1 00:00:13,280 --> 00:00:15,760 Rennae Stubbs: One, two, one two. Okay, Hi everyone, welcome to the 2 00:00:15,760 --> 00:00:19,520 Rennae Stubbs: Rennae Stubbs Tennis Podcast. We are in freezing, cold, rainy, 3 00:00:19,840 --> 00:00:24,400 Rennae Stubbs: miserable spring in New York right now, Hi, Caitlin. 4 00:00:24,200 --> 00:00:26,720 Caitlin Thompson: This is why I don't recognize spring as a season. 5 00:00:27,880 --> 00:00:30,920 Rennae Stubbs: Because it's the only thing it's springing is your depression. 6 00:00:31,040 --> 00:00:34,040 Caitlin Thompson: Yeah, it's a betrayal. Every year you get one seventy 7 00:00:34,080 --> 00:00:35,760 Caitlin Thompson: degree day, the one seventy degree day. 8 00:00:35,800 --> 00:00:35,959 Rennae Stubbs: Yeah. 9 00:00:36,000 --> 00:00:38,919 Caitlin Thompson: Last week I played tennis outside, rode my bike around, wore the cutest 10 00:00:39,320 --> 00:00:44,320 Caitlin Thompson: tennis outfit. I was like, finally I'm back, baby. 11 00:00:44,400 --> 00:00:44,840 Rennae Stubbs: And then. 12 00:00:46,320 --> 00:00:48,000 Rennae Stubbs: The one thing I will say about the spring that 13 00:00:48,040 --> 00:00:52,760 Rennae Stubbs: I really like, yes, clay court season on my TV. 14 00:00:53,040 --> 00:00:57,319 Rennae Stubbs: I know you love it. Listen. I love watching clay 15 00:00:57,400 --> 00:00:59,880 Rennae Stubbs: court tennis as well. You know. The great thing about 16 00:01:00,080 --> 00:01:02,960 Rennae Stubbs: tennis in general is like, you know, when you play 17 00:01:03,000 --> 00:01:06,120 Rennae Stubbs: basketball or soccer or whatever, you know, do you pick 18 00:01:06,200 --> 00:01:08,240 Rennae Stubbs: one of the great sports of the world. And let's 19 00:01:08,280 --> 00:01:10,480 Rennae Stubbs: say soccer is one of the if not the biggest, right, 20 00:01:10,640 --> 00:01:13,600 Rennae Stubbs: biggest playing on the same thing, right, the only difference 21 00:01:13,680 --> 00:01:20,080 Rennae Stubbs: is AstroTurf to grass. Tennis is literally played on multiple surfaces. Cool, 22 00:01:20,240 --> 00:01:23,840 Rennae Stubbs: So to be great, you have to be great flexible. 23 00:01:24,160 --> 00:01:25,440 Rennae Stubbs: You've got to be able to slide. You've got to 24 00:01:25,440 --> 00:01:27,160 Rennae Stubbs: be able to be patient. On clay, you have to 25 00:01:27,160 --> 00:01:30,920 Rennae Stubbs: be able to be methodic. Methodical on hardcourt, you've got 26 00:01:30,959 --> 00:01:32,840 Rennae Stubbs: to be a little bit more explosive. Your body takes 27 00:01:32,880 --> 00:01:34,680 Rennae Stubbs: a bit more of a beating. On grass, you've got 28 00:01:34,720 --> 00:01:36,360 Rennae Stubbs: to be sort of selective when you come to the 29 00:01:36,400 --> 00:01:39,360 Rennae Stubbs: net or being aggressive, or you can't be patient, you 30 00:01:39,440 --> 00:01:42,360 Rennae Stubbs: have to be aggressive. Like every single surface lends itself 31 00:01:42,360 --> 00:01:43,520 Rennae Stubbs: to a different way of playing. 32 00:01:43,640 --> 00:01:45,840 Caitlin Thompson: I like it so much because I like the different 33 00:01:45,920 --> 00:01:49,280 Caitlin Thompson: stories that it gives us, not only in terms of 34 00:01:49,320 --> 00:01:53,840 Caitlin Thompson: which players surge and which players sort of recede from 35 00:01:54,360 --> 00:01:58,000 Caitlin Thompson: the main conversation, because as you noted, the best players 36 00:01:58,240 --> 00:01:59,920 Caitlin Thompson: are at the front of the line on all this, sir, 37 00:02:00,360 --> 00:02:02,640 Caitlin Thompson: because they've figured out how to do everything in the 38 00:02:02,640 --> 00:02:05,120 Caitlin Thompson: toolkit that is required of it's great, but for me, 39 00:02:05,200 --> 00:02:08,840 Caitlin Thompson: I just really like the various stories. This clay is 40 00:02:08,880 --> 00:02:11,079 Caitlin Thompson: a little slippier than that clay, which we'll get into 41 00:02:11,160 --> 00:02:13,560 Caitlin Thompson: because we were just watching some Charleston highlights and as 42 00:02:13,560 --> 00:02:17,760 Caitlin Thompson: you noted, the clay of Charleston, which is made with a 43 00:02:18,280 --> 00:02:25,040 Caitlin Thompson: mined clay from nearby South Carolina is slipperier than like, 44 00:02:25,120 --> 00:02:28,079 Caitlin Thompson: sort of the sticky, muddier red clay, right, And I'm 45 00:02:28,160 --> 00:02:30,040 Caitlin Thompson: willing to bet I have not played it on red 46 00:02:30,040 --> 00:02:31,880 Caitlin Thompson: clay in Houston, but I'm willing to bet that their 47 00:02:31,880 --> 00:02:34,919 Caitlin Thompson: clay is a little different than what you would find in. 48 00:02:35,080 --> 00:02:37,560 Rennae Stubbs: Europe MonteCarlo. Yes, very different. 49 00:02:37,720 --> 00:02:39,520 Caitlin Thompson: The tournament we were just watching in Romania, or the 50 00:02:39,520 --> 00:02:43,320 Caitlin Thompson: one I spent a lot of time watching, which was Marrakesh. 51 00:02:44,400 --> 00:02:45,440 Rennae Stubbs: You love Marrakesh. 52 00:02:45,720 --> 00:02:48,040 Caitlin Thompson: I was just really I just really like the idea 53 00:02:48,080 --> 00:02:51,800 Caitlin Thompson: of looking at something beautiful and sunny, especially on a 54 00:02:51,840 --> 00:02:54,360 Caitlin Thompson: day like two day, when it is forty degrees and rainy. 55 00:02:54,480 --> 00:02:57,320 Rennae Stubbs: I thought that would actually put you more into a depression. 56 00:02:57,520 --> 00:02:59,760 Caitlin Thompson: No, I just am projecting that I'm there to go. 57 00:03:00,000 --> 00:03:01,919 Rennae Stubbs: Wow, look at me. I could be there and not here. 58 00:03:03,040 --> 00:03:06,480 Rennae Stubbs: So let's get into some of the results. We got 59 00:03:06,520 --> 00:03:09,959 Rennae Stubbs: to talk about. Jessica Pegula jpeg. Hey clay court specialists. 60 00:03:09,960 --> 00:03:10,400 Rennae Stubbs: Look at her. 61 00:03:10,520 --> 00:03:14,919 Caitlin Thompson: I'm so impressed not only with her title run in 62 00:03:15,000 --> 00:03:20,200 Caitlin Thompson: Charleston and the difficult draw she had to get there, 63 00:03:20,800 --> 00:03:23,920 Caitlin Thompson: but also she just got to the finals of Miami. 64 00:03:24,040 --> 00:03:26,440 Caitlin Thompson: Yeah yeah, and the two for is tough. I mean 65 00:03:26,480 --> 00:03:29,960 Caitlin Thompson: Daniel Collins did it last year when she won both tournaments. Yeah, Miami, 66 00:03:31,320 --> 00:03:34,720 Caitlin Thompson: JPEG fell a little short against Aryna Sabalenka. No, no, no, 67 00:03:35,440 --> 00:03:38,400 Caitlin Thompson: you know, no small thing, Sabalenka is buy and away the 68 00:03:38,400 --> 00:03:41,000 Caitlin Thompson: best player in the world right now. But to get 69 00:03:41,040 --> 00:03:43,520 Caitlin Thompson: a final in Miami and then to win against a 70 00:03:43,560 --> 00:03:46,360 Caitlin Thompson: pretty incredible field in Charleston was awesome to see. 71 00:03:46,480 --> 00:03:50,000 Rennae Stubbs: Yeah, I mean, listen, I think it's funny when I 72 00:03:50,040 --> 00:03:53,520 Rennae Stubbs: did see that Jess was going and playing in Charleston, 73 00:03:53,800 --> 00:03:55,480 Rennae Stubbs: and she always is going to because she loves it 74 00:03:55,520 --> 00:03:56,760 Rennae Stubbs: there and a lot of players, and I can tell 75 00:03:56,800 --> 00:03:58,360 Rennae Stubbs: you it is truly one of the best tournaments to 76 00:03:58,440 --> 00:04:02,120 Rennae Stubbs: play form a players perspective. They take care of you, 77 00:04:02,120 --> 00:04:06,880 Rennae Stubbs: you know, a Bob and eleanor and the team there 78 00:04:07,200 --> 00:04:09,200 Rennae Stubbs: in Charleston really take care of their players so well. 79 00:04:09,200 --> 00:04:13,360 Rennae Stubbs: They're always giving little gifts. And the hotel's beautiful. Charleston's great. 80 00:04:13,400 --> 00:04:15,480 Rennae Stubbs: It's one of my favorite cities in the in the country, 81 00:04:16,080 --> 00:04:18,120 Rennae Stubbs: so it's it really is a great place to go to. 82 00:04:18,320 --> 00:04:20,040 Rennae Stubbs: The only thing that sometimes can get you there is 83 00:04:20,080 --> 00:04:22,280 Rennae Stubbs: the weather. But they had good weather, so that was 84 00:04:22,760 --> 00:04:24,440 Rennae Stubbs: always a good thing. But you know what for me, 85 00:04:24,680 --> 00:04:29,440 Rennae Stubbs: it's it's to show up to a tournament that you 86 00:04:29,520 --> 00:04:31,760 Rennae Stubbs: have told you're going to go to, when you've gotten 87 00:04:31,760 --> 00:04:34,200 Rennae Stubbs: to a final, like Danielle Collins did the previous year. 88 00:04:34,560 --> 00:04:36,760 Rennae Stubbs: Like that's testament to Jessica as well to like turn 89 00:04:36,839 --> 00:04:39,440 Rennae Stubbs: up and not only turn up, but actually play such 90 00:04:39,440 --> 00:04:42,800 Rennae Stubbs: good tennis. I mean, beating Danielle Collins in the quarterfinals, 91 00:04:42,800 --> 00:04:45,920 Rennae Stubbs: defending champion, and then you know, to see her win 92 00:04:46,000 --> 00:04:50,320 Rennae Stubbs: against in a final. Yeah, it was a good match. 93 00:04:50,520 --> 00:04:52,480 Rennae Stubbs: Kennan really should have taken it into the third set. 94 00:04:52,520 --> 00:04:55,039 Rennae Stubbs: It would have been interesting to see how they both 95 00:04:55,080 --> 00:04:58,119 Rennae Stubbs: reacted in the third Very different circumstances when you're playing 96 00:04:58,120 --> 00:05:00,640 Rennae Stubbs: for a title with one one set up on the line. 97 00:05:01,240 --> 00:05:04,040 Rennae Stubbs: But you know, jess came back from being down five 98 00:05:04,120 --> 00:05:06,560 Rennae Stubbs: to two, and that was a little bit surprising that 99 00:05:06,640 --> 00:05:08,920 Rennae Stubbs: Sophia Kenin sort of get the job done to get 100 00:05:08,920 --> 00:05:11,839 Rennae Stubbs: into her third set. But just you know, a really 101 00:05:11,880 --> 00:05:15,680 Rennae Stubbs: really great tournament for American tennis as well Amanda Annisimova. 102 00:05:15,720 --> 00:05:17,680 Rennae Stubbs: Of course we know what happened there with her having 103 00:05:17,680 --> 00:05:19,760 Rennae Stubbs: to pull out against Kenin. That was a bummer because 104 00:05:19,760 --> 00:05:21,480 Rennae Stubbs: I kind of wanted to see that match. I wanted 105 00:05:21,520 --> 00:05:22,440 Rennae Stubbs: to see those two go out. 106 00:05:22,560 --> 00:05:27,120 Caitlin Thompson: Actually, yeah, those two peak performance. Also hip injury is 107 00:05:27,360 --> 00:05:30,640 Caitlin Thompson: no bueno, Yeah, no point we pulled out of during 108 00:05:30,640 --> 00:05:31,200 Caitlin Thompson: the first set. 109 00:05:31,400 --> 00:05:35,800 Rennae Stubbs: We need Sophia Kenin sorry, we need Amanda Anissimova to stay healthy. Yeah, 110 00:05:35,880 --> 00:05:37,400 Rennae Stubbs: I mean that's been her big issue. 111 00:05:37,240 --> 00:05:37,840 Caitlin Thompson: Big issue. 112 00:05:38,080 --> 00:05:41,120 Rennae Stubbs: Obviously, she took a lot of time away from tennis 113 00:05:40,640 --> 00:05:44,360 Rennae Stubbs: for her mental health, just to sort of reevaluate her 114 00:05:44,720 --> 00:05:46,799 Rennae Stubbs: her life and what she want to do and tennis. 115 00:05:46,839 --> 00:05:49,479 Rennae Stubbs: And you know, we forget about Amanda Anissimova, who lost 116 00:05:49,480 --> 00:05:52,080 Rennae Stubbs: her father not that long ago, you know, probably about 117 00:05:52,080 --> 00:05:54,480 Rennae Stubbs: five years ago now, but you know, he was a 118 00:05:54,520 --> 00:05:58,000 Rennae Stubbs: tremendous he was her coach. So, you know, battling back 119 00:05:58,040 --> 00:06:00,760 Rennae Stubbs: from getting away from the sport now now having to 120 00:06:00,760 --> 00:06:03,560 Rennae Stubbs: deal with these injuries, that's just it's not great. I mean, 121 00:06:03,800 --> 00:06:06,520 Rennae Stubbs: clearly she played a great Miami, but then you know, 122 00:06:06,680 --> 00:06:10,960 Rennae Stubbs: I ran into a sleep deprived to person the next 123 00:06:11,040 --> 00:06:14,400 Rennae Stubbs: day herself. So but but really really great to see 124 00:06:14,839 --> 00:06:16,960 Rennae Stubbs: all these American players doing really, really well. 125 00:06:17,040 --> 00:06:20,080 Caitlin Thompson: Yeah, which actually gives us a nice segue into Houston, 126 00:06:20,279 --> 00:06:25,280 Caitlin Thompson: which had an all American Semis lineup, which was you know, 127 00:06:25,560 --> 00:06:28,479 Caitlin Thompson: clay is not typically the even if it's on you know, 128 00:06:28,560 --> 00:06:31,560 Caitlin Thompson: sort of home soil, no pun intended, is not typically 129 00:06:31,600 --> 00:06:35,440 Caitlin Thompson: something you see Americans, especially the men, succeed on. But 130 00:06:35,480 --> 00:06:38,160 Caitlin Thompson: I have to say, you know, Tommy Paul, Francis Tiafoe, 131 00:06:39,640 --> 00:06:42,600 Caitlin Thompson: Jenson Brooksby, grants to Jenson Brooksby and Brandon Nakashima making 132 00:06:42,640 --> 00:06:45,919 Caitlin Thompson: the semifinals of Houston on red clay was really really 133 00:06:45,920 --> 00:06:48,240 Caitlin Thompson: cool to see and I think really exciting for a 134 00:06:48,240 --> 00:06:50,880 Caitlin Thompson: lot of people who, you know, maybe tune out a 135 00:06:50,920 --> 00:06:53,040 Caitlin Thompson: little bit if they're fans of American men's tennis during 136 00:06:53,040 --> 00:06:55,240 Caitlin Thompson: this time of the year. Okay, well maybe not. Maybe 137 00:06:55,800 --> 00:06:57,320 Caitlin Thompson: there's a reason to set up and pay attention. 138 00:06:57,600 --> 00:07:00,000 Rennae Stubbs: Well, you know, Francis has played while there in the 139 00:07:00,080 --> 00:07:03,599 Rennae Stubbs: past clearly, and he certainly can play on clay. He 140 00:07:03,640 --> 00:07:06,760 Rennae Stubbs: can move on clay. A lot of how do people 141 00:07:06,839 --> 00:07:09,000 Rennae Stubbs: do well on clay and why don't they and why 142 00:07:09,080 --> 00:07:11,240 Rennae Stubbs: some do, etc. Etc. Look a lot of it has 143 00:07:11,240 --> 00:07:14,200 Rennae Stubbs: to do with movement, how you can slide on clay, 144 00:07:14,240 --> 00:07:18,080 Rennae Stubbs: how you can slide in and out of shots. You 145 00:07:18,120 --> 00:07:21,320 Rennae Stubbs: see some people play on clay, whether it be green 146 00:07:21,320 --> 00:07:23,280 Rennae Stubbs: clay or red clay, and they look like they're sort 147 00:07:23,280 --> 00:07:25,320 Rennae Stubbs: of running on ice, and they're just like, well, whoa, 148 00:07:25,320 --> 00:07:27,800 Rennae Stubbs: whoa whoa, whoa, you know, instead of like sliding into 149 00:07:27,840 --> 00:07:29,440 Rennae Stubbs: the shot, being able to hit the shot and then 150 00:07:29,440 --> 00:07:32,880 Rennae Stubbs: get back immediately after that. And I always said to people, 151 00:07:32,880 --> 00:07:35,440 Rennae Stubbs: whether I was coaching or playing, I was like, if 152 00:07:35,480 --> 00:07:37,480 Rennae Stubbs: you see somebody that can't slide to the ball, just 153 00:07:37,560 --> 00:07:40,880 Rennae Stubbs: hit drop shots all day long. So that's just a 154 00:07:40,880 --> 00:07:44,160 Rennae Stubbs: little tip for everybody out there that plays on green clay, 155 00:07:44,560 --> 00:07:47,400 Rennae Stubbs: especially in America or on clay in general. If you 156 00:07:47,440 --> 00:07:50,200 Rennae Stubbs: see somebody not being able to slide, they cannot you 157 00:07:50,800 --> 00:07:53,440 Rennae Stubbs: hit angles, so they're running off the court and then 158 00:07:53,480 --> 00:07:55,400 Rennae Stubbs: they have to take four steps after the shot to 159 00:07:55,440 --> 00:07:58,600 Rennae Stubbs: get back, or you hit drop shots. I love hitting it. 160 00:07:58,720 --> 00:08:00,360 Caitlin Thompson: I love sliding. 161 00:08:00,560 --> 00:08:02,520 Rennae Stubbs: Yeah, it's the one thing I could do really well 162 00:08:02,560 --> 00:08:04,720 Rennae Stubbs: on play. It's like it's slide for days. 163 00:08:04,800 --> 00:08:06,400 Caitlin Thompson: It's really really fun. As a matter of fact, my 164 00:08:06,440 --> 00:08:09,160 Caitlin Thompson: favorite tennis court in New York City is red clay, 165 00:08:09,680 --> 00:08:11,720 Caitlin Thompson: and you can slide decently well. They've maintained it really well. 166 00:08:11,760 --> 00:08:14,480 Caitlin Thompson: It's beautiful and you know, but yes, you're right, where. 167 00:08:14,280 --> 00:08:17,720 Rennae Stubbs: Is that the ninety six street courts up on Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, 168 00:08:17,760 --> 00:08:18,640 Rennae Stubbs: of course we're. 169 00:08:18,440 --> 00:08:20,520 Caitlin Thompson: It's a little bit tucked away and out of and 170 00:08:20,560 --> 00:08:24,239 Caitlin Thompson: out of I say it so yeah, I thought the 171 00:08:24,280 --> 00:08:29,440 Caitlin Thompson: tragedy of Tommy Paul, Oh my god, up the third 172 00:08:29,520 --> 00:08:33,920 Caitlin Thompson: set on Jenson Brooksby in the semi finals, serving for the match 173 00:08:34,520 --> 00:08:35,360 Caitlin Thompson: at five four. 174 00:08:35,800 --> 00:08:37,880 Rennae Stubbs: Well, let's go back a little bit because Jensen was 175 00:08:37,880 --> 00:08:40,600 Rennae Stubbs: actually up in that set for one good point, right, 176 00:08:40,679 --> 00:08:43,120 Rennae Stubbs: So you could arguably say, well, Jensen Brooksby should have 177 00:08:43,120 --> 00:08:45,440 Rennae Stubbs: won six, one, six and the third earlier, but he 178 00:08:45,480 --> 00:08:48,200 Rennae Stubbs: didn't because clearly he wasn't expected to beat Tommy. And 179 00:08:48,240 --> 00:08:50,480 Rennae Stubbs: then Tommy comes back and six five up in the 180 00:08:50,480 --> 00:08:51,840 Rennae Stubbs: third and you're like, oh, of course this is how 181 00:08:51,840 --> 00:08:53,160 Rennae Stubbs: it's going to end. He's going to serve it out, 182 00:08:53,440 --> 00:08:55,440 Rennae Stubbs: doesn't serve it out, Oh no, no, no, ok, god, 183 00:08:55,520 --> 00:08:57,320 Rennae Stubbs: we're going in a tide break, okay, match point, and 184 00:08:57,320 --> 00:08:59,200 Rennae Stubbs: then he loses that match point. It's kind of like, 185 00:08:59,520 --> 00:09:00,880 Rennae Stubbs: oh my god. It was a long day. There was 186 00:09:00,920 --> 00:09:02,560 Rennae Stubbs: a lot of rain there. They had to you know, 187 00:09:02,600 --> 00:09:05,200 Rennae Stubbs: they went from day to night playing that match. But 188 00:09:05,920 --> 00:09:10,280 Rennae Stubbs: Jenson Brooksby going not only and beating Tommy Paul, but 189 00:09:10,320 --> 00:09:12,960 Rennae Stubbs: then going and beating Francis Tiafoe again. He was up 190 00:09:13,040 --> 00:09:15,280 Rennae Stubbs: quite large in the first set. It looked like Francis 191 00:09:15,320 --> 00:09:17,120 Rennae Stubbs: was going to come back, and then he ends up 192 00:09:17,120 --> 00:09:19,840 Rennae Stubbs: serving the setout and then winning the match. But I 193 00:09:19,840 --> 00:09:22,000 Rennae Stubbs: got to give the kid a lot of credit. This 194 00:09:22,040 --> 00:09:24,920 Rennae Stubbs: is somebody who was suspended because he missed his drug 195 00:09:25,000 --> 00:09:28,920 Rennae Stubbs: tests and not only that in that time, and a 196 00:09:29,000 --> 00:09:32,160 Rennae Stubbs: lot of that's an unfortunate thing. Yes, he has to 197 00:09:32,200 --> 00:09:34,400 Rennae Stubbs: be better at obviously being at the places he's supposed 198 00:09:34,400 --> 00:09:37,800 Rennae Stubbs: to be for his drug tests, but you know, look, 199 00:09:37,840 --> 00:09:40,440 Rennae Stubbs: I had to miss drug tests as well myself one time, 200 00:09:40,480 --> 00:09:42,880 Rennae Stubbs: and if I had missed another one just because I forgot, 201 00:09:42,960 --> 00:09:46,000 Rennae Stubbs: I mean I was very diligent after getting the second 202 00:09:46,280 --> 00:09:50,320 Rennae Stubbs: missed where I was supposed to be drug test, So 203 00:09:50,400 --> 00:09:51,760 Rennae Stubbs: he should have been a little bit better with all 204 00:09:51,840 --> 00:09:53,840 Rennae Stubbs: that sort of stuff. But having said that, you know, 205 00:09:53,880 --> 00:09:56,320 Rennae Stubbs: it's really great to see him back and playing so well, 206 00:09:56,360 --> 00:09:58,800 Rennae Stubbs: Like you know, he was playing so well when he 207 00:09:58,840 --> 00:10:00,880 Rennae Stubbs: got that suspension, and and to come back and do 208 00:10:00,960 --> 00:10:03,560 Rennae Stubbs: what he did and win this tournament. That's that's credit 209 00:10:03,559 --> 00:10:06,559 Rennae Stubbs: to young man who also came out and told everyone 210 00:10:06,720 --> 00:10:09,560 Rennae Stubbs: not only that he was on the spectrum, that he 211 00:10:09,600 --> 00:10:13,000 Rennae Stubbs: had autism, and it's like wow, to see him doing 212 00:10:13,040 --> 00:10:14,520 Rennae Stubbs: this is really amazing. 213 00:10:14,720 --> 00:10:18,920 Caitlin Thompson: I think it's it for me humanized him a lot 214 00:10:19,000 --> 00:10:24,400 Caitlin Thompson: and made what beforehand I didn't really understand and behavior 215 00:10:24,800 --> 00:10:27,920 Caitlin Thompson: maybe some sportsmanship issues. It made a little bit more 216 00:10:27,920 --> 00:10:30,360 Caitlin Thompson: contextualized for me where I was like, oh, I see 217 00:10:30,400 --> 00:10:33,880 Caitlin Thompson: he's neurodivergent. That's actually really helpful to be able to 218 00:10:33,960 --> 00:10:37,640 Caitlin Thompson: understand that. You know, his on court behavior doesn't necessarily 219 00:10:37,679 --> 00:10:42,920 Caitlin Thompson: look like deliberately Yeah, it doesn't feel like maybe he's 220 00:10:42,920 --> 00:10:49,520 Caitlin Thompson: being deliberately you know, unsporting. So I feel like, yeah, no, 221 00:10:49,559 --> 00:10:53,160 Caitlin Thompson: you're right. And again it's a testament to like having 222 00:10:53,679 --> 00:10:56,400 Caitlin Thompson: some transparency and vulnerability to talk about something. But also 223 00:10:56,440 --> 00:10:58,199 Caitlin Thompson: then it allows us to celebrate him and be like, 224 00:10:58,240 --> 00:11:02,040 Caitlin Thompson: oh wow, in spite of being neurodivergent, it is something 225 00:11:02,040 --> 00:11:03,640 Caitlin Thompson: that he has had to overcome, and now it makes 226 00:11:03,640 --> 00:11:05,360 Caitlin Thompson: it a little easier to root for this guy. Yeah, 227 00:11:05,360 --> 00:11:07,600 Caitlin Thompson: you know, because like with all these professional athletes, you know, 228 00:11:07,600 --> 00:11:12,120 Caitlin Thompson: the tennis is elite. You know, obviously day in and 229 00:11:12,200 --> 00:11:14,000 Caitlin Thompson: day out, you know, people have their ups and downs. 230 00:11:14,120 --> 00:11:16,080 Caitlin Thompson: But I think in general, if there's a player who 231 00:11:16,720 --> 00:11:19,240 Caitlin Thompson: can let us in on something like that, it becomes 232 00:11:19,240 --> 00:11:22,280 Caitlin Thompson: a little bit more you know, it becomes sort of 233 00:11:22,320 --> 00:11:26,680 Caitlin Thompson: like the rich tapestry of the tennis ecosystem as opposed 234 00:11:26,679 --> 00:11:28,080 Caitlin Thompson: to like, oh I don't like this guy yeah. 235 00:11:28,120 --> 00:11:31,640 Caitlin Thompson: I mean, look, Madison Key is talking about going to 236 00:11:31,720 --> 00:11:34,680 Caitlin Thompson: therapy and not just sports therapy, actually going to therapy 237 00:11:34,679 --> 00:11:37,200 Caitlin Thompson: to figure out why it was that she wasn't loving 238 00:11:37,320 --> 00:11:40,199 Caitlin Thompson: and had a good relationship with tennis, and her being 239 00:11:40,200 --> 00:11:42,160 Caitlin Thompson: able to work on that and figure that out made 240 00:11:42,160 --> 00:11:45,679 Caitlin Thompson: it made her understand how her feelings were affecting her 241 00:11:45,720 --> 00:11:48,120 Caitlin Thompson: on the court. And that's that's what we're talking about. 242 00:11:48,120 --> 00:11:50,080 Caitlin Thompson: When players are a little bit more open about how 243 00:11:50,120 --> 00:11:53,040 Caitlin Thompson: they feel and why they do the things they do, 244 00:11:53,400 --> 00:11:55,880 Caitlin Thompson: that's a great thing. So I think Jensen has opened 245 00:11:55,960 --> 00:11:57,880 Caitlin Thompson: up a lot of I have to say, I think 246 00:11:57,880 --> 00:12:00,440 Caitlin Thompson: it's a lot of windows to a lot and for 247 00:12:00,559 --> 00:12:01,520 Caitlin Thompson: a lot of kids out. 248 00:12:01,400 --> 00:12:03,840 Caitlin Thompson: There, I hope, So I hope we continue. Somebody else 249 00:12:04,280 --> 00:12:07,200 Caitlin Thompson: who we should celebrate on this podcast, who was also 250 00:12:07,240 --> 00:12:11,200 Caitlin Thompson: playing in Charleston and who's been very open about, you know, 251 00:12:11,240 --> 00:12:13,240 Caitlin Thompson: so the direction her life has taken and so much 252 00:12:13,240 --> 00:12:16,800 Caitlin Thompson: so that she's created an incredibly entertaining and fun vlag 253 00:12:16,920 --> 00:12:20,000 Caitlin Thompson: out of it. Is Daria Kasatikina, who is your new 254 00:12:20,120 --> 00:12:20,839 Caitlin Thompson: country woman. 255 00:12:20,960 --> 00:12:23,880 Rennae Stubbs: Yes this, I have to say, I was in Indian 256 00:12:23,920 --> 00:12:27,479 Rennae Stubbs: Wells and there's a man that works for Tennis Australia 257 00:12:27,920 --> 00:12:31,680 Rennae Stubbs: quite senior up in tennis Australia was I saw him 258 00:12:31,920 --> 00:12:35,800 Rennae Stubbs: talking to John Morris and who is Daria Kasatkina's agent? 259 00:12:36,320 --> 00:12:40,160 Rennae Stubbs: And they were having a very you know, intimate conversation 260 00:12:40,400 --> 00:12:42,000 Rennae Stubbs: and I was like, what's going on over there? And 261 00:12:42,000 --> 00:12:45,080 Rennae Stubbs: then I was like, wait a second, is she like 262 00:12:45,360 --> 00:12:48,600 Rennae Stubbs: talking and thinking about becoming Australian? Sorry? 263 00:12:48,600 --> 00:12:48,840 Caitlin Thompson: Did you just solve a case detective? 264 00:12:49,679 --> 00:12:53,360 Rennae Stubbs: Yes? Life, I swear my life and Daria, we'll prove 265 00:12:53,360 --> 00:12:56,440 Rennae Stubbs: it because I saw her a couple of minutes later 266 00:12:56,480 --> 00:12:59,040 Rennae Stubbs: and I said to her, were recruiting you, We're recruiting you, 267 00:12:59,080 --> 00:13:02,240 Rennae Stubbs: and she goes maybe, and then sure enough what it 268 00:13:02,280 --> 00:13:04,760 Rennae Stubbs: was like a week after Indian wells, Yeah, it gets 269 00:13:04,760 --> 00:13:07,360 Rennae Stubbs: announced and I was like, oh my god, I was right. 270 00:13:07,600 --> 00:13:11,280 Caitlin Thompson: But a classic so great obviously for anybody who does 271 00:13:11,320 --> 00:13:13,120 Caitlin Thompson: not know or not does not listen to this podcast 272 00:13:13,120 --> 00:13:18,920 Caitlin Thompson: area because how can I Russian origin? Yes, openly gay, yes, 273 00:13:19,600 --> 00:13:22,600 Caitlin Thompson: and in a relationship with her girlfriend and they do 274 00:13:22,640 --> 00:13:24,480 Caitlin Thompson: have vlog and she's you know, I think one of 275 00:13:24,520 --> 00:13:27,199 Caitlin Thompson: the tour's most delightful players. She's fun to watch, She's 276 00:13:27,200 --> 00:13:29,599 Caitlin Thompson: got a lot of tools, she's obviously a great athlete, 277 00:13:30,200 --> 00:13:32,040 Caitlin Thompson: and I think she's a fan favorite for a lot 278 00:13:32,040 --> 00:13:36,280 Caitlin Thompson: of reasons, you know, being gay, in Vladimir Putin's Russia 279 00:13:35,800 --> 00:13:38,000 Caitlin Thompson: well and speaking up about it. Bad news. She has 280 00:13:38,040 --> 00:13:40,520 Caitlin Thompson: spoken up about it and being you know, very very 281 00:13:40,520 --> 00:13:42,319 Caitlin Thompson: overtly political, you know, but this is one of the 282 00:13:42,360 --> 00:13:44,439 Caitlin Thompson: countries that has like outlawed homosexuality. 283 00:13:45,760 --> 00:13:50,200 Rennae Stubbs: G'day mate. So of course I texted her immediately when 284 00:13:50,200 --> 00:13:51,960 Rennae Stubbs: I saw it, and I said I knew it. And 285 00:13:51,960 --> 00:13:57,240 Rennae Stubbs: by the way, that yeah, so look, Daria Saville, Daria 286 00:13:57,679 --> 00:14:02,080 Rennae Stubbs: Gavrilova former Gavrilova, is one of Daria's best friends. So 287 00:14:02,120 --> 00:14:04,480 Rennae Stubbs: I can imagine the conversation has been had by them 288 00:14:04,559 --> 00:14:07,000 Rennae Stubbs: over the months. I haven't spoken to Dasha about it, but 289 00:14:07,320 --> 00:14:10,480 Rennae Stubbs: I would imagine that they had talked quite extensively about 290 00:14:10,480 --> 00:14:13,400 Rennae Stubbs: living in Australia, about moving to Australia. 291 00:14:14,000 --> 00:14:19,080 Caitlin Thompson: And how old was she? Quite young, she was sort 292 00:14:19,080 --> 00:14:21,280 Caitlin Thompson: of converted, I guess from Russia. 293 00:14:21,440 --> 00:14:26,120 Rennae Stubbs: Yeah, I believe in her early twenties. But she I'd 294 00:14:26,200 --> 00:14:28,640 Rennae Stubbs: have to think about it. But look, she's she's been 295 00:14:28,680 --> 00:14:30,760 Rennae Stubbs: a part of the Australian tapestry of tennis for so 296 00:14:30,840 --> 00:14:34,160 Rennae Stubbs: long now, I would say a decade, and of course 297 00:14:34,280 --> 00:14:37,080 Rennae Stubbs: married her husband, Luke Saville, who's in Australia. He's an 298 00:14:37,080 --> 00:14:40,760 Rennae Stubbs: Australian tennis player, just retired and so look they live 299 00:14:40,760 --> 00:14:46,560 Rennae Stubbs: in Melbourne. They you know, Dasha Gavrilova is or Saville 300 00:14:46,640 --> 00:14:50,520 Rennae Stubbs: is very Australian, represents Australia in the Olympics and fed 301 00:14:50,560 --> 00:14:53,440 Rennae Stubbs: Cup and you know, her Australian accent is pretty good now, 302 00:14:53,560 --> 00:14:57,600 Rennae Stubbs: you know. So it's nice to see this from a standpoint. 303 00:14:57,240 --> 00:15:01,960 Caitlin Thompson: From an international competition standpoint. You know, Australia just gained 304 00:15:02,040 --> 00:15:03,160 Caitlin Thompson: another top twenty player. 305 00:15:03,200 --> 00:15:05,280 Rennae Stubbs: Hey, we'll take it. I think there's still a conversation 306 00:15:05,400 --> 00:15:08,080 Rennae Stubbs: if she can represent Australia and when, But it'll be 307 00:15:08,120 --> 00:15:11,760 Rennae Stubbs: really wonderful to see her out there, you know. So 308 00:15:12,440 --> 00:15:16,600 Rennae Stubbs: we've recruited somebody good players Ajla Tomjlanovitch, Yeah, Darius Saville 309 00:15:17,200 --> 00:15:20,560 Rennae Stubbs: of course. Now Kasatkina, so hey, way to go tennis Australia. 310 00:15:20,600 --> 00:15:24,600 Caitlin Thompson: While we're talking about Daria Saville I sort of flagged 311 00:15:24,640 --> 00:15:27,560 Caitlin Thompson: something that I thought was really interesting. Late last week 312 00:15:27,680 --> 00:15:30,880 Caitlin Thompson: she went out on social media to talk about how 313 00:15:31,840 --> 00:15:38,040 Caitlin Thompson: disappointed she found it that brands were keen to sponsor 314 00:15:38,200 --> 00:15:41,760 Caitlin Thompson: the wives and girlfriends of tennis players sort of influencers 315 00:15:41,760 --> 00:15:43,840 Caitlin Thompson: in the tennis space. You would say keen to be 316 00:15:44,000 --> 00:15:46,200 Caitlin Thompson: involved in the tennis world, just not in the tennis 317 00:15:46,240 --> 00:15:50,720 Caitlin Thompson: world way that you would hope, well, she would certainly hope 318 00:15:50,720 --> 00:15:55,440 Caitlin Thompson: that the brands would I think pay female athletes instead 319 00:15:55,480 --> 00:15:58,000 Caitlin Thompson: of paying wives and girlfriends. And the reaction to this 320 00:15:58,080 --> 00:16:01,560 Caitlin Thompson: has been, you know, sort of predictably mixed. I'm curious 321 00:16:01,600 --> 00:16:05,840 Caitlin Thompson: as to your reaction to it, because, yes, players on 322 00:16:05,920 --> 00:16:09,040 Caitlin Thompson: the pro tour, especially women who are maybe not necessarily 323 00:16:09,040 --> 00:16:10,760 Caitlin Thompson: in the top twenty all of those goes for men too, 324 00:16:12,560 --> 00:16:15,920 Caitlin Thompson: don't often enjoy the preponderance of brand deals. And we 325 00:16:15,960 --> 00:16:18,320 Caitlin Thompson: have seen in the last couple of years, especially an 326 00:16:18,440 --> 00:16:22,520 Caitlin Thompson: uptick in brands, and by brands, I mean every brandy, brands, 327 00:16:22,560 --> 00:16:31,480 Caitlin Thompson: liquor brands, media brands, creating a lot of content with influencers, 328 00:16:31,720 --> 00:16:34,080 Caitlin Thompson: some of whom are sort of notable wives and girlfriends, 329 00:16:34,080 --> 00:16:37,800 Caitlin Thompson: and we can talk about who they are and you know, 330 00:16:37,840 --> 00:16:42,960 Caitlin Thompson: how they operate in the ecosystem. But this is relatively 331 00:16:43,040 --> 00:16:44,720 Caitlin Thompson: new to tennis. I think it's probably been in other 332 00:16:44,720 --> 00:16:47,600 Caitlin Thompson: sports for a long time. And I mean, yes, Daria 333 00:16:47,920 --> 00:16:51,520 Caitlin Thompson: was very keen to sort of say, hey, I talked 334 00:16:51,520 --> 00:16:53,840 Caitlin Thompson: to some of my friends who are influencers and I 335 00:16:53,880 --> 00:16:55,600 Caitlin Thompson: asked them if this would be appropriate for me to 336 00:16:55,960 --> 00:16:58,960 Caitlin Thompson: talk about and they said yes. So yeah, I wonder 337 00:16:59,120 --> 00:17:01,240 Caitlin Thompson: she didn't name any names, so it sounded less of 338 00:17:01,240 --> 00:17:02,960 Caitlin Thompson: a personal attack and more of just like a plead 339 00:17:03,000 --> 00:17:05,000 Caitlin Thompson: to brands to work with female athletes. 340 00:17:05,240 --> 00:17:08,639 Rennae Stubbs: Yeah, listen, this is a double edged sword right in 341 00:17:08,680 --> 00:17:13,400 Rennae Stubbs: a lot of ways, because clearly some of the wives, 342 00:17:13,440 --> 00:17:15,919 Rennae Stubbs: in particular Morgan... 343 00:17:16,000 --> 00:17:24,968 Caitlin Thompson: Morgan's not a wife, and Ayan Bloomfield is dating Frances Tiafoe 344 00:17:24,968 --> 00:17:27,560 Caitlin Thompson: and also was a Division one tennis player at UCLA. Yes, 345 00:17:28,040 --> 00:17:32,119 Caitlin Thompson: and Morgan Riddle has probably gotten the most attention in 346 00:17:32,160 --> 00:17:34,600 Caitlin Thompson: the the sort of wives and girlfriends influencer space. She 347 00:17:34,640 --> 00:17:37,160 Caitlin Thompson: is dating Taylor Fritz. Yeah. There's another one, Paige Lorenze, who 348 00:17:37,400 --> 00:17:40,480 Caitlin Thompson: is dating Temmy Paul, who's got her own brand. Yeah, 349 00:17:40,560 --> 00:17:41,800 Caitlin Thompson: so there's a there's a handful here. 350 00:17:41,880 --> 00:17:43,880 Rennae Stubbs: Yeah. So so I think, first of all, I want 351 00:17:43,880 --> 00:17:47,439 Rennae Stubbs: to say, look the fact that those particular girlfriends of 352 00:17:47,480 --> 00:17:50,080 Rennae Stubbs: those particular tennis players have gotten a lot of brands. 353 00:17:50,119 --> 00:17:52,600 Rennae Stubbs: Look there, the three of them are beautiful, Let's just 354 00:17:52,600 --> 00:17:56,960 Rennae Stubbs: put it out there, straight up, gorgeous women. They have 355 00:17:57,040 --> 00:18:03,080 Rennae Stubbs: made an effort themselves to do the vlogs, do the instagrams, 356 00:18:03,840 --> 00:18:08,120 Rennae Stubbs: meet the right people, talk to brands themselves. They're putting 357 00:18:08,160 --> 00:18:10,080 Rennae Stubbs: themselves out there and they're doing the work, all right, 358 00:18:10,160 --> 00:18:12,800 Rennae Stubbs: So they're not brands. Aren't just popping in and saying, hey, guys, 359 00:18:13,080 --> 00:18:15,439 Rennae Stubbs: we see that you're the girlfriend of would you do 360 00:18:15,560 --> 00:18:19,040 Rennae Stubbs: this now? Yeah? Sure, they're getting exposure because they're on television, right, 361 00:18:19,080 --> 00:18:21,320 Rennae Stubbs: So when Francis Tiafoe is playing the US Open, or 362 00:18:21,680 --> 00:18:25,040 Rennae Stubbs: Tommy Paul or Taylor Fitz, the wives are getting shown. 363 00:18:25,200 --> 00:18:28,240 Rennae Stubbs: The girlfriends are getting shown on television a lot. Okay, 364 00:18:28,240 --> 00:18:31,159 Rennae Stubbs: so they're getting their own They're getting attention because of 365 00:18:31,200 --> 00:18:34,119 Rennae Stubbs: their boyfriends, for sure, but they have to put in 366 00:18:34,119 --> 00:18:36,199 Rennae Stubbs: the work themselves, and both of them and all of 367 00:18:36,200 --> 00:18:39,919 Rennae Stubbs: those women in particular, and any other influencer. You have 368 00:18:39,960 --> 00:18:42,119 Rennae Stubbs: to put in the work. It's not like you just 369 00:18:42,200 --> 00:18:44,000 Rennae Stubbs: put on the camera and be like blah blah blah. 370 00:18:44,040 --> 00:18:46,200 Rennae Stubbs: They do the dress. I mean, I saw a Yan yesterday. 371 00:18:46,200 --> 00:18:48,959 Rennae Stubbs: She'd put on this dress and she's talking about this, 372 00:18:49,040 --> 00:18:51,359 Rennae Stubbs: and she's talking about her skincare, and people follow them. 373 00:18:51,760 --> 00:18:55,040 Rennae Stubbs: And therefore, if you have a following, it's like when 374 00:18:55,080 --> 00:18:59,440 Rennae Stubbs: you have the demand, you will get brands and so that. 375 00:19:00,440 --> 00:19:03,160 Rennae Stubbs: So if you, as a tennis player, are gonna complain 376 00:19:03,240 --> 00:19:08,720 Rennae Stubbs: about it or agree with Dasha Savile, you have to 377 00:19:08,720 --> 00:19:10,880 Rennae Stubbs: put in the work as well. You have to get 378 00:19:10,960 --> 00:19:13,000 Rennae Stubbs: dressed up, you have to you know. One of the 379 00:19:13,040 --> 00:19:15,520 Rennae Stubbs: things that Dasha was saying, I guess a sweaty, sporty 380 00:19:15,560 --> 00:19:17,720 Rennae Stubbs: woman is not going to get as much love as 381 00:19:17,760 --> 00:19:20,000 Rennae Stubbs: a beautiful woman who's putting on hair and makeup and 382 00:19:20,040 --> 00:19:25,439 Rennae Stubbs: a great outfit. Okay, yes, you know, supply and demand. 383 00:19:26,280 --> 00:19:29,640 Rennae Stubbs: I don't know. I feel like both can be right 384 00:19:29,760 --> 00:19:31,800 Rennae Stubbs: in the situation. That's how I feel about it. 385 00:19:31,840 --> 00:19:35,400 Caitlin Thompson: Yeah, I would sort of add to me. The thing 386 00:19:35,440 --> 00:19:42,439 Caitlin Thompson: that I really admire about the sort of conversation no, 387 00:19:42,520 --> 00:19:48,359 Caitlin Thompson: the wives and girlfriends is that they've figured out as stories. 388 00:19:48,440 --> 00:19:50,600 Caitlin Thompson: I mean, Morgan Riddle by far as the biggest one, 389 00:19:50,720 --> 00:19:54,840 Caitlin Thompson: and she is by far the best storyteller. Yeah, she's 390 00:19:55,040 --> 00:19:57,600 Caitlin Thompson: crafting not only sort of a persona, but also content 391 00:19:57,640 --> 00:19:59,960 Caitlin Thompson: that these brands want. And so, yes, does it hurt 392 00:20:00,119 --> 00:20:03,240 Caitlin Thompson: that these these folks are, you know, in full hair 393 00:20:03,280 --> 00:20:06,160 Caitlin Thompson: and makeup as you mentioned earlier, Obviously they're very attractive 394 00:20:06,200 --> 00:20:08,960 Caitlin Thompson: and there are you know, there are some realities of 395 00:20:09,000 --> 00:20:09,880 Caitlin Thompson: the market that. 396 00:20:10,560 --> 00:20:13,040 Rennae Stubbs: Uh, you know, sadly contour to that. 397 00:20:13,720 --> 00:20:16,000 Caitlin Thompson: Yeah, the contour to that, sure, But I also want 398 00:20:16,000 --> 00:20:18,760 Caitlin Thompson: to call out, like the tremendous amount of work and storytelling. 399 00:20:18,840 --> 00:20:22,800 Caitlin Thompson: And I think when we've seen athletes tell stories, especially 400 00:20:22,840 --> 00:20:25,119 Caitlin Thompson: if it's sort of a continued effort as part of 401 00:20:25,160 --> 00:20:28,879 Caitlin Thompson: an ongoing you know, persona or a performance that I 402 00:20:28,880 --> 00:20:31,040 Caitlin Thompson: think is additive to their tennis. You know, we just 403 00:20:31,080 --> 00:20:33,879 Caitlin Thompson: praise Daria Kasatakina for having a great vlog, but she 404 00:20:33,920 --> 00:20:36,359 Caitlin Thompson: does regularly where she interviews other players. You know, Daria 405 00:20:36,400 --> 00:20:41,472 Caitlin Thompson: Kasatkina is never going to be the spokesperson for Chanel 406 00:20:41,472 --> 00:20:43,720 Caitlin Thompson: or Dior, that's not her brand and that's certainly not 407 00:20:43,800 --> 00:20:46,800 Caitlin Thompson: something she seems interested in. But her relatability and her 408 00:20:46,880 --> 00:20:48,400 Caitlin Thompson: humor and her ability to sort of be a locker 409 00:20:48,480 --> 00:20:51,080 Caitlin Thompson: room favorite and get other players to interview like indicates 410 00:20:51,080 --> 00:20:53,000 Caitlin Thompson: to me that the following she has is based on 411 00:20:53,119 --> 00:20:56,040 Caitlin Thompson: work and effort and you know, something really authentic. And 412 00:20:56,119 --> 00:20:58,119 Caitlin Thompson: you know, similarly, when we see Danielle Collins sort of 413 00:20:58,119 --> 00:21:02,399 Caitlin Thompson: embrace her silliness and kind of you know, outside personality, 414 00:21:02,400 --> 00:21:05,760 Caitlin Thompson: when we've seen Jess Pegula ride the subway to you know, 415 00:21:05,880 --> 00:21:08,600 Caitlin Thompson: the US Open instead of taking a helicopter, not that 416 00:21:08,640 --> 00:21:10,040 Caitlin Thompson: she was going to, but you get my point. Like 417 00:21:10,280 --> 00:21:11,879 Caitlin Thompson: when players lean in a little bit, and it's kind of, 418 00:21:11,960 --> 00:21:13,960 Caitlin Thompson: you know, I think similar to the Jenson Brooksby conversation 419 00:21:14,040 --> 00:21:17,119 Caitlin Thompson: we were just having, which is the more players and I 420 00:21:17,200 --> 00:21:19,199 Caitlin Thompson: get your point, it is a double edged sword, but 421 00:21:19,200 --> 00:21:21,840 Caitlin Thompson: the more players sort of embrace the story, the transparency, 422 00:21:21,840 --> 00:21:24,800 Caitlin Thompson: the vulnerability, the idea that they are, you know, human 423 00:21:24,800 --> 00:21:28,840 Caitlin Thompson: beings who have stories to tell and can tell them, 424 00:21:29,000 --> 00:21:30,240 Caitlin Thompson: I think the easier this will be. 425 00:21:30,359 --> 00:21:32,720 Rennae Stubbs: Yeah, I mean, look, tennis players have a job. They 426 00:21:32,880 --> 00:21:36,080 Rennae Stubbs: get up in the morning, they go train, they work out, 427 00:21:36,240 --> 00:21:37,840 Rennae Stubbs: then they go to physio, then they do all of 428 00:21:37,880 --> 00:21:39,920 Rennae Stubbs: that sort of stuff. And what's exciting about that till 429 00:21:39,920 --> 00:21:42,119 Rennae Stubbs: brand you know what? I mean to show that, Okay, 430 00:21:42,200 --> 00:21:44,359 Rennae Stubbs: they're going to practice for two days. Whereas you know, 431 00:21:45,440 --> 00:21:48,639 Rennae Stubbs: you know, a wag can sort of like say, hi, guys, 432 00:21:48,640 --> 00:21:51,359 Rennae Stubbs: I'm here at the thing. Here's my product placement, and 433 00:21:51,800 --> 00:21:53,720 Rennae Stubbs: here's what we do, and here's the makeup I wear, 434 00:21:53,760 --> 00:21:55,520 Rennae Stubbs: and here's the mascot or I wear. And this doesn't 435 00:21:55,560 --> 00:21:58,080 Rennae Stubbs: run even when I'm watching my boyfriend play tennis, and 436 00:21:58,119 --> 00:22:01,119 Rennae Stubbs: blah blah blah. I mean there's just waste to you 437 00:22:01,200 --> 00:22:04,680 Rennae Stubbs: hit a certain demographic, they go, oh, I relate to that, right, 438 00:22:04,840 --> 00:22:07,440 Rennae Stubbs: Whereas do you hit a certain demographic when you're like, 439 00:22:07,480 --> 00:22:08,800 Rennae Stubbs: oh my god, I just went to the gym for 440 00:22:08,800 --> 00:22:12,680 Rennae Stubbs: two hours, I went to physio. Here in my sweat marks, 441 00:22:12,880 --> 00:22:15,120 Rennae Stubbs: it's like, do you who relates to that? Yeah, there's 442 00:22:15,119 --> 00:22:17,159 Rennae Stubbs: plenty of people that kind of relate to that, So 443 00:22:17,200 --> 00:22:19,240 Rennae Stubbs: how do you embrace that? I want to call out 444 00:22:19,800 --> 00:22:22,560 Rennae Stubbs: I think the wt A trying in their right to 445 00:22:22,720 --> 00:22:25,320 Rennae Stubbs: actually help along these lines a little bit more. When 446 00:22:25,320 --> 00:22:28,760 Rennae Stubbs: they have that influencer lunch and dinners and things like that, 447 00:22:28,800 --> 00:22:31,919 Rennae Stubbs: they're inviting that. They're inviting the influencers in, but then 448 00:22:31,960 --> 00:22:34,719 Rennae Stubbs: they're they're having some of the players do a lot 449 00:22:34,800 --> 00:22:39,320 Rennae Stubbs: of the vlogs, whether it be Darry Gavelova, Savil or not. 450 00:22:39,480 --> 00:22:41,720 Rennae Stubbs: So they're trying, they're trying to integrate them in, but 451 00:22:42,400 --> 00:22:44,680 Rennae Stubbs: the influencers, do you know how to do it better? 452 00:22:44,760 --> 00:22:47,879 Caitlin Thompson: Also, the influencers come and go. I mean that's the 453 00:22:47,920 --> 00:22:52,879 Caitlin Thompson: other thing is that influencer marketing generally has you know, 454 00:22:52,960 --> 00:22:54,640 Caitlin Thompson: sort of ebbed and flowed. I don't know that it's 455 00:22:54,640 --> 00:22:56,000 Caitlin Thompson: going to be here forever. If you're on the pro 456 00:22:56,040 --> 00:22:58,880 Caitlin Thompson: tour and making a living as a pro tennis player, Like. 457 00:22:58,840 --> 00:23:00,919 Rennae Stubbs: That's your main job and you can make a lot 458 00:23:00,960 --> 00:23:02,480 Rennae Stubbs: of money, is this Yes, Yeah, you can make a 459 00:23:02,520 --> 00:23:05,359 Rennae Stubbs: lot of money winning tennis matches, So that becomes way 460 00:23:05,400 --> 00:23:08,720 Rennae Stubbs: more important than it does to maybe show what hairspray 461 00:23:08,720 --> 00:23:11,119 Rennae Stubbs: you're using that day. That said, I would like to 462 00:23:11,600 --> 00:23:14,080 Rennae Stubbs: use this big platform that we have to make a 463 00:23:14,080 --> 00:23:18,239 Rennae Stubbs: call to Garbiñe Muguruza's husband, who is extremely attractive and 464 00:23:18,320 --> 00:23:20,720 Rennae Stubbs: somebody we do not see enough on camera. I see 465 00:23:20,760 --> 00:23:23,680 Rennae Stubbs: Garbiña all the time, who's now an ambassador for tennis, but. 466 00:23:23,680 --> 00:23:24,720 Rennae Stubbs: She's not playing anymore. 467 00:23:24,800 --> 00:23:27,719 Caitlin Thompson: I'm just saying I want more men, I want more boyfriends, 468 00:23:27,760 --> 00:23:30,320 Caitlin Thompson: I want BAGs in my life. 469 00:23:30,400 --> 00:23:33,400 Rennae Stubbs: I would have heard that. I just I want more men. 470 00:24:04,200 --> 00:24:06,199 Caitlin Thompson: I want to see more dudes in the stands. And 471 00:24:06,240 --> 00:24:08,119 Caitlin Thompson: what are they what's their fit for the day, what 472 00:24:08,119 --> 00:24:09,360 Caitlin Thompson: are they wearing, what's their look? 473 00:24:09,880 --> 00:24:12,160 Rennae Stubbs: Yeah, you're not going to see that, you know, gonna 474 00:24:12,160 --> 00:24:16,280 Rennae Stubbs: see Jessie Pegula's husband getting dressed up. That's a great idea. 475 00:24:16,400 --> 00:24:18,320 Caitlin Thompson: Jessica Pegula, if you're listening to this, I want to 476 00:24:18,320 --> 00:24:19,760 Caitlin Thompson: see Taylor what is he wearing? 477 00:24:19,800 --> 00:24:23,040 Rennae Stubbs: It's not happening. I mean maybe probably some Gap pants. 478 00:24:23,040 --> 00:24:26,480 Caitlin Thompson: He's probably wearing some golf pants and a sweatproof shirt. 479 00:24:26,520 --> 00:24:28,640 Caitlin Thompson: But I'm saying, if we call him out, then maybe 480 00:24:28,640 --> 00:24:29,800 Caitlin Thompson: he can step it up. 481 00:24:30,440 --> 00:24:33,879 Rennae Stubbs: Taylor, that's ever gonna happen. Taylor. No, Taylor, please Taylor, 482 00:24:34,119 --> 00:24:34,719 Rennae Stubbs: just be yourself. 483 00:24:34,720 --> 00:24:36,440 Caitlin Thompson: I think it's a great idea. No, So, I think 484 00:24:36,680 --> 00:24:38,760 Caitlin Thompson: this is why not why not push for change? You're 485 00:24:38,760 --> 00:24:42,040 Caitlin Thompson: always the one telling me nothing everything is impossible. Remember 486 00:24:42,040 --> 00:24:44,320 Caitlin Thompson: when the French Open just decided to move to October 487 00:24:44,359 --> 00:24:47,280 Caitlin Thompson: and didn't consult with anybody. You like, we're living in 488 00:24:47,320 --> 00:24:47,640 Caitlin Thompson: the ages? 489 00:24:47,760 --> 00:24:50,560 Rennae Stubbs: Is it in the October anymore for one year? Because 490 00:24:50,560 --> 00:24:51,359 Rennae Stubbs: it was a pandemic? 491 00:24:51,520 --> 00:24:53,920 Caitlin Thompson: Listen, but I'm just saying nothing is nothing is real. 492 00:24:54,320 --> 00:24:56,720 Rennae Stubbs: You want Australia to move to South America. I get it. 493 00:24:56,840 --> 00:24:59,399 Rennae Stubbs: Let's like not get any of the more controversial with 494 00:24:59,440 --> 00:24:59,960 Rennae Stubbs: these takes. 495 00:25:00,720 --> 00:25:04,199 Caitlin Thompson: I don't think he's wanting to see more husbands and 496 00:25:04,280 --> 00:25:04,680 Caitlin Thompson: boyfriends is a controversial take. 497 00:25:04,720 --> 00:25:05,480 Rennae Stubbs: Okay, that's fine. 498 00:25:05,520 --> 00:25:08,000 Caitlin Thompson: Whatever on the sidelines is particularly controversial. I think a 499 00:25:08,000 --> 00:25:09,040 Caitlin Thompson: lot of listeners would agree with that. 500 00:25:09,119 --> 00:25:12,720 Rennae Stubbs: You can have whatever you want. Speaking of good looking men, 501 00:25:13,720 --> 00:25:15,640 Rennae Stubbs: now that you want more men, can we talk about 502 00:25:15,680 --> 00:25:17,679 Rennae Stubbs: Rublev and Marat Safin. 503 00:25:17,880 --> 00:25:22,439 Caitlin Thompson: Marat Safin largely widely considered to be the one of 504 00:25:22,480 --> 00:25:25,959 Caitlin Thompson: the best looking men who'd ever played tennis one Grand Slam. 505 00:25:26,600 --> 00:25:29,040 Caitlin Thompson: One story that Darren k Hill told on this podcast 506 00:25:29,160 --> 00:25:33,000 Caitlin Thompson: during the first season was that he turned down an 507 00:25:33,040 --> 00:25:36,560 Caitlin Thompson: opportunity to coach Merrett Saffin, instead choosing to coach under 508 00:25:36,560 --> 00:25:40,680 Caitlin Thompson: Agassi because DarrenCahill's wife was too enthusiastic about him taking 509 00:25:40,720 --> 00:25:41,960 Caitlin Thompson: the Marrat Safin coaching job. 510 00:25:41,800 --> 00:25:45,800 Rennae Stubbs: May I say, a much better financial decision because Marrett 511 00:25:46,000 --> 00:25:48,919 Rennae Stubbs: not really the guy that you're going to hope is 512 00:25:48,920 --> 00:25:50,320 Rennae Stubbs: going to turn up for the day. But I think 513 00:25:50,320 --> 00:25:53,280 Rennae Stubbs: this is kind of an interesting matchup because I think 514 00:25:53,320 --> 00:25:56,760 Rennae Stubbs: people that were nuts and crazy on tennis court, which 515 00:25:56,760 --> 00:26:01,480 Rennae Stubbs: Safin was, and I think they actually make great coaches. 516 00:26:01,520 --> 00:26:03,800 Rennae Stubbs: And I'll tell you why. I'd love to know. I 517 00:26:03,840 --> 00:26:05,320 Rennae Stubbs: think I was a little nuts on the court at 518 00:26:05,320 --> 00:26:08,520 Rennae Stubbs: times as well myself. And I think you just get 519 00:26:08,560 --> 00:26:11,520 Rennae Stubbs: it right. I think you get it, you understand what 520 00:26:11,640 --> 00:26:14,040 Rennae Stubbs: someone's going through. Now, if you're like a Chris Evertt, 521 00:26:14,040 --> 00:26:16,240 Rennae Stubbs: I think that Chris would have a hard time coaching 522 00:26:16,280 --> 00:26:17,840 Rennae Stubbs: somebody who's a little bit nuts because you'd be like, 523 00:26:17,840 --> 00:26:19,840 Rennae Stubbs: I don't understand how why you would act quick this yes, 524 00:26:20,119 --> 00:26:21,720 Rennae Stubbs: you know, or Steffie Graff would be like, what are 525 00:26:21,760 --> 00:26:25,240 Rennae Stubbs: you doing? Act look like an you know, Whereas somebody 526 00:26:25,240 --> 00:26:27,639 Rennae Stubbs: who can relate a little bit to the crazy and 527 00:26:27,720 --> 00:26:30,160 Rennae Stubbs: to the emotional ups and downs on the court actually 528 00:26:30,240 --> 00:26:32,479 Rennae Stubbs: does make a good coach because they understand and they 529 00:26:32,480 --> 00:26:35,720 Rennae Stubbs: feel for you. Like he can relate, he can relate 530 00:26:35,760 --> 00:26:38,360 Rennae Stubbs: to don't fuck this up. Yes, it's okay to get 531 00:26:38,440 --> 00:26:40,439 Rennae Stubbs: upset from time to time, but you're going to look 532 00:26:40,440 --> 00:26:42,399 Rennae Stubbs: back in ten years and like really regret this. And 533 00:26:42,520 --> 00:26:44,720 Rennae Stubbs: so it'll be interesting to see how Marat Safin can 534 00:26:44,960 --> 00:26:48,000 Rennae Stubbs: can sort of get into the head of rube Lev 535 00:26:48,040 --> 00:26:49,600 Rennae Stubbs: a little bit, Not that anyone wants to be in 536 00:26:49,680 --> 00:26:52,360 Rennae Stubbs: Rublev's head, but to be able to go, look, man, 537 00:26:52,480 --> 00:26:54,480 Rennae Stubbs: I get it. You want to smash a racket, you 538 00:26:54,520 --> 00:26:57,360 Rennae Stubbs: want to take someone's head off, you want to rip 539 00:26:57,400 --> 00:26:59,359 Rennae Stubbs: a ball out of the stadium. You want to get upset, 540 00:26:59,400 --> 00:27:02,600 Rennae Stubbs: but in the end, that's not going to help you. 541 00:27:03,040 --> 00:27:05,160 Rennae Stubbs: And work on it in practice, and work on sort 542 00:27:05,160 --> 00:27:07,520 Rennae Stubbs: of joking about it a little bit. And like, I 543 00:27:07,600 --> 00:27:09,800 Rennae Stubbs: just think being relatable is really important as a coach. 544 00:27:10,240 --> 00:27:12,480 Rennae Stubbs: I think that Marat Safin is that is going to 545 00:27:12,520 --> 00:27:13,160 Rennae Stubbs: be that for. 546 00:27:13,280 --> 00:27:15,840 Caitlin Thompson: I think I've convinced me that's a very good take, 547 00:27:15,880 --> 00:27:19,040 Caitlin Thompson: and I think you're right. They're definitely more able to 548 00:27:19,720 --> 00:27:21,720 Caitlin Thompson: relate and probably coach. 549 00:27:22,000 --> 00:27:22,920 Rennae Stubbs: I think time will tell. 550 00:27:23,480 --> 00:27:27,200 Caitlin Thompson: Let's talk about Coco, Let's talk about Cocoa Gauff. Yeah, 551 00:27:27,320 --> 00:27:29,520 Caitlin Thompson: the results haven't been happening on the court for her 552 00:27:29,760 --> 00:27:34,439 Caitlin Thompson: so far this year, but I love this move that 553 00:27:34,560 --> 00:27:38,960 Caitlin Thompson: she is starting her own agency backed by me that 554 00:27:39,080 --> 00:27:41,760 Caitlin Thompson: will sort of unify her brand deals, which by all 555 00:27:41,760 --> 00:27:44,919 Caitlin Thompson: accounts have been exemplary, especially what she's done with New 556 00:27:44,960 --> 00:27:48,320 Caitlin Thompson: Balance to offer a lower price shoe for people who 557 00:27:48,359 --> 00:27:50,560 Caitlin Thompson: maybe find the one hundred and thirty dollars price point 558 00:27:50,600 --> 00:27:55,480 Caitlin Thompson: a little inaccessible. Obviously, her off court activism and her 559 00:27:55,520 --> 00:27:59,600 Caitlin Thompson: playing all sort of into one unit that is going 560 00:27:59,640 --> 00:28:01,440 Caitlin Thompson: to be led by her. I think this is really cool. 561 00:28:01,760 --> 00:28:05,040 Caitlin Thompson: She was priorly with Team 8, which represented among others, 562 00:28:06,240 --> 00:28:08,960 Caitlin Thompson: Alex Zverev for a time, Gregor Dimitrov for a time. 563 00:28:09,640 --> 00:28:13,000 Caitlin Thompson: They're losing people left and right, obviously. Roger Federer was 564 00:28:13,080 --> 00:28:15,400 Caitlin Thompson: a founder of the agency along with his former WME 565 00:28:15,640 --> 00:28:18,800 Caitlin Thompson: agent Tony Godsick, who is also married to Mary Joe Fernandez, 566 00:28:19,119 --> 00:28:23,080 Caitlin Thompson: So you know, there's a good reason to think that 567 00:28:23,240 --> 00:28:27,040 Caitlin Thompson: Roger Federer will forever be involved in that agency. That said, 568 00:28:27,400 --> 00:28:29,760 Caitlin Thompson: I don't know that they represent anybody at the moment 569 00:28:29,840 --> 00:28:32,280 Caitlin Thompson: of note, because losing Coco is a pretty big deal. 570 00:28:32,400 --> 00:28:34,240 Rennae Stubbs: Yeah, it is a big deal, and you sort of 571 00:28:34,320 --> 00:28:36,680 Rennae Stubbs: wonder how and how it came about in a lot 572 00:28:36,680 --> 00:28:39,120 Rennae Stubbs: of ways, like what was his discussion had with Team 573 00:28:39,120 --> 00:28:44,160 Rennae Stubbs: eight that wasn't or more along the eyes, you wonder 574 00:28:44,200 --> 00:28:47,920 Rennae Stubbs: what the discussion was with WME that wasn't being a 575 00:28:48,040 --> 00:28:50,880 Rennae Stubbs: Team 8. Yeah, that to me is the one that's 576 00:28:50,960 --> 00:28:53,280 Rennae Stubbs: kind of interesting because you go up and you say 577 00:28:53,320 --> 00:28:54,520 Rennae Stubbs: I want to do this, and I want to do this, 578 00:28:54,560 --> 00:28:56,040 Rennae Stubbs: and I want to do this, and they go, well, 579 00:28:56,280 --> 00:28:57,280 Rennae Stubbs: that's not really our jam. 580 00:28:57,840 --> 00:28:59,800 Caitlin Thompson: I think, honestly, it might be something. I mean, now 581 00:28:59,800 --> 00:29:03,160 Caitlin Thompson: we're just totally speculating, but I do think that speculatoion, 582 00:29:03,200 --> 00:29:06,280 Caitlin Thompson: we love it. I do think that one of the 583 00:29:06,280 --> 00:29:12,000 Caitlin Thompson: things that makes Cocos so unique is her off court advocacy. 584 00:29:12,120 --> 00:29:16,240 Caitlin Thompson: She is reliably a citizen of the world and she's 585 00:29:16,280 --> 00:29:17,280 Caitlin Thompson: engaged politically. 586 00:29:17,360 --> 00:29:20,800 Rennae Stubbs: Do you think that has something to do with it? 587 00:29:20,880 --> 00:29:24,720 Caitlin Thompson: I do, and I actually think Roger Fededer is famously 588 00:29:24,840 --> 00:29:26,320 Caitlin Thompson: famously apolitical and of course, he's Swiss. 589 00:29:27,720 --> 00:29:29,800 Rennae Stubbs: He's Swiss—we said at the same time, but you know. 590 00:29:29,760 --> 00:29:33,360 Caitlin Thompson: He's famously apolitical at a time when I would argue 591 00:29:33,400 --> 00:29:38,200 Caitlin Thompson: sports could use some leadership. And you know, Tony Godsick, 592 00:29:38,200 --> 00:29:42,840 Caitlin Thompson: I don't want to paint paint a picture. I don't 593 00:29:42,880 --> 00:29:45,520 Caitlin Thompson: know his politics. Living in Ohio certainly is a choice, 594 00:29:46,400 --> 00:29:48,840 Caitlin Thompson: but yeah, I do wonder if that's just not the Team 8 595 00:29:48,920 --> 00:29:52,240 Caitlin Thompson: brand to get involved in the world and sort of 596 00:29:52,280 --> 00:29:54,200 Caitlin Thompson: see the larger conversation. 597 00:29:54,560 --> 00:29:57,680 Rennae Stubbs: Yeah, because you know, when you look, the problem is 598 00:29:57,720 --> 00:30:00,680 Rennae Stubbs: you can't compare anyone to Roger because Roger Federer is 599 00:30:00,800 --> 00:30:04,360 Rennae Stubbs: truly a worldwide brand. It is everybody knows him. You know. 600 00:30:04,680 --> 00:30:08,400 Rennae Stubbs: The collaboration with On has been incredibly successful, There's no 601 00:30:08,480 --> 00:30:13,080 Rennae Stubbs: question about that. I would argue that the collaboration with 602 00:30:14,240 --> 00:30:18,200 Rennae Stubbs: Uniqlo is not a great one. I don't see people 603 00:30:18,240 --> 00:30:22,520 Rennae Stubbs: going I'm running into you know, On, sorry, into into 604 00:30:23,400 --> 00:30:25,200 Rennae Stubbs: there and saying, yeah, I want those I want that 605 00:30:25,240 --> 00:30:28,491 Rennae Stubbs: shirt because Roger Federer was wearing it, or you know, 606 00:30:28,491 --> 00:30:31,320 Rennae Stubbs: Uniqlo is not is not really a brand that I 607 00:30:31,320 --> 00:30:34,320 Rennae Stubbs: see people running to because of Roger Federer. Roger Federer 608 00:30:34,400 --> 00:30:38,560 Rennae Stubbs: is upper class. He is Swiss, he is cleanly shaven, 609 00:30:38,920 --> 00:30:42,920 Rennae Stubbs: he has behaved his whole life. He's not that is 610 00:30:43,080 --> 00:30:46,520 Rennae Stubbs: On that makes sense, right, It's a Swiss company. It's 611 00:30:46,600 --> 00:30:49,440 Rennae Stubbs: it's it's very methodical in its way of it's bringing 612 00:30:49,440 --> 00:30:52,360 Rennae Stubbs: out even the growth of it has been very systematic, 613 00:30:52,560 --> 00:30:56,280 Rennae Stubbs: very very Swiss, I think Uniqlo is kind of 614 00:30:56,280 --> 00:30:58,560 Rennae Stubbs: like it's a cheap brand and it's a it's a 615 00:30:58,560 --> 00:31:00,400 Rennae Stubbs: great brand for people that want to buy t shirt 616 00:31:00,400 --> 00:31:03,000 Rennae Stubbs: that's fifteen dollars and not fifty five dollars, right, I. 617 00:31:02,880 --> 00:31:05,200 Caitlin Thompson: Think what's the what the difference is? And you know, 618 00:31:05,480 --> 00:31:08,880 Caitlin Thompson: Roger Federer has endorsed everything under the sun. 619 00:31:08,800 --> 00:31:12,560 Rennae Stubbs: You know what I mean, even he's he's endorsed chocolate. 620 00:31:12,640 --> 00:31:15,800 Caitlin Thompson: He's endorsed in espresso machines, which are not actually particularly fancy. 621 00:31:15,800 --> 00:31:18,360 Caitlin Thompson: If you're actually a little high end coffee drinker, you're 622 00:31:18,400 --> 00:31:21,320 Caitlin Thompson: buying a you know, three thousand dollars Italian espresso machine. 623 00:31:21,360 --> 00:31:23,320 Caitlin Thompson: But I think Roger Fededer has been a brand, he's 624 00:31:23,320 --> 00:31:25,920 Caitlin Thompson: been a product. Yes, he sells Barilla pasta, which is 625 00:31:25,920 --> 00:31:29,320 Caitlin Thompson: also not particularly high end. I think it's less about 626 00:31:30,000 --> 00:31:33,880 Caitlin Thompson: selling him and more he had stock in on he 627 00:31:34,040 --> 00:31:37,120 Caitlin Thompson: was incentivized to pump the stock. Yep, because it got 628 00:31:37,200 --> 00:31:41,440 Caitlin Thompson: all this investment from parties, a lot of venture capital 629 00:31:41,440 --> 00:31:44,040 Caitlin Thompson: and a lot of private equity, on has been able 630 00:31:44,080 --> 00:31:46,320 Caitlin Thompson: to buy their way into a good amount of prominence. 631 00:31:46,360 --> 00:31:49,280 Caitlin Thompson: And they've done it, as you said, systematically, and that 632 00:31:49,400 --> 00:31:51,680 Caitlin Thompson: said those and you're not ugly AF. 633 00:31:51,720 --> 00:31:54,640 Rennae Stubbs: You don't love the clothes, ugly AF. You don't love 634 00:31:54,680 --> 00:31:57,320 Rennae Stubbs: the clothes or the shoes. But from I have not 635 00:31:57,440 --> 00:32:01,480 Rennae Stubbs: worn the shoes, but from every that has won the shoes, 636 00:32:01,520 --> 00:32:03,920 Rennae Stubbs: they love the shoe. Sure, they love the shoe. So 637 00:32:04,080 --> 00:32:06,160 Rennae Stubbs: for like the suburban, Yeah, I can't poo poo on 638 00:32:06,160 --> 00:32:07,600 Rennae Stubbs: the shoe. And I don't have to say they have 639 00:32:07,680 --> 00:32:09,520 Rennae Stubbs: done a better job with the shoe, because they really have. 640 00:32:09,760 --> 00:32:11,600 Rennae Stubbs: They have broadened that that range. 641 00:32:11,680 --> 00:32:15,440 Caitlin Thompson: Doing a collab with Loewe for a six hundred dollars is 642 00:32:15,440 --> 00:32:18,120 Caitlin Thompson: bad bad move. No, My point is not that it's 643 00:32:18,120 --> 00:32:20,360 Caitlin Thompson: good or bad. My point is that it's AstroTurf and 644 00:32:20,360 --> 00:32:22,240 Caitlin Thompson: it's bought and paid for with a lot of money, 645 00:32:22,280 --> 00:32:26,160 Caitlin Thompson: which is what Roger Federer's brand is. In contrast, getting 646 00:32:26,160 --> 00:32:28,720 Caitlin Thompson: back to Coco, which is the more germane conversation is 647 00:32:28,720 --> 00:32:32,320 Caitlin Thompson: that Coco is about, in my view, authenticity, Yes, and 648 00:32:32,360 --> 00:32:35,080 Caitlin Thompson: I agree there's a there's some subtext there that you 649 00:32:35,080 --> 00:32:37,920 Caitlin Thompson: could potentially read in again total speculation, but I think 650 00:32:37,920 --> 00:32:41,240 Caitlin Thompson: the authenticity that that Coco sort of is looking to 651 00:32:41,320 --> 00:32:44,920 Caitlin Thompson: embrace is hopefully going to be now empowered by the 652 00:32:44,960 --> 00:32:47,720 Caitlin Thompson: agency that is powering her brand, because one thing we 653 00:32:47,800 --> 00:32:52,240 Caitlin Thompson: need more of in tennis is actual leadership, actual outspokenness, 654 00:32:52,560 --> 00:32:54,800 Caitlin Thompson: and the idea of you know, it's not just a 655 00:32:54,840 --> 00:32:56,960 Caitlin Thompson: place to park a lot of money, it is, in 656 00:32:56,960 --> 00:33:00,000 Caitlin Thompson: fact a vehicle for the better men of the world. 657 00:33:00,040 --> 00:33:02,520 Rennae Stubbs: World. It feels like she's trying to take ownership of 658 00:33:02,560 --> 00:33:05,200 Rennae Stubbs: her brand completely and sort of take it out of 659 00:33:05,200 --> 00:33:07,000 Rennae Stubbs: the hands of teammate and say, look, no, this is 660 00:33:07,040 --> 00:33:09,120 Rennae Stubbs: what I want, this is this is my thought process. 661 00:33:09,640 --> 00:33:12,520 Rennae Stubbs: And clearly they sat down with her and said, yep, yep, 662 00:33:12,600 --> 00:33:14,880 Rennae Stubbs: let's do it. Yep, yep, yep, We're on board with 663 00:33:14,920 --> 00:33:18,080 Rennae Stubbs: all of it. And look, Coco is arguably the biggest 664 00:33:18,200 --> 00:33:22,080 Rennae Stubbs: star in American sports. I mean when she won the 665 00:33:22,160 --> 00:33:24,280 Rennae Stubbs: US Open. I know this for fact. A couple of 666 00:33:24,360 --> 00:33:27,600 Rennae Stubbs: years ago, when ESPN Women's Summit was happening here in 667 00:33:27,640 --> 00:33:30,360 Rennae Stubbs: New York, they played a video, and you know, we're 668 00:33:30,360 --> 00:33:34,920 Rennae Stubbs: talking Mikaela Shiffrin to Katie Ladecki, to all the great American 669 00:33:34,960 --> 00:33:37,120 Rennae Stubbs: champions that have either won at the Olympics or had 670 00:33:37,160 --> 00:33:40,280 Rennae Stubbs: done something spectacular that year. And you know, everyone clapped 671 00:33:40,400 --> 00:33:43,600 Rennae Stubbs: when they announced Mikaela Shiffrin a big deal. She just broke the 672 00:33:43,760 --> 00:33:47,160 Rennae Stubbs: all time skiing World Cup record. Okay, clap yeah, and 673 00:33:47,240 --> 00:33:50,560 Rennae Stubbs: then another great clap yeah. And then they showed Coco 674 00:33:50,680 --> 00:33:54,360 Rennae Stubbs: winning the US Open, and the entire room went bonkers. Yeah, 675 00:33:54,720 --> 00:33:59,520 Rennae Stubbs: And that's when I went, oh, tennis transforms way more 676 00:33:59,600 --> 00:34:02,440 Rennae Stubbs: than I mean, it is massive compared to all these 677 00:34:02,480 --> 00:34:04,920 Rennae Stubbs: other sports that are a little bit more niche. Skiing 678 00:34:05,040 --> 00:34:06,760 Rennae Stubbs: is very niche, Swimming is very niche. 679 00:34:06,960 --> 00:34:09,920 Caitlin Thompson: But I think even you know, compared to soccer and 680 00:34:10,000 --> 00:34:12,960 Caitlin Thompson: basketball players. I mean, we'll see, like the WNBA obviously 681 00:34:13,080 --> 00:34:16,719 Caitlin Thompson: has now minted yeah, probably a dozen superstars yes, with 682 00:34:16,880 --> 00:34:17,600 Caitlin Thompson: more on the way. 683 00:34:17,719 --> 00:34:19,799 Rennae Stubbs: Yeah, there's no question about that. You know, we'll look 684 00:34:19,840 --> 00:34:24,880 Rennae Stubbs: at co co invested in the Unrivaled the event basketball 685 00:34:24,880 --> 00:34:27,800 Rennae Stubbs: event in Miami. So I think co coach is so 686 00:34:28,080 --> 00:34:31,879 Rennae Stubbs: big that her issue is going to be you gotta win, 687 00:34:32,000 --> 00:34:36,759 Rennae Stubbs: though at some point look at Naomi Osaka. She is 688 00:34:36,880 --> 00:34:40,200 Rennae Stubbs: being not dropped by Nike because she's clearly with Nike, 689 00:34:40,640 --> 00:34:42,799 Rennae Stubbs: but they are not pushing her stuff anymore. They are 690 00:34:42,880 --> 00:34:44,839 Rennae Stubbs: not you know, going out in the streets going yeah, 691 00:34:44,960 --> 00:34:46,120 Rennae Stubbs: Naomi Osaka. 692 00:34:45,800 --> 00:34:48,600 Rennae Stubbs: Is Let's also be honest. Most of it was hideous. 693 00:34:49,480 --> 00:34:53,000 Rennae Stubbs: Yes it was hideous, but that was That's what Naomi. 694 00:34:53,520 --> 00:34:55,440 Rennae Stubbs: That was her brand, that was Naomi's brand, that was 695 00:34:55,520 --> 00:34:57,920 Rennae Stubbs: Naomi's look. It was you know, that very sort of 696 00:34:58,280 --> 00:35:01,480 Rennae Stubbs: cultural feel blah blah blah. But the bottom line is 697 00:35:01,600 --> 00:35:03,320 Rennae Stubbs: Nike and not pushing that out there anymore. 698 00:35:03,480 --> 00:35:05,440 Caitlin Thompson: Right, Yeah, I mean I think I once had a 699 00:35:05,480 --> 00:35:08,080 Caitlin Thompson: conversation with her team and they tried to to tell me that she 700 00:35:08,160 --> 00:35:09,960 Caitlin Thompson: was bigger than Lebron James, and I was like, sorry, 701 00:35:10,040 --> 00:35:15,280 Caitlin Thompson: Lebron James, who's won a whole bunch. Talk about worldwide, 702 00:35:15,560 --> 00:35:18,960 Caitlin Thompson: like Lebron James is the greatest basketball player of several generations. 703 00:35:18,960 --> 00:35:20,359 Rennae Stubbs: I was going to say, don't say of all the time, 704 00:35:20,600 --> 00:35:21,040 Rennae Stubbs: I wouldn't. 705 00:35:21,080 --> 00:35:23,080 Caitlin Thompson: My wife would murder me. Yeah, she also agrees that 706 00:35:23,120 --> 00:35:26,080 Caitlin Thompson: Michael Jordan Michael Jordan, but but speaking over brand, do 707 00:35:26,120 --> 00:35:28,000 Caitlin Thompson: you have to be the greatest of your of your 708 00:35:28,040 --> 00:35:30,680 Caitlin Thompson: generation at least I think to sort of command. Yeah, 709 00:35:30,719 --> 00:35:32,279 Caitlin Thompson: you know, and I would, frankly, and this is a 710 00:35:32,320 --> 00:35:34,160 Caitlin Thompson: little bit of an off topic, but I would run. 711 00:35:34,200 --> 00:35:36,280 Caitlin Thompson: I would love to see a lot of these sporting 712 00:35:36,360 --> 00:35:42,279 Caitlin Thompson: brands actually make non signature clothing lines. Like, I don't 713 00:35:42,320 --> 00:35:44,960 Caitlin Thompson: know that it's a good business proposition to throw your 714 00:35:45,000 --> 00:35:47,160 Caitlin Thompson: weight behind a celebrity. 715 00:35:47,320 --> 00:35:50,279 Rennae Stubbs: Well, yeah, I mean, having said that, Caitlin, like Sabrina Ionescu, 716 00:35:50,400 --> 00:35:53,160 Rennae Stubbs: who is obviously one of the great women basketball players 717 00:35:53,160 --> 00:35:54,880 Rennae Stubbs: in the world, would you put her in the top five? No, 718 00:35:55,160 --> 00:35:57,560 Rennae Stubbs: I wouldn't. And I love Sabrina. She plays on my team, 719 00:35:57,600 --> 00:36:00,920 Rennae Stubbs: the Liberty. One of the pure shooters in the game, 720 00:36:01,000 --> 00:36:03,520 Rennae Stubbs: no question about that. There's not many that are better 721 00:36:03,560 --> 00:36:07,120 Rennae Stubbs: than her. But having said that, her shoe is the 722 00:36:08,000 --> 00:36:10,320 Rennae Stubbs: number two selling shoe in basketball. 723 00:36:09,880 --> 00:36:12,000 Caitlin Thompson: Which is cool, men and women, men and men on 724 00:36:12,080 --> 00:36:13,279 Caitlin Thompson: the in the W in the. 725 00:36:13,440 --> 00:36:15,960 Rennae Stubbs: NBA wear her shoe. Yeah that's how So they've done 726 00:36:15,960 --> 00:36:16,600 Rennae Stubbs: a great job at that. 727 00:36:16,600 --> 00:36:19,399 Caitlin Thompson: And I give a lot of Where's Coco Shoes? Yeah, 728 00:36:19,480 --> 00:36:21,560 Caitlin Thompson: I think you're but I'm talking about the clothing. I 729 00:36:21,640 --> 00:36:25,040 Caitlin Thompson: think let's take a step back on what clothing. I 730 00:36:25,120 --> 00:36:29,000 Caitlin Thompson: think the brands clothing for collaption. 731 00:36:29,120 --> 00:36:30,040 Rennae Stubbs: Yeah, yeah, celebrity. 732 00:36:30,040 --> 00:36:31,800 Caitlin Thompson: We saw this get out of hand with Virgil Abloh 733 00:36:31,880 --> 00:36:34,560 Caitlin Thompson: and Serena Williams in the later years. 734 00:36:34,680 --> 00:36:37,319 Rennae Stubbs: Yeah, but look at look at look at Naomi Sorry 735 00:36:37,400 --> 00:36:39,840 Rennae Stubbs: not that Naomi Coco. I mean, I think New Balance 736 00:36:39,920 --> 00:36:42,040 Rennae Stubbs: did such a good job of grabbing her. And I'll 737 00:36:42,040 --> 00:36:44,120 Rennae Stubbs: give teammate a lot of credit there. They saw the 738 00:36:44,200 --> 00:36:46,360 Rennae Stubbs: vision there that she could be one of one at 739 00:36:46,440 --> 00:36:49,520 Rennae Stubbs: New New Balance and they and they have, They've done it. 740 00:36:49,840 --> 00:36:51,840 Rennae Stubbs: They've done a really great job with that. And I 741 00:36:52,080 --> 00:36:55,759 Rennae Stubbs: am I thought, oh, when a Nike going to steal her? Like, 742 00:36:55,840 --> 00:36:57,640 Rennae Stubbs: at what point in Nike going to go we need this, 743 00:36:58,120 --> 00:37:00,399 Rennae Stubbs: we need this tennis player, we need this, this young 744 00:37:00,480 --> 00:37:05,160 Rennae Stubbs: woman on our staff. Considering Serena's retiring, all these great 745 00:37:05,239 --> 00:37:07,319 Rennae Stubbs: Nike Roger's. 746 00:37:07,000 --> 00:37:08,919 Caitlin Thompson: Got, it is sort of a miss that they don't 747 00:37:08,960 --> 00:37:11,080 Caitlin Thompson: have her. To be honest, yeah, I think I just 748 00:37:11,160 --> 00:37:12,959 Caitlin Thompson: all I'm calling for is not for them to stop 749 00:37:13,000 --> 00:37:17,200 Caitlin Thompson: signing really good athletes. Just please don't make really inaccessible 750 00:37:19,360 --> 00:37:24,279 Caitlin Thompson: one of like one outfit collaborations that then become unwearable 751 00:37:24,440 --> 00:37:25,200 Caitlin Thompson: by everyone else. 752 00:37:25,400 --> 00:37:27,000 Rennae Stubbs: Or if you're going to do it, make sure it's wearable. 753 00:37:28,160 --> 00:37:30,680 Rennae Stubbs: But going back to Coco, she has to keep winning though. 754 00:37:30,840 --> 00:37:33,279 Rennae Stubbs: That's an important part for her. 755 00:37:34,200 --> 00:37:37,120 Caitlin Thompson: Many other parting shots. As we wrapped this first season 756 00:37:38,000 --> 00:37:40,800 Caitlin Thompson: first episode of Click Word Season up, Ooh, I like this, 757 00:37:41,040 --> 00:37:41,840 Caitlin Thompson: me too. I like this. 758 00:37:42,200 --> 00:37:45,560 Rennae Stubbs: No Monte Carlo is going on right now? Man, man, 759 00:37:45,640 --> 00:37:47,239 Rennae Stubbs: oh man, I tell you, wouldn't it be nice? It 760 00:37:47,239 --> 00:37:48,719 Rennae Stubbs: would have been so nice to have a tournament for 761 00:37:48,760 --> 00:37:51,719 Rennae Stubbs: the women in Monte Carlo. Big news yesterday from Ben 762 00:37:51,760 --> 00:37:57,000 Rennae Stubbs: Navarro is that he is making the five hundred equivalent 763 00:37:57,120 --> 00:38:01,399 Rennae Stubbs: money wise to the men's this is in Charleston. Yes, look, 764 00:38:01,600 --> 00:38:06,560 Rennae Stubbs: Ben Navarro. Credit One is a tremendous sponsor of women's sports. 765 00:38:07,040 --> 00:38:08,719 Rennae Stubbs: So I think that has a lot to do with Ben. 766 00:38:08,960 --> 00:38:26,480 Rennae Stubbs: I think he's clearly with his daughter Emma. So you know, 767 00:38:26,600 --> 00:38:30,239 Rennae Stubbs: for me, thanks to people like Ben Navarro, we have 768 00:38:30,440 --> 00:38:33,440 Rennae Stubbs: opportunities to highlight more women's sports. And so I just 769 00:38:33,480 --> 00:38:35,520 Rennae Stubbs: got back from Tampa from the women's final four down there, 770 00:38:35,520 --> 00:38:37,880 Rennae Stubbs: which was a huge success. Oh my god, Tampa has 771 00:38:38,000 --> 00:38:39,800 Rennae Stubbs: changed so much, dude, in the last six years. I 772 00:38:39,800 --> 00:38:40,480 Rennae Stubbs: couldn't believe it. 773 00:38:40,640 --> 00:38:44,600 Caitlin Thompson: Yeah, Ben Navarro, I think obviously he now owns Cincinnati 774 00:38:44,760 --> 00:38:46,920 Caitlin Thompson: as well as Charleston. I would love to see him 775 00:38:47,200 --> 00:38:51,520 Caitlin Thompson: make the tournament in Cincinnati give equal pay to the 776 00:38:51,560 --> 00:38:53,080 Caitlin Thompson: men and the women, because that has been one of 777 00:38:53,120 --> 00:38:56,720 Caitlin Thompson: the laggards between the men and the women on one 778 00:38:56,719 --> 00:38:56,800 Caitlin Thompson: of pro tour's biggest stops. 779 00:38:56,800 --> 00:38:59,239 Rennae Stubbs: I'll be safe to say if anyone's going to make 780 00:38:59,280 --> 00:39:01,920 Rennae Stubbs: it happen, it'll be Ben because that's just I think 781 00:39:03,400 --> 00:39:05,400 Rennae Stubbs: the influence that he has clearly in the game of 782 00:39:05,480 --> 00:39:07,360 Rennae Stubbs: tennis at the moment and also with his own company 783 00:39:07,719 --> 00:39:10,200 Rennae Stubbs: to make it right. So we'll see that. Yes, the 784 00:39:10,280 --> 00:39:12,799 Rennae Stubbs: clay court season has begun. Hopefully the sun will come 785 00:39:12,840 --> 00:39:14,319 Rennae Stubbs: out in New York at some point and we can 786 00:39:14,360 --> 00:39:18,479 Rennae Stubbs: get to play outside on clay. But thanks for joining 787 00:39:18,520 --> 00:39:21,120 Rennae Stubbs: me today, Caitlin. We've got a lot to go. French 788 00:39:21,160 --> 00:39:24,040 Rennae Stubbs: Open is around the corner. We'll see what happens here 789 00:39:24,080 --> 00:39:26,480 Rennae Stubbs: in Monte Carlo. Petko has left her She's in Europe. 790 00:39:27,000 --> 00:39:27,799 Caitlin Thompson: Now. You don't blame her. 791 00:39:28,080 --> 00:39:30,399 Rennae Stubbs: I don't blame her. Yeah, but there again, Germany has 792 00:39:31,160 --> 00:39:32,560 Rennae Stubbs: some average weather. 793 00:39:33,040 --> 00:39:35,120 Caitlin Thompson: If I were an EU citizen, I would be parked 794 00:39:35,120 --> 00:39:36,760 Caitlin Thompson: at the Mediterranean right now playing tennis. 795 00:39:36,960 --> 00:39:39,480 Rennae Stubbs: Yeah, me too. All right, all right, guys joining us. 796 00:39:40,080 --> 00:39:41,719 Rennae Stubbs: We'll see you next week. Bye bye,