Speaker 1: You're listening to the Sportsman's Nation podcast network, brought to
Speaker 1: you by go Wild. Now. The go Wild app has
Speaker 1: added some really cool and exciting functionality to their app,
Speaker 1: and the first one I want to talk about is
Speaker 1: the near me function and basically what this does. It
Speaker 1: allows you to engage and connect with people in your area.
Speaker 1: You guys can talk about gear you guys can talk
Speaker 1: about hunting areas, you guys can talk about what's going
Speaker 1: on in the woods, and it just allows the users
Speaker 1: to be more of a community and connect easier. The
Speaker 1: second part is the gearbox and what the gearboxes. It
Speaker 1: is a an opportunity for the users to not only
Speaker 1: see reviews on products and see what the go wild
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Speaker 1: but it also allows you guys to purchase up to
Speaker 1: a hundred and fifty thousand products. There's there's a shopping
Speaker 1: action on it. So check out the go Wild app.
Speaker 1: If you haven't downloaded it to your phone yet, you
Speaker 1: need to and you can do that at any app
Speaker 1: store that is currently available. Go Wild It's an awesome app.
Speaker 1: Check them out. My name is Clay Nukeleman. I'm the
Speaker 1: host of the Bear Hunting Magazine podcast. I'll also be
Speaker 1: your host into the world of hunting the icon of
Speaker 1: the North American wilderness, the bear. We'll talk about tactics,
Speaker 1: gear conservation, but will also bring you into some of
Speaker 1: the wildest country on the planet chasing bears. If you've
Speaker 1: grown up around squirrel dogs your whole life, you're probably
Speaker 1: gonna learn a few things on this podcast. But really
Speaker 1: what we're trying to do is open up the squirrel
Speaker 1: dog world two people who have not had an entry
Speaker 1: point into squirrel hunting. Sometimes sometimes the first step into
Speaker 1: getting into something is the hardest one and so and
Speaker 1: you need just somebody to break it down. So that's
Speaker 1: what we tried to do inside of this to talk
Speaker 1: about the different breeds of squirrel dogs, how they hunt,
Speaker 1: and then the different registries of squirrel dogs. And that's
Speaker 1: important because the registry has given indication of where you
Speaker 1: would get these and you need to understand a little
Speaker 1: bit about if you go to a breeder and he
Speaker 1: says these dogs are registered with such and such registry,
Speaker 1: you have a kind of a framework for what that means.
Speaker 1: My buddy Michael and there summed it up pretty well.
Speaker 1: At the end of this podcast and he said this.
Speaker 1: He said, basically, there are fists and there are curves,
Speaker 1: and inside of the fist and the curves, there are
Speaker 1: multiple types of fice and multiple types of curves. But
Speaker 1: square rol hunting is a very fun and engaging way
Speaker 1: to acquire wild protein into hunt our public lands or
Speaker 1: private lands. And it's an opportunity event in most most states,
Speaker 1: like in Arkansas, we have almost a nine month season.
Speaker 1: So this is gonna take you from zero to informed
Speaker 1: when it comes to squirrel hunting. And the other thing
Speaker 1: that's awesome about squirrel hunting is you get to have
Speaker 1: a dog. And I think a lot of families, a
Speaker 1: lot of people people love dogs, and so why not
Speaker 1: have a utilitarian dog that a dog that serves as
Speaker 1: a companion as a pet, but also is doing something
Speaker 1: useful for you. I think that's just smart. Okay Um.
Speaker 1: We also talk about some mules and just have a
Speaker 1: fun conversation. You're gonna enjoy this podcast with Michael Lanier,
Speaker 1: Trade Autry and Jason Lyles h. Well, you know what
Speaker 1: a big a good size Ozark Mountain, Northwest Arkansas coon weighs.
Speaker 1: Jason will know, so you guess last because Okay, I've
Speaker 1: hunted for pretty hard for the last five years. And
Speaker 1: the biggest coon that I have ever killed, by far,
Speaker 1: I weighed what do you think it weighed thirty five pounds. Okay,
Speaker 1: it weighed eighteen and a half pounds. And I'm telling
Speaker 1: you it's the biggest coon we've killed in five years.
Speaker 1: And we've killed a lot of coons. They're they're not
Speaker 1: as big as you think. Now. The coon's in in
Speaker 1: probably the Midwest. But and I would have swore that
Speaker 1: this one would have weighed twenty pounds when we killed.
Speaker 1: I mean, it was just it was huge, eighteen and
Speaker 1: a half pounds on a certified scale. I went to
Speaker 1: my neighbor's. He's got a certified scale over here anyway.
Speaker 1: So I'm saying that to say, if if Susie weighs
Speaker 1: seventeen pounds, she may have got ahold of a something
Speaker 1: that's bigger than her. Well, she'll jump on the cone.
Speaker 1: I've seen her do it before. Yeah, we were squirrel
Speaker 1: hunting one day. Look up and uh as a fir
Speaker 1: ball rolling down the hill and she had a comb
Speaker 1: by the throat, and uh, anyway, should kill that one.
Speaker 1: Nasty little guys. Oh, she ain't got good chance. She thinks, well, hey,
Speaker 1: I've got uh. So we're at the Global Headquarters, and
Speaker 1: I've got to my right Trey Autry originally from Mississippi,
Speaker 1: but now it's transplanted in northwest Arkansas. And I got
Speaker 1: Michael Lanier sitting here. Michael's a native ur kans And
Speaker 1: and Jason Lyles. Jason, your family has been here for forever. Yeah,
Speaker 1: sin seek, that's forever long enough, long enough, Um, but
Speaker 1: we're gonna talk about squirrel hunting. And you three guys
Speaker 1: are you guys? Are all of you in different ways
Speaker 1: of helped me big time getting into the squirrel dog world. Um,
Speaker 1: Jason is the one that hooked me up with Tests
Speaker 1: and Timber. So the two dogs I've got right now
Speaker 1: come from some of Jason's lines. And then Michael and
Speaker 1: Trey are my squirrel dog mentors. Treys actually like my
Speaker 1: He's like if I were Luke Skywalker, he would be
Speaker 1: like Yoda. Okay, we need to start calling him to
Speaker 1: squirrel hunting Yoda. But then Michael and here is like
Speaker 1: obi wan Kenobi Okay, I don't I didn't watch Star
Speaker 1: Wars and stuff as a kid, so don't get me
Speaker 1: wrong to think that I'm like a star Wars nerd,
Speaker 1: because I'm not. But I think that the metaphors flow
Speaker 1: strong enough. So were, well, Hey, this is what we're
Speaker 1: gonna do on this podcast is uh, I need to
Speaker 1: get a mule update from Trey and Michael. Uh, we'll
Speaker 1: do that first, but we're gonna talk about squirrel the
Speaker 1: world of squirrel dogs, which is a complicated world. And
Speaker 1: there's a lot of different squirrel dog registries, a lot
Speaker 1: of different types of squirrel dogs, and so what we
Speaker 1: want to do. What I want to do is take
Speaker 1: people from zero two informed about the squirrel dog world
Speaker 1: because I get people that asked me pretty often about
Speaker 1: these dogs that I've got, what kind of dogs they are? Um,
Speaker 1: even how do you train them? We might get into
Speaker 1: that just a little bit, but um so that's where
Speaker 1: we're going. So I want somebody to be able to
Speaker 1: listen to this and have a really good feel for
Speaker 1: for for for the squirrel dog world. Um, but trade
Speaker 1: mule world. What tell me you're so you guys we
Speaker 1: squirrel hunt off mules. Uh. Michael and Trey were the
Speaker 1: stars of hundred Dollars Squirrel, the YouTube viral sensation coming
Speaker 1: out of Bear Honey magazine. Trey was the one who
Speaker 1: wore pink glasses, um his wife's pink glasses. He's world
Speaker 1: famous for that. Now, Tred, what what meals have you got?
Speaker 1: You told me something happened. You've got a mule for
Speaker 1: sale now, yeah, Well, I'm not quite sure if it's
Speaker 1: us for sale or not, but it could be. It
Speaker 1: depends on what happened for sale for sale. I've got
Speaker 1: two really good ones I got from a fellow down
Speaker 1: the road named Danny Mind. He's like the mule guru
Speaker 1: kind of guy, see like Yoda or Obi Wan Kenobi Man.
Speaker 1: He may be top five, He's he's really good though. Uh,
Speaker 1: but I had a seven year oal at the house
Speaker 1: two weeks ago and put him on smoking. He hadn't
Speaker 1: never been on anything before and was just fine. And
Speaker 1: you know, smoky, he's been on a hunt with you before.
Speaker 1: But but I did something kind of crazy though to
Speaker 1: day this whole boy alfair at the store at the
Speaker 1: Frederick's one stop over in Prague Grove. He had been
Speaker 1: trying to get me to buy this mule for about
Speaker 1: all six eight months and I had told him all
Speaker 1: back around Christmas I said, Don, if you arrived that
Speaker 1: mw from your house to the one stop I'll give
Speaker 1: you five hundred dollars far he wanted like eight hundred.
Speaker 1: He wouldn't do it. Well, the other day I went
Speaker 1: in there and he hit me up about that mule
Speaker 1: again and why it was is the mule broke, That's
Speaker 1: what he said. Yeah, so you were how far as
Speaker 1: lived from one stop? All a mile or so, it
Speaker 1: wouldn't have been too bad. You were like, it was
Speaker 1: this like a test. You were like, if that because
Speaker 1: I didn't trust Don with uh with with the deal.
Speaker 1: So I was gonna help Don, but I didn't want
Speaker 1: to hurt me help and done by getting killed on
Speaker 1: that view. So yeah, long story short, hold on. Uh
Speaker 1: turns around and says, all you want that new I said, yeah,
Speaker 1: but I ain't gonna give you that fart, you know,
Speaker 1: unless you write it up here. And uh he said, well,
Speaker 1: I don't know if I'm gonna do that. And I said,
Speaker 1: all right, I'll give you three hundred dollars and I
Speaker 1: ain't seen it mm hmm, And uh he said, okay,
Speaker 1: so you didn't even see a picture of it. No,
Speaker 1: I mean you're gonna get hurt for three hundred dollars.
Speaker 1: Somebody about it back? Okay, okay, maybe so me and
Speaker 1: Lania go over and catch at new and had our
Speaker 1: reservations about you know, who was gonna ride it. Bubba
Speaker 1: didn't want to get on it. Lanier didn't want to
Speaker 1: get on it. Here's a cowboy, he's cowboy now, he's
Speaker 1: a real guy. Yeah, so I didn't. I wasn't so
Speaker 1: sure I wanted to get on it. So Lineary went
Speaker 1: on home and I tied him up over there, and uh,
Speaker 1: I got the clippers out, and I said, let's see
Speaker 1: what he does when I tried to clip his old hair. Here,
Speaker 1: old joke. I just stood there. Okay, what what color
Speaker 1: is this mual? It's a red mual, very big. No,
Speaker 1: it's back about the size of Willie. Okay, you know
Speaker 1: how tall is that mule in there? Hands mane. He's
Speaker 1: not quite fourteen. He's thinner and Willie too, so perfect
Speaker 1: size to hunt off of. Uh, you ain't got a
Speaker 1: too many limbs. So anyway, that joker, UH stood there,
Speaker 1: said I think I'm ALRIGHTY put a saddle on him.
Speaker 1: He stood there, wrote him off perfect and I'm thinking,
Speaker 1: boy didn't you do good three dollars. I wrote it off.
Speaker 1: You know, I'm a cowboy now, all right. So the
Speaker 1: next day I sadly him up and we go up
Speaker 1: the hill and we got in some woods, and I
Speaker 1: had changed bits on him because you know, I was
Speaker 1: trying to figure it out, and that joker readed up
Speaker 1: twice bunny hot, and he is trying to he is
Speaker 1: trying to hurt me. And Uh, I hung with him,
Speaker 1: got him all back down to the house, and uh
Speaker 1: gonna take him over to Devil's Den this afternoon, get
Speaker 1: him on a hill that's pretty much ninety degrees and
Speaker 1: see if he's gonna make the travel squad. And we're
Speaker 1: gonna have to sell him one of the two. Yeah. Hey,
Speaker 1: if there's one thing about Trey archery, he's not afraid
Speaker 1: of a mule. Now, He's really not. I probably ought
Speaker 1: to be. You probably shouldn't, right, but I mean, heck,
Speaker 1: the ground ain't that fall didn't dn't one of the
Speaker 1: ones you've got right now? Throw you off one time
Speaker 1: and you just yeah, I got I rode Willie home
Speaker 1: one Sunday afternoon from Danny's and the next day I
Speaker 1: got on him and he threw me off and I
Speaker 1: went head overhead, you know, head over heels, right down
Speaker 1: on that old, that old white gravel man. That hurt, Yeah,
Speaker 1: did uh? But I got right back on him. And man,
Speaker 1: I wouldn't give a skin monkey for that meal right now?
Speaker 1: Could you can shoot a shot going off of him? Good?
Speaker 1: It's a good pair of white mules, matching mules. And
Speaker 1: you know what I always say to your street cred
Speaker 1: goes way up when you got a pair of matching mules.
Speaker 1: Oh they look good coming down the road. Yeah, you
Speaker 1: know they do. Yeah, Well that's exciting. Man, I didn't
Speaker 1: know he had to new it. Man, that meal will
Speaker 1: be fine. It just you just gotta you just gotta
Speaker 1: just ride it. Man, it'll be fine. Hey, what you
Speaker 1: doing after walk? Well? You know, I don't know. I
Speaker 1: think maybe you should. You should ride it, But man,
Speaker 1: you a whole lot younger it. Oh, I ain't no
Speaker 1: question anybody bet to catch a snake like you do.
Speaker 1: We'll do anything. Well, do you think these folks know
Speaker 1: about your snake catching abilities? Probably not? Probably not really? No, No,
Speaker 1: I don't talk about that much. I wouldn't tell nobody either.
Speaker 1: I don't think you're crazy. I like you know, I
Speaker 1: used to catch a lot of snakes. I don't anymore though,
Speaker 1: I don't anymore about last year. Doll. Oh you caught one.
Speaker 1: Yeah that's right. Yeah, well we were cooing nothing. We
Speaker 1: was right down you had you had River and Barry
Speaker 1: with us, and both them kids about the same time
Speaker 1: time saw the snake in the middle of the road,
Speaker 1: and both of them holler and get it? Did he
Speaker 1: get it? Clay stops at news, he jumps off of there.
Speaker 1: He grabbed that snake, just like something off Wild Kingdom. Uh.
Speaker 1: If any of you guys remember that show, Uh, what's
Speaker 1: old Marty Stafford? Matt is that? Who was Marty Stafford?
Speaker 1: That's good? That was a good all Merlin Perkins. Now,
Speaker 1: this just goes back to right before this is this
Speaker 1: is right before Disney would come on at six o'clock. Okay, okay, yeah,
Speaker 1: this was mutual of omahas Wild king Okay, okay, this
Speaker 1: is really a compliment. Yeah, so because yeah, anyway, so
Speaker 1: Clay stops in the middle of the road, reaches down
Speaker 1: there and grabbed that snake and he's milking it, just
Speaker 1: like on Wild Kingdom or some show. You're saying, and
Speaker 1: there's this old boy from New York kneeling down with
Speaker 1: the camera taking pictures. And I'm I don't know which
Speaker 1: one's crazier, Clay for holding a snake or that old
Speaker 1: boy for getting so close. But I certainly kept my distance.
Speaker 1: But he ain't scared en nothing. So a mule versus
Speaker 1: a a poison of snake. Uh No, my money's gonna
Speaker 1: Clay every time. Well, I tell you, the one thing
Speaker 1: I don't like is a possum. I wouldn't touch a
Speaker 1: possum if you paid me. Moving on, moving on, Uh, Michael,
Speaker 1: will tell me about your mule mule world. I sold
Speaker 1: r D that I was riding last week. You sold him.
Speaker 1: I was kind of want a project. Why did you
Speaker 1: sell him? Because I was doing he was doing good. Yeah,
Speaker 1: he's doing good. I couldn't ever break him from being
Speaker 1: buddy sour. Yeah, that's one thing. I just didn't have
Speaker 1: much luck at Uh. So that means when you if
Speaker 1: you've got two animals in a in a field together
Speaker 1: and you take him or take one, he would flip out. Yeah.
Speaker 1: He did not ride off on very well. He wouldn't
Speaker 1: even ride off he would It was just it was
Speaker 1: a fight. Yeah, Okay, So I bought a couple of mules,
Speaker 1: took one to a guy over north central Arkansas to ride,
Speaker 1: and then brought one here for me to ride, and
Speaker 1: got on her first time yesterday. Okay, you got that
Speaker 1: Appalusa mule. Yeah, that's the one I've got up here
Speaker 1: in at mule and then the other one you got
Speaker 1: back from a guy who's been riding it. No, she's
Speaker 1: still over there, and I'm actually gonna sell her. Okay,
Speaker 1: so you'll have something ready to ride though pretty soon. Right,
Speaker 1: we'll see man you better. Yeah, she's pretty nervous. She
Speaker 1: ain't been rode much. She has rode sun last fall
Speaker 1: and set up till now. Yeah, she's eight eight. App
Speaker 1: Mule means Appalusa, so her mama was an Appealusa horse
Speaker 1: most likely. Yeah, she's pretty. She's pretty. I like her
Speaker 1: about thirteen and a half fourteen. Yeah, yeah, n she's
Speaker 1: pretty thin. Well cool, Jason, you don't have any muals. No,
Speaker 1: but I've got a mule story. Yeah. Yeah, I bought
Speaker 1: a mule one time for two hundred dollars. You just
Speaker 1: wait your story. So I decided to want a mule.
Speaker 1: This is ten years ago. I go and buy this
Speaker 1: mule two hundred dollars at winslow. I get there, it's
Speaker 1: year old mule sway back is all get out by
Speaker 1: this mule. Jun her bucks get home, saddled up, rides fine,
Speaker 1: little spooky anything hits his belly spooks pretty easy. So
Speaker 1: I didn't like the mule. My friend Grant Williams from
Speaker 1: Forest City, Arkansas, decides he wants to buy my mule
Speaker 1: back for two So he drives all the way from
Speaker 1: East Arkansas to buy his mule for squirrel hunting. Well,
Speaker 1: he had never been up here in the os arcs,
Speaker 1: and uh he tells me this story about how he
Speaker 1: went up the pig trail and he could read the
Speaker 1: license plate on his trailer because the turns are so sharp.
Speaker 1: And so he gets up here, he gets the mule,
Speaker 1: heads back home. But then the first week the mule
Speaker 1: had bucked him off in the round brin pen and
Speaker 1: broke his collar bone and left him there and knocked
Speaker 1: out for like two hours. Oh my gosh. Yes, So
Speaker 1: so later this was ongoing deal on the There used
Speaker 1: to be this forum called squirrel Haters and he was
Speaker 1: on there, and uh so this story about the mule
Speaker 1: just kept it you know transpiring over the next few months. Well,
Speaker 1: they were in Missouri squirrel hunting one day and his
Speaker 1: wife calls and she is freaking out. This mule has
Speaker 1: gotten out and has lost its mind and his attacking
Speaker 1: people in the park in town. They haltail home from Missouri,
Speaker 1: get there two hours later and have to chase this
Speaker 1: mule down in the park in town in Forest City, Arkansas,
Speaker 1: and it is attacking everybody. It's attacking them, it's rushing them,
Speaker 1: and they end up having to hunt it down in
Speaker 1: the woods in the in the state park there, and
Speaker 1: people know the mule did not leave the state park, couldn't.
Speaker 1: It was just that is a good mule story. Yeah
Speaker 1: it is, oh man, that's something you are laughing at
Speaker 1: each other there. This happened to y'all too recently. Recently,
Speaker 1: something like this almost happened Monday. Yeah, this week gone
Speaker 1: mommule was tied up in the backyard for oh Ton,
Speaker 1: maybe it was Tuesday. Got her on Sunday. Tuesday tied
Speaker 1: her up and she got her leg up over a
Speaker 1: lead rope broker Halter Howes at work. Kids called me, said,
Speaker 1: the mules running loose in the neighborhood you know, in
Speaker 1: the backyard. So I called Trey, get him to meet me.
Speaker 1: Another feller, come help me, an't we Yeah, we finally
Speaker 1: called her. You got her. Yeah. We cornered her an
Speaker 1: alley on the side of my shop and we're out
Speaker 1: there running around in the field right next to the cemetery.
Speaker 1: They're having a funeral. Oh no, yeah, oh no. Good
Speaker 1: news is the mule didn't go over yah. Wow. Man.
Speaker 1: They don't like to be caught when they know they're
Speaker 1: free to That is for danger. Wow. Okay, this is good.
Speaker 1: I'm trying to think if I've had anything crazy happened. Uh.
Speaker 1: I mean I took Izzie Montana a few well months ago,
Speaker 1: and uh we had a little bit of a rodeo
Speaker 1: getting a bear on her back. But she took it
Speaker 1: and hauled it out. But it wouldn't it wasn't easy. Um,
Speaker 1: that's for another podcast. Good Okay, Now I feel like
Speaker 1: I'm squared away. Uh and now we can talk about
Speaker 1: what we were going to talk about, which is uh
Speaker 1: squirrel dogs. Um. What I've learned is that not every
Speaker 1: state has a spring squirrel season. And part of the
Speaker 1: reason squirrel hunting is on my mind is because We've
Speaker 1: been doing some spring squirrel hunting here in Arkansas. Our
Speaker 1: season opens up May and runs all the way through
Speaker 1: the next year to February, so it's only closed for
Speaker 1: like three months, which a lot of a lot of
Speaker 1: states don't have spring squirrel seasons, which from a management perspective,
Speaker 1: you know, I mean, human hunters aren't putting a lot
Speaker 1: of hurt on squirrel numbers. I mean for the most part, Uh,
Speaker 1: if you look at a macro scale. So anyway, it's
Speaker 1: spring squirrel seasons are a good a good thing. But
Speaker 1: I want to talk about squirrel dogs. So the question
Speaker 1: that I get a lot is, uh, you know, what
Speaker 1: kind of dogs do you use for for squirrel hunting.
Speaker 1: If you're gonna be getting a squirrel dog, you are
Speaker 1: gonna need some tracking devices and some training devices for
Speaker 1: that dog. It's just it's just part of the startup costs.
Speaker 1: And you can buy used, you can buy new, whatever
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Speaker 1: Hunting Supply. These guys are the premier garment dealer in
Speaker 1: the United States and they have all types of hound
Speaker 1: supplies from callers to Leasha's too, anything and everything that
Speaker 1: you're gonna need if you're gonna be getting a squirrel dog.
Speaker 1: So check out our buddies at Double Hunting Supply and
Speaker 1: check out Bear Hunting Magazine. Check out our print magazine.
Speaker 1: We're the only print bear hunting magazine in the world.
Speaker 1: Full of columns, full of hound hunting, eight hunting spot
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Speaker 1: us a favor by leaving a review on iTunes of
Speaker 1: this podcast. It helps us if we get a five
Speaker 1: star rating. But you gotta be honest tell us what
Speaker 1: you think. But that does help us appreciate it, guys,
Speaker 1: So let's just start. Let's just start right there. What
Speaker 1: kind of dogs? What breeds of dogs? Jason, If you
Speaker 1: want to start off, like, what what breeds of dogs?
Speaker 1: Two people used for squalling? There are several different kinds
Speaker 1: of dogs. Um, A lot of people hunt all mixed
Speaker 1: up mutt type dogs. But if you're looking for dogs
Speaker 1: that are bread for squirrel hunting, you're always gonna be
Speaker 1: looking at like mountain five stream fives, original mountain curves. Um.
Speaker 1: Some people like, uh, we're gonna break all these down,
Speaker 1: so soa say it slower. We got mountain fists, mountain
Speaker 1: I guess you'd call them treeing fists as well. A
Speaker 1: lot of people think they're they're different. A lot of
Speaker 1: that blood is pretty similar. Um, original mountain curves, original
Speaker 1: mountain cur You've got like us, which are a long
Speaker 1: hair type treating dog common though no not as common, no, no,
Speaker 1: not as common. Uh, treeing curs treats a mixture like
Speaker 1: hound curve crosses, hound fist crosses, you know, hound bird
Speaker 1: dog crosses, those type of dogs. Um. You know there's
Speaker 1: there's several varieties of curves, and a lot of it's
Speaker 1: distinguished bloodline. Blackmouth cur yeah, black mouth mouth curve, yeah,
Speaker 1: Stephen's curves. You know, I got a hellus cur You
Speaker 1: ever heard of that? Fellow? What is it? Hills? No,
Speaker 1: buddy of mine town put me onto him and I
Speaker 1: drove further than I should have to go get it,
Speaker 1: but I think it's gonna make it. But it's a
Speaker 1: blackmouth curve. It's it's a lie Less bloodline. Then hell
Speaker 1: Heller's bloodline. It's a tree, a tree type mount. Let's okaya, Michael,
Speaker 1: are there others? I mean, because all we've said so
Speaker 1: far is fist curves, and now like a is a
Speaker 1: long hair type yeah, like it's just like a trade
Speaker 1: shepherd type dog. Yeah, slid dog, Yeah, I agree. I mean,
Speaker 1: is that it curR and fist? Is that all we're
Speaker 1: hunting with some folks with towns? Yeah? More common now
Speaker 1: then huh. And then there's uh, there's a feller that
Speaker 1: hunts bird dogs, straight bird dogs, bird dogs that'll tree
Speaker 1: mm hm. So so the common denominator with all these
Speaker 1: dogs because they've got to be tree dogs and and
Speaker 1: so a tree dog is a dog that when it
Speaker 1: smells game, that runs up a tree, that's going to
Speaker 1: stay at that tree and bark. And there's a difference there.
Speaker 1: There are hounds that are running hounds. Some of these
Speaker 1: curves are probably not dogs like they use a lot
Speaker 1: of these cur dogs black mouth curves, especially hog dogs.
Speaker 1: So like the tree and instinct that dog is not
Speaker 1: that important. And so sometimes it could be I'm not
Speaker 1: gonna say it's gonna get bread out, but it could
Speaker 1: be a are are are they're baying an animal on
Speaker 1: the ground, So they smell scent up a tree, it
Speaker 1: doesn't mean anything to them. Um, So I want to
Speaker 1: establish that that a squirrel dog has to be a
Speaker 1: tree dog. They are not always gonna see the squirrel
Speaker 1: run up a tree, So they're a scent dog. They're
Speaker 1: smelling the scent of a squirrel. Now they might see
Speaker 1: it run up a tree, but most time they don't.
Speaker 1: They're smelling the scent of a squirrel. They're finding the
Speaker 1: tree that that squirrel went up, and they're standing there
Speaker 1: and barking until you get there and give the dog
Speaker 1: a command to leave or shoot the squirrel out or whatever.
Speaker 1: Now okay, so what registries though, So there's all these
Speaker 1: different curves. Now, okay, let me So these are kind
Speaker 1: of even questions I think I haven't understood. But this
Speaker 1: is the way I worked through it is that like
Speaker 1: the u k C, the United Kennel Club, Like if
Speaker 1: you're talking about coon hounds, it's all real easy. There
Speaker 1: are only like six breeds of u k C registered coonhounds,
Speaker 1: you know, black and tan, English blue, tick, plothhound walker. Uh, leopard,
Speaker 1: there's a leopard cur. I think. Um, but squirrel dogs
Speaker 1: not so right, Michael, Well, I mean you got the
Speaker 1: what the original mountain cur registrate. Now is that a
Speaker 1: u k C registered dog, original mountain cur? I think
Speaker 1: with u k C and p k C that curs
Speaker 1: are just registered as tree and curs. I believe the
Speaker 1: u k C has a tree and cur Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: you can. You can register a mountain cur with u
Speaker 1: k C. Okay, but it will be registered as a
Speaker 1: tree and curve as we understand it. Okay, okay, is
Speaker 1: that right? I believe. So I'm kind of out of
Speaker 1: the cur world. Well described Michael described the the well,
Speaker 1: the feist and cur registrate as you know it, because
Speaker 1: there's different organisms and what I was getting at, it's
Speaker 1: like u k C. It's just like clear cut. There's
Speaker 1: registered dogs and then there's not registered dogs. Um the
Speaker 1: but the but the squirrel dog world it's different because
Speaker 1: there's these little dependent breed registries, independent breed registries. So
Speaker 1: just talk about that a little bit. Well, I think
Speaker 1: you've got the original mountain curve. Then you've got in
Speaker 1: f T A what does that stand for? Or in
Speaker 1: in t F A it's a National Fire Tree and
Speaker 1: cur Association. I think, yeah, okay, it's in f T
Speaker 1: a National fist something association. I forget what the acronym is.
Speaker 1: And then uh, there's Mulin's fast. Now is that a
Speaker 1: breed in its own is a breed of feist? And
Speaker 1: then uh, what else have you got? F A T
Speaker 1: F A N S D YEP, which is dog or
Speaker 1: I think a sport dog? No, I think it's the
Speaker 1: National Squirrel Dog Registry. Okay, yeah, I think you're right. Okay,
Speaker 1: And now what the National Squirrel Dog Registry. They're just
Speaker 1: a they're kind of like u k C and p
Speaker 1: k C. They are basically a competition hunt registry. Um
Speaker 1: and they will register a lot of tree and curve
Speaker 1: crosses like hounds and vice and mountain curve crosses or
Speaker 1: pure mountain curves. It's it's just a an all squirrel
Speaker 1: dog registry. So what qualifies? Can you put a dog
Speaker 1: in that registry that's never been registered before? Yeah, you
Speaker 1: could hunt. You could have a grade walker dog cross
Speaker 1: it to a grade cur dog and register if if
Speaker 1: it's a nice world dog. Is it just so you
Speaker 1: can have an organizations that's keeping records of your breeding, yes,
Speaker 1: or and I believe in National Squirrel Dog Registry it's
Speaker 1: more of a you know, it's a competition hunt registry mostly,
Speaker 1: tell me what do you mean by that? They have
Speaker 1: those They have competition squirrel hunts where it's almost like
Speaker 1: money earnings, like okay, so they're keeping track of the
Speaker 1: point earnings every Yes, So someone would register a dog
Speaker 1: in that because they wanted to competition and be able
Speaker 1: to enter it into those contests, would have to be
Speaker 1: registered with that because see the background that I would
Speaker 1: have with dog registries would be u k C and coonhounds,
Speaker 1: which now this is gonna get complicated now they have
Speaker 1: ex bread Um Cross Bread Hunt Registry. Yeah, so you
Speaker 1: can put dogs in u k C resterdments. But basically,
Speaker 1: I mean you gotta have a registered plot bread to
Speaker 1: a registered uk C plot in order to have dogs
Speaker 1: are registered. I mean there's no there's no way to
Speaker 1: get into the registry with a great dog means a
Speaker 1: dog that has no papers and and essentially by papers,
Speaker 1: what we're talking about is uh, you know, you can
Speaker 1: get the the genealogy of these dogs back. You you
Speaker 1: can pay U k C A certain you know, you
Speaker 1: can get that when you register a pup if it
Speaker 1: has registered parents, you can get a seven generation pedigree
Speaker 1: or a forty generation pedigree I think. And you can
Speaker 1: go back and you track these dogs. I mean, it's
Speaker 1: a breeding registry. But so the squirrel Okay, so now
Speaker 1: I understand the competition squirrel hunt. The only the reason
Speaker 1: you'd register it is so that you could competition hunt it.
Speaker 1: But it's not necessarily keeping not so much on the
Speaker 1: n s D. I don't believe. And I don't know
Speaker 1: for sure if n s D has to have um
Speaker 1: their dogs hunt tested maybe, I think, because I think
Speaker 1: it's just basically I don't think they're ready. I don't know.
Speaker 1: I have to ask my buddy. But I don't think
Speaker 1: they're registering litters of pubs. I think it's it's just
Speaker 1: it's just a competition dogs. Yeah, like yes, and then
Speaker 1: it's got braid standards, so doesn't it It might be
Speaker 1: inches and under right and yeah right, okay, So in
Speaker 1: n s D as National Sporting Dog, Squirrel Dog squorl
Speaker 1: Dog Registry, National Squirrel Dog Registry. Okay, n s R.
Speaker 1: Is that what it's called? Just n s D. What's
Speaker 1: the descent? National squirrel dog? Squirrel dog? Got it? Are
Speaker 1: you following this? Because we're gonna once we get done
Speaker 1: with all this, we're coming back to trades philosophy for
Speaker 1: paper dogs. Okay, you can, you'll be working that up. Okay,
Speaker 1: um no, no, I'm really trying to understand this. This
Speaker 1: is good. We just gotta work through it because it's
Speaker 1: not clear cut. So n s D has breed breeds
Speaker 1: standards for different dogs. So I could take my little
Speaker 1: dog out here and register it as a feist within
Speaker 1: s D. Because why Michael, Because it's meant the breed standards.
Speaker 1: You think it's under thirty pounds, under thirty pounds and
Speaker 1: under eighteen inches or eighteen inches and unders typical max fiss. Okay,
Speaker 1: you know that's a feist. Is a is a descriptor
Speaker 1: of a dog that meets a certain physical characteristic standard
Speaker 1: that a tree and dog that's under thirty inches, I mean,
Speaker 1: under under eighteen inches his shoulder and under thirty pounds.
Speaker 1: Is that right? Well, I mean it is. There's more
Speaker 1: to it than that. With Okay, yeah, you know, mom
Speaker 1: and Daddy had to. You couldn't take a wiener dog
Speaker 1: out here that would tree a squirrel and say, I'm
Speaker 1: gonna register this as a feist. No no, see, okay, okay,
Speaker 1: with those registries like that, typically that's what they're wanting.
Speaker 1: Is a feist is a tree fight, is gonna be
Speaker 1: thirty pounds eighteen in inches and under. But it's more
Speaker 1: than that. Two guys that actually keep and hunt feist.
Speaker 1: There's bloodlines that are involved with that. If you if
Speaker 1: you have a a half hound half German shorthaired pointer
Speaker 1: and that dog ends up being small, you typically you
Speaker 1: could register it is that a fast But it's not.
Speaker 1: It's not no, not to a real squirrel dog guy.
Speaker 1: It's it's about blood sense. I've just been trying to
Speaker 1: nail down, like the hardcore definition what a fist is,
Speaker 1: because there's so many different and all these fights don't
Speaker 1: look the same. I mean, like you get a walker hound,
Speaker 1: and I mean a tree and walker looks like a
Speaker 1: tree and walker, But a feist maybe he may be
Speaker 1: lemon colored. He maybe brindle and white like my black dogs.
Speaker 1: Maybe black, Like there's just so much variation, So I
Speaker 1: mean you could also you could have a cur that's
Speaker 1: under that size as well. I wouldn't call it a fast.
Speaker 1: My dogs is testifict. I would say, yes, yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: she's mostly fast blood. She will carry mountain curve and
Speaker 1: a little bit of tree walker bloo ud, but she's
Speaker 1: she is different the coon dog bloodlines, because I mean,
Speaker 1: I've got a dog out here that's a fist, but
Speaker 1: she's got original mountain curR in her and she can
Speaker 1: also be registers a tree and curve. Yeah right, yeah,
Speaker 1: I've got two dogs that are quarter walker, quarterbird dog,
Speaker 1: half fast, and I would call them both the fast.
Speaker 1: So if it's got any fist in it, it could
Speaker 1: be a fast depending on the size. It's like, Okay,
Speaker 1: say those dogs were thirty five forty pounds, some might
Speaker 1: say they're more of a tree and curve even though
Speaker 1: they're half fives blood. You get what you get where
Speaker 1: we're going with this. Yeah yeah, no, it makes it
Speaker 1: makes sense. It's just not intuitive trades. This makes sense
Speaker 1: to you. But by blood, those dogs are mostly fast.
Speaker 1: So yeah, yeah, okay, okay, and that's what I understood.
Speaker 1: But it's just I think we got to say that
Speaker 1: this is definitely different than coonhound registry. Oh yeah, way different.
Speaker 1: Why is it different? Oh, the because coonhounds registries, you know,
Speaker 1: they're very strict on the bloodlines those dogs go back to.
Speaker 1: They're most feast dogs and even cur dogs. They could
Speaker 1: possibly even have some unknown lineage. There's guys that have
Speaker 1: good dogs, they're good proven squirrel dogs, and they want
Speaker 1: to be able to have some sort of registry to
Speaker 1: register these dogs with that they can go and enjoy
Speaker 1: competition hunting, or start keeping track of the lineage if
Speaker 1: they start breeding pups out of that dog to set
Speaker 1: up families, because it doesn't have as long a history.
Speaker 1: Because see, like these different lines of coonhounds, a lot
Speaker 1: of them came over from Europe, you know, and so
Speaker 1: they came here for all these years, and so people
Speaker 1: had already in their mind these different breeds of hounds,
Speaker 1: and they like to keep them separate rated. They like
Speaker 1: to keep you know, the blue ticks and the English
Speaker 1: and the walker in the black and tan pot. And
Speaker 1: then maybe the squirrel dogs were just like they didn't
Speaker 1: come from Europe. I mean maybe at some point way
Speaker 1: back they did. But I mean these are kind of
Speaker 1: like American bread over there. They do. But I don't
Speaker 1: know that they messed with him much. We were pretty
Speaker 1: hungry people when we first got here, so we'd eat them.
Speaker 1: We still eat them. Um no, no, you'll see where
Speaker 1: I'm I'm trying to understand why it's like that, and
Speaker 1: and uh, because it seems it seems like it would
Speaker 1: be easy enough to be like, Okay, there's fice and
Speaker 1: these are the only ones that are fights. They're curs.
Speaker 1: They're only ones that are curs. But it just seems
Speaker 1: like it's a little bit more flexibility in the squirrel world.
Speaker 1: It's a little bit squirrelly. Do you like that? Trade?
Speaker 1: Trade like that? Oh, he's showing me something here. Okay.
Speaker 1: Treys looked up the Wikipedia definition of a fast fast
Speaker 1: is a small hunting dog descended from the terriers brought
Speaker 1: over the United States by English miners. Okay, okay, so
Speaker 1: they did come from over there or according to Wikipedia,
Speaker 1: which we'll see true fact, English miners and working class immigrants.
Speaker 1: These terriers probably included crosses between the smooth fox terrier,
Speaker 1: Manchester terror and now extinct English white terrier. These dogs
Speaker 1: were used as ratters, gambling their prows and killing rats
Speaker 1: his favorite Happily, their owners okay, yeah, you know, all
Speaker 1: these dogs probably came from pretty similar bloodlines. But a
Speaker 1: feist okay, so good if you take a car, I
Speaker 1: don't think it's gonna be as tough on them rats. Uh,
Speaker 1: it's like a face would be. Because Susie's favorite thing
Speaker 1: to do. If the squirrels aren't moving, she'll find something
Speaker 1: under a log or chipmunks, yeah, chipmunks, rats, whatever he
Speaker 1: wants to get tunnel and get. It's kind of has
Speaker 1: a similar smell to it. Yeah. Oh, she's a great
Speaker 1: rat dog. I bet she is. Oh yeah, or moles
Speaker 1: in the yard, She'll dig them up. All them little
Speaker 1: dogs will do that kind of stuff. Yeah, well, I
Speaker 1: think I think, uh, I think it's starting to make
Speaker 1: sense to me. The registry is that these dogs, a
Speaker 1: lot of them were just mixed up dogs. There were
Speaker 1: probably a lot of different regionally specific kind of dogs
Speaker 1: that kind of people of a certain area started breeding.
Speaker 1: Is that right? Like the Mullins fights, Like, where did
Speaker 1: that come from? I mean there's a guy named Mullins, right, Yes, sir,
Speaker 1: tell me about that. I don't know much about him.
Speaker 1: I mean I know he he buried some good dogs
Speaker 1: and Jody Mullins started it. So that's something that's new,
Speaker 1: that's not that didn't happen in the eighteen hundreds. That happened.
Speaker 1: I mean, he's still lies. Yeah, he he's got the
Speaker 1: whole breed of dogs named after him. So you you
Speaker 1: mean to tell me if me and Trey really start
Speaker 1: breeding our dogs, good, we could have the autry nukem feist. Sure,
Speaker 1: all right? All right, well no, no, okay, see that
Speaker 1: makes sense too, because they're not making any new coonhound breeds,
Speaker 1: you know what I mean. I mean, it's not like
Speaker 1: but I like that about the squirrel world. It's kind
Speaker 1: of kind of flexible. I want to stop this right
Speaker 1: here and make a correction. And jokingly I said, hey,
Speaker 1: me and Trey could start our own breed of dogs. Really,
Speaker 1: what we should have said was that if Trey and
Speaker 1: I started breeding dogs, potentially we could start our own
Speaker 1: line of dogs or strain of dogs. So we would
Speaker 1: have fights. We wouldn't be creating a new breed. But
Speaker 1: you know, an individual could over time, over generations, if
Speaker 1: he had some and really unique that he was breeding in,
Speaker 1: he could create his own strain of dogs. I just
Speaker 1: wanted to clarify that, so we weren't trying to say
Speaker 1: that a new breed of squirrel dog could be developed,
Speaker 1: thank you. Yeah, there, it's based off bloodlines basically. You
Speaker 1: know you've got with mountain curves are the same as fists.
Speaker 1: As far as the way they started out, they were
Speaker 1: used to curve. The definition of cur was mixed up.
Speaker 1: But you know, like homestead type dog, Well, they're actually
Speaker 1: bred into a breed registry now a lot of mark
Speaker 1: now they have their own breed O m c b A. Yeah,
Speaker 1: started in nineteen fifty seven when it actually started coming around.
Speaker 1: So they just have their whole own and all the
Speaker 1: dogs within that registry are supposed to lineagely go back
Speaker 1: to the first However, many dogs that were originally registered
Speaker 1: in that registry. But there's other you know, there's other
Speaker 1: bloodlines of reginal mountain curves that aren't in that registry,
Speaker 1: more like Camera Stock mountain curves. Those dogs were O
Speaker 1: m c b A registered dogs at one time, but
Speaker 1: Robert Camera, developer that particular strain of dogs, branched away
Speaker 1: from the O m c b A and bred his
Speaker 1: dogs specifically to his standards, and so now they're separate,
Speaker 1: and there's some some of those dogs are still they're
Speaker 1: not as common or dual registered camera stock and O
Speaker 1: M C B A so which those are not as
Speaker 1: common anymore. But it's it's you know with mostly with
Speaker 1: the face dogs you get. Most of those dogs are
Speaker 1: going to be in k C registered, which are National
Speaker 1: Kennel Club Registry. And there's also a t f A.
Speaker 1: A t f A does not registered letters of pups.
Speaker 1: They're more of a competition hunt organization and they are
Speaker 1: hunt test organization where you have to your dog has
Speaker 1: a member has to come sign off that your dog
Speaker 1: will and tree game and game be seen. Okay, okay um.
Speaker 1: There's also a Steven's Cur Steven's Cur as well, and
Speaker 1: they're mostly a black and white hunt. Some Steven's Curse. No.
Speaker 1: I had to I try it out and uh, the
Speaker 1: guy got them from told me that one of them
Speaker 1: was registered, one was not because it wasn't old enough
Speaker 1: to be registered. I think they have to hit a
Speaker 1: year old before you can registrate and it's got to
Speaker 1: meet their breed standards. Ye, and they branched away from
Speaker 1: you if okay, let's bring it back down to like
Speaker 1: a functional level. I want to talk about the what
Speaker 1: the different dogs do because they're like the only reason
Speaker 1: you'd have a different kind of dog is because that
Speaker 1: dog had some characteristic that you like. So every every dog,
Speaker 1: every all these are gonna be a little bit different.
Speaker 1: Um So, like, uh, let's start off with the original
Speaker 1: mountain curves. What are they known? You don't have to
Speaker 1: go into great detail, but like what how do they
Speaker 1: hunt and what are they known for? You know there there,
Speaker 1: they got a lot of work ethic there. They're a
Speaker 1: running type dog, head in the air mostly, a little
Speaker 1: bit bigger dog, a little bit bigger dog. You know.
Speaker 1: Some mountain curves are gonna be small, like Michael was
Speaker 1: saying earlier, though especially like real heavy streak bread dogs.
Speaker 1: They're gonna they may be twenty five pounds, but some
Speaker 1: of them might be sixty pounds. You know, mountain curves
Speaker 1: very inside. You could mistake a mountain curve for a hound.
Speaker 1: You except for a lot of times they'll bob their tail, yes,
Speaker 1: or they come natural bobtail as well? Do they really? Hell? Yeah,
Speaker 1: yeah do they? Yeah? Absolutely both five sand curves will
Speaker 1: come naturally naturally A lot of the different depending on
Speaker 1: the black mountain cur is usually gonna be usually a
Speaker 1: brindle dog. No, there's lots of yellow, lots of yellow
Speaker 1: colored dogs. Yeah, bred brindle, black and white, but never
Speaker 1: you know, some of them to in on the bloodline.
Speaker 1: You'll get some open spot dogs once in a while,
Speaker 1: depending on the bloodline. But those dogs can't be registered
Speaker 1: like white with colored like almost like a pointer or
Speaker 1: a hound, you know, like a walker hound. We don't
Speaker 1: like that. They can't be registered, not with omcb A.
Speaker 1: They have to meet the breed standard. No open white
Speaker 1: spots pass the shoulder back if they have too much
Speaker 1: white up on their flanks, can't register them. Um. Certain
Speaker 1: bloodlines throw that more than others. You know, that white's
Speaker 1: a recessive so original mountain curve. Somebody would look at
Speaker 1: it and almost think it was a hound a little
Speaker 1: bit shorter, ears a lot of variation in color, usually
Speaker 1: a bobtail, either cut or natural. And they're they're going
Speaker 1: to usually not bark on the track at all, mostly silent.
Speaker 1: Some dogs are open. My dogs open on coon, and
Speaker 1: that means when he smells sent on the ground of
Speaker 1: the animal he's trailing, he'll he will bark, yes on
Speaker 1: that those to a silent A dog that's silent on
Speaker 1: track would trail, a trail game without barking, and then
Speaker 1: when that game is treated, he would fall. And that's
Speaker 1: a lot of people like that. A lot of the
Speaker 1: squirrel dogs are like that, majority or bread for silent
Speaker 1: trailing usually, yeah, and so original mountain curs are used
Speaker 1: for coon hunting. Squirrel hunting primarily ply is would you say,
Speaker 1: more squirrel than coon? Yes, yea more squirrel and coon,
Speaker 1: but quite a few guys cood. There's a lot of
Speaker 1: combo good combo dogs out there nowadays, but they're they're
Speaker 1: kind of an all purpose dog. But yes, as far
Speaker 1: as most original mountain curs will make better squirrel dogs
Speaker 1: than a coon dog versus a hound. You know. Yeah,
Speaker 1: do they hog hunting much rigon mountain curs? Yeah, they
Speaker 1: will as well, Um, most of the guy most of
Speaker 1: the dogs that are getting hog hunted, I would say,
Speaker 1: are probably the dogs that didn't pan out as well
Speaker 1: as as a squirrel dog so much treeing instinct or something.
Speaker 1: But yeah, yeah, very great dogs. Michael, what what what
Speaker 1: breed would you like to describe? Oh? Fast, tell me,
Speaker 1: just tell me everything I need to know about the
Speaker 1: way of fast hunts and why I would want one. Well,
Speaker 1: I mean, I tried curves for a while and just
Speaker 1: didn't click for me for whatever reason. Then I started
Speaker 1: trying some fist and one thing I noticed different. There
Speaker 1: a little hotter nose my hunt a little closer, uh,
Speaker 1: a little bit easier to or a little bit uh
Speaker 1: more apt to want to please be your buddy the
Speaker 1: ones I've had. But I also kind of changed up
Speaker 1: how I raised them when I started getting the fist,
Speaker 1: started bringing them in the house more, let him right
Speaker 1: in the front of the truck. You know. Uh, some
Speaker 1: of them, they won't have a very good bark. Some
Speaker 1: of them will kind of have a yippie bart, you know,
Speaker 1: high pitched, versus the most of the curves have a
Speaker 1: real real good bark, good mouth on him, And you
Speaker 1: want that just so you can hear him, right, And
Speaker 1: I just I like the sound of it too. Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: and they uh And what you mean by hotter nose
Speaker 1: is that like like they're gonna pretty much only show
Speaker 1: and bark on game that was there pretty quickly. I
Speaker 1: mean that the they're not gonna bark on a two
Speaker 1: hour old squirrel. I mean they might, but that just
Speaker 1: as an example versus a squirrel that was standing there
Speaker 1: two minutes ago. Correct, Yeah, and most of most of
Speaker 1: the ones I've had here lately. Uh, they're not a
Speaker 1: belly up on the tree, you know, they're not right
Speaker 1: up against the tree tree and they're kind of back off.
Speaker 1: They're really looking for the squirrel. They're wanting to timber it.
Speaker 1: You know, if it fit timbers out lays the tree,
Speaker 1: they're gonna like that. Oh absolutely. Um. So a feist
Speaker 1: is he's using his nose, but he's also using his
Speaker 1: eyes and ears. Absolutely, yes, I mean that's what they're
Speaker 1: known for, right, Yeah, that would uh original Mountain Kirby
Speaker 1: like that. Less a little less um there are there
Speaker 1: are bloodlines of dogs that are more of a hard
Speaker 1: tree dog and some that aren't. Um, they will timber
Speaker 1: and watch first squirrel as well too, but a lot
Speaker 1: of there's a lot of those bloodlines that are just
Speaker 1: real hard on feet on the wood type tree dog,
Speaker 1: you know. But yeah, both breeds there, they know what
Speaker 1: they're doing. Then they're bred to hunt and find a squirrel,
Speaker 1: see it, timber out, timber and if it goes. But
Speaker 1: fists are very sight oriented, and I mean they're hot
Speaker 1: nose dogs. Like Michael saying, Um, you know. That's the
Speaker 1: unique thing about tree and a squirrel is that he's
Speaker 1: probably not gonna stay in that tree. Everywhere. Yeah, they
Speaker 1: they they've been all over the woods and they're gonna
Speaker 1: go up a tree and they may be two trees over.
Speaker 1: And that's where you know, coon hunting's just so pole
Speaker 1: and you know the striker track tree. That coon's not
Speaker 1: gonna jump from tree to tree. That's just gonna be
Speaker 1: sitting there and maybe in a hole. We may know
Speaker 1: it will see him. But but a squirrel, man, you
Speaker 1: go up and anything could happen. But especially late season,
Speaker 1: they get real flighty. Yeah yeah, yeah, yeah, Um what other?
Speaker 1: What other? Like a tree incurred like these dogs I've
Speaker 1: got could be Richter's tree and cursed? Would a tree
Speaker 1: incur be known as anything different? A little bit wider hunting,
Speaker 1: A little bit louder, you said than a feist, Michael,
Speaker 1: because I mean usually because they're just a little bit
Speaker 1: bigger dog. I don't know if it's because they're bigger,
Speaker 1: I mean, trace dog. He's susy. She'll go for a
Speaker 1: mile if you let her. You know, she doesn't. But
Speaker 1: I'd say he's just what's been bred into him. Yeah, Yeah, Yeah,
Speaker 1: she's a fast though she's as a fast. Try what's
Speaker 1: your favorite kind of dog to hunts? Is that what
Speaker 1: you've hunted most of the scuore dogs you've had. Yeah,
Speaker 1: And it's as much about either you get a good
Speaker 1: one or you don't. You know pretty quick, you know,
Speaker 1: I like one that just hunts hard, has a big
Speaker 1: old heart, and just gets after. Yeah, you know, kind
Speaker 1: of like that guy that you're stuck in the batter's box.
Speaker 1: When he was six, he could hit. You know, you
Speaker 1: didn't do nothing. He was able to hit because mom
Speaker 1: and daddy were probably pretty good athletes. Yeah, the same
Speaker 1: thing with a doll. Either you can hit a little
Speaker 1: bit of you can't. Yeah. So yeah, that's that's what
Speaker 1: philosophy and all this paper mumbo jumbo. Man, if I
Speaker 1: lose one of them papers, it ain't no big deal.
Speaker 1: I mean, I I got papers on all my dogs.
Speaker 1: But if you had to give me them paper present
Speaker 1: five minutes or I want you to kill you. You
Speaker 1: don't have to kill me, because I ain't sure if
Speaker 1: we're all love mar But you know, it's just like
Speaker 1: anything else you do. You want to buy something that's
Speaker 1: pretty good, you don't want to buy, you know, a
Speaker 1: beater so to speak. If you're gonna buy a car,
Speaker 1: you want to buy one do you think will be
Speaker 1: pretty dependable? So you know, you can drive a Boatswagon
Speaker 1: or Cadillac. Both of them are gonna get you there.
Speaker 1: But how much more fun you're gonna have driving that Cadillac?
Speaker 1: So yeah, So the biggest thing I look for is
Speaker 1: just driving hard? Yeah, driving hard? Um. Why do you
Speaker 1: like squirrel hunting so much? Traight? What's what is fun
Speaker 1: of it? Because most people haven't squirrel hunt with dogs.
Speaker 1: I mean it's it's kind of a it's almost like
Speaker 1: it's almost like a social event. You ain't gotta be
Speaker 1: quiet when you through them. With squirrels. You can take
Speaker 1: you can take kids and take holler and yell, scream,
Speaker 1: have a good time. You know, the noise ain't gonna
Speaker 1: mess up what we're doing because we're making noise when
Speaker 1: we're coming through the wood. Yeah right, yeah, so yeah,
Speaker 1: that's why I like it. You ain't gotta be quiet.
Speaker 1: You know, you can freeze deaf deer hunting. That's the
Speaker 1: only reason you like s grownds because you don't have
Speaker 1: to be quiet. Well, that and I like watching that dog.
Speaker 1: I like. I like watching that dollar. I'm pulling more
Speaker 1: out of him here. Yeah, but I do like that
Speaker 1: dog trying to figure it out and do all that,
Speaker 1: you know, And and it gets pretty exciting when the
Speaker 1: squirrel takes off through their timber and everybody's shooting at it.
Speaker 1: Oh you bet, you know, it's chaos. The more time
Speaker 1: just hoose, the more fun it is to me. You know,
Speaker 1: if you just drove up and shot one every time
Speaker 1: you pull the trigger, that wouldn't be any fun. Yeah,
Speaker 1: you know, I just like I just like the action.
Speaker 1: You're always moving, you know, you can sitt in that
Speaker 1: deer standing frese to death. Man, I didn't said that twice.
Speaker 1: You've got to have a heater to do that. But
Speaker 1: if you're walking or ride in the mule, you're getting
Speaker 1: a little exercise. Yeah. And the only reason to have them,
Speaker 1: you was because there's too many heels around here. You know,
Speaker 1: if it was flat ground, we could probably still walk
Speaker 1: into it. That'd be like a golfer playing golf without
Speaker 1: a car, you know. Around here. Well, it's a lot
Speaker 1: of fun, you know. Just in the last few years
Speaker 1: I've I've gotten in the squirrel hunting with dogs, now
Speaker 1: you know, we grew up still hunting for squirrels, but
Speaker 1: as a as a mature outdoorsman and woodsman, I was
Speaker 1: like kind of shocked at how your heart skips a
Speaker 1: beat when those dogs are treated and you walk up
Speaker 1: there and that squirrel breaks. I mean, you know, in
Speaker 1: the outdoor world, you you it's like you gain enough
Speaker 1: proficiency that sometimes stuff doesn't. Maybe you don't get as
Speaker 1: excited as you did when you when you were young,
Speaker 1: but man, when that's world breaks loose and everybody's shooting,
Speaker 1: I might as well be eight that it is fun
Speaker 1: and and and then you're frustrated at the same time
Speaker 1: because you're missing, and you're you're you're frustrated at your
Speaker 1: son because you're like, why aren't you shooting there? You
Speaker 1: you know, you just you just it just goes into
Speaker 1: just total chaos for just like thirty forty seconds, and
Speaker 1: then it comes back to normal and you're like, oh
Speaker 1: wait wait, I'm I'm a grown man, and uh, you know,
Speaker 1: I don't need to get this excited about this. It's
Speaker 1: a lot of fun. Hey, Michael Lanier is a squirrel killer.
Speaker 1: He doesn't mess around, No, he doesn't, and he's serious
Speaker 1: about it he is every time. He likes to bring
Speaker 1: him home. What do you like about squirrel hunting, Michael,
Speaker 1: I like missing with the dogs a lot. I like
Speaker 1: missing with the young dogs. Yeah. Uh. I like to
Speaker 1: always have an old dog around that old tree, you
Speaker 1: know that way when you get frustrated with the young ones. Yeah,
Speaker 1: you can take the old one out. But it's just
Speaker 1: a lot of fun. I mean we can hunt from
Speaker 1: May till the end of February. Yeah. Well, you said
Speaker 1: something about your mule that reinforced what I already knew
Speaker 1: about you. You like a project. Oh, I like to
Speaker 1: have something to do. I mean he had a perfectly
Speaker 1: good meal that he had basically tuned up and you
Speaker 1: could shoot off of it, and I mean it was
Speaker 1: it had become a nice mule, really, and he just
Speaker 1: got rid of it because he wanted a project. He
Speaker 1: does the same thing with his dog dogs too. I
Speaker 1: mean he give me a dog a few months ago,
Speaker 1: remember Jess. Oh yeah, And and Jess, he's as good
Speaker 1: a squirrel dog as you go. Ever. Fine, but it
Speaker 1: was doing too good for Michael exactly. He had to
Speaker 1: find him one that well, and he's and tweet and
Speaker 1: get him doing it. And hey, crap. Once that dog
Speaker 1: does it and does it good, are you gonna find
Speaker 1: him another one? Yeah? Every time you're a trainer, hey
Speaker 1: and Joyce, he he, I think he has more for
Speaker 1: and training it. And then a few weeks ago we
Speaker 1: was riding down Cove Creek and he had a mule
Speaker 1: um tied to the back of that little ot Suzuki
Speaker 1: side by side. They ain't got no doors on it, yea,
Speaker 1: And off we went down the road training that mule.
Speaker 1: Don't you know. People thought we was crazy. Now what
Speaker 1: are you trying to do? I teach it to lead,
Speaker 1: make it across the bridge. Yeah, just kind of desensitize it. Yeah,
Speaker 1: training training is fun. It is well, watching him training
Speaker 1: him is fun. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. We gotta get Jason
Speaker 1: a really good mule for next year. He's been trying to.
Speaker 1: He's got a great place to keep one. He just yeah,
Speaker 1: I don't know what, Jason. What do you like about
Speaker 1: Scrown Man? I like a little bit of everything about it.
Speaker 1: I like the dog work, like the history of the
Speaker 1: bloodlines of those dogs. Um, just the calmaraderie. Going out
Speaker 1: on a frosty morning leaves her on falling in uh
Speaker 1: in November and just hear in dog fall Tree. It's
Speaker 1: I love it when we're walking in the woods just
Speaker 1: talking and then you hear that dog bark. That's my
Speaker 1: favorite thing. Yeah, I like to know that man when
Speaker 1: you get there, especially if it's a younger dog. You know,
Speaker 1: it's exciting to get there and see a squirrel there.
Speaker 1: Shoot that squirrel out. Man. For somebody that doesn't have
Speaker 1: you know, let me go back the old, the old phrase,
Speaker 1: he doesn't have a dog in the hunt, or he
Speaker 1: does have a dog in the hunt. You know, it's
Speaker 1: a metaphor for someone that's got a vested interest in something.
Speaker 1: You know, they say, I mean that that That metaphor
Speaker 1: goes through all cultures in in North America anyway. I
Speaker 1: bet people in the city say that and they don't
Speaker 1: even know what they're talking about. Point being, when you
Speaker 1: have a dog in the hunt, it transforms the hunt
Speaker 1: and in and in it. And so someone like like
Speaker 1: is like considering getting a dog, or someone's considering getting
Speaker 1: into squirrel hunting. You don't even know how much fun
Speaker 1: it is until you get it. All you could come
Speaker 1: squirrel hunting with somebody, you know, Trey took me squirrel
Speaker 1: hunting years ago and we had a great time. But
Speaker 1: at the time, I just I wasn't ready. I wasn't
Speaker 1: in the position to get a dog. And you know,
Speaker 1: we had a good time, but it wasn't until I
Speaker 1: got a dog that that you really understand. And I
Speaker 1: knew that would happen because I had coon hunted enough,
Speaker 1: and you know, I knew if I ever got a dog,
Speaker 1: i'd love this. But you know, I just wasn't ready
Speaker 1: to make the commitment. But point being, you know, I mean,
Speaker 1: I hope people listen to this conversation could find an
Speaker 1: entry point into the squirrel dog world. And if you did,
Speaker 1: you would you would enjoy it. And what I think
Speaker 1: is happening to is that people are looking for entry
Speaker 1: points into the outdoor world, and sometimes big game hunting
Speaker 1: intimidates people new people. Big game hunting can be intimidating
Speaker 1: because of you know, it's a it's a low opportunity game.
Speaker 1: I mean, you you're gonna hunt for a whole season
Speaker 1: to hope to get maybe one opportunity at a deer
Speaker 1: or at a bear. Um Man, squirrel hunting is an
Speaker 1: opportunity game. I mean, we're gonna go squirrel hunting. And
Speaker 1: it's not a question of whether we're gonna kill squirrels.
Speaker 1: That's how many, you know. I mean most of the time.
Speaker 1: We get skunked every now and then in a tough
Speaker 1: part of the year. But but so and you don't
Speaker 1: have a two hundred pound animal land on the ground
Speaker 1: that you've got to butcher and take care of the meat.
Speaker 1: And you know you're you've got a one pound animal.
Speaker 1: You know, it's a little bit less commitment. Um. The
Speaker 1: other thing that's cool out squirrel hunting is, especially with
Speaker 1: the dog, is these dogs become part of your family,
Speaker 1: you know. Um, most people have dogs anyway, and I
Speaker 1: have long been a utilitarian dog man. I mean, like,
Speaker 1: we don't have pets around here. I mean, if there's
Speaker 1: gonna be a dog around here, he is going to
Speaker 1: be contributing to the protein surplus of this family. But
Speaker 1: they there are pets too, I mean people that have
Speaker 1: like just a dog. I don't know, you guys probably
Speaker 1: have dogs so present company. Except you know what I'm saying,
Speaker 1: I want a dog. But my point is that these
Speaker 1: hunting dogs fill the pet slot. Okay, that's what I'm
Speaker 1: trying to say. So I'm trying to. I'm trying to
Speaker 1: widen see because there's all these guys that are listening
Speaker 1: to this podcast right now that are trying to figure
Speaker 1: out how they're gonna talk their wife into getting up
Speaker 1: squirrel dogs. That's exactly right, that's really you. What this
Speaker 1: podcast needs to be about is how do you build
Speaker 1: It's all about building the narrative and the family culture
Speaker 1: in order to make a gateway for a squirrel dog.
Speaker 1: And when my family five six years ago wanted we
Speaker 1: decided it was finally time for us to get another dog.
Speaker 1: We had dogs, We've had a lot of dogs, but
Speaker 1: there was a period where we didn't the period. The
Speaker 1: time came when the kids were old enough, we had
Speaker 1: the place it was like, we need dogs. Misty was like,
Speaker 1: let's get a boxer and I was like that, I
Speaker 1: like the idea of the dog. How about we get
Speaker 1: a plot? And that's how that started. And anyway, now
Speaker 1: that we're deep into it, the best decision we ever made.
Speaker 1: Do you guys have any tips? Tray what is what
Speaker 1: are your tips for talking your wife and the letting
Speaker 1: you get a squirrel dog? Don't tell her about it,
Speaker 1: just show up with it, because good advice. I mean
Speaker 1: you can't because I'm at the point right now. Good
Speaker 1: news is my wife will never listen to this. But
Speaker 1: I'm getting the dog next week and she has no
Speaker 1: ideas coming. I'm gonna tell her. So just like that,
Speaker 1: just like that dog at car I took off and
Speaker 1: drove four hundred miles to get. Yeah, it just showed up.
Speaker 1: It just showed up. Well, hey, you're in a little
Speaker 1: bit different classification because you're you're you've already got dogs.
Speaker 1: Once you get one dog, then it's much easier to
Speaker 1: get multiple dogs. Yeah. Let that. Let that. Let your
Speaker 1: wife feed that dog one time and pet it, and it,
Speaker 1: you know dog, you know, licks her in the face
Speaker 1: a couple of times. It's over. Yeah, then the doors open. Yeah,
Speaker 1: she's sold on it in Yeah, but it's between the
Speaker 1: time you got four or five that you're thinking to
Speaker 1: go get another one. You don't say a word. Okay,
Speaker 1: you just bring it home. Hey, in our family, I've
Speaker 1: taken my family out to East Tennessee to Roy Clark's place,
Speaker 1: and we've been to a couple of other big bear
Speaker 1: hunters places, and buddy bear hunters have dogs. Okay, I
Speaker 1: think Mr Roy Clark told me last time I was there,
Speaker 1: I think you had twenty seven dogs. And uh so
Speaker 1: my family, you know, we we think a lot of
Speaker 1: Roy Clark and uh so, like my family thinks that
Speaker 1: the number of dogs you have is a status symbol.
Speaker 1: See you with me, more dogs you have kind of
Speaker 1: like the higher up on the totem pole of society
Speaker 1: you are because Roy Clark's got a lot of dogs.
Speaker 1: So now I think I've got five dogs. And the
Speaker 1: kids are like, yeah, you're getting there, daddy. We probably
Speaker 1: need some more Michael tip tip for how to bring
Speaker 1: home a squirrel dog us all these dogs and she
Speaker 1: is an animal hiter. Uh who's telling the truth here? Okay,
Speaker 1: so she doesn't like the dogs. She likes me to
Speaker 1: have squirrel dollars, but she does not like animals in general.
Speaker 1: My tip would be, do not let your kids tell
Speaker 1: your wife how much the dog cost. Okay, Okay, yeah,
Speaker 1: you don't want to lie about it. But we don't
Speaker 1: even talk about it either. Okay. I like that. I'd
Speaker 1: never condoned Lyne ever, especially inside of the family. But
Speaker 1: I like what you said there. We just don't have
Speaker 1: to talk about it. Good when you slip one time
Speaker 1: told Katie what this dog cost Michael. I've told William
Speaker 1: decide and I said, you like squirrel hing, best keep
Speaker 1: your mouth shut about it, okay, okay, good? And and
Speaker 1: your dogs. I mean you're you're taking full responsibility for
Speaker 1: these dogs. It's not like you know your wife's having
Speaker 1: Uh they're not like living in your house all the time.
Speaker 1: I mean, I'll bring them the puppies in some let
Speaker 1: them round in the truck with us. But no, they're
Speaker 1: they're outside for the most part. Okay, yeah, but I
Speaker 1: like to bring them around the you know, let them
Speaker 1: loosen the yard, spend a lot of time with them.
Speaker 1: Now when Katie's gone, they might sleep in the bed
Speaker 1: with me. That'll that'll get them get him attached to you, Okay,
Speaker 1: all right, Jason tips, I can't contribute to that much because, uh,
Speaker 1: my dogs were with me before my significant other one
Speaker 1: because she was deal regardless, you came with dogs, I came.
Speaker 1: I think there's a strategy here though, before you know,
Speaker 1: you get hitched. Yeah you have dogs, Kime squirrel hunter
Speaker 1: before you even tie yourself down, Yes on to something
Speaker 1: because it's like, that's pretty good idea. But my old
Speaker 1: lady likes to go squirrel hunting with me. That's good,
Speaker 1: that's good. You know. Yeah, I'm kind of I like
Speaker 1: to play the long game in this in this wheelhouse.
Speaker 1: And you know, I married my wife when she was young.
Speaker 1: We've been married for we'll be married twenty years this November.
Speaker 1: And uh so she was young when we first started dating.
Speaker 1: I've been I've been I've been developing family culture, as
Speaker 1: we say, for a long time. So hunting dogs is
Speaker 1: just like valuable to her, which they wouldn't have been
Speaker 1: in her family. She wouldn't have known much about him,
Speaker 1: you know, but I think to her, she just thinks
Speaker 1: like every normal family has like a bunch of hunting dogs.
Speaker 1: And that's good. So I don't have to talk her
Speaker 1: into it. Man, you should have been a salesman. Yeah,
Speaker 1: who you are? That's pretty good deal there, bo the
Speaker 1: long game, play the longest play, the long game stuff. Yeah,
Speaker 1: well that's good. Um, have we missed, you know, the
Speaker 1: conversation about the squirrel dog breeds and different things. It's
Speaker 1: kind of kind of complicated. Is there anything that you
Speaker 1: could say that would um simplify it? I don't know,
Speaker 1: I mean, like or de have we covered it all? Michael?
Speaker 1: I mean the thing I would just say is there's
Speaker 1: fist and there's curves, and then there's a whole bunch
Speaker 1: of different fist and different curves. That's a good way
Speaker 1: to say it. I like that, you know, just hunt
Speaker 1: what you like. Okay, that's a simple way to say it.
Speaker 1: There's fists and there's curves, and there's a whole bunch
Speaker 1: of different fights and curves. That helps me. Okay, you
Speaker 1: know it's good. If I was gonna say anything that
Speaker 1: would make sense about this deal would be by dog.
Speaker 1: If you're getting into it by a dog that started. Yeah,
Speaker 1: you know, because it's a lot of foot traffic, a
Speaker 1: lot of foot time to get one started, to get
Speaker 1: one to do something, because you lose interest if you're not.
Speaker 1: If you don't say one do something, you may lose
Speaker 1: interest before that dog trees. And a definition of a
Speaker 1: started dog to me would be one that's had twenty
Speaker 1: five squirrels shout out to it. Okay, that's just that
Speaker 1: would be started dog. And you're gonna play a little
Speaker 1: bit more false. Let's talk about that. What would uh so,
Speaker 1: where could people find squirrel dogs? I mean, I know
Speaker 1: the answer to this, but I had somebody a week
Speaker 1: ago message be and say hey, where could I find
Speaker 1: a feist? And I was like, well, where could where?
Speaker 1: Where could people find squirrel dogs? And folks has got
Speaker 1: them connections with other hunters, other other folks at squirrel
Speaker 1: hunt because now are most of the the most of
Speaker 1: the squirrel hunting world is in the eastern deciduous forest
Speaker 1: in the south. Am I right, the southeast. I mean
Speaker 1: there's squirrel dogs up in New York State and Michigan
Speaker 1: and different places. Yeah, I mean there's there's squirrel dogs
Speaker 1: from about the Midwest on east period, but mostly down
Speaker 1: in this area, southern Missouri, Arkansas, Mississippi, Alabama, Louisiana, East Texas,
Speaker 1: anywhere with oak, hardwood, timber, hickory ridges, Virginia. Yeah, you're
Speaker 1: gonna find squirrel dogs all the way up to Michigan, Minnesota.
Speaker 1: Even somebody if they were looking for squirrel dogs, I'd say,
Speaker 1: get on Facebook and try to find a squirrel dog
Speaker 1: forum for their state. Like I think we're We've got
Speaker 1: Arkansas squirrel and Coon Hunters for Squirrel Hunters Association, And
Speaker 1: what what you gotta do? And I tell you what
Speaker 1: I've I've been pretty successful at this is latching myself
Speaker 1: to people that are good at something, because you don't
Speaker 1: have to be good starting out if you're latched onto
Speaker 1: somebody that's good. I mean, like my coon dogs. I
Speaker 1: went to guys that had the kind of dogs I wanted.
Speaker 1: I didn't mess around with well, maybe this dog will
Speaker 1: work or maybe, and I was willing to do whatever
Speaker 1: it took to start off something good. And I did
Speaker 1: the same thing with my squirrel dogs. With with what
Speaker 1: Jason told me about this these dogs, and I've been,
Speaker 1: I mean super happy. And it's because because the breeding
Speaker 1: of a dog is gonna be way more important than
Speaker 1: even the training of it. Would you agree, yeah, you
Speaker 1: want a good bred dog. That's the first step towards
Speaker 1: getting into this game with the dogs is that get
Speaker 1: a well bred dog. And that means it's mom and
Speaker 1: daddy are both doing what you want a dog to do.
Speaker 1: I steer. I still hear people talk about brood females like, oh,
Speaker 1: she'd make a she'd make a nice brood female, which
Speaker 1: basically that just means basically a female that's maybe not
Speaker 1: even being hunted. But man, I want a dog that
Speaker 1: it's mama is a good at whatever, proven proven doing it,
Speaker 1: and the daddy is proven and doing it and uh.
Speaker 1: And then once you get your foot into the door,
Speaker 1: whether it's coon hunting or squirrel hunting, and you go
Speaker 1: a time or two, you can learn a ton of
Speaker 1: stuff by going with somebody that knows what they're doing
Speaker 1: one time. I mean I've learned an I didn't hunt
Speaker 1: it with Jason, but I've learned a ton from Trey Michael.
Speaker 1: I mean really, my son Baron nukeom he uh he
Speaker 1: I watched him, Michael when we hunt, and he talks
Speaker 1: his dogs just like you do. He does he he
Speaker 1: everything he does. I'm like, he learned that from Michael.
Speaker 1: An here and I do the same thing because I
Speaker 1: learned from you guys. And see what I'm saying is
Speaker 1: is if you can just if you can go with
Speaker 1: somebody a couple of times, you'll learn a lot. And
Speaker 1: then once you get a dog, you'll learn what you like.
Speaker 1: Like you might get lucky in the first dog. Just
Speaker 1: be exactly what you like, which probably won't happen, could happen,
Speaker 1: but you'll hunt with you know, you hunt with two
Speaker 1: or three different people and you'll see a dog and
Speaker 1: you're like, that's the kind of dog I want and
Speaker 1: you you you know what bloodlines is that dog? Where
Speaker 1: did you get it? You just you just kind of
Speaker 1: start digging in. There's no simple answer. Now, you can't
Speaker 1: buy started dogs, and there are quite a few started
Speaker 1: dogs for sale, but um boy, I'd want to know
Speaker 1: somebody before I buy started dog though, because in my
Speaker 1: mind it's always like, why are you selling that dog? Well,
Speaker 1: most of the time only started dog. They'll take your
Speaker 1: hunt and let you see the dog. Yeah. Uh. And
Speaker 1: some of these old boys just sell them because they
Speaker 1: got too many. I guess, like, are they enjoyed doing
Speaker 1: it and they like to make a little dollar or
Speaker 1: two to pay for their habit. Yeah, you know, so
Speaker 1: there's there's legitimate reasons to sell a dog. Oh, if
Speaker 1: you get a started dog, you a whole lot better
Speaker 1: than a than a than a mule. You don't know
Speaker 1: what you're getting, yeah what it started meal? Yeah, I'm
Speaker 1: I'm you don't have to ride that dog. Know that
Speaker 1: if you go hunting with a fellow that's gonna say
Speaker 1: that dog if he's if he's legitimate and pretty good,
Speaker 1: old boy, he's gonna let you go hunting. He may
Speaker 1: let you go hunting to it three times, or hey,
Speaker 1: he might even let you hunt with him and you
Speaker 1: take the dog home if you pay for it. Yeah,
Speaker 1: like on a trial, a trial. Yeah, and that's a
Speaker 1: good way. That's a good term, some good terminology. And
Speaker 1: if a fella won't let you do that, don't buy
Speaker 1: his dog. Yeah, take the dog on a trial because
Speaker 1: the near love doing that. Yeah. It's like going to
Speaker 1: you know, going to the store and buying you something,
Speaker 1: use it a couple of times, and then send it back,
Speaker 1: get your money back or something. But yeah, he ain't
Speaker 1: I tell him what he'll have at his house. Where'd
Speaker 1: you get that dog? Oh, I'm just gonna I'm just
Speaker 1: gonna say what it'll do. Or I'm gonna try it
Speaker 1: for a little bit. Yeah, he loves doing that. Yeah, okay, uh,
Speaker 1: started dogs? What would you general price reigns for a
Speaker 1: started one year old dog? I know there's a lot
Speaker 1: of variants. Just bloodline is gonna depend a lot of
Speaker 1: you know, there's certain blood lines of dogs five sin
Speaker 1: curs that are more popular and people are gonna take
Speaker 1: advantage of that. And but then there's you know, you
Speaker 1: get a half cur hound or a half FIVET hound
Speaker 1: that's a super good started dog and get it for
Speaker 1: eight hundred thousand dollars. Yeah, you know, but you can
Speaker 1: you know, that's probably what you guys think. It's probably
Speaker 1: gonna be that be about that range fresh dogs that
Speaker 1: start to kill squirrels. But if it's you know, let's
Speaker 1: just say somebody was one of those boys that championed
Speaker 1: one of them dogs dropped, and you're gonna buy one
Speaker 1: that's proven, you know, to get started. You want to
Speaker 1: proving dog, you just throw it out and you're good
Speaker 1: to go. I don't know. I mean, it's it's worth
Speaker 1: whatever somebody wants to give you for it on that day,
Speaker 1: that's right. I mean it could be two thousands of
Speaker 1: four thousand dollars, right, they're not cheap. Yeah, finished dog,
Speaker 1: I would say, yeah, well, I guess it all depends
Speaker 1: on how good I finished dog. But undred up. Michael, Well,
Speaker 1: my son and I usually don't talk about dog prices,
Speaker 1: but yes, well talk about this. You take you go
Speaker 1: hunting that day and you kill fifteen squirrels in the afternoon,
Speaker 1: price just went up. Yeah, I mean that's just the
Speaker 1: way it works. Yeah. Yeah, I mean I've been offered
Speaker 1: some money for a dog before, and I wouldn't take
Speaker 1: the money because I like the dog. Yeah, So getting
Speaker 1: somebody to sell one to you that's already finished, it's
Speaker 1: gonna be tough. Yeah, And that's you got it. You'd
Speaker 1: have to find somebody like Michael that enjoys training young
Speaker 1: dogs or or something. And sometimes guy's legitimately need the
Speaker 1: money or you know, sell a dog, got a need
Speaker 1: and they got a good dog, and like, I'll sell
Speaker 1: that dog for Hey. Let me, y'all follow me on
Speaker 1: this one and see if you think it's true, because
Speaker 1: it is true. Um, any kind of animal that you
Speaker 1: train and start based upon the socio economic status of
Speaker 1: that region is going to have the same price categorization mules,
Speaker 1: coon dogs, squirrel dogs, bird dogs, and I can't speak
Speaker 1: for any part of other part of the country, but
Speaker 1: it's all the same. Think about it. What what could
Speaker 1: you pay for a green broke, half started mule, Well,
Speaker 1: it depends on what it looked like, how old it was,
Speaker 1: how started it was. But you could get a green
Speaker 1: broke mule for eight hundred dollars. What's the started squirrel
Speaker 1: dog cost eight hundred dollars? A finished mule that's pretty good,
Speaker 1: that's safe and it's in its prime age range. You're
Speaker 1: gonna be paying fifteen to eighteen hundred dollars plus all
Speaker 1: the way to the top. And you could go in
Speaker 1: southern Missouri and buy twenty thousand dollar mule from you know,
Speaker 1: some of these big guys up there, y'all see, you'll
Speaker 1: see what I'm saying. But you can buy a heck
Speaker 1: of a And I have quite a few people message
Speaker 1: me from all of the country about mules. And I
Speaker 1: had a lady message me the other day and she
Speaker 1: said she had a sixteen year old mule. I think
Speaker 1: it was in Pennsylvania and had been written by an
Speaker 1: eighty year old man and it was real gentle, but
Speaker 1: it was sixteen years old, and they were one four
Speaker 1: thousand dollars for it. And I was like, man, I
Speaker 1: can't tell you, you know, whether you should do that
Speaker 1: or not. But I said, in Arkansas you could buy
Speaker 1: a heck of a mule for four thousand dollars. But
Speaker 1: it's a different market. We've got a lot of anyway,
Speaker 1: I'm off track. Track is categorization any animal that needs training,
Speaker 1: I mean a coon, dog, any outdoor utilitarian animal about
Speaker 1: the same going price. That's right. It didn't make sense.
Speaker 1: Y'all agree? Yeah, okay, so use that scale. So half
Speaker 1: broke under thousand dollars, medium broke inside of thousands or
Speaker 1: two thousand, well broke two thousand plus mules, coon dogs,
Speaker 1: squirrel dogs. Bam, we just made a chart. Take that
Speaker 1: to the bank. Agree with that, Michael. Michael is kind
Speaker 1: of he's I can't read him. He's like a little
Speaker 1: squirrelly there. Yeah, I can see it, sort of. Okay, Okay,
Speaker 1: Well I think that's handy because people, you gotta get
Speaker 1: into these uh you gotta get into these worlds and
Speaker 1: just kind of dip your feet in to begin to
Speaker 1: understand it. Um. But no, man, the cool thing about
Speaker 1: squirrel hunting as you can do it for a long
Speaker 1: period of time. You can usually hunt on public land.
Speaker 1: There's not you know, the inside a big game hunting.
Speaker 1: There's a lot of competition, I mean in terms of
Speaker 1: like places to go and man, squirrel hunting for the
Speaker 1: most part is a pretty I mean, you might go
Speaker 1: somewhere and there'll be a squirrel hunter there, but that
Speaker 1: guy is not your enemy because he's there, he's probably
Speaker 1: gonna become your friend. I mean, he's not mad because
Speaker 1: you're hunting his buck. Yeah. I mean when you're after
Speaker 1: big there's there's different it's it's it's it's a little
Speaker 1: bit higher stakes. But not squirrel hunting. It's such a
Speaker 1: it's an opportunity sport. Uh. And I mean, well, have
Speaker 1: we talked about eating squirrels? But squirrel meats great to eat,
Speaker 1: they're easy to handle. Um, we've been we've been trying
Speaker 1: new ways to skin them or to to to eat
Speaker 1: them like them. But if we missed anything, boys, this
Speaker 1: this podcast has got to take people from zero to
Speaker 1: the top of the squirrel world. What can we talk
Speaker 1: what have we missed? Well, I'd say if you're wanting
Speaker 1: to get into it, go hunting with quite a few
Speaker 1: different dogs. We'll figure out what you want for you.
Speaker 1: Just go buy one. Yeah, that's good, that's a good one.
Speaker 1: I'm not a competition hunter, but I'm sure I've been
Speaker 1: to some before. I'm sure them fellers would love the company,
Speaker 1: and I love to talk about their dogs. You know,
Speaker 1: you can meet a lot of different folks at one
Speaker 1: of them. Yeah, so a competition hunt might be a
Speaker 1: good place to go. And we didn't even talk about
Speaker 1: competition hunting. That's a whole another sphere of the squirrel
Speaker 1: world that we're not really talking about. We're kind we're
Speaker 1: kind of just talking about pleasure, hunting, meat and hunting.
Speaker 1: As they say, we're trying, I know, Michael and Trey
Speaker 1: and me. I mean, we just want dogs that we
Speaker 1: can kill squirrels over in the competition world. You're looking
Speaker 1: for a dog to kind of do it in a
Speaker 1: specific way. Yeah, it's it's totally different, and I haven't
Speaker 1: component since two thousand nine. It's just I love. My
Speaker 1: favorite thing is at the end of the day seeing
Speaker 1: taking a picture with all my buddies and seeing squirrels
Speaker 1: on the tailgate. That's you know, the memories and the
Speaker 1: hunting and that's what I like. Yeah, so yep, well
Speaker 1: all right, guys, Hey, thanks to Time. Thank you, Trey,
Speaker 1: thank you man enjoying it, Michael, thank you sir, thanks
Speaker 1: for coming out, Jason and Tanks of Time, and uh,
Speaker 1: keep the wild places wild because that's where squirrels live.