Speaker 1: From UFOs to psychic powers and government conspiracies. History is
Speaker 1: riddled with unexplained events. You can turn back now or
Speaker 1: learn this stuff they don't want you to know. A
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Speaker 2: Hello, welcome back to the show. My name is Matt,
Speaker 2: my name is an Al.
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Speaker 3: You have also joined us, folks, and you are very
Speaker 3: much welcome into this global cabal. Technically we are a
Speaker 3: global cabal. As we record this evening, you listening at home,
Speaker 3: some of us in the US, some of us abroad.
Speaker 3: End together we are diving into hidden history. It's a
Speaker 3: controversial story in history always is. We are talking about
Speaker 3: a rare genre of object that has for many decades now,
Speaker 3: perhaps millennia, depending on who you ask. Fascinated archaeologist, ancient astronaut, theorist,
Speaker 3: creationist like biblical creationist, and skeptics alike, all at the
Speaker 3: same time. I kid you not the Eca stones. They're
Speaker 3: kind of like a care character actor in the world
Speaker 3: of conspiracy. Like if you heard the phrase, you might
Speaker 3: not immediately recognize it, but if you saw one of
Speaker 3: these stones, your memory would flash back to maybe a
Speaker 3: BBC documentary to maybe Eric von Danikin's Chariot of the
Speaker 3: Gods question mark, which is the title.
Speaker 5: I don't know.
Speaker 3: Do you guys remember hearing about this stuff?
Speaker 4: I do, and especially in the context of episode that
Speaker 4: you and I did recently, Ben, when Matt was away
Speaker 4: about some kind of supposed alien artifacts discs or like,
Speaker 4: you know, things with hieroglyphs carved in portraying some alternate
Speaker 4: history that may or may not have actually taken place,
Speaker 4: the idea of anachartistic technology.
Speaker 3: The troop of stones, that's the one. Yeah, Matt, do
Speaker 3: you what about you? Man? Do you remember these?
Speaker 6: Yeah, it's been a minute. It's been quite a minute,
Speaker 6: but we've been fascinated by humans, that is the Incan
Speaker 6: Empire since it was discovered by people who were writing it,
Speaker 6: writing down things about it, right, and it hasn't been
Speaker 6: that long, which is crazy. But just the stones in
Speaker 6: particular that are used in sites throughout Peru, throughout where
Speaker 6: the Incan Empire was, they are baffling. They are so
Speaker 6: perfect in incredible ways, in ways that they should not
Speaker 6: be possibly that good. And I think that's why all
Speaker 6: of us our fascination just flares up when it comes
Speaker 6: to something like these specific stones, and we'll get into
Speaker 6: exactly what they are.
Speaker 3: How did they get there? How did you get here?
Speaker 5: Well? How did I get here? I play man once in.
Speaker 4: A lifetime is what these things would be if they
Speaker 4: in fact exist.
Speaker 3: H Paul, forgive us our cold opens keep getting longer.
Speaker 3: But that was gold. Here are the facts. We start
Speaker 3: with Peru. When most people think of Peru, the modern
Speaker 3: day country, they immediately also think of the Inca Empire.
Speaker 3: The Inca Empire first appeared in what we call Peru
Speaker 3: today sometime during the twelfth century. Yet it arose from
Speaker 3: the I would say, the jetsam in the flotsam of
Speaker 3: many earlier pre Inca and civilizations in the region because
Speaker 3: people have been living there for thousands and thousands and
Speaker 3: thousands of years. The Inca Empire in the greater context
Speaker 3: is to your point, Matt, they're kind of the new
Speaker 3: kids on the block.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 4: The Inca has developed that culture in the Andes region
Speaker 4: of South America modern day Peru, Northern Ecuadora, and Chile
Speaker 4: and began to grow larger and larger through military conquests.
Speaker 5: Essentially.
Speaker 4: I mean, they were, like you said, Ben, they were
Speaker 4: sort of like conquering surround civilizations and sort of absorbing
Speaker 4: them culturally speaking, and also militarily.
Speaker 5: Of course.
Speaker 6: They were also really good at defending their territory and
Speaker 6: building places, structures and laying the mountain ways that could
Speaker 6: be defended extremely well.
Speaker 4: And just add one last thing, not to sound like
Speaker 4: I was just describing them as some sort of bloodthirsty
Speaker 4: warring people, they were also damn good at diplomacy modeling
Speaker 4: I don't know, systems of negotiation.
Speaker 5: That we might find at home in modern you know.
Speaker 4: Maybe even more so how I was about to say,
Speaker 4: you know, like diplomacy is maybe lacking a little bit.
Speaker 4: These days in some parts of the world, but they
Speaker 4: were great at it.
Speaker 3: It reminds me a little bit, guys, of the what
Speaker 3: do we call it, pax romana, the idea that the
Speaker 3: Roman Empire generated international peace of a sort caveat asterisk
Speaker 3: asterisk during its time time. If there were different if
Speaker 3: there were different medical solutions to new diseases, if history
Speaker 3: had swung slightly left or right on the hinge, then
Speaker 3: there may have been a pasperuvia. The point about diplomacy
Speaker 3: cannot be left behind. Another word for the Inca, and
Speaker 3: part of our pronunciation would be to Wanatinsuyu's I'm in
Speaker 3: a weird place, so my accident's all weird now. But
Speaker 3: this you're You're absolutely right, Nolan. I love that you
Speaker 3: point this out. The empire, or what we'll call the
Speaker 3: state of the Inca, spanned two thousand and five hundred
Speaker 3: miles at its peak. No pun left behind peak. That's
Speaker 3: a mountain joke.
Speaker 7: The empire, yes, the perfect The empire had twelve million
Speaker 7: members individuals.
Speaker 3: From to that other point about disparate groups being gathered
Speaker 3: together under the same system. These twelve million people came
Speaker 3: from one hundred plus different ethnic groups and you have
Speaker 3: to marvel at the sheer ambition, right, the cold genius
Speaker 3: of a society like this, because despite their large, immensely
Speaker 3: diverse population, the sprawling size, they were crazy cohesive, especially
Speaker 3: like they could have taught the Europeans some lessons. They
Speaker 3: had agricultural systems, they had roadways that were dope, especially
Speaker 3: considering inhospitable mountainous terrain.
Speaker 4: Isn't that interesting though, how Like culture is largely dictator
Speaker 4: to the victors by like how point their weapons could
Speaker 4: be versus another people, whether it be swords and that
Speaker 4: kind of warfare, or just you know, the upgrade into firepower.
Speaker 5: Like, it doesn't necessarily mean that because.
Speaker 4: Of culture reign supreme, that they were like the superior
Speaker 4: culture in terms of the things that they accomplished and
Speaker 4: the organization and the structure of their civilization doesn't mean
Speaker 4: that at all. In fact, sometimes it can mean quite
Speaker 4: the opposite. Just means they had bigger guns.
Speaker 6: I just got his image in my mind of some
Speaker 6: generals standing around a table. They're like, oh, crap, you guys,
Speaker 6: the Mongolian Empires on its way here. And then another
Speaker 6: general is like, yeah, but how pointy are their weapons?
Speaker 4: How I use point as a stand in for powerful.
Speaker 4: But you get what I'm saying.
Speaker 3: I hear the horses, and that's point actually there there.
Speaker 3: You know, one of the big, one of the big
Speaker 3: game changers, of course, was the stir up mm hmm.
Speaker 5: The bridle even I'm sure too, the bit.
Speaker 4: Yeah, So that would be all kind of part of
Speaker 4: the same piece of And it's funny we don't think
Speaker 4: about that stuff as technology, but a good saddle and
Speaker 4: stirrup and bridle absolutely technology that allows you to harness
Speaker 4: those horses and march them in into battle.
Speaker 6: Just before we get away from the agricultural stuff and
Speaker 6: moving things around via roads and aqueducts and stuff like that.
Speaker 6: The innovations that were happening agriculturally in this part of
Speaker 6: the world, especially when you consider most of the soil
Speaker 6: that was moved up to like an elevation of eleven
Speaker 6: thousand feet. It had to be moved there. There was
Speaker 6: no soil that was arable in those areas in those regions.
Speaker 6: You had to change soil a little bit, move it
Speaker 6: up there, and then grow stuff.
Speaker 3: And for comparison, folks, to Matt's earlier point, eleven thousand
Speaker 3: feet is three thousand is like three thousand, three hundred
Speaker 3: and fifty something meters. It's a very long way to
Speaker 3: hold stuff, especially when you're talking about hauling it pretty
Speaker 3: much vertically, because you know it's the Andes dude.
Speaker 4: It just immediately makes me think of the Werner Herzog
Speaker 4: film Fitzgeraldo where in Machu Picchu there's literally it's a
Speaker 4: story about a dude that wants to build it up
Speaker 4: opera house in this part of the world. He hauls
Speaker 4: a ship over the mountains in that exact same fashion.
Speaker 4: It's got to have been inspired, like you know, by
Speaker 4: the actual history of it.
Speaker 5: It's a really interesting film.
Speaker 6: And that is not to say that there are not
Speaker 6: jungles that are at seven thousand and eight thousand feet
Speaker 6: in elevation there, which isn't nearly the feet of eleven
Speaker 6: thousand feet in total, right, But it's still just the
Speaker 6: matter of moving things inefficient ways at a time when
Speaker 6: efficiency was hard to find.
Speaker 5: It's unbelievable.
Speaker 4: Just again, I'm sorry, I just I can't get over
Speaker 4: just the innovation that be required to solve some of
Speaker 4: these problems, you know, in functional ways.
Speaker 3: At Levy posit gentlemen, another prime mover of the success
Speaker 3: of the Inca Empire. We spoke a bit about pointy sticks,
Speaker 3: which is of course botonomy for weaponry, right for technology.
Speaker 3: I would advance to you that the all of us
Speaker 3: listening that the primary weapon, in many ways was also ideology.
Speaker 3: Religion has ever been the pointiest stick of the human experiments.
Speaker 3: So centralized religion, centralized language, a Lingua franca, right, shout
Speaker 3: out to our pal Lingua Franca, the activist here in Georgia.
Speaker 5: Uh.
Speaker 3: The civilization as we know it blossomed over time, but
Speaker 3: it fell quite quickly with the arrival of Spanish forces.
Speaker 3: And a lot of times in the history books, the
Speaker 3: way you read it is the Spanish came in and
Speaker 3: they were jerks and they killed everybody. But what how
Speaker 3: did they succeed? They came in amid a civil war
Speaker 3: in the Incan Empire, the Incan Empire, the Inca excuse me,
Speaker 3: empire was divided, and along come the Spanish forces. They had, yeah,
Speaker 3: superior weaponry. Right, do you guys remember that book Guns,
Speaker 3: Germs and Steel m This is I.
Speaker 4: Think I get with the idea, yeah, by Jared Diamond.
Speaker 3: The other thing that the Spanish forces brought with them
Speaker 3: was unfamiliar diseases. There was no herd immunity, and so
Speaker 3: it came to pass. The last stronghold of the Incan
Speaker 3: Empire was overtaken in fifteen seventy two, which is, you know,
Speaker 3: the grand scheme of things. Like if we think about
Speaker 3: how this empire arose on the same planet that gave
Speaker 3: birth to dinosaurs, fifteen seventy two is pretty recent. What
Speaker 3: blows everybody's mind. We actually don't know a ton about
Speaker 3: this empire. We definitely don't know a ton about the
Speaker 3: early days because they have no written records or I
Speaker 3: don't know, like written records caveat, they have a nodding system.
Speaker 2: To commit we still don't understand.
Speaker 3: Okay, yeah, we don't understand. We know it's there, but
Speaker 3: it's like that weird canea form that no one can
Speaker 3: decipher him.
Speaker 6: Yeah, because you were about to say, and I cut
Speaker 6: you off in but it has something to do with numbers,
Speaker 6: right and counting, and probably tied closely to the agricultural
Speaker 6: stuff they had going on.
Speaker 3: Probably yeah, and you know they were they were definitely
Speaker 3: a monarchy, right. So a lot of a lot of
Speaker 3: TLC tender loving care was put into documenting bloodlines and lineage.
Speaker 3: Very House of the Dragon minus the Dragons. I guess
Speaker 3: does that land?
Speaker 5: I think so.
Speaker 4: We always talk about how the Song of Ice and
Speaker 4: Fire and all those Georgia R. Martin books are heavily
Speaker 4: influenced and inspired by actual, you know, historical struggles and
Speaker 4: political maneuvers and all that stuff.
Speaker 5: I do.
Speaker 2: Like this picture.
Speaker 6: We're painting though, of assimilation to some extent, a ton
Speaker 6: of innovation that's happening here. But because of that, as simil,
Speaker 6: there are these groups. Eventually there's a civil war and
Speaker 6: some outside group comes in and wipes them out, and
Speaker 6: we're left. History is left to pick up the pieces
Speaker 6: to figure out what the heck happened and who they
Speaker 6: actually were, and we're still in the dark.
Speaker 2: But then these freaking stones. Man, oh, I'm sorry, get.
Speaker 3: These stones, these freaking stones. Yeah, so our present knowledge, like,
Speaker 3: not just Westerners, not just the US, not just Peruvian
Speaker 3: archaeologists themselves, the entire world. In the evenings of twenty
Speaker 3: twenty four, all we know about Inca as people, as
Speaker 3: a culture, as a civilization and empire. It comes from
Speaker 3: a combination of really smart archaeological studies, oral tradition that
Speaker 3: has been that was preserved by and I don't want
Speaker 3: to sound dismissive here, it's preserved by a real life
Speaker 3: version of the world burgers in Mad Max, like the
Speaker 3: folklore or retelling of the stories, which goes back to
Speaker 3: something we always reference the Great Game of Telephone and
Speaker 3: there's something there's something we hit on just a second ago,
Speaker 3: Matt that I think you mentioned the written accounts. The
Speaker 3: first actual facts, written accounts of the Inca Empire come
Speaker 3: from their enemies, the observers, the Spanish missionaries.
Speaker 2: Yep.
Speaker 6: Isn't that the way too, that the bad guys get
Speaker 6: to write the story?
Speaker 3: Now?
Speaker 2: Well the okay, well, yes, the back.
Speaker 4: I mean you know now that you mentioned it, like been,
Speaker 4: your reference to House of the Dragon in particular is
Speaker 4: even more appropriate because, like that book was entirely historical
Speaker 4: records that were then you know, interpreted and made into
Speaker 4: a TV series probably require a lot of creative license,
Speaker 4: because when you read things in this format, it's hard
Speaker 4: sometimes to really know what the context is around how
Speaker 4: someone's being described, you know, in terms of like their
Speaker 4: acts and even these like nicknames that people get stuck
Speaker 4: with throughout history.
Speaker 3: Oh that's a great point, I think we're That reminds
Speaker 3: me of what was it ethel read the unready?
Speaker 4: Yeah, nobody, nobody would name themselves that given the choice,
Speaker 4: you know, but history determines that, and oftentimes history is
Speaker 4: written by the people that are mad at you.
Speaker 6: Did he actually hold the door like that? I'm just saying, like,
Speaker 6: did he actually hold the door like that?
Speaker 5: Did he?
Speaker 4: Did?
Speaker 6: He?
Speaker 2: Though?
Speaker 3: Yeah? It's like every time a new a new emperor
Speaker 3: of Rome or a new pope gets on the scene,
Speaker 3: Oh gosh. Yeah. Look, you don't have to have seen
Speaker 3: the cinematic masterpiece Vibes, starring Jeff Goldbloom and Cindy Lapper.
Speaker 5: But you should just putting that out there.
Speaker 3: Thank you, No, thank you? Yes you should. You should
Speaker 3: see it. Yeah, you just see it. You don't have
Speaker 3: to have seen it to realize. The Western world has
Speaker 3: been obsessed with questions about this empire, partially due to
Speaker 3: that lack of written records or primary sources, and a
Speaker 3: lot of the allure comes from I think we can
Speaker 3: say fairly a lot of the allure comes from all
Speaker 3: these inexplicable physical artifacts. Right, Machu Pichu. We were talking
Speaker 3: off air, and Matt you had mentioned you got super
Speaker 3: into the questions that still remain about the fantastic stone work,
Speaker 3: like talk about durability, right.
Speaker 6: Yeah, durability and perfection almost when it comes to the
Speaker 6: smoothing of stones, the placing of stones. This is the
Speaker 6: stuff that I don't know, pulled me into a lot
Speaker 6: of these things back in the day when when I
Speaker 6: was watching you know, the Creator of Cherries of the
Speaker 6: Gods on Ancient Aliens and really getting a close up
Speaker 6: view through my television screen of these sites specifically in
Speaker 6: Peru that were It's like at the at the top
Speaker 6: of Machu Picchu, if you keep going up right another
Speaker 6: like forty five minutes an hour long hike, you get
Speaker 6: to a place called Waina Piachu I think is the
Speaker 6: name of it. It's like a it's an overlook of
Speaker 6: Machu Pichu on the site, just from a different cliff
Speaker 6: there or a different peak of the mountain. And there's
Speaker 6: a place in that structure called the temple. They call
Speaker 6: it the Temple of the Moon or something like that,
Speaker 6: but it's not actually what it was for had nothing
Speaker 6: really to do with the moon.
Speaker 2: It was just it's titled that.
Speaker 6: But inside there the stone, the stone work, and the
Speaker 6: stone structures. It just shouldn't it shouldn't have been able
Speaker 6: to have been created without the presence of some of
Speaker 6: the iron and steel implements that were never recovered or
Speaker 6: found at any of these locations, which you know, maybe
Speaker 6: they all through the tools off the mountain at the
Speaker 6: end when they finished, but it sure seems like there
Speaker 6: would be some tools around that would just be wasteful.
Speaker 5: I'd hate that.
Speaker 4: I mean, it does make you think of the kind
Speaker 4: of you know, theories that revolve around the creation of
Speaker 4: the pyramids, because of the type of technology that would
Speaker 4: be required to achieve that level of symmetry and perfection
Speaker 4: and just to hoist those damn blocks that high.
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's a pickle, right, I mean, how do you
Speaker 3: how do you explain this? Well?
Speaker 6: Yeah, and how do you do it without being dismissive
Speaker 6: of the technology and intelligence of the people's right that
Speaker 6: that you're referring to in either the Middle East or
Speaker 6: here in Peru back in the day, and.
Speaker 3: Eric von denikin of course, like many people went straight
Speaker 3: to aliens. Yes, it's a little walk, yeah, bit of
Speaker 3: a stroll.
Speaker 2: God, it would be cool, though, it would be.
Speaker 3: So freaking cool. Everybody check out vibes, so also Steve
Speaker 3: Bushemis and vibes. All right, this is not the point
Speaker 3: of the.
Speaker 5: Story, so is Cindy Laubern.
Speaker 3: Yes, yes, this all all, all of this brings oh
Speaker 3: we didn't mention the Nosca lines, right, an earlier civilization
Speaker 3: that predates the Inca. They created these huge petroglyphs, right,
Speaker 3: geoglyphs millennia ago, and they're the most infamous thing about
Speaker 3: them is that you can only really see the images
Speaker 3: depicted by those if you are at a very high
Speaker 3: elevation and they're in a very flat space, so there's
Speaker 3: not like a mountain you could climb up to say,
Speaker 3: oh that's a monkey, dude.
Speaker 6: Or the observations of space from I think they're called intwohanas.
Speaker 6: I don't know how to say it correctly, but it's
Speaker 6: the the astronomical observation sites that they created, and I
Speaker 6: think there's only a couple of them left that are
Speaker 6: somewhat intact.
Speaker 2: But the sophistication on that level, it's just it's cool.
Speaker 3: Agreed, And this all brings us to a bizarre question
Speaker 3: point of our exploration this evening, what if amid all
Speaker 3: these mysteries, all these unanswered questions. The Inca did have
Speaker 3: some written records that had only recently been recovered, records
Speaker 3: that not only illuminate the history of Incan culture, but
Speaker 3: in doing so fundamentally upend everything we know about history
Speaker 3: entire According to the true believers, fringe scholars, revisionist historians,
Speaker 3: conspiracy theorists, and at least one Peruvian physician, the answers
Speaker 3: lay in something called the Eca Stones. Here's where it
Speaker 3: gets crazy.
Speaker 5: Eca not Inca, right, right, I see a.
Speaker 4: The Eca Stones are a collection of stones that were
Speaker 4: allegedly discovered in a cave near a place in Peru
Speaker 4: in fact called Eca.
Speaker 5: Yet the issue isn't so.
Speaker 4: Much the stones themselves, but much like the dropbut stones
Speaker 4: that we mentioned recently, part of a stone series. What
Speaker 4: is engraved into them?
Speaker 6: Mm?
Speaker 2: White walkers? Right, That's that's what's on there.
Speaker 4: God, they never really justified that symbol that the White
Speaker 4: Walkers kept making, did They.
Speaker 2: Just just don't don't think about it.
Speaker 5: End game. Game of Thrones not good.
Speaker 4: So I've been rewatching it and it's really good, guys,
Speaker 4: But boy, I can't I can't put away as thought
Speaker 4: in the back of my mind, how bad it's gonna
Speaker 4: get you know what I mean, It's just I'm still
Speaker 4: it is it is, but it's not hindering my enjoyment
Speaker 4: of the good parts of it. So let's let's move
Speaker 4: forward with that in mind. Sorry, Matt, you said White Walkers, Like,
Speaker 4: what do you expect me to do?
Speaker 3: Oh gosh, when's the winter will come out? At some point.
Speaker 3: I believe in you, George.
Speaker 4: And I think it's go to glow all that shame away,
Speaker 4: one would hope, you know what.
Speaker 3: Also, a therapist worth their salt would say, don't let
Speaker 3: fear of the future ruin enjoyment of the present. Maybe,
Speaker 3: or anxiety or worry is just you know, conspiracy theories
Speaker 3: about yourself.
Speaker 4: That I would also refer to something you bring up
Speaker 4: Off and Ben, the sunk cost fallacy.
Speaker 5: You're starting to feel like it sucks. Just walk away.
Speaker 5: You'll feel better about it, I promise you.
Speaker 4: Just don't feel like you got to see it through
Speaker 4: the end, because it doesn't get better once it starts
Speaker 4: getting bad.
Speaker 7: So, oh boy, we're we're also folks, welcome backstage. We're
Speaker 7: also alluding to some pretty intense conversations we had about
Speaker 7: that show hanging out not related to our pursuit here
Speaker 7: I remember texting about this. But proponents of the idea
Speaker 7: that the eCos stones are genuine here's their controversial stance.
Speaker 7: Here's what the vast majority of archaeology would call nuts
Speaker 7: and bananas. They say these stones depict genuine hidden history,
Speaker 7: that they are primary evidence of something unknown to the
Speaker 7: modern world. Each of the stones called an eCos stone,
Speaker 7: and we'll talk about their physical description in a second.
Speaker 7: Each of them have what are called motifs carbon images,
Speaker 7: and they often appear to contradict basic accepted facts about
Speaker 7: the origin of Earth and the things living upon it,
Speaker 7: for example, like the hot stuff, the juicy stuff. You'll
Speaker 7: see stones that appear to depict human or human like
Speaker 7: individuals in the gall harbor in the style of Inca
Speaker 7: Maya or Aztec culture, attacking these huge monsters and they're
Speaker 7: using axes, and the monsters are interpreted to be dinosaurs,
Speaker 7: not dinosaurs, the way like a chicken is a dinosaur
Speaker 7: or not dinosaurs, the way that a bird is a dinosaur.
Speaker 7: But what are pal Lor and Voclobama call actual facts dinosaurs?
Speaker 6: Yeah, like depictions of dinosaurs that I remember from my childhood.
Speaker 6: My mother is a school teacher, and she just brought
Speaker 6: this book of dinosaurs over that she used to teach
Speaker 6: kids when I was a kid, and it included a
Speaker 6: bunch of these cutouts that she made. And in some
Speaker 6: of these stones it looks it looks like a Brachiosaurus
Speaker 6: or a Brontosaurus, which we know isn't the real thing anymore,
Speaker 6: but it looks like those pictures.
Speaker 4: One of them is like a Nassi type creature, you know,
Speaker 4: which I guess would have been what was this, the
Speaker 4: big old boy that was a underwater long neck plesiosaurs. Yeah,
Speaker 4: probably the plesiosaurs, Yeah, I guess. So this one is, Yeah,
Speaker 4: it's got like a hump on its back. It really
Speaker 4: does have like NeSSI vies, but you're right, Matt. The
Speaker 4: triceratops here is like classic.
Speaker 5: Children's book triceratops depiction.
Speaker 4: And the thing that's interesting is if we were gonna
Speaker 4: take this as a as a record of history, wouldn't
Speaker 4: these dinosaurs not to be all Jurassic parking about it,
Speaker 4: but wouldn't these dinosaurs have feathers? Like if these were
Speaker 4: like the true dinosaurs that walk the earth. I don't know,
Speaker 4: I just remember that being a thing.
Speaker 3: Also real quick, plesiosaur I should show that up plesiosaur
Speaker 3: is offered as a cryptozoological explanation for the purported existence
Speaker 3: of NeSSI the luckedest sponsor. But the plesiosaur is not
Speaker 3: a dinosaur. We are fun at parties?
Speaker 2: What is it?
Speaker 5: It's true?
Speaker 6: Man?
Speaker 5: I'm sorry, man, I mean I'm.
Speaker 3: A reptile that doesn't count as a dinosaur. I think
Speaker 3: they're fair asaup terrig or something like that.
Speaker 4: Gotcha, guess I'm I can think google it if you
Speaker 4: have make signistiction with my potential history. But like Matt,
Speaker 4: I mean, you really hit it on the head. The
Speaker 4: stegosaurus here, like the plates depicted on its back, it
Speaker 4: is like the stuff of like literal children's books about
Speaker 4: how fun dinosaurs are.
Speaker 5: It's kind of wild.
Speaker 3: It's quite accessible, and I think that's what we're hitting on, right.
Speaker 3: And if that's not enough. These stones also, because there
Speaker 3: are many many, there are thousands of these, they also
Speaker 3: appear to at times depict advanced technology, the usage of
Speaker 3: something that could be interpreted as a telescope, medical procedures
Speaker 3: like c sections, maybe a heart transplant in a culture
Speaker 3: that we'll just get in front of this, folks, we
Speaker 3: know about you know, blood, magic and all that stuff.
Speaker 3: It's what is being depicted there seems much more medicinal
Speaker 3: in nature than it does sacrificial in nature.
Speaker 2: Wow.
Speaker 6: So when were these things found?
Speaker 3: Ah? That's where we get to a little bit of
Speaker 3: a rabbit hole, right, because we know we know when
Speaker 3: the primary proponent of these ideas encountered them, and that's
Speaker 3: in nineteen sixty six. We don't know when the first
Speaker 3: modern person modern as in like post Spanish conquest. We
Speaker 3: don't know when the first person post fifteen hundreds found them,
Speaker 3: which means we also don't know when they were lost
Speaker 3: or buried or stored away. But we do know what
Speaker 3: they look like. Most of them are pretty small. Most
Speaker 3: of them are something you could hold in one or
Speaker 3: two hands, summer tiny, like pebbles. A few of them
Speaker 3: are outright boulders, like the biggest one is half a
Speaker 3: meter in length. And the one thing they have in
Speaker 3: common aside from these carvings, is that they are all
Speaker 3: composed of a tremendously inconvenient type of volcanic rock called andesite.
Speaker 5: What makes it inconvenient?
Speaker 6: Man?
Speaker 4: Is it?
Speaker 5: Uh?
Speaker 4: It does have to do with problems with actually verifying
Speaker 4: the authenticity or dating them.
Speaker 3: I would say one of the problems with dating them
Speaker 3: is the unwillingness, uh to date them if we're I
Speaker 3: know that sounds a little snarky, but from my understanding,
Speaker 3: the issue with andesite, the reason it's an inconvenient rock
Speaker 3: is that it's a pain in the ass to carve.
Speaker 4: You see it, you'll break apart right the brittle Yeah,
Speaker 4: maybe not so much riddle as in, uh, the nature
Speaker 4: of the material makes it difficult to put sophisticated designs
Speaker 4: into it, and maybe that breaks breaks the surface.
Speaker 6: Yeah, I've seen it described as unyielding and flinty quote unquote, yeah, exactly.
Speaker 6: And andesite is present in places like of some of
Speaker 6: the stonework in Machu Pichu, some of the stone work
Speaker 6: in Piasak or Pisac another one of these ruins that
Speaker 6: has crazy carvings in and a site that just doesn't
Speaker 6: make any dang sense. But just for this stone, it
Speaker 6: makes sense for this to be one of the stones
Speaker 6: that is, you know, primarily used in whatever this is.
Speaker 6: If they're genuine artifacts, it makes a ton of sense.
Speaker 6: But it is weird that they are that difficult to
Speaker 6: work with.
Speaker 3: Right, because we know, at least even without a written record,
Speaker 3: we know that there were other stones in the roster
Speaker 3: that could have been used.
Speaker 5: Yeah, carving granted, granted.
Speaker 6: Yeah, one of the things that humans have been carving
Speaker 6: away at for a long time.
Speaker 3: Granted. Is so hot right now, for the past several
Speaker 3: thousand years, it's really.
Speaker 5: Been I think it's I think it's cold places, it's
Speaker 5: real up the cover.
Speaker 4: Hang on a second, let's take a quick pause here,
Speaker 4: hear a word from our sponsor, and then come back
Speaker 4: to this discussion.
Speaker 2: And we've returned. What's going on now?
Speaker 4: Are you saying, Ben, that there were more convenient rocks
Speaker 4: available at the time that maybe would have been more
Speaker 4: conducive to making this kind of art in the time
Speaker 4: that these are purported to have been created.
Speaker 3: Absolutely, No, we're of course obviously, let's be honest, some
Speaker 3: of us are related to sculptors of note. But it's
Speaker 3: not like we finished this show and then you're.
Speaker 4: Talking about none of the rest of us are awesome.
Speaker 5: It's true.
Speaker 4: We we did the Grand Industry at Alberton. If anybody
Speaker 4: knows about the Georgia Kidstones, we did go visit some
Speaker 4: of the folks there We've been to granite carving workshops
Speaker 4: and it requires serious skill and the right tools to
Speaker 4: get the job done. But yeah, I wanted to mention
Speaker 4: Ben the anthracite. I looked this up and there's something
Speaker 4: called the mos scale, which I was not aware of,
Speaker 4: and it is a scale of mineral hardness. An anthracite
Speaker 4: is a seven out of ten on the most scale and.
Speaker 5: Site that is at a site. Yeah, excuse me, a
Speaker 5: seven out of ten.
Speaker 2: Wow, that's why it's weird, guys.
Speaker 6: I had this clear image while we were talking earlier
Speaker 6: of whatever next human being thing is that we've discussed
Speaker 6: on the show a couple of times, whether it's technology,
Speaker 6: you know, a technological man or a highly evolved weird man.
Speaker 6: But they show up and they're just digging through the
Speaker 6: remnants of what we're once houses, and like they seem
Speaker 6: to all have these flat surfaces made of granite in
Speaker 6: one particular area of all their living spaces. I maybe
Speaker 6: it was a kitchen, sorry, I'm thinking about granite countertops.
Speaker 4: Or perhaps something for a sacrifice exact.
Speaker 3: Yeah, because people put their perspectives on it, they'll probably
Speaker 3: conclude it was a shrine. You see these primitive meat
Speaker 3: forms had had gods, and they did not know the
Speaker 3: codes of their gods.
Speaker 5: They just to laugh.
Speaker 6: And they are all these knife carvings in the granite
Speaker 6: that must be there on purpose from the rituals.
Speaker 3: It's like it's like when future historians or archaeologists travel,
Speaker 3: you know, thousands and thousands of years back, and they
Speaker 3: see the ruins of a modern metropolis, they're going to think.
Speaker 3: They're going to see highway bridges and they're going to
Speaker 3: mistake them for aqueducts, and they're going to see skyscrapers,
Speaker 3: and they're going to think these people really worshiped penises.
Speaker 3: Look at all these penis shrines and these aqueducts they're everywhere.
Speaker 5: Not to mention, their priorities were all jacked up.
Speaker 3: Sorry, oh those worth no pud left behind.
Speaker 5: And also I just want to ask Matt, who are
Speaker 5: these animals that are carving directly under their granite countertops?
Speaker 2: And then we must be stopped. Acident must be stopped.
Speaker 5: That must be stopped.
Speaker 3: All right, Okay, Emperor of cutting boards over here, this cutting.
Speaker 5: Board, guys, come on, respect the granite.
Speaker 3: Respect them ories cutting boards. You got a board just
Speaker 3: to just to cut?
Speaker 5: I got a board for meats.
Speaker 4: I got a board for veggies, and then I got
Speaker 4: my nice board that I only bust out when I
Speaker 4: have fancied dinner parties.
Speaker 2: Like a turkey.
Speaker 5: Exactly.
Speaker 3: I'm very pressed with h Okay, I got a lot
Speaker 3: to learn.
Speaker 5: I'm sorry I'm high rating you guys on the cutting boards.
Speaker 5: I really do know.
Speaker 3: It's it's change is painful. It's a change we need
Speaker 3: to make, and thank you for taking us there. So, no,
Speaker 3: could you spell the most scale?
Speaker 5: Is it? M o hs m o hs scale? Yeah?
Speaker 4: Seven out of ten? Okay, so might be pronounced moss.
Speaker 4: I think I'm going to say I like Mo's better.
Speaker 3: I like it too, you know. I mean you're the
Speaker 3: one of us who has a cutting board, So I'm
Speaker 3: taking like so so all of these stones, or question
Speaker 3: naturally becomes how could someone carve into a stone of
Speaker 3: this hardness right with the material science or with the
Speaker 3: tools available? And then why would they choose that over
Speaker 3: another perhaps more malleable stone. What we see here is
Speaker 3: that all the ecastones have a patina, a dark a
Speaker 3: dark coating degradation due to weather. It's an oxidized surface,
Speaker 3: and the images that you see on these stones are
Speaker 3: scratched into that surface rather than actually punched into the
Speaker 3: act the stone itself.
Speaker 4: You know what, I bet that this type of stone
Speaker 4: is used for if you, guys ever had a hot stone?
Speaker 4: Must am I the only bougie person here?
Speaker 6: Who?
Speaker 5: Oh my god?
Speaker 4: There are there are listen, guys. I was also married
Speaker 4: to a massage therapist. Okay, so that is mainly my
Speaker 4: my references here. But there is a thing called homestone massages,
Speaker 4: and they use these very smooth volcanic stones that hold
Speaker 4: heat really well and are incredibly hard. And I'm almost
Speaker 4: positive these are the exact same type that we're seeing here.
Speaker 6: No, I've actually gotten one of those two. That's fine,
Speaker 6: I know what you're talking about.
Speaker 3: Sorry to roast you a little bit there, it's it's
Speaker 3: with great affection. I've just I'm laughing imagining first to
Speaker 3: write about the stones, and secondly, I'm laughing imagining how
Speaker 3: many emails we're gonna get with people saying you slobs,
Speaker 3: get a cutting board.
Speaker 4: Now. Now, I will defend you guys to the bitter
Speaker 4: and I know that, I know you're playing coy and
Speaker 4: you both have.
Speaker 5: Copious cutting boards.
Speaker 4: But yeah, a volcanic rock another really hard one is
Speaker 4: a basalt that would be very high iron, and I
Speaker 4: believe that is what is used for that practice.
Speaker 5: But an andesite is very very close.
Speaker 3: To them one hundred percent.
Speaker 5: Yeah.
Speaker 3: And the images on these, again, these many stones, they
Speaker 3: vary quite widely in complexity. Some are simple pictures engraved
Speaker 3: on just one side of the stone, right, like a
Speaker 3: coin with an image stamped simply on the obverse. But
Speaker 3: the other stones may have much more sophisticated complex designs.
Speaker 3: And what's weird is we've looked at a lot of
Speaker 3: these or research of this. These stones run the gamut
Speaker 3: of known cultures throughout this part of South America modern
Speaker 3: day Peru, Ecuador, Chile, we will call it. You could
Speaker 3: see the Parakhas, the Nosca, the you mentioned Eim earlier, Matt,
Speaker 3: the Tijuanaku, you can see the Inca others. Other stones
Speaker 3: are coming out of nowhere, like who carved this, what
Speaker 3: school of thought? What culture created this? And a lot
Speaker 3: of the stones, especially spoiler, the more simplistic ones, they
Speaker 3: tend to have motifs that you would recognize in the
Speaker 3: wild today. Oh this is clearly a fish. Oh this
Speaker 3: is a drawing of a flower and etching of a
Speaker 3: flower that I would see somewhere else in the world,
Speaker 3: or animals that might be alive today. You might see
Speaker 3: basic geometric symbols, you know, triangles, fractal patterns, petroglyphs, geoglyphs.
Speaker 4: It kind of reminds me of that that hoax book
Speaker 4: that ultimately wasn't really a hoax at all. The people
Speaker 4: just kind of made much to do about it, the
Speaker 4: Codex Seraphina. And then there was another one that depicted
Speaker 4: like plant life and animal species that just don't exist.
Speaker 5: That's the one Voytage manuscript. Yeah, thank you.
Speaker 4: Just reminds me of that, which maybe is a reason
Speaker 4: to give it a second look.
Speaker 6: Well, you may be thinking, as you're hearing the descriptions
Speaker 6: of those things, that you've seen images of those things
Speaker 6: in this area before, but on a much different scale.
Speaker 5: Nice nice one.
Speaker 3: Yeah, nothing but net there, because some of the stones
Speaker 3: do appear to emulate the massive images formed by the
Speaker 3: earlier Nazca lines, right, and we are we're bracketing elementary
Speaker 3: questions like carbon dating and age and providence for a
Speaker 3: reason which you'll see later. But how mystifying is it
Speaker 3: knowing just what we've learned now that a stone you
Speaker 3: could hold maybe in one hand, shows you a very
Speaker 3: close imitation of something that is huge wrought across a plane.
Speaker 3: That's nuts.
Speaker 6: Yeah, especially given the theories of like why are the
Speaker 6: Nosca lines that big?
Speaker 2: Why are they there? Who are they for?
Speaker 6: And then you think about on a smaller scale like this,
Speaker 6: it makes a little more sense. I think if they're
Speaker 6: smaller and meant for some reason for the other humans
Speaker 6: that are going to handle them or see them on
Speaker 6: a regular basis. But when you put those two things
Speaker 6: and those concepts together being so similar, it just creates
Speaker 6: another puzzle for me at least.
Speaker 3: Yeah, hold the phone, fellow conspiracy realists. This has turned
Speaker 3: into a rare two parter Hold the Stones, Oh, hold
Speaker 3: the Inca Stones. Romance those Stones, if you will.
Speaker 4: Hot take Romancing the Stone better than Indiana Jones?
Speaker 5: Yeah, well, just kidding. I just want to get yelled at.
Speaker 5: It's not true.
Speaker 3: You can speak as it rides, I have a simple entity.
Speaker 3: We cannot wait to hear from you folks. Again, this
Speaker 3: is a very rare two partner for us. We are
Speaker 3: diving into the story of the Eca Stones. We can't
Speaker 3: wait for you to join us for part two. In
Speaker 3: the meantime, we've got some homework for you. Tell us
Speaker 3: your favorite strange, anachronistic artifacts, events, or other things from
Speaker 3: the bulk of history past. We tried to be easy
Speaker 3: to find online.
Speaker 5: That's try.
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