Speaker 1: Hello everybody, and welcome back to the Psychology of Your Twenties,
Speaker 1: the podcast where we talk through some of the big
Speaker 1: life changes and transitions of our twenties and what they
Speaker 1: mean for our psychology.
Speaker 2: Hello everybody, Welcome back to the show. Welcome back to
Speaker 2: the podcast.
Speaker 1: Today.
Speaker 2: I've got another little bonus episode for you guys. So
Speaker 2: these shorter episodes are a little bit different from our
Speaker 2: usual deep dives. Think of them as like little coffee
Speaker 2: break chats where we tend to just unpack a single term,
Speaker 2: a single theory, a single psychological concept that is probably
Speaker 2: misunderstood or just thrown around pretty casually. And the goal
Speaker 2: here is just to give you something that you can
Speaker 2: kind of listen to on the go, to give you,
Speaker 2: like just enough clarity to be a little bit more
Speaker 2: confident when you hear these terms pop up, but also
Speaker 2: just like for your commute, when you don't want to
Speaker 2: listen to like a forty five minute hour long episode.
Speaker 2: This is the this is the alternative. Today's topic though,
Speaker 2: is one I get asked about all the time. Sociopathy.
Speaker 2: This is a term that is floating around everywhere at
Speaker 2: the moment. It has been for a while on TikTok
Speaker 2: when it comes to true crime content, even like in
Speaker 2: dating advice, and often in ways that aren't exactly accurate.
Speaker 2: So we're going to talk about it today. What is
Speaker 2: sociopathy actually mean, what does it not mean? And how
Speaker 2: does it different from somebody who's a psychopath or a narcissist.
Speaker 2: There's so many different distinctions that we need to make.
Speaker 2: But first things first, sociopathy isn't actually a clinical diagnosis
Speaker 2: in modern psychology. You will not open the DSM five
Speaker 2: and find sociopathy listed as a formal disorder. Anyone who
Speaker 2: tells you that does not know what they're talking about.
Speaker 2: What you will find, however, is antisocial personality disorder or ASPD. Sociopathy.
Speaker 2: Calling someone a sociopath is more so a cultural term.
Speaker 2: Historically it was used at times by a psychologists to
Speaker 2: describe a particular kind of person. But now we call
Speaker 2: it ASPD antisocial personality disorder. What does that disorder? What
Speaker 2: does that come to describe? So the American Psychiatric Association
Speaker 2: defines ASPD as a pattern of disregard for and the
Speaker 2: violation of the rights of others. It often begins in
Speaker 2: childhood or early adolescents. It continues into adulthood, and people
Speaker 2: with ASPD may find it harder to develop empathy for people.
Speaker 2: They have a lack of regard for social norms. They
Speaker 2: are often sitful, highly irritable, have some kind of conduct
Speaker 2: issue or disorder, and show more erratic or impulsive behaviors.
Speaker 2: This is kind of what a sociopath is now seen
Speaker 2: as now Because of this impulsivity, sociopaths are often seen
Speaker 2: as people who are very reactive and very quick to
Speaker 2: maybe anger or hurt others. It might also be unsurprising
Speaker 2: that they also have a lot of substance use issues.
Speaker 2: One survey found that they're almost seven to eight times
Speaker 2: more likely to meet the criteria for alcohol dependence and
Speaker 2: fifteen to seventeen more times likely to meet the criteria
Speaker 2: for drug dependence, and the prevalence of ASPD in prison
Speaker 2: settings is incredibly high. The amount of people that you
Speaker 2: would find who have had interaction with the legal system
Speaker 2: who would receive a diagnosis of anti social personality disorder
Speaker 2: or sociopathy if you want to use the old term,
Speaker 2: is around the one in three mark or In one
Speaker 2: study they did in two thousand and one, they looked
Speaker 2: at twenty three thousand prisoners. It was one in two,
Speaker 2: almost fifty percent of people who are in prison. We
Speaker 2: could flippantly call them sociopaths. They would have a lot
Speaker 2: of the characteristics of this anti social personality disorder. So
Speaker 2: that is really what we're talking about today, this kind
Speaker 2: of individual who just seems to almost know how society operates,
Speaker 2: to understand it, but not really know how to how
Speaker 2: to cope, not even cope, not even know how to
Speaker 2: act within that system, within a human system of empathy
Speaker 2: and of kindness towards other people and of respect and
Speaker 2: regard for other people's feelings. Now, there's another thing that
Speaker 2: people often get confused with sociopaths or sociopathy, and that
Speaker 2: is psychopaths or psychopathy. These two often get lumped together
Speaker 2: all the time. They are not the same thing. Psychopaths.
Speaker 2: That was the original og umbrella term that was used
Speaker 2: to describe anyone with personality types that differed to the
Speaker 2: perceived norms. But in the nineteen thirties and nineteen forties,
Speaker 2: psychiatrists began to kind of notice that just calling anybody
Speaker 2: who had a personality issue a psychopath was incredibly limiting
Speaker 2: in terms of how they were going to diagnose these
Speaker 2: individuals and the different expressions of traits that they all had.
Speaker 2: And so that's when they really started to kind of
Speaker 2: kind of like tear apart or kind of delineate the
Speaker 2: different kind of conditions that fell under this umbrella term,
Speaker 2: and sociopath back in that time was one of them.
Speaker 2: Psychopath remained, but there was a difference. A sociopath is
Speaker 2: someone who developed this kind of antisocial personality because of socialization,
Speaker 2: So because of their upbringing, because of their environment, because
Speaker 2: of their community. That is why they are the way
Speaker 2: they are. Psychopaths the theory is they were just born
Speaker 2: this way. They have this innate trait which makes them callous,
Speaker 2: unaware of others feelings, or just deeply detached but also manipulative.
Speaker 2: So historically, sociopathy is about external factors. Psychopathy is about
Speaker 2: something that is hardwired deep inside of you, and over
Speaker 2: time the lines kind of got blurred, and now we
Speaker 2: have this ASPD diagnosis which typically covers them all. Now,
Speaker 2: one other thing to know about the difference between sociopaths
Speaker 2: and psychopaths is people are still using those terms around you.
Speaker 2: Is that sociopaths actually can form attachments with other people.
Speaker 2: They do love people. They do get married because they
Speaker 2: care about people. Psychopaths, on the other hand, are deeply calculated.
Speaker 2: They are more likely to be successful, they are actually
Speaker 2: less likely to end up in prison, and they mask
Speaker 2: their manipulative traits using human relationships. They will get married,
Speaker 2: they may even have kids, but they rarely actually have
Speaker 2: any kind of deeply empathetic and emotional bond with those individuals.
Speaker 2: The other thing is, sociopaths are highly impulsive. Psychopaths are
Speaker 2: highly highly rational, So that's really important to clarify psychopaths
Speaker 2: as well. They will you will not find them in
Speaker 2: the DSM either. It is still kind of a term
Speaker 2: that is used, especially in forensic psychology and criminology, especially
Speaker 2: for people who researching and trying to understand criminal behavior
Speaker 2: and the causes and the patterns and the societal impact
Speaker 2: of crimes. But as of right now, you could not
Speaker 2: walk into a doctor's office and say and or exhibit
Speaker 2: signs of sociopathy or psychopathy and get that as your label.
Speaker 2: It's a lot more casual. So why are these words
Speaker 2: still used, but also why are they so misused? Why
Speaker 2: do we come across someone who maybe we don't like
Speaker 2: he was maybe a little bit mean, maybe a little
Speaker 2: bit manipulative, and just be like that person is a psychopath.
Speaker 2: That person is a sociopath. A lot of it comes
Speaker 2: down to this thing called language drift. This is when
Speaker 2: a word starts in one context but kind of gets
Speaker 2: stretched until the point where its meaning is completely different
Speaker 2: from how it was originally used. Part of why the
Speaker 2: term sociopath has experienced this language drift and has made
Speaker 2: it into pop culture and our daily psychobabble is because
Speaker 2: it really does describe the worst of the worst, and
Speaker 2: it sounds really dramatic. It has weight, it has an edge.
Speaker 2: Calling your ex a sociopath feels more powerful, maybe even
Speaker 2: more validating, than just saying or describing them based on
Speaker 2: their behaviors, you know, saying they were manipulative, they didn't
Speaker 2: treat me with respect. When you then give that person
Speaker 2: a label and say they were a sociopath, it feels
Speaker 2: like you legitimize what you went through by giving their
Speaker 2: pattern of behavior a more serious and recognizable, socially recognizable label.
Speaker 2: That makes people really go likeugh and take a step back,
Speaker 2: like a sociopath, well, that's scary, that's what serial killers are.
Speaker 2: Pop culture has also poured a lot of fuel on
Speaker 2: the fire. Think about a lot of TV shows like
Speaker 2: Villain l In, Killing Eve, Joe Goldberg in You Like,
Speaker 2: the entertainment industry is so good. They are profoundly good
Speaker 2: at writing these really fascinating, dark, morally ambiguous characters and people,
Speaker 2: and then the label of sociopath gets slapped onto them
Speaker 2: to kind of add to like the mistake of the story.
Speaker 2: But you know, their behaviors are heightened for entertainment, you know,
Speaker 2: the stalking, the murder, the elaborate schemes. That's not always
Speaker 2: going to occur in someone with ASPD or sociopathy, which
Speaker 2: is you know, ASPD is a serious condition. And what
Speaker 2: happens in these situations is that when we see these
Speaker 2: extreme character depictions and we have this extreme language, it
Speaker 2: often just becomes a shorthand for new ones. You know,
Speaker 2: what we really are trying to say is that is
Speaker 2: that person is dangerous. That person is toxic. You guys
Speaker 2: know how I feel about that word. But that person
Speaker 2: is toxic. That person may hurt you, may hurt me,
Speaker 2: has hurt me. And because that complexity of that whole
Speaker 2: situation is hard to sometimes get across, sociopath psychopath makes
Speaker 2: it a lot easier. There's also something about the mystique
Speaker 2: of sociopathy that just keeps people using it. Right, it
Speaker 2: feels like this secret insight or explanation for somebody's behavior,
Speaker 2: when otherwise we really wouldn't have words for who they
Speaker 2: are and why they are the way they are. When
Speaker 2: we just are able to label someone and package them
Speaker 2: up as a sociopath, it feels like you've kind of
Speaker 2: cracked the code of why they act the way they do,
Speaker 2: and it does give a sense of closure. It's like
Speaker 2: this is a neat box to put someone's messy behavior
Speaker 2: into that allows me to just be like, okay, I
Speaker 2: can that relationship is over, or I'm not going to
Speaker 2: be around that person, or they are this all bad individual.
Speaker 2: It makes it easier for you to not feel empathy
Speaker 2: or sympathy for them. The thing is is that a
Speaker 2: lot of people are actually not like that. A lot
Speaker 2: of people have nuanced to their behavior. They act differently
Speaker 2: in different contexts, not because they're a sociopath, just because
Speaker 2: they're human. They have flaws, they make mistakes, and so
Speaker 2: it's why I don't always like when we use this
Speaker 2: extremist language to label something as this very intense thing
Speaker 2: to claim they can never change and to kind of
Speaker 2: not investigate why they may be the way they are
Speaker 2: any further. And you may be saying, like, well, what's
Speaker 2: wrong with that? If they're a bad person, why can't
Speaker 2: I just call it as I see it. I get
Speaker 2: where you're coming from there, And I understand that, I think,
Speaker 2: because it loses meaningful when we actually really do need
Speaker 2: these words and we do want to use them in
Speaker 2: clinical settings or in settings where their magnitude needs to remain. Also,
Speaker 2: just for the simple case of the fact that it
Speaker 2: could do a lot of reputational damage not just to
Speaker 2: that person but to you as well, is also something
Speaker 2: to consider and is why we should maybe be a
Speaker 2: little bit cautious with using these terms. But the final
Speaker 2: argument is that the overuse of these terms really stigmatizes
Speaker 2: people who actually do live with ASPD, who actually do
Speaker 2: have antisocial personality disorder, kind of painting them as villains
Speaker 2: when sometimes they are actually trying very hard to fix
Speaker 2: their behavior and they also aren't necessarily always responsible for it. Now,
Speaker 2: that is a hard thing to say. I do believe
Speaker 2: that people are responsible for their behavior, but the way
Speaker 2: they are, the way they are sometimes was not their
Speaker 2: fault and is incredibly complex, and sometimes saying well that
Speaker 2: person's a sociopath, they will always be a sociopath almost
Speaker 2: guarantees that that will happen. That is a self fulfilling prophecy.
Speaker 2: Whereas when we talk about it as antisocial traits, or
Speaker 2: we talk about it as a personality disorder, a sickness,
Speaker 2: an illness, a condition, rather than destiny, it actually does
Speaker 2: give people the capacity to learn empathy the way that
Speaker 2: you could learn as skill, and to kind of change
Speaker 2: their behavior. This is something very interesting that I've only
Speaker 2: really learned from researching this episode. People with antisocial personality
Speaker 2: disorder do actually have treatment options, and although they are
Speaker 2: highly represented in the prison system and in addiction statistics,
Speaker 2: it doesn't mean that some of them don't actually learn
Speaker 2: empathy and learn how to be kind to people. And
Speaker 2: if you've never had to learn how to be kind
Speaker 2: to people, you might think that's just like so unnatural
Speaker 2: and weird. But for them, it's just like how they
Speaker 2: were born and how they are and there's a lot
Speaker 2: of credit to be given to them that they are
Speaker 2: willing to do that, And I know it sounds so
Speaker 2: strange I'm kind of it does sound like I'm justifying
Speaker 2: sociopathy or antisocial traits, but I do have empathy for
Speaker 2: these people that they don't have empathy, Like, it would
Speaker 2: be very hard to make the right decisions if you
Speaker 2: just had this part of your brain that just genuinely
Speaker 2: didn't work, and it would be very hard to then
Speaker 2: want that part of your brain to be switched on.
Speaker 2: Sometimes I wish I didn't have empathy. I honestly, it
Speaker 2: kind of sucks sometimes. I'm sure that if you're a
Speaker 2: very sensitive or empathetic person, you will understand where I'm
Speaker 2: coming from. Where it's like, you wish you didn't have
Speaker 2: to care about everything and everyone and every tragedy that
Speaker 2: was going on in the world. You wish you didn't
Speaker 2: absorb other people's emotions, but you do, and that's a
Speaker 2: gift and it would be very hard to take on
Speaker 2: if you didn't already know how to do that or
Speaker 2: weren't born that way. Okay, we're going to take a
Speaker 2: short break, and then we're going to talk about how
Speaker 2: this condition actually emerges, where it comes from, and what
Speaker 2: some of those treatment options are that we spoke about before.
Speaker 2: So super excited to get into it. Stay with us.
Speaker 2: We'll be right back after this short break. Okay, we
Speaker 2: are back talking about sociopaths, everybody's favorite topic. So sociopaths,
Speaker 2: people with ASPD, they do walk among us. But what
Speaker 2: makes them like this, because honestly, we actually didn't really
Speaker 2: know until recently. So something we mentioned before is that
Speaker 2: sociopaths ASPD. I know it keep going back and forth
Speaker 2: between them, We'll just say sociopaths. Sociopaths. It's believed that
Speaker 2: their lack of empathy is environmental and social, so it
Speaker 2: was learnt or conditioned from early experiences. Also comes down
Speaker 2: to emotional regulation. A pivotal moment for sociopathy or ASPD
Speaker 2: research came in like the two thousands and the twenty tens,
Speaker 2: where psychologists were really able to get down to the
Speaker 2: mechanism that meant that these individuals could not control their
Speaker 2: impulses even when they wanted to or even when it
Speaker 2: was hurting people. And what they found was that studies,
Speaker 2: neurological studies found that in the brains of people with sociopathy,
Speaker 2: the regions that were involved in emotion and self control
Speaker 2: had very very limited, very reduced activity. This was particularly
Speaker 2: in the prefrontal cortext and the amygdala. The neural pathways
Speaker 2: in those areas seemed basically unused and underdeveloped. These people
Speaker 2: had not learnt at a pivot point how to use
Speaker 2: these areas of their brain. Their brain maybe didn't need
Speaker 2: them or shut them off for survival reasons or for
Speaker 2: whatever it was. And so nowadays as an adult, they
Speaker 2: are impulsive, they are reactive, they are prone to emotional outbursts.
Speaker 2: They have that reduction in empathy twin and genetic studies
Speaker 2: also provide some insight into why these patterns might emerge.
Speaker 2: Researchers show that traits associated with sociopathy are influenced both
Speaker 2: by genetics, but they are switched on by environment. So
Speaker 2: what does that mean. That means that a lot of
Speaker 2: people who go on to develop ASPD or sociopathy they
Speaker 2: always were going to have a genetic predisposition. Basically, there
Speaker 2: was a switch in their brain that started off that
Speaker 2: was always going to be there, and then something in
Speaker 2: the environment turned it on. Now, the thing is, there
Speaker 2: are people for whom that gene will never be turned on.
Speaker 2: They have a really great, happy life. They go through
Speaker 2: childhood being very happy and being loved and so these
Speaker 2: sociopathic traits never emerge, but it's when someone endured childhood trauma, neglect,
Speaker 2: inconsistent parenting, bullying, that that basically it's switched on. So
Speaker 2: someone's come along and gone, all right, time for this,
Speaker 2: we're going to use this now. Many people believe that, yes,
Speaker 2: people are born with this, but it really takes shape
Speaker 2: and is influenced by your environment growing up. What you
Speaker 2: might be thinking is, you know, why can't these people
Speaker 2: just learn Because they've mentioned you know, people can learn empathy.
Speaker 2: Why can't they just learn not to hurt people? Why
Speaker 2: are there all these individuals in prison or dealing with
Speaker 2: addiction that nobody caught soon enough and that didn't learn
Speaker 2: from their mistakes, specifically with the legal system earlier. And
Speaker 2: I also ask myself that question. The answer is that
Speaker 2: a lot of research shows that people who have this
Speaker 2: personality disorder they don't even know that they have it.
Speaker 2: So this is the trick with a lot of personality
Speaker 2: disorders that are like machiavellian or narcissistic or sociopathic. They
Speaker 2: just don't see it. There's a part of their ego
Speaker 2: that protects them from seeing this difference between them and
Speaker 2: other people. Or seeing that difference as being important. They
Speaker 2: might notice patterns. They might know that they constantly get
Speaker 2: into fights, that they struggle to maintain a job or
Speaker 2: a relationship, or that they're making impulsive choices, but they
Speaker 2: don't necessarily connect those behaviors to a personality disorder. A
Speaker 2: lot of the time they may blame other people for that.
Speaker 2: Studies have showed that the really linked to differences as
Speaker 2: well in self reflection and emotional insight, and a lot
Speaker 2: of people who have sociopathy or ASPD they actually can't
Speaker 2: do this thing we called mentalizing, basically understanding your own
Speaker 2: emotions through how your emotions affect others. It's also called metacognition,
Speaker 2: being able to think about your thinking. This ability seems
Speaker 2: to be a lot lower for certain individuals. On the
Speaker 2: flip side, though some people are remarkably aware of their traits.
Speaker 2: Take M. E. Thomas. This is a self identified sociopath.
Speaker 2: She wrote, They wrote Confessions of a Sociopath. I've read
Speaker 2: that book. It's amazing, and they talk about noticing early
Speaker 2: on that they had tendencies toward manipulation. They were emotionally detached,
Speaker 2: they could charm like adults in their life and feel nothing.
Speaker 2: There was all this. It's quite sad to say, but
Speaker 2: these instances of animal abuse, and she realized they realized, like,
Speaker 2: there's something wrong with me. People are reacting to this poorly,
Speaker 2: and she was able to learn how to navigate the
Speaker 2: world by assessing how she could get ahead through people's
Speaker 2: positive and negative appraisals of her actions. This is what
Speaker 2: psychologists call masking, consciously adapting your behavior to fit social
Speaker 2: expectations whilst keeping seemingly more divergent traits under wraps. So
Speaker 2: awareness can exist on a spectrum. Some individuals are genuinely
Speaker 2: oblivious to this being them problem. Others are hyper aware
Speaker 2: and hyper strategic. There's actually some debate in psychology about
Speaker 2: whether certain antisocial traits, like having low empathy or having fearlessness,
Speaker 2: can actually be an advantage in specific context, which is
Speaker 2: why some people don't outlearn them. For example, in high
Speaker 2: stakes professions like if you're a surgeon, if you're in
Speaker 2: business negotiations, if you're in the military, being less emotionally
Speaker 2: reactive can sometimes be an asset, though of course that
Speaker 2: is very controversial to say. Obviously, you would want someone
Speaker 2: performing open heart surgery to care whether their patient lived
Speaker 2: or died, but maybe you wouldn't because then they could
Speaker 2: make the more justified and right decisions without the emotions
Speaker 2: of oh my god, is this person going to be?
Speaker 1: Okay?
Speaker 2: Am I going to kill this person? What are their
Speaker 2: chances of survival? Like if someone thinks purely in the
Speaker 2: math or the likelihood or the rationality of the circumstances,
Speaker 2: maybe it would make them better in this environment. That
Speaker 2: is a debate we literally do not have time to
Speaker 2: get into. In fact, I don't even think I have
Speaker 2: wouldn't even know how to get into that debate because
Speaker 2: it's so back and forth and so complex, But it
Speaker 2: is definitely something to think about. So we've been kind
Speaker 2: of circling around this idea for a while throughout this episode,
Speaker 2: which is that there is treatment for sociopathy. Obviously there
Speaker 2: is not a cure, but there are ways to help
Speaker 2: people manage socially, to reduce impulsivity, to improve relationships, and
Speaker 2: some people can function completely normal as you and I would.
Speaker 2: These include talk therapy, mentalization based therapy, so of course,
Speaker 2: helping people understand their own mindsets and then project their
Speaker 2: mindsets onto other people, which is like a proxy or
Speaker 2: like a B grade version of empathy. There's also cognitive
Speaker 2: behavioral therapy, which I think is literally used for every
Speaker 2: mental personality condition under the sun, but the therapy is
Speaker 2: never often just one thing, and it's incredibly specific to
Speaker 2: the individual people. People won't even treat people with this
Speaker 2: disorder because they are of the camp that it's not
Speaker 2: possible to think. I think it is. I think that
Speaker 2: if this is the best thing that we have, you
Speaker 2: may as well give this person the best thing, not
Speaker 2: just for them, but because like all the people that
Speaker 2: are going to come across them throughout their life, if
Speaker 2: you could teach someone even five percent of the natural
Speaker 2: empathy that a normal person would have, that is going
Speaker 2: to make everyone's odds of being hurt, being harmed, feeling bad,
Speaker 2: feeling terrible a lot less. But again, it is very,
Speaker 2: very controversial as to whether this is an option. You
Speaker 2: can't just put every single person who has these traits
Speaker 2: in prison and expect society to get better, especially since
Speaker 2: they will get out of prison and they will learn,
Speaker 2: and they will mask and they will feel even more
Speaker 2: isolated and willing to harm other people. There are so
Speaker 2: many nuances to this that has gone back hundreds and
Speaker 2: hundreds of years of how do we deal with people
Speaker 2: who just seem to not care about others or seem
Speaker 2: to have this impulsivity towards hurting people. That being said,
Speaker 2: what do you do if you think that a friend
Speaker 2: of yours, a family member of yours, a partner of
Speaker 2: yours does have antisocial personality disorder is a sociopath? I
Speaker 2: think first things first, don't panic and try not to
Speaker 2: diagnose too quickly. Try and see them as a combination
Speaker 2: of traits rather than grouping them under this label for
Speaker 2: as long as you probably possibly can, because I think
Speaker 2: it will again stop you from panicking and stop you
Speaker 2: from freaking out and maybe actually give them the space
Speaker 2: to prove you wrong. Also, it's incredibly emotionally charged. You
Speaker 2: can do a lot of reputational damage, can do a
Speaker 2: lot of harm to the relationship. If you just say
Speaker 2: you're a manipulative you're a sociopath, I don't want anything
Speaker 2: to do with you. But if you genuinely do believe
Speaker 2: they are, pay attention to the isolated incidents and keep
Speaker 2: track of them. You know, one off selfish or manipultive behaviors.
Speaker 2: It happens in everyone, but if it's persistent over time,
Speaker 2: if it's repeated, deceit, a lack of empathy, impulsive or
Speaker 2: reckless behaviors are consistent disregard for others feelings. That's really concerning,
Speaker 2: and you don't actually have to continue a relationship with
Speaker 2: this person. If this is who they are, obviously I
Speaker 2: believe they can learn, they can change. It does depend
Speaker 2: on who the person is. If this is your parent
Speaker 2: and they're in their sixties, maybe that ship has sailed
Speaker 2: for them, and the best thing you can do is
Speaker 2: just accept that this is who they are. They have
Speaker 2: no control over this. Now it's up to you to
Speaker 2: decide whether you want to be in that person's life
Speaker 2: or not. I think if you feel comfortable doing so,
Speaker 2: asking the person, like being curious about what it feels
Speaker 2: like for them, might also just help you and help
Speaker 2: you make a decision and help the relationship. Questions like
Speaker 2: you know, what does it feel like when that like
Speaker 2: big emotion comes up? Or why did you do that
Speaker 2: to that person? What were you hoping to get out
Speaker 2: of that? What does feel like when you're embarrassed? What
Speaker 2: does it feel like when you're angry? If anything else,
Speaker 2: it's just very fascinating to understand their psychology. More, we
Speaker 2: know that sociopaths often don't connect to these social emotions
Speaker 2: in the same way, So maybe that will help you
Speaker 2: see them more clearly for who they are, without expecting
Speaker 2: things from them that they're not capable of, and you'll
Speaker 2: be able to make a more clear cut decision for
Speaker 2: yourself with that information. Knowing that they may never learn
Speaker 2: these emotions, may never connect with you the way that
Speaker 2: you want them to because they are not able to.
Speaker 2: Please seek some support, seek some guidance. For more clarity
Speaker 2: on this, talk to a mental health professional who can
Speaker 2: help you navigate the situation. Set immediate boundaries with immediate consequences,
Speaker 2: because that is like a very sure fire away for
Speaker 2: someone to learn what is and is not acceptable in
Speaker 2: their relationship with you. Rather than betting on them having
Speaker 2: the empathy to be able to tell they just might not,
Speaker 2: you have to speak it to them like a child.
Speaker 2: And sometimes it is just best to walk away like
Speaker 2: you're allowed to just be completely team you and completely
Speaker 2: like I just don't want anything to do with this,
Speaker 2: and yeah, that's actually okay. You're an adult. You know
Speaker 2: what's best for you and your emotional landscape. If this
Speaker 2: is the best decision, you should do it. Anyways, I
Speaker 2: think that's all we have time for today. I know
Speaker 2: I said a mini episode. We're at thirty minutes. I'm
Speaker 2: so sorry, but this topic is just so endlessly fascinating.
Speaker 2: I wish that I could talk about it more. But
Speaker 2: I will leave some resources in the descript including some
Speaker 2: of the books that I've read about this, some of
Speaker 2: the YouTube videos that I've watched that are just incredibly
Speaker 2: fascinating interviews with people who have sociopathic or psychopathic traits.
Speaker 2: It's just wild to hear how differently their brains operate.
Speaker 2: But until next time, make sure you're following us on Instagram,
Speaker 2: make sure that you are following along or subscribed, whether
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