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Speaker 1: Heads up. This series contains graphic descriptions of violence.

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Speaker 2: I want you to tell me. We're gonna go all

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Speaker 2: the way back in this case. We're gonna go all

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Speaker 2: the way back to July the thirtieth or two thousand

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Speaker 2: and I want you to start third and tell me

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Speaker 2: exactly how you got involved in this case and what happened.

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Speaker 3: Got involved in this case is due to the fact

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Speaker 3: I was the last person to see Jaska alive.

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Speaker 1: Nearly ten years after the trial and conviction of Quincy Cross,

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Speaker 1: Venetia's Doublefield sat down with a private investigator.

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Speaker 2: We don't do interviews like other people doing. There will

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Speaker 2: be no turning off those cameras unless it's an emergency

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Speaker 2: or unless you have to go to a bathroom.

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Speaker 1: This is a familiar scene, Venetia sitting at a table

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Speaker 1: with her hands on her lap, her anxious eyes cast downward,

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Speaker 1: answering yet another question about the murder of Jessica Curran.

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Speaker 2: Anything to say in this room about this case is

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Speaker 2: going to be on this tape. They understand.

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Speaker 1: The first time police interviewed Venetia, she was sixteen years old,

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Speaker 1: going on seventeen and four years Venetsha maintained that on

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Speaker 1: a Saturday night in the summer of two thousand, she

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Speaker 1: hung out with Jessica, played cards and had some drinks.

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Speaker 3: And then Tom passing by. We didn't realize it until

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Speaker 3: it was like fifteen twenty minutes to two, so we

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Speaker 3: got up, we lay.

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Speaker 1: Off, They said goodbye, never to see each other again.

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Speaker 1: That story changed though in two thousand and seven, when

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Speaker 1: Venetia became one of the state's main witnesses and implicated

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Speaker 1: Quinn he crossed as the ringleader in Jessica's brutal murder.

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Speaker 1: But now Venetia says that story, the one used in court,

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Speaker 1: is a lie.

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Speaker 3: They literally made me say that I was there at

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Speaker 3: jessica curse. It's the crime scene when Jessica's being killed.

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Speaker 3: They literally made me say that I took part in it.

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Speaker 3: They literally made me say that I took a match

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Speaker 3: and struck and threw it on her. They made me

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Speaker 3: say that I pore guests on her. They made me

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Speaker 3: say that I took party into having sexual contacts with

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Speaker 3: her when she was already dead, and everything.

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Speaker 1: A lie that she fabricated. When agents with the Kentucky

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Speaker 1: Bureau of Investigation, the KBI took over as lead investigators

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Speaker 1: for the case.

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Speaker 2: This the KD I threatened in any kind of way

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Speaker 2: in this case, you stay in.

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Speaker 3: Tell me how they had told me that I did

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Speaker 3: not come forward and tell the truth on him killed Jessica,

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Speaker 3: that they would make sure that I've been the rest

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Speaker 3: of my life in prison. I will never see my family,

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Speaker 3: my friends, the Yale, all kinds of stuff. And yes,

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Speaker 3: I'm a meeting. Yes I was wrong because I should

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Speaker 3: have thought about everything before I said what I say

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Speaker 3: it and at that time I was gullible and I

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Speaker 3: wouldn't really focus.

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Speaker 4: Right.

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Speaker 1: I've spoken to Venetia and she also told me this.

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Speaker 1: So that makes two prosecution witnesses recanting, first Rosie and

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Speaker 1: now Venetia. The dominoes that make up the state's case

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Speaker 1: seem to be falling. However, there is one key person

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Speaker 1: who made the prosecution's charges and convictions possible.

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Speaker 5: Victoria, don't you got paid to make up a whole

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Speaker 5: story just to get rid of this case.

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Speaker 1: Rosie's sister Victoria Yah called well and get money?

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Speaker 6: Ready, Yeah, and get money? Yes, you got paid to

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Speaker 6: do this case. Yes, she got paid to do it.

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Speaker 1: And what Victoria will go on to say involves more

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Speaker 1: than some threats or the scheming of citizen investigators. Susan Gallbreath,

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Speaker 1: it implicates law enforcement and not only the investigators with

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Speaker 1: the Kentucky Attorney General's Office, but one of the state's

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Speaker 1: top prosecutors as well. This is Graves County, Chapter five,

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Speaker 1: the receipts. At the end of last episode, you heard

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Speaker 1: victorious sister Rosie Christ telling me she'd been coerced into lying.

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Speaker 1: But Rosie says it wasn't only threats. Law enforcement also

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Speaker 1: persuaded her with money.

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Speaker 6: They paid me a hundred dollar bill to call people.

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Speaker 1: It's Detective Sam Steger with the Kentechta State Police. Today's

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Speaker 1: date is June fifth, two thousand and six. One of

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Speaker 1: those people was her cousin. We will be making a

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Speaker 1: phone call to tamer Caldwell.

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Speaker 5: Kyle Tammery and if she knew anything about Quincy being

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Speaker 5: a blob in this case, we'll give you a hundred dollars.

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Speaker 5: And she says, yes, Hello, Hey, Nana, is Tamra home.

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Speaker 3: Talk?

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Speaker 4: No?

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Speaker 1: Can I talk to her?

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Speaker 6: I said, Tama.

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Speaker 5: These uh officers have been asking me lately if you

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Speaker 5: knew anything about Quincy Cross his involvement in the career

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Speaker 5: in case, anything about him being I knew you had knew.

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Speaker 7: That Quincy was involved in a murder.

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Speaker 6: I ain't know about nobody else.

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Speaker 1: She ain't hurt nothing yet.

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Speaker 6: Yeah, she said, yeah I heard, Yeah, I know.

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Speaker 1: Tamra doesn't say anything else about the case. They go

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Speaker 1: on to talk about a family gathering over the weekend.

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Speaker 5: Did you see what was bringing the kids bad down

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Speaker 5: on Saturday?

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Speaker 1: But Rosie says that didn't matter to law enforcement.

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Speaker 6: Yeah, I know. It was enough for them, and.

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Speaker 1: A few dollars were enough for Rosie to betray her

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Speaker 1: own family. Those weren't great years for Rosie. You mentioned

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Speaker 1: you were on drugs back then, and you would have

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Speaker 1: said anything for one hundred buck.

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Speaker 6: Yeah, it was oh crack okay back to you. Sure was.

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Speaker 8: They really tapped into people who had a lot to lose,

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Speaker 8: but also a lot to gain.

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Speaker 1: Miranda Hellman again the attorney for the Kentucky Innocent's Project.

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Speaker 1: She says law enforcement took advantage of people.

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Speaker 8: People kind of living on the periphery, maybe even folks

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Speaker 8: who didn't have stable homes, who had young children and

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Speaker 8: were really young children themselves.

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Speaker 1: Like Venetia and Rosie and Victoria, who was only fifteen

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Speaker 1: at the time of the murder and around twenty one

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Speaker 1: when she reached out to Rosie saying they could make

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Speaker 1: some money.

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Speaker 9: Yeah yeah, and if I have her, she was lost money.

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Speaker 7: Let me.

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Speaker 1: Rosie told this to the same private investigator you heard earlier.

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Speaker 3: She said, I know himself.

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Speaker 1: Miranda says Victoria had been financially struggling at the time.

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Speaker 9: So they really tapped into two things.

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Speaker 8: I think they played good cop, bad cop with her

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Speaker 8: and making threats that if you aren't gonna work with us,

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Speaker 8: you could lose your kids, but then also giving her incentives.

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Speaker 1: At one point there was a nine thousand dollars reward

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Speaker 1: for any tips that helped solve the murder, but I

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Speaker 1: haven't been able to confirm if anyone ever claimed the cash.

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Speaker 1: Still money or the promise of financial gain has always

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Speaker 1: loomed over this case.

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Speaker 8: I was hearing rumors of hey, witnesses were paid off,

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Speaker 8: there were some bad cops involved, and as I started

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Speaker 8: to dig into the discovery.

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Speaker 9: All those things really played out to be true.

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Speaker 1: At one point in her investigation, Miranda visited with Venetia.

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Speaker 1: She was in jail on an unrelated charge. At first,

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Speaker 1: Venisia didn't want to talk. But two hours later Miranda

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Speaker 1: walked out with a full story similar to the one

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Speaker 1: you heard her tell the private investigator earlier. They forced

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Speaker 1: me to say that Tamara has something to do with it.

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Speaker 3: They forced me to say that she forgets something to

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Speaker 3: do with it.

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Speaker 1: And she says she didn't even meet Quincy until around

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Speaker 1: the time he was dating Tamra, a few years after

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Speaker 1: the murder.

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Speaker 3: No, I didn't even know who was good because cousin,

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Speaker 3: I'm like, oh, is he yeah?

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Speaker 1: Venesha is referring to a conversation she had with Susan Galbreath. Remember,

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Speaker 1: early on in her investigation, Susan kept pushing Venetia to

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Speaker 1: give up Quincy's name. You heard a secret recording from

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Speaker 1: Susan where Venesha sounds confused and replies.

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Speaker 7: Well, what, I don't get going quiet for that.

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Speaker 1: Venetia is in her forties, now less wiry, and her

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Speaker 1: giant eyes, once filled with fear and defeat, are now

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Speaker 1: gleaming with determination as she speaks about her experience as

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Speaker 1: a witness in this case. She's opened up to private investigators,

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Speaker 1: to the Innocence Project, my team, and to me, And

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Speaker 1: on top of blaming law enforcement. Venetia confirms what so

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Speaker 1: many people have told me that Susan played a big

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Speaker 1: role in this case.

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Speaker 6: Although she's diseased.

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Speaker 10: Let her recipes, but she's another reason why a my

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Speaker 10: life got messed up as well.

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Speaker 1: Here Venetia is sitting with her mom chatting to one

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Speaker 1: of my producers, and Vanisha doesn't talk about Susan with bitterness.

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Speaker 1: Susan and Vanisha's mom were actually once friends.

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Speaker 10: Susan used to do parties that I have surity or

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Speaker 10: whatever and invite mom and my uncle and all them

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Speaker 10: to their parties.

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Speaker 1: But then Jessica Kurrn was killed, Jeremy Adams was charged,

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Speaker 1: and the rest is history.

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Speaker 10: She was good friends with Jeremy Adams's mother, Donna, and

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Speaker 10: Donna was like girlfriends or whatever, and she was helping

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Speaker 10: Donna close Jeremy's name, which is I mean, I understand

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Speaker 10: that's respectful, but at the same time, you still incriminated

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Speaker 10: a lot of people.

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Speaker 6: You still put a lot of people's name in it.

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Speaker 7: They didn't have nothing to do with it.

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Speaker 1: And there was another motive, Venetia says, a much simpler one.

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Speaker 3: Susan Cabert did it for the faith and for the money.

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Speaker 1: Susan did get her Outstanding Citizen Award from the Kentucky

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Speaker 1: Attorney General's Office for her role in helping solve the

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Speaker 1: current case. Tom Mangold wrote articles about her and her investigation.

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Speaker 1: The BBC aired a radio documentary touting her accomplishment, and

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Speaker 1: countless movie offers followed. In the emails obtained by the

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Speaker 1: Kentucky Innocence Project, Susan and Tom discuss splitting any money

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Speaker 1: fifty to fifty, though a feature film never materialized. And

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Speaker 1: I can't knock Susan, Victoria or anyone else for being

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Speaker 1: motivated by money. In this case, people are allowed to

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Speaker 1: have desires. That's not a crime. The problem comes when

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Speaker 1: the people with power, the state and law enforcement, take

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Speaker 1: advantage of people's weaknesses to get what they want. Miranda

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Speaker 1: says law enforcement ran with Susan Goallbres's theory and paid

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Speaker 1: Victoria Caldwell to back that story up in order to

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Speaker 1: close the case. And it was more than a measly

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Speaker 1: one hundred dollars much more. When Miranda Hellman started going

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Speaker 1: through footage of Quincy's trial, she says she noticed something odd.

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Speaker 8: There were many cross examination questions about were you paid?

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Speaker 1: The defense was asked asking these questions to witnesses like

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Speaker 1: Victoria Caldwell.

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Speaker 8: You know, were you paid to be here today? Were

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Speaker 8: you paid for your testimony? Did you receive money from

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Speaker 8: the government? Did they pay for your meals? Did they

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Speaker 8: pay for your clothes?

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Speaker 2: What else did the KBI pay for you besides your

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Speaker 2: rent and your moving expansions?

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Speaker 11: The the utilities, the utilities.

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Speaker 6: Food.

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Speaker 1: No Morendus's Quincy's attorneys also asked the KBI agents whether

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Speaker 1: they paid for the meals and clothes of their main witness.

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Speaker 8: And a lot of the answers to those questions were no, what.

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Speaker 5: Other expenses were paid besides utilities and rent and moving?

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Speaker 4: Off the top of my head, sir, I believe it

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Speaker 4: was all the buried, you know. I'm sure at one

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Speaker 4: point in time we had to give her something need

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Speaker 4: so well, I thought.

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Speaker 8: That was strange that these questions kept coming up, And

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Speaker 8: then I stumbled across the set of maybe two hundred pages.

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Speaker 1: Of receipts, receipts that, according to Miranda, the defense never

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Speaker 1: used in their cross examination and that showed law enforcement

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Speaker 1: was being untruthful under oath. When Victoria made contact with

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Speaker 1: Susan and first met the agents with the KBI in

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Speaker 1: two thousand and seven. She was living in California. Then

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Speaker 1: around March of that year, law enforcement moved Victoria into

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Speaker 1: witness protection in North Carolina because she claimed to be

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Speaker 1: afraid for her life.

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Speaker 8: Also sort of did the same thing with Venetia, but

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Speaker 8: they didn't really pay for nearly as many of her expenses.

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Speaker 8: They actually held her in jail while they held Victoria

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Speaker 8: in a paid condo.

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Speaker 1: According to a court filing from the Kentucky Innocence Project,

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Speaker 1: the Office of the Attorney General and the Kentucky State

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Speaker 1: Police paid Victoria from February two thousand and seven to

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Speaker 1: January two thousand and eight.

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Speaker 9: She collected all of her receipts for all the meals

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Speaker 9: she ate, the food she bought, the clothes she bought,

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Speaker 9: the you know, living expenses, turned those in and then

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Speaker 9: the Attorney General's office would issue an authorization to pay

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Speaker 9: funds to her.

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Speaker 1: Many of these receipts were filed under the state's witness

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Speaker 1: protection program. I've gone through them as well, and at

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Speaker 1: first glance they appear pretty standard a gas bill, groceries,

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Speaker 1: but then they start to branch.

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Speaker 8: Out, and so I started digging, and we found that

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Speaker 8: they included nights out bowling, going to movie theater, going

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Speaker 8: out to eat, and it even included Margarita's and beers

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Speaker 8: at restaurants. It included phone cards, clothing items for her kids,

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Speaker 8: all of her gas, getting her car repairs done, new tires,

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Speaker 8: and then some really odd items.

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Speaker 1: There was one receipt for Claire's accessories and another one

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Speaker 1: from a sex shop, and.

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Speaker 8: Then we dug into the receipt and it appeared to

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Speaker 8: be a vibrator that she had purchased at a one

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Speaker 8: of those video stores in North Carolina.

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Speaker 1: According to Kentucky law, the Attorney General's office should reimburse

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Speaker 1: costs that are deemed reasonable and necessary for the protection

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Speaker 1: of a witness. It includes expenses for things like meals

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Speaker 1: and child's care, as far as I can tell, though

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Speaker 1: a vibrator is not on the list of approved items.

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Speaker 1: In total, the Kentucky Innocence Project found that Victoria Caldwell

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Speaker 1: was paid at least seventeen thousand dollars in one year.

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Speaker 8: She was living on the state dime pretty freely and

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Speaker 8: really nicely for an extended period of time, while realistically

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Speaker 8: she had been charged as complicit in this murder and

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Speaker 8: should have been sitting in jail next to Venetia. They

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Speaker 8: knew they could not make this case without her, and

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Speaker 8: they had to do everything they could hold it together.

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Speaker 8: So it just really looks to me and that this

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Speaker 8: is just purely paying your witness to come in and

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Speaker 8: testify in the way that you want her to testify,

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Speaker 8: and also keep her under your exclusive control, hidden away

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Speaker 8: in a totally different state to make sure that very

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Speaker 8: fragile narrative doesn't fall apart.

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Speaker 1: Miranda is making the case to me and the courts

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Speaker 1: that law enforcement committed perjury at Quincy's trial when they

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Speaker 1: concealed the extent of the payments they made to Victoria.

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Speaker 1: And not only that, the top prosecutors with the state's

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Speaker 1: Attorney General's office enabled those lies.

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Speaker 8: We have law enforcement officers and special prosecutors from our

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Speaker 8: head prosecution body coming into a trial saying we absolutely

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Speaker 8: didn't do anything that would put this case in jeopardy.

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Speaker 8: We did not pay that witness. It was just for

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Speaker 8: her protection. Everything was above board, and of course a

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Speaker 8: aujury here's that they would have no reason to not

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Speaker 8: believe it.

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Speaker 9: But the proof was sitting there the whole time.

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Speaker 1: According to the Kentucky Innocence Project, this is a clear

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Speaker 1: due process violation and is yet another reason Quincy Cross's

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Speaker 1: conviction should be vacated. My team has reached out to

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Speaker 1: the Office of the Attorney General several times, as well

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Speaker 1: as the lead prosecutor at Quincy's trial, Barbara Manswale. We

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Speaker 1: have not heard back, but we did hear from Victoria Caldwell.

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Speaker 1: That's after the break. I've reached out to Victoria a

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Speaker 1: few times and haven't heard back, but Miranda was a

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Speaker 1: to track her down.

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Speaker 12: Miranda Hellman August fourth, twenty twenty three, twelve fifty eight

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Speaker 12: pm in Cincinnati, Ohio, meeting Kenneth Nixon to go speak

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Speaker 12: to Victoria Caldwell.

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Speaker 1: Miranda found her living in Ohio and she brought along

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Speaker 1: Ken Nixon. Ken is from Detroit and he spent sixteen

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Speaker 1: years in prison for a crime he did not commit.

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Speaker 1: He was exonerated a few years ago and now runs

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Speaker 1: his own organization helping exoneries get on their feet. Ken

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Speaker 1: knows what it's like to deal with the legal system

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Speaker 1: hell bent unscrewing over people without power. And I've known

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Speaker 1: Kem for years. He's tall, handsome and greets everyone with

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Speaker 1: a charming smile.

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Speaker 12: Hi, how are you?

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Speaker 13: I'm good looking for Victory.

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Speaker 9: Yeah, how you doing?

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Speaker 1: Ken is exactly the kind of guy you want around

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Speaker 1: to put people at ease.

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Speaker 3: If you wouldn't mind, we'd like to have com.

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Speaker 1: Victoria is nearing middle age, though she still looks baby faced.

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Speaker 1: Her black hairline is showing peaks of gray.

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Speaker 6: I'm acting this.

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Speaker 7: He'll now to talk about this cave.

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Speaker 1: Off the bat. Victoria says that Barbara Whalley, the lead prosecutor,

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Speaker 1: called her and told her not to talk about the case.

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Speaker 3: Barbara Wayley, I mean, do you feel comfortable? Name is

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Speaker 3: the names or somebody we need to talk to? Do?

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Speaker 1: We need to get it clear it with them first?

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Speaker 14: Oh?

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Speaker 1: Man, I call him, but Victoria takes out her phone

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Speaker 1: and dials first. The person she calls bab O'Neil. Hey, Bob,

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Speaker 1: one of the agents with the Kentucky Bureau of Investigation

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Speaker 1: who interrogated persons of interest at the Drury in in suites.

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Speaker 15: They want to talk about the cave.

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Speaker 1: Victoria talks to O'Neill with familiarity. She's on a first

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Speaker 1: named basis with him. She calls jess because killing from

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Speaker 1: over two decades ago the case like they speak about

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Speaker 1: it often. O'Neil advises Victoria against saying anything, but she adds.

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Speaker 7: He said, once did I see the.

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Speaker 13: Told us what?

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Speaker 1: Once Ken and Miranda leave the residence, O'Neill will talk

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Speaker 1: to them. So they leave.

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Speaker 6: And Ken calls him, hello, I speak to Bob.

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Speaker 1: O'Neil sounds skeptical but friendly, and he tells Ken that

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Speaker 1: Victoria has had to deal with a lot.

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Speaker 15: She she has faced a lot of trauma in her life,

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Speaker 15: even before that, before that murder took place, which kind

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Speaker 15: of the way she was brought.

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Speaker 12: Up and stepped.

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Speaker 1: And O'Neil says he still gives Victoria advice now and then, is.

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Speaker 6: That why you told her not to talk to me today?

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Speaker 3: Yeah?

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Speaker 15: I told her, yeah my opinion. I told her because

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Speaker 15: you didn't go.

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Speaker 1: But they were determined. And a few weeks later, once

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Speaker 1: things cooled off, Ten messaged Victory on Facebook. Then he

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Speaker 1: called Miranda.

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Speaker 12: All right, he just looked at my message. I just

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Speaker 12: centered my number.

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Speaker 1: Miranda recorded the conversation and we've edited the call for

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Speaker 1: length and clarity.

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Speaker 9: Right now, okay, all right, I'm muting again.

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Speaker 1: Victoria wastes no time getting to business.

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Speaker 11: I was over there.

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Speaker 6: I never witnessed anything. Okay, how did they get you

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Speaker 6: to say what?

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Speaker 3: They got you to say?

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Speaker 13: What happened?

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Speaker 11: They told me they'll just pick a needle on my

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Speaker 11: arm on the elevator at the jury it was called

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Speaker 11: Jurianne and Paducah, Kentucky.

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Speaker 6: Oh make my statement? Did they specifically tell you what

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Speaker 6: to say?

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Speaker 12: Is that how your story came about?

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Speaker 11: Yes, one officer, multiple officers, multiple from the Sutherland to

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Speaker 11: Lee Wise, the main one.

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Speaker 1: Victoria is implicating a prosecutor with the Attorney General's Office

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Speaker 1: and agent Lee Wise with the KBI, O'Neill's partner.

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Speaker 3: Okay, how do you know question?

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Speaker 6: I don't know him.

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Speaker 11: I've never know him a day of my life.

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Speaker 13: How do you know his name?

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Speaker 6: They gave it to me.

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Speaker 12: How do you know what he looked like?

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Speaker 1: They showed me? And she doesn't stop there. She tells

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Speaker 1: Ken that the KBI not only had her lie, they

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Speaker 1: helped fabricate evidence.

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Speaker 3: There was some mention about a diary.

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Speaker 5: Can you give me a little more details about it?

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Speaker 11: I wrote it in the same day they came.

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Speaker 1: They're referring to the diary Victoria read from a trial

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Speaker 1: where she detailed the aftermath of the murder along with

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Speaker 1: the belt. The prosecution used this diary to show that

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Speaker 1: Quincy and the others committed the crime, and Victoria is

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Speaker 1: saying she made it up that she didn't actually write

388
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Speaker 1: the diary entries. At the time of Jessica's death in

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Speaker 1: August of two thousand, then, Victoria confirms she's still in

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Speaker 1: touch with law enforcement, specifically bab O'Neil from the KBI.

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Speaker 11: He's always giving me money.

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Speaker 3: Okay, when you save money? What kind of money?

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Speaker 15: Are we talking like a couple of hundred bucks just

394
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Speaker 15: to get by, or we're talking like a couple of

395
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Speaker 15: grand to help more.

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Speaker 6: Than a couple of grand But he's always taken care

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Speaker 6: of me.

398
00:24:35,840 --> 00:24:36,359
Speaker 2: Is it cash?

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Speaker 11: Check?

400
00:24:37,720 --> 00:24:37,760
Speaker 3: No?

401
00:24:38,040 --> 00:24:38,359
Speaker 15: Cash?

402
00:24:39,160 --> 00:24:40,919
Speaker 11: Always cash?

403
00:24:41,359 --> 00:24:43,320
Speaker 13: You meet in public places or he comes to you?

404
00:24:43,359 --> 00:24:43,920
Speaker 3: How does that work?

405
00:24:44,000 --> 00:24:44,119
Speaker 4: Oh?

406
00:24:44,200 --> 00:24:45,040
Speaker 11: He comes to my house?

407
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Speaker 4: Oh wow?

408
00:24:47,359 --> 00:24:49,240
Speaker 11: What do you think their position is?

409
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Speaker 3: They're trying to keep you quiet? Is that the cansire?

410
00:24:52,080 --> 00:24:54,639
Speaker 11: Yeah, they want me tell the same story, and I

411
00:24:54,880 --> 00:24:57,159
Speaker 11: refuse to tell the same story. And I don't want

412
00:24:57,200 --> 00:25:00,800
Speaker 11: to keep telling her. If I can't remember, I remember lies.

413
00:25:00,840 --> 00:25:02,760
Speaker 11: You can remember the truth. To tell a lie, right.

414
00:25:03,320 --> 00:25:05,520
Speaker 11: I can't remember everything I said, so.

415
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Speaker 1: Yes, Bob O'Neil did not want to speak with me

416
00:25:12,280 --> 00:25:15,200
Speaker 1: for this piece, but he told me he stands by

417
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Speaker 1: the convictions by the tactics used by the KBI, and

418
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Speaker 1: that he denies all of Victoria's claims. Leewise, the other

419
00:25:24,040 --> 00:25:27,720
Speaker 1: agent with KBI, has not responded to my request for

420
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Speaker 1: an interview. I don't know why Victoria is so casually

421
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Speaker 1: admitting this to Ken, and I have no way of

422
00:25:36,920 --> 00:25:41,400
Speaker 1: telling if she's being truthful, but I do know that

423
00:25:41,440 --> 00:25:45,600
Speaker 1: she likes to spend stories. The one she's told about

424
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Speaker 1: the death of Jessica Curran has changed more times than

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Speaker 1: I can count, from the very first time she spoke

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Speaker 1: to Mayfield Police in two thousand until now, and still

427
00:25:57,359 --> 00:26:02,760
Speaker 1: law enforcement made Victoria their star witness, and they chose

428
00:26:02,800 --> 00:26:06,400
Speaker 1: to use one of her many stories to put Quincy

429
00:26:06,480 --> 00:26:10,359
Speaker 1: Cross in prison for life and to convict Jeff Burton

430
00:26:10,640 --> 00:26:19,400
Speaker 1: and Victoria's own cousin, tim Or Caldwell. Victoria goes on

431
00:26:19,440 --> 00:26:23,600
Speaker 1: to make many many more accusations and claims to Ken,

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Speaker 1: but I'm not going to share those because they're damning

433
00:26:28,119 --> 00:26:31,480
Speaker 1: and could all just be made up. And the reason

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00:26:31,520 --> 00:26:36,600
Speaker 1: for Victoria's supposed lies only gets more bizarre.

435
00:26:38,000 --> 00:26:41,600
Speaker 11: I am criminate your cousin though, as you killed my grandma,

436
00:26:43,640 --> 00:26:47,359
Speaker 11: and I said that to everybody that interviewed that they

437
00:26:47,359 --> 00:26:52,080
Speaker 11: wouldn't put it on record. She pushed my grandma down

438
00:26:52,080 --> 00:26:54,359
Speaker 11: the spears and broke her hit and my grandma died.

439
00:26:56,160 --> 00:27:01,080
Speaker 3: Oh wow, So basically you're in her in this case?

440
00:27:01,280 --> 00:27:02,720
Speaker 4: Was your get back?

441
00:27:03,520 --> 00:27:03,720
Speaker 10: Yeah?

442
00:27:06,160 --> 00:27:09,960
Speaker 7: Let me get the story straight. My mother died at

443
00:27:10,000 --> 00:27:14,159
Speaker 7: Lord's Hospital during surgery. Tamra had nothing to do with

444
00:27:14,200 --> 00:27:14,800
Speaker 7: her dying.

445
00:27:15,680 --> 00:27:20,240
Speaker 1: This is Brenda Jackson, Tamra Caltell's mom and Victoria's aunt.

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00:27:21,080 --> 00:27:23,760
Speaker 7: My mother was getting a stint put in her neck.

447
00:27:24,280 --> 00:27:27,440
Speaker 7: She was a diabetic and she was getting a stint

448
00:27:27,480 --> 00:27:31,080
Speaker 7: put it in her heart build Her heart stopped meeting

449
00:27:31,160 --> 00:27:34,120
Speaker 7: on the table and that's where my mother died.

450
00:27:34,200 --> 00:27:34,360
Speaker 14: It.

451
00:27:35,840 --> 00:27:38,159
Speaker 1: We got a copy of the death certificate and it

452
00:27:38,359 --> 00:27:44,240
Speaker 1: matches Brenda's story. Her mom died from cardiac arrest natural causes,

453
00:27:44,960 --> 00:27:49,840
Speaker 1: not an accident. At one point, Victoria told police her

454
00:27:49,840 --> 00:27:52,320
Speaker 1: mom was supportive of her going to law enforcement with

455
00:27:52,359 --> 00:27:55,800
Speaker 1: her story, and Brenda thinks it could have been because

456
00:27:55,800 --> 00:27:59,960
Speaker 1: her sister, Victoria's mother, Wanda had some resentment.

457
00:28:01,280 --> 00:28:04,439
Speaker 7: I believe Wanda was jealous of me and my kids.

458
00:28:04,640 --> 00:28:07,120
Speaker 7: I really do, because my children and I we were

459
00:28:07,240 --> 00:28:10,560
Speaker 7: very close, every one of us. Wanda and her kids,

460
00:28:10,920 --> 00:28:11,439
Speaker 7: they were not.

461
00:28:15,119 --> 00:28:18,760
Speaker 1: Brenda lives in Mayfield in a small one story home

462
00:28:18,960 --> 00:28:22,480
Speaker 1: with little tomato plants outside baking in the sun.

463
00:28:23,200 --> 00:28:25,880
Speaker 7: And my son bought me this one and so far

464
00:28:25,880 --> 00:28:30,120
Speaker 7: I've got one off of it. Huh one?

465
00:28:30,720 --> 00:28:33,560
Speaker 1: Yeah, how many do you normally got?

466
00:28:33,560 --> 00:28:34,119
Speaker 7: Seven or eight?

467
00:28:36,160 --> 00:28:40,200
Speaker 1: Inside? Her home is adorned with porcelain angel figurines and

468
00:28:40,240 --> 00:28:42,560
Speaker 1: family pictures on the wood paneled wall.

469
00:28:43,000 --> 00:28:44,440
Speaker 6: Those four on the wall over.

470
00:28:44,280 --> 00:28:47,600
Speaker 1: There, Brenda points to ones of her four kids.

471
00:28:48,040 --> 00:28:52,760
Speaker 7: The top one is Damien, one after him is Tamra,

472
00:28:54,040 --> 00:28:55,240
Speaker 7: and then one after Tamora.

473
00:28:55,280 --> 00:28:59,400
Speaker 1: There's a lot of life pictured on those walls. Brenda

474
00:28:59,440 --> 00:29:01,200
Speaker 1: comes from a big family.

475
00:29:01,800 --> 00:29:05,280
Speaker 7: Well there was. There was ten of us those kids.

476
00:29:05,360 --> 00:29:08,800
Speaker 7: There was eight girls and two boys. And out of

477
00:29:09,120 --> 00:29:14,280
Speaker 7: ten of us, there's only three of us living now.

478
00:29:13,280 --> 00:29:19,280
Speaker 1: We were all close, except for her younger sister, Wanda,

479
00:29:19,680 --> 00:29:21,240
Speaker 1: Rosie and Victoria's mom.

480
00:29:21,640 --> 00:29:26,000
Speaker 7: Because Wanda was a tattletale everything and no matter what

481
00:29:26,040 --> 00:29:28,880
Speaker 7: we did, she would go and tell mom or my

482
00:29:28,960 --> 00:29:30,680
Speaker 7: oldest sister and we could.

483
00:29:30,640 --> 00:29:31,440
Speaker 3: Speak for it.

484
00:29:31,560 --> 00:29:35,040
Speaker 7: We get in trouble or she was still cigarets from

485
00:29:35,120 --> 00:29:37,560
Speaker 7: Mama and bring them to us and we would smoke

486
00:29:37,640 --> 00:29:39,880
Speaker 7: them and she would run in the house and tell

487
00:29:39,880 --> 00:29:40,280
Speaker 7: on us.

488
00:29:42,040 --> 00:29:44,720
Speaker 1: Brenda says they all teased Wanda, and they had the

489
00:29:44,840 --> 00:29:49,800
Speaker 1: kind of love hate relationship that only siblings do. Still,

490
00:29:50,200 --> 00:29:53,040
Speaker 1: they stayed tight over the years when they were both

491
00:29:53,040 --> 00:29:56,080
Speaker 1: single moms trying to make ends meet. They even moved

492
00:29:56,160 --> 00:30:00,200
Speaker 1: their families in together. Tamra remembers those times fallen.

493
00:30:00,960 --> 00:30:04,760
Speaker 5: Like fifteen kids, Yeah, and we all slipping like two beds.

494
00:30:05,040 --> 00:30:06,280
Speaker 6: I mean, it's not close. We were.

495
00:30:06,880 --> 00:30:10,840
Speaker 1: Tamra says she grew up inseparable from her cousins, including

496
00:30:10,920 --> 00:30:13,960
Speaker 1: Rosie and Victoria, who were just a few years younger.

497
00:30:14,560 --> 00:30:18,120
Speaker 6: Close. Close, yeah, I'm talking about mudpie. Close.

498
00:30:18,480 --> 00:30:21,360
Speaker 5: When you see mud pie make mud pies and go

499
00:30:21,440 --> 00:30:23,440
Speaker 5: into woods and do all that.

500
00:30:24,520 --> 00:30:25,280
Speaker 6: Just play together.

501
00:30:26,240 --> 00:30:30,800
Speaker 1: But as time passed, the cousins and the sisters grew distant.

502
00:30:31,400 --> 00:30:34,440
Speaker 1: While Brenda says she nurtured a close knit family with

503
00:30:34,480 --> 00:30:39,080
Speaker 1: her kids, Wanda couldn't settle down. She left Victoria to

504
00:30:39,160 --> 00:30:42,080
Speaker 1: be raised by her grandma and took Rosie with her

505
00:30:42,280 --> 00:30:43,440
Speaker 1: to help pay the bills.

506
00:30:44,000 --> 00:30:50,080
Speaker 7: Brenda says wherever she go, she would be sailing Rosie,

507
00:30:50,360 --> 00:30:50,920
Speaker 7: her daughter.

508
00:30:51,600 --> 00:30:54,640
Speaker 5: She said, maybe I'm gonna have to show you. Mommy's

509
00:30:54,720 --> 00:30:56,800
Speaker 5: gonna have to ask you this. You have to do threesomes.

510
00:30:56,800 --> 00:30:58,160
Speaker 5: We have to do threesomes.

511
00:30:58,720 --> 00:31:02,360
Speaker 1: Rosie tells me it's true's true that her mom sold

512
00:31:02,400 --> 00:31:05,120
Speaker 1: her for sex when she was just a little girl.

513
00:31:05,520 --> 00:31:06,960
Speaker 6: She said, it's gonna pay the bills.

514
00:31:07,520 --> 00:31:11,680
Speaker 1: Victoria has also said she suffered a similar fate. I've

515
00:31:11,680 --> 00:31:16,440
Speaker 1: reached out to Wanda and she's not replied. The family drama,

516
00:31:16,760 --> 00:31:21,160
Speaker 1: the alleged jealousy between sisters may be true, but it's

517
00:31:21,200 --> 00:31:24,640
Speaker 1: impossible for me to fact check. And as far as

518
00:31:24,680 --> 00:31:28,960
Speaker 1: the alleged abuse, Rosie actually told the KBI about it

519
00:31:29,240 --> 00:31:33,240
Speaker 1: during her interview in two thousand and seven. It's the

520
00:31:33,400 --> 00:31:36,400
Speaker 1: reason I'm even telling you about it in the first place.

521
00:31:37,280 --> 00:31:41,440
Speaker 1: Remember O'Neill told Ken Nixon on the phone that Victoria

522
00:31:41,520 --> 00:31:47,040
Speaker 1: had suffered a lot of trauma even before Jessica's death. Well,

523
00:31:47,280 --> 00:31:52,120
Speaker 1: this trauma would be exploited by law enforcement, including the KBI.

524
00:31:53,600 --> 00:31:56,280
Speaker 13: I one time my home life. Did you have Rosen

525
00:31:56,320 --> 00:31:59,600
Speaker 13: growing up? Let's say saw it at twelve start around

526
00:31:59,640 --> 00:32:02,880
Speaker 13: tea from ten years old to eighteen, and you you

527
00:32:03,040 --> 00:32:04,120
Speaker 13: stepped out on your own.

528
00:32:05,360 --> 00:32:09,840
Speaker 1: The agents used those stories to ingratiate themselves with the girls.

529
00:32:10,440 --> 00:32:12,960
Speaker 1: You can hear it in their interview tapes with Rosie.

530
00:32:13,320 --> 00:32:15,640
Speaker 15: Well, the only reason we're ask those questions is kind

531
00:32:15,640 --> 00:32:16,840
Speaker 15: of just to get to know you.

532
00:32:17,160 --> 00:32:18,640
Speaker 6: Yeah, and the finance some things.

533
00:32:19,000 --> 00:32:21,400
Speaker 13: It helps me, But know what frame of mind or

534
00:32:21,440 --> 00:32:25,360
Speaker 13: what state of you know, addition in your life.

535
00:32:25,440 --> 00:32:26,360
Speaker 7: See Okay.

536
00:32:28,040 --> 00:32:30,920
Speaker 1: Rosie goes on to tell the KBI agents what she

537
00:32:31,040 --> 00:32:31,480
Speaker 1: told me.

538
00:32:32,560 --> 00:32:35,320
Speaker 13: I thank you for your honesty on that, and I

539
00:32:35,360 --> 00:32:37,920
Speaker 13: know that's something that's very difficult to the goal with

540
00:32:38,080 --> 00:32:44,360
Speaker 13: for people. I hope that we have proven to you

541
00:32:44,480 --> 00:32:48,800
Speaker 13: so far that we're not threatening, okay, Yes, And I

542
00:32:48,840 --> 00:32:53,000
Speaker 13: hope that you feel that you can tell us information

543
00:32:53,640 --> 00:32:57,120
Speaker 13: and that information is not going any further than this room.

544
00:32:57,160 --> 00:32:57,520
Speaker 4: Okay.

545
00:32:58,640 --> 00:33:00,400
Speaker 6: Yes.

546
00:33:04,640 --> 00:33:09,400
Speaker 1: Remember what attorney Miranda Hellman said. They tapped into young

547
00:33:09,480 --> 00:33:13,320
Speaker 1: girls who had nothing to lose and a lot to gain,

548
00:33:14,040 --> 00:33:16,760
Speaker 1: who would lie on their own cousin out of fear

549
00:33:17,080 --> 00:33:22,440
Speaker 1: or for money, or simply out of spite. Lies that

550
00:33:22,600 --> 00:33:29,000
Speaker 1: shattered numerous lives and an entire family to lie.

551
00:33:29,120 --> 00:33:32,240
Speaker 7: Oh my daughter liked that. It's best did I not

552
00:33:32,360 --> 00:33:33,920
Speaker 7: see the one of them?

553
00:33:34,640 --> 00:33:40,320
Speaker 1: Because I will be in prison that's after the break.

554
00:34:08,200 --> 00:34:11,839
Speaker 1: Just like Quincy Cross and Jeff Burton, Tamra Caldwell has

555
00:34:11,880 --> 00:34:15,240
Speaker 1: had people fighting in her corner, people like Brenda.

556
00:34:15,920 --> 00:34:19,000
Speaker 7: Tamra is actually my best friend. She's my daughter, don't

557
00:34:19,000 --> 00:34:22,120
Speaker 7: get me wrong, but she's also my best friend.

558
00:34:23,160 --> 00:34:26,440
Speaker 1: When Tamor went to prison for Jessica's murder, Brenda quit

559
00:34:26,520 --> 00:34:29,520
Speaker 1: her job as a ged instructor to take care of

560
00:34:29,560 --> 00:34:30,880
Speaker 1: Tamra's three kids.

561
00:34:31,239 --> 00:34:32,880
Speaker 7: And if I had to do it all over again,

562
00:34:33,040 --> 00:34:36,000
Speaker 7: I would. I would because there's no way my grandkids

563
00:34:36,080 --> 00:34:38,319
Speaker 7: was going to be put in anybody's spouse to care.

564
00:34:38,719 --> 00:34:44,160
Speaker 7: No way. So I took care of her kids and

565
00:34:44,400 --> 00:34:46,640
Speaker 7: you know, just do what I had to do.

566
00:34:47,840 --> 00:34:51,400
Speaker 1: In a low profile matching armchair. Next to Brenda sits

567
00:34:51,560 --> 00:34:56,480
Speaker 1: Nobel Faulkner, Brenda's common law husband, and the private investigator

568
00:34:56,520 --> 00:34:59,960
Speaker 1: you heard earlier interviewing Venetia and Rosie.

569
00:35:00,480 --> 00:35:03,200
Speaker 2: As I started investigating this case, you know, I found

570
00:35:03,360 --> 00:35:06,440
Speaker 2: that a lot of things were that they just didn't

571
00:35:06,480 --> 00:35:07,880
Speaker 2: make common sense.

572
00:35:08,960 --> 00:35:11,840
Speaker 14: Hello, ladies, I just got off the phone with Nobel

573
00:35:11,840 --> 00:35:14,120
Speaker 14: Peace Prize. Nobel faultner.

574
00:35:15,080 --> 00:35:18,800
Speaker 1: Nobel is also close to Daryl Woolman, my trusted source.

575
00:35:19,400 --> 00:35:22,239
Speaker 14: First time I talked to Noble, he told me a

576
00:35:22,239 --> 00:35:25,160
Speaker 14: wonderful story about when he was in the Navy he

577
00:35:25,239 --> 00:35:28,000
Speaker 14: had to jump into the ocean and that there was

578
00:35:28,000 --> 00:35:31,680
Speaker 14: a shark chase in him and he punched the shark

579
00:35:31,840 --> 00:35:35,520
Speaker 14: in the face or something along those lines. But you

580
00:35:35,640 --> 00:35:39,319
Speaker 14: couldn't make him up or write him if you wanted to.

581
00:35:43,440 --> 00:35:47,320
Speaker 1: Noble is in his seventies, tall and lean. He's worked

582
00:35:47,320 --> 00:35:50,360
Speaker 1: in security for over fifty years, and he's been a

583
00:35:50,360 --> 00:35:54,879
Speaker 1: private investigator since the eighties. His body is slowing down

584
00:35:54,920 --> 00:35:58,600
Speaker 1: with age and its many ailments, but he comes alive

585
00:35:58,680 --> 00:36:02,560
Speaker 1: when talking about this case with the exuberance of a preacher.

586
00:36:03,280 --> 00:36:10,360
Speaker 2: See, in this whole big jungle of lies and deceptions,

587
00:36:10,920 --> 00:36:11,920
Speaker 2: there is the truth.

588
00:36:13,120 --> 00:36:14,960
Speaker 1: But you got to figure it out, You got to

589
00:36:15,000 --> 00:36:20,080
Speaker 1: put it together. Brenda actually sought Nobel out years ago

590
00:36:20,440 --> 00:36:22,440
Speaker 1: before they got together, and I.

591
00:36:22,400 --> 00:36:25,040
Speaker 7: Had heard so many people saying how good of an

592
00:36:25,080 --> 00:36:29,719
Speaker 7: investigator he was, and I wanted my daughter to be

593
00:36:29,800 --> 00:36:33,200
Speaker 7: cleared of this murder case.

594
00:36:33,280 --> 00:36:33,480
Speaker 4: Yes.

595
00:36:34,680 --> 00:36:39,040
Speaker 1: Since then, Nobel has spoken to nearly every key player

596
00:36:39,080 --> 00:36:42,719
Speaker 1: in this case, and all of their stories have led

597
00:36:42,800 --> 00:36:44,799
Speaker 1: Nobel to one conclusion.

598
00:36:45,640 --> 00:36:50,080
Speaker 2: They framed Quincy Crass, they framed Timer Carwell, they framed

599
00:36:50,160 --> 00:36:51,359
Speaker 2: Jeffrey Burton.

600
00:36:53,040 --> 00:36:54,239
Speaker 3: And they know they did.

601
00:36:55,080 --> 00:36:58,400
Speaker 2: And that's why today you all are standing up in

602
00:36:58,440 --> 00:37:01,240
Speaker 2: this room try to get the facts on this case

603
00:37:01,560 --> 00:37:10,040
Speaker 2: when it should have been solved twenty years ago.

604
00:37:10,520 --> 00:37:14,400
Speaker 1: And this is where Attorney Miranda Hellman is now wondering

605
00:37:14,680 --> 00:37:17,880
Speaker 1: how this case was even brought to trial in the

606
00:37:17,920 --> 00:37:18,600
Speaker 1: first place.

607
00:37:19,160 --> 00:37:21,200
Speaker 8: When I look at this case, I go no way,

608
00:37:21,480 --> 00:37:23,680
Speaker 8: like this couldn't have happened. I see the holes in

609
00:37:23,719 --> 00:37:26,880
Speaker 8: this case. Why can't a prosecutor who's been practicing for

610
00:37:26,920 --> 00:37:30,279
Speaker 8: thirty years see it? Why didn't the Attorney General see it?

611
00:37:30,360 --> 00:37:32,279
Speaker 8: Why didn't the judge see it?

612
00:37:33,200 --> 00:37:37,719
Speaker 1: And as a journalist myself, I'm wondering why didn't a

613
00:37:37,719 --> 00:37:42,200
Speaker 1: seasoned reporter like Tom Mangold see it. We have no

614
00:37:42,360 --> 00:37:46,000
Speaker 1: emails between Tom and Susan after twenty twelve. This is

615
00:37:46,040 --> 00:37:49,120
Speaker 1: the last time Tom published a piece featuring Susan in

616
00:37:49,200 --> 00:37:52,799
Speaker 1: his radio documentary for the BBC, and this was also

617
00:37:52,880 --> 00:37:56,360
Speaker 1: around the time Tom sent the email to Susan's friend

618
00:37:56,920 --> 00:38:02,560
Speaker 1: and collaborator saying, Lacy, I'm just beginning to wonder This

619
00:38:02,719 --> 00:38:05,640
Speaker 1: is but a tiny worm of an idea in my

620
00:38:05,800 --> 00:38:09,880
Speaker 1: wine soaked brain that there is a teeny weeny, itsy

621
00:38:10,040 --> 00:38:14,640
Speaker 1: bitsy chance that we've got this whole fucking murder story wrong.

622
00:38:18,080 --> 00:38:21,759
Speaker 1: This seat of doubt was planted after Susan's friend took

623
00:38:21,840 --> 00:38:25,759
Speaker 1: a more active role helping Tom mangled research for his documentary.

624
00:38:26,480 --> 00:38:29,759
Speaker 1: She went to talk to Victoria, and Victoria told her

625
00:38:30,160 --> 00:38:33,920
Speaker 1: that she made most of her story up, that the

626
00:38:34,040 --> 00:38:37,560
Speaker 1: diary they used at trial was fake, that the KBI

627
00:38:37,880 --> 00:38:42,080
Speaker 1: had threatened her, that she lied on Tamra out of spite.

628
00:38:43,080 --> 00:38:48,040
Speaker 1: Tom knew this. He fretted over her credibility in emails

629
00:38:48,040 --> 00:38:51,479
Speaker 1: to his producer and to law enforcement, but he ended

630
00:38:51,520 --> 00:38:55,720
Speaker 1: up going with Victoria's story, implicating Quincy, Jeff and Tamra

631
00:38:56,239 --> 00:39:03,040
Speaker 1: of horrific crimes without mentioning her incantation, and praising Susan

632
00:39:03,200 --> 00:39:07,320
Speaker 1: as the everyday citizen who helped solve a murder against

633
00:39:07,360 --> 00:39:12,400
Speaker 1: all odds. And that was really it for the duo,

634
00:39:13,080 --> 00:39:18,240
Speaker 1: the veteran journalist and the Kentucky housewife. Then in twenty eighteen,

635
00:39:19,080 --> 00:39:23,120
Speaker 1: Tom got the email from Susan's sister telling him that

636
00:39:23,280 --> 00:39:27,440
Speaker 1: she died. I've been trying to contact you and regretfully

637
00:39:27,440 --> 00:39:30,759
Speaker 1: inform you of Susan's recent death. It's been such a

638
00:39:30,800 --> 00:39:35,440
Speaker 1: trying time, and that Susan's sister would be taking over

639
00:39:35,560 --> 00:39:40,759
Speaker 1: any negotiation on pending movie deals or documentaries about her.

640
00:39:41,440 --> 00:39:44,440
Speaker 1: I do know she has pending proceedings going on, and

641
00:39:44,480 --> 00:39:47,759
Speaker 1: I'll need to discuss that with the agent or BBC.

642
00:39:49,360 --> 00:39:52,520
Speaker 1: Tom's work on the Jessica current murder is full of

643
00:39:52,640 --> 00:39:56,799
Speaker 1: half truths, yet I'm unable to dismiss all of it

644
00:39:57,600 --> 00:40:01,600
Speaker 1: because Tom didn't only go after people with no recourse

645
00:40:01,760 --> 00:40:05,840
Speaker 1: or real power, like Quincy Cross. He also sought to

646
00:40:05,880 --> 00:40:09,960
Speaker 1: hold the people in charge accountable, pointing the finger at

647
00:40:10,000 --> 00:40:23,000
Speaker 1: the very first officers who led Jessica's case astray.

648
00:40:19,160 --> 00:40:22,960
Speaker 2: When he finally left the Mayfield Police Department. What was

649
00:40:23,000 --> 00:40:24,040
Speaker 2: found in his desk?

650
00:40:24,520 --> 00:40:31,719
Speaker 9: Oh, they found drugs, they found guns, everything that should.

651
00:40:31,440 --> 00:40:32,120
Speaker 13: Not have been there.

652
00:40:37,560 --> 00:40:47,440
Speaker 1: That's on the next and final episode. Graves County is

653
00:40:47,480 --> 00:40:51,040
Speaker 1: a production of Lava for Good in association with Signal

654
00:40:51,040 --> 00:40:54,480
Speaker 1: Company Number One. This show is written and produced by

655
00:40:54,560 --> 00:40:59,040
Speaker 1: me Maggie Freeling and senior producer Rebecca Ibarra, Jason Flamm,

656
00:40:59,120 --> 00:41:03,320
Speaker 1: Jeff Kempler, and Kevin Wurtis. Are executive producers. Our editor

657
00:41:03,480 --> 00:41:07,880
Speaker 1: is Martina Abraham's Ilunga. Dannia Suleiman is our fact checker.

658
00:41:08,320 --> 00:41:12,600
Speaker 1: Sound design and mixing by Joe Plored, music created by Wrench.

659
00:41:12,800 --> 00:41:15,719
Speaker 1: Our theme song is the Gangsta grass version of The

660
00:41:15,760 --> 00:41:19,440
Speaker 1: One Who's Holding the Star by Leo Schofield and Kevin Herrick.

661
00:41:19,960 --> 00:41:23,560
Speaker 1: Darrel Woolman is investigative producer. Our head of marketing and

662
00:41:23,640 --> 00:41:27,320
Speaker 1: Operations is Jeff Cliburn. Is Many Guarderama is our social

663
00:41:27,360 --> 00:41:30,960
Speaker 1: media director, and our social Media manager is Sarah Gibbons.

664
00:41:31,200 --> 00:41:34,799
Speaker 1: Andrew Nelson is art director, with additional production help from

665
00:41:34,840 --> 00:41:39,000
Speaker 1: Jackie Pauley, Kara Kornhaber and Kathleen Fink. Be sure to

666
00:41:39,080 --> 00:41:42,800
Speaker 1: follow us on Instagram, TikTok, Facebook and threads at Lava

667
00:41:42,840 --> 00:41:46,400
Speaker 1: for Good and follow me at Maggie Freeling. And we

668
00:41:46,560 --> 00:41:48,839
Speaker 1: know there's a lot of names for you to keep

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Speaker 1: up with in this series, so for a detailed list

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Speaker 1: of characters, please go to our show notes