1 00:00:00,200 --> 00:00:27,840 Speaker 1: Ridiculous Histories, a production of iHeartRadio. Welcome back to the show, 2 00:00:27,880 --> 00:00:31,080 Speaker 1: fellow Ridiculous Historians. Thank you, as always so much for 3 00:00:31,240 --> 00:00:34,239 Speaker 1: tuning in. Let's hear it for our own Night in 4 00:00:34,960 --> 00:00:37,920 Speaker 1: Shining production Armor producer Max. 5 00:00:42,320 --> 00:00:45,120 Speaker 2: It is Max Williams Day, I Love. 6 00:00:45,080 --> 00:00:47,519 Speaker 3: I Love James Williams, the. 7 00:00:47,520 --> 00:00:52,240 Speaker 2: Third junior Senior Did you get esquire? Sure? And a 8 00:00:52,440 --> 00:00:53,760 Speaker 2: doctor in there as well, Yeah. 9 00:00:53,760 --> 00:00:57,760 Speaker 1: Vaughan something also, that's mister Noel Brown, the one and only. 10 00:00:58,320 --> 00:01:02,920 Speaker 4: So Max, You're dubbed diploma mud and uh you've got 11 00:01:02,960 --> 00:01:05,959 Speaker 4: your PhD. 12 00:01:07,280 --> 00:01:10,959 Speaker 1: And they called me ben Bully tax purposes here, guys, 13 00:01:11,080 --> 00:01:13,399 Speaker 1: have you ever been to Medieval Times? Well? 14 00:01:13,440 --> 00:01:15,120 Speaker 2: I did once travel back in time. 15 00:01:15,160 --> 00:01:17,399 Speaker 4: I woke up in it from a dream and I 16 00:01:17,520 --> 00:01:20,920 Speaker 4: found myself in in a in a in some sort 17 00:01:20,920 --> 00:01:21,480 Speaker 4: of dungeon. 18 00:01:22,160 --> 00:01:23,640 Speaker 2: No, that's not true. I made that up. 19 00:01:23,640 --> 00:01:26,479 Speaker 4: But I have not actually been to the restaurant, the 20 00:01:26,480 --> 00:01:30,720 Speaker 4: themed restaurant and attraction Medieval Times. The only experience I 21 00:01:30,760 --> 00:01:33,080 Speaker 4: have of it, frankly, is from the movie The Cable Guy. 22 00:01:33,760 --> 00:01:39,040 Speaker 3: Okay, yeah, my interaction is just knowing Jonathan Strickland renaissantly. 23 00:01:40,360 --> 00:01:42,800 Speaker 2: Okay, what wouldn't you agree? Though? 24 00:01:42,840 --> 00:01:45,600 Speaker 4: Ben if If we've been to a Renaissance festival, we've 25 00:01:45,600 --> 00:01:48,320 Speaker 4: more or less had the Medieval times experience, short of 26 00:01:48,360 --> 00:01:51,240 Speaker 4: the crappier food at medieval times, because we can all 27 00:01:51,320 --> 00:01:53,360 Speaker 4: argue that ren rent fair food pretty good. 28 00:01:53,720 --> 00:01:56,360 Speaker 1: Yeah, of course, those carneies know what they're doing. 29 00:01:56,440 --> 00:01:59,680 Speaker 2: Those carnies and those carnivores. All them turkey legs. 30 00:02:00,040 --> 00:02:03,360 Speaker 1: Oh man, I gotta say. I took some of the 31 00:02:03,880 --> 00:02:07,000 Speaker 1: friends of ours out for a group field trip to 32 00:02:07,640 --> 00:02:13,520 Speaker 1: the Renaissance Festival, and my girlfriend and I completely overestimated 33 00:02:13,600 --> 00:02:16,600 Speaker 1: the nostalgia factor. So we each got a turkey leg. 34 00:02:16,880 --> 00:02:19,519 Speaker 1: Those turkey legs are so big. Those are two people 35 00:02:19,560 --> 00:02:20,600 Speaker 1: turkey legs. 36 00:02:20,480 --> 00:02:21,600 Speaker 2: And it's weird some of them. 37 00:02:21,639 --> 00:02:24,040 Speaker 4: Maybe it's like on a per turkey leg basis, or 38 00:02:24,040 --> 00:02:26,000 Speaker 4: maybe this is a feature of every turkey leg. 39 00:02:26,160 --> 00:02:29,320 Speaker 2: They got this real weird flap of like tend any 40 00:02:29,400 --> 00:02:30,000 Speaker 2: stuff in them. 41 00:02:30,080 --> 00:02:31,200 Speaker 1: Oh yeah, yeah, it kind of. 42 00:02:31,120 --> 00:02:34,200 Speaker 2: Pulls out like like a little like a feather, like. 43 00:02:34,160 --> 00:02:37,920 Speaker 4: Yeah, like a record. Yeah, there's got to be a 44 00:02:37,960 --> 00:02:38,760 Speaker 4: science name for that. 45 00:02:39,160 --> 00:02:45,000 Speaker 1: There is, hopefully, you guys outside, we we do have 46 00:02:45,240 --> 00:02:48,519 Speaker 1: We've been thinking about this. We've been thinking about, uh, 47 00:02:48,639 --> 00:02:52,919 Speaker 1: the the iconic image of nights in Shining Armor because 48 00:02:53,000 --> 00:02:58,320 Speaker 1: as round tables, lances of lots, uh, there's no shortage 49 00:02:58,440 --> 00:03:02,760 Speaker 1: of fascinating painting work of works of literature and film 50 00:03:02,800 --> 00:03:04,399 Speaker 1: and TV now like Game. 51 00:03:04,200 --> 00:03:06,720 Speaker 4: Of Thrones, Monty Python and The Holy Grail. Is how 52 00:03:06,760 --> 00:03:09,160 Speaker 4: I know anything about the medieval time at all? 53 00:03:09,240 --> 00:03:11,880 Speaker 1: Frankly, yeah, 'tis but a scratch shout out to the 54 00:03:11,960 --> 00:03:15,800 Speaker 1: knights and knee. But no. You recall how these things 55 00:03:16,000 --> 00:03:21,400 Speaker 1: always depict these absolute warriors who were plated up like 56 00:03:21,720 --> 00:03:25,919 Speaker 1: little mech like mechs, dude, and they're they're doing all 57 00:03:25,960 --> 00:03:29,440 Speaker 1: sorts of crazy physical stunts and all kinds of punishing 58 00:03:29,520 --> 00:03:30,320 Speaker 1: weather and. 59 00:03:30,320 --> 00:03:34,440 Speaker 4: Yirling around those flaily thingies, the morning Stars, the Evening Star, 60 00:03:34,560 --> 00:03:35,520 Speaker 4: morning Stars. 61 00:03:35,200 --> 00:03:38,280 Speaker 1: Morning Star, You nailed the line. And then they fight, 62 00:03:38,600 --> 00:03:41,960 Speaker 1: despite the fact that they're carrying hundreds of pounds of 63 00:03:42,080 --> 00:03:46,640 Speaker 1: armor on them. They fight for hours against anybody and 64 00:03:46,960 --> 00:03:51,160 Speaker 1: they You watch this and at some point right during 65 00:03:51,280 --> 00:03:55,200 Speaker 1: a battle scene, you have to say, wouldn't most modern 66 00:03:55,280 --> 00:03:59,720 Speaker 1: people collapse after just a short period of even running 67 00:03:59,800 --> 00:04:00,880 Speaker 1: or walking briskly? 68 00:04:01,040 --> 00:04:03,600 Speaker 4: Well, because unlike the mechs ben, these don't have any 69 00:04:03,880 --> 00:04:06,960 Speaker 4: exoskeletal robo attachments. 70 00:04:07,480 --> 00:04:09,360 Speaker 2: This is a burden born by humans. 71 00:04:09,560 --> 00:04:11,760 Speaker 4: And yes, you know, because you've got to think there 72 00:04:11,760 --> 00:04:14,320 Speaker 4: are different situations where this kind of armor might have 73 00:04:14,360 --> 00:04:17,080 Speaker 4: been employed. The medieval times of it all being the 74 00:04:17,080 --> 00:04:20,640 Speaker 4: attorneys a little more you know, controlled, and then of 75 00:04:20,680 --> 00:04:25,520 Speaker 4: course you got folks literally charging into battle against you know, 76 00:04:25,600 --> 00:04:27,960 Speaker 4: an opponent that's out there to murder them. 77 00:04:28,200 --> 00:04:32,880 Speaker 1: Right, Yeah, And that's our question today. Did knights really 78 00:04:32,960 --> 00:04:43,920 Speaker 1: wear suits of armor? To get into this? We were 79 00:04:44,000 --> 00:04:49,120 Speaker 1: talking a little bit about sports off air. One interesting 80 00:04:49,160 --> 00:04:55,520 Speaker 1: thing about football is that there's very little protective gear soccer, 81 00:04:55,560 --> 00:04:58,800 Speaker 1: I mean football, yeah, with shint guards is the one 82 00:04:58,800 --> 00:05:00,440 Speaker 1: that I always remember from being youth. 83 00:05:00,560 --> 00:05:02,960 Speaker 2: Do they still wear shin guards? Is that part of 84 00:05:03,000 --> 00:05:03,240 Speaker 2: the kit? 85 00:05:04,520 --> 00:05:07,440 Speaker 1: I don't know. But there's a great show by our 86 00:05:07,440 --> 00:05:12,200 Speaker 1: pal Miles called Ain't It Footy which is examining examining 87 00:05:12,240 --> 00:05:17,080 Speaker 1: football when we're talking about armor. What's interesting, guys, is 88 00:05:17,120 --> 00:05:23,760 Speaker 1: that for most of early human history, humanity was wrestling 89 00:05:23,960 --> 00:05:27,720 Speaker 1: with this huge life threatening dilemma. They were the smartest 90 00:05:27,720 --> 00:05:31,280 Speaker 1: creatures they knew, and the humans evolved to specialize in 91 00:05:31,360 --> 00:05:35,760 Speaker 1: various things like running long distances persistence hunting, But all 92 00:05:35,800 --> 00:05:40,760 Speaker 1: that specialization comes with a price. Humans don't have a 93 00:05:40,800 --> 00:05:44,040 Speaker 1: protective shell like a turtle or an armadillo. They can't 94 00:05:44,080 --> 00:05:48,680 Speaker 1: regenerate limbs like some lizards or other creatures. Humans are 95 00:05:49,279 --> 00:05:52,360 Speaker 1: bestified as squishy. 96 00:05:52,440 --> 00:05:55,560 Speaker 4: Yeah, they are perishable creatures. 97 00:05:55,680 --> 00:05:59,160 Speaker 2: They are dainty, delicate little flowers. For sure. We don't 98 00:05:59,160 --> 00:06:00,240 Speaker 2: do well under. 99 00:06:01,600 --> 00:06:04,679 Speaker 1: So if you don't have a shell, if you don't 100 00:06:04,720 --> 00:06:11,120 Speaker 1: have a great powerful maw of sharp teeth, if you 101 00:06:11,160 --> 00:06:14,640 Speaker 1: can't regenerate limbs, you have to rely on your tool 102 00:06:14,720 --> 00:06:18,279 Speaker 1: making abilities to make up for all the stuff you lack. 103 00:06:18,480 --> 00:06:22,560 Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean, the human superpower or ultimate adaptive capability 104 00:06:22,600 --> 00:06:25,440 Speaker 4: would be the brain, the ability to reason, the ability 105 00:06:25,480 --> 00:06:28,120 Speaker 4: to think about thinking and figure this stuff out to 106 00:06:28,520 --> 00:06:30,799 Speaker 4: you know, improve their situation. 107 00:06:30,800 --> 00:06:34,640 Speaker 1: One hundred percent, dude. And this is why we find 108 00:06:34,680 --> 00:06:39,520 Speaker 1: it no surprise that body armor is an ancient human invention. 109 00:06:39,720 --> 00:06:42,840 Speaker 1: The first records of something like body armor as opposed 110 00:06:42,880 --> 00:06:47,279 Speaker 1: to you know, regular clothing is found in ancient sue Mare, 111 00:06:47,640 --> 00:06:52,120 Speaker 1: in ancient Samaria, in today's Southern Rock. And then if 112 00:06:52,120 --> 00:06:56,360 Speaker 1: you fast forward to like fourteen hundred BCE, you see 113 00:06:56,520 --> 00:06:59,760 Speaker 1: the emergence of something like heavy plate armor, usually like 114 00:06:59,760 --> 00:07:02,240 Speaker 1: a chest plate, just the one kind of like how 115 00:07:02,279 --> 00:07:03,920 Speaker 1: you would see a bulletproof vest today. 116 00:07:05,000 --> 00:07:06,680 Speaker 2: Yeah, you know what, I'm always fascinated by her. 117 00:07:06,680 --> 00:07:09,200 Speaker 4: When I think about like history of armor, I just 118 00:07:09,200 --> 00:07:11,200 Speaker 4: think about the kind of stuff that those kids wore 119 00:07:11,200 --> 00:07:14,160 Speaker 4: in the movie Hook, you know, like pecis of wood, 120 00:07:14,560 --> 00:07:17,600 Speaker 4: you know, various little tracks that they find lying around 121 00:07:18,160 --> 00:07:21,040 Speaker 4: leather under carriages, you know, I mean I think that 122 00:07:21,160 --> 00:07:24,920 Speaker 4: was sort of really the earliest form of ballistic protection 123 00:07:25,120 --> 00:07:29,120 Speaker 4: would be just real sturdy hide and the material. 124 00:07:29,200 --> 00:07:33,679 Speaker 1: Way more common than the armor that you see in films. 125 00:07:33,760 --> 00:07:36,040 Speaker 1: We know, of course, shout out to the Far East. 126 00:07:36,080 --> 00:07:38,559 Speaker 1: We know those folks had a deep history of armor 127 00:07:38,640 --> 00:07:43,520 Speaker 1: because again they realized factory setting human skin is pretty vulnerable. 128 00:07:44,000 --> 00:07:47,120 Speaker 1: That's why we invent in clothing right in each of 129 00:07:47,160 --> 00:07:49,840 Speaker 1: these cases. And I know you love this concept. We 130 00:07:49,920 --> 00:07:54,160 Speaker 1: see parallel thinking. It depends the armor they make, depends 131 00:07:54,160 --> 00:07:58,880 Speaker 1: on the material resources and the crafting techniques that their 132 00:07:59,040 --> 00:08:02,520 Speaker 1: arbors had at the time. So it's interesting, and shout 133 00:08:02,520 --> 00:08:07,080 Speaker 1: out to our research associate Jabari. It's interesting to think 134 00:08:07,160 --> 00:08:12,880 Speaker 1: that if we took a blacksmith from medieval Europe and 135 00:08:13,040 --> 00:08:16,920 Speaker 1: showed him armor from far Japan or from China, he 136 00:08:16,960 --> 00:08:20,480 Speaker 1: would be fascinated by the different materials. He'd be fascinated 137 00:08:20,520 --> 00:08:24,480 Speaker 1: by the manufacturing, but he would immediately know exactly what 138 00:08:24,560 --> 00:08:27,440 Speaker 1: he was looking at because he was making the same 139 00:08:27,440 --> 00:08:28,160 Speaker 1: stuff too. Well. 140 00:08:28,240 --> 00:08:30,400 Speaker 4: I mean, this is the kind of parallel thinking that 141 00:08:30,600 --> 00:08:33,920 Speaker 4: doesn't isn't doesn't require too much of elite because, as 142 00:08:33,920 --> 00:08:37,640 Speaker 4: you said, man, humans are inherently squishy creatures, and it 143 00:08:37,679 --> 00:08:41,680 Speaker 4: is a very self serving and pretty intuitive idea to 144 00:08:42,040 --> 00:08:44,320 Speaker 4: what if we could protect ourselves from getting squished? 145 00:08:44,760 --> 00:08:49,720 Speaker 1: Exactly. Yeah, And our hypothetical Blacksmith here is, you know, 146 00:08:50,120 --> 00:08:52,960 Speaker 1: the odds are stacked in his favor because armor is 147 00:08:53,080 --> 00:08:53,760 Speaker 1: human shaped. 148 00:08:53,960 --> 00:08:56,800 Speaker 4: Oh, I mean, gosh. Another one, yes, percent. Another one 149 00:08:56,840 --> 00:09:00,440 Speaker 4: that comes to mind is there is a segment in 150 00:09:00,640 --> 00:09:08,400 Speaker 4: the incredibly delightful Cohen Brothers anthology film was It Buster Scruggs. Yeah, yeah, yeah, 151 00:09:08,520 --> 00:09:13,440 Speaker 4: where Stephen Root, the delightful character actor who plays like 152 00:09:13,520 --> 00:09:16,800 Speaker 4: a banker who's being robbed by I want to say, 153 00:09:16,960 --> 00:09:21,319 Speaker 4: James Franco just pre cancelation. He emerges from behind the 154 00:09:22,440 --> 00:09:25,800 Speaker 4: cash counter covered in pots and pans, you know, yeah, 155 00:09:25,920 --> 00:09:28,240 Speaker 4: And it's just like this stuff could have been improvised 156 00:09:28,320 --> 00:09:30,640 Speaker 4: so many ways, just by stuff that was laying around, 157 00:09:30,679 --> 00:09:33,320 Speaker 4: and it's just such a like human instinct to be like, 158 00:09:33,400 --> 00:09:36,000 Speaker 4: how do I kind of turtle up and protect myself? 159 00:09:36,960 --> 00:09:42,240 Speaker 1: And another thing that would astonish our hypothetical blacksmith would 160 00:09:42,280 --> 00:09:46,439 Speaker 1: be the sheer cost of this heavy fit. That's that's 161 00:09:46,480 --> 00:09:48,240 Speaker 1: where we get to the myth busting. And that's why 162 00:09:48,280 --> 00:09:52,880 Speaker 1: I think you're right about people mcguvery more often than 163 00:09:52,920 --> 00:09:57,560 Speaker 1: they manufactured. You know, like we all remember those films 164 00:09:57,880 --> 00:10:03,320 Speaker 1: where we all know how Hollywood loves to spotlight military 165 00:10:03,400 --> 00:10:07,480 Speaker 1: dress and huge battle scenes. You got kitted out nights. 166 00:10:07,520 --> 00:10:14,880 Speaker 1: They're charging toward the enemy on horses, They're waving their lances, screaming, treating, yeah, yeah, 167 00:10:14,960 --> 00:10:19,480 Speaker 1: hootin and such. That stuff definitely did happen, but it 168 00:10:19,600 --> 00:10:22,960 Speaker 1: was nowhere near as glamorous as the films imply for sure. 169 00:10:22,960 --> 00:10:24,920 Speaker 4: And if you do get a chance, I know we 170 00:10:24,960 --> 00:10:27,360 Speaker 4: always are shouting out the met in New York City. 171 00:10:27,520 --> 00:10:30,720 Speaker 4: There's a wing of that massive place that is all 172 00:10:30,800 --> 00:10:33,600 Speaker 4: just like medieval armor, and you're gonna see a range 173 00:10:33,640 --> 00:10:39,280 Speaker 4: of stuff, including the much more elaborate, fearsome, looking for 174 00:10:39,360 --> 00:10:42,080 Speaker 4: lack of a better word, at the moment, ceremonial kind 175 00:10:42,120 --> 00:10:44,280 Speaker 4: of stuff. Oh, it would have maybe been designed to 176 00:10:44,360 --> 00:10:48,200 Speaker 4: be worn by a king, or to designate some higher 177 00:10:48,320 --> 00:10:51,840 Speaker 4: level figure who maybe wasn't necessarily going to be out 178 00:10:51,840 --> 00:10:55,439 Speaker 4: there swinging the sword, but needed to look the part. 179 00:10:56,040 --> 00:10:59,400 Speaker 1: Yeah, you know, it's weird too, because now you mentioned that. 180 00:11:00,160 --> 00:11:02,440 Speaker 1: One thing that always bugged me in the world of 181 00:11:02,520 --> 00:11:06,200 Speaker 1: rap and hip hop would be when more conservative folks 182 00:11:06,240 --> 00:11:09,920 Speaker 1: would criticize an album cover that shows, maybe shows a 183 00:11:09,920 --> 00:11:13,200 Speaker 1: guy with a bunch of chains, gold chains on his neck, 184 00:11:13,400 --> 00:11:15,360 Speaker 1: and he's holding a couple of guns and he's got 185 00:11:15,400 --> 00:11:19,040 Speaker 1: a pile of cash. That's exactly what those portraits were like. 186 00:11:19,360 --> 00:11:22,719 Speaker 4: Yeah, oh goshde only it was more like. 187 00:11:23,280 --> 00:11:28,360 Speaker 5: A sword, some sword coal, perhaps maybe a giant roast 188 00:11:28,360 --> 00:11:32,000 Speaker 5: beast of some sort, and piled up coins and perhaps 189 00:11:32,240 --> 00:11:33,800 Speaker 5: a damsel of some variety. 190 00:11:34,000 --> 00:11:36,280 Speaker 1: And of course, yeah, those suits are part of the 191 00:11:36,360 --> 00:11:38,000 Speaker 1: flex because and often. 192 00:11:37,720 --> 00:11:41,000 Speaker 2: A very skinny looking wayfish dog. Yes, weird. 193 00:11:41,080 --> 00:11:44,559 Speaker 1: For some reason, I always like to picture the great 194 00:11:44,720 --> 00:11:48,880 Speaker 1: masters of art back in the day saying, uh, well, 195 00:11:48,960 --> 00:11:50,760 Speaker 1: we can add one more thing in the corner. And 196 00:11:50,800 --> 00:11:54,640 Speaker 1: I'm actually pretty good at drawing this specific type of dog. 197 00:11:55,080 --> 00:12:01,280 Speaker 2: Oh yeah, exactly, the wayfish, little spind So this is 198 00:12:01,360 --> 00:12:03,959 Speaker 2: why it's such a flex. A full suit of armor 199 00:12:04,200 --> 00:12:07,000 Speaker 2: to get in your heads, ridiculous historians, the kind of 200 00:12:07,120 --> 00:12:11,560 Speaker 2: armor you're thinking about right now in the fourteen hundred CE, 201 00:12:12,160 --> 00:12:15,520 Speaker 2: this would have cost the equivalent of three million dollars 202 00:12:15,800 --> 00:12:19,600 Speaker 2: for one suit. What kind of materials are we talking about? Ben? 203 00:12:19,760 --> 00:12:22,040 Speaker 2: Is this made of like solid gold? 204 00:12:22,559 --> 00:12:27,680 Speaker 1: So much stuff? The problem was manufacturing these things took 205 00:12:28,000 --> 00:12:31,920 Speaker 1: so much time. You're essentially telling a team of very 206 00:12:32,000 --> 00:12:36,840 Speaker 1: highly skilled laborers this is the rest of your year. 207 00:12:37,440 --> 00:12:40,600 Speaker 2: So okay, well no, it's I mean, and I know 208 00:12:40,600 --> 00:12:43,040 Speaker 2: I've been nerding out on watches lately, as if you been. 209 00:12:43,240 --> 00:12:44,600 Speaker 2: At least we have been together. 210 00:12:45,440 --> 00:12:48,680 Speaker 4: There are some companies that will produce like fifty watches 211 00:12:48,720 --> 00:12:53,120 Speaker 4: a year because it is all hand machined, designed in 212 00:12:53,240 --> 00:12:56,080 Speaker 4: house like and those are the ones that maybe retail 213 00:12:56,200 --> 00:12:59,160 Speaker 4: might be two hundred thousand dollars, but there's so few 214 00:12:59,200 --> 00:13:01,800 Speaker 4: of them that they become worth like five times that 215 00:13:01,960 --> 00:13:04,840 Speaker 4: on auction or in resale, same deal. It's a matter 216 00:13:04,920 --> 00:13:08,000 Speaker 4: of time, commitment, and how many of these things can 217 00:13:08,040 --> 00:13:08,600 Speaker 4: you pump out? 218 00:13:08,640 --> 00:13:10,680 Speaker 2: These suits? And who are you working for? 219 00:13:10,760 --> 00:13:14,000 Speaker 4: Like, it's one thing to make stuff for the troops, 220 00:13:14,040 --> 00:13:16,360 Speaker 4: for the infantry, but it's another thing to be working 221 00:13:16,360 --> 00:13:19,960 Speaker 4: on these much more elaborate, high end pieces that would 222 00:13:20,000 --> 00:13:23,240 Speaker 4: be for generals and top folks. 223 00:13:23,600 --> 00:13:27,360 Speaker 1: Yeah, especially when you think of the ornate filigrees and 224 00:13:27,440 --> 00:13:31,599 Speaker 1: all the details, which is the armor version of complications 225 00:13:31,640 --> 00:13:32,839 Speaker 1: and a fancy watch. 226 00:13:33,360 --> 00:13:36,560 Speaker 2: You got, you got different combinations of metals. 227 00:13:36,600 --> 00:13:39,320 Speaker 4: You've got all these little touches that maybe absolutely are 228 00:13:39,400 --> 00:13:42,719 Speaker 4: gold or various precious metals mixed in with the more 229 00:13:42,800 --> 00:13:43,520 Speaker 4: durable stuff. 230 00:13:43,600 --> 00:13:45,000 Speaker 2: Yeah. I'm excited to get into this, Ben. 231 00:13:45,240 --> 00:13:47,880 Speaker 1: Oh yeah, yeah, well we know, like you were saying, no, 232 00:13:48,840 --> 00:13:52,600 Speaker 1: most soldiers in real life, and indeed a lot of 233 00:13:52,640 --> 00:13:56,240 Speaker 1: people who are technically knights, they had nothing near this stuff. 234 00:13:56,520 --> 00:13:59,240 Speaker 1: They did the best with what they had a lot 235 00:13:59,240 --> 00:14:02,000 Speaker 1: of times, like and pants would just like a little 236 00:14:02,040 --> 00:14:02,640 Speaker 1: chain mail. 237 00:14:02,840 --> 00:14:04,160 Speaker 2: Maybe a chess plate. 238 00:14:04,160 --> 00:14:06,959 Speaker 1: If they knew the Celts. Yeah, maybe a chess plate 239 00:14:07,000 --> 00:14:10,880 Speaker 1: if they had a good lord who would supply them well. 240 00:14:11,080 --> 00:14:15,959 Speaker 1: During the early Middle Ages, a knight's armor was basically 241 00:14:16,440 --> 00:14:19,760 Speaker 1: what you described earlier. It was a padded garment. They 242 00:14:19,840 --> 00:14:22,880 Speaker 1: might have a simple metal helmet, they'd have a big 243 00:14:22,920 --> 00:14:25,760 Speaker 1: wooden shield, and if they were lucky, it'd be reinforced 244 00:14:25,760 --> 00:14:29,280 Speaker 1: with metal. Like you said, they did also use chain 245 00:14:29,320 --> 00:14:34,640 Speaker 1: mail because it let you move around still, and it 246 00:14:34,800 --> 00:14:39,200 Speaker 1: was way better at stopping cutting weapons. But it wouldn't 247 00:14:39,200 --> 00:14:42,160 Speaker 1: It wouldn't protect you against a blunt force object. 248 00:14:41,920 --> 00:14:42,440 Speaker 2: Like a mace. 249 00:14:42,800 --> 00:14:46,520 Speaker 4: No, no, gosh, rip that guy in Lord of the 250 00:14:46,560 --> 00:14:50,040 Speaker 4: Seven Kingdoms Night of the Seven Kingdoms. Rather, no spoilers, 251 00:14:50,080 --> 00:14:56,880 Speaker 4: but boiled boy, a thing happens. 252 00:15:00,000 --> 00:15:02,560 Speaker 1: I love the point you made earlier about how we 253 00:15:02,600 --> 00:15:04,920 Speaker 1: moved to the High Middle Ages around the eleventh to 254 00:15:05,040 --> 00:15:09,560 Speaker 1: thirteenth centuries, and we see, just like the janissaries in 255 00:15:09,600 --> 00:15:13,080 Speaker 1: the Ottoman Empire. Stay tuned for that episode, these folks 256 00:15:13,120 --> 00:15:18,720 Speaker 1: who were the nightly class, they became more of a 257 00:15:20,320 --> 00:15:26,520 Speaker 1: political class, right. That's where we see the more sophisticated designs. 258 00:15:26,560 --> 00:15:29,720 Speaker 1: That's also where we see their horses getting kitted out too. 259 00:15:29,920 --> 00:15:33,600 Speaker 1: I feel so bad for those guys, But you've met horses. 260 00:15:33,640 --> 00:15:34,400 Speaker 1: They're skiddish. 261 00:15:34,960 --> 00:15:37,880 Speaker 4: They do tend to spook, that's true, which will cause 262 00:15:37,920 --> 00:15:38,560 Speaker 4: them to kick. 263 00:15:38,920 --> 00:15:40,720 Speaker 2: And do not want to be on the receiving end 264 00:15:40,760 --> 00:15:41,200 Speaker 2: of one of. 265 00:15:41,160 --> 00:15:45,600 Speaker 1: Those, even on a slow going farm. I'm worried when 266 00:15:45,640 --> 00:15:49,000 Speaker 1: I run into horses on friendly terms, just because they 267 00:15:49,080 --> 00:15:52,040 Speaker 1: seem very stressed out as very fast prey out. 268 00:15:51,920 --> 00:15:52,840 Speaker 2: Me and they bite. 269 00:15:53,400 --> 00:15:55,720 Speaker 1: Yeah, and they get a little attitude. Man. 270 00:15:56,080 --> 00:15:58,320 Speaker 2: No, And I don't want to sound like I'm scared 271 00:15:58,320 --> 00:15:58,760 Speaker 2: of horses. 272 00:15:58,800 --> 00:16:01,720 Speaker 4: I think horses are gorgeous, majestic creatures, but they've got 273 00:16:01,720 --> 00:16:02,840 Speaker 4: some peculiarities. 274 00:16:03,120 --> 00:16:06,280 Speaker 1: Yeah, just like the humans. They evolved to specialize in 275 00:16:06,360 --> 00:16:11,120 Speaker 1: certain things, and their thing is being hyper aware and running. 276 00:16:10,800 --> 00:16:14,120 Speaker 2: Quickly run away. 277 00:16:14,040 --> 00:16:17,400 Speaker 1: Yes, yeah, like the I picture a horse dad talking 278 00:16:17,440 --> 00:16:20,200 Speaker 1: to his kid and giving him life advice, and it's like, well, 279 00:16:20,320 --> 00:16:23,520 Speaker 1: young horseboy, you're growing up. You're gonna be a horseman, 280 00:16:23,640 --> 00:16:27,280 Speaker 1: a stallion soon. So I'll tell you what your grandfather 281 00:16:27,400 --> 00:16:33,400 Speaker 1: told me. Always run away. 282 00:16:31,520 --> 00:16:33,520 Speaker 2: Yeah, And if you're in a horror movie, never run 283 00:16:33,640 --> 00:16:36,840 Speaker 2: up the stairs. No. So it's just bad move. 284 00:16:37,680 --> 00:16:42,840 Speaker 1: So these we're just exercising empathy here, folks, because these horses, 285 00:16:42,880 --> 00:16:45,720 Speaker 1: who are already skittish, are thrust in the heat of 286 00:16:45,760 --> 00:16:50,040 Speaker 1: battle while essentially wearing an exoskeleton definitely not their idea 287 00:16:50,040 --> 00:16:54,240 Speaker 1: of good day, and horse armor was a whole other expense. 288 00:16:54,360 --> 00:16:58,720 Speaker 1: So they're these lords and these well to do nights 289 00:16:59,080 --> 00:17:03,400 Speaker 1: are spending the equivalent of millions of dollars on two 290 00:17:03,440 --> 00:17:06,560 Speaker 1: separate pieces, two separate suits of armor, one for them, 291 00:17:06,640 --> 00:17:11,080 Speaker 1: one for the horse. It's it's weird because the chest 292 00:17:11,119 --> 00:17:14,760 Speaker 1: plate was always a thing. But it's not until like 293 00:17:14,800 --> 00:17:19,439 Speaker 1: the fourteenth and fifteenth centuries that we see nights in 294 00:17:19,560 --> 00:17:22,920 Speaker 1: full armor the way we would imagine them in the films. 295 00:17:23,040 --> 00:17:28,000 Speaker 1: And that's because it took a while for breakthroughs in metallurgy. 296 00:17:28,800 --> 00:17:29,920 Speaker 1: Why am I saying that wrong? 297 00:17:30,359 --> 00:17:31,000 Speaker 2: Metallurgy. 298 00:17:31,280 --> 00:17:33,480 Speaker 1: Metallurgy, Yeah, you got to hurry through it. Let's keep 299 00:17:33,480 --> 00:17:35,720 Speaker 1: that part it, let's do it. Yeah, metallurgy. 300 00:17:35,800 --> 00:17:38,440 Speaker 4: It's rare things that need to speak, though I guess 301 00:17:38,440 --> 00:17:39,640 Speaker 4: in our profession it does. 302 00:17:39,440 --> 00:17:41,639 Speaker 2: Come up from time to time, right right. 303 00:17:41,840 --> 00:17:43,840 Speaker 3: Metallurgy is one of these words that if you look 304 00:17:43,920 --> 00:17:45,800 Speaker 3: at it, you can't say it right. 305 00:17:45,880 --> 00:17:48,960 Speaker 4: Oh, and say it enough times, it loses all semblance 306 00:17:49,000 --> 00:17:50,479 Speaker 4: of meaning or reason. 307 00:17:50,760 --> 00:17:51,879 Speaker 1: Semantic satiation. 308 00:17:52,080 --> 00:17:54,520 Speaker 3: Yeah, nonsense basically like English. 309 00:17:54,720 --> 00:17:56,840 Speaker 1: I mean, most of English is nonsense. 310 00:17:57,840 --> 00:18:00,760 Speaker 2: Okay, So these this is the. 311 00:18:00,119 --> 00:18:03,440 Speaker 1: Time in history where the suits cover nearly every part 312 00:18:03,440 --> 00:18:06,160 Speaker 1: of the body. They're custom fitted to you. You have 313 00:18:06,240 --> 00:18:08,120 Speaker 1: to be rich to have one, or have a very 314 00:18:08,160 --> 00:18:12,400 Speaker 1: wealthy patron. A full suit of armor weighs between thirty 315 00:18:12,480 --> 00:18:16,399 Speaker 1: to fifty kilograms that's sixty six to one hundred and 316 00:18:16,400 --> 00:18:17,959 Speaker 1: ten pounds in freedom units. 317 00:18:18,440 --> 00:18:21,160 Speaker 4: Ben Can we talk stop it? Can we talk about 318 00:18:21,160 --> 00:18:23,439 Speaker 4: the codpiece? I think we're bearing the lead here. 319 00:18:24,600 --> 00:18:27,119 Speaker 2: Yeah, all right, the codpiece, tell us about it? 320 00:18:27,160 --> 00:18:27,400 Speaker 1: Goal. 321 00:18:27,560 --> 00:18:30,359 Speaker 4: Well, Bennet's an armored or padded if you weren't lucky 322 00:18:30,480 --> 00:18:34,760 Speaker 4: enough covering for the male groin on late medieval Renaissance 323 00:18:34,840 --> 00:18:35,760 Speaker 4: armor and clothing. 324 00:18:36,400 --> 00:18:38,240 Speaker 2: It was originally designed as. 325 00:18:38,119 --> 00:18:40,960 Speaker 4: Like a practical flap that would join the front part 326 00:18:41,040 --> 00:18:44,040 Speaker 4: of the under hose, which I guess is sort of 327 00:18:44,080 --> 00:18:46,960 Speaker 4: like a yeah, kind of a not a jerkin I'm 328 00:18:46,960 --> 00:18:49,800 Speaker 4: gonna get in trouble, you know, the sort of long 329 00:18:49,920 --> 00:18:53,080 Speaker 4: john under parts of the shit. Thank you, thank you, 330 00:18:53,200 --> 00:18:57,359 Speaker 4: remove thy shift. It protected, of course, the genitals, and 331 00:18:57,440 --> 00:18:59,840 Speaker 4: often it was a bit of a step up from 332 00:18:59,880 --> 00:19:03,040 Speaker 4: that and included a steel shaped plate on top of 333 00:19:03,080 --> 00:19:03,640 Speaker 4: the padding. 334 00:19:04,119 --> 00:19:05,879 Speaker 2: In the fifteenth and sixteenth centuries. 335 00:19:05,920 --> 00:19:10,040 Speaker 4: By the late to mid fifteen hundreds, it became another 336 00:19:10,119 --> 00:19:11,720 Speaker 4: thing that would be exaggerated. 337 00:19:11,840 --> 00:19:15,240 Speaker 2: It was fashional status. It was so embellius. 338 00:19:15,359 --> 00:19:17,080 Speaker 1: It's out like bustles went crazy. 339 00:19:17,160 --> 00:19:19,359 Speaker 2: Witness ye, my cod piece. 340 00:19:21,119 --> 00:19:24,560 Speaker 1: That's why there are so many, so many paintings from 341 00:19:24,600 --> 00:19:27,480 Speaker 1: back in the day of a guy that we knew 342 00:19:27,680 --> 00:19:33,800 Speaker 1: was taken seriously, but has a ridiculous fake dog basically 343 00:19:33,920 --> 00:19:34,560 Speaker 1: a bulge. 344 00:19:34,800 --> 00:19:38,080 Speaker 4: Yeah yeah, it's like the spinal tap bit where he 345 00:19:38,560 --> 00:19:41,440 Speaker 4: goes through the airport security and it keeps going off, 346 00:19:41,440 --> 00:19:44,879 Speaker 4: and then finally he removes the cucumber wrapped in tinfoil 347 00:19:45,000 --> 00:19:45,960 Speaker 4: from his trousers. 348 00:19:48,000 --> 00:19:50,880 Speaker 1: Oh also shout out to all our European friends who 349 00:19:51,280 --> 00:19:55,040 Speaker 1: learned about ranch. I don't like ranch unless it's homemade. 350 00:19:55,080 --> 00:19:59,040 Speaker 1: But apparently the TSA has had to warn World Cup 351 00:19:59,160 --> 00:20:03,119 Speaker 1: visitors that you can't bring bottles of ranch on the plane. 352 00:20:03,119 --> 00:20:04,679 Speaker 2: Well you can at they're travel sized. 353 00:20:05,160 --> 00:20:07,359 Speaker 1: If they're travel sized, if you are at the point 354 00:20:07,359 --> 00:20:10,760 Speaker 1: of ranch addiction where you have to have a ranch flask, 355 00:20:11,000 --> 00:20:11,720 Speaker 1: basically you. 356 00:20:11,760 --> 00:20:13,520 Speaker 2: Gotta be got. I think you got to bring your own. 357 00:20:13,600 --> 00:20:17,080 Speaker 4: I don't think they come like that in travel servings, 358 00:20:17,080 --> 00:20:17,600 Speaker 4: but they should. 359 00:20:17,640 --> 00:20:18,720 Speaker 2: Man, people love that's. 360 00:20:18,520 --> 00:20:19,280 Speaker 1: A great idea. 361 00:20:19,840 --> 00:20:23,920 Speaker 4: Uh we we also know just travel sauces in general. 362 00:20:23,960 --> 00:20:25,800 Speaker 2: Ben you know, yeah, yeah, yeah. 363 00:20:25,680 --> 00:20:30,560 Speaker 1: Empty out those little Walgreens or Dwayne Reid shampoo bottles. 364 00:20:30,320 --> 00:20:32,200 Speaker 4: Because I told you how I learned my lesson the 365 00:20:32,240 --> 00:20:34,679 Speaker 4: hard way and had, like, you know, one hundred dollars 366 00:20:34,720 --> 00:20:37,440 Speaker 4: worth of nice hot sauces. Confiscated. That's right for being 367 00:20:37,480 --> 00:20:39,800 Speaker 4: in my carry on. We'll make that mistake again. 368 00:20:40,160 --> 00:20:42,760 Speaker 3: Travel Ranch did jump in here real quick. I am 369 00:20:42,800 --> 00:20:45,280 Speaker 3: actually pulling my friend Meredith, who's a weirdo. She brings 370 00:20:45,359 --> 00:20:47,920 Speaker 3: her own tortilla chips with her and stuff like that. 371 00:20:47,960 --> 00:20:49,879 Speaker 3: So I have asked her, are you a Ranch fan? 372 00:20:49,960 --> 00:20:51,199 Speaker 3: And the I'm going to ask her a follow up 373 00:20:51,240 --> 00:20:54,359 Speaker 3: of seeing if she brings Ranch on trail. 374 00:20:54,440 --> 00:20:57,199 Speaker 2: You could broad in the question just to travel sauces travel. 375 00:20:57,840 --> 00:21:01,760 Speaker 4: Oh, I'm sorry, she brings travel cononment so amazing. We'll 376 00:21:01,800 --> 00:21:05,359 Speaker 4: ask you what kind of receptacles are best for these things? 377 00:21:05,480 --> 00:21:09,760 Speaker 1: Yeah, all right, thank you. As we're waiting for the update, 378 00:21:09,840 --> 00:21:13,560 Speaker 1: let's return to knights and shining armor. Uh. This full 379 00:21:13,560 --> 00:21:19,440 Speaker 1: plate armor reaches its peak. It's real era of fanciness 380 00:21:19,480 --> 00:21:22,040 Speaker 1: in the fifteenth and sixteenth century. 381 00:21:22,440 --> 00:21:22,720 Speaker 2: Uh. 382 00:21:22,760 --> 00:21:26,560 Speaker 1: The full suit is referred to as a panoply at times, 383 00:21:26,920 --> 00:21:30,320 Speaker 1: and it's a feature basically, Yeah, it's all the stuff 384 00:21:30,359 --> 00:21:33,560 Speaker 1: together and it's a feature at the very end of 385 00:21:33,560 --> 00:21:38,880 Speaker 1: the Middle Ages going into the Renaissance. It's also it's 386 00:21:39,000 --> 00:21:44,040 Speaker 1: popular image comes to us because of the ceremonies you 387 00:21:44,080 --> 00:21:48,040 Speaker 1: were describing earlier. There jousting. They would make special armor 388 00:21:49,040 --> 00:21:52,879 Speaker 1: just for jousting because these were wealthy people with a 389 00:21:52,920 --> 00:21:56,560 Speaker 1: lot of disposable income. And you know, like you were saying, 390 00:21:56,680 --> 00:22:00,000 Speaker 1: I think it's important that we acknowledge even the fans 391 00:22:00,080 --> 00:22:04,359 Speaker 1: see his stuff was made from a series of materials. 392 00:22:04,359 --> 00:22:07,480 Speaker 1: You had iron, you had leather, textiles, you had steel, 393 00:22:08,040 --> 00:22:10,840 Speaker 1: and the plate armor is made of steel because it's 394 00:22:10,960 --> 00:22:14,760 Speaker 1: very hard, but it's also flexible if you know how 395 00:22:14,800 --> 00:22:17,800 Speaker 1: to work with it. The only reason they had steel 396 00:22:17,800 --> 00:22:21,720 Speaker 1: plate armor is because some of the blacksmith boffins, the 397 00:22:21,760 --> 00:22:26,120 Speaker 1: metal aer just figured out how to quench and temper 398 00:22:26,680 --> 00:22:31,680 Speaker 1: these steel plates so they wouldn't be brittle, because if 399 00:22:31,720 --> 00:22:34,399 Speaker 1: you don't make it the right way, then that mace 400 00:22:34,480 --> 00:22:36,560 Speaker 1: that you could have been saved from is just going 401 00:22:36,600 --> 00:22:37,399 Speaker 1: to crack your plate. 402 00:22:37,640 --> 00:22:39,640 Speaker 2: And isn't tempering where you heat it. 403 00:22:39,640 --> 00:22:42,439 Speaker 4: Up and bang it and then cool it down and 404 00:22:42,480 --> 00:22:45,119 Speaker 4: then do that again and every time it kind of 405 00:22:45,119 --> 00:22:46,480 Speaker 4: makes it stronger. 406 00:22:46,720 --> 00:22:47,719 Speaker 2: Or am I making that up? 407 00:22:47,840 --> 00:22:50,320 Speaker 1: No? I think you're right. Yeah, that's the quenching right 408 00:22:50,359 --> 00:22:52,560 Speaker 1: when you put it back in the water, and then. 409 00:22:52,680 --> 00:22:54,800 Speaker 2: What a satisfying shit makes. 410 00:22:55,240 --> 00:22:58,400 Speaker 1: That's how you know the climactic battle is coming up 411 00:22:58,520 --> 00:23:01,200 Speaker 1: in the third act of the film, right. 412 00:23:01,440 --> 00:23:03,600 Speaker 4: I always think of it's not really a night movie. 413 00:23:03,600 --> 00:23:05,600 Speaker 4: I mean, I guess it's sort of a modern night story. 414 00:23:05,600 --> 00:23:09,680 Speaker 4: But the film Mandy starring Nicholas Cage, there's a really 415 00:23:09,760 --> 00:23:13,879 Speaker 4: badass scene where he forges his own incredibly sick like 416 00:23:14,080 --> 00:23:17,959 Speaker 4: axe sword combo thing. But it also is like absurd 417 00:23:18,119 --> 00:23:20,159 Speaker 4: the timeline of it, Like it just shows them like 418 00:23:20,200 --> 00:23:22,520 Speaker 4: he just busts it out like in a you know, 419 00:23:22,600 --> 00:23:24,880 Speaker 4: an hour or even like in real time, like takes 420 00:23:24,920 --> 00:23:26,920 Speaker 4: a half an hour. It would take a long time 421 00:23:26,960 --> 00:23:28,560 Speaker 4: to make these kinds of things. 422 00:23:28,560 --> 00:23:32,960 Speaker 1: One hundred percent, and shout out to our pal, Nicholas Cage. 423 00:23:33,600 --> 00:23:38,399 Speaker 1: If you like superhero stuff and if you like investigative narratives, 424 00:23:38,480 --> 00:23:40,040 Speaker 1: do check out Spider Noir. 425 00:23:40,240 --> 00:23:41,360 Speaker 2: You're liking Spider Noir. 426 00:23:41,320 --> 00:23:42,880 Speaker 1: I'm liking it. I'm you're taking it man. 427 00:23:42,920 --> 00:23:44,480 Speaker 4: Yeah, I watched a bit of the first episode and 428 00:23:44,520 --> 00:23:47,280 Speaker 4: I liked it too. And I heard some complaints about 429 00:23:47,280 --> 00:23:49,600 Speaker 4: the black and white color combo thing not working for 430 00:23:49,640 --> 00:23:50,960 Speaker 4: some people, but it worked pretty well for me. 431 00:23:51,000 --> 00:23:52,600 Speaker 2: You could switch back and forth kind of neat. 432 00:23:52,560 --> 00:23:58,040 Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, pretty neat. Right, And we know that Knights 433 00:23:58,200 --> 00:24:02,240 Speaker 1: also had undergrus basically as you alluded to under the 434 00:24:02,240 --> 00:24:05,840 Speaker 1: metal armor. They're not naked, right, They don't just have 435 00:24:05,920 --> 00:24:09,280 Speaker 1: tidy whities or whatever the equivalent was. They have something 436 00:24:09,359 --> 00:24:12,960 Speaker 1: called a gambison made of quilted fabric. So it's kind 437 00:24:13,000 --> 00:24:15,600 Speaker 1: of like those oh what's the Japanese name for those 438 00:24:16,160 --> 00:24:18,360 Speaker 1: blanket outfits that we both love. 439 00:24:18,760 --> 00:24:21,400 Speaker 2: You picturing it, but I don't I don't know the name. 440 00:24:21,520 --> 00:24:23,520 Speaker 2: Do you mean like you you mean like a kigaroomy? 441 00:24:23,760 --> 00:24:25,680 Speaker 1: Yes, Yes, they're a roomy. 442 00:24:25,560 --> 00:24:28,399 Speaker 4: Yes, often shaped like a like a fun animal or 443 00:24:28,400 --> 00:24:29,040 Speaker 4: cartoon care. 444 00:24:29,480 --> 00:24:33,040 Speaker 1: Yeah. So these guys had this kind of inner exoskeleton 445 00:24:33,160 --> 00:24:34,800 Speaker 1: kigaroomy thing, kind of like. 446 00:24:34,720 --> 00:24:38,879 Speaker 4: The old Prospector's long John with the butt flap that 447 00:24:38,920 --> 00:24:40,360 Speaker 4: we often reference, like. 448 00:24:40,320 --> 00:24:44,000 Speaker 1: The red wool logs. Yeah, this this was entirely to 449 00:24:44,119 --> 00:24:48,199 Speaker 1: absorb the shock of a blow and also, you know, 450 00:24:49,000 --> 00:24:52,120 Speaker 1: treat yourself, babe. This is going to stop you from 451 00:24:52,160 --> 00:24:54,960 Speaker 1: getting chafe marks from your metal armor. 452 00:24:55,160 --> 00:24:56,919 Speaker 4: Well sure, and it's also going to soak up the 453 00:24:56,920 --> 00:25:00,359 Speaker 4: sweat and all of that stuff. And it does play 454 00:25:00,400 --> 00:25:04,520 Speaker 4: a role in the codpiece situation we were talking about earlier, 455 00:25:04,560 --> 00:25:08,000 Speaker 4: where if you needed to go poopoo or peepee on 456 00:25:08,080 --> 00:25:10,720 Speaker 4: the battlefield, you had to have access, so you would 457 00:25:10,760 --> 00:25:13,120 Speaker 4: like remove that cod piece and then undo the flap 458 00:25:13,119 --> 00:25:18,000 Speaker 4: on your whatever the thing is, and then you would go. Oftentimes, though, 459 00:25:18,040 --> 00:25:21,520 Speaker 4: to go number two, you really did need like your 460 00:25:21,560 --> 00:25:23,400 Speaker 4: caddy to help you out, your. 461 00:25:23,320 --> 00:25:25,760 Speaker 2: Squire squire, you know what I meant. 462 00:25:26,080 --> 00:25:28,800 Speaker 1: Yeah, No, it's the same thing. It's the caddy. It's 463 00:25:28,800 --> 00:25:31,520 Speaker 1: the squire. Like you had to have a squire in 464 00:25:31,560 --> 00:25:34,200 Speaker 1: case you fell off your horse, because this would weigh 465 00:25:34,240 --> 00:25:37,800 Speaker 1: so much that you would need somebody to give you 466 00:25:37,840 --> 00:25:41,439 Speaker 1: a little upsy daisy so you could get back on 467 00:25:41,600 --> 00:25:42,080 Speaker 1: the horse. 468 00:25:42,200 --> 00:25:46,120 Speaker 4: Well, And understandably, the caddies were not wearing that same 469 00:25:46,240 --> 00:25:49,680 Speaker 4: level of mail and armor, so they would have been 470 00:25:49,720 --> 00:25:52,400 Speaker 4: like some little sitting ducks, little rodeo clowns out there. 471 00:25:52,680 --> 00:25:56,000 Speaker 1: So you've got your regular underwear, You've got your gambison, 472 00:25:56,600 --> 00:25:58,639 Speaker 1: which is going to be stuffed with horse hair or 473 00:25:58,680 --> 00:26:02,080 Speaker 1: straw and ridden with your sweat, so, by the way, 474 00:26:02,119 --> 00:26:05,240 Speaker 1: you're gonna smell terrible. But you're not quite ready for 475 00:26:05,280 --> 00:26:08,320 Speaker 1: the plate yet. You have to wear something else over 476 00:26:08,359 --> 00:26:11,640 Speaker 1: your gambis, and it's a tight fitting garment called an 477 00:26:11,760 --> 00:26:16,480 Speaker 1: arming doublet or weirdly a poor point like pouring water point. 478 00:26:17,280 --> 00:26:21,520 Speaker 1: And this stuff is important because it has little loops 479 00:26:22,040 --> 00:26:27,160 Speaker 1: or little islets that let you lace in the armor. 480 00:26:27,480 --> 00:26:30,480 Speaker 1: So these guys got the armor sewn on that second 481 00:26:30,640 --> 00:26:34,919 Speaker 1: layer of fabric so that it wouldn't fall off in battle. 482 00:26:35,000 --> 00:26:36,240 Speaker 1: But sometimes it did. 483 00:26:36,800 --> 00:26:37,520 Speaker 2: Sometimes it did. 484 00:26:38,080 --> 00:26:40,560 Speaker 1: Sometimes you're like, oh no, my elbow is naked. 485 00:26:40,760 --> 00:26:42,800 Speaker 2: And sometimes you had to poop yourself. 486 00:26:42,960 --> 00:26:45,080 Speaker 1: And sometimes you did have to poop yourself. 487 00:26:45,119 --> 00:26:47,160 Speaker 2: This was sometimes you had to poop yourself. I mean, 488 00:26:47,160 --> 00:26:50,320 Speaker 2: that's just true. That's just a life thing that just happens. 489 00:26:50,440 --> 00:26:53,159 Speaker 1: And you know, this is way before the dawn of 490 00:26:53,320 --> 00:26:55,960 Speaker 1: diaper technology, which was stilling into infancy. 491 00:26:56,400 --> 00:26:59,440 Speaker 3: So to circle back around a friend, Meredith, she is 492 00:26:59,440 --> 00:27:02,119 Speaker 3: a fan of but she would not bring a travel 493 00:27:02,200 --> 00:27:03,200 Speaker 3: sized ranch. 494 00:27:03,080 --> 00:27:07,600 Speaker 2: With uh ranches available in the world. Okay, okay. 495 00:27:07,800 --> 00:27:10,440 Speaker 3: She insists that she will always have a hot sauce 496 00:27:10,480 --> 00:27:13,080 Speaker 3: on her and her always be flying. She hasn't our 497 00:27:13,119 --> 00:27:14,639 Speaker 3: work bag at all times. 498 00:27:14,640 --> 00:27:17,160 Speaker 1: All right, Yeah, like Beyonce or Hillary Clinton. 499 00:27:17,240 --> 00:27:20,040 Speaker 2: Like Beyonce or Hillary Clinton exactly. 500 00:27:20,440 --> 00:27:22,400 Speaker 1: Especially when they have a new project coming. 501 00:27:22,240 --> 00:27:25,560 Speaker 2: Up, right, I'm really looking forward to that Beyonce, Hillary collab. 502 00:27:26,080 --> 00:27:28,879 Speaker 1: I am too. Yeah, I am too, especially, I mean 503 00:27:29,920 --> 00:27:33,320 Speaker 1: former Secretary of State Clinton is I'm sure to drop 504 00:27:33,400 --> 00:27:43,520 Speaker 1: a hot hook or nasty sixteen bars. Okay, So we've 505 00:27:43,560 --> 00:27:47,280 Speaker 1: got the armor, and we know that armor is continually 506 00:27:47,440 --> 00:27:50,960 Speaker 1: innovating for the people who can afford it these innovations. 507 00:27:51,119 --> 00:27:54,000 Speaker 1: This is an arms race. So these innovations also lead 508 00:27:54,080 --> 00:27:57,240 Speaker 1: to the decline of the shield for practical use. Like 509 00:27:57,800 --> 00:28:00,840 Speaker 1: you know, if we're out watching a jow Max and 510 00:28:00,920 --> 00:28:04,320 Speaker 1: Noel and yours, truly, we might see a knight who 511 00:28:04,400 --> 00:28:07,640 Speaker 1: has a shield right to bounce the lance off from 512 00:28:07,680 --> 00:28:10,919 Speaker 1: their opponent. But if you're in a battlefield in an 513 00:28:11,200 --> 00:28:14,840 Speaker 1: actual war, your plate armor is gonna do most of 514 00:28:14,880 --> 00:28:17,240 Speaker 1: what a shield would have done. So now a shield 515 00:28:17,400 --> 00:28:20,480 Speaker 1: is just an encumbrance. It's an albatross, it's another heavy 516 00:28:20,560 --> 00:28:21,440 Speaker 1: thing you have to carry. 517 00:28:21,560 --> 00:28:23,359 Speaker 4: Well, that's right, And it is one of those leveling 518 00:28:23,400 --> 00:28:26,280 Speaker 4: the playing field kind of arguments where it's like, you know, 519 00:28:26,359 --> 00:28:29,480 Speaker 4: if everyone's wearing this heavy crap, you're sort of like 520 00:28:29,680 --> 00:28:32,280 Speaker 4: equally hampered and you're all just kind of like working 521 00:28:32,359 --> 00:28:34,160 Speaker 4: in the same with the same drawbass. 522 00:28:34,240 --> 00:28:37,720 Speaker 2: Yes, slowly, slowly clanking over. So I'm coming to get you. 523 00:28:38,000 --> 00:28:41,479 Speaker 2: I'm coming I'm damning for minutes. Okay, here I am. 524 00:28:41,560 --> 00:28:43,760 Speaker 2: I'm gonna come towards you too. Well, okay, well. 525 00:28:44,000 --> 00:28:46,760 Speaker 1: Before we before we get through it. Yeah wait, wait, 526 00:28:46,920 --> 00:28:49,760 Speaker 1: gave off. Let's everybody get a little bit of water. 527 00:28:49,920 --> 00:28:52,120 Speaker 2: Hold on, gotta poop, gotta gotta poop. 528 00:28:52,560 --> 00:28:54,240 Speaker 1: I'll be back. It's like twenty minutes. 529 00:28:54,480 --> 00:28:56,440 Speaker 4: But then, you know, you start to think the real 530 00:28:56,560 --> 00:29:01,120 Speaker 4: innovation isn't how much can weed our guys down with 531 00:29:01,240 --> 00:29:03,280 Speaker 4: the stuff, is how can we train them to not 532 00:29:03,560 --> 00:29:05,600 Speaker 4: need it, you know what I mean, like and be 533 00:29:05,800 --> 00:29:08,640 Speaker 4: more nimble. And when we look at like Japanese armor, 534 00:29:09,320 --> 00:29:11,480 Speaker 4: that stuff is clever because it's. 535 00:29:11,400 --> 00:29:13,960 Speaker 2: Like shoulders, it's just on the critical parts. 536 00:29:13,680 --> 00:29:16,920 Speaker 4: And like, you know, they were just badass fighters who 537 00:29:17,280 --> 00:29:21,520 Speaker 4: really knew how to engage in a way that maybe 538 00:29:21,560 --> 00:29:25,440 Speaker 4: they didn't necessarily. They weren't just blunt instruments a tank 539 00:29:25,680 --> 00:29:27,160 Speaker 4: as you would call it in a video game. 540 00:29:27,280 --> 00:29:30,520 Speaker 1: Right, Yeah, yeah, I mean also with the shields, if 541 00:29:30,560 --> 00:29:33,800 Speaker 1: we look at the regular guys, the non rich guys 542 00:29:33,840 --> 00:29:37,240 Speaker 1: who are fighting in these battles, we're looking at folks 543 00:29:37,240 --> 00:29:40,640 Speaker 1: who have stuff like long bows, right, or have pikes, 544 00:29:40,960 --> 00:29:43,200 Speaker 1: and those are both two handed weapons. 545 00:29:43,280 --> 00:29:47,760 Speaker 2: So shields aha, don't work for them wilding. Yeah, no, sorry, 546 00:29:47,760 --> 00:29:50,240 Speaker 2: the opposite you need two hands for the big Halbard. 547 00:29:51,080 --> 00:29:52,960 Speaker 2: Dual wielding would be two weapons. 548 00:29:53,000 --> 00:29:55,160 Speaker 4: And you know, there is technique for fighting that does 549 00:29:55,280 --> 00:29:57,640 Speaker 4: involve sword and shields, but that's its. 550 00:29:57,520 --> 00:30:01,280 Speaker 2: Own kind of very separate type of engagement, right yeah. 551 00:30:01,480 --> 00:30:06,840 Speaker 1: Yeah, And these street level infantry type guys, they can't 552 00:30:07,320 --> 00:30:11,720 Speaker 1: rock shields at all unless there's literally a separate dude 553 00:30:11,840 --> 00:30:15,240 Speaker 1: standing next to them with a big shield and holding 554 00:30:15,320 --> 00:30:18,280 Speaker 1: it up in front of them. So yes, I mean 555 00:30:18,400 --> 00:30:21,680 Speaker 1: people did that, right, But plate armor then, in this 556 00:30:21,800 --> 00:30:26,280 Speaker 1: great tech race, it outpaces the shield and eventually armor 557 00:30:26,440 --> 00:30:30,320 Speaker 1: itself is outpaced. That's how we get to our question 558 00:30:30,480 --> 00:30:34,240 Speaker 1: towards the end here, why why don't we see people 559 00:30:34,760 --> 00:30:38,960 Speaker 1: in full plate armor today? Like why isn't your average 560 00:30:39,680 --> 00:30:43,719 Speaker 1: Johnny Law or Wells Fargo security guard. Why aren't they 561 00:30:43,840 --> 00:30:44,600 Speaker 1: clinking around? 562 00:30:45,400 --> 00:30:48,960 Speaker 4: It's just it's about material science, really, you know, and 563 00:30:49,080 --> 00:30:54,360 Speaker 4: it's about things like kevlar, things like ballistic gelatine and 564 00:30:54,640 --> 00:31:02,320 Speaker 4: various types of low weight comparatively and high resistance you know, 565 00:31:02,520 --> 00:31:06,640 Speaker 4: to impact materials like the stuff that's in bulletproofests for example. 566 00:31:06,680 --> 00:31:09,440 Speaker 2: And you know, this stuff continues to improve. 567 00:31:10,000 --> 00:31:13,200 Speaker 1: Yeah, like the I have a kevlar vest and I 568 00:31:13,280 --> 00:31:17,360 Speaker 1: also have a ceramic plating things. You buy the vest 569 00:31:17,520 --> 00:31:20,560 Speaker 1: and then you end up buying the plates separately. 570 00:31:20,360 --> 00:31:22,520 Speaker 2: That's right. I do hear them talk about that in 571 00:31:22,640 --> 00:31:23,960 Speaker 2: like swat type shows. 572 00:31:24,160 --> 00:31:29,920 Speaker 4: Yeah, it is still expensive and it ain't exactly light, 573 00:31:30,320 --> 00:31:33,600 Speaker 4: but it's not right, you know. But comparatively it is 574 00:31:34,280 --> 00:31:37,560 Speaker 4: a dream come true, comparatively to the big old plates 575 00:31:37,960 --> 00:31:38,880 Speaker 4: right right plates. 576 00:31:39,240 --> 00:31:41,480 Speaker 1: And so it's cool because I love this point we're 577 00:31:41,480 --> 00:31:44,440 Speaker 1: getting to, like, at the height of its popularity, that 578 00:31:44,720 --> 00:31:48,880 Speaker 1: full plate armor was symbolic on multiple levels. It represents 579 00:31:49,000 --> 00:31:53,840 Speaker 1: so many astonishing technological breakthroughs, and if we're being honest, 580 00:31:54,160 --> 00:31:58,760 Speaker 1: it represents a cartoonishly brutal and unfair class system. This 581 00:31:58,840 --> 00:32:01,480 Speaker 1: is what this I keep thinking of how you would 582 00:32:01,520 --> 00:32:04,800 Speaker 1: feel if you are a non noble soldier, right, and 583 00:32:04,880 --> 00:32:09,120 Speaker 1: you've got whatever kit you could mcguiver together. You're it's 584 00:32:09,240 --> 00:32:12,120 Speaker 1: like you were driving around in a nineties Honda Civic 585 00:32:12,400 --> 00:32:14,720 Speaker 1: and all of a sudden you hear a terrible horn, 586 00:32:15,080 --> 00:32:17,840 Speaker 1: a great cheer from over the hill, and you're gang 587 00:32:17,920 --> 00:32:21,520 Speaker 1: a little civics is getting run down by bloodthirsty hum vs, 588 00:32:21,800 --> 00:32:23,440 Speaker 1: or like you said tanks. 589 00:32:23,680 --> 00:32:26,640 Speaker 2: Right, like they're outmatched. So you know the question we 590 00:32:26,720 --> 00:32:27,480 Speaker 2: pose at the top. 591 00:32:28,320 --> 00:32:32,720 Speaker 4: You know, did nights of your really wear these big, 592 00:32:32,920 --> 00:32:36,880 Speaker 4: massive suits of armor like you might see in a 593 00:32:36,960 --> 00:32:39,680 Speaker 4: fancy drawing room in a detective movie. 594 00:32:40,600 --> 00:32:45,160 Speaker 2: The answer is yeah, but not the way myths might suggest. 595 00:32:45,280 --> 00:32:48,720 Speaker 1: One hundred percent, because we have to remember that this 596 00:32:49,080 --> 00:32:52,640 Speaker 1: was a pretty limited window of time. As defensive measures 597 00:32:52,720 --> 00:32:57,840 Speaker 1: like armor improved, offensive technology improved as well, So now 598 00:32:57,920 --> 00:32:58,680 Speaker 1: we barely. 599 00:32:58,480 --> 00:33:01,240 Speaker 2: Do battlefield fighting at all anymore. 600 00:33:01,520 --> 00:33:07,000 Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, napolet warfare is thankfully gone. But despite all 601 00:33:07,080 --> 00:33:11,320 Speaker 1: the time, blood, research, and money poured into suits of 602 00:33:11,360 --> 00:33:15,360 Speaker 1: plate armor, this tech gets outpaced by a new kid 603 00:33:15,440 --> 00:33:19,440 Speaker 1: on the block. That's right, gunpowder. And I didn't know 604 00:33:19,560 --> 00:33:20,160 Speaker 1: this originally. 605 00:33:20,440 --> 00:33:22,240 Speaker 4: I guess I should have should have gotten a gunpowder 606 00:33:22,280 --> 00:33:24,160 Speaker 4: before I dropped kevlar and bulletproof. 607 00:33:24,360 --> 00:33:27,800 Speaker 1: No, no, it's fine, man. We know that we know 608 00:33:27,920 --> 00:33:30,400 Speaker 1: that kevlar would have been more effective than played armor 609 00:33:30,520 --> 00:33:33,719 Speaker 1: for sure, but I didn't know this at the beginning 610 00:33:33,760 --> 00:33:38,680 Speaker 1: tool before we started researching this armor at the time 611 00:33:38,880 --> 00:33:42,520 Speaker 1: was actually good enough to block early musket balls, which 612 00:33:42,560 --> 00:33:45,760 Speaker 1: were themselves a crapshoot with terrible aaming sure, so you 613 00:33:45,920 --> 00:33:48,720 Speaker 1: could get you could get a little ping pong shot 614 00:33:49,160 --> 00:33:51,920 Speaker 1: to your chest and keep going because it would take 615 00:33:51,960 --> 00:33:55,840 Speaker 1: the guy firing at you so long to reload their firearm. 616 00:33:55,920 --> 00:33:56,000 Speaker 2: Well. 617 00:33:56,080 --> 00:33:58,880 Speaker 4: Yeah, we've also seen examples of, like, you know, as 618 00:33:58,920 --> 00:34:00,560 Speaker 4: a twist in the plot of some sort of a 619 00:34:00,800 --> 00:34:03,600 Speaker 4: murder mystery type show, a bullet being stopped. 620 00:34:03,320 --> 00:34:05,920 Speaker 2: By a cigarette case, perhaps in the front pockets. 621 00:34:06,160 --> 00:34:09,000 Speaker 1: I always love that, you know, like there's that iconic 622 00:34:09,080 --> 00:34:12,400 Speaker 1: scene where somebody looks to be dead, but did they 623 00:34:12,480 --> 00:34:13,799 Speaker 1: pull out as you're saying that, and. 624 00:34:15,800 --> 00:34:18,800 Speaker 2: It's like a bibyes, oh yes. 625 00:34:20,000 --> 00:34:22,160 Speaker 1: Or this case, weirdly enough, a lottery ticket. 626 00:34:22,719 --> 00:34:25,640 Speaker 2: Okay, we'll take We'll take all the luck we can get. 627 00:34:26,760 --> 00:34:29,120 Speaker 4: This is super fun, man, And you know, I think 628 00:34:29,160 --> 00:34:32,600 Speaker 4: where I'm not like a gun person per se, but 629 00:34:32,719 --> 00:34:37,520 Speaker 4: I am fascinated by, uh these YouTube videos of people showing, uh, 630 00:34:37,880 --> 00:34:40,880 Speaker 4: what kind of materials can block what caliber of bullets 631 00:34:40,920 --> 00:34:43,239 Speaker 4: and stuff like that, And you do get into as 632 00:34:43,320 --> 00:34:46,359 Speaker 4: they escalate the materials into like stuff like ballistic gel 633 00:34:46,440 --> 00:34:51,320 Speaker 4: and all of these modern you know, gunpowder and bulletproof materials. 634 00:34:51,480 --> 00:34:55,160 Speaker 1: Yeah, like the spider silk experiments. That's pretty nuts. 635 00:34:55,200 --> 00:34:55,960 Speaker 2: I don't know, about that one. 636 00:34:56,000 --> 00:35:01,680 Speaker 1: There's been work into making armor base off spider silk, 637 00:35:02,200 --> 00:35:05,200 Speaker 1: which is like we always see it in what you know, 638 00:35:05,400 --> 00:35:08,600 Speaker 1: a tiny a web of tiny strands, but it turns 639 00:35:08,640 --> 00:35:11,640 Speaker 1: out if you knit it together, which is very time consuming, 640 00:35:12,120 --> 00:35:15,760 Speaker 1: then it actually makes a pretty good material. 641 00:35:15,400 --> 00:35:17,480 Speaker 2: For armor, almost like carbon fiber. 642 00:35:18,320 --> 00:35:20,879 Speaker 1: Yeah, I'd have to look into it because I don't 643 00:35:21,040 --> 00:35:23,640 Speaker 1: I don't know if it's cost effective yet, but we 644 00:35:23,760 --> 00:35:28,320 Speaker 1: do know, we do know. Plate armor became less cost 645 00:35:28,360 --> 00:35:33,560 Speaker 1: effective or even practical as firearms evolved, because look, the 646 00:35:33,680 --> 00:35:37,719 Speaker 1: reality is, uh, if you're wearing a bulletproof vest, even 647 00:35:37,760 --> 00:35:41,040 Speaker 1: now a modern one, and you get shot, you're still 648 00:35:41,120 --> 00:35:44,879 Speaker 1: going to have a screwed up day. It's gonna hurt, 649 00:35:45,960 --> 00:35:49,840 Speaker 1: you'll have nasty bruising, but the advantages will be alive. 650 00:35:50,239 --> 00:35:53,399 Speaker 1: The problem with plate armor is if these folks got 651 00:35:53,719 --> 00:35:58,840 Speaker 1: shot and the armor got mangled, you would injure the 652 00:35:58,920 --> 00:36:02,640 Speaker 1: guy even more or by trying to get it off them, like, 653 00:36:02,719 --> 00:36:04,719 Speaker 1: how are you gonna get his arm out of there? So, 654 00:36:05,120 --> 00:36:08,200 Speaker 1: as we said, that's the reason people aren't wearing plate 655 00:36:08,400 --> 00:36:14,120 Speaker 1: armor right now. Outside of coseplay and historical celebrations, body 656 00:36:14,200 --> 00:36:18,440 Speaker 1: armor is still around today. It's more expensive than we'd like, 657 00:36:19,640 --> 00:36:22,840 Speaker 1: but this is a great setup for a future episode 658 00:36:22,920 --> 00:36:27,920 Speaker 1: we have about another mythical fighter, the Bersoker. 659 00:36:28,400 --> 00:36:34,240 Speaker 2: Oh yes, yeah, remember that song from Clerks. 660 00:36:34,840 --> 00:36:35,839 Speaker 1: That's right, that's right. 661 00:36:36,040 --> 00:36:38,279 Speaker 2: Yeah, that's a pretty pretty blue language. And so I'm 662 00:36:38,280 --> 00:36:38,840 Speaker 2: just gonna go with. 663 00:36:41,280 --> 00:36:42,560 Speaker 1: I had big big thanks. 664 00:36:43,000 --> 00:36:45,400 Speaker 2: Were they hopped up on goofballs? Maybe? 665 00:36:45,800 --> 00:36:48,840 Speaker 1: Maybe big big. We're gonna find out big big thanks 666 00:36:48,880 --> 00:36:51,400 Speaker 1: to our super producer, mister Max Williams. I've been our 667 00:36:51,440 --> 00:36:55,760 Speaker 1: research associate for this big thanks to Jonathan Strickland aka 668 00:36:56,200 --> 00:37:01,239 Speaker 1: the Quister, who I miss a little bit, though I'm 669 00:37:01,280 --> 00:37:02,120 Speaker 1: never gonna tell him that. 670 00:37:02,120 --> 00:37:05,239 Speaker 4: Doesn't he doesn't he owe us an appearance oppressed to 671 00:37:05,320 --> 00:37:07,040 Speaker 4: digitation a summoning. 672 00:37:07,000 --> 00:37:09,640 Speaker 1: Yes he does. He's also a fan of stage magic. 673 00:37:09,800 --> 00:37:12,160 Speaker 2: That's true. Who isn't I love stage I'm not a 674 00:37:12,239 --> 00:37:13,480 Speaker 2: fan of it. Well I am. 675 00:37:13,960 --> 00:37:14,760 Speaker 1: I love this stuff. 676 00:37:14,840 --> 00:37:18,160 Speaker 2: You know what to each to each their own indeed, 677 00:37:18,400 --> 00:37:22,319 Speaker 2: and jolly good time today. Ben enjoyed this one. Thanks 678 00:37:22,360 --> 00:37:24,759 Speaker 2: for the for the research, and we'll see you next time. 679 00:37:24,840 --> 00:37:35,080 Speaker 4: Folks. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, 680 00:37:35,080 --> 00:37:38,200 Speaker 4: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.