1 00:00:11,840 --> 00:00:15,080 Speaker 1: Greetings and welcome to wok a F with me Danielle Moody. 2 00:00:15,240 --> 00:00:18,280 Speaker 1: This week on my Patreon, I shared conversations that examined 3 00:00:18,280 --> 00:00:20,480 Speaker 1: how we can reverse the damage that the last four 4 00:00:20,560 --> 00:00:22,919 Speaker 1: years have done on our country and what can be 5 00:00:22,960 --> 00:00:25,920 Speaker 1: done to create a better future for everybody. Today, I'm 6 00:00:25,960 --> 00:00:29,000 Speaker 1: bringing you thoughtful taste from two of those interviews, looking 7 00:00:29,040 --> 00:00:32,199 Speaker 1: at the structural inequities in the public school system and 8 00:00:32,280 --> 00:00:36,440 Speaker 1: the continued fight for lgbtqequality. As always, to hear these 9 00:00:36,479 --> 00:00:40,000 Speaker 1: full discussions and get full one hour shows every single week, 10 00:00:40,280 --> 00:00:42,800 Speaker 1: head over to patreon dot com, slash woke a F 11 00:00:42,960 --> 00:00:45,640 Speaker 1: and subscribe For now. Take a listen to my talk 12 00:00:45,640 --> 00:00:50,080 Speaker 1: with educational scholar Bree Pickhour, author of Reading, Writing and Racism, 13 00:00:50,159 --> 00:00:54,200 Speaker 1: about how teaching race evasiveness to educators only deepens the 14 00:00:54,320 --> 00:00:59,520 Speaker 1: racial divide in our schools. What kind of pushback do 15 00:00:59,600 --> 00:01:03,200 Speaker 1: you yet when you're telling people like, oh, we're doing 16 00:01:03,200 --> 00:01:06,560 Speaker 1: this work, but we have to undo this work in 17 00:01:06,600 --> 00:01:09,840 Speaker 1: our classrooms, Like it isn't just a you know, an 18 00:01:09,880 --> 00:01:13,080 Speaker 1: exercise in like growth in our democracy, but it's like, 19 00:01:13,240 --> 00:01:17,040 Speaker 1: how do we do that? I'm so glad to hear 20 00:01:17,120 --> 00:01:19,520 Speaker 1: that that was your experience because it certainly isn't the 21 00:01:19,560 --> 00:01:23,559 Speaker 1: norm in teacher education programs. I think most teacher educators 22 00:01:23,600 --> 00:01:28,160 Speaker 1: consider themselves specialists in the subject area that they're preparing 23 00:01:28,200 --> 00:01:32,680 Speaker 1: people to teach. So I'm elementary education, my specialty of 24 00:01:32,800 --> 00:01:35,639 Speaker 1: social study, so that's what I'm supposed to prepare people 25 00:01:35,680 --> 00:01:40,040 Speaker 1: to do. Instead of thinking about that we are preparing 26 00:01:40,400 --> 00:01:42,920 Speaker 1: a whole person that is going to be sitting in 27 00:01:42,959 --> 00:01:46,160 Speaker 1: front of a whole room full of people, and that 28 00:01:46,360 --> 00:01:50,600 Speaker 1: what teachers teach is not just their subject matter. We 29 00:01:50,720 --> 00:01:54,680 Speaker 1: teach our beliefs, and so if we're not giving our 30 00:01:54,920 --> 00:01:58,160 Speaker 1: future teachers an opportunity to unpack what it is that 31 00:01:58,200 --> 00:02:02,560 Speaker 1: they believe, particularly around race, then they're going to go 32 00:02:02,640 --> 00:02:08,440 Speaker 1: in and teach mainstream, dominant racial ideology to their students. 33 00:02:08,520 --> 00:02:10,959 Speaker 1: And that's what the first part of my book is about, 34 00:02:11,160 --> 00:02:15,040 Speaker 1: is the kind of racist curriculum that is going viral 35 00:02:15,240 --> 00:02:19,320 Speaker 1: right now that is sort of seen as one off 36 00:02:19,960 --> 00:02:24,920 Speaker 1: bad teachers or bad apples, but that really point to 37 00:02:25,000 --> 00:02:30,640 Speaker 1: the permanence of racism and education because, like most of society, 38 00:02:30,800 --> 00:02:34,919 Speaker 1: teachers have not necessarily done that deep work to understand 39 00:02:36,360 --> 00:02:38,320 Speaker 1: they're the way that they think about race, the way 40 00:02:38,360 --> 00:02:43,519 Speaker 1: that they think about difference. You know, I've often believed, 41 00:02:43,639 --> 00:02:47,560 Speaker 1: you know, we did such a grave disservice to everyone, 42 00:02:47,720 --> 00:02:52,080 Speaker 1: not like not just teachers when we said, oh, you know, 43 00:02:52,480 --> 00:02:56,639 Speaker 1: be blind to race, right, like, let's let's let's ignore it, 44 00:02:56,720 --> 00:03:00,600 Speaker 1: let's tolerate it. Right. I grew up in a schooling 45 00:03:00,639 --> 00:03:03,440 Speaker 1: system that was ninety six percent white. I was the 46 00:03:03,480 --> 00:03:06,960 Speaker 1: only black kid most of the time in my classes, 47 00:03:07,560 --> 00:03:14,079 Speaker 1: and that wasn't acknowledged. Andy by the not acknowledging it, 48 00:03:14,080 --> 00:03:17,320 Speaker 1: it was like it was a way to basically say, 49 00:03:17,400 --> 00:03:20,400 Speaker 1: you need to assimilate, right like you are supposed to 50 00:03:20,480 --> 00:03:24,359 Speaker 1: assimilate to be like everybody else, and that the uniqueness 51 00:03:24,360 --> 00:03:28,000 Speaker 1: and the experiences that you're bringing into this place, we 52 00:03:28,120 --> 00:03:32,680 Speaker 1: don't care. Yeah. Yeah, you know for teachers that sort 53 00:03:32,680 --> 00:03:35,240 Speaker 1: of with pride have that I don't see a color. 54 00:03:35,360 --> 00:03:38,280 Speaker 1: I see blue, purple, yellow. You know, it's really based 55 00:03:38,320 --> 00:03:42,640 Speaker 1: in a deficit notion of people of color when you 56 00:03:42,680 --> 00:03:46,080 Speaker 1: hear white teachers say that, because what they're saying is 57 00:03:46,360 --> 00:03:50,240 Speaker 1: if I acknowledge your race, then there's something negative that 58 00:03:50,320 --> 00:03:53,880 Speaker 1: I'm doing. There's some reason why I'm not supposed to 59 00:03:53,920 --> 00:03:56,119 Speaker 1: notice it. And if I'm not supposed to notice it, 60 00:03:56,120 --> 00:03:59,000 Speaker 1: it must be because there's something wrong with it, and 61 00:03:59,080 --> 00:04:01,960 Speaker 1: so there's this fear that really, what I think is 62 00:04:02,000 --> 00:04:05,000 Speaker 1: underneath that is a fear of being called racist. You know, 63 00:04:05,960 --> 00:04:08,839 Speaker 1: that's the fear underneath a lot of white teachers, and 64 00:04:08,920 --> 00:04:16,279 Speaker 1: so they espouse this race evasive kind of mentality. I've 65 00:04:16,279 --> 00:04:18,840 Speaker 1: been moving away from color blind because I'm trying to 66 00:04:18,880 --> 00:04:21,880 Speaker 1: move away, I know, and I actually when you, I know, 67 00:04:22,000 --> 00:04:26,080 Speaker 1: and when you just said race a vase, I'm like, oh, 68 00:04:26,120 --> 00:04:28,720 Speaker 1: that's a better term, right. Yeah, we've been working on 69 00:04:28,760 --> 00:04:30,840 Speaker 1: that one in the field for a while. But I 70 00:04:30,880 --> 00:04:35,599 Speaker 1: think that it's it's really what's underneath that is deficit 71 00:04:35,920 --> 00:04:39,240 Speaker 1: understandings about race. I had a student once who was like, well, 72 00:04:39,279 --> 00:04:42,039 Speaker 1: it's not that I don't want to acknowledge their race, 73 00:04:42,320 --> 00:04:44,479 Speaker 1: but I also, you know, I don't want to be 74 00:04:44,520 --> 00:04:47,640 Speaker 1: making assumptions. It's like, what is the assumption you're afraid 75 00:04:47,680 --> 00:04:51,040 Speaker 1: that you're making. What was the assumption that they were 76 00:04:51,080 --> 00:04:53,840 Speaker 1: afraid that they were making. Well, it was actually very 77 00:04:53,880 --> 00:04:57,359 Speaker 1: confusing when she actually started to talk about when she 78 00:04:57,440 --> 00:04:59,600 Speaker 1: started to get into it, she had a lot of 79 00:05:00,040 --> 00:05:03,240 Speaker 1: confusion around race period. I Mean, there's so much right 80 00:05:03,279 --> 00:05:06,719 Speaker 1: beneath the surface, you know, she started talking about how, well, 81 00:05:06,720 --> 00:05:10,960 Speaker 1: if she gets a tan, then she's darker than some 82 00:05:11,040 --> 00:05:14,840 Speaker 1: of her students, and so I think she was wondering 83 00:05:14,880 --> 00:05:18,159 Speaker 1: if that if she's still white. I mean it was Look, 84 00:05:18,680 --> 00:05:23,920 Speaker 1: this stuff is unexamined and it's well and so if 85 00:05:23,960 --> 00:05:26,480 Speaker 1: we're not giving them a place to talk about this, 86 00:05:27,000 --> 00:05:30,680 Speaker 1: then the classroom is the place where they're experimenting, and 87 00:05:30,880 --> 00:05:33,560 Speaker 1: we see the results of what that looks like when 88 00:05:33,600 --> 00:05:36,839 Speaker 1: we see these, you know, pieces of curriculum that are 89 00:05:37,160 --> 00:05:39,840 Speaker 1: floating around it. You know, as recent as three days ago, 90 00:05:40,000 --> 00:05:44,560 Speaker 1: there was a curriculum out of Wisconsin around I think 91 00:05:44,600 --> 00:05:49,239 Speaker 1: the words were something like something about an escaped slave yep, 92 00:05:49,279 --> 00:05:52,599 Speaker 1: and how would you how I could? I like, for 93 00:05:52,720 --> 00:05:56,800 Speaker 1: the life of me breathe When these stories come out, 94 00:05:57,200 --> 00:06:00,880 Speaker 1: I'm like, how how I know that each sit down 95 00:06:01,080 --> 00:06:04,240 Speaker 1: and they plan out their week, they plan out their unit, 96 00:06:04,480 --> 00:06:07,520 Speaker 1: and I'm thinking to myself, how how does something like 97 00:06:07,640 --> 00:06:10,520 Speaker 1: that happen? And that's where this book came out of, 98 00:06:10,680 --> 00:06:14,320 Speaker 1: really was I was just I started collecting these examples 99 00:06:14,360 --> 00:06:17,760 Speaker 1: like this because I have students, white students who don't 100 00:06:17,800 --> 00:06:21,279 Speaker 1: necessarily believe that racism is still a problem, at least 101 00:06:21,360 --> 00:06:27,120 Speaker 1: pre forty fifth president, I was like pre insurrection and 102 00:06:27,680 --> 00:06:29,560 Speaker 1: you know, this sort of post racial. So I had 103 00:06:29,600 --> 00:06:33,960 Speaker 1: started collecting these examples to show no, this actually is 104 00:06:34,279 --> 00:06:37,719 Speaker 1: a problem. And so after some point it got beyond 105 00:06:37,800 --> 00:06:41,920 Speaker 1: the like shock value and the disturbing value of them, 106 00:06:41,960 --> 00:06:46,839 Speaker 1: and I really started to question, you know, these aren't anomalies, 107 00:06:47,040 --> 00:06:50,480 Speaker 1: These aren't going anywhere, and so what is their function? 108 00:06:51,000 --> 00:06:56,400 Speaker 1: How are these examples actually functioning to a maintain white 109 00:06:56,400 --> 00:07:03,400 Speaker 1: supremacy and be teach the next generation dominant ideology without 110 00:07:03,440 --> 00:07:07,080 Speaker 1: them necessarily even knowing the history. How is it still 111 00:07:07,120 --> 00:07:12,200 Speaker 1: teaching the mainstream ideas around race to the next generation. 112 00:07:12,320 --> 00:07:15,800 Speaker 1: How is it reinvesting in whiteness? And so that's really 113 00:07:15,840 --> 00:07:20,120 Speaker 1: where the book started, was to analyze these examples to 114 00:07:20,200 --> 00:07:24,120 Speaker 1: move past the like disturbing shock value, to see that 115 00:07:24,200 --> 00:07:26,880 Speaker 1: these actually do have a purpose, and their purpose is 116 00:07:26,880 --> 00:07:34,760 Speaker 1: to maintain racial hierarchies. My conversation with Bree resonated with 117 00:07:34,840 --> 00:07:37,960 Speaker 1: me for days after we talked, so I definitely recommend 118 00:07:37,960 --> 00:07:41,120 Speaker 1: taking a listen to the entire conversation. Just five dollars 119 00:07:41,160 --> 00:07:43,680 Speaker 1: gets you access to a growing library of hundreds of 120 00:07:43,680 --> 00:07:46,880 Speaker 1: shows at patreon dot com. Slash woke f with five 121 00:07:47,000 --> 00:07:50,360 Speaker 1: new episodes going up every single week. Another discussion I 122 00:07:50,440 --> 00:07:53,560 Speaker 1: found residence in was with my friend Kiera Johnson, who 123 00:07:53,600 --> 00:07:57,160 Speaker 1: is the new executive director of the National LGBTQ Task Force. 124 00:07:57,280 --> 00:08:00,560 Speaker 1: We'll jump into this conversation with me asking Kiera direction 125 00:08:00,640 --> 00:08:03,760 Speaker 1: she is guiding the task force in after four disastrous 126 00:08:03,880 --> 00:08:08,480 Speaker 1: years of anti LGBTQ policy from the previous heinous administration. 127 00:08:10,960 --> 00:08:13,480 Speaker 1: I'm trying to move away from Trump, but it seems 128 00:08:13,480 --> 00:08:16,040 Speaker 1: like I'm never going to be able to. So, you know, 129 00:08:16,080 --> 00:08:20,200 Speaker 1: what are some of the things entering into this position 130 00:08:20,320 --> 00:08:23,440 Speaker 1: now that you've had to deal with, you know, over 131 00:08:23,480 --> 00:08:25,720 Speaker 1: the last four years. The last four years of the 132 00:08:25,720 --> 00:08:30,320 Speaker 1: Trump administration have been traumatic for so many marginalized communities, 133 00:08:30,520 --> 00:08:34,880 Speaker 1: but particularly for the LGBTQ community. We were the target 134 00:08:34,920 --> 00:08:38,480 Speaker 1: from the beginning, right it was like inauguration in twenty 135 00:08:38,520 --> 00:08:41,440 Speaker 1: seventeen and then boom, right like, we're going to let 136 00:08:41,480 --> 00:08:43,680 Speaker 1: you know exactly what we think about you. We're going 137 00:08:43,720 --> 00:08:46,320 Speaker 1: to remove you from the website right from the White House. 138 00:08:46,360 --> 00:08:50,200 Speaker 1: We're going to you know, rescind protections for LGBTQ youth 139 00:08:50,240 --> 00:08:53,839 Speaker 1: in school. We're going to ban transgender people from the military. 140 00:08:54,040 --> 00:08:57,440 Speaker 1: We're going to take away, you know, any right right 141 00:08:57,559 --> 00:09:00,800 Speaker 1: that had been one we're rolling back. So what are 142 00:09:00,840 --> 00:09:05,040 Speaker 1: some of the things, like the big tackle things that 143 00:09:05,080 --> 00:09:07,280 Speaker 1: came out of the last four years that you're focused 144 00:09:07,280 --> 00:09:11,560 Speaker 1: on now in terms of repair. Yeah, I mean, and 145 00:09:11,720 --> 00:09:13,880 Speaker 1: you named a you know a lot of those things, 146 00:09:13,880 --> 00:09:20,520 Speaker 1: and I think the overarching impact of that is fear 147 00:09:21,200 --> 00:09:26,040 Speaker 1: right depression a whole. You know, I think about people 148 00:09:26,200 --> 00:09:29,480 Speaker 1: like young people who were fourteen years old when he 149 00:09:29,640 --> 00:09:34,600 Speaker 1: came into office, that were perpetually hearing messages that you're 150 00:09:34,760 --> 00:09:39,760 Speaker 1: not human, you don't deserve civil rights, It is okay 151 00:09:39,800 --> 00:09:43,840 Speaker 1: to bully you because you are, you know, you are 152 00:09:43,960 --> 00:09:50,120 Speaker 1: undeserving right of compassion and joy and particularly to participate 153 00:09:50,440 --> 00:09:54,199 Speaker 1: in community and society. And so I mean, honestly, one 154 00:09:54,240 --> 00:09:59,600 Speaker 1: of the big things you're tackling is hopelessness rightful. I mean, 155 00:10:00,080 --> 00:10:03,960 Speaker 1: it was literally sanctioned by the state where you could 156 00:10:04,040 --> 00:10:09,120 Speaker 1: harass and jail trans black women, right like. It was 157 00:10:09,160 --> 00:10:11,760 Speaker 1: just it was like the new norm of the land. 158 00:10:12,280 --> 00:10:14,280 Speaker 1: And so you know, those are the things we're trying 159 00:10:14,320 --> 00:10:18,360 Speaker 1: to undo while also you know, working to be proactive 160 00:10:18,679 --> 00:10:21,720 Speaker 1: in our campaigns and actions. So you know, it was 161 00:10:21,800 --> 00:10:25,640 Speaker 1: really heartening, right to see the repeal of the ban 162 00:10:25,760 --> 00:10:28,480 Speaker 1: of transgender folks in the militancy. You know, one of 163 00:10:28,480 --> 00:10:31,120 Speaker 1: the questions that has been sitting with me is does 164 00:10:31,160 --> 00:10:36,199 Speaker 1: that also mean that people who were discharged do they 165 00:10:36,240 --> 00:10:38,880 Speaker 1: now have access to their pensions? It's like the trickle 166 00:10:38,960 --> 00:10:42,520 Speaker 1: down effect, right, they don't necessarily need or want to 167 00:10:42,559 --> 00:10:47,079 Speaker 1: be reinstated, but do they have access to VA benefits now? Right? So, 168 00:10:47,160 --> 00:10:49,080 Speaker 1: you know, I think we're still trying to figure those 169 00:10:49,120 --> 00:10:52,800 Speaker 1: things out, and I do want to see and I'm 170 00:10:52,840 --> 00:10:55,160 Speaker 1: hopeful that the Biden administration is going to take some 171 00:10:55,320 --> 00:10:59,920 Speaker 1: real concrete action to eradicate this violence against trans women. 172 00:11:00,080 --> 00:11:03,120 Speaker 1: I mean, it's a real epidemic in our country right now. 173 00:11:03,679 --> 00:11:07,679 Speaker 1: And you know, every year, Kia, the numbers are worse 174 00:11:08,120 --> 00:11:11,600 Speaker 1: than the year before, and you know, it is so 175 00:11:13,240 --> 00:11:18,040 Speaker 1: the word disheartening doesn't even begin to describe what is happening. 176 00:11:18,440 --> 00:11:21,000 Speaker 1: Right That to leave your house as a black trans 177 00:11:21,040 --> 00:11:24,360 Speaker 1: woman is in fact taking your life in your own hands, 178 00:11:24,520 --> 00:11:29,560 Speaker 1: you know, Like we have lost so many stalwarts of 179 00:11:29,600 --> 00:11:32,480 Speaker 1: our community as well as those that just are just 180 00:11:32,520 --> 00:11:34,920 Speaker 1: trying to live their life, like just trying to exist. 181 00:11:35,800 --> 00:11:38,400 Speaker 1: And I don't think that we talk about that enough. Yeah, 182 00:11:38,440 --> 00:11:40,800 Speaker 1: And so I think that that should be of top 183 00:11:40,840 --> 00:11:44,280 Speaker 1: of mind for the new administration. Well, and it's just 184 00:11:44,320 --> 00:11:48,280 Speaker 1: a restoration of our humanity, right, like a simple is. 185 00:11:48,520 --> 00:11:51,200 Speaker 1: It's as simple as that. And one of the things 186 00:11:51,880 --> 00:11:54,679 Speaker 1: you know, the movement and the task words in particulars 187 00:11:54,920 --> 00:11:58,920 Speaker 1: is working to further right now, is ensuring federal protections 188 00:11:59,160 --> 00:12:02,160 Speaker 1: right for lgb TQ people. I think a lot of 189 00:12:02,200 --> 00:12:07,360 Speaker 1: folks you know around the country don't know that discrimination 190 00:12:07,440 --> 00:12:11,640 Speaker 1: is still legal based on sexual orientation and gender identity. 191 00:12:12,000 --> 00:12:14,559 Speaker 1: People can be kicked out of housing, right like people 192 00:12:14,559 --> 00:12:17,280 Speaker 1: can be denied healthcare. They can still have their children 193 00:12:17,360 --> 00:12:20,559 Speaker 1: taken away, turned away from a church when that's your 194 00:12:20,600 --> 00:12:23,360 Speaker 1: place of worship, and it's a matter of life and 195 00:12:23,480 --> 00:12:27,040 Speaker 1: death for a lot of people, right. And it's time. 196 00:12:27,960 --> 00:12:33,360 Speaker 1: It's time that we own and acknowledge LGBTQ people as 197 00:12:33,520 --> 00:12:38,319 Speaker 1: full humans deserving of civil and human rights. And it's 198 00:12:38,360 --> 00:12:42,320 Speaker 1: exciting because I think this is the first time in 199 00:12:42,400 --> 00:12:45,960 Speaker 1: recent history where it feels like that might actually be possible, 200 00:12:46,320 --> 00:12:49,280 Speaker 1: right and definitely in the last four and a half years, 201 00:12:49,360 --> 00:12:53,760 Speaker 1: it's the first time I think hope outweighs the fear 202 00:12:54,200 --> 00:13:02,200 Speaker 1: right that people have about what's possible We've got a 203 00:13:02,200 --> 00:13:04,600 Speaker 1: lot of work ahead of us, folks, and it's intelligent, 204 00:13:04,720 --> 00:13:07,800 Speaker 1: vocal leaders like Bree and Kiera who will guide us 205 00:13:07,800 --> 00:13:10,840 Speaker 1: through this turbulent moment in our nation's history. We need 206 00:13:10,880 --> 00:13:13,959 Speaker 1: to stand strong together and fight for what's right and hopefully, 207 00:13:14,120 --> 00:13:17,800 Speaker 1: hopefully we will not just get back to normal, but 208 00:13:17,920 --> 00:13:20,920 Speaker 1: create a better society for ourselves and each other. Thank 209 00:13:20,960 --> 00:13:23,640 Speaker 1: you so much for checking out Woke AF once again. 210 00:13:23,720 --> 00:13:27,240 Speaker 1: You can hear five new hour long episodes every single 211 00:13:27,280 --> 00:13:30,160 Speaker 1: week for just five dollars a month, with extra video 212 00:13:30,280 --> 00:13:34,040 Speaker 1: and written content from yours truly at Patreon dot com 213 00:13:34,120 --> 00:13:37,319 Speaker 1: slash woke AF. We're building a network, a woke a 214 00:13:37,440 --> 00:13:40,120 Speaker 1: f nation, and I would love love for you to 215 00:13:40,200 --> 00:13:43,080 Speaker 1: join us and tell all of your friends. The bigger 216 00:13:43,120 --> 00:13:45,640 Speaker 1: our Woke family gets, the more people we have on 217 00:13:45,640 --> 00:13:48,600 Speaker 1: our side in this fight. As I say every week, 218 00:13:49,120 --> 00:13:51,960 Speaker 1: power to the people and to all the people. Power, 219 00:13:52,280 --> 00:13:54,480 Speaker 1: get woke and stay woke as fuck.