1 00:00:07,360 --> 00:00:09,680 Speaker 1: Golf is the thing. Anything in golf that doesn't change, 2 00:00:09,800 --> 00:00:12,200 Speaker 1: anything that changes the best in playing? Does this man 3 00:00:12,280 --> 00:00:14,920 Speaker 1: a one time winner on the PGA Tour? The point 4 00:00:15,000 --> 00:00:20,560 Speaker 1: Alan is he didn't go Hollywood. You need a fourth 5 00:00:21,920 --> 00:00:24,000 Speaker 1: Before we get to the episode, we should tip our 6 00:00:24,040 --> 00:00:28,720 Speaker 1: caps to echo our corporate sponsors here. And of course 7 00:00:28,920 --> 00:00:32,120 Speaker 1: Lydia Co the New World Number one is a long 8 00:00:32,159 --> 00:00:34,199 Speaker 1: time Echo ambassador. Michael, do you do you know my 9 00:00:34,240 --> 00:00:38,199 Speaker 1: affection for Lydia and I share it? Just a charming 10 00:00:38,800 --> 00:00:41,720 Speaker 1: person and an outstanding golfer. You've done her far better 11 00:00:41,760 --> 00:00:43,760 Speaker 1: than I. What can you tell us about her? Well? 12 00:00:43,800 --> 00:00:46,080 Speaker 1: I still have her hat from the Olympics in Rio 13 00:00:46,240 --> 00:00:48,040 Speaker 1: is his gorgeous New Zealand hat, and asked her I 14 00:00:48,040 --> 00:00:51,240 Speaker 1: could keep it. She said yes. But one time I 15 00:00:51,120 --> 00:00:52,720 Speaker 1: was talking to her, I said, where does your power 16 00:00:52,760 --> 00:00:55,120 Speaker 1: come from? She says, it's from the ground. You know, 17 00:00:55,160 --> 00:00:58,440 Speaker 1: It's like a really old school thought. And she has 18 00:00:58,480 --> 00:01:00,880 Speaker 1: beautiful footwork. And I always you're seeing the club and 19 00:01:00,880 --> 00:01:04,160 Speaker 1: she's like she's dancing. And as I'm as I'm observing this, 20 00:01:04,200 --> 00:01:07,520 Speaker 1: I always noticed her her Echo biome shoes like they 21 00:01:07,560 --> 00:01:11,679 Speaker 1: just seem to give her superpowers. Have you observed anything 22 00:01:11,760 --> 00:01:14,960 Speaker 1: along those lines. Well, you know what the great teachers say, 23 00:01:15,000 --> 00:01:17,160 Speaker 1: there's only one thing that connects you to the ground 24 00:01:17,240 --> 00:01:19,240 Speaker 1: in this game, and that's your They don't say your 25 00:01:19,240 --> 00:01:21,959 Speaker 1: echo shoes, but in this case it is her echo shoes. 26 00:01:22,280 --> 00:01:25,360 Speaker 1: So that's pretty cool. The secret to Lydia Ko's success 27 00:01:25,360 --> 00:01:27,360 Speaker 1: along with many other talents. But she's wearing the right 28 00:01:27,360 --> 00:01:31,640 Speaker 1: footwears all right back to need a fourth Okay, so 29 00:01:31,880 --> 00:01:38,880 Speaker 1: fun guests today. He uh, it's a hey, has one 30 00:01:38,920 --> 00:01:41,080 Speaker 1: on the European Tour professional golf, has one on the 31 00:01:41,080 --> 00:01:43,240 Speaker 1: europe and two, has one in Asia, has one professional 32 00:01:43,280 --> 00:01:45,760 Speaker 1: golf tournaments in Australia, and it's currently I think you 33 00:01:45,800 --> 00:01:49,800 Speaker 1: guys know who this is. But Um ranked by Today's 34 00:01:49,800 --> 00:01:53,520 Speaker 1: Golf and Magazine a seventy nine most influential person in golf. 35 00:01:54,560 --> 00:01:58,040 Speaker 1: Um one behind one behind one behind um Alan Actually, 36 00:01:59,720 --> 00:02:02,520 Speaker 1: well is not committed the entire list to memory, you know, 37 00:02:02,560 --> 00:02:05,080 Speaker 1: and had a tattooed on my forearm. That makes it easier. 38 00:02:05,160 --> 00:02:12,400 Speaker 1: But Gulf Coast architect Great Rota, one of the more 39 00:02:12,440 --> 00:02:17,919 Speaker 1: intelligent voices in golf, Well, this gets easier, Jeff, because 40 00:02:17,960 --> 00:02:22,400 Speaker 1: we know about your your design history and your friendships 41 00:02:22,520 --> 00:02:26,720 Speaker 1: and is this person the tournament director of the sand 42 00:02:26,760 --> 00:02:30,760 Speaker 1: Belt Classic, your founder, very very involved in the sand 43 00:02:30,760 --> 00:02:35,920 Speaker 1: Belt invitation. That would be one Mike Clayton. Clayton, welcome, 44 00:02:37,480 --> 00:02:40,720 Speaker 1: thank you. Interesting. What's been going on? What do you uh, 45 00:02:40,919 --> 00:02:45,400 Speaker 1: what have you been doing? Um? Well, it's January and Melbourne, 46 00:02:45,440 --> 00:02:48,560 Speaker 1: so nothing happens, right. So I've been watching a bit 47 00:02:48,600 --> 00:02:52,840 Speaker 1: of tennis. I went to the key On Classic Tennis 48 00:02:52,840 --> 00:02:57,280 Speaker 1: Tolman last week and watched Andy Murray play dam at All. 49 00:02:58,840 --> 00:03:01,840 Speaker 1: And I watched Taylor Fitz, big tall guys. I was 50 00:03:01,840 --> 00:03:04,960 Speaker 1: sitting with someone I knew about tennis. Taylor Fitz, that 51 00:03:05,000 --> 00:03:12,120 Speaker 1: American kid was from California, right was playing Alexei Popper 52 00:03:12,200 --> 00:03:15,880 Speaker 1: in Australian Russian. Australian who was I'm gonna said, this 53 00:03:15,919 --> 00:03:18,360 Speaker 1: is a future of tennis. Six ft five long limbs, 54 00:03:18,440 --> 00:03:24,519 Speaker 1: just smashing it. So, um, it's kind of I always 55 00:03:24,560 --> 00:03:28,520 Speaker 1: liked watching tennis. It's fun. I watched Keon was the 56 00:03:28,560 --> 00:03:30,880 Speaker 1: first place I heard an American accent. And I heard 57 00:03:30,880 --> 00:03:35,680 Speaker 1: Billy jen King say grass when I was like nine sixty. 58 00:03:36,160 --> 00:03:37,760 Speaker 1: I was not knowing sixty four. I've never heard an 59 00:03:37,800 --> 00:03:40,120 Speaker 1: American accent because we we didn't have a TV at home. 60 00:03:41,240 --> 00:03:44,040 Speaker 1: So Billy Jane King was the first American accent I 61 00:03:44,080 --> 00:03:46,120 Speaker 1: ever heard of Kong. My mom took me there and 62 00:03:46,160 --> 00:03:48,920 Speaker 1: like the mid sixties probably, So I went there a 63 00:03:48,920 --> 00:03:50,160 Speaker 1: lot and watched the Strand Open. There are a lot 64 00:03:50,200 --> 00:03:52,920 Speaker 1: of watching You can play corners, and so that's what 65 00:03:52,960 --> 00:03:55,760 Speaker 1: I've been doing, really, and playing golf in s Andrew's Beach, 66 00:03:55,800 --> 00:04:00,920 Speaker 1: which is always fun. Page plays golf every day usually 67 00:04:01,040 --> 00:04:04,600 Speaker 1: still every day. Yeah, most days. I mean even if 68 00:04:04,640 --> 00:04:06,600 Speaker 1: I go and play five or six holes, you know, 69 00:04:07,520 --> 00:04:10,360 Speaker 1: jumped the back fence and Sandraw's Beach and duck out 70 00:04:10,400 --> 00:04:12,600 Speaker 1: in the twelth hold and play five or six holes, yeah, 71 00:04:12,760 --> 00:04:15,640 Speaker 1: because I just I've got an old set of ram 72 00:04:15,680 --> 00:04:18,400 Speaker 1: golden Ram irons stuck in the bag last week, which 73 00:04:18,440 --> 00:04:22,280 Speaker 1: is kind of They're fun Tom Watson style Tom Watson 74 00:04:22,279 --> 00:04:25,120 Speaker 1: grinder with a square toes and high toes. Yeah. So 75 00:04:25,160 --> 00:04:27,920 Speaker 1: I've been playing with them, which has been interesting. Three 76 00:04:27,960 --> 00:04:31,359 Speaker 1: I like crop of three irons. Good. They weren't that 77 00:04:31,400 --> 00:04:33,840 Speaker 1: hard hard to hit that? No they're not. I mean 78 00:04:33,839 --> 00:04:35,400 Speaker 1: you smash it. No, they're not that hard to hit 79 00:04:35,440 --> 00:04:38,320 Speaker 1: it already. And all this modern stuff just dumbs us 80 00:04:38,320 --> 00:04:42,000 Speaker 1: down right and you think in some ways big head 81 00:04:42,000 --> 00:04:43,760 Speaker 1: of drivers that are just like, I mean, you hit 82 00:04:43,800 --> 00:04:46,839 Speaker 1: a good driver to say, yes, so what But someone said, 83 00:04:46,839 --> 00:04:48,159 Speaker 1: what you're driving it? Well, I said if I was, 84 00:04:49,000 --> 00:04:51,120 Speaker 1: if I was seeing these drives with my old Cleveland Classic, 85 00:04:51,160 --> 00:04:53,640 Speaker 1: I would be driving it. Well, this doesn't count. This 86 00:04:53,680 --> 00:04:56,240 Speaker 1: is cheating hitting it with this thing. It's true. But 87 00:04:56,279 --> 00:04:59,040 Speaker 1: if you saw a four handicap or a tin handicap 88 00:04:59,400 --> 00:05:02,840 Speaker 1: hit a modern driver next to Rory mcarrowy hitting the driver, 89 00:05:02,880 --> 00:05:05,040 Speaker 1: you still realize there's a fast skill gap there, like 90 00:05:05,080 --> 00:05:08,359 Speaker 1: it's still quite hard to drive. Oh yeah, that's just 91 00:05:08,640 --> 00:05:10,520 Speaker 1: it's ridiculous. How sure I hit it. I might play 92 00:05:10,600 --> 00:05:12,320 Speaker 1: with these the old guys I play and I think 93 00:05:12,360 --> 00:05:14,200 Speaker 1: I'm kind of a reasonable hitter. And I go and 94 00:05:14,200 --> 00:05:15,720 Speaker 1: played with Lucas or you and they hit at a 95 00:05:15,760 --> 00:05:19,400 Speaker 1: hundred yards past me. It's like, it's ridiculous. Yeah, anyway, 96 00:05:20,000 --> 00:05:23,560 Speaker 1: So that's what I've been doing. Good fun. January is 97 00:05:23,600 --> 00:05:25,600 Speaker 1: always great in Melbourne because it's tennis and the weather 98 00:05:25,680 --> 00:05:27,400 Speaker 1: is nice and it's kind of every one's a holidays 99 00:05:27,400 --> 00:05:29,960 Speaker 1: and the golf courses are great because it's the best 100 00:05:30,000 --> 00:05:31,640 Speaker 1: time of the year for the golf course. So it's 101 00:05:32,279 --> 00:05:35,279 Speaker 1: and people visit the people down. Lawrence Donnegan was down 102 00:05:35,320 --> 00:05:38,240 Speaker 1: with his son playing the Master with the amateurs, so 103 00:05:38,279 --> 00:05:40,600 Speaker 1: we played a bit and in fact he came down 104 00:05:40,680 --> 00:05:42,160 Speaker 1: for Christmas, so we played the Sand Belt Tom and 105 00:05:42,200 --> 00:05:45,359 Speaker 1: then stay for Christmas and then played Southern and I 106 00:05:45,360 --> 00:05:47,480 Speaker 1: had to go back to school, which was unfortunate. Probably 107 00:05:47,640 --> 00:05:51,800 Speaker 1: better in Melbourne and Scotland and January. Um so more importantly, 108 00:05:51,839 --> 00:05:57,400 Speaker 1: how good a caddy with Michael Bamberger. Well, he never 109 00:05:57,520 --> 00:06:01,480 Speaker 1: caddy for me, but um, it was always it always 110 00:06:01,480 --> 00:06:05,480 Speaker 1: seemed very competent. You know, I think there were um 111 00:06:05,480 --> 00:06:09,000 Speaker 1: which has already had to be right unless you're a squirrel. 112 00:06:09,080 --> 00:06:10,960 Speaker 1: I mean, I mean squirrel cave for me quite a lot. 113 00:06:11,040 --> 00:06:13,560 Speaker 1: Then he came for you obviously for years. But there 114 00:06:13,600 --> 00:06:17,000 Speaker 1: are a few guys like that who were great. But um, 115 00:06:17,040 --> 00:06:20,719 Speaker 1: if you weren't in that great category, then competent, nice 116 00:06:20,720 --> 00:06:22,799 Speaker 1: guy who turned up and was arrived was already needed. 117 00:06:23,000 --> 00:06:26,960 Speaker 1: Right for the listeners set the scene? I mean, what year, 118 00:06:27,440 --> 00:06:30,080 Speaker 1: what tour like? When did you get a glimpse of bamburger? 119 00:06:30,360 --> 00:06:36,679 Speaker 1: You know as a looper? Is this really necessary? I'm 120 00:06:36,720 --> 00:06:42,159 Speaker 1: trying to remember. I'm pretty sure because Steve Elkington and 121 00:06:42,200 --> 00:06:44,080 Speaker 1: I traveled a bit that year he played in Europe. 122 00:06:44,120 --> 00:06:48,279 Speaker 1: In fact, we were we were rooming together in Sweden 123 00:06:49,320 --> 00:06:51,800 Speaker 1: watching the We didn't get out on Sunday night and 124 00:06:51,800 --> 00:06:55,360 Speaker 1: we were watching the the Bob Toy Bunker shot it 125 00:06:55,200 --> 00:06:59,280 Speaker 1: and that was six It was am I right, it 126 00:06:59,440 --> 00:07:03,400 Speaker 1: was a Bob. We watched the Bob Twin Bunker shot 127 00:07:03,680 --> 00:07:06,240 Speaker 1: against Greg Norman in a hotel room in Foster Borow 128 00:07:06,480 --> 00:07:09,520 Speaker 1: and Melmo and Swade were playing it Falster anyway, So um, 129 00:07:10,440 --> 00:07:13,480 Speaker 1: I think I remember Michael, it wasn't there long. You 130 00:07:13,480 --> 00:07:15,360 Speaker 1: were riding the Green Road home right when you were 131 00:07:15,640 --> 00:07:18,840 Speaker 1: cutting for facts and you came to Europe for a bit, 132 00:07:18,880 --> 00:07:24,040 Speaker 1: and were you in then in five Saint George as 133 00:07:24,080 --> 00:07:28,760 Speaker 1: I was yeah, yeah, ready six five right, yeah eighty five? 134 00:07:28,840 --> 00:07:32,720 Speaker 1: Yeah you qualified synt Ports now, I believe it or not. 135 00:07:32,800 --> 00:07:34,640 Speaker 1: I was the exempt. I've made the top twenty on 136 00:07:34,680 --> 00:07:38,520 Speaker 1: alisy Ere before, so I was come on totally there 137 00:07:38,840 --> 00:07:41,480 Speaker 1: the one time. I wasn't example very often. But so 138 00:07:41,880 --> 00:07:45,120 Speaker 1: who did you work for there? Jimmy Hall who was 139 00:07:45,120 --> 00:07:47,000 Speaker 1: an American. He was on his honeymo when he was 140 00:07:47,040 --> 00:07:51,600 Speaker 1: twenty two and Royal synt Ports is you guys must 141 00:07:51,680 --> 00:07:57,520 Speaker 1: know it. Uh, you're Jeff great golf course. Uh. We're 142 00:07:57,600 --> 00:08:00,200 Speaker 1: trying not to use the F word in a in 143 00:08:00,320 --> 00:08:03,880 Speaker 1: abusive ways here, but I have to share one abusing thing. Uh. 144 00:08:04,480 --> 00:08:06,560 Speaker 1: One of the years they were playing at some ports 145 00:08:06,600 --> 00:08:08,360 Speaker 1: I think it was here, Darren Clark one so many 146 00:08:08,480 --> 00:08:12,480 Speaker 1: years later, whenever that was. And Mike Donald's, you guys know, 147 00:08:12,640 --> 00:08:15,120 Speaker 1: was a great friend of mine, and we were playing 148 00:08:15,120 --> 00:08:17,920 Speaker 1: at Saint Ports and Mike never played there before. In 149 00:08:18,040 --> 00:08:21,240 Speaker 1: Mike's port fan but in a very humorous, in appropriate way, 150 00:08:21,680 --> 00:08:23,360 Speaker 1: he says, I don't know what the funk they got 151 00:08:23,480 --> 00:08:25,160 Speaker 1: next door here, but there's no fucking way it's harder 152 00:08:25,200 --> 00:08:33,600 Speaker 1: than this fucking golf course. Do you guys remember the caddy, Lauren, 153 00:08:33,840 --> 00:08:37,240 Speaker 1: what you would I don't think you took Alan might not, 154 00:08:37,640 --> 00:08:45,280 Speaker 1: but Mike definitely. Lauren Duncan of course, Yeah we still um, 155 00:08:45,880 --> 00:08:49,560 Speaker 1: we still yeah, we still message each other a lot. Uh. 156 00:08:49,679 --> 00:08:53,839 Speaker 1: In I was saying, I think the checkers in it 157 00:08:53,960 --> 00:08:56,000 Speaker 1: was a little motel right on the same ports course, 158 00:08:56,440 --> 00:08:58,600 Speaker 1: and then went out one night for for evening golf 159 00:08:58,960 --> 00:09:01,800 Speaker 1: and Dave mcneally Lauren Duncan were on the course a 160 00:09:01,840 --> 00:09:04,280 Speaker 1: three old road again and again. You know, literally stays 161 00:09:04,360 --> 00:09:07,560 Speaker 1: light till mont Derby, almost probably ten o'clock at night. 162 00:09:08,760 --> 00:09:11,319 Speaker 1: And I've been around a lot, and but for whatever reason, 163 00:09:11,440 --> 00:09:14,520 Speaker 1: I've only seen Lauren Duncan once in my entire life, 164 00:09:14,559 --> 00:09:19,280 Speaker 1: and it was that evening in a Royal Simports. So 165 00:09:19,520 --> 00:09:23,439 Speaker 1: just last year I was moved to right to Lauren 166 00:09:23,480 --> 00:09:25,880 Speaker 1: and asked him if he remember that evening. Dave McNeilly, 167 00:09:25,920 --> 00:09:30,280 Speaker 1: I've seen hundred plus times since then, and I said, 168 00:09:30,360 --> 00:09:32,800 Speaker 1: by any chance, to remember that evening and he said, 169 00:09:32,800 --> 00:09:35,880 Speaker 1: not only remember the evening. We started the evening at 170 00:09:36,000 --> 00:09:39,400 Speaker 1: we started the afternoon at Royal St George's. Amon Darcy 171 00:09:39,880 --> 00:09:42,640 Speaker 1: gave mcneili and me a lift from Royal St George's 172 00:09:42,640 --> 00:09:45,480 Speaker 1: to our caravan park and we took this back road 173 00:09:45,480 --> 00:09:47,000 Speaker 1: and you guys might know the back road. It's very 174 00:09:47,120 --> 00:09:51,000 Speaker 1: rural and Amon Darcy stopped the car to look at 175 00:09:51,040 --> 00:09:55,560 Speaker 1: a cow with a large head. It's like, how random 176 00:09:55,720 --> 00:09:58,240 Speaker 1: can't you be that I selected one night of thousands 177 00:09:58,320 --> 00:10:00,959 Speaker 1: and thousands, said you remember that a Dorsey stopped the 178 00:10:01,040 --> 00:10:04,080 Speaker 1: car to look at a calibl lark. But I shared 179 00:10:04,120 --> 00:10:08,439 Speaker 1: the story because Mike especially would appreciate that really was 180 00:10:08,640 --> 00:10:11,040 Speaker 1: that little story probably captures a lot about the European 181 00:10:11,120 --> 00:10:16,040 Speaker 1: Tour because Duncan cared there are a lot he was 182 00:10:17,080 --> 00:10:19,800 Speaker 1: for obviously standard in that. Remember he dressed up in 183 00:10:19,840 --> 00:10:21,679 Speaker 1: the plus fours in the bow tie when he came 184 00:10:21,800 --> 00:10:24,839 Speaker 1: for Stadler in three, when he played with Watson the 185 00:10:24,960 --> 00:10:27,240 Speaker 1: last day, and I mean, Dunk was great. He came 186 00:10:27,280 --> 00:10:29,000 Speaker 1: for me a lot. He was a really interesting guy. 187 00:10:29,720 --> 00:10:31,400 Speaker 1: I was told him, you should have been a school teacher, 188 00:10:31,440 --> 00:10:33,400 Speaker 1: had been an amazing school teacher because he was really 189 00:10:33,480 --> 00:10:36,360 Speaker 1: smart and he just had a great personality and I 190 00:10:36,400 --> 00:10:38,959 Speaker 1: could explain stuff and had a great view of the world. 191 00:10:39,040 --> 00:10:42,959 Speaker 1: And he came from it. Was a terrific guy. And 192 00:10:43,280 --> 00:10:46,480 Speaker 1: he's living in he's getting ready to play golf. Last 193 00:10:46,520 --> 00:10:48,160 Speaker 1: week when I was messaging him, he's living in down 194 00:10:48,240 --> 00:10:52,640 Speaker 1: in Scottsdale. So um, he's going. Well done. I wish 195 00:10:52,679 --> 00:10:54,199 Speaker 1: he came more, but he's kind of done with it. 196 00:10:54,320 --> 00:10:57,680 Speaker 1: He's fed up with it. I mean that that's such 197 00:10:57,720 --> 00:11:01,040 Speaker 1: a romanticized era in Gulf kind of the eighties. On 198 00:11:01,080 --> 00:11:03,280 Speaker 1: the European Tour, you had all all these Hall of 199 00:11:03,320 --> 00:11:07,160 Speaker 1: famers coming through and the Ryder Cut became, you know, 200 00:11:07,240 --> 00:11:10,679 Speaker 1: the super Bowl of golf and it still feels like 201 00:11:10,720 --> 00:11:13,040 Speaker 1: it was a little wild and wooly out there. I mean, 202 00:11:13,880 --> 00:11:16,480 Speaker 1: was it as much fun Mike to be a part 203 00:11:16,520 --> 00:11:17,960 Speaker 1: of it as as it is for those of us 204 00:11:18,000 --> 00:11:20,640 Speaker 1: to kind of look back and try and and try 205 00:11:20,679 --> 00:11:25,319 Speaker 1: and recreat it and imagine what it was. It was. 206 00:11:25,400 --> 00:11:27,480 Speaker 1: You don't realize that at the time it was luck 207 00:11:27,520 --> 00:11:31,480 Speaker 1: the Australian Tour at the same time when Greg was 208 00:11:31,559 --> 00:11:33,840 Speaker 1: playing in the tour was flying and the Graham Marsh 209 00:11:33,880 --> 00:11:36,440 Speaker 1: and David Graham and I'm share are lots of great 210 00:11:36,480 --> 00:11:41,160 Speaker 1: place down here. But yeah, Europe was um, I'm gonna 211 00:11:41,200 --> 00:11:44,240 Speaker 1: trouble was much better organized. By the mid eighties, Randy 212 00:11:44,320 --> 00:11:48,079 Speaker 1: Fox was Randy had everything pretty organized. We would turn 213 00:11:48,160 --> 00:11:51,800 Speaker 1: up a terminal one that you know, six thirty on 214 00:11:51,920 --> 00:11:56,520 Speaker 1: Tuesday morning, British wise and fly to somewhere Stockholm, madrad Ord, 215 00:11:56,559 --> 00:11:59,400 Speaker 1: Paris and pick us up in a bust and tuck 216 00:11:59,480 --> 00:12:01,200 Speaker 1: us the golf course when to play a practice around 217 00:12:01,240 --> 00:12:04,040 Speaker 1: and go to the hotel. And it was fine. It 218 00:12:04,120 --> 00:12:06,559 Speaker 1: was We didn't know it was pretty organized, but it was. 219 00:12:06,920 --> 00:12:13,120 Speaker 1: Looking back, it was great fun. And you don't realized 220 00:12:13,120 --> 00:12:15,360 Speaker 1: how great that era was until you look back on 221 00:12:15,480 --> 00:12:18,720 Speaker 1: it and when you had you know, savvy fellow lil 222 00:12:18,720 --> 00:12:21,920 Speaker 1: Anger was he Monty a little later a Lazabel just 223 00:12:22,000 --> 00:12:25,520 Speaker 1: to touch later. But there are amazing players. It was 224 00:12:25,559 --> 00:12:28,360 Speaker 1: a great era and lots of Sam Tyrens and Mark 225 00:12:28,440 --> 00:12:31,439 Speaker 1: James and Ken Brown and Darcy and you know that 226 00:12:31,559 --> 00:12:34,199 Speaker 1: the second tier in Europe was it was a it 227 00:12:34,360 --> 00:12:37,920 Speaker 1: was a busloader Gordon Brandon Jr. Because we were really 228 00:12:38,040 --> 00:12:40,920 Speaker 1: good players. So it was a fun area to play. 229 00:12:41,080 --> 00:12:43,760 Speaker 1: And the courses were we play. We're playing Portmarik and 230 00:12:43,840 --> 00:12:48,360 Speaker 1: Walton Heath and Stangingdale and Shawn Ty and Foster bro 231 00:12:48,559 --> 00:12:50,360 Speaker 1: and put it the Hero in Madrid, so we put 232 00:12:50,400 --> 00:12:53,760 Speaker 1: a lot of good golf courses too. So it was 233 00:12:53,920 --> 00:12:57,040 Speaker 1: what was you know, no one apart from the real 234 00:12:57,120 --> 00:12:59,880 Speaker 1: stars made any great great amounts of money. It was 235 00:12:59,920 --> 00:13:02,880 Speaker 1: a great ear to be a part of. And not 236 00:13:03,000 --> 00:13:06,559 Speaker 1: just great players, but like big personalities right like these 237 00:13:06,600 --> 00:13:09,920 Speaker 1: are these are Hall of Fame talkers and racing tours 238 00:13:10,040 --> 00:13:15,160 Speaker 1: and I mean it was was the camaraderie you know 239 00:13:15,600 --> 00:13:18,760 Speaker 1: that uh palpable. I mean, obviously we're trying to beat 240 00:13:18,760 --> 00:13:20,760 Speaker 1: each other, but it seems like you kind of moved 241 00:13:20,800 --> 00:13:23,040 Speaker 1: into caravan and there was there was there was a 242 00:13:23,120 --> 00:13:25,480 Speaker 1: lot more hanging out and a lot more together and 243 00:13:25,520 --> 00:13:27,959 Speaker 1: it's yeah, there was. I mean the Australians all we 244 00:13:28,080 --> 00:13:31,360 Speaker 1: were boringly. We all finished up buying houses and Bagshot 245 00:13:32,240 --> 00:13:35,240 Speaker 1: just just ten minutes down the road from Sangandale. But 246 00:13:35,760 --> 00:13:39,040 Speaker 1: that wasn't until the late eighties really, So in the 247 00:13:39,160 --> 00:13:41,360 Speaker 1: mid eighties when Michael was there first, we were just 248 00:13:41,480 --> 00:13:43,599 Speaker 1: on the road. Every week. We would go to the 249 00:13:43,600 --> 00:13:46,839 Speaker 1: Holiday Inn in London. We would check in at the 250 00:13:46,920 --> 00:13:49,640 Speaker 1: South Africains John Bland and David Frost and Bioki and 251 00:13:50,640 --> 00:13:53,720 Speaker 1: Petter Fowler and Nobelow and Turner. We were just checking 252 00:13:53,720 --> 00:13:55,839 Speaker 1: into the Holiday And in London on Sunday night and 253 00:13:56,240 --> 00:13:59,040 Speaker 1: go out and it on Monday Tuesday, and so we 254 00:13:59,360 --> 00:14:02,400 Speaker 1: so no one really took a week off because what 255 00:14:02,480 --> 00:14:05,120 Speaker 1: else were you going to do? So I played in 256 00:14:07,080 --> 00:14:09,120 Speaker 1: I laugh at these guys who were tired. After three 257 00:14:09,200 --> 00:14:14,800 Speaker 1: weeks we started in the Tasmanian Open in Milton, Tasmania. 258 00:14:14,960 --> 00:14:20,200 Speaker 1: Obviously in January I played twenty three out of twenty 259 00:14:20,280 --> 00:14:28,120 Speaker 1: four weeks in seventeen countries, because um, what else were 260 00:14:28,120 --> 00:14:31,400 Speaker 1: we going to do? So we went four or five 261 00:14:31,440 --> 00:14:39,640 Speaker 1: in Australia, then straight to Asia and went from Hong Kong, Singapore, Thailand, Indonesia, India, Taiwan, career, 262 00:14:39,800 --> 00:14:43,360 Speaker 1: Japan and then straight to a week off when stayed 263 00:14:43,360 --> 00:14:48,280 Speaker 1: with Jamie crowin San Diego, when Tom and Jamie was 264 00:14:48,320 --> 00:14:51,400 Speaker 1: still living in San Diego and Cobra was well, Cobra 265 00:14:51,600 --> 00:14:54,760 Speaker 1: was four, so Coba was sort of just getting going 266 00:14:54,840 --> 00:14:57,400 Speaker 1: then really you know that he was making some great clubs, 267 00:14:57,440 --> 00:14:59,880 Speaker 1: and so we had a week in San Diego and 268 00:15:00,120 --> 00:15:03,080 Speaker 1: and then we went to Europe and started playing over there. 269 00:15:03,720 --> 00:15:06,840 Speaker 1: That was Jamie's first year in Europe, so it was 270 00:15:06,960 --> 00:15:09,880 Speaker 1: um and we just kept playing. So it was kind 271 00:15:09,880 --> 00:15:12,600 Speaker 1: of wild, really, Jeff, do you I feel like you're 272 00:15:12,600 --> 00:15:14,400 Speaker 1: born in the wrong era because I kind of picture you, 273 00:15:15,400 --> 00:15:17,680 Speaker 1: you know, as one of a throwback guy who would 274 00:15:17,680 --> 00:15:19,840 Speaker 1: have loved Barnes drolling around and playing with the old 275 00:15:19,840 --> 00:15:24,840 Speaker 1: equipment on its wild and wily courses like H twenty 276 00:15:24,880 --> 00:15:29,120 Speaker 1: four doesn't sound any fun, um, but I played Europe 277 00:15:29,800 --> 00:15:32,640 Speaker 1: late nineties and you could see what it was like. 278 00:15:32,760 --> 00:15:37,000 Speaker 1: It's still kind of was that. Uh, it was just 279 00:15:37,120 --> 00:15:39,480 Speaker 1: a group, the players and the caddies and even the 280 00:15:39,560 --> 00:15:42,600 Speaker 1: equipment reps and the rules officials. We all just you're 281 00:15:42,600 --> 00:15:44,800 Speaker 1: all in a foreign country together, right, So you're all 282 00:15:44,840 --> 00:15:47,240 Speaker 1: together and you just everyone stay in the same hotel. 283 00:15:47,280 --> 00:15:50,120 Speaker 1: There'll be a caddy hotel and a player hotel and 284 00:15:50,200 --> 00:15:51,760 Speaker 1: all the players. You just go down to the bar 285 00:15:51,920 --> 00:15:54,680 Speaker 1: and the hotel at some point at six thirty or something, fine, 286 00:15:54,720 --> 00:15:56,080 Speaker 1: three or four people and go out to dinner. It 287 00:15:56,160 --> 00:15:59,240 Speaker 1: might be different people every night, So within three months 288 00:15:59,280 --> 00:16:01,000 Speaker 1: you know the whole two and you're sort of part 289 00:16:01,040 --> 00:16:02,760 Speaker 1: of it. It's sort of probably why the Ryder Cup 290 00:16:02,800 --> 00:16:05,720 Speaker 1: has been so strong from the European side, because they're 291 00:16:05,760 --> 00:16:07,960 Speaker 1: just together. You know, that's not a team, it's not 292 00:16:08,040 --> 00:16:10,600 Speaker 1: a tour of individuals. At least it wasn't then. Um, 293 00:16:10,920 --> 00:16:13,280 Speaker 1: it was just great fun. You know, you'd land on 294 00:16:13,320 --> 00:16:15,840 Speaker 1: the plane, you'd fly from Heathrow, There'll be fifty people 295 00:16:15,880 --> 00:16:19,480 Speaker 1: on the plane, players and caddies and you landed zero 296 00:16:19,560 --> 00:16:22,520 Speaker 1: Airport or something and going to Crown and there'd be 297 00:16:23,040 --> 00:16:25,560 Speaker 1: a coach bus trying to take us to the course 298 00:16:25,640 --> 00:16:28,440 Speaker 1: two hours. And once people are on the bus, especially 299 00:16:28,480 --> 00:16:30,600 Speaker 1: the caddies, they're like just telling the driver, who's some 300 00:16:30,960 --> 00:16:33,240 Speaker 1: Swiss guy, just go, just go. Everyone's here, just go. 301 00:16:33,600 --> 00:16:35,840 Speaker 1: So if you didn't get your bags first, you could. 302 00:16:35,880 --> 00:16:37,760 Speaker 1: The bus would just go and you would just be 303 00:16:37,880 --> 00:16:39,600 Speaker 1: stuck two hours away from where you were going to go. 304 00:16:39,960 --> 00:16:43,480 Speaker 1: Stuff like that. Um, and you're getting sixty people on 305 00:16:43,560 --> 00:16:45,960 Speaker 1: a forty seat bus and people are sitting on golf bags, 306 00:16:46,040 --> 00:16:47,800 Speaker 1: and you know, there's this really what I wanted to do, 307 00:16:47,960 --> 00:16:51,160 Speaker 1: But it was just incredible fun. Um. As good as 308 00:16:51,200 --> 00:16:52,600 Speaker 1: it is to get handed the keys of a brand 309 00:16:52,640 --> 00:16:55,400 Speaker 1: new car every week and stay on your own and 310 00:16:55,480 --> 00:16:57,440 Speaker 1: do your own thing, it's way more fun to do 311 00:16:57,520 --> 00:16:59,080 Speaker 1: it the old schoolway. So yeah, it would have been 312 00:16:59,160 --> 00:17:05,040 Speaker 1: brilliant fun. But I'll take my era. Yeah, in Switzerland, 313 00:17:05,080 --> 00:17:08,160 Speaker 1: I got. I hated that golf course. Just the most 314 00:17:08,200 --> 00:17:10,200 Speaker 1: beautiful place in the world. That view from the seventh 315 00:17:10,240 --> 00:17:13,440 Speaker 1: hole is probably the best, most beautiful view in golf 316 00:17:14,200 --> 00:17:16,320 Speaker 1: looking down the mountains. I don't know how many miles 317 00:17:16,359 --> 00:17:18,080 Speaker 1: you can see from from that. To you, it must 318 00:17:18,080 --> 00:17:21,600 Speaker 1: be tens of miles down that, but one of the 319 00:17:21,680 --> 00:17:24,280 Speaker 1: worst holes we've ever seen. It's just a heart miserable. 320 00:17:25,200 --> 00:17:29,560 Speaker 1: I hated that golf course. Um. I always about to 321 00:17:29,600 --> 00:17:32,199 Speaker 1: go there and not play, just go there for the weekend, 322 00:17:32,280 --> 00:17:35,600 Speaker 1: just not playing like you remember the remember the course 323 00:17:35,640 --> 00:17:40,120 Speaker 1: southside of Florence. I think it was called I remember, yeah, yeah, 324 00:17:40,119 --> 00:17:47,760 Speaker 1: I do, yeah, yeah, Colin burn caddy for me. That 325 00:17:47,840 --> 00:17:51,000 Speaker 1: who was Colin was a great friend of Duncan's. That 326 00:17:51,720 --> 00:17:54,760 Speaker 1: Colin Kadi for Goosen when he won both his opens. 327 00:17:54,840 --> 00:17:58,800 Speaker 1: But remember Colin coming for me there. But great ice 328 00:17:58,840 --> 00:18:02,760 Speaker 1: cream in Florence. So it was an US weight great 329 00:18:02,800 --> 00:18:07,360 Speaker 1: os cream. Yeah, I think to your point, but both 330 00:18:07,440 --> 00:18:11,120 Speaker 1: jump it and Mike, you know, uh, of course all 331 00:18:11,200 --> 00:18:13,399 Speaker 1: four of us missed, you know, the tour as the 332 00:18:13,480 --> 00:18:16,200 Speaker 1: tour in the US when it was really the tour, 333 00:18:17,600 --> 00:18:19,920 Speaker 1: but European in Europe in the eighties, Mike, when you 334 00:18:20,000 --> 00:18:24,080 Speaker 1: got definitely was really a tour. And what you're describing 335 00:18:24,200 --> 00:18:27,520 Speaker 1: is is golf without an entourage. The entourage was the tour, 336 00:18:27,840 --> 00:18:31,560 Speaker 1: and all the tour was was you know, John Cardmore 337 00:18:32,200 --> 00:18:36,920 Speaker 1: and fifty caddies and ninety players. Uh, that's about it. 338 00:18:37,720 --> 00:18:39,960 Speaker 1: A couple of equipment guys being had an equipment guy. 339 00:18:40,040 --> 00:18:43,520 Speaker 1: But it was and you know, the currency changed every week, 340 00:18:44,040 --> 00:18:46,920 Speaker 1: and it felt like I've been interesting to talk to 341 00:18:47,000 --> 00:18:49,040 Speaker 1: the guys who played in the sixties in Europe in 342 00:18:49,080 --> 00:18:51,560 Speaker 1: the seventies. But I guess Jack was a big style. 343 00:18:51,640 --> 00:18:55,879 Speaker 1: But it felt like, yeah, we were playing with some 344 00:18:56,000 --> 00:18:57,600 Speaker 1: of the best players in the world, which was probably 345 00:18:57,640 --> 00:18:59,600 Speaker 1: the first time that had happened in Europe. Sevy and 346 00:19:00,280 --> 00:19:04,680 Speaker 1: transformed that tour through his presence, and you know that 347 00:19:04,760 --> 00:19:07,600 Speaker 1: those other guys fell down and Langer and as great 348 00:19:07,640 --> 00:19:09,920 Speaker 1: as they were, got dragged along by Sevy because he 349 00:19:10,000 --> 00:19:13,560 Speaker 1: was he was just the guy every weekend. It was 350 00:19:16,240 --> 00:19:18,359 Speaker 1: everyone loves Sevy. I mean, he was amazing and it 351 00:19:18,480 --> 00:19:21,280 Speaker 1: was he I'm sure he had his moments, his appearance, 352 00:19:21,320 --> 00:19:23,600 Speaker 1: money fights, and he's you could get a bit cranky 353 00:19:23,640 --> 00:19:26,760 Speaker 1: at times, but you know, there were how do you 354 00:19:26,840 --> 00:19:28,920 Speaker 1: imagine how much pressure was on him to being the 355 00:19:29,040 --> 00:19:31,119 Speaker 1: main guy there. Not every didn't play every week, but 356 00:19:31,520 --> 00:19:33,600 Speaker 1: every week he played, he was the main guy there, 357 00:19:34,280 --> 00:19:37,480 Speaker 1: like Tiger was, you know, expected to win. You know, 358 00:19:38,240 --> 00:19:39,800 Speaker 1: you can't miss the cut because all the people are 359 00:19:39,800 --> 00:19:41,280 Speaker 1: gonna turn up on the weekend and what you play. 360 00:19:41,359 --> 00:19:44,879 Speaker 1: So there's a lot of pressures on him that we 361 00:19:45,000 --> 00:19:48,480 Speaker 1: didn't really appreciate, probably, but he handed it brilliantly and 362 00:19:48,560 --> 00:19:51,080 Speaker 1: it was such a great player to watch. I mean, God, 363 00:19:51,080 --> 00:19:54,560 Speaker 1: I wish I could see him play again. What's your 364 00:19:54,600 --> 00:19:58,560 Speaker 1: best Sevy story? There were lots of seventy stories. I mean, 365 00:19:59,200 --> 00:20:01,800 Speaker 1: the best service to there his shots, just watching his shots. 366 00:20:01,880 --> 00:20:07,040 Speaker 1: But um, we were, you know, we were in a car. 367 00:20:07,320 --> 00:20:08,960 Speaker 1: Not that sappens very often, but we're in a car. 368 00:20:09,040 --> 00:20:10,440 Speaker 1: One was going back to the airport or something. We 369 00:20:10,560 --> 00:20:12,080 Speaker 1: just finished at the same time. We jumped out a 370 00:20:12,080 --> 00:20:16,840 Speaker 1: car and at the airport and I asked him, so, 371 00:20:16,960 --> 00:20:19,560 Speaker 1: what was the best shot you ever hit? Without even 372 00:20:19,600 --> 00:20:24,160 Speaker 1: thinking about He said the chip at Letham. I said, 373 00:20:24,720 --> 00:20:28,640 Speaker 1: I said, what about the three wood in the Ryder Cup? 374 00:20:29,760 --> 00:20:31,560 Speaker 1: He said, the chip was for me. That was for 375 00:20:31,640 --> 00:20:35,960 Speaker 1: the team. The chip was for me, which was you know, 376 00:20:36,080 --> 00:20:39,440 Speaker 1: but that is the coolest chip ever though, like, yeah, 377 00:20:39,680 --> 00:20:41,560 Speaker 1: well he played it looks like it's going in. It 378 00:20:41,720 --> 00:20:44,840 Speaker 1: just didn't look that difficult and he made it Cain'd 379 00:20:44,840 --> 00:20:46,520 Speaker 1: of look easy. But it was in long grass and 380 00:20:46,600 --> 00:20:48,200 Speaker 1: it was a bit grainy, and it was just and 381 00:20:48,280 --> 00:20:49,640 Speaker 1: it was the Open, you know, it was the last 382 00:20:49,640 --> 00:20:51,920 Speaker 1: hole of the Open. He's Mr Green and he needs 383 00:20:51,960 --> 00:20:53,600 Speaker 1: to get up and down. He just and he hit 384 00:20:53,640 --> 00:20:56,399 Speaker 1: it so quickly walked up there, grabbed the club and 385 00:20:56,440 --> 00:20:58,480 Speaker 1: just said the most beautiful chip. It was a great shot. 386 00:20:58,600 --> 00:21:02,640 Speaker 1: But I remember him playing it wentworth I was an amateur. 387 00:21:02,640 --> 00:21:04,800 Speaker 1: I was over there. I wasn't even playing the Torrent. 388 00:21:04,840 --> 00:21:07,760 Speaker 1: We're over playing the British Amlar. We went out to 389 00:21:07,800 --> 00:21:10,479 Speaker 1: watch the Martini. It was a cold, dark, miserable day, 390 00:21:10,560 --> 00:21:13,040 Speaker 1: thirty six hours the last day because I lost the 391 00:21:13,119 --> 00:21:14,760 Speaker 1: day for rain. And the tenth that went was that 392 00:21:14,880 --> 00:21:17,720 Speaker 1: kind of you know, Jeff, the part three were hit over. 393 00:21:18,240 --> 00:21:21,920 Speaker 1: You either go left on the left side of the 394 00:21:21,960 --> 00:21:23,760 Speaker 1: green and put across, or you go over the pine 395 00:21:23,800 --> 00:21:28,159 Speaker 1: trees at the flag. And it was back then it 396 00:21:28,240 --> 00:21:32,400 Speaker 1: was a three iron shot, and most of the guys 397 00:21:32,440 --> 00:21:34,720 Speaker 1: I've watched were just hitting it left and putting fifty 398 00:21:34,760 --> 00:21:37,480 Speaker 1: ft across the green. A couple of went over the trees, 399 00:21:38,960 --> 00:21:41,760 Speaker 1: and Steady just aimed left. There's slight. He sliced his 400 00:21:41,880 --> 00:21:46,680 Speaker 1: three I like thirty yards for twenty yards around here, 401 00:21:47,320 --> 00:21:49,280 Speaker 1: and just sliced around the trees to about fifteen ft. 402 00:21:49,320 --> 00:21:51,040 Speaker 1: It was like, who does that? I mean, it was 403 00:21:51,119 --> 00:21:53,800 Speaker 1: just the most amazing shot. I mean it was just 404 00:21:54,000 --> 00:21:56,400 Speaker 1: like how did you even one? How did you think 405 00:21:56,440 --> 00:21:59,520 Speaker 1: of it? And having thought of it, what made you 406 00:22:00,000 --> 00:22:02,359 Speaker 1: even want to try it? And then how did you 407 00:22:02,440 --> 00:22:05,160 Speaker 1: pull it off? I was like that shot over the wall. 408 00:22:05,320 --> 00:22:09,520 Speaker 1: Usually that Plark in Switzerland. Jeff, Yeah, I mean we were. 409 00:22:10,400 --> 00:22:13,480 Speaker 1: We were in the player's tent off the eighth green, 410 00:22:14,680 --> 00:22:17,080 Speaker 1: and Billy Foster came in and he said, I've just 411 00:22:17,200 --> 00:22:21,040 Speaker 1: seen the best shot I've ever seen. Of course, because 412 00:22:21,080 --> 00:22:22,680 Speaker 1: they missed it on the TV. They got the t 413 00:22:22,840 --> 00:22:24,520 Speaker 1: shot and and he when he chipped it in. But 414 00:22:25,920 --> 00:22:28,560 Speaker 1: I went back there the next year. I said, Billy, 415 00:22:28,680 --> 00:22:30,360 Speaker 1: was that really where the ball was? He said, that's 416 00:22:30,359 --> 00:22:33,600 Speaker 1: where the ball was. Like, it's unimaginable that shot he 417 00:22:33,680 --> 00:22:38,920 Speaker 1: hit there Nicholuse. Billy walked out in the fairway and 418 00:22:39,000 --> 00:22:42,080 Speaker 1: he looked in the bag, assuming that he had the sandwich. 419 00:22:42,960 --> 00:22:44,960 Speaker 1: He said, my god, the sandwich was still in the bag. 420 00:22:45,119 --> 00:22:50,119 Speaker 1: He's got the wedge. Just just a ridiculous shot he 421 00:22:50,200 --> 00:22:53,879 Speaker 1: hit there. Beat Barry Lane. Sorry, Barry Lane beat him, 422 00:22:53,920 --> 00:22:56,440 Speaker 1: Which was How was that? That was kind of out 423 00:22:56,480 --> 00:23:00,000 Speaker 1: of nowhere? Berry Lane dying a couple of weeks ago. 424 00:23:00,000 --> 00:23:01,480 Speaker 1: That was such a shock. Well, he was a He 425 00:23:01,560 --> 00:23:06,560 Speaker 1: was a cool player too, and um, yeah, there are 426 00:23:06,600 --> 00:23:08,760 Speaker 1: too many Sevy stories. Yeah, it was funny. We were 427 00:23:08,800 --> 00:23:11,160 Speaker 1: playing yesterday, was playing with a friend of mine who 428 00:23:11,520 --> 00:23:13,160 Speaker 1: I've got a five wood in the bag and we're 429 00:23:13,160 --> 00:23:14,879 Speaker 1: talking about hybrids, and he was saying how much he 430 00:23:14,920 --> 00:23:18,200 Speaker 1: hated hybrids. And I said, this beautiful ping forward used 431 00:23:18,200 --> 00:23:21,720 Speaker 1: to hit it really well, and Sevy looked at it 432 00:23:21,760 --> 00:23:23,960 Speaker 1: and just kind of shook his head, said, you can't 433 00:23:23,960 --> 00:23:25,880 Speaker 1: play with that? If I was gone, had to hand 434 00:23:25,920 --> 00:23:29,880 Speaker 1: on the backs, gone, what an idiot? And when yeah, 435 00:23:30,560 --> 00:23:32,000 Speaker 1: just because I can't one, I was like, you said, 436 00:23:32,040 --> 00:23:34,639 Speaker 1: he doesn't mean I can't eat a forward? Yeah, pin four. 437 00:23:34,880 --> 00:23:36,439 Speaker 1: It was just a look of disdain, like, how can 438 00:23:36,480 --> 00:23:41,840 Speaker 1: you play with that thing? God? Anyway, that's a sad story. 439 00:23:41,920 --> 00:23:44,840 Speaker 1: But yeah, I can imagine the withering judgment. Yeah, well 440 00:23:44,880 --> 00:23:48,639 Speaker 1: I mean, I mean, yeah, yeah, those I'm playing with 441 00:23:48,760 --> 00:23:51,680 Speaker 1: Sevy and Greg hunting dog on. Yeah, the six that 442 00:23:51,760 --> 00:23:53,800 Speaker 1: hanging out Jeff, which which no one ever hit for 443 00:23:53,880 --> 00:23:59,080 Speaker 1: two long pat five kind of uphill second shot had 444 00:23:59,119 --> 00:24:00,399 Speaker 1: the bounds on the right and up that out of 445 00:24:00,400 --> 00:24:03,200 Speaker 1: bounds really in play, but that was narrow. You could 446 00:24:03,240 --> 00:24:05,080 Speaker 1: make eight there in a in a heartbeat if you 447 00:24:05,680 --> 00:24:07,000 Speaker 1: hit it in the trees with your T shirt or 448 00:24:07,040 --> 00:24:09,560 Speaker 1: your second shot. Me it was just a drive and 449 00:24:09,640 --> 00:24:11,760 Speaker 1: a bunch of three on up the fire and Sevan 450 00:24:11,800 --> 00:24:14,720 Speaker 1: Greek at these one or two or three on something. 451 00:24:14,720 --> 00:24:17,240 Speaker 1: They's an enormous second shot long and they both flew 452 00:24:17,280 --> 00:24:20,359 Speaker 1: it on the green. Yeah, I'd be like it was 453 00:24:20,440 --> 00:24:24,960 Speaker 1: just like these guys are a different level, which was 454 00:24:25,240 --> 00:24:27,119 Speaker 1: that was another good Yeah, that was an interesting seventy 455 00:24:27,119 --> 00:24:31,040 Speaker 1: story eighty three Masters Australian Masters Sevi and Greg and 456 00:24:31,119 --> 00:24:34,080 Speaker 1: Sevees driving it like an arrow. I mean that's a narrow, 457 00:24:34,280 --> 00:24:38,280 Speaker 1: tight driving course. He snap hooked it off the hit 458 00:24:38,359 --> 00:24:40,000 Speaker 1: a tree and bounced out the first round. But that 459 00:24:40,080 --> 00:24:44,560 Speaker 1: was the only bad driver I remember him hitting. Called 460 00:24:44,600 --> 00:24:47,280 Speaker 1: Manuel Ramas was cutting for him and run the Portuguese 461 00:24:47,359 --> 00:24:52,560 Speaker 1: Open about five or ten years before this. So Sevier 462 00:24:52,680 --> 00:24:54,600 Speaker 1: just brought him down for to cattying for him for 463 00:24:54,640 --> 00:24:59,520 Speaker 1: a one off week and he was playing beautifully but 464 00:24:59,640 --> 00:25:02,280 Speaker 1: just not doing anything. He just bumping around. He hit 465 00:25:02,320 --> 00:25:04,320 Speaker 1: the three wood into the tenth that hanging on the 466 00:25:04,359 --> 00:25:07,280 Speaker 1: end of the wind three would just blisted this thing 467 00:25:07,320 --> 00:25:10,560 Speaker 1: to about six ft. Just a beautiful shot through the 468 00:25:10,600 --> 00:25:15,840 Speaker 1: wind and Mr part and I said to Ramas, it's 469 00:25:15,840 --> 00:25:18,440 Speaker 1: not putting that well is he? He said, nobody will 470 00:25:18,480 --> 00:25:23,760 Speaker 1: be by Augusta, which was three when he won by four, 471 00:25:23,800 --> 00:25:25,679 Speaker 1: I think we're chipping at the last holder beat Watson 472 00:25:25,720 --> 00:25:29,040 Speaker 1: by four shots. You know he was he was that 473 00:25:29,200 --> 00:25:31,960 Speaker 1: was kind of peaks heavy and it was and he 474 00:25:32,080 --> 00:25:34,320 Speaker 1: came down. It was playing Australia every year. He first 475 00:25:34,400 --> 00:25:36,920 Speaker 1: came down here for the when he first came down 476 00:25:37,000 --> 00:25:43,560 Speaker 1: for the seventy six Australian Open at the Australian when 477 00:25:43,720 --> 00:25:49,520 Speaker 1: Jeff the ninth hold used to be the eighteen and 478 00:25:51,160 --> 00:25:55,200 Speaker 1: as an apocryple story probably true that Kerry Packer, who 479 00:25:55,280 --> 00:25:58,760 Speaker 1: was who was the richest guy in Australia, who owned 480 00:25:59,280 --> 00:26:03,200 Speaker 1: charl nine, who transformed cricket, and his ChIL nine was 481 00:26:03,280 --> 00:26:05,800 Speaker 1: the first in the Australian Open, was the first torment 482 00:26:05,880 --> 00:26:09,080 Speaker 1: to televise every hole, all seventy two holes was on 483 00:26:09,200 --> 00:26:14,600 Speaker 1: TV starting in seventy five or seventy six. Anyway, Savy 484 00:26:14,720 --> 00:26:16,600 Speaker 1: was down on that way down the bottom of the 485 00:26:16,680 --> 00:26:20,600 Speaker 1: hill there on the Monday, hitting bunker shots out of 486 00:26:20,640 --> 00:26:21,920 Speaker 1: the butt out of the bunk on the on the 487 00:26:22,119 --> 00:26:23,719 Speaker 1: on the what was the alienh Green, nother ninth Green. 488 00:26:23,720 --> 00:26:26,399 Speaker 1: He was practicing bunker shots, hitting four or five balls, 489 00:26:27,160 --> 00:26:28,760 Speaker 1: and Packard had no idea who he was, and he 490 00:26:28,920 --> 00:26:31,359 Speaker 1: ballowed from the top of the hill or screaming at 491 00:26:31,400 --> 00:26:33,800 Speaker 1: this guy, dare you betting bunker. There's things that are 492 00:26:33,840 --> 00:26:38,320 Speaker 1: practiced fair away and Sev six and went home first round. 493 00:26:39,320 --> 00:26:42,160 Speaker 1: What he played two rounds, But yeah, no one spoke 494 00:26:42,160 --> 00:26:44,520 Speaker 1: to severy like that, no matter who, and neither of 495 00:26:44,560 --> 00:26:47,879 Speaker 1: them had any idea who the other was. So here 496 00:26:48,000 --> 00:26:50,320 Speaker 1: was Sevy getting screamed at by some big fat guy 497 00:26:50,400 --> 00:26:52,560 Speaker 1: up on the first team from fifty yards away bellowing 498 00:26:52,600 --> 00:26:55,040 Speaker 1: at him for hitting father six balls out of the bunker. 499 00:26:55,920 --> 00:26:58,439 Speaker 1: That wasn't gonna work anyway. Sevy came back in seventy 500 00:26:58,520 --> 00:27:00,879 Speaker 1: eight to play at Raw Melbourne. He played Row Melbourne 501 00:27:00,920 --> 00:27:03,480 Speaker 1: every year the five years the Australian PJ was at 502 00:27:03,520 --> 00:27:06,439 Speaker 1: Row Melbourne, which was kind of his course. I mean, 503 00:27:06,520 --> 00:27:09,960 Speaker 1: Jeff obviously lives on the course, but Mackenzie built that 504 00:27:10,040 --> 00:27:13,919 Speaker 1: course for seven You didn't know it, but he um 505 00:27:14,200 --> 00:27:16,360 Speaker 1: he built that course for Sevy. It was just gave 506 00:27:16,480 --> 00:27:20,760 Speaker 1: him space but concrete, hard greens and much more difficult 507 00:27:20,800 --> 00:27:22,639 Speaker 1: shots from the wrong side of the fairway. But if 508 00:27:22,680 --> 00:27:25,240 Speaker 1: you could play from the wrong side of the failure 509 00:27:25,240 --> 00:27:27,800 Speaker 1: and hit a great enough shot, you can still play 510 00:27:27,880 --> 00:27:30,320 Speaker 1: the whole Yeah, you can still get it on the 511 00:27:30,359 --> 00:27:32,359 Speaker 1: ground and get it somewhere near the pin and if 512 00:27:32,440 --> 00:27:35,520 Speaker 1: you didn't then you he could get it up and down. 513 00:27:37,040 --> 00:27:39,080 Speaker 1: So and it was you know, hard fast greens, and 514 00:27:39,160 --> 00:27:41,040 Speaker 1: it was it was just made for him. That place 515 00:27:41,200 --> 00:27:45,920 Speaker 1: more more southern Augusta even you know, that was Servy's place, 516 00:27:45,960 --> 00:27:49,280 Speaker 1: and he I watched him play. I was going to 517 00:27:49,400 --> 00:27:52,040 Speaker 1: caddy for him in because a friend of mine was 518 00:27:52,160 --> 00:27:55,439 Speaker 1: his Ed Barner's agent in Australia, so he set up 519 00:27:55,440 --> 00:27:56,840 Speaker 1: for me to caddy for him. But I had an 520 00:27:56,880 --> 00:28:00,560 Speaker 1: exam on university exam on that Wednesday, on the day 521 00:28:00,600 --> 00:28:02,040 Speaker 1: of the pro am, so I couldn't do it, which 522 00:28:02,760 --> 00:28:05,359 Speaker 1: I should have just skipped the examles, of course you 523 00:28:05,400 --> 00:28:08,000 Speaker 1: should have. That's the most that's the worst decision in 524 00:28:08,080 --> 00:28:10,640 Speaker 1: golf history other than you know, Phil at Wing, other 525 00:28:10,680 --> 00:28:14,240 Speaker 1: than to Phil at wingfoot but oh my god, so alright, 526 00:28:14,359 --> 00:28:17,440 Speaker 1: so I puttished up watching him play pretty much every 527 00:28:17,520 --> 00:28:21,880 Speaker 1: hole and then he was he finished third that that week. 528 00:28:21,960 --> 00:28:25,400 Speaker 1: But Halo and one but and you couldn't get two 529 00:28:25,520 --> 00:28:27,919 Speaker 1: more different games and Halo and then Sevy, I mean, 530 00:28:28,080 --> 00:28:31,560 Speaker 1: just which was why that that last day at Letham 531 00:28:31,640 --> 00:28:33,919 Speaker 1: was so great, you know, and just tearing his hair 532 00:28:33,960 --> 00:28:36,600 Speaker 1: out of this guy hitting one fail away and beating him. 533 00:28:37,560 --> 00:28:40,040 Speaker 1: Um he Savy came back every year for five years 534 00:28:40,080 --> 00:28:42,680 Speaker 1: and he won there and one I think. But he 535 00:28:42,800 --> 00:28:45,800 Speaker 1: just played that course beautifully. It's great. It was amazing 536 00:28:45,840 --> 00:28:49,600 Speaker 1: to watch him play there. As you surely know you know. 537 00:28:49,680 --> 00:28:52,400 Speaker 1: Link Soul is a clothing and a lifestyle brand. I've 538 00:28:52,440 --> 00:28:54,800 Speaker 1: been wearing it for at least a decade. It's cool stuff. 539 00:28:54,880 --> 00:28:56,840 Speaker 1: It's super comfy and one of the Firepit loves it. 540 00:28:57,040 --> 00:29:00,160 Speaker 1: We're believers. If you go to Links all that m 541 00:29:00,200 --> 00:29:02,480 Speaker 1: and use the promo code fire Pit twenty five, you 542 00:29:02,480 --> 00:29:06,160 Speaker 1: will get off your purchase. You're welcome, and we're also 543 00:29:06,200 --> 00:29:10,400 Speaker 1: giving away a two links old gift card per episode. 544 00:29:11,080 --> 00:29:14,400 Speaker 1: So go to the fire Pit YouTube channel and leave 545 00:29:14,440 --> 00:29:16,200 Speaker 1: a comment from this episode and say how much you 546 00:29:16,240 --> 00:29:18,640 Speaker 1: loved it, because surely you're loving it. You're a golf fan. 547 00:29:18,680 --> 00:29:21,840 Speaker 1: You have to be loving this. And the winners will 548 00:29:21,840 --> 00:29:25,200 Speaker 1: be notified and promoted on our Instagram and our Twitter feeds. 549 00:29:25,280 --> 00:29:27,960 Speaker 1: So get involved. We're trying to have some fun. We 550 00:29:28,000 --> 00:29:29,360 Speaker 1: also have to pay the bills here at the fire 551 00:29:29,400 --> 00:29:33,920 Speaker 1: Pit Collective. So back to Night a Fourth like what 552 00:29:34,040 --> 00:29:38,440 Speaker 1: We're what We're Norman and Sevy like together and have 553 00:29:38,600 --> 00:29:40,680 Speaker 1: I played or have I just this paiper and I 554 00:29:40,760 --> 00:29:44,680 Speaker 1: got along and you know, each represented a nation. Yeah, 555 00:29:44,760 --> 00:29:48,120 Speaker 1: I think I got on pretty well. I think, you know, 556 00:29:48,240 --> 00:29:50,160 Speaker 1: Sevy helped Greg with his short gime when he first 557 00:29:50,200 --> 00:29:52,160 Speaker 1: went to Europe, and that was think I had a 558 00:29:52,200 --> 00:29:55,200 Speaker 1: lot of respect for each other's games. Sevy was much 559 00:29:55,240 --> 00:29:59,440 Speaker 1: more interesting. Greg was obviously you know, I guess you's 560 00:29:59,520 --> 00:30:03,920 Speaker 1: had better either, but Sevy was probably better with the rest. 561 00:30:04,000 --> 00:30:07,640 Speaker 1: But um, yeah, they were the number one guys in 562 00:30:07,680 --> 00:30:10,960 Speaker 1: their respective continents, really, and they carried the tour for 563 00:30:12,880 --> 00:30:16,080 Speaker 1: you know, for a long time and made it really. 564 00:30:16,160 --> 00:30:17,920 Speaker 1: I mean, they were the ones who dragged the people 565 00:30:17,920 --> 00:30:21,560 Speaker 1: out to watch. But Sevy, there was much more joy 566 00:30:21,680 --> 00:30:25,120 Speaker 1: about the way Sevy played, especially I was gonna say 567 00:30:25,200 --> 00:30:27,080 Speaker 1: later on, I mean, there wasn't much joy in watching 568 00:30:27,120 --> 00:30:30,400 Speaker 1: Sevy play the way he did when you were in Europe, Jeff. 569 00:30:30,480 --> 00:30:33,280 Speaker 1: But Sevy played the game with much more joy than Greg. 570 00:30:33,440 --> 00:30:36,720 Speaker 1: I think Greg always didn't look like he certainly the 571 00:30:36,840 --> 00:30:39,479 Speaker 1: last eight or ten years he played in Australia. Seriously, 572 00:30:39,480 --> 00:30:41,280 Speaker 1: he never looked like he loved playing here. He looked 573 00:30:41,320 --> 00:30:45,320 Speaker 1: like he was always here under sufferance. But Sevy never 574 00:30:45,400 --> 00:30:47,360 Speaker 1: looked like that. You know, he never lost his love 575 00:30:47,440 --> 00:30:49,600 Speaker 1: for the game, even after the game fell out of 576 00:30:49,640 --> 00:30:54,560 Speaker 1: love with him. Really, but you know, if you I 577 00:30:54,640 --> 00:30:58,320 Speaker 1: think it always an interesting question would be if Sevy 578 00:30:58,440 --> 00:31:00,040 Speaker 1: was on the first team, Greg was on the and 579 00:31:00,120 --> 00:31:04,680 Speaker 1: see who would you go and watch and um, you 580 00:31:04,760 --> 00:31:11,600 Speaker 1: know yeah Sevy and um, the same question with Tiger, 581 00:31:11,720 --> 00:31:14,800 Speaker 1: And I think it's I've watched, I've seen I mean, 582 00:31:14,840 --> 00:31:16,280 Speaker 1: you guys have seen him playing more than I have. 583 00:31:16,440 --> 00:31:20,360 Speaker 1: But I watched Tiger play the last round at Best 584 00:31:20,400 --> 00:31:23,080 Speaker 1: Page and in two thousand and two, the last two 585 00:31:23,160 --> 00:31:27,480 Speaker 1: days of Hoylake and the President's Cup match against a 586 00:31:27,600 --> 00:31:31,920 Speaker 1: Bans and it was like unforgettable golf. Really, Yeah, that's 587 00:31:31,960 --> 00:31:34,400 Speaker 1: peak Tiger. Yeah yeah, if you had a well it 588 00:31:34,480 --> 00:31:36,160 Speaker 1: was peak Tiger was two thousand and two to two 589 00:31:36,160 --> 00:31:38,680 Speaker 1: thousand and nineteen, so I mean he was still that 590 00:31:38,800 --> 00:31:41,520 Speaker 1: he was the best player at Ron Melburne. Yeah, no, 591 00:31:41,720 --> 00:31:46,840 Speaker 1: that was moment he that was that was a magical week. Yeah, 592 00:31:47,720 --> 00:31:50,720 Speaker 1: you know to watch you know, yeah, I think you 593 00:31:50,800 --> 00:31:55,240 Speaker 1: watched Sevy play nine and Tiger play nine, right, but um, yeah, 594 00:31:55,320 --> 00:31:57,440 Speaker 1: that they were the two most compelling players to watch. 595 00:31:57,480 --> 00:31:59,880 Speaker 1: The Sevy was much more charismatic than Tiger. I think 596 00:32:00,040 --> 00:32:06,160 Speaker 1: it um both incredible players to watch, all right to 597 00:32:06,320 --> 00:32:15,600 Speaker 1: modern times. Then talk modern was actually so Allen and 598 00:32:15,800 --> 00:32:19,240 Speaker 1: Clate's UM Today's Golfer put out a most Influential Golf 599 00:32:19,360 --> 00:32:24,520 Speaker 1: list plates are seventy nine. Chipnunk is more. You are 600 00:32:24,560 --> 00:32:27,520 Speaker 1: more influential than Mike Clayton golf and you're actually both 601 00:32:28,040 --> 00:32:32,320 Speaker 1: Donald Trump's eighties six, so you're beating him. That's hilarious. 602 00:32:32,400 --> 00:32:35,680 Speaker 1: Well that's I mean, that's poppy cocks as something might say. 603 00:32:35,840 --> 00:32:39,080 Speaker 1: I mean, and I didn't make the list, So you 604 00:32:39,160 --> 00:32:44,440 Speaker 1: guys are clearly more influential than us. I clicked, you know, 605 00:32:44,520 --> 00:32:46,240 Speaker 1: I clicked on that thing thing. This is gonna be 606 00:32:46,240 --> 00:32:49,200 Speaker 1: another ridiculous list, not so, I was another word proves 607 00:32:49,240 --> 00:32:55,840 Speaker 1: it's completely ridiculous. In factly, when ship Nunk Clayton UM, 608 00:32:56,240 --> 00:33:00,360 Speaker 1: I think the next two would um, Jordan's speaking came Smith. 609 00:33:00,480 --> 00:33:03,760 Speaker 1: So it was what it was. It was ridiculously it was. 610 00:33:04,480 --> 00:33:08,480 Speaker 1: But I think your your influences being underrated because you've 611 00:33:08,720 --> 00:33:11,240 Speaker 1: been a great oracle and talking about the modern game, 612 00:33:11,480 --> 00:33:15,000 Speaker 1: you've uh your your your design work. I think is 613 00:33:15,800 --> 00:33:18,200 Speaker 1: you know, you've been in at the forefront of kind 614 00:33:18,240 --> 00:33:24,080 Speaker 1: of this more minimalists approach to the modern architecture like 615 00:33:24,480 --> 00:33:26,440 Speaker 1: I would say you were. You should have been ranked higher, Mike, 616 00:33:26,480 --> 00:33:29,560 Speaker 1: because you've you've become an important voice in the whole sports. 617 00:33:29,640 --> 00:33:33,080 Speaker 1: So don't don't, don't, don't be too self deprecating. But 618 00:33:33,680 --> 00:33:37,760 Speaker 1: I think you connect the generations like you probably you 619 00:33:37,920 --> 00:33:40,280 Speaker 1: connect the old generation to the new generation because you 620 00:33:40,360 --> 00:33:44,240 Speaker 1: never stopped playing and watching and reading and writing. And 621 00:33:45,160 --> 00:33:47,000 Speaker 1: it's probably true. Yeah, there's other people who are just 622 00:33:47,040 --> 00:33:49,080 Speaker 1: so romantic about the seventies and eighties like you were 623 00:33:49,120 --> 00:33:52,520 Speaker 1: just talking about. But you've never been not passionate about 624 00:33:52,520 --> 00:33:54,680 Speaker 1: the whole thing. So you've seen the whole thing change, 625 00:33:54,720 --> 00:33:57,680 Speaker 1: and you can explain to these kids today what golf 626 00:33:57,760 --> 00:34:00,560 Speaker 1: used to be like and connect it really well. You 627 00:34:00,640 --> 00:34:04,720 Speaker 1: watched how much it changed. You know, it's changed. Um, 628 00:34:06,480 --> 00:34:08,600 Speaker 1: it's changed a lot. You know. It's the biggest question 629 00:34:08,680 --> 00:34:12,000 Speaker 1: that we're talking about the game. The game is fine, 630 00:34:12,040 --> 00:34:14,399 Speaker 1: and we talk about golf. We talked about this live 631 00:34:14,480 --> 00:34:16,640 Speaker 1: thing as if it's golf and it's only professional golfer 632 00:34:16,719 --> 00:34:19,520 Speaker 1: is not golf at all. It's just it's not it's 633 00:34:19,560 --> 00:34:23,680 Speaker 1: not even that important really, And how farther ball goes 634 00:34:23,800 --> 00:34:27,560 Speaker 1: is not really that important for everyone except you know, 635 00:34:27,680 --> 00:34:29,200 Speaker 1: the best the best players in the world. But it's 636 00:34:29,239 --> 00:34:33,600 Speaker 1: important because you know, those courses were designed to test 637 00:34:33,640 --> 00:34:35,600 Speaker 1: the best players in the more and they don't do 638 00:34:35,800 --> 00:34:37,440 Speaker 1: that in a way that they are intended to do. 639 00:34:37,560 --> 00:34:40,080 Speaker 1: It would be my argument. But so, you know, so 640 00:34:40,480 --> 00:34:43,480 Speaker 1: that's a big question that lives things interesting. You know, 641 00:34:44,000 --> 00:34:49,360 Speaker 1: um gol sid it's interesting as as an outsider to 642 00:34:49,440 --> 00:34:51,640 Speaker 1: watch it all play out. Really certainly the live thing 643 00:34:51,760 --> 00:34:56,080 Speaker 1: is well, I think we're all interested observers, really interesting 644 00:34:56,080 --> 00:34:57,719 Speaker 1: to see, you know what, what's really going to happen 645 00:34:57,719 --> 00:34:59,399 Speaker 1: with this? It's a game of politics and the game 646 00:34:59,440 --> 00:35:02,520 Speaker 1: of bluff. Who's going to win? Is anyone going to win? 647 00:35:02,640 --> 00:35:05,520 Speaker 1: Is everyone's gonna lose? You know? He is Pelly going 648 00:35:05,600 --> 00:35:08,480 Speaker 1: to lose the court case? In a when's the court case? Jeff? 649 00:35:08,520 --> 00:35:11,560 Speaker 1: A couple of weeks. These guys know better than me. 650 00:35:11,680 --> 00:35:15,880 Speaker 1: It didn't. It's always been February. I never got an 651 00:35:15,920 --> 00:35:21,960 Speaker 1: exact but yeah, so are we assuming that John Hagen 652 00:35:22,239 --> 00:35:28,239 Speaker 1: argument that Keith Pelly's hoping he loses so that all 653 00:35:28,320 --> 00:35:31,239 Speaker 1: the live guys can play in Europe? I don't know. 654 00:35:31,360 --> 00:35:32,839 Speaker 1: It would have been an interesting it would have been 655 00:35:32,880 --> 00:35:35,600 Speaker 1: an interesting approach for europe to just stay on their 656 00:35:35,640 --> 00:35:40,360 Speaker 1: side the whole time. I don't know, Well, perhaps the 657 00:35:40,400 --> 00:35:43,239 Speaker 1: easy way after them is to pretend to be fight them, 658 00:35:43,280 --> 00:35:44,960 Speaker 1: but just hope they lose the case. And then it 659 00:35:45,040 --> 00:35:49,040 Speaker 1: means that Westwood Poulter and Dustin Johnson if he wants 660 00:35:49,040 --> 00:35:50,399 Speaker 1: to go and play the British pre Jack and don't 661 00:35:50,400 --> 00:35:54,480 Speaker 1: play the Bridigese PGA, you know, and so all the 662 00:35:54,520 --> 00:35:55,919 Speaker 1: live guys if they want, you can go and play 663 00:35:55,920 --> 00:35:58,319 Speaker 1: in Europe. So that's gonna be fascinating to see how 664 00:35:58,360 --> 00:36:01,320 Speaker 1: that plays out, because now the European Tour has this 665 00:36:01,480 --> 00:36:04,200 Speaker 1: you know, strategic alliance and the PG. The PG Tour 666 00:36:04,280 --> 00:36:07,799 Speaker 1: owns part of the European Tour, and you know they're 667 00:36:07,800 --> 00:36:10,360 Speaker 1: supposed to be allies and all of this, and so 668 00:36:10,680 --> 00:36:13,600 Speaker 1: it's I think you're right that that Pelly would love 669 00:36:13,640 --> 00:36:15,240 Speaker 1: to have all those guys back. I mean, it doesn't 670 00:36:15,280 --> 00:36:17,680 Speaker 1: help him to have a German Open without Martin Kahimer 671 00:36:17,719 --> 00:36:21,439 Speaker 1: and stuff like that. But um, at the same time 672 00:36:21,920 --> 00:36:24,080 Speaker 1: that you know, the PGA tour is helping to pay 673 00:36:24,120 --> 00:36:29,160 Speaker 1: their bills now, so it's it's complicated. Yeah, that's why 674 00:36:29,200 --> 00:36:31,520 Speaker 1: it's also interesting, really it's just fascinating to watch it. 675 00:36:31,600 --> 00:36:34,839 Speaker 1: So and they're coming down here playing Adelaide, which will 676 00:36:34,880 --> 00:36:39,600 Speaker 1: be I suspect the Australian version of the Live Golf 677 00:36:39,600 --> 00:36:42,160 Speaker 1: will be the biggest version of it because we're so 678 00:36:42,360 --> 00:36:47,000 Speaker 1: starved of watching the best players. We never see them, really, 679 00:36:47,400 --> 00:36:49,879 Speaker 1: never see them on mass like Live is gonna bring 680 00:36:50,040 --> 00:36:54,319 Speaker 1: so as much as I kind of, I mean, I'm 681 00:36:54,360 --> 00:36:56,440 Speaker 1: an equal opportunity heiter when it comes to the PGA 682 00:36:56,480 --> 00:36:59,279 Speaker 1: two and Live really because they're both in the having 683 00:36:59,360 --> 00:37:02,920 Speaker 1: done Australia favors. But um, I think it would be 684 00:37:02,920 --> 00:37:04,680 Speaker 1: a massive thing down here. I think the crowds are 685 00:37:04,680 --> 00:37:07,040 Speaker 1: going to be crazy, people from all over the country. 686 00:37:07,040 --> 00:37:09,400 Speaker 1: You are going to add like to watch because because 687 00:37:10,120 --> 00:37:13,279 Speaker 1: you take it for granted in America that you you 688 00:37:13,320 --> 00:37:14,640 Speaker 1: know the tour is going to come and you get 689 00:37:14,680 --> 00:37:16,359 Speaker 1: to watch Tiger Woods and you get to watch all 690 00:37:16,440 --> 00:37:18,239 Speaker 1: the best players in the world whenever you want. Really, 691 00:37:19,600 --> 00:37:22,680 Speaker 1: we just don't see them anymore. Again and again, talking 692 00:37:22,680 --> 00:37:27,600 Speaker 1: about the generational span, I remember, Jeff, when you know, 693 00:37:27,800 --> 00:37:30,319 Speaker 1: Nicholas and Palmer and Player came down here pretty much 694 00:37:30,360 --> 00:37:32,719 Speaker 1: every year because I had a deal with Loszenges. Part 695 00:37:32,760 --> 00:37:36,960 Speaker 1: of the deal of getting the royalties from all the 696 00:37:37,080 --> 00:37:39,440 Speaker 1: all the clubs that donelupst and just sold in Australia 697 00:37:39,440 --> 00:37:41,080 Speaker 1: with their names on it was they come and played here. 698 00:37:42,320 --> 00:37:44,000 Speaker 1: So I grew up in an era when you know, 699 00:37:44,040 --> 00:37:45,960 Speaker 1: it was normal to see the best players in the 700 00:37:46,000 --> 00:37:49,680 Speaker 1: world player every year, and we're don't do it anymore. 701 00:37:49,760 --> 00:37:52,879 Speaker 1: So you and Nicholas, I mean he always talked about 702 00:37:52,880 --> 00:37:55,600 Speaker 1: the Australian Open is really meaningful victories if you went 703 00:37:55,640 --> 00:37:58,000 Speaker 1: into five times, I mean there was a point of 704 00:37:58,040 --> 00:38:01,920 Speaker 1: pride and yeah, five sick player one of maybe seven off. 705 00:38:02,320 --> 00:38:05,239 Speaker 1: I mean Parma one of the think I only one 706 00:38:05,280 --> 00:38:08,279 Speaker 1: at once. He wanted a raw Queensland, but he played 707 00:38:08,280 --> 00:38:10,799 Speaker 1: it decent. Palmer didn't play as much as the others, 708 00:38:10,840 --> 00:38:14,600 Speaker 1: but he played you a lot. He's trying. Open trophies 709 00:38:14,640 --> 00:38:19,040 Speaker 1: are pretty impressive engraving on there. I think Gary seven, 710 00:38:19,200 --> 00:38:22,320 Speaker 1: Jack five, maybe your six five or six. Yeah, you know, 711 00:38:22,480 --> 00:38:24,719 Speaker 1: I mean Saracen's on it, and you know there are 712 00:38:24,719 --> 00:38:31,279 Speaker 1: a lot of great players on that trophy. That's a 713 00:38:31,280 --> 00:38:35,840 Speaker 1: pretty good trophy. That's a good trophy. Norman, Yeah, Norman 714 00:38:35,880 --> 00:38:40,359 Speaker 1: and Gregg one at six times, I think, yeah, yeah, 715 00:38:41,200 --> 00:38:42,760 Speaker 1: Like if you spend all your time in the US, 716 00:38:42,800 --> 00:38:45,360 Speaker 1: it's just it's quite everyone you bump into is like 717 00:38:45,880 --> 00:38:49,040 Speaker 1: pretty anti, you know. But every time you bump into 718 00:38:49,080 --> 00:38:50,759 Speaker 1: someone outside of the US, they're a little bit more 719 00:38:51,000 --> 00:38:53,120 Speaker 1: neutral about the whole thing because of that issue. Because 720 00:38:53,160 --> 00:38:57,279 Speaker 1: every every two is lost the best players in the 721 00:38:57,320 --> 00:39:00,680 Speaker 1: world coming over the last thirty. People just want to 722 00:39:00,680 --> 00:39:02,239 Speaker 1: see the best players player. They don't really care what 723 00:39:02,360 --> 00:39:04,200 Speaker 1: vehicle they come under. They just want to see him play, 724 00:39:04,360 --> 00:39:08,160 Speaker 1: you know. So it's interesting the perspective difference outside of 725 00:39:08,160 --> 00:39:09,960 Speaker 1: the US and in Soude the US, it's quite different. 726 00:39:10,840 --> 00:39:12,640 Speaker 1: I was at the Dunhill this year. We obviously I'll 727 00:39:12,680 --> 00:39:15,759 Speaker 1: watched you play there on Saturday, but I drove up 728 00:39:15,760 --> 00:39:18,040 Speaker 1: from London on I left London at three o'clock on 729 00:39:19,560 --> 00:39:23,200 Speaker 1: Thursday morning and Hug he said, made me behind the 730 00:39:23,280 --> 00:39:27,719 Speaker 1: sixth tea at Krust. So he walked out, I'll five 731 00:39:27,760 --> 00:39:30,800 Speaker 1: away to the six tier one one thirty or whatever was. 732 00:39:31,160 --> 00:39:34,319 Speaker 1: Roy mccra was waiting on the tea for the group 733 00:39:34,360 --> 00:39:37,279 Speaker 1: I had to get out of the road match. Fitz 734 00:39:37,360 --> 00:39:41,360 Speaker 1: Patrick Shane Larry was behind him. We're also waiting on 735 00:39:41,440 --> 00:39:44,000 Speaker 1: the tea and Matt Fitzpatrick was the group by on him. 736 00:39:44,040 --> 00:39:46,040 Speaker 1: He walked off the fifth grade. And so the three 737 00:39:46,080 --> 00:39:48,200 Speaker 1: of them, three groups around the six tea, And Huggy's 738 00:39:48,239 --> 00:39:52,600 Speaker 1: bitching about this tourment, This bloody tournament takes forever, slow play, 739 00:39:52,719 --> 00:39:54,920 Speaker 1: playing with hackers. It's a pay in the art this tourment, 740 00:39:55,560 --> 00:39:59,200 Speaker 1: said Huggy, we're watching Roy McElroy play golf. How much 741 00:39:59,239 --> 00:40:02,440 Speaker 1: people in Australia give to watch Roy mcarroy play golf? 742 00:40:03,160 --> 00:40:05,800 Speaker 1: He said, yeah, you're right, stop your whinging. You know, 743 00:40:05,840 --> 00:40:08,560 Speaker 1: it was it was just it was just we just 744 00:40:08,640 --> 00:40:12,440 Speaker 1: don't see those guys. So it was he's how you 745 00:40:12,520 --> 00:40:14,359 Speaker 1: bitching about having to wait for ten minutes to watch 746 00:40:14,440 --> 00:40:17,040 Speaker 1: Roy mcaway two off the sixth kinds I want one 747 00:40:17,080 --> 00:40:20,320 Speaker 1: of the best part fives in golf, downhill, cool tournament, 748 00:40:21,120 --> 00:40:23,399 Speaker 1: roy mcaway playing golf. But of course how you see 749 00:40:23,520 --> 00:40:24,759 Speaker 1: him play all the time, so he just takes it 750 00:40:24,840 --> 00:40:28,360 Speaker 1: for granted. But you know, not to be taken for 751 00:40:28,400 --> 00:40:32,160 Speaker 1: granted watching Roy mcaway play golf. Ever, do you have 752 00:40:32,280 --> 00:40:36,640 Speaker 1: a sense of Greg Norman talks about his desire to 753 00:40:36,840 --> 00:40:40,360 Speaker 1: grow golf globally through this Live to Do. Do you 754 00:40:40,440 --> 00:40:45,000 Speaker 1: have a sense that is a truthful stement or not? 755 00:40:45,120 --> 00:40:47,480 Speaker 1: I don't know how quite know how to word what 756 00:40:47,680 --> 00:40:51,680 Speaker 1: is his goal? Um, I think Greg's goals to make 757 00:40:51,719 --> 00:40:55,480 Speaker 1: money for Greg. Probably I might be wrong, but you know, um, 758 00:40:58,400 --> 00:41:02,759 Speaker 1: you know, I thought you can't. You know, it would 759 00:41:02,800 --> 00:41:04,960 Speaker 1: be silly to expect a bunch of twenty five year 760 00:41:04,960 --> 00:41:06,400 Speaker 1: olds to think of this at the time. But if 761 00:41:06,440 --> 00:41:12,000 Speaker 1: in or eighty one, the early eighties, Savvy and Greg 762 00:41:12,080 --> 00:41:15,680 Speaker 1: and Nick Price and you know, all those guys Fellow 763 00:41:16,160 --> 00:41:20,200 Speaker 1: playing in Europe had gotten together and said, let's create 764 00:41:20,280 --> 00:41:23,800 Speaker 1: a great tour outside of the United States, so we 765 00:41:23,880 --> 00:41:27,440 Speaker 1: can I hate the phrase, grow the game in our 766 00:41:27,440 --> 00:41:31,400 Speaker 1: own country. So when let's all go play the Australia, 767 00:41:31,520 --> 00:41:33,239 Speaker 1: let's all go play the suffic and Open. Let's create 768 00:41:33,280 --> 00:41:35,520 Speaker 1: a great tour in Europe. Let's go and play the 769 00:41:35,640 --> 00:41:39,040 Speaker 1: Japan Open. Let's create a viable, a great and viable 770 00:41:39,120 --> 00:41:41,880 Speaker 1: to outside of the United States. Then they could have 771 00:41:41,960 --> 00:41:44,080 Speaker 1: done that. There are enough That was the only yera 772 00:41:44,640 --> 00:41:48,960 Speaker 1: where there are enough superstars to create that. But you 773 00:41:49,080 --> 00:41:53,920 Speaker 1: can't expect twenty five year olds Savrianno Balastos and Nick 774 00:41:53,960 --> 00:41:56,520 Speaker 1: Fellow and Great to even think of that idea, let 775 00:41:56,600 --> 00:42:00,920 Speaker 1: alone create it. So that that would have been and 776 00:42:01,000 --> 00:42:06,279 Speaker 1: if that tour had growing and captured mcaroy in Westwood, 777 00:42:06,520 --> 00:42:11,000 Speaker 1: Poulter and Adam Scott and Ogilvy and all of the 778 00:42:11,120 --> 00:42:14,239 Speaker 1: best non American players early else, it would be the 779 00:42:14,280 --> 00:42:17,279 Speaker 1: best too in the world. Now would be incredible because 780 00:42:17,320 --> 00:42:19,160 Speaker 1: it would be miles more interesting and you would you 781 00:42:19,400 --> 00:42:21,120 Speaker 1: would go to the best courses and they would be 782 00:42:21,200 --> 00:42:23,919 Speaker 1: playing for phenomenal and has some money, and that would 783 00:42:23,920 --> 00:42:27,040 Speaker 1: have been a great way to expand the professional game 784 00:42:27,080 --> 00:42:30,160 Speaker 1: around the world. You could have organized Asia and my 785 00:42:30,280 --> 00:42:33,759 Speaker 1: golfing Asia better, which has always been wildly disorganized. So 786 00:42:33,880 --> 00:42:35,560 Speaker 1: that seems like live they're going to throw some money 787 00:42:35,600 --> 00:42:37,359 Speaker 1: out and make it much better than it's always been. 788 00:42:38,640 --> 00:42:41,239 Speaker 1: But that that was the chance to really create a 789 00:42:41,280 --> 00:42:44,120 Speaker 1: great world to it. But a forty eight man exhibition 790 00:42:44,280 --> 00:42:48,759 Speaker 1: kind of exhibition slash torment playing fourteen times a year, 791 00:42:49,680 --> 00:42:51,800 Speaker 1: mostly in America still hawen. How many weeks are in 792 00:42:51,880 --> 00:42:57,560 Speaker 1: America now? Eight? Half of them yeah for live, Yeah, 793 00:42:57,719 --> 00:43:00,520 Speaker 1: half of them in you understand more than half. They 794 00:43:00,560 --> 00:43:02,400 Speaker 1: have an announcer schedule for this year. I think it's 795 00:43:02,440 --> 00:43:04,600 Speaker 1: going to be eight or nine out of fourteen. Yeah, 796 00:43:04,719 --> 00:43:09,680 Speaker 1: So that's kind of yea. If Greg was organizing that 797 00:43:10,840 --> 00:43:15,200 Speaker 1: creating a hundred and forty man world tour and trying 798 00:43:15,239 --> 00:43:17,279 Speaker 1: to get all of the best non American players to 799 00:43:17,360 --> 00:43:20,160 Speaker 1: play thirty five weeks around the world. Not that they 800 00:43:20,200 --> 00:43:23,640 Speaker 1: have to play. Everyone has to play thirty five plays 801 00:43:23,640 --> 00:43:27,440 Speaker 1: me as they want. But that would be something truly 802 00:43:27,520 --> 00:43:31,720 Speaker 1: that would grow the game internationally. But now the PGA 803 00:43:31,760 --> 00:43:34,160 Speaker 1: two is such a dominant tour that all the focuses 804 00:43:34,200 --> 00:43:37,800 Speaker 1: in America, and so it's, um, it's a pity for 805 00:43:37,880 --> 00:43:40,239 Speaker 1: someone who played in Europe and lovesly European tour of it. 806 00:43:41,080 --> 00:43:43,879 Speaker 1: Hopefully it still remains a relevant, strong and relevant too, 807 00:43:43,960 --> 00:43:46,960 Speaker 1: but I mean arguably, I mean, we saw how many 808 00:43:46,960 --> 00:43:49,600 Speaker 1: Australian kids went to play the tour school in Asia 809 00:43:49,680 --> 00:43:53,239 Speaker 1: this year. Asia might become a pretty significant tour to 810 00:43:53,400 --> 00:43:57,080 Speaker 1: live money flows into that and they started expanding that 811 00:43:57,760 --> 00:44:02,840 Speaker 1: because that's always been a pretty poorly administered professional gaming 812 00:44:02,920 --> 00:44:04,840 Speaker 1: I mean, we paid that tour for used to go 813 00:44:04,960 --> 00:44:08,719 Speaker 1: for ten weeks in I paint Stewart played My first 814 00:44:08,800 --> 00:44:11,239 Speaker 1: year in Asia was the first year he didn't play. 815 00:44:11,280 --> 00:44:13,880 Speaker 1: He played there for three or four years, and you know, 816 00:44:14,200 --> 00:44:16,200 Speaker 1: Bob Tway was up there, you know, but a bunch 817 00:44:16,239 --> 00:44:20,160 Speaker 1: of young Americans who were trying to Jeff Sluman, just 818 00:44:20,520 --> 00:44:22,400 Speaker 1: waiting to find their way unto the PGR two. And 819 00:44:23,080 --> 00:44:24,800 Speaker 1: part of that was to go and play in Asia 820 00:44:24,840 --> 00:44:27,680 Speaker 1: in February and March and April Joey Sinde Lauren. You 821 00:44:27,719 --> 00:44:28,840 Speaker 1: know there are a bunch of guys went up there 822 00:44:28,880 --> 00:44:32,960 Speaker 1: and played good players. So you know, the rest of 823 00:44:33,000 --> 00:44:35,040 Speaker 1: the world needs to get us act together. But I'm 824 00:44:35,080 --> 00:44:36,440 Speaker 1: not sure that Lives is the way to do that. 825 00:44:36,800 --> 00:44:38,080 Speaker 1: You know, it needs to be bigger than that, and 826 00:44:38,160 --> 00:44:40,360 Speaker 1: more players than that, and more countries than that, and 827 00:44:41,440 --> 00:44:45,279 Speaker 1: you know, so it's interesting, as I said, you know, 828 00:44:45,360 --> 00:44:47,880 Speaker 1: it's it's fascinating as someone who doesn't play anymore and 829 00:44:47,960 --> 00:44:50,080 Speaker 1: doesn't I kind of care what happens, but it's not 830 00:44:50,160 --> 00:44:52,400 Speaker 1: affecting me. Affects the kids that you know, kids I 831 00:44:52,840 --> 00:44:56,239 Speaker 1: care about, and you know, whether they make a living 832 00:44:56,239 --> 00:44:59,759 Speaker 1: out of playing professional golf. But the rest of all, 833 00:45:00,000 --> 00:45:02,160 Speaker 1: they used to get up guys act together and stop 834 00:45:02,440 --> 00:45:04,960 Speaker 1: putting on a cow one night a show and trying 835 00:45:05,000 --> 00:45:09,560 Speaker 1: to win back the the flat of plastic. Go to 836 00:45:09,600 --> 00:45:11,400 Speaker 1: the page I too, because obviously that's why you're gonna go, 837 00:45:11,440 --> 00:45:12,960 Speaker 1: because that's where the best plast and that's where the 838 00:45:12,960 --> 00:45:15,840 Speaker 1: money is, But what does it look like in a 839 00:45:15,960 --> 00:45:18,839 Speaker 1: hundred years or fifty year? Is the the professional guy? 840 00:45:19,200 --> 00:45:21,880 Speaker 1: You know, do you set about the professional game with 841 00:45:21,960 --> 00:45:23,840 Speaker 1: a fifty year vision of where it's kind to be 842 00:45:23,960 --> 00:45:27,480 Speaker 1: outside of the US or is it just dominated by America? 843 00:45:28,000 --> 00:45:33,080 Speaker 1: Who knows? I'm even five years this live experiment. Uh, 844 00:45:33,800 --> 00:45:35,919 Speaker 1: it's has a shorter time horizon. And what's it gonna 845 00:45:35,960 --> 00:45:38,840 Speaker 1: look like in two years? It's it's such a big question. 846 00:45:38,960 --> 00:45:41,840 Speaker 1: I mean, they're trying to piece it all together right now. 847 00:45:41,880 --> 00:45:43,919 Speaker 1: They have an announcer schedule, they have announced the TV 848 00:45:44,440 --> 00:45:47,800 Speaker 1: deal or hemorrhaging top executives. They haven't signed any players. 849 00:45:48,000 --> 00:45:52,200 Speaker 1: Like it's fair to wonder, like, where where is it 850 00:45:52,280 --> 00:45:53,759 Speaker 1: going to go? And even in the short term, let 851 00:45:53,800 --> 00:45:56,600 Speaker 1: alone the long term, and then does it exist in 852 00:45:56,680 --> 00:45:58,960 Speaker 1: five years? Do do we think that just the sat 853 00:45:59,080 --> 00:46:01,040 Speaker 1: is just got This is all too hard? I mean, 854 00:46:01,800 --> 00:46:04,439 Speaker 1: Paul Paul McNamee is a friend of mine. In fact, 855 00:46:04,719 --> 00:46:06,759 Speaker 1: you know, we're watching the tennis at Yong the other 856 00:46:06,840 --> 00:46:09,359 Speaker 1: day and he said, you know, the Saudi has brought 857 00:46:09,400 --> 00:46:12,000 Speaker 1: the wrong sport. Because he's a big critic of the 858 00:46:12,040 --> 00:46:14,360 Speaker 1: way tennis is organized. He says it's just a tennis 859 00:46:14,440 --> 00:46:17,719 Speaker 1: is incredibly badly organized. I mean, the tennis wishes it 860 00:46:17,840 --> 00:46:20,480 Speaker 1: was golf with all the money in golf. And he's 861 00:46:20,520 --> 00:46:22,440 Speaker 1: a massive critic of the way the tennis too was 862 00:46:22,560 --> 00:46:25,520 Speaker 1: organized and how poorly the players have played. Obviously not 863 00:46:25,640 --> 00:46:28,239 Speaker 1: at the top end, but you know, he said, if 864 00:46:28,239 --> 00:46:29,320 Speaker 1: you're not in the top hunder in the world and 865 00:46:29,360 --> 00:46:30,919 Speaker 1: playing in the ground, Sam, you're not making a living 866 00:46:30,960 --> 00:46:37,880 Speaker 1: playing tennis. So, um, well, I've heard some rumblings that 867 00:46:38,120 --> 00:46:42,160 Speaker 1: that there's there's there's a breakaway tennis league that's that's 868 00:46:42,200 --> 00:46:44,719 Speaker 1: trying to get in with the public investment funds, so 869 00:46:46,040 --> 00:46:49,960 Speaker 1: they may yet, you know, reshape the tennis game as well. 870 00:46:50,520 --> 00:46:53,600 Speaker 1: Paul's view was that all forty eight of the top 871 00:46:53,719 --> 00:46:56,600 Speaker 1: forty A players were well not forty because forty probably 872 00:46:56,600 --> 00:46:58,720 Speaker 1: doesn't work with a probably sixty four with the sixty 873 00:46:58,760 --> 00:47:04,759 Speaker 1: four draw, But um he said that all sign everyone. Yeah, 874 00:47:05,600 --> 00:47:08,800 Speaker 1: the same is the LPGA really you know, you know, 875 00:47:08,960 --> 00:47:12,719 Speaker 1: if if Lives it up to destroy the LPGA two, 876 00:47:12,800 --> 00:47:15,759 Speaker 1: they would just sign the top fortypg A players and 877 00:47:15,760 --> 00:47:18,680 Speaker 1: they would all go. I assume I think lives vision 878 00:47:18,840 --> 00:47:22,040 Speaker 1: is to partner with the LPGA and and just play 879 00:47:22,080 --> 00:47:25,120 Speaker 1: on weeks that don't compete with the LPGA, and it 880 00:47:25,160 --> 00:47:27,440 Speaker 1: would be an additive. So keep the LPG schedule and 881 00:47:27,440 --> 00:47:30,040 Speaker 1: then come play eight live events and everyone makes money 882 00:47:30,120 --> 00:47:32,440 Speaker 1: and everyone's excited to be there, and you know that 883 00:47:33,080 --> 00:47:35,840 Speaker 1: that's obviously more productive if you could partner and not compete, 884 00:47:36,280 --> 00:47:38,120 Speaker 1: or to be fair, I think they wanted to partner 885 00:47:38,200 --> 00:47:40,640 Speaker 1: with the PGA tourists just they don't have any room too. 886 00:47:40,840 --> 00:47:42,840 Speaker 1: There's just no dates in the year, you know, Like 887 00:47:43,040 --> 00:47:46,520 Speaker 1: so I don't think they wanted to be come in 888 00:47:46,640 --> 00:47:50,879 Speaker 1: and bully, but they kind of had to. You know. Yeah, 889 00:47:50,920 --> 00:47:53,360 Speaker 1: it's interesting because I mean this could be whole of 890 00:47:53,360 --> 00:47:55,520 Speaker 1: their podcast. But you know, when Andy Gardner hatch the 891 00:47:55,760 --> 00:47:57,680 Speaker 1: Premier Golf League, I mean that goes back to two 892 00:47:57,719 --> 00:48:00,840 Speaker 1: thousand and eighteen, and he was he always thought that 893 00:48:01,000 --> 00:48:03,719 Speaker 1: they could coexist and he was trying to forge dialogue 894 00:48:03,840 --> 00:48:06,560 Speaker 1: and ultimately kind of this last ditch effort, he tried 895 00:48:06,600 --> 00:48:09,760 Speaker 1: to give a make make all the tour players equity 896 00:48:09,840 --> 00:48:13,160 Speaker 1: partners in the Premier Golf League and um, but the 897 00:48:13,280 --> 00:48:15,160 Speaker 1: Saudi's at that point, we're already on the scene and 898 00:48:15,160 --> 00:48:18,239 Speaker 1: they had they had more money and and they weren't 899 00:48:18,239 --> 00:48:20,319 Speaker 1: as interested in partnering Jeff. I mean I think they 900 00:48:20,680 --> 00:48:24,120 Speaker 1: saw like, we we can just do this and um 901 00:48:24,719 --> 00:48:28,480 Speaker 1: with it without the PGA tour. But I mean, I'm 902 00:48:28,520 --> 00:48:30,520 Speaker 1: retracing all this in a book and it's a fascinating 903 00:48:30,600 --> 00:48:33,240 Speaker 1: chapter with the PGL and what could have been because 904 00:48:33,320 --> 00:48:35,840 Speaker 1: that that they really were serious golf people and they 905 00:48:35,920 --> 00:48:38,800 Speaker 1: had they had this grand vision. I've read their hundred 906 00:48:38,840 --> 00:48:41,600 Speaker 1: sixteen page perspectives that laid out all these different ways 907 00:48:41,680 --> 00:48:45,000 Speaker 1: to engage fans and to rethink the entire support and 908 00:48:45,000 --> 00:48:48,759 Speaker 1: it's really cleverly done. And um, but of course the 909 00:48:48,800 --> 00:48:50,880 Speaker 1: Saudi's came in. They hired a couple of of the 910 00:48:50,960 --> 00:48:53,520 Speaker 1: pgl's top guys and they just they just stole the 911 00:48:53,560 --> 00:48:55,919 Speaker 1: idea essentially, and but they did it their way, which 912 00:48:55,960 --> 00:48:58,120 Speaker 1: was with a lot less finesse and a lot more money. 913 00:48:58,160 --> 00:49:02,080 Speaker 1: And um, we could have been having a different conversation 914 00:49:02,160 --> 00:49:06,040 Speaker 1: where this this competitor which towards the tour needs. They've 915 00:49:06,040 --> 00:49:08,239 Speaker 1: always needed a competitor, right, but it could have been 916 00:49:08,239 --> 00:49:10,759 Speaker 1: a lot more elegant. But it's not the way I 917 00:49:10,840 --> 00:49:14,840 Speaker 1: played out. Have the PAGL gone away that I just 918 00:49:15,440 --> 00:49:17,680 Speaker 1: the no longer roup writing Andy Goddener, and I mean 919 00:49:18,040 --> 00:49:22,759 Speaker 1: where is he gone? Yeah, I mean I suspect they're 920 00:49:22,760 --> 00:49:29,920 Speaker 1: building a a um a nine figure lawsuit against the 921 00:49:30,000 --> 00:49:33,759 Speaker 1: Saudi golf folks because when you read this perspective, I 922 00:49:33,840 --> 00:49:36,680 Speaker 1: mean everything that's in there live just flat out took. 923 00:49:37,320 --> 00:49:40,840 Speaker 1: It's not even subtle, and they used every idea, every 924 00:49:40,920 --> 00:49:44,719 Speaker 1: idea and um and so yeah, I think you know 925 00:49:44,760 --> 00:49:46,880 Speaker 1: the fight's over. They're not. They're not gonna be a 926 00:49:46,960 --> 00:49:50,080 Speaker 1: third breakaway league. That's impossible. There's not enough stars to 927 00:49:50,120 --> 00:49:54,319 Speaker 1: support two circuits. So I think the idea is mostly dead. 928 00:49:54,400 --> 00:49:57,920 Speaker 1: But um, I don't think we've heard the last from 929 00:49:57,960 --> 00:50:01,480 Speaker 1: the PGL, just from a legal standpoint. So if the 930 00:50:01,560 --> 00:50:04,279 Speaker 1: Saudis decade that had enough and saw that we're gonna 931 00:50:04,320 --> 00:50:06,239 Speaker 1: box tennis instead of golf, and they went away with 932 00:50:06,320 --> 00:50:10,839 Speaker 1: the PAG replace them, they might try. They might try, 933 00:50:12,120 --> 00:50:14,279 Speaker 1: um because you know they had they had money from 934 00:50:15,360 --> 00:50:18,879 Speaker 1: UH investors and from institutional lenders, and you know it's 935 00:50:18,920 --> 00:50:22,680 Speaker 1: mostly European money, some Australian money didn't have the taint 936 00:50:22,760 --> 00:50:25,160 Speaker 1: of of the Saudias and all that. I mean, it 937 00:50:25,200 --> 00:50:29,560 Speaker 1: could have been an interesting product. That's that's we're getting. 938 00:50:29,600 --> 00:50:32,080 Speaker 1: We're getting yeah, we're getting in the weeds here, but 939 00:50:32,160 --> 00:50:34,920 Speaker 1: it is fascinating stuff. I mean, Mike, as as we 940 00:50:35,040 --> 00:50:37,120 Speaker 1: alluded to earlier, I mean, people come to you for 941 00:50:37,239 --> 00:50:39,440 Speaker 1: podcasts and to write articles about the state of the 942 00:50:39,520 --> 00:50:42,840 Speaker 1: game and and where it's all headed art. Uh. You know, 943 00:50:42,920 --> 00:50:44,480 Speaker 1: Michael and Jeff and I have talked about this a 944 00:50:44,560 --> 00:50:47,600 Speaker 1: great length with other guests. But are are are you concerned? 945 00:50:47,680 --> 00:50:49,719 Speaker 1: I mean when when you look at it all the 946 00:50:49,800 --> 00:50:55,680 Speaker 1: trends from participation to uh, golf course openings to the 947 00:50:55,719 --> 00:50:58,840 Speaker 1: professional game, Like if you put you on the spot here, like, 948 00:50:59,040 --> 00:51:03,680 Speaker 1: what is the state of game right now? It's pretty good, 949 00:51:03,760 --> 00:51:05,959 Speaker 1: isn't it. I mean, in terms of the little world 950 00:51:06,520 --> 00:51:08,680 Speaker 1: Jeff and I inhabit, the architecture ward, I think it's 951 00:51:08,840 --> 00:51:12,080 Speaker 1: it's in great shape. And I think the last thirty 952 00:51:12,160 --> 00:51:14,760 Speaker 1: years will we look back on in a hundred years Instead, 953 00:51:14,800 --> 00:51:18,160 Speaker 1: it's being incredibly productive. So I think, you know, in 954 00:51:18,320 --> 00:51:21,080 Speaker 1: terms of the golf course, that the golf courses we're playing, 955 00:51:21,120 --> 00:51:26,720 Speaker 1: that the game is much better. Um, you know, outside 956 00:51:26,760 --> 00:51:30,200 Speaker 1: of America it's really affordable. Club memberships are still cheap, 957 00:51:30,280 --> 00:51:34,080 Speaker 1: and clubs still do really well in Australia and and 958 00:51:34,560 --> 00:51:37,279 Speaker 1: from what I can tell and in England, so it's 959 00:51:37,440 --> 00:51:40,200 Speaker 1: you know, it's affordable, it's I mean Australia's look at American, 960 00:51:40,360 --> 00:51:42,719 Speaker 1: they're amazing how expensive the game is to play it 961 00:51:43,480 --> 00:51:47,200 Speaker 1: kind of country club level, how much it costs and 962 00:51:48,040 --> 00:51:50,960 Speaker 1: reversing that American. I played with a couple of Americans 963 00:51:51,160 --> 00:51:54,640 Speaker 1: last week Metropolitan, my home club, and we were talking 964 00:51:54,640 --> 00:51:56,680 Speaker 1: about what it costs to join Real Melbourne. It was 965 00:51:56,719 --> 00:51:59,960 Speaker 1: I don't know, it's what's fifteen or sixteen thousand Australian 966 00:52:00,040 --> 00:52:02,839 Speaker 1: dollars to join and then six thousand dollars a year 967 00:52:03,520 --> 00:52:06,120 Speaker 1: Australian dollars four thousand US. I think they can't get 968 00:52:06,160 --> 00:52:09,600 Speaker 1: their head around that. Remember, I agree with the greatest 969 00:52:09,600 --> 00:52:11,360 Speaker 1: silly sixth old place in the world, and it's just 970 00:52:11,880 --> 00:52:15,359 Speaker 1: giving it it away, so you know, it's cheaper to four. 971 00:52:16,280 --> 00:52:18,799 Speaker 1: COVID was the best, you know, for all the silly 972 00:52:18,840 --> 00:52:20,919 Speaker 1: growth of game initiatives and how much money got spent 973 00:52:21,040 --> 00:52:24,760 Speaker 1: on growing the game through all these wild ideas. COVID 974 00:52:25,400 --> 00:52:27,160 Speaker 1: did a better job than any of them in growing 975 00:52:27,200 --> 00:52:29,840 Speaker 1: the game because what else We're going to play golf? 976 00:52:31,160 --> 00:52:35,399 Speaker 1: So it's um. The courses are great. The professional game 977 00:52:35,440 --> 00:52:37,200 Speaker 1: has lots of money in the professional game, and people 978 00:52:37,200 --> 00:52:40,239 Speaker 1: are interested in it. I'm going a goal still going well. 979 00:52:40,280 --> 00:52:44,239 Speaker 1: Public golf has never been better, So it's um yeah, 980 00:52:44,320 --> 00:52:47,160 Speaker 1: I think the game is in great shape because ultimately 981 00:52:47,200 --> 00:52:49,359 Speaker 1: it's a great game. It's a cool game to play. 982 00:52:49,400 --> 00:52:54,120 Speaker 1: It's good fine. It's you play with the world, the 983 00:52:54,280 --> 00:52:57,719 Speaker 1: disparate group of people and who will tend to love 984 00:52:57,800 --> 00:53:00,360 Speaker 1: playing it not but most of them loved hang And 985 00:53:02,120 --> 00:53:04,640 Speaker 1: it's a great game to travel with. It's it's the best, 986 00:53:06,000 --> 00:53:08,799 Speaker 1: it's the best game to travel. Where you got all 987 00:53:08,840 --> 00:53:12,080 Speaker 1: these amazing places around the world you played tennis, I 988 00:53:12,120 --> 00:53:13,800 Speaker 1: mean towns courts, the towns court, unless you're on the 989 00:53:14,640 --> 00:53:16,759 Speaker 1: center court at Monte Carlo, which is a pretty cool 990 00:53:16,800 --> 00:53:18,480 Speaker 1: place for wimbled not or something. It towns courts, the 991 00:53:18,520 --> 00:53:22,080 Speaker 1: town's court. But there are so many amazing places to 992 00:53:22,120 --> 00:53:24,880 Speaker 1: play golf that that's the one great attraction of the 993 00:53:24,920 --> 00:53:27,840 Speaker 1: game is the places that we play it. And you 994 00:53:27,880 --> 00:53:30,759 Speaker 1: can go anywhere and find anyone on the first team 995 00:53:30,840 --> 00:53:32,840 Speaker 1: have a have a cool game because you kind of 996 00:53:32,920 --> 00:53:38,880 Speaker 1: bonded with this common affection for a crazy game. So 997 00:53:38,960 --> 00:53:41,680 Speaker 1: I think it's doing fine. You know, there's there's um, 998 00:53:43,280 --> 00:53:46,480 Speaker 1: you know, golf in newspapers are sort of dead. No 999 00:53:46,560 --> 00:53:51,319 Speaker 1: one buys newspapers to read golf anymore. But there's never 1000 00:53:51,440 --> 00:53:55,280 Speaker 1: been better or more great golf riding. To be access 1001 00:53:55,320 --> 00:53:57,040 Speaker 1: you just need to be on you know, I see 1002 00:53:57,040 --> 00:53:58,960 Speaker 1: these old guys that have gone. You know that that 1003 00:54:00,000 --> 00:54:02,800 Speaker 1: I meant the fact that there's no golf on you know, 1004 00:54:02,920 --> 00:54:05,520 Speaker 1: newspapers anymore, as if we kind of go back to 1005 00:54:05,560 --> 00:54:08,399 Speaker 1: the nineteen seventies. But you ask him if they're on Twitter. 1006 00:54:08,480 --> 00:54:10,640 Speaker 1: Of course they're not on Twitter because they barely heard 1007 00:54:10,680 --> 00:54:14,400 Speaker 1: of it. But you can read everyone on Twitter. I mean, 1008 00:54:14,880 --> 00:54:17,480 Speaker 1: there's more access to great golf rowing now than ever. 1009 00:54:17,640 --> 00:54:20,080 Speaker 1: Just get on Twitter and follow all the guys who 1010 00:54:20,600 --> 00:54:23,520 Speaker 1: put great golf content up there. So much golf from 1011 00:54:23,560 --> 00:54:29,200 Speaker 1: reading now, it's amazing. So it's some guy comes in 1012 00:54:29,239 --> 00:54:32,239 Speaker 1: great shape. Really, the only thing is the ball goes 1013 00:54:32,280 --> 00:54:34,120 Speaker 1: too far for the best players, so the courses don't 1014 00:54:34,120 --> 00:54:38,680 Speaker 1: play the way they shortened. So once the administration gets 1015 00:54:38,719 --> 00:54:40,640 Speaker 1: their heads around that, then the game will be even 1016 00:54:40,680 --> 00:54:44,319 Speaker 1: better off. Because I think it's you know, I kind 1017 00:54:44,360 --> 00:54:48,279 Speaker 1: of like the Year of Jeff when Bill Rodgers was 1018 00:54:48,360 --> 00:54:50,320 Speaker 1: hitting a three on under the last hole of Victoria 1019 00:54:50,400 --> 00:54:52,720 Speaker 1: to win the Australian Open. I mean Greg in Veness, 1020 00:54:52,880 --> 00:54:55,440 Speaker 1: Greg at the nine on that day, last sole of 1021 00:54:55,520 --> 00:54:59,520 Speaker 1: Victoria's and up and over the hill four and sixty 1022 00:54:59,680 --> 00:55:04,319 Speaker 1: four me to Paart five with a tea. That's ten 1023 00:55:04,400 --> 00:55:07,719 Speaker 1: yards further back than when Bill Rodgers played when he 1024 00:55:07,800 --> 00:55:11,000 Speaker 1: won the Open there. That was a really good hole 1025 00:55:11,040 --> 00:55:12,480 Speaker 1: when it was a driver three on. It's not very 1026 00:55:12,480 --> 00:55:15,239 Speaker 1: interesting when it's a driver nine on. So the game 1027 00:55:15,360 --> 00:55:18,680 Speaker 1: is more interesting when you know it asked more of 1028 00:55:18,760 --> 00:55:21,759 Speaker 1: the second shots. But once we get around that, the 1029 00:55:21,840 --> 00:55:23,880 Speaker 1: game will be will be perfect because it's such a 1030 00:55:23,920 --> 00:55:27,400 Speaker 1: great game. It's an amazing game, you know, and it's spawned, 1031 00:55:28,000 --> 00:55:31,000 Speaker 1: you know. I mean we were talking about Michael's book 1032 00:55:31,040 --> 00:55:34,160 Speaker 1: that Green wrote Home It's spawn some and so many others. 1033 00:55:35,360 --> 00:55:37,520 Speaker 1: You know, it's spawn so much great writing. It's a 1034 00:55:37,920 --> 00:55:40,239 Speaker 1: it's a great game to read about when people don't 1035 00:55:41,400 --> 00:55:44,920 Speaker 1: read enough golf, which I think we would all agree that. 1036 00:55:45,040 --> 00:55:48,200 Speaker 1: I think that there lots of people who play golf 1037 00:55:48,400 --> 00:55:52,760 Speaker 1: and they take out of the game what they personally 1038 00:55:52,840 --> 00:55:55,160 Speaker 1: want out of the game, and that which is fine, 1039 00:55:55,239 --> 00:55:58,359 Speaker 1: that's kind of its purpose. But they would never read 1040 00:55:58,400 --> 00:56:00,360 Speaker 1: a book about golf. That the thing to read a 1041 00:56:00,400 --> 00:56:03,319 Speaker 1: book about golf on this there are so many great 1042 00:56:03,360 --> 00:56:05,800 Speaker 1: golf books that are so much fun to fun to 1043 00:56:05,880 --> 00:56:08,319 Speaker 1: read about. I mean Tom Callahan's book. Is that great 1044 00:56:08,320 --> 00:56:12,160 Speaker 1: picture of you, Jeff reading Callahan's book on Arnie, which 1045 00:56:12,239 --> 00:56:14,520 Speaker 1: was an amazing book of such a brilliant book, I means, 1046 00:56:14,560 --> 00:56:18,359 Speaker 1: such a it's a fun right just read great Golf 1047 00:56:18,360 --> 00:56:21,440 Speaker 1: Friday about someone who was a compelling figure and you 1048 00:56:21,560 --> 00:56:25,160 Speaker 1: know it's um. There's so many great books to read 1049 00:56:25,200 --> 00:56:28,120 Speaker 1: about golf, even if you don't play it. When Mike 1050 00:56:28,239 --> 00:56:34,839 Speaker 1: and I bonded over um, Australian sports r Jeff Roades 1051 00:56:34,880 --> 00:56:36,600 Speaker 1: told me that your best sports book ever written was 1052 00:56:36,640 --> 00:56:40,200 Speaker 1: a Handful of Summers by Gordon Forbes. So I went 1053 00:56:40,320 --> 00:56:44,000 Speaker 1: and border in Lily Whites in London, which I don't 1054 00:56:44,000 --> 00:56:45,480 Speaker 1: know if Willie Wait still exists. It was one of 1055 00:56:45,560 --> 00:56:47,239 Speaker 1: the great sports stores of the world, I think. But 1056 00:56:47,960 --> 00:56:50,600 Speaker 1: that you said, you told me if I went in there, 1057 00:56:50,600 --> 00:56:52,160 Speaker 1: i'd find a copy of it. Sure enough it was 1058 00:56:52,239 --> 00:56:54,880 Speaker 1: in there. I lent it to Frank Nobelo and never 1059 00:56:54,960 --> 00:56:57,200 Speaker 1: got it back, which was always a great listen and 1060 00:56:57,280 --> 00:57:00,719 Speaker 1: never lend books so to buy not a copy, But 1061 00:57:00,800 --> 00:57:03,040 Speaker 1: I mean that was a great sports books just just 1062 00:57:03,200 --> 00:57:06,680 Speaker 1: a brilliant sports book. But there's so much great golf 1063 00:57:06,800 --> 00:57:09,399 Speaker 1: rotting that even if you didn't play golf you could 1064 00:57:09,400 --> 00:57:11,239 Speaker 1: read it about golf and just love it because the 1065 00:57:11,320 --> 00:57:14,960 Speaker 1: rotting is so great. Small of the ball, the better 1066 00:57:15,000 --> 00:57:20,640 Speaker 1: the rotting. Right, Yeah, that's George Plimpton. Yeah, only might 1067 00:57:20,760 --> 00:57:25,960 Speaker 1: because so many of of our listeners maybe won't even 1068 00:57:26,000 --> 00:57:27,600 Speaker 1: know the name. That they do know the name, they 1069 00:57:27,640 --> 00:57:29,520 Speaker 1: won't know how to spell it, and they really don't 1070 00:57:29,560 --> 00:57:32,400 Speaker 1: know anything about the man whose accomplishments his personality. But 1071 00:57:33,680 --> 00:57:36,440 Speaker 1: you're just old enough to have known Peter Thompson, and 1072 00:57:36,640 --> 00:57:39,200 Speaker 1: I'm wondering if you could could could could it could 1073 00:57:39,400 --> 00:57:42,440 Speaker 1: just give us a short biographical sketch of what an 1074 00:57:42,440 --> 00:57:45,600 Speaker 1: extraordinary man he was, both as a golfer and a 1075 00:57:45,800 --> 00:57:50,560 Speaker 1: politician and as a person in the game. It was 1076 00:57:50,720 --> 00:57:55,920 Speaker 1: no shot on um, I was walking. What was I 1077 00:57:56,000 --> 00:58:00,040 Speaker 1: watching them? Maybe the sandbolt so much? Remember um with 1078 00:58:00,120 --> 00:58:04,520 Speaker 1: Andrew his son, and we got to talking about because 1079 00:58:04,520 --> 00:58:06,960 Speaker 1: Thomas Noah made the game look easier than him ever, 1080 00:58:07,360 --> 00:58:09,360 Speaker 1: he looked like he was just playing a Saturday afternoon 1081 00:58:09,440 --> 00:58:12,720 Speaker 1: four ball in a tournament. It was amazing, I said, 1082 00:58:12,960 --> 00:58:16,280 Speaker 1: you know, was it was? It was the game simple 1083 00:58:16,360 --> 00:58:18,080 Speaker 1: for your dad because the way he thought about it, 1084 00:58:18,640 --> 00:58:20,560 Speaker 1: or was the way he thought about it so simple 1085 00:58:20,600 --> 00:58:23,400 Speaker 1: because of he just stumbled upon a really simple way 1086 00:58:23,480 --> 00:58:26,480 Speaker 1: to play it. And he said, you know, he said, 1087 00:58:27,680 --> 00:58:32,920 Speaker 1: and I never knew his his dad just disappeared. He 1088 00:58:33,040 --> 00:58:36,080 Speaker 1: was at the time, he was an only child. His 1089 00:58:36,160 --> 00:58:40,200 Speaker 1: father disappeared during the depression to go and make some 1090 00:58:40,480 --> 00:58:44,840 Speaker 1: earn a living, and his mother divorced eventually for desertion, 1091 00:58:45,480 --> 00:58:47,720 Speaker 1: which was a grounds for divorce back then, because that 1092 00:58:47,840 --> 00:58:50,240 Speaker 1: was in the year in Australia before no fault divorce. 1093 00:58:50,280 --> 00:58:53,440 Speaker 1: You you have to have a reason to divorce someone, 1094 00:58:53,760 --> 00:58:57,320 Speaker 1: and desertion was reading to divorce someone. So he said, 1095 00:58:57,360 --> 00:59:00,240 Speaker 1: he grew up with nothing poor, started playing off on 1096 00:59:00,280 --> 00:59:02,400 Speaker 1: a public course and just fan balls and hit a 1097 00:59:02,440 --> 00:59:06,320 Speaker 1: ball around. And but he he always had it. He 1098 00:59:06,360 --> 00:59:09,040 Speaker 1: had a great mind for golf. He was he played 1099 00:59:09,080 --> 00:59:11,960 Speaker 1: it so beautifully and simply and thought about it so simply. 1100 00:59:13,160 --> 00:59:16,760 Speaker 1: But he um, My dad took me to Metropolitan to 1101 00:59:16,800 --> 00:59:20,360 Speaker 1: watch the Australian PGA in nine seven. I think I 1102 00:59:20,440 --> 00:59:21,880 Speaker 1: was there for a couple of years, sixty seven and 1103 00:59:21,920 --> 00:59:26,040 Speaker 1: sixty eight. He stid of walked in there and he said, 1104 00:59:26,880 --> 00:59:28,800 Speaker 1: as Petter Thompson, he's the best player here, will go 1105 00:59:28,880 --> 00:59:31,080 Speaker 1: and watch him. So I didn't have any idea what 1106 00:59:31,160 --> 00:59:32,680 Speaker 1: I was watching, but I watched him and he was 1107 00:59:32,760 --> 00:59:34,640 Speaker 1: kind of my hero from that day on really, and 1108 00:59:35,880 --> 00:59:39,040 Speaker 1: I watched him. I took up golf a year later 1109 00:59:39,120 --> 00:59:41,120 Speaker 1: and went down to watch him play every chance I could. 1110 00:59:41,200 --> 00:59:43,440 Speaker 1: When he played the Sad Belton play the Torments in 1111 00:59:43,520 --> 00:59:47,760 Speaker 1: Melbourne and the first vic Open I played, you know, 1112 00:59:47,960 --> 00:59:49,680 Speaker 1: Yary year, I played with him and the third round 1113 00:59:49,720 --> 00:59:51,200 Speaker 1: was like god, I was so nervous playing with Petter 1114 00:59:51,240 --> 00:59:53,720 Speaker 1: Tom couldn't believe it. And he hit this drive out 1115 00:59:53,760 --> 00:59:57,320 Speaker 1: of the neck on the second hole. It um Yarry, yeah, 1116 00:59:57,480 --> 00:59:59,439 Speaker 1: just straight into those Cypres streets, left with the team. 1117 00:59:59,440 --> 01:00:01,400 Speaker 1: Couldn't belie of it, like out of someone like that 1118 01:00:01,480 --> 01:00:05,480 Speaker 1: hit a shot like that. But he was And I 1119 01:00:05,560 --> 01:00:07,560 Speaker 1: grew up reading him. I mean he wrote in the 1120 01:00:07,680 --> 01:00:12,200 Speaker 1: age most weeks, so his writing was you know, at 1121 01:00:12,240 --> 01:00:14,480 Speaker 1: the time, I disagreed with most of the things he 1122 01:00:14,600 --> 01:00:18,080 Speaker 1: was writing about, only to realize as I grew up 1123 01:00:18,120 --> 01:00:20,320 Speaker 1: and learned a bit about golf that I was completely 1124 01:00:20,360 --> 01:00:22,960 Speaker 1: wrong almost every time, and he was completely right everything 1125 01:00:23,040 --> 01:00:26,040 Speaker 1: he was saying about the game, and so he was 1126 01:00:26,240 --> 01:00:30,400 Speaker 1: incized if he was controversially, he was a beautiful writer. 1127 01:00:30,560 --> 01:00:33,160 Speaker 1: He thought about the game on a different level, and 1128 01:00:33,240 --> 01:00:35,520 Speaker 1: he was the talking about the world tour. He was 1129 01:00:35,600 --> 01:00:40,080 Speaker 1: the he was the one who really tried to instigate 1130 01:00:40,120 --> 01:00:41,880 Speaker 1: the world tour. He was the one who was writing 1131 01:00:41,920 --> 01:00:46,160 Speaker 1: about a tour outside of America because he realized the 1132 01:00:46,320 --> 01:00:51,160 Speaker 1: game needed to provide more jobs for more players. So 1133 01:00:51,320 --> 01:00:54,640 Speaker 1: he essentially set up and started the Asian Tour, and 1134 01:00:54,760 --> 01:00:57,640 Speaker 1: he went played in Japan a lot, He played in Europe, lot, 1135 01:00:57,640 --> 01:01:00,160 Speaker 1: and he played a lot in Australia obviously, and he 1136 01:01:00,240 --> 01:01:02,000 Speaker 1: was the main guy in the in the sixties. He 1137 01:01:02,120 --> 01:01:04,720 Speaker 1: was the main guy. He took no appearance man, He 1138 01:01:04,800 --> 01:01:06,640 Speaker 1: just he played because he realized that the game had 1139 01:01:06,680 --> 01:01:12,240 Speaker 1: to develop and him as the the most important non 1140 01:01:12,280 --> 01:01:15,880 Speaker 1: American player around the world, it was fell on him 1141 01:01:15,920 --> 01:01:19,400 Speaker 1: to kind of pull it together, which he did. You know, 1142 01:01:19,480 --> 01:01:23,680 Speaker 1: he walked the walk and he he and Kilnego were 1143 01:01:23,720 --> 01:01:30,920 Speaker 1: incredible but brilliant minds, simple, great writer, beautiful player only 1144 01:01:31,120 --> 01:01:34,480 Speaker 1: and he would turn up to Jeff I'm sure you 1145 01:01:34,560 --> 01:01:37,240 Speaker 1: were a pennant Dinners of Victoria, where he would come 1146 01:01:37,280 --> 01:01:39,880 Speaker 1: and speak to the Pennant team, and he would turn 1147 01:01:40,000 --> 01:01:42,919 Speaker 1: up at dinners and lunches and just speak just because 1148 01:01:42,920 --> 01:01:46,680 Speaker 1: he it was. It gave any kind of event that 1149 01:01:46,760 --> 01:01:49,040 Speaker 1: had no right to be important kind of gravitats because 1150 01:01:49,080 --> 01:01:52,280 Speaker 1: he was there. He d dangerous with his presence, almost 1151 01:01:52,760 --> 01:01:55,000 Speaker 1: in a positive way, not not like it was. He 1152 01:01:55,040 --> 01:01:58,480 Speaker 1: would just turn up and just be Petter Thompson, which 1153 01:01:58,480 --> 01:02:03,760 Speaker 1: would just be really cool and talk about golfing, great speaker, funny, deprecating, 1154 01:02:04,320 --> 01:02:06,960 Speaker 1: self deprecating. He played played down what he did, but 1155 01:02:08,480 --> 01:02:10,320 Speaker 1: he knew what he'd done was important. You know. He 1156 01:02:10,400 --> 01:02:13,520 Speaker 1: had a great sense of without being bost he had 1157 01:02:13,520 --> 01:02:15,600 Speaker 1: a great sense of his importance in the game and 1158 01:02:15,760 --> 01:02:19,240 Speaker 1: who he was. And he always you know, his legacy 1159 01:02:19,400 --> 01:02:24,640 Speaker 1: was incredible. Really when he when he won the Australian 1160 01:02:24,640 --> 01:02:29,120 Speaker 1: Open in eighteen seventy two, he was in his mid fifties, right, No, no, no, 1161 01:02:29,320 --> 01:02:31,640 Speaker 1: he was forty two. He was nine twenty nine. He 1162 01:02:31,720 --> 01:02:36,240 Speaker 1: was the same he was Annald Palmer. Yeah, yeah, so 1163 01:02:36,560 --> 01:02:39,440 Speaker 1: he was. So I remember him writing, you know, and 1164 01:02:39,640 --> 01:02:41,560 Speaker 1: forty two when I was like, you know it was 1165 01:02:41,600 --> 01:02:44,160 Speaker 1: I right, No, sevent two, I was fifteen sixteen, So 1166 01:02:44,360 --> 01:02:47,240 Speaker 1: forty two seems like ancient you know, he was an 1167 01:02:47,280 --> 01:02:50,600 Speaker 1: old man. Of course he wasn't old at all. But 1168 01:02:51,280 --> 01:02:54,560 Speaker 1: and he wrote about when he won. He wrote about 1169 01:02:54,680 --> 01:02:56,800 Speaker 1: you know, obviously there was more pressure on David because 1170 01:02:57,440 --> 01:03:00,920 Speaker 1: in truth this was a much more important torming for 1171 01:03:01,040 --> 01:03:03,160 Speaker 1: him to win that it was for me. So he 1172 01:03:03,280 --> 01:03:06,960 Speaker 1: was playing it down. But um, he had a beautiful 1173 01:03:06,960 --> 01:03:10,000 Speaker 1: shot into the seventy second hole. He was one behind him, 1174 01:03:10,040 --> 01:03:11,920 Speaker 1: had a seven eye to a foot, just a beautiful 1175 01:03:11,920 --> 01:03:14,640 Speaker 1: shot which was in the elastic Keyonga which was a 1176 01:03:14,720 --> 01:03:16,760 Speaker 1: short path for he bumped a three with off the 1177 01:03:16,840 --> 01:03:22,360 Speaker 1: tea and hit a beautiful shot. But the famous story 1178 01:03:23,440 --> 01:03:27,560 Speaker 1: of the playoff, of course, stupidly and unimaginably. Now there 1179 01:03:27,600 --> 01:03:30,680 Speaker 1: was an eighteen whole playoff on Monday which was televised. 1180 01:03:31,440 --> 01:03:35,240 Speaker 1: So Peter had probably gone to Royal that lay, which 1181 01:03:35,280 --> 01:03:39,320 Speaker 1: is just around the corner, to warm up, hit a 1182 01:03:39,360 --> 01:03:43,040 Speaker 1: few balls and warm up, David said, David sitting balls 1183 01:03:43,040 --> 01:03:46,280 Speaker 1: on the range of Kyonga and Guy Wolston home. It 1184 01:03:46,400 --> 01:03:49,440 Speaker 1: was a terrific English player who emigrated to Australia and 1185 01:03:49,560 --> 01:03:53,080 Speaker 1: lived here and played here for in the seventies. Um 1186 01:03:55,680 --> 01:03:57,480 Speaker 1: Peter was up on the balcony of the club was 1187 01:03:57,480 --> 01:03:59,080 Speaker 1: having a cup of tea, and David Graham kind of 1188 01:03:59,080 --> 01:04:01,800 Speaker 1: turns around and said, he's not even taking it seriously, 1189 01:04:01,920 --> 01:04:04,200 Speaker 1: he's not even hitting any balls. What's he doing because 1190 01:04:04,200 --> 01:04:06,640 Speaker 1: he's probably stuck off and hit balls all that day. 1191 01:04:06,640 --> 01:04:11,479 Speaker 1: But anyway, um, I didn't know, I'll play off. Peter 1192 01:04:11,560 --> 01:04:13,800 Speaker 1: walked under the tea and just kind of it was 1193 01:04:13,840 --> 01:04:15,680 Speaker 1: a kind of a bit of I guess it was 1194 01:04:16,240 --> 01:04:20,280 Speaker 1: probably pretty not that organized, not that ma sure, but 1195 01:04:20,720 --> 01:04:25,040 Speaker 1: pretty just ted his ball up and hit it, and 1196 01:04:25,200 --> 01:04:28,160 Speaker 1: David was upset, Um, well, you know, we didn't toss 1197 01:04:28,160 --> 01:04:29,440 Speaker 1: a coin, and he said, well, I made three. The 1198 01:04:29,520 --> 01:04:34,880 Speaker 1: last home was my honor goes. David was obviously nervous, 1199 01:04:35,000 --> 01:04:40,640 Speaker 1: and now he's upset and Snap walks that having hit 1200 01:04:40,920 --> 01:04:44,520 Speaker 1: twenty perfect drives on the practice flay, Snap poked it 1201 01:04:44,560 --> 01:04:46,000 Speaker 1: out in the practice fair and walked down there to 1202 01:04:46,080 --> 01:04:49,560 Speaker 1: find white steaks on the side of the practice fairways 1203 01:04:49,600 --> 01:04:52,320 Speaker 1: balls out of bounds. He's now going to walk back 1204 01:04:52,360 --> 01:04:54,160 Speaker 1: to the teeth. As he's walking back to the tea, 1205 01:04:54,680 --> 01:04:56,840 Speaker 1: Peter hits his second shide up fifty yards shot of 1206 01:04:56,880 --> 01:05:01,280 Speaker 1: the green and and then proceeds to pitch to the 1207 01:05:01,320 --> 01:05:03,720 Speaker 1: twenty ft and knock it in made four and David 1208 01:05:03,800 --> 01:05:09,160 Speaker 1: made seven, and he beat him seventy four. But you 1209 01:05:09,240 --> 01:05:12,280 Speaker 1: know it was over even before David hit a shot, really, 1210 01:05:12,960 --> 01:05:15,640 Speaker 1: and he would play those sort of Penny would play 1211 01:05:15,720 --> 01:05:17,760 Speaker 1: those sort of mind games. He was. It was a 1212 01:05:17,840 --> 01:05:23,640 Speaker 1: great sledger. Is a sled is sledging a word in America. 1213 01:05:23,760 --> 01:05:30,320 Speaker 1: Jeff thinks it's a cricket game. For needle, it's need 1214 01:05:30,560 --> 01:05:33,240 Speaker 1: It's a needle, yeah, needle. Yeah, it's called sledging and cricket. 1215 01:05:33,640 --> 01:05:35,520 Speaker 1: So Tom I was a great sledger. He kind of 1216 01:05:35,680 --> 01:05:38,000 Speaker 1: throwing a little kind of Lee Travino type barb every 1217 01:05:38,040 --> 01:05:40,480 Speaker 1: now and that. It was actually clever and quite funny. 1218 01:05:41,400 --> 01:05:45,480 Speaker 1: But yeah, he was. I'd love to hear that because 1219 01:05:45,680 --> 01:05:50,000 Speaker 1: he always seemed like such a perfect gentleman, and I 1220 01:05:50,120 --> 01:05:52,600 Speaker 1: pictured him as, you know, a boy scout out there. 1221 01:05:52,600 --> 01:05:53,600 Speaker 1: I like to hear he had a little bit of 1222 01:05:53,600 --> 01:05:56,280 Speaker 1: an edge, you know about that day I played with him, 1223 01:05:56,280 --> 01:05:58,280 Speaker 1: The area of the fourth old area was a great 1224 01:05:58,360 --> 01:06:01,480 Speaker 1: part three and we're hitting seven eyes chef, so that 1225 01:06:01,600 --> 01:06:03,200 Speaker 1: was kind of some indication what the wind was like 1226 01:06:03,360 --> 01:06:07,000 Speaker 1: is and the green used to kind of bow off 1227 01:06:07,040 --> 01:06:10,320 Speaker 1: at the sides of it. They changed it years later 1228 01:06:10,400 --> 01:06:13,000 Speaker 1: and ruined it and Tom don't fixed it. But um, 1229 01:06:14,040 --> 01:06:15,560 Speaker 1: you hit the edge of the green and always kick 1230 01:06:15,560 --> 01:06:17,000 Speaker 1: off the edge of the green into the deep bunk 1231 01:06:17,040 --> 01:06:18,640 Speaker 1: on the left. This pretty good shot with the seven 1232 01:06:18,680 --> 01:06:20,440 Speaker 1: iron and just kind of got in the wind and 1233 01:06:20,520 --> 01:06:22,000 Speaker 1: kind of turned a bit left and hit this thing. 1234 01:06:22,080 --> 01:06:25,800 Speaker 1: And I went down the bunker and yeah, as I 1235 01:06:25,880 --> 01:06:27,680 Speaker 1: pulled my tear to the ground, he was walking up 1236 01:06:27,720 --> 01:06:29,680 Speaker 1: to hit and he said, he said, the wind got 1237 01:06:29,720 --> 01:06:32,360 Speaker 1: you there, didn't it. It was that was just Tomo, 1238 01:06:32,480 --> 01:06:34,320 Speaker 1: you know him. The wind got you there. It was. 1239 01:06:34,440 --> 01:06:38,760 Speaker 1: It was just a he was Yeah, he was great. 1240 01:06:38,960 --> 01:06:43,040 Speaker 1: He was great because he was Yeah. It was the 1241 01:06:43,120 --> 01:06:45,760 Speaker 1: way you would talk to someone playing a friendly game 1242 01:06:45,800 --> 01:06:48,160 Speaker 1: on Saturday afternoon at the club. He just he never 1243 01:06:48,240 --> 01:06:51,120 Speaker 1: treated toime and golf any differently, and people would get 1244 01:06:51,200 --> 01:06:53,720 Speaker 1: upset it. He would kind of throw these little needles in, 1245 01:06:53,800 --> 01:06:56,320 Speaker 1: but it was it was exactly what you would say 1246 01:06:56,360 --> 01:06:59,040 Speaker 1: to a mate playing and not playing a friendly game. 1247 01:06:59,360 --> 01:07:03,160 Speaker 1: He just treated the same. But but he was great 1248 01:07:03,400 --> 01:07:06,240 Speaker 1: for the young players. He was. Norman Vonneider had mentored 1249 01:07:06,400 --> 01:07:08,880 Speaker 1: him when he was to the point where the first 1250 01:07:09,000 --> 01:07:12,680 Speaker 1: year he went to Europe, Voneyda said well, because Petter 1251 01:07:12,760 --> 01:07:15,000 Speaker 1: didn't obviously have much money of the first year he 1252 01:07:15,160 --> 01:07:20,360 Speaker 1: was there and nine fifty one, and Vonnier offered to 1253 01:07:20,600 --> 01:07:22,880 Speaker 1: split the prize money. Let's just split our prize money, 1254 01:07:23,320 --> 01:07:25,400 Speaker 1: which was von saying if you run out of money, 1255 01:07:25,600 --> 01:07:28,000 Speaker 1: I'll back you. Don't worry about it. But I mean, 1256 01:07:28,040 --> 01:07:30,960 Speaker 1: Petty was six in his first open and there was 1257 01:07:31,000 --> 01:07:33,760 Speaker 1: no need for him to put his prize money, but yeah, 1258 01:07:33,800 --> 01:07:36,560 Speaker 1: he was so so Vonneider had really helped him, and 1259 01:07:36,600 --> 01:07:39,400 Speaker 1: Peter kind of took that on board, and you know 1260 01:07:39,480 --> 01:07:43,520 Speaker 1: the next generation, Graham marsh and David Graham Stewart again, 1261 01:07:43,800 --> 01:07:45,880 Speaker 1: Bob she here. He was a great mentor to all 1262 01:07:45,920 --> 01:07:48,000 Speaker 1: those guys, which is sort of what we're trying to 1263 01:07:48,040 --> 01:07:50,320 Speaker 1: do with the Sandbolt Toma. Jeff, I guess is really 1264 01:07:50,480 --> 01:07:53,440 Speaker 1: carry on that legacy of Thompson and Voneida of helping 1265 01:07:53,520 --> 01:07:56,800 Speaker 1: young kids have find their way in the game because 1266 01:07:56,840 --> 01:08:02,720 Speaker 1: it's not absolutely Yeah, well this is why you're so indispensable. You, 1267 01:08:03,120 --> 01:08:04,680 Speaker 1: like Jeff said, you can bridge the gap from for 1268 01:08:04,760 --> 01:08:07,560 Speaker 1: Peter Thompson and Semi by Sterios to take her woods too. 1269 01:08:08,600 --> 01:08:12,280 Speaker 1: You know, the modern architecture like it's it's quite a 1270 01:08:12,360 --> 01:08:15,480 Speaker 1: golfing life you've had. Yeah, it's been a you know, 1271 01:08:15,560 --> 01:08:17,719 Speaker 1: it's I've loved it. It's been a wild ride. Really, 1272 01:08:17,960 --> 01:08:20,960 Speaker 1: it's still started because I my parents bought a house 1273 01:08:21,000 --> 01:08:23,040 Speaker 1: at the back of a golf course that no longer exists. 1274 01:08:23,200 --> 01:08:25,479 Speaker 1: They sold off the houses but when we jumped the 1275 01:08:25,560 --> 01:08:27,720 Speaker 1: fence to caddy just to make some money. Really, so 1276 01:08:27,840 --> 01:08:30,599 Speaker 1: it's a it's a it's a pitying caddy has gone 1277 01:08:30,640 --> 01:08:33,920 Speaker 1: out of the game in Australia. But um, yeah, it's 1278 01:08:33,960 --> 01:08:38,000 Speaker 1: been up. You know, golf. Golf finds you really more 1279 01:08:38,040 --> 01:08:40,760 Speaker 1: than we find it almost. But it's a cool game, 1280 01:08:40,840 --> 01:08:42,799 Speaker 1: you know, it's been an amazing game to be involved 1281 01:08:42,960 --> 01:08:45,479 Speaker 1: and just yeah, I can't believe that people have met 1282 01:08:45,560 --> 01:08:49,080 Speaker 1: really and it's amazing. Caddied for a caddy for a 1283 01:08:49,280 --> 01:08:53,560 Speaker 1: friend of mine at the Wills Masters in Victoria and 1284 01:08:53,600 --> 01:08:56,880 Speaker 1: he played with Norman Voneider And then when I turned 1285 01:08:56,920 --> 01:08:59,479 Speaker 1: pro John Kelly and I won the Australian Amet as well. 1286 01:09:00,320 --> 01:09:02,320 Speaker 1: We went and stayed with Norman Vonida for a week 1287 01:09:02,400 --> 01:09:04,360 Speaker 1: at Carrelbin and he trying to taught us and play 1288 01:09:04,439 --> 01:09:07,599 Speaker 1: with this and here I was like in or of Norman. 1289 01:09:08,040 --> 01:09:12,080 Speaker 1: Norman voneider and six years later, I'm saking my girlfriend 1290 01:09:12,120 --> 01:09:14,880 Speaker 1: into the flat so after he'd gone to sleep, and 1291 01:09:15,920 --> 01:09:18,040 Speaker 1: who's now my wife? And you know, but I mean, 1292 01:09:18,600 --> 01:09:20,880 Speaker 1: you know the thing that I mean having got to 1293 01:09:20,960 --> 01:09:23,080 Speaker 1: know vonn in the years after, I mean, the last 1294 01:09:23,080 --> 01:09:25,240 Speaker 1: thing Norman Vona would kid about was me snaking my 1295 01:09:25,320 --> 01:09:27,040 Speaker 1: girlfriend into the end of the house after he'd gone 1296 01:09:27,040 --> 01:09:29,400 Speaker 1: to sleep. I mean, it would have been full of 1297 01:09:29,520 --> 01:09:33,400 Speaker 1: encouragement for that sort of behavior. But god, he was 1298 01:09:33,479 --> 01:09:36,040 Speaker 1: such a legend, Norman Vonia. What a player he was. Wow, 1299 01:09:36,439 --> 01:09:38,000 Speaker 1: I think you still got the record for the most 1300 01:09:38,080 --> 01:09:40,040 Speaker 1: number of torments one in Europe in a single year. 1301 01:09:41,200 --> 01:09:42,840 Speaker 1: So he was you know, he was a he was 1302 01:09:42,880 --> 01:09:46,040 Speaker 1: a god in Australia. That's a good bit of trivia. 1303 01:09:46,040 --> 01:09:47,519 Speaker 1: You can make some money the week of the Open 1304 01:09:47,600 --> 01:09:50,639 Speaker 1: in the in the pubs, they're asking asking the fans 1305 01:09:50,800 --> 01:09:54,120 Speaker 1: that Norman h can I get one more? Can I 1306 01:09:54,160 --> 01:09:58,400 Speaker 1: get one more? In here? Of course, last call for 1307 01:09:58,520 --> 01:10:01,760 Speaker 1: both of you guys when you worked to other, are 1308 01:10:01,800 --> 01:10:03,880 Speaker 1: you very much on the same page. You have different 1309 01:10:04,160 --> 01:10:07,320 Speaker 1: ways of looking at a golf halls and what a 1310 01:10:07,360 --> 01:10:14,240 Speaker 1: golf cours should be. Um well, I think that having 1311 01:10:14,360 --> 01:10:17,200 Speaker 1: both grown up at ray Melbourne. Jeff was a caddie 1312 01:10:17,240 --> 01:10:20,000 Speaker 1: and living on the course, and me is just you 1313 01:10:20,080 --> 01:10:23,160 Speaker 1: know some of who played it lots we and we 1314 01:10:23,280 --> 01:10:25,360 Speaker 1: both love St Andrews, so we all see the same things. 1315 01:10:25,439 --> 01:10:30,479 Speaker 1: I think you know, and Mackenzie was you know, he 1316 01:10:30,680 --> 01:10:34,800 Speaker 1: was transferring the sort of golf you have to play 1317 01:10:34,840 --> 01:10:38,400 Speaker 1: it on the old course. You transferred that around the world. 1318 01:10:38,479 --> 01:10:41,200 Speaker 1: He certainly took it to August and he took it 1319 01:10:41,240 --> 01:10:42,800 Speaker 1: to Roy Melbourne. So I think we all sort of 1320 01:10:42,880 --> 01:10:46,720 Speaker 1: see that that same sort of the way the game 1321 01:10:47,120 --> 01:10:49,320 Speaker 1: has played the old course and helped plays out and 1322 01:10:50,200 --> 01:10:52,000 Speaker 1: the choices you have to make. I think Jeff and 1323 01:10:52,000 --> 01:10:54,760 Speaker 1: I both see the see the game the same way 1324 01:10:55,000 --> 01:10:57,840 Speaker 1: because Rayal Melbourne was such an influence on as kids, 1325 01:10:57,880 --> 01:11:00,599 Speaker 1: and when you go to the old course and play there, 1326 01:11:01,680 --> 01:11:04,559 Speaker 1: you know this will makes sense now. So I think 1327 01:11:04,600 --> 01:11:06,479 Speaker 1: we both see the same sort of things. Really that 1328 01:11:06,600 --> 01:11:09,640 Speaker 1: makes sense. Jeff, I think it's completely true. I think 1329 01:11:09,680 --> 01:11:13,400 Speaker 1: we see it the same. I think it's nice to 1330 01:11:13,479 --> 01:11:16,760 Speaker 1: have two different generations to where I'm seeing three yards 1331 01:11:16,800 --> 01:11:22,760 Speaker 1: after team, you're seeing two fifty um and you just 1332 01:11:23,280 --> 01:11:26,720 Speaker 1: sort of getting because the philosophy works at any yet 1333 01:11:26,840 --> 01:11:31,160 Speaker 1: length really, you know, solid architecture. Royal Melbourne would be fine. 1334 01:11:31,200 --> 01:11:33,000 Speaker 1: Shorter or longer, it doesn't really matter. I mean, that's 1335 01:11:33,000 --> 01:11:36,360 Speaker 1: why Target is the best player there, because even though 1336 01:11:36,400 --> 01:11:38,560 Speaker 1: he's hitting at forty yards further than Severy was in 1337 01:11:40,600 --> 01:11:42,960 Speaker 1: it's still plays right. The right spots still the right spot, 1338 01:11:43,120 --> 01:11:44,840 Speaker 1: you know, and the right shots still the right shot, 1339 01:11:45,479 --> 01:11:49,240 Speaker 1: and it's still it still needs that the old course 1340 01:11:49,360 --> 01:11:51,599 Speaker 1: Royal Melbourne August that you still need to be one 1341 01:11:51,600 --> 01:11:53,479 Speaker 1: of the very very very best golfers in the world 1342 01:11:53,520 --> 01:11:56,519 Speaker 1: to sort of exploit and play it properly, you know. 1343 01:11:57,280 --> 01:12:00,439 Speaker 1: And that's just golfer is more interesting. It's more depth 1344 01:12:01,240 --> 01:12:03,280 Speaker 1: that way than just simple hit it here and hit 1345 01:12:03,320 --> 01:12:05,840 Speaker 1: it here, you know. So I think both of us 1346 01:12:06,040 --> 01:12:12,720 Speaker 1: very fortunate to grow up like around such incredible architecture, 1347 01:12:12,840 --> 01:12:15,920 Speaker 1: you know, because everywhere you go golf is not quite 1348 01:12:15,920 --> 01:12:17,920 Speaker 1: as good except for just a few there's just a 1349 01:12:17,960 --> 01:12:19,640 Speaker 1: few select places in the world where it's as good 1350 01:12:19,640 --> 01:12:21,760 Speaker 1: as real Melburn, but not many, you know, So we 1351 01:12:22,000 --> 01:12:26,800 Speaker 1: had very fortunate education just by geography. Really, proof of 1352 01:12:26,880 --> 01:12:30,519 Speaker 1: how great Royal Melbourne was, I thought, was Lydia co 1353 01:12:30,720 --> 01:12:34,519 Speaker 1: playing this train open there. How she took that thing 1354 01:12:34,560 --> 01:12:38,160 Speaker 1: apart and won by seven shots or something, and Stacy 1355 01:12:38,280 --> 01:12:40,880 Speaker 1: Lewis was complaining that Royal MOLBN didn't reward good shots, 1356 01:12:40,920 --> 01:12:43,240 Speaker 1: which was exactly right, it only rewards great shots. But 1357 01:12:43,800 --> 01:12:48,200 Speaker 1: Lydia was just this was pre They're going to see 1358 01:12:48,280 --> 01:12:50,960 Speaker 1: lead Better in the A swing. But you know, as 1359 01:12:51,000 --> 01:12:54,200 Speaker 1: great as watching Sevy entire play Royal Melbourne, as interesting 1360 01:12:54,320 --> 01:12:58,720 Speaker 1: was watching the best woman in the world and how 1361 01:12:58,840 --> 01:13:01,400 Speaker 1: she got her way around that course and how she 1362 01:13:01,560 --> 01:13:03,320 Speaker 1: figured out how to play it and the shots she hit, 1363 01:13:03,400 --> 01:13:08,479 Speaker 1: and that was just as fascinating. It's amazing. So um 1364 01:13:09,280 --> 01:13:14,400 Speaker 1: she was is great. She's back at number one right now. 1365 01:13:14,479 --> 01:13:16,960 Speaker 1: She she number one the world again. She is yeah, yeah, 1366 01:13:17,080 --> 01:13:20,160 Speaker 1: she's she made it back, and you know she's not 1367 01:13:20,240 --> 01:13:22,240 Speaker 1: with Leadbetter anymore, and she's kind of gone back a 1368 01:13:22,280 --> 01:13:24,640 Speaker 1: little to her roots and her old, older swing and 1369 01:13:25,280 --> 01:13:27,200 Speaker 1: I think she's gearing up for another big run, which 1370 01:13:27,240 --> 01:13:29,560 Speaker 1: would be delightful. But yeah, you're right, that's an overlooked 1371 01:13:30,400 --> 01:13:33,439 Speaker 1: victory when people talk about her, just pure genius, like 1372 01:13:33,600 --> 01:13:36,800 Speaker 1: the way she remember that week that was that was 1373 01:13:36,880 --> 01:13:42,479 Speaker 1: an incredible stuff. Oh but not many top tens, not 1374 01:13:42,760 --> 01:13:45,519 Speaker 1: many courses. Let would let that happen. You know Role 1375 01:13:45,600 --> 01:13:48,680 Speaker 1: Melbourne and they all course Augustin probably not so much 1376 01:13:48,720 --> 01:13:53,280 Speaker 1: off the taste we played, but um, anyone, it's there 1377 01:13:53,320 --> 01:13:56,240 Speaker 1: for everybody. It doesn't matter what length you hit it. Um. 1378 01:13:56,840 --> 01:13:59,120 Speaker 1: Role Melbourne has the similar challenge. You get the same 1379 01:13:59,200 --> 01:14:01,320 Speaker 1: shots and you get every opportunity if you hit good 1380 01:14:01,360 --> 01:14:03,280 Speaker 1: shots at your length, you can play Role Melbourne. You know, 1381 01:14:03,360 --> 01:14:08,599 Speaker 1: it's not length is proportionately rewarded, not disproportionately. Imagine Bethpage 1382 01:14:08,640 --> 01:14:11,280 Speaker 1: Black but girls playing out there. I mean it's just 1383 01:14:11,439 --> 01:14:13,960 Speaker 1: doesn't work right. But Role Melbourne, it gets better almost 1384 01:14:14,000 --> 01:14:18,800 Speaker 1: the shorty hit it, you know. Um, yeah, genius. She 1385 01:14:18,840 --> 01:14:20,519 Speaker 1: didn't miss a shot for years, did she. She looks 1386 01:14:20,560 --> 01:14:23,559 Speaker 1: like she's back to where she was. Yeah, she's fantastic. Yeah, 1387 01:14:23,680 --> 01:14:26,200 Speaker 1: she was just an amazing player. She was almost the 1388 01:14:26,240 --> 01:14:28,120 Speaker 1: best part of the world of fifteen. When do you 1389 01:14:28,120 --> 01:14:31,680 Speaker 1: when they Canadian open at fifteen and it was phenomenal 1390 01:14:31,800 --> 01:14:37,559 Speaker 1: half creative players she is. That's good stuff all right? 1391 01:14:37,600 --> 01:14:39,599 Speaker 1: Before before you let might go, do you have any 1392 01:14:39,720 --> 01:14:45,240 Speaker 1: any parting thoughts? Jeff, No at all. He's giving you 1393 01:14:45,320 --> 01:14:48,240 Speaker 1: guys a few stories you haven't heard, yea more than 1394 01:14:48,280 --> 01:14:52,160 Speaker 1: a few. Um No, thanks for coming, Thanks for johning us. 1395 01:14:52,600 --> 01:14:54,160 Speaker 1: We couldn't do it. We couldn't do it without you. 1396 01:14:54,320 --> 01:15:00,400 Speaker 1: There's seventy ninth most Important President Goal podcast. Yeah, he's trending. 1397 01:15:00,560 --> 01:15:04,479 Speaker 1: He's trending alright, Mike. Well, if you see the little 1398 01:15:04,560 --> 01:15:06,800 Speaker 1: red phone icon at the bottom, click that. We we 1399 01:15:06,880 --> 01:15:09,439 Speaker 1: have a tradition of our guest leaves and then we 1400 01:15:09,520 --> 01:15:11,559 Speaker 1: talked about them behind their back, so we're gonna carry 1401 01:15:11,600 --> 01:15:14,280 Speaker 1: that on. Okay, thank you so much for your time. 1402 01:15:14,520 --> 01:15:17,560 Speaker 1: It was It was a great pleasure. Mike Clayton, what 1403 01:15:17,720 --> 01:15:23,360 Speaker 1: a gent Yeah, I'm telling you, like golf trivia between 1404 01:15:23,400 --> 01:15:28,120 Speaker 1: Bamburger and Clayton would be interesting. Um, many facts that 1405 01:15:28,200 --> 01:15:32,040 Speaker 1: he doesn't not obscure European tour players from the early 1406 01:15:32,120 --> 01:15:36,040 Speaker 1: eighties like that. That's the sweet spot. That's why I 1407 01:15:36,200 --> 01:15:38,519 Speaker 1: interviewed the guy the other day. He'd read he's read 1408 01:15:38,640 --> 01:15:43,000 Speaker 1: a book about Johnny McDermott and he's Irish himself, the 1409 01:15:43,439 --> 01:15:46,840 Speaker 1: author of the book. And we talked for thirty minutes, 1410 01:15:46,880 --> 01:15:48,200 Speaker 1: and then the guy wrote me note he said, I 1411 01:15:48,240 --> 01:15:50,160 Speaker 1: haven't talked to anybody for thirty minutes on the phone 1412 01:15:50,200 --> 01:15:54,720 Speaker 1: since high school. I'm like, minutes is nothing, But here 1413 01:15:54,760 --> 01:15:58,080 Speaker 1: we are in our fifteen with Mike Clayton, and literally 1414 01:15:58,160 --> 01:16:00,760 Speaker 1: we did not scratch the service. What he knows about 1415 01:16:00,800 --> 01:16:03,040 Speaker 1: the game, what he feels about the game, the fact 1416 01:16:03,080 --> 01:16:05,479 Speaker 1: that he still needs to play every day, the golf 1417 01:16:05,560 --> 01:16:08,000 Speaker 1: courses that he snuck onto, let alone the courses he 1418 01:16:08,040 --> 01:16:11,479 Speaker 1: played legitmanly. I mean, he's got such a rich golfing life. 1419 01:16:11,520 --> 01:16:13,679 Speaker 1: And when he jokes at Leader Thompson has a polly Met, 1420 01:16:13,960 --> 01:16:16,280 Speaker 1: he used, well, Peter Thompson death, it was the polly 1421 01:16:16,320 --> 01:16:20,160 Speaker 1: met the poly mets probably, but Mike Clayton's right there too. 1422 01:16:21,640 --> 01:16:26,400 Speaker 1: Jen Stevenson's name to even come up. He genuinely plays golf. 1423 01:16:26,479 --> 01:16:29,840 Speaker 1: He genuinely plays golf every day. I don't I cannot 1424 01:16:29,840 --> 01:16:33,960 Speaker 1: remember a day when he plays golf every day. And 1425 01:16:34,040 --> 01:16:36,240 Speaker 1: he would travel, if he went somewhere for golf, he 1426 01:16:36,280 --> 01:16:39,439 Speaker 1: would tag his golf clubs before his clothes, like it's 1427 01:16:39,600 --> 01:16:44,639 Speaker 1: clubs first, clothes optional, you know, like fantastic and talk 1428 01:16:44,680 --> 01:16:47,280 Speaker 1: about golf. He can talk about anything, like he talks 1429 01:16:47,280 --> 01:16:51,040 Speaker 1: about anything until he's very well read. Um as he said, 1430 01:16:51,080 --> 01:16:54,400 Speaker 1: he's probably read every golf book ever written twice, you know, 1431 01:16:55,280 --> 01:17:00,360 Speaker 1: some of them ten times. He just just it's a 1432 01:17:00,439 --> 01:17:05,360 Speaker 1: loft Tom Passion for for a guy ron incredible. I 1433 01:17:05,479 --> 01:17:08,679 Speaker 1: interviewed him about Greg Norman for this this live book 1434 01:17:08,760 --> 01:17:11,479 Speaker 1: that I'm writing, and and he was recounting on top 1435 01:17:11,520 --> 01:17:14,440 Speaker 1: of his head all kinds of old tournaments and details 1436 01:17:14,520 --> 01:17:17,000 Speaker 1: and shots and scores. And I went back and looked 1437 01:17:17,080 --> 01:17:20,360 Speaker 1: him all up. He was right about every single number 1438 01:17:20,400 --> 01:17:23,400 Speaker 1: and every single detail. It was uncanny. I mean, stuff 1439 01:17:23,400 --> 01:17:26,840 Speaker 1: from the seventies, like just an incredible mind for it. 1440 01:17:27,240 --> 01:17:30,240 Speaker 1: But let's get back to Jan Stevenson. What's that story. No, 1441 01:17:30,400 --> 01:17:33,280 Speaker 1: it's just you know, icon of the game that I 1442 01:17:33,360 --> 01:17:36,439 Speaker 1: thought this might be like shades of Norm Bend Nita's 1443 01:17:36,479 --> 01:17:40,640 Speaker 1: a flat sneaking in. But now I'm disappointed. Um, Um 1444 01:17:41,280 --> 01:17:46,360 Speaker 1: check the you know, as as Mike representatives, Peter Thompson did, 1445 01:17:46,720 --> 01:17:50,800 Speaker 1: as Adam Scott does. That unpretentious spirit of the Australian 1446 01:17:50,840 --> 01:17:53,639 Speaker 1: golfer is one of the richest links in the game. 1447 01:17:53,960 --> 01:17:55,880 Speaker 1: As you've gotten to know some of these younger players 1448 01:17:55,920 --> 01:17:58,440 Speaker 1: coming up, you know, with the sand Belt, the Invitational 1449 01:17:58,520 --> 01:18:01,360 Speaker 1: and other things that you do. Um, is there any 1450 01:18:01,439 --> 01:18:05,599 Speaker 1: jeopardy of of golf, of Australian golf losing that spirit 1451 01:18:05,680 --> 01:18:08,240 Speaker 1: or are you seeing it in the next generation. No, 1452 01:18:08,560 --> 01:18:12,280 Speaker 1: I think that's a bit of a trait of all Ozzies, 1453 01:18:12,520 --> 01:18:15,640 Speaker 1: to be honest, we all sort of it's good and 1454 01:18:15,760 --> 01:18:18,800 Speaker 1: it's bad, right. It keeps everybody sort of unassuming, and 1455 01:18:18,840 --> 01:18:20,840 Speaker 1: it keeps e gooes in check. But it also probably 1456 01:18:21,080 --> 01:18:23,640 Speaker 1: it's a little negative to sometimes we chopped down our 1457 01:18:23,680 --> 01:18:26,680 Speaker 1: stars a little bit bringing back to earth. Your mates 1458 01:18:26,720 --> 01:18:29,560 Speaker 1: are always bringing you back to earth. Um, they're not 1459 01:18:29,640 --> 01:18:31,639 Speaker 1: letting get not let letting get your head of self, 1460 01:18:31,760 --> 01:18:34,120 Speaker 1: head of yourself too much. Like you go to the US, 1461 01:18:34,680 --> 01:18:37,360 Speaker 1: the newspapers make every golfer seem like just an unbelievably 1462 01:18:37,400 --> 01:18:40,840 Speaker 1: great golfer. Here even the best player is getting bagged 1463 01:18:40,840 --> 01:18:43,560 Speaker 1: because he buggy the seventeenth pole on Saturday and he 1464 01:18:43,640 --> 01:18:45,160 Speaker 1: really should have been to in front that at one 1465 01:18:45,200 --> 01:18:46,920 Speaker 1: in front. That really wasn't a very good effort, you know, 1466 01:18:46,960 --> 01:18:48,880 Speaker 1: whereas the US is how good is this golf? To 1467 01:18:49,120 --> 01:18:51,200 Speaker 1: what an unbelievable chance for these guys are black, you know. 1468 01:18:51,320 --> 01:18:53,600 Speaker 1: So it's just a different perspective we have. But it 1469 01:18:53,760 --> 01:18:59,240 Speaker 1: keeps everybody being a pretty decent bolk, you know. Um yeah, 1470 01:18:59,280 --> 01:19:01,479 Speaker 1: I'm men, look at Am and Leashman and Scotty, I 1471 01:19:01,560 --> 01:19:04,720 Speaker 1: mean and they're all pretty um, they're good humans to 1472 01:19:04,760 --> 01:19:07,120 Speaker 1: be around, no matter what they've done in the game. 1473 01:19:07,160 --> 01:19:10,720 Speaker 1: You know. There. I mean, Scotty has been incredible since 1474 01:19:10,760 --> 01:19:12,479 Speaker 1: he's one of the Masters. He's been back to Australia 1475 01:19:12,520 --> 01:19:14,600 Speaker 1: every year, there's been tournaments. He plays more than he 1476 01:19:14,680 --> 01:19:18,760 Speaker 1: needs to at in these modern worlds a massively discounted rate. 1477 01:19:18,840 --> 01:19:23,559 Speaker 1: He basically comes because he just he knows, like Clay says, 1478 01:19:23,600 --> 01:19:27,439 Speaker 1: like Tomo used to do, golf needs in Australia, golf needs. 1479 01:19:27,479 --> 01:19:29,160 Speaker 1: Adams got to come play and he feels that and 1480 01:19:29,240 --> 01:19:30,719 Speaker 1: he does it, you know, and most of the odsies 1481 01:19:30,720 --> 01:19:35,160 Speaker 1: are like that. So um, I think that side of 1482 01:19:35,200 --> 01:19:39,040 Speaker 1: things is all their mates. If you grow up around 1483 01:19:39,040 --> 01:19:44,759 Speaker 1: Australians very long, they'll keep you in your place. Voice 1484 01:19:44,800 --> 01:19:48,559 Speaker 1: of experience. Well, and he's what a mentor just sort 1485 01:19:48,600 --> 01:19:50,720 Speaker 1: of from mentoring, but just mentoring on a high level. 1486 01:19:50,800 --> 01:19:52,920 Speaker 1: He's like sort of like the godfather of Australian golf 1487 01:19:52,960 --> 01:19:56,960 Speaker 1: a little bit like he's um the one you ask 1488 01:19:57,000 --> 01:19:59,880 Speaker 1: if you've got any questions, and he to this day 1489 01:20:00,040 --> 01:20:01,960 Speaker 1: he is playing golf. These are all these days he 1490 01:20:02,000 --> 01:20:06,360 Speaker 1: plays golf. He's playing golfers with juniors, kids, anybody who 1491 01:20:06,400 --> 01:20:10,200 Speaker 1: loves golf, you'll play with him. You know, girls, guys, kids, 1492 01:20:10,520 --> 01:20:13,559 Speaker 1: growing ups, old people. He just plays golf. You're into golf, 1493 01:20:13,600 --> 01:20:15,720 Speaker 1: he'll go play with him. So there, he's had an 1494 01:20:15,760 --> 01:20:21,840 Speaker 1: incredible influence across sort of the elite golf landscape. Um, 1495 01:20:22,800 --> 01:20:24,800 Speaker 1: since he came back from Europe. So he came back 1496 01:20:24,840 --> 01:20:27,120 Speaker 1: from Europe. I think in the he stopped playing Europe 1497 01:20:27,160 --> 01:20:32,160 Speaker 1: sort of thing, maybe ninety eight and ever since then 1498 01:20:32,240 --> 01:20:34,599 Speaker 1: he's just been floating around Australia playing golfer golf courses 1499 01:20:34,640 --> 01:20:36,760 Speaker 1: and good golfers have been attracted to sort of playing 1500 01:20:36,800 --> 01:20:42,040 Speaker 1: with him. And he's the wisdom and experience and sort 1501 01:20:42,040 --> 01:20:47,320 Speaker 1: of pragmatic, no nonsense way he goes about explaining golf 1502 01:20:47,360 --> 01:20:48,960 Speaker 1: for these people. It's a little bit like Tomo. Mean 1503 01:20:49,000 --> 01:20:52,360 Speaker 1: Tomo was, there's only one Tomo. Tomo made a complicated thing, 1504 01:20:52,479 --> 01:20:58,120 Speaker 1: very very simple. Um. He made Peter Peter Fowler just 1505 01:20:58,200 --> 01:21:00,719 Speaker 1: a quick story about to Peter. It was a great 1506 01:21:00,840 --> 01:21:03,800 Speaker 1: young Australian player. Ended up playing well, still playing seniors 1507 01:21:03,840 --> 01:21:06,040 Speaker 1: tour in Europe and stuff. But he won the Australian 1508 01:21:06,120 --> 01:21:11,000 Speaker 1: Open I think three or eight eight three um, and 1509 01:21:11,080 --> 01:21:12,559 Speaker 1: he was about to head off to Europe or something, 1510 01:21:12,600 --> 01:21:15,639 Speaker 1: and he calls Peter and he goes, Peter, I really 1511 01:21:15,680 --> 01:21:17,600 Speaker 1: want to have a good year in Europe, and I 1512 01:21:17,680 --> 01:21:20,639 Speaker 1: want to sort of play well, and I just really 1513 01:21:20,680 --> 01:21:22,680 Speaker 1: think I need to get better. And what do you 1514 01:21:22,720 --> 01:21:25,040 Speaker 1: think I need to do to be a better professional golfer? Tom, 1515 01:21:25,080 --> 01:21:31,920 Speaker 1: I said, shoot lower scores. And that was it. But fundamentally, 1516 01:21:31,960 --> 01:21:34,240 Speaker 1: when you and you just think that's ridiculous, how rude 1517 01:21:34,320 --> 01:21:35,960 Speaker 1: is out, that's not a very good lesson. But the 1518 01:21:36,040 --> 01:21:37,960 Speaker 1: longer I've played golf, the more I realized that that's 1519 01:21:38,000 --> 01:21:40,040 Speaker 1: actually the only lesson you movement, just go and work 1520 01:21:40,080 --> 01:21:44,160 Speaker 1: out how to shoot lower scores. Um. That's how simple 1521 01:21:44,200 --> 01:21:45,840 Speaker 1: he viewed golf. It's like, well, if you're not going 1522 01:21:45,920 --> 01:21:47,760 Speaker 1: very well, just have have a few shots less and 1523 01:21:47,800 --> 01:21:51,360 Speaker 1: you'll be doing better, you know. Fantastic And Clacks is 1524 01:21:51,360 --> 01:21:53,080 Speaker 1: a little bit a little bit like he's a little 1525 01:21:53,080 --> 01:21:54,760 Speaker 1: bit like that with these guys. He doesn't let them 1526 01:21:54,800 --> 01:21:59,040 Speaker 1: complicate it. They keep it simple. Um. And if you 1527 01:21:59,080 --> 01:22:01,120 Speaker 1: spend any time around him, you'll lock golf more at 1528 01:22:01,120 --> 01:22:02,479 Speaker 1: the end of the day than you do at the stop. 1529 01:22:03,800 --> 01:22:06,800 Speaker 1: You can't end it any better than that, So, uh, 1530 01:22:07,439 --> 01:22:11,519 Speaker 1: great stuff. Um, all right, let's been another need of 1531 01:22:11,640 --> 01:22:15,559 Speaker 1: fourth Mike Clayton, fantastic guests we have, we have more coming, 1532 01:22:15,760 --> 01:22:19,080 Speaker 1: so thanks for listening. Um, I'm going to sign off 1533 01:22:19,160 --> 01:22:22,120 Speaker 1: for Michael Bambery or Jeff Ogilvie and Mike Clayton is 1534 01:22:22,160 --> 01:22:24,280 Speaker 1: salent ship Neck. But we appreciate you've been part of 1535 01:22:24,320 --> 01:22:27,559 Speaker 1: this podcast out there wherever you are, and well we'll 1536 01:22:27,640 --> 01:22:32,320 Speaker 1: keep bringing them to you. That's the end. Mm hmmm, 1537 01:22:35,600 --> 01:22:39,320 Speaker 1: h oh my god. It's a dangerous group here