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Speaker 2: Richard Dolan, and I had heard this story about Christopher Columbus,
Speaker 2: you know, sailing the Ocean Blue in fourteen ninety two
Speaker 2: and having some sort of a UFO experience, and I
Speaker 2: always kind of mentally equated it with something kind of
Speaker 2: mythic or prophetic, like the wise men following a star
Speaker 2: to Bethlehem. So what did Columbus see UFO USO both neither.
Speaker 3: He saw something for sure, and in fact he wrote
Speaker 3: about it in his journal. His son, who was very
Speaker 3: close to him in many ways, also wrote about it.
Speaker 3: He obviously got it directly from his dad. But what
Speaker 3: we know is that was in the night of October eleventh,
Speaker 3: fourteen ninety two. This is right before they made landfall
Speaker 3: at the New World, so they were just right about there.
Speaker 3: They had been sailing for weeks at this point, and
Speaker 3: Columbus and one member of his crew saw this light.
Speaker 3: How he can describe it, He described it as a
Speaker 3: faint light that rose and fell. He said it was
Speaker 3: like a small wax candle, that's what it looked like.
Speaker 3: And it was right before they reached land and his
Speaker 3: son in a later entry just described it as moving
Speaker 3: like a candle being passed between people on shore. That
Speaker 3: is what it looked like it might have been. So
Speaker 3: so what was this thing? You have different speculations, and
Speaker 3: we don't really have an answer to this day. The
Speaker 3: fact that he was fairly close to land makes you
Speaker 3: wonder was it an actual torch that was on land.
Speaker 3: I tried looking into this myself, and my strong impression
Speaker 3: that is that he was too far. The curvature of
Speaker 3: the earth was still enough that it would have been
Speaker 3: very difficult to see something at the shore, excuse me,
Speaker 3: unless it was elevated like a hill. So maybe you
Speaker 3: could have seen that. There's other theories. Some people thought
Speaker 3: of bioluminescence. It doesn't really make much sense to me.
Speaker 3: There was the suggestion that Columbus might not have recognized
Speaker 3: a light from one of the ships that was ahead
Speaker 3: of him. I doubt it. That would be like a
Speaker 3: rookie mistake for someone like Columbus, who was an absolute
Speaker 3: expert sailor and navigator. So we don't really have a
Speaker 3: lot of good answers for this one, and it is
Speaker 3: a genuine mystery. It could be something on land if
Speaker 3: I really were to guess, that would be my guest.
Speaker 3: But we just don't know, and I think we will
Speaker 3: never know.
Speaker 2: You have an earlier another case, not quite that early,
Speaker 2: but this is eighteen ninety two hydrographic survey of the
Speaker 2: West Coast and haha, a young man named George Crossell.
Speaker 3: Yep, we're talking. So now we're getting into some like
Speaker 3: this is a fascinating case. So George Crossell in eighteen
Speaker 3: ninety two, he was a twenty six year old young man,
Speaker 3: very smart guy, and he was part of a hydrographic
Speaker 3: survey team. So you know, basically they were there to
Speaker 3: check the de of the ocean and various areas and
Speaker 3: everything having to do with mapping a certain part of
Speaker 3: the water. And they were doing this right off of
Speaker 3: Baja California. So he was out there with a bunch
Speaker 3: of other people and he wrote about one he wrote
Speaker 3: about his whole experience. He went back he lived in Atlanta,
Speaker 3: and he wrote a long letter describing his awesome, really
Speaker 3: cool experience doing all this hydrographic survey work on the
Speaker 3: other side of the country. It was all very like
Speaker 3: matter of fact. You get a lot of these types
Speaker 3: of accounts in newspapers back in those days. And in
Speaker 3: the middle of it, he says, and this one weird
Speaker 3: thing happened, and it's crazy. So the weird thing is
Speaker 3: he's with another colleague of his whose name he mentions,
Speaker 3: I can't remember off the top of my head, and
Speaker 3: they're on land and they see this bright object coming
Speaker 3: in from the ocean. They're at, you know, they're facing
Speaker 3: the Pacific Ocean. They see this white globular. He said,
Speaker 3: it was almost like like a sack filled with gas,
Speaker 3: and it was taking all of these different shapes. It
Speaker 3: was roughly spherical, though so, and it was moving in.
Speaker 3: It was very large, maybe forty fifty feet in diameter
Speaker 3: is fairly substantial. You don't miss something like that. And
Speaker 3: he said it was so bright that they could hardly
Speaker 3: look at it at times. So it just came in
Speaker 3: from the ocean and it's hanging around, darting around them
Speaker 3: for like something like fifteen minutes, and then it just
Speaker 3: moved off inland. And he had no explanation for this.
Speaker 3: You can read his account, which I've read, I've read
Speaker 3: it several times, and you can tell like this guy
Speaker 3: was utterly mystified. He wasn't trying to explain it in
Speaker 3: any way or another. He was clearly a highly educated,
Speaker 3: intelligent young man who just did not know what thatck
Speaker 3: he had encountered. And you know, if you look out
Speaker 3: from where he was, I mean, it's only ocean. There's
Speaker 3: nothing there for hundreds, really thousands of miles, It's just water.
Speaker 3: So where did the thing come from? What was it?
Speaker 3: Totally bizarre? And am I right in thinking, I know
Speaker 3: why you asked me that question, George, Well.
Speaker 2: Let me ask you this is it daylight? When this
Speaker 2: is it daylight? Yeah?
Speaker 3: It was daylight. It was the middle of the day,
Speaker 3: sometime in the afternoon.
Speaker 2: Yes, and it changed shapes, So it changed shapes it.
Speaker 3: Yeah, it was roughly spherical, but he said it it
Speaker 3: was almost as if there was something inside it moving
Speaker 3: in different directions or whatever. But it was roughly spherical,
Speaker 3: but it bulged here and there and so forth. Yeah.
Speaker 2: So yeah, you are right in guessing where I was
Speaker 2: headed this. But you know, I did this project with
Speaker 2: Netflix called Investigation Alien. We had a crew Rory Kremer,
Speaker 2: who was my guest on this show and talk to
Speaker 2: me and Jeremy and our podcast. We had him talk
Speaker 2: about it. His crew goes out into the channel towards
Speaker 2: the Channel islands. They drop anchor somewhere in the in
Speaker 2: the middle of the ocean, they see this thing. While
Speaker 2: the crew are all awake, they see this object that
Speaker 2: comes pretty close to the ship and then zooms away.
Speaker 2: It's miles away suddenly in an instant. And then later
Speaker 2: when the whole crew goes to sleep, the cameras are
Speaker 2: still rolling, this thing comes back and it's a UFO.
Speaker 2: It's a big round orb glowing, comes down really slowly right,
Speaker 2: gets right to the just a really close to the
Speaker 2: ocean itself, and then descends almost teasingly into the water.
Speaker 2: I mean it's a UFO that becomes a USO and
Speaker 2: sounds a heck of a lot like some of the
Speaker 2: cases that you're describing in this book.
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, oh yeah, for sure. And the reason that
Speaker 3: I'm glad you mentioned this very much because you graciously
Speaker 3: showed me the video enhancement of that particular object, and
Speaker 3: when I looked at it, I thought, oh, I know
Speaker 3: exactly what case that sounds like. And it's the one
Speaker 3: that I just described. Because that object, that spherical let's
Speaker 3: call it a USO that you that was on your program.
Speaker 3: It reminded me very much of what George Crossell saw,
Speaker 3: you know, more than a century ago.
Speaker 2: Yeah, we've heard about these things, just otherwise it's never
Speaker 2: seen video of it happening before. And this was real stuff,
Speaker 2: It really happened. But you got another case April eighth,
Speaker 2: eighteen thirteen. The crew of the Niagara see a large hump.
Speaker 2: How does that fit into this?
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's that's an interesting one. It's not my favorite
Speaker 3: from that century, but it's a pretty interesting one. So
Speaker 3: in eighteen thirteen, the US was adding a war. You know,
Speaker 3: we had the War of eighteen twelve, which was still
Speaker 3: going in eighteen thirteen. So yet all of that activity happening,
Speaker 3: but there were also these merchant ships that were in
Speaker 3: the waters, American merchant ships that were out there and
Speaker 3: so off the coast of Nova Scotia in the eighteen
Speaker 3: thirteen the crew saw this mass in the ocean. This
Speaker 3: is interesting because we have pretty decent coordinates as to
Speaker 3: where this thing took place. I mean, not exact, but
Speaker 3: they were good enough to map the latitude and longitude,
Speaker 3: so nowhere it took place. So what you have, though,
Speaker 3: is the crew of a ship was called the Niagara.
Speaker 3: They saw this large hump in the water a few
Speaker 3: miles from where they were, and they thought it was
Speaker 3: like the hull of a ship that was bottomed up,
Speaker 3: like it turned upside down. But when they got close
Speaker 3: enough they realized this was not the case at all.
Speaker 3: So as they get to it, they thought, is this
Speaker 3: some giant fish, but this is way larger. It was
Speaker 3: about two hundred feet long, which is just too too
Speaker 3: large be any kind of marine creature. That's twice the
Speaker 3: length of a blue whale, so not a marine creature.
Speaker 3: It actually was the size of some of the largest
Speaker 3: seafaring vessels of the period. But the problem with that
Speaker 3: is that it wasn't They said the object was covered
Speaker 3: with some kind of strange shell, and there was like
Speaker 3: something that was sticking out of the water. It wasn't.
Speaker 3: It wasn't. It wasn't a boat. I guess you know.
Speaker 3: The crew was like, this is not a boat, and
Speaker 3: we do not want to get any closer to it.
Speaker 3: So it is strange. We don't have a whole lot
Speaker 3: about it. They actually described it as like a monster,
Speaker 3: which you get a lot of that in that period
Speaker 3: of time. But it's a weird weird unknown whatever it was.
Speaker 3: If I may, I would love to discuss a case
Speaker 3: that is from less than ten years away from that
Speaker 3: which has blown my mind. It was one of the
Speaker 3: first mind blowing ones of the nineteenth century. Mind. Yeah,
Speaker 3: And this one was in eighteen twenty five, so similar
Speaker 3: period of time. This is from a British vessel off
Speaker 3: the coast of Hawaii. And in this one we have
Speaker 3: the ship's doctor who wrote in his log this always
Speaker 3: reminds me of Master and Commander because it's a similar
Speaker 3: period of time. And I remember in that movie that
Speaker 3: had a great ship's doctor. Really cool. I think of
Speaker 3: this type of a guy. We have the name of
Speaker 3: this doctor in this case. His name was Andrew Bloxam,
Speaker 3: and he was a member of the crew of this
Speaker 3: particular British ship and they are a few about one
Speaker 3: hundred miles off the coast of Hawaii, and it's three
Speaker 3: point thirty in the morning, and an orange sphere rose
Speaker 3: out of the water, A very very intensely bright orange
Speaker 3: sphere comes out of the water so bright into the
Speaker 3: deckhands that you could pick a pin off the deck,
Speaker 3: and then it lowered itself back into the water, and
Speaker 3: then did it a second time, so it rose out
Speaker 3: of the water second time and went back into the water.
Speaker 3: And you know, you read Andrew Bloxham's diary entry for this,
Speaker 3: and you just run out of conventional ideas of like
Speaker 3: what this thing could be like. Is this some kind
Speaker 3: of bio illuminescent phenomenon? No, is this some kind of
Speaker 3: ball lightning? How could this possibly be ball lightning? Doesn't
Speaker 3: emerge from the ocean and go back into the ocean
Speaker 3: twice for that matter. They're just I'm not aware of
Speaker 3: any remotely conventional scientific explanation for this kind of thing.
Speaker 3: And when you read this man he's he was the
Speaker 3: ship's doctor of the Royal Navy at the height of
Speaker 3: its power and influence, And I just had no other
Speaker 3: explanation for it. So and he wrote it down like
Speaker 3: as it happened. And again he was another of these people,
Speaker 3: like he had no he wasn't even trying to explain it.
Speaker 3: He just said, this is really strange.
Speaker 2: Here's part of what you wrote. It was the color
Speaker 2: of a red hot cannon shot appeared about the size
Speaker 2: of the sun. It gave so great a light that
Speaker 2: a pin could be picked up on the deck.
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's right. Yeah, I just love that case,
Speaker 3: and I mean I think visually it's very arresting, and
Speaker 3: it's one of those cases where, like some of the
Speaker 3: other early cases, you can interpret one way or another
Speaker 3: and you can think, well, maybe they didn't see this
Speaker 3: very clearly, or they didn't get close enough to get
Speaker 3: a good view. But in this one, I don't really
Speaker 3: know how else I could try to explain it. And
Speaker 3: it's a very well attested case. I mean, I'll take
Speaker 3: the documentation of a ship's doctor off of a British
Speaker 3: Royal Navy vessel any day. I think I'm not going
Speaker 3: to doubt that. And yet there's just nothing that I
Speaker 3: can think of. And what I'll say also is that
Speaker 3: this phenomenon of these orange, these red orange spherical orbs
Speaker 3: coming out of the water, that is not the last
Speaker 3: time you hear of that. That would be identical to
Speaker 3: many cases that would be from one hundred and fifty
Speaker 3: or two centuries later, because there's a bunch of those
Speaker 3: that I have collected as well, very similar, very similar.
Speaker 2: Do you have cases where there's physical interaction, I mean,
Speaker 2: seeing these things in the water coming out of the water,
Speaker 2: that's pretty dramatic. And the school information. But where there's
Speaker 2: physical interaction, some kind of physical trace or effect.
Speaker 3: Yes, absolutely, Sometimes that physical interaction is mental apparent telepathic communication.
Speaker 3: And there have been a few instances where a diver
Speaker 3: like touched one of these objects or interacted with them
Speaker 3: in a very detailed way. There's one that I'm just
Speaker 3: thinking off off the top of my head from the
Speaker 3: late eighties off the coast Puerto Rico, off of Aguadilla.
Speaker 3: As a matter of fact, of course, we know about
Speaker 3: the twenty thirteen Aguadilla video off the northwest coast of
Speaker 3: Puerto Rico there, which is very interesting and that of
Speaker 3: course gets its own treatment. But in nineteen I think
Speaker 3: in nineteen eighty nine, there is a fisherman off the
Speaker 3: coast there, a couple of miles off the coast who
Speaker 3: was also a accomplished diver. So he was near a
Speaker 3: dive and he was a fisherman as well, so he
Speaker 3: has some of his diving equipment in his fishing boat.
Speaker 3: And this matters because he sees at a very short
Speaker 3: distance from his boat a glowing something under the water,
Speaker 3: and he's noticing it and he's like, okay, I'm very curious.
Speaker 3: So he throws his diving equipment on and he goes
Speaker 3: into the water towards this thing, and it's an underwater
Speaker 3: craft that is essentially like applying saucer to USO. He
Speaker 3: actually got close enough to touch it, in fact, in
Speaker 3: two different places. On one side, he's feeling water being sucked
Speaker 3: through a kind of filtration system, is what it struck
Speaker 3: him as. And then on the other side he could
Speaker 3: feel that water coming out, so it seemed like it
Speaker 3: was filtering water or taking water in some way or another.
Speaker 3: So he's hanging around with this thing. He actually touched it,
Speaker 3: and I think at some point he realized, I don't know,
Speaker 3: I think I want to be too close from this object.
Speaker 3: So he went back to his boat and he I
Speaker 3: can't remember exactly what the craft just it went away
Speaker 3: shortly after that. These things are there and then they
Speaker 3: just move off, So he did touch it. There's another
Speaker 3: one I'll just mention real quickly. A woman swimming in
Speaker 3: the Black Sea. So this is off the coast of Crimea.
Speaker 3: She is nineteen ninety. We have her name, I can't
Speaker 3: remember offhand. She's out in the water and she sees
Speaker 3: this still very egg shaped craft. It is directly over
Speaker 3: the water, and she like, it's fascinating, it's beautiful. And
Speaker 3: she told researchers and she got back she said, I'm
Speaker 3: telling you, I heard this message in my mind. It
Speaker 3: came from the thing. The message is basically, it's okay,
Speaker 3: don't be afraid, we're not going to hurt you, something
Speaker 3: to that effect. But she's out there. She was a
Speaker 3: very very good swimmer, and she's just hanging out in
Speaker 3: the water. Her head's above the water. She's looking at
Speaker 3: this thing, having this kind of strange mental interaction with it.
Speaker 2: It's great. Cases we're going to broaden the conversation. We
Speaker 2: come back talk about maybe military encounters a little bit,
Speaker 2: and if there are USOS that are coming in out
Speaker 2: of the water, what are they doing while they're down there?
Speaker 2: Why are they there? Why at the concentration in some
Speaker 2: of these hotspots.
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