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Speaker 1: Hey, guys, ready or not, twenty twenty four is here

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Speaker 1: and we here at breaking points, are already thinking of

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Speaker 1: ways we can up our game for this critical election.

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Speaker 2: We rely on our premium subs to expand coverage, upgrade

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Speaker 2: the studio ad staff, give you, guys, the best independent

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Speaker 2: coverage that is possible. If you like what we're all about,

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Speaker 2: it just means the absolute world to have your support.

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Speaker 2: But enough with that, let's get to the show.

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Speaker 3: Good morning everyone.

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Speaker 4: Soccer is still out getting married in India, so I'm

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Speaker 4: here wait for one more day, right, it's just so rude. No,

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Speaker 4: he's excited to come back, Crystal. Thanks for having me

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Speaker 4: once again. Huge though, because we were on a little

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Speaker 4: bit of a break over the Fourth of July. I

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Speaker 4: hope everyone had a great Fourth of July. But lots

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Speaker 4: coming up on today's show.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, for sure, we missed a few of the major

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Speaker 1: Supreme Court decisions, so we'll dig into the remainder of

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Speaker 1: what those rulings were, including one on student debt, so

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Speaker 1: that'll be interesting.

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Speaker 5: In one on.

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Speaker 1: LGBT rights and religious liberty, so we'll get into all

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Speaker 1: of that. Also, there is a whole lot going on

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Speaker 1: in the social media space. So threads the potential Twitter

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Speaker 1: killer from Mark Zuckerberg that just launched, So we'll tell

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Speaker 1: you about that. I actually tried it out, give you

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Speaker 1: a sense of what's going on there. We also had

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Speaker 1: another major ruling a judge, a federal judge actually saying

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Speaker 1: that the Biden administration can no longer flag tweets another

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Speaker 1: social media posts for censorship. So that is very interesting.

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Speaker 1: We'll tell you about that. A lot going on in

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Speaker 1: terms of the whole Disantas Trump wore pretty wild ad

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Speaker 1: that the Santas team put out. They got a lot

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Speaker 1: of reaction looming major strike from ups workers. This could

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Speaker 1: be the largest strike or near the largest strike in

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Speaker 1: American history, so something we definitely want to keep an

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Speaker 1: eye on.

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Speaker 5: There.

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Speaker 1: A bit of a mystery unfolding at the White House

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Speaker 1: as cocaine was found, law enforcement saying we may never know.

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Speaker 5: How what got there.

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Speaker 3: It's going to be like clue.

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Speaker 5: We'll give you those details.

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Speaker 1: Also, we have a great guest in the show to

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Speaker 1: break down what is going on in Israel as they've

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Speaker 1: launched the latest of their deadly raids on a Palestinian town.

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Speaker 1: So we'll tell you about the fallout there. So let's

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Speaker 1: to get to you this morning, but we wanted to

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Speaker 1: start with those Supreme Court rulings the very latest, so

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Speaker 1: to give you a kind of top line scoreboard of

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Speaker 1: some of the major decisions that happened here. We've got

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Speaker 1: some graphics from the New York Times about what some

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Speaker 1: of the key rulings here were and how they broke

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Speaker 1: down partisan lines or whether there was more overall new majority.

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Speaker 1: Let's put the first one up on the screen. This

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Speaker 1: one we did have a chance to talk about with

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Speaker 1: our great panel. Thank you guys so much for the

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Speaker 1: feedback on that. I thought both of those gentlemen really

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Speaker 1: offered a lot of insight and represented their views well.

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Speaker 1: Firmative action the use of race in college admissions struck

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Speaker 1: down six to three, So this was a partisan vote.

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Speaker 1: Let's go ahead and put the next one up on

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Speaker 1: the screen. In terms of rulings, this one we're going

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Speaker 1: to get into more so. President Biden's student loan debt

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Speaker 1: cancellation program also struck down six to three. So again

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Speaker 1: along those ideological or partisan lines. Let's put the next

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Speaker 1: one up on the screen. This is another one we'll

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Speaker 1: talk about today. So it has to do with a

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Speaker 1: creator business owner who was requested maybe to create a

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Speaker 1: website for a gay couple and did not want to

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Speaker 1: do it because she said it violated her beliefs as

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Speaker 1: a Christian. This one also was a partisan decision six

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Speaker 1: to three. And let's put this last one up on

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Speaker 1: the screen. This was an interesting one. You had state

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Speaker 1: legislatures and federal elections.

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Speaker 5: This was the independent state legislature theory.

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Speaker 1: A lot of concerns here that this if the court

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Speaker 1: upheld this idea of the independent state legislature, this could

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Speaker 1: be used next time around if Trump tries to steal

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Speaker 1: the election again, because this was some of the rationale

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Speaker 1: that went into the last attempt to steal the elections.

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Speaker 1: So you had some liberals joining with conservatives here to

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Speaker 1: say no, we're not going in that direction, and also

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Speaker 1: to maintain the power of the judiciary over state and

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Speaker 1: federal elections. So an interesting one there, But let's go

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Speaker 1: and dive into this student debt decision. Put this next

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Speaker 1: element up on the screen that I just mentioned. So

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Speaker 1: as you guys recall, Joe Biden issued an executive order

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Speaker 1: to cancel ten to twenty thousand dollars in student loan

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Speaker 1: debt for people below a certain income threshold. Major Biden initiative.

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Speaker 1: You know, something that was promised on the campaign trail,

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Speaker 1: something that was really pushed for by activists, now struck

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Speaker 1: down six to three along partisan ideological lines. Here, So

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Speaker 1: the details within this piece they talk about how the

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Speaker 1: Court rejected the thinking because the language was not specific enough.

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Speaker 1: You had Chief Justice John Roberts writing for the majority,

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Speaker 1: saying that the court's precedent quote requires that Congress speak

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Speaker 1: clearly before a Department secretary can unilaterally alter large sections

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Speaker 1: of the American economy. The context here is student loan

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Speaker 1: repayments are actually set to begin again at the end

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Speaker 1: of August. That was part of that debt sealing deal

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Speaker 1: that was struck with Kevin McCarthy after having been put

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Speaker 1: on pause during the COVID nineteen pandemic. First payments not

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Speaker 1: due though until October. So at a moment when student

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Speaker 1: loan payments are about to restart, and when obviously you

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Speaker 1: still have this massive amount of debt hanging over many

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Speaker 1: former college and current college students, this plan has been

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Speaker 1: struck down. Emily, the Biden administration has already responded they

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Speaker 1: have a new plan in place. This is kind of

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Speaker 1: the plan, the approach, so to speak, put this up

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Speaker 1: on the screen. So, as I mentioned before, they had

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Speaker 1: chosen to use the Heroes Act, which was this pandemic

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Speaker 1: era legislation. It was always a little perplexing to me

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Speaker 1: that they went in that direction. But as I mentioned before,

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Speaker 1: they thought, all right, since Trump did it, maybe this

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Speaker 1: is the easiest way to sneak one by the court.

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Speaker 1: Now they're saying, all right, we're going to try it again.

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Speaker 5: We're going to use the.

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Speaker 1: Higher Education Act of nineteen sixty five. The language there

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Speaker 1: is a little more clear. The Act says that they

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Speaker 1: can compromise, wave or release student loans, so it's fairly direct.

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Speaker 1: It says the Education Secretary has the authority to do that.

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Speaker 1: The Higher Education Act of nineteen sixty five has.

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Speaker 5: Been used in the past.

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Speaker 1: To cancel some student loan debt, although admittedly not as

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Speaker 1: sweeping a program as what the Biden administration is pushing here.

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Speaker 1: In addition, he has also announced a twelve month grace

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Speaker 1: period to help borrowers who might struggle after payments restart.

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Speaker 1: There's some indication that there are quite a number of

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Speaker 1: student loan debt holders who will have trouble making their payments,

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Speaker 1: So there is a twelve month grace period. However, interest

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Speaker 1: will continue to accrue. It will resume in September, So

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Speaker 1: whether or not you are making payments, that interest is

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Speaker 1: going to continue to mount. And there's another piece of

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Speaker 1: this that I'll get into in a moment that's a

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Speaker 1: little bit complicated, but basically, the bottom line is for

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Speaker 1: this Higher Education Act the new direction to go through,

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Speaker 1: it's going to be a lengthy process that is going

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Speaker 1: to push this out almost certainly beyond twenty twenty four

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Speaker 1: and p on the next election.

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Speaker 4: And that's exactly what Biden seemed to be struggling with.

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Speaker 4: His quote on this was basically, I think think using

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Speaker 4: the Higher Education Act is going to take longer than

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Speaker 4: the original plan. But quote, in my view, it's the

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Speaker 4: best path that.

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Speaker 3: Remains, providing as many borrowers as possible with debt relief.

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Speaker 4: Now, the David Dayan peace that we had from Prospect

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Speaker 4: up on the screen just a moment ago is fascinating

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Speaker 4: because he makes a very persuasive case that this was

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Speaker 4: always the way the Biden administration should have gone. And

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Speaker 4: when you have people whose lives are on the line,

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Speaker 4: and this is something I think conservatives get long get

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Speaker 4: wrong a lot. They don't recognize how consequential the student

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Speaker 4: loans are. They well, people made this decision, and they

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Speaker 4: can deal with the consequences of it. Well, if you

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Speaker 4: want people to buy homes and start families and join

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Speaker 4: the middle class and be members of their communities constructively,

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Speaker 4: you don't want them to be saddled with tens of

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Speaker 4: thousands of dollars of debt just to get their ticket

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Speaker 4: into the middle class. And so this is obviously hugely consequential,

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Speaker 4: and Biden has left these people in the larch for

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Speaker 4: years at this point and will continue to be years

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Speaker 4: in the future. So not only I think is that

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Speaker 4: election date important for Joe Biden, but it's just another

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Speaker 4: indication of how I think silly sometimes this administration has

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Speaker 4: been when approaching these questions.

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Speaker 1: I never understood why they went in the direction of

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Speaker 1: the Heroes Act. Their justification to make the case that

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Speaker 1: they would make is that it would be quicker and

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Speaker 1: that since Trump had used it to justify some student

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Speaker 1: loan debt relief, perhaps the court would look more favorably

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Speaker 1: upon it. I've always thought that was a little bit foolish,

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Speaker 1: because you know, I view the Court as basically like

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Speaker 1: a partisan operation, you know, to the extent that they

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Speaker 1: tries to like balance their decisions, it is because Chief

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Speaker 1: Justice John Roberts is afraid of their getting more win

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Speaker 1: in the sales of something like court packing and you know,

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Speaker 1: completely undermining legitimacy of the court. So I find it's

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Speaker 1: sort of precious when people go in and like analy

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Speaker 1: who was it correctly decided based on the Constitution, Because

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Speaker 1: to me, the idea that they're just calling like legal

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Speaker 1: balls and strikes here is completely farcical. But you know,

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Speaker 1: there's some real questions. I think about how much Biden

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Speaker 1: actually wants the student loan debt to be canceled based

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Speaker 1: on his history, his ideological history. I mean, this is

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Speaker 1: diavingable neoliberal debt cancelation not really something that neoliberals have

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Speaker 1: historically been on board with. He was kind of drag

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Speaker 1: kicking and screaming to this. Only the only reason he

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Speaker 1: made this promise on the campaign trails because he was

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Speaker 1: facing pressure from Bernie Sanders and Elizabeth Warren and others

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Speaker 1: to do something. His plan was always the least of

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Speaker 1: the crew in the twenty twenty primary, but he did

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Speaker 1: make a really clear promise here, and then even once

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Speaker 1: he gets into office, this is something he had the

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Speaker 1: unilateral ability to effectuate.

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Speaker 5: And still drive his feet drag his feet dragged his.

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Speaker 1: Feet really reportedly was very reluctant to undergo any of

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Speaker 1: this debt cancelation. Decides to do it using the Heroes

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Speaker 1: Act for you know, the administration.

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Speaker 5: Justifications that you would give.

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Speaker 1: But even with the direction that they're going in now,

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Speaker 1: David Dayan points us out in his piece, they want

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Speaker 1: to issue it as a rule. And part of the

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Speaker 1: reason why apparently they have to do that is because

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Speaker 1: they want to do all this like complicated means testing

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Speaker 1: and stuff, and so they feel like it may be

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Speaker 1: on stronger legal footing. This is their their justification. If

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Speaker 1: you go through the rule making process, now that requires

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Speaker 1: a public comment period, It requires this like negotiated rule

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Speaker 1: making period. It takes a lot of time. There is

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Speaker 1: another way they could do it as an order, but

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Speaker 1: it would be faster, but perhaps on less solid legal footing.

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Speaker 1: Is the analysis now, Again, I think it's sort of

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Speaker 1: silly to really imagine that the Supreme Court is just

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Speaker 1: looking at this and calling you balls and strikes and

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Speaker 1: analyze oh, this is on stronger legal footing, and this

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Speaker 1: is on weaker ground. So in my opinion, they should

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Speaker 1: push the you know, push the envelope issue and order

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Speaker 1: cancel the debt as quickly as they possibly can. But

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Speaker 1: if you want to be a little bit conspiratorial, or

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Speaker 1: you know, consider Peter I guess a little bit cynical

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Speaker 1: about this, you could also say, well, it's kind of

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Speaker 1: convenient for them that this pushes it down past the

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Speaker 1: next election, when this is a really critical issue for

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Speaker 1: so many voters, very motivating for so many voters who

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Speaker 1: feel direct, tangible material pressure and possible material benefit from this.

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Speaker 1: So if you have this as a live issue going

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Speaker 1: into the election, you can see how that might be

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Speaker 1: appealing to them politically, above and beyond their rationalizations about oh,

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Speaker 1: this is the best way legally forward.

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Speaker 4: And they can continue to blame the court. They continue

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Speaker 4: to can continue.

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Speaker 3: To say, Joe Biden or I, if you're Joe Biden.

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Speaker 4: Did everything in my power to give you this relief,

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Speaker 4: and yet the Conservative Supreme Court blocked it. So right

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Speaker 4: now what I'm doing is everything else that's in my power.

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Speaker 3: I'm working really hard on it.

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Speaker 4: And you can continue to make that pitch continue to

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Speaker 4: make this issue part of that. Listen, I mean, I'm

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Speaker 4: not I think what depresses me most about all of

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Speaker 4: that is, you know, one of the reasons I oppose

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Speaker 4: categorical relief or relief in ways like this is because

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Speaker 4: the system is a joke. It's I mean, it is

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Speaker 4: the neoliberal idea that you can take you know, that

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Speaker 4: college education is your ticket to the middle class.

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Speaker 3: Everything's going to be okay. That was a lie.

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Speaker 4: It was a lie from our politicians, the entire political class,

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Speaker 4: the media, it was a lie from.

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Speaker 3: The culture for years and years and years.

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Speaker 4: And college education has just gotten more expensive, so there's

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Speaker 4: no incentives to take down the cost of it. And

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Speaker 4: for me, what's really depressing about that is nobody even

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Speaker 4: has the will like not only it's interesting because the

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Speaker 4: Biden administration is sort of halfway approach, like we're not extreme,

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Speaker 4: but we're also you know, not you know, super like

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Speaker 4: we're not that liberal, but we're also going to do

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Speaker 4: stuff for our activist base.

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Speaker 3: We're also listening to Bernie et cetera, et cetera.

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Speaker 4: It's the worst of both worlds, you know, like go

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Speaker 4: all in or go all out. Be honest, with voters

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Speaker 4: say we're not actually going to do this, or yeah,

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Speaker 4: we're going to do it and you're going to live

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Speaker 4: with it, and a lot of people are going to

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Speaker 4: like it, and a lot of people are going to

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Speaker 4: hate it. But this, like split the baby approach by Biden,

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Speaker 4: which he does not just this issue but other issues,

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Speaker 4: is the worst of both worlds because now people's personal livelihoods,

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Speaker 4: their material reality is in the lurch and will continue

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Speaker 4: to be in the lurch for electoral reasons for years to.

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Speaker 1: I think those are really important points, and I think

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Speaker 1: all of that is fair. I mean, the reason I

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Speaker 1: come down in a different place than you do and

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Speaker 1: then that Soccer does on the actual possibility of debt

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Speaker 1: relief is because listen, I would love it if there

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Speaker 1: was broader reform on the table.

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Speaker 5: I would love it if there was free public college

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Speaker 5: and trade school on the table. There's not.

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Speaker 1: So at least if there's you know, a little bit

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Speaker 1: of relief that's on the table for a lot of people,

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Speaker 1: that would make huge different in their difference in their lives.

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Speaker 1: I'm like, all right, let's do that, because that's the

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Speaker 1: best we can get right now. But the big picture

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Speaker 1: here is a story of institutional failure. I mean, you

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Speaker 1: have a White House that sort of bungled the direction

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Speaker 1: of this from the beginning, that dragged their feet, that

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Speaker 1: could have provided a lot more relief. So you've got that,

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Speaker 1: You've got Congress is really the place where you should

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Speaker 1: have broader legislation to deal with the fact that college

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Speaker 1: education costs continue to skyrocket, that you even have a

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Speaker 1: thing that is student debt, and that it is crushing

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Speaker 1: for multiple generations, sets them back in terms of families,

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Speaker 1: which you know you're talking about marriage today, in terms

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Speaker 1: of being able to buy a house, in terms of

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Speaker 1: being able to start a business and be entrepreneurs if

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Speaker 1: that's the direction that they want to go in. So

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Speaker 1: this absolute crushing level of debt, that's something Congress should

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Speaker 1: be able to deal with. You know, that's the appropriate

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Speaker 1: place to really formulate a comprehensive solution. No one has

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Speaker 1: any expectation that that's coming anytime soon. And then you

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Speaker 1: have a court that has, you know, its own massive

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Speaker 1: corruption issues and total loss of credibility, that is not

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Speaker 1: interested in calling bills and strikes, that is interested in

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Speaker 1: advancing their own ideological agenda. So you just have like

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Speaker 1: every branch of government kind of failures all around, and

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Speaker 1: I think that's the big picture of student loan debt relief.

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Speaker 1: I want to talk about this next decision though, and Amiliana,

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Speaker 1: you have some interesting insight into this one. Gon put

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Speaker 1: this next one up on the screen. This is this

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Speaker 1: case of you know, tension between all right, where does

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Speaker 1: where do religious rights turn into overt discrimination? And this

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Speaker 1: is something that the Court has wrestled with, of course,

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Speaker 1: many times.

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Speaker 5: In its history. You have the Supreme Court.

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Speaker 1: This is the ap headline ruling for a designer who

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Speaker 1: does not want to make wedding websites for gay couples.

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Speaker 5: Let me read you a little bit from this appiece.

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Speaker 1: They see say, in a defeat for gay rights, the

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Speaker 1: Supreme Court's conservative majority, and this was along partisan idy

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Speaker 1: logical lines, ruled on Friday that a Christian graphic artist

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Speaker 1: who wants to design wedding websites can refuse to work

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Speaker 1: with same sex couples. One of the Court's liberal justices

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Speaker 1: wrote in a descent that the decisions effect is to

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Speaker 1: mark gays and lesbians for second class status, and that

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Speaker 1: the decision opens the door to other discrimination. The decision

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Speaker 1: to get into the specific s here suggests that artists, photographers, videographers,

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Speaker 1: and writers are among those who can refuse to offer

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Speaker 1: what the court called expressive services if doing so would

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Speaker 1: run contrary to their beliefs. But that's different from other

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Speaker 1: businesses not engaged in speech and therefore not covered by

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Speaker 1: the first amendments, such as restaurants and hotels. So, Emily,

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Speaker 1: I know you have actually spoken with this designer, so

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Speaker 1: it give us.

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Speaker 5: A little bit of the backstory on this particular case.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, so this is, as a lot of conservatives seen it,

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Speaker 4: an attempt to really write the wrongs the Masterpiece cake shop,

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Speaker 4: you know, the bake, the origin of the bake, the

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Speaker 4: dam cake meme that is so popular now. So Jack

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Speaker 4: Phillips who had a cake shop and said, I will

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Speaker 4: serve absolutely everyone. I'm not going to make a cake

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Speaker 4: for a gay wedding. I'll happily serve gay customers. This

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Speaker 4: is a really similar situation, and it's basically a stress

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Speaker 4: test of the laws that Colorado had in place after

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Speaker 4: Masterpiece and Masterpiece was decided in a way that conservatives

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Speaker 4: weren't entirely happy with. Justice Kennedy wrote the opinion, and

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Speaker 4: it allowed Colorado and states like it to have laws

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Speaker 4: that conservatives still felt, Christian still felt, were allowed the

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Speaker 4: state to sort of infringe on their beliefs. And so

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Speaker 4: Laurie Smith is a website designer. She just like graphic

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Speaker 4: design basically, and because.

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Speaker 3: Of Colorado's law, felt that she.

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Speaker 4: Was going to be in a position where she would

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Speaker 4: have to make or would be forced into the situation

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Speaker 4: where she would have to make wedding websites for gay weddings. Now,

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Speaker 4: this is where it gets interesting because recently, I think

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Speaker 4: it was the Daily Beast dug into the original request

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Speaker 4: that was cited in the lawsuit, and the customer's request

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Speaker 4: basically turns out he was surprised to learn that it

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Speaker 4: had been cited in the filing, the court filing. You know,

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Speaker 4: his request for her to make it was like through

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Speaker 4: the form on a website. Yeah, when you go to

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Speaker 4: somebody's website and you just have to go through the

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Speaker 4: form then you submit it. It wasn't ever, it looks

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Speaker 4: like it wasn't never validated or verified.

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Speaker 3: He says he's not gay.

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Speaker 6: He's married to a for like fifteen years, right, And

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Speaker 6: so there were a lot of laughs about that online

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Speaker 6: and it is quite interesting but it also wasn't the

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Speaker 6: basis for the original lawsuit.

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Speaker 4: This is from the Associated Press. The would be customer's

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Speaker 4: request was not the basis for St. Missile original lawsuit,

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Speaker 4: nor was it cited by the High Court as the

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Speaker 4: reason for ruling in her favor. The Tenth Circuit Court

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Speaker 4: of Appeals, they said that Colorado had a history of

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Speaker 4: past enforcement quote against nearly identical conduct, so masterpiece, and

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Speaker 4: that the state declined to promise that it wouldn't go

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Speaker 4: after Smith, So the state didn't prove that it would

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Speaker 4: not go after her if she violated their law and

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Speaker 4: said I'm not going to make this wedding website for you.

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Speaker 4: So it is funny, but also wasn't really the basis

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Speaker 4: for the lawsuit. And that said, I actually really think

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Speaker 4: this should have been a nine to oh. I think

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Speaker 4: if you flipped a nine zero decision, I think, you know,

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Speaker 4: in a in a saner world, the ACLU would have

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Speaker 4: been all over this. Just in the different in a

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Speaker 4: different direction. I think if you flipped her Laurie Smith

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Speaker 4: into if you turned her into a Muslim, or like

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Speaker 4: in a hypothetical world, or somebody who was like episcopalian

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Speaker 4: supported gay marriage, and was asked by a Christian to

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Speaker 4: do an anti gay marriage cake. I think you would,

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Speaker 4: actually would we would have our sort of ideological blinders

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Speaker 4: off and say, yeah, that, like she's an artist, she's

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Speaker 4: allowed to do what she wants. It's not Michaelangelo obviously

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Speaker 4: creating wedding websites. But I think the left would be

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Speaker 4: pretty defensive of her ability to create expressive websites, et

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Speaker 4: cetera if she weren't Christian.

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Speaker 3: I think that just like kind of changed everybody's.

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Speaker 4: Uh, you know for and I get I get why

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Speaker 4: people are suspicious of that, you know, after in recent history,

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Speaker 4: but at the same time, I really think that they

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Speaker 4: would be defending her ability as an artist to say, no,

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Speaker 4: I don't want to make a website for an anti

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Speaker 4: gay organization, or I don't want to create a website

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Speaker 4: for the event of an anti gay organization. I'll make

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Speaker 4: the people a cake for anything else, or I'll make

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Speaker 4: the people a website for anything else, but not for

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Speaker 4: this anti gay demonstration that they want to do. And

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Speaker 4: that's where I think it probably should have been nine zero.

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Speaker 5: So I also think it should have been nine zero.

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Speaker 1: But in the other day the other direction, because I mean, listen,

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Speaker 1: the bedrock of the civil rights era was the idea

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Speaker 1: that you cannot discriminate against people in terms of public accommodations.

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Speaker 1: And so while I acknowledge that it can be tricky

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Speaker 1: to strike the balance between all right, where does religious

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Speaker 1: liberty end and where does discrimination begin, I think at

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Speaker 1: this point in American history, we've all acknowledged that, you know,

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Speaker 1: discrimination against LGBTQ people is a thing that it should

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Speaker 1: be prevented. This Court has affirmed us multiple times, and

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Speaker 1: so you know, it's they're trying to draw this line

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Speaker 1: of oh, this is expressive, and this is first this

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Speaker 1: is a First Amendment free speech issue. But you know,

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Speaker 1: there are a lot of things that could be theoretically

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Speaker 1: construed as speech, including baking a cake, including making a website,

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Speaker 1: including you know, printing up the programs for the wedding.

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Speaker 1: Any part of that could theoretically be called free speech.

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Speaker 1: And so I think this is much more about just

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Speaker 1: you have an obligation as a business owner to serve

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Speaker 1: the public, and you cannot fall back on your religion

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Speaker 1: as your justification for discrimination. Because listen, the Bible has

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Speaker 1: been used to justify overt discrimination many times in American history.

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Speaker 1: I mean it was used arguments from the Bible were

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Speaker 1: used to say, oh, this is God is.

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Speaker 5: Against interracial marriage.

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Speaker 1: So to me, this is you know, way over the

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Speaker 1: line in terms of where religious freedom lies. But you know,

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Speaker 1: court sees it otherwise, So we will, I'm sure, have

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Speaker 1: additional probably legislation about what exactly the bounds are here.

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Speaker 1: I do think the piece, you know, I hear what

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Speaker 1: you're saying about this, The actual mechanics of how this

439
00:20:58,880 --> 00:21:01,880
Speaker 1: request came to be didn't end up being central.

440
00:21:01,600 --> 00:21:02,320
Speaker 5: To the decision.

441
00:21:02,760 --> 00:21:05,280
Speaker 1: But I do think the fact that number one, she's

442
00:21:05,320 --> 00:21:08,080
Speaker 1: actually never made a wedding website for anyone.

443
00:21:08,400 --> 00:21:09,800
Speaker 5: She's never made one.

444
00:21:10,000 --> 00:21:13,240
Speaker 1: She said, oh I might, I'm thinking about theoretically maybe

445
00:21:13,240 --> 00:21:16,000
Speaker 1: getting into the wedding website business is like okay, And

446
00:21:16,040 --> 00:21:18,400
Speaker 1: then the request itself is fake. I mean, this guy

447
00:21:18,480 --> 00:21:21,680
Speaker 1: did not submit request. He's not gay, he's been married

448
00:21:21,680 --> 00:21:24,840
Speaker 1: for fifteen years, and this is the only request that

449
00:21:24,920 --> 00:21:25,760
Speaker 1: they could cite.

450
00:21:25,800 --> 00:21:27,560
Speaker 5: So, I mean, listen, this is the way that our

451
00:21:27,640 --> 00:21:28,840
Speaker 5: legal process works.

452
00:21:29,520 --> 00:21:32,040
Speaker 1: Activists, you know, have something that they want to test,

453
00:21:32,440 --> 00:21:35,560
Speaker 1: they look for a test case in order to do it.

454
00:21:34,720 --> 00:21:38,240
Speaker 1: It's actually embarrassing and humiliating for the court though, that

455
00:21:38,280 --> 00:21:40,640
Speaker 1: they never even did the basics that this got all

456
00:21:40,680 --> 00:21:43,600
Speaker 1: the way to the Supreme Court without anyone doing the

457
00:21:43,640 --> 00:21:46,919
Speaker 1: basics of checking in on whether this was actually a

458
00:21:46,960 --> 00:21:49,639
Speaker 1: real request or not. So it is embarrassing. And I

459
00:21:49,640 --> 00:21:53,360
Speaker 1: think also if the reality of that had come out,

460
00:21:53,680 --> 00:21:55,479
Speaker 1: I don't know that the case would have gone any differently,

461
00:21:55,560 --> 00:21:57,679
Speaker 1: because again I think this is more ideological than it

462
00:21:57,760 --> 00:22:00,000
Speaker 1: is actually doing you know, any sort of real justice,

463
00:22:00,240 --> 00:22:03,399
Speaker 1: ye legal analysis. But it may have called into questions

464
00:22:03,480 --> 00:22:05,199
Speaker 1: some of the other arguments, It may have put it

465
00:22:05,240 --> 00:22:08,640
Speaker 1: on sort of shakier ground when you have a designer

466
00:22:08,640 --> 00:22:11,520
Speaker 1: who doesn't actually making websites with a request that isn't

467
00:22:11,520 --> 00:22:13,760
Speaker 1: actually a real request, there's you know a lot of

468
00:22:13,800 --> 00:22:15,119
Speaker 1: those pieces that kind of fall apart.

469
00:22:15,200 --> 00:22:18,200
Speaker 4: So she was represented by Alliance Defended Defending Freedom, which

470
00:22:18,240 --> 00:22:22,200
Speaker 4: has worked really closely with Jack Phillips. And my assumption

471
00:22:22,480 --> 00:22:24,240
Speaker 4: is that so this is what's happened with Jack Phillips

472
00:22:24,320 --> 00:22:26,200
Speaker 4: Christian Baker over and over again, that you have people

473
00:22:26,240 --> 00:22:30,400
Speaker 4: on the left coming in and making obscene requests of him,

474
00:22:30,600 --> 00:22:33,560
Speaker 4: and it just like things that I won't even describe here,

475
00:22:33,600 --> 00:22:36,560
Speaker 4: like just obscene requests of him to test the system and.

476
00:22:36,520 --> 00:22:37,320
Speaker 3: To test the law.

477
00:22:37,440 --> 00:22:40,280
Speaker 4: And so I think it's it's really been happening in

478
00:22:40,280 --> 00:22:43,360
Speaker 4: both directions. And my assumption is that, you know, that's

479
00:22:43,520 --> 00:22:46,000
Speaker 4: that's sort of what we all understand is happening with

480
00:22:46,080 --> 00:22:48,920
Speaker 4: these like speech laws in places like Colorado or Washington

481
00:22:49,000 --> 00:22:51,879
Speaker 4: State where everyone's just sort of stressed testing the system

482
00:22:51,920 --> 00:22:53,080
Speaker 4: and seeing where they can come out.

483
00:22:53,119 --> 00:22:55,520
Speaker 3: And I think it was Elena Kagan that said in

484
00:22:55,520 --> 00:22:56,000
Speaker 3: this term.

485
00:22:56,119 --> 00:22:57,880
Speaker 4: I think she was referring to the student debt case,

486
00:22:57,880 --> 00:23:00,199
Speaker 4: but she said, one of the interesting things actually is

487
00:23:00,240 --> 00:23:02,320
Speaker 4: not the way the conservative majority ruled in the case,

488
00:23:02,480 --> 00:23:04,800
Speaker 4: but their decision to take up the case at all.

489
00:23:05,040 --> 00:23:06,760
Speaker 3: And I really think that's worth thinking.

490
00:23:06,840 --> 00:23:09,159
Speaker 4: Yeah, that is true because we've had courts ruled differently

491
00:23:09,160 --> 00:23:11,719
Speaker 4: on affirmative action in recent years and sort of punt

492
00:23:12,280 --> 00:23:14,639
Speaker 4: in different cases, you know, punt on Obamacare in a

493
00:23:14,640 --> 00:23:17,280
Speaker 4: way that was really really displeasing to conservatives, like you know,

494
00:23:17,280 --> 00:23:20,240
Speaker 4: a Chief Justice John Roberts. And so I think actually

495
00:23:20,280 --> 00:23:21,920
Speaker 4: part of what's really interesting about this is that is

496
00:23:21,960 --> 00:23:24,000
Speaker 4: the cases that the Court took up this session.

497
00:23:24,359 --> 00:23:27,439
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think that that is very true. And you know,

498
00:23:27,600 --> 00:23:29,520
Speaker 1: just my last point on this is I really do

499
00:23:29,640 --> 00:23:32,399
Speaker 1: agree with the dissent that this puts gays and lesbians

500
00:23:32,480 --> 00:23:35,320
Speaker 1: on kind of second class footing, because it's not like

501
00:23:35,359 --> 00:23:37,639
Speaker 1: a gay couple that's looking to have a wedding website.

502
00:23:37,680 --> 00:23:40,119
Speaker 1: It's not like they're trying to make some like activist

503
00:23:40,400 --> 00:23:41,399
Speaker 1: ideological point.

504
00:23:41,720 --> 00:23:42,560
Speaker 5: They're just trying to live.

505
00:23:42,480 --> 00:23:46,200
Speaker 1: Their lives, right, and the fact that they are entering

506
00:23:46,240 --> 00:23:51,600
Speaker 1: into a gay marriage makes it political. When you know

507
00:23:51,760 --> 00:23:56,800
Speaker 1: a heterosexual couple that was getting married, it's seen as

508
00:23:56,880 --> 00:23:59,080
Speaker 1: just like normal and non political. Well, these are all

509
00:23:59,119 --> 00:24:01,560
Speaker 1: just people, not trying to be activists, not trying to

510
00:24:01,560 --> 00:24:04,320
Speaker 1: make ideological points, just trying to live their lives. And

511
00:24:04,359 --> 00:24:06,359
Speaker 1: now if you're a gay couple, you've got to sort

512
00:24:06,400 --> 00:24:09,399
Speaker 1: through which vendors are going to be willing to serve you.

513
00:24:09,880 --> 00:24:12,600
Speaker 1: And the Supreme Court has said that that is perfectly

514
00:24:12,600 --> 00:24:14,280
Speaker 1: fine and that can be the law of the land.

515
00:24:14,560 --> 00:24:17,240
Speaker 4: This is why my one remaining libertarian take on things

516
00:24:17,280 --> 00:24:19,239
Speaker 4: is that I don't think marriage should be sanctioned by

517
00:24:19,240 --> 00:24:25,200
Speaker 4: the government at all. But anyway, a lot, as Chris

518
00:24:25,280 --> 00:24:27,840
Speaker 4: Well mentioned earlier in the show, we have social media

519
00:24:27,880 --> 00:24:30,479
Speaker 4: on the docket today. Speaking of the court, let's talk

520
00:24:30,520 --> 00:24:33,159
Speaker 4: about the social media docket because there was a huge

521
00:24:33,359 --> 00:24:38,159
Speaker 4: ruling actually against the Biden administration when it comes to

522
00:24:38,680 --> 00:24:42,919
Speaker 4: their meddling or their pressure on U. There's pressure on

523
00:24:43,040 --> 00:24:46,720
Speaker 4: these major tech corporations to police speech. So a federal

524
00:24:46,800 --> 00:24:50,600
Speaker 4: judge ruled on Tuesday that they're going to be restricting

525
00:24:50,640 --> 00:24:54,120
Speaker 4: some agencies and officials. This is from reuters in Biden's

526
00:24:54,119 --> 00:24:57,600
Speaker 4: administration from meeting and communicating with social media companies to

527
00:24:57,720 --> 00:25:01,640
Speaker 4: moderate their content. According to to a court file filing,

528
00:25:01,720 --> 00:25:04,239
Speaker 4: the injunction came in response to a lawsuit brought by

529
00:25:04,280 --> 00:25:07,280
Speaker 4: Republican Attorney's General in Louisiana, Mississippi, who alleged that US

530
00:25:07,359 --> 00:25:10,400
Speaker 4: government officials went too far in efforts to encourage social

531
00:25:10,480 --> 00:25:13,480
Speaker 4: media companies to address posts they worried could contribute to

532
00:25:13,600 --> 00:25:16,600
Speaker 4: vaccine hesitancy during the COVID nineteen pandemic or.

533
00:25:16,680 --> 00:25:18,280
Speaker 3: Up end elections.

534
00:25:18,640 --> 00:25:21,199
Speaker 4: Now, the White House has said the Justice Department is

535
00:25:21,240 --> 00:25:23,479
Speaker 4: taking a look at the order and is going to

536
00:25:23,600 --> 00:25:26,200
Speaker 4: evaluate its options. But we actually got reporting just last

537
00:25:26,280 --> 00:25:29,080
Speaker 4: night from the Washington Post that the Biden administration had

538
00:25:29,119 --> 00:25:32,199
Speaker 4: canceled some of its meetings with these companies, which we

539
00:25:32,280 --> 00:25:35,320
Speaker 4: learned from the Twitter files were regular. For instance, you

540
00:25:35,359 --> 00:25:39,080
Speaker 4: regularly had Twitter meeting with the FBI in the lead

541
00:25:39,160 --> 00:25:41,840
Speaker 4: up to the twenty twenty election, so that in and

542
00:25:41,840 --> 00:25:43,480
Speaker 4: of itself is interesting.

543
00:25:43,040 --> 00:25:45,159
Speaker 3: That it's already has some teeth to it.

544
00:25:45,680 --> 00:25:48,760
Speaker 4: But of course this was not met with cheers by

545
00:25:48,880 --> 00:25:51,080
Speaker 4: a lot of people in the corporate press. Let's run

546
00:25:51,200 --> 00:25:54,320
Speaker 4: B two right now. It's a pretty hilarious freakout from

547
00:25:54,359 --> 00:25:56,680
Speaker 4: I think this one's CNN, but it might be MSNBC.

548
00:25:56,840 --> 00:25:57,320
Speaker 3: Take a listen.

549
00:25:57,640 --> 00:25:59,880
Speaker 7: If they find something that you know, they're flagging this post,

550
00:26:00,040 --> 00:26:02,240
Speaker 7: say hey, this, they're not explicitly saying you need to

551
00:26:02,280 --> 00:26:05,320
Speaker 7: take this down. Often there's sort of an implicit implication

552
00:26:05,480 --> 00:26:08,240
Speaker 7: there if saying just you know, bring this to your attention,

553
00:26:08,520 --> 00:26:11,160
Speaker 7: and then the social media company can decide independently whether

554
00:26:11,240 --> 00:26:13,959
Speaker 7: or not that violates their ongoing standards. But I mean,

555
00:26:14,000 --> 00:26:16,240
Speaker 7: it's a really new area and a really complicated one,

556
00:26:16,240 --> 00:26:18,520
Speaker 7: and one that there should be close guardrails on to

557
00:26:18,560 --> 00:26:21,040
Speaker 7: make sure that the government is not overreaching. But the

558
00:26:21,119 --> 00:26:23,840
Speaker 7: idea that the government can't have any communication with these

559
00:26:23,880 --> 00:26:26,360
Speaker 7: social media companies, I don't think it's something as really

560
00:26:26,400 --> 00:26:27,639
Speaker 7: a world that we would want to live in.

561
00:26:28,280 --> 00:26:31,920
Speaker 4: It's not really a world world doesn't it sound nice,

562
00:26:32,200 --> 00:26:34,600
Speaker 4: sort of utopian. At this point, let's put B three

563
00:26:34,680 --> 00:26:36,959
Speaker 4: up on the screen, and this is from rubbiswave over reason.

564
00:26:38,280 --> 00:26:39,600
Speaker 3: This is a great headline.

565
00:26:39,800 --> 00:26:43,320
Speaker 4: The FBI frequently flagged stroke tweets and asked for moderation.

566
00:26:43,520 --> 00:26:45,480
Speaker 3: Again, we know that this is the case.

567
00:26:45,560 --> 00:26:48,199
Speaker 4: And actually what's kind of interesting here is that CNN

568
00:26:48,240 --> 00:26:50,879
Speaker 4: had a similar sort of freak out panel. I genuinely

569
00:26:50,920 --> 00:26:54,239
Speaker 4: don't know if the legal analysts that are overpaid at

570
00:26:54,240 --> 00:26:57,480
Speaker 4: CNN and MSNBC have read stories like this, have like

571
00:26:57,600 --> 00:27:00,880
Speaker 4: truly thoughtfully combed through the Twitter file. One thing that's

572
00:27:01,000 --> 00:27:04,000
Speaker 4: a little bit frightening is that they very very well

573
00:27:04,080 --> 00:27:07,000
Speaker 4: may have and they may actually think, yes, that the

574
00:27:07,040 --> 00:27:09,840
Speaker 4: FBI should be policing jokes on Twitter, should be reporting

575
00:27:09,880 --> 00:27:11,879
Speaker 4: parody accounts, all.

576
00:27:11,720 --> 00:27:12,160
Speaker 3: Of those things.

577
00:27:12,160 --> 00:27:14,159
Speaker 4: I think one of them was like a parody account

578
00:27:14,160 --> 00:27:16,520
Speaker 4: about Joe Biden's niece or granddaughter.

579
00:27:16,680 --> 00:27:19,040
Speaker 3: Yeah, we need it down immediately.

580
00:27:19,080 --> 00:27:21,879
Speaker 4: And the entitlement that the government approached these corporations with

581
00:27:21,920 --> 00:27:24,960
Speaker 4: that like you listen to us, we're bullying you into submission.

582
00:27:25,000 --> 00:27:26,720
Speaker 4: That's part of what the judge is ruling on here

583
00:27:26,760 --> 00:27:30,000
Speaker 4: is like, this is not the appropriate relationship between government

584
00:27:30,160 --> 00:27:34,239
Speaker 4: and these platforms, But I honestly, honestly don't know if

585
00:27:34,240 --> 00:27:37,560
Speaker 4: they actually realize the full extent of the censorship requests

586
00:27:37,600 --> 00:27:40,200
Speaker 4: as laid out there. Like we're talking about jokes, We're

587
00:27:40,240 --> 00:27:42,720
Speaker 4: not talking about matters of national security in every case?

588
00:27:43,040 --> 00:27:45,280
Speaker 4: Are there some legitimate reasons that the White housemen want

589
00:27:45,280 --> 00:27:46,280
Speaker 4: to fly something to Twitter?

590
00:27:46,680 --> 00:27:48,480
Speaker 3: Sure? Is that really what they were doing?

591
00:27:48,680 --> 00:27:52,000
Speaker 5: Absolutely not right? Well, because there's two levels here.

592
00:27:52,000 --> 00:27:56,280
Speaker 1: There's like the amount that the government was communicating with

593
00:27:56,400 --> 00:27:58,760
Speaker 1: Twitter in particular about Also we know, you know, Mark

594
00:27:58,800 --> 00:28:01,840
Speaker 1: Zuckerberg has sad things about their interactions at Facebook as

595
00:28:01,840 --> 00:28:06,440
Speaker 1: well that is very dystopian and should be really unnerving,

596
00:28:06,600 --> 00:28:10,160
Speaker 1: and you know, really came into play during elections during

597
00:28:10,160 --> 00:28:13,719
Speaker 1: the Hunter Biden stuff, also during COVID. You know, these

598
00:28:13,760 --> 00:28:16,680
Speaker 1: social media platforms were trying to try to really sort

599
00:28:16,720 --> 00:28:19,399
Speaker 1: through fact from fiction during a pandemic when you know,

600
00:28:19,480 --> 00:28:21,760
Speaker 1: science was unsettled and there were a lot of things

601
00:28:21,760 --> 00:28:24,399
Speaker 1: that they just blatantly got wrong and ended up with

602
00:28:24,400 --> 00:28:26,399
Speaker 1: egg on their face and really proved themselves to be

603
00:28:26,480 --> 00:28:29,400
Speaker 1: poor at being able to handle that function. So there's

604
00:28:29,440 --> 00:28:32,560
Speaker 1: like the dystopian aspect of it. Then there's also just

605
00:28:32,640 --> 00:28:35,479
Speaker 1: like the farcical embarrassing aspect of it, which is that

606
00:28:35,600 --> 00:28:38,680
Speaker 1: many of the tweets and posts that came out that

607
00:28:38,720 --> 00:28:43,880
Speaker 1: they had flagged were obvious satire from accounts that had

608
00:28:43,920 --> 00:28:49,040
Speaker 1: like three followers and clearly made no difference to anyone whatsoever.

609
00:28:49,360 --> 00:28:53,240
Speaker 1: And it's like, what, like, there's there's real crime, there's

610
00:28:53,280 --> 00:28:56,600
Speaker 1: really actual bad stuff happening in the country and in

611
00:28:56,640 --> 00:28:58,960
Speaker 1: the world, and this is what you people are spending

612
00:28:59,000 --> 00:29:02,320
Speaker 1: your time on. That's just that's embarrassing. So to give

613
00:29:02,360 --> 00:29:05,480
Speaker 1: you one example, the fbid flagged a user named Claire

614
00:29:05,520 --> 00:29:08,880
Speaker 1: Foster who tweeted, quote, I'm a ballot counter in my state.

615
00:29:08,920 --> 00:29:11,280
Speaker 1: If you're not wearing a mask, I'm not counting your vote.

616
00:29:11,320 --> 00:29:14,880
Speaker 1: Hashtag safety first. And also for every negative comment on

617
00:29:14,920 --> 00:29:17,200
Speaker 1: this post, I'm adding another vote for the Democrats.

618
00:29:17,840 --> 00:29:18,800
Speaker 5: Obvious satire.

619
00:29:18,960 --> 00:29:22,280
Speaker 1: Right, it was an obvious, like maybe potentially lame joke

620
00:29:22,520 --> 00:29:25,040
Speaker 1: that did not even get a lot of interactions. But

621
00:29:25,240 --> 00:29:26,920
Speaker 1: this is the sort of stuff that they were spending

622
00:29:26,920 --> 00:29:28,080
Speaker 1: their time flagging.

623
00:29:28,280 --> 00:29:29,960
Speaker 5: But you know, the more important part.

624
00:29:29,880 --> 00:29:33,200
Speaker 1: Is just the u when the government sends you a request,

625
00:29:33,560 --> 00:29:35,560
Speaker 1: even if they don't it doesn't have the force of.

626
00:29:35,560 --> 00:29:36,400
Speaker 5: Law behind it.

627
00:29:36,840 --> 00:29:40,400
Speaker 1: Obviously, that is very heavy handed and it has obviously

628
00:29:40,480 --> 00:29:43,600
Speaker 1: shaped the type of posts that were allowed on Twitter

629
00:29:43,680 --> 00:29:45,800
Speaker 1: and on other platforms. And Emily, I think your point

630
00:29:45,840 --> 00:29:49,040
Speaker 1: about the fact that many of these so called analysts,

631
00:29:49,120 --> 00:29:51,440
Speaker 1: you know, former like deep staters that they pay now

632
00:29:51,640 --> 00:29:53,760
Speaker 1: see it at an MSBC. I don't think they did

633
00:29:53,800 --> 00:29:56,160
Speaker 1: engage with the Twitter files content, and listen, I had

634
00:29:56,200 --> 00:29:58,440
Speaker 1: some issue with the Twitter Twitter files content as well.

635
00:29:58,520 --> 00:30:01,320
Speaker 1: Obviously Elon was you know, kind of selective about it

636
00:30:01,360 --> 00:30:03,240
Speaker 1: and did not provide like a.

637
00:30:03,200 --> 00:30:04,959
Speaker 5: Full picture of everything that was going on.

638
00:30:05,080 --> 00:30:07,840
Speaker 1: All of that transparency into the previous regime has not

639
00:30:07,920 --> 00:30:09,440
Speaker 1: continued into the current regime.

640
00:30:09,560 --> 00:30:11,840
Speaker 5: I think is probably the biggest critique of all of it.

641
00:30:12,120 --> 00:30:16,480
Speaker 1: But there were some real revelations there that were actually important,

642
00:30:16,880 --> 00:30:20,880
Speaker 1: and the fact that the mainstream press just completely ignored

643
00:30:20,920 --> 00:30:24,320
Speaker 1: it means that, you know, they're ignorant of it, and

644
00:30:24,440 --> 00:30:27,680
Speaker 1: their audience is also ignorant of it. I also think

645
00:30:27,720 --> 00:30:30,400
Speaker 1: you can see in the reaction here the way that

646
00:30:30,600 --> 00:30:34,160
Speaker 1: so much of the public discourse is just completely rotted

647
00:30:34,160 --> 00:30:37,600
Speaker 1: by partisanship. If this had been during the Bush era,

648
00:30:37,840 --> 00:30:40,880
Speaker 1: you would have had Democrats cheering on this decision, and

649
00:30:40,920 --> 00:30:43,320
Speaker 1: you would have had Republicans lamenting it and saying this

650
00:30:43,360 --> 00:30:45,040
Speaker 1: isn't the world we want to live in, and national

651
00:30:45,040 --> 00:30:45,760
Speaker 1: security et.

652
00:30:45,680 --> 00:30:46,640
Speaker 5: Cetera, et cetera, et cetera.

653
00:30:47,040 --> 00:30:50,040
Speaker 1: Since it's the Biden era, you have the total reverse

654
00:30:50,840 --> 00:30:54,520
Speaker 1: reverse reaction where Republicans cheer it and Democrats are wringing

655
00:30:54,520 --> 00:30:54,880
Speaker 1: their hands.

656
00:30:54,920 --> 00:30:56,120
Speaker 5: They're very concerned about it.

657
00:30:56,360 --> 00:30:58,880
Speaker 1: And this all does really go back to the you know,

658
00:30:59,000 --> 00:31:03,200
Speaker 1: Patriot Act and the type of surveillance that became mainstream

659
00:31:03,320 --> 00:31:07,960
Speaker 1: during the War on Terror era. So in any case,

660
00:31:08,400 --> 00:31:11,080
Speaker 1: bottom line is you should have a consistent principle here.

661
00:31:11,320 --> 00:31:13,920
Speaker 1: If you are concerned about freedom of speech, if you're

662
00:31:13,920 --> 00:31:16,680
Speaker 1: concerned about the First Amendment, this is a win for

663
00:31:16,760 --> 00:31:19,840
Speaker 1: all of those things and hopefully will stand and push

664
00:31:19,880 --> 00:31:22,800
Speaker 1: back on the government's ability to use a heavy hand

665
00:31:22,800 --> 00:31:27,040
Speaker 1: to censor things that have no business whatsoever being censored, flagged.

666
00:31:26,760 --> 00:31:27,280
Speaker 5: Monitored, etc.

667
00:31:27,600 --> 00:31:28,560
Speaker 4: And I was gonna say, I mean, one of the

668
00:31:28,600 --> 00:31:31,200
Speaker 4: best examples, here's the lab leak, the conversation about the

669
00:31:31,280 --> 00:31:33,920
Speaker 4: lab leak, that people in our government, in our federal

670
00:31:33,960 --> 00:31:36,720
Speaker 4: government were using their power to talk to these social

671
00:31:36,800 --> 00:31:40,000
Speaker 4: media companies, the Hunter Biden laptop story, all of these things,

672
00:31:40,040 --> 00:31:42,960
Speaker 4: they were exerting their power, wielding it over these tech

673
00:31:43,000 --> 00:31:46,760
Speaker 4: companies that have proven they have gone from conspiracy theories

674
00:31:46,960 --> 00:31:51,800
Speaker 4: so called conspiracy theories, to basically being substantiated by a

675
00:31:51,800 --> 00:31:54,040
Speaker 4: lot of facts, a lot of reporting. And that's important

676
00:31:54,080 --> 00:31:56,000
Speaker 4: because we have to be able to have those conversations

677
00:31:56,000 --> 00:31:58,840
Speaker 4: to get to the truth. Something may sound shady, it

678
00:31:58,880 --> 00:32:01,320
Speaker 4: may sound like a conspiracy theory, and it may well

679
00:32:01,360 --> 00:32:03,680
Speaker 4: turn out to be true, especially if people in power

680
00:32:03,720 --> 00:32:06,040
Speaker 4: are telling you look over there like this is no,

681
00:32:06,520 --> 00:32:08,680
Speaker 4: this really isn't real, And I just want to read

682
00:32:08,720 --> 00:32:11,320
Speaker 4: from Matt Tayibi. He had a really good article about

683
00:32:11,320 --> 00:32:14,000
Speaker 4: this in Racket, obviously because he was doing a lot

684
00:32:14,000 --> 00:32:18,240
Speaker 4: of the Twitter FILEWS work. He said basically that the investigation,

685
00:32:18,280 --> 00:32:20,800
Speaker 4: which was led by these two Republican Attorneys General Jeff

686
00:32:20,880 --> 00:32:24,360
Speaker 4: Landry and Andrew Bailey, produced documents showing overt government requests

687
00:32:24,360 --> 00:32:27,120
Speaker 4: to censor people like RFK Junior, a White House official

688
00:32:27,160 --> 00:32:29,960
Speaker 4: expressing frustration of Facebook they weren't removing bad information from

689
00:32:30,000 --> 00:32:32,200
Speaker 4: the search and emails in which a Facebook official please

690
00:32:32,240 --> 00:32:34,840
Speaker 4: with the White House to understand that they're already quote

691
00:32:34,840 --> 00:32:38,240
Speaker 4: reducing the virality of often true content that might promote

692
00:32:38,320 --> 00:32:43,280
Speaker 4: vaccine hesitancy, among many other things. So again, just some

693
00:32:43,360 --> 00:32:44,960
Speaker 4: of this stuff. It doesn't even have to be a

694
00:32:45,000 --> 00:32:47,440
Speaker 4: partisan issue. It's just that like, if we can't have

695
00:32:47,480 --> 00:32:49,440
Speaker 4: these conversations, we're never going to get to the truth,

696
00:32:49,560 --> 00:32:51,440
Speaker 4: and people in power will have a monopoly on what

697
00:32:51,480 --> 00:32:54,000
Speaker 4: we believe is true and what we believe is not true.

698
00:32:54,120 --> 00:32:55,400
Speaker 3: That said, there is.

699
00:32:55,400 --> 00:32:59,000
Speaker 4: A new platform that everyone is clamoring for.

700
00:33:00,160 --> 00:33:01,200
Speaker 3: Just so excited about this.

701
00:33:01,280 --> 00:33:04,800
Speaker 1: Got a new oligarchic run Twitter competitor that we can

702
00:33:04,800 --> 00:33:05,840
Speaker 1: get on board with.

703
00:33:05,880 --> 00:33:07,960
Speaker 5: Guys, that's right, get excited.

704
00:33:08,080 --> 00:33:12,320
Speaker 3: There's more. Okay, so let's go to befour here. This

705
00:33:12,480 --> 00:33:13,840
Speaker 3: is from the Guardian.

706
00:33:15,200 --> 00:33:18,800
Speaker 4: You know, it's it's worth noting the cage match is

707
00:33:18,840 --> 00:33:21,400
Speaker 4: probably canceled, but as the Guardian says, quote, the real

708
00:33:21,400 --> 00:33:23,680
Speaker 4: battle between the two billionaires will begin on Thursday when

709
00:33:23,720 --> 00:33:27,400
Speaker 4: the soccer Perglan just threads his company's Twitter competitor.

710
00:33:27,480 --> 00:33:27,600
Speaker 7: Now.

711
00:33:27,680 --> 00:33:30,680
Speaker 4: Crystal and I both jumped on threads last night.

712
00:33:30,960 --> 00:33:34,480
Speaker 3: Pretty impressed with it. Aesthetically is good, Yeah, it looks good.

713
00:33:34,800 --> 00:33:35,480
Speaker 3: It looks good.

714
00:33:36,000 --> 00:33:40,320
Speaker 4: Michael Schellenberger actually already was reporting this morning that people

715
00:33:40,880 --> 00:33:45,040
Speaker 4: conservative activist type posters are getting red flag warnings or

716
00:33:45,080 --> 00:33:47,640
Speaker 4: people who try to follow them are getting red flag

717
00:33:47,640 --> 00:33:50,360
Speaker 4: warnings that could be I'm not ready to say that

718
00:33:50,400 --> 00:33:52,960
Speaker 4: they are, but they could be, you know, sort of

719
00:33:53,000 --> 00:33:56,040
Speaker 4: being applied with a double standard conservative versus liberals, saying,

720
00:33:56,080 --> 00:33:58,040
Speaker 4: are you sure you want to follow this this account,

721
00:33:58,040 --> 00:33:59,840
Speaker 4: they've posted a lot of disinformation.

722
00:34:00,920 --> 00:34:02,400
Speaker 3: Yeah, And remember.

723
00:34:02,160 --> 00:34:04,880
Speaker 4: Zuckerberg obviously has talked a big game about free speech

724
00:34:04,880 --> 00:34:08,160
Speaker 4: in the past and has not Sometimes he's reflective about

725
00:34:08,160 --> 00:34:09,800
Speaker 4: it after the fact, but he has not always followed

726
00:34:09,800 --> 00:34:11,719
Speaker 4: through on that. Hunter By and Laptop is a great

727
00:34:11,760 --> 00:34:15,319
Speaker 4: example of that. So again, there's a lot of reasons

728
00:34:15,360 --> 00:34:19,000
Speaker 4: to be suspicious about this, but Zuckerberg is coming in

729
00:34:19,160 --> 00:34:21,080
Speaker 4: hard and saying, you know, a lot of people are

730
00:34:21,120 --> 00:34:25,319
Speaker 4: really frustrated with Elon's version of Twitter. Twitter is a

731
00:34:25,400 --> 00:34:27,840
Speaker 4: hub for very powerful people, a lot of very powerful

732
00:34:27,880 --> 00:34:31,160
Speaker 4: liberal people who are extremely frustrated with the situation, and

733
00:34:31,200 --> 00:34:35,360
Speaker 4: they've been courting influencers like mega mega popular celebrities, saying,

734
00:34:35,480 --> 00:34:37,719
Speaker 4: if we get you over here and we integrate it

735
00:34:37,719 --> 00:34:39,440
Speaker 4: with Instagram, you know, we're not asking you do on

736
00:34:39,560 --> 00:34:42,719
Speaker 4: something new like blue Sky or something totally foreign to

737
00:34:42,760 --> 00:34:45,040
Speaker 4: you that you have to like download create an account,

738
00:34:45,040 --> 00:34:46,879
Speaker 4: but it's just all of your followers are to be there.

739
00:34:47,040 --> 00:34:48,920
Speaker 4: You can already follow the people that you're following.

740
00:34:49,680 --> 00:34:50,320
Speaker 3: Can it work?

741
00:34:50,960 --> 00:34:54,600
Speaker 4: I would say probably it can, like actually monk some

742
00:34:54,640 --> 00:34:55,880
Speaker 4: competition on Twitter.

743
00:34:56,160 --> 00:34:58,040
Speaker 5: Yeah, I think you might be right about that.

744
00:34:58,080 --> 00:34:59,879
Speaker 1: I mean, I'm kind of a boomer at this point

745
00:35:00,080 --> 00:35:02,440
Speaker 1: terms of my social media uptick, Like I'm really not

746
00:35:02,560 --> 00:35:04,440
Speaker 1: ready to learn a whole new.

747
00:35:04,360 --> 00:35:07,640
Speaker 5: Platform TikTok or what I like. I'm old at this point.

748
00:35:08,160 --> 00:35:10,920
Speaker 1: But I was able to All you do is you

749
00:35:10,960 --> 00:35:13,640
Speaker 1: download the app if you're already on Instagram. I didn't

750
00:35:13,640 --> 00:35:16,360
Speaker 1: even have to remember my password for it to like integrate.

751
00:35:16,360 --> 00:35:17,400
Speaker 3: It was just like is this you?

752
00:35:17,480 --> 00:35:19,200
Speaker 1: And I was like yeah, And then it asked you

753
00:35:19,239 --> 00:35:21,040
Speaker 1: if you want to follow the same people you're following

754
00:35:21,080 --> 00:35:24,240
Speaker 1: on Instagram? Said yes, and then you're off to the races.

755
00:35:24,320 --> 00:35:27,279
Speaker 1: It looks exactly like Twitter, you know. I mean, it's

756
00:35:27,360 --> 00:35:30,000
Speaker 1: just it's a total carbon copy of Twitter, basically. And

757
00:35:30,840 --> 00:35:33,759
Speaker 1: I think the reason that I feel like this has

758
00:35:33,840 --> 00:35:37,959
Speaker 1: more of a shot than other efforts is just because, look,

759
00:35:38,160 --> 00:35:43,360
Speaker 1: meta is huge, way more users on Instagram and Facebook

760
00:35:43,440 --> 00:35:43,960
Speaker 1: than there are on.

761
00:35:44,000 --> 00:35:46,320
Speaker 5: Twitter, way more orders of magnitude.

762
00:35:46,360 --> 00:35:48,839
Speaker 1: More so, the fact that it's so easy for people

763
00:35:48,880 --> 00:35:51,400
Speaker 1: that are already there to pick it up and that

764
00:35:51,480 --> 00:35:54,279
Speaker 1: they seem to have been pretty strategic about making sure

765
00:35:54,320 --> 00:35:58,000
Speaker 1: some of those big influencers, not even like political people,

766
00:35:58,040 --> 00:35:59,279
Speaker 1: but you know I jumped on there and I saw

767
00:35:59,320 --> 00:36:02,960
Speaker 1: Shack on there, threading or whatever. It shows you they

768
00:36:03,040 --> 00:36:06,480
Speaker 1: put some strategic savvy thought into this, because the whole

769
00:36:06,520 --> 00:36:08,960
Speaker 1: thing with the social media network is that you need

770
00:36:09,000 --> 00:36:10,840
Speaker 1: people to be there. That's why they're kind of natural

771
00:36:10,840 --> 00:36:14,319
Speaker 1: monopolies and why it's been hard to supplant Twitter even

772
00:36:14,360 --> 00:36:16,920
Speaker 1: as you had free speech concerns or you know, concerns

773
00:36:16,920 --> 00:36:19,759
Speaker 1: about Elon's management, et cetera, because it's just like, well,

774
00:36:19,800 --> 00:36:21,560
Speaker 1: this is still where the people are, and I'm still

775
00:36:21,560 --> 00:36:22,879
Speaker 1: getting some benefit out of.

776
00:36:22,800 --> 00:36:24,799
Speaker 5: Seeing breaking news tweets or.

777
00:36:24,960 --> 00:36:28,160
Speaker 1: You know, elite journalists or whoever the you know, political

778
00:36:28,200 --> 00:36:31,400
Speaker 1: influencers that you find interesting. That's where they are, so

779
00:36:31,440 --> 00:36:34,320
Speaker 1: I'm still getting that benefit. I mean, the other reason

780
00:36:34,360 --> 00:36:38,080
Speaker 1: that this might succeed is because Twitter didn't have a

781
00:36:38,080 --> 00:36:39,279
Speaker 1: good last week.

782
00:36:39,320 --> 00:36:40,839
Speaker 5: Let's put this up on the screen. You guys might

783
00:36:40,840 --> 00:36:41,319
Speaker 5: know about this.

784
00:36:41,360 --> 00:36:44,319
Speaker 1: I mean, first there was a shut down, like it

785
00:36:44,360 --> 00:36:46,920
Speaker 1: was not working at all, and then this is the

786
00:36:46,920 --> 00:36:49,560
Speaker 1: headline here is Elon Musk tries forcing Twitter users to

787
00:36:49,680 --> 00:36:53,279
Speaker 1: use less Twitter, and then people were getting these error

788
00:36:53,360 --> 00:36:56,120
Speaker 1: messages that their rate limit had been exceeded, and they

789
00:36:56,120 --> 00:36:58,200
Speaker 1: were like, what the hell's going on here? And then

790
00:36:58,239 --> 00:37:01,080
Speaker 1: Elon tweeted that a parent currently they had put in

791
00:37:01,120 --> 00:37:04,160
Speaker 1: these hard limits of you couldn't view not tweet, you

792
00:37:04,160 --> 00:37:08,560
Speaker 1: couldn't view more than six hundred tweets unless you pay

793
00:37:08,600 --> 00:37:10,200
Speaker 1: for the blue check mark, and then it was like

794
00:37:10,239 --> 00:37:12,959
Speaker 1: six thousand, and then they up the limit a bit.

795
00:37:13,400 --> 00:37:17,520
Speaker 1: But this Twitter is really run Most of the content

796
00:37:17,640 --> 00:37:22,279
Speaker 1: is created by this small percentage of power users, and

797
00:37:22,360 --> 00:37:25,840
Speaker 1: so you're effectively cutting them off in terms of revenue.

798
00:37:25,880 --> 00:37:28,800
Speaker 5: And this is the total opposite.

799
00:37:28,280 --> 00:37:31,600
Speaker 1: Direction of what every social media company wants to go in,

800
00:37:31,760 --> 00:37:35,080
Speaker 1: because the whole thing is the money comes for advertisers,

801
00:37:35,120 --> 00:37:37,040
Speaker 1: and for them to be able to serve their ads,

802
00:37:37,080 --> 00:37:39,880
Speaker 1: you have to be on the platform. So every social

803
00:37:39,920 --> 00:37:42,680
Speaker 1: media company, their whole goal is to keep you locked

804
00:37:42,680 --> 00:37:45,759
Speaker 1: in on their platforms, scrolling endlessly. That's the whole goal.

805
00:37:46,040 --> 00:37:46,960
Speaker 1: Is that good for us?

806
00:37:47,200 --> 00:37:47,359
Speaker 3: No?

807
00:37:47,560 --> 00:37:48,920
Speaker 5: But is that the business model?

808
00:37:49,120 --> 00:37:49,359
Speaker 3: Yes?

809
00:37:49,960 --> 00:37:52,600
Speaker 1: And so Elon and there's already a lot of reporting

810
00:37:52,640 --> 00:37:54,560
Speaker 1: about how their revenues are way down, et cetera, et

811
00:37:54,600 --> 00:37:57,480
Speaker 1: cetera for whatever reason. And there's a lot of speculation

812
00:37:57,640 --> 00:38:00,680
Speaker 1: about the real reason why these were limits were put

813
00:38:00,719 --> 00:38:03,040
Speaker 1: into place. Maybe didn't pay a server bill, or they

814
00:38:03,080 --> 00:38:05,799
Speaker 1: were having tech issues or whatever the actual reason was.

815
00:38:06,440 --> 00:38:09,400
Speaker 1: This is not a good direction to go in in

816
00:38:09,520 --> 00:38:12,560
Speaker 1: terms of the business health of the site. And for

817
00:38:12,640 --> 00:38:14,959
Speaker 1: people who you know, want to be able to scroll

818
00:38:15,000 --> 00:38:17,640
Speaker 1: Twitter and want to use it for you know, like

819
00:38:17,760 --> 00:38:21,120
Speaker 1: us use it for work, et cetera, this is.

820
00:38:20,840 --> 00:38:23,240
Speaker 5: This really hobbles the site.

821
00:38:23,280 --> 00:38:25,920
Speaker 1: It makes it a lot less useful for those power

822
00:38:26,000 --> 00:38:28,719
Speaker 1: users who are again are like the core of the

823
00:38:28,760 --> 00:38:31,240
Speaker 1: content creation and what makes this that useful and valuable.

824
00:38:31,320 --> 00:38:34,000
Speaker 4: Yeah, that's a completely like one of the things to

825
00:38:34,040 --> 00:38:36,319
Speaker 4: remember about Twitter is that not only is its user

826
00:38:36,360 --> 00:38:40,040
Speaker 4: base dwarfed by basically like by by Facebook and then

827
00:38:40,080 --> 00:38:44,280
Speaker 4: Facebook's Instagram and TikTok et cetera, et cetera, the vast

828
00:38:44,280 --> 00:38:48,399
Speaker 4: majority of daily users are a minority even of people

829
00:38:48,440 --> 00:38:50,080
Speaker 4: who use the platform. So if you're one of the

830
00:38:50,080 --> 00:38:52,800
Speaker 4: people that's on Twitter every day, you're in a small

831
00:38:52,840 --> 00:38:56,240
Speaker 4: minority of actually even people that have an account on Twitter,

832
00:38:56,360 --> 00:38:59,239
Speaker 4: let alone a small minority of the American population. And

833
00:38:59,320 --> 00:39:01,799
Speaker 4: so for that purpose, like this is actually pretty bad

834
00:39:01,840 --> 00:39:04,200
Speaker 4: timing for Elon Musk, right, when you have a competitor

835
00:39:04,239 --> 00:39:07,239
Speaker 4: that's serious popping up. And by the way, let's yes,

836
00:39:07,719 --> 00:39:10,360
Speaker 4: it's if we're going from a monopoly to a duopoly

837
00:39:11,239 --> 00:39:14,720
Speaker 4: by you know, one, from one censorious oligarch to another.

838
00:39:15,360 --> 00:39:16,080
Speaker 3: You know that.

839
00:39:16,920 --> 00:39:19,000
Speaker 4: I guess that's that's how low the bar is for

840
00:39:19,120 --> 00:39:22,480
Speaker 4: celebration at this point, that there's some measure of competition

841
00:39:22,560 --> 00:39:25,160
Speaker 4: on one platform to be better, on another platform to

842
00:39:25,160 --> 00:39:25,560
Speaker 4: be better.

843
00:39:26,200 --> 00:39:28,000
Speaker 3: But you know, it's it's the world that we live in.

844
00:39:28,400 --> 00:39:31,760
Speaker 4: Musk says that this is a quote temporary emergency measure,

845
00:39:31,880 --> 00:39:34,719
Speaker 4: and it's aimed at getting rid of data pillaging by

846
00:39:34,840 --> 00:39:37,959
Speaker 4: quote several hundred organizations who were quote scraping Twitter data

847
00:39:38,040 --> 00:39:40,640
Speaker 4: extremely aggressively to the point where it was affecting the

848
00:39:40,680 --> 00:39:44,959
Speaker 4: real user experience. I actually don't have a good idea

849
00:39:44,960 --> 00:39:46,920
Speaker 4: of how it was affecting the real user experience in

850
00:39:46,960 --> 00:39:50,240
Speaker 4: a way that is quite as conspicuous as the blocks

851
00:39:50,600 --> 00:39:53,319
Speaker 4: the content limits for people who you know are scrolling

852
00:39:53,360 --> 00:39:56,600
Speaker 4: didn't pay. You can't even go down their own profiles

853
00:39:56,640 --> 00:40:00,680
Speaker 4: and look at their own property, essentially their own thought tweets,

854
00:40:00,760 --> 00:40:02,799
Speaker 4: because they've exceeded the daily limit.

855
00:40:02,840 --> 00:40:04,279
Speaker 3: And there's nothing you can do about that.

856
00:40:04,400 --> 00:40:07,200
Speaker 4: So I think it's genuinely really bad timing for Elon

857
00:40:07,320 --> 00:40:11,280
Speaker 4: Musk that Zuckerberg comes in with his competition, and Musk

858
00:40:11,320 --> 00:40:14,680
Speaker 4: has been doing this sort of startup atmosphere. He's been

859
00:40:14,719 --> 00:40:16,920
Speaker 4: like generating the startup atmosphere at Twitter, where it's like,

860
00:40:16,920 --> 00:40:19,680
Speaker 4: we're going to experiment with things, We're going to try

861
00:40:19,680 --> 00:40:22,560
Speaker 4: to address some of the stomach problems in Silicon Valley

862
00:40:22,560 --> 00:40:26,319
Speaker 4: that made this platform unappealing, and that just drove this

863
00:40:26,360 --> 00:40:28,720
Speaker 4: platform to a place where it was so much smaller

864
00:40:28,719 --> 00:40:33,480
Speaker 4: than all the others. But at a certain point, you

865
00:40:33,520 --> 00:40:35,560
Speaker 4: can't say, well, it's going to take another year, it's

866
00:40:35,560 --> 00:40:37,480
Speaker 4: going to take another two years. When you're a year in,

867
00:40:37,800 --> 00:40:41,080
Speaker 4: you have to actually have really, really conspicuously improved the

868
00:40:41,160 --> 00:40:43,279
Speaker 4: user experience, and you have to be able to put

869
00:40:43,320 --> 00:40:45,959
Speaker 4: your you have to be able to walk the walk

870
00:40:46,000 --> 00:40:48,400
Speaker 4: and say that the product has genuinely been transformed. And

871
00:40:48,440 --> 00:40:50,839
Speaker 4: I think he's coming up really closely on that sort

872
00:40:50,840 --> 00:40:52,920
Speaker 4: of deadline or de facto deadline with a.

873
00:40:52,920 --> 00:40:56,520
Speaker 1: Public Yeah, and obviously with threads launching like the sharks

874
00:40:56,520 --> 00:41:00,479
Speaker 1: are circling, you know, and there's clear weakness to explore here,

875
00:41:00,920 --> 00:41:03,960
Speaker 1: and you know, also, it just bears repeating that all

876
00:41:04,000 --> 00:41:06,680
Speaker 1: the promises of this is going to be a free

877
00:41:06,680 --> 00:41:09,680
Speaker 1: speech platform, et cetera, et cetera. I mean, even like

878
00:41:09,760 --> 00:41:12,880
Speaker 1: putting these kind of limits on users is kind of

879
00:41:12,920 --> 00:41:16,239
Speaker 1: antithetical to free speech. One of the theories about why

880
00:41:16,280 --> 00:41:18,560
Speaker 1: they put these rate limits in place is another ploy

881
00:41:18,640 --> 00:41:21,800
Speaker 1: to sort of force people into paying for the product.

882
00:41:22,280 --> 00:41:27,479
Speaker 1: But he's also been so antagonistic towards the Twitter user

883
00:41:27,520 --> 00:41:31,320
Speaker 1: base that it makes people out of spite not want

884
00:41:31,560 --> 00:41:34,759
Speaker 1: to pay for the blue check mark and get your

885
00:41:34,840 --> 00:41:38,080
Speaker 1: expanded rate limits and your whatever you know, whatever else

886
00:41:38,160 --> 00:41:42,080
Speaker 1: you get with paying and your primary tweet placement and

887
00:41:42,160 --> 00:41:44,680
Speaker 1: algorithmic benefits, et cetera, which again is also sort of

888
00:41:44,680 --> 00:41:46,040
Speaker 1: contrary to the free speech thing.

889
00:41:46,120 --> 00:41:48,240
Speaker 5: But listen, I can say.

890
00:41:48,080 --> 00:41:51,040
Speaker 1: I'm like celebrating the idea that, oh, we've got another

891
00:41:51,080 --> 00:41:54,040
Speaker 1: potential billionaire savior for us, because, as I've said a

892
00:41:54,080 --> 00:41:57,120
Speaker 1: million times here before, whether it's Elon or Zuckerberger, Jack

893
00:41:57,200 --> 00:42:00,680
Speaker 1: or whoever it is, no billionaire oligarch is going to

894
00:42:00,719 --> 00:42:03,960
Speaker 1: secure our First Amendment rights because that's not what they're

895
00:42:03,960 --> 00:42:04,279
Speaker 1: in for.

896
00:42:04,400 --> 00:42:05,680
Speaker 5: They're in to make money.

897
00:42:05,880 --> 00:42:09,440
Speaker 1: They're in for their own ego or narcissism or whatever.

898
00:42:09,600 --> 00:42:11,560
Speaker 5: It's all about them.

899
00:42:11,520 --> 00:42:15,359
Speaker 1: Their bottom line. It's not really truly about any sort

900
00:42:15,360 --> 00:42:18,840
Speaker 1: of free speech or public town square, et cetera. Many

901
00:42:18,880 --> 00:42:22,160
Speaker 1: of the factors that shaped the current censorship regime at

902
00:42:22,200 --> 00:42:26,080
Speaker 1: places like Meta are also applied to Twitter, because it's

903
00:42:26,120 --> 00:42:30,080
Speaker 1: not really about the laws, it's about the advertisers and

904
00:42:30,200 --> 00:42:32,719
Speaker 1: what they are willing to accept. That's why so many

905
00:42:32,719 --> 00:42:36,319
Speaker 1: of these censorship regimes end up looking basically identical, no

906
00:42:36,400 --> 00:42:39,080
Speaker 1: matter which particular oligarch is in charge.

907
00:42:39,280 --> 00:42:40,399
Speaker 5: But just in terms of.

908
00:42:40,480 --> 00:42:42,800
Speaker 1: A business story, I think it's going to be fascinating

909
00:42:42,800 --> 00:42:44,920
Speaker 1: to watch and see whether Threads can actually make a

910
00:42:44,960 --> 00:42:47,759
Speaker 1: run at it, whether they could actually have a chance

911
00:42:47,800 --> 00:42:51,520
Speaker 1: at reaching parity with or even taking down Twitter, and

912
00:42:51,600 --> 00:42:54,880
Speaker 1: Elon has certainly left himself vulnerable to that kind of challenge.

913
00:42:54,920 --> 00:42:55,719
Speaker 5: I guess that's what I'll say.

914
00:42:55,800 --> 00:42:58,600
Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean, Libertarians have said for years that Twitter's

915
00:42:58,600 --> 00:43:02,319
Speaker 4: competition is Facebook, like these places have competition because there's

916
00:43:02,320 --> 00:43:05,040
Speaker 4: Facebook and Instagram, so Twitter is not a monopoly. This

917
00:43:05,080 --> 00:43:07,960
Speaker 4: proves that completely wrong, by the way, because Twitter is

918
00:43:07,960 --> 00:43:10,879
Speaker 4: a very particular product. People go to Twitter for very

919
00:43:10,880 --> 00:43:13,840
Speaker 4: different reasons than they go to Facebook or Instagram. Or TikTok,

920
00:43:13,920 --> 00:43:17,000
Speaker 4: So it's never been true. That's always been a very

921
00:43:17,080 --> 00:43:20,120
Speaker 4: dubious argument to begin with, but actually competing on the

922
00:43:20,239 --> 00:43:23,080
Speaker 4: very same ground in a way that you know, if

923
00:43:23,080 --> 00:43:26,920
Speaker 4: you have this natural monopoly on people's time, attention, and

924
00:43:27,160 --> 00:43:30,640
Speaker 4: in this very specific way that actually I think we

925
00:43:30,680 --> 00:43:32,719
Speaker 4: could be looking at it at a duopoly if this

926
00:43:32,800 --> 00:43:36,160
Speaker 4: has legs, and I haven't seen any competitor, you know,

927
00:43:36,160 --> 00:43:38,680
Speaker 4: whether it's parlor, whether it's truth social, and truth social.

928
00:43:38,680 --> 00:43:41,600
Speaker 4: By the way, it's hard to find somebody who is

929
00:43:41,719 --> 00:43:45,000
Speaker 4: as popular with a segment of the public than Donald Trump.

930
00:43:45,080 --> 00:43:46,239
Speaker 3: I mean, you can maybe talk about like.

931
00:43:46,200 --> 00:43:49,480
Speaker 4: Michelle Obama and Donald Trump is extremely polarizing, but with

932
00:43:49,520 --> 00:43:52,560
Speaker 4: some like twenty percent of the population the general population,

933
00:43:52,680 --> 00:43:56,520
Speaker 4: he's really popular. And he can't mount a successful competitor

934
00:43:56,520 --> 00:43:59,480
Speaker 4: to Twitter, where you have people like actually coming over

935
00:43:59,520 --> 00:44:02,920
Speaker 4: there and enough numbers to give something legs. It's again

936
00:44:03,040 --> 00:44:05,920
Speaker 4: like between parlor, true social, blue Sky, whatever else is

937
00:44:05,960 --> 00:44:08,200
Speaker 4: trying to do exactly what Twitter does, nobody's been able

938
00:44:08,200 --> 00:44:10,480
Speaker 4: to do it. And so I think again, if if

939
00:44:10,560 --> 00:44:12,480
Speaker 4: Zuckerberg is able to say I'm going to do exactly

940
00:44:12,480 --> 00:44:15,239
Speaker 4: what Twitter does, and we're going to become a doopoly

941
00:44:15,520 --> 00:44:18,400
Speaker 4: that again, like really shows a lot of those arguments

942
00:44:18,480 --> 00:44:19,960
Speaker 4: were wrong from the very the get go.

943
00:44:20,800 --> 00:44:23,400
Speaker 1: Zuckerberg claims that they got ten million sign ups in

944
00:44:23,480 --> 00:44:27,520
Speaker 1: the first seven hours. Obviously that's pretty impressive number. You know,

945
00:44:27,560 --> 00:44:28,880
Speaker 1: it remains to be seeing a lot of those people

946
00:44:29,000 --> 00:44:29,600
Speaker 1: just be like.

947
00:44:29,600 --> 00:44:30,480
Speaker 5: Me, like dry it out.

948
00:44:30,520 --> 00:44:33,240
Speaker 1: See if I you know, I have yet to thread,

949
00:44:33,440 --> 00:44:35,440
Speaker 1: so it's not like I'm an active user. I'm a

950
00:44:35,560 --> 00:44:39,759
Speaker 1: full on lurker at this point. But you know, I

951
00:44:40,120 --> 00:44:45,440
Speaker 1: just think we'll see what happens here. My fear is that,

952
00:44:46,400 --> 00:44:50,080
Speaker 1: like the rest of our media ecosystem, we will increasingly

953
00:44:50,360 --> 00:44:54,839
Speaker 1: separate into ideologically like safe spaces in terms of our

954
00:44:54,840 --> 00:44:57,920
Speaker 1: social media preferences as well. You know, the right will

955
00:44:57,920 --> 00:45:00,560
Speaker 1: stay on Twitter, go to True Social or whatever. The

956
00:45:00,640 --> 00:45:04,120
Speaker 1: left will migrate over to Meta or Blue Sky or

957
00:45:04,280 --> 00:45:08,600
Speaker 1: Masadon or whatever, and we'll have a duopoly, but it'll

958
00:45:08,600 --> 00:45:11,960
Speaker 1: be purely like split down along ideological line, sort of

959
00:45:11,960 --> 00:45:14,320
Speaker 1: the way that the cable news ecosystem or other media

960
00:45:14,360 --> 00:45:17,680
Speaker 1: ecosystems are. That could be the direction that we're going in,

961
00:45:17,840 --> 00:45:19,680
Speaker 1: and I think that would be a loss. And and also

962
00:45:19,800 --> 00:45:23,480
Speaker 1: just in terms of enjoyment of the platform, I mean,

963
00:45:23,560 --> 00:45:27,160
Speaker 1: part of the fun of Twitter is seeing what other

964
00:45:27,280 --> 00:45:31,240
Speaker 1: people who disagree with you say sometimes like they're hilarious stupid,

965
00:45:31,280 --> 00:45:33,880
Speaker 1: hilariously stupid things that they say, like the memes that

966
00:45:33,960 --> 00:45:37,080
Speaker 1: they're sharing and what's going on in their little ideological niche.

967
00:45:37,320 --> 00:45:39,600
Speaker 1: And so if you lose that, I do think it

968
00:45:39,640 --> 00:45:44,239
Speaker 1: takes some of the some of the importance, some of

969
00:45:44,280 --> 00:45:47,040
Speaker 1: the some of the power out of the site, and

970
00:45:47,040 --> 00:45:50,040
Speaker 1: some of what made Twitter a compelling place for some

971
00:45:50,080 --> 00:45:51,719
Speaker 1: subset of the population to start with.

972
00:45:51,960 --> 00:45:56,040
Speaker 4: Yeah, agreed, Well, if you haven't seen this Rhonda Santus video,

973
00:45:56,640 --> 00:46:01,040
Speaker 4: you're really missing out. We're going to talk about developments

974
00:46:01,040 --> 00:46:03,160
Speaker 4: in twenty twenty four. Fourth of July weekend is always

975
00:46:03,200 --> 00:46:07,279
Speaker 4: a big weekend for presidential candidates, and it's in general, yes,

976
00:46:07,360 --> 00:46:10,640
Speaker 4: lots of parades, lots of parade outfits, which is another

977
00:46:10,719 --> 00:46:14,160
Speaker 4: fun thing to just sort of analyze what this person's

978
00:46:14,200 --> 00:46:19,040
Speaker 4: team thinks is a relatable Fourth of July parade outfit?

979
00:46:20,200 --> 00:46:22,439
Speaker 3: How should we dress run DeSantis for a Fourth of July.

980
00:46:23,360 --> 00:46:26,680
Speaker 4: But before we run this clip, because it is let's say,

981
00:46:26,719 --> 00:46:30,239
Speaker 4: in a word, homo erotic, But before we run it,

982
00:46:30,239 --> 00:46:31,880
Speaker 4: I want to say a lot of people said This

983
00:46:32,040 --> 00:46:36,320
Speaker 4: was an ad created by the Dysantas campaign. It's slightly

984
00:46:36,320 --> 00:46:38,680
Speaker 4: more nuanced than that doesn't necessarily make it better, but

985
00:46:38,800 --> 00:46:41,480
Speaker 4: it was an ad the Dstantus war room. So their

986
00:46:41,560 --> 00:46:43,799
Speaker 4: rapid response Twitter, which gosh, I don't even know why.

987
00:46:43,800 --> 00:46:47,480
Speaker 4: That's the thing that has to exist. They tweeted this

988
00:46:47,560 --> 00:46:50,400
Speaker 4: video out from like a random user who made it,

989
00:46:50,640 --> 00:46:53,680
Speaker 4: which may explain I guess the production quality. But they

990
00:46:53,680 --> 00:46:56,919
Speaker 4: still made the decision. The DeSantis campaign still made the decision.

991
00:46:56,600 --> 00:47:00,680
Speaker 3: Embraced it. They embraced it. Let's just the video and

992
00:47:00,719 --> 00:47:03,680
Speaker 3: we'll there'll be a lot to unpack. I will do

993
00:47:03,960 --> 00:47:11,000
Speaker 3: everything in my power to protect our lg EGQ citizens.

994
00:47:11,080 --> 00:47:14,200
Speaker 8: But Caitlyn Jenner were to walk into Trump Tower and

995
00:47:14,320 --> 00:47:16,560
Speaker 8: want to use the bathroom, you would be fine with

996
00:47:16,680 --> 00:47:19,040
Speaker 8: her using any bathroom she'd choose.

997
00:47:19,160 --> 00:47:22,439
Speaker 1: Does that as correct in the future Karn's gender women

998
00:47:22,960 --> 00:47:24,560
Speaker 1: compete in this union?

999
00:47:24,920 --> 00:47:26,680
Speaker 5: Yes, make America greater.

1000
00:47:27,400 --> 00:47:27,680
Speaker 7: Sick.

1001
00:47:36,680 --> 00:47:40,120
Speaker 4: This isn't just offensive for being so online, like they're

1002
00:47:40,160 --> 00:47:44,080
Speaker 4: putting Christian Bale Patrick Bateman in American Psycho juxtaposed with

1003
00:47:44,120 --> 00:47:46,160
Speaker 4: pictures of Ron DeSantis in a way that only.

1004
00:47:45,960 --> 00:47:47,520
Speaker 3: Works if you're like a thoroughly.

1005
00:47:47,160 --> 00:47:51,200
Speaker 4: Irony poisoned Twitter using zoomer, but not if you're an avatar.

1006
00:47:51,320 --> 00:47:53,239
Speaker 4: You're like, why are you comparing Rond de Stantis to

1007
00:47:53,719 --> 00:47:58,799
Speaker 4: a fictional serial killer? There's nothing that's politically palatable about that.

1008
00:47:59,480 --> 00:48:01,920
Speaker 4: Before we I think unpack that, let's also run and

1009
00:48:01,960 --> 00:48:04,680
Speaker 4: we can talk about these two clips together. Let's run

1010
00:48:04,880 --> 00:48:08,439
Speaker 4: C two because this is reaction from CNN. A couple

1011
00:48:08,480 --> 00:48:11,880
Speaker 4: of women who are on CNN talking about their approach

1012
00:48:11,880 --> 00:48:14,000
Speaker 4: to DeSantis and maybe some places where there's a red

1013
00:48:14,040 --> 00:48:17,040
Speaker 4: line for them as moms when it comes to, you know,

1014
00:48:17,080 --> 00:48:20,719
Speaker 4: the balance between DeSantis pushing back on what they see

1015
00:48:20,760 --> 00:48:23,400
Speaker 4: as the excesses of wokesm but also being sort of

1016
00:48:23,400 --> 00:48:24,719
Speaker 4: a conventional conservative.

1017
00:48:24,760 --> 00:48:25,759
Speaker 3: Let's rull C two.

1018
00:48:26,239 --> 00:48:30,120
Speaker 5: I'm wondering if you think that DeSantis's you know, very

1019
00:48:30,280 --> 00:48:35,120
Speaker 5: public war on WOKE distracts from the message that you

1020
00:48:35,280 --> 00:48:35,960
Speaker 5: like about.

1021
00:48:35,719 --> 00:48:36,399
Speaker 3: It a little bit.

1022
00:48:36,520 --> 00:48:39,640
Speaker 4: I do, yeah, because I mean to be honest, I

1023
00:48:40,160 --> 00:48:41,839
Speaker 4: do feel like it would be really good to have

1024
00:48:41,920 --> 00:48:44,359
Speaker 4: a big public debate about what did we get wrong

1025
00:48:44,400 --> 00:48:45,319
Speaker 4: in COVID Like.

1026
00:48:45,280 --> 00:48:47,479
Speaker 5: The left doesn't want to have that debate. It'd sign

1027
00:48:47,560 --> 00:48:52,160
Speaker 5: a law that restricts transgender care for adults as well

1028
00:48:52,200 --> 00:48:53,440
Speaker 5: as kids.

1029
00:48:53,960 --> 00:48:57,759
Speaker 7: I have greater concerns about the six week abortion bad

1030
00:48:57,840 --> 00:48:58,480
Speaker 7: tell me about that.

1031
00:48:58,600 --> 00:48:58,759
Speaker 3: You know.

1032
00:48:58,840 --> 00:49:00,880
Speaker 5: I think if he made.

1033
00:49:00,680 --> 00:49:03,839
Speaker 1: It clear that he's a states rights person and that

1034
00:49:03,960 --> 00:49:06,680
Speaker 1: he's not looking to kind of pass a national law

1035
00:49:06,719 --> 00:49:07,880
Speaker 1: in this regard.

1036
00:49:07,960 --> 00:49:09,239
Speaker 5: I think that's dangerous.

1037
00:49:09,600 --> 00:49:13,479
Speaker 9: That's something that I cannot get behind, and I don't

1038
00:49:13,640 --> 00:49:16,280
Speaker 9: think that's going to bode well for his presidential campaign.

1039
00:49:16,320 --> 00:49:19,160
Speaker 9: I think that that might be a real impediment to

1040
00:49:20,000 --> 00:49:22,640
Speaker 9: bringing in moderate women.

1041
00:49:22,920 --> 00:49:25,239
Speaker 4: Okay, so the first woman you saw there is Jennifer Say,

1042
00:49:25,360 --> 00:49:28,360
Speaker 4: and Sannon has this Chiron who said that says, you know,

1043
00:49:28,440 --> 00:49:32,200
Speaker 4: suburban moms, etc. I love Jennifer Say. She's a former

1044
00:49:32,200 --> 00:49:33,400
Speaker 4: executive at Levi's.

1045
00:49:33,440 --> 00:49:35,200
Speaker 3: She's great. People should read her book.

1046
00:49:35,719 --> 00:49:38,759
Speaker 4: Whether she's a representative of the average suburban mom as

1047
00:49:38,760 --> 00:49:40,919
Speaker 4: an executive at Levi's who now has a really big

1048
00:49:40,920 --> 00:49:44,000
Speaker 4: public platform, I don't know, But I do think she's

1049
00:49:44,120 --> 00:49:46,560
Speaker 4: she's speaking to something. Again, Like her book is really

1050
00:49:46,560 --> 00:49:48,839
Speaker 4: interesting on this how like during COVID and the way

1051
00:49:48,840 --> 00:49:51,359
Speaker 4: that people were talking about things, she sort of ended

1052
00:49:51,440 --> 00:49:53,799
Speaker 4: up getting getting pushed out at Levi's and has had

1053
00:49:53,800 --> 00:49:57,280
Speaker 4: a very very interesting career. But I think she's speaking

1054
00:49:57,320 --> 00:49:59,759
Speaker 4: to something that is real for a lot of women

1055
00:49:59,800 --> 00:50:02,319
Speaker 4: who look at, for instance, some of the things. This

1056
00:50:02,360 --> 00:50:04,400
Speaker 4: is why these two clips belong together. Some of the

1057
00:50:04,400 --> 00:50:08,000
Speaker 4: things that the first video is attempting to address, right

1058
00:50:08,080 --> 00:50:11,200
Speaker 4: like some of policies that your average mom probably does

1059
00:50:11,239 --> 00:50:13,640
Speaker 4: have a real problem with when it comes to locker

1060
00:50:13,719 --> 00:50:15,640
Speaker 4: rooms or bathrooms. Whether you agree with them on those

1061
00:50:15,640 --> 00:50:18,799
Speaker 4: issues or not, the country is pretty divided on them.

1062
00:50:19,000 --> 00:50:20,480
Speaker 4: So some of the things that video is trying to

1063
00:50:20,520 --> 00:50:23,239
Speaker 4: address while also being just completely.

1064
00:50:22,680 --> 00:50:24,280
Speaker 3: Off putting and in ways.

1065
00:50:24,280 --> 00:50:27,360
Speaker 4: Again I'm not saying Disantis, I'm I'm conservative, I'm you know,

1066
00:50:27,440 --> 00:50:31,320
Speaker 4: anti abortion. I'm not disputing what DeSantis did with the

1067
00:50:31,760 --> 00:50:36,520
Speaker 4: six week Band, But on the political level, that is

1068
00:50:36,800 --> 00:50:39,720
Speaker 4: a huge question mark, and whether or not he's able

1069
00:50:39,800 --> 00:50:42,880
Speaker 4: to sell it in a way that's politically popular is

1070
00:50:42,880 --> 00:50:45,400
Speaker 4: a huge question mark for him, and I think especially

1071
00:50:45,719 --> 00:50:48,920
Speaker 4: when you have a team that is so insulated in

1072
00:50:48,960 --> 00:50:52,920
Speaker 4: the online meme culture, that's like just the perfect example,

1073
00:50:53,040 --> 00:50:55,920
Speaker 4: Like if you're putting out ads like that, if you're

1074
00:50:55,960 --> 00:50:59,640
Speaker 4: reposting videos that are so deeply online that you're Jeux

1075
00:50:59,640 --> 00:51:03,080
Speaker 4: supposed DeSantis with a serial killer, your team actually might

1076
00:51:03,120 --> 00:51:06,040
Speaker 4: have very legitimate price like your ground game in Iowa

1077
00:51:06,080 --> 00:51:08,000
Speaker 4: can be really really good and you can be putting

1078
00:51:08,040 --> 00:51:10,279
Speaker 4: a lot of money there, which the Desantas campaign is doing,

1079
00:51:10,480 --> 00:51:13,080
Speaker 4: and you're going to have this stuff go viral. You're

1080
00:51:13,120 --> 00:51:15,760
Speaker 4: going to have certain things that if you just aren't

1081
00:51:15,760 --> 00:51:17,239
Speaker 4: on top of them and you aren't speaking to the

1082
00:51:17,280 --> 00:51:20,120
Speaker 4: average voter, it's going to not balance in the way

1083
00:51:20,120 --> 00:51:21,839
Speaker 4: that's politically viable for you.

1084
00:51:22,040 --> 00:51:24,239
Speaker 1: Yeah, there's I think a lot to say about this.

1085
00:51:24,520 --> 00:51:28,240
Speaker 1: So starting with the like anti gay, anti trans video,

1086
00:51:29,160 --> 00:51:32,480
Speaker 1: you'll recall that when DeSantis was doing the uh, you

1087
00:51:32,520 --> 00:51:34,640
Speaker 1: know what's been called the Don't Say Gay Bill, they

1088
00:51:34,680 --> 00:51:37,560
Speaker 1: were adamant that this wasn't actually about gay people, this

1089
00:51:37,760 --> 00:51:41,160
Speaker 1: was about parental choice. Yeah, for those of you who

1090
00:51:41,200 --> 00:51:44,440
Speaker 1: are just listening, if you watch that video, they're actually

1091
00:51:44,480 --> 00:51:48,080
Speaker 1: celebrating headlines that are like, yes, DeSantis passes the most

1092
00:51:48,120 --> 00:51:52,640
Speaker 1: extreme anti trans legislation in history, things like that. So

1093
00:51:52,920 --> 00:51:56,560
Speaker 1: instead of keeping their political framing of like, this is

1094
00:51:56,560 --> 00:51:59,719
Speaker 1: about parental choice, and this is about making sure that

1095
00:51:59,760 --> 00:52:01,640
Speaker 1: you know, parents know what's going on in their schools, etc.

1096
00:52:02,080 --> 00:52:03,719
Speaker 1: This isn't an attack on gay people, this is an

1097
00:52:03,719 --> 00:52:06,879
Speaker 1: attack on trans people. They're actually pulling the mask off

1098
00:52:06,880 --> 00:52:10,120
Speaker 1: and saying no, no, it is anti trans and not

1099
00:52:10,160 --> 00:52:12,120
Speaker 1: only that, we're really proud of that. We're going to

1100
00:52:12,360 --> 00:52:14,719
Speaker 1: we're going to celebrate that yet and it's funny, and

1101
00:52:14,960 --> 00:52:17,480
Speaker 1: you know, this is something that we're leaning into. So

1102
00:52:17,760 --> 00:52:21,359
Speaker 1: I've talked about this before on questions of you know,

1103
00:52:21,719 --> 00:52:27,960
Speaker 1: kids transitioning. Public pretty divided on questions of girls trans

1104
00:52:28,680 --> 00:52:31,880
Speaker 1: trans girls in sports. You know, this is an area

1105
00:52:31,960 --> 00:52:34,759
Speaker 1: where conservatives actually have the majority. However you feel about

1106
00:52:34,760 --> 00:52:37,600
Speaker 1: that question, Conservitives have the majority. So when you're staying

1107
00:52:37,600 --> 00:52:41,400
Speaker 1: on that ground, you're in a decent place politically, although

1108
00:52:41,480 --> 00:52:44,760
Speaker 1: I would say that leaning into that is a central

1109
00:52:44,800 --> 00:52:47,560
Speaker 1: issue is just not the core priority for most Americans.

1110
00:52:47,560 --> 00:52:49,040
Speaker 5: So I already think you're a little shaky there.

1111
00:52:49,040 --> 00:52:52,040
Speaker 1: But let's grant that those are areas where you have

1112
00:52:52,040 --> 00:52:54,120
Speaker 1: a majority of the public that might get behind your

1113
00:52:54,200 --> 00:52:57,520
Speaker 1: what your position is. When you get into i'm just

1114
00:52:57,520 --> 00:53:01,160
Speaker 1: against gay people, I'm just against trans people having equal rights,

1115
00:53:01,400 --> 00:53:04,920
Speaker 1: you are wildly opposite public opinion on gay marriage. You're

1116
00:53:04,960 --> 00:53:09,239
Speaker 1: actually opposite public opinion even within the Republican Party. So

1117
00:53:09,760 --> 00:53:13,319
Speaker 1: that's an example of these issues have become an absolute

1118
00:53:13,400 --> 00:53:17,960
Speaker 1: fixation for the online right. The fixation is at odds

1119
00:53:18,040 --> 00:53:22,240
Speaker 1: with the public, and the actual policy position is wildly

1120
00:53:22,280 --> 00:53:24,359
Speaker 1: at odds with the American public. So when you talk

1121
00:53:24,400 --> 00:53:27,279
Speaker 1: about being way too online, like, that's the specifics of

1122
00:53:27,320 --> 00:53:30,000
Speaker 1: the rub there. And why this video was I think

1123
00:53:30,080 --> 00:53:32,600
Speaker 1: such a problem for him is because it took away,

1124
00:53:32,640 --> 00:53:36,440
Speaker 1: it stripped away any pretense of moderation on the policy.

1125
00:53:36,480 --> 00:53:38,799
Speaker 5: So there's that piece. The other piece that I got

1126
00:53:38,800 --> 00:53:41,160
Speaker 5: from the quote unquote Suburban Moms, which.

1127
00:53:41,120 --> 00:53:43,320
Speaker 1: Was anytime you interview like two people like, take it

1128
00:53:43,360 --> 00:53:45,359
Speaker 1: all with a grain of salt. We're very careful about

1129
00:53:45,400 --> 00:53:47,399
Speaker 1: not taking anecdotes and extrapolating tone.

1130
00:53:47,440 --> 00:53:48,920
Speaker 5: But there is some polling to back this up.

1131
00:53:49,400 --> 00:53:51,719
Speaker 1: And I got a distinction that I hadn't really made

1132
00:53:51,719 --> 00:53:53,640
Speaker 1: a connection I hadn't really made before, which is that

1133
00:53:54,120 --> 00:53:57,959
Speaker 1: when Ronda Santis was really rising in popularity, and when

1134
00:53:58,120 --> 00:54:00,560
Speaker 1: you know, he was winning re election and his approval

1135
00:54:00,640 --> 00:54:02,520
Speaker 1: ratings and flour are really high, and he's rising and

1136
00:54:02,560 --> 00:54:06,440
Speaker 1: rising in the Republican primary, it wasn't so much when

1137
00:54:06,480 --> 00:54:10,799
Speaker 1: he was leaning hard into the culture war stuff. It

1138
00:54:10,840 --> 00:54:13,240
Speaker 1: was based on his COVID policies, and it was based

1139
00:54:13,239 --> 00:54:15,600
Speaker 1: on the fact that you know, at the time, there

1140
00:54:15,719 --> 00:54:17,719
Speaker 1: was you know, a stance that was taken from him,

1141
00:54:17,719 --> 00:54:19,640
Speaker 1: a public stance that was taken, and they decided to

1142
00:54:19,680 --> 00:54:22,719
Speaker 1: keep the schools open, and especially for parents. I mean,

1143
00:54:22,719 --> 00:54:25,600
Speaker 1: in retrospect, the school closures, especially the length of the

1144
00:54:25,640 --> 00:54:27,520
Speaker 1: school closures, just it's.

1145
00:54:27,360 --> 00:54:28,520
Speaker 5: An unmitigated disaster.

1146
00:54:28,960 --> 00:54:31,799
Speaker 1: It's one of the worst public policy decisions that's been

1147
00:54:31,800 --> 00:54:35,600
Speaker 1: made in quite a long time. So that was quite compelling.

1148
00:54:36,000 --> 00:54:38,360
Speaker 1: But we have now left the COVID era, so that

1149
00:54:38,440 --> 00:54:42,120
Speaker 1: stuff becomes less relevant. It's less you know, central to

1150
00:54:42,800 --> 00:54:45,239
Speaker 1: how people are making their political decisions, even among the

1151
00:54:45,239 --> 00:54:48,640
Speaker 1: Republican base that is both animated by COVID at this

1152
00:54:48,719 --> 00:54:52,319
Speaker 1: point by litigating COVID policies and what that looks like.

1153
00:54:52,680 --> 00:54:54,880
Speaker 1: Even for them, this is not a top priority.

1154
00:54:55,320 --> 00:54:56,360
Speaker 5: So as he's.

1155
00:54:56,160 --> 00:54:58,680
Speaker 1: Moved into okay, I'm going to lean into anti wokeness,

1156
00:54:58,719 --> 00:55:00,400
Speaker 1: I want to lean into anti trans I'm going to

1157
00:55:00,480 --> 00:55:02,240
Speaker 1: lean into anti abortion.

1158
00:55:03,080 --> 00:55:06,200
Speaker 5: That has been much that has not worked as well

1159
00:55:06,239 --> 00:55:06,600
Speaker 5: for him.

1160
00:55:06,680 --> 00:55:08,359
Speaker 1: And we see the way that the Poles are falling

1161
00:55:08,360 --> 00:55:11,120
Speaker 1: off in their Republican primary. Certainly, the way that the public

1162
00:55:11,160 --> 00:55:13,880
Speaker 1: image has changed and the questions that you know, some

1163
00:55:13,920 --> 00:55:16,520
Speaker 1: of these moms at least were raising to CNN, I

1164
00:55:16,560 --> 00:55:19,560
Speaker 1: think is reflected in also some of the polling of

1165
00:55:19,560 --> 00:55:23,040
Speaker 1: how Ronda Santis is doing and on how those various

1166
00:55:23,080 --> 00:55:25,400
Speaker 1: issues actually land with a general public.

1167
00:55:25,680 --> 00:55:28,160
Speaker 4: So this is a huge point because one of the

1168
00:55:28,200 --> 00:55:29,960
Speaker 4: things when you look at the COVID policy, when you

1169
00:55:29,960 --> 00:55:32,839
Speaker 4: look at, for instance, Glenn Younkin, who people compare Ronda

1170
00:55:32,840 --> 00:55:33,480
Speaker 4: Santis to a lot.

1171
00:55:33,600 --> 00:55:36,120
Speaker 3: They say, these are two people in purple states.

1172
00:55:36,160 --> 00:55:38,799
Speaker 4: I know, Florida, it looks like solidly read right now,

1173
00:55:38,840 --> 00:55:41,359
Speaker 4: but the demographics and like the way Florida has voted

1174
00:55:41,360 --> 00:55:43,160
Speaker 4: for a really long time, it's a purple set.

1175
00:55:43,160 --> 00:55:45,640
Speaker 3: I mean, Andrew Gillim almost beat Ronda Santis. I mean

1176
00:55:45,640 --> 00:55:45,920
Speaker 3: it was.

1177
00:55:45,920 --> 00:55:48,480
Speaker 4: Really really really close. Yeah, And people say, well, look

1178
00:55:48,480 --> 00:55:50,719
Speaker 4: at what Ronda Santis has done. He's turned Florida into

1179
00:55:50,719 --> 00:55:53,200
Speaker 4: a red state. And the big question was he was

1180
00:55:53,280 --> 00:55:55,840
Speaker 4: doing these anti woke policies, and it was more that

1181
00:55:56,200 --> 00:55:59,759
Speaker 4: it wasn't hurting the COVID sugar hide that he was

1182
00:55:59,800 --> 00:56:02,400
Speaker 4: on for having sane in reasonable COVID policies, just like

1183
00:56:02,440 --> 00:56:05,200
Speaker 4: Glenn Youngkin having sane in reasonable COVID policies.

1184
00:56:05,400 --> 00:56:07,400
Speaker 3: You could also do this sort.

1185
00:56:07,200 --> 00:56:09,600
Speaker 4: Of anti woke pro family or you know, however they

1186
00:56:09,640 --> 00:56:12,680
Speaker 4: want to pitch it legislation and you're not going to suffer.

1187
00:56:12,760 --> 00:56:14,360
Speaker 4: In fact, in some cases you may go up a

1188
00:56:14,400 --> 00:56:16,319
Speaker 4: little bit because people really like it. But it was

1189
00:56:16,400 --> 00:56:18,839
Speaker 4: always that way that like you can, you know, run

1190
00:56:18,840 --> 00:56:22,000
Speaker 4: a sane in reasonable economy, you can run a sane

1191
00:56:22,000 --> 00:56:23,840
Speaker 4: and reasonable like COVID regime.

1192
00:56:23,840 --> 00:56:25,920
Speaker 3: And still do this other stuff and be okay.

1193
00:56:26,080 --> 00:56:28,160
Speaker 4: And that to the right was what was really interesting

1194
00:56:28,200 --> 00:56:30,799
Speaker 4: is that you're not going to tank your prospects if

1195
00:56:30,840 --> 00:56:33,000
Speaker 4: you craft these policies and talk about them in a

1196
00:56:33,040 --> 00:56:35,880
Speaker 4: really particular way. Well, that really particular way is not

1197
00:56:35,960 --> 00:56:40,520
Speaker 4: Patrick Bateman and not sort of being cruel towards you know,

1198
00:56:40,800 --> 00:56:43,080
Speaker 4: in a country like they're getting dragged into this fight

1199
00:56:43,120 --> 00:56:45,080
Speaker 4: because they think it helps them against Donald Trump, to

1200
00:56:45,120 --> 00:56:48,880
Speaker 4: be like, we are more anti trans than Donald Trump,

1201
00:56:48,920 --> 00:56:51,240
Speaker 4: we are more so reasonable in these policies.

1202
00:56:50,840 --> 00:56:51,600
Speaker 3: Than Donald Trump.

1203
00:56:51,800 --> 00:56:55,400
Speaker 4: But just going full and using those headlines that you

1204
00:56:55,520 --> 00:56:57,680
Speaker 4: make around to stands that sound cruel. I understand they're

1205
00:56:57,680 --> 00:56:59,920
Speaker 4: probably like, this is about the media. We're showing that

1206
00:57:00,000 --> 00:57:02,400
Speaker 4: we don't give a damn about the media. Blah blah blah.

1207
00:57:02,440 --> 00:57:05,080
Speaker 4: It doesn't come across that way the average person whatsoever.

1208
00:57:05,120 --> 00:57:08,000
Speaker 4: I mean, this is like political maulpractice on another level,

1209
00:57:08,000 --> 00:57:10,480
Speaker 4: for the rapid response low a team to tweet this

1210
00:57:10,560 --> 00:57:13,440
Speaker 4: out because meme culture is really not the way when

1211
00:57:13,480 --> 00:57:15,680
Speaker 4: you still have a huge chunk of the voting population

1212
00:57:15,760 --> 00:57:18,720
Speaker 4: that are baby boomers and are right now sitting at

1213
00:57:18,760 --> 00:57:20,400
Speaker 4: home trying to figure out how to use threads.

1214
00:57:21,640 --> 00:57:23,360
Speaker 1: And we love you guys now they haven't even heard

1215
00:57:23,360 --> 00:57:26,000
Speaker 1: about it yet cultures.

1216
00:57:26,520 --> 00:57:31,080
Speaker 4: So anyway, just I think a really representative early misstep

1217
00:57:31,120 --> 00:57:34,080
Speaker 4: from the DeSantis campaign that gets symbolically to some of

1218
00:57:34,120 --> 00:57:36,600
Speaker 4: these other problems where they have this legion of online

1219
00:57:36,640 --> 00:57:38,959
Speaker 4: influencers that I think are going to do more harm

1220
00:57:38,960 --> 00:57:41,000
Speaker 4: than good in the long run, because they start to

1221
00:57:41,160 --> 00:57:45,480
Speaker 4: generate headlines like this video was covered in corporate press,

1222
00:57:45,480 --> 00:57:48,000
Speaker 4: the fact that they like it got coverage in legacy media,

1223
00:57:48,040 --> 00:57:50,200
Speaker 4: and so as normal people see stuff like that, they're

1224
00:57:50,240 --> 00:57:51,680
Speaker 4: just like, what the hell are you doing?

1225
00:57:51,920 --> 00:57:54,120
Speaker 3: I don't even speak this language, but it looks.

1226
00:57:53,920 --> 00:57:56,800
Speaker 1: Really dumb, right, Like I literally don't even know what

1227
00:57:56,960 --> 00:57:58,840
Speaker 1: is going on in this ad, but I don't like it.

1228
00:57:58,920 --> 00:58:00,000
Speaker 3: Wow, they're shirtless men.

1229
00:58:01,680 --> 00:58:05,800
Speaker 1: The Desanta's piece is the Youngkin piece is actually interesting

1230
00:58:05,800 --> 00:58:07,960
Speaker 1: to me because I always thought at the time when

1231
00:58:08,000 --> 00:58:11,560
Speaker 1: he won and beat Terry mccalliff. First of all, the

1232
00:58:11,600 --> 00:58:14,960
Speaker 1: downsides of Terry mccalluff were under sold. But second of all,

1233
00:58:15,640 --> 00:58:20,480
Speaker 1: I thought the critical race theory piece of Glenn Youngkin's

1234
00:58:20,560 --> 00:58:24,960
Speaker 1: victory was really oversold, and it was more about the

1235
00:58:25,000 --> 00:58:27,800
Speaker 1: fact that schools had been closed and parents wanted their

1236
00:58:27,840 --> 00:58:30,120
Speaker 1: kids to be in school, and it was more about

1237
00:58:30,160 --> 00:58:33,880
Speaker 1: the positioning on COVID policy. And I think as time

1238
00:58:33,960 --> 00:58:37,920
Speaker 1: has worn on and as Republicans have been unable to

1239
00:58:37,960 --> 00:58:41,280
Speaker 1: repeat the success of Glenn Youngkin and Ron DeSantis in

1240
00:58:41,320 --> 00:58:43,800
Speaker 1: Florida was an outlier in terms of the midterms, I

1241
00:58:43,840 --> 00:58:46,880
Speaker 1: think it has become clear that that was the piece

1242
00:58:46,920 --> 00:58:49,600
Speaker 1: that was really energizing. That was the piece that appealed

1243
00:58:49,600 --> 00:58:52,480
Speaker 1: to a lot of suburban moms who they had lost,

1244
00:58:52,640 --> 00:58:55,959
Speaker 1: you know, and during the Donald Trump years, much more

1245
00:58:56,080 --> 00:58:59,040
Speaker 1: so than the cultural pieces, because there was a lot

1246
00:58:59,080 --> 00:59:01,720
Speaker 1: of leaning into anti trans legislation, there was a lot

1247
00:59:01,760 --> 00:59:05,720
Speaker 1: of leaning into anti CRT legislation. In the midterms, there

1248
00:59:05,800 --> 00:59:08,560
Speaker 1: was a lot of money put behind it, school board races,

1249
00:59:08,600 --> 00:59:11,000
Speaker 1: all the rest, and it sort of fell flat. So

1250
00:59:11,200 --> 00:59:12,960
Speaker 1: I think at this point we've got a pretty good

1251
00:59:12,960 --> 00:59:15,320
Speaker 1: read on how the public feels about this landscape and

1252
00:59:15,360 --> 00:59:19,200
Speaker 1: which pieces are more appealing at which pieces are less appealing.

1253
00:59:19,840 --> 00:59:22,080
Speaker 1: The final final thing I want to say here is

1254
00:59:22,080 --> 00:59:24,960
Speaker 1: that you know this also example of like Trump can

1255
00:59:25,040 --> 00:59:27,560
Speaker 1: get away with things that other politicians, yes.

1256
00:59:27,680 --> 00:59:29,080
Speaker 3: Because it's not like Trump's true.

1257
00:59:29,080 --> 00:59:32,400
Speaker 1: I remember Trump after the dysantist failed launch thing, he

1258
00:59:32,600 --> 00:59:36,000
Speaker 1: posted something again that some other person had made, but

1259
00:59:36,080 --> 00:59:38,640
Speaker 1: he I think he directly reposted it, not even like

1260
00:59:38,680 --> 00:59:41,920
Speaker 1: his war room that was like a Twitter's faces with

1261
00:59:42,000 --> 00:59:43,760
Speaker 1: the Devil and Adolph Hitler.

1262
00:59:44,000 --> 00:59:45,120
Speaker 5: I mean it just like ridiculous.

1263
00:59:45,120 --> 00:59:48,240
Speaker 1: It was actually hilarious, but it was also totally over

1264
00:59:48,280 --> 00:59:52,880
Speaker 1: the top, totally ridiculous, and he can somehow get away

1265
00:59:52,920 --> 00:59:56,040
Speaker 1: with it because in addition to doing those things, he

1266
00:59:56,120 --> 00:59:59,480
Speaker 1: also sometimes has more of a normy sensibility where it's

1267
00:59:59,520 --> 01:00:02,920
Speaker 1: like he moderates on Social Security and Medicare, he moderates

1268
01:00:02,960 --> 01:00:07,360
Speaker 1: on issues like abortion where actually Republican activists and elites

1269
01:00:07,400 --> 01:00:10,520
Speaker 1: are at odds with a good part of the Republican

1270
01:00:10,560 --> 01:00:13,800
Speaker 1: base and certainly with the general public, and he just

1271
01:00:13,960 --> 01:00:16,000
Speaker 1: has He's one of those people that just has the

1272
01:00:16,040 --> 01:00:16,960
Speaker 1: chrismon and the skill to.

1273
01:00:16,880 --> 01:00:18,200
Speaker 5: Be able to pull some of these things off. That

1274
01:00:18,320 --> 01:00:19,360
Speaker 5: Ron de Sander's camp.

1275
01:00:19,200 --> 01:00:21,200
Speaker 4: And he spent the vast majority of his career outside

1276
01:00:21,240 --> 01:00:23,680
Speaker 4: of politics, and isn't pretending to be some sort of

1277
01:00:23,720 --> 01:00:28,320
Speaker 4: like extremely competent, like average politician, Whereas that's like part

1278
01:00:28,360 --> 01:00:30,680
Speaker 4: of the tension between DeSantis and Trump. Here he was

1279
01:00:30,800 --> 01:00:32,960
Speaker 4: going full Boom or Grampa over the weekend. I'm sorry

1280
01:00:33,040 --> 01:00:35,760
Speaker 4: to keep Harvey on boomers. It's just funny when we're

1281
01:00:35,760 --> 01:00:39,200
Speaker 4: talking about meme culture. He posted pictures of himself photoshoppedunder

1282
01:00:39,200 --> 01:00:42,840
Speaker 4: George Washington's body, all kinds of good stuff going on there,

1283
01:00:43,320 --> 01:00:46,280
Speaker 4: and just like an F Biden flag that again the

1284
01:00:46,280 --> 01:00:47,560
Speaker 4: media was very upset about.

1285
01:00:47,640 --> 01:00:49,400
Speaker 3: But again, if you're Donald Trump, you can do it.

1286
01:00:49,560 --> 01:00:51,960
Speaker 4: If you're Ron DeSantis, you really need to be a

1287
01:00:52,040 --> 01:00:54,880
Speaker 4: whole lot more careful because you did not host The

1288
01:00:54,920 --> 01:00:57,919
Speaker 4: Celebrity Apprentice, which I still miss to this day.

1289
01:00:58,240 --> 01:01:00,200
Speaker 3: Now, one person who was not doing.

1290
01:01:00,120 --> 01:01:03,480
Speaker 4: The sort of schlep the sweaty shlept down parades, although

1291
01:01:03,520 --> 01:01:04,160
Speaker 4: I think he did.

1292
01:01:04,040 --> 01:01:06,120
Speaker 3: Do a rally this weekend is Donald Trump.

1293
01:01:06,240 --> 01:01:08,560
Speaker 4: And this raises an interesting question that we wanted to

1294
01:01:08,600 --> 01:01:11,960
Speaker 4: talk about, which is, Uh, first of all, let's put

1295
01:01:12,000 --> 01:01:14,960
Speaker 4: up C three predict it, which I think is kind

1296
01:01:14,960 --> 01:01:17,160
Speaker 4: of a shameful company I don't think we should be betting

1297
01:01:17,120 --> 01:01:17,720
Speaker 4: our politics.

1298
01:01:17,880 --> 01:01:19,040
Speaker 3: I don't like that to begin with.

1299
01:01:19,040 --> 01:01:20,480
Speaker 5: Oh really, yeah, I don't.

1300
01:01:20,520 --> 01:01:21,040
Speaker 3: I don't like that.

1301
01:01:21,440 --> 01:01:24,640
Speaker 1: The free market on this one definitely not not really

1302
01:01:24,680 --> 01:01:26,640
Speaker 1: for the free market on gambling, period.

1303
01:01:26,680 --> 01:01:32,080
Speaker 4: But you see here that the odds of DeSantis unpredicted.

1304
01:01:32,160 --> 01:01:34,080
Speaker 4: So maybe you just predicted, maybe you don't. It's a

1305
01:01:34,360 --> 01:01:37,439
Speaker 4: it's like a New Zealand website that lets you bet

1306
01:01:37,440 --> 01:01:40,520
Speaker 4: on the outcome of elections and politics in general.

1307
01:01:42,000 --> 01:01:43,320
Speaker 3: They put the odds of.

1308
01:01:43,320 --> 01:01:48,440
Speaker 4: Gavin Newsom getting elected ahead of Ron DeSantis based on

1309
01:01:48,800 --> 01:01:50,760
Speaker 4: where things are right now.

1310
01:01:51,560 --> 01:01:53,360
Speaker 3: That's you know that people right now.

1311
01:01:53,480 --> 01:01:55,360
Speaker 4: The people who are predicted better is the group of

1312
01:01:55,360 --> 01:01:58,160
Speaker 4: people who are betting on that website. They're saying Newsom

1313
01:01:58,560 --> 01:02:01,120
Speaker 4: has a better chance. So DeSantis no dropped three cents

1314
01:02:01,160 --> 01:02:04,680
Speaker 4: and Newsom's have gone up a penny in recent betting.

1315
01:02:05,000 --> 01:02:05,880
Speaker 3: But on top of.

1316
01:02:05,840 --> 01:02:08,640
Speaker 4: That, the question of Fourth of July parades, you have Trump,

1317
01:02:09,280 --> 01:02:11,560
Speaker 4: as Axio says, we can put up the next I

1318
01:02:11,600 --> 01:02:14,640
Speaker 4: think this is C four actually says Trump is quote

1319
01:02:14,760 --> 01:02:17,640
Speaker 4: not campaigning at the pace of previous cycles, preferring to

1320
01:02:17,640 --> 01:02:19,200
Speaker 4: spend most of his days at mar A Lago and

1321
01:02:19,240 --> 01:02:22,000
Speaker 4: Bedminster that's in New Jersey rather than grip and grinning.

1322
01:02:22,080 --> 01:02:25,440
Speaker 4: In Iowa and other early primary states, their headline is

1323
01:02:25,480 --> 01:02:26,880
Speaker 4: Trump's basement campaign.

1324
01:02:27,520 --> 01:02:29,880
Speaker 3: The Trump team vigorously denies this.

1325
01:02:30,520 --> 01:02:34,080
Speaker 4: Acxio says that though that Trump campaign officials have said,

1326
01:02:34,080 --> 01:02:35,840
Speaker 4: part of the reason he is not holding many rallies

1327
01:02:35,880 --> 01:02:38,520
Speaker 4: is because they are expensive. Quote, they said something like

1328
01:02:39,480 --> 01:02:41,640
Speaker 4: half a billion dollars a rally, or not billion, half

1329
01:02:41,640 --> 01:02:43,440
Speaker 4: a million dollars a rally or something like that, like

1330
01:02:44,640 --> 01:02:49,640
Speaker 4: some crazy, crazy number. But Trump was He's held four

1331
01:02:49,640 --> 01:02:52,120
Speaker 4: events in Iowa, five in New Hampshire, two in South Carolina,

1332
01:02:52,200 --> 01:02:55,720
Speaker 4: and none in Nevada. DeSantis has had fifty five events,

1333
01:02:55,800 --> 01:02:58,080
Speaker 4: Nikki Haley has had fifty nine, Tim Scott has had

1334
01:02:58,120 --> 01:03:00,680
Speaker 4: thirty six, and the veck Wamaswami as an one hundred

1335
01:03:00,760 --> 01:03:03,920
Speaker 4: and two. But Trump has been at thirty despite being

1336
01:03:03,960 --> 01:03:07,720
Speaker 4: in the race longer than other people. So even so,

1337
01:03:07,960 --> 01:03:10,840
Speaker 4: Donald Trump, running what Access has dubbed a basement campaign,

1338
01:03:11,240 --> 01:03:14,200
Speaker 4: still has a really healthy lead over run DeSantis, who

1339
01:03:14,200 --> 01:03:16,080
Speaker 4: has a decent trunk of money and is heading these

1340
01:03:16,080 --> 01:03:19,520
Speaker 4: states really hard, and everyone else, In fact, everyone else.

1341
01:03:19,760 --> 01:03:21,800
Speaker 4: You can split up the votes and it's the opposite.

1342
01:03:21,800 --> 01:03:23,960
Speaker 4: We've talked about this before. Trump is still healthily in

1343
01:03:23,960 --> 01:03:25,480
Speaker 4: the lead as opposed to in the past. If you

1344
01:03:25,520 --> 01:03:28,520
Speaker 4: had combined all of those votes into one candidate, Trump

1345
01:03:28,560 --> 01:03:31,680
Speaker 4: would lose. It's the exact reverse of that this time around,

1346
01:03:31,840 --> 01:03:34,120
Speaker 4: and the guy's done thirty in person campaign events.

1347
01:03:34,440 --> 01:03:36,800
Speaker 1: I mean, I think it's a sign of the sclerotic

1348
01:03:37,120 --> 01:03:40,160
Speaker 1: decline of our nation that you've got two old men

1349
01:03:40,280 --> 01:03:42,840
Speaker 1: that the majority of the country don't want, that don't

1350
01:03:42,840 --> 01:03:45,760
Speaker 1: even feel the need to campaign or probably subject themselves

1351
01:03:45,800 --> 01:03:48,880
Speaker 1: to debate, and they're likely to win the party nominations.

1352
01:03:48,920 --> 01:03:49,680
Speaker 3: I mean, good point.

1353
01:03:49,800 --> 01:03:51,880
Speaker 1: I mean, I don't know why Trump would do more events.

1354
01:03:51,920 --> 01:03:53,800
Speaker 1: He doesn't need to, right, I don't know why he

1355
01:03:53,840 --> 01:03:56,440
Speaker 1: would debate if he doesn't have to. He doesn't need to.

1356
01:03:56,520 --> 01:03:58,560
Speaker 1: I don't know why Biden would debate, you know, he

1357
01:03:58,600 --> 01:04:00,840
Speaker 1: feels like he doesn't need to. For all their talk

1358
01:04:00,840 --> 01:04:03,160
Speaker 1: of democracy, like when it comes down to it, they

1359
01:04:03,160 --> 01:04:06,400
Speaker 1: don't actually believe in it, None of them do. So Yeah,

1360
01:04:06,480 --> 01:04:09,040
Speaker 1: I think it's I think it's just a pathetic sign

1361
01:04:09,120 --> 01:04:13,200
Speaker 1: of the times. And probably Trump is correct in his

1362
01:04:13,360 --> 01:04:16,120
Speaker 1: analysis here. I mean, you've got the vacaramaswami running all

1363
01:04:16,160 --> 01:04:19,200
Speaker 1: over Iowa. If you look at that map, you know

1364
01:04:19,240 --> 01:04:21,480
Speaker 1: he's been there like eighty times or something like that.

1365
01:04:22,280 --> 01:04:26,320
Speaker 1: But you know, Trump just getting like getting indited and

1366
01:04:26,560 --> 01:04:30,920
Speaker 1: CNN doing lots of lots of panels outrage panels about him,

1367
01:04:30,920 --> 01:04:33,600
Speaker 1: which you know, listen, there's plenty to be outreached about.

1368
01:04:33,600 --> 01:04:37,360
Speaker 1: But that's all he really needs to do in order

1369
01:04:37,400 --> 01:04:41,400
Speaker 1: to secure the nomination. So, you know, on the predicted

1370
01:04:41,440 --> 01:04:45,160
Speaker 1: thing is also just sad. It's sad for ron It

1371
01:04:45,200 --> 01:04:46,960
Speaker 1: is obviously embarrassing for Rona Santis.

1372
01:04:47,160 --> 01:04:48,320
Speaker 5: But even the.

1373
01:04:48,280 --> 01:04:53,560
Speaker 1: Fact that people are floating Newsome, they must either think, like, nah,

1374
01:04:53,560 --> 01:04:54,520
Speaker 1: they really they.

1375
01:04:54,400 --> 01:04:55,520
Speaker 5: Can't just go with Bike.

1376
01:04:55,520 --> 01:04:57,480
Speaker 1: Come on, this guy can barely put a sentence together,

1377
01:04:57,600 --> 01:04:59,400
Speaker 1: like surely they're not going to stick with Biden.

1378
01:04:59,440 --> 01:05:00,920
Speaker 5: But guess what, guys, they are going to stick.

1379
01:05:00,760 --> 01:05:04,200
Speaker 1: With Biden, or they think it's likely enough that he

1380
01:05:04,240 --> 01:05:08,360
Speaker 1: would suffer some major health event or actually pass away,

1381
01:05:08,640 --> 01:05:11,640
Speaker 1: not something anyone is cheering for here, they think that

1382
01:05:11,760 --> 01:05:12,840
Speaker 1: is a likely enough.

1383
01:05:12,680 --> 01:05:15,200
Speaker 5: Outcome that they're like, and then I guess Newsum's in

1384
01:05:15,440 --> 01:05:19,680
Speaker 5: like the driver's seat. So yeah, it's kind of amazing.

1385
01:05:19,720 --> 01:05:21,960
Speaker 1: I mean, I don't think that Gavin Newsom has a

1386
01:05:21,960 --> 01:05:25,120
Speaker 1: better shot at being president than Ron DeSantis. But I

1387
01:05:25,120 --> 01:05:27,080
Speaker 1: also don't really think either one of them has much

1388
01:05:27,080 --> 01:05:27,919
Speaker 1: of a shot at this point.

1389
01:05:28,000 --> 01:05:30,320
Speaker 4: I wonder if actually it's not even a statement so

1390
01:05:30,400 --> 01:05:32,760
Speaker 4: much on Destantus versus Trump as it's a statement on

1391
01:05:32,800 --> 01:05:33,800
Speaker 4: Biden's health in the.

1392
01:05:33,720 --> 01:05:35,840
Speaker 3: Predicted odds, there's a real question.

1393
01:05:35,960 --> 01:05:38,200
Speaker 4: Yeah, And I genuinely think that's also why you have

1394
01:05:38,240 --> 01:05:40,320
Speaker 4: a lot of Republican candidates who thought it was a

1395
01:05:41,200 --> 01:05:43,360
Speaker 4: lot of Republican candidates, and we're talking about this last week.

1396
01:05:43,400 --> 01:05:45,120
Speaker 4: A bunch of them are in the race more than

1397
01:05:45,120 --> 01:05:47,720
Speaker 4: people even like predicted would actually pull the trigger and

1398
01:05:47,800 --> 01:05:50,400
Speaker 4: jump into the race and like have a super pac,

1399
01:05:50,720 --> 01:05:53,720
Speaker 4: get the money whatever. I think that's partially the reason.

1400
01:05:53,720 --> 01:05:55,919
Speaker 4: Even on the Republican side. Donald Trump is also pretty old.

1401
01:05:56,120 --> 01:05:58,840
Speaker 4: He's facing a ton of legal challenges right now. I

1402
01:05:58,880 --> 01:06:01,640
Speaker 4: don't think anyone sees any one of those legal challenges

1403
01:06:01,680 --> 01:06:04,560
Speaker 4: individually is being something that could tank his campaign. He

1404
01:06:04,600 --> 01:06:07,920
Speaker 4: could do Don Blankenship right and probably still campaign in

1405
01:06:07,960 --> 01:06:12,160
Speaker 4: remprisent if any of these trials like progress to that point, right.

1406
01:06:12,240 --> 01:06:14,160
Speaker 4: But all that is to say, I actually think that's

1407
01:06:14,160 --> 01:06:16,480
Speaker 4: the reason why you've seen so many Republican candidates jump

1408
01:06:16,560 --> 01:06:19,600
Speaker 4: in too, because to your point, this is a really

1409
01:06:19,640 --> 01:06:23,320
Speaker 4: depressing sign of how sclerotic and just kind of.

1410
01:06:23,280 --> 01:06:24,280
Speaker 3: Productive how politics are.

1411
01:06:24,360 --> 01:06:27,919
Speaker 5: Right now, Yeah, all.

1412
01:06:27,880 --> 01:06:29,600
Speaker 1: Right, let's get to something that you know, we really

1413
01:06:29,640 --> 01:06:32,640
Speaker 1: want to keep our eye on here, which is potentially

1414
01:06:32,640 --> 01:06:35,720
Speaker 1: the largest strike in American history is looming in the

1415
01:06:35,760 --> 01:06:38,640
Speaker 1: next couple of weeks. This has to do with UPS,

1416
01:06:38,680 --> 01:06:42,840
Speaker 1: workers organized under Teamsters. Three hundred and forty thousand, I

1417
01:06:42,880 --> 01:06:45,960
Speaker 1: believe is the number of workers who could potentially be

1418
01:06:46,040 --> 01:06:46,959
Speaker 1: going on strike.

1419
01:06:47,040 --> 01:06:48,200
Speaker 5: Let's put this up on the screen.

1420
01:06:48,240 --> 01:06:52,280
Speaker 1: So they've been in active negotiations with UPS. This is

1421
01:06:52,320 --> 01:06:55,240
Speaker 1: the largest private labor.

1422
01:06:55,000 --> 01:06:56,440
Speaker 5: Contract in the country.

1423
01:06:56,520 --> 01:06:58,800
Speaker 1: So this is huge and I don't have to tell

1424
01:06:58,840 --> 01:07:02,000
Speaker 1: you guys how UPS is to the workings of our

1425
01:07:02,040 --> 01:07:07,040
Speaker 1: economy at this point. You know, huge carrier, huge potential implications,

1426
01:07:07,120 --> 01:07:10,200
Speaker 1: and really huge for not just these workers, but also

1427
01:07:10,320 --> 01:07:13,840
Speaker 1: for really all of labor to see what they you know,

1428
01:07:13,880 --> 01:07:16,120
Speaker 1: what kind of conditions they would be able to secure

1429
01:07:16,200 --> 01:07:18,160
Speaker 1: and whether they can push back on years and years

1430
01:07:18,160 --> 01:07:21,080
Speaker 1: of neoliberal labor union decline. Okay, so leave us up

1431
01:07:21,080 --> 01:07:22,480
Speaker 1: on the screen. Let me read this here. This is

1432
01:07:22,480 --> 01:07:26,560
Speaker 1: from the Teamsters. They say after marathon sessions, UPS negotiations

1433
01:07:26,840 --> 01:07:31,080
Speaker 1: collapse around four AM, and I believe this was on Saturday.

1434
01:07:31,280 --> 01:07:33,960
Speaker 1: UPS walked away from the marketing table after presenting an

1435
01:07:34,120 --> 01:07:37,680
Speaker 1: unacceptable offer to the Teamsters that did not address members needs.

1436
01:07:37,960 --> 01:07:42,440
Speaker 1: The UPS Teamsters National Negotiating Committee unanimously rejected the package.

1437
01:07:42,480 --> 01:07:44,160
Speaker 1: Put the next piece up on the screen, and this

1438
01:07:44,280 --> 01:07:49,640
Speaker 1: was a Twitter thread they go on. Following marathon negotiations,

1439
01:07:49,720 --> 01:07:52,520
Speaker 1: UPS refused to give the Teamsters a last, best and

1440
01:07:52,600 --> 01:07:55,120
Speaker 1: final offer, telling the union the company had nothing more

1441
01:07:55,160 --> 01:07:58,160
Speaker 1: to give. This multi billion dollar corporation has plenty to

1442
01:07:58,160 --> 01:08:00,640
Speaker 1: give American workers. They just don't want you, said Teamsters

1443
01:08:00,640 --> 01:08:03,680
Speaker 1: General President Sean O'Brien. UPS had a choice to make,

1444
01:08:03,720 --> 01:08:06,439
Speaker 1: and they have clearly chosen to go down the wrong road.

1445
01:08:06,480 --> 01:08:08,720
Speaker 1: I think we have one last piece of the thread

1446
01:08:08,880 --> 01:08:10,320
Speaker 1: that we can read here for you, they say. The

1447
01:08:10,360 --> 01:08:12,919
Speaker 1: UPS Teamsters contract covering more than three hundred and forty

1448
01:08:13,040 --> 01:08:16,240
Speaker 1: thousand full in part time workers expires July thirty one,

1449
01:08:16,360 --> 01:08:19,040
Speaker 1: so we're coming down to the wire here. No additional

1450
01:08:19,080 --> 01:08:24,240
Speaker 1: negotiations are scheduled. The Teamsters have repeatedly made clear UPS

1451
01:08:24,240 --> 01:08:27,080
Speaker 1: members will not work beyond the expiration of the current contract.

1452
01:08:27,280 --> 01:08:27,839
Speaker 5: In June.

1453
01:08:28,080 --> 01:08:31,240
Speaker 1: Rank and file UPS Teamsters authorized a strike by an

1454
01:08:31,280 --> 01:08:36,000
Speaker 1: overwhelming ninety seven percent. Now some of the context here

1455
01:08:36,320 --> 01:08:42,160
Speaker 1: is the last contract that Teamsters signed with UPS was

1456
01:08:42,600 --> 01:08:46,439
Speaker 1: really concessionary, so it created a two tier wage system,

1457
01:08:46,920 --> 01:08:49,880
Speaker 1: all kinds of problems with it. Rank and file workers

1458
01:08:49,960 --> 01:08:54,320
Speaker 1: actually voted it down, and leadership at the time went

1459
01:08:54,360 --> 01:08:56,519
Speaker 1: over their heads and said, now we're going to take

1460
01:08:56,520 --> 01:09:01,080
Speaker 1: this contract anyway. Sean O'Brien, the new General President, was

1461
01:09:01,160 --> 01:09:05,959
Speaker 1: elected on a promise to be more aggressive, more militant,

1462
01:09:06,240 --> 01:09:09,920
Speaker 1: and more adequately reflect the needs and desires of rank

1463
01:09:09,960 --> 01:09:14,519
Speaker 1: and file workers in these varied negotiations. We also know

1464
01:09:14,680 --> 01:09:18,840
Speaker 1: that they have already extracted some concessions out of this deal.

1465
01:09:19,560 --> 01:09:23,040
Speaker 1: One thing that we reported on here is huge problem

1466
01:09:23,200 --> 01:09:27,439
Speaker 1: for delivery workers UPS workers, parcel delivery workers in general,

1467
01:09:27,840 --> 01:09:31,560
Speaker 1: is heat and UPS trucks have never had air conditioning.

1468
01:09:31,720 --> 01:09:33,719
Speaker 1: And we're talking about you know, you're in the summer

1469
01:09:33,720 --> 01:09:35,599
Speaker 1: in Arizona. You're going in the back of that thing.

1470
01:09:35,800 --> 01:09:38,400
Speaker 1: They're showing temperature readings over one hundred and twenty degrees.

1471
01:09:38,600 --> 01:09:41,360
Speaker 1: You actually had a UPS worker die because of heat

1472
01:09:41,400 --> 01:09:45,240
Speaker 1: related injuries. You've had heat exhaustion, major problems. So they

1473
01:09:45,280 --> 01:09:48,519
Speaker 1: were able to secure some air conditioning at least in

1474
01:09:48,600 --> 01:09:50,000
Speaker 1: new trucks, new fan.

1475
01:09:49,920 --> 01:09:51,640
Speaker 5: Installs, so that was reported out.

1476
01:09:52,200 --> 01:09:55,280
Speaker 1: They also were able to do a way we know

1477
01:09:55,640 --> 01:09:59,559
Speaker 1: with that two tier wage system. That is a huge

1478
01:09:59,560 --> 01:10:01,639
Speaker 1: deal because the whole reason that they try to get

1479
01:10:01,640 --> 01:10:03,800
Speaker 1: these two tier wage systems in places to break the

1480
01:10:03,840 --> 01:10:07,880
Speaker 1: solidarity of the workers. So getting that was a huge deal. However,

1481
01:10:08,640 --> 01:10:12,200
Speaker 1: it appears that UPS was still not willing to go

1482
01:10:12,280 --> 01:10:17,599
Speaker 1: far enough to provide adequate wages, adequate benefits for what

1483
01:10:18,000 --> 01:10:22,120
Speaker 1: these Teamsters workers actually wanted out of the negotiation. So

1484
01:10:22,479 --> 01:10:24,559
Speaker 1: now you're in a place where it's kind of a

1485
01:10:24,560 --> 01:10:27,160
Speaker 1: staring contest and a game of chick in and we'll

1486
01:10:27,160 --> 01:10:30,040
Speaker 1: see who if anyone blinks, or whether we are actually

1487
01:10:30,120 --> 01:10:34,080
Speaker 1: headed to this huge, very consequential strike that could come

1488
01:10:34,120 --> 01:10:34,960
Speaker 1: at the end of this month.

1489
01:10:35,000 --> 01:10:37,160
Speaker 4: And I think the teamsters are acting as they are

1490
01:10:37,240 --> 01:10:39,320
Speaker 4: because they have an enormous amount of leverage right now.

1491
01:10:39,360 --> 01:10:41,639
Speaker 4: So UPS says it covers about or it delivers about

1492
01:10:41,680 --> 01:10:45,000
Speaker 4: six percent of the GDP in the United States of America.

1493
01:10:45,040 --> 01:10:48,360
Speaker 4: And I'm reading from CNN here, so they're reflecting on

1494
01:10:48,400 --> 01:10:50,439
Speaker 4: that UPS strike back in nineteen ninety seven.

1495
01:10:50,479 --> 01:10:52,000
Speaker 3: Obviously, this would be the biggest strike.

1496
01:10:51,760 --> 01:10:54,400
Speaker 4: As you said, since nineteen fifty nine, the company was

1497
01:10:54,400 --> 01:10:56,840
Speaker 4: able to recapture ninety percent of its business once that

1498
01:10:56,920 --> 01:10:59,320
Speaker 4: strike ended. Back in ninety seven, he said it might

1499
01:10:59,360 --> 01:11:01,479
Speaker 4: be able to own to recover seventy percent of its

1500
01:11:01,479 --> 01:11:03,400
Speaker 4: business in a strike this time because of a greater

1501
01:11:03,600 --> 01:11:07,160
Speaker 4: number of alternatives. FedEx did not have a lower cost

1502
01:11:07,240 --> 01:11:10,000
Speaker 4: ground service in nineteen ninety seven, and the postal service

1503
01:11:10,320 --> 01:11:13,160
Speaker 4: was not set up to handle as many package deliveries. Amazon,

1504
01:11:13,240 --> 01:11:15,080
Speaker 4: of course, also has its own delivery service.

1505
01:11:15,120 --> 01:11:17,240
Speaker 3: Now. So when you see I think.

1506
01:11:17,080 --> 01:11:20,559
Speaker 4: You know the UPS has said, actually it's the team

1507
01:11:20,600 --> 01:11:22,639
Speaker 4: serters that have walked away from the negotiation, et cetera,

1508
01:11:22,680 --> 01:11:25,200
Speaker 4: et cetera. But even just looking at that thread, the

1509
01:11:25,320 --> 01:11:28,680
Speaker 4: union is really throwing its weight around here, yea. And

1510
01:11:28,760 --> 01:11:31,400
Speaker 4: I think that goes directly to the extreme amount of

1511
01:11:31,439 --> 01:11:33,519
Speaker 4: leverage that they have. UPS has had a lot of

1512
01:11:33,520 --> 01:11:36,920
Speaker 4: profits that they're asking for more of those to be

1513
01:11:36,920 --> 01:11:37,920
Speaker 4: passed down to workers.

1514
01:11:38,040 --> 01:11:39,519
Speaker 3: Perfectly reasonable thing to ask.

1515
01:11:39,840 --> 01:11:42,679
Speaker 4: And again, when you have six percent of the GDP,

1516
01:11:42,800 --> 01:11:47,120
Speaker 4: way more competition with FedEx, with Amazon, actually now the

1517
01:11:47,160 --> 01:11:51,679
Speaker 4: Postal Service, good luck letting this go into a strike position,

1518
01:11:51,720 --> 01:11:55,360
Speaker 4: because it's immediately catastrophic It's not that there is no

1519
01:11:55,640 --> 01:11:57,200
Speaker 4: like gray area here.

1520
01:11:57,240 --> 01:11:58,000
Speaker 3: It's black and white.

1521
01:11:58,000 --> 01:12:00,759
Speaker 4: It will immediately in one day be catastrophe for UPS.

1522
01:12:00,920 --> 01:12:03,280
Speaker 4: They know that, and the union knows that. And this

1523
01:12:03,439 --> 01:12:05,120
Speaker 4: is going very well, i would say, for the union

1524
01:12:05,120 --> 01:12:05,639
Speaker 4: at this point.

1525
01:12:05,720 --> 01:12:08,759
Speaker 1: And not only that, So you're one hundred percent correct

1526
01:12:08,800 --> 01:12:12,519
Speaker 1: on that aspect of leverage. You also have a National

1527
01:12:12,560 --> 01:12:16,000
Speaker 1: Labor Relations Board under the Biden administration that is, you know,

1528
01:12:16,080 --> 01:12:19,360
Speaker 1: much more worker friendly than the Trump administration. The Republican

1529
01:12:19,400 --> 01:12:21,759
Speaker 1: administration is always put in like you know, union busting

1530
01:12:21,800 --> 01:12:23,439
Speaker 1: lawyers some on the national labor relations boards.

1531
01:12:23,479 --> 01:12:25,280
Speaker 5: You have a national labor relations board that is likely

1532
01:12:25,280 --> 01:12:26,679
Speaker 5: to be in your quarter. That's critical.

1533
01:12:27,280 --> 01:12:32,040
Speaker 1: You have record breaking profits for UPS and other companies,

1534
01:12:32,120 --> 01:12:34,200
Speaker 1: so they can't cry poor, they can't pretell oh, we

1535
01:12:34,240 --> 01:12:35,680
Speaker 1: just can't do it. No, you can do it, like

1536
01:12:35,760 --> 01:12:38,200
Speaker 1: it's really clear you could do it. So you've got that.

1537
01:12:38,840 --> 01:12:41,559
Speaker 1: You have a tight labor market where you know, there's

1538
01:12:41,600 --> 01:12:44,240
Speaker 1: a lot of issues inflation eating into wages. People don't

1539
01:12:44,240 --> 01:12:46,559
Speaker 1: feel like they're doing that well, but there are a

1540
01:12:46,560 --> 01:12:49,000
Speaker 1: lot of jobs. Those jobs may not be good jobs,

1541
01:12:49,080 --> 01:12:51,559
Speaker 1: but there are a lot of jobs. And the fact

1542
01:12:51,600 --> 01:12:54,080
Speaker 1: that you have a tight labor market also helps to

1543
01:12:54,160 --> 01:12:57,280
Speaker 1: provide them with some leverage. And then of course, if

1544
01:12:57,320 --> 01:13:00,400
Speaker 1: you're Shot O'Brien and you were literally elected to this

1545
01:13:00,479 --> 01:13:03,200
Speaker 1: position on a mandate to take it to the wall

1546
01:13:03,360 --> 01:13:07,679
Speaker 1: and to be militant and be aggressive in these negotiations, Yeah,

1547
01:13:07,720 --> 01:13:09,960
Speaker 1: they feel like they have some room to work. And

1548
01:13:10,280 --> 01:13:12,280
Speaker 1: again on just reiterate last thing I'll say on this

1549
01:13:12,479 --> 01:13:15,840
Speaker 1: is that this matters obviously for these workers, and this

1550
01:13:15,920 --> 01:13:17,799
Speaker 1: is a lot of people, so that matters a lot.

1551
01:13:18,000 --> 01:13:21,320
Speaker 5: But you know, when the labor movement was at.

1552
01:13:21,200 --> 01:13:23,320
Speaker 1: Its height and at its peak, and hopefully what it

1553
01:13:23,320 --> 01:13:25,080
Speaker 1: could get back to. And I think why this would

1554
01:13:25,120 --> 01:13:28,000
Speaker 1: be impactful is because Number One shows to other workers like,

1555
01:13:28,040 --> 01:13:29,799
Speaker 1: this is why you want to be part of a union,

1556
01:13:29,880 --> 01:13:33,639
Speaker 1: because if you don't have this solidarity in this collective bargaining,

1557
01:13:33,920 --> 01:13:36,599
Speaker 1: you're not getting your air conditions, you're not getting your

1558
01:13:37,000 --> 01:13:40,519
Speaker 1: time paid, time off, you're you know, you're not getting

1559
01:13:40,640 --> 01:13:43,200
Speaker 1: increases in wages. You're getting these two you have no

1560
01:13:43,320 --> 01:13:46,320
Speaker 1: recourse basically, and then you also have this is going

1561
01:13:46,360 --> 01:13:50,519
Speaker 1: to cause competition among the other parcel carriers and among

1562
01:13:50,680 --> 01:13:52,880
Speaker 1: you know, the broader workforce. They're sort of lifting the

1563
01:13:52,880 --> 01:13:55,799
Speaker 1: floor for everyone so that's why this fight really matters.

1564
01:13:55,840 --> 01:13:57,479
Speaker 1: So we'll make sure and keep an eye on it.

1565
01:13:57,760 --> 01:14:00,840
Speaker 3: Next cocaine in the White House. I feel like Ron

1566
01:14:00,880 --> 01:14:03,840
Speaker 3: Burgundy right now, it's true. You've probably heard the.

1567
01:14:03,760 --> 01:14:06,120
Speaker 4: Story by now that there was cocaine found in the

1568
01:14:06,120 --> 01:14:09,639
Speaker 4: White House, actually in the West Wing on Sunday. Now

1569
01:14:09,680 --> 01:14:11,839
Speaker 4: we can throw this tear sheet up. Is the story

1570
01:14:12,080 --> 01:14:15,880
Speaker 4: continues to get complicated from Politico Dan Littman reporting here,

1571
01:14:16,000 --> 01:14:18,960
Speaker 4: quote law enforcement officials confirmed on Wednesday that cocaine was

1572
01:14:18,960 --> 01:14:20,640
Speaker 4: found at the White House over the weekend. So the

1573
01:14:20,680 --> 01:14:24,080
Speaker 4: confirmation came on Wednesday, But one official familiar with the

1574
01:14:24,120 --> 01:14:27,560
Speaker 4: investigation cautioned that the source of the drug was unlikely

1575
01:14:27,600 --> 01:14:30,120
Speaker 4: to be determined given that it was discovered in a

1576
01:14:30,240 --> 01:14:33,040
Speaker 4: highly trafficked area of the West Wing. Now you may

1577
01:14:33,080 --> 01:14:36,760
Speaker 4: think that sounds counterintuitive, because surely any highly trafficked area

1578
01:14:36,800 --> 01:14:39,040
Speaker 4: of the West Wing would also have a.

1579
01:14:39,040 --> 01:14:40,240
Speaker 3: Lot of surveillance.

1580
01:14:40,320 --> 01:14:45,000
Speaker 4: But no, this anonymous law enforcement official says. They said,

1581
01:14:45,080 --> 01:14:47,280
Speaker 4: quote it's going to be very difficult for us to

1582
01:14:47,320 --> 01:14:51,240
Speaker 4: do that because of where it was. Again, Politico says

1583
01:14:51,280 --> 01:14:53,200
Speaker 4: that it was found in a covey area. A quote

1584
01:14:53,240 --> 01:14:55,360
Speaker 4: small amount of cocaine was found in a covey area

1585
01:14:55,400 --> 01:14:58,880
Speaker 4: for storing electronics within the West exec basement entryway into

1586
01:14:58,960 --> 01:15:01,519
Speaker 4: the West Wing, where many people have authorized access, including

1587
01:15:01,560 --> 01:15:05,679
Speaker 4: staff or visitors coming in for West Wing tours. Quote

1588
01:15:05,680 --> 01:15:07,680
Speaker 4: again from the senior law enforcement official or the law

1589
01:15:07,720 --> 01:15:11,200
Speaker 4: enforcement official. Even if there were surveillance cameras, unless you

1590
01:15:11,240 --> 01:15:14,160
Speaker 4: were waving in around, it may not have been caught.

1591
01:15:14,280 --> 01:15:17,240
Speaker 4: It's a bit of a thoroughfare. People walk by there

1592
01:15:17,439 --> 01:15:18,160
Speaker 4: all the time.

1593
01:15:18,280 --> 01:15:18,400
Speaker 7: Now.

1594
01:15:18,439 --> 01:15:21,800
Speaker 4: White House Press Secretary Karine Jean Pierre responded to reporters

1595
01:15:21,920 --> 01:15:23,680
Speaker 4: questions about this yesterday.

1596
01:15:23,760 --> 01:15:25,519
Speaker 3: She said, quote, let's let.

1597
01:15:25,360 --> 01:15:27,720
Speaker 4: The Secret Service do their job, which we believe and

1598
01:15:27,800 --> 01:15:29,519
Speaker 4: have all the confidence that they will get to the

1599
01:15:29,520 --> 01:15:32,760
Speaker 4: bottom of this episode. Okay, So the White House is

1600
01:15:32,800 --> 01:15:37,840
Speaker 4: also saying the Biden family was not in the White House.

1601
01:15:37,960 --> 01:15:41,200
Speaker 3: They were. They left Friday and returned Tuesday.

1602
01:15:41,240 --> 01:15:43,719
Speaker 4: So if the cocaine was found Sunday, again, I feel

1603
01:15:43,760 --> 01:15:46,120
Speaker 4: like I'm playing maybe a game of clue that it

1604
01:15:46,160 --> 01:15:49,200
Speaker 4: was Hunter in the library with the whatever.

1605
01:15:49,000 --> 01:15:50,759
Speaker 5: The bag of cocaine, with the bag of cocaine.

1606
01:15:50,880 --> 01:15:53,000
Speaker 4: But actually that's one of the things that's interesting about

1607
01:15:53,000 --> 01:15:56,360
Speaker 4: this is at least Miranda Divine in the New York

1608
01:15:56,400 --> 01:15:59,240
Speaker 4: Post has reported that it's rumored Hunter Biden this was

1609
01:15:59,280 --> 01:16:00,880
Speaker 4: at least as like a couple of weeks ago, was

1610
01:16:00,920 --> 01:16:03,519
Speaker 4: living in the White House, perhaps to dodge papers in

1611
01:16:03,560 --> 01:16:07,040
Speaker 4: his child support case, which has since been settled. So

1612
01:16:07,200 --> 01:16:08,880
Speaker 4: and Hunter Biden has been a camp David with the

1613
01:16:08,920 --> 01:16:11,519
Speaker 4: President recently, has been traveling within them recently, has been

1614
01:16:11,560 --> 01:16:12,679
Speaker 4: at state dinners recently.

1615
01:16:12,880 --> 01:16:13,360
Speaker 3: So there's a.

1616
01:16:13,320 --> 01:16:15,920
Speaker 4: Genuine question as to whether Hunter Biden, who we know

1617
01:16:16,280 --> 01:16:20,240
Speaker 4: has sadly suffered from serious substance abuse issues, is living

1618
01:16:20,240 --> 01:16:21,960
Speaker 4: in the White House and the cocaine belongs to him.

1619
01:16:22,000 --> 01:16:24,639
Speaker 4: I think also Naomi Biden and her husband are living

1620
01:16:24,720 --> 01:16:26,599
Speaker 4: in the White House. Obviously there's a lot of staff

1621
01:16:26,600 --> 01:16:28,559
Speaker 4: and guests that are coming in and out.

1622
01:16:29,080 --> 01:16:32,080
Speaker 3: I do, however, think the idea that.

1623
01:16:32,280 --> 01:16:36,080
Speaker 4: Secret Service or that a law enforcement official anonymously got

1624
01:16:36,200 --> 01:16:39,800
Speaker 4: cover to speak to Politico and say listen, to sort

1625
01:16:39,800 --> 01:16:42,160
Speaker 4: of lay the groundwork for nobody being caught on this

1626
01:16:42,760 --> 01:16:46,759
Speaker 4: is rather hilarious because I guarantee you like that sounds

1627
01:16:46,760 --> 01:16:48,960
Speaker 4: to me very very strategic to say listen.

1628
01:16:49,200 --> 01:16:50,640
Speaker 3: It just doesn't make any sense. We're not gonna be

1629
01:16:50,640 --> 01:16:51,080
Speaker 3: able to find it.

1630
01:16:51,240 --> 01:16:53,760
Speaker 4: That excuse makes no sense because there are cameras all

1631
01:16:53,840 --> 01:16:55,960
Speaker 4: over the West Wing, even in the visitor areas.

1632
01:16:56,080 --> 01:16:57,160
Speaker 3: There are cameras everywhere.

1633
01:16:57,280 --> 01:16:57,599
Speaker 5: Yeah.

1634
01:16:57,640 --> 01:16:59,720
Speaker 1: Well, as someone who supports the legalization of drugs, I

1635
01:16:59,720 --> 01:17:02,240
Speaker 1: sup no one being caught and turned in for this

1636
01:17:02,439 --> 01:17:03,880
Speaker 1: except the.

1637
01:17:04,080 --> 01:17:08,000
Speaker 3: Has also like not hired people, we just legal in DC. Well,

1638
01:17:08,040 --> 01:17:08,599
Speaker 3: that is true.

1639
01:17:08,640 --> 01:17:11,479
Speaker 1: They are total hypocrites on the issue, aren't they. I mean,

1640
01:17:11,600 --> 01:17:13,840
Speaker 1: and I've always thought this about Joe Biden is like,

1641
01:17:14,040 --> 01:17:16,479
Speaker 1: you know, your own son struggles with this, and you're

1642
01:17:16,560 --> 01:17:19,559
Speaker 1: still like this war on drugs, dude, it's disgraceful one

1643
01:17:19,600 --> 01:17:21,960
Speaker 1: hundred percent. So they say the small amount of cocaine

1644
01:17:22,000 --> 01:17:25,479
Speaker 1: is found in a cubby area for storing electronics within

1645
01:17:25,600 --> 01:17:28,240
Speaker 1: the West exec basement entryway into the West Wing, where

1646
01:17:28,240 --> 01:17:31,160
Speaker 1: many people have authorized access, including staff or visitors coming

1647
01:17:31,160 --> 01:17:33,160
Speaker 1: in for West Wing tours. So I guess this is

1648
01:17:33,200 --> 01:17:35,040
Speaker 1: an area where, like you know, people are coming in

1649
01:17:35,080 --> 01:17:38,040
Speaker 1: through tours, they go through this area, they stick stuff

1650
01:17:38,040 --> 01:17:40,320
Speaker 1: in the cubby. I don't know, haven't really spent any

1651
01:17:40,360 --> 01:17:41,519
Speaker 1: time in the White House, so I don't know how

1652
01:17:41,520 --> 01:17:44,800
Speaker 1: all this works. It's sort of the story kind of

1653
01:17:44,800 --> 01:17:46,960
Speaker 1: sent me on a mental journey though that I started.

1654
01:17:47,000 --> 01:17:50,360
Speaker 1: I seriously because I started wondering, like, I wonder how

1655
01:17:50,360 --> 01:17:52,439
Speaker 1: often there is cocaine in the White House, Like I

1656
01:17:52,479 --> 01:17:56,200
Speaker 1: wonder how often various residents of the White House are,

1657
01:17:56,920 --> 01:17:59,720
Speaker 1: you know, doing various illicit drugs. And then it got

1658
01:17:59,760 --> 01:18:02,040
Speaker 1: me thinking about Joe Biden and how he could use

1659
01:18:02,080 --> 01:18:03,840
Speaker 1: a little bit of a pick me up and maybe

1660
01:18:03,840 --> 01:18:05,280
Speaker 1: it wouldn't be the worst thing in the world. It

1661
01:18:05,320 --> 01:18:07,559
Speaker 1: was the president he was actually protaking and had like

1662
01:18:07,560 --> 01:18:08,559
Speaker 1: maybe that would help him.

1663
01:18:08,600 --> 01:18:10,280
Speaker 3: It's like a dive bag with like a White House

1664
01:18:10,280 --> 01:18:10,840
Speaker 3: steal on it.

1665
01:18:11,120 --> 01:18:13,080
Speaker 5: I mean, listen, how many years old is he?

1666
01:18:13,320 --> 01:18:15,439
Speaker 1: Like, if you're not going to live a little right,

1667
01:18:15,840 --> 01:18:18,120
Speaker 1: maybe the problem is that there's not enough cocaine in

1668
01:18:18,120 --> 01:18:19,719
Speaker 1: the White House, Emily, That's what I'm saying.

1669
01:18:19,800 --> 01:18:23,840
Speaker 3: Whoa that's gonna take? That's a galaxy brain.

1670
01:18:23,960 --> 01:18:25,800
Speaker 4: Well, the other thing I thought about was the mid

1671
01:18:25,840 --> 01:18:28,200
Speaker 4: May break in at Jake Sullivan's house. So the National

1672
01:18:28,200 --> 01:18:32,439
Speaker 4: Security Advisor, Jake Sullivan, who had I believe, like twenty

1673
01:18:32,479 --> 01:18:36,800
Speaker 4: four hour security production protection, including at his home, a

1674
01:18:36,880 --> 01:18:41,280
Speaker 4: drunk dude got into his house past the security agents

1675
01:18:41,320 --> 01:18:46,400
Speaker 4: that were outside, and basically nobody knew how that happened.

1676
01:18:46,479 --> 01:18:49,720
Speaker 3: And so I again like Listen, when.

1677
01:18:50,240 --> 01:18:54,840
Speaker 4: You have issues like this, if you shouldn't probably be

1678
01:18:54,880 --> 01:18:56,880
Speaker 4: able to bring cocaine into the White House. If the

1679
01:18:56,880 --> 01:18:58,680
Speaker 4: White House says you're not supposed to bring cocaine to

1680
01:18:58,720 --> 01:19:00,280
Speaker 4: the White House, right, that means they're failing at their

1681
01:19:00,280 --> 01:19:01,520
Speaker 4: own security protocols.

1682
01:19:01,880 --> 01:19:04,280
Speaker 3: And I don't think that's great like all around.

1683
01:19:04,400 --> 01:19:06,320
Speaker 4: Like, I don't really care about there being a small

1684
01:19:06,320 --> 01:19:09,080
Speaker 4: amount of cocaine in the White House, but if it's

1685
01:19:09,080 --> 01:19:13,040
Speaker 4: a pattern of like security failures, there's like a basic

1686
01:19:13,120 --> 01:19:15,559
Speaker 4: question of competence. I don't think anybody in the United

1687
01:19:15,600 --> 01:19:17,600
Speaker 4: States of America wants to see something happen to the

1688
01:19:17,720 --> 01:19:21,200
Speaker 4: NSA or to the President or to anybody in the

1689
01:19:21,200 --> 01:19:24,400
Speaker 4: White House. And that's like bad period. I mean, it's

1690
01:19:24,400 --> 01:19:26,519
Speaker 4: bad for the individual and the family's involved. It's also

1691
01:19:26,520 --> 01:19:28,760
Speaker 4: bad for the country. It makes us look like people

1692
01:19:28,800 --> 01:19:32,880
Speaker 4: who can't perform basic functions, which we increasingly know is true.

1693
01:19:32,960 --> 01:19:34,880
Speaker 4: And so if this is part of a pattern of

1694
01:19:34,880 --> 01:19:38,280
Speaker 4: security breaches on the part of Secret Service, that's pretty

1695
01:19:38,280 --> 01:19:39,000
Speaker 4: bad for Secret Service.

1696
01:19:39,040 --> 01:19:41,200
Speaker 1: Secret Services had a lot of scandals in recent years

1697
01:19:41,200 --> 01:19:42,800
Speaker 1: as well. I mean, I think that those points are

1698
01:19:42,800 --> 01:19:45,559
Speaker 1: fair because when this first was reported, they didn't.

1699
01:19:45,360 --> 01:19:46,280
Speaker 5: Know it was cocaine.

1700
01:19:46,600 --> 01:19:48,880
Speaker 1: You know, They're like, oh, a powdery white substance was found,

1701
01:19:48,960 --> 01:19:52,240
Speaker 1: and immediately you're like, oh, like anthrax, like right, like

1702
01:19:52,360 --> 01:19:55,120
Speaker 1: what's going on here? So the fact that you know,

1703
01:19:55,200 --> 01:19:58,160
Speaker 1: can willly nearly like bring your drugs into the White

1704
01:19:58,200 --> 01:20:00,720
Speaker 1: House apparently, and it seems like a somewhat of a

1705
01:20:00,760 --> 01:20:01,920
Speaker 1: security risk there.

1706
01:20:01,800 --> 01:20:03,679
Speaker 3: When they say they're trying to prevent you from doing.

1707
01:20:03,600 --> 01:20:05,480
Speaker 5: It, right, Yes, exactly.

1708
01:20:05,560 --> 01:20:08,000
Speaker 1: So I mean I do, like, I just want to

1709
01:20:08,000 --> 01:20:08,800
Speaker 1: know the backstory.

1710
01:20:08,880 --> 01:20:09,720
Speaker 5: I do actually want to.

1711
01:20:09,760 --> 01:20:11,599
Speaker 1: I don't want anybody to get in trouble, you know,

1712
01:20:11,760 --> 01:20:13,479
Speaker 1: I don't want them to be like thrown in prison

1713
01:20:13,520 --> 01:20:16,519
Speaker 1: for their infraction against our stupid drug laws. But I

1714
01:20:16,560 --> 01:20:18,639
Speaker 1: do want to know the backstory of how it ended

1715
01:20:18,680 --> 01:20:21,240
Speaker 1: up there, Like whose was it, why did they bring it?

1716
01:20:21,560 --> 01:20:23,800
Speaker 1: How did they get left behind? Did they notice it

1717
01:20:23,840 --> 01:20:25,639
Speaker 1: was missing? Did they know it was in their bag?

1718
01:20:25,960 --> 01:20:26,599
Speaker 3: You know what I mean?

1719
01:20:26,720 --> 01:20:29,080
Speaker 5: Like was it intentional? I just I do want to

1720
01:20:29,120 --> 01:20:29,759
Speaker 5: know the details.

1721
01:20:29,800 --> 01:20:33,360
Speaker 1: I find it very creatively interesting to imagine the sequence

1722
01:20:33,360 --> 01:20:34,679
Speaker 1: of events that led to this situation.

1723
01:20:34,760 --> 01:20:36,280
Speaker 4: Maybe it could be really basic too, because I think

1724
01:20:36,320 --> 01:20:39,120
Speaker 4: like both Snoop Dogg and Tommy Chong and maybe Willie

1725
01:20:39,160 --> 01:20:41,639
Speaker 4: Nelson's wife think this was undo. The Carner administration said

1726
01:20:41,640 --> 01:20:43,240
Speaker 4: that they've smoked weed in the White House, Like there

1727
01:20:43,240 --> 01:20:44,960
Speaker 4: are people many people who have said that they've smoked

1728
01:20:45,000 --> 01:20:46,800
Speaker 4: weed in a handful of people who say they've smoked

1729
01:20:46,840 --> 01:20:49,040
Speaker 4: weed in the White House. So obviously there's there's a

1730
01:20:49,120 --> 01:20:52,679
Speaker 4: way for people to get illicit substances into the White House,

1731
01:20:53,040 --> 01:20:55,400
Speaker 4: especially if they're sort of privileged, if they're a very

1732
01:20:55,400 --> 01:20:56,200
Speaker 4: important person of.

1733
01:20:56,280 --> 01:20:58,880
Speaker 1: VIPA, Yeah, they're not getting the full pat down or whatever.

1734
01:20:59,240 --> 01:21:02,400
Speaker 4: Maybe and if that's the situation here, I also do

1735
01:21:02,520 --> 01:21:04,080
Speaker 4: think there can be a lot of people who have

1736
01:21:04,160 --> 01:21:07,320
Speaker 4: relatives like locked up for quote small amounts of cocaine,

1737
01:21:07,920 --> 01:21:11,080
Speaker 4: who the Biden administration pays zero attention to, despite the

1738
01:21:11,080 --> 01:21:13,120
Speaker 4: fact that Hunter Biden himself has suffered with this and

1739
01:21:13,160 --> 01:21:16,320
Speaker 4: has not been prosecuted on different drug charges. The other

1740
01:21:16,360 --> 01:21:18,320
Speaker 4: reason that they might be laying the groundwork is that

1741
01:21:18,360 --> 01:21:20,080
Speaker 4: there's a real question as to whether, if it is

1742
01:21:20,160 --> 01:21:23,880
Speaker 4: Hunter Biden's his settlement, his recent settlement gets upended because

1743
01:21:23,880 --> 01:21:25,960
Speaker 4: he has a drug offense or a recent drug offense.

1744
01:21:26,000 --> 01:21:28,479
Speaker 4: So there are legitimate reasons that you could have an

1745
01:21:28,479 --> 01:21:31,439
Speaker 4: anonymous law enforcement official who's you know, speaking in the

1746
01:21:31,520 --> 01:21:34,679
Speaker 4: present tense and referring to us as like secret service,

1747
01:21:34,760 --> 01:21:38,000
Speaker 4: apparently implicitly in the Politico article, going out and talking

1748
01:21:38,000 --> 01:21:40,800
Speaker 4: to the press and saying these things that could be

1749
01:21:41,240 --> 01:21:44,880
Speaker 4: really shady and nefarious behavior on part of the White House.

1750
01:21:45,000 --> 01:21:47,479
Speaker 3: We don't know that it could be the case, and

1751
01:21:47,520 --> 01:21:47,880
Speaker 3: I do.

1752
01:21:47,800 --> 01:21:49,599
Speaker 4: Think there are a whole lot of people that if

1753
01:21:49,680 --> 01:21:52,120
Speaker 4: this belongs to someone in the Biden family or one

1754
01:21:52,120 --> 01:21:54,240
Speaker 4: of their rich friends, people are going.

1755
01:21:54,200 --> 01:21:54,680
Speaker 3: To want to know.

1756
01:21:55,240 --> 01:21:56,719
Speaker 4: And I just don't think we're going to get answers

1757
01:21:56,760 --> 01:21:58,479
Speaker 4: to it, despite the fact that, give me a break,

1758
01:21:58,479 --> 01:22:00,599
Speaker 4: you found the cocaine in a very particular area.

1759
01:22:00,800 --> 01:22:02,400
Speaker 3: You have cameras focused on that area.

1760
01:22:02,600 --> 01:22:04,240
Speaker 4: You can look at the people who've gone past that

1761
01:22:04,280 --> 01:22:06,760
Speaker 4: area taking stuff out of their bags, things falling out

1762
01:22:06,800 --> 01:22:09,839
Speaker 4: of their bags. I just think that entire excuse is nonsense,

1763
01:22:09,880 --> 01:22:12,800
Speaker 4: and it tells me that they know and that they're

1764
01:22:12,800 --> 01:22:13,800
Speaker 4: protecting something else.

1765
01:22:13,960 --> 01:22:17,480
Speaker 1: I just want everybody to get the forgiveness and forbearance

1766
01:22:17,479 --> 01:22:19,960
Speaker 1: that Hunter Biden has done with regard to his drug problems.

1767
01:22:20,040 --> 01:22:24,400
Speaker 3: That's it, Crystal, What have you got for us?

1768
01:22:24,439 --> 01:22:27,200
Speaker 1: Shortly after the Supreme Court issued their rulings, striking down

1769
01:22:27,240 --> 01:22:30,719
Speaker 1: affirmative action in college admissions. A frequently viral liberal tweeter

1770
01:22:30,800 --> 01:22:34,920
Speaker 1: named Erica marsh offered up this very eyebrow raising analysis quote,

1771
01:22:35,120 --> 01:22:38,160
Speaker 1: Today's Supreme Court decision is a direct attack on black people.

1772
01:22:38,680 --> 01:22:41,760
Speaker 1: No black person will be able to succeed in a

1773
01:22:41,880 --> 01:22:45,160
Speaker 1: merit based system, which is exactly why firmative action based

1774
01:22:45,160 --> 01:22:49,080
Speaker 1: programs were needed. Today's decision is a travesty. No black

1775
01:22:49,120 --> 01:22:52,719
Speaker 1: person can succeed on merit. Yike's talk about the definition

1776
01:22:52,800 --> 01:22:55,479
Speaker 1: of the bigotry of low expectations. The tweet was almost

1777
01:22:55,600 --> 01:22:59,559
Speaker 1: perfectly calibrated to validate conservative arguments that liberals are the

1778
01:22:59,640 --> 01:23:02,600
Speaker 1: real racists, looking at minorities as a faithless blob in

1779
01:23:02,640 --> 01:23:05,040
Speaker 1: need of charity to suage their own white liberal guilt.

1780
01:23:05,360 --> 01:23:08,240
Speaker 1: And so naturally the tweet took off was quote tweeted

1781
01:23:08,280 --> 01:23:11,960
Speaker 1: tens of thousands of times, viewed over twenty seven million times.

1782
01:23:12,400 --> 01:23:15,720
Speaker 1: Prominent Republicans people like Matt Gates stoked this fire, and

1783
01:23:15,760 --> 01:23:17,519
Speaker 1: for some group of people who saw the tweet and

1784
01:23:17,680 --> 01:23:21,759
Speaker 1: undoubtedly served to harden their minds, beliefs about what liberals

1785
01:23:21,920 --> 01:23:25,599
Speaker 1: really think, who they really are, came a minor building

1786
01:23:25,640 --> 01:23:28,439
Speaker 1: block and their little mental caricature of Democrats or liberals

1787
01:23:28,520 --> 01:23:30,720
Speaker 1: or the left that is constantly being chiseled out by

1788
01:23:30,720 --> 01:23:33,439
Speaker 1: partisan media and these sorts of viral social media posts.

1789
01:23:34,080 --> 01:23:36,439
Speaker 1: But in a plot twist that should surprise no one

1790
01:23:36,520 --> 01:23:39,679
Speaker 1: in our current era of KFA pretend politics, the account

1791
01:23:40,000 --> 01:23:43,080
Speaker 1: probably a fake Washington posted a little investigation of this

1792
01:23:43,240 --> 01:23:45,960
Speaker 1: Erica Marsh character and found that she does not appear

1793
01:23:46,000 --> 01:23:49,639
Speaker 1: to actually exist. The quote proud democrat in Washington, as

1794
01:23:49,640 --> 01:23:52,000
Speaker 1: she described herself on Twitter, doesn't show up in any

1795
01:23:52,040 --> 01:23:55,320
Speaker 1: local phone or voting records. The Biden presidential campaign, where

1796
01:23:55,320 --> 01:23:57,519
Speaker 1: she said she worked as a field organizer, has no

1797
01:23:57,640 --> 01:24:00,439
Speaker 1: record of her. Neither does the Obama Foundation, where she

1798
01:24:00,479 --> 01:24:04,160
Speaker 1: claimed to have volunteered. The photos that she used appeared

1799
01:24:04,200 --> 01:24:06,760
Speaker 1: to be digitally altered. She refused to respond to the

1800
01:24:06,760 --> 01:24:09,519
Speaker 1: post or provide any evidence of her existence as a

1801
01:24:09,560 --> 01:24:12,000
Speaker 1: real human being and not a character being crafted by

1802
01:24:12,040 --> 01:24:14,400
Speaker 1: God knows who with a goal of accomplishing God knows what.

1803
01:24:15,120 --> 01:24:17,680
Speaker 1: The account has since been suspended from Twitter, but in

1804
01:24:17,720 --> 01:24:20,200
Speaker 1: her relatively short time there on that platform less than

1805
01:24:20,200 --> 01:24:23,280
Speaker 1: two years, Erica had amassed a really large following by

1806
01:24:23,320 --> 01:24:26,800
Speaker 1: tweeting the most hilariously stereotypical liberal dribble that you can

1807
01:24:26,840 --> 01:24:30,719
Speaker 1: possibly imagine. One tweet proudly declared that she still wears

1808
01:24:30,880 --> 01:24:34,160
Speaker 1: two masks whenever I go out and support Ukraine. She

1809
01:24:34,240 --> 01:24:37,080
Speaker 1: also had a habit of copying verbatim viral tweets from

1810
01:24:37,080 --> 01:24:39,280
Speaker 1: other users to attention farm her own cloud.

1811
01:24:39,560 --> 01:24:40,600
Speaker 5: You get the idea.

1812
01:24:40,680 --> 01:24:42,759
Speaker 1: Now we have no clue who is behind this account.

1813
01:24:42,800 --> 01:24:45,839
Speaker 1: The Washington Post floats some sort of foreign malign influence campaign.

1814
01:24:45,960 --> 01:24:48,400
Speaker 1: Maybe other Twitter users have positive could be a right

1815
01:24:48,439 --> 01:24:50,719
Speaker 1: wing opt to make Democrats look as dumb as possible.

1816
01:24:51,000 --> 01:24:53,759
Speaker 1: It's also possible that Erica Marsh is a pseudonym adopted

1817
01:24:53,760 --> 01:24:55,840
Speaker 1: by a real person to share their actual views under

1818
01:24:55,840 --> 01:24:58,000
Speaker 1: a cloak of anonymity. We don't know, and in a

1819
01:24:58,000 --> 01:25:01,480
Speaker 1: certain sense, who really cares loosing out the real identity

1820
01:25:01,479 --> 01:25:04,280
Speaker 1: of some random lib Twitter account A worthwhile use of

1821
01:25:04,280 --> 01:25:07,479
Speaker 1: the journalistic resources of the Washington Post almost certainly not,

1822
01:25:07,840 --> 01:25:09,840
Speaker 1: and the instinct to hunt down the truth of Erica

1823
01:25:09,880 --> 01:25:12,280
Speaker 1: Marsh is almost certainly from the same reflex that led

1824
01:25:12,280 --> 01:25:15,320
Speaker 1: reporters to credulously believe that some bad Facebook memes from

1825
01:25:15,320 --> 01:25:18,559
Speaker 1: a Russian troll farm were determinative in electing Donald Trump.

1826
01:25:18,960 --> 01:25:21,120
Speaker 1: To me, the bigger puzzle, though, is what this one

1827
01:25:21,200 --> 01:25:25,120
Speaker 1: fake lib stereotype rage bita account says about us, about

1828
01:25:25,120 --> 01:25:28,000
Speaker 1: our political dialogue, the weird ways it turns in on

1829
01:25:28,080 --> 01:25:31,719
Speaker 1: itself and becomes increasingly strange from reality, but then also

1830
01:25:31,760 --> 01:25:32,960
Speaker 1: somehow leaks.

1831
01:25:32,680 --> 01:25:33,880
Speaker 5: Into that reality.

1832
01:25:34,320 --> 01:25:37,840
Speaker 1: After all, Erica Marsh is a fake person, but politicians

1833
01:25:37,840 --> 01:25:40,640
Speaker 1: and journalists who very much do exist engaged with this

1834
01:25:40,720 --> 01:25:45,040
Speaker 1: fake person genuinely crafting reality out of the fakery. The

1835
01:25:45,080 --> 01:25:47,519
Speaker 1: real question to me is how much of what we're

1836
01:25:47,520 --> 01:25:49,880
Speaker 1: doing in politics at this point is the equivalent of

1837
01:25:50,000 --> 01:25:54,080
Speaker 1: having arguments with Erica Marsh, fake debates with fake people

1838
01:25:54,400 --> 01:25:57,559
Speaker 1: or political ideologies, craft or respond to fake cartoon character

1839
01:25:57,640 --> 01:26:01,080
Speaker 1: ideological stereotypes that we have allowed, propagated and algorithms to

1840
01:26:01,120 --> 01:26:03,760
Speaker 1: build up in our own minds. What exactly are we

1841
01:26:03,840 --> 01:26:06,800
Speaker 1: really doing here? I'm genuinely puzzled by it. When Biden

1842
01:26:06,880 --> 01:26:09,280
Speaker 1: ran in twenty twenty, his campaign's best and most effective

1843
01:26:09,320 --> 01:26:12,639
Speaker 1: insight was that Twitter is not real life. They didn't

1844
01:26:12,640 --> 01:26:15,479
Speaker 1: respond to the reactionary online discourse of the day. They

1845
01:26:15,560 --> 01:26:18,120
Speaker 1: read the normy mood pretty well did enough at least

1846
01:26:18,120 --> 01:26:20,160
Speaker 1: to scrape together enough votes to win the White House

1847
01:26:20,320 --> 01:26:24,080
Speaker 1: Ron DeSantis, as we discussed earlier, polar opposite of that spectrum,

1848
01:26:24,280 --> 01:26:27,360
Speaker 1: hyper online rolling out campaign videos that would be downright

1849
01:26:27,400 --> 01:26:30,320
Speaker 1: incomprehensible to the overwhelming majority of Americans who do not

1850
01:26:30,360 --> 01:26:33,559
Speaker 1: spend their days tilting at Erica Marsh's. The politicians who

1851
01:26:33,640 --> 01:26:36,960
Speaker 1: are too online, too enmeshed in the fantasy world of

1852
01:26:37,000 --> 01:26:39,599
Speaker 1: the Erica Marsh type. They're hobbled when trying to win

1853
01:26:39,720 --> 01:26:42,600
Speaker 1: national elections, at least today, but it is a surefire

1854
01:26:42,680 --> 01:26:46,759
Speaker 1: way to attract Cloud. So yeah, Twitter is not real life,

1855
01:26:46,800 --> 01:26:51,120
Speaker 1: but some parts of Twitter escape into the wild into

1856
01:26:51,200 --> 01:26:54,360
Speaker 1: real life, smuggled out by the politicians who build brands

1857
01:26:54,360 --> 01:26:57,040
Speaker 1: and chase cloud in that world. And so we can't

1858
01:26:57,120 --> 01:27:01,000
Speaker 1: just dismiss the Erica marshes as inconsequential. When politicians and

1859
01:27:01,000 --> 01:27:04,320
Speaker 1: their most devoted followers and thinking and speaking and legislating,

1860
01:27:04,320 --> 01:27:06,920
Speaker 1: they're all doing this as if this is all actually real.

1861
01:27:07,439 --> 01:27:09,920
Speaker 1: And the truth is, we're easy prey. We're easy prey

1862
01:27:09,960 --> 01:27:12,280
Speaker 1: because we spend less time actually engaging in real life

1863
01:27:12,280 --> 01:27:15,360
Speaker 1: with people who are not ideologically aligned with us. We

1864
01:27:15,439 --> 01:27:17,800
Speaker 1: believe the caricatures because they don't have to bump up

1865
01:27:17,840 --> 01:27:20,800
Speaker 1: against reality very often, and because we've been persuaded to

1866
01:27:20,920 --> 01:27:24,000
Speaker 1: largely abandon politics as a real thing done in the

1867
01:27:24,040 --> 01:27:27,320
Speaker 1: real world with real people to achieve a real objective.

1868
01:27:27,920 --> 01:27:30,840
Speaker 1: In bowling alone, Robert Putnam tracks how we've received it

1869
01:27:30,880 --> 01:27:33,360
Speaker 1: from the active part of politics. We treat it more

1870
01:27:33,400 --> 01:27:36,960
Speaker 1: like a spectator sport, and of course spectator sports a

1871
01:27:36,960 --> 01:27:40,080
Speaker 1: lot more exciting, with great villains to play great heels.

1872
01:27:40,600 --> 01:27:43,360
Speaker 1: Even the real people. Though on Twitter and on social media,

1873
01:27:43,600 --> 01:27:46,439
Speaker 1: we are also playing a part, responding to the reward

1874
01:27:46,560 --> 01:27:49,559
Speaker 1: generated by algorithms and platform design in terms of service,

1875
01:27:50,000 --> 01:27:52,840
Speaker 1: treating ourselves on a daily basis to great moral conquests

1876
01:27:52,840 --> 01:27:55,080
Speaker 1: and pitch battles, and getting a sense that we're really

1877
01:27:55,080 --> 01:27:57,880
Speaker 1: doing something, approaching civic duty, playing our part in the

1878
01:27:57,880 --> 01:27:59,920
Speaker 1: great story that has our democracy, or at.

1879
01:27:59,880 --> 01:28:01,480
Speaker 5: LEAs so we imagine.

1880
01:28:01,680 --> 01:28:04,160
Speaker 1: Meanwhile, the big decisions are being taken at the Fed

1881
01:28:04,400 --> 01:28:06,919
Speaker 1: or the Treasury, on Wall Street, or in corporate boardrooms,

1882
01:28:06,960 --> 01:28:11,840
Speaker 1: where very real people take action to achieve very real goals, most.

1883
01:28:11,600 --> 01:28:13,240
Speaker 5: Often at our expense.

1884
01:28:14,360 --> 01:28:16,800
Speaker 1: In other news, this July fourth was the hottest day

1885
01:28:16,800 --> 01:28:20,559
Speaker 1: and recorded human history, the ocean hotter than ever. Scientists

1886
01:28:20,560 --> 01:28:23,120
Speaker 1: are warning that the Earth's vital signs are flashing code

1887
01:28:23,120 --> 01:28:27,000
Speaker 1: read wonder what Erica marsh might have said about it, Emily.

1888
01:28:27,520 --> 01:28:33,200
Speaker 1: This one really really got me thinking, all right, Emily,

1889
01:28:33,240 --> 01:28:33,760
Speaker 1: what are you looking at?

1890
01:28:33,880 --> 01:28:37,799
Speaker 4: Well, there's new research on marriage, and I guess people

1891
01:28:37,960 --> 01:28:38,719
Speaker 4: not getting married.

1892
01:28:38,720 --> 01:28:40,000
Speaker 3: That's probably the best way to put it.

1893
01:28:40,040 --> 01:28:43,360
Speaker 4: I want to start by actually Washington Examiner article by

1894
01:28:43,400 --> 01:28:46,280
Speaker 4: Brad Wilcox with the University of Virginia and the Institute

1895
01:28:46,280 --> 01:28:49,479
Speaker 4: for Family Studies on this new Pew research. We'll get

1896
01:28:49,520 --> 01:28:51,080
Speaker 4: to the Pew research in a second, but I first

1897
01:28:51,080 --> 01:28:53,400
Speaker 4: wanted to read the way Brad put it because I

1898
01:28:53,400 --> 01:28:57,000
Speaker 4: think he adds really really important framing not just that

1899
01:28:57,040 --> 01:28:59,680
Speaker 4: the left misses, but also that the right misses and

1900
01:28:59,720 --> 01:29:02,200
Speaker 4: has missed for years and years and years. So Brad writes,

1901
01:29:02,400 --> 01:29:04,920
Speaker 4: a record high twenty five percent of forty year olds

1902
01:29:04,920 --> 01:29:07,479
Speaker 4: in the United States were never married in twenty twenty one,

1903
01:29:07,640 --> 01:29:10,679
Speaker 4: according to sobering new statistics from the Pew Research Center.

1904
01:29:10,920 --> 01:29:14,200
Speaker 4: That statistic, and this is really important, compares to just

1905
01:29:14,360 --> 01:29:18,080
Speaker 4: six percent of never married forty year olds in nineteen eighty.

1906
01:29:18,200 --> 01:29:22,200
Speaker 4: So twenty five percent now six percent in nineteen eighty. Now,

1907
01:29:22,240 --> 01:29:24,320
Speaker 4: Brad goes on to say, digging further into the Pew

1908
01:29:24,360 --> 01:29:26,800
Speaker 4: data reveals that this retreat for marriage and family has

1909
01:29:26,920 --> 01:29:32,400
Speaker 4: hit vulnerable populations and the hardest, including minorities, the working class,

1910
01:29:32,439 --> 01:29:33,640
Speaker 4: and poor Americans.

1911
01:29:33,840 --> 01:29:35,720
Speaker 3: The upper classes continue.

1912
01:29:35,320 --> 01:29:38,479
Speaker 4: To marry, forge stable unions, and enjoy reasonable, reasonably happy

1913
01:29:38,520 --> 01:29:41,280
Speaker 4: family life, with the lower classes drift into a world

1914
01:29:41,320 --> 01:29:44,680
Speaker 4: of relational chaos. So some folks might not agree that

1915
01:29:44,720 --> 01:29:48,120
Speaker 4: marriage is essential to happiness and stability, and we'll get

1916
01:29:48,160 --> 01:29:50,479
Speaker 4: to that in just a second. But first let's zoom

1917
01:29:50,520 --> 01:29:54,400
Speaker 4: in on Brad's framing about who's being hit the hardest

1918
01:29:54,479 --> 01:29:56,960
Speaker 4: by this decline in marriage, at least at the age

1919
01:29:57,000 --> 01:30:00,000
Speaker 4: of forty. So let's put Pew's data up on the screen.

1920
01:30:00,160 --> 01:30:02,880
Speaker 4: So this is as of twenty twenty one. According to

1921
01:30:02,960 --> 01:30:06,639
Speaker 4: a recent a new Ugh analysis of Census Bureau data,

1922
01:30:06,760 --> 01:30:08,679
Speaker 4: as of twenty twenty one, twenty five percent of forty

1923
01:30:08,720 --> 01:30:10,679
Speaker 4: year olds in the US had never been married. As

1924
01:30:10,800 --> 01:30:14,160
Speaker 4: Brad said, but that was just from twenty ten. You

1925
01:30:14,240 --> 01:30:18,160
Speaker 4: get a five percent increase. Now look at these demographics,

1926
01:30:18,160 --> 01:30:20,320
Speaker 4: So black forty year olds were much more likely to

1927
01:30:20,439 --> 01:30:23,559
Speaker 4: have never married than Hispanic, White, Asia and Asian forty

1928
01:30:23,640 --> 01:30:26,720
Speaker 4: year olds. Education level forty year olds without a four

1929
01:30:26,800 --> 01:30:29,719
Speaker 4: year college degree were much more likely to have never

1930
01:30:29,760 --> 01:30:32,879
Speaker 4: married than those who had at least completed a bachelor's degree.

1931
01:30:33,000 --> 01:30:34,720
Speaker 4: One third of those with the high school diploma or

1932
01:30:34,800 --> 01:30:37,000
Speaker 4: less had never married, compared with twenty six percent of

1933
01:30:37,000 --> 01:30:39,639
Speaker 4: those with some college education and eighteen percent of those

1934
01:30:39,880 --> 01:30:43,240
Speaker 4: with a bachelor's degree or more education. Now, the overall

1935
01:30:43,280 --> 01:30:45,360
Speaker 4: decrease in the shriff four year olds who have married

1936
01:30:45,600 --> 01:30:48,040
Speaker 4: is especially notable, Pew says because the shriff forty year

1937
01:30:48,040 --> 01:30:50,640
Speaker 4: olds who had completed at least a bachelor's degree was

1938
01:30:50,800 --> 01:30:53,840
Speaker 4: much higher. So there's more people in that position in

1939
01:30:53,880 --> 01:30:56,559
Speaker 4: twenty twenty one than in nineteen eighty. That went from

1940
01:30:56,800 --> 01:31:00,160
Speaker 4: eighteen percent to thirty nine percent. So that's huge. It's

1941
01:31:00,200 --> 01:31:04,240
Speaker 4: a bigger group in a really powerful way. PW does

1942
01:31:04,320 --> 01:31:08,160
Speaker 4: conclude their article on this new analysis with some note

1943
01:31:08,200 --> 01:31:08,519
Speaker 4: of caution.

1944
01:31:08,680 --> 01:31:09,519
Speaker 3: They say, we.

1945
01:31:09,479 --> 01:31:12,200
Speaker 4: Can't assume that if someone is not married by age forty,

1946
01:31:12,439 --> 01:31:15,120
Speaker 4: they never will. In fact, they continue, about one in

1947
01:31:15,240 --> 01:31:16,800
Speaker 4: four forty year olds who had not married in two

1948
01:31:16,800 --> 01:31:19,120
Speaker 4: thousand and one had done so by age sixty. If

1949
01:31:19,160 --> 01:31:21,639
Speaker 4: that pattern holds, a similar sheriff, today's never married forty

1950
01:31:21,680 --> 01:31:24,439
Speaker 4: year olds will marry in the coming decades.

1951
01:31:24,840 --> 01:31:26,519
Speaker 3: That is a really big if.

1952
01:31:26,760 --> 01:31:30,000
Speaker 4: So while I appreciate Pugh, especially the social scientists at

1953
01:31:30,040 --> 01:31:32,200
Speaker 4: Pugh putting that in there, it is a really, really,

1954
01:31:32,200 --> 01:31:34,120
Speaker 4: really big if because of where we see the trend

1955
01:31:34,160 --> 01:31:37,400
Speaker 4: lines going. That said, it's still even if people are

1956
01:31:37,439 --> 01:31:41,599
Speaker 4: simply delaying marriage to forty or later, that can come

1957
01:31:41,680 --> 01:31:44,679
Speaker 4: with serious complications for their life and less than ideal

1958
01:31:44,680 --> 01:31:46,840
Speaker 4: complications for their life in ways that we're going to

1959
01:31:46,880 --> 01:31:50,360
Speaker 4: talk about right now, because that's what's really important. So

1960
01:31:51,120 --> 01:31:53,839
Speaker 4: education by social scientists is used as a really helpful

1961
01:31:53,840 --> 01:31:57,559
Speaker 4: proxy for class and you can see that born out

1962
01:31:57,600 --> 01:31:59,040
Speaker 4: in a whole lot of data. And so what we're

1963
01:31:59,080 --> 01:32:02,320
Speaker 4: really looking at here is exactly what Brad describes wealthy

1964
01:32:02,360 --> 01:32:04,559
Speaker 4: people who have taken to the pages of and I

1965
01:32:04,560 --> 01:32:07,479
Speaker 4: did a little look yesterday at some recent articles where

1966
01:32:07,640 --> 01:32:11,880
Speaker 4: marriage has been disparaged as an institution, disparaged as outdated

1967
01:32:12,160 --> 01:32:17,280
Speaker 4: and not of much use anymore, Business Insider, the Atlantic, Teen, Vogue,

1968
01:32:17,320 --> 01:32:19,400
Speaker 4: the New York Times. The people who are taking to

1969
01:32:19,439 --> 01:32:24,920
Speaker 4: the pages of those elite media outlets are actually getting

1970
01:32:24,920 --> 01:32:27,640
Speaker 4: married at higher rates and really always have been. My

1971
01:32:27,720 --> 01:32:30,320
Speaker 4: old boss Tim Carney over at the Washington Examiner wrote

1972
01:32:30,360 --> 01:32:33,280
Speaker 4: a great book called Alienated America which is always behind

1973
01:32:33,280 --> 01:32:35,080
Speaker 4: me on the shelf. Here on the new set, he

1974
01:32:35,120 --> 01:32:37,800
Speaker 4: wrote about what he calls the Lena Dunham fallacy, which

1975
01:32:37,840 --> 01:32:40,519
Speaker 4: is just a wonderful turn of phrase, but he also

1976
01:32:40,560 --> 01:32:42,760
Speaker 4: defines it in a really important way as quote, the

1977
01:32:42,760 --> 01:32:47,000
Speaker 4: tendency to attribute to decadent elites social phenomena really located

1978
01:32:47,080 --> 01:32:50,280
Speaker 4: among the working class, and the inclination to quote blame

1979
01:32:50,320 --> 01:32:53,679
Speaker 4: cultural shifts away from the traditional norms on highly educated,

1980
01:32:53,960 --> 01:32:57,960
Speaker 4: wealthy white liberals. So you know, we're typically people on

1981
01:32:58,000 --> 01:33:00,920
Speaker 4: the right, especially if you look at sort of the

1982
01:33:00,960 --> 01:33:04,120
Speaker 4: narrative in the language around like welfare queens. You say, oh,

1983
01:33:04,200 --> 01:33:09,679
Speaker 4: these welfare queens and welfare communities are destroying American culture,

1984
01:33:09,720 --> 01:33:12,320
Speaker 4: et cetera, et cetera. It's just a completely ridiculous argument

1985
01:33:12,360 --> 01:33:15,480
Speaker 4: because what you have actually are elites who are conditioning

1986
01:33:15,560 --> 01:33:19,600
Speaker 4: all of us over and over again with cultural messaging

1987
01:33:20,160 --> 01:33:24,840
Speaker 4: in media and elsewhere to say, oh, marriage not really

1988
01:33:24,880 --> 01:33:26,559
Speaker 4: that important, but it is.

1989
01:33:26,760 --> 01:33:28,160
Speaker 3: And this is where again.

1990
01:33:28,160 --> 01:33:31,000
Speaker 4: Maybe some folks agree, but I think it's really important

1991
01:33:31,400 --> 01:33:35,879
Speaker 4: to zoom in and realize that the bulk of research

1992
01:33:36,040 --> 01:33:39,639
Speaker 4: suggests that marriage and happiness actually are coordinated.

1993
01:33:39,640 --> 01:33:41,519
Speaker 3: They actually are. They go together.

1994
01:33:41,760 --> 01:33:44,559
Speaker 4: Marriage actually is a source of great happiness for people,

1995
01:33:44,640 --> 01:33:46,560
Speaker 4: even though you know, people have been told for a

1996
01:33:46,600 --> 01:33:51,160
Speaker 4: really long time that you can you find happiness outside marriage,

1997
01:33:51,320 --> 01:33:54,799
Speaker 4: et cetera, et cetera. That's true, But the research shows

1998
01:33:54,880 --> 01:33:57,720
Speaker 4: us that marriage is one of the best predictors of

1999
01:33:57,800 --> 01:34:01,680
Speaker 4: happiness and also one of the best predictors of stability

2000
01:34:01,720 --> 01:34:05,240
Speaker 4: for children being raised in a household with two married parents,

2001
01:34:05,400 --> 01:34:09,120
Speaker 4: especially upward mobility. People who grow up with less money

2002
01:34:09,120 --> 01:34:12,720
Speaker 4: but in a household with two married parents are more

2003
01:34:12,800 --> 01:34:16,080
Speaker 4: likely to experience upward mobility and escape the cycle of poverty.

2004
01:34:16,320 --> 01:34:19,400
Speaker 4: And that's another essential element of all of this in

2005
01:34:19,439 --> 01:34:21,640
Speaker 4: the class framework that again the right misses and the

2006
01:34:21,680 --> 01:34:24,120
Speaker 4: left definitely misses. This is also from the Institute of

2007
01:34:24,120 --> 01:34:27,880
Speaker 4: Family Studies quote. The story is straightforward. They're obviously pro marriage,

2008
01:34:27,880 --> 01:34:29,680
Speaker 4: but taking a look at the sort of research here,

2009
01:34:29,720 --> 01:34:32,559
Speaker 4: they say married respondents are much happier, and consistent with

2010
01:34:32,640 --> 01:34:35,400
Speaker 4: prior research, parents are a little less happy than non

2011
01:34:35,439 --> 01:34:39,280
Speaker 4: parents provided they are unmarried. So parents are a little

2012
01:34:39,320 --> 01:34:42,519
Speaker 4: less happy than non parents when they're unmarried. And again,

2013
01:34:42,680 --> 01:34:45,639
Speaker 4: like this is sometimes very logical, it's really really hard

2014
01:34:45,920 --> 01:34:48,640
Speaker 4: to single parent, it's really hard to deal with the

2015
01:34:48,640 --> 01:34:54,439
Speaker 4: complications of you know, that entire system and to deal

2016
01:34:54,479 --> 01:34:57,160
Speaker 4: with you know, in so many cases, you know the

2017
01:34:57,760 --> 01:35:00,680
Speaker 4: pain that women experience when they delay marriage to the

2018
01:35:00,680 --> 01:35:04,160
Speaker 4: point where as Limeonstone has demonstrated for ifs as well.

2019
01:35:04,080 --> 01:35:06,240
Speaker 3: They're not having as many kids as they say they want.

2020
01:35:06,760 --> 01:35:08,800
Speaker 4: It's one thing for women to have fewer kids and

2021
01:35:08,840 --> 01:35:11,519
Speaker 4: to say, you know, women are able to exercise choice

2022
01:35:11,760 --> 01:35:14,160
Speaker 4: and are making these decisions on their own, and they're

2023
01:35:14,200 --> 01:35:16,960
Speaker 4: able to plan it thanks to technology in ways that

2024
01:35:17,479 --> 01:35:18,360
Speaker 4: makes them happier.

2025
01:35:18,400 --> 01:35:21,040
Speaker 3: Sure, but it's also a problem.

2026
01:35:20,680 --> 01:35:22,200
Speaker 4: When you get to the point where women want to

2027
01:35:22,240 --> 01:35:25,000
Speaker 4: have more children than they're actually able to have. In

2028
01:35:25,040 --> 01:35:28,320
Speaker 4: some cases, because let's talk about it, student loans, something

2029
01:35:28,320 --> 01:35:30,240
Speaker 4: the right doesn't want to talk about. Being saddled with

2030
01:35:30,320 --> 01:35:33,360
Speaker 4: tens of thousands of dollars of debt in student loans

2031
01:35:33,400 --> 01:35:35,280
Speaker 4: by a system that lied to you and so this

2032
01:35:35,360 --> 01:35:37,679
Speaker 4: was your ticket to the middle class. You graduate college

2033
01:35:37,720 --> 01:35:39,680
Speaker 4: with tens of thousands of dollars in debt, you're not

2034
01:35:39,720 --> 01:35:42,679
Speaker 4: able to buy a home, you don't feel stable, and

2035
01:35:42,760 --> 01:35:45,599
Speaker 4: in some cases, as polling suggests, you're putting off marriage

2036
01:35:45,640 --> 01:35:48,840
Speaker 4: specifically because you're saddled with a crazy amount of student

2037
01:35:48,880 --> 01:35:51,920
Speaker 4: loan debt. All of these things are contributing to a

2038
01:35:51,960 --> 01:35:54,479
Speaker 4: place where, you know, if P is correct and this

2039
01:35:54,600 --> 01:35:57,839
Speaker 4: trend picks up, you know, people are marrying after forty

2040
01:35:57,960 --> 01:36:00,439
Speaker 4: at a rate that's similar to in the eighties or

2041
01:36:00,439 --> 01:36:03,320
Speaker 4: even before that. We'll see that has yet to be determined,

2042
01:36:03,520 --> 01:36:06,760
Speaker 4: but even that is barely a positive metric, because you'll

2043
01:36:06,880 --> 01:36:09,559
Speaker 4: end up again worsening this cycle of women having fewer

2044
01:36:09,640 --> 01:36:13,280
Speaker 4: children than they want to and people experiencing a lot

2045
01:36:13,280 --> 01:36:17,959
Speaker 4: of really unhappy years, unnecessarily so because of the cultural

2046
01:36:18,000 --> 01:36:19,559
Speaker 4: and social conditions.

2047
01:36:19,360 --> 01:36:20,360
Speaker 3: That they were.

2048
01:36:21,320 --> 01:36:24,040
Speaker 4: Basically like that you should these are the waters that

2049
01:36:24,080 --> 01:36:26,240
Speaker 4: we swim in. As Crystal use that phrase in an

2050
01:36:26,240 --> 01:36:28,800
Speaker 4: earlier segment, this is not a culture. This is not

2051
01:36:28,840 --> 01:36:31,840
Speaker 4: a political system that incentivizes these things. It's not a

2052
01:36:31,880 --> 01:36:36,040
Speaker 4: political system or a culture that has created healthy conditions

2053
01:36:36,040 --> 01:36:38,240
Speaker 4: for any of it. And I think what's absolutely essential

2054
01:36:38,280 --> 01:36:41,519
Speaker 4: to realize is that this is a system being rigged

2055
01:36:41,560 --> 01:36:44,840
Speaker 4: by elites who are not themselves practicing what they preach

2056
01:36:45,000 --> 01:36:48,120
Speaker 4: to absolutely everyone else, which is marriage is and all

2057
01:36:48,120 --> 01:36:51,000
Speaker 4: that important. It's not essential to happiness. You can find

2058
01:36:51,000 --> 01:36:55,120
Speaker 4: your happiness in work. That's a huge Sheryl Sandberg line.

2059
01:36:55,400 --> 01:36:57,800
Speaker 4: That's what you hear all the time from corporate executives.

2060
01:36:58,240 --> 01:37:00,920
Speaker 4: And you see that even in Jacobin, a review of

2061
01:37:01,000 --> 01:37:04,040
Speaker 4: a new Pixar movie this month that you talked about

2062
01:37:04,040 --> 01:37:07,439
Speaker 4: how Pixar often depicts people finding their happiness in work.

2063
01:37:07,479 --> 01:37:09,240
Speaker 4: They compared it to like a Rand novel, which I

2064
01:37:09,240 --> 01:37:12,040
Speaker 4: think is maybe a little bit far. But the point remains,

2065
01:37:12,040 --> 01:37:14,680
Speaker 4: this is a culture that talks excessively about finding your

2066
01:37:14,680 --> 01:37:17,840
Speaker 4: happiness in work and not in family life. And that

2067
01:37:17,960 --> 01:37:19,880
Speaker 4: is the pendulum swinging way too far back in the

2068
01:37:19,920 --> 01:37:23,360
Speaker 4: other direction. And again, it is hurting the working class

2069
01:37:23,439 --> 01:37:26,400
Speaker 4: more than elites, and elites know that because they are

2070
01:37:26,439 --> 01:37:31,120
Speaker 4: not following the same patterns that they prescribe for everybody else. Crystal, Yes,

2071
01:37:31,479 --> 01:37:32,280
Speaker 4: this is frustrating.

2072
01:37:33,000 --> 01:37:33,760
Speaker 3: From the right, and.

2073
01:37:36,840 --> 01:37:39,600
Speaker 1: The nation of Israel just completed a deadly assault on

2074
01:37:39,640 --> 01:37:41,120
Speaker 1: the Palestinian city of Jeanine.

2075
01:37:41,200 --> 01:37:42,760
Speaker 5: Let's go and put this up on the screen from

2076
01:37:42,760 --> 01:37:43,439
Speaker 5: Common Dreams.

2077
01:37:43,439 --> 01:37:48,719
Speaker 1: Their headline here, catastrophic Israeli forces unleash humanitarian disaster in Janine.

2078
01:37:48,760 --> 01:37:50,679
Speaker 5: Let me read you a little bit of this. They say.

2079
01:37:50,680 --> 01:37:52,760
Speaker 1: Thousands of people who live in that city, in the

2080
01:37:52,800 --> 01:37:56,200
Speaker 1: occupied West Bank, are reportedly fleeing the poverty stricken refugee

2081
01:37:56,200 --> 01:37:59,880
Speaker 1: camp as Israeli military forces Tuesday continued to batter the cities,

2082
01:38:00,120 --> 01:38:04,000
Speaker 1: water power, and healthcare infrastructure. Mohammad Abu Talal, a resident

2083
01:38:04,040 --> 01:38:06,160
Speaker 1: of the camp, told Middle East I on Tuesday, a

2084
01:38:06,240 --> 01:38:08,559
Speaker 1: day after a large scale assault by the IDF left

2085
01:38:08,600 --> 01:38:11,160
Speaker 1: at least ten Palestinians dead and scores more wounded, that

2086
01:38:11,200 --> 01:38:14,160
Speaker 1: the refugee camps quote streets are all dug up and

2087
01:38:14,240 --> 01:38:18,840
Speaker 1: uprooted by bulldozers used by the Israeli forces. We're lucky

2088
01:38:18,880 --> 01:38:20,640
Speaker 1: to be joined by a great guest this morning who

2089
01:38:20,680 --> 01:38:22,479
Speaker 1: can help break down the situation and what we know

2090
01:38:22,560 --> 01:38:24,800
Speaker 1: at this point. O Marsha care serves as the Israel

2091
01:38:24,840 --> 01:38:27,960
Speaker 1: and Palestine director at Human Rights Watch. He investigates their

2092
01:38:28,120 --> 01:38:32,200
Speaker 1: human rights abuses in Israel, the West Bank and Gaza. Welcome, Omar, glad.

2093
01:38:32,000 --> 01:38:33,679
Speaker 3: To have you, Thanks for having me.

2094
01:38:34,240 --> 01:38:35,639
Speaker 5: So just tell us what we know so far?

2095
01:38:36,280 --> 01:38:37,160
Speaker 3: Sure, So, what we know.

2096
01:38:37,240 --> 01:38:40,320
Speaker 8: Is in this two day military incursion into the Janina

2097
01:38:40,360 --> 01:38:44,160
Speaker 8: refugee camp in the occupied West Bank, Israeli forces killed

2098
01:38:44,600 --> 01:38:50,880
Speaker 8: twelve Palestinians. Scores more were injured, including children. Children are

2099
01:38:50,880 --> 01:38:53,439
Speaker 8: among those killed. We know that more than three thousand

2100
01:38:53,600 --> 01:38:58,000
Speaker 8: five hundred Palestinians were displaced from their homes in the

2101
01:38:58,080 --> 01:39:01,799
Speaker 8: refugee camp. We know that thousands more had their access

2102
01:39:01,800 --> 01:39:05,280
Speaker 8: to electricity and water cuts, and we know that for

2103
01:39:05,560 --> 01:39:10,479
Speaker 8: long stretches, ambulances were blocked from entering the refugee camp

2104
01:39:10,520 --> 01:39:15,000
Speaker 8: to provide health services. Hospitals were struck by tear guest canisters.

2105
01:39:15,360 --> 01:39:18,040
Speaker 8: And this isn't some one off event. Janine has been

2106
01:39:18,120 --> 01:39:20,680
Speaker 8: for much of the last year and a half frequently

2107
01:39:20,760 --> 01:39:24,320
Speaker 8: targeted by the Israeli army. In fact, we're seeing unprecedented

2108
01:39:24,800 --> 01:39:28,320
Speaker 8: numbers of Palestinians gunned down in the West Bank. And

2109
01:39:28,360 --> 01:39:32,240
Speaker 8: this is in year fifty seven of an occupation that's

2110
01:39:32,280 --> 01:39:34,400
Speaker 8: been going on for far too long.

2111
01:39:35,320 --> 01:39:37,960
Speaker 3: So I want to ask about the counterpoint here.

2112
01:39:38,000 --> 01:39:41,080
Speaker 4: This is from Lisa Daftari, which is obviously she's a

2113
01:39:41,160 --> 01:39:44,559
Speaker 4: very vigorous defender of Israel. Her publication reported that Israel

2114
01:39:44,600 --> 01:39:47,880
Speaker 4: reviewed details revealed details about an underground terris route that

2115
01:39:47,920 --> 01:39:50,360
Speaker 4: was uncovered in a mosque. Lisa said, the mainstream media

2116
01:39:50,360 --> 01:39:51,800
Speaker 4: only times and now to tell you about the so

2117
01:39:51,880 --> 01:39:54,640
Speaker 4: called war crimes Israel's committed by going into Janine. They

2118
01:39:54,720 --> 01:39:57,120
Speaker 4: leave out these small details. So argument is that this

2119
01:39:57,200 --> 01:39:59,360
Speaker 4: is on the heels of a sort of broader assault

2120
01:39:59,439 --> 01:40:03,160
Speaker 4: on Israel and its retaliation, et cetera, et cetera. What

2121
01:40:03,360 --> 01:40:08,000
Speaker 4: is your response to that line of argumentation. I'm sure

2122
01:40:08,040 --> 01:40:10,400
Speaker 4: I disagree with it, but what are people who claim

2123
01:40:10,400 --> 01:40:12,240
Speaker 4: there's validity to that getting wrong?

2124
01:40:12,760 --> 01:40:13,000
Speaker 3: Sure?

2125
01:40:13,000 --> 01:40:14,360
Speaker 8: I think part of it is, like, you know, we

2126
01:40:14,439 --> 01:40:17,360
Speaker 8: see this argument being used all the time in Gaza,

2127
01:40:17,400 --> 01:40:20,920
Speaker 8: for example, and it's been seventeen years of continuous rounds

2128
01:40:20,920 --> 01:40:22,800
Speaker 8: of assaults and escalations.

2129
01:40:22,880 --> 01:40:23,000
Speaker 6: Right.

2130
01:40:23,040 --> 01:40:26,600
Speaker 8: The reality here is this is part of a methodical policy.

2131
01:40:27,000 --> 01:40:32,640
Speaker 8: Human rights organizations, including Israeli human rights organizations Palestinian International

2132
01:40:32,760 --> 01:40:35,680
Speaker 8: upset that the Israeli government is committing the crime of

2133
01:40:35,760 --> 01:40:40,519
Speaker 8: aparthet against Palestinians. There is no security justification for Israel

2134
01:40:40,600 --> 01:40:44,760
Speaker 8: exproporating Palestinian land to build settlements. There is no security

2135
01:40:44,840 --> 01:40:48,800
Speaker 8: justification for giving building permits to build settlements which are

2136
01:40:48,800 --> 01:40:52,439
Speaker 8: illegal and denying them for Palestinians to add extensions to

2137
01:40:52,479 --> 01:40:56,439
Speaker 8: their own. There is no security justification for policies that

2138
01:40:56,520 --> 01:41:01,120
Speaker 8: deny residency rights for Palestinians to live with their Israeli

2139
01:41:02,160 --> 01:41:05,200
Speaker 8: partner in Israel, but allow it to foreigners of any

2140
01:41:05,240 --> 01:41:10,200
Speaker 8: other nationality. Security is frequently invoked. It's often pretextual, and

2141
01:41:10,360 --> 01:41:13,960
Speaker 8: even when security is part of the consideration, and of

2142
01:41:13,960 --> 01:41:16,080
Speaker 8: course there have been Israelis who have been who have

2143
01:41:16,160 --> 01:41:19,680
Speaker 8: been killed, the Israeli government goes so far beyond with

2144
01:41:19,840 --> 01:41:24,280
Speaker 8: international law authorizes, right, you know, actions that affect thousands

2145
01:41:24,320 --> 01:41:28,960
Speaker 8: of people, that displace them, that they no more justify

2146
01:41:29,080 --> 01:41:32,439
Speaker 8: these actions, you know, than torture invoked in the name

2147
01:41:32,479 --> 01:41:35,360
Speaker 8: of security would justify those particular actions.

2148
01:41:36,640 --> 01:41:38,760
Speaker 1: Talk to us a little bit about this current net

2149
01:41:38,880 --> 01:41:42,479
Speaker 1: Yahoo government, which has been described, I think justifiably so

2150
01:41:42,760 --> 01:41:45,320
Speaker 1: as the most far right, especially some of the coalition

2151
01:41:45,439 --> 01:41:48,080
Speaker 1: partners that are part of this government, and the most

2152
01:41:48,080 --> 01:41:51,680
Speaker 1: far right government in Israeli history. Do you see this

2153
01:41:51,840 --> 01:41:56,439
Speaker 1: action as a character different from some of the assaults

2154
01:41:56,479 --> 01:41:59,240
Speaker 1: that have gone on under previous administrations.

2155
01:42:00,120 --> 01:42:03,479
Speaker 8: So you're right to highlight the continuity these policies. I mean,

2156
01:42:03,520 --> 01:42:07,439
Speaker 8: the difference is one of scale, not kind, right, So

2157
01:42:07,479 --> 01:42:10,560
Speaker 8: I think this government has been very explicit. The founding

2158
01:42:11,040 --> 01:42:14,880
Speaker 8: texts that created the coalition sets out that their primary

2159
01:42:14,920 --> 01:42:19,160
Speaker 8: objectives ensuring the exclusive and that's in quotes right of

2160
01:42:19,200 --> 01:42:22,040
Speaker 8: the Jewish people to the land between the Jordan River

2161
01:42:22,080 --> 01:42:25,200
Speaker 8: and the Mediterranean Sea. The problem is half that population

2162
01:42:25,240 --> 01:42:28,680
Speaker 8: who lives there are not Jewish, They're Palestinian. And the

2163
01:42:28,680 --> 01:42:33,400
Speaker 8: government has been very explicit about expanding settlements, about demolishing

2164
01:42:33,439 --> 01:42:38,000
Speaker 8: Palestinian homes, about relaxing the use of force standards that

2165
01:42:38,160 --> 01:42:42,000
Speaker 8: make it more easy to kill Palestinians. They're not hiding it.

2166
01:42:42,040 --> 01:42:46,040
Speaker 8: They're saying that the current reality is the you know,

2167
01:42:46,200 --> 01:42:49,000
Speaker 8: is the final solution. There is no you know, sort

2168
01:42:49,040 --> 01:42:50,080
Speaker 8: of peace process.

2169
01:42:50,120 --> 01:42:51,040
Speaker 5: There is no plan.

2170
01:42:51,400 --> 01:42:55,200
Speaker 8: There's just a transparent policy to ensure the well being

2171
01:42:55,240 --> 01:42:57,880
Speaker 8: of the Jewish people at the expense of Palestinians. And

2172
01:42:57,960 --> 01:43:00,520
Speaker 8: more and more people are calling this out as apartheid.

2173
01:43:01,200 --> 01:43:03,639
Speaker 8: And that's sort of where the conversation shifting. I think

2174
01:43:03,680 --> 01:43:06,360
Speaker 8: in the US that conversation is not caught up with

2175
01:43:06,439 --> 01:43:07,920
Speaker 8: where it is in the rest of the world. But

2176
01:43:08,200 --> 01:43:12,200
Speaker 8: it's the transparent consensus within the human rights movement and

2177
01:43:12,240 --> 01:43:15,360
Speaker 8: by more and more voices from the former UN Secretary

2178
01:43:15,439 --> 01:43:19,360
Speaker 8: General to leading former Israeli government officials, to governments like

2179
01:43:19,400 --> 01:43:22,639
Speaker 8: South Africa and Indonesia, governments across the world.

2180
01:43:23,439 --> 01:43:27,080
Speaker 4: So what's the immediate future look like for Janine on

2181
01:43:27,160 --> 01:43:29,519
Speaker 4: the heels of all of this, you know, in the

2182
01:43:29,560 --> 01:43:32,240
Speaker 4: coming days, the coming weeks, the coming months, what can

2183
01:43:32,840 --> 01:43:34,880
Speaker 4: observers expect to see out of the region.

2184
01:43:35,600 --> 01:43:38,040
Speaker 8: I'm afraid I don't have much optimistic to share with you,

2185
01:43:38,160 --> 01:43:44,000
Speaker 8: because this situation is in some ways unprecedentedly bad. And

2186
01:43:44,120 --> 01:43:47,640
Speaker 8: the problem we have here is that when these cycles

2187
01:43:47,640 --> 01:43:51,400
Speaker 8: of violence take place, when war crimes and other abuses

2188
01:43:51,439 --> 01:43:52,920
Speaker 8: take place, and by the way, not just by the

2189
01:43:52,960 --> 01:43:56,719
Speaker 8: Israeli government, sometimes these abuses are committed by Palestinian actors,

2190
01:43:56,960 --> 01:44:02,559
Speaker 8: there is systematically no accountability, so that fuels a cycle

2191
01:44:02,600 --> 01:44:05,880
Speaker 8: of impunity. So we see the same kinds of things

2192
01:44:05,920 --> 01:44:08,879
Speaker 8: happening again and again. People forget that the Gene refugee

2193
01:44:08,960 --> 01:44:12,040
Speaker 8: camp twenty years ago was the site of an Israeli

2194
01:44:12,080 --> 01:44:16,080
Speaker 8: incursion that left scores of Palestinians killed. So until you

2195
01:44:16,160 --> 01:44:20,080
Speaker 8: actually address the lack of accountability and you deal with

2196
01:44:20,120 --> 01:44:24,080
Speaker 8: the root causes to the systemic violence, which include at

2197
01:44:24,120 --> 01:44:28,479
Speaker 8: its core, Israel's apartheid against Palestinians, I'm afraid you're going

2198
01:44:28,520 --> 01:44:33,559
Speaker 8: to continue to see cycles of these violence take place,

2199
01:44:33,680 --> 01:44:38,719
Speaker 8: more raids, more killings, you know, more limited collective punishment

2200
01:44:38,760 --> 01:44:42,240
Speaker 8: that amounts to less access to electricity, water, et cetera.

2201
01:44:42,360 --> 01:44:46,240
Speaker 8: The solution is to recognize the reality of systematic rights

2202
01:44:46,240 --> 01:44:50,679
Speaker 8: abuse and complicity and ensure accountability for those serious abuses

2203
01:44:51,280 --> 01:44:51,799
Speaker 8: and OMAR.

2204
01:44:51,840 --> 01:44:56,840
Speaker 1: Finally, we tracked closely here huge protests across Israel bringing

2205
01:44:56,880 --> 01:44:59,600
Speaker 1: together are a lot of different groups in reaction to

2206
01:44:59,720 --> 01:45:02,639
Speaker 1: what is widely seen and I think justifiably so as

2207
01:45:02,640 --> 01:45:07,960
Speaker 1: a sort of judicial takeover attempt from NETANYAHUU and his government.

2208
01:45:08,479 --> 01:45:12,639
Speaker 1: Do you see any signs of similar pushback against these

2209
01:45:12,680 --> 01:45:17,479
Speaker 1: types of deadly assaults? Is their widespread public support for

2210
01:45:17,680 --> 01:45:20,080
Speaker 1: these type of actions from the Israeli people.

2211
01:45:20,880 --> 01:45:24,400
Speaker 8: So look, there's a minority, but there is a contingent

2212
01:45:24,400 --> 01:45:27,240
Speaker 8: of Israelis that show up every week at these protests

2213
01:45:27,280 --> 01:45:31,280
Speaker 8: with signs that make the linkage between the judicial overhaul

2214
01:45:31,439 --> 01:45:36,680
Speaker 8: and the repression apartheid occupation of Palestinians. There's still a minority.

2215
01:45:36,760 --> 01:45:40,719
Speaker 8: The majority protest movement has largely focused on the issue

2216
01:45:40,760 --> 01:45:43,559
Speaker 8: of the judiciary, but more and more people are drawing

2217
01:45:43,640 --> 01:45:47,200
Speaker 8: the connections that understand that what's happening in Israel is

2218
01:45:47,200 --> 01:45:52,880
Speaker 8: the inevitable result of decades of illegality, in the West Bank,

2219
01:45:52,920 --> 01:45:56,400
Speaker 8: of impunity, and in many of these forces that have

2220
01:45:56,520 --> 01:46:00,000
Speaker 8: risen to power that are pushing the judicial overhaul actually

2221
01:46:00,160 --> 01:46:03,000
Speaker 8: you know, come from the settler movement, actually want to

2222
01:46:03,040 --> 01:46:07,160
Speaker 8: import you know, these values there. So some linkages are

2223
01:46:07,160 --> 01:46:09,880
Speaker 8: being drawn. It's not enough, and I think it's quite

2224
01:46:09,960 --> 01:46:12,640
Speaker 8: important that we continue to make the connection, you know,

2225
01:46:12,680 --> 01:46:16,479
Speaker 8: between these issues because ultimately, yes, the judiciary has been

2226
01:46:16,520 --> 01:46:19,120
Speaker 8: a rubber stamp on many if the abuse of policies

2227
01:46:19,160 --> 01:46:21,559
Speaker 8: of the occupation, you know, But at the same time,

2228
01:46:21,680 --> 01:46:25,800
Speaker 8: obviously removing even that limited check you know, could make

2229
01:46:26,040 --> 01:46:31,559
Speaker 8: the situation dramatically worse, and always Palestinians receive, you know,

2230
01:46:31,600 --> 01:46:34,839
Speaker 8: the brunt end of those kinds of of changes.

2231
01:46:35,880 --> 01:46:37,880
Speaker 1: Omar, thank you so much for taking the time to

2232
01:46:37,960 --> 01:46:40,679
Speaker 1: join us and break down this complicated and very time situation.

2233
01:46:40,840 --> 01:46:42,719
Speaker 5: Thank you, Thank you all.

2234
01:46:42,640 --> 01:46:44,920
Speaker 1: Right, guys, thank you so much for watching Emily. Thank

2235
01:46:44,960 --> 01:46:47,240
Speaker 1: you for filling in for Sager. You did a fantastic job.

2236
01:46:47,240 --> 01:46:47,800
Speaker 5: It was a lot of fun.

2237
01:46:47,840 --> 01:46:49,400
Speaker 3: Thanks for having me. It's always a pleasure.

2238
01:46:49,560 --> 01:46:51,880
Speaker 4: And as a viewer of Breaking Points, I'm honestly really

2239
01:46:51,920 --> 01:46:52,960
Speaker 4: excited to have soccer back.

2240
01:46:53,760 --> 01:46:56,040
Speaker 1: Soccer will be back, and we think at least on

2241
01:46:56,160 --> 01:46:59,360
Speaker 1: Monday it'll be a married man and we should have

2242
01:46:59,400 --> 01:47:02,080
Speaker 1: a normal shows next week with all the you know,

2243
01:47:02,200 --> 01:47:04,360
Speaker 1: normal hosts in the normal places, et cetera, et cetera.

2244
01:47:04,400 --> 01:47:06,559
Speaker 5: As far as I know, I've been Ryan yes, and

2245
01:47:06,640 --> 01:47:08,040
Speaker 5: Ryan is allegedly going to be.

2246
01:47:08,000 --> 01:47:09,759
Speaker 3: Back as well. Drag them back from Vermont.

2247
01:47:11,520 --> 01:47:14,400
Speaker 1: Thank you, guys so much again for making all of

2248
01:47:14,400 --> 01:47:17,000
Speaker 1: this possible. If you are not a premium subscriber, we

2249
01:47:17,000 --> 01:47:19,200
Speaker 1: would love your support there. That is what enables the

2250
01:47:19,240 --> 01:47:20,840
Speaker 1: set in the show and all of the things we're

2251
01:47:20,840 --> 01:47:23,559
Speaker 1: trying to do for twenty twenty four Breakingpoints dot Com.

2252
01:47:23,920 --> 01:47:25,920
Speaker 1: Love you guys, have a wonderful weekend, and we'll see

2253
01:47:25,920 --> 01:47:26,479
Speaker 1: you next week.