WEBVTT - Thinking Sideways: Dr. Bogle and Mrs. Chandler 0:00:00.120 --> 0:00:03.480 Hey guys, exciting news. I'm really really stoked about this. 0:00:03.760 --> 0:00:08.040 On March seventh, at noon Pacific Standard time, Team Sideways 0:00:08.160 --> 0:00:10.000 is going to host an a m A on the 0:00:10.080 --> 0:00:16.520 Unresolved Mysteries subreddit on Reddit. Pretty exciting. Hell yeah, yeah, 0:00:16.840 --> 0:00:18.800 So the mods will post an announcement a week prior, 0:00:18.920 --> 0:00:21.400 so if you can't join us at that time, at 0:00:21.480 --> 0:00:25.360 that date, you can post your questions there. Um, please 0:00:25.400 --> 0:00:29.920 don't email us questions will lose them and forget them. 0:00:30.560 --> 0:00:32.760 Let's try and contain this just to Reddit. But we're 0:00:32.760 --> 0:00:39.600 super excited and uh yeah, so if you can join us. Sorry, 0:00:39.800 --> 0:00:41.960 just in case somebody you know, five years from now, 0:00:41.920 --> 0:00:44.760 I was listening to this episode, not two thousand seventeen. 0:00:44.880 --> 0:00:52.600 This is not true yourself two thousand seventeen. Sorry, Thinking Sideways. 0:00:53.760 --> 0:01:03.760 I don't understand. You never know stories of things we 0:01:04.240 --> 0:01:09.479 don't know the answer too. Well. Hey, and welcome again 0:01:09.560 --> 0:01:14.880 to another episode of Thinking Sideways the podcast. The podcast. 0:01:15.160 --> 0:01:20.360 I'm Steve as always, joined by Devin Joe, and once 0:01:20.400 --> 0:01:23.560 again we get to tackle a mystery. It's a big 0:01:23.600 --> 0:01:27.160 on this one, it is, and once again it's we 0:01:27.240 --> 0:01:29.360 do this every now and again it's time for us 0:01:29.400 --> 0:01:31.640 to take on a story that's big enough that we've 0:01:31.800 --> 0:01:34.399 got to take it on as a team. Yeah, so 0:01:34.520 --> 0:01:36.640 this is one of our big shows, So be prepared. 0:01:36.840 --> 0:01:38.640 This one's going to go on for a while because 0:01:38.680 --> 0:01:43.000 there's a lot, a lot of details and intrigue and 0:01:43.120 --> 0:01:47.720 just kind of unusual things are unexpected things, despite what 0:01:47.760 --> 0:01:51.280 the Wikipedia page will tell you about this mystery. And yeah, 0:01:51.360 --> 0:01:56.200 somebody vandalized Wikipedia. Actually no, I figured out what the 0:01:56.240 --> 0:02:00.720 problem was. It was I didn't know how to use Wikipedia. Okay, 0:02:02.640 --> 0:02:05.960 And one quick note to our listeners before we get 0:02:06.040 --> 0:02:11.440 into the mystery. This story does acknowledge the existence of 0:02:11.480 --> 0:02:18.079 sex and some per marital decisions that revolve around that. 0:02:18.639 --> 0:02:20.839 So if the kids are in the room and you're 0:02:20.880 --> 0:02:23.080 listening and you're not quite sure you want them to 0:02:23.080 --> 0:02:25.520 to hear some of this, you might want to pause 0:02:25.600 --> 0:02:28.160 this one and listen to it later on your own. 0:02:28.680 --> 0:02:31.600 The story that we are going to tackle is going 0:02:31.639 --> 0:02:35.760 to be the unsolved deaths of Dr Gilbert Bogel and 0:02:35.919 --> 0:02:39.560 Mrs Margaret Chandler. And there are two people who died 0:02:39.880 --> 0:02:46.800 for unknown reasons in Australia sometime in the early hours 0:02:46.960 --> 0:02:52.160 of New Year's Day, well at five am and seven am, respectively. 0:02:52.160 --> 0:02:59.960 But okay, well, well yeah, thanks for killing the mystery 0:03:00.000 --> 0:03:05.480 all right. Before we begin, I do have to send 0:03:05.560 --> 0:03:10.240 out a huge thank you to Elena, who sent this 0:03:10.320 --> 0:03:14.040 story to us and then pointed us to a ton 0:03:14.680 --> 0:03:18.320 of resources kind of made this one happen for us 0:03:18.360 --> 0:03:24.800 to be quite yeah, it was again, thank you. Let's 0:03:24.800 --> 0:03:30.920 begin with the story. On New Year's Day three, somewhere 0:03:30.960 --> 0:03:37.120 around nine am, two teenage boys were walking along a 0:03:37.320 --> 0:03:43.280 path that runs along the Lane Cove River in Sydney, Australia. 0:03:43.760 --> 0:03:47.600 They came upon a man keeps laying off of the 0:03:47.640 --> 0:03:52.840 main path, and from the accounts that I've seen, they 0:03:52.880 --> 0:03:57.480 when they first saw him, they figured he was drunk. Yeah, 0:03:57.600 --> 0:04:00.160 that's everything. That's the one that I've heard the most. 0:04:00.200 --> 0:04:02.840 This This dude was just laying there. It's New Year's morning, 0:04:04.640 --> 0:04:09.200 he's drunk. But it wasn't until they came back down 0:04:09.280 --> 0:04:14.120 that path and saw him still there that they noticed 0:04:14.160 --> 0:04:16.960 that his face had changed color and they realized that 0:04:17.040 --> 0:04:19.479 he was probably dead and they ran for help. Yeah, 0:04:19.520 --> 0:04:22.520 I heard that. They said. They walked past him, and 0:04:22.560 --> 0:04:24.680 then a couple hours later they came back and he 0:04:24.800 --> 0:04:30.320 literally had not moved at all and they thought, huh 0:04:30.360 --> 0:04:34.600 this it's kind of weird though, I mean, in that 0:04:34.640 --> 0:04:37.440 two hours, nobody else walked by him. I mean it's 0:04:37.480 --> 0:04:43.039 New Year's morning. Joe hungover exact or asleep. I'm suspecting 0:04:43.040 --> 0:04:47.120 that's what killed these two. Hangover. The hangover. I've had 0:04:47.160 --> 0:04:51.240 some killer hangovers, but not that bad. The man was 0:04:51.560 --> 0:04:55.080 thirty eight year old doctor Vogel, and he was laying 0:04:55.240 --> 0:05:01.120 face down, half undressed. Someone had he wasn't wearing his pants. 0:05:01.600 --> 0:05:05.919 Someone had taken his pants and laid them across his 0:05:06.120 --> 0:05:10.400 legs and his backside, so that from a given distance 0:05:10.960 --> 0:05:13.640 it looked like he was wearing pants. Yeah, and his 0:05:13.760 --> 0:05:16.719 underwear wasn't there, right, This is a fun fact of that. 0:05:16.760 --> 0:05:19.480 I discovered his underwear was not there, but a pair 0:05:19.520 --> 0:05:22.280 of ladies underwear was very close by to him, like 0:05:22.400 --> 0:05:26.240 Selt panties, very close by. Yes, yeah, so ladies panties. 0:05:26.360 --> 0:05:31.880 No further explained, Yes, give me just a moment. The tease. 0:05:32.560 --> 0:05:36.760 There was also, just so everybody knows, a square of 0:05:37.000 --> 0:05:41.760 carpet laid on his back, which was later discovered to 0:05:42.000 --> 0:05:46.120 have been something that was in his cart. When the 0:05:46.160 --> 0:05:49.159 police arrived, as they will do when someone finds a 0:05:49.200 --> 0:05:53.440 dead body. They searched the area and they found a 0:05:53.480 --> 0:05:58.480 second body, which was twenty eight year old Margaret Chandler 0:05:58.960 --> 0:06:03.240 forty ft away, and she had a pair of men's 0:06:03.440 --> 0:06:07.680 briefs in between her legs. That's true, she did. She did. 0:06:11.279 --> 0:06:14.400 She as Devin was kind of getting too, had some 0:06:14.520 --> 0:06:17.599 strange clothes. She was also partially undressed, but she was 0:06:17.680 --> 0:06:22.080 in a bit of a depression and had flattened beer 0:06:22.240 --> 0:06:27.920 boxes laid over her, which is an unusual place to be, 0:06:28.240 --> 0:06:33.560 especially when you're dead. But it's it's unclear to this 0:06:33.640 --> 0:06:37.599 day who covered the bodies. Was it one person covered 0:06:37.640 --> 0:06:40.480 the other, who did some other person? We don't know 0:06:40.560 --> 0:06:42.320 that well. I think we might get into some of 0:06:42.360 --> 0:06:44.520 that later on, but just to say, on the outset, 0:06:44.960 --> 0:06:48.320 we don't know how they got covered up. There were 0:06:48.360 --> 0:06:51.840 no obvious signs of damage to the body, and by 0:06:51.920 --> 0:06:56.520 that I mean no obvious trauma. They hadn't been, you know, 0:06:56.760 --> 0:07:03.400 sholing in pools of blood exactly. There was um some evidence, 0:07:03.960 --> 0:07:06.200 what's the best way to say this, There was evidence 0:07:06.240 --> 0:07:10.720 that they had been violently ill before they died. There 0:07:10.920 --> 0:07:15.480 was vomit and feces both around the bodies and in 0:07:15.560 --> 0:07:20.520 the area around them. So, yeah, I read that. It's interesting. 0:07:20.560 --> 0:07:23.160 Actually I read that there was a small amount of 0:07:23.240 --> 0:07:27.760 vomit found near Dr Bogel, like twelve ft away or no, 0:07:27.880 --> 0:07:30.800 twelve inches I'm sorry, twelve inches, not twelve ft that's 0:07:30.840 --> 0:07:34.360 really far away. That's projectile. Yeah, so that that's interesting 0:07:34.760 --> 0:07:39.520 that they are also differing accounts of that. Yeah, and 0:07:39.640 --> 0:07:41.600 there's there's some issues with this story because it's been 0:07:41.800 --> 0:07:44.880 it's been rehashed a lot, and will talk about some 0:07:45.000 --> 0:07:48.280 of that. But there was feces everywhere. Yeah, they were 0:07:48.440 --> 0:07:52.880 obvious given and I mean typically when you die, people 0:07:52.960 --> 0:07:55.360 usually let go. Yeah, but it was more than that. 0:07:55.400 --> 0:07:57.880 They were actually running around and carpet in the area. Actually, 0:07:57.920 --> 0:08:00.080 I don't think it was next to their bodies at all. 0:08:00.120 --> 0:08:01.840 There was some down by the river bank and there 0:08:01.920 --> 0:08:06.840 was some a bit of a trail, let's put it 0:08:06.920 --> 0:08:13.680 that way. They marked where they had been. Regardless, it's 0:08:13.760 --> 0:08:17.400 not a nice way to go. But this this led 0:08:17.480 --> 0:08:22.760 the police immediately to suspect that in some way they 0:08:22.840 --> 0:08:27.800 had been poisoned, but they had no idea how or 0:08:27.960 --> 0:08:32.960 what with the official cause of death for both of 0:08:33.000 --> 0:08:40.640 these individuals was listed as acute circulatory failure. But how 0:08:40.840 --> 0:08:46.680 or why was never specified. These two particular people who 0:08:46.880 --> 0:08:49.800 are on a river bank on New Year's Eve New 0:08:49.880 --> 0:08:54.599 Year's Morning together various states of undress, various states of undress, 0:08:55.640 --> 0:08:59.880 were married to different people. She was married to a 0:09:00.080 --> 0:09:03.480 man by the name of Jeffrey Chandler. He his wife. 0:09:03.920 --> 0:09:07.800 Dr Bogel's wife was named Vivian Bogel. And I hope 0:09:07.800 --> 0:09:10.319 I'm saying, I believe it's Bogel. Is how you pronounced it. 0:09:11.080 --> 0:09:14.640 We're going to say it the whole. I hope it's 0:09:14.679 --> 0:09:19.840 not wrong, because otherwise we're gonna look silly. Yeah. But 0:09:19.840 --> 0:09:22.840 but regardless, it's it's pretty obvious that they were there 0:09:23.120 --> 0:09:27.480 for a midnight encounter of as another way to put it, 0:09:28.120 --> 0:09:31.280 what's that look it up on the internet, Joe. Okay, 0:09:31.960 --> 0:09:34.600 let's give a little bit of backstory again. This is 0:09:34.640 --> 0:09:36.280 just kind of the beginning telling of it, and then 0:09:36.280 --> 0:09:40.800 we'll go into some details. Both of these individuals Dr. 0:09:40.840 --> 0:09:45.320 Bogel Miss Chandler had attended a New Year's Eve party 0:09:45.440 --> 0:09:48.199 on the night of their deaths, which was hosted by 0:09:48.240 --> 0:09:53.720 another couple by the name of Ken and Ruth Nash. 0:09:54.120 --> 0:09:57.920 Dr Bogel attended the party on his own. His wife 0:09:57.960 --> 0:10:00.360 stayed home to take care of their three chill written 0:10:01.480 --> 0:10:06.480 Mrs Chandler attended the party with her husband, Jeffrey, though 0:10:06.840 --> 0:10:10.760 he had left the party around eleven thirty that night. 0:10:11.720 --> 0:10:14.120 One odd fact about the party, and I think this 0:10:14.240 --> 0:10:16.640 is the nashest way of trying to mix things up 0:10:16.679 --> 0:10:19.600 and make it interesting. They were super interesting people, those 0:10:20.160 --> 0:10:23.199 they were. But you'll see this when you come across 0:10:23.240 --> 0:10:26.280 this case, especially if you do Google images or image 0:10:26.320 --> 0:10:30.120 searches in general, is that what they told their guess 0:10:30.240 --> 0:10:33.520 was that they wanted them to bring a piece of 0:10:33.760 --> 0:10:36.920 art that they had created themselves to the party to 0:10:37.000 --> 0:10:42.800 display for everybody to talk about. Dr Bogel brought drawing, 0:10:43.080 --> 0:10:47.800 which it's it's really kind of strange and honestly, it's weird. 0:10:47.960 --> 0:10:52.280 Let's just call it weird. It's a disembodied hand in 0:10:52.400 --> 0:10:55.679 one corner and a disembodied foot in the other corner, 0:10:55.800 --> 0:10:58.880 with a woman's face that points in two directions. If 0:10:58.880 --> 0:11:02.000 you ever seen some of those profile images where it 0:11:02.000 --> 0:11:04.959 looks like it's a face looking at you and and 0:11:05.080 --> 0:11:08.400 to the side, that's what it is. It's it's kind 0:11:08.400 --> 0:11:12.440 of got a modernist feel to it, and it made 0:11:12.440 --> 0:11:15.400 me think of the art that you'll see. There's a 0:11:15.480 --> 0:11:20.400 Russian Russian artist by the name of Alexander roj Tinko. 0:11:20.559 --> 0:11:25.880 Is it Rodchenko? I really feel bad for all of 0:11:25.920 --> 0:11:28.120 the art classes I've taken. I suddenly can't remember how 0:11:28.200 --> 0:11:31.880 to pronounce this guy's name. Regardless, it looks like work 0:11:31.960 --> 0:11:34.959 from both of those. So it's it's it's unusual. I 0:11:35.160 --> 0:11:37.480 don't know a better way to describe it. Well, you 0:11:37.480 --> 0:11:40.040 can describe it by the fact that everybody said that 0:11:40.080 --> 0:11:44.760 it was created while he was high on LSD. I mean, 0:11:44.840 --> 0:11:48.040 that's true, right, people people have speculated that that's how 0:11:48.080 --> 0:11:52.440 he made it, and the LSD is relevant to what 0:11:52.480 --> 0:11:56.120 we're talking about, which is the party. Because this story 0:11:56.800 --> 0:12:00.440 gets covered a lot by the media, the newspaper papers 0:12:00.440 --> 0:12:06.880 specifically at the time, it was a huge source of headlines, 0:12:07.720 --> 0:12:13.719 and they were not afraid to insert and exaggerate and 0:12:13.840 --> 0:12:17.400 come up with theories and just proffer them to postulate 0:12:17.440 --> 0:12:20.160 that they were the actual thing. One of the things 0:12:20.160 --> 0:12:23.920 that the news said, or these papers said, I should say, 0:12:24.200 --> 0:12:34.319 is that the party was some kind of LSD fueled orgy. Yeah, yeah, 0:12:34.760 --> 0:12:39.160 it's it's a bit absurd and from everything that I've read, 0:12:39.720 --> 0:12:41.640 and actually what was going on. Yeah, it was kind 0:12:41.679 --> 0:12:45.280 of a lame party really from what I've heard. Yeah, 0:12:45.480 --> 0:12:48.640 well yeah, next I'm telling to bring booze paintings. Well, 0:12:48.720 --> 0:12:52.640 I I remember there was something about Mr Nash saying 0:12:52.679 --> 0:12:55.320 that he didn't give anybody more than two drinks. Yeah, 0:12:55.400 --> 0:12:57.800 he was dispensing quote unquote that's the term they used, 0:12:57.840 --> 0:13:00.600 is he was dispensing the drinks and he would only 0:13:00.600 --> 0:13:03.320 give people, according to at least one account that I read, 0:13:03.640 --> 0:13:07.199 that he would only give people, uh two drinks maximum. 0:13:08.480 --> 0:13:12.840 So a very sober affair. But well, let's get back 0:13:12.880 --> 0:13:14.680 to our our case in point here, which is these 0:13:14.720 --> 0:13:20.439 folks at some point in the nine Chandler not the Nashes, 0:13:20.520 --> 0:13:25.559 thank you. Uh, they were observed outside in the backyard 0:13:25.640 --> 0:13:29.839 together described in and you'll you'll see this in two 0:13:29.880 --> 0:13:36.120 different ways, either in a close conversation or kissing. Not 0:13:36.200 --> 0:13:39.800 really sure. Actually, uh you know they that's not the 0:13:39.800 --> 0:13:44.040 first night they met. It's very true. They Dr Bogel 0:13:44.160 --> 0:13:48.640 and Mrs Chandler had met at a holiday Christmas barbecue. 0:13:48.880 --> 0:13:53.280 It's Australia. Remember it's Australia, so it's summer during Christmas, 0:13:53.920 --> 0:13:56.560 so they were having a Christmas kind of Hawaiian barbecue, 0:13:56.600 --> 0:13:59.000 another one of the co workers of Mr Chandler and 0:13:59.120 --> 0:14:03.160 Dr Bogel. And in fact, it was reported by at 0:14:03.200 --> 0:14:07.840 least one person who will talk about later, that the 0:14:07.960 --> 0:14:13.600 couple Dr Bogel and Mrs Chandler had been seen canoodling 0:14:13.880 --> 0:14:20.040 perhaps that night, even intimate conversation. Well, and I don't 0:14:20.120 --> 0:14:22.360 I think it was actually accusation, was in fact that 0:14:22.360 --> 0:14:24.880 they had been making out or maybe like had a 0:14:25.000 --> 0:14:28.480 low romp in the bushes on that night, even the 0:14:28.520 --> 0:14:30.600 first night that they met. So that's worth mentioning. Is 0:14:30.680 --> 0:14:35.600 it is? It is back to the New Year's Eve party. 0:14:35.880 --> 0:14:40.400 The witness accounts say that the pair left the party 0:14:40.920 --> 0:14:46.440 together between two to three am, and the accounts very 0:14:46.480 --> 0:14:48.800 a little bit on the time, which isn't surprising. It's 0:14:48.920 --> 0:14:52.160 the middle of the night. Uh. It's important to point 0:14:52.160 --> 0:14:55.040 out that Jeffrey Chandler, if you remember earlier I had 0:14:55.040 --> 0:15:00.160 said he had left the party, he came back and 0:15:00.480 --> 0:15:03.080 he because he had gone to a different party to 0:15:03.280 --> 0:15:07.640 have drinks where you could get more than two. But 0:15:07.760 --> 0:15:11.520 he did come back to the party and had a 0:15:11.560 --> 0:15:15.120 conversation with his wife, and when he found out that 0:15:15.160 --> 0:15:19.520 Margaret wanted to not get a ride home from him, 0:15:19.640 --> 0:15:23.320 but from Dr Bogel. It wasn't really all that worried 0:15:23.360 --> 0:15:26.400 about it. He didn't care. The account that I heard 0:15:26.560 --> 0:15:30.880 was that while Mr Chandler was gone, Dr Bogel I 0:15:30.960 --> 0:15:32.560 keep wanting her for them as their first in their 0:15:32.560 --> 0:15:37.640 first names, they called Dr Bogel Gibby, right, and her 0:15:37.720 --> 0:15:40.960 name was Margaret. So given GiB had offered to give 0:15:41.000 --> 0:15:43.360 Margaret a ride home because she didn't really know where 0:15:43.400 --> 0:15:47.760 her husband had gone off to. And apparently when Mr 0:15:47.840 --> 0:15:51.720 Chandler Jeffrey came back, he said, oh, are you ready 0:15:51.720 --> 0:15:53.960 to go, Margaret? And she made no move to go, 0:15:54.480 --> 0:15:57.480 and she was sitting right next to gibb and so 0:15:57.920 --> 0:16:01.160 Jeffrey looked at GiB and said, so will you take 0:16:01.200 --> 0:16:03.880 Margaret home? And GiB just kind of looked at him 0:16:03.880 --> 0:16:06.240 and squinted his eyes for a second and then said right. 0:16:08.680 --> 0:16:11.560 And then Jeffrey laughed like that That was how that happened. 0:16:11.560 --> 0:16:14.640 Was just so weird. And we're going to get into 0:16:14.720 --> 0:16:17.280 some of the stuff about what, you know, the background 0:16:17.320 --> 0:16:22.800 on these folks people. Yeah, but the point is he 0:16:22.880 --> 0:16:25.120 left the party and he went about his way. He 0:16:25.160 --> 0:16:29.680 wasn't concerned that was going to give Margaret right home. Yeah, yeah, 0:16:30.120 --> 0:16:38.360 more than that. This case itself was the biggest case 0:16:38.640 --> 0:16:44.720 to date for Sydney, and the police immediately went to 0:16:44.800 --> 0:16:48.640 work on it. They were reviewing all the evidence. They 0:16:48.640 --> 0:16:51.880 were trying to hunt down any bit of any lead, 0:16:52.040 --> 0:16:55.320 any bit of information that might possibly tell them what 0:16:55.400 --> 0:16:57.640 was going on. A lot of man hours were spent 0:16:57.760 --> 0:17:02.720 on this case. Like we talked about before, it's we 0:17:03.480 --> 0:17:09.960 the newspapers. They went crazy. They polluted this story badly. 0:17:10.200 --> 0:17:11.960 I don't know if either of you did this. I 0:17:12.119 --> 0:17:15.680 read some of the old newspapers. Can find them on online. Yeah, 0:17:16.520 --> 0:17:18.679 I have a favorite website about this case and it 0:17:19.520 --> 0:17:22.440 references at every point what the media was saying, which 0:17:22.480 --> 0:17:27.639 is very helpful and very bad because they just misconstrue 0:17:27.760 --> 0:17:31.400 a lot of things. I mean, it really hasn't changed either. 0:17:31.480 --> 0:17:34.480 They're just about as bad today. And we've had this 0:17:34.520 --> 0:17:39.880 conversation before. But but let's let's go ahead, and first off, 0:17:40.000 --> 0:17:45.320 let's talk about our three main players in this story. Yeah, okay, 0:17:45.520 --> 0:17:53.920 my turn. I'm going to talk about Dr bog Dr bogelh. 0:17:54.480 --> 0:17:56.480 So he's a major player in the mystery, though it 0:17:56.520 --> 0:17:59.000 doesn't actually say very much he was. His full name 0:17:59.000 --> 0:18:04.040 was Gilbert Stanley Bogle. He was born in New Zealand January. 0:18:05.160 --> 0:18:09.000 He studied physics in Britain under a Rhodes scholarship. He 0:18:09.080 --> 0:18:10.879 met and married Actually I don't know if he met 0:18:10.920 --> 0:18:13.800 her in nineteen fifty, but he married Vivian in nineteen fifty. 0:18:14.119 --> 0:18:17.919 They had three children and also a fourth after his death, 0:18:18.280 --> 0:18:21.240 and by accounts he was a good family man, except 0:18:21.440 --> 0:18:27.439 for his philandering, which apparently he did a lot of. Yeah, 0:18:27.600 --> 0:18:29.920 so I guess you can't really say give percent marks 0:18:29.920 --> 0:18:34.480 on that one. But Frank, yeah, but freends said that 0:18:34.520 --> 0:18:39.720 he was interesting, wickedly smart, uh fun um well, rounded 0:18:39.880 --> 0:18:42.440 into a whole lot of different activities and it's kind 0:18:42.440 --> 0:18:44.800 of an awesome guy. Yeah, they thought that. People thought 0:18:44.800 --> 0:18:47.600 it was pretty cool. So he moved back to New 0:18:47.680 --> 0:18:50.320 Zealand in nineteen fifty two with his family and got 0:18:50.359 --> 0:18:53.720 a university job teaching and researching in physics, which was 0:18:53.760 --> 0:18:56.440 his field. And then in nineteen fifty six he took 0:18:56.440 --> 0:18:59.680 a job in Australia with the Commonwealth Scientific and Industrial 0:19:00.080 --> 0:19:03.919 Search Organization, which I'm going to call CIERO from now on, 0:19:04.359 --> 0:19:06.720 the c s i r O, because we're going to 0:19:06.800 --> 0:19:09.560 talk about that a number of times. Yeah, it's much 0:19:09.560 --> 0:19:14.400 easier to do. Yeah. CICERO is Australia's National science agency 0:19:14.480 --> 0:19:17.919 and so they actually cover a lot of different fields 0:19:17.920 --> 0:19:21.000 of science. He got a three year appointment which began 0:19:21.040 --> 0:19:24.000 September fifty six. He started working in the cryogenics group. 0:19:25.280 --> 0:19:27.800 By by about a year later, he had been given 0:19:27.800 --> 0:19:31.439 an indefinite appointment because apparently his his chief of his 0:19:31.520 --> 0:19:34.560 division liked him so much and found him noteworthy. Was 0:19:34.560 --> 0:19:37.840 a quote. He was noteworthy for his mental powers, his 0:19:37.960 --> 0:19:40.919 breath of breadth of knowledge, has capacity for original ideas, 0:19:40.960 --> 0:19:45.520 his driving enthusiasms, range of experimental techniques, and his outstanding 0:19:45.560 --> 0:19:49.520 ability as a lecturer. Now, so this guy really liked Bogel, Yeah, 0:19:49.560 --> 0:19:52.879 he did. His name was Briggs, and he encouraged Bogel 0:19:52.920 --> 0:19:56.960 to resume his research on paramagnetic residence, which I'm not 0:19:57.000 --> 0:19:58.720 really sure that that is, and I was too lazy 0:19:58.760 --> 0:20:02.520 to look it up. It so I'm it's using radio 0:20:02.560 --> 0:20:08.520 waves and magnets as weapons. Is that the mazer? Maybe? Well, 0:20:08.520 --> 0:20:14.200 there there's talk about one point. I think maybe that's 0:20:14.200 --> 0:20:17.920 how you generate the masers are like lasers but with microwaves. Yeah, 0:20:18.119 --> 0:20:21.120 coherent The lasers, as you know, is coherent light, right 0:20:21.880 --> 0:20:23.680 I do. Now, yeah, all a little folks, all a 0:20:23.680 --> 0:20:26.359 little photons are moving in the same direction, whereas the 0:20:26.440 --> 0:20:28.120 life from the light bulb up there in the ceiling 0:20:28.200 --> 0:20:32.600 they're just like you know, stuck on scattering everywhere. The 0:20:32.720 --> 0:20:35.160 lasers they have their coherent light and then they're all 0:20:35.160 --> 0:20:39.720 move in the same direction. So yeah, it's I guess 0:20:39.840 --> 0:20:42.439 the point of the whole thing is that Dr Bogel 0:20:42.560 --> 0:20:45.480 was working on what could be considered or was encouraged 0:20:45.520 --> 0:20:48.520 to work on what could be considered for warfare and 0:20:48.600 --> 0:20:52.840 death rays and weird mad scientists stuff that's freaking cool 0:20:54.359 --> 0:20:58.840 grand side right, you know. Actually, and I checked and 0:20:58.920 --> 0:21:01.480 in an alternate time, and he actually didn't die, and 0:21:01.520 --> 0:21:07.199 he invented the warp drive in ninety seven, and then yeah, 0:21:07.240 --> 0:21:15.879 you're already wanted to get off. Yeah, Briggs, his chief 0:21:16.200 --> 0:21:19.199 recommended him for accelerated advancement. He drew attention to the 0:21:19.240 --> 0:21:21.679 fact that he'd done all this work on the recent 0:21:21.720 --> 0:21:24.920 development of the maser, which is like a lazer, like 0:21:24.960 --> 0:21:29.080 I said, uh, and his uh, his theoretic practical contribution 0:21:29.160 --> 0:21:31.800 to this development of this and apparently was developed for 0:21:31.840 --> 0:21:36.080 use in radio astronomy was apparently pretty large. Boo was 0:21:36.119 --> 0:21:37.879 a smart guy. Actually, I gotta say it's too bad 0:21:37.960 --> 0:21:40.520 he died, you know, because it was a crazy smart guy. 0:21:40.680 --> 0:21:43.840 Oh yeah, it was a really smart guy. Um so 0:21:44.040 --> 0:21:46.280 his chief in nineteen sixty two called him quote the 0:21:46.280 --> 0:21:48.800 most brilliant member of the staff. For a while. He 0:21:48.880 --> 0:21:51.560 must have been off the chart smart. Vogo was offered 0:21:51.560 --> 0:21:55.520 a two year appointment in quantum electronics at Bell Laboratories 0:21:55.520 --> 0:21:58.320 in the US UH and he really wanted to take 0:21:58.359 --> 0:22:00.680 the job. Cicero granted will leave the absence to take 0:22:00.680 --> 0:22:04.000 the job, and apparently he was. People said he was 0:22:04.080 --> 0:22:06.479 very excited about going to work in America at Bell Labs. 0:22:06.600 --> 0:22:08.560 In fact, that was one of the reasons that the 0:22:08.640 --> 0:22:11.760 Nash has had thrown that party, if I remember correctly, 0:22:11.800 --> 0:22:13.720 was that or the barbecue party? One of them was 0:22:13.840 --> 0:22:19.040 part holiday party, part going away party for Yeah, you're right, 0:22:19.080 --> 0:22:21.640 I can't remember. He was to leave within I think 0:22:21.680 --> 0:22:24.040 the month. I think maybe even within a couple of weeks, 0:22:24.080 --> 0:22:27.080 so it was not far it was not far away. Yeah, 0:22:27.240 --> 0:22:29.359 but yeah, I just really kind of sad this guy 0:22:29.440 --> 0:22:34.600 died because yeah, who knows what he would have accomplished. Yeah, 0:22:34.760 --> 0:22:37.240 so you want to talk about miss Chandler Margaret for 0:22:37.240 --> 0:22:39.199 a minute. Yeah, let's talking about Wait a minute, got 0:22:39.240 --> 0:22:41.920 to talk about his hobbies and his turn on. No, 0:22:42.760 --> 0:22:47.399 this isn't a dating site, Mrs Chandler, Margaret Chandler. She 0:22:47.560 --> 0:22:49.400 was twenty years old at the time of her death, 0:22:49.600 --> 0:22:52.680 and there's not a whole lot out there on Mrs Chandler. 0:22:53.080 --> 0:22:56.840 I'll be honest with you. I don't get the impression 0:22:56.840 --> 0:23:00.879 that she was a particularly interesting human being. I just 0:23:00.920 --> 0:23:04.120 don't have that impression. I think guys were interested in her. Yeah, 0:23:04.119 --> 0:23:06.960 I think she was kind of She didn't have a 0:23:07.040 --> 0:23:11.359 whole lot of external pursuits. But I think that you 0:23:11.440 --> 0:23:14.440 also need to keep in mind is that she had 0:23:14.480 --> 0:23:18.760 two small kids at the time. Yeah, she did. She 0:23:18.760 --> 0:23:21.200 She and Mr Chandler had two small children. They were 0:23:21.320 --> 0:23:24.280 aged two and eighteen months, and they had left them 0:23:24.400 --> 0:23:29.119 with them with her with her mother and father in 0:23:29.200 --> 0:23:32.359 law that night. She and her husband shared a love 0:23:32.359 --> 0:23:35.639 of vintage cars and docks and dogs. Like how boring. 0:23:35.840 --> 0:23:40.080 Come on. The weird thing is okay, I don't mean 0:23:40.119 --> 0:23:42.800 interrupt you here, but the weird thing about that is 0:23:43.200 --> 0:23:48.080 she liked vintage cars and docks. Sin's. Maybe that's because 0:23:48.080 --> 0:23:51.000 her husband really liked both of those things, and so 0:23:51.040 --> 0:23:53.240 she went along with it. So there's all these pictures 0:23:53.280 --> 0:23:55.560 of her in vintage cars because he's like, honey, get 0:23:55.560 --> 0:23:58.320 in there, let me take your picture, like you dog 0:23:58.720 --> 0:24:00.960 take your picture. Yeah, it seemed that she was the 0:24:01.040 --> 0:24:03.280 kind of person that didn't have a whole lot of 0:24:03.359 --> 0:24:06.719 going on for herself. She seemed to have been at 0:24:06.800 --> 0:24:11.119 least moderately intelligent. I think she probably was likely quite intelligent. 0:24:11.640 --> 0:24:15.400 She just kind of seemed boring, like she just kind 0:24:15.440 --> 0:24:20.160 of adopted everybody else's stuff. She seemed to be pretty reserved. Yeah. 0:24:20.160 --> 0:24:24.159 They talked about how Mr Chandler was kind of tall 0:24:24.200 --> 0:24:27.280 and outgoing, and he had this huge red beard and 0:24:27.400 --> 0:24:29.760 stood out in a room, and she, by contrast, was 0:24:29.800 --> 0:24:33.600 this kind of meek creature just at his side. It 0:24:33.680 --> 0:24:36.000 seemed that they were on the same kind of page 0:24:36.040 --> 0:24:38.520 about the way that their marriage should go. And that 0:24:38.680 --> 0:24:42.120 is to say that monogamy seemed to not have been 0:24:42.280 --> 0:24:46.680 for either of them. I don't know that she was 0:24:47.000 --> 0:24:50.360 as okay with that as her husband, but she ended 0:24:50.440 --> 0:24:53.280 up going along with She did have more than just 0:24:53.640 --> 0:24:56.360 give as a lover. She had had lovers previous to that, 0:24:57.080 --> 0:25:00.560 so I don't know what that necessarily means, but it 0:25:00.600 --> 0:25:02.800 does implicate to me that she was at least kind 0:25:02.840 --> 0:25:06.360 of okay with it, given it a shot. And apparently 0:25:06.440 --> 0:25:10.560 Jeffrey had been pretty absent from his wife's life for 0:25:10.720 --> 0:25:13.359 most of nineteen sixty two. He chose to spend his 0:25:13.440 --> 0:25:16.960 time kind of more with friends instead of his wife 0:25:17.000 --> 0:25:20.720 and two young sons. Also had a girlfriend named Pam. 0:25:22.359 --> 0:25:25.520 Never have a girlfriend name when you're married. That just 0:25:25.600 --> 0:25:29.159 never goes well. Yeah, Apparently after that holiday barbecue that 0:25:29.200 --> 0:25:32.800 we were talking about earlier, Margaret said to her husband 0:25:32.840 --> 0:25:35.800 that she'd like to sleep with Dr Bogel, and Jeffrey 0:25:35.880 --> 0:25:38.960 later recounted she had quote put it in the same 0:25:39.000 --> 0:25:41.080 sort of way that one might describe a Rolls Royce 0:25:41.119 --> 0:25:45.600 car has like a fleeting interest of having sex with 0:25:45.680 --> 0:25:48.800 this man. Essentially, Yeah, I think that was that was 0:25:48.840 --> 0:25:51.480 sort of the The sense that I got was that 0:25:52.000 --> 0:25:54.680 Mr Chandler said, well, if you'd like to sleep with Gibb, 0:25:54.720 --> 0:25:58.439