WEBVTT - S1-E09: Judgment Day

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<v Speaker 1>Diversion podcasts. A note this episode contains descriptions of graphic

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<v Speaker 1>violence listener's discretion as advised judgment. Day had arrived February

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<v Speaker 1>in sal Paolo. Herbert Sukers was getting ready to board

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<v Speaker 1>his flight, which left around seven am. The trip to

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<v Speaker 1>Mount of the Dao would take about two and a

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<v Speaker 1>half hours. He put on a dress shirt, a light

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<v Speaker 1>colored suit and a tie. I could just picture it.

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<v Speaker 1>Although Zookers was rarely photographed wearing a suit, it was

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<v Speaker 1>as if he was going to his first day on

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<v Speaker 1>a job, dressing for success. He said goodbye to his family.

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<v Speaker 1>His flight was Air France Flight three. He got to

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<v Speaker 1>the airport early and sat in the departure lounge. He

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<v Speaker 1>must have been excited worried too. It was a big

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<v Speaker 1>deal for him, this whole thing. He wanted a different

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<v Speaker 1>sort of life. He knew that at sixty four he

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<v Speaker 1>wouldn't get many more chances, so he was taking a risk,

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<v Speaker 1>a big risk that Anton Kunzla was on the level.

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<v Speaker 1>But even in taking a risk, he needed a little insurance.

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<v Speaker 1>So underneath the suit was his nine millimeter Baretta. You

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<v Speaker 1>could still carry a gun on a commercial flight. It

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<v Speaker 1>wasn't until the late sixties, when there was a rash

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<v Speaker 1>of hijackings in the US, mostly by radicals who wanted

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<v Speaker 1>to go to Cuba, that the policy changed. Sukers carried

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<v Speaker 1>his gun in a leather holster as he boarded the

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<v Speaker 1>plane and headed off into what he must have imagined

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<v Speaker 1>was his new life. Yeah, I'm Stephen Talty and this

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<v Speaker 1>is good. Assassin's hunting the butcher. So it's the first

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<v Speaker 1>file was to find and not been looking forward, while

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<v Speaker 1>the second part was the minor Nazi and killing. We

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<v Speaker 1>must thwart this shameful forces, the end of a trayal

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<v Speaker 1>and blood and horror, the end of a man whose

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<v Speaker 1>name will be written in inform episode nine Judgment Day.

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<v Speaker 1>The men in them Sod Kill Team were spread out

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<v Speaker 1>in various hotels across Montevideo, Uruguay. They woke up early

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<v Speaker 1>on that February morning and began to get ready for

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<v Speaker 1>the Butcher's arrival. Neo had the first assignment. He had

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<v Speaker 1>to go to the airport and pick up Suckers. He

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<v Speaker 1>had to check Sukers into the hotel and confirmed their

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<v Speaker 1>seats on their flights to Chile. He had to convince

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<v Speaker 1>the butcher. They had a busy day ahead, which would

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<v Speaker 1>include driving around the city looking at properties. They also

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<v Speaker 1>was stopped by Cassa Kubertini for a look at the

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<v Speaker 1>company's temporary headquarters, who was a full schedule. Neo didn't

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<v Speaker 1>want to give suckers much time to think. The agent

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<v Speaker 1>got up, showered and took librium. Mio had a condition.

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<v Speaker 1>He sweat a lot, and because he was concerned the

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<v Speaker 1>paranoid sukers might take his sweating as a sign of nervousness,

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<v Speaker 1>Mio had planned ahead. He'd gone to a drug store

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<v Speaker 1>back in Paris and asked the pharmacist to recommend something.

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<v Speaker 1>Demand prescribed an anti anxiety drug called librium, and when

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<v Speaker 1>Mio had tested it, he found it cured his problem.

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<v Speaker 1>So Mio took his librium. Then he dressed and took

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<v Speaker 1>the elevator down to the lobby. As he passed by

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<v Speaker 1>the news stand, the headline on one of the papers

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<v Speaker 1>they I read Bond Government will discuss tomorrow the investigation

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<v Speaker 1>of Nazi crimes. The story covered a meeting about the

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<v Speaker 1>amnesty debate coming up in the German parliament. The amnesty

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<v Speaker 1>was getting more and more international attention. In the U S.

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<v Speaker 1>The c P had added its name to Simon Enthal's letter,

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<v Speaker 1>pressure was building both for the amnesty and against it.

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<v Speaker 1>At one point, politicians in Germany tried to avoid a crisis.

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<v Speaker 1>Pro amnesty legislators made an offer to the anti amnesty forces.

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<v Speaker 1>They would change the statute if ordinary s s men

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<v Speaker 1>would kill during the war were given an amnesty. To some,

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<v Speaker 1>it wasn't such a crazy idea. Many countries gave soldiers

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<v Speaker 1>a free pass for crimes that were committed on the

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<v Speaker 1>battlefield and sometimes off the battlefield. It had been done before.

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<v Speaker 1>The amnesty opponents agreed to consider the offer, but when

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<v Speaker 1>they read the actual text of the proposed statute, they

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<v Speaker 1>were shocked. It wasn't just ordinary soldiers that would go free.

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<v Speaker 1>It was quote all perpetrators within the Nationalist Socialist administrative

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<v Speaker 1>machinery unquote. Who that included wasn't spelled out exactly, but

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<v Speaker 1>it sounded like every Nazi, every camp commander, every criminal,

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<v Speaker 1>every killer, like the butcher free forever. They rejected the deal.

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<v Speaker 1>There were other stories coming out of Germany too, Some

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<v Speaker 1>of them were kind of strange. One journalist had written

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<v Speaker 1>to the Justice Minister. Something had occurred to this journalist.

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<v Speaker 1>Adolph Hitler had never been indict did for ordering the

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<v Speaker 1>killing of six million Jews. What if he'd survived the

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<v Speaker 1>bunker where he'd supposedly committed suicide. What if his death

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<v Speaker 1>was a fake? Some people believed that he was alive

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<v Speaker 1>and well and living out his life and hiding. So

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<v Speaker 1>the journalists asked the Justice minister a question, if the

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<v Speaker 1>amnesty goes into effect, could Hitler walk down at Berlin

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<v Speaker 1>Street without being arrested. The Justice Ministry, well, they kind

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<v Speaker 1>of freaked out. They didn't know the answer to that question.

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<v Speaker 1>They found some war crimes experts and asked them, could

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<v Speaker 1>Hitler face any jail time. The answer was yes and no.

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<v Speaker 1>The former Nazi leader could be charged with political crimes,

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<v Speaker 1>with abusing the power of the state, that was true,

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<v Speaker 1>but he couldn't be charged with his main crime, murder.

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<v Speaker 1>That was disturbing. So the German courts did something about it.

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<v Speaker 1>Twenty years after the fur had supposedly died, they opened

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<v Speaker 1>proceeding against him. They even requested an arrest warrant in

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<v Speaker 1>his name. It made newspapers all over the world. The

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<v Speaker 1>Atlanta Journal Constitution reported, if Adolf Hitler returns from the dead,

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<v Speaker 1>you will have to answer for his crimes. It was

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<v Speaker 1>kind of a novelty story. Hitler was dead, who really

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<v Speaker 1>cared what he was charged with. But the incident did

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<v Speaker 1>make a point. There were hundreds, maybe thousands of killers

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<v Speaker 1>out there who didn't have an arrest warrant in their name.

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<v Speaker 1>If the amnesty passed, Hitler could still be thrown in

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<v Speaker 1>prison with the men who killed in his name, they

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<v Speaker 1>would be untouchable by now. Thousands of people around the

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<v Speaker 1>world that marched against Germany's planned amnesty in Atlanta, Boston, Chicago,

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<v Speaker 1>New Orleans, Washington, Tel Aviv, in Paris, they were protests.

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<v Speaker 1>A journalist interviewed one of the marchers in Toronto. She

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<v Speaker 1>told him, I am the only survivor of Bergen Belson,

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<v Speaker 1>of my entire family. I am so lonely without my relatives.

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<v Speaker 1>The full debate in the German Parliament was scheduled from

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<v Speaker 1>March tenth, two and a half weeks away. The MISSAD

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<v Speaker 1>team was cutting things close. Maybe they thought the fresher

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<v Speaker 1>Zuker's crimes were the minds of German legislators, the better

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<v Speaker 1>it was for their cause. Maybe it just took this

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<v Speaker 1>long to get the butcher into position, but they knew

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<v Speaker 1>they didn't have a lot of time to mount another

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<v Speaker 1>mission if things went wrong. Neia was composed with tense.

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<v Speaker 1>He wrote later, an exciting chapter in my life was

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<v Speaker 1>about to come to an end. Six months of a

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<v Speaker 1>constant war of wits, tension and uncertainty, and the tireless

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<v Speaker 1>efforts invested in order to bring us to this moment.

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<v Speaker 1>He thought about his parents, but he was focused on

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<v Speaker 1>the mission. Your Reeve was all up early that morning.

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<v Speaker 1>He wanted to get a look at Suker's to see

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<v Speaker 1>what he was wearing. That way, he could identify him

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<v Speaker 1>on site so there'd be no mistakes. Later in the day,

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<v Speaker 1>as Mio got into his rented VW Beetle, your Reef

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<v Speaker 1>was already driving to the airport. He would stand in

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<v Speaker 1>the visitors gallery with the families and friends of passengers

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<v Speaker 1>arriving on different flights. Your Reef would hang out with

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<v Speaker 1>them and hope to get a look at the butcher.

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<v Speaker 1>When he finally showed up, sudep a meat at Kafir,

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<v Speaker 1>had their breakfast, then headed to Kassa Kupertini. They had

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<v Speaker 1>perhaps the most difficult job waiting. The plan was for

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<v Speaker 1>Meo to lead the butcher into the house. The killed.

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<v Speaker 1>Team would rush and immobilize him. Then the verdict would

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<v Speaker 1>be read out. We planned a very brief court martial

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<v Speaker 1>and victory intended to read the charges to him. Is

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<v Speaker 1>the name of the Selti thousand Jews from Riga and Latvia, children, women,

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<v Speaker 1>the elderly, and men who had been mounted by him

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<v Speaker 1>over twenty years ago. We wanted him to know it's

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<v Speaker 1>this entire long affair with Anton Kunzl had been designed

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<v Speaker 1>only to set the stage for the moment of revenge.

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<v Speaker 1>It's the name of his innocent victims. And then we

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<v Speaker 1>were going to put a bullet in his head. After

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<v Speaker 1>Dukers was dead, they would put him in the leather

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<v Speaker 1>trunk and they would leave a printed version of the

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<v Speaker 1>verdict with the body to explain why the assassination had

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<v Speaker 1>been carried out. The world would know the truth about

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<v Speaker 1>Herbert Sukers and men like him. There was one line

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<v Speaker 1>in the verdict that I thought was especially interesting. The

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<v Speaker 1>entire long affair had been designed only to set the

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<v Speaker 1>stage for the moment of revenge. It was clear that

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<v Speaker 1>the team wanted Zukers to know that he'd been tricked

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<v Speaker 1>and betrayed by Anton kunz La, a man who didn't

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<v Speaker 1>really exist. I wondered why. Maybe it was because Zukers

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<v Speaker 1>himself had betrayed many of his Jewish friends and acquaintances

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<v Speaker 1>in Riga. He drank with them before the war and

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<v Speaker 1>made them believe he was their friend, and then he

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<v Speaker 1>had murdered them. Many survivors talked about how this double

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<v Speaker 1>cross made the war years even more painful for them. Now,

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<v Speaker 1>the Massad team wanted to re enact that betrayal with

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<v Speaker 1>the butcher himself. He wouldn't just be executed, he would

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<v Speaker 1>be executed in the same way that the Jews of

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<v Speaker 1>Latvia had gone to their deaths. Mio got to the

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<v Speaker 1>airport early and went to the visitors gallery. He looked

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<v Speaker 1>at the arrival's board. Suckers flight was listed on time.

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<v Speaker 1>He inspected the people around him. He spotted your Reeve.

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<v Speaker 1>His face turned away from me. They didn't want anyone

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<v Speaker 1>to see that they knew each other. They didn't even

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<v Speaker 1>exchange a glance. At around nine thirty am, Air France

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<v Speaker 1>flight eighty three touchdown. The airplane stairs were pushed to

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<v Speaker 1>the door and passengers began coming out. Neo could see

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<v Speaker 1>them clearly. Finally, Zookers emerged. He spotted Mio held up

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<v Speaker 1>one hand making a V for victory sign. He was

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<v Speaker 1>smiling from ear to ear. Mio smiled back. The butcher

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<v Speaker 1>seemed to be in a good mood. As Zukers waved

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<v Speaker 1>to him. Neo could see the handgun that he was

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<v Speaker 1>carrying in the shoulder holster. Mio knew he usually liked

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<v Speaker 1>to travel with a gun, but now it was confirmed.

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<v Speaker 1>This meant that if the team failed to bring Zukers down,

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<v Speaker 1>he might be able to wound or kill several of

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<v Speaker 1>its members. Neo felt his anxiety creep up your reeve.

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<v Speaker 1>Standing among the families, spotted Zukers too. He recognized him

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<v Speaker 1>from the photographs he studied in Paris. He memorized what

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<v Speaker 1>the pitcher was wearing, then turned and slipped away from

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<v Speaker 1>the crowd. He headed back to the parking lot. We

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<v Speaker 1>jumped in his car and drove over to Cassa Kuppertini. Meanwhile,

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<v Speaker 1>Suckers found me a waiting for him. The two shook hands.

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<v Speaker 1>Suckers was smiling. He passed on greetings from his wife

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<v Speaker 1>and children, and he asked me to catch him up

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<v Speaker 1>on our plans. They told him, believe me only the best,

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<v Speaker 1>I told him. We have great plans and you're part

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<v Speaker 1>of The two walked to the VW and headed towards

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<v Speaker 1>the city. Neo drove as naturally as possible, chatting with

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<v Speaker 1>Sukers watching his pedometer, he made sure to stay below

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<v Speaker 1>the speed limit. When Meo parked in front of the

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<v Speaker 1>Victoria Plaza hotel, Suckers took his suit case and went

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<v Speaker 1>to check in. He had room seventeen nineteen. When he

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<v Speaker 1>came back down from dropping off his luggage, he was happy.

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<v Speaker 1>He remarked to Meo, what a beautiful room. They went

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<v Speaker 1>to the airline office. Nea wanted to confirm their flight

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<v Speaker 1>from Uruguay to Chile. Knowing that they had tikes out

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<v Speaker 1>of Uruguay would help convince Sukers that nothing out of

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<v Speaker 1>the ordinary was going to happen. Why wouldn't assassins spend

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<v Speaker 1>money on plane tickets they weren't going to use. The

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<v Speaker 1>two went to the office. As Mio confirmed the tickets,

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<v Speaker 1>he spoke loud enough for Zukers to hear. Later on,

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<v Speaker 1>during the investigation of the whole matter, the clerk said

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<v Speaker 1>that he thought that two men were friends. He was

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<v Speaker 1>acting was pretty good. After they had the tickets, Neo

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<v Speaker 1>and Sukers went to meet with a real estate agent.

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<v Speaker 1>They toured a few houses looking for deals for Kunzla's company.

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<v Speaker 1>Every time they visited a house, Meal made sure to

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<v Speaker 1>enter first. Then the butcher followed him in one last

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<v Speaker 1>bit of conditioning before they headed to Cassa Kubertini. Hey,

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<v Speaker 1>this is Stephen Talty, the host of this podcast, Good

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<v Speaker 1>Assassin's Hunting the Butcher. This podcast project came out of

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<v Speaker 1>my work on a related book called The Good Assassin.

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<v Speaker 1>If you want to explore other parts of this story,

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<v Speaker 1>check it out. It's not just a book version of

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<v Speaker 1>the podcast. I spend time on different aspects of the mission.

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<v Speaker 1>There are chapters diving into World War two history that

0:15:41.960 --> 0:15:44.760
<v Speaker 1>we didn't cover in the podcast, and the book works

0:15:44.840 --> 0:15:47.480
<v Speaker 1>as a kind of a companion to the listening experience.

0:15:48.440 --> 0:15:51.880
<v Speaker 1>You can purchase a copy of The Good Assassin on Amazon,

0:15:52.400 --> 0:16:03.440
<v Speaker 1>Apple Books, and on bookshop dot org. Thanks After they'd

0:16:03.520 --> 0:16:06.280
<v Speaker 1>visited a few properties, Neio looked down at the fuel

0:16:06.320 --> 0:16:10.000
<v Speaker 1>gage was getting low. He pointed this out to Suckers

0:16:10.400 --> 0:16:13.640
<v Speaker 1>and they pulled into a nearby gas station. Meo had

0:16:13.720 --> 0:16:16.680
<v Speaker 1>let the fuel run down on purpose. Across the street

0:16:16.720 --> 0:16:20.600
<v Speaker 1>from the gas station, a red car was Parked inside

0:16:20.600 --> 0:16:22.760
<v Speaker 1>the car was the local Jewish man from the Foreign

0:16:22.840 --> 0:16:25.080
<v Speaker 1>Service that your Reeve had found to act as a lookout.

0:16:25.720 --> 0:16:29.240
<v Speaker 1>He watches Meo filled the tank, then took off. He

0:16:29.240 --> 0:16:31.920
<v Speaker 1>would report back to the kill team that the two

0:16:31.920 --> 0:16:36.200
<v Speaker 1>men were on schedule. Neo and Sukers looked at a

0:16:36.200 --> 0:16:39.600
<v Speaker 1>few more houses. Then Mio told the real estate agent

0:16:39.880 --> 0:16:42.800
<v Speaker 1>that they think about it. He'd call them tomorrow let

0:16:42.880 --> 0:16:46.840
<v Speaker 1>them know about their decision. There's another psychological cue to zookers.

0:16:47.720 --> 0:16:50.360
<v Speaker 1>We have plans for tomorrow. We have a flight to Chile.

0:16:51.000 --> 0:16:56.600
<v Speaker 1>Nothing bad is going to happen. It was about noon

0:16:56.640 --> 0:16:59.320
<v Speaker 1>at this point. After they left the real estate agent,

0:16:59.760 --> 0:17:02.840
<v Speaker 1>Neo and Sukers got back in the car. Neo had

0:17:02.880 --> 0:17:06.640
<v Speaker 1>a sudden idea. The house he'd runted as the headquarters

0:17:06.760 --> 0:17:09.320
<v Speaker 1>was close by. Why didn't they go and have a look.

0:17:10.160 --> 0:17:12.680
<v Speaker 1>It wasn't up to his usual standards, but he wanted

0:17:12.680 --> 0:17:16.960
<v Speaker 1>Sukers to see it. The butcher agreed. They headed toward

0:17:16.960 --> 0:17:20.760
<v Speaker 1>the ocean, drove through the Crossco neighborhood, and, as Fernando

0:17:20.800 --> 0:17:27.920
<v Speaker 1>but Zoni tells us, into Shangri Law. It was an

0:17:28.040 --> 0:17:33.160
<v Speaker 1>ordinary tuesday, not too much traffic, pedestrians strolling by, people

0:17:33.240 --> 0:17:37.760
<v Speaker 1>going to lunch at the casa. The kill team had

0:17:37.840 --> 0:17:41.920
<v Speaker 1>undressed down to their underwear. If MEO's reports had been correct,

0:17:42.400 --> 0:17:44.919
<v Speaker 1>the encounter would be bloody, and they didn't want the

0:17:44.920 --> 0:17:49.399
<v Speaker 1>evidence of a struggle on their clothes. They waited in

0:17:49.440 --> 0:17:53.120
<v Speaker 1>the hot, humid room, listening to the workers banter next

0:17:53.160 --> 0:17:57.120
<v Speaker 1>door and the noise of their tools. They checked their watches.

0:17:58.600 --> 0:18:03.080
<v Speaker 1>Neo and Sukers reached the Cassa Kupertini. As Mio pulled

0:18:03.119 --> 0:18:06.000
<v Speaker 1>into the driveway, he saw the four or five men

0:18:06.240 --> 0:18:09.399
<v Speaker 1>working on the house next door. They might hear what

0:18:09.560 --> 0:18:12.560
<v Speaker 1>was about to happen, but there was no turning back.

0:18:12.600 --> 0:18:17.560
<v Speaker 1>Now the killed team was inside. The target was here.

0:18:18.560 --> 0:18:21.280
<v Speaker 1>Now all Meo had to do was get him into

0:18:21.280 --> 0:18:27.720
<v Speaker 1>the house. Here we are, this is the house. Meo

0:18:27.840 --> 0:18:31.160
<v Speaker 1>stopped the car, put it in park, cut the engine.

0:18:31.960 --> 0:18:34.800
<v Speaker 1>Before Zukers could say anything, me was out of the

0:18:34.840 --> 0:18:39.240
<v Speaker 1>car and walking towards the front door. This is it,

0:18:39.400 --> 0:18:43.080
<v Speaker 1>I thought, this is the moment of truth. He must

0:18:43.119 --> 0:18:46.399
<v Speaker 1>follow me. Now. From the corner of my eye, I

0:18:46.400 --> 0:18:49.919
<v Speaker 1>could see Tukers get out of the car, still walking.

0:18:50.600 --> 0:18:53.320
<v Speaker 1>I had already pulled the house keys out of my pocket.

0:18:53.800 --> 0:19:00.320
<v Speaker 1>Tuckers was about ten or twelve feet behind me. Meal

0:19:00.440 --> 0:19:03.720
<v Speaker 1>put the key in the lock, turned it, grabbed a handle,

0:19:04.200 --> 0:19:07.560
<v Speaker 1>and pushed the door in. It was kind of dark inside,

0:19:08.160 --> 0:19:12.360
<v Speaker 1>no lights on. The four Massad members were lined up

0:19:12.440 --> 0:19:15.439
<v Speaker 1>on either side of the door. Neil gave them a

0:19:15.480 --> 0:19:20.520
<v Speaker 1>quick glance, then positioned himself behind the open door. The

0:19:20.600 --> 0:19:25.359
<v Speaker 1>men listened. They could hear Sucre's footsteps as he approached

0:19:25.400 --> 0:19:29.840
<v Speaker 1>the house. Then suddenly the butcher was coming through the door.

0:19:30.800 --> 0:19:34.960
<v Speaker 1>The change from bright sunshine to semi darkness blinded him

0:19:35.000 --> 0:19:38.439
<v Speaker 1>for split second. That's when Neo slammed the door shut

0:19:38.480 --> 0:19:43.840
<v Speaker 1>behind him and they killed team pounced. Three of the

0:19:43.880 --> 0:19:47.640
<v Speaker 1>men grabbed at Sucre's arms to immobilize him. The last one,

0:19:47.960 --> 0:19:51.240
<v Speaker 1>We're not sure who it was, dashed behind him, preparing

0:19:51.280 --> 0:19:55.440
<v Speaker 1>to execute the Cropmaga maneuver a single downward blow that

0:19:55.480 --> 0:19:59.720
<v Speaker 1>would drop the butcher to his knees, but immediately all

0:19:59.760 --> 0:20:03.400
<v Speaker 1>hell broke loose. Saucers pushed the men away and started shouting.

0:20:04.080 --> 0:20:07.520
<v Speaker 1>The agent behind him couldn't give the knockout blow. Saucers

0:20:07.640 --> 0:20:10.160
<v Speaker 1>was too quick. He was already turning to run back

0:20:10.160 --> 0:20:12.920
<v Speaker 1>out of the house. He shook off the Massad agents,

0:20:13.240 --> 0:20:16.640
<v Speaker 1>thrashing at them with his arms. Sucres worst nightmare had

0:20:16.640 --> 0:20:20.359
<v Speaker 1>come true. He realized immediately he had walked into a trap.

0:20:21.440 --> 0:20:23.600
<v Speaker 1>But me, it was a nightmare, the thing he'd fear

0:20:23.680 --> 0:20:27.080
<v Speaker 1>the most, it was also coming true. The butcher was

0:20:27.119 --> 0:20:32.119
<v Speaker 1>attacking the Massad agents and he was winning. He fought

0:20:32.240 --> 0:20:35.840
<v Speaker 1>like a violent and wounded animal. He freed one hand,

0:20:36.200 --> 0:20:38.960
<v Speaker 1>grabbed the door handle and tried to pull it open.

0:20:39.600 --> 0:20:42.120
<v Speaker 1>We leaned against the door, trying to push him into

0:20:42.160 --> 0:20:45.520
<v Speaker 1>the center of the room. The fear of death gave

0:20:45.640 --> 0:20:52.320
<v Speaker 1>him incredible strength. Sucers was screaming, bellowing. He pulled back

0:20:52.320 --> 0:20:54.639
<v Speaker 1>on the door handle that came ripping out of the wood.

0:20:55.240 --> 0:20:58.760
<v Speaker 1>He seemed to have this superhuman strength. The others grabbed

0:20:58.800 --> 0:21:00.919
<v Speaker 1>of his arms, his throat. They tried to beat him

0:21:00.960 --> 0:21:05.040
<v Speaker 1>to the ground, but nothing worked. In the chaos, knew

0:21:05.119 --> 0:21:09.040
<v Speaker 1>heard a voice. The butcher was shouting. Something was in German.

0:21:10.160 --> 0:21:13.920
<v Speaker 1>Let me speak, let me speak. Zukers must have known

0:21:14.160 --> 0:21:17.520
<v Speaker 1>why he was being ambushed. Clearly these were Jewish agents

0:21:17.920 --> 0:21:21.360
<v Speaker 1>and he wanted to talk to them. This I found fascinating.

0:21:21.840 --> 0:21:24.320
<v Speaker 1>What was the butcher going to say? Did he think

0:21:24.320 --> 0:21:28.000
<v Speaker 1>he had an explanation for thirty murders. What could he

0:21:28.080 --> 0:21:31.199
<v Speaker 1>possibly have said? They would have calmed these avengers and

0:21:31.280 --> 0:21:35.199
<v Speaker 1>caused them to stop the mission. It didn't matter. Massad

0:21:35.280 --> 0:21:37.760
<v Speaker 1>agents didn't want to listen, and the fight went on.

0:21:38.280 --> 0:21:40.760
<v Speaker 1>The men wrestled with each other in a fury. In

0:21:40.840 --> 0:21:44.280
<v Speaker 1>the melee, Zuker's glasses dropped to the floor, and then

0:21:44.640 --> 0:21:48.800
<v Speaker 1>something really bad. Sucres was, of course armed. Epistol wasn't

0:21:48.800 --> 0:21:51.840
<v Speaker 1>the leather holster. It was the baretta that he'd shown

0:21:51.840 --> 0:21:55.760
<v Speaker 1>me a month before when he visited Suker's home. Now,

0:21:55.880 --> 0:21:58.679
<v Speaker 1>Zukers shoved one of the Massad men away and reached

0:21:58.720 --> 0:22:01.639
<v Speaker 1>for the gun. The men rushed at Sukers. Mio had

0:22:01.720 --> 0:22:04.760
<v Speaker 1>joined in by now The team was getting desperate. You

0:22:04.920 --> 0:22:07.320
<v Speaker 1>reef grabbed at the butcher's face. He was trying to

0:22:07.359 --> 0:22:10.120
<v Speaker 1>get his hand over Zuker's mouth to stop him from

0:22:10.119 --> 0:22:14.000
<v Speaker 1>screaming and alerting the workers next door, but his index

0:22:14.040 --> 0:22:17.880
<v Speaker 1>finger slipped into Suker's mouth. The putcher immediately clamped down

0:22:18.160 --> 0:22:20.600
<v Speaker 1>and bit off the tip of his finger. The reef

0:22:20.640 --> 0:22:24.320
<v Speaker 1>snatched his hand away, screaming and pain. They were all

0:22:24.400 --> 0:22:27.720
<v Speaker 1>gasping now, trying to bring the butcher down. But then

0:22:27.720 --> 0:22:30.520
<v Speaker 1>one of the team members we don't know who spotted

0:22:30.560 --> 0:22:33.720
<v Speaker 1>something lying on the floor. It was a hammer that

0:22:33.760 --> 0:22:36.439
<v Speaker 1>had been left behind after some recent worked on the house.

0:22:37.440 --> 0:22:40.840
<v Speaker 1>He snatched it up, turned towards Suker's and brought the

0:22:40.840 --> 0:22:45.560
<v Speaker 1>hammer down on his head. Blood went everywhere, some even

0:22:45.560 --> 0:22:49.240
<v Speaker 1>spurted up on the ceiling. Investigators would later find it there.

0:22:49.840 --> 0:22:53.679
<v Speaker 1>Zuker's was badly wounded, his skull was fractured, blood pouring

0:22:53.720 --> 0:22:57.520
<v Speaker 1>down his face, and yet he still kept fighting. It

0:22:57.640 --> 0:23:00.919
<v Speaker 1>was almost hard to believe how tough he was. Finally,

0:23:00.920 --> 0:23:02.720
<v Speaker 1>one of them assad men grabbed his gun from the

0:23:02.760 --> 0:23:06.200
<v Speaker 1>pile of clothes. He came up to Zookers, whose face

0:23:06.280 --> 0:23:08.960
<v Speaker 1>was partially hidden by the blood flowing over it, and

0:23:09.040 --> 0:23:12.239
<v Speaker 1>fired two bullets into his head. Zookers collapsed to the

0:23:12.280 --> 0:23:22.160
<v Speaker 1>floor and lay still. The only sound in the room

0:23:22.240 --> 0:23:25.680
<v Speaker 1>was from your reeve. He was moaning in pain, holding

0:23:25.680 --> 0:23:28.840
<v Speaker 1>his wounded hand. They needed to get it taken care of,

0:23:29.400 --> 0:23:32.760
<v Speaker 1>but first they had some business to attend to. The

0:23:32.800 --> 0:23:35.879
<v Speaker 1>men stood there listening for a moment. They didn't hear

0:23:35.880 --> 0:23:38.920
<v Speaker 1>any police sirens, and they could hear the voices of

0:23:39.000 --> 0:23:42.440
<v Speaker 1>the workers next door. The workers didn't seem to be anxious.

0:23:42.880 --> 0:23:45.840
<v Speaker 1>They were talking normally, so it seemed that nobody had

0:23:45.880 --> 0:23:50.520
<v Speaker 1>heard the shots. Sude went to the backyard and turned

0:23:50.520 --> 0:23:53.440
<v Speaker 1>on the hose. One by one, the men went out

0:23:53.560 --> 0:23:56.199
<v Speaker 1>to wash the blood off. Then they put their clothes

0:23:56.240 --> 0:23:59.840
<v Speaker 1>on and went back to Zookers. His shirt was so

0:24:00.200 --> 0:24:03.960
<v Speaker 1>with blood. They went through his pockets and found his passport.

0:24:04.800 --> 0:24:07.880
<v Speaker 1>They took the bretta, then dragged the leather trunk out

0:24:07.880 --> 0:24:12.320
<v Speaker 1>of another room lifted Sucker's body into it. When the

0:24:12.320 --> 0:24:16.760
<v Speaker 1>body was inside, Massadman placed two pieces of paper inside

0:24:16.760 --> 0:24:20.520
<v Speaker 1>a folder on top of the body. The first was

0:24:20.560 --> 0:24:25.480
<v Speaker 1>a verdict considering the gravity of the crimes of which

0:24:25.520 --> 0:24:31.399
<v Speaker 1>Herbert Suckers is accused, notably his personal responsibility and the

0:24:31.560 --> 0:24:36.760
<v Speaker 1>murder of thirty thousand men, women and children, And considering

0:24:36.880 --> 0:24:40.480
<v Speaker 1>the terrible cruelty shown by Herbert Suckers and carrying out

0:24:40.560 --> 0:24:47.200
<v Speaker 1>his crimes, we condemned, they said, Suckers to death. Give

0:24:47.320 --> 0:24:55.720
<v Speaker 1>us executed on February twenty third. It was signed those

0:24:56.359 --> 0:25:01.439
<v Speaker 1>who will never forget. They late a second document inside

0:25:01.440 --> 0:25:05.800
<v Speaker 1>the folder. Bio never mentioned it. He talked about the verdict,

0:25:06.160 --> 0:25:09.040
<v Speaker 1>but not this other piece of paper. I was able

0:25:09.040 --> 0:25:12.240
<v Speaker 1>to find out what it was through police and newspaper reports.

0:25:13.040 --> 0:25:17.080
<v Speaker 1>It was from the Nuremberg trials, where the leaders of

0:25:17.119 --> 0:25:20.360
<v Speaker 1>the Nazi machine were put on trial by the Allies

0:25:20.600 --> 0:25:23.919
<v Speaker 1>right after the war. The page was part of the

0:25:23.920 --> 0:25:26.480
<v Speaker 1>testimony of a man who saw a large group of

0:25:26.560 --> 0:25:31.760
<v Speaker 1>Jews being murdered in the Ukraine. The British Chief Prosecutor,

0:25:32.240 --> 0:25:36.359
<v Speaker 1>Sir Hartley Shawcross read this testimony in front of Nazi

0:25:36.400 --> 0:25:40.640
<v Speaker 1>war criminals sitting in the defendant's box, and it's haunting

0:25:40.680 --> 0:25:49.520
<v Speaker 1>to hear even today without screaming, all weeping. These people, undressed,

0:25:50.720 --> 0:25:58.160
<v Speaker 1>stowed around in family a groups, gifted each other, said farewells,

0:25:58.560 --> 0:26:01.920
<v Speaker 1>and waited put a side from another ss man who

0:26:01.960 --> 0:26:05.120
<v Speaker 1>stood near the pit, also with a whip in his hand.

0:26:07.560 --> 0:26:10.760
<v Speaker 1>During the fifteen minutes that I stood near, I heard

0:26:10.840 --> 0:26:17.040
<v Speaker 1>no complaint or flee for mercy. I watched a family

0:26:17.080 --> 0:26:20.840
<v Speaker 1>of about eight persons, a man and a woman, both

0:26:20.880 --> 0:26:25.359
<v Speaker 1>about fifty, with their children of about one, eight ten

0:26:26.720 --> 0:26:29.800
<v Speaker 1>and two grown up daughters for about twenty or twenty four.

0:26:32.200 --> 0:26:36.040
<v Speaker 1>An old woman with snow white hair was holding the

0:26:36.160 --> 0:26:39.040
<v Speaker 1>one year old child in her arms and singing to

0:26:39.200 --> 0:26:43.560
<v Speaker 1>it and tickling it. The child was toying with delight.

0:26:44.960 --> 0:26:47.800
<v Speaker 1>The couple were looking on with tears in their eyes.

0:26:50.119 --> 0:26:52.600
<v Speaker 1>The father was holding the hand of a boy about

0:26:52.640 --> 0:26:56.800
<v Speaker 1>ten years old and speaking to him something. The boy

0:26:56.960 --> 0:27:01.440
<v Speaker 1>was fighting his tears. The are the pointed to the sky,

0:27:02.560 --> 0:27:05.720
<v Speaker 1>stroked his head, and the same to explain something to

0:27:05.840 --> 0:27:11.800
<v Speaker 1>the board. A few moments later, the family was dead.

0:27:16.080 --> 0:27:19.800
<v Speaker 1>Why did me on the others include this account, He

0:27:19.920 --> 0:27:22.680
<v Speaker 1>never said, but I think it was placed there because

0:27:22.720 --> 0:27:25.720
<v Speaker 1>it was about the victims. They were the real reason

0:27:25.800 --> 0:27:28.680
<v Speaker 1>that me on the other agents were inside Cassa Kopertini

0:27:29.080 --> 0:27:33.480
<v Speaker 1>on February when the news about Suckers went out into

0:27:33.480 --> 0:27:36.560
<v Speaker 1>the world. Massad didn't want the mission to be just

0:27:36.720 --> 0:27:40.000
<v Speaker 1>about the butcher. They wanted the murder Jews to be

0:27:40.040 --> 0:27:52.119
<v Speaker 1>remembered too, at least that's my guess. With the verdict

0:27:52.200 --> 0:27:55.320
<v Speaker 1>red and the trunk closed, the men were almost done.

0:27:55.920 --> 0:28:00.359
<v Speaker 1>You reeve told the team, we lean and we've finish.

0:28:01.240 --> 0:28:03.159
<v Speaker 1>So they wiped down the walls and tried to make

0:28:03.200 --> 0:28:07.359
<v Speaker 1>sure they hadn't left any clues behind. Then they left.

0:28:09.240 --> 0:28:11.840
<v Speaker 1>Neo dropped off his car on the street near the hotel,

0:28:12.359 --> 0:28:15.160
<v Speaker 1>and the others did the same with their rentals. They

0:28:15.200 --> 0:28:17.959
<v Speaker 1>took care of some other small details and then they

0:28:17.960 --> 0:28:22.119
<v Speaker 1>met at a cafe in downtown Montepdeo. There they had

0:28:22.160 --> 0:28:27.800
<v Speaker 1>a drink. Weaver at one with ourselves, and thou did

0:28:29.200 --> 0:28:34.480
<v Speaker 1>if we felt proud of having the privilege taking part

0:28:34.840 --> 0:28:38.800
<v Speaker 1>is this opimasion. After they finished their drinks, the men

0:28:38.880 --> 0:28:42.400
<v Speaker 1>got up and left the cafe. One by one. They

0:28:42.440 --> 0:28:45.720
<v Speaker 1>took two separate flights to Buenos Aires, sitting apart from

0:28:45.720 --> 0:28:49.000
<v Speaker 1>each other. By the end of the day they were

0:28:49.080 --> 0:28:53.520
<v Speaker 1>all out of Uruguay. Neo had one thing left to

0:28:53.560 --> 0:28:56.640
<v Speaker 1>do in South America. He wrote a letter to the

0:28:56.640 --> 0:29:00.480
<v Speaker 1>butcher's family to throw them off the trail. He addressed

0:29:00.520 --> 0:29:03.120
<v Speaker 1>the letter to Zucres himself as if he didn't know

0:29:03.160 --> 0:29:06.800
<v Speaker 1>the man was dead. In it, he said that he'd

0:29:06.800 --> 0:29:10.160
<v Speaker 1>found out they've been followed in Uruguay by two strangers.

0:29:11.160 --> 0:29:13.640
<v Speaker 1>Mia wrote that he fled to Chile in order to

0:29:13.680 --> 0:29:17.480
<v Speaker 1>get away from these mysterious people. He implied that he

0:29:17.520 --> 0:29:20.760
<v Speaker 1>was a Nazi war criminal himself, that he and Suckers

0:29:20.960 --> 0:29:24.680
<v Speaker 1>had escaped some kind of kidnapping attempt. He sent the

0:29:24.760 --> 0:29:27.120
<v Speaker 1>letter in a large envelope to a friend in Chile,

0:29:27.720 --> 0:29:30.120
<v Speaker 1>who put stamps on it and mailed it to Suckers

0:29:30.200 --> 0:29:34.080
<v Speaker 1>family in sal Paulo. It would buy the team some

0:29:34.200 --> 0:29:36.720
<v Speaker 1>time to get back to Europe to get rid of

0:29:36.720 --> 0:29:40.040
<v Speaker 1>their cover identities. The family would think that Sucres was

0:29:40.080 --> 0:29:42.440
<v Speaker 1>still in Uruguay and that there was no need to

0:29:42.480 --> 0:29:47.959
<v Speaker 1>call the police In Buenos Aires. Famisade agents boarded their

0:29:47.960 --> 0:29:52.760
<v Speaker 1>flights back to France. When he arrived in Paris, Nio

0:29:52.800 --> 0:29:54.560
<v Speaker 1>went to a branch of the bank he'd opened in

0:29:54.560 --> 0:29:58.280
<v Speaker 1>the count at under the name of Anton Kunsla. He

0:29:58.360 --> 0:30:02.000
<v Speaker 1>withdrew the money and closed the account. He got rid

0:30:02.040 --> 0:30:05.280
<v Speaker 1>of the passport and anything that connected him with the

0:30:05.320 --> 0:30:09.640
<v Speaker 1>Austrian businessman. The others did the same with their documents.

0:30:10.600 --> 0:30:14.920
<v Speaker 1>It was over. The mission had been a success. Now

0:30:14.960 --> 0:30:31.600
<v Speaker 1>they waited for the story to hit the headlines. By

0:30:31.640 --> 0:30:34.920
<v Speaker 1>now it was early March, the debate about the Statute

0:30:34.920 --> 0:30:39.880
<v Speaker 1>of Limitations was a week away. Massad was hoping that

0:30:39.920 --> 0:30:42.360
<v Speaker 1>the body would be discovered and that stories about the

0:30:42.360 --> 0:30:45.720
<v Speaker 1>butcher and his terrible crimes would run in newspapers and

0:30:45.720 --> 0:30:53.440
<v Speaker 1>on TV channels all over the world. Soon, Meo and

0:30:53.480 --> 0:30:56.760
<v Speaker 1>the others were now living ordinary lives in Paris. They

0:30:56.760 --> 0:31:00.320
<v Speaker 1>went to breakfast, went to the movies, socialized with their friends.

0:31:01.000 --> 0:31:04.000
<v Speaker 1>But every morning they bought newspapers and scanned them for

0:31:04.000 --> 0:31:09.400
<v Speaker 1>the news. A couple of days passed, then another. There

0:31:09.480 --> 0:31:13.200
<v Speaker 1>was nothing on the TV or in the papers. Neo

0:31:13.280 --> 0:31:17.440
<v Speaker 1>and the others started to get nervous. It turned out

0:31:17.680 --> 0:31:21.480
<v Speaker 1>that the team had made a crucial mistake. It was

0:31:21.480 --> 0:31:24.160
<v Speaker 1>a mistake that revealed a blind spot in their training

0:31:24.960 --> 0:31:29.680
<v Speaker 1>and in their view of the world. As massad agents,

0:31:29.800 --> 0:31:32.360
<v Speaker 1>the five men were trained to hide from the press.

0:31:33.240 --> 0:31:37.560
<v Speaker 1>They avoided journalists at all costs. Publicity was poisoned for

0:31:37.600 --> 0:31:40.680
<v Speaker 1>us by agency, and so for years they've been taught

0:31:41.000 --> 0:31:45.720
<v Speaker 1>how to conceal facts to avoid attention. That was great,

0:31:45.960 --> 0:31:49.360
<v Speaker 1>except when you needed attention. Their training had made them

0:31:49.400 --> 0:31:53.240
<v Speaker 1>ignorant about how reporters actually worked. They thought the body

0:31:53.280 --> 0:31:58.120
<v Speaker 1>would just be discovered, like by accident. They never really

0:31:58.120 --> 0:32:01.760
<v Speaker 1>thought about how that would have up. They'd hidden their

0:32:01.800 --> 0:32:06.080
<v Speaker 1>tracks too well. No one was looking for Herbert Sukers,

0:32:06.520 --> 0:32:08.320
<v Speaker 1>and no one knew about the body and the trunk.

0:32:09.000 --> 0:32:14.320
<v Speaker 1>The whole point of the mission was slipping away finally

0:32:14.720 --> 0:32:18.120
<v Speaker 1>from Sode. Agents started calling newspapers in Germany to report

0:32:18.400 --> 0:32:23.400
<v Speaker 1>the assassination. No response. The reporters they spoke to thought

0:32:23.400 --> 0:32:26.200
<v Speaker 1>they were cranks. Something about a body and a trunk

0:32:26.360 --> 0:32:29.800
<v Speaker 1>and Nazis and never forgetting what was that even about.

0:32:30.560 --> 0:32:34.120
<v Speaker 1>Journalists are busy and Uruguay was on the other side

0:32:34.120 --> 0:32:37.680
<v Speaker 1>of the world. Me and the others had no idea

0:32:38.040 --> 0:32:40.520
<v Speaker 1>how to get a reporter interested in a body in

0:32:40.640 --> 0:32:45.840
<v Speaker 1>some random house in Montevideo. So they wrote letters describing

0:32:45.840 --> 0:32:48.720
<v Speaker 1>the mission and why it was done, and they sent

0:32:48.800 --> 0:32:51.600
<v Speaker 1>them to a bunch of news agencies. One of them

0:32:51.640 --> 0:32:54.640
<v Speaker 1>reached a reporter. We don't know his name, but he

0:32:54.680 --> 0:32:57.800
<v Speaker 1>read the letter and thought it was interesting. He decided

0:32:57.840 --> 0:33:02.040
<v Speaker 1>to call the police in Montevideo. When he reached them,

0:33:02.160 --> 0:33:05.280
<v Speaker 1>he asked about a murder of a Nazi named Herbert Suckers.

0:33:06.000 --> 0:33:09.800
<v Speaker 1>Did they know anything about it? They didn't, but murders

0:33:10.040 --> 0:33:14.640
<v Speaker 1>get attention. The file landed on the desk of the

0:33:14.640 --> 0:33:19.200
<v Speaker 1>head of the Uruguayan Intelligence Service, a man named Alejandro Otero,

0:33:20.120 --> 0:33:24.280
<v Speaker 1>and according to Uruguayan writer Fernando Budizoni, this wasn't the

0:33:24.320 --> 0:33:29.120
<v Speaker 1>type of thing he typically handled. Look intelligence service in

0:33:29.240 --> 0:33:33.000
<v Speaker 1>uy was a joke and the data was the chief

0:33:33.640 --> 0:33:38.000
<v Speaker 1>was this joke. In fact, prior to this, Potero's main

0:33:38.080 --> 0:33:42.680
<v Speaker 1>qualification didn't exactly have much to do with intelligence or

0:33:43.080 --> 0:33:48.240
<v Speaker 1>law enforcement. He was the chief of the keeny Euruuayan

0:33:48.280 --> 0:33:53.120
<v Speaker 1>Intelligence Service. A young man, very competent, who are so,

0:33:53.680 --> 0:33:58.400
<v Speaker 1>was a soccer referee in the sixties and in uy

0:33:58.480 --> 0:34:05.240
<v Speaker 1>your soccer is very popular, wash, very very But despite

0:34:05.280 --> 0:34:09.400
<v Speaker 1>his inexperience, Otero assembled some officers and got in a

0:34:09.440 --> 0:34:14.480
<v Speaker 1>patrol car to try to crack the case. He wandered

0:34:14.719 --> 0:34:19.440
<v Speaker 1>around few days and they see that in the end

0:34:19.719 --> 0:34:23.440
<v Speaker 1>they smell of the car. He guided him to the house.

0:34:23.640 --> 0:34:29.400
<v Speaker 1>Jesus true. The officers knocked on the front door, no answer,

0:34:30.200 --> 0:34:34.000
<v Speaker 1>but they smelled the stench coming from inside, and it

0:34:34.200 --> 0:34:37.560
<v Speaker 1>was horrible. They went around the side and broke a

0:34:37.600 --> 0:34:40.879
<v Speaker 1>window with the butts of their guns. They broke into

0:34:40.880 --> 0:34:45.960
<v Speaker 1>the house. As they entered, they noticed dark splotches almost black,

0:34:46.480 --> 0:34:49.360
<v Speaker 1>on some of the walls. They saw the leather trunk.

0:34:50.080 --> 0:34:54.799
<v Speaker 1>Next to it were two shell casings, two caliber. There

0:34:54.800 --> 0:34:57.520
<v Speaker 1>were also parts of a gun on the floor. It

0:34:57.600 --> 0:35:00.880
<v Speaker 1>had been broken apart. The office broke the lock on

0:35:00.920 --> 0:35:04.840
<v Speaker 1>the trunk and pulled up the top. When they looked inside,

0:35:05.160 --> 0:35:08.440
<v Speaker 1>they saw a bright red folder laying on what appeared

0:35:08.600 --> 0:35:19.239
<v Speaker 1>to be a body. They had found Herbert suckers Hi.

0:35:19.719 --> 0:35:23.480
<v Speaker 1>This is Stephen Talty, host of good assassins Hunting the Butcher.

0:35:24.280 --> 0:35:27.440
<v Speaker 1>The folks that helped me bring you this show, Diversion Podcasts,

0:35:27.760 --> 0:35:30.640
<v Speaker 1>have just launched another podcast that I think you'll like.

0:35:31.480 --> 0:35:35.560
<v Speaker 1>It's called Backstaged The Devil in Metal, a deep dive

0:35:35.600 --> 0:35:38.760
<v Speaker 1>into the history of metal music, filled with never before

0:35:38.800 --> 0:35:42.000
<v Speaker 1>heard interviews and stories from some of the biggest names

0:35:42.000 --> 0:35:46.799
<v Speaker 1>of music, including Black Sabbath, Judas Priest, Ben Helen, and

0:35:46.960 --> 0:35:52.959
<v Speaker 1>many others. It's outrageous, raw and surprising at times. Backstage

0:35:53.280 --> 0:35:56.320
<v Speaker 1>The Devil in Metal is out now. Follow the show

0:35:56.440 --> 0:36:00.319
<v Speaker 1>on Apple Podcasts, I hired radio app or wherever listened

0:36:00.320 --> 0:36:07.720
<v Speaker 1>to your podcasts. Back at the station, O Tero began

0:36:07.840 --> 0:36:12.879
<v Speaker 1>to develop a basic theory of the case. I think

0:36:12.920 --> 0:36:19.280
<v Speaker 1>that he understood several things from the beginning. First that

0:36:19.719 --> 0:36:25.120
<v Speaker 1>it was the work of this release and second that

0:36:25.560 --> 0:36:29.560
<v Speaker 1>it was an international action done by professionals. And at

0:36:29.600 --> 0:36:33.360
<v Speaker 1>the same time, news of the assassination started to break

0:36:33.520 --> 0:36:37.000
<v Speaker 1>in Uruguay and it left quite an impression on young

0:36:37.080 --> 0:36:45.040
<v Speaker 1>Fernando good Zoni in I was eleven years old. I remember,

0:36:45.280 --> 0:36:51.000
<v Speaker 1>of course, the Suckers assassination was a shock. This was

0:36:51.080 --> 0:36:58.240
<v Speaker 1>a incredibleous situation. International criminal killer in in my country,

0:36:58.680 --> 0:37:02.920
<v Speaker 1>no way. Of course, at eleven years old, I could

0:37:02.960 --> 0:37:07.360
<v Speaker 1>already hear the adult conversation and see the front page

0:37:07.400 --> 0:37:12.400
<v Speaker 1>of the new newspapers and the magazine, and I remember

0:37:12.440 --> 0:37:17.040
<v Speaker 1>the pictures on the frontage Google's body in the trunk

0:37:17.480 --> 0:37:23.040
<v Speaker 1>or that was very terrifying to me. Really, oh, Tero

0:37:23.280 --> 0:37:27.160
<v Speaker 1>would eventually drop his investigation. He didn't want to ignite

0:37:27.400 --> 0:37:31.800
<v Speaker 1>an international crisis. But before he did, he traveled to

0:37:31.880 --> 0:37:36.000
<v Speaker 1>Brazil to meet with Sucre's family and it left a

0:37:36.120 --> 0:37:41.480
<v Speaker 1>lingering impression. I interviewed him many years ago and he

0:37:41.560 --> 0:37:48.360
<v Speaker 1>told me that Sucos family was unreliable, especially the widow.

0:37:49.400 --> 0:37:56.279
<v Speaker 1>He thinks that the family was a dark family. I

0:37:56.280 --> 0:38:07.160
<v Speaker 1>don't know why. At this point, the news of the

0:38:07.200 --> 0:38:11.840
<v Speaker 1>assassination was starting to break around the world. The Massad

0:38:11.920 --> 0:38:14.880
<v Speaker 1>team still in Paris caught it as the lead story

0:38:15.160 --> 0:38:29.240
<v Speaker 1>of the French evening news, and it ran in Germany, Israel,

0:38:29.520 --> 0:38:34.719
<v Speaker 1>the US and other countries. Journalists blocked to Montevideo to

0:38:34.760 --> 0:38:37.960
<v Speaker 1>look into the mysterious killing of a Nazi war criminal.

0:38:40.040 --> 0:38:45.080
<v Speaker 1>Conspiracy theories started sprouting everywhere. One rumor was the air

0:38:45.120 --> 0:38:47.920
<v Speaker 1>holes had been found punched into the leather trunk that

0:38:47.920 --> 0:38:50.560
<v Speaker 1>would indicate that someone had been trying to kidnap Suckers

0:38:50.800 --> 0:38:54.200
<v Speaker 1>but had to kill him instead. Others believed that Suckers

0:38:54.239 --> 0:38:57.440
<v Speaker 1>had been part of a Massad plot to catch Joseph Mengela,

0:38:57.800 --> 0:39:00.640
<v Speaker 1>the butcher of Auschwitz, was supposed to lee hiding out

0:39:00.680 --> 0:39:04.239
<v Speaker 1>in South America too. The story went that Massad had

0:39:04.239 --> 0:39:07.520
<v Speaker 1>made a deal if Zuker's lured Mangola out of hiding,

0:39:07.880 --> 0:39:12.600
<v Speaker 1>he himself would be allowed to go free. Through all

0:39:12.640 --> 0:39:17.640
<v Speaker 1>this public speculation, Massad states silent as usual. They didn't

0:39:17.640 --> 0:39:21.759
<v Speaker 1>confirm or deny being involved, but everyone knew it was

0:39:21.840 --> 0:39:34.440
<v Speaker 1>the Israelis. In Germany, as articles about Herbert Sukers appeared

0:39:34.440 --> 0:39:37.359
<v Speaker 1>in the press, one of the major networks announced they

0:39:37.360 --> 0:39:40.359
<v Speaker 1>were going to televise the debate on the Statute of Limitations.

0:39:41.120 --> 0:39:44.000
<v Speaker 1>It would air live. It was rare to do that

0:39:44.080 --> 0:39:46.600
<v Speaker 1>in Germany at the time, but the issue was getting

0:39:46.719 --> 0:39:50.960
<v Speaker 1>unprecedented attention from the media. Tickets for the visitors gallery

0:39:50.960 --> 0:39:54.960
<v Speaker 1>at the Boonstag became hot commodities. There were dozens of

0:39:54.960 --> 0:40:05.160
<v Speaker 1>requests for every seat all the Colonel. Finally, March tenth arrived,

0:40:06.000 --> 0:40:11.520
<v Speaker 1>the debate in the German Parliament began. The Conservative government

0:40:11.800 --> 0:40:15.239
<v Speaker 1>still backed the amnesty. They wanted to put an end

0:40:15.280 --> 0:40:18.400
<v Speaker 1>to Nazi trials, to draw a line under the Holocaust

0:40:18.880 --> 0:40:22.040
<v Speaker 1>and move on. The Liberals, for the most part, I

0:40:22.160 --> 0:40:25.600
<v Speaker 1>believed that was wrong. A full accounting of the Holocaust

0:40:25.760 --> 0:40:28.919
<v Speaker 1>had never been made. There were still killers out there

0:40:29.280 --> 0:40:35.200
<v Speaker 1>living happy and free. They had to face justice. Deliss

0:40:39.239 --> 0:40:44.640
<v Speaker 1>shot to the Scotia. There was one Liberal who went

0:40:44.680 --> 0:40:49.120
<v Speaker 1>against his party. He supported the statute. His name was

0:40:49.200 --> 0:40:53.160
<v Speaker 1>Adolph Aren't, the son of a law professor. The sixty

0:40:53.239 --> 0:40:56.480
<v Speaker 1>year old Aren't was a tall, schoolmasterish guy with a

0:40:56.560 --> 0:41:01.200
<v Speaker 1>serious legal mind. Aren't had refused on principle to join

0:41:01.239 --> 0:41:04.680
<v Speaker 1>the Nazi Party before World War Two began, and he

0:41:04.760 --> 0:41:08.520
<v Speaker 1>was fired from the position as a judge because of it. Instead,

0:41:08.800 --> 0:41:11.200
<v Speaker 1>he used his skills as a lawyer to help jose

0:41:11.360 --> 0:41:17.000
<v Speaker 1>escape to the US, England and Switzerland. After being categorized

0:41:17.000 --> 0:41:19.640
<v Speaker 1>as half Jewish himself, he was interned in a work

0:41:19.680 --> 0:41:24.200
<v Speaker 1>camp in and forced to do hard labor. The following year,

0:41:24.760 --> 0:41:29.000
<v Speaker 1>was arrested and sent to prison. And yet Aren't felt

0:41:29.000 --> 0:41:32.560
<v Speaker 1>that changing the statute would only make things worse. Other

0:41:32.600 --> 0:41:36.520
<v Speaker 1>regimes in the future might change laws retroactively to accuse

0:41:36.600 --> 0:41:41.279
<v Speaker 1>their enemies of crimes. The law should be sacred. That

0:41:41.400 --> 0:41:47.440
<v Speaker 1>was Adolph Aren't's position that afternoon, as millions of people

0:41:47.480 --> 0:41:51.520
<v Speaker 1>tuned in on television, Germans were literally debating the meaning

0:41:51.520 --> 0:41:54.919
<v Speaker 1>of the Holocaust. How long should his killers be hunted down?

0:41:55.440 --> 0:41:59.240
<v Speaker 1>How many people shared in the guilt. Speaker after speaker

0:41:59.440 --> 0:42:02.320
<v Speaker 1>got up to argue their side of the issue. It

0:42:02.440 --> 0:42:07.560
<v Speaker 1>went on for hours. Finally Adolph Aren't rose to speak.

0:42:08.280 --> 0:42:10.960
<v Speaker 1>He supported the statute for months. The fact that he

0:42:11.000 --> 0:42:14.400
<v Speaker 1>was half Jewish gave credibility to the pro statute side.

0:42:15.160 --> 0:42:18.120
<v Speaker 1>If one of Hitler's victims said to keep it, who

0:42:18.120 --> 0:42:21.640
<v Speaker 1>could argue with that? But his Arn't began to speak,

0:42:21.960 --> 0:42:26.800
<v Speaker 1>His fellow legislators went silent. Something was happening. It became

0:42:26.880 --> 0:42:29.680
<v Speaker 1>clear as the minutes went by that Aren't had changed

0:42:29.719 --> 0:42:34.040
<v Speaker 1>his mind. He was coming out against the statute. In

0:42:34.080 --> 0:42:38.279
<v Speaker 1>his speech, Aren't talked about a representative Nazi killer, the

0:42:38.360 --> 0:42:41.320
<v Speaker 1>kind of perpetrator who would receive an amnesty if the

0:42:41.400 --> 0:42:45.759
<v Speaker 1>law went ahead. A man who takes an infant by

0:42:45.880 --> 0:42:49.680
<v Speaker 1>zavit in front of his mother and shutters his head

0:42:49.880 --> 0:42:54.440
<v Speaker 1>on the nearest iron post. A man who has twenty

0:42:54.520 --> 0:42:59.680
<v Speaker 1>thousand or thousands of people shocked or killed. A man

0:43:00.080 --> 0:43:03.560
<v Speaker 1>trains his dog so that he tears apart and prisoners

0:43:03.640 --> 0:43:07.200
<v Speaker 1>gentles before the prisoner is put to death in the

0:43:07.280 --> 0:43:12.400
<v Speaker 1>most cruel way. A man who forces prisoners to kneel

0:43:12.560 --> 0:43:16.160
<v Speaker 1>in the pios they have dubbed themselves, then gives them

0:43:16.320 --> 0:43:20.080
<v Speaker 1>the next shot, and then the next victim comes in.

0:43:20.960 --> 0:43:25.480
<v Speaker 1>So that's for days. A fountain of blood splashes out

0:43:25.560 --> 0:43:32.240
<v Speaker 1>of this masskrive. One cannot say of this man, why

0:43:32.520 --> 0:43:49.000
<v Speaker 1>is he still dealing with his act today? That number

0:43:49.120 --> 0:43:54.440
<v Speaker 1>Aren't mentioned jumped out at me. People. It was the

0:43:54.520 --> 0:43:57.719
<v Speaker 1>same number that thirty thou that was included in the

0:43:57.840 --> 0:44:00.880
<v Speaker 1>verdict that the Massad team had left on Suker's body.

0:44:02.040 --> 0:44:04.600
<v Speaker 1>It was in many of the stories that ran after

0:44:04.640 --> 0:44:09.279
<v Speaker 1>the news of the assassination was made public. Was it

0:44:09.400 --> 0:44:12.560
<v Speaker 1>just a coincidence that Aren't as he changed his mind

0:44:12.719 --> 0:44:16.080
<v Speaker 1>seemingly at the eleventh hour, mentioned the exact number of

0:44:16.160 --> 0:44:19.920
<v Speaker 1>victims that Herbert Sucres had been accused of killing. I'm

0:44:19.960 --> 0:44:25.440
<v Speaker 1>not sure, but it seems unlikely. Chances are Aren't had

0:44:25.480 --> 0:44:28.360
<v Speaker 1>read about Suckers and what he'd done during the war,

0:44:29.120 --> 0:44:34.560
<v Speaker 1>and it had affected him. Here's get Chamron again. The

0:44:34.600 --> 0:44:38.680
<v Speaker 1>excesad agent. There's no doubt in my heart that the

0:44:39.400 --> 0:44:47.080
<v Speaker 1>operation was successful. And the fact that in the waves

0:44:47.800 --> 0:44:53.000
<v Speaker 1>brought up after the Aischman kidnapped, being war already going down,

0:44:53.840 --> 0:44:56.800
<v Speaker 1>and the what talks in Europe, especially in West Germany,

0:44:56.840 --> 0:45:01.600
<v Speaker 1>at the time of maybe time to to make a line,

0:45:01.960 --> 0:45:05.600
<v Speaker 1>you know, and forget what happened twenty years ago. We

0:45:05.840 --> 0:45:11.440
<v Speaker 1>look for the future. Let's let's decide normal Nazi huntings,

0:45:11.480 --> 0:45:15.480
<v Speaker 1>no more Natzi trials. What they college stretch line college

0:45:15.480 --> 0:45:20.640
<v Speaker 1>in Germany strich linear, that's right, German world. And this

0:45:20.920 --> 0:45:24.560
<v Speaker 1>was the reason for the operation. And uh once the

0:45:24.760 --> 0:45:30.840
<v Speaker 1>body of suppose found in Motividel and the vote in

0:45:30.920 --> 0:45:35.800
<v Speaker 1>the Bundesta a few days later rejected the proposal of

0:45:35.920 --> 0:45:41.279
<v Speaker 1>making Nazi crimes okay finished twenty years So, you know,

0:45:41.360 --> 0:45:44.840
<v Speaker 1>it's something you cannot quantify, but I do believe it

0:45:45.400 --> 0:45:49.200
<v Speaker 1>had the repercussions, and it had the right repercussions desired

0:45:49.280 --> 0:45:55.960
<v Speaker 1>by those who decided to go for this proachet. If

0:45:55.960 --> 0:45:58.759
<v Speaker 1>it hadn't been for eight of Ourn't speech and is

0:45:58.840 --> 0:46:01.719
<v Speaker 1>mentioning of the thirty thous and victims, I wouldn't be

0:46:01.760 --> 0:46:05.840
<v Speaker 1>so sure. There were big questions being debated guilt for

0:46:05.840 --> 0:46:10.440
<v Speaker 1>the death of millions, Germany's future, and Germany's guilt. It's

0:46:10.440 --> 0:46:13.719
<v Speaker 1>hard to imagine that one assassination in a distant country

0:46:13.920 --> 0:46:16.520
<v Speaker 1>could have turned the tide against the amnesty in this

0:46:16.640 --> 0:46:21.120
<v Speaker 1>German politician's mind. But Suakers gave a face to the Holocaust.

0:46:21.840 --> 0:46:25.279
<v Speaker 1>The stories about his atrocities were so terrible, and the

0:46:25.360 --> 0:46:28.600
<v Speaker 1>news of the assassination was so fresh it might have

0:46:28.719 --> 0:46:32.720
<v Speaker 1>lingered in the minds of some legislators. A sketch Smron said,

0:46:33.160 --> 0:46:35.960
<v Speaker 1>it's impossible to say for sure, but it's clear that

0:46:35.960 --> 0:46:38.279
<v Speaker 1>the mission made it known that there were still many

0:46:38.320 --> 0:46:43.239
<v Speaker 1>more butchers out there. When the votes were counted, it

0:46:43.320 --> 0:46:47.719
<v Speaker 1>was votes in favor of the statute, three hundred and

0:46:47.840 --> 0:46:54.040
<v Speaker 1>sixty one against and four abstentions. In the end, the

0:46:54.120 --> 0:46:58.640
<v Speaker 1>time period for prosecuting Nazi criminals was extended for five years.

0:46:59.560 --> 0:47:13.040
<v Speaker 1>The killers would not get an amnesty. In the months

0:47:13.040 --> 0:47:16.600
<v Speaker 1>and years following the Zuker's mission, hundreds of Nazi mass

0:47:16.680 --> 0:47:22.239
<v Speaker 1>killers were discovered and prosecuted, and, perhaps more importantly, the

0:47:22.280 --> 0:47:24.680
<v Speaker 1>idea that was only Hitler and a few of his

0:47:24.800 --> 0:47:30.839
<v Speaker 1>lieutenants that caused the Holocaust began to change. The prosecutions

0:47:30.880 --> 0:47:33.640
<v Speaker 1>brought to light the role that thousands of Germans and

0:47:33.680 --> 0:47:38.280
<v Speaker 1>their collaborators played in the genocide. A much fuller picture

0:47:38.560 --> 0:47:42.120
<v Speaker 1>of how the Holocaust worked and who carried it out emerged.

0:47:44.960 --> 0:47:48.160
<v Speaker 1>There were other factors, of course, including the rise of

0:47:48.200 --> 0:47:51.239
<v Speaker 1>a new generation of Germans who hadn't been born when

0:47:51.239 --> 0:47:54.040
<v Speaker 1>the Third Dreich was in power, But the vote on

0:47:54.080 --> 0:48:00.360
<v Speaker 1>the amnesty was a turning point to be a freedman.

0:48:00.800 --> 0:48:03.720
<v Speaker 1>The Polish Nazi hunter who had fought so hard against

0:48:03.760 --> 0:48:07.520
<v Speaker 1>the amnesty was overjoyed by the result, as with Simon

0:48:07.560 --> 0:48:12.200
<v Speaker 1>of Vicenthal. Five years later, the deadline for prosecutions was

0:48:12.280 --> 0:48:17.400
<v Speaker 1>extended again for another five years, and then in the

0:48:17.440 --> 0:48:21.000
<v Speaker 1>statute came up for a third and final vote. The

0:48:21.080 --> 0:48:25.919
<v Speaker 1>count was much closer, this time two to eliminate any

0:48:25.960 --> 0:48:32.000
<v Speaker 1>time limit. Two two against freedman, and the others had one.

0:48:33.000 --> 0:48:36.440
<v Speaker 1>There would be no amnesty for Nazi war criminals. Ever,

0:48:37.560 --> 0:48:44.960
<v Speaker 1>Friedman wrote today, these murderers have been silenced until the

0:48:45.200 --> 0:48:56.080
<v Speaker 1>end of their lives. Massad never took responsibility for the

0:48:56.120 --> 0:49:00.040
<v Speaker 1>Zuker's mission. That was just its policy, but many survivors

0:49:00.040 --> 0:49:03.399
<v Speaker 1>in Israel knew who had carried it out. People would

0:49:03.400 --> 0:49:06.320
<v Speaker 1>come up to me on the street and thank him.

0:49:06.320 --> 0:49:09.720
<v Speaker 1>He received letters from the families of those murdered in Latvia,

0:49:11.760 --> 0:49:14.680
<v Speaker 1>and every year the five men who carried out the

0:49:14.719 --> 0:49:18.840
<v Speaker 1>mission gathered to remember. They would have a drink or

0:49:18.840 --> 0:49:23.600
<v Speaker 1>two and talk about Montevideo and Cassa, Kubertini and the

0:49:23.680 --> 0:49:32.200
<v Speaker 1>rest of it. After the operation, Joseph your Reeve did

0:49:32.239 --> 0:49:35.040
<v Speaker 1>well at MASSAD, who was promoted to the head of

0:49:35.040 --> 0:49:42.319
<v Speaker 1>the agency in Europe, and he retired. Mio's career was

0:49:42.400 --> 0:49:46.600
<v Speaker 1>less successful. He was frustrated the Suker's mission had been

0:49:46.600 --> 0:49:50.680
<v Speaker 1>a huge success, but there were no promotions for him.

0:49:50.719 --> 0:49:53.040
<v Speaker 1>The fact that he was an introvert and not really

0:49:53.040 --> 0:49:56.760
<v Speaker 1>a commander of men it worked against him, and maybe

0:49:56.760 --> 0:49:59.920
<v Speaker 1>something else. Most of them SAD agents who rose to

0:50:00.040 --> 0:50:04.160
<v Speaker 1>the top where sabras men born in Israel. Mia was

0:50:04.200 --> 0:50:07.360
<v Speaker 1>a bit of an outsider. He'd been born in Germany

0:50:07.640 --> 0:50:11.160
<v Speaker 1>and spoke with a strong German accent. It set him apart.

0:50:14.760 --> 0:50:18.680
<v Speaker 1>Mio retired from the Massad and settled in a leafy

0:50:18.719 --> 0:50:23.040
<v Speaker 1>neighborhood in Tel Aviv. Once in a while, when MASSA

0:50:23.239 --> 0:50:25.840
<v Speaker 1>needed a certain kind of operative for a mission, it

0:50:25.920 --> 0:50:28.120
<v Speaker 1>would call him up and he would come out of

0:50:28.160 --> 0:50:32.799
<v Speaker 1>retirement for a week or two, but mostly he spent

0:50:32.880 --> 0:50:38.040
<v Speaker 1>his time spoiling his grandchildren. As the years went by,

0:50:38.480 --> 0:50:41.040
<v Speaker 1>he would often look back on his career and talk

0:50:41.120 --> 0:50:44.520
<v Speaker 1>about the missions that meant the most to him. When

0:50:44.560 --> 0:50:46.719
<v Speaker 1>I spoke with me a son in Tel Aviv, he

0:50:46.800 --> 0:50:49.839
<v Speaker 1>told me it was always the Zuker's operation that Mia

0:50:49.960 --> 0:50:53.759
<v Speaker 1>was proudest of. For him, it was the pinnacle of

0:50:53.800 --> 0:51:02.839
<v Speaker 1>his career and really of his life. Ye Meo had

0:51:02.920 --> 0:51:06.759
<v Speaker 1>led a mission that helped change history, but for me

0:51:07.239 --> 0:51:11.279
<v Speaker 1>serious questions remained. The main one was why Zookers had

0:51:11.320 --> 0:51:14.960
<v Speaker 1>done what he'd done. Even Meo, as good as spy

0:51:15.000 --> 0:51:19.600
<v Speaker 1>as he was, never cracked that mystery. In the next episode,

0:51:20.040 --> 0:51:23.200
<v Speaker 1>I'll tell you about the surprising answers I found and

0:51:23.239 --> 0:51:26.800
<v Speaker 1>the brilliant Jewish woman who went through hell to reveal

0:51:26.840 --> 0:51:45.120
<v Speaker 1>the truth about the Butcher of Latvia. Good Assassins. Hunting

0:51:45.160 --> 0:51:48.839
<v Speaker 1>the Butcher is a production of Diversion Podcasts in association

0:51:48.880 --> 0:51:52.360
<v Speaker 1>with I Heart Radio. This season is written and hosted

0:51:52.400 --> 0:51:56.000
<v Speaker 1>by Stephen Talti, produced and directed by Scott Waxman and

0:51:56.120 --> 0:52:01.560
<v Speaker 1>Jacob Bronstein. Executive producers Scott Waxman and Mark Francis. Story

0:52:01.680 --> 0:52:05.880
<v Speaker 1>Editing by Jacob Bronstein, with editorial direction from Scott Waxman

0:52:06.000 --> 0:52:09.799
<v Speaker 1>and Mangesh had Ticketour. Editing, mixing and sound design by

0:52:09.800 --> 0:52:14.960
<v Speaker 1>Mark Francis with the voices of Nick Afka, Thomas Armory, Angele,

0:52:15.400 --> 0:52:20.839
<v Speaker 1>Andrew Polkue, Mindy Escobar, Leants, Steve Rautman and Stefan Rudnitsky.

0:52:21.680 --> 0:52:26.320
<v Speaker 1>Theme music by Tyler Cash. Archival research by Adam Shapiro,

0:52:27.560 --> 0:52:57.400
<v Speaker 1>thanks to Oran Rosenbaum at ut A Diversion Podcasts.