Speaker 1: Hey, what's up everybody.
Speaker 2: I'm Jameel Hill and welcome to politics and I heard
Speaker 2: podcast and unbothered production.
Speaker 1: Time to get spolitical. Amid all the NBA.
Speaker 2: Free agency news, it was easy for the gambling scandal
Speaker 2: involving Malie Beasley to get swallowed up in the news cycle.
Speaker 2: So let me tell you why you need to be
Speaker 2: paying attention to this. The Pistons guard was a great
Speaker 2: addition this season for my Pistons. I mean, he finished
Speaker 2: second in the sixth Man of the Year voting and
Speaker 2: his three hundred and nineteen threes were the most enfranchised
Speaker 2: history and second in the league overall. But now Beasley
Speaker 2: is under investigation in a federal gambling probe, which is
Speaker 2: centered around suspicious gambling activity from the twenty twenty three
Speaker 2: to twenty four season when Beasley was with the Milwaukee Bucks. Now,
Speaker 2: according to an ESPN report, at least one prominent US
Speaker 2: sportsbook detected unusually heavy betting on Beasley statistics beginning around
Speaker 2: January twenty twenty four. More specifically, in the ESPN report,
Speaker 2: a gambling industry source pointed to a game between the
Speaker 2: Bucks and the Trailblazers on January thirty, first twenty twenty four,
Speaker 2: when the odds on Beasley recording fewer than two and
Speaker 2: a half rebounds moved significantly at sports books before the
Speaker 2: game due to a surge of action on the under. However,
Speaker 2: in that game, Beasley finished with six rebounds and the
Speaker 2: bets that raised an eyebrow lost. But the story has
Speaker 2: a lot more complicated layers than this. Multiple reports have
Speaker 2: surfaced showing that Beasley is facing significant financial issues. There's
Speaker 2: a track record that shows Beasley borrowing money upfront and
Speaker 2: not making good on it later. Court records obtained by
Speaker 2: the Detroit News showed that Beasley owes a lot of
Speaker 2: people money. He was sued by a sports management group
Speaker 2: for failing to repay a six hundred and fifty thousand
Speaker 2: dollars advance against future marketing revenue from.
Speaker 1: His name, image, and likeness.
Speaker 2: Beasley also was in deep with companies that specialized in
Speaker 2: loaning money to professional athletes. A company won a five
Speaker 2: point eight million dollar judgment against him when he played
Speaker 2: for Minnesota, and last year, Beasley signed a deal with
Speaker 2: the Florida company that supplies bridge loans for pro athletes,
Speaker 2: with Beasley using his current and future NBA.
Speaker 1: Contracts as collateral.
Speaker 2: Beasley is also being sued for back rent for a
Speaker 2: luxury high rise apartment he rented in Detroit.
Speaker 1: He had to pay a.
Speaker 2: Twenty six thousand dollars judgment to a celebrity barber. A
Speaker 2: barber I mean where they dipping the clippers in gold?
Speaker 2: Was his even blessed by the Pope? I mean for
Speaker 2: twenty six g's it should have come with a guarantee
Speaker 2: that Beasley was going to drop forty after every new haircut.
Speaker 2: He also owed another thirty five grand to his dentist,
Speaker 2: who started garnishing his check earlier this year. Them dan
Speaker 2: Veneers better have been warned by Jesus.
Speaker 1: Now, if you're wondering.
Speaker 2: How a player who has earned sixty million in his
Speaker 2: nine year NBA career can be out here moving like
Speaker 2: Russell Red from JKI promoters as Matt bars what's explained,
Speaker 2: you'd be surprised how many players end up in financial distress.
Speaker 3: So my deals were three hundred, four hundred and five
Speaker 3: hundred thousands, and to be honest with you, at the
Speaker 3: end of every summer, I was broke. Because financial literacy
Speaker 3: is something that's talked about often now, but you think
Speaker 3: late nineties early two thousands, wasn't talked about. We talked
Speaker 3: about houses, cars, jewelry, women, everything, but how to save
Speaker 3: what we're all working for. So I came from food
Speaker 3: stamps and drugs, So I didn't really have any kind
Speaker 3: of representation that showed me, you know, Okay, we'll put
Speaker 3: this away and save this and do this and that's this.
Speaker 1: Well, Beasley hasn't been charged with anything.
Speaker 2: Beasley situation should be especially concerning because this is what
Speaker 2: sports leagues fear. A player experiencing financial issues who possibly
Speaker 2: sees gambling as a quick side hustle or becomes a
Speaker 2: target for those who want to use his circumstances to
Speaker 2: get inside information, or in the worst case scenario, be
Speaker 2: pressured to throw games. But in some ways, sports leagues
Speaker 2: have only themselves to blame. When the Supreme Court struck
Speaker 2: down the Professional and Amateur Sports Protection Act of nineteen
Speaker 2: ninety two, which was the federal statute that it restricted
Speaker 2: legal betting to primarily Nevada for twenty six years, a
Speaker 2: dangerous Pandora's box was opened. There are thirty eight states
Speaker 2: plus Washington, DC where some form of sports betting is legal.
Speaker 2: That includes thirty states where you can gamble online. In
Speaker 2: twenty twenty four, the sports betting industry posted a record
Speaker 2: thirteen point seven billion in revenue, a two billion dollar
Speaker 2: increase from twenty twenty three. Since the Supreme Court decision,
Speaker 2: the amount of money wagered on sports has jumped from
Speaker 2: five billion to a staggering one hundred and twenty one billion,
Speaker 2: with ninety four percent of the wages placed online. Complicating
Speaker 2: matters even more is how every major sports league has
Speaker 2: gotten into bed with sports gambling.
Speaker 1: Websites such as FanDuel.
Speaker 2: ESPN, who for a long time shunned any association with gambling,
Speaker 2: created ESPN Bet. Now ESPN person at leads promote the
Speaker 2: app non stop, do gambling segments on their shows, and
Speaker 2: regularly discussed their own wages. The widespread acceptance of gambling
Speaker 2: has made it far less taboo, especially among professional athletes.
Speaker 2: While sports certainly had high profile gambling scandals prior to
Speaker 2: the twenty eighteen Supreme Court ruling, the nineteen ninety Chicago
Speaker 2: White Sox and pee rose come to minds. Since gambling
Speaker 2: has gone mainstream, we have seen a steady stream of
Speaker 2: athletes getting busted from gambling on their own sport. Last year,
Speaker 2: the NBA banned the Toronto Raptors John Tate Porter from
Speaker 2: the league after an investigation found that he disclosed financial
Speaker 2: information to betters, limited his participation in at least one
Speaker 2: game while in Toronto, and bet on NBA games while
Speaker 2: playing in the G League. In March, the NCAA began
Speaker 2: investigating two Fresno State basketball players for participating in daily
Speaker 2: fantasy contests based on their own performances. One player, Jalen Weaver,
Speaker 2: to ESPN he was dismissed from the team because he
Speaker 2: bet fifty dollars he would score more than eleven points
Speaker 2: against New Mexico last December.
Speaker 1: We were scored thirteen. Will Alisi Tothio.
Speaker 2: Notre Dame had to suspend its swimming team for a
Speaker 2: year because the players set up their own sports book
Speaker 2: where they could bet on themselves or on their teammates
Speaker 2: performance at meats. They also bet among themselves on the
Speaker 2: Super Bowl and March Madness. And if you think this
Speaker 2: sounds relatively harmless, realize that NCAA athletes aren't allowed to
Speaker 2: gamble on any sports. The scary part is, despite what
Speaker 2: happened at Notre Dame, Fresno State and a number of
Speaker 2: other schools. The NCAA is currently considering a proposal that
Speaker 2: would allow college players to bet on professional sports now
Speaker 2: be fully transparent. I have and do bet on sports,
Speaker 2: not often, as I live in a state where sports
Speaker 2: gambling isn't allowed, and even if it were, I seriously
Speaker 2: doubt that it would be something that I would regularly do.
Speaker 2: I'm also not a professional athlete with a lot to
Speaker 2: gain for insider information or betting on oneself. But there's
Speaker 2: a lot of denial going on with sports gambling. Sports
Speaker 2: leagues are serving two masters, capitalism and greed. If gambling
Speaker 2: is powerful enough to ensnare professional athletes who make millions
Speaker 2: of dollars, the lore for civilians is even more powerful.
Speaker 2: More people bet on sports than invest in stocks, and
Speaker 2: based on what the statistics tell us, sports gambling is
Speaker 2: poised to be the tobacco of this generation.
Speaker 1: Bet on it. I'm Jameel Hill, and I approved this message.
Speaker 2: The idea of sports being inclusive shouldn't be a controversial message.
Speaker 2: But when my guest today announced that his football camp
Speaker 2: was also open to LGBTQ plus youth, it created a firestorm.
Speaker 2: But he stood on what he said, and those that
Speaker 2: criticized him didn't understand why a heterosexual NFL defensive tackle
Speaker 2: who plays for the New Orleans Saints would make sure
Speaker 2: that the queer community knew they.
Speaker 1: Were welcome at his camp.
Speaker 2: On this episode, we'll unpack that in so much more
Speaker 2: coming up next on Spolitics Colin Saunders.
Speaker 1: All right, Colin on to thank you for joining me.
Speaker 2: I'm going to start this episode as I start every episode,
Speaker 2: by asking each guest that appears on Spolotics to name
Speaker 2: an athlete or a moment that made you love sports.
Speaker 4: Oh that is that is a question, okay, because wow,
Speaker 4: I mean football. I'm thinking of basketball, football, everything, all right,
Speaker 4: So I'll say I'll go in my earliest memory because
Speaker 4: I was like only four or five, but I do
Speaker 4: vaguely remember the RAM Super Bowl, and I don't really
Speaker 4: remember watching it all of that, but I remember specifically
Speaker 4: I was at my Auntie's house and all the men
Speaker 4: in the house was just.
Speaker 5: Like running into each other and high five and you know,
Speaker 5: estatic from the wind. So that was kind of I
Speaker 5: was like, what is causing all of this?
Speaker 4: Like that's how early on I enjoyed it, because then
Speaker 4: you know, going into middle school and you know, when
Speaker 4: I actually got to start playing the sport.
Speaker 5: Just I think that I can.
Speaker 4: Okay, I'll revert this to being my favorite player Mike
Speaker 4: Vick because that that that was, that was the first
Speaker 4: time I was I locked into a schedule. I was like,
Speaker 4: when do they play and what times I need to
Speaker 4: watch this dude?
Speaker 1: When he was at Virginia Tech.
Speaker 5: No, I'm talking later, yeah, later on, later on, yeah,
Speaker 5: right right, I.
Speaker 4: Don't know what I was watching Tech, but no, when
Speaker 4: he was in the league, that's when I was like,
Speaker 4: you know, I've always loved watching and playing sports, but
Speaker 4: that was that was the first person to make me
Speaker 4: be like really, like, okay, I need to I have
Speaker 4: to watch this dude play football.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: There's been so much conversation about whether or not football
Speaker 2: is a healthy sport, like whether that's something that we
Speaker 2: should be encouraging young people to play. And certainly, I
Speaker 2: know you you're no stranger to the conversations around head
Speaker 2: injuries and all that. But nevertheless, what do you feel like,
Speaker 2: particularly as a young person, what do you feel like
Speaker 2: football gave you?
Speaker 4: Football is almost a person like when you take all
Speaker 4: the values and you know, all the lessons that you
Speaker 4: learn throughout the years of playing football, Like I've always
Speaker 4: sit back and think to myself, like why I've been
Speaker 4: playing football for about twenty years now, and football saw
Speaker 4: me almost as much as my parents as like you know,
Speaker 4: and I think that's why my parents got me into football,
Speaker 4: is to teach me those lessons. But you know, as
Speaker 4: far as just accountability, I mean scheduling, scheduling being the
Speaker 4: most important one because you know, I'm lucky to play
Speaker 4: professional football where my schedule is pretty much all football.
Speaker 5: But back when it's your.
Speaker 4: Student athlete, that's one of the you know, that's I
Speaker 4: feel like every student athlete can tell you, like that's
Speaker 4: what put me above, you know, my classmates because I
Speaker 4: have to wake up at four thirty.
Speaker 5: In the morning and still go do everything that they
Speaker 5: have to do.
Speaker 4: So that, you know, football just taught me so much
Speaker 4: about just life in general and how to navigate through
Speaker 4: it and the connections you'll make and you know how
Speaker 4: to maintain those connections. So it's yeah, football is almost
Speaker 4: when you personified as an actual person.
Speaker 5: It's like a character within itself.
Speaker 2: Of course, with you playing for the Saints, I would
Speaker 2: be remiss if I didn't ask you about Derek Carr,
Speaker 2: who made the decision a very surprising decision to retire.
Speaker 2: When you heard that Derek Carr was retiring, what were
Speaker 2: your kind of initial thoughts.
Speaker 4: Yeah, it's actually crazy. My nephew texted me that he
Speaker 4: was like, your unk your quarterback return. I'm like, for real, Oh,
Speaker 4: but yeah, you know I was. I was obviously shocked.
Speaker 4: I knew he had the I think shoulder challenges. Uh,
Speaker 4: but you know, everybody has challenges and usually getting worked
Speaker 4: on in the off season, and so you know, at first,
Speaker 4: I was just kind of like, oh, I was shocked
Speaker 4: as far as the timing of it and what caused it.
Speaker 4: But you know, after that, I was kind of like, wow,
Speaker 4: you know, that's here's guy who loves football man is
Speaker 4: ultimate teammate, Like Derek is one of the best teammates
Speaker 4: I've ever had, you know, regardless of any of the
Speaker 4: ups and downs of any of the teams struggles and
Speaker 4: stuff like that, he's the same guy. You know, had
Speaker 4: to go through a lot of people, you know, talking
Speaker 4: about him crazy and stuff like that, and he's still
Speaker 4: greeting them and met him with love and you know,
Speaker 4: a great Christian guy and I respect him thoroughly for
Speaker 4: what he chose, because it's not hard. I mean, it's
Speaker 4: hard to walk away from the game. And like he
Speaker 4: said in an interview recently, like he could have took
Speaker 4: the money and you know, said forget him, but he
Speaker 4: didn't do that.
Speaker 5: And that's just type of person Derek is.
Speaker 2: And genuinely, yeah, because I think the way that his
Speaker 2: contract was structured is that he could have had the
Speaker 2: shoulder surgery, could have collected the thirty million now he
Speaker 2: was due to him this season and maybe not play
Speaker 2: this entire season, and just took that thirty mel What
Speaker 2: does this say about who he is that he chose
Speaker 2: to basically leave thirty million dollars on the table.
Speaker 4: I mean, man like Derek is one of the most
Speaker 4: wholesome humans I've ever met. You know, he is the
Speaker 4: most selfless person like he he you know, as a quarterback,
Speaker 4: you are the lead of the show quote unquote, and
Speaker 4: he made it, you know, his point to make sure
Speaker 4: that everybody knew that he wasn't the leader of the show.
Speaker 4: And I feel like what he did just now, you know,
Speaker 4: leaving that money on the table is the perfect personification
Speaker 4: of what I'm saying, Like he is all about the team.
Speaker 4: And if that doesn't show that he's all about the team,
Speaker 4: then I don't know what else does. I mean, he's
Speaker 4: great guy. You know, he he's showing up the same
Speaker 4: every day to work and you know, with a smile
Speaker 4: on his face, stuff like that.
Speaker 5: And you know, I'm happy that I got to meet him.
Speaker 4: I played him a lot of years and when he
Speaker 4: was in the Raiders and I was in Kansas City,
Speaker 4: and we've had a lot of battles, but that was
Speaker 4: the first thing we talked about when we got to
Speaker 4: the Saints together. It was like, you know, let's try
Speaker 4: and go out here and win some games. And and
Speaker 4: he's a he's a great guy, and you know, I'm
Speaker 4: happy before him. I'm happy for his retirement, and you know,
Speaker 4: I hope that he gets to relax and just enjoy
Speaker 4: all the work he's put in because he's a he's
Speaker 4: a legend in this league and you know, rightfully so,
Speaker 4: so hope he enjoys it now.
Speaker 2: As somebody who has Super Bowl super Bowls on their resume,
Speaker 2: this is probably a little bit bit of a different
Speaker 2: experience with you being with the New Orleans Saints, who
Speaker 2: seem to be going through a period of transition. Yeah, so,
Speaker 2: how as somebody who has been accustomed to winning and
Speaker 2: winning early in your career, how have you as a
Speaker 2: player handled some of the ups and downs that have
Speaker 2: come in New Orleans.
Speaker 5: Yeah?
Speaker 4: You know, well, I felt personally that that's why they
Speaker 4: brought me there, you know, because, like you said, there
Speaker 4: we're going through a kind of a shift a couple
Speaker 4: of different coaches in the last couple of years. And
Speaker 4: I think that they brought me there because they wanted
Speaker 4: me to cultivate the energy of togetherness and you know,
Speaker 4: just through not just because hey, here's a guy who's
Speaker 4: been to championships, nothing like that, but because of I
Speaker 4: feel like, you know, a lot of when you get
Speaker 4: when you talk to the teams that I've been on,
Speaker 4: the first thing they'll say is, man, he's a great
Speaker 4: teammate and a great locker room guy. So I feel
Speaker 4: like the Saints wanted to pull from that through this
Speaker 4: time of transitioning and trying, like you know, have it
Speaker 4: to where I can help be the glue guy, be
Speaker 4: you know, be keep the locker room in a good headspace.
Speaker 4: And that's that's kind of what I've been trying to do.
Speaker 4: No matter what, because at the end of the day,
Speaker 4: we have great players. We have really talented Like if
Speaker 4: I go through the depth chart and I name like
Speaker 4: our top two guys that he spot, You'll be like, wow,
Speaker 4: that is a good team. I mean, it's legends, it's
Speaker 4: Hall of famers on our team. And and so we
Speaker 4: just we're putting the pieces together. And I think that
Speaker 4: the Saints brought me in, uh, you know, to be
Speaker 4: a locker room guy and a glue guy through that
Speaker 4: and trying you know, I'm kind of transitioning to a
Speaker 4: new role because so he used to being a young guy,
Speaker 4: but now I'm yeah, right right, like saying stuff like
Speaker 4: all right, let being old to go through. I'm like, damn,
Speaker 4: I'm old enough, but I am. So I've embraced them,
Speaker 4: you know. I've been just trying to teach the young
Speaker 4: guys as much as I can, as much as I know,
Speaker 4: help them with their careers.
Speaker 2: You a moment ago were speaking about what you felt
Speaker 2: like football gave you as a young person, and now
Speaker 2: you're trying to do the same, and you have been
Speaker 2: doing the same. It's not like this is the first
Speaker 2: year you've done it. With your football camp. That is
Speaker 2: coming up in July, you made a very intentional decision
Speaker 2: to tell people that you wanted this camp to also
Speaker 2: be inclusive of LGBTQ youth as well, and because it
Speaker 2: seemed like people missed the part where you're like, I'm
Speaker 2: saying it's inclusive of media, not to the exclusion of
Speaker 2: who are not. It's just saying, hey, me making it
Speaker 2: known that you are also welcome to this camp. Why
Speaker 2: did you feel like you needed to intentionally plant that message.
Speaker 4: Well, I felt the need for that message. There was
Speaker 4: a strong need for it, especially in today's climate, you know,
Speaker 4: of of just what we.
Speaker 5: Consider being different in today's society. Uh I.
Speaker 4: You know, obviously, my brother Cameron, who is openly gay,
Speaker 4: has been gay my entire life. Uh you know that
Speaker 4: was kind of my driving factor behind intentionally putting that
Speaker 4: tag on there, because my brother has been to every
Speaker 4: event that I've ever been at, like whether that be
Speaker 4: Little League, whether that be the super Bowl in Arizona,
Speaker 4: you know, in all all games in between. And you know,
Speaker 4: I've always uh I love my brother to death. You know,
Speaker 4: I will always support him in anything that he does,
Speaker 4: and he supports me as well, and so you know,
Speaker 4: when it starts. I feel like in college was my
Speaker 4: first time experiencing, you know, him not being comfortable in
Speaker 4: the crowd of one of my games because we're actually
Speaker 4: about to play a openly gay player on the other team,
Speaker 4: and we're in in my hometown of my college, and
Speaker 4: and they were saying that they were going to do
Speaker 4: a display or a demonstration against LGBTQ right with my
Speaker 4: brother in the crowd though, you see. So then now
Speaker 4: it becomes okay, you know, I get defensive obviously, because
Speaker 4: I'm like, first of all, this ain't even their home field.
Speaker 4: They coming to my home field and disrespecting my brother
Speaker 4: in the crowd, you know what I mean. So then
Speaker 4: that's when it started. The ball started to roll. And
Speaker 4: then as the years went on, you know, my brother
Speaker 4: coming to my Kanasite Chiefs games and making him feel
Speaker 4: comfortable there, And that's when I started thinking about, like,
Speaker 4: you know that there should be no uh, you shouldn't
Speaker 4: have to do work beforehand to make somebody feel comfortable
Speaker 4: in a place, like you should just be able to
Speaker 4: come and be who you are and be comfortable where
Speaker 4: you are in your skin. So that's why I kind
Speaker 4: of put that tag on it to let people know that,
Speaker 4: you know, it is okay to be who you are
Speaker 4: and enjoy things that is not quote unquote for you.
Speaker 4: You know what I mean, Because my whole thing with
Speaker 4: this campus is just you know, promote a message of
Speaker 4: empathy and you know, accepting people for who they are
Speaker 4: and to treat people as you want to be treated.
Speaker 4: I feel like that's the number one rule in humanity
Speaker 4: that we're kind of forgetting as a society. I mean,
Speaker 4: my whole thing is, I don't care if I see
Speaker 4: you on the street, I don't care if I see
Speaker 4: you at some high end designer story anything like that.
Speaker 4: I just treat you how I will want you to
Speaker 4: treat me. And I feel like the quicker that society
Speaker 4: can grasp that message as a whole, the better will
Speaker 4: be as a society.
Speaker 2: How much when you having that empathy, it seemed to
Speaker 2: be developed a lot by watching your brother. Yeah, so,
Speaker 2: as you said, like he's been gay your whole life.
Speaker 2: So what did you witness in his process of you know,
Speaker 2: embracing and showing people who he really was.
Speaker 1: What did you learn from watching him? What did you see?
Speaker 5: I learned so much.
Speaker 4: You know, my brother has even even the things that
Speaker 4: he don't know that taught me lessons like he has.
Speaker 4: He's been There's been so many moments in my life
Speaker 4: where I am, like, you know, considered the quote unquote
Speaker 4: stereotypical male, heterosexual blah blah blah uh. And I watched
Speaker 4: his life from the outside lens, and I'm just like wow,
Speaker 4: Like I didn't have to go through none of that,
Speaker 4: you know what I mean.
Speaker 5: Like I didn't experience none of that. I didn't know.
Speaker 4: I don't know how it feels to be that in this,
Speaker 4: you know what I mean. So for example, like if
Speaker 4: I really love dancing and like this, that's what he does,
Speaker 4: but I'm a straight male, you know what I mean.
Speaker 4: So I really love dancing and I want to go dance,
Speaker 4: but it's like everybody who dances is considered to be gay.
Speaker 4: Like I don't want to be known as you know,
Speaker 4: I don't want to be known I'm not gay, but
Speaker 4: I love dancing. I didn't have to experience that, but
Speaker 4: he experienced that, like he you know, I love to
Speaker 4: watch football because my brother plays in it.
Speaker 5: But you're gay. You can't do that. You don't You're
Speaker 5: not supposed to be doing that.
Speaker 4: And so like just from everyday life from him, and
Speaker 4: kind of that's why they call it being in a
Speaker 4: closet because it felt like he was living in a closet,
Speaker 4: like he couldn't, you know, be himself. And so I've
Speaker 4: learned just you know, so much about life and being
Speaker 4: a good person in general to anybody you meet because
Speaker 4: you don't know what their circumstances are. I mean this
Speaker 4: this is about lgbt Q plus and the you know,
Speaker 4: the core community because I made it to be about
Speaker 4: that because I have a connection to that with my brother.
Speaker 4: But in general and in the broaden sense, this is
Speaker 4: a message of accepting everybody for what they are, no
Speaker 4: matter sexual orientation, no matter sexual identity, no matter skin tone, color, race,
Speaker 4: or anything like that. I just feel like maybe it's
Speaker 4: because of the way I was raising. You know, I
Speaker 4: lived in a very predominantly black neighborhoods and cities, and
Speaker 4: I got the opportunity to go to predominantly like white
Speaker 4: and Jewish schools and stuff like that. So I've been
Speaker 4: around all walks of life my whole life, and I
Speaker 4: feel like being in those melting pots of formed me
Speaker 4: to be the person I am today that can relate
Speaker 4: to anybody. You know, I literally feel like there's not
Speaker 4: one person on this earth that you know, I would
Speaker 4: just look at them and be like, I don't think
Speaker 4: I'm gonna like you for what reason?
Speaker 5: You know what I mean.
Speaker 4: So that's just kind of, you know, that's my stance
Speaker 4: and how I've always lived my life, and I feel
Speaker 4: like it's a positive way.
Speaker 5: To live it.
Speaker 2: So now you had to know that when you made
Speaker 2: the intention publicly known that this is going to be
Speaker 2: welcome to, you know, this group of marginalized people, that
Speaker 2: it was going to create a reaction.
Speaker 1: Yeah, so what has the reaction been?
Speaker 4: Yeah, so obviously, you know, I always talk about social
Speaker 4: media and the powers and powers of it, but also
Speaker 4: the negatives of it. And so when you you understand that,
Speaker 4: you kind of just bypass it because there's always going
Speaker 4: to be a lot of positive and a lot of support,
Speaker 4: and then there's always gonna be a lot of negativity.
Speaker 5: And because that's what social media is.
Speaker 4: It's literally a platform for people to say they like
Speaker 4: something or don't like something. That's because that's what the
Speaker 4: picture is posted for, to say how I like this
Speaker 4: or oh why was she posted?
Speaker 5: You know what I mean? So I knew early.
Speaker 4: I knew from very early on that there was gonna
Speaker 4: be you know, the people who try and spend it
Speaker 4: the ways that they spent it, and you know, oh,
Speaker 4: he's forcing this on to the children and stuff like that,
Speaker 4: and then they are gonna be people who you know,
Speaker 4: know me personally. I've played I've been playing in the
Speaker 4: league for seven years, so I'm pretty sure there's at
Speaker 4: least probably one person on each team that I've played with,
Speaker 4: and I know that they got my back because that
Speaker 4: type of person I am. I've never had an enemy
Speaker 4: on any of my teams anything like that, and so
Speaker 4: you know, when this comes up in the news, it's like, oh, man,
Speaker 4: what's he doing and stuff like that. I know I
Speaker 4: can rely on that person in those other locker rooms
Speaker 4: to be like, oh, yes, my dog, big man. You
Speaker 4: know his brother is gay and he is, you know,
Speaker 4: trying to just create an environment of acceptance and positivity.
Speaker 4: So you know, when I realized that, I really didn't.
Speaker 4: And then on top of that, like I've said before,
Speaker 4: my father is Ken Saunders, and that man don't care
Speaker 4: about nothing, and I get that thoroughly from him. Like,
Speaker 4: at the end of the day, if all of this
Speaker 4: goes over anybody's head.
Speaker 5: Just at the end of the day, the messages I
Speaker 5: don't care, I don't care. I'm like, what do you
Speaker 5: what if this?
Speaker 4: If you don't enjoy or if you don't like me
Speaker 4: promoting being nice to other people, go be mean somewhere else,
Speaker 4: Like go ahead, It's this world is huge, bro, Like,
Speaker 4: you don't got to focus on anything I'm doing if
Speaker 4: you don't like it or support it, just like I
Speaker 4: don't if I don't like someone support it. I just
Speaker 4: I don't bring negative negativity to it. I just leave
Speaker 4: it alone.
Speaker 5: I leave it be.
Speaker 4: So that's my whole. You know, my goal is just
Speaker 4: to spare positivity. And if you don't want to spare positivity,
Speaker 4: then go ahead. No, do what you want to do.
Speaker 1: With your brother. When did you know or realize that
Speaker 1: he was gay?
Speaker 4: Since I realized my brother was gay, since I can
Speaker 4: start remembering, honestly, like from very early on, like when
Speaker 4: I was about five six. You know, I'm playing all
Speaker 4: the sports and he's not like he's simple as simple
Speaker 4: as that, Like you know, me and my brothers, I
Speaker 4: mean be and my cousins and all of us. We're
Speaker 4: playing basketball at the YMCA and he's like, you know,
Speaker 4: in the cheerroom or or doing dance and stuff like that.
Speaker 4: And that's not necessarily say like you got to be
Speaker 4: gay to do that type of stuff. But it's like,
Speaker 4: you know, from if from early on we're as kids,
Speaker 4: we're so impressionable that we're gonna do what everybody else
Speaker 4: does because we don't know what we're supposed to do, right,
Speaker 4: So you know, if you know that you want to
Speaker 4: be doing something different, or you feel like, all right,
Speaker 4: this is I have no interest in that, and this
Speaker 4: is what my interest is. We didn't necessarily say, Okay,
Speaker 4: Kevin is gay because he likes to dance and stuff
Speaker 4: like that. We just notice, Okay, he doesn't like to
Speaker 4: do what the stereotypical boy is doing, so we lay
Speaker 4: him to be continue to develop and be himself. And
Speaker 4: then well I'm saying that like I'm older than or
Speaker 4: something he did whatever I was indapers probably so I
Speaker 4: ain't like I know, but I do know, like when
Speaker 4: I start like having my memories for him and stuff,
Speaker 4: I've always just remembered him, you know, being who he was,
Speaker 4: you know who he is now and he's a professional
Speaker 4: and all that now. But I still see the same,
Speaker 4: you know what I'm saying, chubby cheek big brother that
Speaker 4: I've always known, and now, like I said, he's just
Speaker 4: professional with it. So we've known who he was, and
Speaker 4: we've known now, we've known that I was gonna be
Speaker 4: the sports Jacques playing all the sports, getting hurt and
Speaker 4: jumping off of bunk beers and stuff.
Speaker 5: And then we know him as the five six seven eight.
Speaker 4: That's all he do it Like he walked around the
Speaker 4: house saying five six seven eight and making choreography and
Speaker 4: you know, when a new song comes out, like he's
Speaker 4: the first one to make a dance to it, you
Speaker 4: know what I mean.
Speaker 5: So stuff like.
Speaker 4: That we've always known, and it's just the orientation came second,
Speaker 4: you know what I mean. So you know, if he
Speaker 4: was straight doing all this stuff, it would be no different.
Speaker 4: It's just that's who he was, and he was who
Speaker 4: he was unapologetically, and you know he came out to
Speaker 4: the family. It's just like, okay, nice, now tomorrow is
Speaker 4: tomorrow still right whatever, let's keep going forward.
Speaker 2: So well, especially you know a little older than you
Speaker 2: and I remember during when I was growing up, is
Speaker 2: that very much so that kids that were considered to
Speaker 2: be different, as you said, especially if you're a boy
Speaker 2: and you were in the things that were considered to
Speaker 2: be classically feminine or things that you know, girls quote unquote.
Speaker 1: Tended to like that.
Speaker 2: You got made fun of and bullying, you know quite
Speaker 2: a bit, and the language around that and the community
Speaker 2: feeling around that was not very positive. So how were
Speaker 2: you all able to maybe protect your brother and that
Speaker 2: in that way or was that even his reality where
Speaker 2: maybe outside of your home, facing a different level of circumstances,
Speaker 2: maybe some bullying, that kind of thing.
Speaker 5: Yes, absolutely, you said it perfectly.
Speaker 4: That's exactly what my family and I you know, try
Speaker 4: to do is protect him. You know, it's it's you know,
Speaker 4: as a mom, especially specifically my mom. You know, it's
Speaker 4: already hard enough to have a black boy in this world,
Speaker 4: you know, due to a number of circumstances, but then
Speaker 4: you add gay to that, and it's even more circumstances
Speaker 4: to that. So, you know, we my family household was
Speaker 4: built on love. And I know that's a very generic
Speaker 4: thing to say, but what the type of love that
Speaker 4: we were built on was very unconditional, Like it's very
Speaker 4: it's very much if we don't have anybody, We have
Speaker 4: to have each other because at the end of the day,
Speaker 4: anybody can choose to not be in our life. But yeah,
Speaker 4: I mean even family can choose to not me in
Speaker 4: your life. But this is the only person who I
Speaker 4: have like made with off top, like, no matter what,
Speaker 4: this is my brother, this is my mom, dad, this
Speaker 4: is my grandmother, you know what I mean. So we
Speaker 4: were a very tight knit family unit, and because of that,
Speaker 4: it led to us protecting Cameron, you know, from as
Speaker 4: much as we could, and to me, you know, me
Speaker 4: being a rough and tough boy, I always used to
Speaker 4: want to meet it with for us and fight for
Speaker 4: him and stuff like that. But then I learned, like,
Speaker 4: you know, you can't beat people with hatred on their heart,
Speaker 4: you know, so all I can do is meet them
Speaker 4: with love and hopefully change their outlook. And that's when
Speaker 4: I started to learn to get away from the physical
Speaker 4: and get into the more emotional and mental side of
Speaker 4: supporting allyship. And that's what's led me to today.
Speaker 2: What did your brother think about you making you know,
Speaker 2: sort of this intention known about how you wanted this
Speaker 2: camp to be inclusive.
Speaker 1: What did he think?
Speaker 5: He was happy? He was very happy. I mean, he cried.
Speaker 4: Obviously he's softy, but yeah, he's you know, very happy.
Speaker 4: He's proud, and I tell him all the time. One
Speaker 4: thing though, he was he was scared obviously because of
Speaker 4: like you said, the backlash, a get and all of that.
Speaker 4: And I told him, I said, Cameron, like, we were
Speaker 4: born for this because just as early as he just
Speaker 4: as early as I knew I had a crush on
Speaker 4: Kelly Rowland and beyond saying them, he knew he didn't
Speaker 4: you know what I'm saying. And so I was like,
Speaker 4: I told him that because I said, I have to
Speaker 4: remind him sometimes, like you know, it's this can get
Speaker 4: overwhelming because you know, I'm on the talk show with
Speaker 4: you and I'm doing Today's show and all this stuff now,
Speaker 4: But in reality, like this is what we I said,
Speaker 4: I was born into allyship because you've known who you
Speaker 4: were since then and I was gonna love you regardless.
Speaker 5: So you know, my it was destiny.
Speaker 4: It was it was just and the other part of
Speaker 4: destiny was that we just both quote unquote famous now
Speaker 4: you know what I mean, and that kind of you know,
Speaker 4: that's why it's making the headlines that it is, because
Speaker 4: if it was just you know, a guy that work
Speaker 4: at Whole Foods and and then his brother that you
Speaker 4: know whatever, work at a little office.
Speaker 5: Nobody would have cared.
Speaker 4: But it's it's the Saunders brothers, and so I feel
Speaker 4: like that's why, you know, it is on the level
Speaker 4: it is. But I mean, at the end of the day,
Speaker 4: this is what this is what I was born to do.
Speaker 5: Literally.
Speaker 2: Yeah, again, negative reaction expected on the other side of it.
Speaker 2: How have people in the community, in the lgd LGBT
Speaker 2: plus community, how have they reacted to.
Speaker 4: This, People in the queer community. Uh, they have embraced me,
Speaker 4: you know, tenfold. I mean obviously even before this, just
Speaker 4: the love that I show for my brother, uh, because
Speaker 4: before it is, you know, he was already starting to
Speaker 4: get traction in. And then we didn't like the Gillette.
Speaker 4: We had a little Gillette like you know, sponsorship and
Speaker 4: demo type of thing, and uh, even with that, we
Speaker 4: started to see like how much support that people were
Speaker 4: getting this. And I started getting messages from random people
Speaker 4: I've never met, and they're just like, you know, what
Speaker 4: you're doing in the community is so powerful and impactful
Speaker 4: and stuff like that. And I didn't even look at
Speaker 4: it as anything that I was trying to make an
Speaker 4: impact with. It was just more so of a oh, yeah,
Speaker 4: this is like let me make sure they know that
Speaker 4: they're included. Not not necessarily like you said, an exclusive
Speaker 4: to you know, straight people or anything like that, but
Speaker 4: it was like, more so, let me know that they're included.
Speaker 4: And then it became all of this, and so, you know,
Speaker 4: I think that I've always just tried to have people
Speaker 4: feel welcome and included and it's turned into this. But
Speaker 4: you know that was wasn't my intention at first. It
Speaker 4: was just you know, show show support.
Speaker 2: Now, football, as you know, is one of the most masculine,
Speaker 2: you know, especially NFL locker rooms. Have I don't know,
Speaker 2: have you heard from your teammates or other people you
Speaker 2: play with, or even just generally people around the league
Speaker 2: about what you're doing and whatever they said.
Speaker 4: Yeah, you know, obviously my teammates we talked about in
Speaker 4: the locker room, just you know, in passing and stuff.
Speaker 4: And you know, obviously everybody, like I said, the people
Speaker 4: that know me and the relationships that I form within
Speaker 4: a team, they know where my heart is because they
Speaker 4: know what the same way that I would do anything
Speaker 4: for them, I would do anything for you know, all
Speaker 4: my friends and all my brothers and stuff like that.
Speaker 5: So I feel like the second people.
Speaker 4: Meet me, they understand where my heart is and they
Speaker 4: understand what I'm trying to accomplish with this more so
Speaker 4: in being a vestige of acceptance and empathy and love
Speaker 4: as opposed to you know, persuasion, you know what I mean.
Speaker 4: And so you know, I feel like within my own
Speaker 4: locker room, that conversation has started and to where it's
Speaker 4: UH is making some progress. And then across UH the
Speaker 4: league and and and across other areas, UH in sports
Speaker 4: as well. You know, we're starting to see UH more
Speaker 4: openly gay people be in different sports obviously, like track
Speaker 4: is one of the ones I've noticed a lot of
Speaker 4: openly gay people have been in and UH. And then
Speaker 4: it's also in basketball, not the NBA, but the w
Speaker 4: n B A Like that's they're very you know, opening
Speaker 4: that regard as well. And so it's not like it's
Speaker 4: something that's not going on, you know, it's just not
Speaker 4: in football. And I feel like what I've said before
Speaker 4: and I will stick by is is let the athlete
Speaker 4: be the athlete. Like if you have metrics that say,
Speaker 4: if you have metrics and stats that say, hey, I'm
Speaker 4: good at this, then you're good at it. Like there
Speaker 4: should be no no, you know, are you good at it?
Speaker 4: But you're gay, so you're not good at it? No,
Speaker 4: that makes no sense. Like I bring up Michael Sam
Speaker 4: all the time, because that's a person like like, this
Speaker 4: is a man who is the SEC Player of the Year,
Speaker 4: Like the SEC is the best conference in college football
Speaker 4: and arguably and he was the best defender in that conference,
Speaker 4: and yet somehow his NFL career just magically didn't pan out.
Speaker 4: You know, stuff like that it makes you question people's
Speaker 4: motives and and and agendas and stuff like that.
Speaker 5: But you know, I think that we're we're in a.
Speaker 4: Climate of a society right now where it needs to
Speaker 4: be talked about and and and it can only move forward.
Speaker 4: You know, it's hard to go backwards from where we're
Speaker 4: at right now, you know what I mean.
Speaker 2: So yeah, I mean there's an openly game player in
Speaker 2: the NFL right now who plays for the Raiders.
Speaker 5: Yeah, caring this, he reached out, He reaches out.
Speaker 4: Oh yeah, me and me and him have been ever
Speaker 4: since this came out, Me and Carl Nassim and Trey McBride,
Speaker 4: who is his he has two mothers. We have all
Speaker 4: three of us have been in contact like thoroughly, and
Speaker 4: you know they're like Carls more so of man, thank
Speaker 4: you for you know, supporting all of that. And then
Speaker 4: Trey McBride is more so of you know, a message
Speaker 4: of he's just preaching the same message because he has
Speaker 4: his two mothers. So yeah, you know, I think that
Speaker 4: I've been getting again some support and uh, like I said,
Speaker 4: Carlo is the only one that is openly gay. But
Speaker 4: you know, I just hope that my message is, you know,
Speaker 4: to help anybody who feels like they're in the closet
Speaker 4: or you know, can't be themselves.
Speaker 5: It's just be yourself, you know.
Speaker 4: Be be who you want to be, and be who
Speaker 4: you are because it's too hard to be anybody else.
Speaker 5: Not.
Speaker 2: I know, NFL players are not naive. They do realize
Speaker 2: that they there's a very high percentage chance that they
Speaker 2: have played with someone who is gay and they just
Speaker 2: didn't know it right, right, So it's like, you know,
Speaker 2: so to some degree of just like you do realize that.
Speaker 5: Yeah, you have to be right.
Speaker 4: It's like just look at the numbers, like you know, yeah,
Speaker 4: if you know, unless just one in fifty one and
Speaker 4: every fifty three men are gay, then you know, you
Speaker 4: played with.
Speaker 5: Somebody that's gay. So uh yeah, that's you know.
Speaker 4: I think that once people kind of just take a
Speaker 4: step back from what they what they feel about the
Speaker 4: topic and just really look at it as you know,
Speaker 4: because one another thing I would say is that everybody
Speaker 4: has something that they, I guess feel like a different
Speaker 4: about as far as you know, they have something that
Speaker 4: they are trying to quote unquote hide because it's not
Speaker 4: the norm of society, right, Like whether that be I
Speaker 4: smoke cigarettes, or whether that be I drink too much
Speaker 4: or something like that. Like, everybody has something that they're
Speaker 4: you know, not that happy about, but being gay is
Speaker 4: the only one that like everybody makes this big deal about,
Speaker 4: you know what I mean. So I think that once,
Speaker 4: you know, once we realize that, you know, know what
Speaker 4: they say, like, no sin is greater than the others.
Speaker 4: So everybody has things that they're not proud about or
Speaker 4: that's quote unquote different from the norm. But once we
Speaker 4: can accept everybody for who they are, that's when we
Speaker 4: truly will achieve a society of bliss, like a society
Speaker 4: of just people minding their business and living their life
Speaker 4: and enjoying it.
Speaker 2: Seeing where the NFL was when Michael Sam was drafted. Actually,
Speaker 2: you know what, I'll wait. I'll ask you this on
Speaker 2: the other side of the break, the real quick because
Speaker 2: I have a ton more to ask you, including about
Speaker 2: you have some very strong opinions about whether or not
Speaker 2: football players can play basketball.
Speaker 5: So yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2: I wait to ask you about that. But before I
Speaker 2: get to that question, I want to ask you. We'll
Speaker 2: take a quick break and we'll be back with more
Speaker 2: with Colin Saunders. So what I was going to ask
Speaker 2: you before we took a break. You see, where the
Speaker 2: league was when Michael Sam was drafted. It was a
Speaker 2: huge story. You know, there was a lot of different
Speaker 2: conversations happening publicly privately across the league.
Speaker 1: But looking where the league is.
Speaker 2: Now, and you know, we were talking about Karl who
Speaker 2: plays I think the Raiders right with the Raiders, much
Speaker 2: different climate for him. So does it feel like the
Speaker 2: NFL as a league isn't a much better place of acceptance.
Speaker 1: Than they were before when it comes to openly gay players.
Speaker 4: Absolutely, I mean just from even you know, seeing the
Speaker 4: fact that the NFL is in a rainbow, like they
Speaker 4: have the logo of the NFL with rainbow codes on it.
Speaker 4: That alone is and you know that's very simple, but
Speaker 4: that's very as progressive as well, you know, because like
Speaker 4: you know, that's like seeing a lot of logos and
Speaker 4: things mean very strongly for people, you know, And so
Speaker 4: seeing the NFL shield and like I said, with the
Speaker 4: real white and blue and all of that, and then
Speaker 4: it's now a rainbow and you know, in supportive of
Speaker 4: especially whether it be in June, in Pride months and
Speaker 4: stuff like that, you know that that speaks volumes for
Speaker 4: the people who feel represented because there are you know,
Speaker 4: coaches and stuff as well, like a lot of the
Speaker 4: women coaches in the league that are that are gay.
Speaker 4: You know, that helps them like they feel seen, and so, uh,
Speaker 4: you know, I think we're definitely making a little more
Speaker 4: progress just the simple fact that Carl has been in
Speaker 4: the league and able to get opportunities, especially on different teams.
Speaker 4: I feel like he's been on at least two teams,
Speaker 4: and so just that fact alone is showing that it's
Speaker 4: a little bit more progressive. And and then as far
Speaker 4: as just allyship uh you know, like I said this
Speaker 4: from the start.
Speaker 5: This is not a.
Speaker 4: Push to persuade anybody to do anything or to be
Speaker 4: a certain way. It's just a push to accept people
Speaker 4: how they are, you know what I mean. So I
Speaker 4: don't think that I think that you know, we're we're
Speaker 4: making progress and we're making strides towards accepting people for
Speaker 4: who they are.
Speaker 2: Well, you know, push is always an interesting word when
Speaker 2: it comes to talking about the queer community because and
Speaker 2: I've had this conversation at Nausen with other hetero sexuals
Speaker 2: who are who sometimes will express that same you're pushing
Speaker 2: it on and this and that, And I was like,
Speaker 2: existence and pushing are two different things, and they don't
Speaker 2: seem to be able to separate the two. Is that
Speaker 2: you know, they should be allowed to exist much in
Speaker 2: the same way we exist as hetero sexuals, right, Like
Speaker 2: they should be able to do these same things. And
Speaker 2: so really a lot of times is that some people
Speaker 2: would just prefer them not to exist. And that is
Speaker 2: a different, you know, sort of conversation. And I was
Speaker 2: so glad that earlier that you brought up the fact
Speaker 2: that you know, as a young boy, you knew your crushes.
Speaker 2: I mean, people do it all the time, little boys
Speaker 2: ask them like who you got a crush on?
Speaker 5: Or whatever.
Speaker 1: It's like, so this.
Speaker 2: Idea that children are not aware of sexuality is frankly
Speaker 2: not true. It is not and so I find that
Speaker 2: that sometimes can be, you know, a bit of a roadblock.
Speaker 2: You brought up how the NFL has embraced Pride Month,
Speaker 2: and I saw the ad that they had that the
Speaker 2: opening title card.
Speaker 1: Was the NFL is Gay, And as soon as I
Speaker 1: saw that, I.
Speaker 5: Was like that.
Speaker 2: Already you have, like former player Des Brian, some other
Speaker 2: players who have not felt very positively towards that message.
Speaker 1: What was your take on the campaign?
Speaker 4: Man? It's just like, I don't know how people can't
Speaker 4: dissociate like their feeling is about something just to see
Speaker 4: stuff for facts in black and white, you know, because.
Speaker 5: That obviously the message is not.
Speaker 4: Like what what makes you think that whoever made this
Speaker 4: video was saying everybody in the NFL is gay?
Speaker 5: You know?
Speaker 4: And that's why it's like some of this stuff is
Speaker 4: just laughable because it's almost like explaining it to a child.
Speaker 5: I have four children now, and.
Speaker 4: These are the type of things that I would have
Speaker 4: to explain to them, like, no, baby, they're not saying
Speaker 4: that Daddy not gay is because it's like, you know,
Speaker 4: clearly they're saying that this there is that within the space.
Speaker 4: They're not saying that everybody within this space is that.
Speaker 5: So it's like it's.
Speaker 4: Almost like I said, it's almost laughable because people take
Speaker 4: what they want to take, and they take the messages
Speaker 4: how they want to because like you said, right when
Speaker 4: you seeing that and you knew how it was gonna
Speaker 4: because just like when I announced this camp, I immediately knew,
Speaker 4: Like I was talking about my marketing agent and I said,
Speaker 4: I already know that there's gonna be at least half
Speaker 4: of the app that says, oh wow, either A he
Speaker 4: is gay himself or B he's trying to make our
Speaker 4: children gay.
Speaker 5: I already knew that.
Speaker 4: But it's like, when you know what you really are
Speaker 4: trying to accomplish, you can see past all of that.
Speaker 4: And I feel like, you know, you know, and I
Speaker 4: does bright a great player and all of that in
Speaker 4: that regard, but you know, if you can't just look
Speaker 4: past that, you know, initial feeling of he's calling me
Speaker 4: gay or something like that, you know you can't you'll
Speaker 4: never understand what that what's truly trying to be accomplished,
Speaker 4: and is that you never know.
Speaker 5: I mean, I ain't gonna wish on.
Speaker 4: Dens or anybody, but like, if you have a son
Speaker 4: who eventually identifies as a gay person, how are you
Speaker 4: going to accept that?
Speaker 5: How are you going to treat that? You know what
Speaker 5: I mean?
Speaker 4: Are you going to a run away from it and
Speaker 4: disown your kid and stuff like that, which that's very
Speaker 4: prevalent and especially in a black community, Or are you
Speaker 4: going to be a good person and parents or child?
Speaker 5: You know what I mean, As.
Speaker 4: Simple as that sounds, it shouldn't take much more thought
Speaker 4: than this came for me, and I need to nurture it.
Speaker 4: But you know, some people need more convincing to be
Speaker 4: a parent, so which is unfortunate. But you know, hey,
Speaker 4: I feel like, you know, we're getting to that time
Speaker 4: where we just got to sit down as a society
Speaker 4: and really understand what messages are being construed and what
Speaker 4: we're taken from these messages, because people take what they
Speaker 4: want to take. Like you hear a message, we can
Speaker 4: hear the same message and interpreted two different ways. And
Speaker 4: I feel like there's there a lot of times are
Speaker 4: very clearly one way that a message should have been.
Speaker 2: Taken so there, and I think you understand this even
Speaker 2: more innately as a as a black man when it
Speaker 2: comes to allyship, we know who our allies are, and
Speaker 2: we know who they are, and we know what that
Speaker 2: looks like from what you've been able to learn as
Speaker 2: an ally, what would you say as people try to
Speaker 2: figure out ways that they can be a better ally,
Speaker 2: be it to the queer community, be it to the
Speaker 2: black community, whatever marginalized group, what would you say are
Speaker 2: some things that people who want to be allies should
Speaker 2: do in order to you know, prove like, hey, I'm
Speaker 2: in this for something real.
Speaker 5: Right.
Speaker 4: The first, very first thing that I can say for
Speaker 4: a person to do is to treat people how you
Speaker 4: want to be treated.
Speaker 5: Right. So that's very generic.
Speaker 4: All of our grandmamas has told us that, but we
Speaker 4: really take a step back and look at the root
Speaker 4: of the phrase and like, just the real meaning of
Speaker 4: the phrase is that, you know, obviously and broken down
Speaker 4: in the simplest terms, you know, explaining to a child,
Speaker 4: you'll be like, Okay, if you know you don't want
Speaker 4: somebody to punch you in your eye, don't punch them
Speaker 4: in their eye, right, So that's how you break it
Speaker 4: down in terms of a child. But then you you know,
Speaker 4: get into the more into the intricacies of life and
Speaker 4: growing up as an adult, and then you see, okay,
Speaker 4: it's not just physical. Okay, maybe I don't you know,
Speaker 4: I've been having this whatever day type of day I've
Speaker 4: been having, and I don't want to go to somewhere
Speaker 4: I feel that I'm you know, going there to be comforting,
Speaker 4: like Starbucks or something.
Speaker 5: I'm like, Okay, this has.
Speaker 4: Been a bad day, but at least I get to
Speaker 4: give me a cheese danish and whatever. And then I
Speaker 4: go in there and here's somebody say, look at this faggot,
Speaker 4: Like you know what I'm saying, Like, I feel like
Speaker 4: it's common it's very common sense to not do that.
Speaker 4: But I feel like, also, you know, as much as
Speaker 4: racism and other forms of hate, there learned and pass
Speaker 4: through generations, so you know, we've learned that being gay
Speaker 4: is wrong from prior generations and that's been passed down.
Speaker 4: And then you'll get to a and to a guy
Speaker 4: who was born in two thousand and four and you
Speaker 4: be like, you know, why do you hey gay people?
Speaker 5: I'm like, I don't know.
Speaker 4: He really don't even know he's just because his dad
Speaker 4: didn't like it. I mean, his granddad didn't like it,
Speaker 4: and his great granddad didn't like it. So, you know,
Speaker 4: I feel like we're trying to break that way of
Speaker 4: thinking of just generational thinking, and you know, trying to
Speaker 4: make it a better society going forward in general for everybody.
Speaker 5: You know.
Speaker 2: Also, a component of allyship is risk. And I had
Speaker 2: a conversation with a former NFL punter, Chris Coleoi. He
Speaker 2: was a guest on the podcast, and when he played
Speaker 2: for the Vikings, he aligned himself with queer causes, you know,
Speaker 2: because I think I think gay marriage may have been
Speaker 2: a debater on the table, and so he showed up
Speaker 2: for that community and it was not received well by
Speaker 2: the organization, you know, not not necessarily about the cause,
Speaker 2: but mostly about the level of how polarizing the issue
Speaker 2: can be. And you know, it's the number one word
Speaker 2: that they hate in the NFL distraction. So were you
Speaker 2: ever concerned about or how much were you concerned that
Speaker 2: putting yourself out there in this way as an ally
Speaker 2: to this community that maybe from an organizational standpoint, it
Speaker 2: might be frowned upon, or maybe it could cost you opportunities.
Speaker 1: Like, how concern were you about that?
Speaker 4: Yeah, you know, that's obviously a huge concern. But at
Speaker 4: the end of the day, you know, I'm not gonna
Speaker 4: be playing in the NFL for that long. I'm not
Speaker 4: gonna be not for that long, but I'm not going
Speaker 4: to be you know, this is a this is a
Speaker 4: short lived career. I'm blessed of make it to seven years.
Speaker 4: But you know, there's no guarantee that you play for forever.
Speaker 4: But I'm gonna be an ally to my brother for forever,
Speaker 4: you know what I mean. That's gonna be my brother forever.
Speaker 4: I'm not going to be an NFL player forever, but
Speaker 4: that's gonna be my brother forever. And you know, I
Speaker 4: think that there's a way of doing things as well.
Speaker 4: You know that that I try my best to not
Speaker 4: offend anybody with anything that I do, which is why
Speaker 4: I'm not like saying, hey, if you don't come to
Speaker 4: this camp, you're wrong and stuff like that, Like, no,
Speaker 4: it's not like that. Like I said, if you don't
Speaker 4: support when i'm the message that I'm purtruing, then I'm not.
Speaker 4: You know, I have no problem with that at all,
Speaker 4: you know, and you can go your separate way, and
Speaker 4: then I'll just try and like I said, cultivate environment
Speaker 4: of learning and empathy as opposed to you know, a
Speaker 4: negativity and just following what the next person does.
Speaker 5: And so you know, I think that you.
Speaker 4: Know, my my biggest go or my biggest attribute, and
Speaker 4: as far as not being distracted in the NFL is
Speaker 4: just genuineus, Like this is.
Speaker 5: Genuinely who I am.
Speaker 4: And my team knows that, my team has met my
Speaker 4: brother plenty of times. And just like you know, when
Speaker 4: when they want to ask questions about my allyship and
Speaker 4: stuff like that, like if you can ask questions about it,
Speaker 4: then it can't be a distraction for me because they're
Speaker 4: asking the same you know what I mean, Like I'm
Speaker 4: getting reporters asking questions about my brother and him dancing
Speaker 4: and being on tour and all that stuff like that.
Speaker 4: So if it's not a distraction, then it's not a
Speaker 4: distraction when I want to bring it up conveniently for
Speaker 4: myself as well.
Speaker 1: With your brother, So who knows more about which do
Speaker 1: you know more about Taylor Swift or does he know
Speaker 1: more about football?
Speaker 5: Yeah? He definitely.
Speaker 1: He's on tour with Taylor Swift.
Speaker 5: I think it's over with. Yeah, it's over with now.
Speaker 4: But yeah he was, Yeah he was, but no, he
Speaker 4: definitely know more about football. Yeah, because I realized he's
Speaker 4: been playing. I've been playing football since I was eight,
Speaker 4: like he been on tour with her for two years.
Speaker 4: So I will I will say admittedly I did learn
Speaker 4: a lot more of her songs and I didn't. I
Speaker 4: knew more songs that I then I thought I knew too.
Speaker 4: But that being said, no, he definitely knows more about football.
Speaker 4: Like I've been doing this since I was seven, eight
Speaker 4: years old, he's been and he been almost every game.
Speaker 1: So did you go to a Taylor Swift show to
Speaker 1: see Oh.
Speaker 4: Yeah, oh yeah I've been. I've been about three of them,
Speaker 4: so yeah, I've seen them.
Speaker 1: For sure, So I guess it was. It would have
Speaker 1: been interesting because you left the Chiefs in.
Speaker 5: Two years ago. Two years ago, so I'm going on
Speaker 5: my third year with the.
Speaker 2: Facts, right, So this preceded Taylor Swift and Travis Kelsey.
Speaker 5: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, I was.
Speaker 1: Now imagine if you would.
Speaker 5: Yeah, doesn't everybody.
Speaker 1: Say your brother to it?
Speaker 5: That would have been Yeah, that's everybody's been asked.
Speaker 4: I'm like, yeah, we ain't have they Just that happened
Speaker 4: and then all these questions started a rising.
Speaker 5: I'm like, did we do something like what? But no,
Speaker 5: you know that was just it was.
Speaker 4: It's just a series of events that just just went
Speaker 4: like that. But you know it was crazy though when
Speaker 4: I got end up getting traded and then you know,
Speaker 4: all of that happened. But I love I love Trav.
Speaker 4: You know, that's my guy, one of my favorite teammates.
Speaker 4: So I'm happy that he's happy.
Speaker 1: Have you been able to meet Taylor Swift through your brother?
Speaker 4: Actually no, I've you know, I've been to a lot
Speaker 4: of her shows and stuff like that, but I you know,
Speaker 4: I come for Cam, you know what I mean, like
Speaker 4: and you know, Taylor Swift is the cool probably the
Speaker 4: coolest boss you can ever have. But you know, I
Speaker 4: come and I and I support and I'm just trying to,
Speaker 4: you know, give give that love, support that he's always
Speaker 4: given me and whenever he comes to my game.
Speaker 2: So all right, well, Colin, I I conclude every podcast
Speaker 2: by asking what I call a messy question, a question
Speaker 2: design to trick you into making a headline. So you
Speaker 2: had not too long ago, some very strong opinions about
Speaker 2: whether or not football players. And this was based off
Speaker 2: I guess to get the fullbacks. Jason Tatum had ridicule
Speaker 2: football players who tried to play basketball, right and saying
Speaker 2: that that's one of the funniest things he's ever seen.
Speaker 2: Is like when football players try to play basketball. You
Speaker 2: have taken exception to this, all right, So which sport
Speaker 2: has better athletes? Basketball or football?
Speaker 4: Football better athletes? That's like, like you don't even that's
Speaker 4: not even a question.
Speaker 5: Have you ever seen Tyreek Gill do anything?
Speaker 4: Yes, Like this man is like five foot one and
Speaker 4: can do an East Bay windmill? Like come on now,
Speaker 4: Like that's you just don't see that in other sports.
Speaker 4: So yeah, football got the best athletes for sure.
Speaker 2: Now, when it comes to playing basketball, if do you
Speaker 2: think you could assemble a team of a team of
Speaker 2: football players who could give some basketball players and run.
Speaker 1: The idea of.
Speaker 2: Say, let's say flag football, of putting together a team
Speaker 2: of basketball players that can get you all run in
Speaker 2: some flag.
Speaker 1: So say tackle because that's.
Speaker 4: The point, because that's the thing, right we played, This
Speaker 4: sport is tackle football, Like because when you're getting the flag,
Speaker 4: now you're talking about like the Olympic, Dude, that's saying
Speaker 4: he better than Tyreka that is he we don't know.
Speaker 4: What we play is tackle football, right, So do I
Speaker 4: think you can form a team of NBA players play?
Speaker 5: No?
Speaker 4: Absolutely, not like I will torch anybody in a one
Speaker 4: on one in the entire NBA in a pass words
Speaker 4: one on one, I promise you. But by the same token, yes,
Speaker 4: if we game up with a five and then win
Speaker 4: against you know, all these NBA players, but they win absolutely.
Speaker 5: But you think like you.
Speaker 2: Feel like your skill level as a basketball player is
Speaker 2: much closer to theirs than theirs their skill level as
Speaker 2: a football You do because.
Speaker 4: Because think about it, some guys the NBA hat Rudy Gobert.
Speaker 5: Like I'm not saying he bad or nothing, but like
Speaker 5: what is his job?
Speaker 4: It's rebounds and stuff like like exactly, Like, so you
Speaker 4: got you got guys who are specifically there for one reason.
Speaker 4: You tell me we can't find the best shooter in
Speaker 4: the NFL. Send him in the corner and have somebody
Speaker 4: that's tall enough to drive and kick it to him every.
Speaker 5: Time at the end the day is a shot that
Speaker 5: is fifty to fifty.
Speaker 4: That's what I always live by. So if he gonna
Speaker 4: make that shot, he gonna make it. If he don't,
Speaker 4: he don't. Now with the NBA players, probably be able
Speaker 4: to shoot a little better, yes, but that's not act
Speaker 4: like we don't train footwork every every single day. Like
Speaker 4: it's easy to slide. It's easier to slide with people
Speaker 4: that you think like and then we big bodies.
Speaker 5: So I don't know.
Speaker 4: I just I take exceptions to that because I can hoop,
Speaker 4: I plat out, I can hoop.
Speaker 5: I've played with some of the professionals.
Speaker 4: I played with Obie Topping and PG and uh Kobe
Speaker 4: White and proactive, and you can ask them I can
Speaker 4: do this for real. Now, my endurance, that's where they
Speaker 4: win it. That's where they win because up and down court,
Speaker 4: I get it. Y'all might have a sorry, but you
Speaker 4: give me a team of like you know what I'm saying.
Speaker 4: I mean because DK ain't even that tall, but DK metcalf.
Speaker 4: It's like you got to measure the height and the strength, Like, yeah,
Speaker 4: he's only sixty four, but are you backing him down?
Speaker 5: No, you're not.
Speaker 4: You can shoot over him, but he's he can jump too,
Speaker 4: so he's gonna contest the shot. It's not like you're
Speaker 4: just playing against you know, somebody who don't know how
Speaker 4: to be athletic.
Speaker 5: You know what I'm saying.
Speaker 4: That's what kills me about the whole thing, because you
Speaker 4: got guys who literally do one thing on the court
Speaker 4: and make a living off of it, and apparently you
Speaker 4: don't think that we can go. If I went and
Speaker 4: specialized in shooting one shot my entire career and that
Speaker 4: was all I did was sit in the corner, I
Speaker 4: can I would make that shot more times than I
Speaker 4: miss it. As opposed to of them, We've seen dramnd
Speaker 4: trying to play football like I'm not just making this up, bro,
Speaker 4: Like they you can't if not seven on seven different
Speaker 4: whereas the contact is limited and that's different. But if
Speaker 4: I'm putting my hands on any of them people in
Speaker 4: the NBA, I don't care. I will honestly confidently say
Speaker 4: I don't think one person in the NBA can stop
Speaker 4: me from getting to a quarterback.
Speaker 5: Now. Do I think I can score on somebody the NBA? Absolutely?
Speaker 2: Oh absolutely, There's something I would love a made for TV.
Speaker 4: Yeah, pros Versus Jones. I remember on Spike TV pros
Speaker 4: Verse Joe that.
Speaker 5: Was my favorite.
Speaker 4: I want to bring that back so bad because well
Speaker 4: that's outside of the NBA versus NFL.
Speaker 5: That was more so the Twitter trolls, and I would
Speaker 5: love I would love that as well.
Speaker 2: But yeah, at yeah, yeah yeah.
Speaker 1: Interesting.
Speaker 2: So you're saying that if you know, if Lebron James
Speaker 2: is protecting Patrick Mahomes, you're gonna get past.
Speaker 5: Them thousand percent one percent. I love like Bron and
Speaker 5: that's fine.
Speaker 1: I hate it.
Speaker 5: That's fine, so so is Tyren Smith.
Speaker 4: But guess what, Tyler Smith six eight with three fifteen though,
Speaker 4: like you think Bron, come on, I love Bron, Bron
Speaker 4: my goat, but Ron gonna feel his long arm and
Speaker 4: stab club rip and that.
Speaker 5: Boy gonna be like, wow, I am not good at this.
Speaker 5: Just what it is.
Speaker 4: I'm in doing this b Like, I'm sorry you whoever y'all, biggest, baddest,
Speaker 4: you know what I'm saying, Big baby Davis, whoever they
Speaker 4: want to break, it's not gonna work.
Speaker 1: You.
Speaker 5: You ain't trained when I trained, like you can't.
Speaker 4: Have you ever seen the video of Kevin Durant trying
Speaker 4: to pass rush on a like a not even in
Speaker 4: the NFL, oh tackle and get him up like that's
Speaker 4: that's what this will be like real, for real, And
Speaker 4: I'm very confident in that because until you feel that,
Speaker 4: like until you feel what it feels like to get
Speaker 4: picked on a game or a three hundred pounds man
Speaker 4: come hit all of this and you like this like
Speaker 4: till you feel that, you don't know how that like
Speaker 4: you and the felt little elbow and the ribs on
Speaker 4: the jump shot. But you ain't felt, Uh what's you
Speaker 4: ain't felt? What's doing on the Eagles? Jalen Carter? You
Speaker 4: know what I'm saying, coming full speed in the side
Speaker 4: of your head, like straight helmet right here.
Speaker 5: You ain't felt there before, and you can't that.
Speaker 4: It's a different kind of pain like we're going through
Speaker 4: real car crashes every play. Yeah, and that's why I
Speaker 4: said I'm not gonna argue the flag football because that's
Speaker 4: it's not the same No, no, see that's not That's
Speaker 4: not the same sport football. The contact makes a huge
Speaker 4: difference problem.
Speaker 1: What you heard her first?
Speaker 2: You call NBA players off, It's okay.
Speaker 5: Whatever they want to say.
Speaker 4: I just know if you tell me, if all right,
Speaker 4: out of ten possessions and I got to score a
Speaker 4: bucket and then ten possessions, I got to get a
Speaker 4: pass rush.
Speaker 1: You going ten for ten.
Speaker 4: I'm going ten for ten pass rush, and then I
Speaker 4: might go like three of ten. But the fact that
Speaker 4: I can go three of ten and you can't go
Speaker 4: zero of you will go zero of ten on me
Speaker 4: like trying to protect me from getting the pass that
Speaker 4: to let you know who's better, it was sport.
Speaker 1: I can't wait to ask a basketball player this question.
Speaker 1: This is gonna be amazing.
Speaker 2: Well, Colin, thank you so much for joining me for
Speaker 2: this episode of politics. Your camp is July fifth, fifth already,
Speaker 2: just real quick? Have you do you anticipate that there
Speaker 2: will be some LGBTQ plus youth that will be at
Speaker 2: the camp.
Speaker 5: Yeah?
Speaker 4: Absolutely, you know, I know, I don't know about the
Speaker 4: specifics of who will be there as far as the youth,
Speaker 4: but I've been getting so much support and just outreach
Speaker 4: from you know, social media influencers and people that you know,
Speaker 4: maybe not the youth, but like I just did some
Speaker 4: work with It's a page on Instagram called Rainbow Dads
Speaker 4: and they they are two dads that are married, they
Speaker 4: have a son who is you know, the youth. So
Speaker 4: situations like that where the parents are actually in the
Speaker 4: community and they just wanted to have their kids come
Speaker 4: and learn.
Speaker 5: About the community a little more.
Speaker 4: That I've been getting a lot of that as well,
Speaker 4: So even all the way from that to people want
Speaker 4: to volunteer and just help the calls and you know,
Speaker 4: help it be a great day.
Speaker 5: So yeah, I've been getting I've been getting a lot
Speaker 5: of outreach.
Speaker 2: Okay, well July fifth and it's taking places and St.
Speaker 2: Louis all right, So make sure everybody make sure you
Speaker 2: check that out. If you want more information, make sure
Speaker 2: that you go to original element dot org. Good luck
Speaker 2: with everything, Good luck with this season. I really appreciate
Speaker 2: you joining me absolutely. One more segment to go coming
Speaker 2: up next, the Final Spin. All right, Tom out for
Speaker 2: the Final Spin. The headline, WNBA players vote Kaitlyn Clark
Speaker 2: ninth the mong guards in All Star voting. The spin,
Speaker 2: WNBA players are jealous of Kaitlyn Clark.
Speaker 1: The truth.
Speaker 2: I hated that dig Bytell, who I have a lot
Speaker 2: of respect for, used his social media platform to spread
Speaker 2: such a terrible narrative. I respect you, Dicky B, but
Speaker 2: you were missing some key context.
Speaker 1: Let me learn you.
Speaker 2: WNBA all Stars are determined based on three components.
Speaker 1: The fan vote, a media vote, and a player vote.
Speaker 2: The fan vote accounts for fifty percent, the media vote
Speaker 2: and the player vote account for the other fifty twenty
Speaker 2: five percent each. Kaitlyn Clark finished first in the fan
Speaker 2: voting by a significant margin because she got the most
Speaker 2: fan votes. She finished third in the media vote and
Speaker 2: ninth in the players. But here's the thing, the players
Speaker 2: didn't actually vote her ninth.
Speaker 1: They couldn't.
Speaker 2: The players can vote on four guards and six front
Speaker 2: court players. Caitlin Clark did not make it in the
Speaker 2: top four of enough player ballots. Therefore, it dropped her
Speaker 2: cumulative score to ninth, best among guards.
Speaker 1: So again, the players did not vote her ninth.
Speaker 2: But it's really not that controversial that a lot of
Speaker 2: players didn't have her in their top four. Here's why.
Speaker 2: Caitlyn Clark has missed half of the Indiana Fevers games
Speaker 2: due to injury. As of the recording of this podcast,
Speaker 2: she is averaging six turnovers a game, which is highest
Speaker 2: in the league. She is also shooting twenty nine percent
Speaker 2: from three and thirty nine percent overall, and while she
Speaker 2: is averaging eighteen and a half points per game by
Speaker 2: any objective measure, she has not had a great season
Speaker 2: and those are not All Star numbers, so based on that,
Speaker 2: isn't really that controversial that the players.
Speaker 1: Didn't rank her in the top four.
Speaker 2: Also, my suspicion is that the players knew she was
Speaker 2: a lot for the All Star Game anyway, and they
Speaker 2: may have purposely used their ballots to get other players
Speaker 2: who probably weren't going to get strong fans support.
Speaker 1: Or maybe even media support some recognition.
Speaker 2: Caitlyn is the most popular player in the WNBA, and
Speaker 2: the All Star Game is in Indianapolis. The odds of
Speaker 2: her not making the All Star team were less than zero.
Speaker 2: Caitlyn was named a captain for the All Star Game,
Speaker 2: so all this whining about the player vote is truly inconsequential.
Speaker 2: I'm just tired of this narrative that the players are
Speaker 2: all jealous of her, and I am convinced this narrative
Speaker 2: wouldn't be nearly as persistent if the WNBA wasn't seventy
Speaker 2: percent black. The racial pornography of positioning black women as
Speaker 2: villains of the darling white girl is just too irresistible
Speaker 2: for some people. Even though Sabrina i and Escu and
Speaker 2: Paige Beckers, both of whom are white, finished second and
Speaker 2: fourth among the players respectively. Hell, if anyone should have
Speaker 2: been pissed, it should be Kelsey Blum, who is averaging
Speaker 2: more points, shooting better from the field and from three
Speaker 2: point range than Kaitlyn Clark, and the composite voting dropped
Speaker 2: her to sixteenth among the players.
Speaker 1: There are not fifteen.
Speaker 2: Better point guards than Kelsey Plum, nor are there eight
Speaker 2: point guards better than Kaitlyn Clark. But don't blame the players,
Speaker 2: blame the composite numbers. This concludes another episode of Politics.
Speaker 2: Make sure you get at me on social media or email.
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