WEBVTT - Epstein, Denied Bail as Danger to Community

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<v Speaker 1>Welcome to the Bloomberg Law Podcast. I'm June Grosso. Every

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<v Speaker 1>day we bring you insight an analysis into the most

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<v Speaker 1>important legal news of the day. You can find more

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<v Speaker 1>episodes of the Bloomberg Law Podcast on Apple podcast, SoundCloud

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<v Speaker 1>and on Bloomberg dot com slash podcast. Jeffrey Epstein will

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<v Speaker 1>remain behind bars while he awaits trial on sex trafficking charges.

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<v Speaker 1>Manhattan Federal Judge Richard Berman said this morning that prosecutors

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<v Speaker 1>had established that Epstein posed a flight risk, and that

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<v Speaker 1>was at the heart of his decision not to grant

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<v Speaker 1>him bail. Joining me as former federal prosecutor Robert Mints,

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<v Speaker 1>a partner McCarter and English Bob, Epstein asked to be

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<v Speaker 1>allowed to await trial at his Manhattan mansion, with electronic

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<v Speaker 1>monitoring and a private security team, and pledging his fortune

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<v Speaker 1>of at least five hundred million dollars as collateral. It

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<v Speaker 1>was expected that he wouldn't get home detention. But explain

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<v Speaker 1>why his case is different from say Bernie made Off

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<v Speaker 1>or Dominique strauss Khan, who got to stay in what

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<v Speaker 1>prosecutors referred to as a gilded cage. Well, it really

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<v Speaker 1>is a decision that is up to the discretion of

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<v Speaker 1>the judge. Tune. So different judges may view the same

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<v Speaker 1>facts and circumstances differently, and some may allow a defendant

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<v Speaker 1>to remain in home confinement leading up to trial. But

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<v Speaker 1>in this case, the facts here really checked off so

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<v Speaker 1>many of the boxes that would give a judge concern

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<v Speaker 1>about risk of flight and danger to the community that

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<v Speaker 1>it was not a surprise that Judge Berman did not

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<v Speaker 1>allow him out. The fact that he had so many

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<v Speaker 1>assets at his disposal, cash and diamonds, he had houses

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<v Speaker 1>all over the country but also internationally. Uh, and I

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<v Speaker 1>think the judge was concerned about the fact that there

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<v Speaker 1>was a false passport in his possession in the safe

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<v Speaker 1>when agents went in and rated his house. Those are

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<v Speaker 1>the kinds of things that will give any judge pause

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<v Speaker 1>before he would allow a defendant in a high profile

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<v Speaker 1>case like this to remain out on bail and under

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<v Speaker 1>those string in terms for home confinement. Also the danger

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<v Speaker 1>to alleged and potential victims. Two alleged victims testified during

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<v Speaker 1>Monday's bail hearing pleading with the judge not to grant

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<v Speaker 1>Epstein bail. That almost made it impossible, didn't it. For

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<v Speaker 1>the judge to grant bail here. That absolutely was a

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<v Speaker 1>major factor. While while prosecutors made the argument that Epstein

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<v Speaker 1>was an extreme flight risk, and they said he posed

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<v Speaker 1>an overwhelming risk of flight, it really seemed to be

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<v Speaker 1>the danger to the community pronged that the judge looked

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<v Speaker 1>at that really swayed his decision. In fact, he testified

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<v Speaker 1>the judge said today that it was at the heart

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<v Speaker 1>of his decision and he heard, as you said, from

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<v Speaker 1>those two alleged victims about the conduct that they alleged

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<v Speaker 1>Mr Epstein was engaged in. And the judge also knew about,

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<v Speaker 1>uh some evidence that Mr Epstein had wired threety dollars

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<v Speaker 1>to two potential witnesses, which also raised the question of

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<v Speaker 1>potential witness tampering. So all of that I think weighed

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<v Speaker 1>heavily on the judge on the danger to the community

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<v Speaker 1>prong here and also played a significant role in his

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<v Speaker 1>ultimate decision. So Epstein's lawyers can seek a review before

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<v Speaker 1>the Federal Appeals Court in Manhattan. But is that really

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<v Speaker 1>a waste of time and money? Not that Epstein cares

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<v Speaker 1>about the money aspect of it. Well, it's an important

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<v Speaker 1>issue because obviously the defendant does not want to remain

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<v Speaker 1>in jail leading up to his trial, and from the

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<v Speaker 1>standpoint of the defense lawyers, it is much more difficult

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<v Speaker 1>to prepare a client for trial when you have to

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<v Speaker 1>go to jail every time to meet with him rather

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<v Speaker 1>than to meet with him in his house or in

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<v Speaker 1>your office. So it's likely they will take that shot.

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<v Speaker 1>But on the other hand, this is a discretionary call.

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<v Speaker 1>It's something that is largely left to the judge at

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<v Speaker 1>the trial level, so it's highly unlikely that the appeals

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<v Speaker 1>will overturn Judge Burman's decision. Judge Berman isn't known to

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<v Speaker 1>be a fan of home detention for rich defendants. In

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<v Speaker 1>six there was a similar request for home detention for

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<v Speaker 1>a rich defendant, and he said it was unreasonable because

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<v Speaker 1>it helps to foster inequity and unequal treatment in favor

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<v Speaker 1>of a very small cohort of criminal defendants who are

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<v Speaker 1>extremely wealthy. But wealthy defendants have advantages at every stage

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<v Speaker 1>of a trial proceeding because they have so many resources,

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<v Speaker 1>so should a judge treat them differently at the bail stage. Well,

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<v Speaker 1>they are treated differently to the extent that one of

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<v Speaker 1>the issues and bail is risk of flight, and one

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<v Speaker 1>of the ways to rebut risk of flight is to

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<v Speaker 1>post significant assets that will be seized by the government

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<v Speaker 1>if you don't show up a trial. So almost by definition,

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<v Speaker 1>those with more assets to post have a better chance

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<v Speaker 1>of getting out of jail, but you're getting out of

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<v Speaker 1>jail pre trial leading up to the actual trial. But

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<v Speaker 1>as you pointed out, Tune, this particular judge see to

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<v Speaker 1>be concerned about what appears to be a two tiered

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<v Speaker 1>system of justice here because in that similar case you're

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<v Speaker 1>referring to, the judge said, that's that it's fostered inequity

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<v Speaker 1>and unequal treatment in favor of a very small group

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<v Speaker 1>of defendants, those who could not only post significant assets,

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<v Speaker 1>but also someone who could pay for twenty four hour security,

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<v Speaker 1>which really narrows that down to a very small group

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<v Speaker 1>of defendants. Bob Judge Berman said that his opinion would

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<v Speaker 1>be available fairly soon. It's going to be a thirty

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<v Speaker 1>to thirty four page opinion. Is that a normal length

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<v Speaker 1>or a usual length for a bail hearing. Well, it's

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<v Speaker 1>a little more involved than the usual bail hearing. But

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<v Speaker 1>there are a lot of issues here because there are

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<v Speaker 1>a lot of facts that relate to the potential flight

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<v Speaker 1>risk here has to do with all of his assets.

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<v Speaker 1>The judgment was apparently not particularly satisfied with the disclosure

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<v Speaker 1>made by the defendant, so I think there was some

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<v Speaker 1>concern that there may be other assets out there that

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<v Speaker 1>weren't disclosed. There were significant amounts of cash, there were diamonds.

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<v Speaker 1>There was the rate on his house which found uh

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<v Speaker 1>a lewd photographs of would appear to be underage girls,

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<v Speaker 1>which also concerned the judge. So there's a lot of

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<v Speaker 1>issues that I think the judge wants to be very

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<v Speaker 1>careful to make sure that his written opinion addresses each

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<v Speaker 1>and every one of those things, because he knows there's

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<v Speaker 1>a possibility that the defendants will take this up on appeal,

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<v Speaker 1>and he wants to create a very good record for

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<v Speaker 1>the appeals court to take a look at this issue.

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<v Speaker 1>Just about thirty seconds here. But is this a big

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<v Speaker 1>advantage for the prosecution. Absolutely. It would have been I

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<v Speaker 1>think a major setback to allow this defendant to remain

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<v Speaker 1>out on bail uh pending his trial only because the

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<v Speaker 1>expectation was so high that the judge would not release him.

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<v Speaker 1>So he would have given the prosecutors a shot at

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<v Speaker 1>the very beginning of the trial that favored the defense,

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<v Speaker 1>and that was not something that they wanted to start

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<v Speaker 1>off with and what's going to be a very contentious

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<v Speaker 1>and expensive trial. Thanks so much, Bob. That's Robert Mints.

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<v Speaker 1>He's a partner McCarter in English. Thanks for listening to

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<v Speaker 1>the Bloomberg Law Podcast. You can subscribe and listen to

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<v Speaker 1>the show on Apple Podcasts, SoundCloud, and on Bloomberg dot

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<v Speaker 1>com slash podcast. I am June Grosso. This is Bloomberg