Speaker 1: Welcome to How the Money. I'm Joel and I am Matt,
Speaker 1: and today we're asking the question can we count on
Speaker 1: social Security? Or is it busted? Or is social Security busted?
Speaker 1: Is it broken? Joel? I'm actually super excited that we're
Speaker 1: gonna talk about social security this episode because I don't
Speaker 1: know if we've ever actually talked about it over the
Speaker 1: hundreds of definitely not in depth. Not in depth. We
Speaker 1: may have talked about it, like, uh, maybe on like
Speaker 1: an ask How the Money episode, how do I maximize
Speaker 1: my Social Security benefits? Maybe we answer something like that
Speaker 1: a year ago, that kind of thing, but we've never
Speaker 1: dedicated an entire episode to social security, and so I'm
Speaker 1: stoked that we really are going to do a deep
Speaker 1: dive into this thing that so many of us are
Speaker 1: aware of, but we're not totally sure what to do
Speaker 1: about it and truly how it's going to affect our
Speaker 1: lives on the road, especially with some of the recent
Speaker 1: headlines about the projected shortfalls of social security, like, oh,
Speaker 1: you're getting ahead of yourself now. I'm just saying people
Speaker 1: are probably like, what's going on and how does this
Speaker 1: affect me? We're going to cover that today before we
Speaker 1: get to that. Man, I wanted to ask you a question,
Speaker 1: is it frugal or cheap for me to buy used
Speaker 1: presence for people for Christmas? And I'll give you the specifics,
Speaker 1: but by kind of what your first? So my overall
Speaker 1: general philosophy is it completely depends on the type of gift. Right,
Speaker 1: Like you get a used car for a kid, that's
Speaker 1: a that's a pretty awesome gift, right Like used cars
Speaker 1: are that's a normal thing. But if you've got like
Speaker 1: some secondhand shoes from like a thrift store that is
Speaker 1: not gonna fly. Secondhand shoes or socks for that matter,
Speaker 1: probably not the best gift. I think that would probably
Speaker 1: be considered cheap. But what did you have specifically? Kind?
Speaker 1: So here's here's what I've done. I someone on Facebook
Speaker 1: yard sale recently posted a bunch of like the really
Speaker 1: nice kids trucks, the hest trucks, remember the other yeah,
Speaker 1: those like they're really good, and the Hess racing team
Speaker 1: back in the day. I remember the green they had
Speaker 1: the race cars exactly. Uh oh yeah. So my little
Speaker 1: two year old every time he goes over to one
Speaker 1: of our friend's house houses, they have a stash of
Speaker 1: these trucks and he instantly like runs for that cupboard exactly,
Speaker 1: and he will sit there and play for hours. And
Speaker 1: so someone posted a bunch of these trucks for sale
Speaker 1: and it wasn't cheap, but they're really really nice trucks
Speaker 1: and they last a really long time. Um, but it
Speaker 1: was way way, way, way less expensive. Like I'm getting
Speaker 1: basically like twenty of these trucks for the like three
Speaker 1: so um. Yeah, so I am buying him used cars
Speaker 1: and these are going to then, uh, some of these
Speaker 1: are going to be safe for Christmas, some for next
Speaker 1: year's birthday, like just kind of keep keep adding to
Speaker 1: the collection exactly. Over genius, Okay, alright, so yeah, in
Speaker 1: this case, they're used. Totally cool, but the value proposition
Speaker 1: is just way better than trying to buy new ones
Speaker 1: or buy cheaper versions of those trucks that aren't nearly school.
Speaker 1: Especially to uh kind of pinching off the truck hose
Speaker 1: and only letting a few of them out maybe this
Speaker 1: Christmas and then letting some of the other trucks come
Speaker 1: out next year. I think that's genius because otherwise, if
Speaker 1: you're going to give them to them all at once,
Speaker 1: I'm like, dude, is that what you want to introduce
Speaker 1: into your life different has trucks. In that case, I'd
Speaker 1: be like, we'll spend the same amount of money and
Speaker 1: just have less clutter in your life. But the ability
Speaker 1: for him to kind of grow up with these and
Speaker 1: for him to maybe take care of him put them
Speaker 1: away where they're supposed to go as he gets older.
Speaker 1: I think that's a super frugal move, dude. And when
Speaker 1: I said buying a kids used car, I meant like
Speaker 1: an actual Automa, Like I know you're going to talk
Speaker 1: about actual trucks, but I mean it also depends on
Speaker 1: your financial situation, right, because there's some individuals where it's like, hey,
Speaker 1: that's what Christmas looks like for a lot of folks.
Speaker 1: And so obviously you have to be aware of the
Speaker 1: kind of financial situation that you're in, um and and
Speaker 1: you never want to go into debt to buy new
Speaker 1: stuff for gifts if you can't afford it. And if
Speaker 1: that's the case, you know, giving experiences or homemade gifts.
Speaker 1: There's so many other ways you can go use gifts.
Speaker 1: I think is one of those things. Just be thoughtful
Speaker 1: about the way that you're doing it. Absolutely. I mean,
Speaker 1: I think even Kate would be down with something if
Speaker 1: I even if I got it at a thrift store,
Speaker 1: if it was something that she was looking for, or
Speaker 1: if it was a vintage item or like a very
Speaker 1: high quality item that I would never spend hundreds of
Speaker 1: dollars on just for this shirt or you know, like
Speaker 1: a nice jacket, that kind of thing. To people around here,
Speaker 1: they donate all sorts of stuff to the thrift store,
Speaker 1: like really nice stuff, and I think some of those
Speaker 1: nicer items would definitely be received well for sure. Al Right, well,
Speaker 1: let's keep moving on, Matt. We're drinking a beer on
Speaker 1: today's episode, like we do pretty much every episode. This
Speaker 1: one is called Roosevelt Coffee Stout. It's by Old and
Speaker 1: Tangy River Brewing, and listener Scott sent this one our way.
Speaker 1: We'll give our thoughts on this beer at the end
Speaker 1: of the episode. But Matt, let's get on to the
Speaker 1: subject in hand. We are talking about social security and
Speaker 1: we're asking, like, can any of us count on this
Speaker 1: money being there when we hit retirement age, especially, and
Speaker 1: we have a lot of listeners in their twenties and thirties.
Speaker 1: Is the system busted or is there going to be
Speaker 1: something there for me? And we just kind of want
Speaker 1: to give people an overall picture of what's happening right now. Um,
Speaker 1: and then kind of how you can think about the
Speaker 1: role that social security should play in your retirement and
Speaker 1: mat It makes me think, like climate change, it feels
Speaker 1: like one of those things that we as individuals can
Speaker 1: have very little impact on. We hear the stories about it,
Speaker 1: we hear new studies come out, and it's hard not
Speaker 1: to get just kind of like depressed or or or
Speaker 1: just assume that there's nothing new. Isn't an individual can
Speaker 1: do on that level to make a difference, Right, Well,
Speaker 1: I mean I think a lot of times too, maybe
Speaker 1: up until recently, it's always seemed like this thing that's
Speaker 1: just really way off in the distance, right, Like guess
Speaker 1: basically not something that we're ever truly going to get to. Uh,
Speaker 1: definitely not something we should worry about in our younger years.
Speaker 1: But in this case, we have seen some of the
Speaker 1: impacts of climate change in our lives, yeah, for sure.
Speaker 1: And so then we begin to ask ourselves questions about
Speaker 1: how we can respond. Can writing bikes more or eating
Speaker 1: less meat? Like those are two things that people quickly
Speaker 1: point to as ways that's you as an individual can
Speaker 1: combat climate change, but how is that really affecting things
Speaker 1: on a global level? Is that going to prevent the
Speaker 1: next disastrous hurricane? Right? Um? You know that one act alone,
Speaker 1: it can seem doesn't really do all that much, and
Speaker 1: that is true. But the aggregation of a lot of folks,
Speaker 1: of all of us taking small actions, um, and taking
Speaker 1: consistent action, it does go a long way. It makes
Speaker 1: a real difference. And I think the social security system
Speaker 1: can feel a lot like that, right. It feels like
Speaker 1: something that we have no control over. We see the
Speaker 1: headlines and we're like, wait, is there actually gonna be
Speaker 1: any money left for me once I reach retirement age?
Speaker 1: Or is this system going to be exhausted? And and
Speaker 1: I will have paid into this thing and you've gotten
Speaker 1: nothing in return. I think with that recent news about
Speaker 1: the Social Security Trust Fund shortfalls happening even sooner than expected, um,
Speaker 1: it can feel like younger folks are unlikely to see much,
Speaker 1: if anything, um. And some people have like written it
Speaker 1: off all together. But yeah, you know, you and I, Matt,
Speaker 1: we don't think that's the case. And we will try
Speaker 1: to give an accurate picture of what's happening with scal
Speaker 1: security and how much stock you should put in it
Speaker 1: for your future in this episode. That's right. Yeah, So
Speaker 1: let's talk first about why that shortfall is happening. You
Speaker 1: mentioned that there have been a lot of stories on
Speaker 1: social security recently, and so as you know, our listeners
Speaker 1: likely know social Security tax. It's withheld from every paycheck
Speaker 1: that you receive. Uh. And when millions of folks lost
Speaker 1: their jobs early in the pandemic last year, far fewer
Speaker 1: folks they were paying into the Social Security system. And
Speaker 1: so when there's fewer workers paying in the than previously assumed,
Speaker 1: and that money was still being paid out to the
Speaker 1: current retirees, that's what leads to a shortfall. And so
Speaker 1: the Social Security Trustees released their annual report at the
Speaker 1: end of last month, and they warned that social security
Speaker 1: reserves we're going to run out of money one year
Speaker 1: earlier than expected. So that's going to happen now in
Speaker 1: three is the forecast. We'll dive more into the details
Speaker 1: later on, but generally speaking, that's what's going on here, uh.
Speaker 1: And that's a part of why we wanted to tackle
Speaker 1: this topic of social security, especially since it's not one
Speaker 1: that we've covered yet here on the show. In depth. Uh,
Speaker 1: And so for our listeners, like, the question we want
Speaker 1: to answer is, you know, is this something that we
Speaker 1: should be worried about? You know, given that new report,
Speaker 1: can we count all social Security still being there by
Speaker 1: the time we are looking to retire. That's what we're
Speaker 1: gonna talk about today. So let's go ahead and dive in. Yeah. Well,
Speaker 1: first man, I think we do need to get to
Speaker 1: the history of social Security, why it was created, when
Speaker 1: it was created, and kind of the purpose behind it,
Speaker 1: because I think sometimes even just kind of the perception
Speaker 1: about what social security should be for individuals has morphed
Speaker 1: over time, and we kind of expect it to be
Speaker 1: this and I'll be all retirement account for everyone that
Speaker 1: provides for most of their needs. But that wasn't the
Speaker 1: goal early on when social Security was created. It wasn't
Speaker 1: intended to fund a person's retirement completely. And in fact,
Speaker 1: the average American didn't live long enough to reach retirement age.
Speaker 1: Lifespans have dramatically lengthened over the past hundred years. We
Speaker 1: went from an average lifespan of fifty three to an
Speaker 1: average of seventy eight years old over one hundred years. Yeah,
Speaker 1: that's it's I mean, it's hard to have them significant, right.
Speaker 1: It really is the the original intent of the program.
Speaker 1: It wasn't to make sure that you were able to
Speaker 1: continue to live life like you had when you were working.
Speaker 1: It was more akin to an insurance policy, making sure
Speaker 1: that you weren't destitute if you did end up living
Speaker 1: an abnormally long life. And I think this context is
Speaker 1: important so we can have a proper view of what
Speaker 1: the social security system is meant to do. It was
Speaker 1: never meant to allow us to retire in style for
Speaker 1: we like thirty years at the beach, uh in order
Speaker 1: to you know, live a swell life for decades on
Speaker 1: end um. It really really was meant to provide for
Speaker 1: you for a few years if you did outlive the
Speaker 1: median age. And I just think that's helpful contexts, you know,
Speaker 1: as we get into talking about social security in this episode, Yeah,
Speaker 1: if they you mentioned if you were to ever have
Speaker 1: lived in the normally long life, and so when the
Speaker 1: life expectancy is fifty three, I guess if you live
Speaker 1: to be like fifty eight, Like it's like, well I've
Speaker 1: got an old time where over here. But let's keep
Speaker 1: talking about the history, you know, Like they're there truly
Speaker 1: were a lot of changes happening rapidly in the early
Speaker 1: nineteen hundreds that were impacting the way that we viewed retirements, employments,
Speaker 1: and government involvement in both of those as well, and
Speaker 1: so like. At that time, the prevailing thought was that
Speaker 1: retirement was similar to kind of like a three legged stool.
Speaker 1: Pensions they were at the heart of this. Basically, employees
Speaker 1: were guaranteed a percentage of their paycheck if they stayed
Speaker 1: with the company for you know, a number of years,
Speaker 1: for decades, even personal savings that was another leg of
Speaker 1: that retirement stool, and then social security that was that
Speaker 1: third leg. Uh, and it has been an important leg,
Speaker 1: you know, to to ensure that retirees, especially once who
Speaker 1: were able to save very little, or who who didn't
Speaker 1: work for employers that offered pensions and made sure that
Speaker 1: they had at least something to live on once they
Speaker 1: finished working. Yeah, so social security has been just this
Speaker 1: really important part of our country social safety now. But
Speaker 1: the traditional approach to retirement, Matt, that you just mentioned,
Speaker 1: that three legged stool approach, it's just not really relevant
Speaker 1: for most people today. We don't live in under system
Speaker 1: in which people can expect you know, forms of income
Speaker 1: from all three of those sources. Pensions obviously, especially pensions
Speaker 1: becoming more rare, right, um, it's maybe as rare as
Speaker 1: like um, like a toilet paper sighting last March or
Speaker 1: something like that, as rare as a an affordable to
Speaker 1: one starter home today's housing marketing, exactly exactly. You know,
Speaker 1: we might have a few listeners who work in the government,
Speaker 1: who work as teachers, and they still have access to
Speaker 1: a pension. More power to you, right, Pensions are really
Speaker 1: really helpful when it comes to planning for your own retirement.
Speaker 1: It provides a whole lot more certainty. But of course
Speaker 1: that's becoming rarer. That that makes that social security money
Speaker 1: even more important for a whole lot of workers today.
Speaker 1: And we would say at the same time, it heightens
Speaker 1: the need for you to say for your own retirement
Speaker 1: more effectively, to begin sooner, and to say more maybe
Speaker 1: than you previously thought, because the dynamics have shift quite
Speaker 1: a bit, and you just can't expect that anybody else
Speaker 1: is really going to take care of you in retirement,
Speaker 1: even though we do believe social security will stick around
Speaker 1: in some form or fashion. That's right, Maybe there's a
Speaker 1: fourth leg to that stool as well. We we talked
Speaker 1: about savings, pensions, social security, but family. I mean, think
Speaker 1: about the number of multigenerational households that that used to exist,
Speaker 1: as as older parents went in to live with their
Speaker 1: kids who were grown up. And that's definitely true, right,
Speaker 1: But it's also not something you want to play on
Speaker 1: and just assume that your kids are gonna house you.
Speaker 1: Expectations have changed, right, And so when the expectations are there,
Speaker 1: or when that's something that has at least been talked
Speaker 1: about them, that's totally fine. But I would say that
Speaker 1: that's not typical today. It's probably as typical as pensions are,
Speaker 1: to be honest, it often does come down more to
Speaker 1: the individual. But before we kind of keep talking about, uh,
Speaker 1: social security, let's kind of ask the question, is retirement
Speaker 1: even a good goal for us to have? You know,
Speaker 1: I just mentioned how the perception started to shift in
Speaker 1: the early nineteen hundreds. Before then, like almost everyone worked
Speaker 1: until they died, right the the idea that you could
Speaker 1: have years or even decades of leisure in your old
Speaker 1: age was kind of reserved only for just a handful
Speaker 1: of rich folks, the landed gentry, or something like that
Speaker 1: right was reserved for like the biltmore or the people
Speaker 1: in what was that what's that show that you used
Speaker 1: to watch that? Oh downtown to Nabby Right, yeah, those
Speaker 1: people you have to Yeah, the aristocracy that he's living
Speaker 1: off the land exactly, and forget about fire right, Like
Speaker 1: retiring in your thirties, Like, I mean, that would have
Speaker 1: been considered a joke a hundred years ago. And so like,
Speaker 1: we're big fans of working towards the goal of financial independence. Um.
Speaker 1: And even though we talk about it much less frequently,
Speaker 1: saving and investing for retirement is certainly worthwhile goal, even
Speaker 1: though it's a it's kind of a newish concept. With
Speaker 1: the likelihood that you will be living into your eighties
Speaker 1: or even your nineties, there's no other option. You've got
Speaker 1: to save for your retirement. Uh. And so that's why
Speaker 1: we're talking about this today. It's also good point out
Speaker 1: too that like making sure that you have enough money
Speaker 1: saved for retirement, that shouldn't be your soul folk gus
Speaker 1: of of what you think is going to lead to uh,
Speaker 1: happier overall life. There are obviously lots of other factors
Speaker 1: that you want to keep in mind as you're trying
Speaker 1: to live a happy life. Foremost among those fulfilling social
Speaker 1: relationships having Oh I thought you were gonna say good beer,
Speaker 1: good beer. Is it's probably like second, it's like relationships, beer, family,
Speaker 1: and beer. And then money. Actually, shoot, you gotta have
Speaker 1: money in order to have decent beer. So but I'm
Speaker 1: just pointing that out. This is how the money. So
Speaker 1: we're we're specifically talking about how your finances can lead
Speaker 1: to you living a happy life. But don't forget that
Speaker 1: there are lots of other things that you need to
Speaker 1: keep in mind as well. And we're focusing mostly on
Speaker 1: social security today. I think you're right, Matt, to just
Speaker 1: bring up that topic of retirement in general. It's still
Speaker 1: a relatively new concept. Um. It wasn't something that people
Speaker 1: in the seventeen hundreds or eighteen hundreds aspired to. It
Speaker 1: is something that is only a few generations old, and
Speaker 1: so um. Yeah. But but let's keep talking about social security.
Speaker 1: Is it something you can count on or is it,
Speaker 1: as some have called a pyramid scheme that you've been
Speaker 1: paying into that's going to crumble potentially even in the
Speaker 1: near future. We'll get two more on that right after this. Alright,
Speaker 1: we're back until you know you referred to like the
Speaker 1: pyramid scheme. I'm pretty sure I've referred to it as
Speaker 1: a pyramid scheme before. How social Security? Oh, it's like
Speaker 1: this mandatory pyramid scheme that we all have to pay into.
Speaker 1: We're required to otherwise we get in trouble, you know,
Speaker 1: with the Canada or something. I think, Yeah, what happens
Speaker 1: if you don't? I guess that's evading taxes. But so
Speaker 1: let's go ahead, get to the question, can you count
Speaker 1: on Social Security being there at least in some capacity
Speaker 1: when you reach retirement age? And we think that the
Speaker 1: answer to that is a definitive yes. We're not worried
Speaker 1: that three will come along and that the benefits will
Speaker 1: be dramatically cut or that money won't be there to
Speaker 1: pay the older Americans who have been paying into this
Speaker 1: system for decades. But that being said, that doesn't mean
Speaker 1: that Social Security will exist uh in its current form,
Speaker 1: or that some hard choices aren't inevitable. We do think
Speaker 1: that they're probably going to be some changes on the horizon,
Speaker 1: and we'll get to those here in a second. Yeah,
Speaker 1: And it's our assessment is not just because we're natural optimists.
Speaker 1: Matt I don't even know. Are you naturally optimistic? I
Speaker 1: would say you are. I would say that you are
Speaker 1: more of an optimist. I'm definitely more of like the
Speaker 1: realists for anyone to be more of an optimist than
Speaker 1: I am, but I feel like, I mean, long term,
Speaker 1: I'm like, everything will be fine, But that doesn't necessarily
Speaker 1: mean that everything is going to on the service look good.
Speaker 1: Like my mindset is that everything's gonna be fine because
Speaker 1: we will adjust regardless of what comes down the pike.
Speaker 1: You know what I'm saying, Uh, not that like, oh,
Speaker 1: everything is gonna be you know, rainbows and butterfly do well.
Speaker 1: And that's the thing. It's not. You know, when we're
Speaker 1: saying that social security will exist and that will be
Speaker 1: beneficial for you in retirement. This isn't just some wide
Speaker 1: eyed optimism, but there are a lot of facts on
Speaker 1: the ground to support, uh, the reality that social security
Speaker 1: will continue to exist and what you're paying into it
Speaker 1: you will get back at some future date. And let's
Speaker 1: talk about politics for just a second. Usually we avoid
Speaker 1: the subject, but when you're talking about social security, it's
Speaker 1: a necessary part of the discussion, and before you even start,
Speaker 1: it's worth mentioning we're not gonna like take a sigh
Speaker 1: like say the other Like we can talk about it
Speaker 1: from a political standpoint, but we can talk about it
Speaker 1: a political exactly a little bit exactly. We we really
Speaker 1: believe though, that at some point there is going to
Speaker 1: be there must be enough political will and desire to
Speaker 1: fix this, you know, at some point someday, like we
Speaker 1: don't even we don't know when that's gonna be. Uh.
Speaker 1: And you know, in politics, it turns out that politicians
Speaker 1: like to kick the can down the road and they
Speaker 1: like to let someone else tackle the bigger, most unpopular
Speaker 1: problems that cost money. Uh. The question, though, I don't
Speaker 1: think is if it's gonna happen, but when? And Yeah,
Speaker 1: we talked to a front of the show Matt and
Speaker 1: Top Tier money writer Ben Carlson about this a while
Speaker 1: back on the show. They're just almost no politicians who
Speaker 1: want to be responsible for ending a program as popular
Speaker 1: as Social Security has been. Like, think about the grief
Speaker 1: and the lack of votes that politician is going to
Speaker 1: receive when they start to condemn Social Security or talk
Speaker 1: about eliminating it or watching it phase out slowly, Right,
Speaker 1: And it's a program that has become necessary for so
Speaker 1: many people. So I think when you look at it
Speaker 1: from that angle, there's basically next to no chance that
Speaker 1: Social Security doesn't continue to remain around and that an
Speaker 1: eventual fix for the shortfalls that we're seeing doesn't come
Speaker 1: to fruition at some point exactly. Yeah, regardless of what
Speaker 1: side of the aisle that you're on, very few folks
Speaker 1: are going to just let it implode upon itself without
Speaker 1: having making without having made some sort of change, if
Speaker 1: they're being forced to, right and right now, we're not
Speaker 1: really being forced to. And that's I think that's a
Speaker 1: big reason why we're not necessarily going to see uh
Speaker 1: see it addressed in the coming years. But I don't know.
Speaker 1: I bet it will be addressed by and you know,
Speaker 1: part of the reason too that we believe that Social
Speaker 1: Security is going to be around is it comes down
Speaker 1: to the fact that this isn't a government giveaway, right
Speaker 1: we all pay into the system. I'm sure there's probably
Speaker 1: a lot of how the money listeners who wish that
Speaker 1: they could opt out of Social Security and you know,
Speaker 1: instead fund their own retirement more heavily with that additional
Speaker 1: chunk that you get in your paycheck. I get it.
Speaker 1: I would probably sign up for that if I could
Speaker 1: as well. Actually, in ministers, like if if you're in
Speaker 1: a certain religion, you can like fill out this form,
Speaker 1: you can be like a conscientious social security objective exactly. Yeah.
Speaker 1: But if you were to do that, and if you
Speaker 1: are some type of minister, make sure that you truly
Speaker 1: are saving for retirement because there is no social Security
Speaker 1: for you. Yeah, you better be extra money away if
Speaker 1: you're fall into that camp. But the fact is, this
Speaker 1: is the system that we currently have in place, and
Speaker 1: it has worked remarkably well for a lot of years. Uh,
Speaker 1: And so because that it's highly unlikely that it's going
Speaker 1: to change anytime soon. But the fact that every working
Speaker 1: American is currently funding Social Security on the rag with
Speaker 1: every single paycheck, that means that Social Security uh isn't
Speaker 1: about to go bankrupt quote unquote bankrupt, as you might
Speaker 1: have heard in the headlines. Yeah, that's a term that
Speaker 1: is thrown around, especially, has been thrown around in recent days,
Speaker 1: and it's misleading because it's just not true in the
Speaker 1: way most people think about the term bankrupt. They just
Speaker 1: assume like the dis of the entire system. Yeah, well
Speaker 1: that's the end of that, like you're a goner. But
Speaker 1: that's not the way it is with Social Security. That
Speaker 1: trust fund is on the ropes. Maybe to use like
Speaker 1: a fighting analogy, and we might need like a little
Speaker 1: break between rounds to get that pep talk and that
Speaker 1: little water squirt or something like that. But does this work.
Speaker 1: Does work as an analogy, I don't know. Given it
Speaker 1: a shot, but it doesn't mean that it's like you know,
Speaker 1: been kote and it's it's out for the count. Yeah. Yeah,
Speaker 1: we're slowly seeing I mean the funds getting depleted. Honestly,
Speaker 1: all I can picture now is like a boxer's trainer,
Speaker 1: like over on the side, just with like a water gun,
Speaker 1: just like squirting him like like you're you're talking about
Speaker 1: like a sports bottle. I'm taking of the movie Rocky
Speaker 1: and you know you wentn't squirting them with anything, but
Speaker 1: you get a little skirt bottle and you get some
Speaker 1: you get some steps. It would be like a sponge
Speaker 1: or a rag. That's all I can think of right
Speaker 1: now is Mike Tyson's Knockout, which was one of the
Speaker 1: greatest video games all the time. It was pretty close.
Speaker 1: But let's talk about some of the changes, Matt, and like,
Speaker 1: you know, since almost six inten retirees actually find that
Speaker 1: their main source of income in retirement is Social Security,
Speaker 1: something is going to have to give. Like we said
Speaker 1: at the beginning, this wasn't the intent of Social Security,
Speaker 1: but that is where we have found ourselves as this
Speaker 1: becoming essentially the main retirement program, the main source of
Speaker 1: income for so many Americans. There was a bill that
Speaker 1: gradually changed the retirement age from sixty five to sixty seven.
Speaker 1: You know, we we could see something else similar happen
Speaker 1: in the future, changing the date at which you're able
Speaker 1: to receive your full Social Security benefit, pushing it back
Speaker 1: just a little bit to increase the solvency. But but
Speaker 1: we're more likely to see something I would say, like
Speaker 1: uh fke attacks increase that slowly goes up over the decades,
Speaker 1: something like a point one percent increase each year, so
Speaker 1: that we basically barely feel it in any meaningful way,
Speaker 1: but it does slowly start to make up for some
Speaker 1: of the shortfalls that we're seeing. Um. There's also been
Speaker 1: talking about, you know, raising the income cap for paying
Speaker 1: payroll taxes. So right now, if you're a high income earner,
Speaker 1: you stop paying fight attacks on any dollar that you
Speaker 1: earn above eight dred and if they were to raise
Speaker 1: that cap, that would be another possible tweak to provide
Speaker 1: you know, more funds for the Social Security Trust Fund
Speaker 1: so that you know, we don't run out of money
Speaker 1: quite so quickly. That's right. Personally, I'm a fan of
Speaker 1: increasing that age because we talked about earlier how life
Speaker 1: expectancies have increased dramatically even over the past, you know,
Speaker 1: even since like n three, we've seen the life expectancy increase.
Speaker 1: And so I think if I were picking the solution,
Speaker 1: that's the one I would pick as well. But it's
Speaker 1: also a few taxes, the most unlikely one because people
Speaker 1: don't want to be like, dang it, I've been paying
Speaker 1: into this and now you're telling me I gonna wait
Speaker 1: two more years, Like most people don't want to hear that. Well,
Speaker 1: I think that it is probably the best. Yeah, well,
Speaker 1: we see it happened gradually as well, and so that's
Speaker 1: why I mean, most of our listeners probably aren't looking
Speaker 1: at the charts. But it's like, okay, you have to
Speaker 1: work until you're sixty six years old plus two months,
Speaker 1: you know, like like it's it's this gradual thing. And
Speaker 1: so instead of saying, oh, we have to delay retirement
Speaker 1: by two years, it's like, well I can, I can
Speaker 1: go for another two months. Makes it a lot more
Speaker 1: palatable where that to be the case. And so, like
Speaker 1: you're saying, Angel, whether it's revenue increases or benefit cuts
Speaker 1: were actually just a bit of both. That's probably what
Speaker 1: we're likely to see in the coming years. Who knows
Speaker 1: what will actually happen, but we know that no solution
Speaker 1: is ideal. Very few folks want to see benefits reduced.
Speaker 1: Nobody wants to be forced to pay more into the
Speaker 1: system either. But when you look at the context of
Speaker 1: social security, you realize that it wasn't built to be
Speaker 1: the soul safety net for multiple non working not just years,
Speaker 1: but decades. Uh. And that's what it's become. That's what
Speaker 1: it's evolved into. And it's just not sustainable for us
Speaker 1: to continue to to lean onto social security this way.
Speaker 1: That's right, Yeah, And so we believe that social Security
Speaker 1: it's not going anywhere. We talked about the news that's
Speaker 1: come out of the trust Fund running out of money
Speaker 1: in just twelve years, and it's true, right the that
Speaker 1: trust Fund is going to run dry twelve years from
Speaker 1: now if nothing is done. But there's just so much
Speaker 1: more to it than that. Like, current projections show that
Speaker 1: there will be enough money to cover three quarters of
Speaker 1: retiree benefits through the year even if nothing was done.
Speaker 1: That's because, like Matt said earlier on every page check,
Speaker 1: tens of millions of Americans are actively funding the system.
Speaker 1: You're continuing to pay into it every two weeks. So
Speaker 1: even if nothing was done, that benefit cut would mean
Speaker 1: less money per person, But that's a really, really long
Speaker 1: time frame. At the fact that through like it's still
Speaker 1: sustainable just at lower levels. Um it just that'll cover us. Yeah,
Speaker 1: find reading that and knowing that it just made me
Speaker 1: realize that Social Security is definitely gonna be around for
Speaker 1: the long haul. Something is going to get done to
Speaker 1: resolve the shortfalls that we're currently seeing. But even if
Speaker 1: we do nothing, it's not as dire as so many
Speaker 1: of those headlines and warnings make it sound. Exactly Basically,
Speaker 1: only if somebody comes in and makes it worse will
Speaker 1: we not be able to see our Social Security pay
Speaker 1: it out before we die. And so Okay, you're probably
Speaker 1: listening to this and you're wondering, Okay, well, how do
Speaker 1: I know where I stand when it comes to like
Speaker 1: my own social security. Here's what we would recommend for
Speaker 1: you to do, especially if you're a younger listener, log
Speaker 1: into my Social Security at s s A Gov and
Speaker 1: you can get a really good idea of what your
Speaker 1: current likely social Security benefits are going to be based
Speaker 1: on your work history, based based on your taxable wages,
Speaker 1: and you can factor in what you're likely income is
Speaker 1: going to be as well, and you can see the
Speaker 1: difference in what you're likely to get based on when
Speaker 1: you opt to take those benefits. So, for instance, sixty
Speaker 1: two versus full retirement age versus you know, pushing that
Speaker 1: back even further to to the age of seventy. And
Speaker 1: so as you look at those numbers, know that there's
Speaker 1: this you know, there's still a chance that those projections
Speaker 1: will actually be accurate for you, depending on how close
Speaker 1: you are to retirement. But we do suggest planning on
Speaker 1: having you know, only seventy five per cent of that
Speaker 1: projection as retirement income instead of counting on that entire amount.
Speaker 1: You know, if you're listening to this, the chances of
Speaker 1: you getting seventy of the forecasted social Security I mean
Speaker 1: there's a very very high chance of you at least
Speaker 1: getting seventy percent of it. Beyond that, I don't know.
Speaker 1: I would just consider depend gravy essentially if you get
Speaker 1: beyond that. But exactly factoring in four retirement spending needs
Speaker 1: how many five percent of what is projected when you
Speaker 1: log in, it's probably the best rule of thumb for
Speaker 1: everyone to consider. It's a safe bet, especially younger listeners. Yeah,
Speaker 1: because you don't want to you know, these are these
Speaker 1: are eggs that you don't want to necessarily count before
Speaker 1: they hatch. And so that's one thing that you can
Speaker 1: do now. And we'll actually talk more about what to
Speaker 1: do and how to think about the role of social
Speaker 1: security when it comes to your retirement, and we'll get
Speaker 1: to that right after this Alart, we're back. We're talking
Speaker 1: about the most stimulating topic in the world today on
Speaker 1: how money social security, and most folks would probably say, like,
Speaker 1: I hope there are folks who did not skip this
Speaker 1: episode because they're like, oh my gosh, they're talking about
Speaker 1: social security. But social security it's exciting, Like I'm seriously
Speaker 1: super stoke that we're talking about social security and we
Speaker 1: you know, try to make all these money topics sound
Speaker 1: as sexy as we possibly can because we find them interesting.
Speaker 1: And I think you know, there is there's just a
Speaker 1: general curiosity that you and I have about all things money,
Speaker 1: and so hopefully that comes across to when we're sharing
Speaker 1: about these topics. It's like something that we have, uh
Speaker 1: found compelling enough to wrap up into podcast form to
Speaker 1: bring to you, even if it seems on its surface
Speaker 1: like it's a wonky, nerdy conversation right well, and and
Speaker 1: and especially to when it seems so far off. I mean,
Speaker 1: you're kind of talking about climate change at the beginning
Speaker 1: of the episode, like it almost makes me think of
Speaker 1: like losing your hair, like going bald. Like when you're younger,
Speaker 1: you think that's that's for tomorrow. Me you think about,
Speaker 1: like I'm not worried about losing my hair right now,
Speaker 1: but the older you get, you're kind of like, all right,
Speaker 1: maybe it's start, you know, it's tarting to start thinking
Speaker 1: about like if I'm losing my hair or wearing the
Speaker 1: ball cap more, or maybe like there's like gels or
Speaker 1: creams that you can buy, or maybe you can like
Speaker 1: go the all natural routes and maybe like alter your
Speaker 1: diet or like shave it off. But so much of
Speaker 1: it comes down to genetics, and so because of that,
Speaker 1: there's there's so little of it that we can directly control.
Speaker 1: But there are other things that we can do. Like
Speaker 1: you said, you like either shave it or wear a
Speaker 1: ball cap. But even if this isn't something that you're
Speaker 1: directly dealing with now, I think a lot of our
Speaker 1: listeners are probably nowhere near retirement age, we still think
Speaker 1: that it's something good to be thinking about, to be
Speaker 1: proactively planning towards. And that's actually what we're gonna talk
Speaker 1: about next, no doubt. So let's talk about practical steps here.
Speaker 1: You know, we have been talking about what's happening with
Speaker 1: social security in general, and you know, we believe there's
Speaker 1: no way that you're not going to see at least
Speaker 1: a good portion of what you've been promised in the future.
Speaker 1: But what should you do and how should you think
Speaker 1: about social security? Because we don't want you thinking about
Speaker 1: it a whole lot because it's mostly out of your control.
Speaker 1: But there are still a few things you should consider
Speaker 1: and a few things you should do. One of the
Speaker 1: best ways, Matt, for our listeners to ensure that they're
Speaker 1: getting more money when it comes to their monthly check
Speaker 1: from Social Security someday in the future, is to delay
Speaker 1: the time in which they take Social Security. You mentioned
Speaker 1: the different amounts that you're going to see on my
Speaker 1: Social Security on that website, and it's crazy how much
Speaker 1: different the amount of that monthly check is if you
Speaker 1: take it at sixty two versus if you wait to
Speaker 1: take it at age seventy. UM. As you reach for
Speaker 1: roman age. The longer that you wait, the more you're
Speaker 1: gonna the fat of the check is going to be.
Speaker 1: And so taking Social Security at a later date. It's
Speaker 1: not best for every single person, but it is good
Speaker 1: advice for most people. Right. There are important factors to consider,
Speaker 1: including how healthy you are, um, but for most folks,
Speaker 1: it's best to wait longer in order to maximize that check.
Speaker 1: That's one thing that everybody can do that the power
Speaker 1: is in your hands to wait and take Social Security
Speaker 1: until a later date. That just means a bigger paycheck
Speaker 1: every single month for decades to come, hopefully, that's right. Yeah,
Speaker 1: And that often means working longer, working into your later
Speaker 1: years as well. Uh. And the great thing is that
Speaker 1: many jobs actually can be done into your later years.
Speaker 1: That wasn't nearly as much the case a hundred years ago,
Speaker 1: and hopefully you can even kind of phase out of
Speaker 1: the workforce over time. Like it doesn't have to be
Speaker 1: all or nothing. You know, you don't have to go
Speaker 1: from working fifty five hours a week to just kicking
Speaker 1: back and sitting on your rocker at home, or or
Speaker 1: being at the beach full time, or your rocker at
Speaker 1: the local cracker barrel playing checkers, which is, you know,
Speaker 1: another fine choice in retirement. Uh So, I mean I
Speaker 1: wanted to mention that because plenty to work, you know,
Speaker 1: at least some as you get closer to retirement, age
Speaker 1: is going to help your finances, and it provides a
Speaker 1: lot of other intangible benefits as well. Oftentimes it gives
Speaker 1: you some of that additional purpose in your life exactly.
Speaker 1: And I think you're right, Matt. It's so much easier
Speaker 1: to work longer than it ever was before because we
Speaker 1: are staying healthier into our later years too, and work
Speaker 1: has gotten for many people less labor intensive. It's also
Speaker 1: helpful to get creative when it comes to what work
Speaker 1: looks like for you as you age. There was just
Speaker 1: a story mat in the l A Times actually recently
Speaker 1: about grand fluencers. Have you heard about this trend? I
Speaker 1: have not, Okay, so it's fascinating. Becoming a social media
Speaker 1: influencer apparently isn't just for the incredibly young anymore, but
Speaker 1: it's also for folks who are in their seventies and
Speaker 1: eighties and they're starting to make some side hustle income
Speaker 1: by being on TikTok and Instagram. They're giving maybe like
Speaker 1: beauty tips or doing gardening videos, and yeah, they're making
Speaker 1: real money on the side by taking these videos on
Speaker 1: their iPhone or whatever and uploading them and developing the following.
Speaker 1: So I think there's just nothing that says that you
Speaker 1: have to work for the same employer or even in
Speaker 1: the same industry. So yeah, when people are thinking, okay,
Speaker 1: you know, working longer, that's not necessarily what I wanted
Speaker 1: to hear. What doesn't mean doing the same work that
Speaker 1: you've been doing. There's so many options for you to
Speaker 1: slide over into doing something else, and it might not
Speaker 1: pay as much as the job that you were doing was,
Speaker 1: but it will maybe be less hours and more fulfilling
Speaker 1: provide some of that side income that's necessary to help
Speaker 1: you delay taking Social Security, which obviously provides just major
Speaker 1: financial returns that the longer you wait, that's right. And
Speaker 1: of course, another way to make sure that you have
Speaker 1: enough money set aside for retirement in addition to any
Speaker 1: social security funds that you might receive, is to make
Speaker 1: sure that you are investing independently, you know, on your
Speaker 1: own UH. And also to consider increasing how much money
Speaker 1: that you're sacking away because increasing but you put into
Speaker 1: your pH owne K by a minimum, let's just say,
Speaker 1: of like one percent every year. That's just a good
Speaker 1: goal to have. As you are able to ramp up
Speaker 1: your savings, just put it on autopilot so you don't
Speaker 1: even have to think about it. You can also automate
Speaker 1: your contributions to a roth IRA. That's another way to
Speaker 1: to d I Y it and to build up a
Speaker 1: substantial nest egg. Personal savings have always been a part
Speaker 1: of the UH, you know, the multi legged retirement income stool.
Speaker 1: But the actions that you take now, they're going to
Speaker 1: have an enormous impact on how comfortable that you'll be
Speaker 1: when you do get to that point that you no
Speaker 1: longer want to work, or when you're at the point
Speaker 1: to where you're no longer able to work. Anymore. I
Speaker 1: think that's a really important point to Matt in this
Speaker 1: discussion is sometimes we're planning for the future that we're
Speaker 1: hoping for and not uh for some of the potential downsides.
Speaker 1: You might actually have the desire to work until you're eighty,
Speaker 1: but economic or health circumstances could actually prevent that could
Speaker 1: prevent you doing so. So we would say just another
Speaker 1: important caveat to that is to not plan for your
Speaker 1: retirement under just best case scenarios. You realize that you
Speaker 1: might not be able to work as long as you
Speaker 1: hoped as long as you hoped to. It's it's possible
Speaker 1: to save and invest too much and not enjoy some
Speaker 1: of the fruits of your labor. Now we try to
Speaker 1: talk about that on the show, you know, enjoying your
Speaker 1: money while you still can while you're young, and not
Speaker 1: stocking everything away for the future. But there aren't, Matt,
Speaker 1: really that many folks that fall into that camp. We
Speaker 1: certainly do want to prevent over saving, over investing, just
Speaker 1: thinking about the future and only the future, not living
Speaker 1: in the presence. But yeah, putting more money in those
Speaker 1: tax advantage retirement accounts is the real answer to planning
Speaker 1: for a future that will likely include smaller social Security
Speaker 1: benefits or maybe even that inability to work even if
Speaker 1: you want to. That's right, and as we look ahead,
Speaker 1: it's important to remember that the specifics regarding social security
Speaker 1: are completely subject to change. Right as we mentioned earlier, Uh,
Speaker 1: there will have to be some concessions to keep social
Speaker 1: security afloat for the next generation, but no one can
Speaker 1: be sure what those adjustments will actually look like and
Speaker 1: how they will affect the benefits that you are likely
Speaker 1: to receive in the future. We've basically kind of got
Speaker 1: to do our best while flying somewhat blind here. We're
Speaker 1: kind of in the fog, and so plan on social
Speaker 1: Security being there for you, but don't just blindly plan
Speaker 1: on receiving the full amount uh that it says when
Speaker 1: you log into my social Security. If it tells you, hey,
Speaker 1: you're gonna be receiving you know, three grand a month,
Speaker 1: it's like, well, maybe you should only count on yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: And I think this is just another reason that you know,
Speaker 1: what you said, Matt about investing independently is so important.
Speaker 1: Of course, you want to make sure that you have
Speaker 1: enough stocked a way to pay the bills that you're
Speaker 1: gonna have in retirement. Right. That's the practical numbers and
Speaker 1: accounting side of the equation. But don't forget about the
Speaker 1: emotional security that comes with knowing that you're going to
Speaker 1: have more than enough set aside for yourself. You know. Unfortunately,
Speaker 1: those who are more dependent on Social Security for their
Speaker 1: retirement are likely going to be experiencing more of an
Speaker 1: emotional roller coaster in the coming years. As you know,
Speaker 1: changes to benefits are made. If you're waiting to see
Speaker 1: what the cost of adjustment is going to be and
Speaker 1: whether it's going to be enough to counteract the inflation
Speaker 1: that you're seeing in your life, that's a tough situation
Speaker 1: to be in, UH, to have that as your primary
Speaker 1: main source of retirement income. So it's important to develop
Speaker 1: that your own three legged stool. You are more in
Speaker 1: charge of that than ever before. UH, and social Security
Speaker 1: can be an important part of that. But if that
Speaker 1: is the main part of that, that's what we would say,
Speaker 1: you've got to take some more action and make sure
Speaker 1: that you're doing even more right now to prepare for
Speaker 1: that eventual retirement date. Yeah, that's right. We don't want
Speaker 1: our listeners, especially to to be jerked around by the
Speaker 1: changing laws. We want you to have as much agency
Speaker 1: when it comes to your retirement as possible. And so yeah,
Speaker 1: so this is why we're again we're huge fans. Have
Speaker 1: you taken the reins of your own financial future, because
Speaker 1: social Security it's going to be there in some form
Speaker 1: and it'll be a helpful benefits in retirement. But social
Speaker 1: Security should be a supplement to your retirement spending. Don't
Speaker 1: paint on it being your your main source of income. Uh,
Speaker 1: And would be particularly excellent if you're able to save
Speaker 1: and invest in such a way that the Social Security
Speaker 1: money that you receive some day truly is it's just
Speaker 1: like the cherry on top. It's just like you said
Speaker 1: Joel earlier, it's just the gravy. It's extra because something
Speaker 1: will need to be done at some point to address
Speaker 1: the issues with social security, and it'll be truly interesting
Speaker 1: to see when the political will to make these adjustments
Speaker 1: will actually come along. But we just want our listeners
Speaker 1: to know that likely you are going to be okay,
Speaker 1: You're likely going to receive a very large chunk of
Speaker 1: what it's forecasting, especially if you are an older listener.
Speaker 1: The closer you are to retirement, the less likely it
Speaker 1: is that you're going to be affected by any of
Speaker 1: these changes that might be coming down the pike. All right, Matt,
Speaker 1: do we do it? Do we make Social Security not boring?
Speaker 1: Do we? Uh? Okay, hopefully we've provided some good information
Speaker 1: there and hopefully more than anything, it was just a
Speaker 1: little bit reassuring and sometimes having that information on hand,
Speaker 1: I know it made me feel better. Like when I
Speaker 1: read that stat about twenty nine being the date that
Speaker 1: would say at a reduced benefit level, I was like,
Speaker 1: oh my gosh, that's a really really long time. Anybody
Speaker 1: who's listening right now is going to be fine. You're
Speaker 1: at least, like, yeah, like you said, you're at least
Speaker 1: going to receive semi five percent of your benefit. And
Speaker 1: that's assuming that no changes are made. And I think
Speaker 1: there's a good chance that changes are going to be made.
Speaker 1: And if you're in your twenties and you're really really
Speaker 1: concerned about your great grandkids, well then I don't I
Speaker 1: can't offer anything super helpful for that worry. But yeah,
Speaker 1: for for most of us who are alive right now,
Speaker 1: there there is a lot of hope. I think given
Speaker 1: some of these numbers. Plus right, let's get back to
Speaker 1: the beer that we had on today's show, Matt. This
Speaker 1: one's called Roosevelt Coffee Stout. It's by Old Tangy River Brewing.
Speaker 1: Listener Scott sent this one our way. Yeah, what were
Speaker 1: your thoughts on this beer? That's right? Yeah, this is
Speaker 1: the second Old Entangy beer that we've had. Uh, And
Speaker 1: I think the one word that I'll use to describe
Speaker 1: this beer is super smooth. I guess that's two words smooth.
Speaker 1: I was like, was that hyphens It's like milk chocolate almost,
Speaker 1: you know, like there are some coffee stouts that we
Speaker 1: get or just bigger Russian Imperial stops where it's just
Speaker 1: like me and they're like, there are tons of roasted
Speaker 1: cocoa nibs. There are a lot of some of those
Speaker 1: bigger smokier flavors. Not this one. Man. This was just
Speaker 1: really smooth, really easy to drink. It had those nice
Speaker 1: subtle coffee notes. Uh, definitely kind of like a light
Speaker 1: to medium roast, uh, not a medium to dark roast
Speaker 1: where you would pick up those super roasty notes. I
Speaker 1: don't feel that they had that going on, and it
Speaker 1: made this a really drinkable beer. What are your thoughts? Yeah? Man,
Speaker 1: it takes it like a milk chocolate Hershey's bar with okay,
Speaker 1: just a little bit of coffee thrown in there, So
Speaker 1: I think we're picking up the same vibe it was.
Speaker 1: It was smooth, it was a little bit sweet, not
Speaker 1: overly sweet, and it as you know, we're in the
Speaker 1: fall now fall time, it's kind of nice to have
Speaker 1: a nice stout again because I feel like summer no
Speaker 1: stouts for me, but yeah, drinking occasionally, but when the
Speaker 1: fall rolls around, when it starts to get cool at night,
Speaker 1: I'm like, okay, it's stout weather. So it's nice to
Speaker 1: have some of those perfect time of beers. And that
Speaker 1: being said, this isn't like one of those massive stouts either,
Speaker 1: like just truly is just like a nice, easy drinking
Speaker 1: coffee stout. And earlier on to you said, is there
Speaker 1: lactose in this? Because it it does almost have like
Speaker 1: this kind of lactose milk stout quality to it. If
Speaker 1: you happen to be near this brewery, maybe you've not
Speaker 1: branched out and tried some of these different beers before.
Speaker 1: I would highly recommend this one. This is an easy
Speaker 1: way to try a new style without overly assaulting the senses,
Speaker 1: no doubt. All right, that's gonna do it for this episode.
Speaker 1: For show notes for this episode, and links to any
Speaker 1: of the resources that we mentioned, including where to go
Speaker 1: get your personalized Social Security statement from the federal government.
Speaker 1: Will have that link and more up on our website
Speaker 1: at how to money dot com. That's right, and up
Speaker 1: there will also post jols social Security number, which is
Speaker 1: two seven six five. I'll stop there. I just made
Speaker 1: those numbers out by the way. Um, now, if you
Speaker 1: are listening to this show and you have not subscribed,
Speaker 1: make sure you subscribe. That way you don't miss any
Speaker 1: future episodes. And if you are subscribed and you haven't
Speaker 1: left us a review yet wherever you listen, but specifically
Speaker 1: over at Apple Podcasts, that helps tremendously. It helps others
Speaker 1: to find the show, and that's gonna hopefully help them
Speaker 1: to make smarter decisions with their money so that they
Speaker 1: can be less reliant on Social Security down the road.
Speaker 1: We'd appreciate if you did that for us, and thanks
Speaker 1: in advance for that, Joel. That's going to be a
Speaker 1: buddy until next time. Best Friends Out, Best Friends Out,