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Speaker 1: It is Friday Eve here on the Don Lemon Show.

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Speaker 1: Thank you for joining us Lemon Live at five. What

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Speaker 1: a day, What a day? With a day? I am

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Speaker 1: fighting a cold. I told my guests, who's gonna come

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Speaker 1: up wait to hear who it is that I'm hopped

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Speaker 1: up on so much cold medicine or sinuses or whatever

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Speaker 1: it is I took. I did the COVID test. I

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Speaker 1: told you guys that negative I did. Thank goodness. The

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Speaker 1: COVID test also had flu a B on it or whatever. Negative.

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Speaker 1: It's just a good old fashioned cold and a lot

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Speaker 1: of folks are suffering or sinuses or something, so liking

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Speaker 1: thumbs up, it affects the algorithm. Thank you so much.

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Speaker 1: Our legends are here today as well. We're going to

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Speaker 1: hear from them and we're going to talk about everything

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Speaker 1: that is going down in the news. So thank you

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Speaker 1: so much for joining so today. You know, the ceasefire,

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Speaker 1: I don't know. I went out to ask people today

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Speaker 1: about it, ceasefire, and they're like, what ceasefire? There's no

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Speaker 1: ceasefire holding I guess barely if you want to put

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Speaker 1: it in sort of corporate new media, and you know,

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Speaker 1: political apparatus for Trump is Israel bomb Lebanon again this morning,

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Speaker 1: has Balla fired back JD. Vance, who is now heading

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Speaker 1: to Islamabad on Saturday. He's going to try to negotiate

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Speaker 1: some sort of peace. I'm wondering as the president's setting

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Speaker 1: him up. I don't know, he described meaning. JD. Van

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Speaker 1: subscribed the whole mess as a misunderstanding. One hundred and

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Speaker 1: eighty two people dead in Lebanon yesterday a misunderstanding. That's crazy.

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Speaker 1: And then so this afternoon, like nobody saw this coming.

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Speaker 1: And I'm not being sarcastic, I'm not being snarky. Nobody

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Speaker 1: saw this coming. You can't get this out of the headlines,

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Speaker 1: no matter how hard they try, even if they try

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Speaker 1: to distract us with a war. Milania Trump, of all people,

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Speaker 1: walked into the Grand Fury of the White House and

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Speaker 1: said the lies she talked about Epstein like I thought,

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Speaker 1: sh don't talk about Epstein, said that the lies linking

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Speaker 1: her to Jeffrey Epstein need to end today. She did

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Speaker 1: that unannounced. Several of her own aides didn't know what

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Speaker 1: she was going to say. She said Epstein didn't introduce

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Speaker 1: her to Trump. Fine. She says she's never been named

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Speaker 1: in any court documents or victim statements. That's true and

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Speaker 1: it matters. But she also addressed the email, the one

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Speaker 1: released by the Justice Department written to Glenn Maxwell talking

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Speaker 1: about a magazine article about Jeb which is Jeffrey Epstein,

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Speaker 1: I one would assume, asking about Palm Beach, signed Love Millenia.

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Speaker 1: She called it a casual correspondence, a trivial note. And

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Speaker 1: then and then this part she called on Congress the

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Speaker 1: whole public hearings for Epstein survivors. Democrats immediately said, yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 1: So the first lady on the same day her husband

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Speaker 1: is selling a ceasefire victory to the world, just handed

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Speaker 1: the opposition a public Epstein hearing on a silver platter.

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Speaker 1: I don't know what's happening at that in the White House.

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Speaker 1: But between a misunderstanding that killed one hundred and eighty

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Speaker 1: two people and love Milania to Glenn Maxwell today is

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Speaker 1: a lot. And perhaps Steve Schmidt, the co founder of

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Speaker 1: the Lincoln Project and the amazingly successful and illuminating podcast

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Speaker 1: The Warning of Excuse Me, Substack, The Warning joins us. Now, Steve,

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Speaker 1: thanks for joining out of where do we start? Do

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Speaker 1: we start with Milania? You want to start with the war,

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Speaker 1: But I'm milania, what what? What? What got into her?

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Speaker 1: What's happening?

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Speaker 2: You asked me a question right before we started first off,

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Speaker 2: good to see.

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Speaker 1: Don Good to see you. Thank you. Ask me a.

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Speaker 2: Question right before we story. You were like, is it

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Speaker 2: possible that nobody in the White House had any idea

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Speaker 2: she was going to do this? And my initial reaction

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Speaker 2: to that was yeah, it just seems to me. It

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Speaker 2: feels like one of those things when you work in

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Speaker 2: the White House that happens that you have no idea

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Speaker 2: about where You're just like, wtf just happened? And so

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Speaker 2: she goes out there and defies a lot of photographic

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Speaker 2: evidence that she didn't have a relationship with these people.

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Speaker 2: She had a deep relationship with Jeffrey Epstein and with

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Speaker 2: Gislain Maxwell. And I know that, and you know that,

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Speaker 2: and the legends know that, and everybody knows that because

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Speaker 2: we've read the files that have been released by the Way,

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Speaker 2: which account for only half the files which have been released,

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Speaker 2: and a lot of these victims have NDA agreements with

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Speaker 2: their abusers. Many of them were identified publicly by the

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Speaker 2: incompetence and the amorality by which all of this was handled.

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Speaker 2: By the pan Bondi Justice Department. They don't want to

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Speaker 2: be in public hearings the victims having asked for congressional hearings.

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Speaker 2: Everybody knows what happened to the victims. The issue here

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Speaker 2: is who abused those victims, and we get to that

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Speaker 2: with a full release of the files. And by the way,

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Speaker 2: we know that there are few people who appear more

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Speaker 2: in those files than Epstein's best friend, Malania's husband Trump,

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Speaker 2: who was investigated by the FBI for assaulting and abusing

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Speaker 2: and praying on a thirteen year old. The FBI interviewed

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Speaker 2: that minor thirteen year old multiple times, found those allegations

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Speaker 2: credible enough to keep investigating. And so Melania Trump here

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Speaker 2: in this statement, from the pretense, the arrogance, the walk

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Speaker 2: on as if she's the head of state, presidential seal

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Speaker 2: affixed to her podium, this isn't an official event, this

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Speaker 2: isn't a White House event, and she's not co president.

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Speaker 2: It's a really astounding assertion. I think of her ego

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Speaker 2: and maybe of a very guilty conscience. But once again,

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Speaker 2: the main story here is there's a Trump in front

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Speaker 2: of a camera who's lying because she clearly has a

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Speaker 2: relationship with these people.

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Speaker 1: Well, you're right that you know the walk on. I

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Speaker 1: noticed when that she walked out, and I was like,

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Speaker 1: what is this? Is this like a is she going

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Speaker 1: to announce her presidency? Is she going to do something

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Speaker 1: about the war?

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Speaker 2: Like?

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Speaker 1: What was this?

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Speaker 2: She's got the seal on the podium and that's the

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Speaker 2: that's the seal that would be a fixed, for example,

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Speaker 2: to the podium if the Canadian head of government, the

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Speaker 2: Prime minister was here, if Netan Yahoo was here, if

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Speaker 2: the British Prime Minister was here. She's not entitled to

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Speaker 2: its use in that situation. I think that she has

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Speaker 2: an appreciation. It should go without saying that her poll numbers,

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Speaker 2: which are abysmal at record lows, the most unpopular first

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Speaker 2: lady in American history and then some. But all of

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Speaker 2: it takes place in the context of this nearly one

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Speaker 2: hundred million dollar movie that no one wanted to see,

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Speaker 2: that was no audience for it anywhere. And you know,

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Speaker 2: in the aftermath of all of that, there's all of.

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Speaker 1: This is this reputation rehab or poll number rehabs. Let's

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Speaker 1: play the poll numbers and then you can answer that question.

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Speaker 1: On the other side, I have to ask you some

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Speaker 1: some other stuff. I want to get back to the

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Speaker 1: did he know or not? But these are the This

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Speaker 1: is CNN reporting on his poll numbers.

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Speaker 3: What is her poll numbers, Helonia Trump, and how her

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Speaker 3: polling is shifting.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, I would say that the American people really don't

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Speaker 4: care for Milania Trump. Take a look at this, all right,

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Speaker 4: Let's take a look at Malania Trump's net favorable ratings.

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Speaker 4: Look at this, the lowest ever, the lowest ever. We're

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Speaker 4: talking about now twelve points underwater. If you go back

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Speaker 4: a little bit more than a year ago, she was

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Speaker 4: three points above water. You go back at this point,

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Speaker 4: about this point and term number one for Donald Trump.

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Speaker 4: Look at that, she was thirty points above water. So

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Speaker 4: at this point historic lows for Milania Trump.

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Speaker 2: These numbers are absolutely awful.

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Speaker 1: One of the questions is, Okay, why why that's good? Yeah,

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Speaker 1: so she's right. The question is why is it because

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Speaker 1: people smell a rat that they know something is up

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Speaker 1: with Donald Trump? They're sick of his shenanigans, and she's

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Speaker 1: she keeps standing by her man like, what is it?

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Speaker 1: Why are her numbers because it's not usually that bad

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Speaker 1: for her.

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Speaker 2: With the country's gotten to know her. The country's figured

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Speaker 2: it out and and truly there's just nothing there, just ice,

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Speaker 2: coldness be best. She is a force wrapped in an

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Speaker 2: office that doesn't really exist, the office of first Lady.

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Speaker 2: This demented man, this obscene marriage, his long legacy of abuse.

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Speaker 2: She is an apologist for it. She is corrupt, She

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Speaker 2: is a grifter like him. And in the end, she's delusional.

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Speaker 2: When you when you look back a few weeks ago

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Speaker 2: at her speech where she talked about how lonely it

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Speaker 2: is at the top and her life is a visionary Uh,

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Speaker 2: she's She's as delusional as any person in that high

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Speaker 2: Trump orbit, which is saying something and you can tell

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Speaker 2: the degree of the delusion from the walk on. I mean,

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Speaker 2: imagine what it was like to be in the planning

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Speaker 2: meetings for this event with the staff as they're rehearsing

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Speaker 2: the speech. Delusional.

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Speaker 1: Well, the weird thing for me is that when you

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Speaker 1: talked about that, whether they know or not, and as

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Speaker 1: usual with this White House, with this administration, conflicting reports, Steve,

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Speaker 1: this was the first report and from someone who was

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Speaker 1: with the president, I believe roll it.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, Nicole, that is the question that we're all asking today.

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Speaker 5: In fact, I just got off a very quick call

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Speaker 5: before we went to air with President Trump, who said

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Speaker 5: he was in the middle of a war meeting and

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Speaker 5: that he couldn't talk for very long and had ago,

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Speaker 5: but that actually he had no prior knowledge to the

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Speaker 5: topic that Milania Trump, his wife, was going to be

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Speaker 5: touching upon today in his statement. In her statement, he

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Speaker 5: then repeated that he had to go. Before we hung

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Speaker 5: up the phone. He said that she didn't know him,

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Speaker 5: presumably referring to Jeffrey Epstein.

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Speaker 1: Hmm, okay, she didn't know him. But and then CNN

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Speaker 1: reported this a little bit later.

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Speaker 5: Hearings now one source familiar says President Trump did get

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Speaker 5: a heads up this was coming, but certainly adding momentum

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Speaker 5: to an issue that they have sought to tamp down.

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Speaker 1: Casey hmm, so is, see, Dad, does he have something

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Speaker 1: up her sleeve here? Like, look, Steve, this is this

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Speaker 1: is Let me just put it in technical terms for you.

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Speaker 1: This is some weird shit, man.

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Speaker 2: I think she feels that Sarah ferguson juju right. I

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Speaker 2: think that she feels the stink wafting off of her,

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Speaker 2: and I think she feels trapped by all of it.

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Speaker 2: And she's got a story to tell. She's been convinced

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Speaker 2: by someone that she has to say something about Epstein

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Speaker 2: that it makes her look bad, not just Donald. And

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Speaker 2: so here's the performance. And she's gone out there and

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Speaker 2: said something that can be refuted with this photo. These

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Speaker 2: people hung out with one another. This is the Epstein class,

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Speaker 2: and Donald Trump is king of the Epstein class. Mulania

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Speaker 2: is queen of the Epstein class. She is Donald Trump's

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Speaker 2: third wife. A lot of people say that she was

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Speaker 2: introduced to Donald by Jeffrey Epstein. But what's the point

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Speaker 2: that they're trying to argue here today that I didn't

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Speaker 2: know the people that she has all of these text

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Speaker 2: messages with and photographs with. Of course they know one another.

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Speaker 1: She's saying she only had one text message, but there

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Speaker 1: are plenty of photographs. And you saw the video of

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Speaker 1: them at a fashion show. They were at the wedding

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Speaker 1: that Epstein or Glenn Maxwell.

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Speaker 2: And by the way, this it's unrelated, but it's not.

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Speaker 2: You have the entire story of an ICE shooting in

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Speaker 2: Minnesota and the representation that an ICE agent was attacked

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Speaker 2: by somebody with a shovel. All of it completely fell

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Speaker 2: apart today didn't happen. Fantasy, completely completely made up, just

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Speaker 2: like Mulania's news conference here and so again, these people

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Speaker 2: all knew one another. The birthday cards are real, the

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Speaker 2: messages are real, the girls are real, the victims are real.

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Speaker 2: It's all real.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, she's saying that she did not know him. There's

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Speaker 1: there are two clips here, let's just put him both together.

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Speaker 1: The longer clip about her relationship she says with him,

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Speaker 1: or one she says she'd never had, and then how

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Speaker 1: she met her husband.

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Speaker 6: The lies linking me with the disgraceful Jeffrey Epstein need

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Speaker 6: to end today. The individuals lying about me are devoid

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Speaker 6: of ethical standards, humility and respect.

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Speaker 2: I mean I do not object to the ethical ethical

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Speaker 2: The people who are lying about this are devoid of

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Speaker 2: ethical standards, humility and respect. Yeah, this is the wife

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Speaker 2: of Donald Trump. This is this is the great, this

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Speaker 2: is the great victim. The lies have to the lies

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Speaker 2: have to stop. What's let me a'll buy what's the lie?

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Speaker 2: What's the lie? She denounces the lie and the liars,

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Speaker 2: without being able to name the lie and the liars.

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Speaker 2: What's the defamation?

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Speaker 1: Well, one of them is she said that she didn't

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Speaker 1: meet Donald Trump through Epstein. She met him at a party,

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Speaker 1: just randomly. I'll let her see here she is, she's

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Speaker 1: going to talk about.

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Speaker 6: It, but rather I rejected their means spirited attempts to

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Speaker 6: defame my reputation.

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Speaker 1: Okay, pause, That's what got me. But when you were

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Speaker 1: just said, when you said about morals or whatever, their

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Speaker 1: means spirited attempts to defeime my reputation. That's something that

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Speaker 1: Donald Trump does every single day to someone he is

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Speaker 1: suing and trying to jail people he deems his political rivals.

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Speaker 1: And she has a nerve to talk about defaming people.

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Speaker 1: Donald Trump does it all the time. He calls reporters piggy.

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Speaker 2: It's beyond nerve. It's a it's really an insanity. Think

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Speaker 2: about that. What what what she just said that sentence?

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Speaker 2: This is this is Donald Trump's wife who just did

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Speaker 2: a walk on flanked by the presidential seal on the awning,

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Speaker 2: two American flags, the presidential seal embossed on the podium,

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Speaker 2: and she she's the victim. Are you really? This is

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Speaker 2: this is real? This happened today. It's it's astonishing.

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Speaker 1: Keep going.

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Speaker 6: I never been friends with Epstein. Not true, Ronald and

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Speaker 6: I were invited to the same parties as Epstein from

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Speaker 6: time to time.

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Speaker 2: Not true parties. Parties were hosted in mar Lago, they

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Speaker 2: invited Epstein. Epstein was a frequent guest there. I mean, obviously,

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Speaker 2: everybody around Donald Trump, from his cabinet members to his

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Speaker 2: wife to his children, has taken away from the experience

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Speaker 2: that when they're cornered they should just lie like he does.

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Speaker 2: But it just doesn't have the same magic as when

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Speaker 2: he does. It doesn't have the same hypnotic qualities. But

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Speaker 2: everything she's saying, right, if we had a light on

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Speaker 2: it would be red, because red stands for lie in

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Speaker 2: this analogy is lying. All of it is not true.

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Speaker 2: And again we know it's not true because of her emails,

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Speaker 2: because of the photographs with her in it. It's madness.

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Speaker 2: I didn't know them.

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Speaker 6: Planning in social circles is common in New York City

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Speaker 6: and Palm Beach. To be clear, I never had a

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Speaker 6: relationship with Epstein or his accomplice Maxwell. My email reply

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Speaker 6: to Maxwell cannot be categorized as anything more than casual correspondence.

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Speaker 6: My polite reply to her email doesn't amount to anything

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Speaker 6: more than a tribal note.

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Speaker 1: I am not absolutely, she said.

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Speaker 6: Epstein did not introduce me to Donald Trump. I met

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Speaker 6: my husband by chance at the New York City party

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Speaker 6: in nineteen ninety eight. This initial accounter with my husband

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Speaker 6: is documented in a detail in my book Millennia.

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Speaker 1: That was was this whole thing for a book plug?

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Speaker 1: I don't know? Or does this have anything Someone asked,

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Speaker 1: does this have anything to do Someone asked, let me

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Speaker 1: say that properly, does this have anything to do with

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Speaker 1: Michael Wolfe's book, or like, what is this? I don't

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Speaker 1: I don't understand. I never met how do you? I

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Speaker 1: don't know. I don't know.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, look, I wouldn't trust a word she says, really,

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Speaker 2: not a word, she says, long term relationship. Look at

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Speaker 2: the hair there.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, and this was before Malania. But still, I mean,

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Speaker 1: he can't she can't see my husband didn't know? Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I know. Wow, was that some weird mullet? Like?

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Speaker 2: What is it?

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Speaker 1: But anyways?

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Speaker 5: Uh?

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Speaker 1: Yeah, you know, how like.

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Speaker 2: When you were in the early nineties, When we were

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Speaker 2: living in the early nineties, it wasn't like conscious that

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Speaker 2: we were living in a weird fashion time. Then I

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Speaker 2: thought we were living in like modern fashion times that

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Speaker 2: we looked good in the stuff we were wearing. But

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Speaker 2: you look back right to nineteen ninety two here, it's

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Speaker 2: clear that it was just like a later version of

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Speaker 2: the seventies. Look at that incredible Wait.

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Speaker 1: Is that Glenn Max, that's Glenn right behind? Yeah, that's

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Speaker 1: Glen behind right behind. Yeah. And then that overbite where

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Speaker 1: he's like, I look, that's when. That's when I first

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Speaker 1: became sort of of age in New York and started

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Speaker 1: spending time in New York. In the early nineties. I

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Speaker 1: took a job at the Fox five station on the

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Speaker 1: for you know, w y W Channel five on the uppers.

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Speaker 1: Look at that look at it over or the biting

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Speaker 1: of the lip, and yeah, that was weird. And that's

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Speaker 1: when when honestly, because the station I worked for was

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Speaker 1: a Rupert Murdoch owned station, uh and so very friendly.

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Speaker 1: The folks were very friendly with Rupert Murdoch and the

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Speaker 1: New York Post blah blah blada, and people would talk

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Speaker 1: about Donald Trump, some of the correspondents and reporters who

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Speaker 1: had to work for the Posts as a joke. They

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Speaker 1: would make fun of him about how he lied about

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Speaker 1: every end, about him doing his own press. You know,

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Speaker 1: the whole thing. You know, talk to Cindy Adams or

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Speaker 1: someone like that. They know you know the stories.

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Speaker 2: Yep, there they are there.

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Speaker 1: And there they are so what so you says you

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Speaker 1: wouldn't believe a word? Why not? Why wouldn't you believe

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Speaker 1: a word coming from her? And I'm still perplexed about

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Speaker 1: why she even did this today.

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Speaker 2: I don't, I don't, I don't. I don't think any

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Speaker 2: reasonable person could could look at any Trump and say

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Speaker 2: that's a credible person, that there's a that there's a

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Speaker 2: track record that suggests I can trust you. And what

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Speaker 2: this is, This is a person who's standing up there,

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Speaker 2: who is trying to explicate herself from something I'm not

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Speaker 2: sure exactly what it is. Through you need to know.

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Speaker 2: This is how I met Donald Trump. And I guess

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Speaker 2: my response to that is, okay, Would you care to

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Speaker 2: comment on the allegations surrounding your husband in the FBI

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Speaker 2: three O two s with a thirteen year old? Would

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Speaker 2: you care to comment for the first time about your

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Speaker 2: husband being an adjudicated rapist and an abuser of women?

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Speaker 2: And so in the end, the issue that matters is

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Speaker 2: to cover up of a child sex scandal and trafficking ring.

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Speaker 2: What matters here is that Gislaine Maxwell, as she gave

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Speaker 2: that news conference, is the only Tier one sex defender

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Speaker 2: in federal custody in a minimum security prison. Why is that?

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Speaker 2: And the reason for that is what she knows about

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Speaker 2: Donald Trump, who's the husband of the woman crying crocodile

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Speaker 2: tears there today, who feels violated and abused because she's

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Speaker 2: implicated in the tawdry ness of her own immorality and

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Speaker 2: her own immorality, she lives in mar A Lago and

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Speaker 2: nobody should be surprised about what happens.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, well, let me let me just say this because

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Speaker 1: you know they're very ligigious, and you know what they

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Speaker 1: did with ABC because George Stephanopolas said something very similar

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Speaker 1: to what you said, even though the Washington Post. According

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Speaker 1: to the reporting the Washington Post, a judge who presided

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Speaker 1: over the case said that what Donald Trump did was

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Speaker 1: akin to rape, but he was technically it was in

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Speaker 1: a civil court for I think sexual abuse or whatever.

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Speaker 1: But anyway, that's the distinction. But what I want to

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Speaker 1: ask you, though, is did Milania Trump just hand ammunition

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Speaker 1: to the Democrats for this? Because but let me let

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Speaker 1: me get out. I need to let me get this

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Speaker 1: word in from our sponsors. Give me one minute and

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Speaker 1: we'll be right back. You don't always get the full story.

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Speaker 1: Sometimes systems show you what they want you to see

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Speaker 1: and leave the rest out. That's true in politics, it's

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Speaker 1: true in media, and it's true in medicare. A lot

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Speaker 1: of agents push plans that benefit them, not you. That's

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Speaker 1: No pressure, no games, just clarity. So if you're turning

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Speaker 1: sixty five or already on medicare, it's worth a quick conversation.

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Speaker 1: It's free and it takes about twenty minutes. Call two

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Speaker 1: one two nine three to one zero eight five five

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Speaker 1: or go to ask Chapter dot org slash don. That's

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Speaker 1: ask Chapter dot org slash don. Okay, welcome back. So

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Speaker 1: she is calling now for Congress to continue to investigate

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Speaker 1: and to have pearings. Did she just hand democrats and

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Speaker 1: ammunition because they're out there talking about it.

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Speaker 2: Now, Well, what she did by saying that is refute

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Speaker 2: the White House line that this is all a hoax.

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Speaker 2: It can't be a hoax that the First Lady wants

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Speaker 2: to have hearings about. And so it doesn't make any sense,

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Speaker 2: and that helps the Democrats and hurts Trump. It should

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Speaker 2: be noted that on this first day of the ceasefire,

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Speaker 2: that's not that Milania has reintroduced Epstein into the conversation

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Speaker 2: from the White House. And I think that there's a

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Speaker 2: lot of Americans that believe that we went to war

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Speaker 2: in Iran because the Epstein news was getting very very

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Speaker 2: close to Donald Trump in a singy type of way

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Speaker 2: that he didn't really like, and so we went to

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Speaker 2: war to change the subject. And here we are now

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Speaker 2: with Donald Trump at this meeting talking about the war,

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Speaker 2: when he gets a phone call from the reporter at

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Speaker 2: NBC News asking him about milan is news conference where

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Speaker 2: she's now calling for hearings in the Congress for the

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Speaker 2: Epstein victim. So now Donald would not like that.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, and at least there's someone today calling this a

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Speaker 1: distraction from a distraction here it is.

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Speaker 5: You read the First Lady making a public statement like

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Speaker 5: this at this time.

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Speaker 3: How are things going for the Trump administration right now, Antonia,

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Speaker 3: Things are going so well that a war that has

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Speaker 3: bumped the Epstein investigation to the back page for the

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Speaker 3: last five weeks is going so badly that the First

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Speaker 3: Lady of the United States makes an unscheduled, impromptu statement

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Speaker 3: about the Epstein investigations that the administration was so desperate

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Speaker 3: to get out of the headlines, to get back in

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Speaker 3: the headlines during an international arm conflict where forty eight

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Speaker 3: hours ago the President of the United States her husband

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Speaker 3: was threatening the destruction of a whole civilization. So we

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Speaker 3: are forty eight hours separated between threatening war crimes and

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Speaker 3: distracting from the threatening of war crimes and a colossal

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Speaker 3: disaster of our own creation in the Middle East.

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Speaker 1: So every time he does something, every time he does

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Speaker 1: something to distract, it becomes bigger and worse than the

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Speaker 1: thing he's trying to distract from. And so now the

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Speaker 1: war is going so bad that he's like, oh, maybe

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Speaker 1: this Epsteine thing isn't so bad. I mean, this is

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Speaker 1: a distraction from a distraction. What's next after war? I mean,

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Speaker 1: what is it like total annihilation? To distract from this?

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Speaker 1: I don't know.

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Speaker 2: Well, the war's not over. And if there's one thing

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Speaker 2: that everybody should appreciate in our country, it's that it's

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Speaker 2: a lot easier to start a war than it is

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Speaker 2: to end one. And this is not over by a stretch.

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00:28:57,160 --> 00:28:59,160
Speaker 2: In fact, it's just beginning.

435
00:29:01,120 --> 00:29:04,840
Speaker 1: Wow, it is. Why do you say that?

436
00:29:07,240 --> 00:29:12,120
Speaker 2: Because we have we have lost the first battle in

437
00:29:12,240 --> 00:29:16,280
Speaker 2: a war of choice with Iran, and none of the

438
00:29:16,320 --> 00:29:21,280
Speaker 2: things that Trump set out to do have happened. The

439
00:29:21,360 --> 00:29:25,400
Speaker 2: regime has not been changed, It's been made more radical

440
00:29:25,960 --> 00:29:33,000
Speaker 2: with a younger, meaner Ayatola Kamane. The uranium, the four

441
00:29:33,080 --> 00:29:40,280
Speaker 2: hundred and sixty kilograms, has not been secured. And most importantly,

442
00:29:41,800 --> 00:29:46,320
Speaker 2: a month ago, the Strait of Hormuz was an international

443
00:29:46,520 --> 00:29:53,360
Speaker 2: waterway and uncontested as such. Today it is an Iranian waterway,

444
00:29:54,320 --> 00:30:00,000
Speaker 2: a Iranian toll way. And that is what's been achieved.

445
00:30:00,720 --> 00:30:05,760
Speaker 2: The world oil market, the economic shocks, all of that

446
00:30:05,760 --> 00:30:10,360
Speaker 2: that's coming have not hit yet. But more than anything,

447
00:30:11,800 --> 00:30:15,560
Speaker 2: what the Iranian regime will absorb from this experience is

448
00:30:15,640 --> 00:30:19,480
Speaker 2: the Kim Jong Un lesson. They're going to race to

449
00:30:19,560 --> 00:30:23,960
Speaker 2: get a nuclear weapon, and so Donald Trump has opened

450
00:30:24,040 --> 00:30:30,240
Speaker 2: up a Pandora's box. He has lost, He has undermined

451
00:30:30,280 --> 00:30:37,320
Speaker 2: American credibility in a hundred different ways, really functionally destroyed

452
00:30:37,440 --> 00:30:49,480
Speaker 2: NATO in this last episode. And the idea that this

453
00:30:49,680 --> 00:30:55,320
Speaker 2: is a reality show and Trump drives the script and

454
00:30:55,400 --> 00:31:00,520
Speaker 2: decides when things begin and when they end is the illusional.

455
00:31:00,640 --> 00:31:03,600
Speaker 2: Is what came out of Milania Trump's my mouth today.

456
00:31:04,640 --> 00:31:07,760
Speaker 2: And so so we we we have a very very

457
00:31:08,080 --> 00:31:13,280
Speaker 2: very dangerous situation in the Middle East. That is that

458
00:31:13,440 --> 00:31:22,680
Speaker 2: has left a month after this began, the world's America's adversaries, Russia, China,

459
00:31:23,400 --> 00:31:28,719
Speaker 2: it strengthened and enhanced positions, and and and this is

460
00:31:28,800 --> 00:31:32,320
Speaker 2: far from over. We'll be dealing with the consequences for

461
00:31:32,360 --> 00:31:35,560
Speaker 2: a very long time. And and and of course the

462
00:31:35,600 --> 00:31:39,040
Speaker 2: military side of this isn't done yet. This cease fire,

463
00:31:39,640 --> 00:31:41,840
Speaker 2: to to look at it in the most generous way

464
00:31:42,000 --> 00:31:44,160
Speaker 2: possible is tenuous, to say.

465
00:31:44,080 --> 00:31:49,040
Speaker 1: The least, Steve, I was gonna let you go, but

466
00:31:49,120 --> 00:31:51,000
Speaker 1: we have some breaking news that I want to bring

467
00:31:51,040 --> 00:31:53,000
Speaker 1: in and and and I'll bring the legends in. But

468
00:31:53,040 --> 00:31:56,000
Speaker 1: this is Donald Trump just put this out moments ago.

469
00:31:56,080 --> 00:31:59,080
Speaker 1: This is from Truth Social And I know it's crazy

470
00:31:59,360 --> 00:32:01,240
Speaker 1: he's saying, and he's responding to you and I talked

471
00:32:01,240 --> 00:32:04,560
Speaker 1: about this before the show. His critics right the Tucker Carlson's,

472
00:32:04,600 --> 00:32:07,080
Speaker 1: Candas Owens, Magan Kelly's of the world. He said, I

473
00:32:07,080 --> 00:32:09,480
Speaker 1: know when Tucker Carlson, Making Kelly, Candace Owens, and Alex

474
00:32:09,600 --> 00:32:11,840
Speaker 1: Jones have all been fighting me for years, especially by

475
00:32:11,840 --> 00:32:14,600
Speaker 1: the fact that they think it is wonderful for Iran,

476
00:32:14,680 --> 00:32:17,120
Speaker 1: the number one state sponsor of terror, to have a

477
00:32:17,200 --> 00:32:20,360
Speaker 1: nuclear weapon, because they have one thing in common low

478
00:32:20,400 --> 00:32:24,240
Speaker 1: IQ's they're stupid people. They know it, their families know it,

479
00:32:24,280 --> 00:32:27,520
Speaker 1: and everyone else knows it too. Every acquisition is a confession.

480
00:32:27,560 --> 00:32:30,560
Speaker 1: Remember that. Look at their past, look at their record.

481
00:32:30,640 --> 00:32:33,360
Speaker 1: They don't have what it takes, and they never did.

482
00:32:33,760 --> 00:32:37,160
Speaker 1: They've all been thrown off television, lost their shows, and

483
00:32:37,240 --> 00:32:40,880
Speaker 1: aren't even invited on TV because nobody cares about them.

484
00:32:41,200 --> 00:32:45,560
Speaker 1: They're nut jobs, troublemakers in all caps and will say

485
00:32:45,600 --> 00:32:49,920
Speaker 1: anything necessary for some free and cheap publicity. Now they

486
00:32:49,920 --> 00:32:53,560
Speaker 1: think they got some clicks because they have third rate podcasts,

487
00:32:53,560 --> 00:32:57,200
Speaker 1: but nobody's talking about them, and their views are opposite,

488
00:32:57,200 --> 00:33:00,880
Speaker 1: the opposite of MAGA or I wouldn't have the presidential

489
00:33:00,920 --> 00:33:06,080
Speaker 1: election in a landslide, which is all caps Maga agrees

490
00:33:06,120 --> 00:33:09,280
Speaker 1: with me and just gave CNN a one hundred percent

491
00:33:09,280 --> 00:33:13,920
Speaker 1: approval rating of Trump not hand flailing fools like Tuck Across,

492
00:33:13,960 --> 00:33:17,160
Speaker 1: and then he just it just goes on and on. Look,

493
00:33:17,520 --> 00:33:19,479
Speaker 1: I have a lot to say about those people who

494
00:33:19,560 --> 00:33:23,520
Speaker 1: he's talking about, not you know, all on the up

495
00:33:23,600 --> 00:33:28,080
Speaker 1: and up grifting. Megan Kelly is probably the griftiest and

496
00:33:28,200 --> 00:33:31,960
Speaker 1: the most vile of them all. But this is really

497
00:33:31,960 --> 00:33:33,800
Speaker 1: how the President of the United States is spending his

498
00:33:33,880 --> 00:33:36,040
Speaker 1: time as we are in the middle of a war

499
00:33:36,160 --> 00:33:38,640
Speaker 1: with a as they call it, a very tenuous ceasefire,

500
00:33:38,880 --> 00:33:42,560
Speaker 1: and his wife has just given the Democrats some ammunition

501
00:33:43,000 --> 00:33:45,840
Speaker 1: about Epstein because people are gonna wonder why isn't he testifying,

502
00:33:45,840 --> 00:33:49,080
Speaker 1: and why isn't she if Hillary Clinton, look, is this

503
00:33:49,160 --> 00:33:53,840
Speaker 1: a distraction? And also why is this even important today?

504
00:33:55,760 --> 00:33:58,720
Speaker 2: Well, I mean what this should go in the time

505
00:33:58,880 --> 00:34:06,040
Speaker 2: capsule because it's such a perfect distillation of the madness

506
00:34:06,160 --> 00:34:09,080
Speaker 2: of the era, the age of the whack job. This

507
00:34:09,200 --> 00:34:12,839
Speaker 2: is this is the President of the United States, and

508
00:34:13,440 --> 00:34:16,920
Speaker 2: really what you're seeing is a is a version of

509
00:34:16,960 --> 00:34:20,319
Speaker 2: the fight that played out on The Apprentice between meat

510
00:34:20,360 --> 00:34:26,839
Speaker 2: Loaf and Gary Busey and Trump and Little John. If

511
00:34:26,880 --> 00:34:33,680
Speaker 2: I remember correctly, you know these people, all of them

512
00:34:35,000 --> 00:34:43,920
Speaker 2: are the break that's going to split MAGA inside the

513
00:34:44,160 --> 00:34:51,080
Speaker 2: America First movement. Let me Tucker Carlson is a serious,

514
00:34:51,200 --> 00:34:55,640
Speaker 2: as a heart attack candidate for president in twenty twenty

515
00:34:55,680 --> 00:34:59,760
Speaker 2: eight for the Republican nomination, which which I think would

516
00:34:59,760 --> 00:35:04,320
Speaker 2: be obviously a detestable candidacy in a in a profound

517
00:35:04,400 --> 00:35:07,200
Speaker 2: moral danger to the world. But if you if you

518
00:35:07,320 --> 00:35:12,160
Speaker 2: watch Tucker Carlson with Mike Huckabee in that interview, a

519
00:35:12,200 --> 00:35:16,200
Speaker 2: couple things jump out. First. One is the fact that

520
00:35:16,239 --> 00:35:19,319
Speaker 2: Mike Cuckaby is not a bright guy, and how and

521
00:35:19,400 --> 00:35:24,720
Speaker 2: how nutty all of this Christian Zionism is. But you

522
00:35:24,760 --> 00:35:28,120
Speaker 2: but you can see the lane that Tucker Carlson would

523
00:35:28,200 --> 00:35:32,239
Speaker 2: run for president in. It will run as an isolationist,

524
00:35:32,320 --> 00:35:38,160
Speaker 2: as an America First UH, an enthusiastic anti Semite. And

525
00:35:38,239 --> 00:35:43,400
Speaker 2: you're beginning to see the contours of the candidacy that

526
00:35:43,520 --> 00:35:50,080
Speaker 2: will challenge as a insurgency the MAGA orthodoxy. You're you're

527
00:35:50,120 --> 00:35:54,360
Speaker 2: gonna have a primary that consists of JD. Vance and

528
00:35:54,360 --> 00:35:58,960
Speaker 2: and Marco Rubio, and there'll be some drama in psychodrama

529
00:35:59,120 --> 00:36:02,759
Speaker 2: in that. But you're also going to have the outsider

530
00:36:03,360 --> 00:36:08,719
Speaker 2: MAGA apostate lane, and that is where Tucker Carlson and

531
00:36:08,760 --> 00:36:12,520
Speaker 2: Megan Kelly and Candas Owens and Alex Jones are. Megan

532
00:36:12,600 --> 00:36:17,640
Speaker 2: Kelly is not someone who's satisfied with where she sits now.

533
00:36:18,520 --> 00:36:22,560
Speaker 2: Megan Kelly has picked aside. She's picked aside because it's

534
00:36:22,560 --> 00:36:26,760
Speaker 2: good for her business. And from that business, Megan Kelly

535
00:36:26,840 --> 00:36:30,520
Speaker 2: sees a root with Tucker Curlson and these other people

536
00:36:30,600 --> 00:36:37,120
Speaker 2: to gain political power. As MAGA fails from their perspective,

537
00:36:37,840 --> 00:36:43,400
Speaker 2: their credibility goes up, and Tucker Carlson becomes the answer

538
00:36:43,480 --> 00:36:49,080
Speaker 2: to the question of what next after MAGA. And that's

539
00:36:49,080 --> 00:36:53,360
Speaker 2: what you're seeing here. You're seeing the first ruptures that

540
00:36:53,560 --> 00:36:57,040
Speaker 2: set the different staging and lanes for the twenty twenty

541
00:36:57,080 --> 00:36:58,600
Speaker 2: eight presidential primary.

542
00:37:00,120 --> 00:37:02,160
Speaker 1: And the thing is too it's Donald Trump has a

543
00:37:02,280 --> 00:37:06,120
Speaker 1: nineteen nineties mentality about television, and I guess it's why

544
00:37:06,160 --> 00:37:09,000
Speaker 1: maybe his friend is buying the you know, dying linear

545
00:37:09,040 --> 00:37:12,680
Speaker 1: assets is about television that people aren't legitimate. I'm not

546
00:37:12,719 --> 00:37:14,640
Speaker 1: saying this is because of me. They are unless you're

547
00:37:14,640 --> 00:37:18,840
Speaker 1: on television. Tucker Carlson has huge influence in the culture

548
00:37:18,960 --> 00:37:22,040
Speaker 1: as a as a streamer. Megan Kelly does as well,

549
00:37:22,040 --> 00:37:24,680
Speaker 1: and Candice Owens as well, and I think more people

550
00:37:24,719 --> 00:37:28,600
Speaker 1: probably watch them than some of the news broadcasts and

551
00:37:28,680 --> 00:37:31,640
Speaker 1: cable TV news broadcast that he watches.

552
00:37:33,680 --> 00:37:42,319
Speaker 2: The newscasts that he's watching have very very small audiences.

553
00:37:43,080 --> 00:37:47,360
Speaker 2: And again, this is this is very important I think

554
00:37:46,760 --> 00:37:52,040
Speaker 2: to understand about Trump. He's like a hermit crab who

555
00:37:52,080 --> 00:37:57,120
Speaker 2: lives in a terrarium. He exists in the White House,

556
00:37:58,440 --> 00:38:02,959
Speaker 2: and he goes to the Badman Golf Club and sometimes

557
00:38:03,000 --> 00:38:07,080
Speaker 2: to the Virginia Golf Club, and he goes Tomorrow Alago.

558
00:38:08,160 --> 00:38:11,680
Speaker 2: And that's where Trump lives. That's his terrarium, that's his

559
00:38:12,480 --> 00:38:18,359
Speaker 2: that's his bubble. And inside that bubble there's the television.

560
00:38:19,160 --> 00:38:22,800
Speaker 2: And this is John Baron. This is the guy who's

561
00:38:22,840 --> 00:38:27,080
Speaker 2: been feuding with the New York tabloids. This is the

562
00:38:27,160 --> 00:38:30,560
Speaker 2: guy who's been reading the New York Post like it's

563
00:38:30,640 --> 00:38:34,280
Speaker 2: the Bible first thing in the morning for his entire

564
00:38:34,920 --> 00:38:41,640
Speaker 2: adult life. And so his entire view of the universe

565
00:38:41,920 --> 00:38:48,840
Speaker 2: is ordered through what he sees on cable news. And

566
00:38:49,360 --> 00:38:52,560
Speaker 2: one of the great insanities of the era is the

567
00:38:52,680 --> 00:38:55,920
Speaker 2: degree to which if we if we went back and

568
00:38:56,440 --> 00:38:58,799
Speaker 2: we were to kind of look at the history of

569
00:38:58,840 --> 00:39:02,680
Speaker 2: the Spanish America War, it would have been said that

570
00:39:02,760 --> 00:39:05,600
Speaker 2: the yellow journalism of the era, it was called the

571
00:39:05,719 --> 00:39:10,160
Speaker 2: Hurst War, that the Hearst newspapers really pushed the country

572
00:39:10,800 --> 00:39:16,640
Speaker 2: into this war of imperial adventure in Cuba. Remember the

573
00:39:16,760 --> 00:39:21,560
Speaker 2: main it was all concocted, it was all pushed. The

574
00:39:21,760 --> 00:39:28,799
Speaker 2: entire Maga presidency is a function of some level of

575
00:39:28,840 --> 00:39:35,600
Speaker 2: the manipulations that begin on television by a host on

576
00:39:35,760 --> 00:39:41,759
Speaker 2: Fox and Friends or Hannity who put into motion the

577
00:39:41,800 --> 00:39:48,080
Speaker 2: seed of an idea that Trump reacts to actualizes may happen.

578
00:39:48,640 --> 00:39:53,720
Speaker 2: And inside the terrarium Fox News, the Megan Kelly Show,

579
00:39:54,080 --> 00:39:59,320
Speaker 2: all of it a world apart, a drama plays out

580
00:40:00,080 --> 00:40:04,000
Speaker 2: that's further and further and further on a daily basis,

581
00:40:04,120 --> 00:40:09,640
Speaker 2: removed from the lives of anybody, whether a Republican or

582
00:40:09,680 --> 00:40:14,480
Speaker 2: a Democrat, anybody in the country. And so what you're

583
00:40:14,520 --> 00:40:20,600
Speaker 2: seeing is this terrarium politics, bubble politics. This is the

584
00:40:20,680 --> 00:40:24,240
Speaker 2: politics of the Trump Show of life on the set.

585
00:40:24,680 --> 00:40:29,160
Speaker 2: These are all characters from that show that we've endured

586
00:40:29,239 --> 00:40:33,080
Speaker 2: as a people and American people for twelve years, and

587
00:40:33,120 --> 00:40:36,480
Speaker 2: they're feuding. One of the smartest things that anyone has

588
00:40:36,520 --> 00:40:42,000
Speaker 2: ever said to me in politics is nothing breeds contempt

589
00:40:42,680 --> 00:40:47,040
Speaker 2: like proximity. And that is why these people all hate

590
00:40:47,080 --> 00:40:50,680
Speaker 2: each other so much, because they spend so much time

591
00:40:50,719 --> 00:40:54,920
Speaker 2: with each other, and there's only so much space in

592
00:40:55,040 --> 00:41:01,160
Speaker 2: that terrarium for so many creatures. They appreciate that.

593
00:41:02,560 --> 00:41:04,680
Speaker 1: And only so much space inside the shell of a

594
00:41:04,680 --> 00:41:08,360
Speaker 1: hermit crab. Thank you, Steve. That was I love it

595
00:41:08,400 --> 00:41:10,680
Speaker 1: when someone says, Steve be knowing. We have this saying

596
00:41:10,719 --> 00:41:12,680
Speaker 1: over here on this on the channel of the Lemonheads,

597
00:41:12,719 --> 00:41:16,840
Speaker 1: who other people be knowing, Steve be knowing, So you

598
00:41:16,920 --> 00:41:18,120
Speaker 1: better coin that, my friend.

599
00:41:18,880 --> 00:41:20,920
Speaker 2: Thank you. I may drop that. I may drop that

600
00:41:21,040 --> 00:41:22,120
Speaker 2: on one of the kids later.

601
00:41:22,880 --> 00:41:28,120
Speaker 1: You should look, Steve be knowing, Steve. Check out the warning, Steve.

602
00:41:28,280 --> 00:41:30,400
Speaker 1: The warning is great. You love your substack the warning,

603
00:41:30,520 --> 00:41:32,560
Speaker 1: and of course you know we love that. You're one

604
00:41:32,560 --> 00:41:34,440
Speaker 1: of the co founders of the Lincoln Project and we

605
00:41:34,560 --> 00:41:36,600
Speaker 1: just love having you on. Thank you for your candor

606
00:41:36,640 --> 00:41:39,080
Speaker 1: and thank you for your support. And we'll see you soon.

607
00:41:39,120 --> 00:41:41,440
Speaker 2: Okay, thank you, Don And I love that sheep in

608
00:41:41,480 --> 00:41:42,560
Speaker 2: the background and crowd.

609
00:41:42,719 --> 00:41:48,040
Speaker 1: Oh, thank you, Prodible, thank you. I'll talk to you later. Okay,