Speaker 1: I miss a green for example, I'm already upset.
Speaker 2: When I find my ball in the bunker, I'm really upset.
Speaker 1: And when I find my ball in a fried.
Speaker 2: Egg Friday egg, the dreaded Frida Egg Friday, Frida Egg
Speaker 2: brid Egg, Frida Egg Bride Egg Lie.
Speaker 1: I'm about ready to run off of the hump course.
Speaker 1: Welcome back to the Frida Egg Golf Podcast. I am
Speaker 1: your host, Andy Johnson, and today I'm really excited. We
Speaker 1: got some new stuff cooking. If you haven't been to
Speaker 1: our website in a while, we've been uh investing a
Speaker 1: lot of time and energy into the website. We've got
Speaker 1: Bo on our team who you probably have never heard of.
Speaker 1: He does great work on the web website, constantly improving
Speaker 1: it and the latest feature is called fried Egg Guides.
Speaker 1: So what we're going to do with these pages is
Speaker 1: kind of breakdown popular destinations. So this podcast is all
Speaker 1: about a couple popular destinations Pinehurst, Sand Valley and as
Speaker 1: well as Northern Ireland. And you should go check out
Speaker 1: the website, thefrid Egg dot com and go find the
Speaker 1: guide pages. They'll be easy to find right on the
Speaker 1: home page and you can read about all these destinations
Speaker 1: as well, So check out the website if you haven't
Speaker 1: been there in a while. We've done a lot of
Speaker 1: work on that and there's a ton of stuff to
Speaker 1: read about golf courses on the website, tons of photos
Speaker 1: to produce through, so check that out and other big
Speaker 1: Fried Egg news. We're really excited we have published our
Speaker 1: first book. It's a coffee table book and it's spent
Speaker 1: something that we've talked about doing lots of people have
Speaker 1: asked us to do for years and really excited about
Speaker 1: this one. It's gonna be volume one of uh, you know,
Speaker 1: books about golf courses that we create. This one. The
Speaker 1: theme of it is, uh, it's really centered. We turned
Speaker 1: ten years old, so it's been ten years since the
Speaker 1: start of this which is wild in December. But the
Speaker 1: theme of this volume one is golf courses that shaped
Speaker 1: Friday Golf. So it's it's a lot of golf courses
Speaker 1: that we visited in the early years and it's it's
Speaker 1: writing about those photographs from those and you can pre
Speaker 1: order this book at proshop dot Thefrida Egg dot com.
Speaker 1: I'm pretty excited about it. I think it's going to
Speaker 1: be a very beautiful book and lots of photography and
Speaker 1: and some really good writ in the book. So big
Speaker 1: thanks to our entire team that has kind of pulled
Speaker 1: this together, all the writing and there, I think it's
Speaker 1: predominantly between me, Garrett Morrison, and Matt Rusch's it's it's
Speaker 1: all about golf courses. So this is a great gift
Speaker 1: for the holidays. This is a great book for your
Speaker 1: coffee table, your office, wherever it may be. I think
Speaker 1: our idea we wanted to design something that felt a
Speaker 1: little bit different than your your standard golf book. So
Speaker 1: I'm really excited about this. I've looked at uh, I've
Speaker 1: gotten some advance not a copy. I haven't gotten an
Speaker 1: official copy yet, but I got the pages. You know,
Speaker 1: I don't know how these book things work, but I
Speaker 1: got pages. I got sent just a a big pile
Speaker 1: of pages that were the pages of the book, and
Speaker 1: the covers covers yellow. It should be. It's pretty cool.
Speaker 1: I'm excited about that. So it's at proshop dot thefried
Speaker 1: egg dot com. You can see that there. And let's
Speaker 1: get to our guests. So joining us on this episode
Speaker 1: are a couple members are our team that put together
Speaker 1: these various guides. I've been to all these destinations, so
Speaker 1: you know, riveting discussion about all of them. We are
Speaker 1: joined by Brendan Poorath, Will Knights and Abby Libenthal on
Speaker 1: this episode to break down these various destinations. All right,
Speaker 1: let's get to Brendan Poorath and let's talk about Northern Ireland.
Speaker 1: All right, Brendan, welcome on this side of the podcast world.
Speaker 1: How are you.
Speaker 3: It's good to be here.
Speaker 4: I have to talk in more hush tones and use
Speaker 4: some fancier terms on the side. Just be yourself, all right,
Speaker 4: make more MPR type phrases, turn of phrases.
Speaker 1: Okay, I don't think that's this this podcast. No, I don't, Yeah,
Speaker 1: this is this is a fairly low brow podcast. That's
Speaker 1: not true. We are talking about your your Guide of
Speaker 1: Northern Ireland. New website features very exciting We went to
Speaker 1: Northern Ireland together. We did a whole podcast feed about it.
Speaker 1: If anybody wants to dive in really deep, it's called Explorations.
Speaker 1: It's in there. But you wrote about your your experience
Speaker 1: going to Northern Ireland. You obviously went this year again
Speaker 1: for the Open Championships, so you've got two weeks of
Speaker 1: your life under your belt in Northern Ireland. Obviously haven't
Speaker 1: seen everything, but you know you've seen some stuff. You've
Speaker 1: you're you're more more educated than most about the subject
Speaker 1: in America, not not in Northern Ireland. What are your
Speaker 1: kind of tips other than don't get lost in downtown
Speaker 1: Port Rush.
Speaker 4: That was the great amusement of the Open Championship was
Speaker 4: Joseph referring to a downtown Port Rush. And I think
Speaker 4: the entire country of Northern Ireland seeing this TikTok and
Speaker 4: mocking him for a week or two on end. I
Speaker 4: don't understand the TikTok bloodstreams or how it got there.
Speaker 4: But yes, there is no downtown Port Rush. There's just
Speaker 4: Port Rush. Port Rushi is a small town, so it's substantive.
Speaker 4: It is a town. It's not like you know, one intersection.
Speaker 4: It's substantive. It's a port. But I don't think you
Speaker 4: could characterize as mid downtown uptown. It's just Port Rush. Ah,
Speaker 4: But that became a subject of amusement to the locals. Yeah,
Speaker 4: I think the first thing, like, obviously we're excited about
Speaker 4: these guides on the website, and as you stated, I've
Speaker 4: been there twice now in two years. I don't think
Speaker 4: we're narcissistic enough or diluted enough to suggest this is
Speaker 4: the end albeit all noah at all, but it is
Speaker 4: like we have pretty substantive experience going there for I
Speaker 4: don't know about twenty days of my life the last
Speaker 4: two years, and leaning on the locals who have lived
Speaker 4: there their whole lives, like we get a flood of recommendations,
Speaker 4: a flood of do not go there, overrated, that's shite
Speaker 4: or whatever you want to call it, from the locals,
Speaker 4: And that's kind of what we've done to compile the guide.
Speaker 4: I think, you know, the overarching, overarching takeaway is the
Speaker 4: fact that I've been there twice in about I don't know,
Speaker 4: twenty five months or so, or no, thirteen months, thirteen months,
Speaker 4: you know, twice in about thirteen months suggests that it's
Speaker 4: much more within reach than I thought, right, And sometimes
Speaker 4: the idea of going international, the idea of planning international,
Speaker 4: is way more daunting than just actually going and doing it.
Speaker 4: And once you do it, like, ah, that's not that bad, right.
Speaker 4: It's sort of like the you got a surgery or something,
Speaker 4: so like a dent disappointment, you're way more worked up
Speaker 4: about it then what actually happened, and then like getting
Speaker 4: there is just not that hard, especially as an East
Speaker 4: coaster in the United States. It's almost too short on
Speaker 4: the way over as a red eye, it's like there's
Speaker 4: not a lot of sleep in time. It's five five
Speaker 4: and a half to Dublin.
Speaker 1: You're saying this to man that has a series of
Speaker 1: red eyes in this near future that are all shorter
Speaker 1: than that red eye.
Speaker 4: Right, I understand, it's just it is too short if
Speaker 4: you're really trying to get a lot of sleep, more
Speaker 4: than a couple hours. But it's so within reach you leave.
Speaker 4: And this I speak as someone who had travel difficulties
Speaker 4: on this last go round. I still maintain this point
Speaker 4: of view that is not that hard. And you're in
Speaker 4: Northern Ireland. You're in Newcastle within two hours of landing
Speaker 4: in Dublin if you don't choose to stay in Dublin,
Speaker 4: which I would suggest, if you're going to Dublin, you're
Speaker 4: flying in and out of Dublin. You append a couple
Speaker 4: of days to your trip to experience Dublin. But it
Speaker 4: is so for an East Coast or New York, DC, Boston.
Speaker 4: Let's be honest, it's probably easier to get to than
Speaker 4: some remote, remote American resorts.
Speaker 1: Yeah. I think that's the thing that I always feel
Speaker 1: when I get over abroad, is that I feel this like,
Speaker 1: and I live on the other side of the country,
Speaker 1: is I feel like, that wasn't that bad? Now for me,
Speaker 1: the eight hour time change, communicating with my family that
Speaker 1: we that is challenging, like that that presents unique challenges.
Speaker 1: But when I get there, I'm like, this was not
Speaker 1: that bad. And every time I'm there, I'm kind of
Speaker 1: thinking to myself, why don't I do this more often?
Speaker 1: But then when I get home it becomes daunting again.
Speaker 1: And I do think for the East Coast, this is
Speaker 1: extraordinarily easy. This is you know, direct flight into Dublin,
Speaker 1: direct flights into Edinburgh, direct flights into you know, various
Speaker 1: you know, London. These are all very achievable and fairly
Speaker 1: easy things to do. And if you're looking at like all,
Speaker 1: like I think what's particularly interesting is like when you
Speaker 1: start looking off peak, you know, non summer travel, like
Speaker 1: very affordable flights.
Speaker 4: Totally. It was another thing. I'm very inexpensive, and I
Speaker 4: went July from DC. I booked it maybe two months
Speaker 4: in advance. I think it was like five hundred and
Speaker 4: six hundred bucks for like not the most basic whatever
Speaker 4: one not premium or not.
Speaker 3: I'm not conm like five.
Speaker 4: Hundred and six hundred dollars that's hard to get even
Speaker 4: to like cross country in the US nowadays, and that's
Speaker 4: in July.
Speaker 1: I think one of the things that uh and I
Speaker 1: don't want to speak for you, but one of the
Speaker 1: things that I was taken aback from our trip to
Speaker 1: Northern Ireland was I think people like Cement. This is
Speaker 1: a you know, in the like Let's be real, most
Speaker 1: people listening to this, most people reading these guides are
Speaker 1: going to go for golf trips. But one of my
Speaker 1: takeaways from our Northern Ireland trip was this is not
Speaker 1: strictly a golf trip destination. This can be a trip
Speaker 1: where I play a couple rounds of golf and also
Speaker 1: have my family with me.
Speaker 3: I would totally agree.
Speaker 4: I think when we were there, I would shade that
Speaker 4: is much more applicable to the Causeway Coast area. And
Speaker 4: writing this guide, I was thinking back a little bit more.
Speaker 4: I don't know if Newcastle like RCD like is the thing, right.
Speaker 4: It's a cool town, it is its own town. It's
Speaker 4: not a nothing Burger, But I feel like if you're
Speaker 4: going with your family like that really applies to the
Speaker 4: Causeway Coast area of Port Sewer, Port Port Rush, Port Ballintray.
Speaker 1: And that is the very northern part.
Speaker 4: Northern side of Northern Ireland, not the northern most part
Speaker 4: of the island of Ireland, and as Donegal actually was
Speaker 4: more north, but that's part of the Republic. Yes, the
Speaker 4: northernmost part of Northern Ireland is the Causeway Coast and
Speaker 4: I think there were several times when we were there
Speaker 4: we're like, oh, I kind of wish like we'd see
Speaker 4: like families and kids kind of bouncing around the beach
Speaker 4: or in the coffee shop, like I could do this.
Speaker 4: I think my wife could do this. I think my
Speaker 4: kids could do this. Now, all in them there is
Speaker 4: its own challenge, but there was it was much more
Speaker 4: than just you're only here to play golf. All you
Speaker 4: can do is play golf, and why would you do
Speaker 4: anything else around here? That for sure is the case
Speaker 4: on the North Coast.
Speaker 1: I think you you know, I obviously live in a
Speaker 1: part of the country that has a lot of active hikers,
Speaker 1: but you could make the case that if you if
Speaker 1: you're you know, into a couple other active lifestyle things
Speaker 1: such as hiking. Newcastle with the more mountains is like
Speaker 1: a a viable stop and there's stuff to do, Like
Speaker 1: I think, like one of my big regrets was that
Speaker 1: we didn't go do the Morn Mountain hike. It was
Speaker 1: probably because I had just completed a marathon days before
Speaker 1: and wasn't enough for the seven hundred foot incline.
Speaker 4: But the Morn Area of Outstanding Natural Beauty which is
Speaker 4: essentially like a National park right next to Newcastle RCD.
Speaker 1: And then the other thing I would hit on is
Speaker 1: port Rush, like some other towns in Ireland, very active
Speaker 1: surf culture. So if you are a surfer, which you know,
Speaker 1: there's I think there's a small subset of like people
Speaker 1: that love the idea of places I can go surf
Speaker 1: and golf at the same time. This is a small
Speaker 1: subset of golferst but this is this should be on
Speaker 1: the list of places where you can actively surf and
Speaker 1: golf along with the Hinch you know you could go
Speaker 1: down to. You know, there's a bunch of other places
Speaker 1: you know, all over but if you could do port
Speaker 1: Rush a surf there plus golf, that's about as good
Speaker 1: of golf, the golf version of that trip as you
Speaker 1: can get. I know, I know the waves can be
Speaker 1: a little inconsistent there, but it is does have an
Speaker 1: active surf culture.
Speaker 3: Yeah, that was.
Speaker 4: That always hoppen too in July when we were there
Speaker 4: for the Open, whether it was a surfing or just
Speaker 4: kids families on the beach. It was a little amusing
Speaker 4: to see like Americans and tourists over from for the
Speaker 4: Open and be like, oh my god, it's like seventy
Speaker 4: and windy and who knows what the water is, but
Speaker 4: it felt like one hundred to a lot of the people.
Speaker 4: It would just hoppen a lot of surfers, great beach
Speaker 4: scene there in July.
Speaker 1: It's hard you get centered on these golf trips and
Speaker 1: I feel like you don't always do the extracurricular activities. Sure,
Speaker 1: I think that is like some I regret from our trip,
Speaker 1: and it was March was I was. I regret that
Speaker 1: I didn't go in the water, like I didn't go
Speaker 1: in a swim. We were right next to the we
Speaker 1: were effectively stayed on the water, and I know Matt
Speaker 1: from our team went in. I did not go. I
Speaker 1: regret that, But there are extracurriculars.
Speaker 2: You know.
Speaker 1: A couple of things we did do that I was
Speaker 1: very happy about was the Causeway Coast. You know, we
Speaker 1: obviously hit up a lot of different restaurants and and things.
Speaker 1: What are your recks outside of golf for Northern Ireland.
Speaker 4: I think you've hit on a few of the activities already.
Speaker 4: I think you have to hit the more mountains.
Speaker 3: We did not.
Speaker 4: You were decrepit and from your marathon we went over there.
Speaker 4: We did not do the hike. You have to do that,
Speaker 4: have to serve, have to see the coastal towns of
Speaker 4: Port Rush and Port Stewart. I think like immersing yourself
Speaker 4: in the actual town, like there's there's stuff there. I
Speaker 4: think like sometimes when you go on these golf trips,
Speaker 4: you are just you're sort of beholden to the itinerary
Speaker 4: that is set for you by a resort, and you
Speaker 4: only eat at a resort, and you only eat at
Speaker 4: like it's the same burger and it's the same beer,
Speaker 4: and it's it's all coming from the same kitchen, and
Speaker 4: it's all coming from the same you know till and
Speaker 4: here there are actual towns to go immerse yourself in.
Speaker 4: And I found Port Stewart on return, I think it's
Speaker 4: just like a really really charming town. I think it's
Speaker 4: it's coffee and food. Seeing i'd probably put a tick
Speaker 4: above Port Rush. I don't know if that's going to
Speaker 4: bother some people. They're more more or less the same, right,
Speaker 4: I mean, let's not. I don't think there's any great rivalry.
Speaker 4: Maybe there is amongst the golf courses, but not amongst
Speaker 4: the towns that I saw. My favorite meal we had
Speaker 4: was this place of Michi restaurant. It was an Italian
Speaker 4: place and I was like, ah, you go to the
Speaker 4: northernmost part of Northern Ireland to get Italian. But it
Speaker 4: came like super super recommended from everyone, fancy folks, regulars, locals.
Speaker 4: And we had that during like at like ten pm
Speaker 4: on a before the open started. And that was a
Speaker 4: must too for me in terms of it's a flexible
Speaker 4: kind of menu. And it was like right on the
Speaker 4: water on the cliffs next to the old course Port Stewart,
Speaker 4: and that was a cool scene. And of course Lost
Speaker 4: and Found has become sort of our home away from home.
Speaker 4: This coffee shop on the other side of Port Stewart,
Speaker 4: Amichi is is between Port Rush, and Port Stewart, but
Speaker 4: this Lost and Found coffee shop, which we got to
Speaker 4: know the owner, Dave, lying us a little bit. We
Speaker 4: went back multiple times when I was there for the Open.
Speaker 4: We went there two or three times on our first trip,
Speaker 4: I think. And so those were some of like just
Speaker 4: the little bites of culture where you feel like you
Speaker 4: are not being shoveled everything that a certain golf resort
Speaker 4: has to offer.
Speaker 1: I think the other thing that the particular the Causeway
Speaker 1: Coast area has is they have a lot of like
Speaker 1: smaller golf options. Yeah, and we didn't visit these, but
Speaker 1: I've heard from enough people that I trust that like
Speaker 1: affordable and like quick rounds of golf are available at Bushfoot,
Speaker 1: which is right next to the Bush Mills Distillery.
Speaker 4: I'll say on that Shackleford, who you know we would
Speaker 4: consider a trusted source and friend played it multiple times
Speaker 4: when he was over the open and would like come
Speaker 4: in the next day just talking about how charmed he
Speaker 4: was playing bush Foot. It's a nine hole or multiple routings,
Speaker 4: you can make it eighteen, but it's nine holes on
Speaker 4: the river bush and Shaq was like just fired up
Speaker 4: with some like twilight post dinner rounds of bush Foot,
Speaker 4: but go ahead with.
Speaker 1: And these are really long days. Yeah, And I like,
Speaker 1: I think like one of the things, I don't know
Speaker 1: if this is me aging, but like as I you know,
Speaker 1: as I plan more golf trips, and you know, I
Speaker 1: obviously go on a ton of golf trips every year,
Speaker 1: I really like to build in time for different activities,
Speaker 1: time to be in the town, but also time to
Speaker 1: just like go show up at golf courses that aren't
Speaker 1: necessarily the famous ones. And I think when you're in
Speaker 1: that area, obviously the ones that you have to hit
Speaker 1: or try to have to hit are both courses at
Speaker 1: Port Rush and then Port Stewart, particularly the front nine
Speaker 1: is like extraordinary. And then you know, I think Castle
Speaker 1: Rock was really fun, but you know it might not
Speaker 1: be in the very like the top of the bucket.
Speaker 1: I think the we course is about as fun of
Speaker 1: a golf course as you can play. The bond at
Speaker 1: Castle Rock.
Speaker 4: I was reading back on that I didn't play that
Speaker 4: I was writing and you and Cameron went out for that,
Speaker 4: and Cameron's like, bring like a twelve brin a dozen
Speaker 4: golf balls. This is the most penal golf course. But
Speaker 4: it was an absolute blast. It was so fun. That
Speaker 4: ninth hole, or I mean the last.
Speaker 1: Hole there is like a ninety yard part three and
Speaker 1: it's really cool. It's like blind but like it's lost
Speaker 1: ball if you hit miss the green.
Speaker 4: But you guys both came up like god, that was
Speaker 4: fun and you played and I don't know what the
Speaker 4: ninety minutes last forty minutes, yeah, yeah, fifty minutes quick.
Speaker 4: I was trying to write an article and you were
Speaker 4: you were off before that.
Speaker 1: I think that's like the thing is like you have
Speaker 1: the you have bally Rag, which terryll Hatton was playing
Speaker 1: like the night before the Open Championship.
Speaker 4: Kind of situated up above on the cliffs like we
Speaker 4: talked about.
Speaker 1: I think it's like ten pounds. Yeah, it's like on
Speaker 1: the ocean.
Speaker 4: It's one of these things where the locals are like, ah,
Speaker 4: that's kind of a shit, like but they don't know
Speaker 4: how good they got it. Just to have it as
Speaker 4: a thing, as an option to play for forty minutes
Speaker 4: or whatever.
Speaker 1: It is the original Port Stewart course. I've always wanted
Speaker 1: to play, and you've got bush Foot, you've got the
Speaker 1: Bond Course, Like you have these like small golf options
Speaker 1: so doing a day where you play a morning round
Speaker 1: somewhere and then you just leave the afternoon open. You
Speaker 1: have all these options to go play more golf. You
Speaker 1: have the option to like hang out in town. You
Speaker 1: have the option to go get a nice lunch, late
Speaker 1: lunch and sit somewhere. I think that's like the charm
Speaker 1: of trips to the UK, And I think like people
Speaker 1: don't necessarily think about Northern Ireland in that vein, but
Speaker 1: I think it's absolutely an opportunity to do that.
Speaker 4: So one thing I struggled with the guide or not struggle,
Speaker 4: I confind the question of like, if you go to
Speaker 4: Northern Ireland and you don't play RCD or Royal Report
Speaker 4: Rush or somehow both, do you have to play both?
Speaker 4: If you go there to feel fulfilled or walk out
Speaker 4: of there considering it a success?
Speaker 1: You know, I think that's a good question. I would
Speaker 1: say that the proximity of them to Dublin is a no,
Speaker 1: because it's not far away. That's yeah.
Speaker 3: I think that's where I landed.
Speaker 1: Play one.
Speaker 4: I think if you go when you play neither, you're
Speaker 4: probably feeling a little unfulfilled. But I think you're gonna
Speaker 4: And I struggle with this like with everything I do,
Speaker 4: whether it's a golf trip or Disney World, it's like
Speaker 4: I'm so anxious while I'm there to do everything, but
Speaker 4: when I leave, it's like, God, that was a great time.
Speaker 4: And I think that would be the case if you
Speaker 4: don't see one of the two pillars. I think that's
Speaker 4: the case.
Speaker 1: I did. I agree. I would agree with that. I
Speaker 1: think you can you can do it without seeing it,
Speaker 1: and and I think like one of the things is
Speaker 1: like you can make this trip really affordable if you
Speaker 1: wanted to make an affordable fun golf trip, Northern Ireland
Speaker 1: is a place you could do it where you could
Speaker 1: do these kind of like more mom Pa golf courses.
Speaker 1: I now, like, do I think it's like the best
Speaker 1: trip in the world. No, But do you get to
Speaker 1: go experience links golf and culture and the culture there without,
Speaker 1: you know, without breaking the bank? Yes?
Speaker 4: Can I A let's play a little games. So we
Speaker 4: were there for the Open and we played Royal County
Speaker 4: down on our way out of town with a morn member,
Speaker 4: which meant we had to go late on Monday, like
Speaker 4: five o'clock, which was great. We had a day we
Speaker 4: needed to get out of port rush work. Are we
Speaker 4: down and get to Dublin by night time? So it
Speaker 4: was it worked out. It was like a five pm
Speaker 4: How much do you think the reputed number one golf
Speaker 4: course in the world, Royal County down? What was talking
Speaker 4: about mod pa and affordable?
Speaker 3: What do you think?
Speaker 4: What do you think it was? I don't even know
Speaker 4: if it's twenty thirty pounds, yeah, thirty pounds. It's the
Speaker 4: way North Barracus too.
Speaker 3: It was.
Speaker 4: I was with someone from Ireland who knows the whole scene.
Speaker 4: It was like incredulous even at that at that price,
Speaker 4: and yeah, so it's it is affordable. I would you know,
Speaker 4: having gone twice now and I think you can speak
Speaker 4: to this too.
Speaker 3: I don't.
Speaker 4: I don't know if it cuts into the cost a
Speaker 4: little bit. I do think going in a non tourist
Speaker 4: time or heaviest tourist time is a good idea, is
Speaker 4: a good thing to explore. When we got pretty fortunate
Speaker 4: with weather in March, but we got like real Port Rush,
Speaker 4: real culture, real Newcastle. This was like it wasn't just
Speaker 4: a bunch of Americans there And I'll say, like the
Speaker 4: open going to the Harbor Bar was a shit show
Speaker 4: and it's the Open.
Speaker 1: I get it.
Speaker 4: There's thousands of people in town. The guinness wasn't very good.
Speaker 4: It wasn't as good. There's a bunch of drunk idiots.
Speaker 1: But I'm not center around.
Speaker 4: Yeah, Bomber wasn't around. Like I'm not suggesting it's like
Speaker 4: that every July when there's not an open, but there's
Speaker 4: not the American tourist element in March. I don't know
Speaker 4: if you found that to be sort of more of
Speaker 4: an advantage disadvantage.
Speaker 3: I was.
Speaker 1: I've been working on another guide on Fife in St
Speaker 1: Andrews area, and obviously the first time I went there
Speaker 1: was the Open Championship, and then this spring i went
Speaker 1: and something that I think about like that I would
Speaker 1: recommend to anybody that's going to Saint Andrews And this
Speaker 1: will be probably a future podcast, but I would really
Speaker 1: recommend going when school's in session because there's like an
Speaker 1: added energy to that town when there's when the university
Speaker 1: is in and it's just I don't there's something about
Speaker 1: like college towns that I find like really like wonderful
Speaker 1: and versus like when I went Peak in the summer,
Speaker 1: it's just peak tourism and we went in April this
Speaker 1: year and April's the driest month in Scotland. But also
Speaker 1: it's like not when it's just jammed with visitors, it's
Speaker 1: a little bit slower, and I think that really lends itself.
Speaker 1: It's easier to get into the restaurants you want, it's
Speaker 1: you interact with more locals, which to me is what
Speaker 1: I want. In particular, when we went to Northern Ireland,
Speaker 1: all the courses hadn't opened their visitor tea times yet,
Speaker 1: so we were literally, you know, for for better or worse,
Speaker 1: we were picked out like store thumbs by locals, so
Speaker 1: they knew they were all Everybody was asking us what
Speaker 1: the hell we were doing there because they knew that
Speaker 1: this was not a tourist time, but it was you know,
Speaker 1: there's I think, like the generation, the travel generation right now,
Speaker 1: like the travel trends, people are seeking out authenticity and
Speaker 1: authentic experiences and genuine experience, unique experiences, and I think
Speaker 1: when you go to these places when they are a
Speaker 1: little less busy, it lends itself to a little bit
Speaker 1: more of culture. And I think like one of the
Speaker 1: like super underraty things is like when you have a
Speaker 1: little bit less daylight, you're less inclined to play as
Speaker 1: much golf, and that also lends itself to you feeling
Speaker 1: better and also experiencing more things outside the.
Speaker 3: Golf, more discovery.
Speaker 1: Yeah we did that.
Speaker 4: I mean we played golf till ten pm at Port
Speaker 4: Stewart and it's like all right, now we got to
Speaker 4: find dinner, right and we were lucky to find our
Speaker 4: way to Michi. I will say, like Port Stewart, you
Speaker 4: probably need to add that front nine. It's for the
Speaker 4: American it's Lamaanya was like, oh, this is the greatest
Speaker 4: golf course I've ever seen in my world, ever seen
Speaker 4: in the world. He's walking off, like, you know, I
Speaker 4: think this is better than narcd Like it makes an
Speaker 4: impression from the dunes. It's worth going just for the
Speaker 4: impression it will leave you with. But yeah, we had that,
Speaker 4: and and I don't know, I think going to Northern Ireland,
Speaker 4: I have Irish ancestry. I was keenly aware of the troubles,
Speaker 4: keenly aware of like what that like, is this place
Speaker 4: like in turmoil?
Speaker 3: Is it dangerous?
Speaker 4: And all these things, and that that was sort of
Speaker 4: its identity right for a long time, we Joseph had
Speaker 4: no sense of that had no idea that like much
Speaker 4: of that background. I think some of us when on
Speaker 4: our first trip weren't to weren't.
Speaker 1: Aware of that background.
Speaker 4: And I think you go now and you know it's
Speaker 4: there's a matter of fact details that you're in a
Speaker 4: different country, right, there's the currency, there's a license place,
Speaker 4: there's all that stuff. But you know, there's no sense
Speaker 4: of turmoil or anything like that. You see it right away.
Speaker 4: There's different flags flying all over the place. There may be,
Speaker 4: you know, an undercurrent of tension. I think, like, you know,
Speaker 4: they know who's who and what's what if you're a local,
Speaker 4: But I didn't really sense at this point it's part
Speaker 4: of their history of recent history. But it wasn't anything
Speaker 4: that was imposing at all on the trip, and it
Speaker 4: feels much more open to that kind of tourists tourist trip.
Speaker 1: I would. I would recommend anybody that goes this was
Speaker 1: kind of on my list. Anybody that goes to Northern
Speaker 1: Ireland read, especially Americans, read Patrick Radd and Keith rad
Speaker 1: and Keith's book Say Nothing So honestly like one of
Speaker 1: the best books I've ever read, and it's all about
Speaker 1: the troubles. He does like an incredible job of kind
Speaker 1: of weaving these different kind of stories together. But it
Speaker 1: I was reading it while we were there, and it
Speaker 1: was a you know, I was having trouble sleeping because
Speaker 1: I couldn't put the book down. And I think like
Speaker 1: just in general, like when we talk about non golf
Speaker 1: things like one of the things that I would like
Speaker 1: to go back there and a lot of like the
Speaker 1: black taxi tours and explore that kind of history. Uh more. Uh,
Speaker 1: it was obviously like a very difficult time for that
Speaker 1: that area, but you know in terms of of history,
Speaker 1: and it's a it's a it's a fascinating kind of
Speaker 1: moment and in a troubling way obviously with what was
Speaker 1: going on, but you know, the history of of that is,
Speaker 1: you know, just something that after reading that book, I
Speaker 1: I would like to and talking to locals, I think
Speaker 1: like that's another part of of the local aspect of
Speaker 1: being there and talking just interfacing with with people from
Speaker 1: the area, is you just learned so much about about
Speaker 1: that time, and uh, it's definitely part of their history
Speaker 1: and it's it's one of the big reasons why Port
Speaker 1: Rush wasn't in the Rota for a number of years.
Speaker 1: And and why Northern Ireland it was not considered a
Speaker 1: golf destination until you know, the recent coupled last decades
Speaker 1: is is this is a golf destination that I think
Speaker 1: is emerging and and becoming more and more popularized as
Speaker 1: you know, more time passes from from the trouble. So
Speaker 1: it's impossible to talk about the area without you know,
Speaker 1: understanding that history. And I think Belfast, like we stayed
Speaker 1: in Belfast our last night, I was coming down with
Speaker 1: some sort of plague, but we still went out. It
Speaker 1: was the plague hit really when I was on the
Speaker 1: on the plane home, which was which was a disaster
Speaker 1: in itself, but the I think Belfast was a place
Speaker 1: that I would have liked to spend some time too.
Speaker 1: And that's you know, another option of where you center
Speaker 1: your you know, some of your stay is Belfast, where
Speaker 1: there's great restaurants, an emerging night life scene and some
Speaker 1: really nice hotels.
Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, Belfast. We visited Hollywood, which I thought was
Speaker 4: cool experience to see Rory and Rory's obviously not even
Speaker 4: more of a prominent figure having won the Grand Slam.
Speaker 4: I thought that was cool. I don't know if anybody,
Speaker 4: maybe if you're arrange it in advance. I don't know
Speaker 4: if you can just be like pulling up like it's
Speaker 4: a museum. It's still a golf club. But that was
Speaker 4: cool on the outskirts.
Speaker 1: I feel like you probably could be completely.
Speaker 4: Honest maybe, Belfast, I feel like you could go have
Speaker 4: lunch there. You were getting sick, Belfast. I you know,
Speaker 4: we kind of we stopped on our way in the
Speaker 4: impression I get is that it's it's still trying to
Speaker 4: figure its way up and it's a little drab. And
Speaker 4: you hear that from people down south, who you know,
Speaker 4: make it seem like you're going to Siberia and it's not.
Speaker 4: There's good food, there's gas stations, there's life, there's self service,
Speaker 4: all these things. But people down south did recommend dairy,
Speaker 4: like people like fancy folks. We got to know a
Speaker 4: little bit who might have some discerning tastes, said Darry.
Speaker 4: Is a cool time and a cool weekend up north,
Speaker 4: and we were about another what is it like another
Speaker 4: thirty forty five minutes past Castle Rock and Will Knights
Speaker 4: went there later at a subsequent time, and it has
Speaker 4: dairy journals and guides up for that that will include
Speaker 4: in our guide, which is mostly food, drink, golf in
Speaker 4: Port Rush, Portstewart and Newcastle. But Dairy came highly recommended
Speaker 4: from people down south, with some discerning taste as a cool,
Speaker 4: cool place to go with a good night life. And
Speaker 4: I think Belfast if you are interested in this sort
Speaker 4: of massive historical struggle in recent history, which is an
Speaker 4: interesting it's not enjoyable, it's tragic, but it's an interesting
Speaker 4: history to study it on the list, Belfast is worth
Speaker 4: kind of stopping on your way through or for multiple
Speaker 4: nights going from Port Rush to Newcastle or vice versa.
Speaker 1: So all right, well you got anything else, No, I'd
Speaker 1: say go read. It's hard. This is society today. Not
Speaker 1: a lot of people read. But that's probably the best
Speaker 1: place to convey a lot of information.
Speaker 4: It's bite sized nuggets too. I'm not gonna hit it
Speaker 4: with the wall of text. You can read quickly if
Speaker 4: you want.
Speaker 1: Put any stay aways there in there.
Speaker 3: I you know the pizza place.
Speaker 4: In Newcastle that everybody which you know, I recognize that
Speaker 4: everybody told us to go there, like the locals who
Speaker 4: know the scene told us to go there. Maybe we're
Speaker 4: just the American outliers. But I mentioned that it was
Speaker 4: just crowded.
Speaker 1: Maybe I love I feel like sometimes telling people not
Speaker 1: to go places is more powerful than telling people where
Speaker 1: to go. Yeah, that is true.
Speaker 4: Just want to be cognizant of maybe the mob pa
Speaker 4: that might be on the other end of such a thing.
Speaker 1: But yes, like Ziggy's and Saint Andrew's, that's a stayaway
Speaker 1: from me. I tell everybody that goes do not go
Speaker 1: to Ziggy's.
Speaker 4: All right, the ribs, What did you think? Did you
Speaker 4: find anything that was super overrated or not that great?
Speaker 4: I mean, look, you're playing golf and looking to fill up.
Speaker 4: There's stuff that I've ranked higher than others, right, And
Speaker 4: you know, the Remore has such a stranglehold on Port Rush.
Speaker 4: They like own the whole all the restaurant group, like
Speaker 4: Harbor Bar, Harbor Bistro, the Italian Pizza Place, the Remore
Speaker 4: Wine Bar. They own like the entire thing. And I'm
Speaker 4: just fresh off the open where it was like that
Speaker 4: was the only place you get any table. So I
Speaker 4: think that could kind of constrict variety in a way.
Speaker 4: I enjoyed going to the Harbor Bistro, which is the
Speaker 4: food place attached to the Harbor Bar, But I just
Speaker 4: I thought it felt like sort of a monopoly on
Speaker 4: the whole town.
Speaker 1: Honest earnest recommendation, gas station sausage rolls on the way
Speaker 1: into Port Rush. There's a gas station from town a
Speaker 1: couple of times. Yeah, pretty good, ernest opinion. Pretty good.
Speaker 1: You know, it's kind of like Texas where the gas
Speaker 1: station food isn't isn't vile. You know, Texas, you stop
Speaker 1: at a gas station, get some barbecue. That's that's fine. And uh,
Speaker 1: Northern Ireland stopping at that in Port Rush stopping at
Speaker 1: that gas station on the way into Port Rush and
Speaker 1: getting a sausage roll, big line of people. Good spot.
Speaker 3: Yeah, that was a good spot.
Speaker 4: We went in there multiple times after working at Port
Speaker 4: Rush late we stopped there. The only other thing is
Speaker 4: like staying feels like Airbnb is the way to go
Speaker 4: on both sides, Port Rush, Newcastle, Port Stewart, or or
Speaker 4: a vacation rental service Newcastle.
Speaker 1: Obviously you got the Marine in Lawn the sleeve donner,
Speaker 1: which comes with some access to RCD, but you know
Speaker 1: you're paying through the nose on that.
Speaker 4: So it's a taste of American private equity in Northern
Speaker 4: Ireland is what it is.
Speaker 1: And that's fine.
Speaker 4: It's still the authentic build like it's the same spot
Speaker 4: where it's always been. We had a lunch in there
Speaker 4: on the way to the golf course last time through.
Speaker 4: It's cool, sat in some high leather, high back leather
Speaker 4: chairs and had a good lunch.
Speaker 1: But you brought up American private equity. I will say
Speaker 1: one of the charming aspects of Northern Ireland because of
Speaker 1: its recent you know history, is that it's had less
Speaker 1: time to have American private equity ruined places. There is
Speaker 1: a raw authenticity to the area because of the you know,
Speaker 1: it was not a place that people wanted to dump
Speaker 1: money for a number of years.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean they're building and Galgoram is building the
Speaker 4: first new course in some decades, like decades, maybe fifty
Speaker 4: a long time, probably another several miles west of Castle Rock,
Speaker 4: which is like this big development. So they're seeing the
Speaker 4: demand for tea times just I think that element is coming,
Speaker 4: is what I say.
Speaker 1: It is.
Speaker 4: So so we'll say, sure sleeve.
Speaker 1: Don If America is great at one thing, it's it's
Speaker 1: putting money into far flung destinations and ruining them.
Speaker 4: So but it's awesome. It's a fabulous spot right now.
Speaker 4: I think it will maintain it's some of its authenticity
Speaker 4: and independence. Highly recommend a trip there. We think it's
Speaker 4: within reach. We of course go into all the golf
Speaker 4: courses too, whether it's you know what we saw walk
Speaker 4: in the Valley course to Dunloose RCD.
Speaker 1: We have those in depth real quick. And that one
Speaker 1: other thing that we haven't hit on is our glasses.
Speaker 1: Not my favorite golf course in my opinion, stunning some
Speaker 1: stunning we used, so it's like pretty crazy, not really.
Speaker 1: I would not characterize this as a well designed golf course,
Speaker 1: but it's it's visually stunning. And the other thing I
Speaker 1: will would hit on is that the town is a
Speaker 1: really cool place to stop and have a have a
Speaker 1: guinnocent Yeah.
Speaker 3: The arms the arms bar yeah.
Speaker 1: By by Shane Lowry's former caddy now now TikTok's. It's
Speaker 1: a favorite influencer. Min Lulie's caddy, Beou Martin.
Speaker 3: He's staking it.
Speaker 1: Yeah. I see him and all of his kids in there.
Speaker 1: If you if you're there at the right time and
Speaker 1: just you know, rubbishing around.
Speaker 4: I think our glasses worth the whatever. It was thirty
Speaker 4: five forty minute detour from Newcastle, Like if you're up there,
Speaker 4: you know, hit the town, get over there, you want
Speaker 4: to play. It's it's stunning. It's different, different kind of cliffs, holes,
Speaker 4: seaside holes inland hills. Elevation changed a little different, different
Speaker 4: taste for sure.
Speaker 1: Yeah, so it could be if you get it on
Speaker 1: a windy day, it'd be about as hard as it
Speaker 1: could cat that day. We however, so the first hole there,
Speaker 1: it's amazing. Get tea off from the back of a
Speaker 1: castle over at Bay and the day we were playing,
Speaker 1: it's just blown like thirty five miles an hour and
Speaker 1: it was about forty degrees out.
Speaker 4: It's one of those couldn't hear the person next to
Speaker 4: you unless I didn't.
Speaker 1: Want to get out of the van. That day, it
Speaker 1: was like had some flashbacks to some junior golf rounds
Speaker 1: in like early spring or late fall where you're just
Speaker 1: like you're you're sitting in your carts early in the
Speaker 1: morning and you just don't want to get out because
Speaker 1: you know how cold and windy it is. Yeah, but
Speaker 1: we did it. It was good.
Speaker 4: We got we got through those first few holes when
Speaker 4: it was at its worst. So good, good experience. Yeah,
Speaker 4: it's a great trip, great trip for obviously for many Americas,
Speaker 4: and you have those two pillars that draw people there,
Speaker 4: but I think there's just a lot more once you
Speaker 4: take it, so hopefully the guide hits on some of that.
Speaker 1: All right, thanks for joining, Thanks for talking Northern Ireland.
Speaker 1: People can read your profile on the website. All right,
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Speaker 1: dot com. All right, let's get to will Knights. Who's
Speaker 1: going to talk to us about the Sand Valley area.
Speaker 1: I guess it's not really an area. Who's going to
Speaker 1: talk to us about Sand Valley? William, Welcome on, you
Speaker 1: are coming to us from the state of Wisconsin to
Speaker 1: talk about I think what's become Wisconsin's premier golf destination,
Speaker 1: Sand Valley. You wrote up our Sand Valley Guide. I've
Speaker 1: got a soft spot a little story time for Sand Valley.
Speaker 1: When I started this business, it was late twenty fifteen,
Speaker 1: and then in twenty sixteen I started to go to
Speaker 1: golf courses to write about golf courses. And one of
Speaker 1: my probably like really my first real golf trip with
Speaker 1: fried Egg. The first like golf course I wrote about
Speaker 1: was was Sweeten's Cove, but I visited there while I
Speaker 1: was at a wedding, you know, it wasn't like a
Speaker 1: real golf trip. The first real golf trip that I
Speaker 1: went on was with a couple buddies, you know, under
Speaker 1: the guise of Friday, was to Wisconsin and we played
Speaker 1: University Ridge in the morning, and then we drove to
Speaker 1: Sand Valley to do the Preview Loop, which at the
Speaker 1: time I think was eleven holes of golf, maybe twelve
Speaker 1: holes of golf, and they were operating out of a trailer.
Speaker 1: And so this was twenty sixteen, summer of twenty sixteen.
Speaker 1: Now we fast forward nine years and the resort I
Speaker 1: just like every time I go back, I'm amazed at
Speaker 1: how much growth, how much bigger it is, And it's
Speaker 1: just a great memory of for me when the business,
Speaker 1: our business was in the nacient days and their business
Speaker 1: was in the nascient days, and it's just always I
Speaker 1: always reminisce, And it's been amazing to watch that resort.
Speaker 1: And obviously you're a Midwestern Midwesterner at heart, even though
Speaker 1: you live on the East coast now, like, it's been
Speaker 1: just amazing to watch that kind of resort grow and
Speaker 1: populate and become super popular with all the masses in
Speaker 1: the Midwest.
Speaker 2: It's funny to say that because I think Sand Valley
Speaker 2: was actually the first trip that I ever took under
Speaker 2: the guys of Frida Egg as well. It was like
Speaker 2: very early when I started writing for you, like on
Speaker 2: the side of my day job, and I reached out
Speaker 2: to you. I was like, Hey, is this Sand Valley
Speaker 2: place like worth checking out? This was like before I
Speaker 2: knew anything about golf courses or golf travel, and you
Speaker 2: helped me get me set up with a buddy, and
Speaker 2: so I think we went up there the week that
Speaker 2: Mammoth Dunes opened, and so it's been very similar to you.
Speaker 2: I have a very early memory of what that resort
Speaker 2: looked like. And now when my first trip, the main
Speaker 2: lodge was built and like Craig's Porch was established. But yeah,
Speaker 2: it's been kind of crazy that in the last eight
Speaker 2: years it's gone from a very immature operation to one
Speaker 2: of the most bustling places in the Midwest. And the
Speaker 2: fact that just about everyone from around the country now
Speaker 2: wants to come to Wisconsin to see this resort is
Speaker 2: pretty amazing.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's it's the last place you would expect these
Speaker 1: massive sand dunes. And obviously Craig Haltam, that's why it's
Speaker 1: called Craig's Porch, had found this land and then got
Speaker 1: the Kaisers involved with it, and it's Michael and Chris
Speaker 1: Kaiser's operation, and they've done an incredible job of growing
Speaker 1: it and delivering a world class golf experience, which all
Speaker 1: stems from their belief of kind of presenting golf as
Speaker 1: you know, in its truest form, and you know, using
Speaker 1: extraordinary sand dunes and credible playing conditions. I think, like
Speaker 1: when I think about Sand Valley, they've got some really
Speaker 1: great golf courses, but all the golf courses are amplified
Speaker 1: by the incredible turf operation they have where they have
Speaker 1: some of the best playing conditions in the world, and
Speaker 1: particularly in America. The turf is just so firm and
Speaker 1: fast that it amplifies all the architecture that they have there.
Speaker 1: And that's kind of one of the things that always
Speaker 1: sticks with me is the is the is just the
Speaker 1: turf there, and it's a world class surface.
Speaker 2: The sound that the ball makes when it hits it's
Speaker 2: really every golf course out there, but especially like the
Speaker 2: newer ones when you play lead over Sedge Valley or
Speaker 2: even Sandbox, because you're so close on some of those shots.
Speaker 2: The trampoline nature of that stud is. I mean, there
Speaker 2: is not another place in the Midwest that I've heard that.
Speaker 2: And every time you return, like you play every golf course,
Speaker 2: it is as firm and fast as it was the
Speaker 2: last time you were there. I think what a lot
Speaker 2: of people, especially people who are like a nervous looking
Speaker 2: at the weather, like if there's rain in the forecast,
Speaker 2: if it rains overnight, like you're not going to know
Speaker 2: that when you show up the next morning. It just
Speaker 2: absorbs it so well and they have their their maintenance
Speaker 2: practices to your point are incredible. Every single golf course
Speaker 2: is at its highest level all year round when they're open,
Speaker 2: and yeah, like getting to play those firm conditions and
Speaker 2: experience that sound is something that you can't find many
Speaker 2: places around to the Midwest.
Speaker 1: So the golf there has expanded. The Sand Valley Course
Speaker 1: is the original course. I think this is this will
Speaker 1: be a little bit different than the previous two conversations
Speaker 1: on this podcast, where you have like a surrounding town
Speaker 1: and stuff. You know, it's pretty remote. You can venture out,
Speaker 1: you know, if you're a brave soul, I would recommend
Speaker 1: trying to find a supper club. That's kind of a
Speaker 1: Wisconsin tradition. If you wanted to go off site for
Speaker 1: a meal, find a local supper club. That's a time
Speaker 1: honored Wisconsin tradition that is worthwhile pursuit. But I would
Speaker 1: say that most people are just going to stay on
Speaker 1: site and there are dining options there. Let's just talk
Speaker 1: about the golf real quick. You have the Sand Valley Course,
Speaker 1: which is the original core Crunchhalk course, that was the
Speaker 1: first golf course that was built there. Then they built
Speaker 1: David McClay kids Mammoth Dunes. This is the most popular
Speaker 1: golf course on the property. It enthralls people with low
Speaker 1: scoring opportunities, and you know, it's a big course. There's
Speaker 1: dramatic dunes. It's a very well routed golf course because
Speaker 1: it gets through some really dramatic pieces of the property.
Speaker 1: And I would say, you know, it probably is the
Speaker 1: course that takes the longest to play, just because you
Speaker 1: traverse so much property on it. The third course that
Speaker 1: was built was Sandbox, a seventeen hole part three course
Speaker 1: by Core and Crenshaw. Then they have the Lido and
Speaker 1: Sedge Valley. Those are two of the newer options. The
Speaker 1: Lido is a private club. You can get access to
Speaker 1: it during the week in certain t time blocks, but
Speaker 1: the access is limited, so you're not guaranteed it if
Speaker 1: you're staying at the resort, but you have to stay
Speaker 1: at the resort in order to get access, or you
Speaker 1: need access through a member. And then the final in
Speaker 1: the Sedge Valley is obviously a Tom dok. It's a
Speaker 1: sub seventy pars. We've had so many discussions with Tom
Speaker 1: about this golf course on this podcast, but it's a
Speaker 1: really fun golf course, really neat piece of land. And
Speaker 1: then the newest design is the Comments, which was a
Speaker 1: collaboration with Michael Kaiser and Jim Craig, a longtime Core
Speaker 1: and Crenshaw associate. It is another kind of the idea
Speaker 1: of fast golf round would come to mind. And I
Speaker 1: think what's neat about these these golf courses is they
Speaker 1: have a lot of like quicker afternoon options or morning options.
Speaker 1: One of the things I like is they have three
Speaker 1: really big golf courses in Lido, Sand Valley and Mammoth Dunes,
Speaker 1: but they also have three golf courses that can be
Speaker 1: played in much shorter periods of time and sedg if
Speaker 1: you're in the morning, particular on Sedge in the afternoon,
Speaker 1: it kind of takes the same amount of time. Commons
Speaker 1: and the Sandbox, you run all of our events and
Speaker 1: we have, you know, had an annual event every year
Speaker 1: at sand Valley. How have you been going about like
Speaker 1: laying out itineraries there?
Speaker 2: So I think with any golfers already kind of there's
Speaker 2: kind of a learning experience that goes with these and
Speaker 2: as they add new courses, like my preference for how
Speaker 2: we set those up has changed, and it will change
Speaker 2: even further with the addition of the Commons starting. I
Speaker 2: think they're going to allow some previewplay this fall and
Speaker 2: then really get going in twenty twenty six. But the
Speaker 2: idea that I am starting to tell people and what
Speaker 2: I lay down in the guide is as you as
Speaker 2: you mentioned like the three big courses, like if you
Speaker 2: want to take on two of those in one day,
Speaker 2: like have a it, that is your prerogative. You're welcome
Speaker 2: to do that, but you're going to be like extremely tired.
Speaker 2: So if you do Mammoth Dunes, I would say you
Speaker 2: can definitely do that and paired with another golf course,
Speaker 2: but just know that this is your big day of golf.
Speaker 1: An important note, you know versus like Bandon, Bandon's never
Speaker 1: getting above seventy degrees Scotland. Similar like the temper, the
Speaker 1: temperate climate, one of the things to be prepared for
Speaker 1: is this Midwest summer can be very hot and humid,
Speaker 1: and that's it's taxing. You played numerous USA I'm thirty
Speaker 1: six hull qualifiers in your childhood or in those days
Speaker 1: could be really taxing in thirty six holes. That Sand
Speaker 1: Valley can be taxing if you play both the big courses.
Speaker 2: Definitely, and like it's not impossible by any means. But
Speaker 2: I think what I would tell people is, if you're
Speaker 2: going to play two of Mammoth, Sand Valley, and Liedo
Speaker 2: in the same day, just like just understand what you're
Speaker 2: getting into, and you kind of have to plan it
Speaker 2: around Lido if you're playing that round. But what I
Speaker 2: would say is, if you're playing Mammoth and Sand Valley
Speaker 2: the same day, I would do Mammoth in the afternoon
Speaker 2: when you're like on the more tired side because you
Speaker 2: have that more forgiving off the t space and it's
Speaker 2: like you're probably still going to be able to score. Okay,
Speaker 2: Although we did have someone at our event this year
Speaker 2: he shot sixty five in the afternoon on sam Valley
Speaker 2: after playing Mammoth in the morning, so he shot eight
Speaker 2: shots better on Sand Valley, but it was his career
Speaker 2: low round. So in general, when I'm scheduling a trip
Speaker 2: to Sand Valley, I think I'm trying to avoid doing
Speaker 2: two of those three on the same day if possible,
Speaker 2: But at the same time, you kind of have to
Speaker 2: work around what Leado tea times you have. I think
Speaker 2: moving forward with the three kind of different options you
Speaker 2: have with Sedge Valley, the commons and sandbox. You kind
Speaker 2: of have the option to do like an alternative day
Speaker 2: where you play all three of those in once and
Speaker 2: you wouldn't ever be tired at the end of that.
Speaker 2: It would be three like very distinct unique kinds of golf,
Speaker 2: and I think it would be a super fun day,
Speaker 2: like something that you can't really experience many places in America.
Speaker 2: So that's something to consider. But I think in general,
Speaker 2: if you're pairing a mammoth with a sedge or a
Speaker 2: mammoth with a sandbox, you're going to have two or
Speaker 2: three of those days and you're going to get out
Speaker 2: of there like feeling pretty good. At Like at Bandon,
Speaker 2: it's such a remote destination that you kind of know
Speaker 2: that your legs are going to be tired. You're playing
Speaker 2: thirty six every day. There's not really an easy walk
Speaker 2: out there. Branch is a little bit easier.
Speaker 1: Than the other sportier, but it could be a little
Speaker 1: The elements can wear you out out there because you're
Speaker 1: just like it should be just exposed.
Speaker 2: I think the only yeah, and the only element that
Speaker 2: you're gonna get. And you kind of mentioned the humidity
Speaker 2: in Wisconsin like can get you and if you're like
Speaker 2: playing Lido in your orst Mammoth really, like if you're
Speaker 2: in the sand all day and you're trudging through that, like, yeah,
Speaker 2: your legs are gonna get a little tired. But I
Speaker 2: think those are the only things that I would really
Speaker 2: consider when trying to pair thirty six holes out there.
Speaker 1: I think a lot of people go up there and
Speaker 1: they have time for a second golf course. This is
Speaker 1: a common question with bandon trips too, What's what's the
Speaker 1: golf course that you play if you could, if you
Speaker 1: were up there and we'll take Lido out of this,
Speaker 1: because it's unlikely you're gonna play Lido twice. I would say,
Speaker 1: if you have the chance to play Lido twice, that's
Speaker 1: gonna be the one that you're gonna learn. Is gonna
Speaker 1: be the most revealing if you get to play it
Speaker 1: a second time. But if if we take Leedo out
Speaker 1: of it, of those, which of those golf courses would
Speaker 1: you play a second time?
Speaker 2: I think right now I would lean Sedge because it
Speaker 2: is so different when you're on opposite sides of the fairway.
Speaker 2: Not that Mammoth and Sand Valley aren't, but I think
Speaker 2: the architecture at Sedge does reveal itself in multiple rounds
Speaker 2: of golf, and you can play different teas out at Sedge.
Speaker 2: It's not a very long golf course, but if you
Speaker 2: can you can move forward and move back. There's kind
Speaker 2: of some hidden tea boxes out there if you want
Speaker 2: to really start poking around. So I think that's a
Speaker 2: golf course where, especially if the wind changes in the afternoon,
Speaker 2: you could really get some different stuff out there. I
Speaker 2: don't know that I would play it. I guess we're
Speaker 2: probably not talking about playing it twice in the same day.
Speaker 2: But if the pins change out there and you play
Speaker 2: it back to back days, you're going to see a
Speaker 2: completely different golf course. And then if that's not your
Speaker 2: cup of tea and you want to play one of
Speaker 2: the other two, like, I wouldn't blame you by any means.
Speaker 2: I think it just kind of depends on what you're
Speaker 2: looking for. If you want to like just go make
Speaker 2: a bunch of birdies and have fun with your buddies,
Speaker 2: then like go play Mammoth Dunes twice. But if you're
Speaker 2: looking for more of a championship test, I would definitely
Speaker 2: do more of a look at Sand Valley or Sedge
Speaker 2: for that second round.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I you know, I think one of the things
Speaker 1: that Sedge has and why I'd probably pick it. I
Speaker 1: do really like the Sand Valley course a lot, and
Speaker 1: I think it kind of gets slept on a little
Speaker 1: because it's just the first one, and you know, Mammoth
Speaker 1: Was is such a commercial hit. I think one of
Speaker 1: the things I appreciate about Sand about Sedge is I think,
Speaker 1: like the strategy sense like people love to like, you know,
Speaker 1: I would say that I romanticize strategy, So I'm saying
Speaker 1: myself when I say this and others strategy, you know,
Speaker 1: you have that like lines of charm, like right and
Speaker 1: left side. I think like where Sedge is right pretty
Speaker 1: fascinating is there's a lot of distance strategy in sense
Speaker 1: of do I push up near the green because there
Speaker 1: are a lot of shorter par force. Do I push
Speaker 1: up near the green or do I lay back? And
Speaker 1: I think that's what makes it. You know, like you
Speaker 1: can play a hole and you can push it up
Speaker 1: near the green and you can be like, oh, I
Speaker 1: do not want to be here, and then you want
Speaker 1: to play it a second time because it's like I'm
Speaker 1: gonna hit three iron off this tee and that golf
Speaker 1: course has a lot of variability and how you can
Speaker 1: play the holes from a strategic sense of of club
Speaker 1: selection off the tee. I'm not talking about lines, but
Speaker 1: club selection off the tee. So I think that is
Speaker 1: that's probably the course that I would play a second
Speaker 1: second time if I uh, it's probably the course. Like
Speaker 1: you know, I think they are like these like there's
Speaker 1: a lot of differences in golf courses. And I've said
Speaker 1: this a lot on this podcast, Like there are like
Speaker 1: dramatic like golf courses that you you know, if you
Speaker 1: had one course, one round left in your life, you
Speaker 1: go play this golf course. But then there are also
Speaker 1: like the you know, golf courses that you'd like to
Speaker 1: play over and over and again. And I think Sedge
Speaker 1: falls into that bucket, like it would be a delightful
Speaker 1: place to play every day of your life.
Speaker 2: I think the other fun part about Sedge, especially you
Speaker 2: don't have to be a good player, but like because
Speaker 2: you look at the scorecard and you see fifty eight
Speaker 2: hundred or fifty seven hundred and par sixty eight, like
Speaker 2: you think you're going to put like a low number
Speaker 2: up there, and the most of the time that's not
Speaker 2: going to happen. It's going to sneak up and bite you,
Speaker 2: and you're going to get towards the end of the
Speaker 2: round and you write down whatever your score is, or
Speaker 2: you're going to play a match and you're going to
Speaker 2: say like, like I really just want to give that
Speaker 2: another try. There's shots out there that I can do
Speaker 2: better this time, Or I would love to play different
Speaker 2: match against somebody from a like they pulled off the shot,
Speaker 2: I want to try to pull that off now. There
Speaker 2: is there's also like the walk element to it. I
Speaker 2: think they did a really good job with the environment.
Speaker 2: When you're out at Sedge Valley, just walking through the
Speaker 2: section of four or five, six, seven is so compact
Speaker 2: and tight and it's just a really neat kind of hillside,
Speaker 2: and then you get out into the expanse of nine, ten, eleven, twelve, thirteen,
Speaker 2: and each of those different sections is such a unique
Speaker 2: experience and kind of feels very different than the rest
Speaker 2: of the resort and it is a really cool place
Speaker 2: to go back to multiple times.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, I think you hit the nail on the
Speaker 1: head there. Let's talk a little bit about about food
Speaker 1: dining options there. They have obviously the Mammoth Bar. They
Speaker 1: have Aldos, which is like a kind of their high
Speaker 1: end restaurant. They have the New Gallery, which is a
Speaker 1: you know, it's like an Italian restaurant. It's it's hoppened.
Speaker 1: It's in the Tennis Center. And then they have Craig's Porch,
Speaker 1: which is up at the top that's right at the
Speaker 1: first tea of the original sand Valley course. What are
Speaker 1: your what are your favorite places to eat and drink there?
Speaker 2: I think you Also we also got Bill's Barbecue over
Speaker 2: by the sandbox, so they've done a really good job.
Speaker 1: I think, as you haven't ever had Bills barbecue, this
Speaker 1: is oh well, this might be the one place I
Speaker 1: haven't eaten there.
Speaker 2: There you go, so, yeah, has just sandwiches.
Speaker 1: It's very simple. If you're over there, you can get
Speaker 1: just a sandwich. It's good though, Yeah, you know for sure.
Speaker 2: Yeah, they got a little little bar. I think for
Speaker 2: my what I put in the guide was my recommendations
Speaker 2: for breakfast and lunch are to kind of save your
Speaker 2: pennies and go to Craig's Porch or have breakfast sandwiches
Speaker 2: at the golf courses. Because you can go out to
Speaker 2: Craig's porch and get tacos for a dollar, or you
Speaker 2: can be on Sedge Valley and when you're I mean
Speaker 2: it's kind of an inopportune time, but they're halfway house
Speaker 2: is right by twelve Tea and they have these hand pies.
Speaker 2: I think they're called salcitas. I might might be butchering that,
Speaker 2: but they're effectively like a really large amponada and they're
Speaker 2: also a dollar. You can get breakfast sandwiches at Craig'sport
Speaker 2: for three bucks, so if you want to.
Speaker 1: I think one of the one of the best things
Speaker 1: to do when you're there, and this is someone that
Speaker 1: I think like one summer I might have been up
Speaker 1: there like eight or nine times. One of the best
Speaker 1: things you can do early in the morning is just
Speaker 1: wake up, walk up to Craig's porch, sit down and
Speaker 1: enjoy breakfast sandwich while the sun's coming up.
Speaker 2: It's so peaceful up there and you can kind of
Speaker 2: just watch people. You go off one and just like
Speaker 2: go down that hill and it's such a really nice
Speaker 2: view of just like golfers walking out into the expanse.
Speaker 2: It's really neat and the other so other food and
Speaker 2: beverage notes would be also at Craig's Porch, like ice
Speaker 2: cream sandwiches up there, you can kind of get care
Speaker 2: away pretty easily. And then at so at Bill's Barbecue,
Speaker 2: it's a really cool spot because you're overlooking the Ninth
Speaker 2: Hole on Sandbox, which is basically the putting hole, and
Speaker 2: there's all so much ground action that's it's basically dinner
Speaker 2: and a show over there. They have this massive walking
Speaker 2: taco which they put in like a free Doo's bag.
Speaker 2: It's it's not like the walking taco you had at
Speaker 2: Little League.
Speaker 1: It's like had side.
Speaker 2: So I mean it's terrific, so really good spot. And
Speaker 2: then I think the the Aldos and the Gallery are
Speaker 2: interesting because they are like the Gallery seems like super
Speaker 2: imposing because it's this big tennis building, but then you
Speaker 2: go in there and they have like family style pastas
Speaker 2: and pizzas and it's really inviting and just this big
Speaker 2: kind of food hall. And they do a really good
Speaker 2: job with the drinks that are offered in there, and
Speaker 2: if you're if you're looking at the wine lists, they
Speaker 2: have different wine lists between the restaurants. So the one
Speaker 2: of the Gallery is like very focus on Italian lines
Speaker 2: because they're paring it with pastas and pizzas, and then
Speaker 2: you go over to all those and it's kind of
Speaker 2: more paired with the meats and poultry that they got
Speaker 2: over there. So they really did like a job of
Speaker 2: kind of setting you up for each individual experience. And
Speaker 2: then the bars at Mammoth Bar is great. And just
Speaker 2: to have some cheese curds and spotted cows at the
Speaker 2: end of the.
Speaker 1: Night or cheese curds are a rack.
Speaker 2: You know.
Speaker 1: Do you have any stay aways? Do you have any
Speaker 1: stay aways? Is there something that that just doesn't do
Speaker 1: it for you?
Speaker 2: Well, I mean it might just be like my stomach
Speaker 2: kind of thing. But in the Mammoth Bar, they offer
Speaker 2: a buffalo cheese curd and that's just like super not
Speaker 2: for me. So it's I mean, I'm.
Speaker 1: Sure I like the buffalo cheese curd.
Speaker 2: No, it's just like they taste amazing. But then if
Speaker 2: you're trying to have that on a hot day and
Speaker 2: then go out and play golf, it's just like, I mean,
Speaker 2: it's Wisconsin in general, like you just got to get
Speaker 2: used to the cheese kind of thing, but the buffalo
Speaker 2: in particular are delicious. Just kind of make sure you're
Speaker 2: prepared and ready for it.
Speaker 1: I will I will say I think the Sandbox Twilight
Speaker 1: Round late nights, it's an incredible scene out there, it
Speaker 1: just ain't it's not for me anymore. It's gotten too slow.
Speaker 2: It is so packed now yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1: It just has gotten and for me at that point,
Speaker 1: I'm just like, I'm tired from the day and one
Speaker 1: thing I'm not interested in is really slow golf. I'd
Speaker 1: rather just be like chilling at that point, and I'd
Speaker 1: rather like, for the amount of time I'm gonna invest
Speaker 1: I'd rather go I I don't know if they still
Speaker 1: do it. I'd rather go play the six hole Sand
Speaker 1: Valley loop than like play an insanely slow round of
Speaker 1: the Sandbox. That would be I'm just gonna this is
Speaker 1: my This is my personal opinion. I also think, though,
Speaker 1: if you're playing an eight s and it's like all
Speaker 1: your boys and you're like, that can be an amazing
Speaker 1: experience too, So I get it. For me personally, it's
Speaker 1: not my jam. I'd rather just like hang out and
Speaker 1: talk or go play like six holes at the sandbo
Speaker 1: or at the sand Valley because they have a nice
Speaker 1: little sick hole looper they at least used to that's
Speaker 1: like incredible, like and there's nobody out there and I
Speaker 1: can just I can hit all the shots, I you know,
Speaker 1: So anyways, that's me. That's my stay away. A couple
Speaker 1: other things that I would recommend as someone who's spent
Speaker 1: like an exorbitant amount of time there, I would recommend
Speaker 1: if you have free time, if say you're staying off
Speaker 1: site and you have like one of the weird tea
Speaker 1: times that's a little bit later, which a lot of
Speaker 1: people do, and it's not like I would say, there's
Speaker 1: a lot of things you can do there that make
Speaker 1: it worthwhile to do that. A couple of things I've
Speaker 1: done that I would recommend swimming. They have some lakes
Speaker 1: go swimming. It's honestly delightful. Another thing, the trails are
Speaker 1: pretty cool. As someone who's like hoofed it out to
Speaker 1: drone there so many times in my life I've taken
Speaker 1: a lot of those trails. They're pretty cool. And they
Speaker 1: do these bikes on trails. So like recommendation, like if
Speaker 1: it's full, I know there's like a lot of angst
Speaker 1: about like it fills up. It's a lottery system. I
Speaker 1: don't think it's the end of the world. If you
Speaker 1: stay off site and you book these non peaked times
Speaker 1: because there is stuff to do, grass court, tennis awesome.
Speaker 1: This is not like there is a world if you
Speaker 1: did the house rental where this is not a crazy
Speaker 1: thing to do with your family. It's not crazy like
Speaker 1: it's remote, like you could tone down your golf and
Speaker 1: there are activities. The biking, the swimming, the tennis are
Speaker 1: all pretty awesome. And I think that's one of the
Speaker 1: things that's unique about about Sand Valley in comparison to
Speaker 1: Abandon is that like there is some family activities that
Speaker 1: is going to make it, like I think probably in
Speaker 1: ten years, a pretty interesting family destination. And the lakes
Speaker 1: are like fun to go in.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think they just kind of built the new
Speaker 2: one over by the Commons and the lake also over
Speaker 2: by Sand Valley. They're amazing freshwater lakes and definitely would
Speaker 2: recommend that. The biking is is fat tire biking, which
Speaker 2: I've never done it. Have you done it at Sand Valley?
Speaker 2: I mean it looks super fun, so it's a very
Speaker 2: different kind of experience.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's where like if you don't have like it's
Speaker 1: it's not the end of the world. If you're only
Speaker 1: playing one round golf there because there is other stuff
Speaker 1: to do they have. They have a small gym too
Speaker 1: if you're into that, if you want to do that.
Speaker 1: But like, there's such good outdoor activities to do out there.
Speaker 1: The one other thing I'd love to hit on is
Speaker 1: so getting there. People fly into O'Hare, people flying to Milwaukee,
Speaker 1: people find a Madison a couple of recommendations on the
Speaker 1: way up, Eagle Springs, a nine hole Mompa golf course.
Speaker 1: If you're coming from O'Hare, it's worth the stop on
Speaker 1: the way up. It's awesome, it's memorable. You will you'll
Speaker 1: never forget the first two holes. Laws Sonia obviously is
Speaker 1: at the top of my list of places to go
Speaker 1: in Wisconsin. And it's not like necessarily out of the way,
Speaker 1: it's not super convenient. And then I would just say,
Speaker 1: if you if you're flying and you can fly direct
Speaker 1: into Madison, that's the ideal way to get to get
Speaker 1: up there. And so I would you know, that would
Speaker 1: be the ideal. I think most people will fly into O'Hare.
Speaker 1: Minneapolis is another option to fly into, but those would
Speaker 1: be my res for getting up there. Will thank you
Speaker 1: for writing this guide up people can read it on
Speaker 1: the website. Any parting thoughts before you get out of
Speaker 1: here on Sand Valley.
Speaker 2: No, I think you hit it on the head. I
Speaker 2: think I should mention that I am currently in Green Lake, Wisconsin,
Speaker 2: next to las Sonia, and we talked to people on
Speaker 2: the putting Green that are driving to Sand Valley this afternoon,
Speaker 2: so they stopped at Lawsonia on the way, So I
Speaker 2: would just echo that. I think stopping at Eagle Springs
Speaker 2: and or laws Sonia, or if you want to tag on,
Speaker 2: like you could do a day in Madison. It's a
Speaker 2: wonderful college town.
Speaker 1: You could pair it go on the lake.
Speaker 2: Yeah, oh, that's a terrific town. You could even like
Speaker 2: get over to the New Glares Brewery which is out
Speaker 2: that way. I mean, there's a lot to do in
Speaker 2: Wisconsin if you really want to make a big trip
Speaker 2: out of it, and then you can always pair it
Speaker 2: with Aaron Hills or Whistling if you want to kind
Speaker 2: of get out of the way. But I think doing
Speaker 2: non golf activities mixed in just makes this trip even
Speaker 2: that much better.
Speaker 1: You hit on Madison. I used to work. I had
Speaker 1: one of my jobs before this. I with like intertwined
Speaker 1: in restaurant and hospitality scenes. And one of the places
Speaker 1: I would go occasionally for work trips is Madison. Wonderful
Speaker 1: place to spend a.
Speaker 2: Night in the summer, especially like they have those like
Speaker 2: concrete stairs where you can just grab a beer. It
Speaker 2: is unbelievable over there.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I would uh, great bars, great great food. Also
Speaker 1: like good concert good concerts come there. Like don't sleep on,
Speaker 1: like planning the stop on the way up if you
Speaker 1: and like say you can't get accommodations a certain way,
Speaker 1: don't sleep on, like look at the show list if
Speaker 1: you're into music. And because Madison gets like legit bands
Speaker 1: that come through there, so uh yeah. And if you
Speaker 1: if it's the fall, obviously you get the school in
Speaker 1: session and there's even more stuff going on.
Speaker 3: It's right.
Speaker 2: You can watch the batteries beat up on the Alina.
Speaker 1: Oh get out of here. We're we're we're a dominant force.
Speaker 1: And badgers aren't beating up on the line I anymore.
Speaker 1: Those days are gone. We got Burt, you know you
Speaker 1: got to Yeah, we got we got their former coach. Uh.
Speaker 1: You know, the stories of Bert and Madison are amusing
Speaker 1: if you if you find the right, people. But uh
Speaker 1: but yeah, the days of Wisconsin beating up on on
Speaker 1: on Illinois might be by gone.
Speaker 2: That's okay. We there's still still worth a stop in Madison.
Speaker 2: And uh hell if you could even just drop the
Speaker 2: kids off at Wisconsin Dell's if you really want to
Speaker 2: and then go on a golf trip. So if there's
Speaker 2: if the water parks scene is what they're after, then
Speaker 2: there's a right option for you.
Speaker 1: That's right, the Dell's. All right, Thanks Will, we'll talk dude,
Speaker 1: and thanks for all your work with the with the
Speaker 1: events and and making those run uh uh smoothly and
Speaker 1: uh and and shown everybody an awesome time. Absolutely, all right,
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Speaker 1: to Abbie Libenthal, who's going to talk to us about Pinehurst,
Speaker 1: the Pinehurst area. I think the expression is it's always
Speaker 1: a lovely day in Pinehurst. I'm not sure it could
Speaker 1: be wrong, but I'm excited to bring in our resident expert,
Speaker 1: our head of Marketing, Abby Libenthal, who happens to live
Speaker 1: in the Pinehurst area. So this is a great honor
Speaker 1: to talk about somebody's hometown. I guess do you call
Speaker 1: it your hometown when you live there but you're not
Speaker 1: from there? These are all questions that we can figure out. Abby.
Speaker 1: Welcome on the Friday Golf Podcast for the first time.
Speaker 5: Thank you, first time, longtime fan, and I think partially
Speaker 5: would be upset with you saying it's a lovely day
Speaker 5: in Pinehurst.
Speaker 6: It's a beautiful day in Pinehurst.
Speaker 1: Beautiful, Yeah, beautiful day. Do you have any clarification on
Speaker 1: the hometown versus yeah, where you live.
Speaker 5: I don't tell people that my hometown is Pinehurst. I
Speaker 5: tell them it's like where I reside.
Speaker 1: Now, okay, Yeah, if you went off pro golfers, they
Speaker 1: you know, the tournament's list hometowns, and it's generally where
Speaker 1: they live.
Speaker 6: Now, a lot of sea Island.
Speaker 1: Of Jupiter, Scotts Sale. There's not a lot of diversity
Speaker 1: in the hometown on the PGA tour. Why yess Why
Speaker 1: you know Leishman always stuck out with Virginia Beach. You know,
Speaker 1: there's always a you know, a nice little nugget in there.
Speaker 1: Or Mett McCarty's a Chicago guy. He lives in Chicago.
Speaker 6: That's good. We need some more diversity.
Speaker 1: Let's talk about Pinehurst. So you put together a guide
Speaker 1: here on Pinehurst. I think everybody knows about Pinehurst, so
Speaker 1: we don't. I don't think we need to like break ground.
Speaker 1: In terms of Pinehurst, I think one of the unique
Speaker 1: things with this this destination versus a broad destinations. You know,
Speaker 1: obviously American destinations you get in the Sand Valleys, the
Speaker 1: Pinehurst abandoned the access the way I understand that the
Speaker 1: access to Pinehurst is really controlled by staying there. Correct, Yes,
Speaker 1: how can you play if you don't stay at the resort?
Speaker 5: You can call I believe, like a select number of
Speaker 5: days in advance for each of the courses. You know,
Speaker 5: they kind of tear their golf courses two, four, eight, ten,
Speaker 5: and then everything else. And I even think the Cradle
Speaker 5: you can call like twenty four hours in advance to
Speaker 5: book a tea time. But otherwise, yeah, they you know,
Speaker 5: they are really pushing for people to actually stay at
Speaker 5: the resort to secure those tea times. And if you're
Speaker 5: making a trip, you kind of want to know you're
Speaker 5: going to be able.
Speaker 6: To play those courses.
Speaker 5: So that's kind of the biggest difference, I would say,
Speaker 5: within like the last five years of visiting the area.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think I think that's and it's different from
Speaker 1: like Sand Valley. You can get on in the afternoon
Speaker 1: even if you're staying offsite abandoned. Similarly, you can stay
Speaker 1: off site and get on the t sheet still. But here,
Speaker 1: you know, if you want to play those courses you
Speaker 1: don't like by I guess my only recommendation is if
Speaker 1: you're going for a significant period of time and maybe
Speaker 1: leave it an afternoon free and try and get out
Speaker 1: then and you can play one of them. In terms
Speaker 1: of the Pinehurst golf courses, we'll just touch on them quickly.
Speaker 1: You know you recommended a few in your guide. You
Speaker 1: have number one, number number three, I mean number two,
Speaker 1: number three, number four, number eight, number ten, Yes, number
Speaker 1: two obviously Championship course. Number four is the golf course
Speaker 1: that Gil Han's renovated. Number ten is the brand new
Speaker 1: Tom Doak course. Two courses that haven't really been covered
Speaker 1: much by this podcast, or I would say in the
Speaker 1: golf architecture community, are number three and number eight. Number
Speaker 1: three's one that I haven't played that I would really
Speaker 1: like to play. Tell us a little bit about number three.
Speaker 5: Oh yeah, so three is shorter. I think it maxes
Speaker 5: out at like maybe fifty six hundred yards. I'd have
Speaker 5: to double check. But the greens are really small and
Speaker 5: they're really challenging. They're like incredibly undulating.
Speaker 2: There was.
Speaker 5: Last summer, I was practicing a lot more to try
Speaker 5: and play in a mid am qualifier, and so somebody
Speaker 5: recommended to me, like, go over to three and play
Speaker 5: as much of it as you can, because your approach
Speaker 5: game is going to get a lot better.
Speaker 6: So it's a really fun course.
Speaker 5: And it is kind of a nice equalizer if you're
Speaker 5: playing with maybe you have some women in your group,
Speaker 5: maybe you have some guys in your group that are
Speaker 5: really long hitters. It kind of like balances it out
Speaker 5: because everybody's kind of like smushed together on the tea
Speaker 5: boxes and it just makes for a really fun round.
Speaker 6: So I really like three. You can just get around
Speaker 6: it quick too.
Speaker 1: I think like people go nuts on golf trips. They
Speaker 1: play a lot of golf, yeah, and I think what
Speaker 1: happens oftentimes is that they get fatigued from playing so
Speaker 1: much golf, and then you kind of can ruin some
Speaker 1: of the later days in your golf trip. To be
Speaker 1: that golf course seems like a an ideal thirty six
Speaker 1: hole day golf course to put in there in the
Speaker 1: afternoon after playing one of the big golf courses.
Speaker 5: Yeah, absolutely, And then I really like eight. I used
Speaker 5: to not like eight. I it was a it's a
Speaker 5: bigger walk and a lot of it was tree lined,
Speaker 5: especially on the back nine, the final stretch of like
Speaker 5: fifteen to eighteen.
Speaker 6: I didn't love it.
Speaker 5: But they redid the greens a few years ago and
Speaker 5: took down a bunch of trees and it's just like
Speaker 5: it's a much more fun finish. You can look around
Speaker 5: and like see everybody else playing golf, and the holes
Speaker 5: are much more open. So it used to not be
Speaker 5: one of my favorites, but now it is. I think
Speaker 5: it's a fazzio. And you know, Pinehurst does add that
Speaker 5: a lot. If you're looking to book like four rounds
Speaker 5: on your trip, it's a good addition. And the nice
Speaker 5: thing about it is they just added a bunch of cottages,
Speaker 5: so for people who like don't want to stay in
Speaker 5: a hotel, you can get all your buddies in one
Speaker 5: of the cottages and they're on hoo eight and number eight.
Speaker 1: That is delightful. I do think that's like one of
Speaker 1: the things that the Sand Valleys of the world, the
Speaker 1: bandon the and really the destination clubs have done so
Speaker 1: well is the idea of the cabin and you you know,
Speaker 1: you go to dinner, but then you have this great
Speaker 1: place to just hang out with your friends for you know,
Speaker 1: a night cap, or you know, it's the morning and
Speaker 1: you have a little time and you kill it in
Speaker 1: the living room. I do think that the cabin experience
Speaker 1: when you're on a trip is delightful. Yeah, you talked
Speaker 1: about the packages. Like the way I've generally seen it
Speaker 1: done is like two four ten eight or two four
Speaker 1: eight or you know two four ten is are the
Speaker 1: popular ones. Is that pretty much the only way to
Speaker 1: get number two access at this point is through the pages.
Speaker 6: That's how I see it.
Speaker 5: Yeah, it is really hard, and if you do get on,
Speaker 5: you may be starting on number ten, like whole ten
Speaker 5: of number two, and then you're finishing on nine. That's
Speaker 5: the way that they try to get more rounds out there.
Speaker 5: So if you like really just want to guarantee playing
Speaker 5: number two and starting on number one, you're gonna you
Speaker 5: probably have to stay the on site.
Speaker 1: I mean, they're they're far worse things. I do think,
Speaker 1: like in terms of like how I would rank the
Speaker 1: golf courses in the area, I think it's kind of
Speaker 1: pine urse number two and then you can put a
Speaker 1: bunch of courses in a second bucket, and we'll get
Speaker 1: into some of the ones in Southern Pines, which include
Speaker 1: Mid Pines, Pine Needles, Southern Pines, and then I think
Speaker 1: I would put probably number ten in that bucket. I
Speaker 1: am not the biggest fan of number four. I like it.
Speaker 1: I think, you know, well, has it reopened from the
Speaker 1: the closure and you know, figure out the grass. I
Speaker 1: think it's it's a good golf course. But one of
Speaker 1: the things I take away from that project having been
Speaker 1: out there is like just how much work goes into
Speaker 1: undoing an old golf course to redo it. And I think, like,
Speaker 1: it's not my favorite, but some people like four and
Speaker 1: more than number two. So in terms of the way
Speaker 1: I would think about, like if I was going to
Speaker 1: go there for four or five days, I'd probably want
Speaker 1: to hit at least two of the Pinehurst golf courses
Speaker 1: in a trip like that. You made an interesting recommendation
Speaker 1: to me. I was going last fall for Tom Doks
Speaker 1: Renaissance Cup, and I had a choice of where to
Speaker 1: stay at Pinehurst between the Carolina, the Holly and the Manor,
Speaker 1: and I was surprised at what you what you suggested,
Speaker 1: But then pleasantly surprised when I got there. What what
Speaker 1: what is your preferred place of occupancy of the Pinehurst Resort?
Speaker 6: Did I tell you the Manor?
Speaker 5: Yes, yes, so, yeah, I really like the Manor. Pinehurst
Speaker 5: Resort required it a few years ago, and it sits
Speaker 5: right next to the Pinehurst Brewery. And then in addition,
Speaker 5: within the Manor is the North and South Bar, which
Speaker 5: is a whiskey bar. It's you know, you're not at
Speaker 5: the Carolina, which is the Marquis the Queen of the
Speaker 5: South as they like to call it hotel, But the
Speaker 5: Manor it's a little smaller, it's quaint. They have like
Speaker 5: a little library down there, and you can still walk
Speaker 5: into the village. You can still walk, obviously walk to
Speaker 5: the brewery. It's very central still, but it's just like
Speaker 5: just off the path.
Speaker 1: Yeah. I the Carolina doesn't really do it for me, right,
Speaker 1: you know, I I don't know, I don't know why.
Speaker 1: I just I'm not I'm not like a huge fan
Speaker 1: of the Carolina. I found the Manor to be much
Speaker 1: more my kind of speed. It was a little bit quieter,
Speaker 1: less going on, honestly, sometimes for me, like I prefer
Speaker 1: less service than more service. And that was something that like,
Speaker 1: I know, like everybody's all about, but like to me,
Speaker 1: the manner was just like kind of like very chill,
Speaker 1: right and laid back, and that was it kind of
Speaker 1: I really liked it. And as you said, the location,
Speaker 1: I think something that like I know that some of
Speaker 1: these packages come with food, Like I mean, the job
Speaker 1: of a resort, if you're a running resort, what you're
Speaker 1: thinking about is like how do we maximize how do
Speaker 1: we get every dollar of somebody's spend. Sure, what I
Speaker 1: would say as someone who has frequented the area, and
Speaker 1: I think you would probably agree with this statement, and
Speaker 1: and I'd lean on you for specifics. But to me,
Speaker 1: if I go to if I go to Pinehurst, the
Speaker 1: Pinehurst area where I want to hang out at night
Speaker 1: is nowhere near Pinehurst, and I want to be in
Speaker 1: the Southern Pines area. Would you agree with that?
Speaker 6: Yes?
Speaker 5: I So what I will say is that I think
Speaker 5: it's pretty awesome that you can go to Pinehurst Resort.
Speaker 5: And what makes it unique compared to all the other
Speaker 5: resorts in America is you can walk into a village
Speaker 5: where like people live and like breathe and love golf,
Speaker 5: So you can spend time in the village and still
Speaker 5: like maybe not go to a resort. I recommended Lisy
Speaker 5: in the guide, and Lisa's this Italian restaurant that is
Speaker 5: just like it's so good. It's a gem for the middle,
Speaker 5: you know, a landlocked North Carolina and has a great bar.
Speaker 5: But that's really the only one of the only places
Speaker 5: I'll actually eat in the village. I live closer to
Speaker 5: Southern Pines and that's where I spend most of my
Speaker 5: time off of the golf course, and a lot has
Speaker 5: popped up there in the last few years because there's
Speaker 5: a big military presence in Southern Pines, so there's a
Speaker 5: ton of families that live in the area and just
Speaker 5: like a lot of like business growth, so plenty of
Speaker 5: good spots in Southern Pines.
Speaker 1: Yeah. I you know, my wife and I like can
Speaker 1: contemplated moving there years ago. We like looked around, we
Speaker 1: stayed there, and we really liked it. I think this
Speaker 1: is like a big miss of people is that they
Speaker 1: go to Pinehurst and they just stay at the resort.
Speaker 1: I think going to like Southern Pines for food, beverage,
Speaker 1: coffee in the morning is like an excellent move and
Speaker 1: it you know, as somebody, I probably spend a little
Speaker 1: bit more time at resorts. Albeit this year I haven't
Speaker 1: really spent any time at resorts, but I spend more
Speaker 1: time at resorts than most of the common person. I
Speaker 1: feel like sometimes at golf resorts, I get like kind
Speaker 1: of resorted out. It's there's just something about being I
Speaker 1: just I like to get to where like normal people are.
Speaker 1: And to me, this is the cheat code of Pinehurst
Speaker 1: is if I were building a trip to go to Pinehurst,
Speaker 1: I would do the minimum trip to there to get
Speaker 1: to play number two. And if I had the ability
Speaker 1: to play a few more days, then I would probably
Speaker 1: go rent a airbnb in Southern Pines. And albeit I
Speaker 1: think this is probably going to change with Marine and
Speaker 1: Lawn coming into Southern Pines and doing the Mid Pines there.
Speaker 1: That was the news a couple of weeks ago that
Speaker 1: they're going to rehab a lot of the lodging around
Speaker 1: Mid Pines and Pine Needles. But while it's set up
Speaker 1: the way it is, I think the ideal trip there
Speaker 1: is a couple of days at Pinehurst to play number two,
Speaker 1: maybe play you know, number ten in another course you
Speaker 1: can pick your poison, then hop over to Southern Pines
Speaker 1: to Airbnb there and enjoy kind of small town North
Speaker 1: Carolina living at its finest. I think that like because
Speaker 1: of obviously the golf tourism, Southern Pines punches way above
Speaker 1: it's wait in terms of food and culture in that area.
Speaker 5: Yeah. Absolutely, And there's plenty of places to stay. You know,
Speaker 5: you can find Airbnbs right on that main broad street,
Speaker 5: or you can stay somewhere closer to Pine Needles, Mid Pines,
Speaker 5: Southern Pines.
Speaker 6: It's all like everything.
Speaker 5: You know, even if you drive between Southern Pines and
Speaker 5: Pine heresay ten minute drive, like nothing's far, and then
Speaker 5: once you're in Southern Pines, everything's like six minutes away.
Speaker 5: I would say, So you can't really go wrong with
Speaker 5: the accommodations there. And then yeah, I'm super interested to
Speaker 5: keep track of the marine and lawn development.
Speaker 6: It'll it'll just be fascinating.
Speaker 1: And so we stayed there for the US Open last year. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and it was like, after spending like a week there,
Speaker 1: it's just like, God, this place has so much potential.
Speaker 1: All three of those golf courses, Southern Pines, Pine Needles,
Speaker 1: and Mid Pines are like terrific golf course wonderful golf courses,
Speaker 1: and I think the the accommodations there have like a
Speaker 1: lot of room to grow, but it does offer I
Speaker 1: would say, a much quieter experience to Pinehurst. Yeah, kind
Speaker 1: of a welcome, like much more like quaint experience, like
Speaker 1: the if you could trast the mid Pines or the
Speaker 1: Pine Needles Bar to you know, the Deuce, It's like
Speaker 1: you couldn't be more diametrically different. Yeah.
Speaker 5: Yeah, you're going to find like four old guys sitting
Speaker 5: in the Pine Needles Bar just like who've been going
Speaker 5: there every night for the last thirty years.
Speaker 6: So just keep an eye out.
Speaker 1: It's a great bar too. It's got the like the
Speaker 1: sub like the low the low bar with like the
Speaker 1: cozy arm arm chairs. Elite golf bar.
Speaker 6: I have to say, yeah, it's great. You like walk
Speaker 6: down the little pit and there you are.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 1: I love those bars that are like sunken down it
Speaker 1: kind of it's uh, it's definitely like a by gone
Speaker 1: design style for a bar, but one that I you know,
Speaker 1: it's very easy to spend a lot of time at. Yes,
Speaker 1: in terms of uh, what are your favorite I guess
Speaker 1: you know, we just hit on those three golf courses.
Speaker 1: But what are your favorite courses outside of like the
Speaker 1: main you know, known golf courses in Pinehurst, because I
Speaker 1: know there are other ones there.
Speaker 5: I mean, I mean, granted, these are all private courses,
Speaker 5: so some of them are like going to be harder
Speaker 5: to access. But I really do love Dormy Club. It's
Speaker 5: a really fun place to play. They've kind of changed
Speaker 5: their model a bit too, where you have to stay
Speaker 5: and play with a member on site, but you know,
Speaker 5: it's definitely, you know, outside of the Pinehurst area, so
Speaker 5: you do feel like.
Speaker 6: You're kind of in the middle of nowhere.
Speaker 5: And it goes back to you know that stay and
Speaker 5: play of like a tree farm or those other locations
Speaker 5: where it's there's not many rounds out there every day,
Speaker 5: but it is really fun. And then CCNC Country Club
Speaker 5: of North Carolina is really great. They hosted the Junior
Speaker 5: Am not too long ago on their Dogwood course. It's
Speaker 5: another good place. And then I play a lot out
Speaker 5: of Forest Creek, which has two Tom Fazio courses, But
Speaker 5: I'm not sure about many other like public access courses
Speaker 5: aside from Tobacco.
Speaker 1: I think, like the thing I would say about public
Speaker 1: access there is you know, most of those golf courses
Speaker 1: are built like one of the just key ingredients from
Speaker 1: for the jump of golf is land and the topography,
Speaker 1: the natural elements of golf there, you know, plus the
Speaker 1: sand makes it makes a lot of those golf courses
Speaker 1: that are not the big ones really fun to play
Speaker 1: because they have the elements of you know, hey, this
Speaker 1: isn't maybe the most in vogue architect or the most
Speaker 1: you know, well thought of golf course, but this is
Speaker 1: worthwhile because you know, you're playing golf on on nice
Speaker 1: land with well well draining soils. Where where do you
Speaker 1: fall on tobacco road? We've ever talked about.
Speaker 5: This, I know, so funny quick story. I took my
Speaker 5: dad out there like three years ago for his sixtieth birthday,
Speaker 5: and you know, we finished first my husband and I
Speaker 5: and his friends, and then behind us is our dad
Speaker 5: and my dad and he's and I'm like, what'd you think?
Speaker 5: Because like it's so big and sprawling and like it's
Speaker 5: wild out there. He goes fucking hated this golf course.
Speaker 6: I was just like, okay, got it.
Speaker 5: So I naturally bought him like the tied eye t
Speaker 5: shirt with strands on the front. And that's his gift
Speaker 5: every year, So some sort of tobacco road gift. I
Speaker 5: it's like so gimmicky, right, Like you're just playing like
Speaker 5: Target Jurassic Park golf out there. It's definitely like a
Speaker 5: site to behold, but it's not my favorite. It's kind
Speaker 5: of really expensive.
Speaker 1: So that's one of the crazier things. I went there
Speaker 1: like eight years ago, and I think at that time
Speaker 1: the peak rate was probably about one hundred and fifty
Speaker 1: dollars or so, and I think now it doesn't it
Speaker 1: push up into the three hundred, Yeah, And I think
Speaker 1: that's like where you know, I I thought playing it,
Speaker 1: I thought there's some really neat stuff out there.
Speaker 5: It's visually like really fun to explore and like run around.
Speaker 1: There's some really good golf holes out there too, But
Speaker 1: for the price. At this point, I you know, it
Speaker 1: becomes like like I think it's a place, it's one
Speaker 1: of the more unique golf courses you're going to see.
Speaker 1: It's a you know, and obviously there's there's a lot
Speaker 1: of love for Mike Strands in the world of golf.
Speaker 1: I might not be the head of the Mic Strands
Speaker 1: Society whenever it comes up, but but I used to
Speaker 1: you know, I used to say, yeah, this is absolutely
Speaker 1: a must play, must see, but now like with where
Speaker 1: the price is going, it just you know, to me
Speaker 1: it I don't know, I you know, I'd rather go
Speaker 1: play Piners number ten for that pure and play it
Speaker 1: a bunch. It's more walkable one. I think that's one
Speaker 1: of the things is walking up Tobacco Road not really
Speaker 1: a fun thing to do. That being said, it is
Speaker 1: like I think like the thing that people could take
Speaker 1: away is like it is a one of one golf
Speaker 1: course and it's you know, if you have the means
Speaker 1: and that, but have the means to you know, do
Speaker 1: a bunch of golf courses down there that are three
Speaker 1: hundred bucks or plus, Like, yeah, do that. But I
Speaker 1: think like you get a lot more value out of
Speaker 1: the Mid Pines, Pine Needles, Southern Pines than you do
Speaker 1: going to Tobacco Road.
Speaker 5: And that's like the big thing about the Pinehurst area there.
Speaker 5: You know, you're going to do more than one trip
Speaker 5: there if you you know, really love golf and maybe
Speaker 5: you really enjoyed playing that type of like topography and
Speaker 5: the rolling terrains and the sand, like you're probably going
Speaker 5: to go back, so like maybe it's just for the
Speaker 5: second trip.
Speaker 1: It's true. I do like that is the unique thing
Speaker 1: about Pinehurst. It does feel like a place that you
Speaker 1: can go multiple times, more so than other ones. I
Speaker 1: think Sand Valley now with like it's it's proximity to
Speaker 1: the Midwest, is probably one that people feel that way.
Speaker 1: But I do think that's where Pinehurst. You are you're
Speaker 1: really into.
Speaker 6: Food, Yes, I love eating.
Speaker 1: I mean it's delightful. Who doesn't love livations, you know,
Speaker 1: and food, food and drink. What's the what's the place
Speaker 1: that you you unequivocally say you can't miss there?
Speaker 5: So in Pinehurst, I would say Lisa, like, it's a
Speaker 5: great meal, the atmosphere's fun. They've got the patio, the
Speaker 5: indoor space is fine. They've got the bar. In Southern Pines,
Speaker 5: I really like one American Fusion. It's they have a
Speaker 5: good outdoor patio and the menu is pretty unique for the.
Speaker 6: Area out there. We did go there.
Speaker 5: Yes, they have a really good cocktail list as well.
Speaker 5: It's just like good variety. It's different food. It's you know,
Speaker 5: when like you were saying before, you know, when you
Speaker 5: eat resort food, you're having like meat and potatoes or
Speaker 5: like salmon and potatoes.
Speaker 6: Every single meal.
Speaker 1: Is that Cisco truck Jackson. You know, it's like the
Speaker 1: not Cisco or fine technology you've provided provider partner, the
Speaker 1: food company. It's like the same one that was that
Speaker 1: that brought you all your meat to your door when
Speaker 1: you're in college, right, right.
Speaker 5: So you want to switch it up. I do like
Speaker 5: one five American Fusion. There's Chef Warren's is really good too.
Speaker 5: It's a French, a French restaurant that's that's really solid
Speaker 5: and just again like unique dishes. I don't know how
Speaker 5: much PJ is going to eat at either of those restaurants.
Speaker 5: Probably not much, but uh but maybe we'll convince him
Speaker 5: when he makes his next visit to the area.
Speaker 1: I'm going to offer one stay away. Yeah, this is
Speaker 1: just a personal, experienced stay away. Don't go to the
Speaker 1: Beltree tavern. Oh that's my stay away. Yeah, don't go there.
Speaker 1: Underrated low key great, low key option. Oh sure for
Speaker 1: people that enjoy like a nice porch and go to
Speaker 1: Southern Pine's brewery, order order some uber eats yep, and
Speaker 1: just sit there enjoy some beers. I feel like I
Speaker 1: like I love the like the patio. They have that
Speaker 1: just it kind of sits up. You get a nice
Speaker 1: spreeze and you just order your food there and you
Speaker 1: can just enjoy enjoy that.
Speaker 5: Yeah, get soapies for pizza. Just bring the pizzas over
Speaker 5: it an easy meal. It's good people watching too, because
Speaker 5: across the street there's like a there's a few restaurants
Speaker 5: and you just like watch people walking around.
Speaker 1: What's the pixel click for coffee.
Speaker 5: So in Southern Pines, I really like a new place
Speaker 5: called Mazonet. They have it just you know, it's a
Speaker 5: classic coffee shop, but they do have some food. And
Speaker 5: if you don't need food and more, Diego is this
Speaker 5: like Colombian coffee shop that's really solid and they make
Speaker 5: fresh croissants every morning there.
Speaker 6: It's very good.
Speaker 1: I went to Mason that you recommended that for me. Also,
Speaker 1: if you have your kids, they have kids.
Speaker 6: Toye yes, a lot of kids there.
Speaker 1: I would point out. I was, I was there working,
Speaker 1: I have a young kid, and I was looking around
Speaker 1: us like I could conceivably drop my kid here and
Speaker 1: get some work done. Because of the kids toys. I
Speaker 1: think kids toys in coffee shops are like they're brilliant
Speaker 1: it's the only way you're going to get a pair,
Speaker 1: aren't with young kids into to sit at a coffee shop?
Speaker 5: Yeah, and they do. They're there all day. So it's
Speaker 5: a good spot though. And it's just easy to walk
Speaker 5: up and down that main street in Southern Pines and
Speaker 5: like pop in and out of shops, you know, like
Speaker 5: a really good bookstore. There is even a Pinehurst like
Speaker 5: shop there too, So if you're like, well, I got
Speaker 5: to get the merch like, you can still do that.
Speaker 5: It's just like a really nice place to walk around
Speaker 5: and kind of see what the community is actually like.
Speaker 1: I uh, yeah, I'm a I'm a big fan of
Speaker 1: Southern Pines. Yeah. But other other other tip from me,
Speaker 1: just don't speed in More County. Once you get close
Speaker 1: to More County, it's not worth it. They're gonna they're
Speaker 1: gonna say that you have to come back for court
Speaker 1: in person, and the only way to get out of
Speaker 1: it is higher local attorney. It's gonna cost you an
Speaker 1: arm and a leg. It's gonna be the most expensive,
Speaker 1: uh speeding ticket, you know, nominal normal speeding ticket that
Speaker 1: you can find. That's just a personal anecdote. Don't when
Speaker 1: you get close to more County do not whatsoever.
Speaker 6: Well, and they trick you.
Speaker 5: It goes from like sixty five to fifty five real fast.
Speaker 1: You come over the hill. That's the right way. They
Speaker 1: got me so dangerous. Just yeah, just be careful with that.
Speaker 1: It's it's a pain in the ass. Speaking from a
Speaker 1: personal experience, any parting Pineher's advice.
Speaker 5: Hmmm, you know, you know, but don't assume that you
Speaker 5: can get an uber from Pinehurst back to the Raleigh Airport.
Speaker 5: You really can't. So run a car if you're staying
Speaker 5: at the resort. They have shuttles that will take you
Speaker 5: to and from the Raleigh Airport. I just had a
Speaker 5: friend visit and she had like multiple ubers cancel on her.
Speaker 5: You can't get uber here in Pinehurst.
Speaker 3: You know.
Speaker 1: The last time I did this, the guy that was
Speaker 1: driving me was pitching me on trying to He wanted
Speaker 1: me to buy his cab business, getting into the cabusiness.
Speaker 5: Yeah no thanks, yeah, so just kidding. I mean, it's
Speaker 5: a great it's a great place to visit. One thing
Speaker 5: we didn't talk about too is like when I would
Speaker 5: say like peak, yeah, peak time to visit Pinehurst, I
Speaker 5: would say, like march to the end of May is
Speaker 5: really awesome. June you were there for the US Open.
Speaker 5: It's really hot and really humid.
Speaker 1: I didn't think I walked away from that week being okay.
Speaker 6: Okay, so like you would probably go through June wasn't terrible.
Speaker 5: Yeah, it gets really yeah, it gets really gross in
Speaker 5: July and August. I think they might even have like
Speaker 5: off peak pricing during that time. And and then the
Speaker 5: fall is beautiful.
Speaker 6: It's so nice.
Speaker 1: November yeah, incredible. Yeah.
Speaker 6: Sometimes we played on like on Christmas.
Speaker 1: So when what's like January? People always wonder about January
Speaker 1: through March.
Speaker 5: Yeah, so, I mean last year we did get a
Speaker 5: little bit of snow. It lasts like a day. But
Speaker 5: like if you're trip is book during that time, it's
Speaker 5: just not ideal. It's you know, the grass is dormant,
Speaker 5: which is like really fun to play on and like
Speaker 5: visually really cool. I would say it's really hit or
Speaker 5: miss in January and February March, you can get away
Speaker 5: with it.
Speaker 1: I went one time in February or March. It was
Speaker 1: when I lived in Chicago. I was kind of naive.
Speaker 6: We thought it was going to be nice and warm Chicago.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and I was like God, it's not very pleasant
Speaker 1: down here right now.
Speaker 5: No, No, it's still like it's not it's not the South.
Speaker 5: It's not like Florida.
Speaker 1: Rally's definitely the way way to go getting in there. Yeah, yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: it's the drive from Charlotte. The first time I the
Speaker 1: first course I played in Pineer, Syria was Dormy actually
Speaker 1: when it was public and it was my buddy got
Speaker 1: married in Charlotte and I drove. I was in my
Speaker 1: mid twenties. I drove all the way out there and
Speaker 1: back and that that was not a fun drive from Charlotte.
Speaker 1: If you can do the Raleigh Airport, it's pretty pretty
Speaker 1: easy drive from there. Yeah.
Speaker 6: So no, I mean we obviously love it.
Speaker 5: We lived there for the last three years, and I
Speaker 5: just think like Moore continues to develop in the area,
Speaker 5: but ultimately like it really is all centered in golf
Speaker 5: in both communities, which works well for me.
Speaker 1: Yeah. All right, Well, thanks for coming on. You could
Speaker 1: read Abby's full guide. She's got a lot of recommendations
Speaker 1: on the website, lots of rex.
Speaker 6: It was.
Speaker 1: It was great having somebody that actually like lives somewhere
Speaker 1: do the guide. I don't know, that's like my favorite
Speaker 1: thing when I go travel somewhere as I usually like
Speaker 1: to talk to somebody that lives there and to find stuff.
Speaker 1: And this was great. So thanks Abby, and we'll have
Speaker 1: you on again sometimes, I hope.
Speaker 6: So thanks guys.
Speaker 1: We'll see what's the next what's the next guide?
Speaker 5: I don't know.
Speaker 1: You may be the only person to spend a cabot.
Speaker 6: Yeah, I could do cabot. So let's go to Halifax.
Speaker 1: It's it's so hard to get to Yeah, it's a
Speaker 1: topic for another day. Like when I talk to people
Speaker 1: about getting there, it's like I'll just go to Edinburgh,
Speaker 1: correct stud Correct? All right? Thanks Avy, Thanks guys, all right,
Speaker 1: big thanks to all my guests for joining me on
Speaker 1: this podcast. Check out Frida Egg Guides at the Friday
Speaker 1: dot com. Just peruse the website. It would be my
Speaker 1: piece of advice. There's a lot of stuff up there.
Speaker 1: And big thanks to PJ Clark for editing and producing
Speaker 1: this podcast. This one was kind of a beast put together,
Speaker 1: so big thanks to PJ. We'll be back next week
Speaker 1: with our preview Five Things about the Ryder Cup with
Speaker 1: guests not guest now Frida Egg team member Kevin Bean
Speaker 1: Welkenberg We're super excited to add kvv to the team.
Speaker 1: He will be a fairly regular guest of this podcast
Speaker 1: We've got and also another reason go check out the
Speaker 1: website more writing on the website. He will be a
Speaker 1: regular contributor to our newsletter, subscribe to that and can't
Speaker 1: wait to see the stuff that KVB puts together for
Speaker 1: the Ryder Cup, which is right around the corner at
Speaker 1: Bethpage Black. So we'll have five things about the Ryder
Speaker 1: Cup coming live on Sunday, as we usually do for majors,
Speaker 1: So check that out there, and big thanks to everybody
Speaker 1: for listening, and we'll talk to you next week.