WEBVTT - We Don't Need No Online Scams 0:00:03.960 --> 0:00:07.000 Get in touch with technology with tex Stuff from how 0:00:07.040 --> 0:00:15.200 Stuff Works dot com. Hey there, everybody, welcome to tech 0:00:15.240 --> 0:00:18.760 Stuff where we're gonna school you. I'm Jonathan Strict and 0:00:18.840 --> 0:00:22.439 I'm Lauren vocal Bomb. Today we're gonna school you where 0:00:22.440 --> 0:00:26.800 we are talking about online universities and jobs and the 0:00:27.560 --> 0:00:29.800 kind of the kind of tangled web they weave that. 0:00:29.960 --> 0:00:31.680 You know, there's there's a lot of scams out there, 0:00:31.680 --> 0:00:34.560 there's a lot of terrific benefits as well. Yeah, there's 0:00:34.600 --> 0:00:37.520 a lot of There's a lot of information to sift through, 0:00:37.520 --> 0:00:41.640 and some of it is misinformation. So consider this episode 0:00:41.680 --> 0:00:45.879 sort of a cautionary tale some some tips that you 0:00:45.880 --> 0:00:48.640 can follow to really kind of make sure that the 0:00:48.680 --> 0:00:51.319 information you're getting is the most accurate and is going 0:00:51.360 --> 0:00:53.639 to be the most advantageous to you. And also keep 0:00:53.680 --> 0:00:56.320 in mind that if you're listening to this episode in 0:00:57.840 --> 0:01:01.720 things probably changed a little bit aborted it. The Internet 0:01:01.800 --> 0:01:04.600 is likely to have changed since then, but that's one 0:01:04.600 --> 0:01:08.360 of those things. We're in this sort of transitory period where, uh, 0:01:08.400 --> 0:01:12.880 you know, business adopted the Internet very quickly, right, didn't 0:01:12.920 --> 0:01:15.639 necessarily do it the right way when it first started. 0:01:15.680 --> 0:01:18.720 That's when we saw that dot Com bubble burst. But they, 0:01:18.880 --> 0:01:20.840 you know, business has kind of figured out how they 0:01:20.840 --> 0:01:23.279 could leverage the Internet in a way that made sense, 0:01:23.360 --> 0:01:27.160 that that bolstered their business and wasn't just like, oh, well, 0:01:27.200 --> 0:01:30.440 we have to have a web presence because that's a thing, right, right, 0:01:30.520 --> 0:01:32.560 But they really had the resources to do so at 0:01:32.560 --> 0:01:35.360 the time, right. And And it's kind of interesting because 0:01:35.400 --> 0:01:37.600 if you think about the Internet started off as an 0:01:37.640 --> 0:01:41.760 academic uh thing, I mean our bonnet. The predecessor to 0:01:41.760 --> 0:01:48.880 the Internet was connection between computers in uh in in universities. So, um, 0:01:49.040 --> 0:01:52.200 the education and the Internet have had a link in 0:01:52.200 --> 0:01:55.160 a for a really long time. But being able to 0:01:55.240 --> 0:01:59.720 use the Internet formally in order to get an education 0:01:59.760 --> 0:02:02.080 in the sense of what we think about when you 0:02:02.120 --> 0:02:05.680 attend a brick and mortar university, that's a newer idea 0:02:05.880 --> 0:02:09.639 and in some cases, uh, it can be a little treacherous. 0:02:09.880 --> 0:02:11.560 So that's why we wanted to talk about. So Lauren, 0:02:11.639 --> 0:02:13.320 you know, I know you looked a lot into the 0:02:13.400 --> 0:02:16.800 online education side. I looked a lot into the online 0:02:16.919 --> 0:02:19.679 jobs side. So this this episode is gonna be a 0:02:19.680 --> 0:02:21.760 little different than the way some of our previous episodes 0:02:21.800 --> 0:02:24.040 have been. Jonathan is going to be talking not to 0:02:24.080 --> 0:02:27.840 the entire time for for nearly fifty of the episode. Yeah, 0:02:27.960 --> 0:02:31.200 don't crazy, Frankly, I don't know what I'm gonna do 0:02:31.240 --> 0:02:33.480 with myself. But actually I do know what I'm gonna do. 0:02:33.520 --> 0:02:35.720 I'm gonna be asking you some questions, Lauren. He also 0:02:35.760 --> 0:02:39.639 brought some knitting. I did, uh, And let me tell you, 0:02:39.800 --> 0:02:43.600 my pearling has become phenomenal. And you knitters out there 0:02:43.840 --> 0:02:47.320 know that I know what I'm talking about. That size 0:02:47.360 --> 0:02:50.520 eight needles, people, size eight circle needles. So you know 0:02:50.520 --> 0:02:54.240 what are you? Pearling? Isn't just a computer pun? Also 0:02:54.280 --> 0:02:56.720 a computer pun? All right? So, now that we've got 0:02:56.720 --> 0:03:00.200 the knitting and computer computer language jokes of the wait, 0:03:00.280 --> 0:03:05.000 let's actually look at the state of affairs and online education. So, 0:03:05.120 --> 0:03:08.760 first of all, Lauren, do you have anything about the 0:03:08.800 --> 0:03:12.440 trend in online courses? Right? So, according to a study 0:03:12.480 --> 0:03:15.639 done by the Sloan Consortium, which, to be fair, promotes 0:03:15.720 --> 0:03:18.720 online education. They but however, they did the study in 0:03:18.720 --> 0:03:23.000 twelve that found that students taking at least one course 0:03:23.080 --> 0:03:26.480 online numbered above six point seven million in the U 0:03:26.560 --> 0:03:29.520 s alone. All Right, so that's a lot of people, 0:03:29.600 --> 0:03:31.480 and and I'm sure that a lot of this is 0:03:31.480 --> 0:03:33.840 students who are in fact attending a brick and mortar 0:03:33.840 --> 0:03:37.760 school and taking one specific course online. However, this is 0:03:37.760 --> 0:03:40.040 a trend that's been growing since the early two thousands, 0:03:40.080 --> 0:03:45.000 when universities began offering these online programs, and it became 0:03:45.320 --> 0:03:49.120 a little bit, like you said earlier, treacherous because as 0:03:49.200 --> 0:03:50.840 of as of two thousand and eight, a study found 0:03:50.840 --> 0:03:53.560 that there were a hundred and sixty eight accredited graduate 0:03:53.600 --> 0:03:57.480 business schools and a two hundred and twelve fake ones. 0:03:58.360 --> 0:04:01.360 So there are these fake schools out there that people 0:04:01.400 --> 0:04:05.000 could end up sending money to or enrolling in some way. 0:04:05.320 --> 0:04:07.400 And you know, we also should say, like, there's there's 0:04:07.400 --> 0:04:10.640 another term for online courses of people call it distance learning. 0:04:11.280 --> 0:04:15.040 The the idea that you are are essentially logging into 0:04:15.200 --> 0:04:20.000 some sort of um educational resource and you are not 0:04:20.320 --> 0:04:24.760 physically attending that university. So let me ask, what are 0:04:24.880 --> 0:04:26.640 some of that you know, you talked about a fake 0:04:26.800 --> 0:04:29.520 business school, what are some of the dangers associated with 0:04:29.560 --> 0:04:33.440 this online coursework trend. Well, um, they're they're called diploma 0:04:33.480 --> 0:04:36.440 mills because the general process of this is that you 0:04:36.640 --> 0:04:39.120 pay them for a diploma. You might take a test, 0:04:39.200 --> 0:04:41.840 you might take a tiny bit of course work, probably not, 0:04:42.120 --> 0:04:44.480 and they just mill you a diploma and go, congratulations, 0:04:44.520 --> 0:04:46.920 you're a doctor. So this is kind of the educational 0:04:47.040 --> 0:04:51.800 counterpart to the Universal Life Church online, that resource where 0:04:51.839 --> 0:04:55.040 you go, you fill out a form and magically you're ordained. Right, sure, 0:04:55.120 --> 0:04:57.880 except for the fact that you can when when you're 0:04:57.920 --> 0:05:00.520 ordained by the Universal Life Church, that can be a 0:05:00.600 --> 0:05:05.000 legal document that you can use. The educational degrees degrees 0:05:05.120 --> 0:05:07.440 is in little floating quote marks in the air are 0:05:07.480 --> 0:05:12.880 not always accredited, right, So they're they're not true credentials, correct, 0:05:13.000 --> 0:05:16.920 there they are fake credentials from a fake university frequently 0:05:17.000 --> 0:05:19.840 that has some kind of crazy offshore account and exists 0:05:19.880 --> 0:05:23.600 only to take your money and or to provide other 0:05:23.720 --> 0:05:26.880 scammers with with the method of getting a job that 0:05:26.920 --> 0:05:30.840 they don't necessarily deserve. Okay, So so there's there's two 0:05:30.880 --> 0:05:32.800 sides to this coin. Really there's there There are people 0:05:32.920 --> 0:05:36.159 who are dishonest people who are using these services to 0:05:36.200 --> 0:05:39.480 obtain fake credentials, and honest people who are being taken in, 0:05:40.800 --> 0:05:45.520 people who who legitimately want to pursue an education and 0:05:45.560 --> 0:05:48.920 potentially a career in a specific field. But really all 0:05:48.920 --> 0:05:51.400 they're doing is handing money over and getting a sheet 0:05:51.440 --> 0:05:54.080 of paper that says here's your that's completely worthless. And 0:05:54.279 --> 0:05:56.080 when you end up taking that too, you know, if 0:05:56.279 --> 0:05:58.000 you get high school diploma this way and you take 0:05:58.040 --> 0:05:59.960 it to a university, the university is going to say, like, 0:06:00.080 --> 0:06:02.479 that is not really a diploma. You cannot go here 0:06:03.120 --> 0:06:05.640 or or to an employer, and the employer says the 0:06:05.640 --> 0:06:07.800 same thing. Because there are lots of resources where people 0:06:07.800 --> 0:06:10.480 can check this sort of thing out. Yeah, so that's 0:06:10.600 --> 0:06:14.000 that's scary stuff. I mean, and it's kind of crazy 0:06:14.040 --> 0:06:16.240 to me because I think this is just it's a 0:06:16.279 --> 0:06:18.240 weird middleman, because you would think if you're trying to 0:06:18.279 --> 0:06:22.440 scam people, you could just print up your own I 0:06:22.440 --> 0:06:25.680 guess you would technically be on like some some fake 0:06:25.800 --> 0:06:29.240 schools enrollment form, but you would And and that's the 0:06:29.279 --> 0:06:31.440 thing that part of the service that these that these 0:06:31.480 --> 0:06:34.120 scammers provide is that you know, they'll they'll have a 0:06:34.160 --> 0:06:36.960 phone system that you know, that an employer could call 0:06:37.040 --> 0:06:39.040 into and if they don't really do their research, if 0:06:39.040 --> 0:06:41.200 they just call this phone number, then they would say, yes, 0:06:41.200 --> 0:06:44.120 this person totally went here is this super accredited school. 0:06:44.160 --> 0:06:47.360 Thank you? Um, and so so do you have any 0:06:47.800 --> 0:06:50.359 examples of some of these crazy things that have happened 0:06:50.360 --> 0:06:53.680 with Yeah, there's some terrible, terrible horror stories from from 0:06:53.680 --> 0:06:55.320 the news. You can you can look them up and 0:06:55.400 --> 0:06:59.200 they're they're really sensational and wonderful. A lot of a 0:06:59.200 --> 0:07:01.839 lot of websites very much enjoyed, I think covering these 0:07:01.839 --> 0:07:04.720 sorts of things. Back in back in two thousand one, 0:07:04.960 --> 0:07:08.960 UM one Gregory Kaplinger claimed that he had a medical 0:07:08.960 --> 0:07:12.040 degree and got a whole bunch of not just patients 0:07:12.040 --> 0:07:15.360 but also investors on board with this AIDS and cancer 0:07:15.600 --> 0:07:19.960 treatment gosh research that he was claiming to do. UM 0:07:20.320 --> 0:07:22.440 wound up being ordered to pay more than a million 0:07:22.480 --> 0:07:26.280 dollars in restitution. Thank goodness. Yeah, oh no, no, I mean, 0:07:26.320 --> 0:07:28.920 I mean, you know his uh because because as it 0:07:28.960 --> 0:07:32.600 turned out, he his medical degree was from the Metropolitan 0:07:32.720 --> 0:07:36.760 Collegiate Institute in Great Britain, which he paid a hundred 0:07:36.800 --> 0:07:40.720 dollars for a diploma from. So, I mean, think about 0:07:40.720 --> 0:07:43.040 this for a second. Guys. We're talking about someone who 0:07:43.120 --> 0:07:46.080 was taking advantage of people who are, by the very 0:07:46.160 --> 0:07:49.040 nature of the disease that they or a loved one has, 0:07:49.520 --> 0:07:54.400 are an incredibly emotionally vulnerable state. And uh, that's also 0:07:54.400 --> 0:07:56.120 going to come into play when I talk in my 0:07:56.200 --> 0:08:00.720 section about online jobs. Um. I get really be angry 0:08:00.760 --> 0:08:02.840 about a few things, and this is one of those 0:08:02.840 --> 0:08:06.000 things that I get exceptionally angry about is the taking 0:08:06.000 --> 0:08:10.000 advantage of people who are at their lowest point when 0:08:10.040 --> 0:08:14.680 it comes to their emotional vulnerability, and anyone who is 0:08:14.720 --> 0:08:18.280 willing to catalyze on that, I just I can't. I 0:08:18.320 --> 0:08:23.600 can't fathom that level of disregard for someone else's you know, 0:08:23.840 --> 0:08:26.400 well being. Yeah, this was one of the stories. This 0:08:26.480 --> 0:08:29.120 is one of the episodes in doing the research for it. 0:08:29.160 --> 0:08:31.600 Every time that I would come to the examples portion 0:08:31.680 --> 0:08:34.240 of any of these articles, I would have to brace myself. 0:08:34.280 --> 0:08:36.679 I drank a lot of coffee today and kind of 0:08:36.720 --> 0:08:42.720 to to bolster my own you gotta you gotta muscle through. Yeah. Well, 0:08:42.960 --> 0:08:45.520 I've decided to get off my soapbox until the second 0:08:45.559 --> 0:08:49.520 half of the show, So pray continue excellent. Um. So 0:08:49.600 --> 0:08:52.000 you know he was brought to justice, which is wonderful. 0:08:52.200 --> 0:08:56.120 Um On on the other end of it, um Uh, 0:08:56.559 --> 0:08:59.520 there there are stories about you know, people who who 0:09:00.000 --> 0:09:04.800 we're nurses, who had never gotten their high school degree 0:09:04.840 --> 0:09:07.960 because they had dropped out for for very very visceral 0:09:08.080 --> 0:09:13.160 personal life reasons, who decided to pay two dollars or 0:09:13.200 --> 0:09:15.760 four dollars for a degree that they really thought was 0:09:15.800 --> 0:09:19.560 going to advance their life. UM to institutions like for 0:09:19.559 --> 0:09:23.280 for example, and I haven't I haven't UM confirmed whether 0:09:23.360 --> 0:09:25.880 or not these are still an operation, but some names 0:09:25.880 --> 0:09:29.240 that were floating around UH a few years back include 0:09:29.240 --> 0:09:33.959 Belford University, Jefferson High School Online, um vents or high 0:09:34.000 --> 0:09:37.720 School Online and these these places, you know, again, would 0:09:37.760 --> 0:09:40.800 would take your money, shift you a diploma, give you 0:09:40.840 --> 0:09:44.560 a very basic online test, usually UM claiming that you 0:09:44.559 --> 0:09:48.280 could use your life experience on a multiple choice test 0:09:48.520 --> 0:09:51.199 that you could go back and and if you've got 0:09:51.200 --> 0:09:52.839 an answer wrong, it would let you go back and 0:09:52.880 --> 0:09:55.840 try again, and give you a hint gosh, saying that 0:09:55.960 --> 0:10:00.560 somehow that's the equivalent of the actual educational process, right UM, 0:10:00.640 --> 0:10:03.120 and then send you a diploma and and yeah, these 0:10:03.160 --> 0:10:05.560 people were these people were taken in and before you know, 0:10:05.559 --> 0:10:08.760 they just wanted it so badly that that they were 0:10:08.760 --> 0:10:11.360 willing to believe in this process because they, you know, 0:10:11.400 --> 0:10:14.800 they needed something to be easy, right Yeah. And again 0:10:14.920 --> 0:10:17.080 that's another one of those things it's true on the 0:10:17.080 --> 0:10:20.200 online jobs as well, very much so. Is that it's 0:10:20.240 --> 0:10:22.920 that old saying that we've it's become a cliche, but 0:10:22.960 --> 0:10:25.480 it is still true. If it sounds too good to 0:10:25.480 --> 0:10:30.000 be true, it probably is. So if someone tells you that, hey, 0:10:30.080 --> 0:10:33.800 you know, taking this one little online test is equivalent 0:10:33.840 --> 0:10:36.720 to finishing out your high school years after you dropped out, 0:10:36.720 --> 0:10:39.800 that's just not true. For one thing, you don't have 0:10:39.840 --> 0:10:43.959 that experience of all the pep rallies that's all important, 0:10:44.000 --> 0:10:45.840 all important pepper rillies. There were a lot of pep 0:10:45.920 --> 0:10:47.520 rallies when I was in high school. I went to 0:10:47.640 --> 0:10:50.360 way too many pepper rillies. I was not very peppy, 0:10:50.520 --> 0:10:52.800 so it didn't speak to me. I'm pretty sure I 0:10:52.800 --> 0:10:54.840 was covering them for for my yearbook, so so I 0:10:54.840 --> 0:10:57.480 could kind of Daria over in the corner with of course, 0:10:57.520 --> 0:10:59.240 I was on the yearbook with my camera and kind 0:10:59.240 --> 0:11:02.520 of be very loose from above the entire thing. But 0:11:02.559 --> 0:11:05.560 this is all but so, you know, I think things 0:11:05.600 --> 0:11:07.040 to watch out for in these kind of things are 0:11:07.080 --> 0:11:09.080 are you know, A lot of these places are registered 0:11:09.120 --> 0:11:12.520 through a service like domains by Proxy, which allows which 0:11:12.520 --> 0:11:15.439 is a service that allows the original registrant of a 0:11:15.679 --> 0:11:18.880 URL to hide who they are. Ye, so if you 0:11:18.960 --> 0:11:20.960 do a who is look up on this, you're not 0:11:20.960 --> 0:11:23.640 going to find a whole lot of information, exactly. It's 0:11:23.679 --> 0:11:27.000 not a great sign. Never a good sign for anything, honestly, 0:11:27.080 --> 0:11:30.160 not only online education. I mean, unless you're looking for 0:11:30.320 --> 0:11:34.520 some sort of proxy server. Uh that's probably not a 0:11:34.559 --> 0:11:37.280 great sign. Yeah, not not a good sign of trustworthiness. Um, 0:11:37.440 --> 0:11:39.839 most of their physical addresses are outside of the US 0:11:40.000 --> 0:11:43.320 or you know, your home country of choice and uh 0:11:43.520 --> 0:11:47.520 so which which especially? I mean the US educational system 0:11:47.760 --> 0:11:52.120 is a strange thing because it does not directly give 0:11:52.160 --> 0:11:56.360 credit to colleges and universities as being legitimate. But there 0:11:56.400 --> 0:11:59.320 are a lot of a lot of smaller regional UM 0:11:59.600 --> 0:12:04.520 body that it does recognize as being official creditors. Gotcha. 0:12:04.679 --> 0:12:08.080 So there's not like a centralized authority that is the 0:12:08.679 --> 0:12:11.800 gives the stamp of approval or disapproval. Right but in 0:12:11.840 --> 0:12:14.360 but in any case, um, if you are talking about 0:12:14.480 --> 0:12:18.480 an online university that claims to be giving us credit 0:12:18.600 --> 0:12:21.360 or claims to to have to be in the registry 0:12:21.400 --> 0:12:24.120 to give us credit, and its main office is outside 0:12:24.160 --> 0:12:27.600 of the US, that is a big warning sign. And 0:12:28.040 --> 0:12:31.760 all of these things kind of also tie into concerns 0:12:32.200 --> 0:12:36.240 in the educational system about for profit colleges. Okay, yeah, 0:12:36.240 --> 0:12:39.800 I've seen commercials for these, right, I've I've seen commercials 0:12:39.800 --> 0:12:43.319 on uh television. I've seen ads on like the public 0:12:43.360 --> 0:12:47.439 transportation system here in Atlanta. Yeah, places like University of Phoenix. Yeah, 0:12:47.480 --> 0:12:49.840 that's the one that always I always see. And uh 0:12:50.040 --> 0:12:54.800 so these are these are for profit colleges, right, right, 0:12:54.840 --> 0:12:58.200 as opposed to public schools or or even or even 0:12:58.520 --> 0:13:03.200 you know, private schools that are nonetheless educational institutions. Right. 0:13:03.240 --> 0:13:05.960 So this, this is this is more of a kind 0:13:05.960 --> 0:13:10.960 of a privatized, for profit approach as far as educating 0:13:11.000 --> 0:13:15.079 people goes. Honestly, I don't know very much about it. 0:13:15.240 --> 0:13:17.800 What can you tell me about these? Well? Okay, so, 0:13:17.800 --> 0:13:20.760 so it's not that it's not that they're not educational institutions. 0:13:20.840 --> 0:13:25.719 They do provide a rigorous coursework um through which you 0:13:25.760 --> 0:13:30.440 can earn a degree um which will, depending on the case, 0:13:30.760 --> 0:13:35.320 be accepted by other educational institutions and employers. I see. 0:13:35.360 --> 0:13:38.199 So if you were to go to some of these, uh, 0:13:38.720 --> 0:13:41.440 depending on the case, you might be able to, let's say, 0:13:41.600 --> 0:13:44.959 spend a year taking university of Phoenix courses and then 0:13:44.960 --> 0:13:49.559 maybe transfer into another school. And depending upon this relationship, 0:13:49.760 --> 0:13:54.280 those credits could be accepted as UH as transfer credits. 0:13:54.400 --> 0:13:57.240 They they could be Yes, sometimes it depends, It depends 0:13:57.240 --> 0:14:00.480 on the school they're they're generally looked on, looked upon 0:14:00.559 --> 0:14:05.760 as being less desirable than an education from a nonprofit 0:14:06.360 --> 0:14:09.720 college Brick and Water College. Yes, UM, they're Also they 0:14:09.760 --> 0:14:12.480 tend to be more expensive. There was this terrific study 0:14:12.520 --> 0:14:15.160 that was done by the US Government Accountability Office back 0:14:15.200 --> 0:14:19.840 in UM in which they sent undercover applicants to fifteen 0:14:19.920 --> 0:14:25.840 four profit colleges and UM in terms of expenses, for example, 0:14:25.840 --> 0:14:30.240 a student who was interested in massage therapy, UH not 0:14:30.240 --> 0:14:33.040 not you know, an incredibly rigorous four year plan, but 0:14:33.040 --> 0:14:36.080 but just a certificate would have cost fourteen thousand dollars 0:14:36.120 --> 0:14:38.440 at a four profit college and the same certificate from 0:14:38.440 --> 0:14:41.040 a local community college would have cost five and twenty bucks. 0:14:42.360 --> 0:14:45.600 That that is incredible, And it would have cost a 0:14:45.600 --> 0:14:48.680 tiny bit more from a from a private school. However, 0:14:48.720 --> 0:14:52.840 not that much, I mean within the same range. UM. 0:14:53.440 --> 0:14:56.440 That kind of that kind of shenanigans. And also they 0:14:56.520 --> 0:15:00.400 found that UM four of the colleges UH own write 0:15:00.480 --> 0:15:04.120 encouraged fraudulent practices. Uh, it encouraged applicants to lie in 0:15:04.200 --> 0:15:08.280 order to get federal aid. Um. And all fifteen made 0:15:08.280 --> 0:15:13.200 deceptive or otherwise questionable statements to these undercover applicants. Yum, 0:15:13.640 --> 0:15:18.360 that's that is not that's not a ringing endorsement. It's not. 0:15:18.400 --> 0:15:21.600 I mean, stuff like like staff would tell the applicants, um, 0:15:21.920 --> 0:15:24.479 what would inform the applicants that they would be attending 0:15:24.880 --> 0:15:28.960 twelve month year classes, you know, you know, classes every 0:15:28.960 --> 0:15:31.480 month of the year, um, but would state the costs 0:15:31.520 --> 0:15:35.360 for attendance for only nine months um in order to 0:15:35.480 --> 0:15:37.440 mislead them about the amount of money that they would 0:15:37.440 --> 0:15:39.160 be spending. And so you would have a three month 0:15:39.280 --> 0:15:43.680 surcharge added on top. Yikes. Yeah, it's just I mean, 0:15:43.720 --> 0:15:45.280 you know, and this is kind of phat logic. It's 0:15:45.320 --> 0:15:48.600 just if you're not paying direct attention, right, if you 0:15:48.640 --> 0:15:50.960 don't know that lying to you, if you don't ask 0:15:50.960 --> 0:15:54.680 the right questions, it's just like the genie. If you 0:15:54.760 --> 0:15:58.600 don't frame the wish just right, you're gonna get the 0:15:58.640 --> 0:16:01.640 worst end of that deal. Yeah, and uh, and other 0:16:01.920 --> 0:16:06.040 stuff like um. Once once applicants, these these undercover applicants 0:16:06.040 --> 0:16:08.880 had registered with websites that are designed to link for 0:16:09.000 --> 0:16:12.720 profit colleges with prospective students. UM. They began receiving phone 0:16:12.720 --> 0:16:16.600 calls within five minutes UM. One of them received more 0:16:16.600 --> 0:16:20.080 than a hundred and eighty phone calls in a month UM, 0:16:20.160 --> 0:16:25.120 some after eleven PM. So they were essentially getting harassed. Yeah, 0:16:25.560 --> 0:16:28.080 and and just you know, just not not good stuff. 0:16:28.120 --> 0:16:30.880 And especially since enrollment in these for profit colleges had 0:16:30.920 --> 0:16:34.360 grown from about three hundred sixty five thousand students to 0:16:34.480 --> 0:16:37.960 almost one point eight million in several years leading up 0:16:37.960 --> 0:16:40.800 to the study in two, it was something that the 0:16:40.800 --> 0:16:43.560 government was very concerned about in terms of just what 0:16:43.680 --> 0:16:46.680 kind of quality of education these students were getting and 0:16:46.680 --> 0:16:49.560 how they were being treated, and whether or not it 0:16:49.600 --> 0:16:51.480 was it was worth their time or money at all. UM. 0:16:51.520 --> 0:16:54.600 I read another interesting article one that you sent me actually, Jonathan, 0:16:54.640 --> 0:16:58.240 about a students experience experience at the University of Phoenix 0:16:58.760 --> 0:17:01.720 and um and and it and it didn't seem positive. 0:17:02.280 --> 0:17:04.639 Now to be fair, of this person who went through 0:17:04.680 --> 0:17:09.600 the University of Phoenix program had already achieved her degree 0:17:09.920 --> 0:17:13.280 and then some right she she had already taught in 0:17:13.400 --> 0:17:15.960 creative writing, which was her field, and she went through 0:17:15.960 --> 0:17:19.200 this degree, it sounded like, um, mostly to get more 0:17:19.880 --> 0:17:23.199 more computer experience. Since it was an online course, it 0:17:23.240 --> 0:17:25.600 seems like that was mostly her goal, and I think 0:17:25.600 --> 0:17:28.600 that she achieved that goal, um, but she just didn't. 0:17:29.200 --> 0:17:31.840 I didn't have the feeling that someone who was going 0:17:31.880 --> 0:17:35.000 through it for the creative writing experience would have gotten 0:17:35.280 --> 0:17:38.159 much of anything. To be fair, we should also say 0:17:38.200 --> 0:17:41.960 that she expressed on the very outset that she had 0:17:42.000 --> 0:17:45.199 a little bit of a bias against online learning and 0:17:45.240 --> 0:17:48.520 that she felt that it's really hard to replace the 0:17:48.560 --> 0:17:52.520 experience of being face to face with professors and other 0:17:52.600 --> 0:17:56.760 students in a traditional learning environment. So let's you know, 0:17:56.840 --> 0:17:59.960 she definitely did have already a kind of a preconceived idea. 0:18:00.119 --> 0:18:03.719 Now whether or not that was based in uh, you know, 0:18:04.160 --> 0:18:07.280 in fact or just her her her own personal I 0:18:07.600 --> 0:18:09.680 think that it was very much based in her own 0:18:09.720 --> 0:18:12.600 personal information. Because there was a study done in two 0:18:12.600 --> 0:18:15.119 thousand nine by s r I International for the Department 0:18:15.160 --> 0:18:19.560 of Education that found that on average, online students performed 0:18:19.640 --> 0:18:23.920 better than face to face students in quantitative studies of 0:18:23.960 --> 0:18:28.160 both K through twelve and college education course. That's pretty incredible. 0:18:28.160 --> 0:18:32.960 I mean that that tells a very strong story right there. So, um, 0:18:33.000 --> 0:18:35.639 all right, so we've got we've got the quality of 0:18:35.680 --> 0:18:40.160 the education itself seems to be pretty uh pretty rigorous, 0:18:40.359 --> 0:18:42.840 Like it's pretty good quality of the education for at 0:18:42.880 --> 0:18:45.040 least at least some of these schools. Well well this 0:18:45.040 --> 0:18:47.800 this isn't necessarily talking about those for profit colleges, but 0:18:47.800 --> 0:18:51.320 but but for online education in general, Um, we want 0:18:51.359 --> 0:18:53.720 to make it really clear that if the online education 0:18:53.840 --> 0:18:58.000 is through a good school, then it's probably fine. I mean, 0:18:58.000 --> 0:19:01.280 there there are plenty of completely a gentimate universities. Um 0:19:01.400 --> 0:19:04.320 Duke University has an MBA program for people all over 0:19:04.400 --> 0:19:06.800 the world who you never have to set foot into school, 0:19:06.880 --> 0:19:09.840 and it is it is very prestigious. And and then 0:19:09.880 --> 0:19:13.280 there's also I mean this isn't for college credit, but 0:19:13.320 --> 0:19:15.800 there are also lots of resources out there where if 0:19:15.840 --> 0:19:17.480 you want to take a class from m i T, 0:19:18.359 --> 0:19:20.600 you can get access to all the coursework, you can 0:19:20.640 --> 0:19:24.200 get access to the lectures, you can follow courses that 0:19:24.240 --> 0:19:27.000 are taught at m I T and other other colleges 0:19:27.040 --> 0:19:28.399 as well. I'm just using m i T as an 0:19:28.440 --> 0:19:31.320 example because I've actually used that. I've used chemistry courses 0:19:31.320 --> 0:19:33.040 in m I T to help get a better understanding 0:19:33.080 --> 0:19:36.240 of chemistry. And obviously I'm not getting any sort of 0:19:36.240 --> 0:19:37.919 credit towards that. I'm not going to get a degree 0:19:37.960 --> 0:19:40.080 in chemistry from m I T because I'm doing this, 0:19:40.560 --> 0:19:44.080 but I get the benefit of that information and the expertise. Yeah, 0:19:44.119 --> 0:19:47.440 this is called continuing education and UM, and it's a wonderful, 0:19:47.480 --> 0:19:51.200 wonderful thing that is harder to scam people on because 0:19:51.200 --> 0:19:53.400 you're not paying any money on the outset, right, Yeah, 0:19:53.440 --> 0:19:55.879 it tends to be like M I T. Stuff is free, 0:19:56.040 --> 0:19:58.800 so most most universities, well that is that is a 0:19:58.840 --> 0:20:01.480 really good If you are just doing continuing education, you 0:20:01.520 --> 0:20:04.040 should probably not have to pay for that unless you 0:20:04.040 --> 0:20:06.960 are actually going into a brick and mortar right right, right, yeah, 0:20:07.000 --> 0:20:11.399 if you're actually paying for the facilities and the textbooks 0:20:11.400 --> 0:20:13.679 and all that kind of stuff. Right. Um. But so 0:20:13.800 --> 0:20:16.959 if if you are trying to look for UM for 0:20:17.200 --> 0:20:20.240 online education you're wondering whether it's legitimate or not, there 0:20:20.280 --> 0:20:22.760 are a few really great resources that you can go to. UM. 0:20:23.400 --> 0:20:26.160 First is to just search with the Better Business Bureau UM, 0:20:26.200 --> 0:20:31.320 which is at www dot BBB dot org UM, and uh, 0:20:31.359 --> 0:20:33.400 just just type a name. There's a lot of information 0:20:33.440 --> 0:20:35.639 out there about a lot of these scammers that we 0:20:35.640 --> 0:20:38.200 were talking about. Keeping in mind that this is all 0:20:38.240 --> 0:20:40.639 based on what people have reported. There's it's not like 0:20:40.680 --> 0:20:43.840 it's a governmental agency. It's not no no, but um, 0:20:43.880 --> 0:20:46.040 but you know other people have had problems with this 0:20:46.080 --> 0:20:49.680 particular school, then that's probably a red flag. UM. You 0:20:49.720 --> 0:20:53.320 can also go to UM O, P E dot E 0:20:53.520 --> 0:20:58.640 D dot gov slash accreditation UM and UH and use 0:20:58.760 --> 0:21:02.280 that to see whether this is a federal government website, 0:21:02.320 --> 0:21:06.040 a Department of Education website that's going to list all 0:21:06.080 --> 0:21:11.840 of the all of the various accreditation bodies report into 0:21:11.880 --> 0:21:15.560 it about the schools that they have accredited, and so 0:21:15.560 --> 0:21:17.359 so this is a database of right. So if if 0:21:17.400 --> 0:21:19.680 the school you're looking at is non that list, that's 0:21:19.720 --> 0:21:21.800 a huge red flag. That is a huge red flag. 0:21:21.800 --> 0:21:24.000 Even if the school is on the list. Um. You 0:21:24.000 --> 0:21:25.840 you know, just just kind of kind of think ahead, 0:21:25.880 --> 0:21:28.359 think as far ahead as possible. Try to check with 0:21:28.400 --> 0:21:31.040 other people in the industry, Check with the universities that 0:21:31.080 --> 0:21:34.280 you might want to pursue graduate graduate degree from, and 0:21:34.280 --> 0:21:36.720 and check and make sure that your class work is 0:21:36.760 --> 0:21:40.240 going to transfer. It will not always and and I've 0:21:40.400 --> 0:21:43.320 you know, I think everyone knows someone who's had that problem, 0:21:43.359 --> 0:21:47.320 and it is um Also internationally, you can check with 0:21:47.320 --> 0:21:51.800 the Council for Higher Education Accreditation at www dot c 0:21:52.200 --> 0:21:56.119 h e A dot org. Awesome. So those are some 0:21:56.160 --> 0:21:59.000 great resources that people can use so that they can 0:21:59.040 --> 0:22:01.080 make sure that the money that they are going to 0:22:01.119 --> 0:22:05.600 dedicate towards their education actually goes to a legitimate education. 0:22:06.040 --> 0:22:09.200