WEBVTT - Selects: Nuclear Semiotics: How to Talk to Future Humans

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<v Speaker 1>Hey everybody, it's me Josh, and for this week's select,

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<v Speaker 1>I've chosen one of my favorite episodes in honor of

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<v Speaker 1>the birthday of my favorite person, my dear sweet wife, Yumy,

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<v Speaker 1>whose birthday is today. Since this episode is so cool

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<v Speaker 1>and Yumi is too, I figure it was just logical

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<v Speaker 1>and logical stuff really floats my boat. Plus, what better

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<v Speaker 1>way to send off a not too bad year, considering everything,

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<v Speaker 1>especially the last couple of years, than with a real

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<v Speaker 1>head scratcher. Fascinating, interesting episode. I hope you enjoy it.

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<v Speaker 1>Happy birthday to Yumi, and happy New Year to everybody.

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<v Speaker 2>Welcome to Stuff You Should Know, a production of iHeartRadio.

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<v Speaker 1>Hey, and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh Clark. There's

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<v Speaker 1>Charles w Chuck Bryant, there's Jerry over there. And this

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<v Speaker 1>is Stuff you should Know. It's a podcast.

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<v Speaker 2>And you're about to say that the Blank Edition.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, I was, but I couldn't think of anything.

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<v Speaker 2>It was literally the blank Edition, was it? I mean,

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<v Speaker 2>you couldn't think of anything you were playing?

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<v Speaker 1>No, No, that's right, it was the blank Edition. Oh gosh,

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<v Speaker 1>it's a terrible start, Chuck.

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<v Speaker 2>So how about this, just to divert ourselves from that disaster.

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<v Speaker 2>What was not a disaster were our live shows we

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<v Speaker 2>just did. Oh yeah, we finally got up on stage

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<v Speaker 2>everyone since first time since January. Yeah, kick the rust off.

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<v Speaker 2>Sure in Chicago and Toronto.

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<v Speaker 1>And both of them were we just killed.

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<v Speaker 2>They were great. Yeah, every audiences were great.

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<v Speaker 1>Everyone had a really great time. Yeah, they told us so,

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<v Speaker 1>uh huh. They seemed to be legitimately meaning what they

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<v Speaker 1>were saying.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, it was really really great to get back on

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<v Speaker 2>stage with you, my friend.

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<v Speaker 1>And also also also hats off to Chicago for showing up.

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<v Speaker 1>They showed up, Like we called you guys out and

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<v Speaker 1>you responded, yeah, thank you very right, and thank you

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<v Speaker 1>Toronto for not making us call you out.

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<v Speaker 2>But there are still tickets remaining for August twenty ninth

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<v Speaker 2>in Boston, the wilbur and Portland, Maine. You know, we're

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<v Speaker 2>venturing up into the hinterlands of America right years after that,

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<v Speaker 2>But August thirtieth, there are still plenty of great tickets

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<v Speaker 2>left there. And then the same can be said in

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<v Speaker 2>October and Orlando and October tenth. I think I said

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<v Speaker 2>October ninth right in Orlando, October tenth and New Orleans Yep,

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<v Speaker 2>that's right, Brooklyn. I'm not worried about that.

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<v Speaker 1>That's already all sold out, the whole thing, all three nights.

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<v Speaker 2>Man, should we add a fourth?

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<v Speaker 1>Jeez, I don't know.

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<v Speaker 2>We'll talk about it anyway. Thanks to everyone who came out.

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<v Speaker 2>It was a lot of fun. And this is a

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<v Speaker 2>good one. So you don't want you don't want to

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<v Speaker 2>miss it.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, so come on out, especially you Portland Maine. Let's

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<v Speaker 1>get with.

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<v Speaker 2>It all right now. Nuclear Semiotics, which I didn't know

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<v Speaker 2>I loved, but I do.

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<v Speaker 1>Really do you remember ninety nine percent Visible did a

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<v Speaker 1>very famous episode on this very topic.

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<v Speaker 2>Oh, I didn't hear that.

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<v Speaker 1>I specifically avoided going back and listening to it because

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<v Speaker 1>I don't want to be stunk upon by its taint.

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<v Speaker 1>Does that make sense?

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<v Speaker 2>You don't want Roman Mars' taint.

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<v Speaker 1>It's more like, it's just such a classic episode that

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<v Speaker 1>I don't wanted to like leak in. I don't want

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<v Speaker 1>to accidentally rip it off.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah. Well, we certainly can't ninety nine invisible this thing,

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<v Speaker 2>because that is a show that exists at the top

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<v Speaker 2>echelon this industry.

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<v Speaker 1>Sure so so do we Sure we're up there all right?

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<v Speaker 1>But if you like this one, if this stuff like

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<v Speaker 1>floats your bone and you're like, I want to know more,

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<v Speaker 1>go listen to the ninety nine percent Invisible episode.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, this thing really triggered a lot of like synapsis

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<v Speaker 2>firing for me, and I think, like, I think I

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<v Speaker 2>really enjoy this kind of thought experiment, problem solving stuff.

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<v Speaker 1>Oh yeah, I.

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<v Speaker 2>Think I would really dig like that. Part of the

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<v Speaker 2>zombie Apocalypse is figuring the stuff out as a team, right,

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<v Speaker 2>Because the whole time I was reading this, I was saying,

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<v Speaker 2>great idea, terrible idea. They should do this, they shouldn't

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<v Speaker 2>do that.

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<v Speaker 1>Sit down. Yeah, you I like the cut of your gym.

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<v Speaker 2>It was really cool. I dug this. I'd never heard

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<v Speaker 2>of it, so thank you.

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<v Speaker 1>Oh you're very welcome. I actually heard of it before

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<v Speaker 1>Roman Mars made the episode, so I can't really thank him.

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<v Speaker 2>But well, not before he heard of it, because I

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<v Speaker 2>think it's well known that Roman's first words were nuclear semiotics.

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<v Speaker 1>That's true. Yeah, even before Mama, that's right. I could

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<v Speaker 1>totally believe that. Actually. Yeah, So what we're talking about

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<v Speaker 1>is Chuck said a couple of times for those of

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<v Speaker 1>you who don't know, is nuclear semiotics and that is

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<v Speaker 1>a very specialized branch, interdisciplinary branch of I guess science

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<v Speaker 1>that involves all basically any feel of research that you

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<v Speaker 1>can throw at the wall would probably have some function

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<v Speaker 1>to play in the field of nuclear semiotics. And to

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<v Speaker 1>make a long story short, to do the too long,

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<v Speaker 1>didn't read version of this TL semi colon dr is,

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<v Speaker 1>nuclear semiotics seeks to figure out how how to warn

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<v Speaker 1>the future humans to come.

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<v Speaker 2>Or whatever is here. Sure, let's get on a good point.

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<v Speaker 1>I mean why discriminate, right, Yeah, to warn the future

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<v Speaker 1>humans or the future super intelligent jellyfish whatever to come. Hey,

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<v Speaker 1>this is a very dangerous radioactive dump site that we've

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<v Speaker 1>put here. Stay away.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, it's that easy.

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<v Speaker 1>It sounds easy. The problem is is if you presume

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<v Speaker 1>that it's easy, you're making a lot of assumptions that

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<v Speaker 1>aren't necessarily going to hold up.

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<v Speaker 2>Oh yeah, like a lot of times are like they

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<v Speaker 2>should just do. And I would even stop halfway through

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<v Speaker 2>my thought because like, no, that wouldn't work.

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<v Speaker 1>It's true because our languages might be gone by then.

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<v Speaker 1>Our symbols don't necessarily make sense outside of the context

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<v Speaker 1>that we understand them in civilization might be ridiculously advanced

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<v Speaker 1>by them, a civilization might be in a state of

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<v Speaker 1>collapse by then. We have no idea. But the point

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<v Speaker 1>of nuclear semiotics is to figure out how to come

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<v Speaker 1>up with a a message that is understandable to everybody

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<v Speaker 1>in any situation in the future. And the current state

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<v Speaker 1>of the art is, let's figure out how to speak

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<v Speaker 1>as far as ten thousand years into the future.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I mean, and that's like being generous. It needs

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<v Speaker 2>to go beyond that.

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<v Speaker 1>It does, because the whole point of nuclear semiotis the

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<v Speaker 1>whole point of warning the future is this stuff, this

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<v Speaker 1>nuclear waste that we're putting into the ground now, is

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<v Speaker 1>going to be dangerous for tens and tens of thousands

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<v Speaker 1>of years.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah.

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<v Speaker 1>Plutonium two thirty nine has a half life of twenty

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<v Speaker 1>four thousand years. There's something called technetium ninety nine has

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<v Speaker 1>a half life of two hundred and eleven thousand years.

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<v Speaker 1>So another one is like one point seven million year

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<v Speaker 1>half life. This is the nuclear waste that we're creating

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<v Speaker 1>now and are putting in the ground.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah. And Julia Layton, who is one of our writers

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<v Speaker 2>who does great work for us, she made a lot

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<v Speaker 2>of great points, which is like the history of an

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<v Speaker 2>evolution is two hundred thousand years. Yeah, and like we've

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<v Speaker 2>only been like reading and writing for how long.

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<v Speaker 1>About five thousand, less than six thousand years?

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, So it's it sounds like like you said, it

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<v Speaker 2>sounds simple. And so many times I thought I had

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<v Speaker 2>I thought I had it cracked right, only to think

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<v Speaker 2>like I was, like, why don't they just do something

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<v Speaker 2>purely visual and stage a play of people at that

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<v Speaker 2>site digging in and then dying. And it's like, well,

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<v Speaker 2>what do you do with it? Well, I'll just put

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<v Speaker 2>it on a DVD. Sure, that just plays on a loop. Right,

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<v Speaker 2>It's like, well, how are you going to power that thing?

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<v Speaker 1>Right? You know what happens when everybody's converted to blu ray?

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah exactly? Or you know, thought, well, then solar put

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<v Speaker 2>a solar panel up? Is that a last river? But

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<v Speaker 2>what have it done? What if there's like a forever

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<v Speaker 2>nuclear storm or whatever. But if the sun never shines

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<v Speaker 2>again on Earth in eight thousand years, that's could happen.

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<v Speaker 1>That's the cool thing about thinking into the deep future

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<v Speaker 1>is all the things that will go. Yeah. It makes

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<v Speaker 1>you realize like how specific everything you think and know

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<v Speaker 1>and understand really is to your current time.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, it's very cool. She brings up the point about

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<v Speaker 2>an apple, Like when you see the word apple, you

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<v Speaker 2>don't see the word apple, right, You see you visualize

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<v Speaker 2>the symbol of that is an apple.

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<v Speaker 1>Right.

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<v Speaker 2>So it's like it's almost like the words very much.

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<v Speaker 2>The words will just not have meaning anymore at some point, right.

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<v Speaker 1>Man, Well, let's dig into this stuff. You ready, Let's

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<v Speaker 1>do it. So to start, we should talk about where

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<v Speaker 1>this all came from. It came from a new type

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<v Speaker 1>of nuclear storage solution, nuclear waste storage solution called long

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<v Speaker 1>term geological repositories, and it is basically digging into the

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<v Speaker 1>earth a couple of miles into the earth, putting our

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<v Speaker 1>nuclear waste there again, waste that's going to be harmful

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<v Speaker 1>to health for tens of thousands, hundreds of thousands of years,

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<v Speaker 1>and sealing it up and then covering over the site

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<v Speaker 1>and then putting a warning on there. And right now,

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<v Speaker 1>the general consensus is that salt beds are the best

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<v Speaker 1>place to put that nuclear waste. And there's actually some

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<v Speaker 1>pretty good reasons why.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, we could do an episode on nuclear storage. I

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<v Speaker 2>think I really want to in and of itself, yeah,

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<v Speaker 2>I don't know if that's a shorty or a long ea.

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<v Speaker 1>It's probably a longie. Yeah, But just briefly, the reason

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<v Speaker 1>salt beds are preferable is because the fact that they're

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<v Speaker 1>even there suggests that there's no water. They if there

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<v Speaker 1>was water, they would have been dissolved long ago. It's

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<v Speaker 1>really relatively easy to mine into them. And then what's

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<v Speaker 1>awesome about salt is that when you mine a shaft

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<v Speaker 1>into a salt bed and you put your deposit there

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<v Speaker 1>and then you pull back out, the salt bed actually

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<v Speaker 1>heals itself over, like just a few.

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<v Speaker 2>Decades, seals itself back up, right.

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<v Speaker 1>Yes, so you put a container that's been engineered to

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<v Speaker 1>hold the nuclear waste inside for ten thousand years.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, it's also in a container. I should point that

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<v Speaker 2>out right.

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<v Speaker 1>You're putting it into a borehole in the salt. The

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<v Speaker 1>salt is going to grow back around it and intument

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<v Speaker 1>perhaps permanently in this salt.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, very strong too, write.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, it is fairly strong. I mean, like, if you're

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<v Speaker 1>mining using modern mining equipment, it's really easy to mine into.

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<v Speaker 1>But if you just have like a pickaxe or something,

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<v Speaker 1>it's rock too. Salt rock is what it's called. Right,

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<v Speaker 1>So there's a lot of reasons why people have figured

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<v Speaker 1>out like this is not a bad idea to entomb

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<v Speaker 1>nuclear waste. But but here's the thing. We can't just

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<v Speaker 1>entune it and walk away, Like, we have a responsibility

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<v Speaker 1>for those of us generating this waste today to warn

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<v Speaker 1>the future. Sure, and it's on the future. If they

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<v Speaker 1>listen to us or not, that's on them.

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<v Speaker 2>Right, But we have to make them able to listen.

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<v Speaker 1>To us, exactly, like, we have a responsibility to do that.

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<v Speaker 1>Because some people are proposed like, hey, let's just bury

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<v Speaker 1>and forget about it. The chances of somebody actually finding

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<v Speaker 1>it are pretty slim. Just bury and forget about it.

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<v Speaker 1>That's probably the best, the best way to go. And

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<v Speaker 1>people said it's not a bad idea, but it's actually

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<v Speaker 1>a pretty bad idea.

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<v Speaker 2>See, actually I thought that one wasn't the worst idea.

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<v Speaker 2>It's not that was a behavioral psychologist. He was like,

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<v Speaker 2>and he wasn't like, just forget about it. He was like,

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<v Speaker 2>maybe the smartest thing to do is to leave it unmarked.

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<v Speaker 1>Right, because, as we'll see, attracting attention to something like

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<v Speaker 1>exactly attracts attention.

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<v Speaker 2>I know, it's interesting thought experiment, right.

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<v Speaker 1>That was that psychologist, by the way, was doctor Percy Tenenbaum.

0:11:26.240 --> 0:11:28.400
<v Speaker 2>No really, no, no wonder I liked it of.

0:11:28.320 --> 0:11:29.880
<v Speaker 1>The East Hampton ten and baums.

0:11:29.920 --> 0:11:31.800
<v Speaker 2>So we should point out that there's a couple of

0:11:33.040 --> 0:11:35.920
<v Speaker 2>a couple of big times that these that this has

0:11:35.960 --> 0:11:38.160
<v Speaker 2>been commissioned, like, hey, we need to think of something.

0:11:38.960 --> 0:11:41.960
<v Speaker 2>One for a site that never happened, and one for

0:11:42.000 --> 0:11:44.200
<v Speaker 2>a site that has happened. The one that has happened.

0:11:44.320 --> 0:11:46.240
<v Speaker 2>It's only one of the United States right now.

0:11:46.280 --> 0:11:47.840
<v Speaker 1>The only one in the world as far as I know.

0:11:48.160 --> 0:11:51.640
<v Speaker 2>No, it's number three. Oh really, it's the third largest. Okay,

0:11:52.040 --> 0:11:53.240
<v Speaker 2>I didn't see what the other two were.

0:11:53.360 --> 0:11:55.000
<v Speaker 1>It must have been the first in the world.

0:11:55.000 --> 0:11:57.040
<v Speaker 2>Then, yeah, probably the first in the world. Okay, yeah,

0:11:57.040 --> 0:11:59.640
<v Speaker 2>which makes sense because the other two are bigger. But

0:11:59.679 --> 0:12:02.560
<v Speaker 2>this is New Mexico. It's called the WHIP the Waste

0:12:02.559 --> 0:12:08.800
<v Speaker 2>Isolation Pilot Plant, and this one they are they're actively

0:12:08.840 --> 0:12:12.520
<v Speaker 2>guarding for. They've committed the Department of Energy is committed

0:12:12.520 --> 0:12:15.400
<v Speaker 2>to guarding it with people for one hundred years.

0:12:15.520 --> 0:12:19.360
<v Speaker 1>They've hired Barney Fife into one hundred year contract to

0:12:19.440 --> 0:12:20.000
<v Speaker 1>look over.

0:12:19.880 --> 0:12:22.160
<v Speaker 2>This nuclear way for at least one hundred years. It's

0:12:22.160 --> 0:12:23.480
<v Speaker 2>not like at the end of the hundred years are

0:12:23.520 --> 0:12:25.760
<v Speaker 2>going to just like put a padlock on it and

0:12:25.840 --> 0:12:28.880
<v Speaker 2>walk away. I imagine they will keep guarding it as

0:12:28.880 --> 0:12:30.160
<v Speaker 2>long as they feel like it needs guarding.

0:12:31.679 --> 0:12:33.680
<v Speaker 1>I don't know if that's the thing. I don't know, man.

0:12:33.880 --> 0:12:36.040
<v Speaker 1>I mean, we're talking about a government run program here.

0:12:36.160 --> 0:12:38.720
<v Speaker 2>Well, at least one hundred years, we can at least say.

0:12:38.600 --> 0:12:39.959
<v Speaker 1>That, yes, they agreed to that.

0:12:40.400 --> 0:12:46.280
<v Speaker 2>So you know, the whole idea arose before that though.

0:12:46.880 --> 0:12:49.280
<v Speaker 2>What was the other one in Nevada?

0:12:49.480 --> 0:12:50.880
<v Speaker 1>That's the Yucca Mountain one.

0:12:50.920 --> 0:12:52.559
<v Speaker 2>That was the first one, right, that's the first one

0:12:52.600 --> 0:12:56.040
<v Speaker 2>that never happened, right, But that's when, you know, in

0:12:56.080 --> 0:12:58.760
<v Speaker 2>the seventies is when this idea sort of came about.

0:12:58.960 --> 0:13:00.679
<v Speaker 2>And I think it was a nineteen eight when it

0:13:00.720 --> 0:13:05.679
<v Speaker 2>was sort of codified as an official I guess science or.

0:13:06.720 --> 0:13:09.920
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, it is a brand. It's an interdisciplinary branch of science,

0:13:09.960 --> 0:13:15.040
<v Speaker 1>nuclear semiotics is. And it's because the EPA came up

0:13:15.080 --> 0:13:16.840
<v Speaker 1>with a rule in nineteen eighty two, a law.

0:13:16.960 --> 0:13:19.360
<v Speaker 2>Really that's eighty one. I got that wrong, by the way, So.

0:13:19.320 --> 0:13:20.960
<v Speaker 1>It's eighty one that they came up with the law.

0:13:21.640 --> 0:13:24.680
<v Speaker 2>Well, it became a discipline in nineteen eighty one with

0:13:25.000 --> 0:13:27.000
<v Speaker 2>that Yuck Mountain Repository project.

0:13:27.120 --> 0:13:30.160
<v Speaker 1>And I think from that yucka Mountain Repository project, because

0:13:30.200 --> 0:13:32.439
<v Speaker 1>we were starting to figure out how to deposit this

0:13:32.480 --> 0:13:35.480
<v Speaker 1>stuff for a long time, the EPA came up with

0:13:35.520 --> 0:13:37.800
<v Speaker 1>a rule I think it was nineteen eighty two that said,

0:13:37.960 --> 0:13:40.600
<v Speaker 1>if you're going to create these kind of repositories for

0:13:40.720 --> 0:13:43.280
<v Speaker 1>nuclear waste, you also have to figure out how to

0:13:43.640 --> 0:13:47.360
<v Speaker 1>come up with a permanent warning sign. And everybody was like,

0:13:47.400 --> 0:13:49.400
<v Speaker 1>that's no problem, of course, and then the EPs to

0:13:49.520 --> 0:13:51.440
<v Speaker 1>think about it. It's harder than you think.

0:13:51.559 --> 0:13:56.680
<v Speaker 2>They said, just slap that nuclear waste logo that everyone knows, sure,

0:13:56.960 --> 0:13:59.120
<v Speaker 2>and everyone was like, everyone doesn't know that.

0:13:59.280 --> 0:14:00.480
<v Speaker 1>Well, it's been around forever.

0:14:00.559 --> 0:14:05.079
<v Speaker 2>Everyone doesn't know that now, much less in two hundred

0:14:05.120 --> 0:14:05.720
<v Speaker 2>thousand years.

0:14:05.760 --> 0:14:07.840
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, did you see how that was created?

0:14:08.320 --> 0:14:11.440
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, it was. It was a group doodle. I don't

0:14:11.480 --> 0:14:13.480
<v Speaker 2>know how that happens. I think that means they can't

0:14:13.520 --> 0:14:14.760
<v Speaker 2>ascribe it to one person.

0:14:14.960 --> 0:14:16.680
<v Speaker 1>They know there was like five people in one of

0:14:16.679 --> 0:14:20.360
<v Speaker 1>those giant like silver spoons, pencils or kral cranon.

0:14:20.560 --> 0:14:24.840
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, this is a nineteen forty six, was it at Berkeley? Yeah,

0:14:24.880 --> 0:14:27.000
<v Speaker 2>and it was a group doodle in this science class.

0:14:27.760 --> 0:14:30.480
<v Speaker 1>And is that a is that an album or a

0:14:30.520 --> 0:14:31.000
<v Speaker 1>band name?

0:14:31.240 --> 0:14:31.840
<v Speaker 2>Group doodle?

0:14:31.960 --> 0:14:33.680
<v Speaker 1>It's like the Wiggles or something.

0:14:33.920 --> 0:14:35.440
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I think it's an album title for.

0:14:35.400 --> 0:14:38.280
<v Speaker 1>Sure, So the Wiggles group doodle absolutely.

0:14:38.320 --> 0:14:39.800
<v Speaker 2>Okay, get that's probably a real thing.

0:14:40.280 --> 0:14:41.680
<v Speaker 1>That's our gift to you, Wiggles.

0:14:41.880 --> 0:14:44.000
<v Speaker 2>But I saw this was interesting. In nineteen forty eight,

0:14:44.080 --> 0:14:47.400
<v Speaker 2>the symbol came under consideration for wider use because at

0:14:47.440 --> 0:14:50.680
<v Speaker 2>first it was just a group doodle and then the

0:14:50.720 --> 0:14:56.120
<v Speaker 2>Brookhaven National Laboratory requested a standardized symbol of standardized colors

0:14:56.680 --> 0:15:00.400
<v Speaker 2>for their radiation safety program, and there was more argument

0:15:00.400 --> 0:15:04.920
<v Speaker 2>about the colors then the actual symbol because at first

0:15:04.960 --> 0:15:06.400
<v Speaker 2>they are like, you can't use yellow because we use

0:15:06.480 --> 0:15:07.440
<v Speaker 2>yellow for a lot of stuff.

0:15:07.520 --> 0:15:10.720
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, they wanted to make sure that it didn't get overused.

0:15:10.800 --> 0:15:12.600
<v Speaker 1>So people had just become kind of blind to it

0:15:12.600 --> 0:15:13.600
<v Speaker 1>because they saw it so much.

0:15:13.600 --> 0:15:16.320
<v Speaker 2>And they were like, have you heard a striper exactly?

0:15:16.320 --> 0:15:17.600
<v Speaker 2>They can't use yellow and black.

0:15:17.680 --> 0:15:19.000
<v Speaker 1>They were like, no, I haven't heard them, and they like,

0:15:19.000 --> 0:15:21.120
<v Speaker 1>give us forty years, you'll have heard of them, believe me.

0:15:21.440 --> 0:15:23.040
<v Speaker 2>And then in forty two years, no one will have

0:15:23.080 --> 0:15:28.920
<v Speaker 2>heard of them. So I think the original design was

0:15:28.920 --> 0:15:31.040
<v Speaker 2>was I saw them in concert. We weren't even talk.

0:15:31.080 --> 0:15:32.880
<v Speaker 1>Oh, I believe it.

0:15:32.880 --> 0:15:35.880
<v Speaker 2>It was magenta blades on a blue background was the

0:15:35.920 --> 0:15:39.280
<v Speaker 2>original design, and it was chosen because it was uncommon.

0:15:39.360 --> 0:15:43.600
<v Speaker 2>But then in Oakridge, Tennessee, at the Oakridge National Laboratory,

0:15:43.400 --> 0:15:46.280
<v Speaker 2>they went with the yellow background in nineteen forty eight.

0:15:46.400 --> 0:15:48.680
<v Speaker 2>Later on in nineteen forty eight, and I guess it stuck.

0:15:48.840 --> 0:15:51.720
<v Speaker 1>That's where the Oakridge boys were all scientists. That's right,

0:15:52.520 --> 0:15:56.280
<v Speaker 1>So it was originally magenta on blue. Right, Yes, And

0:15:56.360 --> 0:15:58.280
<v Speaker 1>the logo we're talking about, for those of you I know,

0:15:58.320 --> 0:16:02.360
<v Speaker 1>it's called the nuclear trefoil. It's a circle and then

0:16:02.720 --> 0:16:06.440
<v Speaker 1>three partial circles around a blade. And from what I saw,

0:16:06.480 --> 0:16:10.480
<v Speaker 1>one of the original group doodlers explained it as it's

0:16:10.520 --> 0:16:13.360
<v Speaker 1>supposed to be an atom with activity around it.

0:16:13.520 --> 0:16:15.080
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, that's it.

0:16:14.840 --> 0:16:16.920
<v Speaker 1>Which I never saw it before, but now that I've

0:16:16.960 --> 0:16:19.680
<v Speaker 1>read that, I can't unsee it. And that is really

0:16:19.680 --> 0:16:21.600
<v Speaker 1>what it looks like. It's a pretty great little doodle.

0:16:21.840 --> 0:16:24.800
<v Speaker 1>But it's like you said, that is not a universally

0:16:24.840 --> 0:16:28.800
<v Speaker 1>accepted symbol, which is a big problem. And it doesn't.

0:16:29.080 --> 0:16:31.800
<v Speaker 1>It doesn't evoke like, oh, an atom, of course, I

0:16:31.840 --> 0:16:33.720
<v Speaker 1>know what an atom looks like. I just saw one

0:16:33.800 --> 0:16:35.760
<v Speaker 1>go down the street a second ago, and this looks

0:16:35.760 --> 0:16:39.240
<v Speaker 1>like an atom. It's a symbolic representation of an atom,

0:16:39.440 --> 0:16:42.960
<v Speaker 1>which means that after people stop thinking about what atoms

0:16:42.960 --> 0:16:46.280
<v Speaker 1>look like, maybe a thousand years or five thousand years

0:16:46.280 --> 0:16:48.800
<v Speaker 1>down the road, if something happens, no one's going to

0:16:48.800 --> 0:16:51.040
<v Speaker 1>look at that and be like, oh, it's an atom.

0:16:51.120 --> 0:16:54.080
<v Speaker 1>Activity around an atom, that must mean there's radiation here.

0:16:54.240 --> 0:16:56.960
<v Speaker 1>Hence this is a danger sign that's not going to happen.

0:16:57.280 --> 0:16:57.400
<v Speaker 3>Right.

0:16:58.000 --> 0:17:00.200
<v Speaker 2>The other thing you would think is just just put

0:17:00.280 --> 0:17:03.560
<v Speaker 2>up in a bunch of languages. Done. Yeah, here's the thing.

0:17:04.040 --> 0:17:07.399
<v Speaker 2>Languages are disappearing. I'm going to ask you, actually, what

0:17:07.480 --> 0:17:12.160
<v Speaker 2>is your best guess? A language dies out every blank.

0:17:14.560 --> 0:17:20.119
<v Speaker 1>Nine million seconds? Is that right? Did I nail it?

0:17:20.480 --> 0:17:24.280
<v Speaker 2>Jerk? I got to get out of calculator. A language

0:17:24.320 --> 0:17:25.760
<v Speaker 2>dies out every fourteen days.

0:17:26.080 --> 0:17:27.320
<v Speaker 1>I'm pretty sure there's nine million.

0:17:27.480 --> 0:17:29.520
<v Speaker 2>Isn't that staggering? God? What if it was? Are you

0:17:29.560 --> 0:17:30.520
<v Speaker 2>about to do that? Yeah?

0:17:30.560 --> 0:17:31.320
<v Speaker 1>You keep talking.

0:17:31.600 --> 0:17:34.040
<v Speaker 2>So that's about twenty five languages per year that die

0:17:34.040 --> 0:17:34.640
<v Speaker 2>out and.

0:17:35.200 --> 0:17:36.639
<v Speaker 1>That's really sad.

0:17:36.960 --> 0:17:39.000
<v Speaker 2>It is, and it is very sad. And granted these

0:17:39.000 --> 0:17:42.159
<v Speaker 2>aren't you know, major languages, but they're important to the

0:17:42.200 --> 0:17:45.359
<v Speaker 2>people who speak them. Sure, but that's just sort of

0:17:45.400 --> 0:17:50.479
<v Speaker 2>to to get across the point that throwing it up

0:17:50.520 --> 0:17:53.760
<v Speaker 2>in a bunch of languages, there's no guarantee. And in fact,

0:17:53.760 --> 0:17:58.320
<v Speaker 2>in all likelihood, in fifty thousand years, there won't be

0:17:58.440 --> 0:18:01.720
<v Speaker 2>English or German or French. There may not even be humans.

0:18:02.720 --> 0:18:06.159
<v Speaker 2>That's a really point. We may be what's the calculation.

0:18:05.920 --> 0:18:07.800
<v Speaker 1>Four hundred and forty six days. I was a little lot.

0:18:07.840 --> 0:18:11.159
<v Speaker 1>Okay there there, There may be. We may all be

0:18:11.280 --> 0:18:14.960
<v Speaker 1>like post biological humans, you know, uploaded our consciousness onto

0:18:15.200 --> 0:18:17.760
<v Speaker 1>like the Internet or something. And which point that really

0:18:17.800 --> 0:18:19.800
<v Speaker 1>won't matter to tell you the truth. Where the nuclear

0:18:19.840 --> 0:18:22.040
<v Speaker 1>waste is buried? But who knows? It could be an

0:18:22.080 --> 0:18:24.600
<v Speaker 1>intelligent species, It could be humans who don't know how

0:18:24.600 --> 0:18:27.439
<v Speaker 1>to read or write. The fact is is the stuff

0:18:27.440 --> 0:18:30.960
<v Speaker 1>that we take for granted changes a lot faster than

0:18:31.000 --> 0:18:34.520
<v Speaker 1>you think, and even if it doesn't necessarily die out,

0:18:34.840 --> 0:18:38.200
<v Speaker 1>the changes that come along are pretty alarming. I found

0:18:38.200 --> 0:18:41.440
<v Speaker 1>a I've been watching a lot of Silicon Valley lately.

0:18:41.480 --> 0:18:42.760
<v Speaker 2>I told you yeah, great show.

0:18:43.560 --> 0:18:49.520
<v Speaker 1>My vocal delivery sounds a lot like Jared's. It's a

0:18:49.600 --> 0:18:52.080
<v Speaker 1>curly you think a lot.

0:18:53.680 --> 0:18:55.240
<v Speaker 2>I never really put those two together.

0:18:55.280 --> 0:18:57.120
<v Speaker 1>We'll keep an ear out for it now, and see

0:18:57.160 --> 0:19:00.400
<v Speaker 1>what you think. I mean. Tell me I'm wrong.

0:19:00.440 --> 0:19:03.160
<v Speaker 2>I mean, I would have to dissociate so much because

0:19:03.160 --> 0:19:06.880
<v Speaker 2>I like you and Jared is like such a pedantic bureaucrat.

0:19:06.920 --> 0:19:07.879
<v Speaker 1>Oh, I love him.

0:19:08.119 --> 0:19:10.840
<v Speaker 2>I mean he's fun, yeah to watch, But I wouldn't

0:19:10.840 --> 0:19:14.040
<v Speaker 2>say that he's like the most likable character. Maybe he is,

0:19:14.080 --> 0:19:14.479
<v Speaker 2>I don't know.

0:19:14.560 --> 0:19:18.600
<v Speaker 1>I would say pedantic bureaucrat is not entirely off for me.

0:19:19.200 --> 0:19:21.160
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, Jared needs a girlfriend, that's his deal.

0:19:21.160 --> 0:19:24.480
<v Speaker 1>Okay, so I do not because I have a fine wife,

0:19:24.520 --> 0:19:26.800
<v Speaker 1>That's right. So let me give you an example of

0:19:26.800 --> 0:19:29.480
<v Speaker 1>how English has changed. This is a quote from Sir

0:19:29.520 --> 0:19:31.920
<v Speaker 1>Gawain and the Green Knight. It was written in thirteen

0:19:32.000 --> 0:19:35.360
<v Speaker 1>seventy five, Oh boy, six hundred and fifty years ago.

0:19:35.480 --> 0:19:39.159
<v Speaker 1>All right, this is in English. The steel of a

0:19:39.240 --> 0:19:42.840
<v Speaker 1>stiff staff, the stern hit be gripped, that was wound

0:19:42.880 --> 0:19:45.800
<v Speaker 1>in with iron into the wand's end. And I'll be

0:19:45.880 --> 0:19:49.640
<v Speaker 1>graving with green and gravious works. And you should see

0:19:49.640 --> 0:19:50.160
<v Speaker 1>it spelled.

0:19:50.280 --> 0:19:52.000
<v Speaker 2>Oh yeah, I mean I was an English major. We

0:19:52.040 --> 0:19:53.639
<v Speaker 2>had to go through this stuff. It was a slog.

0:19:53.760 --> 0:19:55.320
<v Speaker 1>Do you have a guess at what I just said?

0:19:55.800 --> 0:19:58.760
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, you said that. He uh, the green Knight sat

0:19:58.760 --> 0:19:59.960
<v Speaker 2>down and watched some silicon valley.

0:20:00.040 --> 0:20:03.840
<v Speaker 1>That's right. It's that the grim Man gripped it by

0:20:03.880 --> 0:20:06.919
<v Speaker 1>its strong handle, which was wound with iron all the

0:20:06.920 --> 0:20:09.640
<v Speaker 1>way to the end, and graven and green with graceful designs.

0:20:09.920 --> 0:20:12.840
<v Speaker 1>So like, that's English six hundred and fifty years ago.

0:20:12.920 --> 0:20:14.119
<v Speaker 1>English is still around.

0:20:13.880 --> 0:20:17.240
<v Speaker 2>Six hundred and fifty years. We're talking about thousands, tens

0:20:17.240 --> 0:20:18.680
<v Speaker 2>of thousands of years exactly.

0:20:18.720 --> 0:20:22.280
<v Speaker 1>So that's a problem. Languages evolve, languages die, Symbols don't

0:20:22.320 --> 0:20:24.880
<v Speaker 1>quite make sense out of context. So there's a lot

0:20:24.920 --> 0:20:29.040
<v Speaker 1>of challenges that face the people to try to explain

0:20:29.119 --> 0:20:32.480
<v Speaker 1>this stuff, or figure out how to explain it to

0:20:32.720 --> 0:20:34.719
<v Speaker 1>future people, I think is a better way to put it.

0:20:35.000 --> 0:20:39.400
<v Speaker 2>That's right. They have looked in semio semiotitians for people

0:20:39.440 --> 0:20:43.120
<v Speaker 2>who really want on this stuff. Sure, I think I'm

0:20:43.119 --> 0:20:45.080
<v Speaker 2>an amateur semiutitian after reading this.

0:20:45.320 --> 0:20:45.879
<v Speaker 1>That's great.

0:20:45.920 --> 0:20:47.840
<v Speaker 2>But one thing that they're looking for, because what you

0:20:47.880 --> 0:20:51.640
<v Speaker 2>want is ideally is instant recognition and not something I mean,

0:20:51.920 --> 0:20:54.199
<v Speaker 2>yeah maybe if you have to figure it out. But

0:20:54.280 --> 0:20:57.199
<v Speaker 2>what you want is something that conveys danger right when

0:20:57.240 --> 0:20:57.680
<v Speaker 2>you look at.

0:20:57.640 --> 0:21:00.159
<v Speaker 1>It, Like just steer clear of this right place, not

0:21:00.280 --> 0:21:04.080
<v Speaker 1>come closer and start poking around. Just go away, That's right.

0:21:04.280 --> 0:21:07.720
<v Speaker 2>So she makes a great point though, that, like it's

0:21:07.760 --> 0:21:09.720
<v Speaker 2>a double edged sword, like you were talking about earlier.

0:21:09.760 --> 0:21:12.960
<v Speaker 2>If you, you know, human beings, if you show an

0:21:13.000 --> 0:21:15.640
<v Speaker 2>extreme skier or a sign this is danger, don't ski

0:21:15.720 --> 0:21:18.719
<v Speaker 2>this way. Sure, he's gonna say, bra let's do it.

0:21:18.880 --> 0:21:21.960
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, you know, give me some homicide power drink.

0:21:22.160 --> 0:21:26.320
<v Speaker 2>So there's a very very fine line between warning people

0:21:26.400 --> 0:21:27.439
<v Speaker 2>and enticing people.

0:21:28.080 --> 0:21:32.000
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, even inadvertently exactly, you know. I mean, there's she

0:21:32.000 --> 0:21:33.920
<v Speaker 1>she points out haunted houses because I'm like, yeah, not

0:21:33.960 --> 0:21:37.480
<v Speaker 1>everybody's like a red bull extreme sports person, but people

0:21:37.520 --> 0:21:40.600
<v Speaker 1>do like it haunted houses too, So that abandoned like

0:21:40.640 --> 0:21:43.120
<v Speaker 1>scary place is so creepy. Let's go there for Halloween,

0:21:43.320 --> 0:21:46.359
<v Speaker 1>right because maybe Halloween survived but the English language didn't.

0:21:46.400 --> 0:21:49.840
<v Speaker 1>Who knows. So yeah, you you you really walk a

0:21:49.880 --> 0:21:53.159
<v Speaker 1>fine line here between warning people away and saying I

0:21:53.400 --> 0:21:53.960
<v Speaker 1>dare you?

0:21:54.680 --> 0:22:00.320
<v Speaker 2>Right? Yeah, my whole jam is I think they need to, Uh,

0:22:00.400 --> 0:22:03.520
<v Speaker 2>what will survive if there are humans at all is emotion,

0:22:04.520 --> 0:22:06.679
<v Speaker 2>So I think they need to appeal to human emotions

0:22:06.720 --> 0:22:11.280
<v Speaker 2>like fear, more than words and symbols.

0:22:11.359 --> 0:22:13.320
<v Speaker 1>Okay, well, let's take a break and we'll get back

0:22:13.320 --> 0:22:14.879
<v Speaker 1>into this, all right, because this is fun.

0:22:15.080 --> 0:22:32.400
<v Speaker 4>Yes, any stuffy jaws.

0:22:41.560 --> 0:22:43.480
<v Speaker 1>All right, chuck. So we've kind of talked about how

0:22:44.040 --> 0:22:47.600
<v Speaker 1>things go away, Languages fall away, symbols don't make sense.

0:22:47.440 --> 0:22:49.040
<v Speaker 2>Any any ephemera.

0:22:49.520 --> 0:22:55.119
<v Speaker 1>It is, it really is, right, So what what will last?

0:22:55.160 --> 0:22:58.320
<v Speaker 1>What have nuclear semiutitions come up with? And should we

0:22:58.320 --> 0:23:00.280
<v Speaker 1>explain with semiotics? Is in general.

0:23:01.520 --> 0:23:01.960
<v Speaker 2>What is it?

0:23:01.960 --> 0:23:05.040
<v Speaker 1>I don't even know, oh, just kind of in shorthand.

0:23:05.080 --> 0:23:10.440
<v Speaker 1>Semiotics is basically the study of how and why signs

0:23:10.480 --> 0:23:13.440
<v Speaker 1>have meaning. Okay, right, Like you were saying earlier, how

0:23:13.680 --> 0:23:17.119
<v Speaker 1>the word apple doesn't evoke thoughts of the word apple.

0:23:17.200 --> 0:23:20.639
<v Speaker 1>It evokes thoughts of the round, shiny, tasty fruit that

0:23:20.680 --> 0:23:25.119
<v Speaker 1>grows on a tree. That's a sign. In semiotics, that's

0:23:25.119 --> 0:23:28.240
<v Speaker 1>specifically a cursive sign because it uses language.

0:23:28.520 --> 0:23:33.760
<v Speaker 2>So what they've done in many cases is, and this

0:23:33.800 --> 0:23:35.720
<v Speaker 2>is a great idea for stuff like this is to

0:23:36.080 --> 0:23:40.240
<v Speaker 2>have a competition. They had one at UCLA, I think

0:23:40.280 --> 0:23:42.200
<v Speaker 2>in two thousand and one called it called the Desert

0:23:42.240 --> 0:23:49.040
<v Speaker 2>Space Competition. And what one that year was a cactus,

0:23:49.160 --> 0:23:54.320
<v Speaker 2>a yucca cacti glowing blue. And then the idea was

0:23:54.480 --> 0:23:58.960
<v Speaker 2>plant a field of these regular green cacti, and then

0:23:59.280 --> 0:24:02.960
<v Speaker 2>over the place where you know the waist is the repository,

0:24:03.000 --> 0:24:04.760
<v Speaker 2>and then if you see the sign of a glowing

0:24:04.800 --> 0:24:08.440
<v Speaker 2>blue one, I mean, I don't think I didn't see

0:24:08.440 --> 0:24:09.800
<v Speaker 2>the rest of them, but I didn't think this one

0:24:09.840 --> 0:24:10.879
<v Speaker 2>was that great.

0:24:11.680 --> 0:24:13.520
<v Speaker 1>I'm sorry to the person who came up with it.

0:24:13.480 --> 0:24:15.800
<v Speaker 2>Though I know. I think a bit of something they

0:24:15.800 --> 0:24:18.879
<v Speaker 2>should do is go even further back to younger children,

0:24:19.320 --> 0:24:21.680
<v Speaker 2>because sometime like go to like an elementary school and

0:24:21.720 --> 0:24:23.280
<v Speaker 2>ask kids or a high school.

0:24:23.560 --> 0:24:26.160
<v Speaker 1>Right, or you just take each kid out and rub

0:24:26.200 --> 0:24:27.760
<v Speaker 1>their face in the sand and be like you see this,

0:24:27.880 --> 0:24:28.760
<v Speaker 1>you stay out of here.

0:24:29.200 --> 0:24:32.000
<v Speaker 2>No, I mean, have the kids like throw out ideas

0:24:32.040 --> 0:24:34.080
<v Speaker 2>because I think, oh, oh, I see yeah, I think

0:24:34.119 --> 0:24:38.440
<v Speaker 2>the I think a lot of times children can cut

0:24:38.480 --> 0:24:41.439
<v Speaker 2>through the to the simplicity of something much better than

0:24:41.480 --> 0:24:44.680
<v Speaker 2>adults can easily. So that's my idea. Throw it out

0:24:44.680 --> 0:24:46.479
<v Speaker 2>as a as a science fair project.

0:24:46.560 --> 0:24:48.160
<v Speaker 1>Well, I think that's one of the cool things about

0:24:48.240 --> 0:24:52.560
<v Speaker 1>nuclear semionics is it's so inviting to like anybody can

0:24:52.600 --> 0:24:55.960
<v Speaker 1>come up with a great idea. It's just so confounding,

0:24:56.000 --> 0:24:57.480
<v Speaker 1>but it's also so accessible.

0:24:57.600 --> 0:25:00.199
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, we'll get ideas. In fact, we want to hear

0:25:00.200 --> 0:25:02.160
<v Speaker 2>from you. If you think you have a cool idea,

0:25:02.200 --> 0:25:04.320
<v Speaker 2>it's a good idea, Like, I guarantee you we're going

0:25:04.359 --> 0:25:06.119
<v Speaker 2>to get some good ones. Yep, We're not going to

0:25:06.119 --> 0:25:07.080
<v Speaker 2>pass them along or anything.

0:25:07.400 --> 0:25:10.880
<v Speaker 1>So rather than just like poo pooing the glowing yuka one,

0:25:11.320 --> 0:25:14.560
<v Speaker 1>there's a here's the problem with the glowing yucca idea.

0:25:15.119 --> 0:25:20.720
<v Speaker 1>It requires explanation, right, somebody. So part of the glowing

0:25:20.800 --> 0:25:23.960
<v Speaker 1>yuka is to say, these things have been genetically engineered

0:25:23.960 --> 0:25:27.119
<v Speaker 1>so that when there's radiation present, they glow. So if

0:25:27.160 --> 0:25:29.960
<v Speaker 1>you see this yucka glowing, it means that there's radiation here,

0:25:30.040 --> 0:25:34.520
<v Speaker 1>stay away, right. If you lose that that additional story

0:25:34.560 --> 0:25:36.960
<v Speaker 1>that has to go along with the glowing yuka, then

0:25:37.000 --> 0:25:39.480
<v Speaker 1>you just have glowing yucca. And I can't think of

0:25:39.520 --> 0:25:41.679
<v Speaker 1>a more attractive thing that's going to draw people to

0:25:41.760 --> 0:25:45.480
<v Speaker 1>a site than the legendary glowing yucca that only glows

0:25:45.520 --> 0:25:48.399
<v Speaker 1>in this one. Soster On earth. Yeah, that's kind of

0:25:48.440 --> 0:25:49.560
<v Speaker 1>the problem with it. You know.

0:25:49.680 --> 0:25:52.159
<v Speaker 2>I like this other idea from that same year a

0:25:52.160 --> 0:25:56.359
<v Speaker 2>little better that did not win. Fields of Asphodel, which

0:25:56.440 --> 0:25:59.879
<v Speaker 2>is a Eurasian lily. They said, let's just cover the

0:26:00.280 --> 0:26:03.560
<v Speaker 2>with metal blades that screech when the wind blows. It

0:26:03.600 --> 0:26:05.840
<v Speaker 2>makes it horrible noise, right, not bad.

0:26:06.200 --> 0:26:09.840
<v Speaker 1>Here's the problem with that. Okay, Moving parts Okay, sure,

0:26:09.920 --> 0:26:12.359
<v Speaker 1>it's been pretty well established that if you're trying to

0:26:12.640 --> 0:26:16.520
<v Speaker 1>convey something to the people into the distant future, you

0:26:16.680 --> 0:26:20.080
<v Speaker 1>need to have something that's monolithic and made of one piece,

0:26:20.520 --> 0:26:24.080
<v Speaker 1>because if you have multiple parts, that's an opportunity for

0:26:24.160 --> 0:26:27.400
<v Speaker 1>weathering to occur through the place where the two parts meet,

0:26:27.480 --> 0:26:29.560
<v Speaker 1>or three parts or five parts. And if it's a

0:26:29.600 --> 0:26:32.360
<v Speaker 1>moving part, just kiss the movement goodbye.

0:26:32.680 --> 0:26:36.040
<v Speaker 2>What about this? Okay, I've had the thought earlier today

0:26:36.119 --> 0:26:39.119
<v Speaker 2>about just a mountain of razor wire.

0:26:39.560 --> 0:26:41.280
<v Speaker 1>Okay, here's the problem with that.

0:26:41.359 --> 0:26:41.679
<v Speaker 2>Okay.

0:26:42.440 --> 0:26:44.679
<v Speaker 1>And this is the same problem also with the what

0:26:44.760 --> 0:26:47.040
<v Speaker 1>is the problem the steel? The steel stuff that move

0:26:47.080 --> 0:26:49.240
<v Speaker 1>and everything this do you want to use you? I don't,

0:26:49.480 --> 0:26:53.680
<v Speaker 1>But you want to use stuff that has no value whatsoever,

0:26:53.920 --> 0:26:56.399
<v Speaker 1>not just financially, but usefulness.

0:26:55.800 --> 0:26:58.320
<v Speaker 2>Well, because someone will say I can harvest that razor wire.

0:26:58.400 --> 0:27:00.520
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, I can go use that to keep the cows

0:27:00.600 --> 0:27:01.880
<v Speaker 1>in in my house next door.

0:27:02.119 --> 0:27:03.919
<v Speaker 2>Yeah. But if you have so much of it.

0:27:04.359 --> 0:27:07.840
<v Speaker 1>Over time, over ten thousand years, people like take and make.

0:27:08.800 --> 0:27:11.040
<v Speaker 1>I mean, that's why the pyramids are stripped of, like

0:27:11.080 --> 0:27:13.840
<v Speaker 1>they're more attractive outer. They used to have like a

0:27:13.920 --> 0:27:19.080
<v Speaker 1>white I think limestone shell encasement. It's gone because the

0:27:19.160 --> 0:27:20.840
<v Speaker 1>locals were like, oh, I can use that to build

0:27:20.840 --> 0:27:25.000
<v Speaker 1>a fine lot pizza hut. That's exactly that's what people

0:27:25.320 --> 0:27:27.639
<v Speaker 1>will do if you place something of any kind of

0:27:27.720 --> 0:27:30.520
<v Speaker 1>usefulness of that true like that is the beauty in

0:27:30.600 --> 0:27:33.560
<v Speaker 1>that every idea is wrong.

0:27:33.359 --> 0:27:36.520
<v Speaker 2>As a whole. It's so great, it's pretty great.

0:27:36.560 --> 0:27:37.160
<v Speaker 1>I love it.

0:27:37.480 --> 0:27:41.040
<v Speaker 2>So. One of the most often sided bodies of work

0:27:41.119 --> 0:27:43.679
<v Speaker 2>is from nineteen eighty two eighty three, and this was

0:27:43.720 --> 0:27:47.200
<v Speaker 2>a call for ideas from the German Journal of Semiotics

0:27:47.680 --> 0:27:49.720
<v Speaker 2>that basically said the same thing. It's like, you know,

0:27:49.720 --> 0:27:51.800
<v Speaker 2>what are your ideas? This one got a little goofy

0:27:52.560 --> 0:27:56.480
<v Speaker 2>to say the least. Someone suggests an artificial moon as

0:27:56.480 --> 0:27:57.720
<v Speaker 2>a storage vessel.

0:27:58.960 --> 0:28:00.399
<v Speaker 1>There's just a huge flaw on that one.

0:28:00.440 --> 0:28:02.119
<v Speaker 2>If you ask me, I mean I don't even get that.

0:28:02.760 --> 0:28:04.960
<v Speaker 1>Well, it was like, how do you make sure that

0:28:05.000 --> 0:28:10.080
<v Speaker 1>the information about this site stays protected? Put it into

0:28:10.160 --> 0:28:12.639
<v Speaker 1>an artificial moon in orbit around Earth? But it's like,

0:28:12.920 --> 0:28:14.680
<v Speaker 1>how do you get to the artificial.

0:28:14.280 --> 0:28:16.720
<v Speaker 2>Don't get that's what they meant that. Yeah, that doesn't

0:28:16.720 --> 0:28:18.880
<v Speaker 2>make any sense. That's what I think I guess they were.

0:28:18.920 --> 0:28:21.399
<v Speaker 2>I mean it said, oh, well, were they beaming it

0:28:21.440 --> 0:28:23.400
<v Speaker 2>down to a TV that won't play?

0:28:23.560 --> 0:28:26.320
<v Speaker 1>That's a different one. Yeah, and that. I just don't

0:28:26.400 --> 0:28:27.360
<v Speaker 1>understand this at all.

0:28:27.720 --> 0:28:30.880
<v Speaker 2>I don't understand the Radioactive Cats either, even though that's

0:28:30.920 --> 0:28:32.120
<v Speaker 2>a decent band name.

0:28:32.320 --> 0:28:35.000
<v Speaker 1>So there. That was a big part of the ninety

0:28:35.080 --> 0:28:38.360
<v Speaker 1>nine percent Invisible episode. Now Nuclear Semiotics. They talked about

0:28:38.360 --> 0:28:41.280
<v Speaker 1>the ray Cats, and I think they actually hired a

0:28:41.360 --> 0:28:44.520
<v Speaker 1>musician to create a song because just like with the

0:28:44.560 --> 0:28:47.920
<v Speaker 1>glowing Yucca, you have to explain what's going on when

0:28:47.920 --> 0:28:50.080
<v Speaker 1>the cats glow, you need to stay away. So they

0:28:50.120 --> 0:28:52.200
<v Speaker 1>had somebody come up with a Raycat song I believe

0:28:52.200 --> 0:28:52.960
<v Speaker 1>for the episode.

0:28:53.160 --> 0:28:54.800
<v Speaker 2>Was it Hoody and the Blowfish, Yes, it was.

0:28:55.880 --> 0:28:56.720
<v Speaker 1>That was a good guess.

0:28:56.760 --> 0:28:58.920
<v Speaker 2>Now, this one I thought was had a little I

0:28:58.920 --> 0:29:03.800
<v Speaker 2>thought it was interesting. This semi Aitian named Thomas Cibioc.

0:29:05.280 --> 0:29:10.280
<v Speaker 2>He said, this what has survived more than anything else religion, Right,

0:29:10.600 --> 0:29:12.959
<v Speaker 2>religious texts that date back, you know, a couple thousand

0:29:13.000 --> 0:29:15.120
<v Speaker 2>years in the Catholic Church. Not a bad start.

0:29:15.200 --> 0:29:18.360
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, The ideas that you hear at Catholic Mass today

0:29:18.520 --> 0:29:21.680
<v Speaker 1>are a couple thousand years old and something instances. And

0:29:21.760 --> 0:29:23.800
<v Speaker 1>if you go back to the original text, which we

0:29:23.840 --> 0:29:27.160
<v Speaker 1>can still read, fortunately, you can say, yep, this is

0:29:27.200 --> 0:29:29.880
<v Speaker 1>what they're talking about. Like those ideas have survived that

0:29:30.040 --> 0:29:32.600
<v Speaker 1>long because of the practices they use.

0:29:32.680 --> 0:29:35.400
<v Speaker 2>So interesting idea, But it gets a little goofy yeah,

0:29:35.440 --> 0:29:39.080
<v Speaker 2>because he thought, why don't we almost create a fake

0:29:39.240 --> 0:29:45.560
<v Speaker 2>religion around this thing, a fearful myth that you can generate,

0:29:45.720 --> 0:29:50.720
<v Speaker 2>appointing an atomic priesthood to tell people and tell them

0:29:50.800 --> 0:29:54.640
<v Speaker 2>to tell future generations. But I mean, I guess the

0:29:54.720 --> 0:29:57.560
<v Speaker 2>idea is that it's all false and it's just a

0:29:57.560 --> 0:29:59.000
<v Speaker 2>big made up story.

0:29:59.120 --> 0:30:01.840
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, the comic priesthood would know the truth and they

0:30:01.840 --> 0:30:06.120
<v Speaker 1>would indoctrinate people. But out in society around them, it

0:30:06.120 --> 0:30:09.440
<v Speaker 1>would be a closely guarded secret because everybody else thinks

0:30:09.600 --> 0:30:12.280
<v Speaker 1>that whatever this fake myth about, why you have to

0:30:12.320 --> 0:30:16.880
<v Speaker 1>stay away from this haunted, evil area is true when

0:30:16.960 --> 0:30:20.120
<v Speaker 1>really the atomic priests are the ones who know no,

0:30:20.240 --> 0:30:23.760
<v Speaker 1>actually there's radioactive stuff that out here. They just came

0:30:23.840 --> 0:30:26.800
<v Speaker 1>up with this three thousand years ago to scare everybody away.

0:30:27.360 --> 0:30:29.880
<v Speaker 2>But initially a decent idea as far as trying to

0:30:29.920 --> 0:30:32.960
<v Speaker 2>make it or incorporate like what religion does. But it

0:30:33.080 --> 0:30:34.480
<v Speaker 2>just definitely strange.

0:30:34.600 --> 0:30:38.120
<v Speaker 1>It is to me though, it is at its base despicable.

0:30:38.320 --> 0:30:43.800
<v Speaker 1>It's a despicable idea because it is purposefully introducing fearful,

0:30:44.040 --> 0:30:48.000
<v Speaker 1>false superstition into the future, Like we're going to purposefully

0:30:48.040 --> 0:30:52.000
<v Speaker 1>introduce fearful false superstition into the future just to scare

0:30:52.000 --> 0:30:56.000
<v Speaker 1>people off from radioactivity, like what kind of sweeping side effects,

0:30:56.120 --> 0:30:58.640
<v Speaker 1>what kind of wars might start over this time? People

0:30:58.680 --> 0:31:02.000
<v Speaker 1>will die? Then this fake thing that they don't realize

0:31:02.120 --> 0:31:05.000
<v Speaker 1>is fake. Because Thomas Sebiak came up with this idea

0:31:05.200 --> 0:31:07.680
<v Speaker 1>to keep people away from a single site in New Mexico,

0:31:08.240 --> 0:31:09.320
<v Speaker 1>that's crazy.

0:31:09.480 --> 0:31:12.040
<v Speaker 2>It didn't fare too well either among his colleagues.

0:31:12.080 --> 0:31:14.719
<v Speaker 1>No, and rightfully so, because again it's a despicable idea.

0:31:14.880 --> 0:31:17.600
<v Speaker 2>So he was on the Human Interference Task Force. We

0:31:17.680 --> 0:31:22.040
<v Speaker 2>mentioned the Nevada site. That was what was what was

0:31:22.120 --> 0:31:24.880
<v Speaker 2>launched for that yucka Mountain site back in eighty one,

0:31:24.960 --> 0:31:26.080
<v Speaker 2>from eighty one to eighty three.

0:31:26.520 --> 0:31:31.400
<v Speaker 1>So whatever Cebiac's original idea was, he had like some

0:31:31.600 --> 0:31:35.960
<v Speaker 1>other closely related ideas that were great. Though, Yeah, like

0:31:36.000 --> 0:31:38.680
<v Speaker 1>he's not like this a total nut job happened. I

0:31:38.720 --> 0:31:41.800
<v Speaker 1>think it was just a misfire for in an otherwise

0:31:41.840 --> 0:31:44.880
<v Speaker 1>illustrious career. I think I don't know that much about him.

0:31:45.000 --> 0:31:49.360
<v Speaker 1>But one of his other ideas was, Okay, well, let's

0:31:49.360 --> 0:31:52.920
<v Speaker 1>take the atomic priesthood away, let's take the religion and

0:31:52.960 --> 0:31:55.760
<v Speaker 1>all that stuff away, and let's just give them like

0:31:55.800 --> 0:31:58.760
<v Speaker 1>the facts, but let's figure out a way to make

0:31:58.800 --> 0:32:01.480
<v Speaker 1>sure that those facts get pass down. And what he

0:32:01.560 --> 0:32:04.520
<v Speaker 1>came up with was called a meta message, where it's

0:32:04.560 --> 0:32:09.200
<v Speaker 1>a message that says, this place has nuclear radiation, it

0:32:09.200 --> 0:32:11.280
<v Speaker 1>can kill you. You need to stay away from it.

0:32:12.080 --> 0:32:15.200
<v Speaker 1>And we invite you to take this message and translate

0:32:15.240 --> 0:32:17.960
<v Speaker 1>it into whatever languages you guys have on Earth at.

0:32:17.880 --> 0:32:20.160
<v Speaker 2>The time, assuming you can read this right.

0:32:20.560 --> 0:32:23.440
<v Speaker 1>But if you do that often enough, there will always

0:32:23.480 --> 0:32:26.200
<v Speaker 1>be somebody who can translate it. Oh sure, And then

0:32:26.920 --> 0:32:29.760
<v Speaker 1>that way you form a bridge between now and as

0:32:29.800 --> 0:32:32.200
<v Speaker 1>far into the future as people are around to read

0:32:32.280 --> 0:32:36.280
<v Speaker 1>and add their own interpretation or their own translation of it.

0:32:36.560 --> 0:32:38.760
<v Speaker 1>But then you want to leave the original so that

0:32:38.800 --> 0:32:42.200
<v Speaker 1>if there's ever like a disagreement about what word meant,

0:32:42.680 --> 0:32:46.120
<v Speaker 1>hopefully somebody can go back language and language language and

0:32:46.200 --> 0:32:49.360
<v Speaker 1>connect them so that they can see the original version.

0:32:50.240 --> 0:32:53.840
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, but like what if a society develops an isolation

0:32:54.000 --> 0:32:56.280
<v Speaker 2>that knows none of these languages.

0:32:56.280 --> 0:33:00.200
<v Speaker 1>You're just totally toast. Yeah, that's when the symbols come in.

0:33:00.800 --> 0:33:03.080
<v Speaker 2>Right. So what they settled on as a panel though,

0:33:03.160 --> 0:33:06.760
<v Speaker 2>and from eighty one to eighty three was what's called

0:33:06.800 --> 0:33:09.840
<v Speaker 2>long term communication was going to be the most effective thing,

0:33:09.880 --> 0:33:11.440
<v Speaker 2>like kind of what you were just talking about, right,

0:33:11.840 --> 0:33:14.320
<v Speaker 2>And they said a system that combines physical markers and

0:33:14.440 --> 0:33:17.320
<v Speaker 2>archives that cover the two major forms of this long

0:33:17.400 --> 0:33:23.760
<v Speaker 2>term community communicate, direct and successive. Direct utilizes markers, and

0:33:24.600 --> 0:33:28.480
<v Speaker 2>successive is humans like you were talking about. I guess

0:33:28.480 --> 0:33:30.520
<v Speaker 2>with this meta message, I guess you could write it down,

0:33:30.560 --> 0:33:33.000
<v Speaker 2>but it's still humans carrying a message through time.

0:33:33.200 --> 0:33:35.760
<v Speaker 1>Well, it's more like a direct one is like you

0:33:35.800 --> 0:33:39.920
<v Speaker 1>can write an inscription on a monument and that monument

0:33:40.000 --> 0:33:43.200
<v Speaker 1>is going to deliver that message directly to people ten

0:33:43.240 --> 0:33:44.440
<v Speaker 1>thousand years from now, yeah.

0:33:44.440 --> 0:33:45.720
<v Speaker 2>I mean it's a physical thing.

0:33:45.720 --> 0:33:48.760
<v Speaker 1>Right, whereas with successive it's kind of passed along like

0:33:48.800 --> 0:33:49.320
<v Speaker 1>a game.

0:33:49.160 --> 0:33:52.160
<v Speaker 2>Of telephone exactly. And you know how that goes, right,

0:33:52.200 --> 0:33:54.480
<v Speaker 2>It can get a little hinky, that's right, but it's

0:33:54.480 --> 0:33:56.240
<v Speaker 2>always fun at a slumber party.

0:33:56.400 --> 0:33:59.360
<v Speaker 1>Sure, So they came up with multiple ones, Like you

0:33:59.400 --> 0:34:05.160
<v Speaker 1>were saying, they've settled on a monument that had massive

0:34:05.200 --> 0:34:09.120
<v Speaker 1>stone structures. Remember, you want monoliths, they're engraved with warnings

0:34:09.400 --> 0:34:12.520
<v Speaker 1>in all currently known languages. It's a lot of languages.

0:34:13.280 --> 0:34:13.719
<v Speaker 2>You want a.

0:34:13.640 --> 0:34:16.840
<v Speaker 1>Buried vault that has all the info you need about radioactivity,

0:34:16.840 --> 0:34:19.360
<v Speaker 1>about the site, all that stuff. Sure, you want a

0:34:19.400 --> 0:34:23.200
<v Speaker 1>bunch of barriers around the site, not necessarily to definitely

0:34:23.280 --> 0:34:25.520
<v Speaker 1>keep people out, but enough to basically say, hey, hey,

0:34:25.560 --> 0:34:27.399
<v Speaker 1>we're trying to impede progress here.

0:34:27.600 --> 0:34:29.080
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I mean to me, that's one of the most

0:34:29.120 --> 0:34:32.479
<v Speaker 2>obvious ones. If like you see a huge wall again,

0:34:32.520 --> 0:34:35.359
<v Speaker 2>it might entice you, but it for sure indicates to

0:34:35.400 --> 0:34:37.600
<v Speaker 2>any culture that you're like, you're not meant to come

0:34:37.680 --> 0:34:38.839
<v Speaker 2>beyond this, Right.

0:34:39.480 --> 0:34:43.840
<v Speaker 1>And then the last one is a network of archives

0:34:44.000 --> 0:34:47.239
<v Speaker 1>basically the same information you would have in that buried vault, right,

0:34:47.400 --> 0:34:50.200
<v Speaker 1>but elsewhere scattered around the world. So if something happens

0:34:50.239 --> 0:34:52.560
<v Speaker 1>with the buried vault, somebody can come across the archives

0:34:52.560 --> 0:34:54.200
<v Speaker 1>somewhere and be like, oh wait, wait, we want to

0:34:54.239 --> 0:34:54.680
<v Speaker 1>stay out of.

0:34:54.680 --> 0:34:57.040
<v Speaker 2>There, right. And along with that, they said, while we're

0:34:57.040 --> 0:34:59.879
<v Speaker 2>at it, can we at least like all agree around

0:35:00.080 --> 0:35:03.280
<v Speaker 2>world on a nuclear warning symbol. If it's the trefoil

0:35:03.400 --> 0:35:07.759
<v Speaker 2>or whatever, let's just all codify that as the thing,

0:35:07.920 --> 0:35:09.200
<v Speaker 2>which is not the case right now.

0:35:09.320 --> 0:35:12.640
<v Speaker 1>No, there's was a triangle with an arrow pointing down,

0:35:12.719 --> 0:35:14.440
<v Speaker 1>and then in the head of the arrow was the

0:35:14.480 --> 0:35:17.839
<v Speaker 1>Biohezard symbol, which is not great because you want something

0:35:17.880 --> 0:35:19.920
<v Speaker 1>that's going to be so simple that even as.

0:35:19.880 --> 0:35:22.520
<v Speaker 2>People confuse me, I need to see it. I guess yeah.

0:35:22.560 --> 0:35:24.399
<v Speaker 1>It's even when you see it you're like, wait what.

0:35:25.719 --> 0:35:27.919
<v Speaker 1>But you want something simple enough so that as people

0:35:28.000 --> 0:35:30.080
<v Speaker 1>kind of create a shorthand version of it, it still

0:35:30.080 --> 0:35:33.320
<v Speaker 1>retains its meaning right or visually.

0:35:33.160 --> 0:35:35.279
<v Speaker 2>All right, So that stuff was the Yaka project. In

0:35:35.320 --> 0:35:38.759
<v Speaker 2>the early eighties, they decided not to do that. They

0:35:39.120 --> 0:35:43.239
<v Speaker 2>just packed it up, put it away, and then it

0:35:43.280 --> 0:35:46.279
<v Speaker 2>all came back again with this new Mexico plant when

0:35:46.280 --> 0:35:49.719
<v Speaker 2>the Department of Energy said once again, hey, we need

0:35:49.760 --> 0:35:52.880
<v Speaker 2>to think of a sign and a symbol or whatever

0:35:52.920 --> 0:35:55.600
<v Speaker 2>you can come up with. And we need the best

0:35:55.600 --> 0:35:58.480
<v Speaker 2>and the brightest thinking of this. So call up Carl Sagan.

0:35:58.560 --> 0:36:03.520
<v Speaker 1>Get me Sagan, give me Sagan, give me Percy Tannenbaum Stat.

0:36:03.440 --> 0:36:05.879
<v Speaker 2>And this guy named John Lomberg who's a science writer

0:36:05.960 --> 0:36:09.479
<v Speaker 2>and space illustrator and he had worked in semiotics before

0:36:09.520 --> 0:36:12.680
<v Speaker 2>for NASA on their mission to Mars. Sagan was in

0:36:12.800 --> 0:36:15.200
<v Speaker 2>ill health, so he declined to come, but he sent

0:36:15.239 --> 0:36:19.400
<v Speaker 2>a message from the president. I guess that said skull

0:36:19.400 --> 0:36:23.680
<v Speaker 2>and crossbones. Dude, done. Yeah, universal, everyone knows it.

0:36:23.719 --> 0:36:26.200
<v Speaker 1>He gave a really good example. He said, it has

0:36:27.320 --> 0:36:30.840
<v Speaker 1>it's marked the lintels of cannibal dwellings, the flags of pirates,

0:36:31.080 --> 0:36:34.960
<v Speaker 1>the insignia of SS divisions and motorcycle gangs. He makes

0:36:34.960 --> 0:36:37.399
<v Speaker 1>a pretty good point. A lot of people out there

0:36:37.440 --> 0:36:39.440
<v Speaker 1>see a skull and crossbones and no, it means like

0:36:39.560 --> 0:36:41.560
<v Speaker 1>danger problems.

0:36:41.680 --> 0:36:44.920
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, it means this will be you. Yes, you know,

0:36:45.000 --> 0:36:45.880
<v Speaker 2>you'll be a skull.

0:36:46.320 --> 0:36:50.560
<v Speaker 1>And so the the working group for the Whip project

0:36:50.920 --> 0:36:54.160
<v Speaker 1>they said, no, that doesn't work. It's a Youngian archetype.

0:36:54.160 --> 0:36:57.040
<v Speaker 1>It doesn't really exist outside of the West. Ye to me,

0:36:57.200 --> 0:36:59.640
<v Speaker 1>I'm like, no, Sagan was definitely onto something.

0:37:00.080 --> 0:37:02.280
<v Speaker 2>Think so. I mean, tell me, if you go to

0:37:02.560 --> 0:37:06.200
<v Speaker 2>China and hold up a sign with a skull and crossbunds,

0:37:07.200 --> 0:37:09.000
<v Speaker 2>I would think so, wouldn't they. I mean, that's a

0:37:09.040 --> 0:37:10.120
<v Speaker 2>dire warning, isn't it.

0:37:10.440 --> 0:37:12.640
<v Speaker 1>I think their point is is that the skull used

0:37:12.680 --> 0:37:15.239
<v Speaker 1>to be like a memento moral where it meant like

0:37:15.320 --> 0:37:16.759
<v Speaker 1>rebirth and prepare death.

0:37:16.800 --> 0:37:18.520
<v Speaker 2>So they could be like, oh, wonderful a skull and

0:37:18.520 --> 0:37:19.839
<v Speaker 2>crossbud Sure, but.

0:37:21.680 --> 0:37:26.320
<v Speaker 1>To me, that is the one enduring symbol that's always

0:37:26.360 --> 0:37:28.920
<v Speaker 1>going to be around as long as there are humans,

0:37:29.520 --> 0:37:32.479
<v Speaker 1>because what happens when you die and rot what's left

0:37:32.560 --> 0:37:36.080
<v Speaker 1>your skull. Every human knows that. Even humans in the

0:37:36.080 --> 0:37:38.400
<v Speaker 1>future are going to know that, even ones that are

0:37:38.480 --> 0:37:43.000
<v Speaker 1>in like a post collapse tribes were running around like

0:37:43.200 --> 0:37:45.760
<v Speaker 1>and have lost all of the languages that are around today,

0:37:45.880 --> 0:37:47.759
<v Speaker 1>they're going to know what a skull looks like or

0:37:47.760 --> 0:37:49.799
<v Speaker 1>what a skull means, or at least one of them

0:37:49.880 --> 0:37:51.640
<v Speaker 1>is going to be like, wait, I don't think this

0:37:51.800 --> 0:37:54.919
<v Speaker 1>is saying that the rainbow's coming. I think it means

0:37:54.960 --> 0:37:55.960
<v Speaker 1>like death or danger.

0:37:56.520 --> 0:37:59.560
<v Speaker 2>All right, let's take another break, Yeah, sure, and we'll

0:37:59.560 --> 0:38:02.480
<v Speaker 2>come back in talk about the approach that the whip

0:38:02.560 --> 0:38:05.080
<v Speaker 2>panel took and what they came up with right after this.

0:38:20.200 --> 0:38:31.319
<v Speaker 3>Stuffy the jawsh shot soft you.

0:38:31.320 --> 0:38:34.280
<v Speaker 1>You know, I gotta defend Sagan. It's my boy. Sure

0:38:34.600 --> 0:38:35.360
<v Speaker 1>love that guy.

0:38:35.480 --> 0:38:38.720
<v Speaker 2>Someone should ask Neil deGrasse Tyson.

0:38:39.120 --> 0:38:40.440
<v Speaker 1>Sure, why not.

0:38:40.560 --> 0:38:41.799
<v Speaker 2>I bet he's got a good idea or two.

0:38:42.920 --> 0:38:43.960
<v Speaker 1>I'll bet they have asked.

0:38:44.719 --> 0:38:46.200
<v Speaker 2>He's still no Atlanta for a show?

0:38:46.320 --> 0:38:47.760
<v Speaker 1>Oh yeah, where Fox?

0:38:48.040 --> 0:38:49.920
<v Speaker 2>I think a cop Energy center.

0:38:50.280 --> 0:38:53.279
<v Speaker 1>Oh yeah, I think that's even more seats than the phone.

0:38:53.360 --> 0:38:54.040
<v Speaker 2>No, it's less.

0:38:54.640 --> 0:38:55.960
<v Speaker 1>Oh sorry, it's.

0:38:55.800 --> 0:38:58.920
<v Speaker 2>Like three thousand people, which is nothing to you know,

0:39:00.840 --> 0:39:02.520
<v Speaker 2>put up a stink about. That's a lot of folks.

0:39:02.760 --> 0:39:03.759
<v Speaker 1>We have not hit that.

0:39:04.120 --> 0:39:04.600
<v Speaker 2>No we're not.

0:39:04.760 --> 0:39:07.640
<v Speaker 1>No, we haven't. Did you hear the Star talk I

0:39:07.680 --> 0:39:07.920
<v Speaker 1>was on?

0:39:08.640 --> 0:39:09.759
<v Speaker 2>Oh no, it was it good?

0:39:09.840 --> 0:39:10.480
<v Speaker 1>It was pretty good.

0:39:10.560 --> 0:39:10.719
<v Speaker 2>Yeah.

0:39:10.760 --> 0:39:12.719
<v Speaker 1>If I do say, if it was supposed to be

0:39:12.800 --> 0:39:16.720
<v Speaker 1>like rapid fast responses.

0:39:16.200 --> 0:39:16.880
<v Speaker 2>Uh huh.

0:39:16.920 --> 0:39:20.080
<v Speaker 1>We got through like four questions in an hour because.

0:39:19.880 --> 0:39:22.680
<v Speaker 2>You were like, rapid fast response is not my specialty.

0:39:22.719 --> 0:39:23.279
<v Speaker 2>Meal me.

0:39:23.360 --> 0:39:25.000
<v Speaker 1>Let me just do a little distracting here.

0:39:25.640 --> 0:39:29.279
<v Speaker 2>I'm more deliberate, all right. So, speaking of deliberate, the

0:39:29.280 --> 0:39:32.399
<v Speaker 2>Whippanel was very deliberate and methodical. They divided it into

0:39:32.400 --> 0:39:36.360
<v Speaker 2>teams and approached it from the two things we were

0:39:36.400 --> 0:39:40.279
<v Speaker 2>talking about, direct and successive forms of communication. Debated a lot,

0:39:40.400 --> 0:39:44.799
<v Speaker 2>deliberated a lot the recommendations. They had two proposals, and

0:39:44.840 --> 0:39:47.680
<v Speaker 2>they did overlap a little bit. What I thought was

0:39:47.680 --> 0:39:50.640
<v Speaker 2>pretty smart is they both had a multi leveled approach

0:39:51.160 --> 0:39:55.360
<v Speaker 2>from the surface down that got more specific and intense

0:39:55.440 --> 0:39:56.200
<v Speaker 2>as you went down.

0:39:56.280 --> 0:39:59.040
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, the first one was basically like you, ding Dong,

0:39:59.360 --> 0:40:02.399
<v Speaker 1>this is dan or go away exactly. That's like level one,

0:40:02.480 --> 0:40:05.239
<v Speaker 1>and then level two is like, okay, ding Dong and

0:40:05.280 --> 0:40:08.200
<v Speaker 1>your kind of smart friend explain to ding Dong that

0:40:08.239 --> 0:40:10.439
<v Speaker 1>the reason this is dangerous because there's something buried here

0:40:10.480 --> 0:40:12.200
<v Speaker 1>and it's gonna hurt you, all.

0:40:12.200 --> 0:40:14.120
<v Speaker 2>Right, should we don't talk about the real things?

0:40:14.400 --> 0:40:17.440
<v Speaker 1>Oh? Sure, I thought I was so group A.

0:40:19.320 --> 0:40:22.040
<v Speaker 2>This was theirs. They studded the surface of the site

0:40:22.400 --> 0:40:25.759
<v Speaker 2>with what they called menacing earthworks, so a field of

0:40:25.800 --> 0:40:29.920
<v Speaker 2>spikes and then a big, massive disc painted to look

0:40:29.960 --> 0:40:32.799
<v Speaker 2>like a black hole. I didn't quite get that part.

0:40:32.920 --> 0:40:33.680
<v Speaker 1>It's so dumb.

0:40:33.760 --> 0:40:34.560
<v Speaker 2>I get the spikes.

0:40:35.320 --> 0:40:39.319
<v Speaker 1>I think it's the yeah, of course, But the black hole,

0:40:39.360 --> 0:40:41.200
<v Speaker 1>I think it's supposed to just mean like a void

0:40:41.280 --> 0:40:43.799
<v Speaker 1>or chaos. I don't know. I'm not sure I could

0:40:43.800 --> 0:40:46.239
<v Speaker 1>see how you would think that that was kind of universal,

0:40:46.320 --> 0:40:48.600
<v Speaker 1>like nobody wants to fall into a hole or something,

0:40:48.640 --> 0:40:50.800
<v Speaker 1>and maybe it evokes that kind of like stay away

0:40:50.920 --> 0:40:51.279
<v Speaker 1>all right.

0:40:52.000 --> 0:40:54.960
<v Speaker 2>Then they have large markers all around the site, which,

0:40:55.120 --> 0:40:57.719
<v Speaker 2>like you said, are the really basic messages in the warnings,

0:40:58.480 --> 0:41:02.480
<v Speaker 2>including and I thought this is so interesting faces that

0:41:02.640 --> 0:41:05.000
<v Speaker 2>invoke Edvard Munch's the scream.

0:41:05.560 --> 0:41:09.440
<v Speaker 1>The ones I saw were the scream. Yeah, like it

0:41:09.560 --> 0:41:10.920
<v Speaker 1>was the line drawing of the guy from the.

0:41:10.920 --> 0:41:14.600
<v Speaker 2>Screen people, Yeah, like in great agony and pain. That

0:41:14.760 --> 0:41:15.800
<v Speaker 2>to me not bad.

0:41:15.920 --> 0:41:18.720
<v Speaker 1>It isn't bad. I don't know though, is that more

0:41:19.360 --> 0:41:22.160
<v Speaker 1>universally understood than a skull and crossbones?

0:41:22.239 --> 0:41:25.040
<v Speaker 2>I don't know, or if art survives or people like, oh,

0:41:25.080 --> 0:41:26.640
<v Speaker 2>I wonder if that painting's down there.

0:41:26.640 --> 0:41:29.000
<v Speaker 1>Well, I think what they're saying is and semi autitians

0:41:29.080 --> 0:41:31.600
<v Speaker 1>kind of feel this way. Is that Edvard Monk so

0:41:32.280 --> 0:41:35.680
<v Speaker 1>perfectly nailed the scream that even without the art, like,

0:41:35.719 --> 0:41:38.000
<v Speaker 1>if you see that, you understand that that person you're

0:41:38.000 --> 0:41:39.000
<v Speaker 1>seeing is in agony?

0:41:39.280 --> 0:41:41.400
<v Speaker 2>Did I say Munch? No?

0:41:41.480 --> 0:41:43.399
<v Speaker 1>I think you said Monk did I say munch.

0:41:43.640 --> 0:41:45.400
<v Speaker 2>You said Monk. I might have said Munch.

0:41:45.560 --> 0:41:48.280
<v Speaker 1>No, you said I think you said monk. Is it Munch?

0:41:48.840 --> 0:41:51.000
<v Speaker 2>I think it's probably Monk. There's no way his name

0:41:51.080 --> 0:41:51.439
<v Speaker 2>is Munch.

0:41:51.560 --> 0:41:54.240
<v Speaker 1>I'm almost positive you said monk. Jerry, can you rewind

0:41:54.280 --> 0:41:55.240
<v Speaker 1>for a second.

0:41:56.480 --> 0:41:56.800
<v Speaker 2>Much?

0:41:57.440 --> 0:41:59.759
<v Speaker 1>Oh you did say much. I would have sworn you

0:41:59.800 --> 0:42:00.359
<v Speaker 1>said munk.

0:42:01.120 --> 0:42:04.359
<v Speaker 2>So Group A below the surface this is when they

0:42:04.480 --> 0:42:06.960
<v Speaker 2>actually start talking about nuclear waste to what it does

0:42:07.000 --> 0:42:09.839
<v Speaker 2>to you, the details about the structure and all that.

0:42:09.760 --> 0:42:13.880
<v Speaker 1>Stuff, right, not bad, where they teach a little bit

0:42:13.880 --> 0:42:14.960
<v Speaker 1>about radioactivity.

0:42:15.200 --> 0:42:19.759
<v Speaker 2>So Group B this was they went super informative, and

0:42:19.800 --> 0:42:22.520
<v Speaker 2>really what they relied on was that people had a

0:42:22.560 --> 0:42:25.160
<v Speaker 2>little bit of knowledge in the future about stuff like this.

0:42:25.320 --> 0:42:28.080
<v Speaker 1>But they also trusted that the people didn't have to

0:42:28.160 --> 0:42:30.680
<v Speaker 1>just be spooked or scared or something like that. That

0:42:31.480 --> 0:42:34.080
<v Speaker 1>it's like, here is the facts and information is why

0:42:34.120 --> 0:42:35.480
<v Speaker 1>you want to stay away from that.

0:42:35.840 --> 0:42:39.920
<v Speaker 2>Yeah. Their big above ground work was these big earthen

0:42:40.080 --> 0:42:43.680
<v Speaker 2>walls in the shape of the nuclear trifoil not bad.

0:42:43.920 --> 0:42:45.400
<v Speaker 2>I imagine you have to see it from above to

0:42:45.440 --> 0:42:45.880
<v Speaker 2>even know though.

0:42:46.080 --> 0:42:48.440
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, was, But that's part of the one of the

0:42:48.480 --> 0:42:52.640
<v Speaker 1>requirements was that you want it to be easily visible,

0:42:52.719 --> 0:42:56.960
<v Speaker 1>not just with human cognition, but like remote sensing too, right,

0:42:57.120 --> 0:43:00.600
<v Speaker 1>so like magnetic surveys. They said, we should put some

0:43:00.640 --> 0:43:03.479
<v Speaker 1>magnets in here, right, not just from when you walk

0:43:03.560 --> 0:43:04.240
<v Speaker 1>up to it.

0:43:04.440 --> 0:43:05.960
<v Speaker 2>Right so, and you outside to be able to see

0:43:05.960 --> 0:43:09.640
<v Speaker 2>it from your flying saucer exactly. And then inside the

0:43:09.680 --> 0:43:13.320
<v Speaker 2>walls they have at various steps have these big markers,

0:43:13.320 --> 0:43:17.239
<v Speaker 2>and here's where these like symbols and pictographs, all kinds

0:43:17.280 --> 0:43:22.960
<v Speaker 2>of languages, writing in different languages, and then more human

0:43:23.000 --> 0:43:26.680
<v Speaker 2>faces increasingly contorted in agony as you go down.

0:43:26.840 --> 0:43:30.600
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, it looks to me like the guys getting drunker

0:43:30.640 --> 0:43:34.640
<v Speaker 1>and drunker. Yeah, yeah, that's what it looks like.

0:43:34.880 --> 0:43:37.840
<v Speaker 2>Well, maybe that means there's a happening bar exactly.

0:43:37.880 --> 0:43:39.480
<v Speaker 1>That's how I would take it if I were a

0:43:39.520 --> 0:43:41.200
<v Speaker 1>future human post collapse.

0:43:41.440 --> 0:43:42.959
<v Speaker 2>Gotta go, gotta go down here.

0:43:43.040 --> 0:43:46.120
<v Speaker 1>There were also pictograms you're just like digging through the

0:43:46.120 --> 0:43:48.680
<v Speaker 1>sand to get to Yeah. There are also pictograms that

0:43:48.800 --> 0:43:52.880
<v Speaker 1>showed like under the ground, like real easy to understand

0:43:52.960 --> 0:43:57.520
<v Speaker 1>drawings of the radioactive waste the water ground water flowing

0:43:57.560 --> 0:44:01.000
<v Speaker 1>through it, taking the radioactive waste up to the plants,

0:44:01.000 --> 0:44:03.120
<v Speaker 1>which are then eaten by the humans in the picture,

0:44:03.920 --> 0:44:07.399
<v Speaker 1>one of whom dies, which makes sense. You don't need

0:44:07.440 --> 0:44:10.040
<v Speaker 1>to understand anything about radioactivity. You don't need to be

0:44:10.040 --> 0:44:13.160
<v Speaker 1>able to read anything. It's a really like it makes sense,

0:44:13.440 --> 0:44:16.000
<v Speaker 1>especially if some people are sitting there thinking about it.

0:44:16.040 --> 0:44:18.360
<v Speaker 2>Was the final image of skull and crossbones or a

0:44:18.400 --> 0:44:19.040
<v Speaker 2>pile of bones.

0:44:19.120 --> 0:44:21.040
<v Speaker 1>No, it was like a person, three people standing in

0:44:21.080 --> 0:44:22.680
<v Speaker 1>one of them. The last one was like dead, and

0:44:22.719 --> 0:44:24.480
<v Speaker 1>I think he might even have exes for eyes.

0:44:24.520 --> 0:44:25.879
<v Speaker 2>Well, I was about to say, though, I mean, if

0:44:25.880 --> 0:44:28.879
<v Speaker 2>you think about twenty thousand years from now, maybe they're like, oh,

0:44:28.920 --> 0:44:33.120
<v Speaker 2>this induces a nice nap. Maybe, Like but to your

0:44:33.120 --> 0:44:35.799
<v Speaker 2>point though, like the bones is where you need to

0:44:35.880 --> 0:44:36.400
<v Speaker 2>end up.

0:44:36.360 --> 0:44:39.560
<v Speaker 1>Right, Yeah, maybe somebody would be like, oh, these veggies

0:44:39.560 --> 0:44:41.239
<v Speaker 1>here give you a great buzz if you grow them

0:44:41.239 --> 0:44:43.360
<v Speaker 1>on this ground. Yeah, exes for eyes, right, Yeah, the

0:44:43.400 --> 0:44:45.600
<v Speaker 1>bones do make a lot more sense. I think Sagan

0:44:45.719 --> 0:44:48.640
<v Speaker 1>was right. That's that should be a T shirt. Stuff

0:44:48.640 --> 0:44:51.480
<v Speaker 1>you should know T shirt. Sagan was right, don't even

0:44:51.520 --> 0:44:52.759
<v Speaker 1>need to have any context.

0:44:53.120 --> 0:44:55.239
<v Speaker 2>We're gonna give an email in a few days from

0:44:55.239 --> 0:44:55.800
<v Speaker 2>the guy.

0:44:55.719 --> 0:44:57.879
<v Speaker 1>From the estate of Carl Sagan saying do not make

0:44:57.920 --> 0:44:58.760
<v Speaker 1>that T shirt.

0:44:59.080 --> 0:45:00.880
<v Speaker 2>So what did they go with In the end, though.

0:45:02.960 --> 0:45:09.080
<v Speaker 1>They went with an earth and burm basically to provide

0:45:09.080 --> 0:45:13.759
<v Speaker 1>an obstacle and to block easy access some granite slabs

0:45:14.160 --> 0:45:19.839
<v Speaker 1>monoliths that have warnings written in seven languages.

0:45:19.600 --> 0:45:22.440
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, Navajo and then the six languages of the un.

0:45:22.480 --> 0:45:27.760
<v Speaker 1>So Arabic, Chinese, English, Spanish, French, and Russian correct which

0:45:27.800 --> 0:45:30.160
<v Speaker 1>makes a lot of sense. But then they took Thomas

0:45:30.200 --> 0:45:33.319
<v Speaker 1>Siebiak up on his idea. They kind of built on

0:45:33.360 --> 0:45:38.120
<v Speaker 1>the earlier religion right exactly, and they left blank spaces

0:45:38.400 --> 0:45:41.000
<v Speaker 1>or they play in their plan. They leave blank spaces

0:45:41.040 --> 0:45:44.319
<v Speaker 1>on these slabs for future generations to add their own

0:45:44.800 --> 0:45:46.840
<v Speaker 1>translations of the inscriptions.

0:45:47.560 --> 0:45:51.480
<v Speaker 2>It's a great idea, and the faces of humans and

0:45:51.719 --> 0:45:54.719
<v Speaker 2>pain and anguish, right that did survive in the end.

0:45:55.040 --> 0:45:58.600
<v Speaker 1>So that was the final report on this whip panel.

0:45:58.680 --> 0:46:01.000
<v Speaker 1>It's a pretty good idea, makes a lot of sense

0:46:01.280 --> 0:46:04.000
<v Speaker 1>because it not only so there are two groups that

0:46:04.000 --> 0:46:07.640
<v Speaker 1>they're trying to say stay away, not not really like

0:46:07.800 --> 0:46:10.200
<v Speaker 1>urban explorers or thrill seekers or whatever.

0:46:10.120 --> 0:46:10.879
<v Speaker 2>Because they can die.

0:46:10.960 --> 0:46:14.160
<v Speaker 1>They would have they would have virtually no chance of

0:46:14.239 --> 0:46:17.239
<v Speaker 1>getting down to the actual radio act. The material. The

0:46:17.239 --> 0:46:20.880
<v Speaker 1>people they are worried about were technology technological advanced civilizations

0:46:21.239 --> 0:46:24.520
<v Speaker 1>that were drilling for resources, like an accident, like God

0:46:24.560 --> 0:46:28.560
<v Speaker 1>helped this this this this waste disposal site. If salt

0:46:28.680 --> 0:46:33.400
<v Speaker 1>becomes incredibly important in the future, right, and then less

0:46:33.480 --> 0:46:39.239
<v Speaker 1>advanced civilizations that could accidentally change the flow of groundwater

0:46:39.320 --> 0:46:43.279
<v Speaker 1>to go through the salt bed through massive like irrigation projects,

0:46:43.560 --> 0:46:44.480
<v Speaker 1>it covers all of it.

0:46:44.640 --> 0:46:47.799
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, My whole thing is just make it inaccessible. Why

0:46:47.840 --> 0:46:50.040
<v Speaker 2>is it in New Mexico? Why is it out?

0:46:50.200 --> 0:46:52.839
<v Speaker 1>You know, Well, that's I mean, that's pretty inaccessible.

0:46:53.200 --> 0:46:56.799
<v Speaker 2>It's not as inaccessible as you know Siberia.

0:46:57.080 --> 0:47:01.600
<v Speaker 1>No, some one of the recommendations for nuclear waste disposals

0:47:01.600 --> 0:47:03.560
<v Speaker 1>shooting it into space. Just send it out in the

0:47:03.600 --> 0:47:06.080
<v Speaker 1>outer space and forget about it. And if you believe

0:47:06.120 --> 0:47:09.120
<v Speaker 1>in the Fermi paradox that it says we're the only

0:47:09.600 --> 0:47:13.600
<v Speaker 1>intelligent life in the universe, man, more power to you. Yeah,

0:47:13.680 --> 0:47:16.120
<v Speaker 1>that's actually not that bad of an idea. It's a

0:47:16.160 --> 0:47:18.600
<v Speaker 1>horrific idea, but it's actually kind of a good idea.

0:47:18.440 --> 0:47:20.520
<v Speaker 2>To Yeah, but then I wonder about the danger and

0:47:20.560 --> 0:47:23.880
<v Speaker 2>the risk involved. I mean, we've seen rockets blow up

0:47:23.920 --> 0:47:25.920
<v Speaker 2>and space shuttles blow up. That would be bad, like

0:47:25.960 --> 0:47:27.800
<v Speaker 2>what if the thing that they're shooting it out there

0:47:27.800 --> 0:47:29.040
<v Speaker 2>malfunctioned or something.

0:47:28.840 --> 0:47:29.560
<v Speaker 1>That'd be really bad.

0:47:29.640 --> 0:47:30.399
<v Speaker 2>That'd be really bad.

0:47:30.480 --> 0:47:31.200
<v Speaker 1>That's a great point.

0:47:31.239 --> 0:47:34.720
<v Speaker 2>It's like all of our nuclear waste has just been released, oh.

0:47:34.640 --> 0:47:38.239
<v Speaker 1>Into the atmosphere. Yeah, that's a great, great point, chunk.

0:47:38.600 --> 0:47:41.480
<v Speaker 2>So here's the thing, is all of this just wasted

0:47:41.520 --> 0:47:44.360
<v Speaker 2>effort because I was getting so into the stuff and

0:47:44.400 --> 0:47:46.440
<v Speaker 2>then the end of this article was a real like

0:47:46.800 --> 0:47:50.520
<v Speaker 2>sad trombone. Yeah, because it seems like it seems like

0:47:50.600 --> 0:47:52.560
<v Speaker 2>nobody really even cares the people that matter.

0:47:52.760 --> 0:47:55.879
<v Speaker 1>Well, the first the first group like their whole thing

0:47:56.040 --> 0:47:59.400
<v Speaker 1>will will probably never be implemented because yucka mountain project

0:47:59.400 --> 0:48:02.880
<v Speaker 1>got shut down, right, But the Whip group may actually

0:48:03.239 --> 0:48:07.160
<v Speaker 1>have their plan come to fruition because it is an

0:48:07.160 --> 0:48:09.600
<v Speaker 1>EPA rule that you have to create this kind of marker,

0:48:10.080 --> 0:48:12.960
<v Speaker 1>and they've got until about twenty forty until they estimate

0:48:13.000 --> 0:48:15.320
<v Speaker 1>the place is going to shut down. So it's entirely

0:48:15.360 --> 0:48:18.080
<v Speaker 1>possible that in twenty forty or sometime in the one

0:48:18.120 --> 0:48:21.560
<v Speaker 1>hundred years after twenty forty, when the DOE stops protecting

0:48:21.560 --> 0:48:25.600
<v Speaker 1>the site or the DoD, they may implement this earthen

0:48:25.840 --> 0:48:29.120
<v Speaker 1>works in these sixteen granite slabs and we may live

0:48:29.160 --> 0:48:30.040
<v Speaker 1>to see something like this.

0:48:30.520 --> 0:48:32.759
<v Speaker 2>Well, outside of the US, it seems like no one

0:48:32.840 --> 0:48:36.800
<v Speaker 2>is super concerned. Sweden in twenty eleven had an application

0:48:36.880 --> 0:48:42.359
<v Speaker 2>to build a repository and force mark and in their

0:48:42.400 --> 0:48:45.799
<v Speaker 2>literal application they basically said, you know what, we're going

0:48:45.840 --> 0:48:48.319
<v Speaker 2>to worry about that later. Yeah, in seventy years, when

0:48:48.320 --> 0:48:49.080
<v Speaker 2>this thing's finished.

0:48:49.080 --> 0:48:51.880
<v Speaker 1>They said, see this, can we just kicked this seventy

0:48:51.960 --> 0:48:52.560
<v Speaker 1>years down the.

0:48:53.160 --> 0:48:56.960
<v Speaker 2>And the Swedish National Archives they consulted on their application,

0:48:57.800 --> 0:49:00.200
<v Speaker 2>they said, that's really insufficient. It said, it gives the

0:49:00.200 --> 0:49:04.799
<v Speaker 2>impression that one intends to postpone important documentation efforts until

0:49:04.800 --> 0:49:08.000
<v Speaker 2>the closure of the repository in seventy years. And it's like,

0:49:08.040 --> 0:49:11.239
<v Speaker 2>it doesn't give the impression. It literally said that, right, So.

0:49:12.080 --> 0:49:13.880
<v Speaker 1>I think they're being ultra polite.

0:49:14.320 --> 0:49:17.520
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I think, well Sweden, right. Good people in the.

0:49:17.520 --> 0:49:19.680
<v Speaker 1>US, though, don't tell asap Rocky then.

0:49:19.640 --> 0:49:23.200
<v Speaker 2>That don't even know what that means. That's the singer, right, Yeah,

0:49:23.480 --> 0:49:24.120
<v Speaker 2>he's a rapper.

0:49:24.120 --> 0:49:25.680
<v Speaker 1>He's in prison in Sweden right now.

0:49:25.880 --> 0:49:28.040
<v Speaker 2>I did not know that oh man did what he do.

0:49:28.719 --> 0:49:30.680
<v Speaker 1>He got into a fight with some Swedish kids and

0:49:30.719 --> 0:49:32.239
<v Speaker 1>it may or may not have been their fall. It

0:49:32.239 --> 0:49:34.920
<v Speaker 1>looks on video like they definitely provoked it. Really, but

0:49:35.000 --> 0:49:37.399
<v Speaker 1>the King of Sweden is like, sorry, rule of law.

0:49:37.440 --> 0:49:41.120
<v Speaker 1>It applies to everybody, including super famous Americans.

0:49:41.280 --> 0:49:41.840
<v Speaker 2>Well true.

0:49:41.920 --> 0:49:44.160
<v Speaker 1>Donald Trump called him to try to get the thing

0:49:44.200 --> 0:49:47.560
<v Speaker 1>resolved at the behest of Kanye West. Oh God, and

0:49:47.640 --> 0:49:49.719
<v Speaker 1>apparently it's just made everything worse. And now the King

0:49:49.760 --> 0:49:52.400
<v Speaker 1>of Sweden is like, there's no chance he's getting released early.

0:49:52.560 --> 0:49:55.160
<v Speaker 2>Wow, man, where have I been?

0:49:55.760 --> 0:49:58.480
<v Speaker 1>This is reality. I know what I just said is

0:49:58.680 --> 0:50:02.440
<v Speaker 1>actual fact that actually happened here in twenty nineteen. Everybody,

0:50:02.840 --> 0:50:05.920
<v Speaker 1>Humans are the far future? Can you believe it?

0:50:07.160 --> 0:50:09.960
<v Speaker 2>Humans of the near John Lomberg, that guy we were

0:50:10.000 --> 0:50:12.279
<v Speaker 2>talking about earlier, who was on that original nineteen ninety

0:50:12.280 --> 0:50:14.680
<v Speaker 2>one whip panel, he told Weiss just a couple of

0:50:14.760 --> 0:50:18.320
<v Speaker 2>years ago, a lot of us had been around the

0:50:18.320 --> 0:50:20.319
<v Speaker 2>block a few times before, because you know, he was

0:50:20.360 --> 0:50:22.799
<v Speaker 2>back then doing the same thing and knew this is

0:50:22.800 --> 0:50:25.160
<v Speaker 2>going to be a report. The government only did and

0:50:25.200 --> 0:50:27.439
<v Speaker 2>this is the US, and we're putting more thought toward

0:50:27.680 --> 0:50:28.719
<v Speaker 2>this than anyone.

0:50:28.520 --> 0:50:30.200
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, which is really surprising.

0:50:30.360 --> 0:50:32.480
<v Speaker 2>He said they only did this because they needed to

0:50:32.520 --> 0:50:35.440
<v Speaker 2>show compliance. They didn't really care what we said. And

0:50:35.480 --> 0:50:39.160
<v Speaker 2>then and from the nineteen eighty one Human Interference Task

0:50:39.200 --> 0:50:42.600
<v Speaker 2>Force during the competition, they basically said, the most effective

0:50:42.600 --> 0:50:45.120
<v Speaker 2>sign will be the dead bodies of those foolish enough

0:50:45.120 --> 0:50:48.560
<v Speaker 2>to ignore, which makes sense. Whatever sign, So basically like

0:50:49.880 --> 0:50:52.480
<v Speaker 2>who cares, someone will do, someone will get in there,

0:50:52.520 --> 0:50:54.920
<v Speaker 2>and they'll all die, and then that'll be the big morning.

0:50:54.840 --> 0:50:58.200
<v Speaker 1>Right, which makes sense if humans are in communication around

0:50:58.239 --> 0:51:00.520
<v Speaker 1>the globe and you've got the same morning. But if

0:51:00.520 --> 0:51:04.960
<v Speaker 1>they're not, then it's catastrophe, catastrophe, catastrophe. But at least

0:51:05.040 --> 0:51:07.239
<v Speaker 1>we fulfilled our part of the bargain where we really

0:51:07.239 --> 0:51:11.640
<v Speaker 1>tried to warn everybody agreed. You got anything else? Nah,

0:51:11.960 --> 0:51:15.000
<v Speaker 1>if you will indulge me, I would like to plug

0:51:15.239 --> 0:51:17.480
<v Speaker 1>The End of the World with Josh Clark, the what

0:51:18.000 --> 0:51:20.719
<v Speaker 1>the End of the World with Josh Clark? If like

0:51:20.800 --> 0:51:23.239
<v Speaker 1>thinking about things in like far deep time in the

0:51:23.239 --> 0:51:25.640
<v Speaker 1>future of humanity and all that stuff kind of floated

0:51:25.640 --> 0:51:28.680
<v Speaker 1>your boat, I would recommend my little podcast series, The

0:51:28.760 --> 0:51:29.920
<v Speaker 1>End of the World of Josh Clark.

0:51:29.960 --> 0:51:32.600
<v Speaker 2>For sure. This is right up your alley.

0:51:32.360 --> 0:51:35.360
<v Speaker 1>Thank you, Chuck. And since Chuck said right up your alley,

0:51:35.400 --> 0:51:36.960
<v Speaker 1>it's time for a listener mail.

0:51:39.200 --> 0:51:41.960
<v Speaker 2>Hey guys, we are strangers, but we aren't. You've been

0:51:41.960 --> 0:51:43.719
<v Speaker 2>with me during the most challenging times of my life.

0:51:43.760 --> 0:51:45.879
<v Speaker 2>I've listened to your show for about seven years. I'm

0:51:45.880 --> 0:51:49.359
<v Speaker 2>an English teacher, and my students retired and making fun

0:51:49.400 --> 0:51:51.600
<v Speaker 2>of me because I always start lessons with So I

0:51:51.640 --> 0:51:54.239
<v Speaker 2>was listening to stuff you should know. I went through

0:51:54.280 --> 0:51:56.400
<v Speaker 2>a huge life change recently. I was in a relationship

0:51:56.400 --> 0:51:59.279
<v Speaker 2>for five years, engage for four of them, and move

0:51:59.320 --> 0:52:02.200
<v Speaker 2>from Phoenix to Charlotte after ending that relationship, which was

0:52:02.200 --> 0:52:05.000
<v Speaker 2>incredibly difficult to do. During the drive, I listened to

0:52:05.040 --> 0:52:07.000
<v Speaker 2>you guys for the entire thirty four hours.

0:52:07.560 --> 0:52:12.440
<v Speaker 1>Wow, imagine No, I honestly can't.

0:52:12.360 --> 0:52:14.760
<v Speaker 2>No music, just you guys. My heart was so broken.

0:52:14.880 --> 0:52:17.560
<v Speaker 2>I didn't think I would ever be able to recover

0:52:17.600 --> 0:52:18.440
<v Speaker 2>from that trauma, but.

0:52:18.880 --> 0:52:21.640
<v Speaker 1>The trauma of listening to us for thirty four hours.

0:52:21.920 --> 0:52:23.560
<v Speaker 2>But you didn't know that you were able to comfort

0:52:23.600 --> 0:52:26.080
<v Speaker 2>me and calm me down. My brother, who helped me move,

0:52:26.680 --> 0:52:28.759
<v Speaker 2>asked me what I needed to listen to during the drive.

0:52:28.840 --> 0:52:30.680
<v Speaker 2>I told him I wanted to listen to stuff you

0:52:30.680 --> 0:52:32.600
<v Speaker 2>should know. He had never heard of it. But now

0:52:32.719 --> 0:52:36.080
<v Speaker 2>my brother Nick is also a fan, whether he likes

0:52:36.120 --> 0:52:38.799
<v Speaker 2>it or not, and we almost always start our conversations now,

0:52:38.960 --> 0:52:40.520
<v Speaker 2>did you listen to the last Stuff you Should Know?

0:52:40.600 --> 0:52:41.120
<v Speaker 1>That's cool?

0:52:41.360 --> 0:52:43.600
<v Speaker 2>So I just want to give you guys kudos for

0:52:43.640 --> 0:52:46.560
<v Speaker 2>being incredible. Please give a shout out to Justin, a

0:52:46.600 --> 0:52:48.680
<v Speaker 2>fan that learned about you guys from me, in case

0:52:49.520 --> 0:52:52.960
<v Speaker 2>he didn't hear it the first time. Hello Justin Potter. Wow,

0:52:53.880 --> 0:52:56.359
<v Speaker 2>thanks for giving me calm in times of adversity. I

0:52:56.400 --> 0:52:58.480
<v Speaker 2>know we are strangers, but we are not actually because

0:52:58.520 --> 0:53:00.720
<v Speaker 2>you have been with me during strugg in my life.

0:53:01.160 --> 0:53:03.400
<v Speaker 2>The credit you for getting me through the hardest times,

0:53:03.760 --> 0:53:05.800
<v Speaker 2>and I will be a lifelong fan of you both.

0:53:06.120 --> 0:53:07.040
<v Speaker 2>That is from Kate.

0:53:07.400 --> 0:53:09.640
<v Speaker 1>Thanks Kate. I'm really glad we got to play some

0:53:10.120 --> 0:53:14.080
<v Speaker 1>small part in getting you back on the road to happiness.

0:53:14.120 --> 0:53:15.520
<v Speaker 2>Yeah. I hope everything's going great for you.

0:53:15.640 --> 0:53:17.960
<v Speaker 1>Yeah for real. If you want to get in touch

0:53:18.000 --> 0:53:20.000
<v Speaker 1>with this like Kate did, just to say hi, or

0:53:20.000 --> 0:53:22.359
<v Speaker 1>to say thanks, or to say you guys really screwed up.

0:53:22.480 --> 0:53:24.600
<v Speaker 1>It's cool. You can go on to Stuff you Should

0:53:24.600 --> 0:53:27.200
<v Speaker 1>Know dot com and check out our social links, and

0:53:27.239 --> 0:53:29.440
<v Speaker 1>you can also send us a good old fashioned email

0:53:29.520 --> 0:53:38.720
<v Speaker 1>to stuff Podcast at iHeartRadio dot com.

0:53:35.000 --> 0:53:38.000
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0:53:38.480 --> 0:53:41.680
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