WEBVTT - A Podcast on Zoot Suits? Yes 0:00:00.280 --> 0:00:02.840 Brought to you by the reinvented two thousand twelve camera. 0:00:03.160 --> 0:00:07.560 It's ready. Are you welcome to Stuff you Should Know? 0:00:08.160 --> 0:00:16.439 From House Stuff Works dot Com? Hey, and welcome to 0:00:16.440 --> 0:00:20.239 the podcast. I'm Josh Clark. There's Charles W. Chuckers Bryant. 0:00:20.520 --> 0:00:24.159 And since two of us are sitting together again and 0:00:24.200 --> 0:00:29.720 it's not lunchtime, um leg wrestling time, that's true. This 0:00:29.800 --> 0:00:33.040 means it's a stuff you should know? Right? Yeah, what's 0:00:33.120 --> 0:00:35.680 up to? How are you, Josh? I'm good. We just 0:00:35.760 --> 0:00:38.040 got something in today that I want to give a 0:00:38.040 --> 0:00:42.360 shout out of thanks for to our friend Martin van Nostri. 0:00:42.479 --> 0:00:45.519 Did that come in today today? Okay? He kept emailing 0:00:45.600 --> 0:00:48.680 us pestering me has it not come yet? Like I like, 0:00:48.760 --> 0:00:52.080 I'm the postmaster general or something like that. But anyway, 0:00:52.120 --> 0:00:54.520 he sent us each a T shirt and the new 0:00:54.600 --> 0:00:58.880 CD of his band, The Bangalore's in Vitro Meat is 0:00:58.920 --> 0:01:02.920 the name of the album, and it's pretty awesome. I 0:01:03.000 --> 0:01:04.759 haven't listened to it yet. I just got it. Can't wait. 0:01:04.800 --> 0:01:07.280 He sent us some some songs off of it already, 0:01:07.800 --> 0:01:11.240 some previous cuts. Yeah. He was the first person to 0:01:11.280 --> 0:01:14.160 record the Stuff you Should Know song like in two 0:01:14.200 --> 0:01:17.160 thousand eight, you remember, well, yeah, and I think he 0:01:17.280 --> 0:01:20.600 has a toxoplasmosis song on the new one, right he does. Yeah, 0:01:20.640 --> 0:01:22.560 we've inspired a lot. I think he released a whole 0:01:22.600 --> 0:01:26.000 album of stuff you should know songs really yeah, and 0:01:26.080 --> 0:01:28.200 like quick little punk songs to like a minute and 0:01:28.200 --> 0:01:30.840 a half. So there's like fifty of them. But anyway, 0:01:30.880 --> 0:01:32.959 thanks a lot to Van Nostrin. We won't say his 0:01:33.000 --> 0:01:35.360 real name, but we know it. We do, finally, we 0:01:35.400 --> 0:01:37.759 didn't for a long time. But anyway, if you feel 0:01:37.760 --> 0:01:40.840 like checking that out, it's um the Bangalore's like the 0:01:40.880 --> 0:01:43.759 city in India, and the album is in vitro meat 0:01:44.520 --> 0:01:48.800 and we'll probably get in trouble for endorsing this, so Chuck, 0:01:49.040 --> 0:01:51.520 you want to get to it. Yes? Have you ever 0:01:51.600 --> 0:01:56.200 heard of some dumb laws? Yeah? Man, there are some 0:01:56.320 --> 0:01:58.640 dumb laws in this great land of ours. For example, 0:01:58.680 --> 0:02:02.800 if I may, I've prepared to a shortlist. In Alabama, 0:02:03.480 --> 0:02:08.359 bear wrestling matches are prohibited. It's illegal to sell peanuts 0:02:08.400 --> 0:02:12.480 in Lee County after sundown on Wednesday. It would be 0:02:12.560 --> 0:02:15.200 Lee County, Alabama. Did you give a reason for that one? No, 0:02:15.440 --> 0:02:17.840 there are some This is from I think dumb laws 0:02:17.880 --> 0:02:22.000 Dot com and um. They have like just international laws, 0:02:22.040 --> 0:02:25.400 state laws, local laws, and then under some of them 0:02:25.440 --> 0:02:27.359 they have like full text of the law or why 0:02:27.400 --> 0:02:31.160 this law exists. It's pretty comprehensive site. UM. In Hawaii, 0:02:31.520 --> 0:02:33.960 coins are not allowed to be placed in one's ears 0:02:34.520 --> 0:02:38.040 for spending only. Um. All residents may be fined as 0:02:38.080 --> 0:02:40.720 a result of not owning a boat. You're going to 0:02:40.760 --> 0:02:44.080 Hawaii tomorrow right or a couple of days. I dare 0:02:44.080 --> 0:02:45.639 you to put a coin in your ear and walk 0:02:45.680 --> 0:02:49.200 around and be like, I don't own a boat. I 0:02:49.280 --> 0:02:53.720 don't own a boat. Chumps um back in our fair 0:02:53.760 --> 0:02:56.840 state of Georgia, to legally use profanity in front of 0:02:56.840 --> 0:02:59.200 a dead body which lies in a funeral home or 0:02:59.240 --> 0:03:03.720 in a corner's all us that's respectful law, okay Um. 0:03:03.760 --> 0:03:07.160 In Ackworth, which is close to Keennessaw where I grew up, 0:03:07.240 --> 0:03:09.880 where you had to own a gun, I didn't know this. 0:03:10.040 --> 0:03:14.280 In Ackworth, all citizens must own a rake. Really yeah, 0:03:14.560 --> 0:03:17.679 not a blower? A rake? I think a blower. That's 0:03:17.720 --> 0:03:19.600 kind of like asking a lot of some some of 0:03:19.639 --> 0:03:24.280 the lower income classes, you know. UM. In Athens on Mondays, 0:03:24.320 --> 0:03:28.600 it's illegal for one to whistle very loudly after eleven pm. 0:03:29.040 --> 0:03:34.320 What but on Monday's And then California, of course, is 0:03:34.360 --> 0:03:36.440 going to have some zany laws. They have tons and 0:03:36.520 --> 0:03:40.120 tons of wacky dumb laws. Animals are banned from mating 0:03:40.160 --> 0:03:43.360 publicly within fift feet of a tavern, school or place 0:03:43.400 --> 0:03:50.960 of worship. Women may not drive in a housecoat in Fresno. 0:03:51.280 --> 0:03:54.320 Getting drunk in a playground is against the law. That 0:03:54.440 --> 0:03:57.880 is sound. I don't agree with that one. That's sensible. Uh. 0:03:57.920 --> 0:04:01.160 And then in Los Angeles it's illegal to wear a 0:04:01.280 --> 0:04:07.160 zoot suit. Yeah still still so I bring that up, 0:04:07.280 --> 0:04:09.400 and I knew Chuck with like that last time, because 0:04:10.320 --> 0:04:13.080 I'm sure there's stories behind almost all of those zany laws, 0:04:13.200 --> 0:04:15.640 or at least there's some reasoning. People don't just make 0:04:15.760 --> 0:04:19.520 up crazy laws like bear wrestlings. I'm sure it got 0:04:19.560 --> 0:04:21.440 out of hand once and now they're just like, that's it. 0:04:21.440 --> 0:04:25.480 It's illegal. So Chuck and I actually know the reason 0:04:25.520 --> 0:04:29.520 why zoot suits are illegal in Los Angeles County, California, 0:04:29.600 --> 0:04:31.600 and we're going to tell you about it today. It's 0:04:31.640 --> 0:04:34.600 pretty neat. This little article started off as a bit 0:04:34.640 --> 0:04:38.640 of a a lark. I don't know, but we thought 0:04:38.720 --> 0:04:41.400 zoot suits. Those are interesting and cool, but it's more 0:04:41.400 --> 0:04:43.800 than a suit, as it turns out, it really is. 0:04:43.920 --> 0:04:46.320 It was at least you should probably mention, like, what 0:04:46.440 --> 0:04:49.800 is a zoot suit, Chuck. Everybody's seen them before. Yeah, 0:04:49.880 --> 0:04:52.480 back in the nineteen thirties. Uh, they were very much 0:04:52.480 --> 0:04:56.359 in fashion, especially in UH in uh Latino communities, in 0:04:56.400 --> 0:05:01.080 African American communities coast to coast. Though it seems like uh, 0:05:01.279 --> 0:05:05.240 Caesar Chavez, Malcolm X, Cab calloway, big band leaders, the 0:05:05.360 --> 0:05:08.440 jazz scene in New York all very much associated with 0:05:08.520 --> 0:05:12.120 zoot suit. Tomcat from Tom and Jerry, Yeah, who was 0:05:12.240 --> 0:05:14.760 going after a girl and she said she was a 0:05:14.839 --> 0:05:17.039 square and was corny and he goes out and gets 0:05:17.040 --> 0:05:20.320 some a zoot suit and becomes a cool cat. Cool cat. 0:05:21.040 --> 0:05:24.000 So you'll know a zoot suit. They were originally worn 0:05:24.520 --> 0:05:27.080 made of wool and then later rayon, but you'll know 0:05:27.160 --> 0:05:31.880 it because they're very distinct. They have very broad, padded shoulders, 0:05:32.880 --> 0:05:36.920 very long waisted coats. Uh. Suit pants were worn really 0:05:36.960 --> 0:05:40.240 really high, like up over the belly and uh, we're 0:05:40.320 --> 0:05:43.000 very tight at the top, then ballooned out like mc 0:05:43.160 --> 0:05:46.039 hammer style and then tapered back down again at the 0:05:46.040 --> 0:05:49.440 ankle or we're pegged. Oh of course, yeah, that's not 0:05:49.600 --> 0:05:55.800 you achieved that look. And um, the jackets exaggerated contours 0:05:55.800 --> 0:05:58.279 and colors. A lot of times they would wear the 0:05:58.320 --> 0:06:01.760 big pocket chain that went down to their knee and 0:06:01.800 --> 0:06:05.600 the hat with a feather and it was pointy shoes. Sure, 0:06:05.960 --> 0:06:09.520 um so they If it sounds a lot like, um, pimps, 0:06:10.520 --> 0:06:13.719 seventies pimps, where to you not too far off? I 0:06:13.720 --> 0:06:15.520 guess I think you could make an argument that it 0:06:15.600 --> 0:06:17.559 was a predecessor of that. And in fact, you mentioned 0:06:17.600 --> 0:06:20.720 Malcolm X favorite Zoot suits. I didn't realize this today, 0:06:20.720 --> 0:06:23.320 but in researching zoo suits, Malcolm X used to be 0:06:23.320 --> 0:06:27.120 called Detroit Red, who was in fact a pimp. Yeah, 0:06:27.200 --> 0:06:32.239 and he apparently got his education in Harlem and became 0:06:32.320 --> 0:06:35.240 Malcolm X. Did you not see the movie? Yeah, it 0:06:35.279 --> 0:06:38.279 was good. From what I remember from the awesome Spike 0:06:38.360 --> 0:06:41.440 Lee movie was that he was into the zoot scene 0:06:41.640 --> 0:06:45.040 earlier and then once he you know, became Malcolm X 0:06:45.839 --> 0:06:49.640 and uh not, what was his original name, Shabaz? Yes, 0:06:49.760 --> 0:06:52.679 I believe so, Malcolm Shabaz. So once he became Malcolm 0:06:52.839 --> 0:06:55.840 X and got serious about the civil rights, he ditched 0:06:55.880 --> 0:06:57.280 the zoot suit and stuff, and was a little more 0:06:57.320 --> 0:07:01.960 traditionally garbed right. Um another way, So the zoot suit 0:07:02.000 --> 0:07:03.920 you you just nailed it on the head. You said, 0:07:03.960 --> 0:07:06.479 the zoos suit scene, it was very much part of 0:07:06.480 --> 0:07:09.240 a scene, part of the Harlem renaissance. Um. It was 0:07:09.279 --> 0:07:11.760 part of the pacho scene out in Los Angeles, which 0:07:11.760 --> 0:07:18.400 we'll talk about, Pacho, pachuco, pachuko. I used, I like 0:07:18.520 --> 0:07:22.880 slang on top of slang, so I call it pacho. Um. 0:07:22.960 --> 0:07:26.600 And so it was kind of the uniform of a 0:07:26.680 --> 0:07:30.760 certain kind of scene, apparently, the upscale black nightclubs of Harlem. 0:07:30.800 --> 0:07:34.480 Like if if you saw an African American man walking 0:07:34.480 --> 0:07:36.800 around wearing a zoot suit, you're like, that guy is 0:07:36.800 --> 0:07:39.480 a high roller and he knows how to get into 0:07:39.520 --> 0:07:41.840 the good clubs. I thought you were gonna bust out 0:07:41.920 --> 0:07:45.160 some cab callaway slang. Well, you mentioned cab Callaway was 0:07:45.480 --> 0:07:48.040 one of the the people who love zoos suits. And 0:07:48.080 --> 0:07:53.480 he wrote a dictionary of slang, of jive slang. Thank you. 0:07:54.280 --> 0:07:57.560 I could not be square if I tried, um, And 0:07:57.720 --> 0:07:59.960 one of the one of the words that he put 0:08:00.160 --> 0:08:04.880 down was zoo, which he says means exaggerated. It turns 0:08:04.880 --> 0:08:07.400 out that there's a whole lot of mystery surrounding the 0:08:07.440 --> 0:08:11.200 origins of zoot suit. But if I may, in Cab 0:08:11.280 --> 0:08:14.960 Callaway's jive slang, describe what his zoots suit looks like, 0:08:15.000 --> 0:08:19.040 you did a great job in normal, square, corny terms. 0:08:19.120 --> 0:08:21.720 But if you want to talk like a hepcat from 0:08:21.720 --> 0:08:25.920 the jive jump zoot suit era, you would describe it 0:08:26.000 --> 0:08:28.920 as a killer dealer coat with a drape shape, real 0:08:28.960 --> 0:08:32.960 pleats and shoulders padded like a lunatic cell. Well, it's 0:08:32.960 --> 0:08:36.080 interesting that he said drape because originally they were known 0:08:36.120 --> 0:08:41.079 as drape suits and even advertised as extreme quote extreme 0:08:41.160 --> 0:08:45.640 drapes in newspapers. Yeah, pretty cool. Yeah, so the zoos 0:08:45.760 --> 0:08:48.840 is hanging out there. It's kind of weird. Ralph Ellison 0:08:48.880 --> 0:08:52.320 wrote about Um wrote about it in As an Invisible Man. 0:08:52.880 --> 0:08:58.719 His novel The Narrator encounters Um three young and extravagantly 0:08:58.800 --> 0:09:02.880 dressed blacks in their zoot suits, and he says that 0:09:02.920 --> 0:09:07.600 they were the stewards of something uncomfortable. So he's saying, like, 0:09:07.800 --> 0:09:10.320 there's just it's almost like it was. It's the same 0:09:10.360 --> 0:09:12.480 as if you're if you saw a bunch of rave 0:09:12.600 --> 0:09:16.200 kids wearing like the stupid pants, yes in the nineties 0:09:16.280 --> 0:09:18.720 or whatever you know, or or hip hop kids today. 0:09:18.720 --> 0:09:20.440 It was this. It was the same thing, except this 0:09:20.520 --> 0:09:25.240 was much more upscale than that. But it was basically, 0:09:27.280 --> 0:09:30.040 people have trouble walking in but they're still gotta have 0:09:30.160 --> 0:09:32.480 that look, you know, because that's what the cool kids 0:09:32.480 --> 0:09:37.560 do exactly. So this was you could argue, the original 0:09:37.679 --> 0:09:44.640 American version of counter culture dress, and it grew out 0:09:44.640 --> 0:09:48.640 of Harlem and was later adopted by um Mexican Americans 0:09:48.720 --> 0:09:51.680 or Latino Americans in Los Angeles. Yeah, what's this one 0:09:51.679 --> 0:09:54.400 bit that it could have originated in Gainesville, Georgia? How 0:09:54.400 --> 0:09:56.520 about that? So, yeah, there's a lot of there's some 0:09:56.559 --> 0:09:59.200 origin stories, right and yeah, and they're none of them 0:09:59.200 --> 0:10:01.400 are the same, right and and they're all very different. No, 0:10:01.520 --> 0:10:03.840 but I do like that when you're talking about from Gainesville, 0:10:03.920 --> 0:10:08.000 what isn't Yeah, they a man, a bus driver, I'm sorry, 0:10:08.040 --> 0:10:11.720 bust worker named Clyde Duncan from New York um came 0:10:11.720 --> 0:10:13.080 back to New York with one and said he bought 0:10:13.080 --> 0:10:17.480 it in Gainesville, Georgia and allegedly, uh, he had been 0:10:17.520 --> 0:10:20.240 inspired by Gone with the Wind and wanted to look 0:10:20.280 --> 0:10:23.120 like rhet Butler and so got a Taylor in Gainesville 0:10:23.160 --> 0:10:25.240 to make him this thing. I'd like to go with 0:10:25.280 --> 0:10:27.200 that story. And well, the New York Times put that 0:10:27.240 --> 0:10:29.520 story forth and they said it basically on it quickically 0:10:29.960 --> 0:10:33.920 in and um that was the story for many many 0:10:34.000 --> 0:10:37.360 years until historians actually started to put real effort and 0:10:37.400 --> 0:10:40.280 thought it into the zoot suits, um, and they found 0:10:40.320 --> 0:10:44.360 that there it's possibly true, but most likely, uh, it 0:10:44.520 --> 0:10:49.439 came out of either guys like Cab Callaway wearing them 0:10:49.640 --> 0:10:54.040 or guys like Cab Callaway copying people in the jazz scene. 0:10:54.520 --> 0:10:56.840 And then you know, it basically going forth like that. 0:10:57.600 --> 0:11:01.800 And ultimately it seems that it did come out of 0:11:01.800 --> 0:11:05.000 this era, whether it was uh this Clyde Duncan fella 0:11:05.920 --> 0:11:08.360 who had the idea originally or whatever, you can basically 0:11:08.520 --> 0:11:11.840 say the Harlem Renaissance zoos suits came out of that. 0:11:12.559 --> 0:11:14.839 And you know, I knew that. I did not know 0:11:15.120 --> 0:11:20.160 of its association within the Latino and largely Mexican community. No, 0:11:20.400 --> 0:11:24.760 but that's where like really started to it switched when 0:11:24.800 --> 0:11:27.560 it hit the Latino American community. Before it was just 0:11:27.640 --> 0:11:30.079 like I'm wealthy, I can get into good clubs. I'm 0:11:30.080 --> 0:11:34.640 part of this club scene in Harlem. Um, when it 0:11:34.720 --> 0:11:39.400 hit Los Angeles and was taken up by the Pacos, right, 0:11:40.200 --> 0:11:44.800 um square, Uh, it changed, it transformed, it turned into 0:11:44.800 --> 0:11:49.319 something political and became ultimately a sign of defiance. Yeah. 0:11:49.360 --> 0:11:52.040 In the World War Two, you know, everyone knows that 0:11:52.080 --> 0:11:54.880 there was there was rationing going on everything from food 0:11:54.880 --> 0:12:00.040 to metals and ultimately wool and cloth. So where in 0:12:00.120 --> 0:12:04.320 a zoot suit which required an abundance of cloth was 0:12:05.480 --> 0:12:10.040 deemed not patriotic because you're basically flaunting, Hey, I don't 0:12:10.080 --> 0:12:12.200 care about the war effort. I'm gonna wear my zoot suit. 0:12:12.200 --> 0:12:15.439 That's more important to me, right exactly. So, um. In 0:12:15.440 --> 0:12:18.320 in the forties, the war production board basically said we 0:12:18.360 --> 0:12:20.880 need to cut back all fabric used in the States 0:12:20.920 --> 0:12:25.720 by and to help you, here is the new American suit. 0:12:26.120 --> 0:12:29.280 It's streamline, it uses less fabric. As long as you're 0:12:29.320 --> 0:12:34.119 making stuff, according to these, um, these sketches, you're patriotic, 0:12:34.120 --> 0:12:37.160 you're American, You're within the law. Right. Uncle Sam wanted 0:12:37.160 --> 0:12:39.920 to squear tight clothes pretty much. And if you think 0:12:39.960 --> 0:12:42.280 about if you look at the suits in the fifties 0:12:42.280 --> 0:12:47.160 and sixties and after the forties, Um, the American the 0:12:47.200 --> 0:12:52.120 classic American suit is narrow, narrow cut, the cuffs are high. Yeah. Um, 0:12:52.320 --> 0:12:55.120 so I wonder if that came out. I'm sure, but 0:12:55.840 --> 0:12:57.880 you can take what they were saying a different way, 0:12:58.320 --> 0:13:00.920 and that Uncle Sam's telling you would dressed like this 0:13:01.120 --> 0:13:05.600 and everybody dressed like that. So zoot suits immediately became, 0:13:05.800 --> 0:13:09.720 um a symbol of defiance. Anybody who wore him was saying, 0:13:10.080 --> 0:13:14.000 you know, up yours, Uncle Sam. Uh. And it was 0:13:14.200 --> 0:13:18.880 ultimately illegal to manufacture or advertise as zoot suit or 0:13:18.880 --> 0:13:23.319 anything that fell outside of those American suits. So incredibly, 0:13:23.679 --> 0:13:28.080 bootleg and underground tailors grew up to make and sell 0:13:28.200 --> 0:13:32.800 zoot suits, and at the same time, especially in Los Angeles, 0:13:33.360 --> 0:13:39.160 it had an association with UH gang activity, criminal activity, 0:13:39.160 --> 0:13:44.400 and thuggery, largely because of newspapers that would call them, 0:13:44.440 --> 0:13:47.679 you know, zoot suitors committing crimes. They would you know, 0:13:47.800 --> 0:13:51.960 label people in its particular clothing as being criminals. Essentially. Yeah. Well, 0:13:52.080 --> 0:13:55.040 racism is definitely nothing new in this country, and it 0:13:55.120 --> 0:13:58.800 was hot and heavy in the late thirties early forties 0:13:58.800 --> 0:14:03.840 in Los Angeles among um it was mainly targeted I 0:14:03.840 --> 0:14:07.320 think toward Latino Americans. But it's not like African Americans 0:14:07.320 --> 0:14:10.000 didn't get the brunt of it as well, but basically 0:14:10.040 --> 0:14:12.920 it was white people in California were like, hey, there's 0:14:12.920 --> 0:14:15.440 a lot of you these days, so you're making us 0:14:15.440 --> 0:14:19.560 a little nervous, and um, you wearing the zoos suit 0:14:19.680 --> 0:14:23.080 is easy to target. It just so happened that the 0:14:23.160 --> 0:14:27.600 group that they were targeting was actually kind of homogeneous 0:14:27.720 --> 0:14:31.720 people who wore zoos suits, kind of wore them in defiance, 0:14:31.760 --> 0:14:35.120 but also identified themselves with them. Right, the pachos. It 0:14:35.160 --> 0:14:38.640 was a statement of independence, not necessarily thumbing your nose 0:14:38.680 --> 0:14:41.760 at the United States, but just hey, I'm independent, I'm Latino, 0:14:41.800 --> 0:14:45.000 I'm living in Los Angeles nineties and this is our look. 0:14:45.520 --> 0:14:51.520 So the pachos, Yeah, the pachucos, the pachos. I'm seeing 0:14:51.560 --> 0:14:56.680 pachos right here. Octavio pa said, pachoss Yeah, okay, Um, 0:14:56.840 --> 0:15:01.520 So the pachos were it's They weren't an import from Mexico. 0:15:01.600 --> 0:15:05.000 They were a real American hybrid. They were second generation 0:15:05.520 --> 0:15:10.920 um Latino American kids who, ironically, because of the war effort, 0:15:11.240 --> 0:15:14.120 were latch key kids. Their parents were off working the 0:15:14.240 --> 0:15:17.880 night shift um for war production, and they were basically 0:15:17.960 --> 0:15:20.680 left to them. Their own devices. They called themselves twenty 0:15:20.680 --> 0:15:24.160 four hour orphans, the first latch key kids, and um, 0:15:24.560 --> 0:15:28.200 they were also arguably the first rebels, and out of 0:15:28.240 --> 0:15:34.120 their emergence in America, UM came the whole concept of 0:15:34.200 --> 0:15:37.480 juvenile delinquency. Yeah, I love that one quote from Octavio 0:15:37.560 --> 0:15:39.800 pass And I read that he said the zoot suit 0:15:40.320 --> 0:15:43.760 was a symbol of love and joy or horror and loathing, 0:15:43.840 --> 0:15:47.480 an embodiment of liberty, of disorder, of the forbidden. So 0:15:47.600 --> 0:15:54.040 it was this single fashion item was at the same 0:15:54.120 --> 0:15:58.440 time asserting your independence and individuality as well as what 0:15:58.520 --> 0:16:02.120 white folk saw as thumb in their nose, the white 0:16:02.160 --> 0:16:06.800 man basically, Um, and I guess that's exactly what they 0:16:06.840 --> 0:16:09.720 were doing, because, as you said, like, they weren't necessarily 0:16:10.320 --> 0:16:13.080 wearing the zoos suit as a statement, and they weren't 0:16:13.120 --> 0:16:16.120 anti war protesters, but it was more like, you know what, 0:16:16.160 --> 0:16:19.600 I'm sick of you racist white people, and I'm I'm 0:16:19.640 --> 0:16:21.760 not going to hide my identity. I'm not going to 0:16:21.800 --> 0:16:24.200 try to blend in. I'm not going to go back 0:16:24.240 --> 0:16:28.280 to my traditional roots from Mexico because I wasn't born here. 0:16:28.760 --> 0:16:31.840 But I'm not gonna, you know, join the service and 0:16:32.000 --> 0:16:35.320 wearing American suit like like, so this is this was 0:16:35.360 --> 0:16:42.240 the compromise, and it kicked white people off like crazy, 0:16:42.800 --> 0:16:45.760 especially in Los Angeles. Yeah. Well, at the time, in 0:16:45.800 --> 0:16:50.040 southern California, there was an enormous presence of UM service 0:16:50.080 --> 0:16:53.240 men who were waiting to ship out to the Pacific 0:16:53.280 --> 0:16:56.200 Theater from California. Yeah, and they were, you know, rubbing 0:16:56.240 --> 0:16:59.440 elbows with these guys that a lot of people thought 0:16:59.440 --> 0:17:04.280 were members and zoot suitors, and they rubbed elbows not 0:17:04.359 --> 0:17:08.320 in a very good way either, which you know, ultimately 0:17:08.359 --> 0:17:10.080 led to the zoot suit riots. But there were some 0:17:10.119 --> 0:17:14.880 pretty striking events that led up to that summer. So 0:17:15.080 --> 0:17:17.200 one of the things you said you mentioned was that 0:17:17.240 --> 0:17:20.640 they were getting negative press, right, so people in zoot 0:17:20.680 --> 0:17:24.439 suits were associated with things like um, uh, let me 0:17:24.480 --> 0:17:29.879 see quote, um, the record already reveals killing stabbings in 0:17:29.960 --> 0:17:33.280 cases of innocent women having been molested by zoot suit gangsters. 0:17:33.640 --> 0:17:37.280 That's from the Los Angeles Examiner. And uh. The article 0:17:37.320 --> 0:17:40.880 was titled police must clean up l a hoodlumism, which 0:17:40.920 --> 0:17:44.280 is not a word, right, But so so there's this 0:17:44.359 --> 0:17:48.240 joint effort of UM just general racism among whites in 0:17:48.240 --> 0:17:52.199 the in the general public um and servicemen waiting to 0:17:52.200 --> 0:17:56.439 be deployed specifically, and the Los Angeles media kind of 0:17:56.440 --> 0:18:00.800 fanning the flames, that's right, and then this Sleepy Lagoon 0:18:00.920 --> 0:18:04.520 murder happened. The Sleepy Lagoon case. Sleepy Lagoon, Josh was 0:18:04.560 --> 0:18:08.000 a reservoir by the l A River. It's not there 0:18:08.000 --> 0:18:10.919 anymore in that pastag not at all, like a plastics 0:18:10.920 --> 0:18:14.080 plant there now there's no reservoir. Yes, so don't go 0:18:14.160 --> 0:18:16.840 looking for it, even though they said it's uh, roughly 0:18:17.119 --> 0:18:21.960 it was atlass And Boulevard in Maywood. I know where 0:18:21.960 --> 0:18:23.040 that is actually. I think it's on the way to 0:18:23.040 --> 0:18:27.160 the airport. Uh so the Sleepy Lagoon case. UM. At 0:18:27.160 --> 0:18:30.280 the time, Mexican Americans were denied access to public pools 0:18:30.359 --> 0:18:33.359 and swimming holes and stuff like that, so they used 0:18:33.800 --> 0:18:36.960 Sleepy Lagoon as a big hang out where they would 0:18:37.000 --> 0:18:38.639 go and listen to music and swim and have a 0:18:38.640 --> 0:18:45.879 good time. Um. In August to uh, the body of 0:18:46.040 --> 0:18:49.639 Jose Diaz was found at this reservoir. And what I 0:18:49.680 --> 0:18:53.359 gathered there was a big party, like a big house party, 0:18:53.400 --> 0:18:56.199 where a fight broke out and one guy ended up 0:18:56.200 --> 0:19:00.280 getting killed, and as a result, they rounded up read 0:19:00.440 --> 0:19:05.240 four hundred Mexican American youths had a corrupt trial where 0:19:05.240 --> 0:19:08.520 they basically denied the many civil rights, cooked up evidence, 0:19:08.720 --> 0:19:12.240 had no evidence, had no physical evidence, had no witnesses, 0:19:12.720 --> 0:19:15.080 nothing of the sort. And they basically pinned that murder 0:19:15.119 --> 0:19:19.280 on twelve guys. Is that right? Nine kids? Nine kids, 0:19:21.280 --> 0:19:24.520 but they railroaded nine with no evidence that the guy 0:19:24.560 --> 0:19:28.800 had even been murdered. And eventually the Sleepy Lagoon Defense 0:19:28.800 --> 0:19:31.679 Committee and the U. S. District Court of Appeals overturned 0:19:31.720 --> 0:19:36.080 that as a miscarriage of justice. Right, but the damage 0:19:36.119 --> 0:19:38.800 was already done. Yeah, and his killer, incidentally, was never found. 0:19:38.880 --> 0:19:41.960 They never singled anyone out, which is sad. That's kind 0:19:41.960 --> 0:19:44.040 of lost a lot of times, I think. But at 0:19:44.040 --> 0:19:45.600 the same time, you can't just cook up a case 0:19:45.640 --> 0:19:48.120 against dudes that were there and say that they did 0:19:48.160 --> 0:19:52.080 it exactly. So Um. The press attention that the Sleepy 0:19:52.160 --> 0:19:57.720 Lagoon case received just fan the flames further and further. Um. 0:19:57.800 --> 0:20:03.160 And then uh, in June, know May of that's when 0:20:03.200 --> 0:20:06.399 things really started to take a term for the worst. Um. 0:20:06.440 --> 0:20:09.800 I guess about a dozen servicemen I think Navy boys 0:20:10.200 --> 0:20:15.600 were um down in East l A. And uh, a 0:20:15.600 --> 0:20:18.120 few of them approached some girls. One of them kept walking, 0:20:18.520 --> 0:20:20.879 and the one that kept walking past a group of 0:20:20.920 --> 0:20:25.600 pouchos who were wearing zoot suits, and when when he 0:20:25.680 --> 0:20:28.520 passed um one of them apparently raised his hand and 0:20:28.560 --> 0:20:31.040 what the guy took as a threatening manner, so the 0:20:31.040 --> 0:20:34.520 serviceman grabbed his arm, and right after that everything went 0:20:34.560 --> 0:20:36.600 black because somebody knocked him over the back of his 0:20:36.680 --> 0:20:38.920 head with something and he fell and broke his jawn 0:20:38.920 --> 0:20:43.760 in two places. Okay, they gotta see it, but before 0:20:43.760 --> 0:20:48.639 they even react, the the pouchos jump them, and these 0:20:49.600 --> 0:20:53.800 eleven other servicemen fight their way out and fight their 0:20:53.840 --> 0:20:56.200 way over to where the guy is laying, the guy 0:20:56.359 --> 0:20:58.840 who's knocked out with the broken jaw and him and 0:20:58.880 --> 0:21:01.399 get him out of there. So this is not This 0:21:01.480 --> 0:21:06.240 is not bode well for UM Mexican American white relations 0:21:06.760 --> 0:21:11.199 in Los Angeles in ninety A few days after that, like, 0:21:11.280 --> 0:21:13.679 revenge is on the mind of everybody after news of 0:21:13.720 --> 0:21:16.800 this gets out, Yeah, big time, especially in the military community. 0:21:16.920 --> 0:21:19.560 And basically sort of the same thing happened Main Street 0:21:19.560 --> 0:21:23.080 East l A on June three. Eleven sailors got off 0:21:23.080 --> 0:21:27.960 a bus and there were words with a gang of 0:21:28.080 --> 0:21:31.040 young Mexicans. And when I say gang, I should say group, 0:21:31.240 --> 0:21:35.560 and we shouldn't say necessarily Mexicans. The likelihood was that 0:21:35.600 --> 0:21:39.359 they were Mexicans and authorities, but there they were Latino Americans. 0:21:40.760 --> 0:21:42.320 I tried to get to the whole bottom of the 0:21:42.359 --> 0:21:48.080 word Chicano as well. I know hispanic is from Ronald Reagan? 0:21:48.359 --> 0:21:51.360 Is it? And it's basically it insinuates that everybody from 0:21:51.400 --> 0:21:55.280 Central or Latin America or South America comes from Hispaniola. Well, 0:21:55.320 --> 0:21:57.320 and what I found from Chicano was that it was 0:21:57.359 --> 0:22:01.040 a derogatory term early on, very negative of but it 0:22:01.119 --> 0:22:05.760 meant specifically Mexican American. And then later I believe they 0:22:05.840 --> 0:22:09.280 some some of them chose to embrace that word pride. 0:22:09.400 --> 0:22:12.200 Yeah there's sixties. Yeah, yeah, it's interesting. I don't know 0:22:12.200 --> 0:22:17.119 where it stands today, so say it. Uh So they 0:22:17.200 --> 0:22:20.919 ran into this group of young Latinos dressed in zoot suits, 0:22:20.920 --> 0:22:24.159 gotten an argument. The sailors, of course, claimed that they 0:22:24.160 --> 0:22:27.760 were jumped, although it's unclear exactly how it started, and 0:22:27.960 --> 0:22:31.000 the l a p D responded and with a group 0:22:31.040 --> 0:22:34.040 of off duty officers and on duty officers, officers calling 0:22:34.080 --> 0:22:39.000 themselves the Vengeance Squad and they basically took it upon 0:22:39.040 --> 0:22:41.920 themselves to clean up the streets of East l A 0:22:42.080 --> 0:22:45.679 to the cops rough house style. The cops, including off 0:22:45.760 --> 0:22:49.959 duty cops, took on the name the Vengeance Squad and 0:22:50.040 --> 0:22:54.160 went down to the Latin American Quarters, Latino American Quarters, 0:22:54.160 --> 0:22:56.720 and just started beating people up. Yeah, and this really 0:22:56.760 --> 0:22:59.560 really set off what would be known as the zoot Suit. 0:22:59.720 --> 0:23:04.040 Right the next day, on June four, about two hundred U. S. 0:23:04.160 --> 0:23:07.560 Navy servicemen jumped in a bunch of taxis, went to 0:23:07.600 --> 0:23:10.160 East l A. And a caravan, yeah, and a caravan 0:23:10.240 --> 0:23:15.760 like a mob essentially, and started beating up Mexican kids, 0:23:15.800 --> 0:23:18.880 twelve and thirteen year old boys, clubbing them, stripping them 0:23:18.880 --> 0:23:21.119 of their clothes, burning their clothes. Those are That was 0:23:21.160 --> 0:23:23.720 the first group they encountered, and a bunch of adults 0:23:23.720 --> 0:23:26.720 tried to intervene. They got Club two. Then after that 0:23:26.840 --> 0:23:29.800 it wasn't just people wearing zutsus, it was any Latino 0:23:29.840 --> 0:23:33.840 American that they saw. They stormed movie theaters, they stormed bars, 0:23:33.920 --> 0:23:36.280 they stormed like and yeah, they pulled them off the 0:23:36.320 --> 0:23:39.199 street cars. Yeah. They and black guys got caught up 0:23:39.240 --> 0:23:44.040 in it too. African American guy on on the street car. 0:23:44.600 --> 0:23:47.520 And I think it wasn't watts Um who was pulled 0:23:47.520 --> 0:23:50.840 off and beat into a pulp by servicemen just because 0:23:50.840 --> 0:23:53.119 he happened to be sitting there and was black. It 0:23:53.200 --> 0:23:56.960 was literally a riot and it was perpetrated by white 0:23:56.960 --> 0:23:59.879 servicemen for several days. It was known as the Zutsu riots. 0:24:00.000 --> 0:24:04.119 Ops were there, but they had orders to not arrest 0:24:04.200 --> 0:24:07.200