1
00:00:00,320 --> 00:00:03,720
Speaker 1: This program features the individual opinions of the hosts, guests,

2
00:00:03,760 --> 00:00:07,200
Speaker 1: and callers, and not necessarily those of the producer, the station,

3
00:00:07,360 --> 00:00:11,559
Speaker 1: it's affiliates or sponsors. This is True Crime Tonight.

4
00:00:19,560 --> 00:00:22,880
Speaker 2: Welcome to True Crime Tonight on iHeartRadio. We're talking true

5
00:00:22,880 --> 00:00:26,079
Speaker 2: crime all the time. I'm Stephanie Leidecker here with my

6
00:00:26,200 --> 00:00:29,880
Speaker 2: favorite true crime mates, Courtney Armstrong, Body move in, and

7
00:00:29,960 --> 00:00:32,640
Speaker 2: of course we have Taha, Sam and Adam in the

8
00:00:32,640 --> 00:00:33,960
Speaker 2: control room on.

9
00:00:33,840 --> 00:00:36,160
Speaker 3: This epic Talkback Tuesday.

10
00:00:36,520 --> 00:00:40,360
Speaker 2: It's Talkback Tuesday, November eighteenth, and listen, everybody. We have

11
00:00:40,440 --> 00:00:44,199
Speaker 2: a stacked night of headlines and I'm so proud to

12
00:00:44,280 --> 00:00:49,159
Speaker 2: announce four hundred and twenty seven votes against just one.

13
00:00:49,640 --> 00:00:51,479
Speaker 3: Today Capitol Hill was.

14
00:00:51,520 --> 00:00:55,280
Speaker 2: A buzz and what an important, beautiful day for victims

15
00:00:55,400 --> 00:00:59,600
Speaker 2: everywhere and survivors everywhere, And hats.

16
00:00:59,280 --> 00:01:01,640
Speaker 3: Off, you are more united than we thought.

17
00:01:01,760 --> 00:01:05,760
Speaker 2: So today is a huge day of transparency and accountability.

18
00:01:06,240 --> 00:01:09,240
Speaker 2: And if you haven't heard, the vote is in. Epstein

19
00:01:09,360 --> 00:01:13,680
Speaker 2: files have been said to be released. The Senate approves,

20
00:01:13,720 --> 00:01:18,080
Speaker 2: the Congress approves, and now only President Trump is left

21
00:01:18,319 --> 00:01:21,319
Speaker 2: for the signature that he has said he would give.

22
00:01:21,400 --> 00:01:25,360
Speaker 2: So exciting stuff. Also, big updates in the Brian Walsh case.

23
00:01:25,400 --> 00:01:28,839
Speaker 2: We were covering this last night. If you're not following along,

24
00:01:29,040 --> 00:01:33,639
Speaker 2: he is the accused wife killer, and major developments today

25
00:01:33,640 --> 00:01:37,920
Speaker 2: on that front. And also it's being reported this just

26
00:01:38,000 --> 00:01:41,840
Speaker 2: in that David the pop star is a suspect in

27
00:01:41,880 --> 00:01:45,399
Speaker 2: the murder of fourteen year old Celeste Revs, which is

28
00:01:45,440 --> 00:01:48,800
Speaker 2: a very big update as well. So lots to unpack there.

29
00:01:49,720 --> 00:01:52,560
Speaker 2: Talk back Tuesday, ladies. How are you both tonight?

30
00:01:53,720 --> 00:01:54,080
Speaker 3: Good?

31
00:01:54,120 --> 00:01:56,920
Speaker 4: I'm excited to get into everything that awaits the next

32
00:01:56,920 --> 00:01:57,440
Speaker 4: two hours.

33
00:01:57,560 --> 00:01:59,840
Speaker 3: I'm excited. I'm excited to be here. I don't see

34
00:02:00,120 --> 00:02:00,640
Speaker 3: miles though.

35
00:02:00,720 --> 00:02:03,640
Speaker 2: Are you not feeling hopeful about all the big shenanigans

36
00:02:03,680 --> 00:02:04,720
Speaker 2: on Capitol Hill today?

37
00:02:05,800 --> 00:02:06,000
Speaker 3: No?

38
00:02:06,080 --> 00:02:08,720
Speaker 5: I think it was optics. I think it you know

39
00:02:08,760 --> 00:02:11,400
Speaker 5: how I feel? Yeah, I think it was optics. I

40
00:02:11,480 --> 00:02:12,520
Speaker 5: think the vote was.

41
00:02:14,520 --> 00:02:15,840
Speaker 3: Empty.

42
00:02:16,120 --> 00:02:19,240
Speaker 2: Doesn't it still count though, even if it's slightly empty.

43
00:02:19,360 --> 00:02:21,840
Speaker 3: Don't you have to fake it till you make it?

44
00:02:21,880 --> 00:02:23,079
Speaker 3: Does it show something?

45
00:02:23,560 --> 00:02:26,240
Speaker 2: I mean, honestly, the power in numbers four hundred and

46
00:02:26,280 --> 00:02:29,440
Speaker 2: twenty seven to one. Remember just a few days ago

47
00:02:29,480 --> 00:02:31,280
Speaker 2: it was looking like we needed the two hundred and

48
00:02:31,320 --> 00:02:32,720
Speaker 2: eighteen for.

49
00:02:32,880 --> 00:02:36,600
Speaker 3: Us our lives desperately, right, so what any difference so

50
00:02:36,720 --> 00:02:37,239
Speaker 3: we can make.

51
00:02:37,360 --> 00:02:40,320
Speaker 5: Yeah, but I think it's to say, oh, well, you know,

52
00:02:40,520 --> 00:02:43,200
Speaker 5: we tried. Look at we all voted, Yes, we tried

53
00:02:43,240 --> 00:02:46,120
Speaker 5: to release these files. We're never going to see these files.

54
00:02:47,600 --> 00:02:49,360
Speaker 5: That's just my opinion. That's just my opinion.

55
00:02:50,040 --> 00:02:53,799
Speaker 4: I think what it does show is that because all

56
00:02:53,919 --> 00:02:57,240
Speaker 4: of the politicians voted because their constituents, what I believe

57
00:02:57,280 --> 00:03:00,280
Speaker 4: their constituents were pushing for it, and so so I

58
00:03:00,320 --> 00:03:03,959
Speaker 4: do think the sort of collaboration that you were speaking

59
00:03:04,000 --> 00:03:08,359
Speaker 4: of is that the voters have, you know, put pressure

60
00:03:08,440 --> 00:03:12,600
Speaker 4: on this is the right thing to be done. And

61
00:03:12,639 --> 00:03:16,120
Speaker 4: then I'll split and go with body. I think they

62
00:03:16,160 --> 00:03:18,920
Speaker 4: agreed it's the right thing to be done because it

63
00:03:18,960 --> 00:03:21,399
Speaker 4: was easy enough. Because it will ultimately never get done

64
00:03:21,520 --> 00:03:22,720
Speaker 4: is also my vote.

65
00:03:23,040 --> 00:03:25,720
Speaker 3: But hopefully, I mean, who knows it. Doesn't this mean

66
00:03:25,760 --> 00:03:27,240
Speaker 3: that it still changes in the air.

67
00:03:27,360 --> 00:03:30,360
Speaker 2: Regardless of how we got here, regardless of whether it

68
00:03:30,400 --> 00:03:31,720
Speaker 2: was for optics or not.

69
00:03:32,400 --> 00:03:33,760
Speaker 3: Here, we are changes here.

70
00:03:33,800 --> 00:03:37,440
Speaker 2: The support is real, and sometimes you can't stop the swell,

71
00:03:38,280 --> 00:03:41,120
Speaker 2: you can't stop the feeling. Everybody, right, So I'm going

72
00:03:41,200 --> 00:03:44,480
Speaker 2: to remain hopeful. I'm going to remain hopeful right now again,

73
00:03:44,600 --> 00:03:46,840
Speaker 2: even This was supposed to take another two weeks from here,

74
00:03:47,000 --> 00:03:49,840
Speaker 2: and already we're through the Senate. So the speed with

75
00:03:49,880 --> 00:03:53,400
Speaker 2: which this is operating, I think, is a tell that

76
00:03:53,680 --> 00:03:56,200
Speaker 2: enough is enough and that there is more good than

77
00:03:56,240 --> 00:03:59,760
Speaker 2: there is bad in this world. Let's get to a

78
00:03:59,800 --> 00:04:01,800
Speaker 2: talk back and see what you guys have to say,

79
00:04:01,840 --> 00:04:03,520
Speaker 2: because we have a lot of them coming in.

80
00:04:04,520 --> 00:04:09,600
Speaker 6: Hey, guys, it's Cricket calling from Connecticut and we are

81
00:04:09,920 --> 00:04:14,640
Speaker 6: still discussing the Epstein case, which is disgusting in and

82
00:04:14,640 --> 00:04:18,600
Speaker 6: of itself that we're still having this conversation and that

83
00:04:19,160 --> 00:04:22,719
Speaker 6: nothing has been released. And what's even more upsetting is

84
00:04:22,720 --> 00:04:26,240
Speaker 6: that nothing is going to be released because they're making

85
00:04:26,279 --> 00:04:31,160
Speaker 6: sure that it becomes an open investigation again so that

86
00:04:31,240 --> 00:04:33,160
Speaker 6: it can be skirted one more time.

87
00:04:34,080 --> 00:04:36,800
Speaker 2: Okay, did you guys have a meeting with Cricket before

88
00:04:36,800 --> 00:04:37,440
Speaker 2: the show started?

89
00:04:37,960 --> 00:04:43,120
Speaker 3: Guys in alignment secretly from my nutmegs state of Connecticut.

90
00:04:43,279 --> 00:04:46,240
Speaker 5: I mean, listen, I want to be wrong about this,

91
00:04:46,279 --> 00:04:48,080
Speaker 5: and I hope I am. I hope I am wrong

92
00:04:48,080 --> 00:04:50,919
Speaker 5: because I do want to. I do envy the hope

93
00:04:50,960 --> 00:04:51,840
Speaker 5: that you that you have.

94
00:04:52,360 --> 00:04:52,680
Speaker 3: I do.

95
00:04:53,279 --> 00:04:56,480
Speaker 2: Well, Yes, go ahead, I know there's like an optics

96
00:04:56,520 --> 00:04:59,080
Speaker 2: thing just to set the stage if anybody wasn't watching today,

97
00:04:59,760 --> 00:05:03,080
Speaker 2: the victims and survivors, I should say, which I love.

98
00:05:03,160 --> 00:05:07,000
Speaker 2: I love that the ideal survivors have reclaimed the word right.

99
00:05:07,080 --> 00:05:10,800
Speaker 2: They're no longer victims, they're survivors. They are, however, still

100
00:05:10,880 --> 00:05:14,000
Speaker 2: victims of the system. And I think that's something that

101
00:05:14,160 --> 00:05:15,800
Speaker 2: you know is in progress hopefully.

102
00:05:15,880 --> 00:05:15,960
Speaker 7: So.

103
00:05:16,160 --> 00:05:19,440
Speaker 2: They all spoke so eloquently, one at a time, sharing

104
00:05:19,480 --> 00:05:23,240
Speaker 2: their story, holding their photograph of her younger version of themselves.

105
00:05:23,600 --> 00:05:26,640
Speaker 2: Hailey Robinson who was on the show. Robson Rather who

106
00:05:26,720 --> 00:05:29,280
Speaker 2: was on the show last week, also was you know,

107
00:05:29,400 --> 00:05:33,640
Speaker 2: really forceful. They were begging for transparency. This is prior

108
00:05:33,720 --> 00:05:37,440
Speaker 2: to Congress voting, urging President Trump to be mindful of

109
00:05:37,480 --> 00:05:39,400
Speaker 2: these next steps, and.

110
00:05:39,360 --> 00:05:40,599
Speaker 3: By the way, successfully so.

111
00:05:41,600 --> 00:05:44,839
Speaker 2: Just before though, a Speaker of the House, Mike Johnson

112
00:05:45,000 --> 00:05:48,680
Speaker 2: also took the podium and did set the stage for

113
00:05:49,080 --> 00:05:52,039
Speaker 2: a couple of caveats. And I guess that's what you

114
00:05:52,080 --> 00:05:55,440
Speaker 2: guys are maybe responding to, and also to Cricket's points

115
00:05:55,600 --> 00:05:59,279
Speaker 2: that you know, it's an open investigation. We talked about

116
00:05:59,320 --> 00:06:02,640
Speaker 2: this last night. Pambondy at the instruction of President Trump

117
00:06:02,680 --> 00:06:07,240
Speaker 2: on Saturday has been directed to reopen the investigation, specifically

118
00:06:07,279 --> 00:06:11,640
Speaker 2: into former President Clinton, and as a result, the idea

119
00:06:11,760 --> 00:06:17,120
Speaker 2: of something being open would make it impossible for actual

120
00:06:17,279 --> 00:06:20,400
Speaker 2: files to necessarily be released entirely.

121
00:06:21,120 --> 00:06:22,320
Speaker 3: So that was like a little.

122
00:06:22,120 --> 00:06:26,880
Speaker 2: Bit maybe setting the stage for some you know over redacting.

123
00:06:27,560 --> 00:06:31,159
Speaker 2: Redacting is basically when you black out certain names. The

124
00:06:31,200 --> 00:06:33,960
Speaker 2: administration is saying those names are being redacted for the

125
00:06:33,960 --> 00:06:38,080
Speaker 2: privacy of the victims. It seems like there's you know,

126
00:06:38,600 --> 00:06:41,560
Speaker 2: upward of a thousand of them. I think it's fair

127
00:06:41,600 --> 00:06:44,520
Speaker 2: to say we've heard from so many of the survivors

128
00:06:44,560 --> 00:06:47,760
Speaker 2: and that's likely not the case. But is that going

129
00:06:47,839 --> 00:06:48,480
Speaker 2: to be the hold up?

130
00:06:48,880 --> 00:06:51,080
Speaker 5: Well, you know who else we heard from is Mark Epstein,

131
00:06:51,320 --> 00:06:56,320
Speaker 5: who is Jeff Epstein's brother. He called into News Nation

132
00:06:57,000 --> 00:07:00,160
Speaker 5: and he said, the reason they're gonna I'm gonna be quoting, okay,

133
00:07:00,360 --> 00:07:02,919
Speaker 5: the reason they're going to be releasing these things. The

134
00:07:02,960 --> 00:07:05,719
Speaker 5: reason for the flip is that they're sanitizing these files.

135
00:07:05,760 --> 00:07:09,479
Speaker 5: There's a facility in Winchester, Virginia where they're scrubbing the

136
00:07:09,480 --> 00:07:11,600
Speaker 5: files to take Republican names out.

137
00:07:12,000 --> 00:07:14,760
Speaker 3: Yes, I don't know, how does he know that? How

138
00:07:14,800 --> 00:07:16,680
Speaker 3: would he know that? I don't know?

139
00:07:18,080 --> 00:07:21,160
Speaker 2: Is that validated I had heard that as well. He

140
00:07:21,280 --> 00:07:24,679
Speaker 2: has spoken out also about the email exchange about Trump

141
00:07:24,760 --> 00:07:27,040
Speaker 2: apparently giving Bubba air.

142
00:07:26,920 --> 00:07:29,360
Speaker 3: Quotes oral sex.

143
00:07:29,400 --> 00:07:33,000
Speaker 2: According to this email, he also spoke out about that

144
00:07:33,080 --> 00:07:37,360
Speaker 2: there had been some chatter that Bubba is President Clinton.

145
00:07:38,360 --> 00:07:41,160
Speaker 2: Epstein's brother came in and said, no, no, no, it's

146
00:07:41,200 --> 00:07:46,280
Speaker 2: not the brother. It's really not Clinton. It's a horse whatever,

147
00:07:46,400 --> 00:07:48,920
Speaker 2: it's not. Get two lost in the sauce there, and

148
00:07:48,960 --> 00:07:52,320
Speaker 2: listen Marjorie Taylor being at the front run of this,

149
00:07:52,560 --> 00:07:56,360
Speaker 2: Marjorie Taylor Green, who was you know, a day one

150
00:07:56,600 --> 00:08:01,480
Speaker 2: diehard Trump supporter, as several of the vivors as well,

151
00:08:01,560 --> 00:08:04,040
Speaker 2: who have just kind of, you know, changed their story

152
00:08:04,160 --> 00:08:09,520
Speaker 2: just based on their experience this time. You know, she's

153
00:08:09,520 --> 00:08:11,880
Speaker 2: at the front runner of it, and I like her,

154
00:08:11,960 --> 00:08:16,040
Speaker 2: dislike her. I do appreciate her grace in terms of

155
00:08:16,120 --> 00:08:18,440
Speaker 2: facing some of the things and some of the things

156
00:08:18,480 --> 00:08:22,640
Speaker 2: that she's done that maybe are no longer in alignment

157
00:08:22,760 --> 00:08:26,679
Speaker 2: with where she stands on things now and interesting times.

158
00:08:27,680 --> 00:08:29,840
Speaker 8: Yeah, to your point, like I do, I'm happy to

159
00:08:29,920 --> 00:08:33,160
Speaker 8: see that, you know, Marjorie is pushing the narrative forward

160
00:08:33,160 --> 00:08:36,040
Speaker 8: and keeping this momentum going with it. I still, as

161
00:08:36,080 --> 00:08:38,319
Speaker 8: I mentioned before. I don't forget all the things she's

162
00:08:38,320 --> 00:08:40,840
Speaker 8: said and done in the past, so but you know,

163
00:08:40,920 --> 00:08:43,160
Speaker 8: it might be a change person in some way, shape

164
00:08:43,240 --> 00:08:43,560
Speaker 8: or form.

165
00:08:43,600 --> 00:08:44,920
Speaker 3: But I don't know the whole thing.

166
00:08:45,000 --> 00:08:49,439
Speaker 8: With everything you know, under investigation, it feels like we've

167
00:08:49,480 --> 00:08:52,760
Speaker 8: seen that playbook before with the whole I'm being audited,

168
00:08:52,840 --> 00:08:55,120
Speaker 8: so I can't show you all this information. It just

169
00:08:55,160 --> 00:08:57,640
Speaker 8: feels like it's that similar thing with taxes. There's a

170
00:08:57,760 --> 00:09:00,520
Speaker 8: red with the taxes. There's a reason why, you know,

171
00:09:00,840 --> 00:09:03,200
Speaker 8: I can't show you everything, and I just that's a

172
00:09:03,280 --> 00:09:05,680
Speaker 8: concern that I have. I feel like it's under investigation,

173
00:09:05,760 --> 00:09:08,680
Speaker 8: it's just going to sit there until who knows when.

174
00:09:09,240 --> 00:09:12,320
Speaker 3: But the power the people might not stand for it,

175
00:09:12,360 --> 00:09:12,920
Speaker 3: don't you think.

176
00:09:13,160 --> 00:09:16,160
Speaker 8: I agree that the swell is bigger now, so maybe

177
00:09:16,160 --> 00:09:18,520
Speaker 8: there's enough that will keep them mintum and keep pushing

178
00:09:18,520 --> 00:09:22,480
Speaker 8: it forward. So you know, fingers crossed, I'm trying to

179
00:09:22,480 --> 00:09:26,120
Speaker 8: be optimistic, but I'm feeling like I'm leaning towards bodies

180
00:09:26,240 --> 00:09:28,280
Speaker 8: comment yesterday about a negative answer.

181
00:09:28,240 --> 00:09:30,880
Speaker 2: Cricket all of you, Sam Adam, is there any hope

182
00:09:30,920 --> 00:09:33,280
Speaker 2: in this room? I thought you guys were going to

183
00:09:33,320 --> 00:09:36,160
Speaker 2: be popping bottles of Champagne tonight when we got here,

184
00:09:36,520 --> 00:09:39,400
Speaker 2: that this was going to be a victory lap of

185
00:09:39,679 --> 00:09:43,920
Speaker 2: just like, look, everybody, unity wins and we're all thinking

186
00:09:43,960 --> 00:09:44,880
Speaker 2: in the same direction.

187
00:09:45,160 --> 00:09:47,320
Speaker 3: And that seemed impossible even just a week ago.

188
00:09:47,440 --> 00:09:51,000
Speaker 9: So you know, I was I was feeling pretty pessimistic

189
00:09:51,040 --> 00:09:53,960
Speaker 9: as well before this last week. And I have to say,

190
00:09:53,960 --> 00:09:57,600
Speaker 9: I feel like I've converted to Stephanie's side here. I'm

191
00:09:57,600 --> 00:09:59,600
Speaker 9: on the side of optimism.

192
00:09:59,280 --> 00:10:01,600
Speaker 3: All right. I like that. I like that.

193
00:10:01,679 --> 00:10:03,240
Speaker 9: You know, it's just a matter of, like, you know,

194
00:10:03,360 --> 00:10:06,280
Speaker 9: what would happen between now and you know.

195
00:10:06,360 --> 00:10:08,680
Speaker 3: Thirty days or whatever, where this would you.

196
00:10:08,720 --> 00:10:11,000
Speaker 9: Know, they'd find a way to redact it or whatever.

197
00:10:11,160 --> 00:10:13,960
Speaker 9: But true, I think there's language in the bill too

198
00:10:14,080 --> 00:10:17,480
Speaker 9: where they want the files released in the most unredacted

199
00:10:17,520 --> 00:10:20,520
Speaker 9: manner as possible too, So that's in the bill.

200
00:10:20,800 --> 00:10:22,480
Speaker 3: I think I could be wrong, that is right.

201
00:10:22,600 --> 00:10:25,040
Speaker 2: No, the Senate has also said there need not be

202
00:10:25,120 --> 00:10:27,560
Speaker 2: any further reductions and that this should get to President

203
00:10:27,960 --> 00:10:32,280
Speaker 2: Trump's desk immediately as soon as tonight perhaps, and if

204
00:10:32,400 --> 00:10:35,120
Speaker 2: there's motivation, perhaps he'll sign it by the morning.

205
00:10:36,120 --> 00:10:39,840
Speaker 4: You know. And in fact, it is written very close

206
00:10:39,880 --> 00:10:43,720
Speaker 4: to what you were saying Adam and the one dissenting vote.

207
00:10:43,720 --> 00:10:45,640
Speaker 4: So it was, as you said, Stephanie, four hundred and

208
00:10:45,640 --> 00:10:51,560
Speaker 4: twenty seven to one, but Representative Clay Higgins was the

209
00:10:51,559 --> 00:10:55,520
Speaker 4: one dissenting vote, and he argues that the bill as

210
00:10:55,559 --> 00:10:59,600
Speaker 4: it's written exposes innocent people. That includes witnesses, that includes

211
00:10:59,640 --> 00:11:03,480
Speaker 4: alibi survivors as well as family members. He also argues

212
00:11:03,480 --> 00:11:06,920
Speaker 4: that it bypasses long standing criminal justice procedures.

213
00:11:07,960 --> 00:11:09,480
Speaker 3: So that was his.

214
00:11:09,600 --> 00:11:13,760
Speaker 4: Clay Higgins's two cents on that, and also Speaker of

215
00:11:13,800 --> 00:11:16,440
Speaker 4: the House that he was that he wasn't thrilled that

216
00:11:16,559 --> 00:11:18,240
Speaker 4: it was going through unamended.

217
00:11:19,000 --> 00:11:20,520
Speaker 3: I'm sure he's not thrilled.

218
00:11:20,679 --> 00:11:24,440
Speaker 2: I mean no, no, you know, Speaker Mike Johnson was

219
00:11:24,480 --> 00:11:27,280
Speaker 2: sent out there to really set the stage for us

220
00:11:27,320 --> 00:11:29,760
Speaker 2: to be wildly disappointed and to make sure that we

221
00:11:29,800 --> 00:11:32,040
Speaker 2: all knew that chances are much of this would be

222
00:11:32,040 --> 00:11:36,360
Speaker 2: sanitized and redacted and it's an open investigation and and

223
00:11:37,400 --> 00:11:40,640
Speaker 2: but it seems like they blew past that. So I

224
00:11:40,679 --> 00:11:42,840
Speaker 2: don't know, I'm going to say that the swell is real.

225
00:11:43,559 --> 00:11:45,360
Speaker 4: Well, let's see what do you guys think. Give us

226
00:11:45,360 --> 00:11:47,080
Speaker 4: a call. Reread eight to eight through on crime. This

227
00:11:47,200 --> 00:11:50,720
Speaker 4: is true crime tonight I'm Courtney. I am here with

228
00:11:50,800 --> 00:11:56,360
Speaker 4: the ever optimistic Stephanie Leidecker and the always looking at

229
00:11:56,360 --> 00:11:59,679
Speaker 4: the other side body movin. Yeah, where do you stand?

230
00:11:59,679 --> 00:12:01,280
Speaker 4: We love to hear and give us a call or

231
00:12:01,320 --> 00:12:03,800
Speaker 4: send us a talkback. It's right on the iHeartRadio app

232
00:12:03,880 --> 00:12:07,439
Speaker 4: upper right hand corner. Press little microphone, speak into it

233
00:12:07,520 --> 00:12:09,480
Speaker 4: and it comes right into us.

234
00:12:09,800 --> 00:12:11,520
Speaker 3: And with that, let's go to another talkback.

235
00:12:12,480 --> 00:12:15,680
Speaker 7: Hi, It's Carol from Pennsylvania listening to your show from

236
00:12:15,760 --> 00:12:20,800
Speaker 7: last night where the callers just said about why didn't

237
00:12:20,800 --> 00:12:25,920
Speaker 7: the previous presidents release the Epstein files? That is, because

238
00:12:25,960 --> 00:12:30,080
Speaker 7: they could not legally could not. The files were still

239
00:12:30,160 --> 00:12:34,439
Speaker 7: deemed as active investigation. As long as they are active,

240
00:12:34,559 --> 00:12:38,640
Speaker 7: you cannot release them. Then they were closed. And then

241
00:12:38,679 --> 00:12:42,280
Speaker 7: here's Trump, so he is the first president who could

242
00:12:42,440 --> 00:12:46,000
Speaker 7: release them. But now they're saying he might start some

243
00:12:46,080 --> 00:12:49,480
Speaker 7: kind of new investigation, which would mean again that they

244
00:12:49,520 --> 00:12:51,360
Speaker 7: could not be released.

245
00:12:51,800 --> 00:13:00,240
Speaker 10: We'll see you guys are hilarious, buddy, and everybody in

246
00:13:00,280 --> 00:13:04,080
Speaker 10: this situation, please vote.

247
00:13:05,559 --> 00:13:07,960
Speaker 2: I mean, there's always that guy, right, Why is there

248
00:13:08,000 --> 00:13:11,440
Speaker 2: always just one rando guy who's like me?

249
00:13:11,679 --> 00:13:14,720
Speaker 3: Again? This is the hill I'm gonna die on cover ups.

250
00:13:14,840 --> 00:13:17,640
Speaker 3: I'm into them, right, I don't know.

251
00:13:17,679 --> 00:13:21,679
Speaker 5: I mean, maybe maybe things will fall through on this investigation.

252
00:13:21,840 --> 00:13:25,520
Speaker 5: Maybe they'll only redact files in relation to the investigation,

253
00:13:26,040 --> 00:13:28,120
Speaker 5: and maybe we'll get you know, maybe the other half.

254
00:13:29,400 --> 00:13:31,840
Speaker 5: But you know, as long as listen, the same reason

255
00:13:32,000 --> 00:13:34,800
Speaker 5: that other presidents haven't released the files is the same

256
00:13:34,840 --> 00:13:36,720
Speaker 5: reason we're not going to get them. It's because there's

257
00:13:36,720 --> 00:13:40,600
Speaker 5: an open investigation. And they just open this investigation now

258
00:13:40,600 --> 00:13:44,679
Speaker 5: onto Bill Clinton. So and it deties to Epstein. That's

259
00:13:44,960 --> 00:13:46,640
Speaker 5: specifically what the investigation's for.

260
00:13:46,800 --> 00:13:47,040
Speaker 3: Right.

261
00:13:47,320 --> 00:13:49,320
Speaker 2: Well, that's why it's so important that we're talking about it,

262
00:13:49,360 --> 00:13:51,760
Speaker 2: because I think because we've all been talking about it

263
00:13:51,800 --> 00:13:53,880
Speaker 2: for the last week alone, I think that in fact

264
00:13:53,920 --> 00:13:56,440
Speaker 2: has created a swell. So I think we are larger

265
00:13:56,440 --> 00:13:59,840
Speaker 2: than we think in terms of voices collectively. I'm not

266
00:13:59,880 --> 00:14:02,800
Speaker 2: just saying us, surely, I'm saying as a community, as

267
00:14:02,800 --> 00:14:05,880
Speaker 2: a country. And I love it. I love all the

268
00:14:06,520 --> 00:14:09,040
Speaker 2: all the men, all the women together kind of like this.

269
00:14:09,480 --> 00:14:12,240
Speaker 2: We're better than that, we know better than this. And

270
00:14:12,320 --> 00:14:14,960
Speaker 2: I think that we'll see more of it. And I

271
00:14:14,960 --> 00:14:19,080
Speaker 2: don't know that anybody will stand for some nonsense redacted

272
00:14:19,200 --> 00:14:20,040
Speaker 2: version of stuff.

273
00:14:20,160 --> 00:14:23,160
Speaker 3: I think people want the bank records. We want to know.

274
00:14:23,040 --> 00:14:27,040
Speaker 2: What people were accused of and what caused investigations and

275
00:14:27,080 --> 00:14:29,440
Speaker 2: to keep people in the first place. You know, some

276
00:14:29,520 --> 00:14:33,440
Speaker 2: of those civil lawsuits need to be unearthed, and what

277
00:14:33,520 --> 00:14:37,920
Speaker 2: were people being paid to be quiet about? That is

278
00:14:38,040 --> 00:14:41,840
Speaker 2: in there somewhere, and it is there a proverbial list,

279
00:14:42,160 --> 00:14:45,080
Speaker 2: likely not, but I think we got to follow the money.

280
00:14:45,760 --> 00:14:49,120
Speaker 3: Yeah, oh for sure, for sure, we got to follow

281
00:14:49,160 --> 00:14:51,640
Speaker 3: the money with that and the and the list.

282
00:14:51,760 --> 00:14:53,480
Speaker 4: No, it's not like you know what you right to

283
00:14:53,560 --> 00:14:55,440
Speaker 4: Santa of you know one.

284
00:14:55,360 --> 00:14:56,200
Speaker 3: Two through four five.

285
00:14:56,960 --> 00:15:00,480
Speaker 4: However, I would have to imagine these are investigative files

286
00:15:00,480 --> 00:15:04,120
Speaker 4: with information that was investigated, and therefore there would be

287
00:15:04,160 --> 00:15:07,920
Speaker 4: perpetrators listed in within the documents and.

288
00:15:07,960 --> 00:15:10,920
Speaker 2: Any of the SCI filings, any of the grand jury filings,

289
00:15:10,960 --> 00:15:14,440
Speaker 2: and what was Gelane Maxwell ultimately charged with and why

290
00:15:15,080 --> 00:15:17,840
Speaker 2: those are really important documents that I think need to

291
00:15:17,840 --> 00:15:20,280
Speaker 2: be unsealed. And by the way, who cares what I think?

292
00:15:20,640 --> 00:15:22,880
Speaker 2: I think? Collectively, that's the rally call.

293
00:15:23,120 --> 00:15:24,640
Speaker 3: I care what you think, and.

294
00:15:24,760 --> 00:15:26,440
Speaker 2: I love you, and I don't think either of you

295
00:15:26,480 --> 00:15:29,520
Speaker 2: are pessimistic. You're just realists. That's true.

296
00:15:30,320 --> 00:15:32,640
Speaker 4: Well, we really hope you keep it here because when

297
00:15:32,680 --> 00:15:37,920
Speaker 4: we come back. Your Epstein talkbacks continue pouring in, and

298
00:15:38,040 --> 00:15:40,119
Speaker 4: we have that and we have a.

299
00:15:39,880 --> 00:15:41,640
Speaker 3: Lot more coming up. Keep it here.

300
00:15:41,760 --> 00:15:44,560
Speaker 4: True Crime Tonight, we were talking true crime all the time.

301
00:15:54,600 --> 00:15:57,640
Speaker 2: Welcome back to true Crime Tonight on iHeartRadio. We're talking

302
00:15:57,680 --> 00:16:02,240
Speaker 2: true crime all the time. Stephanie Decker here with Courtney Armstrong,

303
00:16:02,560 --> 00:16:06,400
Speaker 2: body move in and the boys in the studio Taha,

304
00:16:06,800 --> 00:16:10,000
Speaker 2: Sam and Adam and listen. We are a studio divided

305
00:16:10,080 --> 00:16:13,320
Speaker 2: about the bigness of the news today. Four hundred and

306
00:16:13,360 --> 00:16:17,600
Speaker 2: twenty seven votes against just one. And will the Epstein

307
00:16:17,640 --> 00:16:21,600
Speaker 2: files be released at last? President Trump is the final

308
00:16:21,680 --> 00:16:25,480
Speaker 2: signature needed, and I remain hopeful that that will happen

309
00:16:25,560 --> 00:16:29,520
Speaker 2: swiftly and quickly and justice will prevail. Even as I

310
00:16:29,560 --> 00:16:33,440
Speaker 2: say that, there's several eyebrows lifted and a couple of

311
00:16:33,880 --> 00:16:35,440
Speaker 2: headshakes from left to right.

312
00:16:35,560 --> 00:16:37,320
Speaker 3: So we're going with it. We're going with it. But

313
00:16:37,360 --> 00:16:39,160
Speaker 3: it doesn't matter because it's talked back Tuesday. So we

314
00:16:39,200 --> 00:16:42,360
Speaker 3: want to hear from you. Eight eight eight three one crime.

315
00:16:42,400 --> 00:16:45,720
Speaker 2: Please jump in join the convo, and in fact, let's

316
00:16:45,720 --> 00:16:46,440
Speaker 2: go to a talk back.

317
00:16:46,480 --> 00:16:50,720
Speaker 3: Now. I had a question about the NDAs.

318
00:16:51,200 --> 00:16:56,480
Speaker 5: I always thought that NDAs couldn't be broken unless it

319
00:16:56,720 --> 00:17:00,000
Speaker 5: was something to do with a criminal offense.

320
00:17:01,000 --> 00:17:01,960
Speaker 3: Is that true or not?

321
00:17:03,360 --> 00:17:06,600
Speaker 2: This is a great question. I'm so glad we are

322
00:17:06,600 --> 00:17:08,119
Speaker 2: getting this question. We should unpack this.

323
00:17:08,520 --> 00:17:11,080
Speaker 3: We should, we should, And yes, she's correct.

324
00:17:11,080 --> 00:17:14,879
Speaker 5: If the NDA is hiding a criminal offense, it's basically

325
00:17:15,000 --> 00:17:18,920
Speaker 5: Nolan void. But NDAs are rarely held up because they're

326
00:17:18,920 --> 00:17:23,000
Speaker 5: often too vague and too broad. And I only know

327
00:17:23,040 --> 00:17:25,560
Speaker 5: this because I sign a lot of NDAs, and so

328
00:17:25,800 --> 00:17:28,320
Speaker 5: my lawyer was like, you don't have to really worry.

329
00:17:28,119 --> 00:17:31,040
Speaker 2: About it that much, right, But if you're just playing

330
00:17:31,040 --> 00:17:33,960
Speaker 2: along for the first time, a non disclosure agreement is

331
00:17:33,960 --> 00:17:36,720
Speaker 2: what that stands for. And again, they're pretty common, even

332
00:17:36,720 --> 00:17:39,200
Speaker 2: if you were developing, say a concept or a TV

333
00:17:39,359 --> 00:17:43,320
Speaker 2: show idea. Oftentimes people that come together with ideas we

334
00:17:44,000 --> 00:17:47,240
Speaker 2: sign non disclosure agreements, meaning you're not going to go

335
00:17:47,240 --> 00:17:49,119
Speaker 2: and run around and tell this idea to everybody and

336
00:17:49,160 --> 00:17:52,719
Speaker 2: their brother. We're keeping it between us. So oftentimes, as

337
00:17:52,720 --> 00:17:54,879
Speaker 2: we've seen in this case, in exchange for maybe a

338
00:17:54,920 --> 00:17:59,800
Speaker 2: payout or a hush money or silence, non disclosure agreements

339
00:17:59,880 --> 00:18:03,959
Speaker 2: or put into place by lawyers so that perhaps victims

340
00:18:04,040 --> 00:18:09,080
Speaker 2: or survivors really just don't speak about this or anybody involved.

341
00:18:09,160 --> 00:18:10,560
Speaker 3: Frankly ever, again.

342
00:18:10,960 --> 00:18:14,760
Speaker 2: Pretty standard until you're or when people get you know,

343
00:18:14,840 --> 00:18:17,960
Speaker 2: released from a job. Yeah, right, you know, you can't

344
00:18:17,960 --> 00:18:20,240
Speaker 2: talk about what happened behind the scenes. And this happens

345
00:18:20,240 --> 00:18:23,080
Speaker 2: on shows. This is very common, very common. But in

346
00:18:23,119 --> 00:18:25,840
Speaker 2: this case, if there's something that's cash being held up

347
00:18:26,040 --> 00:18:30,440
Speaker 2: in something that is now nefariously put under a criminal spotlight,

348
00:18:30,600 --> 00:18:31,320
Speaker 2: what does that mean?

349
00:18:31,760 --> 00:18:31,960
Speaker 10: Right?

350
00:18:32,440 --> 00:18:36,280
Speaker 5: And you know, Ebstein and his lawyers used non disclosure

351
00:18:36,320 --> 00:18:41,520
Speaker 5: agreements and confidentiality clauses and sealed civil.

352
00:18:41,240 --> 00:18:43,440
Speaker 3: Settlements to keep victims from speaking.

353
00:18:43,119 --> 00:18:45,600
Speaker 5: Publicly, and they were like a really major part of

354
00:18:45,600 --> 00:18:49,240
Speaker 5: his strategy, his defense strategy, you know, throughout the years, right.

355
00:18:49,920 --> 00:18:54,719
Speaker 5: And these nbas were often attached to civil settlements, sediments,

356
00:18:55,240 --> 00:19:01,720
Speaker 5: civil settlements, financial payouts, non prosecution agreements, which is interesting, right,

357
00:19:02,440 --> 00:19:05,040
Speaker 5: and employment contracts for like staff that he had at

358
00:19:05,040 --> 00:19:08,879
Speaker 5: his house and whatnot. So yeah, the NBA's would be

359
00:19:09,480 --> 00:19:13,640
Speaker 5: you know, void, but they also unfortunately had settlements attached

360
00:19:13,640 --> 00:19:16,920
Speaker 5: to them. So that was done in court, right, where

361
00:19:17,080 --> 00:19:21,280
Speaker 5: maybe somebody was suing him and they settled that's a

362
00:19:21,320 --> 00:19:24,280
Speaker 5: different story, but there was an NBA attached to it.

363
00:19:24,680 --> 00:19:29,120
Speaker 5: But the settlement agreement all the information you know that

364
00:19:29,400 --> 00:19:32,439
Speaker 5: is compiled, and that settlement agreement would still be confidential,

365
00:19:32,840 --> 00:19:34,440
Speaker 5: and breaking that would be a problem.

366
00:19:34,800 --> 00:19:37,120
Speaker 2: And by the way, this also happens in smaller ways.

367
00:19:37,119 --> 00:19:39,800
Speaker 2: Say you're a movie star or a celebrity and you

368
00:19:39,960 --> 00:19:42,720
Speaker 2: have a nanny working in your house it's not on.

369
00:19:43,040 --> 00:19:44,640
Speaker 2: Or you have a party and you're a movie star

370
00:19:44,800 --> 00:19:47,879
Speaker 2: or a celebrity. I've had to sign non disclosure as

371
00:19:47,920 --> 00:19:52,080
Speaker 2: if I'm going to so many celebrity parties have different

372
00:19:52,119 --> 00:19:55,320
Speaker 2: parties just forever signing non disclosure agreements.

373
00:19:55,720 --> 00:19:55,960
Speaker 7: I'm just.

374
00:19:57,440 --> 00:20:01,040
Speaker 3: Time. Okay, girl, crend dream.

375
00:20:01,200 --> 00:20:03,840
Speaker 2: But listen, you know that's a common thing that when

376
00:20:03,880 --> 00:20:06,200
Speaker 2: you attend you know, if you go to the Kardashian's

377
00:20:06,240 --> 00:20:09,280
Speaker 2: Christmas party, in my assumption is there's probably something that

378
00:20:09,359 --> 00:20:11,840
Speaker 2: you sign to say you're not going to a act

379
00:20:11,880 --> 00:20:14,280
Speaker 2: a fool. But if you do, or somebody else does,

380
00:20:14,520 --> 00:20:16,000
Speaker 2: we're not going to talk about it, right, We're going

381
00:20:16,040 --> 00:20:17,600
Speaker 2: to keep it cool and pictures are going to be

382
00:20:17,600 --> 00:20:18,480
Speaker 2: at a minimum.

383
00:20:18,680 --> 00:20:19,919
Speaker 3: That's the small side of it.

384
00:20:20,320 --> 00:20:22,480
Speaker 2: But yeah, when you're in a big deal and somehow

385
00:20:22,560 --> 00:20:25,840
Speaker 2: you're getting silenced because you're being given cash or the

386
00:20:25,920 --> 00:20:30,000
Speaker 2: promise of tuition or a job, and in this case

387
00:20:30,040 --> 00:20:32,280
Speaker 2: that seems to be the name of the game, or

388
00:20:32,400 --> 00:20:36,640
Speaker 2: confidentiality agreements, which might be a little bit more ironclad. Yes,

389
00:20:36,680 --> 00:20:37,880
Speaker 2: body who's raising her hands?

390
00:20:37,880 --> 00:20:39,560
Speaker 5: So I was, we were talking about these you know,

391
00:20:39,560 --> 00:20:41,920
Speaker 5: we're talking about these NDAs and whatnot. In the talkback

392
00:20:42,040 --> 00:20:45,159
Speaker 5: was so good, by the way, great talkback, and she's like,

393
00:20:45,240 --> 00:20:46,840
Speaker 5: you know, why don't they just know one of these

394
00:20:46,920 --> 00:20:51,800
Speaker 5: NDAs well? After the twenty nineteen arrest and again after

395
00:20:51,840 --> 00:20:54,600
Speaker 5: his death, obviously, the judge is ruled that victims could

396
00:20:54,640 --> 00:20:58,000
Speaker 5: basically ignore all the NDAs. That's not why they're not talking.

397
00:20:58,480 --> 00:21:01,159
Speaker 5: They're not talking because of the NDAs. Right, No nobody

398
00:21:01,160 --> 00:21:04,480
Speaker 5: cares about the NBA's right. If I'm an Epstein victim,

399
00:21:04,520 --> 00:21:07,639
Speaker 5: I give one crap about those NDAs. I'm more concerned

400
00:21:07,640 --> 00:21:09,800
Speaker 5: about my safety, right, you know.

401
00:21:09,760 --> 00:21:10,040
Speaker 3: What I mean?

402
00:21:10,080 --> 00:21:14,560
Speaker 4: Because I mean powerful people being power shrouded allegedly.

403
00:21:14,200 --> 00:21:16,040
Speaker 5: And even I mean, that's why we say it's so

404
00:21:16,160 --> 00:21:18,480
Speaker 5: brave of them, even to stand on those Capitol Hill

405
00:21:18,560 --> 00:21:19,560
Speaker 5: steps like that is.

406
00:21:20,080 --> 00:21:24,199
Speaker 8: Brave to save because speak out and show yourself. But

407
00:21:24,280 --> 00:21:26,800
Speaker 8: I think there's that strength in numbers. I think I

408
00:21:26,800 --> 00:21:28,600
Speaker 8: feel like early on they said, we didn't even know

409
00:21:28,640 --> 00:21:30,880
Speaker 8: if some of these other people had experienced the same thing.

410
00:21:30,960 --> 00:21:34,720
Speaker 8: So I think once the community bills, there is that

411
00:21:34,800 --> 00:21:36,000
Speaker 8: strength together, right.

412
00:21:36,440 --> 00:21:38,879
Speaker 5: And so after this arrest, the judge ruled that the

413
00:21:38,960 --> 00:21:42,760
Speaker 5: victims could ignore those NDAs. The prosecutors said that the

414
00:21:42,840 --> 00:21:46,960
Speaker 5: NDA's had no legal force in any criminal investigation. And

415
00:21:47,040 --> 00:21:49,000
Speaker 5: that's when a lot of public that's when we started

416
00:21:49,040 --> 00:21:51,680
Speaker 5: seeing the faces of some of the victims. Now they said,

417
00:21:51,800 --> 00:21:54,560
Speaker 5: you know that they're survivors, right, they're epscene survivors, but

418
00:21:54,560 --> 00:21:56,639
Speaker 5: they don't give us any details. And I think the

419
00:21:56,720 --> 00:21:58,840
Speaker 5: reason they don't give us any details is because it's.

420
00:21:58,760 --> 00:22:01,480
Speaker 3: Terrible, yeah, and triggering, right.

421
00:22:01,520 --> 00:22:03,440
Speaker 2: And by the way, you're so right, of course, And

422
00:22:03,480 --> 00:22:07,639
Speaker 2: because of these non disclosure agreements or confidentiality agreements or

423
00:22:07,760 --> 00:22:08,520
Speaker 2: payments paid.

424
00:22:08,880 --> 00:22:12,080
Speaker 3: Yeah, all of these women hadn't been swapping recipes.

425
00:22:12,119 --> 00:22:15,080
Speaker 2: They hadn't been They hadn't even been aware that there

426
00:22:15,080 --> 00:22:20,639
Speaker 2: were that many other women living parallel existences, despite the

427
00:22:20,640 --> 00:22:22,679
Speaker 2: fact that they had the same shared experience. And I

428
00:22:22,680 --> 00:22:26,200
Speaker 2: guess that's what's so I think that's the takeaway. Get loud.

429
00:22:27,200 --> 00:22:29,800
Speaker 2: You know one of the survivors today and I'm forgetting

430
00:22:29,800 --> 00:22:32,399
Speaker 2: her name top of head, please forgive me. And she

431
00:22:32,440 --> 00:22:34,160
Speaker 2: said it so you know so perfectly.

432
00:22:34,680 --> 00:22:34,919
Speaker 3: You know.

433
00:22:35,040 --> 00:22:39,000
Speaker 2: Her advice was, you know, if anything happens to you,

434
00:22:39,200 --> 00:22:41,760
Speaker 2: if you feel victimized, if you've been victimized, if something

435
00:22:41,800 --> 00:22:44,160
Speaker 2: feels off, please tell somebody.

436
00:22:44,480 --> 00:22:45,040
Speaker 3: And if that.

437
00:22:44,960 --> 00:22:49,159
Speaker 2: Person ignores you and they don't believe you, tell somebody else.

438
00:22:49,440 --> 00:22:51,760
Speaker 2: And then if that person doesn't believe you. I mean,

439
00:22:51,800 --> 00:22:53,879
Speaker 2: that is the truth. You can't get shut down. And

440
00:22:54,200 --> 00:22:56,120
Speaker 2: I think just the fact that we're all talking about

441
00:22:56,160 --> 00:22:58,960
Speaker 2: it and yelling it from the rooftops is powerful in

442
00:22:59,000 --> 00:22:59,640
Speaker 2: and of itself.

443
00:23:00,040 --> 00:23:02,440
Speaker 8: Almost like what Chelsea was saying yesterday our guests, who

444
00:23:02,680 --> 00:23:06,280
Speaker 8: was also talking about the military situation, she wasn't speak up,

445
00:23:06,400 --> 00:23:09,359
Speaker 8: talk about it and keep that voice.

446
00:23:09,200 --> 00:23:11,720
Speaker 3: Up loud and talk about it as much as possible.

447
00:23:11,760 --> 00:23:14,480
Speaker 8: But but yeah, I'm glad, thank you body for clarifying

448
00:23:14,480 --> 00:23:17,400
Speaker 8: that NDA because you know, I always wondered, like, oh,

449
00:23:17,440 --> 00:23:19,200
Speaker 8: I'm freaked out I signed something. Am I going to

450
00:23:19,240 --> 00:23:20,359
Speaker 8: get in trouble if I break it?

451
00:23:20,880 --> 00:23:22,520
Speaker 3: I mean, no, you shouldn't break it.

452
00:23:22,600 --> 00:23:26,840
Speaker 5: You shouldn't break any professionally speaking, breaking one is like

453
00:23:26,880 --> 00:23:28,960
Speaker 5: a death sentence right for you professionally.

454
00:23:29,040 --> 00:23:31,360
Speaker 3: But we yeah, we used to have to.

455
00:23:31,320 --> 00:23:34,080
Speaker 2: Sign big ones, million dollar ones. When I used to

456
00:23:34,080 --> 00:23:36,800
Speaker 2: work on The Bachelor, the one for the mole that

457
00:23:36,840 --> 00:23:39,280
Speaker 2: I saw the mole, I'm sure, or when we were

458
00:23:39,359 --> 00:23:39,960
Speaker 2: on Mass Singer.

459
00:23:40,560 --> 00:23:43,199
Speaker 3: Worked on Mass Singer. Oh that's a big one. I

460
00:23:43,200 --> 00:23:46,359
Speaker 3: mean that it is like they have to come.

461
00:23:46,240 --> 00:23:49,680
Speaker 2: To Jesus with you, like you are not messing around.

462
00:23:49,680 --> 00:23:51,400
Speaker 2: I mean, think about it. You screw up so many

463
00:23:51,480 --> 00:23:54,840
Speaker 2: people's jobs and careers if you get loose lipped, and

464
00:23:54,960 --> 00:23:57,680
Speaker 2: on The Bachelor too, if you knew the ending, if

465
00:23:57,800 --> 00:24:00,959
Speaker 2: you were one of the few that were still there

466
00:24:01,160 --> 00:24:08,480
Speaker 2: when the weddings were proposals.

467
00:24:08,560 --> 00:24:10,679
Speaker 3: So I was like, and you know me, it's like

468
00:24:10,680 --> 00:24:11,800
Speaker 3: I wear it all in my face.

469
00:24:11,800 --> 00:24:14,440
Speaker 2: But I'm like, whoo, I have a million dollar non

470
00:24:14,480 --> 00:24:15,720
Speaker 2: disclosure agreement.

471
00:24:16,480 --> 00:24:18,439
Speaker 3: Yeah, I don't have a good moum is the word?

472
00:24:18,720 --> 00:24:21,800
Speaker 5: Yeah, right right, yeah, No, I'm not ever breaking in

473
00:24:21,920 --> 00:24:23,240
Speaker 5: DA's intentionally.

474
00:24:23,880 --> 00:24:25,000
Speaker 3: What do you think about all this?

475
00:24:25,080 --> 00:24:27,000
Speaker 5: Give us a call eighty eight thirty one crime or

476
00:24:27,040 --> 00:24:29,680
Speaker 5: hit us on the iHeartRadio app. Just give us a

477
00:24:29,720 --> 00:24:32,200
Speaker 5: talkback and you're on the show. This is true Crime tonight.

478
00:24:33,480 --> 00:24:35,760
Speaker 5: So what do you want to go to another talkback?

479
00:24:36,119 --> 00:24:38,040
Speaker 3: Let's do let's do it. We're got some good ones.

480
00:24:38,640 --> 00:24:41,080
Speaker 11: Hey, this is Jen I love the show. I'm calling

481
00:24:41,160 --> 00:24:43,840
Speaker 11: from Iowa. I'm just listening the last night's episode where

482
00:24:43,840 --> 00:24:46,520
Speaker 11: you're talking about the relief of Epstein files.

483
00:24:46,840 --> 00:24:47,680
Speaker 3: Even if I do.

484
00:24:47,720 --> 00:24:50,439
Speaker 11: Really sell that document stuff, aren't all of those people

485
00:24:50,560 --> 00:24:53,959
Speaker 11: covered under his clause that no one else involved can

486
00:24:53,960 --> 00:24:54,600
Speaker 11: get in trouble?

487
00:24:54,800 --> 00:24:55,359
Speaker 12: I know it.

488
00:24:55,320 --> 00:24:57,960
Speaker 11: Matters that they involved, but aren't they still getting a

489
00:24:58,040 --> 00:25:02,120
Speaker 11: scapegoat because there's in his saw just a thought what.

490
00:25:02,119 --> 00:25:07,119
Speaker 5: A smart woman? Oh clever, very very sorry, No, because

491
00:25:07,119 --> 00:25:10,960
Speaker 5: that was a state deal, right, seth so.

492
00:25:11,080 --> 00:25:14,399
Speaker 2: Ultimately, which was unique to that situation, but it definitely

493
00:25:14,400 --> 00:25:15,160
Speaker 2: worth exploring.

494
00:25:15,280 --> 00:25:16,320
Speaker 3: And you're so right.

495
00:25:16,840 --> 00:25:18,760
Speaker 2: What was unique to that deal is that it was

496
00:25:18,800 --> 00:25:21,360
Speaker 2: a state Florida state. So what happened in West Palm

497
00:25:21,359 --> 00:25:24,840
Speaker 2: Beach he was arrested only on state charges really, so

498
00:25:24,840 --> 00:25:29,360
Speaker 2: the larger ones were federal charges where he committed suicide allegedly,

499
00:25:29,400 --> 00:25:31,520
Speaker 2: allegedly allegedly. By the way, can we all get on

500
00:25:31,520 --> 00:25:33,720
Speaker 2: board with the fact that there was no suicide and

501
00:25:34,400 --> 00:25:38,159
Speaker 2: had the autopsies suggest it was pure murder and ALLNet

502
00:25:38,200 --> 00:25:43,040
Speaker 2: against minute, the minutes missing and the guards were sleeping

503
00:25:43,200 --> 00:25:46,320
Speaker 2: and the perfect storm. It just seems like this has

504
00:25:46,359 --> 00:25:48,680
Speaker 2: just been a messy road on all things Epstein.

505
00:25:48,800 --> 00:25:49,480
Speaker 3: Enough is enough.

506
00:25:50,000 --> 00:25:54,400
Speaker 5: Kilaine Maxwell tried to appeal her conviction based on that

507
00:25:54,840 --> 00:26:00,679
Speaker 5: immunity or non prosecutorial agreement that Epstein had made with

508
00:26:00,800 --> 00:26:04,399
Speaker 5: them alex Acosta. Alex Acosta right correct, and it was

509
00:26:04,880 --> 00:26:09,680
Speaker 5: it was denied right because of this state versus federal issue.

510
00:26:10,200 --> 00:26:13,200
Speaker 5: So I think the same would apply to anybody in

511
00:26:13,240 --> 00:26:17,119
Speaker 5: these papers, right Like, you know, it's not going to

512
00:26:17,440 --> 00:26:19,760
Speaker 5: it's not going to fall under that umbrella because the

513
00:26:20,160 --> 00:26:23,800
Speaker 5: agreement with this non you know, prosecutorial agreement thing that

514
00:26:23,840 --> 00:26:27,160
Speaker 5: he had with Acosta was really only for Florida, right

515
00:26:27,640 --> 00:26:28,280
Speaker 5: cor exactly.

516
00:26:28,600 --> 00:26:31,719
Speaker 2: And his you know, Lisa Bryant, who was the director

517
00:26:31,760 --> 00:26:33,760
Speaker 2: that joined us from the documentary, she had made the

518
00:26:33,800 --> 00:26:38,600
Speaker 2: suggestion that there were, you know, ten dozens of victims

519
00:26:38,640 --> 00:26:43,320
Speaker 2: attached to that original West Palm Beach accusations. There were

520
00:26:43,359 --> 00:26:46,760
Speaker 2: so many accusations and it was really boiled down to

521
00:26:46,920 --> 00:26:50,000
Speaker 2: only one charge or one and a half charges. And

522
00:26:50,040 --> 00:26:52,320
Speaker 2: you'll remember he got kind of a sweetheart deal where

523
00:26:52,320 --> 00:26:54,879
Speaker 2: he was, yes, he had to go to jail, but

524
00:26:55,160 --> 00:26:58,560
Speaker 2: he was released to Rome free. During the stays a week,

525
00:26:58,880 --> 00:27:02,080
Speaker 2: twelve hours a day, can you imagine. So it was

526
00:27:02,119 --> 00:27:03,880
Speaker 2: like a part time jail sentence.

527
00:27:04,400 --> 00:27:06,720
Speaker 3: So he got like a real cushy deal.

528
00:27:07,080 --> 00:27:09,440
Speaker 2: And you know that's really being looked at with a

529
00:27:09,480 --> 00:27:13,199
Speaker 2: fine tooth comb now with retrospect alex Acosta being the

530
00:27:13,240 --> 00:27:16,200
Speaker 2: one in the hot seat and recently was as a result.

531
00:27:16,800 --> 00:27:19,840
Speaker 2: But again that's years and years and years ago. Gilaine

532
00:27:19,840 --> 00:27:23,600
Speaker 2: Maxwell is now claiming, hey, look at that time, during

533
00:27:23,640 --> 00:27:27,280
Speaker 2: those state charges, I would have been considered air quotes

534
00:27:27,280 --> 00:27:33,560
Speaker 2: one of the co conspirators and therefore immune immunity should apply. Therefore,

535
00:27:33,640 --> 00:27:37,119
Speaker 2: when she was charged federally and sentenced to twenty years

536
00:27:37,160 --> 00:27:40,960
Speaker 2: federal charges, that's her kind of claim, like I shouldn't

537
00:27:41,000 --> 00:27:43,000
Speaker 2: have been tried federally in the first place because I

538
00:27:43,040 --> 00:27:47,480
Speaker 2: was already protected under the state jurisdiction of this non

539
00:27:47,640 --> 00:27:52,919
Speaker 2: prosecutory co conspirator clause, which is by way also unheard of,

540
00:27:53,440 --> 00:27:54,439
Speaker 2: Like who gets that clause?

541
00:27:55,680 --> 00:27:57,320
Speaker 3: So it's a fair question. We don't know.

542
00:27:57,359 --> 00:28:00,880
Speaker 2: These are unchartered territories. It seems pretty clear that Epstein

543
00:28:00,960 --> 00:28:03,760
Speaker 2: was getting a deal like no other. So there's not

544
00:28:03,840 --> 00:28:05,440
Speaker 2: a lot of case example that.

545
00:28:05,359 --> 00:28:10,200
Speaker 4: Would like no other until Gilaine, where she's again, Now

546
00:28:10,840 --> 00:28:11,800
Speaker 4: that's so true.

547
00:28:12,040 --> 00:28:17,000
Speaker 2: Who signed that document that allowed for her transfer? Number one,

548
00:28:17,400 --> 00:28:20,479
Speaker 2: the lawyer that spoke to her and interviewed her on

549
00:28:20,520 --> 00:28:24,400
Speaker 2: behalf of the administration days prior, has since come out

550
00:28:24,400 --> 00:28:27,000
Speaker 2: to say he actually didn't review the files prior to

551
00:28:27,000 --> 00:28:27,720
Speaker 2: interviewing her.

552
00:28:28,000 --> 00:28:29,040
Speaker 3: How is that possible?

553
00:28:29,400 --> 00:28:32,399
Speaker 2: How does she get transferred after being charged federally for

554
00:28:32,440 --> 00:28:36,480
Speaker 2: twenty years to where she's at now? So every time

555
00:28:36,520 --> 00:28:39,000
Speaker 2: you think you have the puzzle figured out, which even

556
00:28:39,040 --> 00:28:41,040
Speaker 2: as I'm talking about it, I'm getting riled up, even

557
00:28:41,080 --> 00:28:43,720
Speaker 2: though I was feeling so incredibly optimistic mereor moments ago,

558
00:28:44,320 --> 00:28:47,040
Speaker 2: it seems like it's a loop, right, So wherever you turn,

559
00:28:47,400 --> 00:28:51,720
Speaker 2: there's like another weird little loophole. So I do anticipate

560
00:28:51,760 --> 00:28:53,640
Speaker 2: there'll be more of that to come. Or we all

561
00:28:53,680 --> 00:28:58,000
Speaker 2: just call BS and just say hard, no, hard no, yeah,

562
00:28:58,160 --> 00:28:59,080
Speaker 2: release the files.

563
00:28:59,440 --> 00:28:59,640
Speaker 13: Yeah.

564
00:29:00,160 --> 00:29:03,680
Speaker 8: And with Maxwell, like we were talking about the floor earlier,

565
00:29:03,680 --> 00:29:06,200
Speaker 8: but we know, or you guys have all heard, that's

566
00:29:06,200 --> 00:29:09,000
Speaker 8: several several of those staff members that were the whistleblowers

567
00:29:09,000 --> 00:29:12,400
Speaker 8: that talked about that cushy deal and the puppy therapy,

568
00:29:12,760 --> 00:29:16,480
Speaker 8: those people were all fired because those female communications and

569
00:29:16,640 --> 00:29:20,680
Speaker 8: information were leaked the lawyer said that the prison employees

570
00:29:20,720 --> 00:29:25,520
Speaker 8: were terminated for improper authorization authorized access. So you know,

571
00:29:25,640 --> 00:29:27,800
Speaker 8: even if you speak up and talk about some of this,

572
00:29:28,320 --> 00:29:29,320
Speaker 8: they're repercussions.

573
00:29:29,440 --> 00:29:31,440
Speaker 3: So yeah, that's.

574
00:29:31,120 --> 00:29:36,360
Speaker 4: That's so, they have repercussions. However, Gillaine Maxwell gets all

575
00:29:36,400 --> 00:29:38,360
Speaker 4: of the fluff that we talked about.

576
00:29:38,160 --> 00:29:40,920
Speaker 3: And you know, the meals delivered her and.

577
00:29:40,920 --> 00:29:47,680
Speaker 4: The warden facilitating the flow of paperwork for her legal battles.

578
00:29:48,040 --> 00:29:54,000
Speaker 2: Yes, which is unheard of. These are unprecedented. There's nothing

579
00:29:54,040 --> 00:29:56,600
Speaker 2: to compare it to, which is also pretty wild. It's

580
00:29:56,600 --> 00:29:59,040
Speaker 2: not like, oh, in this other case, in this other place,

581
00:30:00,040 --> 00:30:00,520
Speaker 2: there was like.

582
00:30:00,440 --> 00:30:03,960
Speaker 5: A a former do J guy on one of the

583
00:30:04,000 --> 00:30:06,800
Speaker 5: networks and he was saying he's never seen a deal

584
00:30:07,040 --> 00:30:07,840
Speaker 5: like the one.

585
00:30:07,720 --> 00:30:09,200
Speaker 3: That it's unparalyzed.

586
00:30:09,480 --> 00:30:09,680
Speaker 14: Yeah.

587
00:30:10,120 --> 00:30:12,480
Speaker 2: Wow, So therefore there's nothing to point to, right, And

588
00:30:12,520 --> 00:30:16,440
Speaker 2: that also holds true for the state charges that Epstein

589
00:30:16,520 --> 00:30:18,920
Speaker 2: faced and the sweet deal he got back in twenty

590
00:30:19,000 --> 00:30:22,400
Speaker 2: to twenty oh seven, in two thousand and eight, it's

591
00:30:22,440 --> 00:30:25,520
Speaker 2: just like, it's unparalleled. So therefore, yeah, you can bump

592
00:30:25,600 --> 00:30:28,360
Speaker 2: up against case law all day, all night. We should

593
00:30:28,360 --> 00:30:32,200
Speaker 2: talk to Jarrett Farantino about this. Prosecutor that's coming back

594
00:30:32,200 --> 00:30:34,520
Speaker 2: for our little legal corners. So if we have more

595
00:30:34,600 --> 00:30:38,400
Speaker 2: legal questions like this, we can stack them and make

596
00:30:38,440 --> 00:30:42,320
Speaker 2: sure Jarrett has has some answers for us, because it's

597
00:30:42,320 --> 00:30:43,520
Speaker 2: all real good questions.

598
00:30:43,760 --> 00:30:44,680
Speaker 3: There are some ones.

599
00:30:45,040 --> 00:30:48,040
Speaker 8: And you're bringing up earlier about Epstein's suicide. Am I

600
00:30:48,040 --> 00:30:50,320
Speaker 8: the only one that's worried about hers? There's something weird

601
00:30:50,360 --> 00:30:52,480
Speaker 8: that could happen to her. Not worried like she's a VFAF,

602
00:30:52,600 --> 00:30:55,239
Speaker 8: but but there's something that like I don't know her

603
00:30:55,280 --> 00:30:56,080
Speaker 8: safety would be.

604
00:30:56,400 --> 00:31:00,440
Speaker 2: Well, there's no bars, there's no fences. It's like it's

605
00:31:00,440 --> 00:31:03,040
Speaker 2: pretty wide open net there. So if somebody needed access,

606
00:31:03,080 --> 00:31:05,760
Speaker 2: that's probably one piece of it that was speculated about that.

607
00:31:05,800 --> 00:31:08,960
Speaker 2: We're wishing for that of course, but like that was speculated.

608
00:31:09,000 --> 00:31:11,959
Speaker 2: Like on the one hand, she's no longer in federal prison.

609
00:31:11,960 --> 00:31:14,000
Speaker 2: On the other hand, she's probably a lame duck in

610
00:31:14,040 --> 00:31:17,080
Speaker 2: some ways. I'm sure she's under like the highest protection. Yeah,

611
00:31:17,120 --> 00:31:19,720
Speaker 2: of course we are not. She probably has private security.

612
00:31:20,040 --> 00:31:20,840
Speaker 3: Should be harmed.

613
00:31:21,560 --> 00:31:25,680
Speaker 2: She's like getting hand she's getting fed grapes by a butler.

614
00:31:27,880 --> 00:31:28,800
Speaker 3: And we're switching gears.

615
00:31:28,840 --> 00:31:30,760
Speaker 2: We're going to switch gears off of Epstein for one

616
00:31:30,760 --> 00:31:34,320
Speaker 2: hot second, because there's been these wild new developments in

617
00:31:34,360 --> 00:31:38,040
Speaker 2: the David the pop star case, allegedly, allegedly, allegedly, he

618
00:31:38,360 --> 00:31:43,479
Speaker 2: is being named as a real suspect here, and the

619
00:31:43,520 --> 00:31:48,480
Speaker 2: time potentially of Celeste Reeves's death age fourteen, goes back

620
00:31:48,600 --> 00:31:52,400
Speaker 2: a long time. They're saying as early as body you

621
00:31:52,480 --> 00:31:57,719
Speaker 2: called it spring. Think about that spring. So let's hit

622
00:31:57,800 --> 00:31:58,880
Speaker 2: up at talk back right now.

623
00:31:59,360 --> 00:32:02,520
Speaker 8: My question is, if David is just now named a suspect,

624
00:32:02,760 --> 00:32:03,760
Speaker 8: what took so long?

625
00:32:03,920 --> 00:32:06,920
Speaker 3: And why is he able to walk free?

626
00:32:07,720 --> 00:32:11,800
Speaker 5: Great question, amazing question, actually, and I think I think

627
00:32:11,840 --> 00:32:17,200
Speaker 5: the answer lies in when this happened, right, So it's

628
00:32:17,200 --> 00:32:21,840
Speaker 5: being it's being reported that investigators believe. Let's say it's

629
00:32:21,880 --> 00:32:25,280
Speaker 5: being reported LAPD. You know, I'm using quotes. Your sources

630
00:32:25,440 --> 00:32:28,360
Speaker 5: are saying that, you know, it's likely that her death

631
00:32:28,400 --> 00:32:32,240
Speaker 5: occurred sometime in spring. So let's just let's just use

632
00:32:32,640 --> 00:32:35,800
Speaker 5: March or April as that timeframe, right. That means it's

633
00:32:36,240 --> 00:32:39,240
Speaker 5: that means that you know it was six months, so

634
00:32:39,640 --> 00:32:43,120
Speaker 5: you know six months from ish six months ish, right,

635
00:32:44,160 --> 00:32:47,920
Speaker 5: So that's a lot of time to hide evidence, right,

636
00:32:48,120 --> 00:32:51,400
Speaker 5: That's a lot of time to clean and hide evidence.

637
00:32:51,560 --> 00:32:55,640
Speaker 5: And you know, cover your bases and the police just

638
00:32:55,720 --> 00:32:58,040
Speaker 5: can't arrest you because they think you did something. They

639
00:32:58,040 --> 00:33:01,520
Speaker 5: have to arrest you because they have probable pause. And

640
00:33:01,600 --> 00:33:04,120
Speaker 5: in order to get that probable cause, an investigation has

641
00:33:04,160 --> 00:33:07,160
Speaker 5: to happen, right, and it's gonna it's gonna take a

642
00:33:07,160 --> 00:33:10,280
Speaker 5: while to find those things that they've tried to hide.

643
00:33:10,800 --> 00:33:12,720
Speaker 3: That's what I'm going with. That's what I'm going with.

644
00:33:12,800 --> 00:33:16,440
Speaker 2: That's why why would they even have these rumblings allowed out?

645
00:33:16,600 --> 00:33:20,200
Speaker 2: That seems slightly strategic to me. It's been so hush

646
00:33:20,280 --> 00:33:21,680
Speaker 2: and I actually so quiet.

647
00:33:22,240 --> 00:33:24,040
Speaker 4: Go ahead, Courtney, you wanted to disast well, I was

648
00:33:24,080 --> 00:33:27,200
Speaker 4: just going to say, as body mentioned, this is from

649
00:33:27,680 --> 00:33:32,680
Speaker 4: sources at the LAPD, there is a distinction. This was

650
00:33:32,720 --> 00:33:35,440
Speaker 4: not an official this is this is not an official

651
00:33:35,440 --> 00:33:39,440
Speaker 4: statement period. It has been published, and it is from

652
00:33:39,560 --> 00:33:40,720
Speaker 4: sources at the LAPD.

653
00:33:40,880 --> 00:33:43,760
Speaker 3: We don't know who. It could be the lead investigator,

654
00:33:43,800 --> 00:33:44,840
Speaker 3: it could be the janitor.

655
00:33:45,560 --> 00:33:49,560
Speaker 2: Come on, you guys both know that oftentimes sources from

656
00:33:49,880 --> 00:33:55,320
Speaker 2: law enforcement are planted to that thing. Absolutely the headlines. Frankly,

657
00:33:55,360 --> 00:33:57,880
Speaker 2: I've been surprised that hasn't happened sooner. That's why we've

658
00:33:57,920 --> 00:33:59,680
Speaker 2: all been asking, like this has been going on for

659
00:33:59,720 --> 00:34:00,760
Speaker 2: a long time.

660
00:34:00,800 --> 00:34:02,880
Speaker 3: It's very unusual for they're not even to.

661
00:34:02,840 --> 00:34:06,880
Speaker 2: Be named anybody named as a even a person of interest,

662
00:34:07,400 --> 00:34:12,280
Speaker 2: let alone a suspect. Typically maybe as a strategy, which

663
00:34:12,400 --> 00:34:15,719
Speaker 2: this happens. This is a just this does happen that

664
00:34:15,920 --> 00:34:19,080
Speaker 2: somebody who is a source working on an investigation may

665
00:34:19,120 --> 00:34:24,800
Speaker 2: release little tidbits to the media therefore the public, because

666
00:34:24,800 --> 00:34:28,920
Speaker 2: that could shape either people coming forward or you know,

667
00:34:29,320 --> 00:34:32,560
Speaker 2: false confessions or real confessions, all the things. I have

668
00:34:32,640 --> 00:34:35,720
Speaker 2: found it surprising that somebody has high profile as David

669
00:34:35,760 --> 00:34:39,240
Speaker 2: the pop star who was ripped off of his world tour,

670
00:34:39,760 --> 00:34:43,360
Speaker 2: right that there was no even a person of interest.

671
00:34:43,040 --> 00:34:45,440
Speaker 3: Named right, right, same?

672
00:34:45,960 --> 00:34:48,480
Speaker 5: But I also am kind of like oof, they have

673
00:34:48,560 --> 00:34:51,880
Speaker 5: done that, Like David has money, he could leave, he

674
00:34:51,920 --> 00:34:54,280
Speaker 5: could leave the country, like you know, he could flee,

675
00:34:54,360 --> 00:34:54,880
Speaker 5: he has.

676
00:34:54,880 --> 00:34:56,719
Speaker 3: Means, you know what I mean? Right?

677
00:34:56,760 --> 00:34:58,680
Speaker 5: And I just think it's kind of like, oh, I

678
00:34:58,719 --> 00:35:00,080
Speaker 5: don't know if I don't know if I would have

679
00:35:00,160 --> 00:35:00,480
Speaker 5: done that.

680
00:35:01,360 --> 00:35:03,560
Speaker 8: Is any more of it too recognizable? I mean, I

681
00:35:03,600 --> 00:35:05,959
Speaker 8: guess he's not that we don't all recognize his face,

682
00:35:06,000 --> 00:35:08,719
Speaker 8: but like, I mean, aren't more eyes on you at

683
00:35:08,719 --> 00:35:09,520
Speaker 8: that point in time?

684
00:35:09,680 --> 00:35:12,200
Speaker 5: Like it feels like, yeah, not if I put not

685
00:35:12,280 --> 00:35:14,160
Speaker 5: if I put on a hoodie, it's you know, cold

686
00:35:14,200 --> 00:35:17,120
Speaker 5: out dye your hair, dye your hair, which he is

687
00:35:17,280 --> 00:35:20,600
Speaker 5: known to do. You know, like I don't know, I

688
00:35:20,640 --> 00:35:23,040
Speaker 5: just don't know that I would recognize every celebrity.

689
00:35:23,320 --> 00:35:23,839
Speaker 3: I just don't.

690
00:35:23,840 --> 00:35:26,600
Speaker 2: You know, it does make him a flight risk.

691
00:35:27,120 --> 00:35:29,920
Speaker 4: Yeah, So it is interesting that even though the cause

692
00:35:29,960 --> 00:35:33,680
Speaker 4: and the manner of death they still remain undetermined, but

693
00:35:33,800 --> 00:35:38,040
Speaker 4: the case is now being treated as a potential homicide, right,

694
00:35:38,080 --> 00:35:41,359
Speaker 4: which I mean that did seem boys obviously right from

695
00:35:41,360 --> 00:35:41,960
Speaker 4: the beginning.

696
00:35:42,080 --> 00:35:44,839
Speaker 2: Yeah, right, And maybe this is where the strategy goes in.

697
00:35:44,880 --> 00:35:47,200
Speaker 2: And by way theorizing here, this is not as a

698
00:35:47,280 --> 00:35:50,320
Speaker 2: matter of fact, we do not have any inside sourcing

699
00:35:50,400 --> 00:35:54,279
Speaker 2: outside of this said inside sourcing, but it has been

700
00:35:54,360 --> 00:35:57,040
Speaker 2: reported pretty widely at this point. Otherwise we wouldn't even

701
00:35:57,040 --> 00:35:59,799
Speaker 2: talk about it. All that to be said, isn't that

702
00:36:00,120 --> 00:36:02,720
Speaker 2: of the strategy. Let's put this out there in the press,

703
00:36:03,200 --> 00:36:06,400
Speaker 2: let those headlines lie, and then we'll have our eyes

704
00:36:06,560 --> 00:36:10,480
Speaker 2: on David the pop star and all of his anybody

705
00:36:10,520 --> 00:36:14,120
Speaker 2: in his circle, all eyes on deck to see, like,

706
00:36:14,239 --> 00:36:17,120
Speaker 2: how what do you do? You're being named a person

707
00:36:17,800 --> 00:36:21,080
Speaker 2: of interest? Slash a suspect, which is even a step

708
00:36:21,120 --> 00:36:25,160
Speaker 2: above that that might make you know, people do weird

709
00:36:25,400 --> 00:36:27,440
Speaker 2: things and your phone's are tapped, et cetera.

710
00:36:28,000 --> 00:36:31,920
Speaker 5: Right, can I can I do a little speculation, Yes please?

711
00:36:32,080 --> 00:36:33,920
Speaker 3: Okay, let's speculation alert.

712
00:36:34,200 --> 00:36:37,120
Speaker 5: This is all just my theories and do not reflect

713
00:36:37,239 --> 00:36:39,040
Speaker 5: the station or whatever.

714
00:36:39,080 --> 00:36:41,200
Speaker 3: Okay, we heard the disclaimer at the Begnere.

715
00:36:43,160 --> 00:36:43,399
Speaker 1: Show.

716
00:36:43,640 --> 00:36:44,600
Speaker 3: This is speculation.

717
00:36:45,360 --> 00:36:49,200
Speaker 5: So in these articles it's mentioned that the cause and

718
00:36:49,239 --> 00:36:53,040
Speaker 5: manner of death remain undetermined, and that they believe it

719
00:36:53,120 --> 00:36:55,960
Speaker 5: happened in spring. And they also believe that it's possible

720
00:36:56,120 --> 00:36:59,360
Speaker 5: that David, if he is responsible for this, might have

721
00:36:59,560 --> 00:37:04,120
Speaker 5: had multiple people help him dismember. Okay, that's important. Just

722
00:37:04,280 --> 00:37:08,560
Speaker 5: member celeust, okay, Porcelust, Well, multiple people.

723
00:37:08,719 --> 00:37:08,959
Speaker 3: Right.

724
00:37:09,680 --> 00:37:12,320
Speaker 5: The other day, you know, my friend, the private investigator

725
00:37:12,320 --> 00:37:14,960
Speaker 5: that's working on this case for the landlord, right, he

726
00:37:15,640 --> 00:37:20,480
Speaker 5: tweeted out they're done. They're done, and I was like, hmmm,

727
00:37:21,120 --> 00:37:25,040
Speaker 5: who's they? And I wonder if it's tied to this,

728
00:37:25,480 --> 00:37:27,960
Speaker 5: because you have to remember, he's the one who found

729
00:37:27,960 --> 00:37:30,960
Speaker 5: like this farm type equipment and whatnot.

730
00:37:31,080 --> 00:37:33,520
Speaker 3: It was left in the home, and I just I

731
00:37:33,560 --> 00:37:35,680
Speaker 3: can't help but think it's connected somehow.

732
00:37:35,640 --> 00:37:38,600
Speaker 2: One hundred percent I agree with you, right, yeah, I

733
00:37:38,680 --> 00:37:40,799
Speaker 2: one hundred percent agree with you. But I think that's

734
00:37:40,840 --> 00:37:43,960
Speaker 2: bread crumbs, right, I think I do you I read crumbing. So,

735
00:37:44,560 --> 00:37:47,879
Speaker 2: just for the recap, the landlord that David the pop

736
00:37:47,920 --> 00:37:51,400
Speaker 2: star was renting for from in the Hollywood Hills behind

737
00:37:51,400 --> 00:37:55,040
Speaker 2: the Chateau Marmont, famously for twenty thousand dollars a month,

738
00:37:55,080 --> 00:37:58,840
Speaker 2: if I'm not mistaken, if I remember correctly, that landlord

739
00:37:59,000 --> 00:38:00,759
Speaker 2: was like, look, if there was a murder in this house,

740
00:38:00,880 --> 00:38:02,080
Speaker 2: I need to know what's doing.

741
00:38:02,080 --> 00:38:03,000
Speaker 3: I got to rent this place.

742
00:38:03,480 --> 00:38:07,320
Speaker 2: He hires his own private investigator who just by he

743
00:38:07,520 --> 00:38:13,040
Speaker 2: happenstance body knows through her professional behind the scenes miss

744
00:38:13,080 --> 00:38:16,560
Speaker 2: and yeah, this guy's been pretty effective. He came out

745
00:38:16,560 --> 00:38:19,000
Speaker 2: and said that they found farm equipment or something that

746
00:38:19,080 --> 00:38:22,319
Speaker 2: was something just that you know, things that would maybe

747
00:38:22,360 --> 00:38:26,560
Speaker 2: be scary if you were dismembering, and that he was being,

748
00:38:27,040 --> 00:38:29,600
Speaker 2: you know, fairly actionable with some of his findings.

749
00:38:29,680 --> 00:38:30,000
Speaker 8: He was.

750
00:38:30,080 --> 00:38:32,560
Speaker 2: So for him to tweet that was like tweeting a

751
00:38:32,600 --> 00:38:37,000
Speaker 2: little nugget out to law enforcement.

752
00:38:37,239 --> 00:38:41,200
Speaker 3: Yeah, to the puble right, yeah, yeah.

753
00:38:41,320 --> 00:38:43,240
Speaker 5: So when I when I when I read it yesterday,

754
00:38:43,239 --> 00:38:46,359
Speaker 5: I was like something's happening, like something. But you know,

755
00:38:46,400 --> 00:38:48,520
Speaker 5: he was very vague in his tweet. He didn't say nothing.

756
00:38:48,560 --> 00:38:51,239
Speaker 5: He's not you know, he's not responding to anything about it.

757
00:38:51,280 --> 00:38:53,439
Speaker 5: But he's like, oh man, I wonder if this means

758
00:38:53,480 --> 00:38:55,319
Speaker 5: something under this means something I need.

759
00:38:55,400 --> 00:38:58,080
Speaker 8: Not just playing along with your whole theory, like is

760
00:38:58,120 --> 00:39:00,480
Speaker 8: it possible, like someone said earlier, this could be a

761
00:39:00,480 --> 00:39:03,840
Speaker 8: strategic move, like someone planted that is it to maybe

762
00:39:03,840 --> 00:39:08,359
Speaker 8: get those others, the other people who kind of against him,

763
00:39:08,440 --> 00:39:11,120
Speaker 8: So now make them all you know, someone's.

764
00:39:10,800 --> 00:39:13,799
Speaker 4: Going to keep I mean, I do it. There's a

765
00:39:13,840 --> 00:39:17,480
Speaker 4: phrase body you will likely remember it. It's a phrase

766
00:39:17,920 --> 00:39:21,720
Speaker 4: that the FBI uses. We discussed one case in depth

767
00:39:21,760 --> 00:39:22,320
Speaker 4: on the show.

768
00:39:23,880 --> 00:39:24,399
Speaker 3: Is it the bump?

769
00:39:24,480 --> 00:39:27,239
Speaker 4: Is that when when the FBI or the investigators will

770
00:39:27,400 --> 00:39:30,560
Speaker 4: seed information of like of course, yes, that's what you're

771
00:39:30,640 --> 00:39:34,880
Speaker 4: being looked at, and people get nuts understandably and start

772
00:39:35,360 --> 00:39:37,319
Speaker 4: talking how scary that would be.

773
00:39:37,360 --> 00:39:40,840
Speaker 2: Suddenly they're like naming names and you're like, oh my gosh,

774
00:39:40,840 --> 00:39:41,920
Speaker 2: I'm going to go down.

775
00:39:42,239 --> 00:39:43,160
Speaker 3: No, no, no no.

776
00:39:43,520 --> 00:39:46,880
Speaker 2: So suddenly they run into law enforcement and start confessing,

777
00:39:46,920 --> 00:39:50,319
Speaker 2: and they get immunity deals and they start turning on

778
00:39:50,360 --> 00:39:50,759
Speaker 2: each other.

779
00:39:50,880 --> 00:39:52,840
Speaker 3: Listen, I got this call. He was panicked. I was

780
00:39:52,840 --> 00:39:57,279
Speaker 3: just trying to help him out exactly, yeah, and threatening me.

781
00:39:57,520 --> 00:39:58,520
Speaker 3: I didn't have a choice.

782
00:39:58,560 --> 00:40:00,279
Speaker 2: He was holding a gun to my head if I

783
00:40:00,320 --> 00:40:03,960
Speaker 2: didn't take the farm equipment, and you know, dismember a

784
00:40:04,000 --> 00:40:08,160
Speaker 2: beautiful girl's body, right, you sick. Oh, but it's rare

785
00:40:08,160 --> 00:40:10,719
Speaker 2: to keep a secret for that long in numbers, you know,

786
00:40:10,760 --> 00:40:13,520
Speaker 2: we also see that. True, very rarely can a group

787
00:40:13,560 --> 00:40:16,840
Speaker 2: of people who have committed a crime keep the secret.

788
00:40:16,880 --> 00:40:19,480
Speaker 3: It's pretty rare. True. Usually guilt sets.

789
00:40:19,200 --> 00:40:21,879
Speaker 2: In, you know, thankfully with at least one of them,

790
00:40:22,040 --> 00:40:25,160
Speaker 2: and at some point one of them has a conscience

791
00:40:25,200 --> 00:40:27,279
Speaker 2: and at some point turns the rest of them in

792
00:40:27,480 --> 00:40:31,200
Speaker 2: or turns or gets a sweet deal in order to

793
00:40:31,239 --> 00:40:33,400
Speaker 2: get immunity or a lesser sentence.

794
00:40:34,120 --> 00:40:36,319
Speaker 3: I think this is all strategy. Yeah.

795
00:40:37,080 --> 00:40:38,919
Speaker 2: I think we'll see an arrest by the weekend. Though,

796
00:40:39,400 --> 00:40:42,719
Speaker 2: Oh you what, really, I don't think you've put this

797
00:40:42,840 --> 00:40:45,040
Speaker 2: out there. Yes, you're not ready to play ball.

798
00:40:45,480 --> 00:40:48,000
Speaker 5: If I kind of think they're, they're right now typing

799
00:40:48,080 --> 00:40:49,680
Speaker 5: up that probable cause apt A David to go to

800
00:40:49,880 --> 00:40:51,239
Speaker 5: we have to go in front of a judge and

801
00:40:51,280 --> 00:40:53,800
Speaker 5: they to say this is our probable cause to arrestless

802
00:40:53,800 --> 00:40:56,720
Speaker 5: person on this count right out, this count of murder

803
00:40:56,800 --> 00:41:01,520
Speaker 5: one eighty seven in California, And you know here it

804
00:41:01,600 --> 00:41:02,719
Speaker 5: is maybe maybe.

805
00:41:02,480 --> 00:41:05,200
Speaker 2: That's what they're doing right now, shaken in their boots.

806
00:41:05,480 --> 00:41:08,239
Speaker 2: They all should be shaken in their boots.

807
00:41:08,480 --> 00:41:08,680
Speaker 7: Yeah.

808
00:41:08,719 --> 00:41:11,600
Speaker 4: What do you guys think about this whole David case.

809
00:41:11,600 --> 00:41:14,600
Speaker 4: It's been unfolding now for more than two months since

810
00:41:14,640 --> 00:41:16,040
Speaker 4: we first heard about it.

811
00:41:16,160 --> 00:41:16,680
Speaker 3: Give us a call.

812
00:41:16,719 --> 00:41:18,719
Speaker 4: We're at eighty to eighty three to one crime or

813
00:41:19,360 --> 00:41:22,759
Speaker 4: on the True Crime Tonight portion of the iHeart app.

814
00:41:23,200 --> 00:41:25,160
Speaker 4: You can send us a talk back and we have

815
00:41:25,239 --> 00:41:26,040
Speaker 4: another one now.

816
00:41:27,200 --> 00:41:29,560
Speaker 3: Hi, ladies, It's Stephanie from Pennsylvania.

817
00:41:29,640 --> 00:41:32,279
Speaker 14: I just wanted to throw in a little note. You're

818
00:41:32,320 --> 00:41:36,280
Speaker 14: talking about domestic abuse, and that beautiful woman from Florida

819
00:41:36,400 --> 00:41:40,560
Speaker 14: just called in with the information regarding pets. Listen for

820
00:41:40,680 --> 00:41:43,640
Speaker 14: anybody that has been in an abusive relationship and I have,

821
00:41:44,440 --> 00:41:48,880
Speaker 14: getting help makes the huge difference and your life will change.

822
00:41:50,760 --> 00:41:55,280
Speaker 2: Oh, by the way, great voice, great message, good message. Yes,

823
00:41:55,760 --> 00:42:00,680
Speaker 2: like in tomorrow is a fresh day news story and

824
00:42:00,719 --> 00:42:01,280
Speaker 2: I think.

825
00:42:01,040 --> 00:42:04,480
Speaker 5: You'll be surprised by how many, especially women will stand

826
00:42:04,520 --> 00:42:06,600
Speaker 5: by you. You know what, I mean and help lift

827
00:42:06,640 --> 00:42:08,839
Speaker 5: you up. I really believe. I really believe that.

828
00:42:09,280 --> 00:42:11,680
Speaker 3: I know that. Y Yeah, I know that too.

829
00:42:11,840 --> 00:42:16,520
Speaker 5: I've experienced it very recently actually, and I think you'll

830
00:42:16,520 --> 00:42:18,279
Speaker 5: be surprised by the number of people that will help

831
00:42:18,320 --> 00:42:18,879
Speaker 5: lift you up.

832
00:42:19,840 --> 00:42:21,719
Speaker 2: And there's amount of people who will say like, I

833
00:42:21,760 --> 00:42:27,400
Speaker 2: hear you, sister, I beg yeah, exactly, Oh my gosh,

834
00:42:27,400 --> 00:42:28,279
Speaker 2: tell the story again.

835
00:42:28,400 --> 00:42:32,080
Speaker 3: You want me to tell? Yes, guys, ready, okay, all right,

836
00:42:32,120 --> 00:42:32,520
Speaker 3: here we go.

837
00:42:34,120 --> 00:42:35,880
Speaker 5: There's a man and he's walking down the street and

838
00:42:35,880 --> 00:42:37,880
Speaker 5: he falls in this hole and he's like, oh my god,

839
00:42:37,960 --> 00:42:39,200
Speaker 5: I'm in this hole. How am I going to get

840
00:42:39,200 --> 00:42:41,000
Speaker 5: out of here? He can't get out. He's trying, he's

841
00:42:41,040 --> 00:42:43,560
Speaker 5: clinging to the mud. He can't get out. A doctor

842
00:42:43,600 --> 00:42:45,799
Speaker 5: walks by and he's like, hey, doc, I'm down in

843
00:42:45,840 --> 00:42:48,000
Speaker 5: this hole. Can you get me out of here? The

844
00:42:48,080 --> 00:42:50,319
Speaker 5: doctor writes a prescription and throws down in the hole,

845
00:42:50,440 --> 00:42:51,279
Speaker 5: and our guy's.

846
00:42:51,080 --> 00:42:52,799
Speaker 3: Like, what what am I supposed to do with this?

847
00:42:52,960 --> 00:42:54,920
Speaker 3: I can't get out of this hole with this. A

848
00:42:55,000 --> 00:42:57,959
Speaker 3: priest walks by, Hey, father, get me out of this hole.

849
00:42:58,000 --> 00:42:59,439
Speaker 3: What can you know? Help? Help help?

850
00:42:59,840 --> 00:43:03,000
Speaker 5: The father says a prayer and keeps walking. The guy's like, well,

851
00:43:03,000 --> 00:43:05,160
Speaker 5: that didn't do me any good. And then his friend,

852
00:43:05,280 --> 00:43:08,200
Speaker 5: his friend walks by and he's like, hey, pal, I'm

853
00:43:08,200 --> 00:43:10,720
Speaker 5: in this hole. Help I need out of this hole.

854
00:43:10,800 --> 00:43:13,680
Speaker 5: And his friend jumps in the hole and the guy

855
00:43:13,760 --> 00:43:16,160
Speaker 5: our guys like dude, why did you jump in the hole.

856
00:43:16,239 --> 00:43:19,000
Speaker 5: Now we're both down here, and the friend looks at

857
00:43:19,080 --> 00:43:20,920
Speaker 5: him and says, yeah, but I've been here before and

858
00:43:20,960 --> 00:43:26,120
Speaker 5: I know the way out. I love that, and I

859
00:43:26,160 --> 00:43:29,080
Speaker 5: think that's I think it's appropriate for this kind of situation, right.

860
00:43:29,120 --> 00:43:30,839
Speaker 5: I think a lot of women have been through this,

861
00:43:31,440 --> 00:43:34,280
Speaker 5: and there's power and numbers and we know the way out.

862
00:43:35,120 --> 00:43:36,200
Speaker 3: So I've covered and.

863
00:43:37,719 --> 00:43:37,879
Speaker 4: Time.

864
00:43:38,320 --> 00:43:41,799
Speaker 2: That story's one of my favorites, so good. I've tried

865
00:43:41,800 --> 00:43:43,960
Speaker 2: to tell it on your behalf and quote.

866
00:43:43,640 --> 00:43:47,799
Speaker 3: You, and then I like, screw it up. Irishmen walking

867
00:43:47,840 --> 00:43:51,120
Speaker 3: to a bar, it's like.

868
00:43:52,440 --> 00:43:57,360
Speaker 8: They were like, wait, what never mind.

869
00:43:57,480 --> 00:44:04,320
Speaker 3: The famous parable from West Wings so powerful and yeah.

870
00:44:04,440 --> 00:44:07,160
Speaker 2: But unless people are talking, you don't know that there's

871
00:44:07,280 --> 00:44:09,479
Speaker 2: more voices and there's more help than you think.

872
00:44:10,120 --> 00:44:11,319
Speaker 3: And I think that's the name of the game.

873
00:44:11,680 --> 00:44:14,920
Speaker 5: No shame, literally, no shame. None of it is your fault,

874
00:44:15,280 --> 00:44:15,719
Speaker 5: none of it.

875
00:44:16,880 --> 00:44:20,920
Speaker 4: And the fact that shame dissipates once you are able

876
00:44:21,000 --> 00:44:23,840
Speaker 4: to share and put words to it and breed life

877
00:44:24,400 --> 00:44:27,080
Speaker 4: because shame and Stephanie always says, shame grows in the

878
00:44:27,160 --> 00:44:32,040
Speaker 4: dark and his secrets, and I you know, I think

879
00:44:32,120 --> 00:44:33,920
Speaker 4: most of us can think back to times in our

880
00:44:33,960 --> 00:44:37,759
Speaker 4: personal lives when we've done whatever your shameful thing is

881
00:44:38,400 --> 00:44:41,600
Speaker 4: and then you say it, and there's just such power

882
00:44:41,840 --> 00:44:44,160
Speaker 4: in being heard and received.

883
00:44:45,239 --> 00:44:46,520
Speaker 3: And I've also never.

884
00:44:48,360 --> 00:44:50,840
Speaker 4: As scared as I've been in any of those situations.

885
00:44:50,880 --> 00:44:54,640
Speaker 4: The relief and the support of people who understand because

886
00:44:54,680 --> 00:44:58,600
Speaker 4: we've all been somewhere, all been somewhere.

887
00:44:58,719 --> 00:45:00,560
Speaker 3: So yeah, just.

888
00:45:00,600 --> 00:45:03,680
Speaker 2: Raise your hand if you've been there. If you screwed up, royally,

889
00:45:03,960 --> 00:45:08,360
Speaker 2: raise your hand. If you've you know, done things, changed things,

890
00:45:08,520 --> 00:45:13,120
Speaker 2: you know, healed things. Yeah, but it's it's powerful stuff.

891
00:45:13,120 --> 00:45:15,040
Speaker 2: So I'm just proud that everyone's talking.

892
00:45:15,680 --> 00:45:18,360
Speaker 3: Yeah, thank you for that talkback. It was really good. Yeah,

893
00:45:18,400 --> 00:45:20,560
Speaker 3: thank you. I love it. I love you. Do we

894
00:45:20,600 --> 00:45:21,680
Speaker 3: have time for one more out of.

895
00:45:24,480 --> 00:45:27,480
Speaker 6: Hi, guys, it's cricket in Connecticut. I got to tell you,

896
00:45:27,680 --> 00:45:31,719
Speaker 6: I love listening to you right now. You guys are

897
00:45:31,760 --> 00:45:36,120
Speaker 6: talking about bodies chat Mokey with the bell on the collar,

898
00:45:36,280 --> 00:45:38,640
Speaker 6: and I have to tell you that my dog Rocky

899
00:45:39,239 --> 00:45:41,480
Speaker 6: has to have a bell on his collar because he

900
00:45:41,640 --> 00:45:45,920
Speaker 6: kept bringing in bunnies squirrels.

901
00:45:46,560 --> 00:45:47,080
Speaker 11: Awesome.

902
00:45:48,200 --> 00:45:50,800
Speaker 6: He's a hunter and he brings them.

903
00:45:50,600 --> 00:45:58,959
Speaker 3: In cricket such uncomfortable laughter. I would freak out, God

904
00:45:59,400 --> 00:46:01,080
Speaker 3: would freak out.

905
00:46:01,160 --> 00:46:04,080
Speaker 5: I mean, these lizards that Mochi brings in are huge,

906
00:46:05,000 --> 00:46:06,320
Speaker 5: the lizards like did you see.

907
00:46:06,120 --> 00:46:10,160
Speaker 2: The lizards falling out of the sky from the rain? Listen,

908
00:46:10,160 --> 00:46:13,480
Speaker 2: I digress. I don't want to get up on crickets.

909
00:46:14,560 --> 00:46:17,319
Speaker 3: It is so funny having the bell. Puppies on the

910
00:46:17,360 --> 00:46:19,640
Speaker 3: bell is so cute. I think it's so cute.

911
00:46:19,840 --> 00:46:23,240
Speaker 5: Yeah, because it prevents them from the ability to sneak

912
00:46:23,400 --> 00:46:26,120
Speaker 5: up on their prey, right, so the prey can run away.

913
00:46:26,200 --> 00:46:27,520
Speaker 5: That's why you got to have the bell.

914
00:46:29,080 --> 00:46:32,960
Speaker 3: Always, like a bell everywhere.

915
00:46:33,040 --> 00:46:37,360
Speaker 4: Yeah, I'd rather a bunny carcass. Well, listen, stick around

916
00:46:37,520 --> 00:46:40,000
Speaker 4: because at the top of the hour we're moving on.

917
00:46:40,160 --> 00:46:42,399
Speaker 3: We've got talkbacks on Brian Walsh.

918
00:46:42,760 --> 00:46:47,040
Speaker 4: You have some great insights and we have an interesting

919
00:46:47,080 --> 00:46:50,160
Speaker 4: thing about something going on in Oklahoma and sort of

920
00:46:50,200 --> 00:46:53,480
Speaker 4: an odd sentence there. Keep it here at your Crime Tonight.

921
00:47:04,040 --> 00:47:07,120
Speaker 2: Welcome back to True Crime tonight on iHeartRadio, We're talking

922
00:47:07,160 --> 00:47:08,400
Speaker 2: true crime all the time.

923
00:47:08,600 --> 00:47:10,840
Speaker 3: I'm Stephanie here with Courtney and Body.

924
00:47:10,920 --> 00:47:13,799
Speaker 2: And if you have missed any of the show No

925
00:47:13,880 --> 00:47:16,120
Speaker 2: Big Deal, you can catch us right after as a podcast.

926
00:47:16,160 --> 00:47:17,760
Speaker 3: And remember it's Talk Back Tuesday.

927
00:47:17,840 --> 00:47:20,719
Speaker 2: So we are excited to hear from you on a

928
00:47:20,840 --> 00:47:23,040
Speaker 2: night of so many big developments. So if you have

929
00:47:23,200 --> 00:47:27,760
Speaker 2: any input or thoughts on the ongoings today on Capitol

930
00:47:27,800 --> 00:47:29,680
Speaker 2: Hill regarding the Epstein.

931
00:47:29,280 --> 00:47:32,160
Speaker 3: Files, will they finally be released?

932
00:47:32,400 --> 00:47:35,600
Speaker 2: I think yes. I'm curious to hear what you think

933
00:47:35,640 --> 00:47:37,480
Speaker 2: as well. And also there have been a lot of

934
00:47:37,520 --> 00:47:42,080
Speaker 2: new updates. David the pop star being named potentially it's

935
00:47:42,160 --> 00:47:45,760
Speaker 2: being reported as a suspect. Will there be an arrest?

936
00:47:46,320 --> 00:47:51,120
Speaker 2: And then these major developments in this wild Brian Walsh

937
00:47:51,160 --> 00:47:55,320
Speaker 2: case that Body's been covering so closely, accused wife killer,

938
00:47:55,480 --> 00:48:00,720
Speaker 2: I might add and Body fill us in today with Gangbusters.

939
00:48:00,239 --> 00:48:01,120
Speaker 3: It was yeah.

940
00:48:01,160 --> 00:48:05,400
Speaker 5: So Brian Walsh has pled guilty to misleading police. He

941
00:48:05,440 --> 00:48:10,080
Speaker 5: has three charges okay, misleading police and illegally disposing of

942
00:48:10,120 --> 00:48:14,080
Speaker 5: his wife, Anna Walsh's body, even though he continues to

943
00:48:14,120 --> 00:48:17,800
Speaker 5: maintain his innocent in the first charge on the first

944
00:48:17,840 --> 00:48:21,520
Speaker 5: degree murder. The trial is set to begin in December.

945
00:48:22,200 --> 00:48:24,319
Speaker 5: So Anna Walsh, She's a thirty nine year old mother

946
00:48:24,360 --> 00:48:26,680
Speaker 5: of three. She vanished on New Year's Day of twenty

947
00:48:26,719 --> 00:48:32,000
Speaker 5: twenty three, prompting an investigation that uncovered blood, damaged knives, trash,

948
00:48:32,040 --> 00:48:35,440
Speaker 5: bags of evidence, and you know, disturbing Google searches that

949
00:48:36,000 --> 00:48:39,879
Speaker 5: prosecutors attribute to her husband, Brian Walsh. Her body has

950
00:48:40,040 --> 00:48:43,480
Speaker 5: never been recovered. He was charged later that month of

951
00:48:43,560 --> 00:48:47,880
Speaker 5: twenty twenty three with her murder, misleading police, and improper

952
00:48:47,920 --> 00:48:52,000
Speaker 5: conveyance of a human body. In court documents, investigator said

953
00:48:52,000 --> 00:48:54,239
Speaker 5: that Anna was having an affair before her death and

954
00:48:54,280 --> 00:48:57,320
Speaker 5: had told a friend she planned to leave her husband.

955
00:48:57,960 --> 00:49:02,080
Speaker 5: Investigator say Brian's Internet history include things like how long

956
00:49:02,120 --> 00:49:05,879
Speaker 5: before a body starts to smell? And dismemberment and best

957
00:49:05,880 --> 00:49:09,040
Speaker 5: ways to dispose of a body. Well, the jury selection

958
00:49:09,200 --> 00:49:09,920
Speaker 5: began today.

959
00:49:10,000 --> 00:49:12,200
Speaker 3: There was today. It was a big day. He was guilty.

960
00:49:13,200 --> 00:49:14,479
Speaker 3: He pled guilty to the.

961
00:49:14,560 --> 00:49:17,600
Speaker 5: To the disposing of her body, and he pled guilty

962
00:49:17,600 --> 00:49:21,120
Speaker 5: to lyne to police about it. But he maintains his

963
00:49:21,200 --> 00:49:24,960
Speaker 5: innocence in this first degree murder charge.

964
00:49:25,120 --> 00:49:29,600
Speaker 4: So declare if I'm understanding you correctly. He's like I

965
00:49:29,640 --> 00:49:31,759
Speaker 4: had nothing to do with the murder. I came upon

966
00:49:32,160 --> 00:49:36,440
Speaker 4: my missing deceased wife's body and was like, yo.

967
00:49:36,600 --> 00:49:39,480
Speaker 3: Let me dismember her. That's what he's saying.

968
00:49:39,719 --> 00:49:42,120
Speaker 5: Okay, yeah, I think what they're going to try to do,

969
00:49:42,600 --> 00:49:44,360
Speaker 5: I mean, I don't know, but I think, you know,

970
00:49:44,440 --> 00:49:46,200
Speaker 5: this is possibly a strategy.

971
00:49:46,239 --> 00:49:48,880
Speaker 3: I'm hearing. I'm hearing conflicting information.

972
00:49:49,080 --> 00:49:53,040
Speaker 5: So I'm hearing on from some people in the law

973
00:49:53,080 --> 00:49:57,680
Speaker 5: community that the jury will not hear that he pled

974
00:49:57,719 --> 00:49:59,759
Speaker 5: guilty to these crimes, and that they're only going to

975
00:49:59,840 --> 00:50:02,120
Speaker 5: he or that he's been charged with first to free murder.

976
00:50:02,680 --> 00:50:03,800
Speaker 3: If that's the case.

977
00:50:04,000 --> 00:50:05,879
Speaker 5: If that's true, and this is something I really want

978
00:50:05,920 --> 00:50:09,200
Speaker 5: to talk to Jarrett Farantino about, you know, and he's

979
00:50:09,239 --> 00:50:10,719
Speaker 5: going to be on our show tomorrow, I think.

980
00:50:10,719 --> 00:50:13,759
Speaker 3: Is that right now? To legal way, So I'm gonna

981
00:50:13,800 --> 00:50:16,000
Speaker 3: grill Jared about this, Okay. So here's the thing.

982
00:50:17,000 --> 00:50:21,040
Speaker 5: If the jury does not hear that he pled guilty

983
00:50:21,080 --> 00:50:25,400
Speaker 5: to those disposing of her body, and uh, you know

984
00:50:26,080 --> 00:50:29,600
Speaker 5: that they he lied to police, are they it's going

985
00:50:29,640 --> 00:50:33,520
Speaker 5: to admit a lot of evidence against him.

986
00:50:33,600 --> 00:50:38,160
Speaker 3: It's going to admit yes, can you say that again? Please?

987
00:50:38,840 --> 00:50:41,880
Speaker 5: It's being reported by some people in the law community

988
00:50:41,960 --> 00:50:45,160
Speaker 5: that the charges that he's pled guilty to are not

989
00:50:45,200 --> 00:50:47,120
Speaker 5: going to be heard by the jury. So they're not

990
00:50:47,160 --> 00:50:49,840
Speaker 5: going to hear that he pled guilty to those crimes. Okay,

991
00:50:50,520 --> 00:50:52,160
Speaker 5: So well, that's what.

992
00:50:52,120 --> 00:50:52,680
Speaker 3: I want to know.

993
00:50:53,040 --> 00:50:56,600
Speaker 5: I can't believe that, I because it's related to the

994
00:50:57,080 --> 00:50:59,920
Speaker 5: charge that he still has on his on his record.

995
00:51:00,080 --> 00:51:02,000
Speaker 5: Know this first agree murder charge. I would imagine a

996
00:51:02,080 --> 00:51:04,760
Speaker 5: jury would hear it, and I'm hearing that they won't

997
00:51:04,760 --> 00:51:05,160
Speaker 5: hear it.

998
00:51:05,480 --> 00:51:06,680
Speaker 3: So this is interesting.

999
00:51:06,840 --> 00:51:09,120
Speaker 2: So you could be still up for the murder of

1000
00:51:09,160 --> 00:51:14,319
Speaker 2: a human but have confessed to the dismemberment of that

1001
00:51:14,440 --> 00:51:18,440
Speaker 2: human's body, but that information may not be heard by

1002
00:51:18,440 --> 00:51:21,520
Speaker 2: the same jury that you're up for the murder charge with.

1003
00:51:22,040 --> 00:51:25,319
Speaker 5: Right, So it like, for instance, like you know him

1004
00:51:25,400 --> 00:51:28,719
Speaker 5: shopping for you know, tarp back, you know tarps and

1005
00:51:28,719 --> 00:51:32,160
Speaker 5: things like that, the blood wood dumpsters, the rug.

1006
00:51:32,360 --> 00:51:36,560
Speaker 3: Oh, the rug and the dumpster by his mom's house. Right. Oh,

1007
00:51:36,840 --> 00:51:40,480
Speaker 3: they're suggesting that that would not then be admissible.

1008
00:51:41,000 --> 00:51:44,120
Speaker 5: That's what I'm hearing. Again, I can't imagine this to

1009
00:51:44,160 --> 00:51:46,520
Speaker 5: be true, but it makes a.

1010
00:51:46,480 --> 00:51:49,680
Speaker 2: Little bit of sense. It's confessing to that. It almost

1011
00:51:49,680 --> 00:51:50,640
Speaker 2: takes that information.

1012
00:51:50,880 --> 00:51:51,479
Speaker 3: It takes it.

1013
00:51:51,520 --> 00:51:54,799
Speaker 5: Off of the table to be presented in court. And

1014
00:51:54,840 --> 00:51:58,120
Speaker 5: this is why this is a strategy, right, this is

1015
00:51:58,160 --> 00:52:00,680
Speaker 5: a legal strategy, and I just can't believe it to

1016
00:52:00,719 --> 00:52:02,759
Speaker 5: be true. So I did some research because I'm like,

1017
00:52:02,800 --> 00:52:06,840
Speaker 5: what and my understanding of the law in Massachusetts is

1018
00:52:06,880 --> 00:52:10,560
Speaker 5: that the jury will hear this information because it's in

1019
00:52:10,600 --> 00:52:15,120
Speaker 5: relation to the murder charge. Okay, and he pled guilty

1020
00:52:15,120 --> 00:52:19,279
Speaker 5: to that. But other people really familiar by the way

1021
00:52:19,480 --> 00:52:22,960
Speaker 5: lawyers that have covered Karen Reid's trial, are saying, no,

1022
00:52:23,520 --> 00:52:25,759
Speaker 5: they're not going to hear that he pled guilty to this.

1023
00:52:25,800 --> 00:52:28,400
Speaker 5: So we're going to get clarification on this tomorrow from Jarrett,

1024
00:52:28,400 --> 00:52:31,840
Speaker 5: because from the horse's mouth, because it's really interesting. But

1025
00:52:32,080 --> 00:52:36,200
Speaker 5: in other news, in the same case, jury selection began today, Right,

1026
00:52:36,760 --> 00:52:40,120
Speaker 5: Jury selection began on the murder count. The court prepared

1027
00:52:40,160 --> 00:52:43,320
Speaker 5: to question about seventy potential members each day. The goals

1028
00:52:43,360 --> 00:52:46,840
Speaker 5: to have twelve jurors and four alternate seated for the

1029
00:52:46,880 --> 00:52:51,040
Speaker 5: trial before Thanksgiving. And guess what they already selected nine?

1030
00:52:51,640 --> 00:52:53,360
Speaker 5: What selected?

1031
00:52:53,440 --> 00:52:53,600
Speaker 4: Nine?

1032
00:52:53,680 --> 00:52:55,000
Speaker 3: Yeah?

1033
00:52:55,239 --> 00:52:58,440
Speaker 5: The judges going to refer or tell you know, the

1034
00:52:58,520 --> 00:53:02,800
Speaker 5: jury that anyone selected will be ordered to avoid consuming

1035
00:53:02,840 --> 00:53:05,879
Speaker 5: news and social media platforms for the duration, so.

1036
00:53:05,920 --> 00:53:08,560
Speaker 2: They're not sequestered, and I always find that strange.

1037
00:53:08,600 --> 00:53:09,520
Speaker 4: Also the.

1038
00:53:11,200 --> 00:53:13,880
Speaker 3: Weapon rock do you have to live under too?

1039
00:53:15,360 --> 00:53:18,760
Speaker 4: Yeah, I'm surprised that they already were able to seat

1040
00:53:18,840 --> 00:53:22,600
Speaker 4: nine nine. This particularly in Massachusetts, has been.

1041
00:53:23,480 --> 00:53:27,640
Speaker 5: Huge, right, So, Brian, he hasn't been sentenced obviously on

1042
00:53:27,680 --> 00:53:29,520
Speaker 5: the two charges that he pled guilty for.

1043
00:53:30,800 --> 00:53:31,439
Speaker 3: The judge said.

1044
00:53:31,480 --> 00:53:34,600
Speaker 5: Family members of Anna, she's the victim in this case,

1045
00:53:35,440 --> 00:53:37,880
Speaker 5: have asked to address the court before sentencing. And obviously

1046
00:53:37,880 --> 00:53:39,880
Speaker 5: they're going to give a victim impact statement on the

1047
00:53:39,880 --> 00:53:41,440
Speaker 5: dismembering and him lying.

1048
00:53:41,200 --> 00:53:43,400
Speaker 3: To the police. He's going to have sentencing for that.

1049
00:53:43,440 --> 00:53:47,000
Speaker 5: The maximum sentence for the witness intimidating the witness charges,

1050
00:53:47,080 --> 00:53:50,600
Speaker 5: I'm sorry. The maximum sentence on these charges is ten

1051
00:53:50,600 --> 00:53:54,400
Speaker 5: to twenty years in prison, and the maximum sentence on

1052
00:53:54,640 --> 00:54:01,280
Speaker 5: the body charge is three years, So that possible, I know,

1053
00:54:01,640 --> 00:54:04,279
Speaker 5: and listen, isn't Proctor And again, if you're just paying

1054
00:54:04,280 --> 00:54:07,000
Speaker 5: attention for the first time, Michael Proctor is the person

1055
00:54:07,080 --> 00:54:09,520
Speaker 5: who was the lead investigator in the Karen Reid case.

1056
00:54:09,600 --> 00:54:14,440
Speaker 2: Obviously, he was thrown out of his position and is

1057
00:54:14,520 --> 00:54:19,080
Speaker 2: no longer an investigator for the Canton Police he's controversial,

1058
00:54:19,080 --> 00:54:23,960
Speaker 2: but wouldn't he say, look, my previous work is untarnished.

1059
00:54:24,680 --> 00:54:27,440
Speaker 2: I mean, he did have a personal relationship to Brian,

1060
00:54:28,280 --> 00:54:30,759
Speaker 2: you know, like in the Karen Reid case, it was

1061
00:54:30,880 --> 00:54:34,600
Speaker 2: very personal. He was there that night. These were buddies

1062
00:54:34,680 --> 00:54:37,880
Speaker 2: of his. The victim was one of his buds and

1063
00:54:37,920 --> 00:54:41,759
Speaker 2: comrades from more likely that was not the you know,

1064
00:54:41,800 --> 00:54:44,040
Speaker 2: even as I'm saying it, I just put myself out

1065
00:54:44,040 --> 00:54:45,080
Speaker 2: of it, right.

1066
00:54:44,960 --> 00:54:49,080
Speaker 4: Because yeah, not even absent all of those, but in

1067
00:54:49,120 --> 00:54:52,120
Speaker 4: spite of all of those, he should have had respect

1068
00:54:52,120 --> 00:54:56,040
Speaker 4: for the law and as an investigator to do a proper,

1069
00:54:56,080 --> 00:54:59,160
Speaker 4: full and thorough investigation and or recuse himself.

1070
00:54:59,360 --> 00:55:04,279
Speaker 3: Yeah, exactly. So there's yeah, wow. Yeah.

1071
00:55:04,320 --> 00:55:08,200
Speaker 5: So it was a big day in Massachusetts Bay. And

1072
00:55:08,520 --> 00:55:12,160
Speaker 5: that's the update on Brian Walsh. If you have, you know, listen,

1073
00:55:12,440 --> 00:55:13,880
Speaker 5: if you're a lawyer out there and you want to

1074
00:55:13,880 --> 00:55:15,920
Speaker 5: call in and give me some information about what's going

1075
00:55:15,960 --> 00:55:18,000
Speaker 5: to be presented as a jury, give us a call

1076
00:55:18,000 --> 00:55:20,160
Speaker 5: at eighty eight eight thirty one crime or hit us

1077
00:55:20,200 --> 00:55:23,720
Speaker 5: on the talkbacks because it is talkback Tuesday, right, talkback Tuesday.

1078
00:55:23,960 --> 00:55:25,000
Speaker 5: Do you want to go to a talk back?

1079
00:55:25,400 --> 00:55:25,640
Speaker 2: Yes?

1080
00:55:27,360 --> 00:55:31,440
Speaker 12: Hey, guys, this is Mary Kay and Cincinnati, Ohio. Again,

1081
00:55:31,960 --> 00:55:33,799
Speaker 12: I'm going to keep saying she is, even though I

1082
00:55:33,880 --> 00:55:39,040
Speaker 12: don't have martus absolutely beautiful accent. I just wanted to

1083
00:55:39,080 --> 00:55:41,200
Speaker 12: throw out there first fall. I love the show. I

1084
00:55:41,200 --> 00:55:44,480
Speaker 12: love listening to you guys. I really connect with Body

1085
00:55:44,520 --> 00:55:44,799
Speaker 12: a lot.

1086
00:55:45,480 --> 00:55:47,000
Speaker 3: But a question I had.

1087
00:55:46,880 --> 00:55:49,759
Speaker 12: For you guys, is there a time that you can

1088
00:55:50,080 --> 00:55:54,640
Speaker 12: recall that the justice system or you felt that the

1089
00:55:54,840 --> 00:55:58,960
Speaker 12: justice system failed in some way? And what is that case?

1090
00:55:59,520 --> 00:56:03,759
Speaker 3: Oh, I have a good question. Yeah, I was going

1091
00:56:03,840 --> 00:56:04,719
Speaker 3: to say, where do we start?

1092
00:56:04,760 --> 00:56:09,440
Speaker 2: By the way, Yeah, we connect with Body too.

1093
00:56:10,680 --> 00:56:12,000
Speaker 3: Thank you guys. That made me smile.

1094
00:56:12,560 --> 00:56:12,799
Speaker 13: Yeah.

1095
00:56:13,000 --> 00:56:17,520
Speaker 3: No, who wants to go first? Mine's big. I don't know.

1096
00:56:17,560 --> 00:56:19,880
Speaker 4: Maybe I'll stay mine and we can honestly decide if

1097
00:56:19,880 --> 00:56:21,960
Speaker 4: we want to go through it, because now I'm thinking

1098
00:56:22,000 --> 00:56:25,360
Speaker 4: it should be even another day from now a segment.

1099
00:56:25,520 --> 00:56:30,920
Speaker 4: So my case has to do with the LAPD rampart scandal.

1100
00:56:30,960 --> 00:56:34,320
Speaker 4: Are you guys familiar familiar with that? I had a

1101
00:56:34,360 --> 00:56:37,600
Speaker 4: feeling you were going to say that. Okay, so Stefan yes,

1102
00:56:37,640 --> 00:56:40,680
Speaker 4: and Bodies less familiar. So it's one of the literally

1103
00:56:40,719 --> 00:56:44,560
Speaker 4: most extensive police corruption cases in the history of our

1104
00:56:44,680 --> 00:56:50,719
Speaker 4: United States. It includes it's so complicated. It includes wrongful convictions,

1105
00:56:50,760 --> 00:56:55,680
Speaker 4: planted evidence, it includes perjury, it includes excessive force. And

1106
00:56:56,000 --> 00:56:59,799
Speaker 4: this happened in Los Angeles throughout the late nineties and

1107
00:56:59,800 --> 00:57:02,799
Speaker 4: earth two thousands. If you guys are familiar with the

1108
00:57:02,840 --> 00:57:05,920
Speaker 4: show it starred Michael Chickliss called The Shield.

1109
00:57:06,320 --> 00:57:07,240
Speaker 3: I loved that show.

1110
00:57:07,760 --> 00:57:11,319
Speaker 4: I love the Shield. Yeah, loved the Shield. Well, The

1111
00:57:11,360 --> 00:57:15,560
Speaker 4: Shield was based on this scandal and was originally going

1112
00:57:15,640 --> 00:57:17,080
Speaker 4: to be called Rampart.

1113
00:57:17,800 --> 00:57:21,400
Speaker 3: Was really and yes it was oh wow.

1114
00:57:20,800 --> 00:57:24,200
Speaker 4: So okay, So I'll give you one just the very

1115
00:57:24,280 --> 00:57:27,800
Speaker 4: very brief background. So this is basically this occurred from

1116
00:57:27,920 --> 00:57:30,680
Speaker 4: ninety five to two thousand and one, and it was

1117
00:57:30,720 --> 00:57:36,680
Speaker 4: in Los Angeles' Community Resources against Street Hoodlum's unit Crash,

1118
00:57:36,800 --> 00:57:41,080
Speaker 4: the Crash Unit, and it was the Rampart Division. So

1119
00:57:41,320 --> 00:57:45,360
Speaker 4: the main guy is this sky officer Perez, and in

1120
00:57:45,480 --> 00:57:48,480
Speaker 4: nineteen ninety eight, his arrest for stealing cocaine from an

1121
00:57:48,520 --> 00:57:55,120
Speaker 4: evidence locker locker ultimately exposed such widespread corruption all over

1122
00:57:55,160 --> 00:58:00,840
Speaker 4: the place. So this Crash unit, and this was for context,

1123
00:58:00,880 --> 00:58:04,680
Speaker 4: this was the height of Los Angeles' gang wars, and

1124
00:58:04,720 --> 00:58:06,560
Speaker 4: this is one of the anti gang units. So you

1125
00:58:06,600 --> 00:58:09,360
Speaker 4: can also kind of understand the pressure that must have

1126
00:58:09,360 --> 00:58:12,440
Speaker 4: been on them politically because everyone this was all what

1127
00:58:12,480 --> 00:58:15,440
Speaker 4: people were talking about it. So the crash Unit was

1128
00:58:15,440 --> 00:58:17,760
Speaker 4: meant to fight the gangs, the bloods, and the crips.

1129
00:58:17,800 --> 00:58:19,800
Speaker 3: If you guys remember the blue and the red that

1130
00:58:20,120 --> 00:58:21,120
Speaker 3: was all short used.

1131
00:58:23,560 --> 00:58:29,840
Speaker 4: Well, they operated this crash unit with literally military tactics,

1132
00:58:30,280 --> 00:58:35,360
Speaker 4: very minimal oversight, and they really just went any means

1133
00:58:35,440 --> 00:58:42,400
Speaker 4: necessary culture so that included falsifying reports, planting evidence, using

1134
00:58:42,400 --> 00:58:48,800
Speaker 4: a legal force, all of this to secure arrests. So anyway,

1135
00:58:48,880 --> 00:58:50,560
Speaker 4: shall I stop there because I know we have a

1136
00:58:50,600 --> 00:58:52,280
Speaker 4: lot to get to, but I do want to come

1137
00:58:52,320 --> 00:58:54,760
Speaker 4: back and talk about the details another time.

1138
00:58:55,240 --> 00:58:59,640
Speaker 3: Yeah, we should definitely do a larger unpack of I

1139
00:58:59,680 --> 00:59:02,440
Speaker 3: mean same, let's do a deep scope wild.

1140
00:59:02,720 --> 00:59:06,640
Speaker 5: Yeah, my, the case, I think that you know, the

1141
00:59:06,840 --> 00:59:10,520
Speaker 5: system or the justice system didn't provide justices Emmett till

1142
00:59:11,440 --> 00:59:13,480
Speaker 5: and I think you know that's you know, that is

1143
00:59:13,520 --> 00:59:15,440
Speaker 5: a case. I think that I think sits all with

1144
00:59:15,520 --> 00:59:19,560
Speaker 5: all of us uneasy right, and you know, his murderers,

1145
00:59:19,560 --> 00:59:23,960
Speaker 5: his kidnappers and murderers were acquitted and like a week

1146
00:59:24,080 --> 00:59:28,400
Speaker 5: later confessed, but because of double jeopardy, nothing could be done.

1147
00:59:29,000 --> 00:59:32,840
Speaker 5: And you know, if you're not familiar with Emmett Till,

1148
00:59:33,000 --> 00:59:36,760
Speaker 5: he was a fourteen year old African American boy from Chicago.

1149
00:59:37,160 --> 00:59:42,360
Speaker 5: He traveled to Money, Mississippi to visit family in August

1150
00:59:42,440 --> 00:59:48,280
Speaker 5: of nineteen fifty five. So remember Mississippi, nineteen fifty five, Okay,

1151
00:59:48,920 --> 00:59:52,640
Speaker 5: And he went to a grocery store with his cousins,

1152
00:59:52,680 --> 00:59:58,200
Speaker 5: I think. And what the grocery store was, it was

1153
00:59:58,200 --> 01:00:00,320
Speaker 5: like a little market in the grocery sto Or was

1154
01:00:00,320 --> 01:00:04,480
Speaker 5: owned by Roy and Carol Bryant. Okay, So Carol Bryant

1155
01:00:04,760 --> 01:00:08,600
Speaker 5: claimed that Emmett flirted with her and this just enraged

1156
01:00:08,640 --> 01:00:12,560
Speaker 5: her husband. So a couple of days later, you know,

1157
01:00:13,640 --> 01:00:16,640
Speaker 5: I think three days later, Roy is the husband and

1158
01:00:16,680 --> 01:00:20,840
Speaker 5: his brother went to where Emmett was staying with family

1159
01:00:20,880 --> 01:00:23,680
Speaker 5: and kidnapped him. They took him out of bed, they

1160
01:00:23,720 --> 01:00:25,600
Speaker 5: took him away in a truck, and they beat and

1161
01:00:25,640 --> 01:00:29,160
Speaker 5: tortured him for hours. And he, you know, he was

1162
01:00:29,760 --> 01:00:33,280
Speaker 5: he was brutally beaten up. And in fact, I think

1163
01:00:33,320 --> 01:00:37,240
Speaker 5: his mother, somebody can correct me if I'm wrong, insisted

1164
01:00:37,320 --> 01:00:38,200
Speaker 5: on open casket.

1165
01:00:38,280 --> 01:00:39,720
Speaker 3: Yes she did, you're correct.

1166
01:00:39,840 --> 01:00:43,280
Speaker 2: Yeah, really, that was like one of the first times

1167
01:00:43,320 --> 01:00:44,760
Speaker 2: that was a statement like no other.

1168
01:00:45,320 --> 01:00:45,520
Speaker 3: Yeah.

1169
01:00:45,800 --> 01:00:48,400
Speaker 8: Let she said, specifically, let the world see what they

1170
01:00:48,480 --> 01:00:49,240
Speaker 8: did to my boy.

1171
01:00:49,600 --> 01:00:52,720
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's right, that's right. And it's just

1172
01:00:52,720 --> 01:00:54,560
Speaker 3: always kind of stuck with me and and it.

1173
01:00:54,840 --> 01:00:57,919
Speaker 5: You know, our system is is great, but it's also

1174
01:00:58,040 --> 01:01:01,920
Speaker 5: very flawed, you know, like this, doubled double Jeopardy is important. Obviously.

1175
01:01:02,440 --> 01:01:04,800
Speaker 5: I think it protects a lot of innocent people from

1176
01:01:04,800 --> 01:01:08,280
Speaker 5: being prosecuted, you know, willy nilly. But when you when

1177
01:01:08,320 --> 01:01:12,640
Speaker 5: you outright confess to the murder after you've been acquitted, Come.

1178
01:01:12,480 --> 01:01:16,560
Speaker 2: On, come on, come on, we should do I'm obsessed

1179
01:01:16,560 --> 01:01:19,720
Speaker 2: with double jeopardy. In fact, you we should do double

1180
01:01:19,760 --> 01:01:20,960
Speaker 2: jeopardy as a jeopardy.

1181
01:01:21,440 --> 01:01:23,880
Speaker 3: You know, that could be a whole night because.

1182
01:01:23,640 --> 01:01:27,160
Speaker 2: There are several cases that are really hard to wrap

1183
01:01:27,200 --> 01:01:30,920
Speaker 2: your brain around that were, yeah, a real miscarriage of justice.

1184
01:01:31,240 --> 01:01:33,400
Speaker 2: I won't take too much time on this one. My

1185
01:01:33,520 --> 01:01:36,520
Speaker 2: list is kind of long, top of head. My list

1186
01:01:36,600 --> 01:01:40,160
Speaker 2: is really long. I really want to retry cases without

1187
01:01:40,520 --> 01:01:43,720
Speaker 2: all the evidence left out. You know, so much doesn't

1188
01:01:43,720 --> 01:01:47,160
Speaker 2: get seen by a jury because it's been left out

1189
01:01:47,320 --> 01:01:49,920
Speaker 2: for you know, a million reasons. Oj you know, the

1190
01:01:50,000 --> 01:01:52,960
Speaker 2: DNA or blood on the pedal and so many things

1191
01:01:53,000 --> 01:01:54,920
Speaker 2: that the jury did not have the benefit of seeing.

1192
01:01:55,480 --> 01:01:59,520
Speaker 2: I always think that's an interesting look back. And Pie County.

1193
01:01:59,600 --> 01:02:03,440
Speaker 2: You know, we make the piked In Massacre podcast. I

1194
01:02:03,480 --> 01:02:08,600
Speaker 2: hate those plea deals and Jake Wagner Angela Wagner. It's

1195
01:02:08,640 --> 01:02:12,120
Speaker 2: actually very complicated real time, and we will be doing

1196
01:02:12,680 --> 01:02:15,640
Speaker 2: another final season of the podcast when the time is right.

1197
01:02:15,800 --> 01:02:21,880
Speaker 2: But that case, that case, Yeah, there is some deals

1198
01:02:21,920 --> 01:02:25,400
Speaker 2: in that case that I think are really unfair. Yeah,

1199
01:02:25,440 --> 01:02:27,160
Speaker 2: meaning they are too light.

1200
01:02:29,720 --> 01:02:31,120
Speaker 3: Yeah, you kill eight.

1201
01:02:31,000 --> 01:02:34,800
Speaker 2: People, innocent people and live to tell the tale. You

1202
01:02:34,800 --> 01:02:36,200
Speaker 2: shouldn't get off in thirty years.

1203
01:02:36,360 --> 01:02:37,040
Speaker 3: I agree.

1204
01:02:37,400 --> 01:02:41,080
Speaker 4: Yeah, Well, listen, keep it here. We have more talkbacks,

1205
01:02:41,120 --> 01:02:43,840
Speaker 4: we have more dms. They are powerful, they are thoughtful,

1206
01:02:44,080 --> 01:02:46,880
Speaker 4: just like you are. So Yeah, True Crime Tonight, We're

1207
01:02:46,880 --> 01:02:48,360
Speaker 4: talking true crimes all the time.

1208
01:02:58,280 --> 01:03:00,600
Speaker 2: Welcome back to True Crime Tonight and All Art Radio.

1209
01:03:00,720 --> 01:03:03,800
Speaker 2: We're talking true crime all the time. Stephanie here with

1210
01:03:03,960 --> 01:03:06,080
Speaker 2: Courtney and Body on our.

1211
01:03:06,080 --> 01:03:07,320
Speaker 3: Very favorite night of the week.

1212
01:03:07,360 --> 01:03:10,600
Speaker 2: It is Talked Back Tuesday, and we love to hear

1213
01:03:10,680 --> 01:03:13,680
Speaker 2: from you on a busy night of headlines. Should we

1214
01:03:13,720 --> 01:03:16,240
Speaker 2: go to our talk back now to let's do it well?

1215
01:03:16,280 --> 01:03:16,640
Speaker 3: Should we?

1216
01:03:16,640 --> 01:03:16,760
Speaker 7: Well?

1217
01:03:16,800 --> 01:03:18,400
Speaker 8: Actually, I was going to mix it up a little,

1218
01:03:18,440 --> 01:03:21,120
Speaker 8: if you're okay with this. We get a lot of dms,

1219
01:03:21,200 --> 01:03:25,360
Speaker 8: so many it listeners love writing dms and we love

1220
01:03:25,400 --> 01:03:28,680
Speaker 8: getting them everyone, so keep them coming. We love a talkback.

1221
01:03:28,760 --> 01:03:31,440
Speaker 8: But we got some really good ones, and body, I

1222
01:03:31,760 --> 01:03:34,320
Speaker 8: sent one in your direction. Would you mind reading that

1223
01:03:34,360 --> 01:03:35,080
Speaker 8: one that we got me?

1224
01:03:37,440 --> 01:03:42,040
Speaker 5: Okay, So this says it's a DM from Sarah's from Sarah. Yeah,

1225
01:03:42,080 --> 01:03:43,280
Speaker 5: it says, Hi trogrime tonight.

1226
01:03:43,320 --> 01:03:43,720
Speaker 3: Friends.

1227
01:03:44,120 --> 01:03:46,840
Speaker 5: Absolutely love your podcast. I'm just finishing your episode with

1228
01:03:46,880 --> 01:03:50,200
Speaker 5: Hailey Robson, which was incredible and deeply touching.

1229
01:03:50,760 --> 01:03:51,440
Speaker 3: I agree.

1230
01:03:52,080 --> 01:03:54,640
Speaker 5: There were so many important points shared about the cycle

1231
01:03:54,640 --> 01:03:57,280
Speaker 5: of abuse and why people stay. My mom is a

1232
01:03:57,320 --> 01:04:01,240
Speaker 5: survivor of decades of domestic abuse, and one reason she

1233
01:04:01,480 --> 01:04:05,800
Speaker 5: stayed was due to not wanting to leave bats Oh,

1234
01:04:05,880 --> 01:04:09,640
Speaker 5: I said this, Okay, myself and my sister were able

1235
01:04:09,640 --> 01:04:11,640
Speaker 5: to get our mom and her fur babies to a

1236
01:04:11,680 --> 01:04:14,520
Speaker 5: safe living situation after a long list of logistics and

1237
01:04:14,560 --> 01:04:18,040
Speaker 5: other factors. But I know leaving with animals is not

1238
01:04:18,160 --> 01:04:21,280
Speaker 5: easy process and often not an option for many. I

1239
01:04:21,320 --> 01:04:24,000
Speaker 5: wanted to share that Purina has a program called the

1240
01:04:24,040 --> 01:04:27,080
Speaker 5: Purple Leash Program where they are working to make domestic

1241
01:04:27,160 --> 01:04:30,480
Speaker 5: shelters more pret friendly. This is a deeply personal issue

1242
01:04:30,480 --> 01:04:32,840
Speaker 5: for me, so I hope this resource helps someone else

1243
01:04:33,000 --> 01:04:36,520
Speaker 5: or inspires someone to donate or support the cause. Keep

1244
01:04:36,600 --> 01:04:39,320
Speaker 5: up the great work, Sarah from Detroit Detown.

1245
01:04:42,480 --> 01:04:45,480
Speaker 3: I did not know about that until its major the

1246
01:04:45,480 --> 01:04:46,960
Speaker 3: Purple Leash Project.

1247
01:04:47,120 --> 01:04:49,880
Speaker 5: So the Purple Leash Projects, it's a joint effort by

1248
01:04:49,920 --> 01:04:53,880
Speaker 5: Purina and Red Rover to help domestic abuse survivors stay

1249
01:04:53,880 --> 01:04:56,960
Speaker 5: with their pets by expanding access to pet friendly domestic

1250
01:04:57,080 --> 01:05:01,560
Speaker 5: violent shelters. Many survivors delay leaving because shelters don't accept pets.

1251
01:05:01,640 --> 01:05:05,400
Speaker 5: Less than twenty percent currently do, even though abusers often

1252
01:05:05,480 --> 01:05:08,040
Speaker 5: use pets as a means of control. Remember I told

1253
01:05:08,080 --> 01:05:10,560
Speaker 5: you I did that that talk with doctor Chris Mahaney

1254
01:05:11,200 --> 01:05:16,120
Speaker 5: Hondi at Crime Con and it was all about this subject. Actually,

1255
01:05:17,200 --> 01:05:20,720
Speaker 5: over two million dollars in grants fifty nine shelters supported

1256
01:05:21,240 --> 01:05:26,040
Speaker 5: pet friendly shelters, doubled nationwide federal advocacy through the Pause

1257
01:05:26,120 --> 01:05:31,400
Speaker 5: Act and extensive volunteer work to create safe and pet

1258
01:05:31,440 --> 01:05:35,760
Speaker 5: inclusive spaces. For help, call the Domestic Violence Hotline twenty

1259
01:05:35,760 --> 01:05:39,760
Speaker 5: four to seven at one eight hundred seven nine nine safe,

1260
01:05:39,840 --> 01:05:44,520
Speaker 5: which is one eight hundred seven nine seven two three three,

1261
01:05:44,800 --> 01:05:46,840
Speaker 5: or visit the hotline dot org.

1262
01:05:46,960 --> 01:05:47,920
Speaker 3: I love that I didn't know.

1263
01:05:48,520 --> 01:05:51,880
Speaker 8: Wow, isn't that amazing? And make sure everyone here is

1264
01:05:51,960 --> 01:05:54,160
Speaker 8: donate if you can and want.

1265
01:05:53,960 --> 01:05:56,360
Speaker 3: To help out. It's the Purple Leash Project.

1266
01:05:57,360 --> 01:05:59,520
Speaker 5: And I love that I did not know. Thank you

1267
01:05:59,520 --> 01:06:01,520
Speaker 5: so much for that talk that DM Sarah, because I

1268
01:06:01,680 --> 01:06:02,280
Speaker 5: was glueless.

1269
01:06:02,320 --> 01:06:05,960
Speaker 3: I annoyed you. Isn't it amazing? Yah Sarah?

1270
01:06:06,360 --> 01:06:09,479
Speaker 8: Yeah, it's so important. Well, I love our d ms,

1271
01:06:09,720 --> 01:06:12,360
Speaker 8: and I'm going to toss another one, Courtney. Do you

1272
01:06:12,400 --> 01:06:14,040
Speaker 8: feel like doing one that we got?

1273
01:06:14,240 --> 01:06:18,000
Speaker 4: Okay, I do, but taha producer, taha if I may,

1274
01:06:18,840 --> 01:06:22,640
Speaker 4: I'm going just slightly uh off script. This is a

1275
01:06:22,760 --> 01:06:28,000
Speaker 4: DM that came in from Cynthia and heads up Stephanie Lydecker.

1276
01:06:28,600 --> 01:06:34,000
Speaker 4: So Cynthia says, tell Stephanie she can always foster. I

1277
01:06:34,080 --> 01:06:37,360
Speaker 4: think she should get two dogs. Name them Captain Lee

1278
01:06:37,880 --> 01:06:42,480
Speaker 4: and Kate or Captain Lee and Captain Sandy. If you know,

1279
01:06:43,000 --> 01:06:47,080
Speaker 4: you know, Cynthia, we know, and we love when I

1280
01:06:47,120 --> 01:06:49,080
Speaker 4: don't know, help me.

1281
01:06:52,480 --> 01:06:53,360
Speaker 3: Listen, raise your hand.

1282
01:06:53,360 --> 01:06:55,320
Speaker 2: If you wish you were at Bravo Con this weekend.

1283
01:06:56,400 --> 01:07:00,240
Speaker 3: I know, I'm just like she was a mess. There's

1284
01:07:00,280 --> 01:07:02,680
Speaker 3: a mess. How is ships still a mess? How is

1285
01:07:02,760 --> 01:07:03,360
Speaker 3: that possible?

1286
01:07:03,480 --> 01:07:07,480
Speaker 2: I always used to clean up, I know, but yeah,

1287
01:07:07,560 --> 01:07:10,120
Speaker 2: lots of hot Mike moments from what we can tell.

1288
01:07:10,680 --> 01:07:14,840
Speaker 3: But yes, I love that idea. The problem is if.

1289
01:07:14,680 --> 01:07:17,920
Speaker 2: You're I mean, I don't know. Maybe this says short

1290
01:07:17,920 --> 01:07:22,680
Speaker 2: sighted of me. I can't imagine ever fostering any living

1291
01:07:23,120 --> 01:07:26,240
Speaker 2: thing I fostered and I be able to.

1292
01:07:26,240 --> 01:07:29,720
Speaker 3: Give it back. No, I couldn't. I was a foster failure.

1293
01:07:31,200 --> 01:07:36,720
Speaker 3: I filtered. I filtered. I fostered two dogs and idop wow. Ago,

1294
01:07:36,800 --> 01:07:38,080
Speaker 3: But they call that a failure.

1295
01:07:38,680 --> 01:07:41,560
Speaker 5: Yeah, because the idea of fostering is that you you

1296
01:07:42,200 --> 01:07:45,560
Speaker 5: rehabilitate a dog, or you make sure it's safe so

1297
01:07:45,600 --> 01:07:47,680
Speaker 5: that it's up for adoption, and you just continue to

1298
01:07:47,720 --> 01:07:50,920
Speaker 5: do that right, so that you there's always a place

1299
01:07:50,960 --> 01:07:55,600
Speaker 5: for a dog or two to go to in the system, right.

1300
01:07:56,040 --> 01:07:58,920
Speaker 5: And when you fail, they don't really like you to

1301
01:07:58,960 --> 01:08:00,160
Speaker 5: foster anymore.

1302
01:08:00,440 --> 01:08:03,120
Speaker 2: So they don't really give you that chance up to

1303
01:08:03,160 --> 01:08:08,600
Speaker 2: that yet again, I mean yeah, foster, yeah, of dogs

1304
01:08:08,720 --> 01:08:12,440
Speaker 2: or of children. I would have like nineteen kids, I

1305
01:08:12,440 --> 01:08:15,040
Speaker 2: would never be able to give them back. It would

1306
01:08:15,080 --> 01:08:19,680
Speaker 2: probably be that person. I have a nice foster story.

1307
01:08:19,680 --> 01:08:22,880
Speaker 2: So yes, yes, so my dog Eric.

1308
01:08:26,000 --> 01:08:31,120
Speaker 4: So when I adopted him Martin studious, Yes, when I

1309
01:08:31,160 --> 01:08:35,439
Speaker 4: adopted him, the guy ed who runs the place I

1310
01:08:35,479 --> 01:08:38,320
Speaker 4: adopted him from, he came to do a home visit,

1311
01:08:38,320 --> 01:08:41,040
Speaker 4: which is totally the right thing to do, you know,

1312
01:08:41,920 --> 01:08:44,160
Speaker 4: And he said, you know, you don't have to say yes,

1313
01:08:44,880 --> 01:08:50,720
Speaker 4: but his foster moms. Eric is their first foster and

1314
01:08:50,920 --> 01:08:52,599
Speaker 4: they could they possibly come?

1315
01:08:52,720 --> 01:08:55,800
Speaker 3: I said, of course, okay, So those women I got

1316
01:08:55,840 --> 01:08:56,840
Speaker 3: a lot of walkthroughs.

1317
01:08:57,160 --> 01:09:00,479
Speaker 4: You're getting called the carpet the same time. But it

1318
01:09:00,520 --> 01:09:04,200
Speaker 4: was Nan and Laura and these two women. The nicest

1319
01:09:04,200 --> 01:09:07,439
Speaker 4: is five years ago. We are still in touch. I

1320
01:09:07,520 --> 01:09:10,880
Speaker 4: sent them pictures yesterday of my dogs. They've been to

1321
01:09:10,960 --> 01:09:14,200
Speaker 4: my house. I send them Christmas cards. We talk all

1322
01:09:14,240 --> 01:09:16,360
Speaker 4: the time because Eric was their first dog that they

1323
01:09:16,400 --> 01:09:20,120
Speaker 4: ever fostered. They had them from six months and anyway,

1324
01:09:20,160 --> 01:09:22,080
Speaker 4: now we're all still like family and I think of

1325
01:09:22,120 --> 01:09:24,880
Speaker 4: them as you know, Aunty Laura and Nan.

1326
01:09:26,760 --> 01:09:29,200
Speaker 2: But then why didn't they keep Eric? Did you take

1327
01:09:29,360 --> 01:09:31,640
Speaker 2: Eric from them? Or did they sleep secretly resent you

1328
01:09:31,640 --> 01:09:32,120
Speaker 2: a little bit?

1329
01:09:32,160 --> 01:09:34,960
Speaker 3: That you know? He has a beautiful life.

1330
01:09:35,000 --> 01:09:37,800
Speaker 4: He has a dog brother and a sister and a

1331
01:09:37,840 --> 01:09:38,679
Speaker 4: real life brother.

1332
01:09:38,760 --> 01:09:40,719
Speaker 3: He sleeps on couches and pillows.

1333
01:09:40,840 --> 01:09:43,479
Speaker 2: Your dogs all have a very good life, that is

1334
01:09:43,760 --> 01:09:46,120
Speaker 2: for sure the sweet life, I might say.

1335
01:09:46,280 --> 01:09:48,240
Speaker 3: So, yeah, they wanted why didn't they keep them?

1336
01:09:48,280 --> 01:09:51,360
Speaker 4: Because they had enough dogs and they had enough you know,

1337
01:09:51,600 --> 01:09:54,679
Speaker 4: space in their heart and home and to foster.

1338
01:09:55,000 --> 01:09:58,320
Speaker 3: Like body said, anyway, I love it, Cynthia.

1339
01:09:58,439 --> 01:10:00,920
Speaker 2: I love the suggestion it's st only something to cake

1340
01:10:00,960 --> 01:10:04,600
Speaker 2: into consideration, and I certainly love some blow deck references

1341
01:10:04,600 --> 01:10:05,160
Speaker 2: for nannies.

1342
01:10:08,040 --> 01:10:10,639
Speaker 5: I have my hand raised because I see a DM

1343
01:10:10,760 --> 01:10:12,880
Speaker 5: in the mix of dms that I would like to read.

1344
01:10:13,120 --> 01:10:16,920
Speaker 3: Let's do it, buddy, it's going to be since into it.

1345
01:10:17,000 --> 01:10:18,639
Speaker 5: This one just spoke to my heart and I think,

1346
01:10:18,680 --> 01:10:20,080
Speaker 5: all you know, I think we're gonna like it.

1347
01:10:20,160 --> 01:10:21,599
Speaker 3: So this one is from den.

1348
01:10:21,720 --> 01:10:25,320
Speaker 5: I think it's Daniella, okay, and she says, hi guys

1349
01:10:25,520 --> 01:10:26,879
Speaker 5: or hi gales and lads.

1350
01:10:27,439 --> 01:10:30,160
Speaker 3: Sorry about the d M, but I hate the sound

1351
01:10:30,200 --> 01:10:32,360
Speaker 3: of my own voice. Girl, I understand, Okay.

1352
01:10:32,920 --> 01:10:34,880
Speaker 5: I just wanted to say that I listened to you

1353
01:10:34,960 --> 01:10:38,960
Speaker 5: guys every morning from a small village outside Dublin in Ireland.

1354
01:10:39,200 --> 01:10:42,160
Speaker 2: Oh my gosh, we're gonna come blind you our new

1355
01:10:42,200 --> 01:10:43,000
Speaker 2: host family.

1356
01:10:43,320 --> 01:10:46,519
Speaker 5: Yes, I came across this pod by mistake a couple

1357
01:10:46,520 --> 01:10:48,200
Speaker 5: of months ago, and I have been listening to you

1358
01:10:48,280 --> 01:10:50,760
Speaker 5: every day since. I make my morning coffee and start

1359
01:10:50,800 --> 01:10:53,760
Speaker 5: getting lunchboxes ready for my kids with you in my ear.

1360
01:10:53,880 --> 01:10:55,920
Speaker 5: Love you guys, and I will be getting awaited rest soon.

1361
01:10:56,000 --> 01:10:56,959
Speaker 5: Take care of Danielle.

1362
01:10:57,000 --> 01:11:01,160
Speaker 3: Listen. We're all Irish, well obviously we're America. Yes, we

1363
01:11:01,200 --> 01:11:02,120
Speaker 3: have Irish heritage.

1364
01:11:02,160 --> 01:11:04,240
Speaker 5: So this this is why I wanted to read this one,

1365
01:11:04,280 --> 01:11:07,400
Speaker 5: because all three of us are Irish and I like.

1366
01:11:07,360 --> 01:11:13,000
Speaker 3: Cracking open free beer. Yes, that's awesome. I've never been

1367
01:11:13,040 --> 01:11:15,840
Speaker 3: to Dublin and I want to go so bad.

1368
01:11:16,080 --> 01:11:18,240
Speaker 5: I want to go so so I want to go

1369
01:11:18,280 --> 01:11:21,880
Speaker 5: to Belfast too, I mean I do. I want to

1370
01:11:21,880 --> 01:11:23,639
Speaker 5: go to Cork, which is down south.

1371
01:11:24,760 --> 01:11:27,040
Speaker 3: Yeah, village in Ireland.

1372
01:11:27,920 --> 01:11:31,840
Speaker 8: That sounds the people of the food. I actually the

1373
01:11:31,880 --> 01:11:34,120
Speaker 8: food was amazing with the people. Stood out to people,

1374
01:11:34,240 --> 01:11:37,600
Speaker 8: super friendly. But they drank me under the table. I

1375
01:11:37,640 --> 01:11:40,000
Speaker 8: know that's kind of cliche because I'm a lightweight.

1376
01:11:40,000 --> 01:11:42,280
Speaker 2: But were you like asking for a cosmo at the

1377
01:11:42,360 --> 01:11:42,960
Speaker 2: Dublin bar?

1378
01:11:43,040 --> 01:11:46,040
Speaker 3: Are you asking for a cosmo? I probably did, but

1379
01:11:46,840 --> 01:11:57,840
Speaker 3: you guys like I am a d M.

1380
01:11:57,960 --> 01:12:01,880
Speaker 8: That's definite. You might like this one is specifically to you.

1381
01:12:02,960 --> 01:12:07,559
Speaker 8: This is from Cynthia. Cynthia says Stephanie needs to Oh no,

1382
01:12:07,800 --> 01:12:11,519
Speaker 8: I'm sorry. This is from Tangia. She's called a few

1383
01:12:11,520 --> 01:12:16,040
Speaker 8: times from Atlanta. Tanya tell Stephanie that in and Out

1384
01:12:16,160 --> 01:12:16,960
Speaker 8: opens in.

1385
01:12:17,240 --> 01:12:19,120
Speaker 3: Mrs Free Burrow soon.

1386
01:12:20,680 --> 01:12:21,000
Speaker 7: Burrow.

1387
01:12:21,160 --> 01:12:22,719
Speaker 3: Yes, having mareen right now.

1388
01:12:23,080 --> 01:12:26,160
Speaker 2: Wait, that's very close. I pass the sign on the

1389
01:12:26,160 --> 01:12:28,760
Speaker 2: really highway to go there. All the time, you learn

1390
01:12:28,880 --> 01:12:30,080
Speaker 2: your way around Tennessee.

1391
01:12:30,479 --> 01:12:31,519
Speaker 3: I am listen.

1392
01:12:31,720 --> 01:12:33,439
Speaker 2: I will go far and wide for an in and

1393
01:12:33,439 --> 01:12:37,240
Speaker 2: out run. Yes, they're a double double animal style French fries,

1394
01:12:37,320 --> 01:12:39,360
Speaker 2: extra crispy shake a stick up.

1395
01:12:39,800 --> 01:12:39,880
Speaker 4: Hi.

1396
01:12:40,000 --> 01:12:42,280
Speaker 8: That's funny because I would think that has something in

1397
01:12:42,360 --> 01:12:43,800
Speaker 8: that sounds gluteny to me.

1398
01:12:43,920 --> 01:12:44,439
Speaker 3: No, they do.

1399
01:12:44,520 --> 01:12:47,280
Speaker 2: It's all free version, and they take it so serious.

1400
01:12:47,320 --> 01:12:48,599
Speaker 3: They take it very seriously.

1401
01:12:48,800 --> 01:12:51,400
Speaker 2: Yeah, they have like their special pans and they're not

1402
01:12:51,560 --> 01:12:55,720
Speaker 2: like cross contaminating, and yeah, they make it legit. In

1403
01:12:55,760 --> 01:12:58,559
Speaker 2: those animal style French fries. You have to get used

1404
01:12:58,560 --> 01:13:01,840
Speaker 2: to the consistency of an in the picture. You have

1405
01:13:01,880 --> 01:13:03,559
Speaker 2: to get on board. It is a little different.

1406
01:13:03,800 --> 01:13:07,000
Speaker 3: They're not salty enough for me. You have to get them.

1407
01:13:07,120 --> 01:13:10,439
Speaker 3: You have to get them extra crispy.

1408
01:13:10,800 --> 01:13:14,080
Speaker 2: Yeah, and all the other animal style stuff on top

1409
01:13:14,080 --> 01:13:14,479
Speaker 2: of well, I.

1410
01:13:14,439 --> 01:13:18,639
Speaker 3: Get I get the single animal style. Okay, the single

1411
01:13:18,720 --> 01:13:21,040
Speaker 3: animal I don't do the double double. It's too much meat.

1412
01:13:21,080 --> 01:13:22,200
Speaker 3: I'm like, no, I do it.

1413
01:13:23,160 --> 01:13:24,960
Speaker 5: Sometimes when there's a lot of food in my mouth,

1414
01:13:25,520 --> 01:13:27,719
Speaker 5: the food like grows and I'm chewing.

1415
01:13:27,720 --> 01:13:30,240
Speaker 3: I start gagging, so I kill. I like to take

1416
01:13:30,280 --> 01:13:30,840
Speaker 3: little bites.

1417
01:13:30,840 --> 01:13:37,880
Speaker 2: It's a little you have, like little knife bites, little

1418
01:13:37,920 --> 01:13:40,040
Speaker 2: little nuggets.

1419
01:13:40,080 --> 01:13:44,800
Speaker 3: That's cute. I eat it in one huge gulp, like the.

1420
01:13:44,760 --> 01:13:46,920
Speaker 8: Only that doesn't love in and out the way the

1421
01:13:46,960 --> 01:13:50,320
Speaker 8: rest of the world does it. It's okay. I know,

1422
01:13:50,520 --> 01:13:52,760
Speaker 8: I know everyone throws tomatoes at me as soon as

1423
01:13:52,760 --> 01:13:53,160
Speaker 8: I say it.

1424
01:13:53,160 --> 01:14:01,879
Speaker 15: But it's very Get out of here right now, goose

1425
01:14:02,840 --> 01:14:03,639
Speaker 15: shaking dust?

1426
01:14:03,960 --> 01:14:05,800
Speaker 3: Did I talk about that or that? I think Taylor

1427
01:14:05,800 --> 01:14:08,240
Speaker 3: Swift is overrated, But those things I keep to.

1428
01:14:08,439 --> 01:14:11,160
Speaker 5: I know that was not us.

1429
01:14:11,240 --> 01:14:14,400
Speaker 3: Yeah, I just do not. I'll keep on board with you, Taha.

1430
01:14:14,479 --> 01:14:16,920
Speaker 4: I have nothing against but I don't the sun does

1431
01:14:16,960 --> 01:14:18,040
Speaker 4: not rise and said for me.

1432
01:14:18,400 --> 01:14:19,040
Speaker 3: I get it.

1433
01:14:19,160 --> 01:14:24,480
Speaker 2: Yeah, Well, I know, Okay, have you not heard I'm digressing.

1434
01:14:24,520 --> 01:14:24,920
Speaker 3: I'm sorry.

1435
01:14:25,000 --> 01:14:30,280
Speaker 2: I just heard Exile with Bonavie and featuring Taylor Swift.

1436
01:14:30,720 --> 01:14:32,439
Speaker 2: Right before we came on air, I don't know it

1437
01:14:32,439 --> 01:14:34,080
Speaker 2: came on. I was like, what is this version of

1438
01:14:34,120 --> 01:14:35,639
Speaker 2: the Taylor Swift Exile song?

1439
01:14:35,680 --> 01:14:39,040
Speaker 3: And it got me choked up? Did you say his name?

1440
01:14:39,120 --> 01:14:42,040
Speaker 4: I've always said it, Bond, I'm saying it wrong. No,

1441
01:14:42,160 --> 01:14:43,080
Speaker 4: I don't think you are.

1442
01:14:43,160 --> 01:14:48,520
Speaker 2: I've never said it out loud before either, out loud?

1443
01:14:49,439 --> 01:14:50,479
Speaker 3: Who are talking about? Okay?

1444
01:14:50,479 --> 01:14:53,000
Speaker 4: If you know the musician, give us a call, read

1445
01:14:52,720 --> 01:14:55,200
Speaker 4: a through on crime. This is true crime tonight. We

1446
01:14:55,280 --> 01:14:58,040
Speaker 4: are on the case. How do you pronounce the musician's name?

1447
01:14:59,000 --> 01:15:03,599
Speaker 4: Bon Avie or bon Iver? But apparently his cover.

1448
01:15:04,120 --> 01:15:07,519
Speaker 3: Adam's coming in high Adam? Bonie Vere used to love

1449
01:15:07,560 --> 01:15:13,240
Speaker 3: Boniver in high school. All of us were wrong, Thank

1450
01:15:13,280 --> 01:15:17,280
Speaker 3: god for Adam. What about high school? I loved bonie

1451
01:15:17,360 --> 01:15:21,200
Speaker 3: Ver in high school? Good glad heard?

1452
01:15:21,840 --> 01:15:25,759
Speaker 2: Have you heard the indie remix of Exile by bonie

1453
01:15:25,800 --> 01:15:27,200
Speaker 2: Vere featuring Taylor Swift.

1454
01:15:27,240 --> 01:15:31,880
Speaker 3: It's pretty good? Is it? Okay? All right?

1455
01:15:32,040 --> 01:15:35,639
Speaker 8: Well, I I mean, yeah, I don't dislike her. I'm

1456
01:15:35,640 --> 01:15:38,200
Speaker 8: not going to criticize her. She's a talented musician, she

1457
01:15:38,280 --> 01:15:39,000
Speaker 8: writes everything.

1458
01:15:39,080 --> 01:15:42,040
Speaker 3: So I like Taylor Swift. Yeah, I saw I went

1459
01:15:42,080 --> 01:15:44,200
Speaker 3: to the Aross tour. I loved it. Yeah, shake it up.

1460
01:15:44,240 --> 01:15:45,840
Speaker 8: I did hear the door. It was amazingly fun.

1461
01:15:46,080 --> 01:15:47,000
Speaker 3: It was amazing like that.

1462
01:15:47,200 --> 01:15:50,960
Speaker 5: I mean, you can't deny how like all the outfit changes,

1463
01:15:51,040 --> 01:15:53,200
Speaker 5: all this stage presentation.

1464
01:15:52,800 --> 01:15:56,760
Speaker 3: Her her her voice, like everything is just wonderful. I thought.

1465
01:15:56,840 --> 01:15:58,920
Speaker 3: I thought it was really good. I really we will

1466
01:15:58,920 --> 01:16:00,479
Speaker 3: put her in the good billion our club.

1467
01:16:00,600 --> 01:16:04,320
Speaker 5: So yes, she is a very she is a good billionaire. Yes,

1468
01:16:04,360 --> 01:16:06,679
Speaker 5: and they're very rare, I will say. And it seemed

1469
01:16:06,680 --> 01:16:09,240
Speaker 5: like everybody really enjoyed that tour. I love a good

1470
01:16:09,520 --> 01:16:10,280
Speaker 5: like dance.

1471
01:16:10,600 --> 01:16:13,439
Speaker 2: In my mind's eye, I am a Britney Spears backup

1472
01:16:13,560 --> 01:16:17,320
Speaker 2: dancer or a Madonna backup dancer Madonna, that would be

1473
01:16:17,400 --> 01:16:19,880
Speaker 2: so good, and that would be a dream scenario. I

1474
01:16:19,920 --> 01:16:23,000
Speaker 2: can't dance at all, as we all know, but in

1475
01:16:23,040 --> 01:16:24,360
Speaker 2: my mind it's magical.

1476
01:16:25,840 --> 01:16:28,519
Speaker 3: It's a fun show because I think we care dance

1477
01:16:28,560 --> 01:16:30,000
Speaker 3: pretty good. We chare dance.

1478
01:16:30,120 --> 01:16:38,040
Speaker 16: I do the nod nod, both stands in the air

1479
01:16:39,280 --> 01:16:40,519
Speaker 16: like a half body dancer.

1480
01:16:41,160 --> 01:16:41,720
Speaker 3: I love it.

1481
01:16:42,200 --> 01:16:44,160
Speaker 8: Thank you for I was just going to say thanks

1482
01:16:44,160 --> 01:16:46,200
Speaker 8: you for all these great dms that we got, and

1483
01:16:46,720 --> 01:16:48,759
Speaker 8: I think we do have time for one more topic

1484
01:16:48,800 --> 01:16:50,559
Speaker 8: that I want Stephanie to hear because.

1485
01:16:50,360 --> 01:16:53,200
Speaker 3: This is a topic we've been covering a lot. So Adam,

1486
01:16:53,240 --> 01:16:54,160
Speaker 3: do you have that one ready?

1487
01:16:55,920 --> 01:16:59,800
Speaker 13: So y'all had me absolutely just cracking up laughing at

1488
01:16:59,800 --> 01:17:01,840
Speaker 13: the end of the episode. Yeah, there were a lot

1489
01:17:01,880 --> 01:17:04,679
Speaker 13: of heavy topics that y'all talked about, but it's nice

1490
01:17:04,720 --> 01:17:07,840
Speaker 13: to at the end just be able to laugh. But anyways,

1491
01:17:08,000 --> 01:17:10,559
Speaker 13: I was thinking, y'all came up with True Crime and Chill,

1492
01:17:10,640 --> 01:17:12,599
Speaker 13: which is awesome that we do every other week.

1493
01:17:13,400 --> 01:17:14,599
Speaker 3: Well, looks like.

1494
01:17:14,600 --> 01:17:19,320
Speaker 13: Y'all have something new, I say coming this summer true

1495
01:17:19,360 --> 01:17:21,520
Speaker 13: Crime and Silly Act Cruise.

1496
01:17:26,120 --> 01:17:31,799
Speaker 4: And then sponsored by In and Out on their special griddles.

1497
01:17:32,680 --> 01:17:35,920
Speaker 2: Everybody, bring your own pan, bring your own pan and

1498
01:17:35,960 --> 01:17:36,960
Speaker 2: your own silverware.

1499
01:17:37,960 --> 01:17:41,080
Speaker 3: And this is, by the way, baby Riley, our little Riley.

1500
01:17:41,280 --> 01:17:43,240
Speaker 2: Not she's not little, nor is she a baby. Our

1501
01:17:43,400 --> 01:17:47,280
Speaker 2: very smart Riley, our associate producer from this summer. She

1502
01:17:47,360 --> 01:17:53,280
Speaker 2: also has celiac disease, so she'll have to come. Yay, Yeah,

1503
01:17:53,479 --> 01:17:54,559
Speaker 2: everybody's on the cruise.

1504
01:17:54,560 --> 01:17:55,719
Speaker 3: We're all going. Everybody.

1505
01:17:57,200 --> 01:18:00,120
Speaker 8: I have some I guess it's gluten free food of

1506
01:18:00,360 --> 01:18:03,520
Speaker 8: Friends giving this weekend, and two people there brought Celiac

1507
01:18:03,960 --> 01:18:05,080
Speaker 8: or gluten free dishes.

1508
01:18:05,240 --> 01:18:08,120
Speaker 3: Amazing. You wouldn't know the know the difference. I'm getting

1509
01:18:08,120 --> 01:18:10,519
Speaker 3: on the boat with you, Yes, yes, I mean.

1510
01:18:10,400 --> 01:18:15,080
Speaker 4: Let's get who is getting on the boat with us.

1511
01:18:15,880 --> 01:18:21,120
Speaker 4: Stick around, We've got cruise updates maybe, but right after

1512
01:18:21,200 --> 01:18:25,520
Speaker 4: the break, we've got some of your fun, fun talkbacks.

1513
01:18:25,800 --> 01:18:29,000
Speaker 4: We also have your reactions to the Perfect Neighbor and

1514
01:18:29,439 --> 01:18:32,800
Speaker 4: keep it here. True Crime Tonight, True Crime all the Time.

1515
01:18:43,600 --> 01:18:46,200
Speaker 2: Welcome back to True Crime tonight on iHeartRadio.

1516
01:18:46,800 --> 01:18:49,280
Speaker 3: We're talking true crime all the time.

1517
01:18:49,479 --> 01:18:54,240
Speaker 2: I'm Stephanie Leidecker here with my giggling girls, Courtney Armstrong

1518
01:18:54,280 --> 01:18:58,040
Speaker 2: and Body move in and of course Taha as well,

1519
01:18:58,200 --> 01:19:00,240
Speaker 2: and Sam and Adam in the control room.

1520
01:19:00,400 --> 01:19:02,559
Speaker 3: How would we describe what Courtney was just doing just.

1521
01:19:06,920 --> 01:19:09,680
Speaker 2: At This is not gonna Britney Spears is not going

1522
01:19:09,720 --> 01:19:16,200
Speaker 2: to take you on tour. We had practice this weekends

1523
01:19:16,320 --> 01:19:17,240
Speaker 2: for our tour.

1524
01:19:17,920 --> 01:19:20,640
Speaker 5: During the commercials, some music plays and we do a

1525
01:19:20,680 --> 01:19:23,599
Speaker 5: little boogie and Courtney just did a little vampy move,

1526
01:19:25,160 --> 01:19:26,000
Speaker 5: real vamp.

1527
01:19:26,040 --> 01:19:27,320
Speaker 3: I like feather.

1528
01:19:29,200 --> 01:19:32,080
Speaker 2: You need a sequence, Yeah, like a sequence number.

1529
01:19:33,320 --> 01:19:36,640
Speaker 3: Some feathers. My face hurts.

1530
01:19:39,160 --> 01:19:43,320
Speaker 8: Hysterical, We're said a smile on my face. But yeah,

1531
01:19:43,520 --> 01:19:45,840
Speaker 8: so well this might not put a smile on our face.

1532
01:19:45,880 --> 01:19:49,320
Speaker 8: We've got to talk back about Epstein, I think, or Maxwell.

1533
01:19:49,439 --> 01:19:51,439
Speaker 8: So something serious.

1534
01:19:51,560 --> 01:19:52,040
Speaker 3: Let's hear it.

1535
01:19:52,439 --> 01:19:57,720
Speaker 7: Hi, it's Carol from Pennsylvania, jurning Epstein and glaying. I

1536
01:19:57,760 --> 01:20:01,759
Speaker 7: want to go back to Blaye Bob as I recall

1537
01:20:02,400 --> 01:20:06,439
Speaker 7: his death was considered suspicious, although I don't remember the detail.

1538
01:20:07,040 --> 01:20:09,600
Speaker 7: So there was Elaine left with no daddy. She was

1539
01:20:09,640 --> 01:20:13,679
Speaker 7: a daddy's girl. So she's left with no daddy, no money.

1540
01:20:14,040 --> 01:20:20,080
Speaker 7: She comes over here and hooks up with Epstein. Now suppose, oh,

1541
01:20:20,120 --> 01:20:22,519
Speaker 7: I'm sorry, allegedly allegedly.

1542
01:20:22,000 --> 01:20:24,600
Speaker 3: Allegedly that a girl her father.

1543
01:20:24,640 --> 01:20:28,680
Speaker 7: Was involved with Russians and it had to do with blackmail.

1544
01:20:29,360 --> 01:20:33,479
Speaker 7: So Glaine comes over here, has all this knowledge because

1545
01:20:33,520 --> 01:20:36,480
Speaker 7: she was in it with dad, cooks up with Epstein

1546
01:20:36,600 --> 01:20:40,120
Speaker 7: and suddenly he explodes on the scene and gets all

1547
01:20:40,160 --> 01:20:42,760
Speaker 7: this money. I don't have any facts. This is just

1548
01:20:42,880 --> 01:20:45,479
Speaker 7: what has been put out there. What do you think.

1549
01:20:46,840 --> 01:20:49,719
Speaker 2: I love this backstory, and by the way, it's pretty

1550
01:20:49,720 --> 01:20:51,960
Speaker 2: spot on. I mean, that is really the story of

1551
01:20:52,000 --> 01:20:56,320
Speaker 2: all stories. Right, So yeah, Gilaine Maxwell infamously, you know,

1552
01:20:56,400 --> 01:20:56,880
Speaker 2: she was.

1553
01:20:57,560 --> 01:21:00,920
Speaker 3: A little beloved rich girl, right.

1554
01:21:01,000 --> 01:21:03,080
Speaker 2: She had a lot of affluence, a lot of influence.

1555
01:21:03,080 --> 01:21:06,720
Speaker 2: Her father was very high profile. It's famously said that

1556
01:21:06,800 --> 01:21:10,240
Speaker 2: he had a yacht that was named Gilaine after her

1557
01:21:10,479 --> 01:21:14,439
Speaker 2: because you know, she was like Daddy's little perfect girl.

1558
01:21:14,560 --> 01:21:18,360
Speaker 2: So the loss of him probably is you know, a

1559
01:21:18,400 --> 01:21:23,000
Speaker 2: whole that can never be filled. And yeah, the circumstances were,

1560
01:21:23,200 --> 01:21:26,160
Speaker 2: you know, by many accounts, very suspicious. But she had

1561
01:21:26,160 --> 01:21:30,080
Speaker 2: all these high profile relationships because of Dad prior to

1562
01:21:30,120 --> 01:21:34,000
Speaker 2: his death, ultimately left penniless. So when she comes to

1563
01:21:34,000 --> 01:21:36,120
Speaker 2: the US and hooks up with Epstein, isn't that the

1564
01:21:36,160 --> 01:21:39,519
Speaker 2: perfect storm? She has, the contacts, he has, you know,

1565
01:21:39,680 --> 01:21:41,639
Speaker 2: everything else that she's probably searching for.

1566
01:21:43,080 --> 01:21:47,520
Speaker 5: But yeah, there's he was born in Czechoslova, the former Czechoslovakia,

1567
01:21:47,560 --> 01:21:51,880
Speaker 5: which truct part of the USSR right, and so he

1568
01:21:52,000 --> 01:21:56,720
Speaker 5: maintained all those business relationships when you know, well he

1569
01:21:56,840 --> 01:21:57,599
Speaker 5: just maintained all.

1570
01:21:57,479 --> 01:21:58,720
Speaker 3: Those business relationships.

1571
01:21:58,720 --> 01:22:05,920
Speaker 5: So the documented Russian slash Soviet connections are really well documented.

1572
01:22:05,720 --> 01:22:09,439
Speaker 3: That's correct. So yeah, I mean there's something there. I

1573
01:22:09,520 --> 01:22:10,080
Speaker 3: just don't know what.

1574
01:22:11,000 --> 01:22:14,000
Speaker 4: Yeah, he I mean, here are some things that we

1575
01:22:14,200 --> 01:22:18,479
Speaker 4: had been looking into for a while. So Dad, Robert

1576
01:22:18,520 --> 01:22:21,280
Speaker 4: Maxwell and you know you say she was daddy's little girl,

1577
01:22:21,320 --> 01:22:22,120
Speaker 4: and she was.

1578
01:22:22,280 --> 01:22:23,759
Speaker 3: All of what you said is true.

1579
01:22:24,640 --> 01:22:28,639
Speaker 4: Also, there are allegations pointed and painted in numerous places

1580
01:22:29,040 --> 01:22:31,240
Speaker 4: that he also hit her like he.

1581
01:22:31,200 --> 01:22:32,960
Speaker 3: Would hit Gaylane. He would.

1582
01:22:33,600 --> 01:22:37,080
Speaker 4: She told the childhood friends something that he would put

1583
01:22:37,080 --> 01:22:39,800
Speaker 4: out a hairbrush, a strap or a slipper and say,

1584
01:22:39,880 --> 01:22:41,519
Speaker 4: choose your punishment instrument.

1585
01:22:41,920 --> 01:22:42,360
Speaker 8: Wow.

1586
01:22:43,000 --> 01:22:46,759
Speaker 4: Yeah, So anyway, very messy what went on with their

1587
01:22:47,080 --> 01:22:53,000
Speaker 4: father daughter relationship. But the man independent of family, Robert Maxwell,

1588
01:22:53,000 --> 01:22:57,080
Speaker 4: he was a Holocaust survivor. He became a decorated World

1589
01:22:57,120 --> 01:23:02,360
Speaker 4: War Two soldier and then a real prominent British media

1590
01:23:02,439 --> 01:23:06,080
Speaker 4: magnate and that's where he hit the scene. So his

1591
01:23:06,200 --> 01:23:09,360
Speaker 4: publishing empire was huge. It was centered on a place

1592
01:23:09,400 --> 01:23:13,360
Speaker 4: called pergam And Press. He acquired assets including the Mirror

1593
01:23:13,360 --> 01:23:15,439
Speaker 4: Group newspapers and McMillan Inc.

1594
01:23:15,960 --> 01:23:20,120
Speaker 3: Is that the Daily Mirror? Is that the paper? I

1595
01:23:20,120 --> 01:23:21,000
Speaker 3: think it was.

1596
01:23:21,240 --> 01:23:24,919
Speaker 4: I'm going to look for secessor, but yeah, if Tasha

1597
01:23:25,080 --> 01:23:25,800
Speaker 4: double check.

1598
01:23:28,160 --> 01:23:28,479
Speaker 3: But yeah.

1599
01:23:28,520 --> 01:23:34,760
Speaker 4: He was wealthy and extravagant and litigious, and he had

1600
01:23:34,800 --> 01:23:38,880
Speaker 4: a lot of political connections and was also entangled in

1601
01:23:38,920 --> 01:23:40,160
Speaker 4: a lot of controversies.

1602
01:23:41,080 --> 01:23:45,160
Speaker 5: Wasn't wasn't there like a claim that he was connected

1603
01:23:45,160 --> 01:23:51,200
Speaker 5: to Masadnetion with that because he had something to do

1604
01:23:51,280 --> 01:23:58,040
Speaker 5: with them getting some of their their Israel's uh teches.

1605
01:23:56,439 --> 01:24:00,000
Speaker 2: Were considered like listening instruments and buzz if you were.

1606
01:24:00,520 --> 01:24:02,400
Speaker 2: And his death was pretty suspicious, like you know, some

1607
01:24:02,439 --> 01:24:04,960
Speaker 2: said it was suicide, some said he was killed, some

1608
01:24:05,000 --> 01:24:05,759
Speaker 2: said he slipped.

1609
01:24:05,760 --> 01:24:07,880
Speaker 3: I think he fell off a boat. Right, wasn't the

1610
01:24:07,960 --> 01:24:13,719
Speaker 3: yacht that he fell off? His yacht the n l Oh.

1611
01:24:13,840 --> 01:24:17,200
Speaker 8: Yeah, And to answer earlier question, it is the mirror, so.

1612
01:24:17,360 --> 01:24:19,720
Speaker 3: It is okay, I correct the deal justes. I read

1613
01:24:19,720 --> 01:24:20,720
Speaker 3: that sometimes and.

1614
01:24:20,760 --> 01:24:24,640
Speaker 2: Remember that's how all of those relationships with you know,

1615
01:24:24,760 --> 01:24:28,200
Speaker 2: the royal family and you know all of these international

1616
01:24:28,320 --> 01:24:29,440
Speaker 2: lavish relationships.

1617
01:24:29,479 --> 01:24:30,640
Speaker 3: You know, she was a socialite.

1618
01:24:30,720 --> 01:24:34,000
Speaker 2: She was raised asocialite and then cut off by the

1619
01:24:34,120 --> 01:24:38,160
Speaker 2: knees when dad died. And it turns out he was

1620
01:24:38,200 --> 01:24:41,120
Speaker 2: a bit of a fraud and had been you know,

1621
01:24:41,280 --> 01:24:43,960
Speaker 2: I think screwing over elderly people. Correct me if I'm

1622
01:24:43,960 --> 01:24:46,439
Speaker 2: wrong on Courtney. There was a lot of skillrill after

1623
01:24:46,479 --> 01:24:46,960
Speaker 2: his death.

1624
01:24:47,360 --> 01:24:47,559
Speaker 4: Yeah.

1625
01:24:47,600 --> 01:24:49,759
Speaker 3: I had a huge ear full of this from Betty

1626
01:24:49,840 --> 01:24:50,280
Speaker 3: my mom.

1627
01:24:50,479 --> 01:24:54,719
Speaker 4: Actually, She's like, oh, that was a mess, and nobody

1628
01:24:54,760 --> 01:24:57,800
Speaker 4: knows what happens on that yacht, which is true. It

1629
01:24:57,840 --> 01:25:00,559
Speaker 4: was very suspicious. It was a nineteen ninety one and

1630
01:25:01,160 --> 01:25:05,519
Speaker 4: you know, did he fall quote accident or was he pushed?

1631
01:25:06,000 --> 01:25:08,439
Speaker 4: But when he died This is part of why Gilain

1632
01:25:08,560 --> 01:25:10,360
Speaker 4: left because it was very shameful.

1633
01:25:12,120 --> 01:25:13,560
Speaker 3: Huge fraud was uncovered.

1634
01:25:14,160 --> 01:25:18,919
Speaker 4: He misappropriated when you said elderly people, he misused hundreds

1635
01:25:18,920 --> 01:25:23,200
Speaker 4: of millions of dollars of company pension funds and that

1636
01:25:23,320 --> 01:25:28,559
Speaker 4: collapsed his businesses and subsequently had trials for his sons.

1637
01:25:28,600 --> 01:25:29,480
Speaker 3: They were acquitted.

1638
01:25:29,880 --> 01:25:32,760
Speaker 4: But no, he was a scoundrel, as Betty would say,

1639
01:25:34,360 --> 01:25:38,080
Speaker 4: the likes of which, So imagine your dad's a scoundrel.

1640
01:25:38,240 --> 01:25:39,920
Speaker 3: Maybe this person that you looked up to.

1641
01:25:40,520 --> 01:25:44,160
Speaker 2: You're left now kind of booted out of high society.

1642
01:25:44,680 --> 01:25:47,599
Speaker 2: Now you're an adult and there's no money in the bank,

1643
01:25:47,760 --> 01:25:50,320
Speaker 2: so those days are done. She comes to the US

1644
01:25:50,439 --> 01:25:53,080
Speaker 2: and meets up with another scoundrel, who, by the way,

1645
01:25:53,120 --> 01:25:54,799
Speaker 2: is abusive potentially to women.

1646
01:25:55,080 --> 01:25:56,439
Speaker 3: So this tracks right.

1647
01:25:56,600 --> 01:25:59,360
Speaker 2: So again we are not like you know, creating a

1648
01:25:59,360 --> 01:26:03,840
Speaker 2: backstory of origin greatness for Gilay and to justify her actions,

1649
01:26:04,320 --> 01:26:05,800
Speaker 2: but you know, it does sort of speak to the

1650
01:26:05,840 --> 01:26:09,519
Speaker 2: cyclical cycle of abuse right, So she was ready to

1651
01:26:09,640 --> 01:26:14,240
Speaker 2: roll and maybe a little desensitized herself. What she had

1652
01:26:14,439 --> 01:26:18,519
Speaker 2: were these high profile relationships, and what Epstein had was

1653
01:26:18,600 --> 01:26:23,280
Speaker 2: real deep pockets thanks to the financing from so many

1654
01:26:23,320 --> 01:26:27,559
Speaker 2: of these wealthy you know people around him, Wess, you know,

1655
01:26:27,680 --> 01:26:32,120
Speaker 2: Les Wexner specifically, So they became the perfect unit.

1656
01:26:33,400 --> 01:26:36,240
Speaker 3: And when I say perfect, I mean horrendous. Right.

1657
01:26:38,000 --> 01:26:42,120
Speaker 4: And then body earlier you'd mentioned that Robert Maxwell had

1658
01:26:42,640 --> 01:26:46,839
Speaker 4: allegitized to Masad, I mean pretty well documented, to be honest,

1659
01:26:47,360 --> 01:26:51,439
Speaker 4: and then, without going into it too much, also links

1660
01:26:51,479 --> 01:26:55,080
Speaker 4: with British intelligence and Soviet intelligence.

1661
01:26:55,360 --> 01:26:57,880
Speaker 3: Yeah, so that's a big portfolio.

1662
01:26:57,920 --> 01:27:00,320
Speaker 5: My understanding of all the intelligent stuff is that it

1663
01:27:00,400 --> 01:27:04,000
Speaker 5: goes like in from top to bottom. Let's just say

1664
01:27:04,080 --> 01:27:08,960
Speaker 5: KGB was like alleged, right, and then the m I

1665
01:27:09,040 --> 01:27:14,800
Speaker 5: six British intelligence was a lower you know, lower.

1666
01:27:14,600 --> 01:27:15,880
Speaker 3: Level kind of involvement.

1667
01:27:16,360 --> 01:27:20,519
Speaker 5: And then the more stronger claims come from the Massia connection.

1668
01:27:20,640 --> 01:27:22,920
Speaker 5: And I think like when he died, like a bunch

1669
01:27:22,960 --> 01:27:27,880
Speaker 5: of Massade heads went to his funeral, like.

1670
01:27:27,880 --> 01:27:30,320
Speaker 3: People that were in charge of Masad. Yeah you're right,

1671
01:27:30,600 --> 01:27:31,479
Speaker 3: Oh really okay.

1672
01:27:31,360 --> 01:27:34,960
Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, he had it was a state level funeral

1673
01:27:35,120 --> 01:27:38,920
Speaker 4: in Israel and it was attended by you know, the

1674
01:27:38,920 --> 01:27:41,280
Speaker 4: top figures. State level is a big deal.

1675
01:27:41,640 --> 01:27:45,519
Speaker 3: Yeah, I didn't know that. I mean, he had his funeral,

1676
01:27:45,560 --> 01:27:46,320
Speaker 3: wasn't in Israel.

1677
01:27:47,280 --> 01:27:50,880
Speaker 8: Uh, he had a funeral in Israel, like when he died.

1678
01:27:50,960 --> 01:27:53,280
Speaker 8: His funeral he had a state level funeral in Israel

1679
01:27:53,320 --> 01:27:56,000
Speaker 8: attendant political and intelligence figures.

1680
01:27:56,040 --> 01:27:58,240
Speaker 3: So interesting, Yeah.

1681
01:27:58,120 --> 01:28:00,800
Speaker 4: Because remember he was a Holocaust and you know, so

1682
01:28:00,920 --> 01:28:03,080
Speaker 4: even though he had his adult life.

1683
01:28:03,000 --> 01:28:06,880
Speaker 3: It was right, wow, Okay, fascinating.

1684
01:28:07,880 --> 01:28:10,360
Speaker 2: You talk at the crossover, I really would be funny,

1685
01:28:10,400 --> 01:28:14,200
Speaker 2: and it not funny. The opposite of most unfun task

1686
01:28:14,360 --> 01:28:18,640
Speaker 2: would be to take Epstein's profile and then take you know,

1687
01:28:18,840 --> 01:28:23,759
Speaker 2: his profile because there's a lot of crossover betweens, then

1688
01:28:24,080 --> 01:28:24,840
Speaker 2: diagram body.

1689
01:28:24,880 --> 01:28:27,439
Speaker 3: You would go to town on this Excel document of

1690
01:28:27,560 --> 01:28:29,480
Speaker 3: sort of their backgrounds.

1691
01:28:29,479 --> 01:28:31,519
Speaker 2: And we should talk a little bit about Epstein's background

1692
01:28:31,560 --> 01:28:35,880
Speaker 2: because it also does speak to this like House of Cards.

1693
01:28:35,960 --> 01:28:39,000
Speaker 2: This guy was, you know, he's like the Wizard. There's

1694
01:28:39,120 --> 01:28:42,400
Speaker 2: nothing there. I mean, there really wasn't any reason for

1695
01:28:42,520 --> 01:28:45,440
Speaker 2: him to be trusted with as much money and finances

1696
01:28:46,080 --> 01:28:48,599
Speaker 2: that he was. You have to assume that there's some

1697
01:28:48,640 --> 01:28:52,479
Speaker 2: sort of either blackmail or something more to the story

1698
01:28:52,520 --> 01:28:55,320
Speaker 2: that anyone in their right mind would give him so

1699
01:28:55,760 --> 01:28:56,680
Speaker 2: much oversight.

1700
01:28:58,600 --> 01:29:03,880
Speaker 3: I wonder. I mean, I, oh, well, we will, we will.

1701
01:29:03,920 --> 01:29:06,400
Speaker 3: The week is young, yeah, and I think it's.

1702
01:29:06,240 --> 01:29:08,559
Speaker 8: Going to be so much more happening all of this week.

1703
01:29:08,600 --> 01:29:10,559
Speaker 8: But I think maybe we do a deep dive into

1704
01:29:10,760 --> 01:29:13,960
Speaker 8: Epstein's background, because I think that has come up. We've

1705
01:29:14,000 --> 01:29:14,719
Speaker 8: seen some people.

1706
01:29:15,120 --> 01:29:17,880
Speaker 5: I don't know anything about his background, so I'd love

1707
01:29:17,960 --> 01:29:18,280
Speaker 5: to do that.

1708
01:29:18,320 --> 01:29:19,519
Speaker 3: I'd love to learn about it.

1709
01:29:19,439 --> 01:29:22,479
Speaker 2: Because you'll be really unimpressed. It's pretty basic. I mean,

1710
01:29:22,520 --> 01:29:24,559
Speaker 2: this is just like a basic guy who has a

1711
01:29:24,600 --> 01:29:28,840
Speaker 2: minimal education. He was considered a mathematician, kind of a

1712
01:29:28,880 --> 01:29:33,479
Speaker 2: genius mathematically. He graduated high school early and that was

1713
01:29:33,520 --> 01:29:35,080
Speaker 2: the end of it, and got on with the show,

1714
01:29:35,320 --> 01:29:39,760
Speaker 2: and he started getting hired pretty quickly and pretty you know,

1715
01:29:40,120 --> 01:29:44,400
Speaker 2: high profile jobs based on nothing, him not having really

1716
01:29:44,439 --> 01:29:47,080
Speaker 2: the credentials. And we've talked about this, frankly to nauseum

1717
01:29:47,120 --> 01:29:49,280
Speaker 2: about him getting that first job as a high school

1718
01:29:49,320 --> 01:29:52,400
Speaker 2: teacher at Dalton, the private school in New York City.

1719
01:29:52,880 --> 01:29:55,400
Speaker 2: Anyone from New York City knows these private schools are

1720
01:29:55,479 --> 01:29:57,320
Speaker 2: so elite and hard to get into.

1721
01:29:58,680 --> 01:29:58,920
Speaker 3: You know.

1722
01:29:59,000 --> 01:30:01,439
Speaker 2: It was Bill Barr's father who was the head of

1723
01:30:01,479 --> 01:30:06,559
Speaker 2: that school, who gave Epstein a chance and just really said, yeah,

1724
01:30:06,640 --> 01:30:08,920
Speaker 2: I liked him because he was so charismatic and he

1725
01:30:09,040 --> 01:30:10,000
Speaker 2: was so good at math.

1726
01:30:10,840 --> 01:30:12,000
Speaker 3: Yet here this guy is.

1727
01:30:12,040 --> 01:30:15,120
Speaker 2: He now has access to young women and young people

1728
01:30:15,200 --> 01:30:18,559
Speaker 2: by being this high school starter, and that's allegedly where

1729
01:30:18,600 --> 01:30:22,320
Speaker 2: his relationships begin in terms of meeting the parents of

1730
01:30:22,360 --> 01:30:26,439
Speaker 2: those elite kids in New York City. So he gets

1731
01:30:26,479 --> 01:30:30,160
Speaker 2: dialed into the social scene. This guy's like a grifter, honestly,

1732
01:30:30,320 --> 01:30:35,240
Speaker 2: and he's like haunting the system. Now he's a confidence builder.

1733
01:30:35,240 --> 01:30:37,519
Speaker 2: And then now a Gilainne to the equation who's actually

1734
01:30:37,520 --> 01:30:39,880
Speaker 2: coming in with like relationships.

1735
01:30:39,960 --> 01:30:40,160
Speaker 3: Right.

1736
01:30:41,520 --> 01:30:44,400
Speaker 2: So, now here's the guy that's acting as a con

1737
01:30:45,120 --> 01:30:49,760
Speaker 2: and is razmatizing everybody and maybe somehow, somehow people are

1738
01:30:49,800 --> 01:30:52,000
Speaker 2: throwing a lot of cash in his lap. And now

1739
01:30:52,040 --> 01:30:56,200
Speaker 2: Gilaine has real legitimate connections, which you know we've heard

1740
01:30:56,240 --> 01:30:59,840
Speaker 2: from all of the survivors. She's legitimizing his stick and

1741
01:31:00,120 --> 01:31:04,280
Speaker 2: his abuse. Right, so that becomes the perfect frontman. Now

1742
01:31:04,320 --> 01:31:07,320
Speaker 2: they suddenly seem like they're super sophisticated in West Palm

1743
01:31:07,360 --> 01:31:09,519
Speaker 2: Beach and they were in New York City. In Paris,

1744
01:31:09,680 --> 01:31:12,559
Speaker 2: and and you know, and so on and so on

1745
01:31:12,640 --> 01:31:13,120
Speaker 2: and so on.

1746
01:31:14,760 --> 01:31:17,040
Speaker 3: Is there any world that we live in?

1747
01:31:16,920 --> 01:31:19,040
Speaker 5: And because I don't know the story as well as you,

1748
01:31:19,800 --> 01:31:21,280
Speaker 5: is there And so please don't climb at me.

1749
01:31:21,320 --> 01:31:22,400
Speaker 3: I just I'm asking a question.

1750
01:31:22,520 --> 01:31:24,960
Speaker 5: Is there any world that we live in where Gilaine

1751
01:31:25,080 --> 01:31:26,559
Speaker 5: was like also a victim?

1752
01:31:26,800 --> 01:31:29,559
Speaker 2: Of course, yes, but it still doesn't justify it. Yes,

1753
01:31:29,760 --> 01:31:33,720
Speaker 2: but okay, but let's assume that. Let's assume that they

1754
01:31:33,840 --> 01:31:36,559
Speaker 2: were they were like in a love relationship at one point.

1755
01:31:36,600 --> 01:31:39,080
Speaker 2: You know, Air quotes boyfriend and girlfriend, which seems pretty

1756
01:31:39,080 --> 01:31:41,560
Speaker 2: trivial in the big scheme of it. But they were

1757
01:31:41,600 --> 01:31:44,720
Speaker 2: together at one point, and it's been speculated that she

1758
01:31:45,720 --> 01:31:48,400
Speaker 2: loved Epstein. You know, again, this is the story in

1759
01:31:48,439 --> 01:31:49,680
Speaker 2: the Lifetime.

1760
01:31:49,200 --> 01:31:51,439
Speaker 3: Movie version of this, right, so go with it.

1761
01:31:51,479 --> 01:31:55,080
Speaker 2: But she loses her daddy, you know, he falls and dies,

1762
01:31:55,160 --> 01:32:00,160
Speaker 2: and now she's left penniless and without any man in her.

1763
01:32:00,479 --> 01:32:03,080
Speaker 2: She comes to the US, meets up with Epstein, falls

1764
01:32:03,080 --> 01:32:06,360
Speaker 2: deeply in love with this very charismatic man who is

1765
01:32:06,400 --> 01:32:09,080
Speaker 2: saying all the right things that she needs to hear

1766
01:32:09,160 --> 01:32:12,720
Speaker 2: because she's heartbroken and missing her father. Is at the

1767
01:32:12,760 --> 01:32:16,439
Speaker 2: perfect storm, probably, And then you find out that he's

1768
01:32:16,479 --> 01:32:19,840
Speaker 2: a little awe right, and that he has an insatiable

1769
01:32:19,920 --> 01:32:24,160
Speaker 2: need for young women, and ultimately she out ages that,

1770
01:32:24,880 --> 01:32:28,080
Speaker 2: so she starts feeding the beast and money gets real

1771
01:32:28,439 --> 01:32:33,760
Speaker 2: and you know, wicked begets wicked. But ultimately she did

1772
01:32:33,920 --> 01:32:36,599
Speaker 2: very wicked things for a very very very long time.

1773
01:32:36,680 --> 01:32:39,840
Speaker 2: And when you read the stories of abuse, you're like, Elaine,

1774
01:32:39,840 --> 01:32:40,599
Speaker 2: there's no excuse.

1775
01:32:40,960 --> 01:32:44,240
Speaker 5: Yeah, for sure, No, I definitely. I mean, she's not innocent.

1776
01:32:44,280 --> 01:32:46,639
Speaker 5: I'm not saying that. I just wondered if is there

1777
01:32:46,720 --> 01:32:48,880
Speaker 5: some world that we live in because we know that

1778
01:32:48,960 --> 01:32:53,080
Speaker 5: Epstein used his victims to recruit other victims too, Like yeah,

1779
01:32:53,120 --> 01:32:54,920
Speaker 5: and I just wondered if that was like in any

1780
01:32:55,040 --> 01:32:59,080
Speaker 5: world where Glaine also was one of those girls. But

1781
01:32:59,600 --> 01:33:01,720
Speaker 5: I mean, when did did we know how old she

1782
01:33:01,840 --> 01:33:02,840
Speaker 5: was when they met?

1783
01:33:03,200 --> 01:33:05,719
Speaker 3: She was like in her post college years. I believe

1784
01:33:05,880 --> 01:33:07,439
Speaker 3: like they were like young.

1785
01:33:07,720 --> 01:33:10,920
Speaker 2: No, no, no, it was like hot Rod, like I

1786
01:33:10,960 --> 01:33:15,000
Speaker 2: think the most social light scene in New York City.

1787
01:33:15,240 --> 01:33:18,760
Speaker 2: You know, she had the sickest place on I think

1788
01:33:18,800 --> 01:33:23,080
Speaker 2: it was Fifth Avenue, and you know, opulence and nightclubs.

1789
01:33:23,200 --> 01:33:24,440
Speaker 3: Everybody's doing okay.

1790
01:33:24,840 --> 01:33:29,040
Speaker 2: Everybody's in the scene, right, So she was a part

1791
01:33:29,080 --> 01:33:31,080
Speaker 2: of that and yeah, maybe got tangled up and got

1792
01:33:31,080 --> 01:33:33,559
Speaker 2: in over her head, but that went on for decades

1793
01:33:33,600 --> 01:33:34,160
Speaker 2: and decades.

1794
01:33:35,400 --> 01:33:37,760
Speaker 3: Wo and she was thirty by the way, body when

1795
01:33:37,760 --> 01:33:41,759
Speaker 3: they met. Okay, so yeah, she was way past the young.

1796
01:33:43,840 --> 01:33:46,559
Speaker 4: Her dad had just died, and that was a whole

1797
01:33:46,560 --> 01:33:47,360
Speaker 4: complicated thing.

1798
01:33:47,800 --> 01:33:50,240
Speaker 2: She was an adult woman, you know, for mincing words

1799
01:33:50,280 --> 01:33:55,120
Speaker 2: about it, and you know, we've heard the account she

1800
01:33:55,160 --> 01:33:59,800
Speaker 2: was like flying the helicopter, taking girls directly to you know,

1801
01:34:00,120 --> 01:34:02,280
Speaker 2: or master, if that's how you look at it, knowing

1802
01:34:02,360 --> 01:34:03,920
Speaker 2: full well you're feeding the line.

1803
01:34:04,000 --> 01:34:08,160
Speaker 3: Nasty, nasty, nasty nasty. What a nasty note to leave

1804
01:34:08,160 --> 01:34:09,880
Speaker 3: this one. I can't believe the night is already over.

1805
01:34:10,160 --> 01:34:13,320
Speaker 3: Don't forget tru Crime until True Crime and Chill tomorrow.

1806
01:34:13,400 --> 01:34:17,000
Speaker 2: Make sure everybody tune in and watch the documentary What

1807
01:34:17,120 --> 01:34:17,679
Speaker 2: is it called again?

1808
01:34:17,880 --> 01:34:20,719
Speaker 3: Bileen Quan of The Serial Killers Netflix.

1809
01:34:21,000 --> 01:34:23,839
Speaker 2: Definitely worth the watch, It's a quick one. And Jarrett

1810
01:34:23,880 --> 01:34:25,960
Speaker 2: Farantino joins us tomorrow as.

1811
01:34:25,800 --> 01:34:29,040
Speaker 3: Well for legal chat. Have a great night. We love you.