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Speaker 1: Hello.

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Speaker 2: And welcome.

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Speaker 1: To my favorite murder.

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Speaker 2: That's Georgia Heartstar?

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Speaker 1: That's Karen Kilkeriff. Real deep for some reason.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. I went all the way down to the basement. Wow.

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Speaker 2: Because I'm going to bring up a case of good

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Speaker 2: times in podcasting.

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Speaker 1: Are you ready? Yes. Crack me a cold one.

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Speaker 2: I'm going to put on my bathing suit and we're

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Speaker 2: going to have a party in the basement.

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Speaker 1: A bathing suit in the basement? Listen. That sounds dirty.

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Speaker 2: It is.

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Speaker 1: I'm not trying to be dirty. I'm not trying to

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Speaker 1: be dirty. Like just gross, not like dirty. Oh, dirty

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Speaker 1: in the basement. Like dusty.

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Speaker 2: Someone needs to clean down here. Like put more clothes on.

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Speaker 2: That's what you think. But once the bathing suit's on

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Speaker 2: and the party begins, you don't care.

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Speaker 1: Is there like a pool in the basement?

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Speaker 2: Not in mine.

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Speaker 1: Okay.

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Speaker 2: Have you ever seen that viral picture of the people

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Speaker 2: who have the above ground pool in a basement?

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Speaker 1: No.

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Speaker 2: It's so funny. They have a light hanging directly over

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Speaker 2: the top.

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Speaker 1: Because you could do that.

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Speaker 2: You can, but you could easily be electrocuted terribly. Oh, that, right.

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Speaker 2: Or have any number of, like, there's a reason they

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Speaker 2: have those rules, I think.

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Speaker 1: Indoor pools have always kind of creeped me out because

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Speaker 1: I'm from the, where am I from?

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Speaker 2: Southern California.

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Speaker 1: Southern California. I was like, east, west, that we don't

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Speaker 1: have them. Right. So you go to like a hotel

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Speaker 1: in the Midwest or someone's house even that has an

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Speaker 1: indoor pool, it's like. This is weird. Why is their

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Speaker 1: carpet so close to fucking water? What are you swingers

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Speaker 1: up to?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, that's what it all is about is this is

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Speaker 2: swingers casserole time. There was a lot of those in

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Speaker 2: Northern California because we're a lot colder up there. But

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Speaker 2: also there's a lot of hippie geodesic domes that would

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Speaker 2: just be out in like a field. And then I

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Speaker 2: remember finding out that my friend to this day, Craig Machado,

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Speaker 2: His family had an indoor in-ground pool.

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Speaker 1: Richie Rich.

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Speaker 2: Inside this geodesic dome that I just.

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Speaker 1: What kind of family owns a geodesic dome?

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Speaker 2: Well, it looked much more like people had it there

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Speaker 2: for farm reasons or for like building reasons.

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Speaker 1: Okay. It's like a weather situation.

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Speaker 2: It was like half. Half dome like on the ground.

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Speaker 1: Okay.

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Speaker 2: As opposed to like I think you're thinking of like

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Speaker 2: it wasn't like up in the air.

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Speaker 1: Okay. Like Joshua Tree, like sound bath style. No, that's

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Speaker 1: what I'm thinking. Did you go to that thing? I've

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Speaker 1: never been to the Integratron.

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Speaker 2: The Integratron.

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Speaker 1: Somehow I've skipped it.

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Speaker 2: We went.

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Speaker 1: How was it? Amazing. Tell people what it is. It's

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Speaker 1: like this geodesic fucking dome.

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Speaker 2: It's finally I get to talk about geodesic domes the

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Speaker 2: way I've been trying to.

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Speaker 1: That's why I said. It's your new podcast. What if

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Speaker 1: that's a.

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Speaker 2: I have a weird thing where I'm trying to flex

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Speaker 2: by knowing what geodesic domes are.

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Speaker 1: And knowing, like, a lot about them. And 1929 was

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Speaker 1: their big year for it.

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Speaker 2: They built this one in Joshua Tree. There's one in

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Speaker 2: Joshua Tree that a man built. Of course a man

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Speaker 2: built it. A man built it. What else are they

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Speaker 2: doing besides building geodesic domes and sound bathing people against

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Speaker 2: their will? So he built it because he had a

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Speaker 2: feeling he maybe would be able to communicate with people.

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Speaker 2: Maybe outer space.

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Speaker 1: Oh.

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Speaker 2: And he disappeared. And all of his studies and writings disappeared.

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Speaker 2: Stop it. Along with him disappearing. And I was going

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Speaker 2: to cover it when we did Pasadena. No. On our tour.

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Speaker 2: But that's kind of the whole story I just told.

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Speaker 1: Like there's nothing more to it.

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Speaker 2: There's a little more to it.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. Not enough. Wow. Okay.

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Speaker 2: And you can go there now and get wonderful sound

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Speaker 2: bathing done.

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Speaker 1: I've never done sound bathing as a sensory gal before.

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Speaker 1: Everything's a little too loud for me. I don't care

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Speaker 1: how loud it is. It's just fucking a little too loud.

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Speaker 1: I don't think I want to do it.

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Speaker 2: So this past 10 years has been living hell for you.

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Speaker 2: It's been really bad. It's so loud.

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Speaker 1: Hold on.

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Speaker 2: What are you doing? I need a tissue.

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Speaker 1: My nose is running just from the thought of it.

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Speaker 1: Do you have one over there? They got lost in

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Speaker 1: the remodel. In the rebrand? Oh, they're in the corner here.

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Speaker 1: Keep them close.

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Speaker 2: I've got a spill coming on.

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Speaker 1: Back to geodesic domes and sound bathing.

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Speaker 2: And we're back.

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Speaker 1: Murderinos, are you into sound bathing?

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Speaker 2: Write our Gmail at soundbath.net. Here's the experience I had

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Speaker 2: with the sound bathing. I knew I had tension to

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Speaker 2: release and, like, this will help me. The first, I

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Speaker 2: would say, seven minutes, pure torture because everyone else is

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Speaker 2: into it. And I'm like, why can't I just be

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Speaker 2: into things the way other people are into things?

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Speaker 1: Yeah. Totally.

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Speaker 2: 20 minutes later, I don't know where I am. Like,

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Speaker 2: it takes over you. Because it's sound waves and it's

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Speaker 2: like doing something to you.

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Speaker 1: It really like bathes your brain.

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Speaker 2: I found that it did. Okay.

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Speaker 1: I'll try it. I really liked it. I'll try it

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Speaker 1: with earplugs.

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Speaker 2: And on your Kindle.

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Speaker 1: That's right. Yeah. Cool. What were we talking about?

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Speaker 2: We were talking about bathing suits in the basement.

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Speaker 1: That's where it started. What else?

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Speaker 2: But rewatching The Sopranos.

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Speaker 1: No, that was you. Yeah.

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Speaker 2: I'm saying.

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Speaker 1: What?

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Speaker 2: I'm answering my own question.

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Speaker 1: I thought you said.

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Speaker 2: You went like this.

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Speaker 1: I thought you said, were you watching The Sopranos? And

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Speaker 1: I was like, no.

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Speaker 2: I'm like, dash re-watching The Sopranos.

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Speaker 1: Re-watching The Sopranos makes more sense than were you watching

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Speaker 1: The Sopranos. Yeah.

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Speaker 2: When I know for a fact I did and you didn't.

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Speaker 2: That's like what a true narcissist would do in conversation.

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Speaker 1: Well, so we're all watching The Sopranos, right?

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Speaker 2: Everybody, right? Oh, you're not?

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Speaker 1: Anyway. Are you going to do the Lizzie Borden biopic,

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Speaker 1: do you think?

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Speaker 2: Sure.

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Speaker 1: I'll do it too. Okay. Let's do it together. Teen.

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Speaker 2: That was placed for half an hour before this recording started.

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Speaker 2: Is it a movie or TV?

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Speaker 1: It's TV. It's, you know, Ryan Murphy monster kind of

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Speaker 1: a thing. Oh. Like that. Some sort of a watch-along? Yeah,

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Speaker 1: like the Dahmer one. Right, right.

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Speaker 2: But I'm saying, should we do a watch-along?

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Speaker 1: Will we? I think by the time this episode comes out,

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Speaker 1: there's going to be... Do they all come out at once?

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Speaker 2: No, I don't think they let Ryan Murphy do that.

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Speaker 1: By the time we come back next week, let's have

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Speaker 1: watched both of the episodes.

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Speaker 2: But let's not talk about it.

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Speaker 1: Let's do not talk about it. That's the rule of

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Speaker 1: our watch game is... Is drop it. It's just like

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Speaker 1: a series of winks and nods.

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Speaker 2: But ixnay on the.

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Speaker 1: Hawkingtay. E-watchray.

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Speaker 2: Hey, Georgia, all episodes of Lizzie Borden are out. So

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Speaker 2: a lot of homework for you two.

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Speaker 1: Okay, this just in. Thanks, Molly. All the episodes. Ryan

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Speaker 1: Murphy has gotten the green light to release all the

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Speaker 1: episodes of Lizzie Borden, whatever it's called.

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Speaker 2: Molly, has it been going or did they do a

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Speaker 2: mass release? I think a big release.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. So we'll watch it next week.

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Speaker 2: Should we get to business?

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Speaker 1: Sure.

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Speaker 2: Because I have nothing else. Oh, I got a manicure.

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Speaker 1: Congratulations. But I'm not trying to brag. Clearly you are.

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Speaker 1: I have that horrible thing where when you get a

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Speaker 1: gel manicure, but like can't bring yourself to go back

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Speaker 1: to the place. So you just have.

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Speaker 2: You're peeling it slowly.

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Speaker 1: No, it just looks terrible. Oh, yeah.

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Speaker 2: But let's see how long it lasts.

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Speaker 1: I know.

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Speaker 2: Could go months.

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Speaker 1: Well, listen, while the world is still turning, we have

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Speaker 1: a podcast network. out there.

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Speaker 2: Let's focus on the fundamentals.

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Speaker 1: That's right. It's called Exactly Right Media. Here are some highlights.

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Speaker 2: So this is very exciting. Our own Roz Hernandez, host

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Speaker 2: of Ghosted by Roz Hernandez, is hitting the road and

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Speaker 2: bringing the paranormal straight to a city near you. So

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Speaker 2: head to rozhernandestour.com for dates and tickets.

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Speaker 1: And if you think that's exciting... Grow up. Because last week,

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Speaker 1: Roz was the guest host on The Bald and the

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Speaker 1: Beautiful with Trixie Mattel. You can watch it on YouTube

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Speaker 1: or listen wherever you get your podcasts. Such a gem,

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Speaker 1: all of them.

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Speaker 2: Truly love that show. Love Trixie. Love Katya so much.

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Speaker 2: This just popped into my head. But one day after

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Speaker 2: I figured out and learned who Trixie and Katya were,

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Speaker 2: however many years ago, I was still on Twitter. It

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Speaker 2: was that long ago. I remember looking on my phone

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Speaker 2: and looking it up and Katya was already following me.

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Speaker 1: Oh, my God.

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Speaker 2: That's one of those like you step into a world

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Speaker 2: where you're like, I didn't know what this world was.

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Speaker 1: This whole time I've been popular and I didn't even

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Speaker 1: know it.

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Speaker 2: Popular to the one person who matters. Now, here's more

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Speaker 2: exciting news. Two of our hottest podcasts, Buried Bones and Disgraceland.

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Speaker 2: We'll be heading out to sea this March for Virgin Voyages'

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Speaker 2: True Crime Voyage.

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Speaker 1: How fun.

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Speaker 2: They're taking it out onto a cruise ship. Have you

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Speaker 2: ever wanted to talk to Paul Holes over a big

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Speaker 2: plate of shrimp at the buffet? Well, now's your chance.

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Speaker 2: Booking is open at virginvoyages.com.

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Speaker 1: That's going to be a riot.

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Speaker 2: That's going to be nutso. Just like a ton of

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Speaker 2: true crime devotees on a very fancy boat.

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Speaker 1: Who's going to know the most about true crime?

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Speaker 2: Paul Holes.

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Speaker 1: And tomorrow on My Favorite Murder, we've got a special

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Speaker 1: Cars.com bonus advice episode where we just fucking give you

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Speaker 1: guys advice. We just give advice. It's coming to your

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Speaker 1: audio feeds and the fan cult members can watch the

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Speaker 1: exclusive video at fancult.supercast.com.

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Speaker 2: I mean, we are sincerely trying to help people.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, we would never steer you wrong on purpose.

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Speaker 2: We're really earnest, so you're going to love it.

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Speaker 1: We are.

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Speaker 2: Then over in Merch Corner, we just premiered our brand new,

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Speaker 2: you're going to love it, MFM animated merch. Check this out.

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Speaker 2: Nick Terry has made us this beautiful design, which is

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Speaker 2: a lineup design of all the characters you've ever loved

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Speaker 2: from a Nick Terry animated video. They're in a lineup.

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Speaker 2: Me and Georgia are bookending everybody.

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Speaker 1: It's so good.

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Speaker 2: Just looking at it, it's just so delightful. So there's

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Speaker 2: this tote. There is a mug, of course, a beautiful

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Speaker 2: large mug for people who really drink coffee like myself.

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Speaker 1: Wrap around, which I like because you don't have to

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Speaker 1: decide which way you're going to drink it from.

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Speaker 2: No, and you can just hold it up and stare

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Speaker 2: at it. I actually— Nicole, I would love to steal

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Speaker 2: this at the end of this record. And then, of course,

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Speaker 2: there's one of them slap koozies.

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Speaker 1: Okay, this is so cool. Someone gave us one of

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Speaker 1: these when we were on tour. I didn't know they

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Speaker 1: existed yet because of my small cans of rosé that

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Speaker 1: I don't drink anymore. But you can just put it

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Speaker 1: on any size can. Yes. Which is so genius.

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Speaker 2: And you get to slap it around.

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Speaker 1: I'm just going to fucking wear this.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, Wonder Woman. So go to TheExactlyRightStore.com to get

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Speaker 2: any and all of these wonderful pieces of merch. And

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Speaker 2: check out the newest MFME Animated episode on And the

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Speaker 2: entire catalog of MFM animated clips over at MyFavoriteMurder.com slash

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Speaker 2: MFM animated.

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Speaker 1: Smash. What if I just. Incredible.

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Speaker 2: Rip that slap koozie in half.

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Speaker 1: Wonder Woman. All right.

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Speaker 2: That's it. We've done it.

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Speaker 1: I know I'm first because mine is a rough one. Okay.

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Speaker 1: And it's one I feel like I've been waiting to

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Speaker 1: do for a long time because, well, let's get into it.

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Speaker 2: Okay. Here, I'm going to tell you this.

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Speaker 1: What?

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Speaker 2: One of our clips came up organically on my TikTok.

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Speaker 1: Uh-huh.

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Speaker 2: Very jarring. Don't love it.

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Speaker 1: You can block us.

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Speaker 2: That's my world.

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Speaker 1: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: And all of a sudden, we're coming into it. Oh, God.

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Speaker 2: But you were the first person in the clip and

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Speaker 2: you had your glasses on. And I was like, those

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Speaker 2: do look cute on her.

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Speaker 1: Yes. They're super cute. You doubted my adorableness and glasses?

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Speaker 2: Well, it's hard to see sometimes from inside the machine.

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Speaker 1: Sure.

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Speaker 2: But I was out there, Joe Lunchpail, watching TikTok like anybody.

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Speaker 2: And I was like, who's this bespectacled gal?

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Speaker 1: How do you feel about being on a Lunchpail?

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Speaker 2: I couldn't be prouder.

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Speaker 1: So let's get all the All that out of the way? Yep,

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Speaker 1: it's out. This story can be grouped in with some

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Speaker 1: of the stories that we've covered in the past, including

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Speaker 1: the 1991 yogurt shop murders in Austin, Texas, and the

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Speaker 1: 1993 Brown's chicken murders in Palatine, Illinois. Those were episodes

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Speaker 1: 70 and 263, respectively. In both those cases, and the

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Speaker 1: one I'm going to tell you today, employees and customers

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Speaker 1: were shot and killed by an unknown gunman, and the

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Speaker 1: cases went cold. Mm-hmm. And while both of those cold

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Speaker 1: cases were finally solved, giving some modicum of relief for

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Speaker 1: the victims' families, the one I'm going to tell you

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Speaker 1: today is still waiting for answers. And that's one of

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Speaker 1: the reasons I haven't covered it is because it totally,

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Speaker 1: I've been expecting it to be solved since we started

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Speaker 1: this podcast. Yeah. This is the story of the Lane

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Speaker 1: Bryant murders.

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Speaker 2: I've never heard of that.

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Speaker 1: The main source for the story is reporting from the

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Speaker 1: Chicago Tribune, and the rest of the sources can be

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Speaker 1: found in the show notes. There's also a documentary about

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Speaker 1: it called Who Killed These Women? So it's February 2nd, 2008,

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Speaker 1: and we're in Tinley Park, which is a Chicago suburb

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Speaker 1: southwest of the city, like 30 miles out of the city.

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Speaker 1: Have you heard of it? No. Tinley Park. So I

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Speaker 1: know when we say, like, it's a suburb of some city,

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Speaker 1: we always kind of imagine, like, if it's a suburb

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Speaker 1: of Detroit or Chicago or Los Angeles, you think to yourself, well,

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Speaker 1: there's got to be a little bit of rough and

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Speaker 1: tumble going on because— Those can be dangerous cities, big

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Speaker 1: cities like that, right? That's not this. That's like if

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Speaker 1: we went to the valley in Encino and it's like

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Speaker 1: it's a suburb of Los Angeles, but it's really completely

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Speaker 1: different from Los Angeles.

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Speaker 2: Just like a nice little town.

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Speaker 1: A nice little town. And it's considered extremely safe. And

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Speaker 1: in fact, a short time after the story takes place,

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Speaker 1: Tinley Park will be named as the best place in

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Speaker 1: America to raise a family by business week. Wow. So

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Speaker 1: that's how safe it is, how unbelievable it was to

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Speaker 1: everyone who lived there that this happened there. So it's

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Speaker 1: about 1040 a.m. on a chilly Saturday morning when a

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Speaker 1: 911 dispatcher takes a call. The caller whispers into the

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Speaker 1: phone and says, quote, Lane Bryant. And the dispatcher asks, quote,

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Speaker 1: where at? And the caller whispers, quote, Tinley Park, hurry.

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Speaker 1: And you can listen to the 911 call.

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Speaker 2: No, I cannot. I know. 911 dispatch operators are some

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Speaker 2: of the bravest people there are.

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Speaker 1: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: Because you are first there for a person in a

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Speaker 2: horrible situation.

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Speaker 1: And every word matters. Like you have to pick up

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Speaker 1: on every single thing that's going on immediately. So the

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Speaker 1: Tinley Park Lane Bryant store is in a shopping center

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Speaker 1: called the Brookside Marketplace. It's a pretty typical like newer

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Speaker 1: suburban neighborhood shopping center populated by an anchor store. It's

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Speaker 1: the Target Superstore. And then some chain businesses. It's like

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Speaker 1: when you're growing up to five and you stop for

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Speaker 1: coffee at one of the like Yeah, yeah. You know

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Speaker 1: what I mean? Just beige.

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Speaker 2: Like a big, fancy strip mall kind of. Yeah, yeah.

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Speaker 1: In fact, Lane Bryant is next door to a Sally's Beauty. Like,

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Speaker 1: it's just so normal. And so it just so happens

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Speaker 1: that a police officer is at the Target when the

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Speaker 1: 911 call comes in. So within two minutes, police arrive

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Speaker 1: at the store. Wow. That's how quick it is. What

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Speaker 1: he finds is horrifying. Six women, all bound and gagged

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Speaker 1: and all shot dead. execution style. Miraculously, one woman turned

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Speaker 1: her head as she was shot and then played dead

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Speaker 1: as the perp fled. So her identity has never been

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Speaker 1: made public. To protect her safety and her privacy, what

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Speaker 1: we know is she is a 33-year-old employee of the store.

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Speaker 1: And from her account, we get a full timeline of

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Speaker 1: what happened. So the 911 caller turns out to have

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Speaker 1: been the store manager. She is a 42-year-old woman named

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Speaker 1: Rhoda McFarland. And so Rhoda and the survivor opened the

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Speaker 1: store together that day at 10 a.m. And Rhoda, the manager,

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Speaker 1: wasn't supposed to be working that day. But she had

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Speaker 1: come in to help because another employee, it was her birthday,

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Speaker 1: and she gave her the day off. And that was

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Speaker 1: the kind of person she was. So she came in

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Speaker 1: to help. because she knew it would be busy. They

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Speaker 1: were running a clearance sale. Rhoda had been a nurse

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Speaker 1: practitioner in the Air Force and a minister and ran

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Speaker 1: a self-esteem program for girls called Princess Unveiled. She had

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Speaker 1: recently gotten engaged. She had initially started working at the

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Speaker 1: store to make ends meet while she was between jobs,

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Speaker 1: but she loved the job so much she stayed. And

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Speaker 1: I mean, every single person who talks about her talks

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Speaker 1: about what an incredible, you know, light up the room woman,

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Speaker 1: take the shirt off her back for anyone kind of

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Speaker 1: person she was. So shortly after Rhoda and the other

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Speaker 1: employee opened the store, one or two of the other

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Speaker 1: women came into the store as well. They're shopping. It's

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Speaker 1: not totally clear on which women came in what order,

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Speaker 1: but at some point a man enters the store and

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Speaker 1: starts talking to Rhoda and the woman who's the survivor.

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Speaker 1: And it seems as though both women had the impression

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Speaker 1: that he was a delivery man. He had come in

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Speaker 1: with some paperwork, and said he had a delivery for them.

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Speaker 1: But Rhoda was like, there's no delivery scheduled today. And

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Speaker 1: also they knew the delivery people. They were pretty much

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Speaker 1: the same people every time. So that was strange. But

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Speaker 1: it sounds like Rhoda wasn't particularly concerned about this man

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Speaker 1: and really believed he was who he said he was

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Speaker 1: because she called a few other nearby Lane Bryant stores

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Speaker 1: to see if their store had received their delivery by mistake.

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Speaker 1: And so who knows what's going on in her mind

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Speaker 1: at the time. It's, you know, we only have one

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Speaker 1: person's panicked retelling of the story, you know. So after

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Speaker 1: about 15 minutes of this, the man suddenly pulls out a.

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Speaker 1: 40 caliber Glock handgun and says that he's robbing the store.

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Speaker 1: He empties the register, which probably only had a couple

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Speaker 1: hundred bucks in it. They had just opened. Yeah. And

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Speaker 1: also it's 2008. No one's using cash anymore, really. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: And has the two employees and the two customers hand

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Speaker 1: over all their jewelry to him. And then he brings

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Speaker 1: the four women to the back of the store and

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Speaker 1: and has them lie down on the floor, binds their

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Speaker 1: hands together with duct tape that I believe he brought in.

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Speaker 1: He also gropes at least one of the women at

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Speaker 1: this point. He also gets underwear from inside the store

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Speaker 1: and puts it over their heads to prevent them being

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Speaker 1: able to see, which he had been there already for

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Speaker 1: like 15 minutes talking to them. It's just such an

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Speaker 1: odd thing to do. At this point, two more customers

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Speaker 1: come in the store, and the man robs each of

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Speaker 1: them at gunpoint, demanding that they hand over their money

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Speaker 1: and valuables. And according to the survivor, the man just

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Speaker 1: became more and more agitated as time went on. And

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Speaker 1: it's such an odd case, and we can get into it,

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Speaker 1: that it doesn't seem like a typical robbery in any way.

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Speaker 1: He didn't lock the door. There's only a couple hundred bucks.

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Speaker 1: He took the money and jewelry from the victims and

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Speaker 1: then didn't leave. It just doesn't. It makes sense. And

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Speaker 1: then why Elaine Bryant to begin with? There's like so

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Speaker 1: many other shops in the area.

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Speaker 2: But also if he's groping women, if he's putting underwear

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Speaker 2: on people, there's a fetish aspect potentially. I don't know.

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Speaker 2: But that to me feels like part of it where

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Speaker 2: it's disorganized because it may be like inspired by something

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Speaker 2: that he isn't totally in control of.

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Speaker 1: Right. It's like misleading.

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Speaker 2: And he probably was never there to rob anybody.

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Speaker 1: Totally. Totally. So according to the survivor, the man becomes

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Speaker 1: more and more agitated as time goes on. And it

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Speaker 1: seems like his plan had been just to rob customers

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Speaker 1: as they came in the store. But he was becoming

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Speaker 1: frustrated when he realized this was not going to get

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Speaker 1: him a lot of money and valuables. So after about

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Speaker 1: 40 minutes of watching the man become more and more erratic,

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Speaker 1: Rhoda makes that 911 phone call that we heard about

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Speaker 1: in the beginning. Wow. So brave of her to do that.

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Speaker 1: And I think that just speaks to her personality so

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Speaker 1: much is that she put herself at peril and to

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Speaker 1: try to help these girls. And it sounds like she

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Speaker 1: could have run out the exit, but she wouldn't have

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Speaker 1: left them behind. So she stayed to call 911. The

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Speaker 1: line goes dead abruptly, leading investigators to believe that the

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Speaker 1: man had then discovered her making the call, panicked, and

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Speaker 1: then he shoots all the women. So in addition to Rhoda,

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00:19:31,540 --> 00:19:35,780
Speaker 1: the other victims are Sarah Zufransky, who is just 22

444
00:19:35,780 --> 00:19:39,439
Speaker 1: years old. She had just graduated from Northern Illinois University.

445
00:19:39,720 --> 00:19:42,669
Speaker 1: She had been shopping for work clothes, having recently started

446
00:19:42,730 --> 00:19:46,230
Speaker 1: her first full-time job. Sarah worked at an insurance company

447
00:19:46,410 --> 00:19:49,710
Speaker 1: where her dad, Ted, also worked, and the two would

448
00:19:49,750 --> 00:19:53,060
Speaker 1: commute together on the train every day. She loved board

449
00:19:53,100 --> 00:19:58,140
Speaker 1: games like Cranium and the Bears trivia contests. There's also

450
00:19:58,260 --> 00:20:02,699
Speaker 1: Carrie Hudak-Chuzo, who's 33, and she's a social worker. Her

451
00:20:02,760 --> 00:20:06,760
Speaker 1: family and husband describe her as bubbly and opinionated. And

452
00:20:06,780 --> 00:20:10,020
Speaker 1: she had been looking forward excitedly to becoming an aunt.

453
00:20:10,660 --> 00:20:14,120
Speaker 1: At every opportunity, she would bug her brother and sister-in-law,

454
00:20:14,180 --> 00:20:16,570
Speaker 1: who she was best friends with, to name the baby

455
00:20:16,680 --> 00:20:20,750
Speaker 1: after her. Carrie's career was dedicated to working with at-risk

456
00:20:20,869 --> 00:20:24,109
Speaker 1: children and teenagers, and she volunteered with additional programs in

457
00:20:24,150 --> 00:20:28,070
Speaker 1: her spare time. Wow. Connie Woolfolk is 37 and works

458
00:20:28,130 --> 00:20:31,300
Speaker 1: as a mortgage lender. She had founded an organization called

459
00:20:31,320 --> 00:20:34,640
Speaker 1: the Unity Coalition, meant to celebrate diversity and fight prejudice

460
00:20:34,700 --> 00:20:38,220
Speaker 1: in Chicago's southern suburbs. She had been the president of

461
00:20:38,240 --> 00:20:41,540
Speaker 1: the Illinois chapter of the National Coalition Building Institute, and

462
00:20:41,560 --> 00:20:44,860
Speaker 1: she had two sons, one who's 16 and one who's 10,

463
00:20:44,859 --> 00:20:47,120
Speaker 1: who had spina bifida and depended on his mom for

464
00:20:47,140 --> 00:20:50,050
Speaker 1: a lot of daily care. She was going to meet

465
00:20:50,109 --> 00:20:52,470
Speaker 1: friends for a rare girls' night out and wanted to

466
00:20:52,490 --> 00:20:54,250
Speaker 1: find a new outfit to wear, and that's what she

467
00:20:54,270 --> 00:20:57,240
Speaker 1: was doing at Lane Bryant. I know. And it's believed

468
00:20:57,320 --> 00:21:02,220
Speaker 1: Connie fought back because she had defensive wounds, which is

469
00:21:02,290 --> 00:21:05,670
Speaker 1: one of the ways that they got DNA from the attacker. Wow.

470
00:21:05,890 --> 00:21:08,609
Speaker 1: I know. Jenny Bishop is 34. She had been an

471
00:21:08,730 --> 00:21:12,190
Speaker 1: ICU nurse at South Bend Memorial Hospital in South Bend, Indiana,

472
00:21:12,350 --> 00:21:14,949
Speaker 1: and had only been in town with her husband, who

473
00:21:14,970 --> 00:21:19,260
Speaker 1: had been attending a conference nearby. The two have three children.

474
00:21:19,280 --> 00:21:22,240
Speaker 1: The youngest is a baby, about six months old, and

475
00:21:22,280 --> 00:21:25,750
Speaker 1: the other two are five and seven. Wow. And so

476
00:21:25,770 --> 00:21:30,890
Speaker 1: here's a photo of the five victims. Hmm. I mean,

477
00:21:30,970 --> 00:21:33,899
Speaker 1: it's just so hard to imagine the wrong place at

478
00:21:33,960 --> 00:21:37,380
Speaker 1: the wrong time. But that's not enough of an explanation to, like,

479
00:21:37,480 --> 00:21:40,600
Speaker 1: make me be able to fall asleep at night, you know? Right.

480
00:21:40,619 --> 00:21:44,340
Speaker 1: These wonderful women who had so much to give, just

481
00:21:44,380 --> 00:21:45,609
Speaker 1: senselessly murdered.

482
00:21:46,100 --> 00:21:50,160
Speaker 2: And held captive before. 40 minutes is such a long

483
00:21:50,220 --> 00:21:54,060
Speaker 2: time to be like, have your life threatened with a gun. Totally. And,

484
00:21:54,080 --> 00:21:54,639
Speaker 2: you know.

485
00:21:54,660 --> 00:21:56,540
Speaker 1: Just be in fear. Yeah. Yeah. It's just.

486
00:21:56,920 --> 00:22:00,280
Speaker 2: And such an odd, that idea that he was keeping

487
00:22:00,300 --> 00:22:02,460
Speaker 2: the store open and letting people come in is such

488
00:22:02,540 --> 00:22:04,580
Speaker 2: a sign of a damaged mind. Right.

489
00:22:04,800 --> 00:22:06,940
Speaker 1: I mean, for the investigators, it's to them said that

490
00:22:06,960 --> 00:22:10,540
Speaker 1: this is an inexperienced person. robber. It maybe had more

491
00:22:10,560 --> 00:22:13,600
Speaker 1: to do with drugs or something like that. And they

492
00:22:13,619 --> 00:22:16,639
Speaker 1: looked into every single person who was there or who

493
00:22:16,680 --> 00:22:20,350
Speaker 1: was supposed to be there, other employees, and they could

494
00:22:20,369 --> 00:22:23,530
Speaker 1: just find no ties to this person whatsoever. And a

495
00:22:23,790 --> 00:22:26,070
Speaker 1: lot of the theories are like, this person had this

496
00:22:26,109 --> 00:22:27,669
Speaker 1: in their background, that person, but I don't even want

497
00:22:27,690 --> 00:22:31,210
Speaker 1: to get into them because there's no leads that are correct.

498
00:22:31,330 --> 00:22:34,480
Speaker 1: And that's just speculation and victim blaming. And we don't

499
00:22:34,500 --> 00:22:36,510
Speaker 1: want to do that. Right, right. Yeah. Yeah. And then

500
00:22:36,530 --> 00:22:40,280
Speaker 1: here's the Lane Bryant crime scene from outside. It reminds

501
00:22:40,320 --> 00:22:42,239
Speaker 1: me so much of the yogurt shop murders where it's

502
00:22:42,300 --> 00:22:45,840
Speaker 1: just such a normal fucking place that you just go

503
00:22:46,340 --> 00:22:51,389
Speaker 1: after work or whenever. And it becomes this just horrible scene.

504
00:22:54,290 --> 00:22:56,929
Speaker 1: So the first officer on the scene, right after the

505
00:22:57,170 --> 00:22:59,290
Speaker 1: line went dead, as I said, he had been at

506
00:22:59,330 --> 00:23:02,419
Speaker 1: the Target. And then more officers show up quickly after that.

507
00:23:02,760 --> 00:23:05,280
Speaker 1: But the shooter is gone. So he was there within

508
00:23:05,520 --> 00:23:08,560
Speaker 1: a minute or two, let's say. And there's no trace

509
00:23:08,600 --> 00:23:10,460
Speaker 1: of the shooter. And it's a Saturday morning, so it's

510
00:23:10,480 --> 00:23:14,260
Speaker 1: probably not that crowded there. Just gone. So actually, we

511
00:23:14,300 --> 00:23:18,340
Speaker 1: have this incredible resource of our Gmail of people writing

512
00:23:18,380 --> 00:23:20,960
Speaker 1: us in throughout the years. We got an email in

513
00:23:20,960 --> 00:23:24,470
Speaker 1: 2017 from a woman named Dana, who it turns out

514
00:23:25,090 --> 00:23:26,950
Speaker 1: worked at the Sally next door.

515
00:23:26,970 --> 00:23:27,890
Speaker 2: Oh, wow.

516
00:23:28,150 --> 00:23:31,369
Speaker 1: To Lane Bryant and was there that morning and emailed us.

517
00:23:32,040 --> 00:23:34,800
Speaker 1: and said, I work at a retail chain in Tinley Park, Illinois.

518
00:23:34,900 --> 00:23:37,119
Speaker 1: It's a newer plaza with very little stores. On the

519
00:23:37,160 --> 00:23:39,800
Speaker 1: strip of the side we were on, just us to

520
00:23:39,980 --> 00:23:42,460
Speaker 1: one other store, a few vacancies, and past that a

521
00:23:42,480 --> 00:23:44,879
Speaker 1: couple more. One Saturday morning, I was in the back

522
00:23:44,940 --> 00:23:46,950
Speaker 1: working at my desk when I heard a few quick

523
00:23:47,230 --> 00:23:51,230
Speaker 1: clinking noises. Sounded like someone dropped a metal display next door.

524
00:23:51,869 --> 00:23:53,810
Speaker 1: It made me look up for my papers. I looked

525
00:23:53,850 --> 00:23:55,449
Speaker 1: behind me to see if my boss heard it, but

526
00:23:55,550 --> 00:23:57,370
Speaker 1: she was on the phone and did not. I looked

527
00:23:57,410 --> 00:24:00,950
Speaker 1: back down, not thinking anything of it. Five minutes later,

528
00:24:01,230 --> 00:24:04,410
Speaker 1: coming from the front of the store, hello, hello, anybody here?

529
00:24:05,290 --> 00:24:07,390
Speaker 1: Sometimes customers get cranky when they don't see a sales

530
00:24:07,430 --> 00:24:10,250
Speaker 1: associate immediately. Assuming it was just that, I walked to

531
00:24:10,270 --> 00:24:13,410
Speaker 1: the front and said, be right there. Much to my surprise,

532
00:24:13,470 --> 00:24:16,600
Speaker 1: it was a frazzled police officer. He immediately yells at

533
00:24:16,619 --> 00:24:18,820
Speaker 1: me to lock the doors and asks if I had

534
00:24:18,900 --> 00:24:22,320
Speaker 1: seen anyone. I told him, no, we just opened and

535
00:24:22,359 --> 00:24:25,000
Speaker 1: it's just me and my boss here. He runs out yelling,

536
00:24:25,240 --> 00:24:28,350
Speaker 1: lock the door. A minute later, still frazzled, he comes

537
00:24:28,410 --> 00:24:31,169
Speaker 1: back and starts asking me questions. Who came into the

538
00:24:31,210 --> 00:24:34,650
Speaker 1: store today? Did you notice anything strange? And then said,

539
00:24:34,850 --> 00:24:38,790
Speaker 1: all caps, it's a bloodbath over there, pointing next door.

540
00:24:39,050 --> 00:24:42,350
Speaker 1: Stay inside and do not go anywhere. And that's from Dana.

541
00:24:42,750 --> 00:24:44,610
Speaker 1: That's just part of the email, but there's a lot

542
00:24:44,650 --> 00:24:47,630
Speaker 1: more about what happened and how, you know, horrifying it was,

543
00:24:47,680 --> 00:24:48,480
Speaker 1: I'm sure, for Dana.

544
00:24:48,820 --> 00:24:53,810
Speaker 2: Dana was, like, on the scene, like, witnessing without realizing it.

545
00:24:54,000 --> 00:24:54,380
Speaker 1: Yeah.

546
00:24:54,400 --> 00:24:55,810
Speaker 2: That's... So scary.

547
00:24:56,070 --> 00:24:59,050
Speaker 1: And if you chose one store over, that's where she was.

548
00:24:59,109 --> 00:25:02,430
Speaker 1: I mean, it's incredible. And she was in the documentary.

549
00:25:02,750 --> 00:25:05,290
Speaker 1: It's called Who Killed These Women? The Tinley Park Five.

550
00:25:06,080 --> 00:25:08,719
Speaker 1: Got a little bit of a corny reenactment opening, but

551
00:25:08,740 --> 00:25:11,140
Speaker 1: then there's some good interviews in it. So police lock

552
00:25:11,160 --> 00:25:14,420
Speaker 1: down the shopping center and go through every store and

553
00:25:14,480 --> 00:25:16,679
Speaker 1: stop cars on the way out. But this turns up

554
00:25:16,960 --> 00:25:20,350
Speaker 1: zero leads ever. Investigators believe the shooter might have managed

555
00:25:20,400 --> 00:25:24,090
Speaker 1: to get to the I-80, which is right by. It's

556
00:25:24,230 --> 00:25:26,450
Speaker 1: so close, meaning you could get on it and get

557
00:25:26,510 --> 00:25:29,689
Speaker 1: out of town very quickly. And there's no surveillance in

558
00:25:29,710 --> 00:25:32,570
Speaker 1: the area at the time. It's like 2008. So it's

559
00:25:32,690 --> 00:25:34,730
Speaker 1: kind of seems like on the cusp of that. I

560
00:25:35,330 --> 00:25:37,969
Speaker 1: know a lot of stores had like security cameras that

561
00:25:37,990 --> 00:25:42,189
Speaker 1: weren't hooked up to anything just to scare people off shoplifting. Right.

562
00:25:42,450 --> 00:25:45,659
Speaker 1: But Lane Bryant didn't have any security cameras. There was

563
00:25:45,700 --> 00:25:47,970
Speaker 1: a camera pointed at the shopping center from across the

564
00:25:47,990 --> 00:25:52,670
Speaker 1: busy road, and this footage captured one SUV and one sedan,

565
00:25:53,230 --> 00:25:55,780
Speaker 1: which both pulled in front of the store while the

566
00:25:55,820 --> 00:26:00,020
Speaker 1: assailant was already inside and left at around 1047, right

567
00:26:00,060 --> 00:26:03,660
Speaker 1: around when the shooter would have fled, which leads investigators

568
00:26:03,700 --> 00:26:05,800
Speaker 1: to think there's an accomplice, but that might just be

569
00:26:05,840 --> 00:26:09,250
Speaker 1: a red herring. Hmm. So the footage of those vehicles

570
00:26:09,310 --> 00:26:11,810
Speaker 1: did not capture license plate and the exact vehicles have

571
00:26:11,850 --> 00:26:14,129
Speaker 1: never been tracked down. So it's just he could have

572
00:26:14,150 --> 00:26:15,629
Speaker 1: gone out the back door and just ran into the

573
00:26:15,670 --> 00:26:18,940
Speaker 1: fields or actually had a car back there. Yeah. Because

574
00:26:18,980 --> 00:26:20,040
Speaker 1: we don't know which way he fled.

575
00:26:20,520 --> 00:26:23,879
Speaker 2: Of all the disorganization of the rest of the attack.

576
00:26:23,900 --> 00:26:24,200
Speaker 1: Right.

577
00:26:24,600 --> 00:26:27,340
Speaker 2: Then he just gets away clean and scot-free. Like, why

578
00:26:27,380 --> 00:26:29,119
Speaker 2: can't that part also be screwed up?

579
00:26:29,220 --> 00:26:32,200
Speaker 1: Yeah. They have everything they need, including DNA and just

580
00:26:32,580 --> 00:26:36,010
Speaker 1: no suspect. Right. So frustrating. So frustrating. So investigators also

581
00:26:36,050 --> 00:26:38,629
Speaker 1: have DNA from a coffee cup that he may have

582
00:26:38,650 --> 00:26:42,369
Speaker 1: left behind and samples from the crime scene. But it

583
00:26:42,410 --> 00:26:45,129
Speaker 1: has either not matched any profiles in any database or

584
00:26:45,150 --> 00:26:46,930
Speaker 1: the sample was not good enough to use. I think

585
00:26:46,950 --> 00:26:49,530
Speaker 1: they have it. The killer also left shell casings at

586
00:26:49,550 --> 00:26:52,750
Speaker 1: the scene. So the survivor is actually able to give

587
00:26:52,790 --> 00:26:55,460
Speaker 1: police a detailed description of what this man looked like.

588
00:26:55,520 --> 00:26:58,780
Speaker 1: And you imagine if she hadn't made it. how much

589
00:26:59,080 --> 00:27:01,619
Speaker 1: less you'd have to go on. And the fact that

590
00:27:01,680 --> 00:27:03,160
Speaker 1: she was able to do this and it still didn't

591
00:27:03,200 --> 00:27:05,159
Speaker 1: lead anything has to just feel so awful for her.

592
00:27:05,700 --> 00:27:07,970
Speaker 1: The description is used to make a sketch, which is

593
00:27:08,030 --> 00:27:11,189
Speaker 1: widely shown on the news. The survivor says he was

594
00:27:11,230 --> 00:27:14,169
Speaker 1: between 5'9 and 6'2. He looked to be in his

595
00:27:14,210 --> 00:27:18,330
Speaker 1: mid-20s to mid-30s and had a broad, solid build. She

596
00:27:18,369 --> 00:27:20,990
Speaker 1: says he was black with a medium, dark skin tone,

597
00:27:21,109 --> 00:27:25,010
Speaker 1: and his hair was styled in wide cornrows, about five

598
00:27:25,050 --> 00:27:28,140
Speaker 1: braids total. which came to about his chin. And most

599
00:27:28,180 --> 00:27:30,340
Speaker 1: of the braids were straight back towards his neck, but

600
00:27:30,440 --> 00:27:33,160
Speaker 1: one was loose, hanging by his cheek with four light

601
00:27:33,220 --> 00:27:35,540
Speaker 1: green beads at the end. Like she was able to

602
00:27:35,580 --> 00:27:36,760
Speaker 1: remember to that level.

603
00:27:37,420 --> 00:27:37,960
Speaker 2: Amazing.

604
00:27:38,040 --> 00:27:40,379
Speaker 1: Yeah. He also wore a gray beanie and he was

605
00:27:40,420 --> 00:27:43,619
Speaker 1: wearing dark jeans with an embroidered letter G on the back,

606
00:27:43,960 --> 00:27:47,449
Speaker 1: which was a brand insignia. And he was well-groomed and

607
00:27:47,490 --> 00:27:50,010
Speaker 1: his fingernails appeared to be manicured. So here's a photo

608
00:27:50,030 --> 00:27:52,629
Speaker 1: of the 3D sketch that later came out based on

609
00:27:52,670 --> 00:27:54,969
Speaker 1: the regular sketch. It's pretty generic.

610
00:27:54,990 --> 00:27:55,230
Speaker 2: Yeah.

611
00:27:55,650 --> 00:27:58,930
Speaker 1: But you've got to imagine someone would recognize their brother

612
00:27:58,970 --> 00:28:01,750
Speaker 1: or their friend or, you know. In addition to the sketch,

613
00:28:02,190 --> 00:28:06,189
Speaker 1: the audio from the 911 call is released because in

614
00:28:06,230 --> 00:28:09,109
Speaker 1: it you can faintly hear the shooter's voice in the

615
00:28:09,150 --> 00:28:12,260
Speaker 1: background as he gets more and more agitated. And he's

616
00:28:12,320 --> 00:28:15,100
Speaker 1: yelling at the women or something. You know, he's yelling

617
00:28:15,130 --> 00:28:17,619
Speaker 1: at someone. It's really hard to make out exactly what

618
00:28:17,660 --> 00:28:20,080
Speaker 1: he's saying, but they think it includes the words, I'm

619
00:28:20,160 --> 00:28:25,000
Speaker 1: losing it and foolishness. I heard the word bullshit. They

620
00:28:25,020 --> 00:28:26,740
Speaker 1: also think there's something about, like, you want to be

621
00:28:26,780 --> 00:28:29,719
Speaker 1: a hero. But it's really, really hard to tell what

622
00:28:29,760 --> 00:28:31,859
Speaker 1: the voice is saying. But it's clear there's someone yelling

623
00:28:31,900 --> 00:28:33,960
Speaker 1: in it and maybe someone will recognize his voice. And

624
00:28:33,980 --> 00:28:37,340
Speaker 1: that's why they released it. And remember, the Brown's Chicken Massacre,

625
00:28:37,359 --> 00:28:40,760
Speaker 1: that was solved because the ex-girlfriend of one of the

626
00:28:40,880 --> 00:28:41,920
Speaker 1: killers came forward.

627
00:28:42,030 --> 00:28:42,220
Speaker 2: Yeah.

628
00:28:42,400 --> 00:28:44,410
Speaker 1: So why not in this one, too?

629
00:28:44,490 --> 00:28:48,670
Speaker 2: The people who maybe at the time of the crime

630
00:28:49,230 --> 00:28:52,810
Speaker 2: felt like they didn't have the power or the ability

631
00:28:52,930 --> 00:28:53,750
Speaker 2: to say anything.

632
00:28:53,790 --> 00:28:54,030
Speaker 1: Right.

633
00:28:54,400 --> 00:28:58,180
Speaker 2: And then with a little time, the distance changes.

634
00:28:58,640 --> 00:29:02,739
Speaker 1: Shortly after the murders, a $ 55, 000 reward, primarily sponsored by

635
00:29:02,780 --> 00:29:06,350
Speaker 1: Elaine Bryant's parent company, is offered for information leading to

636
00:29:06,370 --> 00:29:08,870
Speaker 1: the gunman's arrest. And Elaine Bryant also offered to pay

637
00:29:08,910 --> 00:29:12,970
Speaker 1: for the victim's funerals. There aren't really many major theories

638
00:29:12,990 --> 00:29:16,130
Speaker 1: aside from like a botched robbery and just random speculation,

639
00:29:16,150 --> 00:29:18,709
Speaker 1: as I said, about this having something to do with

640
00:29:18,790 --> 00:29:21,150
Speaker 1: someone's private life, which I'm just not even going to

641
00:29:21,170 --> 00:29:24,230
Speaker 1: get into. A few days after the murders, the survivor,

642
00:29:24,280 --> 00:29:26,880
Speaker 1: can you imagine? And they've never given out her name.

643
00:29:26,920 --> 00:29:28,600
Speaker 1: I think there's a first name, but I don't know

644
00:29:28,620 --> 00:29:31,000
Speaker 1: if it's real or not. The investigators weren't going to

645
00:29:31,120 --> 00:29:34,420
Speaker 1: say that there was a survivor, but someone leaked that

646
00:29:34,440 --> 00:29:37,530
Speaker 1: there was a sixth woman who survived. So they had

647
00:29:37,550 --> 00:29:39,950
Speaker 1: to just keep her identity under wraps. A few days

648
00:29:40,020 --> 00:29:43,000
Speaker 1: after the murders, the survivor issues a statement addressed to

649
00:29:43,040 --> 00:29:45,800
Speaker 1: the victim's loved ones, calling the women who died, quote,

650
00:29:45,880 --> 00:29:49,080
Speaker 1: five of the bravest women I have ever met, end quote.

651
00:29:49,570 --> 00:29:52,610
Speaker 1: She also says, quote, please know that during the unfathomable

652
00:29:52,790 --> 00:29:56,090
Speaker 1: events of that day, their thoughts were focused on you

653
00:29:56,290 --> 00:29:59,610
Speaker 1: and coming home. My heart aches that they were unable

654
00:29:59,690 --> 00:30:02,750
Speaker 1: to do so, end quote. In the 18 years since

655
00:30:02,790 --> 00:30:05,530
Speaker 1: the murders, there have been several renewed efforts to solve

656
00:30:05,550 --> 00:30:08,520
Speaker 1: the case. All of the victims' families still deeply believe

657
00:30:08,540 --> 00:30:11,460
Speaker 1: that it can be solved. The Tinley Police maintains a

658
00:30:11,500 --> 00:30:15,320
Speaker 1: multi-agency task force working the case and say they've investigated

659
00:30:15,380 --> 00:30:18,320
Speaker 1: over 7,000 tips over the years. Wow.

660
00:30:18,660 --> 00:30:20,120
Speaker 2: That's a huge number.

661
00:30:20,140 --> 00:30:22,750
Speaker 1: Right. And it's such a small town, too. I'm sure

662
00:30:22,790 --> 00:30:26,219
Speaker 1: people are so wanting to help, but... They also took

663
00:30:26,240 --> 00:30:29,700
Speaker 1: the step of consulting the VDOC Society in 2016, which

664
00:30:29,790 --> 00:30:34,570
Speaker 1: is the nonprofit Philadelphia-based organization of forensic experts, profilers, and

665
00:30:34,630 --> 00:30:38,190
Speaker 1: criminologists that help law enforcement solve difficult cold case homicides.

666
00:30:38,750 --> 00:30:41,190
Speaker 1: But nothing yet has come out of that. And the

667
00:30:41,230 --> 00:30:45,740
Speaker 1: reward money has been raised to $ 100, 000. This past February,

668
00:30:45,800 --> 00:30:50,700
Speaker 1: Kerry Hudak Chuzo's brother, Mike Hudak, said, quote, this individual

669
00:30:50,780 --> 00:30:53,060
Speaker 1: is not going to be caught until someone speaks up

670
00:30:53,200 --> 00:30:56,720
Speaker 1: or identifies who he is, end quote. Carrie was the

671
00:30:56,860 --> 00:30:59,219
Speaker 1: one who had been lobbying for her brother and sister-in-law

672
00:30:59,280 --> 00:31:02,930
Speaker 1: to name their new baby after her. The baby was born,

673
00:31:02,950 --> 00:31:06,260
Speaker 1: I think, a day or two after the shooting, and

674
00:31:06,340 --> 00:31:10,040
Speaker 1: she's named Carrie after her auntie. And that is the

675
00:31:10,080 --> 00:31:13,500
Speaker 1: story of the eminently solvable Lane Bryant murders.

676
00:31:13,760 --> 00:31:16,440
Speaker 2: I'm so glad you did that. I've never heard of it.

677
00:31:17,570 --> 00:31:20,010
Speaker 2: And it's almost 20 years old.

678
00:31:20,150 --> 00:31:21,190
Speaker 1: I know. Yeah.

679
00:31:21,350 --> 00:31:23,330
Speaker 2: That's crazy. That should be.

680
00:31:23,610 --> 00:31:26,450
Speaker 1: I mean. It's got to be so frustrating for the investigators. Yeah.

681
00:31:26,550 --> 00:31:28,830
Speaker 1: I think they did in our doings. as much as

682
00:31:28,870 --> 00:31:29,350
Speaker 1: they can.

683
00:31:29,690 --> 00:31:31,910
Speaker 2: Well, and I think you're right in that with the

684
00:31:31,950 --> 00:31:35,510
Speaker 2: yogurt shop murders and watching these other ones, watching people

685
00:31:35,590 --> 00:31:38,590
Speaker 2: talk about it, watching it keep coming up, watching, I'll

686
00:31:38,610 --> 00:31:42,380
Speaker 2: call it like the directive towards solution, where it's like

687
00:31:42,760 --> 00:31:44,760
Speaker 2: people want to talk about that, like, oh, this is

688
00:31:45,150 --> 00:31:47,620
Speaker 2: you're bad for having this interest. And it's like there's

689
00:31:47,660 --> 00:31:51,180
Speaker 2: people who truly want these things solved, whether it's because

690
00:31:51,220 --> 00:31:54,120
Speaker 2: they worked in that business, they knew somebody, they have

691
00:31:54,140 --> 00:31:57,360
Speaker 2: it in their past, like the V-Doc Society, for example.

692
00:31:57,840 --> 00:32:00,820
Speaker 2: Those are all people that, like, I'll work overtime. I'm retired.

693
00:32:00,960 --> 00:32:02,620
Speaker 2: I don't care. I want to get this done.

694
00:32:02,680 --> 00:32:02,920
Speaker 1: Yeah.

695
00:32:03,320 --> 00:32:09,090
Speaker 2: And something like that should be solved. It should get solved.

696
00:32:09,140 --> 00:32:09,420
Speaker 1: I know.

697
00:32:09,450 --> 00:32:10,010
Speaker 2: I know.

698
00:32:10,090 --> 00:32:10,910
Speaker 1: Those poor women.

699
00:32:12,170 --> 00:32:13,130
Speaker 2: Well, great job.

700
00:32:13,190 --> 00:32:13,730
Speaker 1: Thank you.

701
00:32:13,870 --> 00:32:15,890
Speaker 2: I mean, those ones are always like that.

702
00:32:15,910 --> 00:32:18,370
Speaker 1: I know. And we had a bunch of emails from

703
00:32:18,870 --> 00:32:21,870
Speaker 1: listeners that were involved, like, knew someone who was involved

704
00:32:21,910 --> 00:32:25,229
Speaker 1: somehow or, you know, lived in that town and just

705
00:32:25,270 --> 00:32:26,930
Speaker 1: talked about how terrifying that was.

706
00:32:27,330 --> 00:32:30,780
Speaker 2: I mean— Yeah. It's so many people to be affected

707
00:32:30,820 --> 00:32:33,600
Speaker 2: to when it's like a group of people like that.

708
00:32:33,860 --> 00:32:34,060
Speaker 1: Yeah.

709
00:32:36,780 --> 00:32:40,100
Speaker 2: Well, good job. I'm going to change the tone here.

710
00:32:40,120 --> 00:32:40,380
Speaker 1: Great.

711
00:32:40,740 --> 00:32:43,370
Speaker 2: As we always do. Yeah. And this one is, it'll

712
00:32:43,410 --> 00:32:44,350
Speaker 2: be more satisfying.

713
00:32:44,510 --> 00:32:44,770
Speaker 1: Okay.

714
00:32:44,930 --> 00:32:47,270
Speaker 2: So I don't know if you knew, but it's Hispanic

715
00:32:47,290 --> 00:32:51,270
Speaker 2: Heritage Month. And it started September 15th and goes to

716
00:32:51,370 --> 00:32:52,330
Speaker 2: October 15th.

717
00:32:52,550 --> 00:32:52,830
Speaker 1: Oh, great.

718
00:32:53,070 --> 00:32:56,920
Speaker 2: So in honor of a Hispanic Heritage Month, I'm going

719
00:32:56,960 --> 00:33:00,580
Speaker 2: to bring you to Houston, Texas, in the late 1970s.

720
00:33:01,540 --> 00:33:05,300
Speaker 2: Mexican-American Detective Sergeant Jim Montero is sitting at his desk

721
00:33:05,380 --> 00:33:08,980
Speaker 2: in the robbery division of the Houston Police Department. Jim

722
00:33:09,000 --> 00:33:11,700
Speaker 2: is in his early 40s. He's been a detective for

723
00:33:11,880 --> 00:33:15,760
Speaker 2: almost 20 years. And along with his own caseload, he

724
00:33:15,980 --> 00:33:18,620
Speaker 2: is starting to realize that he's constantly being asked by

725
00:33:18,660 --> 00:33:22,530
Speaker 2: his white colleagues to translate for all of the witnesses

726
00:33:22,730 --> 00:33:25,710
Speaker 2: and the victims and the suspects that they have to

727
00:33:25,750 --> 00:33:28,750
Speaker 2: interact with that don't speak English. Jim is just one

728
00:33:28,790 --> 00:33:33,070
Speaker 2: of a handful of bilingual officers working for the Houston police.

729
00:33:33,850 --> 00:33:36,290
Speaker 2: And this is a time when most of the crimes

730
00:33:36,310 --> 00:33:43,200
Speaker 2: reported in Houston's Hispanic neighborhoods go unsolved. In 1979 alone, Wow.

731
00:33:43,220 --> 00:33:45,690
Speaker 2: If that feels high to you, it is, because in 2025,

732
00:33:45,690 --> 00:33:48,870
Speaker 2: they reported 270 homicides. Oh, my God. Like, one-third the amount.

733
00:33:48,890 --> 00:33:50,610
Speaker 2: I mean, I was going to say a third, but

734
00:33:50,630 --> 00:33:51,470
Speaker 2: I can't do math, so.

735
00:34:04,110 --> 00:34:04,729
Speaker 1: Approximately.

736
00:34:05,570 --> 00:34:10,120
Speaker 2: We're approximate statisticians here. And yet the clearance rate for

737
00:34:10,180 --> 00:34:14,420
Speaker 2: those crimes at the time is around 20 percent, whereas

738
00:34:14,520 --> 00:34:17,660
Speaker 2: murders involving white or black victims have clearance rates of

739
00:34:17,719 --> 00:34:19,180
Speaker 2: around 70 percent.

740
00:34:19,440 --> 00:34:19,660
Speaker 1: Wow.

741
00:34:20,120 --> 00:34:23,600
Speaker 2: So it's obvious to Jim that the language barrier is

742
00:34:23,660 --> 00:34:26,380
Speaker 2: what's driving this disparity. So he goes to his police

743
00:34:26,420 --> 00:34:31,259
Speaker 2: chief and convinces him that they need more Spanish language interpreters.

744
00:34:31,280 --> 00:34:31,500
Speaker 1: Mm-hmm.

745
00:34:31,900 --> 00:34:34,940
Speaker 2: Jim's given the green light to assemble a small, temporary,

746
00:34:35,060 --> 00:34:38,960
Speaker 2: bilingual task force made up of himself and other Spanish-speaking

747
00:34:39,260 --> 00:34:43,259
Speaker 2: patrol officers, anyone he can find. He's told it'll be

748
00:34:43,300 --> 00:34:46,390
Speaker 2: a 90-day pilot program, and once they're done, he'll go

749
00:34:46,430 --> 00:34:48,589
Speaker 2: back to the robbery division and the others will go

750
00:34:48,630 --> 00:34:52,350
Speaker 2: back on patrol. Turns out, in those 90 days, the

751
00:34:52,390 --> 00:34:55,859
Speaker 2: task force Jim puts together will not only make history,

752
00:34:56,300 --> 00:34:59,730
Speaker 2: but it'll change the Houston Police Department forever. This is

753
00:34:59,770 --> 00:35:04,450
Speaker 2: the story of the Houston Police Department's Chicano Squad. Wow.

754
00:35:04,570 --> 00:35:06,870
Speaker 2: Have you ever heard of this? Me either.

755
00:35:06,890 --> 00:35:08,610
Speaker 1: Not even when we were in Texas doing stories.

756
00:35:08,690 --> 00:35:12,130
Speaker 2: I know. Wow. So the main sources used today are

757
00:35:12,210 --> 00:35:15,319
Speaker 2: articles from the Houston Chronicle and a two-part A &

758
00:35:15,000 --> 00:35:18,310
Speaker 2: E documentary called The Chicano Squad. And the rest of

759
00:35:18,350 --> 00:35:20,930
Speaker 2: the sources are in our show notes. So, of course,

760
00:35:20,989 --> 00:35:25,210
Speaker 2: since it's 1979, when Detective Jim Montero starts putting this

761
00:35:25,310 --> 00:35:28,529
Speaker 2: Spanish-speaking task force of, hey, let us be in this

762
00:35:28,590 --> 00:35:32,859
Speaker 2: conversation and enable people to actually speak when they're interacting

763
00:35:32,880 --> 00:35:34,940
Speaker 2: with the police, this is a time when the Houston

764
00:35:34,960 --> 00:35:39,399
Speaker 2: Police Department's reputation is, simply put, by Marin, who's very

765
00:35:39,440 --> 00:35:43,200
Speaker 2: careful with her words, in the gutter. Many people who

766
00:35:43,260 --> 00:35:46,420
Speaker 2: live in Houston see the police department as a corrupt,

767
00:35:46,660 --> 00:35:51,280
Speaker 2: racist boys club, notorious not only for regularly harassing Hispanic

768
00:35:51,360 --> 00:35:54,670
Speaker 2: and Latino residents on the streets, but for discriminating against

769
00:35:54,750 --> 00:35:58,690
Speaker 2: black and brown department applicants to basically ensure that they

770
00:35:58,930 --> 00:36:03,110
Speaker 2: maintain mostly a white police force. As one black Houstonian

771
00:36:03,150 --> 00:36:09,450
Speaker 2: told a reporter in 1980, quote, Wow. That's terrifying.

772
00:36:10,250 --> 00:36:10,550
Speaker 1: Yeah.

773
00:36:10,670 --> 00:36:19,310
Speaker 2: So Jim Montero is especially qualified to understand the problem

774
00:36:19,450 --> 00:36:22,189
Speaker 2: in front of him. There's the language barrier, but there's

775
00:36:22,350 --> 00:36:26,090
Speaker 2: also such a deep mistrust of the police that many

776
00:36:26,140 --> 00:36:28,520
Speaker 2: black and brown people just simply will not talk to

777
00:36:28,580 --> 00:36:29,640
Speaker 2: police officers at all.

778
00:36:30,480 --> 00:36:30,879
Speaker 1: Jim knows.

779
00:36:31,360 --> 00:36:34,460
Speaker 2: This lack of communication is a giant roadblock to the

780
00:36:34,520 --> 00:36:37,560
Speaker 2: investigative work that they want to do. And he believes

781
00:36:37,620 --> 00:36:41,180
Speaker 2: it's vital his fellow translators aren't just bilingual, but that

782
00:36:41,239 --> 00:36:44,710
Speaker 2: they were either raised in or now live in these

783
00:36:44,790 --> 00:36:48,250
Speaker 2: Spanish-speaking neighborhoods where these crimes are taking place so that

784
00:36:48,330 --> 00:36:51,549
Speaker 2: some sort of trust can finally be established where there's

785
00:36:51,570 --> 00:36:56,299
Speaker 2: never been any before. So he recruits six patrol officers there.

786
00:36:56,790 --> 00:37:01,370
Speaker 2: who fit this criteria. And they are 26-year-old Cecil Mosqueda,

787
00:37:01,390 --> 00:37:08,820
Speaker 2: 28-year-old Joe Salvera Jr., 33-year-old UP Hernandez, 29-year-old Robert Gatewood,

788
00:37:08,840 --> 00:37:12,420
Speaker 2: 38-year-old Jose de Leon, and then, of course, Jim Montero,

789
00:37:12,580 --> 00:37:13,360
Speaker 2: who is the leader.

790
00:37:13,560 --> 00:37:15,739
Speaker 1: That is the most 70s photo I've ever seen. Was

791
00:37:15,800 --> 00:37:17,440
Speaker 1: it that you had to speak Spanish to be in

792
00:37:17,480 --> 00:37:19,819
Speaker 1: this or that you had to have or be able

793
00:37:19,860 --> 00:37:22,140
Speaker 1: to grow a really nice mustache? Absolutely.

794
00:37:22,200 --> 00:37:24,590
Speaker 2: Because that seems to be highly required.

795
00:37:24,750 --> 00:37:26,800
Speaker 1: We're going to need a wide-stripe tie. Please.

796
00:37:27,239 --> 00:37:29,440
Speaker 2: And here's what's really funny. This is a point that

797
00:37:29,480 --> 00:37:31,680
Speaker 2: comes up later. But when they first put this task

798
00:37:31,719 --> 00:37:35,549
Speaker 2: force together, they give them a tiny office with one

799
00:37:35,590 --> 00:37:36,859
Speaker 2: desk and one typewriter.

800
00:37:36,890 --> 00:37:37,569
Speaker 1: For all of them?

801
00:37:37,700 --> 00:37:40,310
Speaker 2: For everybody. And that's it. I like to think that's

802
00:37:40,350 --> 00:37:42,509
Speaker 2: the office where they just had to stand around like

803
00:37:42,590 --> 00:37:45,930
Speaker 2: shoulder to shoulder and talk about crimes. So the officers

804
00:37:46,150 --> 00:37:51,370
Speaker 2: that Jim Montero pulls from patrol, they have between three

805
00:37:51,410 --> 00:37:55,830
Speaker 2: years experience and 10 years experience. Many people would call

806
00:37:56,090 --> 00:37:59,150
Speaker 2: a lot of them rookies just because they're still patrol officers.

807
00:37:59,450 --> 00:38:01,110
Speaker 2: Some of them are at the top of their game

808
00:38:01,290 --> 00:38:04,350
Speaker 2: of being patrol officers. They're not yet detectives. Some of

809
00:38:04,390 --> 00:38:07,480
Speaker 2: them basically, after three years, it's like they just joined.

810
00:38:07,500 --> 00:38:09,580
Speaker 1: Plus they're probably not given a lot of chances to

811
00:38:09,620 --> 00:38:11,480
Speaker 1: advance because of the racism.

812
00:38:11,680 --> 00:38:15,460
Speaker 2: Right. The roadblocks are everywhere. The first issue that the

813
00:38:15,500 --> 00:38:19,700
Speaker 2: team deals with together is what to wear because everybody

814
00:38:19,739 --> 00:38:23,200
Speaker 2: but Jim just wears a uniform every day. So Jim

815
00:38:23,260 --> 00:38:26,020
Speaker 2: tells them, quote, You're going to wear the best clothes

816
00:38:26,060 --> 00:38:29,890
Speaker 2: you've got, suit, sport coats, shine shoes, and comb your hair.

817
00:38:30,360 --> 00:38:32,750
Speaker 2: Look good because when you're coming down the hall, they're

818
00:38:32,770 --> 00:38:34,710
Speaker 2: going to be looking at you and they'll want to

819
00:38:34,790 --> 00:38:35,850
Speaker 2: find something wrong.

820
00:38:36,050 --> 00:38:36,490
Speaker 1: Wow.

821
00:38:36,790 --> 00:38:37,230
Speaker 2: End quote.

822
00:38:37,489 --> 00:38:39,950
Speaker 1: I also imagine that the people they're speaking to, the

823
00:38:40,370 --> 00:38:43,509
Speaker 1: victims and the perpetrators, don't want to see you in

824
00:38:43,530 --> 00:38:46,129
Speaker 1: a cop uniform. They don't trust that to begin with.

825
00:38:46,310 --> 00:38:48,640
Speaker 2: Yes, exactly. But they want to know they're talking to

826
00:38:48,680 --> 00:38:51,960
Speaker 2: a professional, someone that's got their act together that is

827
00:38:52,120 --> 00:38:52,940
Speaker 2: going to help them.

828
00:38:53,000 --> 00:38:53,739
Speaker 1: Totally. Yeah.

829
00:38:54,180 --> 00:38:56,069
Speaker 2: I just love that because it's like when you're coming

830
00:38:56,110 --> 00:38:58,049
Speaker 2: down the hall, they're going to look for something to

831
00:38:58,130 --> 00:39:00,950
Speaker 2: find wrong. It's like, isn't that always the way for

832
00:39:00,969 --> 00:39:01,730
Speaker 2: the marginalized?

833
00:39:01,790 --> 00:39:03,150
Speaker 1: Everything has to be perfect.

834
00:39:03,210 --> 00:39:04,989
Speaker 2: Yep. Over time.

835
00:39:05,050 --> 00:39:05,190
Speaker 1: Right.

836
00:39:05,950 --> 00:39:08,109
Speaker 2: So from day one of this task force, these guys

837
00:39:08,190 --> 00:39:11,110
Speaker 2: roll in wearing their crisp suits and their beautiful coiffed

838
00:39:11,150 --> 00:39:15,110
Speaker 2: hair and, of course, their majestic mustaches. They're in a

839
00:39:15,110 --> 00:39:19,460
Speaker 2: 10 by 15 foot office. That's how big that office is.

840
00:39:19,540 --> 00:39:20,060
Speaker 1: Oh, my God.

841
00:39:20,540 --> 00:39:22,720
Speaker 2: It's an office like the studio, but seven guys.

842
00:39:22,739 --> 00:39:22,919
Speaker 1: Two.

843
00:39:23,350 --> 00:39:26,880
Speaker 2: It's at police headquarters. They have one desk, one chair,

844
00:39:27,160 --> 00:39:30,800
Speaker 2: one typewriter, and that's it for resources. So they spend

845
00:39:30,820 --> 00:39:34,700
Speaker 2: their first couple of days in the field responding to robberies,

846
00:39:34,760 --> 00:39:38,310
Speaker 2: sex crimes, and homicides. And so when they arrive in

847
00:39:38,350 --> 00:39:40,770
Speaker 2: the scene, they meet up with the white detectives assigned

848
00:39:40,790 --> 00:39:44,150
Speaker 2: to each case and then essentially shadow them while they work,

849
00:39:44,550 --> 00:39:47,430
Speaker 2: translating when needed. Then they go back to the tiny

850
00:39:47,510 --> 00:39:50,710
Speaker 2: office and they wait their turn to type up their

851
00:39:50,770 --> 00:39:54,129
Speaker 2: notes on the one typewriter that they have. And they work,

852
00:39:54,270 --> 00:39:58,550
Speaker 2: of course, long, nonstop hours. Cecil Mosqueda, who was a

853
00:39:58,590 --> 00:40:00,990
Speaker 2: member of the original task force, will later say, quote,

854
00:40:01,310 --> 00:40:04,200
Speaker 2: we were confused, we were lost, but we ran with it.

855
00:40:05,590 --> 00:40:07,760
Speaker 2: So as they move from crime scene to crime scene,

856
00:40:08,080 --> 00:40:11,560
Speaker 2: they can now see firsthand how much the language barrier

857
00:40:11,680 --> 00:40:16,160
Speaker 2: is hampering Houston PD's investigations. In one case involving the

858
00:40:16,180 --> 00:40:19,090
Speaker 2: murder of a Hispanic security guard in a Houston warehouse,

859
00:40:19,570 --> 00:40:23,050
Speaker 2: the assigned white detective notes that there's a potential witness

860
00:40:23,110 --> 00:40:26,970
Speaker 2: out there named, quote, Flaco. The detective has been going

861
00:40:27,030 --> 00:40:29,430
Speaker 2: door to door near the crime scene hoping to find

862
00:40:29,469 --> 00:40:33,489
Speaker 2: someone who can connect him with this person, Flaco. No

863
00:40:33,550 --> 00:40:36,049
Speaker 2: one ever seems to know who he's talking about. The

864
00:40:36,070 --> 00:40:40,030
Speaker 2: case goes nowhere. When this task force is finally looped in,

865
00:40:40,620 --> 00:40:44,930
Speaker 2: they figure out The detective has misheard the Spanish word flaco,

866
00:40:45,320 --> 00:40:46,250
Speaker 2: which means skinny.

867
00:40:46,969 --> 00:40:47,650
Speaker 1: Oh, wow.

868
00:40:48,050 --> 00:40:50,870
Speaker 2: This almost certainly is both a nickname and the physical

869
00:40:50,910 --> 00:40:54,109
Speaker 2: description of the guy he's looking for. And when they

870
00:40:54,170 --> 00:40:57,920
Speaker 2: finally find flaco, they get the information they needed. This

871
00:40:58,000 --> 00:41:02,520
Speaker 2: single small correction breaks the case wide open. Consequential fixes

872
00:41:02,560 --> 00:41:05,819
Speaker 2: like this start immediately. The task force is off to

873
00:41:05,880 --> 00:41:08,370
Speaker 2: such a good start. that just a few days into

874
00:41:08,390 --> 00:41:12,109
Speaker 2: his existence, the men arrive back to their tiny office

875
00:41:12,760 --> 00:41:16,360
Speaker 2: to find a stack of 52 cold murder cases waiting

876
00:41:16,400 --> 00:41:20,959
Speaker 2: for them. Each involves Spanish-speaking victims or neighborhoods with many

877
00:41:21,000 --> 00:41:24,239
Speaker 2: Hispanic and Latino residents. So the men divide up the

878
00:41:24,280 --> 00:41:28,660
Speaker 2: files and start looking through them. Cecil Mosqueda will later say, quote,

879
00:41:29,120 --> 00:41:30,580
Speaker 2: We're sitting there on the floor.

880
00:41:30,860 --> 00:41:31,540
Speaker 1: We're reading.

881
00:41:32,280 --> 00:41:35,069
Speaker 2: In their suits. Oh, my God. We're reading, and the

882
00:41:35,110 --> 00:41:38,480
Speaker 2: reports are nothing. There was nothing done, no follow-ups done,

883
00:41:38,660 --> 00:41:42,739
Speaker 2: a lot of whodunits and unsolved cases, end quote. As

884
00:41:42,800 --> 00:41:46,760
Speaker 2: he puts it, the white homicide detectives assigned to those cases, quote,

885
00:41:47,160 --> 00:41:50,759
Speaker 2: really just didn't care, end quote. The men realize now

886
00:41:51,340 --> 00:41:55,340
Speaker 2: that the expectations have shifted. Instead of following detectives out

887
00:41:55,360 --> 00:41:58,600
Speaker 2: in the field and acting as basic translators, the task

888
00:41:58,640 --> 00:42:02,969
Speaker 2: force has now been assigned these 52 cases, to investigate themselves.

889
00:42:03,610 --> 00:42:07,430
Speaker 2: As Jim puts it later, quote, we started out as interpreters.

890
00:42:07,690 --> 00:42:11,239
Speaker 2: That lasted about a week, end quote. So here's the

891
00:42:11,260 --> 00:42:13,960
Speaker 2: big problem. Of the six men on this task force,

892
00:42:14,200 --> 00:42:17,900
Speaker 2: none of them have ever conducted a homicide investigation except

893
00:42:17,940 --> 00:42:21,400
Speaker 2: for Jim Montero. Now it's clear that no formal training

894
00:42:21,520 --> 00:42:24,319
Speaker 2: will be offered, and Jim realizes it will be up

895
00:42:24,340 --> 00:42:26,660
Speaker 2: to him to give the rest of them a crash

896
00:42:26,760 --> 00:42:30,410
Speaker 2: course on solving murders. So he goes and gets some

897
00:42:30,530 --> 00:42:33,760
Speaker 2: index cards and on them he writes things like, quote,

898
00:42:34,000 --> 00:42:38,239
Speaker 2: describe scene of offense or collect and label evidence or

899
00:42:38,460 --> 00:42:42,040
Speaker 2: interrogate suspects. Each member of the task force is given

900
00:42:42,239 --> 00:42:44,950
Speaker 2: an index card. And then with those cards, they just

901
00:42:44,989 --> 00:42:47,209
Speaker 2: hit the streets and that's their thing they.

902
00:42:47,130 --> 00:42:49,790
Speaker 1: Have to do. Just directions of what the steps to take.

903
00:42:49,969 --> 00:42:52,530
Speaker 2: Wow. Yeah. Early on, they have a hard time finding

904
00:42:52,710 --> 00:42:55,670
Speaker 2: anyone willing to talk to them. Some people assume the

905
00:42:55,730 --> 00:42:58,470
Speaker 2: officers have come to start trouble like so many police

906
00:42:58,510 --> 00:43:02,129
Speaker 2: have done before. Others consider them sellouts for joining such

907
00:43:02,250 --> 00:43:06,180
Speaker 2: a notoriously horrible police force. Cecil will later say, quote,

908
00:43:06,340 --> 00:43:09,340
Speaker 2: I knew why people felt that way. Policemen were always

909
00:43:09,400 --> 00:43:12,580
Speaker 2: coming around my neighborhood. We thought they were bad, end quote.

910
00:43:12,860 --> 00:43:16,080
Speaker 2: And with good reason, of course. At the time, Houston's

911
00:43:16,120 --> 00:43:20,140
Speaker 2: Mexican-American population is still reeling from the May, two years

912
00:43:20,200 --> 00:43:24,480
Speaker 2: before the May 1977 murder of Of 23-year-old Vietnam War

913
00:43:24,560 --> 00:43:30,390
Speaker 2: veteran Jose Campos Torres by white Houston police officers. So

914
00:43:30,989 --> 00:43:33,770
Speaker 2: here's Jose. We have a picture of him from the army.

915
00:43:34,469 --> 00:43:38,060
Speaker 2: He'd been arrested for drunken disorderly outside of a cantina.

916
00:43:38,660 --> 00:43:41,399
Speaker 2: But instead of taking him to jail, the officers drove

917
00:43:41,440 --> 00:43:44,529
Speaker 2: him out to a remote area near a bayou. beat

918
00:43:44,570 --> 00:43:46,970
Speaker 2: him to death, and then threw his body in the water.

919
00:43:47,110 --> 00:43:47,989
Speaker 1: Oh, my God.

920
00:43:48,450 --> 00:43:50,330
Speaker 2: It's kind of like the Starlight Tours.

921
00:43:50,550 --> 00:43:52,370
Speaker 1: Yeah, Starlight Express Tours.

922
00:43:52,530 --> 00:43:52,990
Speaker 2: Yeah.

923
00:43:53,110 --> 00:43:53,850
Speaker 1: Starlight Tours, yeah.

924
00:43:53,870 --> 00:43:56,660
Speaker 2: The Starlight Tours up in Canada, where it's just like

925
00:43:57,020 --> 00:44:00,279
Speaker 2: it's a thing that's done, that police have done historically.

926
00:44:00,540 --> 00:44:03,580
Speaker 2: So Jose Torres' body is found days later.

927
00:44:03,600 --> 00:44:04,320
Speaker 1: Oh, my God.

928
00:44:04,800 --> 00:44:07,920
Speaker 2: One officer came forward and told the truth about what

929
00:44:07,980 --> 00:44:11,439
Speaker 2: happened that night, and he implicated his colleagues, and those

930
00:44:11,540 --> 00:44:14,910
Speaker 2: officers were fired and charged with murder. Some of them

931
00:44:15,050 --> 00:44:18,660
Speaker 2: received immunity in exchange for their testimony, while others were

932
00:44:18,739 --> 00:44:22,940
Speaker 2: ultimately handed misdemeanors by an all-white jury with no jail

933
00:44:22,980 --> 00:44:28,380
Speaker 2: time and a fine of $ 1.

934
00:44:27,100 --> 00:44:28,839
Speaker 1: That's almost more insulting. It is.

935
00:44:29,100 --> 00:44:30,759
Speaker 2: It's directly fucking insulting.

936
00:44:30,780 --> 00:44:32,620
Speaker 1: That is so horrific.

937
00:44:32,840 --> 00:44:33,700
Speaker 2: It's a fuck you.

938
00:44:34,010 --> 00:44:36,830
Speaker 1: Absolutely. Wow. That's just awful.

939
00:44:37,430 --> 00:44:42,130
Speaker 2: In the aftermath, some of Houston's Mexican-American activists and probably

940
00:44:42,489 --> 00:44:46,230
Speaker 2: just people were They start pinning dollar bills to their shirts,

941
00:44:46,930 --> 00:44:49,450
Speaker 2: reminding the rest of the city, this is what the

942
00:44:49,489 --> 00:44:51,910
Speaker 2: Houston PD believes our lives are worth.

943
00:44:51,950 --> 00:44:52,489
Speaker 1: Wow.

944
00:44:52,670 --> 00:44:54,469
Speaker 2: Walking around with a dollar pinned to their shirt.

945
00:44:54,530 --> 00:44:55,550
Speaker 1: That is so powerful.

946
00:44:56,290 --> 00:44:59,399
Speaker 2: So knowing this is the history they're up against, this

947
00:44:59,440 --> 00:45:03,240
Speaker 2: task force does everything they can to cultivate genuine trust.

948
00:45:03,460 --> 00:45:07,140
Speaker 2: They approach people with warmth and kindness. Jim remembers, quote,

949
00:45:07,460 --> 00:45:10,260
Speaker 2: we put the word out. We're not in the deportation business.

950
00:45:10,750 --> 00:45:13,029
Speaker 2: We're there to help. You've got to talk to them.

951
00:45:13,350 --> 00:45:17,569
Speaker 2: Get them to trust you, end quote. Then Cecil also says, quote,

952
00:45:17,750 --> 00:45:19,950
Speaker 2: we did a lot of foot investigation, a lot of

953
00:45:20,010 --> 00:45:22,489
Speaker 2: knock and talks. We didn't just sit there. It was

954
00:45:22,550 --> 00:45:26,030
Speaker 2: hands on. We did whatever it took, end quote. So

955
00:45:26,700 --> 00:45:29,500
Speaker 2: they're going door to door. They're introducing themselves. They're handing

956
00:45:29,540 --> 00:45:32,739
Speaker 2: out business cards with their contact information. And they're letting

957
00:45:32,780 --> 00:45:36,020
Speaker 2: people know help really is one phone call away. And

958
00:45:36,060 --> 00:45:38,620
Speaker 2: they're the people that are answering the phone. And it

959
00:45:38,680 --> 00:45:42,810
Speaker 2: ends up working. Slowly, people open up to these officers,

960
00:45:43,350 --> 00:45:47,200
Speaker 2: sometimes literally inviting them into their home for meals. These

961
00:45:47,239 --> 00:45:50,980
Speaker 2: connections pay off almost immediately. Joe will later say, quote,

962
00:45:51,380 --> 00:45:54,440
Speaker 2: somewhere in those houses, there is a senora that's always

963
00:45:54,680 --> 00:45:57,340
Speaker 2: out there watering the plants or sitting on that porch

964
00:45:57,560 --> 00:45:58,480
Speaker 2: that saw something.

965
00:45:58,860 --> 00:45:59,180
Speaker 1: Wow.

966
00:45:59,380 --> 00:46:02,339
Speaker 2: You get an Anglo investigator, he's not going to get

967
00:46:02,380 --> 00:46:03,040
Speaker 2: that information.

968
00:46:03,120 --> 00:46:03,380
Speaker 1: Yeah.

969
00:46:04,400 --> 00:46:05,060
Speaker 2: End quote.

970
00:46:05,140 --> 00:46:08,890
Speaker 1: Wow. It's just so obvious and true to us today.

971
00:46:09,360 --> 00:46:13,419
Speaker 1: But this is our real history in this country. This

972
00:46:13,600 --> 00:46:16,719
Speaker 1: is the very recent past of the white boys are

973
00:46:16,760 --> 00:46:18,440
Speaker 1: in charge. They'll do it how they want.

974
00:46:19,020 --> 00:46:22,260
Speaker 2: And if people of color and marginalized people are hurt

975
00:46:22,340 --> 00:46:25,650
Speaker 2: or killed in the process, well, that's just the way

976
00:46:25,690 --> 00:46:28,390
Speaker 2: it is. And we've all lived that way for a

977
00:46:28,410 --> 00:46:32,210
Speaker 2: long time. And it's really fascinating to think of there

978
00:46:32,250 --> 00:46:35,950
Speaker 2: were first people who got in there to stop to

979
00:46:36,010 --> 00:46:39,109
Speaker 2: stop it and change it. And thank God it was

980
00:46:39,170 --> 00:46:41,549
Speaker 2: someone like Jim Montero and all the rest of the

981
00:46:41,570 --> 00:46:43,799
Speaker 2: people on this task force who were going to actually

982
00:46:43,860 --> 00:46:46,399
Speaker 2: do it. They weren't just going to phone it in.

983
00:46:46,900 --> 00:46:50,920
Speaker 2: So this approach begins to foster mutual respect and it

984
00:46:50,980 --> 00:46:55,520
Speaker 2: becomes crucial in many cases. Cecil Mosqueda works a homicide

985
00:46:55,580 --> 00:46:58,819
Speaker 2: where witnesses refuse to talk to the white detectives. He

986
00:46:58,860 --> 00:47:02,280
Speaker 2: find out it's because the officers openly mocked the murder

987
00:47:02,320 --> 00:47:05,260
Speaker 2: victim for being shot to death while holding a case

988
00:47:05,300 --> 00:47:05,720
Speaker 2: of beer.

989
00:47:06,340 --> 00:47:07,020
Speaker 1: Oh, my God.

990
00:47:07,260 --> 00:47:09,520
Speaker 2: Why in God's name would you be talking to that person?

991
00:47:09,560 --> 00:47:11,890
Speaker 2: Why would you help that person do their job ever?

992
00:47:12,070 --> 00:47:12,910
Speaker 1: Clearly they don't care.

993
00:47:13,219 --> 00:47:16,810
Speaker 2: Cecil goes and speaks to the same witnesses and convinces

994
00:47:16,830 --> 00:47:18,770
Speaker 2: them he wants to do right by the victim and

995
00:47:18,870 --> 00:47:22,870
Speaker 2: right by the community. The people who know things start talking,

996
00:47:23,350 --> 00:47:25,970
Speaker 2: and very soon Cecil is able to solve the case,

997
00:47:26,450 --> 00:47:28,250
Speaker 2: solve an old murder case that was just going to

998
00:47:28,270 --> 00:47:30,589
Speaker 2: sit there. And it's the kind of thing where I

999
00:47:30,630 --> 00:47:34,140
Speaker 2: started thinking about it, like, how many police departments in

1000
00:47:34,200 --> 00:47:37,819
Speaker 2: how many cities across this country, that's what all the

1001
00:47:37,840 --> 00:47:38,640
Speaker 2: cold cases are.

1002
00:47:39,090 --> 00:47:39,410
Speaker 1: Yeah.

1003
00:47:39,610 --> 00:47:41,870
Speaker 2: It's who cared about who and who didn't.

1004
00:47:42,030 --> 00:47:42,530
Speaker 1: Totally.

1005
00:47:43,150 --> 00:47:46,910
Speaker 2: So another unsolved homicide the task force inherits involves a

1006
00:47:46,969 --> 00:47:50,210
Speaker 2: fatal shooting in a cantina from two years prior. There

1007
00:47:50,290 --> 00:47:53,950
Speaker 2: are no recorded leads, witnesses, or tips of any kind

1008
00:47:53,989 --> 00:47:56,490
Speaker 2: in the case file. It looks like the white detective

1009
00:47:56,510 --> 00:47:58,970
Speaker 2: assigned to the case just didn't do any work.

1010
00:47:58,880 --> 00:47:59,739
Speaker 1: On it at all. Mm-hmm.

1011
00:48:00,520 --> 00:48:03,379
Speaker 2: So the men drive over to this cantina and they

1012
00:48:03,480 --> 00:48:07,210
Speaker 2: introduce themselves. Hey, we're the task force. We speak Spanish.

1013
00:48:07,310 --> 00:48:10,029
Speaker 2: We would like to solve these murders. They matter to us.

1014
00:48:10,770 --> 00:48:14,049
Speaker 2: They ask a few basic questions and the bartenders immediately

1015
00:48:14,130 --> 00:48:16,590
Speaker 2: open up. It turns out the murder started as an

1016
00:48:16,739 --> 00:48:19,620
Speaker 2: argument between two men at the bar. The victim was

1017
00:48:19,660 --> 00:48:23,520
Speaker 2: shot in front of many horrified witnesses. But more importantly,

1018
00:48:24,060 --> 00:48:27,700
Speaker 2: the lack of any real investigation has left the killer emboldened.

1019
00:48:28,360 --> 00:48:31,950
Speaker 2: He regularly comes back into this cantina, putting his gun

1020
00:48:32,230 --> 00:48:34,810
Speaker 2: on the bar when he drinks as a show of power.

1021
00:48:34,950 --> 00:48:36,070
Speaker 1: Holy shit.

1022
00:48:36,530 --> 00:48:39,350
Speaker 2: Now, basically, the task force can be like, the next

1023
00:48:39,390 --> 00:48:42,009
Speaker 2: time he comes here, call us and we will come.

1024
00:48:42,550 --> 00:48:45,160
Speaker 2: And that's exactly what happens. That man does come back.

1025
00:48:45,320 --> 00:48:48,620
Speaker 2: The bartenders have the task force number pinned behind the bar.

1026
00:48:49,320 --> 00:48:52,460
Speaker 2: They know who's answering the phone. So they call and

1027
00:48:52,780 --> 00:48:55,360
Speaker 2: say the killer's back and the team rushes down and

1028
00:48:55,400 --> 00:48:55,970
Speaker 2: arrests him.

1029
00:48:56,050 --> 00:48:58,750
Speaker 1: Wow. It's almost like it's so ridiculous because it's not

1030
00:48:58,770 --> 00:49:02,170
Speaker 1: like they didn't want to give evidence and they didn't

1031
00:49:02,230 --> 00:49:04,420
Speaker 1: want to talk. There was just nobody to do it

1032
00:49:04,540 --> 00:49:07,320
Speaker 1: to like nobody to talk to. Right. Because nobody cared.

1033
00:49:07,600 --> 00:49:11,230
Speaker 2: Nobody cared. And it's that's that kind of then we

1034
00:49:11,230 --> 00:49:14,109
Speaker 2: have to solve problems within our own. Well, we'll handle it.

1035
00:49:14,110 --> 00:49:14,410
Speaker 1: Right.

1036
00:49:14,410 --> 00:49:16,719
Speaker 2: And, like, just don't go near that guy next time,

1037
00:49:16,780 --> 00:49:17,500
Speaker 2: whatever it is.

1038
00:49:17,900 --> 00:49:18,080
Speaker 1: Yeah.

1039
00:49:18,100 --> 00:49:19,880
Speaker 2: Then you have to start self-policing.

1040
00:49:19,900 --> 00:49:19,980
Speaker 1: Yeah.

1041
00:49:20,080 --> 00:49:20,919
Speaker 2: And then, yeah.

1042
00:49:21,239 --> 00:49:24,620
Speaker 1: After just one month, the task force has closed 12

1043
00:49:24,620 --> 00:49:26,000
Speaker 1: homicide cases. Wow.

1044
00:49:26,239 --> 00:49:29,010
Speaker 2: Joe Silvera Jr. will later say, quote, when I did

1045
00:49:29,070 --> 00:49:31,570
Speaker 2: my first murder, being able to bring that closure, I

1046
00:49:32,170 --> 00:49:34,430
Speaker 2: felt good about that. That gave me purpose.

1047
00:49:35,270 --> 00:49:35,669
Speaker 1: End quote.

1048
00:49:35,870 --> 00:49:38,550
Speaker 2: Because this is a street cop. Yeah. This is a

1049
00:49:38,810 --> 00:49:43,310
Speaker 2: beat cop. And now he's a successful detective. The cases

1050
00:49:43,350 --> 00:49:46,650
Speaker 2: just keep coming, not always in good faith. Some white detectives,

1051
00:49:46,710 --> 00:49:49,730
Speaker 2: hoping to see the task force fail, try to overwhelm

1052
00:49:49,790 --> 00:49:53,690
Speaker 2: them with an impossible number of unsolved investigations. A Houston

1053
00:49:53,730 --> 00:49:56,780
Speaker 2: Police Department colleague will tell the Houston Chronicle that, quote,

1054
00:49:57,460 --> 00:50:00,739
Speaker 2: they were thrown everything they had, anything that sounded like

1055
00:50:00,780 --> 00:50:04,739
Speaker 2: a Spanish surname, more in resentment of their existence. But

1056
00:50:04,780 --> 00:50:07,830
Speaker 2: these guys worked them all. They just became a trusted

1057
00:50:07,890 --> 00:50:09,110
Speaker 2: resource in the community.

1058
00:50:09,140 --> 00:50:09,819
Speaker 1: Amazing.

1059
00:50:09,860 --> 00:50:11,480
Speaker 2: So they were like, it's the thing I love the

1060
00:50:11,520 --> 00:50:13,090
Speaker 2: most when people do it, and it's very hard to do.

1061
00:50:13,160 --> 00:50:15,490
Speaker 2: It's like the Bugs Bunny move, where you're like, oh,

1062
00:50:15,500 --> 00:50:17,440
Speaker 2: is that what you're doing? Sounds good. I'll make a

1063
00:50:17,480 --> 00:50:20,660
Speaker 2: day of it. Right. I will succeed at you trying

1064
00:50:20,680 --> 00:50:21,660
Speaker 2: to make me fail.

1065
00:50:21,680 --> 00:50:22,160
Speaker 1: Totally.

1066
00:50:22,340 --> 00:50:24,969
Speaker 2: So the task force is also getting very nice press

1067
00:50:25,010 --> 00:50:27,290
Speaker 2: for all of this success. The media is the one

1068
00:50:27,330 --> 00:50:30,390
Speaker 2: that actually dubs them the Chicano squad. But of course,

1069
00:50:31,150 --> 00:50:34,350
Speaker 2: that brings the haters, as always. So the white detectives

1070
00:50:34,510 --> 00:50:37,850
Speaker 2: are angrier than ever before. Some try to take credit

1071
00:50:37,890 --> 00:50:41,529
Speaker 2: for the cases the Chicano squad clears. Others complain the

1072
00:50:41,630 --> 00:50:44,990
Speaker 2: only reason they became detectives is because they got unfair

1073
00:50:45,070 --> 00:50:46,170
Speaker 2: preferential treatment.

1074
00:50:47,050 --> 00:50:48,689
Speaker 1: Oh, my God. Are you kidding me?

1075
00:50:48,710 --> 00:50:50,110
Speaker 2: Sounds familiar. Yeah, exactly.

1076
00:50:50,130 --> 00:50:52,390
Speaker 1: I've had to work twice as hard for half the

1077
00:50:52,430 --> 00:50:53,910
Speaker 1: respect and you're telling.

1078
00:50:54,210 --> 00:50:57,469
Speaker 2: In a room a little bit bigger than a broom closet.

1079
00:50:57,770 --> 00:51:00,890
Speaker 2: And yeah, you're right. This is because I'm special circumstances.

1080
00:51:01,570 --> 00:51:05,210
Speaker 2: Cecil remembers one white officer telling him, quote, I know

1081
00:51:05,250 --> 00:51:08,089
Speaker 2: why y'all got in, because y'all are Hispanics. That's why.

1082
00:51:09,230 --> 00:51:12,279
Speaker 2: He said, we're still in the quote. He said, you're

1083
00:51:12,300 --> 00:51:15,480
Speaker 2: not smart enough to be promoted to detective. Oh, man,

1084
00:51:15,719 --> 00:51:18,940
Speaker 2: did that hit me hard. That's what motivated me. I

1085
00:51:18,980 --> 00:51:21,120
Speaker 2: wanted to prove to myself that I could do it

1086
00:51:21,320 --> 00:51:22,380
Speaker 2: and to shut them down.

1087
00:51:22,540 --> 00:51:22,959
Speaker 1: Hell, yeah.

1088
00:51:23,140 --> 00:51:25,420
Speaker 2: End quote. Yeah, go ahead and call me stupid.

1089
00:51:25,440 --> 00:51:25,760
Speaker 1: Totally.

1090
00:51:25,780 --> 00:51:28,900
Speaker 2: I'll show you how stupid I am. Remember, this task

1091
00:51:28,920 --> 00:51:31,180
Speaker 2: force had 90 days to clear 52 cases.

1092
00:51:31,200 --> 00:51:31,370
Speaker 1: Mm-hmm.

1093
00:51:32,690 --> 00:51:35,730
Speaker 2: So as the task force comes to its scheduled close,

1094
00:51:36,270 --> 00:51:40,690
Speaker 2: Joe remembers, quote, we had in 90 days cleared 40

1095
00:51:40,690 --> 00:51:43,890
Speaker 2: murder cases that were sitting in the file. It was

1096
00:51:43,969 --> 00:51:47,489
Speaker 2: about an 80 percent clearance rate. It's unheard of.

1097
00:51:47,590 --> 00:51:49,379
Speaker 1: How? Yeah. Holy shit.

1098
00:51:49,550 --> 00:51:53,140
Speaker 2: Unheard of. So they're they're like, OK, fine now. Now

1099
00:51:53,160 --> 00:51:53,920
Speaker 2: we've got a grudge.

1100
00:51:54,040 --> 00:51:54,300
Speaker 1: Yeah.

1101
00:51:54,340 --> 00:51:55,520
Speaker 2: Now we were going to prove a point.

1102
00:51:55,560 --> 00:51:58,020
Speaker 1: Totally. Now we're going to show not only that we're

1103
00:51:58,060 --> 00:52:00,700
Speaker 1: good at this, but that you're fucking terrible at it.

1104
00:52:00,820 --> 00:52:03,600
Speaker 1: Look how easy it was to solve 40. Yes. That

1105
00:52:03,660 --> 00:52:06,110
Speaker 1: you couldn't, that are cold cases because you couldn't figure

1106
00:52:06,140 --> 00:52:06,509
Speaker 1: them out.

1107
00:52:06,770 --> 00:52:08,930
Speaker 2: And it's like they came in and they slapped down

1108
00:52:08,989 --> 00:52:11,330
Speaker 2: all those. You can tell, like, just put it all

1109
00:52:11,350 --> 00:52:11,810
Speaker 2: on the desk.

1110
00:52:11,830 --> 00:52:13,090
Speaker 1: Put the hard ones, put the, yeah.

1111
00:52:13,110 --> 00:52:15,890
Speaker 2: Just whatever. And it's like, this is how bad you

1112
00:52:15,910 --> 00:52:16,330
Speaker 2: guys are.

1113
00:52:16,390 --> 00:52:16,730
Speaker 1: Totally.

1114
00:52:17,330 --> 00:52:21,410
Speaker 2: We just took care of it in our... Wonderful mustaches.

1115
00:52:21,590 --> 00:52:24,650
Speaker 2: So the Houston police decide they're going to turn the

1116
00:52:24,690 --> 00:52:29,390
Speaker 2: Chicano squad into a permanent unit. Nice. Obviously, Houston, the

1117
00:52:29,430 --> 00:52:34,700
Speaker 2: Hispanic population is only growing. It's so necessary. And because

1118
00:52:34,739 --> 00:52:38,319
Speaker 2: of this, these six men are given more resources and

1119
00:52:38,360 --> 00:52:39,120
Speaker 2: more manpower.

1120
00:52:39,140 --> 00:52:39,540
Speaker 1: Nice.

1121
00:52:39,760 --> 00:52:44,060
Speaker 2: One more typewriter. Before long, there are a dozen Spanish-speaking

1122
00:52:44,080 --> 00:52:48,930
Speaker 2: investigators investigating every kind of case. murders, robberies, human trafficking,

1123
00:52:49,150 --> 00:52:53,150
Speaker 2: and kidnapping. So this is the updated picture. In 1986,

1124
00:52:53,150 --> 00:52:57,609
Speaker 2: this is how big the Chicano squad had gotten. But

1125
00:52:57,770 --> 00:53:00,450
Speaker 2: the case the Chicano squad will say is the one

1126
00:53:00,469 --> 00:53:03,250
Speaker 2: they're most proud of is a kidnapping. It happens in

1127
00:53:03,310 --> 00:53:08,779
Speaker 2: October of 1987. A 14-month-old baby named Liliana Reyes is

1128
00:53:08,820 --> 00:53:10,819
Speaker 2: taken from her crib in the middle of the night

1129
00:53:10,960 --> 00:53:14,000
Speaker 2: by a woman who had hours before knocked on the

1130
00:53:14,040 --> 00:53:16,939
Speaker 2: Reyes family front door and asked for a place to sleep.

1131
00:53:18,100 --> 00:53:20,640
Speaker 2: The family let her in, and the next morning, the

1132
00:53:20,680 --> 00:53:23,399
Speaker 2: woman and their baby, Liliana, were both gone.

1133
00:53:23,420 --> 00:53:23,960
Speaker 1: Oh, my God.

1134
00:53:24,380 --> 00:53:27,989
Speaker 2: Joe remembers getting the call from the juvenile division of

1135
00:53:28,030 --> 00:53:31,529
Speaker 2: the Houston police that morning, and he says, quote, they

1136
00:53:31,550 --> 00:53:34,410
Speaker 2: were saying they had a kidnapping, the victim was Hispanic,

1137
00:53:34,530 --> 00:53:36,969
Speaker 2: and they had no one to work the case. So

1138
00:53:37,010 --> 00:53:40,250
Speaker 2: I called the FBI, and they said, no, we don't

1139
00:53:40,270 --> 00:53:42,970
Speaker 2: have anybody who speaks Spanish here either, so it's yours,

1140
00:53:43,750 --> 00:53:44,189
Speaker 2: end quote.

1141
00:53:44,780 --> 00:53:45,030
Speaker 1: Wow.

1142
00:53:45,660 --> 00:53:48,640
Speaker 2: So this wasn't a local problem. This wasn't a Texas problem.

1143
00:53:48,660 --> 00:53:52,190
Speaker 2: This is governmental, national, American problem.

1144
00:53:52,210 --> 00:53:52,509
Speaker 1: Of course.

1145
00:53:53,070 --> 00:53:57,330
Speaker 2: So luckily it was these guys. So Joe and fellow

1146
00:53:57,370 --> 00:54:01,509
Speaker 2: Chicano squad member Raymond Gonzalez get to work. They get

1147
00:54:01,550 --> 00:54:04,310
Speaker 2: an early lead from a truck driver reporting giving a

1148
00:54:04,350 --> 00:54:06,950
Speaker 2: woman and a baby a ride to the U.S.-Mexico border

1149
00:54:07,030 --> 00:54:09,750
Speaker 2: the night of the kidnapping. They spread the word of

1150
00:54:09,790 --> 00:54:13,700
Speaker 2: Liliana's kidnapping. And after only a few days, their phone rings.

1151
00:54:14,330 --> 00:54:18,510
Speaker 2: A tipster a thousand miles away in Puebla, Mexico, tells

1152
00:54:18,610 --> 00:54:21,850
Speaker 2: Joe that her daughter, who is struggling with her mental health,

1153
00:54:22,370 --> 00:54:26,070
Speaker 2: recently came back into town with a baby that isn't hers.

1154
00:54:26,610 --> 00:54:27,930
Speaker 1: Holy shit.

1155
00:54:28,320 --> 00:54:31,780
Speaker 2: So basically, they got the word out so well, especially

1156
00:54:31,840 --> 00:54:35,959
Speaker 2: among Spanish-speaking people, that the caller heard about Liliana's case

1157
00:54:35,980 --> 00:54:37,920
Speaker 2: in Texas a thousand miles away.

1158
00:54:37,980 --> 00:54:38,200
Speaker 1: Wow.

1159
00:54:38,540 --> 00:54:40,919
Speaker 2: So over the phone, Joe and Raymond asked this woman

1160
00:54:40,960 --> 00:54:44,250
Speaker 2: to check the baby out. for a very unique birthmark

1161
00:54:44,290 --> 00:54:48,700
Speaker 2: that she had. It turns out it's Liliana. Unbelievably, though,

1162
00:54:48,989 --> 00:54:52,379
Speaker 2: the Houston Police Department won't pay for the detectives to

1163
00:54:52,460 --> 00:54:56,920
Speaker 2: go down to Mexico to get her. So the Chicano

1164
00:54:56,940 --> 00:54:59,960
Speaker 2: squad does what any good American would do when corruption

1165
00:55:00,020 --> 00:55:04,080
Speaker 2: stands in their way or racism or anything else. They

1166
00:55:04,100 --> 00:55:05,020
Speaker 2: call the local news.

1167
00:55:05,460 --> 00:55:05,680
Speaker 1: Nice.

1168
00:55:05,860 --> 00:55:10,029
Speaker 2: Houston news channel KPRC2 steps in and fronts them the

1169
00:55:10,070 --> 00:55:13,390
Speaker 2: money to go on that trip. Damn. Twelve days after

1170
00:55:13,430 --> 00:55:17,310
Speaker 2: going missing from her crib, the Chicano squad reunites an

1171
00:55:17,510 --> 00:55:21,530
Speaker 2: unharmed Liliana with her family. We have the picture of that.

1172
00:55:22,050 --> 00:55:24,550
Speaker 1: Oh, wow. Oh, my God. Amazing.

1173
00:55:24,610 --> 00:55:26,130
Speaker 2: Look at that. Oh.

1174
00:55:27,870 --> 00:55:28,390
Speaker 1: Incredible.

1175
00:55:28,570 --> 00:55:32,060
Speaker 2: So this is incredible. And I think this is probably

1176
00:55:32,120 --> 00:55:35,700
Speaker 2: when the story and the whole idea, this is like

1177
00:55:35,739 --> 00:55:39,160
Speaker 2: a People magazine article waiting to happen at the Chicano squad, right?

1178
00:55:39,180 --> 00:55:39,259
Speaker 1: Yeah.

1179
00:55:39,670 --> 00:55:43,610
Speaker 2: In these amazing cases they've solved in these numbers. But

1180
00:55:44,070 --> 00:55:47,250
Speaker 2: we didn't hear about this or any of it because

1181
00:55:47,530 --> 00:55:51,590
Speaker 2: this all happens the same month that 18-month-old baby Jessica

1182
00:55:51,610 --> 00:55:52,670
Speaker 2: falls down the well.

1183
00:55:52,750 --> 00:55:54,410
Speaker 1: I was going to guess baby Jessica.

1184
00:55:54,430 --> 00:55:57,570
Speaker 2: Were you? Because that's also in Midland, Texas.

1185
00:55:57,770 --> 00:55:58,870
Speaker 1: Oh, right. Yeah.

1186
00:55:59,150 --> 00:55:59,850
Speaker 2: Wow.

1187
00:56:00,130 --> 00:56:02,290
Speaker 1: So it's like we only have room for one baby

1188
00:56:02,310 --> 00:56:04,469
Speaker 1: in peril. We only have room for a white baby.

1189
00:56:04,489 --> 00:56:05,610
Speaker 1: A white baby in peril.

1190
00:56:06,010 --> 00:56:09,569
Speaker 2: Well, also just the amount of coverage that went to

1191
00:56:09,630 --> 00:56:12,489
Speaker 2: that where it was breaking news, all cameras were on

1192
00:56:12,530 --> 00:56:16,200
Speaker 2: the well, the whole thing. Liliana's case can't fight through

1193
00:56:16,219 --> 00:56:19,140
Speaker 2: that also because she's Tejano. Right. If you would like

1194
00:56:19,180 --> 00:56:22,140
Speaker 2: to hear the story of baby Jessica, I did it

1195
00:56:22,239 --> 00:56:28,799
Speaker 2: in episode 221, Symbolic Violins. You remember. You remember. Four

1196
00:56:28,820 --> 00:56:34,140
Speaker 2: decades later. KPRC 2 News interviewed Liliana in 2024, and

1197
00:56:34,200 --> 00:56:37,240
Speaker 2: she's asked about the Chicano squad. And she says, quote,

1198
00:56:37,640 --> 00:56:39,939
Speaker 2: my mom made sure that I remembered for the rest

1199
00:56:39,980 --> 00:56:42,880
Speaker 2: of my life. She was like, this is what happened

1200
00:56:42,900 --> 00:56:45,120
Speaker 2: to you when you were a baby. You were a miracle.

1201
00:56:45,340 --> 00:56:47,560
Speaker 2: If it wasn't for them, you would not be here.

1202
00:56:48,219 --> 00:56:50,350
Speaker 2: That meant the world to me. And they know this.

1203
00:56:50,610 --> 00:56:52,910
Speaker 2: They will forever and ever be in my heart.

1204
00:56:53,110 --> 00:56:54,590
Speaker 1: Wow. End quote.

1205
00:56:55,570 --> 00:56:57,670
Speaker 2: I love that mom. She's like, I don't care. This

1206
00:56:57,930 --> 00:56:59,260
Speaker 2: is what I mean.

1207
00:57:00,219 --> 00:57:01,640
Speaker 1: You will remember. Yeah.

1208
00:57:02,540 --> 00:57:06,200
Speaker 2: So in 2010, after 30 years in operation and making

1209
00:57:06,260 --> 00:57:09,770
Speaker 2: history as the first bilingual police unit of its kind

1210
00:57:09,810 --> 00:57:13,450
Speaker 2: in the United States, the Chicano squad is officially disbanded.

1211
00:57:14,110 --> 00:57:17,140
Speaker 2: But it's not for a bad reason. Thanks to the

1212
00:57:17,180 --> 00:57:19,810
Speaker 2: hard work and sacrifices of the Chicano squad, of the

1213
00:57:19,850 --> 00:57:24,170
Speaker 2: original Chicano squad, the Houston Police Department has many Hispanic

1214
00:57:24,210 --> 00:57:28,490
Speaker 2: and Latino officers now in its ranks, including the police chief.

1215
00:57:28,870 --> 00:57:30,830
Speaker 2: So because of this, they just don't need to have

1216
00:57:30,850 --> 00:57:34,890
Speaker 2: a specialized Spanish-speaking unit anymore because a lot of their

1217
00:57:34,930 --> 00:57:36,030
Speaker 2: officers speak Spanish.

1218
00:57:36,230 --> 00:57:36,630
Speaker 1: Amazing.

1219
00:57:36,890 --> 00:57:40,130
Speaker 2: The original members of the Chicano squad are now all retired,

1220
00:57:40,670 --> 00:57:43,290
Speaker 2: and they respond to most praise by stating that they

1221
00:57:43,310 --> 00:57:46,990
Speaker 2: were simply doing their jobs. One exception is this quote

1222
00:57:47,110 --> 00:57:49,970
Speaker 2: from Jim Montero, the founder. He's the man that kind

1223
00:57:50,010 --> 00:57:53,210
Speaker 2: of made it all happen. And he said, quote, one

1224
00:57:53,250 --> 00:57:56,370
Speaker 2: thing I'm proud of is we never shot and killed anybody.

1225
00:57:57,430 --> 00:57:59,390
Speaker 1: Wow, that's powerful.

1226
00:57:59,670 --> 00:58:03,250
Speaker 2: Right? We made a lot of arrests but never had

1227
00:58:03,310 --> 00:58:08,360
Speaker 2: an officer involved shooting, end quote. Considering the culture at

1228
00:58:08,400 --> 00:58:11,180
Speaker 2: Houston PD when the task force first launched in the

1229
00:58:11,220 --> 00:58:16,200
Speaker 2: late 70s, this fact is incredible. Not only that, but

1230
00:58:16,520 --> 00:58:20,540
Speaker 2: the Chicano squad's clearance rate, which averaged overall in the

1231
00:58:20,960 --> 00:58:28,260
Speaker 2: 70th percentile, overall, reached an astonishing high of 91% cases

1232
00:58:28,380 --> 00:58:30,459
Speaker 2: cleared in 1997.

1233
00:58:30,460 --> 00:58:31,680
Speaker 1: Holy shit.

1234
00:58:32,030 --> 00:58:35,209
Speaker 2: And then in 2020, the Chicano squad receives a new

1235
00:58:35,290 --> 00:58:38,610
Speaker 2: wave of attention for their community-first approach to law enforcement

1236
00:58:39,210 --> 00:58:41,670
Speaker 2: after the murder of George Floyd at the hands of

1237
00:58:41,730 --> 00:58:47,940
Speaker 2: white Minneapolis police officers. There is a multi-part podcast about

1238
00:58:47,980 --> 00:58:52,260
Speaker 2: the Chicano squad that Vox Media put out. And A &

1239
00:58:51,900 --> 00:58:54,800
Speaker 2: E has a documentary about them where one of the

1240
00:58:54,860 --> 00:58:59,960
Speaker 2: executive producers is original task force member Joe Silvera's son, Sergio.

1241
00:59:00,100 --> 00:59:00,480
Speaker 1: Oh, wow.

1242
00:59:00,990 --> 00:59:03,970
Speaker 2: And he's quoted as saying, quote, I think the lack

1243
00:59:03,990 --> 00:59:06,810
Speaker 2: of trust comes when people don't feel the police are

1244
00:59:06,870 --> 00:59:09,490
Speaker 2: there to help them. That was one of the keys

1245
00:59:09,530 --> 00:59:09,970
Speaker 2: of the Chicano squad.

1246
00:59:10,310 --> 00:59:10,710
Speaker 1: Squad.

1247
00:59:11,110 --> 00:59:13,550
Speaker 2: The whole reason it worked was because they built a

1248
00:59:13,570 --> 00:59:17,860
Speaker 2: dialogue with the community and came in with the right attitude. Today,

1249
00:59:17,900 --> 00:59:22,020
Speaker 2: it seems that you're either pro-police or pro-community. The Chicano

1250
00:59:22,060 --> 00:59:24,820
Speaker 2: Squad is a great example of being both.

1251
00:59:25,360 --> 00:59:26,720
Speaker 1: Oh, my God. That's amazing.

1252
00:59:26,820 --> 00:59:32,410
Speaker 2: And that's the story of Houston's trailblazing, history-making Chicano Squad. Wow.

1253
00:59:32,570 --> 00:59:34,910
Speaker 1: I'm so glad you did that. That was so good. Right?

1254
00:59:35,590 --> 00:59:37,790
Speaker 1: I did not know that. I want to listen to

1255
00:59:37,810 --> 00:59:39,630
Speaker 1: that podcast series. I know.

1256
00:59:39,670 --> 00:59:39,930
Speaker 2: Me too.

1257
00:59:39,950 --> 00:59:40,690
Speaker 1: That's incredible.

1258
00:59:40,830 --> 00:59:41,450
Speaker 2: Very cool.

1259
00:59:41,810 --> 00:59:42,470
Speaker 1: Great job.

1260
00:59:42,630 --> 00:59:43,220
Speaker 2: Thank you.

1261
00:59:43,650 --> 00:59:45,910
Speaker 1: Can I do a fucking hooray? Absolutely.

1262
00:59:45,930 --> 00:59:46,610
Speaker 2: Okay.

1263
00:59:46,720 --> 00:59:54,320
Speaker 1: Fucking hooray to... 17 years of me being Mimi's person.

1264
00:59:54,950 --> 00:59:58,110
Speaker 1: We had to put her to sleep yesterday. I know.

1265
00:59:58,130 --> 01:00:00,130
Speaker 1: I know. I didn't want to tell you at the

1266
01:00:00,150 --> 01:00:01,890
Speaker 1: beginning and bum the whole thing out.

1267
01:00:01,910 --> 01:00:03,270
Speaker 2: I'm so sorry.

1268
01:00:03,750 --> 01:00:06,830
Speaker 1: But, no, she had the best fucking life. She really did.

1269
01:00:06,850 --> 01:00:11,190
Speaker 1: She was the funniest, sweetest cat. She was, yeah. It's

1270
01:00:11,210 --> 01:00:11,810
Speaker 1: so hard.

1271
01:00:11,850 --> 01:00:12,730
Speaker 2: We lost Mimi.

1272
01:00:12,770 --> 01:00:13,590
Speaker 1: We lost Mimi.

1273
01:00:13,750 --> 01:00:14,470
Speaker 2: I'm sorry.

1274
01:00:14,530 --> 01:00:16,450
Speaker 1: End of an era. It's so hard to lose a pet,

1275
01:00:16,490 --> 01:00:19,010
Speaker 1: but all I can think about is how lucky Mimi is.

1276
01:00:19,880 --> 01:00:21,660
Speaker 1: I was and we were to know her.

1277
01:00:21,980 --> 01:00:24,340
Speaker 2: Yes. Where did you get her? How did you get her?

1278
01:00:24,360 --> 01:00:27,020
Speaker 1: I actually, it's so weird. I got her at a Pasadena,

1279
01:00:27,320 --> 01:00:30,840
Speaker 1: I almost said flea market. That's absolutely not true. And

1280
01:00:30,860 --> 01:00:33,240
Speaker 1: she was covered in fleas. I got her at an

1281
01:00:33,340 --> 01:00:36,350
Speaker 1: animal shelter in Pasadena and it doesn't exist anymore. And

1282
01:00:36,370 --> 01:00:38,450
Speaker 1: so I was going to donate, say, let's donate to

1283
01:00:38,490 --> 01:00:41,590
Speaker 1: the Pasadena Humane Society. And then they randomly messaged me

1284
01:00:41,650 --> 01:00:44,740
Speaker 1: on Instagram today saying, Because they were doing a fundraiser

1285
01:00:45,050 --> 01:00:48,000
Speaker 1: of badly drawn animals and sent me a badly drawn

1286
01:00:48,040 --> 01:00:51,860
Speaker 1: photo of Mo and Cookie. So if we want to donate.

1287
01:00:52,000 --> 01:00:54,480
Speaker 2: In honor of the murderinos who love Mimi.

1288
01:00:54,540 --> 01:00:56,120
Speaker 1: That's right. Princess Mimi.

1289
01:00:56,800 --> 01:00:57,860
Speaker 2: She was a classic.

1290
01:00:57,930 --> 01:00:58,490
Speaker 1: She was.

1291
01:00:58,790 --> 01:01:00,170
Speaker 2: She was such a cat.

1292
01:01:00,390 --> 01:01:00,590
Speaker 1: Yeah.

1293
01:01:01,410 --> 01:01:03,200
Speaker 2: And a little mean, which I love.

1294
01:01:03,240 --> 01:01:06,080
Speaker 1: A little mean. I still have a scratch on my

1295
01:01:06,240 --> 01:01:07,260
Speaker 1: arm from her.

1296
01:01:07,620 --> 01:01:08,580
Speaker 2: May it never heal.

1297
01:01:08,600 --> 01:01:10,860
Speaker 1: Bite every now and then for no fucking reason.

1298
01:01:10,880 --> 01:01:12,990
Speaker 2: She was a little bit in a bad mood.

1299
01:01:13,070 --> 01:01:13,510
Speaker 1: Yeah.

1300
01:01:13,650 --> 01:01:14,770
Speaker 2: And she's a good girl.

1301
01:01:14,790 --> 01:01:15,430
Speaker 1: That's right.

1302
01:01:15,830 --> 01:01:16,490
Speaker 2: I'm sorry.

1303
01:01:16,530 --> 01:01:21,970
Speaker 1: Thank you. I'm lucky. Yeah. Okay. So we'll do $ 10, 000

1304
01:01:21,410 --> 01:01:25,600
Speaker 1: to the Pasadena Humane Society in honor of of murderinos

1305
01:01:25,880 --> 01:01:26,660
Speaker 1: who loved Mimi.

1306
01:01:26,800 --> 01:01:30,340
Speaker 2: Beautiful. Go adopt a mean little cat with a tiny mouth.

1307
01:01:30,360 --> 01:01:31,860
Speaker 1: With a grumpy mouth.

1308
01:01:31,880 --> 01:01:31,940
Speaker 2: Oh.

1309
01:01:31,940 --> 01:01:34,800
Speaker 1: She is so tiny. That's what was so great about her.

1310
01:01:34,840 --> 01:01:36,690
Speaker 1: She just looks so angry and upset all the time,

1311
01:01:36,730 --> 01:01:38,970
Speaker 1: but she loved me, so it was like an honor.

1312
01:01:39,190 --> 01:01:41,150
Speaker 2: Yeah, you won over a withholder.

1313
01:01:41,170 --> 01:01:41,790
Speaker 1: Totally.

1314
01:01:41,910 --> 01:01:42,810
Speaker 2: That's the goal in life.

1315
01:01:42,930 --> 01:01:44,070
Speaker 1: That's my only goal in life.

1316
01:01:45,730 --> 01:01:46,770
Speaker 2: Oh, sad.

1317
01:01:46,790 --> 01:01:49,390
Speaker 1: All right. Put her in an ex-towel with.

1318
01:01:50,590 --> 01:01:50,930
Speaker 2: Well.

1319
01:01:51,570 --> 01:01:53,550
Speaker 1: Well, great episode. Good job.

1320
01:01:54,170 --> 01:01:55,230
Speaker 2: This episode's for Mimi.

1321
01:01:55,290 --> 01:01:56,050
Speaker 1: This is for Mimi.

1322
01:01:56,550 --> 01:01:56,970
Speaker 2: Stay sexy.

1323
01:01:57,050 --> 01:02:01,660
Speaker 1: And don't get murdered. Goodbye. Elvis, do you want a cookie?

1324
01:02:09,630 --> 01:02:11,450
Speaker 2: This has been an Exactly Right production.

1325
01:02:11,650 --> 01:02:13,370
Speaker 1: Our managing producer is Molly Smith.

1326
01:02:13,590 --> 01:02:15,530
Speaker 2: Our consulting producer is Kate Schellenbach.

1327
01:02:15,650 --> 01:02:17,370
Speaker 1: Our creative lead is Allison Agosti.

1328
01:02:17,670 --> 01:02:20,430
Speaker 2: Our associate producer is Tessa Hughes, and our editor is

1329
01:02:20,550 --> 01:02:21,710
Speaker 2: Aristotle Acevedo.

1330
01:02:21,930 --> 01:02:24,050
Speaker 1: This episode was mixed by Liana Squalacci.

1331
01:02:24,230 --> 01:02:26,840
Speaker 2: Our researchers are Maren McGlashan and Allie Elkin.

1332
01:02:27,030 --> 01:02:30,640
Speaker 1: Email your hometowns to myfavoritemurder at gmail.com and follow the

1333
01:02:30,660 --> 01:02:33,840
Speaker 1: show on Instagram at myfavoritemurder. Listen to My Favorite Murder

1334
01:02:33,880 --> 01:02:36,900
Speaker 1: on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get

1335
01:02:36,920 --> 01:02:40,140
Speaker 1: your podcasts. Or watch new episodes every week on Netflix.

1336
01:02:40,420 --> 01:02:42,850
Speaker 1: Search for My Favorite Murder, add us to your list,

1337
01:02:42,970 --> 01:02:47,030
Speaker 1: and hit the double thumbs up button. Goodbye.