That's 0:15:44.880 --> 0:15:47.200 that's well. From what I know about your kid, he 0:15:47.240 --> 0:15:52.840 really likes bananas and giraffes. So yeah, yeah, bananas and drafts. 0:15:53.040 --> 0:15:56.240 He only eats bananas. Were not actively buying a black 0:15:56.280 --> 0:15:58.520 market if you but yeah, but if you did, if 0:15:58.560 --> 0:16:04.240 you organic giraffe meat, alright, only the best. So what 0:16:03.880 --> 0:16:06.560 we we talked a little bit about the whole U. 0:16:06.680 --> 0:16:09.320 S d A thing, But what exactly is organic food? 0:16:09.360 --> 0:16:12.960 You know? Like, what's the difference here? Yeah? I mean 0:16:13.000 --> 0:16:15.840 that's the question we all end up asking ourselves when 0:16:15.840 --> 0:16:17.600 we're we're in the line, you know it is it 0:16:17.720 --> 0:16:19.720 what is the difference? Or am I just paying extra 0:16:19.760 --> 0:16:23.040 so I don't have to think about what the difference is. Well, 0:16:24.040 --> 0:16:27.200 So a lot of the like history and basic breakdown 0:16:27.240 --> 0:16:30.440 stuff that we're giving you here comes from the Salem 0:16:30.440 --> 0:16:35.760 Press Encyclopedia entry on organic food and the debate in particular, 0:16:36.040 --> 0:16:38.760 But we also looked at I would say another god 0:16:38.840 --> 0:16:42.440 like twelve twenty studies of what's going on with organic 0:16:42.480 --> 0:16:46.600 food in science in particular, organic food is any crop 0:16:46.880 --> 0:16:52.920 or animal product that's produced without pesticides, man made fertilizers, additives, 0:16:53.040 --> 0:16:57.600 or growth regulators. So we're talking about fruits, vegetables, grains, dairy, 0:16:57.880 --> 0:17:01.120 and meat. Now, So me being the vegetarian on the show, 0:17:01.200 --> 0:17:03.960 I was like, oh right, meat, Like I didn't even 0:17:04.040 --> 0:17:06.800 realize that you could buy organic meat, but that makes sense. 0:17:06.880 --> 0:17:09.439 Oh yeah, I mean, I mean the whole meat. The 0:17:09.480 --> 0:17:12.120 whole meat issue is a kind of a subject unto itself, right, 0:17:12.560 --> 0:17:15.480 because you you get into issues of not only like 0:17:15.480 --> 0:17:18.320 like the organic aspects of the food, but also the 0:17:18.840 --> 0:17:22.760 you know, how are the animals treated, what were they fed? Yeah, 0:17:23.160 --> 0:17:26.240 so that's that's almost a whole podcast onto itself. Yeah. 0:17:26.600 --> 0:17:30.399 So the idea here originally was to encourage soil and 0:17:30.440 --> 0:17:34.960 water conservation, go back to that seventies thing with water crisis, uh, 0:17:35.000 --> 0:17:39.040 and reduce pollution. So they started using natural fertilizers to 0:17:39.160 --> 0:17:44.400 feed soil and plants. Also included, sorry, also excluded from 0:17:44.440 --> 0:17:50.400 the organic food category would be genetically engineered feuds. That's 0:17:50.400 --> 0:17:56.560 another episode. Genetically engineered foods, human sewage and their radiation 0:17:57.000 --> 0:17:59.880 that kills germs and bacteria. So you you know, if 0:18:00.000 --> 0:18:02.600 it's just a swamp things situation waiting to happen, right, 0:18:03.240 --> 0:18:06.679 toxic avengers, I think. But but seriously, yeah, so like 0:18:06.760 --> 0:18:10.280 those uh, I think of those like weird foods that 0:18:10.720 --> 0:18:12.679 had started popping up in grocery stores that are like 0:18:13.600 --> 0:18:17.000 giant versions of the fruit that like we used to buy, 0:18:17.119 --> 0:18:19.639 you know, the apples that are like twice the size 0:18:19.640 --> 0:18:21.720 and globe bright red and it's like, oh, they look 0:18:21.760 --> 0:18:24.720 super pretty well that's because they're genetically modified and I radiated, 0:18:24.800 --> 0:18:26.679 or yeah, they're the kind of apples that I remember 0:18:26.680 --> 0:18:29.160 hearing they would they would have them on set for 0:18:29.320 --> 0:18:33.160 mad Men, and they would have their their their historical 0:18:33.200 --> 0:18:36.520 accuracy department would come in and say no, no big, 0:18:36.600 --> 0:18:39.800 Yeah they're too big, Like no, no, apple um would 0:18:39.840 --> 0:18:43.000 have been this size. That's funny or like, uh, you know, 0:18:43.080 --> 0:18:46.280 I I shouldn't say this. And also I'll just throw 0:18:46.320 --> 0:18:48.520 out there that I don't know whether these are genetically 0:18:48.560 --> 0:18:51.119 modified or not, or if it's just a hybrid fruit. 0:18:51.200 --> 0:18:53.439 But grapples. Have you ever had one of those before? 0:18:53.800 --> 0:18:57.480 It's like a grape apple combination. Yeah? Are they the 0:18:57.520 --> 0:18:59.360 size of a grape, so like an apple the size 0:18:59.400 --> 0:19:02.720 of a grape or more like a smaller apple, if 0:19:02.880 --> 0:19:05.440 remember correctly. Yeah, I don't think I don't remember trying 0:19:05.440 --> 0:19:08.399 that one. Yeah. Well, you know, I don't know necessarily 0:19:08.400 --> 0:19:10.480 that that would be considered organic, but I'm sure that 0:19:10.600 --> 0:19:13.400 there is a organic way to produce such a thing 0:19:13.440 --> 0:19:18.159 if you're I don't know, holistically growing them together anyway. 0:19:18.520 --> 0:19:21.560 So for pest control, these organic farmers they say what 0:19:21.720 --> 0:19:24.080 they follow that guy's advice, like I Howard, and they 0:19:24.200 --> 0:19:29.639 use biological means crop rotation and animal maneuver uh. And 0:19:29.680 --> 0:19:31.960 like I mentioned before, the U. S d A has 0:19:32.320 --> 0:19:36.080 strict governmental standards about what qualifies was organic. You don't 0:19:36.080 --> 0:19:38.320 get that seal without meeting with the U. S d A. 0:19:38.960 --> 0:19:43.280 Now here's the thing. It's voluntary, but many producers use it. 0:19:43.400 --> 0:19:47.040 Why because of the marketing value right like wild It's 0:19:47.080 --> 0:19:49.679 like if you're a farmer and you say, you know what, 0:19:49.800 --> 0:19:52.480 I'm gonna like change this whole production method that we're doing, 0:19:53.080 --> 0:19:56.280 uh to organic. You're doing it because you recognize that 0:19:56.320 --> 0:19:58.560 there's value in the market. Yeah, and you're creating a 0:19:58.560 --> 0:20:01.080 premium product that you can then they can then sell 0:20:01.119 --> 0:20:04.840 at a premium price. One last thing keep in mind 0:20:04.840 --> 0:20:10.040 throughout this podcast, the words natural and organic are not 0:20:10.280 --> 0:20:13.679 interchangeable terms. Okay, so when we're talking about organic, that 0:20:13.720 --> 0:20:18.439 doesn't necessarily mean natural. Right, And to go back to 0:20:18.480 --> 0:20:21.879 my earlier point, if you want to get serious about agriculture, 0:20:22.000 --> 0:20:26.440 and uh, just about anything in agriculture is not natural 0:20:26.960 --> 0:20:31.080 unless you're walking, you know, unless it's like hunter gathering level. Yeah. Yeah. 0:20:31.080 --> 0:20:33.560 We actually did an episode of brain Stuff that was 0:20:33.600 --> 0:20:36.520 sort of about like, uh, you know, if the world ends, 0:20:36.520 --> 0:20:38.800 like how do I go about foraging for food? And 0:20:38.840 --> 0:20:41.320 I did all the research and for the outline for it. 0:20:41.320 --> 0:20:44.800 It's pretty fascinating, but like, yeah, it's hard to find. Like, 0:20:45.040 --> 0:20:47.480 dandelions are one of the few things that you can 0:20:47.520 --> 0:20:50.000 just eat, but you can't eat them if they're like 0:20:50.040 --> 0:20:54.320 within something like fifty meters of any road or or 0:20:54.480 --> 0:20:58.440 human environment, like like even a farm, because of the 0:20:58.440 --> 0:21:01.720 potential chemicals that could uh travel on the air and 0:21:01.760 --> 0:21:06.120 get on them. So go dandelions. All right, We're gonna 0:21:06.160 --> 0:21:08.200 take a quick break, and when we come back, we're 0:21:08.240 --> 0:21:10.879 going to look at some of the science behind the 0:21:10.920 --> 0:21:15.800 pros and the cons for organic foods. Essentially, the scientific 0:21:15.880 --> 0:21:18.240 argument that is still going on at the end of 0:21:18.280 --> 0:21:19.879 this episode. You're still gonna have to make up your 0:21:19.880 --> 0:21:22.359 own mind. So so don't worry. We're not we won't 0:21:22.359 --> 0:21:23.840 do it for We're not going to do an attempt 0:21:23.840 --> 0:21:26.119 to do it for you. But yeah, quick break, and 0:21:26.119 --> 0:21:33.600 then we're right back in it. All right, we're back. 0:21:33.680 --> 0:21:36.240 So yeah, let's talk about some of the pros and 0:21:36.280 --> 0:21:39.240 cons here. Let's start with Now, let's let's be positive, 0:21:39.280 --> 0:21:42.520 and let's start with the pros. What the science telling 0:21:42.640 --> 0:21:49.000 us about the advantages of organic food Well, proponents say 0:21:49.240 --> 0:21:56.679 that organic farming reduces the environmental impact and protects the soil. However, 0:21:56.760 --> 0:22:00.800 experiments show over a number of years there is a 0:22:00.960 --> 0:22:05.960 nine seven percent reduction in pesticides and organic fields. So okay, 0:22:05.960 --> 0:22:09.359 so that's good, right, a majority. And this is this 0:22:09.400 --> 0:22:13.480 gets back to people with children. A majority of pesticides 0:22:13.520 --> 0:22:18.400 that are found in infants and kids originate from their diet, 0:22:18.680 --> 0:22:21.760