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Speaker 1: If you have your own story of being in a

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Speaker 1: cult or a high control group.

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Speaker 2: Or if you've had experience with manipulation or abusive power

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Speaker 2: that you'd like to share.

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Speaker 1: Leave us a message on our hotline number at three

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Speaker 1: four seven eight six trust.

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Speaker 2: That's three four seven eight six eight seven eight seven eight.

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Speaker 1: Or shoot us an email at trust Me pod at

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Speaker 1: gmail dot com. Trust me, Trust trust Me.

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Speaker 3: I'm like a swat person.

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Speaker 4: I've never lied to you. I've never had a lie.

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Speaker 2: If you think that one person has all the answers,

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Speaker 2: don't welcome to Trust Me. The podcast about cults and

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Speaker 2: extreme belief and manipulation from two Twin Flames who've actually

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Speaker 2: experienced it. I am low Lablanc and I'm Megan Elizabeth.

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Speaker 2: And you guys, we're back. You're back. We took two

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Speaker 2: weeks off, sorry, personal time. We had to catch up

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Speaker 2: a lot of stuff was going on in our lives.

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Speaker 2: But now we are back and better than ever, or

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Speaker 2: maybe worse. I guess we'll see better better. So our

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Speaker 2: guests today, our journalist Alice and a woman named Lorraine,

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Speaker 2: former member of the Twin Flames universe. Both of them

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Speaker 2: appear in the Amazon Docus series desperately seeking soulmate, escaping

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Speaker 2: twin Flames Universe, and we're going to talk about the

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Speaker 2: online community that twin Flame Ascension was and what attracted

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Speaker 2: people to it, How the founders, Jeff and Schileia got

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Speaker 2: more controlling over time, openly subjecting their members to verbal

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Speaker 2: abuse on video, and the way they urged members to

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Speaker 2: pursue their twin flame even if the other party didn't

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Speaker 2: consent to it, which led to a few restraining orders.

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Speaker 1: We'll discuss how the group was set up like an MLM,

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Speaker 1: with a few people at the top making a ton

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Speaker 1: of money and nobody else, how Jeff and Schilea began

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Speaker 1: deciding which members of the group were each other's twin flames,

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Speaker 1: whether they liked it or not, and how they tried

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Speaker 1: coercing members into changing their gender identities to create the

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Speaker 1: illusion that twin Flame Universe was working.

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Speaker 2: That's right before we dive into that and other things. Megan,

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Speaker 2: can you tell me your cultyes thing this week?

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Speaker 1: I certainly can. This one has actually a kind of

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Speaker 1: happy ending. It's something that's been happening in the news.

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Speaker 1: A Mormon woman kidnapped her son. His name was Blaize.

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Speaker 1: She believed that he is the Davidian prophet and Mormonism.

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Speaker 1: Have you ever heard about this growing up?

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Speaker 2: No, the profit when I was growing up, and I

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Speaker 2: think in mainstream Mormonism the prophet like comes from the

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Speaker 2: Quorum of the Twelve and there's like a whole process.

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Speaker 5: Yes, yeah, totally.

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Speaker 1: So I've been researching this and there's some different accounts,

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Speaker 1: but it's like the profit of the prophet essentially. So

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Speaker 1: this woman has been prepping and getting sucked into these

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Speaker 1: very doomsday things, which a lot of people have been

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Speaker 1: doing because this war happening in the Middle East right

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Speaker 1: now actually leads people into like the Book of Revelations

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Speaker 1: and all of these prophecies coming true.

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Speaker 5: You know.

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Speaker 1: So people have seen this uptick of prepping. And again

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Speaker 1: we always talk about how nothing wrong with prepping. I

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Speaker 1: wish I prepping, yeah, prepping sex.

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Speaker 6: I wish I had a.

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Speaker 5: Bunker somewhere so badly.

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Speaker 1: But you know, when it becomes your whole life and

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Speaker 1: you decide to kidnap your son because he's this prophet

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Speaker 1: and take him to Alaska without his father's consent, it

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Speaker 1: becomes a problem. And he is a football player, he's large.

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Speaker 1: They didn't know the police. His father, who was not

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Speaker 1: a part of this, didn't know how they planned on

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Speaker 1: keeping him subdued or like not running away because I mean,

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Speaker 1: he was not wanting to participate.

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Speaker 2: Crazy.

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Speaker 5: Yeah.

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Speaker 6: So the good.

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Speaker 1: News is when the allotted time for the world to

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Speaker 1: end or for him to become the prophet came and

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Speaker 1: he didn't and it didn't endure whatever the story was

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Speaker 1: supposed to be, she did return home with the son.

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Speaker 2: How do you know when the profit time arrives that

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Speaker 2: the profit status has been achieved?

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Speaker 1: I mean, I think you world was supposed to okay,

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Speaker 1: I'm supposed to end, supposed to end, okay.

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Speaker 2: Right, you know, it's not like you start like glowing.

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Speaker 5: Listen, you could ask her. She has a lot of time.

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Speaker 5: I think she's in jail right now.

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Speaker 1: I really did think we had another laur Valo case

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Speaker 1: on our hands. I did not think this young man

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Speaker 1: was ever going to be seen alive again.

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Speaker 2: Oh man, the world is making everybody crazy. But obviously

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Speaker 2: that's the next level of crazy. I'm glad he's okay,

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Speaker 2: I'm glad.

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Speaker 1: He's even Is it crazy like Mormonism teaches this shit?

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Speaker 2: Well, I mean, as we talk about a lot so

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Speaker 2: many Christian religions teach this shit. Yeah, this is we're

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Speaker 2: primed to think that the end of the world is

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Speaker 2: nigh at any moment, and like that's a good thing.

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Speaker 7: Rest Jesus is coming.

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Speaker 1: Right, It's beautiful because now everybody can just meet in

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Speaker 1: the middle where like the world is actually ending to

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Speaker 1: atheists too now, so we can all just agree the

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Speaker 1: world is ending.

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Speaker 2: Except that some of us believe we should try to

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Speaker 2: stop it from right, right, that's the problem escalating.

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Speaker 5: So I'm really.

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Speaker 1: Glad that that had a happy ending. However, Lolo, what's

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Speaker 1: your Cultius thing of the week?

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Speaker 2: I do have a bit of a speech, but I'm

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Speaker 2: going to launch into here. You guys, if you want

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Speaker 2: to go straight to twin Flames and don't want to

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Speaker 2: hear about upsetting things, then feel free to skip ahead

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Speaker 2: or right now.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, and I hope people stick around because I think

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Speaker 1: it's important for people who have different beliefs to have conversations,

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Speaker 1: and that's the only way we're going to move forward.

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Speaker 2: So well, this has been a struggle to figure out

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Speaker 2: how to talk about. I've been talking about it a

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Speaker 2: little bit on my social media, but the current Israel

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Speaker 2: Palestine situation has been very upsetting too many of us

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Speaker 2: for many different reasons. For anyone who maybe hasn't been

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Speaker 2: following the situation, I'm not going to get into the

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Speaker 2: history of Palestine and Israel. God knows. That's a different podcast.

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Speaker 2: If you want to learn more, I've found Azra Client's

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Speaker 2: podcast helpful. There are lots of books. Basically, on October seventh,

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Speaker 2: Hamas carried out a terrorist attack on innocent civilians in Israel.

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Speaker 2: Twelve hundred people were killed in the most brutal fashion imaginable,

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Speaker 2: and it was all filmed. Several thousand more were wounded,

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Speaker 2: and over two hundred people were taken as hostages. This

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Speaker 2: was a horrific event. I have tried to wrap my

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Speaker 2: head around it. It's just a horrible thing. It's a

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Speaker 2: horrible thing. In response, Israel began a bombing campaign, and

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Speaker 2: Israel dropped about six thousand bombs on Gaza in the

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Speaker 2: first week, which is more than the US dropped on

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Speaker 2: Afghanistan in any single year of twenty years of war.

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Speaker 2: Because Israel controls what goes in and out of Gaza

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Speaker 2: for reasons that you can google. They then engaged in

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Speaker 2: what many human rights experts are referring to its collective

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Speaker 2: punishment with holding water, electricity, medication, fuel, and food, initially

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Speaker 2: refusing to allow any aid in. Now there's some, but

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Speaker 2: it's still significantly less than before this began. The bombing

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Speaker 2: has only continued its hit residential buildings, refugee camps, a school,

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Speaker 2: medical centers. A total of over eleven thousand people are

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Speaker 2: dead as of today when I'm recording this, the vast

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Speaker 2: majority of whom are civilians. That is why there has

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Speaker 2: been an international outcry about this. Under international law, you

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Speaker 2: are supposed to make every effort to protect civilians and

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Speaker 2: not just flatten entire neighborhoods and entire cities and kill

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Speaker 2: just thousands of people, even if you are targeting a

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Speaker 2: legitimate target. On top of this basic fact that an inordinate, inhumane,

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Speaker 2: widely denounced number of innocent civilians have died, we are

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Speaker 2: seeing this incredible division on social media. So I'm going

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Speaker 2: to just give you guys some context for what I

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Speaker 2: have been seeing on my social media feed that has

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Speaker 2: led me to the conclusion that I have and trusting.

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Speaker 5: Okay, I follow a lot.

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Speaker 2: Of social justice accounts. I follow news organizations that like

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Speaker 2: Democracy Now that focus on like the underserved stories that

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Speaker 2: the mainstream media maybe isn't covering, still fact based, still

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Speaker 2: actual legitimate news organizations. So because of that, what I

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Speaker 2: see on my feed is video after video after video

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Speaker 2: after video of Palestinian families screaming, dead children, hospitals losing power,

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Speaker 2: people just in utter, utter pain, suffering, terror, destruction, just

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Speaker 2: the worst fucking shit you've ever seen. So I am

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Speaker 2: seeing in the most visceral possible way with the Palestinian

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Speaker 2: people are experiencing and suffering at the hands of the

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Speaker 2: Israeli military. Therefore, it's been important to me to speak

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Speaker 2: out against this, especially considering our government is supporting it

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Speaker 2: economically as well as just ideologically. And then my context

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Speaker 2: for this previously was somebody who you know, for whom

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Speaker 2: social justice work is important. So I'm seeing this, and

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Speaker 2: I already had a conception of Palestinas being occupied by

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Speaker 2: Israel in a way that was very unjust to Palestinians.

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Speaker 2: What I was not seeing on my timeline is what

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Speaker 2: many of my Jewish friends have been seeing on their timelines,

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Speaker 2: which is these horrific videos that Hamas had taken of

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Speaker 2: the slaughtering that they did of Israeli civilians and the

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Speaker 2: just utter violence and grotesque sort of flaunting of that

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Speaker 2: as well as you know you seeing like burning of

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Speaker 2: stars of David, you're seeing like extreme anti Semitic rhetoric.

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Speaker 2: And to be clear, when I say anti Semitic rhetoric,

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Speaker 2: I don't mean just saying free Palestine, are talking about

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Speaker 2: freeing Palestinian people, because that is a bad faith interpretation

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Speaker 2: of that in my opinion, But I mean actual anti

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Speaker 2: Semitic rhetoric. It is real, it is happening. So other

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Speaker 2: people are seeing all this very scary, genuine anti semitism

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Speaker 2: that I'm not seeing on my timeline. So I am

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Speaker 2: conceiving of this whole thing very very differently than some

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Speaker 2: of my friends. We're all being shown content based on

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Speaker 2: what we already believe and what we already think and feel,

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Speaker 2: so we're not getting the full picture of what's happening necessarily.

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Speaker 2: I'm just going to like do a quick list of

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Speaker 2: some of the culty things that I am seeing in

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Speaker 2: the way people are engaging with social media and thinking

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Speaker 2: right now, because everyone is so heated and as we know,

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Speaker 2: like heightened feelings all to our thinking. They literally alter

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Speaker 2: our ability to reason and of course I'm not exempt.

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Speaker 2: We all do this. Here's a big one. Tribalism us

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Speaker 2: versus them mentality. Cultic thinking operates in the binary. It

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Speaker 2: operates in black and white. It operates in good versus evil.

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Speaker 2: It strips the context from any human or any group

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Speaker 2: of humans and turns them into the bad guys and

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Speaker 2: us into the good guys. The people are not their government.

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Speaker 2: The people are never all evil. That is not a

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Speaker 2: thing thought terminating cliches. You know, if I hear the

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Speaker 2: phrase human shields one more time to justify killing eleven

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Speaker 2: thousand people, then I like, I don't know what to

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Speaker 2: say to you, But it is happening on both sides.

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Speaker 2: Lots of false binaries make presenting it as though there's

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Speaker 2: only the choice of doing nothing or fucking destroy everyone.

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Speaker 2: Those aren't the only two choices. You can defend your

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Speaker 2: country and your people without totally annihilating and other people.

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Speaker 2: I think that that's possible. That's a reality that exists.

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Speaker 2: We're seeing misinformation everywhere, un reliable memes being taken as

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Speaker 2: a credible news, but also being completely resistant to information

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Speaker 2: that comes from sources that were previously considered trustworthy and

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Speaker 2: reliable just because they conflict with your authority source. Oh well,

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Speaker 2: actually that outlet hates us. That outlet is evil. So

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Speaker 2: I'm going to refuse to take in any information that

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Speaker 2: conflicts with my current worldview. That is culti as shit. Though,

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Speaker 2: of course we should always be critical of the way

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Speaker 2: that media frames their stories and what they withhold and

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Speaker 2: what they include obviously paints a very specific picture. We

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Speaker 2: should be critical of that, But at a certain point

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Speaker 2: it can amount to putting your fingers in your ears

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Speaker 2: and humming really loud. I'm seeing people justify violence that

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Speaker 2: under normal circumstances they would normally consider morally abhorrent, both

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Speaker 2: in support of Hamas's actions and in support of the

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Speaker 2: Israeli government's actions. If you're against violence and you are

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Speaker 2: for human rights, you can't selectively apply it. It has

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Speaker 2: to apply to everyone. Sure, we're flattening each other and

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Speaker 2: we're assuming that we're all the other people must be evil,

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Speaker 2: and that's just not fucking true. Yeah, what is true

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Speaker 2: is that there is a horrible thing that's happening.

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Speaker 5: Haamas is evil.

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Speaker 2: Nothing justifies what they did on October seven that it

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Speaker 2: cannot be justified, for sure. But if I'm against those

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Speaker 2: innocent people dying. I cannot stand for I understand thousands

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Speaker 2: upon thousands of innocent people dying who are of a

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Speaker 2: different group.

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Speaker 1: I think I see it more as revenge, which I

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Speaker 1: think lights up the brain in an entirely different way.

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Speaker 1: It is culty, but it's also like what we saw

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Speaker 1: after nine to eleven. I just saw the most horrific

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Speaker 1: shit I've ever seen in my entire life. I'm coming

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Speaker 1: for whoever did this, Like.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and we know that that led to a lot

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Speaker 2: of really fucked up things. Islamophobia, which is happening now

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Speaker 2: in addition to the anti Semitism. It's not one or

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Speaker 2: the other, they are both happening. I learned about this

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Speaker 2: cognitive bias, which I guess I kind of knew about before,

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Speaker 2: but I just didn't know what the name was. Called

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Speaker 2: compassion fade, which means there is a lot of good

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Speaker 2: research to show that we care about the suffering of

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Speaker 2: one person significantly more than a group of people, and

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Speaker 2: that compassion lowers as the number of people suffering grows.

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Speaker 2: People are less likely to donate to a cause when

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Speaker 2: it's two people than when it's one person. So I'm

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Speaker 2: going to just use a quote from this study that

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Speaker 2: I was looking at. Left to its own devices, moral

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Speaker 2: intuition will likely favor individual victims and underreact to large

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Speaker 2: scale crises. Our sizeable capacity to care for others may

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Speaker 2: not be engaged unless we find ways to overcome compassion fade.

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Speaker 2: So in other words, it's so much harder to conceive

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Speaker 2: of eleven thousand people, right, And I get it like

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Speaker 2: it is. It's overwhelming. You can't even begin to understand.

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Speaker 2: And I've gotten DMS being like, well, that's a Hamas number.

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Speaker 2: Feel free to google this on your own, y'all, But

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Speaker 2: that number comes from the Ministry of Health, which has

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Speaker 2: historically given reasonably accurate numbers. It's been trusted by our

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Speaker 2: own government as recently as this year. And just so

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Speaker 2: you know, this isn't social media bias only. I did

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Speaker 2: look up a number of human rights organizations to see

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Speaker 2: what they were saying about what's happening in Gaza, and

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Speaker 2: here are some quotes. International Committee of the Red Cross

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Speaker 2: said the human suffering is shocking. Doctors Without Borders said

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Speaker 2: one of the worst humanitarian catastrophes we've ever seen. Amnesty

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Speaker 2: International said unprecedented civilian suffering. The World Health organization said

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Speaker 2: we're running out of words to describe the horror. The

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Speaker 2: UN chief called it a graveyard for children and a

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Speaker 2: living nightmare. Save the Children said grave violations of epic proportions.

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Speaker 2: A group of Israel based human rights organization called it

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Speaker 2: indiscriminate harming of civilian lives now. That includes Amnesty International, Israel,

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Speaker 2: Physicians for Human Rights, Israel, Rabbis for Human Rights, many more.

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Speaker 2: Human Rights Watch called it devastating consequences for civilians. This

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Speaker 2: is happening. It is tempting to get sucked into tribalism.

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Speaker 2: It is tempting to get sucked into like defending your

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Speaker 2: group because there is a lot of very justified fear

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Speaker 2: that's happening right now. There's a lot of very justified

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Speaker 2: rage that's happening right now. But like, we can't turn

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Speaker 2: against each other, and we have to be able to

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Speaker 2: separate people from governments and critique authorities. That's the whole

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Speaker 2: fucking thing, man.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, in my opinion, there's a whole podcast here.

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Speaker 1: There's just so much to say that I would want

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Speaker 1: to say to that, but I fucking hate that this

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Speaker 1: is happening.

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Speaker 2: Same same, you know, listen there's no way we could

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Speaker 2: tackle all of it in this fucking intro right now.

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Speaker 2: But so much time has passed since it started that

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Speaker 2: I felt irresponsible saying nothing today. And I just firmly

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Speaker 2: believe that we can stand against anti Semitism, and we

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Speaker 2: can stand against hate, and we can also stand against

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Speaker 2: the unnecessary and totally fucked up I can't think of

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Speaker 2: another way to say it, destruction of civilian life of

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Speaker 2: babies and hospitals of mothers, of people who had nothing

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Speaker 2: to do with a fucked up also Hamas attack. We

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Speaker 2: can just do both. And if you want to call

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Speaker 2: your representative to tell them that you do not approve

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Speaker 2: of this because the United States is helping fund these attacks,

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Speaker 2: you can use the five Calls app to call your reps.

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Speaker 1: And I think it's important to note I saw a

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Speaker 1: meme yesterday that was like friendship is about disagreeing about things,

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Speaker 1: and it was like two people being like, I like

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Speaker 1: different pizza, not about issues like this, And the meme

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Speaker 1: was essentially saying like, you can have friends who you

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Speaker 1: disagree with on you know, like what's fashionable or what

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Speaker 1: do you like to eat or whatever, but when it

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Speaker 1: comes to stuff like this, you can't have people who

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Speaker 1: are friends who are on two opposite sides.

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Speaker 5: And I don't think that's true.

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Speaker 1: I think you and I see things very differently, and

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Speaker 1: I think a lot of our friends and our circle

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Speaker 1: see things very differently. And we all want the same thing,

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Speaker 1: which is peace, and we're all willing to listen to

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Speaker 1: each other and hear each other out.

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Speaker 5: And that's the only non.

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Speaker 1: Cult behavior we have left for like humanity, which we

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Speaker 1: had all day to talk about it. I think this

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Speaker 1: episode is really interesting too, because it gives a really

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Speaker 1: great perspective and to what can happen when you get

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Speaker 1: into echo chambers like people did and the twin Plane universe.

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Speaker 1: So I can't wait for everyone to hear this episode.

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Speaker 2: Let's go to it now.

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Speaker 1: This show is sponsored by Betterhelp.

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Speaker 1: That's Better Help h e LP dot com slash Trust.

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Speaker 2: Welcome Alice and Lorraine to trust Me. Thank you so

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Speaker 2: much for joining us today.

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Speaker 7: Thanks for having me, thanks for having us.

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Speaker 2: We recognize both of your faces because we were just

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Speaker 2: watching the docuseries Desperately Seeking Soulmate about the Twin Flames

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Speaker 2: Universe cults. Alice, let's start with you. Can you just

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Speaker 2: tell us how you first discovered this story.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, So, I'm a reporter and I've been a journalist

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Speaker 3: for over ten years, and I'm really interested in stories

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Speaker 3: about internet culture as well as love and intimacy. And

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Speaker 3: so I was actually looking for ideas that were about

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Speaker 3: spiritual communities and I was on Readit and I saw

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Speaker 3: some posts about this group called Twin Flames Universe, and

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Speaker 3: there were such a crazy range of opinions about it.

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Speaker 3: Some people were saying it was a cult. And then

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Speaker 3: when I went into you know, I actually joined the

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Speaker 3: private Facebook group of this online spiritual community and everyone

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Speaker 3: and there were a lot of people there saying that

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Speaker 3: it had actually you know, they had found love, their

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Speaker 3: lives were so much better, and they were thanking these

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Speaker 3: two founders, Jeff and Shalia, And so there was just

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Speaker 3: so much obsession about this topic and there had been

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Speaker 3: nothing written about it at the time, and so I

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Speaker 3: knew that that was the idea for my next article.

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Speaker 1: Was there any like Facebook questions that you had to

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Speaker 1: answer to?

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Speaker 4: Get into the group.

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Speaker 7: I don't think so.

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Speaker 3: I don't recall I joined under my name and it so, yeah,

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Speaker 3: I joined under my own Facebook profile, my real name,

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Speaker 3: everything like that. And I think if there was it

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Speaker 3: was more just like why are you interested in twin flames?

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Speaker 3: And I found I probably would have said something like

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Speaker 3: I've been watching definitially as YouTube videos.

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Speaker 4: Right.

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Speaker 3: If there was anything, it was very minimal. I remember

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Speaker 3: being accepted into the group almost immediately.

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Speaker 2: Watching the doc enlightened me to how much of a

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Speaker 2: thing the idea of a twin flame is because I

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Speaker 2: just really had no idea. Can you kind of explain that?

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Speaker 8: Right?

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Speaker 7: Yeah?

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Speaker 8: Yeah, so, I mean the way that they explained it

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Speaker 8: to me it's been a while now, is just, you know,

403
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Speaker 8: your twin flame is the exact soul match of you,

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Speaker 8: like sort of like an accelerated version of soulmates. They're

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Speaker 8: sort of you're destined to be with them and this

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Speaker 8: sort of process and reaching them and finding them on

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Speaker 8: this planet, and you're supposed to meet together in union

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Speaker 8: and do work together and hopefully ascend or help the

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Speaker 8: world ascend in some sort of way.

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Speaker 2: Everyone has only one twin flame on Earth?

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Speaker 8: Is that the idea, Well, that was the idea, but obviously.

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Speaker 4: And Jeff and Cha are twin Flames just to be clear, Yeah,

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Speaker 4: they are.

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Speaker 6: Self confirmed twin Flames.

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Speaker 2: So Jeff and Julia are the founders, the leaders of

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Speaker 2: this group, Lorraine, When you discovered twin Flames Universe, was

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Speaker 2: it through videos of them or how did you kind

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Speaker 2: of find it?

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Speaker 8: I think for me, like there's so much online. When

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Speaker 8: I saw this, I was going through a really tough breakup,

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Speaker 8: and I saw these quirky, normal looking people kind of

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Speaker 8: talking about love being about yourself. They use the mirror exercise,

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Speaker 8: and it was mainly about self development. For me, for

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Speaker 8: anyone who knows me, that's something that's really sort of

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Speaker 8: a big deal to who I am. And so it

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Speaker 8: was kind of the idea of if you fall in

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Speaker 8: love with yourself everything, or just be attracted to you

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Speaker 8: in life, you know, the secret law of attraction.

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Speaker 6: It kind of made sense to me in that way.

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Speaker 8: They were using a lot of these I guess sort

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Speaker 8: of spiritual buzzwords that already exist within the spiritual community

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Speaker 8: that I could relate to, and I'd grown up in

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Speaker 8: the church.

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Speaker 6: It was quite easy for me to understand the way

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Speaker 6: that they were teaching things.

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Speaker 2: So your goal wasn't necessarily love like finding a partner,

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Speaker 2: was it. It was more like self help kind of stuff.

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Speaker 6: Yeah, yeah, I was in.

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Speaker 8: My first consultation was actually not with Jeff and Sally,

440
00:22:43,160 --> 00:22:46,320
Speaker 8: it was one of their coaches, and she just seems

441
00:22:46,400 --> 00:22:50,719
Speaker 8: so kind and so peaceful, and I thought, if she's

442
00:22:51,080 --> 00:22:53,880
Speaker 8: having a great time and she's surrounded by a community

443
00:22:53,880 --> 00:22:56,119
Speaker 8: of people that also want to self develop, this is

444
00:22:56,119 --> 00:22:57,640
Speaker 8: something I wanted to be a part of.

445
00:22:58,000 --> 00:23:00,479
Speaker 4: I mean, it feels like the twin point universal feeling

446
00:23:00,520 --> 00:23:04,080
Speaker 4: things like your health, your wealth, your trauma, like it

447
00:23:04,160 --> 00:23:07,199
Speaker 4: kind of covers it all. So that's worth noting.

448
00:23:07,600 --> 00:23:09,600
Speaker 2: Yeah, Alice, can you talk about that a little bit, like,

449
00:23:09,680 --> 00:23:13,240
Speaker 2: do the majority of members that you found joined because

450
00:23:13,240 --> 00:23:16,440
Speaker 2: of love or just some other general need for community.

451
00:23:16,880 --> 00:23:17,800
Speaker 7: I think it's both.

452
00:23:17,960 --> 00:23:21,040
Speaker 3: I would say a big theme among almost all of

453
00:23:21,040 --> 00:23:25,240
Speaker 3: the people I talked to was looking for some answers

454
00:23:25,280 --> 00:23:29,200
Speaker 3: about a problem related to love. But I also think

455
00:23:29,280 --> 00:23:32,800
Speaker 3: that maybe that's what made them find Jeff and Shalia.

456
00:23:32,880 --> 00:23:36,040
Speaker 3: Often that's what leads people to google, like to even

457
00:23:36,119 --> 00:23:38,560
Speaker 3: come across the concept of twin flames as they're googling

458
00:23:38,560 --> 00:23:41,000
Speaker 3: something about love or romance, or maybe their friend tells

459
00:23:41,040 --> 00:23:42,359
Speaker 3: them something about that topic.

460
00:23:42,760 --> 00:23:43,320
Speaker 7: But then what.

461
00:23:43,440 --> 00:23:46,960
Speaker 3: Keeps people engaged and what makes people go further in

462
00:23:47,080 --> 00:23:50,199
Speaker 3: joining the group is all of these other dimensions in

463
00:23:50,240 --> 00:23:52,560
Speaker 3: which Jeff andicially a claim to also be able to

464
00:23:52,560 --> 00:23:56,400
Speaker 3: fix your life. So that's another thing that is very appealing.

465
00:23:56,840 --> 00:24:00,639
Speaker 2: It seems so dangerous, just like inherently this idea of

466
00:24:00,640 --> 00:24:02,800
Speaker 2: a twin flame. Well, first of all, the idea of

467
00:24:02,840 --> 00:24:05,080
Speaker 2: a twin flame, in my opinion, is dangerous because then

468
00:24:05,119 --> 00:24:07,360
Speaker 2: you're there's so much pressure on anyone that you date

469
00:24:07,600 --> 00:24:10,040
Speaker 2: to be the one person, which of course is not

470
00:24:10,080 --> 00:24:13,240
Speaker 2: realistic in not how life works. But also this idea

471
00:24:13,280 --> 00:24:15,280
Speaker 2: that like it's going to fulfill you, that you if

472
00:24:15,320 --> 00:24:17,440
Speaker 2: you find a twin flame, if you find your person, ah,

473
00:24:17,600 --> 00:24:20,560
Speaker 2: now everything in your life has an answer, which again

474
00:24:20,880 --> 00:24:23,960
Speaker 2: very unhealthy dynamic for any relationship.

475
00:24:24,000 --> 00:24:26,280
Speaker 4: Well, yeah, I mean I wanted to ask Lauren what

476
00:24:26,800 --> 00:24:28,960
Speaker 4: looks like when you're dating somebody and you're like, you're

477
00:24:29,040 --> 00:24:32,320
Speaker 4: my twin flame, while also admitting a twin flame is

478
00:24:32,320 --> 00:24:34,840
Speaker 4: something I still totally believe that.

479
00:24:36,520 --> 00:24:37,160
Speaker 8: I don't.

480
00:24:37,320 --> 00:24:40,600
Speaker 9: I know she doesn't, so like we differ all the

481
00:24:40,640 --> 00:24:43,359
Speaker 9: time on things, but I'm like, I don't think you

482
00:24:43,400 --> 00:24:46,359
Speaker 9: should spend your life searching for the other half of

483
00:24:46,400 --> 00:24:48,199
Speaker 9: you and that it's.

484
00:24:47,680 --> 00:24:49,760
Speaker 2: Like that you need someone to complete you.

485
00:24:50,119 --> 00:24:53,040
Speaker 4: Totally not. But I am like, oh, there's probably some

486
00:24:53,240 --> 00:24:57,359
Speaker 4: karmic person that's lifetimes and whatever, and Lola and I

487
00:24:57,440 --> 00:25:01,879
Speaker 4: have totally different opinions on all. So also, say, Lauren,

488
00:25:02,000 --> 00:25:04,880
Speaker 4: when you're on a date with somebody in this because

489
00:25:04,880 --> 00:25:07,919
Speaker 4: you started dating I believe the same person that you

490
00:25:07,920 --> 00:25:11,800
Speaker 4: were dating before you joined twin Flame, and you're like, yeah,

491
00:25:11,920 --> 00:25:14,440
Speaker 4: this coming back around, this is better. I mean, what

492
00:25:14,480 --> 00:25:17,359
Speaker 4: does the pressure feel like on that relationship?

493
00:25:19,000 --> 00:25:23,120
Speaker 8: Well, I mean the relationship to begin with was already

494
00:25:23,240 --> 00:25:29,600
Speaker 8: quite toxic. He cheated on me, We were already going

495
00:25:29,640 --> 00:25:32,320
Speaker 8: through trouble, like I was going through my own trauma.

496
00:25:32,440 --> 00:25:35,080
Speaker 8: I was at university. There was so many things going on,

497
00:25:35,720 --> 00:25:39,200
Speaker 8: and I actually met somebody else. So when I met

498
00:25:39,200 --> 00:25:43,640
Speaker 8: somebody else that I felt was actually my true twin flame, who.

499
00:25:43,640 --> 00:25:44,320
Speaker 2: She says in a.

500
00:25:46,720 --> 00:25:51,879
Speaker 8: Funnily enough was had very similar life experiences to me,

501
00:25:52,160 --> 00:25:54,720
Speaker 8: had grown up very similar to the way that I had,

502
00:25:55,480 --> 00:26:00,040
Speaker 8: and it was very kind of serendipitous the synchronicities, and

503
00:26:00,119 --> 00:26:04,280
Speaker 8: I met this other guy were crazy. So what actually

504
00:26:04,320 --> 00:26:08,080
Speaker 8: happened made me. Both of these guys joined the group.

505
00:26:07,880 --> 00:26:09,560
Speaker 7: By the way, oh wow.

506
00:26:10,200 --> 00:26:12,200
Speaker 8: But the guy that I felt was my true twin

507
00:26:12,280 --> 00:26:16,040
Speaker 8: flame didn't work out for Jeff andially as pr because

508
00:26:16,040 --> 00:26:21,240
Speaker 8: they'd already confirmed the first guy, and when the second

509
00:26:21,280 --> 00:26:24,040
Speaker 8: guy came in, they were saying, no, no, no, this

510
00:26:24,080 --> 00:26:27,160
Speaker 8: is not your twin flame. He's part of your soul family.

511
00:26:27,680 --> 00:26:32,840
Speaker 8: They actually told him when he joined some classes with

512
00:26:33,680 --> 00:26:37,000
Speaker 8: sension coaching and things like that his father was going

513
00:26:37,040 --> 00:26:40,080
Speaker 8: through cancer at the time, that he had manifested his

514
00:26:40,080 --> 00:26:45,000
Speaker 8: father's cancer. Oh my god, and that this was something

515
00:26:45,040 --> 00:26:47,719
Speaker 8: that he was doing. Where was he being cancer in

516
00:26:47,760 --> 00:26:50,080
Speaker 8: his life? So it caused a lot of turmoil for

517
00:26:50,160 --> 00:26:53,240
Speaker 8: me because I couldn't understand why Jeff Andally were the

518
00:26:53,280 --> 00:26:56,479
Speaker 8: only people that could confirm who my twin flame was

519
00:26:58,240 --> 00:27:00,720
Speaker 8: and why it was something that was and why it

520
00:27:00,760 --> 00:27:03,719
Speaker 8: wasn't like a journey. And then it became really strange

521
00:27:03,760 --> 00:27:07,199
Speaker 8: when they started to like confirm other people within the

522
00:27:07,280 --> 00:27:09,560
Speaker 8: group and say, actually, we have a new rule now,

523
00:27:09,680 --> 00:27:13,359
Speaker 8: new twin flames, you know. So they keep sort of

524
00:27:13,480 --> 00:27:17,680
Speaker 8: changing their branding, their script to kind of suit whatever

525
00:27:18,280 --> 00:27:19,680
Speaker 8: made the money at the time.

526
00:27:19,880 --> 00:27:20,720
Speaker 5: To write my.

527
00:27:20,720 --> 00:27:23,920
Speaker 2: Point of view, Right, Alice, can you just describe a

528
00:27:23,960 --> 00:27:27,520
Speaker 2: little bit about what this group actually is and what

529
00:27:27,560 --> 00:27:29,480
Speaker 2: their videos are. What is the program?

530
00:27:29,920 --> 00:27:35,000
Speaker 3: Yeah, so the program consists of joining most people join

531
00:27:35,119 --> 00:27:38,399
Speaker 3: this Facebook group that I talked about earlier then and

532
00:27:38,440 --> 00:27:40,679
Speaker 3: you can kind of get advice from Jeff and Schlia

533
00:27:40,760 --> 00:27:43,840
Speaker 3: within that so called open forum. And then you also

534
00:27:44,080 --> 00:27:47,560
Speaker 3: start participating in coaching, so you can do coaching like

535
00:27:47,920 --> 00:27:51,560
Speaker 3: Lorraine was just talking about with a number of the

536
00:27:51,560 --> 00:27:54,160
Speaker 3: people who are within the twin Flames universe, right, And

537
00:27:54,240 --> 00:27:58,560
Speaker 3: so you're talking about your twin Flame journey self personal

538
00:27:58,600 --> 00:28:02,280
Speaker 3: development as well as doing this exercise which is their

539
00:28:02,320 --> 00:28:05,840
Speaker 3: signature teaching called the mirror exercise, and that actually comes

540
00:28:05,920 --> 00:28:09,080
Speaker 3: up through a lot of different facets of Twin Flames Universe.

541
00:28:09,280 --> 00:28:12,760
Speaker 3: And what that is is a method of introspection where

542
00:28:13,280 --> 00:28:17,080
Speaker 3: you are basically looking at the situations in your life

543
00:28:17,119 --> 00:28:20,760
Speaker 3: and saying what did I do to sort of manifest

544
00:28:20,840 --> 00:28:26,400
Speaker 3: or provoke that. So you are basically mirroring situations back

545
00:28:26,440 --> 00:28:29,400
Speaker 3: on yourself. And so if you went through a breakup

546
00:28:29,560 --> 00:28:32,040
Speaker 3: or if you just lost your job, you say, well,

547
00:28:32,160 --> 00:28:34,520
Speaker 3: why did I break up with myself? Or why did

548
00:28:34,600 --> 00:28:37,879
Speaker 3: I why did I fire or lay off myself?

549
00:28:38,080 --> 00:28:38,280
Speaker 4: Right?

550
00:28:38,360 --> 00:28:42,000
Speaker 3: And that's a way of kind of it's supposedly to

551
00:28:42,040 --> 00:28:45,600
Speaker 3: help you take responsibility, but it can also be problematic

552
00:28:45,680 --> 00:28:48,800
Speaker 3: because you know, objectively, you're not always responsible for things

553
00:28:48,840 --> 00:28:51,040
Speaker 3: that go wrong in your life. Perhaps sometimes you are,

554
00:28:51,120 --> 00:28:54,240
Speaker 3: but not always, and so that's something that comes through.

555
00:28:54,360 --> 00:28:57,040
Speaker 3: And so people are doing the miror exercise and coaching,

556
00:28:57,400 --> 00:29:01,480
Speaker 3: then they also are participating or were participating at the

557
00:29:01,520 --> 00:29:04,600
Speaker 3: time in the time period that we were looking at

558
00:29:04,600 --> 00:29:07,760
Speaker 3: this in this kind of thing called the twin Flame

559
00:29:07,760 --> 00:29:10,160
Speaker 3: Ascension School. These are a series of video classes that

560
00:29:10,200 --> 00:29:13,120
Speaker 3: were done with Jeff and Sulia themselves. These were group

561
00:29:13,200 --> 00:29:16,000
Speaker 3: classes that were recorded so people would sign up for

562
00:29:16,040 --> 00:29:18,320
Speaker 3: the classes. It was sort of a group therapy session,

563
00:29:18,680 --> 00:29:21,600
Speaker 3: and then Jeff and Shlia would sell those classes to

564
00:29:22,560 --> 00:29:24,960
Speaker 3: new members of Twin Flames universe. And those classes were

565
00:29:25,040 --> 00:29:28,080
Speaker 3: very expensive, like the library of videos was up or

566
00:29:28,160 --> 00:29:30,320
Speaker 3: it was several thousand dollars and you were you know,

567
00:29:30,360 --> 00:29:32,760
Speaker 3: you were meant to pay for all of these video

568
00:29:32,840 --> 00:29:36,120
Speaker 3: series if you were to become a coach. So this

569
00:29:36,160 --> 00:29:38,720
Speaker 3: is the primary way that Jeff and Shlia were able

570
00:29:38,760 --> 00:29:43,480
Speaker 3: to monetize this coaching program as well as this kind

571
00:29:43,480 --> 00:29:47,320
Speaker 3: of online therapy technique.

572
00:29:50,800 --> 00:29:53,240
Speaker 2: Have you gone shopping on the internet lately? It has

573
00:29:53,280 --> 00:29:56,160
Speaker 2: some wild stuff stuff that has thousands of reviews and

574
00:29:56,240 --> 00:29:57,880
Speaker 2: arrives in just forty eight hours.

575
00:29:58,120 --> 00:30:00,400
Speaker 1: So why can you get the most random thing from

576
00:30:00,440 --> 00:30:03,000
Speaker 1: around the world in just two days, but it still

577
00:30:03,040 --> 00:30:04,920
Speaker 1: takes forever to see a good doctor?

578
00:30:05,320 --> 00:30:08,680
Speaker 2: Enter zoktoc a place to find and book great doctors

579
00:30:08,720 --> 00:30:12,000
Speaker 2: who actually have amazing reviews, many with appointments available within

580
00:30:12,080 --> 00:30:13,000
Speaker 2: twenty four hours.

581
00:30:13,120 --> 00:30:15,960
Speaker 1: I absolutely love ZocDoc. It has saved my life on

582
00:30:16,000 --> 00:30:19,160
Speaker 1: more than one occasion. It's just the easiest, most simple

583
00:30:19,240 --> 00:30:21,320
Speaker 1: way to deal with the stress of having to see

584
00:30:21,320 --> 00:30:21,760
Speaker 1: a doctor.

585
00:30:21,920 --> 00:30:24,200
Speaker 2: Soctoc is a free app where you can find amazing

586
00:30:24,240 --> 00:30:26,280
Speaker 2: doctors and book appointments online.

587
00:30:26,360 --> 00:30:29,160
Speaker 1: You can book appointments with thousands of top rated, patient

588
00:30:29,200 --> 00:30:31,200
Speaker 1: reviewed doctors and specialists.

589
00:30:31,320 --> 00:30:33,840
Speaker 2: Zoc doc lets you filter specifically for ones who take

590
00:30:33,880 --> 00:30:36,600
Speaker 2: your insurance, are located near you, and treat nearly any

591
00:30:36,600 --> 00:30:37,640
Speaker 2: condition you're searching for.

592
00:30:38,000 --> 00:30:40,840
Speaker 1: You can look up verified reviews from real patients and

593
00:30:40,960 --> 00:30:43,880
Speaker 1: can book immediately with just a few teps plus.

594
00:30:43,960 --> 00:30:46,240
Speaker 2: The average wait time is between just twenty four to

595
00:30:46,280 --> 00:30:47,120
Speaker 2: forty eight hours.

596
00:30:47,240 --> 00:30:50,400
Speaker 1: Go to ZocDoc dot com, slash trust me and download

597
00:30:50,440 --> 00:30:53,000
Speaker 1: the zoc doc app for free. Then find a book

598
00:30:53,000 --> 00:30:54,480
Speaker 1: a top rated doctor today.

599
00:30:54,600 --> 00:30:59,200
Speaker 2: That's cooc dc dot com, slash trust me, ZocDoc dot

600
00:30:59,240 --> 00:31:08,360
Speaker 2: com slash trust me. In the videos, It's crazy how

601
00:31:08,400 --> 00:31:11,280
Speaker 2: much documentation there is of their behavior. First of all,

602
00:31:11,720 --> 00:31:17,080
Speaker 2: you can just god ye see how wildly emotionally abusive

603
00:31:17,440 --> 00:31:22,000
Speaker 2: Jeff becomes. He is basically talking the whole time. What

604
00:31:22,200 --> 00:31:25,680
Speaker 2: is the sort of dynamic between Jeff and Shelia? How

605
00:31:25,720 --> 00:31:27,280
Speaker 2: did you experience that, Lorraine?

606
00:31:28,440 --> 00:31:32,040
Speaker 8: Yeah, I really questioned that this whole idea, this dynamic

607
00:31:32,120 --> 00:31:33,960
Speaker 8: that they had that Jeff kind of did a lot

608
00:31:33,960 --> 00:31:36,640
Speaker 8: of the talking and Shaliah was kind of the subordinate.

609
00:31:36,840 --> 00:31:40,480
Speaker 8: But I think since watching the documentary, what I've really

610
00:31:40,520 --> 00:31:45,760
Speaker 8: realized is that Shalia is a lot more involved through

611
00:31:46,160 --> 00:31:49,440
Speaker 8: stuff that her father said which I had never you know,

612
00:31:49,600 --> 00:31:54,000
Speaker 8: had the chance to witness, and you know, seeing people

613
00:31:54,040 --> 00:31:57,640
Speaker 8: that had had direct experience of them, that she was

614
00:31:57,640 --> 00:32:00,000
Speaker 8: actually part of the mak She was like the spiritual

615
00:32:00,280 --> 00:32:02,640
Speaker 8: side and he was the business side. And I think

616
00:32:03,120 --> 00:32:06,160
Speaker 8: she just preferred Jeff to kind of lead in that way.

617
00:32:06,200 --> 00:32:10,120
Speaker 8: And I think that that's what their dynamic is for

618
00:32:10,160 --> 00:32:11,360
Speaker 8: a lot of people looking in.

619
00:32:11,440 --> 00:32:15,040
Speaker 6: It looks like he's like the one running the show.

620
00:32:15,160 --> 00:32:17,360
Speaker 4: But I think that I wondered if she was like

621
00:32:17,840 --> 00:32:19,400
Speaker 4: sedated at one point.

622
00:32:19,480 --> 00:32:22,479
Speaker 8: Yeah, yeah, it does seem like that sometimes that she

623
00:32:22,600 --> 00:32:24,960
Speaker 8: just sort of sits there whilst he does all of

624
00:32:24,960 --> 00:32:25,920
Speaker 8: the talking.

625
00:32:26,960 --> 00:32:29,920
Speaker 2: And then sometimes she'll be like, yes, that is correct,

626
00:32:30,000 --> 00:32:32,440
Speaker 2: you do need to change everything about your life, or

627
00:32:32,600 --> 00:32:32,880
Speaker 2: just like.

628
00:32:34,320 --> 00:32:36,920
Speaker 4: Don't talk to him like that, you know, and you're like, whoa.

629
00:32:37,120 --> 00:32:41,200
Speaker 2: Yeah, Jeff is this very interesting character, which the doc

630
00:32:41,320 --> 00:32:43,520
Speaker 2: sort of sets up where he was like this kind

631
00:32:43,560 --> 00:32:47,080
Speaker 2: of hustler in high school who's always like trying to

632
00:32:47,080 --> 00:32:49,640
Speaker 2: make a buck Alice, can you kind of talk about

633
00:32:49,640 --> 00:32:51,680
Speaker 2: that a little bit? And how we know he probably

634
00:32:51,680 --> 00:32:52,800
Speaker 2: doesn't believe in this.

635
00:32:53,360 --> 00:32:56,160
Speaker 3: Well we know that he didn't at first, right, So

636
00:32:57,360 --> 00:33:01,560
Speaker 3: basically we were able to talk to and identify people

637
00:33:01,640 --> 00:33:04,440
Speaker 3: a lot of people from Jeff's life. So they're his

638
00:33:04,680 --> 00:33:07,680
Speaker 3: best friend from high school, you know. We interview a

639
00:33:07,720 --> 00:33:10,720
Speaker 3: woman who dated him in high school, and so these

640
00:33:10,720 --> 00:33:13,040
Speaker 3: people kind of paint a picture of who Jeff was

641
00:33:13,800 --> 00:33:17,240
Speaker 3: before he became the co founder of Twin Flames Universe.

642
00:33:17,320 --> 00:33:20,520
Speaker 3: And yeah, I mean he was he had a bunch

643
00:33:20,520 --> 00:33:22,960
Speaker 3: of different business ideas, Like he was interested from a

644
00:33:23,040 --> 00:33:25,960
Speaker 3: very young age in this idea of passive income which

645
00:33:26,000 --> 00:33:28,240
Speaker 3: is kind of like a dog whistle of sorts for

646
00:33:28,680 --> 00:33:30,080
Speaker 3: online scamming.

647
00:33:29,800 --> 00:33:32,080
Speaker 7: A lot of the time, not always, but often.

648
00:33:33,280 --> 00:33:36,200
Speaker 3: And so you know, he was making blogs in his

649
00:33:36,240 --> 00:33:38,600
Speaker 3: early twenties about how he was going to become a

650
00:33:38,640 --> 00:33:41,560
Speaker 3: life coach, and he you know, was tweeting things like

651
00:33:41,840 --> 00:33:44,720
Speaker 3: here's how to make money online from home, and so.

652
00:33:45,280 --> 00:33:47,320
Speaker 4: Changing his name always too.

653
00:33:47,480 --> 00:33:50,480
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, yeah, he changed his name multiple times and

654
00:33:50,760 --> 00:33:53,440
Speaker 3: then kind of changed it back. Jeff was always interested

655
00:33:53,440 --> 00:33:57,520
Speaker 3: in making money, and Jeff became interested in the idea

656
00:33:57,520 --> 00:34:00,000
Speaker 3: of twin flames and much more invested in the idea

657
00:34:00,040 --> 00:34:03,560
Speaker 3: of spirituality when he met Shelia. So I think that's

658
00:34:03,920 --> 00:34:06,440
Speaker 3: what for a lot of people, like, for example, the

659
00:34:06,480 --> 00:34:09,680
Speaker 3: people that knew Jeff early on as a younger person,

660
00:34:10,160 --> 00:34:14,360
Speaker 3: they would probably agree with your statement that Jeff doesn't

661
00:34:14,360 --> 00:34:15,760
Speaker 3: believe all of what he sells.

662
00:34:15,880 --> 00:34:17,560
Speaker 7: Well, but I'm cure.

663
00:34:17,400 --> 00:34:21,600
Speaker 3: Cancer one right, yeah, so he yeah, yeah, he claimed

664
00:34:21,600 --> 00:34:23,440
Speaker 3: that was one that was the early business idea was

665
00:34:23,480 --> 00:34:25,920
Speaker 3: he claimed that he you know, found these gifts as

666
00:34:25,920 --> 00:34:28,840
Speaker 3: a healer and that he could cure cancer, right, which is.

667
00:34:28,920 --> 00:34:29,120
Speaker 8: Yeah.

668
00:34:29,160 --> 00:34:31,200
Speaker 7: I mean, that's that's completely ridiculous.

669
00:34:32,160 --> 00:34:35,040
Speaker 3: And it's interesting because they he sort of like when

670
00:34:35,080 --> 00:34:38,200
Speaker 3: I was reporting this story, he had kind of backed

671
00:34:38,239 --> 00:34:40,120
Speaker 3: off from that, but there were still claims like this,

672
00:34:40,320 --> 00:34:43,400
Speaker 3: Like they claimed through this program that twin Flames Universe

673
00:34:43,440 --> 00:34:48,280
Speaker 3: debuted called map, that they could heal PTSD like instantly

674
00:34:48,320 --> 00:34:51,480
Speaker 3: they could like cure PTSD, And then I think while

675
00:34:51,480 --> 00:34:53,759
Speaker 3: I was writing my article, they added a disclaimer to

676
00:34:53,800 --> 00:34:56,440
Speaker 3: the website like, oh, we're not sure if we can

677
00:34:56,560 --> 00:35:00,520
Speaker 3: do this. So yeah, it was kind of interesting to

678
00:35:00,520 --> 00:35:04,240
Speaker 3: see the evolution of that, but they do definitely still

679
00:35:05,239 --> 00:35:09,719
Speaker 3: make claims about health conditions and why they are, in

680
00:35:09,760 --> 00:35:13,759
Speaker 3: their opinion, caused by childhood trauma versus biology.

681
00:35:13,920 --> 00:35:17,920
Speaker 2: Yeah, right, Lorraine, did you feel like it was working,

682
00:35:18,120 --> 00:35:22,719
Speaker 2: Like it wasn't doing anything for you as a program.

683
00:35:23,080 --> 00:35:27,160
Speaker 8: I think I'm a naturally positive person, and I think

684
00:35:27,400 --> 00:35:29,279
Speaker 8: they kind of I was only in it.

685
00:35:29,239 --> 00:35:31,839
Speaker 6: For like three four months. I want to put that.

686
00:35:31,880 --> 00:35:34,759
Speaker 8: Out there, and it was quite easy for me to

687
00:35:34,760 --> 00:35:37,880
Speaker 8: get to the top because I was charismatic. I sold well,

688
00:35:38,080 --> 00:35:42,760
Speaker 8: to be honest, I was a coach, I was running

689
00:35:43,120 --> 00:35:47,000
Speaker 8: Facebook groups, I was in the headquarterses for their media

690
00:35:47,080 --> 00:35:49,920
Speaker 8: and such a short in such a short time, because

691
00:35:50,000 --> 00:35:53,680
Speaker 8: this is how I got to understand their workings quite quickly,

692
00:35:53,880 --> 00:35:56,359
Speaker 8: and how they were abusing their staff and the things

693
00:35:56,360 --> 00:36:00,200
Speaker 8: that they were talking about in sort of the closed group,

694
00:36:00,280 --> 00:36:02,960
Speaker 8: because you have the main open forum, but you get

695
00:36:03,239 --> 00:36:06,680
Speaker 8: invited into these further secret groups where you then get

696
00:36:06,680 --> 00:36:11,359
Speaker 8: promoted into high positions the more work that you do.

697
00:36:11,480 --> 00:36:14,080
Speaker 8: So I was on the coaching program and things like that,

698
00:36:14,800 --> 00:36:19,400
Speaker 8: and Jeff was just he was belittling people, telling people

699
00:36:19,480 --> 00:36:23,280
Speaker 8: that their work was nothing, using sort of the trauma

700
00:36:23,320 --> 00:36:26,560
Speaker 8: that they'd been vulnerable with against them, and that just

701
00:36:26,560 --> 00:36:29,640
Speaker 8: didn't sit right with me because as soon as I saw,

702
00:36:29,800 --> 00:36:32,399
Speaker 8: I mean, he's taken it off now, but he had

703
00:36:32,520 --> 00:36:36,600
Speaker 8: this list of people that were part of his sole

704
00:36:36,680 --> 00:36:38,560
Speaker 8: family and he said he was part of the same

705
00:36:38,680 --> 00:36:46,360
Speaker 8: sole family as Christ, Shakespeare, Nephrititi, and I was just like, okay,

706
00:36:46,280 --> 00:36:48,000
Speaker 8: he said he is Christ.

707
00:36:48,760 --> 00:36:52,279
Speaker 6: Yeah, you know that. That video and the ramblings went on.

708
00:36:52,400 --> 00:36:55,440
Speaker 8: I think the first when I saw the video of

709
00:36:55,560 --> 00:37:00,920
Speaker 8: Jeff weeping when he achieved financial freedom, I found that

710
00:37:01,239 --> 00:37:06,120
Speaker 8: very disconcerting. And having grown up in a church where

711
00:37:06,560 --> 00:37:09,640
Speaker 8: knowing that when money gets involved and things like that

712
00:37:09,680 --> 00:37:12,040
Speaker 8: and people start to get corrupt that this was a

713
00:37:12,160 --> 00:37:13,200
Speaker 8: huge red flag.

714
00:37:13,320 --> 00:37:15,880
Speaker 2: I find it really interesting. I mean, and of course

715
00:37:15,960 --> 00:37:17,360
Speaker 2: I guess this is always how it goes. But you

716
00:37:17,400 --> 00:37:20,680
Speaker 2: have this spiritual side where people are like working on

717
00:37:20,800 --> 00:37:23,200
Speaker 2: self development and trying to find true love, and then

718
00:37:23,239 --> 00:37:28,160
Speaker 2: you have this MLM side where they're recruiting people to

719
00:37:28,360 --> 00:37:31,600
Speaker 2: recruit people. Can you describe that a little bit, Alice,

720
00:37:31,760 --> 00:37:34,560
Speaker 2: It's definitely kind of split. So they have a church,

721
00:37:34,640 --> 00:37:37,440
Speaker 2: they have all of these spiritual teachings, they have this

722
00:37:37,560 --> 00:37:41,839
Speaker 2: therapy technique. It's about becoming a better person. And then

723
00:37:42,000 --> 00:37:45,320
Speaker 2: it's also a big business. And so the business works

724
00:37:45,960 --> 00:37:50,440
Speaker 2: primarily through selling videos and selling content, right because if

725
00:37:50,440 --> 00:37:53,799
Speaker 2: you think about a spiritual community like this that operates

726
00:37:54,120 --> 00:37:58,920
Speaker 2: almost exclusively online, you know you're able to infinitely scale

727
00:37:59,120 --> 00:38:01,359
Speaker 2: those video series, right, Like you don't have to sell

728
00:38:01,400 --> 00:38:04,720
Speaker 2: tickets to an auditorium where someone goes to a seminar

729
00:38:04,719 --> 00:38:07,040
Speaker 2: and there's only two hundred seats, Like, you could sell

730
00:38:07,080 --> 00:38:09,960
Speaker 2: as many copies of your video series as there are

731
00:38:10,040 --> 00:38:12,319
Speaker 2: people willing to buy them. And so that's how twin

732
00:38:12,360 --> 00:38:15,160
Speaker 2: Flames Universe became quite a large and quite a successful

733
00:38:15,160 --> 00:38:18,160
Speaker 2: business for Jeff and Shalia it's because they were able

734
00:38:18,200 --> 00:38:22,880
Speaker 2: to market online. They were able to promote themselves through coaches.

735
00:38:23,040 --> 00:38:27,520
Speaker 2: They spammed other spiritual Facebook groups with invitations to join

736
00:38:27,520 --> 00:38:30,000
Speaker 2: the Twin Flames universe. They had, you know, an army

737
00:38:30,080 --> 00:38:33,840
Speaker 2: of recruiters, and so that was very much an important

738
00:38:33,880 --> 00:38:37,440
Speaker 2: part of the business. And you know, Jeff and Shalia

739
00:38:37,480 --> 00:38:40,200
Speaker 2: would argue that, you know, they're just trying to get

740
00:38:40,239 --> 00:38:42,960
Speaker 2: their helpful teachings in front of more people, right, That's

741
00:38:43,200 --> 00:38:45,879
Speaker 2: that's what they would say in terms of why they

742
00:38:46,040 --> 00:38:48,239
Speaker 2: there was so much emphasis on the business.

743
00:38:48,000 --> 00:38:48,640
Speaker 5: Aspect of it.

744
00:38:48,960 --> 00:38:52,319
Speaker 3: However, they also are unapologetic about wanting to be rich,

745
00:38:52,480 --> 00:38:56,080
Speaker 3: and they make lots of videos showing off material things.

746
00:38:55,920 --> 00:38:58,560
Speaker 4: Like prosperity gospel type of stuff. And I will say

747
00:38:58,600 --> 00:39:01,319
Speaker 4: it's interesting that they let the coh is keep one

748
00:39:01,400 --> 00:39:04,839
Speaker 4: hundred percent of the profits. That's not usual. But they

749
00:39:04,840 --> 00:39:08,240
Speaker 4: are making the coaches sell the programs that are thousands

750
00:39:08,320 --> 00:39:09,560
Speaker 4: upon thousands of dollars.

751
00:39:10,160 --> 00:39:15,160
Speaker 3: Yes, and they the coaches also are required to buy

752
00:39:15,360 --> 00:39:18,880
Speaker 3: all of the video series in order to be coaches.

753
00:39:19,040 --> 00:39:22,239
Speaker 3: So in order to become in order to get a

754
00:39:22,560 --> 00:39:25,920
Speaker 3: small amount of income through your own coaching, you're required

755
00:39:25,960 --> 00:39:29,400
Speaker 3: to pay definitially one thousands of dollars, So that's important

756
00:39:29,480 --> 00:39:32,640
Speaker 3: to kind of keep in mind. And the other thing

757
00:39:32,680 --> 00:39:37,680
Speaker 3: about the coaching is, yes, coaches do earn income from coaching,

758
00:39:37,880 --> 00:39:43,680
Speaker 3: but also you know, there's not that many people joining.

759
00:39:43,719 --> 00:39:48,880
Speaker 7: If everyone's a coach, you know who, right, so's there's.

760
00:39:48,680 --> 00:39:50,920
Speaker 3: A math problem there in terms of being able to

761
00:39:50,960 --> 00:39:53,920
Speaker 3: make money as a coach. Does that kind of does

762
00:39:53,960 --> 00:39:57,200
Speaker 3: that align with your experience, Lorraine, did you make any

763
00:39:57,239 --> 00:39:59,960
Speaker 3: money or you Probably most people lose money, almost everyone

764
00:40:00,000 --> 00:40:02,600
Speaker 3: I've talked to you last money in tins Universe.

765
00:40:02,920 --> 00:40:05,640
Speaker 8: Actually for me, I did a PayPal dispute and got

766
00:40:05,640 --> 00:40:06,959
Speaker 8: my money back, so I'm not.

767
00:40:06,880 --> 00:40:07,720
Speaker 2: One of those PRIs.

768
00:40:07,880 --> 00:40:14,360
Speaker 8: Yes, but for those that did, yeah, a lot of

769
00:40:14,360 --> 00:40:18,919
Speaker 8: people lose money because there you have to join life

770
00:40:18,960 --> 00:40:22,600
Speaker 8: purpose or purpose classes. And I think there was a

771
00:40:22,640 --> 00:40:25,600
Speaker 8: time when to carry on being coached, you have to

772
00:40:25,600 --> 00:40:29,320
Speaker 8: pay percentage as well to Jeff and Salia every month

773
00:40:29,640 --> 00:40:33,279
Speaker 8: to maintain that as well to the accreditation of Twin

774
00:40:33,360 --> 00:40:38,480
Speaker 8: Flames Universe because it is their you know, their branding, right.

775
00:40:38,600 --> 00:40:42,880
Speaker 8: So I think if you were a big name in

776
00:40:42,960 --> 00:40:46,080
Speaker 8: the group and Jeff and she actually liked you, and

777
00:40:46,120 --> 00:40:48,239
Speaker 8: you brought them a lot of people, and people liked

778
00:40:48,239 --> 00:40:50,239
Speaker 8: you and you're making the money, they would put you

779
00:40:50,239 --> 00:40:51,239
Speaker 8: at the forefront, so you.

780
00:40:51,360 --> 00:40:52,400
Speaker 6: Got a lot of clients.

781
00:40:52,600 --> 00:40:55,440
Speaker 8: And I think for me, if I didn't have such

782
00:40:55,760 --> 00:40:58,719
Speaker 8: ethical problems with what they were doing, I could I

783
00:40:58,760 --> 00:41:00,719
Speaker 8: could have made a lot of money. Like when we

784
00:41:00,800 --> 00:41:04,640
Speaker 8: talk about people like Adam Katrina, they had made a

785
00:41:04,680 --> 00:41:08,319
Speaker 8: lot of money from working with Jeffinschley and became their

786
00:41:08,360 --> 00:41:10,000
Speaker 8: main source of income for a while.

787
00:41:10,280 --> 00:41:12,320
Speaker 4: You were also required to do a lot of free work,

788
00:41:12,440 --> 00:41:13,200
Speaker 4: is that correct.

789
00:41:13,760 --> 00:41:16,040
Speaker 8: Yeah, you were required to do a lot of free

790
00:41:16,040 --> 00:41:18,680
Speaker 8: work in your own time, like three hour blocks of

791
00:41:18,800 --> 00:41:22,239
Speaker 8: maintaining the Instagram, the YouTube, the Facebook, the.

792
00:41:22,280 --> 00:41:23,040
Speaker 6: Church of Union.

793
00:41:23,080 --> 00:41:25,320
Speaker 8: There were so many various things that they were doing,

794
00:41:27,440 --> 00:41:30,279
Speaker 8: so it was kind of I guess it's kind of

795
00:41:30,320 --> 00:41:35,839
Speaker 8: like any sort of multi level networking business idea where

796
00:41:36,560 --> 00:41:39,120
Speaker 8: the more you put yourself out there, the more you

797
00:41:39,160 --> 00:41:43,080
Speaker 8: expose yourself as someone who understands the product and is

798
00:41:43,120 --> 00:41:45,879
Speaker 8: willing to sell it, then the more money you'll make

799
00:41:45,920 --> 00:41:46,239
Speaker 8: from it.

800
00:41:46,480 --> 00:41:48,520
Speaker 2: I mean, it sounds like a pretty classic MLM and

801
00:41:48,600 --> 00:41:51,279
Speaker 2: that like there are a handful of people who can

802
00:41:51,400 --> 00:41:55,960
Speaker 2: make good money and everyone else was his money's Yeah, yeah,

803
00:41:56,680 --> 00:41:57,160
Speaker 2: on time.

804
00:42:02,880 --> 00:42:05,440
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839
00:43:46,680 --> 00:43:49,239
Speaker 2: Before we get into like just how dark of a

840
00:43:49,320 --> 00:43:51,880
Speaker 2: turn it took the people in the documentary, everyone is

841
00:43:51,920 --> 00:43:55,960
Speaker 2: so cool and normal and like cute, Like these are

842
00:43:56,000 --> 00:43:59,160
Speaker 2: not like weirdos, you know, these are like normal people

843
00:43:59,360 --> 00:44:02,680
Speaker 2: who are like lonely right now or like just trying

844
00:44:02,680 --> 00:44:05,239
Speaker 2: to figure it all out. And Alice, I wondered if

845
00:44:05,239 --> 00:44:06,920
Speaker 2: you could just tell us a little bit about.

846
00:44:06,640 --> 00:44:08,760
Speaker 3: Like what you know, how they were praying on people

847
00:44:08,840 --> 00:44:11,520
Speaker 3: and what the appeal was for them. Yeah, I'm really

848
00:44:11,560 --> 00:44:14,120
Speaker 3: glad you said that, because when I first started interviewing

849
00:44:14,160 --> 00:44:16,719
Speaker 3: people who were in Twin Flames Universe, there are a

850
00:44:16,760 --> 00:44:18,359
Speaker 3: lot of people who I was like, I would love

851
00:44:18,360 --> 00:44:20,200
Speaker 3: to hang out with them, Like I would be friends

852
00:44:20,200 --> 00:44:23,520
Speaker 3: with this person, Like they were really cool and interesting,

853
00:44:23,560 --> 00:44:24,880
Speaker 3: they had diverse interests.

854
00:44:25,120 --> 00:44:26,480
Speaker 7: They're from all over the world.

855
00:44:27,000 --> 00:44:29,560
Speaker 3: Maybe those aren't people that you meet in your day

856
00:44:29,600 --> 00:44:31,959
Speaker 3: to day life and your work and through your group

857
00:44:32,000 --> 00:44:34,880
Speaker 3: of friends wherever you live. So I totally understand the

858
00:44:34,880 --> 00:44:38,359
Speaker 3: appeal from a community perspective of wanting to join and

859
00:44:38,480 --> 00:44:42,200
Speaker 3: meet like a bunch of interesting, spiritual, like kind of

860
00:44:42,239 --> 00:44:46,120
Speaker 3: open minded people from like countries around the world. Like

861
00:44:46,920 --> 00:44:51,040
Speaker 3: it was diverse, right, Like, it seemed very like LGBTQ affirming,

862
00:44:51,160 --> 00:44:53,399
Speaker 3: Like it's a lot of things that like I would

863
00:44:53,440 --> 00:44:56,320
Speaker 3: be into, right, Like, I could see why people joined.

864
00:44:56,719 --> 00:44:59,960
Speaker 2: I just think about people I know who are awesome

865
00:45:00,200 --> 00:45:02,760
Speaker 2: and like, for whatever reason, are struggling to find a partner,

866
00:45:02,880 --> 00:45:05,160
Speaker 2: and they go to the Internet to look for answers,

867
00:45:05,200 --> 00:45:06,560
Speaker 2: and they do a lot of them do end up

868
00:45:06,560 --> 00:45:08,560
Speaker 2: on a lot of YouTube videos and a lot of tiktoks,

869
00:45:08,560 --> 00:45:12,400
Speaker 2: like explaining how to do that like it was ostensibly

870
00:45:12,440 --> 00:45:14,719
Speaker 2: meeting a need for people or helping them attempt to

871
00:45:14,760 --> 00:45:17,160
Speaker 2: meet a need. Right, Yeah, I think that like the

872
00:45:17,239 --> 00:45:20,480
Speaker 2: reason why people join like makes a lot of sense.

873
00:45:20,760 --> 00:45:24,799
Speaker 2: And you know, most people like meet their partner or

874
00:45:24,840 --> 00:45:28,040
Speaker 2: many people meet their partner online today, So you're already

875
00:45:28,080 --> 00:45:31,200
Speaker 2: looking for someone online, You're already like, that's already where

876
00:45:31,200 --> 00:45:34,120
Speaker 2: you're turning if you are like hoping to meet someone.

877
00:45:34,200 --> 00:45:36,320
Speaker 2: And then a lot of people get kind of disillusioned

878
00:45:36,360 --> 00:45:39,759
Speaker 2: with swiping because it feels very consumeristic and you're just like,

879
00:45:39,800 --> 00:45:42,560
Speaker 2: what am I like shopping on Amazon for like my

880
00:45:42,640 --> 00:45:45,760
Speaker 2: soulmate or my twin flame? Like I feel it feels

881
00:45:45,800 --> 00:45:48,000
Speaker 2: like that sometimes, like on these dating apps, it feels

882
00:45:48,040 --> 00:45:51,560
Speaker 2: very impersonal, and so I think people get disenchanted. And

883
00:45:51,600 --> 00:45:54,760
Speaker 2: the people who are attracted to twin Flames universe want

884
00:45:54,880 --> 00:45:58,440
Speaker 2: something that feels more meaningful, Like they want a connection

885
00:45:58,680 --> 00:46:03,040
Speaker 2: that is beyond and this just kind of consumerist culture.

886
00:46:03,239 --> 00:46:08,000
Speaker 2: And so the message of you can find love that

887
00:46:08,239 --> 00:46:11,000
Speaker 2: is this person that is destined for you, your two

888
00:46:11,080 --> 00:46:14,920
Speaker 2: halves of the same soul, right, this is across multiple lifetimes.

889
00:46:14,920 --> 00:46:18,400
Speaker 2: Like that's that's very appealing for people. When I was

890
00:46:18,440 --> 00:46:20,440
Speaker 2: twenty did have I told you this. When I was

891
00:46:20,480 --> 00:46:22,960
Speaker 2: like twenty years old, I kept dating fuck boys and

892
00:46:23,000 --> 00:46:25,960
Speaker 2: I was convinced there was like some some like deep

893
00:46:26,040 --> 00:46:29,040
Speaker 2: problem within me, and I downloaded this ebook called Catch

894
00:46:29,120 --> 00:46:33,640
Speaker 2: Him and Keep Him, and you know, like YouTube wasn't

895
00:46:33,680 --> 00:46:35,560
Speaker 2: as much of a thing back then, but like I

896
00:46:35,640 --> 00:46:38,960
Speaker 2: was hungry for information on how to changed this pattern.

897
00:46:39,000 --> 00:46:42,080
Speaker 2: You know, like I could totally see this like being

898
00:46:42,080 --> 00:46:44,120
Speaker 2: a thing that I would fall into if I was

899
00:46:44,200 --> 00:46:45,920
Speaker 2: just like lonely, and like, yeah.

900
00:46:45,719 --> 00:46:48,480
Speaker 4: It's a noble question. And as Lauren says in the documentary,

901
00:46:48,719 --> 00:46:52,319
Speaker 4: there's like an epidemic of loneliness right now. And then

902
00:46:52,640 --> 00:46:55,560
Speaker 4: connected with people who aren't just fuck boys, who are

903
00:46:55,960 --> 00:46:58,440
Speaker 4: women or you know, just people who actually want to

904
00:46:58,440 --> 00:47:02,759
Speaker 4: find this connection could be very beautiful thing. The problem,

905
00:47:03,200 --> 00:47:06,319
Speaker 4: I guess, started to arise when you realize most of

906
00:47:06,360 --> 00:47:11,120
Speaker 4: the people in this group are all women, and therein

907
00:47:11,200 --> 00:47:12,080
Speaker 4: lies a problem.

908
00:47:12,480 --> 00:47:17,120
Speaker 2: Well, let's get into this idea that only one person

909
00:47:17,200 --> 00:47:19,959
Speaker 2: needs to make the choice of who their twin flame

910
00:47:20,040 --> 00:47:22,560
Speaker 2: is and the other person doesn't necessarily need to agree

911
00:47:22,600 --> 00:47:22,839
Speaker 2: to that.

912
00:47:23,280 --> 00:47:24,400
Speaker 7: Yeah, that's interesting.

913
00:47:24,880 --> 00:47:27,240
Speaker 3: There are a lot of cases like that of someone

914
00:47:27,280 --> 00:47:30,719
Speaker 3: that thinks that they're in a twin flame union, and

915
00:47:30,760 --> 00:47:34,400
Speaker 3: it's actually just unilateral with the other person, like no,

916
00:47:34,600 --> 00:47:35,319
Speaker 3: don't talk to me.

917
00:47:36,560 --> 00:47:39,400
Speaker 4: But they sign off on it, even if you're a

918
00:47:39,440 --> 00:47:40,839
Speaker 4: person but you're in like the SCE.

919
00:47:40,960 --> 00:47:44,040
Speaker 8: Yeah, and they're like they encourage you, you know, go

920
00:47:44,080 --> 00:47:47,439
Speaker 8: across the country, go and chase them, knock on their door,

921
00:47:47,960 --> 00:47:50,480
Speaker 8: you know, tell them that there your twin flame. Confess

922
00:47:50,520 --> 00:47:54,120
Speaker 8: your love, like change their life, don't let them leave,

923
00:47:55,440 --> 00:47:59,120
Speaker 8: just like harass, harass, harassed as much as you can,

924
00:47:59,360 --> 00:48:00,799
Speaker 8: you know, and until they love you.

925
00:48:01,920 --> 00:48:04,480
Speaker 4: Put it in them. And they were like, that's fine.

926
00:48:04,920 --> 00:48:08,880
Speaker 2: Keep going, Yeah, keep going. Jeff said in one video,

927
00:48:09,440 --> 00:48:11,960
Speaker 2: if it is in your heart to claim your twin flame,

928
00:48:12,080 --> 00:48:15,160
Speaker 2: it is your responsibility to claim them. If you think

929
00:48:15,160 --> 00:48:17,920
Speaker 2: it should be in their heart, you're wrong. It's in

930
00:48:17,960 --> 00:48:22,760
Speaker 2: yours claim. So this is such a dangerous, obviously idea

931
00:48:22,920 --> 00:48:26,759
Speaker 2: that like consent doesn't matter, first of all, And there's

932
00:48:26,840 --> 00:48:28,960
Speaker 2: so many videos of people in the group being like

933
00:48:29,000 --> 00:48:31,000
Speaker 2: I don't know, I don't know if I feel comfortable

934
00:48:31,000 --> 00:48:33,399
Speaker 2: doing that, and he's like, just do it anyway, come

935
00:48:33,440 --> 00:48:35,840
Speaker 2: on else, can you just like tell us about that

936
00:48:35,960 --> 00:48:38,440
Speaker 2: and how that sort of played out with different people.

937
00:48:38,760 --> 00:48:40,640
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, this was very much a part of

938
00:48:40,680 --> 00:48:43,920
Speaker 3: their ideology, and there's many many examples of them telling

939
00:48:43,920 --> 00:48:47,280
Speaker 3: people to cross boundaries. So like in the open Forum,

940
00:48:47,360 --> 00:48:50,160
Speaker 3: you'll go in and you'll see posts of people saying, like,

941
00:48:50,239 --> 00:48:51,400
Speaker 3: my twin flame blocked me.

942
00:48:51,640 --> 00:48:52,880
Speaker 7: There's so many posts like that.

943
00:48:53,080 --> 00:48:55,719
Speaker 3: It's like, why isn't my twin flame, Like like why

944
00:48:55,760 --> 00:48:57,560
Speaker 3: did they block me on Facebook? Like why did they

945
00:48:57,600 --> 00:49:01,680
Speaker 3: block me on Uh? Why did they block my phone number?

946
00:49:01,719 --> 00:49:03,520
Speaker 3: And then you know it gets even worse or people

947
00:49:03,520 --> 00:49:06,120
Speaker 3: are like, my twin flame filed a restraining order against me.

948
00:49:06,200 --> 00:49:09,239
Speaker 7: Like what should I do? So, yeah, like this was

949
00:49:09,239 --> 00:49:09,759
Speaker 7: a this.

950
00:49:09,800 --> 00:49:14,640
Speaker 3: Was a problematic ideology, and it definitely was one of

951
00:49:14,680 --> 00:49:16,960
Speaker 3: those tricky things where you know, it's not as if

952
00:49:17,040 --> 00:49:20,200
Speaker 3: everyone who was in the Twin Flames universe ended up

953
00:49:20,640 --> 00:49:23,680
Speaker 3: crossing boundaries, and you know there is some level of

954
00:49:24,200 --> 00:49:27,640
Speaker 3: you know, it was certain people right who ended up

955
00:49:27,680 --> 00:49:30,439
Speaker 3: doing it, and so Jeff and Schlia would maybe say, well,

956
00:49:30,440 --> 00:49:32,719
Speaker 3: that's you know, that's not our fault, right, like they

957
00:49:32,719 --> 00:49:35,000
Speaker 3: would have done this anyway. But then the problem is,

958
00:49:35,040 --> 00:49:37,000
Speaker 3: like when you look at their ideology and what they

959
00:49:37,000 --> 00:49:40,040
Speaker 3: were telling people, this was very much a part of

960
00:49:40,080 --> 00:49:43,040
Speaker 3: the Twin flames universe doctrine. Yeah, so I think it.

961
00:49:43,120 --> 00:49:45,400
Speaker 3: You know, that definitely bears a lot of responsibility.

962
00:49:45,640 --> 00:49:48,320
Speaker 2: Yeah, the runner versus the chaser.

963
00:49:48,760 --> 00:49:52,200
Speaker 4: Idea that's like baked into the very concept of it.

964
00:49:52,719 --> 00:49:53,239
Speaker 6: Yeah.

965
00:49:54,120 --> 00:49:56,560
Speaker 8: Yeah, So they kind of make you feel like you're

966
00:49:56,680 --> 00:50:01,719
Speaker 8: expected to go through this tumultuous journey. If they leave you,

967
00:50:01,800 --> 00:50:04,560
Speaker 8: if they block you, if they if they start seeing

968
00:50:04,600 --> 00:50:06,240
Speaker 8: somebody else, this is part of the journey.

969
00:50:06,320 --> 00:50:08,000
Speaker 6: This is part of your journey.

970
00:50:08,120 --> 00:50:10,880
Speaker 8: This is the hair brush you've they called it a

971
00:50:10,880 --> 00:50:15,240
Speaker 8: hair brush when your supposed twin flame started seeing somebody

972
00:50:15,320 --> 00:50:17,040
Speaker 8: else or was married to somebody else.

973
00:50:20,280 --> 00:50:24,000
Speaker 6: I can't give you these answers, I'm sorry, but.

974
00:50:26,560 --> 00:50:30,200
Speaker 8: They had a very weird idea that if you just

975
00:50:30,320 --> 00:50:33,160
Speaker 8: believed it with your entirety of your soul, that you

976
00:50:33,200 --> 00:50:36,080
Speaker 8: could just win anybody over. You just had to be

977
00:50:36,200 --> 00:50:39,920
Speaker 8: assertive and persistent, and that's how you get things done.

978
00:50:39,960 --> 00:50:42,880
Speaker 8: And that's kind of how this sort of belittling and

979
00:50:43,000 --> 00:50:48,120
Speaker 8: bullying energy came about, where people kind of refraining from

980
00:50:48,480 --> 00:50:51,680
Speaker 8: should I be doing this? Should I go across the world?

981
00:50:51,760 --> 00:50:54,920
Speaker 8: Should I be doing that? And Jeff kind of retaliating

982
00:50:55,040 --> 00:50:57,960
Speaker 8: back saying, are you trying? You know, why do you

983
00:50:57,960 --> 00:51:00,000
Speaker 8: want to end your journey? Why do you want to

984
00:51:00,040 --> 00:51:02,680
Speaker 8: take your love away? You're not really committed to this.

985
00:51:03,320 --> 00:51:06,520
Speaker 8: We're gonna you know, you're disappointing us. You know, you're

986
00:51:06,560 --> 00:51:08,919
Speaker 8: not part of the group. And the group would kind

987
00:51:08,920 --> 00:51:12,719
Speaker 8: of go along with it because Jeff and Shalia had

988
00:51:12,800 --> 00:51:13,680
Speaker 8: complete control.

989
00:51:14,000 --> 00:51:16,640
Speaker 6: So what they said kind of when if.

990
00:51:16,560 --> 00:51:18,880
Speaker 1: I can just add, it's not only like why are

991
00:51:18,880 --> 00:51:20,879
Speaker 1: you giving up on this? From what I could see,

992
00:51:20,880 --> 00:51:23,839
Speaker 1: it's well, then you're gonna have ten more lifetimes of

993
00:51:23,920 --> 00:51:26,600
Speaker 1: chasing this person, and you're gonna be punished and like

994
00:51:26,680 --> 00:51:28,560
Speaker 1: your next life could be this and this and this.

995
00:51:28,680 --> 00:51:32,120
Speaker 1: I mean it's like spiritual warfare held over your head,

996
00:51:32,719 --> 00:51:35,840
Speaker 1: of lifetimes of pain if you don't end up with

997
00:51:35,960 --> 00:51:39,200
Speaker 1: this twin flame that they've ordained for you.

998
00:51:39,600 --> 00:51:45,560
Speaker 2: Oh yeah there, Yeah, he is speechless of how you

999
00:51:45,640 --> 00:51:46,200
Speaker 2: pull that us?

1000
00:51:46,239 --> 00:51:48,399
Speaker 4: And I mean it's just it is so fucked up.

1001
00:51:48,520 --> 00:51:51,480
Speaker 2: Yeah, the pressure it puts on you to like force

1002
00:51:51,600 --> 00:51:55,200
Speaker 2: a relationship that isn't happening, you know, that's just insane.

1003
00:51:55,239 --> 00:51:57,360
Speaker 2: But but yeah, it seems like he's just started to

1004
00:51:57,360 --> 00:52:01,400
Speaker 2: get more and more controlling, right, Like one member Brianna,

1005
00:52:01,840 --> 00:52:03,959
Speaker 2: there's a video of her saying she just really wants

1006
00:52:04,000 --> 00:52:05,920
Speaker 2: to pursue music and that's where her heart is, and

1007
00:52:05,960 --> 00:52:08,799
Speaker 2: he's like, no, you're supposed to be a coach. There's

1008
00:52:08,800 --> 00:52:11,399
Speaker 2: a video of a member crying and insisting that she's

1009
00:52:11,480 --> 00:52:13,960
Speaker 2: not the problem in her relationship, and he starts belittling

1010
00:52:14,000 --> 00:52:17,760
Speaker 2: her and telling her she's wrong. He calls someone abusive

1011
00:52:17,800 --> 00:52:20,400
Speaker 2: when he's obviously being abusive. Like, it just starts to

1012
00:52:20,440 --> 00:52:24,560
Speaker 2: get gnarly. Alice, was that like gradual? Like what was

1013
00:52:24,560 --> 00:52:25,240
Speaker 2: that process?

1014
00:52:25,360 --> 00:52:25,440
Speaker 11: Like?

1015
00:52:25,719 --> 00:52:28,000
Speaker 3: I think that that process as they started to get

1016
00:52:28,040 --> 00:52:30,560
Speaker 3: more power, and as their community started to grow, they

1017
00:52:30,600 --> 00:52:33,680
Speaker 3: started to abuse their power more. You know, when it

1018
00:52:33,760 --> 00:52:36,160
Speaker 3: started out, it was just a few people, right, and

1019
00:52:36,200 --> 00:52:40,920
Speaker 3: they were still kind of building authority and building their community,

1020
00:52:40,920 --> 00:52:44,319
Speaker 3: and I think it was harder then. But also think

1021
00:52:44,320 --> 00:52:47,600
Speaker 3: about think about as a member, like if you have

1022
00:52:47,800 --> 00:52:51,520
Speaker 3: been through like a year of this coaching, which is

1023
00:52:51,600 --> 00:52:54,120
Speaker 3: telling you to do the mirror exercise and think that

1024
00:52:54,320 --> 00:52:56,600
Speaker 3: everything that happens that's bad to you is your fault.

1025
00:52:57,040 --> 00:52:59,800
Speaker 3: And you are getting more and more connected to the

1026
00:52:59,840 --> 00:53:02,440
Speaker 3: Twin Flames universe, and you're not talking to your family

1027
00:53:02,480 --> 00:53:05,000
Speaker 3: and friends as much, which is very common, right, And

1028
00:53:05,080 --> 00:53:08,640
Speaker 3: sometimes you're directly being told to cut off contact if

1029
00:53:08,680 --> 00:53:11,719
Speaker 3: they're not supportive of your twin Flame journey, right and

1030
00:53:11,760 --> 00:53:14,359
Speaker 3: you are, you know, maybe you quit your job and

1031
00:53:14,400 --> 00:53:16,680
Speaker 3: you're like just a coach for Jeff and Shalia. Like

1032
00:53:16,800 --> 00:53:20,919
Speaker 3: imagine at that point, like how dependent you are on

1033
00:53:21,200 --> 00:53:24,560
Speaker 3: Jeff and Shalia you and it gives them so much

1034
00:53:24,600 --> 00:53:29,319
Speaker 3: more ability to basically like just fuck with you, right, Like,

1035
00:53:29,440 --> 00:53:30,480
Speaker 3: and that's what happened.

1036
00:53:30,680 --> 00:53:34,040
Speaker 2: Obviously, this is always the question with any cult leader

1037
00:53:34,120 --> 00:53:38,080
Speaker 2: and we never know the answer. But like, why you

1038
00:53:38,120 --> 00:53:41,560
Speaker 2: know he's making but he's making the money already, I.

1039
00:53:41,480 --> 00:53:44,440
Speaker 4: Mean, but it does work. Noting they were like essentially homeless.

1040
00:53:44,480 --> 00:53:48,600
Speaker 4: They were living in super shitty place after they'd outworn

1041
00:53:48,640 --> 00:53:51,080
Speaker 4: their welcomes with their family and friends. One of their

1042
00:53:51,080 --> 00:53:53,280
Speaker 4: friends that they ate hot dogs three times.

1043
00:53:53,080 --> 00:53:57,720
Speaker 12: A day so they cray, So they really had nothing

1044
00:53:57,880 --> 00:54:00,200
Speaker 12: and that everything. But then he started, I mean, and

1045
00:54:00,320 --> 00:54:03,680
Speaker 12: Tamerla goes back to that like I can cure cancer claim.

1046
00:54:03,840 --> 00:54:07,680
Speaker 12: That's so obviously something he doesn't believe. Yeah, that makes

1047
00:54:07,680 --> 00:54:10,520
Speaker 12: me think that he's just I don't know her deal.

1048
00:54:10,960 --> 00:54:14,160
Speaker 2: Even after like one hundred however, many episodes of this podcast,

1049
00:54:14,200 --> 00:54:16,160
Speaker 2: I'm still like, but why do you need to control them.

1050
00:54:16,840 --> 00:54:19,200
Speaker 2: Just take the money. It's fine, This money is enough.

1051
00:54:19,320 --> 00:54:21,640
Speaker 6: Yeah, yeah, you know, I think power just got to

1052
00:54:21,719 --> 00:54:22,400
Speaker 6: their heads.

1053
00:54:22,640 --> 00:54:25,720
Speaker 8: Like I think it's clear to see that these weren't

1054
00:54:25,880 --> 00:54:29,640
Speaker 8: they were always on the outskirts of life. You know,

1055
00:54:29,880 --> 00:54:32,719
Speaker 8: they weren't the popular kids. They weren't surrounded by a

1056
00:54:32,760 --> 00:54:37,080
Speaker 8: lot of love and family and support, and they'd experienced

1057
00:54:37,120 --> 00:54:40,439
Speaker 8: trauma in their own sense. And I think when they

1058
00:54:41,000 --> 00:54:43,919
Speaker 8: saw that they'd created this community of people that could

1059
00:54:44,000 --> 00:54:46,919
Speaker 8: adore them, that love them. You know, Shlia would paint

1060
00:54:47,000 --> 00:54:49,280
Speaker 8: something and sell it for one thousand.

1061
00:54:48,840 --> 00:54:50,239
Speaker 6: Pounds and auction it off.

1062
00:54:50,360 --> 00:54:54,120
Speaker 8: You know, she made her feel good about herself on

1063
00:54:54,160 --> 00:54:56,880
Speaker 8: her Instagram when she posts about her baby, all of

1064
00:54:56,920 --> 00:54:59,920
Speaker 8: these things. She's receiving a lot of love from this community,

1065
00:55:00,160 --> 00:55:02,880
Speaker 8: from the comfort of her own home, and her dreams

1066
00:55:02,920 --> 00:55:06,320
Speaker 8: are essentially coming true by people who keep funneling money

1067
00:55:06,520 --> 00:55:08,320
Speaker 8: into this idea of twin Flames.

1068
00:55:08,640 --> 00:55:11,560
Speaker 4: Now they have a lot of money and they're flaunting

1069
00:55:11,600 --> 00:55:14,920
Speaker 4: it everywhere, and I mean in ways that are almost

1070
00:55:15,280 --> 00:55:18,080
Speaker 4: a little bit humorous. If either of you want us it,

1071
00:55:18,120 --> 00:55:19,280
Speaker 4: I mean, it's so cringe.

1072
00:55:20,880 --> 00:55:21,240
Speaker 6: Sure.

1073
00:55:21,719 --> 00:55:23,920
Speaker 3: I'll tell a little anecdote about that, which is like

1074
00:55:24,160 --> 00:55:27,600
Speaker 3: in the very first Zoom interview I did with Jeff

1075
00:55:27,600 --> 00:55:30,080
Speaker 3: and Sheliah, like is the very first time I'm talking

1076
00:55:30,080 --> 00:55:33,080
Speaker 3: to them and like and you know, we have been

1077
00:55:33,120 --> 00:55:35,799
Speaker 3: corresponding via email and then we're finally on Zoom and

1078
00:55:35,840 --> 00:55:38,000
Speaker 3: it's kind of like a crazy moment because I had

1079
00:55:38,040 --> 00:55:40,239
Speaker 3: watched so many hours of their content and here they

1080
00:55:40,239 --> 00:55:43,800
Speaker 3: are like answering my questions and interacting with me. During

1081
00:55:43,800 --> 00:55:46,560
Speaker 3: that interview, Jeff is like they dressed up for that interview.

1082
00:55:46,600 --> 00:55:48,880
Speaker 3: They were like wearing I was wearing. I forget what

1083
00:55:48,920 --> 00:55:51,080
Speaker 3: I was wearing. I'm at my house, so I wasn't

1084
00:55:51,120 --> 00:55:52,920
Speaker 3: like particularly dressed up. But Jeff's in a suit and

1085
00:55:53,040 --> 00:55:55,480
Speaker 3: sheally is in like a dress and like makeup blah

1086
00:55:55,480 --> 00:55:58,200
Speaker 3: blah blah. And during the interview, he like opens his

1087
00:55:58,400 --> 00:56:02,600
Speaker 3: like suit jacket and he's like VERSACEI no, like apropos

1088
00:56:02,440 --> 00:56:10,319
Speaker 3: of nothing, Oh my god, like or apropos of he

1089
00:56:10,400 --> 00:56:12,680
Speaker 3: wants me to know he's a big deal. Yeah right,

1090
00:56:12,840 --> 00:56:15,960
Speaker 3: Like that's what he's trying to say. So this is

1091
00:56:16,000 --> 00:56:19,719
Speaker 3: like this is how they are, Like they do this

1092
00:56:19,840 --> 00:56:21,840
Speaker 3: in their own videos too. They don't just do this

1093
00:56:21,880 --> 00:56:22,120
Speaker 3: to me.

1094
00:56:22,360 --> 00:56:26,400
Speaker 2: That status obviously is like very important to them. Once

1095
00:56:26,480 --> 00:56:28,680
Speaker 2: you have that group of people who's hanging on to

1096
00:56:28,760 --> 00:56:30,960
Speaker 2: your every word and giving you their money, if they

1097
00:56:31,000 --> 00:56:33,719
Speaker 2: start to doubt or question in any way, then it

1098
00:56:33,760 --> 00:56:35,520
Speaker 2: makes sense, I guess that you have to feel the

1099
00:56:35,560 --> 00:56:37,440
Speaker 2: need to like tighten that control over them because you

1100
00:56:37,440 --> 00:56:38,440
Speaker 2: don't want to lose that power.

1101
00:56:38,480 --> 00:56:40,759
Speaker 4: Now they dont have anybody insults and they block them.

1102
00:56:40,800 --> 00:56:44,680
Speaker 4: They're gone, they're whatever, they're outs, and they're just living

1103
00:56:44,680 --> 00:56:48,319
Speaker 4: in this echo change exile. Yeah, yeah, you're great, You're great.

1104
00:56:48,360 --> 00:56:51,520
Speaker 4: And now they live in a freaking mansion with as

1105
00:56:51,760 --> 00:56:57,359
Speaker 4: I say, Porsche says Porsche whatever, you know, just cars, corvettes.

1106
00:56:57,560 --> 00:56:58,760
Speaker 4: It's it's wild.

1107
00:56:59,040 --> 00:57:05,400
Speaker 2: It's yeah. The gender identity coercion we should touch on.

1108
00:57:06,000 --> 00:57:08,520
Speaker 2: They had this idea of the divine masculine and the

1109
00:57:08,520 --> 00:57:11,880
Speaker 2: divine feminine, but eighty percent of the members are women.

1110
00:57:12,520 --> 00:57:16,120
Speaker 2: Oh sorry, before like there was matchmaking going on, actually, Alice,

1111
00:57:16,120 --> 00:57:16,960
Speaker 2: can you talk about that?

1112
00:57:17,360 --> 00:57:21,080
Speaker 3: Yeah, so this is something that started actually right around

1113
00:57:21,120 --> 00:57:24,440
Speaker 3: the time I was reporting my original story for Vanity Fair.

1114
00:57:25,360 --> 00:57:27,240
Speaker 7: So I wrote an article about this before.

1115
00:57:27,000 --> 00:57:29,800
Speaker 3: We made the docu series that's now out on Prime Video.

1116
00:57:29,920 --> 00:57:30,720
Speaker 7: But yeah, so.

1117
00:57:32,520 --> 00:57:36,080
Speaker 3: They were taking people who were in the organization who

1118
00:57:36,080 --> 00:57:40,000
Speaker 3: had not found their twin flame, and they were saying, actually,

1119
00:57:40,040 --> 00:57:42,680
Speaker 3: we figured it out, like your twin flame wasn't who

1120
00:57:42,720 --> 00:57:45,000
Speaker 3: you thought. It was, like, it's this other person in

1121
00:57:45,040 --> 00:57:48,800
Speaker 3: the group. And they were then like saying, you need

1122
00:57:48,800 --> 00:57:51,240
Speaker 3: to get married. These people were having marriages. There were

1123
00:57:51,280 --> 00:57:54,080
Speaker 3: like lots of videos of these people's like they were

1124
00:57:54,080 --> 00:57:55,040
Speaker 3: making videos about.

1125
00:57:54,880 --> 00:57:55,720
Speaker 7: Their lives together.

1126
00:57:55,840 --> 00:57:58,880
Speaker 3: There were all of these new, like dozens of new

1127
00:57:58,960 --> 00:58:02,240
Speaker 3: twin Flame couples that were matched up by Jeff and

1128
00:58:02,240 --> 00:58:05,480
Speaker 3: Shalia all around the same time in twenty twenty, and

1129
00:58:05,560 --> 00:58:08,120
Speaker 3: so this was happening as I was writing the article.

1130
00:58:08,680 --> 00:58:12,440
Speaker 3: It was super interesting, obviously, And the other facet of

1131
00:58:12,440 --> 00:58:15,640
Speaker 3: that that you alluded to was that these twin Flame

1132
00:58:15,680 --> 00:58:19,560
Speaker 3: couples that were being matched did not align with people's

1133
00:58:20,320 --> 00:58:24,440
Speaker 3: stated sexual orientations and gender identities. So they were matching

1134
00:58:24,480 --> 00:58:27,720
Speaker 3: people kind of irrespective of the gender that they were

1135
00:58:27,760 --> 00:58:33,520
Speaker 3: seeking in a partner. And so you had and you know,

1136
00:58:33,800 --> 00:58:36,920
Speaker 3: that's one of the worst aspects of twin Flames universe,

1137
00:58:36,960 --> 00:58:39,360
Speaker 3: and one of the most abusive aspects in my opinion,

1138
00:58:39,480 --> 00:58:43,200
Speaker 3: is that is this conversion therapy type practice. And so

1139
00:58:43,880 --> 00:58:46,040
Speaker 3: you know, they were saying that you have to be

1140
00:58:46,120 --> 00:58:48,600
Speaker 3: with this person. And then they also did something where

1141
00:58:48,640 --> 00:58:50,960
Speaker 3: they would tell some of the members of the couple

1142
00:58:51,400 --> 00:58:55,760
Speaker 3: to change their gender identity because of this ideology that

1143
00:58:55,800 --> 00:58:58,760
Speaker 3: they have where every twin flame couple is a divine

1144
00:58:58,760 --> 00:59:03,000
Speaker 3: masculine and a divine eminine, right, so these couples have

1145
00:59:03,080 --> 00:59:06,960
Speaker 3: to be kind of divinely heterosexual, whatever that means. But

1146
00:59:07,120 --> 00:59:09,439
Speaker 3: what it ended up translating to, you know, at first

1147
00:59:09,480 --> 00:59:11,080
Speaker 3: they said, oh, well, this is really just an idea.

1148
00:59:11,120 --> 00:59:14,240
Speaker 3: It's more of a metaphor. This is more your spiritual gender.

1149
00:59:14,280 --> 00:59:15,920
Speaker 3: It's not anything to do with how you live your

1150
00:59:15,960 --> 00:59:18,920
Speaker 3: life or your body or anything like that. But it

1151
00:59:18,960 --> 00:59:22,760
Speaker 3: became much more literal, and then they use that to say, well, oh,

1152
00:59:22,800 --> 00:59:25,320
Speaker 3: you're the divine masculine in this twin flame couple, and

1153
00:59:25,400 --> 00:59:28,000
Speaker 3: you actually need to change your name and pronouns, and

1154
00:59:28,800 --> 00:59:31,320
Speaker 3: you need to have your kids call you dad, and

1155
00:59:31,480 --> 00:59:33,680
Speaker 3: we are telling you that you need to change your gender.

1156
00:59:33,720 --> 00:59:36,400
Speaker 3: So this is where it became what it became.

1157
00:59:36,720 --> 00:59:39,280
Speaker 4: I mean, essentially, what happened is that you have this

1158
00:59:39,360 --> 00:59:41,240
Speaker 4: group of people who've been paying a lot of money

1159
00:59:41,280 --> 00:59:44,439
Speaker 4: for years and no one's coupling up, and they start

1160
00:59:44,480 --> 00:59:46,600
Speaker 4: to panic and think, holy shit.

1161
00:59:46,520 --> 00:59:51,480
Speaker 11: Where's my yeah here, And so they come to the

1162
00:59:51,640 --> 00:59:54,280
Speaker 11: conclusion of like, pair up the people who are already

1163
00:59:54,320 --> 00:59:56,080
Speaker 11: looking in or who already in our group, and maybe

1164
00:59:56,120 --> 00:59:57,360
Speaker 11: a little bit more susceptible.

1165
00:59:57,600 --> 01:00:00,840
Speaker 2: And then and also that keeps them within the group,

1166
01:00:01,520 --> 01:00:03,560
Speaker 2: which is which is then better under control.

1167
01:00:03,720 --> 01:00:06,439
Speaker 4: All the cast last fallacy people have already been through

1168
01:00:06,520 --> 01:00:09,040
Speaker 4: where they're like, Okay, I guess I'll try this, like

1169
01:00:09,120 --> 01:00:11,600
Speaker 4: my family is already mad at me or like whatever,

1170
01:00:11,720 --> 01:00:12,560
Speaker 4: like I have to make that.

1171
01:00:12,720 --> 01:00:12,959
Speaker 7: Yeah.

1172
01:00:13,160 --> 01:00:16,360
Speaker 8: Yeah, they've already invested so much. It just seems like

1173
01:00:16,680 --> 01:00:18,920
Speaker 8: I can't you know, I can't go turn back now.

1174
01:00:19,000 --> 01:00:20,480
Speaker 8: Maybe this is part of it.

1175
01:00:20,600 --> 01:00:22,880
Speaker 2: Right the rain were you in it during that period?

1176
01:00:23,280 --> 01:00:29,800
Speaker 8: I left when that was starting, So where oh gosh?

1177
01:00:29,880 --> 01:00:32,880
Speaker 8: I left just before they did their workshops to Canada,

1178
01:00:32,920 --> 01:00:38,000
Speaker 8: actually because Jeff actually messaged me specifically because the guy

1179
01:00:38,040 --> 01:00:40,440
Speaker 8: that he'd confirmed was my twin flame had joined the group.

1180
01:00:40,800 --> 01:00:43,520
Speaker 8: He was watching the videos. He was also speaking to

1181
01:00:43,640 --> 01:00:45,840
Speaker 8: Jeff and he said, come to Canada. We'd love for

1182
01:00:45,880 --> 01:00:48,640
Speaker 8: you to be there. This is going to be important

1183
01:00:48,680 --> 01:00:51,240
Speaker 8: for you. This is this could be potentially where you

1184
01:00:51,320 --> 01:00:53,360
Speaker 8: reach your harmonious twin flame union.

1185
01:00:55,480 --> 01:00:58,240
Speaker 6: And he then was.

1186
01:00:58,160 --> 01:01:03,320
Speaker 8: Starting to recon firm other people within the group. So

1187
01:01:04,280 --> 01:01:06,360
Speaker 8: that's when I said, you know, I'm not going to

1188
01:01:06,440 --> 01:01:10,280
Speaker 8: go to Canada, and that's when I left. So Canada workshops.

1189
01:01:10,360 --> 01:01:13,360
Speaker 8: Whenever that time was, it escapes me before.

1190
01:01:13,640 --> 01:01:17,760
Speaker 3: I think it was maybe yeah, I'm not sure either. Yeah, Toronto,

1191
01:01:17,840 --> 01:01:18,880
Speaker 3: it was the Toronto.

1192
01:01:19,560 --> 01:01:20,480
Speaker 7: Yeah, yeah, Yeah.

1193
01:01:20,520 --> 01:01:24,640
Speaker 2: There's some harrowing video in the dock of Ann and

1194
01:01:24,680 --> 01:01:28,640
Speaker 2: I forget her partner's name, Katrina Trina, where he starts

1195
01:01:28,720 --> 01:01:33,200
Speaker 2: telling Anne that she's actually Dan and she's like, no,

1196
01:01:33,400 --> 01:01:36,920
Speaker 2: that doesn't resonate, and then he tells her she's playing

1197
01:01:36,920 --> 01:01:39,320
Speaker 2: the avoidance game and she just keeps saying she doesn't

1198
01:01:39,400 --> 01:01:41,160
Speaker 2: like the name Dan, and then he starts calling her

1199
01:01:41,280 --> 01:01:44,360
Speaker 2: and the man and I know a pissed off man

1200
01:01:44,400 --> 01:01:46,080
Speaker 2: when I see one, and it's you, and just like

1201
01:01:46,360 --> 01:01:49,920
Speaker 2: fully like abusing this woman and telling her her gender

1202
01:01:50,040 --> 01:01:53,560
Speaker 2: identity is wrong and he knows better. It's just so

1203
01:01:53,760 --> 01:01:55,720
Speaker 2: fucked up on so many levels. And you know, I

1204
01:01:55,760 --> 01:01:58,720
Speaker 2: can't remember, did she she's Anne now? But did she

1205
01:01:59,000 --> 01:02:00,800
Speaker 2: become Dan for a period? Nod?

1206
01:02:01,000 --> 01:02:03,720
Speaker 3: She left she left the group, Yeah, So, which I

1207
01:02:03,720 --> 01:02:06,840
Speaker 3: would say is actually, yeah, it's kind of the typical

1208
01:02:07,280 --> 01:02:09,880
Speaker 3: path I would say when Jeff and Salia would say

1209
01:02:09,920 --> 01:02:12,920
Speaker 3: to people, you need to change your name in pronouns,

1210
01:02:12,920 --> 01:02:16,040
Speaker 3: and we have this new gender for you. Most people

1211
01:02:16,680 --> 01:02:19,080
Speaker 3: that was the exit journey for a lot of those people,

1212
01:02:19,120 --> 01:02:22,760
Speaker 3: because you know you and and there are some people

1213
01:02:22,960 --> 01:02:26,280
Speaker 3: who stayed, but most people left, like Anne.

1214
01:02:26,360 --> 01:02:26,840
Speaker 7: Yeah.

1215
01:02:26,920 --> 01:02:29,280
Speaker 2: Yeah, And the doctor does a great job of describing

1216
01:02:29,320 --> 01:02:32,360
Speaker 2: how this is sort of the opposite of what gender

1217
01:02:32,360 --> 01:02:34,919
Speaker 2: identity is supposed to be, which is coming from you

1218
01:02:35,000 --> 01:02:37,880
Speaker 2: as a person and not coming from anyone outside of you.

1219
01:02:38,240 --> 01:02:41,560
Speaker 2: And yeah, it's just incredibly abusive, the whole thing.

1220
01:02:41,960 --> 01:02:43,840
Speaker 3: Yeah, And I think it's important to note this is

1221
01:02:43,840 --> 01:02:45,760
Speaker 3: probably clear if you have to documentary, but Jeff and

1222
01:02:45,800 --> 01:02:48,919
Speaker 3: Sally are cis gender right like they they're not. They're

1223
01:02:48,960 --> 01:02:51,920
Speaker 3: not coming as from a trans perspective or even knowing

1224
01:02:52,080 --> 01:02:54,680
Speaker 3: very much about trans people. So this is, you know,

1225
01:02:54,680 --> 01:02:59,120
Speaker 3: they're they're totally just using this like to basically manipulate

1226
01:02:59,160 --> 01:03:02,560
Speaker 3: people within their organization. And I think that's, you know,

1227
01:03:02,640 --> 01:03:03,200
Speaker 3: important to.

1228
01:03:03,160 --> 01:03:05,560
Speaker 2: Note totally totally it's Yeah.

1229
01:03:05,720 --> 01:03:08,760
Speaker 8: And I think another extra thing is about their child.

1230
01:03:08,960 --> 01:03:11,439
Speaker 8: They've actually said that their child is their third twin

1231
01:03:11,520 --> 01:03:15,640
Speaker 8: flame and she's actually asexual and she's not to take

1232
01:03:15,680 --> 01:03:17,200
Speaker 8: a partner in this lifetime.

1233
01:03:18,120 --> 01:03:21,600
Speaker 6: So she's just new born. She's a newborn.

1234
01:03:21,720 --> 01:03:22,920
Speaker 2: Oh that poor child.

1235
01:03:23,480 --> 01:03:27,000
Speaker 8: Yeah, so she before she was even born, because they

1236
01:03:27,000 --> 01:03:32,360
Speaker 8: were having a lot of conceiving issues, they'd already decided.

1237
01:03:32,440 --> 01:03:34,760
Speaker 8: You know, God has given us her name. Her name

1238
01:03:34,840 --> 01:03:37,680
Speaker 8: is Grace. She's going to be our third twin Flame,

1239
01:03:37,800 --> 01:03:40,720
Speaker 8: so we are actually a trio. She's going to be asexual,

1240
01:03:41,160 --> 01:03:43,640
Speaker 8: and she's part of our spirit, you know, our twin

1241
01:03:43,680 --> 01:03:47,120
Speaker 8: Flame community. So I was like, before she's born, before

1242
01:03:47,120 --> 01:03:50,120
Speaker 8: she gets aside for herself, her life has already been decided.

1243
01:03:50,920 --> 01:03:52,280
Speaker 2: Oh that's so scary.

1244
01:03:52,680 --> 01:03:55,800
Speaker 4: I read somewhere that they're trying to build a commune.

1245
01:03:56,040 --> 01:03:58,480
Speaker 4: Is this confirmed or just rumors on.

1246
01:03:58,520 --> 01:04:01,440
Speaker 6: The boot camp? Maybe I haven't.

1247
01:04:01,560 --> 01:04:02,040
Speaker 7: I haven't.

1248
01:04:02,320 --> 01:04:04,840
Speaker 3: No, I was not able to confirm that, So I'm

1249
01:04:04,880 --> 01:04:07,080
Speaker 3: going to say I don't know about that. I did

1250
01:04:07,120 --> 01:04:10,920
Speaker 3: see posts from several years ago on the open forum

1251
01:04:11,000 --> 01:04:14,600
Speaker 3: where he talked somewhat hypothetically of starting a commune or

1252
01:04:14,640 --> 01:04:18,160
Speaker 3: starting an in person community, and he was kind of

1253
01:04:18,200 --> 01:04:21,600
Speaker 3: serving his online community to see if people would be interested,

1254
01:04:22,080 --> 01:04:25,040
Speaker 3: and people were like, yeah, sure, but nothing was happening

1255
01:04:25,040 --> 01:04:27,840
Speaker 3: with that, And so it's possible that they've resurrected the

1256
01:04:27,880 --> 01:04:31,640
Speaker 3: idea of you know, having people. I mean, yet they do.

1257
01:04:31,920 --> 01:04:33,920
Speaker 3: They have had people live at their house. I mean

1258
01:04:33,960 --> 01:04:36,600
Speaker 3: that's been that's been something that they've had and they've

1259
01:04:36,600 --> 01:04:38,760
Speaker 3: had people live around their house. You know, people live

1260
01:04:38,760 --> 01:04:41,560
Speaker 3: in the in the area. So that is something that.

1261
01:04:41,560 --> 01:04:43,160
Speaker 7: Has already happened to a degree.

1262
01:04:43,800 --> 01:04:46,560
Speaker 3: But it's the minority of people who are part of

1263
01:04:46,560 --> 01:04:50,320
Speaker 3: Twin Flames universe. And I haven't heard anything of I

1264
01:04:50,320 --> 01:04:53,120
Speaker 3: haven't been able to confirm anything or heard anything about

1265
01:04:53,880 --> 01:04:54,760
Speaker 3: multiple partners.

1266
01:04:55,000 --> 01:04:58,400
Speaker 4: Well, it seemed like he was trying to seduce you, Alice, when.

1267
01:04:58,520 --> 01:05:00,760
Speaker 2: You were I was going to say, talk with them.

1268
01:05:02,400 --> 01:05:04,880
Speaker 3: Oh my gosh. Yeah, well that was Yeah, that was

1269
01:05:04,920 --> 01:05:07,280
Speaker 3: such a weird experience. There was definitely he was definitely

1270
01:05:07,320 --> 01:05:09,240
Speaker 3: trying something. I felt like they were trying to get

1271
01:05:09,240 --> 01:05:10,120
Speaker 3: you to join the group.

1272
01:05:10,480 --> 01:05:11,120
Speaker 7: And I thought that.

1273
01:05:11,840 --> 01:05:14,440
Speaker 3: My impression was that it was so interesting to me

1274
01:05:14,480 --> 01:05:16,760
Speaker 3: and actually is the thing that makes me think that

1275
01:05:16,880 --> 01:05:20,600
Speaker 3: maybe even Jeff does believe a little of what he's selling.

1276
01:05:20,680 --> 01:05:24,600
Speaker 3: Because I came in. I'm a journalist, like I am,

1277
01:05:24,840 --> 01:05:28,080
Speaker 3: you know, I'm I'm skeptical seeming about some of these things.

1278
01:05:28,080 --> 01:05:30,240
Speaker 3: You know, I'm telling them that I've I've spoken to

1279
01:05:30,440 --> 01:05:33,040
Speaker 3: ex members and you know, I've read posts that say

1280
01:05:33,040 --> 01:05:37,000
Speaker 3: that they're a cult, right, and yet they fully expected

1281
01:05:37,080 --> 01:05:39,640
Speaker 3: based on how they behaved, like it seemed like they

1282
01:05:39,720 --> 01:05:41,640
Speaker 3: really thought they were going to convince me that they

1283
01:05:41,640 --> 01:05:44,320
Speaker 3: were christ and that this was the Second Coming, and

1284
01:05:44,320 --> 01:05:46,360
Speaker 3: that in spite of everything I had read and everyone

1285
01:05:46,360 --> 01:05:48,920
Speaker 3: who I had talked to, that like, I was gonna

1286
01:05:49,080 --> 01:05:51,720
Speaker 3: join twin Flam's universe and I was going to write

1287
01:05:52,000 --> 01:05:55,040
Speaker 3: the story saying that they were everything, that everything that

1288
01:05:55,040 --> 01:05:57,000
Speaker 3: they said was true, and they the way that they

1289
01:05:57,040 --> 01:05:59,120
Speaker 3: treated me seemed like they really believed that they could

1290
01:05:59,120 --> 01:06:03,240
Speaker 3: convince me of that. And I think that only someone

1291
01:06:03,280 --> 01:06:07,360
Speaker 3: who is like extremely diluted could ever come to that conclusion.

1292
01:06:07,600 --> 01:06:11,760
Speaker 4: That is a belief for narcissism. Yeah, what I mean,

1293
01:06:11,840 --> 01:06:13,720
Speaker 4: I mean, I loved what you said at the very end,

1294
01:06:13,760 --> 01:06:16,919
Speaker 4: where you're like, their worldview is now so much set

1295
01:06:16,960 --> 01:06:19,600
Speaker 4: around the universe is only going to bring me good

1296
01:06:19,640 --> 01:06:23,360
Speaker 4: things that obviously this reporter from Vanity Fair is brought

1297
01:06:23,440 --> 01:06:27,040
Speaker 4: to us to spread the message like they've gone that

1298
01:06:27,160 --> 01:06:29,440
Speaker 4: far down the rabbit hole of their own bullshit.

1299
01:06:29,640 --> 01:06:30,600
Speaker 7: And whether or not.

1300
01:06:30,600 --> 01:06:33,480
Speaker 4: That is because I believe that this is a true message,

1301
01:06:33,560 --> 01:06:36,480
Speaker 4: or because I believe I'm actually Christ and I'm the

1302
01:06:36,480 --> 01:06:39,760
Speaker 4: most important person in the world with no real care

1303
01:06:39,920 --> 01:06:40,960
Speaker 4: for anyone else.

1304
01:06:40,960 --> 01:06:44,440
Speaker 2: Is or if it's just convenient because it's serving you

1305
01:06:44,520 --> 01:06:46,680
Speaker 2: and making you money so you might as well believe it,

1306
01:06:46,720 --> 01:06:51,320
Speaker 2: like whatever, Yeah, yeah, where do things stand now? How

1307
01:06:51,360 --> 01:06:55,040
Speaker 2: has the article kind of changed the conversation about this?

1308
01:06:55,160 --> 01:06:56,440
Speaker 2: Are there more members leaving?

1309
01:06:57,160 --> 01:06:59,680
Speaker 3: Well? I think the big thing is the docuseries coming out,

1310
01:07:00,160 --> 01:07:04,520
Speaker 3: Like you know, Our Learning and we both gave interviews

1311
01:07:04,560 --> 01:07:07,640
Speaker 3: for the Stocky series that came out a few weeks ago.

1312
01:07:07,760 --> 01:07:10,800
Speaker 3: I mean, I've gotten a lot of response actually from

1313
01:07:10,840 --> 01:07:13,840
Speaker 3: family members of people in the organization, so that's I

1314
01:07:13,920 --> 01:07:15,520
Speaker 3: know a lot of the I know a lot of

1315
01:07:15,520 --> 01:07:18,000
Speaker 3: them watched it. I also got a lot of response

1316
01:07:18,040 --> 01:07:20,560
Speaker 3: from people who are in similar organizations or who know

1317
01:07:20,640 --> 01:07:23,320
Speaker 3: people who are in organizations that remind them of twin

1318
01:07:23,360 --> 01:07:26,040
Speaker 3: Flames universe. And it just stuck with me that, like,

1319
01:07:26,120 --> 01:07:28,200
Speaker 3: I think that there must be something about our culture

1320
01:07:28,320 --> 01:07:31,680
Speaker 3: right now that is like making so many organizations that

1321
01:07:31,760 --> 01:07:34,960
Speaker 3: are really coercive and manipulate spirituality in this way, it's

1322
01:07:35,000 --> 01:07:39,400
Speaker 3: just projecting them into the universe, and it's so strange

1323
01:07:39,440 --> 01:07:41,880
Speaker 3: how much they're of a pattern there is.

1324
01:07:42,520 --> 01:07:43,840
Speaker 7: So I've been really struck.

1325
01:07:43,560 --> 01:07:45,920
Speaker 3: By that, just like how many things out there that

1326
01:07:46,000 --> 01:07:48,040
Speaker 3: are like twin Flames Universe that I didn't even know

1327
01:07:48,080 --> 01:07:50,640
Speaker 3: about that people are watching and they're saying, Wow, this

1328
01:07:50,760 --> 01:07:51,440
Speaker 3: is the same.

1329
01:07:51,560 --> 01:07:53,720
Speaker 4: They Internet loneliness, the pandemic.

1330
01:07:53,800 --> 01:07:57,160
Speaker 2: There's all of these new Age wellness like self help

1331
01:07:57,640 --> 01:08:00,440
Speaker 2: internet gurus who are telling you that they have answers

1332
01:08:00,480 --> 01:08:03,360
Speaker 2: and they're going to fix you and you're gonna make

1333
01:08:03,440 --> 01:08:05,280
Speaker 2: money or fine, love or whatever the fuck it is.

1334
01:08:05,320 --> 01:08:07,360
Speaker 2: There's so much of that happening right now.

1335
01:08:07,400 --> 01:08:09,240
Speaker 4: We used to be like working out in a field

1336
01:08:09,360 --> 01:08:12,760
Speaker 4: or something to be too busy to like really follow

1337
01:08:12,800 --> 01:08:15,439
Speaker 4: it through, you know, like working out in the field

1338
01:08:15,520 --> 01:08:17,640
Speaker 4: maybe as a bad example. I'm from Kansas, so there

1339
01:08:17,680 --> 01:08:20,320
Speaker 4: was a lot of farmers. But we used to you know,

1340
01:08:20,439 --> 01:08:23,479
Speaker 4: like be working with our hands or like more busy

1341
01:08:23,800 --> 01:08:28,000
Speaker 4: like offline, offline, yeah than we are now.

1342
01:08:28,120 --> 01:08:30,400
Speaker 2: So yeah, so we need answers.

1343
01:08:30,560 --> 01:08:32,680
Speaker 3: Yeah, Lorraine, what do you think is happening? Like I have,

1344
01:08:32,960 --> 01:08:35,479
Speaker 3: I've been checking to see if the community has responsed.

1345
01:08:35,479 --> 01:08:38,360
Speaker 3: They they haven't really like given up. I think they

1346
01:08:38,439 --> 01:08:41,200
Speaker 3: posted something on their website like saying, you know, where

1347
01:08:41,360 --> 01:08:43,280
Speaker 3: we deny these allegations.

1348
01:08:42,720 --> 01:08:45,680
Speaker 7: Or something like that, but it wasn't. I haven't really.

1349
01:08:45,920 --> 01:08:48,840
Speaker 3: Seen any concrete responses from the community to the.

1350
01:08:48,760 --> 01:08:49,280
Speaker 6: To the phone.

1351
01:08:49,360 --> 01:08:53,320
Speaker 8: No, not yet, and I think they're hoping that nothing

1352
01:08:53,400 --> 01:08:55,120
Speaker 8: is going to come of this, that they'll just keep

1353
01:08:55,160 --> 01:08:59,559
Speaker 8: soldiering on. But I have noticed comments of people who

1354
01:08:59,840 --> 01:09:03,639
Speaker 8: you know, taglining and sharing the documentary on the main forum,

1355
01:09:03,760 --> 01:09:05,760
Speaker 8: like you know, these are scammers.

1356
01:09:05,280 --> 01:09:06,360
Speaker 6: Do not be part of this.

1357
01:09:06,560 --> 01:09:09,400
Speaker 8: And obviously they have people watching the Facebook group to

1358
01:09:09,520 --> 01:09:11,599
Speaker 8: sort of delete those comments when they come up, but

1359
01:09:11,640 --> 01:09:13,880
Speaker 8: it's part of the group of you.

1360
01:09:13,840 --> 01:09:15,320
Speaker 6: Know, people who've left the group.

1361
01:09:15,640 --> 01:09:18,160
Speaker 8: I get to see those quite early on, and I

1362
01:09:18,200 --> 01:09:23,000
Speaker 8: think that eventually, when this gets more traction and gets

1363
01:09:23,000 --> 01:09:27,519
Speaker 8: more widespread and gets more well known, that it will

1364
01:09:27,800 --> 01:09:31,960
Speaker 8: dismantle them because eventually they'll have no leg to stand

1365
01:09:32,000 --> 01:09:35,240
Speaker 8: on because they can't refute what's going on. They can't

1366
01:09:35,280 --> 01:09:38,000
Speaker 8: there's no explanation. They can't offer an explanation for what

1367
01:09:38,040 --> 01:09:40,040
Speaker 8: they're doing because it just isn't logical.

1368
01:09:40,280 --> 01:09:43,200
Speaker 3: Although we have you can't really it's like we have

1369
01:09:43,479 --> 01:09:47,200
Speaker 3: like the videos of so it's like, what are you

1370
01:09:47,240 --> 01:09:49,360
Speaker 3: going to say? Like you can't say it didn't happen.

1371
01:09:49,400 --> 01:09:53,720
Speaker 3: We literally have videos that you filmed yourself right that

1372
01:09:53,720 --> 01:09:54,200
Speaker 3: we're saying.

1373
01:09:54,760 --> 01:09:57,000
Speaker 2: I think also the mental gymnastics that you do when

1374
01:09:57,000 --> 01:10:00,760
Speaker 2: you're so entrenched in something and like up it would

1375
01:10:00,760 --> 01:10:03,200
Speaker 2: mean uprooting your life to stop believing in it. I

1376
01:10:03,240 --> 01:10:05,400
Speaker 2: think that can be very powerful for people. We do

1377
01:10:05,439 --> 01:10:07,000
Speaker 2: see a lot of the time that once even the

1378
01:10:07,040 --> 01:10:09,880
Speaker 2: most egregious behaviors are exposed, there's still always an explanation.

1379
01:10:09,880 --> 01:10:12,479
Speaker 2: There's still always a justification. Oh, that was for her

1380
01:10:12,520 --> 01:10:16,280
Speaker 2: own good, like she you know, ultimately it taught her something,

1381
01:10:16,360 --> 01:10:18,840
Speaker 2: she healed, you know, There's always going to be some

1382
01:10:18,920 --> 01:10:22,280
Speaker 2: of that. So but I hope that the doc reaches

1383
01:10:22,520 --> 01:10:24,920
Speaker 2: a lot of people and that some of them will leave.

1384
01:10:25,320 --> 01:10:28,200
Speaker 2: And it's a really excellent documentary. And yeah, I thank

1385
01:10:28,200 --> 01:10:28,559
Speaker 2: you guys.

1386
01:10:28,760 --> 01:10:33,760
Speaker 4: I've watched it three times so cannot recommend it enough everybody,

1387
01:10:33,800 --> 01:10:38,080
Speaker 4: And it is just so lovely and cool, like you said,

1388
01:10:38,240 --> 01:10:41,800
Speaker 4: and you just are rooting for everyone, And Lauran, we're

1389
01:10:41,800 --> 01:10:43,920
Speaker 4: so proud of you for getting out of there in

1390
01:10:43,960 --> 01:10:46,439
Speaker 4: your life back and I'm almost like you should started

1391
01:10:46,479 --> 01:10:48,920
Speaker 4: coaching business for people getting out of it, But that's

1392
01:10:49,120 --> 01:10:53,720
Speaker 4: just me again. Trying to make a new cult, so yeah,

1393
01:10:54,320 --> 01:10:55,200
Speaker 4: not say that.

1394
01:10:56,560 --> 01:10:59,200
Speaker 6: Yeah, I thought about sucking my uncle after this.

1395
01:11:01,080 --> 01:11:03,080
Speaker 2: There's a lot of money to be made, Lorraine.

1396
01:11:03,280 --> 01:11:05,280
Speaker 6: Yeah, exactly, I'm missing out.

1397
01:11:07,000 --> 01:11:09,639
Speaker 2: Cool. Can you remind us what the doc is called

1398
01:11:09,680 --> 01:11:11,000
Speaker 2: and where people can find it?

1399
01:11:11,280 --> 01:11:15,519
Speaker 3: Yeah, so it's called Desperately Seeking Soulmate Escaping twin Flames

1400
01:11:15,600 --> 01:11:18,519
Speaker 3: Universe and you can watch it on Prime Video.

1401
01:11:18,880 --> 01:11:20,639
Speaker 2: And are you both on social media?

1402
01:11:20,760 --> 01:11:23,960
Speaker 3: I'm on social media. People listening can follow me on

1403
01:11:24,040 --> 01:11:28,320
Speaker 3: Instagram at Alice Hines Underscore as well as on TikTok. Yeah,

1404
01:11:28,320 --> 01:11:30,479
Speaker 3: and I have new stories coming out all the time.

1405
01:11:30,640 --> 01:11:33,840
Speaker 2: So awesome. Well, thanks so much both of you for

1406
01:11:34,080 --> 01:11:35,040
Speaker 2: talking with us today.

1407
01:11:35,200 --> 01:11:35,960
Speaker 6: Thank you, thank you.

1408
01:11:36,600 --> 01:11:43,240
Speaker 2: All Right, Oh that's the end of that, Megan, So

1409
01:11:43,320 --> 01:11:45,320
Speaker 2: it's time for the question what do you think would

1410
01:11:45,320 --> 01:11:46,719
Speaker 2: you join twin Flames?

1411
01:11:47,479 --> 01:11:49,479
Speaker 5: So what I joined twin Flame Universe?

1412
01:11:49,960 --> 01:11:52,240
Speaker 1: Uh, it did seem like it had a lot of

1413
01:11:52,240 --> 01:11:59,600
Speaker 1: things I really like, people on meetings talking about spiritual growth, community,

1414
01:12:00,080 --> 01:12:00,960
Speaker 1: cool people.

1415
01:12:00,680 --> 01:12:01,719
Speaker 5: From all over the world.

1416
01:12:02,360 --> 01:12:04,000
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean there was a lot of there was

1417
01:12:04,040 --> 01:12:06,400
Speaker 1: a lot of really interesting things about it. Twin Flame

1418
01:12:06,560 --> 01:12:08,840
Speaker 1: is something that I've totally believed in in my life

1419
01:12:09,080 --> 01:12:13,280
Speaker 1: and could totally could see myself getting sucked into a

1420
01:12:13,280 --> 01:12:15,280
Speaker 1: world where it took up a lot of my life.

1421
01:12:15,680 --> 01:12:19,479
Speaker 2: Yeah yeah, yeah, yeah, I could see that for you.

1422
01:12:19,600 --> 01:12:21,760
Speaker 2: Yeah yeah, yeah, that would be that would be one

1423
01:12:21,800 --> 01:12:25,040
Speaker 2: for you, I feel like, yeah, but yeah, but I

1424
01:12:25,040 --> 01:12:27,320
Speaker 2: don't think it would be my specific cult.

1425
01:12:27,880 --> 01:12:27,960
Speaker 4: No.

1426
01:12:28,800 --> 01:12:32,559
Speaker 2: Yeah, twin flames not really as weird in the episode,

1427
01:12:32,680 --> 01:12:36,760
Speaker 2: not really an idea that I click with. But but

1428
01:12:36,840 --> 01:12:40,519
Speaker 2: what I do click with is loneliness wanting to find

1429
01:12:40,520 --> 01:12:43,519
Speaker 2: the right person for you, totally wanting to, you know,

1430
01:12:43,720 --> 01:12:46,800
Speaker 2: feel like there's some deeper, greater meaning or thing that

1431
01:12:46,840 --> 01:12:49,200
Speaker 2: you're supposed to do or person you're supposed to meet,

1432
01:12:49,720 --> 01:12:52,200
Speaker 2: and someone has some guidance to help you get there.

1433
01:12:52,240 --> 01:12:54,559
Speaker 2: If that sounds awesome, Yeah, I want that.

1434
01:12:55,120 --> 01:12:57,639
Speaker 1: And some people who haven't seen the episode, it's easy.

1435
01:12:57,960 --> 01:13:01,439
Speaker 1: I mean one of the women was like a scientist

1436
01:13:01,520 --> 01:13:05,519
Speaker 1: at Stanford, you know, don't write off people in this group.

1437
01:13:06,520 --> 01:13:08,960
Speaker 2: Well, it happens a lot, man, happens a lot.

1438
01:13:09,680 --> 01:13:12,240
Speaker 1: Yeah, So that was a that was a wild episode.

1439
01:13:12,520 --> 01:13:12,960
Speaker 7: Yeah.

1440
01:13:13,120 --> 01:13:15,760
Speaker 1: Oh all right, all right, thank you for spending another

1441
01:13:15,800 --> 01:13:17,800
Speaker 1: week here with us. We can't wait to see you

1442
01:13:17,840 --> 01:13:21,000
Speaker 1: again next week. As always, remember to follow your gut,

1443
01:13:21,080 --> 01:13:22,920
Speaker 1: watch out for red Flags.

1444
01:13:22,560 --> 01:13:24,640
Speaker 2: And never ever trust me.

1445
01:13:25,120 --> 01:13:28,440
Speaker 1: Bye Bye.

1446
01:13:30,240 --> 01:13:32,920
Speaker 2: Trust Me is produced by Kirsten Woodward, Gabby Rapp and

1447
01:13:32,960 --> 01:13:34,360
Speaker 2: Steve Delemator.

1448
01:13:33,920 --> 01:13:35,879
Speaker 1: With special thanks to Stacy Para.

1449
01:13:35,800 --> 01:13:38,240
Speaker 2: And our theme song was composed by Holly amber Church.

1450
01:13:38,439 --> 01:13:41,320
Speaker 1: You can find us on Instagram at trust Me Podcast,

1451
01:13:41,479 --> 01:13:44,840
Speaker 1: Twitter at trust Me Cult Pod, or on TikTok at

1452
01:13:44,920 --> 01:13:46,560
Speaker 1: trust Me Cult Podcast.

1453
01:13:46,760 --> 01:13:50,120
Speaker 2: I'm Oola Lola on Instagram and oh La Lola on Twitter.

1454
01:13:49,840 --> 01:13:53,400
Speaker 1: And I am Megan Elizabeth eleven on Instagram and Babraham

1455
01:13:53,560 --> 01:13:54,599
Speaker 1: Hicks on Twitter.

1456
01:13:54,800 --> 01:14:02,320
Speaker 2: Remember to rate and review and spread the word.