Speaker 1: Welcome to Noble Blood, a production of I Heart Radio
Speaker 1: and Grimm and Mild from Aaron Minkie. Listener discretion is advised.
Speaker 1: In January of eighteen ninety one, a group of fifteen
Speaker 1: prominent nobles and Prussian court elites left for Lynn by
Speaker 1: sleigh ride for a weekend jaunt to Gruenwald castle in
Speaker 1: the woods to the west of the city. They were
Speaker 1: invited there by the Kaiser's sister, Princess Charlotte, and the
Speaker 1: idea was that they would all go and have an
Speaker 1: ice skating party before treating to the lodge for warm
Speaker 1: drinks and general merriment. The party was a triumph, and
Speaker 1: when the skating was over, the group congregated before the
Speaker 1: fireplace at Gruenwald. Red nosed and frost bitten. They removed
Speaker 1: their wet clothing and left them out to dry, and
Speaker 1: then the attendants of the skating party found that they
Speaker 1: could come up with a few fun ways of getting warm.
Speaker 1: The day after they all arrived back at their homes,
Speaker 1: every attendee of the skating trip to Gruenwald received a
Speaker 1: letter in the mail. It had no return address and
Speaker 1: no signature. The handwriting was strange. Someone writing in all
Speaker 1: block letters to disguise their script or to make it
Speaker 1: appear as though someone else was writing it. Each letter
Speaker 1: contained terrible accusations about the person's conduct that evening at Gruenwald,
Speaker 1: lurid sexual accusations, complete with detailed illustrations and pasted pornographic photographs.
Speaker 1: The letters contained specific details and nicknames that only inner
Speaker 1: members of the Kaiser circle could possibly know, and, to
Speaker 1: make matters worse, the accusations were all true. It had
Speaker 1: to have been someone who attended that scape party at Gruenwald,
Speaker 1: but nobody knew who the letters were from. So began
Speaker 1: a scandal that spanned four years, arrests but no finite answers.
Speaker 1: It's a scandal that proves that pettiness and anonymous gossip
Speaker 1: have been along far longer than tabloids and social media.
Speaker 1: The story, which came to be known as the Kudzay
Speaker 1: Affair after the man who was eventually arrested for the letters,
Speaker 1: is a real life version, albeit an x rated one
Speaker 1: of a Mrs Whistledown from Bridgton or the eponymous blog
Speaker 1: from gossip Girl. These letters are our one and only
Speaker 1: source into the lives of the Prussian elite, but the
Speaker 1: consequences leveled in the letters and around the letters themselves
Speaker 1: would eventually be deadly. I'm Danis Schwartz and this is
Speaker 1: Noble Blood. As with any mystery, the first step is
Speaker 1: to introduce the characters involved, or, depending on how you
Speaker 1: look at it, at the suspects. There were fifteen people,
Speaker 1: nine men and six women, who participated in by what
Speaker 1: most accounts referred to as an orgy in which multiple
Speaker 1: people were involved in a number of both hetero and
Speaker 1: homosexual entanglements. But we'll get to those details a little
Speaker 1: bit later. For now, let's just start with one of
Speaker 1: the evening's attendees, Duke Ernst Gunther of Schleswig Holstein. Duke
Speaker 1: Ernest Gunther had a bit of a reputation, to say
Speaker 1: the least. He was nicknamed the Ram for his sexual
Speaker 1: appetite like a ram in spring, and there's even a
Speaker 1: story about the Duke losing one of his elite military medals,
Speaker 1: the one that designated him as a Knight of the
Speaker 1: Black Eagle, in the bed of a Berlin prostitute, who,
Speaker 1: to her credit, took it to the police. Duke Ernst's sister, Augusta,
Speaker 1: was married to Kaiser Wilhelm the Second, which made him
Speaker 1: the Emperor's brother in law. Duke Ernst was married himself
Speaker 1: to a highly connected princess, but that didn't stop the
Speaker 1: Duke from his philandering ways. In fact, his high marriage
Speaker 1: and the even higher marriage of his sister made the
Speaker 1: Duke feel almost bulletproof. There seemed to be no act
Speaker 1: of misbehavior that his money and power couldn't get him
Speaker 1: out of. And a brief aside here for some noble
Speaker 1: blood family tree connectivity. Duke Ernst Gunther's wife, Princess Dorothea,
Speaker 1: was the daughter of Prince Philip of Saxe, Coburg and Gotha,
Speaker 1: who had been one of the close friends of the
Speaker 1: crown Prince Rudolph among the group who discovered his body
Speaker 1: at Marylan and Princess Dorothea was also the granddaughter of
Speaker 1: Leopold the second of Belgium, when we spoke about in
Speaker 1: connection with his bloody genocidal practices in the Congo. But
Speaker 1: back to the actual attendees of this notorious ice skating party,
Speaker 1: there were of course present the Count and Countess von Hohen.
Speaker 1: How the Count Friedrich von Hohen now was notorious for
Speaker 1: his same sex dalliances but if anything, his wife was
Speaker 1: even more notorious in Prussian society. The Countess, nicknamed Lutka,
Speaker 1: was taller than her husband by at least ahead. She
Speaker 1: was also his senior by four years, and in addition
Speaker 1: to being taller than her husband, she was also sportier,
Speaker 1: better at riding horses, and better at finding male lovers.
Speaker 1: The Countess would count among her paramours the future Reich's Chancellor,
Speaker 1: Max von Baden and Herbert von Bis, a social secretary
Speaker 1: in the Foreign Ministry and one of the Countess's former lovers,
Speaker 1: was also in attendance at the skating party. Friedrich Carl
Speaker 1: von Hessen, whose affair with the Countess Hahn now ended
Speaker 1: when he married the Emperor's younger sister, Marguerite, which made
Speaker 1: Friedrich Carl von Hessen another of the Kaiser's brothers in law,
Speaker 1: but the opposite way, which there should be a different
Speaker 1: word for him being married to one of the Kaiser's sisters,
Speaker 1: and not because the Kaiser was married to one of his.
Speaker 1: All of this is to say it was an incredibly intimate,
Speaker 1: connected and intertwined group of nobles who were at Grunwald.
Speaker 1: But it wasn't just nobles at the party. There were
Speaker 1: also a handful of prominent court bureaucrats, including lebre von Kotze,
Speaker 1: the Chamberlain and Master of Ceremonies for the German Imperial Court.
Speaker 1: His name Quotz, has the unfortunate distinction of translating into
Speaker 1: the adjective form of the word puke in English, which
Speaker 1: means that, if you, like me, are unable to speak
Speaker 1: German and are forced to rely on Google Translate for
Speaker 1: a number of primary sources, you will find that his
Speaker 1: name liberal pon Kotze translates in English to write from vomit.
Speaker 1: In the years prior to the notorious get together at
Speaker 1: Gruenwald quotes his life was improving rapidly. He had married
Speaker 1: a woman from an old Brandenburg noble family, and he
Speaker 1: continued to excel in his position as Master of Ceremonies.
Speaker 1: He had the close personal confidence of the Kaiser, and
Speaker 1: even though he wasn't a born noble himself, he inadvertently
Speaker 1: found himself closer to the inner circle of the court
Speaker 1: than many men with more prominent births, including another of
Speaker 1: Chamberlain and Master of Ceremony who also was attending the party,
Speaker 1: a man named Carl von Schrader. Schrader, who had attended
Speaker 1: with his wife, wasn't alone in his jealousy of Kotze,
Speaker 1: but there was very little he could do other than
Speaker 1: wait and hope that eventually quotes might fall out of
Speaker 1: the Kaiser's favor. And then we round out our cast
Speaker 1: of characters with the party's host, Princess Charlotte of Prussia,
Speaker 1: the Kaiser's sister. By the end of the nineteenth century,
Speaker 1: you probably would have been right if you guessed out
Speaker 1: of thin air that any random European prince or princess
Speaker 1: chosen at random was a descendant of Queen Victoria. Princess
Speaker 1: Charlotte of Prussia was the oldest daughter of Queen Victoria's
Speaker 1: oldest daughter, known as Vicky. From the time of the
Speaker 1: Charlotte was born, she was a troublesome child, labeled over
Speaker 1: and over as difficult. She was underweight, with a troublesome digestion,
Speaker 1: and prone to screaming fits. Her mother, Vicki, wrote in
Speaker 1: her diary that Charlotte's quote little mind seems almost too
Speaker 1: active for her body. She is so nervous and sensitive
Speaker 1: and so quick. Her sleep is not so sound as
Speaker 1: it should be, and she is so very thin. Charlotte
Speaker 1: also frequently tantrummed and bit her fingers. A letter to
Speaker 1: Vicky from Queen Victoria read quote tell Charlotte, I was
Speaker 1: appalled to hear of her biting things. Grandmama does not
Speaker 1: like naughty little girls. Vicky did not go easy on
Speaker 1: her daughter. Being difficult is one of the cardinal sins
Speaker 1: of being a princess, and Charlotte suffered from another sin.
Speaker 1: She was plain. Her thinness was just one of a
Speaker 1: number of health is she she suffered from, including headaches
Speaker 1: and insomnia. Charlotte was a mediocre student, without the ability
Speaker 1: to focus on tasks for any extended period of time,
Speaker 1: and by the time she was a teenager, her mother
Speaker 1: just seemed to have had no idea of what to
Speaker 1: do with her. What was there to do with this moody,
Speaker 1: sullen daughter whose behavior would cycle wildly between depression and extraversion.
Speaker 1: It's not a new phenomenon a distant relationship between a
Speaker 1: teenage daughter and her mother, but it's not an easy
Speaker 1: one either, and the two simply didn't get along. When
Speaker 1: Charlotte socialized, she was flirtatious and a notorious gossip, causing trouble.
Speaker 1: Just to see what she could get away with her mother.
Speaker 1: Vickie wrote that Charlotte was quote a wheedling little kitten
Speaker 1: who can be so loving whenever she wants something. As
Speaker 1: soon as Charlee It turned sixteen, she became engaged to
Speaker 1: the air of the Duchy of sax Mine Engine. The
Speaker 1: quickness of the marriage reveals just how eager Charlotte was
Speaker 1: to get out of her family's shadow, to be independent
Speaker 1: and to play grown up, and most importantly, to escape
Speaker 1: the constant needling of her critical mother. In adulthood, her
Speaker 1: more salacious gossipy ways calmed down, but Charlotte was still
Speaker 1: a bon vivant, a drinker and heavy smoker who seemed
Speaker 1: to devote more attention to our parties than to her
Speaker 1: only daughter. She was the perfect person to host a
Speaker 1: simple winter weekend in the country that would inevitably lead
Speaker 1: to debauchery. After the orgy at Grunwald, the letters started
Speaker 1: to arrive. The letters were sent to everyone, addressing everyone
Speaker 1: who had attended at the party in the cruelest and
Speaker 1: most pornographic terms. Allied von Schrader, the wife of one
Speaker 1: of the masters of ceremony. They said that she enjoyed
Speaker 1: lesbian affairs and Prince Albert von Humpt He was a sodomite.
Speaker 1: Even Prussian nobles who hadn't attended the gathering started to
Speaker 1: get mentioned in the letters. Prince Alexander of Prussia seventy
Speaker 1: four years old was accused of quote the most disgraceful
Speaker 1: practices which are said to be the result of a
Speaker 1: weak and perverted mind. The letters included detailed drawings of
Speaker 1: genitalia and pornographic photos, which were pasted over with pictures
Speaker 1: of nobles heads on the bodies of the actors. Princess
Speaker 1: Charlotte was accused of numerous indiscretions, but by far the
Speaker 1: letters harshest target was the Countess Lute and how The
Speaker 1: descriptors of her were owen right nasty, the stuff of
Speaker 1: schoolyard taunts. Everyone got the letters, but for her they
Speaker 1: seemed personal. The letters said that the Countess how and
Speaker 1: now quote feels a tickle that cannot be controlled when
Speaker 1: it is a matter of stealing a young wife's newlywed husband,
Speaker 1: and that she was quote known citywide for the fact
Speaker 1: that she throws herself on the neck of every prince
Speaker 1: and lifts up her skirt without being asked. These letters
Speaker 1: continued tormenting and taunting the elites of Prussian society for
Speaker 1: four years. Over four hundred anonymous letters were written, and
Speaker 1: they probably would have continued as a bafflement, a peculiarity,
Speaker 1: and embarrassment had they not eventually invoked the Emperor. The
Speaker 1: letters never mentioned the Kaiser explicitly, but they began to
Speaker 1: dance around him as a figure obliquely, with certain letters
Speaker 1: writing that he was tempted by the Countess Vonhaven, how
Speaker 1: and that the count had forced his wife to act
Speaker 1: coldly towards the Emperor as to not encourage his affections.
Speaker 1: The Emperor could not believe how presumptuous the Count would
Speaker 1: have been to tell his wife to act differently towards him.
Speaker 1: At a military review, he transferred the Count to hanover
Speaker 1: all but exiling him and the coquettish countess from court.
Speaker 1: At this point, the Emperor decided that these letters had
Speaker 1: gone on long enough. It was an embarrassing scandal that
Speaker 1: he wanted to keep under wraps, but more than that,
Speaker 1: he wanted it to end. Investigators were posted all over Berlin,
Speaker 1: monitoring post boxes and waiting to see who would be
Speaker 1: depositing tell tale letters and then in June, the police
Speaker 1: made a shocking arrest the Emperor's own personal chamberlain, the
Speaker 1: Master of Ceremonies, Liebritt von Kotze. Sure he had been
Speaker 1: on the receiving end of some of the letters, but
Speaker 1: so had every single suspect. Baron Schrader, the rival chamberlain,
Speaker 1: was the one who assisted authorities with the evidence against Kotze.
Speaker 1: This was the smoking gun. At a fashionable club where
Speaker 1: officers suspected that the anonymous letters were being written, they
Speaker 1: found that the pattern on the ink bladder was similar
Speaker 1: to the traces on the ink bladder in Kotze's Master
Speaker 1: of Ceremonies office. It was flimsy evidence, but it was evidence.
Speaker 1: Kotze had traveled to Berlin on Saturday morning from his
Speaker 1: home in Schreitzbershaw in order to be at the ceremony
Speaker 1: for the laying of the corner stone at a new
Speaker 1: cathedral at Lustgarten the next day, but could say never
Speaker 1: made it to the ceremony. As soon as he arrived
Speaker 1: in Berlin, he was taken into custody. It was also
Speaker 1: sudden and so secret that even the prison officials didn't
Speaker 1: know they would be hosting such an exalted guest until
Speaker 1: a royal carriage arrived at the prison door of linden Strauss.
Speaker 1: The New York Times wrote at the time, even if
Speaker 1: the government were inclined to let the scandal drop, the
Speaker 1: time for such action is passed. The documents produced by
Speaker 1: the witnesses so far contain a great mass of disgusting
Speaker 1: and libeliss letters, which certainly suggests the insanity of the writer.
Speaker 1: Coultzy must be tried and must be acquitted as mentally
Speaker 1: unsound or innocent of the charges, or he must be
Speaker 1: punished as the foulest of slanderers. The arrest sent shock
Speaker 1: waves throughout Prussian court and the world. It was written
Speaker 1: about not only in the New York Times, but newspapers
Speaker 1: across Europe. Coats his wife desperately tried to intercede on
Speaker 1: her husband's behalf by appealing unsuccessfully directly to the Kaiser.
Speaker 1: Coatsy's friends argued that he didn't have the drawing skills
Speaker 1: that would have been necessary to produce the fairly impressive
Speaker 1: pornographic doodles on the letters. Some of Coatsi's friends said
Speaker 1: that maybe he was insane. Coats himself maintained that he
Speaker 1: was innocent. The New York Times covered the scandal at
Speaker 1: every step. In one article, under the headline all Germany
Speaker 1: is talking of it, the Times wrote, quote many think
Speaker 1: that Kotze is merely a crank. They based their judgment
Speaker 1: of him on the fact that a few of his
Speaker 1: ancestors have gone crazy and that he often behaved eccentrically
Speaker 1: in his younger days. But fairly quickly after Coates's arrest,
Speaker 1: most people came to the realization that he wasn't the
Speaker 1: anonymous writer. One cabinet member visited him in prison and
Speaker 1: said speaking with Coatzi made him more doubtful than ever
Speaker 1: of Kotz's guilt. The ink water evidence was thin at best,
Speaker 1: and most of the letters didn't even look like they
Speaker 1: could have come from Kotz's hand. In prison, Kotze was
Speaker 1: hosted in the best rooms of linden Strauss, and the
Speaker 1: general who had arrested him had special orders for high
Speaker 1: quality meals to be delivered specially to him daily. And
Speaker 1: then came the ultimate evidence of Kotz's innocence. While he
Speaker 1: was in prison, the letters continued. The New York Times wrote,
Speaker 1: since his arrest, several foul missives have been delivered to
Speaker 1: the Emperor's circle. They charged wives with unfaithfulness and husbands
Speaker 1: with deb auchery. As a quick aside, the letters being
Speaker 1: explicit and well just gossipy mean that most historians and
Speaker 1: no newspapers at the time actually published their contents. The
Speaker 1: letters are mostly just described in euphemistic terms. The first
Speaker 1: and only source that I could find that was brave
Speaker 1: enough to actually share some of the dirty details was
Speaker 1: a German book written only by Wolfgang Whipperman, which, if
Speaker 1: you care to read, was at least for me, a
Speaker 1: fun adventure in pornographic auto translate. The case against Cosa
Speaker 1: was collapsing. A handwriting expert was brought in, who determined
Speaker 1: that Coacha was not in fact the author, and that
Speaker 1: the letters may even have been written by a woman.
Speaker 1: By now, word of the scandal was occupying every single
Speaker 1: club and living room. On April tenth, The New York
Speaker 1: Times reported that the Emperor confirmed the exoneration of Kotze
Speaker 1: after he was acquitted by court martial, but the real
Speaker 1: guilty party still wasn't found, and KOTZEI it was furious
Speaker 1: at those who had destroyed his reputation with their slander.
Speaker 1: For Kotze the scandal was not over. As soon as
Speaker 1: he was free, Kotze challenged the hof Marshal von Reichtak
Speaker 1: to a duel at dawn near the Hallandsea train station.
Speaker 1: The terms of the duel had each man shoot as
Speaker 1: many times as necessary. It took eight gunshots, but eventually
Speaker 1: von Reichschach hit Kotze with a bullet in the thigh.
Speaker 1: Emperor Wilhelm the second sent an ornate Easter egg to
Speaker 1: Kotza's sick bed while he recovered. For him, that was
Speaker 1: the end of this, but it wasn't the end for
Speaker 1: pa On the advice of his lawyer, Coates, A sued
Speaker 1: Baron Schrader for libel for what he believed was the
Speaker 1: fabrication of evidence that led to his arrest. But the
Speaker 1: case was dismissed from court, and coat Say demanded satisfaction,
Speaker 1: even though he had already been shot in the thigh.
Speaker 1: Coutes demanded another duel, this time with Baron Schrader. They
Speaker 1: would stand ten paces apart and keep shooting approaching the
Speaker 1: other until one of them was disabled. On Good Friday, Kotze,
Speaker 1: who had already been found innocent of the letter writing scandal,
Speaker 1: shot Trader in the abdomen and killed him. Only months
Speaker 1: released from his first imprisonment, Cotes was sentenced to another
Speaker 1: two years in prison for the death of Baron Schrader.
Speaker 1: The German government passed a harsh law against dueling, but
Speaker 1: three months later the Emperor pardoned le Brick phone coach.
Speaker 1: We still don't know who wrote the anonymous letters. It's
Speaker 1: possible that if they were given a more comprehensive examination today,
Speaker 1: a scientific analysis could give us the answer. But the
Speaker 1: Kaiser and his family had tried for decades to keep
Speaker 1: the scandal as secret as possible. Alleging debaucheries was one thing,
Speaker 1: it was a far worse thing if common people realized
Speaker 1: that nobles were actually committing them. Kotsai challenging his accusers
Speaker 1: to duels was tragic, but maybe for the Kaiser secretly
Speaker 1: a blessing. High society became so absorbed in the scandal
Speaker 1: of the duels that they forgot the scandal that preceded it.
Speaker 1: The problem with a kingdom trying to maintain nobility emerges
Speaker 1: when it becomes apparent that those people who were born
Speaker 1: into privilege are no fundamentally better than the rest of us.
Speaker 1: Why do some people get to be dukes and duchesses,
Speaker 1: princes and kaisers, and how do they get to hold
Speaker 1: onto that power after the people below them find out
Speaker 1: that the nobles are just spending their time indulging in
Speaker 1: their basest human impulses. The power of a monarchy exists
Speaker 1: only as long as people buy into the belief that
Speaker 1: either the king and his family were chosen by God, or,
Speaker 1: if it's not that overt that they embody certain noble
Speaker 1: ideals that make them worthy of leadership, that may be
Speaker 1: because they have access to education and money and pedigree.
Speaker 1: They're somehow finer than the rest of us in ways
Speaker 1: that are maybe even too subtle to articulate. But then
Speaker 1: fifteen of them get drunk and get naked, and then
Speaker 1: one of them spend the next four years taunting all
Speaker 1: of them with petty adolescent gossip, and one realizes that
Speaker 1: maybe the wealthy and elite are just board common people,
Speaker 1: trapped in a gilded cage with their own making, Devoid
Speaker 1: of purpose and devoid of the satisfaction that can only
Speaker 1: be gleaned from a hard day's work. The nobles are
Speaker 1: forced to invent these petty rivalries to fight duels in
Speaker 1: order to convince themselves that their lives serve the purpose
Speaker 1: of honor and well dignity. That's the story of the
Speaker 1: Codes affair. But keep listening after a brief sponsor break
Speaker 1: to hear a bit about the modern theories about who
Speaker 1: was behind the anonymous letters. So who wasn't Who was
Speaker 1: the one who wrote those scandalous letters to the depressional
Speaker 1: elite accusing them of all sorts of terrible things. The
Speaker 1: most prominent theory is that it was Duke Ernst Gunther,
Speaker 1: the scandalous brother in law of Wilhelm the Second. He
Speaker 1: was the type of person who was almost entirely capable
Speaker 1: of stirring up trouble, and he and the Kaiser did
Speaker 1: have a falling out that eventually led him to being
Speaker 1: banned from the palaces in Berlin and Potsdam. The ostensible
Speaker 1: reason was losing that black eagle metal in the bed
Speaker 1: of a prostitute, But who knows. He could have been
Speaker 1: guilty of, or at least suspected of other crimes. There's
Speaker 1: another dark horse theory about the anonymous letter writer, but
Speaker 1: it seems very unlikely. It is I will say so
Speaker 1: fundamentally appealing that I'm inclined to believe it, even without
Speaker 1: actual evidence. It's that the man behind these letters wasn't
Speaker 1: a man at all, but the Kaiser's sister, Princess Charlotte.
Speaker 1: Some even suggest that she only invited the fifteen nobles
Speaker 1: to the ice skating party come orgy as a trap.
Speaker 1: She was famously prickly, a lifelong chain smoker and lover
Speaker 1: of scandal. The personality seems to fit, but there is
Speaker 1: also some evidence to the contrary. Charlotte was a dear
Speaker 1: friend of Coats's wife, Elizabeth, and after Coats it was
Speaker 1: wounded in his first duel, Charlotte wrote in a letter,
Speaker 1: Coats at last pronounced free, but since yesterday badly wounded,
Speaker 1: his wife is so courageous and behaves admirably. The long
Speaker 1: ten months train must soon tell on her nerves, dear thing,
Speaker 1: how I longed to help and comfort her. Now. It's
Speaker 1: not a letter that Charlotte would have ever imagined would
Speaker 1: go on to the public record, so it doesn't read
Speaker 1: like she's trying to throw us off the scent. But
Speaker 1: who knows. Maybe it was guilt speaking, or maybe the
Speaker 1: letters were written in fits of mania, and when she
Speaker 1: calmed down, she was filled with contrition for the man
Speaker 1: who stepped in to take all of the literal and
Speaker 1: metaphorical fire. Princess Charlotte spent the twilight years of her
Speaker 1: life in treatment for psychosis in the spot town of
Speaker 1: baden Baden. Though as you know, I am remissed to
Speaker 1: diagnose anyone with anything posthumously, historians do believe that her
Speaker 1: symptoms resembled porphyria, the same disorder suffered by her great
Speaker 1: great grandfather, the Mad King George the Third. Noble Blood
Speaker 1: is a production of I Heart Radio and Grimm and
Speaker 1: Mild from Aaron Minky. The show was written and hosted
Speaker 1: by Danis Schwartz and produced by Aaron Manky, Matt Frederick,
Speaker 1: Alex Williams, and Trevor Young. Noble Blood is on social
Speaker 1: media at Noble Blood Tales, and you can learn more
Speaker 1: about the show over at Noble blood Tales dot com.
Speaker 1: For more podcasts from I Heart Radio, visit the I
Speaker 1: Heart a Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen
Speaker 1: to your favorite shows. H