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Speaker 1: The Book of Joe podcast is a production of iHeartRadio.

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Speaker 2: Hey There, welcome back.

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Speaker 3: It's the latest episode of the Book of Joe podcast

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Speaker 3: and it's the Winter Meeting edition. It's me and Tom Berducci,

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Speaker 3: Joe Madden and Joe. We once again we never run

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Speaker 3: out of things to talk about when it comes to

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Speaker 3: one of your former players, Show Hey Otani, the talk

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Speaker 3: of the Winter Meetings.

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Speaker 2: Where will he sign?

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Speaker 3: And there has been a lot of buzz recently about

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Speaker 3: the Toronto Blue Jays. On the face of it, Joe,

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Speaker 3: it sounds like, well, where did that come from? But

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Speaker 3: the more you think about it, the more that it

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Speaker 3: makes sense that sho he Otani might actually wind up

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Speaker 3: signing with the Toronto Blue Jays. So give me your

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Speaker 3: first reactions when you heard about this, Joe, the possible

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Speaker 3: connection of Show Hey and the Jays.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, like you're saying, it's likely, it's not impossible. First

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Speaker 4: of all, it's an international city. I think that might

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Speaker 4: appeal to him a lot. I think there's a different

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Speaker 4: vibe when you're in Canada obviously to the United States.

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Speaker 4: And I'm certain and I know there is a really

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Speaker 4: strong kind of Asian rim population there that he could

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Speaker 4: really identify with right down to the fare of the food,

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Speaker 4: So that does it surprise. The other part would be

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Speaker 4: that ballpark. Then he could put up some numbers in

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Speaker 4: that ballpark. Offensively, that is a hitter's paradise. It's domed

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Speaker 4: the weather. It's always going to be good. When it

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Speaker 4: comes down to the travel situation, you know, dealing with

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Speaker 4: going in and out of the country, going through all

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Speaker 4: that stuff, He's used to it. He's used to going

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Speaker 4: through customs and things like that, So I don't know

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Speaker 4: that that really bothersome to him, you know, the tax situation.

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Speaker 4: I don't even know what that looks like for him

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Speaker 4: coming from Japan. But nevertheless, this is another country for

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Speaker 4: him to conquer, you know, really this fan base there

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Speaker 4: and the fact that all these Canadians would fall in

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Speaker 4: love with the instantaneously, And like I said, I really

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Speaker 4: think he will work in easily to the culture. They're

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Speaker 4: finally the team itself hasn't went yet. There's a lot

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Speaker 4: there for him to like, so it's not surprising. Like

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Speaker 4: I said, right down to the ballpark, not the best

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Speaker 4: place in the world to pitch, but he misses bats,

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Speaker 4: that's different. But to hit the ball there. It just

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Speaker 4: doesn't come down.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I want to do a deep, deep dive on

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Speaker 3: this because you mentioned the fact that it's an international city.

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Speaker 3: There's no question about it's actually a very big market there.

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Speaker 3: Back in the hey day, when the Blue Jays were

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Speaker 3: winning back to back World Series, they were pumping in

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Speaker 3: forty nine thousand people a night in what was called

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Speaker 3: the sky Dompe back then.

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Speaker 2: Fan base there, it's there.

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Speaker 3: I think there's an upside what they've done here, Joe

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Speaker 3: is they built a one hundred million dollar training complex

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Speaker 3: in Florida, and they're in the process of a three

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Speaker 3: hundred million dollar renovation to the Rogers Center.

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Speaker 2: You saw some of that last year.

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Speaker 3: They're working on things this winter to turn it more

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Speaker 3: into a ballpark rather than a multi purpose sports facility. Now,

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Speaker 3: you know that Angels facility that sho Hay has been

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Speaker 3: using in spring training is one of the most outdated

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Speaker 3: in baseball, right and you also know that sho Hay

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Speaker 3: is very tech oriented.

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Speaker 2: He wants cutting edge.

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Speaker 3: I could see him being blown away by the facility

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Speaker 3: in Daned and Florida blue Jays have and what they

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Speaker 3: have planned for Rogers Center in Toronto. Those things matter

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Speaker 3: you're also talking about a team that is owned by

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Speaker 3: a giant I mean giant media and telecommunications company. They

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Speaker 3: essentially are They are a baseball's team in Canada. They

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Speaker 3: own the country essentially, right. You see when the Blue

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Speaker 3: Jays play in Vancouver, blue Jays fans are turning out,

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Speaker 3: coming across the board to watch that team. He would

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Speaker 3: be the face of the country when it comes to baseball.

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Speaker 3: And I think if you're talking about the Dodgers, yeah,

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Speaker 3: I love the fact that slided in between Mookie Bets

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Speaker 3: and Freddy Freeman. I want to see that that team

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Speaker 3: play one hundred and sixty two games to win every year.

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Speaker 3: The money, everything's there for show. Hey, But again, we're

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Speaker 3: talking about a guy, and Joe you know this better

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Speaker 3: than anybody. He wants to car of his own path.

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Speaker 3: I think if he goes to the Dodgers, right, And

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Speaker 3: I still think there's a chance he goes to the

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Speaker 3: Dodgers because everything they can offer him is what he likes.

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Speaker 3: Southern California, nice weather, chance to win every year.

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Speaker 2: I get it.

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Speaker 3: But he's just another car on the train, if you will.

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Speaker 3: Whereas if he goes to the Blue Jays, who haven't

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Speaker 3: won a championship here two decades.

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Speaker 2: He's the face of the franchise.

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Speaker 3: He is the franchise, And it wouldn't surprise me if

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Speaker 3: Rogers Communications can find a way to get him more

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Speaker 3: money by actually having him on their payroll as.

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Speaker 2: A corporate entity. Who would you?

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Speaker 3: I mean, you mentioned this, Joe, he is an international superstar.

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Speaker 3: If you're Rogers, don't you want show hey representing your

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Speaker 3: telecommunications business selling phones, cable internet, whatever it is. I

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Speaker 3: think there's a lot of reasons here corporately and from

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Speaker 3: a baseball perspective why the Jays makes sense for showing It's.

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Speaker 4: Almost like he'll immediately cause the Raptors to become moot,

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Speaker 4: the maple Leafs, the Canadians, all the different. I mean,

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Speaker 4: actually does to be an opportunity for baseball to actually

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Speaker 4: supplant almost hockey as being somewhat of the national pastime

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Speaker 4: there just by his presence alone. I mean, what it'll

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Speaker 4: do to just the selling of the game itself. Kids

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Speaker 4: wanting to become baseball players all of a sudden. I'm

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Speaker 4: really curious about that. I think his influence would be

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Speaker 4: that far reaching. He's not afraid of that stuff. He

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Speaker 4: handles it extremely well. His ability to kind of remain

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Speaker 4: in his own cocoon while he's making all this impact.

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Speaker 4: It's incredible. I've I don't think I've ever seen him flustered.

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Speaker 4: I can't say I've never seen him at a loss

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Speaker 4: for words because he doesn't necessarily communicate in English, although

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Speaker 4: I believe he understands, but he's kind of like he's

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Speaker 4: seamless and everything that he does. So all of these considerations,

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Speaker 4: like you're saying, from the Rogers' perspective, I don't even know,

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Speaker 4: like you know, they probably think they could easily write

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Speaker 4: the biggest check because, like you're saying, the return is

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Speaker 4: going to be greater than possibly anywhere else, just based

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Speaker 4: on this entire country buying into the Toronto Blue Jays

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Speaker 4: talk about America's team, it's Canada's team overnight, So all

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Speaker 4: these things have to have been discussed right now. I

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Speaker 4: didn't realize the extent I might even take a ride

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Speaker 4: out to see it. Now you mentioned the Blue Jays facility.

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Speaker 4: Did not know that. I knew they did something new,

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Speaker 4: not that that crazy, and I knew Rogers Center, I mean,

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Speaker 4: the Old Sky was like one of the worst I thought,

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Speaker 4: right down to the AstroTurf horrible. So if they're trying

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Speaker 4: to make that more into a ballpark as opposed to

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Speaker 4: this sphere in the middle of the city, it's kind

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Speaker 4: of cool when the roof's open with the tower right there,

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Speaker 4: see an entwer was it ce in tower right there?

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Speaker 4: That is a great look. It's two different ballpark completely.

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Speaker 4: All these things, all these things he will consider. You're

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Speaker 4: right with your evaluation and your breakdown. And I think

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Speaker 4: is on the money. And I think from Rogers's perspective,

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Speaker 4: the know what the corporation ownership's called there. They know

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Speaker 4: their money's going to be made like way beyond what

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Speaker 4: they put out for him.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 3: By the way, they also have a huge chunk of

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Speaker 3: the maple Leafs and a lot of other sports entities

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Speaker 3: there in Canada, especially in the Toronto area where they're based.

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Speaker 3: They also own sportsnet, the company that puts the team

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Speaker 3: on the air. So again the investment in show, Hey,

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Speaker 3: if it's gonna cost you five hundred and fifty million dollars,

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Speaker 3: I mean, listen, I don't know their corporate books, but

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Speaker 3: you could see the return on investment even at that number,

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Speaker 3: it's pretty darn good because there this is the unicorn

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Speaker 3: because he pitches and hits. But he's also the unicorn

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Speaker 3: because he's a I think the most valuable business asset

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Speaker 3: in the game of baseball today.

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Speaker 2: And I think it it's.

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Speaker 3: Almost even more valuable for a team that owns the country,

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Speaker 3: in this case the Blue Jays in Canada. Let's talk

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Speaker 3: about Joe the baseball side of this. If you put

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Speaker 3: show Hey in that line put him in between Bishett

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Speaker 3: and Guerrero. It's a team that has been disappointing the

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Speaker 3: last couple of years. They've gotten the postseason, haven't made

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Speaker 3: any run in the postseason. You know, I've been a

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Speaker 3: ninety win team, nothing to really excuse yourself about. But

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Speaker 3: there's more on the table. Put him in that lineup.

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Speaker 2: Where are they in the American League East?

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Speaker 4: Yeah, of course, I mean, Okay, having said all that,

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Speaker 4: and I like that and I and I of course

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Speaker 4: I like Bishett a lot, like Bo. There's Daddy Will

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Speaker 4: and of course show It then Vladdie. I mean, these

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Speaker 4: are the sons of guys that I've actually worked with.

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Speaker 4: I like them a lot. I just I want to

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Speaker 4: see them be really good for a period of time.

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Speaker 4: Quite frankly, I mean I you know, Bo will swing

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Speaker 4: and sometimes when you just swing, swing, you're gonna get lucky.

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Speaker 4: Sometimes not so lucky. And then Vladdie last year the

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Speaker 4: power numbers weren't necessarily the same with any kind of consistency.

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Speaker 4: So it sounds good, but I'd have to see that

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Speaker 4: in action. I think that Show, hey, we'll raise their

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Speaker 4: games just by being there. There, they're going to elevate

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Speaker 4: them what they're doing. Mentally. I think maybe in the

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Speaker 4: beginning there might be like almost a feeling of a

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Speaker 4: little bit of a pressure, kind of a situation to

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Speaker 4: be better than they are, and that might relax into

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Speaker 4: something that is going to look like what's supposed to

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Speaker 4: look like over a period of time. But I think

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Speaker 4: it has to be more than just a three of them.

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Speaker 4: I absolutely do. I know they have some really good pitching,

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Speaker 4: and I like their pitching overall. And of course Show's

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Speaker 4: not going to pitch for at least one year, so

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Speaker 4: I don't think there's a lock on anything. Quite frankly,

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Speaker 4: I don't based on the people around him. I think

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Speaker 4: if you talked about him in the Dodger lineup, then

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Speaker 4: it becomes really dynamic, to the point that you can

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Speaker 4: hardly describe it him in that lineup in the American League.

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Speaker 4: Yeest absolutely outstanding, but I can't say that it has

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Speaker 4: that kind of science, sealed and delivered feeling that it

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Speaker 4: has if he had signed with the Dodgers.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, listen, I'm with you. I like the pitching of Toronto.

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Speaker 3: I do think they need some help offensively. Don't forget

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Speaker 3: Matt Chapman as a free agent. He actually didn't have

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Speaker 3: a great year last year, at a great first month

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Speaker 3: of the season. But they'll need more than show Hay

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Speaker 3: in that offense, right, But I mean show Hey, Joe,

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Speaker 3: I mean, his offensive game just keeps getting better and better.

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Speaker 3: I actually think he's the most impactful hitter in the

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Speaker 3: game today. It's no slight on Aaron Judge or Ronald

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Speaker 3: Acuna Junior. They're great too, but it's just something about

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Speaker 3: show Hey. He's got no holes that the power. He

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Speaker 3: had forty four home runs and essentially missed a month

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Speaker 3: last year. So yeah, the impact is going to be

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Speaker 3: if he winds up in that lineup huge, There's no

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Speaker 3: question about it. It doesn't make them probably the favorites

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Speaker 3: over Baltimore at this point, but it puts some darn

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Speaker 3: close and you know that's you know when you add

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Speaker 3: a player like that to a team, Joe, what it

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Speaker 3: does to everybody in the organization that they're stepping up

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Speaker 3: to making the biggest move you could possibly make in

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Speaker 3: baseball of all time.

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Speaker 2: It's gonna be the.

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Speaker 3: Biggest contract of all time. He's got to be a

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Speaker 3: halo effect there.

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Speaker 4: You're right. I just don't think it's a lot necessarily

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Speaker 4: that they're going to win everything. Because of that, I

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Speaker 4: definitely makes them interesting. They're going to be on TV

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Speaker 4: constantly in every country that watches base Paul I love

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Speaker 4: all that about it. I think for the game itself,

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Speaker 4: it could be fascinatingly like huge regarding the impact he

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Speaker 4: could have if you're really trying to again you're looking

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Speaker 4: for that next audience, not only the youth, but also

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Speaker 4: the audience itself, the expanding it to international audiences. He's

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Speaker 4: the one guy that has that opportunity more than anybody else.

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Speaker 4: Nobody on Baltimore does, Nobody on the Yankees does. Regardless

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Speaker 4: of you know Aaron Judges and his appeal, this guy does.

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Speaker 4: This guy is Elvis. He is the Beatles, and you're

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Speaker 4: talking about it before he's Michael Jordan of baseball. He's

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Speaker 4: that impactful on a game in an industry. So he's

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Speaker 4: all of that. And that's why I think when it

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Speaker 4: comes to this number, everybody's like concerned, well, it's going

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Speaker 4: to get over six O. Of course it's going to

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Speaker 4: get over six hundred million. You have to pay him

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Speaker 4: like two players. He is two players. And not only that,

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Speaker 4: what he does financially to your group, the exponential, the

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Speaker 4: complimentary comp effect of what he does economically is you're

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Speaker 4: gonna have to wait and find out exactly what it

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Speaker 4: is because it's going to be that severe. Yeah, so

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Speaker 4: that's why Thronto is a possibility.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 3: My last thought on show hey and you ran this

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Speaker 3: he ran into this would show hey.

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Speaker 2: I mean he marches to the beat of his own drummer.

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Speaker 2: We know that.

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Speaker 3: I go back to when he was coming out of

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Speaker 3: high school into the draft and MLB teams, especially the Dodgers,

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Speaker 3: were looking to sign him, and it was the manager

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Speaker 3: of his team in Japan who drafted him. I think

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Speaker 3: his name is Hedeki Moriyama, who told him basically, create

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Speaker 3: a path that nobody has walked down before, and by

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Speaker 3: that he meant, we'll give you the opportunity to be

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Speaker 3: both a pitcher and a hitter, and that really put

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Speaker 3: the light on and show his head.

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Speaker 2: He had not considered that.

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Speaker 3: He thought maybe if the Dodgers or the Rangers and

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Speaker 3: the Cubs at that time signed him, he would become

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Speaker 3: either a pitcher or a hitter, because the idea of

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Speaker 3: a two way player in Major League Baseball was not

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Speaker 3: out there at all. It wasn't on anybody's radar. And

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Speaker 3: was his manager who said, walk down a path nobody

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Speaker 3: has walked down before, and he loved that idea and

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Speaker 3: that has driven him to this day. So for us

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Speaker 3: to sit here and try to devine what his intentions

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Speaker 3: are or what he wants or trying to get the

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Speaker 3: last dollar from somebody, there's something appealing in whatever team

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Speaker 3: he signs with that we're all probably missing, right. Yeah,

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Speaker 3: I think I can see something with Toronto again where

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Speaker 3: it's a unique path for show. Hey, he's not becoming

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Speaker 3: a just another superstar on the Dodgers who won a

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Speaker 3: World Series just three years ago. The Blue Jays haven't

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Speaker 3: wanted a generation, you know. I think there's got to

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Speaker 3: be some appeal there. I think the technology, the ballpark,

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Speaker 3: the training facility, that can matter. And again I'm not

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Speaker 3: predicting he's signing with the Jays, but Joe, I think

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Speaker 3: they've got a real shot, and I'm not sure I

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Speaker 3: would have thought that a month ago.

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Speaker 4: Again, can't argue with any of that. Going back to

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Speaker 4: the original concept with that last statement was that people

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Speaker 4: didn't believe. I swear to I mean, I was in

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Speaker 4: on the meeting. I sat on meetings with the Cubs

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Speaker 4: at that particular time, and just other baseball people that

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Speaker 4: I really respect a lot a lot, and a lot

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Speaker 4: of them were pitching coaches, and pretty much they didn't

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Speaker 4: believe he can do that. They didn't believe he can

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Speaker 4: do that, and that he's going to have to choose, etc.

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Speaker 4: And you know, we've talked about this in the past,

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Speaker 4: that this is something I wanted to try to do

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Speaker 4: with the young man back in the day with the

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Speaker 4: Angels in the late eighties or early nineteen nineties, because

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Speaker 4: I always thought it was a fascinating subject that you,

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Speaker 4: if you have such a great athlete, to give him

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Speaker 4: this opportunity to do. And part of my rationale was

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Speaker 4: if he watches out at one or the other, that

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Speaker 4: he could be one or the other. Also and still

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Speaker 4: you stub yourself a great athlete or a great Major

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Speaker 4: League baseball player. Yes, he That's part of when I

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Speaker 4: was with him with the Angels from the beginning in

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Speaker 4: twenty twenty, I was trying to get that done. I

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Speaker 4: was trying to get him to be able to do

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Speaker 4: both with him, and there was a lot of reticence

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Speaker 4: with it because there was a lot of actual, how

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Speaker 4: shall I say, guidance coming from other than baseball people.

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Speaker 4: Guidance was coming from medicine and training staffs and sports

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Speaker 4: technology stuff that really didn't want him to do it.

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Speaker 4: They did not want him to do it at that time.

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Speaker 4: They thought it would be adverse and that he would

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Speaker 4: not be able to deal or handle with it. It was

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Speaker 4: a lot too much. I thought there was too much

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Speaker 4: scrutiny involved in regards to it. Just thought enough to

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Speaker 4: play baseball. So I'm glad we've arrived at this point

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Speaker 4: with him in for him, I've not met his manager,

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Speaker 4: but i've heard about him the fellow in Japan. It

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Speaker 4: sounds like we're on the same page with that, because

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Speaker 4: he is obviously capable of doing all this stuff. And

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Speaker 4: you're right, there's a there's a wrinkle out there somewhere

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Speaker 4: that we're not aware of. That show he's evaluating, and

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Speaker 4: it can come down to this last point. I still

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Speaker 4: think that for him to go to an East Coast,

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Speaker 4: Midwestern Eastern team, there's got to be a roof on

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Speaker 4: the building. I think I don't know that he's going

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Speaker 4: to really want to be I don't think he's going

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Speaker 4: want to play in cold weather. You know that's going

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Speaker 4: to impact him physically as a hitter, and then of

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Speaker 4: course on the mail when he comes back to it.

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Speaker 4: So I think you could go east of the Mississippi.

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Speaker 4: That's one of my more recent thoughts. The location is

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Speaker 4: probably gonna have to have a roof on it.

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Speaker 2: That's a great point. I agree with that one hundred percent.

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Speaker 2: Of course.

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Speaker 3: That's another item in the favor of the Toronto Blue Jays.

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Speaker 3: That you're playing in the climate control facility. There's no

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Speaker 3: doubt about that. The rain, cold weather, and the humidity

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Speaker 3: in August. This is a guy who's very particular about

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Speaker 3: the way he treats his body and works it hard

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Speaker 3: being a two way player, and I think teams realized

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Speaker 3: early on in this process. I'm talking about Matt's Yankees

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Speaker 3: Red Sox. He was not playing there, So that's a

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Speaker 3: great point. And by the way, you deserve a lot

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Speaker 3: of credit, Joe. I know you're not going to step

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Speaker 3: up and take it, but by taking the governor's off

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Speaker 3: Show Hey back then in twenty twenty and letting him

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Speaker 3: be the full version of himself really got him to

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Speaker 3: this point. I mean, he probably gets here anyway, but

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Speaker 3: who knows. We just know as baseball fans watching Show

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Speaker 3: Hey play the game of baseball without governors on him,

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Speaker 3: artificial governors in some cases, has brought out the best

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Speaker 3: in him. There's no question about that. And you, and

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Speaker 3: like Koreyama, his manager in Japan, there's are a lot

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Speaker 3: of credit for letting this guy flourish.

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Speaker 4: You know, it's thank you, but it's really obvious, you know,

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Speaker 4: and I know it comes down to the athlete himself.

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Speaker 4: He just needed opportunity. I've always felt, like I said,

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Speaker 4: I've always thought it was a fascinating concept. I never

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Speaker 4: thought it could be done at this level. Like when

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Speaker 4: I was talking about Deshaun Warren from back in the

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Speaker 4: day in the minor leagues, really fast man, real fast

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Speaker 4: through ninety five and he was a long ways away,

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Speaker 4: but I found that, Like I said, my biggest concern

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Speaker 4: there was if a guy washes out on one side,

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Speaker 4: he might be able to be valuable on another side

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Speaker 4: with the on the major league level. But show Ay

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Speaker 4: was different and actually quite frankly, and we've talked about

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Speaker 4: this too, when I saw a first pitch, he didn't

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Speaker 4: throw the ball well, and I actually didn't see Hi

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Speaker 4: hit the ball well. He was off timing and he's

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Speaker 4: coming off Tommy John and all this stuff, and I, man,

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Speaker 4: it was it was hard to under stand. But then

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Speaker 4: it just there was different, especially when I saw him

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Speaker 4: a spring training in twenty twenty one, totally different, totally

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Speaker 4: different cat. And then you could see it all coming together.

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Speaker 4: At that point you could you know what everybody had said.

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Speaker 4: But for me, the overarching point of all this was

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Speaker 4: when the guy signed. When he came here to sign,

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Speaker 4: he came to play two things. He came to do

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Speaker 4: two things, pitch and be a hitter, and to not

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Speaker 4: permit that, to least play it all the way through,

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Speaker 4: would have been absolutely disingenuous. And man, I don't even

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Speaker 4: know how you could live with yourself after you signed

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Speaker 4: the kid under those circumstances. And then I permit him

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Speaker 4: the opportunity to be that guy. That was really that

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Speaker 4: thought really stood out to me also, and all of

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Speaker 4: a sudden I become the steward of his of him

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Speaker 4: in his career in a sense, in that period of time.

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Speaker 4: So there was only one way to do that. Let

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Speaker 4: him fail, give him an opportunity to fail, but obviously

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Speaker 4: he did.

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Speaker 3: Not, and let him stay on his own program. And

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Speaker 3: that's going to happen no matter what team he signs with.

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Speaker 3: It's not people are not going to put him in

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Speaker 3: a box because there's no one like him. He'll be

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Speaker 3: on his own schedule. When he does come back pitching

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Speaker 3: in twenty twenty five, he will pitch every six or

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Speaker 3: seventh day. You'll have to work around that. You'll have

400
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Speaker 3: to work around him having his own program in spring

401
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Speaker 3: training to get himself ready. But you never worry about

402
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Speaker 3: this guy. I mean, he's so particular, so detail oriented

403
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Speaker 3: about getting himself physically ready to play this game of baseball,

404
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Speaker 3: Eat sleeves, freeze the game. So when you say on

405
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Speaker 3: his own program, that's typically been a euphemism't for a

406
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Speaker 3: guy who's like not a team player. In this case,

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Speaker 3: it's just the detail the work that goes into being

408
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Speaker 3: sho he Otani is something only he knows how to

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Speaker 3: get done.

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Speaker 4: You know, I had to answer those questions too. I

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Speaker 4: had to answered those questions. Yeh, yeh, I'm sharking about it.

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Speaker 4: And I was like, really, you're worried about him, you know,

413
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Speaker 4: being the kicker or the punter going off to the

414
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Speaker 4: side and working on his stuff while everybody else is

415
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Speaker 4: doing something else. You're really worried about that. If you

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Speaker 4: talk to this guy, if you watch this guy, you're

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Speaker 4: absolutely right. I mean, he needs that, he needs that,

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Speaker 4: he needs to be able to do what he needs

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Speaker 4: to do in that day because you know what, again,

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Speaker 4: slightly since Babe Ruth, nobody else has known what he's not.

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Speaker 4: So to try to coach that or come up with

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Speaker 4: the program that you think is right for this, Wow,

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Speaker 4: I am not pretentious enough to think that I know that.

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Speaker 4: Absolutely not. Uh. This is where the athlete needs to

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Speaker 4: be listened to, and obviously it paid off for it.

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Speaker 3: Absolutely. Hey, we're gonna take a quick break, Joe. When

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Speaker 3: we come back, I want to get your thoughts on

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Speaker 3: the newest Hall of Famer Jim Leland. The contemporary era

429
00:20:47,438 --> 00:20:50,998
Speaker 3: baseball Committee voted in Jim Leland's into the Hall of

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Speaker 3: Fame on Sunday night, and Joe, I know, we can

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Speaker 3: look at his numbers that wins the games, the World Series,

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Speaker 3: he won with Florida three penance, but he's a rare

433
00:21:01,518 --> 00:21:04,598
Speaker 3: guy for me. When I watched him the course of managing,

434
00:21:04,878 --> 00:21:06,838
Speaker 3: I thought he was a Hall of famer. You know,

435
00:21:06,878 --> 00:21:08,998
Speaker 3: sometimes that happens with a player. You see a guy

436
00:21:09,038 --> 00:21:11,238
Speaker 3: early in his career. I'm like at Roald da kuniit

437
00:21:11,358 --> 00:21:13,118
Speaker 3: right now and saying, this guy looks like a Hall

438
00:21:13,158 --> 00:21:15,718
Speaker 3: of Famer. That's kind of a no brainer. But I

439
00:21:15,758 --> 00:21:18,798
Speaker 3: felt that way with guys like why Herz, Tony LaRussa,

440
00:21:18,798 --> 00:21:21,158
Speaker 3: of course, and I thought the same way with Jim Leland.

441
00:21:21,358 --> 00:21:25,078
Speaker 3: And maybe his numbers don't exactly blow you away, just

442
00:21:25,118 --> 00:21:28,918
Speaker 3: that one World championship, but I think this is deserving

443
00:21:28,998 --> 00:21:31,478
Speaker 3: for a guy like you, who did not play in

444
00:21:31,478 --> 00:21:33,638
Speaker 3: the major leagues, you know, worked his butt off in

445
00:21:33,678 --> 00:21:37,318
Speaker 3: the minor leagues, get an opportunity. And I thought was

446
00:21:37,358 --> 00:21:39,478
Speaker 3: always one of the best that saw at as he

447
00:21:39,478 --> 00:21:42,878
Speaker 3: would tell me tell you himself, putting players in the

448
00:21:42,918 --> 00:21:45,758
Speaker 3: best position to win. He won with all kinds of

449
00:21:45,758 --> 00:21:48,678
Speaker 3: different teams. He won without closers, he won without great

450
00:21:48,678 --> 00:21:53,558
Speaker 3: starting pitching. I'm happy for Jim Leland. Loopanella, by the way,

451
00:21:53,638 --> 00:21:56,238
Speaker 3: missed by just one vote for a second time. That's

452
00:21:56,278 --> 00:21:59,118
Speaker 3: just agonizing. But right now we're going to talk about

453
00:21:59,158 --> 00:22:01,518
Speaker 3: Jim Leland. What stands out for you, Joe, when you

454
00:22:01,518 --> 00:22:05,038
Speaker 3: think about going up against Jim Leland and appreciating his career.

455
00:22:05,558 --> 00:22:08,918
Speaker 4: Wow, I did text him and I haven't heard back,

456
00:22:08,918 --> 00:22:10,798
Speaker 4: but I texted his son because then it would be busy.

457
00:22:10,838 --> 00:22:14,478
Speaker 4: But what stands out to me, and this is the

458
00:22:14,558 --> 00:22:18,438
Speaker 4: road that comes immediately, is charisma. I you know, beyond

459
00:22:18,518 --> 00:22:22,158
Speaker 4: everything else that he is and represents, which is the

460
00:22:22,478 --> 00:22:25,998
Speaker 4: absolutely the right way to have done that. How he

461
00:22:26,118 --> 00:22:28,838
Speaker 4: was where he began, how he worked his way up,

462
00:22:28,958 --> 00:22:32,038
Speaker 4: the different jobs that he had had, the different outposts

463
00:22:32,038 --> 00:22:35,838
Speaker 4: he had worked at, the successes and quite a few

464
00:22:35,918 --> 00:22:38,918
Speaker 4: failures with the Pirates. Regards to losing season like heavily

465
00:22:39,438 --> 00:22:42,678
Speaker 4: losing seasons and not quitting, not giving up and still

466
00:22:43,078 --> 00:22:45,798
Speaker 4: believing in what he was doing. That takes a lot,

467
00:22:45,958 --> 00:22:49,798
Speaker 4: because your your ego really gets not just takes a hip.

468
00:22:49,798 --> 00:22:51,758
Speaker 4: And to get smashed when you lose a one hundred

469
00:22:51,758 --> 00:22:53,878
Speaker 4: games in the season. I've done it once with the

470
00:22:53,958 --> 00:22:58,078
Speaker 4: Rays Devil Rays, and almost the second time. And believe me, man,

471
00:22:58,118 --> 00:22:59,718
Speaker 4: when you go to the ballpark every now, you got

472
00:22:59,718 --> 00:23:04,318
Speaker 4: to fight internally to maintainer sustain the fact fact that

473
00:23:04,798 --> 00:23:07,398
Speaker 4: what I'm doing is right. I know what, I believe

474
00:23:07,438 --> 00:23:10,278
Speaker 4: it is correct and good. It's going to eventually work out.

475
00:23:10,318 --> 00:23:13,278
Speaker 4: It's eventually going to play out, and of course it

476
00:23:13,318 --> 00:23:17,718
Speaker 4: did for him, right down to that famous confrontation he

477
00:23:17,838 --> 00:23:19,438
Speaker 4: had with Barry Bonds.

478
00:23:19,878 --> 00:23:20,998
Speaker 2: I love that.

479
00:23:20,998 --> 00:23:23,518
Speaker 4: That's it. I mean, that's a Hall of fame moment

480
00:23:23,518 --> 00:23:26,038
Speaker 4: for me. We're in front of all of his other guys,

481
00:23:26,678 --> 00:23:29,518
Speaker 4: the other players there, he set it up right there.

482
00:23:29,598 --> 00:23:32,838
Speaker 4: This is don't we don't act that way around here.

483
00:23:33,038 --> 00:23:34,758
Speaker 4: That's pretty much what he was saying, and I'm not

484
00:23:34,798 --> 00:23:37,558
Speaker 4: going to put up with it. And at that point

485
00:23:37,638 --> 00:23:42,078
Speaker 4: he wins over anybody else in that organization. So if

486
00:23:42,078 --> 00:23:45,598
Speaker 4: there's one hundred players, one hundred people in ninety nine

487
00:23:45,638 --> 00:23:47,798
Speaker 4: and then Bonds was one hundred, the other ninety nine

488
00:23:47,838 --> 00:23:50,958
Speaker 4: are absolutely on board with everything he was going to

489
00:23:50,998 --> 00:23:51,358
Speaker 4: say and do.

490
00:23:51,438 --> 00:23:53,478
Speaker 3: From that moment on, I know I'm with you one

491
00:23:53,558 --> 00:23:55,438
Speaker 3: hundred percent. I'm glad you brought that up. If I

492
00:23:55,518 --> 00:23:59,958
Speaker 3: remember correctly, to the genesis of that, that blowout had

493
00:23:59,958 --> 00:24:03,478
Speaker 3: something to do with Bonds disrespecting the coaching staff. Maybe

494
00:24:03,478 --> 00:24:05,758
Speaker 3: it was some early work or something. And you know,

495
00:24:06,118 --> 00:24:08,438
Speaker 3: you know Jim, he's going to back his coaches all

496
00:24:08,478 --> 00:24:08,838
Speaker 3: the way.

497
00:24:09,158 --> 00:24:10,718
Speaker 4: Yeah.

498
00:24:10,838 --> 00:24:13,238
Speaker 3: Yeah, he's one of the first guys. Joe I remember.

499
00:24:14,078 --> 00:24:16,878
Speaker 3: I remember him walking to the outfield during batting practice

500
00:24:17,038 --> 00:24:19,398
Speaker 3: and he would do that just to check in with players.

501
00:24:19,638 --> 00:24:21,718
Speaker 3: You know, Jim was like Bobby Cox. He put on

502
00:24:21,758 --> 00:24:25,598
Speaker 3: his spikes and during VP he'd walk the outfield and

503
00:24:25,678 --> 00:24:26,478
Speaker 3: check in, you know.

504
00:24:26,518 --> 00:24:28,278
Speaker 2: What's going on today, how do you feel?

505
00:24:28,358 --> 00:24:30,598
Speaker 3: And it was just a way like, and you've done

506
00:24:30,598 --> 00:24:33,198
Speaker 3: this so well of making sure that you begin with

507
00:24:33,358 --> 00:24:36,958
Speaker 3: trust and communication, and that happens not by just posting

508
00:24:36,998 --> 00:24:39,158
Speaker 3: the lineup, but by talking to guys about.

509
00:24:38,878 --> 00:24:40,198
Speaker 2: Things, not even about baseball.

510
00:24:40,238 --> 00:24:42,558
Speaker 3: And I thought Jim Lelan was really good about engendering

511
00:24:42,558 --> 00:24:43,518
Speaker 3: that trust for players.

512
00:24:43,638 --> 00:24:46,798
Speaker 4: Go tell you, like all you're saying right there, you

513
00:24:46,878 --> 00:24:48,478
Speaker 4: go sit in the other dugout when he's in the

514
00:24:48,478 --> 00:24:51,718
Speaker 4: other dugout, right, you be the manager and this dugout

515
00:24:51,758 --> 00:24:53,518
Speaker 4: and he's over in that dugout. The first time that

516
00:24:53,558 --> 00:24:56,438
Speaker 4: happened to me, gosh, I think it was in Detroit.

517
00:24:56,718 --> 00:24:58,398
Speaker 4: God bless it. I mean, swear to God. I mean

518
00:24:58,398 --> 00:25:02,358
Speaker 4: it was a source of consternation for me that you know,

519
00:25:03,078 --> 00:25:05,998
Speaker 4: chat Jimmy's and that other dugout damn. I mean, I know,

520
00:25:06,118 --> 00:25:09,878
Speaker 4: he's on top of things and you're almost outmanage yourself,

521
00:25:09,958 --> 00:25:11,918
Speaker 4: just trying to keep up what you think he's thinking,

522
00:25:12,238 --> 00:25:15,398
Speaker 4: you know, which is crazy, but it works his advantage.

523
00:25:15,878 --> 00:25:19,518
Speaker 4: You'd be considering talk about what he knew and how

524
00:25:19,558 --> 00:25:22,158
Speaker 4: he ran a game, or how he developed a lineup,

525
00:25:22,278 --> 00:25:25,318
Speaker 4: or what he said and his strategical whatever. You could

526
00:25:25,318 --> 00:25:29,718
Speaker 4: talk about that all you want. But again, presence, the

527
00:25:29,798 --> 00:25:34,958
Speaker 4: man had presence. He has presence that is overlooked, that

528
00:25:35,118 --> 00:25:37,958
Speaker 4: is not even considered anymore. I don't even know that

529
00:25:37,998 --> 00:25:42,838
Speaker 4: it's important anymore. But he did. I think he primarily

530
00:25:42,998 --> 00:25:45,758
Speaker 4: besides his record is one thing. The years that he

531
00:25:45,758 --> 00:25:48,598
Speaker 4: did it is another thing. But good for the game

532
00:25:48,678 --> 00:25:53,918
Speaker 4: to recognize his presence and his kind of character and

533
00:25:53,918 --> 00:25:56,678
Speaker 4: his charisma in regards to the role that he was in.

534
00:25:57,358 --> 00:26:01,838
Speaker 4: That is Casey Stangel. You mentioned Whitey Whitey to me

535
00:26:02,078 --> 00:26:06,438
Speaker 4: is like so oh wonderful and dear to my heart.

536
00:26:07,398 --> 00:26:10,198
Speaker 4: I've often talked about Gene Mock, and you talked about

537
00:26:10,278 --> 00:26:14,038
Speaker 4: Tony and I lose next. Lo's definitely going to be

538
00:26:14,038 --> 00:26:17,398
Speaker 4: next after this. I absolutely believe that. But there's a

539
00:26:17,438 --> 00:26:20,118
Speaker 4: part of that that doesn't that create a lot of

540
00:26:20,158 --> 00:26:23,918
Speaker 4: interest in the game itself. The fact that these guys

541
00:26:23,918 --> 00:26:25,398
Speaker 4: could be identified with even to the point where you

542
00:26:25,398 --> 00:26:28,558
Speaker 4: don't like them at all, And that really matters too.

543
00:26:29,438 --> 00:26:31,198
Speaker 4: You have to be really good to not be liked,

544
00:26:31,718 --> 00:26:35,038
Speaker 4: and he has all these guys have all those different

545
00:26:35,118 --> 00:26:37,758
Speaker 4: qualities that I don't think are discussed enough. We don't

546
00:26:37,758 --> 00:26:41,598
Speaker 4: really get into intangibles. I meaning intangibles almost to become

547
00:26:41,598 --> 00:26:46,598
Speaker 4: an archaic word because you can't evaluate intangibles. Jimmy's just

548
00:26:46,718 --> 00:26:49,998
Speaker 4: dripping with those things. And furthermore, him and Zim were tight,

549
00:26:50,078 --> 00:26:52,398
Speaker 4: and that's how I got to know Jimmy was because

550
00:26:52,398 --> 00:26:58,598
Speaker 4: of Don Zimmer. There were such great buddies that Zim

551
00:26:58,638 --> 00:27:02,078
Speaker 4: made sure that I got to know jim and it

552
00:27:02,158 --> 00:27:06,558
Speaker 4: was beautiful. Jimmy would up to me, you call me Skip, hey, Skip.

553
00:27:07,078 --> 00:27:10,758
Speaker 4: He said that to me behind the batting cage, and

554
00:27:10,798 --> 00:27:13,598
Speaker 4: I would look forward to those conversations. And he's a

555
00:27:13,598 --> 00:27:16,758
Speaker 4: great choke teller. On top of that, he's he's he's

556
00:27:16,798 --> 00:27:20,118
Speaker 4: what a manager should look like and be like. Okay,

557
00:27:20,158 --> 00:27:23,918
Speaker 4: so I mean, I know Whitey, that's what a manager

558
00:27:23,918 --> 00:27:26,758
Speaker 4: should be like and look like. I know Jimmy, I

559
00:27:26,798 --> 00:27:29,918
Speaker 4: know lou. These are the guys that's what you're looking

560
00:27:29,958 --> 00:27:33,318
Speaker 4: for in the manager, all of those qualities. And yeah,

561
00:27:33,318 --> 00:27:35,478
Speaker 4: they'd all like to have win more World Series, but

562
00:27:36,238 --> 00:27:37,718
Speaker 4: these are the kind of people you're looking for to

563
00:27:37,798 --> 00:27:38,438
Speaker 4: run your team.

564
00:27:39,158 --> 00:27:41,958
Speaker 3: I love that word that you use, Joe presence, because

565
00:27:41,998 --> 00:27:43,998
Speaker 3: Whitey did come to my mind. You know, I'm covering

566
00:27:44,038 --> 00:27:46,718
Speaker 3: the Mets in the eighties, and I'm telling you those

567
00:27:46,758 --> 00:27:51,198
Speaker 3: Mets players were aware of the dugout in Saint Louis,

568
00:27:51,278 --> 00:27:53,798
Speaker 3: the manager and the dugout that doesn't happen often. It's

569
00:27:53,918 --> 00:27:57,318
Speaker 3: rare where it's almost like an impact player. You're aware

570
00:27:57,318 --> 00:28:00,398
Speaker 3: of Whitey Herzog running the game, and I think Jim

571
00:28:00,438 --> 00:28:02,238
Speaker 3: Leland had the same kind of effect. I'll tell you

572
00:28:02,318 --> 00:28:06,718
Speaker 3: my favorite Jim Leland is from twenty ten to Night

573
00:28:06,878 --> 00:28:10,518
Speaker 3: when Armando Galleraga had that perfect game taken away by

574
00:28:10,518 --> 00:28:14,238
Speaker 3: the call, but Jim Joyce at first base and it

575
00:28:14,358 --> 00:28:17,558
Speaker 3: was Galrago gets the next batter completes the one hitter,

576
00:28:17,918 --> 00:28:20,278
Speaker 3: and as Joyce is walking off the field, Jim Leland,

577
00:28:20,278 --> 00:28:23,118
Speaker 3: who's as crusty and competitive as anybody you're gonna find,

578
00:28:23,598 --> 00:28:25,838
Speaker 3: is yelling at him, telling him, you blew it.

579
00:28:25,998 --> 00:28:27,638
Speaker 2: Go in and look at it. You blew it.

580
00:28:28,118 --> 00:28:31,278
Speaker 3: The kid had a perfect game, and Jim Joyce, you

581
00:28:31,318 --> 00:28:32,958
Speaker 3: know this is what happens when you're an umpire.

582
00:28:32,998 --> 00:28:34,638
Speaker 2: You're kind of used to that. But he goes in there.

583
00:28:34,678 --> 00:28:37,678
Speaker 3: He had the clubhouse attendant in the umpire's room queue

584
00:28:37,758 --> 00:28:40,638
Speaker 3: up that play. He only watched it once. That's all

585
00:28:40,638 --> 00:28:42,598
Speaker 3: he needed to see to see that he blew the call.

586
00:28:42,678 --> 00:28:47,078
Speaker 3: He felt terrible. Jim Joyce invited the reporters into the

587
00:28:47,198 --> 00:28:50,598
Speaker 3: umpire's dressing room and he basically stood up there near

588
00:28:50,638 --> 00:28:53,318
Speaker 3: tears and admitted he blew the biggest call of his

589
00:28:53,358 --> 00:28:56,958
Speaker 3: life and he felt terrible about it. Well Ward got

590
00:28:56,998 --> 00:28:59,518
Speaker 3: back to Jim Leland in the manager's office on the

591
00:28:59,518 --> 00:29:02,318
Speaker 3: Tiger's side the CA America Park. As soon as he

592
00:29:02,318 --> 00:29:04,758
Speaker 3: heard that, he got up from his seat. He walked

593
00:29:04,758 --> 00:29:07,038
Speaker 3: out of the hallway, didn't even knock on the door

594
00:29:07,078 --> 00:29:10,078
Speaker 3: of the umpire's room, flung the door open, and he

595
00:29:10,118 --> 00:29:13,118
Speaker 3: said to Jim Joyce, you and me, kid, are going

596
00:29:13,198 --> 00:29:15,958
Speaker 3: to have a beer, and I'm sorry that it happened,

597
00:29:16,158 --> 00:29:19,358
Speaker 3: but we are going to move on from this that

598
00:29:19,718 --> 00:29:22,518
Speaker 3: swing of events, if you will, arguing with the umpire

599
00:29:22,558 --> 00:29:24,918
Speaker 3: because he wanted to call to go his way, and

600
00:29:24,958 --> 00:29:27,678
Speaker 3: then having the heart to realize what Jim Joyce was

601
00:29:27,718 --> 00:29:30,518
Speaker 3: a great guy was going through and just dealing with

602
00:29:30,598 --> 00:29:34,158
Speaker 3: knowing that he blew the call and immediately cracking open

603
00:29:34,198 --> 00:29:35,718
Speaker 3: a beer to sit down with this guy and say

604
00:29:35,798 --> 00:29:39,118
Speaker 3: let's move on. That's Jim Lewland to me. I mean,

605
00:29:39,158 --> 00:29:42,278
Speaker 3: that's that's managing people, not just ball games.

606
00:29:42,878 --> 00:29:45,118
Speaker 4: We listen for a second. Of all, I'm a huge

607
00:29:45,158 --> 00:29:48,878
Speaker 4: Jimmy Joyce fan. I've actually texted with him recently. He's

608
00:29:48,918 --> 00:29:51,998
Speaker 4: one of my all time favorite umpires. And that entire

609
00:29:52,078 --> 00:29:58,678
Speaker 4: story encapsulates and typify signifies why you love Jim Joyce.

610
00:29:59,278 --> 00:30:02,478
Speaker 4: I thought about that particular play that was prior to

611
00:30:02,558 --> 00:30:07,638
Speaker 4: obviously instant Replay. I really thought, symbolically when replay came

612
00:30:07,678 --> 00:30:11,198
Speaker 4: into play, that that call should have been the first

613
00:30:11,198 --> 00:30:14,438
Speaker 4: call reviewed by Instant Replay and reversed. I don't see

614
00:30:14,478 --> 00:30:16,238
Speaker 4: why it could not have been. I thought it was

615
00:30:16,238 --> 00:30:18,758
Speaker 4: the perfect one. I said it publicly, but of course

616
00:30:19,278 --> 00:30:20,918
Speaker 4: I was going to listen about something like that at

617
00:30:20,918 --> 00:30:22,678
Speaker 4: that time. But it would have been a perfect moment,

618
00:30:23,198 --> 00:30:26,478
Speaker 4: the perfect way to show you this is exactly what

619
00:30:26,558 --> 00:30:30,358
Speaker 4: we can fix under these circumstances. I don't think anybody

620
00:30:30,398 --> 00:30:32,598
Speaker 4: would have argued with that. I don't. I don't think

621
00:30:32,758 --> 00:30:34,638
Speaker 4: I'm not going to go back to Decatur's play. I'm not,

622
00:30:34,758 --> 00:30:37,718
Speaker 4: of course not, but that one was so fresh. I

623
00:30:37,758 --> 00:30:39,678
Speaker 4: thought that would have been great, and Galaraga would have

624
00:30:39,678 --> 00:30:42,398
Speaker 4: gotten this perfect game. And I don't think you would

625
00:30:42,398 --> 00:30:45,238
Speaker 4: have had one dissenter, not one if you had some.

626
00:30:45,398 --> 00:30:48,638
Speaker 4: And I'm not necessarily the symbolic dude, I'm not in

627
00:30:48,678 --> 00:30:51,438
Speaker 4: the symbolism all the time by any means, But I've

628
00:30:51,478 --> 00:30:54,838
Speaker 4: often thought that that would have been perfect. It definitely

629
00:30:54,838 --> 00:30:59,038
Speaker 4: would have permitted Jimmy to slave better. And I don't

630
00:31:00,198 --> 00:31:05,198
Speaker 4: dispute one second why or how Jimmy dealt with that.

631
00:31:05,398 --> 00:31:06,998
Speaker 4: I'd like to believe I'd have done the same thing

632
00:31:06,998 --> 00:31:09,798
Speaker 4: at final point, Who did Ken Griffy Junior pick up

633
00:31:10,438 --> 00:31:14,798
Speaker 4: for his commercial to be the Empire? But Jimmy Joyce

634
00:31:14,838 --> 00:31:18,838
Speaker 4: with Kenny and his wife's and Jimmy does a great

635
00:31:18,918 --> 00:31:21,798
Speaker 4: job with that, So all that stuff to me, that's

636
00:31:21,798 --> 00:31:25,558
Speaker 4: who Jim Joyce is. Anybody listening today, I promise you

637
00:31:25,558 --> 00:31:27,798
Speaker 4: you want to have that beer with Jim Joyce and

638
00:31:27,838 --> 00:31:30,238
Speaker 4: you also want to sit there and have that beer

639
00:31:30,278 --> 00:31:32,918
Speaker 4: with Jim Leland. It's a perfect marriage right there.

640
00:31:33,078 --> 00:31:35,158
Speaker 3: Yeah, listen, it's a great idea, Joe, to go back

641
00:31:35,158 --> 00:31:38,198
Speaker 3: and give him the perfect game. But I actually think

642
00:31:38,358 --> 00:31:42,678
Speaker 3: he's our generation's Harvey Haddocks. A galaraga is more famous

643
00:31:42,678 --> 00:31:45,958
Speaker 3: for not having the perfect game than for having it.

644
00:31:46,198 --> 00:31:49,278
Speaker 3: But I still like the symbolism that you're suggesting there.

645
00:31:50,158 --> 00:31:54,358
Speaker 3: By the way, Jim Joyce from Toledo, Ohio and Jimmy Leland,

646
00:31:54,438 --> 00:31:57,518
Speaker 3: of course from Perrysville, not far down the road, both

647
00:31:57,838 --> 00:32:01,438
Speaker 3: from real blue class working families, and both earn their

648
00:32:01,478 --> 00:32:04,278
Speaker 3: way on their stripes in baseball the hard way, coming

649
00:32:04,358 --> 00:32:07,278
Speaker 3: up through the minor leagues. By the way, Jim Leland,

650
00:32:07,318 --> 00:32:10,958
Speaker 3: now it kind of completes this, Joe. It's I know,

651
00:32:11,078 --> 00:32:14,918
Speaker 3: Bruce Boccie, Terry Francona, Dusty Baker, not yet eligible for

652
00:32:14,958 --> 00:32:15,478
Speaker 3: the Hall of Fame.

653
00:32:15,518 --> 00:32:16,878
Speaker 2: I think someday we'll see those in.

654
00:32:17,038 --> 00:32:20,838
Speaker 3: You mentioned Louke Panela as well, and hopefully there's a

655
00:32:20,918 --> 00:32:22,758
Speaker 3: day where he gets that last vote and get him

656
00:32:22,758 --> 00:32:27,638
Speaker 3: in as well. But now every manager but two who's

657
00:32:27,678 --> 00:32:32,678
Speaker 3: had thirteen hundred wins and two World Series appearances is

658
00:32:32,758 --> 00:32:33,558
Speaker 3: in the Hall of Fame.

659
00:32:34,118 --> 00:32:36,838
Speaker 2: One is Ralph Halck, who actually.

660
00:32:36,638 --> 00:32:38,798
Speaker 3: Had three and won the World Series twice, and the

661
00:32:38,798 --> 00:32:39,958
Speaker 3: other is you, Joe Madden.

662
00:32:40,118 --> 00:32:41,638
Speaker 4: Really so maybe.

663
00:32:41,398 --> 00:32:44,518
Speaker 3: Someday there's there's a place for you. Thirteen hundred wins,

664
00:32:45,118 --> 00:32:49,398
Speaker 3: two World Series appearances. Everybody's in except Ralph Halck and

665
00:32:49,478 --> 00:32:50,038
Speaker 3: Joe Madden.

666
00:32:50,198 --> 00:32:52,278
Speaker 4: Well, the major, right, the Major.

667
00:32:52,038 --> 00:32:53,078
Speaker 2: The Major, that's right.

668
00:32:53,198 --> 00:32:56,238
Speaker 4: I loved Ralph Halck, I mean I loved everything about that.

669
00:32:56,238 --> 00:32:58,798
Speaker 4: That dude back in the day. Number thirty five I

670
00:32:58,838 --> 00:32:59,718
Speaker 4: believe is accurate.

671
00:33:00,198 --> 00:33:01,078
Speaker 2: I think you're right.

672
00:33:01,158 --> 00:33:04,038
Speaker 3: He was a backup catcher basically never played Becau as

673
00:33:04,118 --> 00:33:05,398
Speaker 3: Yogi played all the time.

674
00:33:05,758 --> 00:33:07,958
Speaker 4: Were both stunk. We both stunck. It's perfect.

675
00:33:09,478 --> 00:33:11,478
Speaker 2: Hey, we're gonna take a quick break, Joe, and we

676
00:33:11,598 --> 00:33:11,958
Speaker 2: come back.

677
00:33:12,038 --> 00:33:13,958
Speaker 3: I want to ask you about a player signing an

678
00:33:13,998 --> 00:33:16,758
Speaker 3: eighty two million dollar contract before he even played a

679
00:33:16,878 --> 00:33:19,158
Speaker 3: day the big leagues and a teenager at that.

680
00:33:19,638 --> 00:33:34,998
Speaker 2: We'll talk about that next, all right, Joe. I mentioned an.

681
00:33:34,838 --> 00:33:38,598
Speaker 3: Eighty two million dollars guaranteed contract for a player yet

682
00:33:38,638 --> 00:33:40,478
Speaker 3: to appear in the big leagues. Of course, we're talking

683
00:33:40,518 --> 00:33:43,718
Speaker 3: about Jackson Churio, the outfielder with the Milwaukee Brewers.

684
00:33:44,998 --> 00:33:46,518
Speaker 2: There's actually two year.

685
00:33:46,438 --> 00:33:49,558
Speaker 3: Option that club option added to that, so basically the

686
00:33:49,598 --> 00:33:52,798
Speaker 3: next decade he is under control of the Milwaukee Brewers.

687
00:33:53,238 --> 00:33:55,958
Speaker 3: Give me your quick thoughts on this, especially as a

688
00:33:55,998 --> 00:33:59,478
Speaker 3: manager knowing you've got a guy who's, let's face it,

689
00:33:59,518 --> 00:34:00,358
Speaker 3: set for life.

690
00:34:00,878 --> 00:34:04,558
Speaker 4: I don't know. I don't know. It's it's kind of

691
00:34:04,598 --> 00:34:08,238
Speaker 4: intuitive to just things that I believe in, and again,

692
00:34:09,118 --> 00:34:13,158
Speaker 4: I'm certain that'll be get accused of being out of

693
00:34:13,198 --> 00:34:17,038
Speaker 4: touch with what's going on today. I don't know when

694
00:34:17,038 --> 00:34:21,078
Speaker 4: you acquire that much wealth before you really accomplish anything,

695
00:34:21,158 --> 00:34:24,958
Speaker 4: and especially in such an industry as baseball. I don't

696
00:34:24,958 --> 00:34:26,678
Speaker 4: know the kid. I'm sure they know well enough to

697
00:34:26,718 --> 00:34:28,158
Speaker 4: believe that the motivation is going to be there. I

698
00:34:28,198 --> 00:34:32,238
Speaker 4: don't doubt that. I don't doubt that. But to just

699
00:34:32,358 --> 00:34:35,398
Speaker 4: hand over that kind of dough without any production at all,

700
00:34:35,558 --> 00:34:38,798
Speaker 4: just the potential production, I mean, Wander Frankel was kind

701
00:34:38,798 --> 00:34:40,278
Speaker 4: of like that with the race too. I don't know

702
00:34:40,358 --> 00:34:43,718
Speaker 4: that it was that much money, but there's a similar situation,

703
00:34:43,918 --> 00:34:46,798
Speaker 4: right there so many things could happen between now and

704
00:34:46,878 --> 00:34:52,278
Speaker 4: the culmination of that contract. I think, I get it.

705
00:34:52,678 --> 00:34:55,838
Speaker 4: I don't know why. I don't understand why it was

706
00:34:56,118 --> 00:34:59,438
Speaker 4: that necessary. I'd like to know the exact reasons why

707
00:34:59,478 --> 00:35:01,958
Speaker 4: you have to go ahead and lay that all out

708
00:35:01,958 --> 00:35:04,038
Speaker 4: there in advance when you have this gunder control for

709
00:35:04,078 --> 00:35:09,358
Speaker 4: so many years regardless, are you attempting to persuade him

710
00:35:09,358 --> 00:35:10,958
Speaker 4: that at the end of that contract, we believe you're

711
00:35:10,958 --> 00:35:13,198
Speaker 4: gonna be that good that you got to re sign

712
00:35:13,238 --> 00:35:16,278
Speaker 4: with this at that point. I just don't I'd like

713
00:35:16,318 --> 00:35:17,758
Speaker 4: to know the exact reason why you have to do

714
00:35:17,798 --> 00:35:20,318
Speaker 4: something like I don't know the exact reason, But more

715
00:35:20,318 --> 00:35:23,838
Speaker 4: than anything, it's a dangerous precedent, I think. And it's

716
00:35:23,878 --> 00:35:26,118
Speaker 4: you know, it's going on with Nil what is it?

717
00:35:26,118 --> 00:35:29,958
Speaker 4: Things with the yeah, yeah, that kind of stuff. I

718
00:35:30,158 --> 00:35:32,438
Speaker 4: don't quite And again, I guess it's because I'm from

719
00:35:32,438 --> 00:35:37,118
Speaker 4: a previous generation and my method of feelings like I've

720
00:35:37,158 --> 00:35:39,438
Speaker 4: earned something that it belongs to me, that I've gone

721
00:35:39,438 --> 00:35:42,798
Speaker 4: through all the processes, that it's my time to have

722
00:35:42,958 --> 00:35:46,478
Speaker 4: something like that. But we're we're just we're creating a

723
00:35:46,518 --> 00:35:50,958
Speaker 4: different method of aspiring to attempt to be somebody or

724
00:35:51,478 --> 00:35:55,118
Speaker 4: when you start giving the reward before the Hayes been

725
00:35:55,158 --> 00:35:57,238
Speaker 4: put in the barn I don't quite get that. So

726
00:35:57,998 --> 00:36:01,998
Speaker 4: and I don't know the kid. You know, Maddie Arnold's wonderful.

727
00:36:02,038 --> 00:36:04,238
Speaker 4: I love the GM there. I love them of a

728
00:36:04,238 --> 00:36:06,838
Speaker 4: lot actually, and they said the same thing happened with

729
00:36:06,878 --> 00:36:09,398
Speaker 4: wonder So maybe you can explain to me why why

730
00:36:09,438 --> 00:36:13,718
Speaker 4: do organizations feel it's necessary to go in that direction

731
00:36:14,398 --> 00:36:17,598
Speaker 4: with so many years of control ahead, And maybe you

732
00:36:17,638 --> 00:36:18,558
Speaker 4: could explain that to me.

733
00:36:18,958 --> 00:36:20,678
Speaker 3: Yeah, I'm going to take the other side on this,

734
00:36:20,798 --> 00:36:22,638
Speaker 3: and I know people are going to look at people

735
00:36:22,638 --> 00:36:27,678
Speaker 3: like John Singleton and Scott Kingery, Evan White, wh we

736
00:36:27,758 --> 00:36:29,038
Speaker 3: just traded to Atlanta.

737
00:36:29,078 --> 00:36:30,638
Speaker 2: These are guys who got big.

738
00:36:30,398 --> 00:36:32,438
Speaker 3: Deals before they really played a day in the big

739
00:36:32,518 --> 00:36:35,278
Speaker 3: leagues or hardly any in the big leagues. But I'm

740
00:36:35,318 --> 00:36:37,638
Speaker 3: talking about big deals. These are like, you know, ten

741
00:36:37,758 --> 00:36:42,838
Speaker 3: to twenty five million dollars. They were not superstar players.

742
00:36:43,718 --> 00:36:46,398
Speaker 3: This kid, and maybe just someday a team is going

743
00:36:46,438 --> 00:36:48,518
Speaker 3: to be wrong taking this bet on somebody. But to me,

744
00:36:48,598 --> 00:36:50,438
Speaker 3: if you're talking Joe about one of the top two

745
00:36:50,558 --> 00:36:52,798
Speaker 3: or three prospects in baseball.

746
00:36:53,158 --> 00:36:56,998
Speaker 2: And he's a position player, the risk is very low.

747
00:36:57,678 --> 00:36:58,838
Speaker 2: And that's for me.

748
00:36:59,038 --> 00:37:01,958
Speaker 3: If you're talking about someone who's in he's a one percenter,

749
00:37:02,478 --> 00:37:06,078
Speaker 3: he's that exceptional player. He's an Okunya, he's a Luis Robert,

750
00:37:06,198 --> 00:37:09,478
Speaker 3: he's a Brace Harper, he's a Manny Machado. Sign this

751
00:37:09,518 --> 00:37:13,238
Speaker 3: guy because if you don't, and in your place like Milwaukee,

752
00:37:13,558 --> 00:37:15,758
Speaker 3: the minute he steps on the field and that service

753
00:37:15,798 --> 00:37:17,918
Speaker 3: time clock starts running, people are counting down.

754
00:37:17,798 --> 00:37:19,518
Speaker 2: Until it hits six years and he's gone.

755
00:37:19,838 --> 00:37:22,318
Speaker 3: It happened to brace Harper. To me, he never put

756
00:37:22,438 --> 00:37:24,718
Speaker 3: roots down in Washington because everybody was saying, well, he's

757
00:37:24,718 --> 00:37:26,478
Speaker 3: gonna leave as a free agent when he's twenty five.

758
00:37:26,998 --> 00:37:29,198
Speaker 3: His kid gott in the big leagues at nineteen, he's

759
00:37:29,238 --> 00:37:30,638
Speaker 3: going to be out of here at twenty five. It's

760
00:37:30,718 --> 00:37:34,198
Speaker 3: incredible free agent Alex Rodriguez the same thing. So at

761
00:37:34,278 --> 00:37:37,518
Speaker 3: least with Milwaukee, now you know you've got this guy

762
00:37:37,558 --> 00:37:41,598
Speaker 3: for a decade, that that countdown clock, he can forestall that.

763
00:37:41,678 --> 00:37:44,318
Speaker 3: If you're a Brewers fan, you can believe in this kid.

764
00:37:44,358 --> 00:37:46,198
Speaker 3: And he's not gonna sign with the Yankees after he

765
00:37:46,238 --> 00:37:48,558
Speaker 3: puts six years in. Now, listen, there's gonna be the

766
00:37:48,558 --> 00:37:50,718
Speaker 3: team that's gonna get burned somewhere along the line on

767
00:37:50,718 --> 00:37:53,318
Speaker 3: one of these major, major contracts. I'm not talking about

768
00:37:53,358 --> 00:37:56,318
Speaker 3: twenty million dollar one. But we've seen, you know, Corbyn

769
00:37:56,358 --> 00:37:58,918
Speaker 3: Carroll sign the deal. We saw Evan Longori with the

770
00:37:58,998 --> 00:38:01,158
Speaker 3: Rais Joe sign when he got to the big leagues.

771
00:38:01,158 --> 00:38:03,118
Speaker 3: That was a condition of signing up coming up to

772
00:38:03,158 --> 00:38:06,718
Speaker 3: the big leagues. But if you're sure about a position player,

773
00:38:07,238 --> 00:38:09,718
Speaker 3: lock him up. And here's the other thing I like

774
00:38:09,798 --> 00:38:12,558
Speaker 3: from a business point of view, the eighty two million

775
00:38:12,638 --> 00:38:17,478
Speaker 3: dollars is similar to what Machado Harper got in their

776
00:38:17,518 --> 00:38:21,638
Speaker 3: ages twenty to twenty seven seasons. The difference is those

777
00:38:21,678 --> 00:38:24,838
Speaker 3: guys got to free agency and now all of a sudden,

778
00:38:24,878 --> 00:38:28,398
Speaker 3: the numbers are going to astronomical levels, and the cost

779
00:38:28,518 --> 00:38:30,878
Speaker 3: on the back end you either lose the player or

780
00:38:30,918 --> 00:38:33,838
Speaker 3: the cost of retaining him in an auction atmosphere is

781
00:38:33,878 --> 00:38:37,878
Speaker 3: just too high. This kid's two option years and we're

782
00:38:37,878 --> 00:38:39,918
Speaker 3: talking about his age twenty eight and twenty nine seasons

783
00:38:39,998 --> 00:38:43,158
Speaker 3: are only twenty five million dollars. That is cheap for

784
00:38:43,198 --> 00:38:45,478
Speaker 3: a guy you think is going to be a multi

785
00:38:45,718 --> 00:38:49,158
Speaker 3: year All star. So to me, that was, hey, we're

786
00:38:49,158 --> 00:38:53,358
Speaker 3: giving you this security, But to get something back. We

787
00:38:53,438 --> 00:38:56,558
Speaker 3: want your free agent years at twenty five million per

788
00:38:56,678 --> 00:38:59,598
Speaker 3: age twenty eight to twenty nine. That's where the bargain

789
00:38:59,678 --> 00:39:01,958
Speaker 3: comes in. Now, if he's not a perennial All Star

790
00:39:02,398 --> 00:39:04,798
Speaker 3: and he's just an okay player, lost on the deal.

791
00:39:04,838 --> 00:39:07,478
Speaker 3: I get that, But I do like and respect your

792
00:39:07,518 --> 00:39:11,718
Speaker 3: point about when you give someone life changing money, you

793
00:39:11,838 --> 00:39:14,998
Speaker 3: better be sure, as sure as anybody can be, that

794
00:39:15,038 --> 00:39:19,998
Speaker 3: your motivation is not diminished. That because you're satisfied financially

795
00:39:20,078 --> 00:39:22,558
Speaker 3: doesn't mean you're satisfied as a baseball player. So I'm

796
00:39:22,598 --> 00:39:26,318
Speaker 3: trusting the Brewers know that about this kid, that his

797
00:39:26,438 --> 00:39:29,158
Speaker 3: motor is going to rev just as hard. And you know,

798
00:39:29,278 --> 00:39:31,678
Speaker 3: I can actually make the point that having the security

799
00:39:31,718 --> 00:39:33,478
Speaker 3: now makes it easier for him to go out and play,

800
00:39:33,998 --> 00:39:36,158
Speaker 3: and he's not going year to year and trying to

801
00:39:36,158 --> 00:39:38,078
Speaker 3: put up numbers to win an arbitration case.

802
00:39:38,878 --> 00:39:41,278
Speaker 2: So there's two sides to it. I get it.

803
00:39:42,638 --> 00:39:45,238
Speaker 3: But I think to your point, Joe, it starts with

804
00:39:45,358 --> 00:39:48,958
Speaker 3: as a club, you better understand what makes this guy tick.

805
00:39:49,398 --> 00:39:51,478
Speaker 3: You better not take away any motivation.

806
00:39:51,678 --> 00:39:56,278
Speaker 4: Yeah, go ahead, let me tell you I've without mentioning names,

807
00:39:56,358 --> 00:40:00,758
Speaker 4: I had a spectacular young player in the minor leagues.

808
00:40:01,798 --> 00:40:04,038
Speaker 4: He was nineteen or twenty in the Texas League, and

809
00:40:04,078 --> 00:40:07,398
Speaker 4: he was really good, and it was a foregone conclusion,

810
00:40:07,438 --> 00:40:08,958
Speaker 4: discussed going to be a big league player for the

811
00:40:08,958 --> 00:40:12,238
Speaker 4: Angels for years and so forth and so on. It's

812
00:40:12,278 --> 00:40:17,838
Speaker 4: a can't miss situation. Great personality, tremendous work ethic, played hard,

813
00:40:18,038 --> 00:40:22,038
Speaker 4: all this stuff right, and then he gets he got

814
00:40:22,078 --> 00:40:24,838
Speaker 4: injured and he was actually for his rehab. They sent

815
00:40:24,918 --> 00:40:28,398
Speaker 4: him back to Anaheim, which never happens. He always rehab

816
00:40:28,438 --> 00:40:33,438
Speaker 4: as a minor league player, wherever you're at. And so anyway,

817
00:40:33,478 --> 00:40:37,078
Speaker 4: he did that, came back and God, just wasn't the

818
00:40:37,118 --> 00:40:40,918
Speaker 4: same cat anymore. After the next couple of years, the

819
00:40:40,958 --> 00:40:44,638
Speaker 4: abilities diminished, and part of it was just the work.

820
00:40:44,758 --> 00:40:47,518
Speaker 4: After having been there and after having seen how much

821
00:40:47,558 --> 00:40:50,758
Speaker 4: everybody loves him, and there's a foregone conclusion he's going

822
00:40:50,838 --> 00:40:55,238
Speaker 4: to be this great, great player. Something happened within the

823
00:40:55,278 --> 00:40:59,238
Speaker 4: personality the person himself, the kind of immeasurable stuff that

824
00:40:59,558 --> 00:41:02,558
Speaker 4: kind of could only be diminished, maybe through security at

825
00:41:02,558 --> 00:41:05,358
Speaker 4: such a young age, wealth at such a young age.

826
00:41:05,438 --> 00:41:08,278
Speaker 4: I don't know, because I and probably you know, my

827
00:41:08,358 --> 00:41:10,958
Speaker 4: work ethic was probably born of the fact that I

828
00:41:11,038 --> 00:41:14,238
Speaker 4: had to, you know, there wasn't anything there. I don't

829
00:41:14,278 --> 00:41:17,238
Speaker 4: know I would react to having that much money at

830
00:41:17,278 --> 00:41:21,158
Speaker 4: that age, whereas the next ten years are kind of like, wow,

831
00:41:21,358 --> 00:41:23,078
Speaker 4: it really doesn't matter what I do. And I know

832
00:41:23,198 --> 00:41:27,838
Speaker 4: that's hard to say it that way, but wow. The

833
00:41:27,878 --> 00:41:30,758
Speaker 4: whole thing about working and earning is that you do

834
00:41:30,878 --> 00:41:33,318
Speaker 4: work and you earn and eventually it comes up better

835
00:41:33,358 --> 00:41:36,798
Speaker 4: for you. And when you when that's kind of like

836
00:41:36,918 --> 00:41:39,558
Speaker 4: totally subverted and you don't have to do this. You

837
00:41:39,638 --> 00:41:40,998
Speaker 4: just have to show up and play and you're gonna

838
00:41:40,998 --> 00:41:43,558
Speaker 4: get eighty so million bucks. I get the understanding. Now

839
00:41:43,598 --> 00:41:45,678
Speaker 4: you explained it, well, I didn't even know it's ten years,

840
00:41:45,878 --> 00:41:47,518
Speaker 4: so that part of it does make sense that you're

841
00:41:47,558 --> 00:41:49,638
Speaker 4: buying out a couple of years at the end. But

842
00:41:50,718 --> 00:41:53,158
Speaker 4: that's my it's more of a human side. That is

843
00:41:53,198 --> 00:41:56,798
Speaker 4: my concern, the lack of motivation. It's a special person,

844
00:41:56,918 --> 00:42:00,518
Speaker 4: especially at that age, to be able to remain motivated

845
00:42:01,038 --> 00:42:04,598
Speaker 4: and play at that high level when everything'sretty much mapped

846
00:42:04,638 --> 00:42:06,358
Speaker 4: out for you and your family for the rest of

847
00:42:06,398 --> 00:42:06,878
Speaker 4: their lives.

848
00:42:07,238 --> 00:42:08,958
Speaker 3: It's a great point, Joe, And that really is what

849
00:42:09,038 --> 00:42:11,318
Speaker 3: it comes down to. What makes you know this guy

850
00:42:11,398 --> 00:42:14,638
Speaker 3: tick and for instance, Julio Rodriguez and the Mariners.

851
00:42:14,798 --> 00:42:16,318
Speaker 2: He got an even bigger deal, right.

852
00:42:16,678 --> 00:42:18,958
Speaker 3: He had hit the ground running when they worked out

853
00:42:18,998 --> 00:42:20,718
Speaker 3: the deal, so there was something to see on the

854
00:42:20,718 --> 00:42:24,078
Speaker 3: major league level. But the Mariners don't worry about that kid.

855
00:42:24,198 --> 00:42:25,518
Speaker 2: I don't worry about that kid.

856
00:42:25,558 --> 00:42:28,038
Speaker 3: And listen, I know him pretty well, but I don't

857
00:42:28,038 --> 00:42:30,198
Speaker 3: know everything about him. But I know how much he

858
00:42:30,198 --> 00:42:32,678
Speaker 3: loves the game of baseball, and I know what motivates him,

859
00:42:33,038 --> 00:42:36,078
Speaker 3: and it's not money. I mean, he's got security and

860
00:42:36,118 --> 00:42:39,278
Speaker 3: his motivation is just as strong. So the Brewers should

861
00:42:39,278 --> 00:42:41,358
Speaker 3: feel that way about this kid. Otherwise, you don't give

862
00:42:41,358 --> 00:42:43,278
Speaker 3: that kind of money if you have any doubts. Yeah,

863
00:42:43,758 --> 00:42:47,158
Speaker 3: you don't give that kind of security and allow someone

864
00:42:47,198 --> 00:42:48,558
Speaker 3: to go into cruise control.

865
00:42:48,638 --> 00:42:50,958
Speaker 2: But obviously they don't think he's that kind of player.

866
00:42:51,478 --> 00:42:54,518
Speaker 2: So is it a risk. Yeah, Like I said, some point, Joe,

867
00:42:54,558 --> 00:42:55,518
Speaker 2: somebody's going to get burned.

868
00:42:55,518 --> 00:42:58,078
Speaker 3: I mean, there was a time when Yarry Sanchez in

869
00:42:58,118 --> 00:43:00,918
Speaker 3: the Yankee system was considered a better hitter than Aaron

870
00:43:00,998 --> 00:43:03,318
Speaker 3: Judge and he was untouchable in trades.

871
00:43:03,598 --> 00:43:04,678
Speaker 2: You know how that worked out.

872
00:43:05,118 --> 00:43:07,158
Speaker 3: The Mets had a kid, Fernando Martinez who was one

873
00:43:07,158 --> 00:43:09,998
Speaker 3: of the top prospects in baseball, who never made it

874
00:43:10,038 --> 00:43:12,038
Speaker 3: in a game of baseball and had all the tools.

875
00:43:12,078 --> 00:43:14,358
Speaker 3: So yeah, I mean, you know better than anybody, Joe,

876
00:43:14,358 --> 00:43:15,998
Speaker 3: how fickle this game can be. When you look at

877
00:43:16,078 --> 00:43:18,438
Speaker 3: young talent, you try to figure out what's his next

878
00:43:18,438 --> 00:43:21,318
Speaker 3: ten years going to look like. From nineteen to twenty nine, right,

879
00:43:22,798 --> 00:43:25,878
Speaker 3: that's a lot of crystal ball gazing. But in this case,

880
00:43:26,118 --> 00:43:27,998
Speaker 3: like I said, maybe this kid is one of those

881
00:43:28,038 --> 00:43:30,318
Speaker 3: one percenters and we're going to say this this is

882
00:43:30,358 --> 00:43:32,398
Speaker 3: going to look like a bargain it went at the

883
00:43:32,478 --> 00:43:34,398
Speaker 3: end of this deal. That's what the Brewers are thinking.

884
00:43:34,598 --> 00:43:36,798
Speaker 4: I hope it does. I swear to God, I hope

885
00:43:36,838 --> 00:43:39,318
Speaker 4: it does. It's just like everything you just said. I

886
00:43:39,478 --> 00:43:42,998
Speaker 4: understand Rodriguez. I get it, and I'm describing to a

887
00:43:43,038 --> 00:43:45,838
Speaker 4: player that I felt the same way about as any

888
00:43:46,038 --> 00:43:50,438
Speaker 4: nineteen twenty year old. It's just I never ever thought

889
00:43:50,998 --> 00:43:53,518
Speaker 4: this would go sideways because all of a sudden there

890
00:43:53,518 --> 00:43:58,438
Speaker 4: was a change in personality. You're that young and that rich.

891
00:43:58,878 --> 00:44:02,398
Speaker 4: I have no idea what that feels like, and that

892
00:44:02,438 --> 00:44:05,478
Speaker 4: would be somewhat of a can concern to me. If

893
00:44:05,518 --> 00:44:07,078
Speaker 4: I'm passing out that kind of dope.

894
00:44:06,998 --> 00:44:10,398
Speaker 3: Just saying, well, he's in good hands because Pat Murphy

895
00:44:10,478 --> 00:44:12,598
Speaker 3: is his manager starting out in the leagues, and we

896
00:44:12,798 --> 00:44:16,198
Speaker 3: like that, and the fact that, listen to me, there's

897
00:44:16,198 --> 00:44:17,838
Speaker 3: no guarantee this guy is going to be on the

898
00:44:17,878 --> 00:44:20,318
Speaker 3: major league roster opening day. If he falls on his

899
00:44:20,358 --> 00:44:23,278
Speaker 3: face in spring training, I'm sure Murph and the Brewers

900
00:44:23,318 --> 00:44:25,438
Speaker 3: will have no trouble saying, you know what best for

901
00:44:25,478 --> 00:44:27,678
Speaker 3: you to go down take some ab is get yourself,

902
00:44:27,798 --> 00:44:29,598
Speaker 3: you know, squared away here. We want when you get

903
00:44:29,598 --> 00:44:30,918
Speaker 3: to the big leagues, we want you to hit the

904
00:44:30,918 --> 00:44:32,878
Speaker 3: ground running. I don't think just because he has this

905
00:44:32,998 --> 00:44:35,438
Speaker 3: deal that they're bound and obligated to carry him on

906
00:44:35,478 --> 00:44:38,798
Speaker 3: the opening day roster. How would you handle as a manager, Joe.

907
00:44:38,678 --> 00:44:41,398
Speaker 4: I'm just absolutely just going to say, right there, I

908
00:44:41,918 --> 00:44:46,278
Speaker 4: prefer under those circumstances, I think it's normally better to

909
00:44:46,358 --> 00:44:48,718
Speaker 4: send him out, get going, get your feet on the ground,

910
00:44:48,758 --> 00:44:51,518
Speaker 4: start swinging to bat, get things wrong, and then bring

911
00:44:51,558 --> 00:44:54,838
Speaker 4: him up. When you come up out of spring training

912
00:44:54,998 --> 00:44:56,798
Speaker 4: to the big league team for the very first time,

913
00:44:57,238 --> 00:44:58,798
Speaker 4: I mean meaning get to the big leagues for the

914
00:44:58,798 --> 00:45:01,318
Speaker 4: first time straight out of camp, it's a different vibe.

915
00:45:01,358 --> 00:45:03,558
Speaker 4: It's a different feeling and all of a sudden things

916
00:45:03,678 --> 00:45:07,278
Speaker 4: can get a little bit quick, sooner, quicker, whatever you

917
00:45:07,278 --> 00:45:09,918
Speaker 4: want to say. I like the idea of a young

918
00:45:09,918 --> 00:45:12,958
Speaker 4: player getting getting it going, getting his groove back, getting

919
00:45:12,958 --> 00:45:16,678
Speaker 4: his groove on, getting down there. My swing's right, or

920
00:45:16,758 --> 00:45:19,718
Speaker 4: my pitch of my my slot's right, my timing's right,

921
00:45:19,798 --> 00:45:22,478
Speaker 4: my rhythm's right, whatever it is, that's right. And you

922
00:45:22,518 --> 00:45:26,198
Speaker 4: can see that as an evaluator, you know, And of

923
00:45:26,238 --> 00:45:28,118
Speaker 4: course the conversation with the kid will tell you. So

924
00:45:28,598 --> 00:45:31,278
Speaker 4: I like that better. And I know like there's been

925
00:45:31,918 --> 00:45:33,918
Speaker 4: and there's canny may be an argument now about is

926
00:45:34,078 --> 00:45:36,278
Speaker 4: the contract, because I know when kV was brought up,

927
00:45:36,558 --> 00:45:38,398
Speaker 4: he sent down for a little bit of time because

928
00:45:38,438 --> 00:45:42,998
Speaker 4: of the potential for you know, the contract and the

929
00:45:42,998 --> 00:45:44,798
Speaker 4: free agency and all that kind of stuff. And Longo

930
00:45:44,878 --> 00:45:47,318
Speaker 4: was the same way. Longo was brought up and he

931
00:45:47,398 --> 00:45:50,038
Speaker 4: wasn't set up there and there's always this the smoke

932
00:45:50,078 --> 00:45:52,118
Speaker 4: screen that set up. No, he really needs more time

933
00:45:52,118 --> 00:45:54,398
Speaker 4: in the minor leagues as compared to we just don't

934
00:45:54,398 --> 00:45:58,078
Speaker 4: want to get the clock running yet. Under these circumstances,

935
00:45:58,198 --> 00:46:00,558
Speaker 4: I would let him sit for a little bit. There

936
00:46:00,598 --> 00:46:02,358
Speaker 4: could be three weeks. It could be a month, it

937
00:46:02,398 --> 00:46:04,998
Speaker 4: could be two weeks, I think, but I would let

938
00:46:05,078 --> 00:46:09,878
Speaker 4: him get it rolling before I actually brought him up,

939
00:46:09,878 --> 00:46:11,038
Speaker 4: and I think that'd be a better way to do

940
00:46:11,078 --> 00:46:12,038
Speaker 4: it in my opinion.

941
00:46:12,598 --> 00:46:15,318
Speaker 3: Yeah, there's actually no incentives in place for the club

942
00:46:15,358 --> 00:46:18,158
Speaker 3: to carry a guy like that opening day. If he

943
00:46:18,198 --> 00:46:20,078
Speaker 3: finishes in the top three, they can get a draft

944
00:46:20,118 --> 00:46:22,318
Speaker 3: pick if he's on the opening day roster, a top

945
00:46:22,358 --> 00:46:23,358
Speaker 3: three at rookie of the year.

946
00:46:23,478 --> 00:46:24,758
Speaker 2: So we'll see. But I have a.

947
00:46:24,718 --> 00:46:27,518
Speaker 3: Feeling this kid is that talented that he's going to

948
00:46:27,558 --> 00:46:29,798
Speaker 3: have a good spring training. And I think if he

949
00:46:29,958 --> 00:46:33,118
Speaker 3: just shows well in spring training, Joe, I think he's

950
00:46:33,158 --> 00:46:34,478
Speaker 3: their opening day center fielder.

951
00:46:34,518 --> 00:46:37,078
Speaker 4: I do. I haven't seen him. He must be damn good.

952
00:46:37,078 --> 00:46:39,198
Speaker 4: He must be good. Huh, I haven't seen him at all.

953
00:46:39,238 --> 00:46:39,958
Speaker 2: He's really good.

954
00:46:39,998 --> 00:46:41,998
Speaker 3: It hits the ball all field. He's got a flat

955
00:46:42,038 --> 00:46:45,718
Speaker 3: stroke with power. Now listen again, it's nineteen. You're gonna

956
00:46:45,718 --> 00:46:48,278
Speaker 3: see major league pitching. It's spring training, as you know,

957
00:46:48,318 --> 00:46:51,518
Speaker 3: which is a little bit different. But I think as

958
00:46:51,598 --> 00:46:54,198
Speaker 3: long as he doesn't fall in his face, I think

959
00:46:54,278 --> 00:46:56,718
Speaker 3: he'll be on the opening day roster. That's just my guess.

960
00:46:56,998 --> 00:46:59,118
Speaker 3: And the other one to look at. Now, is Jackson

961
00:46:59,118 --> 00:47:02,078
Speaker 3: Holiday Matt Holliday's kid, same situation.

962
00:47:02,358 --> 00:47:03,918
Speaker 2: I think there's no holding him back.

963
00:47:03,998 --> 00:47:05,878
Speaker 3: I guess as he's going to be the Orioles opening

964
00:47:05,958 --> 00:47:08,718
Speaker 3: a shortstop. And now there's some pressure on Baltimore to

965
00:47:08,798 --> 00:47:11,798
Speaker 3: offer this kid the same kind of contract that.

966
00:47:12,118 --> 00:47:13,438
Speaker 2: The Brewers gave Cheerio.

967
00:47:13,518 --> 00:47:17,158
Speaker 3: Doesn't mean Jackson wants that contract, and it has not

968
00:47:17,238 --> 00:47:17,958
Speaker 3: been the Orioles.

969
00:47:18,078 --> 00:47:18,158
Speaker 2: MO.

970
00:47:18,398 --> 00:47:21,318
Speaker 3: We know that to lock these guys up with mega

971
00:47:21,398 --> 00:47:23,118
Speaker 3: deals or any kind of mega deals.

972
00:47:23,318 --> 00:47:24,878
Speaker 2: But we may see it again.

973
00:47:24,918 --> 00:47:27,118
Speaker 3: I don't want to say more often Joe, but the

974
00:47:27,358 --> 00:47:30,798
Speaker 3: very top prospects. I'm talking about the top two or

975
00:47:30,798 --> 00:47:32,838
Speaker 3: three position players. You would never do it with a pitcher,

976
00:47:32,838 --> 00:47:35,238
Speaker 3: of course, just because of the injury factor. But I

977
00:47:35,318 --> 00:47:37,238
Speaker 3: think Jackson Holiday is the next guy to look at.

978
00:47:37,318 --> 00:47:37,958
Speaker 2: Will they get it.

979
00:47:37,918 --> 00:47:41,078
Speaker 3: Done, Probably not, because it's the Orioles, and we'll see

980
00:47:41,078 --> 00:47:44,078
Speaker 3: what happens. But I like the Brewers doing this with

981
00:47:44,158 --> 00:47:45,958
Speaker 3: a young player to tell their fans he's.

982
00:47:45,878 --> 00:47:47,078
Speaker 2: Going to be here for a decade.

983
00:47:47,158 --> 00:47:49,318
Speaker 3: Go out and buy the jersey and you can grow

984
00:47:49,398 --> 00:47:50,758
Speaker 3: up with this guy's your favorite player.

985
00:47:50,798 --> 00:47:52,718
Speaker 4: That's awesome. I mean, I said, I'll just absolutely I'm

986
00:47:52,718 --> 00:47:55,318
Speaker 4: going to be paying more attention to this now. It's

987
00:47:55,358 --> 00:47:58,798
Speaker 4: fascinating to me. It's just antithetical to how we grew

988
00:47:58,878 --> 00:48:01,878
Speaker 4: up in that And again, shoot me for being over fifty,

989
00:48:01,958 --> 00:48:06,398
Speaker 4: but it's just antithetical regarding the earning component. We've talked

990
00:48:06,398 --> 00:48:08,638
Speaker 4: about this all the time, that's all. And I'm probably

991
00:48:08,678 --> 00:48:10,238
Speaker 4: going to be wrong on this one, and I hope.

992
00:48:10,358 --> 00:48:12,998
Speaker 4: I wish him nothing but the best, But again, my

993
00:48:13,078 --> 00:48:17,158
Speaker 4: experience has taught me to be somewhat careful. Even with

994
00:48:17,238 --> 00:48:20,598
Speaker 4: the guy you think you got absolutely nailed down. I

995
00:48:20,718 --> 00:48:23,958
Speaker 4: know what he's like. You'll never change had it and

996
00:48:24,038 --> 00:48:24,958
Speaker 4: it changed.

997
00:48:24,958 --> 00:48:27,118
Speaker 3: Well show hey, Otani to bring it back where we

998
00:48:27,198 --> 00:48:28,638
Speaker 3: started has definitely earned it.

999
00:48:28,758 --> 00:48:30,598
Speaker 2: Joe, as you know, he came over here.

1000
00:48:31,358 --> 00:48:33,318
Speaker 3: If he waited another year, he could have gotten an

1001
00:48:33,398 --> 00:48:35,838
Speaker 3: unlimited amount of money, but because of his age and

1002
00:48:35,918 --> 00:48:39,078
Speaker 3: experience in Japan, actually had a ceiling on the amount

1003
00:48:39,078 --> 00:48:40,838
Speaker 3: of money he can get as a free agent coming

1004
00:48:40,838 --> 00:48:43,558
Speaker 3: in the first time, and has proved himself by playing

1005
00:48:43,598 --> 00:48:46,078
Speaker 3: baseball the way nobody has in the history of the game,

1006
00:48:46,278 --> 00:48:49,598
Speaker 3: by being an every dh and pitcher for so many

1007
00:48:49,678 --> 00:48:52,438
Speaker 3: years like this, It's never been done before. I mean, whatever,

1008
00:48:52,478 --> 00:48:54,758
Speaker 3: he gets and your jaw's probably going to drop with

1009
00:48:54,798 --> 00:48:57,758
Speaker 3: that number. Starts with either a five or six, he

1010
00:48:57,878 --> 00:49:00,318
Speaker 3: will have earned it. So I just wanted to bring

1011
00:49:00,358 --> 00:49:03,078
Speaker 3: that back to full circle. And maybe it happens this week.

1012
00:49:03,278 --> 00:49:04,958
Speaker 3: I think we're getting to a point where show Hey

1013
00:49:04,998 --> 00:49:07,838
Speaker 3: knows what he wants and the teams know the number.

1014
00:49:08,118 --> 00:49:09,158
Speaker 2: There's no bargains here.

1015
00:49:09,478 --> 00:49:12,278
Speaker 3: It's gonna hurt to sign this contract, but you'll probably

1016
00:49:13,518 --> 00:49:15,518
Speaker 3: I'm sure you'll love having him on your roster.

1017
00:49:15,798 --> 00:49:18,238
Speaker 4: I got it starting with a six. Okay, I'm starting

1018
00:49:18,238 --> 00:49:21,398
Speaker 4: with a six. I think that's a lot. You're gonna

1019
00:49:21,438 --> 00:49:23,558
Speaker 4: have to be there to get him. Like I said,

1020
00:49:23,558 --> 00:49:26,718
Speaker 4: because just measure all the ancillaries, all the things that

1021
00:49:27,358 --> 00:49:30,038
Speaker 4: he's going to bring to the table, besides just being

1022
00:49:30,038 --> 00:49:34,678
Speaker 4: your dh your starting picture, it's gonna start with the six.

1023
00:49:35,038 --> 00:49:39,198
Speaker 3: I can't argue, can't argue. Yeah, we'll see and again,

1024
00:49:39,198 --> 00:49:41,758
Speaker 3: maybe it's gonna happen this week. In the meantime, we'll

1025
00:49:41,758 --> 00:49:44,358
Speaker 3: be on top of anything. It happens at the winter meetings,

1026
00:49:44,358 --> 00:49:47,518
Speaker 3: we'll be back at you and Joe. You always do

1027
00:49:47,558 --> 00:49:49,198
Speaker 3: a great job taking this out at the end of

1028
00:49:49,238 --> 00:49:51,958
Speaker 3: these Yeah, and what do you got in store for

1029
00:49:52,038 --> 00:49:52,518
Speaker 3: us tonight.

1030
00:49:52,838 --> 00:49:56,878
Speaker 4: Got to run on top of this again. Brother, you know,

1031
00:49:57,078 --> 00:49:57,758
Speaker 4: you being there.

1032
00:49:57,918 --> 00:50:01,638
Speaker 3: I'm not surprised you being there and you being there

1033
00:50:01,638 --> 00:50:02,798
Speaker 3: and everything that's going on.

1034
00:50:03,198 --> 00:50:07,278
Speaker 4: I researched the word one word, and it came down

1035
00:50:07,278 --> 00:50:12,758
Speaker 4: to this. Wisdom consists of the anticipation of consequences. I

1036
00:50:12,838 --> 00:50:14,518
Speaker 4: love that, you know, and it was a guy by

1037
00:50:14,598 --> 00:50:15,838
Speaker 4: name of Norman Cousins.

1038
00:50:16,038 --> 00:50:18,558
Speaker 3: That's the definition of baseball, by the way, right, the

1039
00:50:18,598 --> 00:50:22,078
Speaker 3: definition of baseball right. I mean, yes, action is great,

1040
00:50:22,078 --> 00:50:24,998
Speaker 3: but the anticipation of it is more than half the fun.

1041
00:50:25,038 --> 00:50:28,478
Speaker 4: The anticipation of consequences. That loved that. I loved those

1042
00:50:28,478 --> 00:50:31,478
Speaker 4: three words together. And was Norman Cousins. I guess he

1043
00:50:31,518 --> 00:50:34,038
Speaker 4: was a political writer back in the day, some kind

1044
00:50:34,078 --> 00:50:39,558
Speaker 4: of a writer, a journalist. Wisdom consists of the anticipation

1045
00:50:39,678 --> 00:50:43,238
Speaker 4: of consequences. That makes Matt Arnold wise.

1046
00:50:45,278 --> 00:50:47,798
Speaker 2: Well said, Joe, enjoyed it. We'll see you next time.

1047
00:50:48,038 --> 00:50:49,638
Speaker 4: Have a great time there. Say ahead to my buddies.

1048
00:50:49,838 --> 00:50:50,198
Speaker 2: We'll do.

1049
00:50:58,038 --> 00:51:01,278
Speaker 1: The Book of Joe podcast is a production of iHeart Radio.

1050
00:51:01,518 --> 00:51:05,318
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1051
00:51:05,398 --> 00:51:08,358
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