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Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace on Serious x M Triumph

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Speaker 1: Channel one two. Let me juxtapose two images in your mind.

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Speaker 1: One of a grandmother in her home, kept pristinely, everything

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Speaker 1: in place, being attacked and strangled dead. Now imagine this,

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Speaker 1: You know that moment when they're putting a needle in

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Speaker 1: your mouth and they're novacating you for some procedure, or

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Speaker 1: they put a little little gas mask on you and

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Speaker 1: you pass out and you wake up and all the

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Speaker 1: dental surgery is done. Well, imagining that guy a hovering

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Speaker 1: around you with the needle in his hand. The dentist

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Speaker 1: just gets charged from murder. Now what do those two

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Speaker 1: things have to do with each other? I Nancy Grace,

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Speaker 1: this is Crime Stories, Thank you for being with us.

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Speaker 1: A sixty seven year old grandmother. It's found dead in

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Speaker 1: her own home, a very beautiful mansion in Beverly Hills,

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Speaker 1: and now, out of the blue, the dentist to the stars,

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Speaker 1: Daniel Yukobe, arrested charged with the grandma's murder. Ps he's

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Speaker 1: also her son. To Pam for Crime Stories, investigative reporter

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Speaker 1: joining us, Let's just start at the beginning. Why the

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Speaker 1: police come to the victim's home to start with, Well, sure, Um,

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Speaker 1: the daughter and the dentist brother and sister had not

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Speaker 1: heard from their mother. The two of them, Daniel Yakobi

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Speaker 1: and the sister go over to the home because they

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Speaker 1: hadn't heard from their mother. They kept trying to call,

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Speaker 1: couldn't get in touch with her. They go to their

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Speaker 1: mother's home violent and they find her there unconscious and unresponsive,

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Speaker 1: and that's when her daughter called nine one one. First

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Speaker 1: responders arrive. She's pronounced dead right there at her home.

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Speaker 1: And in fact, police say that she was probably dead

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Speaker 1: twenty four hours before they even arrived. And at that

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Speaker 1: point police, yeah, they and then they get suspicious of

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Speaker 1: the cause of death. Things did not add up, and

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Speaker 1: that's when the investigation started. Well, I'm curious, uh, Pamela

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Speaker 1: for Crime Stories investigative reporter. Could they not tell at

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Speaker 1: the beginning that it was a manual or licatur's triangulation

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Speaker 1: or was it asphyxiation such as Um putting a pillow

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Speaker 1: over her head? Do we know the co d cause

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Speaker 1: of death? Believe they are ruling this strangulation at this point.

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Speaker 1: And so at that point they started looking at everything

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Speaker 1: in the house and according to police, they got their uh,

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Speaker 1: electronic devices, computers. Whatever evidence they found, which they have

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Speaker 1: not released at this time, led them to believe that

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Speaker 1: it was Daniel that actually strangled his mother. You know,

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Speaker 1: let's just talk for a moment about the crime scene.

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Speaker 1: Karen Smith joining me, forensics expert. She and I have

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Speaker 1: had the occasion to do several scientific experiments together, also

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Speaker 1: with me renowned defense attorney out of the California jurisdiction,

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Speaker 1: Troy Slayton, Hey, Troy, before I go to Karen Smith,

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Speaker 1: if in fact he did at the so called Dentists

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Speaker 1: to the Stars, Um, how cool of a cucumber must

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Speaker 1: he be to wait the twenty four hours knowing his

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Speaker 1: mother is dead, His mother, his flesh and blood, is dead,

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Speaker 1: murdered in her home, and he waits while everybody pretends,

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Speaker 1: you know, he pretends to call her and check on her,

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Speaker 1: and the sisters calling and checking on mom, and then

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Speaker 1: he goes with the sister over there and what there's

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Speaker 1: momm He's dead, buddy. I'm so surprised, Troy. He's gonna

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Speaker 1: have to give an Academy Award winning performance then, because

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Speaker 1: nobody knows you better than your mom and dad or

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Speaker 1: your sister and so he's gonna have to put on

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Speaker 1: a performance more than when you snuck into the your

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Speaker 1: your parents present supply during Christmas and had to pretend

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Speaker 1: like you didn't know what you were getting that next morning.

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Speaker 1: You know, it's so funny you said that, Troy, because

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Speaker 1: I can look at my brother, I can look at

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Speaker 1: him antil when he's lying, exactly, Okay, my sister. My

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Speaker 1: sister never lies, Okay, so I don't have to tell

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Speaker 1: whether she's lying or not. My brother can totally pull

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Speaker 1: when over you. But he gets his funny look, and

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Speaker 1: it's in the eyes. I can't it's the way he

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Speaker 1: looks at you when he's trying to tell you a lie. Um,

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Speaker 1: And I can do the same thing with John, David

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Speaker 1: and Lucy. It's just a subtle thing. Now. I always

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Speaker 1: tell my husband I know he's lying because his lips

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Speaker 1: are moving. Yeah, it really makes him mad. But uh,

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Speaker 1: that's just a joke, okay, because I know his sisters

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Speaker 1: listening right now, and she'll totally wrap me out. But

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Speaker 1: the children will. They just have a certain look on

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Speaker 1: their face. So you're totally right, Troy Slaton. His sister

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Speaker 1: was with him when they go into the home and

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Speaker 1: find their mom dad. So for him to pretend that

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Speaker 1: he is surprised that he didn't know this, he would

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Speaker 1: have to put on such an incredible performance that he

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Speaker 1: would have to trick the person that has known him

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Speaker 1: his entire life, who is able to smell bs when

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Speaker 1: it's coming out of her own brother. We'll catch this.

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Speaker 1: Hold on, Troy, listen to this. After his mom's death,

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Speaker 1: ye Kobe takes to social media, calling her quote an

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Speaker 1: amazing mother and truthfully saying not a day goes by

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Speaker 1: he doesn't think of her and how he killed her.

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Speaker 1: Oh wait, sorry, he didn't add that on the end,

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Speaker 1: how he thinks of her every single day. And according

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Speaker 1: to police, that's a pretty chilling statement because they believe

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Speaker 1: firmly he is the one that murdered his own mother

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Speaker 1: for money. I mean, for one thing, Troy Slayton, she

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Speaker 1: had quite the crib. It was a posh seven million

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Speaker 1: dollar Beverly Hills mansion. I mean, Troy, that's your neck

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Speaker 1: of the woods. Can you even have a home in

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Speaker 1: Beverly Hills for less than a million dollars? Not really,

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Speaker 1: but those would be chilling statements. When he took to

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Speaker 1: social media and was praising his mother. Those would be

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Speaker 1: chilling and less. He's innocent unless he really did mourn

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Speaker 1: her loss. Unless he really is the wrong guy. Because

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Speaker 1: it took a allegedly a high tech unit of the

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Speaker 1: Beverly Hills Police Department and working with others to try

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Speaker 1: and piece together and electronic footprint and to put together

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Speaker 1: a financial motive for this crime, this may not have

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Speaker 1: been him. Straight to Karen Smith. Karen Smith joining us

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Speaker 1: from the Florida jurisdiction UH known across the country as

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Speaker 1: an expert influences. Let's talk about the crime, saying here

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Speaker 1: and what strikes you? A lot of things struck me, Nancy.

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Speaker 1: As a matter of fact, when I read this, my

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Speaker 1: little forensic brain spun. We're gonna deal with the physical

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Speaker 1: evidence first, and that's the body. You talked about strangulation.

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Speaker 1: Are we dealing with a ligature? Are we dealing with

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Speaker 1: manual strangulation? Um? Was there a handprint on her neck

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Speaker 1: that leads me to d n A not necessarily DNA

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Speaker 1: from her skin, but if there were DNA under her

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Speaker 1: nails from a struggle, and it comes back to Daniel

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Speaker 1: Ka Kobe, He's going to have to explain that you're

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Speaker 1: dealing with evidence on her body, like lividity, the blood

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Speaker 1: pooling when blood settles after death. Was she moved that's

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Speaker 1: a big indicator. Did uh he moved the body after

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Speaker 1: she had passed away? And there's also something called patiki i,

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Speaker 1: which is small little blood vessels around the eye and

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Speaker 1: in the sclera of the eye that burst during strangulation.

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Speaker 1: Those are telltale signs for the corner and for investigators

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Speaker 1: to know that this was a wrongful death. It wasn't natural.

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Speaker 1: You've got the scene. It's a mansion, it's a seven

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Speaker 1: million dollar mansion. I'm assuming there's an alarm system. Um,

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Speaker 1: was it disabled? Did somebody have the code? Was it

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Speaker 1: reset at some point? Who has the code? And who

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Speaker 1: turned it off and went? Where there signs the forced entry?

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Speaker 1: If not, that's a huge clue for investor gators. You're

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Speaker 1: talking with digital evidence, computer searches. Was he dumb enough

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Speaker 1: to search for strangulation or asphyxiation? Um? Did he go

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Speaker 1: in and do something as innocuous is looking at the

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Speaker 1: value of the home, and that leads to the financial motivation?

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Speaker 1: Was the will changed? Who gets what? Did he have

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Speaker 1: money problems? Was there an insurance policy, And basically what

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Speaker 1: it all comes down to is if there was no

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Speaker 1: sign of fourth entry, and if there's no signs of

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Speaker 1: theft or burglary, and if there's no struggle, were left

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Speaker 1: with someone with limited motivation, somebody that she either allowed

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Speaker 1: in the house or somebody who knew the alarm code,

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Speaker 1: knew her habits and knew their way around the house.

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Speaker 1: So that limits my suspect pool right there. Well, we

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Speaker 1: do know from Lieutenant Elizabeth Albanice that the crime was

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Speaker 1: committed with a motivation of financial gain. The crime was

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Speaker 1: committed um with the motivation of financial gain, and certainly

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Speaker 1: that's yeah, very disturbing and that in this situation. But

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Speaker 1: homicide investigation was initiated UH that same night, and as

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Speaker 1: they began to work through their investigation and talk to

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Speaker 1: witnesses and uncover some evidence, that's what led them to

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Speaker 1: believe that her son was in fact the suspect in

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Speaker 1: the homicide because there was a life insurance policy and

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Speaker 1: I would bet, if I were a betting woman, that

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Speaker 1: it was made out to beneficiary's son and daughter. Much

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Speaker 1: less the multimillion dollar mansions set on invaluable land in

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Speaker 1: the middle of Beverly Hills, he was leading a double life.

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Speaker 1: If these claims are true, take a listen to his

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Speaker 1: ad Take a listen to his ad, Alan do what

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Speaker 1: is it that he calls it about his smile factory?

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Speaker 1: What does he say his his dental offices are smiles Centers.

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Speaker 1: Smiles centers. Okay, all listen to this. The first small

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Speaker 1: center is located on Resuitable of Ard in the heart

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Speaker 1: of downtown Northridge in the San Fernando Valley. The various

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Speaker 1: procedures we offer at our offices include zoom whitening, in

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Speaker 1: visiligne clear correct. We do all types of veneers, from

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Speaker 1: Da Vinci to lumineers. We're all about the people. We're

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Speaker 1: all about building relationships and building a foundation of better

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Speaker 1: health for all of our clients, all of our patients.

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Speaker 1: That was the suspect. They quote loving son Daniel Yukobe

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Speaker 1: as he touts his quote Smile Center. This is another

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Speaker 1: quote from him, Mom, I love you and miss you.

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Speaker 1: No words can express what you mean to me. Every

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Speaker 1: single dollar Troy Slaton, every single dollar Troy unless he

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Speaker 1: didn't do it. That's because somebody is going to benefit financially,

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Speaker 1: which naturally happens to children. Of people that have money,

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Speaker 1: they leave their money to their children. That doesn't mean

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Speaker 1: that their children killed them in order to get the money.

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Speaker 1: Good gravy, Jackie. Have you seen this home? Have you

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Speaker 1: looked at this? I think, Um, I'm pretty sure that

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Speaker 1: I have walt or jogged by this before and stared,

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Speaker 1: gaulped and all the beautiful, incredible day Come over here

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Speaker 1: and look at this home. I've got my rant day

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Speaker 1: here with me. Day. Do they have anything like that

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Speaker 1: in Birmingham? Because I know they don't make and I'm

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Speaker 1: pretty sure no, probably not. Wow. All right, Okay, enough

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Speaker 1: staring at home? This is what I know. Weigh in

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Speaker 1: on this. Karen Smith. Detectives claim they use a high used,

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Speaker 1: high tech crime task force to search through computers and

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Speaker 1: ectronic devices, and that it is there if they found

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Speaker 1: clues that led police to believe the Sun is the killer.

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Speaker 1: I mean, doesn't even have enough money in a smile factory,

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Speaker 1: you would think so. And they're going to do a

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Speaker 1: deep dive into digital evidence. They're gonna need a warrant,

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Speaker 1: so obviously they had some kind of probable cause to

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Speaker 1: lead them to obtain that warrant and do this digital

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Speaker 1: evidence search on all of his devices. So I don't

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Speaker 1: know what that would be and what would give them

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Speaker 1: the PC to do that, but obviously they had it,

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Speaker 1: So I'm really curious to find out what they found.

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Speaker 1: I have a good idea, but I have an idea

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Speaker 1: to see how it plays out. You know. Another thing

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Speaker 1: I'm looking at is the possibility at this mansion and

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Speaker 1: it it truly is a mansion if they have surveillance video.

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Speaker 1: Once he spotted on surveillance video was the alarm, Like

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Speaker 1: when you go in a home, for all of you listening,

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Speaker 1: don't put your alarm keypad in an obvious place like

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Speaker 1: right and side the door. Put it somewhere else or

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Speaker 1: somebody coming in doesn't have immediate access to it. Anyway,

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Speaker 1: did he was he keyed in or did she expect

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Speaker 1: him to be coming and she turned the alarm off?

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Speaker 1: When you say you think you know what the forensic

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Speaker 1: evidence is based on the computer and electronic searches, Karen,

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Speaker 1: what do you what do you mean by that? Well,

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Speaker 1: to me, if we're looking at a financial gain, which

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Speaker 1: is what they've said you're going to be looking at,

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Speaker 1: you know, Wills, did he do searches for that? Did

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Speaker 1: he pull it up. Did he alter it? Did he

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Speaker 1: go in and look for home values? Did he look

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Speaker 1: at searches for God forbid, strangulation, asphyxiation, things like that? Um?

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Speaker 1: What was he doing in financial records? If that's the motivation,

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Speaker 1: that's where they're going to focus their investigation. Is his

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Speaker 1: financial history? Is he in dire straits? Does he have

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Speaker 1: a need for money? Um? What was he doing looking

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Speaker 1: at these financial records? Are going in and looking in

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Speaker 1: the computer? Uh to lead them to this financial gain motivation?

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Speaker 1: Let me just pause as we discuss a sixty seven

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Speaker 1: year old grandmother found dead in her own home and

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Speaker 1: now the dentists to the Stars Daniel Yu Kobe her

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Speaker 1: son arrested charged with murder. I want to thank our

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Speaker 1: partner today on series Sex M one thirty two. You know,

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Speaker 1: let's just talk for a moment about the dentists to

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Speaker 1: the stars. Daniel Yu Kobe arrested. Charged. He is the

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Speaker 1: one that murdered his own mother. This is another aspect

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Speaker 1: to his personality. I don't know if it's um probative,

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Speaker 1: in other words, proves anything at trial, but Alan Duke.

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Speaker 1: Everybody out in Beverly Hills, you know, from the waitress

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Speaker 1: at the burger place to the gas stationed everybody is

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Speaker 1: pushing a script or a quote project. I mean everybody

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Speaker 1: from the kids playground, you name it. Um, I learned

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Speaker 1: that when I was out there living for dancing with

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Speaker 1: the stars. He refers to himself as dentist to the

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Speaker 1: Stars Alan and prior to his arrest for murder, he

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Speaker 1: was a high profile dentist to the stars and has

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Speaker 1: posted photos of himself here he is on his own website.

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Speaker 1: Here's one with the star fresh Prince of bel Air,

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Speaker 1: Alfonso Ribero. But you know what, this is woefully out

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Speaker 1: of date. Everybody knows, or at least if you have

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Speaker 1: ten your old twins, that this guy's also was the

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Speaker 1: host or is the host of America's Funniest Videos after

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Speaker 1: Tom Bergeron left. Okay, this so he is posting photos

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Speaker 1: of himself with various stars, calling himself dentist to the stars.

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Speaker 1: They don't call him that, he calls himself that. Look,

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Speaker 1: if you're Troy Slayton's dentist, your dentist to a star,

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Speaker 1: quit save it, save it Troy. You know what, Okay,

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Speaker 1: I'm going to um leave out allan do in the

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Speaker 1: sucking up in that corridor and go to Troy Slaton. Troy,

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Speaker 1: what do you do with the client that posts one

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Speaker 1: selfie after the next of himself with stars. If I

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Speaker 1: represent somebody, I asked them to take down immediately any

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Speaker 1: type of social media at all. I don't want, uh.

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Speaker 1: And that's whether before they're arrested or after they're arrested.

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Speaker 1: I don't want savvy prosecutors like yourself to be able

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Speaker 1: to pick and choose things from their social media footprint,

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Speaker 1: from their history and use that as people's exhibit one

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Speaker 1: in court to paint a picture that may not be accurate,

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Speaker 1: that may not have anything to do with the case

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Speaker 1: at hand. You know, I'm looking at his mother, Jack.

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Speaker 1: You look at her. She's very attractive. She kind of

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Speaker 1: looked in a way. She looks to me like Sally Fields,

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Speaker 1: but with lighter hair. She's very young, looking to be

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Speaker 1: a grandma. And she's got a little teacup puppy with her.

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Speaker 1: And if that her home on the inside, it's pretty swank.

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Speaker 1: This is what I know. Her own son now charged

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Speaker 1: in his mother's strangulation. Uh. Pamela fur was right. It's strangulation,

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Speaker 1: not asphyxiation, which means he had to either do it

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Speaker 1: manually with his own hands or by ligature, which is

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Speaker 1: with a rope or stalking, strangle the life out of

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Speaker 1: his own mother. Pamela fur investigative reporter for Crime Stories.

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Speaker 1: What more do we know now? We know at this

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Speaker 1: point that he is being held without bond. He has

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Speaker 1: pleaded not guilty. He has a defense attorney, Trent Copeland,

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Speaker 1: who has said to the press, no one is perfect,

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Speaker 1: No investigation is perfect. I'm quoting. I hope to prove

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Speaker 1: that my client is innocent, and I hope to also

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Speaker 1: prove this investigation was somehow flaw Okay us in to this,

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Speaker 1: No one's perfect, No investigation is perfect, and I hope

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Speaker 1: to prove that my client's innocent, and I hope to

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Speaker 1: also prove that this investigation was somehow flawed, because clearly

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Speaker 1: our view is that this is not the right person. Again,

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Speaker 1: that's Trent to Copeland, his defense attorney, and he is

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Speaker 1: expected to be back in court, Daniel your Kobe on

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Speaker 1: March nineteen for a preliminary hearing. Well, we do know this,

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Speaker 1: Troy Sletton. They're charging him with one account of murder

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Speaker 1: with special circumstances. You know what that means. Special circumstances

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Speaker 1: means the death penalty. In here in California, they would

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Speaker 1: need to prove that he had something other than just

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Speaker 1: the murder, that he was lying in wait, that there

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Speaker 1: was a lot of premeditation financial gain. Financial gain could

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Speaker 1: also be a special circumstance. Yes, I you know, Troy,

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Speaker 1: explain to the listeners right here on Serious Sex in

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Speaker 1: two why financial gain as a motive is deemed a

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Speaker 1: special circumstance. There are a lot of murdyers, okay, a lot.

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Speaker 1: I don't even know how many murders homicides I investigated

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Speaker 1: and tried. But there are certain categories called aggravating circumstances,

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Speaker 1: are special circumstances, as it's called in California, which means

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Speaker 1: when the d A puts that onto a murder charge,

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Speaker 1: you're looking at the death penalty. Why is financial gain

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Speaker 1: considered so so different from say, heat of passion. Not

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Speaker 1: every murder is the same, and we don't seek to

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Speaker 1: impose the death penalty every time there's a murder. So

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Speaker 1: we there are special classes of murders that we as

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Speaker 1: a society look at as particularly heinous. So when a

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Speaker 1: murder is committed against multiple people, against law enforcement officers,

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Speaker 1: when they're is somebody who is planning and plotting the murder,

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Speaker 1: or doing it in order to take a life for

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Speaker 1: financial gain, to take a life for money, that's particularly

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Speaker 1: heinous and makes a person potentially eligible for the death penalty. Well,

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Speaker 1: I believe the reason that financial gain is considered a

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Speaker 1: special circumstance that is death penalty eligible is because it's

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Speaker 1: cold and calculated, and you place money over human life.

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Speaker 1: That's a lot different than getting into a fight in

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Speaker 1: a bar and pulling a gun and shooting it. Yes,

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Speaker 1: that's murder too, but this financial gain is clearly thought

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Speaker 1: out ahead of time, and a human life, your own

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Speaker 1: mother's life means less to you then the value of

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Speaker 1: her home. Right now, he is behind bars and presumed

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Speaker 1: innocent until proven guilty. A brutal serial killer. There's no

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Speaker 1: doubt about the fact that he had done the deed,

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Speaker 1: But was his inspiration from a Stephen King story? WHOA

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Speaker 1: I Meancy Grace? This is crime stories. Thank you for

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Speaker 1: being with us, police say a landscape gardener. A lawn

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Speaker 1: man is accused of murdering at least five men, at

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Speaker 1: least five then scattering the remains across thirty different properties,

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Speaker 1: and they are saying his m O, his motus operandi.

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Speaker 1: His method of operation is eerily, eerily similar to that

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Speaker 1: of Stephen King's lawnmower man. You know, Stephen King lives

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Speaker 1: in a world of horror, all his built by his

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Speaker 1: own construction. He may have been considered to be curious

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Speaker 1: in nature. Let's just say eclectic, eccentric, unique would be

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Speaker 1: a good way to describe him. His books have turned

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Speaker 1: into movies. He's wildly successful, but at this hour he's

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Speaker 1: making the headlines in an entirely different way as the

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Speaker 1: perceived inspiration for a real life serial killer. Joining me

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Speaker 1: right now, Crime Stories investigative reporter John Limley, John, what

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Speaker 1: do we know, Nancy? Investigators began digging quite literally on

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Speaker 1: January right, stop right there, John Limley. Who ever said

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Speaker 1: you did not have a sense of humor? Okay, who

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Speaker 1: ever said that me? Takes it all back? Okay, start over.

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Speaker 1: He started digging, and I noticed the way he emphasized digging. Okay,

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Speaker 1: go ahead, My My theater background is shining through. These

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Speaker 1: investigators really did begin not only investigating, but actually digging

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Speaker 1: on January eighth, and a neighborhood that's right next to

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Speaker 1: Toronto's Big Cemetery, Mount Pleasant Police knocked on the door

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Speaker 1: a fifty three Mallory Crescent. It's a sprawling home owned

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Speaker 1: by Karen Fraser and her husband Ron Smithe Mallory Crescent. Yes,

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Speaker 1: Justice got Morgan descine Investigator. That sounds like it's out

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Speaker 1: of a book. Fifty three Mallory Crescent. That doesn't even

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Speaker 1: sound real? Is that just me from reading too many

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Speaker 1: crime stories? It sounds completely my No, it does have

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Speaker 1: a rather gothic, uh tilt to it. I'd have to say, well,

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Speaker 1: I didn't thank gothic. Dr Brian Russell. I thought it

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Speaker 1: sounded like, you know, I would get that address a

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Speaker 1: little hamlet, a little village somewhere outside of London, fifty

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Speaker 1: three Mallory Crests. And of course Morgan thinks it's like

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Speaker 1: foreboding and evil, But to me, it sounds like it's

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Speaker 1: out of an Agatha Christie novel. Yeah, it's I suppose

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Speaker 1: that that had not struck me as being that unusual.

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Speaker 1: But I mean, aren't you the lawyer and psychologist. Aren't

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Speaker 1: you supposed to pick things up? Have you ever seen

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Speaker 1: psych Yes? That's how I imagine, you know, because fifty

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Speaker 1: three you know what? Never mind back to you, John

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Speaker 1: Lemley Crime Stories, investigative reporter. Since the men are not

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Speaker 1: as sensitive and as intuitive as some people may are,

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Speaker 1: we will go forward. Go ahead, John Lamley. So they

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Speaker 1: knock on the door. What happens right? Officers show this

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Speaker 1: startled elderly couple a search warrant and give them twenty

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Speaker 1: minutes to vacate the property so they can begin what

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Speaker 1: emerged as quite a grisly task. Moments later, several white

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Speaker 1: police fans pull up crowd the street. Officers began to

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Speaker 1: sift through the concert contents of the couple's garage that's

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Speaker 1: stuffed with tools and planters and bags of soil. A

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Speaker 1: few days later, neighbors say investigators erect a huge tent

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Speaker 1: in the backyard and beginning began to use a huge

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Speaker 1: generator to thaw the frozen ground in preparation for excavation.

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Speaker 1: Nearly two weeks after they began digging up the backyard

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Speaker 1: at Mallory Crescent, the discovery of human remains absolutely sets panic.

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Speaker 1: In a city known for its quiet, leafy neighborhoods and

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Speaker 1: a relatively low crime rate. The city had a serial

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Speaker 1: killer on its hands. His name is Bruce MacArthur, a

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Speaker 1: landscaper and shockingly, had just wrapped up a part time

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Speaker 1: stint playing Santa Clause during the holiday season. Oh man,

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Speaker 1: you always have the one little twist fat that just

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Speaker 1: sends me over the edge. John Limley, John Linley joining

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Speaker 1: me Crime Stories investigative reporters. So they dig up one body.

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Speaker 1: I can just imagine this little couple with me. Also

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Speaker 1: Jackie Howard and Alan Duke. Dr Brian Russell, lawyer and psychologist,

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Speaker 1: host of the hit investigation discovery series Fatal Vows. Joseph

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Speaker 1: Scott Morgan, deasing investigator, forensics expert and Professor of forensics

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Speaker 1: at Jacksonville State University. Alan Duke, all right, I know

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Speaker 1: you're not a crime scene expert, but you do watch

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Speaker 1: a lot of movies and uh, one of us me

426
00:29:42,760 --> 00:29:46,240
Speaker 1: reads a lot of books. This sounds straight out of

427
00:29:46,240 --> 00:29:49,320
Speaker 1: a movie set. When you knock on the door and

428
00:29:49,360 --> 00:29:53,360
Speaker 1: to a little old couple answer minding their own business,

429
00:29:53,360 --> 00:29:56,360
Speaker 1: and suddenly they're like, get on the street, we're executing

430
00:29:56,400 --> 00:30:00,480
Speaker 1: a search warrant. You got twenty minutes, whoe And then

431
00:30:00,560 --> 00:30:03,440
Speaker 1: to their mortification, find a dead body in the backyard.

432
00:30:03,760 --> 00:30:06,520
Speaker 1: Oh gosh, it gets even worse than that, and I'm

433
00:30:06,520 --> 00:30:11,040
Speaker 1: just fascinated listening to the screenwriter John Limley tell this story.

434
00:30:11,120 --> 00:30:13,280
Speaker 1: I mean, that's what he should be doing, not journalism.

435
00:30:13,400 --> 00:30:17,200
Speaker 1: This is uh okay, you know what, Alan, thank you

436
00:30:17,280 --> 00:30:20,200
Speaker 1: for the career advice. Isn't it true, John Limley, that

437
00:30:20,320 --> 00:30:24,560
Speaker 1: this couple had allowed the suspect to store equipment in

438
00:30:24,600 --> 00:30:27,760
Speaker 1: a shed in exchange for free lawn care. That would

439
00:30:27,760 --> 00:30:30,680
Speaker 1: be how they would be linked to this guy. Correct, Nancy,

440
00:30:30,800 --> 00:30:34,240
Speaker 1: For about ten years they had known mac Arthur, had

441
00:30:34,240 --> 00:30:38,600
Speaker 1: allowed him to uh keep quite a number of his

442
00:30:38,600 --> 00:30:43,240
Speaker 1: his tools, even uh some small plants and pots and such.

443
00:30:43,720 --> 00:30:49,680
Speaker 1: They're in their garage. So a fictional horror story is

444
00:30:49,800 --> 00:30:54,000
Speaker 1: playing out for real when police hone in on a

445
00:30:54,080 --> 00:30:59,560
Speaker 1: guy they believe has slaughtered at least five men and

446
00:31:00,360 --> 00:31:08,280
Speaker 1: hiding their dismembered body parts and gardens all across the city. Interesting,

447
00:31:08,560 --> 00:31:14,160
Speaker 1: John Limley, he apparently buried this guy's body parts and

448
00:31:14,200 --> 00:31:18,040
Speaker 1: this elderly couple's backyard in their garden, the same garden

449
00:31:18,320 --> 00:31:21,720
Speaker 1: he had been working on. What about the other four

450
00:31:21,840 --> 00:31:26,440
Speaker 1: alleged victims. Were they also dismembered and where were they

451
00:31:26,480 --> 00:31:29,560
Speaker 1: found or have they been found? Well? Right now the

452
00:31:29,600 --> 00:31:33,720
Speaker 1: police are looking on matching up remains that they've found

453
00:31:34,200 --> 00:31:38,760
Speaker 1: with some men who have been missing in some cases

454
00:31:38,880 --> 00:31:42,440
Speaker 1: for several years now. So so the key is they

455
00:31:42,520 --> 00:31:46,440
Speaker 1: have bodies, they have names, and for at least three

456
00:31:46,480 --> 00:31:49,640
Speaker 1: of those, uh, it's going to take some more research

457
00:31:49,680 --> 00:31:53,160
Speaker 1: and testing to put those names and bodies together. I'm

458
00:31:53,160 --> 00:31:56,000
Speaker 1: gonna get to you on that, Joseph Scott Morgan, um

459
00:31:56,120 --> 00:32:00,000
Speaker 1: death sting investigator. But to Dr Brian Russell, lawyer and psychologist,

460
00:32:00,160 --> 00:32:06,080
Speaker 1: host of Fatal Vows on I D this landscaper Bruce

461
00:32:06,160 --> 00:32:10,920
Speaker 1: McArthur is now suspected in five different murders, at least

462
00:32:11,920 --> 00:32:17,040
Speaker 1: they police say, but discovered a number of hacked up corpses,

463
00:32:17,560 --> 00:32:24,880
Speaker 1: hidden and large planters across the city. Now, what's crazy er,

464
00:32:25,280 --> 00:32:30,720
Speaker 1: doctor Brian. The murders resemble almost to the tea the

465
00:32:30,800 --> 00:32:34,360
Speaker 1: plot in lawnmower Man. Now, that was a short story

466
00:32:34,520 --> 00:32:39,560
Speaker 1: by horror writer Stephen King that centers around a sex

467
00:32:39,640 --> 00:32:46,720
Speaker 1: crazy landscaper who murders the suburban owner who had hired him.

468
00:32:46,760 --> 00:32:49,640
Speaker 1: And it goes from there that that story only ends

469
00:32:49,640 --> 00:32:55,080
Speaker 1: when police discovered those victims dead bodies hidden under the

470
00:32:55,120 --> 00:32:59,520
Speaker 1: backyard bird bath and then strown and hidden across a

471
00:32:59,680 --> 00:33:03,280
Speaker 1: man cured lawn under you know, the grass, but in

472
00:33:03,320 --> 00:33:06,960
Speaker 1: different parts. And now police are on a real life

473
00:33:06,960 --> 00:33:11,320
Speaker 1: scavenger hunt for bodies. Dr Brian Russell, you're the shrink.

474
00:33:11,880 --> 00:33:14,520
Speaker 1: Help me out. You know, when I look at this case, Nancy,

475
00:33:14,600 --> 00:33:18,840
Speaker 1: it seems more to me, like you know, as we've

476
00:33:18,840 --> 00:33:23,000
Speaker 1: seen with many of these killers, it's it's a convenience thing.

477
00:33:23,120 --> 00:33:26,480
Speaker 1: It's a you know, what can I do that to

478
00:33:26,560 --> 00:33:30,520
Speaker 1: conceal the evidence of my crimes that is available to

479
00:33:30,640 --> 00:33:34,440
Speaker 1: me easily, And so for him as a landscaper, concealing

480
00:33:34,440 --> 00:33:37,200
Speaker 1: the bodies in the landscaping was the easy thing. You know.

481
00:33:37,480 --> 00:33:41,000
Speaker 1: It's like kind of the storyline of Sweeney Todd. You

482
00:33:41,040 --> 00:33:44,719
Speaker 1: know that the horrifying storyline of Remember Sweeney Todd was

483
00:33:44,800 --> 00:33:49,760
Speaker 1: the the the guy who whose wife had the bakery

484
00:33:49,880 --> 00:33:52,280
Speaker 1: and he was the barber, and he would kill demon

485
00:33:52,320 --> 00:33:54,240
Speaker 1: barber of Fleet Street, and he would kill people and

486
00:33:54,240 --> 00:33:57,120
Speaker 1: then the wife would bake him into the pies. It's

487
00:33:57,160 --> 00:34:01,520
Speaker 1: it's like that, Okay, Dr Brian. I appreciate your flair

488
00:34:01,640 --> 00:34:07,400
Speaker 1: for the theatric but can we talk about reality just

489
00:34:07,480 --> 00:34:11,120
Speaker 1: a moment. Let me just rain in the wild imaginations

490
00:34:11,160 --> 00:34:15,399
Speaker 1: of these men, Jackie. They're all going hysterical. I'm so

491
00:34:15,440 --> 00:34:18,239
Speaker 1: happy I got to say some men were hysterical, because

492
00:34:18,280 --> 00:34:22,239
Speaker 1: it's always women that are allegedly hysterical. Oh now I

493
00:34:22,320 --> 00:34:25,360
Speaker 1: hear some maniacal laughing on the other end. Okay, but

494
00:34:26,000 --> 00:34:30,799
Speaker 1: let's get away from Broadway and um scripts and talk

495
00:34:30,840 --> 00:34:33,560
Speaker 1: about reality. Dr Brian Russell I would like to point

496
00:34:33,560 --> 00:34:37,879
Speaker 1: out in the real world is that killers often do

497
00:34:37,960 --> 00:34:41,120
Speaker 1: the deed and dispose of the body where they are comfortable.

498
00:34:41,320 --> 00:34:46,720
Speaker 1: For instance, Scott Peterson fisherman he dubbed Lacy and Connor's

499
00:34:46,719 --> 00:34:51,520
Speaker 1: dead bodies in San Francisco Bay. Other people, Uh, they're hunters.

500
00:34:51,680 --> 00:34:54,800
Speaker 1: They hide the bodies out in the woods or hikers.

501
00:34:55,239 --> 00:34:58,960
Speaker 1: In this case, this guy is a lawn expert. So

502
00:34:59,120 --> 00:35:03,960
Speaker 1: all across the city police now believe Bruce MacArthur has

503
00:35:04,200 --> 00:35:08,200
Speaker 1: hacked up bodies and hidden them in lawns where he

504
00:35:08,360 --> 00:35:14,120
Speaker 1: worked Forget about Sweeney Todd. He's not even real. Okay, guys,

505
00:35:14,360 --> 00:35:17,040
Speaker 1: help me out here. Is that not exactly what I said.

506
00:35:18,440 --> 00:35:21,240
Speaker 1: It's a it's a convenience thing. They put the bodies

507
00:35:21,320 --> 00:35:24,560
Speaker 1: where it's easy for them to put them in and

508
00:35:24,600 --> 00:35:27,319
Speaker 1: where they know about. And this is a landscaper, and

509
00:35:27,440 --> 00:35:30,400
Speaker 1: where he's got easy access. What he knows about is

510
00:35:30,760 --> 00:35:34,839
Speaker 1: putting them in the landscaping. Yeah, yeah, just got Morgan. Uh.

511
00:35:34,920 --> 00:35:40,040
Speaker 1: Now I'm on Russell's wavelength because I really believe people

512
00:35:40,560 --> 00:35:44,160
Speaker 1: stay in their habits. We are creatures of habits. Even

513
00:35:44,200 --> 00:35:47,240
Speaker 1: though you may be off the chart as a serial

514
00:35:47,320 --> 00:35:52,320
Speaker 1: killer or some other extreme, still, we are humans. And

515
00:35:52,600 --> 00:35:56,320
Speaker 1: this was his habit. He knew these lawns, he knew

516
00:35:56,400 --> 00:35:59,400
Speaker 1: how they were landscaped. He knew where a body literally

517
00:35:59,480 --> 00:36:02,200
Speaker 1: would never be found, much less a part of a body.

518
00:36:02,440 --> 00:36:05,600
Speaker 1: Isn't that true? You're the DestinE investigator, you know that.

519
00:36:05,600 --> 00:36:08,879
Speaker 1: That sounds like an interesting statistical study that should be

520
00:36:09,160 --> 00:36:14,520
Speaker 1: commissioned as to the disposal of human bodies. Wants a murder, Yeah,

521
00:36:14,560 --> 00:36:17,680
Speaker 1: I'd agree, Nancy. Let me throw another number out to

522
00:36:17,719 --> 00:36:20,919
Speaker 1: you here. That's kind of mind boggling. Is the number thirty.

523
00:36:21,160 --> 00:36:24,720
Speaker 1: That's how many clients this guy had, the accused thirty

524
00:36:24,760 --> 00:36:29,120
Speaker 1: clients dispersed over over this area. Now, even though the

525
00:36:29,200 --> 00:36:34,600
Speaker 1: geographically uh in this area, they might be very diverse neighborhood, say,

526
00:36:34,640 --> 00:36:38,319
Speaker 1: for instance, it is the environment which he dwelled, where

527
00:36:38,320 --> 00:36:42,120
Speaker 1: he cut grass. He didn't uh lawn work, and that

528
00:36:42,239 --> 00:36:46,320
Speaker 1: sort of thing. So the police from an investigative standpoint,

529
00:36:46,480 --> 00:36:49,360
Speaker 1: have a real job on their hands, don't they, Because

530
00:36:50,040 --> 00:36:52,960
Speaker 1: thirty different clients that this guy had. And I'd like

531
00:36:53,040 --> 00:36:55,520
Speaker 1: to see kind of how this pattern looks on a map,

532
00:36:55,760 --> 00:36:58,120
Speaker 1: which is one of the things we do in serial investigations,

533
00:36:58,600 --> 00:37:01,520
Speaker 1: see where this pattern is, how far out it expands.

534
00:37:02,480 --> 00:37:05,120
Speaker 1: Some of the things that that you know that the

535
00:37:05,200 --> 00:37:09,040
Speaker 1: police and crime scene technologists and forensic science are looking for.

536
00:37:09,200 --> 00:37:12,720
Speaker 1: They're gonna mark this and tie this back to this guy.

537
00:37:13,160 --> 00:37:16,160
Speaker 1: Are the instrumentalities of death, that is, how were these

538
00:37:16,200 --> 00:37:20,879
Speaker 1: individuals killed? And we were hearing a lot about how

539
00:37:20,920 --> 00:37:25,560
Speaker 1: the bodies were essentially dismembered. And with most of these

540
00:37:25,560 --> 00:37:29,640
Speaker 1: people that dismember bodies, they have a specific methodology. This

541
00:37:29,719 --> 00:37:32,920
Speaker 1: is done on a learning curve. Nancy. You have to understand, um,

542
00:37:33,000 --> 00:37:35,920
Speaker 1: this is not something that you just automatically pick up.

543
00:37:35,960 --> 00:37:39,839
Speaker 1: So in in the earlier cases, he unless he's been

544
00:37:39,840 --> 00:37:42,680
Speaker 1: doing this for a long long time, which may very

545
00:37:42,680 --> 00:37:45,200
Speaker 1: well be the case, there might be other bodies. There's

546
00:37:45,200 --> 00:37:48,360
Speaker 1: a learning curve to learn literally how to dismember a body.

547
00:37:48,400 --> 00:37:53,040
Speaker 1: It's not an easy task. And then the disposal, how

548
00:37:53,040 --> 00:37:56,960
Speaker 1: do you go about disposing bodies. Is there a specific

549
00:37:57,040 --> 00:37:59,640
Speaker 1: methodology in which he is employing in this particular case,

550
00:38:00,080 --> 00:38:02,279
Speaker 1: he's going to what he knows. He's a you know,

551
00:38:02,320 --> 00:38:05,000
Speaker 1: he's a landscap er. Uh. He knows how to use

552
00:38:05,040 --> 00:38:07,680
Speaker 1: garden tools. He knows how to obscure things, how to

553
00:38:08,120 --> 00:38:12,000
Speaker 1: essentially landscape things out of the field of vision. And

554
00:38:12,040 --> 00:38:15,799
Speaker 1: this is going to be key. Another curious thing about this,

555
00:38:15,880 --> 00:38:18,719
Speaker 1: Nancy is I've heard, you know, buried in the yard,

556
00:38:18,760 --> 00:38:22,800
Speaker 1: and that's where thing. But also this guy put body

557
00:38:22,840 --> 00:38:28,120
Speaker 1: parts in planters, which gives me an indication that he,

558
00:38:28,719 --> 00:38:30,640
Speaker 1: you know, he either thought that he was going to

559
00:38:30,760 --> 00:38:35,320
Speaker 1: do their yards forever and ever, or he really didn't

560
00:38:35,640 --> 00:38:38,560
Speaker 1: care that he was gonna get caught. I do gardening.

561
00:38:38,719 --> 00:38:41,320
Speaker 1: You know, I changed the dirt out in my planners. Uh,

562
00:38:41,680 --> 00:38:45,280
Speaker 1: you know, yearly, so you know it's wait a minute,

563
00:38:45,320 --> 00:38:47,399
Speaker 1: wait a minute, you have time to go out there

564
00:38:47,400 --> 00:38:49,960
Speaker 1: and throw out the old dirt. Dirt. Haven't you ever

565
00:38:50,000 --> 00:38:52,759
Speaker 1: heard of planting those things that just reblame over and

566
00:38:52,840 --> 00:38:58,320
Speaker 1: over like they're like green, they don't necessarily have flowers.

567
00:38:58,960 --> 00:39:01,759
Speaker 1: I gotta get into this there, I gotta get into

568
00:39:01,840 --> 00:39:05,960
Speaker 1: the right keep going, so you know you've got body

569
00:39:06,040 --> 00:39:08,759
Speaker 1: parts that are buried in planners, and these things have

570
00:39:08,920 --> 00:39:11,840
Speaker 1: to be maintenanced. And so the idea is that someone

571
00:39:12,280 --> 00:39:14,840
Speaker 1: at some point time is gonna come down the pike

572
00:39:14,920 --> 00:39:18,439
Speaker 1: here and and take that out and find something. It's

573
00:39:18,440 --> 00:39:20,719
Speaker 1: not like a guy goes and chops up a body

574
00:39:20,760 --> 00:39:23,160
Speaker 1: and throws it into a swamp, or you know, even

575
00:39:23,160 --> 00:39:25,640
Speaker 1: buries it in concrete footers and a big building that's

576
00:39:25,680 --> 00:39:28,480
Speaker 1: being being poured. This is kind of curious to me.

577
00:39:29,120 --> 00:39:31,640
Speaker 1: You know. Here's how it all broke open. Right now,

578
00:39:31,960 --> 00:39:35,640
Speaker 1: over thirty properties where MacArthur worked as a landscape artist

579
00:39:35,880 --> 00:39:40,920
Speaker 1: are being inspected by police, including a quote extensive investigation

580
00:39:41,040 --> 00:39:44,799
Speaker 1: at one residence where he used a garage to store

581
00:39:44,880 --> 00:39:49,600
Speaker 1: equipment and flower pots. The digging first started January eighteen,

582
00:39:50,040 --> 00:39:54,320
Speaker 1: the same day Bruce MacArthur was booked. Police issued to

583
00:39:54,360 --> 00:39:58,760
Speaker 1: search work to those homeowners, Karen Fraser and husband Ron Smith,

584
00:39:59,200 --> 00:40:03,960
Speaker 1: who allowed their quote helpful neighbor to store landscaping tools

585
00:40:03,960 --> 00:40:09,040
Speaker 1: on their property. Amazing the way this whole thing has unfolded,

586
00:40:09,120 --> 00:40:12,759
Speaker 1: and my guess is there's going to be more. One

587
00:40:12,760 --> 00:40:16,000
Speaker 1: other thing about about this case that that I'm finding

588
00:40:16,239 --> 00:40:20,480
Speaker 1: quite interesting is that, um, several of the people that

589
00:40:20,560 --> 00:40:24,520
Speaker 1: have been targeted out of this group of six are

590
00:40:24,560 --> 00:40:28,239
Speaker 1: of Mid Eastern origin, and I think that that's that's

591
00:40:28,320 --> 00:40:32,239
Speaker 1: kind of uh an interesting little aside. There not all

592
00:40:32,320 --> 00:40:35,960
Speaker 1: of them, but a significant number of these gentlemen were

593
00:40:36,040 --> 00:40:42,880
Speaker 1: from the Mid East. Cayenne Salem, Easton Rush Marmoody, Andrew Kinsman,

594
00:40:43,080 --> 00:40:46,640
Speaker 1: Dean Lisswick. Those are some of the names we believe

595
00:40:47,280 --> 00:40:53,120
Speaker 1: are his dead victims. Are there going to be more? Yeah, Nancy,

596
00:40:53,120 --> 00:40:55,759
Speaker 1: I gotta tell you, UH, with this case, one of

597
00:40:55,800 --> 00:40:57,839
Speaker 1: the things, and this all goes to what we look

598
00:40:57,920 --> 00:41:01,319
Speaker 1: for in forensics, uh, kind of our our meat and

599
00:41:01,360 --> 00:41:07,120
Speaker 1: potatoes as we're trying to find connectivity through patterns. And

600
00:41:07,239 --> 00:41:09,919
Speaker 1: right now, what we do know is that we've got

601
00:41:11,000 --> 00:41:16,440
Speaker 1: we've got uh, several gay men that have that have

602
00:41:16,640 --> 00:41:20,920
Speaker 1: vanished obviously out of the Toronto Gay Village as their

603
00:41:21,000 --> 00:41:24,439
Speaker 1: termin it. Uh. And one of the interesting things though,

604
00:41:24,520 --> 00:41:27,640
Speaker 1: is that one of these gentlemen, who was a local

605
00:41:27,680 --> 00:41:32,359
Speaker 1: activist in the gay community, uh, was not like these

606
00:41:32,440 --> 00:41:37,960
Speaker 1: other individuals that were targeted. Uh. This fellow was an activist,

607
00:41:38,480 --> 00:41:41,359
Speaker 1: very vocal and according to his friends, is very very

608
00:41:41,400 --> 00:41:46,640
Speaker 1: protective he uh and and kind of uh kind of

609
00:41:46,640 --> 00:41:49,080
Speaker 1: had a rough side to him, he I don't you

610
00:41:49,160 --> 00:41:51,520
Speaker 1: kind of get the impression from what I'm hearing that

611
00:41:51,840 --> 00:41:56,920
Speaker 1: this fellow didn't abide fools. So, uh, this was obviously

612
00:41:56,960 --> 00:42:00,759
Speaker 1: a mistake. I think that was made by the perpetrator

613
00:42:00,840 --> 00:42:04,759
Speaker 1: in this case. And uh, he's he's left behind a

614
00:42:04,880 --> 00:42:11,520
Speaker 1: specific signature according to his clients. The landscaper Bruce MacArthur quote,

615
00:42:11,680 --> 00:42:15,040
Speaker 1: he went above and beyond what our original agreement was

616
00:42:15,080 --> 00:42:18,759
Speaker 1: to cut the grass. There's a beautiful Christmas arrangement that

617
00:42:18,880 --> 00:42:22,239
Speaker 1: just showed up a weight before Christmas, made by him.

618
00:42:22,680 --> 00:42:26,000
Speaker 1: You have to understand he's so kind, helpful. He helped

619
00:42:26,000 --> 00:42:30,440
Speaker 1: with our charity work doing floral gifts for silent auctions. Well, hello,

620
00:42:30,600 --> 00:42:35,760
Speaker 1: he's a serial killer. How can there be too diametrically

621
00:42:35,920 --> 00:42:41,040
Speaker 1: opposed personalities in one body? Dr Brian Russell. I don't

622
00:42:41,040 --> 00:42:43,680
Speaker 1: know if you have ever heard of a serial killer

623
00:42:43,800 --> 00:42:48,400
Speaker 1: named David Most, but yes, this guy reminds me of

624
00:42:48,560 --> 00:42:53,560
Speaker 1: Most in this way. Mosta, by the way, committed suicide

625
00:42:53,719 --> 00:42:56,880
Speaker 1: in prison, and before he committed suicide, he wrote a

626
00:42:56,920 --> 00:42:59,600
Speaker 1: memoir where he talked about what he was thinking when

627
00:42:59,600 --> 00:43:03,759
Speaker 1: he did his killings. And I received part of that

628
00:43:03,840 --> 00:43:07,400
Speaker 1: memoir from a distant relative of his and had a

629
00:43:07,480 --> 00:43:10,600
Speaker 1: chance to read it, and it was fascinating because Moss

630
00:43:10,800 --> 00:43:16,480
Speaker 1: had he was very conflicted about his sexuality and he

631
00:43:17,000 --> 00:43:20,320
Speaker 1: Dr Brian Russell is everything about sex with you know

632
00:43:20,719 --> 00:43:23,360
Speaker 1: you and Dr Bethany Marshall, have you ever seen a

633
00:43:23,400 --> 00:43:28,200
Speaker 1: crime that was not psyto massachistic? Ever? I take that

634
00:43:28,280 --> 00:43:33,319
Speaker 1: silence as enough. He would get into relationships with men

635
00:43:33,840 --> 00:43:38,279
Speaker 1: and then he would get he would become conflicted about

636
00:43:38,280 --> 00:43:40,560
Speaker 1: whether it was wrong or not, and he would get

637
00:43:40,600 --> 00:43:44,040
Speaker 1: angry at the men as if they had, you know,

638
00:43:44,120 --> 00:43:48,040
Speaker 1: somehow caused him to do something wrong, and then he

639
00:43:48,080 --> 00:43:50,959
Speaker 1: would sort of he would get homicidal and he would

640
00:43:51,080 --> 00:43:53,600
Speaker 1: kill them, and then he would find himself needing to

641
00:43:53,680 --> 00:43:57,280
Speaker 1: dispose of the bodies rapidly. And so it's like Joseph

642
00:43:57,400 --> 00:44:00,640
Speaker 1: Morgan said, it's it's uh, you know that the ways

643
00:44:00,680 --> 00:44:03,560
Speaker 1: in which he disposed of these bodies were not necessarily

644
00:44:03,960 --> 00:44:06,440
Speaker 1: you know, brilliant, because they were he put them in

645
00:44:06,480 --> 00:44:09,760
Speaker 1: places that eventually, some of them at least were likely

646
00:44:09,800 --> 00:44:13,319
Speaker 1: to be found, which suggests to me that perhaps there

647
00:44:13,440 --> 00:44:16,560
Speaker 1: was a similar process going on where he would he

648
00:44:16,600 --> 00:44:20,400
Speaker 1: would do something in sort of a uh, you know,

649
00:44:20,600 --> 00:44:24,920
Speaker 1: a sexually charged rage and then can I tell you

650
00:44:24,960 --> 00:44:28,239
Speaker 1: what he said on online? You know he's on multiple,

651
00:44:28,600 --> 00:44:33,640
Speaker 1: multiple dating websites. One quote, this is the Alte serial killer.

652
00:44:34,120 --> 00:44:36,080
Speaker 1: I can be a bit shy until I get to

653
00:44:36,160 --> 00:44:39,919
Speaker 1: know you, but am a romantic at heart. I love

654
00:44:39,960 --> 00:44:44,280
Speaker 1: to cook and enjoy most types of food. Oh okay,

655
00:44:44,320 --> 00:44:46,440
Speaker 1: you know when I put heart in the same sentence

656
00:44:46,480 --> 00:44:50,080
Speaker 1: as his name, I think of him carving your heart out. Well,

657
00:44:50,200 --> 00:44:53,200
Speaker 1: right now, this is what we know. Five people dead

658
00:44:53,760 --> 00:45:00,000
Speaker 1: so far, hacked into pieces, their bodies buried across a huge,

659
00:45:00,040 --> 00:45:04,000
Speaker 1: huge city, in the backyards and on the grounds of

660
00:45:04,200 --> 00:45:09,319
Speaker 1: his lawn care clients. We are waiting for the very

661
00:45:09,440 --> 00:45:13,880
Speaker 1: latest as we dread hearing there are more victims of

662
00:45:14,000 --> 00:45:20,800
Speaker 1: Bruce MacArthur. Nancy Grace crime story signing off goodbye friend,