WEBVTT - Fire Drill 012: Dreamers and Shadows 0:00:03.680 --> 0:00:05.960 Even though this is not an open championship, it is 0:00:06.040 --> 0:00:09.639 open championship. You can be good enough at golf, even 0:00:09.680 --> 0:00:13.000 without any status on any tour anywhere in the world. 0:00:14.000 --> 0:00:15.960 You can be good enough at golf to play your 0:00:16.000 --> 0:00:24.000 way into this championship. Put another log on the fire 0:00:27.320 --> 0:00:35.320 What are here is get the time? Hello? This is 0:00:35.320 --> 0:00:38.760 Alan ship Nut back for another fire Drill podcast. I 0:00:38.760 --> 0:00:42.960 have a murderers row of a fire pit talent here 0:00:43.000 --> 0:00:48.120 on the line. Michael Bamberger, Ryan Frands Las Versaias gentlemen, 0:00:48.200 --> 0:00:52.840 thank you for being part of this. Thank you guys, 0:00:52.840 --> 0:00:55.160 thanks for having me on, always on it to be 0:00:55.200 --> 0:01:00.480 with you. That's a lie. So um. This is gonna 0:01:00.520 --> 0:01:04.880 be a PG Championship preview from a slightly different point 0:01:04.880 --> 0:01:08.200 of view. You know, Ryan, we want to get any 0:01:08.240 --> 0:01:09.840 thoughts you might have on some of the some of 0:01:09.840 --> 0:01:12.600 the folks in the field who the golf fans don't 0:01:12.600 --> 0:01:14.240 know that much about. You know, there's plenty of talk 0:01:14.480 --> 0:01:17.679 about Scottie Scheffler and John Ram and those homies, But 0:01:17.720 --> 0:01:19.440 are are there some names in this field that that 0:01:19.560 --> 0:01:23.760 jump out at you? Yeah? I mean I always take 0:01:23.800 --> 0:01:26.000 the angle of the of the people who will probably 0:01:26.000 --> 0:01:29.200 never be talked about Allen and probably never going to 0:01:29.280 --> 0:01:31.360 be in contention, although you know all of them. I 0:01:31.480 --> 0:01:34.280 talked to a couple of guys that I'll talk about quickly, 0:01:34.319 --> 0:01:38.440 but um, you know all of them have it's impossible 0:01:38.520 --> 0:01:41.600 to block out that, Like if they have the week 0:01:41.680 --> 0:01:45.200 of their lives, could they be in contention? Right? But Uh, 0:01:45.360 --> 0:01:48.640 talk to Casey Pine last night. Super interesting dude, I 0:01:48.640 --> 0:01:53.640 mean just very eccentric. Uh, really cool. Uh called me 0:01:53.680 --> 0:01:56.720 at eleven thirty last night and I was like, yeah, 0:01:56.760 --> 0:01:58.120 I'm up. Of course I'm up. I've been at the 0:01:58.120 --> 0:02:00.560 course all day. This is great. But an assistant pro 0:02:00.640 --> 0:02:02.560 in Delaware and then in the winter like kind of 0:02:02.560 --> 0:02:05.040 goes and chases his dreams. Got to final stage of 0:02:05.160 --> 0:02:09.240 Asian Q School twice. UM didn't get a full card. 0:02:09.360 --> 0:02:13.040 So because of a financial you know, financial lee that 0:02:13.120 --> 0:02:15.840 doesn't work, hanging out and waiting for Asian tour starts. 0:02:15.880 --> 0:02:19.720 Came back and has done it. But just like one year, 0:02:20.000 --> 0:02:23.720 went to uh an event in Kansas City. His friend 0:02:23.720 --> 0:02:26.360 bailed on a place that he could stay and he 0:02:26.400 --> 0:02:29.880 had bought a twenty four hour UM passed to a 0:02:29.960 --> 0:02:32.119 gym and and just went and slept in the gym 0:02:32.160 --> 0:02:34.240 until he got kicked out of there, and and I 0:02:34.280 --> 0:02:36.240 was like, is that bad? And he's like, this is great. 0:02:36.320 --> 0:02:38.200 I love every part of that. He lived in his 0:02:38.280 --> 0:02:42.960 car for six weeks. Uh read that Hogan drank a 0:02:42.960 --> 0:02:46.919 bunch of caffeine before events, so did that and had 0:02:46.919 --> 0:02:49.520 to shake so bad, you know, couldn't put It's just 0:02:49.560 --> 0:02:54.760 a really weird, eccentric, awesome dude. And uh uh he 0:02:54.800 --> 0:02:56.200 said where do you get I asked him where he 0:02:56.240 --> 0:02:57.680 got it? He said, I've been working on my putting. 0:02:57.680 --> 0:02:59.200 I said where did you Where do you you know? 0:02:59.240 --> 0:03:00.880 Who do you work with? And he said, I worked 0:03:00.919 --> 0:03:03.760 with YouTube. I do a lot of YouTube clips on 0:03:03.800 --> 0:03:08.079 Tiger and so, uh, super good dude. And then Jared Jones. 0:03:08.840 --> 0:03:11.680 You know, I think a lot of people just don't 0:03:11.680 --> 0:03:14.239 realize how hard pro golf is. I mean, Jared Jones 0:03:14.280 --> 0:03:18.040 was like a very decorated amateur player as a junior, 0:03:18.360 --> 0:03:21.359 went to Ohio State for four years. I mean, I 0:03:21.520 --> 0:03:24.280 was on the team and everybody knows that the history 0:03:24.280 --> 0:03:27.480 of Ohio State. I mean, and didn't couldn't cut it, 0:03:27.880 --> 0:03:30.560 you know, couldn't crack an egg at the pro level. Um, 0:03:30.600 --> 0:03:33.080 but has a very interesting he was he caddied for 0:03:33.200 --> 0:03:36.600 Jack Nicholas when Jack did the redesign of the Scarlet 0:03:36.640 --> 0:03:40.200 Course at Ohio State, and uh they had an opening 0:03:40.240 --> 0:03:43.560 ceremonial round and and Jared Um caddy for him. But 0:03:43.640 --> 0:03:46.440 thirty six years old and this is his first, his 0:03:46.480 --> 0:03:48.560 first p J start, and you know, he was just like, 0:03:48.600 --> 0:03:52.560 I'm soaking up everything said yesterday he uh, he ran 0:03:52.600 --> 0:03:54.840 into Uh he was playing with some club pros in 0:03:54.840 --> 0:03:57.200 a practice round. They stopped after nine. He went on 0:03:57.800 --> 0:04:01.000 and met Ricky and Jason Duff and 're on on 0:04:01.240 --> 0:04:03.320 ten and played the back night with him, and he's like, 0:04:03.440 --> 0:04:05.680 you know, I'm I'm a golf nerd. It's the coolest 0:04:05.680 --> 0:04:08.680 thing ever. So uh, you know this will be like 0:04:08.720 --> 0:04:12.880 the pinnacle of most of those guys career. Uh. And 0:04:12.920 --> 0:04:15.760 it's it's just super cool, you know. It's just that's 0:04:16.000 --> 0:04:20.719 kind of the side I obviously focus on. And um, 0:04:20.760 --> 0:04:24.760 it's just a super cool part of golf that is 0:04:24.800 --> 0:04:28.560 not I always say the same thing. It's like, you 0:04:28.600 --> 0:04:30.719 don't get a chance to have a free throw contest, 0:04:30.760 --> 0:04:33.159 to play for the Lakers for a week, and and 0:04:33.200 --> 0:04:36.159 these are just like regular regular Joe's and now they're 0:04:36.160 --> 0:04:37.839 going to play in one of the four biggest tournaments 0:04:37.839 --> 0:04:40.560 in golf. It's just very cool. Yeah, I like that 0:04:40.720 --> 0:04:43.080 for for Michael and Las. I mean, there's there's always 0:04:43.080 --> 0:04:46.239 debate about should they reduce the number of club pros 0:04:46.320 --> 0:04:50.279 or those guys taking the spots of more seasoned touring players, 0:04:50.320 --> 0:04:52.960 But this is the one week all year we really 0:04:53.000 --> 0:04:55.480 celebrate the guys in in the pro shop, right, who 0:04:55.480 --> 0:04:57.560 are are in a huge part of of of the 0:04:57.600 --> 0:05:00.080 sport and they're the ones who cure your slice and 0:05:00.360 --> 0:05:02.800 they get you deal a new driver, and like they're 0:05:02.839 --> 0:05:05.080 they're the lifeblood for a lot of people's golf experience 0:05:05.120 --> 0:05:07.080 and I think it's kind of cool that that we 0:05:07.120 --> 0:05:09.840 give them this this this stage. And you know, with 0:05:09.960 --> 0:05:13.440 with twenty more players from the bottom of the PGA tour, 0:05:13.600 --> 0:05:15.320 you know, if money list make a huge difference in 0:05:15.320 --> 0:05:17.159 this tournament, probably not, but it gives a little a 0:05:17.160 --> 0:05:19.400 little heart and soul to this event. But what does 0:05:19.440 --> 0:05:22.920 your guys take on on where the club pros fit in? Well, 0:05:22.960 --> 0:05:27.000 you know, I think it's to me, it's always interesting 0:05:27.040 --> 0:05:29.880 to see there are so many different classes. I think 0:05:29.880 --> 0:05:36.200 there's twenty four different classifications of PGA professionals, ranging from 0:05:36.320 --> 0:05:39.120 what we think of as being like the director of 0:05:39.200 --> 0:05:44.520 golf or head professional, all the way down through club fitters, 0:05:44.760 --> 0:05:52.839 um you know, merchandizers, teaching professionals. All of those different 0:05:52.920 --> 0:05:58.120 specialties within the profession can qualify UM for PGA membership. 0:05:58.839 --> 0:06:03.359 And it's not often you get like an actual shirt 0:06:03.440 --> 0:06:06.640 folding assistant in the event. A lot of these guys 0:06:07.160 --> 0:06:10.320 spend a lot more time, you know, teaching on the range, 0:06:11.080 --> 0:06:14.360 helping us get better. So maybe not the traditional pro 0:06:14.520 --> 0:06:17.360 that we're thinking of, you know, answering the phone, kind 0:06:17.360 --> 0:06:21.479 of running the tournament, but um, you know this is 0:06:23.279 --> 0:06:26.279 it's also like an homage to the profession, you know, 0:06:26.400 --> 0:06:29.240 to the actual PGA of America, to say, like, you know, 0:06:30.080 --> 0:06:32.680 this is the roots of the professional game in America. 0:06:33.480 --> 0:06:36.839 It's always been kind of a quirky major for me 0:06:36.920 --> 0:06:40.640 at least, but I love to see it. Um you know, 0:06:41.040 --> 0:06:44.160 Illinois coach Mike Small is kind of my favorite of 0:06:44.200 --> 0:06:47.279 the PGA pros that kind of pops in and and 0:06:47.360 --> 0:06:49.520 makes a run at it, So I enjoy it as 0:06:49.560 --> 0:06:52.960 a as a former club pro. For me, it's it's 0:06:53.040 --> 0:06:55.120 fun to see some names pop up that I see 0:06:55.120 --> 0:06:59.880 again and again. UM, and some of them can really play, 0:07:00.200 --> 0:07:04.400 so so it's a real threat to watch it. Yeah, 0:07:04.400 --> 0:07:06.440 I would agree with all that. And then to Ryan's 0:07:06.480 --> 0:07:08.640 point when he's citing the names of these players, I've 0:07:08.640 --> 0:07:10.520 never heard of either of those names. Ryan, that that 0:07:10.600 --> 0:07:13.160 you just mentioned. But even though this is not an 0:07:13.160 --> 0:07:17.000 open championship is open championship. You can be good enough 0:07:17.000 --> 0:07:20.320 at golf to even without any status on any tour 0:07:20.520 --> 0:07:23.400 anywhere in the world, you can be good enough at 0:07:23.400 --> 0:07:26.920 golf to play your way into this championship like those 0:07:26.960 --> 0:07:29.520 two guys did. So that's really cool. And Ryan to 0:07:29.680 --> 0:07:33.080 at last year point about about Mike Small and you'll 0:07:33.080 --> 0:07:35.440 all remember this name, but Jim Alvis was a real 0:07:35.520 --> 0:07:37.800 club pro. He ran Piping Rock and he ran a 0:07:37.800 --> 0:07:40.680 golf course at Satan before that, and he qualified I 0:07:40.680 --> 0:07:43.280 don't know the number for numerous PJA championships and turned 0:07:43.280 --> 0:07:44.880 fifty and he quit that and then he was a 0:07:44.920 --> 0:07:48.040 stud on the senior tour. So he was load and 0:07:48.080 --> 0:07:49.680 load and load to a game. Just never had the 0:07:49.680 --> 0:07:51.480 opportunity to play the pH A Tour. But there are 0:07:51.480 --> 0:07:53.720 many different paths, and the four of us would be 0:07:53.760 --> 0:07:56.440 examples of the steward. There are many different paths to 0:07:57.240 --> 0:08:00.440 making this game part of your life, and this week 0:08:00.480 --> 0:08:02.920 does celebrate those guys. And just one of the quick note, 0:08:03.200 --> 0:08:04.680 and this kind of relates to what Phil has been 0:08:04.680 --> 0:08:08.040 talking about of late, this PGA Tour that we're so 0:08:08.600 --> 0:08:10.920 interested and talk about all the time. It's a breakaway 0:08:10.920 --> 0:08:12.800 to her from the PGA of America. And that only 0:08:12.840 --> 0:08:15.640 happened in ye It's not like it's a hundred years ago. 0:08:16.360 --> 0:08:20.160 Um So the historic ties between the PGA Tour and 0:08:20.240 --> 0:08:22.880 PGA of America, that's a very real thing. And for 0:08:22.920 --> 0:08:25.800 this one week to bring the two together is new inappropriate. 0:08:27.200 --> 0:08:31.080 And I'll quickly add there was a great article Allen 0:08:31.160 --> 0:08:34.880 about from Shane Ryan about uh, you know, club pros 0:08:34.920 --> 0:08:38.679 and and it's it's a dying profession. Assistant pros make 0:08:39.200 --> 0:08:43.439 no money and unreal hours and the growth of golf 0:08:43.480 --> 0:08:46.600 and obviously we it's kind of I I kind of 0:08:46.600 --> 0:08:52.560 compared to Twitter. Twitter is great kind of make Uh 0:08:52.640 --> 0:08:55.920 they're probably probably level field. So the article really went 0:08:55.960 --> 0:08:57.959 into the you know that there's a lot of pain 0:08:58.000 --> 0:09:00.800 in the ask members and these these guys are making 0:09:00.840 --> 0:09:03.360 thirty grand a year, thirty five grand a year and 0:09:03.440 --> 0:09:06.640 quitting like crazy. They can't even fill the job. So, um, 0:09:06.800 --> 0:09:09.200 I think it's an important week to to just that 0:09:09.320 --> 0:09:12.880 this profession is not very glamorous at all. A lot 0:09:12.920 --> 0:09:15.400 of these guys are director of golf and director of 0:09:15.440 --> 0:09:19.199 instruction and living a pretty good life. But they all 0:09:19.440 --> 0:09:22.079 most of them lived, you know, an assistant pro and 0:09:22.200 --> 0:09:25.920 some very obscure club that we've never heard of, making 0:09:26.160 --> 0:09:28.720 thirty grand to get where they are. So um, I 0:09:28.720 --> 0:09:31.000 think it's just an important Uh, it was an important 0:09:31.040 --> 0:09:33.160 article to talk about this side of golf. It's a 0:09:33.200 --> 0:09:36.440 it's a dying part of golf. Well, I also, I 0:09:36.480 --> 0:09:40.920 don't know, you know, I think that it used to 0:09:40.960 --> 0:09:43.160 be that you would call the shop to make a 0:09:43.200 --> 0:09:46.640 tea time, and now, as the saying goes, there's an 0:09:46.640 --> 0:09:49.360 app for that. It used to be that if you 0:09:49.520 --> 0:09:53.600 had a snap hook that you needed cured, you'd go 0:09:53.679 --> 0:09:56.600 get a lesson at the club. Now there's an app 0:09:56.640 --> 0:10:01.480 for that. So the profession itself is is going the 0:10:01.520 --> 0:10:04.280 way of the travel agent. You know, it used to 0:10:04.320 --> 0:10:08.720 be that people actually bought clubs from the professional who 0:10:08.800 --> 0:10:13.040 often own the shop. But the second they could save 0:10:13.200 --> 0:10:17.439 nineteen on a five dollar set of irons, they would 0:10:17.440 --> 0:10:23.280 do that. So, you know, people have not supported their 0:10:23.520 --> 0:10:29.080 shops and and and their local prosum in in a 0:10:29.120 --> 0:10:35.240 way that you know, maybe the profession needs because of 0:10:35.440 --> 0:10:41.880 competition from big box stores, because of technology. So, um, 0:10:41.920 --> 0:10:44.680 this has been writing on the wall since I worked 0:10:44.679 --> 0:10:46.800 in the back room in Town and Country in nineteen 0:10:46.880 --> 0:10:50.200 ninety when the big you know people would show up 0:10:50.240 --> 0:10:53.520 with boxes and say, hey, you know, here's my here's 0:10:53.559 --> 0:10:56.240 the clubs I just got down the street at Nevada 0:10:56.280 --> 0:10:59.440 Bob's and they would ham them to the pro. Could 0:10:59.440 --> 0:11:01.520 you just throw the box away for me and switch 0:11:01.559 --> 0:11:04.480 them out and maybe take my old clubs and give 0:11:04.559 --> 0:11:07.040 them to a caddy or something. And and the pro 0:11:07.160 --> 0:11:10.480 who owns the shop with these same clubs and stock, 0:11:11.880 --> 0:11:14.000 it's going to have to eat the cost of those 0:11:14.000 --> 0:11:19.920 clubs because no one's going to buy them from him anymore. So, um, 0:11:19.920 --> 0:11:22.360 this this has been coming down the pipeline for a while. 0:11:22.720 --> 0:11:28.920 And when most professions and most careers are threatened like that, 0:11:29.000 --> 0:11:33.040 they will make adjustments to survive and be more relevant. 0:11:33.640 --> 0:11:37.000 So what you saw was the PGA tour starting to 0:11:37.120 --> 0:11:40.559 special Sorry, the PGA of America is starting to specialize 0:11:40.559 --> 0:11:44.520 the profession. So okay, Ryan French, look you're not only 0:11:44.559 --> 0:11:47.000 going to be a pg A professional. You're gonna be 0:11:47.000 --> 0:11:50.080 a PGA professional with with an emphasis on food and 0:11:50.120 --> 0:11:53.920 beverage or with an emphasis on general management. So now 0:11:54.640 --> 0:11:58.800 we're going to put more duties on your shoulders, hence 0:11:59.360 --> 0:12:04.680 more time at the job. More um, more touch places 0:12:04.800 --> 0:12:08.480 in in the clubhouse, whether you know it's it's the 0:12:08.559 --> 0:12:12.320 food or the operations of the ground screw now falls 0:12:12.360 --> 0:12:15.960 on you. So um, it's been coming for a while, 0:12:16.440 --> 0:12:19.520 and and it's it's sad to see that the reaction 0:12:19.720 --> 0:12:23.400 that the p g A had um which was to 0:12:23.520 --> 0:12:28.840 develop this professional golf management program. So now I, as 0:12:28.880 --> 0:12:32.280 a graduating senior in high school, can go to Fair 0:12:32.520 --> 0:12:35.199 Estate or Clemson and do a four year p g 0:12:35.360 --> 0:12:38.680 A program. And here I come out at age two, 0:12:38.960 --> 0:12:43.880 and I they expect me to be a class APGA 0:12:44.000 --> 0:12:47.120 member who can handle the rigors of of a job 0:12:47.160 --> 0:12:49.800 that's not that easy and certainly not that easy for 0:12:50.600 --> 0:12:55.320 two year old kid who very likely you know is 0:12:55.320 --> 0:12:58.400 in it because he loves golf, not necessarily because he 0:12:58.559 --> 0:13:05.480 loves managing people where he understands operational excellence. So you 0:13:05.559 --> 0:13:08.400 kind of make your own bed in this world. Yeah, 0:13:08.640 --> 0:13:11.240 you know, it's just when I think about the all 0:13:11.280 --> 0:13:13.959 the class A pros out there my three summers and 0:13:14.040 --> 0:13:16.040 as a cartboy at Pebble Beach, I saw this play 0:13:16.080 --> 0:13:19.120 at a few times. You had to pass the player 0:13:19.160 --> 0:13:21.560 ability tests and I can't remember the numbers. I think 0:13:21.559 --> 0:13:24.880 you had to shoot like seventy five or something around there. 0:13:25.240 --> 0:13:28.440 And the stress on these guys. They've done all the 0:13:28.480 --> 0:13:31.600 classroom work, they've got all the qualifications and they have 0:13:31.679 --> 0:13:34.480 to go out and pass this test and it's very unforgiving. 0:13:34.520 --> 0:13:36.000 You know, It's just it's just a number you got 0:13:36.000 --> 0:13:38.160 to shoot and there's no wiggle room. And these were 0:13:38.200 --> 0:13:41.800 good players, but you know, guys would wash out and 0:13:41.800 --> 0:13:44.000 they'd have to wait however many months to try again, 0:13:44.080 --> 0:13:46.440 and it was like it was it was this. It 0:13:46.480 --> 0:13:49.520 was almost kind of cruel because if you can shoot 0:13:49.520 --> 0:13:51.599 seventy seven seventy seven, you're still a good player and 0:13:51.600 --> 0:13:53.880 you can still be a good head pro somewhere. But no, 0:13:53.960 --> 0:13:55.959 you gotta get you gotta hit the number, or that 0:13:56.040 --> 0:13:58.280 doesn't count. And like to me, that was like really 0:13:58.360 --> 0:14:01.679 high stakes golf. And I was sort fascinated, as as 0:14:01.679 --> 0:14:03.640 a teenage I don't really understand how it all work, 0:14:03.679 --> 0:14:06.760 which is the this is like a life changing thing. 0:14:06.840 --> 0:14:09.280 They go out and shoot these numbers, and that's always 0:14:09.320 --> 0:14:13.360 stuck with me. It's so interesting what what what Las 0:14:13.760 --> 0:14:17.320 was saying there, Because of course there's the economics of 0:14:17.400 --> 0:14:20.600 the whole business that Las is addressing, and then there's 0:14:20.640 --> 0:14:22.800 also as he's as he was talking about, I'm thinking 0:14:22.800 --> 0:14:25.000 about the texture of the game has changed a lot 0:14:25.040 --> 0:14:29.400 because you really there are fewer humor interactions with club 0:14:29.440 --> 0:14:32.800 pros because you're doing so much online. And uh, and 0:14:32.840 --> 0:14:34.480 we say that in every walk of life. I mean 0:14:34.520 --> 0:14:36.240 even you know, when you're on the turnpike and you 0:14:36.240 --> 0:14:37.880 go to pay your toll, well you don't talk to 0:14:37.960 --> 0:14:39.520 human being at all. Of course, you just go right 0:14:39.520 --> 0:14:43.000 through the easy pass. Uh. And that has actually affected 0:14:43.000 --> 0:14:45.560 the uh, the texture of the game. Or like when 0:14:45.640 --> 0:14:48.560 Ryan's talking about this, Uh, I think the assistant pro 0:14:48.600 --> 0:14:52.560 from Delaware who's getting his pustle punting lesson not from 0:14:52.560 --> 0:14:56.240 his buddy but from YouTube. And that's none of this 0:14:56.320 --> 0:14:59.720 is helping the game or society, this lack of the 0:15:00.000 --> 0:15:03.280 placky humor interaction. So it's, um, I never thought about 0:15:03.360 --> 0:15:06.680 last what you just said until until just now. But uh, 0:15:06.720 --> 0:15:09.400 you know, part of the texture of Club life, especially 0:15:09.800 --> 0:15:12.520 at a fancy club where even at Immunity was guys 0:15:12.600 --> 0:15:15.000 hanging out and talking. And I don't mean guys anybody, 0:15:15.040 --> 0:15:19.480 you know, kids and whomever. And there's less of that 0:15:19.520 --> 0:15:23.120 now and I don't think society is better for it. Yeah, 0:15:23.200 --> 0:15:26.440 that's that's well said. UM, I want to switch gears 0:15:26.440 --> 0:15:28.880 a little bit. You know. Um, Michael and I did 0:15:28.880 --> 0:15:30.920 a podcast with Jeff Ogilvie and we really got into 0:15:30.920 --> 0:15:33.200 Southern Hills as a golf course and as a as 0:15:33.200 --> 0:15:38.320 an incredible test and all those things. But uh, I 0:15:38.360 --> 0:15:42.160 wanted to talk a little more big picture here. You know, Michael, 0:15:42.200 --> 0:15:44.000 I have discussed many times like the one of the 0:15:44.000 --> 0:15:45.640 pleasures of this job is that it takes us to 0:15:45.640 --> 0:15:47.920 places we probably wouldn't get to otherwise, and you get 0:15:47.920 --> 0:15:51.960 to explore a place like Tulsa. UM, for Ryan is 0:15:51.960 --> 0:15:54.640 at Midwestern I want you to speak to what it 0:15:54.680 --> 0:15:56.600 means to have, you know, one of these big, huge 0:15:56.600 --> 0:15:59.960 tournaments come to uh, you know, not a booming which 0:16:00.000 --> 0:16:02.960 Propolis and and then Laza's. I know you've been tracking 0:16:03.000 --> 0:16:04.920 this for a while, but you know, Tulsa has its 0:16:05.000 --> 0:16:09.120 own unique history, and UM, if we can get into 0:16:09.120 --> 0:16:11.680 some of that as well as the complexion of the 0:16:11.680 --> 0:16:14.200 city and and some of the some of the darker 0:16:14.240 --> 0:16:17.600 shadows that that are around Tolls through the years, and 0:16:17.600 --> 0:16:20.240 and how maybe this uh Gulf it plays a role 0:16:20.240 --> 0:16:23.120 in all that. But what to start with, Ryan, Like, 0:16:23.440 --> 0:16:26.000 what does it mean to Tulsa when a PG championship 0:16:26.160 --> 0:16:31.360 blows into town? Yeah, I mean I think, Um, you know, 0:16:31.400 --> 0:16:33.680 I called you and I talked on the phone yesterday 0:16:33.720 --> 0:16:36.400 and you flew into Oklahoma City, Like how many majors 0:16:36.400 --> 0:16:39.440 have you had to fly into a different city and 0:16:39.480 --> 0:16:42.640 then drive to Like it just it doesn't happen very often, 0:16:42.920 --> 0:16:45.680 and so it's the only show in town. I mean, 0:16:45.960 --> 0:16:48.440 Bunky Perkins is a great follow and I mean, like 0:16:48.520 --> 0:16:51.200 he was listing places that you would go and hidden 0:16:51.240 --> 0:16:53.280 gems and Tulsa and those kind of things. It's just 0:16:54.080 --> 0:16:56.640 it's pretty I mean, Tulsa is a big city, but 0:16:57.320 --> 0:16:59.200 in the scheme of things, in the scheme of majors, 0:16:59.240 --> 0:17:02.320 it's not very big. And um, it's just cool to 0:17:02.360 --> 0:17:04.560 see a place where it's the only show in town, 0:17:04.680 --> 0:17:08.960 and it's just it's pretty rare. So um. Obviously, Michael's 0:17:09.080 --> 0:17:11.040 article about how we got here and all those kind 0:17:11.040 --> 0:17:13.800 of things is is it great of how we got here, 0:17:13.800 --> 0:17:16.480 but just Tulsa on its own, is it's cool to 0:17:16.560 --> 0:17:21.840 see a Midwestern you know, blue collar ish type city 0:17:22.080 --> 0:17:25.760 have the only show in town. The the LPGA did 0:17:25.800 --> 0:17:29.520 that for years. Uh. It went to places that you know, 0:17:29.640 --> 0:17:33.160 didn't have NBA teams, in Major League Baseball teams and 0:17:33.359 --> 0:17:36.280 uh and it worked. It was the only show in town. 0:17:36.560 --> 0:17:39.760 And it's neat when you know, professional men's majors golf 0:17:39.760 --> 0:17:43.119 doesn't do it very often, although in a sense Augusta 0:17:43.200 --> 0:17:45.280 does it every year. I mean, would we ever go 0:17:45.320 --> 0:17:47.080 to Augusta, Georgia where not for the fact that it 0:17:47.119 --> 0:17:51.560 has the Master's uh no, um and or you know 0:17:52.280 --> 0:17:56.200 Manchester for Ryder Cups. Now, so it is neat how 0:17:57.000 --> 0:17:58.840 golf can be the only show in town and bring 0:17:58.880 --> 0:18:04.960 the whole world um into that town for a week. Yeah, Tulsa, 0:18:05.320 --> 0:18:11.320 you know, has a unique UM. It's curious to me 0:18:11.440 --> 0:18:17.119 that it's it's this is a tough thing to talk about, 0:18:17.359 --> 0:18:22.840 um because I was sitting working on a piece about 0:18:22.880 --> 0:18:28.360 a man named Bill Spiller. So Bill Spiller is largely 0:18:28.480 --> 0:18:35.520 viewed as the the primary man who who who broke 0:18:35.600 --> 0:18:38.800 down the Caucasian only clause He was the person that 0:18:38.840 --> 0:18:43.040 went toe to toe with the As Michael mentioned earlier 0:18:43.080 --> 0:18:46.280 in nineteen sixty one, you know, the PGA Tour and 0:18:46.320 --> 0:18:51.080 the PGA were together, they were one, there were one entity, 0:18:51.320 --> 0:18:55.080 um and they had a Caucasian only claus and Bill 0:18:55.080 --> 0:18:59.520 Spiller was the man that challenged it. Um. He was 0:18:59.560 --> 0:19:02.280 the one that kicked down that door so that so 0:19:02.400 --> 0:19:04.720 that people of color could play on the on the 0:19:04.760 --> 0:19:11.280 p G A tour. Um. He's from Tulsa and from Tulsa, 0:19:11.440 --> 0:19:15.199 I mean you know, he moved there, uh when he 0:19:15.280 --> 0:19:19.520 was eight years old. And this is in nineteen twenty one, 0:19:19.600 --> 0:19:24.800 just after, just after the Tulsa Race Ride massacre. So 0:19:25.560 --> 0:19:31.960 for those that are unfamiliar, um in UM one to 0:19:32.119 --> 0:19:39.280 June one, the you know, black people were killed in 0:19:39.680 --> 0:19:44.399 large numbers. People flew planes and dropped bombs on them 0:19:44.720 --> 0:19:50.359 and destroyed the primary black neighborhood in Tulsa. And it's 0:19:51.000 --> 0:19:55.480 things like that on the shoulders of years of Jim Crow, 0:19:55.680 --> 0:20:00.320 on the shoulders of failed reconstruction, still dealing with the 0:20:00.359 --> 0:20:05.560 residue of slavery. And it's things like this that that 0:20:05.600 --> 0:20:08.159 make people want to leave the South and go to 0:20:08.240 --> 0:20:11.239 places like Chicago and New York and St. Louis, and 0:20:11.240 --> 0:20:16.199 in Bill Spiller's case, he goes to Los Angeles. Um, 0:20:16.240 --> 0:20:19.880 we were lucky enough to get into the California African 0:20:19.880 --> 0:20:25.320 American Museum where they have a they had a collection 0:20:25.640 --> 0:20:29.080 and it was called the African American move West, and 0:20:29.160 --> 0:20:32.399 it kind of brings forth many of these artifacts that 0:20:32.480 --> 0:20:35.320 people had as they as they left the South. So 0:20:35.359 --> 0:20:38.440 we had Bill Spiller's foot locker and his golf bag 0:20:38.600 --> 0:20:45.880 and his son and we we were we were sitting 0:20:46.640 --> 0:20:49.320 and I was taking notes to to talk to him 0:20:49.320 --> 0:20:52.880 about you know, were these were there any stories? Did 0:20:52.920 --> 0:20:55.240 anyone share things with you when you were a kid 0:20:55.240 --> 0:20:57.960 about what it was like? And he said, you know 0:20:58.040 --> 0:21:02.360 how it is. You know that generation didn't share those stories. 0:21:03.400 --> 0:21:09.200 And I thought, you know, what a tragedy because here 0:21:09.240 --> 0:21:13.119 now in Buffalo, we've got another race massacre in a 0:21:13.160 --> 0:21:16.560 grocery store where someone goes in with a gun and 0:21:16.760 --> 0:21:21.000 kills ten black people. So it was really heavy to 0:21:21.200 --> 0:21:24.760 deal with looking at that piece of history and and 0:21:24.760 --> 0:21:28.400 and seeing it kind of repeat itself again in Buffalo, 0:21:28.440 --> 0:21:31.720 New York. Sadly, but I asked him, you know, we 0:21:31.800 --> 0:21:38.080 talked about um, how his father was in the posthumously 0:21:38.560 --> 0:21:43.520 granted membership to the PJ of America, was inducted into 0:21:43.560 --> 0:21:47.879 the Oklahoma Golf Hall of Fame. And he didn't really 0:21:48.440 --> 0:21:51.000 he never played golf when he was in Oklahoma. Ever, 0:21:51.800 --> 0:21:54.359 he started playing golf when he got to Los Angeles 0:21:55.359 --> 0:22:02.320 at age. So it's well, you know, it was just 0:22:02.400 --> 0:22:05.160 kind of a heavy thing to talk about, uh and 0:22:05.160 --> 0:22:08.200 and yeah, but it's it's important, it's important to bring 0:22:08.240 --> 0:22:11.960 this up. Yeah, it's it's important to know that you 0:22:12.000 --> 0:22:16.080 know that these things happened. We'll be I'll be curious 0:22:16.160 --> 0:22:20.280 if if there's any acknowledgment on the telecast, because you know, 0:22:20.320 --> 0:22:23.960 it's a it's a failure of of you know, various 0:22:24.000 --> 0:22:27.520 school systems that I never heard about the Tulsa race 0:22:27.600 --> 0:22:31.960 massacres in school is only in the last fifteen twenty 0:22:32.040 --> 0:22:34.439 years and it even became aware of that such thing 0:22:34.440 --> 0:22:37.399 had happened. And it seems like, you know, we just 0:22:37.440 --> 0:22:39.359 we had to have the Hunter Anniversary last year, and 0:22:39.359 --> 0:22:40.800 it was something that was talked about in a lot 0:22:40.840 --> 0:22:44.160 of different places. And it''s almost like taking a full 0:22:44.160 --> 0:22:47.760 century for for you know, a public awakening and reckoning 0:22:47.760 --> 0:22:52.040 and uh not to say that it's a. The this 0:22:52.040 --> 0:22:57.119 this championship tournament has hasn't anything to do with you know, 0:22:57.640 --> 0:23:00.760 telling that story in a broadway. But when when you 0:23:00.760 --> 0:23:04.320 come into a place like Tulsa, uh in you're you're 0:23:04.359 --> 0:23:06.200