WEBVTT - Ché Ahn - Oct 29 - 9:00 am 0:00:00.390 --> 0:00:03.470 Morning coffee, midday coffee, and sometimes night coffee. 0:00:03.630 --> 0:00:05.050 Never for me. I'll be up all night. 0:00:05.110 --> 0:00:07.370 If you draw blood right now, you'll probably get some 0:00:07.430 --> 0:00:11.890 coffee in there. Why hasn't there been that breakthrough in 0:00:11.950 --> 0:00:15.450 our city to experience the fullness, the full measure of 0:00:15.510 --> 0:00:18.310 His glory, the full measure of the manifestation of His Spirit? 0:00:18.750 --> 0:00:21.290 And it's because you feel that there had been certain 0:00:21.350 --> 0:00:24.310 churches and denominations that had quenched the Spirit. 0:00:24.570 --> 0:00:28.110 But she, as an evangelical, said the main reason why 0:00:28.150 --> 0:00:31.140 we know revival is here is because people are getting 0:00:31.180 --> 0:00:37.739 delivered from demons. We are seeing spirits manifest, people screaming, 0:00:38.050 --> 0:00:43.030 people coughing, vomiting, and they're being delivered from all sorts 0:00:43.070 --> 0:00:46.170 of addiction. And I said, that is a sign of revival. 0:00:46.590 --> 0:00:49.910 Hey everyone, welcome to the Honest Podcast. Our main goal 0:00:49.950 --> 0:00:52.970 here is to reach and impact as many people as possible. 0:00:53.090 --> 0:00:57.330 So please like, subscribe, but most importantly, share this with 0:00:57.390 --> 0:01:00.230 as many people as you can who you think it'll encourage. 0:01:00.340 --> 0:01:28.760 We greatly appreciate it. And now onto the show. Coffee cheers, dad. Cheers. 0:01:28.800 --> 0:01:33.119 Gotta have your coffee, midday coffee, morning coffee, midday coffee, 0:01:33.220 --> 0:01:34.310 and sometimes night coffee. 0:01:34.480 --> 0:01:36.310 I never, for me, I'll be up all night. 0:01:36.430 --> 0:01:38.030 I know, but for me, I'm so immune to it 0:01:38.050 --> 0:01:38.910 because I drink it so much. 0:01:38.950 --> 0:01:41.570 Mom can drink coffee and it would just fall fast. 0:01:41.670 --> 0:01:43.010 It's a gift. I think you have that gift. 0:01:43.050 --> 0:01:45.450 Yeah, I do. I wouldn't say I fall fast asleep, 0:01:45.490 --> 0:01:47.510 but it doesn't affect me as much as it used to. 0:01:47.550 --> 0:01:50.650 Cause I feel like I'm, if you draw blood right now, 0:01:50.710 --> 0:01:53.860 you'll probably get some, some coffee in there. Um, Anyway, 0:01:54.080 --> 0:01:57.240 so much we've talked about so far. I've really enjoyed 0:01:57.280 --> 0:02:00.580 our conversations. One of the things that has come up 0:02:00.760 --> 0:02:04.570 just talking with you, especially with what's going on in 0:02:04.610 --> 0:02:08.150 our city, in our nation, our state, in our nation, 0:02:08.810 --> 0:02:12.470 is the phrase spiritual mapping. Now, I want to ask 0:02:12.490 --> 0:02:14.609 you what spiritual mapping is, but I also want to 0:02:14.730 --> 0:02:17.600 ask you where you first started to learn about it. 0:02:17.620 --> 0:02:19.220 Was it Fuller? Because I know you went to Fuller. 0:02:19.260 --> 0:02:20.419 Was that where you learned the term? 0:02:20.850 --> 0:02:23.889 I did learn it from Peter Wagner. But Peter Wagner 0:02:23.910 --> 0:02:27.950 started to teach it in the 90s when he oversaw 0:02:27.990 --> 0:02:32.120 the AD 2000 prayer movement. And this is with Lussan 0:02:32.280 --> 0:02:37.460 mobilizing millions of people to pray for global evangelization, especially 0:02:37.500 --> 0:02:41.400 the 1040 window is the imaginary line, 10 degrees latitude 0:02:41.419 --> 0:02:44.430 to 40 degrees, which most of the unreached people groups 0:02:44.950 --> 0:02:46.109 live there, including. 0:02:45.750 --> 0:02:48.210 The Muslim world. And we're talking about covering the Middle East. 0:02:49.090 --> 0:02:53.180 And so spiritual mapping is basically asking the question, why 0:02:53.250 --> 0:02:57.880 have we not gotten a breakthrough in prayer, either personally 0:02:58.160 --> 0:03:01.640 or when it comes to a region or city or state, 0:03:02.120 --> 0:03:05.180 what is hindering that? And usually when you begin to 0:03:05.240 --> 0:03:08.239 realize that there are really principalities and powers that are 0:03:08.500 --> 0:03:13.480 behind the, because Paul says that, Ephesians 6, 12, we 0:03:13.500 --> 0:03:16.780 don't wrestle against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, 0:03:17.270 --> 0:03:20.210 against spiritual wickedness in the heavenly places, against the world 0:03:20.250 --> 0:03:23.940 forces of this present darkness. So there's a hierarchy. And 0:03:23.980 --> 0:03:27.820 that word principality is actually the word arche for prince. 0:03:28.400 --> 0:03:31.580 It's the same description in John 14 that the prince 0:03:31.639 --> 0:03:34.570 of this world is coming, but he has nothing on me. 0:03:35.290 --> 0:03:38.450 And so it's referring to Satan. And we also know 0:03:38.530 --> 0:03:42.730 in Daniel chapter 10 about the prince of Persia. And 0:03:42.830 --> 0:03:45.570 also the prince of Greece is coming after the prince 0:03:45.590 --> 0:03:48.700 of Persia. In other words, these empires that took over 0:03:49.420 --> 0:03:53.580 after Babylon. And of course, you have the prince of Babylon. 0:03:53.740 --> 0:03:59.490 It's assumed there that that prince empowered Nebuchadnezzar and Babylon 0:03:59.530 --> 0:04:02.880 to take over the then known world, including Israel. And 0:04:02.930 --> 0:04:08.710 they totally destroyed Jerusalem and the temple in 586 BC. 0:04:09.210 --> 0:04:12.869 Then after that came the prince of Persia. And Daniel 0:04:13.110 --> 0:04:18.010 is dealing with that prince in Daniel chapter 10, because 0:04:18.070 --> 0:04:20.680 in Daniel chapter 9, he realizes the 70 years of 0:04:20.740 --> 0:04:24.380 captivity that Jeremiah had prophesied is coming to an end, 0:04:24.800 --> 0:04:27.920 and that Cyrus, the king of Persia, is going to 0:04:27.980 --> 0:04:31.740 release them to come back. We call that the post-exilic 0:04:31.800 --> 0:04:34.800 return of the people of Israel. And at that period, 0:04:34.839 --> 0:04:37.919 they would rebuild the temple that was destroyed by Nebuchadnezzar. 0:04:38.460 --> 0:04:41.440 But he wants to make sure everything is done correctly, 0:04:41.520 --> 0:04:44.940 so he repents on behalf of the people of Israel. 0:04:45.470 --> 0:04:49.390 Now we call this identification repentance. So that's another spiritual 0:04:49.420 --> 0:04:53.219 warfare phraseology that people need to understand. It's like Daniel 0:04:53.260 --> 0:04:57.020 was righteous. He didn't sin himself, but he repented for 0:04:57.060 --> 0:04:59.560 the sins of the people of Israel. 0:04:59.600 --> 0:05:03.250 So it's when you identify with a group of people's sin, 0:05:03.390 --> 0:05:06.609 not your own necessarily, and you repent on their behalf. 0:05:06.730 --> 0:05:07.230 Exactly. 0:05:07.330 --> 0:05:09.710 And why is that so important to repent on behalf 0:05:09.730 --> 0:05:11.790 of someone else if you're not the one who committed 0:05:11.830 --> 0:05:16.340 the sin? Because it's connected to the spiritual climate? Is 0:05:16.360 --> 0:05:18.220 it because, what are the reasons for that? 0:05:18.360 --> 0:05:21.120 Well, the Bible says in 2 Chronicles 7, 14, if 0:05:21.180 --> 0:05:23.270 my people are called by my name, will humble themselves 0:05:23.330 --> 0:05:25.349 and pray and seek my face and turn from their 0:05:25.370 --> 0:05:27.790 wicked ways, then I'll hear from heaven, forgive their sins 0:05:27.870 --> 0:05:31.810 and heal their land. We're after transformation. We're after healing. 0:05:31.550 --> 0:05:32.029 Of the land. 0:05:32.050 --> 0:05:37.040 We're after discipling nations. Psalm 2, 8, ask of me 0:05:37.400 --> 0:05:40.279 and I'll give you the nations as their inheritance. So 0:05:40.300 --> 0:05:42.979 we have learned that the key to seeing God healed 0:05:43.000 --> 0:05:46.039 the land is repentance, based on 2 Chronicles 7, 14, 0:05:46.040 --> 0:05:49.289 if my people go by my name, humble themselves and pray, and. 0:05:49.270 --> 0:05:50.570 Turn from their wicked ways. 0:05:51.210 --> 0:05:53.750 But a lot of times, the people in the land 0:05:53.790 --> 0:05:57.690 were righteous, like Daniel was. So he wasn't repenting on 0:05:57.790 --> 0:06:00.950 his sins, he was identifying with the sins of the people. 0:06:01.550 --> 0:06:05.210 So usually as repenting for your sins and the people's 0:06:05.450 --> 0:06:09.270 other sins, but if you are found righteous, like Abraham 0:06:09.310 --> 0:06:12.440 was and Sodom and Gomorrah. And he appealed that there 0:06:12.460 --> 0:06:16.120 are 50 righteous, will you destroy those? And he said, no, 0:06:16.220 --> 0:06:18.779 I won't. He goes all the way down to 10 righteous. 0:06:19.300 --> 0:06:22.560 And God says, I won't. Unfortunately, there weren't even 10 righteous. 0:06:23.140 --> 0:06:26.420 And we just had one family, Lot's family, that was 0:06:26.480 --> 0:06:30.180 considered righteous. And he tries to rescue them out of 0:06:30.220 --> 0:06:32.220 that situation where they're going to be destroyed. 0:06:32.300 --> 0:06:34.339 Which when you think about it, Lot himself wasn't very 0:06:34.580 --> 0:06:37.070 righteous when he said, hey, I know you want to 0:06:37.110 --> 0:06:38.849 sleep with the angels that have come to my home, 0:06:38.890 --> 0:06:42.450 but take my daughters instead. And side note, if you 0:06:42.490 --> 0:06:43.770 want to read that in the Bible, that he was 0:06:43.790 --> 0:06:47.360 willing to give up his own daughters to prostitution, basically. 0:06:47.460 --> 0:06:50.300 Which shows you that God is really, really tolerant. He 0:06:50.339 --> 0:06:53.700 would even allow that to go that far to show 0:06:54.020 --> 0:06:57.239 mercy and not judge a lot. So you can imagine 0:06:57.279 --> 0:07:00.050 how wicked the rest of the people were. So anyway, 0:07:00.089 --> 0:07:04.500 the point is, is that what turns God's wrath and 0:07:04.580 --> 0:07:08.779 judgment into mercy is repentance. And so what we have 0:07:08.820 --> 0:07:10.680 to do then is say, okay, Lord, what do we 0:07:10.740 --> 0:07:12.920 do to grieve your spirit? What do we do to 0:07:12.980 --> 0:07:17.260 hinder your spirit? Like, for example, one of the major principalities, 0:07:17.360 --> 0:07:21.240 and this is on the book by George Otis Jr., 0:07:21.080 --> 0:07:26.550 The Last of the Giants. It is on macro giants, 0:07:26.960 --> 0:07:31.710 principalities that are global, that's hindering revival. And one of 0:07:31.730 --> 0:07:35.160 the giants is Islam. I mean, think about it, 1.6 0:07:35.160 --> 0:07:39.060 billion Muslims in the world. And they really believe that 0:07:39.700 --> 0:07:43.910 Jesus was just a prophet, that Muhammad is really the Savior. 0:07:44.710 --> 0:07:47.130 And they don't believe that Jesus died for our sins. 0:07:47.670 --> 0:07:50.910 He rose again, that he's the Messiah, the Son of God. 0:07:51.350 --> 0:07:53.910 They just think he's one of many prophets. And so 0:07:53.950 --> 0:07:56.690 either they're correct, and if they're correct, we're all going 0:07:56.710 --> 0:08:00.230 to hell because Jesus is not our Savior. Or if 0:08:00.330 --> 0:08:03.810 we are correct, which I believe we are, they're going 0:08:03.830 --> 0:08:06.390 to hell unless they repent. So what we have to 0:08:06.450 --> 0:08:08.960 do to see their nation saved, we have to identify 0:08:08.980 --> 0:08:11.520 with the sins of the people of Islam and say, God, 0:08:11.580 --> 0:08:18.239 forgive us for our idolatry. An angel of light preached 0:08:18.320 --> 0:08:22.700 a different gospel to Muhammad. And as a result of that, 0:08:22.720 --> 0:08:26.930 you have a whole people group that are absolutely in darkness, 0:08:26.930 --> 0:08:31.270 1.6 billion. So identification and repentance is very important when 0:08:31.310 --> 0:08:34.730 it comes to seeing revival and breakthrough in a given nation. 0:08:35.429 --> 0:08:38.030 And so one of the best examples I can give 0:08:38.050 --> 0:08:42.850 is when we came to California in 1984 and it 0:08:43.110 --> 0:08:46.990 was so hard to plant a charismatic church. We're a 0:08:47.070 --> 0:08:51.630 charismatically inclined evangelical church. I went to Fuller Seminary and 0:08:51.750 --> 0:08:55.210 I agree with like 95% of the doctrine like John 0:08:55.250 --> 0:08:57.829 MacArthur who passed away, we would be on the same page. 0:08:58.510 --> 0:09:01.320 But we also believe in the baptism and the Holy 0:09:01.360 --> 0:09:05.480 Spirit as the empowerment of the Holy Spirit and the 0:09:05.520 --> 0:09:08.520 gifts are for today. It would be of the school 0:09:08.600 --> 0:09:11.940 that everything we agree, Trinity, Jesus died for our sins, 0:09:11.980 --> 0:09:14.700 he's coming back again, all of them, the things he 0:09:14.740 --> 0:09:17.490 would believe, the same thing, but he doesn't believe that 0:09:17.510 --> 0:09:17.970 speaking in. 0:09:17.950 --> 0:09:18.910 Tongues is for today. 0:09:18.950 --> 0:09:19.850 He's a cessationist. 0:09:19.950 --> 0:09:21.030 He's a cessationist. 0:09:21.350 --> 0:09:26.420 And so... Back in 1906, so what we found out, 0:09:26.520 --> 0:09:29.120 why don't we have any charismatic church? I mean, think 0:09:29.179 --> 0:09:33.160 about this. John Wimber planted three vineyard churches in Pasadena. 0:09:33.200 --> 0:09:33.780 They all died. 0:09:34.920 --> 0:09:37.140 Jack Hayford, who had a megachurch in Van Nuys. 0:09:37.400 --> 0:09:38.080 Church on the way. 0:09:38.140 --> 0:09:40.900 Church on the way with 12,000 members, sent his youth 0:09:40.960 --> 0:09:47.270 pastor of 2,000 kids, Ralph Torres, to Pasadena, and it 0:09:47.970 --> 0:09:51.300 never took off. He was very gifted. So there was 0:09:51.370 --> 0:09:54.870 a spiritual hindrance. And so we had to ask ourselves, okay, 0:09:55.309 --> 0:09:57.910 so we began to find several things that the Lord 0:09:57.929 --> 0:09:58.580 began to show us. 0:09:59.460 --> 0:10:02.219 Before you share those things, which is important, I just 0:10:02.260 --> 0:10:06.920 want to have an understanding because we're talking specifically about 0:10:06.960 --> 0:10:11.260 the city of Pasadena, right? Rich history with the Rose Parade, 0:10:11.320 --> 0:10:15.780 the Rose Bowl, little old lady from Pasadena, right? We've 0:10:15.800 --> 0:10:19.689 heard that. So Pasadena is a very, very well-known city 0:10:20.030 --> 0:10:22.970 outside of Los Angeles, but within Los Angeles County. But 0:10:23.230 --> 0:10:26.990 God had called you and mom specifically to Pasadena from 0:10:27.030 --> 0:10:30.330 the East Coast. So we're talking about completely opposite side. 0:10:30.170 --> 0:10:30.630 Of the United States. 0:10:30.650 --> 0:10:31.690 We didn't even know where Pasadena was. 0:10:31.809 --> 0:10:33.710 He calls you and mom, and we talked about this 0:10:33.770 --> 0:10:35.370 in a previous episode, but I just want to have 0:10:35.590 --> 0:10:38.770 an understanding here. He calls you to a place. You 0:10:38.840 --> 0:10:41.420 come here because you have received a dream that there's 0:10:41.440 --> 0:10:43.550 going to be a great revival here. You get here 0:10:43.790 --> 0:10:46.120 and it is completely dead. So that's why you started 0:10:46.140 --> 0:10:48.800 to ask the question, what is the reason for? 0:10:49.240 --> 0:10:53.959 It was a bastion for evangelicalism. In other words, evangelical 0:10:54.000 --> 0:10:58.250 churches flourished. For example, the Nazarene denomination started in Pasadena. 0:10:58.710 --> 0:11:03.150 Pasadena gave us world vision, the top evangelical mission agency, 0:11:03.490 --> 0:11:05.689 gave us focus on the family, which is the top 0:11:05.790 --> 0:11:11.090 evangelical family ministry agency. So it gave us Fuller Seminary, 0:11:11.910 --> 0:11:14.890 the top evangelical seminary that I had the privilege of 0:11:14.950 --> 0:11:17.630 getting both my master's and my doctorate. 0:11:17.650 --> 0:11:18.370 All in Pasadena. 0:11:18.550 --> 0:11:20.290 All in Pasadena. Fuller Seminary. 0:11:20.330 --> 0:11:22.980 Then you have Lake Avenue. And this is a very 0:11:23.040 --> 0:11:29.179 famous church. Again, key evangelical pastors like Ray Ortlund. I 0:11:29.220 --> 0:11:32.220 could give some of the names. They're a legend now 0:11:32.380 --> 0:11:36.610 in evangelical circles. But yet, when you talk about charismatic 0:11:36.670 --> 0:11:40.280 church or Pentecostal church, we've never seen a real breakthrough. 0:11:40.400 --> 0:11:42.280 And so we had to ask the question, why? And 0:11:42.320 --> 0:11:46.380 so as we're reading the book, Azusa Street by Frank Bartiman. Now, 0:11:46.420 --> 0:11:49.160 Frank Bartiman lived in Pasadena. He was one of the 0:11:49.240 --> 0:11:54.150 leaders of the Azusa Street revival with William Seymour. And 0:11:54.370 --> 0:11:57.829 he was an intercessor and a tremendous evangelist. And he 0:11:57.850 --> 0:12:00.130 was spreading that revival, but he wanted to spread it 0:12:00.150 --> 0:12:03.660 to Pasadena first. And what happened was the founder of 0:12:03.700 --> 0:12:09.760 the Nazarene denomination, Phineas Brizzi, called Azusa Street a counterfeit revival. 0:12:10.090 --> 0:12:13.750 It was a cessationist before it even became vogue. And 0:12:13.790 --> 0:12:17.010 he said it was a counterfeit revival that speaking in 0:12:17.030 --> 0:12:20.210 tongues is not for today. And what's going on there 0:12:20.710 --> 0:12:22.190 is just fanaticism. 0:12:22.450 --> 0:12:24.010 It's the flesh. It's not of God. 0:12:24.690 --> 0:12:28.010 And by making that pronouncement, I believe he grieved the 0:12:28.050 --> 0:12:32.329 Holy Spirit from coming into Pasadena because he was a gatekeeper. 0:12:32.390 --> 0:12:35.969 He was an apostle here in Pasadena. In fact, when 0:12:36.010 --> 0:12:39.650 Frank Barman wanted to bring the revival to Pasadena, Phineas 0:12:39.690 --> 0:12:42.990 Brisey confronted him and said, basically, we're not going to 0:12:43.010 --> 0:12:45.770 bring this revival over my dead body. This is a 0:12:46.170 --> 0:12:49.729 heretical movement. And so what happened was that from that 0:12:49.790 --> 0:12:52.170 point on, the Holy Spirit fell in other parts of 0:12:52.220 --> 0:12:56.020 Los Angeles, but not Pasadena. So we discovered all this 0:12:56.100 --> 0:12:57.980 and we began to realize, okay, we need to do 0:12:58.000 --> 0:13:01.199 some identification and repentance, but But we have so much 0:13:01.400 --> 0:13:04.760 authority to do that. Why not get the senior pastor 0:13:04.780 --> 0:13:08.770 of the mother church of the whole denomination, Paz Naz, 0:13:08.790 --> 0:13:11.470 we call it Paz Naz for short, and the first 0:13:11.490 --> 0:13:14.870 church of the Nazarene of Pasadena. And at that time 0:13:14.910 --> 0:13:17.969 was Dr. Steve Green. And so this is now 1994. 0:13:17.950 --> 0:13:20.959 We're ready to start our church. But before we started 0:13:20.980 --> 0:13:24.880 Harvest Rock Church, we said we got to break whatever 0:13:25.000 --> 0:13:30.540 barrier spiritually is hindering our church from not dying, or 0:13:31.480 --> 0:13:34.290 we want our church, Harvest Rock Church, to flourish. So 0:13:34.350 --> 0:13:36.870 this is, we started our church April, and so this 0:13:36.950 --> 0:13:39.730 is now a few months into our church, and it's 0:13:39.809 --> 0:13:44.349 around September, October, and we set up a lunch meeting 0:13:44.550 --> 0:13:45.250 with Dr. 0:13:45.290 --> 0:13:45.890 Steve Green. 0:13:46.130 --> 0:13:48.000 So just before you go into the lunch, I just 0:13:48.040 --> 0:13:52.600 wanna get a clear picture of what's going on. There's 0:13:52.640 --> 0:13:58.699 the evangelical stream, if you will, right? The evangelical... Pastors 0:13:58.740 --> 0:14:02.280 and leaders in churches that you mentioned, many of those 0:14:02.460 --> 0:14:08.150 evangelical denomination churches don't believe in the gifts of the 0:14:08.210 --> 0:14:10.230 Holy Spirit, or they believe in them, but they don't 0:14:10.270 --> 0:14:11.150 believe they're for today. 0:14:11.450 --> 0:14:11.970 Exactly. 0:14:12.290 --> 0:14:16.570 Whereas the charismatic Pentecostal movement, they believe that the Holy 0:14:16.650 --> 0:14:19.770 Spirit is for today, right? So we're talking about speaking 0:14:19.810 --> 0:14:24.270 in tongues, prophesying, even signs and wonders, healings and miracles. Absolutely. 0:14:24.430 --> 0:14:27.190 So we're talking, now we're breaking it down, and I just... 0:14:27.420 --> 0:14:29.220 For those who are listening, I think it's important that 0:14:29.240 --> 0:14:32.760 we have an understanding. We love the whole body of Christ. 0:14:33.360 --> 0:14:33.860 Absolutely. 0:14:33.880 --> 0:14:37.920 We love the Catholics. We love even non-believers, of course. 0:14:38.180 --> 0:14:40.470 That's not the point. What we're saying is that there's 0:14:40.490 --> 0:14:45.470 a difference in doctrine even within the Christian church. And 0:14:45.530 --> 0:14:49.290 the doctrine of the evangelicals is more that the Holy 0:14:49.350 --> 0:14:52.910 Spirit was back for when Jesus walked this earth, but 0:14:52.950 --> 0:14:57.120 it's not necessarily for today. Whereas we, as charismatic Pentecostals, 0:14:57.210 --> 0:15:00.070 believe that it is for today. And that's why we 0:15:00.170 --> 0:15:03.270 prophesy in our services. That's why we pray for the 0:15:03.330 --> 0:15:05.990 sick in our services. That's why we speak in tongues. Now, 0:15:06.050 --> 0:15:08.960 there's even the whole conversation about, is that something for 0:15:09.030 --> 0:15:11.620 public or is that something for personal? Do we speak 0:15:11.660 --> 0:15:14.180 in tongues and have to have an interpretation or not? 0:15:14.460 --> 0:15:16.120 We can get into all that. But the point is, 0:15:16.180 --> 0:15:19.340 is that you coming from the East Coast, you're thinking 0:15:19.500 --> 0:15:22.110 we want to have the Holy Spirit, right? And then 0:15:22.130 --> 0:15:25.130 when we birthed Harvest Rock Church, it was birthed out 0:15:25.170 --> 0:15:27.680 of the move of the Holy Spirit. So we're all 0:15:27.720 --> 0:15:29.840 about the Holy Spirit. We're all about the presence of God, 0:15:29.880 --> 0:15:33.800 the manifestation of the presence of God. But you were saying, 0:15:34.380 --> 0:15:38.070 why hasn't there been that breakthrough in our city to 0:15:38.110 --> 0:15:41.190 experience the fullness, the full measure of His glory, the 0:15:41.230 --> 0:15:44.110 full measure of the manifestation of His Spirit? And it's 0:15:44.150 --> 0:15:47.030 because you feel that there had been certain churches and 0:15:47.050 --> 0:15:50.800 denominations that had quenched the Spirit. one of which needed 0:15:50.840 --> 0:15:54.740 to do identification repentance, which was this pastor from First 0:15:54.780 --> 0:15:56.940 Church of the Nazarene. So does that give you kind 0:15:56.980 --> 0:15:59.100 of like a little bit of a background? Because I 0:15:59.180 --> 0:16:01.440 think some people may not have an understanding of what we're. 0:16:01.460 --> 0:16:05.070 What we believe in is what we call restoration theology. 0:16:05.510 --> 0:16:09.290 It's based on Acts 3, 19. He says, repent, the 0:16:09.330 --> 0:16:12.490 times of refreshing may come from the Lord, and that 0:16:12.570 --> 0:16:15.600 Jesus must remain in heaven until the restoration of all 0:16:15.650 --> 0:16:19.320 things that were prophesied by the prophets of old. And 0:16:19.360 --> 0:16:23.900 what that means is that in revival history, God is 0:16:23.940 --> 0:16:28.800 constantly restoring truths that was lost in the Bible. And obviously, 0:16:29.990 --> 0:16:33.370 we believe that the early church started off really strong, well, 0:16:33.930 --> 0:16:38.229 but by the period of the Reformation, they've lost the 0:16:38.490 --> 0:16:41.370 doctrine of we're saved by grace through faith and now 0:16:41.410 --> 0:16:46.040 salvation is by works, that there's a separation of clergy laity, 0:16:46.380 --> 0:16:49.350 whereas in We believe that we're all priests and kings, 0:16:50.350 --> 0:16:54.350 that the Bible is only for pastors and priests, but 0:16:54.410 --> 0:16:58.350 we believe that it's for every believer. And so during 0:16:58.370 --> 0:17:02.110 the Reformation, so I wrote this in my book, Turning 0:17:02.150 --> 0:17:04.629 Our Nation Back to God, you have to go backwards 0:17:04.710 --> 0:17:06.720 in order to go forwards. So they had to go 0:17:06.780 --> 0:17:10.380 back to the early church doctrine of salvation by grace 0:17:10.680 --> 0:17:11.320 through faith. 0:17:11.420 --> 0:17:13.740 And John, not John, but. 0:17:13.640 --> 0:17:18.390 Martin Luther, restored that truth and he restored sola scriptura, 0:17:18.550 --> 0:17:21.850 only scripture, that the Bible is the authoritative word of God. 0:17:22.250 --> 0:17:24.649 It's not the Pope's word, but it has to be 0:17:24.690 --> 0:17:28.109 submitted under the Bible. So it's not Pope, whatever he 0:17:28.150 --> 0:17:33.050 says is canon. No, it's the word of God. And 0:17:33.090 --> 0:17:36.730 then he talked about the priesthood of all believers. But 0:17:36.790 --> 0:17:39.910 yet he didn't believe in water baptism. So God used 0:17:39.930 --> 0:17:47.400 the Anabaptists to restore the truth. And again, we restored 0:17:47.480 --> 0:17:49.440 part of the truth that we were saved by grace, 0:17:49.480 --> 0:17:52.220 but we didn't talk about being sanctified by grace through 0:17:52.240 --> 0:17:54.879 the Holy Spirit. John Wesley was raised up in the 0:17:54.920 --> 0:17:58.000 first great awakening to restore the truth that we can 0:17:58.020 --> 0:18:01.700 be actually holy. And so God began to restore truths, 0:18:01.920 --> 0:18:06.350 and truth, everything even practiced like evangelism with Whitefield, and 0:18:06.369 --> 0:18:10.730 it carries over to Charles Finney and D.L. 0:18:10.770 --> 0:18:11.090 Moody. 0:18:11.690 --> 0:18:15.080 But another major truth got restored in 1906 with the 0:18:15.680 --> 0:18:18.740 Azusa Street Revival, that you can be baptized in the 0:18:18.800 --> 0:18:22.420 Holy Spirit and the gifts are for today. But unfortunately, 0:18:22.440 --> 0:18:24.419 there were a lot of evangelicals. So what's happened in 0:18:24.480 --> 0:18:27.970 church history is that the previous movement persecutes the next move. 0:18:28.690 --> 0:18:32.649 And so the Catholic Church persecuted Martin Luther, but Martin 0:18:32.690 --> 0:18:38.649 Luther persecuted the Anabaptists. And then you have some of 0:18:38.670 --> 0:18:43.420 the Anabaptists that, rejected the holiness movement of John Wesley 0:18:43.460 --> 0:18:47.530 because he wasn't reformed. He had more of a human 0:18:47.590 --> 0:18:51.070 responsibility aspect of the Spirit. So you could always find 0:18:51.130 --> 0:18:54.490 something that's not perfect and then reject that movement. Well, 0:18:54.670 --> 0:18:57.690 it was interesting, the Wesleyans were the ones who rejected 0:18:57.750 --> 0:19:01.630 Azusa Street and the Pentecostal movement because most of them 0:19:01.710 --> 0:19:04.820 were who had left the United Methodist Church because it 0:19:04.900 --> 0:19:07.520 was too liberal, even back then. And they started to 0:19:07.560 --> 0:19:10.479 form like Past Nas was they wanted to be Nazarites. 0:19:11.420 --> 0:19:14.100 They wanted to be holy, so the Wesleyan denomination started 0:19:14.540 --> 0:19:17.399 around that time as well. And so you have Christian 0:19:17.420 --> 0:19:20.500 Missionary Alliance that came out of the Wesleyan movement. And so, 0:19:20.640 --> 0:19:22.699 but they were a little bit more Pentecostal because they 0:19:22.740 --> 0:19:25.149 believed healing was for today. So God started to restore 0:19:25.190 --> 0:19:31.490 it through A.B. Simpson and the CMA, Christian Missionary Alliance movement. 0:19:31.950 --> 0:19:35.770 But he really restored through Azusa Street. And so, but 0:19:36.070 --> 0:19:43.060 he's still restoring. For example, Bill Hammond, Bishop Bill Hammond, 0:19:43.080 --> 0:19:45.050 wrote the book called The Day of the Saints, and 0:19:45.109 --> 0:19:49.409 that's a terrific book. And he says that in the 40s, 0:19:49.430 --> 0:19:52.950 God restored the Ephesian 411 evangelists that moved in signs 0:19:53.020 --> 0:19:56.020 and wonders. Because you have D.L. Moody, John Wesley, they 0:19:56.040 --> 0:19:59.100 didn't move in signs and wonders. Whitfield, tremendous evangelist, but 0:19:59.119 --> 0:20:00.780 they didn't move in signs and wonders. But now you 0:20:00.820 --> 0:20:02.600 have people like Oral Roberts coming forth. 0:20:03.220 --> 0:20:04.879 You have Branham, you have A.A. 0:20:05.060 --> 0:20:08.419 Allen, you have Jack Cole, you have T.L. 0:20:08.540 --> 0:20:08.980 Osborne. 0:20:09.369 --> 0:20:13.490 All these evangelists started to do healing miracles. And really 0:20:13.540 --> 0:20:17.740 the one that first restored that was Amy Semple McPherson 0:20:18.020 --> 0:20:22.000 in 1920. The people were lined up to get healed. 0:20:22.720 --> 0:20:26.780 It was the largest church, 5,000 member church was packed. 0:20:27.000 --> 0:20:27.659 Angela's Temple. 0:20:27.740 --> 0:20:32.149 Angela's Temple, packed several times in a given Sunday. And 0:20:32.170 --> 0:20:35.690 hospitals would bring people mats so they could be prayed over. 0:20:35.710 --> 0:20:38.160 They were crippled and they would get healed. So you 0:20:38.180 --> 0:20:42.720 have this tremendous healing evangelist. So during that period, Bill 0:20:42.740 --> 0:20:45.760 Hammond says the evangelist was restored, but then he says 0:20:46.460 --> 0:20:50.939 in the 50s, the charismatic pastor got restored because Dennis 0:20:51.000 --> 0:20:55.399 Bennett was Episcopalian, pastor, got baptized in the Holy Spirit, 0:20:55.420 --> 0:20:58.050 wrote a bestselling book, 9 o'clock in the morning. And 0:20:58.070 --> 0:21:00.990 then we see a tremendous move of the Holy Spirit 0:21:01.030 --> 0:21:01.850 among all the. 0:21:01.770 --> 0:21:04.310 Denominations, the Catholic, charismatic. 0:21:04.790 --> 0:21:09.230 Lutheran, Larry Christensen, even Mennonites with Gerald Durstein. And so 0:21:09.270 --> 0:21:13.650 you see Southern Baptists, you see Methodists, Charismatics coming forth. 0:21:14.040 --> 0:21:17.540 And of course, Dennis Spender was Episcopalian or Anglican in England. 0:21:18.500 --> 0:21:21.940 But then he said in the 70s, the teacher got restored, 0:21:22.000 --> 0:21:25.040 the Ephesians 411 Charismatic teacher. And he was referring to 0:21:25.080 --> 0:21:28.060 Jack Havert, Chuck Smith, who would go through the Bible, 0:21:28.480 --> 0:21:31.139 you know, line upon line. But you have also the 0:21:31.180 --> 0:21:35.920 Word of Faith teachers, Kenneth Hagin, Kenneth Copeland, and so 0:21:35.940 --> 0:21:38.959 that was restored. Then he said in the 80s, the 0:21:39.030 --> 0:21:42.689 prophets were restored. Now, there were always teachers, evangelists, and 0:21:42.710 --> 0:21:46.770 all that, but it seems like God was highlighting these offices, 0:21:47.109 --> 0:21:49.470 and so you have the Kansas City prophets in the 80s. 0:21:49.470 --> 0:21:52.910 You have people like Bob Jones, Paul Cain, but even 0:21:52.970 --> 0:21:57.070 Cindy Jacobs. Chuck Pierce, James Gall come out of the 80s, 0:21:57.520 --> 0:22:00.780 including Bill Hammond. Even though he was functioning in the 0:22:00.800 --> 0:22:04.220 late 50s, he really comes into national prominence in the 80s. 0:22:04.720 --> 0:22:07.420 Then he says in the 90s, the apostles came forward 0:22:07.680 --> 0:22:10.220 out of the Toronto Revival. Now, they don't have to 0:22:10.270 --> 0:22:13.470 call themselves apostles, but I believe John Wimber was an 0:22:13.510 --> 0:22:16.189 apostle in the third wave. I believe John Arnott is 0:22:16.230 --> 0:22:20.330 an apostle. Bill Johns said, Of course, I am an apostle. 0:22:20.369 --> 0:22:23.150 I don't have that title, but I function as an apostle. 0:22:23.580 --> 0:22:26.840 Randy Clark, I mean, all these networks started to form, 0:22:26.880 --> 0:22:30.060 including Heidi Baker with Irish Ministry. You know, what do 0:22:30.080 --> 0:22:33.239 you do with a woman who's planted 15,000 churches? and 0:22:33.300 --> 0:22:34.700 not call her an apostle. 0:22:34.840 --> 0:22:37.659 And this all goes back to the biblical basis of 0:22:37.760 --> 0:22:39.000 Ephesians 4.11. 0:22:39.000 --> 0:22:39.300