Speaker 1: Play Around the NFL podcast Wolves Andy, don't it a Beer?
Speaker 2: Hello, cart Daddy.
Speaker 3: Welcome to another edition of Around the NFL.
Speaker 4: My name is Dan Hansis comes to you from a
Speaker 4: virtual room filled with heroes across Angeles.
Speaker 3: Mark Sessler, Greg Rosenthal, What was that?
Speaker 2: Carrot Daddy?
Speaker 3: Jason Zumol, Thank you. Buddy.
Speaker 2: Wellton is one of the rare gentlemen. I wish I
Speaker 2: was one of these that just gets better looking as
Speaker 2: he gets older.
Speaker 5: I thought he's become distinctly better looking in fact last year,
Speaker 5: and I know we just sort of had an air
Speaker 5: of confidence and eased his game as well. But we'd
Speaker 5: see him on the sideline compared to early career. He
Speaker 5: almost had like a dashing villain look to him at times.
Speaker 4: Well it's the it's the chiseld eyebrows that were crying
Speaker 4: out for something that compl and then a very healthy,
Speaker 4: masculine beard came in and away we go.
Speaker 3: But enough about that. We're going to get to Andy Dalton.
Speaker 4: But first let's welcome in. In this very important episode
Speaker 4: of the off season where we do break down the
Speaker 4: Dalton scale, we have to bring in a heavy hitter.
Speaker 4: So here she comes from ESPN the Queen of NFL Media,
Speaker 4: Mina Kimes.
Speaker 6: Wow, hello, thank you for joining me. Fourth appearance? Now,
Speaker 6: fourth appearance?
Speaker 2: What fifth?
Speaker 6: Maybe I'm not keeping track.
Speaker 2: We should do that.
Speaker 4: We should do that SNL thing where you if you
Speaker 4: are on the show five times, you get a jacket.
Speaker 6: I would love that. I would love it. Greg has
Speaker 6: been on my podcast, The Menichime Show featuring Lenny definitely
Speaker 6: more than five times, so I think the scales are
Speaker 6: still tilted in your guys' favor in terms of me
Speaker 6: owing you appearances.
Speaker 2: You've got to get gregto Yeah, I need a co
Speaker 2: I never brought in chips as you did when you
Speaker 2: got sick on the way to your first appearance. I
Speaker 2: think on this show on the way and have to
Speaker 2: stop at a gas station to puke, I believe. But
Speaker 2: I also have never sat next to you in first
Speaker 2: class on the way to the super Bowl, which which
Speaker 2: Mark did, and I feel like we should at least
Speaker 2: find out a little more.
Speaker 5: I felt lucky to do that. I thought it was
Speaker 5: you know, I think for both of us. You know,
Speaker 5: when you sit down and it's like do we talk
Speaker 5: or do we pretend we're now reading a book with
Speaker 5: headphones on it was a brief flight out of Burbank
Speaker 5: to Phoenix, and so it was just the right amount
Speaker 5: of time where I wasn't starting to question myself, like
Speaker 5: am I truly just annoying Mina at high levels?
Speaker 6: At this point, you were not annoying me. And it
Speaker 6: was the perfect length because I think if it was
Speaker 6: let's say, the super Bowl was in Indianapolis or something,
Speaker 6: or you know, I did a three hour plus flight right,
Speaker 6: one of us at some point would have had to
Speaker 6: transition to putting on headphones, opening a book, but not
Speaker 6: so Burbank to Phoenix perfect for a conversation.
Speaker 7: Real time.
Speaker 4: And I remember, you know, once Greg and I because
Speaker 4: we flew out of a different airport, Rendezvoud, and we
Speaker 4: ended up at a super Bowl party that Mina was at.
Speaker 3: Mina came over.
Speaker 4: And because she's class act, said hi and everything, and
Speaker 4: she was like, yeah, I was next to Mark Sessler
Speaker 4: on the plane and it was a wild conversation.
Speaker 3: And then I go to Marc.
Speaker 4: I said, yeah, you were next to Mina on the
Speaker 4: flight and He's like, yeah, it was, you know, just
Speaker 4: a regular conversation.
Speaker 3: It was. So I would love to know the details
Speaker 3: of this conversation.
Speaker 7: At some point I thought it was enriching. I'll just
Speaker 7: I'll describe it as that.
Speaker 6: Yeah, that's between me and Mark to so I'm make
Speaker 6: guys jealous.
Speaker 4: The Minachimes Podcast, The Minachimes Show featuring Lenny, ESPN all over.
Speaker 4: In fact, if you go, if you were to like
Speaker 4: find this is how many shows Mina is on on ESPN.
Speaker 4: If you were to go find one of those old
Speaker 4: like hunting and fishing shows that ESPN would air before
Speaker 4: Sports Center in nineteen ninety two, you would find a
Speaker 4: young Mina comes on one of those fishing games. That's
Speaker 4: that's true story. Find it and you'll and you'll thank me.
Speaker 4: And now she's giving us just a little bit of
Speaker 4: her time. Today we're going to talk the Dalton Scale.
Speaker 4: How familiar are you with the Dalton Scale.
Speaker 3: We're going to get to a little later, but it's
Speaker 3: just out of curiosity.
Speaker 6: Oh, I know the Dalton Scale. I've heard you guys
Speaker 6: talk about it. It's not a great episode to be
Speaker 6: on in terms of public opinion, because I feel like
Speaker 6: it's a scale that is positioned to enrage fan bases.
Speaker 6: Because no fan base wants to be told that their
Speaker 6: quarterback is the prime meridian. It's just not it's somehow
Speaker 6: more insulting than you know, being a rebuilding told you're
Speaker 6: a rebuilding team, and yet here I am ready to
Speaker 6: alienate one fan base.
Speaker 2: Well, you don't want to be one of those NFL
Speaker 2: media people out there. I'm not going to name any names,
Speaker 2: but I see their strategy, and their strategy in the
Speaker 2: off season is pump everyone up and so that every
Speaker 2: fan base likes you, every front office likes who talk
Speaker 2: great about ownership like they don't have enough, like people
Speaker 2: talking nice about them, like talk great about the executive
Speaker 2: just nice, nice, nice all off season. That's not what
Speaker 2: you get here. We look for mediocrity. Thought.
Speaker 4: I thought you were gonna say, you don't like the
Speaker 4: people in our business who basically rip off this idea
Speaker 4: and pretend like they started it. Because the Dalton scale
Speaker 4: is ip of around the NFL. Can't wait to talk
Speaker 4: about it, But first, let us do a little bit
Speaker 4: of news.
Speaker 2: What's your favorite tailor?
Speaker 4: Seff song?
Speaker 8: Too many, too many to count anything off of folklore.
Speaker 8: Probably August the one going way back. I would say, Uh,
Speaker 8: New Year's was it newsday or news Newsday? That's a banger. Yeah,
Speaker 8: how he picked this one. But if I picked one album, definitely.
Speaker 4: Folklore, so on brand that Aaron Rodgers would be sitting.
Speaker 4: I picture him sitting in the woods somewhere, maybe on
Speaker 4: a bluff and Malibu, listening to the one uh and
Speaker 4: Folklore in general on repeat and just getting real deep.
Speaker 5: Man, Dan, I gotta ask you, like, are you uh,
Speaker 5: We're getting a lot of Aaron Rodgers and it's you know,
Speaker 5: I think he's been if anything, warmed up and open
Speaker 5: with the New York media.
Speaker 7: Are you enjoying this experience?
Speaker 5: I know you were a little hesitant going in to
Speaker 5: this aspect of it.
Speaker 4: I am enjoying having Aaron Rodgers as the quarterback of
Speaker 4: my team.
Speaker 2: Yes, yes, all right. I mean that was very political
Speaker 2: answer also, like he's that was the kind of answer
Speaker 2: you gave when you you said, like, oh, I'm a
Speaker 2: big swifty. But then when they actually asked him, he
Speaker 2: realized like, oh, he was kind of just bce maybe.
Speaker 3: I mean, he dropped some deep cuts there.
Speaker 4: I mean, okay, the one by the way, which is
Speaker 4: the lead track on Folklore, is like I don't know
Speaker 4: if you're a swifty or anything close Mina, but that
Speaker 4: is the one if you ever like and Mark, I
Speaker 4: would be careful with because you're you're a nostalgic guy
Speaker 4: with you'll post the photos of camp happiness and things.
Speaker 4: That's the one, like if the one that quote got
Speaker 4: away or the one that you have regrets about Swift?
Speaker 3: Now that one?
Speaker 4: So I wonder who Rogers is talking about in the
Speaker 4: one or thinking what.
Speaker 3: They should say.
Speaker 6: They have a lot in common. Aaron Rodgers and Taylor
Speaker 6: Swift both provocative, loyal fan bases, divisive, talk a lot
Speaker 6: about their exes. I guess he doesn't talk about his exes.
Speaker 6: He's got a string of exes. And now we'll see
Speaker 6: what he says about the Packers.
Speaker 3: But oh no, is he gonna end up together?
Speaker 9: Well?
Speaker 6: I would say this whole season is kind of like
Speaker 6: an Aaron Rodgers song about the ex Maybe I don't
Speaker 6: know anything about Taylor Swift's that's not obvious from the
Speaker 6: way I just depicted her.
Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, you know tall individuals.
Speaker 4: Yeah, maybe this offseason, Mark, and maybe this is the
Speaker 4: all too well ten minute version where it's just gonna
Speaker 4: drag on and on and it doesn't need to be
Speaker 4: ten minutes, but it is. Let's get to the news
Speaker 4: and start with uh, let's do some rule stuff.
Speaker 3: Real quick here.
Speaker 4: The NFL owners voted on Tuesday to approve resolution that
Speaker 4: allows players to fare catch kickoffs with the resulting possession
Speaker 4: beginning at the team's own twenty five yard line.
Speaker 3: This is in many ways tied to.
Speaker 4: Player safety, of course, and in other news the Thursday
Speaker 4: Night Football. This happened right after we finished taping our
Speaker 4: last show, which is always super annoying. They approved the
Speaker 4: flex scheduling for Thursday Night Football a modified proposal. The
Speaker 4: strict requirements are as follows. Thursday games can only be
Speaker 4: flex between weeks thirteen and seventeen, with a four week
Speaker 4: notice required. Only two Thursday Night games could be flex
Speaker 4: per year, and the resolution notes that the flexible scheduling
Speaker 4: for TNF is on a quote trial basis.
Speaker 3: Let's hear from rog on.
Speaker 10: This flex has been part of our scheduling for quite
Speaker 10: a while. We expanded it to Thursday Night. It will
Speaker 10: be used judiciously if at all. It's a very limited
Speaker 10: time period, and it's also something that is what we
Speaker 10: would consider a higher bar. We expanded it to twenty
Speaker 10: eight days in the context of our fans and making
Speaker 10: sure that they have appropriate notice if that does Happennina.
Speaker 3: And John Mara is not happy.
Speaker 6: How about you with the flex aspect. Yeah, I am
Speaker 6: kind of surprised that anyone can gin up really strong
Speaker 6: emotions in response to this, but it's happening. It's not
Speaker 6: that many games. I don't have the schedule in front
Speaker 6: of me, but when I looked at the final five
Speaker 6: or whatever Thursday games, there was only one that jumped
Speaker 6: out as being an obvious candidate.
Speaker 2: Why I know it's one it is. I know it's one.
Speaker 2: It is, And you're saying you can't get imagine anyone
Speaker 2: getting worked up. This is the one game of the
Speaker 2: year I can go to with my family if they
Speaker 2: move it. So immediately I was like when I saw
Speaker 2: this rule, I was like, that's the game they'll probably move.
Speaker 2: My daughter, who loves the rams, will has been looking
Speaker 2: forward to that. We didn't go out all last year,
Speaker 2: Like that's the game we're going to go to if
Speaker 2: it gets moved to Sunday, which is Christmas. She will
Speaker 2: not go to an NFL game this year because she'll
Speaker 2: be flying over to Japan and we wouldn't have gone
Speaker 2: on Christmas anyways. But uh, there We're not gonna go
Speaker 2: my daughter see football. If they move it, they're not
Speaker 2: gonna see football. But we can't go on Sundays because
Speaker 2: it works. So Thursday night's the only chance I would get.
Speaker 2: And if it, if it moves, unbanked.
Speaker 4: Greg aheads, let Greg take a Sunday off and take
Speaker 4: his daughter to a game.
Speaker 5: I've long said that we should each during the lengthy
Speaker 5: NFL season have our own bye weeks. So Greg, if
Speaker 5: you were willing to take that, you could go to
Speaker 5: the game no matter what.
Speaker 7: I'm with Mina though, because if you look at these games.
Speaker 5: Real quick, Seahawks Cowboys, like, who's pulling the Cowboys off
Speaker 5: Prime time unless they've been hit by a nuclear bomb
Speaker 5: at some point during the season. Patriot Steelers, Chargers, Raiders, That, Saints,
Speaker 5: Rams and Jets. Brown's we'll see where those two teams are.
Speaker 5: But that could be a spicy finale. So it's not
Speaker 5: like these un less injuries strike. I don't hate that.
Speaker 5: Do you have that flexibility? It's a it's a massive
Speaker 5: fu to traveling fans. I think we all get that,
Speaker 5: but I think the NFL has been telling us loud
Speaker 5: and clear for a long time. This is we are
Speaker 5: just a hit television show and we want the best
Speaker 5: episodes possible late in the year.
Speaker 4: Follow the money and other news. Austin Eckler, he listened.
Speaker 4: Austin Eckler wanted a big new contract entering his age
Speaker 4: twenty eight season. That's not how it works for running
Speaker 4: backs entering their age twenty eight season, which sucks for
Speaker 4: Eckler and his counterparts, of course, but he did get
Speaker 4: a little bit of love from the Chargers, who added
Speaker 4: a one point seventy five million incentive to his contract.
Speaker 4: He will be a free agent mark after the upcoming season.
Speaker 4: It feels like at that point the pro walk and
Speaker 4: then you know, heads up, probably not going to be
Speaker 4: an overly warm free agency pool for him either, But.
Speaker 3: That's just the way it is with this position.
Speaker 5: I was watching a few clips from games from back
Speaker 5: like in the eighties, and it's when you had guys
Speaker 5: like Kevin Mack who had those massive shoulder pads and
Speaker 5: like no one could drag him down. They're just like
Speaker 5: the center and the heartbeat of the team. And we
Speaker 5: got a guy who was one hundred and seventy seven
Speaker 5: catches and thirty eight touchdowns over the last two seasons,
Speaker 5: and they're trying to keep them happy with a really
Speaker 5: small piece of pie that runs off incentives. So yeah,
Speaker 5: I don't think he'll be with the Chargers after this season.
Speaker 2: I feel like Kevin Mack is Mark's equivalent of a
Speaker 2: football player camp happiness. Like he win, he just needs
Speaker 2: to go to like a happy place. He just watches
Speaker 2: eighties clips? How many times? How many times has Kevin
Speaker 2: mac come up on this many times?
Speaker 5: The dominating physical specimen. I'd suggest you check them out.
Speaker 2: I'm a little worried, though, Mina don't. Can't you see
Speaker 2: imagine them doing a little bit of that like Arko
Speaker 2: Murray in his last year in Dallas, where they're just like,
Speaker 2: all right, it's you know, we've been holding your carry
Speaker 2: down and just like give them three hundred and fifty
Speaker 2: touches this year.
Speaker 6: I think that's likely. And I thought this seemed inevitable
Speaker 6: when there was unsurprisingly not any trade interest in Eckler,
Speaker 6: but also because the Chargers did nothing at the position,
Speaker 6: I thought in the draft they might add some death
Speaker 6: because they really haven't been able to find a reliable backup,
Speaker 6: especially someone who can pass protect behind Eckler, and they're
Speaker 6: rolling into the season with the same same guy as
Speaker 6: Joshua Kelly and Isaiah Spiller, I believe unless I'm missing someone,
Speaker 6: so it felt like they were going to make it
Speaker 6: work in some way. I do question whether the run
Speaker 6: game will improve. It's probably more predicated on, you know,
Speaker 6: getting Rashaan Slater back and whatnot, because it was so
Speaker 6: insufficient at the end of the season. As good as
Speaker 6: we all as much as we like Eckler, but yeah,
Speaker 6: it's a cold world out there for a running Backsits.
Speaker 2: Line looks good though. I just finished projected starters, which
Speaker 2: felt really good yesterday. I'm done. I'm done writing, you
Speaker 2: know until camp uh and so that's done, and I
Speaker 2: was like, this is a bizarro Chargers team. The offensive
Speaker 2: line looks kind of great if if Slayter's healthy.
Speaker 4: Speaking of which, we did the running back draft on
Speaker 4: our last show and on the Late Jim Brown and Mark.
Speaker 4: Not surprisingly, it appeared that you got the most support
Speaker 4: for your list, which I would agree with too. I
Speaker 4: think the draft worked out really well for you, Greg.
Speaker 4: You did finish a distant third, and someone actually on
Speaker 4: Twitter his name is jono oudwad or Odowd messaged us
Speaker 4: I created a Twitter account, specifically to tweet that he
Speaker 4: enjoyed your meltdown. During the episode, he called it a
Speaker 4: slow Greg's slow motion car crash during the RB mock
Speaker 4: draft made my week.
Speaker 3: Thank you, you know what.
Speaker 2: It made for good podcasting, and I do want to
Speaker 2: track this during the season. Let's let's see how bad
Speaker 2: my car crash looks. I'm gonna be like the Saints,
Speaker 2: like trading up for people you've never heard of, and
Speaker 2: then it works out great.
Speaker 7: I don't like my I liked.
Speaker 5: I can see the numbers, and I have been favored
Speaker 5: and I had the first pick, and so it's like
Speaker 5: it looks good on paper, but that just feels like
Speaker 5: doom is ahead. Let's let's see where we are in December,
Speaker 5: because I think my list could fall apart real quick.
Speaker 3: Right. In other news, Lamar Jackson is.
Speaker 4: Well paid and a member of the Ravens still and
Speaker 4: has a new offensive coordinator and some new weapons. Here
Speaker 4: is what Lamar had to say about how he envisions
Speaker 4: the offense for the Baltimore Ravens looking in twenty twenty three.
Speaker 11: I mean just being able to throw the ball down
Speaker 11: the field. You know, we sometimes sometimes you know, we
Speaker 11: can't running out going run. I can't want to take
Speaker 11: you so far, you know, And I feel like with
Speaker 11: this new era of teams and offenses in the league,
Speaker 11: I feel like we need that. In coach TODM. Munkin,
Speaker 11: when I'm saying his offense so far is looking tremendous.
Speaker 7: You feel like you're they don't won't have to run
Speaker 7: as much and that'll maybe be scaled back a little bit.
Speaker 11: Absolutely, absolutely, especially with the receivers we have there.
Speaker 3: You go, me ands.
Speaker 4: The conventional wisdom now is that with the new offense
Speaker 4: and these weapons, that Lamar Jackson is poised to have
Speaker 4: a big, kind of rising type season that maybe could
Speaker 4: even resemble his MVP year of a few years back.
Speaker 4: Are you buying all in on stock that Lamar is
Speaker 4: going to be a monster this year.
Speaker 6: I'm so overleveraged on Raven's offense stock that my house
Speaker 6: is up for you know. I took out a loan
Speaker 6: on it. Maybe too much, because you're counting on a
Speaker 6: couple of receivers with pretty recent injury history in Beckham
Speaker 6: Junior and Bateman. Both of them are I actually feel
Speaker 6: as being a little bit duplicative. So if one of
Speaker 6: them were to go down. I still think the combination
Speaker 6: of the other save Flowers and Mark Andrews, would be sufficient.
Speaker 6: But I yes, everything they're selling. Everything I read about
Speaker 6: Todd Monkin thinking about his offenses over the years, thinking
Speaker 6: about how he's going to use these players. I mean,
Speaker 6: can you guys name the Ravens receivers at the end
Speaker 6: of the season, they're like one, two, three.
Speaker 7: They're leading receiver like mine was.
Speaker 2: DuVernay was hurt. Yeah, that's right, there we go.
Speaker 3: It was bad.
Speaker 6: Deshaun Jackson was one of the Sean Jackson, Yes, I
Speaker 6: just don't understand how you cannot The improvement is so dramatic.
Speaker 6: It's hard for me to imagine a situation when it
Speaker 6: where the passing game isn't at least better.
Speaker 2: Well, DuVernay and Agila right now are there four and
Speaker 2: they're five and that's not even counting Mark Andrews, and
Speaker 2: that they would have been one two at the end
Speaker 2: of last year. Verna was hurt like everyone else on
Speaker 2: that roster. The comment that Lamar made that you know,
Speaker 2: I think was the most telling was how Monkin was
Speaker 2: just allowing him to protections and change the plays in
Speaker 2: a much different way and enabling way. Like doing real
Speaker 2: quarterback stuff, and it just wasn't the case in the
Speaker 2: Greg Roman system, and it made sense in that system
Speaker 2: they were just going for different things. But he he
Speaker 2: seemed excited about being able to do what he wants
Speaker 2: at the line of scrimmage, being able to change the
Speaker 2: protection a little more flexibility, So real quarterback e stuff
Speaker 2: as our friend.
Speaker 5: The taste, well, it's like you had an MVP quarterback
Speaker 5: who you know, just a couple of years ago, went
Speaker 5: public with Rich Eyesen saying that we're going against defenses
Speaker 5: that are calling out our plays as a line of
Speaker 5: scrimmage because of that lack of flexibility. So it's like
Speaker 5: they needed to make a change and they found the
Speaker 5: right people to dip into this offense. So it's completely
Speaker 5: it's a different Ravens experience.
Speaker 3: Will be interesting to see, all right.
Speaker 4: Finally in the news, DeAndre Hopkins, I'm surprised, I don't
Speaker 4: know about you guys, that he never got traded or
Speaker 4: hasn't been traded yet. He is a veteran wide receiver
Speaker 4: that even when he came back from a suspension last year,
Speaker 4: performed like a number one wide receiver the Cardinals. Obviously,
Speaker 4: you are going in a different direction organizationally, not a Super
Speaker 4: Bowl contender. I feel like he could be a final
Speaker 4: piece for somebody. But there he is, still in Arizona.
Speaker 9: Uh.
Speaker 3: Here he was on the I Am.
Speaker 4: Athlete podcast, uh, talking about his situation right now.
Speaker 9: What I want is stable management upstairs. I think that's
Speaker 9: something that I haven't really had, you know, the past
Speaker 9: couple years of my career, coming from Houston, so being
Speaker 9: in Arizona.
Speaker 5: Uh.
Speaker 9: You know, so I've been through three to four gms
Speaker 9: my career show with stable management.
Speaker 3: A QB who loves.
Speaker 9: The game, QB who uh you know, brings everybody on
Speaker 9: board with him and which is not just himself but
Speaker 9: you know people around him. You know, I don't need
Speaker 9: a great QB. I've done a way with par qbs.
Speaker 9: You know, just a QB who loves a game like
Speaker 9: I do. And a great defense. I think defense won championships.
Speaker 3: Hmm, Miana.
Speaker 4: First of all, that look, I think it's a throwback
Speaker 4: Astro's cap, but it kind of looks like a cowboy.
Speaker 6: That's what I thought. He was wearing a cowboys hat
Speaker 6: for a second, and almost I guess, but yeah, can you.
Speaker 3: Try to parse those thoughts at all, what does he
Speaker 3: really saying?
Speaker 6: Uh, I heard him say I want not Kyler Murray,
Speaker 6: and then I want not Matt Schaubs slash all of
Speaker 6: the random Texans I played with over the years. I mean,
Speaker 6: it's hard not to hear a little bit of subtweeting
Speaker 6: in that. Certainly not subtweeting when it comes to management,
Speaker 6: which I think everyone on Earth would agree. He's right
Speaker 6: to say he's been under unstable management. What he described
Speaker 6: I thought was pretty realistic though, right He wasn't saying
Speaker 6: I want to play for a super Bowl team. I
Speaker 6: want to play with Patrick Mahomes. Like the thing is
Speaker 6: he laid out in terms of stability, defense, solid quarterback,
Speaker 6: there's a lot of teams that fit that profile. Are
Speaker 6: there a lot of teams that fit that profile that
Speaker 6: have the cap space to accommodate DeAndre Hopkins. No, And
Speaker 6: I think that's what's holding this up.
Speaker 5: I think one of the reasons that he's still sitting
Speaker 5: where he is because there is a thirty one million
Speaker 5: dead cap hit over the next two years for the Cardinals.
Speaker 5: So it's not like the most tradable person. They're in
Speaker 5: a they're in a full full of rebuild though, and
Speaker 5: it's like, I'm convinced, remain more and more convinced that
Speaker 5: when everything, when we reach the end of this journey,
Speaker 5: that Kyler Murray will not be the quarterback of this
Speaker 5: team a year from now. I just I just feel
Speaker 5: like that will not be the case. And like, so
Speaker 5: if you're DeAndre Hopkins at his age, like there's got
Speaker 5: to be a short list of teams that say, I
Speaker 5: want I want to put myself in the best position
Speaker 5: to not be in a rebuild, but be with a
Speaker 5: team that has all those things he mentioned. It's like,
Speaker 5: why not move him? Why is he on this roster
Speaker 5: right now?
Speaker 4: Yeah, based on what we've heard and kind of the
Speaker 4: rumors out there. The line here, and thank you to
Speaker 4: Eric behind the Glass for transcribing this. I want a
Speaker 4: QB who loves the game, a QB who you know,
Speaker 4: brings everybody on board with him and pushes not just himself,
Speaker 4: but you know people around him. You know, I don't
Speaker 4: need a great QB. And like, it's funny just because
Speaker 4: I think the a lot of people say, oh, Kyler
Speaker 4: Murray is a great QB, but then there's all this
Speaker 4: other stuff.
Speaker 3: Does feel a little subtweetye I agree he did.
Speaker 2: He did follow it up because I think he realized
Speaker 2: how it sounded, and he's like, I believe Kyler loves
Speaker 2: the game and they have a nice new GM, but
Speaker 2: you know, Kyler is not going to be around. And
Speaker 2: Cole McCoy loves the game too, but you know, you know,
Speaker 2: you know, and he started like bad, but he he
Speaker 2: you can you can tell what he's what he wants.
Speaker 2: Let's let's get him, Let's get him a new home.
Speaker 3: You know what I want. I want to talk Dalton scales.
Speaker 3: Let's take a break, Let's go and do it.
Speaker 2: Andy Dalton.
Speaker 1: This is the prime meridian of NFL quarterbacks. He represents
Speaker 1: quarterback purgatory. If you are ranked below Andy Dalton, your
Speaker 1: franchise needs a quarterback. If you're ranked above Andy Dalton,
Speaker 1: you're in ship shape. Everything's figured out. You're good to go.
Speaker 2: Ah.
Speaker 4: Yes, you know, I thought Chris wherever he is, would
Speaker 4: get a kick out of his fine words over the
Speaker 4: bed of Sam Spence. The NFL films this is Dalton
Speaker 4: Scale twenty twenty three, and West said it perfectly.
Speaker 3: We are looking for.
Speaker 4: Well, me know, we're not looking for Andy Dalton anymore.
Speaker 4: Andy Dalton is the patron saint.
Speaker 3: Of the Dalton scale.
Speaker 4: He's still in the league, of course, but now is
Speaker 4: very entrenched as a backup. And for so many years
Speaker 4: Dalton really did, as Chris explained, represent that guy that
Speaker 4: is the divide point, the prime meridian. And it is
Speaker 4: that time of year to go through the quarterbacks of
Speaker 4: our league and figure out who that guy is or
Speaker 4: who or maybe there isn't one.
Speaker 3: It's time.
Speaker 6: Are you making me go first?
Speaker 3: Well, no, I just want to.
Speaker 6: I'm ready. No.
Speaker 4: Yeah, I also know that you are feeling pressure based
Speaker 4: on what we talked about at the top of the show,
Speaker 4: So we're just here to set you at ease.
Speaker 6: Okay, I'll come down, I will do takes. I will
Speaker 6: make some people mad. I'm ready for this.
Speaker 2: It is a strange concept. It famously took Dan I
Speaker 2: think five episodes to really wrap what the Dalton scale was.
Speaker 2: And one of the things that's beautiful about it and
Speaker 2: Chris that definition he just gave to me is what
Speaker 2: I always worked off of. But within that there's like
Speaker 2: flexibility And one thing I was thinking as I'm making
Speaker 2: the list of the thing now, is the Dalton Today's
Speaker 2: Dalton line? If it's if there's a primary is better
Speaker 2: than yesterday's Dalton scale, Like, it's not just hey, who's
Speaker 2: the sixteenth best quarterback, it's how the league is looking.
Speaker 2: And I think there's just more good quarterbacks now. So
Speaker 2: the bar to me is a little higher for where
Speaker 2: the Dalton scale is because you can find and we'll
Speaker 2: talk about it. I'm you can find some pretty capable
Speaker 2: guys that to me are below the Dalton scale because
Speaker 2: the cost the cost of the brick has changed, it's
Speaker 2: gone up.
Speaker 6: So I thought the same thing when I was ranking quarterbacks,
Speaker 6: and I actually think some of it is the caliber
Speaker 6: of quarterback play guys coming up. But I think a
Speaker 6: big reason for this, and something that's going to really
Speaker 6: influence which name I end up picking, is that coordinators
Speaker 6: are better than they were five ten years ago. Some
Speaker 6: of this is the pervasion of the Kyle Shanahan Sean
Speaker 6: McVay wide zone quarterback bumper bowling offense, which I think
Speaker 6: is really makes it harder to rank quarterbacks in a vacuum.
Speaker 6: But when I looked at a lot of the guys
Speaker 6: in the middle, I found that a lot of them
Speaker 6: were quarterbacks that have thrived in those systems. With good
Speaker 6: play callers, with good protection, and as you look around
Speaker 6: the NFL, there's just fewer terrible situations for quarterbacks, for
Speaker 6: average quarterbacks.
Speaker 4: And that's good for us as fans, because you know,
Speaker 4: bad quarterback play with terrible game plan makes for.
Speaker 3: Poor viewing experience.
Speaker 4: So we're going in the right direction here, and maybe
Speaker 4: a good way to get into it is just a
Speaker 4: couple of guardrails here. First of all, who's checked out
Speaker 4: of this conversation. Tom Brady's officially checked out of the conversation.
Speaker 4: We think by the way, he's kind of in the
Speaker 4: ownership group of the Raiders now. And again a few
Speaker 4: weeks back, I pointed out that they don't really have
Speaker 4: a backup quarterback and their new quarterbacks hurt all the time,
Speaker 4: just saying and Matt Ryan, who is not officially retired
Speaker 4: because he's got to make that money, still on his contract,
Speaker 4: but he's now in the booth for CBS and hopefully
Speaker 4: bringing that fiery demeanor and just ripping.
Speaker 3: People to shreds on the air. I'm just still holding
Speaker 3: out hope for that.
Speaker 2: Ryan.
Speaker 4: Last year when we did this exercise, I thought that
Speaker 4: heat for using my memories of last year, I had
Speaker 4: Ryan as kind of that guy to keep an eye on,
Speaker 4: but kind of to mean his point a little bit
Speaker 4: like this stuff when you are in that middle group
Speaker 4: and you're a guy that's right on the edge, or
Speaker 4: you're a veteran that's faded a little bit, or a
Speaker 4: player that's not overly talented, and then the scheme goes
Speaker 4: to hell and maybe some injuries. Even a guy that
Speaker 4: on paper looked like it made sense, all of a
Speaker 4: sudden he's performing at one of the worst levels in
Speaker 4: the league. So it is all kind of connected.
Speaker 2: Right, I look at like veterans. I mean, I don't
Speaker 2: know other people that we're going to get rid of.
Speaker 2: I mean, I guess this is obvious. We've done this
Speaker 2: every year. Is like the top of the league. So
Speaker 2: we don't need to talk like Mahomes, Herbert, Allen, Burrow,
Speaker 2: Lamar Hurtz, Lawrence Stop. If you get to anyone, we
Speaker 2: would even need to discuss Rogers Dak Maybe that was
Speaker 2: my list. Everybody discussion, Okay, is that it? That's it?
Speaker 2: In order to.
Speaker 5: Play us to fall off a cliff after said Dalton,
Speaker 5: you know, participant, it's got to be like after that
Speaker 5: list with Dalton in West's mind, like everything after was
Speaker 5: like you're in a hot mess of a situation under
Speaker 5: center for that organization. So it's like it falls off
Speaker 5: a lot later to me than it used to do
Speaker 5: in the past. To your point about quarterback played just
Speaker 5: being better right now.
Speaker 4: So after you get through those nine names Mahomes, Hurts,
Speaker 4: Alan Burrow, Herbert Rogers, Prescott, Jackson, Lawrence, I'll just get
Speaker 4: things going here with the guys that were right below
Speaker 4: there for me, and uh, and see where you guys
Speaker 4: come down out. So I got Stafford this time last
Speaker 4: year was coming off you know, super Bowl win and
Speaker 4: played out of his mind in the playoffs.
Speaker 3: But now we're another.
Speaker 4: Year later, an injury rec season, and uh, you know
Speaker 4: he's he has a good play caller and a potential
Speaker 4: ounce back team or a team that people are sleeping
Speaker 4: on a little bit we talked about last week, but
Speaker 4: I think it's fair to question where he stands at
Speaker 4: this point. And then I have cousins as well, who's
Speaker 4: always a tough one to figure out in this exercise.
Speaker 4: Men as a guy that statistically, even though he came
Speaker 4: down a little bit last year, is yeah, he's a
Speaker 4: very steady, productive, productive quarterback. But is he a guy
Speaker 4: where you lock him in and say, oh, we don't
Speaker 4: have to think about quarterback for the.
Speaker 3: Next five years.
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Speaker 6: I have him above probably in that just above tier.
Speaker 6: He had an interesting year last year because for a
Speaker 6: long time, Kirk Cousins was like a statistical darling who
Speaker 6: you didn't trust in to like make plays, you know,
Speaker 6: like he would always finish here at the top in
Speaker 6: all the advanced metrics QBR, CPOE, et cetera. And then
Speaker 6: last year he, like you said, his stats fell off,
Speaker 6: But weirdly I thought he had. He shown in big
Speaker 6: games a bit more and was more aggressive, especially once
Speaker 6: they traded for TG. So I think he's kind of
Speaker 6: just in that nine to twelve or thirteen range and
Speaker 6: we'll probably stay there.
Speaker 2: I'd go much lower for both of them. Actually, those
Speaker 2: two are two of the toughest ones to me, because
Speaker 2: I thought about this exercise. Matt Ryan is a little
Speaker 2: similar to where Matthew Stafford. I know we haven't seen
Speaker 2: the decline out of Matthew Stafford, but when I thought
Speaker 2: about it, like, do you need a new franchise quarterback?
Speaker 2: Have you had Matthew Stafford? I think that's another I
Speaker 2: feel like that's an open question where he's if he's
Speaker 2: above the line, like he's just over it. I feel
Speaker 2: like he's not the Dalton guy because like Matt Ryan
Speaker 2: wouldn't have been because if it falls out, he's just
Speaker 2: he's not gonna he's gonna like the floor is gonna
Speaker 2: fall out and he's gonna be way below the line.
Speaker 2: But those were two guys I had much lower, like
Speaker 2: five six guy names lower, and I actually think Cousins
Speaker 2: because I at least eye test wise and the PFF
Speaker 2: grades are kind of like that too. And I know
Speaker 2: he was a little more aggressive, but I felt like
Speaker 2: he could you could start to see the decline and
Speaker 2: Cousins a year ago. And to me, he's always been
Speaker 2: like the rich man's Andy Dalton and wouldn't settling into
Speaker 2: being like the new Andy Dalton totally makes sense for
Speaker 2: his mid thirties. So to me, he is one of
Speaker 2: the strongest candidates to be that line. But I'm projecting
Speaker 2: a little bit that he's that he's going to continue
Speaker 2: declining into just a total Cousins like throwing the football
Speaker 2: on the gender reveal like portion of his career.
Speaker 5: I mean, I think it matters where the team sees
Speaker 5: that quarterback two in real life, and I think the
Speaker 5: Vikings are ready to move on after this season. I
Speaker 5: feel like Kirk Cousins, his name has come up in
Speaker 5: this conversation consistently every year, because there's got to be
Speaker 5: something about the experience of that quarterback, Like there was
Speaker 5: an element to Andy Dalton where it's like that twenty
Speaker 5: fifteen season, he had a couple of really wonderful stretches
Speaker 5: of play, but who actually believed that the destiny of
Speaker 5: the Bengals was gonna be anything other than a glass
Speaker 5: of milk with Andy Dalton once you got to January.
Speaker 5: And that's sort of just how I've always felt about
Speaker 5: Kirk Cousins. So for me, the exercise is like I
Speaker 5: can't get on board with Matthew Stafford just because he's
Speaker 5: coming off a weird year, but he just won a
Speaker 5: super Bowl. It's like, this quarterback should not ever win
Speaker 5: a Super Bowl for you.
Speaker 4: I just want to the Dalton heads out there. I
Speaker 4: wish he wouldn't have broken his thumb in Week fifteen.
Speaker 4: I would have liked to see Dalton when he was
Speaker 4: He was on a heater that season with a really
Speaker 4: good offense, around him. I would would have liked to
Speaker 4: see what would have happened, even if it's more than
Speaker 4: likely it wouldn't have gotten to the super Bowl or
Speaker 4: anything like that. It's just a bummer for the Dalton
Speaker 4: heads out there that he never actually at full got
Speaker 4: that chance.
Speaker 6: Can I throw out a maybe a hot takey prediction.
Speaker 6: I think Kirk Cousins is gonna be the Minnesota Vikings
Speaker 6: quarterback next year. The more I think about it, Greg,
Speaker 6: you might be right in a vacuum, but I think
Speaker 6: he's in a really good situation offensively now with a
Speaker 6: very good group of skill players. I wouldn't be surprised
Speaker 6: if he plays I used too well for them to
Speaker 6: draft one of the fun young quarterbacks, and that there
Speaker 6: won't be many options, And this is kind of reflected
Speaker 6: in our exercise. I don't think there's going to be
Speaker 6: a lot of quarterbacks out there for Minnesota to upgrade
Speaker 6: over Kirk Cousins.
Speaker 3: Right.
Speaker 6: Vikings fans probably don't like hearing any of this, by
Speaker 6: the way, because I think they're already ready to move on.
Speaker 2: Right. That's the thing is like all the fans kind
Speaker 2: of want to move on. Everyone wants. But that's why
Speaker 2: he is to me, very close to that middle, because
Speaker 2: if you're above the kirk Cousins line, I feel like
Speaker 2: you don't need a Kirk you don't need a franchise quarterback,
Speaker 2: and if you're below you, you probably do. So I
Speaker 2: and just their vibes, they feel like they'd be similar
Speaker 2: hangs at parties and Kirk Cousins along Mark throw something out.
Speaker 5: The name that just comes to mind over and over.
Speaker 5: And I felt this way a year ago, and I
Speaker 5: think we're seeing the organization obviously feeling the same way.
Speaker 5: I love the toughness of this player and I enjoy
Speaker 5: watching him. It's Ryan Tannehill to me because I just
Speaker 5: feel like he's just not gonna fully get you there.
Speaker 5: I think the Titans that they drafted his success are
Speaker 5: already and they've made a statement about where they are
Speaker 5: with him. And so I felt strongly about Tannehill a
Speaker 5: year ago and I still do, although I find it
Speaker 5: more fun to watch than I ever found Andy Dalton
Speaker 5: to watch.
Speaker 4: Yeah, we kind of were bumping up against Tannehill for
Speaker 4: a couple of years in this exercise now, and we
Speaker 4: even flirted with the idea of the Tanna scale, which
Speaker 4: is pretty good pretty good branding. But for me, this
Speaker 4: was the first time doing this exercise where I thought
Speaker 4: he fell fairly comfortably beneath the Dalton line. Not that
Speaker 4: I don't think that he's a guy that can have
Speaker 4: a productive season ahead of him. I think he could
Speaker 4: even surprise people because people are solo on Tennessee at
Speaker 4: this point if he could stay healthy. But in terms
Speaker 4: of what this exercise is, I think he's now on
Speaker 4: the other end of things. He's getting older. Does anybody
Speaker 4: have him above the Dalton line in their world?
Speaker 6: I have one quarterback of above the quarterback that I
Speaker 6: decided was the midpoint, but they're very close and have
Speaker 6: a lot of similarities.
Speaker 2: Same I had them one above the line. Maybe it's
Speaker 2: a bias. I always thought Tannehill was better than his
Speaker 2: career had gone. He had those years where you know,
Speaker 2: statistically he was a top five quarterback. I didn't think
Speaker 2: he was a top five quarterback, but it showed what
Speaker 2: he could do. And he's played behind the worst offense,
Speaker 2: literally the worst offensive line in the NFL I think
Speaker 2: in aggregate over the last two years, and his number
Speaker 2: two receiver right now is Nick Westbrook. Akina, who who
Speaker 2: was like non tendered and was given a one million
Speaker 2: dollar contract, Like pretty strong argument that they have the
Speaker 2: worst collection of receivers and offensive line in the league,
Speaker 2: and he hasn't looked like total garbage, which is kind
Speaker 2: of like I still, if I'm going into this season,
Speaker 2: if you put him in Minnesota, like I think him
Speaker 2: and Kirk Couzin, they're very different and it maybe doesn't
Speaker 2: make sense in that system, but I think they're very
Speaker 2: similar in terms of like the quality of the quarterback
Speaker 2: that they still are.
Speaker 6: Guys.
Speaker 4: I had two that I really struggled with, and I'll
Speaker 4: throw out one and I don't want to step on
Speaker 4: Mina's because I kind of want her to roll it out.
Speaker 3: But maybe I don't think I will hear Tua.
Speaker 2: Oh, that is disrespectful.
Speaker 4: I don't know what to do with Tua because we
Speaker 4: know obviously that he played at a very high level
Speaker 4: for large portions of last season. He also, you know,
Speaker 4: has shown us he can go into funks as well,
Speaker 4: and then of course the durability, which has to be
Speaker 4: a factor when you're talking about franchise quarterbacks and building around.
Speaker 4: So for that reason, he's actually just beneath the line
Speaker 4: for me.
Speaker 2: Whoa oh, he's the first guy you are gonna get.
Speaker 2: You're gonna make the Dolphins fans angry. That me too.
Speaker 4: It's like, it's not like a Jets Dolphins certainly. It's like,
Speaker 4: I don't like somebody make the case why he strongly
Speaker 4: should be above the line based on what he's accomplished
Speaker 4: in the league to this point and the very real
Speaker 4: injury concerns.
Speaker 5: I think metrics heads would want to fight you on
Speaker 5: this one because he had an extremely clean season and
Speaker 5: that took a big step forward. But I'm so with
Speaker 5: you again. For me, it's more just the feel of it,
Speaker 5: and this is and it's coming from ownership.
Speaker 2: I get it.
Speaker 5: But they chased after Tom Brady, they chased after Deshaun Watson.
Speaker 5: I mean, there were just hints that were never really
Speaker 5: fully satisfied. Now I think Mike McDaniel really seems to
Speaker 5: like Tuam based on what he says. But I struggled
Speaker 5: with where to put him. But I'd put him above
Speaker 5: the Dalton line with a big weight.
Speaker 7: And see.
Speaker 6: Yeah, I did exercise on my podcast recently where I
Speaker 6: was trying to pick the most important players non quarterbacks
Speaker 6: on every team for the season and for the Dolphins.
Speaker 6: I ended up with toront Armstead, and when I was
Speaker 6: grabbing his splits on and off, it's actually quite remarkable.
Speaker 6: They almost perfectly hoe inside with the games that Tua
Speaker 6: did not play. So Dolphins fans are probably screaming, well,
Speaker 6: look how much the offense dropped off with Teddy Groppolo,
Speaker 6: and well, Teddy Groppolo, oh my god, Teddy Bridgewater and
Speaker 6: Skylar Thompson, which was player you know, the Teddy never played.
Speaker 6: I don't think he played a complete game for them.
Speaker 6: But they also didn't have their left tackle, so it's
Speaker 6: a very noisy sample set skit uh and sample size.
Speaker 6: And when Tua played without Armstead, he suffered as well.
Speaker 6: In fact, the game he got hurt was the one
Speaker 6: where Armstead got hurt against Houston. Tua sacked a bunch
Speaker 6: And I think that's kind of what makes it harder
Speaker 6: for me to rank him, just because last year I
Speaker 6: thought he was excellent. When he played previous few years,
Speaker 6: his situation was so awful, So I feel like I
Speaker 6: don't have a great feel for who he is as
Speaker 6: a quarterback. And when we look at I think we're
Speaker 6: all talking about the same kind of guy, which I
Speaker 6: keep going. It's these Shanahan quarterbacks, right, it's the same guys.
Speaker 6: The other ones, I think I have a better sense
Speaker 6: of who they are, and with Tua, I feel like
Speaker 6: I still don't know, but he flashed enough upside last
Speaker 6: year for me to have him above some of the
Speaker 6: other names.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I just think he's better than any of those
Speaker 2: guys have ever been his level that he played at
Speaker 2: last year. The timing, the accuracy, like the numbers were bananas,
Speaker 2: but the eye test was good too. I know he
Speaker 2: doesn't like have the big arm, but he was like
Speaker 2: exceptional and that's why I feel like I would only
Speaker 2: put him at the bottom of my top ten or
Speaker 2: maybe like eleven or whatever. But he's comfortably way over
Speaker 2: the line. And the injuries are a problem. But I
Speaker 2: don't think you need to look for a franchise quarterback
Speaker 2: if you got him, because like that production and that
Speaker 2: like people aren't giving him, I think enough credit. They're
Speaker 2: giving a little too much of the scheme people weren't
Speaker 2: putting up like Jimmy G's never had a twelve game
Speaker 2: stretch or whatever it was for Tua last year, like
Speaker 2: none of those quarterbacks have. Derek Carrs never had it
Speaker 2: like that. That was exceptional to me, and so maybe
Speaker 2: it's not your breeze. But he if he stays healthy,
Speaker 2: he's way over the line.
Speaker 3: Three. Well, yeah, I agree.
Speaker 4: If he stays healthy, I guess I can't get out.
Speaker 4: I can't get over how precarious his situation is in
Speaker 4: that department, because if he was a guy you could
Speaker 4: lock in for sixteen seventeen starts, this wouldn't be the case.
Speaker 3: But I hear what you guys are s did he.
Speaker 2: Did start twenty six games over the last two years.
Speaker 2: It's not like an outrageously low number, just.
Speaker 4: Saying okay, okay, it's a slice in with a butter knife,
Speaker 4: but that is okay, that's fair, that's facts.
Speaker 3: Who wants to throw another player out something?
Speaker 4: Who else struggled with? Somebody I struggled with Tua. Who's
Speaker 4: struggling out there?
Speaker 7: I want to hear one of Mina's Uh.
Speaker 6: Well I did. The one who I ended up on
Speaker 6: was Jimmy Garoppolo because I think right now in twenty
Speaker 6: twenty three, the prime Meridian NFL quarterback is one who
Speaker 6: you can not only win with, but you can win
Speaker 6: a lot of games with. Obviously, Garoppolo, But I don't
Speaker 6: think anyone would say you win because of I think
Speaker 6: it has to be one of these Shanahan guys, because
Speaker 6: I think they're the ones we keep clustering in this mix.
Speaker 6: And Groppolo is a guy not only like his numbers
Speaker 6: are insane, not just wins. Like if you look at
Speaker 6: pretty much everything over the last few years, all of
Speaker 6: the advanced stats, he always ranks pretty high, except for
Speaker 6: pushing the ball downfield, extending plays, things quarterbacks do outside
Speaker 6: of the structure of the offense. Maybe he'll prove me
Speaker 6: wrong in you know, playing behind a bad offensive line
Speaker 6: this year in Las Vegas. But I feel like I've
Speaker 6: seen enough to know where his strengths, what a ceiling is,
Speaker 6: what the limitations are. He's a quarterback where I think
Speaker 6: if you have him, you're comfortable with him. But if
Speaker 6: you have the quarterbacks to who I would rank below him,
Speaker 6: you're probably not comfortab with your situation.
Speaker 2: It's a good it's a good argument if it's Jimmy
Speaker 2: g and I don't know where you have him ranked.
Speaker 2: A little bit I have them below the line, then
Speaker 2: I feel like the line is quite low, and that's
Speaker 2: that's sort of why I started talking about to me
Speaker 2: the Dalton scales at a higher level. Now, it's like,
Speaker 2: I feel like you can do better than Jimmy G.
Speaker 2: Even for me, if it's more in the Cousins Tannehill tier,
Speaker 2: You're already potentially down to like the eighteenth, nineteenth best
Speaker 2: quarterback in the league. And Jimmy G's just sitting out there.
Speaker 2: I feel like he's blah and he's an injury risk,
Speaker 2: so that puts him under the line.
Speaker 4: I'm curious, like, how many like Mark, how many guys
Speaker 4: do you have as you're above the line. I'm getting
Speaker 4: the feeling that I have maybe a little stricter parameters
Speaker 4: because I only have twelve that are truly guys that
Speaker 4: don't even think about it. You're set there, go find
Speaker 4: other ways to improve your roster.
Speaker 3: Where are you at?
Speaker 5: I have more than I have more than that on
Speaker 5: above the line. I mean, for me, the line is
Speaker 5: a little hazy because I feel like a year ago
Speaker 5: I would have every year well, no, a year ago,
Speaker 5: like I would have also maybe banged the table for
Speaker 5: like Carson Wentz, but he's not a starter right now.
Speaker 5: There's these guys that like have floated out of starting material,
Speaker 5: someone like Jared Goff, who had a really one of
Speaker 5: his best seasons, still stands out as a Dalton type
Speaker 5: guy for me. One other person I mentioned who's sort
Speaker 5: of in that world below him. I'm not sure what
Speaker 5: you have, but he's a figure of mystery after last
Speaker 5: year is Mac Jones. He just feels to me like
Speaker 5: middle of the pack type of guy who does not
Speaker 5: have like the complete and total support of his head coach.
Speaker 4: To begin with, wait, you you kind of artfully dodged
Speaker 4: my question like a politician, like is Jared Goff above
Speaker 4: your line?
Speaker 6: Like?
Speaker 3: How many people are above your line? Mark?
Speaker 2: Well, my guy? Oh the truth?
Speaker 5: My guy is Ryan Tannehill. So I have him around
Speaker 5: like around fifteenth or sixteenth?
Speaker 2: Do you have golf below or above?
Speaker 7: Below?
Speaker 5: But I would rather have Ryan Tannehill, But I just don't.
Speaker 5: I'd come away a little mystified by Jared Goff last year,
Speaker 5: like is that what's gonna happen with him year after year?
Speaker 7: If so, he's above, but I just don't trust it entirely.
Speaker 3: I got him below.
Speaker 4: Hey, For the two Seahawks fans on this podcast, are
Speaker 4: you gino above?
Speaker 3: For both of them?
Speaker 6: Comfortably above?
Speaker 2: Greg I don't want to blow up your spot here,
Speaker 2: but you were doing some exercise I don't know if
Speaker 2: it's for your podcast where you were ranking quarterbacks for
Speaker 2: the next three years. I don't know if that's out there.
Speaker 2: But you had Gino quite high, even more than I
Speaker 2: would be comfortable with, which I loved, which I absolutely loved.
Speaker 2: Like in the top twelve or thirteen, it stuck out.
Speaker 2: I remember he was ahead of Watson, who we haven't mentioned. Yeah,
Speaker 2: Watson's a weird one. I think you have to put
Speaker 2: him over the line for now, like I'm sort of
Speaker 2: expecting that he'll come back to a.
Speaker 4: Above average cut point for the record, like he's well
Speaker 4: for me. And it was a wait and see aspect
Speaker 4: to it. But and obviously it's a complicated situation.
Speaker 2: The other Fields was the other one, and I love
Speaker 2: and I love that you have Gino there, and I
Speaker 2: would I have Gino close to there too, that he's
Speaker 2: above the line.
Speaker 6: You have Fields above Gino.
Speaker 2: They're close. I think I would take Gina.
Speaker 6: I think it would take I knew you pressed you'd
Speaker 6: you flip your stance. Let me ask you guys, this,
Speaker 6: what about Gino versus Kyler Murray?
Speaker 4: I got Gino comfortably ahead of Kyler. I don't really
Speaker 4: Kyler's similar to me. I struggled justin Fields too.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I have him.
Speaker 4: I feel a little weird about that, you know what. Shoot,
Speaker 4: I'm gonna put Fields above. I'm gonna do a little
Speaker 4: pruning here, so I'm gonna put him. So I got thirteen,
Speaker 4: So I have him just above. But then I have
Speaker 4: Kyler behind Tua's right below the line. Then Gino, car
Speaker 4: Tannehill than Kyler before Jimmy g And I just don't
Speaker 4: know what to do with Kyler right now.
Speaker 5: Yeah, I think, like Kyl the athletic gifts are extremely
Speaker 5: high on the list in general, But the experience of
Speaker 5: Kyler Murray over the last like two seasons, he's above
Speaker 5: the line for me. But I'm not sure that an
Speaker 5: organization like the Cardinals themselves are completely bought in on
Speaker 5: the on the whole thing. I mean, there's just a
Speaker 5: lot of evidence that it's a tough quarterback to to
Speaker 5: center your team around.
Speaker 2: I'm buying the stock if people are selling on Kyler
Speaker 2: at this point, he's still twenty five years old. Like
Speaker 2: I do think that his next team might get the
Speaker 2: benefit of his maturity increasing.
Speaker 4: And but if we're talking about his next team, then
Speaker 4: he's below the line, right.
Speaker 2: If they want to get rid of him, I guess.
Speaker 2: But for me he would he would be above it.
Speaker 2: I would have him just ahead of Gino, But I guess.
Speaker 2: I mean, I'm curious how you see Geno sort of
Speaker 2: in the next three years, like him compared to a
Speaker 2: cousin's type.
Speaker 6: What what's tricky about Gino is it's a one year
Speaker 6: sample size. I feel like I've said sample size like
Speaker 6: eight times. But you know, people would argue, well, he
Speaker 6: was only good for one year, But unlike a lot
Speaker 6: of one hit wonder quarterbacks, he didn't play. That's what
Speaker 6: makes it so tricky, is like it legitimately did not
Speaker 6: get a shot to do what he did last year
Speaker 6: for a very long time in the NFL. So in
Speaker 6: some ways that makes me probably higher on him. Maybe
Speaker 6: I sound like a homer, but it does make me
Speaker 6: higher on him than if he had been playing continuously
Speaker 6: for seven years and then suddenly had a big breakout season.
Speaker 6: The other thing I like about him is his particular
Speaker 6: skill set. He's accurate, he's good in the pocket, he
Speaker 6: has a nice deep ball. I think he sees the
Speaker 6: field well is those are traits, especially the play in
Speaker 6: the clean pocket, that do tend to continue year after year.
Speaker 6: Again when we think about one hit wonders. So you know,
Speaker 6: for me, he's not the like one of these Shanahan
Speaker 6: guys that you know, Garoppolo is my Dalton pick, where
Speaker 6: I think he is entirely dependent on situation, and I
Speaker 6: think that's why I have him just above in that
Speaker 6: second sort of ten to fourteen group.
Speaker 5: I think like his deep passing was one of the
Speaker 5: stories of the season last year. I mean, he showed
Speaker 5: us that he can do everything, and so I struggled
Speaker 5: with the whole concept of him, like weeks into the season,
Speaker 5: Greg obviously led the charge on that, but by the
Speaker 5: end of the year, it's like, well, yes, I completely
Speaker 5: believe in him as a player, more than I ever
Speaker 5: would have expected to before. This is also a team
Speaker 5: that a parallel universe might have drafted Anthony Richardson, and
Speaker 5: suddenly what they say they believe about Geno and what
Speaker 5: Geno's arc would be over the next year or two
Speaker 5: looks completely different. They just have no other option right now,
Speaker 5: and I think they're pretty happy with him. Carol seems
Speaker 5: to adore them.
Speaker 2: Right, if we were just looking at a contract Dan,
Speaker 2: like the most you know fields is tricky guys on
Speaker 2: their first contracts are weird. Watson is almost in a
Speaker 2: category to itself. But like the most Dalton scale contracts
Speaker 2: out there are Geno, Derek Carr and Golf. Maybe you
Speaker 2: throw Daniel Jones in there too, because it was a
Speaker 2: two year contract. I know he's getting a lot of money,
Speaker 2: but it wasn't.
Speaker 6: Like he's an Interestingly he talked about it.
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, there, but it's not.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 4: That's why there's a little nuance to this, because that
Speaker 4: doesn't mean like where I have him on the list.
Speaker 3: Which is like I don't know, like eighteenth or something.
Speaker 4: I like off in terms of especially what he's done
Speaker 4: in Detroit, and he's filled that niche and allowed them to,
Speaker 4: through solid play, continue to build that roster up rather
Speaker 4: than you know, burn a pick on a QB or
Speaker 4: some type of high priced trade of something something along
Speaker 4: those lines. But at the same time, like if this
Speaker 4: is about finding a franchise quarterback, he's the definition of
Speaker 4: a bridge guy. So he's lower in this exercise.
Speaker 3: To me than he is if I'm actually just ranking
Speaker 3: quarterbacks and terms of talent level and ability, So.
Speaker 2: Is he below the line for everyone? Golf and car
Speaker 2: were the first two names under the line for me,
Speaker 2: and it's not just because of the contract, but I
Speaker 2: feel like if you those are your guys, you're looking
Speaker 2: around for your next guy. And to me, that, by
Speaker 2: Chris's definition, is sort of under the line that I'm
Speaker 2: not gonna feel I don't even care if Derek Carr
Speaker 2: plays well for the Saints this year, I still would
Speaker 2: feel like I'm looking for another guy.
Speaker 6: So the line the Dalton has to be you're you're
Speaker 6: not looking to move on if you have well.
Speaker 2: Basically, if you're looking for a new franchise quarterback, then
Speaker 2: then you're below the line.
Speaker 6: Okay, then then Garoppolo is probably below the line. I
Speaker 6: was thinking more about the level of play.
Speaker 2: See, it is complicated, it's always confusing, tricky.
Speaker 6: GoF is a pretty good because I think the way
Speaker 6: Detroit views him and the way they're acting and the
Speaker 6: way the fan base is reflects exactly what you're describing,
Speaker 6: which is a team divided about whether or not they
Speaker 6: should move on.
Speaker 4: Just for housekeeping here and then I want to tee
Speaker 4: up Mina before we wrap things up on a player
Speaker 4: that we haven't discussed yet. So the first player above
Speaker 4: the line, Mina, you had Jimmy G. But you're gonna
Speaker 4: drop him, So who would be yours?
Speaker 3: Now?
Speaker 2: Jimmy G was your line right right?
Speaker 6: It was my line Tannehill right above him. I'm gonna
Speaker 6: shift it to tanne Okay, Tannehill.
Speaker 4: I have Watson, which is I don't know, a little
Speaker 4: bit of a cop out, but listen, deal with it.
Speaker 3: Mark, you have I had Tannehill too, Tannehill, Greg.
Speaker 2: You're talking about above the line or first.
Speaker 3: Guy above the line before?
Speaker 2: A first guy above the line for me was Tannehill
Speaker 2: as well.
Speaker 5: Interesting, I mean Tannehill also, I believe could actually be
Speaker 5: a great definition of what we're looking for. But Golf
Speaker 5: maybe right below him?
Speaker 3: That's good.
Speaker 4: And then the two first two names below the line.
Speaker 4: For me, it was too and Gino. What was it
Speaker 4: for you guys?
Speaker 3: Ah? That hurts? Sorry?
Speaker 2: Uh mineor golf and Car and that I didn't even
Speaker 2: get to Daniel Jones. It sounds like we all have
Speaker 2: Daniel Jones below the line, which is kind of crazy
Speaker 2: because he just got it.
Speaker 5: I'm with you on Twitter at Car Derek Carr is
Speaker 5: a really attractive Dalton candidate to me, but he's below.
Speaker 7: He's a little bit below the line.
Speaker 6: I'll go Jimmy g right below.
Speaker 4: We did not talk about players without a ton of reps.
Speaker 4: So you know, Brock Purdy obviously, Trey Lance, Desmond Ritter,
Speaker 4: those guys are a little TBA. But Mina, there's one
Speaker 4: player out of Pittsburgh, a first round pick a year ago.
Speaker 4: Mark famously on the show recently said the Steelers are
Speaker 4: potentially dominant force in the NFL in the upcoming season.
Speaker 2: For that to happen, you would think, Famously like, did
Speaker 2: you guys do a segment about that?
Speaker 5: And like, no, I think they when they have a
Speaker 5: bad year, they will still win nine games. That they
Speaker 5: have an interesting young offense.
Speaker 7: I said, they're.
Speaker 5: Gonna win twelve, and if it it comes true, I'll
Speaker 5: talk about it all year.
Speaker 7: Otherwise, no one will remember.
Speaker 4: Kenny Pickett men at times now where like kind of
Speaker 4: projecting ahead what you see in store for his career?
Speaker 4: Where would he fall on an exercise like this, let's
Speaker 4: you know, project three years from now.
Speaker 6: Well, I just watched some Kenny Pickett because I'm talking
Speaker 6: about him a little bit on my pod, and I
Speaker 6: just kind of want because the Steelers offensive numbers in
Speaker 6: the final month and a half of the season were
Speaker 6: actually really good, and I kind of wanted to understand why.
Speaker 6: And my memory of watching him at the end was
Speaker 6: that he looked better than actually I expected pre draft.
Speaker 6: I thought there were things that he flashed that I
Speaker 6: really liked. I thought he was more of a playmaker
Speaker 6: than maybe I would have anticipated. He's he plays surprisingly
Speaker 6: well under pressure. He was attacking downfield more than I
Speaker 6: would have guessed. There were things that I did not like.
Speaker 6: I thought the accuracy was a little bit spotty, especially
Speaker 6: intermediate areas of the field. I thought he still held
Speaker 6: on the football way too long, which was a thing
Speaker 6: he had problems with in college. And some of the
Speaker 6: decision making was a little bit suspect. Part of the
Speaker 6: reason I'm like kind of optimistic about him is the
Speaker 6: things I describe, particularly the holding on football and the
Speaker 6: decision making. I think those are things that he can
Speaker 6: improve upon. It's an incomplete for me. You know, there's
Speaker 6: a lot of young players on that offense, still offensive
Speaker 6: line in flux, with a lot of new starters. Speaking
Speaker 6: of sus An offensive coordinator that I know Pittsburgh fans
Speaker 6: seem to loathe. But you know, I have n't blown
Speaker 6: the line, but with a big caveat that, we don't
Speaker 6: know yet, and I think I'll be ready to make
Speaker 6: a judgment after this season because of some of the improvements.
Speaker 2: He does profile a little bit as a guy who
Speaker 2: could be a candidate for the line. I mean that
Speaker 2: was the whole risk of that entire quarterback class though,
Speaker 2: and why he went where he did was like, maybe
Speaker 2: the ceiling is a Kirk Cousins type career and he'll
Speaker 2: hill and that would be great. He would, you know,
Speaker 2: set up the picket family for generations, the.
Speaker 6: Picket fence you called the picket fence.
Speaker 2: Oh man, But he might not be a top ten quarterback.
Speaker 2: It's harder to be a top ten quarterback right now.
Speaker 3: Well, it's so good picket fence.
Speaker 4: I would say, get the trademark application out for that.
Speaker 4: Just a quick aside here because it just crossed my desk.
Speaker 4: The Washington Commander's trademark application was denied. According to Josh
Speaker 4: Gurban on Twitter, the US Patent and Trademark Office denied
Speaker 4: the application for the name Commanders. The reason for the
Speaker 4: denial was one the existence of a trademark for Commander's
Speaker 4: Classic and two pending applications filed by a man in
Speaker 4: the DC area. The Commander's Classic is the name of
Speaker 4: an annual college football game between Army and Air Force,
Speaker 4: so this is very current or soon to be ex ownership.
Speaker 4: They did not clear the trade mark of the name,
Speaker 4: so they might be changing their name joth Eisman, whether
Speaker 4: you like it or not, buddy, because they don't even
Speaker 4: have a trade bark on it.
Speaker 5: I mean, I recognize they're one of the most incompetent
Speaker 5: organizations around, but how do you how do we even
Speaker 5: get to this point without that having been legally the favorite?
Speaker 2: We got to go back to the team.
Speaker 6: We got back to the team.
Speaker 2: Yes, yes, it's coming back.
Speaker 6: Such a good name.
Speaker 2: Wait, can we I do want to throw out one
Speaker 2: name we haven't even mentioned, because you know, he did
Speaker 2: get like one hundred and forty million dollars guaranteed, and
Speaker 2: his team did trade I think three first round picks
Speaker 2: and two second round picks like Russell Wilson didn't even
Speaker 2: come up as like an option here. I guess we
Speaker 2: all assume he's below the line. But I just wanted
Speaker 2: to enter that for the record.
Speaker 4: What I had a different years, Jimmy g and Daniel
Speaker 4: Jones comfortably below the line.
Speaker 2: I have him below Mac and Pickett because at least
Speaker 2: I think Mac and pick it and I'm not giving
Speaker 2: up on Macki's below the line, but I think he
Speaker 2: has a chance, like at least I think they have
Speaker 2: a better chance to get there below.
Speaker 6: Yeah, he's below, he's near it. So the thing that
Speaker 6: I was ranking quarterbacks for the next three years, I
Speaker 6: had a lot of trouble getting Russell Wilson out of
Speaker 6: my bottom five. And it's it's context doesn't matter, So
Speaker 6: I don't care that Sean Payton is going to probably
Speaker 6: make him look better.
Speaker 4: It's you're you're a good person to ask me, you know,
Speaker 4: as we kind of wrap up this chat, obviously you
Speaker 4: watched him more closely than anyone during his Seahawks run,
Speaker 4: and we all know we don't need to rehash everything
Speaker 4: that went wrong last year in Denver, but it literally
Speaker 4: was everything. Do you get the vibe with a better
Speaker 4: coordinator and you know, a year removed from the wreckage,
Speaker 4: that he could be someone we're talking about at the
Speaker 4: line or closer to it. Next year, or do you
Speaker 4: think come back the year irreversible decline At.
Speaker 6: This point, I mean Sean Payton in his final years
Speaker 6: with the ghost of Drew Brees still called a top
Speaker 6: five offense in the NFL, So I'm not betting against
Speaker 6: that man. I think people also downplayed the number of
Speaker 6: injuries on that Broncos offensive line, Jonton Williams even like
Speaker 6: Tim Patrick. I know that sounds like an excuse, but
Speaker 6: I thought was going to be an important part of
Speaker 6: that offense. So I think they'll be better. But as
Speaker 6: far as Russell Wilson's decline, that's been happening. It was
Speaker 6: happening for a couple of years before the trade, so
Speaker 6: I don't expect any sort of dramatic reversal. I think
Speaker 6: the question is can he just make him look semi competent?
Speaker 2: A nice little roster they got like six receivers deep
Speaker 2: semi competent?
Speaker 3: What did remember what they gave up to get them in.
Speaker 3: Now you have football expert Mina Kaim saying can they
Speaker 3: get him semi competent?
Speaker 6: I think they can.
Speaker 2: Now we've got him buried. We've got him buried below
Speaker 2: Golf and car and Daniel Jones. I mean I did too.
Speaker 6: I'm just I mean, I think they can get out
Speaker 6: of it for this year. You know they it's expensive, But.
Speaker 4: I have him above Jones, Mac Daniel, really, Goff and Baker,
Speaker 4: you go above Golf? Yeah, Gofa again, it's I guess
Speaker 4: I'm looking at it a little differently.
Speaker 3: I like GoF but not in this exercise.
Speaker 2: I feel like, yeah, the Giants fans and are going
Speaker 2: to be second in terms of getting annoyed at this exercise,
Speaker 2: behind the Dolphins fans. So should we are we proposing
Speaker 2: who the scale is? Are we doing? Are we are
Speaker 2: we doing that?
Speaker 4: I mean, I'm not gonna fight it. If it's if
Speaker 4: three out of four have Tannehill and he's pretty close.
Speaker 2: But that's above the line. I thought we're looking for
Speaker 2: the line. You know, there's someone That's the whole thing
Speaker 2: with Dalton was he wasn't one or the other.
Speaker 4: I've always thought, like, you know, as the last couple
Speaker 4: of years and after West, like the line is just
Speaker 4: Andy Dalton.
Speaker 3: I don't know, but I feel.
Speaker 4: Like he was a once one in a million guy,
Speaker 4: and the the best we can do is find someone
Speaker 4: who approximates and gets close to that, but I don't.
Speaker 4: I don't know, Like I think Tannahill is as close
Speaker 4: as as it comes personally. But you guys see us
Speaker 4: a little bit a tick above.
Speaker 6: It's right, it's the Tannehill. For me, you're either climbing
Speaker 6: up or climbing down.
Speaker 7: I like Tannahill is this.
Speaker 5: If tannel Hill and golf could have a baby, that
Speaker 5: would be the perfect like interception point there for me.
Speaker 2: This I disagree. I'm close. Golf has to be part
Speaker 2: of it, and it would be a very you know,
Speaker 2: classically handsome baby, but maybe just but not like great
Speaker 2: vite and Cousins like that's the Tanna scale. They embody
Speaker 2: the spirit. I think this is Cousins' destiny and I think, yeah,
Speaker 2: that's my proposal. It's a Cousin's golf baby.
Speaker 3: Is the time?
Speaker 4: Another earlier in the show, you said that Jimmy g
Speaker 4: and Teddy Bridgewater would.
Speaker 3: Make like a really hot person.
Speaker 2: That fine.
Speaker 3: I bumped up against that a little bit.
Speaker 6: You're fine, it's a little the Teddy bias creeping in.
Speaker 6: I think a little bit.
Speaker 3: All right, unbelievable. I think we've done important work here, Mina.
Speaker 3: You've said it all. Do you have any plugs stage yet.
Speaker 6: This next week actually is when I'm doing the quarterbacks
Speaker 6: on my podcast Menachim Show featuring Lenny So yeah, check
Speaker 6: it out if you don't already.
Speaker 3: And is it you?
Speaker 4: Can you confirm that if people find the Hunting and
Speaker 4: Fishing Show from nineteen ninety two six am, you will
Speaker 4: see a very young Mina chimes in that boat putting
Speaker 4: worms on a hook.
Speaker 6: I'm really not on ESPN that often right now. It's
Speaker 6: the off season, so well, I am on in about
Speaker 6: two hours on NFL Live.
Speaker 2: But do you know how to fish?
Speaker 3: She didn't die it.
Speaker 6: I have been fishing before, hunting, no.
Speaker 7: Catch anything good.
Speaker 6: It was with von Miller and I caught a fish
Speaker 6: and he didn't brag. What a boast?
Speaker 4: Is it?
Speaker 3: Von an outdoorsman, isn't he he is?
Speaker 6: Yeah, he is an outdoorsman. That's not great for the story.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's like the only person ever that's only gone fishing.
Speaker 2: One said it was.
Speaker 3: With Von Miller.
Speaker 6: I have a lot of answers like that.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 4: I was gonna say fishing sucks, but we already have
Speaker 4: enough people mad at us, so we don't need to.
Speaker 3: Yeah, all right, thank you Mina for everything.
Speaker 4: And listeners know that it is a holiday weekend coming
Speaker 4: up Memorial Day, so we will not be taping on Monday,
Speaker 4: but we will be back on Tuesday. So don't worry
Speaker 4: for all the people that need that late May content,
Speaker 4: it is coming your way. Just hold tight and thank
Speaker 4: you again, Mina.
Speaker 3: That's it.
Speaker 4: Dan Hands is signing off for Quiet Storm, the old
Speaker 4: boss Mina Times and yes, the official and outspent for
Speaker 4: the new Prime Meridian kind of this. Maybe Tannehillport or
Speaker 4: maybe Kirk Cousins.
Speaker 11: I don't know.
Speaker 4: One of them until next time.
Speaker 3: He's the cap