WEBVTT - Questlove Supreme: The Jacksons 0:00:00.160 --> 0:00:09.240 Quest Love Supreme is a production of iHeartRadio. Ladies and gentlemen, 0:00:09.360 --> 0:00:11.920 Welcome to another episode of Quest Love Supreme. Line here 0:00:12.000 --> 0:00:15.200 hosts Quest Lot. Uh. We have teams Supreme with us. 0:00:15.400 --> 0:00:20.880 We have unpaid bill. Yes, there you are. How you 0:00:20.960 --> 0:00:24.360 doing sugar Stea even now? How you doing him? Mayor? Hi? 0:00:24.440 --> 0:00:24.800 Jackson? 0:00:27.800 --> 0:00:29.920 Right? Yes? 0:00:30.200 --> 0:00:34.920 We have a fo yeah man buzzing down, a saturn 0:00:35.280 --> 0:00:39.760 and a and a crab cake. I'm sorry because you 0:00:39.800 --> 0:00:44.400 know I'm watching trying to watch my figures and all day. 0:00:44.320 --> 0:00:46.120 I said to let you know, I give it up. 0:00:46.600 --> 0:00:48.160 I had it on blast before. 0:00:48.159 --> 0:00:52.559 I can't waiting on this all day. Bro Parably, we 0:00:52.600 --> 0:00:57.720 have the first lady of the show. How are you 0:00:57.800 --> 0:00:58.680 right now? Be good? 0:01:00.120 --> 0:01:02.520 Okay, we got a paper? Can you feel yet here? 0:01:06.600 --> 0:01:10.800 Anyway, Ladies and gentlemen, I will just say that we're 0:01:10.840 --> 0:01:15.319 given the honor right now of having a conversation with 0:01:16.480 --> 0:01:21.440 an American I guess I can say an American institution, Yes, 0:01:21.640 --> 0:01:26.399 an American dynasty. For over damn near six decades, our 0:01:26.440 --> 0:01:31.479 guests have blazed a trail of hit records, have sold 0:01:31.520 --> 0:01:36.600 out concerts of Disney and choreography of groundmaking videos. Basically, 0:01:36.640 --> 0:01:39.720 I'll be pressed to find one human being on Earth 0:01:39.720 --> 0:01:43.520 who's not, in one way, shape or form, been affected 0:01:43.520 --> 0:01:46.400 by their legacy. And it's apropos that they're on the 0:01:46.400 --> 0:01:50.240 show now their entire sony catalog has just caught up 0:01:50.680 --> 0:01:54.480 with their motown catalog, and that they're self titled seventy 0:01:54.520 --> 0:01:58.200 six album seventy seven is going places and Destiny from 0:01:58.200 --> 0:02:01.840 seventy eight have found, after all these decades, gotten the 0:02:02.560 --> 0:02:08.200 remastered treatment finally on stream platforms, and you know, basically 0:02:08.280 --> 0:02:11.400 words I'd never thought I'd say in this lifetime. Ladies 0:02:11.400 --> 0:02:15.280 and gentlemen, please welcome to Quest Left Supreme the Jacksons. 0:02:15.639 --> 0:02:16.560 Yes, what's that question? 0:02:23.200 --> 0:02:27.720 All right? So you know, slight disclosure, we were cheated 0:02:27.760 --> 0:02:34.040 already by talking to Tito. Actually what our second episode? Correct? 0:02:35.200 --> 0:02:37.960 Since since we've been the iHeart right our second episode, 0:02:38.000 --> 0:02:42.160 so this might be rerun city, but I, you know, 0:02:42.520 --> 0:02:46.800 figure I figure out creative ways to ask these questions. 0:02:47.360 --> 0:02:50.040 I guess my My first question off the bat is 0:02:51.040 --> 0:02:53.800 if one says twenty three hundred Jackson Street, what is 0:02:53.840 --> 0:02:58.240 your first immediate memory that comes to mind automatically? 0:02:58.520 --> 0:03:00.920 Well, this is Morland, So I gonna jump in first. 0:03:01.000 --> 0:03:03.000 Since I'm the youngest out of the out of the 0:03:03.040 --> 0:03:06.079 three here, you should be this should be the last one. 0:03:06.440 --> 0:03:10.200 No brother, not in these days. 0:03:13.360 --> 0:03:13.520 Yes. 0:03:15.880 --> 0:03:18.960 Uh, that house on twenty three hundred Jackson Street, That 0:03:19.040 --> 0:03:21.840 our house in Gary, Indiana. The first thing that pops 0:03:21.840 --> 0:03:25.320 in mind to me that that huge house when I 0:03:25.400 --> 0:03:27.600 was young, and when I go back to visit that 0:03:27.720 --> 0:03:31.160 little house that we all grew up in and we 0:03:31.240 --> 0:03:34.200 all practice. That's where we got our start from from 0:03:34.280 --> 0:03:37.680 that house on the corner of twenty three hundred Jackson Street. 0:03:38.320 --> 0:03:41.520 So you're saying that as a young as a youngster, 0:03:41.640 --> 0:03:44.240 you thought that that was an average sized house. 0:03:45.400 --> 0:03:51.000 No, that was a mansion when we were young. Wow, Yes, 0:03:51.040 --> 0:03:54.640 it sure was. We did everything in that house, played 0:03:54.720 --> 0:03:58.240 hide and seek and rehearse We put the pull the 0:03:58.240 --> 0:04:01.720 furniture back in father with rehearses in the living room. 0:04:01.960 --> 0:04:05.960 It was only a two bedroom house, were eleven people, 0:04:06.480 --> 0:04:09.480 but we managed to make it work. Marlin's garage is 0:04:09.480 --> 0:04:10.360 bigger than that house. 0:04:10.440 --> 0:04:15.760 Right now, Jackie, what do you what are your memories 0:04:15.880 --> 0:04:17.719 of twenty three hundred Jackson Street. 0:04:17.800 --> 0:04:19.719 Well, like Marlon said, you know, it's a place where 0:04:19.720 --> 0:04:21.880 we all grew up in the house and a lot 0:04:21.920 --> 0:04:26.400 of fun memories there loving parents and we love each other. 0:04:26.600 --> 0:04:30.000 We were bonded together. We had a two bedroom house 0:04:30.080 --> 0:04:33.400 and uh, and I remember, you know, in our bedroom 0:04:33.400 --> 0:04:36.040 we had like bump beds that were stacked up together 0:04:36.200 --> 0:04:41.640 like five days, like the three sah yeah, yeah, and 0:04:41.760 --> 0:04:44.800 my sisters, my sisters, they all slept in the living room. 0:04:44.880 --> 0:04:47.920 There was a count's bed that let out, and my 0:04:47.920 --> 0:04:50.000 mother and father slept in the other bedroom. But there 0:04:50.040 --> 0:04:51.680 was a lot of love with a lot of rehearsing 0:04:51.720 --> 0:04:54.480 in that house. We bonded together. And there's a lot 0:04:54.480 --> 0:04:57.120 of small concerts in that house because we had audience 0:04:57.200 --> 0:04:59.680 people coming from the neighborhood speaking in the windows to 0:04:59.760 --> 0:05:03.680 watch and us rehearse every single day and we and uh, 0:05:03.920 --> 0:05:06.880 that was pretty much our audience. And that's us a 0:05:06.880 --> 0:05:07.919 lot of fun memories. 0:05:08.120 --> 0:05:10.560 It was just an open door policy, like one could 0:05:10.680 --> 0:05:13.400 just it just come up to the window. Oh, just 0:05:13.400 --> 0:05:15.080 come to the window, not walk inside the house. 0:05:15.120 --> 0:05:20.000 And no, you can walk inside the route. No, they 0:05:20.000 --> 0:05:22.000 will fight to get the best position in the window 0:05:22.040 --> 0:05:24.400 to look we were doing. 0:05:24.600 --> 0:05:30.560 Yeah, usually and they're watching these rehearsals. Then how how 0:05:30.600 --> 0:05:34.040 long would these rehearsals last? For a couple of hours. 0:05:34.279 --> 0:05:38.919 Yeah, two hours at least, Yeah, sometime three, you know, 0:05:39.080 --> 0:05:40.720 so we get it right, we take a break and 0:05:41.040 --> 0:05:43.160 take a fifteen minute break and go back at it. 0:05:43.120 --> 0:05:43.320 You know. 0:05:43.839 --> 0:05:48.400 Okay, because most of the time we had rehearsals prior 0:05:48.440 --> 0:05:50.520 to doing the gig, because we would gig on the 0:05:50.560 --> 0:05:55.000 weekdays after school. We're rehearsed and go to that gig 0:05:55.080 --> 0:05:59.000 about seven o'clock in the evening in Chicago, what have you? 0:06:00.120 --> 0:06:00.720 Oh? 0:06:01.000 --> 0:06:03.840 Then be back, get back home somewhere around one to 0:06:03.920 --> 0:06:06.120 two in the morning, get up and go to school, 0:06:06.320 --> 0:06:09.520 which I did not mind because when we were when 0:06:09.560 --> 0:06:12.320 we played shows in Chicago, people would throw money on stage, 0:06:12.720 --> 0:06:15.880 and so Michael and I, you know, we're doing splits 0:06:15.920 --> 0:06:18.920 left and right, and we get to keep the money. Shoot. 0:06:19.480 --> 0:06:22.200 So when I went to school, we used to stop 0:06:22.240 --> 0:06:25.200 at the store and get the pocket full of candy, 0:06:25.200 --> 0:06:27.240 then go to class. So Michael and I, we always 0:06:27.320 --> 0:06:31.839 had money. 0:06:30.520 --> 0:06:38.400 In the second grade. Okay, I had a dollar. Wait, 0:06:38.920 --> 0:06:40.520 I wanted to know, I got five. 0:06:40.760 --> 0:06:42.520 Penny, Tino, you got five for a penny back in 0:06:42.520 --> 0:06:43.000 those days. 0:06:43.600 --> 0:06:47.400 Okay, I know that you guys were an official five 0:06:47.480 --> 0:06:51.799 some uh what sixty five? But back when the group 0:06:51.880 --> 0:06:55.120 was just a trio back when it's just Jackie, Tito 0:06:55.800 --> 0:07:01.040 and Jermaine. What was the what was the arrangement of 0:07:01.080 --> 0:07:03.640 the group then, before Marlon and Michael came along, Like. 0:07:03.640 --> 0:07:08.080 Well, we were just basically a bedroom group. We hadn't 0:07:08.200 --> 0:07:11.960 done anything out in the public or anything like that. 0:07:12.040 --> 0:07:17.880 We were just three brothers trying to be the brothers Temptations. 0:07:17.480 --> 0:07:19.440 Trying to figure it out, trying to figure it out. 0:07:19.280 --> 0:07:21.520 Trying trying to figure it out. 0:07:21.800 --> 0:07:25.600 How did temptation sound like this or the Miracles or whoever. 0:07:26.400 --> 0:07:29.560 We were just putting to get you know, getting it together. 0:07:30.400 --> 0:07:33.880 But in a trio situation, who was the lead person? 0:07:33.920 --> 0:07:38.040 Who was the in that particular situation at that time. 0:07:37.960 --> 0:07:40.160 Jermaine was singing a lot of leads because we were 0:07:40.160 --> 0:07:43.560 all singing at that time too. But uh, later on 0:07:43.920 --> 0:07:48.080 then Michael and Marlin joined and Michael came in playing 0:07:48.520 --> 0:07:53.160 you know the Quaker oat millboxes. Oh wow, he called 0:07:53.200 --> 0:07:56.400 to playing the Bungos on that Michael did, and uh, 0:07:56.440 --> 0:07:58.520 he has so much him and Marlin had so much 0:07:59.200 --> 0:08:01.880 dancing ability, the energy. So we decided, hey man, we 0:08:01.920 --> 0:08:03.280 got to put them in the group, you know. 0:08:04.160 --> 0:08:05.920 Okay, yeah, so. 0:08:05.960 --> 0:08:08.920 That's how that started, you know, and so let me 0:08:09.000 --> 0:08:11.120 shove them in the group. And then we started doing 0:08:11.160 --> 0:08:14.600 all these talent shows, you know, all these talent shows. 0:08:14.600 --> 0:08:16.400 In time for my high school, we had a lot 0:08:16.440 --> 0:08:20.080 of talent shows going on. We were join these talent shows, 0:08:20.120 --> 0:08:22.520 rehearsing for the talent shows, and we would win these 0:08:22.520 --> 0:08:27.679 talent shows all all over the regional part of the state, 0:08:27.840 --> 0:08:31.960 you know of Indiana. We go to Michigan, different places 0:08:32.000 --> 0:08:35.240 like that, and uh and just win all these talent shows. 0:08:35.240 --> 0:08:37.440 And on these shows that with Denise Williams when the 0:08:37.480 --> 0:08:39.840 fire was on some of these shows, and you know, 0:08:40.000 --> 0:08:41.360 these talent shows like that. 0:08:41.440 --> 0:08:43.800 You know, I was going to say, yeah, one one 0:08:43.800 --> 0:08:48.319 of the Hutchinson of the Emotions, Yeah, and Sheila I 0:08:48.360 --> 0:08:51.080 believe as well, told us that they would often run 0:08:51.080 --> 0:08:52.240 into you guys doing. 0:08:54.720 --> 0:08:55.720 Yeah, yeah, we did. 0:08:56.640 --> 0:08:59.280 We did what they called the chilling circuit. And actually 0:09:00.080 --> 0:09:03.679 not only them, the O Jay's, it was the Shotlights 0:09:04.360 --> 0:09:08.080 and us and and like you said, the Emotions. And 0:09:08.120 --> 0:09:09.920 we used to do a place in Chico called the 0:09:10.000 --> 0:09:14.040 High Chaparral and Maurice White was with another band and 0:09:14.080 --> 0:09:15.400 they would play. 0:09:15.520 --> 0:09:19.200 It was the drummer was the drummer Box. 0:09:19.280 --> 0:09:24.000 Simmons was the name of that band. It was Yes Simmons. 0:09:24.200 --> 0:09:27.120 And when we did do those places one time I 0:09:27.160 --> 0:09:30.679 remember so well, pig Meat Markham was the main act 0:09:30.840 --> 0:09:36.360 and they would have us on the judge. Yeah. And 0:09:36.440 --> 0:09:39.760 when we did the the Apollo, you know amateur stuff 0:09:40.400 --> 0:09:43.560 you had Moms Maybley or Edda James where the acts 0:09:43.640 --> 0:09:46.640 that came in, or Simon Dave where the headliners and 0:09:47.240 --> 0:09:49.480 came on Amateur Night and did our thing and people 0:09:49.600 --> 0:09:51.640 enjoyed us. How many shows we used to do mar 0:09:53.120 --> 0:09:57.559 what seven shows a night or something seven shows a day? Yeah, yeah, day. 0:09:57.360 --> 0:10:01.120 Really, so you would do Amateur Night each time around 0:10:01.240 --> 0:10:03.280 or was it at some point where you guys were 0:10:03.320 --> 0:10:05.640 sort of out of Amateur Night and just a featured act. 0:10:06.200 --> 0:10:07.120 Where's Amateur Knight? 0:10:07.480 --> 0:10:09.240 It was then? And then we then we would do 0:10:09.280 --> 0:10:12.120 the talent shows and the Five stair Steps. Uh. We 0:10:12.200 --> 0:10:14.840 had a rivalry I guess between us and the Five 0:10:14.840 --> 0:10:16.720 Stairsteps and Michael would cry. 0:10:16.880 --> 0:10:19.840 Michael would cry his butt off because you know, sometime 0:10:19.880 --> 0:10:23.319 before that came on before us, you know, the crowd 0:10:23.320 --> 0:10:24.120 started throwing. 0:10:23.920 --> 0:10:24.880 Eggs at him and stuff. 0:10:24.920 --> 0:10:27.240 I think they were there and Michael would cry, if 0:10:27.280 --> 0:10:28.960 you forget, they're gonna do the same thing to him. 0:10:29.360 --> 0:10:31.400 So we would try to comments and might just do 0:10:31.440 --> 0:10:33.400 your thing. Everything's going to be okay. You know. He 0:10:33.400 --> 0:10:35.400 would cry like a baby because he didn't want them 0:10:35.440 --> 0:10:38.560 throwing eggs on him on stead grabbing a hook and 0:10:38.559 --> 0:10:39.439 hooking them off stage. 0:10:39.480 --> 0:10:40.520 That's what That's what the. 0:10:44.240 --> 0:10:47.679 Sim I was gonna say. I know that. Well, of 0:10:47.679 --> 0:10:50.720 course everyone knows the legend of the Apollo, But for 0:10:50.840 --> 0:10:53.400 those other spots that were in the chintling circuit, like 0:10:54.559 --> 0:10:57.920 either the Regent or the Uptown in Philly or the 0:10:57.960 --> 0:11:01.800 Fox in Detroit, was it also the same way, like 0:11:01.840 --> 0:11:06.240 if you were new you were someone booing you off 0:11:06.240 --> 0:11:08.400 the stage or anything, or was that just the Apollo, 0:11:09.360 --> 0:11:11.480 Like could you relax if you if you were at 0:11:11.600 --> 0:11:13.000 Chicago or any other place? 0:11:13.840 --> 0:11:16.920 It was more so as Paula. But they believe if 0:11:16.960 --> 0:11:17.800 you're not good. 0:11:18.800 --> 0:11:22.720 Regal Theater or wherever uptown, they're gonna bull you. 0:11:22.720 --> 0:11:23.000 You know. 0:11:23.120 --> 0:11:25.360 But but people don't play. 0:11:25.520 --> 0:11:25.800 You know. 0:11:28.640 --> 0:11:30.320 That happened to the Jackson though. 0:11:30.960 --> 0:11:36.800 No, no, no, yeah, we never got the booth. Yeah, 0:11:36.840 --> 0:11:39.760 so uh, we were scared of the booth. So we 0:11:39.840 --> 0:11:42.600 did the best that we could do. I say, stay 0:11:42.600 --> 0:11:43.520 away from that book. 0:11:44.000 --> 0:11:48.840 Wait, yes, Tito, the world kind of knows the story 0:11:48.840 --> 0:11:54.360 of you discovering your your father's guitar. But I always 0:11:54.400 --> 0:11:58.920 wanted to know how was Jermaine able to learn the bass? 0:11:59.640 --> 0:12:01.960 Was it? Is it a similar situation like who taught 0:12:02.000 --> 0:12:03.000 him how to play the bass? 0:12:03.440 --> 0:12:03.640 Well? 0:12:03.679 --> 0:12:08.120 I gave Jamaine based guitar lessons on the bass, based 0:12:08.360 --> 0:12:10.760 notes on the guitar, She'd say, because when my father 0:12:10.840 --> 0:12:14.720 bought him the second guitar, he started playing the guitar 0:12:14.920 --> 0:12:18.760 that I was sneaking from my father and I was showing, 0:12:19.000 --> 0:12:21.920 you know, the little things on the on the on 0:12:22.040 --> 0:12:25.000 the guitar, but it was based up. So he was 0:12:25.040 --> 0:12:28.040 playing bass on the guitar because as you know, the 0:12:28.080 --> 0:12:33.080 first first yes, same same thing, yeah, And. 0:12:33.320 --> 0:12:37.840 Then what he did he started studying James Jamison Motown 0:12:37.840 --> 0:12:41.080 because he listened to Motown songs and he started studying 0:12:41.160 --> 0:12:44.400 James Jamison. He was he used to play just like him, 0:12:44.440 --> 0:12:46.720 Jamaine as a young kid. He I mean, he had 0:12:46.720 --> 0:12:49.160 it down, you know, singing and playing at the same time. 0:12:50.000 --> 0:12:54.040 Okay, So before you guys went to Motown, you were 0:12:54.080 --> 0:12:57.840 on Steeltown. What was the story of Steeltown, Like, who 0:12:57.880 --> 0:13:01.600 owned the label? How did you guys wind wind up 0:13:01.640 --> 0:13:04.600 recording a single for them? 0:13:04.800 --> 0:13:07.679 Well, still Town was just a local record company and 0:13:07.720 --> 0:13:11.320 Gary Ander. We really didn't I guess we were so 0:13:11.480 --> 0:13:13.120 young we didn't know. 0:13:13.600 --> 0:13:14.600 We didn't know a lot. 0:13:15.160 --> 0:13:19.000 My father is basically who took us and was controlled 0:13:19.400 --> 0:13:23.200 all the activities of his little boys at that time 0:13:23.200 --> 0:13:27.880 because we were really really young. I remember seeing a 0:13:27.920 --> 0:13:31.240 picture of h the band recording the song I'm a 0:13:31.280 --> 0:13:35.280 Big Boy Now, and we were all quite small, little kids, 0:13:35.760 --> 0:13:38.200 you know, and it just had. 0:13:38.520 --> 0:13:40.160 One take and that was it. 0:13:40.920 --> 0:13:42.440 I mean right, it was. 0:13:42.480 --> 0:13:46.160 The budget wasn't big, it was nothing. You know. We 0:13:46.200 --> 0:13:48.040 could have recorded this song in our in our. 0:13:47.920 --> 0:13:51.800 Living room, in and out, yeah, in and out. 0:13:52.040 --> 0:13:54.360 Like you said, you were so young, Like, how did 0:13:54.400 --> 0:13:57.000 you look at all the rehearsals and all the shows 0:13:57.040 --> 0:13:59.680 and all the and all the things you were doing. 0:13:59.720 --> 0:14:02.200 Did you did you think it was the most fun 0:14:02.240 --> 0:14:05.319 thing you could do? I mean, I think it is, 0:14:05.360 --> 0:14:09.040 But but at the time, did you think that we had. 0:14:11.160 --> 0:14:14.600 When they say keepers of the dream, we really had dreams. 0:14:14.640 --> 0:14:19.600 We all wanted to be like Jackie Wilson and James 0:14:19.600 --> 0:14:20.680 Brown and the attempts. 0:14:20.760 --> 0:14:24.440 We wanted to be entertain the stars. 0:14:24.560 --> 0:14:29.640 We wanted to go to Holly, California or wherever the 0:14:29.680 --> 0:14:34.320 stars lived and see. It was fun too, that's the 0:14:34.360 --> 0:14:36.840 main thing. We had a lot of fun along the journey. 0:14:37.480 --> 0:14:41.240 But we never realized what the mark was making in 0:14:41.320 --> 0:14:46.200 the world when we were younger, because we were constantly busy, 0:14:46.720 --> 0:14:49.760 and we would go to different parts of the world 0:14:49.840 --> 0:14:54.160 and get back to school and we could tell the 0:14:54.160 --> 0:14:55.760 class everything about the place. 0:14:56.920 --> 0:14:59.320 But don't don't get us wrong, there were times that 0:14:59.360 --> 0:15:01.560 we didn't want to be trust me, We'd rather be 0:15:01.600 --> 0:15:04.200 outside playing. And the kids used to laugh at us 0:15:04.240 --> 0:15:07.040 sometimes and tell us you're not going to get anywhere, 0:15:07.440 --> 0:15:10.400 and and you know with the rehearsing, but my father, 0:15:11.240 --> 0:15:13.560 you know, made sure that we rehearsed before we did 0:15:13.600 --> 0:15:16.360 anything rehearse We used to take breaks sometime and watch 0:15:16.440 --> 0:15:18.840 Batman or the Green Hornet, then back to rehearsal. 0:15:18.920 --> 0:15:20.600 And you are the three stoodents, that's what. 0:15:20.840 --> 0:15:23.800 Oh, yeah, we watched them, dont three stoodents? Yes? 0:15:23.840 --> 0:15:30.040 We did. Did you play any sports in school? 0:15:30.640 --> 0:15:34.040 We played a lot of basketball baseball because the baseball 0:15:34.040 --> 0:15:36.720 field was right behind our house. And if we weren't 0:15:36.840 --> 0:15:39.520 doing music was playing baseball most of the time. That's 0:15:39.560 --> 0:15:39.960 what we did. 0:15:40.400 --> 0:15:43.800 Cricket, cricket in the alley. Yes, cricket. 0:15:44.280 --> 0:15:45.960 Wait, black people play cricket. 0:15:46.880 --> 0:15:49.479 Yeah, yeah, that's crazy. 0:15:49.640 --> 0:15:56.680 Yeah, we played ghetto cricket, but we played it. Describe 0:15:58.000 --> 0:16:00.520 tell them how the game goes wrong. We used to 0:16:00.840 --> 0:16:04.080 set up like three cans on the ground at each end, 0:16:04.680 --> 0:16:07.720 and we had a stick. We all had sticks to bat. 0:16:08.120 --> 0:16:11.360 Either you throw at the can or you roll it 0:16:11.480 --> 0:16:13.640 and you hit the ball and you go back and 0:16:13.680 --> 0:16:16.480 forth counting, and whoever got to a certain point a 0:16:16.520 --> 0:16:20.080 certain number one that won the game. And it gave 0:16:20.120 --> 0:16:23.960 you skills because Jackie and Jermaine and they used to 0:16:24.000 --> 0:16:25.640 try to see if they can hit it all the 0:16:25.640 --> 0:16:28.360 way to the other field over the fence, and they did. 0:16:28.920 --> 0:16:31.600 And you can imagine someone running trying to get that 0:16:31.680 --> 0:16:33.360 ball and throw it back. And if you stick it 0:16:33.520 --> 0:16:35.560 up and they knock down your cans, is that these 0:16:35.600 --> 0:16:40.880 the other teams turn to come up and take a back. 0:16:41.440 --> 0:16:46.360 That's what we did, outside of moving cylinder bros from 0:16:46.360 --> 0:16:48.080 one end of the yard to the other end of 0:16:48.120 --> 0:16:52.120 the yard. Uh choy that my father gave us. 0:16:53.120 --> 0:16:54.400 Yeah, that's not a sport. 0:16:54.600 --> 0:16:58.200 Yeah, yeah, that's exactly what. 0:17:03.440 --> 0:17:08.439 No, Well, when we saw that on uh the American Dream. Uh, 0:17:08.840 --> 0:17:11.920 I guess Jackie had to keep moving the bricks. What 0:17:12.040 --> 0:17:14.960 was that like? Just something to keep you occupied for 0:17:15.000 --> 0:17:15.720 an hour or so. 0:17:15.720 --> 0:17:18.560 Or keep us occupied, keep us, keep us from of 0:17:18.560 --> 0:17:22.000 the gangs being in the streets. Okay it and it 0:17:22.080 --> 0:17:24.239 took all day, It took all took all days. It 0:17:24.280 --> 0:17:27.159 takes no hour. It took all day. And Michael and 0:17:27.200 --> 0:17:29.040 I couldn't pick up one, so the two of us 0:17:29.160 --> 0:17:32.560 carried one. And yeah, he would make us when I 0:17:32.560 --> 0:17:34.439 get home from work, I want to see those bricks 0:17:34.640 --> 0:17:36.880 from that end of the yard to over that other 0:17:36.920 --> 0:17:37.360 in the yard. 0:17:38.560 --> 0:17:42.600 Wow. Okay, So explain to me the environment that was Gary, 0:17:42.680 --> 0:17:48.040 Indiana in the mid sixties, Like, what is what is 0:17:48.080 --> 0:17:50.359 your father trying to keep you from? What is that? 0:17:50.480 --> 0:17:52.720 What is outside of twenty three hundred Jackson Street. 0:17:52.840 --> 0:17:56.520 Well, there were gangs then lurking to recruit new young members. 0:17:56.560 --> 0:17:58.840 And and I guess my father felt that that were 0:17:59.200 --> 0:18:01.720 my son's when I be a member of those gangs. 0:18:01.760 --> 0:18:06.680 So he kept us occupy and and and we did 0:18:06.760 --> 0:18:09.240 go out and play sometime in the streets, hide and 0:18:09.280 --> 0:18:14.080 seek or whatever. But majority of the times we were 0:18:14.160 --> 0:18:18.639 working moving those bricks around or rehearsing. But there were 0:18:18.720 --> 0:18:21.320 gangs sometime, and Jackie and Tito can elaborate on this 0:18:21.400 --> 0:18:24.359 more because I was still in elementary school. 0:18:26.359 --> 0:18:29.439 No, no, there was a lot of gangs around Garry. 0:18:29.640 --> 0:18:30.040 There was. 0:18:31.040 --> 0:18:31.920 They were shooting. 0:18:32.720 --> 0:18:35.879 You're cann be it on your porch at night because 0:18:35.960 --> 0:18:39.800 the ladies of the neighborhood, meaning the mothers, we get 0:18:39.840 --> 0:18:43.320 together and you know they mosquitos are bad, so they 0:18:43.440 --> 0:18:48.479 have a garbage canned fire going and join the smoke, 0:18:48.760 --> 0:18:49.119 keep it. 0:18:49.160 --> 0:18:50.640 And all of a sudden you started hear. 0:18:52.160 --> 0:18:54.840 Cars speeding down the street and people started running and 0:18:55.040 --> 0:18:55.720 duck and soup. 0:18:56.720 --> 0:18:59.000 There was a lot of gang activity around. 0:18:59.040 --> 0:19:01.399 But the gates the games never didn't mess with us. 0:19:01.440 --> 0:19:03.520 They always protected us when we walked through the game. 0:19:05.040 --> 0:19:12.199 Yeah with you guys, Yeah, making some positive noise. I 0:19:12.240 --> 0:19:13.280 guess I don't know. 0:19:14.200 --> 0:19:17.880 Okay, all right, were you guys first generation Gary, Indiana? 0:19:18.000 --> 0:19:20.480 Or were your parents from there as well? I don't remember. 0:19:20.720 --> 0:19:25.760 No, no, no, my parents aren't from there, but they 0:19:26.320 --> 0:19:28.119 were first generation from Gary. 0:19:28.240 --> 0:19:30.840 Yeah, okay, so where were your parents from? I'm just curious. 0:19:30.880 --> 0:19:35.320 I never my mother's from from Arkansas and now my 0:19:35.320 --> 0:19:36.520 father's from Arkansas. 0:19:36.880 --> 0:19:38.160 My mother's from Alabama. 0:19:39.680 --> 0:19:40.200 What city. 0:19:41.040 --> 0:19:45.000 She's a Bama girl. You know, I think I don't. 0:19:45.040 --> 0:19:45.920 I think it's Hurtsboro. 0:19:47.480 --> 0:19:48.480 Okay, I thought it was a mobile. 0:19:50.359 --> 0:19:51.440 Yeah, the Columbus. 0:19:51.720 --> 0:19:53.719 Either way. Her childhood was but so sweet. 0:19:54.400 --> 0:19:57.240 My father from Little Ross. 0:19:58.000 --> 0:20:03.320 Oh okay, oh wow, I read once your that your mom. 0:20:03.600 --> 0:20:05.600 She was like a country western singer that she used 0:20:05.600 --> 0:20:06.320 the sing country. 0:20:06.560 --> 0:20:06.800 Yeah. 0:20:06.880 --> 0:20:09.680 What happened was with that, you know at that time, 0:20:09.760 --> 0:20:12.480 you know, our television broke and we didn't have money 0:20:12.480 --> 0:20:15.480 to get it fixed, you know, so we were we 0:20:15.480 --> 0:20:17.960 were singing. She was an avid country western fan. She 0:20:18.040 --> 0:20:23.280 loved country western music. Yeah yeah, yeah, different people. And 0:20:23.440 --> 0:20:26.679 uh we was harmonized with her singing with her, you know, 0:20:26.800 --> 0:20:30.159 and uh because no television were singing with her. And 0:20:30.480 --> 0:20:33.359 she came to my father one day said, Joe, your 0:20:33.400 --> 0:20:35.080 boys can really see they can harmonize. 0:20:35.080 --> 0:20:37.040 He said, Kate can't, He said, Joe boy. 0:20:40.119 --> 0:20:42.840 So she said, Joe, they really can sing. So he 0:20:42.960 --> 0:20:46.280 is so see. You know, we sung for him and 0:20:46.320 --> 0:20:48.520 he got all excited. That's when he started buying in 0:20:49.200 --> 0:20:51.639 going out, buying instrum as far as all the instruments. 0:20:53.359 --> 0:20:55.720 So when you guys were kids, was he gigging at 0:20:55.760 --> 0:20:58.119 all or was that part of his life done with? 0:20:58.160 --> 0:21:00.399 Because I know that he did a few you. 0:21:01.119 --> 0:21:03.320 When he had a little local band called the Falcons. 0:21:03.359 --> 0:21:05.879 He had a band himself, and if they would come 0:21:05.920 --> 0:21:07.840 over to the house and play with my uncle. His 0:21:07.920 --> 0:21:11.159 brother played guitar and he played guitar, and we used 0:21:11.160 --> 0:21:13.520 to watch them play all the time. Just washed them 0:21:13.600 --> 0:21:16.760 this gig and to us they were like big professionals 0:21:16.760 --> 0:21:19.520 and we watched them all the time and they would 0:21:19.520 --> 0:21:21.440 play at the house. It was great watching them play, 0:21:21.640 --> 0:21:23.840 and that's how we learned about music and just listening 0:21:23.880 --> 0:21:26.760 to all the Motown songs on the radio, stuff like that, 0:21:26.880 --> 0:21:27.320 you know, and. 0:21:27.359 --> 0:21:30.760 It slide in the family stone, yes, lining everybody. Yeah, 0:21:32.040 --> 0:21:32.720 it was amazing. 0:21:33.600 --> 0:21:36.199 So Marlin, I know that you brought it up earlier, 0:21:36.240 --> 0:21:39.760 but I always heard about the legend of Mister Lucky's, 0:21:40.440 --> 0:21:42.520 which I guess was like sort of like your home spot. 0:21:42.560 --> 0:21:48.520 But what yeah, what was Mister Lucky's a strip club 0:21:48.560 --> 0:21:50.880 today or like, no, it wasn't a strip club. 0:21:50.880 --> 0:21:55.320 It was a little nightclub that was Jaroniana and they 0:21:55.920 --> 0:21:59.080 paid us. We got paid eight dollars for our first show, 0:22:00.040 --> 0:22:02.919 the Luckies. That was the first gig that we got paid, 0:22:03.359 --> 0:22:05.960 and we were so happy about it. I mean, but 0:22:06.080 --> 0:22:08.280 eight dollars back in those days take you a long way. 0:22:08.840 --> 0:22:11.880 And those are the shows that Michael and Marlin would 0:22:12.080 --> 0:22:13.760 they would throw money on the floor and they would 0:22:13.800 --> 0:22:16.480 do the splits and grab the money, and and Marlin 0:22:16.560 --> 0:22:20.040 and Tito and I and Jermaine would be because they're 0:22:20.040 --> 0:22:21.840 getting all the money. We weren't getting one there. 0:22:25.280 --> 0:22:30.600 Oh yeah, you know, we've we've heard different accounts, but 0:22:30.640 --> 0:22:33.320 I never heard it from you guys verbatim. I mean, 0:22:33.760 --> 0:22:36.840 I've talked to Gladys Knight and she told me she 0:22:37.040 --> 0:22:42.760 was the one. And then Tommy Chang of chich says 0:22:42.800 --> 0:22:46.359 that you know Bobby, Bobby and the Vancouver's. I didn't 0:22:46.359 --> 0:22:49.320 know that he wrote because you guys did a cover 0:22:49.400 --> 0:22:51.760 of it. I didn't know that he wrote does your 0:22:52.119 --> 0:22:52.560 does your. 0:22:52.440 --> 0:22:53.119 Mama know about it? 0:22:54.320 --> 0:22:57.679 I didn't know that damn Cheaching Chong like Motown or 0:22:57.760 --> 0:23:01.200 Tommy Shang Motown legends. So what is what is the 0:23:01.280 --> 0:23:05.560 real story? I know I know the angle, but who 0:23:05.600 --> 0:23:09.080 literally made it happen? Yes, I'm going to introduce you 0:23:09.080 --> 0:23:11.280 to this person that leaves a barrier. 0:23:11.480 --> 0:23:13.720 I'm gonna set the record straight. I'm gonna set the record. 0:23:13.840 --> 0:23:19.280 Well, well, well, we played a concert in Gary, Indiana 0:23:20.920 --> 0:23:23.960 and uh for our Mayor Richard Gordon Hatchard, who's no 0:23:24.040 --> 0:23:27.879 longer with us, he's at the time, and so he 0:23:28.000 --> 0:23:31.320 was campaigning at the time. Some Gladys Knight was his 0:23:31.320 --> 0:23:34.080 his guest there, you know, and we happen to play 0:23:34.119 --> 0:23:34.800 the same show. 0:23:35.359 --> 0:23:37.280 So she happened she saw us on the. 0:23:37.240 --> 0:23:39.760 Concert and she went back to Barry Gordon to Barry Gordon, 0:23:40.240 --> 0:23:43.160 there's some guys in Indiana that's that's incredible. You've got 0:23:43.160 --> 0:23:46.159 to sign these kids. It was Gladys who discovered us first, 0:23:46.560 --> 0:23:49.480 and Bobby Taylor did this Showlder next year he saw 0:23:49.560 --> 0:23:51.520 us to say, well, he went back to Barry Gordy 0:23:51.640 --> 0:23:54.480 said the same exact thing with both of those people. 0:23:54.840 --> 0:23:57.280 But Dinah Ross was his biggest artist. He's the one 0:23:57.280 --> 0:23:59.400 who brought us out because he was his biggest son 0:24:00.800 --> 0:24:01.600 road and. 0:24:01.520 --> 0:24:03.800 Its us to the World Marketing presenting. 0:24:04.240 --> 0:24:06.560 It was Gladys Knight and Barbetary was the ones who 0:24:06.640 --> 0:24:07.680 discovered us. 0:24:08.080 --> 0:24:12.159 That's true, all right, well, true story, They're true moving 0:24:12.560 --> 0:24:17.760 moving to Los Angeles from Gary, Indiana. How how much 0:24:17.800 --> 0:24:20.159 of a fish out of water situation was that for 0:24:20.800 --> 0:24:25.879 you guys as far as uh watching what the world 0:24:25.880 --> 0:24:26.880 that you see on television? 0:24:26.880 --> 0:24:29.320 Which is hot because I used to watch all the 0:24:29.320 --> 0:24:32.520 football games, and all the football games we got Chicago Bears, 0:24:33.080 --> 0:24:37.320 we got Cleveland Browns, and snowing outside freeze and then 0:24:37.320 --> 0:24:39.440 they were shown in an afternoon game there would show 0:24:39.680 --> 0:24:43.840 San Diego Chargers, Alle's Rams. Right, so I'm watching TV. 0:24:44.040 --> 0:24:46.800 I'm in the snow freezing my butt off, and I'm 0:24:46.840 --> 0:24:49.879 watching TV seeing all these people. They show the palm 0:24:49.880 --> 0:24:52.040 trees and show the people in the stands having a 0:24:52.040 --> 0:24:53.919 great time. I said, that's where I want to go. 0:24:54.119 --> 0:24:56.119 I want to go to Los Angeles. I don't know 0:24:56.160 --> 0:24:57.640 how I'm going to get there, but that's where I'm 0:24:57.640 --> 0:24:59.199 going to go. That's where I want to live. That's 0:24:59.200 --> 0:25:03.480 what I said to about So I don't know, yeah, 0:25:03.680 --> 0:25:05.520 I don't know how I'm going to get there. And 0:25:05.880 --> 0:25:09.280 some kind of way, we were signed with Motown and 0:25:09.400 --> 0:25:12.640 Verry going to decide it to move his office over 0:25:12.760 --> 0:25:15.280 to Los Angeles because he wants to get into the 0:25:15.320 --> 0:25:18.320 film business, right, you know, so he moved his whole 0:25:18.440 --> 0:25:20.800 entire office from Detroit. He still had office, he still 0:25:20.840 --> 0:25:23.760 had office in Detroit, but then moved his operation to 0:25:23.920 --> 0:25:26.760 Los Angeles, California, and he bought us over there with him. 0:25:27.800 --> 0:25:30.320 Was there ever talk of you guys moving to Detroit first? 0:25:30.400 --> 0:25:32.520 To be matter of fact, we did go to Detroit. 0:25:32.720 --> 0:25:36.160 It was in Detroit recording our music first and then 0:25:36.200 --> 0:25:38.359 we went on to We was how long were we 0:25:38.400 --> 0:25:38.800 in Detroit? 0:25:38.800 --> 0:25:39.239 About a year? 0:25:39.320 --> 0:25:42.919 Two years guys recording, about a year. 0:25:43.320 --> 0:25:46.480 We signed with We signed with Motown in nineteen sixty eight, 0:25:46.560 --> 0:25:49.080 but we told everybody, and people didn't believe it were 0:25:49.200 --> 0:25:51.680 because we didn't have any music out. It took over 0:25:51.680 --> 0:25:53.680 a year before we even got in the studio. 0:25:54.400 --> 0:25:55.639 Yeah, longer than that moment. 0:25:56.760 --> 0:25:59.560 Oh okay. So some of that first album was recorded 0:25:59.600 --> 0:26:01.480 at the the Hitsfield studio. 0:26:02.400 --> 0:26:08.119 Yeah, yeah, a lot of it, Yeah, a lot of it. 0:26:08.240 --> 0:26:09.800 The Tempts and all of them would come around. 0:26:09.840 --> 0:26:11.920 We would see all those casts, all those people would 0:26:11.920 --> 0:26:14.199 come around and give us all kinds of support and 0:26:14.200 --> 0:26:17.719 they was, you know, sending hello to us, and Jermaine 0:26:17.800 --> 0:26:19.920 was trying to hit on Barry Gordy's door at the time. 0:26:20.040 --> 0:26:28.640 Jamames you succeeded. Yes, one question I had. 0:26:28.680 --> 0:26:30.720 If I'm Jackie, you're the oldest, you may have the 0:26:30.720 --> 0:26:32.679 best memory of it. I was always curious to know 0:26:32.720 --> 0:26:36.360 about the corporation Freddy Parry and Larry Mizell. 0:26:37.560 --> 0:26:39.680 Do you have any riches of working with those guys 0:26:39.680 --> 0:26:40.280 Deep Richards. 0:26:40.359 --> 0:26:44.120 Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. 0:26:44.119 --> 0:26:46.040 They had just got out of they had just got 0:26:46.080 --> 0:26:51.360 up college from Howard the University, just graduate from Howard University, 0:26:51.600 --> 0:26:55.159 and they were incredible. There were incredible musician songwriters, and 0:26:55.240 --> 0:26:58.760 Barry Gordy put them with us and we used. 0:26:58.640 --> 0:27:01.800 To laugh at pretty pears and finds myself because they 0:27:01.840 --> 0:27:04.200 were We would go into the studio, we see them 0:27:04.480 --> 0:27:13.159 and they on a little mope head scooter, two of them, right, yeah, 0:27:13.359 --> 0:27:23.399 you know yeah yeah, and we pass them up on 0:27:23.440 --> 0:27:25.639 the street and they were coming to the studio. But 0:27:26.040 --> 0:27:26.879 they had to hit. 0:27:29.760 --> 0:27:34.159 A lot of our especially from a hip hop perspective. 0:27:34.440 --> 0:27:37.520 I mean, I don't think a lot of people, uh 0:27:38.400 --> 0:27:42.760 are contemporaries even equate that. You know, the Mazel Brothers 0:27:43.600 --> 0:27:45.960 their their seventies and all the stuff that they did 0:27:46.040 --> 0:27:48.760 on Blue Note Records, you know, with Donald Bird and 0:27:48.800 --> 0:27:50.159 even the stuff they did with like a Taste of 0:27:50.160 --> 0:27:52.960 Honey and all that stuff, like, I don't think they 0:27:53.040 --> 0:27:55.960 even equate that these are the same guys that also 0:27:56.040 --> 0:27:58.200 wrote I Want You Back, I want you Back in 0:27:58.480 --> 0:27:59.120 all those. 0:27:58.880 --> 0:28:01.560 Things, love you Say and all that. Oh yeah, they were. 0:28:01.440 --> 0:28:05.159 Incredible and they don't even know that their nephew was 0:28:05.760 --> 0:28:09.080 jam Master J from Run DMC. They never put two 0:28:09.119 --> 0:28:12.760 and two together with that. But yeah, so yeah, I 0:28:12.800 --> 0:28:15.520 was gonna say, when you first get to Motown, what 0:28:15.760 --> 0:28:21.440 is what is the basic uh work operation as far 0:28:21.480 --> 0:28:22.679 as you guys learning songs? 0:28:22.720 --> 0:28:26.080 Because well, let me be, let me, let me bag 0:28:26.119 --> 0:28:28.840 it up for you. I think you find it interesting. 0:28:29.920 --> 0:28:33.520 From from from Gary, Indiana, mm hmm. We went to 0:28:33.800 --> 0:28:39.120 Detroit to audition for Barry Cordy, right, and so we 0:28:39.160 --> 0:28:43.160 did a lot of Motown songs. And so Barry had 0:28:43.200 --> 0:28:45.800 this huge house, had a golf course in the backyard 0:28:45.960 --> 0:28:49.280 and the back nine head indoor swimming pool. You go 0:28:49.400 --> 0:28:54.280 down downstairs for all all the gangs. And so we 0:28:54.360 --> 0:28:57.080 get into Michael and I playing in the pool having 0:28:57.120 --> 0:29:00.720 a great time. Jackie walking around. Biden is nails damn 0:29:00.720 --> 0:29:03.200 it ate up his fingers because he was so nervous 0:29:04.120 --> 0:29:06.320 and he used to get after Michael and I this 0:29:06.440 --> 0:29:08.800 is serious, guy, this is our chance. You'll fooling around 0:29:08.840 --> 0:29:11.360 playing with all the games and stuff. Get serious. I 0:29:11.360 --> 0:29:13.400 mean we were kids, and all of a sudden we 0:29:13.480 --> 0:29:14.800 get ready to do our show. 0:29:15.440 --> 0:29:19.720 We all of us were back, all of our equipment 0:29:19.760 --> 0:29:21.120 was set up around the pool. 0:29:25.720 --> 0:29:28.960 Jackie let me back up because Martins, we had already 0:29:29.000 --> 0:29:34.400 auditioned from Hotown the day before. Very decided, yeah, I 0:29:34.440 --> 0:29:37.280 want to sign these kids. So he acts. He said, 0:29:37.320 --> 0:29:41.520 tomorrow's Dining Ross's birthday. I'm having a party for her 0:29:42.040 --> 0:29:43.280 at my house, and. 0:29:43.200 --> 0:29:45.880 I want you guys to perform. 0:29:46.040 --> 0:29:48.600 And so we round the at this party. 0:29:48.680 --> 0:29:50.160 Tell him who was at the party. Man. 0:29:51.400 --> 0:29:54.120 We run the pool waiting and we do a lot 0:29:54.120 --> 0:29:55.680 of more times, and all of a sudden, I see 0:29:55.720 --> 0:30:00.400 Marvin Gate come to the Temps. The Temps walk through 0:30:00.400 --> 0:30:07.120 the door. Then Daniel ros Stevie Wonder, Smokey Robinson, the 0:30:07.760 --> 0:30:09.080 four Times come through the door. 0:30:09.680 --> 0:30:13.320 And we've got to sing their songs. That's all the 0:30:13.360 --> 0:30:15.320 songs we knew, that's all the big hits. 0:30:15.080 --> 0:30:15.560 On the radio. 0:30:15.600 --> 0:30:18.720 We didn't have any new original material. Were singing all 0:30:18.720 --> 0:30:20.440 these Motown songs in front. 0:30:20.200 --> 0:30:21.920 Of their right David roughing, come in. 0:30:23.040 --> 0:30:25.800 Wow, you know this is the first time you made. 0:30:28.000 --> 0:30:30.000 Yeah, it's the first time. We mean yeah, first time, 0:30:30.560 --> 0:30:32.320 and this is their first time seeing us and we're 0:30:32.320 --> 0:30:33.040 doing their stuff. 0:30:37.040 --> 0:30:39.000 I assume that the show went well because you're here 0:30:39.080 --> 0:30:42.360 right now talking about it. Yes, try out by fire. 0:30:42.800 --> 0:30:45.840 How much you older? Were guys like Marvin Gay and 0:30:45.920 --> 0:30:47.760 Smoky than you at that time? 0:30:48.200 --> 0:30:50.880 All they had about fifteen, ten and fifteen years? 0:30:52.080 --> 0:30:52.280 Yes? 0:30:52.880 --> 0:30:55.239 Should should they were. Stevie was kind of appear right, 0:30:55.760 --> 0:30:56.040 kind of. 0:30:56.160 --> 0:30:59.520 Yeah, well, yeah, I think Jackie, you were like fifteen 0:30:59.600 --> 0:31:00.600 or sixty at the time. 0:31:03.960 --> 0:31:07.120 I heard your sister mentioned that Stevie actually might be 0:31:07.240 --> 0:31:08.880 related to you guys. Is that true. 0:31:10.320 --> 0:31:11.640 He's on my mom's side of Yes. 0:31:13.040 --> 0:31:14.200 When did y'all find this out? 0:31:14.200 --> 0:31:17.240 A lot of people don't know that my first cousin. Second, 0:31:20.680 --> 0:31:22.760 you got to ask my mom. But all this is 0:31:23.000 --> 0:31:25.440 to me, this is funny because we were we were 0:31:25.480 --> 0:31:29.040 somewhere and Stevie tells them, uh, And I was talking 0:31:29.120 --> 0:31:31.840 with Stevie this is at my at my father's funeral, 0:31:32.440 --> 0:31:34.480 and then then all the way he told me, he said, Amelia, 0:31:35.280 --> 0:31:37.640 give them all on my numbers since we because. 0:31:43.720 --> 0:31:45.360 Does he call in the morning as well. 0:31:50.200 --> 0:31:53.200 Yeah, we we you know, I've been we've been blessed. 0:31:53.240 --> 0:31:56.360 We had some great times. You know, it's what you 0:31:56.480 --> 0:31:59.200 do with that time and how you treat it. And 0:31:59.280 --> 0:32:00.720 we've had some great times. 0:32:01.360 --> 0:32:03.560 Okay, I'm sorry, I got to follow up on this. 0:32:03.680 --> 0:32:04.600 So did you and Stevie? 0:32:05.560 --> 0:32:07.120 Did you guys and Stevie want to know you were 0:32:07.200 --> 0:32:10.320 cousins back then or did this come up recently? 0:32:10.680 --> 0:32:12.520 No, we did not know. Matter of fact, Stevie did 0:32:12.520 --> 0:32:14.600 a couple of songs on us during the Motown days 0:32:15.240 --> 0:32:18.200 and and uh, we didn't know that we were cousins. 0:32:18.680 --> 0:32:20.640 And those songs that Stevie did on us, they were 0:32:20.680 --> 0:32:27.760 never released, you know. And I think Butterfly, no butter Cup, 0:32:28.600 --> 0:32:31.960 but not that you have not nothing, nothing song. That's 0:32:32.040 --> 0:32:32.720 one question is. 0:32:32.720 --> 0:32:36.800 Talking about, well, you're supposed to keep your love for 0:32:36.920 --> 0:32:41.760 me from the original? Was there any other besides butter Club? 0:32:43.640 --> 0:32:46.960 Of course, Buttercup, you're supposed to keep your love for me. 0:32:47.640 --> 0:32:49.440 I think there was one or two more other ones. 0:32:49.480 --> 0:32:52.760 I forgot, man, we did so many songs. Motown got 0:32:52.840 --> 0:32:55.160 so many songs that we we can when I hear 0:32:55.320 --> 0:32:58.959 so we did that, right. We lived in the studio. 0:32:59.200 --> 0:33:02.120 That's what I want to get to you guys. I've 0:33:02.240 --> 0:33:05.800 seen at least the the Motown faults. I've seen them 0:33:06.880 --> 0:33:11.200 and seen the catalogs, and to me, it's staggering. How 0:33:11.240 --> 0:33:11.600 big is it? 0:33:11.640 --> 0:33:12.600 A mirrorkel people? Please? 0:33:12.600 --> 0:33:14.160 You know we want to be I mean, you know, 0:33:14.480 --> 0:33:16.520 it was over two hundred songs, but the thing is 0:33:16.720 --> 0:33:21.680 like they're two hundred completed songs and half the stuff 0:33:21.720 --> 0:33:24.680 didn't see the light of day, So like, what is 0:33:25.600 --> 0:33:29.560 can you walk me through how you guys get Like 0:33:29.680 --> 0:33:31.360 do you have like mere seconds to learn it? Do 0:33:31.440 --> 0:33:33.040 you at least get a work tape the night before 0:33:33.120 --> 0:33:34.360 to figure out your arrangements? 0:33:37.280 --> 0:33:38.800 We walked through to we go in the studio. 0:33:38.920 --> 0:33:42.400 They put this off to school after school, Jack, we 0:33:42.560 --> 0:33:47.080 go after schools the studio recording the studio right and 0:33:47.160 --> 0:33:49.560 the recording studio was right around the corner, right on 0:33:49.760 --> 0:33:52.680 Fair Facts, And half the kids at the school never 0:33:52.760 --> 0:33:55.200 knew that we were going to the recording studio recording 0:33:55.280 --> 0:33:57.920 I Want You Back ABC. They didn't know that not 0:33:58.080 --> 0:34:02.480 even a block away was recording to him record these songs. 0:34:03.120 --> 0:34:04.920 And they put up the track and we learned it 0:34:05.080 --> 0:34:08.200 and singing and all that we pretty much do a 0:34:08.239 --> 0:34:10.480 song today, but we came back to finish it the 0:34:10.640 --> 0:34:14.080 next day. The really really completed finish it the next day. 0:34:14.080 --> 0:34:15.520 It took us while a day and a half to 0:34:15.560 --> 0:34:16.480 finish the whole song. 0:34:16.560 --> 0:34:19.600 That's what because we had and the reason being is 0:34:19.640 --> 0:34:22.400 that we were youngsters and we had a social worker 0:34:22.600 --> 0:34:25.160 that came with us, so she made sure that they 0:34:25.200 --> 0:34:27.880 didn't work us over three hours, so they only we 0:34:28.000 --> 0:34:29.560 only had three hours to you. 0:34:30.560 --> 0:34:35.120 Yes, you did all that work in the three hours. Yeah. Yeah, 0:34:37.040 --> 0:34:38.120 that's a lot of songs. 0:34:38.520 --> 0:34:40.799 And Michael was going there and Michael would ad lib 0:34:41.000 --> 0:34:43.239 and do his own ada libs, and he made all 0:34:43.320 --> 0:34:45.680 that stuff at all this at the end of that's him. 0:34:46.080 --> 0:34:48.040 They didn't tell him that he made up all that stuff. 0:34:48.480 --> 0:34:48.640 Yeah. 0:34:49.080 --> 0:34:50.560 Wow, that's exhausting. 0:34:50.640 --> 0:34:53.440 So yeah, So and that was every that was almost 0:34:53.480 --> 0:34:58.000 every day, yeah, weekends, yeah, even the weekends. 0:34:58.680 --> 0:34:59.720 Weekends were longer. 0:35:00.400 --> 0:35:00.600 Yeah. 0:35:02.080 --> 0:35:04.880 So the next day we come back to school on Monday, 0:35:04.920 --> 0:35:09.120 and we're on the Ed Sullivant Show and all we 0:35:09.239 --> 0:35:11.360 come back to school and all the kids noticed that 0:35:11.760 --> 0:35:16.200 wait a minute, these after Jackson's they noticed us being 0:35:16.239 --> 0:35:18.760 on the Air Sullivant Show. We go back to school. 0:35:18.800 --> 0:35:21.520 The next day, I'm in the classroom and all of 0:35:21.520 --> 0:35:23.799 a sudden, I'm in the classroom, sitting in the classroom, 0:35:24.160 --> 0:35:26.960 and all these kids from all the other schools come 0:35:27.040 --> 0:35:29.680 to come to Fairfax High School from all the other 0:35:29.800 --> 0:35:32.239 kids come over and just streaming at to do the 0:35:32.280 --> 0:35:35.200 screen like pandemonium. And the kids wondered, what's going on? 0:35:36.480 --> 0:35:37.440 Why they screaming? 0:35:37.840 --> 0:35:40.239 Or they saw me in the classroom and they start 0:35:40.360 --> 0:35:42.640 screaming like crazy. They didn't know we were the jacks 0:35:42.680 --> 0:35:46.000 if they didn't. Now, let me tell you something. This 0:35:46.200 --> 0:35:49.960 is my first time hearing Jackie's story about that, and 0:35:50.080 --> 0:35:52.680 I have to say, Michael and I we were going 0:35:52.719 --> 0:35:56.160 to Emerson Junior High School and we were the same. 0:35:56.239 --> 0:35:59.760 Thing happened to us and to the point that kids 0:36:00.160 --> 0:36:03.040 started going crazy and they had to pull us out 0:36:03.080 --> 0:36:06.600 of school because we were disrupting class the whole school, 0:36:06.640 --> 0:36:08.200 and they put us in private school. 0:36:09.120 --> 0:36:11.759 So you went to a regular school first, Yeah, we 0:36:11.840 --> 0:36:15.320 went to regularly. No other contemporaries of yours were in 0:36:15.719 --> 0:36:17.479 like Fairfax Hide, none of these Sames. 0:36:18.040 --> 0:36:19.920 No we went I went to when I when we 0:36:20.000 --> 0:36:22.800 got here, nobody knew who the Jackson five were. So 0:36:23.120 --> 0:36:26.480 I went to Bancroft Junior High. Michael went to Gardenet 0:36:26.920 --> 0:36:31.480 I mean Gardener Gardener Elementary School, then the Falling Street 0:36:32.239 --> 0:36:35.600 Michael and I went went over to Emerson Junior High. 0:36:35.880 --> 0:36:38.320 We only was able to go for two weeks because 0:36:39.200 --> 0:36:42.960 we were disrupting the classes and the kids were going crazy. 0:36:44.239 --> 0:36:48.279 Wow, So you didn't get uh so, what's the like 0:36:48.680 --> 0:36:50.920 in private school? Is it more different because all of 0:36:50.960 --> 0:36:53.640 you are industry kids or we were. 0:36:53.520 --> 0:36:57.239 Going to school with with some of the main celebrity kids. 0:36:57.280 --> 0:37:00.400 They would go to the same school with us, and 0:37:01.640 --> 0:37:04.920 even well, this is a funny story, Joe McClean to 0:37:05.600 --> 0:37:06.800 if you know who John McLean is. 0:37:09.200 --> 0:37:14.319 Wait, this is what you're gonna get. The most elusive 0:37:15.120 --> 0:37:19.040 we've been dying to get it on the Show's John MacLean. 0:37:19.520 --> 0:37:23.359 Oh so John, So John to tell history. He said 0:37:23.880 --> 0:37:28.640 his mom brought him to this private school and he said, Mom, I. 0:37:28.640 --> 0:37:29.440 Don't go here. 0:37:29.680 --> 0:37:31.560 I don't want to really good, I don't want to 0:37:31.600 --> 0:37:34.640 go here. And John said, all of a sudden, he's 0:37:35.200 --> 0:37:40.919 he loves Tito. Walking across, he said, Tito Jackson, Hey, mom, 0:37:41.000 --> 0:37:41.439 I'm fine. 0:37:41.520 --> 0:37:51.440 I tell y'all. 0:37:51.480 --> 0:37:54.120 Popularity. Did everybody have to go to the special school now, 0:37:54.200 --> 0:37:56.040 like the girls too. And I don't know if Randy 0:37:56.200 --> 0:37:58.480 was here by now, but everybody just have to. 0:38:00.520 --> 0:38:04.960 Yeah, eventually they did, Yes, yes, they did eventually. Yeah, 0:38:06.000 --> 0:38:09.239 But you know, it's it's that's what took place. That's 0:38:09.280 --> 0:38:10.239 what happened with us. 0:38:10.960 --> 0:38:19.560 It's you know, I know that your parents' concerns over 0:38:19.719 --> 0:38:24.120 gang culture in Indiana was one thing, but most of 0:38:24.280 --> 0:38:26.400 us that don't live in Los Angeles, most of us, 0:38:26.840 --> 0:38:30.160 especially when you're thinking of like for young black people, 0:38:30.719 --> 0:38:33.000 like gang culture was a part of life, Like, how 0:38:33.160 --> 0:38:33.960 is that avoided? 0:38:34.840 --> 0:38:38.239 Well, my father made sure. I mean he laid down 0:38:38.280 --> 0:38:41.120 the law. M hm, that's it. We had to be 0:38:41.200 --> 0:38:47.480 inside before the street lights came on to Yeah, that's 0:38:47.760 --> 0:38:48.120 supposed to. 0:38:50.120 --> 0:38:51.560 That's how I came up to the same thing. 0:38:52.400 --> 0:38:55.080 The street You better not get caught up that would 0:38:55.080 --> 0:38:55.800 do street lights on. 0:38:58.239 --> 0:39:03.080 So okay, was it still okay? What was what was 0:39:03.160 --> 0:39:07.279 the chores situation at the house, Like was that yeah, 0:39:07.600 --> 0:39:10.120 I mean I'm certain that you sure had to. 0:39:10.920 --> 0:39:15.360 Oh yeah, we had to. We had chores. We had chores. 0:39:15.440 --> 0:39:18.520 We had to wash the dishes. Even even after we 0:39:18.800 --> 0:39:21.000 made it with the Jackson five and came out. We 0:39:21.080 --> 0:39:21.840 still had chores. 0:39:22.320 --> 0:39:24.920 Well, y'all still lived in the house together, right, So yeah. 0:39:24.880 --> 0:39:29.239 So yeah, it was I think Michael and I week 0:39:29.280 --> 0:39:32.359 to do the dishes, and Jackie and somebody else had 0:39:32.400 --> 0:39:35.200 a week. Yeah, somebody you know had a week. 0:39:35.960 --> 0:39:36.560 Yeah, there was. 0:39:38.280 --> 0:39:39.480 Yeah, we had chores. 0:39:40.000 --> 0:39:43.399 Is the family resident still uho? Is that still where 0:39:43.680 --> 0:39:45.160 your mother is? Yeah? 0:39:45.239 --> 0:39:48.839 But if we were on Queen's Road, yeah, we were 0:39:48.880 --> 0:39:53.240 on Queen's Yeah. And we first got here, we were 0:39:53.320 --> 0:39:58.400 on Queen's Road. Well, we first stayed at the Tropicana Motel, 0:39:59.400 --> 0:40:02.560 a whole on Santa Monic because that on Santa Monica, 0:40:02.600 --> 0:40:03.880 Little Santa Monica or something like that. 0:40:04.960 --> 0:40:07.080 And when I got there, the first time I got 0:40:07.120 --> 0:40:09.719 the cat of Los Angeles, I couldn't believe how people 0:40:09.760 --> 0:40:11.880 were living. Almost cried, I said, even. 0:40:11.800 --> 0:40:14.480 Living like this all all my life, living this. 0:40:14.560 --> 0:40:17.840 Good life like this and driving Ferrari and roll voyages 0:40:17.960 --> 0:40:20.560 down the street. I mean it was just amazing. I mean, 0:40:21.480 --> 0:40:23.840 people living in the hills and the palm trees and 0:40:24.239 --> 0:40:27.720 you know what I'm saying, and I'm guarante Ana freezing 0:40:27.840 --> 0:40:30.040 my boat off and these people living like this. 0:40:33.239 --> 0:40:36.000 We lived that, we lived in the Tropicana for a while, 0:40:36.520 --> 0:40:40.440 and then uh believe before we went to Queen's Road, 0:40:41.120 --> 0:40:46.120 we lived with Donna Ross. Yeah, yeah, and she she 0:40:46.320 --> 0:40:51.279 had she had a house with white carpet everywhere and 0:40:51.400 --> 0:40:53.960 white walls. I think some of the furniture was white. 0:40:55.040 --> 0:40:57.360 And she she tore up the house with us. 0:40:57.440 --> 0:41:00.160 We all told that the paint on the wall and 0:41:00.360 --> 0:41:01.160 paints the walls like. 0:41:02.080 --> 0:41:04.560 She was like, yeah, yeah, we had fun. 0:41:04.719 --> 0:41:04.959 Yeah. 0:41:05.280 --> 0:41:07.080 They also had a lot of money, but you sad 0:41:07.080 --> 0:41:07.840 a lot of money. 0:41:15.440 --> 0:41:15.600 Like that. 0:41:16.239 --> 0:41:18.480 Yeah, I was for the other side of the story. 0:41:18.640 --> 0:41:20.680 Mary Wilson would come over to the house. It was 0:41:20.760 --> 0:41:24.520 so kind of so it's amazing. Mary would come over, 0:41:24.880 --> 0:41:25.080 you know. 0:41:25.200 --> 0:41:32.200 For how's my babies. So we you know, we were 0:41:32.280 --> 0:41:34.960 young kids, but we had fun and they made sure 0:41:35.000 --> 0:41:37.279 that we had fun too. I mean, you know, they 0:41:37.440 --> 0:41:38.880 used to pick us up and take us to the 0:41:38.960 --> 0:41:42.720 movies sometime down matter of fact, down Ross pick Michael 0:41:42.760 --> 0:41:46.200 and I up when she first had her first baby, 0:41:46.520 --> 0:41:49.200 and this is where she lived on Maple and Beverly Hills, 0:41:49.760 --> 0:41:53.160 and we all went upstairs. We were all went upstairs 0:41:53.200 --> 0:41:55.800 and she wanted us to paint some drapes because she 0:41:55.920 --> 0:41:58.240 was having a baby, our first kid. So we painted 0:41:58.280 --> 0:42:00.879 the drapes and do figures on it for the kid 0:42:01.520 --> 0:42:02.759 and we had a great time. 0:42:03.320 --> 0:42:03.960 You know, we're. 0:42:06.560 --> 0:42:07.320 I mean really. 0:42:09.760 --> 0:42:13.160 Well, I want to know from Tito and Jackie because 0:42:13.200 --> 0:42:16.480 you two are older, I guess in my mind, because 0:42:16.480 --> 0:42:20.280 I see the Jackson's as kind of the first family 0:42:20.680 --> 0:42:25.759 of post civil rights movement, like all the struggle that 0:42:25.920 --> 0:42:28.400 happened before nineteen sixty eight, Like you guys are the 0:42:28.440 --> 0:42:33.040 first to flourish and to post civil rights activity, but 0:42:33.120 --> 0:42:37.279 you guys are also teenagers in Los Angeles and you're 0:42:37.320 --> 0:42:41.359 successful at that. So I'm certain that there's also moments where, 0:42:41.560 --> 0:42:45.040 like you're in situations in which you're the only black 0:42:45.120 --> 0:42:50.840 person there, or you're driving an elaborate car that normally 0:42:51.080 --> 0:42:54.200 isn't you know, associated with people that look like you. 0:42:55.040 --> 0:42:59.920 Like how hard was it to navigate in Los Angeles 0:43:01.200 --> 0:43:03.480 ass teenagers where it's not so cute? I mean, it's 0:43:03.520 --> 0:43:06.560 one thing when it's like Marlon and Michael, who are 0:43:06.640 --> 0:43:11.919 like eleven twelve younger. Was it different for a young 0:43:12.040 --> 0:43:15.279 black teenager in nineteen seventy two, seventy three, seventy four, 0:43:15.400 --> 0:43:16.720 like the first half of the seventies. 0:43:17.160 --> 0:43:23.120 I had an experience once when I was about I 0:43:23.280 --> 0:43:23.640 was in my. 0:43:25.120 --> 0:43:30.000 Late teens or early twenties, and I had got myself 0:43:30.040 --> 0:43:33.680 for the Mercedes three fifty essayl I think it was. 0:43:33.840 --> 0:43:38.680 And that's when I had stopped to get gasoline for 0:43:38.800 --> 0:43:42.319 my automobile. And this is the time when they put 0:43:42.480 --> 0:43:43.319 gas in your car. 0:43:44.400 --> 0:43:46.160 You didn't have to do it, they do it for you. 0:43:47.040 --> 0:43:49.839 And I pull in that I say, what do you want? 0:43:49.960 --> 0:43:52.680 I said, fill it up? And can you check the oil? 0:43:53.920 --> 0:43:59.520 So I pulled the lever for the thing, and you know, 0:43:59.640 --> 0:44:02.440 all of you know, there's two levers. There's one outside 0:44:02.480 --> 0:44:05.160 as well. So got yankee and I say, whoa, whoa, 0:44:05.560 --> 0:44:08.719 let me let me And so I go out and 0:44:08.719 --> 0:44:11.279 show him how to do it too. He slams my hood, 0:44:12.200 --> 0:44:16.320 then polls, pumps my gas and drip gas all on 0:44:16.440 --> 0:44:20.880 the side of my car and then takes Then I 0:44:21.000 --> 0:44:24.640 go inside and I noticed he's calling it on my 0:44:24.719 --> 0:44:27.560 credit card. So I told him, I said, I don't 0:44:27.600 --> 0:44:30.960 want to pay for the service. So he goes to 0:44:31.080 --> 0:44:33.360 the people and he wait a minute. He goes to 0:44:33.480 --> 0:44:36.440 a drawer, pulls out a gun, holds it to my 0:44:36.640 --> 0:44:40.360 head and said sign it. Of course, I signed it. 0:44:40.480 --> 0:44:44.200 I signed it. I immediately, this is before cell phones. 0:44:44.680 --> 0:44:47.399 I go to a stop as a phone, both call 0:44:47.520 --> 0:44:53.360 our security Bill Braid Bill, who's a detective. He rushes 0:44:53.440 --> 0:44:57.680 out to Chatsworth where I was immediately and go to 0:44:57.800 --> 0:45:01.040 the police station, playing the story to them. 0:45:01.560 --> 0:45:05.480 They go over to the station, picks up the guy 0:45:05.840 --> 0:45:10.319 and come back and then they tell us that if we. 0:45:10.680 --> 0:45:14.160 If we arrest this man, we're gonna have to rest 0:45:14.280 --> 0:45:18.520 mister Jackson too, for not for refusing to pay for service. 0:45:19.680 --> 0:45:20.640 So the guy walked. 0:45:21.200 --> 0:45:24.479 That's that's how that's how it ended. Yep, of course 0:45:24.560 --> 0:45:24.880 it was. 0:45:25.400 --> 0:45:28.160 And this guy, I guess he. 0:45:28.320 --> 0:45:31.440 Wasn't used to seeing the young black guy of color, 0:45:31.680 --> 0:45:32.640 whether he's young or not. 0:45:32.920 --> 0:45:36.080 You know, it was such a nice automobile because back 0:45:36.120 --> 0:45:40.520 then those Mercedes were very high items and I was 0:45:40.560 --> 0:45:42.399 the only nineteen driving one. 0:45:42.520 --> 0:45:44.200 So well, my my. 0:45:44.400 --> 0:45:48.719 Story is is a little different. This is we had 0:45:48.760 --> 0:45:53.800 our TV show, The Jackson Show, and yeah, and you know, 0:45:54.360 --> 0:45:57.120 and we lived in the Sino and a lot of 0:45:57.200 --> 0:46:00.680 time we were shooting that shows somewhere and not at 0:46:00.719 --> 0:46:03.480 the CBS slot, but somewhere else. So I will come 0:46:03.520 --> 0:46:05.960 through Beverly Hills and over the hill to go home. 0:46:07.040 --> 0:46:12.560 And my first car was a Porsche. A Porsche and 0:46:12.640 --> 0:46:14.759 the police saw me driving, so he pulls me over 0:46:16.280 --> 0:46:18.680 and he walks up to the car and said, is 0:46:18.760 --> 0:46:23.960 this your car? I said yes. He said, driver's license 0:46:24.040 --> 0:46:25.920 such and such. I gave it to him. He sees 0:46:26.040 --> 0:46:29.560 Encino on it. Why are you going home this way? 0:46:31.440 --> 0:46:33.319 And I'm looking like, what do you mean while I'm 0:46:33.360 --> 0:46:37.640 going home this way? And yeah, you can go home 0:46:37.680 --> 0:46:38.760 any kind of way you want. 0:46:38.640 --> 0:46:40.839 To, and who says, I'm going home right? 0:46:41.400 --> 0:46:44.040 And then and then he says, well, where you get 0:46:44.040 --> 0:46:46.640 the money to buy a car like this from? And 0:46:46.719 --> 0:46:48.840 I tell him, you know, I'm an artist. I do 0:46:49.000 --> 0:46:53.600 records and whatever. And he wrote me up some phony 0:46:53.680 --> 0:46:57.120 ticke wrote me up a ticket for whatever it said. 0:46:57.719 --> 0:46:59.520 I gave it to our people to take care of. 0:47:00.160 --> 0:47:03.319 But I think Jackie, all of us used to get 0:47:03.360 --> 0:47:08.600 pulled over all the time, asking us, uh, I got 0:47:08.640 --> 0:47:12.640 a real funny story for you after this? Used to uh, 0:47:13.400 --> 0:47:15.680 used to give us tickets and pull us over just 0:47:15.760 --> 0:47:19.040 to harass us. But here's my real funny story. This 0:47:19.160 --> 0:47:22.000 story is so funny that I could Jackie, you know, 0:47:22.080 --> 0:47:26.279 don't get a tell. So Michael's first car was a 0:47:26.400 --> 0:47:30.840 Rose Royce. Right, he was, and he was eighteen. But 0:47:31.560 --> 0:47:36.960 Michael he parked anywhere. He didn't know. So one day 0:47:37.000 --> 0:47:40.640 I'm he didn't care. I'm driving down the street. I 0:47:40.760 --> 0:47:43.200 thought it was so funny. I'm driving down the street. 0:47:43.280 --> 0:47:45.440 And the police got Michael handcuffed to a bench. 0:47:52.080 --> 0:47:52.360 He was. 0:47:54.840 --> 0:48:02.280 Because he had a lot of parking tickets. Did you stop? 0:48:03.440 --> 0:48:05.240 They never heard that story. 0:48:05.960 --> 0:48:07.640 Journalists are asking the wrong questions. 0:48:10.480 --> 0:48:13.960 Yeah, yeah I did. But you couldn't say. You couldn't 0:48:13.960 --> 0:48:16.839 say too much. And and they let they let him 0:48:16.880 --> 0:48:19.120 go after it. I mean, you know, it's back in 0:48:19.160 --> 0:48:20.239 those days. You could you. 0:48:20.280 --> 0:48:22.200 Couldn't say you pull up the street and you're just 0:48:22.239 --> 0:48:23.680 looking from behind in the mirror. 0:48:24.480 --> 0:48:27.919 Right, yes, tell him the story. 0:48:28.000 --> 0:48:31.600 When we went down to Alabama, uh for my mother's Uh. 0:48:33.160 --> 0:48:35.920 They took Michael. He went into this, Michael went to this. 0:48:38.160 --> 0:48:42.040 Ye shut down South tell him what don Yeah, yeah, Mike, 0:48:42.120 --> 0:48:46.080 because Mike Mike like Antique. So the security was with him. 0:48:46.120 --> 0:48:47.919 So Bill said, I'm gonna go to the restaurant right quick. 0:48:48.840 --> 0:48:52.359 And the owner of the store, I don't know if 0:48:52.360 --> 0:48:54.319 he called the police whatever he thought Michael was trying 0:48:54.320 --> 0:48:55.960 to steal stuff out of the store. He didn't know 0:48:56.000 --> 0:48:58.680 who he was, and I think he and he got 0:48:58.719 --> 0:49:03.360 a gun and then bills and they took Michael somewhere 0:49:04.560 --> 0:49:07.719 looking for Michael and looking for Michael Jackie, I didn't 0:49:07.719 --> 0:49:08.920 forgot some of this stuff. 0:49:09.880 --> 0:49:12.239 He took Michael to the back room somewhere and tied 0:49:12.280 --> 0:49:14.360 him down. Michael was in the back room somewhere, like 0:49:16.320 --> 0:49:17.160 in the back ship. 0:49:17.680 --> 0:49:22.560 This is like, this is like in the seventies, late seventies. Yeah. 0:49:23.320 --> 0:49:26.520 Yeah, we're looking all over Michael and they had him 0:49:26.600 --> 0:49:29.600 tied down in the back ship. It's almost like the 0:49:29.680 --> 0:49:31.960 clamor was gonna take him away somewhere, you know, they were. 0:49:31.920 --> 0:49:32.560 Saving for that. 0:49:35.360 --> 0:49:40.000 Yeah, the story started with Alabama. 0:49:40.680 --> 0:49:48.120 Yeah, so we're looking for Michael all over the place 0:49:48.160 --> 0:49:50.399 and this guy had him tied down the back room. 0:49:51.200 --> 0:49:53.600 And this was like an antique stuff full of books 0:49:53.600 --> 0:49:56.120 and all kind of anti because Michael liked the old stuff. 0:49:56.160 --> 0:49:59.719 He like buying stuff like that. And they took him. 0:50:00.040 --> 0:50:01.759 They thought he was trying to steal something, and he 0:50:01.880 --> 0:50:04.279 took him in the back room and we went in 0:50:04.360 --> 0:50:04.680 the store. 0:50:04.719 --> 0:50:05.440 We could find him. 0:50:05.480 --> 0:50:07.760 He was in some other kind of ship behind behind 0:50:07.840 --> 0:50:09.239 that store. He was in another kind of. 0:50:11.360 --> 0:50:11.680 Jackson. 0:50:12.000 --> 0:50:14.400 Yeah, hard to get him released. 0:50:14.960 --> 0:50:16.640 Yeah, we got to release and they realized school he was. 0:50:16.680 --> 0:50:17.680 But we think we didn't. 0:50:18.080 --> 0:50:18.560 We let it go. 0:50:18.640 --> 0:50:19.600 We didn't put it in the press. 0:50:19.680 --> 0:50:20.719 We let it you know what I'm saying. 0:50:21.160 --> 0:50:25.880 Yeah, if it wasn't him until now a regular, if 0:50:25.960 --> 0:50:28.719 it was any other Jackson, right, it was Michael Johnson. 0:50:29.160 --> 0:50:33.800 Right, speaking speaking of Bill Bray. So I came across 0:50:33.880 --> 0:50:38.680 this this this like raw footage of a concert. I mean, 0:50:38.760 --> 0:50:42.560 I guess it was the Destiny era, But I was 0:50:42.640 --> 0:50:47.279 just looking at this footage and I'm noticing that the 0:50:47.360 --> 0:50:50.480 way that security is handled is not like it is now. 0:50:50.880 --> 0:50:55.399 Like there was no separation gait or something. The hole 0:50:55.480 --> 0:50:59.600 fans back like basically fans were one inch away from, 0:51:00.440 --> 0:51:03.040 you know, climbing on stage. And there's a point where 0:51:04.200 --> 0:51:06.120 I guess Bill Bray is giving you guys like a 0:51:06.200 --> 0:51:09.040 pep talk backstage on you know what my signals are? 0:51:10.440 --> 0:51:14.640 How often did you guys have to prematurely cut a 0:51:14.800 --> 0:51:22.239 show man all the time? So getting through a show 0:51:22.440 --> 0:51:23.960 was actually a hard thing to do. 0:51:25.040 --> 0:51:27.480 It was was it a song that popped them off? 0:51:27.640 --> 0:51:29.160 Or was it just like the moment you stepped on. 0:51:29.200 --> 0:51:33.799 Stage, the moment they said, the moment they set eyes 0:51:33.920 --> 0:51:34.160 on me. 0:51:46.200 --> 0:51:50.640 In the morning, it was a pandem morning. And believe it, 0:51:50.840 --> 0:51:52.839 believe it or not, there was a few times where 0:51:52.840 --> 0:51:56.759 we had bump threats, you know, and at one time 0:51:56.880 --> 0:51:58.919 they did find a bomb under the stage. They brought 0:51:58.960 --> 0:52:02.040 in the police dogs and all that stuff. So it 0:52:02.600 --> 0:52:08.160 you know, it's been different. So it's been different. We've 0:52:08.200 --> 0:52:09.520 been through a bunch of We used to go to 0:52:09.640 --> 0:52:12.879 shows in armor trucks because even on the Vision Tour 0:52:12.920 --> 0:52:15.319 we had dead threats. We sure did. 0:52:15.960 --> 0:52:18.680 Really Wow, Yeah, you're all brave for a bunch of 0:52:19.280 --> 0:52:20.239 fucking musicians. 0:52:20.840 --> 0:52:27.800 Yeah, what was the decision to not I mean, you know, 0:52:27.920 --> 0:52:31.120 we live in a time now where, you know, especially 0:52:31.160 --> 0:52:34.880 in social media, just everything's transparent and there's you know, 0:52:35.520 --> 0:52:39.360 nothing that's not revealed. What was the decision and not 0:52:40.880 --> 0:52:43.799 ever releasing these stories that things have happened for fear 0:52:43.880 --> 0:52:46.319 that copycats might try to follow, or. 0:52:47.239 --> 0:52:49.680 It's just never dawned on us. We you know, it 0:52:49.840 --> 0:52:53.600 was part of our life and I don't know, as 0:52:53.680 --> 0:52:57.640 we talked it just you know, we never tried to 0:52:58.040 --> 0:53:01.320 We weren't crazy about putting stuff in the press and 0:53:02.360 --> 0:53:05.600 and and those things. You know, we just move on 0:53:05.719 --> 0:53:08.200 with our life and keep going. I remember one time, 0:53:08.280 --> 0:53:13.360 long time ago, uh in Chatsworth again, Chessworth, California. My 0:53:13.520 --> 0:53:17.120 kids were at a park and my son drew it 0:53:17.160 --> 0:53:19.320 in the grass and a whole bunch of people stood 0:53:19.400 --> 0:53:26.000 up and they were the KKK and UH and some 0:53:26.160 --> 0:53:29.840 other friends came and and my wife and Jackie's wife 0:53:30.600 --> 0:53:32.960 and all jumped in the car car and took off. 0:53:33.360 --> 0:53:37.320 They came with bats and chains and UH. And somebody 0:53:37.440 --> 0:53:40.719 called the police and said there was a bunch of 0:53:41.000 --> 0:53:46.279 black ladies with afro wigs, I mean huge afros and 0:53:46.560 --> 0:53:49.080 and driving in the Mercedes down the streets flying and 0:53:49.480 --> 0:53:51.399 none of them had none of them had an. 0:53:51.320 --> 0:53:53.399 Afro, but they just saw the color of your skin 0:53:53.480 --> 0:53:55.040 and they just said afro and. 0:53:56.760 --> 0:53:58.800 And it was crazy. 0:53:59.200 --> 0:53:59.880 It was there. 0:54:00.160 --> 0:54:03.000 They were coming after him to kill him. They were 0:54:03.080 --> 0:54:05.160 having the picnic, and they jumped in the car, got 0:54:05.160 --> 0:54:07.880 all this stuff and just took off. And these guys 0:54:09.360 --> 0:54:11.560 with chains and bats coming after females. 0:54:13.080 --> 0:54:16.200 Were you guys able to share these situations and lean 0:54:16.320 --> 0:54:18.439 on some of your peers, because I'm sure y'all weren't 0:54:18.440 --> 0:54:20.000 the only ones going through stuff. 0:54:20.040 --> 0:54:21.480 Just at the time, Like who do y'all talk to 0:54:21.640 --> 0:54:24.160 about how to navigate all this stuff at that time 0:54:24.200 --> 0:54:24.759 in y'all lives. 0:54:24.920 --> 0:54:27.080 Not to mention you got parents from the South, but still. 0:54:27.600 --> 0:54:29.640 Sometimes we take care of it ourselves. 0:54:36.960 --> 0:54:50.080 Question love, it was the way the bullet. That's what 0:54:50.160 --> 0:54:55.040 sets it, you know, ask answer this question? 0:54:55.120 --> 0:54:57.440 When he came before, who is the first jackson to 0:54:57.480 --> 0:55:01.759 pop off? You said, Jermaine is the first jackson uh. 0:55:01.800 --> 0:55:03.040 To want to. 0:55:05.880 --> 0:55:11.799 I would run home the mama start he started to fight. 0:55:12.560 --> 0:55:15.840 He started to fight, me fighting and run home and 0:55:16.239 --> 0:55:17.400 tell mama, I'm fighting. 0:55:22.239 --> 0:55:25.640 Wait, Marlon, I have a question. So one of one 0:55:25.680 --> 0:55:29.880 of my favorite J five albums was Get It Together, 0:55:31.080 --> 0:55:34.600 and in particular, I mean I realize that now when 0:55:34.760 --> 0:55:38.759 when I was older that that was accidently no, no, no, 0:55:39.000 --> 0:55:42.560 uh mama h the cover of Uh Mama got Brandon 0:55:42.600 --> 0:55:46.080 New Thing. Don't say no, I'm realizing that you singing 0:55:46.160 --> 0:55:50.000 on it. How are you guys? Uh? What would you 0:55:50.040 --> 0:55:53.239 what would you say, Fante, I'm having lost awards? You 0:55:53.560 --> 0:55:57.239 call it the would you say the operation of uh 0:55:57.440 --> 0:56:00.520 the division division of labor, Division of labor? Yeah, what 0:56:00.760 --> 0:56:03.160 what is the division of labor as far as who 0:56:03.239 --> 0:56:06.480 gets what part or no, Well, that song. 0:56:06.480 --> 0:56:10.160 Was was produced by how Davis, So he would tell 0:56:10.239 --> 0:56:13.000 us who's going to sing this, who's going to sing that, 0:56:13.760 --> 0:56:16.759 who's going to sing this? Even in the corporation, you're 0:56:16.760 --> 0:56:19.200 gonna sing this part. You're gonna sing this part, and 0:56:19.400 --> 0:56:22.960 and that's how, and that's what we did when it 0:56:23.440 --> 0:56:25.480 you know, and and that's what and that's what we did. 0:56:26.239 --> 0:56:29.680 And did you sing on any other Jackson songs that 0:56:29.800 --> 0:56:30.360 didn't make it? 0:56:30.520 --> 0:56:33.520 Or like I think body Language is another one that 0:56:33.600 --> 0:56:34.520 I sung on too. 0:56:38.719 --> 0:56:39.920 She said that didn't make it? 0:56:40.440 --> 0:56:46.359 He said, quest has been so long ago. 0:56:46.920 --> 0:56:48.000 I got c r S. 0:56:52.560 --> 0:56:59.480 Remember r S disease? 0:57:00.080 --> 0:57:02.920 I should do you know after after after you get 0:57:03.000 --> 0:57:05.160 past fifty you know stuff, come and go? 0:57:05.719 --> 0:57:06.120 Can I ask? 0:57:06.560 --> 0:57:08.560 Can I ask you a dancing question that that you 0:57:08.600 --> 0:57:09.120 may remember? 0:57:09.840 --> 0:57:12.160 I mean that Wait, wait, that don't mean them answer. 0:57:14.480 --> 0:57:20.760 Somebody moment right now, right for real, for real, Mark 0:57:20.840 --> 0:57:23.920 Marlin for the moment right now? You the mean man? 0:57:24.240 --> 0:57:26.240 Yeah that too, But I was going to ask you, 0:57:26.400 --> 0:57:28.560 like your dancing story, like you talked about you and 0:57:28.600 --> 0:57:30.720 Michael being fans of Jackie Wilson and being a fan 0:57:30.800 --> 0:57:34.000 of a dance. But I'm just curious, like as you evolved, 0:57:34.040 --> 0:57:35.959 as dance evolved, like who are some of the folks 0:57:36.000 --> 0:57:37.000 that you started looking to. 0:57:37.240 --> 0:57:41.040 Like we we believe or not. We used to watch 0:57:41.240 --> 0:57:44.560 James Brown, like you, said Jackie Wilson. We used to 0:57:44.600 --> 0:57:46.440 watch Fredi stare g and Kelly. 0:57:48.400 --> 0:57:48.720 Rogers. 0:57:49.800 --> 0:57:52.520 No no, no, no, we won't tip. We were walking 0:57:52.560 --> 0:57:59.120 on our toes. Now, Michael knock on Feta storage store. 0:57:59.600 --> 0:58:03.600 Let me tell jack jack I got so so one day, 0:58:04.400 --> 0:58:06.600 you know, Michael said, Marma, come come pick me up. 0:58:06.600 --> 0:58:08.880 I don't feel like driving to the studio. I said, okay, 0:58:08.920 --> 0:58:11.080 I'm gonna come get you. And we drove Michael's car 0:58:11.240 --> 0:58:14.040 his roll here. Out in the car, Michael said, well, Marma, 0:58:14.040 --> 0:58:16.680 I want you to go this way. I said which way? 0:58:16.840 --> 0:58:18.880 I said, why are we going this way? He said, 0:58:18.960 --> 0:58:21.800 just go this way? And then we go into Beverly Hills. 0:58:21.920 --> 0:58:24.160 He said, tear down this street. I said, said, well, 0:58:24.200 --> 0:58:27.439 you're not going to the studio, Mike. He said, dadd 0:58:27.520 --> 0:58:29.640 is to drive down there, Micha, I'm not driving down 0:58:29.680 --> 0:58:33.360 somebody's driveway. Marma, just drive down the driveway. He get 0:58:33.400 --> 0:58:35.440 out the car and knock on the door. It was 0:58:35.480 --> 0:58:41.800 freddie stairs house. You know, get out the car, knock 0:58:41.920 --> 0:58:43.520 on the door. Fredis Stair wasn't home. 0:58:43.560 --> 0:58:44.400 I don't know where he was. 0:58:44.680 --> 0:58:48.080 And I said, that's that's where Freddie Staire lives. That's 0:58:48.120 --> 0:58:51.120 his house. And somebody answered the door and told him 0:58:51.120 --> 0:58:53.800 that Freddie's Stair wasn't home at the time. And then 0:58:53.840 --> 0:58:58.840 we went on to the studio. But write. 0:59:00.120 --> 0:59:01.600 Was just walking time. 0:59:01.800 --> 0:59:05.160 What time we were in? Uh, sometimes figure out why 0:59:05.200 --> 0:59:08.200 we were there though we were so we Richie Pride 0:59:08.240 --> 0:59:10.600 lived in north in the north Ridge, so we Michael 0:59:10.600 --> 0:59:13.120 and I. I don't think I ever told you all this, Jackie. 0:59:13.120 --> 0:59:15.040 So Michael and I we stopped. We went to Richard 0:59:15.040 --> 0:59:17.120 Pride's house. Right, we knocked on the door. He come in. 0:59:17.280 --> 0:59:19.920 He's talking to us, and what was so funny to me? 0:59:20.440 --> 0:59:24.600 That we're leaving? And Richie goes to us. He said, yeah, 0:59:24.640 --> 0:59:26.720 that that's the Mercedes I shot the tires out of 0:59:26.840 --> 0:59:35.240 which he tried to wait where she tried to leave, right, mother, 0:59:38.360 --> 0:59:38.920 Remember that. 0:59:41.360 --> 0:59:43.720 I was also asking, like after fredstare like as the 0:59:43.800 --> 0:59:46.320 time went on the seventies and eighties, where the other 0:59:46.360 --> 0:59:49.120 folks too, did you were like? Because I know Michael 0:59:49.160 --> 0:59:51.480 implemented new styles and dance and form into his thing. 0:59:51.560 --> 0:59:54.280 But Marlon, I mean, I know you do your thing. 0:59:54.280 --> 0:59:57.400 I seen you. You still do your thing. You appreciate 0:59:57.440 --> 0:59:58.680 it trying to do something. 0:59:59.240 --> 1:00:01.760 Can I add to that question? What did you guys 1:00:01.840 --> 1:00:03.439 work with Charlie Atkins at all? 1:00:04.040 --> 1:00:04.080 No? 1:00:04.520 --> 1:00:05.440 No, never did never. 1:00:06.680 --> 1:00:08.760 Who's the choreographer for the Jackson five? 1:00:09.680 --> 1:00:10.480 Jackie and five? 1:00:11.360 --> 1:00:14.920 In the very beginning we got assistance from Suzanne to 1:00:15.200 --> 1:00:19.800 ask uh. She had a choreographed some of the I 1:00:19.920 --> 1:00:23.480 want you back stuff, the Sullivan stuff. But after that 1:00:23.720 --> 1:00:26.720 is basically even before that, it was always been the 1:00:26.800 --> 1:00:27.960 groups on their own thing. 1:00:28.480 --> 1:00:31.920 Yeah, Jackie, Michael and I we fool around. Jackie Michael 1:00:31.960 --> 1:00:34.800 and I. We until we realize we running out of time, 1:00:34.840 --> 1:00:36.840 didn't we say we better get serious with this. That's 1:00:36.840 --> 1:00:39.640 what That's what we did. On Motime twenty five. We 1:00:39.760 --> 1:00:42.960 spend almost two or three hours in the room talking, look, hey, 1:00:43.000 --> 1:00:45.440 the shoot tomorrow. We don't have any choreography before Wait 1:00:45.480 --> 1:00:47.480 what wow. 1:00:48.040 --> 1:00:50.240 Y'all did that the night before y'all did that? Yeah? 1:00:50.440 --> 1:00:52.919 Yeah, yeah, yes, what yeah? 1:00:55.200 --> 1:00:58.280 So my question what was your thoughts? This movie means 1:00:58.560 --> 1:01:00.360 the world to us, but to y'all. I want to 1:01:00.400 --> 1:01:04.080 know the v H one American Jackson's American. 1:01:05.400 --> 1:01:07.000 Yeah, the music. 1:01:07.080 --> 1:01:09.360 You got to ask Jackie Tito that I've never seen it. 1:01:10.240 --> 1:01:13.560 You are lie, seriously, No, I've never seen it. 1:01:13.640 --> 1:01:15.440 I've never seen it. Model me too. 1:01:17.360 --> 1:01:20.960 All right, Wait, seriously, a part of it. 1:01:21.800 --> 1:01:24.000 I've never seen it. But can I tell you something. 1:01:24.320 --> 1:01:27.520 My father wasn't like that. They made him like he 1:01:27.720 --> 1:01:30.880 was so I mean, he wasn't like that. They they 1:01:30.960 --> 1:01:33.960 made like a real bad guy and he was not 1:01:34.320 --> 1:01:34.520 like that. 1:01:36.240 --> 1:01:36.560 Strength. 1:01:37.000 --> 1:01:38.240 Yeah, it's for the movie. 1:01:38.480 --> 1:01:41.400 I mean, my father disciplined us because he had six boys, 1:01:41.480 --> 1:01:42.960 you know, and around games like that. 1:01:43.160 --> 1:01:45.560 He wasn't like that. But matter of fact, that's how 1:01:45.600 --> 1:01:46.520 we learned how to dance. 1:01:52.880 --> 1:01:54.000 I was going to ask all that too. 1:01:54.200 --> 1:01:56.280 Just so particularly about your dad because you know he's 1:01:56.360 --> 1:01:58.760 passed and I was watching the other day they showed 1:01:58.840 --> 1:02:01.520 the they have a new Tiger Woods documentary this on 1:02:01.920 --> 1:02:04.480 uh this out now, And yes, you know there's the 1:02:04.920 --> 1:02:06.520 kind of the telling you know, you think of just 1:02:06.680 --> 1:02:09.040 the strict father that's just kind of driving the kids, 1:02:09.400 --> 1:02:11.640 and your dad has always kind of been just the 1:02:12.080 --> 1:02:15.240 symbol of just the hard you know, disciplinarian father, And 1:02:15.400 --> 1:02:17.240 so I was just curious to know from your guy's 1:02:17.280 --> 1:02:19.920 own words, you know what was that relationship like? 1:02:20.000 --> 1:02:22.720 I mean, you know, he's been kind of demonized in 1:02:22.760 --> 1:02:23.360 a lot of ways. 1:02:23.440 --> 1:02:26.080 But since his passing in just over the years of 1:02:26.200 --> 1:02:28.200 y'all have has have y'all as y'all have grown as 1:02:28.280 --> 1:02:29.600 men and become fathers yourselves. 1:02:31.080 --> 1:02:33.080 How is that? How how do y'all look at y'all 1:02:33.080 --> 1:02:34.080 relationship with your dad. 1:02:34.000 --> 1:02:36.640 Now when you realize, you know, you go back and 1:02:36.760 --> 1:02:39.680 realize what he was doing was right. 1:02:39.880 --> 1:02:41.800 I mean, we came from a. 1:02:41.840 --> 1:02:45.560 Bad neighborhood Guarantiana, and he, I mean he kept us 1:02:45.640 --> 1:02:50.520 out of that situation by keeping us busy, keeping us rehearsing. 1:02:51.120 --> 1:02:53.640 He saw we had talent, and he said, if you 1:02:53.720 --> 1:02:55.400 want to be something, you've got to work at And 1:02:55.480 --> 1:02:58.040 that's what he did. And back in those days, you know, 1:02:58.480 --> 1:03:00.880 you know how parents raised kids, it was different. You know, 1:03:01.080 --> 1:03:03.680 even your neighbors, your parents, I mean, your neighbors would 1:03:03.720 --> 1:03:05.200 get you. You know, that's how it was back in 1:03:05.280 --> 1:03:08.240 those days. You can't do that stuff today. It's a 1:03:08.240 --> 1:03:10.760 whole different today, it's different, but not just the way 1:03:10.800 --> 1:03:11.600 it was back then. 1:03:11.720 --> 1:03:16.160 You know today today those jokers break their knuckles down 1:03:16.200 --> 1:03:17.600 in nine one one, yeah. 1:03:20.320 --> 1:03:22.960 Something as parents and grandparents now seeing the way the 1:03:23.080 --> 1:03:24.240 kids are like disciplined. 1:03:24.360 --> 1:03:31.200 Yes, I called it. Yeah, it was. 1:03:31.320 --> 1:03:33.280 It was a different time when I look at you know, 1:03:33.520 --> 1:03:35.280 just when I think about, you know, your your dad, 1:03:35.360 --> 1:03:37.360 your dad's legacy and just what he was able to 1:03:37.640 --> 1:03:40.560 help y'all build. You know, it's just you know, whenever 1:03:40.760 --> 1:03:43.800 I see people being real harsh about you know, men 1:03:43.920 --> 1:03:47.080 of that time, I'm just like, listen, dude, Like white 1:03:47.080 --> 1:03:48.480 folks just ran up in the capitol. 1:03:49.080 --> 1:03:52.120 What was they doing in nineteen fifty nine? You know what? 1:03:52.160 --> 1:03:54.400 I like, what would you know what I'm saying? What 1:03:54.520 --> 1:03:55.800 think about what those guys. 1:03:55.680 --> 1:03:57.800 Were up against back then, trying to raise you know, 1:03:58.160 --> 1:04:01.800 you know all these kids of trouble, nine children and 1:04:02.080 --> 1:04:05.040 working in a steel mill, Like, come the funk on, dude, 1:04:05.160 --> 1:04:07.080 Like you got to put that in context, you know. 1:04:07.400 --> 1:04:09.120 So I was always to hear your thoughts on it. 1:04:09.240 --> 1:04:11.040 And I went to the steel mail one time and 1:04:11.560 --> 1:04:14.240 some where my father worked. Man, they looked up that 1:04:14.320 --> 1:04:15.880 steel door and all that. 1:04:16.000 --> 1:04:18.080 Heat and fire key out, and I said, oh my god, 1:04:18.120 --> 1:04:20.600 how does he work in a place like this all 1:04:20.640 --> 1:04:21.000 the time. 1:04:21.440 --> 1:04:22.520 I mean, I couldn't believe it. 1:04:23.160 --> 1:04:26.440 Yeah, Jackie took us home and wanted to rehearse even more. 1:04:29.320 --> 1:04:37.360 Better than being in Jackie, were you at one point 1:04:37.440 --> 1:04:41.240 seriously trying to consider uh a career in baseball at all? 1:04:41.480 --> 1:04:44.240 Wait? Wait wait, wait wait wait wait, Jackie, back that up. 1:04:44.400 --> 1:04:47.480 Not consider the white sox was looking at him. 1:04:47.720 --> 1:04:52.640 Oh wow, I didn't know that. 1:04:52.760 --> 1:04:53.680 Talk about it, Jackie. 1:04:53.720 --> 1:04:58.120 Come on, no, matter of fact, we all played baseball. 1:04:58.120 --> 1:05:01.760 We all baseball player, all of us. And I was 1:05:01.800 --> 1:05:04.920 a short stop and a picture and and they was 1:05:05.000 --> 1:05:07.240 after me and and stuff like that. But you know, 1:05:07.640 --> 1:05:10.080 I think I thought I made the right move by 1:05:10.120 --> 1:05:12.880 sticker with my brothers because the singing career last forever. 1:05:13.040 --> 1:05:16.240 You can sing forever, you know, and you can sing 1:05:16.320 --> 1:05:17.120 with bad knees. 1:05:21.880 --> 1:05:24.320 Yeah, but uh, you know, I did the right thing. 1:05:24.400 --> 1:05:26.120 We did the right thing to stay with the group 1:05:26.160 --> 1:05:26.680 and stay with the. 1:05:26.680 --> 1:05:31.280 Boys, because I would see you know often in like 1:05:31.400 --> 1:05:35.520 ride on magazine or whatever the periodicals were at the 1:05:35.600 --> 1:05:39.280 time of like you guys actually had your own softball team, 1:05:39.360 --> 1:05:42.960 Like how how was that arranged? Like like celebrities softball 1:05:43.040 --> 1:05:45.000 games versus each other would just be a thing of 1:05:45.200 --> 1:05:48.040 you calling them up or was it like some official. 1:05:50.320 --> 1:05:53.120 We had some of the coldest baseball teams we had. 1:05:54.120 --> 1:05:55.880 We had Willie god on our team. 1:05:56.560 --> 1:05:58.400 We had a cheetah. 1:06:00.440 --> 1:06:03.960 On the US and football we had the colders. And 1:06:04.040 --> 1:06:07.600 all those guys play baseball too, you know, don't they 1:06:07.720 --> 1:06:10.960 played college baseball. We win the championship every year. 1:06:11.400 --> 1:06:15.360 So Billy Christal, Billy Christ, Billy CHRISTI, they gonna get 1:06:15.400 --> 1:06:16.240 their team, him. 1:06:16.120 --> 1:06:21.760 And Rob right there and all of them. The story, 1:06:24.240 --> 1:06:26.760 they they gonna come and play us. 1:06:29.080 --> 1:06:33.400 You know Sam Watson, You know Sam. Any one knows 1:06:33.440 --> 1:06:35.440 Sam Watson. He's always in the ring all the time 1:06:35.480 --> 1:06:36.080 of the Fighters. 1:06:36.160 --> 1:06:37.560 And uh. 1:06:40.080 --> 1:06:41.440 Said the words that you're not supposed to say, but 1:06:41.520 --> 1:06:42.440 only he's supposed to say it. 1:06:42.920 --> 1:06:46.439 He said, Sam, Yeah with the Fighters. You know. Yeah, 1:06:46.960 --> 1:06:49.439 Sam was on our baseball baseball Sam is the great 1:06:49.480 --> 1:06:50.120 baseball player. 1:06:50.400 --> 1:06:50.880 He can play. 1:06:51.440 --> 1:06:55.160 Oh yeah, you know. 1:06:55.360 --> 1:06:58.680 Because I would notice all your appearances on Soul Train, 1:06:58.840 --> 1:07:03.040 Marlon me talk the most junk about you guys are 1:07:03.080 --> 1:07:09.520 sports prowess and in basketball and softball. I didn't know 1:07:09.560 --> 1:07:11.800 if that was like an actual thing, Like there was a. 1:07:12.360 --> 1:07:16.080 No, it's serious, and then there's a there's a picture somewhere. 1:07:16.200 --> 1:07:20.320 I saw Jackie playing basketball. Jackie used to play Marvin 1:07:20.400 --> 1:07:23.480 gay all the time at Marvin Gaye's house. 1:07:23.560 --> 1:07:25.680 Didn't you Jackie, You'll go one on one? He would 1:07:25.720 --> 1:07:28.480 call me over. We played one on one. He said, 1:07:28.560 --> 1:07:30.760 jack ain't paying no damn taxes. 1:07:34.920 --> 1:07:37.320 And he wrote a song about it, I can't pay 1:07:37.400 --> 1:07:39.480 my taxes. Maybe want to holler. 1:07:39.800 --> 1:07:42.360 Right right PASTA play all the time, one on one 1:07:42.360 --> 1:07:43.919 all the time at his house, he called. 1:07:46.760 --> 1:07:47.880 But he would push you around. 1:07:47.920 --> 1:07:51.000 Marvin played really rough though dirty. 1:07:51.120 --> 1:07:55.400 Okay, Yeah, when you're in when when you get to 1:07:55.600 --> 1:07:59.160 l a like who and older? Who were your uh 1:08:00.080 --> 1:08:02.680 peers or like who would you hang with? Was it 1:08:02.840 --> 1:08:05.600 just in house or did you guys have like a 1:08:05.680 --> 1:08:09.280 relationship with the Silvers or anybody that was your age 1:08:09.360 --> 1:08:09.720 or anything. 1:08:10.280 --> 1:08:12.600 We just hung together. We stayed in the recordings to 1:08:12.680 --> 1:08:19.000 be all. That's all cor Cord record, even on Sundays. 1:08:20.160 --> 1:08:23.680 They recorded all the time and time, and and then 1:08:23.720 --> 1:08:26.960 when we would go out and do concerts, we had 1:08:27.000 --> 1:08:29.320 a curfew, so we had to be in bed at 1:08:29.360 --> 1:08:34.160 a certain time and moms would come and tell our security, 1:08:34.360 --> 1:08:35.960 I know my daughter's up in there with Winnam Jackson, 1:08:36.040 --> 1:08:37.559 Like you said, I can guarantee you they an't wait, 1:08:37.600 --> 1:08:40.360 wasn't name Jackson's. They might be with one of them 1:08:40.400 --> 1:08:41.960 band members, but they ain't with with nothing of them 1:08:42.040 --> 1:08:44.759 Jackson's because I just did bed check and they all. 1:08:46.960 --> 1:08:49.599 Our very first, our very first big concert. 1:08:50.240 --> 1:08:50.519 Mm hm. 1:08:51.760 --> 1:08:55.200 You know where it was, Marmon, the very first big concert. 1:08:55.520 --> 1:08:58.479 You know where it was at the Forum with no. 1:08:58.760 --> 1:09:01.160 I'm talking about that one, the very first big one. 1:09:01.200 --> 1:09:07.360 Guess where it was, Philadelphia, Philadelphia Spectrum, Philadelphia. He said, 1:09:07.479 --> 1:09:11.360 that's where it was, remember man, the first start off. 1:09:11.400 --> 1:09:12.520 That's where Philadelphia. 1:09:13.000 --> 1:09:16.240 That's where it was there. Okay, So there's there's a 1:09:16.360 --> 1:09:21.479 folklore tale. One of the most famous graffiti writers in 1:09:21.560 --> 1:09:25.560 Philadelphia's name is Cornbread. The legend of Cornbread is like 1:09:25.680 --> 1:09:29.800 the places that he would tag his his name, and 1:09:30.280 --> 1:09:32.920 the reason why that Philadelphia show, the reason why I 1:09:33.160 --> 1:09:35.360 know about it, even though I wasn't old enough to 1:09:35.520 --> 1:09:40.560 know about it, is that somehow Cornbread had managed to 1:09:40.880 --> 1:09:46.759 tag the Jackson five airplane with his name, which basically 1:09:46.880 --> 1:09:50.920 set his legend into like the graffiti world, like he 1:09:51.040 --> 1:09:57.080 tagged the Jackson five airplane from their Philadelphia Spectrum show. Yeah, yeah, no, 1:09:57.280 --> 1:09:59.720 I mean he's still living off that folklore right now. 1:09:59.760 --> 1:10:03.800 He's like sixty three years old. He finally signed a 1:10:03.840 --> 1:10:05.920 jacket for me after decades of big and for it. 1:10:07.160 --> 1:10:10.280 I want to ask about the move to Epic. You know, 1:10:10.400 --> 1:10:14.920 between there's sort of that period in which past the 1:10:15.240 --> 1:10:18.680 beginning stage of Motown where you guys are putting the 1:10:18.760 --> 1:10:24.479 Vegas Act together about to do the Variety Show, and 1:10:25.120 --> 1:10:30.600 of course you moved to Philly International Epic. What was 1:10:30.720 --> 1:10:34.240 basically I mean, were you guys trying to develop your 1:10:34.600 --> 1:10:39.839 music even before then, Like, were you guys writing actively 1:10:39.920 --> 1:10:44.559 writing and producing by that point or yeah, we when. 1:10:44.479 --> 1:10:47.360 We learned so much, you know by then with all 1:10:47.400 --> 1:10:51.200 the Motown writers and the producers. It's like going to 1:10:51.240 --> 1:10:53.360 school there anyway, because you learned so much they teach 1:10:53.400 --> 1:10:57.080 you at the same time. And all the wonderful hits 1:10:57.120 --> 1:10:59.280 that we had with Motown, what do you put us 1:10:59.320 --> 1:11:01.479 on the map? Barry Gordy and the whole crew and 1:11:01.600 --> 1:11:05.559 us crew of writers just amazing with the done for us. 1:11:05.600 --> 1:11:08.760 And at that time our contract was running out, we 1:11:08.840 --> 1:11:10.960 felt that it was time for us to start writing 1:11:11.479 --> 1:11:14.640 some some of our music because at that time we 1:11:14.680 --> 1:11:17.479 felt the Meat was kind of young and ABC and 1:11:17.520 --> 1:11:19.599 a little bit and kind of kind of bubble gummers, 1:11:19.640 --> 1:11:21.439 but it was the top of music that was geared 1:11:21.520 --> 1:11:22.639 to everybody to love. 1:11:23.360 --> 1:11:27.360 But we decided it's time let's just start writing some music, 1:11:27.520 --> 1:11:27.680 you know. 1:11:27.800 --> 1:11:31.400 So we decided to no longer side with Mongtown, to 1:11:31.520 --> 1:11:35.400 go to another label where we can show them our 1:11:35.400 --> 1:11:39.240 ability to write songs and also produced records. So they 1:11:39.320 --> 1:11:41.840 put us with a camel In Huff, you know, and uh, 1:11:42.320 --> 1:11:44.200 we were so excited to be with those guys because 1:11:44.240 --> 1:11:47.240 those guys were known for writing hits on groups like 1:11:47.560 --> 1:11:51.000 Taty Pendergrass and the o Jays. You just the list 1:11:51.080 --> 1:11:53.599 goes on and on Cowboys the Girls. 1:11:54.040 --> 1:11:56.599 That's my favorite game, Cowboys the Girl. 1:11:56.920 --> 1:12:02.600 But what's that group in Trudi. We figured that we 1:12:02.800 --> 1:12:05.479 if we get with the Jackson Gip Gambling Huff, it's 1:12:05.600 --> 1:12:08.240 over with, it's gonna be a big time you know 1:12:08.240 --> 1:12:08.719 what I'm saying. 1:12:09.000 --> 1:12:11.400 So what are your thoughts on those albums? Now? Like now? 1:12:11.560 --> 1:12:12.240 Over time? 1:12:13.040 --> 1:12:16.800 Incredible? Incredible man, Gambling Huff. 1:12:17.120 --> 1:12:17.720 We got there. 1:12:17.880 --> 1:12:20.600 We spent time just talking and talking. 1:12:20.400 --> 1:12:22.559 And we did a whole album in two weeks. 1:12:23.040 --> 1:12:27.400 In two weeks, man, Well, I would say my favorite 1:12:27.479 --> 1:12:30.000 material is still I mean the Gambler suff I mean, 1:12:30.040 --> 1:12:31.479 it's enjoy yourself and show you. 1:12:31.680 --> 1:12:32.559 I mean those are plazas. 1:12:32.800 --> 1:12:35.599 But for me personally, man, I just love when y'all 1:12:35.600 --> 1:12:37.800 wrote your own stuff like that was that's that's that 1:12:37.880 --> 1:12:38.519 ship with jamming. 1:12:39.280 --> 1:12:41.880 I just like y'all y'all doing your own material. Man, 1:12:41.920 --> 1:12:43.240 that shit was just it was great. 1:12:43.800 --> 1:12:46.160 So we wrote, you know, first we wrote to We 1:12:46.280 --> 1:12:48.800 wrote two songs on the on the album, then we 1:12:50.080 --> 1:12:52.759 gamble wrote the rest and songs, and all of a sudden, 1:12:53.080 --> 1:12:56.640 they gave us a whole album start writing because I guess, I. 1:12:56.640 --> 1:13:03.880 Guess, yeah, yeah, I was gonna say. My elementary school 1:13:04.360 --> 1:13:09.080 was right next door to Philly International, So oftentimes, like 1:13:09.200 --> 1:13:13.040 first second grade, I'd see you guys running to your 1:13:13.080 --> 1:13:17.519 car on Broad Street. Really yeah, my I went to 1:13:17.600 --> 1:13:20.800 a performing arts school, which was if Philly International I 1:13:20.840 --> 1:13:24.000 think was three ten Broad Street. My school was three thirteen, 1:13:24.160 --> 1:13:29.759 So oftentimes you'd see like Teddy Pendergrad, you'd see everyone outside. 1:13:29.800 --> 1:13:31.839 But you know, of course I knew when the Jacksons 1:13:31.880 --> 1:13:34.920 were in proximity because every girl in that school just 1:13:35.000 --> 1:13:37.600 run outside and it's like, oh the Jackson's supposed to 1:13:37.600 --> 1:13:41.559 be next door or something. But I asked that question 1:13:41.720 --> 1:13:45.880 about the seventies because it just hit me. Can you 1:13:46.000 --> 1:13:50.719 tell me who the group MDLT was? Because I collected 1:13:50.720 --> 1:13:54.599 a lot of records, and probably one of the highest 1:13:54.640 --> 1:13:57.600 priced forty fives that someone tried to get me for 1:13:57.960 --> 1:14:01.960 was a Jackson five produced song called What's Your Game? 1:14:02.360 --> 1:14:03.160 By M d l T. 1:14:04.439 --> 1:14:05.240 What's Your Game? 1:14:06.320 --> 1:14:08.720 It was like they were m d l T was 1:14:08.840 --> 1:14:11.600 like a I think the legends that they were on 1:14:11.800 --> 1:14:17.400 Ivory Every Tower, Yeah, Ivory Tower, like four girls. 1:14:18.040 --> 1:14:19.360 Yeah, that was my father's group. 1:14:20.160 --> 1:14:22.240 Okay, so they just saw like the Dinah Ross thing. 1:14:22.280 --> 1:14:25.680 They just use the and of course the suckle like 1:14:25.760 --> 1:14:28.000 me comes along. It's like, yeah, I'll pay thousand for that. Okay, 1:14:28.160 --> 1:14:32.080 I get it now. So that was just on his label. 1:14:32.160 --> 1:14:36.559 But you guys didn't specifically produce that single or anything. Correct. 1:14:37.400 --> 1:14:39.400 I don't remember producing we're doing anything? 1:14:39.840 --> 1:14:40.120 You did? 1:14:41.800 --> 1:14:43.120 Yes, we did, you don't remember. 1:14:44.760 --> 1:14:48.120 He's right, we did that, Okay. I at least don't 1:14:48.120 --> 1:14:49.320 feel ripped off or pain for that. 1:14:53.040 --> 1:14:53.760 We did. Okay. 1:14:54.200 --> 1:14:58.640 So Jackie I mentioned I mentioned this and and your 1:14:59.680 --> 1:15:06.920 and your Brothers documentary for Off the wall that one 1:15:06.920 --> 1:15:11.960 of my favorite moments in discovering that that demo on 1:15:12.160 --> 1:15:15.200 Shake your Body Down to the ground. Was you yelling, 1:15:16.080 --> 1:15:22.400 I can't wait for the begs to hear this ship? Said, 1:15:23.400 --> 1:15:25.320 oh my god, yeah, it's my favorite thing ever. 1:15:25.960 --> 1:15:27.120 It's right right? 1:15:27.160 --> 1:15:30.719 Do you end the demo and it stops the bgs 1:15:30.760 --> 1:15:31.439 to hear this ship? 1:15:31.760 --> 1:15:34.840 My mom, Mommy was at your house. And then that's 1:15:34.880 --> 1:15:37.120 a song we were doing, like I half a song. 1:15:37.200 --> 1:15:41.040 We was messing around this this messing around with a 1:15:41.080 --> 1:15:42.679 groove and we was making up something. 1:15:42.720 --> 1:15:43.120 Remember that. 1:15:43.560 --> 1:15:46.040 And I said something like I can win the BG's here. 1:15:46.160 --> 1:15:48.960 He's right, I said that, And they caught that stuff, 1:15:49.240 --> 1:15:51.439 and I said, with viral, didn't it? A lot of 1:15:51.920 --> 1:15:53.599 people did with viral? 1:15:54.080 --> 1:15:57.360 Yeah, Like what what were your I don't remember that. 1:15:57.479 --> 1:15:59.760 I mean at that at that point, I know that 1:15:59.880 --> 1:16:01.640 you you had to, you know, something to prove. And 1:16:01.720 --> 1:16:03.320 this is like the moment that you guys are going 1:16:03.360 --> 1:16:05.320 to step to the plate and produce your own material. 1:16:05.439 --> 1:16:08.800 But were you guys seriously eyeing like, Okay, they sold 1:16:08.840 --> 1:16:12.280 twelve million units, that's us, Like that's what we want? 1:16:12.840 --> 1:16:13.360 Like what oh? 1:16:13.479 --> 1:16:13.679 Yeah? 1:16:13.880 --> 1:16:16.120 In your mind? Was were they the standards of who 1:16:16.200 --> 1:16:18.320 to be, like why not earth Went and Fire or 1:16:18.479 --> 1:16:20.720 p Funk or I. 1:16:20.680 --> 1:16:22.760 Don't know, maybe I don't know what. 1:16:22.960 --> 1:16:26.960 Maybe say that about the BG. It just came out, BGS. 1:16:27.000 --> 1:16:28.240 Here this ship, it just happened. 1:16:28.240 --> 1:16:29.320 I just named the BG. 1:16:29.520 --> 1:16:32.560 It could have been I could have been just you know, 1:16:32.640 --> 1:16:35.920 it just happened. It was we was in sane something 1:16:36.240 --> 1:16:38.880 like the little group, just making something as we go along, 1:16:38.920 --> 1:16:41.240 and I said, wait till this ship or something like that. 1:16:41.320 --> 1:16:42.320 I remember something like that. 1:16:42.560 --> 1:16:47.280 Yeah, okay, ironically we all get inducted into the Rock 1:16:47.320 --> 1:16:49.200 and Roll Hall of Fame in nineteen ninety seven. 1:16:50.400 --> 1:16:55.439 Together, oh together, all that came out b G. 1:16:57.600 --> 1:17:00.680 Also, I also asked your brother Randy this question. So 1:17:00.800 --> 1:17:04.799 in terms of presentation and theatrics, like, you guys definitely 1:17:06.080 --> 1:17:08.439 raise the game higher. I mean, by that point in 1:17:08.520 --> 1:17:12.080 seventy seven, you know, earth wind Fire is bringing theatrics 1:17:12.120 --> 1:17:16.160 to the game, and p Funk definitely was bringing theatrics 1:17:16.160 --> 1:17:16.639 to the game. 1:17:16.760 --> 1:17:18.559 But man, it was tough then. 1:17:19.280 --> 1:17:23.519 I always wanted to know, though, why was Randy the 1:17:23.680 --> 1:17:29.599 designated agitator? Like usually any explosions were because of Randy 1:17:29.720 --> 1:17:34.160 either throwing you guys in a pit or throwing some 1:17:34.280 --> 1:17:36.800 flash paper and exploit like why was he the one? 1:17:36.960 --> 1:17:41.240 Like you know, it's like you guys are brothers in 1:17:41.320 --> 1:17:43.640 the first twenty three minutes and then Randy does this 1:17:43.800 --> 1:17:50.080 terrorist act like Okay, then I'm gonna this fire and 1:17:50.160 --> 1:17:52.160 it's gonna explode and we'll have on new outfits. 1:17:52.280 --> 1:17:54.560 Like well, because you're right, I've never looked at it 1:17:54.680 --> 1:17:54.840 like that. 1:17:54.920 --> 1:17:57.760 But you're right, though, why was he the designated back 1:17:57.840 --> 1:17:59.240 guy that had. 1:17:59.120 --> 1:18:02.600 To do because he was because he wasn't in the 1:18:02.720 --> 1:18:03.720 Jackson fire. That's why. 1:18:10.000 --> 1:18:12.080 How did you guys conceptualize those shows? Though? 1:18:12.479 --> 1:18:13.599 I told you just to cry. 1:18:13.640 --> 1:18:15.439 When we used to go on the road and drive 1:18:15.560 --> 1:18:18.320 down and drive our driveway going out the gate heading 1:18:18.400 --> 1:18:21.120 for the airport, he would cry like a baby sitting 1:18:21.200 --> 1:18:23.120 the driver because he thought he was coming with us, 1:18:23.280 --> 1:18:24.200 you know, so he thought. 1:18:25.320 --> 1:18:27.880 He pushing the butt, he pushed the button for the 1:18:27.960 --> 1:18:29.360 gate for the car to leave. 1:18:31.200 --> 1:18:33.439 Did y'all y'all didn't initiate him when he came when 1:18:33.479 --> 1:18:37.160 he finally became a part, did you like, he was 1:18:37.200 --> 1:18:38.800 always there, but. 1:18:40.280 --> 1:18:43.719 He was around. He was hanging around before he became, 1:18:44.040 --> 1:18:45.120 you know, full member. 1:18:45.680 --> 1:18:48.160 And when they became a full member. I remember doing 1:18:48.200 --> 1:18:52.400 his concert one time. This is so funny, packed to 1:18:52.479 --> 1:18:54.920 the rapt us all the way around, number of people 1:18:55.680 --> 1:18:56.000 so ran. 1:18:56.120 --> 1:18:56.800 He's on the stage. 1:18:56.840 --> 1:18:59.080 He's getting his shot to be on the stage. And 1:18:59.200 --> 1:19:02.760 he was playing because he can play some kools, bongles 1:19:02.800 --> 1:19:03.479 and all that stuff. 1:19:03.560 --> 1:19:03.680 You know. 1:19:04.479 --> 1:19:06.760 That's all of a sudden, it's time for Randy to 1:19:06.880 --> 1:19:09.840 do a solo, right, All of a sudden, he gets 1:19:09.840 --> 1:19:12.640 the spotlight, get on it for him to play and. 1:19:12.680 --> 1:19:16.720 Do a solo right right, and the music breaks. 1:19:21.040 --> 1:19:24.120 And Randy fro up. Randy looked up, and so all 1:19:24.160 --> 1:19:27.320 these people start looking around around like this around seeing 1:19:27.320 --> 1:19:27.519 all this. 1:19:27.960 --> 1:19:34.519 He forgot his solo. He didn't plays play. Keep looking 1:19:34.600 --> 1:19:39.240 around all these twenty thousand people in there. Oh man, 1:19:39.760 --> 1:19:40.639 yeah he didn't play. 1:19:40.800 --> 1:19:43.840 Man. Then we came up later. Yeah, he came in later. 1:19:44.120 --> 1:19:44.320 Yeah. 1:19:45.000 --> 1:19:48.880 Now I'm gonna tell you a story. On the thirtieth anniversary, 1:19:49.000 --> 1:19:51.920 we was doing you know, Shaky Body, and we went 1:19:52.000 --> 1:19:53.600 to one corner of the stage. We run to the 1:19:53.640 --> 1:19:56.439 other corner of the stage. So we ran to the 1:19:56.760 --> 1:19:59.080 and y'all didn't even know this was happening on stage. 1:20:00.160 --> 1:20:01.840 We ran to the corner stage and we do our 1:20:01.880 --> 1:20:05.479 break and we freeze and were just waiting there, waiting there, 1:20:05.560 --> 1:20:10.080 waiting there, and Michael goes, what's next, What's next? I said, Michael, 1:20:10.080 --> 1:20:15.040 you're supposed to count it off? What this is going on? 1:20:15.360 --> 1:20:17.400 This is going on stage and I didn't even know it. 1:20:21.960 --> 1:20:24.360 Oh he didn't know the next cue, No, the. 1:20:24.439 --> 1:20:27.599 Next cue was him. He's about to go to start 1:20:27.640 --> 1:20:30.960 the band again. Oh, and he's telling us what's next, 1:20:31.040 --> 1:20:31.559 what's next? 1:20:35.080 --> 1:20:39.439 That's for television, what's the next? I remember that? 1:20:39.600 --> 1:20:44.680 Yeah, so for for those for those shows, though, how 1:20:44.760 --> 1:20:48.280 much preparation goes into that, and like who decides what 1:20:48.479 --> 1:20:53.080 musicians come aboard? Who decides like Duck Henning is now 1:20:53.880 --> 1:20:55.160 I'm assuming that's Duck Henning. 1:20:55.240 --> 1:20:59.920 That helped the first The only thing Doug Henning did 1:21:00.040 --> 1:21:01.960 it what's the what's the magic? 1:21:02.240 --> 1:21:06.200 That's all he did, even introducing magic to a show 1:21:06.400 --> 1:21:09.720 like who who? Like what what's the pre meeting? The 1:21:09.840 --> 1:21:13.400 pre meeting? Uh situation like before that, even. 1:21:14.560 --> 1:21:17.840 Before Jackie, you you might not know. Before you all came. 1:21:18.400 --> 1:21:20.559 Michael and I went and we met with Doug Henny 1:21:20.680 --> 1:21:24.360 to look at all whatever magic he had, and we 1:21:24.520 --> 1:21:29.519 picked the one. We picked the one that goes up 1:21:29.600 --> 1:21:32.120 and explosion there that that would work for the show, 1:21:32.400 --> 1:21:35.400 and then you all came the second time we used Magi. 1:21:35.520 --> 1:21:37.760 It wasn't Doug Kenny Jackie. Who was I forgot who 1:21:38.280 --> 1:21:41.720 he's on the Come on Copperfield. 1:21:42.720 --> 1:21:52.280 David Copper He's running right, he's the one. 1:21:52.800 --> 1:21:56.720 But what was the decision to add those elements to 1:21:56.800 --> 1:22:00.000 the show that just came out of nowhere? 1:22:01.080 --> 1:22:03.320 Because you know, at that particular time, a lot of 1:22:03.360 --> 1:22:06.080 acts were doing something similar to that. You know, they 1:22:06.160 --> 1:22:13.679 had something special, like an illusion or something like that, right, yeah, 1:22:14.200 --> 1:22:16.120 And we decided we add this to the show. 1:22:16.160 --> 1:22:18.120 It's going to be something incredible, you know, you know 1:22:18.479 --> 1:22:19.280 what I show. 1:22:19.280 --> 1:22:24.200 Because we we've always had a high energy type show, 1:22:24.360 --> 1:22:28.000 you know, okay, people dancing and a lot of a 1:22:28.080 --> 1:22:32.280 lot of energy and pretty much a nice sized production. 1:22:32.800 --> 1:22:34.600 So we decided we add this to the show. It 1:22:34.600 --> 1:22:36.960 would just go over the top, you know, right, That's 1:22:37.000 --> 1:22:38.639 how and that's how we were thinking. 1:22:39.360 --> 1:22:41.559 I was going to say, I'll let my look, I'll 1:22:41.600 --> 1:22:46.160 let the listeners know that, especially watching all this as 1:22:46.280 --> 1:22:50.320 like a nine ten year older, no one has utilized 1:22:50.720 --> 1:22:55.719 slow motion effects better than the Jackson's Like practically every 1:22:55.840 --> 1:22:58.680 Variety show they were ever on. There's a moment I mean, 1:22:58.720 --> 1:23:01.280 I thought you guys could fly. There's always some point 1:23:01.560 --> 1:23:06.280 in that performance where you guys either running or airlifting, 1:23:06.400 --> 1:23:08.040 like seven feet up in the air. And I was like, Yo, 1:23:08.160 --> 1:23:12.080 the Jacksons can really fly like that. I didn't realize 1:23:12.160 --> 1:23:15.000 till later that you know, that's called post editing. But 1:23:15.640 --> 1:23:17.919 I just start you guys at magic flying ability. 1:23:18.960 --> 1:23:21.400 I want to know, how do you guys, you know, 1:23:21.479 --> 1:23:23.439 we were talking about we were talking about the CBS 1:23:23.520 --> 1:23:27.680 years how when you guys left Motown and you know, 1:23:27.840 --> 1:23:30.880 how did y'all kind of repair that relationship with Barry 1:23:30.920 --> 1:23:33.000 Gordy later on? Like how did he, you know, take 1:23:33.040 --> 1:23:36.200 y'all leaving and you know, where's the Joab's relationship at 1:23:36.280 --> 1:23:36.599 with him? 1:23:36.640 --> 1:23:36.760 Now? 1:23:39.080 --> 1:23:41.040 We're cool, always. 1:23:42.439 --> 1:23:42.919 Cool. 1:23:43.600 --> 1:23:46.680 You know, business is business. Just a business decision. And 1:23:46.800 --> 1:23:49.800 we were young. It was a decision that my father 1:23:49.920 --> 1:23:54.400 actually you know, you know, made and and so we 1:23:54.600 --> 1:23:57.720 moved forward on it. But I think one of the 1:23:58.520 --> 1:24:01.160 I remember someone telling me, you know, Jackie, you might 1:24:01.200 --> 1:24:04.360 have that. Barry Gordy said, the worst thing he ever 1:24:04.439 --> 1:24:07.720 did is let the Jackson five get away from Motown. Man. 1:24:09.080 --> 1:24:13.320 Yeah, And there was no like space or room for 1:24:14.320 --> 1:24:16.920 any discussion of Okay, how many songs do you want 1:24:16.920 --> 1:24:21.400 to produce? Or or I'll call your bluff and see 1:24:21.400 --> 1:24:22.960 if you guys would like Did he really think you 1:24:23.000 --> 1:24:24.360 guys wouldn't leave or anything. 1:24:25.439 --> 1:24:28.600 I don't know the details, but I think basically he 1:24:28.800 --> 1:24:31.639 felt that there wasn't broke. Why try to fix something 1:24:31.760 --> 1:24:37.680 that's working, you know? So basically I don't think he 1:24:38.000 --> 1:24:42.480 had that. We had never wrote or produced anything publicly, 1:24:43.400 --> 1:24:46.920 so I think he just felt why changed things too much? 1:24:48.160 --> 1:24:58.200 Yeah, I have questions about the Triumph album because that's where, individually, 1:24:58.280 --> 1:25:01.000 you guys really can into your own as far as 1:25:01.080 --> 1:25:05.639 songwriting and producing is concerned. Side note, Jackie, you you've 1:25:05.760 --> 1:25:08.640 actually written my favorite Jackson song of all time, like 1:25:09.360 --> 1:25:12.320 Your Ways is like my all time favorite song in life. 1:25:14.720 --> 1:25:18.040 Oh oh god, yeah, no, no, no doubt. I mean 1:25:18.479 --> 1:25:20.879 no offense to you other Jackson's, but you know that's. 1:25:24.320 --> 1:25:25.800 Where you go off all your ways, that's the way 1:25:25.800 --> 1:25:27.880 I go forgive it up. I love I know Marlin, 1:25:27.960 --> 1:25:29.760 like that's you you sing in lead with Michael on 1:25:29.800 --> 1:25:32.360 that one man. I love I love that song man, 1:25:32.560 --> 1:25:35.240 And I thought y'all really was y'all. Was that in 1:25:35.320 --> 1:25:36.920 sence y'all trying to go for kind of the yacht 1:25:37.040 --> 1:25:38.400 rock kind of I guess that. 1:25:38.720 --> 1:25:39.800 You know that kind of song. 1:25:39.920 --> 1:25:42.360 No, it just said that's what the song called for, 1:25:42.640 --> 1:25:43.880 So that's what you get it. 1:25:44.400 --> 1:25:44.800 I love it. 1:25:45.880 --> 1:25:48.880 There's the magic that happens in the studio when you're working, 1:25:49.280 --> 1:25:51.479 all of a sudden somebody hit you with someone the 1:25:51.560 --> 1:25:54.760 song needs this, bam, so you do it. You know, 1:25:55.200 --> 1:26:00.320 it's it's you know, it's just work. It's just you know, 1:26:00.720 --> 1:26:02.240 you can't go in and say I'm gonna do this, 1:26:02.400 --> 1:26:04.160 I'm gonna do that, i'mna do that. It doesn't work 1:26:04.240 --> 1:26:04.559 that way. 1:26:05.560 --> 1:26:05.720 You know. 1:26:05.800 --> 1:26:08.640 It's it's a feel, it's a you know. That's why 1:26:08.680 --> 1:26:11.120 I try to tell some of the kids today. And 1:26:11.280 --> 1:26:14.479 with all these electronics that they use, and I tell people, 1:26:14.840 --> 1:26:17.320 how are they supposed to get the sound the way 1:26:17.400 --> 1:26:20.640 that instrument really sound if you never heard that instrument? Right? 1:26:21.680 --> 1:26:24.600 And and and and these these these three albums that 1:26:24.680 --> 1:26:26.840 were just released a couple of days ago. 1:26:27.560 --> 1:26:28.040 Mm hmmm. 1:26:28.960 --> 1:26:31.320 They have great songs on the songs that never get 1:26:31.400 --> 1:26:34.240 that attention, you know what I'm saying. But your ways 1:26:34.600 --> 1:26:37.080 now they're sticking those out. They did some remixing. They 1:26:37.120 --> 1:26:39.400 sound great, really, I mean it's. 1:26:39.280 --> 1:26:41.479 The Blues Away used one of my favorite. 1:26:41.680 --> 1:26:42.719 Yeah, they sound great. 1:26:44.000 --> 1:26:45.920 And that's what you get for being polite and things. 1:26:46.040 --> 1:26:48.599 Yeah, that's on there too. Yeah, all that stuff I heard. 1:26:48.880 --> 1:26:50.920 It sounds great, different mixes on it. 1:26:51.320 --> 1:26:53.200 How do you guys write the songs together? 1:26:53.640 --> 1:26:56.560 Well, we started, we started writing. We started writing the 1:26:56.800 --> 1:27:01.640 Destiny album when Michael was doing The Weed. You know. 1:27:01.760 --> 1:27:03.640 That's why I wanted to know, how is it like 1:27:03.920 --> 1:27:06.160 how what was the process of doing Destiny while he 1:27:06.280 --> 1:27:08.439 was doing the Wiz? Did it come out before or after? 1:27:09.520 --> 1:27:11.800 Wells was after the Whiz? Correct? 1:27:12.680 --> 1:27:15.040 Yes, right, We were getting the studio and just start 1:27:15.120 --> 1:27:17.360 writing songs. We you know, meet up at noon and 1:27:18.160 --> 1:27:20.720 we're going to spend you know, four or five five 1:27:20.760 --> 1:27:22.560 hours in the studio and we're gonna come up with 1:27:22.640 --> 1:27:23.880 some stuff and write some songs. 1:27:24.160 --> 1:27:29.240 And sometimes we do Tito had this big camper, you know, 1:27:29.360 --> 1:27:31.840 with the three stooges on it. We would take it 1:27:31.880 --> 1:27:35.720 out to the beach and sit by the ocean and 1:27:35.800 --> 1:27:38.280 write lyrics and we do things like that and go 1:27:38.439 --> 1:27:41.519 out in different plant areas and go in to camper 1:27:41.640 --> 1:27:44.439 and just write lyrics and come back, you know, spend 1:27:44.520 --> 1:27:47.879 about five or six hours out you know, the Pacific 1:27:47.960 --> 1:27:51.640 Ocean at the beach, and park the camper sideways and 1:27:51.760 --> 1:27:53.960 just look at the ways, and we have food in 1:27:54.080 --> 1:27:58.800 their sandwiches, and we write lyrics and and write songs. Yeah, 1:27:59.120 --> 1:28:01.720 and then go back. I can studio record because we 1:28:01.760 --> 1:28:02.759 all had a whole recording. 1:28:04.320 --> 1:28:07.600 Oh okay, gotcha, man, I must know for all the 1:28:07.720 --> 1:28:08.639 people in my generation. 1:28:08.800 --> 1:28:11.000 So this song came out. I guess I was four. 1:28:11.760 --> 1:28:16.160 The video for can You Feel It? Dude, that was 1:28:16.240 --> 1:28:18.040 the scariest, most awesome. 1:28:19.680 --> 1:28:22.559 Can I piggy back on top of that? On top 1:28:22.600 --> 1:28:25.280 of that? You were four with can You Feel It? 1:28:25.680 --> 1:28:29.599 But try explaining to a seven year old this reflection 1:28:29.760 --> 1:28:33.080 ship for blaming on the boogie, which absolutely scared the 1:28:33.160 --> 1:28:35.800 ship out of me as a kid, because Soult train 1:28:35.840 --> 1:28:37.639 would come on at one in the morning. So watching 1:28:37.720 --> 1:28:40.880 you guys with this reflective ship and like here my 1:28:41.000 --> 1:28:43.439 dad's musicians say, like, oh, that's what the a Nassai 1:28:43.479 --> 1:28:46.880 trip is like a mere Like again, I know, you 1:28:46.960 --> 1:28:49.800 guys are one step ahead of technology with everything that 1:28:49.920 --> 1:28:53.160 y'all have done, but what was I mean? Yeah, blame 1:28:53.200 --> 1:28:59.479 it on the Boogie and can you feel it? They 1:28:59.520 --> 1:29:01.960 were big. Yeah, I was like the big niggas just 1:29:02.040 --> 1:29:11.840 frequently I could go away from it. I think by 1:29:11.880 --> 1:29:14.800 that point, you guys are in your mid twenties almost thirty, 1:29:14.920 --> 1:29:20.439 so it's different. But when you're this, you're watching, when 1:29:20.439 --> 1:29:22.840 you're watching under the age of ten, it's a whole 1:29:22.880 --> 1:29:25.240 another it's a different thing. Yeah, Blame It on the 1:29:25.240 --> 1:29:28.479 Boogie used to actually scare me, like just to watch 1:29:28.520 --> 1:29:33.400 because I couldn't understand this whole reflection thing and free 1:29:33.840 --> 1:29:39.640 it that scared me became Michael with Thrilling Thanks Thriller. No, 1:29:39.760 --> 1:29:43.160 we were after scaring us for two years with that 1:29:43.240 --> 1:29:49.120 ship as big as marbles chasing Michael and don't stop 1:29:49.160 --> 1:29:51.120 to good enough like we were used to it at 1:29:51.160 --> 1:29:55.400 the time. But yeah, even when making Okay, so in 1:29:55.520 --> 1:29:57.479 doing the Blame It on the Boogie video, was that 1:29:57.720 --> 1:29:59.640 just like fifteen minutes out of your life, Like what 1:29:59.720 --> 1:30:01.479 are we we go over there, we dance, Okay, that's 1:30:01.520 --> 1:30:03.280 it and those. 1:30:03.160 --> 1:30:05.240 Are just effects we put on there afterwards, you know, 1:30:05.720 --> 1:30:07.280 you know how long did. 1:30:07.200 --> 1:30:10.040 That whole process take in Like just to record you 1:30:10.160 --> 1:30:11.600 just did like a couple of takes of it and 1:30:11.640 --> 1:30:12.240 then that was it. 1:30:12.439 --> 1:30:14.600 Yeah, all the all the work is really done in 1:30:14.640 --> 1:30:21.200 the editing room on a lot of those videos. Watch it, 1:30:21.400 --> 1:30:23.760 and it is done on the greens. A lot of 1:30:23.760 --> 1:30:26.760 stuff is done on a green screen or a chroma key, 1:30:26.840 --> 1:30:30.479 whatever you want to call it. Right, Yes, And I 1:30:30.560 --> 1:30:32.519 mean today they have it a lot easier. You can 1:30:32.760 --> 1:30:35.840 do stuff on your computer and everything is at your fingertips. 1:30:35.960 --> 1:30:38.200 But it wasn't that way back in the day, not 1:30:38.360 --> 1:30:38.639 at all. 1:30:39.280 --> 1:30:43.240 Who chose the musician personnel for those records, because you 1:30:43.320 --> 1:30:47.559 guys had like the monsters, you had likes Nathan Watts 1:30:47.600 --> 1:30:51.519 and great feeling gains. Yeah, with great feeling gains. 1:30:52.120 --> 1:30:54.040 Those guys basically hung out with her. They were like 1:30:54.120 --> 1:30:55.240 friends of ours. We hung out. 1:30:56.640 --> 1:31:02.320 Yeah, we hung out a lot together, all of us. Williams, 1:31:02.720 --> 1:31:07.559 Ray Parker, all the show, We all hang out. 1:31:07.720 --> 1:31:09.040 We all hung out together. 1:31:10.200 --> 1:31:10.400 Yeah. 1:31:10.479 --> 1:31:13.759 Ray Parker played on a lot of Jackson's material. 1:31:14.439 --> 1:31:19.559 You know David Williams, Yeah, he's David Is I feel 1:31:19.600 --> 1:31:22.680 like an extension of I mean, he's Billy Preston as 1:31:22.680 --> 1:31:25.120 far as I'm concerned. To you, guys, Beatles, like his 1:31:25.280 --> 1:31:26.240 guitar sound is. 1:31:26.320 --> 1:31:27.120 Like it is. 1:31:27.760 --> 1:31:31.120 People even our band members. Man, David got some bad 1:31:31.200 --> 1:31:34.200 guitar legs. You know how did he get there? I said, 1:31:35.520 --> 1:31:38.519 we we told David what we wanted him to play. 1:31:40.000 --> 1:31:42.560 So so we we come up with a guitar in 1:31:42.640 --> 1:31:45.560 our head, and we tell him how to play it 1:31:45.640 --> 1:31:49.760 and how we wanted to sound, and and then we 1:31:49.960 --> 1:31:53.639 go back and what made that. David's the guitar player. 1:31:53.640 --> 1:31:57.280 They already had bite but to make but to make 1:31:57.320 --> 1:31:59.840 it even stronger than what it was we would do 1:32:00.080 --> 1:32:04.519 was incredible. He would he was a massive locking it down, 1:32:04.720 --> 1:32:12.960 locking it. He wouldn't lock it, but he just like 1:32:13.000 --> 1:32:15.360 he would bite it when he play like he's like 1:32:15.439 --> 1:32:21.200 he's pulling the strings like that. Okay, David, we gotta 1:32:21.200 --> 1:32:22.720 do another take. Okay, wait a minute, let me get 1:32:22.720 --> 1:32:29.679 a pizza of my chicken. What he has some fried 1:32:29.800 --> 1:32:30.599 chicken on the side. 1:32:34.000 --> 1:32:35.839 He liked to get the fingers. 1:32:36.280 --> 1:32:39.120 Wait a minute, I know what I want to ask. Okay, 1:32:39.240 --> 1:32:44.000 I cheat it. I have the sim so I've heard it. 1:32:44.840 --> 1:32:49.800 I gotta know. Okay, I'm assuming that because of how 1:32:50.600 --> 1:32:54.120 time has to be edited so that an entire album 1:32:54.240 --> 1:33:02.320 side can fit. Jackie on wondering who why was Michael's 1:33:02.439 --> 1:33:07.120 bridge taken out? Was it just to cut? Was it 1:33:07.560 --> 1:33:10.280 just to cut or edit? So that that. 1:33:12.160 --> 1:33:14.000 Let me explain what you tell. So the listener is 1:33:14.000 --> 1:33:18.120 gonna stand back. If you had too much low end 1:33:18.280 --> 1:33:21.080 and you try to master it, it'll spread and eat 1:33:21.160 --> 1:33:24.920 up more of the record. You have to master and 1:33:25.000 --> 1:33:27.800 get the right sounds and get everything. It's not that 1:33:27.880 --> 1:33:30.799 way today, but you know, and we go to Bernie 1:33:31.160 --> 1:33:35.439 Grub and mastering all he did all the mastering, and 1:33:36.200 --> 1:33:38.680 a lot of times we'd be in the studio, I mean, 1:33:39.200 --> 1:33:42.120 how many minutes is it? You know, because we only 1:33:42.160 --> 1:33:45.439 can put so many minutes on a record. Yeah, yeah, 1:33:45.600 --> 1:33:47.479 and if you got to sell, if you got a 1:33:47.560 --> 1:33:49.600 record like Shake your Body with a lot of low end, 1:33:50.120 --> 1:33:53.360 then your minutes get less because it's gonna eat up 1:33:53.360 --> 1:33:56.680 more space. And so we will always keep track of 1:33:56.720 --> 1:33:59.280 the time on how much time that we had to 1:33:59.360 --> 1:34:01.680 put on there and get in there, and sometimes we. 1:34:01.760 --> 1:34:02.599 Had to make edits. 1:34:03.360 --> 1:34:04.800 That's right, so it'll fit. 1:34:05.840 --> 1:34:10.400 So my question is though, I mean, you know, walk 1:34:10.520 --> 1:34:16.080 right Now is a guardiange Wan Time song seven minutes right, Like, 1:34:16.240 --> 1:34:18.800 why not edit from walk right Now? Instead of taking 1:34:18.920 --> 1:34:23.519 like Michael's part out of wondering who I mean, no 1:34:23.600 --> 1:34:25.920 one misses it because no one's ever heard it. But 1:34:26.040 --> 1:34:29.040 I thought that was a very curious edit and always 1:34:29.080 --> 1:34:29.680 wondered like. 1:34:30.200 --> 1:34:31.400 Why did you take his part out? 1:34:31.720 --> 1:34:35.240 Well, you could have saved twenty three minutes. You could 1:34:35.280 --> 1:34:38.160 have shaved twenty three seconds from walk right now. But 1:34:38.320 --> 1:34:39.360 instead you. 1:34:39.400 --> 1:34:48.240 Don't know that answer, No, Jaggie, don't it just happened. 1:34:49.560 --> 1:34:51.600 We weren't feeling it and it was just happening. But 1:34:52.600 --> 1:34:56.080 on walk right now, we want to capture it now 1:34:56.320 --> 1:35:04.320 walk right now, but walk right now away. But uh 1:35:05.000 --> 1:35:09.240 we uh, we had the percussionist of Pauline or the 1:35:09.320 --> 1:35:12.000 Costa you said, uh it used to come in the 1:35:12.080 --> 1:35:15.000 studio and he have all his toys around him and 1:35:15.080 --> 1:35:17.320 all that stuff, right, and so he's trying to get 1:35:17.360 --> 1:35:21.439 some sound. But yes, and he would be laughing playing 1:35:21.520 --> 1:35:24.760 but he can play his rump off and uh. And 1:35:24.960 --> 1:35:27.240 we want to make sure that we kept all the stuff. 1:35:27.280 --> 1:35:31.680 He did keep all the stuff and on walk right now, 1:35:32.880 --> 1:35:34.400 what we One of the things we did is we 1:35:34.520 --> 1:35:36.720 took the tape, we splice it, and we took the 1:35:36.800 --> 1:35:40.600 tape and we played it backwards. Yeah, you know, so 1:35:40.760 --> 1:35:43.000 we because you know computers today, you can do whatever 1:35:43.000 --> 1:35:44.680 you want to do, but back in those days, but 1:35:44.800 --> 1:35:47.000 when you do that, you've got to make sure that 1:35:47.320 --> 1:35:49.679 it's in sync. You got to be on the down beat. 1:35:52.479 --> 1:35:55.519 And it takes it took a while for us to 1:35:55.600 --> 1:35:57.640 get that down just the way we wanted so it 1:35:57.760 --> 1:36:00.439 can come right on the down boundary. It and something 1:36:00.479 --> 1:36:04.120 that just happened like that, and we're breathing over the 1:36:04.520 --> 1:36:06.840 over the engineer to make sure he's splicing at the 1:36:06.920 --> 1:36:09.479 right time, right spot, because you don't get a chance, 1:36:09.560 --> 1:36:13.640 second chance, right exactly, you know, and he's nervous and 1:36:13.840 --> 1:36:17.439 get the razor blade and you know, then Spice put 1:36:17.479 --> 1:36:21.840 it all back together and we listened to it. It 1:36:21.920 --> 1:36:24.599 ain't down beat, Okay, we got to come back reverse 1:36:24.680 --> 1:36:25.280 and put him. 1:36:26.960 --> 1:36:27.120 You know. 1:36:27.320 --> 1:36:28.719 So it took it took some time. 1:36:28.920 --> 1:36:30.560 You know what I mean, right, you know, No, I 1:36:30.640 --> 1:36:35.040 totally look Steve, I'm surprised Steve's not weighing in probably 1:36:35.160 --> 1:36:38.559 of any album that I've studied, the mixing and mastering 1:36:38.640 --> 1:36:44.760 of probably the Trump record. I asked, uh, well, yeah, 1:36:44.840 --> 1:36:46.599 the last couple of years of my life, I've been 1:36:48.800 --> 1:36:52.800 you know, yeah, for my fortieth I asked, back when 1:36:52.920 --> 1:36:55.240 ll A Red was president of Epic, if I could, 1:36:55.439 --> 1:36:59.240 if you could send me all the all the the 1:36:59.320 --> 1:37:03.120 stems could study, and yeah, Walk Right Now had a 1:37:03.320 --> 1:37:07.240 lot of tracks on it, even that part with Da 1:37:07.320 --> 1:37:12.080 Costa's solo with all those percussion things like just the 1:37:12.479 --> 1:37:18.320 painstaking and you guys did it without pro tools. So yeah, yeah, 1:37:18.320 --> 1:37:22.920 I know you guys had to make that ship up. Marlon. 1:37:23.479 --> 1:37:28.200 By this point, also you were doing producing yourself, working 1:37:28.240 --> 1:37:32.960 on a Betty Wright's record, in addition your sister Janet 1:37:33.000 --> 1:37:36.120 working on her Like, what can you talk about your 1:37:36.160 --> 1:37:38.080 first four race into outside producing? 1:37:39.160 --> 1:37:42.479 Well, don't stand another chance? Is is a song that 1:37:42.600 --> 1:37:43.719 Jump Barnes and I wrote? 1:37:43.920 --> 1:37:47.280 And can you also explain to cherylne connection with that. 1:37:48.080 --> 1:37:51.960 Because there's no Shirlene connection. 1:37:53.240 --> 1:37:59.200 Well, the I have a track of a cheryln song 1:37:59.600 --> 1:38:03.920 singing the same rhythm track, but just new lyrics of it. 1:38:04.360 --> 1:38:08.160 I never understood the difference between I've never heard that. Yeah, 1:38:08.240 --> 1:38:12.640 it's called Love's. 1:38:10.880 --> 1:38:13.200 Quesse Love clus got stuff you don't even have. 1:38:18.320 --> 1:38:19.719 Did you have been up on Mars? 1:38:22.080 --> 1:38:26.000 I actually asked. I was confused about it, and Jimmy 1:38:26.120 --> 1:38:29.680 Jim had told me there's Yeah, there's a song that 1:38:29.840 --> 1:38:33.479 came out on on her Instant not the Instant Love album, 1:38:33.800 --> 1:38:38.720 but it's called Love Love Rush Love Rush, It's on 1:38:39.080 --> 1:38:42.400 the Preppy album. So I wanted to know, if you like, 1:38:42.680 --> 1:38:45.479 what was what was the working relationship with John Barnes 1:38:45.479 --> 1:38:48.719 as far as putting that song together. 1:38:49.320 --> 1:38:53.800 We just came in and John John was playing this 1:38:53.920 --> 1:38:56.400 song and you wanted me to do the lyrics and 1:38:57.360 --> 1:38:59.320 and so I said, yeah, let's get it done. Let's 1:38:59.360 --> 1:39:02.320 do it. So we worked on worked on it together. 1:39:02.720 --> 1:39:04.800 John and John, John Barnes and I used to hang 1:39:04.880 --> 1:39:06.040 out all the time. He used to come over to 1:39:06.160 --> 1:39:08.320 the house all the time. And we just started writing 1:39:08.400 --> 1:39:09.680 stuff and doing stuff. 1:39:10.240 --> 1:39:13.599 And working with with Betty Wright also that process. 1:39:13.640 --> 1:39:16.479 Betty, Betty is a Betty is a great person. She's ah, 1:39:17.080 --> 1:39:21.280 you rest in peace. She just passed away, right, but 1:39:22.320 --> 1:39:24.559 she she was. She's a great woman. She's a great 1:39:24.640 --> 1:39:27.680 singer too. And on on that album. Luther did a 1:39:27.720 --> 1:39:30.160 lot of background stuff on that album before people knew 1:39:30.160 --> 1:39:34.040 who Luther Vandross was, you know. And I had a 1:39:34.080 --> 1:39:37.320 great time in the studio working with Betty. And you know, 1:39:37.680 --> 1:39:42.400 she's funny, she's she's a vocal coach as well. Uh, 1:39:42.800 --> 1:39:45.519 you know, and Betty knew every damn body you know, 1:39:45.680 --> 1:39:47.920 so when you needed something, she's a don't worry, I 1:39:48.000 --> 1:39:50.880 got it. You know, we're calling people to do stuff 1:39:50.920 --> 1:39:54.479 for us. And the end, uh, I called in John 1:39:54.560 --> 1:39:58.000 Barnes to come in because we had this band that 1:39:58.280 --> 1:40:01.519 was doing these tracks with us, and and the tracks 1:40:01.640 --> 1:40:05.600 kept swimming and the drama just couldn't keep time. And 1:40:05.920 --> 1:40:11.880 so the limb machine, the drum limb machine, it had 1:40:12.080 --> 1:40:16.719 just come out, right, So I told John to step 1:40:16.760 --> 1:40:19.360 at my house and grab my drum limb machine, because 1:40:20.160 --> 1:40:23.559 you know, I knew how to program that that machine 1:40:23.600 --> 1:40:27.479 to make drums sound like to make to make them 1:40:27.600 --> 1:40:32.240 sound like rest wrong, like real, like like real real drums. 1:40:32.240 --> 1:40:33.040 And that's the whole key. 1:40:33.240 --> 1:40:36.400 I don't want to take it. Please actually, Jackie for 1:40:36.520 --> 1:40:39.320 you as well. I know that your solo album came 1:40:39.360 --> 1:40:42.120 out in seventy three. Are you Are you even aware 1:40:42.240 --> 1:40:46.120 that Is It Him or Me is kind of held 1:40:46.200 --> 1:40:49.679 up in high regard and in sort of hip hop circles. 1:40:50.120 --> 1:40:53.439 That's kind of a well because it has a drum, 1:40:53.720 --> 1:40:57.000 a famous drum break on it that you know, an 1:40:57.040 --> 1:41:02.240 obscure album can suddenly become like uh no, no, no, no, 1:41:02.280 --> 1:41:06.000 it wasn't aware in active. Okay, yeah, I was going 1:41:06.080 --> 1:41:08.720 to say, like is it him or me? But I 1:41:08.800 --> 1:41:11.000 wanted to know about that song? Is that to you? 1:41:11.200 --> 1:41:14.880 Just like it's funny you say that because I noticed 1:41:15.520 --> 1:41:17.840 my boys. I got twin boys here, they're very young, 1:41:17.960 --> 1:41:21.560 and over the last two weeks they've been playing that 1:41:21.680 --> 1:41:24.000 a lot in the house and I was hearing that, 1:41:24.360 --> 1:41:26.360 you know, I was upstairs and I was here, who's 1:41:26.400 --> 1:41:29.160 that singing? And it was me and you know, and 1:41:29.280 --> 1:41:31.640 my boys were like, they're seven years old. You know, 1:41:31.720 --> 1:41:34.560 it's twin boys, and they play all of our all 1:41:34.640 --> 1:41:37.040 of our music, all right, But all of a sudden, 1:41:37.040 --> 1:41:40.000 they was playing my solo album. I haven't heard that 1:41:40.080 --> 1:41:44.160 stuff in about twenty years my solo stuff maybe longer 1:41:44.240 --> 1:41:46.840 than that. And it was planning and I was really 1:41:47.360 --> 1:41:49.519 I was really grooving off of it, you know, thanks 1:41:49.560 --> 1:41:52.519 to them, but just bringing you know, to my attention 1:41:52.680 --> 1:41:55.840 and it sounds great, you know, yeah, a lot a 1:41:55.920 --> 1:41:59.280 lot of time when I tour people as aspect, how 1:41:59.320 --> 1:42:00.479 come you don't do the songs? 1:42:00.520 --> 1:42:00.640 You know? 1:42:00.960 --> 1:42:02.559 When I do the meet and wed? How can you're 1:42:02.600 --> 1:42:03.519 not doing these songs? 1:42:03.560 --> 1:42:03.720 You know? 1:42:05.320 --> 1:42:10.960 For again, for hip hop producers, like that album is one. 1:42:10.840 --> 1:42:14.240 Of the you know, yeah, it's one of those things that's. 1:42:14.120 --> 1:42:16.360 One of yeah that just caught on. So for hip 1:42:16.400 --> 1:42:19.200 hop collectors like is it Him or Me is like 1:42:19.360 --> 1:42:22.760 one of our one of our our favorite songs. But 1:42:23.479 --> 1:42:26.120 actually for the both of you, with you Marlon and 1:42:26.320 --> 1:42:31.000 with you Jackie working on Baby Tonight and your album 1:42:31.120 --> 1:42:34.240 was a be the one, what was what was that 1:42:34.360 --> 1:42:39.120 process like, like finally working on your solo albums in 1:42:39.280 --> 1:42:42.679 that time period like after the after the Victory album 1:42:42.800 --> 1:42:44.680 and and those things, like, what was what was that 1:42:45.479 --> 1:42:47.799 process like for you working on those albums? 1:42:48.120 --> 1:42:51.439 For me, it was, well, I had a studio in 1:42:52.120 --> 1:42:54.040 the back of my house, so I'd get up in 1:42:54.160 --> 1:42:57.759 pajamas and just going to studios, spin on a practice 1:42:57.840 --> 1:43:01.360 almost all night there and and just come up with 1:43:01.400 --> 1:43:04.799 a bunch of stuff or you know, in the studio 1:43:05.479 --> 1:43:09.240 and there's a lot of stuff that I have that 1:43:09.720 --> 1:43:13.720 was never released or you know, hasn't been out, and uh, 1:43:14.040 --> 1:43:16.160 some good stuff too. I think I was playing some 1:43:16.280 --> 1:43:19.560 of some of it the other day, and you know, 1:43:19.640 --> 1:43:23.439 you've been doing it all your life, so it's almost 1:43:23.560 --> 1:43:26.720 like second nature is not something you know that you 1:43:26.840 --> 1:43:29.840 whoa it's like, Okay, got to get another project done. 1:43:29.880 --> 1:43:32.400 You got to do this. I mean we grew up 1:43:32.400 --> 1:43:36.400 in the studio, we from from young kids to to now. 1:43:36.640 --> 1:43:39.679 So when you get in the studio, you you pretty 1:43:39.720 --> 1:43:42.200 much know the ins and out. You know, you how 1:43:42.280 --> 1:43:45.519 to work the boards, how to engineer this stuff. You 1:43:45.560 --> 1:43:49.200 know what you're looking for. So it was it wasn't 1:43:49.360 --> 1:43:54.920 It wasn't that difficult. But it's fun, especially when you 1:43:54.960 --> 1:43:57.360 start working on some stuff for you for yourself. You know, 1:43:57.640 --> 1:43:59.760 you try to make it fun, but you want to 1:43:59.760 --> 1:44:02.120 make sure, as you know, you try to capture what 1:44:02.200 --> 1:44:05.040 you're looking for. But it was it wasn't that difficult. 1:44:05.360 --> 1:44:07.200 I mean, you pretty much use the same guys that 1:44:07.280 --> 1:44:09.400 you always used on the Destiny. You call in Greg 1:44:09.520 --> 1:44:11.960 Field and Games to play some stuff, David Williams to 1:44:12.000 --> 1:44:14.960 play some licks for you, some awesome stuff that you 1:44:15.040 --> 1:44:17.839 want to do. You know, you get with Jerry Hale. 1:44:18.000 --> 1:44:21.080 Or somebody and give them the horned lenks. 1:44:21.240 --> 1:44:22.840 You want to go right out the chart to do. 1:44:23.400 --> 1:44:24.680 Let me in on this. 1:44:24.800 --> 1:44:27.920 And one thing about these these artists that we had, 1:44:28.000 --> 1:44:31.839 these these you know, like I said before, these artists, 1:44:32.280 --> 1:44:35.080 they they hung around us as friends, so they know 1:44:35.240 --> 1:44:36.080 everything about us. 1:44:36.120 --> 1:44:38.760 They know exactly what we were looking for. Uh. 1:44:38.880 --> 1:44:41.160 They were friends of all. We hung out together and 1:44:41.280 --> 1:44:43.519 we we went to dinner together. We did a lot 1:44:43.560 --> 1:44:45.439 of things. Matter of fact, they were our ages. I 1:44:45.479 --> 1:44:49.120 mean they grew up with us, so everything came in 1:44:49.160 --> 1:44:51.400 the nature. It was easy, you know, quite easy. 1:44:52.080 --> 1:44:54.640 I was going to say, Marlon, one of one of 1:44:54.760 --> 1:44:57.400 the bands that I like is is Gritty Polity and 1:44:57.479 --> 1:45:03.400 I know that. Yeah, fred Fred Mayer, Yeah, the album 1:45:03.439 --> 1:45:03.560 with you? 1:45:03.640 --> 1:45:03.920 What was it? 1:45:04.080 --> 1:45:05.080 What was it like working with them? 1:45:05.080 --> 1:45:08.200 Fred Fred was cool because it was my first time. 1:45:08.320 --> 1:45:10.760 Fred Is One turned me onto the ad One. I 1:45:10.760 --> 1:45:12.519 don't know if you're familiar with the add one drums 1:45:13.120 --> 1:45:13.880 drum kit? 1:45:15.320 --> 1:45:15.479 Is it? 1:45:16.200 --> 1:45:19.960 Yeah? It's the same kid that Phil Collins use on 1:45:20.400 --> 1:45:25.360 I can feel it in the air tonight. Yeah, is 1:45:25.439 --> 1:45:29.479 that is that sounding? And fred Fred that a matter 1:45:29.520 --> 1:45:32.479 of fact, I bought one and we came up and 1:45:32.560 --> 1:45:35.160 we wrote a lot of stuff together. Yes, I like 1:45:35.200 --> 1:45:37.519 screaty pliny today. You be doing yourself huh. 1:45:42.520 --> 1:45:53.160 Like he had a sound, I got a whole sears. 1:45:53.160 --> 1:45:54.200 I got to write that one down to. 1:45:56.200 --> 1:45:58.479 We talked about them on another episode. I can't remember. 1:45:58.760 --> 1:46:02.400 It was kind of deeping on them. Yeah. I was 1:46:02.439 --> 1:46:05.960 going to say, no, we're not just thriller bandwagoners like 1:46:06.040 --> 1:46:08.759 we're you know we we we know the whole spectrum 1:46:08.800 --> 1:46:11.720 of the entire work of you know, all all nine 1:46:11.760 --> 1:46:16.240 of you. Actually, wait a minute, we're talking about scary videos. 1:46:17.040 --> 1:46:22.960 The one we never mentioned it was freaking torture. Oh yeah, yeah, 1:46:23.000 --> 1:46:26.920 I didn't. I didn't watch that one. Yeah, I didn't 1:46:26.920 --> 1:46:29.080 watch that one with Jackie the Eye in the head. 1:46:29.240 --> 1:46:32.960 Why that was. 1:46:36.600 --> 1:46:38.320 Torture is a great song? 1:46:39.240 --> 1:46:39.519 No, it was. 1:46:40.040 --> 1:46:41.920 It was a great song. But now I just think 1:46:41.960 --> 1:46:45.040 of and like the Slime. 1:46:46.560 --> 1:46:46.840 Story. 1:46:47.439 --> 1:46:51.120 We're on the Victory tour right the very beginning of 1:46:51.200 --> 1:46:54.960 the Victory tour, and at the time I was dating 1:46:54.960 --> 1:46:57.080 Paul Due At the time, I was the one who 1:46:57.200 --> 1:47:02.519 ropped whoever that is. I was the one who got 1:47:02.560 --> 1:47:04.640 her in the industry. I mean when she was a 1:47:04.720 --> 1:47:07.360 Laker girl. I remember sitting on the floor all. 1:47:07.280 --> 1:47:09.840 The Abduchie did you get her? In the nasty video? 1:47:10.479 --> 1:47:13.120 Me and Marlin had see some Lake and see on 1:47:13.200 --> 1:47:16.040 the floors when Magic Johnson was doing their thing at 1:47:16.080 --> 1:47:20.400 the time, And I'm sitting on the floor and every 1:47:20.479 --> 1:47:23.080 day I'm on the floor walks around every day before 1:47:23.120 --> 1:47:25.559 the game start. Dinzel would come over and say hello 1:47:25.640 --> 1:47:29.160 tover we come for. He comes in lake and I 1:47:29.240 --> 1:47:32.160 think he just came off his first big movie, his 1:47:32.360 --> 1:47:35.680 first movie, and he would walk around the place and 1:47:35.760 --> 1:47:37.719 people really didn't know who he was, and he would 1:47:37.720 --> 1:47:40.479 come over and say hello to me. But he's Dinzel today. 1:47:40.520 --> 1:47:43.240 But anyway, I'm sitting on the floor and all of 1:47:43.280 --> 1:47:46.640 a sudden, Paula comes over and another girl comes over 1:47:46.640 --> 1:47:49.800 and they want an autograph, you know, And all of 1:47:49.840 --> 1:47:53.000 a sudden I signed an autograph and she goes back 1:47:53.360 --> 1:47:55.680 and sit behind the basket, well you know where the 1:47:55.760 --> 1:47:58.360 Laker girls sit there and sit behind the basket, and 1:47:58.439 --> 1:48:00.880 all of a sudden, Sam wha and come over and 1:48:00.960 --> 1:48:05.240 said Jackie, Paula wants to know that you want to 1:48:05.280 --> 1:48:09.479 have coffee, you have to be a game. And I said, sure, 1:48:09.640 --> 1:48:12.280 let's let's go tell her. Yeah. I made her after 1:48:12.320 --> 1:48:14.040 the game, and so we went to have some coffee 1:48:14.640 --> 1:48:17.560 and we became very good friends, you know, and we 1:48:17.680 --> 1:48:18.960 dated for like four years. 1:48:19.120 --> 1:48:19.280 You know. 1:48:19.880 --> 1:48:22.240 Next thing I know, she's doing Janet videos and put 1:48:22.280 --> 1:48:24.519 her with Janet. Me and John McLean put her the Janet. 1:48:24.640 --> 1:48:28.640 She's doing all the Janet stuff. And next thing, we 1:48:28.800 --> 1:48:31.320 go on the Victory tour and we have way in 1:48:31.400 --> 1:48:34.559 New York City. So we had a cattle call of people, 1:48:34.680 --> 1:48:38.280 maybe three hundred people to be in this video. And 1:48:38.600 --> 1:48:41.680 she helped me arrange the video for torture video. And 1:48:42.520 --> 1:48:45.040 all of a sudden, I said, paul I want you 1:48:45.160 --> 1:48:46.760 to choreograph this video. 1:48:46.960 --> 1:48:47.320 She said no. 1:48:47.680 --> 1:48:49.439 I said, Paula, I believe in you. 1:48:49.840 --> 1:48:50.479 You can do it. 1:48:51.280 --> 1:48:54.720 Don't be afraid. You can do this, And and she did. 1:48:54.800 --> 1:48:56.920 And she that's the first video she choreographed. 1:48:57.680 --> 1:49:01.280 She put it together, yeah, and everything. 1:49:04.960 --> 1:49:10.600 Yes, okay, oh okay. And subsequent well assume that she 1:49:10.680 --> 1:49:14.640 also did the body video as well, because that was well, 1:49:14.680 --> 1:49:17.880 it was kind of a video of a cat of 1:49:19.240 --> 1:49:19.599 the body. 1:49:20.000 --> 1:49:24.240 She didn't. Oh no, Michael Peters did that. 1:49:24.640 --> 1:49:25.759 Oh Michael Peter. 1:49:26.520 --> 1:49:30.200 Uh, the legendary Michael Peters. 1:49:30.840 --> 1:49:33.760 Yeah, Michael Peters are bad. I don't care what in 1:49:33.840 --> 1:49:34.400 peace man. 1:49:36.360 --> 1:49:38.200 And I asked for a question, and you guys were 1:49:38.240 --> 1:49:40.120 talking about bands. I just wanted to ask about your 1:49:40.479 --> 1:49:44.320 touring bands because you imagine that like whatever the audition 1:49:44.479 --> 1:49:47.599 process is must be a must be crazy to audition 1:49:47.720 --> 1:49:49.960 for the Jackson's. But I know I was lucky enough, 1:49:50.040 --> 1:49:51.439 like I don't know, seven years ago to be a 1:49:51.680 --> 1:49:55.320 production assistant on a Jackson's tour and you guys have Yeah, 1:49:55.439 --> 1:49:57.320 But I went to London with y'all. I went to 1:49:57.439 --> 1:49:59.760 the the Isle of Wight and I went to a 1:50:00.200 --> 1:50:01.080 I didn't like. 1:50:03.080 --> 1:50:08.559 Yeah, I was. 1:50:08.560 --> 1:50:12.080 Helping out with Bill Brown and Nick and everybody gap 1:50:12.120 --> 1:50:14.000 helping you in the dressing rooms. Listen. I was on 1:50:14.080 --> 1:50:15.760 a hustle. When you get fire from radio, you gout, 1:50:16.040 --> 1:50:20.479 you know, because I love Bill Brown. I didn't know this, Yeah, 1:50:22.760 --> 1:50:26.680 I mentioned because I took a whole stele. 1:50:26.960 --> 1:50:29.640 Yeah, I tour with the Jackson's, you know. One time I. 1:50:29.680 --> 1:50:32.000 Worked for the Jackson's and it was just amazing to 1:50:32.040 --> 1:50:34.519 see that, like the band that y'all formed was not 1:50:34.640 --> 1:50:36.280 only just some of them were young, like your music 1:50:36.320 --> 1:50:38.439 director of Brandon at the time, he was like thirty 1:50:38.720 --> 1:50:43.559 early maybe thirty right, but just a dynamic, amazing, stupendous band. 1:50:43.600 --> 1:50:45.360 And you combined it with some ogs. But can you 1:50:45.439 --> 1:50:48.080 just talk about the process now for to put together 1:50:48.120 --> 1:50:52.160 a Jackson band who's playing bass by the way, in 1:50:52.240 --> 1:50:58.200 your current band, Brandon is young. Brandon want to Oscar 1:50:58.479 --> 1:50:59.960 when he was for three six Mafia. 1:51:01.000 --> 1:51:04.280 Oh yeah, killing. 1:51:07.520 --> 1:51:10.080 And your drummer and your drummer and your percussionists. 1:51:10.120 --> 1:51:10.760 Oh my god. 1:51:11.640 --> 1:51:14.560 Yeah, but what is the process now? But what's the 1:51:14.600 --> 1:51:16.599 process now? How did you how do you decide who's 1:51:16.600 --> 1:51:17.240 good enough. 1:51:17.120 --> 1:51:20.519 To well, you know, you know, you know, when those 1:51:20.560 --> 1:51:23.439 guys come in, they come in knowing the music. 1:51:23.760 --> 1:51:26.560 They come in playing it because they grew up on it. 1:51:27.520 --> 1:51:28.400 We had years to learn it. 1:51:28.800 --> 1:51:30.760 Yeh yeah, they come in knowing the stuff. You know 1:51:31.439 --> 1:51:33.920 when they started playing. Oh my god, these young cauts, 1:51:34.280 --> 1:51:35.479 how do they know this stuff like this? 1:51:35.640 --> 1:51:39.519 You know, and they grew up playing you know. Yeah, 1:51:40.240 --> 1:51:42.640 you just polish him up a little bit, but they 1:51:42.720 --> 1:51:43.320 pretty much. 1:51:43.280 --> 1:51:45.640 What And another question says, you guys are going to 1:51:45.680 --> 1:51:49.320 steal tour right after COVID because y'all have been touring. Okay, 1:51:49.360 --> 1:51:53.519 so can you tell people your routines? Your dance routine 1:51:53.600 --> 1:51:56.840 seemed the exact same. I mean from the freeze that 1:51:56.920 --> 1:51:59.080 you talked about, like everything y'all do your body's move 1:51:59.160 --> 1:52:01.400 the exact same? Is it the exact same? And how 1:52:01.520 --> 1:52:03.840 do y'all maintain that? Tito gave me some quick like 1:52:03.920 --> 1:52:05.519 this is just what we do answer, But I know 1:52:06.120 --> 1:52:07.280 Marlon and Jacket. 1:52:06.960 --> 1:52:10.600 It is you know, you know, once once we you know, 1:52:11.280 --> 1:52:14.240 we can pay all stage for the longest time, and 1:52:14.400 --> 1:52:18.240 once we get together, somehow it just comes together. It 1:52:18.439 --> 1:52:20.960 comes that way because we've been doing it for so long. 1:52:21.040 --> 1:52:24.000 We just know each other's moves. We know, matter of fact, 1:52:24.040 --> 1:52:26.960 we know where Michael would be on stage. You know, 1:52:28.120 --> 1:52:30.240 any given time, we know exactly where he would be 1:52:30.520 --> 1:52:33.040 on that stage, even today if we go in the States, 1:52:33.120 --> 1:52:35.800 you know, and that's how it works. We just it 1:52:35.920 --> 1:52:36.680 just works that way. 1:52:36.800 --> 1:52:39.760 How do you make sure your bodies are still able 1:52:39.840 --> 1:52:42.960 to keep up with these moves on the daily sometimes? 1:52:47.200 --> 1:52:48.840 You know, you know, when you're on stage if you 1:52:49.000 --> 1:52:51.000 try to if you think of a move and try 1:52:51.040 --> 1:52:52.600 to do it, it doesn't work. That when you just 1:52:52.680 --> 1:52:54.639 gotta feel it and you do it and don't think 1:52:54.680 --> 1:52:57.640 about it. That's that's the bottom of the line. You know. 1:52:57.840 --> 1:52:59.839 Y'all brothers, y'all take vitamins and things. 1:52:59.760 --> 1:53:01.240 Or yeah, yeah we did. 1:53:01.320 --> 1:53:03.680 We stay in shape and plus you know, like our 1:53:03.800 --> 1:53:06.000 show is like a high energy show and it's like 1:53:06.120 --> 1:53:07.960 working out. To me, he could work out because I 1:53:08.000 --> 1:53:11.840 get a break, workout, Aspire a lot but only yes, 1:53:11.960 --> 1:53:13.599 Plus you get a check at the end of the day. 1:53:13.680 --> 1:53:15.320 But you know, it's just talk about it. 1:53:19.040 --> 1:53:20.800 It's like it's like going to the gym. 1:53:20.920 --> 1:53:22.720 You know, it's like it's a great workout for we 1:53:22.920 --> 1:53:23.200 love it. 1:53:24.120 --> 1:53:26.559 The main key, the main kids, make sure you get 1:53:26.600 --> 1:53:28.920 your rest. We do not go out and party at clubs. 1:53:29.280 --> 1:53:31.200 We never did day all night. 1:53:31.479 --> 1:53:32.160 We never did. 1:53:32.560 --> 1:53:34.240 We go to bed and get our rest so we 1:53:34.320 --> 1:53:35.760 can be ready to go the next day. 1:53:36.120 --> 1:53:36.320 Yeah. 1:53:36.640 --> 1:53:38.880 I was curious to know too, like y'all's, you know, 1:53:38.920 --> 1:53:41.000 because y'all were raised Jovah's witness, and I was scarious 1:53:41.040 --> 1:53:43.640 to know how your parents at that time, you know, 1:53:43.680 --> 1:53:46.640 when y'all were kids and just throughout your career, how 1:53:46.760 --> 1:53:50.000 much did your faith play in you know, I guess 1:53:50.040 --> 1:53:52.680 developing that discipline that you guys talk about. And how 1:53:52.760 --> 1:53:55.960 did your parents say, Okay, y'all, can you got your career, 1:53:56.080 --> 1:53:59.280 but you also have to I guess worship in whatever way. 1:53:59.320 --> 1:54:02.120 How did y'all start, Well, my mom was different long 1:54:02.160 --> 1:54:05.000 as you had some type of spiritual belief or whatever. 1:54:05.400 --> 1:54:09.559 But they understood that uh dollar bill's got you out 1:54:09.560 --> 1:54:09.880 of Gary. 1:54:10.720 --> 1:54:11.439 Let's talk about it. 1:54:14.120 --> 1:54:17.160 But we say, but what I loved about my mam 1:54:17.280 --> 1:54:19.839 is that she didn't try to force the religion. 1:54:20.560 --> 1:54:20.760 Yeah. 1:54:21.160 --> 1:54:24.479 Uh, you know, Jehovah winners because when I got married, 1:54:24.600 --> 1:54:28.040 you know, I I became a Catholic and a Catholic 1:54:28.600 --> 1:54:32.120 church all the time and got my wife. As long 1:54:32.160 --> 1:54:34.880 as you had some type of belief and and and 1:54:35.000 --> 1:54:37.480 God in your life and tried to do the right thing, 1:54:37.600 --> 1:54:40.520 she was comfortable with that. Now my sister, my sister, 1:54:40.640 --> 1:54:41.600 really she's different. 1:54:42.040 --> 1:54:43.200 She's still She. 1:54:43.280 --> 1:54:44.720 Thought and washed towels that you. 1:54:50.160 --> 1:54:53.840 And Michael. And Michael was baptized too. Michael got baptized. 1:54:53.880 --> 1:54:56.880 He was baptized at one time, and he told me 1:54:56.960 --> 1:55:01.280 the story that he was really serious. A Saturday, you 1:55:01.360 --> 1:55:04.560 know how Joe Woodness knocked on the door and talked 1:55:04.560 --> 1:55:07.040 to West towner. So Michael knocked on this girl's door. 1:55:07.400 --> 1:55:10.040 She opened the door and realized it was him, and 1:55:10.200 --> 1:55:17.640 she started peeing. He said, she started peeing, right, she stop, 1:55:19.160 --> 1:55:19.920 you know what to do? 1:55:20.120 --> 1:55:23.480 He told me, he's trying to teach her about Jehovah 1:55:23.600 --> 1:55:26.960 the God, Jehovah God, right, and she's realizing sim. 1:55:26.800 --> 1:55:27.560 But she just stopped. 1:55:31.280 --> 1:55:33.280 This is a true story, Yeah, true story. 1:55:36.440 --> 1:55:39.160 That is our clip for this episode. 1:55:40.280 --> 1:55:42.440 I can't wait to see it animated. 1:55:47.200 --> 1:55:48.440 Yeah, he's really serious. 1:55:49.880 --> 1:55:52.160 Bill Brave was waiting for him because Bill Brave, you know, 1:55:52.240 --> 1:55:54.480 he would go waiting at times, you know, standing standing 1:55:54.520 --> 1:55:56.120 over the corner and wait for him, you know, and 1:55:57.000 --> 1:55:59.520 and uh, he would go out and people. It was 1:55:59.600 --> 1:56:01.280 kind of hard for him to do that at the time, 1:56:01.320 --> 1:56:03.800 but he did it, you know, and so and so 1:56:03.960 --> 1:56:05.440 some of the things he really wanted to do, he 1:56:05.520 --> 1:56:07.080 had to get out of the faith, you know, he 1:56:07.120 --> 1:56:09.520 had to get out of your witness due to really 1:56:09.600 --> 1:56:11.320 do his thing where he really wanted to go. You 1:56:11.360 --> 1:56:11.880 know what I'm saying. 1:56:12.840 --> 1:56:16.760 Yeah, I'm never going to get that visual up. Oh 1:56:17.000 --> 1:56:21.520 thank you, Jackie. I appreciate that. I can ask questions forever. 1:56:22.360 --> 1:56:23.480 Have you guys have done your questions? 1:56:23.920 --> 1:56:26.960 As I got one family question. I want to know 1:56:27.640 --> 1:56:31.560 throughout your lives and actually now post Roona, how you 1:56:31.680 --> 1:56:35.160 guys maintained speaking to each other. How you guys maintain 1:56:35.240 --> 1:56:38.360 because it's eight it's eight of y'all Jackson family. 1:56:39.840 --> 1:56:42.600 Right, we do this sometimes like we're doing right now. 1:56:42.760 --> 1:56:44.760 And sometimes Tito would come in my house. I'll be 1:56:44.880 --> 1:56:47.240 Tito at a park, you know, we meet you know, 1:56:47.440 --> 1:56:49.280 his wife and my wife we meet with the kids 1:56:49.320 --> 1:56:51.600 and at a park, you know, we do that sometimes. 1:56:51.680 --> 1:56:54.800 And because it's it's really serious out there, you know, 1:56:54.880 --> 1:56:57.400 with this coronavirus, and you gotta be real, real careful, 1:56:57.720 --> 1:57:03.960 especially in California this way. Yes, it's tough. You gotta, 1:57:04.400 --> 1:57:07.160 I mean, you have to mess up, keep your hands clean. 1:57:07.280 --> 1:57:10.320 And that's what we do so far. So far, I'm good. 1:57:10.720 --> 1:57:11.400 How is Rebe? 1:57:13.000 --> 1:57:15.280 Reebe's doing well. She lives with my mom. She stayed 1:57:15.280 --> 1:57:15.760 with my mom. 1:57:16.120 --> 1:57:18.600 Wants my mom, my mam and Rebe together and I 1:57:18.720 --> 1:57:21.800 love it. They're decorating the house right now, doing it 1:57:21.880 --> 1:57:24.440 all over again. And that's what my mom is doing. 1:57:24.520 --> 1:57:27.200 She's so alert. You're talking to my mom. You think 1:57:27.280 --> 1:57:28.440 she's around forty years old? 1:57:28.640 --> 1:57:29.160 Yo, your mom? 1:57:29.200 --> 1:57:30.400 How old is she now, Jackie? 1:57:30.560 --> 1:57:35.919 She'll be ninety one May fourth, ninety Yeah, that's amazing. 1:57:36.360 --> 1:57:41.440 She's ninety now. She'd be ninety one. Yeah, yeah, that's amazing. 1:57:41.760 --> 1:57:42.120 She's doing. 1:57:43.000 --> 1:57:44.400 But that's amazing. 1:57:44.760 --> 1:57:46.840 I'm happy when she wake up every morning, you know, 1:57:48.080 --> 1:57:48.720 happy to see her. 1:57:49.640 --> 1:57:55.160 My last question was I know that you guys often 1:57:55.200 --> 1:57:57.120 talk about like you guys try to get together as 1:57:57.160 --> 1:57:59.720 a family and all that, but with the kids until 1:58:00.280 --> 1:58:06.080 how how hard is it to organize Jackson family reunions. 1:58:07.360 --> 1:58:07.640 Right now? 1:58:07.640 --> 1:58:09.440 Does that still happen? Not right now? 1:58:09.440 --> 1:58:10.600 It's very difficult to do that. 1:58:10.840 --> 1:58:11.200 Right now. 1:58:11.680 --> 1:58:14.120 Right now is very before we do it all the time. 1:58:14.680 --> 1:58:16.880 Like three hundred Jackson Street, the video that was like 1:58:16.920 --> 1:58:17.680 real life. 1:58:18.360 --> 1:58:21.760 Yes, to be the person that cooks that food. 1:58:21.840 --> 1:58:25.000 Okay, they got somebody for. 1:58:26.600 --> 1:58:28.600 No, you know what I met your I met the 1:58:28.920 --> 1:58:32.160 I met your dessert maker, the woman that makes all 1:58:32.200 --> 1:58:34.360 the cakes and I forget her. 1:58:34.400 --> 1:58:36.280 Name he's talking about. 1:58:37.680 --> 1:58:42.280 He's talking about she makes this German chocolate cake that's. 1:58:42.200 --> 1:58:45.040 Out of Come on, you know, Cordia. 1:58:45.360 --> 1:58:46.640 Cordia, Cordia. 1:58:47.680 --> 1:58:51.080 Yeah, Cordia. Not only what she does for Will Smith too. 1:58:51.680 --> 1:58:54.800 No, she does for everybody, Like, uh, she came to 1:58:54.880 --> 1:58:58.960 a Janet show and she snuck I think at the time, 1:58:59.080 --> 1:59:01.240 Jan's like, I'm not to have this, and she snuck 1:59:01.280 --> 1:59:06.160 her like a Kate Cooch real coverd it'stle like back 1:59:06.240 --> 1:59:09.040 Alley Deals sort of thing. And then she introduced herself 1:59:09.080 --> 1:59:10.600 to me and I was like, oh, you've been making 1:59:10.840 --> 1:59:13.400 cakes with the Jackson's how long? And then she med, well, 1:59:13.440 --> 1:59:15.360 now she's official man's. 1:59:15.320 --> 1:59:23.240 She's great, amazing, amazing, But question quest, can I say something? Yeah, 1:59:24.320 --> 1:59:27.680 I'd like to thank you man, You've been so supportive 1:59:27.720 --> 1:59:29.840 in my family. We would go to we would go 1:59:29.920 --> 1:59:34.280 to uh fight Star hotels. Right, we walk into hotels 1:59:34.600 --> 1:59:37.920 and on the coffee table be this big coffee book, right. 1:59:38.480 --> 1:59:41.440 And I open it up. It's you and there you 1:59:41.600 --> 1:59:44.360 in the book. Really a lot of hotels. 1:59:44.400 --> 1:59:47.640 You were inside the book and you're staying there with 1:59:47.800 --> 1:59:51.640 all Jackson Para familiar all all over the place where 1:59:51.680 --> 1:59:52.680 the Jackson's albums. 1:59:52.720 --> 1:59:55.640 And I would see this and that's. 1:59:55.480 --> 1:59:58.680 How I learned that you were you know, I think, yeah, 1:59:59.160 --> 2:00:00.120 I mean, I. 2:00:00.120 --> 2:00:03.360 Said, thank this guy. You know, the biggest the biggest 2:00:03.440 --> 2:00:05.720 picture I saw was in Heartbreak Hotel. 2:00:06.960 --> 2:00:07.600 Not just kidding. 2:00:12.320 --> 2:00:15.960 I see yo for real in London. Everywhere we go, 2:00:16.120 --> 2:00:17.320 we see you in these books. 2:00:17.440 --> 2:00:17.640 Man. 2:00:19.240 --> 2:00:21.320 On the coffee table, there's London hotels. 2:00:21.920 --> 2:00:27.120 Yeah, I must get around everywhere. 2:00:27.240 --> 2:00:27.400 You know. 2:00:28.000 --> 2:00:31.600 You guys, you guys, are you know our first superheroes? 2:00:31.840 --> 2:00:34.560 Yeah, I'm royal to man like literally, y'all. Music has 2:00:34.600 --> 2:00:37.640 been a part of my life. I'm for to Your 2:00:37.800 --> 2:00:39.240 music has been You've been Your music has been a 2:00:39.280 --> 2:00:41.960 part of my life, like my whole life, Like I 2:00:42.120 --> 2:00:45.320 don't ever remember point of my life not knowing a 2:00:45.440 --> 2:00:48.160 Jackson song or hearing the music in my house or 2:00:48.520 --> 2:00:49.720 my mother playing or whatever. 2:00:49.800 --> 2:00:52.680 And no, man, I just give y'all brother's flowers. Love 2:00:52.760 --> 2:01:00.440 y'all flowers flowers right now, give it. 2:01:05.600 --> 2:01:08.520 And I remind people again when we go outside, go 2:01:08.720 --> 2:01:12.640 see the Jackson's live it is just like it was ten, fifteen, 2:01:12.720 --> 2:01:15.280 twenty thirty four. It's a it's all the same, yes, 2:01:15.520 --> 2:01:15.720 just the. 2:01:15.720 --> 2:01:19.600 Same as gentlemen, Thank you very much for this podcast. 2:01:19.840 --> 2:01:23.560 I really appreciate, Tito. Can I ask one final question? 2:01:23.800 --> 2:01:28.160 Mark hell, I forget it came out. 2:01:29.520 --> 2:01:29.640 Now. 2:01:29.920 --> 2:01:33.160 Just you don't often get a chance to ask motown 2:01:33.240 --> 2:01:36.240 legends who their favorite Motown legends are. So I'm just 2:01:36.320 --> 2:01:39.240 wondering who, like, as on a personal level, who your 2:01:39.320 --> 2:01:41.840 favorite Motown artist or band was, if you could just 2:01:41.880 --> 2:01:46.280 pick one, well project besides the J five'll. 2:01:45.680 --> 2:01:49.200 Be Barbie Gay, yeah, Marmon Tito. For me, it's like 2:01:49.320 --> 2:01:55.880 the Temptations. They they're the ones who really we watched 2:01:55.880 --> 2:01:59.720 a lot of Temptations it was and Dinah Ross I 2:01:59.760 --> 2:02:01.560 hate said, I got I got to bring her up. 2:02:01.600 --> 2:02:04.040 I have to and the Pips. 2:02:05.360 --> 2:02:16.640 Yeah, no, no, no, squad. Actually, wait, everybody wait. Steve 2:02:16.680 --> 2:02:18.960 actually brought up something that we normally asked and I 2:02:19.080 --> 2:02:23.680 didn't ask Stevie. Oh, I'm sorry, Okay, I'm sorry, of course, 2:02:23.960 --> 2:02:30.960 cousin Stevie, Marvi gab my thing. I was going to say, uh, well, 2:02:31.040 --> 2:02:34.480 normally Steve asked this question. But when you guys were 2:02:34.600 --> 2:02:37.320 in that in Senio house, what was the record collection? 2:02:37.680 --> 2:02:37.720 Like? 2:02:38.360 --> 2:02:39.960 Oh, and where is it now? 2:02:40.520 --> 2:02:40.560 Like? 2:02:42.200 --> 2:02:46.640 How big was the record collection? And who decided what 2:02:46.760 --> 2:02:47.280 got played? 2:02:47.880 --> 2:02:51.520 We will had our own record collection, I believe. I 2:02:51.560 --> 2:02:54.320 mean I listened. I mean I got a lot of 2:02:54.400 --> 2:02:58.440 Quincy Jones albums. I had Marvin Gaye's Distant Lovers album. 2:02:59.040 --> 2:03:06.480 I had Backstabbers, Hell Mervyn and the Blue Notes. Yes, yes, 2:03:08.840 --> 2:03:13.640 deliver tracks, Science still delivered. We you know, have the 2:03:13.880 --> 2:03:18.600 stuff on cassettes. Y'all forgot about cassettes, you know, so 2:03:19.240 --> 2:03:23.560 we you know, Jackie, Jackie, it's a blessing to see 2:03:23.560 --> 2:03:25.200 these numbers. I know a lot of jumpers don't get 2:03:25.200 --> 2:03:32.160 to see these numbers. But you know, we listened. We 2:03:32.360 --> 2:03:35.360 listened to all kinds of music, I mean country, Western music. Uh, 2:03:36.600 --> 2:03:41.280 did all kinds of it all because great music is 2:03:41.360 --> 2:03:43.840 great music. I don't care what genre is is you 2:03:43.920 --> 2:03:47.560 know great music, it's just great music, you know. 2:03:48.680 --> 2:03:51.400 Amen? Okay, Well, and. 2:03:51.480 --> 2:03:53.880 Having said that, I'm Mana Jackson you on the Quest 2:03:54.000 --> 2:03:54.520 Love Show. 2:03:54.600 --> 2:04:06.000 Babies, We'll be having, We'll be having everyone. This is now. 2:04:06.080 --> 2:04:07.480 We'll see you all on the next go round. This 2:04:07.600 --> 2:04:17.520 question Love Supreme, think yo, what's up? This is Fonte. 2:04:18.000 --> 2:04:20.200 Make sure you keep up with us on Instagram at 2:04:20.320 --> 2:04:22.240 QLs and let us know what you think. You know 2:04:22.240 --> 2:04:24.200 who should be next to sit down with us? Don't 2:04:24.200 --> 2:04:35.720 forget to subscribe to our podcast, all right, please must 2:04:35.760 --> 2:04:41.520 Love Supreme is a production of iHeart Radio. For more 2:04:41.560 --> 2:04:45.560 podcasts from iHeart Radio, visit the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, 2:04:46.000 --> 2:04:47.680 or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.