WEBVTT - Patrick Boyd - Part 1

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<v Speaker 1>Welcome back to another edition of the Frida Egg Podcast.

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<v Speaker 1>Today I am joined by Patrick Boyd. Patrick is the

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<v Speaker 1>co founder of National Custom Works and founder of Boyd,

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<v Speaker 1>Blade and Farrell. Besides making custom irons, Patrick is also

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<v Speaker 1>a golf course architecture addict and was the longtime GM

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<v Speaker 1>of Sweeten's Cove. This will be another two part podcasts,

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<v Speaker 1>with part two dropping on Tuesday. Enjoy it and I

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<v Speaker 1>wish everybody a happy Thanksgiving.

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<v Speaker 2>I miss a green for example. I'm already upset when

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<v Speaker 2>I find my ball in the bunker, I'm really upset.

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<v Speaker 3>And when I find my ball in.

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<v Speaker 4>A bride egg, Frida egg, the dreaded Frida Egg, Frida Egg,

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<v Speaker 4>Frida egggg Frida Egg, bride egg, Lie.

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<v Speaker 1>I'm about ready to run off of the hup course. How

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<v Speaker 1>did you get into club making?

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<v Speaker 2>Well, I mean I got into club making. It was

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<v Speaker 2>two thousand and three, and I, you know, I'd always

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<v Speaker 2>really been into golf clubs, and I just decided I

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<v Speaker 2>had some time on my hands. I found a guy

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<v Speaker 2>that had a custom shop that was pretty close to

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<v Speaker 2>where I was working. I was working in a law

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<v Speaker 2>firm at the time, and I wrote him an email

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<v Speaker 2>and just was really kind of interested in learning about

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<v Speaker 2>building clubs and everything else, and I just happened to

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<v Speaker 2>catch him at the right time. He'd been in business

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<v Speaker 2>for about a year, and he had all these shafts

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<v Speaker 2>that he'd pulled out of clubs, and I was basically

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<v Speaker 2>the back room bitch for this guy for like months.

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<v Speaker 2>And when I kind of got through everything, he kind

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<v Speaker 2>of taught me how to build clubs and how to

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<v Speaker 2>fit clubs, and I mean that was really kind of

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<v Speaker 2>my introduction to the golf of the golf equipment business.

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<v Speaker 2>I'm still in touch with the guy too. He was

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<v Speaker 2>he was a great mentor for me. His name is Leith,

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<v Speaker 2>Leith Anderson. He's in he's in Indiana. But I mean,

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<v Speaker 2>it was just, you know, it was one of those

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<v Speaker 2>moments in my life where it was, you know, I'm

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<v Speaker 2>something I'd always kind of wanted to look at doing,

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<v Speaker 2>and you know, it was either you have this opportunity

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<v Speaker 2>now to do it. I was, you know, I was

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<v Speaker 2>twenty twenty five, twenty twenty six at the time, and uh,

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<v Speaker 2>you know just kind of dove into it. You know it.

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<v Speaker 2>It's uh, it's been an interesting rabbit hole, to say

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<v Speaker 2>the least. But it's kind of taking me all over

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<v Speaker 2>the place living and and as far as just having different,

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<v Speaker 2>different hats and doing different things in golf. It's it's

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<v Speaker 2>been a really fun ride. And obviously, you know, there's

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<v Speaker 2>nothing I'd really change about it. But yeah, I was

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<v Speaker 2>just kind of an auspicious start in the back room

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<v Speaker 2>of a custom club shop in Palo Alto, California.

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<v Speaker 1>It's fascinating. I uh, I grew up in on Wenesia

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<v Speaker 1>Club in Lake Forest. They always had a club maker

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<v Speaker 1>club fitter all the way back to like the old

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<v Speaker 1>days of when that was the way it was and

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<v Speaker 1>they're famous. Guy was a Hubby hub John who is

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<v Speaker 1>who's finishing up. But but outside of that, it was

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<v Speaker 1>for a long time, I feel like the the mass

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<v Speaker 1>production just overwhelmed the handcrafted work.

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<v Speaker 2>Oh one hundred percent, I mean, and the timing was

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<v Speaker 2>really you know, this was like two thousand. It's like

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<v Speaker 2>two thousand and three. So I mean you had places

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<v Speaker 2>like there's you know, like John Riley's in Monterey, and

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<v Speaker 2>you had you know, Henry Griffits kind of did a

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<v Speaker 2>custom fitting deal, and they had places all over and

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<v Speaker 2>they're you know kind of manufacturers had tried to have

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<v Speaker 2>fitting systems. Zevo was another one that had a fitting system,

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<v Speaker 2>but you know, manufact I just tried to have fitting

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<v Speaker 2>systems and it just never really worked out. And all

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<v Speaker 2>of a sudden, this you know, kind of its kind

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<v Speaker 2>of whole other deal started opening up with you know,

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<v Speaker 2>guys that had the ability and the equipment to fit

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<v Speaker 2>people for shafts and for specs and to really understand

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<v Speaker 2>what somebody needs. And I really kind of changed the

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<v Speaker 2>paradigm of how people bought golf equipment. But it was just,

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<v Speaker 2>you know, it was interesting to kind of get into

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<v Speaker 2>that really in its infancy when businesses like that really

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<v Speaker 2>hadn't been around that long. I mean there were businesses

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<v Speaker 2>before that were they were buying cheap clone equipment and

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<v Speaker 2>assembling it and selling it, you know, selling cheap sets.

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<v Speaker 2>But I mean this was this was a legit you know,

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<v Speaker 2>this was a legitimate performance deal. This was going in

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<v Speaker 2>working with the latest technology. And I mean we had

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<v Speaker 2>in his shop, we had a few different devices, but

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<v Speaker 2>I mean there was one really old school one man

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<v Speaker 2>where it was literally like you hit through a couple

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<v Speaker 2>of lasers and it would just like spit out numbers

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<v Speaker 2>that were somewhat accurate, but I mean having options for

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<v Speaker 2>people to try and you know, kind of the birth

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<v Speaker 2>of launch monitors. It was really you know, really this

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<v Speaker 2>was kind of the beginning of it, and it was

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<v Speaker 2>it was interesting to be you know, kind of kind

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<v Speaker 2>of there looking at and seeing that kind of change

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<v Speaker 2>things and just really the evolution of where things went

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<v Speaker 2>from there, you know, because they're there. Weren't at that time,

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<v Speaker 2>there weren't any clubs with shaft changing technology. You know,

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<v Speaker 2>Nakashima was the first company to have that, and that

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<v Speaker 2>was like two thousand and five, and then you know

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<v Speaker 2>that really kind of changed the way fittings were done.

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<v Speaker 2>And then all these all these connect systems really kind

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<v Speaker 2>of got good, and you know, club connect systems got

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<v Speaker 2>really good and and and really easy for people to

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<v Speaker 2>work with, club makers to work with to build a

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<v Speaker 2>fit cart, for people to to really hit, you know,

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<v Speaker 2>hit a lot of different different shots and clubs to

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<v Speaker 2>see what they needed.

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<v Speaker 1>But you know, it was fascin you know, the guy

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<v Speaker 1>I went to this guy a long time ago. You know,

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<v Speaker 1>I've gotten fit. You know, he it was in high school.

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<v Speaker 1>I had to be in high school. He's doing this

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<v Speaker 1>out of his out of the garage of his his

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<v Speaker 1>house in the northern suburbs of Chicago. His name was

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<v Speaker 1>Dennis Pine. I don't know if you recognize that name.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, Dennis is like I know Dennis.

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<v Speaker 5>He had he was part of Club Champion.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I knew him before he was part of Clubs Champion,

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<v Speaker 2>so that there they were there were Yeah, I know Dennis.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, so like that. That's so I was. I got

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<v Speaker 1>I went to his garage of his house when I

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<v Speaker 1>was like I was a high schooler, and then it

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<v Speaker 1>became Club Champion and he had an offshoot. But it's

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<v Speaker 1>just crazy how this boom has happened with custom clubs

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<v Speaker 1>and then you know, you're on the all the way

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<v Speaker 1>on that one end of the spectrum now with National

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<v Speaker 1>Custom Works, where you're doing you know, the custom irons,

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<v Speaker 1>which I think adds a whole nother layer and interesting

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<v Speaker 1>aspect to the club making process.

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<v Speaker 2>Oh yeah, because I mean we're taking you know, we're

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<v Speaker 2>taking all that information that somebody is going to really

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<v Speaker 2>garner through a fitting, figuring out the length, lie shaft,

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<v Speaker 2>the specs that they really need, and we can really

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<v Speaker 2>take that fitting to the next level as far as

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<v Speaker 2>crafting the club's most specifically the bottom of the golf

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<v Speaker 2>clubs of what they need to kind of match up

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<v Speaker 2>with their specific tendencies, their preferences, and the conditions that

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<v Speaker 2>they play in. There's there's really a lot that we

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<v Speaker 2>do that's on that side of it. That's kind of

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<v Speaker 2>really what the focus is. Obviously, there's a lot of

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<v Speaker 2>little aesthetic details that are really kind of tailored to

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<v Speaker 2>a client's preferences. But really the goal and we fit

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<v Speaker 2>somebody for irons and wedges is just figuring out exactly

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<v Speaker 2>how the bottom of that golf club needs to work

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<v Speaker 2>for that person for what they like to do at

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<v Speaker 2>the golf club and what they do at the golf club.

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<v Speaker 2>So yeah, it's it's com sorry good.

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<v Speaker 1>I'm not a gearhead at all, so you know, for

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<v Speaker 1>all the listeners I am, I'm out over my skis

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<v Speaker 1>here talking with this. So I'm going to ask a

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<v Speaker 1>lot of basic questions and.

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<v Speaker 2>Stuff.

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<v Speaker 1>We are going, we're gonna, we're gonna talk about all

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<v Speaker 1>kinds of stuff. But I'm interested in club, you know,

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<v Speaker 1>I'm hoping to get a little more of a baseline.

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<v Speaker 1>I'm kind of I get fit, I put them in

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<v Speaker 1>my bag, I forget about it. I don't even think

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<v Speaker 1>about new clubs. I refuse to hit people's clubs because

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<v Speaker 1>I don't even want to try it. But I'm curious.

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<v Speaker 1>So with getting all this is this fitting, you know,

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<v Speaker 1>and in having the different souls and how much of

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<v Speaker 1>an impact, like does that can that have on play?

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<v Speaker 1>On like your play?

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<v Speaker 2>It's pretty I mean it, First of all, it depends

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<v Speaker 2>on how well you know the equipment that somebody is

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<v Speaker 2>playing actually fits them, because.

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<v Speaker 1>Like a baseline fit, So you've got the shaft that.

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<v Speaker 2>Baseline fitting that you just went through to figure out

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<v Speaker 2>all these details of your shaft, your length, and your

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<v Speaker 2>life's not taking into account the bottom of the golf club.

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<v Speaker 2>I don't really know other than us, And you know,

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<v Speaker 2>there's a couple other wedge manufacturers that offer some custom wedges.

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<v Speaker 2>You know, we really kind of look at golf clubs

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<v Speaker 2>a little bit differently, you know, And and the larger

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<v Speaker 2>manufacturers when they're making golf clubs, they're targeting a market segment.

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<v Speaker 2>They're they're trying to make a golf club that casts

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<v Speaker 2>a wide net as far as the number of people

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<v Speaker 2>that it's going to fit. Obviously, there's a little subsets

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<v Speaker 2>within that you've got game improvement, super game improvement players, cavities, blades.

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<v Speaker 2>I mean, there's all these little subsets. But the way

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<v Speaker 2>they kind of engineer and design the bottom of those

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<v Speaker 2>clubs is really kind of designed to cast a wide net.

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<v Speaker 2>And they they all are kind of interesting too when

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<v Speaker 2>you really kind of look at the some of them,

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<v Speaker 2>because every manufacturer kind of has a tendency to how

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<v Speaker 2>they set up those souls. There's a couple of manufacturers

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<v Speaker 2>that put a lot of bounce on their irons. There's

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<v Speaker 2>you know, manufacturers that don't put a lot of bounce

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<v Speaker 2>on their irons. Some manufacturers have sharpish leading edges, they

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<v Speaker 2>don't have a lot of camber. They're all a little

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<v Speaker 2>bit different as far as how the bottoms of the

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<v Speaker 2>souls are set up. There's not a not a standard

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<v Speaker 2>per se. You've got a pretty wide range of things

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<v Speaker 2>out there. And you know, say I get I get

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<v Speaker 2>a client that I'm working with and he knows all

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<v Speaker 2>those details, but you know he's got a specific tendency. Well,

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<v Speaker 2>you know, we talk about that tendency. What's going on

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<v Speaker 2>with with what you're playing right now, is it is

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<v Speaker 2>it going to the ground too much? So are you

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<v Speaker 2>hitting everything thin, what's what do your divots look like,

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<v Speaker 2>what's you know, what's really kind of going on, and

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<v Speaker 2>really look at it from from that perspective, and then

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<v Speaker 2>take into account what they're playing with. So, I mean,

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<v Speaker 2>say I get a guy that tells me he's missing

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<v Speaker 2>everything thin, Well, automatically, I'm not going to think that

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<v Speaker 2>he's a sweeper, has a has a narrow or a

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<v Speaker 2>shallow angle of attack. I'm going to want to look

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<v Speaker 2>at what clubs he's playing. If he's you know, if

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<v Speaker 2>he's got an iron that has a lot of bounce,

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<v Speaker 2>I can understand right away why he thinks he's a sweeper.

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<v Speaker 2>He's you know, leading edges too high, the club's not

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<v Speaker 2>really get into the ground for him. So those tendency

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<v Speaker 2>is going to be to miss a thin and you

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<v Speaker 2>know vice versa. You get a guy that you know

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<v Speaker 2>thinks he's really steep and you talk to him in

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<v Speaker 2>the clubs he's playing don't have any bounce or camber,

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<v Speaker 2>and he's taking these huge divid's with him and he

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<v Speaker 2>thinks he's really steep and he's really not. It's you know,

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<v Speaker 2>it's every it's just it's it's the fascinating thing to

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<v Speaker 2>me and is like every every client I work with,

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<v Speaker 2>it's like a different puzzle that you have to kind

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<v Speaker 2>of piece together because you know, golf is such an

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<v Speaker 2>individual game and people play it so many different ways,

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<v Speaker 2>and you know, everybody swings like a fingerprint, and beyond that,

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<v Speaker 2>you know, just just how people like to play is different.

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<v Speaker 1>So that makes so much different to me because like

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<v Speaker 1>when people ask me for recommendations, like about like clubs

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<v Speaker 1>or about balls I'm or stuff like that. I just

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<v Speaker 1>think it's so personal because what works for me doesn't

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<v Speaker 1>necessarily work for anybody else.

0:11:40.360 --> 0:11:44.000
<v Speaker 2>Oh exactly percent. It's just it's just so fascinating too.

0:11:44.000 --> 0:11:45.800
<v Speaker 2>I mean, I've been I've been like an equipment geek

0:11:45.840 --> 0:11:48.680
<v Speaker 2>for most of my life. I'm forty one now, and

0:11:48.720 --> 0:11:50.520
<v Speaker 2>I kind of really got into equipment when I was

0:11:50.520 --> 0:11:53.480
<v Speaker 2>like ten eleven years old. Just you know, I was

0:11:53.520 --> 0:11:55.800
<v Speaker 2>just like obsessed with all equipment, and like, you know,

0:11:55.960 --> 0:11:58.360
<v Speaker 2>like twenty years ago, you go crazy like some you know,

0:11:58.480 --> 0:12:01.079
<v Speaker 2>some some club would come out and it would be

0:12:01.120 --> 0:12:03.160
<v Speaker 2>out there. If there's an all per case in Point

0:12:03.200 --> 0:12:05.080
<v Speaker 2>Pink came out with their first metal driver, the Zing

0:12:05.160 --> 0:12:08.080
<v Speaker 2>two came out, everybody was saying it was thirty yards longer.

0:12:08.080 --> 0:12:10.360
<v Speaker 2>It was this amazing driver and you just couldn't wait

0:12:10.400 --> 0:12:11.600
<v Speaker 2>to get your hands on it and buy it.

0:12:12.280 --> 0:12:14.640
<v Speaker 5>And I don't really know that.

0:12:15.960 --> 0:12:17.880
<v Speaker 2>No, No, this was like this was actually this was

0:12:17.920 --> 0:12:20.559
<v Speaker 2>their first metal driver. They came out with this metal

0:12:20.640 --> 0:12:23.280
<v Speaker 2>driver and Jim Colbert was playing it and Michelle McGannon

0:12:23.320 --> 0:12:26.520
<v Speaker 2>was playing it and they had I walked. I was

0:12:26.559 --> 0:12:30.920
<v Speaker 2>a tour championship in ninety like ninety two, ninety three.

0:12:30.960 --> 0:12:33.880
<v Speaker 2>I followed Billy Mayfair had one in his bag anyway.

0:12:34.880 --> 0:12:36.680
<v Speaker 3>But you know, you go, you hear about these clubs.

0:12:36.720 --> 0:12:40.120
<v Speaker 2>And I subscribed to golf World because I wasn't, you know, degenerate,

0:12:40.160 --> 0:12:41.959
<v Speaker 2>and I'd see all these clubs that were winning every week,

0:12:42.000 --> 0:12:43.040
<v Speaker 2>and you'd want to go buy stuff.

0:12:43.040 --> 0:12:45.040
<v Speaker 3>And I don't really know that that's the case these.

0:12:44.880 --> 0:12:48.720
<v Speaker 2>Days, where you know, this club is one ex people

0:12:49.000 --> 0:12:51.400
<v Speaker 2>people are much more I think, in tune with what

0:12:51.440 --> 0:12:54.440
<v Speaker 2>they need now than they've ever been with equipment. And

0:12:54.480 --> 0:12:56.840
<v Speaker 2>I think that I think people to a wider extent

0:12:56.960 --> 0:12:59.120
<v Speaker 2>understand now that you know, you should play with what

0:12:59.200 --> 0:13:03.320
<v Speaker 2>fits your game versus what fits somebody else's game. And

0:13:03.480 --> 0:13:07.240
<v Speaker 2>you know, I I was talking to someone at golf

0:13:07.360 --> 0:13:10.240
<v Speaker 2>WRX and we were we were discussing, discussing, and he had

0:13:10.280 --> 0:13:12.000
<v Speaker 2>this really great phrase where his Johnny Wonder and he

0:13:12.040 --> 0:13:14.200
<v Speaker 2>had this great face where was taking ownership of your game.

0:13:14.200 --> 0:13:16.240
<v Speaker 2>And I think, to an extent, that's kind of what

0:13:16.360 --> 0:13:20.680
<v Speaker 2>that is. And I think, you know, people are more

0:13:20.760 --> 0:13:25.200
<v Speaker 2>so interested in taking a look at that now. And

0:13:25.240 --> 0:13:27.320
<v Speaker 2>it's just you know, as we've talked about, you know,

0:13:27.360 --> 0:13:29.760
<v Speaker 2>I think the last time I talked to you, just

0:13:29.800 --> 0:13:32.680
<v Speaker 2>in general, just just the depth that golf is gaining.

0:13:33.000 --> 0:13:34.840
<v Speaker 2>You know, I don't know that we're getting any bigger,

0:13:34.920 --> 0:13:36.839
<v Speaker 2>but the guys that really love the game, that are

0:13:36.840 --> 0:13:39.320
<v Speaker 2>really into the game, they're they're looking for different ways

0:13:39.360 --> 0:13:41.720
<v Speaker 2>to interact with the game and to go further down

0:13:41.720 --> 0:13:44.480
<v Speaker 2>that rabbit hole now than I think ever before, because

0:13:44.520 --> 0:13:46.880
<v Speaker 2>there are so many resources available to go down that

0:13:47.040 --> 0:13:50.800
<v Speaker 2>rabbit hole. You know, you're you know, the Friday being

0:13:50.800 --> 0:13:54.000
<v Speaker 2>one of them, obviously, but I mean there's there's a

0:13:55.000 --> 0:13:57.080
<v Speaker 2>there's just so many more conduits to kind of get

0:13:57.080 --> 0:13:59.520
<v Speaker 2>into that stuff now than there was twenty five thirty

0:13:59.559 --> 0:14:02.480
<v Speaker 2>years ago, which is part of the thing that's interesting

0:14:02.480 --> 0:14:04.440
<v Speaker 2>to me too, is the guys that you encounter that

0:14:04.480 --> 0:14:06.880
<v Speaker 2>are into this is like you have these younger guys

0:14:06.920 --> 0:14:09.000
<v Speaker 2>that are like in their twenties and early thirties, and

0:14:09.160 --> 0:14:10.840
<v Speaker 2>the same token, you have these guys that are like,

0:14:11.400 --> 0:14:13.320
<v Speaker 2>you know, in their fifties sixties, that have been around

0:14:13.360 --> 0:14:15.000
<v Speaker 2>golf their whole life, and then all of a sudden

0:14:15.000 --> 0:14:18.400
<v Speaker 2>they have just this vast amount of information available to

0:14:18.440 --> 0:14:22.479
<v Speaker 2>learn even more and they're getting even deeper into it.

0:14:23.480 --> 0:14:28.040
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, I mean the Internet, the Internet was made for

0:14:28.240 --> 0:14:31.080
<v Speaker 1>to allow people to nerd out. That's like the greatest

0:14:31.120 --> 0:14:33.560
<v Speaker 1>thing about the Internet is you can get like as

0:14:33.680 --> 0:14:37.560
<v Speaker 1>nerdy as you want about certain subjects like golf clubs,

0:14:37.600 --> 0:14:39.200
<v Speaker 1>golf course, architect.

0:14:39.360 --> 0:14:42.120
<v Speaker 2>Just about just about any subject. Although you know, man,

0:14:42.160 --> 0:14:45.600
<v Speaker 2>there's there's definitely there's there's definitely a bottom of that

0:14:45.680 --> 0:14:48.560
<v Speaker 2>whole point. There's certain there's still certain things that you

0:14:48.600 --> 0:14:50.840
<v Speaker 2>can't really find out a lot of information about online,

0:14:51.040 --> 0:14:53.800
<v Speaker 2>including kind of what we do and as far as

0:14:53.880 --> 0:14:56.040
<v Speaker 2>you know, designing golf clubs and the sol golf clubs,

0:14:56.040 --> 0:14:58.840
<v Speaker 2>that's not really anybody talks about. There's not really a

0:14:58.880 --> 0:15:01.560
<v Speaker 2>great resource for it really anywhere, and you know, as

0:15:01.600 --> 0:15:04.400
<v Speaker 2>Don likes to say, there's not really a school for it.

0:15:04.400 --> 0:15:08.080
<v Speaker 2>It's really Uh, it's just, you know, it just kind

0:15:08.080 --> 0:15:08.880
<v Speaker 2>of is what it is.

0:15:09.160 --> 0:15:12.000
<v Speaker 1>They say the secrets and the dirt, you know, that

0:15:12.120 --> 0:15:15.280
<v Speaker 1>famous saying, but it's really the secrets, secrets and the

0:15:15.360 --> 0:15:19.320
<v Speaker 1>soul for golf clubs. Absolutely, maybe that should be your

0:15:19.360 --> 0:15:26.040
<v Speaker 1>new say, But uh, what it so, I guess being

0:15:26.240 --> 0:15:30.920
<v Speaker 1>a noted gearhead and you've seen just the technological explosion

0:15:31.000 --> 0:15:34.640
<v Speaker 1>in golf, I'm curious, what would you say are kind

0:15:34.680 --> 0:15:39.240
<v Speaker 1>of the five or three to five biggest Yeah, equipment

0:15:39.720 --> 0:15:45.080
<v Speaker 1>innovation breakthroughs in the last twenty five years, in the.

0:15:45.080 --> 0:15:47.480
<v Speaker 2>Last twenty five years. That's okay, that's a good question.

0:15:47.480 --> 0:15:51.520
<v Speaker 5>Obviously, you could list ten if you want it.

0:15:51.640 --> 0:15:52.360
<v Speaker 1>I don't. I don't.

0:15:52.520 --> 0:15:54.680
<v Speaker 2>You know, there's I mean, there's there's been a lot

0:15:54.720 --> 0:15:58.440
<v Speaker 2>of kind of milestone points, you know, I mean going

0:15:58.480 --> 0:16:01.320
<v Speaker 2>back obviously, I mean, you know, early metal woods weren't

0:16:01.360 --> 0:16:03.400
<v Speaker 2>really any better than the persimmons that they were replacing.

0:16:03.480 --> 0:16:05.240
<v Speaker 2>I was actually thinking about this this morning, was like,

0:16:06.160 --> 0:16:09.480
<v Speaker 2>nobody had really won a major with a metal driver

0:16:09.600 --> 0:16:11.960
<v Speaker 2>until I think Olethabul in ninety four. I think that

0:16:12.040 --> 0:16:15.240
<v Speaker 2>was guys were still hitting persimmon up until then. There

0:16:15.240 --> 0:16:17.800
<v Speaker 2>was still some there were still some holdouts after you know,

0:16:18.000 --> 0:16:20.760
<v Speaker 2>you know Davis Love, I think in in Leonard being

0:16:20.800 --> 0:16:22.400
<v Speaker 2>the last two I was watching.

0:16:22.880 --> 0:16:27.640
<v Speaker 1>I was watching the ninety six Vegas Invite the other day,

0:16:27.840 --> 0:16:32.200
<v Speaker 1>the Tigers first win, and Davis Love was playing with

0:16:32.240 --> 0:16:34.880
<v Speaker 1>a Persimmon driver. I was I couldn't believe it.

0:16:36.080 --> 0:16:38.680
<v Speaker 3>He had a Cleveland TC fifteen in his bag.

0:16:38.840 --> 0:16:41.680
<v Speaker 2>He played that thing forever. The crazy thing is Freddy

0:16:41.760 --> 0:16:44.800
<v Speaker 2>played an old M eighty five. Freddie played like a

0:16:44.840 --> 0:16:49.080
<v Speaker 2>Persimmon driver that was from like the fifties. Forever, like

0:16:49.400 --> 0:16:55.240
<v Speaker 2>forever he played that driver. It was unbelievable until he

0:16:55.320 --> 0:16:56.920
<v Speaker 2>had a big Berth in his bag, and I think

0:16:56.920 --> 0:17:00.680
<v Speaker 2>that's what finally kicked it out. But he played that

0:17:00.760 --> 0:17:03.400
<v Speaker 2>thing forever. So back to your question, So you know,

0:17:03.720 --> 0:17:06.960
<v Speaker 2>obviously I'd say probably Big Bertha was like the first

0:17:07.000 --> 0:17:09.280
<v Speaker 2>growing up that that and like the eighty x two

0:17:09.400 --> 0:17:12.399
<v Speaker 2>hundred were like kind of a kind of a big deal.

0:17:12.480 --> 0:17:14.800
<v Speaker 2>Like this is like late eighties and you know, early

0:17:14.880 --> 0:17:18.000
<v Speaker 2>nineties for Bertha, because you know, you were starting to

0:17:18.000 --> 0:17:19.720
<v Speaker 2>get these heads that were engineered that were a little

0:17:19.720 --> 0:17:22.639
<v Speaker 2>bit bigger. They were putting different materials and heads of

0:17:22.800 --> 0:17:24.800
<v Speaker 2>them were used before you know, until then it was

0:17:24.880 --> 0:17:28.360
<v Speaker 2>metal and wood, and you know, graphite chefs and were

0:17:28.920 --> 0:17:31.119
<v Speaker 2>nowhere near as good as graphite chefs are now. They

0:17:31.160 --> 0:17:35.800
<v Speaker 2>were pretty high torque and kind of unpredictable, and so

0:17:35.840 --> 0:17:37.680
<v Speaker 2>that would be kind of a kind of a stepping

0:17:37.680 --> 0:17:43.800
<v Speaker 2>stone there, and then uh, you know, I would say, man,

0:17:43.840 --> 0:17:46.200
<v Speaker 2>the nineties were a crazy time for golf equipment. There's

0:17:46.200 --> 0:17:48.040
<v Speaker 2>a lot of interesting stuff that kind of came out

0:17:48.040 --> 0:17:52.000
<v Speaker 2>in the nineties, but that that next, maybe the next

0:17:52.000 --> 0:17:55.160
<v Speaker 2>big step from that was really when wound balls started

0:17:55.200 --> 0:17:59.560
<v Speaker 2>to give way to the multi layer balls grew up

0:18:01.400 --> 0:18:04.439
<v Speaker 2>the strata. The strata the top flight Strata was the

0:18:04.480 --> 0:18:07.600
<v Speaker 2>first one of those balls that was out in the market,

0:18:08.240 --> 0:18:10.280
<v Speaker 2>and it was dude, and it was such a weird ball.

0:18:11.720 --> 0:18:14.439
<v Speaker 2>I remember I bought I bought a dozen of them,

0:18:14.480 --> 0:18:17.280
<v Speaker 2>and I was going on a trip and I'd played.

0:18:17.359 --> 0:18:20.159
<v Speaker 2>I mean, man, I played Ballota forever I played, I

0:18:20.240 --> 0:18:23.720
<v Speaker 2>played the HT, I played the Tour Ballotta, I played

0:18:23.720 --> 0:18:26.639
<v Speaker 2>the professional. The last generation HT they made had a

0:18:26.680 --> 0:18:28.879
<v Speaker 2>year thane cover, so it was kind of durable. And

0:18:28.920 --> 0:18:31.720
<v Speaker 2>then Max Flay had this really awesome ball called the

0:18:31.880 --> 0:18:35.320
<v Speaker 2>Ram that was like the last gasp of great ballata balls.

0:18:35.359 --> 0:18:38.960
<v Speaker 2>It was like late nineties, early two thousands, and they

0:18:38.960 --> 0:18:41.639
<v Speaker 2>were like they were like sixty bucks a dozen, and

0:18:41.680 --> 0:18:43.520
<v Speaker 2>this is almost twenty years ago.

0:18:43.680 --> 0:18:47.360
<v Speaker 1>You know what I bought the other day for four dollars.

0:18:47.359 --> 0:18:49.959
<v Speaker 5>I saw that's the sleeve, the sleeve of two or

0:18:49.960 --> 0:18:51.120
<v Speaker 5>one hundreds.

0:18:50.880 --> 0:18:53.760
<v Speaker 3>Dude, golf. The thing that the funny thing is when

0:18:53.800 --> 0:18:54.720
<v Speaker 3>you think about.

0:18:54.440 --> 0:18:57.240
<v Speaker 2>This, like golf golf ball manufacturers would love to go

0:18:57.400 --> 0:18:59.280
<v Speaker 2>back to that because you think about what golf ball

0:18:59.320 --> 0:19:01.400
<v Speaker 2>prices were like twenty five years ago. They were about

0:19:01.400 --> 0:19:03.200
<v Speaker 2>to say that they were now. But golf balls are

0:19:03.240 --> 0:19:05.879
<v Speaker 2>so disposable. You get a bad shot with one of

0:19:05.920 --> 0:19:09.480
<v Speaker 2>those balls that it was done gone, I mean even gone,

0:19:09.640 --> 0:19:12.320
<v Speaker 2>just gone. Even if you were striking those balls. Well,

0:19:13.119 --> 0:19:15.160
<v Speaker 2>if you got a round out of a sleeveable lot

0:19:15.200 --> 0:19:17.440
<v Speaker 2>of balls, you were you were feeling pretty good about it.

0:19:17.480 --> 0:19:19.439
<v Speaker 2>And then the professional came out and that was like

0:19:20.080 --> 0:19:22.159
<v Speaker 2>the first ball that you could play more than a

0:19:22.240 --> 0:19:24.400
<v Speaker 2>round with and it would still you know, it would

0:19:24.400 --> 0:19:26.679
<v Speaker 2>still kind of hold up and eventually the cover kind

0:19:26.720 --> 0:19:28.840
<v Speaker 2>of shred and get beat up. But you could play

0:19:28.840 --> 0:19:31.119
<v Speaker 2>that thing for a while. But the strata was like,

0:19:31.200 --> 0:19:34.280
<v Speaker 2>you know, it did like the weirdest thing in flight.

0:19:34.320 --> 0:19:36.880
<v Speaker 2>I mean, I have so many memories of that ball,

0:19:36.960 --> 0:19:39.400
<v Speaker 2>like in flight, like you could just hit this bullet

0:19:39.400 --> 0:19:41.520
<v Speaker 2>with it, and on the way down it would just

0:19:41.600 --> 0:19:44.800
<v Speaker 2>kind of like drift like it would like drift left

0:19:44.800 --> 0:19:47.400
<v Speaker 2>and it would drift right. It would just kind of wobble.

0:19:47.560 --> 0:19:50.720
<v Speaker 2>I remember, it was just like wobble on the way down.

0:19:50.760 --> 0:19:52.040
<v Speaker 2>It was. It was really weird.

0:19:52.280 --> 0:19:55.160
<v Speaker 1>It had like a weird feel around the greens too,

0:19:55.400 --> 0:19:56.480
<v Speaker 1>as I remember.

0:19:56.320 --> 0:19:59.119
<v Speaker 2>They were just clicking as hell just basically, you know,

0:19:59.160 --> 0:20:01.119
<v Speaker 2>it was a distance ball with another you know, with

0:20:01.160 --> 0:20:03.800
<v Speaker 2>a with a layer in between the cover and the core.

0:20:05.640 --> 0:20:08.359
<v Speaker 2>And then obviously you know about that time too, you know,

0:20:08.400 --> 0:20:11.720
<v Speaker 2>the great big titanium drivers started coming out. So the

0:20:11.720 --> 0:20:13.879
<v Speaker 2>great big Bertha came out, which was like two hundred

0:20:13.920 --> 0:20:16.080
<v Speaker 2>and fifty see seeds that came out like late nineties,

0:20:16.680 --> 0:20:19.480
<v Speaker 2>and then like two thousand, the biggest big Bertha came out.

0:20:19.480 --> 0:20:22.040
<v Speaker 2>There was three hundred cecs, and you had, you know,

0:20:22.280 --> 0:20:24.520
<v Speaker 2>you started to have these really good titanium drivers. But

0:20:24.600 --> 0:20:27.520
<v Speaker 2>like the thing that really like was always really interesting

0:20:27.520 --> 0:20:29.080
<v Speaker 2>to me growing up was like when you're playing that

0:20:29.160 --> 0:20:31.959
<v Speaker 2>smaller headed driver, I mean, you really had to hit

0:20:32.000 --> 0:20:34.439
<v Speaker 2>it well to get it to perform, and you know,

0:20:34.480 --> 0:20:36.520
<v Speaker 2>I mean growing out playing junior golf. I mean, I

0:20:37.200 --> 0:20:39.239
<v Speaker 2>wasn't like the longest kid out there, but I was.

0:20:39.760 --> 0:20:42.959
<v Speaker 2>I was relatively long, and all of a sudden, you know,

0:20:43.080 --> 0:20:45.879
<v Speaker 2>you start getting this new stuff that's coming out, like

0:20:45.920 --> 0:20:48.639
<v Speaker 2>these larger heads, and all of a sudden, I wasn't

0:20:48.800 --> 0:20:51.000
<v Speaker 2>that long anymore, and the kids that I was twenty

0:20:51.040 --> 0:20:54.280
<v Speaker 2>thirty yards by were pretty close to me. And before

0:20:54.280 --> 0:20:56.200
<v Speaker 2>I you know, before you knew it. By the time,

0:20:56.240 --> 0:20:58.840
<v Speaker 2>everything had really kind of changed, like I don't know,

0:20:58.920 --> 0:21:02.880
<v Speaker 2>mid two thousands, I mean that that advantages didn't exist

0:21:02.880 --> 0:21:05.280
<v Speaker 2>anymore because you didn't have to you didn't have to

0:21:05.359 --> 0:21:07.280
<v Speaker 2>hit it on the screws every time to get as

0:21:07.359 --> 0:21:10.159
<v Speaker 2>much out of it. You just had you had some

0:21:10.160 --> 0:21:13.040
<v Speaker 2>some margin for aer but you know, you started to

0:21:13.040 --> 0:21:15.440
<v Speaker 2>see stuff grow, and then heads started to get bigger,

0:21:15.840 --> 0:21:19.080
<v Speaker 2>and then you know, I mean, I think the thing

0:21:19.119 --> 0:21:23.439
<v Speaker 2>that that really kind of it's interesting me, was there,

0:21:23.560 --> 0:21:25.480
<v Speaker 2>you know, there's a certain point in the road when

0:21:26.359 --> 0:21:31.199
<v Speaker 2>golf equipment was really designed to be accurate, and at

0:21:31.200 --> 0:21:34.159
<v Speaker 2>a certain point they decided that it was time to

0:21:34.200 --> 0:21:36.679
<v Speaker 2>engineer it to go far. And that was, you know,

0:21:36.800 --> 0:21:43.040
<v Speaker 2>really been the last oh the last ten years or

0:21:43.080 --> 0:21:45.760
<v Speaker 2>so really with irons that you've seen that, but.

0:21:46.640 --> 0:21:50.280
<v Speaker 1>It's that's the thing to me with irons is that

0:21:50.920 --> 0:21:53.359
<v Speaker 1>people market how far they hit it, But like the

0:21:53.400 --> 0:21:56.720
<v Speaker 1>point of iron is to hit it close.

0:21:57.760 --> 0:22:00.199
<v Speaker 2>Right, I mean that's I mean one hundred percent. I

0:22:00.359 --> 0:22:03.000
<v Speaker 2>you know, to me like that that you know, what

0:22:03.119 --> 0:22:05.560
<v Speaker 2>defines a good set of irons is, you know, consistent.

0:22:05.600 --> 0:22:07.479
<v Speaker 2>They do the same thing every time they you know,

0:22:08.240 --> 0:22:09.720
<v Speaker 2>you know, even if you miss it, it's going to

0:22:09.800 --> 0:22:13.000
<v Speaker 2>do the same thing every time. Consistency is that's you know,

0:22:13.119 --> 0:22:15.080
<v Speaker 2>that to me is the name of the game? Cares

0:22:15.119 --> 0:22:16.399
<v Speaker 2>what club you hit? If you can hit at the

0:22:16.400 --> 0:22:19.280
<v Speaker 2>same distance every time, I'm sure you wouldn't really care either.

0:22:20.680 --> 0:22:23.800
<v Speaker 1>So so I got a question for you. Yeah, I

0:22:24.200 --> 0:22:28.160
<v Speaker 1>think about this. My cousin carries a uh still carries

0:22:28.200 --> 0:22:31.760
<v Speaker 1>his fat shaft five five? Would where does where's the

0:22:31.800 --> 0:22:36.360
<v Speaker 1>fat shaft rank? And in terms of maybe worst innovation

0:22:36.560 --> 0:22:37.399
<v Speaker 1>ideas of all.

0:22:37.320 --> 0:22:41.360
<v Speaker 2>Time, it certainly wasn't a great one. I mean it's

0:22:41.400 --> 0:22:43.960
<v Speaker 2>just the whole, the whole, the whole, Like the whole

0:22:43.960 --> 0:22:47.000
<v Speaker 2>premise with those was like they're just so thick they

0:22:47.000 --> 0:22:49.159
<v Speaker 2>don't tork. It was like just supposed to be just

0:22:49.359 --> 0:22:52.960
<v Speaker 2>you know, but certainly not a great Yeah, certainly not

0:22:53.000 --> 0:22:53.640
<v Speaker 2>a great one.

0:22:54.720 --> 0:22:57.320
<v Speaker 1>It's so funny. He brings it out and he never

0:22:57.400 --> 0:22:59.119
<v Speaker 1>hits it. He carries it. I don't know why he

0:22:59.200 --> 0:22:59.600
<v Speaker 1>carries it.

0:23:00.240 --> 0:23:01.960
<v Speaker 2>Have you hit it? Have you like taken it out

0:23:01.960 --> 0:23:02.760
<v Speaker 2>of his bag and hit it?

0:23:03.040 --> 0:23:06.199
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, I mean the fun Yeah, the funniest thing is

0:23:06.240 --> 0:23:08.840
<v Speaker 1>swinging it. When you're practice swinging and hearing the.

0:23:10.640 --> 0:23:14.119
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, it's almost like swingy Hickory. You almost get's like

0:23:14.119 --> 0:23:20.199
<v Speaker 2>almost like a similar like auditory deal with that. But

0:23:20.280 --> 0:23:21.960
<v Speaker 2>you know, kind of going back to what, you know,

0:23:22.000 --> 0:23:26.000
<v Speaker 2>what what we were talking about. You know. The thing

0:23:26.080 --> 0:23:28.120
<v Speaker 2>too that that's fascinating to me right now is I've

0:23:28.119 --> 0:23:31.160
<v Speaker 2>been around golf a long time and and just lately

0:23:31.359 --> 0:23:34.520
<v Speaker 2>like just how much interest there there is in playing

0:23:34.600 --> 0:23:39.320
<v Speaker 2>with older equipment. You know, like ten years ago or

0:23:39.400 --> 0:23:42.080
<v Speaker 2>so was just kind of a funny novelty. But I

0:23:42.119 --> 0:23:44.560
<v Speaker 2>mean there's guys that are really into it, and it's

0:23:44.840 --> 0:23:47.399
<v Speaker 2>I don't know, I think I know you've been playing

0:23:47.400 --> 0:23:49.120
<v Speaker 2>with that that driver, that.

0:23:51.080 --> 0:23:52.919
<v Speaker 1>Uh golf driver man.

0:23:53.240 --> 0:23:56.800
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, the Jeremy the driver that Jerryman gave you. I mean,

0:23:57.480 --> 0:23:59.040
<v Speaker 2>how's that? I mean, how has that been for you?

0:23:59.119 --> 0:23:59.840
<v Speaker 2>Has that been like?

0:24:00.080 --> 0:24:01.760
<v Speaker 3>Because I mean I I had a pretty I had

0:24:02.000 --> 0:24:03.600
<v Speaker 3>I had about like two.

0:24:03.480 --> 0:24:06.040
<v Speaker 2>Thousand and eight to twenty thirteen. I could not hit

0:24:06.119 --> 0:24:08.760
<v Speaker 2>a four hundred and sixty cc driver, and I gave

0:24:08.840 --> 0:24:11.160
<v Speaker 2>up trying and I played precison. I played per Simmon

0:24:11.200 --> 0:24:12.760
<v Speaker 2>pretty much all the time like for that, and it

0:24:12.880 --> 0:24:15.920
<v Speaker 2>like gave me like this, I don't know, gave me

0:24:16.000 --> 0:24:18.840
<v Speaker 2>a deeper understanding for architecture playing with that stuff, because

0:24:18.880 --> 0:24:20.879
<v Speaker 2>you really did have to hit good t shots because

0:24:21.720 --> 0:24:24.679
<v Speaker 2>you know that twenty five thirty yards of carry distance

0:24:24.680 --> 0:24:26.879
<v Speaker 2>that you're losing with that really puts a premium on

0:24:27.840 --> 0:24:31.159
<v Speaker 2>hitting at the right planting in the right place, and

0:24:31.200 --> 0:24:33.159
<v Speaker 2>all of a sudden, the bunkers and details that you

0:24:33.160 --> 0:24:36.240
<v Speaker 2>weren't thinking of with the metal driver are like, oh,

0:24:36.440 --> 0:24:38.480
<v Speaker 2>like it's just it's a different it's just like a

0:24:38.520 --> 0:24:40.119
<v Speaker 2>different deal. Yeah.

0:24:40.160 --> 0:24:43.399
<v Speaker 1>So it's been It's been awesome. I love it. I

0:24:44.560 --> 0:24:47.960
<v Speaker 1>think like what I've found that's been fascinating is is

0:24:48.400 --> 0:24:53.480
<v Speaker 1>like stuff that I never would even see with like

0:24:53.520 --> 0:24:56.639
<v Speaker 1>when I'm when I've got my regular equipment, like my

0:24:56.880 --> 0:24:59.760
<v Speaker 1>you know, if I was I don't even see these

0:25:00.000 --> 0:25:03.640
<v Speaker 1>bunkers and you know. It was eye opening. Is if

0:25:03.640 --> 0:25:07.080
<v Speaker 1>you can pair it with like the older golf equipment,

0:25:07.520 --> 0:25:10.320
<v Speaker 1>it's even like it's crazy. I mean when you're hitting

0:25:10.440 --> 0:25:13.600
<v Speaker 1>like two twenty five drives and you're accustomed to hitting

0:25:13.600 --> 0:25:17.639
<v Speaker 1>at three hundred, it's it's insane. You the appreciation you

0:25:17.680 --> 0:25:22.359
<v Speaker 1>have for the game. Like I played National Golf Links

0:25:23.359 --> 0:25:27.400
<v Speaker 1>with with a Hickory and a Ballata ball and it

0:25:27.440 --> 0:25:31.520
<v Speaker 1>was the maxifly ht actually, and it.

0:25:31.440 --> 0:25:33.720
<v Speaker 2>Was were you playing when you're playing your gamer irons

0:25:33.760 --> 0:25:34.040
<v Speaker 2>or what.

0:25:33.960 --> 0:25:37.479
<v Speaker 5>Iron gamer irons, But like the ball, you're still losing it.

0:25:37.560 --> 0:25:39.159
<v Speaker 2>You're still losing at least a club.

0:25:39.440 --> 0:25:43.160
<v Speaker 1>Oh no, it's like it was like twenty five yards. Yeah,

0:25:43.400 --> 0:25:46.360
<v Speaker 1>I mean like the the way and then when you're

0:25:46.400 --> 0:25:49.119
<v Speaker 1>hitting into the wind, it's just a whole different game.

0:25:49.320 --> 0:25:50.000
<v Speaker 1>It's it's just.

0:25:50.400 --> 0:25:53.200
<v Speaker 2>Because the ball because the ball spun had those ball

0:25:53.280 --> 0:25:54.120
<v Speaker 2>spin like.

0:25:55.560 --> 0:25:56.479
<v Speaker 3>It's like a wall.

0:25:56.800 --> 0:25:59.400
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, like if you hit you yeah, it's it's it's

0:25:59.520 --> 0:26:03.000
<v Speaker 2>it's very it's very very different playing with that stuff.

0:26:03.240 --> 0:26:05.400
<v Speaker 1>So it's it's been an interest I play. I play

0:26:05.440 --> 0:26:08.919
<v Speaker 1>that Hickory driver with a regular ball and it's like

0:26:09.000 --> 0:26:11.320
<v Speaker 1>forty yards if I go back with the Ballatta it's

0:26:11.320 --> 0:26:15.600
<v Speaker 1>like eighty seventy five yards. It's just a and it

0:26:15.640 --> 0:26:20.160
<v Speaker 1>breaks makes the architecture so much more, you know, fascinating

0:26:20.240 --> 0:26:23.440
<v Speaker 1>because like what I think is I was talking with

0:26:23.520 --> 0:26:26.200
<v Speaker 1>somebody today about this. Is it like you just can't

0:26:26.240 --> 0:26:28.560
<v Speaker 1>overpower a golf course. You have to have the full

0:26:28.680 --> 0:26:30.520
<v Speaker 1>array of skills, which to me.

0:26:30.520 --> 0:26:33.359
<v Speaker 2>Is it's just that's how it was, and that's how

0:26:33.400 --> 0:26:36.200
<v Speaker 2>it was. You know, one hundred years ago you had

0:26:36.200 --> 0:26:37.919
<v Speaker 2>to have a full you had to have everything to

0:26:37.920 --> 0:26:40.760
<v Speaker 2>play good golf. Yeah, and with everything now, I mean,

0:26:40.960 --> 0:26:43.000
<v Speaker 2>the game is just I mean, you know, it's you know,

0:26:43.080 --> 0:26:44.800
<v Speaker 2>I was kind of going on with you on Twitter

0:26:44.840 --> 0:26:47.600
<v Speaker 2>the other day. It's just like it's so glaringly one dimensional.

0:26:49.119 --> 0:26:51.720
<v Speaker 5>I think I had this awakening.

0:26:51.800 --> 0:26:54.520
<v Speaker 1>I had this awakening. I was playing the State Am

0:26:55.040 --> 0:26:58.240
<v Speaker 1>two years ago. It was a twenty seventeen Illinois State

0:26:58.280 --> 0:27:02.399
<v Speaker 1>Am and we're playing a sixty seven hundred yard course

0:27:02.520 --> 0:27:05.840
<v Speaker 1>that's a par seventy, and like I'm midway through my

0:27:05.920 --> 0:27:08.320
<v Speaker 1>second round and I'm thinking to myself, I'm like, God,

0:27:08.359 --> 0:27:10.920
<v Speaker 1>like I haven't hit more than a nine iron into

0:27:10.960 --> 0:27:15.399
<v Speaker 1>a green, Like what is what is going on? You know?

0:27:15.520 --> 0:27:18.720
<v Speaker 1>Like what like this is not the game that I

0:27:18.720 --> 0:27:19.520
<v Speaker 1>grew up playing.

0:27:19.680 --> 0:27:22.000
<v Speaker 2>Yeah yeah, no, the game you grew up playing. You

0:27:22.080 --> 0:27:24.480
<v Speaker 2>use your whole bag, yeah.

0:27:24.320 --> 0:27:27.560
<v Speaker 1>You know, and it's it's frustrating for like I think,

0:27:27.680 --> 0:27:30.800
<v Speaker 1>like where I get frustrated and this is all like

0:27:30.840 --> 0:27:33.679
<v Speaker 1>I think one of the biggest problems with with golf

0:27:33.760 --> 0:27:36.520
<v Speaker 1>is people have a hard time removing their personal bias.

0:27:38.119 --> 0:27:41.080
<v Speaker 1>And like one of the things I've done well in

0:27:41.240 --> 0:27:45.159
<v Speaker 1>golf is like long iron play, and it's so insignificant.

0:27:45.200 --> 0:27:49.320
<v Speaker 2>Now, yeah, I'm the sign of the same boat man.

0:27:49.359 --> 0:27:51.720
<v Speaker 2>My long irons used to be my favorite. You know,

0:27:51.720 --> 0:27:53.840
<v Speaker 2>there's still my favorite clubs. They were like weapons, but

0:27:53.960 --> 0:27:56.360
<v Speaker 2>now there's like whatever, like.

0:27:56.359 --> 0:28:00.359
<v Speaker 1>You see it as Sweeten's Cove, Like Sweeten's Cove is

0:28:00.359 --> 0:28:03.439
<v Speaker 1>a good example, Like it's such an awesome course because

0:28:03.480 --> 0:28:08.680
<v Speaker 1>of the way, you know, the birdie and triple bogie's

0:28:08.760 --> 0:28:12.520
<v Speaker 1>always in play. But like the thing that happens is

0:28:12.560 --> 0:28:15.880
<v Speaker 1>like with the way the ball is in the clubs,

0:28:15.920 --> 0:28:17.919
<v Speaker 1>like you could you get wedges into a lot of

0:28:17.920 --> 0:28:21.399
<v Speaker 1>those greens. And there's very rarely a long iron unless

0:28:21.440 --> 0:28:23.400
<v Speaker 1>it's a second shot into par five.

0:28:25.440 --> 0:28:26.840
<v Speaker 2>I mean, it depends on how you play it. I

0:28:26.880 --> 0:28:29.240
<v Speaker 2>mean I actually hit a lot of long irons out

0:28:29.240 --> 0:28:31.600
<v Speaker 2>there off the tee. Uh huh, I mean there's I

0:28:31.720 --> 0:28:34.199
<v Speaker 2>kind of I don't know, man, I'm an idiot.

0:28:34.280 --> 0:28:35.680
<v Speaker 1>I played that driver everywhere.

0:28:35.760 --> 0:28:36.080
<v Speaker 2>Huh.

0:28:36.119 --> 0:28:37.280
<v Speaker 1>I hit driver everywhere.

0:28:37.359 --> 0:28:40.920
<v Speaker 2>I don't. I'm I just like I you know, I

0:28:41.080 --> 0:28:46.080
<v Speaker 2>hit driver out there. I hit driver on three, I

0:28:46.160 --> 0:28:51.760
<v Speaker 2>hit driver on six, and that's usually about it. If

0:28:51.960 --> 0:28:55.800
<v Speaker 2>I'm feeling really good and the ball's going I all

0:28:55.880 --> 0:28:59.520
<v Speaker 2>hit driver on one. I mean, I don't even think

0:28:59.560 --> 0:29:03.080
<v Speaker 2>about it. On five, I don't think about it. On seven, eight.

0:29:03.160 --> 0:29:04.920
<v Speaker 2>I kind of have a spot that I really like

0:29:05.000 --> 0:29:07.960
<v Speaker 2>on the right side. That's you know, drivers a little.

0:29:08.360 --> 0:29:10.880
<v Speaker 2>I don't need to kind of overkill I could. The

0:29:10.880 --> 0:29:12.560
<v Speaker 2>way I play that golf course, I hit a lot

0:29:12.960 --> 0:29:15.440
<v Speaker 2>lot of three four five irons and spots, you know,

0:29:15.640 --> 0:29:17.440
<v Speaker 2>three irons a club in my hand walking up to

0:29:17.480 --> 0:29:21.120
<v Speaker 2>seven te box. But I mean that's you know, that's

0:29:21.160 --> 0:29:23.680
<v Speaker 2>the fun thing about Sweden. Excuse me, that is the

0:29:23.680 --> 0:29:25.560
<v Speaker 2>fun thing about Sweden's is there's so many different ways

0:29:25.560 --> 0:29:27.720
<v Speaker 2>to play. I've I played the golf course with Rob.

0:29:27.880 --> 0:29:29.720
<v Speaker 2>I mean, I can't even tell you how many times.

0:29:29.720 --> 0:29:32.240
<v Speaker 2>And I always laugh because like we go up to

0:29:32.280 --> 0:29:33.640
<v Speaker 2>we walk up to the t. He's got a driver

0:29:33.680 --> 0:29:36.280
<v Speaker 2>in his hand. It's like, dude, can I just like

0:29:36.360 --> 0:29:39.080
<v Speaker 2>play one round with you where I just have you

0:29:39.160 --> 0:29:42.920
<v Speaker 2>hit in spots because Rob's Rob's got some game and

0:29:43.000 --> 0:29:45.320
<v Speaker 2>he just always he just brings a big number and

0:29:45.360 --> 0:29:48.880
<v Speaker 2>play like just it's just automatic. He's got driver in

0:29:48.920 --> 0:29:52.520
<v Speaker 2>his hands. But I mean that's you know, it's funny

0:29:52.680 --> 0:29:54.240
<v Speaker 2>that golf course. Man, If I.

0:29:54.200 --> 0:29:57.600
<v Speaker 1>Play competitively, I play, I hit I just three iron

0:29:57.680 --> 0:30:00.680
<v Speaker 1>to death courses. But if I'm not playing pintively, I

0:30:00.720 --> 0:30:04.200
<v Speaker 1>just I hit driver everywhere because like I'm like whatever.

0:30:04.480 --> 0:30:07.320
<v Speaker 1>You know, listeners that don't know you, you've gained quite

0:30:07.400 --> 0:30:10.640
<v Speaker 1>the Internet fame because of your role at Sweeten's Cove

0:30:10.800 --> 0:30:13.640
<v Speaker 1>and you've been you were the GM there for a

0:30:13.760 --> 0:30:16.560
<v Speaker 1>number a number of years. How did you get how

0:30:16.600 --> 0:30:19.160
<v Speaker 1>did you even find Sweeten's Cove? How how did you

0:30:19.200 --> 0:30:19.680
<v Speaker 1>get there?

0:30:21.480 --> 0:30:22.360
<v Speaker 2>I don't know about fame.

0:30:22.480 --> 0:30:29.400
<v Speaker 1>Man, Your vavimans precede you.

0:30:29.400 --> 0:30:33.080
<v Speaker 2>You have the vave clouds that are actually on the

0:30:33.080 --> 0:30:36.600
<v Speaker 2>ballpark blueprint. I'm talking to Tom that did that. He's like, yeah, man,

0:30:36.640 --> 0:30:38.560
<v Speaker 2>look like there's a cloud on the edge of the

0:30:38.680 --> 0:30:40.880
<v Speaker 2>deck on the blueprint. I'm like, dude, come on, you

0:30:40.920 --> 0:30:44.040
<v Speaker 2>look really close and they're actually as a cloud. But anyway,

0:30:45.600 --> 0:30:48.720
<v Speaker 2>so the first time I saw Sweetens was November. I

0:30:48.760 --> 0:30:53.000
<v Speaker 2>think it was November fifth of twenty and thirteen. You know,

0:30:53.080 --> 0:30:55.600
<v Speaker 2>I had a business called Scratch Golf with my partner.

0:30:55.640 --> 0:30:59.120
<v Speaker 2>Ari's one of my partners in National Custom Works. But

0:30:59.200 --> 0:31:01.160
<v Speaker 2>we had Scratch Golf and we were in we were

0:31:01.160 --> 0:31:04.480
<v Speaker 2>in Chattanooga, Tennessee, and we'd moved the business here from

0:31:04.520 --> 0:31:07.640
<v Speaker 2>Eugene in two thousand and nine, and we we'd moved

0:31:07.800 --> 0:31:11.280
<v Speaker 2>everything up to Michigan in twenty thirteen. I'd moved up

0:31:11.320 --> 0:31:14.320
<v Speaker 2>there August of that year, and I was down here

0:31:14.360 --> 0:31:16.480
<v Speaker 2>to get my wife to move her up there. And

0:31:17.240 --> 0:31:20.920
<v Speaker 2>we we'd driven the day before out to out to

0:31:21.160 --> 0:31:25.280
<v Speaker 2>uh out here to see her and just my friend

0:31:25.320 --> 0:31:27.760
<v Speaker 2>Ari is like one of the greatest golf degenerates that

0:31:27.840 --> 0:31:31.560
<v Speaker 2>I know. The So the night before we're getting ready

0:31:31.600 --> 0:31:32.880
<v Speaker 2>to leave, he's like, where do you want to play

0:31:32.880 --> 0:31:35.080
<v Speaker 2>on the way down, and I list off a couple

0:31:35.040 --> 0:31:37.480
<v Speaker 2>of places I thought might be fun to stop. I think, Camargo,

0:31:38.120 --> 0:31:40.320
<v Speaker 2>I'm trying to remember where else. I mean, this is

0:31:40.320 --> 0:31:41.720
<v Speaker 2>I'm trying to remember where else. I was saying we

0:31:41.760 --> 0:31:45.120
<v Speaker 2>could stop and he's like, uh, ay man, let's go

0:31:45.120 --> 0:31:48.160
<v Speaker 2>play Oakmont. All right, well let's nowhere near on the wave,

0:31:48.200 --> 0:31:50.200
<v Speaker 2>but all right, cool, so we go. We played.

0:31:50.640 --> 0:31:52.640
<v Speaker 3>So we leave, We leave Detroit at like four in

0:31:52.680 --> 0:31:53.160
<v Speaker 3>the morning.

0:31:53.240 --> 0:31:56.200
<v Speaker 2>We drive to Pittsburgh. We play Oakmont, We get in

0:31:56.280 --> 0:31:59.360
<v Speaker 2>the car and we drive from Pittsburgh straight to Chattanooga.

0:31:59.800 --> 0:32:02.160
<v Speaker 2>And the next morning we've got we've got a meeting

0:32:02.200 --> 0:32:06.000
<v Speaker 2>with Rob and the superintendent. It looked at my on

0:32:06.040 --> 0:32:08.080
<v Speaker 2>golf Club at the time of a guy named Mark Stillwall,

0:32:08.120 --> 0:32:10.920
<v Speaker 2>who's who Me and Ari were still good friends with Mark,

0:32:11.480 --> 0:32:13.360
<v Speaker 2>and he, uh, he was the one that was going

0:32:13.360 --> 0:32:14.080
<v Speaker 2>on and on about it.

0:32:14.160 --> 0:32:16.560
<v Speaker 3>We've we've seen pictures and stuff.

0:32:16.280 --> 0:32:20.440
<v Speaker 2>On on g C, a of of of Sweetens as

0:32:20.480 --> 0:32:23.160
<v Speaker 2>it was kind of coming together, and kind of knew

0:32:23.320 --> 0:32:24.760
<v Speaker 2>kind of knew it was out there, but we hadn't

0:32:24.800 --> 0:32:26.840
<v Speaker 2>you know, hadn't really gone out there and checked it out.

0:32:26.840 --> 0:32:28.800
<v Speaker 2>At that point. It was still you know, still kind

0:32:28.800 --> 0:32:30.880
<v Speaker 2>of in the early stages. Well, I mean this is

0:32:31.360 --> 0:32:33.800
<v Speaker 2>when I saw it on GCA. It was well anyway,

0:32:33.880 --> 0:32:36.080
<v Speaker 2>So so Mark really got us in touch with Rob

0:32:36.880 --> 0:32:40.600
<v Speaker 2>and we met Rob. We were robing that the next

0:32:40.600 --> 0:32:45.600
<v Speaker 2>morning at Sweeten's and I'll never forget it, man, I'll

0:32:45.640 --> 0:32:48.920
<v Speaker 2>never forget pulling up in this van and there's this

0:32:49.000 --> 0:32:53.880
<v Speaker 2>golf course just spread out and it's mostly finished. I

0:32:54.320 --> 0:32:57.959
<v Speaker 2>think the first time I saw it, it probably hadn't

0:32:58.000 --> 0:33:01.560
<v Speaker 2>seen a mower for about at least four or five months.

0:33:02.040 --> 0:33:06.400
<v Speaker 2>There was sand and probably fifty sixty percent of the bunkers,

0:33:06.440 --> 0:33:08.120
<v Speaker 2>but it was, you know, it was at a point

0:33:08.160 --> 0:33:10.600
<v Speaker 2>where if nothing happened, that was pretty much going to

0:33:10.680 --> 0:33:13.840
<v Speaker 2>be going to be it. And we walked the golf

0:33:13.880 --> 0:33:17.000
<v Speaker 2>course with Rob, and we didn't the.

0:33:16.920 --> 0:33:17.680
<v Speaker 3>First time we walked it.

0:33:17.720 --> 0:33:19.480
<v Speaker 2>We didn't bring our co We just went out there

0:33:19.680 --> 0:33:22.480
<v Speaker 2>walking with Rob and his two dogs, and we're just

0:33:22.560 --> 0:33:24.880
<v Speaker 2>kind of going on and talking, talking with Rob as

0:33:24.880 --> 0:33:26.840
<v Speaker 2>we're kind of noticing and seeing all these things. And

0:33:26.920 --> 0:33:29.960
<v Speaker 2>that the fascinating thing to me was was talking to

0:33:30.040 --> 0:33:33.080
<v Speaker 2>Rob and really kind of picking his brain about the

0:33:33.120 --> 0:33:35.840
<v Speaker 2>golf courses that he'd seen and what his influences were,

0:33:36.560 --> 0:33:40.760
<v Speaker 2>and other than going overseas and seeing some golf in Scotland,

0:33:40.760 --> 0:33:43.040
<v Speaker 2>he really hadn't seen that much golf in the US

0:33:43.040 --> 0:33:45.880
<v Speaker 2>at that point. He's seen quite a bit more since then,

0:33:45.920 --> 0:33:49.920
<v Speaker 2>but you know, he really hadn't seen very much, and

0:33:50.040 --> 0:33:53.240
<v Speaker 2>in front of us were all these really cool little

0:33:53.280 --> 0:33:56.720
<v Speaker 2>details and strategic elements that you know, we've both seen

0:33:56.760 --> 0:33:59.800
<v Speaker 2>at other courses, and it's just just the way everything

0:33:59.840 --> 0:34:02.400
<v Speaker 2>was arranged and put together was just really interesting. And

0:34:02.520 --> 0:34:04.840
<v Speaker 2>here's here's a here's a person that's seen pictures of

0:34:05.080 --> 0:34:07.840
<v Speaker 2>you know, seeing pictures of this hazard, seeing you know,

0:34:08.080 --> 0:34:13.440
<v Speaker 2>seeing Tenant PV, seeing the Devil's asshole. You know, just

0:34:13.440 --> 0:34:15.719
<v Speaker 2>just how everything was arranged with just you know, just

0:34:15.800 --> 0:34:19.839
<v Speaker 2>kind of his instincts and his creativity, and it just,

0:34:19.960 --> 0:34:21.960
<v Speaker 2>you know, I was just really really impressed with the

0:34:21.960 --> 0:34:25.719
<v Speaker 2>golf course. And we got done walking around it, and

0:34:25.800 --> 0:34:27.920
<v Speaker 2>I still have I still have all these pictures the

0:34:27.920 --> 0:34:29.560
<v Speaker 2>first time I saw it that I still look at

0:34:29.560 --> 0:34:32.279
<v Speaker 2>once in a while. And we get done and he

0:34:32.360 --> 0:34:33.719
<v Speaker 2>just kind of looks at it and he says, y'all

0:34:33.760 --> 0:34:36.799
<v Speaker 2>want to go play? And we and we are like, hell, yeah,

0:34:36.840 --> 0:34:39.080
<v Speaker 2>we want to go play. So we grab our clubs

0:34:39.120 --> 0:34:40.840
<v Speaker 2>and we run out, and I think we played. I

0:34:40.880 --> 0:34:43.000
<v Speaker 2>think we we looped at I think we looped at

0:34:43.040 --> 0:34:46.440
<v Speaker 2>three times, and we forgot about the time change and

0:34:46.480 --> 0:34:48.160
<v Speaker 2>he had to he had to fly out, and I

0:34:48.200 --> 0:34:50.680
<v Speaker 2>had to drive back then we've like I think we're

0:34:50.719 --> 0:34:53.520
<v Speaker 2>on like three or four, and we just like realized, crap,

0:34:53.560 --> 0:34:55.680
<v Speaker 2>we got to get out of here, and you know,

0:34:55.840 --> 0:34:57.879
<v Speaker 2>we kind of left and just you know, the whole

0:34:57.880 --> 0:34:59.879
<v Speaker 2>way home, we were just talking about the golf course,

0:35:00.480 --> 0:35:04.960
<v Speaker 2>and he and Rob got really he got involved with

0:35:04.960 --> 0:35:08.520
<v Speaker 2>the project in Rob as far as getting getting the

0:35:08.600 --> 0:35:11.239
<v Speaker 2>lease of the golf course going. They were able to

0:35:11.239 --> 0:35:14.440
<v Speaker 2>secure a lease on the course. It's like March I

0:35:14.480 --> 0:35:19.440
<v Speaker 2>think of two thousand and fourteen, and then I was

0:35:19.520 --> 0:35:22.879
<v Speaker 2>up in Michigan, and and then my wife didn't really

0:35:22.960 --> 0:35:25.960
<v Speaker 2>want to live in Michigan anymore, so I moved her

0:35:26.040 --> 0:35:28.440
<v Speaker 2>down here in July of fourteen. I moved down here

0:35:28.440 --> 0:35:31.520
<v Speaker 2>in October of fourteen, just just the beginning of the month,

0:35:32.600 --> 0:35:36.960
<v Speaker 2>just before the golf course opened, and I came out

0:35:36.960 --> 0:35:43.200
<v Speaker 2>for opening day, and Ron Whitten was there, Adam Lawrence

0:35:43.280 --> 0:35:45.200
<v Speaker 2>was there, there were a few other folks that were there.

0:35:46.440 --> 0:35:49.480
<v Speaker 2>Rob's partner, Tad came out and we played the golf

0:35:49.480 --> 0:35:51.640
<v Speaker 2>course and just, I mean, dude, it was so it

0:35:51.719 --> 0:35:54.640
<v Speaker 2>was so tight. I still laugh at how I mean, dude,

0:35:54.680 --> 0:35:56.640
<v Speaker 2>like opening day it was. It was so good. But

0:35:57.960 --> 0:36:00.839
<v Speaker 2>I digress. But what had happened at that point was

0:36:00.960 --> 0:36:03.239
<v Speaker 2>they'd gotten the golf course finished, they gotten the golf

0:36:03.239 --> 0:36:07.239
<v Speaker 2>course open, and they ran out of money. And I

0:36:07.280 --> 0:36:10.600
<v Speaker 2>mean basically closing day they was the well was dry

0:36:10.880 --> 0:36:13.560
<v Speaker 2>and that was it. So the people that had you know,

0:36:13.680 --> 0:36:16.680
<v Speaker 2>really you know, helped get the golf course ready to

0:36:16.719 --> 0:36:19.279
<v Speaker 2>go and ready to get open. That was pretty much it.

0:36:19.360 --> 0:36:22.960
<v Speaker 2>And Rob called me, I think the next day after

0:36:23.360 --> 0:36:26.279
<v Speaker 2>after that, and he, uh he said, well, uh, well,

0:36:26.320 --> 0:36:27.840
<v Speaker 2>I don't know what you got going on, but I

0:36:27.880 --> 0:36:30.960
<v Speaker 2>need somebody out to run the golf course. And you know,

0:36:30.960 --> 0:36:33.279
<v Speaker 2>would you be interested in would you be interested in

0:36:33.320 --> 0:36:36.359
<v Speaker 2>coming out and keeping an eye on it and you know,

0:36:36.600 --> 0:36:40.560
<v Speaker 2>and being the manager. And I said sure. So that's

0:36:40.640 --> 0:36:42.839
<v Speaker 2>kind of how everything started. And you know, the next

0:36:42.920 --> 0:36:45.839
<v Speaker 2>day I was out there and we started off. We

0:36:45.920 --> 0:36:48.360
<v Speaker 2>had a we actually we had a tent. It was

0:36:48.480 --> 0:36:51.360
<v Speaker 2>up above uh there's a power poll up above the

0:36:51.400 --> 0:36:53.400
<v Speaker 2>back to you on one. We had a ten up

0:36:53.440 --> 0:36:56.319
<v Speaker 2>there for about two or three weeks and it blew

0:36:56.360 --> 0:37:00.959
<v Speaker 2>away and then we got the shed. And that first winter,

0:37:01.600 --> 0:37:03.600
<v Speaker 2>that first winter I was out there. It was it

0:37:03.640 --> 0:37:06.160
<v Speaker 2>was me and Rob and we were you know, I

0:37:06.560 --> 0:37:08.319
<v Speaker 2>was sitting up there and he was out on the

0:37:08.320 --> 0:37:10.920
<v Speaker 2>sand throw he was out doing maintenance stuff, and it

0:37:10.960 --> 0:37:13.360
<v Speaker 2>was it was a two of us, and it was like, man,

0:37:14.760 --> 0:37:16.759
<v Speaker 2>what you know, how's this, How's this going to work out?

0:37:16.760 --> 0:37:19.680
<v Speaker 2>How's this going to go down? So we, uh, you know,

0:37:19.719 --> 0:37:22.880
<v Speaker 2>we just kind of sat around that winter and came

0:37:22.960 --> 0:37:26.080
<v Speaker 2>up with some ideas and got the golf course opened.

0:37:26.120 --> 0:37:29.040
<v Speaker 2>And you know, the first year wasn't you know, we

0:37:29.040 --> 0:37:31.160
<v Speaker 2>didn't kill I wouldn't say we killed it our first year,

0:37:31.200 --> 0:37:34.480
<v Speaker 2>but you know, started to get some notoriety and people

0:37:34.520 --> 0:37:37.319
<v Speaker 2>started to come out, and then you know, the following year,

0:37:37.320 --> 0:37:40.680
<v Speaker 2>it just did it really did a really snowballed, you know,

0:37:41.719 --> 0:37:44.480
<v Speaker 2>as far as how that place kind of was released

0:37:44.480 --> 0:37:47.319
<v Speaker 2>into the wild. It it just kind of really snowballed.

0:37:47.320 --> 0:37:50.360
<v Speaker 2>We we tried initially when we got everything started, we

0:37:50.440 --> 0:37:54.719
<v Speaker 2>tried some pretty traditional advertising and marketing stuff. We did.

0:37:55.680 --> 0:37:57.840
<v Speaker 2>We did some print ads, we did some radio stuff,

0:37:57.880 --> 0:37:59.799
<v Speaker 2>and we even we did some TV ads. I think

0:38:00.760 --> 0:38:03.160
<v Speaker 2>I think we did those in twenty sixteen. We did

0:38:03.160 --> 0:38:08.440
<v Speaker 2>those around the majors, but really kind of where we

0:38:08.560 --> 0:38:12.279
<v Speaker 2>where we saw the best. And you know, obviously the

0:38:12.320 --> 0:38:14.840
<v Speaker 2>most organic, you know, growth of the golf course was

0:38:14.880 --> 0:38:20.799
<v Speaker 2>through social media through Instagram, through Twitter, and just it's

0:38:20.800 --> 0:38:22.520
<v Speaker 2>just it's just a it's just a new world. Man.

0:38:22.640 --> 0:38:27.040
<v Speaker 2>It's just unbelievable how things how things grow these days

0:38:27.080 --> 0:38:30.440
<v Speaker 2>that you know twenty thirty years ago, you don't you

0:38:30.440 --> 0:38:31.440
<v Speaker 2>don't know what would happen.

0:38:32.640 --> 0:38:35.480
<v Speaker 1>It's just That's how I found out about the course

0:38:35.640 --> 0:38:38.320
<v Speaker 1>was a buddy of mine had seen the Instagram page.

0:38:38.360 --> 0:38:42.080
<v Speaker 1>Who you know this guy had This guy worked at

0:38:42.120 --> 0:38:45.720
<v Speaker 1>for a golf management company and he ran their social media.

0:38:45.800 --> 0:38:47.520
<v Speaker 1>So he was like so in tune and he had

0:38:47.560 --> 0:38:50.080
<v Speaker 1>seen the pictures and it was you know, and then

0:38:50.120 --> 0:38:51.799
<v Speaker 1>I looked at him, I'm like, oh, man, I got

0:38:51.800 --> 0:38:54.279
<v Speaker 1>to get out of here. This place looks unbelievable.

0:38:56.280 --> 0:38:58.080
<v Speaker 2>The best for the phone calls that we used to

0:38:58.120 --> 0:39:01.680
<v Speaker 2>get because we we had, like, know, the pictures we

0:39:01.719 --> 0:39:03.439
<v Speaker 2>had on our website. Man, I get people who would

0:39:03.480 --> 0:39:06.440
<v Speaker 2>call and they literally like questioned me about the pictures

0:39:06.480 --> 0:39:08.359
<v Speaker 2>on the website and if they were real or not.

0:39:08.480 --> 0:39:10.720
<v Speaker 2>It was like, Oh, there's there's no way, y'all. Exis

0:39:10.760 --> 0:39:13.480
<v Speaker 2>you're in rural Tennessee and you've got Broomsedge and your

0:39:13.480 --> 0:39:16.440
<v Speaker 2>golf course looks like that like it actually does, and.

0:39:16.440 --> 0:39:18.040
<v Speaker 3>That that was like probably to me.

0:39:18.120 --> 0:39:20.720
<v Speaker 2>I was out there. So I was at Sweden's from

0:39:21.040 --> 0:39:25.160
<v Speaker 2>two thousand, middle of October twenty fourteen up until the

0:39:25.200 --> 0:39:30.040
<v Speaker 2>beginning of October this October, and we hired we hired

0:39:30.080 --> 0:39:34.000
<v Speaker 2>Nash out there. The thing that never got old Andy

0:39:34.120 --> 0:39:37.200
<v Speaker 2>was watching people on their first time out there. You

0:39:37.239 --> 0:39:41.440
<v Speaker 2>pull up to this parking area, there's a shed, and

0:39:41.600 --> 0:39:44.719
<v Speaker 2>right in front of you is this gem and just

0:39:44.800 --> 0:39:46.600
<v Speaker 2>the look people would get on their f it's just

0:39:46.640 --> 0:39:50.680
<v Speaker 2>like almost disbelief. And you know, you know, I don't

0:39:50.719 --> 0:39:52.680
<v Speaker 2>know if you've you've you've met John Al, You've met

0:39:52.719 --> 0:39:53.719
<v Speaker 2>midtown Chico.

0:39:53.560 --> 0:39:55.840
<v Speaker 1>Right, I don't think so.

0:39:55.840 --> 0:39:57.839
<v Speaker 2>So he's he's been a regular at the golf course

0:39:57.920 --> 0:40:02.360
<v Speaker 2>kind of since since it opened, and he for years

0:40:02.400 --> 0:40:06.680
<v Speaker 2>would just like he would just love bringing people out

0:40:06.680 --> 0:40:09.279
<v Speaker 2>there they've never seen it before. And just almost every

0:40:09.280 --> 0:40:10.919
<v Speaker 2>time i'd see his car pull up, I just keep

0:40:10.920 --> 0:40:12.440
<v Speaker 2>an eye on the guys getting out of the car

0:40:12.480 --> 0:40:14.880
<v Speaker 2>and they just like sit there, put their hands on

0:40:14.960 --> 0:40:17.440
<v Speaker 2>there on their sides and just kind of sit there

0:40:17.440 --> 0:40:21.480
<v Speaker 2>with their mouths open. But uh, you know, it's just

0:40:21.560 --> 0:40:24.520
<v Speaker 2>it's just unbelievable though, going back, you know, going back

0:40:24.560 --> 0:40:27.000
<v Speaker 2>to it just unbelievable to me watching that place really grow,

0:40:28.000 --> 0:40:30.840
<v Speaker 2>you know, from just a you know, just a seed

0:40:31.040 --> 0:40:34.239
<v Speaker 2>to kind of you know, where it is now and

0:40:34.320 --> 0:40:40.200
<v Speaker 2>the and the golf twitter Attie. It's it's you know,

0:40:41.760 --> 0:40:44.120
<v Speaker 2>maybe one of the more fulfilling things I guess in

0:40:44.200 --> 0:40:47.719
<v Speaker 2>my life is is is you know, really watching that

0:40:47.800 --> 0:40:50.400
<v Speaker 2>grow and being a part of it. And you know,

0:40:50.480 --> 0:40:56.200
<v Speaker 2>I look at it a lot now where I think,

0:40:56.440 --> 0:40:58.359
<v Speaker 2>you know, four years ago kind of where this where

0:40:58.480 --> 0:41:02.440
<v Speaker 2>all that's really started. I had a I had a

0:41:02.480 --> 0:41:04.960
<v Speaker 2>tremendous around of a belief in the golf course, and

0:41:04.960 --> 0:41:08.000
<v Speaker 2>I had a lot of belief in rob and it

0:41:08.000 --> 0:41:11.200
<v Speaker 2>it it just, I don't know, it made it an

0:41:11.239 --> 0:41:13.759
<v Speaker 2>interesting proposition to get involved with the golf course when

0:41:13.800 --> 0:41:16.799
<v Speaker 2>I did, and obviously it really wasn't my plan when

0:41:16.800 --> 0:41:19.239
<v Speaker 2>I moved back here from Michigan. It was, you know,

0:41:19.320 --> 0:41:22.640
<v Speaker 2>I I was doing some stuff for Scratch and this

0:41:22.840 --> 0:41:26.960
<v Speaker 2>just kind of happened. And you know, it's it's hard,

0:41:27.080 --> 0:41:29.359
<v Speaker 2>it's hard kind of moving away from that and just

0:41:29.360 --> 0:41:33.560
<v Speaker 2>being a part of it. But I have a soon

0:41:33.600 --> 0:41:35.880
<v Speaker 2>to be three year old at home, and you know,

0:41:35.920 --> 0:41:39.200
<v Speaker 2>the last four years of a lot of hours of.

0:41:39.120 --> 0:41:43.719
<v Speaker 5>Work, lots of time in that show, lots of.

0:41:43.640 --> 0:41:45.719
<v Speaker 2>Time in that shed, and it's just, you know, it

0:41:45.800 --> 0:41:48.760
<v Speaker 2>was just it was just time to time to spend

0:41:48.960 --> 0:41:50.520
<v Speaker 2>you know, time to spend some time at home. And

0:41:50.560 --> 0:41:52.560
<v Speaker 2>I'm still I'm still involved with the golf course. I

0:41:52.600 --> 0:41:54.839
<v Speaker 2>talked to Rob still like every day, and I mean,

0:41:54.880 --> 0:41:58.160
<v Speaker 2>I'm still involved. It's just I can't. I just can't

0:41:58.280 --> 0:42:01.160
<v Speaker 2>live in that shed anymore. I mean there were some

0:42:01.239 --> 0:42:05.080
<v Speaker 2>great times, man. I mean almost every day someone would

0:42:05.120 --> 0:42:07.360
<v Speaker 2>come up and ask me, Hey, man, like, how often

0:42:07.360 --> 0:42:09.279
<v Speaker 2>do you go out and play? I'm like, could you

0:42:09.280 --> 0:42:11.480
<v Speaker 2>sit up here all day and not go play?

0:42:11.719 --> 0:42:12.960
<v Speaker 1>Yeah? Seriously.

0:42:13.120 --> 0:42:14.879
<v Speaker 2>But the same time, the funny thing is that there's

0:42:14.920 --> 0:42:17.560
<v Speaker 2>guys in the golf industry that they do exactly that

0:42:17.600 --> 0:42:19.839
<v Speaker 2>they look at a golf course all day and when

0:42:19.880 --> 0:42:22.759
<v Speaker 2>they're off, they go home. I mean, it's.

0:42:23.480 --> 0:42:26.480
<v Speaker 1>It's just yeah, it's it's nuts. I walk a lot

0:42:26.520 --> 0:42:29.839
<v Speaker 1>of golf courses, you know, but every time I'm walking one,

0:42:29.880 --> 0:42:32.239
<v Speaker 1>I have the itch to play. But when I walk

0:42:32.280 --> 0:42:34.560
<v Speaker 1>them is like when I don't have the time to play,

0:42:34.840 --> 0:42:37.319
<v Speaker 1>you know, Like if I have to go see three

0:42:37.360 --> 0:42:39.040
<v Speaker 1>in a day, I'll walk them, you know.

0:42:40.120 --> 0:42:41.640
<v Speaker 5>But it's just you gotta get it.

0:42:41.719 --> 0:42:44.680
<v Speaker 2>Maybe get into that speed golf stuff. Man, start start

0:42:44.719 --> 0:42:47.160
<v Speaker 2>working on your running. Maybe that's maybe that's the solution

0:42:47.320 --> 0:42:47.600
<v Speaker 2>for you.

0:42:47.960 --> 0:42:50.000
<v Speaker 1>I need to do that, you know, I need to

0:42:50.040 --> 0:42:53.319
<v Speaker 1>start running more. They've been just living this blog life

0:42:53.680 --> 0:42:54.759
<v Speaker 1>you can't like And the thing.

0:42:55.280 --> 0:42:56.839
<v Speaker 2>The thing too, is you can't jump in a car.

0:42:56.880 --> 0:42:58.520
<v Speaker 2>I mean, you just I mean you're just not going

0:42:58.600 --> 0:43:00.839
<v Speaker 2>to really see You're not gonna see a golf court

0:43:00.920 --> 0:43:02.719
<v Speaker 2>jumping in a cart. Yeah, you don't, You just you

0:43:02.760 --> 0:43:04.920
<v Speaker 2>really don't. I mean, that's you got to feel it.

0:43:04.920 --> 0:43:05.680
<v Speaker 3>You got to walk it.

0:43:05.920 --> 0:43:07.680
<v Speaker 2>I mean that's you know, that's really where you learn

0:43:07.719 --> 0:43:10.879
<v Speaker 2>a place is just you know, on foot, you're you're

0:43:10.920 --> 0:43:15.200
<v Speaker 2>a base level seeing what's going on. You're not you know, yeah, yeah,

0:43:15.200 --> 0:43:17.360
<v Speaker 2>you're right. I like, you know, if I'm trying to

0:43:17.600 --> 0:43:20.920
<v Speaker 2>like binge, if I'm trying to play fifty four seventy

0:43:20.920 --> 0:43:23.680
<v Speaker 2>two ninety, you know, one hundred and eight in a day, whatever,

0:43:24.160 --> 0:43:26.960
<v Speaker 2>cart's cool, But like otherwise, man, i I'd much rather,

0:43:27.320 --> 0:43:30.279
<v Speaker 2>I'd much rather just walk because you just you've just

0:43:30.400 --> 0:43:32.400
<v Speaker 2>learned so much more about the golf course walking.

0:43:32.640 --> 0:43:36.759
<v Speaker 1>That's how you look around and you just you you're

0:43:36.800 --> 0:43:39.440
<v Speaker 1>thirty yards off of tee and you might see something

0:43:39.480 --> 0:43:43.640
<v Speaker 1>on another hole that you're just like, oh.

0:43:43.960 --> 0:43:46.239
<v Speaker 2>When would you ever have that? When would you ever

0:43:46.320 --> 0:43:49.719
<v Speaker 2>have that glimpse of the cart? That wouldn't you never?

0:43:51.000 --> 0:43:54.080
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, you can't eat you can't you play better?

0:43:54.239 --> 0:43:55.399
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, you play better too.

0:43:55.520 --> 0:43:57.600
<v Speaker 2>I just to immediate least, like you just you know,

0:43:57.640 --> 0:43:59.960
<v Speaker 2>you're walking in between shots, you're thinking about what's now,

0:44:00.200 --> 0:44:00.719
<v Speaker 2>You're just I.

0:44:00.719 --> 0:44:03.279
<v Speaker 5>Don't know, you're in a rhythm to me, just you

0:44:03.320 --> 0:44:03.880
<v Speaker 5>are you getting?

0:44:04.040 --> 0:44:05.880
<v Speaker 2>You get in a much better flow when you're walking.

0:44:06.000 --> 0:44:10.200
<v Speaker 1>I also, I believe that four walkers is faster than

0:44:10.320 --> 0:44:14.600
<v Speaker 1>four and two cars. That is a belief that I

0:44:14.640 --> 0:44:16.000
<v Speaker 1>will go to the grave with.

0:44:17.080 --> 0:44:19.040
<v Speaker 2>I don't you know, from running a golf course for

0:44:19.040 --> 0:44:22.480
<v Speaker 2>four years, I wouldn't argue with you. I mean, especially

0:44:22.480 --> 0:44:25.480
<v Speaker 2>if we're talking about if we're talking about better players

0:44:25.480 --> 0:44:28.400
<v Speaker 2>and guys that are playing ready golf, and absolutely yeah,

0:44:28.480 --> 0:44:30.280
<v Speaker 2>I mean obviously you get you know, you get those

0:44:30.520 --> 0:44:32.520
<v Speaker 2>that foursome walking once in a while that you know,

0:44:32.600 --> 0:44:35.200
<v Speaker 2>like they walk in a group together up the fairway.

0:44:35.320 --> 0:44:38.279
<v Speaker 2>You know, it's just kind of like you know, to me,

0:44:38.360 --> 0:44:40.279
<v Speaker 2>it's like a good force and is like okay, you

0:44:40.360 --> 0:44:43.319
<v Speaker 2>hit your T ball you scattered, You meet up on

0:44:43.400 --> 0:44:45.920
<v Speaker 2>the green and you for a second before you go

0:44:45.960 --> 0:44:46.759
<v Speaker 2>hit your next team.

0:44:46.800 --> 0:44:47.480
<v Speaker 1>All that's it.

0:44:47.560 --> 0:44:48.000
<v Speaker 2>I played.

0:44:48.160 --> 0:44:50.920
<v Speaker 1>I played. I played a fivesome on a Monday this

0:44:51.040 --> 0:44:53.400
<v Speaker 1>year with a bunch of guys that get it. We

0:44:53.600 --> 0:44:56.680
<v Speaker 1>walked and we played in two and a half hours.

0:44:58.120 --> 0:45:00.239
<v Speaker 2>You can do it, Baron, Yeah, it's it's you can

0:45:00.360 --> 0:45:00.840
<v Speaker 2>do it.

0:45:00.840 --> 0:45:02.840
<v Speaker 1>It's people were just hitting it at will.

0:45:03.080 --> 0:45:07.120
<v Speaker 4>But you know, the crazy that the the other thing,

0:45:07.200 --> 0:45:09.560
<v Speaker 4>the craziest thing that I've seen, the craziest thing that

0:45:09.560 --> 0:45:13.839
<v Speaker 4>I've seen, like in golf this year was so so.

0:45:13.960 --> 0:45:16.040
<v Speaker 2>Tyson Lamb came out like and it came out to

0:45:16.080 --> 0:45:19.640
<v Speaker 2>Swedens in August and he brought He brought like seventeen dudes.

0:45:19.640 --> 0:45:22.360
<v Speaker 2>They were like eighteen of them all together. These guys

0:45:22.719 --> 0:45:23.919
<v Speaker 2>banded together.

0:45:24.280 --> 0:45:26.280
<v Speaker 3>Eighteen of them and they went out and they played

0:45:26.320 --> 0:45:27.080
<v Speaker 3>all kinds.

0:45:26.880 --> 0:45:29.560
<v Speaker 2>Of these games and dude, they were getting around in

0:45:29.600 --> 0:45:32.040
<v Speaker 2>an hour and a half pretty consistently. I went out

0:45:32.080 --> 0:45:34.319
<v Speaker 2>like one to nine with them, and I kid you not,

0:45:34.440 --> 0:45:37.239
<v Speaker 2>there was a threesome and there was a threesome that

0:45:37.280 --> 0:45:37.960
<v Speaker 2>slowed us up.

0:45:39.000 --> 0:45:40.880
<v Speaker 3>I mean it was, it was the craziest.

0:45:40.960 --> 0:45:43.640
<v Speaker 2>It was the craziest thing I've ever seen. It was

0:45:43.680 --> 0:45:46.000
<v Speaker 2>so much fun because they would go out and they'd

0:45:46.000 --> 0:45:48.160
<v Speaker 2>play like, you know, they'd play two man scrambled, they

0:45:48.200 --> 0:45:50.960
<v Speaker 2>played cards scrambled. It was just did it was. It

0:45:51.040 --> 0:45:54.160
<v Speaker 2>was crazy. But that's like the furthest that's the furthest

0:45:54.160 --> 0:45:56.040
<v Speaker 2>thing from what we're talking about.

0:45:56.760 --> 0:45:59.719
<v Speaker 3>But yeah, something the craziest that this.

0:45:59.719 --> 0:46:03.719
<v Speaker 1>Year, something that I think is crazy about Sweetens is that,

0:46:04.280 --> 0:46:06.760
<v Speaker 1>like the it seems like the majority of the business

0:46:06.760 --> 0:46:09.840
<v Speaker 1>at Sweetens is from out of towners. And it's like,

0:46:09.920 --> 0:46:13.719
<v Speaker 1>how is it a destination now? A destination nine hole

0:46:13.800 --> 0:46:15.400
<v Speaker 1>golf course? How does that work?

0:46:16.880 --> 0:46:19.040
<v Speaker 2>I think it does. You know, it's just like the

0:46:19.120 --> 0:46:22.800
<v Speaker 2>fascinating thing is so you know, we're the golf course

0:46:22.960 --> 0:46:26.560
<v Speaker 2>is about depending on where you are on Chattanooga, it's

0:46:26.560 --> 0:46:29.120
<v Speaker 2>anywhere from about a half hour to about forty five

0:46:29.160 --> 0:46:31.719
<v Speaker 2>minute drive out there. We're about an hour and a

0:46:31.760 --> 0:46:35.600
<v Speaker 2>half from Nashville, and at least half of the traffic

0:46:35.680 --> 0:46:38.640
<v Speaker 2>that goes out to Sweden's Code is from Nashville and

0:46:38.760 --> 0:46:41.520
<v Speaker 2>surrounding areas. There's more people from there that come out

0:46:41.520 --> 0:46:44.719
<v Speaker 2>there than Chattanooga. I don't know, man, it's it's a

0:46:44.800 --> 0:46:46.840
<v Speaker 2>really I've lived all over the country and it's just

0:46:46.880 --> 0:46:50.160
<v Speaker 2>it's just kind of a different place for golf and

0:46:50.320 --> 0:46:52.759
<v Speaker 2>just it's just a different it's just a it's just

0:46:52.760 --> 0:46:54.080
<v Speaker 2>just a different deal. And the thing that.

0:46:55.840 --> 0:46:58.400
<v Speaker 3>So so, like I say, probably about half half of.

0:46:58.440 --> 0:47:02.360
<v Speaker 2>More come from nash Will, maybe twenty percent come from Chattanooga,

0:47:02.440 --> 0:47:06.319
<v Speaker 2>and like immediately local, not a lot of not a

0:47:06.320 --> 0:47:08.720
<v Speaker 2>lot of immediately local. And the rest are coming from Atlanta,

0:47:08.760 --> 0:47:11.880
<v Speaker 2>they're coming from Knoxville, and they're coming from out of state,

0:47:12.160 --> 0:47:14.960
<v Speaker 2>some of them from way out of state. The thing

0:47:15.000 --> 0:47:20.080
<v Speaker 2>that like last winter, like the phone rang a lot,

0:47:20.200 --> 0:47:24.960
<v Speaker 2>and it was guys up in Illinois, Ohio, Michigan, Wisconsin

0:47:25.719 --> 0:47:29.200
<v Speaker 2>looking for a break from the snow. And there were

0:47:29.719 --> 0:47:32.600
<v Speaker 2>a lot of guys that drove that would literally drive down,

0:47:33.440 --> 0:47:37.279
<v Speaker 2>spend a spend a day just killing themselves playing and

0:47:37.760 --> 0:47:39.759
<v Speaker 2>would go back to work or whatever they had to

0:47:39.800 --> 0:47:40.480
<v Speaker 2>go back to work for.

0:47:41.120 --> 0:47:43.399
<v Speaker 3>Butch is crazy for for you know, for a nine

0:47:43.520 --> 0:47:45.040
<v Speaker 3>for a nine o golf corn.

0:47:45.920 --> 0:47:47.879
<v Speaker 1>That's is crazy, that.

0:47:47.880 --> 0:47:48.399
<v Speaker 3>Place, dude.

0:47:48.400 --> 0:47:51.200
<v Speaker 2>Honestly, it's I feel dirty just calling it a nine

0:47:51.239 --> 0:47:54.280
<v Speaker 2>hole golf course because I think that place really transcends

0:47:54.960 --> 0:47:57.640
<v Speaker 2>how you think of a number of holes, because I mean,

0:47:58.400 --> 0:48:00.440
<v Speaker 2>like the nuts and bolts of it. We actually down

0:48:00.480 --> 0:48:02.520
<v Speaker 2>one day and we wrote, we wrote everything out, and

0:48:02.560 --> 0:48:05.719
<v Speaker 2>there's like there's like seventy eight holes out there that

0:48:05.800 --> 0:48:06.280
<v Speaker 2>we play.

0:48:07.560 --> 0:48:13.680
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, but it so like why I was sitting at

0:48:13.680 --> 0:48:16.399
<v Speaker 1>the ring or talking with a buddy of mine from

0:48:16.480 --> 0:48:21.200
<v Speaker 1>New York, and I was like, and I live in Chicago,

0:48:21.560 --> 0:48:23.640
<v Speaker 1>and I was thinking to myself, like, if this place

0:48:23.760 --> 0:48:26.960
<v Speaker 1>was within an hour of Chicago, it'd be impossible to

0:48:27.320 --> 0:48:27.799
<v Speaker 1>tea time.

0:48:28.840 --> 0:48:32.560
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, and we would. We'd like, we could charge one

0:48:32.600 --> 0:48:35.239
<v Speaker 2>hundred dollars for it all day and guys would you know,

0:48:36.040 --> 0:48:37.560
<v Speaker 2>guys would be happy.

0:48:37.280 --> 0:48:41.760
<v Speaker 1>To pay it. Why why happen in Chattanoos Because.

0:48:41.560 --> 0:48:44.279
<v Speaker 2>It's like, that's because that's how the golf market here is.

0:48:44.640 --> 0:48:47.040
<v Speaker 2>The golf market here is more value driven than it

0:48:47.080 --> 0:48:48.000
<v Speaker 2>is quality driven.

0:48:49.120 --> 0:48:51.200
<v Speaker 1>But it's not even expensive.

0:48:52.320 --> 0:48:55.520
<v Speaker 2>For this area. That's pretty much just about the peak

0:48:55.560 --> 0:48:57.520
<v Speaker 2>of what people pay for golf in this area, for

0:48:57.520 --> 0:49:00.560
<v Speaker 2>public golf, believe it or not, that's a out that's

0:49:00.600 --> 0:49:03.480
<v Speaker 2>about what people pay at the very high end for

0:49:03.520 --> 0:49:07.040
<v Speaker 2>public golf in this area. And you've got you know,

0:49:08.360 --> 0:49:11.160
<v Speaker 2>really I mean outside of us, and you know, Sawani

0:49:11.239 --> 0:49:14.040
<v Speaker 2>is a pretty decent little track. But uh, you know,

0:49:14.080 --> 0:49:20.560
<v Speaker 2>there's really nothing even remarkable or notable around Chattanooga, and

0:49:20.920 --> 0:49:25.200
<v Speaker 2>you know, it's we still andy, you know, here we are, here,

0:49:25.239 --> 0:49:27.359
<v Speaker 2>we are four years later. I mean, once in a while,

0:49:27.400 --> 0:49:29.719
<v Speaker 2>you still get somebody that you know rolls up and

0:49:30.040 --> 0:49:32.200
<v Speaker 2>you know, ask how much it is, and they leave

0:49:32.239 --> 0:49:33.719
<v Speaker 2>because they think it's too many. I think they think

0:49:33.760 --> 0:49:36.319
<v Speaker 2>it's too much money. And we've kept the we've kept

0:49:36.360 --> 0:49:38.560
<v Speaker 2>the walking or the walking rates have always been cheap

0:49:38.560 --> 0:49:41.680
<v Speaker 2>out there because I mean it's we've kept the walking

0:49:41.760 --> 0:49:44.520
<v Speaker 2>rates cheap out there. But in this area really, up

0:49:44.640 --> 0:49:46.480
<v Speaker 2>until the last year or so, I really didn't get

0:49:46.520 --> 0:49:48.560
<v Speaker 2>a lot of walkers. Like maybe I get like a

0:49:48.640 --> 0:49:52.640
<v Speaker 2>dozen twenty walkers at the very most, like in a

0:49:52.680 --> 0:49:56.759
<v Speaker 2>week a couple of years ago. But I mean for

0:49:56.840 --> 0:49:59.080
<v Speaker 2>this area though, that's that's about as much as people

0:49:59.120 --> 0:50:02.279
<v Speaker 2>are willing to pay for golf. And you know, the

0:50:02.320 --> 0:50:05.359
<v Speaker 2>mentality is just different, you know. I mean, you get

0:50:05.360 --> 0:50:07.239
<v Speaker 2>you get the guy that rolls up that sees the

0:50:07.239 --> 0:50:09.440
<v Speaker 2>golf course has never seen anything like it, goes out,

0:50:09.520 --> 0:50:11.360
<v Speaker 2>falls in love with it, and to him it's, you know,

0:50:11.400 --> 0:50:14.000
<v Speaker 2>the greatest deal around. Conversely, you get that guy that

0:50:14.080 --> 0:50:16.960
<v Speaker 2>goes out there and never see anything like it, plays,

0:50:16.960 --> 0:50:19.960
<v Speaker 2>it doesn't like it. I mean it's I don't know.

0:50:20.800 --> 0:50:23.480
<v Speaker 2>Swedens does a very good job of kind of calling

0:50:23.480 --> 0:50:25.839
<v Speaker 2>out and finding its clientele, because the people that fall

0:50:25.880 --> 0:50:29.239
<v Speaker 2>in love with that place, they it's like their hotel California, man.

0:50:29.360 --> 0:50:31.359
<v Speaker 2>I mean they they're there like every weekend or every

0:50:31.480 --> 0:50:32.520
<v Speaker 2>chance they get to be there.

0:50:34.120 --> 0:50:37.960
<v Speaker 1>What uh, what would you say in terms of like

0:50:38.080 --> 0:50:42.840
<v Speaker 1>why why is it with golfers? It seems like the

0:50:43.400 --> 0:50:47.040
<v Speaker 1>natural tendency when when they don't when they haven't seen

0:50:47.360 --> 0:50:50.560
<v Speaker 1>any golf course like it, why is always the reaction negative?

0:50:52.320 --> 0:50:52.719
<v Speaker 3>I don't know.

0:50:52.760 --> 0:50:56.239
<v Speaker 2>It's like that Mackenzie quote right about. You know, I

0:50:56.239 --> 0:50:57.960
<v Speaker 2>don't know, because you know a lot of people grow

0:50:58.080 --> 0:51:03.200
<v Speaker 2>up playing bland, uninteresting golf into them That's that's golf.

0:51:03.360 --> 0:51:06.160
<v Speaker 2>We were talking earlier about how personal your views are

0:51:06.200 --> 0:51:08.000
<v Speaker 2>to golf, and I think it goes kind of into that.

0:51:08.040 --> 0:51:10.480
<v Speaker 2>I mean, if you grew up, if you grew up

0:51:10.480 --> 0:51:14.080
<v Speaker 2>playing a you know, a nondescript golf course, it was

0:51:14.280 --> 0:51:17.600
<v Speaker 2>tree lines, didn't you know, had greens that didn't really

0:51:17.640 --> 0:51:20.319
<v Speaker 2>have a lot going on, not really any bunkering, And

0:51:21.000 --> 0:51:23.440
<v Speaker 2>that's what you knew was golf and someone took you

0:51:23.440 --> 0:51:26.760
<v Speaker 2>out to Sweden's Cove or you know. The other comparison

0:51:26.800 --> 0:51:28.760
<v Speaker 2>I always draw with that place is like Prairie Dunes

0:51:28.760 --> 0:51:31.640
<v Speaker 2>in Kansas, because like you have like this this wild,

0:51:32.000 --> 0:51:34.600
<v Speaker 2>this wild golf course. It's just like this kind of

0:51:34.600 --> 0:51:37.280
<v Speaker 2>a regional club. It's just like or a low excuse

0:51:37.320 --> 0:51:39.800
<v Speaker 2>not even a regional club, just like at the local

0:51:39.840 --> 0:51:43.040
<v Speaker 2>country club. It's like, what do people think in Hutchinson, Kansas?

0:51:43.040 --> 0:51:45.280
<v Speaker 2>It go play other golf courses and then go play

0:51:45.280 --> 0:51:49.160
<v Speaker 2>that place I removed from, Like it's just so far

0:51:49.200 --> 0:51:52.560
<v Speaker 2>removed from like what you know is golf being Yeah,

0:51:52.719 --> 0:51:53.000
<v Speaker 2>like what.

0:51:53.000 --> 0:51:56.000
<v Speaker 1>About that guy that's remember at Prairie Dunes from Hutchinson,

0:51:56.480 --> 0:51:59.920
<v Speaker 1>that like he doesn't even know how good he has it?

0:52:00.440 --> 0:52:05.200
<v Speaker 2>You know, you know that's like it's going to place

0:52:05.239 --> 0:52:07.200
<v Speaker 2>somewhere else and he's like what the hell is this?

0:52:07.520 --> 0:52:13.319
<v Speaker 2>Like it's it's it's a pretty simil It's a it's

0:52:13.320 --> 0:52:16.160
<v Speaker 2>an interesting parallel, right. I Mean, you have like, you know,

0:52:17.640 --> 0:52:20.920
<v Speaker 2>just so so outside of the norm for you know,

0:52:21.400 --> 0:52:23.799
<v Speaker 2>so so out outside the norm of what of the

0:52:23.840 --> 0:52:26.359
<v Speaker 2>other gulf in the area is like you know, it's

0:52:26.440 --> 0:52:31.200
<v Speaker 2>just it's just some people, just some people celebrate that difference.

0:52:31.239 --> 0:52:34.640
<v Speaker 2>Some people don't understand that difference. And I mean, you know,

0:52:34.719 --> 0:52:37.840
<v Speaker 2>it's it's such as life, man. I mean, you know,

0:52:38.440 --> 0:52:41.359
<v Speaker 2>people aren't gonna like everything, and you're gonna you're gonna

0:52:41.400 --> 0:52:43.960
<v Speaker 2>lose your ass and go crazy trying to make everybody happy.

0:52:44.040 --> 0:52:47.040
<v Speaker 2>So it seems like you do your thing.

0:52:47.400 --> 0:52:51.719
<v Speaker 1>It's kind of like the inverse paradigm of of what

0:52:52.200 --> 0:52:56.279
<v Speaker 1>happens in La, where the very best courses like Riviera

0:52:57.440 --> 0:52:59.680
<v Speaker 1>L A c. C. Bel Air, they you know, the

0:53:00.239 --> 0:53:05.480
<v Speaker 1>now Restore bel Air, like embrace the natural look of

0:53:05.640 --> 0:53:09.400
<v Speaker 1>the area with the washes and the baranca and the canyons,

0:53:09.440 --> 0:53:12.040
<v Speaker 1>and and then like all the other courses in La

0:53:12.120 --> 0:53:14.719
<v Speaker 1>seem to try and like hide it. It's like they're

0:53:14.719 --> 0:53:18.440
<v Speaker 1>try and be like these utopias that aren't in southern California.

0:53:18.480 --> 0:53:21.240
<v Speaker 1>It's like, what, like, why wouldn't you look at these

0:53:21.280 --> 0:53:24.080
<v Speaker 1>courses and take what they do well and bring it

0:53:24.120 --> 0:53:25.200
<v Speaker 1>to your course.

0:53:25.600 --> 0:53:29.640
<v Speaker 2>Or even think about it because they probably don't.

0:53:31.560 --> 0:53:35.440
<v Speaker 1>What So when when'd you get like the architecture bug?

0:53:37.640 --> 0:53:40.919
<v Speaker 2>You know, I would say, I mean kind of really

0:53:40.960 --> 0:53:44.839
<v Speaker 2>I started to get interested in architecture, was like it's

0:53:44.920 --> 0:53:47.280
<v Speaker 2>kind of like in my late twenties, I would say,

0:53:47.719 --> 0:53:50.480
<v Speaker 2>I mean, I mean, I you know, I was, I

0:53:50.520 --> 0:53:52.120
<v Speaker 2>was kind of lucky growing up. I was, you know,

0:53:52.280 --> 0:53:55.239
<v Speaker 2>the club Brad growing up. And you know, I grew

0:53:55.320 --> 0:53:57.959
<v Speaker 2>up in northern California and there was a pretty decent

0:53:58.000 --> 0:54:00.160
<v Speaker 2>amount of good golf around where I grew up up,

0:54:00.200 --> 0:54:04.160
<v Speaker 2>and I think like probably like my first exposure to

0:54:04.200 --> 0:54:06.120
<v Speaker 2>something that just kind of blew my socks off was

0:54:06.160 --> 0:54:09.440
<v Speaker 2>like playing Posa Tiempo when I was like thirteen or fourteen,

0:54:09.440 --> 0:54:11.359
<v Speaker 2>and it was just, you know, like we were talking

0:54:11.360 --> 0:54:13.160
<v Speaker 2>about before, it was so different from the other golf

0:54:13.160 --> 0:54:15.080
<v Speaker 2>courses that I played, like growing up, I grew up

0:54:15.080 --> 0:54:18.520
<v Speaker 2>playing you know, kind of a tree lined, smaller green

0:54:18.600 --> 0:54:21.160
<v Speaker 2>well buger golf course and then going out and seeing

0:54:21.160 --> 0:54:23.399
<v Speaker 2>this place with you know, it's all kinds of wild

0:54:23.440 --> 0:54:25.279
<v Speaker 2>to golf. It was really actually kind of different than

0:54:25.320 --> 0:54:27.440
<v Speaker 2>it was than it is now. They've really done a

0:54:27.440 --> 0:54:29.880
<v Speaker 2>lot of work out there, but I mean still it

0:54:29.960 --> 0:54:32.840
<v Speaker 2>was just these wild greens and just all kinds of

0:54:32.840 --> 0:54:35.600
<v Speaker 2>crazy movement. And you know, I mean, I I was,

0:54:35.800 --> 0:54:38.560
<v Speaker 2>you know, I guess interested in it, but there just

0:54:38.760 --> 0:54:41.399
<v Speaker 2>wasn't a lot of resources about it then, and then

0:54:41.600 --> 0:54:43.400
<v Speaker 2>you know, kind of as I got in my late twenties,

0:54:44.840 --> 0:54:46.920
<v Speaker 2>I kind of started to get more interested in it.

0:54:47.560 --> 0:54:50.319
<v Speaker 2>I mean, I think to an extent too. It you

0:54:50.360 --> 0:54:53.279
<v Speaker 2>don't necessarily, I don't know, get interested in it or

0:54:53.320 --> 0:54:56.719
<v Speaker 2>you're not really steeped in it until you've played you've

0:54:56.719 --> 0:54:58.959
<v Speaker 2>played a lot of golf courses. I mean, you can't

0:54:59.000 --> 0:55:01.040
<v Speaker 2>really don't. I don't. It'd be difficult to be into

0:55:01.120 --> 0:55:04.080
<v Speaker 2>architecture if you play ten golf courses, but you play

0:55:04.080 --> 0:55:06.320
<v Speaker 2>a couple hundred of them, and all of a sudden

0:55:06.400 --> 0:55:09.279
<v Speaker 2>you kind of start seeing and noticing all these differences

0:55:09.280 --> 0:55:12.040
<v Speaker 2>and understanding why things are the way they are and

0:55:12.080 --> 0:55:16.840
<v Speaker 2>why you like certain things and dislike other things. But

0:55:17.040 --> 0:55:20.319
<v Speaker 2>I joined I joined golf club at liss And I

0:55:20.360 --> 0:55:24.040
<v Speaker 2>think two thousand and seven, two thousand and eight, and

0:55:24.120 --> 0:55:27.200
<v Speaker 2>that was really kind of you know, that was kind

0:55:27.200 --> 0:55:30.160
<v Speaker 2>of the the primmer that really kind of got me

0:55:30.239 --> 0:55:31.000
<v Speaker 2>interested in it.

0:55:32.880 --> 0:55:35.719
<v Speaker 5>Fall Nerd them, Yeah, because I mean it was.

0:55:35.719 --> 0:55:37.960
<v Speaker 2>Just such a great race. It's still a great resource.

0:55:38.000 --> 0:55:41.880
<v Speaker 2>I mean, you've got all kinds of pictures, great opinions.

0:55:42.040 --> 0:55:43.680
<v Speaker 2>You know, it's just you know, there's just so much

0:55:43.680 --> 0:55:45.879
<v Speaker 2>information on there and it was just, you know, kind

0:55:45.880 --> 0:55:53.239
<v Speaker 2>of an interesting thing. And then you know, and honestly too,

0:55:53.280 --> 0:55:55.840
<v Speaker 2>you know, kind of the first kind of the first

0:55:55.840 --> 0:55:59.800
<v Speaker 2>trip I took to band and kind of started a

0:56:00.000 --> 0:56:02.080
<v Speaker 2>little bit of that interest as well. In two thousand

0:56:02.120 --> 0:56:04.279
<v Speaker 2>and and six, I was out, I was still living

0:56:04.320 --> 0:56:10.120
<v Speaker 2>in California and in Ari Ari was out working on

0:56:10.160 --> 0:56:13.480
<v Speaker 2>something with me, and we went out. We played pebble.

0:56:13.520 --> 0:56:14.440
<v Speaker 3>We played pebble on my.

0:56:14.400 --> 0:56:18.520
<v Speaker 2>Birthday, and I remember being, I hope this doesn't have

0:56:18.560 --> 0:56:20.960
<v Speaker 2>said anybody. I remember being so I was just I

0:56:21.040 --> 0:56:25.479
<v Speaker 2>was underwhelmed. Like we played pebble, was like a six

0:56:25.520 --> 0:56:28.239
<v Speaker 2>hour round. We were shepherded, like just just shepherd it

0:56:28.280 --> 0:56:30.359
<v Speaker 2>around the golf. Of course, wasn't in great shape. I mean,

0:56:30.400 --> 0:56:33.480
<v Speaker 2>obviously there's some fantastic goals out there. We got done

0:56:33.520 --> 0:56:35.560
<v Speaker 2>with a round and I looked at him, like, man, like,

0:56:35.640 --> 0:56:38.560
<v Speaker 2>is it me or is this pretty overrated? He just

0:56:38.640 --> 0:56:40.400
<v Speaker 2>kind of laughed and he said he's like He's like,

0:56:40.440 --> 0:56:41.959
<v Speaker 2>I'll tell you what, man. He's like, in a couple

0:56:41.920 --> 0:56:44.600
<v Speaker 2>of weeks, like take about a week off, take a

0:56:44.640 --> 0:56:46.960
<v Speaker 2>week off from work, and meet me up in Oregon.

0:56:47.000 --> 0:56:51.439
<v Speaker 2>We'll go play We'll go play bandon and I got

0:56:51.520 --> 0:56:54.319
<v Speaker 2>up there. I got up there about two weeks later,

0:56:54.320 --> 0:56:56.239
<v Speaker 2>and I had a week off and I get up there.

0:56:56.239 --> 0:56:58.759
<v Speaker 2>I drive up from from uh I was living in

0:56:58.800 --> 0:57:01.400
<v Speaker 2>Menlo Park. Grow from Menlo Park up to Eugene. I

0:57:01.440 --> 0:57:04.279
<v Speaker 2>get to Ari's house and he's sitting there in his

0:57:04.320 --> 0:57:06.560
<v Speaker 2>living room and he's got like, I don't know, probably

0:57:06.600 --> 0:57:09.440
<v Speaker 2>one hundred Hickory golf clubs on the floor around him, Like,

0:57:09.440 --> 0:57:11.680
<v Speaker 2>what are you doing. You're putting my bag together to

0:57:11.719 --> 0:57:14.839
<v Speaker 2>go go play, go play out of band I'm like, Oh, cool,

0:57:14.880 --> 0:57:16.520
<v Speaker 2>do you have a bag I can play with? So

0:57:16.560 --> 0:57:18.960
<v Speaker 2>my first trip to Bandon was one hundred holes with Hickory,

0:57:19.240 --> 0:57:22.000
<v Speaker 2>Oh my god. And I think that gave me a

0:57:22.080 --> 0:57:24.960
<v Speaker 2>much deeper appreciation for that place than I probably would

0:57:25.000 --> 0:57:27.400
<v Speaker 2>have if I'd gone out there played it with modern equipment.

0:57:28.200 --> 0:57:31.320
<v Speaker 2>And I just really just changed the way I looked

0:57:31.360 --> 0:57:33.520
<v Speaker 2>at golf and how a golf course could really play.

0:57:34.440 --> 0:57:37.560
<v Speaker 2>I hadn't really seen anything firm and fast fescue like that.

0:57:37.680 --> 0:57:40.280
<v Speaker 2>I hadn't, you know, just how wild and natural it was,

0:57:40.320 --> 0:57:42.360
<v Speaker 2>and the shots you could play on the ground. I

0:57:42.440 --> 0:57:44.520
<v Speaker 2>just hadn't really seen anything like that before, and that

0:57:45.040 --> 0:57:47.840
<v Speaker 2>really it was like a quantum leap to me and

0:57:47.920 --> 0:57:51.360
<v Speaker 2>my my appreciation and understanding of golf was my first

0:57:51.360 --> 0:57:52.200
<v Speaker 2>trip out to Bandon.

0:57:52.840 --> 0:57:55.720
<v Speaker 1>It's and is coupled with the Pebble.

0:57:56.560 --> 0:57:56.760
<v Speaker 5>You know.

0:57:57.480 --> 0:58:00.600
<v Speaker 1>I had like the similar thing with Pebble this year

0:58:00.640 --> 0:58:03.920
<v Speaker 1>at Whistling Straits where you know, it took us like

0:58:04.000 --> 0:58:07.000
<v Speaker 1>six hours to play and I was just it just

0:58:07.040 --> 0:58:09.120
<v Speaker 1>turned me so much. Yeah, there's so.

0:58:09.160 --> 0:58:12.280
<v Speaker 3>Many it's like you get it's I mean, dude, it's

0:58:12.320 --> 0:58:15.200
<v Speaker 3>just the marshals are like they're just there to just

0:58:15.320 --> 0:58:18.440
<v Speaker 3>keep you moving pretty much, and like it's just I

0:58:18.480 --> 0:58:20.800
<v Speaker 3>don't know, that's just not golf to me, man, that's not.

0:58:22.240 --> 0:58:24.200
<v Speaker 2>I don't know what you find enjoyable about that.

0:58:24.640 --> 0:58:27.880
<v Speaker 1>It's it's funny because I asked the caddies like, hey,

0:58:27.960 --> 0:58:30.840
<v Speaker 1>is this normal, and they're like, you know, the fastest

0:58:30.920 --> 0:58:33.600
<v Speaker 1>round we ever get out here is like five hours,

0:58:33.640 --> 0:58:38.600
<v Speaker 1>five and a half. And to me, that's it's business.

0:58:38.600 --> 0:58:41.520
<v Speaker 2>It's bad business, Annie because they're losing or they're missing

0:58:41.520 --> 0:58:42.840
<v Speaker 2>out on those replay rates.

0:58:43.000 --> 0:58:45.360
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, well that's that's the thing.

0:58:45.440 --> 0:58:45.720
<v Speaker 5>Is like.

0:58:47.160 --> 0:58:49.680
<v Speaker 2>Even a four hour around four hour around of golf

0:58:49.680 --> 0:58:50.840
<v Speaker 2>to me feels like forever.

0:58:51.320 --> 0:58:54.960
<v Speaker 3>Well just it just it just it feels it feels really.

0:58:54.720 --> 0:58:57.919
<v Speaker 1>Long, but that's the reality of so many golfers, Like, yeah,

0:58:58.000 --> 0:59:01.280
<v Speaker 1>I caddied my whole life growing up, and like the

0:59:01.680 --> 0:59:05.080
<v Speaker 1>four hours is fast for a foursome amount of weekend.

0:59:05.400 --> 0:59:08.480
<v Speaker 1>Like and it's it's crazy to say that because we're

0:59:08.560 --> 0:59:11.040
<v Speaker 1>two on the end of the spectrum, but that's the reality.

0:59:11.040 --> 0:59:14.400
<v Speaker 1>Like four hours is pretty fast for some people. The

0:59:14.800 --> 0:59:17.320
<v Speaker 1>thing that I found crazy, it's just like, you know,

0:59:17.600 --> 0:59:22.400
<v Speaker 1>I could play Lossnia for like a fourth of the

0:59:22.480 --> 0:59:25.120
<v Speaker 1>money and play twice as fast, and I think it's

0:59:25.120 --> 0:59:26.200
<v Speaker 1>a better golf course.

0:59:26.480 --> 0:59:27.280
<v Speaker 5>So like what am I.

0:59:27.320 --> 0:59:30.800
<v Speaker 2>One hundred percent? Man? I would I concur with you

0:59:31.120 --> 0:59:36.000
<v Speaker 2>in completely, in total and entirely, Like it's I mean.

0:59:35.880 --> 0:59:38.320
<v Speaker 3>It's I don't know, man, It's just it's such a

0:59:38.360 --> 0:59:38.880
<v Speaker 3>different time.

0:59:38.920 --> 0:59:41.560
<v Speaker 2>You know. The other thing too, is like it's just

0:59:41.960 --> 0:59:43.920
<v Speaker 2>I think the proposition for a lot of people is

0:59:44.000 --> 0:59:45.680
<v Speaker 2>changing as far as like when you go out and

0:59:45.720 --> 0:59:48.040
<v Speaker 2>you play a golf course. I think a lot of

0:59:48.040 --> 0:59:51.920
<v Speaker 2>people are starting to start to embrace like having fun,

0:59:53.240 --> 0:59:55.680
<v Speaker 2>Like you know, who cares if it's seventy five hundred

0:59:55.720 --> 0:59:57.640
<v Speaker 2>yards and it kicks your ass, Like don't you want

0:59:57.640 --> 1:00:00.280
<v Speaker 2>to just go have fun? Isn't that what you already

1:00:00.280 --> 1:00:03.280
<v Speaker 2>playing got you into playing golf. You certainly didn't keep

1:00:03.280 --> 1:00:04.840
<v Speaker 2>playing golf because it wasn't fun.

1:00:06.000 --> 1:00:07.280
<v Speaker 1>But I don't know.

1:00:07.360 --> 1:00:09.080
<v Speaker 2>There's a lot of things need a lot of things

1:00:09.080 --> 1:00:09.760
<v Speaker 2>need to change.

1:00:09.800 --> 1:00:16.680
<v Speaker 1>But so you think Sweetens is certainly in the fun category.

1:00:16.800 --> 1:00:20.280
<v Speaker 1>Abandon is a fun It's.

1:00:20.120 --> 1:00:22.480
<v Speaker 2>Like being out there for four years completely changed my

1:00:22.560 --> 1:00:25.560
<v Speaker 2>perception of golf, like how I value, like just how

1:00:25.600 --> 1:00:27.040
<v Speaker 2>I appreciate and enjoy golf.

1:00:27.200 --> 1:00:32.040
<v Speaker 1>What are the other most fun golf courses? You've been

1:00:32.120 --> 1:00:36.160
<v Speaker 1>listening to the Egg podcast. We do the digging for you.