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Speaker 1: Welcome to the drive. I'm Dale Lalli. He is Matt Williamson,

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Speaker 1: and well, Matt, it's a Friday here in Pittsburgh. We

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Speaker 1: are a little under a week away from the first

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Speaker 1: practice for the Steelers this in this year's training camp,

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Speaker 1: and I wanted to talk about something here, Matt.

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Speaker 2: All right.

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Speaker 1: I continue to see and hear, and the latest is

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Speaker 1: calling blowhard I mean coward coming out and comparing the

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Speaker 1: Steelers to the Kansas City Chiefs and saying that you

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Speaker 1: know that the Steelers are spending only the Steelers are

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Speaker 1: only spending one hundred million dollars on their offense, So

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Speaker 1: the Chiefs are spending one hundred and thirty million dollars

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Speaker 1: on their offense. And it shows you just what kind

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Speaker 1: of commitment. Does he not understand that the quarterback is

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Speaker 1: making Patrick Mahons makes thirty six million dollars right right,

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Speaker 1: Kenny Pickett makes Kenny Pickett makes about six million dollars.

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Speaker 1: There's your difference.

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Speaker 2: That's the whole difference. I mean, they traded Tyreek Hill

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Speaker 2: because of money, right, I mean, And if you wanted

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Speaker 2: to call I don't know. I didn't hear how he

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Speaker 2: said it. But is he indirectly calling the Steelers cheap

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Speaker 2: or frugal.

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Speaker 1: No, he's saying they're doing a bad roster bill because

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Speaker 1: they're spending they're not spending enough money on offense. It's

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Speaker 1: too tilted for the defense. It's that same old, stupid,

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Speaker 1: ridiculous argument. It doesn't matter how you have the money

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Speaker 1: allocated on your roster, it's what where your resources. Money

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Speaker 1: is just one of the resources that you use to

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Speaker 1: build your roster. Draft choices are the other one.

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Speaker 2: Right, right, right, Okay, I see what you're getting at here,

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Speaker 2: because I was gonna say, if you're gonna call him cheap,

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Speaker 2: like they're not gonna pay someone, well, Ben was not

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Speaker 2: making Mahomes money, but similar I mean he was upper

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Speaker 2: to your money for a lot a lot of years.

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Speaker 2: I mean it's not like they don't pay guys. But anyway,

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Speaker 2: I come back to the Bengals on this conversation. All

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Speaker 2: the time, you know that the Bengals build a defense

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Speaker 2: in free agency with money. They build an offense with

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Speaker 2: draft picks, early ones, Chase Burrow, etc. Even Jonah Williams,

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Speaker 2: whether they hit or not. But now they're gonna have

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Speaker 2: to pay the offense, which used to be super cheap

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Speaker 2: and draft the defense. Thus the last two first round

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Speaker 2: picks have been defensive players for the Bengals, you know,

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Speaker 2: Dax Hill and Miles Murphy. And because the money's gonna

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Speaker 2: end up on one side of the ball and suppose

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Speaker 2: to the other, it's difficult to be sixteenth and spending

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Speaker 2: on defense and sixteenth and spending on offense. And I'm

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Speaker 2: gonna say it's right or wrong to do that. That

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Speaker 2: would be fine, But when you get lopsided, it's usually

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Speaker 2: because you're very young on one side of the ball,

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Speaker 2: which is a nice situation to be in if they're

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Speaker 2: good players, right.

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Speaker 1: I just people are saying stuff like this or again

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Speaker 1: are arguing for the sake of argument. Right, So following

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Speaker 1: that up in this Twitter discussion, and some moron out there,

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Speaker 1: and that's what he is, He's a moron wants to

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Speaker 1: claim that it's all it's all because of the offensive

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Speaker 1: coordinator with the Steelers, that that that's the only difference

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Speaker 1: between the Steelers and the Chiefs, because the play caller

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Speaker 1: makes all the difference in the world, totally discounting the

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Speaker 1: fact that Patrick Mahomes is the best player in the.

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Speaker 2: NFL, on the planet, or maybe that I've ever seen,

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Speaker 2: you know.

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Speaker 1: So I tweeted back at this guy, I'm like, so

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Speaker 1: you're telling me that that if I took if I

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Speaker 1: took Patrick Mahomes and put him on this Steelers team,

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Speaker 1: they're super Bowl contenders right away.

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Speaker 2: Of course they are, and.

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Speaker 1: Maybe the favorites.

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Speaker 2: I'm not even sure that the Texans wouldn't be a

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Speaker 2: playoff contender.

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Speaker 1: That's what always my plan said. Patrick Mahomes makes any

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Speaker 1: team that he is on a contender.

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Speaker 2: Now that sounds like we're selling Andy Reid short. And

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Speaker 2: I think in some ways we are because he had

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Speaker 2: great success with Kevin Cobb and you know, debts and guys.

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Speaker 1: I don't know that he had great success because before

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Speaker 1: he got the Kansas City he was considered a playoff choker.

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Speaker 2: But he got those teams of the playoffs.

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Speaker 1: I mean that's all. That's all well and good, but

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Speaker 1: he didn't win in.

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Speaker 2: The playoffs, win super Bowls.

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Speaker 1: When he didn't win playoff games with those guys. The

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Speaker 1: only time he won playoff games in Philadelphia was when

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Speaker 1: he and Donoan mcnapp.

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Speaker 2: Right right, and he went from public perception was a

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Speaker 2: tier coat two coach behind Belichick.

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Speaker 1: Was considered he was considered Marty Schottenheimer.

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Speaker 2: A really good coach. I mean, I definitely think having

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Speaker 2: an elite offensive play caller, play designer has immense value.

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Speaker 2: But I would rather have Mahomes, you know, no doubt.

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Speaker 1: Andy Reid with with Alex Smith was not winning Super Bowls.

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Speaker 2: No, it was a bet. He got the most out

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Speaker 2: of Smith. He got the most out of Cobb. But

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Speaker 2: there's a ceiling there because back to the Niners, I mean,

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Speaker 2: the Niners thought they had a ceiling with Jimmy, so

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Speaker 2: therefore they traded everything they had for trade Lance. Whether

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Speaker 2: that works out or not, it didn't, but that's why

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Speaker 2: they made the Lance move was coaching can only take

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Speaker 2: me so far. I need to go find someone that

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Speaker 2: has superpowers and Lance may stink, but that was there.

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Speaker 2: They don't make that trade if I'm wrong about that,

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Speaker 2: That's why they made the trade.

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Speaker 1: Right right. I will say this, the NFL is a

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Speaker 1: coaching league. It is and stars. It's it's about having

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Speaker 1: stars and it's about having coaches because everybody has talent

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Speaker 1: across the board. Sure, it's what do you do with

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Speaker 1: that talent? Can you get that talent past you know,

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Speaker 1: the next step and there's there's obviously luck involved in

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Speaker 1: all those things, you know, injury, injury, luck and things

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Speaker 1: of that nature.

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Speaker 2: Real quick though, Another example is the Rams. We have

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Speaker 2: Jared Goff. We got to the super Bowl, but I

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Speaker 2: think that's my ceiling coaching. Jared Goff can only take

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Speaker 2: me so far. What am I gonna do? I'm gonna

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Speaker 2: give up a ton of resources to go get Stafford.

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Speaker 2: You know, same thing is what the Niners did. I

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Speaker 2: mean it's a different approach Stafford versus trade Lance, but

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Speaker 2: same thing. Two of the best quote offensive mines in

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Speaker 2: the league and same kind of a three. We can

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Speaker 2: only get so far postseason, but we can't get past

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Speaker 2: without an upgraded quarterback. So you go and you got Mahomes.

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Speaker 2: They didn't have to trade for Mahomes. They were a

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Speaker 2: playoff team in Kansas City with Alex Smith and traded

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Speaker 2: up to get Mahomes. I mean, that was a good

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Speaker 2: team and Mahomes only played one game as a rookie.

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Speaker 2: Same with the Rams. They were a super Bowl team

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Speaker 2: and then they trade Golf. The Niners super Bowl team trade,

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Speaker 2: you know, trade for Lance. You know, so quarterbacks most

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Speaker 2: important thing.

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Speaker 3: Puts out of doubt and you know, you know, I

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Speaker 3: look at Kenny Pickett and I keep one of the

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Speaker 3: other things that I see out there a lot of

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Speaker 3: is It's just you know, is Matt Canada or the

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Speaker 3: Steelers are they going to continue.

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Speaker 1: To hold Kenny Pickett back. Here's the thing in his

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Speaker 1: In the ten games that Pickett started and finished last year, Man,

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Speaker 1: at ten games he started and finished the game, he

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Speaker 1: threw three hundred and fifty seven passes. Now I'm no

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Speaker 1: mathematician here, but I did go to upj heck. Yeah, man,

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Speaker 1: that's an average of thirty five point seven passes per game.

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Speaker 2: Number.

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Speaker 1: Do you know how many passes Ben Roethlisberger averaged per

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Speaker 1: game in his rookie year in his fourteenth starts seventeen,

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Speaker 1: it was nineteen point six.

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Speaker 2: Okay, I remember one was eleven. One time he threw

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Speaker 2: eleven passes. Way, yeah.

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Speaker 1: To bring it up to a little a little more,

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Speaker 1: something a little closer to today's date. Trevor Lawrence in

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Speaker 1: his rookie year, you know many passes attempts Heat had

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Speaker 1: his rookie season per game? I know you don't, so

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Speaker 1: thirt thirty five point four he averaged per game?

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Speaker 2: Wow, And they were losing by a million in the

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Speaker 2: fourth quarter.

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Speaker 1: Picket average more passes per game than Trevor Lawrence did.

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Speaker 1: But somehow the Steelers are holding him back.

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Speaker 2: See I never get I've been asked this a lot lately.

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Speaker 2: You are they gonna take the take the reins off

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Speaker 2: a picket? Are they gonna let him cook? Kind of?

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Speaker 1: There weren't fifty passes a game, right, I never thought that.

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Speaker 2: The only when I get asked that question, it's often

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Speaker 2: like they just don't want him to screw it up.

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Speaker 2: Just you know that the lack of turnovers in the

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Speaker 2: second half wasn't a compliment to Kenny. It was the

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Speaker 2: coaches saying, just throw it in the dirt. Because I

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Speaker 2: didn't see that. I didn't passer, I did not see

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Speaker 2: Alex Smith's is always the brunt of this joke. But

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Speaker 2: you know on third and eight, Kenny wasn't throwing at

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Speaker 2: five yards, you know, I mean Alex Smith was notorious

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Speaker 2: for that stuff. Or I never saw a lack of

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Speaker 2: aggression or obvious mandate from the coaching staff that just

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Speaker 2: don't screw it up.

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Speaker 1: I mean, not the Codges stuff, No, not, I mean

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Speaker 1: that that was a conservative game plan when you when

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Speaker 1: you when you're running a bunch of shovel passes and

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Speaker 1: and you know things like that. I mean, that's conservative.

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Speaker 1: I never thought that they were super conservative with Picket.

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Speaker 1: Now what I what I did think was that Picket

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Speaker 1: struggled in the red zone. We've talked about this a

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Speaker 1: thousand times, you know, Rolls did. Trevor Lawrence is a

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Speaker 1: rookie or every other rookie that's ever started a game

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Speaker 1: in the NFL. Doesn't. You don't just come in and, oh,

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Speaker 1: look at he's he's like one of the top bread

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Speaker 1: zone passers in the league. No, Lawrence in year his

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Speaker 1: first year averaged thirty five point four passes per game.

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Speaker 1: Last year he averaged thirty four point four, so one

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Speaker 1: past one pass per game fewer. The difference was. As

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Speaker 1: a rookie, Lawrence through twelve touchdown passes and had seventeen interceptions.

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Speaker 1: In his second season, he threw twenty five touchdown passes

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Speaker 1: with eight interceptions.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. I mean they also were playing with leads and

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Speaker 2: then more around him and better.

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Speaker 1: He got better in the red zone and he got better.

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Speaker 2: Right right, Yeah, I mean even early in his second season,

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Speaker 2: Lawrence was struggling. The last I mean, September wasn't great

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Speaker 2: for Lawrence, you know, but he got better and better

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Speaker 2: and better. So I don't know if you caught this,

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Speaker 2: but I threw this tweet out yesterday. In the last

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Speaker 2: ten years, rookie quarterbacks when they start win just under

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Speaker 2: thirty six percent of their games for the league. Now,

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Speaker 2: I understand some of them are first overall picks, like

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Speaker 2: Lawrence going too bad situations, but that's a terrible win percentage.

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Speaker 2: And I don't think quarterback win losses is one hundred

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Speaker 2: percent of quarterback stat But if you're hitting over thirty

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Speaker 2: six percent of your wins when you start a quarterback. Oh,

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Speaker 2: by the way, Ben destroys that, but he was in

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Speaker 2: the last ten is really remarkable. I mean, if you

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Speaker 2: can win fifty percent of your games or so with

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Speaker 2: the rookie quarterback, you're way above the meet.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. And you know, if you look at Pickett's stats

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Speaker 1: from last year, really again, I I like he gets

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Speaker 1: credit for the winner that against He didn't get credit

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Speaker 1: in one game where he came in and replaced Trubisky.

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Speaker 1: He also got credit in another game where he got

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Speaker 1: knocked out. So it's kind of say, if you look

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Speaker 1: at the games after the bye, the Saints, the Bengals,

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Speaker 1: the Colts, the Atlanta game he got hurt after throwing

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Speaker 1: one pass against Baltimore. They lost that game. Well that

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Speaker 1: goes as a loss in his column. But he came

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Speaker 1: back against the Rams, the Ravens, and the Browns. He

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Speaker 1: went six and one in those starts.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, right. I mean, I didn't bring up his

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Speaker 2: win loss percentage on purpose or win loss record on

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Speaker 2: purpose because I think in games he started, the Steelers

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Speaker 2: were seven and five, but he didn't finish them. Start finished,

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Speaker 2: and he came in off the bench and all those things.

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Speaker 2: But they were a winning team with him as their quarterback.

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Speaker 2: And if you're over, if you're winning more than one

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Speaker 2: out of three, that's better than league average. And he

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Speaker 2: was the twentieth pick in the draft, not the first,

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Speaker 2: you know what I mean. Like I'm just saying, comparing

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Speaker 2: to other rookies over the last ten years, he wasn't

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Speaker 2: the highly touted one. I mean, and then I know

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Speaker 2: those guys go to worst teams. I get all that,

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Speaker 2: but still, I mean, I don't know. So another thing

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Speaker 2: I'm looking up here is the This is a little

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Speaker 2: dorky by me, but I've been in nerd week to

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Speaker 2: no end with stats that pass rate over expectations. Now,

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Speaker 2: I'm sure people are like, come on, Williams, and you're

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Speaker 2: going crazy here, but the league has if it's if

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Speaker 2: you're up by four in the third quarter and you've

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Speaker 2: the ball to fifty yard line, the league passes x

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Speaker 2: percent of time, and so if you're a little over that,

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Speaker 2: you're you know, so you know over the league norm. Oh,

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Speaker 2: I'll cut it down to real quick. When Picket actually

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Speaker 2: took over as the starter the next three games, their

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Speaker 2: pass rate over expectation was the three highest of the

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Speaker 2: season by far. So he came in and they threw

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Speaker 2: a lot. Then they went to buy and as everyone

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Speaker 2: probably figured out, the second half of the season, they

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Speaker 2: were well below pass rate over expectation. And people hold

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Speaker 2: that against him, and I'm like, that wasn't a Picket reflection.

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Speaker 2: That was because they were running the ball so well

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Speaker 2: when they were winning, you.

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Speaker 1: Know, like they were winning those games.

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Speaker 2: You know, I'm a stat nerd, but you have to

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Speaker 2: have context with it as to why use the stat

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Speaker 2: as a tool, not just oh, they must think Picket terrible.

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Speaker 2: They just reeled him in. No, they were run the

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Speaker 2: ball well, and they were winning.

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Speaker 1: Right, Winning makes the difference, but a game. But even that,

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Speaker 1: if you look at the games after the bye, he

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Speaker 1: threw thirty passes against New Orleans. He threw forty two

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Speaker 1: in the loss of the Bengals. He had twenty eight

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Speaker 1: against Indianapolis, twenty eight against Atlanta. He threw thirty nine

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Speaker 1: passes against the Raiders. Again, that was like a zero

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Speaker 1: degree weather game. He threw twenty seven passes at Baltimore

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Speaker 1: in the rain. That was that was a wet game.

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Speaker 1: And then he threw twenty nine against Cleveland in the finale,

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Speaker 1: and again.

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Speaker 2: A lot of it's just the sniff test too.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, but it's not like they weren't throwing the football

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Speaker 1: in those situations.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, right, if it was, well, here's another great example

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Speaker 2: actually is third downs. I mean, if they were afraid

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Speaker 2: of him or reeling him in on third and eight,

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Speaker 2: they'd be running draws. Meanwhile, he's converting it like a

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Speaker 2: league high pace on third down in the second half

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Speaker 2: of the season, throwing the football, you know, I mean,

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Speaker 2: go win it for us, Kenny or several of these

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Speaker 2: games late in the game, they don't take the ball

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Speaker 2: out of his hands, you know. I mean watching the games,

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Speaker 2: you never got the impression they're scared of their quarterback.

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Speaker 2: They're hiding their quarterback.

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Speaker 1: No, I mean when the game was on the line,

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Speaker 1: you know, they came out and threw the football. They

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Speaker 1: may have played it closer to the vest before that,

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Speaker 1: but that's because they were running the ball and playing

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Speaker 1: better on defense.

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Speaker 2: Well, they were finding their identity as a team too, right, right.

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Speaker 1: They came out and wanted to establish their running game

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Speaker 1: and their defense, and they did that in the second

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Speaker 1: half of the game. It's very much. I don't want

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Speaker 1: to say it's very much. You know, early in Roethlisberger's career,

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Speaker 1: in his rookie season, they would often throw throw early

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Speaker 1: to run late. With pickt it was kind of the opposite.

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Speaker 1: They would run the ball early and throw the ball

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Speaker 1: late and put it on Okay, Kenny, go win the

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Speaker 1: game for us.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, you got a good feel for things. We trust

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Speaker 2: you throw the football, right, Yeah, go make a play. Yeah.

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Speaker 2: But I mean, hey, if you want to. Offense coordinators

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Speaker 2: are like the most scrutinizing in the world. I mean,

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Speaker 2: everyone thinks it's easy to call plays on Monday. I mean,

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Speaker 2: I get that and hey, I have some candidate issues

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Speaker 2: as well. I think there's a lot of things about

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Speaker 2: the offense as a whole that need to evolve or

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Speaker 2: get better. But to say that they're holding the quarterback

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Speaker 2: back isn't fair, you know what I mean, Or they're

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Speaker 2: afraid of the quarterback or hiding him. I don't think

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Speaker 2: that's true.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I don't see that at all. And I think

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Speaker 1: again to the where we started with this, If you

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Speaker 1: put Patrick Mahomes with the Steelers, they're a Super Bowl contender.

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Speaker 1: If you put put Kenny Pickt with the Chiefs, their

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Speaker 1: season probably looks a lot like what the Steelers season

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Speaker 1: did last year.

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Speaker 2: I would fight that it's even stronger. I mean, if

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Speaker 2: the Steelers had my homes, they're over underwind. Total should

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Speaker 2: be like fourteen. Yeah, honestly, like, I don't know who

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Speaker 2: the second best team in the league is. If it's

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Speaker 2: even close, like with respect of the Eagles or the Bills,

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Speaker 2: the Steelers plus Mahomes would be far and away the

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Speaker 2: best team in the league. They may be better than

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Speaker 2: the Chiefs right now.

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Speaker 1: Why I think you are when you I mean when

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Speaker 1: you look at their you look at Kansas City's roster

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Speaker 1: I mean fine, but it's a good roster. It's not

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Speaker 1: a great roster. Not that the Steelers have a great roster.

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Speaker 1: They have a good roster though, and they have depth.

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Speaker 2: Right right, And frankly, I don't know that the Chiefs

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Speaker 2: win the division with Picket. You know last year version

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Speaker 2: of Pickett. You know, a good rookie. Yeah, Holmes, he's

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Speaker 2: the best player in the world.

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Speaker 1: He's the best player in the world. That's the long

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Speaker 1: and the short of it. That's that's where we started this,

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Speaker 1: that's where we end this segment.

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Speaker 2: He has shore. Phil Jackson was a tremendous coach, but

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Speaker 2: I think it helped who he coached.

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Speaker 1: As I always says, Jimmy's and Joe's not the x's

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Speaker 1: and o's. In many cases, like the the x's and

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Speaker 1: o's can can help you break ties, oh big time

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Speaker 1: if the talent is close. But the Jimmys and Joe's

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Speaker 1: the teams, the team that has the best Jimmys and

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Speaker 1: Joe's usually wins.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. I bet Lemieux and Jordan and those guys win

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Speaker 2: a title or two probably, no matter who their coaches.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, unless it's me or you, somebody that's semi qualified.

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Speaker 1: He is Matt Williams and I am Dale. Allie, you're

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Speaker 1: listening to the Drive here on Steelers Nation Radio. We're

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Speaker 1: going to take a break. We'll be back with more

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Speaker 1: right after this