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Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuff to Blow your Mind, a production of iHeartRadio.

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Speaker 1: Hey you welcome to Weirdhouse Cinema. This is Rob Lamb

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Speaker 1: and this is Joe McCormack. And today we're going to

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Speaker 1: be covering a well known classic. We are finally getting

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Speaker 1: around to the nineteen eighty four fantasy film The Never

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Speaker 1: Ending Story, something that I know many people of my

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Speaker 1: generation grew up watching over and over on VHS tapes.

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Speaker 1: But Rob, I think, if I understand correctly, both the

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Speaker 1: movie and the book here are very dear to you. Yeah. Well,

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Speaker 1: I don't have as long a history with the book.

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Speaker 1: The book is one that I ended up purchasing at

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Speaker 1: some point it was on the shelf, and then I

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Speaker 1: finally got around took to reading it as well when

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Speaker 1: I got back into the film with my son a

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Speaker 1: few years back, and that I instantly it was one

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Speaker 1: of the situations you never know exactly what the source

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Speaker 1: material for something you hold dear is going to be like.

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Speaker 1: But I was really blown away by Michael Enda's novel

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Speaker 1: it in my experience, it delivered everything I wanted to

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Speaker 1: of the of The Never Ending Story as I knew it.

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Speaker 1: But then adding all of these other dimensions to it

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Speaker 1: and this, and of course an entire half a book

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Speaker 1: plus on top of what we see in the film,

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Speaker 1: which I haven't read the book, but from what I understand,

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Speaker 1: the other half of the book not featured in the

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Speaker 1: film goes in a much darker direction. Yeah, I think

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Speaker 1: that's that's fair to say. I've made the comparison before

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Speaker 1: to like Doone and Doom Messiah, where the first half

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Speaker 1: of the never Ending Story is basically done about a

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Speaker 1: hero's ascension, and then the second half the Doom Messiah

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Speaker 1: portion of the never Ending Story, it is kind of

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Speaker 1: about the complications that occur when one to achieves this power,

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Speaker 1: like what is that disrupt what new challengers are presented,

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Speaker 1: and so forth. So yeah, I've been wanting to cover

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Speaker 1: the never Ending Story on Weird House for a while.

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Speaker 1: You know, it certainly a mainstream film and one that

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Speaker 1: I think many listeners have already seen. So it's it's

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Speaker 1: weirdness doesn't emerge from its unfamiliarity. It's in many ways,

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Speaker 1: I think, a generation defining film. Like you said, it's

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Speaker 1: one of these films of the sort of the dark

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Speaker 1: fantasy films of the nineteen eighties, alongside the likes of

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Speaker 1: The Dark Crystal and so forth that made a huge

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Speaker 1: impact on a lot of young viewers. But I feel

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Speaker 1: like this one hits a little differently than just about

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Speaker 1: any other particular dark fantasy film of this time period

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Speaker 1: I can think of, like you know, The Dark Crystal,

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Speaker 1: Return to Oz. Yes, they all have these fantastic, rich worlds.

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Speaker 1: They all present often a young viewer with some dark

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Speaker 1: imagery or ideas, but there's nothing quite like nineteen eighty

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Speaker 1: four is the Never Ending Story. Well, one thing I

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Speaker 1: didn't realize until just this moment when you made the

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Speaker 1: comparison is the thematic overlap between The Never Ending Story

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Speaker 1: and Return to Oz, which are both essentially stories that

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Speaker 1: integrate a fantasy world with the day human environment in

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Speaker 1: the imagination of a child, and that human child character

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Speaker 1: is essentially being like there are there are adults around

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Speaker 1: that child trying to tell them not to have an

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Speaker 1: imagination anymore, and the child is rebelling by dreaming up

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Speaker 1: all of these fantastic places and creatures and adventures. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I mean the adults are also helping to foster a

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Speaker 1: traumatic world that is sending the young person even further

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Speaker 1: into the world of fantasy. So this one should be

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Speaker 1: a fun one to discuss here. I'll tell you when

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Speaker 1: I was trying to think of an elevator pitch, at first,

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Speaker 1: it was difficult because I mean, it's the never Ending Story.

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Speaker 1: It's like, all you have to say is that, and

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Speaker 1: I have this instant, crystallized idea of what it is.

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Speaker 1: But when I thought a little hard, I was like, oh,

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Speaker 1: yeah's essentially Ferris Bueler's day off, except for book nerds.

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Speaker 1: That's very good. And in fact, I was going to

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Speaker 1: get into this later in the discussion, but maybe it's

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Speaker 1: good to bring up right here at the top. When

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Speaker 1: I think back on my childhood feelings about The never

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Speaker 1: Ending Story, one way in which I think it is

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Speaker 1: distinct from a lot of these other fantasy films is

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Speaker 1: that in this movie, the things about it that stuck

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Speaker 1: with me the most were actually not the fantasy elements,

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Speaker 1: not the creatures within Fantasia, but like the scene where

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Speaker 1: and we'll describe the plot a more detail later, but

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Speaker 1: like the scene where the human child Bastion goes into

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Speaker 1: the bookshop and speaks with the man in the bookshop,

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Speaker 1: or the scenes where he has snuck away from school

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Speaker 1: and he or I guess he's still in the school building.

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Speaker 1: He's snuck away from class and he's just hiding out

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Speaker 1: reading a book by himself. Those scenes, when I was

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Speaker 1: a child, they had a really powerful sort of magic

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Speaker 1: about them, just like the excitement at the idea of

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Speaker 1: being alone, away from the scheduled existence of like school

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Speaker 1: life and activities and all the things adults are telling

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Speaker 1: you to do, and just getting to hide with a

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Speaker 1: book and read in these sort of dusty corners. It

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Speaker 1: was almost intoxicating. Oh, I absolutely agree. And yeah, these

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Speaker 1: scenes the bookshop and the school attic where Bastion holds

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Speaker 1: down and reads the never ending story. Yeah, both of

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Speaker 1: these sequences in the film I think are very true

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Speaker 1: to how they're presented in the book. And yeah, I

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Speaker 1: as a child and as an adult, there's something about that, Like, yeah,

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Speaker 1: just like hiding away and reading and then and eating

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Speaker 1: that sandwich, the scene where Bastian's like, yes, oh yeah,

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Speaker 1: I'm hungry. I'm going to get out my lunch from

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Speaker 1: today and eat it. Like I get a little snaky

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Speaker 1: every time I watch that sequence. So not so much

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Speaker 1: about the sandwich itself, but I thought of the comparison

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Speaker 1: of the reading scenes where he's hiding out with the

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Speaker 1: book are almost as like carnally appetizing as really good

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Speaker 1: food scenes in other movies, like you know, the cooking

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Speaker 1: scene and Good Fellas or something where you're like looking

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Speaker 1: at delicious foods and you're like, oh, I've got to

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Speaker 1: go eat now. This movie does that for hiding away

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Speaker 1: with the book. Yeah. The attic especially is great because

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Speaker 1: you look at the other environments that the real world

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Speaker 1: Bastion has to encounter like that we'll talk about them

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Speaker 1: in more death in a minute, but like the the

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Speaker 1: the kitchen of his house where he has sort of

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Speaker 1: breakfast with his dad, or certainly the school hallways, like

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Speaker 1: these are so dry and sterile and just um, you know,

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Speaker 1: and just devoid of joy. But here in the in

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Speaker 1: the Attic, we have this kind of like transitional realm,

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Speaker 1: this place where they've the the boring and like anti

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Speaker 1: creative forces of his life, where they set aside all

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Speaker 1: of these like remnants of imagination, and so you see

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Speaker 1: things like um, animal heads and what like knights, armor

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Speaker 1: and so forth in the background, like all these and

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Speaker 1: even just like suggestive shapes where it's like this is

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Speaker 1: like a lost temple of the imagination. Why are their

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Speaker 1: swords in the attic of the school? I don't know,

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Speaker 1: but yeah, it works absolutely because, yeah, there are other

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Speaker 1: aspects about that. As I rewatched it with my son,

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Speaker 1: which was very nice, and maybe he even brought it,

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Speaker 1: it's like, well, why why has no one noticed that

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Speaker 1: that bastion has not come home? Like it's night time out?

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Speaker 1: Is his dad really working that late? Well? Maybe, I mean, okay,

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Speaker 1: you kind of have to press that don't think about

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Speaker 1: that button, because otherwise it's like, oh, yeah, there's going

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Speaker 1: to be an emergency here. Everybody's like where has the

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Speaker 1: child gone? Yeah? All right, well, let's go ahead and

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Speaker 1: listen to the trailer audio for this film. What is

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Speaker 1: the secret of this enchanted book? What wonders I hidden

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Speaker 1: within its pages? What magical spell does it cast on

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Speaker 1: all who read it? What is the secret of the

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Speaker 1: never ending story? But that's impossible. You will enter a

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Speaker 1: world where a young boy's imagination becomes a vivid reality.

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Speaker 1: The world of betray You and our Tex, the Rockbiter

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Speaker 1: and a good and kind gnome, a world that is

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Speaker 1: vast and eternal, treadulous and dazzling, unforgettable and free, or

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Speaker 1: anyone who's ever made a wish, believed in a fantasy,

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Speaker 1: or had a dream. This is a never ending story,

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Speaker 1: all right. I think that captured some of the sweeping music,

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Speaker 1: some of the energy of the picture. Now, Robert, I

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Speaker 1: don't know if we ever discussed this before, but I

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Speaker 1: made a connection in my brain between your long running

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Speaker 1: relationship with this movie and the kind of music that

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Speaker 1: is featured in the soundtrack of this movie. I bet

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Speaker 1: we probably got some of it in the trailer there,

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Speaker 1: though I hadn't listened to the trailer ahead of time,

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Speaker 1: so I don't know. But is there a relationship between

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Speaker 1: the never ending story and electronic music scores in your mind? Oh? Yeah, yeah, definitely. Um,

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Speaker 1: And it's going to be fun when we get into

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Speaker 1: the the musicians responsible, because you've got a couple of

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Speaker 1: really big names here. You. I mean, you have Klaus Dollinger,

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Speaker 1: who is like a great German synth composer and saxophonist.

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Speaker 1: He's the guy who scored nineteen eighty onees Doss Boot

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Speaker 1: And then you also have Georgio Moroder adding these additional

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Speaker 1: synth tracks and also that really catchy theme music for

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Speaker 1: the US release of the film, and h yeah, especially Moroder.

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Speaker 1: Moroder is a huge name and electronic music and in

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Speaker 1: a talo disco. I mean, he's just he's a titan

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Speaker 1: of the sound. So yeah, well we'll get into him

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Speaker 1: in a bit, but yeah, it's you can't just take

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Speaker 1: Moroder out of like eighties films and expect anything to

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Speaker 1: sound the same. It's definitely a movie where like the

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Speaker 1: ideas of the book, the music, and also something very

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Speaker 1: distinctive about the visuals all come together. I think we've

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Speaker 1: talked before about sort of the sameness of the visual

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Speaker 1: flare of a lot of films, so certainly of the

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Speaker 1: of the modern period. You know how certain like monsters

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Speaker 1: will all sort of look the same, certain space suits

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Speaker 1: will sort of look the same, and nothing else really

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Speaker 1: quite looks like this movie. And part of it has

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Speaker 1: to do with the the artist that was involved in

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Speaker 1: designing these various creatures and scenes. That's a good point.

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Speaker 1: So I was going to raise this when when we

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Speaker 1: were talking about the plot, but actually we could address

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Speaker 1: it now, so uh yeah, I couldn't help but compare

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Speaker 1: this to a new fantasy film that I saw over

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Speaker 1: the past weekend. I went and saw The Dungeons and

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Speaker 1: Dragons movie, which I quite liked it was. I thought

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Speaker 1: it was it was funny, you know, tightly written, well structured,

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Speaker 1: plot zipped right along, had a really nice cast. So

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Speaker 1: basically thumbs up to all that. It was a grand

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Speaker 1: old time. But I do have to admit I was

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Speaker 1: not crazy about the way the movie looked. Not because

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Speaker 1: it looked bad. It didn't, you know, like there was

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Speaker 1: nothing ugly about it. It's not like Jason X or something,

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Speaker 1: but it just looked the same way most big budget,

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Speaker 1: mainstream genre movies I see these days look so like.

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Speaker 1: I feel like all the Marvel movies I've seen look

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Speaker 1: this way too. And I'm not I don't know. I'm

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Speaker 1: not involved in cinematography, so I don't know exactly what

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Speaker 1: this quality is. Maybe if you out there, listener, you

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Speaker 1: know more about cinematography, and I don't know how movies

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Speaker 1: are color graded and all that kind of stuff, like

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Speaker 1: could explain what this thing I'm talking about is. It's

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Speaker 1: this quality of big mainstream genre movies today, all looking

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Speaker 1: very smooth and digital somehow, like everything feels very evenly

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Speaker 1: well lit, and everything looks clean, and everything's just kind

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Speaker 1: of like sealed and seamed up and kind of paved

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Speaker 1: over with this digital sheen, like the whole movie has

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Speaker 1: been face tuned. You know those face tune apps like

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Speaker 1: people can use on I don't know. If they use one,

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Speaker 1: they get like a cat face or something. Well, no,

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Speaker 1: I don't mean fully like, I don't mean the ones

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Speaker 1: that like give you a cat face people. There's some

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Speaker 1: kind of apps people, I'm gonna sound really stupid people

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Speaker 1: who actually know what these things are. But basically, they're

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Speaker 1: these apps people use to make their faces look quote better.

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Speaker 1: I don't know if they actually end up looking better,

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Speaker 1: but like with the other you know, they'll run a

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Speaker 1: selfie through them and their face comes out just looking

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Speaker 1: like smoother and more sort of evenly lit and more.

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Speaker 1: I don't know, like it sort of takes out some

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Speaker 1: of the texture and the individuality of the image so

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Speaker 1: that they come out as a lie. Okay, that's fitting

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Speaker 1: for I don't really discussing later on Well, I don't know, so,

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Speaker 1: I mean, I don't want to sound overly harsh, because again,

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Speaker 1: I mean, I liked I liked the D and D movie.

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Speaker 1: I've enjoyed plenty of other movies that did look like this,

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Speaker 1: but I feel like the lack of visual distinctiveness does

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Speaker 1: kind of take away from my enjoyment. And I couldn't

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Speaker 1: help but keep making that mental comparison. When I was

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Speaker 1: rewatching The never Ending Story here and there are all

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Speaker 1: these scenes where, um, I don't know, like you there,

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Speaker 1: there's a lot of playing with light and shadow. You

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Speaker 1: can identify individual sources of light to the surfaces within

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Speaker 1: the sets and on the people feel like they have texture.

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Speaker 1: There would be bumps and wrinkles and things, and there's

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Speaker 1: a there's a feeling of dust and age and just

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Speaker 1: generally real life. And uh, the Never Ending Story has

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Speaker 1: that has that to the gills, you know, it's all

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Speaker 1: over the place, that that that sense of reality and

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Speaker 1: texture to it. And that's what I feel like he's

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Speaker 1: lacking in a lot of these big budget movies I

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Speaker 1: see today. I think it's a solid point. Um. I mean,

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Speaker 1: I agree to that. I saw the Dungeons and Dragons

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Speaker 1: movie and I loved it. I thought it was a

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Speaker 1: lot of fun. Um. But yeah, I would stop myself

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Speaker 1: from comparing it to films like this just because it

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Speaker 1: was just like, um, it's it's great if you compare

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Speaker 1: it to like all the other films that are coming

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Speaker 1: out these days. But um, yeah, like you said, the

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Speaker 1: light and the darkness, that the sense of like physical

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Speaker 1: reality that you find in a film like this, it's

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Speaker 1: it just doesn't compare. Yeah, I also didn't mean to

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Speaker 1: imply that in every other respect than the visual they

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Speaker 1: are similar, they're also different in other ways. Funds like

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Speaker 1: though recommend Dungeons seconds was a lot whatever whatever the

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Speaker 1: rest of the name of it is called to adventure.

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Speaker 1: I can't I can't remember the colon, but you know

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Speaker 1: what I'm talking about. Thieves, guilt, honor among thieves. That's it,

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Speaker 1: all right. Well, if you want to go watch an

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Speaker 1: ever ending story before proceeding with this episode, we'll lucky

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Speaker 1: for you. It's why available both physically and digitally, even

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Speaker 1: if I'm not sure it's actually streaming anywhere at the moment.

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Speaker 1: I think it was on a streaming service and then

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Speaker 1: it like cycled out of that streaming service, but it's

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Speaker 1: highly available. You should be able to find it wherever

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Speaker 1: you are going to get your physical or digital media.

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Speaker 1: All right, Well, let's get into the people behind it.

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Speaker 1: Let's start at the top with the director, who also

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Speaker 1: has a writing credit. It's Wolfgang Peterson, who lived nineteen

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Speaker 1: forty one through twenty twenty two German director who rose

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Speaker 1: to international acclaim with his third full length film, nineteen

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Speaker 1: eighty ones DOFs Boot. This is, of course, the German

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Speaker 1: submarine movie. This film, The Never Ending Story would be

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Speaker 1: his follow up film from nineteen eighty four, though in

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Speaker 1: nineteen eighty five he also directed Enemy Mine, which is

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Speaker 1: a science fiction film that I also quite like. I

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Speaker 1: wouldn't put it on the same level as this film

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Speaker 1: by any means. It also has, for my taste, the

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Speaker 1: best teaser trailer of all time, But don't watch the

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Speaker 1: full trailer for it, because it's also one of these

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Speaker 1: films where the full trailer for Enemy Mine ruins absolutely

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Speaker 1: everything that happens in the picture. Oh no, So anyway,

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Speaker 1: I like Enemy Mine, but critics and audiences at the

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Speaker 1: time apparently did not, and Peterson did not return to

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Speaker 1: filmmaking till nineteen ninety one with a psychological thriller title Chattered,

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Speaker 1: and then nineteen ninety three's In the Line of Fire,

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Speaker 1: which was a bit of a hit with everyone but

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Speaker 1: also certainly wasn't really weird. Wait a minute, in the

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Speaker 1: Line of Fires, that's the one where Clint Eastwood plays

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Speaker 1: a secret service agent who failed to save JFK's life.

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Speaker 1: And then am I getting this right? Yeah? And John

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Speaker 1: Malkovich is trying to kill the president. I think for

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Speaker 1: no like particular political reason. He just wants to. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: I saw it, but I don't remember much outside of that.

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Speaker 1: But the interesting thing about about Peterson's filmography is, yeah,

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Speaker 1: he hits, comes out strong with doubts boot he does

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Speaker 1: this pair of pictures, a fantasy film and a sci

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Speaker 1: fi picture, and then most of the rest of his homography,

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Speaker 1: the rest of his career, it's films kind of like

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Speaker 1: it's films like In the Line of Fire, which, again,

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Speaker 1: In the Line of Fire apparently did great business and

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Speaker 1: people liked it, critics liked it. But is this anybody's

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Speaker 1: favorite film? Does anyone consider nineteen ninety five's Outbreak Break

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Speaker 1: another Peterson film, or nineteen ninety seven's Air Force One

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Speaker 1: their favorite film? He did Get off My Plane. That's

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Speaker 1: the That's the Harrison Ford one, right, Harrison Ford is

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Speaker 1: the President one is another President movie. It's a Harrison Ford. Uh.

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Speaker 1: His Air Force One gets attacked by terrorists of some kinds,

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Speaker 1: Gary Oldman one of them. I think, Oh, that sounds

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Speaker 1: about right. Yeah. Yeah, but so Harrison Ford at one

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Speaker 1: point famously says, get off my plane. Yeah yeah. He

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Speaker 1: also did two thousands A Perfect Storm, which I also saw.

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Speaker 1: He also did a two thousand and six remake of

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Speaker 1: the Poseidon Adventure titled Poseidon. Oh, and he also did

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Speaker 1: the two thousand and four film Troy, which has I

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Speaker 1: think bread what as I say, no, Bradbitt playing Achilles.

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Speaker 1: Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, the Troy. Uh. I watched part

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Speaker 1: of that on television in Iceland. I think, yeah it.

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Speaker 1: I remember thinking it didn't look great. Um though, I

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Speaker 1: think it's one of those like two thousands movies that,

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Speaker 1: like the movie itself doesn't look that good, but it's

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Speaker 1: got a deep, great cast. I think it had maybe

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Speaker 1: Eric Bana as Um. Oh, what's his name, the the

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Speaker 1: the hero of Troy, of the other side, not the Greek.

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Speaker 1: So what's his name? Hector? That's it Hector. Yes, I

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Speaker 1: think it had Um, and it had Brian Cox maybe

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Speaker 1: as Agamemnon, and I don't know bunch other It has

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Speaker 1: a great cast, as our recall um seeing. I haven't

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Speaker 1: seen the film, but yeah, yeah, so I get the

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Speaker 1: impression that, like with Peterson again not to you know,

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Speaker 1: cast any doubt on his later career, because it sounds

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Speaker 1: like it it was tremendously successful. But it's like the

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Speaker 1: with enemy Mine and then never ending story. He's made

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Speaker 1: a film for Bastion and with the rest of his pictures,

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Speaker 1: he made films for Bastion's dad. You know. Yeah, these

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Speaker 1: are these are orange juice in an egg in the

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Speaker 1: Blender movies. Yeah. So, but anyway, anything away from him,

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Speaker 1: Like I said, I haven't seen dos boot in forever,

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Speaker 1: but I remember liking that one even as a younger

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Speaker 1: viewer of films. And we'll come back to that one

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Speaker 1: because the score on that one's also really good. All right, um,

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Speaker 1: one of the so again, Peterson also has writing credit

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Speaker 1: on this, but so does Hermann Weigel born nineteen fifty

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Speaker 1: German writer and producer on a number of mostly German

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Speaker 1: screenplays German language screenplays in his filmography. He was also

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Speaker 1: one of the associate producers on nineteen eighty six is

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Speaker 1: the Name of the Rows, and he's still active. But

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Speaker 1: as we mentioned, this is of course based on a book.

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Speaker 1: It's based on a book by German author Michael Enda

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Speaker 1: who lived nineteen twenty nine through nineteen ninety five, so

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Speaker 1: he's yeah, the true master of mind, I think, behind

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Speaker 1: this film, author of the book which came on seventy nine. Again,

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Speaker 1: this film is an adaptation of the first half or

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Speaker 1: so of the novel, and the remainder is equally great,

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Speaker 1: but kind of a different tale. You know. What happens

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Speaker 1: next is kind of about like what happens when the

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Speaker 1: dreamer is truly ascendant and the potential pitfalls of the fantastic,

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Speaker 1: but it's still great. Indo was a German author, the

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Speaker 1: son of a surrealist painter that was banned under the

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Speaker 1: Nazi regime. Perhaps like father, like son, because DA's writing

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Speaker 1: often features surreal and paradoxical elements. They are often a

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Speaker 1: lot of role mind twisters that he unleashes on you,

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Speaker 1: certainly in The Never Ending Story. His other novels include Momo,

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Speaker 1: which I'm currently reading with my son, and also a

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Speaker 1: book called Jim Button and Luke the Engine Driver, which

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Speaker 1: I don't know anything about, but yeah, he has a

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Speaker 1: definitely has a following outside of this film, especially in Germany.

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Speaker 1: The book was tremendously popular in Germany and end of

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Speaker 1: famously Dislike this film adaptation, which I think is just

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Speaker 1: going to happen sometimes with adaptations, no matter what you know,

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Speaker 1: the creator, the author is so tied to it, it's

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Speaker 1: just not always going to see I I personally love

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Speaker 1: both the film and the novel. I think the film

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Speaker 1: does a fine job with the material, even if the

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Speaker 1: original book is ultimately more thought provoking and less diluted.

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Speaker 1: But it's still like nothing else, you know, Despite the

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Speaker 1: fact that I absolutely do love this movie even without

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Speaker 1: having read the book, I feel like I can detect

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Speaker 1: places in the script in the film where the story

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Speaker 1: is kind of patched together, kind of quickly duct taped

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Speaker 1: together to cover up some gaps, like I don't know

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Speaker 1: do do you know what I mean? Like there are

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Speaker 1: parts of it that just kind of feel like, Okay,

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Speaker 1: we maybe couldn't afford to do this shot or something,

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Speaker 1: so we had to like stitch these two parts together. Yeah. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: And certainly you can see that comparing the book to

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Speaker 1: the movie, like the whole encounters that are cut out,

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Speaker 1: and with a little luck dragon magic, you're able to

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00:22:05,800 --> 00:22:09,280
Speaker 1: sort of stitch everything back together again. Now, it's worth

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Speaker 1: noting that the Never Ending Stories spawned two sequels in

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Speaker 1: nineteen ninety and nineteen ninety four, as well as in

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Speaker 1: nineteen ninety five animated series and a two thousand and

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Speaker 1: one German language live action TV series. I can't speak

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Speaker 1: for the TV shows at all, but as far as

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Speaker 1: the sequels go, I did watch I think maybe half

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Speaker 1: of Part two finally, and it at least tries to

398
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Speaker 1: adapt some aspects of the second half of the book.

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Speaker 1: It stars Jonathan Brandis as Bastian. It has some cool

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Speaker 1: creatures in it, but it's just the same magic as

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Speaker 1: not there. And then Part three I've not seen at all,

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Speaker 1: but it looks kind of awful, even though it does

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Speaker 1: have a good cast. It's got jack Billhack in it.

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Speaker 1: It's got Freddie Jones and Julie Cox in it, and

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Speaker 1: Jason James Richter of the Free Willie franchise plays Bastion.

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Speaker 1: Does it have an Orca? No, no Orca, just luck dragons?

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Speaker 1: Then I'm out all right. Getting into the cast of

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Speaker 1: this movie. First of all, playing Bastian Bastian Balthazar Bucks,

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Speaker 1: his full name in the novel is Barrett Oliver born

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Speaker 1: nineteen seventy three, former child actor of the nineteen eighties

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Speaker 1: who really lit it up for a short while there.

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Speaker 1: This was his first film role, followed by the nineteen

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Speaker 1: eighty four Tim Burton short Frank and Weeney, which is

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Speaker 1: really good. Nineteen eighty five's Darryll. That's d A R

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Speaker 1: Y L like it stands for something, but I don't

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Speaker 1: think I ever saw it. It's about a robot or

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Speaker 1: a computer. I'm guessing you don't know what Darrell stands

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Speaker 1: for now. It's due all robots yotel loudly. Oh okay,

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Speaker 1: Well that it makes sense. I get it confused with

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Speaker 1: war games, I think anyway. Also, he was in nineteen

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Speaker 1: eighty five Cocoon, and I also find it amusing that

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Speaker 1: in nineteen eighty four he appeared both in an episode

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Speaker 1: of Highway to Heaven and the TV movie Invitation to Hell.

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Speaker 1: Now wait a minute, before he started in Darryl, didn't

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Speaker 1: He also star in larry and then another movie named Darryl.

426
00:24:06,880 --> 00:24:11,879
Speaker 1: No No, No, No No. He came back for nineteen

427
00:24:11,920 --> 00:24:15,359
Speaker 1: and eighty eight's Cocoon. The return in his last film

428
00:24:15,359 --> 00:24:18,280
Speaker 1: credit was nineteen eighty nine Scenes from the Class Struggle

429
00:24:18,280 --> 00:24:21,160
Speaker 1: in Beverly Hills. He went on to become a photographer

430
00:24:21,160 --> 00:24:24,240
Speaker 1: in his adult life. But that's just one of the

431
00:24:24,320 --> 00:24:27,880
Speaker 1: major child actors in this film, because Baston, of course

432
00:24:27,960 --> 00:24:30,000
Speaker 1: is their character in the real world, but in the

433
00:24:30,040 --> 00:24:32,320
Speaker 1: realm of Fantasia, we were following the adventure of a

434
00:24:32,400 --> 00:24:35,520
Speaker 1: Treyo who was played by Noah Hathaway. I don't know

435
00:24:35,560 --> 00:24:38,240
Speaker 1: why I thought this, because they don't even look that similar.

436
00:24:38,280 --> 00:24:40,199
Speaker 1: But I think when I saw this was when I

437
00:24:40,240 --> 00:24:42,800
Speaker 1: was a kid, I thought these. I thought it was

438
00:24:42,840 --> 00:24:45,960
Speaker 1: the same actor playing both roles. I might have assumed

439
00:24:46,000 --> 00:24:48,840
Speaker 1: the same thing. Yeah, I didn't. When you see a

440
00:24:48,880 --> 00:24:50,800
Speaker 1: movie like this young enough, you don't really you know

441
00:24:50,880 --> 00:24:53,760
Speaker 1: you're not gonna pay out IMDb and started figuring out

442
00:24:53,800 --> 00:24:57,560
Speaker 1: who's playing who. But anyway, Yeah. Hathaway was another major

443
00:24:57,600 --> 00:25:00,199
Speaker 1: eighties child actor. He started off as Boxy on the

444
00:25:00,200 --> 00:25:04,440
Speaker 1: original Battlestar Galactica series and did various TV roles until

445
00:25:04,520 --> 00:25:07,679
Speaker 1: nineteen eighty four, when he started both this and also

446
00:25:08,040 --> 00:25:11,280
Speaker 1: was in the nineteen eighty four Saul Bass short film Quest,

447
00:25:11,760 --> 00:25:14,159
Speaker 1: which I think will cover the next time we do

448
00:25:14,200 --> 00:25:16,960
Speaker 1: a short film episode of Weird House Cinema. Oh Boy,

449
00:25:17,520 --> 00:25:21,560
Speaker 1: Saul Bass, director of I was about to say them,

450
00:25:21,560 --> 00:25:25,159
Speaker 1: not them Phase four. Yeah, the other Ant movie, the

451
00:25:25,200 --> 00:25:29,199
Speaker 1: Ant movie we've done. Yes, now as far as Hathaway goes.

452
00:25:29,240 --> 00:25:32,200
Speaker 1: In nineteen eighty six, he played, of course, Harry Potter

453
00:25:32,280 --> 00:25:35,400
Speaker 1: Junior in Troll which we may have to come back

454
00:25:35,440 --> 00:25:38,040
Speaker 1: to that one as well. We've seen its unofficial sequel,

455
00:25:38,119 --> 00:25:41,920
Speaker 1: Troll Too, which does not have Harry Potter Junior. A

456
00:25:42,040 --> 00:25:45,040
Speaker 1: Troll Too is of course a a B movie classic.

457
00:25:45,640 --> 00:25:47,639
Speaker 1: I remember the last time I tried to watch the

458
00:25:47,640 --> 00:25:51,679
Speaker 1: original Troll it was it took some effort getting to

459
00:25:51,720 --> 00:25:54,320
Speaker 1: the end. Oh yeah, yeah, I've never seen it. It

460
00:25:54,320 --> 00:25:58,560
Speaker 1: has a great cast. Okay, what Julia Louis Dreyfuss is

461
00:25:58,560 --> 00:26:03,600
Speaker 1: in it? I guess so, yeah, yeah, anyway, I need

462
00:26:03,600 --> 00:26:05,720
Speaker 1: to see it at some point. At any rate. After

463
00:26:05,800 --> 00:26:08,520
Speaker 1: nineteen eighty six, Hathaway didn't act again till ninety four,

464
00:26:08,840 --> 00:26:11,280
Speaker 1: and then again it was like the twenty teens before

465
00:26:11,280 --> 00:26:14,360
Speaker 1: he acted again. Has stated that most of his dialogue

466
00:26:14,359 --> 00:26:17,040
Speaker 1: in this film is dubbed. Now, I should also added

467
00:26:17,119 --> 00:26:20,280
Speaker 1: in the book ATREYU has green skin, and I think

468
00:26:20,280 --> 00:26:22,840
Speaker 1: I've read that they did some test shoots with Hathaway

469
00:26:22,960 --> 00:26:25,720
Speaker 1: in green body paint and then decided it didn't look right.

470
00:26:25,840 --> 00:26:27,600
Speaker 1: I read that too. I read that he compared it

471
00:26:27,600 --> 00:26:29,240
Speaker 1: to he ended up he said he ended up looking

472
00:26:29,280 --> 00:26:33,760
Speaker 1: like a fun guy. All right. Another character we have

473
00:26:33,800 --> 00:26:38,280
Speaker 1: as the bookstore owner Carl Conrad Coriander, played by Thomas Hill,

474
00:26:38,320 --> 00:26:40,640
Speaker 1: who lived nineteen twenty seven three two thousand and nine.

475
00:26:41,720 --> 00:26:43,719
Speaker 1: This is probably his best remembered role, but he had

476
00:26:43,720 --> 00:26:46,680
Speaker 1: a long running recurring role on TV's New Heart, which

477
00:26:46,680 --> 00:26:50,119
Speaker 1: he just referenced earlier. He also pops up in nineteen

478
00:26:50,160 --> 00:26:53,399
Speaker 1: eighty four's v The Final Battle, And I had no

479
00:26:53,480 --> 00:26:55,920
Speaker 1: idea this existed, but I read that he voiced Uncle

480
00:26:56,000 --> 00:26:59,800
Speaker 1: Ben in the nineteen eighty one radio drama of Star Wars,

481
00:27:00,520 --> 00:27:04,000
Speaker 1: which features Mark Hamill as Luke. Anthony Daniels is C

482
00:27:04,160 --> 00:27:06,200
Speaker 1: three po but then like they didn't have some of

483
00:27:06,200 --> 00:27:08,240
Speaker 1: the other ant like someone else is doing Han solo.

484
00:27:08,600 --> 00:27:11,040
Speaker 1: Brock Peters is doing the voice of Darth Vader, so

485
00:27:11,840 --> 00:27:15,479
Speaker 1: sounds interesting. Hill was also in the supporting cast of

486
00:27:15,520 --> 00:27:19,120
Speaker 1: the Clint Eastwood jet movie Firefox from nineteen eighty two.

487
00:27:19,359 --> 00:27:22,680
Speaker 1: Haven't Seen It? Is that about? Is that about helicopters?

488
00:27:22,840 --> 00:27:25,400
Speaker 1: Or it's about something that's kind of like an SR

489
00:27:25,440 --> 00:27:28,960
Speaker 1: seventy one Blackbird, like a big black jet that Eastwood

490
00:27:29,040 --> 00:27:31,240
Speaker 1: is flying. And I remember seeing the box art for it.

491
00:27:31,280 --> 00:27:33,320
Speaker 1: As a kid, and I was like, this movie looks

492
00:27:33,359 --> 00:27:37,560
Speaker 1: so cool. I absolutely must see this film. And I

493
00:27:37,600 --> 00:27:39,440
Speaker 1: can't remember I've ever did or not, because I don't

494
00:27:39,440 --> 00:27:44,160
Speaker 1: think it quite fulfills that promise to youth. It reminds

495
00:27:44,200 --> 00:27:47,080
Speaker 1: me of my relationship to a movie called Navy Seals,

496
00:27:47,200 --> 00:27:48,920
Speaker 1: so I was like, well, this is just it's called

497
00:27:49,000 --> 00:27:51,639
Speaker 1: Navy Seals. It's gotta be the coolest movie ever made.

498
00:27:51,800 --> 00:27:57,160
Speaker 1: It was not all right. We mentioned Bastion's father, who

499
00:27:57,600 --> 00:27:58,840
Speaker 1: is not in the film much at all, but I

500
00:27:58,880 --> 00:28:02,359
Speaker 1: guess kind of has. His character has important weight, and

501
00:28:02,520 --> 00:28:05,800
Speaker 1: this is played by Gerald McCraney, another notable TV actor.

502
00:28:05,960 --> 00:28:08,679
Speaker 1: His first film role was nineteen sixty nine's Night of

503
00:28:08,680 --> 00:28:12,520
Speaker 1: Bloody Horror, followed by Women of Bloody Terror, and in

504
00:28:12,600 --> 00:28:14,680
Speaker 1: nineteen seventy he had a role in an episode of

505
00:28:14,760 --> 00:28:17,200
Speaker 1: Night Gallery. So I had a pretty horror based beginning,

506
00:28:18,280 --> 00:28:20,960
Speaker 1: but then it's from there it goes into a lot

507
00:28:21,000 --> 00:28:24,560
Speaker 1: of increasingly successful TV work. He of course, was one

508
00:28:24,560 --> 00:28:27,560
Speaker 1: of the Simons on TV Simon and Simon in the eighties,

509
00:28:28,000 --> 00:28:29,800
Speaker 1: and he has at least one off roles in just

510
00:28:29,840 --> 00:28:31,760
Speaker 1: a ton of TV series all the way up through

511
00:28:31,800 --> 00:28:35,160
Speaker 1: recent shows like This Is US and NCIS Los Angeles.

512
00:28:35,600 --> 00:28:38,600
Speaker 1: I don't know why. Bastion's father kind of reminded me

513
00:28:38,720 --> 00:28:42,320
Speaker 1: of Louis del Grand, the guy who plays the you know,

514
00:28:42,360 --> 00:28:44,600
Speaker 1: the guy in Scanners. So it's like when he's leaving

515
00:28:44,600 --> 00:28:46,360
Speaker 1: for work that morning, he's leaving because he has to

516
00:28:46,400 --> 00:28:52,280
Speaker 1: go do a presentation in the auditorium at Conseack. Similar

517
00:28:52,320 --> 00:28:57,680
Speaker 1: look the mustache, the balding head, the never ending scan. Yeah,

518
00:28:57,720 --> 00:28:59,080
Speaker 1: all right, let's see who else do we have here.

519
00:28:59,120 --> 00:29:03,400
Speaker 1: We have Tammy's Stronach as the Childlike Empress for nineteen

520
00:29:03,520 --> 00:29:05,320
Speaker 1: seventy two. This was her first role in her most

521
00:29:05,400 --> 00:29:08,640
Speaker 1: notable one. I think she's been active in like documentaries

522
00:29:08,640 --> 00:29:11,160
Speaker 1: and so forth on The never Ending Story. And she

523
00:29:11,240 --> 00:29:13,200
Speaker 1: has a film coming up called Man in which that

524
00:29:13,240 --> 00:29:15,280
Speaker 1: she acts in and was also an epon looks like

525
00:29:15,280 --> 00:29:19,040
Speaker 1: as a good cast. We have a character in the

526
00:29:19,040 --> 00:29:23,800
Speaker 1: book called Kron and this character, I'm sorry, the character

527
00:29:23,800 --> 00:29:26,600
Speaker 1: in the book is a centaur. In the movie, he's

528
00:29:26,640 --> 00:29:28,640
Speaker 1: kind of a dude with like a super tall forehead,

529
00:29:28,960 --> 00:29:30,760
Speaker 1: like kind of a kind of a point on the

530
00:29:30,760 --> 00:29:33,960
Speaker 1: top of his head, and he's like speaking on behalf

531
00:29:34,000 --> 00:29:37,040
Speaker 1: of the childlike Empress. Yeah, I took him as kind

532
00:29:37,080 --> 00:29:40,040
Speaker 1: of I don't know, a lieutenant or like the steward

533
00:29:40,040 --> 00:29:42,880
Speaker 1: of Gondor. But for Fantasia, while the Empress is sick

534
00:29:43,000 --> 00:29:46,000
Speaker 1: and he's sort of watching over things, and he's the

535
00:29:46,000 --> 00:29:49,160
Speaker 1: one who explains to everyone. He's sort of like is

536
00:29:50,000 --> 00:29:53,520
Speaker 1: master exposition. He lays out the lore. Yeah, and and

537
00:29:53,640 --> 00:29:58,320
Speaker 1: clearly I think based on Kyron the centaur from Greek

538
00:29:58,360 --> 00:30:04,800
Speaker 1: mythology the teacher who what tad Achilles actually But yeah,

539
00:30:04,800 --> 00:30:06,320
Speaker 1: and he has a bigger role in the book, but

540
00:30:06,360 --> 00:30:09,920
Speaker 1: in this he's just has this one scene. But anyway,

541
00:30:09,960 --> 00:30:12,440
Speaker 1: Moses Gunn plays him in the movie. Solid character actor

542
00:30:12,520 --> 00:30:14,960
Speaker 1: appeared in such flicks as nineteen seventies, The Great White

543
00:30:14,960 --> 00:30:19,000
Speaker 1: Hope seventy one, Shaft seventy five, Rollerball nineteen eighties, The

544
00:30:19,080 --> 00:30:23,560
Speaker 1: Ninth Configuration, fire Starter in eighty four, Heartbreak Ridge in

545
00:30:23,640 --> 00:30:26,640
Speaker 1: eighty six, and on TV. He was very active and

546
00:30:26,800 --> 00:30:29,520
Speaker 1: has a great villainous role on a Tales from the

547
00:30:29,520 --> 00:30:33,200
Speaker 1: Crypt episode titled Fitting Punishment, in which he plays this

548
00:30:34,200 --> 00:30:37,200
Speaker 1: this mean funeral Home director. And I think we've mentioned

549
00:30:37,240 --> 00:30:39,200
Speaker 1: that episode before because it also has an actor by

550
00:30:39,200 --> 00:30:41,160
Speaker 1: the name of Teddy Wilson in it, who is in

551
00:30:41,240 --> 00:30:46,080
Speaker 1: Devil's Express. All right, so mostly human actors we've been

552
00:30:46,080 --> 00:30:48,280
Speaker 1: talking about here, but of course this also has some

553
00:30:48,360 --> 00:30:52,240
Speaker 1: voiceovers in it because you have multiple non human characters

554
00:30:52,280 --> 00:30:57,160
Speaker 1: that are portrayed via some fantastic puppetry and so forth,

555
00:30:57,720 --> 00:31:01,320
Speaker 1: and then includes the character rock Bye, the luck Dragon,

556
00:31:01,440 --> 00:31:06,120
Speaker 1: foul Core, the villainous Gomork. There's also a narrating there.

557
00:31:06,440 --> 00:31:09,480
Speaker 1: It's funny because they're like two different narration systems going

558
00:31:09,480 --> 00:31:12,480
Speaker 1: on in this movie. At one point Bastion is narrating,

559
00:31:12,600 --> 00:31:15,600
Speaker 1: and then later we just get some other dude narrating. Yeah,

560
00:31:15,640 --> 00:31:19,360
Speaker 1: that was a little confusing, but okay, So this does

561
00:31:19,480 --> 00:31:24,280
Speaker 1: confirm my suspicion just from listening that basically all or

562
00:31:24,360 --> 00:31:27,280
Speaker 1: maybe actually all of the voices were done by the

563
00:31:27,320 --> 00:31:32,120
Speaker 1: same person. Yes, yes, Alan Oppenheimer did the voices, and

564
00:31:32,160 --> 00:31:36,160
Speaker 1: I believe uncredited for all of these creatures. And this

565
00:31:36,200 --> 00:31:37,760
Speaker 1: is something that always floored me, and I think it

566
00:31:37,800 --> 00:31:39,880
Speaker 1: is perhaps just a snapshot of the time period and

567
00:31:39,920 --> 00:31:43,520
Speaker 1: how voice acting was approached, because obviously, if the Never

568
00:31:43,640 --> 00:31:46,160
Speaker 1: Ending Story was made today, and certainly if they end

569
00:31:46,280 --> 00:31:49,120
Speaker 1: up remaking it at some point, as they've been talking

570
00:31:49,120 --> 00:31:51,960
Speaker 1: about for a while, you'd have some big name actors

571
00:31:51,960 --> 00:31:54,440
Speaker 1: playing all of these characters, Like I can easily imagine

572
00:31:54,480 --> 00:31:58,520
Speaker 1: you got Liam Neeson playing foul Core. I'm gonna say

573
00:31:58,720 --> 00:32:03,320
Speaker 1: Werner Herzog as Mork. Maybe Dave Bautista as Rock Bitter,

574
00:32:03,560 --> 00:32:05,920
Speaker 1: you know the drill. Uh, you may be being a

575
00:32:05,960 --> 00:32:09,120
Speaker 1: little too optimistic. I think maybe it would be Chris

576
00:32:09,160 --> 00:32:15,160
Speaker 1: Pratt as Falk or Adam Sandler as Rock Bitter. Oh no, no, no, no, yeah,

577
00:32:15,400 --> 00:32:18,120
Speaker 1: surely not. I mean I'll credit to it to Sandler,

578
00:32:18,200 --> 00:32:20,960
Speaker 1: but um no, like I can't, I can't imagine it.

579
00:32:22,560 --> 00:32:24,320
Speaker 1: But at any rate, you mean you would have somebody

580
00:32:24,320 --> 00:32:26,840
Speaker 1: playing those voices. They would probably be someone with with

581
00:32:27,200 --> 00:32:31,560
Speaker 1: with outside star um a power. But yeah, in this

582
00:32:31,720 --> 00:32:34,239
Speaker 1: it's just veteran actor and voiceover actor. And I think

583
00:32:34,240 --> 00:32:36,840
Speaker 1: by certainly by this period, like almost entirely voice actor

584
00:32:37,280 --> 00:32:40,440
Speaker 1: um al Ellen Oppenheimer just voice doing all the voices.

585
00:32:40,520 --> 00:32:41,880
Speaker 1: You could just this is a time when you just

586
00:32:41,920 --> 00:32:43,360
Speaker 1: had one guy come in and you're like, hey, can

587
00:32:43,400 --> 00:32:45,360
Speaker 1: you do voices for I don't know, like a dog

588
00:32:45,400 --> 00:32:49,640
Speaker 1: like luck dragon, a giant rock creature, and some sort

589
00:32:49,640 --> 00:32:52,240
Speaker 1: of villainous werewolf, and also we might need some narration.

590
00:32:52,280 --> 00:32:53,680
Speaker 1: Can you jump in on that? Tune. He's like, yeah,

591
00:32:53,720 --> 00:32:55,640
Speaker 1: I can do that, no need to hire anyone else.

592
00:32:55,880 --> 00:32:59,200
Speaker 1: I am truly impressed by even though I did detect

593
00:32:59,400 --> 00:33:02,320
Speaker 1: that at least some of these voices were the same person.

594
00:33:02,400 --> 00:33:04,200
Speaker 1: I mean, he's got to do a lot of them,

595
00:33:04,280 --> 00:33:07,880
Speaker 1: So I'm impressed how many different voices he can do. Yeah,

596
00:33:07,880 --> 00:33:10,520
Speaker 1: and he looked at his credits and it's extensive. He

597
00:33:10,520 --> 00:33:13,440
Speaker 1: has three hundred and thirty five credits in IMDb, spanning

598
00:33:13,560 --> 00:33:16,560
Speaker 1: seven decades, all the way back to nineteen sixty three.

599
00:33:17,520 --> 00:33:21,680
Speaker 1: I mean, Oppenheimer was on a late series episode of

600
00:33:21,680 --> 00:33:25,880
Speaker 1: The Andy Griffith Show, for example, but then around nineteen

601
00:33:25,920 --> 00:33:28,360
Speaker 1: seventy three he starts doing voice roles and becomes a

602
00:33:28,400 --> 00:33:31,200
Speaker 1: major force there. Certainly a lot of it is that

603
00:33:31,280 --> 00:33:35,480
Speaker 1: kind of additional voices credit you see from older animated specials,

604
00:33:35,480 --> 00:33:37,200
Speaker 1: you know, where they just they just brought some people

605
00:33:37,200 --> 00:33:38,560
Speaker 1: and it had him do some voices. It might be

606
00:33:38,600 --> 00:33:42,280
Speaker 1: a minor voice, might be like the secondary character, but

607
00:33:42,360 --> 00:33:45,160
Speaker 1: they just get that additional voices credit. I don't know why,

608
00:33:45,160 --> 00:33:47,440
Speaker 1: but I always like to see an arc where somebody

609
00:33:48,080 --> 00:33:50,560
Speaker 1: goes from you know, doing in front of the camera

610
00:33:50,640 --> 00:33:54,000
Speaker 1: work to doing voice acting and then they really are

611
00:33:54,040 --> 00:33:56,560
Speaker 1: a hit as voice acting, you know, Mark Hamill kind

612
00:33:56,560 --> 00:33:59,280
Speaker 1: of arc Yeah, yeah, and uh yeah. I mean, this

613
00:33:59,280 --> 00:34:01,360
Speaker 1: guy's work has been great. Certainly, not gonna read through

614
00:34:01,400 --> 00:34:03,000
Speaker 1: everything that he was in. I'm I'm gonna read through

615
00:34:03,000 --> 00:34:04,840
Speaker 1: the list I put together from my notes here, But

616
00:34:05,200 --> 00:34:07,000
Speaker 1: one of the big ones is that he voiced both

617
00:34:07,080 --> 00:34:09,840
Speaker 1: Skeletor and Man at Arms. In the nineteen eighties, he

618
00:34:09,920 --> 00:34:11,799
Speaker 1: Man and The Masters of the Universe, as well as

619
00:34:11,920 --> 00:34:14,560
Speaker 1: very spin offs of that show. And then he pops

620
00:34:14,640 --> 00:34:17,440
Speaker 1: up in just about everything you know, various like an

621
00:34:17,480 --> 00:34:22,280
Speaker 1: episode of Batman, the animated series, Chippendale Rescue Rangers, Duck Tales,

622
00:34:23,239 --> 00:34:26,000
Speaker 1: video game voices for Stuff and the like, the Fallout

623
00:34:26,520 --> 00:34:31,000
Speaker 1: and Balder's Gate franchises, and more recently the Toy and

624
00:34:31,040 --> 00:34:34,719
Speaker 1: the Toy Story franchise he voiced Old Timer. So yeah,

625
00:34:34,760 --> 00:34:38,800
Speaker 1: he has done so much, big name in the voiceover

626
00:34:38,880 --> 00:34:42,880
Speaker 1: voice acting area. Now on the acting side of things

627
00:34:42,920 --> 00:34:44,719
Speaker 1: that I will mention briefly, he had a small part

628
00:34:44,760 --> 00:34:48,520
Speaker 1: as the Chief supervisor in nineteen seventy three's Westworld, and

629
00:34:48,680 --> 00:34:52,960
Speaker 1: he plays Duncan in a great essentially filmed stage adaptation

630
00:34:53,000 --> 00:34:56,480
Speaker 1: of Macbeth from nineteen eighty one that starred Jeremy Brett

631
00:34:56,520 --> 00:35:00,279
Speaker 1: as Macbeth and Piper Laurie as Lady Macbeth. Oh heard

632
00:35:00,280 --> 00:35:03,120
Speaker 1: of that. It's it's pretty. It's like I say, it's

633
00:35:03,160 --> 00:35:07,880
Speaker 1: not very cinematic. It's very much a film like stage performance.

634
00:35:07,960 --> 00:35:09,520
Speaker 1: But if you're at all, if you're like a kind

635
00:35:09,560 --> 00:35:12,400
Speaker 1: of a Macbeth completist, I guess, or you really like

636
00:35:12,480 --> 00:35:15,319
Speaker 1: any of these actors, it's gets worth checking out, all right.

637
00:35:16,200 --> 00:35:17,840
Speaker 1: He doesn't play much of a role in the picture,

638
00:35:17,840 --> 00:35:19,240
Speaker 1: but we have a character by the name of Teeny

639
00:35:19,280 --> 00:35:22,840
Speaker 1: Weeney who rides a racing snail. He's played by Deep

640
00:35:22,920 --> 00:35:26,600
Speaker 1: Roy born nineteen forty nine, a Kenyon, British actor who,

641
00:35:26,600 --> 00:35:29,200
Speaker 1: at four foot four, has been a go to actor

642
00:35:29,280 --> 00:35:33,960
Speaker 1: for creature performances and diminutive character performances for decades. He's

643
00:35:33,960 --> 00:35:38,040
Speaker 1: worked in Star Wars, Dark Crystal Flash, Gordon Gray Stroke,

644
00:35:38,440 --> 00:35:41,480
Speaker 1: The X Files, Planet to the Apes, Charlie and The

645
00:35:41,520 --> 00:35:44,480
Speaker 1: Chocolate Factory, Star Trek in More. He also pops up

646
00:35:44,600 --> 00:35:48,160
Speaker 1: very briefly in Return to oz Ah. Yes, there's another

647
00:35:48,239 --> 00:35:51,160
Speaker 1: character early on called night Hobb who's kind of this

648
00:35:51,600 --> 00:35:55,239
Speaker 1: bat writing goblin, who also doesn't have a tremendous role

649
00:35:55,280 --> 00:35:59,840
Speaker 1: in the in the plot, but who's played by Telo Bruckner,

650
00:36:00,200 --> 00:36:03,120
Speaker 1: who lived nineteen forty through twenty twenty, German actor who's

651
00:36:03,239 --> 00:36:06,239
Speaker 1: biggest splash. Certainly this was his biggest splash outside of

652
00:36:06,280 --> 00:36:09,720
Speaker 1: German film and television. But he has extensive German language credits.

653
00:36:09,719 --> 00:36:12,400
Speaker 1: So if if anyone out there has certainly more familiarity

654
00:36:12,400 --> 00:36:15,840
Speaker 1: with German language film and television than we do, maybe

655
00:36:15,840 --> 00:36:18,839
Speaker 1: you are more familiar with Kilo Pruckner's work. We also

656
00:36:18,880 --> 00:36:21,839
Speaker 1: have a couple of gnomes in the picture. We have

657
00:36:22,080 --> 00:36:25,759
Speaker 1: Ingi Wook, the gnome played by Cindy Sidney Bromley, who

658
00:36:25,760 --> 00:36:28,720
Speaker 1: lived nineteen o nine through nineteen eighty seven, British character

659
00:36:28,719 --> 00:36:32,120
Speaker 1: actor whose credits include nineteen sixty two's Night Creatures, nineteen

660
00:36:32,200 --> 00:36:36,240
Speaker 1: sixty seven's The Fearless Vampire Killers, The excellent nineteen seventy

661
00:36:36,239 --> 00:36:39,920
Speaker 1: one and very cinematic adaptation of Macbeth eighty ones, Dragon

662
00:36:40,000 --> 00:36:43,440
Speaker 1: Slayer nineteen eighty ones, An American Werewolf in London, and

663
00:36:43,600 --> 00:36:47,360
Speaker 1: eighty six is Pirates. Now Ingie Wook's wife is another

664
00:36:47,400 --> 00:36:51,800
Speaker 1: gnome named Urgel, played by Patricia Hayes, who lived nineteen

665
00:36:51,800 --> 00:36:54,520
Speaker 1: o nineteen nineteen ninety eight. Outside of this film. Her

666
00:36:54,520 --> 00:36:57,080
Speaker 1: other big role of this time period was the good

667
00:36:57,120 --> 00:37:01,640
Speaker 1: Witch Raziel from nineteen eighty eight Willow. She's she's the

668
00:37:01,680 --> 00:37:04,040
Speaker 1: good Witch. She has a memorable battle in the movie

669
00:37:04,400 --> 00:37:08,560
Speaker 1: against the bad Witch, Jean Marsh's Queen Bavmorda that is

670
00:37:08,600 --> 00:37:12,480
Speaker 1: just absolutely brutal. So I can't help but compare it

671
00:37:12,520 --> 00:37:16,120
Speaker 1: to the Gandolf Saramon Wizard duel from Peter Jackson's Lord

672
00:37:16,160 --> 00:37:18,879
Speaker 1: of the Rings, like that's it's a great sequence, but

673
00:37:18,960 --> 00:37:23,200
Speaker 1: it's very I don't know, it's it's it's um. I'm

674
00:37:23,239 --> 00:37:25,080
Speaker 1: not sure how to how to describe it here. It's um,

675
00:37:26,440 --> 00:37:30,520
Speaker 1: it's very clean, it's very honorable, Whereas the fight between

676
00:37:30,560 --> 00:37:34,440
Speaker 1: these two witches is just absolutely brutal and eye gouging

677
00:37:34,760 --> 00:37:39,320
Speaker 1: and they're just trying to absolutely murder each other. Uh So, yeah,

678
00:37:39,480 --> 00:37:42,759
Speaker 1: A Willow is not a film without its faults, but

679
00:37:43,000 --> 00:37:45,840
Speaker 1: that whole sequence is great. Okay, one more cast note

680
00:37:45,880 --> 00:37:47,800
Speaker 1: before we move on to a couple of other individuals.

681
00:37:47,800 --> 00:37:50,719
Speaker 1: But one of the three bullies in the film that

682
00:37:51,080 --> 00:37:53,759
Speaker 1: are after Bastion early in the picture and then get

683
00:37:53,760 --> 00:37:56,160
Speaker 1: their come up and slate in the picture is played

684
00:37:56,200 --> 00:37:59,840
Speaker 1: by Chris Eastman, who also played the Bully Belch in

685
00:38:00,120 --> 00:38:04,280
Speaker 1: nineteen ninety TV adaptation of Stephen King's It, which alone

686
00:38:04,320 --> 00:38:06,759
Speaker 1: is pretty interesting. Like this kid had the like the

687
00:38:06,800 --> 00:38:09,840
Speaker 1: bully market cornered for a short while while he was

688
00:38:09,880 --> 00:38:12,879
Speaker 1: acting as a as a youth. But then on top

689
00:38:12,920 --> 00:38:15,560
Speaker 1: of that, he's also, I believe, currently on the board

690
00:38:15,600 --> 00:38:19,760
Speaker 1: of the Canadian Anti Bullying campaign. I am someone, so

691
00:38:20,680 --> 00:38:22,799
Speaker 1: I don't know, like, how can it did? I don't

692
00:38:22,800 --> 00:38:25,000
Speaker 1: know the fullbackstory here, like if he felt like he

693
00:38:25,040 --> 00:38:27,759
Speaker 1: had to do this because he played two different cinematic

694
00:38:27,800 --> 00:38:31,359
Speaker 1: bullies or what the deal is. The guy who played

695
00:38:31,360 --> 00:38:35,279
Speaker 1: Scott Farcas is also on that all right. Earlier I

696
00:38:35,320 --> 00:38:38,080
Speaker 1: mentioned the visual style of the picture and how there's

697
00:38:38,120 --> 00:38:41,200
Speaker 1: something about this movie that stands out, you know, it

698
00:38:41,200 --> 00:38:44,520
Speaker 1: doesn't have that same it doesn't it doesn't resemble other pictures.

699
00:38:45,120 --> 00:38:49,200
Speaker 1: And the individual of note here is Count de Luis

700
00:38:49,239 --> 00:38:52,239
Speaker 1: de Rico, who was born nineteen forty six. He was

701
00:38:52,280 --> 00:38:56,880
Speaker 1: the conceptual artist, creature designer and scenery designer on the picture.

702
00:38:57,400 --> 00:39:01,440
Speaker 1: He is a German educated Italian artist and illustrator who's yeah,

703
00:39:01,440 --> 00:39:02,920
Speaker 1: I think his work is just really key to the

704
00:39:02,920 --> 00:39:07,120
Speaker 1: distinctive look of the never ending story outside of this movie.

705
00:39:07,160 --> 00:39:11,480
Speaker 1: He also worked. He has Skies and Clouds Artists credit

706
00:39:11,520 --> 00:39:14,319
Speaker 1: on nineteen eighties Flash Gordon, which I think totally makes

707
00:39:14,320 --> 00:39:17,560
Speaker 1: sense because both of these movies are full of swirling, psychedelic,

708
00:39:17,880 --> 00:39:22,520
Speaker 1: brightly colored clouds. His work is very surreal. He's an

709
00:39:22,600 --> 00:39:25,440
Speaker 1: artist and author of children's books as well, such as

710
00:39:25,760 --> 00:39:29,239
Speaker 1: nineteen seventy eight The Rainbow Goblins, and if you look

711
00:39:29,320 --> 00:39:32,000
Speaker 1: him up, you can find his website. His website features

712
00:39:32,080 --> 00:39:35,840
Speaker 1: various concepts he developed for The Never Ending Story, including

713
00:39:36,160 --> 00:39:40,879
Speaker 1: some concepts for a more humanoid werewolf style Gomork, which

714
00:39:40,920 --> 00:39:43,400
Speaker 1: I think is very interesting that I think he based

715
00:39:43,400 --> 00:39:45,719
Speaker 1: on a picture of himself, So it's always neat to

716
00:39:45,760 --> 00:39:48,879
Speaker 1: see those like these early mock ups of what things

717
00:39:48,960 --> 00:39:50,759
Speaker 1: might look up look like in a film and then

718
00:39:50,800 --> 00:39:53,759
Speaker 1: realize where they deviated and where things stayed the same.

719
00:39:54,520 --> 00:39:57,400
Speaker 1: You can see to his designs for the urn, the

720
00:39:57,480 --> 00:40:02,360
Speaker 1: amulet that the that the childlike Empress gives a Treyou

721
00:40:02,480 --> 00:40:05,160
Speaker 1: in the picture that is also the emblem on the

722
00:40:06,200 --> 00:40:09,320
Speaker 1: cover of The never Ending Story text. Oh yeah, these

723
00:40:09,400 --> 00:40:14,160
Speaker 1: illustrations are fantastic, and his Goamork, sort of his more

724
00:40:14,440 --> 00:40:19,759
Speaker 1: man Goamork, certainly looks much sadder than the than the

725
00:40:19,920 --> 00:40:23,960
Speaker 1: purely malicious wolf that's in the in the movie. Yeah. Yeah,

726
00:40:24,000 --> 00:40:26,640
Speaker 1: but it's especially interesting to keep in mind when we

727
00:40:26,680 --> 00:40:29,080
Speaker 1: come back around to like how the Gomork is depicted

728
00:40:29,840 --> 00:40:33,040
Speaker 1: and how the Comork describes itself in the movie versus

729
00:40:33,239 --> 00:40:37,040
Speaker 1: the book. All right, So moving on finally to the score.

730
00:40:37,600 --> 00:40:39,840
Speaker 1: So this is one of those situations where the score

731
00:40:40,400 --> 00:40:45,600
Speaker 1: was partially changed for audiences outside of in this case Germany.

732
00:40:45,920 --> 00:40:48,240
Speaker 1: So in the German cut of the film, the entire

733
00:40:48,280 --> 00:40:53,160
Speaker 1: score is Claus Dolinger, but for international audiences some tracks

734
00:40:53,239 --> 00:40:56,880
Speaker 1: by Georgio Moroder were added, along with the theme song,

735
00:40:57,080 --> 00:41:01,319
Speaker 1: which Moroder was behind. It reminds me a little bit

736
00:41:01,320 --> 00:41:03,560
Speaker 1: of the situation of the nineteen eighty five Legend, which

737
00:41:03,600 --> 00:41:06,120
Speaker 1: had a score by Jerry Goldsmith for the European release

738
00:41:06,320 --> 00:41:09,920
Speaker 1: and then Tangerine Dream for the American release. That always

739
00:41:09,920 --> 00:41:12,439
Speaker 1: puzzled me regarding Legend. With this film, I'd say there's

740
00:41:12,719 --> 00:41:15,360
Speaker 1: less of a like a sharp division between the scores,

741
00:41:15,400 --> 00:41:18,440
Speaker 1: Like both of them are very situated and based in

742
00:41:18,520 --> 00:41:23,040
Speaker 1: electronic sounds. So starting with Dallinger. Kaus Dallinger was born

743
00:41:23,040 --> 00:41:26,920
Speaker 1: in nineteen thirty six, Great German synth composer and saxophonist.

744
00:41:27,440 --> 00:41:30,279
Speaker 1: He composed the score for Peterson's nineteen eighty one U

745
00:41:30,320 --> 00:41:33,200
Speaker 1: Boat film Dos Boot, which is just a great synth

746
00:41:33,239 --> 00:41:35,160
Speaker 1: score on its own. I was re listening to some

747
00:41:35,239 --> 00:41:37,120
Speaker 1: of it. I haven't seen the movie in forever, but

748
00:41:37,480 --> 00:41:40,640
Speaker 1: it has a really killer lead melody that incidentally got

749
00:41:40,640 --> 00:41:43,120
Speaker 1: a techno remix in nineteen ninety two by the group

750
00:41:43,200 --> 00:41:46,399
Speaker 1: U ninety six, so we can look that up as well.

751
00:41:47,280 --> 00:41:50,000
Speaker 1: U Boat jams. Yeah. Yeah. His work on The Never

752
00:41:50,080 --> 00:41:53,480
Speaker 1: Ending Story is also great, with such tracks as Fantasia

753
00:41:53,840 --> 00:41:57,080
Speaker 1: and the Dad's like the mysterious intrigue of the book.

754
00:41:57,360 --> 00:42:00,759
Speaker 1: And then there's the track Bastion's Happy Flight, which just

755
00:42:00,840 --> 00:42:03,600
Speaker 1: giving the title that you know exactly what scenes I'm

756
00:42:03,640 --> 00:42:07,560
Speaker 1: talking about from the latter portion of the film that

757
00:42:07,680 --> 00:42:10,560
Speaker 1: give us that care free exhilaration. And then of course

758
00:42:10,600 --> 00:42:13,040
Speaker 1: we also have the Gomark music. Anytime the Gomork is

759
00:42:13,080 --> 00:42:16,800
Speaker 1: mentioned a reference, there's like really startling, scary music that

760
00:42:16,880 --> 00:42:20,600
Speaker 1: Dollinger was behind. But then we have Marouder born nineteen

761
00:42:20,719 --> 00:42:23,680
Speaker 1: fifty who did the synth editions and the theme song,

762
00:42:23,800 --> 00:42:28,600
Speaker 1: so he is the father of disco himself. Italian composer

763
00:42:28,680 --> 00:42:32,600
Speaker 1: Giorgio Moroder gives us the signature technopop tracks for the

764
00:42:32,680 --> 00:42:35,759
Speaker 1: US version, including the Swamps of Sadness track and the

765
00:42:35,800 --> 00:42:38,839
Speaker 1: Ivory Tower track. I mean, if you really get in deep,

766
00:42:38,880 --> 00:42:41,440
Speaker 1: you can definitely tell the difference between Moroder's work and

767
00:42:41,520 --> 00:42:45,359
Speaker 1: Dollinger's work. But I like all of it. He also

768
00:42:45,400 --> 00:42:47,399
Speaker 1: did synths on the theme song, and it was behind

769
00:42:47,440 --> 00:42:49,760
Speaker 1: the theme song The Never Ning Stories, sung by English

770
00:42:49,800 --> 00:42:54,320
Speaker 1: pop singer Limall born nineteen sixty eight, or perhaps Limall.

771
00:42:54,360 --> 00:42:59,000
Speaker 1: I'm not sure exactly how this particular artist, Moniker is pronounced.

772
00:42:59,200 --> 00:43:02,120
Speaker 1: I think it's an anagraham for the name Hamil, which

773
00:43:02,160 --> 00:43:06,360
Speaker 1: is the singer's actual name. Oh for real, Yeah, okay,

774
00:43:06,600 --> 00:43:09,200
Speaker 1: it's kind of like the Fantasia version version of his

775
00:43:09,320 --> 00:43:12,840
Speaker 1: name yea. And of course this this track was popular

776
00:43:12,840 --> 00:43:14,880
Speaker 1: again in recent years because they featured it prominently on

777
00:43:15,040 --> 00:43:18,359
Speaker 1: a season of Stranger Things. Oh, I guess I didn't

778
00:43:18,360 --> 00:43:21,520
Speaker 1: make it that far, I have to say, I don't.

779
00:43:22,200 --> 00:43:24,719
Speaker 1: I mean, you can't really take the theme song for

780
00:43:24,800 --> 00:43:26,879
Speaker 1: The Never Ning Story out of the situation. But it's

781
00:43:26,920 --> 00:43:30,480
Speaker 1: not my favorite thing that Marouder has been involved in.

782
00:43:31,200 --> 00:43:33,520
Speaker 1: I mean, it does say the name of the movie

783
00:43:33,560 --> 00:43:37,280
Speaker 1: a bunch of times and that's a good move. Yeah, yeah,

784
00:43:37,360 --> 00:43:40,320
Speaker 1: so yeah. Maroder is a legend, a true synth god,

785
00:43:40,880 --> 00:43:44,879
Speaker 1: italo disco mainstay. His nineteen seventy seven electro disco album

786
00:43:44,960 --> 00:43:48,040
Speaker 1: From Here to Eternity is pretty incredible and in film

787
00:43:48,080 --> 00:43:51,239
Speaker 1: and TV. His other notable works include he scored the

788
00:43:51,239 --> 00:43:54,719
Speaker 1: original Battlestar Galactica in the seventies. He scored nineteen eighty

789
00:43:54,760 --> 00:43:58,960
Speaker 1: three Scarface. In nineteen eighty four, he created a score

790
00:43:59,080 --> 00:44:03,399
Speaker 1: for nineteen twenty seven's Metropolis. Um, I think I've seen this.

791
00:44:04,000 --> 00:44:05,759
Speaker 1: I'd have to go back and look at it. He

792
00:44:05,840 --> 00:44:10,080
Speaker 1: scored nineteen seventy eight Midnight Express, eighties American Jiggalo eighty

793
00:44:10,080 --> 00:44:13,959
Speaker 1: twos Cat People. In eighty three, he scored the mega

794
00:44:14,040 --> 00:44:17,720
Speaker 1: hit Flash Dance, including writing the theme song Flash Dance

795
00:44:18,080 --> 00:44:20,640
Speaker 1: What a Feeling, which is just an all timer, Like,

796
00:44:20,719 --> 00:44:22,719
Speaker 1: you can't listen to this song and not get into

797
00:44:22,719 --> 00:44:26,759
Speaker 1: it as forgettable as as the movie. Maybe, uh, it's

798
00:44:26,760 --> 00:44:28,800
Speaker 1: a pretty great track. I don't think I know this

799
00:44:28,880 --> 00:44:38,360
Speaker 1: song what a Feeling? DA don't dadd Okay, maybe I

800
00:44:38,440 --> 00:44:42,000
Speaker 1: hold on, Okay, I'm looking it up. Oh, I absolutely

801
00:44:42,040 --> 00:44:43,920
Speaker 1: know this song. Okay, I just didn't know what it

802
00:44:43,960 --> 00:44:47,640
Speaker 1: was called or what it was from. Sorry, no, no no,

803
00:44:47,680 --> 00:44:49,600
Speaker 1: it's like like, like I say, it's not necessarily a

804
00:44:49,640 --> 00:44:51,279
Speaker 1: movie that you or I would have a lot of

805
00:44:51,280 --> 00:44:57,040
Speaker 1: feelings about, but the song what feelings? Yeah? Um. He

806
00:44:57,160 --> 00:45:00,960
Speaker 1: also scored nineteen eighty six is Top Gun Um, including

807
00:45:00,960 --> 00:45:05,000
Speaker 1: writing the theme song danger Zone sung by Kenny Loggins, Wow,

808
00:45:05,080 --> 00:45:08,880
Speaker 1: Highway to the Danger Zone. Yeah. And he also scored

809
00:45:08,960 --> 00:45:11,359
Speaker 1: over the Top from eighty seven, which I think that's

810
00:45:11,360 --> 00:45:13,239
Speaker 1: the arm wrestling film that I've never seen, but I

811
00:45:13,360 --> 00:45:17,880
Speaker 1: know some people find him using on some level Sylvester Stallone.

812
00:45:18,000 --> 00:45:21,360
Speaker 1: Is it? I think so? Yeah, Yeah, it's a Sylvester

813
00:45:21,360 --> 00:45:24,160
Speaker 1: Stallone arm wrestling picture. That one's kind of a bore

814
00:45:24,280 --> 00:45:26,240
Speaker 1: until you get to the scene where he arm wrestles

815
00:45:26,280 --> 00:45:29,160
Speaker 1: the Brundle Fly. That that's a real twist. I was

816
00:45:29,200 --> 00:45:31,400
Speaker 1: fixing to say. It's like I think of arm wrestling

817
00:45:31,400 --> 00:45:33,279
Speaker 1: in motion pictures, I'm gonna think of the fly or

818
00:45:33,320 --> 00:45:35,800
Speaker 1: I'm gonna think of what is it? Arms of Steel

819
00:45:36,520 --> 00:45:39,719
Speaker 1: had some hands hand Steel, Hands of Steel, Yeah, yeah,

820
00:45:39,800 --> 00:45:43,040
Speaker 1: they I wonder if the scene and Hands of Steel

821
00:45:43,160 --> 00:45:46,800
Speaker 1: was inspired by the Stallone movie might have been. Yeah,

822
00:45:46,920 --> 00:45:49,200
Speaker 1: so anyway that the music for this film is great,

823
00:45:50,239 --> 00:45:51,759
Speaker 1: you know, all in all this the score is just

824
00:45:51,800 --> 00:45:55,439
Speaker 1: an embarrassment of riches. I was talking with JJ prior

825
00:45:55,440 --> 00:45:57,240
Speaker 1: to coming in here. I've never actually seen the German

826
00:45:57,320 --> 00:46:01,160
Speaker 1: language cut of the film, and seem like the without

827
00:46:01,360 --> 00:46:03,440
Speaker 1: the Moroder additions to it, But that would be an

828
00:46:03,480 --> 00:46:07,439
Speaker 1: interesting exercise at some point. Yeah, unlike say the Jerry

829
00:46:07,480 --> 00:46:09,360
Speaker 1: Goldsmith kind of legend. I'm just not going to do it.

830
00:46:09,400 --> 00:46:12,160
Speaker 1: I'm sorry, I'm just tangerine dream all the way. Yeah,

831
00:46:12,239 --> 00:46:23,560
Speaker 1: I know your proclivities there. Okay, well wait, are we

832
00:46:23,880 --> 00:46:26,239
Speaker 1: going to the plot now? Yeah, let's jump in. Let's

833
00:46:26,239 --> 00:46:29,160
Speaker 1: crack up in the book. Okay. Well, so the movie

834
00:46:29,200 --> 00:46:32,160
Speaker 1: does start off, at least in the version I watched

835
00:46:32,520 --> 00:46:36,040
Speaker 1: to revisit it, with the title theme, the Moroder song,

836
00:46:36,160 --> 00:46:39,360
Speaker 1: with the with the you know, the never ending story

837
00:46:40,520 --> 00:46:44,520
Speaker 1: gets your blood pumping, ready, ready for an adventure. And

838
00:46:44,640 --> 00:46:47,920
Speaker 1: so our main character, Bastion, when we first meet him,

839
00:46:48,000 --> 00:46:51,160
Speaker 1: he wakes up from a nightmare. He's in bed, He's

840
00:46:51,160 --> 00:46:55,200
Speaker 1: obviously been having bad dreams, and he immediately finds comfort

841
00:46:55,320 --> 00:46:57,960
Speaker 1: in a book. So it's a good way to get

842
00:46:58,000 --> 00:47:00,200
Speaker 1: things started. We know, we know what he's all about

843
00:47:00,200 --> 00:47:04,280
Speaker 1: from frame one, that's right. The books. Books are his refuge,

844
00:47:04,680 --> 00:47:07,520
Speaker 1: books are his sacred space. And the next morning, Bastion

845
00:47:07,640 --> 00:47:10,000
Speaker 1: and his father are in the kitchen together. They're they're

846
00:47:10,000 --> 00:47:14,120
Speaker 1: having breakfast. We find out that Bastion's mother has died

847
00:47:14,320 --> 00:47:19,000
Speaker 1: and his father his father. Well, first of all, before

848
00:47:19,440 --> 00:47:22,400
Speaker 1: I sort of alluded to this earlier, but there's something

849
00:47:22,680 --> 00:47:26,480
Speaker 1: strange going on with Bastion's father's relationship with the blender,

850
00:47:26,600 --> 00:47:29,480
Speaker 1: in which he I think we see him pour orange

851
00:47:29,600 --> 00:47:32,720
Speaker 1: juice from a pitcher into the blender and then crack

852
00:47:32,760 --> 00:47:35,080
Speaker 1: a raw egg in there and then just blend and

853
00:47:35,200 --> 00:47:39,080
Speaker 1: drink it yep yep, drinks it down, gulps it down,

854
00:47:39,160 --> 00:47:41,920
Speaker 1: and then has like a one minute conversation with his

855
00:47:42,000 --> 00:47:44,359
Speaker 1: son about his disappointment in him, and then he's out

856
00:47:44,360 --> 00:47:47,000
Speaker 1: the door. It's like a Bastion is like not only

857
00:47:47,080 --> 00:47:49,080
Speaker 1: a latchkey kid. He has to like lock up and

858
00:47:49,160 --> 00:47:53,239
Speaker 1: leave for school in the morning. But yeah, my son

859
00:47:53,280 --> 00:47:55,120
Speaker 1: and I were commenting on this as we were rewatching

860
00:47:55,160 --> 00:47:57,839
Speaker 1: the film, you know, like, what a like, what kind

861
00:47:57,840 --> 00:47:59,360
Speaker 1: of a breakfast is this? I guess it's like a

862
00:47:59,360 --> 00:48:02,239
Speaker 1: true work best breakfast ride. I mean, he's such a

863
00:48:02,239 --> 00:48:04,600
Speaker 1: workaholic all he has time for is that ray egg

864
00:48:04,719 --> 00:48:06,600
Speaker 1: and that orange juice. Just gulp it down and go.

865
00:48:07,120 --> 00:48:10,920
Speaker 1: He needs to take a vacation to Hawaii and explore

866
00:48:10,920 --> 00:48:14,479
Speaker 1: his wolfie side. Now, you mentioned that the Bastian's mother

867
00:48:14,600 --> 00:48:17,160
Speaker 1: had died, and it isn't important to note she did

868
00:48:17,200 --> 00:48:20,160
Speaker 1: not just die. This scene would be very strange if

869
00:48:20,160 --> 00:48:22,240
Speaker 1: she had just passed away. But we get the impression

870
00:48:22,239 --> 00:48:25,440
Speaker 1: that it's it's been some time, like long enough that

871
00:48:25,520 --> 00:48:27,480
Speaker 1: Bastian's father is like, you need to get past this,

872
00:48:27,600 --> 00:48:28,839
Speaker 1: get on with it. You know, we got to move

873
00:48:28,880 --> 00:48:32,000
Speaker 1: on with life. And you know he's still still is

874
00:48:32,120 --> 00:48:34,760
Speaker 1: dealing with it to a large extent, and his father

875
00:48:35,040 --> 00:48:36,960
Speaker 1: is like, no, put it behind you. You need to

876
00:48:36,960 --> 00:48:40,080
Speaker 1: grow up and get with the program, right, And this

877
00:48:40,160 --> 00:48:42,960
Speaker 1: is reflectively, so he's like commenting on I think he

878
00:48:43,040 --> 00:48:45,640
Speaker 1: got a call from one of Bastian's teachers about how

879
00:48:46,000 --> 00:48:49,480
Speaker 1: he hasn't been doing his homework. Insteady, he's drawing horses

880
00:48:49,520 --> 00:48:53,320
Speaker 1: and his math book. And then Bastion's like, not horses, unicorns,

881
00:48:54,040 --> 00:48:56,319
Speaker 1: and then his dad's upset. He's like, hey, so you're

882
00:48:56,320 --> 00:48:58,480
Speaker 1: getting in trouble at school. You're not even trying out

883
00:48:58,480 --> 00:49:00,719
Speaker 1: for the swim team. You say you love horses, but

884
00:49:00,760 --> 00:49:02,759
Speaker 1: you're afraid to get on a real one. So why

885
00:49:02,800 --> 00:49:05,080
Speaker 1: don't you, you know, get your head out of the

886
00:49:05,080 --> 00:49:08,400
Speaker 1: clouds and put your feet on the ground. And so

887
00:49:08,480 --> 00:49:11,480
Speaker 1: this is all we see of Bastion's home life. But

888
00:49:11,560 --> 00:49:13,799
Speaker 1: it's it's it's well done, Like he gives us just

889
00:49:14,200 --> 00:49:16,440
Speaker 1: enough notes to sort of build things out with. And

890
00:49:16,560 --> 00:49:19,680
Speaker 1: Bastion's father is not portrayed as like mean or evil.

891
00:49:19,880 --> 00:49:22,879
Speaker 1: He is trying to be helpful. What this is what

892
00:49:22,920 --> 00:49:25,160
Speaker 1: he thinks being helpful is is like telling his son

893
00:49:25,280 --> 00:49:28,239
Speaker 1: he needs to like be realistic and stop daydreaming and

894
00:49:28,600 --> 00:49:31,080
Speaker 1: all that. Yeah, and like also clear, I mean, you

895
00:49:31,080 --> 00:49:34,080
Speaker 1: get the impression that he is also dealing with the

896
00:49:34,120 --> 00:49:37,840
Speaker 1: grief of this loss in a very particular way, and

897
00:49:38,600 --> 00:49:40,799
Speaker 1: on some other like thinks that well, Bastian should do

898
00:49:40,800 --> 00:49:42,719
Speaker 1: this too. This is what is sort of working for me.

899
00:49:42,960 --> 00:49:45,120
Speaker 1: If he would only just do the same thing, then

900
00:49:45,600 --> 00:49:48,560
Speaker 1: then he could move on as well. Anyway, Bastion is

901
00:49:48,600 --> 00:49:51,560
Speaker 1: on his way to school, but then he hits another obstacle.

902
00:49:52,440 --> 00:49:55,280
Speaker 1: Gang of bullies, three bullies that you get the feeling

903
00:49:55,320 --> 00:49:58,600
Speaker 1: that they mess with him all the time. They want

904
00:49:58,600 --> 00:50:00,680
Speaker 1: to rob him, they want his money and they end

905
00:50:00,760 --> 00:50:04,120
Speaker 1: up throwing him in a dumpster in an alley. Yeah yeah,

906
00:50:04,120 --> 00:50:06,399
Speaker 1: I hate these bullies there if they're the worst. He

907
00:50:06,400 --> 00:50:09,359
Speaker 1: climbs out of the dumpster and then they're not done

908
00:50:09,400 --> 00:50:11,360
Speaker 1: bullying him. They're like, hey, get back in there, and

909
00:50:11,440 --> 00:50:13,840
Speaker 1: so he runs away and they chase him and eventually

910
00:50:13,960 --> 00:50:17,359
Speaker 1: he ducks into an old bookshop to hide. And in

911
00:50:17,360 --> 00:50:20,200
Speaker 1: this scene, the old man who runs the bookshop this

912
00:50:20,320 --> 00:50:26,600
Speaker 1: is Coriander's. He's very curmudgeonly, but there's something exciting about

913
00:50:26,680 --> 00:50:31,240
Speaker 1: this space. It's full of stuff that seems old, seems

914
00:50:31,280 --> 00:50:34,560
Speaker 1: to contain secrets, and we know Bastion actually does love books,

915
00:50:34,560 --> 00:50:37,319
Speaker 1: and the man who runs the shop does not expect this.

916
00:50:37,360 --> 00:50:39,160
Speaker 1: As soon as the kid walks in, he looks at him.

917
00:50:39,200 --> 00:50:41,720
Speaker 1: He's like, oh, this is a kid. Sorry, the video

918
00:50:41,880 --> 00:50:44,520
Speaker 1: arcade is down the street, that's what you're looking for.

919
00:50:45,000 --> 00:50:47,000
Speaker 1: You can easily imagine a version of this where it's

920
00:50:47,000 --> 00:50:50,400
Speaker 1: the comic book guy from The Simpsons gatekeeping on poor Bastion,

921
00:50:50,880 --> 00:50:57,200
Speaker 1: worst generation ever. But yeah, so Bastion protests, He's like, no,

922
00:50:57,320 --> 00:50:59,319
Speaker 1: I like books. I like books, like though the one

923
00:50:59,360 --> 00:51:03,279
Speaker 1: you're reading out, But the old Man's like, no, not

924
00:51:03,320 --> 00:51:05,640
Speaker 1: like the one I'm reading now. All the books you like,

925
00:51:05,880 --> 00:51:09,319
Speaker 1: you you like Tarzan and Treasure Island and all that

926
00:51:09,400 --> 00:51:13,879
Speaker 1: those books are safe. This book not so much. Yeah,

927
00:51:13,880 --> 00:51:16,440
Speaker 1: and of course we'll learn why this book, the Never

928
00:51:16,520 --> 00:51:19,800
Speaker 1: Ending Story, is not safe, and certainly that's a book

929
00:51:20,040 --> 00:51:23,400
Speaker 1: a huge plot point in the film. But also I felt,

930
00:51:23,440 --> 00:51:25,200
Speaker 1: I feel like this kind of flows over into the

931
00:51:25,360 --> 00:51:28,000
Speaker 1: into the way I perceived this film as a young viewer,

932
00:51:28,080 --> 00:51:31,600
Speaker 1: that the film film itself was to some degree unsafe.

933
00:51:31,600 --> 00:51:33,759
Speaker 1: And granted, any film, if you're young enough and you

934
00:51:33,800 --> 00:51:36,600
Speaker 1: don't grasp the conventions of story and genre, any film

935
00:51:36,640 --> 00:51:38,600
Speaker 1: can feel unsafe because you don't know that like the

936
00:51:38,640 --> 00:51:41,360
Speaker 1: hero's supposed to win and so forth, or that certain

937
00:51:41,400 --> 00:51:43,960
Speaker 1: things are not going to happen in a PG rated

938
00:51:44,040 --> 00:51:47,480
Speaker 1: or G rated picture. But I felt like, even even

939
00:51:47,520 --> 00:51:49,360
Speaker 1: early on, I could tell that this film was somehow

940
00:51:49,440 --> 00:51:55,200
Speaker 1: buckling the against these restraints, you know that, and that

941
00:51:55,440 --> 00:51:58,240
Speaker 1: it wasn't a completely safe world that I was immersing

942
00:51:58,280 --> 00:52:00,720
Speaker 1: myself in. And for for goodness, say, I mean, there's

943
00:52:00,760 --> 00:52:03,640
Speaker 1: sphinx nipples in it. Later on, which also seemed to

944
00:52:03,680 --> 00:52:06,880
Speaker 1: contribute to this feeling. This scene in the bookshops setting

945
00:52:06,960 --> 00:52:09,520
Speaker 1: up the intrigue that will follow in the rest of

946
00:52:09,520 --> 00:52:12,120
Speaker 1: the plot. I think is very good and I would

947
00:52:12,120 --> 00:52:15,120
Speaker 1: place it in a league among the best scenes of

948
00:52:15,160 --> 00:52:18,360
Speaker 1: this type. Other examples would include the scene at the

949
00:52:18,360 --> 00:52:20,839
Speaker 1: beginning of Raiders of the Lost Arc where the men

950
00:52:20,960 --> 00:52:24,200
Speaker 1: from the government arrive and pull Jones out of class

951
00:52:24,239 --> 00:52:26,279
Speaker 1: to ask him about the arc and they have that

952
00:52:26,320 --> 00:52:29,080
Speaker 1: brief conversation. I know that that scene is often held

953
00:52:29,160 --> 00:52:32,759
Speaker 1: up is like a really great example of screenwriting of

954
00:52:32,840 --> 00:52:37,320
Speaker 1: like covering a lot of ground and raising tantalizing mysteries

955
00:52:37,320 --> 00:52:40,000
Speaker 1: in a very short amount of time. Yeah, and I

956
00:52:40,000 --> 00:52:41,920
Speaker 1: would say this scene is much like that. It does

957
00:52:41,920 --> 00:52:44,840
Speaker 1: exactly the same. So the book's not safe. What's he

958
00:52:44,880 --> 00:52:46,600
Speaker 1: going to do? He steals it? Of course, he leaves

959
00:52:46,600 --> 00:52:50,800
Speaker 1: a note. Yeah, the old man finds a note saying okay,

960
00:52:50,840 --> 00:52:53,360
Speaker 1: I will return it, but he runs off with the

961
00:52:53,400 --> 00:52:55,840
Speaker 1: book because he's got to read it now. It's not safe.

962
00:52:56,520 --> 00:52:59,000
Speaker 1: That's right. I mean, I think a lot of us

963
00:52:59,000 --> 00:53:01,359
Speaker 1: can relate to this, like the books you're told not

964
00:53:01,440 --> 00:53:03,319
Speaker 1: to read, that you shouldn't read when you're younger, Like,

965
00:53:03,360 --> 00:53:04,840
Speaker 1: of course, those are the ones that you're going to

966
00:53:05,120 --> 00:53:08,399
Speaker 1: get back to. Like I think I probably mentioned this before,

967
00:53:08,440 --> 00:53:11,600
Speaker 1: but I distinctly remember I started reading a copy of

968
00:53:11,600 --> 00:53:13,400
Speaker 1: the Silence of the Lambs when I was like in

969
00:53:13,640 --> 00:53:15,920
Speaker 1: middle school, I guess. And then and my dad took

970
00:53:15,960 --> 00:53:17,480
Speaker 1: a look at it and he's like, no, no, you

971
00:53:17,480 --> 00:53:19,440
Speaker 1: can't read that and stuck it away, and it was

972
00:53:19,440 --> 00:53:21,840
Speaker 1: like the only time you ever did that. But of

973
00:53:21,840 --> 00:53:24,280
Speaker 1: course I couldn't not read the rest of the book.

974
00:53:24,320 --> 00:53:26,160
Speaker 1: I had to go and I found where it was hidden,

975
00:53:26,160 --> 00:53:28,280
Speaker 1: and I had to sneak it out and finished reading

976
00:53:28,320 --> 00:53:29,799
Speaker 1: it at night and then put it back in its

977
00:53:29,880 --> 00:53:32,400
Speaker 1: hiding place. You know, I've actually never read one of

978
00:53:32,400 --> 00:53:35,759
Speaker 1: those Thomas Harris novels, but I've heard people say that

979
00:53:36,000 --> 00:53:40,000
Speaker 1: like they're trash, but they're exquisite trash, like really top tier.

980
00:53:41,160 --> 00:53:43,080
Speaker 1: Uh yeah, I don't know, it's been a long time,

981
00:53:43,280 --> 00:53:46,400
Speaker 1: but I mean I enjoyed. I enjoyed reading Red Dragon

982
00:53:46,440 --> 00:53:50,040
Speaker 1: in Silence, and then eventually I read Hannibal, and I

983
00:53:50,080 --> 00:53:53,400
Speaker 1: remember not liking it at the time, but but I

984
00:53:53,480 --> 00:53:55,480
Speaker 1: don't know, it's a it's a weird book. Maybe I

985
00:53:55,520 --> 00:53:57,640
Speaker 1: wasn't ready for it. I don't know. Anyway, back in

986
00:53:57,719 --> 00:54:00,239
Speaker 1: the plot, Bastion so he's got the book. Now he

987
00:54:00,880 --> 00:54:03,120
Speaker 1: makes his way on the school. But of course he's

988
00:54:03,200 --> 00:54:05,400
Speaker 1: late and he peeks in the window at the classroom

989
00:54:05,400 --> 00:54:08,959
Speaker 1: they're doing a math test. Oh brother, that's no good.

990
00:54:09,080 --> 00:54:12,280
Speaker 1: So instead of going into class late, he just skips

991
00:54:12,520 --> 00:54:16,840
Speaker 1: skips it entirely runs to the school attic. That's interesting

992
00:54:16,840 --> 00:54:19,320
Speaker 1: that there even is such a thing. There's an attic

993
00:54:19,400 --> 00:54:22,279
Speaker 1: at the school, and there's like a glass case containing

994
00:54:22,320 --> 00:54:25,600
Speaker 1: the key to the attic, where the glass is already broken.

995
00:54:26,080 --> 00:54:28,880
Speaker 1: I wonder if that means like he has snuck in

996
00:54:28,920 --> 00:54:31,440
Speaker 1: there before. I don't know, or it was just somebody

997
00:54:31,440 --> 00:54:33,440
Speaker 1: else head snuck in there. I'm not sure what the

998
00:54:33,920 --> 00:54:37,480
Speaker 1: exact situation is, but you know, we he knows what

999
00:54:37,560 --> 00:54:39,760
Speaker 1: to do. This is a probably a place he's fled

1000
00:54:39,800 --> 00:54:42,160
Speaker 1: to before, and it is it is like the physical

1001
00:54:42,600 --> 00:54:47,239
Speaker 1: incarnation of the refuge that he's finding in books, and

1002
00:54:47,360 --> 00:54:50,400
Speaker 1: as we discussed early in the episode, yeah, it is

1003
00:54:50,440 --> 00:54:53,480
Speaker 1: like it's like a temple to the fantastic in our

1004
00:54:53,520 --> 00:54:56,520
Speaker 1: real world. It's kind of a transitional realm between our

1005
00:54:56,560 --> 00:54:59,040
Speaker 1: world in the realm of Fantasia. That's right. So he

1006
00:54:59,120 --> 00:55:02,080
Speaker 1: just settles in in this hidden place. It's very cozy

1007
00:55:02,160 --> 00:55:04,160
Speaker 1: where no one can find him, and it's quiet, and

1008
00:55:04,200 --> 00:55:06,439
Speaker 1: he takes out the book and he begins to read,

1009
00:55:06,520 --> 00:55:10,520
Speaker 1: and yeah, it as I said earlier, it's just it

1010
00:55:10,520 --> 00:55:13,160
Speaker 1: feels so good. Especially when I was a kid watching this,

1011
00:55:13,239 --> 00:55:16,839
Speaker 1: it was like I want that. Basically what transpires next

1012
00:55:16,920 --> 00:55:19,239
Speaker 1: is basically what transpires in the book. We get this

1013
00:55:19,680 --> 00:55:23,319
Speaker 1: initial chapter that doesn't include a tray a Trey who

1014
00:55:23,360 --> 00:55:26,359
Speaker 1: was not introduced yet. Instead, we meet the Nighthaub, we

1015
00:55:26,360 --> 00:55:28,200
Speaker 1: meet Teeny Weeney. I think in the book there's also

1016
00:55:28,280 --> 00:55:32,200
Speaker 1: a Willow, the Whisp rock Bier is here and they're

1017
00:55:32,239 --> 00:55:34,520
Speaker 1: just talking about what's going on in Fantasia, and then

1018
00:55:34,520 --> 00:55:38,000
Speaker 1: they talk about the Nothing, this force that's kind of

1019
00:55:38,440 --> 00:55:42,399
Speaker 1: gobbling up the fantastic realm. Yeah, when we first meet

1020
00:55:42,440 --> 00:55:44,720
Speaker 1: the rock Bier, I think the Nighthub and Teeny Weeney

1021
00:55:44,760 --> 00:55:47,239
Speaker 1: are sort of camping together in the woods, and the

1022
00:55:47,400 --> 00:55:50,400
Speaker 1: rock Bighter is this giant figure made of rock that

1023
00:55:50,520 --> 00:55:56,879
Speaker 1: like rolls in with a manual steamroller bike or something. Yeah,

1024
00:55:56,920 --> 00:55:58,960
Speaker 1: And these are great creatures and there's a good stick

1025
00:55:59,000 --> 00:56:02,360
Speaker 1: in here, but they're all facing the same problem. The

1026
00:56:02,640 --> 00:56:05,960
Speaker 1: Nothing is consuming parts of the world. There's some kind

1027
00:56:06,040 --> 00:56:10,799
Speaker 1: of force that's annihilating everything. They're trying to escape it

1028
00:56:11,200 --> 00:56:15,880
Speaker 1: and I think ultimately they are headed towards the Ivory Tower,

1029
00:56:16,000 --> 00:56:19,640
Speaker 1: the home of the Impress of Fantasia of this world,

1030
00:56:20,360 --> 00:56:22,880
Speaker 1: because they're they're going to find out what can be

1031
00:56:22,920 --> 00:56:25,880
Speaker 1: done about the Nothing right right, And it's here that

1032
00:56:25,920 --> 00:56:28,880
Speaker 1: we're going to get a scene where a Treyu is introduced.

1033
00:56:28,960 --> 00:56:32,279
Speaker 1: He's summoned, he's given the quest of helping to heal

1034
00:56:32,320 --> 00:56:34,520
Speaker 1: the when we find out that the childlike Empress is

1035
00:56:34,560 --> 00:56:36,360
Speaker 1: sick and that she alone is not going to be

1036
00:56:36,400 --> 00:56:41,520
Speaker 1: able to save everyone. And then also meanwhile, Bastion narrates

1037
00:56:41,560 --> 00:56:43,960
Speaker 1: this bit where we learn that the Nothing has sent

1038
00:56:44,040 --> 00:56:46,840
Speaker 1: its own servant out on a quest, and this servant

1039
00:56:46,920 --> 00:56:51,400
Speaker 1: is the Goamorque. This is a first, absolutely terrifying glimpse

1040
00:56:51,560 --> 00:56:55,520
Speaker 1: of this massive wolf creature. You know, the strong elements

1041
00:56:55,520 --> 00:56:58,680
Speaker 1: of the of the werewolf and also the giant wolf

1042
00:56:58,840 --> 00:57:02,959
Speaker 1: of finn Rear of Norse and as all in mythology. Yeah,

1043
00:57:02,960 --> 00:57:08,200
Speaker 1: the Goodmork is extremely scary. I remember I remember that fear,

1044
00:57:08,360 --> 00:57:12,000
Speaker 1: that like bone deep fear watching watching the Wolf as

1045
00:57:12,000 --> 00:57:15,960
Speaker 1: a child. Green eyes, Oh yeah, green eye. It has

1046
00:57:16,000 --> 00:57:18,800
Speaker 1: green eyes in the book as well, I should mention

1047
00:57:18,880 --> 00:57:21,680
Speaker 1: in the book as in the film, the phantations at

1048
00:57:21,720 --> 00:57:24,560
Speaker 1: the beginning are discussing the nothing and what soone asked, well,

1049
00:57:24,600 --> 00:57:26,480
Speaker 1: what does it look like? And they're like, well, you know,

1050
00:57:26,600 --> 00:57:28,080
Speaker 1: is it like a hole? And then they're like, well,

1051
00:57:28,080 --> 00:57:30,320
Speaker 1: it's a whole would be something, but this is nothing.

1052
00:57:30,720 --> 00:57:32,000
Speaker 1: They go into it a little bit more in the

1053
00:57:32,000 --> 00:57:34,400
Speaker 1: book and they point out that it's it's like going

1054
00:57:34,480 --> 00:57:37,280
Speaker 1: blind when you look at it. So just a little

1055
00:57:37,360 --> 00:57:42,040
Speaker 1: hint of sort of the paradox nature paradoxical nature of

1056
00:57:42,080 --> 00:57:44,280
Speaker 1: Michael Linda's work at times, like the idea of like

1057
00:57:44,320 --> 00:57:46,320
Speaker 1: what is it like to look at something where there

1058
00:57:46,400 --> 00:57:49,080
Speaker 1: is nothing at all? It's not like seeing an absence,

1059
00:57:49,120 --> 00:57:52,120
Speaker 1: it's like like blindness. It's something that can't even really

1060
00:57:52,120 --> 00:57:54,560
Speaker 1: be put into words. I mean, this reminds me of

1061
00:57:54,600 --> 00:57:57,479
Speaker 1: things we've discussed on Core episodes before, where there are

1062
00:57:57,520 --> 00:58:01,680
Speaker 1: you know, neurological conditions affecting to say, the visual processing

1063
00:58:01,720 --> 00:58:05,440
Speaker 1: centers of the brain where you can have you can

1064
00:58:05,520 --> 00:58:08,000
Speaker 1: have essentially blind spots in your vision. And you might

1065
00:58:08,040 --> 00:58:11,120
Speaker 1: imagine that manifests as like Okay, you're looking around and

1066
00:58:11,200 --> 00:58:13,600
Speaker 1: there's like a dark spot in the middle of your

1067
00:58:13,680 --> 00:58:17,400
Speaker 1: vision where no light comes through, but instead for some

1068
00:58:17,440 --> 00:58:20,800
Speaker 1: of these conditions. Instead, what you get is the sensation

1069
00:58:20,960 --> 00:58:24,080
Speaker 1: that you're seeing a continuous scene, but in fact it's

1070
00:58:24,120 --> 00:58:28,160
Speaker 1: like stitching together these two places that don't actually connect

1071
00:58:28,200 --> 00:58:31,680
Speaker 1: in space. So you might like, I think one of

1072
00:58:31,680 --> 00:58:33,560
Speaker 1: the examples we talked about is like you might look

1073
00:58:33,560 --> 00:58:36,040
Speaker 1: at a dog and instead of a blank spot over

1074
00:58:36,120 --> 00:58:40,640
Speaker 1: the dog's face, the dog just has no face. Yeah. Now,

1075
00:58:40,720 --> 00:58:43,520
Speaker 1: then the movie doesn't really attempt to bring this idea

1076
00:58:43,600 --> 00:58:46,600
Speaker 1: to life. We basically see all these like swirling storm

1077
00:58:46,640 --> 00:58:51,080
Speaker 1: clouds and nebula effects going on where the nothing is

1078
00:58:51,160 --> 00:58:53,280
Speaker 1: moving in and I don't know, we can either think

1079
00:58:53,280 --> 00:58:55,200
Speaker 1: of that as I guess it's just something visual to

1080
00:58:55,400 --> 00:58:57,640
Speaker 1: represent the nothing, or perhaps this is supposed to be

1081
00:58:57,680 --> 00:59:00,240
Speaker 1: like sort of the event horizon of the nothing. Yeah,

1082
00:59:00,240 --> 00:59:02,680
Speaker 1: I think the event horizon is a good way way

1083
00:59:02,680 --> 00:59:05,520
Speaker 1: to put it. It's often, yeah, represented as like a

1084
00:59:05,600 --> 00:59:08,840
Speaker 1: storm and these winds and clouds and all that. All right, Well,

1085
00:59:08,840 --> 00:59:10,680
Speaker 1: at this point we have we have assigned our main

1086
00:59:10,880 --> 00:59:15,720
Speaker 1: quest to our fantasia hero betray you. It's time from

1087
00:59:15,800 --> 00:59:18,720
Speaker 1: to set off and get some answers. So he goes

1088
00:59:18,760 --> 00:59:22,080
Speaker 1: to many different places, but he can't find a way

1089
00:59:22,200 --> 00:59:24,760
Speaker 1: to stop the nothing. Oh and we should mention he's

1090
00:59:24,760 --> 00:59:28,600
Speaker 1: equipped with. They get the agents of the Empress give

1091
00:59:28,680 --> 00:59:33,440
Speaker 1: him a talisman called the Urn Yeah, which has like

1092
00:59:33,480 --> 00:59:38,880
Speaker 1: the sort of intertwined serpent symbol that that looks very cool.

1093
00:59:39,320 --> 00:59:42,200
Speaker 1: So he's got the Oorn, he's got his loyal horse, Artax,

1094
00:59:42,400 --> 00:59:45,800
Speaker 1: and they're riding around trying to find answers. And they

1095
00:59:45,840 --> 00:59:48,200
Speaker 1: go to one place, they find nothing. They go somewhere else,

1096
00:59:48,240 --> 00:59:51,680
Speaker 1: they find nothing, not the nothing, just no answers, And

1097
00:59:51,720 --> 00:59:55,120
Speaker 1: eventually they end up in the swamps of Sadness. And

1098
00:59:55,160 --> 00:59:56,920
Speaker 1: here's where we sort of pick up on the quest

1099
00:59:57,000 --> 00:59:59,840
Speaker 1: in more real time. And one of the first things

1100
01:00:00,000 --> 01:00:03,840
Speaker 1: it happens here is something that I know horrified children

1101
01:00:03,840 --> 01:00:07,640
Speaker 1: of my generation round the world, the death of our tax.

1102
01:00:07,720 --> 01:00:10,800
Speaker 1: Where so they go into the swamps of Sadness and they, uh,

1103
01:00:11,480 --> 01:00:13,560
Speaker 1: the story of this place is that if you let

1104
01:00:13,600 --> 01:00:16,439
Speaker 1: the sadness overtake you, you will be sucked down into

1105
01:00:16,480 --> 01:00:19,920
Speaker 1: the muck. And this happens to a tray U's loyal

1106
01:00:20,040 --> 01:00:24,160
Speaker 1: horse here and it's it is so sad it is.

1107
01:00:24,200 --> 01:00:25,760
Speaker 1: I mean, if you're watching it as an adult or

1108
01:00:25,800 --> 01:00:28,920
Speaker 1: a child, it really pulls at the heartstrings because our

1109
01:00:29,040 --> 01:00:32,080
Speaker 1: tax just straight up dies of sadness with a tray you,

1110
01:00:32,280 --> 01:00:35,040
Speaker 1: pleading for him to hang on. I keep waffling on

1111
01:00:35,360 --> 01:00:38,840
Speaker 1: which is worst, I guess because in the book the

1112
01:00:38,920 --> 01:00:41,440
Speaker 1: horse talks and in the movie the horse is just

1113
01:00:41,480 --> 01:00:46,040
Speaker 1: a horse. But um, and so it's certainly potent enough

1114
01:00:46,040 --> 01:00:48,760
Speaker 1: in the film because there's something about the communication gap,

1115
01:00:48,840 --> 01:00:50,840
Speaker 1: like how do you talk a horse out of sadness?

1116
01:00:50,920 --> 01:00:54,920
Speaker 1: You can't, like, you know, it's it's he's helpless. In

1117
01:00:54,960 --> 01:00:58,880
Speaker 1: the book, though, they have a whole conversation and like

1118
01:00:58,920 --> 01:01:01,479
Speaker 1: they're likes he's like, hey, you gotta you know, don't

1119
01:01:02,000 --> 01:01:04,280
Speaker 1: you gotta you know, push through it, you know, don't

1120
01:01:04,320 --> 01:01:06,880
Speaker 1: don't give into the sadness. And so this is part

1121
01:01:06,920 --> 01:01:09,840
Speaker 1: where to quote it goes like this, leave me, my

1122
01:01:09,920 --> 01:01:12,640
Speaker 1: master said the little horse. I can't make it go

1123
01:01:12,680 --> 01:01:15,640
Speaker 1: on alone. Don't bother about me. I can't stand the

1124
01:01:15,680 --> 01:01:19,800
Speaker 1: sadness anymore. I want to die. And then our tax

1125
01:01:19,880 --> 01:01:22,440
Speaker 1: explains he is sinking due to his sadness, but that

1126
01:01:22,520 --> 01:01:25,240
Speaker 1: atray You is protected by the urn, and he makes

1127
01:01:25,280 --> 01:01:28,720
Speaker 1: one last request to his master, a tray you. He says, quote,

1128
01:01:28,760 --> 01:01:31,120
Speaker 1: I beg you to go away. I don't want you

1129
01:01:31,160 --> 01:01:34,600
Speaker 1: to see my end. So heavy stuff agreed. I think

1130
01:01:34,640 --> 01:01:37,600
Speaker 1: actually though, it might be even worse when it's just

1131
01:01:37,680 --> 01:01:40,440
Speaker 1: the horse that can't talk. Because it can't talk, so

1132
01:01:40,640 --> 01:01:45,000
Speaker 1: you have no closure. There's no last words or anything. Yeah,

1133
01:01:45,120 --> 01:01:47,440
Speaker 1: there's no sense that the horse is okay with this

1134
01:01:47,560 --> 01:01:50,040
Speaker 1: on any level. Oh we should also mention, Joe, I

1135
01:01:50,040 --> 01:01:54,160
Speaker 1: know you're a big fan of like woodland environments that

1136
01:01:54,200 --> 01:01:57,400
Speaker 1: are created artificially on a set. This is a fantastic

1137
01:01:57,440 --> 01:02:00,280
Speaker 1: swamp set that they've put together here. You think this

1138
01:02:00,280 --> 01:02:04,200
Speaker 1: this is probably indoor, right, I'm almost positive it is,

1139
01:02:04,200 --> 01:02:06,080
Speaker 1: because I think I've seen some behind the scenes stuff

1140
01:02:06,120 --> 01:02:08,440
Speaker 1: about how they pulled off this horse sinking and they

1141
01:02:08,440 --> 01:02:11,240
Speaker 1: had to have like a whole like elaborate system with

1142
01:02:11,320 --> 01:02:15,480
Speaker 1: like an elevator or something. Yeah, well it's brilliant. It

1143
01:02:15,520 --> 01:02:18,960
Speaker 1: looks so good and so dank like this the swamp

1144
01:02:19,040 --> 01:02:21,960
Speaker 1: is disgusting. But the reason there at the swamp is

1145
01:02:22,360 --> 01:02:25,200
Speaker 1: I think a tray you has heard from somewhere that

1146
01:02:25,240 --> 01:02:27,200
Speaker 1: he might be able to find a way to stop

1147
01:02:27,200 --> 01:02:29,840
Speaker 1: to the nothing if he talks to a figure known

1148
01:02:29,880 --> 01:02:33,680
Speaker 1: as Morla. The aged one is that, right, Yeah, an

1149
01:02:33,680 --> 01:02:37,120
Speaker 1: ancient giant tortoise that has dwelt so long in the

1150
01:02:37,160 --> 01:02:40,120
Speaker 1: swamp of sadness and just lived for so long in

1151
01:02:40,120 --> 01:02:43,960
Speaker 1: general that nothing matters anymore, like not even a little bit.

1152
01:02:44,920 --> 01:02:47,160
Speaker 1: And so it's it's it's very interesting on the page

1153
01:02:47,200 --> 01:02:49,120
Speaker 1: and on the screen. I think they adapt it quite well.

1154
01:02:49,520 --> 01:02:52,080
Speaker 1: More La talks to itself. It has like two distinct

1155
01:02:52,080 --> 01:02:56,200
Speaker 1: personalities and and ultimately just really doesn't care about anything

1156
01:02:57,640 --> 01:03:02,400
Speaker 1: but a tray. You keeps asking, and eventually Morla share

1157
01:03:02,520 --> 01:03:06,440
Speaker 1: some wisdom. The childlike Empress, who is not old but

1158
01:03:06,520 --> 01:03:09,640
Speaker 1: has always been young, needs a new name, though no

1159
01:03:09,680 --> 01:03:12,960
Speaker 1: one in Fantasia can give it to her, so you're

1160
01:03:12,960 --> 01:03:16,040
Speaker 1: gonna have to go see the Southern Oracle for more information. Now,

1161
01:03:16,080 --> 01:03:18,800
Speaker 1: in the movie, we do not find out here that

1162
01:03:18,840 --> 01:03:22,560
Speaker 1: the Empress needs a new name. I think a tray

1163
01:03:22,600 --> 01:03:24,520
Speaker 1: who doesn't find that out in the movie until he

1164
01:03:24,560 --> 01:03:28,600
Speaker 1: gets to the Southern Oracle, right, yes, I believe that's right. Yes,

1165
01:03:29,000 --> 01:03:31,400
Speaker 1: But instead he for some reason, he's just sent to

1166
01:03:31,400 --> 01:03:33,840
Speaker 1: the Southern Oracle. I can't remember exactly what Morris says,

1167
01:03:33,920 --> 01:03:37,920
Speaker 1: but it's like Southern Oracle can help you, and it's

1168
01:03:37,920 --> 01:03:40,120
Speaker 1: there's a funny scene where he, of course, he keeps

1169
01:03:40,120 --> 01:03:42,720
Speaker 1: climbing a tree to speak to this gigantic tortoise, and

1170
01:03:42,720 --> 01:03:45,800
Speaker 1: the tortoise keeps sneezing and that knocks him out of

1171
01:03:45,800 --> 01:03:48,800
Speaker 1: the tree. But there is in this scene, there's a

1172
01:03:48,840 --> 01:03:55,160
Speaker 1: moment where Bastion out in the real world screams, that's

1173
01:03:55,160 --> 01:03:59,160
Speaker 1: something that frightens him, and his scream is heard by

1174
01:03:59,200 --> 01:04:02,000
Speaker 1: the characters in the book. Yeah, this is a key,

1175
01:04:02,240 --> 01:04:06,040
Speaker 1: key scene where where Bastian begins to realize that there

1176
01:04:06,120 --> 01:04:11,600
Speaker 1: is this connection between his world and the world of Fantasia.

1177
01:04:12,680 --> 01:04:15,720
Speaker 1: Now in the book, it doesn't occur until the next

1178
01:04:15,760 --> 01:04:19,400
Speaker 1: sequence because in the book there's a whole other encounter

1179
01:04:19,640 --> 01:04:22,880
Speaker 1: encounter that follows that's not depicted in the film. A

1180
01:04:23,000 --> 01:04:27,000
Speaker 1: Trayu encounters Ygramole, the Mini the Horror of Horrors, which

1181
01:04:27,040 --> 01:04:29,880
Speaker 1: is the strange creature that's like a swarm of hive

1182
01:04:30,000 --> 01:04:32,760
Speaker 1: mind hornets that then takes the shape of a great

1183
01:04:32,800 --> 01:04:35,760
Speaker 1: spider and has a deadly poison that will kill you

1184
01:04:35,800 --> 01:04:38,360
Speaker 1: within an hour, but will grant the victim the power

1185
01:04:38,400 --> 01:04:42,720
Speaker 1: to teleport to anywhere in Fantasia to die. It's it's

1186
01:04:42,760 --> 01:04:45,800
Speaker 1: weird and wonderful, and it's in this encounter in the

1187
01:04:45,840 --> 01:04:48,640
Speaker 1: book that Bastian's voice is heard by a Trayu and

1188
01:04:48,720 --> 01:04:51,360
Speaker 1: the poison is how he ultimately makes it to the oracle.

1189
01:04:51,600 --> 01:04:54,040
Speaker 1: And it's also where he meets Falcore, the luck Dragon,

1190
01:04:54,240 --> 01:04:58,040
Speaker 1: because Falcore is caught in Nigramole's web. Oh there's a

1191
01:04:58,120 --> 01:05:00,520
Speaker 1: very different meeting scene in the movies. On the movie,

1192
01:05:00,520 --> 01:05:03,000
Speaker 1: a tray You is leaving the swamps of sadness, but

1193
01:05:04,040 --> 01:05:06,520
Speaker 1: it's just too much. The sadness is overtaking him. He's

1194
01:05:06,520 --> 01:05:09,040
Speaker 1: sinking down in the mud. And at the same time,

1195
01:05:09,400 --> 01:05:13,200
Speaker 1: the Gamorc, the horrible wolf creature who every time we

1196
01:05:13,240 --> 01:05:15,479
Speaker 1: catch a glimpse of him, it's almost just a blur,

1197
01:05:15,640 --> 01:05:18,880
Speaker 1: but it's terrifying, and he's racing toward the hero of

1198
01:05:18,920 --> 01:05:21,720
Speaker 1: the Empress who to kill him. And right, you know,

1199
01:05:21,800 --> 01:05:23,880
Speaker 1: right when he's about to sink under and the wolf

1200
01:05:24,000 --> 01:05:28,040
Speaker 1: is falling upon him, suddenly a white, fluffy flying serpent

1201
01:05:28,160 --> 01:05:30,320
Speaker 1: just comes in out of the sky and lifts a

1202
01:05:30,400 --> 01:05:32,200
Speaker 1: tray you out of the mud. And this is how

1203
01:05:32,240 --> 01:05:35,520
Speaker 1: a tray You and Falcore meat ah foul Kore. I mean,

1204
01:05:35,520 --> 01:05:38,440
Speaker 1: who doesn't love Falcore. It's just such a great character

1205
01:05:38,480 --> 01:05:42,200
Speaker 1: and just wonderful creature design in the movie Falcore is Yeah,

1206
01:05:42,240 --> 01:05:45,480
Speaker 1: a fluffy, white flying serpent kind of like the like

1207
01:05:45,560 --> 01:05:48,640
Speaker 1: a like a Chinese dragon design, but very much with

1208
01:05:48,800 --> 01:05:55,440
Speaker 1: a cute dog's face. Yes, yeah, wonderful, wonderful design. I

1209
01:05:55,440 --> 01:05:59,000
Speaker 1: should also point out that the name is Falcore in

1210
01:05:59,080 --> 01:06:01,640
Speaker 1: the movie Falco or in the English translation of the book,

1211
01:06:01,840 --> 01:06:05,840
Speaker 1: but in the original German it's Fucker, but that was

1212
01:06:05,920 --> 01:06:08,560
Speaker 1: changed for the English translation, I think for obvious reasons.

1213
01:06:17,760 --> 01:06:21,160
Speaker 1: So A Trey You wakes up next to Falcore on

1214
01:06:21,160 --> 01:06:25,360
Speaker 1: a mountaintop and they they introduce themselves. Falcore explains that

1215
01:06:25,400 --> 01:06:28,040
Speaker 1: he is a luck dragon. He gets he you know,

1216
01:06:28,120 --> 01:06:31,240
Speaker 1: he gets where he's going with luck, and he has

1217
01:06:31,280 --> 01:06:34,640
Speaker 1: conveniently brought a tray you to the Southern Oracle. I

1218
01:06:34,680 --> 01:06:37,640
Speaker 1: don't remember. Does Falcore ever explain, like really where he

1219
01:06:37,720 --> 01:06:39,680
Speaker 1: came from. It just seems like he just showed up

1220
01:06:39,680 --> 01:06:42,800
Speaker 1: to help. Yeah, it's just lucky like that, I guess.

1221
01:06:42,800 --> 01:06:44,760
Speaker 1: So it's it's something that, like I say, in the book,

1222
01:06:44,760 --> 01:06:47,840
Speaker 1: it makes more sense because they're they're sort of common prisoners.

1223
01:06:47,840 --> 01:06:50,160
Speaker 1: They meet on the road at a specific place and

1224
01:06:50,200 --> 01:06:55,080
Speaker 1: then their stories become intertwined. It's a little more rushed

1225
01:06:55,320 --> 01:06:58,760
Speaker 1: in this adaptation. Now here. It's in this part that

1226
01:06:59,560 --> 01:07:02,680
Speaker 1: A Trey You and Falkhor meet with the gnomes Ingi

1227
01:07:02,720 --> 01:07:07,120
Speaker 1: Wook and Urgle. Ingi Wook is like in this room

1228
01:07:07,160 --> 01:07:10,600
Speaker 1: that is kind of dusty and smoky. It's sort of

1229
01:07:10,600 --> 01:07:14,320
Speaker 1: a cave, but with gnarled roots everywhere and old scrolls

1230
01:07:14,400 --> 01:07:17,520
Speaker 1: and potions and all that ingi Wook is supposed to.

1231
01:07:17,560 --> 01:07:20,720
Speaker 1: He fashions himself as a scientist of some form, and

1232
01:07:20,720 --> 01:07:23,720
Speaker 1: he's always doing quote research, though I think this is

1233
01:07:23,760 --> 01:07:26,880
Speaker 1: played for comedy, like it's questionable of what value his

1234
01:07:27,000 --> 01:07:31,160
Speaker 1: research actually is, right, Yeah, he's the foremost authority though

1235
01:07:31,200 --> 01:07:34,040
Speaker 1: on the Southern Oracle and has a lot of wisdom

1236
01:07:34,080 --> 01:07:38,280
Speaker 1: to share. But I mean he's these these are cookie characters,

1237
01:07:38,320 --> 01:07:41,640
Speaker 1: like they're constantly fighting with each other, and yeah, it's

1238
01:07:41,720 --> 01:07:45,720
Speaker 1: uncertain how how much knowledge he really has to share

1239
01:07:45,720 --> 01:07:49,360
Speaker 1: about any of this. But he does actually get a

1240
01:07:49,400 --> 01:07:52,360
Speaker 1: tray there, so ingi Wok and Ingi Wok leads a

1241
01:07:52,400 --> 01:07:54,800
Speaker 1: tray you up to sort of an observatory where they

1242
01:07:54,800 --> 01:07:58,880
Speaker 1: can look down upon the first of the two gates

1243
01:07:58,920 --> 01:08:01,840
Speaker 1: the tray you must pass to reach the Southern Oracle,

1244
01:08:02,200 --> 01:08:05,160
Speaker 1: and the first gate is a pair of sphinxes, these

1245
01:08:05,240 --> 01:08:10,080
Speaker 1: huge statues, and Ingiwik explains that their eyes stay closed

1246
01:08:10,160 --> 01:08:13,960
Speaker 1: until someone who does not feel his own worth tries

1247
01:08:14,000 --> 01:08:16,600
Speaker 1: to pass by, and we get to witness this with

1248
01:08:16,680 --> 01:08:19,920
Speaker 1: sort of a paladin riding a horse to get through

1249
01:08:20,000 --> 01:08:22,720
Speaker 1: the pass and he comes up upon them. He's got

1250
01:08:22,720 --> 01:08:26,120
Speaker 1: his armor gleaming, he's holding a big spear. He looks

1251
01:08:26,160 --> 01:08:29,799
Speaker 1: pretty confident until the Sphinxes open their eyes and then boom,

1252
01:08:29,880 --> 01:08:32,800
Speaker 1: they zap him with laser as he sort of explodes

1253
01:08:32,840 --> 01:08:36,960
Speaker 1: off his horse and dies. But a Trey us like, well,

1254
01:08:37,000 --> 01:08:38,800
Speaker 1: I've got to get through there, so I'm going to

1255
01:08:38,880 --> 01:08:41,120
Speaker 1: try it out. So we see him approach and he

1256
01:08:41,520 --> 01:08:45,559
Speaker 1: walks underneath these huge, imposing statues. The designs are pretty scary.

1257
01:08:45,640 --> 01:08:49,280
Speaker 1: It's good. Yeah, I was thinking that they always have

1258
01:08:49,360 --> 01:08:51,919
Speaker 1: looked at me kind of like Ray Harry Housing creations,

1259
01:08:51,920 --> 01:08:53,840
Speaker 1: like they might come to life at any second, but

1260
01:08:53,880 --> 01:08:56,920
Speaker 1: they don't really, aside from the eyes opening, I see

1261
01:08:56,920 --> 01:09:00,360
Speaker 1: that Ray Harry House in comparison. Yeah, it's baviously mentioned.

1262
01:09:00,360 --> 01:09:03,519
Speaker 1: The sphinxes definitely have nipples. Like I said, that always

1263
01:09:03,520 --> 01:09:05,240
Speaker 1: stood out to me, and for some reason, I always

1264
01:09:05,280 --> 01:09:08,000
Speaker 1: interpreted that as a younger viewer, thinking, oh man, this

1265
01:09:08,000 --> 01:09:10,439
Speaker 1: this movie is serious, Like this is kind of the

1266
01:09:10,479 --> 01:09:14,000
Speaker 1: whole This film isn't safe, like clearly that the nipples

1267
01:09:14,000 --> 01:09:17,320
Speaker 1: indicate that this is not just for kids, that this

1268
01:09:17,360 --> 01:09:20,240
Speaker 1: could be who knows what could happen a tray who

1269
01:09:20,280 --> 01:09:23,040
Speaker 1: is not safe? Yeah, it's true, and this is actually

1270
01:09:23,120 --> 01:09:25,640
Speaker 1: in the normal sense, also a very scary scene a

1271
01:09:25,720 --> 01:09:30,719
Speaker 1: tray you like, as he's walking up the dead paladin

1272
01:09:30,800 --> 01:09:33,360
Speaker 1: on the ground, his visor flips back when it's blown

1273
01:09:33,360 --> 01:09:35,599
Speaker 1: by the wind that you see like like a charred

1274
01:09:35,720 --> 01:09:38,640
Speaker 1: face inside the mask. So this guy's burned up by

1275
01:09:38,680 --> 01:09:41,880
Speaker 1: the sphinxes and a tray you He tries to walk through,

1276
01:09:41,960 --> 01:09:44,839
Speaker 1: but apparently he fails the test of faith in himself.

1277
01:09:44,880 --> 01:09:48,840
Speaker 1: He didn't have enough confidence, and the Sphinxes open their eyes.

1278
01:09:48,920 --> 01:09:51,280
Speaker 1: They try to zap him, but he jumps. He just

1279
01:09:51,320 --> 01:09:54,280
Speaker 1: barely avoids the blast. It kind of gets through on

1280
01:09:54,360 --> 01:09:56,960
Speaker 1: this one on a technicality, So next he's got to

1281
01:09:57,000 --> 01:10:00,639
Speaker 1: face another gait. This is the magic mirror. An inky

1282
01:10:00,680 --> 01:10:04,719
Speaker 1: book explains that when they look into the magic mirror,

1283
01:10:04,720 --> 01:10:08,960
Speaker 1: that people must face themselves. The kind men find that

1284
01:10:09,000 --> 01:10:12,000
Speaker 1: they are cruel, brave men find that they are cowards.

1285
01:10:12,280 --> 01:10:15,839
Speaker 1: When confronted with their true selves, most men run away screaming,

1286
01:10:16,520 --> 01:10:18,600
Speaker 1: but something that's kind of interesting. When a tray you

1287
01:10:18,720 --> 01:10:20,840
Speaker 1: goes and looks in this mirror, there's a kind of

1288
01:10:21,120 --> 01:10:23,920
Speaker 1: there's like a double exposure effect in the film, where

1289
01:10:23,920 --> 01:10:26,120
Speaker 1: we see a tray You looking and seeing himself, but

1290
01:10:26,240 --> 01:10:30,439
Speaker 1: we also see Bastion sitting there reading the book Yes,

1291
01:10:31,000 --> 01:10:35,920
Speaker 1: And strangely, Bastion detects this. It's as if he reads

1292
01:10:36,000 --> 01:10:39,599
Speaker 1: a description of himself in the book. In this scene,

1293
01:10:39,640 --> 01:10:42,360
Speaker 1: he gets freaked out and he throws the book away.

1294
01:10:42,800 --> 01:10:46,679
Speaker 1: He says, this is going too far, but then he's

1295
01:10:46,720 --> 01:10:50,720
Speaker 1: also kind of tempted. He's got overwhelming curiosity, like what

1296
01:10:50,840 --> 01:10:54,200
Speaker 1: if they do really know about me and Fantasia? And

1297
01:10:54,280 --> 01:10:58,120
Speaker 1: so he goes back, he retrieves the book he keeps reading,

1298
01:10:58,120 --> 01:11:01,840
Speaker 1: and a tray You walks through the mirror. Yea. Now

1299
01:11:01,880 --> 01:11:03,839
Speaker 1: in the book, the three gates are a bit different.

1300
01:11:03,880 --> 01:11:06,320
Speaker 1: I'll note Gate one is that if you're caught in

1301
01:11:06,360 --> 01:11:08,280
Speaker 1: the gaze of the Sphinxes, you have to solve every

1302
01:11:08,360 --> 01:11:11,200
Speaker 1: riddle in the world until you die. Gate two is

1303
01:11:11,280 --> 01:11:13,479
Speaker 1: essentially the same, the test of the true self. But

1304
01:11:13,520 --> 01:11:16,439
Speaker 1: then Gate three is a keyless gate that only opens

1305
01:11:16,479 --> 01:11:19,040
Speaker 1: once you no longer have the desire to pass through

1306
01:11:20,560 --> 01:11:23,040
Speaker 1: but in the film, he basically comes finally to the

1307
01:11:23,040 --> 01:11:25,960
Speaker 1: Southern Oracle, which is basically the same two sphinxes from before,

1308
01:11:26,280 --> 01:11:29,479
Speaker 1: except now they're blue. Yes, it feels like maybe kind

1309
01:11:29,479 --> 01:11:32,880
Speaker 1: of a short cut, but okay, and the Sphinxes tell

1310
01:11:32,960 --> 01:11:36,840
Speaker 1: him when Trey Who arrives, they tell him, okay, here's

1311
01:11:36,880 --> 01:11:39,799
Speaker 1: the solution. Here's how to beat the nothing. The Empress

1312
01:11:39,880 --> 01:11:42,439
Speaker 1: needs a new name, and a trey who says, a

1313
01:11:42,479 --> 01:11:44,640
Speaker 1: new name. That's easy. I can give her a new

1314
01:11:44,720 --> 01:11:46,880
Speaker 1: name if you want. I can pick any name I want.

1315
01:11:47,160 --> 01:11:50,960
Speaker 1: But the Southern Oracles tell him, Nope, you can't do it.

1316
01:11:51,080 --> 01:11:54,879
Speaker 1: In fact, no one from Fantasia can do it. Only

1317
01:11:54,920 --> 01:11:59,200
Speaker 1: a human child can give her this new name. And

1318
01:11:59,280 --> 01:12:01,840
Speaker 1: he's like, well, where can I find a human? And

1319
01:12:01,920 --> 01:12:05,200
Speaker 1: they say, you cannot find one inside Fantasia. There are

1320
01:12:05,240 --> 01:12:08,320
Speaker 1: no humans here. You have to look outside the world

1321
01:12:08,439 --> 01:12:11,719
Speaker 1: to find them. Yeah, everyone in Fantasia is a dream,

1322
01:12:11,920 --> 01:12:15,559
Speaker 1: is a creation of the imagination, and a dream cannot

1323
01:12:15,600 --> 01:12:18,680
Speaker 1: itself dream. So he's got to get outside somehow to

1324
01:12:18,720 --> 01:12:21,960
Speaker 1: find one. But then the Sphinxes are crumbling. They tell

1325
01:12:22,000 --> 01:12:23,680
Speaker 1: him he's got a hurry. You know, we don't know

1326
01:12:23,720 --> 01:12:26,479
Speaker 1: how long we can withstand the Nothing, and here we're

1327
01:12:26,479 --> 01:12:28,679
Speaker 1: onto the next adventure. So a tray you and Falco

1328
01:12:28,760 --> 01:12:31,400
Speaker 1: are flying through the clouds. They fly over many landscapes,

1329
01:12:31,479 --> 01:12:35,960
Speaker 1: mountain tops, deserts, and they're looking for the boundaries of Fantasia,

1330
01:12:36,000 --> 01:12:38,599
Speaker 1: though neither one of them knows where that boundary lies.

1331
01:12:39,000 --> 01:12:42,120
Speaker 1: And this scene I thought was kind of interesting because

1332
01:12:42,439 --> 01:12:45,479
Speaker 1: suddenly it's right after this dire scene where we learn

1333
01:12:45,560 --> 01:12:49,320
Speaker 1: about how close the Nothing is to destroying all, but

1334
01:12:49,360 --> 01:12:51,519
Speaker 1: then we go straight to flying around and there's this

1335
01:12:51,600 --> 01:12:55,000
Speaker 1: sense of exhilaration. There's laughter, A TRAYU and falcoor are

1336
01:12:55,000 --> 01:12:57,439
Speaker 1: both laughing. I don't know. I thought it's notable that

1337
01:12:57,479 --> 01:13:02,160
Speaker 1: this scene is fun right after this horrible warning given

1338
01:13:02,200 --> 01:13:05,880
Speaker 1: by the Southern Oracle about impending doom if he does

1339
01:13:05,920 --> 01:13:08,719
Speaker 1: not find the human child that can name the Empress.

1340
01:13:09,520 --> 01:13:12,000
Speaker 1: I think maybe there's something going on here about the

1341
01:13:12,120 --> 01:13:16,760
Speaker 1: childhood experience with adventure narratives, or narratives more generally, the

1342
01:13:16,800 --> 01:13:20,639
Speaker 1: seeming paradox of the way that excitement for the human

1343
01:13:20,800 --> 01:13:25,200
Speaker 1: child who is reading is heightened by increasing the stakes

1344
01:13:25,240 --> 01:13:28,040
Speaker 1: within the story, so as the situation for the characters

1345
01:13:28,120 --> 01:13:32,000
Speaker 1: becomes more dire, the experience for the reader becomes more fun,

1346
01:13:32,479 --> 01:13:35,320
Speaker 1: and I think that maybe the film is suggesting something

1347
01:13:35,320 --> 01:13:39,800
Speaker 1: about the ongoing contagion between the worlds here, like Bastion's

1348
01:13:39,840 --> 01:13:43,960
Speaker 1: excitement with the story is infecting a tray You. I

1349
01:13:43,960 --> 01:13:47,400
Speaker 1: think that's a solid interpretation, because, yeah, within the context

1350
01:13:47,439 --> 01:13:49,559
Speaker 1: of what's actually going on in Fantasia, this is all

1351
01:13:49,640 --> 01:13:53,160
Speaker 1: just a failed surveillance mission, you know. It's they're just

1352
01:13:54,080 --> 01:13:58,400
Speaker 1: they're trying to find something and they don't find it.

1353
01:13:59,080 --> 01:14:01,320
Speaker 1: But it's a very fun sequence, Like these are great

1354
01:14:01,360 --> 01:14:03,479
Speaker 1: flying sequences. Who doesn't want to fly around on a

1355
01:14:03,560 --> 01:14:06,240
Speaker 1: luck dragon after watching this? Back in the real world,

1356
01:14:06,320 --> 01:14:09,479
Speaker 1: we could get a little scene where Bastion wishes that

1357
01:14:09,560 --> 01:14:11,760
Speaker 1: a tray You and Falcore would come and ask him

1358
01:14:11,760 --> 01:14:15,000
Speaker 1: to name the Empress, because he says his mother she

1359
01:14:15,120 --> 01:14:17,479
Speaker 1: had a wonderful name, though he doesn't say what the

1360
01:14:17,560 --> 01:14:20,800
Speaker 1: name is. Yeah, now, when they're flying along in Fantasia,

1361
01:14:20,840 --> 01:14:23,960
Speaker 1: eventually a storm strikes. I guess this is the nothing

1362
01:14:24,240 --> 01:14:26,720
Speaker 1: A Treyu and Falcore encounter the Nothing. It's like a

1363
01:14:26,760 --> 01:14:30,080
Speaker 1: storm and it knocks a tray You off of Falcour's back.

1364
01:14:30,160 --> 01:14:34,840
Speaker 1: He falls into the ocean. And in this scene there

1365
01:14:34,920 --> 01:14:37,519
Speaker 1: is suddenly a storm in the real world as well,

1366
01:14:37,560 --> 01:14:39,920
Speaker 1: and it blows the windows open on the attic of

1367
01:14:39,920 --> 01:14:43,280
Speaker 1: the school, so Bastian has to go like refasten them

1368
01:14:43,320 --> 01:14:46,280
Speaker 1: and then keep reading. And in Fantasia, a trey You

1369
01:14:46,479 --> 01:14:49,720
Speaker 1: is washed ashore on a desolate rocky beach with these

1370
01:14:49,800 --> 01:14:54,439
Speaker 1: great stone ruins in the background, and he encounters the

1371
01:14:54,600 --> 01:14:57,360
Speaker 1: rock Biters. So we're full circle again. Rock Biter was

1372
01:14:57,360 --> 01:15:00,120
Speaker 1: in one of the earliest scenes in the movie, and

1373
01:15:00,200 --> 01:15:04,120
Speaker 1: we learned from him that the Rockbiter couldn't protect his friends.

1374
01:15:04,160 --> 01:15:08,080
Speaker 1: He's looking at his big, strong, rocky hands but saying

1375
01:15:08,080 --> 01:15:11,240
Speaker 1: how even with these hands holding onto his friends, he

1376
01:15:11,280 --> 01:15:13,439
Speaker 1: couldn't hold them back from the nothing and they just

1377
01:15:13,479 --> 01:15:16,639
Speaker 1: fell away into it and now they no longer exist. Yeah,

1378
01:15:16,640 --> 01:15:19,679
Speaker 1: another absolute heart wrencher. So it's a real dark Knight

1379
01:15:19,720 --> 01:15:21,600
Speaker 1: of the Soul scene. A tray You has lost the

1380
01:15:21,800 --> 01:15:24,880
Speaker 1: r N that fell off when he fell into the sea.

1381
01:15:24,960 --> 01:15:28,400
Speaker 1: He's lost falcore. Everything seems hopeless, that nothing is coming.

1382
01:15:28,760 --> 01:15:31,320
Speaker 1: The Rockbiter says he wants to surrender and let the

1383
01:15:31,400 --> 01:15:35,599
Speaker 1: nothing take him. And then a trey walks into the

1384
01:15:35,680 --> 01:15:38,080
Speaker 1: ruins of a city. It seems to be a temple

1385
01:15:38,120 --> 01:15:41,320
Speaker 1: of some sort where he sees paintings of scenes from

1386
01:15:41,360 --> 01:15:44,280
Speaker 1: the adventure. He just went on all of the same characters,

1387
01:15:45,000 --> 01:15:47,080
Speaker 1: making you wonder kind of like, wait, was all of

1388
01:15:47,120 --> 01:15:51,919
Speaker 1: this foretold? And then there's the encounter with the Gomork. Finally,

1389
01:15:52,080 --> 01:15:54,800
Speaker 1: a Trey You and the Gomork come face to face,

1390
01:15:54,840 --> 01:15:58,439
Speaker 1: and the Gomork is so scary. Oh yeah, absolutely, this

1391
01:15:58,600 --> 01:16:02,160
Speaker 1: is this great wolf there in the shadows, with its

1392
01:16:02,200 --> 01:16:06,240
Speaker 1: gleaming green eyes and its ferocious mauve teeth and this

1393
01:16:06,439 --> 01:16:11,320
Speaker 1: grumbling voice. Yeah, absolutely perfect. And rewatching with my son,

1394
01:16:11,400 --> 01:16:13,960
Speaker 1: it's like he's still he's almost eleven, and he still

1395
01:16:13,960 --> 01:16:17,200
Speaker 1: wouldn't really look this scene dead in the like dead on.

1396
01:16:17,400 --> 01:16:19,600
Speaker 1: You know, it's kind of like looking off to the

1397
01:16:19,600 --> 01:16:22,559
Speaker 1: side a little bit because it's it's pretty podent. So

1398
01:16:22,600 --> 01:16:25,200
Speaker 1: I know you wanted to discuss differences between the scene

1399
01:16:25,360 --> 01:16:27,240
Speaker 1: in the movie in the book. First, I guess I'll

1400
01:16:27,280 --> 01:16:29,040
Speaker 1: just describe it in the movie. Is that how you

1401
01:16:29,040 --> 01:16:31,760
Speaker 1: want to be? Okay? So in the movie, the Comork says,

1402
01:16:32,240 --> 01:16:34,840
Speaker 1: you know, I am the Gomork, you can be my

1403
01:16:34,920 --> 01:16:37,800
Speaker 1: last victim, and a Trey You says, well, I won't

1404
01:16:37,840 --> 01:16:40,640
Speaker 1: go down easy because I'm a brave warrior, and the

1405
01:16:40,680 --> 01:16:43,240
Speaker 1: Gomork says, well, if you're a brave warrior, then fight

1406
01:16:43,320 --> 01:16:46,080
Speaker 1: the nothing, and a trey you says, I can't fight

1407
01:16:46,160 --> 01:16:49,599
Speaker 1: the nothing. He wants to know why is Fantasia dying?

1408
01:16:49,680 --> 01:16:53,479
Speaker 1: Where is the nothing coming from? And Gamork explains Gamork

1409
01:16:53,520 --> 01:16:56,799
Speaker 1: actually knows. He says, because people have begun to lose

1410
01:16:56,880 --> 01:17:00,880
Speaker 1: their hopes and dreams. The nothing is the emptiness that

1411
01:17:01,120 --> 01:17:05,840
Speaker 1: is left, despair destroying this world. And Goamurk has been

1412
01:17:05,880 --> 01:17:09,920
Speaker 1: trying to help the nothing because people who have no

1413
01:17:10,120 --> 01:17:14,839
Speaker 1: hopes are easier to control, and whoever can control them

1414
01:17:14,960 --> 01:17:18,639
Speaker 1: has power. Now I don't know if this is different

1415
01:17:18,680 --> 01:17:20,640
Speaker 1: in the book, but I think this line from the

1416
01:17:20,680 --> 01:17:24,920
Speaker 1: Goamurk about how people who have no hopes and just

1417
01:17:25,000 --> 01:17:28,479
Speaker 1: generally I think our cynical is what he's sort of portraying,

1418
01:17:29,240 --> 01:17:32,599
Speaker 1: are easier to control. I think that is actually truer

1419
01:17:32,720 --> 01:17:35,679
Speaker 1: and much more profound than you might notice at first,

1420
01:17:35,720 --> 01:17:38,280
Speaker 1: because it can easily sound like just boilerplate kind of

1421
01:17:38,320 --> 01:17:42,320
Speaker 1: positivity about life, hope is good, etc. But specifically the

1422
01:17:42,400 --> 01:17:45,639
Speaker 1: claim that people who have no hopes and dreams are

1423
01:17:45,720 --> 01:17:48,559
Speaker 1: easier to control, I think that is quite true and

1424
01:17:48,640 --> 01:17:52,720
Speaker 1: by no means obvious, because many people behave as if

1425
01:17:52,760 --> 01:17:58,080
Speaker 1: they believe cynicism is actually an empowering type of wisdom,

1426
01:17:58,200 --> 01:18:01,559
Speaker 1: like believing in nothing, hoping for nothing, trusting and nothing

1427
01:18:02,240 --> 01:18:05,120
Speaker 1: makes a person smarter than everybody else around them and

1428
01:18:05,280 --> 01:18:08,240
Speaker 1: harder to control. You hear a million different versions of this.

1429
01:18:08,400 --> 01:18:11,080
Speaker 1: The person who says, you know, oh, I don't believe anything.

1430
01:18:11,080 --> 01:18:13,040
Speaker 1: Anybody says I don't you know, oh I don't believe

1431
01:18:13,040 --> 01:18:15,320
Speaker 1: any politician. They're all the same, or whatever. You know.

1432
01:18:15,360 --> 01:18:18,000
Speaker 1: There's a million versions of looking at the world this way.

1433
01:18:19,200 --> 01:18:22,120
Speaker 1: So some people think that makes them, you know, smarter,

1434
01:18:22,320 --> 01:18:25,360
Speaker 1: harder to control. But I think exactly the opposite is true.

1435
01:18:25,400 --> 01:18:29,320
Speaker 1: To embrace that kind of cynicism means you end up

1436
01:18:29,320 --> 01:18:33,680
Speaker 1: with no real power of discernment. You disarm yourself of

1437
01:18:34,840 --> 01:18:37,880
Speaker 1: one of the most powerful armaments you have mentally, the

1438
01:18:38,000 --> 01:18:41,960
Speaker 1: ability to discern truth from falsehood, and you end up

1439
01:18:41,960 --> 01:18:44,280
Speaker 1: with no real agency in the world. I think this

1440
01:18:44,320 --> 01:18:47,760
Speaker 1: type of cynicism not only leads to but is in

1441
01:18:47,800 --> 01:18:51,960
Speaker 1: itself actually a form of gullibility. And this is not

1442
01:18:52,080 --> 01:18:55,480
Speaker 1: obvious too. Many lots of people think they make themselves

1443
01:18:55,560 --> 01:19:00,679
Speaker 1: more powerful and more autonomous and more insightful by being cynical,

1444
01:19:01,200 --> 01:19:04,200
Speaker 1: but exactly. The opposite is true. It is by having

1445
01:19:04,479 --> 01:19:08,240
Speaker 1: hopes and imagination and the ability to put your trust

1446
01:19:08,320 --> 01:19:12,320
Speaker 1: in good things that you become empowered to affect the world,

1447
01:19:12,479 --> 01:19:16,879
Speaker 1: and more than that, that you have integrity in yourself. Absolutely,

1448
01:19:16,920 --> 01:19:19,400
Speaker 1: I think that's a dead on. Yeah, And as I'll

1449
01:19:19,439 --> 01:19:22,120
Speaker 1: discuss in just a minute here, I mean I think

1450
01:19:22,240 --> 01:19:24,840
Speaker 1: all of that is present in the text as well,

1451
01:19:24,880 --> 01:19:26,599
Speaker 1: and that ultimately in the film they do a nice

1452
01:19:26,680 --> 01:19:30,400
Speaker 1: job of sort of condensing it down and getting it

1453
01:19:30,439 --> 01:19:32,280
Speaker 1: on the screen in a way that you can easily

1454
01:19:32,320 --> 01:19:35,439
Speaker 1: absorb in this ultimately brief conversation, but a conversation that

1455
01:19:35,560 --> 01:19:37,600
Speaker 1: is still kind of in many ways kind of the

1456
01:19:37,640 --> 01:19:41,479
Speaker 1: heart of the conflict. Yeah. So I found the scene

1457
01:19:41,479 --> 01:19:44,920
Speaker 1: in the movie on rewatching quite powerful, kind of gave

1458
01:19:44,920 --> 01:19:50,160
Speaker 1: me goose bumps and really profound. But anyway, so coming

1459
01:19:50,200 --> 01:19:53,160
Speaker 1: back to like how it actually plays out in the conversation,

1460
01:19:53,200 --> 01:19:56,599
Speaker 1: Gamork reveals, Okay, so he's serving the power of the Nothing.

1461
01:19:56,680 --> 01:19:59,160
Speaker 1: He is its servant, and he was sent to kill

1462
01:19:59,240 --> 01:20:01,800
Speaker 1: the only one who stopped the Nothing, a tray you

1463
01:20:02,280 --> 01:20:04,439
Speaker 1: and a trey You says Okay, well, if we're both

1464
01:20:04,479 --> 01:20:07,040
Speaker 1: about to die because of the Nothing anyway, then I

1465
01:20:07,040 --> 01:20:09,800
Speaker 1: would like to die fighting. I am atray you so

1466
01:20:10,040 --> 01:20:13,360
Speaker 1: and Gomork attacks, so they fight briefly, but Atray you

1467
01:20:13,640 --> 01:20:17,600
Speaker 1: kills Gomork with his blade. Yeah, and great sequence. And

1468
01:20:17,680 --> 01:20:21,360
Speaker 1: again it always gives me chill bumps to rewatch that scene.

1469
01:20:21,880 --> 01:20:23,920
Speaker 1: Now in the book, Yeah, it has very much the

1470
01:20:23,960 --> 01:20:26,080
Speaker 1: same energy, just a little more drawn out and provides

1471
01:20:26,080 --> 01:20:28,800
Speaker 1: a little bit more detail on sort of the thesis statement. Here,

1472
01:20:30,160 --> 01:20:32,160
Speaker 1: it's still a pivotal scene in which the threat to

1473
01:20:32,240 --> 01:20:35,640
Speaker 1: our world in Fantasia is clearly laid out, and we

1474
01:20:35,760 --> 01:20:38,280
Speaker 1: learn about the Nothing, the motivations of the power behind

1475
01:20:38,280 --> 01:20:41,360
Speaker 1: the Nothing, and this strange creature known as the Comork.

1476
01:20:41,760 --> 01:20:43,280
Speaker 1: And this is a section of the book that I've

1477
01:20:43,280 --> 01:20:46,240
Speaker 1: gone back and reread in isolation on more than one

1478
01:20:46,280 --> 01:20:49,920
Speaker 1: occasion because it's, yeah, it's really good. So just just

1479
01:20:49,960 --> 01:20:51,439
Speaker 1: to highlight some of the things that are different, I'm

1480
01:20:51,439 --> 01:20:53,559
Speaker 1: going to read a couple of passages as well. In

1481
01:20:53,640 --> 01:20:56,720
Speaker 1: the book, the Gomork is chained and the location the

1482
01:20:56,800 --> 01:21:00,680
Speaker 1: ruined city is spook City, the land of Ghosts. The

1483
01:21:00,720 --> 01:21:05,400
Speaker 1: Comoric is described as a werewolf, and also the Comork

1484
01:21:05,560 --> 01:21:08,719
Speaker 1: is weak and starving in the sequence, and he expects

1485
01:21:08,760 --> 01:21:12,240
Speaker 1: to die before the Nothing arrives and consumes him and

1486
01:21:12,320 --> 01:21:15,599
Speaker 1: seems to believe that this is far preferable. He cannot

1487
01:21:15,600 --> 01:21:18,719
Speaker 1: bite through the chain because he was chained here by Gaya,

1488
01:21:18,840 --> 01:21:21,760
Speaker 1: the Dark princess who gave up hope and leaped into

1489
01:21:21,760 --> 01:21:25,280
Speaker 1: the Nothing with her people after chaining him. And then

1490
01:21:25,880 --> 01:21:28,360
Speaker 1: he talks a bit more about the nature of werewolves

1491
01:21:28,960 --> 01:21:31,960
Speaker 1: and reveals more about his own past. He says, you know,

1492
01:21:32,120 --> 01:21:35,559
Speaker 1: only Fantastica. It's called Fantastica in the book is supposed

1493
01:21:35,600 --> 01:21:39,479
Speaker 1: to Fantasia. There are other worlds, the world of humans,

1494
01:21:39,520 --> 01:21:42,439
Speaker 1: for instance, but there are creatures who have no world

1495
01:21:42,479 --> 01:21:44,680
Speaker 1: of their own, but are able to go in and

1496
01:21:44,760 --> 01:21:47,880
Speaker 1: out of many worlds. I am one of those. In

1497
01:21:47,920 --> 01:21:50,360
Speaker 1: the human world, I appear in human form, but I

1498
01:21:50,400 --> 01:21:53,600
Speaker 1: am not human. And in Fantastica, I take on a

1499
01:21:53,680 --> 01:21:57,559
Speaker 1: fantastic in form, but I'm not one of you. Ooh,

1500
01:21:58,560 --> 01:22:02,120
Speaker 1: that is creepy. Yeah, almost kind of like you know,

1501
01:22:02,280 --> 01:22:04,639
Speaker 1: Dark Tower vibes to this guy. You know, he's almost

1502
01:22:04,680 --> 01:22:06,920
Speaker 1: like some sort of a Randolph Flag kind of a character.

1503
01:22:08,680 --> 01:22:11,160
Speaker 1: He goes on to reveal that humans who are consumed

1504
01:22:11,240 --> 01:22:14,600
Speaker 1: by the Nothing, they don't just vanish, They are transported

1505
01:22:14,640 --> 01:22:18,559
Speaker 1: to the human world as lies. The comarc says, quote,

1506
01:22:18,760 --> 01:22:21,080
Speaker 1: you ask me what you will be there? But what

1507
01:22:21,200 --> 01:22:25,919
Speaker 1: are you here? What are you creatures of fantastica, dreams,

1508
01:22:26,040 --> 01:22:30,120
Speaker 1: poetic inventions, characters in a never ending story. Do you

1509
01:22:30,160 --> 01:22:33,000
Speaker 1: think you're real? Well? Yes, here in your world you are.

1510
01:22:33,120 --> 01:22:35,760
Speaker 1: But when you've been through the Nothing, you won't be

1511
01:22:35,840 --> 01:22:40,200
Speaker 1: real anymore. You'll be unrecognizable and you'll be in another world.

1512
01:22:40,680 --> 01:22:44,520
Speaker 1: In that world, you Fantasticans won't be anything like yourselves.

1513
01:22:44,880 --> 01:22:47,639
Speaker 1: You will bring delusion and madness into the human world.

1514
01:22:48,240 --> 01:22:50,600
Speaker 1: Tell me, Sonny, what do you suppose will become of

1515
01:22:50,600 --> 01:22:53,160
Speaker 1: all the spook City folks who have jumped into the Nothing.

1516
01:22:53,600 --> 01:22:56,400
Speaker 1: They will become delusions in the minds of human beings.

1517
01:22:56,840 --> 01:23:00,679
Speaker 1: Fears where there is nothing to fear, desires for vainful things,

1518
01:23:01,120 --> 01:23:07,040
Speaker 1: despairing thoughts where there is no reason to despair. Wow. Yeah, So,

1519
01:23:07,080 --> 01:23:10,880
Speaker 1: in short, the fantastic ins or Fantasians that jump into

1520
01:23:10,880 --> 01:23:14,080
Speaker 1: the Nothing will become lies. And that's also related that

1521
01:23:14,160 --> 01:23:17,880
Speaker 1: humans hate Fantasia or Fantastica and everything that comes from it,

1522
01:23:18,080 --> 01:23:20,519
Speaker 1: so they want to destroy it, though in destroying it,

1523
01:23:20,640 --> 01:23:23,160
Speaker 1: they are only flooding their own world with more fear

1524
01:23:23,200 --> 01:23:26,280
Speaker 1: and delusion. In this section is also mentioned again that's

1525
01:23:26,280 --> 01:23:28,599
Speaker 1: staring into the nothing is like feeling as if you're

1526
01:23:28,600 --> 01:23:33,120
Speaker 1: going blind. And also in this sequence, in the Great

1527
01:23:33,160 --> 01:23:35,639
Speaker 1: Film sequence, the Gomork mentions that he serves the powers

1528
01:23:35,680 --> 01:23:39,320
Speaker 1: behind the Nothing, and in the book this power is

1529
01:23:39,320 --> 01:23:43,639
Speaker 1: given a name, the Manipulators, and the gomorkh says quote,

1530
01:23:43,920 --> 01:23:46,439
Speaker 1: when it comes to controlling human beings, there is no

1531
01:23:46,520 --> 01:23:51,120
Speaker 1: better instrument than lies, because you see, humans live by beliefs,

1532
01:23:51,560 --> 01:23:55,799
Speaker 1: and beliefs can be manipulated. The power to manipulate beliefs

1533
01:23:55,880 --> 01:23:59,080
Speaker 1: is the only thing that counts. That's why I cited

1534
01:23:59,080 --> 01:24:02,040
Speaker 1: with the powerful and serve them, because I wanted to

1535
01:24:02,080 --> 01:24:04,960
Speaker 1: share their power. And then the Gomork taunts a tray

1536
01:24:05,000 --> 01:24:07,520
Speaker 1: you about the sort of lie he may be transformed

1537
01:24:07,560 --> 01:24:10,759
Speaker 1: into when the Nothing takes him and tells him quote,

1538
01:24:10,960 --> 01:24:13,599
Speaker 1: the human world is full of weak minded people who

1539
01:24:13,680 --> 01:24:16,479
Speaker 1: think they're as clever as can be, and are convinced

1540
01:24:16,520 --> 01:24:20,280
Speaker 1: that it's terribly important to persuade even the children that

1541
01:24:20,400 --> 01:24:23,840
Speaker 1: Fantastica doesn't exist. Maybe they will be able to make

1542
01:24:23,880 --> 01:24:26,400
Speaker 1: good use out of you. And so at this point

1543
01:24:26,439 --> 01:24:29,240
Speaker 1: the Gomork relates his mission. He tells how he was

1544
01:24:29,320 --> 01:24:31,639
Speaker 1: captured by the Dark Princess and never got to find

1545
01:24:31,640 --> 01:24:34,880
Speaker 1: a tray you. Matreo asked him why, like, why are

1546
01:24:34,920 --> 01:24:37,080
Speaker 1: you so he will? Why are you so full of hate?

1547
01:24:37,120 --> 01:24:39,839
Speaker 1: And the Gomork says, because you creatures had a world

1548
01:24:40,120 --> 01:24:43,080
Speaker 1: and I didn't, again touching on this idea that the

1549
01:24:43,120 --> 01:24:47,160
Speaker 1: Gomork is a creature of the between, that he has

1550
01:24:47,200 --> 01:24:50,280
Speaker 1: one form in our world, one form in Fantasia, but

1551
01:24:50,360 --> 01:24:52,479
Speaker 1: he is not a denizen of it either, And then

1552
01:24:52,479 --> 01:24:55,320
Speaker 1: in the final moments of this whole sequence plays out

1553
01:24:55,400 --> 01:24:58,200
Speaker 1: much like in the film, except in the book, a

1554
01:24:58,280 --> 01:25:01,559
Speaker 1: Trayu's leg is chomped by the Great Wolf and so

1555
01:25:01,680 --> 01:25:05,000
Speaker 1: he is like grievously wounded in the process as well,

1556
01:25:05,360 --> 01:25:07,400
Speaker 1: and is like seems like he's going to be too

1557
01:25:07,400 --> 01:25:10,160
Speaker 1: slow to escape than nothing. But anyway, like like I

1558
01:25:10,240 --> 01:25:12,320
Speaker 1: like I was saying, Like, the the ideas that are

1559
01:25:12,479 --> 01:25:17,799
Speaker 1: more expressly presented in the book very much match exactly

1560
01:25:17,800 --> 01:25:20,360
Speaker 1: what you're talking about with your interpretation of the scene

1561
01:25:20,360 --> 01:25:24,880
Speaker 1: in the movie. Yeah, So the Mark serves powerful manipulators

1562
01:25:24,880 --> 01:25:27,920
Speaker 1: who want to control people, and they do that by

1563
01:25:27,960 --> 01:25:33,240
Speaker 1: militating against hope and imagination and trust and filling the

1564
01:25:33,280 --> 01:25:37,640
Speaker 1: world with malicious lies. Yeah, it's a powerful vision of

1565
01:25:37,640 --> 01:25:43,280
Speaker 1: a sort of meta real conflict. Yeah. One thing that

1566
01:25:43,400 --> 01:25:45,840
Speaker 1: is interesting, you know in the book too, is that

1567
01:25:46,479 --> 01:25:48,519
Speaker 1: at this point in the book you are presented with

1568
01:25:48,560 --> 01:25:53,360
Speaker 1: this like greater understanding of the threat facing Fantasia, but

1569
01:25:53,439 --> 01:25:56,479
Speaker 1: it's ultimately defeated, bretit rather swiftly by like halfway through

1570
01:25:56,520 --> 01:25:59,519
Speaker 1: the book, so like the manipulators never really are an

1571
01:25:59,520 --> 01:26:01,559
Speaker 1: issue again, and they're not really mentioned again later in

1572
01:26:01,560 --> 01:26:05,400
Speaker 1: the book. So there, I guess firmly dealt with. But

1573
01:26:05,439 --> 01:26:07,960
Speaker 1: it left me wanting more, which again is it's like

1574
01:26:08,000 --> 01:26:09,760
Speaker 1: that's one of the great things about any work, and

1575
01:26:09,800 --> 01:26:12,599
Speaker 1: it's actually something that Michael Into plays with a lot

1576
01:26:12,600 --> 01:26:14,639
Speaker 1: in the book. There are always these little moments where

1577
01:26:15,000 --> 01:26:16,800
Speaker 1: it sounds like he's about to go off on another

1578
01:26:16,880 --> 01:26:19,960
Speaker 1: tangent relating like what happened to secondary characters when they

1579
01:26:20,040 --> 01:26:22,360
Speaker 1: left the main events of the story, and he says,

1580
01:26:22,640 --> 01:26:24,960
Speaker 1: but that is another story will be told another time,

1581
01:26:25,720 --> 01:26:28,320
Speaker 1: which I think adds this feeling of the limitless nature

1582
01:26:28,479 --> 01:26:32,080
Speaker 1: of Phantasia, that it has no limits because the limits

1583
01:26:32,120 --> 01:26:35,479
Speaker 1: are just the limits of human imagination, which is almost

1584
01:26:35,479 --> 01:26:38,519
Speaker 1: beyond limit. Okay, Well, after this conflict, the story is

1585
01:26:38,560 --> 01:26:42,920
Speaker 1: not fully wrapped up ultimately a tray You and Falcor

1586
01:26:43,040 --> 01:26:45,800
Speaker 1: have to find a way to stop the Nothing, which

1587
01:26:46,120 --> 01:26:48,599
Speaker 1: they don't quite know how to do. But Falcor does

1588
01:26:48,680 --> 01:26:50,760
Speaker 1: find the rn that has sunk to the bottom of

1589
01:26:50,800 --> 01:26:53,040
Speaker 1: the ocean. He goes picks it up. He comes in

1590
01:26:53,120 --> 01:26:55,720
Speaker 1: and he rescues a tray You from being consumed by

1591
01:26:55,720 --> 01:26:58,439
Speaker 1: the Nothing, and together they fly through space as the

1592
01:26:58,520 --> 01:27:02,320
Speaker 1: land of Phantasia is literally broken into pieces. The land

1593
01:27:02,320 --> 01:27:08,320
Speaker 1: itself becomes like asteroids floating in the vacuum, and Detrey

1594
01:27:09,000 --> 01:27:10,880
Speaker 1: uses the Oran to find his way back to the

1595
01:27:10,880 --> 01:27:14,520
Speaker 1: Ivory Tower where the Empress is, and there's finally a conversation,

1596
01:27:14,560 --> 01:27:16,800
Speaker 1: a meeting between a tray You and the Empress. A

1597
01:27:16,880 --> 01:27:19,920
Speaker 1: tray You believes he has failed, but then the Empress

1598
01:27:19,960 --> 01:27:23,400
Speaker 1: tells him he hasn't failed. He has brought her the

1599
01:27:23,520 --> 01:27:27,759
Speaker 1: human Child. Though weirdly in the scene I think questionable choice.

1600
01:27:27,760 --> 01:27:30,880
Speaker 1: In the movie they start calling the child the Earthling,

1601
01:27:31,680 --> 01:27:33,880
Speaker 1: which is not a term they've used before. I think

1602
01:27:33,920 --> 01:27:38,400
Speaker 1: that's an odd choice. But anyway, they're talking about the

1603
01:27:38,479 --> 01:27:41,120
Speaker 1: human Child. They say he has suffered with you, he

1604
01:27:41,200 --> 01:27:44,439
Speaker 1: went through everything you went through, and now he's here.

1605
01:27:45,200 --> 01:27:48,120
Speaker 1: But he doesn't realize he's already part of the never

1606
01:27:48,240 --> 01:27:51,479
Speaker 1: ending story. And just as he is sharing your story

1607
01:27:51,479 --> 01:27:54,960
Speaker 1: a tray, you others are sharing his. So here we're

1608
01:27:55,000 --> 01:27:58,320
Speaker 1: being brought into into the narrative as well. And they

1609
01:27:58,360 --> 01:27:59,960
Speaker 1: say that, you know, they were with him when he

1610
01:28:00,080 --> 01:28:02,320
Speaker 1: ran from the bullies, when he found the bookstore and

1611
01:28:02,400 --> 01:28:05,160
Speaker 1: all that. But of course, Bastian we come out to

1612
01:28:05,360 --> 01:28:07,760
Speaker 1: the real world in the movie and he's freaking out.

1613
01:28:08,160 --> 01:28:10,800
Speaker 1: Is he reading about himself in the book once again?

1614
01:28:11,439 --> 01:28:15,400
Speaker 1: And the Empress explains the boy just has to give

1615
01:28:15,400 --> 01:28:18,120
Speaker 1: her a new name, that's all, and then the nothing

1616
01:28:18,160 --> 01:28:20,360
Speaker 1: would be beaten. It would be so easy for him,

1617
01:28:20,840 --> 01:28:23,920
Speaker 1: but he refuses to believe he really has the power

1618
01:28:24,040 --> 01:28:26,679
Speaker 1: to save her by doing it, so he doesn't do it,

1619
01:28:27,080 --> 01:28:31,120
Speaker 1: and the Empress begs him to save them. Everything's kind

1620
01:28:31,160 --> 01:28:33,719
Speaker 1: of falling down. The tower is crumbling, a tray he falls,

1621
01:28:33,720 --> 01:28:39,240
Speaker 1: he might fall down dead, and Bastition finally overcomes his hesitation.

1622
01:28:39,280 --> 01:28:41,960
Speaker 1: He runs to the window. He throws down the book

1623
01:28:41,960 --> 01:28:44,720
Speaker 1: and he cries out a name into the storm outside,

1624
01:28:44,800 --> 01:28:47,400
Speaker 1: a new name for the Empress. I think we're to

1625
01:28:47,439 --> 01:28:50,559
Speaker 1: understand it's his mother's name, but interestingly, we don't hear

1626
01:28:50,600 --> 01:28:54,559
Speaker 1: what it is it's muffled by the storm. Yeah, it's

1627
01:28:55,280 --> 01:28:58,080
Speaker 1: in the book. It is Moonschild. That's the name he chooses,

1628
01:28:58,160 --> 01:29:00,920
Speaker 1: which I guess is probably not his money's name in

1629
01:29:00,960 --> 01:29:03,799
Speaker 1: the real world. But I was in on this rewatch.

1630
01:29:03,920 --> 01:29:05,800
Speaker 1: I couldn't understand what he was yelling either, and I

1631
01:29:05,840 --> 01:29:08,280
Speaker 1: was like, well, I'm just going to use the subtitles handily,

1632
01:29:08,320 --> 01:29:10,680
Speaker 1: click over the subtitles and see what he's saying. But

1633
01:29:10,880 --> 01:29:14,360
Speaker 1: the subtitles for for the version I was watching, when

1634
01:29:14,439 --> 01:29:17,120
Speaker 1: he yells his mother's name, it's just like it just

1635
01:29:17,120 --> 01:29:21,519
Speaker 1: says yelling, so I guess. But as I leaned into it,

1636
01:29:21,520 --> 01:29:23,480
Speaker 1: it's like, I think I can hear him yelling Moonschild.

1637
01:29:23,520 --> 01:29:26,400
Speaker 1: I think he's yelling Moonchild, but it's not distinct. And

1638
01:29:26,640 --> 01:29:31,479
Speaker 1: this does something sort of everything goes dark and we're

1639
01:29:31,640 --> 01:29:35,439
Speaker 1: down to just the Empress, I guess, in Bastion together

1640
01:29:35,479 --> 01:29:37,800
Speaker 1: in this dark environment. The Empress in her hand is

1641
01:29:37,880 --> 01:29:41,160
Speaker 1: holding a single grain of sand that is glowing. She

1642
01:29:41,240 --> 01:29:43,840
Speaker 1: says it's all that remains of her vast empire. But

1643
01:29:44,479 --> 01:29:48,360
Speaker 1: she says Fantasia can be recreated if Bastion wishes. All

1644
01:29:48,400 --> 01:29:51,120
Speaker 1: he has to do is wish for it, and he says,

1645
01:29:51,120 --> 01:29:53,240
Speaker 1: how many wishes do I get? And she says, as

1646
01:29:53,280 --> 01:29:56,000
Speaker 1: many as you want. Yeah, this becomes crucial in the

1647
01:29:56,000 --> 01:29:58,160
Speaker 1: rest of the novel because we've learned that with each

1648
01:29:58,200 --> 01:30:00,960
Speaker 1: wish he makes, he loses part of his memory of

1649
01:30:01,000 --> 01:30:04,240
Speaker 1: his life in the real world. I mean, I guess

1650
01:30:04,320 --> 01:30:06,400
Speaker 1: that's a that's a different kind of story, with a

1651
01:30:06,439 --> 01:30:10,000
Speaker 1: new kind of complexity, But it is a oh, I'm

1652
01:30:10,040 --> 01:30:13,679
Speaker 1: gonna say, a powerfully emotional ending for this, this story

1653
01:30:13,760 --> 01:30:18,280
Speaker 1: about the joys and potency of childhood imagination. Uh, you know,

1654
01:30:18,360 --> 01:30:25,080
Speaker 1: she's teaching him how to change everything with creativity. Yeah. Absolutely,

1655
01:30:25,400 --> 01:30:28,439
Speaker 1: I mean it's ultimately a real and the real boost

1656
01:30:28,520 --> 01:30:31,320
Speaker 1: of a story, you know, the power of of of

1657
01:30:31,720 --> 01:30:35,520
Speaker 1: creative thought, the power of the imagination, the power of

1658
01:30:35,800 --> 01:30:39,439
Speaker 1: actual childhood in one's inner childhood. And then of course

1659
01:30:39,560 --> 01:30:42,640
Speaker 1: we get we get this very notable scene, right, we

1660
01:30:42,720 --> 01:30:46,479
Speaker 1: get one more great flying scene to end everything out. Yeah. Well, first,

1661
01:30:46,520 --> 01:30:51,280
Speaker 1: so Bastion himself rides Falcore. He imagines himself writing Falcore.

1662
01:30:51,280 --> 01:30:54,000
Speaker 1: So Falcore is back, and the Rockbiter is back, and

1663
01:30:54,120 --> 01:30:56,439
Speaker 1: a tray you and Artex and all the characters are

1664
01:30:56,439 --> 01:30:59,680
Speaker 1: restored just by him imagining them. They are now no

1665
01:30:59,760 --> 01:31:01,800
Speaker 1: longer or destroyed by the Nothing. Now they're back to

1666
01:31:01,880 --> 01:31:04,519
Speaker 1: life again. They're carrying on with their lives. It's like

1667
01:31:04,560 --> 01:31:08,000
Speaker 1: the Nothing never was. But then, of course, the final

1668
01:31:08,240 --> 01:31:12,439
Speaker 1: merger of the two worlds happens when Bastion rides Falcour

1669
01:31:12,600 --> 01:31:16,480
Speaker 1: out into the real world over the streets and terrorizes

1670
01:31:16,520 --> 01:31:19,080
Speaker 1: his bullies like the ones who beat him up earlier,

1671
01:31:19,320 --> 01:31:22,920
Speaker 1: and Falcour chases them into the dumpster. Doesn't feel too

1672
01:31:23,000 --> 01:31:25,479
Speaker 1: vengeful because he doesn't actually hurt them, and Falcore is

1673
01:31:25,520 --> 01:31:28,360
Speaker 1: not going to hurt anybody. Falcour's sweet. It's just they

1674
01:31:28,400 --> 01:31:31,160
Speaker 1: just get scared. They get a good scare. Yeah, it's

1675
01:31:31,160 --> 01:31:35,080
Speaker 1: a very satisfying scene. I don't think this doesn't happen

1676
01:31:35,120 --> 01:31:37,640
Speaker 1: in the book. I'm pretty sure something doesn't happen in

1677
01:31:37,640 --> 01:31:40,800
Speaker 1: the book. It kind of runs completely opposite of the

1678
01:31:41,160 --> 01:31:44,400
Speaker 1: whole world building exercise that Enda is doing here. But

1679
01:31:45,280 --> 01:31:47,600
Speaker 1: I cannot fault at all for just the pure cinematic

1680
01:31:47,640 --> 01:31:50,160
Speaker 1: experience of it, and also having watched it with my

1681
01:31:50,200 --> 01:31:52,680
Speaker 1: son at two different ages already, Like, this is a

1682
01:31:52,720 --> 01:31:57,160
Speaker 1: real satisfying sequence. Kids love it, so I can tell

1683
01:31:57,200 --> 01:31:59,840
Speaker 1: exactly why I loved this movie as a child. But

1684
01:32:00,080 --> 01:32:02,559
Speaker 1: I loved it as an adult too. This one holds

1685
01:32:02,600 --> 01:32:06,360
Speaker 1: up great. I think it's it's a beautiful movie, absolutely

1686
01:32:06,479 --> 01:32:08,680
Speaker 1: and uh yeah, And I encourage everyone out there if

1687
01:32:08,720 --> 01:32:09,960
Speaker 1: you if you're a fan of this film and you

1688
01:32:09,960 --> 01:32:14,520
Speaker 1: haven't read Michael Linda's novel, pick it up like because it's,

1689
01:32:14,560 --> 01:32:16,120
Speaker 1: like I say, the first half of it is going

1690
01:32:16,120 --> 01:32:19,200
Speaker 1: to give you a great literary version of what you've

1691
01:32:19,240 --> 01:32:21,639
Speaker 1: grown to love on screen. And then the second half

1692
01:32:21,640 --> 01:32:23,240
Speaker 1: of the book kind of goes in a slightly different

1693
01:32:23,280 --> 01:32:27,880
Speaker 1: direction but is full of wonderful adventures and strange creatures

1694
01:32:27,920 --> 01:32:32,080
Speaker 1: and also lots of thought provoking material. So highly recommend

1695
01:32:32,080 --> 01:32:34,080
Speaker 1: both of them. All Right, Well, on that note, I

1696
01:32:34,080 --> 01:32:36,479
Speaker 1: guess we're going to go and close this episode up.

1697
01:32:37,040 --> 01:32:40,679
Speaker 1: We're gonna enclose the never Ending story Book for this episode,

1698
01:32:40,800 --> 01:32:43,639
Speaker 1: but we'll be back in the future. Just a reminder

1699
01:32:43,720 --> 01:32:46,080
Speaker 1: that we're primarily a science podcast with core episodes on

1700
01:32:46,280 --> 01:32:48,760
Speaker 1: Tuesdays and Thursdays, but on Fridays we set aside most

1701
01:32:48,760 --> 01:32:51,040
Speaker 1: serious concerns and just talk about a weird film on

1702
01:32:51,160 --> 01:32:53,519
Speaker 1: Weird House Cinema. If you want to see a full

1703
01:32:53,560 --> 01:32:55,800
Speaker 1: list of the movies that we've covered on the show,

1704
01:32:56,280 --> 01:32:57,760
Speaker 1: you can go to a couple of places. I have

1705
01:32:57,840 --> 01:32:59,720
Speaker 1: a blog at some new to music dot com where

1706
01:32:59,720 --> 01:33:02,360
Speaker 1: I'm log about the film's recovering, and like with this film,

1707
01:33:02,439 --> 01:33:05,719
Speaker 1: I'll probably put in a bunch of like embedded examples

1708
01:33:05,760 --> 01:33:08,080
Speaker 1: of some of the music that I talked about here

1709
01:33:08,120 --> 01:33:10,040
Speaker 1: if you want to go check that out. Also include

1710
01:33:10,040 --> 01:33:13,640
Speaker 1: a link for the artwork that sort of thing. But

1711
01:33:13,680 --> 01:33:16,240
Speaker 1: also if you've used letterbox dot com, it's L T

1712
01:33:16,360 --> 01:33:18,840
Speaker 1: T E R boxd dot com. Well, we have a

1713
01:33:18,880 --> 01:33:21,720
Speaker 1: profile on there Weirdhouse, and if you go there you'll

1714
01:33:21,720 --> 01:33:23,479
Speaker 1: find a list of all the movies we've covered, and

1715
01:33:23,680 --> 01:33:28,400
Speaker 1: sometimes there'll be even a preview of what's coming the

1716
01:33:28,520 --> 01:33:32,120
Speaker 1: next week. Huge thanks to our audio producer JJ Posway.

1717
01:33:32,439 --> 01:33:34,120
Speaker 1: If you would like to get in touch with us

1718
01:33:34,200 --> 01:33:36,719
Speaker 1: with feedback on this episode or any other, to suggest

1719
01:33:36,800 --> 01:33:38,840
Speaker 1: a topic for the future, or just to say hello,

1720
01:33:38,920 --> 01:33:41,639
Speaker 1: you can email us at contact at stuff to Blow

1721
01:33:41,720 --> 01:33:50,680
Speaker 1: your Mind dot com. Stuff to Blow Your Mind It's

1722
01:33:50,720 --> 01:33:53,920
Speaker 1: production of iHeartRadio. For more podcasts from My Heart Radio,

1723
01:33:54,160 --> 01:33:57,200
Speaker 1: visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen

1724
01:33:57,320 --> 01:33:58,200
Speaker 1: to your favorite shows.