1 00:00:03,800 --> 00:00:06,160 Speaker 1: Hey Bessies, Hello Sunshine. 2 00:00:06,200 --> 00:00:09,040 Speaker 2: Today on the bright Side, Shana top, the creator of 3 00:00:09,119 --> 00:00:12,000 Speaker 2: the hit Broadway musical Suffs, is here to talk about 4 00:00:12,240 --> 00:00:17,200 Speaker 2: how the suffragist movement inspired her to bring history to life, 5 00:00:17,480 --> 00:00:20,200 Speaker 2: and of course, why these dazzling stories are more important 6 00:00:20,200 --> 00:00:24,720 Speaker 2: now than ever. It's Thursday, December twelfth. I'm Danielle Robe. 7 00:00:24,440 --> 00:00:27,000 Speaker 3: And I'm Smoane Voice, and this is the bright Side 8 00:00:27,000 --> 00:00:29,880 Speaker 3: from Hello Sunshine, a daily show where we come together 9 00:00:29,960 --> 00:00:32,960 Speaker 3: to share women's stories, laugh, learn and brighten your day. 10 00:00:35,320 --> 00:00:38,440 Speaker 2: Siman, Today we're bringing Broadway to the bright Side. 11 00:00:38,479 --> 00:00:39,360 Speaker 1: I'm so excited. 12 00:00:39,880 --> 00:00:42,720 Speaker 3: Oh that is music to my ears. Can we always 13 00:00:42,760 --> 00:00:45,800 Speaker 3: have Broadway on the bright Side please? Shana tab is 14 00:00:45,840 --> 00:00:48,839 Speaker 3: our guest today and she wrote the music, lyrics, and 15 00:00:49,000 --> 00:00:52,479 Speaker 3: book for the Broadway musical Suffs. So talk about a 16 00:00:52,640 --> 00:00:57,440 Speaker 3: triple perhaps even quadruple threat now. Suffs follows the women's 17 00:00:57,440 --> 00:01:00,480 Speaker 3: suffrage movement through the ratification of the Nineteenth Amendment in 18 00:01:00,560 --> 00:01:03,960 Speaker 3: nineteen twenty and Shana's work earned her not one, but 19 00:01:04,080 --> 00:01:07,280 Speaker 3: two Tony Awards this year for Best Original Score and 20 00:01:07,440 --> 00:01:10,600 Speaker 3: Best Book of a Musical. She also originated the role 21 00:01:10,640 --> 00:01:13,200 Speaker 3: of Alice Paul. What are the leaders of the suffrage 22 00:01:13,200 --> 00:01:14,680 Speaker 3: movement in the United. 23 00:01:14,400 --> 00:01:17,520 Speaker 2: States, and even though this musical is rooted in history, 24 00:01:17,600 --> 00:01:21,200 Speaker 2: the themes that Shana explores feel even more relevant today 25 00:01:21,280 --> 00:01:23,399 Speaker 2: than ever before, especially in the wake of such a 26 00:01:23,400 --> 00:01:27,080 Speaker 2: pivotal election. So Shana joins us from New York, where 27 00:01:27,080 --> 00:01:29,919 Speaker 2: she's still performing daily in Stuff. So don't be surprised 28 00:01:29,959 --> 00:01:32,000 Speaker 2: if you catch a little bit of that iconic traffic 29 00:01:32,040 --> 00:01:33,600 Speaker 2: noise in the background. 30 00:01:33,680 --> 00:01:36,160 Speaker 1: Shana's tabb Welcome to the bright Side. 31 00:01:36,640 --> 00:01:39,240 Speaker 4: Hi, thank you so much for having me, Hi, Hi, Hi. 32 00:01:39,280 --> 00:01:41,680 Speaker 2: I was just telling you we're big Stuffs fans over here, 33 00:01:41,720 --> 00:01:45,280 Speaker 2: so we're really excited to chat with you about your musical. 34 00:01:46,160 --> 00:01:48,760 Speaker 2: It follows the fight for the women's right to vote 35 00:01:48,800 --> 00:01:52,440 Speaker 2: in America, and I'm curious how the themes of the 36 00:01:52,520 --> 00:01:55,760 Speaker 2: musical resonate with you after coming off such a major election. 37 00:01:56,280 --> 00:01:59,240 Speaker 4: You know, at Stuff's, we had a show on election night, 38 00:01:59,440 --> 00:02:03,240 Speaker 4: and we had a show the afternoon after. And the 39 00:02:03,240 --> 00:02:07,200 Speaker 4: theater is a place where people come to feel things 40 00:02:07,240 --> 00:02:11,160 Speaker 4: together out loud, a place where you're allowed to laugh 41 00:02:11,200 --> 00:02:13,880 Speaker 4: and cry in public with others, and I hope we've 42 00:02:13,880 --> 00:02:16,560 Speaker 4: been providing a place for people to do that and 43 00:02:16,800 --> 00:02:20,799 Speaker 4: it can give us some sense of hope that we're 44 00:02:20,840 --> 00:02:22,519 Speaker 4: going to make it to another day. We're going to 45 00:02:22,600 --> 00:02:24,200 Speaker 4: keep fighting, We're going to keep marching, We're going to 46 00:02:24,280 --> 00:02:26,480 Speaker 4: keep working for the things that we care about, no 47 00:02:26,560 --> 00:02:27,519 Speaker 4: matter what comes our way. 48 00:02:28,120 --> 00:02:32,600 Speaker 2: It's also it really hones in on the importance of voting, obviously, 49 00:02:32,639 --> 00:02:35,160 Speaker 2: hence the name. Do you feel like the show has 50 00:02:35,200 --> 00:02:37,720 Speaker 2: contributed to the conversation around voting? 51 00:02:39,000 --> 00:02:39,440 Speaker 1: I hope. 52 00:02:39,440 --> 00:02:43,119 Speaker 4: So we've had such amazing audiences for the last eight 53 00:02:43,120 --> 00:02:44,960 Speaker 4: months or however long we've been on Brobably. So far 54 00:02:45,639 --> 00:02:47,920 Speaker 4: on Brably, you get to meet people at the stage 55 00:02:47,919 --> 00:02:50,880 Speaker 4: door after the show, and I've met so many, especially 56 00:02:51,320 --> 00:02:56,400 Speaker 4: multi generational groups, and people have expressed feeling excited about 57 00:02:56,480 --> 00:02:59,160 Speaker 4: voting and feeling sort of a sense of joy around 58 00:02:59,160 --> 00:03:02,640 Speaker 4: it when they understand and how much went into securitying 59 00:03:02,720 --> 00:03:04,359 Speaker 4: that right. I don't know about you, but I didn't 60 00:03:04,400 --> 00:03:07,520 Speaker 4: grow up learning it in school, and I wish I 61 00:03:07,560 --> 00:03:10,280 Speaker 4: had had. Part of my wanting to adapt it into 62 00:03:10,280 --> 00:03:12,800 Speaker 4: a show was wishing I'd had this story as a kid, 63 00:03:12,840 --> 00:03:14,720 Speaker 4: because I know how much it might have inspired me 64 00:03:14,840 --> 00:03:16,200 Speaker 4: to get involved. 65 00:03:16,880 --> 00:03:20,040 Speaker 3: Well, I hear the idea for Stef's germinated from a 66 00:03:20,040 --> 00:03:23,040 Speaker 3: book called Jailed for Freedom, by Doris Stevens, who also 67 00:03:23,080 --> 00:03:25,200 Speaker 3: becomes a character in your show. And I hear that 68 00:03:25,240 --> 00:03:28,280 Speaker 3: you read that book when you were twenty five and 69 00:03:28,320 --> 00:03:30,840 Speaker 3: you were surprised that no one had adapted it into 70 00:03:30,919 --> 00:03:33,919 Speaker 3: a musical before. So take me into the mind of 71 00:03:34,760 --> 00:03:38,440 Speaker 3: Shannon Thabb. You get this book, at what point do 72 00:03:38,480 --> 00:03:41,240 Speaker 3: you realize you are the one who is called to 73 00:03:41,280 --> 00:03:42,680 Speaker 3: bring this story to the stage. 74 00:03:43,640 --> 00:03:45,840 Speaker 4: Well, yes, the book was brought to me by Rachel Sussman, 75 00:03:45,840 --> 00:03:47,760 Speaker 4: who's my good friend and one of our lead producers. 76 00:03:48,440 --> 00:03:50,680 Speaker 4: And I stayed up all night reading it that night, 77 00:03:50,960 --> 00:03:53,280 Speaker 4: and when I turned the page and I saw there's 78 00:03:53,280 --> 00:03:57,040 Speaker 4: a photograph accompanied by Doors's writing of the Silent Sentinel 79 00:03:57,080 --> 00:04:00,200 Speaker 4: protests in nineteen seventeen. For those listening who don't know, 80 00:04:00,280 --> 00:04:03,640 Speaker 4: that was when American women picketed in a line outside 81 00:04:03,640 --> 00:04:07,720 Speaker 4: of the White House, silently holding signs saying how long 82 00:04:07,840 --> 00:04:10,040 Speaker 4: was women wait for liberty? And picketing for the vote 83 00:04:10,080 --> 00:04:13,040 Speaker 4: and pledging to stand there every day until the amendment 84 00:04:13,120 --> 00:04:16,400 Speaker 4: was passed. And this doesn't sound that radical an idea 85 00:04:16,480 --> 00:04:19,680 Speaker 4: now that this was the first time American citizens had 86 00:04:19,800 --> 00:04:24,800 Speaker 4: stood outside the White House in a protest for an issue, 87 00:04:25,440 --> 00:04:28,880 Speaker 4: and seeing that photo you saw like the mighty White 88 00:04:28,880 --> 00:04:31,760 Speaker 4: House looming in the background, and just very small, this 89 00:04:31,960 --> 00:04:33,919 Speaker 4: row of like eight or nine women with their signs. 90 00:04:33,920 --> 00:04:36,680 Speaker 4: It was clearly cold outside, and they had their jackets, 91 00:04:37,000 --> 00:04:40,000 Speaker 4: and that image just spoke to me, just the fact 92 00:04:40,000 --> 00:04:41,560 Speaker 4: that it was just a few of them and the 93 00:04:41,680 --> 00:04:44,320 Speaker 4: mighty halls of power looming behind them, and yet they 94 00:04:44,400 --> 00:04:48,080 Speaker 4: stood there and something about that felt so theatrical. I 95 00:04:48,120 --> 00:04:49,960 Speaker 4: was like, how is this not an iconic photo of 96 00:04:50,000 --> 00:04:53,520 Speaker 4: American history? And it excited me. I was like, Oh, 97 00:04:53,680 --> 00:04:56,839 Speaker 4: I think my knowledge about musical theater and my passion 98 00:04:56,880 --> 00:04:58,880 Speaker 4: for it, I think could hopefully help bring this to 99 00:04:59,560 --> 00:05:00,320 Speaker 4: a new j generation. 100 00:05:01,880 --> 00:05:05,440 Speaker 3: Okay, so how much time passes between that moment and 101 00:05:05,480 --> 00:05:08,480 Speaker 3: then when the curtain goes up first night of Stelfs. 102 00:05:08,800 --> 00:05:12,000 Speaker 4: I mean that was in May twenty fourteen, and we 103 00:05:12,080 --> 00:05:14,920 Speaker 4: opened on Broadway this past April twenty twenty four so 104 00:05:15,000 --> 00:05:18,680 Speaker 4: it was a decade all together, so it took a lot. 105 00:05:18,760 --> 00:05:21,279 Speaker 4: I mean that first conversation between me and Rachel was 106 00:05:21,360 --> 00:05:25,160 Speaker 4: like over coffee, as twenty five year olds with no backing, 107 00:05:25,279 --> 00:05:28,600 Speaker 4: no money, no fancy anything. We were just starting our 108 00:05:28,600 --> 00:05:32,120 Speaker 4: careers and that kind of made its way into the show. 109 00:05:32,400 --> 00:05:34,640 Speaker 4: It was part of how I connected to these characters, 110 00:05:34,680 --> 00:05:36,919 Speaker 4: Alice Paul and Lucy Burns sitting in the basement of 111 00:05:36,920 --> 00:05:40,520 Speaker 4: an office in Washington, DC, with no funding, no nothing, 112 00:05:40,560 --> 00:05:43,680 Speaker 4: no real coalition, yet trying to plan this Women's March 113 00:05:43,720 --> 00:05:47,080 Speaker 4: on Washington in a couple months. Obviously, you know, like 114 00:05:47,120 --> 00:05:50,719 Speaker 4: trying to pass a constitutional amendment is you could say, 115 00:05:50,800 --> 00:05:52,880 Speaker 4: more important and more intense than trying to mount a 116 00:05:52,880 --> 00:05:55,839 Speaker 4: Broadway musical. And yet they were both extremely challenging endeavors 117 00:05:55,960 --> 00:05:58,400 Speaker 4: with a lot of setbacks. So I think to have 118 00:05:59,279 --> 00:06:01,440 Speaker 4: made it all this way, yeah, it took a lot. 119 00:06:01,480 --> 00:06:02,360 Speaker 4: It took a lot of time. 120 00:06:02,800 --> 00:06:06,640 Speaker 3: It's amazing that you worked on this musical for ten years. 121 00:06:07,400 --> 00:06:08,440 Speaker 1: That's a long time. 122 00:06:09,080 --> 00:06:11,520 Speaker 3: I'm just so impressed that you had the grit to 123 00:06:12,040 --> 00:06:13,680 Speaker 3: endure such a long journey. 124 00:06:13,880 --> 00:06:15,080 Speaker 1: What kept you going. 125 00:06:15,400 --> 00:06:20,080 Speaker 4: Really my collaborations, our director, and our lead actors were 126 00:06:20,080 --> 00:06:23,599 Speaker 4: with us this entire time. Especially, I have to shout 127 00:06:23,600 --> 00:06:26,560 Speaker 4: out Jen Kalela, who plays Carrie chat mccatt and Nicki 128 00:06:26,680 --> 00:06:30,800 Speaker 4: m James, who so beautifully portrays Io b Wells. They 129 00:06:31,320 --> 00:06:33,880 Speaker 4: were in it through thick and through thin, through up 130 00:06:33,920 --> 00:06:36,880 Speaker 4: and through down, through a pandemic, through everything else. And 131 00:06:36,920 --> 00:06:39,720 Speaker 4: the fact that these artists I admire up to were 132 00:06:39,760 --> 00:06:42,720 Speaker 4: willing to put their faith and support in this project 133 00:06:43,520 --> 00:06:46,520 Speaker 4: every step of the way gave me that confidence. Was 134 00:06:46,560 --> 00:06:51,560 Speaker 4: really like our group, our sisterhood, stayed strong through all 135 00:06:51,600 --> 00:06:54,360 Speaker 4: of those storms, so that when I was feeling doubtful, 136 00:06:54,400 --> 00:06:56,720 Speaker 4: which was many times. And that's why I often tell 137 00:06:56,880 --> 00:06:59,560 Speaker 4: writers coming up who asked me for advice, I'm like 138 00:06:59,760 --> 00:07:02,520 Speaker 4: may friends, with the doubt, It's going to be there. 139 00:07:02,880 --> 00:07:04,600 Speaker 4: There's no way to get rid of it. You just 140 00:07:04,680 --> 00:07:07,599 Speaker 4: have to learn to tolerate it and not let have 141 00:07:07,680 --> 00:07:08,960 Speaker 4: it be strong enough to make you quit. 142 00:07:09,920 --> 00:07:13,920 Speaker 2: So not all musicals that our period pieces become breakthrough 143 00:07:13,960 --> 00:07:17,040 Speaker 2: shows the way Stef's has. I of course think of 144 00:07:17,080 --> 00:07:20,560 Speaker 2: Hamilton too, like both shows brought history to life in 145 00:07:20,600 --> 00:07:23,960 Speaker 2: a way that made people feel something, made us all 146 00:07:24,040 --> 00:07:27,600 Speaker 2: so engaged and want to watch. And you know, history 147 00:07:27,800 --> 00:07:32,200 Speaker 2: is taught in the past tense as a sequence of events, 148 00:07:32,240 --> 00:07:34,720 Speaker 2: but I think part of your job as a playwright 149 00:07:34,800 --> 00:07:37,320 Speaker 2: is to make us feel the emotion of it all 150 00:07:37,720 --> 00:07:38,800 Speaker 2: and not even think of it. 151 00:07:38,760 --> 00:07:40,200 Speaker 1: As a sequence of events. 152 00:07:40,680 --> 00:07:44,360 Speaker 2: Yeah, how do you even go about transforming historical events 153 00:07:44,400 --> 00:07:47,720 Speaker 2: that you're reading? That can be kind of dry sometimes 154 00:07:48,200 --> 00:07:51,200 Speaker 2: and yeah, turn it into this emotional journey that feels 155 00:07:51,280 --> 00:07:54,040 Speaker 2: alive and relevant for audiences today. 156 00:07:54,360 --> 00:07:56,320 Speaker 4: He makes such a good point. That was my central 157 00:07:56,440 --> 00:07:59,520 Speaker 4: challenge this entire decade of work was trying to prioritize 158 00:07:59,560 --> 00:08:02,560 Speaker 4: the humanity over the history. Let history be the backdrop. 159 00:08:02,760 --> 00:08:05,040 Speaker 4: And one of the hardest parts with the suffrage story 160 00:08:05,160 --> 00:08:07,480 Speaker 4: is audiences by and large are not coming in with 161 00:08:07,520 --> 00:08:10,520 Speaker 4: any kind of historical shorthand they don't come really knowing 162 00:08:10,520 --> 00:08:13,160 Speaker 4: these ones, whereas maybe if you see a story about 163 00:08:13,160 --> 00:08:17,400 Speaker 4: the founding fathers or about some other eras, most audiences 164 00:08:17,440 --> 00:08:19,480 Speaker 4: are coming in with some knowledge of that. But I 165 00:08:20,440 --> 00:08:23,080 Speaker 4: felt this sense of responsibility that I'm introducing audiences to 166 00:08:23,120 --> 00:08:26,480 Speaker 4: these characters. So is this constant process of distillation of 167 00:08:26,520 --> 00:08:28,720 Speaker 4: what is the least amount of information I can give 168 00:08:28,720 --> 00:08:31,560 Speaker 4: an audience so that they can follow the story, but 169 00:08:32,360 --> 00:08:35,400 Speaker 4: then go home and learn the rest on Wikipedia? But 170 00:08:35,480 --> 00:08:38,520 Speaker 4: how can I get them by the hearts? And it 171 00:08:38,640 --> 00:08:42,600 Speaker 4: really was about who are these women when no one 172 00:08:42,800 --> 00:08:45,360 Speaker 4: is watching? What is their inner life? Something amazing a 173 00:08:45,480 --> 00:08:49,520 Speaker 4: musical can do, specifically musical not another form. Is a 174 00:08:49,520 --> 00:08:52,160 Speaker 4: lot of times song can go into the inner thoughts 175 00:08:52,160 --> 00:08:54,840 Speaker 4: of the character. The other characters go away and we 176 00:08:54,920 --> 00:08:57,800 Speaker 4: are alone, and we get this door into their emotional 177 00:08:57,840 --> 00:09:00,800 Speaker 4: lives that sometimes the other characters even get. And that 178 00:09:01,000 --> 00:09:04,920 Speaker 4: is this like emotional contract with the audience. So for me, 179 00:09:05,440 --> 00:09:07,920 Speaker 4: as passionate I was about the history, put that aside 180 00:09:07,920 --> 00:09:10,199 Speaker 4: and think what was Alice Paul thinking about at two 181 00:09:10,200 --> 00:09:12,400 Speaker 4: am when she couldn't sleep? What was I to thinking 182 00:09:12,440 --> 00:09:14,360 Speaker 4: about at two am? The thing that she couldn't admit 183 00:09:14,400 --> 00:09:18,160 Speaker 4: to herself, to her friend, Those things that make an 184 00:09:18,200 --> 00:09:20,920 Speaker 4: audience member go oh, I recognize myself in her or 185 00:09:20,920 --> 00:09:24,719 Speaker 4: my friend in her. That then you root for them 186 00:09:24,720 --> 00:09:26,920 Speaker 4: and it hopefully humanizes them. So for me, as a 187 00:09:26,920 --> 00:09:30,120 Speaker 4: constant process, how can I get at the emotional live 188 00:09:30,960 --> 00:09:33,160 Speaker 4: lives of the characters that the history books want to 189 00:09:33,200 --> 00:09:33,440 Speaker 4: give me? 190 00:09:34,600 --> 00:09:35,600 Speaker 1: Don't go anywhere. 191 00:09:35,679 --> 00:09:37,280 Speaker 2: We have to take a short break, but we'll be 192 00:09:37,280 --> 00:09:50,000 Speaker 2: write back with Shana tab And we're back with writer, 193 00:09:50,160 --> 00:09:53,960 Speaker 2: composer and performer Shana Tab. I don't know where you 194 00:09:54,000 --> 00:09:56,240 Speaker 2: wrote this, but I have this image of you working 195 00:09:56,240 --> 00:09:59,640 Speaker 2: in a New York coffee shop, just something very literary. 196 00:10:00,320 --> 00:10:04,120 Speaker 2: During this whole process, did you have any unexpected inspiration 197 00:10:04,400 --> 00:10:06,160 Speaker 2: for your music or your storytelling? 198 00:10:06,760 --> 00:10:09,199 Speaker 4: There are so many but one that comes to mind. 199 00:10:09,600 --> 00:10:12,280 Speaker 4: One of my mentors is the amazing Janine to Story, 200 00:10:12,720 --> 00:10:14,880 Speaker 4: who I just think is like a legend titan of 201 00:10:14,920 --> 00:10:19,040 Speaker 4: American musical theater. In composing, and she saw reading and 202 00:10:19,160 --> 00:10:21,040 Speaker 4: kind of talk to me about this concern I have 203 00:10:21,080 --> 00:10:23,440 Speaker 4: about the emotional lives, and she said, why do we 204 00:10:23,520 --> 00:10:27,760 Speaker 4: never talk about Alice Paul's decision not to marry or 205 00:10:27,800 --> 00:10:31,440 Speaker 4: have children? And I was like, Janine, it's not a 206 00:10:31,480 --> 00:10:34,000 Speaker 4: show about that. It's a show about work in a friendship. 207 00:10:34,400 --> 00:10:37,520 Speaker 4: Not everything has to be about the relationships and the romance. 208 00:10:37,520 --> 00:10:39,600 Speaker 4: And she's like, no, no, no, you don't have to add 209 00:10:39,640 --> 00:10:41,240 Speaker 4: a character. I'm not saying she has to have like 210 00:10:41,240 --> 00:10:43,520 Speaker 4: a boyfriend or husband and girlfriend or whatever else. But 211 00:10:43,640 --> 00:10:45,880 Speaker 4: if I'm not in her head when she's thinking about 212 00:10:45,920 --> 00:10:49,320 Speaker 4: those things the way every human woman does, she won't 213 00:10:49,320 --> 00:10:50,520 Speaker 4: feel like a real person. To me. 214 00:10:50,679 --> 00:10:51,080 Speaker 2: Oh wow. 215 00:10:51,080 --> 00:10:52,520 Speaker 4: And that just kind of hit me like a ton 216 00:10:52,520 --> 00:10:55,959 Speaker 4: of bricks of Oh yeah, Like I think I've been 217 00:10:56,000 --> 00:10:59,600 Speaker 4: denying her a piece of her humanity, which is even 218 00:10:59,640 --> 00:11:02,960 Speaker 4: for those but just speaking for myself who are ambitious, 219 00:11:03,280 --> 00:11:07,280 Speaker 4: passionate about our work, fiercely independent, not wanting to be 220 00:11:07,400 --> 00:11:10,839 Speaker 4: defined by the choice or not to marry or be 221 00:11:10,920 --> 00:11:16,280 Speaker 4: a mother. That's a struggle I just described is part 222 00:11:16,280 --> 00:11:18,880 Speaker 4: of her commandity as well, and however she felt about it. 223 00:11:18,880 --> 00:11:20,319 Speaker 4: So then I wrote this song that's now in the 224 00:11:20,360 --> 00:11:22,480 Speaker 4: show that I sing every night as the character called 225 00:11:22,520 --> 00:11:27,040 Speaker 4: worth It, where she's questioning, She's like, is the work 226 00:11:27,080 --> 00:11:29,320 Speaker 4: worth it? Is denying myself these things worth it? What 227 00:11:29,400 --> 00:11:32,120 Speaker 4: are those questions? You know? So that really unlocked a 228 00:11:32,200 --> 00:11:34,240 Speaker 4: side of the character that I think I needed to hear. 229 00:11:34,559 --> 00:11:37,280 Speaker 4: You know, Alice is in nineteen thirteen having those questions, 230 00:11:37,400 --> 00:11:40,080 Speaker 4: and now in twenty twenty four, when I enjoy many 231 00:11:40,120 --> 00:11:42,079 Speaker 4: more rights in a lot of ways than she did, 232 00:11:42,600 --> 00:11:45,000 Speaker 4: I'm also having those questions right of how can I 233 00:11:45,120 --> 00:11:46,880 Speaker 4: bounce my work if I were to become a mother, 234 00:11:46,960 --> 00:11:49,840 Speaker 4: how would that work? And so that really like unlocked 235 00:11:49,840 --> 00:11:50,679 Speaker 4: a side of her for me. 236 00:11:50,880 --> 00:11:52,880 Speaker 1: And what's worth it? That's really powerful. 237 00:11:54,120 --> 00:11:57,000 Speaker 3: Well, it's clear that collaboration is such a huge part 238 00:11:57,040 --> 00:12:00,760 Speaker 3: of your process, and I've really enjoyed hearing the esteem 239 00:12:00,800 --> 00:12:02,760 Speaker 3: with which you talk about your colleagues that you've worked 240 00:12:02,800 --> 00:12:06,600 Speaker 3: on this project with. One of those colleagues is Linn 241 00:12:06,600 --> 00:12:10,480 Speaker 3: Manuel Miranda. He called you the future of musical theater 242 00:12:10,880 --> 00:12:14,680 Speaker 3: casual compliment from Lynn, and I read that he was 243 00:12:14,720 --> 00:12:18,000 Speaker 3: also a resource or a mentor that you leaned on 244 00:12:18,040 --> 00:12:20,840 Speaker 3: as you created stuffs. What will you remember most about 245 00:12:20,880 --> 00:12:21,760 Speaker 3: that collaboration. 246 00:12:23,080 --> 00:12:27,200 Speaker 4: Lynn is so wonderful. He's such a great friend and 247 00:12:27,360 --> 00:12:29,920 Speaker 4: just has been so so supportive every step of the way. 248 00:12:30,000 --> 00:12:31,920 Speaker 4: I can't thank him enough. He's one of the only 249 00:12:31,960 --> 00:12:34,040 Speaker 4: people in the world who understands what it's like to 250 00:12:34,679 --> 00:12:38,240 Speaker 4: be inside your own musical and contend with wrestling history 251 00:12:38,440 --> 00:12:41,680 Speaker 4: onto the stage. And he's been so generous and awesome. 252 00:12:42,040 --> 00:12:44,640 Speaker 4: And he also started in our early reading and gave 253 00:12:44,640 --> 00:12:49,760 Speaker 4: me a great note about letting some music do the work, 254 00:12:50,080 --> 00:12:52,680 Speaker 4: letting a song really breathe and be a song. I 255 00:12:52,679 --> 00:12:55,480 Speaker 4: think in my quest, as we were talking about before, 256 00:12:55,559 --> 00:13:00,040 Speaker 4: to like get history in, I could like stuff it 257 00:12:59,840 --> 00:13:02,840 Speaker 4: too full and not let a song just like breathe 258 00:13:02,880 --> 00:13:07,960 Speaker 4: and have its own moment for the ear to react 259 00:13:08,160 --> 00:13:11,600 Speaker 4: and recover. You know, it's about sort of balancing how 260 00:13:11,679 --> 00:13:15,640 Speaker 4: much sung dialogue there is versus how many songs there are. 261 00:13:15,960 --> 00:13:17,520 Speaker 4: You know, a song that we all recognize, you can 262 00:13:17,520 --> 00:13:19,240 Speaker 4: get on board and you hear the hook and there's 263 00:13:19,240 --> 00:13:22,520 Speaker 4: some repetition. And he was really helpful and sort of 264 00:13:22,559 --> 00:13:25,800 Speaker 4: just highlighting for me, really like let your songs shine. 265 00:13:27,120 --> 00:13:29,680 Speaker 3: Not only did you collaborate with Lynn on this project, 266 00:13:29,920 --> 00:13:32,560 Speaker 3: Hillary Clinton is a producer for Seffs as well. And 267 00:13:32,600 --> 00:13:37,040 Speaker 3: you've mentioned that the evolution of Suff's felt so tied 268 00:13:37,080 --> 00:13:39,800 Speaker 3: to Hillary's presidential campaign, which I thought was interesting. And 269 00:13:40,320 --> 00:13:43,199 Speaker 3: even in just thinking about how long it took to 270 00:13:43,559 --> 00:13:46,359 Speaker 3: bring suffs out of your head and onto the stage, 271 00:13:46,520 --> 00:13:49,320 Speaker 3: there were so many historical and political events that took 272 00:13:49,320 --> 00:13:51,120 Speaker 3: place in that time, so it makes sense that the 273 00:13:51,160 --> 00:13:53,600 Speaker 3: creative process would be a bit fluid. So what was 274 00:13:53,679 --> 00:13:57,680 Speaker 3: it exactly about her campaign that shaped the development of Seffs. 275 00:13:58,200 --> 00:14:01,120 Speaker 4: Well, My first writer's andcy to work on this was 276 00:14:01,200 --> 00:14:04,520 Speaker 4: late October through late November twenty sixteen, and the weeks 277 00:14:04,559 --> 00:14:07,240 Speaker 4: leading up to the election fanus I was like, oh, 278 00:14:07,280 --> 00:14:09,320 Speaker 4: you know, we're on this brink of this historic moment 279 00:14:09,360 --> 00:14:11,559 Speaker 4: for a woman in office, and then of course when 280 00:14:11,559 --> 00:14:13,480 Speaker 4: that didn't come to pass, it sort of felt like 281 00:14:14,240 --> 00:14:17,840 Speaker 4: it underscored my sense of urgency for wanting to tell 282 00:14:17,880 --> 00:14:20,360 Speaker 4: this story. And of course here we are now eight 283 00:14:20,400 --> 00:14:23,480 Speaker 4: years later in that same moment. But what's inspired me 284 00:14:23,560 --> 00:14:26,120 Speaker 4: so much about Secretary Clinton and having the privilege and 285 00:14:26,120 --> 00:14:29,120 Speaker 4: honor getting to know her is she still speaks out 286 00:14:29,160 --> 00:14:31,400 Speaker 4: for what she believed. Her head is held high and 287 00:14:31,440 --> 00:14:35,040 Speaker 4: her arms are outstretched, and she is resilient. And that resilience, 288 00:14:35,080 --> 00:14:37,960 Speaker 4: to me is inspiring. And part of what I'm hoping 289 00:14:38,000 --> 00:14:41,400 Speaker 4: Stuffs can can offer is that we can get knocked down, 290 00:14:42,000 --> 00:14:46,280 Speaker 4: but we will still continue. It can sound like a cliche, 291 00:14:46,360 --> 00:14:48,160 Speaker 4: but it's because it's true. 292 00:14:48,400 --> 00:14:52,320 Speaker 2: I think what you said is so resonant. So you 293 00:14:52,360 --> 00:14:55,920 Speaker 2: play the role of Alice Paul When you wrote the show, 294 00:14:56,160 --> 00:14:59,280 Speaker 2: did you have the intention of playing her? 295 00:15:00,000 --> 00:15:01,440 Speaker 4: Always knew I wanted to be in it because I'm 296 00:15:01,480 --> 00:15:03,960 Speaker 4: a performer. I pretty much always perform in my work, 297 00:15:04,280 --> 00:15:06,120 Speaker 4: and early on, I thought I would be the character 298 00:15:06,160 --> 00:15:08,200 Speaker 4: of Doris Stevens, who wrote the book that you mentioned 299 00:15:08,200 --> 00:15:10,800 Speaker 4: that originally inspired me because she's sort of I sort 300 00:15:10,840 --> 00:15:12,920 Speaker 4: of think of her as like the intern of the movement. 301 00:15:13,000 --> 00:15:15,520 Speaker 4: She's like the young one and she's the writer and 302 00:15:15,520 --> 00:15:19,920 Speaker 4: she documents it. And my group of girlfriends, I've often 303 00:15:19,960 --> 00:15:21,560 Speaker 4: been like the youngest one, and I just sort of 304 00:15:21,560 --> 00:15:24,400 Speaker 4: idolized all of my closest friends, So that felt like 305 00:15:24,520 --> 00:15:27,520 Speaker 4: it it was my spot, But then it turned out 306 00:15:27,560 --> 00:15:29,840 Speaker 4: as I wrote, Alice was the hardest nut to crack, 307 00:15:30,480 --> 00:15:32,520 Speaker 4: just emotionally. As I talked about before, it was hard 308 00:15:32,560 --> 00:15:35,080 Speaker 4: to figure her out, and so I kind of realized, like, 309 00:15:35,120 --> 00:15:37,240 Speaker 4: I think the only way I'm going to really truly 310 00:15:37,280 --> 00:15:39,320 Speaker 4: figure her out is if I staid that to your 311 00:15:39,360 --> 00:15:40,080 Speaker 4: shoes myself. 312 00:15:41,160 --> 00:15:44,160 Speaker 2: Well, in thinking about the idea of not leaving breadcrumbs. 313 00:15:44,200 --> 00:15:48,720 Speaker 2: When I try and learn about the suffrage movement, there's 314 00:15:48,800 --> 00:15:53,000 Speaker 2: some conflicting stories, and for as much as there is written, 315 00:15:53,040 --> 00:15:56,680 Speaker 2: there's actually not that much written compared to other moments 316 00:15:56,680 --> 00:16:00,520 Speaker 2: in history. Alice Paul was not really a househole name. 317 00:16:00,840 --> 00:16:03,240 Speaker 2: She was the leader of the National Women's Party, and 318 00:16:03,280 --> 00:16:05,119 Speaker 2: her impact was really profound. 319 00:16:06,800 --> 00:16:08,040 Speaker 1: I'm curious how. 320 00:16:07,880 --> 00:16:10,880 Speaker 2: You chose her and some of these other figures that 321 00:16:10,920 --> 00:16:14,200 Speaker 2: you really wanted to ground in the action of the musical. 322 00:16:15,160 --> 00:16:18,320 Speaker 2: How did you choose which women you were going to highlight. 323 00:16:19,360 --> 00:16:23,320 Speaker 4: Yeah, it was hard because there's so much out there 324 00:16:23,360 --> 00:16:25,320 Speaker 4: that hasn't been told, and I feel so passionate about 325 00:16:25,320 --> 00:16:27,280 Speaker 4: all of it, and this whole ten years has been 326 00:16:27,280 --> 00:16:28,760 Speaker 4: making my peace with the fact that it's just a 327 00:16:28,760 --> 00:16:30,880 Speaker 4: two and a half hour musical and I can't get everything. 328 00:16:31,800 --> 00:16:33,480 Speaker 4: I had a quote on the front page of my 329 00:16:33,520 --> 00:16:34,280 Speaker 4: scrip from Susan B. 330 00:16:34,320 --> 00:16:34,720 Speaker 1: Anthony. 331 00:16:34,760 --> 00:16:37,680 Speaker 4: That kind of unlocked the show dramatically for me. And 332 00:16:37,720 --> 00:16:40,960 Speaker 4: the quote was there never was a young woman yet 333 00:16:41,080 --> 00:16:44,240 Speaker 4: who did not think if only she had management of 334 00:16:44,280 --> 00:16:46,640 Speaker 4: the work from the start, the cause would have been 335 00:16:46,680 --> 00:16:49,880 Speaker 4: carried long ago. I felt just so when I was young, 336 00:16:50,840 --> 00:16:52,360 Speaker 4: and there was something to me and that of her 337 00:16:52,760 --> 00:16:55,480 Speaker 4: of being like every generation has that, you know, every 338 00:16:55,560 --> 00:16:58,200 Speaker 4: young ambitious one comes along and thinks she's going to 339 00:16:58,240 --> 00:17:01,240 Speaker 4: fix it all. And I used to feel that way 340 00:17:01,280 --> 00:17:03,760 Speaker 4: when I was young, and I was like, oh, yes, okay, 341 00:17:04,119 --> 00:17:07,560 Speaker 4: what if I make the conflict in this show intergenerational 342 00:17:07,600 --> 00:17:10,080 Speaker 4: between the women, because I think early on I was like, 343 00:17:10,119 --> 00:17:12,400 Speaker 4: I think the trap of this dramatically as a writer 344 00:17:12,560 --> 00:17:14,639 Speaker 4: might be to be like, okay, if the seffs or 345 00:17:14,680 --> 00:17:17,960 Speaker 4: the protagonist, and the antagonist is like the president or 346 00:17:18,040 --> 00:17:20,760 Speaker 4: the press or the men. And I did not want 347 00:17:20,800 --> 00:17:24,600 Speaker 4: the show to be a pat liberal exercise, and it 348 00:17:24,640 --> 00:17:27,400 Speaker 4: appealed to me to make the conflict in the show 349 00:17:27,880 --> 00:17:32,439 Speaker 4: almost like a cautionary tale against progressive inviting, which you know, 350 00:17:32,680 --> 00:17:35,640 Speaker 4: I'll let's hopefully speak for itself. But so it excited 351 00:17:35,680 --> 00:17:37,399 Speaker 4: me to think of Okay, what if my central dramatic 352 00:17:37,400 --> 00:17:40,439 Speaker 4: conflict is between like a younger more radical stuff and 353 00:17:40,520 --> 00:17:43,600 Speaker 4: an older more moderate stuff, and how they share a 354 00:17:43,720 --> 00:17:47,760 Speaker 4: goal but differ on how to achieve the goal. And 355 00:17:47,960 --> 00:17:51,520 Speaker 4: Alice Paul and Carrie Chapman Katt really perfectly exemplify the 356 00:17:51,560 --> 00:17:54,040 Speaker 4: idea of that thesis to me. So once I kind 357 00:17:54,080 --> 00:17:57,600 Speaker 4: of located that conflict in those two, I built around 358 00:17:57,600 --> 00:17:58,120 Speaker 4: it from there. 359 00:17:59,560 --> 00:18:01,640 Speaker 1: We're taking a quick break. We'll be back with more 360 00:18:01,640 --> 00:18:07,720 Speaker 1: from Shana Tobb. Stay with us. 361 00:18:10,400 --> 00:18:12,879 Speaker 3: We're back with more of our conversation with the Tony 362 00:18:12,960 --> 00:18:17,160 Speaker 3: Award winning Shana Tobb. Another one of the activists that's 363 00:18:17,160 --> 00:18:20,800 Speaker 3: featured in Seffs is Ida b Wells, who I think, 364 00:18:20,920 --> 00:18:24,880 Speaker 3: for me, for anybody who's a journalist, particularly women female journalist, 365 00:18:24,920 --> 00:18:27,560 Speaker 3: Ida b Wells is a huge personal hero of mine 366 00:18:27,920 --> 00:18:32,000 Speaker 3: and Ida's great granddaughter Michelle Duster, who is a historian 367 00:18:32,240 --> 00:18:35,679 Speaker 3: and a steward of her ancestors legacy. She came to 368 00:18:35,680 --> 00:18:38,520 Speaker 3: see Suffs. Tell me about this moment. Did you get 369 00:18:38,560 --> 00:18:41,440 Speaker 3: to meet her, spend time with her? What was that conversation? 370 00:18:41,640 --> 00:18:45,439 Speaker 4: Like? It was so epic when Michelle Duster came, we 371 00:18:45,440 --> 00:18:47,760 Speaker 4: were all so excited she was there backstage. We were like, 372 00:18:47,760 --> 00:18:49,439 Speaker 4: oh my god, Oh my god, her great granddaughter's here, 373 00:18:49,600 --> 00:18:51,520 Speaker 4: because we all have such Admirationiper, as you said, how 374 00:18:51,520 --> 00:18:53,600 Speaker 4: she's been a steward of her legacy and an author 375 00:18:53,640 --> 00:18:56,359 Speaker 4: and activist in her own right, and you know, felt 376 00:18:56,359 --> 00:18:58,680 Speaker 4: some nerves. And then she came back to stage after 377 00:18:58,720 --> 00:19:02,520 Speaker 4: and she was wearing her suffrage and she just embraced us, 378 00:19:02,560 --> 00:19:05,040 Speaker 4: and we had this beautiful conversation and she embraced Nicki 379 00:19:05,119 --> 00:19:08,880 Speaker 4: and seemed to be so excited about what we were doing, 380 00:19:08,880 --> 00:19:11,920 Speaker 4: which just meant the world. I mean, that's in the show. 381 00:19:12,000 --> 00:19:15,600 Speaker 4: We have these lyrics of I want my great granddaughter 382 00:19:15,640 --> 00:19:17,199 Speaker 4: to know I was here, and she was, you know, 383 00:19:17,240 --> 00:19:19,600 Speaker 4: one of the only living links to these women. A 384 00:19:19,600 --> 00:19:22,679 Speaker 4: lot of these women, to our conversation earlier, didn't have kids. 385 00:19:22,960 --> 00:19:26,040 Speaker 4: Alice Paul didn't have kids, Doris Stevens didn't have kids. 386 00:19:26,119 --> 00:19:29,840 Speaker 4: Lucy Burns, Ida and Mary Church Cheryl, who is another 387 00:19:30,119 --> 00:19:33,200 Speaker 4: incredible suffraget who we've portrayed in the show, both had 388 00:19:33,280 --> 00:19:36,439 Speaker 4: children and were balancing not only in the movement but 389 00:19:36,560 --> 00:19:39,440 Speaker 4: motherhood and marriage. And so then to have Michelle there 390 00:19:39,480 --> 00:19:42,520 Speaker 4: as an actual descendant and to get to kind of 391 00:19:42,520 --> 00:19:45,840 Speaker 4: commune with her was by far. I mean, We've had 392 00:19:45,880 --> 00:19:47,679 Speaker 4: a lot of special moments, and it was right up 393 00:19:47,680 --> 00:19:48,760 Speaker 4: there as the most special. 394 00:19:49,520 --> 00:19:52,240 Speaker 3: Shana, I know you've got the Tony Awards now, I 395 00:19:52,320 --> 00:19:56,600 Speaker 3: know you're busier onto other projects. Do you ever stop 396 00:19:56,760 --> 00:20:00,280 Speaker 3: to think, like, we did it, you did it. That 397 00:20:00,560 --> 00:20:04,000 Speaker 3: is the fact that Michelle Duster came to see the 398 00:20:04,000 --> 00:20:07,000 Speaker 3: show and that you wrote that lyric into the show. 399 00:20:07,040 --> 00:20:10,800 Speaker 3: Like what a full circle moment, Like you did it? 400 00:20:10,880 --> 00:20:12,399 Speaker 1: Did these women justice? 401 00:20:12,760 --> 00:20:16,479 Speaker 4: Oh man? I mean one of my favorite feelings is 402 00:20:16,600 --> 00:20:19,119 Speaker 4: just like hard work paying off and just all I 403 00:20:19,160 --> 00:20:22,919 Speaker 4: feel so proud of the way as a group, truly, 404 00:20:23,160 --> 00:20:24,639 Speaker 4: and it's not like I was a part of it, 405 00:20:24,680 --> 00:20:29,440 Speaker 4: and my collaborators and team members like just kept going 406 00:20:29,520 --> 00:20:32,120 Speaker 4: and our last production we ended up losing a lot 407 00:20:32,119 --> 00:20:34,960 Speaker 4: of the performances to COVID, just so many stepbacks, and 408 00:20:35,000 --> 00:20:38,520 Speaker 4: that we've gotten to have this beautiful year on Broadway 409 00:20:38,880 --> 00:20:41,439 Speaker 4: with so many special moments and special guests coming to 410 00:20:41,480 --> 00:20:43,960 Speaker 4: see us, and the audiences and the Tony words. I 411 00:20:44,000 --> 00:20:48,560 Speaker 4: mean that it has been so so so gratifying. Yeah, 412 00:20:48,600 --> 00:20:51,040 Speaker 4: and will help me to sort of return to the 413 00:20:51,040 --> 00:20:53,359 Speaker 4: piano the next time to know that like it can 414 00:20:54,760 --> 00:20:56,120 Speaker 4: it can pay off eventually. 415 00:20:56,480 --> 00:20:59,560 Speaker 1: Yeah, you made history and that's no small thing. 416 00:21:00,600 --> 00:21:04,439 Speaker 3: And you also have this most impressive range because after 417 00:21:04,880 --> 00:21:09,040 Speaker 3: creating stuffs, you are also collaborating with Sir Elton John 418 00:21:09,119 --> 00:21:11,960 Speaker 3: on the Devilwares Product musical which is playing in London 419 00:21:12,359 --> 00:21:16,480 Speaker 3: right now. So I read that Sir Elton wrote the music, 420 00:21:16,800 --> 00:21:20,200 Speaker 3: you wrote the lyrics. I have so many questions about 421 00:21:20,240 --> 00:21:24,160 Speaker 3: this process, especially when you're creating the lyrics from such 422 00:21:24,160 --> 00:21:25,160 Speaker 3: a beloved script. 423 00:21:25,240 --> 00:21:26,520 Speaker 1: What is the formula for that? 424 00:21:27,440 --> 00:21:30,199 Speaker 4: Well, one of the many amazing things about Elton is 425 00:21:30,240 --> 00:21:33,760 Speaker 4: he has pretty much always in his fifty plus your career, 426 00:21:33,840 --> 00:21:37,600 Speaker 4: worked with the lyrics first and worked with lyricists. And 427 00:21:37,680 --> 00:21:40,280 Speaker 4: so for me, as a lyricist and composer, I'm usually 428 00:21:40,400 --> 00:21:43,159 Speaker 4: writing both and sometimes at the same time. And so 429 00:21:43,240 --> 00:21:46,440 Speaker 4: it was a really fun challenge to be like, Okay, 430 00:21:46,480 --> 00:21:48,600 Speaker 4: you just have to write lyrics on lyric sheet and 431 00:21:48,640 --> 00:21:51,480 Speaker 4: not touch the piano at all, and think about how 432 00:21:51,560 --> 00:21:53,600 Speaker 4: can I set this lyric up on the page in 433 00:21:53,640 --> 00:21:55,480 Speaker 4: a way that it's going I'm going to put it 434 00:21:55,480 --> 00:21:59,200 Speaker 4: in front of this rock legend that hopefully will spring 435 00:21:59,240 --> 00:22:00,439 Speaker 4: off the page for him. 436 00:22:00,840 --> 00:22:03,359 Speaker 3: And then was there one Devilwaar's protest scene that you 437 00:22:03,400 --> 00:22:06,800 Speaker 3: were most excited to see come to life in musical form. 438 00:22:07,600 --> 00:22:09,480 Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean there's so many, but one, I think 439 00:22:09,480 --> 00:22:12,959 Speaker 4: the thing that I'm most passionate about and proud of 440 00:22:13,080 --> 00:22:15,119 Speaker 4: that album that I wrote. I knew I wanted to 441 00:22:15,119 --> 00:22:18,639 Speaker 4: write a song from the perspective of Nigel, the Stanley 442 00:22:18,640 --> 00:22:22,120 Speaker 4: Tucci character, So we wrote this song called Scene that's 443 00:22:22,160 --> 00:22:24,640 Speaker 4: all about how like the fashion magazine made him feel 444 00:22:24,680 --> 00:22:27,920 Speaker 4: seen as a kid, and especially as a young gay kid, 445 00:22:28,320 --> 00:22:32,120 Speaker 4: and how he wants to pass that on to another 446 00:22:32,359 --> 00:22:35,160 Speaker 4: young queer child who might pick up a fashion magazine 447 00:22:35,160 --> 00:22:39,439 Speaker 4: and feel represented. And there was something because for me 448 00:22:39,440 --> 00:22:41,359 Speaker 4: it was tough for a while to connect to the 449 00:22:41,400 --> 00:22:43,879 Speaker 4: fashion world is not so much my world. But I 450 00:22:43,920 --> 00:22:46,080 Speaker 4: was like, oh, when I heard that in the movie, 451 00:22:46,080 --> 00:22:47,960 Speaker 4: I was like, that's how I felt about cast albums 452 00:22:48,000 --> 00:22:50,920 Speaker 4: growing up, a Broadway cast album. So I was trying 453 00:22:50,960 --> 00:22:52,920 Speaker 4: to find sort of like a deeper emotional core there, 454 00:22:52,960 --> 00:22:54,760 Speaker 4: and I'm really glad that we ended up fitting out 455 00:22:54,800 --> 00:22:55,120 Speaker 4: the show. 456 00:22:55,920 --> 00:22:59,080 Speaker 2: You mentioned that it would be an absolute dream for 457 00:22:59,280 --> 00:23:02,320 Speaker 2: SETH to be formed in schools and local theaters across 458 00:23:02,359 --> 00:23:06,600 Speaker 2: the country, and with its focus on powerful and significant 459 00:23:06,640 --> 00:23:10,919 Speaker 2: figures in women's history. Curious what impact you hope this 460 00:23:10,960 --> 00:23:13,159 Speaker 2: story could have on young women as they begin to 461 00:23:13,240 --> 00:23:15,480 Speaker 2: find their voices politically. 462 00:23:15,680 --> 00:23:18,040 Speaker 4: Yeah, it's always been my dream of stuffs that kids 463 00:23:18,080 --> 00:23:20,880 Speaker 4: will grow up doing it in high schools, because that's 464 00:23:21,640 --> 00:23:23,520 Speaker 4: how I kind of found myself and found my voice 465 00:23:23,560 --> 00:23:25,880 Speaker 4: as a kid. I hope that a new generation grows 466 00:23:25,960 --> 00:23:28,040 Speaker 4: up playing Alice and Lucy and Ida, and that in 467 00:23:28,119 --> 00:23:32,399 Speaker 4: doing so sort of step into their power and their confidence. 468 00:23:32,440 --> 00:23:34,600 Speaker 4: And my hope was to contribute some roles to the 469 00:23:34,640 --> 00:23:39,680 Speaker 4: canon that are complicated that both allow a girl to 470 00:23:40,160 --> 00:23:42,800 Speaker 4: play her confidence and her power, but also her doubts 471 00:23:42,800 --> 00:23:46,359 Speaker 4: and her fears and her mistakes and her hubris and 472 00:23:46,400 --> 00:23:49,719 Speaker 4: everything in between, and just asking the questions of how 473 00:23:49,760 --> 00:23:52,480 Speaker 4: does change get made and who gets to decide, and 474 00:23:52,520 --> 00:23:55,800 Speaker 4: that they can their understanding of democracy and our participation 475 00:23:55,920 --> 00:23:59,040 Speaker 4: in it could even be somewhat formed by the show. 476 00:23:59,119 --> 00:23:59,959 Speaker 4: That could be my greatest home. 477 00:24:00,240 --> 00:24:04,200 Speaker 2: Yeah, Shana, you're talking to two theater kids. Yes, so 478 00:24:04,960 --> 00:24:08,440 Speaker 2: we know exactly what you're talking about. And I actually 479 00:24:09,080 --> 00:24:11,480 Speaker 2: had to play one of the men and guys and 480 00:24:11,560 --> 00:24:16,160 Speaker 2: dolls because there wasn't enough female roles. Yeah, never really 481 00:24:16,280 --> 00:24:19,680 Speaker 2: enough female roles and definitely not enough complicated female roles. 482 00:24:19,720 --> 00:24:23,560 Speaker 2: So I really hope this is performed in theaters and 483 00:24:23,560 --> 00:24:24,840 Speaker 2: schools across the country too. 484 00:24:25,600 --> 00:24:27,880 Speaker 1: Yeah, can please please get Stuffs instead of Princess and the. 485 00:24:27,800 --> 00:24:32,000 Speaker 4: P Oh my gosh No. I'm so excited for it 486 00:24:32,000 --> 00:24:34,080 Speaker 4: to be done in schools. And even though we had 487 00:24:34,080 --> 00:24:36,919 Speaker 4: to cast all women and non binary folks here in 488 00:24:37,040 --> 00:24:40,639 Speaker 4: on Broadway, I hope that all genders perform, and I 489 00:24:40,640 --> 00:24:42,920 Speaker 4: would really be excited for boys to be in Stuffs too, 490 00:24:42,960 --> 00:24:45,359 Speaker 4: and that I included this character. Dudley Malone, who was 491 00:24:45,359 --> 00:24:48,200 Speaker 4: in the Wilson administration, ultimately very publicly quit the Wilson 492 00:24:48,200 --> 00:24:51,400 Speaker 4: administration become a pro bono lawyer for the Stuffs because 493 00:24:51,440 --> 00:24:53,120 Speaker 4: it was important to me to show like we need 494 00:24:53,160 --> 00:24:56,000 Speaker 4: good men in this fight. Yes do, and they're important 495 00:24:56,040 --> 00:24:56,440 Speaker 4: as well. 496 00:24:57,080 --> 00:24:57,280 Speaker 2: Well. 497 00:24:57,359 --> 00:24:59,920 Speaker 1: Said, thank you so much for sharing your time with. 498 00:25:00,600 --> 00:25:02,520 Speaker 4: Thank you so much. It's so being so great to 499 00:25:02,560 --> 00:25:05,200 Speaker 4: talk to you. Thanks for everything you do to champion 500 00:25:05,440 --> 00:25:06,159 Speaker 4: women's stories. 501 00:25:06,160 --> 00:25:06,719 Speaker 1: It's awesome. 502 00:25:06,840 --> 00:25:07,159 Speaker 2: Thank you. 503 00:25:07,240 --> 00:25:09,160 Speaker 1: Shana. 504 00:25:09,280 --> 00:25:12,440 Speaker 3: Shana Tobb is the creator of Suff's It's on Broadway 505 00:25:12,480 --> 00:25:15,160 Speaker 3: through January fifth, and if you happen to be in London, 506 00:25:15,240 --> 00:25:18,960 Speaker 3: her collaboration with Elton John on The Devilwar's produc Musical 507 00:25:19,080 --> 00:25:20,920 Speaker 3: is now open in the West End. 508 00:25:25,359 --> 00:25:26,600 Speaker 1: That's it for today's show. 509 00:25:26,720 --> 00:25:29,440 Speaker 2: Tomorrow, we're popping off with the mother and son duo 510 00:25:29,720 --> 00:25:31,520 Speaker 2: co hosts of the podcast. 511 00:25:31,119 --> 00:25:34,200 Speaker 1: Hold On I'm Calling My Mom, Paul and Barb Roysden. 512 00:25:35,080 --> 00:25:38,640 Speaker 3: Join the conversation using hashtag the bright Side and connect 513 00:25:38,640 --> 00:25:41,880 Speaker 3: with us on social media at Hello Sunshine on Instagram 514 00:25:41,920 --> 00:25:45,080 Speaker 3: and at the bright Side Pod on TikTok Oh, and 515 00:25:45,119 --> 00:25:47,720 Speaker 3: feel free to tag us at Simone Boyce and at 516 00:25:47,840 --> 00:25:48,840 Speaker 3: Danielle Robe. 517 00:25:49,400 --> 00:25:52,320 Speaker 2: Listen and follow The bright Side on the iHeartRadio app, 518 00:25:52,400 --> 00:25:55,040 Speaker 2: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. 519 00:25:55,440 --> 00:26:02,600 Speaker 3: See you tomorrow, folks. Keep looking on the bright side.