WEBVTT - The Most New Yorker New Yorker Tom Knows

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<v Speaker 1>Welcome to the Bloomberg Surveillance Podcast. I'm Tom Keane Jailey.

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<v Speaker 1>We bring you insight from the best in economics, finance, investment,

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<v Speaker 1>and international relations. Find Bloomberg Surveillance on Apple Podcasts, SoundCloud,

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<v Speaker 1>Bloomberg dot Com, and of course on the Bloomberg. This

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<v Speaker 1>is a joy. I will tell you that on a

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<v Speaker 1>Black Friday, it was the spirit that is New York

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<v Speaker 1>City retailing. To have Pim Fox, who grew up in

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<v Speaker 1>the heart of it, truly is the most new Yorker.

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<v Speaker 1>I mean, we have nineteen people, and you're the most

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<v Speaker 1>new Yorker person. I know your mother's acclaim checker. Yes,

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<v Speaker 1>I do remember when there was nothing that the Trump

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<v Speaker 1>Tower was not the Trump Tower exactly. You have apartment store,

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<v Speaker 1>collective memory, bringing our guests more than you. That's why

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<v Speaker 1>he That's why he's at in that location. How are

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<v Speaker 1>divid if it's of course of David, if it's an associate,

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<v Speaker 1>he's the founder and the chairman of a veteran of

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<v Speaker 1>the retail industry, and how are always a pleasure? Happy

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<v Speaker 1>Thanksgiving to you? And you know what I'm I'm speaking of, right,

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<v Speaker 1>I mean, the Trump Tower was on the land that

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<v Speaker 1>was originally I believe it was a best in company,

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<v Speaker 1>and then you had bond with Teller and a variety.

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<v Speaker 1>But having said all this, I want to ask you

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<v Speaker 1>about something having to do with the company whose name

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<v Speaker 1>we know, Lord and Taylor, owned by Hudson Bay right,

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<v Speaker 1>the Canadian retail giant, And recently there were the big

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<v Speaker 1>headlines that Walmart is really upping its game by having

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<v Speaker 1>Lord and Taylor merchandise on their website. And this is

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<v Speaker 1>supposed to be an upscale fashion forward event. I know

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<v Speaker 1>I'm not the prime audience for whatever Lord and Taylor

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<v Speaker 1>is gonna sell, But having said that, I just never

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<v Speaker 1>thought of Lord and Taylor as the X siding fashion

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<v Speaker 1>forward uh kind of retailer. And so I'm curious why

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<v Speaker 1>would Walmart do this rather than even going close to home?

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<v Speaker 1>Because when I think of fashion forward, I look at

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<v Speaker 1>people like Mark Zuckerberg and I think, Gee, he's wearing

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<v Speaker 1>that hoodie? Who made that hoodie? Or what happens to

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<v Speaker 1>have been made in Middlesex, North Carolina by a company

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<v Speaker 1>called American Giants. So there I've laid it out for you.

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<v Speaker 1>What are your what are your thoughts? Well, I think

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<v Speaker 1>every time there's an obituary. Lordon Taylor loses a customer.

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<v Speaker 1>I mean, that's who they are. It's a failed business again,

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<v Speaker 1>all part of the department store sector, which is a catastrophe,

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<v Speaker 1>and Lord and Taylor is a piece of that. They

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<v Speaker 1>are in the very weak part of that. Now, the

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<v Speaker 1>guy that owns Lord and Taylor, Baker, is a brilliant

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<v Speaker 1>real estate guy. I mean, he bought Sacks for two

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<v Speaker 1>point two billion. It's unbelievable. One Sacks store on Fifth

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<v Speaker 1>Avenues were three point five bit. Now, either the Sacks

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<v Speaker 1>management were a bunch of total morons or Baker is

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<v Speaker 1>a genius. But something went wrong selling the company for

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<v Speaker 1>two point two billion. Of Baker the genius. What he

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<v Speaker 1>did in Canada was unbelievable. Hudson's Bay. He sold that

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<v Speaker 1>real estate to Target for a fortune of fortune and

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<v Speaker 1>then the Target liquid they did in All the stores

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<v Speaker 1>are empty and Baker has got the money. Now, this

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<v Speaker 1>guy is what I call a real estate operator, a

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<v Speaker 1>zipped Now as a retailer, not so good. And Walmont

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<v Speaker 1>in fashion, if you're naked and you gotta stay naked,

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<v Speaker 1>you go to Walmart because they cover up. That is

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<v Speaker 1>the extent of Walmont fashion efforts. So I mean, that's it.

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<v Speaker 1>That's what they do. That is the extent of their efforts.

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<v Speaker 1>Any time they tried to step out of that, they've

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<v Speaker 1>gotten destroyed. They've done it three or four times. They

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<v Speaker 1>were a model the apparel sector knew, fixed is rugs,

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<v Speaker 1>whatever it is. Why do it because you have to

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<v Speaker 1>do something. I don't know why they did it. They've

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<v Speaker 1>got a very aggressive guy in in charge of this

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<v Speaker 1>whole thing. He's spending billions. That got Walmut Labs. They

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<v Speaker 1>have acquired nineteen companies that one of they're going bananas.

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<v Speaker 1>They're buying everybody. They've got to do something about Amazon,

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<v Speaker 1>so they're doing everything. How is it all gonna come out?

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<v Speaker 1>I have a lot of doubts that the Walmut culture

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<v Speaker 1>can make this work. A lot of doubts. The decision

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<v Speaker 1>on Lord Taylor is similar to buying Jet carn for

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<v Speaker 1>three point three billion, a one year old company losing

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<v Speaker 1>money three point rebillion. You wish you had two of

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<v Speaker 1>those businesses to sell the Walman exactly. So I don't

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<v Speaker 1>know about what they're doing, all right, But you mentioned

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<v Speaker 1>the purchase of Sacks Fifth Avenue being a smart real

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<v Speaker 1>estate movie. Okay, but if you can't do anything else

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<v Speaker 1>with that real estate, if it's locked in to be

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<v Speaker 1>a store, what's the difference, what the prices? It's not

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<v Speaker 1>locked in to be a store, That's the point. It's not.

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<v Speaker 1>It could be. It could be just what Lord and

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<v Speaker 1>Taylor did with their store on Fifth Avenue, multi use.

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<v Speaker 1>It could be a condo. It could be a combination

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<v Speaker 1>of a condo in a hotel and an office and

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<v Speaker 1>a smaller Sacks store, which would make a lot of sense.

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<v Speaker 1>You do bowling in sacks. The stores way too big,

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<v Speaker 1>just like the Lord and Taylor was like old Black Friday.

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<v Speaker 1>And I'm so honored to have Pim Fox here with

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<v Speaker 1>our divinoments right now to bring in a man I've

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<v Speaker 1>really wanted to speak to. Grover Northquest A lot of

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<v Speaker 1>people will say has one message. I found his over

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<v Speaker 1>the year. He's an awfully nuanced about his thoughts on

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<v Speaker 1>tax receipts, the money coming in. He joins US now

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<v Speaker 1>and tax cuts. Grover. I I looked at the news

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<v Speaker 1>flow in the analysis flow over the weekend. I could

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<v Speaker 1>not find one single removed person who liked the Senate bill.

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<v Speaker 1>Do you find any value to the Senate legislation. Well,

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<v Speaker 1>the good news is that the Senate bill will likely

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<v Speaker 1>pass um next year next week end of the week,

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<v Speaker 1>uh and that it will go into conference with the

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<v Speaker 1>House bill. The Senate bill is like the House bill

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<v Speaker 1>on taking the corporate right, but it's the lays of

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<v Speaker 1>the year. I tend to think that will go with

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<v Speaker 1>the House without the delay. But at the end of

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<v Speaker 1>the day, if you like to have twenty years going

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<v Speaker 1>to permanently uh now or a year from now, pretty

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<v Speaker 1>close to the same thing. Uh So there's not a

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<v Speaker 1>lot of difference. Sometimes the Senate will pass one bill

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<v Speaker 1>and the House of pass another bill, and they are

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<v Speaker 1>on different planets. One is, but these are easily conferenceable. Okay,

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<v Speaker 1>they're easily conferenceable. Are you gonna have to change the

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<v Speaker 1>name of your shop Americans for tax reform? Are you

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<v Speaker 1>gonna have to change it to Americans for tax cuts? Well,

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<v Speaker 1>we've always been for lower taxes as part of tax reform.

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<v Speaker 1>But even though they're doing a tremendous amount of things

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<v Speaker 1>here in terms of lowering rates and dealing with pass

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<v Speaker 1>through companies which the corporations, which we've not worked on

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<v Speaker 1>in the past, we're taking the corporate rate down to

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<v Speaker 1>make us modestly competitive with the rest of the world

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<v Speaker 1>thirty five, Chinas at twenty five for crying out loud,

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<v Speaker 1>England's at fifteen, Ireland's at twelve and a half. Repatriation

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<v Speaker 1>allowing people to bring American companies to bring to bring

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<v Speaker 1>their money back without being double tax getting rid of

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<v Speaker 1>the tax deductive antility of state local taxes, which is

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<v Speaker 1>a massive subsidy for incompetence mayors and governors who don't

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<v Speaker 1>keep their tax rate. And well, I mean every article

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<v Speaker 1>I read this weekend toward this legislation to shreds pim.

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<v Speaker 1>Well what I what I understand you kind of you're

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<v Speaker 1>you're offering kind of a pejorative about states that tax

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<v Speaker 1>their citizens, but much of that tax money ends up

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<v Speaker 1>going to the federal government that gets then gets redistributed

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<v Speaker 1>to states that don't have either a high tax rate

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<v Speaker 1>or don't have any income tax at all. So, uh,

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<v Speaker 1>it's either a United States or it's a Disunited States

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<v Speaker 1>when it comes to taxes. Why why do you make

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<v Speaker 1>that distinction? What we have is, uh, there're two issues here.

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<v Speaker 1>One is the federal taxes. And you're right, it's interesting

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<v Speaker 1>that New York senators. In California, senators vote very high

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<v Speaker 1>federal tax rates on businesses and high income earners, and

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<v Speaker 1>much of that money gets shipped out to red red states.

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<v Speaker 1>UM two states with a lot of of welfare recipients.

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<v Speaker 1>Uh So that's very generous of them, but they've decided

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<v Speaker 1>to do that. However, at the state level, you see

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<v Speaker 1>California with income tax rates in the stating come tax

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<v Speaker 1>rates over ten, New York with high stat income tax rates, Minnesota, Hawaii,

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<v Speaker 1>New Jersey. Uh. There was a wonderful article in Politico

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<v Speaker 1>where they went and quoted the head of the state

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<v Speaker 1>Senate in New Jersey said, our number one goal was

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<v Speaker 1>going to be a millionaire's tax. And now that they're

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<v Speaker 1>going to get rid of the tax of doctability of

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<v Speaker 1>state local but we're not gonna do that. It changes everything.

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<v Speaker 1>So if you live in a in a blue state

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<v Speaker 1>with high income taxes, the best thing that's going to

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<v Speaker 1>happen to you for the next fifty years is the

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<v Speaker 1>downward pressure on high income tachments. I mean, I over

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<v Speaker 1>What I find stunning here is the number of people

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<v Speaker 1>calculated to see their tax bill go up. Do you

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<v Speaker 1>have an optimum number A percent of people that should

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<v Speaker 1>have their tax bill go up to get corporate tax reform,

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<v Speaker 1>UH optimum numbers zero and the corporate side pace for

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<v Speaker 1>itself and the individuals. But come on, every article. I

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<v Speaker 1>I must have read ten articles this weekend without kidding,

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<v Speaker 1>and and it's it's it's of Americans are going to

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<v Speaker 1>see increased taxes off of some proposals. Do you buy that? Um? No?

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<v Speaker 1>And I'll tell you the tricks that they use to

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<v Speaker 1>get those numbers. First of all, UH, a number of

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<v Speaker 1>the tax cuts are technically temporary, so the only last

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<v Speaker 1>ten years or eight years? Why did why did the

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<v Speaker 1>Republicans in the House and Senate decide that certain taxes

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<v Speaker 1>would be permanent? Is there paid for with other offsets

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<v Speaker 1>and others? Are uh? End it eight years? Ten years?

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<v Speaker 1>And that's why they'll say this at tax increase in

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<v Speaker 1>what's that? That's the end of the tenure window. And

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<v Speaker 1>a number of the tax deductions credits lower lower rates,

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<v Speaker 1>and that year they picked the ones that will never end.

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<v Speaker 1>Remember when the Republicans under Bush had a ten year

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<v Speaker 1>tax cut and Obama made that permanent because he had

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<v Speaker 1>to the faster depreciation going. So you're just expensing. You're

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<v Speaker 1>just assuming that the temporary tax cuts of a decade

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<v Speaker 1>ish will be made permanent more than assuming. I've talked

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<v Speaker 1>to the republic leadership. They don't expect to wait until

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<v Speaker 1>we get there to make those permanent. There will be

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<v Speaker 1>a series of tax reforms tax cuts going out into

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<v Speaker 1>the future, and those will be made permanent as we

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<v Speaker 1>move forward, long before we get to year ten. So

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<v Speaker 1>and you, our friends on the left, say that's not fair.

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<v Speaker 1>This is a bigger tax cut than the Republicans are saying,

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<v Speaker 1>because they know darn well that some of the ending

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<v Speaker 1>of certain tax cuts, like they the House built has

0:12:31.600 --> 0:12:35.360
<v Speaker 1>full business expensing, full and immediate business expensing rather than

0:12:35.400 --> 0:12:39.400
<v Speaker 1>longing depreciation schedules for five years, and everyone knows that

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<v Speaker 1>that's going to be permanent. So they're they're misstating when

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<v Speaker 1>they say the tax cuts only one point five trillion,

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<v Speaker 1>it's actually more like four some some larger number. And

0:12:49.679 --> 0:12:51.720
<v Speaker 1>the answer is, yeah, you're right. We had to fit

0:12:51.760 --> 0:12:53.800
<v Speaker 1>it into your box. It was your stupid box. We

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<v Speaker 1>didn't want to have a box that side. You made

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<v Speaker 1>up imaginary rules, were playing by your imaginary rules. And

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<v Speaker 1>by the way, these will But I still don't understand

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<v Speaker 1>exactly how if people if you're going to literally you're

0:13:05.840 --> 0:13:09.920
<v Speaker 1>going to be taking money away from people that would

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<v Speaker 1>obviously spend it, how does that square with the idea

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<v Speaker 1>to put more money in the pockets of consumers. I mean,

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<v Speaker 1>that's just a fact. That's just what's gonna happen. Well,

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<v Speaker 1>i mean, forget ten years. No one knows what's going

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<v Speaker 1>to happen. In ten years, happened over the next ten months,

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<v Speaker 1>well in in the next, over the next, over the

0:13:29.720 --> 0:13:33.360
<v Speaker 1>next ten years, every income group will see a significant

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<v Speaker 1>reduction in their taxes and then their tax rates. So

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<v Speaker 1>you that's what people are trying to do is cherry

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<v Speaker 1>pick somebody with a very interesting collection of deductions and

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<v Speaker 1>credits and how they that you know, But but over

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<v Speaker 1>we do that every day with John Tucker. We cherry

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<v Speaker 1>pick John Tucker is representative of someone who's going to

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<v Speaker 1>see his taxes go up. We gotta come back Grover

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<v Speaker 1>Norcas with us, and we were a huge amount of

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<v Speaker 1>mail with Mr norc was on because you know, I'll

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<v Speaker 1>be honest with him. A lot of people they respect

0:14:03.559 --> 0:14:07.920
<v Speaker 1>his persistence on doing what everybody wants, which is lower taxes.

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<v Speaker 1>But how do you get there, because I haven't seen

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<v Speaker 1>it over the last ten years of you know, and

0:14:13.200 --> 0:14:16.960
<v Speaker 1>I'm still waiting for the empirical evidence which ties corporate

0:14:17.080 --> 0:14:20.520
<v Speaker 1>tax cuts to greater economic growth. Should we get him going,

0:14:20.560 --> 0:14:22.440
<v Speaker 1>I'm gonna come back and talk to Grover Norcast about

0:14:22.440 --> 0:14:27.080
<v Speaker 1>a Paul Krugman chart that'll get grows, that'll ruin his Thanksgiving,

0:14:27.600 --> 0:14:31.880
<v Speaker 1>his post Thanksgiving grow norcrist with his folks, of course,

0:14:31.920 --> 0:14:35.280
<v Speaker 1>from the Americans for tax reform, always controversial thrill he

0:14:35.280 --> 0:14:51.040
<v Speaker 1>could be with us. Uh. And it is a glorious,

0:14:51.080 --> 0:14:54.600
<v Speaker 1>beautiful perfect day here in New York City, less so

0:14:55.000 --> 0:14:57.800
<v Speaker 1>in Egyp hears the right through from Danna Crutchy and

0:14:57.840 --> 0:15:02.080
<v Speaker 1>Ahmed Khalil, I'll sayd out our Cairo bureau. At least

0:15:02.080 --> 0:15:05.000
<v Speaker 1>a hundred and fifty five killed. This is an abombing

0:15:05.200 --> 0:15:07.800
<v Speaker 1>and a mosque to the northeast of Cairo, up on

0:15:07.800 --> 0:15:12.160
<v Speaker 1>the Mediterranean towards the Gaza Strip. A hundred and twenty

0:15:12.200 --> 0:15:16.640
<v Speaker 1>others wounded. UH militants in four vehicles drove up to

0:15:17.440 --> 0:15:21.200
<v Speaker 1>the mosque. They set off a explosive device and then

0:15:22.080 --> 0:15:25.760
<v Speaker 1>the guns on the carnage began. This is a story

0:15:25.840 --> 0:15:29.200
<v Speaker 1>that is moving at light speed by no means is

0:15:29.240 --> 0:15:32.000
<v Speaker 1>that an accurate count? And we'll go from there. We

0:15:32.080 --> 0:15:36.240
<v Speaker 1>are privileged to have with us UH Lennoid, our Cairo

0:15:36.320 --> 0:15:39.040
<v Speaker 1>Bureau chief, she's out of Bristol and out of the

0:15:39.080 --> 0:15:43.640
<v Speaker 1>American University at Beirut, has a terrific perspective on the

0:15:43.640 --> 0:15:47.920
<v Speaker 1>Middle East. Lynn that it's not an everyday occurrence. But

0:15:48.080 --> 0:15:50.240
<v Speaker 1>it is safe to say that Mr l c C

0:15:51.240 --> 0:15:55.560
<v Speaker 1>does not have control of the security of Egypt. When

0:15:55.600 --> 0:15:59.160
<v Speaker 1>you look month to month and quarter to quarterback, there

0:15:59.200 --> 0:16:07.240
<v Speaker 1>seems to be an endless sequence of these tragic events. Um. Yes, Um,

0:16:07.400 --> 0:16:10.640
<v Speaker 1>this is a particularly large attack. I mean in terms

0:16:10.640 --> 0:16:12.800
<v Speaker 1>of the number of people killed, a hundred and fifty

0:16:12.840 --> 0:16:15.200
<v Speaker 1>five in a single attack. I can't remember the last

0:16:15.200 --> 0:16:19.560
<v Speaker 1>time that many people were killed, you know, in one incident. UM.

0:16:19.800 --> 0:16:23.800
<v Speaker 1>So in terms of scale, this is an unusual and

0:16:23.880 --> 0:16:28.160
<v Speaker 1>it's worrying. UM. In terms of the place where the

0:16:28.200 --> 0:16:33.080
<v Speaker 1>attack has taken place, um, it's it's in northern SINAI. Yes,

0:16:33.240 --> 0:16:37.160
<v Speaker 1>the government has been government forces have been um fighting

0:16:37.200 --> 0:16:42.320
<v Speaker 1>an insurgency there for years. Attacks are common, um, small

0:16:42.560 --> 0:16:46.000
<v Speaker 1>smaller scale attacks up and you know, very often mostly

0:16:46.120 --> 0:16:51.360
<v Speaker 1>they target security forces. Um. Um. But we have seen

0:16:51.600 --> 0:16:55.720
<v Speaker 1>like at Easter um and um at Christmas in December

0:16:55.840 --> 0:16:59.240
<v Speaker 1>of year, big attacks on churches, which again were a

0:16:59.320 --> 0:17:02.000
<v Speaker 1>major depart from the kinds of a taxi through before.

0:17:02.000 --> 0:17:05.240
<v Speaker 1>So I think what's really changed is who are the targets,

0:17:05.280 --> 0:17:09.960
<v Speaker 1>you know, no longer just security forces, ordinary people worshiping

0:17:10.240 --> 0:17:14.480
<v Speaker 1>in churches and mosques. The mythology of Egypt that so

0:17:14.560 --> 0:17:18.520
<v Speaker 1>many of our listeners in America have is Lawrence of Arabia.

0:17:18.600 --> 0:17:21.200
<v Speaker 1>And there's a scene where Lawrence goes across the sina

0:17:21.800 --> 0:17:24.840
<v Speaker 1>and hits the Suez Canal, and it makes for great

0:17:24.880 --> 0:17:29.200
<v Speaker 1>movies in great drama. Tell us about the tourist industry

0:17:29.240 --> 0:17:36.359
<v Speaker 1>that's been destroyed. Um yeah, so um yeah. SINAI, you know,

0:17:36.680 --> 0:17:41.040
<v Speaker 1>used to be a huge tourist destination for Egypt. Um.

0:17:41.080 --> 0:17:46.000
<v Speaker 1>It's got amazing red sea diving resorts and seaside resorts

0:17:46.040 --> 0:17:52.280
<v Speaker 1>along the northern coast, beautiful Mediterranean coastline. Um um. Um.

0:17:52.520 --> 0:17:55.240
<v Speaker 1>Mount Catherine, where there's a monastery at the top of

0:17:55.240 --> 0:17:57.240
<v Speaker 1>the mountain, was a great place that people used to

0:17:57.280 --> 0:18:02.040
<v Speaker 1>love to misit um and that's mostly been um, you know,

0:18:02.359 --> 0:18:07.879
<v Speaker 1>decimated by the attack that brought down a Russian passenger

0:18:07.920 --> 0:18:10.280
<v Speaker 1>plane in late two thousand and fifteen and two d

0:18:10.440 --> 0:18:13.320
<v Speaker 1>and twenty four people were killed in that UM in

0:18:13.359 --> 0:18:16.440
<v Speaker 1>that incident. UM. And since then, the government has been

0:18:16.440 --> 0:18:21.600
<v Speaker 1>trying to attract tourists bat UM, trying to you know,

0:18:21.760 --> 0:18:24.960
<v Speaker 1>show that it's got the security situation under control so

0:18:25.119 --> 0:18:28.480
<v Speaker 1>that you know, people will come back, because tourism was

0:18:28.600 --> 0:18:32.520
<v Speaker 1>very important for the Egyptian economy. However, I think an

0:18:32.560 --> 0:18:36.760
<v Speaker 1>attack like this, UM, even though it's quite far from

0:18:36.760 --> 0:18:39.639
<v Speaker 1>where the resorts are, UM, you know, you see a

0:18:39.640 --> 0:18:42.880
<v Speaker 1>headline like this, and you know that's going to put

0:18:42.880 --> 0:18:46.760
<v Speaker 1>people off coming coming to Egypt so so so so

0:18:47.080 --> 0:18:50.560
<v Speaker 1>that will set them back. Then can I just ask

0:18:50.600 --> 0:18:52.920
<v Speaker 1>you to be a little political force for a moment here,

0:18:52.960 --> 0:18:55.400
<v Speaker 1>because earlier in the week, I believe it was on

0:18:55.440 --> 0:19:00.399
<v Speaker 1>Tuesday that the Lebanese Prime Minister Ad Hariri he with

0:19:00.520 --> 0:19:05.680
<v Speaker 1>the Egyptian President of Delft all CC in UH Cyprus.

0:19:05.760 --> 0:19:09.159
<v Speaker 1>I believe, and I'm wondering, you know, what has been

0:19:09.240 --> 0:19:12.960
<v Speaker 1>going on with Hariri and Hezbollah in Lebanon plus the

0:19:13.080 --> 0:19:17.159
<v Speaker 1>Saudi visit. Is there a reason why you've believed this

0:19:17.320 --> 0:19:22.280
<v Speaker 1>might have occurred at this particular time. UM. I don't

0:19:22.480 --> 0:19:26.720
<v Speaker 1>think that, UM, But those issues are linked. Actually, Um,

0:19:27.160 --> 0:19:32.000
<v Speaker 1>this attack, we believe UM was on a mosque that's

0:19:32.040 --> 0:19:36.159
<v Speaker 1>frequented by Sufi Muslims, and they belonged to a kind

0:19:36.200 --> 0:19:39.440
<v Speaker 1>of a mystical They have a mystical interpretation of Islam

0:19:39.600 --> 0:19:43.800
<v Speaker 1>and Islamic State, and groups like Islamic State are are

0:19:43.960 --> 0:19:47.760
<v Speaker 1>very opposed UM. You know to those kinds of they're

0:19:47.760 --> 0:19:50.119
<v Speaker 1>they're very rigid in their interpretation of Islam, and they

0:19:50.160 --> 0:19:54.200
<v Speaker 1>don't like people who view it differently and worship differently.

0:19:54.800 --> 0:19:59.560
<v Speaker 1>UM and UM. So it looks at the moment like

0:20:00.400 --> 0:20:03.760
<v Speaker 1>they that like the attack was focused or like that

0:20:03.960 --> 0:20:06.879
<v Speaker 1>was the reason. That's that's why domestic there's a purely

0:20:06.960 --> 0:20:10.000
<v Speaker 1>domestic issue to a certain extent. Yes, I don't think

0:20:10.080 --> 0:20:12.840
<v Speaker 1>it was an attack or it doesn't so far look

0:20:13.160 --> 0:20:17.280
<v Speaker 1>like UM, it's related to regional politics or to see

0:20:17.320 --> 0:20:21.720
<v Speaker 1>these recent efforts to kind of play a mediating role

0:20:21.800 --> 0:20:26.560
<v Speaker 1>in various conflicts around the Middle East. UM. And obviously

0:20:26.920 --> 0:20:30.800
<v Speaker 1>the militants in North sign I have attacked to the

0:20:30.960 --> 0:20:38.800
<v Speaker 1>Muslims before, UM, but they've attacked individuals, they've executed individuals,

0:20:38.840 --> 0:20:43.000
<v Speaker 1>they've attacked shrines, but they haven't carried out an attack

0:20:43.160 --> 0:20:45.680
<v Speaker 1>on the scale one more question, because I know you've

0:20:45.720 --> 0:20:48.159
<v Speaker 1>got to get back to the leadership of covering this

0:20:48.880 --> 0:20:53.560
<v Speaker 1>terrible story. Lynn. Is this linked in any way to

0:20:53.720 --> 0:20:57.440
<v Speaker 1>the other challenges of Cairo and particularly the tensions of

0:20:57.520 --> 0:21:02.199
<v Speaker 1>the Muslim Brotherhood or is it separate and discreet? Um,

0:21:02.520 --> 0:21:05.440
<v Speaker 1>It's linked in some ways in in in the sense

0:21:05.560 --> 0:21:09.680
<v Speaker 1>that the crackdown on the Muslim Brotherhood has been you know,

0:21:11.000 --> 0:21:13.920
<v Speaker 1>very I mean, there are thousands of people in jail,

0:21:14.440 --> 0:21:17.800
<v Speaker 1>lots of people have been sentenced to death. UM. You know,

0:21:17.920 --> 0:21:21.080
<v Speaker 1>the group has been outlawed, many many people in exile now.

0:21:21.760 --> 0:21:26.720
<v Speaker 1>And it's linked in the sense that, UM, some disaffected

0:21:26.800 --> 0:21:31.320
<v Speaker 1>Muslim Brotherhood members may have kind of abandoned their their

0:21:31.359 --> 0:21:34.440
<v Speaker 1>commitment to peaceful politics and kind of been encouraged to

0:21:34.560 --> 0:21:38.440
<v Speaker 1>join these more militant groups. In that sense, you know

0:21:38.920 --> 0:21:42.960
<v Speaker 1>that there there is a link, UM, But they're not

0:21:43.119 --> 0:21:45.040
<v Speaker 1>the same group. They're not you know, they're not the

0:21:45.160 --> 0:21:49.480
<v Speaker 1>same people. But yeah, but there are there is certainly

0:21:49.680 --> 0:21:53.200
<v Speaker 1>a sense amongst some you know, particularly among younger people

0:21:53.280 --> 0:21:57.320
<v Speaker 1>who would have been Muslim Brotherhood members, UM, that they

0:21:57.400 --> 0:22:00.200
<v Speaker 1>have no option but to turn to violence, and you know,

0:22:00.320 --> 0:22:03.680
<v Speaker 1>some of them may then be more easily recruited by

0:22:04.400 --> 0:22:08.359
<v Speaker 1>the more militant groups. Linn, thank you so much. Lennoi,

0:22:09.280 --> 0:22:13.120
<v Speaker 1>charge of our Cairo operation, joining us today our North

0:22:13.200 --> 0:22:24.359
<v Speaker 1>Africa Bureau chief. Thanks for listening to the Bloomberg Surveillance podcast.

0:22:24.720 --> 0:22:29.639
<v Speaker 1>Subscribe and listen to interviews on Apple Podcasts, SoundCloud, or

0:22:29.840 --> 0:22:34.080
<v Speaker 1>whichever podcast platform you prefer. I'm on Twitter at Tom

0:22:34.240 --> 0:22:38.080
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0:22:38.560 --> 0:22:39.639
<v Speaker 1>I'm Bloomberg Radio