1 00:00:01,280 --> 00:00:04,320 Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuff you missed in History Class a production 2 00:00:04,400 --> 00:00:13,680 Speaker 1: of I Heart Radio, Hello and Happy Friday and Holly 3 00:00:13,760 --> 00:00:17,720 Speaker 1: Fry and I'm Tracy Vie Wilson. We talked about monarch 4 00:00:17,800 --> 00:00:24,200 Speaker 1: butterflies this week. We did, and I didn't once drop 5 00:00:24,400 --> 00:00:28,440 Speaker 1: into my ten year old child self and talk ad 6 00:00:28,520 --> 00:00:34,239 Speaker 1: nauseam about the Monarch from Venture Brothers, which is one 7 00:00:34,280 --> 00:00:37,720 Speaker 1: of my favorite animated shows, and the Monarch as a 8 00:00:37,800 --> 00:00:42,520 Speaker 1: villain question Mark is a spectacular and very fun character 9 00:00:43,400 --> 00:00:48,320 Speaker 1: that show, obviously a little more adult in theme, but 10 00:00:48,560 --> 00:00:50,960 Speaker 1: really really wonderful. And they do have a whole thing 11 00:00:51,000 --> 00:00:54,760 Speaker 1: about milkweed on one of the episode and how the 12 00:00:54,800 --> 00:00:58,120 Speaker 1: monarch became the Monarch who I want, I won't do. 13 00:00:58,160 --> 00:01:01,200 Speaker 1: His voice is pretty great. But this is one of 14 00:01:01,240 --> 00:01:03,680 Speaker 1: those things that I am curious about and I'm gonna 15 00:01:03,760 --> 00:01:06,959 Speaker 1: kind of crowdsource from listeners if they're interested in participating, 16 00:01:07,000 --> 00:01:11,280 Speaker 1: because Tracy, I bet you like me, probably at some 17 00:01:11,319 --> 00:01:15,880 Speaker 1: point in elementary school went to see like a monarch 18 00:01:16,000 --> 00:01:19,600 Speaker 1: chrysalis situation on a field trip, or they came to 19 00:01:19,640 --> 00:01:22,959 Speaker 1: you in some way. Yeah. So I remember this in 20 00:01:23,000 --> 00:01:26,360 Speaker 1: two different places, and one was we had a place 21 00:01:26,400 --> 00:01:29,240 Speaker 1: that at the time was called the Nature Science Center, 22 00:01:29,640 --> 00:01:34,800 Speaker 1: which was a you know, nature museum type place aimed 23 00:01:34,840 --> 00:01:38,880 Speaker 1: at children. Uh and I so I remember there they 24 00:01:38,880 --> 00:01:41,600 Speaker 1: would have like the little stem of milkweed with a 25 00:01:41,640 --> 00:01:46,399 Speaker 1: little chrystals on it, and you could see what was 26 00:01:46,440 --> 00:01:50,600 Speaker 1: going on with lots of interpretive signs about butterflies. But 27 00:01:50,640 --> 00:01:53,480 Speaker 1: then I also remember something that probably was like ordered 28 00:01:53,520 --> 00:01:55,720 Speaker 1: from a science supply store or something that was like 29 00:01:56,320 --> 00:02:04,280 Speaker 1: a little classroom, tiny little terrarium type ing in the classroom. Yeah, 30 00:02:04,320 --> 00:02:08,240 Speaker 1: I am wondering, and my question to listeners, if anybody 31 00:02:08,280 --> 00:02:11,080 Speaker 1: has insight, is whether or not they're doing those field 32 00:02:11,120 --> 00:02:15,280 Speaker 1: trips these days, even like pre pandemic, because I feel 33 00:02:15,280 --> 00:02:17,640 Speaker 1: like there are so many more digital resources than we 34 00:02:17,760 --> 00:02:19,960 Speaker 1: I mean, we didn't have digital resources when we were 35 00:02:19,960 --> 00:02:22,640 Speaker 1: in elementary school. So I'm wondering if there's still that 36 00:02:22,720 --> 00:02:27,760 Speaker 1: kind of like in person learning experience or if um 37 00:02:27,800 --> 00:02:31,520 Speaker 1: that's transition more to to digital and online stuff. I 38 00:02:31,600 --> 00:02:36,000 Speaker 1: do know that EPCOT during it during Flower and Garden 39 00:02:36,080 --> 00:02:39,200 Speaker 1: Festival returing Food and Wine Festival, Epcott at one point 40 00:02:39,240 --> 00:02:43,360 Speaker 1: during the year does do like a monarch garden, and 41 00:02:43,400 --> 00:02:47,520 Speaker 1: they'll sometimes have a little roosting area that you can 42 00:02:47,520 --> 00:02:49,880 Speaker 1: go look at but I think that's a it would 43 00:02:49,880 --> 00:02:51,359 Speaker 1: be hard to plan for it. You got to kind 44 00:02:51,360 --> 00:02:54,360 Speaker 1: of catch the right time by accident. But yeah, so 45 00:02:54,480 --> 00:02:58,400 Speaker 1: I'm curious if you have have kiddos that are elementary 46 00:02:58,400 --> 00:03:02,080 Speaker 1: school age and they have done uh Monarch, you know study, 47 00:03:02,240 --> 00:03:04,600 Speaker 1: what if if they're still doing in person or if 48 00:03:04,639 --> 00:03:08,640 Speaker 1: they are as I suspect possibly many doing online these days. 49 00:03:09,480 --> 00:03:12,920 Speaker 1: They're so beautiful. I love them so much. One of 50 00:03:12,960 --> 00:03:15,400 Speaker 1: my favorite running outfits was the dress that I painted 51 00:03:15,440 --> 00:03:20,239 Speaker 1: to look like a giant monarch butterfly, because I am ridiculous. Um. 52 00:03:20,440 --> 00:03:23,520 Speaker 1: I also wanted to mention there was an interesting thing 53 00:03:24,680 --> 00:03:31,400 Speaker 1: about Catesby's two volume work UH Natural History, and his 54 00:03:32,120 --> 00:03:35,400 Speaker 1: why it took him twenty years to get the second 55 00:03:35,440 --> 00:03:37,720 Speaker 1: volume out and a pretty long time to get the 56 00:03:37,720 --> 00:03:41,000 Speaker 1: first volume out and it didn't merit inclusion. We already 57 00:03:41,000 --> 00:03:43,640 Speaker 1: included a lot of biographical information about people to kind 58 00:03:43,640 --> 00:03:45,880 Speaker 1: of give timeline context, and I didn't want to keep 59 00:03:45,880 --> 00:03:49,160 Speaker 1: getting bogged down in that. But when he came back, 60 00:03:49,400 --> 00:03:52,320 Speaker 1: even though the Royal Society had paid for all of it, 61 00:03:52,360 --> 00:03:54,480 Speaker 1: they didn't like pay for his book to be made. 62 00:03:55,800 --> 00:04:00,280 Speaker 1: And he was very much a hands on per person 63 00:04:00,520 --> 00:04:03,800 Speaker 1: and he did not have the funds to like pay 64 00:04:03,880 --> 00:04:07,480 Speaker 1: a printer the normal going rate to get his book published. 65 00:04:08,160 --> 00:04:13,160 Speaker 1: So he learned the book publishing process himself, like how 66 00:04:13,200 --> 00:04:16,719 Speaker 1: to do book plates, how to do everything. Some of 67 00:04:16,760 --> 00:04:20,960 Speaker 1: that delay is a learning curve for him, and then 68 00:04:21,120 --> 00:04:23,560 Speaker 1: he sold it via subscription model. It was like the 69 00:04:23,560 --> 00:04:27,320 Speaker 1: original indiego go or go fund me kind of thing 70 00:04:27,400 --> 00:04:30,799 Speaker 1: where if it meets its goal, I could publish this book. 71 00:04:31,040 --> 00:04:33,720 Speaker 1: I just thought that was all very fascinating. Yeah, We've 72 00:04:33,720 --> 00:04:37,080 Speaker 1: talked about various people that have like like the model 73 00:04:37,120 --> 00:04:40,640 Speaker 1: of getting subscribers to get your book rented, but not 74 00:04:40,760 --> 00:04:44,360 Speaker 1: the learning how to do it yourself part. I'm gonna 75 00:04:44,440 --> 00:04:47,240 Speaker 1: learn how to run a press. I'm gonna figure out 76 00:04:48,760 --> 00:04:51,800 Speaker 1: it appeals to my soul that that kind of that 77 00:04:51,880 --> 00:04:54,200 Speaker 1: kind of d I Y approach. Yeah, And I'm just 78 00:04:54,200 --> 00:04:56,839 Speaker 1: thinking about we were was it when we were in 79 00:04:57,520 --> 00:04:59,000 Speaker 1: I don't know. It was on our West Coast tour 80 00:04:59,040 --> 00:05:00,919 Speaker 1: there was a book binder museum that I went to 81 00:05:01,800 --> 00:05:04,440 Speaker 1: and I was literally the only person in the museum, 82 00:05:04,480 --> 00:05:07,279 Speaker 1: so I basically got like a just by myself guided 83 00:05:07,320 --> 00:05:10,719 Speaker 1: tour of the whole place. U there are a lot 84 00:05:11,040 --> 00:05:18,440 Speaker 1: of steps in book binding methods that involved urine. So 85 00:05:19,720 --> 00:05:23,240 Speaker 1: if you're not schooled in the usage of all of 86 00:05:23,279 --> 00:05:27,240 Speaker 1: the urine parts, that seems like it might be particularly unpleasant. 87 00:05:28,680 --> 00:05:30,880 Speaker 1: There's some there's a lot of work in the whole thing, 88 00:05:31,160 --> 00:05:35,240 Speaker 1: So hats off to you, Mr Catesby in history for 89 00:05:35,320 --> 00:05:37,839 Speaker 1: learning how to do all of that yourself. Um. This 90 00:05:37,960 --> 00:05:43,360 Speaker 1: was a really interesting one because I knew about Catalina's story. 91 00:05:44,560 --> 00:05:47,400 Speaker 1: She since remarried and she has a different last name. 92 00:05:47,440 --> 00:05:50,200 Speaker 1: I didn't include it in the episode because, as we mentioned, 93 00:05:50,279 --> 00:05:53,280 Speaker 1: like while she has done some stuff and she has 94 00:05:53,320 --> 00:05:57,320 Speaker 1: worked with some conservation groups and butterfly in interest groups, 95 00:05:57,360 --> 00:06:00,480 Speaker 1: she's not a big like I to be out there 96 00:06:00,480 --> 00:06:02,080 Speaker 1: in the public eye person, which is why I did 97 00:06:02,120 --> 00:06:04,159 Speaker 1: not include her current last name, even though it's not 98 00:06:04,320 --> 00:06:06,880 Speaker 1: hard to find. Um, and I want her to have 99 00:06:06,960 --> 00:06:08,960 Speaker 1: credit for what she did, but I also want to 100 00:06:09,000 --> 00:06:10,920 Speaker 1: make sure you know you and I normally would not 101 00:06:11,000 --> 00:06:15,600 Speaker 1: include a person who is still alive in the podcast. 102 00:06:16,200 --> 00:06:18,719 Speaker 1: She's an outlier in that regard, so I wanted to 103 00:06:18,720 --> 00:06:22,000 Speaker 1: be as like hyper respectful of her privacy. Yeah, we 104 00:06:22,040 --> 00:06:24,839 Speaker 1: have still living people that come up from time to time, 105 00:06:24,880 --> 00:06:27,000 Speaker 1: but a lot of times they are still living people. 106 00:06:27,080 --> 00:06:32,360 Speaker 1: Who are like a lot more publicly visible then she is, 107 00:06:32,440 --> 00:06:35,640 Speaker 1: and so if so and so is a leading academic 108 00:06:35,680 --> 00:06:39,120 Speaker 1: researcher who does public history all the time. Bl blah 109 00:06:39,160 --> 00:06:42,120 Speaker 1: blah blah. Like that's a different situation from like a 110 00:06:42,200 --> 00:06:45,280 Speaker 1: private citizen who was maintaining a pretty private life at 111 00:06:45,279 --> 00:06:48,279 Speaker 1: this point. Yeah, she has, he said in interviews like, 112 00:06:48,360 --> 00:06:51,120 Speaker 1: I like, I like my quiet life. Yeah, and I 113 00:06:51,120 --> 00:06:53,520 Speaker 1: don't want to mess with that. Um. I did notice 114 00:06:53,560 --> 00:06:56,480 Speaker 1: there was an interview she did with a butterfly group 115 00:06:56,480 --> 00:06:59,240 Speaker 1: where someone was asking how she viewed this whole thing, 116 00:06:59,680 --> 00:07:02,640 Speaker 1: and she is saying, you know, people got it wrong 117 00:07:02,760 --> 00:07:06,920 Speaker 1: for so long and it's getting better. But also I'm 118 00:07:07,040 --> 00:07:10,720 Speaker 1: I'm obviously not directly quoting, but basically like, because there 119 00:07:10,720 --> 00:07:13,840 Speaker 1: have now been decades of misinformation, it's really hard to 120 00:07:13,960 --> 00:07:16,480 Speaker 1: course correct for a lot of it, which is just 121 00:07:16,520 --> 00:07:19,360 Speaker 1: an interesting thing to consider. It's kind of like, I mean, 122 00:07:19,400 --> 00:07:22,080 Speaker 1: I wanted to include that aspect of it because we 123 00:07:22,160 --> 00:07:24,960 Speaker 1: talk all the time about how, you know, there are 124 00:07:25,320 --> 00:07:30,520 Speaker 1: versions of history that get completely inadvertently even or vertent 125 00:07:30,600 --> 00:07:33,720 Speaker 1: lye I don't know, um, you know, kind of written 126 00:07:33,760 --> 00:07:37,280 Speaker 1: in a way that eliminates key elements or key people 127 00:07:37,480 --> 00:07:39,760 Speaker 1: in them, and that was one and it was the 128 00:07:39,800 --> 00:07:43,680 Speaker 1: same reason that I wanted to include that discussion of 129 00:07:43,760 --> 00:07:47,080 Speaker 1: the fact that Petiver getting all of his amazing samples, 130 00:07:47,080 --> 00:07:51,080 Speaker 1: which are lauded still as being like such an incredible collection, 131 00:07:52,120 --> 00:07:57,120 Speaker 1: it's tied to really nefarious and not not rosy and 132 00:07:57,160 --> 00:08:02,640 Speaker 1: delightful people history. Yeah. Um. We always joked that every 133 00:08:02,680 --> 00:08:05,760 Speaker 1: piece of history we talked about is we always discover 134 00:08:05,960 --> 00:08:09,880 Speaker 1: is trace back to racism and slavery in many cases. 135 00:08:10,200 --> 00:08:14,880 Speaker 1: But I really had not thought about how much naturalist 136 00:08:14,960 --> 00:08:19,240 Speaker 1: and biological history and our knowledge was tied to the 137 00:08:19,280 --> 00:08:21,200 Speaker 1: slave trade until I read that paper, and then I 138 00:08:21,240 --> 00:08:24,040 Speaker 1: was like, oh yeah, and also in other parts of 139 00:08:24,080 --> 00:08:29,760 Speaker 1: the world like colonialism and right, yeah, yeah, yeah. The 140 00:08:29,800 --> 00:08:35,840 Speaker 1: good news is you can grow milk wheed at home, um, 141 00:08:35,880 --> 00:08:38,040 Speaker 1: which I ordered a bunch of And I literally while 142 00:08:38,080 --> 00:08:41,160 Speaker 1: I was working on this, I texted a bunch of 143 00:08:41,160 --> 00:08:44,319 Speaker 1: my friends. It was basically like, by the way, you're 144 00:08:44,360 --> 00:08:46,439 Speaker 1: all going to start growing milk wheat. I already ordered 145 00:08:46,440 --> 00:08:52,040 Speaker 1: seeds for everybody to be bossy, but the butterflies need us. Um. 146 00:08:52,080 --> 00:08:56,520 Speaker 1: I have had various stabs at growing uh flowers and 147 00:08:56,600 --> 00:09:00,920 Speaker 1: nectar plants for insects here in my yard with varying 148 00:09:00,920 --> 00:09:03,160 Speaker 1: degrees with success. But one of the things that I 149 00:09:03,160 --> 00:09:05,760 Speaker 1: will say, and if you if you go check out 150 00:09:06,160 --> 00:09:09,240 Speaker 1: um Monarch joint Venture dot org, which we mentioned at 151 00:09:09,240 --> 00:09:12,400 Speaker 1: the end of the podcast, they will link you to resources. 152 00:09:12,440 --> 00:09:14,319 Speaker 1: But one of the things that I did read multiple 153 00:09:14,320 --> 00:09:17,200 Speaker 1: times is that you should get local milkweed, like the 154 00:09:17,240 --> 00:09:20,480 Speaker 1: milkweed that naturally grows in your area, because a lot 155 00:09:20,480 --> 00:09:25,640 Speaker 1: of places sell tropical milkweed that will actually confuse sometimes 156 00:09:26,160 --> 00:09:29,320 Speaker 1: insects into thinking it's not time to move on. I 157 00:09:29,360 --> 00:09:31,720 Speaker 1: don't know if that's true. I'm not an entomologist, but 158 00:09:31,840 --> 00:09:34,800 Speaker 1: definitely like local is always better for your area if 159 00:09:34,840 --> 00:09:38,280 Speaker 1: you're trying to participate in a project like this um 160 00:09:38,520 --> 00:09:42,640 Speaker 1: so it's easy Piecy. You'll have some fun flowers and 161 00:09:42,679 --> 00:09:48,280 Speaker 1: then maybe you'll also get cute visitors who doesn't want that. Yeah, 162 00:09:48,280 --> 00:09:50,240 Speaker 1: it's interesting. One of the things that came up in 163 00:09:50,280 --> 00:09:54,719 Speaker 1: several articles, particularly in this last week where the extinction 164 00:09:56,000 --> 00:10:02,480 Speaker 1: endangered species listing was made UH is that several people 165 00:10:02,600 --> 00:10:05,000 Speaker 1: in the science community have noted like this is one 166 00:10:05,000 --> 00:10:08,440 Speaker 1: of the first species that a lot of people in 167 00:10:08,520 --> 00:10:11,480 Speaker 1: North America feel a natural connection to because they see 168 00:10:11,520 --> 00:10:15,000 Speaker 1: them in their yards. So hopefully the hope is that 169 00:10:15,679 --> 00:10:19,400 Speaker 1: one people will want to do, like take those simple 170 00:10:19,440 --> 00:10:23,319 Speaker 1: steps of like growing local flowering plants so that insects 171 00:10:23,320 --> 00:10:27,120 Speaker 1: in your area that are important to the whole biosphere 172 00:10:27,120 --> 00:10:30,520 Speaker 1: of your area will continue to thrive, but also that 173 00:10:30,640 --> 00:10:34,040 Speaker 1: it will kind of help people make a bigger connection 174 00:10:34,080 --> 00:10:39,600 Speaker 1: to conservation and to making bigger efforts towards conservation of 175 00:10:39,640 --> 00:10:42,680 Speaker 1: species that that they maybe don't have that personal connection to. 176 00:10:42,840 --> 00:10:45,959 Speaker 1: So that is my my hope, my hope, my hope. 177 00:10:46,120 --> 00:10:50,480 Speaker 1: If you start growing milkweed, send us pictures, tell us 178 00:10:50,480 --> 00:10:53,760 Speaker 1: all about it and about your success, because I'm very curious. Um, 179 00:10:53,800 --> 00:10:56,400 Speaker 1: I hope we all do such things because I think 180 00:10:56,440 --> 00:10:58,880 Speaker 1: that would be great. It's easy. You can even do 181 00:10:58,960 --> 00:11:00,680 Speaker 1: it in a planter. You don't have to have a 182 00:11:00,679 --> 00:11:05,600 Speaker 1: big tract of lamp. So hopefully will all improve things 183 00:11:05,640 --> 00:11:17,840 Speaker 1: and the butterflies will bounce back. I hope. Oh, Tracy, 184 00:11:17,920 --> 00:11:21,920 Speaker 1: we talked about Luigi this week. He was tricky for 185 00:11:21,960 --> 00:11:24,360 Speaker 1: me in some ways, which you discovered. There were parts 186 00:11:24,360 --> 00:11:26,880 Speaker 1: where I had started a sentence and just vanished during 187 00:11:26,880 --> 00:11:29,440 Speaker 1: that because I could there were things about his life 188 00:11:29,440 --> 00:11:32,920 Speaker 1: that I did not know how to describe in a 189 00:11:32,960 --> 00:11:38,240 Speaker 1: way that would be appropriate for our show, because he was, 190 00:11:39,400 --> 00:11:41,960 Speaker 1: as we talked about, a womanizer in a way that 191 00:11:42,200 --> 00:11:46,079 Speaker 1: had some very misogynist leanings. UM like. He at one 192 00:11:46,120 --> 00:11:51,880 Speaker 1: point in his autobiography talked about um offering lessons to 193 00:11:52,000 --> 00:11:55,640 Speaker 1: women who wanted to take photography lessons for their hobby, 194 00:11:55,800 --> 00:11:58,920 Speaker 1: and he wrote about them, quote, any woman who takes 195 00:11:58,960 --> 00:12:02,520 Speaker 1: up photography as a hobby has something emotionally lacking in 196 00:12:02,559 --> 00:12:06,440 Speaker 1: her life. She must be emotionally starved as I was. 197 00:12:06,920 --> 00:12:09,080 Speaker 1: So it's like this one too punch where he's like, 198 00:12:09,760 --> 00:12:12,720 Speaker 1: you wouldn't do this unless you you needed a thrill. 199 00:12:12,760 --> 00:12:15,080 Speaker 1: But I also understand because I needed a thrill. Like 200 00:12:15,120 --> 00:12:18,960 Speaker 1: it's a little He always has this kind of duality 201 00:12:18,960 --> 00:12:21,559 Speaker 1: where he is self deprecating at the same time he's 202 00:12:21,600 --> 00:12:23,880 Speaker 1: insulting other people, and I think in his head that 203 00:12:23,920 --> 00:12:30,520 Speaker 1: makes it okay. Um. I was pleasantly surprised though about 204 00:12:30,559 --> 00:12:36,880 Speaker 1: the ways that he championed in his writing, like not 205 00:12:37,040 --> 00:12:41,200 Speaker 1: making spectacles out of people who were different. He had 206 00:12:41,240 --> 00:12:44,480 Speaker 1: this very personal sense of right and wrong, and he 207 00:12:44,559 --> 00:12:47,960 Speaker 1: relays this one story in his his autobiography where he 208 00:12:48,040 --> 00:12:54,040 Speaker 1: was asked for photos of what this editor from another 209 00:12:54,080 --> 00:12:58,160 Speaker 1: magazine that was not New York called Abnormal Fellows, and 210 00:12:58,240 --> 00:13:03,000 Speaker 1: what he meant was men who wore women's clothing and 211 00:13:03,160 --> 00:13:05,240 Speaker 1: in it. In it, we Gi said that he called 212 00:13:05,280 --> 00:13:08,600 Speaker 1: that editor and said, you're not getting the pictures. What's 213 00:13:08,640 --> 00:13:11,640 Speaker 1: abnormal to you is completely normal to me. Like he 214 00:13:11,840 --> 00:13:14,400 Speaker 1: just was like, no, I'm not going to exploit somebody 215 00:13:14,400 --> 00:13:18,640 Speaker 1: for your thing. So he had this voyeuristic tendency, but 216 00:13:18,720 --> 00:13:21,880 Speaker 1: he was also really weirdly protective of of people in 217 00:13:21,880 --> 00:13:25,800 Speaker 1: the fringe of society. It's very, very fascinating. The New 218 00:13:25,880 --> 00:13:29,040 Speaker 1: Yorker had to write up about him, in which they 219 00:13:29,080 --> 00:13:31,600 Speaker 1: they put it succinctly and much better than I could, 220 00:13:31,600 --> 00:13:35,840 Speaker 1: where they described him as both exploitative and humane, which 221 00:13:35,880 --> 00:13:38,600 Speaker 1: is a weird, a weird combo, but it's part of 222 00:13:38,640 --> 00:13:41,760 Speaker 1: what makes him so fascinating to me. We mentioned his 223 00:13:41,840 --> 00:13:44,960 Speaker 1: photos of doctor Strange Love, and if you are doing 224 00:13:45,600 --> 00:13:49,280 Speaker 1: calendar math, you may go, wait a minute. Strange Love 225 00:13:49,320 --> 00:13:53,400 Speaker 1: didn't come out until the nineteen sixties. I don't know 226 00:13:53,480 --> 00:13:57,240 Speaker 1: what the scoop is there. It is always specifically mentioned 227 00:13:57,440 --> 00:13:59,840 Speaker 1: as a thing that happened when he was in Hollywood, 228 00:13:59,880 --> 00:14:02,200 Speaker 1: but he was back in New York before that. Happened, 229 00:14:02,240 --> 00:14:04,160 Speaker 1: So I don't know if it's like a thing where 230 00:14:04,600 --> 00:14:08,080 Speaker 1: And I saw that reported in multiple places, so I 231 00:14:08,080 --> 00:14:10,640 Speaker 1: wanted to mention it here because it is a little 232 00:14:10,640 --> 00:14:13,000 Speaker 1: bit weird. I'm not sure what the scoop is there, 233 00:14:13,040 --> 00:14:15,600 Speaker 1: unless he just got called back by Kubrick for that. 234 00:14:16,320 --> 00:14:19,240 Speaker 1: There's also an interesting side story story about his life 235 00:14:19,640 --> 00:14:22,800 Speaker 1: that when he was working in Acne, he was also 236 00:14:23,560 --> 00:14:26,680 Speaker 1: a fiddle player, and he started playing in a movie 237 00:14:26,720 --> 00:14:32,920 Speaker 1: theater orchestra huh for a while, and that he hated 238 00:14:33,000 --> 00:14:36,480 Speaker 1: talkies because once they became a thing and sound attached 239 00:14:36,480 --> 00:14:39,640 Speaker 1: to picture was more common, he couldn't do that job anymore, 240 00:14:39,640 --> 00:14:42,840 Speaker 1: which he apparently really loved, and he claimed that he 241 00:14:42,880 --> 00:14:48,200 Speaker 1: always hated talkies for the rest of his night. I 242 00:14:48,240 --> 00:14:51,960 Speaker 1: mean that seems like a logical grudge to hold. Yeah, 243 00:14:52,120 --> 00:14:54,240 Speaker 1: one other thing I wanted to mention because I'm sure 244 00:14:54,280 --> 00:14:58,320 Speaker 1: someone will ask he was Jewish. We didn't mention it 245 00:14:58,360 --> 00:15:00,480 Speaker 1: in the show because it's kind of like when we 246 00:15:00,520 --> 00:15:04,120 Speaker 1: talked about Theodo Vera, he would say things like, oh, 247 00:15:04,280 --> 00:15:06,880 Speaker 1: I took this holiday off, but he never talked about 248 00:15:06,920 --> 00:15:13,760 Speaker 1: actually observing any religious practices. It's unclear how connected he 249 00:15:13,880 --> 00:15:16,240 Speaker 1: was to that as part of his identity versus like 250 00:15:17,720 --> 00:15:20,200 Speaker 1: those just being the few days he would take off 251 00:15:20,240 --> 00:15:24,880 Speaker 1: a year because he was a workaholic without question. You know. 252 00:15:25,000 --> 00:15:29,520 Speaker 1: He he both wrote about himself and it's corroborated by 253 00:15:29,520 --> 00:15:33,960 Speaker 1: other accounts that like there would be times when, for example, 254 00:15:34,000 --> 00:15:37,880 Speaker 1: like a gangster was expected to be arrested, and so 255 00:15:38,000 --> 00:15:40,760 Speaker 1: Press would start to camp out around that person's apartment 256 00:15:40,760 --> 00:15:44,880 Speaker 1: building and the other guys would take shifts, and Luigi 257 00:15:45,000 --> 00:15:47,000 Speaker 1: would just stay the whole time, Like even if it 258 00:15:47,080 --> 00:15:50,360 Speaker 1: took three days, he would not leave. Um, so he 259 00:15:50,640 --> 00:15:53,960 Speaker 1: kind of had a his circadian rhythms were different than 260 00:15:54,000 --> 00:15:57,640 Speaker 1: everyone else's. I'll just he could not handle the nine 261 00:15:57,640 --> 00:16:02,400 Speaker 1: to five day job situation. Uh. The other fun factoried 262 00:16:02,400 --> 00:16:05,920 Speaker 1: about him is that he estimates that in his time 263 00:16:06,080 --> 00:16:10,480 Speaker 1: at ACME, he took photographs of more than five thousand murders, 264 00:16:10,480 --> 00:16:13,400 Speaker 1: which is a lot. That's so many, it is so 265 00:16:13,560 --> 00:16:20,000 Speaker 1: many have conflicted feelings about all the crime scene photography. Yeah, 266 00:16:20,040 --> 00:16:23,200 Speaker 1: it's um, I mean it's like it's like we said, 267 00:16:23,240 --> 00:16:27,440 Speaker 1: he could be very exploitative and also very humane. It's 268 00:16:27,480 --> 00:16:30,640 Speaker 1: it's really interesting to me, especially like when you see 269 00:16:31,640 --> 00:16:37,800 Speaker 1: the ways he took those pictures is usually pretty unromanticized. Right, 270 00:16:37,880 --> 00:16:41,640 Speaker 1: it is a straight photo of like a corpse on 271 00:16:41,680 --> 00:16:44,960 Speaker 1: the ground. And then when he takes pictures of people 272 00:16:45,120 --> 00:16:49,280 Speaker 1: that were often outsiders, there is often a little bit 273 00:16:49,320 --> 00:16:54,160 Speaker 1: more of a loving warmer set up to them, which 274 00:16:54,200 --> 00:16:58,480 Speaker 1: you can see, like he feels a greater connection to outsiders. Right. 275 00:16:58,480 --> 00:17:01,520 Speaker 1: He even talks about like what other people found beautiful. 276 00:17:01,560 --> 00:17:03,440 Speaker 1: He rarely did. Like he talked when he was at 277 00:17:03,520 --> 00:17:07,399 Speaker 1: Vogue about finding models kind of like just weird. He 278 00:17:07,400 --> 00:17:11,040 Speaker 1: didn't understand them, they didn't seem to understand themselves. In 279 00:17:11,119 --> 00:17:15,080 Speaker 1: his opinion, he didn't find anything attractive about a model. 280 00:17:15,480 --> 00:17:18,560 Speaker 1: But he was perfectly happy to like meet girls on 281 00:17:18,600 --> 00:17:19,960 Speaker 1: the street and just be like, you want to get 282 00:17:19,960 --> 00:17:21,399 Speaker 1: in my car and then they would drive around for 283 00:17:21,440 --> 00:17:25,080 Speaker 1: a while and maybe hook up. It's a little bit 284 00:17:25,119 --> 00:17:31,560 Speaker 1: of a a strange thing, you know, Uigi. Some of 285 00:17:31,600 --> 00:17:34,760 Speaker 1: his pictures are so beautiful, some are so upsetting. There's 286 00:17:34,800 --> 00:17:38,120 Speaker 1: everything in between. If you go looking, know that you're 287 00:17:38,119 --> 00:17:42,119 Speaker 1: probably going to see some blood at minimum. Yeah. I 288 00:17:42,160 --> 00:17:46,720 Speaker 1: find the really distorted ones um un nerving. I don't 289 00:17:46,760 --> 00:17:50,920 Speaker 1: love them, but I don't know if it's because I, 290 00:17:51,160 --> 00:17:53,479 Speaker 1: you know, grew up and came to be interested in 291 00:17:53,480 --> 00:17:57,440 Speaker 1: photography and art at a time when he had been 292 00:17:57,480 --> 00:18:00,240 Speaker 1: so much before that. I had already seen that kind 293 00:18:00,240 --> 00:18:05,040 Speaker 1: of photo playing and editing kind of played out like 294 00:18:05,119 --> 00:18:06,480 Speaker 1: to the point where when I find it, when I 295 00:18:06,520 --> 00:18:08,600 Speaker 1: actually realized that I was looking at his work, I 296 00:18:08,640 --> 00:18:15,000 Speaker 1: was like seeing it. I mean, he you know, his 297 00:18:15,119 --> 00:18:17,200 Speaker 1: pictures of New York at night are the real, are 298 00:18:17,240 --> 00:18:21,000 Speaker 1: the real, like meat and potatoes of his his work, 299 00:18:21,080 --> 00:18:23,000 Speaker 1: and really like the ones that I think most people 300 00:18:23,040 --> 00:18:26,800 Speaker 1: find the most engaging versus his later stuff where he 301 00:18:26,840 --> 00:18:30,600 Speaker 1: was kind of it seems much more purposely trying to 302 00:18:30,640 --> 00:18:33,840 Speaker 1: figure out new ways to make pictures and to make 303 00:18:33,880 --> 00:18:37,040 Speaker 1: them interesting, versus just capturing what was interesting about any 304 00:18:37,040 --> 00:18:40,480 Speaker 1: given scene on its own. Anyway, that was weechie. If 305 00:18:40,480 --> 00:18:42,159 Speaker 1: you have time off this weekend, I hope you look 306 00:18:42,200 --> 00:18:44,320 Speaker 1: at some good art. It's just good for your soul. 307 00:18:44,800 --> 00:18:48,439 Speaker 1: If you don't have time off, I'm sorry, and I 308 00:18:48,480 --> 00:18:50,760 Speaker 1: hope that it is as RESTful as can being. That 309 00:18:50,800 --> 00:18:52,960 Speaker 1: you do find some moments of sawace, look at some 310 00:18:52,960 --> 00:18:56,080 Speaker 1: pretty art that makes you happy. Um, and I hope 311 00:18:56,119 --> 00:18:59,920 Speaker 1: all of your responsibilities play out as beautifully and ideally 312 00:19:00,000 --> 00:19:03,680 Speaker 1: as possible. Everybody be good to each other. You will 313 00:19:03,720 --> 00:19:06,040 Speaker 1: find us right back here tomorrow with a classic, and 314 00:19:06,080 --> 00:19:08,560 Speaker 1: then starting on Monday, we'll have new stuff for you. 315 00:19:14,000 --> 00:19:16,159 Speaker 1: Stuff you missed in History Class is a production of 316 00:19:16,240 --> 00:19:19,440 Speaker 1: I heart Radio. For more podcasts from I heart Radio, 317 00:19:19,640 --> 00:19:22,639 Speaker 1: visit the i heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever 318 00:19:22,720 --> 00:19:24,199 Speaker 1: you listen to your favorite shows.